52 second warning, please find your seats Thank you. Called to order. Roll call, please. Vice President Konz, here. Director Wilburn, here. Director Yanez, here. Director Payne, Here. President Shandy, here. The Pledge of of Allegiance will be led by Director Wilburn. All those rise who are able, please remove hats and caps. Place your hand over your heart. Active duty service members and retirees may salute or stand at attention. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Mrs. Ruckman, are there any updates to the agenda? There are no updates to the agenda. Members of the Board are there any items you wish to move from the consent agenda? Are there any discussion items to be added to the agenda? May we have a motion to approve the Agenda? Moved. Second. Roll call, please. Vice
President Konz, aye. Director Wilburn, Aye. Director Yanez, aye. Director Payne, aye. President Shandy, aye. All right, today we have one new administrator to approve. Mr. Smart, would you please make the introduction? Yes, thank you. So I'm pleased to introduce Tricia Clough, who is being recommended as the interim principal at Ranch Creek Elementary School. Tricia is not here tonight, but I'm just gonna read a little bit about her and then I'll tell you what's next. After that, Tricia holds a Bachelors of Arts in Liberal Arts from Regis University, a Masters of
Arts in Curriculum and Instruction from University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. She began her career in D20 as a bus driver and then as a lunch registrar and and then she moved into a teaching position at Frontier Elementary School as a first grade teacher. There was an RTI coordinator and and a reading interventionist. And they moved on to Ranch Creek, where she was the RTIMTSS coordinator and then became the interim assistant principal. And she's currently serving as the assistant principal at Ranch Creek. So she's done a lot in our system and we're
pleased to recommend her tonight for the position of interim principal at Ranch Creek Elementary School. Now, even though she couldn't be here, I figured figured she'd want to say something, so I did a little chat ChatGPT and said let's see what she would have said if she was here. So I'll just read that to you. So good evening President Shandy, members of the Board of Education, Superintendent Haberer and guests. Thank you so much for the opportunity to serve as the interim principal of a Ranch Creek Elementary School for the 2025/2026 school year. I'm truly honored and excited to step into this role. I
want to sincerely thank Mr. Smart. Wow, I I did amazing, for his continued encouragement and guidance, it's been invaluable. And to Mrs. Evans, thank you for your outstanding leadership and steady support You both a strong, positive culture at Ranch Creek and I feel fortunate to follow in your footsteps, although I'm well aware those are big shoes to fill, I'm looking forward to working with our incredible staff, students, families to keep the momentum going. Ranch Creek is a special place and I can't wait to continue the work of
the growing curious minds, kind hearts, and maybe even surviving Spirit Days along the way. Thank you again for this opportunity. I'm grateful and ready to get started. So that's what she would have said. Has she been here? Was that a custom made bot that you asked for? I'm not going to get into how we got there, but I'm just appreciative of what she said. Awesome thank you. Thank you. Yes, welcome, Trish. All right, thank you. We need a motion to approve the consent agenda as posted. Moved. Second. Roll call, please. Vice President Konz, aye. Director Wilburn
Aye. Director Yanez, aye. Director Payne, aye. President Shandy, aye. All right next item for board consideration is whether to whether to adopt a resolution that initiates the development of a policy designed to uphold fairness and ensure student safety in athletic programs. This initiative will reflect on our commitment to student character development aligned with the values of our community, enhanced transparency for all stakeholders, and ensure compliance with applicable federal regulations
I would love to discuss Genuine discussion on how we got here. Everyone, I'm sure, has seen the draft resolution that is posted, so I think it would just be really valuable to kind of jump in and talk about how we got here and why we want to do this, and then we'll explore the resolution as is, if there's changes, and then take a vote as to whether or not we want to adopt and how we want to move forward with that. So is there anyone who would like
to jump in and talk about how we got to a draft resolution? Director Payne. Sure. So, I think recently, before I was even appointed to this board, we saw in the media district 49 come about with a policy for their girls in sports and I began gathering information about that and how that might impact our community our our families. I would also say that during the gathering of information I think a lot of things happen very quickly.
But then I was appointed to the board and suddenly also we were having this conversation For me, I'm born and raised here. I was born in Denver, lived here since I was one years old We are Colorado Springs, even though we have 17 17 districts in this 4th judicial district, many years ago we came together as 17 districts to work on prevention and safety, and that was before Columbine happened. That work created
recognition from researchers around the country on preventing violence in our schools. We didn't do that because we had a school shooting. We did that because it was the right thing to do. I just wanted to bring that forth because I felt pretty passionate that as a mom, as a parent and then as a board member as a girl that played sports in high school, not in college Unfortunately, I was just lucky that someone didn't bump me off the team. I didn't want our girls to go unprotected into the future and for us not to consider policies similar. To protect our athletes so that when they come back to school in
the fall or in the summer, actually to start trying out for sports, they had clear expectations of what the policies would be for this district because it's the only place we have care custody and control of and children, children need need to feel like if I'm in a tryout for a sport, what are the risks? Am I going to be embarrassed, I felt that way even trying out for this this board of directors at my age. I feel like a rookie, right now so. Pardon my stumbling words, but it takes courage to stand up for something, or to come out and try to
gather information and lead. And I want to make sure that our students feel like we've made policies that protect them and that they have clear expectations before they even try out for a sport. So I wanted to give a little bit of that background and just have really authentic conversation transparent here with with everyone. Thank you. Director Konz. I, the genesis for me, just to kind of sum up for Everybody, listening is that I think I have had more calls and and emails during my term on this board
about safety issues in locker rooms, bathrooms to a lesser extent, the actual athletics part of it participating. It's really important to our community and they have been clamoring for for the safety and protection of all of our students for a long time. I've kind of got little bits and pieces I just want to add to the conversation. So I'm just going to be going through my phone. I just want to point out some things. We don't allow phones. Oh, I know. I'm just, it's not a In the CHSAA
bylaws. 20 Excuse me 2860 game contracts. This is kind of a minor issue. But I just wanted to throw that out that should we pass the resolution and then the pending policies to change to be more specific for our students, I just suggest that we write each of our schools contracts so that it reflects that, so we're not forfeiting any games from other CHSAA schools. Because there's just for folks who haven't seen all these little details.
Contracts should be written, should be specific with respect to obligations they need to be entered in good faith we can get fined if we we that's the big part, we can start to get fined to a greater, greater extent if we're forfeiting games where our students don't feel safe playing against you know, if there's a stronger biological male identifying as a female I just really want to urge our administration to. We talked to CHSAA yesterday directly and I can fill you in and when you're done, I don't want
want to cut, cut you. But we have, we did talk to them about this particular thing. So excellent, OK. CHSAA Code of ethics #5 I think think this gives credence to where we're coming from. Avoid any practice or technique which would endanger the present or future welfare or safety of any participant. Seems pretty basic to me that That is exactly our purpose Partly for doing this. In the guidance for educators working with transgender and
gender non-conforming students, there's a few points that also bolster where our board is coming from the restroom and locker rooms rooms situation which is even a bigger deal for me like I said than the actual sports. A, The first point, nothing in this Act prohibits segregation of facilities on the basis of gender. And then it goes on to a lot of what I think our schools are organically doing already that I'd like to see continue. And this is for the safety
of every single one of our students use of single user restrooms or locker rooms including but not limited limited to staff facilities may be appropriate when all all factors are considered. Other alternative arrangement arrangements may include using a nearby restroom stall with a door PE instructor Et cetera. So those are practices that I think we can offer to all students for their safety, privacy. I just want to make sure we capture those as we go on with our resolution and
policies in the CHSAA bylaws 2850.3 where it talks about boys teams, separate teams, girls teams, Coed teams. It's written pretty darn well. It just is. It's not specific to. Gender assigned at birth. How biological birth Gender. I think the way it's written should be reflected in our policies. It's not in our resolution, our draft resolution, right
now for number 2, excuse me for 1 participation of athletics is just straight participation by gender of how that sport is designated. I think we do need to get a little bit more specific, whether we change this resolution tonight or in the future administrative policy to delineate all of those a couple issues there's you know, my our daughter had friends who like 3 or 4 girls that played hockey
on the boys team for Rampart. They were very good they did great. They didn't have an opportunity to play on a girls high school team. So that's one of the the situations we want to protect girls, if they are going to be Talented enough to make the team, a boys team. I want us to consider if girls are allowed. The safety issue comes more that boys on average are stronger could cause potential more harm to girls so biological boys who identify as girls playing on
a girls teams. So I do think we need to get specific about that and decide where we Think the line should be drawn? And I believe that's let me check my notes here besides my phone. I think I covered everything for now. Thank you. Let me reply to your penalty real fast. We did and I will say say on this topic, I don't know that I've done more research and had more conversations with different organizations and
people, and Superintendent Haberer has been a part of many of those conversations and Director Payne. Then we've had over this in trying to to find our path or my thought in our path. And so one of those conversations yesterday was with CHSAA, was with Michael Krueger. Did I say his name correctly? And it was a privilege to be able to have his time and be able to talk with him and ask questions and, Shane got to be a part of that conversation as well, and we specifically asked him about 2860.1 and 2860.12
about this penalty and he said yes, technically there is a policy. But we have never enforced it, and we don't enforce it. The school that's being canceled on is the one who enforces it, he said said once, maybe last year and correct me if I'm wrong, Superintendent Haberer, ever once last year a school enforced it. But but typically that's never enforced and they don't CHSAA doesn't even know when that happens
really, so it is not. So yes, there is a policy, but It does not to be, in actuality, the scary policy that it appears to be, but that is something that would would need to explored on. Future policies on how we handle when we play teams of other districts should this go forward that have transgendered as the coach decide does the the team decide, does like who makes that decision type thing. So I hope I answered that question for that was
Was there another question in there that. OK, very good. Anybody else want to have input? Director Payne I did appreciate. Thank you for setting up that meeting, I think that we wanted to be able to have that conversation with them and it was just the right thing to do amongst colleagues prior to us making a decision as a board. But I would say that as a mom, a female and male, 1 male athlete. They really like to compete and I think we want to empower our student athletes to be able to make those decisions if
it comes down to do we forfeit or do we not or how do we proceed? It doesn't mean that they have to or that's blanketed in our policy. I would I would say I wouldn't want that to be in there. I would want that to be something that the coaches and the team just to reiterate that decide. So that was part of that conversation as far as some of the bylaws within CHSAA I just wanted to provide a little bit of clarity on that, if that's all Right? Please. So one of the the things in the bylaws for CHSAA is 1, they have an equity
code in their bylaws that says the Colorado high school activities Activities Association Is committing to ensuring that all students have equal access and opportunities to participate in activities in athletics under the Title 9 Education Amendment Member Schools schools shall ensure that all students have equal access. Sorry I lost and opportunities to participate in activities and athletics without unlawful discrimination based on disability, race, creed, color, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, age, national origin, or ancestry.
CHSAA recognizes the right of transgender students athletes to participate in interscholastic activities free from unlawful discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identification to ensure appropriate gender assignment for purposes of athletic eligibility. A A transgender student athlete's home school will meet with the student to determine the gender assignment for the prospective student athlete. The CHSAA will review athletic eligibility decisions based on gender assignment or transgender student athletes in accordance with its approved
Policies and appeals procedures. There are other bylaw 2830 the philosophy of collective skills 2030.1 says the association does not consider the individual skills of the athlete, but considers the collective skills of female athletes with the collective skills of male athletes. To say girls as a class possess equal skills with boys as a class and and athletic contests would be untrue, as we heard the other night at at public comment, to decide otherwise would permit male athletes who who do not possess individual skills sufficient to participate in.
Contests but whose skills are superior to those of girls to to compete in events restricted to female athletes thus creating an inequity of skills within a class and ultimately severely limiting participation of female athletes this would destroy the intent of the Association to promote and encourage the growth of female involvement in athletic programs. I hate to read that to you. We can make that available. It's in the bylaws. But I think that those two things in himself are say 2 very different things. And that's part of the reason that we're here today having this
discussion on what does it mean for us to have a policy for our girls that participate in athletics Thank you. Director Yanez, I think you guys know I'm playing a real nasty game of catch up so and welcome back so sorry welcome back congratulations so you're you're exciting literally didn't have Internet pretty much Wednesday to Sunday. So I have, you know, read through all of my documents. Thank you for this packet Superintendent Heberer. This is very helpful. I just am
kind of playing a little catch up here so. Not that I didn't know that this is a conversation to be had, but. I'm less familiar with the CHSAA rules I have not dug deep into those Was I to understand is Mr. Alexander gonna present? There is gonna be a presentation. OK, next we're just kinda talking about the why and how we got it and the new presentation, and then we'll do OK. Great, 'cause I'm less familiar with those roles. And I know that's something you're very I just kinda wanted to set the stage on why why we're here and how we got here. So wonderful. Yeah.
I'm back. OK, All right. Director Wilburn. I mean the broader discussion that's being had that we're having as as a society is Are you what you identify as? So if I identify as a male, am I therefore a male? And I don't think we're litigating that here tonight. I don't think we should litigate that here tonight. That's much broader than this Board of Education. What we're focusing on and what we're too focused on are two things. Fairness and safety. I like to think that the safety component is relatively self-evident.
There have been all, there's been injuries. I mean, we've all seen these stories. No matter where you stand, you can't deny these things happen. The issue of fairness. So I want to read District 11 in the new, the new title code that they've released in their policy manual, the very first sentence the board recognizes that there are inherent biological differences between between males and females. And that's simply a matter of fact. I'll arm wrestle almost any girl in here, most of you'll beat me, but
a couple I could do OK against. It's a matter of fairness and a matter of safety, so the most recent situation to make national headlines was the Minnesota girls softball tournament. I think most of us familiar, but for those who aren't, this is very telling. This kind of wraps it up, the Champlain Park Rebels, our state champions. I believe this is from the Minnesota Star Tribune. This is a week ago, a week and a half ago, two weeks ago. The Champlain Park Rebels are state champions. The number 2 seeded rebels shut
out number four Bloomington Jefferson, 6, to nothing in the class Double quadruple a Minnesota high school girls softball championship game Junior pitcher Marissa Rothenberger, a trans trans identifying male athlete, took the mound for Champlain Park and never gave it up. Rothlenberger threw a complete game shutout to secure the title. The The performance kept off a dominant. In which Rothenberger pitched all
21 innings across all three games Those 21 innings do not include the 14 shutout innings Rothenberger pitched in the sectional finals to help Champlain Park reach the state tournament Champlain Park's other pitcher, Ava Abrahamson, was listed as a designated player throughout the tournament but never entered a game. To whom is that fair? Is that fair to the competing teams that got shut out and couldn't even get any wood on the ball is
Is that fair to the other pitcher on the roster? Who never even got on the field? I mean, if that number 2 pitcher and I I don't know this is a fact or not, but let's assume for the sake of conversation the number two picture is in the running running in the conversation for a collegiate scholarship. To play softball at the next level, any scout that came to that tournament to watch her perform never got to see that. And that poor young child may have Lost or sacrificed a potential of a
partially paid for education. A fully paid for education? We'll never know, never got on the field. My daughter was a high performing and most of us were I'm like like Susan. My daughter was high performing, too. She was a runner and a jumper. I know your kids were. The year my daughter's last year at the state track meet, she's a high jumper. The girl that won state, I believe, jumped 5 foot 7. The starting the minimum bar for the boys was 6 foot 1, so no girl would have even qualified to jump against the boys, let alone one. It it's simply not fair to our female athletes to
force them into a into competitive situation where they cannot win and I don't want to to do that to girls. So that's kind of the the angle from which I view and approach this Thank you. I know for me, I just, I felt the duty to protect our girls in sports and I I felt that duty to happen before fall sports started. That it was Important enough for us to have this special meeting so that
girls going into the fall sports are protected They have time to plan as such. I know captain's practices are already going on and things like that and those aren't school sanctioned events, but tryouts are and I felt it was of the utmost importance that we. Can give that Peace of mind to everyone involved. That no, this is where our board stands and this is what we're going to do to clarify how our sports
teams are going to be made up and that's part part of why I felt the push to no, we need to do this now because people need to know their planning their planning where they're going to school they're planning on what sports they're going to play. They're, you know, all of those things And so, you know, if anything, I think we're behind the ball but that's kind of the why and I said that many times. So Superintendent Haberer, our girl our fall girls deserve to be protected our Our fall girls deserve to be protected. And so I
appreciate everyone being able to be here tonight So I think that kind of sums up the why and why we're here. Director Payne. May I add just a couple things? I do think that your point on the Champlain team. That girls did miss out on opportunities there, but I also think about the staff in this district that without a clear policy and direction from top leadership of how we're going to proceed puts it it into a position of each coach, each athletic
director for every school determining how they handled this which allows for us to err on the side of inconsistency and And it is really important whenever we're doing something to this extent that we do it with consistency and that we we take it at the leadership level. Direct what that policy looks like so that there is clarity for at least Academy District 20 So I just wanted to add that I think that's really important also to establish a culture and climate of
what it looks like here in Academy District 20 moving forward and that safety and prevention is a priority Thank you. All right. We would love to have your presentation now Thank you so much. President Shandy, could I just add 1 clarifying for anyone listening? I just want to remind folks who don't know that D20 has policy governance model which is different than both D D11 and D49. Is that correct? It is, yes
We have modified it last board, so just if anyone's wondering why we are not drafting a policy, a board policy, it just doesn't quite align align with how we're structured. So the resolution is our first step to direct the Superintendent to change administrative policy I just want to clarify for folks who are wondering why we're not just doing a policy right off the bat. Oh, I'm sorry. There we go. OK, if OK, I would just like to respond to a couple points you made just so that you have all the information
Nicole made a great point about we should protect all kids when we're considering locker room assignment and And one, one example that spoke to me in this area was we had a autistic student that was involved in Unified Sports that just was overwhelmed by the crowd in the locker room and we felt it was appropriate to find a safer space for that student. So it's not just. Category of students it's all students deserve the opportunity to be protected the second
one is this confuses even at veteran athletic directors, but the the sport assignments like Nicole you were pointing out football's not not considered boys football in the state of Colorado. It's considered it doesn't call it Coed football, but girls can play football because it's not called boys football so. Girls could play football with this resolution. Girls could play ice hockey because ice hockey's considered a Coed sport in the state of Colorado and some of our a DS didn't even realize that 'cause it's never been a factor
but those sports are considered that unless it it says boys basketball, girls basketball, there's a distinction girls could try out for that sport. There are some some limitations with boys being able to try out for girls sports. So boys couldn't play softball, but girls could play baseball? So it's a little complicated, but I just wanted you to understand that we wouldn't be limiting girls to trying out for football or ice hockey. It's hard for them because ice hockey is dominated by male participants. But they can't. We do have
participants that make the team and do quite well, but it's hard other other teams. Oh, this was a point Susan made about the forfeits. I just want you to understand the impact of a forfeit if the board would ever go down that road of involving Forfeits or having forfeits a single forfeit can impact a school's s RPI. It may not be penalized by CHSAA in the sense that they put you on probation. They could, but
they I don't think they ever have but an an RPI loss for a team at the wrong time to the wrong opponent, let's say 0 win opponent and we forfeit to them could an example could be that could keep a Pine Creek football out of the playoffs if it was the wrong loss at the wrong time. So there are bigger. Impacts of that we just have to process and the equity clause that somebody mentioned that was good that you quoted, that almost comes straight from the CADA material and the state statute of CHSAA puts it in there to
be covered in that aspect and I apologize in in advance for this slide show 'cause it really just focuses on the broader how we protect students in all areas because I I just wanted you to see that we've taken over the last two years since since you've approved the Office of District Athletics and Activities. Where we've taken this area of student safety leads the state of Colorado in many areas that some schools in the state of Colorado are modeling what we're doing and there's been quite a bit of changes over time. So I just wanted you to see that
this just kind of says where do we draw, how do ADs, how do coaches make decisions and we we tell coaches all the time if you lean into into district policy, you're going to be protected, you're going to protect kids and you're going to protect yourselves And the acts that you do it as far as your coaching assignment federal and state statute guidance from legal If we ever have questions I I don't be afraid to ask questions because we have resources to take them to. One thing you'll see on the next slide is how old I am I've been involved in athletics for a very long
time and I've have contacts all over the country so when we when we struggle with something, I can reach out to a Mike Kroger or or somebody across the country that has experienced or went through it before and. I can draw that N for our coaches and athletic director so that we don't make mistakes. So we really the part we're really working on, not only just physical safety, but mental safety as well. We want every every participant to feel valued, not just a part of a team, but whether you play every minute or you don't play at
all, that you're a valued member of that team. So that's really important important to us. This is a younger picture of myself. I still use it. I'll still use it when I'm 70, but I kind of like that. This just says I'm really have a lot of experience with different things and so I don't have all the answers, but I really can start a lot of quality collaborative discussions with community members, with coaches, with schools. One thing that I'm really proud of is I've LED strategic planning processes for districts across the country of just saying, what are we
aiming for with all these programs? What is our end game And so we've started to take that to District 20 and you'll see a little bit of as we go through here. This is for people that have really good vision, but it's just kind of a highlight. We do a lot of things, we meet regularly with athletic directors, activities directors certified athletic trainers. We have regular meetings middle school athletic directors. We hold the symposium we started a year ago and what we have there is speakers from across the state and country actually a
A Better Way Athletics sent two of their top speakers to talk to our coaches about OK, two of the most litigated areas. Districts are the back of school buses and unsupervised locker rooms. Why do we still have that going on? So we had speakers that specialize in that. Come talk to our coaches saying you can, we'll forgive you for a loss we won't forgive you for for something happening on the back of the bus that's inappropriate. So we took a stand on that. And our symposium this year is
grown. We have the opening Becky and her staff. One area that coaches tend to struggle in sometimes if sometimes if there's issues. Is financial practices a coach forgetting I can't accept cash or how to operate a booster club And so our opening session is every coach that attends the symposium can't say they don't know. Now they have that and it's to protect them because we don't we don't want to bring a coach and think about letting that coach go because they make a mistake that they should have avoided. So information
information is good. And I don't need to read all these things, but we're doing a lot of great things. The student survey, one I'm really proud of. Next fall we did a voluntary survey, this year, next fall we want 100% participation of every student that participates in a CHASA activity to complete complete a survey. It's about a 24 question survey that we want 100% participation. So before that sport's over or before that activity's over, every student will complete it as a part of their checkout process 'cause we want to know how are we doing do
Do you feel valued? Do you feel more connected to your school because you're involved in this? Do are we doing those things well And we're gonna give schools results in two two different ways. We're going to say, how does your school do versus other schools in the district? How do you do versus the district average are there there programs that struggle, maybe in communication some struggle and value? We want to set goals that are meaningful in in that data and student voice is important and we want to know what they thought about this participation couple
other things I'm really also proud of we're the the only school in the state that I know of that every single athletic trainer has a Kestrel bulb Thermometer. So on heat days I spent 10 years in the Midwest. Like when it's hot there, you sweat in your office, it's hot, but wanted to be able to say to parents on hot days in Colorado, is it safe for kids should we shorten practice and now we have data to show that so and what we And what we realized is we have band students marching in parking
lots. That temperature is different than natural grass field. The temperature on a synthetic turf field can be 15 To 20° hotter than a grass field a natural grass field. So we take measurements across the district on every surface before we allow practice on a given day Most times in Colorado, I'm thankful we can say, you know what should go shorter today or instead of wearing full pads in football, maybe you just wear your T-shirts and shorts and do plays or something so we
we try to protect kids in every aspect. The other one that I think was a proud and thanks to Becky for this, We came to Becky last year with a need. We said we have about 200 football helmets at the middle school level that should not be in service. They're too old that we have, we cannot be using those helmets and Becky helped schools fund that and now we don't have one football helmet in the system that is older than 10 years years. That's marvelous and we couldn't have done that without Becky's support and Jinger’s support. It just doesn't happen without
that financial commitment, and that's a big chunk. We ended up destroying 200 football helmets because in order to dispose of them, you can't just throw them in the dumpster. Or somebody could get a hold of them. So we cut up and smashed a lot of football on us that was kind of fun. But that's just kind of a highlight of what we do These are two examples that I think have been important specific examples, overnight travel risk management really LED this, but just some of the things we're doing is that we now approve trips in the district based
on the risk level for a trip and there's three levels, whether it's a day trip and there's really like you're going you're gonna go to the zoo and there's no loose animals. It's pretty pretty innocuous. And you're gonna get back by 3:00. The time school's out versus I'm taking that same group to a ropes course, little bit higher risk and then if you have have overnight stay, there's a whole different level of risk. So what the district athletic and activities office does is it athletic team ever spends the night anywhere we
anywhere we evaluate OK, what's your supervision plan? How many adults for how many students are you sharing beds are Are you not sharing beds? What's going on in this trip? And the sharing beds policy that we added a layer there too is now if they want an exemption from the policy that says they will not share beds, they have to have the principal go to their PSSG and say what is the extenuating circumstance and there there are some of those DECA national Conference is a
a perfect example. DECA is one large hotel complex and when you say these amount of kids are coming to the the conference because they qualified, they specified. This is how many rooms you get. You cannot stay off campus. This is so you have to share beds at the DECA national conference you have have to you can't say, well, we're going to pick up our own hotel and we're going to stay over here. They don't allow you to do that you You have to stay at the National Conference Hotel Sometimes there's an emergency. We're over on Steamboat Springs
and we can't get home because of really bad snowstorm that would would be an exemption. Anytime there's an exemption approved the coach or or sponsor in charge has to have apparent waiver sign and parents have to be be informed. This is going to occur on this trip their students will be sharing sharing beds if a parent objects again, parent voice voice we listen to every single time if a parent objects the coach and the sponsors are directed, You have to resolve that Can you find a rollaway? Can you get a cot in the room Can you usually have an odd number of students? Can you get
one more hotel room and split up that student that objects to sharing a bed or their parent objects so we have conversations around around safety and supervision all the time. Errors, but those are just two specific examples. The transgender participation, I shared that with you previously but I just wanted you to see what CHSAA are right now has in their bylaws as far as transgender participation. Thank you for having the conversation with Mike Kroger because I think that's important It's just good insight for the board to have and I also included the additional guidance that CHSAA produces 2
ADs of how to make decisions in this area. And the process we would follow currently is that we would follow CHSAA bylaws and state statute as they're written if the board makes the decision to go with this resolution. The nice part about how we operate athletics and activities in the district we can make make that change within days because of the communication channels we have in place. And we'll get that out as soon as that's decided if that's what the board chooses to do. And I just point out that last bullet is just the
autism example of if a student for any reason, let's say let's say a student was really self conscious that maybe the student just felt like I don't want to change in front of other, we would make the accommodation for that student too. Any student that feels uncomfortable will do our best. We have spaces as a basketball official that goes around and refs all over Colorado sometimes I'm jammed in a closet to change too. They find spaces for me so. Any questions I can answer for you of all of that, let me see if. Yeah, that's the last slide. I just
wanted you to have context of all the safety elements we do. I'm sorry I took so long. Fine, I will say from the conversation with Mr Krueger yesterday to your forfeit point about the points he he said that is true, but he said their bigger worry is when teams play that point system and you actually gain points for forfeiting, so it goes. It does go both ways for sure, for sure sure. Anyone else have? Questions for Mr. Alexander?
Director Yanez. President Shandy. OK, Mr Alexander, you have obviously have just a huge depth of experience and there's a couple places where I've heard well well there's this policy, but CHSAA doesn't exactly enforce it and anytime anytime I hear something like that, I think either we've got too many policies or that board's got some work to do to update you know, superfluous or antiquated policies And if they're looking for a volunteer on their board of directors, I nominate you, To help with that work.
But that that's actually more of a comment in that we talked about 2860.1 and 2 where That penalty is not enforced. The school that's cancelled on can enforce, but doesn't always. I want that in writing 2860.12 got it. And then the forfeit piece right where CHSAA could put you on on probation, but probably won't. I think we're at that point where they're going to need to tighten some of that up, right? What's the word on the street on some of that? I think
CHSAA as an organization itself is seeking clarity. They want this to be resolved so that they can address some of these things and I think think Mike Rigger has said it to me two or three times. He's I think he's in his second or third year. I can't write third He still is finding inconsistencies in the bylaws that they're addressing in every area. So I hope they really dig in like you said. And we do have ads on several sport. Is it the state level? I'm on a committee and we're
trying to support the commissioner because what you want is clarity so that anybody can go to this bylaw manual and know what is expected and if there's changes made at our level, we'll advocate at the state for them to consider making changes here. But and we've made we've made some advocacy in different areas I just wanted to be aware of this, Isaki, we think think it's fundamentally unfair that girls have to beat out boys. To play ice hockey in the state of Colorado So we pushed the commissioner all the time saying why don't we
sanction girls like ice hockey and one there's not a lot of ice time available, but still girls deserve the right to have full teams of girls playing each each other. And so we're pushing all the time to have more activities that girls can have that spot like the like the boys. Director, And as I can answer that question for you having talked to them The bottom line, if you summize our hour plus Conversation was this is a local decision. His words, Mr. Kruger's words. This is a local decision and we
want to be told what to do. That their resolution will be found in the judicial system system they have. Those were his words. That they are relying on the court to tell them what Plans to make this decision they want the courts to tell them what to do and in the meantime districts, it's a local decision that that's from Mr. Krueger's mouth and Superintendent Haberer can confirm that and Director Payne can confirm that he said that. It does come down to resolute this resolution as
well. It is it is both discussions but yes. So any other thoughts? Director Payne. Just along those same lines you know, I wanted to they he they definitely did say this because. I did want to back up a little bit. I was not part of this, but I did learn through this process of gathering information and I think we've really dug in to gather everything we could possibly find on this. The there was a letter that was sent from this community, but I would say it's
the expanded community of Colorado Springs that included members of our board and I think it was all board members as individuals and other boards from other districts. To CHSAA prior to any of this happening and I was just wondering if one of you that signed that letter which was all of you could explain what the response was because that in itself was an opportunity in a very courteous way to apprise CHSAA of
the conflictual laws on the state and federal levels. I didn't know if anyone wanted to bring up how they responded and then I have one more point if possible. I can give you that response, so CHSAA basically summation responded that they are committed to gathering insights and clarification, which he did say yesterday that they I think this is important to resolution to as well as the next decision item that that they had actually started seeking clarification on a couple of points in their bylaws from different from the
Attorney General's office I think it was. And it had to do with some areas where they felt like they had overreached. But neither of those and I'd specifically asked the question, had to do with transgender It had to do with Requiring parental consent, I think it was, and requiring that districts report the things to CHSAA. So neither one of the things that they had started looking at modifying had anything to do
with clarifying boys and girls sports or vice versa. So that was point number one. point #2 was that they stated that the resolution of Will likely come to the state and federal judiciary and that CHSAA will support their members by remaining informed and providing updates So basically they say we're not going to make any changes. We want the court to tell us what to do, and Mr. Krueger reiterated that yesterday. So please go ahead, Director Payne. So I also, Sir, I also wanted to just say thank you for the slides
that you presented, but also like the slides on safety is a real, I really like that safety was considered. Because heat exhaustion and that for athletes and the differences in temperature depending on the field and all of those things that weigh in is so important in our decision making and how we train and how we protect our students. To Becky Allan, thank you for getting them the helmets, because we have to make sure that the budget has sustainable dollars to make sure that we can maintain prevention and safety as a district. Same thing we have to do with car seats. Car seats have to be
destroyed at a certain point or after a car accident, so, I wanted to say thank you for that my question on your your slide about safety, it seemed more focused on what and I wanted to go into your comments because I appreciated them about private spaces, overnight trips with sports, bathrooms, lockers, showers. Do you, as athletic directors have concern with with how you consistently manage that when there's someone that wants to use that does identify as a different gender? I would have to ask, I have not been made
aware of any concerns they've had in that area that they usually meet with the family and student and since I've been in the district we've only had two students wish to to participate as a transgender student. OK, let me clarify a little bit. So when we even look at the headlines around the country, we don't have to have something bad happen here. But when we look at instances and I can think of different situations. That have been in the headlines. But one of the things that we do have to be mindful of and I was just just curious. This might be a little off topic, but we have the Claire
Davis act in Colorado. I don't know if athletic if you're familiar with that act about foreseeable events, let Let me just say a few words to that because that was something that happened after the Arapaho school shooting and that changed the level of governmental immunity for schools. Specific to and, I and I wrote this down to bring up later, but I think it's a perfect thing. If we fail to exercise reasonable care to protect all students, faculty and staff from reasonably foreseeable acts of violence that occur at a school or a school
sponsored activity, that's where we would lose governmental immunity. And then there is very specific penalties laid out of financial cost paid by a district, but that's not just for school shootings, That's in first degree assaults or a sexual assault that might happen in a place that could be deemed unsafe. Bathrooms, locker rooms or showers. So I just wanted to put that mindfully in that I feel like one of the things we need to do when we're talking about safety and prevention and training
is just spark that conversation with you. That might be something our athletic directors need to have that conversation about. So thank you for your presentation today and thank you for your career and for being one of the valued members of this team at Academy District 20. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Alexander. Superintendent Haberer, do you have anything you would like to walk us through or add to this discussion? I just wanted to make you aware I what I remember too, from our conversation with Mr. Krueger is that he also acknowledged that the executive orders from the
president is also like conflicting directly with the Colorado Anti-discrimination Act right, which is also something that was pointed out in some of of the legal advice that we received and And I think my impression when he said he wanted clarity is he's also feeling that clash right between what? The state of Colorado is saying that we need to follow in their Colorado anti-discrimination Act as state law and then the executive orders
and we also know as was pointed out in the lawsuit that in the the state of Maine and then Tumwater, WA. That there was a potential loss of funding. From the federal government, because they were allowing maybe a transgender. Student who was assigned at birth as a male who wanted to play on a female sport So I think that there's also a tension of well, if we do a policy like we're
suggesting in the resolution, it would go against what the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, how it's being defined. Like CHSAA and other groups, although I know in the lawsuit it's being defined differently. And just to be aware of that and that that's also part of the tension that I think is being felt by CHSAA and why they're wanting to have that clarity as well, because we've got the funding piece right from there, but we also have our state law and that's part of the detention. So in our
packet I just put together and just thank you to Mr. Alexander, thank you for sending me all those Everything that's in here was also sent virtually. But I thought, I don't know, I'm still old school. I try not to kill too many trees, but it's nice to have it in handy right in front of us. So everything pretty much that was referred to as in here the The resolution is on top and I do have a a question for Mr. Alexander about that. On #1 in the resolution it says participation
student shall be eligible to participate in interscholastic or extracurricular. Athletic programs designated for their biological gender as assigned at birth with that statement preclude the ability for girls to participate in hockey or football, or would it not? Would that be something that you would recommend that we change? Thank you. question my understanding in visiting with Mr, Krueger would not that's what I impact them because.
Again, it's considered a Coed sport, OK. So then in the packet I have, just some examples. So if you were to pass the resolution. We would then and according to El 2.11 which we put up which will be on our consent agenda next time. We would then, if this resolution gets passed, we would be looking at these two policies as an example to say what would our policy look like as well as. Definitely advice Mr. Knight and Mr. Anderson would would be the ones primarily to look at that and start putting that together
along with our legal team and I will be helping out with that as well But just wanted to give you guys those examples. We do have this CHSAA Bylaw 2853. I did ask Mr. Krueger about about number C, where it says girls teams. Whenever the school provides only a team or teams for girls in a particular sport, boys shall not be permitted to qualify. For the girls team in that sport now when I read read that, I thought, well then what's the lawsuit about? Because they're saying, all right, that agree with us but Mr. Alexander I
think you designated that the intent behind that is really that if a student who is assigned at birth as a birth as a male I has a gender identity later as a female and wants to play on a female sport, that this would allow for that. In spite of what the wording says. When I brought that up with Mr. Krueger yesterday, A couple of times I thought I heard him say, yeah, well, there's some language we need to clean up and that was one of them that
that just again around that importance of clarity, which I appreciated. The other thing I wanted to point out is a transgender policy CHSAA on the second page under procedures. I did ask Mr Krueger about this too, and it was unclear as to whether or not. This was a requirement even though it says it's required. Sentence #2 and a procedure. The student and our parent guardian must notify the school in writing that the student has a a consistent gender identity different than the student's gender assigned at birth and listed the sanction events
in which the student would like to participate so the the word must there I thought was interesting I did ask him if that would be a requirement and what I thought I heard him say is that would was example of some of the language that they are wanting to go back and look at because many these guidelines were set much earlier than our present time, but I think from their perspective what I gathered and my understanding is that with the lawsuit they really aren't able to go in and change a lot of language, right
now because everything's kind of on hold for them. But I did want to point that piece out as well. And then I did this piece here Here is just guidance for educators working with transgender and gender non confirming students. Basically several organizations put that together to help support our athletes. And then the last one that I think pertains to this conversation and also could pertain to the following conversation around lawsuits is the that the lawsuit is this game contract and that's where
There was a fine. And where Mr. Krueger said that we oh, we don't usually that they don't really enforce it, it'd be more between the schools, but I would agree that we definitely want some clarity and some assurance around that if we were to continue to move forward the resolution and or the lawsuit and then the field trips, that's just information that Mr. Anderson went over. So I was gonna share it with the packet. Thank you. Appreciate that.
Director Konz, I think you have some things you want to share. And I'm not sure, President Shandy, if you are wanting to wrap this up, but before we make any motion, I just want to get into the real nitty gritties. So if there's any edits to this draft before we pass it, that Mrs. Ruckman can make those changes, so where I stand overall, I think this draft is succinct and pretty right on, But what I would like to see different, what I propose, is for
for #1. Participation in athletics that we expand that even in the resolution to give Superintendent Haberer some more guidance to almost match the bylaws from CHSAA But like you just pointed out it, it's intending to be open for transgender students, and so I'd like to use these the bylaw 2850-3. In #1 participation I'd like to clearly state Boys team Separate teams Girls teams Co-ed team Go
Go ahead. Yeah. So I will let you know that originally we had it like that and I did run it by our legal team and they suggested that. For many reasons and Tonya's not able to be here tonight. She specifically said it was important to change it to athletic athletic programs designated for their biological gender as assigned by birth. And there were legal reasons for that. So I would say if we wanted to change that, I would I would like to have
her share that legal advice before we just say we're going to change it because there was a reason for that and we had to do with, I'm gonna not get it exactly correct, but there was more of a risk I think by saying girls and boys as opposed to just staying with athletic programs designated for their biological gender at birth. So do you know if that advice was was pertaining to the resolution or both the resolution And yeah, it was, it was right to the resolution
And so Mr. Alexander, do you mind coming to the mic again for for me, please? Could you look at that resolution and look at what CHSAA has and just from your point of view, do you feel like what's in the resolution would pretty much cover or not what CHSAA has in their resolution in the intent? While he's looking that over, Yeah, please. Director Wilburn it It could be, Well, Mr Alexander's looking that up. It could be Vice President Konz, and I don't know this because I didn't talk to Tonya about it specifically that that the problem is teams as opposed to athletic competition, because not all
all athletic competition is team based. So we're a little bit limiting if we're talking about teams wrestling, swimming, diving. It has more to do with naming girls and boys as opposed to saying programs designated for their biologic gender at birth. I would say #1 as it's written is what I've seen in districts that have adopted it. And then I think there's room in #3 for what you're asking that maybe when the policy comes out that it's listed teams more specific in the
policy versus the resolution. In my opinion, how does the rest of the board feel about #1 then as part of a resolution as is? I'm good with it, OK yeah, I just so. I think the advice is for Superintendent Haberer from us to consider with your legal team if and can we specifically layout in the policy in in the policy correct and as Superintendent Haberer said,
having just adopted the new the new policy we will be a bigger part of creating administrative policy, so we will have feedback. We will have a chance to OK influence that I just just wanna make sure yes. And it's all a good faith effort like I'm sure none of us wanna get detailed in A 5-page long resolution. So I'm sure you're just hearing all the points to consider as if we vote this resolution as you go forward or the policy as well, correct
saying correct, Correct. OK. So that was that's fine leaving #1 as is. I would strongly like to add perhaps to #2 that's just locker room and facilities. I would like to consider adding lodging overnight accommodation too. I don't know if facilities encompasses that and how it could even be related to High Trails as well as as athletic competitions. Yeah, that's a good point. Do you have a something
you would wanna weigh in on that Ron? Do you feel like our policies already already say that in the overnight guidelines that we have? I personally, again, this is just my opinion. I would consider adding a third like 1,2, and then a lodging component if that's a concern that you specifically address lodging and overnight that you put that down as #3 and then you have #4 be the administrative implementation. I think it should be separate than the locker rooms because what's a facility mean? and I think
think that would address that more clearly. So Vice President Konz, I just wanted to say I I think it's better to clarify that and to lay it out because Especially when it's overnight stays or lodging or like we have talked about in most of these meetings, High Trails, DECA travel with teams of any any theater, whatever it might be, I think I like the input to provide a 3 that includes lodging. So what is the wording lodging and overnight? What do you want me to say in there? I don't
know what to say, just a second. So you I'll just start the conversation so you could say access to overnight lodging. Access to overnight lodging shall be limited to individuals over their biological gender assigned at birth. This policy is basically copy #2 and just take out locker rooms and facilities and put in lodging. Mr. Alexander, does that cover hotel rooms, lodging, or do you want me to say hotel rooms? I think I would say access to overnight lodging room assignments, because when you say
say we're not gonna keep them from staying at a yeah lodging facility, but. OK, so access to overnight lodging room lodging room assignments, room assignments. Thank you. Overnight shall be limited to right and then the rest of the party. Yep, perfect. Yeah, but if there's things Is that good? OK. And then we'll move #3 to #4, Mrs. Ruckman. OK. And sorry, that's number four. Mrs. Ruckman when you are done, will you let us know how that reads, please? I don't know if you yes please actively did
did anything yet. So it doesn't have to be right this minute, but before we vote, will you kindly let us read or Director Payne did you have something to add? The thing that I had to add, I mean, I just wanted for consideration since we're having this authentic transparent communication is For consideration under the whereas which is the the why we could consider whereas allowing biological males to participate in in female sports may limit the opportunities for girls to compete comma, earn scholarships comma and remain physically safe thereby
thereby violating the intent and purpose of Title 9. To me, that's one of the whys in the very beginning that we talked about this. However, if it's your understanding, Superintendent Haberer or President Shandy or Vice President, Director, anybody that was there with the meeting that we we should not directly say the why includes A biological sex reason. Is there a reason for that? Superintendent Haberer? What I remember from my conversation with our legal counsel was
I don't know without I mean you read the statement we could put it in and I mean It without having her here, I don't know what the advice would be on that. I think the main thing was just calling out specific girl sports. Are girls and boys as opposed to assigned by birth? But I think if it if that part's in the whereas is that 'cause that's what you're saying? Whereas it was a why I don't I I obviously can't get the legal advice on that, but I don't know if that would make a difference if it's in the whereas as
opposed to let it be resolved. I don't know. So you would have that added to the last whereas I would do it to be above. Let's see here. I would be after the 4th whereas A whereas and it's just for the board clarity. A whereas is just the the why. So I think that's the one thing that was pretty clear in our conversation with legal, but to be there is that's one of the whys, but I could read it again if that would be helpful whereas allowing
allowing biological males to participate in female sports may limit opportunities for girls to compete. Earn scholarships and remain physically safe. Thereby violating the intent and purpose of Title 9. To me, that's very specific of one of the whys of what title 9 States and if I could just take a minute to clarify that if it's OK I've got. So when the instance you're here at the mics, I see our gentleman here at the mics. Right, directly after the executive order at
Ruled on sports and collegiate sports is that that something that you're aware of that coach? Because I know you were AUNC coach, correct? Do you want to relay what they decided? My understanding is that they passed a similar resolution that they recognized that that at birth as participation that they wanted, they wanted to model it after President Trump's executive order. So the reason I wanted to thank you for sharing that was a shorter summary that I was about to give. So thank you
for that. But I think that's important that in collegiate sports, it took them one day to make the decision to modify their policies and it I won't I just was thinking that the other thing that happened was the federal government created what are called sit teams and those are investigative teams to investigate anyone that violates Title 9 around the country. So that includes organizations like CHSAA in California, Minnesota, Maine, and they are actively pursuing anyone that doesn't have a policy
to protect their girls in sports pertaining to Title 9 and And for me, just with I just felt like that was an important why we need to do this as a district for for all our leadership, for our staff, for our students boots on the ground to understand the directives here at the leadership level. Superintendent Haberer, I was just wondering, Director Payne, if without that directly in front of me does that mirror what the executive order said as well, what you just read? Because I've heard that that's
something that's important when you put a resolution together. Related to this topic is to, you know. Look at the executive order to help you with the wording on it. Yeah, let me look at that. I have it right here in my. Information. So, Superintendent Haberer, are you asking the direct executive order? Are you asking for the direct wording for the NCAA? Sorry. My understanding is that in putting the resolutions together like this, the language it may be better for the language to be
somewhat closer to what the executive order had to say. That's just something that I've heard and just wanted to put that out there. OK, I'm just gonna read this for you what I have have and this is directly out of The title. The new SIT teams. The title 9. The United States Department of Education, The Department of Justice announced the Title 9 special Investigations team, which is called the SIT team to ensure timely, consistent resolutions to protect students, especially female athletes
from the effects of gender ideology and school programs and activities Title 9 sit will streamline Title 9 investigations by by creating a specialized team of investigators across the US Department of Ed and DOJ offices. They will apply a rapid resolution investigation process to the increased volume of Title 9 cases and also enable them to work together. To conduct investigations that are fully prepared for ultimate DOJ enforcement, Secretary of Education Linda McMahon today's establishment of
title 9 sit teams benefits women and girls in in sports across this nation who have been subject to discrimination and indignity in their educational activities it It goes on with the Office of Civil Rights, I think that what you're wanting me to do is quickly pull the very specifics of the executive order. Is that correct? I'm just saying that. We certainly have the right as a board to you have the right as a board to put what you think is important. The It just may be good to know what's in the executive order and
see how that. Is the same or might be different than what's in there. And I'm sorry, while she's looking, I think Director Wilburn has something to say. I think we could get into a paralysis of analysis 'cause there's so much going on with executive order and all this other stuff. Director Payne, I think I like your whereas addition Would you read it again a little more slowly and give us permission to interrupt you at any point? Absolutely. Whereas comma allowing biological males to participate in female
sports may limit opportunities for girls to compete. Comma earned scholarships and remain physically safe comma thereby violating the intent and purpose of title 9 and then sub colon and then we would go to the next where whereas. Give me the give me the first half of that one more time, please whereas allowing biological males to participate in female sports may limit opportunities for girls to compete. OK. Like it. Director
Yanez, Director Konz, thoughts on the addition? President Shandy, without legal analysis addition. I think we need to be really careful. So I have the executive order pulled up here and I'm like hurriedly reading it. I'm not an attorney. I teach preschool but I read lots of fantastic children's literature every day. I think that. This is something that requires a little bit more analysis. Before adding I think anytime we're adding language that hasn't been looked over, we make we could
potentially make ourselves susceptible to Litigation that we're not aware of because we're not lawyers like just full stop. So that's my only piece about adding that tonight. What about so the second whereas that says Title 9 of the Education Amendments of 1972 was enacted to that no person is excluded from participation in, Denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity on the basis of sex. OK. It doesn't get into Specifically, biologically female
until 1,2,3,4, This resolution the 4th whereas whereas executive order 14201 title keeping men out of women's sports issued by President Donald J Trump on February 5th, 2025 mandates that athletic programs programs and related facilities designated for women be limited to individuals who are biologically female at birth. And I seek because the next whereas is the board recognizes the public school leadership must act proactively, not reactively, to uphold the safety dignity and legal rights of students entrusted to our care.
So when we're talking specifically about our female athletes, they're only mentioned in that one. So I see that, I see the leap there for the why. But I also feel that the second whereas captures that it just just doesn't call out female athletes specifically so. I understand why we would want to add it, I just am less comfortable adding something tonight without someone legal eyes on it first. And I don't know that we have time to look into the actual executive order to find, I find, I mean.
They don't have any whereas’ Director Yanez, President Shandy. I would just like, I think it's a really good point and I don't think It really like in our hearts we know the why we've been been talking about it here tonight. I don't know that it's necessary for us to be able to move forward and I think. We could leave, leave it out because I don't think it's essential to the bigger components The resolution at the bottom and the four the numbered 4 items. OK, Director Konz. I concur. Yeah Director Payne, I appreciate you bringing that
up, but I I'm a little bit more in line with Superintendent Haberer that it does make me uncomfortable. Because Our attorney, our District Attorney, spent a lot of time, I know this, on this wording and I appreciate the way it flows because it's so honed in on the executive order that it just it all flows together So I really do appreciate it, but I prefer not to add it it either. I think we can vote on it as is with the intention
of maybe talking to Ms. Thompson about adding it and then And then if we want to do a revision or something later on, we can do that so. Is there anything else? Oh, sorry, super Oh yes hello. Well hi I can't go to a board meeting without talking to you guys. I'm sorry yes. So I just had a point of of clarification. So Director Konz you you'd mentioned you wanted to to add the lodging and you'd mentioned High Trails in the same vein of of this. And this is a directive to the Superintendent
title of this resolution is athletics. And so by adding high trails as an intention. You're changing this. That's gonna broaden the scope beyond the resolution that I'd be really cautious about or just add clarity to. So High Trails, by definition, is not athletics It's a course. Is that correct? It's an, it's an, it's a program. It's a program, OK. And so it's not, it wouldn't fall under athletics or activities. No, that's a good point. And I really worry about the mission creep now. I understand the intent, but I
I would also say that intent Behind that is captured in current policies and practices and and I worry that adding a resolution is going to muddy the waters far too much and create far more problems than it potentially might solve given that those problems are already solved with our current policies and practices. OK so but our verbiage that we added for 3 did not say specifically call out High Trail it's clear because he said that in public statements. And I want to make sure that we're clear on that so that there's not any misinterpretation later on.
Cleared It has to do with athletic and that was just kind of an aside from me not directing the resolution to be changed but just as a bug and and Superintendent Haber's ear that of of those many calls I've gotten over the years, a lot of them have to do with lodging eye trails. So that's just for you to and just so you know we've significantly changed those last year yeah so if you've gotten any since this year I would need to know because we significantly.
Those rules and even the way the lodging is. Supervised this past year, right So and remind me is it specific in our policy that it's Same biological gender? No, but Shane do you want to follow up on that? That's outside of the purview of your topic of discussion. I worry that we'd be violating the board policies on other areas, so we can talk about that at another point. Totally fine. Yeah, again it was just a little comment out of the side of my mouth
Alright. And please notate to add that to the next agenda for discussion. Thank you, Mr. Knight. But yes, we will keep #3 as is related to athletics and hotel lodges, of course. It was just a little side comment Mrs Ruckman, do you have that new number three? Kind of drafted yet that you could read to us, please? Vice President Konz, can you please verify if I have this worded correctly please? Access to lodging and overnight lodging. Is that what is to be be bolded as #3? My only suggestion is access to lodging and overnight
accommodations. That's what the other school districts used both both of them. OK. So then continue please. OK so I have that in bold. Access to lodging and overnight accommodations as point 3 in bold lodging and overnight accommodation. This is where I apologize and you just verification lodging an overnight lodging room assignments shall be limited to biological genders assigned at birth. Yeah, you were so close and I know it's on the fly so please copy #2
and change take out locker rooms rooms, changing rooms, restrooms, and any facilities and add, Director Konz, I'm trying to go through all these notes. OK, bold Access to lodging and overnight accommodations shall access to I say we just repeat it, right? Yeah, lodging and overnight accommodation, we can say room assignments. Yep. And go slow and say it again. I will so access to
to lodging and overnight accommodation room assignments. OK, one moment please. OK, access to lodging and overnight accommodation room assignments. And then it's just the rest of the shall shall be limited to individuals. I think you might have forgotten that word limited to individuals of their biological gender assigned at birth. OK, perfect. Do we want the last sentence board OK and repeat the this policy is enacted to uphold the privacy, comfort and safety
of all students. Vice President Konz, May I read this again? OK, please in bold. Access to lodging and overnight accommodations as Point 3. Access to lodging and overnight accommodation room assignments shall be limited to individuals of their biological genders assigned at birth. This policy is enacted to uphold the privacy, comfort, and safety of all students. And the only thing is make gender singular please. Yes ma'am, biological gender yes OK. Thank you so much for doing that.
Thank you. I'm sorry. And then #4 administrative implementation is just numbered 4 now, yes thank you. I did have a question do we need to say I was looking at this later designee is for number 4, the Superintendent or the designee is directed by the ASD 20 Board of Education to develop and and implement district policy? I mean, 'cause we don't have a policy. So yes, please can you add To develop and implement. Just got that today.
And President Shandy do we need want a deadline on the resolution or is that just a verbal agreement? What's that? We have to vote on a resolution before we put a deadline Deadline for you to develop and implement policy, I can tell you right now. Well, here's what I'm thinking if we were to pass this resolution tonight. I'm going on vacation. Many of my cabinet members are going on vacation. Only downtime that we have all year
downtime 'cause I actually did teams meets from my camper last year the last week in June, but is like that last week in June, 1st week in July, I know I will be gone several people people are gone, so I know I'll be back like on the 9th, 10th I think and then in talking to. President Shandy, we're. I know and. Director Payne, there was a interest in having a policy kind of ready a a draft to look at for the board to look
at before the fall sports officially start up, which is August 4th. So my suggestion would would be if the if this resolution were to be passed tonight would be for us as a board for for you guys as a board to pick a date the last week in July. And have us another special meeting then. And I think between now and then the end end of July, working together with Mr. Anderson, Mr. Knight, we could come up with something similar and
And I think that our legal counsel will be back in town 'cause she's out of town this week. So we're all kind of missing each other. So I would say we could probably have a draft policy together ready for a a meeting at the end of July. Which would be before the official sports season starts up. Are you comfortable with that as a verbal I think agreement? We do, I just wanted to make sure you didn't want any dates in here. Thank you. OK, excellent
Any other discussion before we make a motion to vote? Director Wilburn, I just like to exercise my talent for pointing out the obvious, and this wasn't implicitly a part of Mr. Alexander's presentation, although he indicated it strongly. Talking about ice hockey and football, this is strictly A 1-way street, right? So there's really no issue with girls suiting up and recording 22 tackles and 14 sacks, scoring 15 points and
and grabbing 25 rebounds. Running a 10 500m and leaving all the boys in the dust who could only run an 1111 second 100m. It's strictly a A 1-way sport, a 1-way street and there's a a reason for that, which is why we're we're doing this. All right, if we're ready to vote I need a motion, please. Right, I move to approve resolution 245- 25 regarding student access to locker rooms
facilities, and athletics and lodging. Second. Roll call, please. Vice President Konz, aye. Director Wilburn, Aye. Director Yanez, aye. Director Payne, aye. President Shandy, aye. All right Thank you very much team for that very authentic and messy conversation at at times, but I think it's really valuable for ourselves and our community. So I appreciate that so. On to the next messy, sticky conversation, the
next item for board consideration. Is whether to take action on joining the litigation titled School District 49 versus Sullivan and all all #25-CV-1463D Colorado following discussion on its potential implications for our district and alignment with board values and legal responsibilities. Discussion, please. I think we did have a lot of discussion already in the first resolution, but I think it would be good to discuss again. I'm happy to go first, but if somebody else is ready. Director Wilburn.
Please. So I wasn't on the call for those in the gallery and those watching online, I wasn't on the call with CHSAA, got debriefed on it afterwards afterwards. What I sense is CHSAA is on roller skates. Not of their own making. And they're waiting for some decisions to get made. I'm not so sure CHSAA doesn't actually want this lawsuit and it's been mentioned by a few people already. So the court forces CHSAA hand rather than CHSAA having to make its own decision some of the things that we've learned from CHSAA I'm. It's a policy, but it's not enforced well. It's either a policy or it's not a policy if you're in front of a judge and
and jury, the idea that we, yeah, it's on our books, we never enforce it. That's out the window. Hey, Ms. Allan Allan, I pulled you over for going 40 miles an hour and a 35. Will I go 40 here all the time and never get pulled over. Either it's a policy or it's not and the whole idea of pushing this down to the local level, to the local district, to the local school, I'm not buying that either. So let's just say that District 20 enacts some sort of a very strong policy and Liberty High School plays Rampart High School. We know that it's all girls playing girls. Now Liberty goes and plays in
Salida and some girl is competing against somebody who is physically dominant and gets a leg broken. We're still getting sued. So I think we need to push CHSAA in this direction So what I'd like to do is Mr Saccoliti, so we've we've read a lot of the policies to you from CHSAA by CHSAA by law, but hearing it and seeing it aren't the same thing. Do you have 2850.3 that JPEG available? You do or you do not 2850 dot OK, let's hope this is Ruckman
President Shandy, I am able to send it over to him real quick if I may. Sure we do have it printed, but go ahead and for And for the public, yeah, so they can see and we can. But we do have a discussion. And then can you also send over after that Bylaw 3 300, which is a PDF file? You got that? OK, let's do 2850.3 first It's probably in cyberspace now. So in a couple seconds, all of you in the gallery and everybody watching online, you can see what we've been referring to. People are visual learners. I think it's just better if you can see it with your own eyes. 2850.3 I
have it as a jpg. I don't know what Mrs. Ruckman has it as. Maybe we don't have it in our packet. 2853 But that's not what he's talking about. Yeah, this one. This one, Yep, I can read that is 300. I'm looking for 28. I'm looking at it right there. This is the one. Do you have that? I know you because you read from it. You're the one that quoted it. OK. Can you square that up so So we want ABC and D to be there we go. OK, so those of you in the gallery, those online what we're what I'm
m focusing in now is Art B boy. Whenever the school provides A-Team or teams for boys and a team or teams for girls in the same sport, girls shall not be permitted to qualify for the boys team for the boys teams in that sport, nor boys shall be permitted to qualify for the girls teams in that sport. Now Mr. Mr Saccoliti, can you jump us over to bylaw Bylaw 300? There it is. This is the equity code
2. Member schools shall ensure that all students have equal access and opportunities to participate in activities and athletics without unlawful discrimination based on disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation gender identity, gender expression, so on and so forth #3. CHSAA recognizes the right of transgender student athletes to participate in interscholastic activities free from unlawful discrimination based on gender identity. Gender expression sexual orientation. So to my eyes and and again, as Ms. Yanez says, I'm not a lawyer. But that appears a pretty straight
conflict. Those seem to be at odds with one another and what I believe is the intent behind District 49 and now District 11 is to force CHSAA to clarify, to reconcile those and say which one do we believe in It feels to me like CHSAA isn't necessarily going to do that unless and until they're directed to by a court of law. That's my interpretation. I can tell you from the conversation yesterday myself, that is exactly what Mr. Krueger said
said, he said. We want clarity from the courts. He did not say we don't want to decide, but basically he said he said we want clarity from the courts. We will gain clarity through the judicial process, is what he said. And sometimes that's what Judicial outcomes do. It isn't always necessarily about recovering compensation. It isn't always necessarily about throwing someone in jail, anything like that. I think CHSAA just wants and needs direction from the judicial body because the legislative body says one thing its own bylaws say another thing, the executive branch
of the federal government says a third thing, and they're just throwing their hands up saying what do we want to do? So I'm not entirely sure they aren't welcoming this lawsuit. Yeah, it did it. I will say it did seem that way. He thanked us for calling. Thanked us for our time. Thanked us for our direct conversation and basically said, do what you need to do. That was my takeaway So Director Payne, Sure. President Shandy one of the things that I just wanted to point out early on and this
this isn't the first time in my in my career that we've had this happen but it is something that is right now for any Board of Education in the state of Colorado we have irreconcilable conflict between between our very own state laws. Between CHSAA policy. That has conflicting bylaws within itself, but with federal executive orders that have come out and we have seen action taken by the NCAA to make decisions
on that and I think for us to not only make the decision of the resolution, I guess it kind of comes again if you bear with me, you guys are just getting to know the rookie on the board, but it's just not my nature to sit back as a leader. We certainly didn't do that after the Columbine tragedy. We had to look at is this a battle that we should fight for? Should our girls have a voice in for should Should District 20 have a voice in this? I don't think we should sit back and just let other districts figure it out in a court of law. I think we have
a strong voice in a lawsuit to back up what we just did in a resolution and and I think one without the other just isn't as strong. Yeah, I will. I'll say in making any decision that we make, we look at all the variables. We look at both sides of the bumpers to figure out what we're doing because what we do has weight and it has consequence and all of that. I think going through and talking to all of the different
entities, talk to different members of different boards about, What was their thought process? What was their legal counsel? Yeah, Director Payne, did you were you you able to talk to any of the other people in the lawsuit besides CHSAAa? So for me, I spent. I did, I did, I can say I just think it was important that CHSAA names in the lawsuit and then after working for multiple attorney generals over the course of my career and having the relationship of working in the
the Attorney General's office, I felt the need to reach out to to our current attorney general and also sit down and talk with our past attorney general. So I sat down and talked with our past Attorney General, John Suthers. Also last night I corresponded with. Attorney General Phil Weiser and briefly we had a meeting scheduled for today. They had something that that came up, so they asked. I sent it in writing and wanted to make sure just respectfully as colleagues, that they understood that the decision that we were under and that my role
on the Board of Education as a Director that that we were going to vote on this issue today and I didn't want them to hear about it after the fact that we had you know, very carefully gathered information and reached out for that very purpose, so I felt better as a professional just being able to to apprise him directly of the situation that we felt we were in. And I used that very language, the irreconcilable conflict between state laws
and the federal executive order. And anyway so I felt better just as a Board, I wanted you to know that I did share that information because I had the ability to. Director Konz. Vice President Konz. Firstly, I truly appreciate all the time and effort of not only our staff but our board members for diving into this so extensively in our very long everyone for being at our long executive session so we could hear from all the
the attorneys and really understand this question. The lawsuits very different for me than the resolution and policy. That's paramount to me and all the constituents I've heard from over the years, is that our district has a policy to protect the safety and fairness of females in athletics, so I am not as keen on, I mean it's really The guesstimate, Really, That's all we can call
But our portion right now, the guesstimate of cost. I'm not, I'm not very comfortable with spending that much money right now. We have I feel, believe me, I've heard board members I've heard you that it's not much difference to you if I'm saying that correctly joining it now or later, but I do feel like we've got a window of another monthish. We might not learn anymore. I was going to say what would it's what would granted
The financial Implications to our district At this time, I'm just not comfortable myself saying yes to the lawsuit right now. OK, What questions would you want answered in the next month if we were to? Maybe the question of is if 20 other large districts join and then our price tag is much less that would be a significant change of heart for me OK, Director Yanez. So we were all up at the state Capitol together when a lawmaker said
to us, your job is to educate kids and you need to do a better job at it. And he also said, but the state's not making any easier on easier on you. This is yet another case of that. My concern as a Director on a School Board of District 20 is District 20 and making sure that we protect girls and sports here in District 20. From there you hear all the usual taglines, classrooms versus courtrooms. You can't put a price tag on principles. LES not ALS for our school leaders out there, they're
priceless. I don't know that D11 has formally jumped in on this We have, they have OK, obviously the the lawsuit only mentions 49 at this point. At a time such as this, right? So you've got this happening on a national level, you've got CHSAA at odds with itself, you've got the state at odds with executive order. You've got what potentially will be the Supreme Court hearing what all of this is at odds with in Title 9 and then amendment 14, right? That's where the crux of all this is going. We have no estimate on cost. We do, we
do. OK, see. So that's I wasn't Privy to that. I hope they're right. Because that's sort of my feeling, too. My concern is where is the money coming from? And I wish I could go to every single taxpayer in the school district and ask them what how they wanted these funds used. But knowing that we have a resolution with an upcoming policy, is that enough? I'm going to just kind of leave it there. In my senior moment, you said something that I was gonna respond to and I don't remember what it was was now. So did you say all of that again? I'm just kidding. I
can actually. I took notes. What was for the record? What was our estimate estimate? It was an executive session. So can I jump in? Yes, Superintendent. OK. So my understanding was that was not a formal estimate. It was a rough and that that was only if more districts joined than what currently would join if we were to join as well. We have not. We have yet to receive a formal estimate, although they said they would get us that information Well, they did email Tonya an engagement letter.
They did, but there was not an estimate in there that I'm aware Of, because that what we saw in executive session did not have an an estimated cost to us. OK. And I'll share something I haven't seen which I don't think. No, it had, it had prices on it The prices on that were the amount for attorney per hour, that's what was on there, not the overall cost of the case. My suggestion and recommendation from the Superintendent would be I don't think that there is I don't see a significant disadvantage if
we're already gonna have a meeting in July to wait until July to give us more chance to kind of dig in, maybe talk to some other districts, look more nationally at what people nationally have done around this. Becky, I mean, this has come up pretty fast. We haven't had a chance to really take a close look at the budget right now. I think we don't have other funding sources, as you know D11 has 80 mills, $80 million in mills per year that they get extra.
D D49 gets 30, we get 25,000,000. Am I correct with those numbers? Becky. Roughly, I mean we get 20, about 26,758,062 So sorry, that's not very rough, is it? Yeah, I I knew like got it. I was rough. I did say rough but I was just getting ingrained yes. So I think really looking at funding we don't have have some of the other funding sources that D11 and D have. The estimate that again, that we were
given was related to if there was a fourth District, which hasn't happened yet. to our knowledge. We also there's a possibility that larger federal organizations could join mid-July and or so and I think that we could gain a lot of clarity by the end of July to kind of see are some of those other people that they've said are going to join, are they really joining or not? Because I think that could give us a better estimate
of cost. And I think by doing that, we could still meet the your desire. And I think, Susan as well. Director Payne of really trying to make a decision around this before our official sports season starts and we did ask them point blank and they and this was in the non-executive session because we had another meeting that was not executive and I think that and they said that it wouldn't be a problem
if we wanted to join at the end of July, after maybe we have a little bit more time. I do feel for Director Yanez coming out of out of town and I think out of a team spirit would be good for us to wait and and give her a little bit more time to really look at things and I just don't see a disadvantage of waiting until our meeting in July. Other than I know that it was expressed in the non-executive session that you
might help if D20 joined at the beginning as far as the way the overall lawsuit looks and maybe in convincing other districts to join. But I see that more as an advantage, personally, to the attorneys at this point as opposed to really making sure that we've looked at finance, we've looked at what's happened nationally. We've given all of our teammates the opportunity to dig deep into this. And that we'd have the assurance that, you know, we've turned over every stone and
that's the way I like to do things if we're going to make a decision that could have a big impact, I think it could have a significant impact on our finance. And I'm not saying it's not worth it but I just think that we I would personally like to recommend more time at least to the end of July and at that point put that decision out there again. Director Payne. President Shandy and Superintendent Haberer, just looking at my notes as I'm just trying to
One one of the things that we were told if we delayed by to join the lawsuit. The date I believe was June 20th. I'm asking you guys for your help on this, but just for the conversation that we've had, the courts may not even allow us to join that. Because anytime there's a procedural requirement or an amendment to that, that also adds costs. And do any of you remember, wasn't there a date? It was the 24th, but we asked them point
blank if they would allow us to join and they said yes, that they didn't think that would be a problem. They here's where they said if we waited till August, or later, like 6 months later, one of them said then that would be an issue. But July? In the non-executive session where we talked to Michael, who's the one actually who will be the one litigating with the support of the other attorneys basically said that they didn't think that would be an issue that early on. They also said that you
know, sometimes Judges if it's like multiple addendums, they finally say stop, you know, we're not gonna do any more more addendums, but doing it in July didn't seem to be an issue at all when we asked in our non-executive session. President Shandy Yes. To Director Yanez's point about wishing she could could just ask every taxpayer in our district. I spurred You know, I did think I was thinking the same kind of thing
you know, in talking with other folks over the last few days. Is it even a viable option I mean we may make a motion and approve to join the the lawsuit anyway, so it's a moot point in that case. But can we do like a quick Google questionnaire that's not paying Hanover, you know, a lot of money for a survey if we did not move forward with the lawsuit tonight is is that an option to send? I don't know if it's opening up a can of worms or if it's just prudent to get
input about, if our constituents would be in favor of joining the lawsuit or not. Director Wilburn. I think it's opening a huge can of worms. We're elected to make these decisions and no matter what decision you make, no matter what decision that decision is gonna be this or or anything else, you're gonna have people who are happy, you're gonna have people who are upset. It's just like an election. I mean, someone wins, someone loses. Some people are happy, some people are are not. That's inevitable. Leaders lead. And sometimes and Leadership, I'm reminded of the one of the closing scenes in
the baseball movie Moneyball with Brad Pitt, when he's sitting down with the general manager or the the owner of the Boston Red Sox who makes him an offer and whatever, and the guy tells him, The first guy through the wall always gets bloodied up. Always. No matter what that looks like. It could be financially. I mean, it could be a lot of different things, but the first person through the wall always gets bloodied up. And I have a feeling that there are other districts around this around around the state doing the same thing that we're doing saying, well, it would be nice to see if District 20 gets in or if District 16 or
whatever gets in before we make a move and at some point somebody has to lead. I'm not without sympathy for Director Yanez who Due to no fault of her own, I mean she had tremendous family family obligations and she just hasn't been able to catch up. We've all been there, so I'm not unsympathetic to the fact that she just hasn't been in all the meetings, hasn't done all the readings. She's got to get caught up and maybe buying her some days to do that makes sense. Maybe it's not fair to force a vote on somebody who really just hasn't had the opportunity to digest all the information and
and maybe she can make that call. I can see that as being a reason for potentially punting the ball down the road. But it would be a matter of do you think you need that to be comfortable? Director Wilburn, I think that we all need more information, actually. I think without any real kind of estimate of how many taxpayer dollars this may potentially cost us, I think anytime we make a financial decision, 'cause I, yes, I understand we're at the tip of this spear and we wanna lead and I think we did so tonight, Voting in that resolution as far as the
the lawsuit is concerned, I just feel like there's too many unknowns and I don't think that me reading any document that's been provided thus far is going to answer those questions. But I do appreciate you giving me that moment moment to catch my breath. I see this as this is a power in numbers game and if we want to play that and we want to do that, we're rolling the dice, right? So we're spending the money with no guarantees. Frankly, that's kind of how all of this goes. I mean, the state handed us books, they handed us pronouns. The fact that we're not, we didn't have other litigation
regarding that is kind of surprising, right? And it's still, well, Elizabeth, we just can like look at our neighbors and see how that's all going down. So I think, It's my understanding that now the waiting game starts to see if the DOJ picks this up right, That's what happens. And the benefit for District 20 saying we want to be on board is that we get attention. We're a huge district. It's gonna, it's gonna say something. Should we do this? Again, my personal concern as
a board member on this board sitting at this dais for just a few few more months are the students of this district and without knowing how many taxpayer dollars we're gonna be using to to do this, I just feel like that's a large unknown when school finance is in the place it's in budgets are already tight. The I can never remember what it's called, Becky, the percentage of it's 8 between 4 and 12%. We said it what is What is that called? So board policy
and admin policy both require us to keep in our general fund an unassigned fund balance of between 4 and 12% The budget that was approved is at 8.67%. So depending upon the dollar amount, that's where the money would come from. Not because it's a lawsuit or it it's something that was not funded in the budget. So automatically if we're going to add that in, it comes from the unassigned fund balance So, depending upon the amount, it would just lower
that percentage. Thank you. So if we still can jump in after knowing whether or not the DOJ actually picks this up and we still benefit from the Outcome, what amount of information can we get from now until then regarding the potential cost that That that's the question I need answered where I would feel more comfortable. Again, I feel like we got an estimate in the executive session. The specific question was asked and it was answered by Chris
Murray. And again, what I thought I heard was he gave us the percentage based on 4 districts jumping on, not 3, and all we have right now is 3. With potential if we jump on no confirmation of any other districts or charters for that matter, 'cause I asked that specific question in the non-executive session. Director Payne, did you have something? Sure I just received clarity and so I just want to read this directly to you, but we would have to decide no later
than next Tuesday as a district, and that is from the litigation team, Chris Murray and Julianne Ellis Julianne Ellis, I don't, I have no idea. But I just wanted to clarify that if we do want to take more time to gather information then we'd probably need to set another special meeting up by next Tuesday. Is that the 24th or 23rd? I was just going to look at my calendar The 24th. So I think we had the original date as the 20th is why we had scheduled this special meeting. It's just
just from our My past notes is that the 20th was the deadline. And then there was both meetings. I don't know that I'm I wasn't as clear on the waiting of I I guess the DOJ and all of that. I don't know like I don't know that is something that I feel like we need to wait for, personally, I but I do think like we do have to think of that timeline and so if we do need to gather clarity we still would want to meet that timeline. So my understanding of the timeline, because I flat out asked that question,
to Michael, who is the main litigator Chris works for him and he said that and I thought asked that as well is that yes, you could join later. I think the the difference to your point, Susan, is the addendum right and that it would be up to the courts as to whether or not they would accept the addendum. They hadn't didn't think that would be an an issue for them to accept the addendum. And they certainly wouldn't have
an issue with us applying for it if we waited not six months from now, but if we waited till the end of July. Director Wilburn. Did you say that came from Chris? Is that what you just said? OK, well, maybe that that's a point of clarification that we have to nail Down, if possible, within the next 24 hours I seem to recall and I recall, I think I recall a lot of things maybe but but we got a fairly specific high-low in executive session. Not knowing who else might be jumping in or what have you.
You missed that, but that information is available. So just to recap my understanding. Lauren, you, I mean, sorry, Director Yanez, You want a clearer picture on price, correct? Yep. OK anything else? So the two district or I guess it would be 3 district versus 4 district Price? Specifically. OK Director Konz, what is it, tell me again what you're looking for. My desire was for our district to have policies in place
to protect our students, especially our female athletes and all students in locker rooms and lodging. And that's it, just at this time. I'm happy. I'll still make a motion so we can vote. But I just I am not comfortable. With Just using our district's resources at this time. Like I said, it could change in a few weeks if we elect to wait a little bit, but I just our resources will change in a few weeks, no
our the amount of resources we might expend if say other entities join the lawsuit. But really, I just at the heart of the matter of the possible cost of joining this litigation, I'm just not comfortable at this time doing that. I appreciate us wanting to be a front runner as a district, I I appreciate all the arguments, and you know the details. You know that we all know and that has been shared with us.
But I think we're doing what we need to do for our students with the policy, with the resolution and the policies. And it's just a precarious time with our public schools and military installations, those kind of funds being so tight and I guess financially those are more of a priority to me than joining this district when we're already gonna have policies in place. OK, Superintendent Haberer, what stone left unturned, would you
like to see overturned? I have a concern because I because I feel like Chris is sending something different than what I heard before. It's in direct opposition to what I heard before so I'm concerned about that I I think that the question about joining now or later is still kind of up in the air and there were maybe some estimates in the first conversation outside of the executive session that were out there. They all I would love to see
some clarity in writing around what those costs would be with who's joined right now to this point. I would suggest I'm trying to go into the solutions mode. I would suggest that maybe we reach out to Chris Martin and Michael and see if we can't get another executive session to ask those very pointed questions. Because I feel like what you just read is very different than what I thought I heard before
and I just need some clarity around that personally. So my wonder is, and actually they said the 23rd or the 24th. And I know I'm leaving on the 24th, so if you feel like 'cause it seems that you have some connections if you wanted to to reach out to them and we were able to find a time especially since Director Yanez wasn't able to be in on the first executive session. I think some questions have come up and it might be helpful just to get some clarity around
that. They did say, you know, I mean, there was a suggestion in the first session, non-executive, where they said they'd probably be able to get us, kind of maybe in writing more what the ranges were. All we have right now is the price per hour per attorney and So I think I agree with Director Konz and Director Yanez that it would be nice to have something in writing around what their estimates are and get some clarity around the deadlines. So I would be open to working with Cheryl if
there's a time if the board wanted to have another another executive session before that deadline To be able to accomplish that. Director Wilburn, do you have anything? Yes, I think that CHSAA as a governing body needs to communicate clearly, Succinctly, with its governed bodies that being with the school districts and hasn't done that we we've discussed that ad nauseam. So, Yes, we're going to do what we need to do to protect athletes in District 20. I've already made this example. A girl playing
soccer for Air Academy High School playing against a Denver team takes a 50 mile an hour shot off the ribs. Her ribs are just as bruised and broken in Denver as they would have been in District 20, so, I think forcing CHSAA to make a decision is something that needs to happen if our district can help CHSAA make that that decision, I think we need to. My only stone in shoe, my only Pebble is some clarity on dates, dates and deadlines. Is there such a thing as a hard day to get in or a hard day to get out? We've got some
conflicting on that. But that should be easy to come by. That should be easy to come by. I seem to remember the 23rd, 24th, whatever you said it was being mentioned in the executive session, but it was a long night. We're all in there eating M and M’s and whatnot until What? Whatever time so, churros, so it's possible that what your notes say and what your notes say and what I heard, you know there's some ambiguity there. I just wanted we can clean that up and that's the only heartburn I've got
Director Payne. President Shandy, the rest of of the board Superintendent Haberer, my question is And I don't know if we could take a recess or a break and I could provide one of you the contact information to see if we could get clarity and then come back to the meeting or if it's better to schedule something different. I didn't know if that's something that we could do to take to get the clarity that we need. Well, we can always take a recess, yes.
Yeah, we'll take a 5 minute recess. Thank you. All right. Thank you. I think in all of that just kind of my thoughts because I we all got to go around, I think I was certainly elected to be a leader, not a freeloader in the sense that I'm going to let someone else do the work and then garner the benefits from that. Just being an entrepreneur never been of that thread if you will, having bootstrapped my own business. So it doesn't
sit right on me when someone tells me to let someone else do the work and garner the benefits from that. If I'm in a position to do the work, if you will, I mean, there are definitely times when maybe I'm not in that position to do the work and I say I can't this time. I need someone else to pull. I don't feel like me personally in the seat in that position right now and I'm more of the, now we have the ability to do the work,
and we should and that. But that's my opinion I think our community. In a larger sense I mean mean, yes, we have done protection for our students in D20 right now with the resolution that we just passed so we have set that ball in motion. This is the opportunity to increase our circle of influence when it comes to the state and the teams that we're playing, furthering the safety of our students. And I'll tell you if a student gets hurt in
a game, they're not succeeding in the classroom because they have a concussion or they have a broken leg or something like, and that can happen whether they're playing against the a boy or a girl or whatever. But if there's something that we can do do to further increase our ability to keep our students safe safe, we should do that. I think the question is, Do we need more information to be had by Friday the 20th, or Monday the 23rd, is what I would say.
Because I believe all the questions asked have to do with money, and negotiating the contract for attorney fees. And in timeline and those are all questions that theoretically could be answered 24 to 48 hours, but, I mean, I could say that Friday the 20th, but. So we have to decide as a board how we want what what motion we want. Do we want to vote now? Do we want to say we're
gonna have a special meeting on Friday the 20th or Monday the the 23rd to come back and answer those questions and then vote? Weigh in. I mean, I can make the decision, but I'd rather us do do it as a team. President Shandy, I'm here and not leaving, so I can make myself available should we have another meeting. I think It was unfortunate I wasn't here for some of those conversations, But I don't think you can ever have too much information when making big decisions such as this, so that would be my thought around that.
Vice President Konz. I don't know how much more information we're going to get, but I appreciate that we were are going to try our hardest to get clarity. And I appreciate what you're saying about not writing the coattails of other districts’ hopeful win with the lawsuit, but I will just say I do think this is one of those times like you granted and you're what you just said that maybe it's when we need someone else to carry us, because of our financial situation in our district
With our MLO with our, mills with other things I brought up. I just want to say that I totally get what you're saying, but I do think we should consider that maybe D20 is not in as financially strong position as some of the other districts. So I just want to say That. Yes, and I would counter that that with. I also think it should be considered that there is a direct correlation to us Not having upheld or not being in a
state that isn't upholding federal executive orders and cuts being made and I personally believe that showing good faith of us doing That, could potentially help us claw back some of that money. Now I can't tell you the source of that or whatever, but that is that is That's my statement, I'm sticking to it. And I appreciate that And I sure would love to have that grounded and I, I'd love
if we could hear that directly from some people 'cause that would I'm sure, change my mind if that's possible for people in the the DoD or federal government to give us some of those. OK notes, Director Wilburn. Also an entrepreneur, I also got up every morning put on on a hard hat, stuck a shovel in the ground. Euphemistically speaking, and have a lot of that as well. Comfortable with the vote tonight, however, if the rest of the
board would prefer gathering what information is Available, I’m flexible Thursday and Friday, Thursday but not Thursday night, Friday or Friday night. I'm comfortable kicking the ball that can down the road a few days and we can tighten some things up if necessary. Director Payne. Bless you. I think if we need 48 hours, I mean it seems to me like what we're asking for clarity on so that you so everybody feels comfortable making an informed decision moving forward That's fine. I think one of the other things that I don't know if if it's possible because we've asked this, but you know, I
know there is a certain amount of money paid out by every district having been a cabinet member In settlement funds, I mean there's a cost of not joining the the lawsuit in my mind. I know we've had that conversation and maybe that's something up for argument, but, What do we pay out as a district on the other side, outside of the general education fund when we have to settle cases? So I just think that if we want to make an informed decision none of this seems to be like a long turn around in time for us to gather that information and I would prefer
personally, if we could do it Thursday rather than Friday. All right, Thursday calendars. So let me just say coming from our CFO as well, I think we both Director Ms. Allan and I would both feel much more comfortable having official estimate because I think from the CFO position and mine, we don't feel like we have a solid estimate. There were some numbers that were thrown out and I think that would be important in looking at and potentially preparing
for what that impact would be with our budget. I would also say that for the clarity that we need, I think it would depend. Maybe our decision is like, let's make the goal to meet by the end of the day on the 23rd, but it would also depend on when Chris or Michael, or both hopefully, can meet with us just to give us that definite information because I think it's important it would be important to have a session with them on there where if there were any remaining questions, we could all just ask
them. Again, we're all hearing the same information. Rather than them texting somebody or that way, we're talking to them in person. One last chance to interact, to ask those questions some some of them again. So that we're all on the same page, especially with Dan, I wouldn't last that long probably because it's more around the deadline and then then what is the estimated cost right now with who you know has joined the lawsuit, not projecting with who you think, right, because that's kind of what
And my mind was a little muddy. And so if we could get them to do that I think our time might have to fluctuate a little bit depending on when they're available. I think if they want us to join the lawsuit, they can figure out how to make it work by Thursday or Friday. I So there's your message if you want us to join the the lawsuit, figure it out by Thursday or Friday. We will be taking a vote. I'm more than likely on one of those days. So who's gonna Friday's fine, Friday's fine. Do you want? Do you want I
I don't care. We can. We can talk. We don't have to do. Yeah. Got it. We will have a special meeting Thursday or Friday, depending on our calendars, to answer these questions and with the intention to take a vote at that time, all right? Let me get back to my script. I put it away. This meeting is adjourned.