being 7:00. Do I have a motion to open our meeting? So moved. Second. All in favor? I. Okay, we are open. Good evening. This is a meeting of the finance committee. It is Thursday, April 24th, 2025. This meeting is being audio and video recorded. Uh please rise for the pledge
of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Okay. On the agenda tonight, we have uh
two budget hearings. Uh first we're going to take uh Old Colony. Uh we have our the superintendent from Old Colony, Mr. Aaron Palansky. And um Sarah Griffin Griffith is also here, the business manager.
Um the floor is yours, Aaron. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Um we put together a quick presentation for the finance committee and for any viewers watching at home. and I'll take you through that presentation and then what we can do is turn it over for questions and answers.
Um, so I'll begin quickly. We always like to share our mission. Our mission is to prepare and support students for the global demands of society in the workforce through rigorous vocational, technical, and academic courses. This foundation is established within a safe environment that values students
interests, needs, and diversity, fostering responsible, productive citizens in our community. The first slide we want to share with you and we do this annually is just a view of application trends the total of Kushnet applications and this includes
residents from private schools as well. You can see the trends from 2018 where we were at 51 students uh and up to 2025 where we were at 79 uh and there was an increase up to about
2023 and a small decrease from 2023 to 2025. I can make this available to everyone as well if you'd like. The admission trends for Kushnet continue here. The total enrollment for FY25 is 190 and the total enrollment for
FY26 194 which is an additional four students. Anytime we see any a large increase, for instance, Carver had 14 additional students this year. In October, if we see that type of jump, we'll typically call the town administrator and have a conversation
for budgeting purposes. This year, there were no red flags. The year before I did call Jamie, we had a conversation in October so that he could be prepared in in advance, but we didn't have any red flags in terms of big jumps or or declines this year.
uh the fiscal implications of the FY26 budget. We had long-term debt of over $500,000 that was retired in the FY26 budget and a vocational instructor was actually cut this year. Uh we cut one instructor because of the budgetary um
constraints. On February 24th, we met with uh representatives from all of our member towns and got feedback from them. And as a result, that's why that instructor was cut. We did have a request for a co-op coordinator in the amount of $110,000 that was also cut from the budget
request. Uh it was replaced with a request for a $20,000 stipend allocation. Uh that will allow us to support our vocational coordinator, but not to the extent of a co-op coordinator. A lot of schools our size have two administrators, one that oversees co-op, one that oversees
vocational programs. Bethany Battello is our vocational coordinator and co-op coordinator. She does both jobs, which is usually a twoperson show. The FY26 budget consists of a 4.12% increase of which
2.93% is attributed to insurance increases. And the reason why I share that is because at the municipal level, insurance is typically included in or not included in the number that you see. But for us, we carry the insurance. So when you take that insurance out, our
increase is a 1.19% increase. Uh that being said, the insurance increases of approximately 19% for active and 22% uh for retirees are a big portion of this. Inflation
associated with supply lines and energy are a big portion. We have a 3% cola in accordance with the negotiated contracts. And what we do when we negotiate contracts, just so folks that are watching understand this as well, is we do our research. We try to find out what the trends are
amongst our member towns as well, uh, as smaller vocational schools of a similar size. We never want to be the highest and we never want to be the lowest and that's really important to us. We also ask what the municipalities are are honoring so that we can stay in a
reasonable range. We do the exact same thing with our budget. So you'll see that on the one pager. I will typically reach out to my colleagues to find out where they're falling in terms of their budget planning because we want to be reasonable, responsible, and and uh receptive to what we're hearing from our
member towns. Um in addition, we do have a request for a $45,000 uh position. It's an assistant to our director of technology. He has worked um on his own for as long as he's been in the district and he's been with
us at least since I started uh which was about nine years ago. Uh he's never had assistance and we want to put something in place to give him a little bit of assistance uh because we believe it's necessary. um anyone who's in the computer world uh will understand maybe
or specifically but to be a oneman show in a 9 through2 high school even though we're only about 560 students that's a big ask I know um locally does he have does he have um he has an he has like a tech that
like a tech that helps him this would be a tech so he already nobody so he's just by himself by himself Okay. Yeah. So, this would be that T that you're referring to. Um, the other piece was uh the aforementioned $20,000 stipen allocation, and that's in lie of the
co-op coordinator. So, we cut that position when we heard from our member towns. Uh we we had hoped to add it this year because we really feel it's necessary. Our co-op numbers have been phenomenal, but we feel like we could still manage it um by potentially
putting a stipended position in place that will allow Bethany um to rethink where she puts her efforts and allow somebody to pick up some of what she does maybe in other areas that might not be a co-op coordinator. So, those are some of the fiscal
implications. Um the proposed budget, just an another overview, uh begins in earnest with the release of the governor's state budget proposal. Her recommendations were released earlier this year. We did not see major increases in chapter 7 funding. Uh we
did with the recent release of the house numbers see uh an estimated 28,000ish in regional transportation and perhaps another 40,000 in chapter 70, but none of that's guaranteed. So we don't bank on that until final numbers
come through. Um we've shared our recommendations as part of our draft budget um with all of our member towns. We do that early a as early as we possibly can once the governor releases her numbers. Typically we'll go to that meeting, we'll receive feedback and then we'll sometimes we'll hold the number
and sometimes we'll really make some major adjustments. This year there were some major adjustments made because of the feedback we received. So, um, of the five member towns, there were two member towns, uh, call it two and a half who really expressed a need for us to figure
out if we could sharpen our pencil a little bit, and we did. Um, and I think that what we've come up with is a very responsible budget. We tend to be conservative. We were transparent of the entire line itemized sheet so that you can see line by line exactly what we're
doing. Uh, luckily I have Sarah with us tonight. She's the guru. So, if there are any intricate questions, I typically turn it over to Sarah. Um, but that's a quick overview. If people have questions, we're happy to answer them. Thank you, You're welcome.
Um, just a couple questions on your if you could just elaborate a little bit more about those bullet points that you talked about, specifically your insurance increases. Um, is that driven by rate increases? How is that how how
did it get how is it 19% and 22% increase? So, it's a combination of our rate increase with Maya, the group that we are a part of and our enrollment increasing at the school district itself itself. So, those two things are
happening. Um and then another question too is what um assumptions did you use for the inflation of supplies and energy? I know especially energy that's always that's always tough. So for energy
um I always take the current year's trends wherever we're at. Um and usually I'll do about a 10% increase for electricity and gas. I will say that at Old Colony since the performance measurement contract was done, which is
probably about 12 years ago now, haven't had any major fluctuations in electricity or gas. It was just this past year that I sort of saw things sort of planning a little bit and said, "Okay, came to the budget subcommittee and had a conversation about needing to make a change to increase things for
next year." Um, I think there are a lot of unknowns right now. We did just get notice from Power Options, who is the our um um joint purchasing um contract that um they're issuing us a small rebate for this year because of some of
the price increases that they estimated that they're so we're protected through power options, which they've been really great since I've been at the school district. Um but I do have a 10% increase for next year. Okay. Is that 10% also for supplies too or? No, 10.
Usually supplies are about three. Uh and I I will always gauge it on the the contractor's current pricing. And um what the school district has done is if there is an opportunity in the current year's budget to purchase our contract for the next year, we usually will do
that too if there's any money remaining in the spring to um you know reup your contract for the following fiscal year if we know we're going to use the vendor every year anymore. Right. right now. That sounds smart. Um, and then I guess the other question
I had was only about the long-term debt retirement. So, that's a big amount. If you could just elaborate on that and, you know, and talk a little bit about what that is and and how that came to be. Sure. So, the
school district had two forms of debt. One was a bond and one was a capital lease. The bond was done um for uh roof renovation and science lab and the capital lease was done for the
performing measurement contract that those were both done prior to me arriving with the school um in 2014. The lease had a 6 and a4% interest rate with a balloon a balloon payment which was tough. Um but when I got
together with the towns probably about 10 years ago now um we had a small amount that we were putting aside to save for future payments on that balloon so that the member towns wouldn't have that huge burden you know towards the end of it
and um the principal payment was about $125,000 a year on the bond. So those two forms of debt have expired this year. We do have a line in our budget for OPED and a line for stabilization.
Um in the budget you you have in front of you, you'll see that the stabilization line is increased slightly. Our hope is that, you know, our member towns will support us giving a little bit more to stabilization for future payments on whether it's um capital improvements to the school
district itself or um payments involved in an MSBA um project, whatever it may be. Um you know, we are asking for a small amount of reappropriation from the debt payments that we were making to stabilization funding for the school
year. Sure. So that just kind of that just got absorbed into any other increases that you may have had throughout the budget. It did. Yeah. So yes. So um and you know everybody knows how that works, right? So you're trying to do the best you can with what
you've got and you know initially when we had put the budget together we were really hoping to fund stabilization with the full amount that we have falling off of our debt. you know, it had been sometime administrators had had conversations with us and they said, you know, we really don't like to let debt fall off and at budget form because then
it creates major fluctuations going forward should you need to acquire debt in the future. Um, and I think that that, you know, that being said, I do think our colony has been putting off some major um, improvements that are needed. And so, you know, the hope is we can kind of give give the stabilization
fund a little bit of funding here, but the amount of money that the capital lease was $425,000 last year. So, capital lease was 425,000 and the principal payment on the bond was 125,000. I think that's that's
that's all I had. I just wanted to make one more note about the budget process and um as superintendent has mentioned we are looking at a potential of receiving more funding. So O colony if we receive additional chapter 70 or chapter 71 we will use those funds to
lower fourth quarter assessment or apply those funds directly to if it's chapter 71 the following year's budget um depending on the budget season. In the last two years, we've lowered fourth quarter assessments for all of our member towns. Anytime we receive additional regional transportation reimbursement or chapter 70 funding, we
will adjust the budget um increase the revenues coming from the state and decrease assessment. So, I just wanted to make everyone aware of that, too. I have a I have a qu a question. Um first of all, I think it's commendable that you carry the health insurance in
your budget. um cuz that's a big portion to have you explored any other groups besides Maya cuz Maya seems pretty expensive as far as the percentage increase. So, we were part of Gateway Health Group um back when I started and
we stayed part of Gateway Health Group for quite a long time until um we were entering a a year with Gateway that was going to be a 20% increase in health insurance rate premiums and our staff
had only gotten a 1% COLA and so we took a look at different groups and decided to join Maya. We did not have any plan design change. We do carry a high premium no deductible low co-pay
plan which is a more expensive plan. Um the insurance subcommittee has discussed plan design change for the future. So that is an option that we will have as part of Maya moving forward. What's the
percentage split? We have a tiered split. employees who have been with the school district longer. Uh the is a uh 7525 split. Then there's a 7030 split and there's a 6040 split. Retirees are
also 6040. So new hires with the school district are 6040 and retirees are 6040. I might be missing it somewhere. Is that uh the position that was cut? Was that through attrition or was it retired? It was not through attrition. Okay. It was
in a vocational shop that had low enrollment. Okay. And we felt it was the responsible thing to do. It was hard to do because the instructor is a phenomenal instructor. I hate to lose that individual, but it was a decision made based. You know, our job is to run an organization like you would a
business in that sense. And when we saw the low enrollment, we said, you know, if this builds back up, maybe we'll add it back in the future. But because the low enrollment in that particular program, we made it a decision that that was where the instructor had to come from. So if you
go to page two, um, page two, it's the shop with the 22% decrease right at the bottom. the page. Anywhere else you see a negative in the salary section is savings on hiring from a retiree. And I guess this is just more of a a
curious question about um food service. Your cafeteria manager is in is in the budget. And I mean to me that's just a little bit different because we usually see those in the food service revolving fund, but I don't know if that's something different being a vocational
school or No, it's just when I got there, that's how it was. Um, honestly, uh, she's always been, the director has always been part of the operating budget for the school district. I didn't bring her into it. It's just always been that way. Um, when I started in 2014, I had a very open and com honest conversation
with my predecessor and he said, you know, our food service program is in the negative right now. We're operating the negative. Um, and I hit the ground running with my food service. She's the director now. She was the manager then. And I said, we we need to talk about this. We need to figure out what's going on with your program because, you know, you're in you're in a deficit. So, we
meet once a week. We have since 2014. And um she's brought the program into at least the block. Um I would love for for her program to be able to support her salary. I do think that we are getting closer. Um so that might be something for the future that you see coming out
of our budget. Um food service. She's done a great job. Programs have benefited over the past few years. Yeah. uh reimbursements and for sure because during co we were receiving you know um the extreme economic disadvant disadvantage rate which we would have
never received being where we are right um and so there's been some things we've been able to do we don't have a very large fund balance right now um it's about $120,000 um that is and I know participation is tough for high school
students although we have great participation and I will say that you know she's very creative we make all of our own food um really from scratch and um the kids love it and so enrollment's not bad, but I wouldn't want to take something that's been in the operating budget out of the operating budget and
put it to that grant unless we were 100% sure that we were going to be able to fund it. But we do consider our our program to be quite a success over the last 10 years for sure. We're proud of it. That's good. I had a question regarding the transportation fund
offset. Um, sure. Last year it appeared like it was 350,000 and then this year is zero. Yep. So, as we just talked about that's chapter 71, regional transportation reimbursement. Um, we build a budget based on the cherry sheet, which is an estimate. If we
receive more money than what's on the cherry sheet, we apply it to the following year's budget, which is what you're seeing there, that 350,000. As of right now, we are not receiving any additional funds in chapter 71. If we do, we will apply them
to fourth quarter assessments, which we've also done, or the following year's operating statement. So, it's a mass general law that is available to regional school districts that receive chapter 71 aid. You can either use it in the current fiscal year, lower fourth quarter assessments, or you can put it in the revolving fund for the following
fiscal year and apply it towards the budget. And I do believe uh I drafted an email as well in response to that question because I was not able to attend the select board meeting. So, I was unwell. Um that fund is master general law regulated. You cannot have a
balance in your regional transportation revolving fund for more than one fiscal year. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Who provides the school security? We have an SRO um that is appointed
through the Rochester Police Department. Okay. And then it's a shared cost um with an offset for the time that that person is not working the 180day school year that's picked up by the town of Rochester. top is for what's the split on that?
So, it's the it's the full year um minus 180 pro the 180 is prrated based on the salary of that individual. I'd say it's about 6040 maybe 7030. I think it's closer to Yeah, I think it's closer to 70 180 um 180 days of a 260 day year. So
7030 of that question. Excuse me. I have a question. So, on top of your new director of assistant, um I noticed there's a um $31,000 increase in contracted services
for technology. Can you explain that? The contracted services for technology are directly related to the cost of those contracts that we have right now. So, we have the Raptor software that came in last year. Um that's uh school security. So, that we're scanning IDs
when they come in the building. that was about $10,000 a year. And we also have Frontline, which is a time and attendance system and an absence management system that there is about $15,000 a year. We implemented that last year. Um, and the remainder of that
$33,000 increase is each contracted service that we're using for the building. So you're talking student management software um firewall um my general ledger accounting software um teach point our evaluation which is an evaluation software for teachers any
contracted service that you building wide. Okay. Thank you. If you're really interested I can get you a list. I don't Okay. I'm just curious bump there. So okay. Thank you. Sure. H how often do we see that transportation fund offset at
zero? Is that like uncommon? Um I'm trying to think back honestly because the the regional transportation reimbursement offset account started coming to us when the state started reimbursing at around 80%. That was the first year. I want to say it was
probably about 5 years ago that that began. Okay. Um there was a jump. There was a leveling. We're hoping there's another jump, but there was a leveling. Yeah. And that leveling is indicative of the lack of differential, if that makes sense. The other piece to that um money
is because the school districts were contracting our transportation and we changed the way that we were handling non-resident tuition. So, because we were no longer taking Freetown students and we were
taking indistation expense, equaling a bus, an entire bus. When I file the end of year report and I tell the Department of Education how much money we're spending, they're catching up one year behind
um my actual compared to their estimated. So if they don't know, there's no way for them to know we're adding buses until after we've already spent those funds. So part of that regional transportation reimbursement fund being so much over the last few years has been us adding one bus to our
fleet for three years straight, which now we will not add any more buses to our um to our fleet. I do not expect to see a a large there's been some conversation at the state level about potential for 100% reimbursement. If that happens this
school year, the town of Okushnet will see that money returned to them. If it happens next school year and they actually budget for it and they give us a projection on a cherry sheet that looks reliable, you know, it will go towards next year's revenue source. So you that's like you'd see that now if I
knew it was happening, but I don't I can't guarantee it, right? Yeah. I mean, it would be in a perfect world, it would be nice if we had more local aid to go around, right? I mean, Right. Everybody's feeling the effects of that. And I
just I blame what happens with some of that stuff with some irresponsible spending that goes on at the state level. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the town of Aushnit's um minimum local contribution, it's up $210,000. So, that is on one of your sheets that you have there. But that
right there is the you know the state's assessment on the town of a Christian's ability to fund education at Okalony. $210,000 is the increase for your budget for this next year. So of your, you know, total assessment
increase 210,000 the state is saying is minimum local. But we would share your sentiments, doc. Um, on the executive board for MASS, there's been some very aggressive advocacy to be to rethink the chapter 70 formula. Yeah. Because it
needs to be looked at. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And even when we're looking at the MSBA funding, you know, to build a vocational school versus a traditional high school, um the reimbursement rate right now there's no differential, but when you look at the cost per square foot to build one versus
the other, there should be a differential. So, we've put forth legislation to advocate on that level as well. That's good because I, you know, for a project that size, you know, I feel like the current administration just keeps putting more and more on the back
of the taxpayers, right? And at some point, people are going to be fed up with this stuff. There's only a tiny amount that people can do. Yeah. I mean, they they waste millions and millions of dollars on a bunch of N. And I'm not going to get into all that. I could, but I'm not going to uh cuz I want to, you
know, keep things on point. Uh but you know, you know what I'm talking about. It's just it it's wasteful, irresponsible spending and the the leaders this lack of leadership is just is horrible. Um, you know, it's really comes down to common sense. You know, I
think I think the schools should have more of the local aid because then there's less of a burden on the taxpayers. I I don't get it, but maybe the hopefully the voters will get it at some point.
Does anybody else have any questions? Lisa, do you have any questions? Um, can I I guess just to ask Sarah clarification on something. Um, the technology coordinator isn't on this budget before was was it an allocation
thing? It's a different account. Yep. So, the Department of Education uh end of year report dictates how I build the budget. So, you'll see that the technology coordinator salary has been moved from a 1,00 series number to a 4,000 series number. Okay. And did you guys add a um an English
teacher? That one went up 70,000 or so. No. So, um any change in salaries uh are actual salaries. So whether they're lane changes or step changes. Um I believe that English we had a teacher
that it's kind of complicated. Your our English teacher and our social studies. We had a split position but now it's categorized as English instead of a split position. So that's where you're seeing it. You actually see a savings and in hiring in the social studies
line. I did see that. Yeah. So that's the that's the flip because that person's dual certified. Okay. It just happened to be categorized there because of the shift. Okay. Y that was how the person was teaching before. So it's changing going forward. And so our finances have to align with um our EPIM
reporting so that Department of Education knows where everybody is and what they teach for the um PD expenses. I mean granted dollar-wise it's not that much but larger on the larger side percentage wise. Is there any reason for the
increase in some of the in some of the PD? I see um travel and conferences increased as well as uh just general PD. Is there something certification wise or anything like that? So, just for clarification, the professional development line pays for the actual
professional development. So, you put in a purchase order and you request to go somewhere after you've gotten permission from your supervisor. That's where we actually pay for that conference from from the travel and conferences. travel line is actually travel reimbursement. So that would be if someone reimbur uh
requests mileage reimbursement, food reimbursement, parking reimbursement, if they come back and they request a reimbursement after they've already attended a professional development. That could also include if they paid for their hotel room themselves. Um I will say just from a perspective of purchasing it is expensive to travel,
you know. uh it's so so general cost increases are driving the increase in that. I also would say that from the perspective of you know just just processing all of it um since co there's an interest in people getting back out into the world
and having professional development and being with each other again and you know during co we actually cut the professional development budget because people weren't going as many things but I don't know if Mr. close to anything. You know, I think actually given that you come from the world that we live in,
I think you have a fundamental understanding of the power of like the Mazbo conference or things like that, right? So, with within reason, we we encourage it, but I think that that, you know, um I just wonder what if there was
a reason for the the change from from year to year and it sounds like it was just simply, you know, cost increase in and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing absorbable. I think I just have one more question and it and it goes back to the um to the
debt service. Okay. Cuz I it maybe I'm just not understanding this that good. Um Okay. So, with the debt service being reduced by about 500,000, correct? Yes. um where I would expect the the budget to
be decreased almost by the same amount. Correct. So it just goes to like so if we have salary increases of $380,000 and a debt increase of $500,000 that nets to an overall increase of $120,000 you know I think
it' be $120,000. So, what I'm saying is if you have a debt increase of a debt decrease of $500,000 and a wages increase of $300,000, that's a $200,000 net increase to the budget. So, basically, the decrease in debt has captured the increase in our other
expenses so that we do not have to increase our budget even more. It's it's a temporary fix for a solution, long-term solution. Everyone's in the same position right now. in 2526 is the last year of the current teacher contract.
That's a good I was going to ask that too. It's a you when you look at the cycle, you know, I knock on wood and always say maybe there's someone looking over our shoulder because that, you know, when you think from a planning perspective, that debt falling off was a
blessing because that 3% that was negotiated at the time it was negotiated, we thought was a very generous number. I still think it's a very generous number. However, I have trepidation when I hear stories about local groups
negotiating higher than that. Um, I really think it's important to contemplate the impacts, not only of what you do on a local level, but the ripple effect of that. And so, that's why we pay such close attention when we're in the midst of these processes to
see that we are not the highest. We don't want to be the lowest, but from a retention perspective, we want to be somewhere in the middle and still be able to hold on to people. And from a budgeting perspective, our wages are our biggest expense, right? Everyone's in the same situation. So,
Mr. Kelly, did you have couple uh first question is uh when Kristen was talking about the revolving fund uh for the uh
culinary program and you you were talking how you've the cafeteria. Yeah. Okay. You moved it from the uh red to the black. Yep.
Other revolving funds. Uh what are the balances like in those? Do you have other revolving? Yes, of course we do. Yeah. I mean, we're a regional school district, so we do have restricted revolving funds. Of course. Like, do you have a specific question on one or No, I
want to know. Oh, I'll tell you what. Why don't you send me a report on the balances in all of them and then I'll ask a question. And my second question is as you know we got an email
today about the certification of END and what are your plans for that $315,000? Normally we use our END to buy pieces of capital equipment, but now you're going
in to a major new school. We don't know if we don't know if we are or we aren't, but what we do know is that we definitely have capital expenses. And over the last nine years anyway, you will see a minimal number of capital requests that have ever come to our
member towns via budgeting. via budgeting because often times at the end of a school year when we see END obviously there are opportunities to ensure that that um that source can be utilized for something of that nature be
are you going to use it for capital expenditures now or are you going to wait and find out if the process for the new school goes through everything that we purchase at the school, any piece of
equipment is going to that new school. They they we have um an advisory committee that meets twice a year. They put together a spiral plan of capital improvements and equipment needs in our building. There are shops that are in dire need of new equipment. So, we will
not be we will not be waiting on using END. So that'll go to equipment services some of it but but I don't know if you looked at the report 5% of OK colony's operating budget is $700,000. We have $300,000 of END. So
that's not something that we should exhaust because if something happens at the school district and there's an emergency that is what the school committee can use to help fix that so that we don't have to come back to our member towns and ask for more funding. So we will be using a portion
of our A&D. We usually try to leave at least $150,000 in our END in case there's an emergency situation at the school. Then there we will look to our advisory committee meeting minutes to see where equipment is needed. Um and if there's flexibility enough to, you know,
to do that at this time. But when I see that report and I see that 5% of our operating budget is $700,000 and we have $300,000 of END, I would think that we would want to, you know, be be careful about what we're doing. If something breaks in our school building, that's our fund to go to for an emergency.
That's understandable. Second is or third is not a uh question but a comment and the comment is I understand
you don't want to be and I feel this way for what we're doing in the town too. You don't want to be the lowest. You don't want to be the highest as far as
when you're negotiating contracts. Well, I don't think that luxury is here anymore. And a 3% increase is exorbitant. It's not exorbitant 3 years ago. If you run a comparative analysis, I still
think we negotiated that contract and I ran a comparative analysis that was not exorbitant. And I can show you the literature that we collected. Oh, I I negotiated look at comps anymore. You cannot look at comps. You have to look
at the ability of the people to pay. And the ability to pay. You could say you can't look at comps, but your teachers won't tell you that you can't look at comps. And so it's important that as a group when you're having conversations as a superintendent cohort and amongst
business managers that you enter into dialogue and talk about what best practices look like so that you don't to your point you don't end up in exorbitant places but I can tell you from all of the homework that we did and it included police and fire because you sent us a cushion of police and fire and
they were in the middle of an unresolved contract at the time and I can tell you for sure we looked at every municipal ity. We looked at every police and fire department. We looked at every set of teachers across the board, the south coast, not just vocational. And we made
a decision that was not exorbitant. So my job is to speak on the I disagree with you and I will say that it was exorbitant. It's been exorbitant across the whole labor market right now. Well, if you say across the labor market,
that's different. But I don't think they can't afford to pay for it. I think in fairness threeyear contract. I mean that's kind of what you say. What was the whole Was it a threeyear contract? It was 333 and before that I believe it was a one 211 a 211 which is not
exorbitant at all. Didn't even cover the increase on our health insurance from teachers. Right. It doesn't cover the cost of living increase. So when we're looking at inflation and inflation is far surpassing you know your contractual colas in my head I think to myself you
feel like you're in a bit of a catch 22 but I do think that we've been fiscally responsible and dutiful in the work that we've done and we've done our homework. Nothing has been random. I I agree with you. You've everybody's looked at the comps. The comps don't matter anymore.
The taxpayers can't afford the money. I hear what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. I I think we're probably saying the same thing. All for all, not just education, right? I just didn't want someone to perceive that as old colony being irresponsible.
No, Old Colony is not irresponsible. Old Colony is amongst the most transparent group of people you'll ever meet. And our our school committee drives that. I I agree. We've talked a number of times. It's just that now it's gotten to
the point that the technotic environment that we're in overall Sure. And it's a bigger, like you said, it's a bigger problem. He's referring to a lot of um you know, and it's just I think maybe it's unions in general um that are putting unrealistic
demands on the municipalities, you know, based on their they just assume that okay, well, we're going to pay they're going to be able to pay this all the time, but the taxpayers might not be able to. So, I mean, you got some towns resorting to Proposition 2 and a half overrides to fund their operational
budgets, and that's not going to happen in this town. I mean, it's becoming more commonplace in some of the wealthier districts uh throughout the Commonwealth. Um, but no, no. Yeah, that's you can't do that. No, not at all. Even our SR funds, nothing went to operational because they said we'd end
up in a pothole, right? So I think from that perspective when we talk about this and I understand what Jamie's saying and I think he's right that the days of a sustainable even when we were in the in the midst of that and we were looking at comps we understood the nature of the
ask we also understood the nature of the impact and so that's a very difficult piece to to to articulate when you're sitting across the table from people. I will say we've been blessed because we're not the highest and people don't leave to go next
doors. Yeah. You're gonna lose staff, especially in the everywhere. More than half of our teachers, the way it has to be. More than half of our teachers are at top step. If you have a teacher that's at top step and you give them a three and they're making $90,000 a year,
that means they've got a $2,700 increase for the year. Mhm. Let's think about what our economy has done over the last 3 years. I think that we had tried to do the best we could to do right by our staff and those top teachers are very valuable in our building and our
talents. It's a balance. Some of them are taxpayers here. I I think the balance is gone now and it's what the taxpayers can afford. Well, I mean, you were right about the economy being horrible for the past uh
I'd say four years. Um hopefully it gets better. I I don't have a crystal ball, but you know, um I don't believe it can get any worse than it was. Um and I'll stand by that, you
know. But, you know, you're overall your 1.19% increase, you know, taking out the the health insurance. So, that's I mean, I can't I can't ask you to do any better than that at this point. I mean, it's
the It's the, you know, the contractual things that that we that we have no control over. And anyway, does anybody else have any questions? Aaron, Sarah, thank you for coming in tonight. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
Thank you for it is it is very difficult. If any questions come up, we are always happy to ask open books and share the sentiment that you guys are always transparent with us. And you know, yeah, we've asked our own school district to model what you've
provided us in the past. Um, so yes, you you guys I think our job is to hang a sign on it, right? Just here's what it is. And and and when people come to us, Peter was at the meeting on February 24th and he said, "We can't do this." So we went back and we sharpened our pencil by quite a bit. And so we respect and
understand where he was coming from. He was not alone. Kushnet was not the only town in that situation. I'll articulate that. Appreciate it. Yeah. So, anytime you come to us and say, "Can you do better?" If we if we can, we will. Thank you both. Thank you. We appreciate
it. Like 45 minutes. That wasn't too bad. It's too bad you're not an enterprise fund. Get Steve up here so I can get home and get some sleep. Feels cool at night. Isn't that you have a bunker at the uh
place down there to sleep on? Put your tent down there. My wife put a kosh on that a long time. What time you get up? Three. Excuse me. Were you there for 3? No, I'm I I Well, I I live 40 uh 40 minutes away from
Kushnet. So, I usually get up at 2:30. 2:30 3:00. I'm in the office by 4:00 4:15. So, I I got to get my work done. You know, it's easier for me to do that before everybody shows up. Yeah. All right, gentlemen. The floor is
yours. Be out here no later than 8:30, right? I'll be out here in 5 minutes. Okay. I'm 8:00. So, it's 7:50. We're out of here. Are you trading your first round? It's going to talk in draft terms. We want to thank
you guys for uh seeing us this evening to review this. Um I think we've given you a copy of our our uh projected budget. Yes. Uh if you notice, you have the 2026 request and then the 2026 committee request. There was a um I
think one is the town hall version if I'm not mistaken. And then 2026 request is the town hall version. Yes. and the 2026 committee request is the golf committee along with Stephen and myself. Um we we have a pretty
straightforward budget. Um the salaries increase our union negotiated I think two 2% is what they've they've gone up. Um I had an increase in clubhouse employees uh a slight increase in that. Uh, as
rounds have gone up, we've had um concerns and and interest in offering more services. So, we've had increased ranges, increased bag boys, increased uh um staff in the pro shop to answer phone calls and process those rounds as well
as having additional staff available for outings. We've pretty much hit a max capacity since co um so it's been a a a grind on the workers myself as Steve staff included. Um we added a clerical
position. You'll notice that one for the 22,000 um that we didn't we didn't use that as of yet for this fiscal year that we're currently in, but I just hired a person and they are in training uh for the upcoming year. So, we're going to
try and use a lead clerical person in the pro shop and then give some assistance to her um to answer phones and book tea times and book outings and whatnot. Try to get myself out of the mix on the daily basis as well as Isaac. Let us function more as managers,
managing the business, hands-on uh directing business. He can handle more uh lessons and clinics and and you know, talk to the starters and rangers and um process the the business in that format. Um we looks like we've increased a
little bit on the treasurer collector. Um that's not anything that that we do. And we've also had an indirect cost increase on the salaries for the accountant. That again is not anything that we've implemented. Um she'll speak
to that in in a little bit. that 8,625 for the account did not had not shown up in the budget in previous years. Um that was something that was just been added in that 2026 request column. And you also notice in other
portions of the budget that there's some light items that have blanks in them. Um, there's long been a discussion about indirect costs, whatever they are, associated with an enterprise fund. And you can see on the second page that
there was a series of costs that are basically outside of Dana and my control or influence that was listed under direct costs. And that's why you see some blanks in some other places that don't normally in the past, right, have
had blanks. fringe benefits, maintenance employees, Medicare, those are blank and we've uh incurred now we're separating out um appears we're separate separating out a plan for indirect costs on the operation um which has been a discussion
for some years with the golf committee and Steve and myself as well as the town admins that have come through um and it's always been our vision and viewpoint. let us get to the finish line, pay off the bond, and then of course this is the town's entity. So, at
some point, there will probably be some some uh flexibility with regards to what is incurred and what isn't incurred, but an indirect cost. It's my understanding that's an optional um cost put on by the town to the
enterprise fund. So, we're trying to uh decipher what what are the the basis of the costs, what is the breakdown of the cost, and how are they applied to the golf course. I think as we progress and grow and develop the program um it
shouldn't be a catchall that you can kind of just you know I mean if you need some some um some space on the general fund to you know incur for the golf course the enterprise fund to incur additional uh indirect costs unnecessarily. if they're
valid and you know they need to be done then so be it by all means it's a town entity but it should be transparent should be an open lines of communication we should all understand how it's being applied and for what reasons and then everybody can kind of decipher and agree um where those there's always been
discussion on indirect cost but you know I'm pretty good at math and alls I would ask is that I have no problem with indirect cost obviously as part of the process But somebody explained to me the process through which they're calculated. So when I look at indirect
costs, I can determine if it may have gone up substantially or may be insufficient or so on and at least pass comment on it. Um, we've never and I don't think the golf committee has ever said that they're not um, you know, in
favor of bearing indirect cost burdens, but we have never had them identified exactly and figured out mathematically and that math shown to us. So, we understand the process, right? We usually submit our we discuss our budget. Steve and I come to our
numbers. We sit down with the golf committee committee. We review those numbers, maybe make some adjustments, and then we submit them um for uh for approval to the golf committee. And that's that. And then we submit them to um you guys, you authorize them and then
we submit them to the town hall where sometimes uh upon coming to know our numbers and what our budget is when the mun report is printed, they're a little bit different than what was submitted. So, um all we're looking for is, you know, upfront transparency. let us know what we're dealing with and so we can
cuz unlike the school department or any other entity within the town fire police, this is a business and we're trying to operate it like a business. So you can't have, you know, surprises. You got to know what you're dealing with so that you can make the appropriate
decisions to move forward and adjust and pivot when you need to. That's awesome. You just you just made a good comment um that it's operating as a business. And so from my perspective, so in the private sector when you're running a business, you're carrying all these
expenses in your budget. Health insurance, you're going to pay for that for for employees. Unemployment, um we're carrying all that um not pension in the private sector. Well, we've always had health insurance and and unemployment. Those are a factor of the
budget, right? So there's been some that have been added. Medicare was added last year at a certain percentage of total payroll. My question is our Medicare expense goes up somewhat. Probably not significantly by the addition of, you know, the additional
$8,600. So you're accounting. So your question is you want to see like but you want to see a I just don't know how that means. I'm not I think I'm in favor of of bearing my burden. Sure. I just don't know how it's calculated. I mean, we've had we've had numbers thrown at us as
big as $100,000 to $200,000. And I'd say, uh, okay. uh please explain that because you can't walk into a budget that's calculated based on needs and then throw another $200,000 on top of it and say have a
nice day or throw $200 to $100,000 on it and reduce those other areas that have a direct impact on your capability to generate revenue. Right? And what's how it's going to come down to it is let's say the business isn't as successful due to weather what or a turn in the the
economy and we go into a recession. We we usually sit down and if the if the economy turns and we're strapped, we have to go through our line items and cut stuff. But if we're going to continue to add in direct cost that we can't touch, well now you're just kind of you know I mean it's it you could
head into a tricky situation. The easy answer to the question is we just need to understand how and now and now you're feeling the pain of what it's like to run a private business. Well, I got to be honest with you. The pain of running a municipality is actually more than running a private because there are so many rules and
regulations and restrictions that if you're a private business and you're making money, you can use that capital and build your business in other areas and other ways if you needed to. In a municipality, you can you this is these are your line items. this is how you operate. If it's a successful year and
your food and beverage are off the charts, you can't spend any more than what you got. And on the flip side of it, if if it's not going so well, I mean, you can cut back, but it it's um it's a little bit trickier than you think. David, David, you want to add something? I just wanted to say from my perspective
as as a chairman of the committee, I've I've never been averse to what I call like direct indirects, meaning an actual cost that the town had to bear on behalf of the golf course cost, right? So Medicare tax is new, but it's a cost. It's 1.45% of your payroll. It's a fixed
percentage. You know, health insurance, okay, if somebody on the golf course worker takes health insurance, you have to come back, but it shouldn't be in there if nobody's taking it. I guess that's the whole point. So the inappropriately attributed to the enterprise fund, wouldn't that be a
whole another issue? And then my other thing is this, like this new one coming out of nowhere, 8,600 bucks to the accountant to help offset that salary. I mean, this is an attempt to bring in setting a new precedent, putting something new in there. The accountant is going to exist whether or not the
golf course exists. So that's where I look at this. The golf course does not affect the town account's office or the town accountant's salary. So why are we all of a sudden out of nowhere having $8,600 attributed to the golf course for the town? I'll be glad to I'll be glad.
You can be glad. There's never been a discussion at all with the golf committee about incurring any cost, not direct costs to the operation. I'll be glad to uh uh let them pay for accounting services and a private
accountant provided a we contract with it and every s and have it not go through our accounting office. And I'm sure just for an accountant to walk through the door, a
CPA would before he even did any computation would cost quite a bit more than the accountants services that we do and everything. Well, I don't think like how are they how are these numbers
derived? I guess right. I guess my what I was thinking is you both were talking that um it doesn't appear that there's an indirect cost agreement. Is that fair enough to say that's the beginning and once you have an indirect cost agreement you
tell more than how are they calculated? I mean, I can sit here and tell you exactly how I calculated my pesticide budget, my fertility budget, my employee budget, every other item on this sheet because and and again, every you know,
department may be different. Um, private enterprise may be different, but you know, speaking experience in schools where we take indirect cost, it's heavily regulated. um we'll take it from grants and the school lunch fund, but there are rules and there's a process
and how it's applied. So for for example, so I'm not sure if that is applicable to the golf fund. Well, it isn't it isn't under the law, you know, cuz your regulations very different. But for example,
one individual 8,132,88 for health insurance. Another individual 23,34211. These are the costs to the town. Another individual 8,13288 for a total of
39,57. So this is this is golf employees on health insurance. So I mean I I think premiums without what Jamie someone said that the premiums for Are you talking claims? No, I'm saying that's what the
town has to pay for each one of those individuals over $30,000. Yeah. How many are you getting insurance? 33 people. Yeah, remember we pay 60 in my department who's getting insurance
remember singles in one family I believe it's 60 we get uh 60% cost so I think the annual cost if if I'm hearing correctly that the question or the you know concern wasn't such that
okay you're paying for the employees health insurance because they are an employee of the golf department or golf I think the concern was more how is that derived? Maybe not so much the health insurance but some of the other costs perhaps if you know
like how is it PNC insurance we went to the providers they gave us the division you will see uh coming in the sewer and water are the same they're getting
charged that well again the question was I mean yes we have people who take health insurance and we pay for health insurance and we've always paid for this being a fringe benefits line item for there's only been a few people who've actually taken it. I mean 75% of my
staff are retired of the remaining 25% high school students in one area just being split out. No, it's the exact cost. I can see that
if the ex the exact cost and it's the exact cost. Yeah. I mean, everybody has health insurance. For example, the uh liability for liquor cost $4,900. I mean, because they're selling beer, right? That's on top of And you're not
selling beer in the town hall. So, obviously that No, but that's on top of everything. Everything was broken up. Maybe that's an angle. I just, you know, in that in regards to because we don't really need to discuss a dead horse much longer in regards to indirect cost. If
we simply had a an explanation of how they were calculated would make the understanding of the process significantly easier. I mean I find it hard to believe that our insurance costs who can provide that to them. I I well first of all I'll have to ask if it's
going to be the policy of the board of selectment to provide to anybody that if it's we provide to one we have to provide to all and so I'll just have to ask them but as you can see I can go
right down the list they can't just say you can't just say that person A costs this much because they have this coverage person B cost No, I wouldn't be able to do that because of HIPPA. Yes, he's right about that. HIPPA doesn't apply to non-medical
professional insurance. It does for the insurance have a name attached to I don't know. My wife's been in the insurance business for 45 years and she went a b three times, you know, whatever equals something like that, I guess. I mean, how much is it up this year that
this is like No, it's um it's just the the the treasurer went up a little bit and it's gone up. If you look back uh to 2022 was 4,800 and now it's 8,500 and then you have your salary for your accountant at 80.
I do understand the treasurer because I you know you probably bring in a lot of cash or a lot of deposit so it's taking up a chunk more than we do. No, but you bring it in and we have to spend time. No, I process it. I'm the nightly closer, so No, but you bring it
in and then it has to be redone in You turn it over to the treasur's office. And and for example, even ordering the books for the passes goes through the treasur's office. Um, no, I order them.
She get I I go I order them, I pick them up, I deliver them, and she counts them. Yeah, which which is the way I want it because I want to ensure the inventory of I bring in the closed box. I go, these are the books we just bought. When I come and get them, you will account
for the inventory of them as I take them and sign them up. All right. So, you made a good point. You said you don't have a bookkeeper. So, that's a cost that you're not acrewing. So, the town's taking care of that. No, I'm This is what I'm saying. I do the bookkeeping and give them all the finished paperwork at the end of the night and then they
take it and put it themselves. All right. So, they still have to do a service with it at that point. Sure. You're not operating a business. I'm not. You're operating an enterprise fund
in the public sector. So I guess you know anyhow we I guess the general format of the discussion or the reasoning for the discussion is just to be transparent um let us you know manage the business give us identify
where the indirect costs are what they're what they're going to be and help us help you. So how how much I guess what's helpful for us to know is how much did they change from last year to this year? like what was the the change cuz it's a little difficult
because I think they're in some areas maybe and not others. Yeah, there's 53,000 and change. You can see French benefits and Medicare. Uh and there is some other places that
insurance was 32,000 3587. So we're looking at 80 something. I got a question. So I brought it up there and put it transparent this year. What indirect costs did they have last
year and what's the difference the increase in indirect cost this year? Well, I'm just saying last year uh it was around 89 87,000 total of the direct cost that they
carried last year. Yeah. So now it's 9. It might be more. It could be a little bit more. I'd have to look at it. All right. So it's gone up about five $6,000 seven year to year
plus the accountant. Okay. So 15. Yes. Well, and you also it this is also the the the preliminary, right? As soon as you open the door to indirect cost, then once the door is cracked, every year
it's going to creep. So we're just trying to nip this in the bud, come to an understanding. And so I mean, we can discuss it. I don't know why it's unreasonable to ask for an articulation or to say that with the ball. Well, first of all, first of
all, that language of nipping it in the bud when you consider you work for the board of selectment is a wrong way to say it. We're spending a lot of time on the budget that we don't nip it in the butt
as far as to address the fact that it's not being addressed. That's all the communication portion of it. Obviously, it's going to incur. Uh we just said we we understand that it's going to take place. We just want open lines of communication. That's all. All right. So, look, I just want to say a couple
more things on this. So, you already were aware of the indirect costs, most of them from last year anyway, correct? So, you you expected all those back again and there was a couple more that were added. Um was it communicated to you the best way? Maybe it wasn't and that could be something that could
multiple times. So I don't know have it in writing uh whatever needs to be done. So there's clarification. Well, it's very easy. We could take it out of the enterprise that kind of stuff. Now the other thing I want general fund Jamie the just the other thing I want to add with this is I
you know I believe look this you know how how the whole town is struggling. Yes. Oh absolutely. I get it. And even when the first time I discussed it with Jamie I was like I understand. So, you know, by you guys taking this on, it helps it helps ease some of the burden
and it's appreciated. It's the town's money and nobody and nobody said that they were against indirect cost. Correct. We started I started the budget process back in December. Alls I need is a note that says, "Hey, Steve, these are the indirect costs. We anticipate them
probably going up by this percentage." The reason I say that is no, I have no control over it. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. But at some point we have to come to a decision about how we're going to handle rate increases for the next year if we're going to have
them in order to maintain our budget and have a profit. So we need to know in those indirect costs and obviously health insurance you can't because they don't do it until bloody. So I think in Jamie's defense he doesn't I mean he has a a vague idea in December what he's
looking at for cost. So I don't think like giving you numbers in December when you're starting your budget and and to his credit to his credit he did a hell of a job with the health insurance and uh just so that everyone understands
this is an enterprise fund in the public sector. If you take money from the general fund to put this from the red to the black, do will
sit there and say it cannot be an enterprise fund anymore. Right? If you make profit like they say that goes beyond a certain
percentage then do says you can no longer have it as an enterprise fund. An enterprise fund is pretty much supposed to be a wash. It pays for
All right. That's what the enterprise fund is statutoily. You can make some money to put it in reserve. Mhm. But you can't make an exorbitant profit.
Yeah. The enterprise fund to my understanding is to generate funds that support itself and to keep itself going. Correct. And that's what that's why we spend the funds at certain amounts of time. Right. And it doesn't come out of taxation because Yeah. Yeah. And again,
covering our portion, I've said this all along, we've got no argument with that. Just need to have an idea of what it is and when it's coming and how it I agree because we, let's put it this way, we already instituted you insurance for your employees. You don't just accept the number from the insurance people. We
already instituted the rates. want to know that too. Maybe I would sit there and venture to just say, you know what, whatever your indirect costs are for this year, just put me on that for at least next year and then go from there. Yeah, because I
don't think he even has I mean, he has an idea. So are they, but he's not going to have a final number that soon. I think if it's later on in the season, again, it's adding new ones from year to year, which was the bigger thing for me, right? We obviously knew the ones that had been there. you expect an increase in that. So when you add two brand new
ones that no one ever told us was even coming down the line till you get the Excel spreadsheet that kind of catches us I think. Yeah. Right. So I think that should be communicated uh 100%. You guys should have been aware of that. Um, now do they know the percent like the cut
off as far as you cuz you made a a comment about an enterprise fund can only generate so much above a certain for for example one of the prior communities I was in. We had an enterprise fund. It was the ambulance
enterprise fund. We lost money because they had four exits to cover on a very accidentprone highway. And do let
us take care of the deficit for a couple years. Then they came in and they said, "It's no longer a enterprise fund. It's a reserve fund."
All right. And we had another enterprise fund that was making quite a bit of money and they had a very large reserve and they said, "You
either spend that reserve or use it for capital improvements or reduce your rates. Okay. But I mean, my question is they should know. We don't know. It's up to
the do when they analyze it. All right. So, let's let's say they made $100,000 in profit and do says, "Well, you went you made way too much." What do they have to spend? They have to either then spend it on capital improvement. Okay, so there you go guys. So if you make too
much money, you have to buy more equipment. Do they have an idea what they're breaking even the thing or or or it it can return to the uh general fund? It can return to How can it return to the general fund if it never came from there? It it can
return if you have a profit. it can return to any stabilization funds through the town meeting process. So now you know it's I'm not going to complicate the process but by knowing
what he just mentioned and answering your question about what the percentage is then you could figure at some point gez well if we're going to make this much of a percentage and somebody over there in town in another department needs a few extra bucks and we can put
it back in their direction. Why not? But you but we don't know those two parameters. So you could never No, because most enterprise funds are operated as trying to keep it where
break even it's breaking even plus a little bit. Yeah, I know in a perfect I mean that's it might not be that might be impossible to predict and do. Welcome to government. I mean that's like stupid. No wonder government does the state. Exactly. That's stupid. Who comes
up with these dumb calculations really? Any geniuses up there invol Well, they'd rather not They'd rather not see, you know, I'm kind of an enterprise fund as a department. They'd rather see an
enterprise. We should ceing, but they'd rather see an enterprise fund as a town, so to speak, where the state wouldn't have to give us any local aid and we would be able to operate
totally. That's what look at what they're doing with the education sector. They keep shrinking what the state's giving us, telling us that the towns are going to have to contribute more and more. So,
the other thing is we're going to run into this issue once the bond is paid off. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Then we're going to roll into another bond probably, right? Maybe not right away, right? No, but then you're going to then you're going to have to then you're
going to have to figure your rates and the overage and sit with do and have do determine what you can do to transfer the money for let's say the capital needs of the town
which we've always discussed too. I mean, when we get to that point where the bond is paid and if there is significant profit, by by all means, if if we're above the ceiling, it's the town's money. So, you know, if if we're taking care of the course, but also keep
in mind though, right, cuz Steve will throw throw a number at you with the irrigation that's going to be 5 years away. 1.5 million. It's coming. If you come and attack the enterprise fund and pull it out before it, you know what I mean? before it's time for you,
you have to protect the asset. You guys have your own stabilization fund. We have what they call retained earnings, contingency funds or whatever. They have they have a reserve they have retained uh they have in effect
what normally would be called a capital reserve in that but it's not called. You made a good point. I mean with the irrigation I mean oh you've got that that would be a major expense. So once they get that bond paid
off if they're make if they can put some extra money aside in case there's an emergency I think that's probably a good idea because you can't just let the golf course go. I mean this is an investment long-term investment in the town. Correct. It's not only is it going to be that
you're going to have to look at down the road. If you build a clubhouse, you're going to have to look at the maintenance of that clubhouse beyond the maintenance of Steve's end of the
course. You're going to have to look at do you expand the services on that land? Do you build tennis courts? That's I think that's a conversation for the date. No, but I mean all that is part of it running an enterprise fund, right?
Well, it's not so much part of it running an enterprise fund. What you need to what you need to have and you haven't had initially here is you need to have a long-term vision. You need to have a master plan pulling you forward
and not not you know and you should have your master plan for the golf course and as it and and fit that in with what the town because I understand the town's reviewing it master plan uh currently does the golf committee actually have
like a well that's it's it's not so much or goal well that's the thing that you have to sit down and discuss we've been basically we've been been beating our heads against the for the last 20ome years making trying to make money and trying to get to the point now where
we're not doing too bad. Two years we have the bond paid off. We have some money in reserve. We've been able to buy most of the equipment that we've need and we've be able been able to solve most of the problems we've had. That's the wrong question. H
the question the question is the master plan for the whole town that is part of it develop the golf yeah you can't have it disjointed how much involvement are they having in
the master plan like how is I responded to doing anything with the master plan you're asking the wrong person I am not involved with it at all you can Well, I mean, I know you ask the master player. The uh the person who's
coordinating has sent out a survey. I responded to the survey. I think they're they're they're gathering their information. And again, I mean, these are uh interesting and wellfounded things to discuss, but we're here for this. So, he wants to go home. Yeah. No,
but you know I you know and people will tell you I one of my pet peeves is wasting time because uh time is valuable and I'm my my mother said the worst thing about you son is you have absolutely no patience. I'm on the same page as you
we're on the clock here. Yes. Yes. There you go. You got to get the get the pick in. You pick in five minutes. So, if you um if we continue this down, pretty much all of our line items remain the same with a few changes in some indirect costs and we uh if you look at capital
projects right above the indirect costs, um putting that at 84 uh from uh 37 and then the principal and interest the
31521 315 and uh 315 15K and the 21K uh was this this year's payment currently that was a placeholder. Yeah. And then so our actual uh next payment is the 29512. So that's accurate and those are
pretty much you know it was a pretty straightforward budget. We probably beat it up a little bit more than we had to obviously but with good intentions. You mentioned the um capital projects line. Mhm. Uh it looks like I think you the
committee had put in for 84,000 and it's we had put in for 37,000 the same number that we had this FY2 this was um that 84,000 was
suggested okay as as an increase. Um, I don't know exactly why. I don't think it was suggested by the committee when I spoke to Jamie. Not this Jamie. I think the concept behind it is staying the same as last year. So, there's
really no no harm, no foul. Correct. Correct. I'm not sure. Is it Are we going to do 37 or 84? Well, that depends on what the board of selectment do. Gotcha. So, that's why it's 84. So, I would suggest It's a staff's
recommendation of 84 that gives more flexibility than having to go in and get certain votes on it. Well, that that's I I agree with what Jamie just said because it allow allows you more flexibility in projects that may come up
that you can, you know, there's no sense in going back to the board of selecting 15 different times because I think after after a certain number of times they get bored seeing because they have much more important things to to do. So, but we can expedite the process in some cases.
the town hall 37 though. Is that what we're going at for or go with 84 committee request? Oh, we've we've done I think that was our staff request
uh recommendation to the committee whereas the 87 was the original or 37 was the original before town hall and uh Steve and Dana
got together and talked about it. Yeah. So, right. So, so two things. One, right, with the capital, we would like to be able to just pay cash for things as needed as they arise. So, it gives a little bit more flexibility with that. Mhm. And number two, if you take what Jamie said was the placeholder for the
debt service, you know, in reality, it's it's 20 and then about 9. It's about 29,000 is lower is the actual amount that there. So, if you buy, you know, 29,000 plus the 37, you're getting pretty close to that 84. It's not I guess point it's really not like a
$50,000 difference between the two because you got about the the principal and interest the 2026 request column and capital principle and interest are incorrect. They're too high. Yeah. To the tune of about $30,000.
So bottom line is what I'm saying is you knock that down to the 295 and the 12 like it should be free that money up your operating lines up above and the difference between the 37 and the 84 isn't as dramatic as it looks to say. I know. Yeah, I get your point.
So how is that going to get recognized that way or it's as I tell you every meeting the uh warrant and the budget are the board of selectments and they will present what
they present when when they present it to again gentlemen we're just we're scraping man we're we're scraping every single budget as much as we can this is not in the operating budget Right. So it it really
is looking at it with the indirect cost which haven't been recognized before and we're just a couple of generalized lines for indirect cost in the budget. We've
broken it out for the first time and we've started to not only do it here, but you'll see as far as water and sewer, it was broken out and
we're starting to go forward where eventually once the bonds are paid off and you might end up with a do
audit. You've got everything there broken out. Mhm. And it's a lot uh it's cleaner. It's a lot cleaner, but it's a lot more advantageous to the town to
present something like that. If one do 5 10 years from now comes in and looks at it and they see it was done for multiple years. I I agree completely and we should attribute as much as we can to
the enterprise fund but to say we're not going to provide an explanation if they ask I mean if do asks they're going to be we're going to be explaining it to them. So yeah, well it's my case uh other departments don't have an explanation
from the executive. I know but we're trying you have to set your rates to achieve the financial where your financial obligations are. That's all we're saying. I mean, we're trying to plan the business and I know you say it's not a business, but we're pretending to be a business
and we've been uh going back and forth with this budget right through. I think the reaction is more in the past. They've had uh town administrators have pulled
a multi- uh uh multi hundreds of thousands of estimates on indirect costs. Yes.
without actually going through and determining the uh various costs and the uh the various categories. And if uh that reaction was
from that reaction is to people that are long gone and have uh less professionalism than the staff now. You have a question? I just one more thing to say. I know Steve wants to get
out of here, but um this I played golf my whole life. Um I play at New Beth Country Club mainly because it's no tea times and can't be here. So, but um this course is like for those people that don't golf, it is known in the area. It's like the best public course. Um
forget the fact that it's municipally owned just in general. Um, these two guys I think have been there since basically day one, right? And pretty close. It's because of you guys. Um, Steve, Danny, you guys do as good as the 17 or so people who work for me. Yeah.
But I mean, you're running it. You guys are responsible. You guys underpay for your positions and like Steve said, we do have a lot of residents that work for us and they take so much pride in this this place. M I mean and that's why we got invested in with the exception with the exception of the high school kids
that I have most of the people who work for me have been working there for 17 18 years some 19 and I'll just say I mean retired embarrassment of a building and I mean I I think that was supposed to
that's a Houdini operation right there pulled it off hope this finally gets done with the Hey the National Golf Found Foundation pulled me aside Isaac, what you two guys have accomplished here is nothing short of miraculous. Look, I've I've said this over the years
and you guys know it. Uh that place is a gem, hands down. I all I get is positive feedback from a lot of people I know that I come across who play golf. Um it's one of the best golf golf courses in the area and it's a long-term investment for our town and it's definitely going to need some kind of a
a clubhouse. Mhm. You know, we're missing revenue, too. Absolutely. because it could generate revenue. You know, I I've I've played at the the back nine in Lakeville. They have a fantastic little place there with the bar and you can sit in there and watch TV, get a nice bite to eat. I could envision
something like that for our town. Um and it's going to make some money. Yep. So, that's you got to think think along those lines. Um so, I think ultimately it's going to be a good thing for the town. Um, and you guys do a fantastic job and appreciate it. And this budget is
only it's a nominal increase. You got uh some of the other stuff we've seen. Mhm. Yeah. I I'll second that. You guys don't want to go down there. So, gentlemen, thank you for coming in
tonight. We appreciate it. And uh I missed the mark by two minutes. Sorry. I missed the mark. I've always wondered why we can't have these meetings at 5:00 in the morning. 5 in the morning, you know, especially down at the golf
course. There's nobody there. The body. I know. I hear the lawn mower when I get up. No, with the exception of the deer running by, you know, it's it's or the the coyotes, how this stuff. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming in tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. I appreciate your time. Appreciate your kind words as well. Thanks. Absolutely. That's well
well uh well earned and welld deserved. That was I don't know you guys that I've never seen a discussion with any type of school that last less than an hour. That was pretty much That was pretty clean. Well, they they they come in pretty well
I have to that fell um the principal superend. He does a superintendent. He does a uh he does a very well organized presentation. He's on the ball. Yes. Nice guy to talk to too. He is. Yep. Absolutely. Well, have a nice evening. Thanks everybody.
And also kudos to the golf committee as well. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Can't forget a great group of guys. Absolutely. Good night. Thank you. I forgot who's uh you the leazison. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Yeah. And then we got to your question, we have um Pete is on the master plan committee. So if you have any questions about, you know, plans for that, maybe they're talking about it. I don't know. I'm not They should be. I would there's a major component in all
master plans of open space and recreation. Yeah. Oh, it should be. And you know now I mean it's the definition of an enterprise fund is there are no funds coming out of taxation. Mhm.
And who's going to argue that now? I mean if somebody wants to complain about some meeting, they have the right to. There's there's nothing people don't understand it. I think people don't understand how golf is fun. It's pretty simple. It's just, you know, an
enterprise fund. They're they're covering all their own costs. It all comes from user fees. So, when I pay whatever it is to play golf there, I haven't played in a while, but um you know that go that goes to the
operation. That's pretty simple, you know, and that's kind of how we'll explain it to the town. But I don't see any major controversy at town meeting. I understand where they were coming from. It's mainly that I think there was fear
there because a prior town administrator walked in and said, "Oh, your indirect costs are 250 estimates, not actual numbers." Yeah. Look, you never want to be blindsided in something. I think you
should always have an the staff uh has been working with them all along with this. Mhm. As far as what what the indirect costs were. Last year we started the
process. This year we finished it. That's not the ca it's not the case of uh it being that different. It's just that we keep enumerating more and more
on the budget sheet what it is. I mean the biggest expense is health insurance like you know. Mhm. The second surprise to me, one unit cost is for that
building, five grand for the liquor liability. And that just from someone who's been in towns with golf courses, I warn you that
the cost will geometrically increase as you have a clubhouse with more use and more liquor sales. So the revenue hopefully well but I mean it'll
be a geometric because your liability is going to be a lot more uh just so uh with all these uh offsets or indirect cost
charges we were able to offset the insurance, pension, etc. costs where it was 332,000 and
change. It's now from the operating budget, it's now 44,000 and change. and we were able to take care of
that uh with the cuts we're looking at other than culture and recreation which has a m very minor increase as you know to keep the certification of the library.
uh human services is going to be on the town side is less than it was last year. General government very likely will be close or less right now. I've got it above
15,000 less, but that I'm cutting programs and uh public safety. Uh right now it looks like it's around $80,000 increase and that includes with
all the collective bargaining costs. Uh public parks I'm waiting on right now. We're verifying figures, but it's similar. So, I just want the committee to know
we've gone to the bone and we're chipping pieces off the bone on the town side. You've got 347,000 from old
colony and you've got until they cut 753,000 from the Aushnet schools and I'm still at around the increase is still at around
650,000. the rosiest day. I mean, it might be a little less than that, but 650,000 increase in revenue. So, we're looking at somewhere around 200,000 for the joint
accounts and the town side where we're almost in negative numbers in every category. So education is we're still contributing to what was it a couple hundred to stabilization this
year. You can't use free cash. No, I mean we're contributing to the stabilization in this budget, right? Didn't you bring not from the operating budget? Free cash to to fund the operational budget. that free cash go into stabilization can't just go towards
the operational budget. Um because then we have to have a whole payback plan with through do um and how does every other town use stabilization fund in their operating budget? They don't use stabilization. They might use free cash,
but it's very unlikely that they use free cash because 10 years ago you could, 5 years ago you could. Now do is coming down on it. That's for but for
example up until recently you'd put your police cruisers in your operating budget. Now more and more towns are going back to buying them from free cash as a capital item and keeping them longer
than 3 years. And the majority of your free cash is because we haven't filled positions and those positions are going away in this budget. So you will not
get so you had funded but unfilled positions contributing to the free cash. You won't have that anymore. But we also have articles to fund as well, which is that's what that free cash is going to be utilized for.
Um, at the end of the day, there's not going to be OP. Uh, you're contributing to that from free. Is that is that 100 into oped or 50? Well, uh, when I got here, you were at about 2
to 3%. and you're going to be up 8 to 10% of your OPED liability, but you have I can't give you an exact figure because you're we haven't gone out and had it
uh specifically determined in the last couple of years, but you know, you're you've got a very large liability in that And every time
your retirey health insurance goes up, your OPED goes up. Uh you've you've got you used a lot of the infrastructure stabilization for Sloum Street. You're
going to have to put some of that back. You've got four to five years from now, you've got a huge bubble of teachers retiring. So, you're going to have to put more and
more money in your compensated absence stabilization fund because they're talking hundreds of thousands at that
point with I I think they said and this is uh 20 plus to 30 potentially. And all of that comes out of free cash. And then you have your capital
items. You've got to rewrite your chart of accounts cuz it's not MIAS compatible. You got to buy two police cruisers. Uh, you've got to update the rest of the
COA HVAC system and get that all done to answer the question you were going to ask. I'm not going there, Jamie. I'm not going there. But that's your shelter.
Yep. Is this the the um engine still on the Uhhuh. the fire engine still on the Is that getting Well, we got to figure out how to do that. Uh, you
know, that's a discussion on how you pay for it, how you order it, similar to how we had to do the ambulances where you authorize the borrowing just to get
in the queue to get it. At least a fire engine doesn't take 3 years from the time you order it to get it like an ambulance. ambulances have more stuff doing. You've got an awful lot of capital expenses coming down the
pipe. Well, this is why, you know, we have to be fiscally conservative, which we were then, but now it's even like, you know, ultra fiscally conservative. Uh, and again, it's I'll go back to it's it part
of it's all the irresponsible spending at the state level. Um just well as I told you before the 2 and 1/2 your tax levy is really 2
and 1/2 3% depending on new growth. Your local receipts have been going up 5%. Your state aid has in some years is as low as half a percent increase. Mhm. And
has never gone higher than 1 and a half%. It doesn't that's where it seriously is a detriment. And like I
started talking with Kristen, the fact that Desi wants to bring the town contribute contribution higher and higher and
higher and the state contribution less and less and less for education doesn't help the balance. Let's shoot. Mm- Thank God. Look, thank God we have Proposition 2 and a half cuz if we
didn't I mean, just imagine what this governor would do and put on the backs of the taxpayers and how bad it would be. I mean, she's already given the authority for municipalities to raise excise tax at their discretion if they want, you know? I mean, it's just like just keep
taxing people, you know. Well, I I'm a antique and I actually remember when prior to two and a
half and then I remember two and a half and I remember having to lay off half of your workforce. I was governing king, wasn't it? Better time. A little before. Yeah.
What were you What were we talking 70s? Yeah. Early 80s. 70. So late '7s. Late 60s7s. All right. I was I was thinking of, you know, how bad inflation was when Jimmy Carter was president. I mean, you you remember that. Yeah. Yeah. But I
also uh I also uh and and then when two and a half came in, we didn't have uh binding arbitration or the jail and see for police and fire and that came in after
that. And uh the I'm really antique because I remember when the cities and towns ran the welfare system and that changed
in 196869 when Kevin White was elected mayor of the city of Boston and wouldn't give up his secretary of state's job until the legislature took welfare away from the
cities and town and put it with the state. Okay, I think we can wrap this up. That's a history lesson we didn't need. Bottom line, Massachusetts needs a Doge department desperately. That would be
fun. Uh, does anybody have any old business to discuss? No. Any new business? Nope. You're you're holding a uh meeting on the 29th. I'm going to get to that right now. Uh right after we approve these minutes. So, we
have two sets of minutes to approve uh from September 4th, 2024. Uh, in attendance was myself, uh, Sue Delgado, Pete Penoy, Eric Chu, Kristen Flynn, Eric McGlin, and Bob St. Gene. Do I have a motion? Motion. Second. All in favor?
I. Uh, next set of minutes is from February 12th, 2025. Hold on. Pulling it up here. There we go. Uh, in attendance was myself, uh, Sue Delgado, Phil Adams, Pete Penoi, Eric
Chu, Kristen F. There a motion. Motion. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. Minutes are approved. Uh, to Jamie's point, next meeting Dave. Incorrect. I didn't think we had a time machine that we could go back in time. Right. So, the next
meeting, it's listed the 15th. Yeah. So, next meeting day is um is next Tuesday. So, it's not on a Wednesday. It's next Tuesday, April 29th at 6:00 p.m., not 7:00 p.m. Um, and it's and we're meeting at the police station. So, just everybody make note of that. Mhm. Don't
come here on Wednesday at 7:00. Um, you got a busy week next week. So, all our only hearing is going to be with our school department and that's it. Um, so we have all the information has been emailed to us to review between now and
when we meet. So, I think just everybody have, you know, their questions that they want answered. Um, and that way we're not, you know, we're not there for 3 hours. That's about it. Motion to adjurnn.
Second. All in favor? I. We are adjourned. Heat. Heat.