##VIDEO ID:eRDsubXQnRE## [Music] hey this public heing is now called to order at 6:00 p.m. on January 15 2025 this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth and act relative to the protection of the wetlands as most recently amended notice the time and place to this hearing was published in the faen neighborhood news on January 9th 2025 it was also posted in the town clerk's office persons wishing to be heard will be called in the following order uh this meeting is being audio and video recorded first order business uh no minutes for approval uh meeting mail letter received from ever Source regarding underground electric distribution line installation work located on on either side of approximately 7 700t long segment of halfway Road reviewer matter is presented votes may be taken uh I think I read through this I don't know I don't know if you guys got this um essentially it just says that they are exempt right is am I right yeah it's pretty much it's it's exempt work within there uh right away across the street so we'll keep that on on file um old business contined public hearing notice of attendant Lake Street New beit Reservoir Lakes 1 2 and 4 map 3 lot 13 map 4 lot 49 map 19 lot 32 SC file number 001 0595 a notice of intent was filed by James Kelly Town town of ACC cushion for the property located at Nord Reservoir Lakes 1 2 and 4 the applicant proposes the removal at the root of invasive Wheats from areas of the new Beford Reservoir Lakes 1 12 and 4 located in a cushion it using an Eco Harvester the applicant is represented by Scott dag at Lake Street Improvement committee um this meeting has been continued to January 29th 2025 review of matters presented votes may be taken um I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing so moved second all those in favor um I'll entertain a motion to continue this until January 29th 2025 per the request of Scott dagg motion to continue second all those in favor I I that's continued till January 29th um I should probably open and continue the next one as well right yeah I agree continue public hearing uh notice of attend in storm water for Whit's Farm uh 211 Middle Road map 23 Lots 29 9 29a 29b SE file number 001 0596 notice in stor Water application was F filed by Zachary Parks Middle Road a cushion at Sola LLC for property located at 211 Middle Road map 23 Lots 29 29a and 29b the applicant proposes to construct a ground mounted solar array on a portion of the Open Fields within the property located at 211 Middle Road in the cushion net work is limited to the 100ft buff Zone to ordering vegetated Wetland and Bank the applicant is represented by Sarah ER BS and Thomas plan name is Middle Road PB Solar Development dated September 10th 2024 again this meeting has been continued to this is a different meeting to the February 12th 2025 meeting review of matters taken I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing motion to open second all those in favor um I'll entertain a motion to continue this public hearing until the February 12th 2025 meeeting motion to continue all in favor ask continue to the February 12 meeting okay continue public hearing notice of attent deep Brook States LLC P Drive in deep Rook Drive map 17 and 18 Lots 66 68 70 73 74 75 77 79 80 81 83 84 and lots 18 18g 12s and 12r SE file number 01 0598 a notice of intent was filed by Deep Brook Estates LLC for property located at Park Drive and deep Brook Drive ACC cushion at Mass deep Brook Estates the applicant proposes to finish construction on two subdivision roadways and drainage for the development of a 15 lot single family residential subdivision within the 100 foot buffer zone to a ordering vegetated Wetland due to an expired order of conditions the applicant is represented by Jamie biss Zenith Consulting Engineers LLC plan name is deep Brook Estates definitive subdivision plan off Park Drive of cushion of mass dated October 24th 2017 review of matters presented votes may be taken I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing motion to open second all those in favor I I how you doing I'm doing great thank you Mr chairman uh my name is Bob Forbes from Zenith Consulting Engineers and I'm here with Joe Costello who is the uh applicant um so as people on the board may know the the permit that they were working with was an active permit for years and it expired um it expired in November of uh 23 um and so we filed um we filed the the NOS intent to uh to reactivate the permit in I believe October of this year um then in November of this year the governor signed a Perman extension act extending um and reactivating permits that were active during the from in either 2023 or 2024 essentially so um the permit what we've submitted I don't believe the commission needs to act on uh we've got an extension for that uh for that permit and um we wanted to talk to you about two things number one uh how do we move forward on that and number two also uh for the um somew permit that they were issued that the commission issued them um there's an issue about the bond the bond that's going to be required for the maintenance of the basins so um what they'd like to do um uh so what this permanent extension act does it extends two years from the from the date that it expired so in other words they're active they're going to be re they're reactivated essentially until November of this coming fall um and in order to get the work done in that time frame they need to get going so we're not exactly sure if you guys have received any guidance on how we go about moving forward at this time um Joe would like to get the the contractor moving soon um to to start doing work um and we're not exactly clear on how to go about doing that if we just I don't know if we just go out there and start working or what I think from what I understand from other boards the state has said they're going to issue some guidance to yeah I talked to um Whitney MC at the EP and the last time I talked to her they didn't have any guidance but based on my conversation with Town Council tonight um I'm going to go ahead and say that everybody's under the assumption that that this took effect immediately okay so with my conversation with Whitney mcle I asked about this situation and she said it was under the Wetland protection act I forget it's like section 883m mened was that you have to request to withdraw this for this so yeah we weren't sure if we needed to do that and we were almost hesitant to do it in case they required some type of filing uh that we've already done like so we don't what we didn't want to do is withdraw with at this time you have an active order of conditions and you can't have two okay okay so yeah we I think that's the way we'd like to go as as long as is is okay if we continue to discuss the B issue even if we don't yeah that's that's that's an issue that needs to be resolved I mean I I that's beyond op perview really you know right um do do we do I need to do that in writing do I need to send a letter to withdraw can we just ask you I I would send I would send a letter but we can I mean we can either continue this if you guys really want to come back or we could make a motion contingent on receipt of the letter correct sounds good okay so um you got you guys that's is however you guys wanted to handle I received the email from Joe about the bond issue and um I'm sure the town and well she can look in somebody in town can look into it and then also I know I could probably direct them to some people that have gotten bonds for their St water basins too get that information we could get we get one to to construct it they're just not willing to give a maintenance Bond until the basins are constructed so that's what kind of in a yeah which kind of makesense situation know how much because I want to I want to say most of the bonds that were issued to the town were at the I don't know if they're at the completion of the project no they uh no cuz look at yeah yeah prior I don't know if that they I don't I think they I think they're in the same boat as them with their yeah with their bond I don't think they have a bond on that so we wouldn't do that through this board is what you're saying well it is through us with the along with the permit but we don't physically deal with the bonds it's through the's office or treasur we were just hoping that the um uh the town or whoever would deal with it in the town would entertain the possibility of us completing the basins and then uh getting the because that's what we're being told by the insurance companies so uh is the way that they would considered doing it I mean the time that I spent speaking with Mr Castello this week trying to help him the best I can um I know we don't have the operation maintenance plan filed and the past conservation agent when we took storm water over said I had to file that but I didn't wasn't able to file until we had the shy inut so that guidance is gone now right I don't know who else the get answer is from I mean M's going to try to research some too so I started poking around a little bit as well again it's it's I'm happy to try to do a little research um talk to um the town the issue independent of of this project came up earlier today in a meeting so I got a little input there but I can reach I I know this isn't is urgent so I can try to help you out okay thank you yes I don't know the ex it is kind of a a conundrum that you got yeah it's not thing we're not fighting it you know we're just we can't we can't do what would that be something the DP could give advis us for it's not a it's nothing to do with the DP correct exactly yes through the town but it's stor it's oh it's for a Bas it's not state law it's only uh bylaw it's a town by as far as I know it's only it's only this town I've been doing this for 36 years and I I had to have this whole thing explained to me today before I did the meeting so it's uh it's only in aate thing wasn't in the bylaw it's definitely not in any state no it's in our town by law yeah but the that question isn't answered through the bylaw I'm saying she's all right so we'll we'll work on we'll work on that for you okay great getting you better answers appreciate it for that um expedited I understand that and so for this this item um I guess I'll entertain a motion to accept the withdrawal of the notice 710 SE file number 001 0598 contingent on a letter submitted to the commission requesting withdrawal I'll make that motion to withdraw second all those in favor all right so that's all set and we'll work on the other stuff for you thank you thank you very much good Lu I'll try to get some answers for you too you're all done tonight no I know I I oh you're all done you're all done I know yeah no let everyone know you're all don't be saying you're going to be working for the commission when you're not no no not working for the commission but I'm saying like like people in town that I know that have had basins installed at the house I can say hey give Joe cell a call give him information I did provide him with a copy of um one of the other ones hay in bfield yeah I I did give him a i whed out everything of course right I sent it to Mr Castello and he's kind of got some answers like different and so I would say either you know I don't know if you know Mark fris you could talk to him he put in a basin and Rob Rodricks over there that's the one I S to him yeah yeah I did speak to Mark and he said cuz his was a private road y slightly different than this one becoming a public road okay and I think this is the only maybe one of the only ones that at the moment going through this at the moment so they all I even checked with um was Philadelphia and we checked with four or five other shy companies and they all said when the Project's complete then we can give you a maintenance Bond we can't give you a maintenance Bond on something that's not Done Yet right that's all and I bet you this is just something we just didn't kind of Envision the steps needed when this was put in place right then I don't think we haven't had any other Basin in this situation like that right I was still learn well maybe uh the commission can you know work something out with the Commission in the future thank you appreciate that have a good evening guys thank you very much good night thank you thank you okay um next order business continued extension of order of conditions Eric de Barrow's halfway road map 14 Lot 4C SE file number 001 0570 a request for an extension to an existing order of conditions was filed for SE file number 001 0570 for property located at halfway road map 14 Lot 4C the applicant proposes to construct a single family dwelling septic system in 12T wide gravel driveway along with 50t by 80t Bond garage storage garage southernly from the dwelling within the 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated Wetland the applicant is represented by Dave thean of sh the Leon plan name is sewage Disposal system site plan for hathway Road dated November 18 2021 revised December 10th 2021 review matters presented votes may be taken accuse myself pleas okay for accusing what's going on ladies and gentlemen so after just state your name just to go through the yeah yeah just go through the T 21 way I guess we use my regular address um so after doing some research and talking to so sorry guys um some people with more knowledged and mind it was advised that I continued and asked for the um extension so I'm going to ask for the three-year extension but now would that whole two nois and the extent of that come into play at all what what is that so it wouldn't be considered a new noi right it would be just your per no your permit is extended for two years based on the permit extension Act advised to continue and ask for the three-year extension I'd like to say something on that CH so a lot of times we sit here and I know I'm not the only one on this member that says if someone had three years and you're looking for another three how do you make them accelerate take a year off I think two years is what we should extend you for and let you do some work within the three years that you've owned the property not a lot was done um and I just feel going forward there should be a little bit of an acceleration to it and with an acceleration that's why I say I'm making a motion that Eric Gets A 2-year extension I'll second that motion all right there's a motion in a second um so we just think about this for a second so he's automatically going to get a twoyear and you don't have to go to the registry adid to do that so come back at the end of the expiration and not pay anything for recording right now so that's just I don't really like the amount of money that I've already gone through trying to deal with this whole situation 150 bucks isn't going to bother I'm just trying to say that so the reason being is just I got advised from hire that I should continue to ask for the 3 years if you guys don't want to grb me that 3 years for whatever reason if you don't think it's going fast enough or it's not doing that's all up to you but at the end of the day that's what I was advised to do and I understand it and the thing is is I've said it to a lot of other permit extension requests too and I'm not the only one on this board the only one on the board that said that if you go with another three years that gives you six if we give you two and you put a little acceleration to it and it's easy it's like you come back I got the garage in I got this in I got that in if in two years from now you got nothing done then we're right back where we are again that's the only way I look at it and I'm the only one I'm the only one that looks at this well but one question would he still be eligible for an extension at the end of the the state I I think you're only what the perm extension yeah yes yeah right I I would I'm sure he can come back for another extension exactly well no I think I you only there was something take automatic that's what I'm getting at whereas you know advised not to for some reason but can we even do that right it's automatically extended I already considered everything to that talking to people to lawyers extend it more that's that's why I was curious about the guidance if it's already if it's already extended you're you're essentially don't even have to be you're asking for an extension earlier than you need to because it's already extended really to me all my hands are tied I got hit with it last you could then you could come to us and ask us for a threeyear extension in in two years in two years right that's that's that was my thought process behind it orally I thought I was just going to originally I thought I was going to wave it get the extra two and then carry on but there was a little loophole that brought to my attention and that it was advised for me that not to go for the three I I don't even know how I write that up I don't I don't think it doesn't yeah Bill we're looking for you what kind of information I mean I've just involved Bill Madden from GF I've just involved been involved with a couple of extensions recently based on that permanent extension act thing and to me I think it's an automatic extension of of two years and um then when that 2year time frame is exhausted you 30 days prior to the expiration date of that two-year time frame I think the applicant can request a three-year extension you of the original order sure that's what I was I understand I mean would only make sense I've been advised many times wrong before it wouldn't be the first time I'd be wrong again well nobody ever right now your your permit is active until 2027 I understand 16 oh I I'm on the same page I was advised not to and I was advised to ask for a my extension and then only unexpired orders of conditions or extensions may be extended so that's not the case anymore it's like it doesn't apply right right yeah I mean the state definitely needs to I think this might be the reason why they asked me to do it because it's not all figured out yet so it's in my best interest to just get get the EXP extens B don't based on my conversation with Town Council that is it is enacted no I know according from what I read as soon as she signed it it was immediately act right yeah so from what I understood and what I read from the law and I went through it piece by piece and I had time to do like I said I was going to do and then after talking to the other people they had a couple other concerns just like all we do right now and they said it was in the smartest the smartest thing would be to do would be to continue to ask for my threeyear cuz it's not going to hurt nothing I'll just get my year now and then I presented to them that it might be I was looking at it as I was not no longer gaining two years that way but then I could be there was some there's all kinds of other ifs that are involved and with um nobody really knowing either way exactly it's just a way to it's just a way to be cautious and to hold my own save my own back um also there's isn't there in the isn't it in the bylaw I mean in the law that states as long as this but see then even if it's opened I can if it was continued it would still be valid cuz I'm up what next week the 19 no end this it's it's not up but no it would be up because it's already so maybe you're you're already covered till 27 like you said yeah so right now I don't know that's do you want to get do you want to get a second opinion and I me well I already did and this is what they told me to do I'm not doing with the problem this is what they just had to go for the 3 years but you're technically not even expired right well it what technically it would be on the 19th but now with the no I didn't see anything in the law stating that this situation either I was like I don't know but I mean we all feel you get to the 27 yeah 27 right so with that being said you really don't even need an extension right now because you're granted the two years but if you are asking for extension before that before you're saying that two-year kicks in I still agree with the two-year that's my own personal opinion yeah we already know you want that's and I think it's premature to ask for the for the threee when the two years not even expired until 2027 that's my opinion I don't I don't know I I well I have as many questions as you guys I just got the phone call a little while ago I was like what do you mean like I mean there's there's a motion in a second on the floor but it based on my conversation with Town Council is there's an automatic two-year extension so now what if we go through with it and it now there then then the this commission is going to have a lot more work to do because we we just eliminated well this eliminated a lot you know I mean a lot of litigation is being handled because of this extension act oh I understand so I mean if that's all that's all that's the only advice I got for you you can make your own decision on how you want to proceed but I everything is under the assumption same thing with they just they just uh remove their notice of intent they just I understand I'm not the one in I'm not the one that's denying it it was others that were and then some people aren here right now okay so what do you so I don't know I'm my to TI too I I'm not the one at right now honestly supposed to have the answer I didn't have no time to research what I got told because it doesn't make sense it says you can only unexpired orders of conditions may be extended it's not expired anymore right and it's with you do it within 30 days so I I think this it has to be no less than it says no less no less 30 days 30 days it does not say I couldn't do it right after if I wanted to it says no l right right it doesn't say you can't do it you can't hold an go in for an extension a year before yeah which you can yeah and then if there's any problems you have time to address them problems it doesn't State anything the only thing thing it states is that you have to do it no less than 30 days prior right which I started it more than that and now I don't know another curveball but you're not expired yeah I you're not expired I understand I think you're you're you're already under the same permit until 27 and and I think you know come back and ask for two years in 27 that would be my honest my honest opinion was going to be the same I I don't know I to be honest I don't care whatever you guys as long as you guys back it but I don't want to hear oh well you know in two years oh well right you know you know this went on now you're not coming I don't want to hear it no I know but we we just sent an applicant out with the same same scenario scenario and he wasn't as concerned as I am but the thing is too Eric if you listen to in she don't even know how to write this because she can only write it on an expired and that is irrelevant for my problem no it isn't cuz you're not you got two more years I know I all right we're already going over this again all I'll say it again it wasn't my decision this is what I was advised to do I really don't know like I just said as long as everybody on this board is willing to honor it who says anybody's going to even be here I have no problem doing it at all I hope to be alive we have the end you know right but that's what they said they said you got an extra two years I know they also I you know what I've also called the town with this whole I got in this position let's just stay on topic here I am on topic I'm just saying I've been bad advised before by Boards and I don't want to have it happen again and knows nobody knows how am I supposed to feel any better if nobody knows Ryan talk to the uh I talk to Town Council we get the you get the you're not well I mean we pay a lot of money for Town Council this town and I just spoke with him and the advice I the opinion I got from him is that so my answer is your call I you're not expired yeah you're not expired you're not expired okay it's on the record not expired still yes you got an automatic 2-year extension from January I mean January 19th and on the on the meeting on the meeting I noted we're on we're on YouTube that it's that this went on I'm not dealing with this not completed by say late November December come in of 27 end of 26 what would be my date then November come see us in November of 26 no it had to be 30 days prior oh that is yeah within January 19th 2027 November 1 that's why said 2026 of 2026 done so so I guess then you would ask the commission respectfully to withdraw your um extension of or your order of conditions because your order of conditions are no extension request extension request yeah right Mr chairman yes before that happens if you're going to do that I would suggest having whoever made the motion withdraw the motion thank you um I'm going to withdraw the motion of a 2-year extension I'll second that okay and all those in favor I okay um yeah I don't I'm still I don't know what I should even be motioning right now I mean not all right so I think we're done no cuz I either no cuz then I either have to send in them all right so I have to send in do I have to send in a letter withdrawing my you could write a note and send it in saying actually did it even count because it got continued so the letter it's still would yeah okay overthinking Eric overthinking yeah Eric Eric overthinking Eric do I send in a letter subit submit a letter to Joanne requesting to withdraw your or extension request for an extension of your order of conditions the state already did it for you yes the state and then we'll talk thank you letter to Mor um I'm not thaning anybody I don't even want to be here I understand ER so I'll entertain a motion send in the letter request with I'll entertain a motion to withdraw the request for an extension of order of conditions by hathway Road contingent on the receipt of a letter requesting such from Eric you want my letter now so move is all those in favor I okay you're all thank you Mr are all right hey boy new business public hearing RDA James soua 183 mad pois of road map 10 Lot 12 a request for determination was filed by James soua for property located at 183 matap poison road map 10 Lot 12 the applicant proposes to replace the existing septic tank with uh 1500g concrete septic tank and install a new chamber type leeching area within the 100 zone of bordering vegetated Wetland the applicant is represented by David dean of Schneider Dean Leone Incorporated plan name is sew Disposal system repair plan for property located at 183 map pois road we dated December 13 20124 review matters presented votes may be taken I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing motion to open second all those in favor I I I going to recuse myself all right Mr Su is recusing himself U Ryan I'd like to recuse myself please okay Mr dearis is recusing himself Mr soua James suer of 183 mapo Road um I had um the engineers Dave the vinion draw up a new plan for a new septic system uh the the land was all delineated um he put it right up on my lawn close to the chicken coup um it's real close to where the old one is this is a repair and I'm just looking for you guys to say okay y um what's the closest point for the Wetland just for reference that corner right yeah Saturday no um the closest corner looks to be about 60 ft well I'll make this short and sweet this is common practice in this town um we've I guess any upgrade is better than what's existing in most cases so um 60 ft that's you know we've dealt with 25 ft right another occasions uh it's pretty straightforward um uh is there anybody oh sorry I apologize we did make the site visit out there on Saturday um everything was in line to what uh was proposed um through my ey and I I think to the commission's eyes um I don't see any problems moving forward with this project is there is there anybody from the public to speak on this project no I just wanted to check um okay so uh I'll make a I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing motion to close all those in favor I I um I'll entertain a motion to uh issue a negative determination for 183 m pois road for the septic installation make that motion is there a second second all those in favor I awesome thank you okay next public hearing notice of attent Matthew Bello 231 m pois road map 10 lot 14.14 a SE file number 01 0599 a notice of intent was filed by for property located at 231 m pois Road mat 10 lot 14.14 a the applicant proposes to construct a sing Single family house with a septic system roof area infiltration system well Associated well Associated grading in small portion of the paved driveway within the 100 foot buffer zone of a bordering vegetated Wetland the applicant is represented by alons Co Koka of kbm Design Group LLC and name is proposed single family dwelling site plan dated December 16 2024 review matters presented votes may be taken uh I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing motion second all those in favor all all right good afternoon my name is Al Koka with the kbm Design Group I'm here representing M Mr Matthew botell uh for the proposed construction of a single family house at 231 maposa Road uh Lot number two that was recently subdivided um so since the uh submission for the noi we've also submitted with the Border health for the uh septic design which includes a 1500 G tank and um chamber style leing field uh the septic has been approved it's uh 75 ft away from the uh uh from the wetlands uh the proposed house uh will be uh the closest point to Wetland flag number eight which uh cheats out a little bit as you can see it's 40 ft away uh we've raised the grades due to high groundwater elevations uh we have to keep the uh septic about 4 ft in the uh uh High ground water and also have the uh foundations uh of the proposed house not in the water table so we don't have any water is in the future um erosion controls have been proposed in the U entire limit of work and uh um pretty much uh that's the extent of the uh of the uh of the limit of the work and uh the location like the the closest point to the wetlands we had to get that close due to uh side yard setback that we have to maintain okay um I apologize I wasn't able to make the site visit on Saturday um I I know the site I've driven by it million times um I have some concerns here um you just said your raising the grade um your butter is close by you're concerned about the runoff from the impervious area that you're creating here with this with this house I understand there roof infiltration systems or whatever but bringing the grade up is going to cause storm water that isn't C captured by your roof system to run towards your neighbor's house so that's one issue um second issue is I mean I just read the agenda it says within the buffer zone 100 ft small portion of oh of the the pave driveways within the buff Zone it looks like most of this house is in the buff Zone correct most of the house B that the the the driveway and the driveway one cheat towards the B will go towards the street it's been gred to go that way right um so no FV has being routed to any abing to the ab but or the wetlands all right um and and then if this was to be approved um some sort of demarcation should be required is do you guys have like a fence I I just putting putting in entire house within 40 ft of of the buffer zone of the Wetland line you know mowing the grass doing stuff in the yard before you know it there's encroachment and you're encroaching within you know 40 ft into it I've seen that um so some sort of split rail fence split rail fence something of of that nature um that that just based on on the drawings and looking at the site that's kind of what I came up with with this it just seems like a lot to squeeze into you know you're squeezing 10 lbs of stuff into a 5B bag on this project in it his and yeah that's just my observation I read the notice of everything you know all the notes everything seems good in theory but you know I try to think with common sense some times and it just don't something just about this don't sit right with me yeah definitely is postage stamp um can I speak J yeah all right so when I was out I was also uh very skeptical about the whole project um how it all became even in the project in one um I noticed not only is there a wetland but on that plan it's not showing the pawn that's sitting out there um which makes a a huge difference uh for setbacks um let me read little something the distance you should build a house away from the setbacks is at least 50 to 100 ft within the areas um suggested and then as a pond it can be up to depending on drainage and pond size and other um other fact is it could be up to 300 ft away from a pond now there's no possible way it be 300 I don't even see it getting uh 100 ft away we in it right can yeah sure so this is a a near map imagery from April this year uh this is the property that hasn't been uh on the assessors yet but the pond is near this driveway the for this property right here so we are and the house will be the corner of the house is right here on this street yeah so it's pretty far away and yeah I I understand I understand that but it's not even shown on the plan and that was clearly sitting right there um I I you already stated uh the high water levels in that area the re the not also I also um agree with Ryan with the runoff as much as you say the great like the driveway is going to go towards the road it's physically impossible unless we're seeing a retention wall here which is not shown to to not grade for not for any grading to not be done going towards the neighboring house you can't just well the driveway is about but you can't on the side of the driveway the side of the driveway is going to be created in so when you come from this and you go there it still water still goes to least resistance so with saying that Ryan I mean Eric if you don't mind me saying they put a house right next door to me and I get flooded out now so I mean I don't know they were at elevation 109 my driveway is at 98 where do you think all the water goes now I'm dealing with this and U it's something that no one should have to deal with truthfully especially raising a grade that that significantly because of the the water table that exists in that area you are going to flood that neighbor out there is going to be problems you're going to flood that roadway out raising that grade of that property that high I wish this Bo would have said that about mine and on on and on top of that it also one of the stipulations it does say about the pond is has a huge uh a huge side effect is if it has to do with uh drainage um a lot of B place at Road uh there used to be swes all the way across and I feel like it's puddling a lot in that area even if you don't want to call it a pond then it's being used for the storm water uh system which also um falls under another concern where it says it could be up to the 3 foot 300 foot um away uh I'm not one to tell people what they can and can't do with their projects um but there is uh large amount of uh different things we got to consider as a board on such a project being so close I I guess my concern is I mean they they can be spoken to obviously but my my concern is it's a single family dwelling it's exempt from the storm water bylaw or Massachusetts storm water standards but this it's a recipe for disaster I think especially with the proposed grade that that is being uh proposed yeah but it don't matter they did it to me my neighbors did it to me they're at 109 I'm at 98 so what's the difference so why why what is what's the reason one second wait one second Kathy if you don't mind what's the reason so much that you had to move the what are you trying to do underground sep no it's a septic system the oh so you're trying to match grade of the septic water table the found to be a system so he's he's done both so it's going to be a mount mount so yeah well I mean you can see the the side elevations there one two three four what's the side elevation of the septic yeah roughly roughly uh the break elevation uh would be 55 50 that's the top of the grade so it should be about 54 is4 at the at the break out top of the aseptic and what's the neighbors the ne Foundation the gr NE is gr no it's about 51 right right here You' be around 51 right yeah so you're going to be up 3 foot higher 4T 4ot that's that that's at the septic area and that's the highest point though right not necessarily if you look at the side elevation driveway is 55 yeah yeah and then at the bottom of the slope is 51 I I just think honestly can I just be honest right here I just think this Project's going to land on a little bit more than there's just too many large actors involved here that I think that us as a board can make the call on our own yeah let's let's open it up to the public and then we'll come to some J you have someone right there please go to the podium say your name hi how are you my name is Kathy lold and my husband's Chris here we live at 205 mad poiset road we own the pond um I have pictures of the pond um at certain times the pond is much smaller Springtime the pond extends it's bigger it drains um I have pictures of the pond I have pictures of you know the wildlife in the pond the frogs the um it's I'm not sure if it's an actual Vernal pool or not but um you know the pond with the eggs all that sort of thing um and our concern is that um sticking a house in a very small spot obviously septics have to go High House foundations have to go high that you know it's going to interrupt with the wildlife in the area um so if you'd like you know I know you have photographs but if you'd like to see some actual pictures of the pond and the wildlife have them for you and so you the you the house that's set way in the back in the back yes sir so I looked I I was trying to do some research on this once I looked at the plans I looked at the the Wetland change maps and you got tin so behind you is tinum Pond yes and then there's a hydrologic connection that runs so that would be the west of your house down to essentially your roadway and it shows a hydrologic connection on one side and then the other so I assume that water connects to wood can you just I'm a Layman can you know what a hydrologic connection is so so the is that a pipe the the water the the water is connected to it from it's essentially coming through the ground to yes so what happens is the when the pond overflows um there's almost like a small stream it goes under our driveway and it goes towards that other side um and then it goes in the back so you know our yard is a certain we have like 19 Acres I think but our yard is a certain amount and after that it drops off and it's all like mushy and wet we don't go back there it's it's under chapter 64 it's um you know it's not used lands we we basically have you know our family deer and you know coyotes and boxes that run through and um the turtles that lay the eggs in the summer in the springtime and um and of course do you have a pipe under your driveway yes it goes to the pond so it doesn't go to the pond it goes for the runoff so when the pawn gets high when the Pawn's low there's really no runoff when the pawn gets high it's like a trickle that goes under my driveway and just naturally goes to the other side and you can see it goes like past that you know what I mean so yeah it probably goes to Tink and pond I mean I I don't go back there I've never been back there besides when I was a kid I live there I've lived there my parents own that land it was a um a pig farm on one side and a cow Farm on the other and we used to Jimmy through that land all the time but um obviously as an adult I don't I don't go back there but um but it so our house it trapes off and then it it goes somehow to ttin P but I don't have knowledge of that as an adult but um but I do have pictures of the pawn I think this picture was taken in April when um the the pond was higher um but like I said it's an ebb and flow of how of how full or expanded the pond is and how it trickles so my concern and this is my brother Larry my sister on Lucy they live across the street um and we all you know we all know that that area is just you know getting very wet so putting another structure there is very concerning with um with you know the runoff and and just even the tra like you said how it's going to affect your septic system yeah my septic system is on the other side so I don't think it's going to affect my septic system but it's certainly going to affect um the wildlife and so I do have actual pictures of the pond if you'd like to see them it's up to you you have a picture there I don't know if that portrays yeah no sh that right so can't really no I've seen that so many times in my life I know like also that has like the Frog EGS and then that's my ja so sorry hold on I'll get there are you going the right way are you swiping the right way children so we went at night we went at night you know take the pictures of the frogs and you know obviously there's a lot of there's a lot of wildlife in that pond you know so just um just a little someone who's Liv there for anybody else oh I'm sorry you off is there anybody else from the public like to speak on this freers 220 M poison Road I'm right directly across the street from where this will be going in um now sh's going to configure in for being a certain distance from everybody's Wells um the well at 235 m road which that house of buts uh the well is in the driveway which you probably guys know um just don't know how all this is going to configure into being far enough away from everybody's Wells everybody else's septic systems I don't know it's going to affect the new people that bought the house at uh 231 how that's going to affect their SE system um it's uh oh as far as the weal the B of Health approved the SE system so that means the well is far enough away you know that that that's been cleared through the Board of Health okay all right all right yeah um all right so I I guess I don't know if this is too much of an ass but I I would like to have somebody else another engineer look at it some some sort of peer viiew and if they if they could ease my concerns then I wouldn't I wouldn't have a problem with it and I I think that goes for the the Commissioners I don't want to speak to the commissioner but um but also like I said if this was if this project was to to move forward I would like to have some whether it be a stone wall some sort of demarcation line because before you know it your backyard likes to expand on yeah and U we agree the demarcation line we can put it there we can add the note regarding the fil so idea was to like get the storm the roof run off and recharge it doe to Redux on 48 we need to have a minimum of 2 F of separation for storm water that's why we have to raise the sight as it is if we lower the site anymore we can lose half of the FI in the back but then we can't do any recharge any storm water control and then all the roofs like the roof gutters will run uncontrolled that's why the design is like this we try to think of the uh the impacts from the run off from the roof I understand at the the next to a 2 want loot uh the existing house uh we can redesign that one and put a small knee wall just to and then rerub the water so hopeful so get it away from I'd be more comfortable with that we can do that that's that's something that I considered right off the bat is is the here for 231 no no but um regarding the concerns to any Wetland to any U other septic systems or Wells uh we are way far and then the the proposed septic system is more 75 ft away from the Wetland so it doesn't have any impact to the Wetland or to the pond which is even further away and then the roof runoff again it's not going to affect the pond it's being red the back of the property I'll be recharge and it's oversized I can provide calculations if you I'm just concerned because every time I've seen the gentleman there it's when the pond is at the lowest it's been the winter time it you I mean I don't think I've seen anyone there like really looking at the pond when it's springtime when the pond is the biggest you know Captain with the pond as long as they're so far away from it that's what all details I think um the chairman making a suggestion that it goes peer review so in other words someone that represent the town we'll look at everything make sure everything's a go if he says all wall should go up or something else should go up he would let us know okay um I think it's the right thing for Ryan to suggest that and actually I'll put it in a that um this project go into PIR review and be second looked at under the expense of you guys and I'll second that motion at this time can they it in April when the water's High it doesn't matter I hate to say it doesn't matter yeah I mean that we just make sure the projects that are going in near wetlands are done properly and and that's that's really an element some of the elements that I picked up there you know seems like when Larry and myself were building our houses then the laws strict or something because well Larry how far are you from your pond uh well I went through hell to put the house in I know you did what I'm saying is your house is real close commission right so I had I had to put on like 700 ft of fence cost me a fortune and I did it myself but that's when I was young yeah I I remember those days I could I couldn't even get closer what I'm saying is though it's like it's another guy that is close to the pond and if he's doing it correct the guy owns the property so if we send it to peer review another engineer is looking at it if they all come back and say it's a go fine if they say something has to be changed then we'll let engineer to engineer discuss it and figure out what's the best way to move forward before it goes to PE riew do you want me to incorporate the change we talked about the fence and the retainer wall side or do you want to send this your that's your call I mean you could you could do it you could submit these for peer review and and then go over your changes that you proposed with that makes sense to okay yeah on that motion it was I I don't know if it requires a motion but we can there there's a motion in a second but yeah but the motion wasn't it didn't say what we were going to do when it came back well no no we we right yes so yeah you can so I'm going to change my motion that this goes to peer review and then after receiving it from peer review you come to another meeting and we'll review all together what the engineer is suggesting and see if you're willing to go with what he suggested and again I'll second the motion all right so we'll yeah so we're we're going to continue this public hearing we can do we have you have to continue it to a date and time yeah so so what two meetings away motion so that will be March right well Tech don't count the January it be feary not the 15th not the 29th April 9th we got March 12 I'm only doing one yeah right so that would be the March meeting I would think that between now and March they yeah there should be some okay yeah yeah I mean we can yeah then if if if there's nothing report then we can yeah but by by March I mean it should be plenty of time for us to I would I would say so yeah so the only thing I am going to say to the people that live in came here as a buts you will not get another notice for the March 12th meeting okay so if you want to come and listen to see what's going on just be here on March 12th okay cuz that will not be a card okay yeah you can go on the town website and sign up for notifications to email for for meetings you can pick conservation planning Selectmen whatever now on now if we send it to peer riew is it I have concerns about the flagging as well will that be something that will be looked into or are they just going to look at the plan cuz like I said the pond is not even noted the background the the the bar about the pond is will change the whole drastic the whole property the whole thing the pond ain't on this property that's why it's not shown on this drawing right y so they don't own theond Kathy does so at 100 ft at the end of the buff the pond was like right here that's it's still on someone else's propess it but no it might have not been on his property like she said if people go out there when it's not wet it might have not shown it that can I show you picture I have a picture don't know this is road that runs parallel I don't know if that's helpful to you this is my driveway and I don't know how to read that I just we just took out our plans today so so your driveway crosses right at that probably at that thinnest point right yes my my driveway is right at the corner that's I don't know how this matches you you going have your no that's that's because the lot was split different you know you have the imagery showing what the pond is is pretty far away from the edge of the property line how far ballpark I know what 100t looks like I'm just saying we are this is the closest point which is what flag number eight which points out the pond is so it's 40 it's over 100 ft from no I'm saying how far is the pond from the property line not the furthest flag oh from a Prof line no I would say why are we all coming to assumptions if if you're sure it's off the property and there'll be no problem having someone look at it real quick there not exp we suggested PW corre yeah but I didn't is peer review going to cover [Music] Bess Mr chairman yes peerreview works for the town what you dictate to peer review they to look into thank you yeah no I agree I I think they should look at the whole thing visiting all yeah there's there's 12 Flags to check I mean yeah it's not like it's not huge like a said I'm just like and like we all said the every the constant thing I kept hearing throughout everybody's conversation is drainage it doesn't matter if it goes if you have the driveway come off the driveway and it all goes into the road and then goes back into the pond it's still going in the same spot all right so there's a there's a motion to continue this public hearing to the think M Mr chairman sorry one more time Bob Hanley course talk there's a motion in a second to send it to peer review yes I suggest voting on that before you continue okay yeah there is I thought he he said continued as well but okay so there's a motion in a second to send this to peer review all those in favor I I that's okay so I will a motion to continue this public hearing to the March you said 13th March 12th 2025 meeting motion to continue this meeting second all those in favor all right so we'll continue that you can um get get in touch with Mark um we can give you a list of peer reviewers to to decide on it's up to you guys we have no preference you have no preference we can't we can't make I I know I know a guy but I don't know if he's up for it but um we're going to thank you you pick one we'll use them yeah sounds good thank you you can't just send one no so everybody's aware we'll send three okay discussion 550 Main Street navis un you 550 Main Street nav un Sol site grage issues review matters presented vot me go first all right uh you guys decide who goes first I'll go first okay um we had a sidewalk a couple of weeks ago looking at all of this it was at that sidewalk but I represented that I thought what was in the ground was there we're going to start um we've been looking internally what we've uncovered is there was some inconsistencies in plans that were approved versus Cals that were approved versus the asil so what we are now in the process of doing is reestablishing what's in the ground right now we're resetting all of the as built we're resetting all the inverts we're resetting all of the elevations that plan and we were out there today remeasuring everything we're going to take that plan we're going to go back to the hydrocad calculations that GF has re had reviewed previously adjust as needed so what's in the field is what's in the plans and what's in the hydrat we're going to on our side we're getting that done by Friday FR we will then submit back to Bill what we've uncovered early next week and so I wanted to come here tonight and kind of make this all go away I'm going to actually request that within two weeks we're going to come back with a plan that JF and we have determined what is there what needs to be tweaked and how we do that that's short term the other short term is we have a storm coming in potentially this weekend we're going to be out there we're going to be on site Saturday night Sunday night looking at what's happening we're going to we're going to talk to bill over the next couple of days we might plug some of the outlet the lowf flow Outlets just to make sure that everything's good we're going to be on site make sure nothing happens that's for this little bit longer term we are then based on everything that we come out of what we're determining on elevations and inverts we're going to come up with an interim plan between now in spring because we can't un we we don't want to break anything up right now we don't want to start construction in the middle of winter so we need and we need need grass get to get grass growing in April so we're going to come back here in two weeks with a plan from now to April that we've agreed with uh GF we're going to represent that to the entire town this is go we had a meeting today with uh several boards this is going to go to the planning board it's going to go here we're going to keep the town administrator's office in in and board of selectman all lined up everybody's on the same page where we are what we're doing and we're going to uh come up with a course of action here for the next two weeks and I'll be back to this board saying how we're going to how we're going to get this s fixed up if you don't mind chairman um one thing I know that noticed is that like Bill mentioned the loom coverage Loom coverage ain't there so we talked about this today we meeting today we had we talked about it in the meeting we're going to talk about all this and we're going to come up with what needs to be done we're going to rerun and we have to adjust some I think vegetation is more important than Loom coverage if you have and we've talked about this today but if we can adjust our calculations to prove what we're doing tweak some of the out outlets we will but we need to get the grass growing out there we had grass that was about knee high I cut it in October I shouldn't have cut it and it went too low so you know there are some things there that's what we're going to work with GF over the next couple of weeks to make sure and everybody's going to be in agreement on on a path forward I hope cutting the grass doesn't change everything cutting the grass to this and then the whole site freezing changes it a little bit Yeah ultimately you know I I the meeting today it was it was a productive meeting I think um you know the loan could be a factor but the they're going to tweak other factors that ultimately what we're looking for is the end result if if there needs to be some modifications here there to compensate for that or that and that's that we just want the end result to be correct you know and that's what bills work on yeah and I think on the loan coverage the only thing that's going to really affect would be the how how quick and how nice the vegetation takes it was vegetated and stuff it wasn't it's still vegetated yeah still it's just you know it's right the whole point of the loan is to create growth not well that it slow right yeah but guys in reality the site is what it is is what it is you know what I'm saying right and this is why we have GF involved it's it's now how do we fix this issue going forward I I don't think adding 4 Ines of soil between the panels or even through that whole site is is a fix I think we should leave this to The Experts based upon the information that GF is going to provide and and we run with this and we hope we never ever get a call from any of the Neighbors after this site hopefully is fixed based upon the information that we're given they agree upon and we agree upon to fix this issue going forward and its Lessons Learned on this particular site and sites going forward bill you got I do actually come on up B well here's a here's a copy of I prepared a letter um after our site inspection what have you I'll just keep one copy for myself or cou I can read from but there's several I don't think I made enough for everybody but um so we were talking about the top soil and the L I'll just I'll try to simplify an explanation on how it does affect the runoff when you have your vegetation your vegetative layer then you have a an organic layer and then you have subsoil under that then you have the parent material that's there removal of the the organic matter and removal of the subsoil lay you know diminishes the thickness of that growing medium but it also diminishes the thickness of the area they call the area of interflow inlow is a portion of the storm water runoff that runs right below the top soil on the on the H pin or the more impervious soil so we have the C type soils there whatever we have on top of that will infiltrate through that top soil right and ride on that impervious layer so in the absence of that top soil the void space in the top soil the volume that consumes some of the runoff has no place to go so it all ends up as runoff it does perform a pretty good function it can it can in some instances be as much as 30% of the runoff that comes off a site is can be termed as interflow interflow so that was that's the reason that I think it's important to evaluate here because it does result in an increase in runoff and if we look at the way the site has reacted to rainfall events so far it looks like there's more runoff going to the Basin and there's more runoff leaving the Basin so that was that's the issue with the with the with the top soil and that's why I think it's important and if we're not able to Institute that element into construction then we have to compensate for it in another way that other way may be making the drainage basin larger it may be putting another diversion uh burm in onto the site create another intermediate area for poting up gradient of the of the Dow gradient most drainage basins but there's several things that can be done to work work out the issue but the biggest issue I think I think what I observed when I went out there I went after I got Ryan stuff on the 14th I think 15th of December we had a storm event on New Year's Eve I got up early on New Year's Day and I went for a walk out to the site and I saw what was going on at least what I thought was going on out there and those lowf flow Outlets that are in those Outlet control structures I mean they were letting a lot of water out I think they're they're a little on the large side for me you know when we put lowf flow outlets in I usually use a small device that the water just trickles out this water when we had 3 ft ahead on a 6in orifice I mean that's putting out a huge volume of water and it leads to maybe a misconception that more Waters leav in the site it's just maybe leaving more water leaving the site at that particular point in time only because the outlet control structure in that low low outlet might be just a little bit too big so those are a couple of things that I outlined in the letter I went through the the inspections that we did down there I you know we also asked for asil's going back um like in June in July of 24 you know we we received some in July we didn't do much with them when we received them you know we received another set in August um you remember August July and right there was there was no concern for runoff at all there was no rain we had very very dry summer right um so you know we didn't really look at those as builts I looked at them a little more closely before the January 4th meeting I went out there in the field with the plans on January 1st and uh just recognized a few things that didn't seem consistent with the plans and I outlined a couple of things in the letter that um essentially Steve has he presented what we were writing essentially you know he he was on the same page as us and we had no discussion on it at all so um I find that as a as a good uh a good outcome I think the runoff curve numbers need to be adjusted a little bit to suit the actual condition that went out there that that took place out there and then I also think that you know when we go back and look about when we first got involved we first got involved because there was an erosion and a siment a issue and we needed to resolve that issue that's what we we resolved and now we're focusing on the quantity the the rate and the volume of the water that's being delivered to the Basin and being discharged off site so we're dotting eyes and Crossing tees to get that number down there to to finalize what the actual rates are what the volumes are and um to see where it where it leaves us with what has been constructed you know if portions of what has been constructed will continue to work you know I think we would recommend that there they remain things such as that are those over soap flow spillways those 12 and 15t wide Stone Line Stone line spillways through the dikes with the concrete curb on them those those might be those might be fine they might be wide enough the free board might be adequate enough to uh to accommodate the the flows that exceed the design requirements on the pl on the uh with the regulations because I think that Bas designed for 25y year event but you know you still have to manage the 100-year snow we have to identify how we're going to manage that and you know basically everything is following its following the course that it that it has taken over years I think that the issue is how much is how much what's the rate occurring at certain times if you're able to trim that rate down I think you make a make a minimization of the potential offsite flooding but you know you're just discharging that water out of the Basin for a longer period of time which I think it's fine you look at those hydrographs they come up and they peak real high with the storage is high and then they taper right off and they just run out for you know 12 16 20 hours of time and that's that's the that's the piece on that curve that's that lowf flow Outlet so you want to make sure that that volume is is adequate but the rate I think it's more important to to establish a rate that doesn't look like a torrent of a river ripping ripping through the woods and that's one of the major things I think that we need to work on so Bill on Saturday when we were at the walkth through you said that this is a 71 but it could be a 98 what were those numbers you were saying okay well those are those are the runoff curve numbers in the TR 55 um computer program there's tabiz um runoff curve numbers that's what we use when we determine runoff using tr55 they have a different number for hydrologic soil group a b c and d a being the best D being the worst we're at C we're second worst um so and the and we have some D's exactly but the um the issue with the the 71 and the 98 was really stemming from the water surface of the drainage basin itself the water surface of the drainage basin itself should be modeled at a 98 because that water can't go any place but in the Basin and granted it only happens when the Basin has water in it but it's An Occurrence that will occur will will result and we do have to mitigate for it so you're better off mitigating that volume by including it early in TR 55 does state that you use 98s for surface waters ponds and drainage basins so did they use a 71 or did they use a 98 they did not use a 98 they might have used a 77 or 75 based upon you know pasture in good conditions is what they were what was being used for the finished construction so the pasture in W the pasture in in good condition Hest C type soil is a curve number um 71 so what I'm saying is that since it's not really a pasture you know in its current state and it's not bare soil it's someplace in between so I'm saying it's got to be somewhere in between a 71 and say an 88 or an 87 something along those lines likely to be in the mid 80 range when things get analyzed but maybe not maybe there'll be maybe it'll be a small number so what you need to do is you need to design your storage of your drainage basin based on the differences I'm over simplifying this based on the differ I'm actually with you though okay based on the differences of those curved numbers so when the curved number goes up you get more water when it goes down you get less and what we're trying to do is figure out how to balance everything so that we can equal the condition that existed prior to the start of construction and that was Woods in good condition which I think had a runoff curve number of a I I think it was 70 I thought it was 71 but it might have been 74 so that's what we're comparing we're comp we're comparing the wooded site on sea soils empty so it it roughly comes out to about 75 yeah and then and then the the constructed site has to match that number and you match that number by modifying the surface of the ground and by providing drainage or by solely modifying the surface of the ground and putting no drainage basins in or by putting a drainage Bas in and not modifying the surface of the ground so them Woods right those woods had Al Loom conception then they have a rooted leave all that compost so how thick was that that was slowing everything down that was stripped out and now it's running like like there there in lies the problem therein lies what we need to mitigate we need to we need to we need to do something that compensate for the leaf litter the duff in the woods the top soil that's there whether it's substantial or not but that's what we have to do is strike that balance I mean we we know what to do but Steve was on point with all this today when we were talking for the first time on it so that's what we have to do is just select from the menu of things that we can put on that site what will work the best so can we change it to a 98 that you guys have to go by in other words make the basins bigger and why you shaking your head no because it's not a 98 no because it isn't a 98 and we have to we we at a minimum have to follow the guidance that the document gives us okay so n Mr Susan 98 is a parking lot and so that's Pure Asphalt nothing no vegetation so there's I agree with Bill is it 71 right now no is it 98 no I think we're somewhere in the middle and that's what we're trying to figure out and that's what we're going to work towards and what you originally designed it at 71 which is a meadow which is which was never a metal though no theal yeah that's the equal as a as a force and and you know just like you guys are hands- on Common Sense people you know that that in the real world they're they're like right and left they're not they're not the same they're not but that's the guidance document that's the that's the document that everybody uses you know there is some fine print in different places that'll tell you what else you might want to do you know I've looked at all that stuff the fine print and just trying to figure out the best way to do it because I think the most important is thing is to get that get that runoff curve number for the developed condition the post condition where it needs to be and I think just so everybody so we talked about this today I think again do you want me to get up sorry um no you can that okay I can y I can yell from yeah um what I want to do is and this is what we talked about today ultimately there's an a finished condition which is grass crumbs back in the spring this is what it is and that's what I want to work with Bill on that we all agree with that whether that's a 71 whether that's a 77 curve number there's a finished condition that when we all walk away once the grass comes up that's the final condition then there's an interim between now and April that might be an 85 and we might look at it at different so that we can control up until we get to a point where we all in the longterm agree that if we get everything moving in the right direction everything's there the grass comes back that's the ultimate and then there's the short term that we can design to and that's what we're talking about doing okay so this weekend we got a storm coming what's your plan just to go there and watch it just said it no we're going to block we're going to block off the we think we're going to block off the L Outlet I just the weather has changed since we started it was like 2 in of rain this morning it's now a qu of an inch on Saturday night and 2 Ines of snow on Sunday better actually it's better for us right so but we will we're watching this I they we watch this all the time yeah I'm still concerned on um making sure like I don't want to say that anybody's right in this situation I I'm still concerned there's more water coming onto the than is anticipated in the that's what that's one of the things we're looking at did you read the letter no I hav had a chance I'm dyslexic oh you think I'm going to sit here and read this dude you need like four hours so me on the backage no I'm going to photo copy it I'm going to put it on my computer and have my thing read to me that's how I that's one of the things so again we're going back we want to we want to get to an agreement that what's actually in the ground right now so how you going to figure out if something's coming offsite real quick we have toppo from USGS us you're not going to we're not we're not doing offsite Aerials we have we have well that's the problem we we looked I looked at um Mass JS data the have one foot in the the liar data and I compared I looked at the liar and I compared it to massgis um they're two different sources and they're they they show the same thing they show very much the same thing so what we need to do is just look at the site with the liar topography on it and that'll give us our boundaries of everything that's so that would tell you if the roads getting drained in there the road which true like if any of the roads are getting in this case it would be Mental Road it would be the up upgradient road but yeah it would it would show you the we've looked at it looks like it's about 6 Acres off site but we haven't shown that to bill yet we've been as soon as this has started happening we like I said we've gone back and started recreating what happened back in in March April May we've already got some of this stuff analyzed we're looking at this from on the site though I'm just curious because you know this we got someone saying that there's so much water but it was clearly evidence there that there was already a problem in the first place hey and B like maybe I don't know I just feel strongly that who I don't I need I need to prove that what I've done is what's right and that's where this starts is making sure that plans and CS all coincide and then we can look at are there other extenuating fact right and Eric the more water when you think there's more water if if there is more water coming off the site it is because the runoff the runoff curves that were selected weren't reflective of the real world condition no I I I understand it was constructed to what you guys thought was going on in that certain area what I'm saying is if there was more area than that just that that doesn't meet the eye which happens a lot in this town maybe our numbers are so far off as it's not just the construction that we're not taking into consideration a a whole Road getting dumped in but let me say this too if that if we find that there's existing area that is coming onto the property that has to get included in the existing conditions too so we're going to reset the existing if there is more s shown we have to start there so then the existing conditions will be adjusted to show offsite conditions coming on and then we're going to have to do that for the Post conditions as well now one of the things that we're dealing with the meaning the town's got to deal with is the design point the design point is the Wetland or the property line okay so where we are on the where the drainage basin is right now coincides with the predevelopment discharge point from a catchment are area of that 29 Acre Site so we're putting the water where the topography told us it goes and it's it's directly in line with a stone line channel that so my biggest concern is is storm water going in there but well it's supposed to no I'm saying like off from offside oh well what I think why I think you're seeing more water is because that interim condition that's Steve mentioned you know all the Cal when you do our calculations we do a pre-development set of calculations and a post-development set of calculations that's what a commission typically approves all right what happens in between when we're actually building the project there's no requirement any place other than erosion and sediment control that tells you what to do there we it's clear that in a site like this the volume is more during construction the runoff volume is going to be more during construction than during preon than the precondition or the post condition because we have Disturbed l no no I totally understand that I'm just but I also when it just it looks it just to me it look I strongly feel there something else that's going on other than what the project is at hand you know that's all say something getting drained in it it could be Underground who knows nobody knows nothing well it depends on where you're looking at the problem area like if we look at the property line for the solar project that's pretty defined as to what drains to that point what area goes to that point but if we look at the offsite areas where the problems occur there's other areas that contribute runoff to that location absolutely that that field up there on on har Hill road that goes right down to it the wooded lot that we walk through that the stream not the stream but the discharge water ran through that goes over to the pond there's like three other areas there's three total areas that discharge water to the point where everybody's concern yeah so exactly my point there's a lot more area than but he can't control the offsite correct I know but we'll never fix the problem if we don't get it from the what we can do though is what we have to do is is match the pre-developed condition from our site from this site that's what the obligation of the commission is is to see that we match the pre-development runoff rates to the post-development runoff rates for the project that we're working on yeah I understand so pre conru that's all we can do that's all you can control all right so what I'm getting at then is then we can just continue to get ready for more phone calls that's it cuz if it if it's only for that site or even just the outstanding if there's more water coming in from somewhere else it's going to bring nobody knows it it's not like someone's sitting there with a meter that then there'll have to be an investigation into where that other some so before that's what I'm getting at we're here right we need to we talking about I know didn't we already have this wasn't this already in Pre review it was did this all all these steps be done before this never went this never went to P I don't know if this went to no I'm saying th this Pro we this project never came before conservation because there's no Wetlands okay okay so this project was introduced to us when we took over Storm from planning okay this was approved through planning through their storm I've never seen a original peer review of the project I I'm just to have it done here since then it's been it what's up to have it okay he would have had to go through the same steps so since since the first incident when we started discharging water okay that's when GF came in we reconfigured the site that was done peer reviewed that was peer reviewed Weston and Samson did that okay and then we had that going and then we started and then we had another incident so we've redesigned the cyle again GF has reviewed that as well and now that's where we are now that's where we're trying to line up as built existing design approval and there were slight tweaks and that's where we're trying to get back so that we can all say where we are I'm just concerned that this is just going to continue to go over and over and over and over and over and over again if these are the same steps we did before it's but this commission's View and correct me if I'm wrong is to approve my project and say yes I'm I've I've done what I'm supposed to do you've reviewed it if it continues this commission can say yes we've proven that what they did is per law and it's been red that's why why we have Bill mad representing the town he's representing this commission to go over the plans to make sure that the post post construction runoff matches the pre-existing conditions if Bill Madden tells me that they do I'm going to take his word for it I've seen bill says they don't then we're going to take his word for it right right now to be and he's working on he's working on it with them okay so then why wasn't this caught the last time besides the point it was done through planning and a totally different stall Water Authority so right at this point the fresh eyes have it that's why this Pew and and then and why bill was brought in the first time or or has been been on this was because of the sedimentation runoff issues so he was he was working on and a woefully under designed original Basin right so that the Basin has been designed but now this runoff slight runoff issues that need to need and I'll tell you the one of the reasons why it's dragged out like this I think is because we had an approval and then it didn't rain all summer and then when we actually start getting rain is when the ground's frozen again now and then it starts bubbling up that's why not this the site has been constructed and open and and everything's been in place since June yeah it didn't rain from June until December right we had a drive hey whatever I just don't feel but we are right back where we started with the first no matter how you look at it we're back to where we started right so with between Bill and you guys you got to any little thing that bill finds has to be fixed and look I bill and I talked about this today I don't really I I don't think we're that far apart I agree with a lot of what he's say I I've been doing this a long time too I don't like 8 in lowlow orifices I don't like six in I tend to go to three or four but those then open up clogging and other stuff which we can we can talk about I think there are tweaks of structural how we do this that can work and then we're just going to work on curve number right so well I think it's going to be some big tweets my own personal opinion that's my opinion right yeah there there may be we we don't know you know we don't have that as built information that as built information my personal opinion I think there's going to be some bigger tweaks but that's my own opinion and you guys are going to find out Bill's going to find out Bill's going tell us Hey listen this is what we found this is what he's going to do if he don't do it now you're not in compliance with what Bill's saying and you know I can't close and then I can't come back and ask for a closure of the order conditions or Co the only thing is so is I mean before that land was ever cleared has that guy ever come called the town saying he's been flooded out so Mr Walsh bought that property in 2020 right and when he bought the property in 2020 the next two years were two of the driest years on record in this town sure and then we started building and then it went reverted back to 50 odd inch of ring so and if you looked the it was evidence that there was already water going there that's why I'm just but if it's the same it's the same I just feel like we're just going to keep coming back to the same exact I I don't I got confidence in that because I think I think once we establish what's on site right now and make the make the adjustments if the runoff curve matches what it's supposed to be then that's that's all you can ask for the plan was designed to do in the first place that's correct but it has to be built properly too so and if somebody you know if somebody is to challenge what was what was done I mean you know the Challenger will have a pretty pretty hefty lift up battle I would I would think so because you know I I I'm fully aware of what goes on when you have a dissatisfied person that abouts a project that you're working on there's no end in sight all no holds are bared nothing they go after everything so I'm I'm viewing this from the perspective is got to make sure that nobody has anything on the commission going forward and that's what my goal is is to make sure that the commission is protected that we get the job done the way it needs to be done um you know and Steve has committed to doing what needs to be done out there so we got willing participants on all sides Ides I'm you know we just don't know what the precise solution is going to be it's likely to be more than one thing yeah when are you getting the asil build well Steve said he was going to try to get them to us this week but probably next week for sure you know we'll be we're we're just clarify we we internally are targeting Friday to look at everything make sure it's all right we'll send out a package I want to send out a package one of the things we figured out I think in May was there was a lot going back and forth trying to get ready so we could get the grass growing we've committed to putting a package in front of Bill here's the existing conditions here's the here's where we are here's a timeline and a narrative of where we're going here's our Solutions and give him a nice package built everything everything in it so that we have a nice clean document control so there's no back and forth because right now I mean no matter how you look at it right we look at the site and we say well is that grade right is that grade right as you know commission members but until Bill gets the as B bill could tell us hey that wasn't right grade or that wasn't and this could change so the as Bill I think going to build is going to help everybody a lot to make sure it was built correctly and to make you know then we'll see if the design was correct right right so pick it apart yeah I I thought it was a good meeting it was informative and you know everybody's willing to work together and that's good I wish I was there I you could have took my spot I hey you going remember I'm re tired you get they getting their money's worth out of me right down to the last day so I'm I'm this isn't a public he so we don't have to like get on the agenda we should be on the agenda in two weeks then right that's um I don't have a meeting until the 12th okay well there's one do you guys have a meeting on the what 29th 29th but it's a zoom meeting and nothing to do I think it's only one want to leave that to the Lake Street stuff yeah 12th of February yes then we'll work we'll be we'll be done with them good okay let's keep it rolling I might watch I might not I'll probably watch you watch back in here I I'll I'll follow this along I you know like I said it's been uh you know we met under multiple circumstances but you've been very receptive to my calls and and I appreciate that it's not like you're dodging us and you know we're trying to come to a common goal here so I I have no complaints appreciate you this all right so uh yeah send it by email with us yeah thanks Bill have a next order visit under discussion Lane Wetland violation review matter um we received an email from ironically the newford conservation agent uh was on a hike down Wen Lane and noticed that there was some construction going on on the walking trail or just off the walking trail um as well as some destruction as well right um some trees there some that's where the pallets were the bridge the pallet Bridge yes so um yep there was a couple trees cut down to use it pretty much stringers across across the Acushnet River and um it's right behind radio so um yeah so we uh I had Mark go out there check it out and um he ultimately issued a cease and assist to whom we you know we don't remains to be seen we don't get back out there we have an idea who the responsible parties are but we yeah because you did post it right so um so yeah ultimately there were some pallets brought out there and essentially they were building a bridge across the offish river issue is you can't drop trees into the river it you know prevents it could cut that down yeah it's a big diameter tree you know it's probably 18 in around yeah no that's some good size stuff so U Mark had issued um a cease and assist and put a couple of them out there so to get somebody's you know attention and I actually went out there afterwards and I had removed the pallets from the river and stack them neatly up against a tree with the cease and assist holding it in place so it didn't blow away um I haven't been out there since but um I'm I'm sure I will make my way out there um I I don't know what to so where is exactly this location Ryan so if you go down the bottom of w the lane yeah walk through walk down through the power lines and you take you come you come down to the power lines and you head towards the acrush River on the left hand side there's a trail head you follow that down there's the old Cotton Mill that was down there yep behind the cotton mill is a is another Trail and off of that trail is where the river crosses behind the coton and that's where the uh I think it's an natur it's deep Brook is joining oh River right in there somewhere yeah just to the west of that yeah is where deep Brook joins the cushion River and then it kind of branches off around the little island there so this made it from one of the little tributaries to the center and not across to the other side which would be um fa oh Keith's faen it's kind of all four properties meet together um that's kind of where it was headed um I reached out to cor and behavi of Chris at Land Trust because actually this isn't on our land is what I determined this is behind the town's land essentially this is on Fen ACC cushion at Land Trust land so I wanted to in form her but we did Issue obviously a c assist because um you can't be doing any construction or destruction or demolition or tree cutting anything in you know in a river area without permiting and this I mean I assume it was kids I hope but there was a truck observed driving down with pallets in the back and that's how the pallets got down there so well you know this is just I guess being monitored I figured we could let cor know because again that is the land trust property she's going to keep her eyes peeled trail cameras try to catch everybody in the eye yes that's kind of all I got for an update on it yeah I and I've been thinking to try to go back out there to see if they actually stop or if it's continuing yeah but uh there were yeah there were pallets when you walked off the rideway the osaurus rideway go onto this trail head there were a whole bunch of other like pallets had already been stacked in there somebody was busy hauling those in there so makes you wonder if and and and before we were notified probably about two weeks prior I was down there hunting and I saw three pallets at the trail head and I mentioned that to Mark I was like oh I saw three pallets there and he's like oh no there's more than three pallets there and there was when we went there there was about 15 at the trail head so there were some trips made you know I talked to the abutters at the at the end of welding Lane they're going to you know everybody there a lot of eyes on it now but you know it's a cool spot it is it is a cool SP really cool spot and and it's good because I what I think is important is all the land around the river to be in conservation restrictions in one form of fashion whether it be the town the land trust Buzz Bay Coalition whatever it may be I I like that ottery of town being undeveloped so um but with Keith being the land trust now the other side being favoring a chush land trust up into our portion that's conservation or historic or whatever I think it's uh it is a nice spot there's a lot of area there for open space um what do you got nothing I just feel uh I don't know this pros and cons to this battle and I don't know if we really want to battle it what's what battle it's just you got pros and cons to the whole situation you know I'm not saying I'm in agreement with anything I just it's a tricky battle to choose you know we're not going to stop it I'll tell you that right now they're not going to stop you know it's either they're going to drive through it and have oil all over their bikes and drive through the river Eric it wasn't there's no way a bike could go on it at this point it the pallet the pallet was this wide it wasn't for a bike what dirt bike can't go down there I used to ride down bikes Trails I don't know man I I I took it a pot it wasn't constructed very well if you going to ride bik on there going back to what we were saying for kids if I could just continue and finish I just want to be I would feel it would be a idea to just not go too heavy on it and make things escalate cuz you know how young kids are when things happen and next thing you know the building's getting I get it I get it honestly in all honesty I would rather the kids go through the through it with their dirt bikes yes so then cutting down trees blocking off the ACC cushion River with with with trees that diameter and diverting it and then everything floating down and getting caught on it and creating a damn yes that's more of an understand get that but if you continue to walk down kids have been riding dir bikes in this town for years and years and years even old this is why I wasn't trying to stop this is why I was no it's not there's no reason for it let's stop there's no reason for an argument we're on camera I say Catch Me If You Can when it comes to dirt bikes good luck guys all right chairman Ryan is Andy's resignation too soon um it's been yeah right yeah you can yeah you guys can vote on that um no it's been a pleasure serving with you guys I'm going to tell you it's really sorry that you're leaving um I think you've been a huge asset this Conservation Commission I apprciate um I wish you were sticking around more cuz I enjoy learning from you um I think it's going to be a hard pair of shoes to fill yeah and um but I guess Heidi can fit him did didn't you Heidi no try on his boots go Ahad now you you guys got you guys got my number um you know advice whatever give me a sh he told me he was changing it tomorrow yeah I a burner phone I'll still be around so now is your emails going to Mark or um I don't know my I I imagine my email would be deactivated so I I sent something to Nick asking often times official business emails they get archived you know just I don't know what yeah I don't have I don't have any I mean Joanne is I've noticed that Joann's done a good job since Mark Mark's been here to let anybody know like hey here's here's the agent contct so I think that I noticed that too so I I really any any emails I get really are just from Joanne Mark or like I got one from bill um but Bill's aware that you know I'm leaving so I mean yeah um yeah I guess my just my advice to the commission would just in future commission is just be be fair and try to be reasonable this is a crappy process nobody wants to deal with I tried to make it respectable and fun and and be reasonable and and and just got it's a process that nobody wants to go through but just try to guide people through it as best as possible not every Situation's good so you know deal with it as they come that's my my best advice all right howy take notes um okay next the commission is seeking applicants to join the Conservation Commission I've been informed by chairman Bobby Bob Pinkley um there's been three uh letter of interest submitted so that will be stay tuned to the selectman's agenda that will be on their agenda um at a future business good deal is that imminent do you know is there a time frame that they're going to you will have two appointed members on the 21st nice thank you there you go full commission wow just like that easily replaced I I'm sorry I cut it so close oh that's good no we need you know people got trips people got the winter off whatever um agent updates so there uh a couple quick things um I was out at uh bgo solar yesterday I just I haven't been able to get any response from the contractor bgo is now New Leaf and they sold it to contractor uh I forgot the name sorry just whoever knows this is the Girl Scouts talking about Ro right off of men Road the Girl Scouts well the the the plan is they're going to clear most most of the property 20 acres yeah it's given some of the the stuff that we've been talking about I'm trying to make sure to the extent we can just stay on top of it I hadn't heard anything back from from the folks so I got to I got to follow up one thing there's no sign up there's no D sign number or anything no so I'm going to follow up and tell them I was on the site I didn't I would I was just worried that they had started yeah is there any evidence of anything going on there no and any time that people want to go I I walked in I walked past the old like it was a mess hall or something the Girl Scouts and then uh I played some shuffle board for a little I'm sorry I went on in I I probably went a couple hundred yards there's no evidence the the litter the leaf litter and branches on the road in nobody's driven in I mean it's there's no equipment and I didn't see any and it doesn't look like there's been any in there but I mean I live close by too and I go by there a lot and same thing I haven't seen no vehicles go in there still there the building's still there yeah and um I've actually walked it through the backside just to go on a hike with my granddaughter and I thought that I was going to see clearing this was before MK even set it up and there ain't nothing going on the property at all um the one thing I have is like I know they show a lot of uh erosion control silk fences does that have to go in prior to cutting down all the trees and stuff yes yes so and flagging I was looking for flagging I didn't look that hard I was more like flagged yeah I walk through it with my granddaughter there's not one flag up there on the wetlands so they do have it on the blue Prints but it is not in the field great so part of your pre-construction meeting um you know like well before they start but there you know obviously the flag should be there that way the equipment operators know not to get next to it per se yeah yeah the road in they're going to widen that and make it into an access road and that goes through some Wetlands right there and you can see on their plans I was curious I didn't see replication I don't know how much they're going to they're going to destroy doing that but I got to double check and make sure that they've got some rep replication they should the prints neither I didn't see no cover or anything tying that back together neither so unless they're going to do away with and a replication but and I and that one you you all know better than I but that one's been out there for a while it has hasn't it yeah same thing and this is this was approved this project ready to go way before we got exension yes and then you gentlemen and ladies denied it and then it came back for reconsideration right what was this how do we obtain this information that it has to be Sil Fen before um you take down the trees it's it's in the uh you can read the orders the the forms orders of conditions I mean it's several places can't the but trying to memorize the the RS and that I'm getting where I don't quite have it memorized but that's why I'm always asking too because it's so confusing you get so many different but but as as Ryan was just saying there the commission you know we we can ask for a preconstruction meeting and given I I haven't heard anything from them and seeing some of these nightmare stories that you know it's almost like a lesson learned it's like let's void to the extent I can I don't want to be remembered yeah at any point in time as the agent that we don't want another nav out that bed it that booted it right we don't want another nav so is there an expiration on this project it's 27 is it 27 is it the I should have yeah I think you extended it to from cuz it was 2020 right de 2020 so that was3 yeah there was into the connection problems there I don't know surprised see there's some and there's some elevation change huge elevation change and it and you know on the back side it's running everything's running right down into Tinkham Brook right there so yeah they definitely and most of the arrays look like they're upfront on the on the property but same time it's got some potential to those new houses what What's the total clear cut over there do we know around 20 acres that's what I recall when it was originally discussed I I think that even came up at town meeting at one point it did it wasn't peer reviewed that's another thing that raised some I don't think it was PE that was approved when planning had some water so I don't I don't I'm not privy to any of that stuff it must be in the file I would imagine but I'll I'll double check with this you'd have to so Ryan let me ask you something if nothing goes on there and this comes up and it expires um I I doubt it will expire yeah yeah um they they'll come before you guys for an extension or any any of these solar projects for that matter we come back for an extension because you have to show that you've been doing work but all the permitting and waiting on interconnection and and all this other stuff shows that they're they're trying to do it but they're prevented from doing it because of that is my interpretation of what goes on cuz a lot the grid simply can't handle all this power no not yet not yet they're up they're in the process of up that's what's going on yeah I mean it's it's just my personal opinion I hate to see 20 20 plus right there I guess is the drive no there was a lot of discussion on that property about that I know it is and I heard there's some pretty old growth on that prop on that the the other thing I've heard there extremely old growth on that on that proper yeah I lost my train thought but yeah so keep an keep your eyes fed on it have them reach out to you no that's yeah anything else Mark um there this came up I think um and I'm looking into it it's um I know some I I know there's a couple folks that have taken down split rail fences apparently that were part of orders of conditions I think it's post the certificate of compliance have been issued I I I I'm pretty sure that you're still Bound by whatever is in your orders of conditions even once you get I I would think but so I'm going to look into that but once I find that out I might reach out to a couple properties and just say hey notice that you know that um you've taken down split rail fence or can you put it back up y it's it's there for a reason it's the I don't visual delineation that's right oh and I know the last thing I wanted to BR but if they had it in Neo condition D they have to keep it yeah did you go by mine what did you go by mine do you have a split rail fence no I have Stones all the way down that side yeah but what I'm saying is do you have it on your order condition it was on no I'm saying old the old one it's it was old delineations that just learning didn't matter at the end of the day anyways but if you put yours up voluntarily that's a smart thing if you if it was an order condition and you put it then it's a good thing you're not good what do you got M uh the last thing I I wanted to remind folks I didn't mean to print all this I was going to hand you um so this Mac their environmental conference is coming up uh at holy cross cross more Stu yeah so we're if people are interested we're going obviously KY let's do it road trip so I meant I I'll send out I'll try to send it to everybody there's a schedule of classes so we should sooner and I I don't know how we're going to handle that because registration fee but you might have to reach out individually I'm going to talk to Mac I know J last time took care of it Forest because I didn't have an agent um no I'll be glad to help I can reach out to MACC those were the good old days that's how she keeps referring to that well we appreciate it Joan if you did that if you give me aist list of what you want to attend Tom what classes you want to take I've got one more fundamental to do doesn't need one but yeah so there's some and now if you want to take extras that's of course last so which one do we think last year I did the fundamental you us we did the fundamental I want to get this uh moving along so I just wanted to bring that up um we got to reach out and get folks registered um all right yeah uh no other business for the commission anybody none uh future business the next meeting of the Conservation Commission will be on January 29 2025 held for the continuation of the notice intend file for Lake Street future meeting actual normal meeting will be February 12th 2025 meeting is held at the town hall meeting room located at 122 Main Street P Mass um last order of business executive session executive session under General law chter 30A subsection 21 A3 three to discuss the strategy with respect the pending litigation Moses Lane Sol Sola 1 LLC if any if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public party and the chair so declares and the commission will not return to public session at the conclusion of executive session also executive session under General Law chapter 30 a subsection 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation in for Park Drive LLC if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public party and the chair so declares and the commission will not return to public session at the conclusion conclusion of executive session votes may be taken uh I will entertain a motion to ex enter executive session motion second second all right there's a motion in a second roll call vote all well all those in favor I roll call vote douas Thomas James Susan Ryan Mendes Christian that's unanimous we are now in executive session [Music] [Music] [Music] a