All right, we are on. Okay. Uh being 7:00, do we have a motion to open? >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Okay, we are open for business. >> Uh good evening everyone. This is a meeting of the finance committee. It's Wednesday, January 28th, 2026.
Um, we are going to meet today to discuss a reorganization of our committee, uh, review of President FY26 budget and expenditures, um, and possible reserve fund requests that could be coming down the pike, uh, FY27
budget overview as well. Um, hope everybody's recovered from the uh the snowstorm we just had, the little blizzard minus the minus the wind. And we have more, I think, coming on uh this
weekend, unfortunately. So, we're not going to talk about the snow removal budget tonight, >> I'm afraid. So, um, as far as reorganization of the committee, um, I'm planning on staying
on as chair of the, you know, committee soon. >> I have an option. >> Well, not really. >> I'll stay on as vice chair. >> Okay. >> As long as everyone still wants that. >> All right. Good. And I did we did
everyone have a liaison assignment? Um last year >> I had old colony I'd like to keep. >> You want to keep Old Colony? Okay. Eric, did you >> I always DBW. >> Okay. >> I think I was fire. >> Fire. You like EMS?
>> Phil. >> You golf? >> I could do police. I think >> I know that. >> Did Mr. St. Jean have police? I think you had golf. >> I had golf building. I had the golf um building.
>> I thought I thought Mr. Sanene had the Enterprise Fund, >> but I could be wrong. >> I don't remember. Um >> well, we're definitely going to need somebody for golf because we got, >> you know, this building a lot going on
with golf coming up. >> So, I think that's going to be important. Well, if if he had part of it, it makes sense to just keep it all in house. >> So, do you want to stay as the golf leazison? >> Okay. All right. I think that makes sense. >> And then um
if Mr. St. Gene wants to be the lea liaison to police, I think you could do that. Um we didn't have one. I don't believe did we have one for library? Lisa, did you have an assignment? >> I did not have one. >> I had library a few years ago was the last time I had it.
>> I don't know if anybody did it last year. We've had I mean we've had liaison for the library in the past. >> Yeah, it was first year I was here was obviously a leazison for the library. >> I don't think Kristen had um
leaison. >> You want to split the seeing there's going to be a lot going on with golf. I don't know you want to split that with two. >> We still have our own school system too. >> That's usually >> Yeah. Sue and I will
>> we didn't jump on that so I didn't know if >> yeah we'll continue taking care of the you know schools. >> All right. So we can we can leave uh some of this open. Um I mean Lisa if you want if you want to
be a leazison to library. >> Yeah that's fine. >> You want to do that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And then the other one will be uh police. We'll see if Mr. St. She can take that one >> if he can't. I can always I mean
>> I can always >> fill in >> fill in because I know Gary. >> Okay. >> Oh, Kristen. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah, she doesn't. >> So, Kristen. >> Okay. So, I'll ask her when she gets here in a
little bit. Other than that, um glad to see Mr. Kelly is uh is doing well and he's he's with us. Um, and he still >> actually embody.
>> So, he's going to he put together a nice memorandum for us and uh an overview of FY27 estimates so we can go through some of this stuff. I think
uh possible I'd like to go through out of order and leave uh the FY budget process FY27 budget process till the end. >> Okay? >> Cuz a lot of these other things are
going to go fairly quickly. >> Okay? >> Uh FY26 expenses. Uh Jamie B did a halfyear analysis. Everything is within plus or minus 10%
which is what we wanted to see. uh other than a couple overtime accounts and uh some of the overtime accounts are very small in dollar
and it looks like in the past they might have been uh used while there are other larger overtime accounts under the same departmental
umbrella that uh we're holding off of probably to look at what's going on outside today. >> Yeah. So, uh, that's just traditional if, you know, if you've got a very large
overtime account and an account with a couple thousand dollars in it, you probably are going to go through that account. And then at the end of the year, you
might look to transfer some of the large overtime account to fill that because you can't predict when you have a break in pipe >> or anything like that. That just happens.
>> So I think you know the uh department of >> Yeah, I know this one. >> Yeah. Uh and we're monitoring those. Uh the police overtime account is perfect.
>> Okay. And part of that is uh I'm sure in that uh we have uh everybody is monitoring it closely and there are uh
under the new police contract it just seems to be working right. >> Yeah. because in the past that was always an issue. >> Mhm. Well, that and the fact we b we budgeted closer to reality, but it's I
think it was at like 52% at the half year. And I mean that we've never I've never seen that all the years I've been here. >> Well, it seems like over the past four or five years, we've taken baby steps to make that end of half year, end of year
difference a lot smaller, which is good. Uh, and you have less people uh in the department uh being called up for duty overseas and stuff like that. That helps. Uh
the annual accounts with the one annual payments we didn't really look at, you know, that's like the software accounts that you get one. We just blew through those because we knew they were going to be 100%
by September 1. >> Mhm. >> Uh so I don't have any real worries other than a couple reserve accounts. It looks like 10 to 12,000 for the COA for the
sprinkler system will be coming forward. Uh Becky's got a small account for carcass removal. We've blown through that
and uh she doesn't have a large budget anyway. >> Mhm. And so it's not like there's anywhere else in the budget I can take the money from, but it'll be a small amount, maybe a thousand.
Uh the same with the tree warden. Uh and part of it is looking forward. We took some trees down that were dangerous. >> Mhm. and we're looking at some right now after
these storms that could be dangerous. So we but he's 3/4 of the way through his budget. But you don't have an option if you're going to have a tree that's going to fall >> Mhm.
>> in the middle of the road or something or on uh our grounds. >> Yeah. Better be proactive. >> Yep. Stupid question. Um, tree warden, if if it's if there's a like a snow related
tree problem, could that come out of the snow removal? >> More importantly is to find out if uh there's a declaration from the governor or something, >> state emergency or something.
>> Yeah. Then we can look at >> all sorts of money. But uh these trees are more trees that when you the evaluation's made and you look at them and you take them down and there's
nothing in the middle. >> Yeah. And and they're at major intersections like here. >> A big ass tree, too. Good. >> Uh, I did an accounting that Kelly put
in gave us for the solar array tax that replenishing the amount of money in it because if you remember, we went all the way down to zero at town meeting and that was to pay for
the school roof. >> Mhm. or paid partial for the school roof. And so it's starting to come back and that's great. And the sooner we get more of the arrays online,
the larger this account will be. This is a 2013 I believe special legislation that created this account and the tax money from it goes from the
arrays goes directly into the account not the general fund. And something I think is really great is we're going the right direction for uh Gazsby for the OPED.
>> I saw that was actually >> we've gone from uh 18 8 to 168 in liability. And part of that is because the board of selection and the finance committee are
squirreling money away in the Gazsby uh OPE account to take care of future liability of uh health insurance for retirees. >> We're doing better than the state. Well,
we we took, if you remember, after the first year I was here, we took the Gazsby uh oped money away from the state, which uh Brian uh put into the state accounts. It
takes a year to get it out because you were going negative every year when the state was handling the investments. >> Mhm. >> No shocker there. >> Nope.
>> So now we've got the right people handling it and it's going forward. And the last page just shows you the stabilization oped account that we have.
And I encourage everybody at this table to advocate continuing putting free cash into that account so your liability can continue to decrease. Not
only is it good for your bond rating, it's common sense to get that to happen so you don't try to pay for it as a pay as you go. >> Mhm. >> Which
uh it's foolhard. Uh that's as far as the short the short program. Now uh I've included a
memo that's going out to the department. Hence this memo is on the 27 budget. It's going to cause nashing of teeth in the wasteland. >> I don't know why. It's the same thing we've asked for the past couple of
years. >> Well, actually, this is a little different. >> I want level funded budget. >> Yeah. >> Bottom line is one version. That means every all
contractual and mandated costs and everything are eaten within the budget. And then the second one is for level funded with the >> contractual
>> etc. listed individually and you can then see or the selectman can see what which way they want to go. But
>> is this all of our departments Jamie? >> Yes. So this will also include the school department. >> We will send this to the school whether they listen or not. I mean,
so Jamie, if they're going to absorb the contractual increases in that first version of that budget, then they're going to have to take away from somewhere else >> other expenses in that budget. Yeah, >> that's the only way they're going to be able to do that to get to that bottom
line budget >> or not fill positions or uh eliminate positions. >> Didn't we do that last year? >> Well, and here's my question because last year all the positions that were
eliminated to make their budget cuts were added back in during town meeting. To my understanding, none of those teachers returned. And a number of those >> You're saying in education, not not the town side. >> Yeah. No, I'm talking the education one
because they fought to get all the money back and we ended up paying for a good chunk out of it out of our own reserve funds while replenishing their reserve funds as well last year. So my fear is that they're going to come back and say,
"Well, this was in our budget last year. We should be able to have the money this year, even though they may have had eight or 10 positions that were open. for the year. >> Well, that that would be between you and the board of selectment as far as and
the school committee as far as cutting. >> I have a silly question just for clarification. Um the additional money that they got at town meeting from free cash, what was it 155,000 I think it was? Is that their basis for this year's budget?
>> Does it become their basis? Uh that is I'm sure an argument they would be making. >> Okay. But not necessarily >> not necessarily. I I view it as uh a
>> I guess it's in the but it's in their numbers. So it will be in their numbers. >> So why isn't it part of their base? >> Well, I imagine they'll include it. >> I get I'm just thinking about it like >> they if it's in there, right? Like I think we got we got to assume it's the starting point is it's going to be in
there because >> I I think the argument that we can make though is that that was for two positions that they didn't fill. >> So they never used that money to replace those two teachers or to save those two teachers, which was what the parents wanted to do essentially. Right. >> I think we can uh I know we're going to
have some joint hearings with our school and our board of selectmen. I think we're going to do this multiple times um so we don't run into the situation that we ran into last year in the annual town meeting where you know they're having a resident go on to the
town floor and do what they did um cuz I don't want to see that again. And um so we're going to have we're going to have some disc we can bring all this stuff up. Let's give it all out in the open cuz I I think we all need more transparency amongst
each other. I believe uh to help get through this process um even even better. >> What's the outstanding call list for like the big unions like police, fire, and DPW? Are they under contract or >> uh all but one unit is under contract
and back of the envelope. Uh I >> think police has it too, right? >> Um back of the envelope >> fire has a annual >> Yeah. >> when it's fired. Uh, I looked at the
payroll and I did a 2.75% increase just to get an idea of what the increase would be. That includes the cola steps, etc. >> Oh, for which one? >> Everybody just I took the total payroll and that would uh be half a
>> Yeah. 52,000. >> Yeah. 52,000. Half a million. >> What? on on cola and stuff. >> Yeah, >> school was much higher than that last year. >> So So I guess I'm not I'm just wondering about that 2.7.
>> I That's what I just put so I could get an idea. >> I think school alone last year was $200,000. So I don't you know does anybody remember? Let me see if I got my notes. >> Well, they added steps that >> but that that's going to happen, right?
Like >> Yeah. Well, I you don't know what the cumulative effect's going to be because that was the first year of the contract, right? >> I honestly don't remember. >> I think it was
>> Yeah, last year. I think it was the first year in the new contract. >> And that >> So, it's a it's a So, you're saying it's multiple year adjustment? I'm I'm saying they not only gave people raises, they eliminated steps, added
steps, and then allowed people to step. >> You mean allow people to step? >> Well, in other words, you you create a new you would create a new grid. You put people in the grid
and then you allow them to step >> so they get the base the benefit twice. >> I'm not sure they did that cuz I'm not allowed in the room. But if I was doing it, if I was doing if
I was doing it from their point of view, I would take the new contract, determine where everybody's going to be as far as their raises and stuff, and then when they qualify for the further
educational steps, it would be on top of all the raises and everything. So, >> but on the town side, we're looking at 500k just then. No, this is all this is all >> Okay. Okay. >> This is just back of the envelope
starting to show you the the how cold it's going to be. >> So Jamie, what's the thinking of asking for a level funded so no increase on any budget like we know we get an increase in our
revenue. So >> you don't really. show up. >> You have you have an increase in revenue. >> Yeah. >> Your what I've told you every year the budget busters.
>> So you're accounting for that. That's why you're saying >> have eaten that and you're in a serious deficit with after they've eaten the $900,000 increase in revenue. So the ask is
because any sort of increase in revenue is expected to be absorbed by health insurance, right? The insurance is those sorts. Okay. I think that part needs to be communicated because if I was on the other end, you know what I would tell you? Why the heck do I have to give you a level funded budget if I know I'm
going to have revenue increases, right? So it's the revenue increases are being offset by these other items that are outside of our control, which is why we need to keep this in. So, it's all about the messaging for me. I'd look at that >> and we'll get to that in this.
>> Yeah. >> Uh, and as far as the small departments, I've scheduled them all tenidally before you because they're going to have no changes in effect.
>> Just curious. I mean, you got February 18th, which I mean, I'll be around, but that is the school vacation. I noticed you skipped the 11th. >> I Well, I skipped the 11th because the downstairs room is already booked.
Okay. >> And one of they tried to book the rooms for you. There were a couple committees that had public hearings already advertised, so I had to go around that.
>> Can we go to the police? >> Can we go to the police? >> I won't be here. So, >> yeah, you you can go you can if you wanted to schedule these are just tentative, >> right? >> Yeah, this was going to be a moving target. Um, so I try to get everything
done early. So, You could redo the budget. >> So, who's not going to be around February 11th >> afterwards? >> I'm on a cruise. >> Florida. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But if you want to move it around
>> and those are going to be easy budgets anyway. I think most of them as far as mandated costs that other than colas that you might be facing are software costs
on the small ones. Is there a date with the town meeting? >> You mean a starting one that we change three or four times? >> Well, I mean, if we can get that number June already in June. Yeah, I >> thought it was in June. I thought they were planning on June. >> That's why they usually get done in
April. >> It's May or June. The real uh issue we've had in the past is we didn't know the uh final revenue figures. >> Yeah. How's the town staffing situation?
Uh we're we have I'd say 10 to 12 vacancies right now >> or going to be vacancies by March 1. People who are retiring >> going to have the issues with the tax
levy calculating the tax levy again? >> No, we we had we tax bills are out. >> Yeah. Uh, excise bills are out. Uh, finance departments, uh, probably the best, uh, results I've seen since I've
been here. >> Good. >> When I say finance, I mean treasury, collector, and accounting >> and assessing. >> I paid early. You're welcome. >> I hope you voted early, too.
>> Excise. No, >> that's okay. Take it. Take it time. Take it side. >> The excise has been mailed. >> Well, there's no delay. No, it it comes out uh it usually goes to the
uh processor right at the end of January and >> people get it in February. >> Yeah. >> And we we see it in uh
>> after that they could think it's nice >> probably April one is when you get a good number. >> Yeah. Right when we're at last I stay up on it. >> Let's talk about this sheet. >> Okay. >> All right.
And then we'll get to the actual This is my back of the envelope looking at what's going on. Payroll. I just did a snapshot and then looked at
what 2.75% and then includes colas, it includes steps if uh if people qualify for stipens,
education, etc. And that's the increase will be about half a million. Health insurance right now across the board I looked 20%. That's worst case scenario in my view
but I am seeing places that are that high. Uh I we haven't yet seen any increases in participation.
I don't know if we will because the uh effect of what went on in Washington as far as the uh Obamacare, Romney Care, whatever you call that
stuff, price increases. I don't know if it'll make our plan more attractive to people who aren't taking it now and they might jump on. So, but I'm l the 20% and you see also I
did a 15% number, but in the budget buster number I did the 20%. I do not ex we're in negotiations right now with the providers and
more importantly we're in negotiation with the stoploss insurance companies and that's where we'll get our break because if we get a decent number from
the stoploss carrier here that I'm looking at that will bring us down and I'm hoping around the 15% or lower,
but I'm I'm giving you guys worst case scenario to begin with. >> What's the average health health insurance increases over the last say three years? Uh in the beginning it was when I first got here
uh it was I believe 7 8 7 7 6 7 8% went up to 10%. It hasn't been higher than
10% as long as I've been here. uh we had to change providers multiple times to do that as far as people handling HPI but uh or Harvard Pilgrim
but which we didn't change but going through different entities group purchasing etc. So if we were to apply more like the 10% which has been the average we're talking about an increase
of 221 >> even at 15 it'll wipe out the >> right. So that >> exactly where Yeah. But we're at 800 but we're still that still cleans up. >> Yeah. Uh the
I think we'll be very lucky if we get 10%. And I would say you're more likely if you're lucky you're going to be 13 or 14% because that's what I'm seeing everywhere else. And some of the plans
right now are doing double premiums to uh because they uh estimated too low. some of the other municipalities and GIC went to the legislature for an
exorbitant amount of money to stay solvent. Interestingly, I had the opportunity to attend a healthcare forum um with other, you know, leaders throughout the state and Blue Cross was there and they were
talking about these big increases coming up. And one of the things that they blame it on is an increase in services being utilized by consumers uh patients. Um because they're basically saying, you
know, where the population is becoming more and more unhealthy. Um and that's people are utilizing a lot more services. So there's an incentive for people to get people healthier, you know, because
it's it's cost effective. It's there's also a movement to restrict access to script drugs. >> Yes. >> Uh especially the uh >> GOP. Yeah. The Blue Cross Blue Shield's
not going to um I believe they were there and I think they said they weren't going to cover >> Well, yeah. They're not covering it. There's >> a number of things that aren't being covered anymore >> because I mean some of those medications are being abused. you know, they're not being
used for what they were really meant for for, you know, extreme cases. You know, you know, people want to lose 20 pounds. Oh, yeah. Let me get let me get on the GLP1 uh inhibitor. Um and that's not a good thing long term. I mean, I'm going off track here. I'm got my help my
healthcare provider hat on. Um but it's just not it's not a good thing long term to be uh relying on something like that. Well, and the other thing too is we not only do we not know the impact of uh the
Obamacare thing in Washington, we don't know the impact of uh the president administration's movement on drug prices,
uh US prices versus overseas prices. So, there's a lot going to be shaking out in the health insurance area, but I don't think they're going to give us any reduction in price until everything's already shaken out.
>> So, even at 15% with the COLA increases, the insurance increases, and the retirement fund increase, we're already at a negative over expected revenue. >> Yeah. >> Right about Ethan, I think, right? >> Yes. Well, you're at well at 15%. Yeah,
you're close to you. >> Yeah. And uh I think the other insurance comp uh liability 111F and everything, that number is a really good number
cuz I've been dealing with all the providers on that. So, uh, health insurance, I've been told the, uh, people we deal with that they're not
going to know the fog being cleared at all until March one. Uh, the revenue increase where I've labeled it budget increase that's revenue
uh at the end of it this table local receipts are really the only uh thing right now that can go up uh other than local aid, but this local
aid reflects the governor's figures. >> The new budget that she's propos >> Yeah. Well, the real problem we had is Yeah. They gave us a bunch of a bunch more money, but our assessments
from the state went up over $100,000. We're just lucky we're not an MBTA community. >> Uh, and local receipts. I think everyone around the table knows
my estimates when I estimate are uh 75% of actual because all you need is one of the big providers like in the permit and fee
area that we count on to all of a sudden hit a snag. whether it's economic or the economy or whatever. And we could lose $100,000 very quickly because those
numbers are very high. >> Mhm. >> Uh >> sorry, Jamie, one more question. If the excise tax bill just went out, do we know how much it was in comparison to what we had?
Uh the well first of all looking at the uh my estimate in 26 is a million4.
>> We've been averaging somewhere around uh a million.75. But that's my a look low just in case if all of a sudden people don't have money and they're not going
to pay the taxes even though we build them or make us wait a year or two to have the registry enforce it. Um, and just to remind everybody that $100,000
for a motor vehicle dedicated to road paving line item, that's also excise tax. And that's that road paving line that goes directly into the DPW budget.
The state gave you a little bit more, but in the past, as you know, it's only been between half a percent and 1% that they increase in local aid year to year. It's a little bit above that, but not a lot.
Especially when you look at the assessments, it's, >> you know, it's a total of 24% I think around there for the last 3 years. >> Total total total local aid. >> Yeah. But it it's about all just a
$100,000 increase after we charge all the assessments. >> Yeah, that's nothing. >> Maybe she can't get in. this back door teller. It should be open.
>> Somebody let me in. All the doors are locked. >> Yeah. We'll let we'll let you in. Hang on. Okay. >> Which door she >> back door? I think the side the side door >> just walked through my office. Phil,
>> I would think she's probably trying to get in the door. I should be Joanne. kind of promptly locked that they shouldn't have. Uh understandings, it's probably good to
keep all the doors locked. >> Mhm. >> The increase in tax levy is typical. you guys have no new growth. And
uh the other is the money that you use to balance the budget by taking money out of the EMS reserve fund, charging some of the enterprise funds offsets and
uh taking the water surplus >> for 60,000. >> Did the Fed make an announcement today on interest rates? Did they >> Did >> they stay the same? >> Yep. >> So they didn't lower.
>> He's now off. >> Where do we stand on the master plan? Is that been worked out? >> That's uh >> it's still >> there. I think they're I think they're probably in the drafting stage.
There was we were supposed to review as a committee a bunch of stuff this month, but they were still waiting for more information to come in. So, it got postponed to the beginning of February, the next meeting, first Thursday.
>> Sorry about that. Blocked you out. >> Hi, Kristen. >> Hi there. I will >> my uh my philosophy and the schedule for you folks is to get it done
because uh I think you're going to be probably doing joint meetings with the board of selectman and the school committee. Uh and that will probably take up your April
>> providing the departments have their budgets ready. >> Well, if the departments don't have the the budgets in other than as far as on the town side, other than the big three and the enterprise,
>> right? uh if they don't have them in the budgets that we we present meaning management will be the budgets that they will have to live with. >> So Jamie the department heads are going to be getting this memorandum
>> tomorrow. >> Okay. >> Or it might have already got out tonight. I don't know if Jamie B sent it out. When you when you send something out like that, do you typically get any feedback uh right away from department
heads? >> I don't. They'll talk to accounting cuz the forms will go out next and the forms are just going to be 25 26
and then columns for the two types of budget. There isn't there isn't that much we can do uh as far as new programs, new
positions. Uh we're examining doing various positions. uh we'll be going into discussion with unions as far as the we do with the
planner position now where to share >> with other communities. >> So, so some of the Jamie some of the vacant positions that you have um like account is that is that funded in here
and is that going to be funded? It is. Okay. Uh the f uh the issue with the accounting accountant position is uh getting through the last couple months
and letting uh the the I don't ethically I don't think it's right for me to try to
interview and hire a new accountant with the board of selectmen. That uh is the most important position in town, even more important than the one I sit in. I believe what I think
whoever sits in my chair should have input in that and probably should uh be involved in the recruiting if they know someone that wants to work with them who's very qualified.
>> So, so then Jamie, what's the game plan? Because if it's the most important position and we haven't even started to look for somebody. >> Oh, we've looked, we've been interviewing We've interviewed a number of people. Uh >> but no decisions been made or
>> it's you're not getting quality >> cuz we don't pay. >> Is that why most of them are already hired? Right. >> Part of it is you you are at the lower
end of the adequate pay scale. you're not below adequate, but you're the lower end. And uh look at the MMA listing. You'll probably see 12 to vacancies
every month. >> You don't have certified accountants, municipally certified accountants, and the numbers you need. just statewide. >> I mean, that type of position would
probably be attract Well, I would assume it would be attractive to somebody who's from this area, you know, from Bristol County, you know, where they don't have to commute very far like they don't have to go into Boston, you know, who wants to do that all the time, right? So,
>> I do it. >> No, you don't do it every day. If if you if you you look at the vacancies, there are town administrators, town managers, town accountants. Uh you're starting to see some DPW
directors/s superintendent. I when I say that, I mean more than five or six. Mhm. you're uh seeing treasurer collectors and remember accountants and treasurer
collectors have to go through a three-year certifi threeyear or sixyear depending on the position certification to get certified from do which is a big push by do
and uh you look especially like you said in southeastern Mass, they're just going from one community to the other to the other >> depending on but and right now you see
people that like Jay McGra that was Middlebar for talent manager he's gone to Haritch and someone said why'd he go to Haritch? Well he went to Haritch cuz he lives on the Cape and he wants to get there before the bridges
still under construction. based on his residency and and there's three or four town administrators in this area that are all trying to do the same thing. >> Mhm. >> And I'm sure there's some people that live up here that work on the cake that
would like to do that. But uh there are I could name half a dozen retired town administrators right now who are doing interim
>> jobs >> filling in because towns can't get the person they want for the full-time town administrator. And accountants are worst.
>> No, accountants are the worst people anyway. >> No, but you >> we suck. >> But you you can't get them. Look at Mansfield. Mansfield came in and stole your town account
and paid paid him over 35% of beyond what he was getting here. >> Mhm. >> That's Yeah, that's a big big difference. Uh Mallerie
just left uh Swansea as town administrator. She's went to Mansfield. I think there advertisement was 200 to 225,000. >> I think that's ours is something like that.
>> Yeah. Yours just left too. Went to Westwood, right? So the people that are in the 495 outlying area are going inside because of the retirements of the inside 4951 128
>> and >> so so what where's the solution then Jamie >> because I don't think the solution is you don't fill the fill the role. Where's the solution? the you're seeing uh a big effort by MMA
uh do DLS is actually doing schools getting people in municipal government and getting people who are department heads or are let's say assistant
accountants to go through these programs >> that's a long-term solution Well, I guess I want to know >> that's two or three years away. >> Well, if the certification is 3 to 6 years, isn't that more a five to six year solution? >> No, this isn't to >> work at an apprentice.
>> This isn't to get them This isn't to get them certified. This is to get them so they can come in and do the accountant job and start to work towards the certification. It's it's kind it's kind of like Harvard
University right now has a program for their new uh students that's remedial math and remedial English because they can't get people to go in
that have high school level math and English. >> I mean the starting point is is municipal accounting is the exact opposite of traditional accounting. Maybe if you made it easier, you'd have a lot more options. >> I I I'd love to see that, >> you know, but uh >> but I I guess I'm just trying to figure
what is the solution for like what is our plan for solving for this for the town, right? We don't have to get into specifics today, but I feel like mandating and we don't come up with >> As I said, your finance departments
are in good shape, probably better shape than a number of them around here. And you guys just have to make sure you keep the people. >> That's right. We're going to maintain continuity, which is something we've been lacking.
>> We've not done a good job >> in some key positions for a while. >> Yeah. Well, those positions you need. you. They're they're the ones that if you once you lose them, you might as well
turn out the lights and take the flag and start to compete against communities that pay higher salaries. I mean, it'll be the same situation that we ran in with police officers. you know, we bring them in, we send them to the academy, we
pay all that and then once they fill their minimum obligations, they leave to go to higher paying departments down administrator or municipal accountants if they have a sixyear training program. They're certified in six years,
>> I'll go up to Boston. Although >> yeah, but you've solved a lot of your public safety issue by looking at the contract, working on the contract. Uh the only thing I think
I worry about with the police officers is how many of them are uh offered state police positions because that seems to be the where the attractive one but there we're we're in better we're we're
attracting people right now from other departments around us. >> Right. I just think we got something wrong. >> I think the department heads though across across the board is is way behind. Even the police chief, I mean the police chief at least with the
interns paid is 30% behind the market even for the county. Um TA whatever that's advertised at what is that? >> They're advertising at 125 to 150. >> Yeah. And then there's advertisements for 80 grand more than 100 grand more.
>> Yeah. But uh that would be for town managers. The you look west of Worcester, you're looking at the same as you're looking here. And traditionally they were
20 to 40,000 cheaper than here. >> Yeah. But that's that's western mass, right? Like we are >> there. They were they were they were in the 90 to 125 range.
You're not going to get those people to come here because once they do three or four years there, if they're young, they're going to go to the Bellinghams or uh the
Plainvilles or places like that that they're getting 180. I think ideally, you know, rather than trying to market uh, you know, a $200,000 certified tax accountant
to our community and try to entice them to move to a Kushnet. I think maybe we should probably focus on trying to get some local grown people that want to be here, that have lived here, that are more willing to stay here once they reach
that certification level. You know, take advantage of their fact that they are a Christian long-term residents or in the surrounding area anyway. You know, >> you don't have a large pool to pick from. >> No. And that's the problem.
>> And that's all the community here. I'm here because you I I was at the end of my end of my career. I was making 164,000 in Milbury,
but I was commuting either up 146 or the Blood and Guts Highway of 495 and then coming in through Worcester. And I was three nights a week, 12 months of the year, I was at meetings
till 9 or 10 at night and driving that road. And I said, I'm going to look for something. Yes, Southeastern Mass pays less, but >> Excellent. It's 25 30 minutes from my house and
it's roads that aren't roads that I'm going to be fighting trailer trucks on. >> Instead of reaching for the stars, I think we need to be a little more levelheaded. >> I mean, do we do we post at Dartmouth? UMass Dartmouth has a great business
program, accounting majors, right? Majority I I shouldn't say the majority, but a lot of kids who graduate from New Bford High, Fay Haven, >> that's great go to UMass Dartmouth. That's that's great to hire if you're hiring an assistant town accountant who
an town accountant can >> oversee them. >> Yeah. Because of the because as you said all of the rules and regulations >> are >> Yeah. And uh we we we've
stolen most of the finance people other than the assessor from other communities around here. And part of it was the fact that they knew each other and they wanted to work together.
Part of it was that they they were sold on were building that part of the town into a cohesive unit. And I think that was also the sales
pitch that was used in the police department. you know, we're paying people as good, but wages and you've got some other opportunities in the uh to make extra money and you
can come here and you can do it. And that caused us to get some people that were lateral transfers. It's and it's not just here. It's I know there some of the smaller communities are talking about and when you look at
it is sharing the whole management the top tier town administrator. >> Mhm. >> Town accountant assistant accountant. treasure collect >> regionalize them
>> sharing it between two towns. >> Which sounds great, but in effect, you've got two towns that are now becoming one town. >> Mhm. >> I mean, that's going to be a hell of a lot of work for one individual. >> I could think so.
>> I mean, >> but they're small size of town. >> Yeah. They're they're the five, six, 7,000. >> Yeah. >> But When you look at it, when you look at it and all of a sudden the
management tier of the town is halftime here and halftime and the next town over, do you really have two towns or do you have one town? Especially in some of the areas that it's a regional school
district. Now, budget busters. >> Now for the bad news. >> I have We have no idea. But the trash hauling contracts up. >> So that how much that goes up. I have no
idea. I have no idea as far as the facility use if that's going up because the last time you went out to bid was 5 years ago for the hauling and 10 years ago for the facility.
Then you have old colony and that's I know Aaron doesn't like me to call it but it is a budget buster every year. And then you've got water and sewer rates that you've got to look at.
And that's on top of all the things we know. >> Yep. I know some of the very small towns around us right now are talking 5 to 800,000 deficit as they start the budget
process. So, it's not just here. And I don't know how a lot of these towns are going to continue spending
what they're spending looking at the revenue coming in. So if you want to keep spending the way you're spending, you've got to adjust your revenue. And I know that's something >> overright.
>> What about Nobody's going to want to hear this, but this a lot of we're in the minority of towns for sure that don't have any type of trash fee. >> That's up to the board to select, >> right? But has that even been
>> I know that there years ago there was a discussion on the predecessor where they were talking about um >> yeah I heard they were going to uh put a ride Brian Noble out of
>> you the trash I get it but >> it's tough to take away services but that's what what we have to do in these Don't turn it back. >> I think you're going to see a repeat of last year's town meeting if you try to institute that.
>> Yeah. >> Then then >> they're all going to cut teachers and cut, you know, wherever else. >> Uh, >> you can't have both. >> I'm not looking at teachers. >> I mean, or positions. >> No, I'm not looking at teacher. That's
that field. But I don't think you can eliminate >> any of the big three right now. >> Eliminate or cut? What do you mean >> cut positions in the big three?
>> Um, you're you've got you've got too few positions in DPW. You're at the minimum staffing level in place to cover
what you're going to cover. You're at the minimum staffing level in fire at what you're going to cover. So you the only what you can look at is what we're starting to look at is talking to other towns and saying can we share a health
agent? Can we share a planner? Can we share a con agent or do you have them half time? Can you know that type of thing? And then look at
uh your administrative staff and see if there's a better better way to staff offices where you might end up with
two administrative people staffing three offices instead of three. >> I mean is personnel our biggest cost in this town? about $18 million out of it's about half the budget $37
million budget >> but but that includes school >> what is school percentage out of our 18 >> uh I don't know that exactly because uh as far as dollars go >> just rough percentage
>> but but as far as noses go 60% >> of the total budget I think we, you know, we've talked about this for years that, >> you know, it's not sustainable, right? I mean, we keep saying it for years because the
>> the rate of the of the the fixed cost increases is outpacing what we get in local aid. >> I mean, local aid is not keeping pace. It's lo local aid is the biggest
uh liability as far as budgeting goes because they act like they're doing so much for you but half a percent to a percent a year
they're not even they haven't been crazy. This is why >> and and and chapter 90 money is the same. What is it 14 years? They haven't really done anything. >> Look at look at this. I mean, you get
the the chapter 70 uh local aid the governor's local aid proposal. Um >> it's it's not even upund $100,000 yet >> actually. Uh
the I'm just looking at chapter 70. and chapter 70 is up about let's say 200 grand and
general local aid is up a spit in a cup. But of the two 85. >> Yeah. Chapter 70 is up 85 at the bottom. >> Oh, you're looking at the bottom. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which is not two more like 17.
>> I think Mike's looking at the chapter. >> I was just looking at the individual chapter 70. Um, >> but with the assessments they take a assessments went up about a 100,000. So you really only local aid increase is
100kish round figures. >> Where's the mass millionaires tax revenue that the town gets? Where's that? >> That goes in >> schools, right? >> It goes into education and highway. So allegedly you'll see it as on if it's on
roads it'll be on top of chapter 90 which as I said hasn't been increased in 14 years other than that. >> So are we is not coming into K K12 for the most part it's all it's all preschool. Are we seeing that as like a
separate college? >> What chapter 90? >> It's prek and probably college, but nothing I haven't seen anything come through to K12 for the >> A lot of it is pre community college.
>> Right. Right. We're not seeing it with our >> We don't know. I mean, what what's the number? >> What >> the millionaire's tax, you know, what are we actually getting? You know, as she said, a lot of it is free school
and then you're it's eaten up with the free community college, >> right? But I think Mike was asking if what what are we in a Kushnet getting? Do we know if we're getting any through chapter chapter 90 or anything like that? >> Chapter 7. Well, 90 98 it goes up a
little bit, but you won't know now. But you've got to spend that on roads. >> It just I guess it I'm just curious just being the tax accountant that I am. You know, the big push was for school and
roads. That's the whole reason everyone not in a cushion it. We did vote it down, but that's why so many people voted for. So is it really going? >> Yeah, it's going >> where they push for it city. It's going to worry
the gas tax originally supposed to go through for the roads and now we find out goes everywhere else. So >> it's not it's a magic word gateway. >> Yeah, exactly. You're not going to see it in this town. >> This is if there was a state >> but our res. So you know
>> a department of fraud and waste. Well, Minnesota definitely needs it. I I I think if if we were to like open up Pandora's box audit, >> right? >> I know. Yeah. >> Just to see like where is all the
wasteful spending, you know, and you know, there's billions of dollars that are just wasted >> that could be helping our local communities. And >> I mean, this is why last year I had our two local reps come in, right? And we grilled the heck out of them.
>> They won't be coming. >> They won't be coming back. No, no, I was actually going to bring that up. >> They were back. They were back for um >> They'll come back. >> I'm going to I'm going to reach out to them because we need them to get back in here. >> The the philosophy. Well, well, I will say this. Your uh
state reps fought like hell >> and got us the million dollars out of the transportation bond issue. So we did we will not have to really go after
uh any money as far as borrowing or the chunk of stabilization to do the Slowen Street project. >> They got us to hear that was what how many years did >> Yeah, >> they got done I guess.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, our reps are relatively new, so >> Yeah. >> But no, this went back. >> This went back to 2014. You were promised. >> Yeah. >> And it was 1.4 then, >> right? >> Yeah, I think it was. I mean, down to
>> No, it it was the bond the share of the bond was could be up to a certain amount. You never get >> that. you're lucky to get 2/3 of it. Okay.
But the state spends an awful lot of money for municipalities through earmarks and specific programs like a program to repair culverts or a program to uh repair uh to take dams out
of streams, stuff like that. The state programs are very specific. They're not local aid, per se. They're not here's a chunk of money to put towards your budget. >> Sure. >> Yeah. It still it's just frustrating
that that millionaire's tax that goes to the schools wasn't proportionally divied up between the towns and it went to the liberal programs that they wanted to fund for it and put it under education
when it it doesn't help the regular taxpayer to begin with. Certainly not equally. >> People vote for things and they don't get them. Well, just look at over the last 50 years who the what where the
leadership of the legislature has come from. >> It is rare. Well, number one, it's totally rare to have someone from Southeastern Mass. >> Yeah, you're not going to do that.
>> But if you do, it's always from a city. It's the definition of insanity, right? Well, they're doing well. >> Feel the same thing over and over again, >> expecting a different result. >> Yeah. So, yeah, keep the same. >> You do get money for certain town
buildings and they're trying to expand that to not only school buildings, but public safety buildings and stuff. And that would help as far as your debt, but it doesn't help as far as your operating budget.
>> No. And more and more is falling on the taxpayers, you know, consumers. I mean, look at utilities, right? That's a whole other thing. >> Well, just look at the desi. They keep wanting the the
individual school districts to pick up more and more of the cost per pupil. >> Mhm. >> True. >> Mhm. >> They want you guys to pay for that and they'll pay for the specialized
programs. >> What's up with OK? >> They need to go with that. That's why we need the state audit, right? Mhm. >> You know, so you can go through >> I can imagine how many of these jobs are out there
and that is you know 100 to 200k a year all these benefits profit. >> I mean how many jobs are out there like that that the taxpayers are funding? That's that's what I'd like to know because you know this conversation we're
having is It's just going to keep continue this way. >> It's been like this for years. >> I was going to say we It's the same conversation we have at the beginning of everybody. >> The the the difference is that there are
towns that look at this conversation and say, "All right, we're going to present a proposal for an override to the voters." and fund the operational budget. >> Yeah.
>> And there are towns like this town that's in my the town I live in and a lot and a lot of other towns that are squeezing pennies to try to uh balance the budget.
>> Well, that's a little helpful to do now, but the pennies been extinct now. So, we're have to figure out another thing >> nickel two nickel two nickels. that never >> unfortunate doubt.
>> No. Yeah. No problem. >> Oh, wait a minute though. That's not one. >> That's true. >> Oh, yeah. >> And it failed, didn't it? >> Yeah. the real issue. We built a lot.
>> You know what? I'm going to ask >> Jamie's back. So, we'll >> dates on the bottom because we're going to get so many versions of >> Oh, yeah. Let me >> this one. This one I want you as soon as you get the next one, destroy it because it it's got so little
>> accurate information or so little little destroy that >> as the uh as of the uh local receipts because you know we've got to wait for excise and everything else to come in
>> and once that starts to roll in you can see But this one I mean I what is it? I got a couple hundred,000 here in local receipts. >> Mhm. >> Yep. Correct size. The good thing is the departments are
pretty much on budget. Other I don't know about the school. I'll say that. But but town departments are pretty much on budget. at half here. >> The only scary thing, Jamie, is
>> snow and ice. >> When they've been told level funding >> and their first meeting they come out and say, "We're not doing level funding. We're doing level service." And every year their level service is about 1 to 1.4 million increase ask. >> Oh, the school.
>> Yeah. >> That's that's what scares me because we haven't been able to afford it the past few years and we certainly have a lot less this year. Well, that's not going to be possible. >> It wasn't possible last year, but they made it work.
>> You can't stop that. You can't start off that high. If if you start if you start to grab money out of stabilization for a shortfall in the operating budget or you grab money like they did out of free cash, it's a real slippery slope
because >> you you if you got a budget problem, you run out of free cash pretty soon because there's less and less. >> What problem? We're probably gonna have
some potential fires to put out, right? And what's stabilization for emergencies? It's not it's not to fund the operational budget. So, everybody's going to have to get that through their you know, >> which leads us down to remind me what
the amount was that the school the budget by last year meeting is. >> They replenish their stabilization fund. How much circuit breaker did they spend? >> Positions that were cut back. >> Yeah,
>> I know there was a a turn back on circuit breaker. >> I heard two different >> I heard one out from one person and one from another >> the towns. >> Okay. I think uh Jamie, did you cover everything you wanted to? >> Yeah. >> You went over all the budget busters,
right? Uh, and Jamie V helped me prepare all of this and she she'll probably be your staff. >> I was going to say she's doing a fantastic job, huh? I mean, I think
she's wearing a lot of different hats, I would imagine. >> Yeah. She even was uh shoveling snow at 6:00 this morning. >> Yeah. I was talking. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Wow. If you lose her, >> I was going to say, don't burn her out.
>> No, but if you lose her, you're crazy because I stole her from another town. She worked with me and uh she's fabulous. >> And if you uh
lose the other two department heads in finance, you're crazy because we stole one from another town and she's really good. and you've got a good assessment >> back to the continuity. You know, we got
to have some continuity in those in those key positions. >> You've got to be able to get your tax bills, figure out your tax bills, get them out, record them, and keep DO off your back because if DOR gets on your back, then they're going to sanction the
hell out of you. Well, you just don't want to do anything that's going to violate DO regulations, right? I mean, >> Mhm. >> Okay. Um, old business. Anybody have any old
business they want to discuss? >> New business. You'll next meeting you'll probably have the uh request for the reserve fund. >> Okay. All right. There are some minutes um
from July 9th. >> We want to update the schedule. >> Do we want to? >> Let me just do the minutes first. >> Yeah. >> Uh Becky Graham. >> Hi. We had um minutes from July 9th,
2025. Uh in attendance was myself, Sue Delgado, Pete Penoy, Kristen Flynn, and Mr. St. Jean. I wasn't that one. I'll make a motion to the minutes. Do >> we have a motion? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I
>> Okay, minutes are accepted. >> All right. Now, back to this the schedule. Um, so we're meet we're going to meet next next week downstairs on the right. >> Yeah.
>> So, we're going to just be doing the all these easy budgets. Um, is anybody coming in from this from the like >> they have the option to? >> Is Kelly from assessors coming in? Um, >> they have the option to, but >> since
it's the short money, you know, as far as the accounts and the fact that they're not really supposed to change. >> Okay. So, we may or may not see any department heads for next week. Uh if you have
questions uh once we see what they're doing, uh we can flip them to the second little department meeting. >> Okay. We're going to reach out. Okay.
I think the big three, the ones we segregated out >> and the enterprise and then the library we segregated out because that revolves around the formula from the
state to keep the certification and down the road a piece there might be some structural things that the library needs. >> I was going to say, didn't their heat stop working the other day? They had to close early. >> Yeah, but we took care of that within budget.
>> Oh, okay. >> I talked to Elizabeth before I came up here. >> Are are you warm yet? >> Okay. So, I think that about covers it, right? We covered everything. >> Motion to second.
>> All in favor? We are German. Heat.