Good evening. Uh there's a joint meeting of the commissioner board of selectmen and the finance committee to discuss old colonies. We've had a series of meetings. Um there's still some questions um that members of the finance committee wanted to have answered prior
to the November 18th vote. So with that said, is there a motion to open up the joint meeting of board select and the finance committee? So move second. All those in favor. >> Sec. >> Yes. Uh thank you for everyone for
coming tonight. on the finance committee uh requested this third and final meeting before the vote next Tuesday because we felt it was important for our residents uh to get more information out there for everyone uh and to answer any questions that are, you know, unanswered
basically. I mean, I've seen some commentary on social media and there just there seems to be some inaccuracies. So hopefully with today's meeting, we can answer a lot of those and it'll help all you out when you make a decision. So that being said, let's go have a motion to open the finance
committee and more. >> Motion. >> All in favor? >> I um we'll turn it over to the old colony crew. Um but there's some folks in the audience who may not know us. We'll just we'll just go around the horn and introduce ourselves.
>> Selecting Kevin Gaspel, David Ward, board of selectman Hankley, >> Mike Bush, chairman of the finance committee. >> Ethan, finance committee. >> Lisa Tomlinson, finance committee. Eric Chu, finance committee. Eric McGlin, finance committee. >> Bob St. Jeene, finance committee.
>> Sarah Griffith. I'm the business manager for Old Colony. I'm >> Shirley B. I'm a school committee member from Rochester and I'm currently serving as the chair of the building. >> Nick Hall with PMA Consultants without honors project.
>> Jack, also PMA Consultants. >> Mark Adrian, also PMA. Malter Heartley also with PMA. >> Right. Great. We'll turn it over to Aaron. >> Great. Thank you, David. Uh, our plan today was to share a quick overview and video so that anybody can
>> grab the mic. Aaron, I think the video. >> Our plan today is to share a quick video overview for anybody who has not yet seen anformational video. It's about an 11 minute debrief on the project. We'll follow that up with an update on the
cost of uh repair. We'll then speak to the operating budget and then we would open the floor to Q&A. So, we'll start with the video. Old Colony is not just an educational institution for our five member towns. We're a partner in service in labor
market solution and a destination for many to take advantage of a community focused outreach that happens each and every day. Old Colony students have been responsible for projects like the construction of the COA shed and installation of electric car stations in a Kushnet, the Carver Junior Senior High
concession stand, construction of Lon Pond Lodge in Ted Williams Park in Lakeville, renovation of the American Legion, Holy Ghost Grounds and Dunie Gardens in Matapoet, and construction of the COA shed, Orchet Plum Library, and the upcoming addition to the Rochester Council on Aging to name only a few.
With the addition of a plumbing and HVAC program, Old Colony will become a fully operational construction outfit with direct additional benefit for our communities and taxpayers. In this video, we'll show the opportunity we have to secure more than $125 million in state funds through the
MSBA to fund the project. We'll review how we got here by reviewing the steps we've completed in the MSBA process. And we'll detail the project scope and budget for the new high school, including the amount that would be financed on our local tax rules. We'll detail the project scope and budget for
the new high school, including the amount that would be financed on our local tax rules. And we'll explain a key step in the MSBA process, community authorization by our five member towns. Old Colony and its member communities
have a rare opportunity to fund a new vocational technical high school with the MSBA. The MSBA is a state authority that helps local school districts pay for the design and construction of schools. For every dollar spent, one penny of our state sales tax goes to the
MSBA, and it's funded more than 17 billion in statewide school construction since 2004. The program is highly competitive. Only about 15% of school districts that apply are accepted into the program each year. Old Colony was accepted into the program in March 2022
and has spent the past three years meeting MSBA requirements, hiring a project team, and gathering public feedback. The MSBA process is rigorous, but ensures that our project not only meets the highest standards in 21st century vocational technical education in the most fiscally responsible
solution. The payoff for this work is significant. By completing the MSBA process, Old Colony can have about 55% of its eligible costs reimbursed by the MSBA and another 5.7% paid through incentive points for maintenance, efficiency, and sustainability.
Meanwhile, the cost of repair and renovation of the existing 50-year-old building with no additional programming and no expanded enrollment estimates to more than $130 million on longer timelines and with no reimbursement from
the MSBA. Here's how the Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School got to where we will ask our communities for authorization in special elections in our five towns on November 18th. The school was selected into the highly competitive MSBA core program in
March 2022 because the existing school building has reached the end of its useful life. Opened in 1975, the building celebrated its 50th year in service this year. And despite incredible maintenance efforts to keep the building in good working condition, the building's size, design, and space
no longer serves the needs associated with a 21st century vocational education. With significant space constraints for existing programs that do not match enrollment demand, do not provide room for vital student supports, nor room to expand vocational offerings like HVAC, plumbing, and dental
assisting, which are in high demand in our communities. To begin the process, Old Colony School Building Committee, consisting of school and town leaders and resident volunteers, conducted a feasibility study, hired a project team, which includes an owner's project manager and
architectural design firm, and embarked on a comprehensive effort to hear from the community throughformational sessions, focus groups, and most importantly, an educational visioning process where anyone in our communities, including our students, could help capture the needs a new old colony
should serve. Our school building committee took all of this feedback to create an educational plan which directed the design team to create several options of renovation, addition, and replacement of the high school. The project team presented 40 different scenarios to evaluate which the school
building committee evaluated with a detailed scoring system to identify the most financially responsible solution which supports Old Colony's long-term educational goals. The school building committee identified eight options for the project team to develop further, including various options of repair,
renovation, addition, and new construction. And in December 2024, the school building committee selected a new construction option for 776 students as its preferred option to build an entirely new building adjacent to the
existing school. Here's how our design team took months of planning, public feedback, and guidance from our school building committee to design and scope out every inch of a new Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School. The new two-story building will measure approximately 270,000 square ft
located adjacent to the existing school building. This minimizes disruption to school activities during the construction period and saves time, money, and resources that a phased in construction would require. The building is laid out in four main wings, arrayed around a central hub, the heart of the
school. The gymnasium anchors the health and wellness wing, which will also house new science labs, our health careers program, and a new dental assisting program on the second floor. The wing south and west converges with this one to provide a complete offering of
publicly accessible spaces including the auditorium and cafeteria hubbed with the culinary program along with cosmetology and business on the first floor with graphics, computer science, architecture and engineering and electronics on the second floor in close proximity to the
media center. on the opposite side of the site layout. Automotive, machine and tool, and metal fabrication are located in the southeast wing and share a working courtyard with their neighboring wing to the north, which hosts the construction cluster, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and carpentry. Academic
classrooms are located throughout, including a dedicated music space, and room for breakout sessions, counseling, and integrated special education. With room for 776 students, this expanded capacity provides a more equitable way to meet demand for in- demand vocational
programs and meets the key educational goals and objectives reflected from our communities through visioning and our school building committee's educational plan. Remoting, personalization, connection, and ownership, a culture of learning. Vocational learning that happens in
clusters. School as a community resource. a secure and welcoming place, adaptability and sustainability in design, and both indoor and outdoor learning. Here's the project scope and budget for
a new Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School under the MSBA process. The total project budget is approximately $288.7 million. This includes careful contingency planning for rising costs and demolition of the existing building,
which will be converted into additional parking space. With community authorization, the MSBA would contribute about $129 million to this budget, or about 60.5% of eligible project costs. In addition to Old Colony's base
reimbursement rate from the MSBA, the project will get another $11 million in mass save rebates and IRA tax credits, leaving about $148 million to be financed on the local tax roles of our member communities distributed between the towns based on annual enrollment
data. Here's how we propose to pay for our portion. A debt exclusion, which means the tax increase is temporary and expires once the bond is paid off. a 30-year bond using a conservative interest rate of 4%. This is a fixed amount until the bond is repaid. You can
see the average single family assessed home value in each of our five towns to see the average annual tax impact or use the tax impact calculator on our project website to input your home's value and estimated tax impact.
The MSBA process only moves forward with community authorization from our five towns. However, the results are not five separate elections. This is one aggregated vote where a simple majority would approve the project and its funding. Community authorization moves
the high school project to the next phase, a year of design, development, and construction documentation, then bidding and construction with the goal of cutting the ribbon and occupying the new school in the fall of 2029. The MSBA process ends without community
authorization. It may only schedule another vote with the MSBA's approval. Otherwise, the MSBA's involvement would cease and any future MSBA involvement on a future project or repair effort would require the filing of a new statement of interest by old colony. We would go back
to the beginning of the process if and when the MSBA accepts us back into the program, which is historically a 5 to 10year process. Without the MSBA, Old Colony will have to address the repair and renovation of the vocational technical high school through its regular capital improvement process,
where taxpayers in our five communities pay the full cost without state assistance. We estimate base repair and code improvements to the existing high school at $134.3 million. 100% of these expenses would have to be paid with local tax dollars. The cost of
maintaining the school would continue to rise and would not address any of the existing space issues at the school, nor provide capacity to open new vocational programs. At Old Colony, our project vision for a new high school is to foster opportunities for integrated vocational
and academic learning in a modernized facility that's designed to maximize student voice, independence, and exploration. We've compiled every design detail and document as well as a tax impact calculator for you to review on our project website. That's oldc
colonybuildingpro.com. So, one of the questions that arose recently online and through the pincom was around what are the implications of a no vote and what are the costs associated with that. One of the things I've asked um Chad Kitten to speak to is
code triggers and also the differential between what happens with a a vote for uh in favor of a new high school and then a vote if there's a no in terms of the aggregate. So I'll turn it over to Janie to talk about triggers and also the difference between
the two outcomes. >> Thank you. Um so the slide that you have up here, I think this group has seen this particular slide before. This is really the choice on November 18th. Either we move forward with the MSBA or um go at it without the MSBA. Uh that building may have another couple years,
may have five years, may have 10 years. Uh really nobody knows exactly when there's going to be a major issue in the building. Like the we know the understood plumbing is starting to fail. If that lets go, that's a major issue and we're going to be thrown right into code repairs. Um what those triggers are
based on is the building's assessed value. Uh so this is the current property card. The assessed value is just over $17 million. Uh so there are a number of code triggers. The first code trigger that you hit that sort of starts that chain
reaction is uh right 521 CMR. Uh so that's the accessibility code Massachusetts regulation. Uh and what that says is that any renovation costing 30% or more than the assessed value that we just saw on the prior
screen on the bottom of that screen $5.1 million triggers full compliance with 521 CMR. uh doesn't sound too bad until you really start to think about what compliance with 521 CMR entails. Um it's accessibility. So you're talking things
like wheelchair turning radius. So bathrooms uh in that building, you saw the pictures in a prior presentation, are very very small. There is no wheelchair turning radius. So when you need to expand that bathroom, you're taking space away from whatever adjacent space is if you're even allowed to move
that wall and it's not loadbearing. Um that's one of the issues. push pulls on the doors. Um, a whole host of accessibility problems uh that you would need to address in that building that are really going to take their already constrained footprint and constrain it even more as you're going to lose real estate within that
building in order to address those 521 CMR uh issues there. Um, beyond that, so once you uh impact more than 50% of the floor area or 33% of the floor area, you trigger 148 CMR, which is uh the requirement for fire protection. There are no sprinklers in that building right
now. It's also served by a single private well. You cannot push enough water from a private well into the fire protection system. So that means you're looking at a system underground uh roughly 40,000 gallons. You need a fire pump. You need the power service to feed
that fire pump. Uh structural upgrades are another big challenge. Um when that building was designed, shear and seismic loads uh and snow loads are not what they are today. Uh so in order to bring that building up to those current codes under 780 CLR, you're looking at things
like uh seismic clips, you're looking at bracing. So when you see giant structural lexes going through a space, uh you don't necessarily have full control over where that those things land. It's it's by the structural engineers calculations. If that lands in the middle of a shop, you just cost
yourself a little more real estate. Uh dealing with snow loads. I mean, this is something that we have done on MSBA projects in the past. Uh, typically what that means, we did one in Rochester. It was sistering up every single joist in the area. Uh, Somerville High School, it was actually a replacement of the joist. That was a newer building. That was an
80s building. A structural engineer said rather than sistering, you're going to pull the joist out one at a time, stabilize the building and swap it out with a joist that meets uh the current snow loads requirements. Um, so that that is the code trigger kind of chain
reaction that happens. It all starts with 521 CMR when you hit that $5 million and 30% of assessed and you start to roll into some of the other ones. >> A question on the triggers. >> Is that based on a single issue or can it is it an aggregate issue over a certain time period?
>> It's over a threeyear period. So, you can't you can't have improvements or repairs over 33% of the 17 million assessed value in a three-year period. >> Correct. >> So, that that would be the challenge on
the repair. We get the question all the time. It makes sense. It's a good question. Why can't we just repair problems as they come up at some point? I mean, again, the water tank, are you going to trigger it? Probably not. uh when you're chasing underground under the slab plumbing, you're probably going to trigger at that point cuz that is one
of those things that just tends to to spiral. Um we also looked because we were getting the question a lot. Uh so code triggers aside, let's pretend 521 CMR and 780 CMR don't exist. Uh would it
make sense at that point? So it's not a viable solution because it doesn't follow the regulations. You'd be ignoring those triggers. So, we said, "Okay, let's run the numbers. Let's say we got a repair estimate, $134 million in today's money to bring that entire
building up to current codes and standards." Uh, so we said, "Okay, let's uh let's run a scenario where we do 10% of that work every 5 years and find out where the break even is. How far in the future do you go doing 10% every five years before you have now spent more
than you would have spent on a new building or the bond of the new building?" Uh so you can see that graph up here. So the the curved line, the curved red line is that repair cost. Those are the the five-year intervals. Um we have an escalator in here that's 4% annual. That's right around what the
national is. Uh in Massachusetts, especially in the K through2 MSBA market, the number is more than double that. If you go back, the MSBA has lots of data on this. So you can go back to 2007 and see their cost per square foot. Um we've really been chasing these numbers with each project year by year.
And it's I mean at some point hopefully it levels off but uh it has not in the past and we see no signs of that uh at the moment in the future. So the green line that you see there is uh the district share or replacement of that building. So those are level funded debt
over a 30-year period that add up to the $148 million which is the value after IRA 2022 and mass save rebates. Uh so if you look 30 years out in the future, so 20 56 or so and say, okay, that 10% chunks doing every five years, how much
did you spend by the time you got to the point where your new building would have been paid off 30 years in the future? And the answer to that was $182 million. And at that point, you've only addressed 70% of your building's needs. You still have 30% of what's known today. This is 30 years in the future. So you're going
to have more things pop up that compound onto that. Uh but based on what we know today, you'll still have 30% of your needs unressed 30 years in the future and you'll have spent 182 million for a district share versus 147 148 million with the MSBA support.
Uh I think that's uh open up to any questions. That's the uh the repair component and the trigger component. A lot of information, so happy to answer any questions you have. the uh the fixed debt from the debt exclusion that's going to be a fluid number,
correct? Based on student enrollment per per year, town by town. Yes. So the the school would pull bonds. So they'll pull a 30-year bonds and then the uh district assessment for each of the five member communities would vary based on actual enrollment over that period. That's recalculated every year. So whatever the
principal interest payment is for that year, it gets recalculated based on the current. Do we have any predictive numbers as far as what to what we can expect for enrollment for our town? Because I mean we we send most of the kids now. Um 30 I think it's 35%. So
doc, I can tell you that currently I'm sorry, >> currently a Kushnet has over 200 students enrolled at Old Colony with the lottery and the allocations in a town by town um lottery that will come forward
using historical and predictive data. I would foresee that the accushnet population will be between 40 and 50 students a year. If I had to predict that I would anticipate between 40 and 50 students per year. So that could be a small decrease.
>> That's per class. Correct. >> Yep. Per year. Per class. >> This is not 50 students all total. >> Right. So the aggregate would be between 160 and 200 students somewhere in that ballpark. Uh, but I would predict that's what we would be looking at, which is
somewhat close to where we're currently at, but it could be a small decrease because the predictive data for our different towns is indicative of the fact that Lakeville currently has predictive data in terms of the aggregate proportion of the eighth grade
class that is higher than the data from the other towns. That's just the reality. Follow up to that. Um I believe last year your FY26 total operating expenses were around 15 million. Is that correct? >> No.
>> What could you anticipate what your FY30 total operating expenses would look like? >> Let me hand the mic back to Chad because we went through an exercise that we think would be helpful. >> Um so what you see up here, these numbers are spell. Oh, there we go. Um these numbers are the after revenue. So
after chapter 70 and chapter 71 state aid. Um so district's operating costs were 15. Uh but they had state aid that reduced the burden to each of the the member communities. Uh so FY26 the operating budget uh was around $9.9 million after revenue. So chapter 70
chapter 718. um we forecasted that out um through FY30, which is the completion of the new building, but it's not really the best point to look at because they're not at full enrollment. Uh when they go from 555 today to 776 in the future, it's
going to be one class at a time. So, it's going to be broken out into one quarter spread over four years. So you can see those numbers in the bottom here. Starting at uh FY31 is the first freshman incoming class 32 33 and then by FY34 you're at your full 776 capacity. Um so
we ran those numbers with and without aid. When we ran those numbers uh before state aid, it translated to a 14.78% uh increase over the status quo condition. When we ran the numbers with aid, the increase dropped to 6.04%.
Um, so the other piece of this that is, uh, it's not very easy to explain because we're trying to compare tomorrow's dollars against today's. Uh, so today we're $9.9 million. But even if nothing happens, if nothing is expanded
or the school stays exactly as it is, we know from past history, you're looking at roughly 3% annual increase. So we did map that out in the red bars and we said, okay, 3% annual through FY34, what does that equal? And then we took the budget projection that came from the school's business office and put those
two side by side. So if you go to the far right of this right here, that 6.04% delta is that side by side. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. I mean, just to to follow up with that, I believe last year's increase was
around 4%. Is that correct? >> Close close to four. just under it was just under 3.73 and then minus if you take away the insurance which was a big piece of that because we pay our own insurance that's a really important piece to consider.
So you had So it was about a $400,000 increase to our annual assessment. And that's where I'm going with this is because as a as a finance committee person. My main concern is not just with the debt exclusion, which is the big headline, right? It's it's more about
for us on the finance committee operating the annual operating expenses and how that's going to impact all of our budgets in town. Um, and it's it's trouble. It's troublesome. I'm just going to be honest. It's it's it's very worrisome for me as far as where are we
going to get this extra money um to fund all this. Um la last year was very tight. The year before that was this coming year is going to be tight again. Um I'm just afraid that we're going to get to the point where two years from now, let's say this passes, two years from
now, we're going to be asking have to ask our residents for a Proposition 2 and a half tax override to fund our operational budget. And that's very concerning to me. Um, and this is I'm putting this all out there because this is reality. I mean, this could potentially happen. We don't know if
it's going to, but uh, realistically, I mean it's we're faced next year with a potential of a two to $300,000 increase in health insurance, 100,000 increase in pensions. Um, >> this is a function of the accush
overall. So, if you want us to speak to that, we could. And the other the other thing is we're our main revenue source comes from our property tax owners. You know, we're 88% dependent on our property tax owners and I'm just concerned that we might put
too much on the backs of them. Um so if I can ask a a followup because Dr. Buché's question is based on the concern with financing a new school. But if we look at the fact that we're
going to have increased cost regardless because the repairs are going to kick in and best case scenario is we don't hit one of those triggers but realistically one of those triggers is going to hit which is going to precipitate a huge demand for repair
that needs to get done in order for the school to be able to stay open period. So, if we're sitting looking at that and we're looking at what the costs are and best case scenario, you guys mapped it out and it isn't too long that's out
there, we're going to have increased tax demands regardless of whether or not we vote in a new school. So then the question that comes up to me is if we're looking at an roughly an $8 million difference in the overall cost
today for doing a new school versus the best case scenario for repair costs. That almost seems like a no-brainer to me because the school, the new building, can be covered not only with state aid,
but with a bond where if we wait and we deal with actual repair costs that are in there, now we're looking at Prop 2 and a half overrides just to take care of a repair or we're gutting our town resources if that even covers the cost
that the school's going to run. So, uh, well, go ahead. >> Yeah. So, that's incorrect. If if you did a repair, if if the new school failed and you did a repair, no matter
what, the school would have to look at whatever the repair cost is. And I think this gentleman said something about, you know, $5 million over how many years did you say you can't exceed? >> So, you can do $4 million every three years and that would be okay. >> It's a Yeah, it is a rolling three years. So it would be every role in
three years. So if you did if you did a if the school said, "Hey, if this all fails from all five municipalities, if it fails and the school says we now need $4 million to do XYZ," then we would go for a debt exclusion, not a Prop 2 and a half override,
>> right? But we run the same thing. >> You would do a debt exclusion regardless. >> The override that Mr. Buché is talking about is what I talked about in the September 9th meeting. It's an automatic force override because of the operating budget. But regardless of anything that
you do, you would have to do a debt exclusion, the 4 million bucks over 5 10 years, and then if you happen to have that reason for another 4 million bucks in year four or five to do it again, you'd be faced with that again before your first one's paid off. So you'd have
to do that that bond rating coming across right now. Currently, as it exists, if it's $150 million total for the school, a new school, we're a third of the school with $50 million. I ran the numbers on that. The town of Kushner would pay back $36 million in interest
on that $50 million over the 30 years based on their projection of 4% 30 years. And I did that through our bonding company. So, it's $86 million. So, I mean there's you they can't sit here, I can't sit here, nobody can sit
here and say we're getting a new school. I mean, I think if the vote fails from the five district towns, I think that's a conversation that all five member towns are going to go back to the table with Oak Colony and say, "What is it that's your immediate needs and how much
does that cost?" Right? And then the only smart way to go about doing that is to stay below that parameter of the every three years and the 5 million bucks, whatever it may be, and you just head out the the big punch list that you would need to do to keep the school afloat, right? That's the only other
option you have other than wait the five years or 10 years, whatever. Mr. Blancy, you said something if it we don't get the MSBA this time. You have to wait. There's a waiting period of at least five years to go back >> for a refunding for MSBA to reconsider. >> Yeah. So, so we've seen we've seen
historically when schools um don't receive their funding authorization in the MSBA pipeline, the MSBA will generally move that remove that school from the pipeline, free up those funds for the next community in need. Uh this past year there were over 120 statements of interest from the MSBA. Uh so your
chances of getting back in are roughly 15%. The other catch with the MSBA as Carver saw um with their first go around with their project if and when you do get the reinvite in Carver's case I think it was seven years uh from the time they were removed uh the MSBA does
not participate in the feasibility study cost for that second time. So as of right now they've been reimbursing old colony for all the feasibility for carver when they had to do it again it was 100% on the district. Uh so that would certainly be something to uh contend with the second time around.
>> Mike, and I get as a finance chair, you're you're asking all the right questions, but I think, you know, it's highly speculative to just assume that um a Proposition 2 and a half override is needed to fund a budget down the
road, right? Well, it's an option. The other option of the finance committee and the town leaders who happen to be in that seat in 2030 or 2031 is to examine what services are being provided to the residents. Right? We've got a K through8
school district. So it' be an examination of that school budget or other services. I think sometimes we throw around Proposition 2 and a half override is again highly speculative. there's a process to just assume that that's the
the direction that the town will go in. >> The date still it still worries me because last year we started off the budget process with about $800,000 to work with and you saw where our our schools started off at, right? And they they had to
reduce significantly. So our our elementary and middle schools take up 60% of our of our overall town's budget. So that doesn't leave much else for all the other town departments, police, fire, EMS. I mean, we have to think about all those other departments in
town, not not just our school. But but I I think Mike, the greater conversation then becomes as a Kushner looking at as looking at a K through 12 district. I mean, I'm looking at Pete's tattoo which says nomad.
>> Yeah. >> Our kids are nomads, right? Like they don't have a home. they, you know, tuition them out to Faven. We've got old, we're fortunate that we have Old Colony, some off to New Bedford, and there's an expense to that. It's generational, right? And so, while it may might make good business sense, but
at some point, I think the town is going to have to really examine how we're approaching 9 through 12. Um, and that conversation, I think, is going to be a larger one that needs to be that needs to happen. >> I agree. This project may be the catalyst for that, but you know, I I got
calls all weekend long from parents who are rightfully very concerned that they don't know where their kids are going to be going to school. Eighth grade parents who have no idea where their kids are going to be going to school next year. >> David, can I just real quick? >> Let me just want to finish. I just want to make my point. The one constant that
I've heard is they're like, you know what, at least I know my kids can go to OC, right? And so I just think there's a a larger conversation that needs to needs to take place as a town on how we approach K through 12. >> Dave, can I ask a quick question? What
does the lottery do to affect our chances of our kids getting in? Like what what was the percentage? I know my son tells me almost everyone went to OC, but how many kids in a cushion graduated 8th grade? What number went to you? So the last three years the average number of students who attended Old
Colos was 55 students >> each year. >> Yeah. >> Out of a total of how many? >> Uh the class sizes varied. I just have I happen to have the average for the last three years because >> I think it's right around 100 110. I know my my kids are juniors. Their class
was 110. >> Some classes have been as small as 93. >> Now with the lottery though, what does that do to our >> That number will drop. We don't have a high school though. What happened? >> Correct. So, so based on the formula created, the predictive and the
historical, I would anticipate that that number will be reduced until there's an opportunity to open the door to more students because of the historical and predictive data combined. There's pros and cons to that. The cons are we would like to be able to service as many
students as possible, right? That's real. um for the town where there's a fiscal challenge. It costs less money for the town if there are fewer students attending, but that that means less money for old colony. It doesn't mean that you're not
paying for students to attend somewhere. Do you know what I mean? It's like a catch 22 because they are going somewhere. And to Pete's point, when he spoke earlier, first of all, there's no wrong answers. Everybody at the table is making very valid points. There's not a wrong answer here. It's just there's
different ways of viewing this. I have a daughter who's 17 and I was talking to Pete outside. Um she to Eric knows Eric and Pete came over and started speaking with us, right? Um but I have a daughter who's 17. She said, "Dad, I want to buy a car. It's $4,500. It has 220,000 miles
on it." And I shook my head. I said, "I found you a minivan that has 90,000 90,000 miles on it and it's $4,500." And she said, "I don't want to drive a minivan. And I said to her, "The minivan will
last longer. It's a better investment." Pete's point is is exactly the point I just made, and that is the school's 50 years old. We could absolutely make um repairs to it. We could and it might
last another 15 years and we'd be okay, but it wouldn't be ideal, but we wouldn't be adding programs and the state won't contribute to that. or if you build a new high school, obviously the longevity of that high school is much more significant. And I think the fiscal investment is a better investment
in the long term. The cost differential is real, but it is not so significant that hopefully it will be manageable, especially with the point you just made about the lottery. However, there are
real implications to Doc's point. So, I just offer that it's not necessarily that there's a right or a wrong in terms of what the answer is, and it's up to the taxpayers to decide what's right or wrong for them. It's just that there's different ways of looking at this. And the way that I'm the the way that the
building committee has been presented the information is such that a new high school is a strong investment that will last longer, allow us growth in the addition of three programs. But there are implications for a yes and a no regardless of which direction the
taxpayers choose. Um and to your point, I would foresee probably if I had to forecast a tendency decrease as a result of the lottery at least in the early stages, but that that again is not concrete. So it all depends on the
forecast in terms of what the K through 12 predictive data tells us. Is that helpful? >> Yes. >> Okay. Sorry for the long answer. >> Does a does a decrease in student population equate to a decrease in >> predictive data share of the project and the annual
budget? Yes. So if a cushion's numbers drop that's less money. >> Capital is based on annual enrollment. Um adult colony that's 90% of the number. K through 12 enrollment is 10% of the number. That's a safeguard for communities with very low numbers to
ensure that there's still a contribution if that makes sense. Less of an issue with communities that have higher numbers. >> Just a quick follow up on because we we saw this in social media a lot of misinformation coming out
>> and one of it was that Old Colony was instituting a lottery and could you just address the fact that that is statemandated? So, I will tell you uh 100% that is statemandated. If I went to the board of education on three different dates, you can look up the
board of education meetings and see my testimony to speak against a lottery. I am not in I am not in favor of a lottery. I understand there are pros and cons. A lottery means every student has an opportunity to be selected. But I also believe very much so that the
merit-based system that was created is an incentive for students to focus on certain areas within their control. And at no point was Old Colony ever a disproportionate represent representation of our member communities. So I will tell you that I have openly advocated for the old system
to be maintained but unsuccessfully. >> The last question I have about that though all these other towns have high schools. We don't. So they have a choice of going to their own high school. We don't and we still lose seats even though they have alternative options and we do not.
>> Th this is true and our attempt was try was to try and utilize something with this town by town lottery that was as fair as possible. The historical data is kind of the that's a feather in the cap of a Kushnet. So it takes into consideration the historical attendance from a Kushnet because if we used only
predictive data there'd be far fewer seats. Does that make sense? >> Yes. So the offset of the historical data kind of speaks to what you just mentioned. It's it's giving credit where credit is due. Like hey, these kids have have grown up here. We've been there. I always say we're a Christian high school, right? And I would love to say,
hey, we can take as many kids as we possibly can. The reality is the state has forced our hand in terms of how we can u proceed. And I think it's a really difficult place to be to try and create a formula that will work and then carry over when we when we look to expand
because that predictive data will assist with expansion. >> Quick question in staying with the lottery questions. >> Uh just so I understand it and I'm just going to use rough numbers. Is it is the
lottery drawn by a regional level or the district level? When you say a Christian has 50 students, >> it'll be it'll be drawn at it will be drawn by old colony. A third party will come in. They will draw the lottery and it will be drawn so that if the first
once the quota is created per town those >> and that's and how is that? >> We use historical data which is the average of the last three nth grade classes at Old Colony. >> Okay. And we use predictive data which is the percentage of let's call it a
cushion seats. >> Okay. >> Um in the eighth grade compared to the aggregate eighth grade class. We multiply that percentage by the number of students we're accepting 150 and that gives you the percentage of 150 for predictive data purposes. They're
combined with historical data and then you get the average of those two numbers which gives you your quota. >> Okay. >> Right. >> So uh it's It's drawn. So if you have 200 students that apply for a freshman, Oak Colony draws 150.
>> We'll draw every student so that they know exactly where they are on the wait list. But the if an aushnet student says I choose not to attend, that seat is filled with an aushnet student. It is not in order of the the weight list draw. Does that make sense? Yes. >> It will go to the first aushnet student.
If a if a town does not use all of their seats, what will happen is the available seat will rotate. So, one town will take a student. The next time that available seat uh seat becomes available, a next town will get that student. And again, we've done that to try and um address
this gentleman's concern about equal distribution so that there's not an overdraw for any town. My concern initially was they told us we couldn't do a town by town. Well, what happens if we draw 150 students from a Kushnet? What does that do to the budget? You flatten the municipality. That's
problematic. You can't do that to a municipality. Better yet, if you draw 150 students from Carver, they have no freshman class. So, we had to have predictive and historical data to predict to safeguard against any negative outcome that could have
resulted from a lottery. Does that make sense? But again, it came as a state mandate. Please know old colony advocated strongly to maintain the prior system. >> It's just in my concern to follow up with Dr. Buché's comments about I I
think you know as a finance committee you know obviously we have to concentrate on a Kushnet and I think we're looking kind of at a perfect storm as far as education is concerned because our school committee is is looking at a contract now for conventional high schools. We don't know where that's
going to go. And we've got a problem with our uh environmental uh in our elementary and our middle school that that's going to have to be addressed. And that's all going to fall, you know, on the property owner and the taxpayers
and a cushion if this project goes. I mean, if a Kushnet turns this project down, it could still go based on the other four communities. >> So, it's a difficult situation, >> right? To your point, Mr. one even to that point I think even if it doesn't
pass there's still issues we deal with to your point right so there's still a tax impact the question is which is a to Pete's point is which is a better investment right that's one and then the second piece to keep in mind and doc and Pete and Eric can attest to this
actually Mr. St. Gene Ken too. I think each of them has been present at some point over the last 10 years. When we have our budgeting process, every town comes in at least twice to give us feedback around the budget. And so the operational budget is created in
conjunction with and in collaboration with our member towns. It's also put out in a line by line fashion so that every single member town can look line by line with us and say to us, these are the impacts that we're feeling. tell us what you know where you're coming from. And
typically I can tell you over the past 10 years we've always found a way to get to yes collaboratively but not without cutting pieces back and that will continue to happen. So we've always been collaborative in the way that we communicate with our towns. Um by all
means that's the that's the goal moving forward. But as we look at this and we evaluate where we want to be in the future, our question is where is the most sound investment? And is it in the 220,000 mile engine or is it in the 90,000
uh mile engine, right? As the analogy that I used earlier and I think realistically adding three programs, expanding capacity for enrollment, right? and putting something down that will last at least 50 years is a far better decision than 15 years down the
road being a percentage of the way through um repairs, right? And kicking the can down the road because at some point if it's in 15 years we say we want to build a new high school, it's going to be way more than the cost of what we're talking about now. When Cape Cod Tech built their high school for $120
million and cut the ribbon in 2021, I sat in front of the Lakeville Select Board and Rich Leamer said to me, Aaron, you want to do something like that? It's going to be over $100 million. And I said, Rich, that's in today's numbers. It's going to be way more than that. And after the meeting, he said, hey, you know what? I really appreciate you said
it's going to be way more than that, right? because we knew at that time it was going to be way more than that because you could see from inflation there was no way we were doing something for $128 million if we were just starting right with a meeting that was on December 5th 2019 in our our cougars
then where we said to all of our member towns we're going to be submitting a statement of interest right and at that point in time we gave them a booklet of all of our failing systems and said here's a bunch of failing systems we need you to know that between 2019 and whenever this thing goes we're not put
in for in any capital in these areas because it would be a frivolous use of taxpayer money. We just couldn't. We if the system failed, we'd have to go for an emergency, you know, an ask, but we weren't willing to put money into that if we knew that there was a chance we
might have a new building and we wouldn't have to expend those costs. So, please know that capital projects since 2019 have absolutely been put on hold out of respect for where this process could lead us. >> Thank you. Mr. Jim.
>> Yeah. >> Just uh kind of jump back into that point. Do you currently have I mean you you have capital expenses added to your budget every year. Do you still have do you have I know we talked about stabilization last year. What do
you currently have in your so-called coffers for capital expenses? Sorry, I just want to pull up. Hi, I just want to pull up the report, but um I wanted to make a comment about the burden on a Kushnet because if you pull
the chapter 70 spreadsheet for the town of Aushnet, the town's required contribution towards education increased last year by $685,000. So if you are talking about having
700,000 available and the state is saying you have to contribute $685,000 additional in additional to to all of your schools I have your locals of a pushnet 435,000
oony was $ 210,000 so that's that's wild because you have 1100 students and you are local and you had last year um 194 students at a colony. So Jesse is saying
that is your required minimum local contribution towards education. And I know as a school district when we sit and have these conversations at budget subcommittee, we really try to get as close as possible to minimum local contribution. Of course, there are
things that we do not have control of that go above and beyond that. One of them last year being insurance. Um and and I always we need to talk about transportation contracts because the town of Kushinet knows this. You have your own transportation contract that you bid. We have our transportation
contract as well. The good thing about transportation at this time is we're getting regional transportation reimbursement um 80 to sometimes 90% and we can apply that to the following year's budget. So that is extremely helpful. Of course, not ever guaranteed.
Um, but two important pieces that I think we need to talk about when we talk about the burden to a cushion is the fact that your minimum local contribution went up $685,000 last year to your local schools. Period. That's not that doesn't include any of your other departments. So, we I look at
that and I think that is absolutely a huge burden for the finance committee to talk about, for the town admins to speak about. It's incredibly difficult to balance a budget doing that. Rochester had a very very similar scenario last year and it was difficult for them as
well. We do have a stabilization fund. We also have a oped that we are um contributing to and last year um
I just go to our reserve. >> I'm just looking for capital expenditure budget. That's it. So, in our operating budget, we have $50,000, 60,000 this year, for capital expenses. We usually buy one new piece of
equipment. So, either it's a piece of equipment for a shop or it's a vehicle. Sometimes our maintenance department needs things. Our cafeteria might need something, although they're pretty much a self-sufficient program at this point. So, we now have a high enough reserve in our cafeteria program that we can buy
our own equipment. Um, our shops might need a new piece of equipment. For the most part, annually in our operating budget, it's $50,000 in a piece of capital equipment. That is it. >> But I I thought your question was what was in there? Stabilization. That's what I thought. >> Well, I said stabilization and capital
repair budget and then it went on a very longer version. So, I think part of the question got lost in that. And that's not me >> saying anything negative about it. But ultimately what I'm getting at is in case we have to think worst case scenario in case this doesn't happen.
>> Sure. In our stabilization fund last year >> so we don't end up in a debt exclusion right away in the spring again or in the fall again. >> Yeah. So in our stabilization fund last year we have 1.2 million. We um carry about $300,000 in our END.
So um 5% of old colony's operating budget gives us a threshold of $700,000 in END. We are never at the threshold of 5%. If we ever were, we'd have to return those funds back for member towns. We never are. Um, and then we also have
OPED of 1.2 million. So 1.2 million in OPED and 1.2 million in the stabilization fund. But if we were to have an emergency situation, we would absolutely go into our stabilization fund um to help fund that. And if we had to our END because we have those funds available, but that is also part of how
we bond, right? So if we don't have all we don't have stabilization and we don't have END then we actually cannot bond. >> I understand how ratings work. Thank you. >> Can you bring up the chat where you had the budget the operating budget?
>> Sure. And you said fiscal year 34 is when you'd be full capacity if a new school was built and the operating budget is what? >> So after revenue 14.34 million. >> How's that happen? >> Uh it's after chapter 7 and chapter 718.
So that um so just to clarify that's on top of the 9 million 971,000 that is listed before eight now. >> So basically 10 million was last year's number
>> assessed the member towns. >> It was 99. >> What you see there is assessment. >> So the paperwork we were given were 9,971,222. >> What you what date was that on? >> His last budget season. >> No, you don't put
>> 9971 314 2025. >> Yeah. So the difference is probably that we received additional chapter 70 which the town will receive back in the fourth quarter. >> Okay. So your budget's gone up the last two years a million dollars each year.
>> Our budget has not gone up a million dollars. It's gone up about $500,000 each year. >> That's impossible. If with onethird of the school and our assessment went up $347,000, what's a third of a million? Part of the
increase to old colony's budget is our transportation which we receive reimbursement for and it is always applied directly to the budget. So part of the increase might be transportation but it's being offset with revenue that's not meantime assessment. >> Okay.
Still a big nut. We talked about that last school around right what you actually bring back for reimbursements from transportation is not the actual number that you get back from the state from reimbursements. Nor does the Krishna. Right. For your for your >> transportation. I'm just talking budget
numbers. Sure. And you seem to be getting upset because we're talking what reality is. Reality is >> is reality. No. >> I mean, I got the number right here. >> It's $347,000 from 26. >> 24 was $214,000.
>> I mean, it's the numbers the numbers are gradually increasing. >> Yes. >> And it's roughly a million dollars year-over-year. I need to be honest with you. It's pretty simple to do a calculation, Sarah, for a simple fact that back in 2012, all four member towns with a population of 474 kids going to
the school. Again, 13 years ago, 4,414,149, all five member towns. We are currently at 9,971,000. 13 years later and the majority of that increase has come over the last few years based on a cushion's assessment based on our
population and back then we were 44% of that school. >> Yeah. >> So I mean the budget is increasing. So how did you get to that number if that's minus state aid? You're going eight years out
on top of the nine. That would be roughly 17 million. You're 3 million short. on that operating budget from what we've seen over the last couple years if you continue to go up to 900 including transportation because it's part of the budget >> and insurance.
>> So it's 900 to a million dollars. >> Sure. >> And we're talking about insurance health insurance which we are >> it's all part of the budget though. We do the same thing in the town of Aushnet. I mean you can't tell people well our increases for health insurance went up a million dollars but we're not going to use that as part of the budget.
We have to capture that in taxation. It's all part of the budget process. >> That's used every year. Insurance is used every course. We always show insurance. >> I know. And I have your detailed budgets here. I'm just It's >> part of the budget. >> Money follows students. There's going to be additional revenue because there's
216 more students here. So, you're going to have a significant amount more revenue, right, coming in with 216 more students. >> Mike, have you uh looked at what the town's operating budget will be in 30 30 uh 2034?
like as a finance committee like if you project it out like 10 years from now essentially 10 years from now where you think FY30 is not 10 years from now >> FY34 we're talking the FY34 number >> no I haven't >> Mr. Chairman if I can answer that question so the the town's annual budget
unfortunately has been going up roughly $1.2 million a year the whole town budget including school department our K through8 is going up roughly 1.2 2 million a year. >> So if you want to just stick with a fixed number saying nothing's going to
cost us anymore and multiply 1.2 * 10, that would be 12 million more dollars from the current 38 roughly million dollars that we're currently at. It's out of control and everything's out of control and it's no nobody's fault. And and Aaron, you were saying something
about a previous school saying something about look, >> let me just say it to everybody this way. When when we talk about dollars, everybody thinks money grows on tree. Aaron's 100% right. I said it back when we built a police department. 12 years ago, we formed a building um
committee for a police department and it came in at 5 million bucks and I said $5 million today. Imagine what it's going to cost us in 10 years. Look at the federal deficit. In 2010, we were roughly 10 or 12 trillion. 15 years later, we're at $ 38 trillion.
People are spending money like drunken sailors. Inflation, the federal government's created inflation beyond all of our control. We're paying more for everything across the board because people down there are drinking off the punch bowl thinking because they have a printing machine, but none of us folks here in our small little towns have the
same printing machine. We're on a a pathway of collapse financially. Look at the follow the conversations that are really having and I'm not talking about your crappy little news outlets. Stop following real news outlets and you'll see what I'm talking about. The amount of debt in this country is out of
control that other countries are starting to depend themselves from the US dollar. We cannot continue to spend money like we are spending money and so many people have gotten used to that free money coming in. Sooner or later that's going to break it. It's going to stop and you're going to hurt a lot of people.
I get it. To my point, to your point, if I may, to take a 50-y old building and put band-aids on it for 15 years and kick this can down the road to me is a tremendous mistake because to your point, years from now, I can't even
imagine what this will cost. There were other towns that forego that that that did not engage in projects that were that were quoted at a fraction of what they're paying for now. And realistically, we have an investment
that has been at the a cornerstone, I believe. And when you look every Thursday online at what we create in terms of our alumni spotlight and what we do for our towns, how we give back, we're about to start a construction project in Rochester. We just finished the concession stand in Carver. We did
the COA shed here in town. Old Colony is not just a place where kids walk through the door and get an education. Oak Colony is a service-based organization that gives back to all five member communities. And the question is, if not now, when? And what do we do to modernize the facility? Because our kids
do deserve that. And I'm not talking about they deserve flashy Lamborghinis. That's not what we've designed. We're talking about a regular modernized facility without all the glitz and the glare. And unfortunately, to the point that was made last time when Mr. Te spoke, he said, "I can't
believe the way the numbers have trended. He's spot on. I feel the same way. I can't believe the way the numbers have trended. For for us to look at 120 mill $28 million for Cape Cod Tech when they cut the ribbon in 2021 and for us
to be where we are right now to me is heartbreaking. But if you said 10 years ago, we need to do work on a building that's 40 years old. People would in their mind say, "What do you mean we have to do work on a building that's 40 years old?" The time wasn't right. And I would have agreed because it's only 40
years old. 40 and 50 are different, a decade is different. And it's true. A 50-y old building built the way our building is built. And if you ever if you've ever toured and looked at it, you can attest to it cuz you went to school in it. And the way
our building was built is like the old Carver building that got ripped down because it was supposed to be up for probably 30 years. We're not talking about a Bristol Aggie that was built in the 1900s, 1913, and you can ren easily. The buildings built in 1970 something are a heck of a lot different than the
buildings that were built in 1913. The 1913 buildings are more stable. You can do more with those. You can't do what we want to do with a 1970s building. It's the truth. So I don't want to sit here in front of people and sugar coat stuff. I want to be real.
>> How sad is that though? What we what you Nobody's wrong here. >> The people in 1920 didn't have half the tools, half the building materials that we have currently. And that's still that school's still standard, right? And they're not they didn't knock it down. And they didn't knock it down. Actually,
I'm on Bristol County Commission and I did support the additions to that school. And I was actually shocked 100 something year old school. We're not knocking it down. They're like, "No, perfectly fine." That's that's the problem. That's the problem I'm trying to explain to the people today. When I look at, and I'm not saying it ain't going to be a beautiful school, but when
I look at the number of $288 million, I say, "Are you kidding me?" Like, >> we all do. We have $100 million. I would think that you would have two of those schools right? >> But my question for you is which is the more fiscally sound decision.
>> I I totally totally get that. I think the bigger conversation for the people at home and and in all the other communities that are struggling working paycheck to paycheck, I think that's really where this evolves from. It's nobody's fault that something cost what it I shouldn't say that. It's the
federal government's fault for what things are costing us today. Period. It doesn't matter whether you're going to a grocery store, whether you're paying a utility bill. It doesn't really matter. It It is what it is. And you can tell just by looking at the US debt. I just told you 2010, look it up. We were
pretty close to 10 trillion. Matter of fact, when Bill Clinton was in office, we had a surplus. We didn't have a deficit. End of story. All right. Anybody else have questions? >> Eric. Go ahead, Eric. >> So, I have uh two questions. Um, one is
Is this working? You know what? >> Didn't let >> it work. Nobody wants me to talk in the microphone. Um, so two elephants in the room. Number one, um, can you explain for the taxpayers out there across the board if there's there's two ballot
questions. One is the building to approve the actual building itself >> and number two is to how we're paying for it. Can you explain to the people that if question one passes but question two doesn't pass, what's the process going
forward? Sure. >> So that happened with Bristol Plymouth in Berkeley. I believe it was Berkeley. So Bristol Plymouth is the parallel to Old Colony. For people who don't know, the question about building a new high school is coming from the Old Colony School
Committee that's put on the ballot by the Old Colony School Committee. people will vote yes or no. If people vote yes, we proceed regardless of what the outcome is. The for the second question, the second
question is put forth by the towns if they choose to ask for a debt exclusion. If a debt exclusion fails, the town can put out another vote for a debt exclusion. You can revisit that. That's what Berkeley did. However, folks should
know if a debt exclusion fails, the cost of the building is still the responsibility of the member towns. And that's a difficult piece for people to understand or or a difficult I should say a difficult pill to swallow. The really important piece to understand
is if we vote no on the building, there will still be implications and that is also included on the tax impact calculator. So when you type in numbers, you can see the cost of a new high school. You can also see the cost of repair. So please go in when you use the
tax impact calculator to look at both. It's really important to see the comparison. Right? So to Mr. Chu's point, the first vote for the new high school or not is from the school district. The second vote on how to fund it is from the town. If the second vote
fails, the second vote can be put back out for reconsideration. >> Now, is that a independ is that an actual community vote as far as the actual override or is that a like a cushion is proposing that and let's say >> the debt exclusion is only for the town
and so it's it's town by town. >> So, it's specific to know the debt exclusion, but Carver, Rochester, Lakeville all say yes. How how does that work out? So the the the debt exclusion vote was put out by the town. So it's
only for that town, >> right? There's no aggate. >> The aggregate is >> the building was we chose to go with the aggregate for the building. And for people who missed the first presentation, there is a 16D model and a 16N. The 16D is a town by town. The 16N
is an aggregate. The 16D, if it fails, then moves to a 16N. The delay between a 16D and a 16N is an $8 million cost. The reason why we chose to go right to a 16N was because we figured if the town says yes, they say
yes. If they say no, they say no. We're not going to delay to the tune of $8 million. If we know that we'd end up at that same form of vote anyway, it didn't make sense because a 16D, if you then go to a 16N, that's like spitting in the
faces of the people who said no to 16D. It's not okay. So the committee said we're not playing that game. We're going right to the second option and whatever they say they say. But we refuse to have pe a bunch of people vote no and then go to a 16n following. That just that's not
sound practice. And you add $8 million potentially in the because of the delay. >> Yeah. I got I got confused on Mr. Chu. I understood where he was going, but now I'm confused. >> The debt exclusion is the instrument of funding the obligation. So if the voters
say yes, we are obligated to fund the yes. Right? So the debt exclusion is the instrument. If the town decides to not do a debt exclusion, then they have to figure out to get the money from another source. >> Right? I understand that part. What
happens if >> that's fine. Okay. So now because now the debt exclusion is coming from the towns themselves individually. So it's not it's not an aggregate. >> That's right. So now if these other communities say yes across the board, but a Christian says no for the debt exclusion,
>> we're still on the hook for the obligation. So if we say no to the debt exclusion, >> then the finance committee will have to figure out where to come up with the money from the existing, right? Just like the the school department most recently chose to go to a debt exclusion
to fund that $3 million um air conditioning question. they could have chosen to take out of existing funds out of ex operating budget to pay for that right or the town could have said no we'll go to stabilization or whatever that may be so the debt
exclusion is the instrument to fund the obligation if the town says yes if if the if the district says yes >> so I I'll just share too uh Berkeley the delay between their two debt exclusion votes was what two and a half years two and a half years >> so it was rejected initially two and a
half years later it was approved. So just because what's going to happen is if this were a yes, there's some time between when you'd actually see the first impact if that makes sense. I I have personally time for one more question than I have to scoop, but part of our team is going to stay to answer
additional questions. >> I I I've read up a little bit on the MSBA and I'd read that they will actually fund up to 80% on some projects. So, we're at 60% funded. Where's the where's the difference? Why
why couldn't they go up a little bit higher? >> So, Jack can speak probably more eloquently to that than I can, but I will tell you I've been at the state house on a on numerous occasions advocating for the differential between the cost to build a vocational school and the cost to build a traditional high
school. And I do believe that the MSBA should be taking into consideration cost differentials. Think about the difference between building one gym versus call every large shop a gym, right? And what the cost differential is. And when you think about FF&, there's a there's a serious differential
between what we we would pay for furnishings in comparison to a classroom that relies solely on textbooks, right? So there are differentials and I've been advocating aggressively uh to see changes around that. Um, but I think
realistically in terms of how the current formula exists, Chad could probably because he has more experience with it speak more eloquently to it. So I'll hand >> Mike I just want to share with you like I've been on the committee and I can only I can speak to process right and I said at the last meeting I'm not going
to or previous meetings I'm not going to get into people's mindset or their pocketbooks or their wallets and try to either shame them into voting for it or scare them into not voting for it. Right. But the one thing I can say with
my 24 24 to 30 years of serving this town is that they've been very disciplined in what they've said what of what they're saying and what they're telling people. We could speculate and say, "Oh yes, we'll get 80%. Oh yes, we'll get more grants. Oh yes, we'll get
all this." Or, "Yes, it'll be like Bristol Plymouth and they'll drive the cost down in millions." But they've been very disciplined in what they've shared with the public. What's been given is the worst case scenario, a not to exceed number right?
Will it come down? Possibly. But they're not going to hang the hat on that and make that part of the campaign because it would be disingenuous. It would be wrong and it would be quite frankly fraudulent to the taxpayer. So when it's a great question, but I think to the to
the school building committee and the school committee's credit, they've been very disciplined in what they've what they say what they've been saying with the public. >> But Dave, I'm I'm not disputing the transparency, okay? I mean, I and I've credited them over the years with the the budgets that they presented to us,
and I've asked our school department here to model theirs because of the transparency that they provide. So there's no question. Um, but as far as, you know, numbers, I mean, I've been on the finance committee for 20 years, so I'm strictly looking at numbers. I'm
taking personalities out of it. I'm looking at straight up numbers. And the bottom line is each family in this town is going to have to do what's affordable for them. They're going to have to make the decision for themselves, do their own math, and see what they can afford. >> Well, I just want to address, Mike, because you asked them about the disparity between I'm not trying to
shame anybody or >> No, no, no. I just wanted you to know that if the reason why they haven't either been touting those efforts or talking about the disparity between 60 and 80% is that they wanted to make sure that they weren't over overhyping what
he's trying to pull off as far as reimbursement goes. >> I understand exactly they want to overpromise. They just wanted to give this is what the project cost. This is what the impact >> and I understand that the MSBA and DESIE puts all these requirements built into this project which actually drive up the
cost uh because you have to have larger rooms and all that the bigger square footage. Um I just wish I wish our state provided more funding for public education projects like this because they waste billions of dollars and this
is where we need it right now. um and it's instead it's going to fall in the backs of taxpayers potentially and that's that's what's really troubling to me and that's that's the part that I hate with this whole process. That's a fair point. Um so to answer your question uh yes they do go up to 80%. Um
the formula is based on a number of factors but they're largely just raw data from DOI. They'll look at income factor, they look at property wealth factor. um they rerun the numbers the year that you're invited into uh execute a project school budget agreement which is this year. So when old colony started
their base rate before incentives based on that DR data was 54.16 plus incentives. When they reran the numbers this year it came up a little bit to 54.79% base rate and then we have the 5.7% incentives that we're going to have and that gets you to the 60.49. Um so it's
it's just raw number crunching DRR data. uh there's no negotiation that happens or whatever ever would happen. Have they because in the in the question I I've read through this thing a bunch of times and it says after done including pay payment of all costs
incidental and relative there to the project which school facil facility shall have an anticipated useful life of an education facility for an instruction in school children of school children of at least 50 years and for which the district may be eligible for a school
construction grant from the mass building authority. party or the MSBA. Set amounts will be expended at the direction of the school committee. To meet this appropriation, the district is authorized to borrow set amount on the pursuant general law chapter 71 subsection 16 and the district agreement
as amended or pursuant to any other enabling authority. The district acknowledges that the MSBA grant pro program is a non-entitlement discretionary program based on need as determined by the MSBA and any project costs the district incurs in excess of
any grant approved by the and received from the MSB shall be the sole responsibility of the district. I won't bore you with the rest. So it looks like all five member towns are going for $288 million to authorize that. Right. That's the >> So it's not taken.
>> What? >> That's the MSBA's required language. Yeah, we're not allowed. >> No, I understand. So, let me ask let me get to the big hook in the room. Right. So, what happens if MB MSBA I don't know if they've already signed a guarantee with us and with the school and said
we're guaranteeing you 60% reimbursement or is that still up in the air? Because it kind of talks about non- entitlement and maybe when somebody uses the word may, it scares the hell out of me. Are we getting something? Or what happens if MB MS something happens with MSBA grant
funding and they say we can't give you anything? Are we on the hook for $288 million? >> So we authorize that borrowing as five member towns. >> So part of this kind of two pieces of that. So the the first part is why does it all say May will future tense, right?
Um and it's a chicken and egg situation. So they're looking to see your local funding authorization. They want certified vote results before they'll enter into a project scope but uh project funding agreement. Uh so once you get those vote results in, you have a funding agreement signed and sealed
within a matter of weeks, maybe a month or two. Um why the language is written the way it is. They don't know what happens between now and that month or two, right? If uh MSBA remember is funded by a state sales tax, so they do have a steady funding source. I mean, in
an extreme example, could sales tax be eliminated in Massachusetts? >> I guess so. I don't think it's likely. I'm sure you don't think it's likely. Um, but that is their funding source. And and that plays into the second part of the question, why they they cap those costs, why they cap their reimbursement percentage, and it's really supply and
demand with the MSBA. They're limited. They have that one penny of every dollar in the sales tax, and they're trying to spread it around to as many communities as possible. And the numbers up there between the repair and the new are close intentionally from the MSBA standpoint. They're trying to make them close because they want you to move forward
with the program, but they don't want to make it so killing that now they don't have enough money to fund more schools. They'd rather do 20 schools in a year with less money than do 10 schools a year with more money. >> I just want to make sure that we're never going to be on the hook for that total amount. That language has been
there for 20 years and I've never seen a project uh be on the hook for the language that you see there. >> I think it's like a mortgage agreement, right? Well, we we agree to do this but you got to do this and if you don't do this then we don't do this. >> Exactly. And I I can say we will have a project funding agreement uh within a
matter of time when they receive those certified vote results. It is a chicken situation. >> So if this passes hypothetically um when is shovels in the ground? How what's what's the future with? >> So, we have about a year of design. So,
um on November 18th, if the vote is successful, uh that year will carry design right through basically the end of next year. So, 2026 will be a detailed design year. We have three more submissions to the state. We go back, we check the numbers. There's also opportunities for us to drill down and say, "Okay, hey, we carve out this and
fire it out as a early chapter 30 package. We can save some money." So, that's what we are doing over that entire year of design. and the designers are working to get a bidable project out of the street. After that, the bid period is two to three months. Uh so that carries through the holidays into
early 2027 and then we'd have shovels in the ground spring. Yeah, ground 2027. I do think we'd have an early package uh likely next summer for the waterline connection. That's an easy one to carve out as a chapter 30 bid package. Get the water line tied in, get that risk behind
you. And I mean that's kind of how our approach works with these projects. And like Crystal Clement, we take as much risk and put it behind this as we can. So when we do put a bid with that full bid package, you've already mitigated as much risk as possible. >> So question
loop Kevin's new phase phrase these days is bands. Is there any way of doing that kind of stuff for this project or is that >> bands are short-term following >> and this would not be something like that. So again, I ran the schedule 30
years 40% 44% on what I believe will be our share. It might be a little bit under about 50 million bucks. We're paying three roughly 2.85 million a year will be what we have to have on a debt exclusion. Carry that close to three million bucks for the
sake of this conversation for 30 years. >> Before we go too far down that rabbit also that the district is um working with Uni Bank on this project. you're probably industry. I know unit bank. I just did it with my bond hill crust. So just running bait numbers again because it ain't going to change that
dramatically. In fact, it could go up. It could go down a bit, right? Based on population. I know how enrollment works. I was part of colony. >> So on Finn comp from 2005 to 10. So I've done a lot about the enrollment, how the equation changes and per cap and aggregate wealth method and all that.
>> So So Uni Bank is recommending two bands on this project. one in December of 25 for 9 million, one of December of 26 for 18 million. If the project moves forward, >> that will roll into the bond >> and a roll. Yeah. >> So that's the district that's going to ban a certain number to keep the project
moving forward. Kind of like what we're doing with a golf clubhouse, right? >> Exactly. >> So we're just that's a short-term borrowing. You're going to hit that 9 million. It'll come up whatever you need. Then you >> One year >> one year, >> right? Yep. So that's just to keep things going on what you project will be in your first year of construction costs
and all of that bond in 2018. >> Correct. >> Anybody else have any questions? >> Just for a minute. >> Rob, if you don't mind just going >> Rob 1280. >> You don't mind just going up to the uh podium? >> Oh, sure. >> Sorry. Just
>> I'm the first one today at home. Yeah. >> Hi everybody. I'm Rob Gomes, 1280 Main Street. I'm honored to be a school committee member and I also served on the building committee and uh you know all this stuff is really interesting to me. Truthfully, I've been in construction my whole life and when I
heard those numbers I was staggered. It was like it blew me away. But I saw the information, the data to substantiate it. And I get it. I don't like it, but I get it. But I want to say this because it hasn't been mentioned at this meeting. A lot has, but this hasn't. in
reference to renovating our existing building would be irresponsible. It would simply be irresponsible. The MSBA does reimburse for renovations. It's not doing it because they know it's irresponsible. And the thing that hasn't been mentioned, it would be an adjusted
to the students. Has anybody had their uh the kitchen or the bathroom done while you're living at home? Great. Most of us had something, right? Picture doing that for maybe 40 years like like Mr. Gasper said those kids are going to
be, you know, out of their element. Every time we do some sort of a project, these projects are not easily isolated. Breaking floors for plumbing underneath, breaking walls for bracing, changing doorways. I know, I've been in this. We
have no other school to send them to while all this is happening. It's an injustice to the kids to think that you can remodel that in a way that education still happens. So, I just wanted to add that because I didn't think it was brought up. Thank you.
>> Yes, sir. >> Thank you. Uh Jonathan Taber, 18 Green Meadow Drive. Um I'm embarrassed to say that I did not know a lot about this project till about 10 days ago when a good friend of mine asked me how how I felt about it and what I was going to
do. Um, and so I've watched the uh one of the YouTube things and I want to thank the you guys for uh the work you've done and I can see the effort you put in. So I just had a couple of questions. Um, the first is I think I heard I'm not an accountant and I I'm
not a debt exclusion person, but I my one of my question was if this is a 30-year project and something changes every four or five years and then all of a sudden, I don't know, maybe Mata poison or maybe Rochester grows high and we come down a little bit, do the numbers automatically get revisited so
that we're not paying the 35%. Okay, thank you. That's good. That's good news. The next question and and I'm happy to say that I came to a cushion the same year that old colony was built. So we're 50y year people. Um the uh what happened 50 years ago
when the decision was made to build that school? Was it the five towns all paid uh equally or was something like this done based on a a student count? Does anybody know that? >> Probably not. >> I think it was all five. I'm not 100%
sure, but I want to say >> I've been in the town for 57 years, thank you very much. But um I was um six years old when that occurred. >> Lakefield was not an original member. >> So, right. And then we've had Shirley. Um I work with Shirley. I've always
admired Shirley. She's an extremely intelligent woman. She knows more about finance and budget numbers than I'd ever dream of. But anyways, um I have a lot of admiration for you, Shirley, as you know. Um Freetown was also a tuition school that we got rid of. They opted
out of when we gave them an option four years ago. This year was their last student. I think they had one left and they captured about $1.3 million of that budget. So that really impacted the five member towns as well because you didn't have that, you know, back then it was a
million bucks and it's grown to a million three. So, you know, that was also a big increase in the in the budget cost, but I don't know. I probably have the original agreement at home, Mr. Taber. >> Um, from Old Colony, we it was amended in 2008. >> It's been amended a few times.
>> 18 I think was the last one. 1819 amendment. >> When it opened, it opened with four towns. Lakeville was not uh a member even though they were in the planning stages of it but they backed out uh Lakeville and Freetown from what I
understand. Uh 10 years later asked to join the district. Um they bought into the district. Um Freetown never decided to become a member. Uh it was an agreement between the district and
Freetown to provide an opportunity until the enrollment requests from the five towns grew so large we could no longer honor Freetown kids >> and and they didn't want to buy in like like that was like four years five years ago we did that with them because this
year's the last year >> and my last question again based on my own ignorance on this subject but I think with the election coming up it might be a good idea if if somehow you guys could put out something. Maybe you already have and I haven't I don't know
about it, but what what what's the why what's the value of this? What what if you vote yes, here's what you get, and if you vote no, here's what you get. And and you know, I'm a proponent of of colony and vocational students. So, um but I think people need to be educated
because I'm pretty I like to think that I'm somewhat smart, but I had no clue. And so I think people need an understanding of what's happening. I don't think there's enough people >> agree with you 100%. That's why we're sitting here right now because this is the third meeting. I push for it to make sure that we could get the message out
to the residents even more. And believe me, I'd like to get more out on social media as far as education if we can. Um so so people are fully aware of the impact either in either way, you know. >> Yeah. Listen, >> and thank you for doing it on your own
because I guarantee you 95% of the the residents here are not doing it. >> No, I'm sure of But you know, the garbage collectors can tell me a couple weeks in advance what day they're not coming. I think we need to put something out in a in a form, you know. >> But anyway, whatever you can do,
>> chamber, I I did notice that the, you know, the sign on nice lane. We got one down at the town hall. We got a bunch of light up signs. We could put one over here. Council on age and another one down at DPW. I really think the board of selectmen really need to make that decision. Matter of fact, I would make that a motion tonight to light those
signs up talking about a dead exclusion. Put the number up on the sign November 18th so they know what the hell's going on, right? Because it was a sign said early voting November 18th and that was pretty much the end of that. And I know early voting didn't get anything really for participation. That tells me a lot
as you just alluded to. Not many people know what the hell's going on and they're going to be blindsided by this. Right. So, I think we need to get that message up on the the the lightup boards and I would actually make that motion right now. >> I'll second my motion and I'll actually follow that up. I was in a
>> it's a motion made by a board of select. >> I'll second the >> Mr. Mr. Ingley just second it. So, there we go. >> We'll we'll put up a message on the on the light up boards and and see if we can get more people's attention. But it's it I hope >> that that's not the case. And I know
that social media because I do have people that watch it for me. I'm not on it. Would drive me absolutely crazy trying to respond. I know Mr. Inkley does a lot of that. Bless him. Um I I I don't there's just too much misinformation. I just think people, you know, need to know. And I know that Mr.
Inkley's done a good job and Mr. Chu's been on it as well on social media. Just tell them go back and watch the meetings. Right. The first one was September 9th. second one was October 27th or something like that. >> And then and then tonight's meeting and that's all we could do is have these I
mean there's been three um they haven't been long in duration but I think we've covered a lot of ground in the the amount of time the three meetings that we've had for the most part um to get people to know what the hell they're voting on. Um it's >> that and the old colonies building site
that they have up there has all these details plus more than what we saw today. all 87 publications. >> I mean, yeah, I mean, it's all out there. I mean, O Colon has done a a a great job with their website with giving people information. And, you know, it goes by the total amounts of yes, total
amounts of no. It really can come down to one town either making this happen or making it fail. Let's not be fooled. If you have four towns that you only get a thousand people that come out and vote and it's split 5050. The town of Ausha
has over 7,500 registered voters, could you imagine what would happen if the town of Ausha came out, all 7,500 for once in its lifetime came out and cast a vote? Now, I'm not going to say which way that vote would go. I'm just trying to explain to the people the impact that
we as one community really do have um to make it happen or not happen. It's up to the people. As the chairman said, we're not here to tell people how to vote for it. I I wouldn't be very comfortable if I came out and spoke either way. It's everybody's individual vote that needs
to be cast based on your comfort level of what you're paying in taxes. Period. But you need to get out and vote. >> And if I could, uh, just a comment to going out. Um, I cannot tell you how
many presentations we've made. Um, to be honest with you, even watching the video, I I could probably close my eyes and do the video in my my mind without any help. We have probably been out to
40 to 50 um locations throughout the district. We've been multiple times to the boards of selectmen and King Kong. We have done all of the COAs. Uh we went to the Aushet um Lions Club. I believe
>> you did. >> That was one at Danny's. Um we have anybody who's asked us, we've been there. You know, we're we are working diligently and exhaustively to get the message out. But to the point you made,
you have to be an informed V voter. Um and the decision is a personal decision for each household. I know you've talked about um the burden on the taxpayer in a cushion it I live in the town of
Rochester. You want to see a burden on the taxpayer? We have I don't know if you put that that slide up. We have just about half of your student population and we're paying less
than $100 um on your on the tax rate because Rochester has absolute well other than one large commercial facility. We don't. Everything comes off the the backs of the taxpayer and the
taxpayer individually needs. I get sometimes because I'm a senior I get offended sometimes when people say it's difficult for seniors and and I'm in total agreement. It's difficult for seniors. It's difficult for everybody. You know, when you're young, you have a
mortgage, you have family, it's difficult. When you're a senior, I'm a senior on a fixed income. Uh it's difficult. The decision is it has to be personal. You have to do what's right for you. But I have been working for a
very long time volunteering on in public education and I wholeheartedly believe in public education. It's public education because it's paid for by the public. the state comes in and they help
us with chapter 70 and maybe on a good year you get 80% of your regional transportation even though they promised you 100%. When they you know we're trying to get schools to regionalize people again people have to do what they
feel best but it's a decision that yes every every town has a say. Uh, I hope everybody comes out and has their say, but ultimately you have to do what's right for you and your town. And
ultimately, I'm going to ask you to do what's right for your children. You know, um, the nice thing about being appointed to Oolony is that you are appointed and I have publicly said my constituency, I'm not
the adults in the room. My constituency is the students in the room. And while I have a fiduciary responsibility to the town of Rochester and in a situation like this, I have a fiduciary responsibility to every member district
of the district. I will always go back to my primary responsibility is to my constituency and those are the students. I have personally I have to do what's best for the kids. >> Thank you
Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. >> Hi John Tabs. Uh one glorious way. Um I'll be fast. Um somebody have a calculator. Got a phone. Bobby, you got a phone?
>> What do you need? Their operations budget for next year is going to be 16 million and divide that by roughly 554 students. What do you get, Bobby? >> 488.
>> That's that's how much it costs to send a kid to Old Colony. And the discrepancy happens when on the town, they put a 3% increase on their
operating budget and the state doesn't put a 3% on what they're given, then the gap, they could put a 3% on it and then a cushion that gets a 9%. for example. So I think to Gasparrow that could be
where you're saying where's this off because our trajectory is like this and yours is like this. What's going on? Could be. I don't know. >> And then this debt. >> I just want to make sure. When did you get those numbers, sir? >> Do you have >> No, no. You just went percent percent.
Did you calculate that or you just speculated? >> No. I'm just I mean I was on a school committee and >> and sometimes when when they were like, "Hey, you've got a 3% we're we're presenting a 3% um budget increase." I said, "Well, that's not a 3% to the town of Aushnet.
That's more like a seven or 8% to the town of Aushnet after we get our state money, the amount that the town of Aushnit needs to add and pay year to year goes up substantially higher than um than the overall budget." >> So, Mr. could just just on your point I
think when you talk about percentages right so I always tell people in you know the school departments regardless of what school department is I don't care if you're in Timbuktu and you come in your budget's $15 million you say but I'm only up 3%
>> really that's a lot of a lot of money compared to this guy that's got a $1 million budget and he's up or she's up 3% right so I don't like using percentages when I try to talk to the people of a cushion the taxpayers of a cushion because they get a little confused on, oh, they're only up 3%, but
3% of $15 million is a lot of money, right? >> Versus somebody else with a million dollar budget going up the same 3%. They're like, what are they arguing about? That guy's up 3%, they're up 3%. Everybody's whole. Million, right? So, the number when you just ask Mr. Hley, you break out the calculator and you
jump to next year's $16 million. If that's the anticipated number, let's just go with what we know, which is this year's budget, operating budget that we're in right now. Their budget was $15 million right? >> Yeah. This 27 grand, >> right? So just call it 20. So that number again, I just don't want the
people that are watching and anybody being at home skewed on what that cost is. So it's true. That number is true. $27,000. However, the the real number after chapter 70 is $17,901. >> Right. 18.
>> So that's what the that's the average of all five towns, correct? >> Okay. I break out and I do every town. I'm just that guy. >> No, no, the average for all five member towns is 17,901. So if the number was 27, you're getting roughly 9,000 bucks,
>> right? >> Per student, right, from chapter 70, correct? >> And things of the like. >> Correct. But it it all comes from tax dollars. >> It's John. It comes down to the same thing I just talked about. Everybody's a bunch of drunken sailors. Not saying anything about the people in this room or our own town departments.
Everything's costing more money. It it it it's paralyzing >> with with the debt exclusion. >> Mhm. >> And assuming we go out to 776 students. Okay. That cost per student is 116 a year. So you add that onto the 20. What did we
just say? 27. We're at 39ish. So that's if it were me and um and and like that's what I'd be working on. Just FYI, BP for example
with their debt exclusion with their operating is at 277 per student next year. That's with the debt. >> When was that project approved? We voted on >> about I think that was four years. >> Four years ago. 2021. I I would love to
live in 4 years ago numbers and four years ago that's >> for everything for everything. >> BP's operating per student was below $24,000. >> Understood. But still, I mean, just like I would love to live back in >> No, no, no. I'm talking about today.
It's a $4,000 difference between what we pay for OC child and and a and a BP child. What what all I'm saying is if it were me, I would focus on that because that's what's going to be important. We talk
about like the high school options, the tuition that's paid to the other high schools is is substantially less than what we're paying to to OC, >> but it's a different type of education. >> It does. No, I'm not I'm not I'm not arguing that is getting at is the operational budget impact that this
could have >> correct to our overall annual annual budget. I I I don't disagree with that, but I think with all due respect, you're talking in generalities and I think it's really important to be intentional when we have a conversation
that we're talking about like if you and I, again, I'm glad you're here and you're on the school committee and I respect that, but you know, just like I'm holding I'm trying to hold myself to a standard of not talking about potential um actions to drive down the costs, whether like we talked about the
PP or potential additional reimbursement. I think it's just really important to make sure that we talk not in generalities but really drill down on it because it can be very misleading. I get it. You're you're opposed to the project. >> No, no, no. >> You're opposed to what's going on, right?
>> No. >> And but I that's how I've taken it. I just want to make sure we're on the same page here with you. >> No. I think I think it's it's it's um it's been an opportunity to kind of look at the the idea that it's it's a um it's
a very expensive uh proposition. >> We also have to look at the fact that right now we're in negotiations with other towns for our high school student constraint. So the number discrepancy that you use around $4,000 could be drastically different after these
negotiations and could certainly be a lot closer. I I completely agree. I completely agree. >> When Mr. Wnar over there is talking about, you know, we can't talk about generalities like that and come out with specific numbers and try and use them.
We can't use a $4,000 when we don't know what tomorrow's going to be with what we have or have available. So, I was going to make some comments actually based like I thought were positive because if you if there is a discrepancy, it's there's a difference in the the students and then the lottery is actually going
to decrease the amount that you get sent there. It actually improves some of the the operations, >> right? Because the operation budgets like you had said before, we're not adding the numbers on to the 28. The numbers are going to be less per student because your operating expenditures over more students.
>> No, no, no. >> That's what he said earlier. >> No, that's not true. possible. >> It's gonna go up. >> We have really good questions to get. >> Excuse me. >> Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. >> I'm not going to argue with you. >> Point of point of order.
>> Bob, you're coming at me. Point of order. >> My concern is come at you. I'm not going to come at you. Point of order. May I finish? I'm going to say something. >> Just ask me that I should let you. >> If you want to, you can. But point of order. I would like to bring something up that I'm noticing across social media, across this room, and I wish
everybody was here to explain. And I think it's going to explain what is happening here. And I don't think it goes against you, Mr. Tabs, or anybody else that spoke. I think it's actually going to be beneficial to everybody and it has no implication or opinion at all.
>> I'm going to give you the floor, >> but I'm going to finish what I was saying until you said I'm welcome to leave. >> Okay, Pete, stop bringing it up. >> But Bob, you said it, okay? >> Is that we've got back and forth conversations and now we have misinformation. So to my point of when
we're I'm asking people who are in this forum >> y >> to speak with specific facts to avoid this. Now the floor is yours. That was what I was suggesting. >> Okay. >> So you already said that and I appreciate that. I value that. What I'm noticing across social media, across
this room, everybody who spoke tonight, anybody that seems to ask a question that isn't even the tiniest little bit against this because it's perceived as against this, asking operational budget questions, asking overall project costs, none of this
should be perceived as against the project. These are valid questions that the taxpayers of Kushnet have been talking about for months and months and months, saying, "How is this going to impact me? Is my mother going to lose her house? >> I don't have the answer to that because we don't know what each person can do.
What I will say is and I don't appreciate is when somebody asks a question to try to get to the bottom of what our actual operational cost is going to be, people get defensive and that needs to stop because it's not because they're against the project. And I'm not using Mr. TZ as an example.
Anybody who's talked to me in the last six months has asked these questions and I'm watching it online and people are vultures and they're screaming at each other. It's honest to ask questions to get to the bottom of it and I just saw it with you and I don't mean to get I
didn't mean I apologize how I reacted to that. What I noticed when Mr. Ste started talking about budgets, you got a little defensive, Pete, I know you didn't mean to, but you're saying this is not how it goes. This isn't this. He's asking a question and I I think he's using numbers that
definitely need some refinement here, but all he's asking is what is the operational implication on the town and everybody has been asking that across the board. So yeah, you're going to have a $700 average hit your tax bill based on $500,000 or so.
>> Over the course of the last maybe three to four years, our annual increase to our operational budget is between 750 and 850. Yeah, >> if everything else is going up 3%. >> And we haven't budged.
>> This is what I think we got to look at. This is the important part. And this is no by no means me saying I'm against this project. This isn't me saying I'm for this project. What this is saying is what's going to happen in five years to our annual budget. Obviously, we
don't have a giant revenue stream that's going to pop up tomorrow. So, we have to look at it this way. And I think back and forth between for or against is automatically assumed good questions and that needs to stop. Our job is to help answer these questions and not get
defensive, not have an opinion based on it. This is it. It's just what's point A, what's point B, what's it going to cost everybody and how do we get there? That's it. where where I was thinking about you and uh I'm going to jump in just because where I was going with this
was I I was saying I think that this process is an opportunity for us to look at the operational cost on a go forward basis for the education that we're providing in this town. It's a big line item. Um and this is we're addressing
one school that's going to take on 40 to 50 kids a year. >> 200 new new students new students new students 40 to 50 new students per year I think that's what he said with the lottery right >> it would be based on the new size of the
school we talked about 200 extra students we have the capacity about 550 going to 750 I know Aaron used 749 which is the minus one which drives >> going from 560 to 776 >> 776 yeah >> some wacky number right it's off by a one digit but who cares let's just call
it For the sake of this discussion, I like keeping things simple, right? 200 additional students. You have five member towns. If each one got an additional, that would be 40 students, right? We're currently floating anywhere between the 185 number up to 210 is what a cushion does. Just call it 200
>> averaged out, right? So maybe we go up 40 students. you we keep talking about operational and in the first meeting in September 9th when I said it would be an automatic forced override for the operational budget. That is a true statement. No matter how you want to cut and slice
this, you're not cutting services to the degree of trying to balance budgets when we get to full capacity in five or six years down the road. Okay. When I said when I talked about 15 additional um you know teachers with academic in shop, I just talked to Chad. Is it Chad? And I
asked them, I said when m when the second meeting came in, yeah, I think it's October 27th. I might be wrong on that date, but I know the first one is September 9th. And they put up, they didn't answer the question fully, but they put up and they gave me what the beta was between all the things. And the charges gave me something about 30 extra
um teachers >> huh >> at five buses. >> Let's forget about transportation. We only I only tried answering the question that couldn't be answered on September 9th. So on 100 grand including health insurance might be more might be a little less for different ones positions let's just float it 100 grand again easy
math so I said 15 it's closer to 30 so times that same 100 that's 3 million bucks okay that basically answers the question of just teachers I don't know about anything else that would be added in and janitorial and things of the like so it's not just teachers 30 new
teachers operational for headcount right to do to provide the services they need to would add in the new schools. It's roughly three million bucks. >> We're missing a big piece of that though. It's the chapter 7 and chapter 78. >> So yeah, then you get the reimbursement back of the chapter 7.
>> And you're right, we we don't know that's going to go up 3% every year. Probably not. Um but we do know that the aid follows the students. So that's that's the big piece that completes the puzzle, I think, that you're trying to paint. Yes, costs go up 3% annually. No, aid probably doesn't go up 3% annually,
but between now and the 776 condition, you've added 40% enrollment capacity. So, your aid is going to increase based on your student headcount. That's what takes us from the 14.78% increase in the status quo in FY34 to the 6.04%.
>> And that is so that's your your 3 million versus the delta that you see up there. Is that >> right? So, basically 40% on a student. Surely is that a close number based on what we just did to be honest with you on that. >> So if it's 40% just basically take off 1.2 from the three. So you're back to
>> Okay. Right. Right. >> 1.8. >> There you go. >> Additional costs on the backs of taxpayers including the chapter 70 from the 3 million bucks if that's the all-in number. It might be a little less, might be a little bit more. Just all I'm trying to do is guess to give people an idea. >> But it it you know,
>> let's just let's just say all we were doing was the debt exclusion. We talked about that number. They put up a number of 721 or something per household. The average I did some math on, you know what I have broken out cost per $100,000
of $500,000 home is like $630. You get to an $800,000 home, that number goes to $1,100 >> just for the debt exclusion, no operational impact, right? So just to give people an idea, that's really what you're looking at. And then once few
years down the road we'll be talking operational cost and that'll be a whole different ballgame and it will be extremely I think Mr. Bush mentioned it. It will be extremely difficult because the operational and the way the we still use the aggregate wealth method for
budget reasons here. So with with that that I'll call it a floating device on how the state calculates everything and how they derive to their numbers for each member town and each student that goes in that aggregate wealth method. Um, there's no way to say your
budget cost is going to be fixed at $200,000 a year. Every year it's going to be floating. So, how do we manage that for 30 years? I I don't know. Do we just go at maximum capacity and say this is what it is or whatever you don't use, you keep on the sideline? I don't have
that answer on how that would impact us. I guess we could talk to Miss Books. would probably know better about that or other schools that have done these kind of things and ask them how you float that into the equation and calculate for future budgetary reasons. >> Sure. I thought if nothing else
regardless of what happens right through the vote, I thought I thought it was an opportunity to take a look at that on a go forward basis because I think it's a it's an important it's an important metric to know like what what are we paying um per student for for the education at
this time. I think I think that's important. I think we just delivered those answers tonight. No. What's that? >> I think we just delivered those answers tonight. No. >> What do you mean? >> Are you trying to confuse me now? >> No, no, no. There's there's two there's
two numbers. There's the cost, right? And then and then there's the numbers that there's the amount that the town of a cushion needs to contribute to that cost. >> I thought I just gave you that number >> on a on a on a rough basis. I mean, I'm as smart as everybody may be, nobody can go boom. No, we're on we're on OC, but
>> I I think I'm doing a pretty good job of giving you >> a basic roundabout number and and I'm willing to come back in four years and say I was pretty damn close, wasn't I? >> Yeah, maybe. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> You're welcome. So, can we speak to one
other question that uh he had? So, the $4,000 delta between BP and OC. So, remember that's OC's worst case scenario when we run these projections. There's no IRA money in there. There's no fast save money in there. That's 11 million off the 159 right from the start. Uh
also bid savings, contingency savings, all that stuff we've talked about previously. Another big piece is efficiency of scale. So if you look at the operating cost projection that we had on the slide a moment ago, the operating cost per student in the future condition is similar to what the operating cost per pupil is in the
present condition. BP has 1454 student design enrollment. So part of the reason their operational cost per student is lower is they have that scale of efficiency in their programs, >> right? It's a dilution factor though, >> right? And you see that in old colonies too. So we we ran that number out and we
said, "Okay, so cushion share and OCFY34, we just use a straight 40% increase. We don't think it's going to be that, but that's probably a worst case scenario." Uh we were $4.68 million. So that translated uh if you took 40% student population increase
which again shouldn't say 271 students uh per pupil for cushion at $17,338. We can compare that if we go back historically. So we know today a cushion sending students to New Befford was at 12,479. We can go back 9 years in the past and
know that was $8,983. So it's increased 39% in those 9 years. If you take that same number today, that 12,000 and throw it forward 9 years, you're at exactly where Sarah and the business office are on their numbers in
old column. So, it's not a function of I think old colony per se. It's a function of its economy and its escalation and its things that you've already spoken to. Sir, >> good evening. Can Sylvia Northwest
street and Kushnet selectman Gasper is correct today's time it's crazy it's crazy the cost of doing anything today superintendent Palaski mentioned 10 years ago Upper Cape Cod Tech was built at $188 million
today 10 years later O' Connie is looking to build a a facility a new state-of-the-art facility $288 million. Let's just regress a minute and think back in the early '7s. A concept and a vision was thought of to
build a state-of-the-art building in the woods of a Kushnet vocational technical high school for the students of the communities that they're serving. Can you think of how the people then
thought how are we going to pay for this? Same question today. Back then the price of a dozen eggs 77. The price of a pound of hamburger
28 cents a pound. Today it's crazy. Minimum wage back then was a $160 an hour. Through the 50 years that Old Colony has successfully been educating our students, thousands of students have
graduated from Old Colony. Selectman Gaspar being one of those graduates. Look at him today. He's been a selectman here town of Aushnet for many years. You look at a project like this,
one thing at the October 27th meeting that stood out to me was the board of selectmen and the finance committee saying how transparent old colony has been throughout
this uh talking about the new school. They have been transparent with everything. They said you can look at line items one by one by one. We've heard this. We understand this. So, they're not trying
to pull wool over anybody's eyes. We're looking at a $288 million facility. We're looking at credits that total up to quite a bit of money. and we're looking at 148.7
million on the taxpay payable rule. Well, we can't afford a $288 million project. 148 seems a lot better than 288 million. It's a lot cheaper than the $188 million
school that was built in Upper Cape. Cost repairs for the existing building which is busting at it seems. It's obsolete. It's antiquated. There's too many systems there that need to be replaced.
Gentleman spoke about the interruption of education of the children. As he mentioned, you start cutting up walls, start cutting up floors, that disrupts the education role for our students. If we do not do anything whatsoever and
vote no, it's going to cost the town's 134.3 million to get started. We know that that's going to go well over that figure. If we wait five years and try it again,
are we looking at another 40 $50 million added to today's figures? Probably with what's going on today. Who knows? 30-year bond for uh bond 44% interest. You can't go to the bank and borrow that
kind of money. And a loan on a new car is 4.99 and that's pretty cheap. You can get more money for that. Someone mentioned that selecting a gas spot $800 $800,000 home
is going to cost you about $1,100 in additional taxes. Someone at the last meeting was saying that they're worried about paying $1,200 in taxes. Well, I guess their home is worth more than $800,000.
I don't know. Anyway, >> um, Selectman Gaspar mentioned that we treat Old Colong as our high school, and we should because it has been for 50 years. It served our communities well. Well, we
should look at it as a high school as well. And let's not put band-aids on trying to repair the facility. Let's look it straight forward and get a new school, a new building, receive the
tax credits that we can receive and move forward. Um, one thing that I thought was very nice last meeting, selecting Gaspar mentioned that the things that really get to his heart
are the little children and the seniors. Well, the little children are today's children and tomorrow's children going to Old Colony. We have no other high school. Sure, we have a number of seats in Fair Haven and
I believe New Bedford, but they're limited. As I was writing up my notes, and I'm trying to keep this brief yesterday, I realized that I'm a senior citizen as well. So, I'm glad he has me
in his time. Means a lot to me. So, just to keep it short, it's late. I'm asking for the vote of the town of Aushnet to move forward with this project. I'm
asking for the communities that are with us in this project to move forward and let's figure out a way of how we're going to pay for it. We've been going we've been chased like a little dog chasing this tail around everyone around. Who's going to pay for this? Who's going to pay for that? Well,
>> think about 50 plus years ago when they had the same scenario. We need to come up with some initiatives as to how to get more money into the towns, all towns. I don't know if the
towns collaborate with each other and discuss these matters, but maybe now is the time that they need to do this and maybe now is the time that they need to address the state department. We know
the federal is federal government is selecting gas asset is out of control. >> Has been has been for decades. >> It has. We can't wait another 5 10 years and see
well you know we spent $135 million maybe $150 million by then at a school that's 50 60 70 years old now and it's falling apart. So
I think we need a yes vote. We need to forge forward for our children and our children's children. Thank you very much. Just so I'm consistent. There are a couple things. The upper Cape project was 128 million, not 188 million. So I
just wanted to make sure people >> Oh, okay. >> So I just wanted to make sure that >> Okay. I thought, you know, I was happy to hear because no one was talking. >> Fair enough. I just thought I'm a little at this st stage of the game, believe it or not, I'm a little hard of feeling >> sometimes that can be a good thing. >> What?
>> That can be a good thing. >> This is true. >> Anyway, thank you very much. Appreciate you listening. >> Anything else? >> All right. >> Can I make just one comment? >> Sure. >> Um on behalf of the building committee,
um your time has been gracious, Miss Addison, a few times. I don't want anything to be perceived as though this is adversarial. The um comment before um that was made
is you need to be informed to make a decision and that's what this is all about. You know we may not always agree but it is the notion of being informed so you can make the best decision for yourself. So on behalf of
the building committee, I thank you for allowing us to to come here uh to be receptive to asking difficult questions because it's a difficult I remember sitting with FIMCOM um the budget planning last year
and talking about how the budget is is difficult and we tried to accommodate uh and we and we believe we did accommodate. So it's always a collaborative effort but um Again, everybody does what's best as long as
they're informed and make a an informed decision. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Shirley. You said it best. Um, and it is the people's decision, right? You need to get that out the message out regardless how you feel one way or another. Cast
your vote. It's the only way it matters. The one thing that I don't want to hear from people is we didn't hear it. We didn't know anything about it. >> Um, that message needs to get pushed around. how we do that at a faster pace with one week left to go. I I talked about putting it up on the signs if anybody's driving around with their eyes
open. Hopefully, they'll see that stuff, right? But I will say this to you, Shirley, I've known you for a long, long time, and I've worked with that woman for for quite a while. We've always worked really well together, and we've we've had our, you know, debates back and forth when it comes to budget discussions back in the day. Um, but I
can tell you this, regardless of the outcome, we're going to figure it out one way or another, we will figure it out, right? Um, you know, we got a lot of smart people in the town of the Kushner. I'm sure that all the other member towns have a lot of smart people as well. So, regardless of if if how this comes out, we'll figure out, you
know, a way of of making the school making the school a better place. >> I hope so, Kevin, because we owe it to our children to figure it out. >> Is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So, move. >> Second. All those in favor. >> Finance committee motion to adjurnn. >> Second.
>> All in favor? All right.