[Music] public hearing is now called to order at 600 p.m. on May 8th 2024 this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth an act relative to the protection of wetlands is most recently amended notice of the time and place this hearing was published in the faen neighborhood news on May 2nd was also posted in the town clerk's office persons wishing to be heard heard will be called in the following order this meeting is being recorded and will be on the ACC cushion YouTube channel for future viewing pleasure uh first order of business minutes for approval January 24th 2024 review of matters presented votes may be taken um I didn't have an issue with them anybody no is submitted there is a motion second all those in favor I okay on to Old business continued public hearing anrad Ray White 211 Middle Road SE file number 001 0591 an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation was filed by Ray White a property located at 211 Middle Road map 23 block 29 29a 29b the applicant is repres presented by Megan Kerns a West Samson Engineers Incorporated the plan name is existing conditions plan dated November two 2023 revised March 18th 2024 review of matters presented votes may be taken can I get a motion to open the public hearing Mo open is there a second second all those in favor I okay Megan curs I she asked for a continuance she asked for a continuance um okay so Bill do do you want to update the commission on the peer review process sure I can do that all right um we've been engaged by just for the for the Public's benefit we've been engaged by the time okay I'm Bill from GF engineering and we've been engaged by the Conservation Commission to review the inrad that was submitted on behalf of Ray White at um 211 Middle Road um I've had I've been in contact with Megan um and we've discussed the Wetland flagging that was conducted out there we've also conducted a site inspection of the flagging stations that exist in in the field we came up with an initial memo um based on our first walk through of the site and and um you know we noted in a form of a memo that I that I delivered to Megan I think I maybe was a little late in shipping it off to Conservation Commission members but outlined the major things that we saw on the plan um that were that needed to be addressed in our opinion um other than the five items that we talked about it looked like everything else was pretty good on the property we didn't really have too many questions um relative to that but the the gist of it all is that there were some um there were some weton flags that were missing in the field and I think it was due to mowing or field maintenance or something along that along along those lines um didn't really have any any issue with that but we just suggest that the applicant have those flags placed in the field so that we can review them the commission can review um any changes as opposed to what was what was originally placed in the field there was there's a u couple of areas one of them I don't have the plan in front of me so there's just in area between the D and the E wedland flagging um that looks to be a BBW as well and we've encouraged the applicant to um readdress that that area and provide additional flagging that may be needed and uh provide that on a plan and move on from there in an additional man um there's another area in the B series um Wetland flag that uh that those areas needed to be looked at a little more closely as well we think that there's a little bit more BBW than may be indicated on the uh in the field and on the plan so we're uh we're looking for that to be uh we're looking for that to be updated and just as a I'll interrupt the discussion just a little bit we we were just was talking to Megan about that we're tempting to get out there this Thursday to revise some things um I don't think it's going to happen this week we're going to put it off until um in the next within the next week or so so we'll have them readjust Wetland flagging and will go out there in assess what they have what they have placed in the field additional flags that they've placed in the field um there's also another area of of buffer zone that they you know we've suggested to them that they've add that they add some additional Flags they didn't put the additional Flags out there when they went back to the field so we um we haven't relieve them of that obligation that we feel necessary to truly get the the goal is to understand the wetlands that exist on the site and present them um in a manner acceptable to the commission so we need to get they need to get out there and do that we need to review that um we also had another area that same type of thing there's an area in the field that exhibited Wetland characteristics as far as vegetation goes uh we went out there augured some Holes test pits surficial test pits um they indicate some hydric soil so that was proving out to us that that Wetland line needed to be pushed a little bit further out into the field and that that remains to uh to be done and then I think there was another area of the site that was a little difficult to get to in the Northerly end that was uh maybe a little thick on vegetation and we asked for some additional flagging to be conducted in those areas and uh that has yet to be done as well but for the most part you know they did go back out they did look at what we presented them as far as our initial memo and we're still in the process of just ironing out the um the final flag locations in the field and then once those are done we'll uh we'll likely meet with them in with Megan in the field and uh you know approve everything approve it or at least agree that the delineation as presented is accurate so that's what's going on on on Middle Road right now wasn't aware that Megan was going to continue um tonight we did talk about putting the meeting off for two more weeks to give time for both groups to modify the Line review the line and and get it in its final perspective for the commission's approval excellent and that's pretty much where we are we are with that one but anything other than the Five Points that we had there was no there was no issue with uh with any of the other resource areas going need on the plan thanks bro thank you and I'm here too just to introduce myself Zack farcus I'm uh hired by the whites to work on the development side of the project excuse me sir um and so yes Megan's down here we're saving her the ride um but I'm here to answer any questions as well I don't have any commentary to bills um summer that's exactly what's going on we're going back out to adjust some of the flagging per uh gf's suggestions and then we'll memorialize all that in an updated plan send that back over the bill once we finally are in agreement we'll come back and present to you guys forward so you guys are okay with continuing to the next meeting and then we we'll hear it out y could we could we get something a little larger yeah should go out to site again yeah thanks Zach is there anybody from the public that has any questions comments on this project I don't know what that that revation is what's that mean to us j j or g whatever GF is the name of Bill's company when when Bill goes out or when we go back back out to make the adjustments per bills company's recommendations we'll then meet again in the field to make sure everyone's in agreement that the flags are in the right place meaning the Wetland lines are in the right place and then finally we'll come back to the commission um the goal of the in red process is to establish where the wetlands are and then once that's all agreed upon we can determine whether or not um developable area enough to continue yeah so Bill Bill Madden is um he is the engineer that's working for us he he's making sure that everything's on the up and up for the commission and with his Blessing we we'll make a decision based Onision we all do or just she's going to talk folks if you got a question or comment we' appreciate it if you could go up to the podium state your name and we'll go from there please thank you all right so for Middle Road I'll entertain a motion to continue to our next meeting so move is there a second second all those in favor I okay continue to May 22nd okay new business public hearing IR Rew Renewables 1094 Main Street off Clems way SE file number 001 0592 an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation was filed by Rew Renewables for property located at 1094 Main Street off clms way map 7 lot 15 the applicant is represented by Andrew Gorman of BS and Thomas Incorporated plan name is abbreviated notice of resource area delineation prepared for Rew Renewables dated March 25th 2024 review of matters presented votes may be taken I will entertain a motion to open the public hearing motion to open is there a second second all those in favor I Mr Gman is yours good evening Mr chairman members of the commission Andrew Gorman from bals and Thomas here on behalf of the applicant also with me this evening and Zach farcus on behalf of the applicant uh we are seeking an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation in O to confirm the Wetland boundaries on this parcel at 1094 Main Street otherwise known as off Len way uh we had the fortune of having a sight walk this past weekend with the commission and uh what I would like to do is introduce you to the property from the west to east orientation go through the wetlands and we do have Fortune of having the first round of peer review scrutiny so I'm going to talk about some of those recommendations as we go through so this the site has multiple Wetland resource areas bordering vegetated Wetlands isolated vegetated Wetlands there's a perennial stream and intermittent stream on the western most side of the property we have a perennial stream with a north south orientation uh that's what we take to cross into the site there are multiple bordering vegetated Wetlands connected to this um we have our large B and D series here which extends to the easterly portion of the property uh we see a portion of it also bifurcates the site here this little finger like projection um actually one of our first peer-review comments um is related to this area close to the stream related to the dbws uh something that we're looking at is whether or not these two protrusions connect uh the commission may recall there's kind of a depression there with some Wetland grasses between the two so we're going to be looking at whether or not these two features connect as we move further east there is that intermittent stream which is perpendicular to The Perennial stream it runs from the West to the sorry the East to the west of the property that is represented by our solid blue Bank Flags in the field so that's our J series here and our n series over here proximate to that intermittent stream we also have a bordering vegetated Wetland which protrudes off of it but does not connect to this BBW and then we also have an isolated Wetland over here just to the north of it another area that we're looking at as part of the peer review process are the J Flags um so that's about the central portion of the property uh there are about two or three flags in there where there's some sensitive Fern and some other hydr fites that are kind of escaping the Whitland line a little bit so we're going to try and look at that and refine our assumptions to um see if any changes need to be made over there the commission mayor call when we were out in the field in the easterly portion of the property there was an isolated vegetated Wetland flagged over here um as as this B and D series continues over one of the peerreview comments we received is whether or not this isolated feature is connected to this larger BBW so that is something that we're investigating the commission may recall some of those Spike grasses the rushes that were between these two creatures so that's something that we're looking at and then as we continue further east we have the start of our B series which is up here in the Northerly easterly portion of the property extends along this Logging Road and then we have a portion of the southerly w flag with our C Series here and the final peer review comment that we have to date involves looking at the connectivity between those two so as we continue to undergo the scrutiny of the peer review process that's something that we're going to be looking at but ultimately what we're seeking to accomplish here is um an oad an order of resource area delineation simply confirming that the boundaries are accurate for regulatory purposes I would love to open it up to comments and questions anybody from the commission I got a phone call not supposed to get too hot on anybody so I'm just going to sit back and shut up too hot on anybody that's you told me well I said on on Andrew about the the other issues that are on site we're talking about the Wetland flag and I don't know I shouldn't get a phone call to tell me how to act before a meeting okay happy to to answer questions about the W delation any questions on the delineation [Music] anybody from the public well we are reviewing what bill sent you right and you're going to change it according to Bill or work together with Bill so I I sent Bill an initial response that we're investigating it we haven't had further back and forth at that point but the commission will be in receipt of revised plans and be copied on all of that back and forth um so the four areas and I'll certainly let Bill speak for himself too um should the commission wish it uh but we're looking at those critically we just again this is the plan as it was submitted so there's likely going to another iteration that you see prior to any issuance or closing the [Music] hearing uh deorah Perry I live on the property AB budding this property 1122 Main Street so I just have basically three questions um one is um that you're talking about connectivity so I know that when we've had flooding in the past um that property has completely flooded and gone through the entire section beside by house all the way up to the actual buildings um beside the property so it has been like and I have photos of it where it's become literally like a Lake going from the um the brook that runs beside us uh like a crazy stream it becomes like a river and runs all the way up to the house or whatever that property is up up from us like a total swimming pool basically so in terms of connectivity I don't know what that means um there are animals that are living in that Brook there's a and I sent pictures um of some of them I don't have all of them but there are docks ducklings there's a river that's living in there there are great horned owls that live out there so all kinds of animals living out there a lot of vegetation obviously which you already know um there was uh land clearing going on there without permits that we had to call the police about our already so or I call the police about already so my concern is that everything is going to go by the rules um and that there's not going to be anything done without proper permits and uh things that are not going to be done without being followed by the rules proper rules um my concern is you know I'm all about taking care of the environment if this is going to be something that's good for the environment I think that's great um um but if it's not good for the environment if it's not going to be good for the the Wetland protection uh act that's already in place and it's going to cause harm then that's a concern that I that I do have I don't know where the proposed uh solar farm is is going in over there I don't know exactly where it's going in um you know this kind of stuff doesn't make sense to me I don't I don't understand when I look at that where that's actually going in um certainly if it's going to be a positive thing then I'm all for that but those are the things that I'm most concerned about and that I want to make sure are followed up properly with the conservation committee um and I I will fight to make sure that that happens so that's that's my only concern I'm all about supporting it if it's going to be a good thing but those are the concerns that I have thank you thank thank you anybody else with questions comments she she questions address yeah could you could you please address the connectivity that she so some of the questions like proposed development they're they're outside of the the scope of what we're trying to achieve with the anrat however the questions about connectivity and flood zone I'm happy to talk about a little bit more we have a um in addition to the resource that we're looking to confirm as part of the anr you know the Federal Emergency Management agency they map um the 100-year flood plane and under the wetlands protection act that's regulated as bordering land subject to flooding um and we show that here on our plan as a Zone a so again this is um independent of the flags that we're looking to confirm so is actually Main Street on there I'm sorry so sorry Main Street is here okay yep so what I'm going to trace the floodline the zone here with my pen this is what regulated as bordering land subject to flooding under the wellons protection act and should uh a proponent no matter what the development is we we don't know um if somebody wants to do work in the flood plan they usually have to do something akin to compensatory flood storage but again um the anrad is not looking at any work right now the permit that we're seeking is to confirm the accuracy under the scrutiny of third party review that what we've observed in the field is accurate um but again so there there is a protected flood zone here that is on the Westerly portion of the property that is separately regulated under the Wetland protection act okay so that's the Zone a here yeah so that that is a separate resource area so in terms of distance from that stream what are you talking about for for that that line you were just pointing out relative so it it meanders and it meanders based on the topography like an average yeah well I I I honestly cannot give you you get average because on the Northerly portion it hugs that stream this dotted dash line here the flood zone is right up against that delineation of The Perennial stream whereas here it bucks out and this is the 100t buffer zone it it almost extends 100 ft off of it and it continues souly until it bends back around at this Culvert here so again that's that's based on available FEMA mapping that zone Ed there's no elevation assigned to it currently but that is bordering land subject to flooding under the Wetland protection act so thank you for the question any other questions comments Donny Williams 1150 Main Street so a little bit north of that property over there and a big section of woods kind touched over there the really question uh I have a few small ones is really the impact I know this is a lot about the flagging I get it trying to flag delineate where it is actually Wetlands but this may The Forum or not May the committee but the M question is what is it going to do to not the enies but also all the the existing Wetlands all the the woods over there all the property over there all the impact that actually be do we know that yet is that proposed that or I just kind of like it's still preliminary we don't have a final yeah we haven't seen any plans yet Noti has been filed or anything so just the area this is this is just located everything so even like what the Wetland impact is have an idea of what it will do in the process another issue so we have to flag it all out figure out where it is you figure out what the impact may be but in experience figure out setbacks as well there's there's a lot to be and then once they figure all out then they'll give us a notice of tent what they're looking to do right you know what I mean so until we get the notice jumping a little bit late to the I apologize first heard this was actually nor of the mail not everybody else understand I think it's a lot of new people same as well so we might we're just getting all we're just trying to get everything put together like where the wetlands is all that the next meeting when they come in they'll give us a plan and by storm water uh storm water bylaws through town and everything um the object of those laws is to make sure that the impact of a structure does not exceed or change the impact that was already originally there not saying engineering works all the time but that's the reason behind from yeah so that was just just C we just keep keep updated on the website we got stay stay tuned pretty much right I I presume at least they must have an idea of what they want to put on the property or scope of it but we don't know nothing has been subed yet they have an idea in their head they want to build over there but we don't know yet most likely most likely most like cuz obviously if they they buy a property they must already have an idea right they're not going to buy it and then hope they can do something with it they again until everything is delineated and we agree upon it absolutely nothing nothing further can and and there's only so much they can do with it to depend on z a lot that's other boards too there zoning boards um different areas you can do different stuff be another last piece Sol pales we B based on the applicant on on the agenda it says Rew Renewables I'm going to assum have no idea well be building they be a rocket ship over determine that it's it's going to be so long I don't it's it just hasn't been presented yet so okay yeah we have engine Eng I work for bills and Thomas he's an engineer I'm not not an engineer I'm I'm a well delineator sorry I is is this again lead to the party is it common that we know so little about a project before I get I get I get the not at this point not at this point so this is uncommon as we know you know at this point again nothing has been submitted yeah this this is a pilot process so you're in a butter so you were notified about this part of the process when they file the notice of intent you're going to get notified for that as well so this and then you'll know exactly what they're talking yeah that's everybody will you have to be notified all the and bolts at that point just one click probably is that in your experience is this normal for us at this point in the process is this normal for nobody have any idea yeah no fine yeah well we let me give you an example there was an anrad that we had years back at Flying Cloud Orchard that has since expired nothing was ever developed there when they C they're going to have to do something similar next time perfect thank you all over appreciate it very much no problem that's any other questions comments I am Kevin F I live here what's your Ed please uh 86 Robinson Road I have a question how long is this process going to take oh you time are we talking about 6 months 6 years no oh for the for this part for the for the inrad what they they filed with us and we held off before we posted the public hearing so that because we knew there was going to be back and forth with the engineers Bill Madden represents the town uh Andrew Gorman's representing the applicant so we sent the plans out first so that it wasn't when we got the filing you got a uh and a butter notification and then it was just going to be continued and continued and continued and continued and people forget you know so so for it to stay fresh in everybody's Minds we started the process we just we passed off the plans to our engineer and now there's back and forth going with the engineers our engineer had some issues on site that he wanted to have addressed he's working on them so it's back and forth and once both Engineers are in agreement that's when the commission will make a final determination a year no I would say maybe could be next meeting it could be the meeting after six weeks maybe tops now typically does those notices come through so vague that you have no idea what it means does anyone else feel the same way you get this notification and it's Beals and it was some company out of scoro main you know that that was our company that's say something about that wild made it seem like it was a Wildlife Rehabilitation place going in there something it's like till you Google it and look it up you have no idea what it is right thank tell you what they're doing or anything and I heard that the solar farm on the other side of was all that electricity is going to New Hampshire you know so that's what my neighbor was telling me is that going to be like the same type situation here where they're going to put a farm in from Maine and we're not going to get any benefit from it all nothing to do that I'm not getting flooded out y well that's part of the process look what happened over on road they put that farm in and all the neighbors are getting flooded even with all that engineering it didn't work was our assurance that we're paying taxes and we're not going to get flooded out by this thing going in the people in Maine don't care about us but we need to care about ourselves we pay a lot of money in taxes and we don't want our land flooded out I I agree we I mean we got out I saw him pointing out stuff all over the place here yeah it makes it seem like there's Wetland everywhere on this property I don't see put one panel here one panel here and one panel there just say avoid the wetlands it seems like it's everywhere no matter how much the engineers go back and forth it seems to me that there's Wetlands well that's why we're going through this process that's why we're going through this so we can find the wetlands and figure out insurance that nobody's cutting corners and doing something they shouldn't be doing well there has been Corners cut on this project and there's stuff that people are doing that shouldn't be doing and that's why now we're involved and um actually I got a few questions for Bill as soon as Bill gets up to the Pod already coming in clear like one of the other bus said what's up with that yeah yeah well you know I encourage you to come to the meetings that concern this project and and voice your opinion as it progress and anybody else everything will be transparent as far as this board goes we're just looking for the assurances that this is going to affect our land yeah well right now we have to figure out they have to figure out what their wetlands are to even figure out what they can put on the property cuz if there's too much Wetlands then they won't even be able to do what they want it's kind of like it doesn't matter if they buy it they don't buy it or you need to know what the Wetland boundaries are and all your delence have trouble saying that diligence yeah to before you proceed with any project so this is kind of just like the beginning of the road saying okay so now I have this much free acreage that I can use I have to say 300 away from streams I have to stay 150 buffer zone here they gave me Leni over here we can go 75 that's all stuff that needs to be worked out before they even figure out what they can put in I'm assuming if going to be fire lanes and stuff going around this all that has to be we all have to we got to figure out what's usable before anybody can go forward that's not our that's not our so we're just trying to figure out our right we're just one one step in the process okay thank you all right anyone else any questions comments Bill floor is yours okay thanks um Andrew gave a pretty concise presentation as to where where we are in the project the few areas that we talked about that you talked about are the areas that we presented as as requiring a little bit more examination on the site so it's just the reasonable progression of the project as it is so that we can determine what the Wetland constraints will be on the property once that's addressed um we'll know what usable area of the of the property is going to be there pursuant to the Wetland regulations and then a project can move something can happen with the land at that point we're deter we're just really trying to determine what the net usable land area is on the property as it as it relates to the Wetland resource areas that are there there's other things that are not gerine to what the conservation is going to be dealing with but those those are like zoning requirements or your zoning bylaws for a solar field and things of that nature so those all have other components that that weigh into this and so when they examine what our net usable land area is that remains for the project someone will have to make decision at that point in time as to whether um the project that they Envision is one that fits on the site or is one that needs to be modified to fit on the site I think if you look at an area photograph and you just look at it looks like there's two big fields right there but as you can see the detailed examination that's being done of the property tells us a little bit of a different story and so we're just working through those little details to come up with a a inclusive net usable land area pursuant to weapons on the lot and Andrew has identified all the things that that we pointed out and you know no push back he's uh understands where we're coming from we understand where he's coming from and that we work to uh accomplish the goal and get this thing wrapped up sooner as soon as reasonably possible oh I got a question for so at the edge where they cleared the land they got a Sil fence up there now do you think any of that CL land was in the wetlands where they cleared because if you look at the side of the woods that is still woods they got the Wetland Flags right along that silrance then they took cleared the property and to me it didn't look any different even the materials that were in piles looked identical to what was in the wetlands so do you think that they preached on the wetlands clearing that property which were we talking about the that go down the logg road the um my opinion is it looks as though there was some encroachment into the Wetland areas um on each side of that and they have a I think a B series and a c series that identify Wetlands on each side of that logging Logging Road um there was I don't know I don't recall who mentioned it but someone mentioned that there was a old Woods Road through that area at one point in time in the past but we feel that the that still should be evaluated as bvw because it is it is altered land and that was just recently filled that road 2 and 1 12 3 in crushed stone is what I noticed yeah I noticed the cobbles that are in there and you know why knowbody and there was even chunks of concrete and stuff so I know that that wasn't native you know what I mean so whatever they put in there was brocken material but to me it feel like like they broke they're trying to stop that Wetland from crossing over to land to to go where it naturally belong mons with that road and go ahead I'm sorry no go ahead no I was just saying there is a great change though as we go through that that Woods Road it has a little sag in it about halfway down where it's the wetest portion and then it then it inclines a bit to the rear portion of the site where that looks to be Beyond a wetland resource area I agree with you the soils look very similar the vegetation looks kind of similar um but when you group them all together it doesn't qualify as BBW for that big open area out at the back along the roadway coming in yes and the only comment that I have on that roadway is it appears to me that in addition to the traveled lane or the width of the the Woods Road itself looks like there's some Fringe work that resulted in with that roadway construction and I would just encourage um Andrew to look at that closely and make sure that we get the true perimeter boundary of that land alteration and not just liit to the 10t wide or 11t wide that one might drive on then the other issue I had is that where it looks like they like Moses was there and they ped that river that looks like a a Doug River like that that was put in there that ain't a natural River do you think that's affect going to affect the natural Wetlands because that River was dug in that was not that's not a natural River when I was walking in and seeing that I could see that you know it's it's not a an existing that's a fresh River are we talking about it on that woods road again on the right hand side when you walk so when you go down the Woods Road it's actually on the left side you'll see it and it looks like like I said it's a clear path probably 40 foot wide with a river in the middle and it was 100% cleared out and that River was dug in and I'm just saying to myself what is that what is that going to change to the Natural Wetlands that they put in that should have never been dug in period you know they made a river and are you see like between sheet two and Sheet three right is that what you're talking so do you mean that main one that we walked and and I said it looked like Moses potted it on the way back when we were walking the northern so you're talking about intermittent stream which flows through here it's channelized and it Outlets over here into the pond that's the stream that we're talking about just for reference right am I correct sure it was it it was on our walk back right it was well I started on the walk out right okay and I said wow look at that it looked like someone poted the river and then when we were walking back is when I noticed that that was not a natural river that was that was dug in someone dug that in and I said actually to you and to Ryan as soon as we were coming around the corner I said this ain't a natural I said somebody dug this in cuz you could see all the rough gravel it wasn't old it was it was like a fresh rib that somebody dug in so a Chan ized feature within this BBW that's that's what we're talking about yeah um we we maintain that it's an intermittent stream um it's it's a jurisdictional intermittent stream inside the BBW yeah but it was if that was Doug that wasn't natural that's not a natural stream so that's what I'm saying we don't have any uh I I don't know off hand what the history of that if that predated the violence protection act when the stream was excavated well that's new because you can see the gravel in it it's like it hasn't even worn out and so I was walking it and I'm like oh my God this thing is someone dug this at first on the way out I was saying that that stream someone cleared both sides of the stream is what I was thinking right and when we were walking out to the clearing where they took down the woods I said okay I said it looked like Moses went through here and just made a clear path that's what I said and then when we were coming back I said wait a second I said this river is not a natural River someone dug this in this thing was dug in could it be a sale no it a a Swale man so no this was dug in especially at at that where rounded that corner you could clearly see that there was a piece of equipment in there that that you still see the tracks you see the excavated tracks up there um this is manmade and I agree with Jimmy on this and what is that so if they did a man-made intermittent stream what does that affect to the wetlands they're not naturally flowing like they were before that was put in so I I'm not familiar enough with the historical conditions and how this this may have changed over time um so uh in terms of flagging the wetlands and trying to come up with an accurate boundary um we've been out here uh I think it was December 2023 and then the months following uh flagging it out we did not flag the stream because it's interior of the BBW again still a regulated area um but in terms of the the historical context of when work may or may not have occurred I I don't have an answer of well I went back to um 20 2020 I think and that stream was not on there it wasn't cleared out there and um I'm just looking at it saying if they're over there customizing the land before all this gets done the aat and stuff so what is the real effect it's like we're not getting the real effect because it's already been already altered and even the intermittent stream along the trail AAC right there's been pine trees that have been taken down and you're not allowed to take pine trees down right on edge of a river or any River and there's been pine trees taken down that are very fresh they've been coming down so I have a lot of like concerns about this property that someone is altering it to get the most out of this property and then call us in after the fact so we here after the fact that someone's alter alterated the plans and I just want the commission to know that this is not right it's like if they making the land do what it wants what the hell are we even here for correct I agree I agree you know so I have a lot of issues with this property and I'm not trying to hammer you I understand because I was already told not to but I did want to ask Bill um you know call me about nothing with with respect to a river whether it's me whether it's natural Cur or me and may it still is protectable under the wetlands act so we do have a protected resource herea there Riv no Riverfront area because it is intermittent but it still is protectable under under the but do you think it affected the property any though by is is that going to make any difference I think we're getting off subject I don't think so because now you're taking and you're putting in a river and directing the water that could have gone through the fields and maybe made more Wetlands Ryan I mean ER we're just trying to identify right I I agree that it was dug when it was dug I don't I don't know I didn't see track it does look like you know okay close your yeah so I I know someone I'm just going to say that he is out there daily with his bulldozzer moving things around cutting things down and it's a continuous event every single day what was the last time yesterday yesterday did you did you call anybody no because I've called before and he's way on the other side now because he knows I'm watching him he's altering the land you Al the going to call to to the commission to the police am I going to call every day though I mean he's out so he he he's out there every day with bulldozzer there's there's rocks being moved there's giant piles of land in the middle of that field which I'm sure whoever went out there saw um the field has been dug up trees have been cut down the police did come when he cut down trees right next to the brook because I was screaming that he was on the brook cutting down and clearing a line of trees right on the Waterway and that was I don't know whether that was last year or the year before but it's it's marked whenever it was and they had to come out and tell them to stop he said he did not know he needed a permit um did not know that that was Wetland protected area and then now he moved to the other side of the of the area to cut down stuff where I can't see him anymore but I hear the bulldozzer going all the time and I see them coming with big chunks of rocks and all kinds of stuff and filling up the area in the middle it's coming from somewhere on that property so come on like we're not going to say he's not changing the landscape out there he's changing the landscape is trying to divert his storm water do you know that gu personally are you friends that doesn't make any sense doing I don't please he's definitely doing something illegal to the W so I I spoke with the landowner I'd say uh like a month ago let him know that he had stopped and he told me he didn't know and a filing was coming in so I said okay hold off the filing came in I figured it was a notice in 10 it's an anr so that's that's kind of where we're at with the work I didn't know that like there was continuous work because I told him to stop he does know indeed that he's not supposed to be doing things without filing for permits and so forth I mean how many times can you claim ignorance of the law right I mean you so actually none no disrespect to you I mean of course but he he knows he's trying to manipulate we haven't received any calls ever since I I spoke with them so I mean that's why I say it's important to make the phone call I will they do they they don't fall in De years they get looked into so and Saturday there was Fresh Tracks there from oozer or whatever was going through so who is this guy excavator I don't know Zach do you know the guy I sored by yeah so why ain't he here defending himself it's not part of it's it's not on the agenda so so we can we can ask the land owner to come in and we can make a determination on that Jes I think we should I agree that's fine I have no issue with that joke ran we have a question in the audience go ahead young man stand and this my be procedural in my 10 minutes listen on the conversation to recap we have two current board members right who themselves are testifying that they've seen work done out there in violation and modifying the property they shouldn't be we have an engineer that's on our side with pay who gave his expert opinion right that he thinks that probably stuff was already encroached and moved upon okay we have a neighbor who has already said again more iess testimony saying hey I saw that guy doing that stuff you made a very valid point and I agree with you you make a a river right or a stream so it doesn't flood out the property you dry out half the property by making one stream it's a wash no Fender right you give her that one piece and it dries out procedurally the question is what do we do now I know we talk about transparency and oversight and a bunch of other stuff but if two comme members are testifying the engineer says it's a problem possibly right open spot is a is probably a problem there and a neighb says it's a problem and we say wow like what like what of the steps from here like what do we CU as already mentioned which I appreciate very much the gain is to alter the property before they call you except you've already caught on to it good I appreciate you very much that's what you met a woman here for but now you've caught on to it what do we do how can we force them to stop like how do we is there any repercussions or he needs to you can issue a formal ceasing assess and go from there or bring him INE if he has an explanation for he is moving drain water so be it but like if is like like the question really is Where Do We Go From Here what is the next step procedurally I can make a motion that we do send him a cease and assist considering he hasn't stopped since you told them to so I think we should make that official so I'm going to take a motion that we do send them a ceas and assist and I'll second that all right there's a motion in a second all those in favor all right all right there you go he's going to get a written C syn assist and then how does it work procedurally from there if the if the neighbor again she knows she pay attention good and she realizes that next Tuesday there's more work what do we like what what are the steps is there any more is there any more oversight from you men and women like you guys spot checks do you guys like well we got the represent of the right we can actually the season to of tomorrow in writing in writing and then we'll go from there but I mean if it's real bad we could always come up with replications and there's other things we can do so I think if he's still continuing after Ryan told him to stop the cease and assist is in order I know that we don't we don't really like putting stickers on but I think this one deserves a sticker cuz he's still going and then we'll go from there and see what we'll talk with Bill and just put our minds together and figure out what's the best route but there has been alternations to the land and um you know we could even Force to go back to its normal State I believe replication replication yeah so see typically you go with a verbal you know and if somebody agrees to stop and they stop then we proceed from there however when somebody tells you to kick rocks that's yeah that's when it becomes for that's the way I look at it and I agree with you and it appears that that's that's what happens usually when we give a verbal they usually stop yeah ex yeah so for them to continue is kind of a slap in our face yeah is's a slap in the face the boy the engineering like is it spot checks if you will cuz like moving forward if he gets a letter tomorrow not the engineer the engineers going be the expert if he goes back out the from the surve they're going they're going to work on the delineation they're not going to work on any kind now in the middle of of the delineation of the property and Thomas and and our engineer are still going to work together putting up the Wetland Flags doing the delineation lines so that's still going to happen that's probably but this could really change the noi a lot with him altering the land the way he did and continue altering it after he's been want to stop and that was how many weeks ago Ryan couple months at least so two months he's still doing work in there after a two month St excuse me I said I don't know I'm not there I don't think so chair res was very clear in an email we responded we got some um silt fence up within a couple hours and was made very clear nothing happens back there so this is news to me but obviously I don't I don't live with you guys yeah and like I said when I walked it Saturday there are fresh Dozer tracks going right back down to the ra l Road over the grass it was and I'm saying these weren't stopped and I figured maybe they would just pull the equipment out of there is what I thought cuz I saw the tracks going in and out and I'm like okay maybe Ryan told them to stop so now they need the equipment somewhere else so they pull the equipment out and that's what I thought about the tracks but then when she saying they're still working there well guess what those tracks mean more to that means more to me now than it did on Saturday I don't live on property I know there's only two things I can think of um there's a solar project being built right behind it on the white land there's a cu the with the solar project being constructed off Robinson Road which would it be on that grass I no no I'm just saying from noises right there right back there and um there was some notice from the land owner that the mosqu Plymouth County Mosquito was in the area so I don't know what's going on but there only two things I heard but like I said Cher you sent an email if me copy no shovels no nothing back there and to my knowledge nothing has happened but if that's if that's not being followed then I'm not defending anyone okay you got me on an A on that right what's that say that again was making sure she had me as a n n on what on the vote you Eric everybody else I do have one more question so listening to everyone talk you do believe that this was kind of dug out to make now examining the land on each side of can you determine how much was dug out by sampling the soils on each side of what what's missing can you kind of figure out how much was taken out to create that River or whatever you want to call that well that's really hard to determine but if that river is right down in the middle of a wetland area already so what my own personal opinion he stopped it from going into the field with that River and what he did is he put it right down the center of a wetland area but if we want am I correct by saying that bill see we that that little rivo if it was dug in it was put right down the middle of a wetland area well until we have that I'm not speculate exactly what happened but in order to repair it we would need to know how much was removed so that could be put back so we can get an actual picture of what this land was before it was altered to pull the wool over your eyes you can go back on maps uh Google Maps and a lot of n map will take you back to like 2017 2018 cuz it would seem that the the fair thing to do would be to have that put back how it was let the let the rain everything hit it let everything grow like it normally would and see where it truly would be that's not how it works so that we could see what is really wet land and what really isn't Wetland the fated wet land whatever because right now we're working on a a fake picture of what it truly is because they eved it that uh that discussion will be on on our next agenda y all right thank you thank you thank you Bill any uh final comments we got someone standing up I just done oh all right um no I don't have anything further Dad we're just continuing to work with and Thomas on the delineation and um expect it to be to move forward forward and get it done in the next couple of weeks okay so Andrew you have request any continuance we're requesting a continuance to the next scheduled meeting so I believe that's two weeks out May 22nd okay um I'll entertain a motion to continue to our next meeting May 22nd so move is there second second all those in favor let's continue to the next meeting thank you all than you okay you need to close the public no what that no it's continue oh I'm sorry um next on the agenda storm water navon 550 Main Street peer review update review of matters presented votes may be taken Bill's working hard tonight okay naison 550 Main Street um I spoke today I was speaking with the engineer from ran Associates um you know he sent down to us the the drainage calculations and things like that we we've just really done it St um we're working on you know I did a quick interview of the plan there's a there's some comments that we have to make on it uh you know it it we think it lacks a little detail that we that we really need to know on the site and uh when I spoke to um the engineer Meridian today he didn't have any problem with putting that on there so I have the drainage calculations I do have some questions on it they're a little bit more technical than I think you probably want to hear at this point but one of the major things is like with the out control structures that they have here there's a note on the plan saying that they're using design CR criteria and my first question is like which design because there have been several on the site and I think that he needs to identify what they're actually um using as the design and that's fine but I want the as I think we need the as built information if we're going to be retaining those structures those water control structures in each one of those drainage basins let's have the true elevations of things that's one of the my comments when he had his overflow spillways and when he placed his uh level spreader and things you know given the fact that the contractors that have been working out there I don't know what they understand or misunder understand or whatever but I think when you have a number written on a plan it's easier to achieve that goal other than meeting that number as opposed to just saying oh well I thought this was good enough oh no it should be on plan I agree yeah so that's where that's where we are with him on it you know and um but the drainage calculations when I started to look through those today um there's a couple of things in there that we need to need to address with them and uh before I think before I talk about the details of things because we don't know if they're going to end up that way we don't know if it's if the project is going to end up with the same size orifices say on the outlet control structures that they're planning for now or we going to go with another one so it doesn't really make a lot of lot of so is this a new engineer you're working with yes yeah yeah so that that's where that's where we are with that you know I want the drain you know we have the drainage areas is a new drainage basin being put in there drainage basin one which flooded the neighbor out um previously causes his well an issue and his little fire Pond an issue you know really need to know where the limitations of everything are particularly at that location just so that we can avoid any adverse impact to the butter I mean that's the goal is to mimic the pre-development conditions and when that field was when was what it was originally you know didn't appear to have this um drainage problem so I'm that was all Woods correct yes yeah so they took a po took all the loom down took everything down all the trees out and now it becomes just everything washing everywhere the natural yeah and there was a little of an issue with the uh you know the actual conditions that exist during construction because we do typically we'll do a pre-development drainage calculation and then we will'll do the post-development drainage calculation so we'll take it the way it is today and we'll analyze that and then we'll take it as it's completed and we'll analyze that but the regulations don't require us to analyze what happens in between and the in between period of time is really the period of time where you can get the most negative results on any construction site because there's no vegetation there's a lot of exposed soils um we're not really thinking about those things with the pre- and post drainage calculation so really incumbent upon who's ever working on the site to really be in tune with their storm water management plan um the erosion control plan that's that's in place and then they have to be executed essentially to Perfection so that we don't have any adverse impact on the uh on the neighbors then that's really I think what the the major issue was and that's one that's been struggling to uh we've been they've been struggling to to to remedy that situation so that's where we are now it's going to take me a little bit more time to to to get through that drainage right I say something yeah go ahead Steve okay hello everybody um Steve um I appreciate everything you're saying yeah and we'll work through it I we're I told you we were going to fix this we've been trying to fix it it went a little bit longer than we thought it was we're trying to get this right right we don't want to have to to mess around with this what I would ask is and I think we've all understood this through sidewalks and everything like that what we're trying to do is alleviate some a lot of the water that's going to the north and to the Northwest and trying to capture it and discharge it to the South which is why we're just we're increasing the size of that Basin in the southwestern corner I think everybody and I think you would agree with the Swale meridians proposing to beef up the Swale so we capture more get it flowing in the right direction I think what bill is saying is we need to get into the details on those two northern and western basins to finalize everything which I'm fine about the only thing I'm concerned about what I would ask tonight is if we're okay with the concept if I could start grading the expansion of the bigger Basin and here's why I want to start growing grass because I do not want to go the summer without growing grass so I'd like to start pushing some dirt around on that Northern Basin get that drainage Swale in the middle of the site increase the 6 in which is what Meridian says I'll pay for Bill or whoever to come out and inspect as construction goes along we I think we locked out a little bit here that the coolness pushed a little bit so we have a window here I want to get the Earth down I want to get some loan down and I want to get some grass growing out there and then what we're fixing then is the details around the outlet control making sure those are right make sure all the details are right on the elevations I think we're all in agreement that uh Outlook control level spreaders on both the nor the northern and the Western bases help the original design just had them blasting out so we're going to spread it out a little bit better I agree we can look at the inl the inlet controls and make sure we have all the elevations right but I am really concerned about grass not growing and so I want to try to potentially just start moving some Earth around and getting that Basin at least rough formed and if we need to do it a little bit then we're spot treating um but I'd like to get some of that that that would my only request and I don't have a problem coming back in two weeks or or working with Bill over the next couple of weeks to get the get a final sign off I'm going to keep doing everything my own personal opinion is we go by a cons something whatever Bill recommends I think is what we should go with that's my own and with that Earth work that Steve's talking about doing I think the plan needs to be um provided with a little more detail so we know what the grading has to be it's an 80 scale plan the grading is shown on that um I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to leave it up to a contractor to finish off how that gring's got to be for that for that so he should we'll get a we'll get a blow up tomorrow and we and we talked about that today so we were on I was on the same page with Meridian with that well we're going to go by what you're thinking we get we'll get it right Mr all I'm saying is I don't want to lose two weeks and if I do and I have to go in the summer and two weeks two weeks is a lot of issue right now we need to get this done so if if we can do this if Bill and I can work with something we get a plan that he then says yeah okay I think we're good on the grading I think that might that's all I'm asking I I and usually I'd be fine come back in two weeks and get it approved but two weeks right now I want I don't want to go and miss the growing season and I I think the growing season like a June 15th date is one of the dates that we just happen to use on plans and we do our when we do our our our summer and spring seating it's usually like approaching the drop dead date so I like to view it that there's probably about 30 days to get all this stuff done so between the engineering the physical work I think there's adequate time to get it to a point where we can be successful with the vegetation that's being planted that there and you got to have a robust planting plant it's got to include some Top Soil some some good seed some fertilizer and some cover to keep the seed in place however they're however they're going to do it I mean the seed needs to be needs to it needs a hyro SE I'm I'm not arguing I've told this Bo I've told this whole town I'm here to fix what I'm what is here I just I don't want to create another problem by trying to fix it and then go through the summer with something I'm in agreement with what you said Jimmy that you know if uh he works that out with the GF I don't see why we can't be on board with that okay yeah we want to make sure that it's large enough too so we got to really check want to all those yeah so when when Bill sees plans that he signs off on right yeah I have no problem going recommendations do I have to come back here I would I would say no I don't I don't see why I say we go bed I'll come back at the end and say we're done and tell or I can Ryan you and I are talking can keep you got a commission member right there per se Bill there for us he's going to be right there watching and seeing and I do um really respect the way Bill say also about the contractor it doesn't matter what it says on the contractor don't build it properly it don't mean crap right you know it's just I want just want to be clear I'll P for him to come out and look inspect all this inspection I'm fine I want to do this right okay so sounds good yeah yeah no we just want to get I mean collectively as a group that's the objective is to get a uh and I do want to say Meridian wanted to be here but they were coming out for Beverly they left at quarter of four and at quarter six they were only in Lexington so oh boy that was a nice ride there yeah that was good sitting ining motion more fun than that I know I don't I don't I don't think so neither we're relying on bills we yeah so I think we're all in agreeance right yeah I don't think yeah all right bill you got it in your pocket keep an eye out for once he signs off letter to you guys that we're good good I'm kidding you just have to do it anyway all needs he's been trying like hell I know that we'll get it sure okay thanks very much has any just while I have has anybody else said anything that's a good that's a good point Evol uh issues any have you gotten any calls any any since you got the one on I got the one and I told them we would be here tonight and that was the last one right May yeah yeah is is anybody here from Scotts right no oh okay nope I okay because I think like over the into q1 in Fe in that February March time we had again because we weren't having rain we were having two or three inches of rain during the dur q1 yeah we're back to 3/4 of an inch even today was was quick period but a lot yeah did so we want we want to fix this and we want to get it done so that we get back to that yeah I got that complaint I emailed the the resident and gave her your email and I had sent it all cuz it was starting a new thread so I sent it to selectman hingley and and selan hinley said Steve already sent it to me so yeah that's how that's how transparent Steve is with the town so it's just that's you know T well my father always said if the principal knows your name either you're real bad or you're real good I don't think you were real good but I started I started not so good but I think I'm okay now tell me the other so all right guys thank you very much okay um other business any other business that may properly come before the commission not reasonably anticipated with the last 48 hours prior to the meeting um received an email from is it Dave for that Dave for that yes Dave for that uh regarding 185 M pois Road um he had some changes to the plans and there's a question whether or not he needs to file for an amendment or La um or if he can proceed with changes to the plans and then file them uh with the asilt asilt yeah at so um I I mean we can put it we can put it on the next agenda and discuss it right um yeah review it right I I say we'll just put it on the next agenda that makes sense just you know just under discussion yeah you want him here um do we need him to to I mean somebody's going to have to show you well I mean that's what I'm asking Chang right are we going to yeah I I you know I'd like to put it in front of the commission I don't really want to give my opinion on it we'll have we yeah better off we'll we'll um you don't need a site visit but you like no we don't need a site visit just just a comparison of the two plans right um I think that would be good and then we'll make that a commission's decision okay so I'll tell Dave for the next meeting I I think that's the best way to go bring before plans and the plans that he has proposed okay uh future business the next meeting for the Conservation Commission will be on May 22nd 2024 we have um executive section executive session under General Law chapter 30 a subsection 21A 3 to discuss strategy respect to pening get rid of our meeting first yeah uh what we can do join um we can make a motion to regular um to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigations and car for Park Drive LLC if an open open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares and the commission will not return to public session at the conclusion of executive session votes may be taken also executive session under General Law chapter 30A subsection 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to pending litigation Moses Lane Sola 1 LLC if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public bodyy and the chair so declares and the commission will not return the public session at the conclusion of executive session votes may be taken I will entertain a motion to leave regular session and enter executive session some moved all those in favor roll Douglas Thomas James sus Ry I ever I Ed Eric I Christian I okay we are now in executive session [Music] [Music] [Music]