It being 7:00. Do I have a motion to open meeting? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Good evening. This is a meeting of the finance committee, Wednesday, March 18th, 2026. This meeting is being video audio recorded. First order. Let's uh
rise for the pledge of allegiance. >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> We're going to review uh budgets today.
So, first up is library Hello everyone. >> Hello. Good evening. >> Hi. Before we start, I'm just going to hand out a document. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much. I'll make this short and sweet. So, straight off the bat, I just want to say I have no bid requests, no requests for new items, and no capital requests either. What you have in front of you are two FY27 propositions. highlighted
items are contractual. Request A um is ideal in a strong need featuring COLA increases in salaries and request B is a bare bones with no increases except for contractual increases working with outdated contracts.
Now I'll explain the highlighted number which is everyone's favorite the MAR for FY27 and the reason why the library cannot have a levelfunded budget. What is MARA? It is the municipality appropriate appropriating appropriation requirement
that states a municipality must appropriate a figure of at least the average of the three years municipal appropriations to the library for operations increased by 2.5% in order to be certified for state aid to public
libraries. The MAR for FY27 is 39,137. That is our number. What happens if a library does not meet the MAR? It becomes descertified if patrons lose borrowing borrowing privileges from
other network libraries. As a small library, we rely on borrowing and lending from other libraries and the loss would be devastating. Most importantly, we re lose state funding. In FY25, we we were awarded uh $33,476
in state aid. In addition to meeting MAR, public libraries must adhere to minimum standards, which is my responsibility. We must be open to all residents of the Commonwealth, make no change for normal library services, but no charge for uh
for normal library services. uh be open a minimum number of hours per week. Uh have a director with an MLS and a certificate of professional librarianship issued by the Massachusetts Library Board of Commissioners. Uh 16% of our
appropriation must be spent on library materials. uh lend books and other materials to other libraries in the commonwealth and complete state the state aid application in annual report information survey in
the summer. As I do my part, the town must do theirs and allow us to meet above March to remain certified and receive state 8. Any questions? Just real quickly, do you know uh do you have any forecast or estimate what your
state aid for? >> I do not. >> You do not? We do not. >> When do you find out? >> When the budget goes to the governor, the Massachusetts library board of commissioners give us um >> traditionally when is it going up? Is it two does the state aid?
>> It's always gone up. Yes. We've never gone back down. We've always received a higher amount in the previous years. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Sorry, one question. Do do you have a a number on how many residents use the library? >> How many residents? >> Yeah. Or how many people use the library?
>> Um I can get a number of how many library card holders in a question. I could do that. Yes. I don't have that. >> Approximate number. You know, I I know we've asked in the past and it was a pretty significant number. >> It is. Um I think it's it's between 35 and 4,000.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. You're welcome. Do you have summer uh programs set for >> We do. We have right now we're booking uh I'm doing the children's programs booking for that. Our summer concert series is all booked that books early. So we start booking that in fall but we
will have seven weeks of concerts starting July 2nd. So it's the first week of July whenever that date is. And then they'll be continuing. Yes. So and the friends are graciously um funding our children's programs in the summer because those are costly.
I catch you. That's great. Great program. >> Yes. And we're trying to look for new things. So, I'm always open to suggestions. >> No problem. >> I know it's only about a $2,500 difference, but what's the increase in the sale expenses this year? Was there something tied specifically to it or
>> um It's the calculations that you talk about the sales assessment. Uh the sales Yeah. So, it's the calculations that they were using to do the increases. I'm I I I can ask for clarification on it, but from my understanding, it's um a
formula that was really out of whack. So last year, we didn't get any increases, but now we're seeing the increase. But the good news is that in starting in FY28, the calculation would be much simpler to understand. Um so that's why it went up.
Anyone else? >> Perfect. Thank you. Sorry, Jamie. Mr. Kelly, >> there is raises put in that uh can't be put in at this point because the contracts haven't been negotiated.
>> Okay. Okay. Are they in the process of negotiation? >> Yeah, but they we've got contracts that take years to negotiate. >> Okay. So if that's removed from the budget, we might >> then we have to compute the expenses.
>> Okay. >> Well, that's what column B is >> the contractual for the text is going by FY20 the contract that ended last year and the other the director and the patient services supervisor is
>> that contract's up and >> correct. >> So you can't put a raise in at this point. So, we'll probably have to look at expenses. >> Well, the >> to keep it within >> Well, the the bottom line of request B
is above MAR, but that's with no increases in the two positions there. >> Yeah, but uh uh that can't be any increases in the text because they're ask me and that's >> but that's the colas from FY the steps
they're going above. So steps the FY25 >> there can't be any percentage there only can be steps >> but the but the >> they don't have a contract >> but in the email it was to to use the the previous contract so I'm using the
FY25 numbers and that the I don't >> the numbers haven't changed yet >> right but you're you're going up by each step right Liz >> just a step not a cola right >> but but The step is an increase in the rate though.
>> Yeah. But in other words, you didn't add anything to the step. >> So if they're on step two, you bring them to step the rate and that's it. >> Yes. And then whatever rate that is for step three. That's what I did. >> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. So that's request B. So
>> that that is request B. Yes. That is the flatline. Um >> All right. No ideal >> 249629, >> right? >> Yes. >> Right. So, so we're saying that that
$1,600 increase from the 2026 budget is because of a step or individuals moving steps. >> Right. That's what she's saying. She's that's the way she calculated. If they're in step, they still get their step increase each year. >> That that makes perfect sense. So even
at a at a barebones minimum, we're going to meet the MAR. So we don't have a concern there, right? >> And then once the budget is once the contracts are negotiated, then that gets >> What did that sound? >> Yeah, that gets it incorporated. But as long as we're not going to miss the mark
mark, I guess that's the part that's the most important. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Any questions? Kelly. Yeah. Okay. >> Uh, we might have to revisit energy at some point.
>> We might have to revisit energy. Okay. >> I'm not sure it's enough. >> Excuse me. >> Right. Because this is showing a decrease of almost 1%. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, okay.
>> We'll just look at the bills and if we have to >> Yeah. Okay. >> How much has been expended already so far for 26? That might be a good indicator. >> Um $7,700. >> Okay. That's more than half the year. >> Yeah. >> Mhm.
>> Is that through I only I've only seen through December. So, is that January and February? >> The energy bills are there's a lag between uh >> getting them in, I'm sure.
>> Yeah. Getting them in and then booking them. >> So the there's a lag in getting them in. >> Okay. >> And then there's a lag in booking them. >> A three-month lag, two and a half month lag. >> Oh, yeah. At least. >> Okay.
But if 7,700 represents 6 months, >> half year. Yeah. >> Then >> we're close >> times two. >> Yeah. But that's last year's rates. >> Yeah. >> Get started on that one. >> All right. >> Think energy is for energy for
>> energy is all over. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, in other words, that just means there's no issue. We'll meet more and call it. >> Yep. >> Without any issue. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other questions?
>> No. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you so much for coming in. >> Have a good night. >> I told you go 10 minutes. >> Yeah, that ain't happening.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Next, we have our fearless new police chief. >> Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. >> Thank you. Welcome to your first VidCom meeting. >> I feel like I
build I do at the police station later. >> Just keep that in mind if any of us show up in your next. >> Welcome to your first visit. Right. >> Tomorrow we'll be there. >> Um >> he's already taking license plates in the parking lot.
All right. So the first line item is the salary police chief that's um contractual. Um the second line item is for uh salaries of second in command. I believe we have
put that uh a number into the permanent salaries position for that. Okay. >> Um because it doesn't exist. While we're on that subject, I want you all to know that that is probably the biggest need in the police department. I don't know I don't know of any police department our
size in this entire state that doesn't have a second command. >> Mhm. >> Right now, we're struggling the day-to-day operations. It honestly it we're just keeping above water with post with uh trying to look for grants
for trying to get make sure our train meets post standards. um with the day-to-day operations of the department, it I'm relying heavily on union personnel and it's not really their job. Yeah. >> Um and they can't devote the time that's
needed for that. And also in the building, I'm the only one outside of the police union. So I have to talk to a wall or into a mirror to talk to someone else who is not have any interest how things affect the union. Yeah. Um,
so hopefully we can settle this. Right now, we do have an active list for a deputy chief. There's two officers on it that took the chief's exam with me. >> Um, so I hope that we can at some point soon make a decision on that position.
>> How long is that list good for? >> It's good for two years. >> From last year. >> From January. Uh, Febru February. >> Weeks ago. Yeah. Four weeks ago. >> February. >> Weren't we waiting last year for the state to approve it? Did they approve it or what's holding us up is my question I guess.
>> Uh it they approved us uh a requisition in the position and having the exam or the assessment center. >> Okay. >> For the position. So we've gone through
everything we need to with civil service. Uh it's just the appointment by the selectment. Okay, >> I have prepared a document. I don't I have I can make copies for any of you that are interested on what I why I feel
it's important that breaks down a little bit more in detail a few copies. >> I have I can make copies for you. >> Oh, you don't have I have I just >> Every chief before you has made the argument. >> Well, you know, I'm glad you said that because I got on 30 years ago. Yep.
>> And Chief Press two years before I got on appointed wanted to have appointed two lieutenants, but it fell apart between the union got involved and then town meeting and he just dropped it because it was he just dropped it. >> Mhm. >> Chief Al from day one wanted one. Chief
Richmond wanted one. It's it's not >> it's not a want and it hasn't been a want for a long time. >> Um >> and that's what but that's what um Phil said I wish it was here but >> I wish it was here too. Yeah. >> Every time it's come up in front of the committee. >> We've all agreed 100%.
You don't have to sell us on the case. We're 100% behind you on the absolute need. >> Yeah. >> Chief, maybe it would be helpful if you just share kind of the high levels so that way everyone that is listening can understand the importance and how would it it would positively
help the town. continually of leadership. When I'm out of town, um I'm appointing a sergeant who's in part of the union. At least this way, we know right off the bat. There's a clear-cut second command. That person knows what my goals are, what my what we have money to spend, where we
can't, what's tolerated, what's not tolerated. Uh operational efficiency goes along those lines as well. Um emergency response, we'll take an example like um the shooting we had a couple years ago. Chief Richmond, of course, we have an officer at St. Luke's Hospital. he's going to go to St. Luke's
Hospital. Our detectives go to the scene, but we didn't have anybody in a administrative role going to the scene to talk to the other the other chiefs involved that talk with the district attorney to organize a response to relay information. That was just one incident,
but that happens quite a bit. You have a fire, you have a blizzard where maybe I'm out of town or um something of that nature. Yep. >> Um, supervision and accountability. This person would oversee the day-to-day operations of the police department. While it could focus on the future of
the department, what our needs are, be the leazison to the finance comm, be laid on to the board of selectman, be less on to other departments in town, focus on how we need to get money for body cameras, how we need to get money for other things like tasers that are going to be
>> pretty much a need next spring, which is a big expense. Is there grant money out there? It's more of a focusing on the future and how we get there. And it will bring more money in if we have two people working, four sets of eyes rather than just mine looking at one thing. Um,
what happens is when I come in during the day, I plan on doing A, B, and C. I end up doing D, E, F, G, you know, and then I go next day, it's A, B, and C, but it it's just all over the place. Um, administrative workload, it would it would definitely help decrease that. Um
I we'll talk about this later on in uh in the line item, but I have an administrative assistant. Thank God. >> Yeah. >> I mean, she she does wonders, but today's different than what it was 10, 15 years ago. It's it's more responsibility and more accountability
and and we need that. Um, a lot of times I'm asked to go to chief's meetings, Bristol County chiefs meetings, semlet chiefs meetings, uh, southeastern Massachusetts chief meeting, international association of police officers and police chiefs meetings. That means I'm out of town.
When I'm out of town and the select men are someone want me to be there, I can't be in two places at once. So what ends up happening is I don't go to those opportunities and that's where all my training comes from. >> Yeah. That's when I get to talk to other chiefs and get their get their information on what's they're doing, what they're going on, what problems they see coming, what resources are out
there. Um, the post, I mentioned that before, that's constantly changing. The post standards, they certify every police department, every police officer. We have to a certain amount of training every year. We have to report incidents of uh internal affairs problems. They make this, they oversee us. So, if we're
not dotting our eyes and crossing our tees, it's going to create problems. um a partner, having someone to talk to, but that's out of the union. Someone to say, "Hey, is this a good idea, you know, and then say no because of A, B, and C." We we
won't have that. I I'm not kidding you. I have to call other area chiefs and they don't I mean, they're friendly and they're nice guys, but eventually I'm taking from them. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah, that don't make sense. >> Chief, I'm just curious, what's your rank structure like? >> It goes sergeants. So there are no
lieutenants, >> no lieutenants, no captains, no deputy chief, nobody outside the union. >> And how many total officers? >> We are right now we are down I believe are we at 18 or >> oh total I think so >> total 18. >> So we are down two positions. We're
trying currently to get >> lateral transfers >> lateral transfers which I think I'm hoping I'm hoping that this I can convince the select to take at least two um to get us up just because that will get us we were whole that'll get us whole for now but we are going to
be losing an offic at least an officer but pro probably two officers to the state police by June >> and retirement >> and a retirement in December. active active duty guys right now or no? >> We have one on active duty, but you he is at he's on active duty and he's
stationed at the White House. So, I don't see see him coming home >> anytime soon. It's a it's a good job and >> Yeah, that's a good Yeah. So, um he was deployed in November. So, I I don't think we're going to see him next fiscal year. You're going to see later on. I'm
going to have in there um a request to put at least two more in the academy just because the retirements it takes a year year and a half to train fully train and call people list. So >> how how are themmies? Are they far and few between or they
>> they're getting better? Um but they there could be a lag there too. It all depends. I mean it depends. >> I know in the past there has been problems withmies getting getting recruits in themies because there's so few. >> Yeah, it's it's a lot and like just this
lateral transfer has really taken um the bulk of my time in this budget in the last three last month or so because I can't really focus on the other stuff because that's it's so competitive. We have to advertise everywhere. We have to like you know we get someone decent. We
call them right away. We bring them in right away. We we try to, you know, everyone's asking for laterals. New >> two other towns I saw looking for laterals. I think like Dartmouth and New Bedford, too. >> New Bedford's offering $5,000 signing rooms. Rochester. It just took three laterals, one that we wanted. Um it's
just very competitive. >> Um that's just a the highlights of the deputy chief um position back. >> I think continuity of command is is very important. Yeah, like I said, I feel it's long overdue and it's not just me who said
it. I mean, if you see know of any of the old chiefs in just asking these things. Um, let's see. Salary positions that number has gone up and that's reflecting hoping get additional
officers and uh money for the deputy chief in there. >> So, when you say the additional officers, is that the two positions you were just talking about? Yes, that would be for those two positions plus I'm sorry, those two positions. Correct. The dispatchers, the next line that has
gone up as well because we're adding a dispatcher. The reason for adding a dispatcher is we have four dispatchers and we have for the last 3, four years, 5 years, it's not working because if someone gets hurt or someone's out sick,
the other three have to fill in those positions. And what's happening is the overtime, I mean theuh otterins are through the roof and it's starting to affect their family lives because they can't make plans. They actually told me they're afraid to go on vacation because when they return, they don't want to be
three back on the ordering list. Um, that being said, that fifth dispatch will fill two spots that are currently open that we have currently filling with overtime. And so they'll be that fifth dispatcher will fill that spot and then the other two days they work will be on
the day shift to free up the dispatch supervisor so she can concentrate on administrative duties that she has which are plentiful. Um and also by doing that it will keep a lot of shifts because right now the police officers do cover
for the dispatches to prevent orderins. However, every time that happens, you're paying sometimes a police sergeant time and a half to cover a 911 slot >> question. And I don't want to I'm not looking to ruffle feathers with dispatches because we got some really
great dispatchers out there, but like Fair Haven has started with the doing the whole Brook and stuff is >> that's a nightmare. >> Has it been a problem? >> It's been a problem. Every chief, it's been a problem that they don't you're still going to have to have somebody in the building for walk-ins. If someone says they they're being assaulted or you
still have someone answer the phone in the building, it's just >> Yeah. >> And that the people those regional dispatch centers, they don't know your town, your area. >> Yeah. I know Faven's had trouble cuz I'm I'm an active I don't know if you know me very well, but I I listen to Scanner
religiously and yeah, they've had >> they definitely have issues. >> They've had issues. I mean it'd be one thing if it was like we were joining favor Matapo and us joining whatever they need have a regional >> right but I mean Matapo the police dispatch their own they don't have dispatches right
>> so the interest level is really not there for them >> quick question chief >> on dispatch 911 >> y >> the 911 system >> y >> uh whether you you call it for fire or police that all goes through police dispatch >> yes it all goes through police dispatch
>> so there's no way of taking a firefighter and make them >> it's not that easy. It's not that easy because the certifications that dispatchers need are are crazy. I mean it they've made it they've made it so it's point it's it's such a a technical job that you have to do that every day
um to keep that skill set. Uh we have talked about in past but then you also run into union issues because they ask me and then that but it's it's it's a good idea to think out of the box like that. I just don't know if it's a viable thing. >> Okay. Thanks.
>> Chief, do you think that the reduction in overtime will be greater than the cost the uh salary of the dispatcher? >> Do I think it'll be greater? >> So, >> I know you're saying that. >> Yeah. Is the reduction in in overtime
going to be greater than what the cost of the dispatcher is? Because >> greater, but it's definitely going to save you money because we're paying two shifts a week at overtime and now you're not. So, um I I don't And the other thing is also if if the I didn't mention this, I probably should have the two day
shifts that she's working with the supervisor, if the supervisor out sick, we're not going to replace her. >> She we'll just run with that one dispatcher. >> So, would is it going to reduce overtime? Definitely. Will it offset the salary? I would have to dive deep into that. I'm not sure.
>> Sounds like it probably would though, or be pretty darn close if it doesn't. >> I would think so. The other issue is you're right now having so many orderins. It's actually affecting
not uh I would say it's getting to be a health danger. >> So it sounds like a >> I'd be honest with you. I actually originally wanted to do six, but I figured we'd do five right now and see how this works and see if there's a
need. It's It's not The dispatchers aren't um making as much as the police officers. Not even close. So, it's not like adding another dispatcher is going to be crazy, but I figured let's try let's walk first. >> And that's why I think the cost of the dispatcher is going to be less than than
the overtime, right? what we're going to save in overtime >> on a dollar to dollar. But then when you have to add in, you know, there's going to be health insurance, there's going to be vacations. >> Yeah. You know, you're going to have those added cost. You're adding an employee to the town payroll,
>> right? >> I'm not opposed to >> No, I know. I know what you're saying. Yeah. >> It's it's just it's honestly right now it's come to a point that we have to do something because it's just not fair. >> Yeah. I mean, it's not fair to the the dispatchers you have. >> Yeah. I mean, >> or the police officers who enforce them, >> right? Yeah. I mean costwise I mean you
have I think we had last month uh three sergeants covering desk death ships mostly on the midnight shift >> ridiculous. Yeah. >> I mean this right there would help almost all set. >> And to answer the question on regionalization
the chief's right if you've got a couple contiguous towns you can do it. right now some of those bigger uh h groups that have spread out and have
maybe have four or five towns between the member towns. There are towns that were encouraged by the state and took grants, etc. to implement this and
now they're trying to figure out a way to get out of it. Yeah, because I am because I know there was a discussion a long time ago about looking into it or potentially if it's Bay Haven jumped on board, but they also do their own dispatching also when
Hullbrook isn't doing it. And yeah, it's it's it's a nightmare. It's it doesn't work. >> The ones that have worked are three or four towns that are all contiguous. >> Yeah. And the not only do the principal roads but the secondary roads a lot of
them run uh in such a manner that it makes sense as far as someone who might not be familiar with a particular town that's dispatching and knows which way to go. I mean,
>> yeah, there's been times I've actually heard them pull call out like a street name completely wrong, but totally mispronouncing. >> Oh. Uh there was there was anecdotal evidence at >> an MMA meeting where they dispatched
someone and the he ended up on a beach looking at a lake >> trying to figure out how to get to the other side >> the other side >> where the other where the room picks up on the other side of lake.
>> Yep. So it it sounds like this is >> this becomes a safety issue. >> Yes, safety issue. >> Absolutely is. Um the next item is administrative assistant salary. I mentioned her earlier and once again if
you do know any chiefs, former chiefs, I would encourage you to reach out to them. She was underpaid to begin with for what she does for our department. She is the backbone of our department. She does our budgeting, our payroll. Uh she works with the girls of the town hall every every day uh to make sure
things are running smoothly. Um she answers phone calls for me. She sets the schedule. Well, that was last year. Then what happened is last year she was billing out last fiscal year she was billing out $66,000 a year in details. It collected the town was collecting
6600 in administrative fees. Since the police have settled their last contract, those details have gone from 66,000 to this year, we're on pace billing out over a million dollars in details. Yes, I said it right, a million.
>> And of the town is talking about increasing that administrative fee from 10% to 12%. The that the person who allows us to get that administrative fee is her and her workload has just gone up 10fold. >> Yeah. Uh, honestly, I just think it's a
fair we we talk about trying to figure out a way to do this. Uh, if I believe Mr. Kelly, you kind of go into how we kind of broke down that number. >> Mhm. >> Um, but I think I would hate to lose her
because then we're going to the department's going to screech the hole. And I think if we we need to at least keep her somewhat fair. >> That makes sense.
>> Question's okay. Um academy, we did not have anybody in the academy last couple years. >> Um next year, I'd like to see two. We have even after Sergeant Bolino retires, uh should he told me he was planning on
retiring. I only have three years left. Sergeant Ashley only has a few years left. There we always lose people to the state police. It takes a year and a half. We signed on to this what's called the local register program with the civil service which allows us to take
already trained officers that do not appear on a civil service test because there are so many departments leaving civil service. >> Mhm. But that that agreement we have with them means that for every one we hire off that local register within a
5-year period we need to hire one off of the civil service list. So we have we're in the process of hopefully hiring three off that register. This would start the process of catching back up. Okay. Um,
custodians I believe is everything there. Um, town details I believe we stayed the same. Overtime. Overtime is one of those tricky things. I mean,
you've most of you have been on the finance committee for a while. It all depends on the year. If we're up in staffing, I think overtime will be under this number. Um, I think it will be it could be significantly under the number because a lot of officers now would if we are at full staffing and there's a
choice between a detail and an overtime shift. A lot of the officers would prefer to take the overtime and then if it's not replaced if if no one takes the overtime shift, we can work with three guys officers on the road. If we're at bail levels, we're going to have to put
force people on the road. So that creates the overtime goes through the roof. So having that extra staffing allows us not to replace people when they go to inservice, not to replace people on personal days, holidays, we do have to by contract vacation days, but if nobody takes that vacation day, it doesn't get filled. So there's no
overtime. So that's why it it's important that we maintain that fourth level, fourth officer on at least the day shift and the 4 to 12 shift >> and the what shift? Sorry. >> And the 4 to 12 >> and Okay.
Longevity stayed pretty much the same. Um, let's see. Academy expenses, there's none. Clothing allowance. It was, for some reason, I don't know how this happened. There was budget last year for 14 a little bit
over 14,000. Contractually, it's got to be around 28,000 cuz everybody gets $1,000 clothing allowance. And then the dispatches have their own clothing allowance. That's probably right around uh $1,000 by the end, you know, when we figure it out. That's how I was told to budget for that because that's what
usually ends up. Um energy, I mean, stays the same. Building grounds, uh that stayed the same. There was just no you just had the mini
split >> um reserve transfer that went through during that discussion there was talk about I guess there's some other units that may need to be replaced >> that would be an article >> that's going to be an article okay so that wouldn't be end of that okay we if
you want we can talk about the articles um that I foresee >> the immediate and the future >> yeah immediate and the future articles just try to get everyone on the same page >> okay um vehicles. Uh I mean it's hard to judge
where we're at now because a lot of times with the vehicle maintenance stuff a lot the mechanics and people you send the cars to do bulk like every two months, 3 months. So we'll get a flood of bills that I want. So it's hard to see right where we are at this year.
>> You don't have any in-house repair, right? To go out. >> Yeah. because the mass auto spot or Hiller or >> one of those places or something to that nature. We're we are hoping to um with the amount of vehicles we have.
It's just the maintenance to oil changes, things like that. It's it's just >> How many cruisers are there? >> Oh, I knew you going to ask me that. >> Five. >> No, more than that. A lot more than that. Let's see. Uh 22 20 21 22 23 24 five >> Well, let's just put it this way. What's
the oldest one? Uh it's 2014 >> trailer. It's pretty old for a cruiser. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We're looking at very >> car. >> If originally when we hit the financial wall, we took the cruisers out of
>> Yeah. Put >> and put it in capital. This is an effort to go back to where it should be, right? because cruisers are really operational and you're looking at a fiveyear
rotation of two cruisers a year. >> Yeah. >> And that is minimum. >> But to get that back, we've got to phase it back. >> Sure. >> For the record, I like the subdue color better than the black and white.
>> See, I don't. I'm old school. um office equipment is uh pretty much the same software. Okay, this has gone up and I can give you the reasons why on that. Um we were advised last summer that all our
computers were that were operating on Windows 10. >> Mhm. >> We had go to 11. >> We had to go to 11. All we needed to purchase new ones to be in compliance procedures >> to buy 25 new computers at $1,500 each. we just do we couldn't do that. So we
upgraded them at $350 each which kind of blew this budget out. >> Um but it hasn't increased. This budget hasn't increase. This line item hasn't increased in several years and the cost of user agreements with the vendors has
always goes up. >> All our expenses are going up. So what this increase here is in hopes that we can start purchasing like five computers a year to try to like because we these are all from the original building. So trying to upgrade them slowly over a
period of time rather than just come to you that we need $40,000. >> How many machines you got? >> 25. >> It's the same rotation idea. the cruisers. >> What is it?
>> Mr. Cruz is exactly >> telephone stays the same. >> Uh training and testing. Well, the training and testing we haven't used a lot right now because I was saving it. And the reason why I was saving that
money is the possibility if we do hire a deputy chief, I would need to be getting training as being the new chief. the deputy chief would need to be trained and get behind become administrative uh duties.
We'd have to replace him which I would assume they would probably replace the first follow the civil service guidelines and take the first one on the list which would be sergeant fonts which means he's a detective sergeant. So I would have to put someone in that position and he would have to get training. Everything gets cascaded
>> and then we'd have to and then if because we take a sergeant out you'd have to promote a sergeant and just same using the same thing >> potentially the number one on that list is a detective. >> Y >> and then we'd have to train someone to become a detective. So we've been kind of holding back on that. I mean I looks
like we're going to end up sending people to training soon because we've been holding off on training then we and we need to continue with that. Um let's see. >> You also need it for post, right? And we definitely need it for post. Yes. >> Mhm. >> Yes.
Office supplies um gone up a little bit like everything else has gone up. Um uh lock up hardware, other supplies. That is right now. We use that line item to
purchase ammunition to purchase pay for the lockups through the miss the odds and ends of the department. We have not purchased any ammunition yet because as I'm going to tell you later on we are trying to write an article to replace our firearms
um and they are different caliber. So we need to purchase we need to qualify with our old firearms this spring. So we don't want to over buy. So, we've we trying to limit how much we buy >> and then next year we're gonna have to
buy all new ammunition if we get the the new firearms in the article. So, we're going to that money will be spent um this year. It's just a matter of holding off on that. >> Has to be asked what what I'll get to that
>> we definitely will get to that just to this um >> sorry, chief. And why do we need new firearms? I I will go to that. Yeah, I'll get I'll get into that in the articles. >> Okay. >> Should I ask if we can buy the old group of this extra
section after those meeting >> travel? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I figured as much >> tra the training seminar say the same the dues. I mean that's that's the mass chief's dues. That's the dues to the
international association police chief. That's all the dues that we have for the memberships we have. Mhm. And then it comes to the vehicle. Um, this represents a fully equipped >> single cruiser. >> Single cruiser. >> That's one cruiser for sure. >> Yep.
>> And equipment needs. Um, like I said, we have been holding off on that line. I'm going to be I'll be perfectly honest with you. I didn't want to spend not knowing if I was going to be chief. I didn't want to be making decisions and locking in someone if someone else chief. if I won't be blocking him into a
budget we had no money. >> What's uh what falls under their equipment? >> Everything like uh if we need cones, if we need traffic cones, if we need uh ropes, if we need throw ropes, if we need uh >> you had mentioned taser training and all that, that's going to be an article
that'll be Yeah, that that's going to the tases. >> Yeah, that's totally different. >> We're gonna get to that. >> You'll get to Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is just a equipment is is pretty much everything that we need for the cruisers and and and for the building or stuff like that. Um, like for instance,
I just sent we lost officer Sergeant Matten. He used to be our accident recon officer. So, I've sent an off uh Kevin Martins to reconstruction school. Well, to go to the next step, he needs to have the equipment. So, we have the money in the budget here to buy it now, but we
just haven't bought it yet because we were holding off to see if the next chief wanted him to go to the next step. Okay. >> Um, and that's uh about I have for the budget.
Um, as far as articles immediate need, we will be we will be I believe we're going to be getting a grant for vests which is good. We usually we have applied for um >> 5 year shelf life, right?
>> We have a 5year shelf life. Yeah. >> Um, not all the department is requires replacement, but a good portion of us do. >> Um, we called today because we haven't heard if we got the grant cuz if we didn't get the grant, I would had to write an article. They said they should be we should be hearing within 3 to 4
months. So, we sent it in December. They said it should be any time. Uh, so I'm I'm going on the assumption we're going to get a grant like we have in the past. Um, defibs. Our defibs are seven years old
and they are mechanically failing as far as like a battery went dead. The battery is $700 to fix. We are the pads. The pads aren't compatible with all the deep. So, that was like $400 for new pads. It's It's crazy with the the new
technology. If we we were looking to purchase uh defibs that are compatible with the fire department. So if officers are on scene, we can unplug our pads and plug into the defib. >> What a concept. >> I know. I'm just compatibility. >> Could that fall under the ambulance
receipts, rescue receipts to replace defense for the >> for police department? >> It's it's a medical >> Yeah, I understand. But it do would tell us to
pay for it under a especially since it's a reserve account that we're looking at. >> How many do we need, Chief? >> Uh each of the cruises.
>> Well, we don't we don't do a feature of the cruiser because we don't like them staying in the trunks because in the hot and cold it drains the battery. So, we have the officers bring them in. I want to say we have like I think I want to say seven. We have five for the cruisers and we have two inside of our building.
One in lockup, one in the lobby. >> And what's the cost per unit for the compatible ones? >> It's it's got to be altogether probably about $12,000 >> for seven units. >> Yeah, for the seven units. >> Okay. >> Grant money for those or no? Do I think the fire department doesn't remember
where grant was? I I'm not sure what >> safety grant, but that only covers training. I don't I don't know of one for equipment. >> I don't know one either. Um I think from Kevin deputy chief >> I was just thinking the same thing. But
>> I was going to say that but I want thinking the same thing. Maybe he can figure it out. >> If we had deputy chief that would be something we he obviously be looking at grants. I mean it's just >> it's it's it's just a need. Um, >> yep. >> That being said, the next article I'm
going to be submitting is 911 recorder. The state was funding was gave us a 911 recorder was going out of life right now and they will not do it anymore, but we have to have a 911 recorder. What that does is record all radio transmissions, all um for all the towns and our own.
That stuff we need for court. >> Um, and it's kind of it's a mandatory thing and we're going to be out of compliance very shortly. This was I I was talking to uh Mr. Bush earlier, Dr. Bush earlier today and I told him as I was talking to him, I was looking up and
Chris Richmond had a a quote from Marh February of 2024 for the exact same thing and we and now I'm like oh two years later and we still haven't got what's that cost? >> That runs about 15,000. >> It's not bad.
>> Yep. Um, now for firearms. So earlier, how this came about is earlier this year, uh, Officer Matt Melo of our department does our firearms training. We we qualify the range in the spring and in the fall. We do nightfall shoots in the fall. He wrote me an a letter and
he said that we are constantly having malfunctions on the range with our firearms. They are at 8 years old, he says, and they are out of life. Um, as a police chief, when you get a letter like that, it scares the heck out of you. >> Okay. And with that being said, I asked
him what he suggested. He then cited a FBI research into the situation of guns into guns for law enforcement. And they suggest purchasing 9 millimeter handguns because you can get more shots down
range because they have a bigger clip. Y >> and that's more important than the size of the hole you make. >> So I think they also suggested using the red dot site technology >> which that's modern. And he g gave us a
quote and the quote was for purchasing the uh firearms. I want to say there was 25 of them because you want to have a couple extra. >> Mhm. >> Um I I I'm not certain that number. I believe 25 was what he suggested. And he
the quote they gave uh included it was with training and our training. We would be training our firearms in them. Uh we have to purchase hostesses new hostess cuz these hostesses don't fit those. So everyone have to have hosters on top of
it. training, firearms sites, you're looking anywhere between 35 and $40,000. >> What do you currently have 40 cal or >> We currently have 45 Glocks going to 9 millm Glocks. >> So likely these would be less expensive
than replacing the 40s to begin with. >> The ammo's cheaper, too. >> The ammo's cheaper. Much cheaper. >> Well, I mean, if we got new 40s for the 40s they already have, it would be more expensive. >> Yeah, it would be more expensive than that. >> Yes, it would be more expensive. But like I said, it's we're trying to, you know, we're trying to follow what the
best course of action is. And it seems like New Beth, I believe, just went to 9 mill. I think the state police going back 9 mills. >> That that's just seems to be the way. >> Well, even the the MR technology now is has gotten really good now >> cuz that was the old school way of thinking. The bigger the caliber, the
better, you know, more stopping power. >> Yeah. >> And now nine, the what they're using in nines now is starting to get up there to something, >> right? Um, one the one thing you were talking about was the mini splits earlier. Um, >> we were having a problem with a the
dispatch area and >> it was flux during the winter it's freezing and during summer so hot. The dispatch area is what cools off like our computers and dispatch. >> Yeah. No. >> And we got a price to have it fixed and I want to say it was like $7,000 >> just for the coil unit.
>> Oh yeah. >> To fix it and to replace the whole thing >> was like 15. >> Mhm. Um, but that was to replace all of the units, correct? Both units on the roof, right? >> Uh, I think that's just the one the dispatch. Yeah. The whole thing, though. >> Okay.
>> Like everything. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, there was no guarantee if they fixed the coil unit >> that it wouldn't be broken. And >> Right. >> Plus, the new one will be more energy efficient. >> Doesn't it have a warranty? >> It would have a warranty. >> I don't have a warranty.
>> Yeah. >> Look at >> We did get two quotes. We're waiting on one more. >> So, >> do they all come with a comparable warranty or >> do we look so they I'd have to double check once I
get the third one then I'll double check and I'll let you guys know >> one more review. >> We can't let this one go by. >> Probably need four more. >> Yeah. Then we'll have the whole building evaluated. >> Not out of malice.
So, >> did did we ever find out if that mini split that we have in stock is compatible? >> So, that mini split is for a wall. These are duckless. They come through the dock. So, they're all from the ceiling from the wall. >> Totally. Yeah. >> So, the answer is no, Eric.
>> Can't do it. Sorry. >> On the wall and just make sure that followup to your question just won't help you. >> He just didn't want to say it. >> Sorry, Chief. You haven't been here for all the other meetings where there >> so with
>> we finally have a conclusion. >> There's there's another four. So we're looking at 60, right? >> Is it fourth? Yeah. Have to stay. So once we get this one replaced, then we'll have the rest all re-evaluated. Make sure that in case we have to do
them all at some point. Kind of like the COA, you know, we have to do all those. >> So we have five total on the police station. I believe so. >> Yeah. >> So that could be an article for upwards of 60. When we say articles, we're
looking at very few articles in the spring and a lot of articles in the uh uh fall. >> Presenting all this to you will help Adam Lamontain hit the ground running.
Okay. >> Cuz you will have already been hit with it once and then when he comes in like you're the tenderizer. >> Makes it a little easier to get through with lately. >> That's the nicest thing that's been said
to me lately. >> Yeah. Um, that being said, I mean, this is not something that could wait till the fall, obviously, because we have $100,000 worth of equipment in that dispatch area, and if it's too hot in there, >> we have some problems. So, this is
something that needs to be done ASAP. >> Um, >> looking forward, our TASES are expiring. the contract on tases are expiring and that means we need to set
up another uh but once it expires we no longer have insurance for the tases because the company that gives us t we get the tasers from give it to us uh provides the insurance >> insurance that they function properly >> insurance that function properly
insurance if something if they break they fix them the maintenance agreement they do all that stuff um because after 5 years their parts are no longer are guaranteed. >> Mhm. >> Um, >> are they discharged often? >> Well, you have to test them every shift. >> Every shift.
>> Yeah. They're not It's not so much a discharge, it's electronics inside of the TA. >> So, you have to you have to, you know, change the batteries. You have to test them every shift. So, um, there's some there's wear and tear on those. Um, >> and I assume that also affects the liability.
>> Correct. Correct. And >> the payment need to be up to date. >> I want to say that number. Yeah, they just they can just do the program >> to to replace them all is the quote I got from one vendor. Now, I don't know if we I think they're a state the bid,
so I don't know if we would have to bid that out, but the quote I got was I want to say 20 $120,000. $125,000 >> for how many units? >> Five. Well, it's for all. So, every officer has one uh and we have a couple extra. So, the same thing about 25.
>> Yeah. And that would but that doesn't have to be like there's options. You can pay it all at once if you want. You can separate that over a 5year period. It's there there are flexibility on that. Um he says it all depends on your preference of the town. Last time I
believe we just paid it all at once, but sometimes you you could pay more like this year and less next year or more next year, less this year as long as it's paid during a 5year period. >> And and when are you looking to have these? It won't it won't be they the contract expires a year from June uh
July uh 1st >> 2. >> So sometime within the next year >> well a year and decide >> year and something. Yes. So it's something I'm going to probably be bringing in the fall town meeting. >> Is there a lag between saying yes to it and the time it could be fulfilled? Like
I know we have a wait for cruisers. Is there a wait taser program? I asked that question and they thought they could have the tasers because we have to be trained on definitely all trained because they're brand new tasers with different capabilities. Right now these tasers only fire uh two uh probes. The
new tabs tasers fire don't doesn't have a drive stun which put it against you press a button. It fires 10 rounds. >> So you know there's different so it requires more training. Yeah. >> Um so there's that component. Um, and I forgot what I was gonna say, but
they they're they said if they if we get them in the fall, we should be able to get them by January, early January, then on program. >> So, but yeah, but so it's it's not like we can wait till the spring, >> right? >> Yep. >> You know what I mean? So, that's it would be a few months lag on the other
one. But, um, >> okay. >> That's a that's a major one I see coming. future things that you should probably have on your radar, whether it's going to be through me or someone else, another chief. Uh, body cameras is
it's a must nowadays. >> Mhm. >> Uh, juries are actually looking at our office skepticism that we don't have them. Uh, I can tell you that shooting in Beaven, if it was not on film, would not have gone as smoothly as it did. Uh
you it's very rare that the district attorney says that night that it was justifiable shoot. Uh otherwise it could be months up to a year >> for I think it was over almost a year that they actually had the finding for that. In the meantime, you would have
officers out, in this case, possibly three officers out on administrative leave for a period of time, unless that's But the body cameras are a huge expense because you're not just paying for the equipment, you're paying for the the cloud, the storage. >> Mhm.
>> You and if and I tell you right now, we can't devote the resources to properly do that. So, you'd probably have to have that company do it for you. >> Oh, yeah. There are grants out there, but the grants sometimes put more restrictions than it's worth getting. >> Yeah.
>> So, it's something that needs to be researched and like dived into, but that I >> deput. Yeah. >> So, we don't have body cameras right now. >> No. >> No. >> And what's what's what do you think the
cost is, to you? >> Yeah. >> Ballpark >> for 20 quarter of a million. Yeah. >> Is that for just the cameras or is that for the cameras? >> Cambridge and storage. >> Okay. >> How it was explained to me. You can pay anywhere from $120,000
to $2 million. >> It all depends what you have probably based on capacity, that kind of thing. >> On what you want, what you know, like Faven has body cameras and they have cruising dash cameras. So, it depends. You want that, they you can do that. You can do anything. You can tailor it to
yourself. >> Mhm. But it's the technology is just not cheap. >> So the dash cameras. Sorry. >> Oh, no. No. >> Do we have dash cameras? >> I don't want to be either. Okay. So the so the camera footage that you were talking about that from Faven shooting was
simply because Faven has them. Otherwise, >> I believe and man poison, but I believe it was Faven's cameras that picked it all up. >> Okay. Otherwise, we could have been up Yes. >> a creek without a paddle. >> Yes. And you know what? And honestly, it's not just the officers being out. the officers are being out possibly facing murder charges.
>> Yeah. Well, that's the >> you know what I'm saying. So that way whether that's justified or not, that's still on their mind for a period of a year. >> Absolutely. >> You know, giving crazy things. >> Clearly, I don't interact with the police department very much cuz I didn't know my body came. It's not like I get pulled over on regular. They ask me a lot of questions. Sorry. >> No, one shooting could have been three
officers paid for a year. there shifts having to be covered probably a lot of overtime or bringing others in >> just to maintain services would have been a huge expense alone >> and and yeah and and the mental impact on the police officer I can't I can't overstate that >> when you involved in a shooting it's not
like the TV you got shot it's hard for officers to even come back >> you can get shot in the pinky it doesn't matter >> you know it's a mental mental stress that you could >> absolutely >> so I have to ask the question why isn't this Why why isn't this something that we do?
I wouldn't say April because right it's it's the hard time but why isn't this part of fall time meeting? >> Well, there's a a number of issues that are in the last couple of years have resolved
uh with body cams for a while. There was a >> the unions didn't want them. >> The unions were fighting tooth and nail having them. Now there's recognition that it's uh protection for the uh
officers the liability protection for the town >> they're more accepted right like the that it's gotten to the that point now but it took a while >> totally but still why is >> I remember going back it was a fight
>> which I totally understand so I but still why wouldn't we why isn't this a priority for I I'm not saying well first of all I like you just mentioned unions I believe you have to open the contract got okay >> okay so that would be number one I number two is the time
>> I mean the time it takes to do the research you don't want to get the wrong system the money the I >> Mhm I don't even know where to begin like without having help >> deputy chief >> yep >> okay
>> I don't think I have anything else to scare you with the anything. >> I don't think you're scared, Chief. Just realistic. >> Chief, just curious. Um, are you are you the most senior person within the department? I'm just trying to wonder the gap of seniority that we
are looking at. >> Sure. >> Um, I have myself, let's see, Sergeant Bolino has one more year full-time service of me, then it's myself. So, he's at 31 years. I'm at 30 years.
Sergeant Ashley's at 30 years and then from there there's a a drop to like guys right around 20 >> and then there is >> and then there's only a handful maybe four or five around 20 and then the vast
majority is under 10. >> So there is going to be a gap. >> There's going to be a gap which is right which is >> trying to get as many people up to speed in the next three years is going to be a priority. Um, >> I can see that an issue down the road.
>> Yeah, it's it's once again I'm going to say this again. The deputy chief has been kicked down the road too long and we're in a position now that if we don't and I leave you and there's no to say that we have somebody that some of the our sergeants wouldn't go to another department and take a supervisory
position there because they our sergeants are very well respected. >> Mhm. >> And it's it's it's a blood blood bath out there. They want candidates because there's not a lot of people want to be police offic it's it's a tough job. I mean I give you guys credit your whole department. God
bless you all. But I know it's tough to hire new people. It's expensive to the town. We see it every year. We hear about it every year in this committee. So I wish there was an easy answer. It it's like all of the other recruitment issues
there for positions that you need experience and credentials for. There are not a lot of people out there. So, municipalities are poaching
other municipalities for people in leadership positions. And that's for police, fire. >> Sure. >> Uh DPW as well as uh inspections, >> everything. Yeah. Chief, uh how long
does that state has a certification for an officer, right? Like you uh they >> every three years. Every 3 years we do we do I just went through my certification process. So every >> What's involved in that? >> Uh we have to download all our training to post. We have to um they post a
background check. They have to have I would have to sign off on that those people the officers I'm sending. >> So if there's complaints against you that that's that becomes part of the record >> that becomes part of post records. Yes. If there's internal fears I mean internal fears is one thing that if there's something serious we have to
report that to post within two days. So it's like you get internal fears everything drops. Everything you're doing stops. U same thing like with uh union grievances. union grievances come in I have to stop everything I do because there's a timetable that I must cancel that grievance. So there's a you
know that's what I'm getting at is yes in the past there you want a chief's been able to handle everything but those days are long gone. It's >> out of control. >> Yeah it's just it's I mean um >> internal affairs is like state police. >> No that'd be us. That'd be me. How's that? That' be me because I you can't
have someone inside the union investigate another officer inside the union. Right. and then or if it's big enough or if there's something that's possibly criminal charges, I've been advised by other chiefs to have an outside agency do the investigation and that causes problems of his own and it's
costly, you know. Um, the one thing I will say though, and honestly, my 30 years of being a police officer in this town, we have the best police officers and dispatches anywhere.
Anywhere. They honestly they honestly work hard, but they they're good people. Um, and they because of that it has made my job a lot easier. You know, I've been a provisional chief now for over six well was a provisional chief for over 6 months. I couldn't have got through it
without them going above and beyond, but it's unfair to think that they're going to keep doing that. >> Sure. Mhm. >> Chief, quick question, and this is not budget related, I guess, but um I know you've been involved with the LTC process and everything else, and there
was a big reduction in the amount of available hours for an officer that handled that. Are we still at those same reductions? >> That was me. I was the one who was who was unavailable. And that was because we had deployed two off three officers and lost two officers of state police within
a month. >> So we lost five. So we had a period of a year and a half where we were getting forced into work probably every one of us one time every other week. And now to put that in perspective I went 20 years with maybe being audited in 10 times.
And now we were getting audited every other week. That's why the staffing levels I'm so adamant we need to increase cuz we can't go through that. The morale was terrible. It was affecting people's home lives. People didn't want to come to work. They hated being there. Um, and the atmosphere was just terrible. We can't we can't do that
again. It's just not fair. >> I know my my recent renewal. I just renewed and I think it was 3 weeks from the application. >> Pretty caught up. >> I think when we were talking when my wife and my daughter went in for theirs, >> you were talking about you've gone from
something like 30 hours or 40 hours a month. It was down to like one shift. >> One shift. It was one shift a week. And I could not do new occupants. >> I could only hand over renewals. >> Yeah. >> Because it just it just down to time cuz I mean I don't know if um you realize how many LTC's in this community, but
it's a ton. >> Oh, >> it's a ton. And >> so it it's, you know, the thing is the vast majority are good people. So it's not like the background checks are, you know, a problem, but all it takes is one background check to go a little bit sideways and then you find yourself in
court and this and that. So now you back up even further. So it's very important to have a person in that position who can self-supervise and right now we have Sergeant Ashley in that position. He does a tremendous job. >> Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> I actually I got one that's also not related. Um the gun rangers going to be
changing the righties. I got to give you I got to give you the plan. >> We'll we'll talk after. All right, that sounds like a plan. >> Awesome. >> Anything else? >> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you. Thank you for having me. By the way, if you have any questions or any point want to just call me or stop in, please do.
>> I'd rather have you tomorrow night. >> What's happening tomorrow night? >> If you have questions, I'd rather just get it from me than rely on, you know, just a friend of whatever so I can get you the right information. >> Thanks, Chief. >> Thank you.
See, it wasn't so bad. >> I thought you wanted to be done in 10 minutes. >> I wanted to be done in 10 minutes. Well, >> I was prepared for Saturday. >> I I was wondering what kind of games you're going to play with me. So, >> never play games. She just asked a lot of questions.
>> Looks like you just had a colonoscopy. Wow. All right. >> Jeez, poor guy. Come on. >> Oh, okay. Uh, that's it for budgets. Any old business? >> Nope. >> No.
>> Any new business? >> Nope. >> Nope. >> No minutes to review. >> This is easy. No minutes to review. Next meeting is tomorrow, March 19th, apparently at the police department cuz I will not be there. I didn't realize that. >> All right, that's the end. Do I have >> motion to adjurnn? Second.
>> All in favor? We are done. Thank you.