Noticing the time in the presence of a quorum, I call the July 28th, 2026 meeting of the act and finance committee to order. Um, and we will take public concerns. If you if you want to give your update
now, we can I'll I'll have you wait a little bit. >> There's one person online. I don't know if it's a FinCom member or uh public comment. I'm just going to allow them to talk and find out if they want to say something or if they're if they're should be promoted to panelist. Colin user one, I'm giving you the mic if you
want to say anything. >> Uh not been com and no comment. Thank you. >> All right. Okay. It was ter. Okay. Um we are this meeting is remote as well with Greg being
remote. So we will need to do a votes. will have to be by roll call or pretty thin tonight. So, for the first under uh chair's update, Greg and I did attend the ALG meeting [snorts] last week,
which we'll go over after we have a presentation from one of our Scott's summer interns. Uh they weren't able to make the next two meeting dates. So, we're going to take that under chairman's update right now to get that out of the way
and then we'll go from there. The floor is yours. Do an introduction. >> If you feel more comfortable, you can you can sit at the table or you can stand depending on what >> let me just >> let me get uh let me share you get ready
to share here. Hang on. Share. >> And while we're waiting and while we're waiting, we will have minutes will be at the next meeting. And Greg, you will need to post the agenda as I'm away next week. So, it has to be posted by
Thursday. >> Okay. >> It should be a pretty simple one. Just approval of minutes and um which Alison will send out to the committee prior for review and then
it'll be summer intern updates and that will probably pretty much be it unless we have any breaking news. Thank you. And please send that to the clerk's office. >> Introduce yourself, where you go to school, things like that.
>> Okay. So, hi, my name is Samira Theani. I'm a recent graduate of ABRHS High School and a rising freshman at Boston University in the Questroom School of Business and College of General Studies.
So, I wanted to start off today by talking a little bit about social media and the primary ways that our residents stay informed about what's happening in the town of Actton. So, just a quick show of hands of how many people have
seen any misinformation spread online about Actton on any of the Actton Town websites. >> Alyssa raised two hands and a foot since she's off camera. Two feet and two hands. >> So, today I'd like to introduce a
practical solution called an Actton AI assisted review system. So to start off, I'm going to talk about the goals and benefits of using AI within the town. Then I'm going to go into the potential automation depending
upon the types of questions. Then we're going to look at sample AI responses. What can we learn from early adopters who've used this technology, how it works, and the estimated cost to implement an AI assistant. So to start off for goals and benefits,
um an AI assistant can improve responsiveness between the residents and the town with a 24/7 response rate. This can also reduce repetitive staff workload to not have to answer the same questions several times and make town
information much more easier to find. To support transparency between the town, allowing for better civic engagement. As we can see in the graph, in 2023, less than 4% of the registered voters in
Actton chose to attend meetings, meaning that most of them got their information from some social media platform. So, it's important that we keep information on social media as transparent as possible. And then going into benefits, there can be more consistent public
messaging using approved town sources and the town can have better control on what the reoccurring questions are and what people in the town are most worried about. This can help improve town websites, forms, and services.
So now we're looking at the potential automation by question type. So in order to incorporate AI we have to understand its limitations and what questions can be answered using AI. So for example for general information majority of the
questions asked are using general information which are questions like when is trash pickup and where can I pay my taxes. This can 90 to 100% be automated by AI. For something a little bit more complex, such as town services
and procedures, this can 80 to 90% be automated depending upon what the town chooses to provide the AI with. Any personal conflicts or discussions based on policy, the AI will not be able to respond and will have to be able to
refer that question to a committee member to answer. So here's some sample AI as to how this would work with a social media PL platform such as Facebook. So for example, a user asked, I heard from a neighbor that the town is planning to
build a new landfill on the edge of the Acton Arboritum. This is terrible news for the environment. Is this true? And then the AI responds, hello, we would like to address the information regarding a proposed landfill. This statement is incorrect. According to
official information from the Actton Town Manager's Office and the Department of Public Works, there are currently no plans for landfill within the town boundaries, including the near the Actton Arboritum. So what we want the AI to do is to be
able to first address the question and then provide sources as a form of proof that that can help um answer not only provide more information regarding the question but can also help refer other
members of the community that have the same question and prove that it's not pulling information from random sources. So Actton would not be the first town or major city to implement a form of AI.
The first two I mainly looked at two AIs in my research. The first being one that was implemented in New York City called My City AI and it was created to answer questions for small businesses. They had over 19,000 um questions asked and over
2,000 small businesses chose to engage um with this uh chatbot. But there because their training data wasn't controlled and the data was pulled straight from the internet, the AI started spreading misinformation. As we can see in the screenshot, it says,
"Can I evict a tenant for refusing to pay rent?" and the AI responded, "No, you cannot evict a tenant for refusing to pay rent. Evicting a tenant for this reason is not allowed." Although the statement is clearly false provided by the AI, it shows an important lesson
when implementing AI that the training data that you use actually matters. So for a town to implement this properly, good training data would have to be used. This can be seen in a positive example with a town in south south Cambridge highire district council in
the UK. Their AI was designed to help reduce the workload of the town contact center. And by monitoring their AI, they were able to receive a 93% accuracy rate, a 27% reduction in incoming calls,
and an 87% satisfaction rate. So, how this would work in a town like Actton is the AI would identify questions based off of key words and phrases that would indicate that a question is being asked and then the AI
would assign a confidence score to determine the appropriate response path. So, 80 to 100% confidence would mean that a response is automatically generated and sent out. And then 40 to 80% confident would mean that the AI
would draft a response, but a member of the committee or town would have to approve it. A 0 to 40% confidence rate means a question is routed to a community member or a staff member. All the AI generated responses would be
based exclusively off off of town approved documents and all AI interactions and responses would be logged to support transparency, quality and continuous improvement of the AI technology. The estimated cost to implement
technology like this would vary based on how deep we want the AI to go and how advanced of answers that we want the AI to provide. In initial implementation cost would be from around 6,500 to
30,000 and then there would be no matter the scenario a monthly operating cost from $40 to $350. And below the first table, the second table shows a breakdown of where the money would be allocated and to what expenses.
The range is so wide depending on how much you want the AI to be able to answer. And all these ranges are estimates based off of other comparable AI projects and the other towns that have chosen to implement this AI.
Very well done. Thank you. I'll let uh the finance committee has some questions. So on the um can you go back to the slide with the uh percentage few more and I generally agree with the
costs. Yeah, this one um the comments 90 to 100% like what models did you use to like get to these like to these percentages and and how much can be automated?
>> I scan the AI not the I scan the ACT Facebook page but I also generally that's the type of questions that a town gets asked. Okay. Got it. >> This was really well done. Beautiful
presentation. Very well >> um presented and all of that. I'm very impressed. >> Thank you so much. >> Especially going into freshman year. Um my question is whether you thought about the social backlash
against AI. Um how I I know I work in a high school and they're strongly vehemently against AI a lot of our students. Um, do you think it would be a problem for the town to get this adopted or was that not I recognize if that's
not in the >> um what you thought about >> when um other towns chose to implement this they always said if you don't agree with the response if the response isn't good enough you can always contact us. So, I think there has to be some level of if there is a problem, if you don't
like what the AI is saying, like please come contact us. Like, there has to be that transparency, but at the end of the day, it saves committee members time and I don't think any of the residents would have a problem if they're making other people's lives a bit easier. >> I don't I don't have any questions. Um,
I will say that I have read posts where the answer is written and then there's three statements made after that contradict what the answer was and like the answer comes from like a town member and then all the other comments state
something completely different. Um, so I think this is a great presentation. I'd like to give uh anybody in the audience if they would like to ask a question a chance. If they don't want to, then they don't have to. Um, Alison, >> I did think of something. Sorry, I was
busy typing. Um, >> so I'm curious. Do do you have any insight into the costs of maintaining the training data to the extent that someone has to go in and continue feeding more data into because as town website updates, I'm assuming you have to manually update data or is it
constantly updating itself? um just want to hear more about that because >> so I'm sure I'm sure that there are ways that we can automate as the town website updates the AI would automatically update as well but I think at the end of the day it's going to be what you choose
to invest in it so as you choose to invest more money into it the training data is going to be better and it's going to be more trained to be able to answer better questions >> I can answer that question so you would no you wouldn't have to manual ually
update it. You can um you'd be able to set up a loop and have it just continually update, but you would want to have a pipeline like a dev environment, then a test environment, and then the production environment. You never want it to just go and take things
and and put it through. But anyway, that's what [snorts] you >> Greg, do you have any questions? Yeah, I uh shared in chat and I don't know how I can get this to our intern but um I recently wrote an article for
search engine journal on a related topic. It turns out only 28% of Americans trust what they read in AI. most of them uh even after they get an
AI answer um will go and either try to verify it or uh at least click on one of the links in in uh increasingly when the AI tools are are providing links and they go and they uh doublech check what
they get in other words there's a very very high um lack of trust particularly in the United States more so even than in the UK. And um as as a consequence, one of the
challenges of being in the forefront of this is uh we we have a uniquely skeptical audience here in the United States. >> Yeah. Can I first? So, I think that um
that's the reason why I chose to decide to apply links within the comments is so that people can double check. But I think that can be done in their own free time whereas taking another person's time to again respond to another
comment. >> I would just like to say I think you did a fantastic job. I like the topic you chose. Um I feel like you were very well prepared and I think you did a great job with your presentation. So um I think you should be very happy with your work.
So >> thank you so much. Thank you for your time. >> Okay. So, uh, now we're going to go to we'll go back to stop back over. Lisa, do you want to give an update on from schools or >> Yeah, you segue that might work.
>> All right. Hello. Good evening, everyone. And I love how we are colorcoordinated today, Roland. This is great. We didn't plan this. [gasps] Um, [sighs] so just some quick updates. Um, obviously things are quiet on the school committee front during the summer as the
school committee typically takes a little bit of a recess during the summer, but there are a few updates. So, the next meeting isn't until August 20th, and that um was supposed to originally be a workshop, but I think it's going to be a summer business meeting. Maybe a mix of the two. Who
knows? We're not sure yet. And um prior to that, so as of right now, some of the updates are really good news for the moving um that was ahead of schedule. It actually all took a week instead of the 3 weeks that was planned for the moving
uh for the schools. Uh so it's uh that was a surprise, a happy surprise. Um, and one of the other updates I was going to provide, I know that it was already touched on in the last meeting when I was in Vermont. Um, missed all of you, but thank you for, um, doing the quick
update and we did talk about it in ALG and I got an email from Greg just go, um, requesting to go over a couple more details with that. So the teacher the contract was settled with the teachers union and um the resulting numbers for
cola for that were 2.75 and then 1.75 and 1.75 resulting for the total for those three years 6.25 uh% and so one of the um the things that I wanted to touch on or I think that was
requested to be touched on was um what Peter like mentioned in the last ALG meeting. So, this is me responding to requests I got for email. Um, he mentioned in the ALG meeting that we had last Wednesday around noon that this
would result in, well, let me scoot back for a second. It was budgeted for this year's budget um the 2.75% increase that was included as part of the budget. However, for the following year when the
projections were looked at, um there was a knowledge and understanding that um there was also going to be um another increase that was anticipated above what Prop 2 and a half would be able to handle. And what this budget essent or what this uh negotiated contract essentially does is provide a $1.1
million savings for the following fiscal year. um because um in order to help close that gap and so while that was discussed and I appreciate Peter Light providing that update in the ALG meeting
I do want to quickly follow that up u with the fact that while um you it's important to have fiscal responsibility and it was important um from the school districts from the perspective of many within the school
district to be able to settle a contract that was affordable and something within the means um of you know the district to be able to pay especially when we're thinking about the human component and thinking about um all of the teachers and how hard they work. It's really
important to state that it was very close to not being settled um as many there's it's there it is almost nearly impossible to place a value on the people who are working so hard to
educate and take care of the students in the district and for that I know that I can speak for everyone and saying how eternally grateful we are and how difficult it was you know when trying to negotiate this um to make sure that that was acknowledged that it's you know
there was a feeling amongst many that the what was negotiated may not reflect from their viewpoints the value that they have and um I just want to make sure that that is commented on and um
reflected as we're talking about savings and then we're also talking about that human component because those are both both very important things and also So talking about historically when we look at contracts that have been settled in the past um there has been a point in
time where there was a recognition of hey um the teachers deserve a lot more and you know there should be some bigger increases and you know at different years to be able to kind of reconcile that. So while this year the increases
were not what you know obviously mixed feelings and while um you know I think there were many that would have liked to have seen a larger increase um I just want to put that out there you know everyone is aware of the budget circumstances and
how difficult this has been in terms of this last year and what's ahead um with the percent increases double digit increases in healthcare and all of the other um problems that lie ahead. So, it's complicated and I just wanted to make sure that I added all of that into
what I'm updating. So, I think that was it for what we were going to mention. If there was anything else that I have forgotten, >> not Nope. That I think covers it. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate all of you and look forward to seeing you next
meeting. So, as Lisa pointed out, Greg and I attended the ALG meeting recently kind of kind of more or less it was laying the ground rules for how we kind of want to operate this year. Um, you know, we do want to
be able to go to town meeting with an approved budget in know for next year and get that out in the open and start from there. You know, we may not
agree on the outlying years because we know things do change rapidly and things can change at things that we're not aware of that could happen and things like that. So, it's we're we're looking at that. Um, my concern that I brought up at the meeting was we have unlevied
tech unlevied tax capacity from the last override and the figure in the ALG was one and then the outline the next year, so 2028 is we're in 2027 year for fiscal year
was a higher number carried forward. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. date one that you have for 2027. That would be the what it would be now, right? But it wouldn't go up. In other words,
we wouldn't have more untax levy capacity from the year that we did the override. So my thing was the ending balance or the ending amount should be the beginning amount for the following whether you use that or not use that.
But it's it's it's in your model, right? So in other words, if the town has and I'll do it on December 31st is the easiest way to explain it. June 30th, July 1, whatever you want to use. If you have one, it was what we think 1.875
Greg was the figure or 1.835, something like that. And then the next one was 1.2. Well, it can't go up. You have to have your ending balance on June 30th would be 1.8, whatever. that number should be the same on the following because we haven't used it,
right? It's it's not theoretical. John had some explanation that I still don't quite follow and I don't quite understand and I want to flush that out more. >> Can I ask a question? Yes. Are you talking about in the it was just the the ending balance was not reflected in the
beginning balance of like essentially the next day or >> Oh, okay. Well, that I'm show the number. Can you can you scroll in on that? >> I'm doing it right now. Let's get I got to zoom in. >> Hey, Scott being I know in finance as
well as um it's right there is what you're talking about. >> Yeah, but we can't see it. >> Scott, you have very young eyes. If you think >> I just got to zoom in. Hang on. Okay, everybody blindies. So 1.189629,
right? That's the FY plan of what was there. And then the next time it's it's bumped up. Well, >> it's only 11,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, so >> not much, >> but it's it's not. So my point was that
that should be consistent across there >> until it's used. >> Yeah. >> Right. It should be carried forward at that number. And that was my concern. David, if you want to try if you want to chime in, that'd be great. Your understanding of it. So, [clears throat] one clarificate.
Oh, David Martin, member of the select party live down high street. Um, one clarification is that's an input into the model, not an output of the model. And so the it's how much we are telling the model we want to not tax.
It's not a result. And and so it was 1.2 two million last year, but at the very last minute, we needed like $10,500 or something. >> Yeah. >> Uh to make the to make last year balance, >> right? >> And so we decided to take that out of
the untax levy, but we still had the goal at the ALG level to maintain 1.2 million. And so we reset it this year again as input, right? And so we could set it to anything right now. We could set it to a million. We could set it to two million. Um, whatever we wanted. So,
I think that I had actually had the exact same problem uh when it was first put in the model is I thought it was an output from the model. It is not. It is we are telling it uh the model to um not not use that amount of money.
Does that make sense now? >> No. Because un unus untacked levy capacity was what we had from that override had x number of dollars not taxed right. >> Yes. So we did then last year >> and then we took that money out last
year which would then reduce the untaxed levy capacity by that amount. >> Yes. So what what what it means being put into the model up by $10,500 this year means of the 3% increase this year we're do going up about 3% minus $10,000
>> minus a 105. >> Yes. >> Does that make sense? So it we could ALG could tell you you can bring up any number you would like to bring up at the next ALG meeting. it is an input into the model and and we decided to leave it
at 1.2. We also just made an a $10,000 exception last year, but we went back to 1.2. Um, and so you're right, we we we did tax that extra $10,000 and then because we reset it to 1.2, two. We're saying as the plan is now for next year,
we're going to go up by two two and a half% plus new growth growth minus $10,500. >> Still confusing to me, but anyway, Greg, you had a question or comment. >> Yeah. Yeah. While David is still there,
instead of him running back and forth, um there were a couple other things that were mentioned at the ALG meeting um that's worth understanding that this document is a work in progress. One of the things that the um town
manager mentioned was that we got slightly more um state aid than we had budgeted for. in FY27. On the other hand, that got offset by slightly higher than expected costs for
snow plowing. And um uh again, this particular spreadsheet does not reflect at all the uh particularly the the outy years for the um contract uh agreement that uh Lisa just mentioned. So there's
some numbers in here. that um this is the document that was shared at the meeting but there was a discussion that at the next meeting which will be September 9th um uh some of these numbers uh will be adjusted
based on things that we were learning just as the contract was signed or the the end of the fiscal year uh was being accounted for >> any any other observations from the meeting, Greg? >> Uh
yeah, most of my other observations I've actually included in a presentation for the um point of view discussion later. So um if you want, I can do it now. But I I I was um um
many many of the other things that we we we need to grapple with September 9th or in in a presentation for that part of the agenda. >> Okay. So I don't have the agenda up in front of
me. >> What's our next topic? >> I have the agenda. So, we'll be bringing ALG updates as we go through the year. And, you know, right now we're not predicting to have an override, but
hope that holds true. Is there is there anything from the multi-year? >> Yes. >> So, okay. So, why don't you give that update and then we will do the point of view. >> I will give my update. Hold on. >> Can you start speaking to this as I walk
around? This is the spreadsheet. >> This is the >> [clears throat] >> No. Yeah, I don't think there's anything to necessarily read and digest right now that that ask will be coming from us in in just a moment. But um what we did
there was a a subcommittee in 2010 I believe maybe 2010 to the 2011 and they took a >> this will have to be >> they took a look at everything and so that's where we started and wanted because one of the
big things that they did was uh you know checked what's uh what we can touch what we can't like is illegal all of those types of things. So, we thought that was a good starting point. Um, then added on some things that we knew had changed in the in the 16 years since
since this was done and want to go take another look at them. But, as you can see, it's quite a you know, it's quite a hefty a hefty lift. Um, so we were
hoping to get some some help from the finance committee in in prioritizing where uh we should focus if there is anything that that the committee thinks we should focus on and put time into first versus
something else. Yeah. And uh mainly uh a lot of these this was as Fred said this was an old study and some of you have been on this committee longer than Fred, myself and Alex and you might know the result of
what happened with these items. So that's kind of like one of the main things is this was proposed. Do you remember anything happening with this and what was the outcome and is it something we should look at again? Um,
we don't have to go through this here, but I that's why I'm I'll post this on the docu share site. I have the spreadsheet up. I handed out the the printouts to make sure everything and uh if anybody in the select board with the history has any knowledge of anything.
I'm happily take communication from them. Um, I'm just curious as to, you know, what happened with some of these suggestions. >> I do have one thing. When you have staffing, examine staffing levels, police and
fire. Examining examine overtime levels for police and fire. A lot of those overtime and things like that have direct result or direct links to staffing levels, right? If you don't have enough, you have to have, you know,
you're going to have more overtime because somebody's going to cover shifts or what have you. And also overtime can be influenced like we had the micro burst you know there's a lot of police overtime there's a lot of DPW overtime things like that town can't control those things
>> so it's like emergencies like that but >> no I understand but like >> we just took the listing broke it into three buckets like the first bucket is actionable items which is the first two pages then the second bucket was
investigate and see if you know What happened with these? They were interesting. And the third bucket, which I did not print out, was all related to the health insurance trust, which is no more. So, um, I left those off the
printouts, but it's in the schedule. So, just looking for if you if there's something you're familiar with and you know what happened with it. Um, I'm they're not listed here. It's you know for you know that we are definitely looking at them but I just wanted to
>> is when is outsourced landscaping I know they have a contractor mode I believe this is true with Mo the town common and stuff like that is that the case do you remember David sorry to make you get up I don't know specifically about the town common but we do contract for some
landscaping services I think most we do within house folks. >> Yeah, I thought the town of Col was just one of them by just an example. Greg, you had a question. >> Yeah, if if uh I I understand how things
change over time, but if if we had uh a a series of items about um uh the health insurance trust and yeah, it's gone. we should at least put a placeholder um in the spreadsheet. Uh because um
health care costs was one of the things that um at our meeting two meetings ago um Ellie Anderson mentioned was one of those issues that u um could be a potential uh budget buster.
>> Okay. that this this uh spreadsheet I'm showing now are all the items I've thought were should be excluded. Um if you feel like there's something there that should be included with additional thoughts, um I'm happy to reintegrate
it, but I if I need to make this bigger, I can. Anybody need it larger? >> Yes. >> Hang on. I got to take my my distance glasses off to look at my computer. Here we go. Those are just the probably as big as I can get it without getting too crazy. Is
that tooth still too small? All right. I don't understand what number 11 is on that implement high health insurance per governor. >> I don't know either. I just took the listing and put it into a spreadsheet.
So, I didn't spend days researching them. I just this was on I thought this was an NA so I wasn't wasting any time on it. We have other items in addition to this schedule >> that we're looking at. Much a lot more items, but we're trying to get a
baseline of what happened before and just understanding what happened with all these. Yes. >> Uh you might not know the school related things on here is because this was from when we had Actton public school. It wasn't just >> Yeah, that's why I took it out before we
were regionalized. I was like it's an NA as far as I was concerned. So, I I just put it here. All right. Um, if we're good with that, um, and any other update you want to talk
about, Fred? >> Yeah. Well, I I went down the uh a bit of a a rabbit hole and didn't look at expenses, but I I just wanted to sort of quantify for myself [sighs]
the revenue side, especially around commercial uh the commercial tax base. And there were a few things that I think, you know, I I just want to share and and this will all be up on our, you know, on
on the site, but uh one is that if we if we assume that we push our commercial tax base percent the percent of commercial uh taxes covering
the you know, revenue for the town from like about 9% to Maynard is is 10 and some change. Westford is I think 11 like close to 12 or or something like that. The um the revenue
my my estimated revenue from that is anywhere between $600 to $ 1.5 million of of additional revenue. Um, now I I think that's doable, but also what it what it tells me is that I think
it would be very it would be very tricky to grow to, you know, grow the tax base to something like that's three, four, five million more than than what we do. and and that underscores the need to
make sure we are uh looking at making sure we are we are as prudent as possible on on the expense side um knowing that the other lover is is of course the override and and putting it to a vote. Um, so anyway,
that said, I I think that that was an interesting um, uh, you know, conclusion and I think it's very very doable. Um, and I think the town is is starting to address that. The other thing that I found out was about the sewer and and I
I think that in general the two-way sewer discussion is thrown out the well at least on the internet a lot of times it's it's uh citing just the cost to actually put the infrastructure
[clears throat] in the ground and then omitting for whatever reason the cost of like actually all right where is all this going to be treated and and everything that essentially doubles the project uh cost. And so anyway, then if
you if you take that 80ish million dollars uh is is probably the average where that is and say, "Hey, we're going to uh you know, finance at at you know, approximately current levels and everything, we would have to make the
argument that uh you know, two the 2A that that investment in 2A is going to bring in you know four three to$4 million dollars a year to cover that is. So anyway, I think that uh I I know
we've talked about it the you know I think that it's probably worth it to focus on um you know industries attracting like setting oursel up for quote unquote dry
drier uh industries versus maybe doing that huge investment and taking the taking the the bet uh that we'll get the return out of it. Um, it's been a long time since I saw the presentation on the cost to build
out the sewer. Um, >> do you remember or did you see in any of what you were doing whether that had an favorable interest rate? I have a recollection of the it being state giving a very good loan for building something like that, but that might be a
different project. >> No, no, you're you're right. The state did commit. I think it was 25 million. I do have that in here someplace. Yeah. 3 to5 million annual debt service at 4% over 30 years was just the the
assumption that I used. Well, I definitely have the number and I I'm mistaken I didn't put it in here, but I can uh let you know what that is if you just give Give me a second. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
>> So, what I'm hearing from you is that if we as a town want to have different services than are currently different types of commercial businesses that are currently viable on Great Road, we would need to make a significant infrastructure commitment. significant
infrastructure >> and and that's the thing also sort of pulling the thread on that infrastructure laying the the cement pipes and and getting it getting the infrastructure to to move the waste water to a a processing plant. If you
look at only those costs then the argument is as well the states it covers about half of that cost. Well, it only covers about 20 to 25% of the of the entire thing. And then it comes with um
uh certain housing provisions and and buildout of of that as well, which just complicates it. I mean, not saying it's right or wrong. It just >> And back [clears throat] to your um statement about
commercial tax increases. I presume that was at what we would have to grow the commercial tax base to be at the current tax rate at at them at the commercial having the same tax rate as residential. You weren't talking about just increasing commercial tax rates in your calculations.
>> That's right. Yeah. No, actually growing the base like the business. Yes. That and and if that's a simple too much of a simplifying assumption, let me know. But I think it at least gets us in the right ballpark. Um, can I add one one item to this
because it's related unrelated? Um, can we talk about for two seconds the scheduling at the senior center? >> Yeah. >> Um, because for the intern presentations, I have three dates in and a couple times. Uh we had talked in the last meeting about trying to do a a
presentation there second week of August and I have three dates. I have Monday at 10 or 11. I have Tuesday at 10 or 3 and I have Thursday
at 10 or 11. I would recommend Monday at 10 or Thursday at 10:00. um because I think there's um longer windows open in the room available.
>> That's for the interns to present. >> Internation only. Yep. >> Okay. [snorts] You'd have to you would obviously have to post a meeting, etc. I wouldn't be able to attend. >> Yeah. No, I understand that. But I need to make sure that we have people that can attend that. And what what would be preferred on that week?
>> You're talking the week of August 10th. was a August 10, 11, and 13 are the dates that I have. >> How long will the meetings be? I I am >> less than two hours. >> Okay. I can make any of those days. >> Okay. So, it's one I'm going to take a
day off, whichever day it is. Greg, can you attend at least remotely? >> Uh, yeah, I could attend remotely. >> Okay. All right. So then I just need two more. >> Yeah. >> You throw it out to the committee. >> Scott, have you contacted someone at the
senior center about getting a room? >> Yes, Greg. That's why I have dates and times. >> Oh, good, good, good. Okay. >> So, you could see if you get other committee members to attend. >> No, I'm just looking at you two. What are your responses?
>> Um, Monday I'm on a flight. Thursday maybe remotely. I couldn't do it in person. >> Okay. May a Thursday maybe for you. Okay. >> I'm out of the country, so >> Oh, boy. All right. >> But I'm gonna >> Most likely no. Yeah. Yeah. Most likely no. What about you, Roland?
>> I I can't do it. At least begin back to work that week. So, >> okay. >> Has to been out for a weekend. >> All right. So, we have three. >> So, we just need um who who else is on the comm. Jason.
>> Jason. Christine. Christine, >> Alex. >> Alex and All right. I guess we'll I'll reach out to them. >> All right. >> All right. Thank you. I'll I'll >> you can if you can and you can get it to work, then you post an agenda. >> Okay. And I do need to have a meeting
next week. So, we're still meeting next week. >> Craig's going to post a meeting for that this week. Has to be in by, you know, I try to get in on Thursday. >> Yeah. It has to be in by Thursday. Yeah. >> Yeah. So >> I would recommend if we could start at 7
because there'll be presentations just to get so we're not having presentations too late at night. >> Um I this is news to me because of having missed the meeting this was discussed. Are we talking next Tuesday? >> That would be the first week of August,
right? Yeah, we were talking first and second week of August >> when we were talking. >> We normally would meet on the 11th. That's the second. But are you saying we'll meet Next week would be the fourth on the Tuesday. >> So, we would do I I guess we could do them
the 11th and at the senior center, but that'd be the same week. I was thinking of doing two different weeks. That's why I was saying the first and second week of August originally. >> That's what we >> No, I just wasn't at the meeting where it was discussed. >> Oh, sorry. That's um I would So, I know
my daughter's moving into college on the 18th. um which is the week after our meeting. So, I would think we would want either two that week or one the week before. So, the first week of August sounds good to me. >> Yeah, that's what I was originally thinking we were doing. And Brolan had
said he was out of town, so Greg was going to post the agenda >> state two. >> I'm just saying that we should start at 7:00 instead of 7:30. And that's it for my agenda items. I mean, you can start at 7. It's we started last year at 7 to do
those, too. And >> given that it's off schedule and it's summer, we should confirm that we have quorum. >> Yep. So, Greg, if you want to send out and see if anybody everybody can make it. >> Okay. So, we talking about the 11th then of August.
>> Fourth >> at seven. fourth. >> Oh, the 4th of August at 7 next week. Okay. >> And we we need a room for that. >> I believe I believe we already had this room booked.
>> I don't remember this. >> That means uh I'll have to uh chase this down tomorrow because that means the meeting would have to be posted Thursday of this week. >> Yes. >> Yep. Uh
>> okay. All right. Thanks, Greg. >> Can I rewind for just a a moment? >> 20.8 million. It's the Clean Water Revolving Fund. Clean Water State Revolving Fund. So,
it's not a it's not a grant or anything. It would be just be a state loan. [clears throat] Greg, >> you're ready to present the point of view to date. Sure. Let me >> I see the blue ones.
I will um share this with everyone um immediately after the meeting. But um I tried to as best I could take what we had discussed at our last meeting
include at least the data that we have from the ALG meeting um last week and well let's put this way we we have gaps and where you see a gap you'll see I've
highlighted it with this red exclamation point which basically says there's more data that we need to fill in here. And so what we're trying to do is make an informed decision. Um we know there's some interesting
options and some difficult choices in front of us, but more data would be helpful to make those decisions. So what do we know? Well, we know there's a structural deficit. That's that's pretty clear and it hasn't changed.
Now what has changed is we thought that structural def deficit for the next fiscal year was 3.4 million. However, um again those numbers are subject to what Lisa was talking about earlier
which is why I asked her uh to try to clarify it as best we can. we're going to get better numbers by September 9th, but um the difference of let's say trying to come up with 3.4 4 million
um to offset the need for an override. Um and the uh let's say the option of only having to come up with you know if if we could knock 1.1 million off of
that um you know it would make it um uh a more reasonable uh starting point. But we know we have some trimming to do. How much trimming we have to do is is unclear. We still know that
some things don't change as as Steve Non taught us all. Um personnel and compensation still drive about 75% of our budgets. So uh there's some things that we can do
around the edges, but by and large it involves uh people. We do have a couple of decisions in front of us. One has to do with can we avoid an operating override in fiscal 27?
If so, by doing what? If not, um how do we tackle it? And oh, by the way, at the same time, we're expecting uh DPW um building to come in. Um we're likely to have another meeting next month of the
DPW building committee. Um the target was uh $23 million. Um we we'll find out how close we get to that target. Um and then we will determine
is is that a vote for a debt exclusion. Um, and so the the thing that we'd put on the agenda and I still don't have a good answer for is can we avoid both of those things happening at the same time. Um, don't
know. Too early to tell. A lot of critical data is still out there. And again, what I'm hopeful that we can do and and based on the the ALG people in the room, we're all basically working towards the same goal. You know, if we
can get as much of those questions answered and as much of that uh data available, um then the finance committee should still be able to create a point of view document by the end of September. That's that's
sort of my my goal. Um, again, a whole lot of this is artwork. Um, I wouldn't worry about it so much. The the the key is um working on fiscal 28 that will then
hopefully reduce the starting point for fiscal 29 and and the other outy years. Um but uh we'll we'll we'll take one step at a time. But but um if there's not an override facing us in in the
first year of this model, then the question is is when does it appear in the second or third year of this model? Because sooner or later that that's going to be one of the options because there there's only two options that we
have. We can either uh cut costs and that generally means uh cutting personnel um or we can go for debt exclusions and overrides. Those those are really the two big levers that we have. Everything else um doesn't get us where we need to
go. Um, we know certain things. Um, but the actual net position may not be 3.4 million. It may be less
than that. And so again, it would be really nice to know if we're um trimming or we're cutting uh or if there's no way to avoid that. and and um we're going to have to wrestle with the operational
override issue sooner rather than later. You all know about Prop 2 and a half. I don't think Prop 2 and a half is going to change in in the next uh three to four fiscal years. So, um, you know, it
it won't go away. I don't think, um, some of the, uh, pressures on us are are are going to go away. Although frankly the the one issue that I've got here in this the uh ABRSD
assessments um I'm very thankful that the teachers union and the school department were were able to reach a contract settlement that does give us a lot more elbow room
even if it doesn't close all of the gap that we need to close. They they certainly did their hard part in in getting us into a position where where we may be able to um to get where we
want to go. Again, a lot of data. One of the things that was mentioned at the ALG meeting that I want to alert everyone here to is um there is a question of whether the high school roof
is a multi-million dollar capital project or not. Um, again, we need to get that data um before we have uh um a a full list of the projects that we we
may need to sequence in some way. Um uh so that's a that's an outstanding data point. Um we still need to figure out health care [laughter] cost trends. if the
current spreadsheet was that we can keep them in the six to 7% range. Um I don't know if that's wishful thinking or that's prudent thinking or but that's gut right now. Um and so there are other things in here
that will impact our final decision that we don't know yet. Um, one of the things that I've uh talked to uh my colleagues on the school committee about doing is working to make sure that we can agree on a list of
comparable districts. Um, more often than not, I've seen at lots of town meetings that we compare ourselves to conquer Carlile or Lincoln Sudbury. But then the question is do we compare ourselves to all regional school
systems? There are 38 of them in the state. Um is that our comparable set or is it the communities closest around us? I mean um Maynard doesn't have a regional school
district. So, do we compare ourselves to them because they're next door or to Littleton or to um you know, other communities? Um we really want to work that out because if we're going to go to
uh the town, it's one thing to say, you know, we've got great schools, okay, but aren't there other great schools in the state? And if so, what have we done to make sure that you know ours are are
um as good as possible given our financial constraints? And that's that is the challenge. Um I would really really really hope that we can figure out a way to avoid having
to do a debt exclusion and an operational override in the same year. that I think is prudent. I hear no public appetite for saying, "Oh, sure. We could just, you know, have two votes
and no problem." That's that's that's the needle I hope we can figure out how to thread it. It turns out, I think the rest of uh the community is also hopeful uh at this point that we can figure out
a way too. So, it's going to require us to um make some decisions earlier than we might normally want to, but we're going to need to make them um so that we understand that we can get to next April
um uh with a consensus and a strategy. Um it's it is a narrow needle to thread and I don't thread needles so I'm only speaking metaphorically
but um um the alternatives um don't look better um the one um alternative that we may want to talk about and I want to thank Fred for getting me this information after our last meeting.
Marble had used a mechanism for its override um about a month ago. They had not passed an override in over 20 years. And they had one passed using
a u tiered structure. So you could vote for a restore budget or a stabilized budget or an invest budget. and using that tiered structure um were able to actually um uh pass an override for the
first time in a long time. One of the things that I also then learned from an Actton resident is that oh yeah by the way um we used that oursel in Actton um back in 2005
we had a tiered structure and um you know as as I think um Christie mentioned at our last meeting um when you have a tiered structure some pass some failed but you know you get
through. So, one of the things that um I'm hopeful that we can discuss, think about consider the trade-offs, pros and cons is is that uh a viable alternative if we get stuck in a corner. Obviously,
if we can avoid an override, then this uh becomes a moot part of the conversation. But um uh if if we get backed into a position where something happens and and and by the way, I'm not trying
to invent stuff, but one of the things that was also brought to my attention is that on the November ballot, question five
is uh one that would uh limit the state's ability to raise revenue. venue and if it were to pass, um, we need to understand what impact that would have on local aid. Uh,
because local aid gets funded out of the state budget. Uh, and and so, uh, we I thought there had been a question, but it had been knocked off by the state uh, Supreme Judicial Court. It turns out there were two questions uh and one got
through and one didn't. But the one that is still there is question five. And I think all of us are going to want to do some homework on it to understand uh what impact it would have on state revenue which is likely to have some
impact uh if if enacted on uh local aid which is part of our model at the end of the day. Um, lots of stuff moving around. Um, lots of numbers we still have to pull together. Um and so I would
say at this point it is premature to um make any decisions or recommendations, but we have identified the eight pieces of key information we're going to want to have by early September
so that we're in a position to make an informed decision by late September on what our point of view is uh for fiscal on 28. One of those is u the state aid update and we have the uh state senator and two
state representatives have agreed to join us for our September 1st meeting to talk about uh that issue. Um we're going to have uh update on the spending numbers and the position
figures the uh the numbers that were discussed but the spreadsheet should get adjusted to uh we will at that point have certified reserve balances uh right now we have an idea of what they look like but it it
would be nice to actually have the certification. um by again early September we will have an update on the DPW facility estimated cost that'll be crucial to understanding um the scope of what we're dealing with
um etc etc etc. So all of this means that um things are happening. But um we're not in a position yet to say oh
well the options are obvious. They're not. They are not. But we do know the the scope of the problems that we've got to uh wrestle with. And the challenge is again I hate to quote Steve Non too often but he did have a key influence on
at least my thinking. He he he used to tell me that a $2 million deficit going into the budget year was normal and we could always figure a way to get through 2 million. Well, we got a $3.4 million number and that makes it a little harder. But again,
thanks to the hard work of the school committee and the teachers union, we may be closer to the 2 million number than um it looked like a week or two ago. And that means
we may we may figure a way through this. Hold on a sec, Greg. Remember we talked about the last one, our last main that we're going to add in the >> slide that showed um the the debt slide that we have. >> So we need to we need to resurrect that
and put that in there. So that will show >> you know and then we also have projections if >> you won't be able to update it exactly 100% but it'll be if we did a DPW building in this year type of thing. So, all right. You go ahead. >> I I recall that Christine asked for that
if I recall. Yes. >> Yeah, we we need that. Um, >> do you want feedback on how slides look or should that be for later? >> Oh, no. Any feedback is the revenues. >> The revenue and expenses slide was very
distracting to me because I couldn't figure it out and I found myself looking at it trying to figure it out. um and not paying attention to you. So um something different there would be helpful for brands like mine. >> Okay. >> Um on the more
>> welcome welcome feedback >> on the idea of the size gap weap um size sorry jump topics size gap that we can reasonably expect to close in ALG
right now. I have concerns that we've had so many years of cuts at the school that they don't have as much room to cut anything out as we have in in like generally in my tenure on the committee. So I even though we've got it
down to a number that we in our collective experience have been able to handle, I don't know whether that's a reasonable size for right now. Another thing I just thought of when when Greg was speaking, we think and we're talking about those is we need to look at uh
committee assignments, school committee and uh select board primarily and who's going to be able to do those or you know piggyback one person does it one week, one does the other, whatever. Um anyway, but good job. You know, keep going with
it. Um we definitely need to get those debt slides in there. Scott, do you have any comments? Uh, not at this time. >> Fred Harelson, go ahead.
I presume we want to have more discussion about it, but I think it would be helpful to include what Fred was talking about earlier about the difficulties of um, the fact that simply increasing our commercial base isn't a silver bullet.
ignoring the fact that any change would take a while to happen. It's not it would need to be a real significant change is what I got out of that to actually and um getting there relative to what we are seeing in our neighbors who have much seemingly larger commercial bases that that would be
quite hard for us to do. I think that would be good to put that out in the public discussion because I know it's something that I hear when I talk to other people. If Greg could add a slide indicating that I mean I do notice you know
McGovern doing over Nog what's the tax is there a tax increase there from what was there previous you know that type of thing I mean we don't know that not on that um and also the buildout on the apartment complex on Powdermill Road
does that is that going to have an impact on the tax base and if so what are we looking at I I guess those are questions that we don't know the answer to, >> but you know, that's the type of thing in select. >> The other piece the other piece that we
can we can add in there, the uh economic development director spoke to the uh select board at their last meeting and outlined uh some of the plans she has um for filling some of I think it was at least five vacant storefronts. Um things
that could be done in the short term. Um uh again, all of that is dependent on um commercial owners wanting to start a business or move a business here or uh locate here. Um I
attended the ribbon cutting at Aldi uh last Thursday and it's nice to see um that shopping center have its anchor store back or a anchor store back. Um, and I went the following day after the
ribbon cutting because there was a a line of about a hundred people for the ribbon cutting, but I went the following day just to see and that it was full of traffic. There were there were people shopping there. So, um, you know, that plugs one of the holes that that has
been vacant for the past year or more. >> I didn't even know that was open, so that's good to know. Um >> well then the one thing you got to figure out is how to stick the quarter in their uh shopping cart
to get the cart. By the way, when you put the cart back, you get the quarter back out. So it's just a way of encouraging people to return the cart that they took. That was the one um technical challenge that I had to overcome to to do my due
diligence to figure out what to do with a quarter. And you got to have a quarter in your pocket. Not not everyone walks around with quarters in their pocket anymore. >> Very true. 000. >> Um, I just had a thought, Greg, just in
talking about the comparable schools as well as growing the commercial tax base and the sewers or the lack thereof. Are there would there be a way to look for comparable school districts that also do
not have municipal sewer covering, [clears throat] you know, the majority of the town like because I think that this is important. they have the same constraints that we've been discussing here. Um, and I just it's a very strange set of variables to put in a spreadsheet, but
if we can if we can get that information be really interesting to see. >> Yeah. One of one of the interesting challenges that you've just um uh sort of highlighted is um we basically have two sets of comparables. one is for our
schools because not everybody has a regional school system but 38 communities or 38 pairs of communities do. Um and then you have on the municipal side not everybody has um you
know 10% commercial 90% residential. Um, so one of the things that I'm trying to get my arms around is do we need two sets of comparables or can we find one? >> Thanks, Greg.
What's our next agenda? Well, I I I did bring up the confirmation of the dates that that we have the meetings. Uh we have we have this room on August 11th. Um so that was
one thing I brought up. Uh let's see. Next agenda item is um point of liaison reports and then adjourn. Are there >> are there any liaison reports at this time?
>> Then I'll accept a motion. >> Uh I move to adjourn. >> Second. >> Okay, we'll do this by roll call. Roll call. Greg >> I. >> Scott I. >> Fred I.
>> Christie I. >> Alison I. >> And I'm an I. We'rejourned. Thank you, Greg.