Okay, good evening everyone. This is a meeting of the finance committee. It is Wednesday, November 12th, 2025. [clears throat] >> Um, do I have a motion to open? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> All right, we are open. Uh, on tonight's
agenda, uh, we're going to just have a general discussion on the old Colony school building project. And that's pretty much it. I mean, we've had a lot of discussions on this. We just had a public hearing, the last public hearing that we've had in town this past Monday at the Council on
Aging. Um there was some good healthy discussion and that's how it should be and because our residents need to be fully informed um how this is going to impact them not just with the headline of the debt exclusion which is [snorts]
you know the the extra tax that you're going to pay on your property taxes but how it's going to affect our overall town budget. Um so we're going to get into a little bit of that tonight. Before we get into those things, what I'd like to just provide some clarity on um was some information that was brought
to my attention today regarding uh the ballot. And in our town, we're only going to have um one question on our ballot for all the residents out there. The question is going to basically uh be to just authorize Old Colony to go into
construction. Um, we're not going to have the debt exclusion on our ballot this time around. If if the uh if the b if the ballot question passes on Monday here um or overall everywhere, then we'll go on to
the next phase where we'll have the debt exclusion ballot question, which would be probably in the spring if I had to guess, maybe just before [snorts] annual town meeting. Um, so just so our residents know, there's only going to be one question on the ballot and that is
just to authorize O Colony to go into construction. It has nothing to do with how it's going to impact your taxes. That's later on. So if you're if if you're going to authorize it [cough] [clears throat] and it passes, then we will be faced with the next ballot question in the spring uh [snorts] or
sometime around there. Um, and that's when the tax implications will uh will be discussed and be laid out a little bit more specifically. Um, the other thing I wanted to bring up was the fact so if the if the ballot
question fails, does Colony immediately have to go to their plan B and go into repair and renovation phase? No, they don't have to do that right off the bat. um that would be they would have to put
that as a as a new ballot question after going [clears throat] forward. So, you're not going to go right into that that phase right off the bat. Um if they need to make repairs, they'll have to do repairs uh as they come along if if this
doesn't pass on November 18th. Um I hope that clarifies everything for everyone out there. There is um a post out on social media that our selectman Bob Hinckley had put together to provide clarity on that. Um so if
anybody wants to to see that in writing, Bob put it out there on all things of cushioning. So you can check it out. Um and we're we're also going to have a anformational piece as well on our page,
I believe. Is that right, Eric? Is that going to be on our page? >> Uh the town uh website, the town Facebook page is they're going to have an informal uhformational uh post similar to what Lakeville provided for their residents. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So there'll be there'll be more
information um relative to you know the the tax implications, the tax impact. Um so what I'd like to go into now is just uh around the table. Um, why don't we go
from my right all the way around and then I'll I'll finish up at the end with what I have to say. So, Sue, you ready to you ready to have a discuss or do you want to go the other way? >> I think we go the other way. >> All right, Pete. All right. All right, Pete, you >> I'll be honest. Um,
I usually have a problem with the school systems and their spending, as a lot of you know. Um, I will say upfront that Old Colony has been always meticulous with being transparent for us, especially providing line items that
allow us to track every single expenditure. >> Mhm. [clears throat] If we look at their annual increases and what they ask percentage-wise, taking out transportation, um we're we're generally, I'm sorry, not
transportation, taking out their um >> insurance >> insurance because they selfund their own. It doesn't go through the town. >> Their increases are generally between two and three and a half%. which is over the last few years only about 30%
of what our own school system increases are. So I'm one of those residents where any tax increase is going to hurt me. So initially my opinion going into this was they really have to justify the need for
it and the fiscal responsibility that they're going into the program with or the project with. When we sat down and looked at all the numbers, and I hope the residents have had a chance to review their presentations, we're looking at roughly $288 million to
construct and close to 50% of that would be covered by a state grant. We're also looking at another $1 million in uh energy efficiency grants that are
expected to come in, but weren't put in those final numbers. In essence, it comes down to roughly about half of that project, 145 million or so, would come out of grant money and roughly about 150 of it
would come out of uh our overall all the town. We look at their expected expenditures on a conservative side for repairs. That is almost the exact same amount of what the towns the the member towns
cost would be for doing a new school. If we're looking at over that same period of time of putting out roughly the same amount of money and all we can do is go by best guess and estimates on it. I can't say for sure that it would be the same.
[snorts] I would much rather personally think that we got something out of it, which is the state covering half of the costs and a brand new school that's going to be able to be utilized [clears throat] for decades more to come. My concern about
the school proposal not passing and having to go with repairs is that in the long run it ends up costing us more money and we're kicking the can 5 years down the road, 10 years down the road when we start the
process all over again. Who knows what escalating costs are going to be for a new school at that time. and we're now dealing with a lot more of an emergency issue with trying to get a school funded. I think that's what every resident is
going to need to to look at what makes fiscal sense in their heart what it's going to be because realistically in my mind our taxes are going to go up. The debt exclusion is a way for us to prepay school for a
number of years that are out there at the most economical way that I can see. If we have to pay for major costs for major emergency renovations on an existing school, we don't have a
debt exclusion to fall back on. We don't have a 30-year split for the costs that are on it. And we don't have any guarantee that that one expenditure isn't going to wipe out our own town services or put us further in the hole
for taxes with Proposition 2 and a half overrides to try and cover them. So, I know which way I'm leaning, which was not the way I was originally expecting to lean going into this whole process. Um, but with all the information they
put out there, uh, I've got to look at what's most fiscally responsible, not just for my own personal finances, but what's most fiscally fiscally responsible for the town as a whole. I'll yield the floor.
>> Uh, really the only thing I want to address or that my concern as finance committee [snorts] and really as a town resident and taxpayer like we all are. uh looking at the overall cost there are so
many uh unknowns that we have to face in a course specifically within the schools um as I had mentioned school committee is looking you know at contracts for regular high school we don't know where
that's going to go uh we never addressed a permanent fix for the environmental system for environmental mold issues at the middle school and the elementary school, [clears throat] excuse me. So, we have
those issues to address, too. And when we're looking at it, you know, the percentage of students that are going to go to Old Colony and and I I'm a retired blue collar guy from a trade program. I fully support the
trades and we definitely need the trade. I'm just concerned that the debt exclusion that we're going to ask our residents to pay across the board, majority of who probably don't
have children in the school system or at Oak Colony that they're going to be burdened with for 30 years. And then we're going to address, you know, we're going to have to have a Proposition 2 and a half override to
sustain this. And then we also have those other issues that we, you know, the the town overwhelmingly rejected the $4 million U project that was presented by the school committee
>> at last year at town meeting. So for us to say we're looking at a $55 million project that and we don't even know I don't think it was fully or clearly explained the lottery system at the
other meeting that we had on Monday like the benefits that Kushnet's going to have. I know that our tuition will fluctuate depending on the lottery, the number of students that we're going to get in, but when I don't think that there is a benefit that a cushion is
going to receive paying the majority of the t of the $288 million project. So, I mean, I got to look I'm looking at that point of view. So, I have concerns that I I I would feel very
I would feel uh very it would be very difficult for me to look people in the eye and say this is the best choice cuz I think if we if it goes that way, we're going to have a lot of people selling properties and moving out and we don't want to force people out of town. We
want to draw them in. And I will also say I understand new families look at school systems. that is the driving factor to bring families into the town. That was my wife and I one one of the
big things we looked at. So yes, schools are important. Vocational school's important, but I just don't know that this is a good time for a Christian. If there's ever going to be a good time, I don't know that. But with all the
uncertainty that we have ahead, uh I I'm I'm a little concerned that it might be too much for the senior citizens, for the the the widows, the widowers that live in this town. Uh you know, it's
just we don't want to drive anyone out of town. So, I mean, that's my concern. >> Just a point of clarity, though, the our annual cost for the debt exclusion >> Yeah. >> will fluctuate each year based on our enrollment. Mhm. >> Right. >> So that's not >> we specifically asked that point. I
specifically asked that point during the meeting. So it isn't it isn't like we're locked. So just >> it could go I'm just going to add to that. It could go up or down but from but from I believe Sarah gave a predictive number saying that we're
we're probably going to have more kids going there. >> Yeah. [clears throat] Out of the 200 she said about 40. >> Yeah. For 50. She gave she I have the numbers here. >> She gave numbers here at two meetings ago. I took notes. So she said 55
students a year average will be the average and then a predictive number of 106. Um so >> 55 had in each incoming class. >> She said this number based on eighth grade students and the year when they
figured that they would concern about your sunscreen. >> I'm sorry. Do you know how many kids are in the eighth grade class right now? [clears throat] >> I do not. >> My my son's in the seventh and it's the bigger class. It's like 125. >> Yeah. >> So that that might be even more.
>> Well, no, it's going to Well, they I'll talk about this at the end. So, I want to give Mr. St. Jean a chance to speak. >> Do you want Do you want Do you want to say anything, Mr. St. Gene? >> Yes, I do. Uh, I've been doing this for a long time. This is probably one of the
most difficult decisions that >> absolutely >> that we're going to have to make. Uh personally, it's uh I'm really torn on this. >> Uh >> and you don't and you don't have to we're not here to to say which way we're we're going on this. I don't want to do
that. I don't want to put anybody in that position. Just we're we're just here talking about it and getting our views out there. That's it. um trying to give more uh guidance and information to our residents. That's it.
>> But fiscally speaking, just for old colony, uh Pete makes a good point and and you have, you know, you have to look at those numbers and you have to agree with those numbers and uh if we get into the repair situation, uh the cost, I think, will be inflated a
lot more than what they're predicting right now. Uh plus the disruption to the students. I mean, there's so many issues that that uh negative issues that go along with that scenario, but on the other hand, the people in the fixed income in this
community are really up against the wall. Uh I've reached out to a number of people on both sides. So, and uh you have to feel bad for the for the people that especially the elderly people or people on fixed income that uh won't
have a choice uh to make. Mhm. >> Uh so it's it's a tough decision and it's a tough situation, but uh and you know uh I was hoping that at some point in time that state aid would come down
the road, but that doesn't seem to be a possibility at this point. Uh >> oh. Like in addition to what the MSBA is providing, right? Exactly. >> Right. Because they're like 60 and a half%. Um, and I brought this up on Monday cuz I had read that the MSBA will
sometimes pay up to 80% on a project, which is I guess their max. So, it's like if they could, you know, be closer to, you know, 70 that would that would make it even better. But I I still think, you [clears throat] know, if there was a separate fund in our, you
know, for the state put aside for public education for projects like this when schools are in need, we wouldn't be in this situation right now. >> We because they should they should cover it. >> It'd be a fun unfortunately we have a lot of waste in the state and you know that.
>> Absolutely. >> Um and it's a shame. It'd be nice if the president did put money into the vocational systems and >> well maybe that's going to happen down the road but we don't know that. Right. >> Exactly. There's a lot of unknowns. speculative Mr. >> There are a lot of unknowns. That's
that's unfortunate because uh >> you know if you look at the the state aid I mean most of the state aid goes to the the bigger urban schools you know in the urban districts >> and smaller districts like like we have old colony they get the minimum of uh of
state and federal aid. So, you know, hopefully that'll change. Would that change enough, you know, enough in time to uh to impact this uh this project? You know, that's an unknown as well. So, >> I don't know. I at this point, I don't know how it's a tough one. It's a tough
one. >> Yeah. Phil, >> thank you. Um [clears throat] I actually kind of want to go back 25 years to when the town was doing a building project for the schools here. Um, back then I was doing some research. I
remember like the stories I heard, but 80% of that was funded by the MSBA. Um, which would have been nice for us. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Um, that said, I remember and then I from the research I did, my memory was generally right. There was there was uh
basically three propositions for the buildings. The first one was $36 million of new buildings that was rejected. Um the second one was $ 31 million. Still had I believe one new building that was rejected and then we settled on a $28 million option. Um it was basically that
of the MSBA was going to walk away from us. So um [clears throat] you know I think for 20% on you know a 7 million or a $3 million difference we saved like you know very very short money on a on a
20-year bond. And I think we're seeing now with the issues we have at those schools, you know, with the mold and whatnot that probably would have been better building new, especially when we were paying 20 cents on the dollar. Um,
that on top of I mean it's never a good time. I don't think there's building projects where you say, "Oh, this is a great time to spend, you know, to bond whatever hundred plus million dollars." That's never going to be a good time. Um
that said, look at the the police station was um you know bid in 2013 um for 5.7 million. That architect worked on the project in the town I work and from talking with them that would be
close to three times the cost. You'd be looking at 10 to 15 million for that building. So you know if we didn't do that back then we'd be saying you know I wish I did it. you know, I wish the school was built 10 years ago, probably would have been, you know, 150 million or whatever it might be. Um,
so I I it's a very big ask. This town doesn't have an appetite for debt exclusions clearly, even when they're, you know, the numbers, what was it a household for what what the school was going to do like 80 bucks, 70 bucks, >> something like that. >> No appetite for that. And this one's going to be, you know, upwards of what
800 or so. So, um, it's a huge ask and and I think it's a very personal choice. Um, but I I I think it it would be wrong not to do it. And I think 288 million or whatever, what's the number 288?
>> 288 288 now is is, you know, massive, but at at the the rate that public construction is going on, >> we want to have this conversation in 5 years and it's half a billion dollars. >> [clears throat] >> Um, so again, it's a very personal
choice. I I you know, $800 a tax increase in this town is, you know, something I don't think we ever seen anything like it, but um I think it needs to be done. >> You know, the scary thing, Phil, that goes on it is that's with state aid,
>> right? And if we pass on this, the next opportunity to even get approval for state 8 is 5 to seven years. And once we get approved, then it's a whole new feasibility study and everything else. We're at least 10 years out for construction. So when you start
talking about the escalated costs for building public buildings, we just saw between 2020 2013 and now for the police station. and we see the exponential increases over the last five years have been
double what it was the five years prior to that. I mean that's what scares me is 10 years from now what will the cost be? >> I just want to continue going around the room here. So Eric, you're on. >> So I want to definitely say that we
definitely need new school. Um Colonies is definitely an asset to our communities. Um they've done a lot of good things, you know, their shops and stuff like that have done a lot of good things for our local communities all across the board. Um
and kudos to them for doing that. Um I my concern is actually I have two concerns. Number one, um our lack of representation at the table um when it came to the building committee. Now, I know we had our uh chairman uh Dave
Warner uh was on that building committee and we had a couple of resident um members from our community on that board. However, we had no finance committee representation on the board. Um where
other communities did have that representation. um something like that probably should have automatically invited us and as far as I know we never got an invitation. Uh that's number one.
Um number two, my biggest concern w with with these schools is they're getting it's they're getting out of control um finance-wise. I mean money is tight for every person in this country. I mean,
you know, we got SNAP benefit problems. We got all kinds of other issues that it's going on. And it's just it seems like it's just get it's just getting out of control. And these costs of these buildings, like the gentleman said, they're they're not going to get any cheaper. Um, with that in mind, I look
at our own school. Our own school is 10 years younger than this than this building that that they're replacing. God forbid we this passes and then something major happens to our existing buildings. It's like what are we going to do then? If we're going to
struggle to sit there and and deal with that debt exclusion, are we going to sit there and have to do another debt exclusion on top of that to do something with our schools? Um I'm kind of concerned about that. um you know their their operation their
annual operating budget is is going up considerably. It's going to be like would be estimated like a million dollars or close to a million dollars and that's fully staffed with the new shops and new uh teachers and stuff. Um, it this is a tough decision for every
person in this community and I think everybody needs to think long and hard and figure out what's what what they think is best for their wallets cuz that's what it boils down to. I think, you know, I think every resident in this
town, every registered voter needs to get out and, you know, cast their doubt based on what works for them financially. And we as a finance committee need to sit there and take this under, you know, and and make make it a wakeup
call and say, "Look, we're going to have some problems going forward if if this passes because I don't know I don't know how we're going to be able to afford this, you know." So, I mean, I'm I'm torn myself. I like I says, I love what what our colony does and I think it's an
asset to this community and I definitely support that cause, but I I don't know. I I [clears throat] don't know what to say, Lisa. >> Um, so I have a lot of the same concerns that Eric does. Um, obviously if the
debt exclusion passes, that's going to affect taxes immensely. Um but what I [cough] say from [clears throat] our last meeting is you know when SL and Hley asked if we had done any projections and chairman WAR said that
that would just be speculative because you know when they cut the ribbon it's what four years out from our operating budget. So I started to look at all right well what about this June what about this year's operating budget what's that looking like and we have
Eversource has already gone up what 20% on supply last month health insurance is supposed to go up between I think five and 40% depending on your company and I am worried we might have to do a debt exclusion this year when you see
those numbers and to think that, you know, to look at maybe four years from now now we we're coming in with more employees to staff the new school if it passes. I mean, >> that would require two and a half cuz that's operating cost. >> Absolutely.
>> That would even be a debt exclusion. And now you got to elevate your base for the following year. >> That that would be my concern because of course we go into budget season every year and we're looking at what everybody's doing and anybody who can cut and who can do this. We had a town
meeting. You know, two departments were unhappy because they're being forced to share a part-time assistant. And I to think that it could go up even more. I mean, don't get me wrong, I know money follows students and you know, the
money that we were paying for them to go to public school will go toward the Okalony, but of course costs more, right? Because it's vocational. >> But I I don't think >> [cough] >> And Kristen's not here, so I can't ask her. But I I can imagine that the
chapter 70 formula, assuming it increases for 200 additional students, I can't imagine it's going to increase that much. >> It's very doable. She's going over that. >> It's very >> So it will be more on our shoulders and we're already looking at some crazy
increases this year. >> Our total state aid has basically been flatlined for the last four years. But say you got a half a percent instead of the three we normally got. >> Yeah, that's what it was. Half a%. >> Yeah. So, it's it's essentially
flatlined for the last four years cuz I remember I I went over that prior to last to our last annual town meeting. Um because I wanted to be able to point that out to our schools, you know, unless you were >> a certain classification, then you get
10%. So, >> I'm hearing everything everybody says and Mike and I talked last week about this. Like, where do we stand? And it's like, you know, you don't want anyone to have to sell their house. That is the last
thing anyone wants. Um, but I hear everything Pete's saying, which makes from a financial sense, it makes sense. This would be structured and we know when it hits. If we're talking about being able to go back for a new school
is 10 years out, old colony can't wait that long. We will have to do something for that school in order to fix a repair or do we just walk away? I don't think that's an option. >> I don't think we can. >> I don't think we can. We That was the
contract we signed 50 years ago. I I think that so the school and I hear everything you were saying too about our public schools they're not they're 10 years I think Eric you were saying they're 10 years >> but they had a major renovation when >> 2002
>> right so and to your point maybe we should have started from scratch >> totally I think so >> do we make that same mistake again like I hate to tell you I don't want to smack my head up against the wall yet again so I'm trying to balance this like We are
going we're going to have to figure out these financial issues right with the insurance that is a no like we absolutely have to do that whatever happens with old colony we're going to have to figure that out we are up shitz creek without a paddle okay so that we have to do
but the way I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about whole colony do we do it so that we structured within our control or do we do it where we leave it up to the gods to decide and I'm more inclined to, you know, not repeat some mistakes we've made in the
past and and do it so it's structured. We can plan for me. Being able to plan around it makes it a little bit more doable, like you can figure things out. Like if something happens to the school and there's I mean, the way they were
talking about it, they went to go snake a pipe and the pipe kind of imploded and collapsed. >> I don't know anything about that, but that doesn't sound good. Mhm. >> You know what I mean? So that's that's the debate I'm having. Do we do it in
such a way if we're going to be out of pocket nearly the same amount and I think $15 million for a new school. The difference I had it written down. You know, it was something like a $15 million difference to walk away with a new school and not have the worries for
50 years. You know, that's what I'm debating. And >> it's just very hard to I understand the formula, but say you don't have kids, say you just moved in from California, like this is so much easier if you live in Naposa to make this decision
>> cuz you're paying so much less than a fish. >> Yes. I'm >> That's the tough part, too. >> I'm going to finish up. >> Yeah, I was. >> Yeah. No, I'm going to finish up. And that's a very good point, though, because Matapo has the least skin in the game, right? I mean, >> we 70 bucks at house or something,
right? >> Mhm. Yeah, it's it's just >> and I get it. We have more kids, but if you're looking at it as I want to help my, you know, my community in general and and you're not directly affected, it's a lot easier to say yes to 70 than 78.
>> Yeah. I mean, we're we got the line we have the lion share of the cost. It's just the way it is. I think we're number one, Lakeville's number two, Rochester's three, and Carver is four, and Mount Poison is five. Um, and I I think it's probably been simil
like that for a while, I believe. Um, >> in all the years that I was the rep, it was we were always in the 30s. >> So, the numbers just for this year, we're sending 11 more kids to Okal, it's gone from 194 to 205 just for fiscal 27. So, that's 11 more students. uh the cost
to educate a vocational student uh >> it's double than what it is for regular tuition for for one of our eighth graders going for Haven. >> Um so I don't know that's that that [clears throat] that's a factor. Um
so we're going to borrow approximately $50 million over 30 years. So it's a 30-year note. So yeah, debt exclusion is a temporary vehicle to to get funds to get funding, >> but it's not including interest.
>> No, it's not including interest. So with interest, it's going to be $84 million at the end of the third at the end of the 30-year period. >> But 30 years is not very temporary. >> I mean, to me, it's not I mean, that's a long time. >> That's Yeah, I'm 57, so maybe 87, I
might be around. I don't know. Um, God willing. um [clears throat] sit right here. [laughter] >> I saw you the other day. >> Yeah, that's unlikely. But so I So the the debt exclusion is the headliner, right? That's that's the one that's
going to affect everybody with that extra payment that they're going to make on their property taxes depending on your your assessed value of your home. >> For some it's going to be more, for some it'll be less. um you know, can that the big the is
everybody going to be able to afford that? That's an unknown. We don't know that. There's going to be probably some like I think Eric said, both Erics have brought this up. um some elderly people in our community who are on fixed incomes and when they see that, you
know, they could have a nice property. It could be assessed at a high value. They have no mortgage. But then when you see that you're going to pay an extra $1,000 potentially depending on the assessed value of their home uh a year for 30 years
and they only bring in so much money a month on social security um or whatever they have. I mean, everybody's situation is unique, and that's the point I'm trying to make is every everybody has to do what's best for them. Um, the number one question for everybody in this whole
thing is affordability. Is it affordable for for you, for you, for my neighbor down the street? I don't know. I mean, I don't know their I don't know everybody's financial situation. So, everybody has to figure that out on their own. Um yeah, you can go on the
calculator, the OC calculator, figure that out and then you'll know. >> Mhm. >> And that number that number could is going to be a little fluid based on uh number of kids going to going to whole colony every year. So let's say somebody's initial year they're paying
$880 $880 extra, right? Um whole colony sends a few less kids that following year. Well, maybe that$880 is going down 800. Um, and then the flip side of that, it could go up higher. So, and so that's the predictability part is
the number of students that are going to be going there. That's that's an unknown, but we know that from history that we send the most kids there um to Oakley. So, that that's unknown. Um, the likelihood of more kids wanting to go
there. It's a brand new school. I I think it's probably going to become more popular, right? I mean, it it already is more it's already more popular nowadays. >> It's already more popular now because of the trades. Um, >> so I think there's a there's a real challenge in getting into these schools. >> Um,
>> and you know, Mr. Palansky made a good point the other night, you know, going to the he's cuz he wasn't a fan of the lottery system and I'm not either because you're taking the the merit away >> from the kids. So, where's the incentive for the seventh and eighth graders >> to bust their butt in school, get good
grades, make sure they're going to school on time, um showing up, good effort, good conduct. What is that showing them? Right? And but and I get it that, you know, this there's there's pros and cons to the lottery. You might have some kids that
don't do as good with academics, but they're going to be a hands-on kid and then they were going to miss out on an opportunity to go. Um I don't know if there's a good solution to figuring that out, to be honest with you. um because there's there's good arguments on both sides um when it comes to that.
Um but the bigger the bigger headline for me being on the finance committee for as long as I've been 20 years, I've been chair for I think the last five, I see the struggles [clears throat] that we're going through every single year with our operating budget and trying to balance a budget. Look what
happened last year. Um we had we had to ask our schools to cut a decent amount, right? What happens at on town meeting on town floor? They go get some of it back from our stabilization fund.
That can't happen every year cuz if that if that's how we're going to operate going forward, our our stabilization fund is going to generally is going to dwindle down at some point. So, that should not be used uh for operating expenses in my opinion. And yeah, we
could have an emergency with one of our schools right now. [cough] We can tap [clears throat] into that um to tap into stabilization. So right now our annual assessment to Oak Colony is [snorts] between 2 and 3 and a half% like it was already brought up earlier. Um
they had they had predicted I believe it was uh Sarah that we we could realistically expect a six to 6 and a half% increase on our annual assessment. So last year our annual assessment was around 400K. So if we're going to double that to
800K, um that's that's that's going to be issue. Um I I just don't know how that works >> between our school and that >> how we're going to make that work. So we had $800 $800,000 in revenue to play with last year when we started the
budget process. Um, this coming year going forward, we're looking at a potential $200 to $300,000 increase in health insurance for FY27 for the town. Now, I'm talking about the whole town. $100,000 increase in pensions for the town.
So, that's 300 that's potentially, you know, $300,000 right off the top. We don't know what our school's going to come in. I've heard talk of level service budget. I've seen they well they brought it up at a school committee meeting level service is going to be
higher than level funding. We know that. So level service could be >> 4% >> 800,000 uh increase or more. I mean, how so at the on Monday's meeting, I brought up the fact that, you know,
realistically, we may have to not only are we going to have this debt exclusion, we we may have to ask at some point >> for an op uh Proposition 2 and a half operation over operational override to fund our operation budget. It's it's a realistic fact and if we don't say it, I
think we're being irresponsible to our residents if we don't bring that fact up. So, and that would be that would raise our tax base. That's a permanent increase to your tax number to your tax base. That doesn't ever go down. Once it gets there, it's staying
there. That's not temporary. Um, so that's that's the other thing that that that worries me. Um I think Kevin Gaspar even said it would with the increase in teachers, the increase in tuition,
the cushion would be forced to seek uh within a couple years. >> Well, we can I mean it's either that or you won't be a one time thing. >> It's either that or we're going to have like drastic cuts to all our departments. So how much are we going to cut our police department? We're going
to cut our police force in half. But I was reading that uh Governor Healey uh and her administration is actually going to give consideration to repealing Proposition 2 and a half. So when that happens, if that happens, >> the doors are wide open.
>> I was going to I was going to bring that up on Monday, but I didn't. But when they're talking about that at the state level, especially the governor, people better pay attention because Proposition 2 and a half is property tax owners last safeguard against property taxes from
going haywire. >> That's why I said that spending is going out of control and you just opened a floodgate. >> That's a guardrail. And if that's gone, then who knows? Not just that, but numbers I just saw today tax going up. Well, that's that's the so
municipal that's the municipal >> jack up the so the governor's workound her her workound around proposition 2 and a half is this municipal empowerment act which has given uh local authorities at the municipal level um the ability to
raise the rate on excise tax meals tax that kind of stuff. So that's our, you know, our current leadership in the state. That seems to be the answer for a lot of things is >> controlling spending and controlling income >> is increasing taxes is raising taxes.
>> Yeah. >> It's like, well, how about controlling your wasteful spending, right? I mean, so this is we're going off topic a little bit, but it has to be brought up because we're we're sitting here doing this going through this exercise
in my opinion because of irresponsible spending at our at our state level, which has gone on for for decades. And we've had we've had Republican governors, we've had many Democrat governors. Um, but we have a super majority of Democrats that run this
state. And something's got to give. I mean, you can't just keep putting more and more in the back of us, the taxpayers. I mean, I'm a taxpayer in this town. So, I'm looking at this whole project. Number one, as a taxpayer, I live here. I don't want to move. Um I I
but if it gets too expensive >> to to live here uh because we have to constantly ask for Proposition 2 and a half overrides um I I I don't know if I would stay here. I mean [snorts]
these are the realistic things that we have to think about. Yeah. Is this the is this a great thing to bring up? No, it's not. Do people not everybody probably wants to hear this, but this is the reality of the situation. And if we don't speak to it >> Mhm. Then I I just feel like we're being irresponsible to all our taxpayers. Um
and it's going to come down to the bottom line is again affordability. What can each person afford? But you can't just look at the debt exclusion headline. You have to look at all the other factors that are going to go into it. You know, they Okonnell is going to
add three shops. You're probably going to have three instructors in each shop, right? I I'm guessing just that's close to that's probably a million dollars in salaries right there with benefits. Um so that's going adding to their operational budget. And I'm not saying
they don't need a new school. I if this if if this does if it fails I think I don't know if Old Colony can look into this and trying to recruit more member towns into the collaborative instead of only having five. Let's say we had let's
say there was 10 [snorts] or seven or eight. We used to have Freetown as part of the mix. So we had six then and that's and when Freetown left our piece of the pie got bigger. We started paying more. Um but if they had more then that
brings everybody's cost down even more. >> I hear what you're saying but that means less kids that means less of our kids would be going to Old Colony. my kids would get the education privacy and then they're going to public. >> I Well, I know I get it. I mean, that is a good argument, too. I mean, it's just
it's tough. This is tough. >> This is This is like a debate like a high school debate talking both sides. >> Well, this is really tough. This is this is really tough. And like I said, it's we're not here to make a [clears throat] recommendation to the residents. That's not We're not doing that. That's not our job. Our job is to just educate you to
the facts as as much as possible as what we know um and what we can predict as far as budgets from an operational perspective because we deal with it every single year and we're going to be faced with it again in FY27. None of
this stuff is even going to come into play >> in FY27 um >> or 280. >> No, it's it we won't start dealing with this for a couple years from now. Um, but this will be a reality at that point if this does pass and we're going to
have to figure it out. Um, you know, are we going to get more state 80? They're going to rework um chapter 70. Um, I'm actually going to be attending a uh a forum on chapter 70 funds uh coming up. Uh
it's right actually, ironically, it's right after the vote. It's on the 19th. So [laughter] they're they're going to have they're going to have a chapter 70 forum on on the day after we take the vote. Um it would have been nice to have that f before right, don't you think? >> Um
so I I want to try and educate myself as much as I can with this and you know hopefully you know we start getting a little bit more of a piece of the pie for chapter 70 and and projects like this. They our leaders at the state
level, I'm sorry, have failed us tremendously. Um because we should not be sitting here right now doing this like this. We really we really shouldn't. It It's It's just a shame. >> But that doesn't change. It
>> doesn't change what we're faced with, right? We need to make a decision on what makes the most sense >> for, you know, for the town. And and I sit here and I think, okay, there's the right decision for me, but then there's also the right decision for the town. And I like to think that I can't just
think about me. I have to think about what's the right decision for the town. >> Yes. >> Long term. >> Well, because we're responsibility, we have our personal responsibilities and family responsibilities, but we also hold a town responsibility. I'm I I'm
thinking different as as a resident compared to my my seat right now as the chairman of the finance committee. I'm looking at the entire town and all the issues that we face, all the budgets we have. I'm not just looking at it from my own personal perspective. Um as far as
what I'm going to have to pay. Um you know, fortunately, I can absorb that debt exclusion. I don't know, not everybody might be able to. Um I can but my again my bigger worry is how it's going to affect our operational budget
>> 3 four 5 years from now >> override >> yeah because I mean overrides are becoming more and more commonplace in our state um unfortunately >> well the ask is the pass isn't >> the ask right the well yeah because >> you want to do away with
>> what the state state aid is not keeping pace with uh fixed cost and >> we I was saying this 10 years ago. Um other people on the fincom before some of you guys were here were say were saying that um that this is not sustainable. I mean you know that Mr.
St. Gene um when you were chairman uh some of the stuff you we we were dealing with this for years >> and we knew we were going to get to this point at some at some point and I we're here now unfortunately >> predicted it for a long time. for a long time. I think I mean you know
I've been here see age of 16 I was pregnant when they when I joined right >> I do work with a couple of people who actually are on the finance committee for the towns that they live in >> and I had a lengthy conversation with one of my co-workers
um and and their point of view is granted he lives in a very affluent town their point of view is that Proposition 2 and a half was never meant to just lock in right like everyone knew at the time it was not sustainable you would have to go for an override every x number of years. And I say that because
we've never done this, right? In the 16 years that I have been on finance committee and I've lived in the town since 1997, I don't ever remember an override. So, and I think that we have done a good job to try and keep that in check. >> You know, that's how I feel. I
>> I think you're right on that. That's it's we've done a very good job. I think we've done a good job because other other towns have done it and they've needed to do and I think we've done a good job >> and but there is only so much you can pull that thread right like it was a thick rope and I think we're down to a
very fine piece of thread where you use for sewing at this point. >> Well, that is true but there's only so much we can ask from our taxpayers too. I mean, I mean, we all I mean, we have many people in this town who don't have a mortgage anymore, >> but they really do because between
property taxes and homeowners insurance, that's that's almost the equivalent of a mortgage now. >> So, I in my mind, the people that this is probably going to affect maybe even harder than some of the people on fixed incomes are the people with mortgages now, especially maybe younger people.
I'm glad I'm towards the end of mine. Um, I would never want to be starting out right now. I'll tell you that. Um, but I think it's going to affect them probably more, you know, and it depends on your income level. You know, it's [sighs] I I don't know,
but this was a good healthy discussion. Um, and it's and I think it's important for our residents to see that, you know, we're we have different opinions on this. We're not all aligned on this. We're not saying the finance committee unanimously does this. We're
not there. So, we just had we just we just proved that tonight. Um and I think that's a good thing. Um and I think it's good that you know maybe the board of selectmen has different opinions as well and we may think differently than them than the board of selectman. I think
that's all great. Um because it really is going to come down to again the the individual homeowner and what they can afford. That's that's going to be the bottom line. Um but again, you have you can't just think about your debt exclusion. You got to think about the bigger picture beyond
that as well. And that's pretty much it. I think I think we can pretty much put this to bed now. We we've talked about it a lot um at Nauseium. Uh I know old colony has. they were gracious, you know, to [clears throat] come down for a third time um at my
request and I was very appreciative of that. So, it was, you know, it's been a it's been a definitely an educational process. We had some good input from residents who have, you know, come to these meetings um that we've had. I would have would I have liked to seen a
bigger uh venue? Uh I probably would have loved to seen uh you know one of these outreach public outreach sessions in our Ford middle school gymnasium with a packed house. Um I think that's what's really needed. I mean we have what
almost about maybe around 8,000 registered voters. >> Can I said what 7,500? Imagine the impact you can have if just one time you have 7500. Well, the thing is, well, there was a gentleman at the at the meeting on Monday >> and he had just gotten wind of it
>> and I don't know how he found out about it, but you know, it's not >> sign and asked somebody, "Hey, what's that?" >> Okay. Yeah. So, but it's not like we're putting flyers out. >> You know, every resident's not getting a flyer in their mailbox saying, "Hey, this is on the table." >> Um, we're not doing a reverse 911. Um,
>> I'll give them credit. The OPM I mean, my kids, they had a toucher truck at St. Francis, they were there. They were at um the school for town meeting. They've done a lot of hours has. Yes, definitely. >> No, they have. They've done a very good job. >> It's it's it's amazing because again, I
keep bringing it up, but I just went through this um doing a death exclusion for a building project. And it's amazing like I I spent, you know, three nights a week going to all these events. And we actually did send a mailer to every house and and you still get people like
days before them, oh, what's the vote for? And it's like If you watch, you know, they go on, they go about their lives. >> Well, today's in today's day and age, >> you know, everybody's on this, you know, on the cell phone, >> but there's a lot of not everybody is. No, my parents aren't, you know, they
don't have they're not on social media. They don't know any of the things. They get their information from me. Uh, fortunately, um, [laughter] >> unfortunately, unfortunately, >> I'm sure they want to look at it. Both sides. >> Is it possible to put this, Eric? You
were talking about putting something on Facebook, the tax impact projection that was part of the first handout. >> I think we're we're only going to be we're only going to be allowed to put so what we post colony um project website's
>> Yeah, there's already a calculator, but there's a template and the slides are also on their pages also. >> I know, but it's it's >> the issue is people aren't going there, right? We're well, we're making we're going to have one made up which is going to model what Lakeville has right now. >> Okay. >> And what I guess Rochester has.
[clears throat] >> Um so it's going to be similar to what they're putting out. >> Kevin said that they're going to get the signs, right? And they >> Yeah, all they're going to have the signs just going to say debt exclusion. I think go anymore. >> Oh yeah, that's right. It's not even going to have that on. It's just going
to have the you know the authorization. So I don't know what they're going to have on the side. >> When did that change? I thought it was going to be both questions. I mean the val, right? >> Yeah. Originally it was going to be that way and then technically I guess it couldn't be it wasn't couldn't be done that way. >> So what [clears throat] I was told is >> so yeah
>> gold colony is paying for the ballot and >> there's only two other towns correct that are >> they have there's two town two other communities have have both questions on their ballot. I don't know if they're doing like a split ballot where there's two different ballots, but because old
colony is is doing this, they can't I guess for legal reasons or otherwise, they can't we can't put our cuz the debt solution is the town is the town's portion of the ballot. >> Pay for the ballot. So the town can't have its own question on the ballot.
>> So how these other communities too late to >> No, they had the ballots I think >> about two months ago. Christian can't print up the >> well just so his look this is a I guess a basic point you know so we're going to have the one question on the ballot
right so you could have somebody who's an idealist right and says hey yeah I'd love to I want that I want a new school I'm I'm saying yes >> they don't and but they don't see what it's going to cost and then when they find out and then when they find out after the fact they're going to vote no
you can't do that because then >> that's our biggest that that would create a huge problem. >> I I'd like to bring up the point that if you all remember back in the spring, there was two questions for our school. Well, because it's our school, we were able to do that. We were able to put the
question of let's go ahead and do this project and B fund it with the source. >> I mean, so but now we you walk in, you don't being paid for. come the 18th, if it passes, I think the town will really
have to push hard about the um >> debt exclusion >> debt exclusion question and explain to people we are on the hook for this. We're trying to figure out how we're going to pay for it. You vote no, we're still on the hook for >> and but that's the thing. And so that
needs to be followed up with, okay, fine. This is if okay, this debt exclusion is going to go out there and if you vote no on this, guess what? That's going to hit our operating budget 100%. >> Oh yeah, that's what they said. >> You're gonna lose a lot of teachers. >> You're gonna lose.
We're going into potential receiverhip. >> This initial ballot, the first ballot question, which is going to be next week, is really the the more important of the two because it's going to determine what's going to take place next. So, [snorts] if you don't if if somebody
out there is not in favor of paying, then then you're going to vote no on giving Old Colony the authorization to build. If if you are okay with paying, then you're going to give Old Colony the authorization to build. You're going to say yes on the ballot question, right? I mean, it's a kind of a no-brainer.
>> Be kind of foolish to say yes and then say I don't want to pay for it. >> No, you're going to say you can't say yes and then say no. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. >> If that happens, it's going to get interest. If that happens, it's going to create a nightmare. >> And we can be I mean, [clears throat] we'd be realistic, too, about at this
point trying to educate the people that are going to show up to vote. >> It's late. Yeah. >> If you're going to show up to vote, you've already educated yourself. >> You're going to realistically, you're not going to be there to vote. >> Yeah. You're not having this conversation with somebody as they're walking into the into the school to
already know what they doing. But you have to go to vote because if you don't go to vote because you assume it's going to go your way and you don't think you need to show up, the other four towns can swing it the other way if no one's a lot >> different.
We've gone over this numerous times, but for the public out there who still isn't aware, it's a collective majority. So, as a t as a town, we could oppose it uh by a tremendous number. But if
Lakeville, Rochester, Carver, and Mad Poison it have enough votes that outnumber ours, then guess what? It's going to it's it's passing >> regardless of if whether or not you want it or not. It's Is that right? Does it stink for that reason?
Yeah. I mean it's it it could I mean depending on what side you're on. Um >> so basically I want to also just follow up with the discussion about the ballot. So basically if you're going to the ballot on the 18th you need to make sure you're going back to that same ballot in another 6 months for the debt exclusion.
>> Don't just do for the school and then do >> and you know just do the school and then not come back for the >> debt exclusion. No, it's if it if it doesn't pass, then we're not going to be dealing with the debt exclusion ballot question in the spring. >> Um,
>> but then OC is going to have to, you know, they might do something else as far as maybe doing >> that's going to take them a little, >> you know, they're going to have they'll have to figure that out. Um, you know, and it's just it it's a process. I just hope enough people are aware of what's
going on. So hopefully enough people watch us on either local cable access or you can go to a cushion at YouTube watch this meeting. You can watch all the meetings. Um we've talked about it at a lot um over the last several weeks um
>> months. call off >> agenda vote. >> And uh >> so I think I I I think we've uh >> we've discussed this quite a bit tonight and I think we can move on to uh >> minutes
>> minutes. We have three sets of minutes and it's uh we did pretty good on time. It's 7 o'clock. >> So the first set I got to >> any games? >> No. [clears throat] Patriots Patriots tomorrow night. >> Master playing, >> you know, actually before before we vote
on the minutes or go over the minutes. I I I missed the opportunity to say this at the beginning of the meeting. Um with yesterday being Veterans Day, I'd like to recognize our three gentlemen right here who are veterans. I don't know. Phil, are you a veteran? >> No. >> No. Mr. St. Gene was a member of the Coast Guard.
>> Eric was a member of the Air Force, and Pete was a member of the Army. >> Gentlemen, thank you for your service. It's much appreciated. Um, love our love our vets. >> It was an honor. An honor to serve. >> Absolutely. >> We do it again in a heartbeat.
>> Okay. That being said, um, we have a set of minutes from September 11th, 2024. Um, in attendance was myself, Pete Benoy, Eric Chu, Kristen Flynn, Eric McGlin, and Mr. St. Gene.
>> Make a motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Those minutes are approved. All right, let me just go to the next set. Next set of minutes is from May 20th, 2025. Uh, in attendance was myself, Phil
Adams, Pete Benoy, Eric Chu, Eric Mclenn, Lisa Tomlinson, and Mr. St. Gene. >> Motion review. >> Second. All in favor? >> Okay, those minutes are approved.
Last set is >> one June 16th. >> No, >> June 16th. June 16th, 2025 is our the last set. Um, in attendance was myself, Sue, Phil, Pete, Benoy, Eric Chu, Eric
McGlenn, Christine Flynn, Lisa, and Mr. St. Gene. >> Motion second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. All the minutes are approved. Um, we don't have any meetings uh coming up, but one thing
I' I'd like to bring up. So, if if this does pass, then I think I might want to start our budget process a little bit earlier. Um, not that it's going to affect us this year,
but all the departments that are really going to have to shop their pencils again this year. I mean, it's >> Do we know when the debt would come online for us? >> 2028. >> Said 289. It would And it would be in increments. It wouldn't be all >> that would be a small portion. It would be it would be [clears throat] completed
construction what 2029 I think he said >> 2029 and 30 I think engine cutting was be 30 >> but I thought there was preliminary expenses there was a couple million up front which comes off the bottom line of the project uh gas bar and >> the van the whole thing they said they were doing this three different bands
were doing up at first >> so there will be some cost uh initially >> but um >> yeah I just think we're going to you know potentially have to stop the process a little bit earlier this year. I think last year we started it correct. >> I think we need to start it earlier only
because we were up against it. >> I mean that has nothing to do with this vocs from the state department. >> They've been watching the um assessor meeting and I believe they're ahead of
the ball compared to last year. >> So we might have an opportunity to actually get some of these meetings started. >> Yeah. Because it seems like our annual town meeting is getting later and later. I mean, if you if you look at the vacancies that are posted, it's I don't know who works in town hall. Like, we
don't have town admin town administrator. Obviously, Jamie stayed on, but no TA, no assistant. Um, sorry, no admin assistant, no part-time admin assistant, no finance director. So, that's concerning. >> Mhm. >> That that's that's concerning.
>> All right. >> Perfect. Stone. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? And we're now [music] [music]