gentlemen do I have a motion to open the meeting second all right do I have a second all in favor very good gentlemen tonight we have raber from Catalyst
Architects and uh we're going to open up the floor just like to keep this um you know kind of informal and Kurt if you'd like to start and uh give us some ideas we did speak a couple weeks ago briefly
gave you a uh an idea of what we determined from a couple of meetings we uh put together two schemes uh one with the GOL clubhous is where it
is today and one where it is upon the pl GRE and we also mentioned a budget of around three to $3.5 million that's what we' come up with so right and you mentioned that on the phone um and so I use some of the talking points you you
you and I spoke about briefly to kind of put this memo kind of discussion points um in the uh sort of as an agenda really for tonight um and anytime people want
to jump in or ask a question that's fine um we can uh sort of fold in questions and answers along the way um what you looking at is a actually a cad file over a satellite image and it's actually
topography for most of the Town um but oops zooming in in particular at the the existing Clubhouse here in the center with the tent um practice green practice range parking lot but in
particular we're thinking um about these two areas more and more and the red rectangles represent in the center over the clubhouse a uh 50 by 100 box or 5,000
foot building just to give everybody a sense of relationship of [Music] a we also you talked about maybe 5,000 is too big for that budget maybe it should be 3500 um so the clubhouse doesn't have to
be as big as the red box um but as we enter into the design and kind of figure out the program maybe it will get a little bigger than 3500 ft it certainly fits there um there is some grade changes as you can see in the Contours the existing double wi trailer Pro Shop
and bathroom structure sits on a bit of a hill um and then the tent is lower uh on a paved Pavilion tent area U but there's plenty of room there for the building circulation staging of
carts um and then um as you know there's some manholes and I believe the septic components are in the arrival Circle um the second rectangle is a little bit smaller and
that's uh um 50 by 90 or 4,500 Square ft we figure that's about the minimum size for 80 carts in a new structure if it were to be there or anywhere just set it there just to again show relative size to the
existing fenced in gravel golf cart pen if you will um so then we've been thinking is it one building or is it two um there's certainly um some benefits for that but um for each of those ideas
um when I was here last time and you know initially walking on the the golf course property for the first time with Dana we wondered is it possible or even preferred to think about the building moving deeper into the golf
course um and there might be more views of more of the golf Halles which is certainly advantageous for like a 19 to bar or a dining room that has a you know a really beautiful view of the golf course um the farther the building moves
away from the parking the more of our budget is going to be spent bringing the parking and the cart paths and the arrival closer to the building so thinking about that I just don't think that makes a lot of sense to kind of extend the parking lot into the golf
course more and utilities the water everything else um so I like the idea of of having the building here um in the center but it could move back and be
behind the existing building um so that the existing structure can stay in place and operate the golf course while the new building is being built there's plenty of room for the to use this as maybe a lay down area or a contractor's area just logistically how do we build a
building right behind the El um um so I think it works uh maybe there's some Vista clearing through the trees that provide that view we're looking for from the dining Pavilion uh the dining area
but um great opportunities all in this area without moving the building too far the other solution of course is the building goes right on top of the old Clubhouse we rent another small rental trailer as an office in a temporary grow
shop for the time where the club just won't have any temporary toilets so we're spending a little budget there as well um so there's a balance but I think as we site the building um for one reason or another
will'll be able to build the either temporary conditions or lack of those into the budget um so uh I know you've met a couple times um and this committee's rule is to kind of right siiz the building and
right siize the budget and as I understand you're going to make a recommendation back to Dave wi's board and they're going to then refer it to the board of Selectmen that's right right um certainly we'll be happy to be
participant in sort of presentation to the golf committee and then to the board of select um and the goals that you adopted as you mentioned at the leag was you know try to right siize the project at 3.5 million um so that kind of I go
deeper into that in the next but bullet point but um I think that's possible and um but we'll have to be really careful uh we're looking at some you know um other projects that
are no longer 250 or 300 a foot or we 350 we looking at some housing projects that are 400 a foot we're looking at a potential um addition to a fire station that's more like 800 foot
um so it's going to be hard I think the clubhouse building um could be four 450 a foot it certainly could be five if we wanted to but we have to be really careful really PR Frugal in order to stay under that
3.5 million budget but I think that's a great goal um and um then the study phase I'll be meeting with uh Tim garish our landscape consultant and we'll be coming up with
two schemes um a one building scheme and a two- building scheme and then my office will develop some budgets for each of those and that will include a potential Construction contract budget construction cost budget and an overall project cost with soft
costs for design and Bing and construction materials testings and other things that the committee would need to buy along the way before a rivet gotting um so all in Project budget um
so excuse me yeah so putting it up where the the practice putting green is pushing the limits of that $3.5 million budget is that what sounds that's what I'm taking away from it might be one of the things that we were
talking about my car Tod the further we stretch the building away from the parking lot the more we've got to bring the parking lot path for drop off the clubs um if you need more parking and maybe that is a reason to push it deeper into the golf course property um the
other thought we had was displacing the practice green and rebuilding it somewhere else would probably also have to come out of our budget and what's the cost of that and then I don't really have a lot of expertise there we'd have to ask your greens keeper what would it take to
build a new practice green and where would it Go B par on that right down you yes Steve said that before okay um I think his idea was if we did move it back the the practice screen he would be looking towards moving it uh where the
current trailer is and then we're possibly discussing I mean this is outside the scope of this project but making a practice area on the side of that towards the range and making it on full on practice facility driving range
and pting B what was what was his ballpark number on on rebuilding a bu green 50 to 80 you got some irrigation 80 side if you said 50 to 80 yeah no I would I would tend to you
75,000 and that's and that's done by a professional company is not done by Sten his crew it would be done by like a crew that would come come in and and be sh yeah exactly okay what's nice about that is you have
the practice facilities next to one another the putting green the driving range you know they kind of go hand in hand that's a perk of putting it on the putting the current putting green now sure that that would allow you to
differentiate yourself from all of the competitors in the region cuz nobody has a full-on practice facility right okay D would that be something that you guys would find advantageous absolutely Steve and I have talked about that for
at least a decade I mean but it's been a long road to get here but even if we didn't do it at this juncture in in your minds you should be thinking that is the direction that you probably want to be migrating towards you mentioned a drop off area
you know I know we don't really need to discuss it now but a drop off are it could actually go around the current Clubhouse and back around even though that current Clubhouse will be gone um but even the putting green can go where the tent is or right yeah you
have plenty plenty of workable space that you've seen all with this aial there a lot of space to to work with and if you could actually turn that shape of the yes it was yeah so it's op up
have you discussed I know I came in a little bit late I was tied up at another meeting have you discussed our current footprint the existence of our current footprint and how the the new con conceptual plan should tie with the
approximation size with our current footprint yeah existing building is just about 2,000 ft this this red rectangle represents a 50 by 100 bucks so 5,000 ft floor plan so my question I guess do you
consider just the trailer as your current footprint no I would include your tent as part of your current footprint you know so that's your major dining facility MH um so could maybe could you elaborate on that because I
there seems to be some some confusion I think with multiple levels of authority that are interested in this project that probably don't understand um you know what is our conceivable current footprint what does it entail and then
what would a new footprint um what would it include and how how would it match comparatively to your existing footprint um was your your existing building structure has the Pro Shop the hallway kitchen bar your storage room
and basically the bathrooms that's about it and then the deck is sort of your Gathering space that's attached to your building but your true Gathering space is is the 10 which is you know over 3,000 squ ft M so do you also consider
the cop storage is that part of your current footprint or not no I was I think you missed that this other rectangle here is slightly smaller and I that's a 4500 ft for um 50 by 90 and that's about the right area to stack
eight rows of 10 carts each so 80 carts so I wanted to show that relative to the current position so the two areas are relatively the same size and can be stacked M um and there's some efficiency in that but there's also extras that
come with that which I mentioned later in my memo um the bigger heavier building you know introduces a floor level and it's a separation between assembly and S1 storage use in the building code so we have fire rated but
we're also over 7500 ft so we're into Sprinklers and then if we have staff you going up and down do we need a lift I don't think we do I think we would design the building with esses out of the building um to grade from the upper
level and no in uh most stairwells or no elevators in between the two uses um just to kind of again save money on things we really don't need um because the carts would be in basement cart storage cart maintenance other things would be down there the clubhouse
activities would be about uh but then we we intend to kind of refine two schemes with a one building footprint with the stat program and a two- building scheme um we think that the cart Barn can be a very agricultural low tech building um
at much lower cost um because we have a slab it could be a pole bar um and it's you know we will have water seasonally for washing carts but that's about it for plumbing um and then it's going to have the electrical upgrade for the
charging of the carts um also nice generous roof which could be covered with solar um in the one building scheme you have less foundation and less roof than the two building scheme um but the building gets more complex uh so I think
there's going to be a balance uh pros and cons for each one which will hopefully one will fall out a little less expensive um to help us stay at that 3.5 budget and 3.5 million is I assume an
all number inclusive of design permitting procurement and construction and a contingency almost so the numbers that I mentioned in my outline today was just you know thinking about yesterday I like okay if we take the 3.5 we just take 20%
off the top for design fees Z engineering testing um a in a contingency fund that reduces the 3.5 to 2.8 how do you spend 2.8 to build the best building or buildings
again uh and we might find that the building gets smaller than we want to stay under that number and it might be a reason to try to stretch the budget to reach to 4 million um I think as a consensus the group
agreed somewhere between 3500 and 4,000 sare ft for the building of enclosed conditioned space I think that makes sense you still could have with it a a lawn area or a deck
area which you could put a seasonal tent on to drive occupancy for those big event days if you found if we find that the 3500t building does doesn't give you the number of seats that you find going to have when we add the bathrooms and the kitchen and the you know the bar
storage the food storage um right Pro Shop Pro Storage some office space which is desperately needed um all of a sudden 3500 ft is going to be tght right it's pric
um so where oh we were talking about um you know this 5,000 ft building being out here on the practice area certainly can happen um and you know maybe maybe it it kind of swings out to uh um Still
Still rectangular but um slightly different shape maybe it's 60 by 80 or something like that but it'll fit out there [Music] um if pursuing sort of
the you know moving to build the clubhouse further into the golf course is you know a desire we're happy to to kind of look at that um I think talking with Tim garish you know getting the flow to and from the clubhouse making sure there's enough sort of cart path
whip for carts coming and going at the turn and it's going to be very busy right there in front of the clubhouse all time um but you know that's a good thing I I I think we should go by two paths you should where the this first option is here where the building is
over the where the tent is and then the second option which we know is going to be more expensive to put it on with a current practice screen and relocating a practice screen and irrigation and all that that's that's going to eat away he's what I'm hearing is that 3.5 million is not a lot of money to do this
project if we're going to build a cart barn and move whereever practice so we should get two two two designs but at some point unless we get more money right right right now it's right now we're the number we we've put out is 3.5
million and you know when you look at the break down here it looks like it's 3 million call it 3 million to do what his plan is on the last two bullets and then we got 20% we taken off the top for design fees and then the contingency plan I have a question about drainage
will we have to add drainage because we're adding we're adding more square footage of impervious like roof deck yeah they come off the roof can be you know collected right at the G Bel leaders and
taken to a drainage sale or U could be piped into Chambers hopefully we can find a way to get into some open space where we can create a a Swale that the roof drainage could flow into pre-treat and and and you know pool if it has to
and then infiltrate so would that be part of the 20% no no that would be part of the building yeah um and one thing I didn't mention but it just came to my mind is that you you could do these two buildings at a separate time but it's certainly much more efficient and less
costly to build them together as one contract even if they're two buildings um because the procurement process takes time the oversight of construction can be uh done and most importantly the general conditions that you'll be paying the general
contractor is shorter um by half um than it would be for building the two build um and the the clubhouse might take 10 months to build and the cart bar might only take four so if they start them together the car bar could come online
much sooner than everything else if the electric is ready and you every sourer can could be ready you mentioned a pole building what is that a pole building is sort of like a some people called them a building or um but it's like an
industrial Bay building and have a they can have a strip Foundation or a frost wall Foundation but they can also have peer foundations so at every 8 ft you drill in a pre-cast hun here and it has a saddle on the top
and then you have a like a triple 2x6 or triple 2x8 columns every 6 to 8 ft around the building and they support larger trusses and perins and in the cart bur you won't have any drywall finish no paint it's steel candle skin
yep um what a steel building steel building it will it should have a slab sure um and um we'll have a little area for wash down we'll have um the nice thing about those wooden pole buildings is that they come with a wooden truss
than a big Cathedral roof we want that wooden truss inexpensive roof because that's where our treasers are going to rest they're they're going so we want a low roof low pitch um or it could be low slope but it could still be shamed um
and it can look just like a low on story Barn um and we might have three to four o doors on one end and same at the other end so that carts every day can be driven in in the same order that they're used in plugged into their Chargers and
some of the new Chargers are built into the golf carts now I operate a facility where we have a bunch of electric carts and they literally plug in 110 and there's not a charger hanging in the CE anymore so depending on which direction they go with carts we would want to know that you've been talking with a vendor
about certain type of Fleet so yeah I haven't had any feedback as of yet th spot yeah but you know the ceiling in these spes only need to be about 8 ft short [Applause] yeah and it can be it can be in the
basement another clubhous we've done that a couple times would it be two different contractors to build those two different buildings it could be um some of the general contractors that would bid on a three and a or $3 million project would probably hire a sub that
only does that yeah that's I fig yeah thank you and they might they'll do the foundation and then the sub will arrive and the building they'll go up and it'll be weather tight and then the same electrician will do boths okay do you have any ballpark IDE I know
this is a very early stage but how much it would cost how much more it would cost to put the club house kind of where we want it as opposed to where the tent is no I guess I don't have that answer um I guess I was kind of looking to see
how how much extra it would cost like in general like not I guess it kind of depends on does the project include making all the improvements in that area where the tent and the clubhouse are now um if it's the putting green and it's
75,000 or if it's if it's more then maybe it's comes from a different Capital you know the practice area project potentially could come out of a different budget I don't know wish thinking maybe
um question um demolition of the existing that's going to come out of this budget too yes okay yeah um it shouldn't be much I this weekend blow over on it own
care um you uh you talked about the stack uh scheme or the parts from underneath would that be feasible also where the existing clubhouses and not up on the hill is that a or go I think the
stack is more feasible in this in the kind of the tent location because it's low and um the arrival can happen um right right where the deck is behind the cart behind the clubhouse now could be the arrival into the upper
level of the clubh house and then underneath from right and left here we can have carts coming in both sides um or we could turn this building 90° which would make the make me make it a little bit more
efficient uh there one one point of one building is we have one roof to make M we have you know it's one building to maintain M right we say rather than two yeah especially if we got 4500 ft and
5,000 sare ft bringing utilities to two different spots foundations like yeah yeah and that's that's kind of where our estimator would start and be like okay this type of foundation over here this type of foundation maybe it's actually similar amount of concrete for the building that has a retaining wall on
three sides um but the we could look at a scheme that sort of is the Stacked building in the center over the tent and then we could look at the Dual building scheme where the building is on the putting green and the carts are over there if Tim garish
should I configure the practice area and the um putting green can all fit right that's an important part of the layout that t and I be working on this week because it was I was thinking when we were
discussing that the stack scheme was only feasible for up on the pting cuz it's up so high it is feasible there's just a lot more excavation so and maybe the soil can come out and create u a flat a flat area from the parking lot
arrival and cart drop off area to the front door over here so maybe the circle of soils come out of here got lots and lots of Acres that you could potentially waste some extra sand to gra but
um and presumably they might recycle and just you know disassemble this practice green while they're rebuilding the other one and that could happen prior to the contractor's arrival step mentioned that in some instances operations will pallet
they'll cut the salt P the putting green and then reuse it when they lay down new one so that that could be a cost saer if it happens if the timing is right right CU I'm sure it doesn't last forever and if with the construction season were to kind of go off when it's
most favorable to golf like in October or November 1st you know maybe the end middle of October you cut that practice screen out or even in September and you're rebuilding it somewhere else as the contractor arrives to start the foundation
so now we we we're this in this plan I'm kind of um trying to picture the staging area and the C return area just to assess efficiencies um versus our current operation we're um CU When you have an outing and Outing
finishes 144 cops are dropped off all at once you can see from the area right now it it's it's kind of messy so I was curious if there's a way to make it a little bit more efficient when that does take place
in the future is is that yeah is there enough space for that I think there is um and we can have these are your cards that are ready to go in the morning right mhm and these are two or these those those look like they might be returns
yeah uh so we can we can create more of a a golf cart Loop here where carts could be staged and returned um or perhaps there's a yard down in here where carts are returned where they're put back in the building cuz if we don't
move up onto the putting green we could use all that space with a trailer right car trailer space right I've seen gol fores with much less space have shotgun outings come in I
don't I don't I personally don't think that that would be an issue like new bever country bu has like no no SP at all and like I I worked there for 10 years and like we made it work so there's probably like five six times
more space here than what they have exent the the other you have to also I'm sorry you have to also have the employees or like the kids M to to hustle and do that I bet at ccnb you had
sure five to six kids no two it was it was two at any time it was probably two and you know they pile up for a little bit but you just slowly kind of startop breaking them down yeah I think as long as you got the space to just have them Park the carts then you just got to do
do your best to kind of break them down break them down clean them up and put them back where they need to go I think the biggest issue that we're talking right now here is just is there enough space I I guess that's what I was commenting on I do think that there's enough space for just put if the
building moves back there sort of we'll have a like a road that comes in front of the clubhouse now we'll have to have something like that that goes deeper into the property as well because right deliveries ambulance fire truck uh the delivery truck you know fulls sizee semi
is is it going to turn in the parking lot and back up the cart path to get closer to the clubhouse or are they going to have the hand truck in CU that's that's currently what they do they pull up the pocket lot back back in and then they wheel it into the trailer so right how many how many deliveries do
you get during PE um well I have multiple vendors probably three three different I have a food uh four yeah yeah you get one or two food trucks and then you have multiple
alcohol vendors and soft drink vendors and right now they know selling all that much food I mean you're still doing stuff on the grill yeah there'd be a lot more there'd be more deliveries probably are they timed or they come any time no
no they they have their set days and we typically uh their days their delivery days of Thursday and Friday so I I stab accordingly yeah I try to have them come early but those guys on the road sometimes it happens Y is there talk of another Pavilion I
know one of our meetings we brought up to one in the library is that still on the table or or does the building manage that and that was a concept that was passed around kind of building a you know I want call it a gazebo but know we
received things like this hand out um correct this is one of the you know something it's open to the air but something that could
flow you know people were in there the 144 group and that that was a a concept something that flows out of the building yeah you know when you have the uh like sub smash you know they get a space that they for 80
to 100 people and then it flows out onto the that's I I think our concern is right is we have a limited budget that's obvious we have enough space we don't want to overbuild the project but the the philosophy I'm trying to put out
there is we didn't create the game and you do have events that have 144 players with volunteers so when you have one that is that large or you have multiple ones that are that large which we do um that
144th player or those 10 volunteers are just as important as player one so if you have somebody coming in they hit the child line they got their food that's the first player they're comfortable but if it's a a bad you know if the weather's bad that day and we don't have
enough covered space for people that per last person that comes in they should be just as important as that first person so when they get their food they shouldn't be forced to sit under an umbrella at a beastro table outside you I mean in the in in the weather so I mean that's my only concern but but I'm
in no way shape or form saying you know overbuild it build it so it's 200 capacity I'm just stating that we need covered space for the bodies that we currently service you know what I mean and and I think maybe some of these
events that are 100 become 144 when you give them the services that they're probably looking for right people that didn't play in an event and we're shutting it down and back filling it with regular tea times to make the course full at 144 maybe once you have a
facility that they can sit down and dine they're their custo their loyalty of their customer base grows and they become 144 player shotguns and then you know you're going to in a covered Pavilion um or you know even open air
Barn yes that's my point could you could you can have a dining room 75 and in the open Pavilion for 75 get here to 150 people seated for dinner it's a it's an in and or an out the only difference would be sort of air conditioning right
right um but even in the open air uh we've done wind screens we've done vinyl um you can work with it yeah and you can do radiant heat which extends your season um and those are all things that can be added to the Pavilion over
time to really make that right I I just I just want to try to prevent us from um from being shortsighted in the sense that you know and I understand it's bu are tight and we can only get so much for what we've got that's totally thing
that's nice about a pavilion and a dining room is that a smaller group could rent The Pavilion and you could the clubhouse could still be open for the golfers and you know people in town that are just coming through to play 9 or 18 at the end of the day they've got the clubhous that
they can go to and get a drink and get a burger sure and or dinner after they play while an event is happening mam I if I missed this my apologies the the 5,000 foot that year talking about what is what do we looking at to hold
just indoors for that for people 144 is that is that one is building that big I mean look at some this m it's smaller and they squeeze in 100 and then where is this Pavilion going how
how how far do they have to walk from the dining room area these are the pavilion could be connected and it's basically an extension of the dining room with you know wall on one side instead of for yeah um that's kind of what I think is the most practical
way to do attached we don't want to relocate and walk 50 ft another building trying to right does up on the putting green a for us the room to have the building and the Pavilion yes I think so okay
yeah go in in Pro Shop bathrooms a hallway kitchen bar and then this big dining room and then sliders or you know folding doors or sliding doors that could be opened at an evant time but they could also be different are you
familiar with s this Mar I have been there has been probably three before Co it's probably been 8 years okay so I know a lot of us had few of us had visited s Marsh never been there till the other day I'm going to go back and take pictures on a nice
Sunday day and and even Dana agrees that a building like that kind of works you know from the bathrooms to the hallway Pro Shop and you can take a building like that tweak it a little bit and it's not 5,000 it's probably only
the square footage is small we could blow it up a little bit especially that dining room accommodate your 100 plus people because I think that's key I think that's so important what's the number you want as far as golfers and their guests and employees
to fit in this dining room and that's no problem opening up those sliding doors to a covered porch where they don't have to relocate it's it's just as a a cozy out there as it is inside and that way we can go from that
type of a room and have whether it be 120 people I mean there should be a number you know 80 is way too small yeah and it it's you know 144 people plus their workers and his workers the 8 is
talking about gol no 80 people 100 people how do you 150 on those peak days right and is it two rooms or one room or it could be a dining room in the center
and it could be a c porch on three sides but then all of a sudden the room feels like one room if you open the doors right like CH let me ask you pricing here I'm just doing the square footage and everything this is for the building this doesn't include a deck cover porch
anything like that this is strictly the building square footage of the building yeah okay so I mean I did 5,000 uh 45 at $6 instead of get 571 that's 2.7 45
45 is already getting close to what we have that de covered porch anything like that yeah it doesn't include 4500 it doesn't include rebuilding the the uh screen screen that's right so 4500 you
know would almost be too much over budget if if we're going to stay within that 2.8 right because I think I think what we want to do is design a clubhouse building that's sort of scalable we know what the kitchens in B
would be um for 80 to 100 people if it's going to be uh no they have to serve the bigger unit the bigger so the bathrooms in um and the kitchen and the bar will serve 150 that kind of Max occupancy in
the dining room we can choose how much of it is enclosed heated air conditioned space and how much of it is Pavilion or wraparound porch which is much less finished and probably open air that gets you the space you need the coverage
space you need without the finished building expense even at 4,000 at five you know $5.7 which you have that's 2.3 for the for the main structure now a deck in a covered you know covered
roof you might spend another 300 maybe I mean I'm guessing not to do the maap but uh we haven't you haven't built a car car yet yeah well this is putting them underneath at 4,000 though oh okay well yeah and I wouldn't say there the it's the same square foot number for the cart
bar even if it's under cuz the cart bar in the basement is probably the same as the cart bar as a pole building it's not the the 500 or 600 a foot that's the finished upstairs space right you know so and maybe what we can do is working
with our estimator that I worked on in the last golf it's been a couple years but if we take some of those numbers times them by some square foot um and do a couple of scenarios just around kind of cost predictions that would help I think so
okay I was I was looking at the 571t number and I'm wondering what what it is it's 600 or 700 and when it is at 300 and what what will those finishes look like personally I don't think we have to worry at a Chris Valley that we need
$700 a sare foot construction I don't think that's our rmo right yeah building this building today is a $700 square foot sure but that's not what you're looking for or even wanting um so so where does the 571 come from is
that sort of all in with the with the Slate work the agility upgrades building a 3500 to 4,000 ft building I think it'll be you know and what I did was I just took the 2.8 I took 800,000 out for a separate carard took 2 million how far
does that go sure 3500 2 million divid 31 3500 is the 571 so if we stretch to 4,000 ft then our budget goes down to probably less than 500 a fo and in the public real things always
cost more depends on who you ask is it 10% more or 15% more it's somewhere in there um than it would be if you're building at the prate sector just just things to keep time I think a question we're going to have to answer which I
don't think we've come to yet is how big of the food and beverage do we want I understand that we want to have the capacity to do 144 people so somehow inside and flow it out um but what about
the rest of the times what about the times like today we going to have a facility that's got 100 seats and eight people there or something to that effect are we thinking of bringing this out to the public and we thinking of keeping this just to the golfers and then we
have to adust accordingly with our budget you know me reduce and you know another question we were ask is the in the related to the food service is the bar service is the bar kind of walk up bar Service open to
the dining room and people take their drinks and go or is there truly desire to build a you know a bar with TVs and um stools that people could hang out at and dine at um that takes up space in
that dining room or um or it could be a separate room but often times we see the bar is open to the dining room and it's got a lockup service that's those martians they have schools we were just talking about before the meeting they have some stools
you can eat there you can have a beer there but they don't have people serving them you know what I mean like they they go up and and I think go is okay with that I don't I mean I'm just speaking from my perception of what I've gotten
uh from you know the people I've spoken with that select men golf committee members I think this is we're looking to just service our customer base I don't I don't think we're looking get into the McDonald's business you know what I mean I think you're just looking to
adequately service your outings that you have and your daily customers um granted we'll be open to the public but I don't I don't Envision us being the next pop Casey in town you know I mean I don't I but I don't know it's again this isn't
it's not my business I'm just perceiving what I've interpreted from the feedback that I've gotten so I mean we should probably communicate with the selectman and see what what their vision is but I I've always anticipated that this was like a service shop for your current
customer base with obviously the option that if you had some people walk in at lunchtime want to hit a bucket of balls and get a sandwich you can do that too but I I don't think we're looking to get into Define dining on the regular okay I'm sorry but let me just
say we haven't determined as a group you know how we're going to pitch this I mean when John comes back he's a he's the service and beverage guy right yeah so I we submitting this out to a corporation we uh so and I have some you
going to be Town employees doing this is it going to you know how are you going to make that whole area we we currently sub out when we have what do we want large outings for for the meal selection and and it's I can say over the last two
years is probably the best idea we did we've implemented um coming out of Co the massive increase our specialty was a stake ther but with the prices of red meat and beef going through the roof it was almost unaffordable for an event to
come and pay the greens fee and then tack on a a a steak dinner on top of it they couldn't make any money so what we ended up doing is subbing out uh to a local restaurant when we had um a full outing or 80 were 144 people we'd show
them a menu theyd pick their selection I'd call and make the order we'd still service the daily needs so if they want to eat a hamburger hot dog sausages beers we service all that while they're you know partaking in around the golf
afterwards the vans come up set up deliver the meal pack it up get back in the van give us the invoice and leave and they got a better quality meal they had more selection the prices were affordable and we still capitalized on getting our food beverage operation
during the day as well as all the alcohol as it transpired at the end of the event would it be beneficial to have Mike come to a meeting and give us his opinion r i mean you could if you wanted to
that's who you referred to right yeah so I mean it it um it was very successful and and as far as the customer feedback it worked but in my own personal opinion I don't think the board of Selectmen are going to want to spend $3.5 million and
then take a lease of $10,000 on on their food and beverage operations after they spent all that money I think they want to reap some of the rewards of of the hard worker that we've you know what we've grown to this stage we've actually have the program in place we just need
the space to execute it and I think by doing this yeah I think we should give it a shot ourselves and and sub it out like we're doing now Under the Tent see how it goes if if it's a fail well then you Punt and then we'll if that doesn't work we s it out Dan can I ask a
question if you know mind iest it would help us I think to have some things that you guys for guidance like absolutes we need to have this in the building I need a building for x amount of people things that you're looking for well maybe KT can can you help us out we we discussed
this last meeting we do about 5,500 outing rounds of that 24 of those events are 100 plus players everything else is 95 or less and then the rest of the rounds that we
do are all transit golfers um that come and play the place on the regular so I mean with with that kind of uh um breakdown on players uh demographics where do you think the the
priority should be with regards to a facility with roughly 2500 rounds of outings that are 100 plus out of what 35,000 36,000 rounds the other way I look at is you probably open for decent
weather say 270 280 days a year right and then you have 24 cornhold large outings that's less than 10% of your time to spend servicing a large outing so we certainly want to have a plan that can address it right but my own personal belief is we don't need to build a
building that accommodates something we're gonna use 10% of the time agreed same Tok you don't want to build something so small that you already the middle yes yeah well you guys know Allen setup I think they have a pretty respectable setup when it comes
to that for outings versus like cuz they have the bar setup where you can sit at the bar maybe there's like I don't know seven or eight high top tables that you can get food at that can accommodate you know people that are just playing rounds on De but they also have that function room on the side that's that can also
accommodate uh outings or whatever but it's just kind of like a separate area that like they would use in the event that they have an outing but you're not always going to have outings right so a a set up something like that isn't necessarily a bad idea I wonder what
square footage is on that Dan the other question is are we looking to get 14 people in the building I on every event you have I don't I think Dave spoke to that that um pretty accurately I think you
want to have enough roofed covered decking or outside mix of indoor and outdoor to accommodate the full Gambit of of a full shotgun event but the the majority of time you're going to be serving Transit golfers and regular
players in in a smaller space that's that's what I would see uh I you know I mean I don't see us you know building a new be Country Club for chush River Valley it just wouldn't make any sense no but if you built a small a smaller building the building itself and you did
the outside area to accommodate let's say 50 people of course it's going to be a lot cost efficient to build right the smaller inside and you don't have to do a 4,000 ft building I mean a 4,000 ft building would be 80 by
50 that's a big building I do like your concept of keeping it connected with doors sliding doors or Bond doors or glass doors so that if you are have if you're in an event and it is that big and you open those do they're actually part of that event somebody's on a
microphone running a raffle or an auction you can still partake in that and you contribute but when you don't have that outing you can close them off it does look like this huge open space you're not using that's exactly what they have and and I find guys are GR
different groups of people like to sit in different areas so the more little seating Nooks that you give them and the doors that we close down when we are slow they'll walk around the deck go find a corner spot walk up to the bar buy their Beverages and food sit there and someone else will go on the other
side and and everybody will find their little comfort zone so I that's what I see currently in our in our current you mentioned your tournaments where cers 135 come in and they sit in the nice spot and C for 140 comes in and stuck are you content with that buer of 140 to
go out on the patio in the southers marsh environment yes and what I don't want to do is have that player 140 to 144 in the volunteers sit at a a steel table while it's raining out with an umbrella over them you know what I mean
that wouldn't be fair I mean and I don't think uh from a business perspective it's a good look and you're not going to grow your business if that happens two times that that event will be dissatis five and you know it'll work against you basically so we don't need to build the
building inside to accommodate that 1200 I don't think so good that's good that's good and if you did a 3200t with the outside I mean now you're down to 1.8 million if you did a 3200 sare foot you
should that a covered outside you should put that calculator away you got to come within a budget you just can't do a 4,000 ft building at $571 because it's going to be way too much right you know but you know the men's room and the women's room are
going to be about 500 squ ft so that takes a big bite yeah the Pro Shop could the current Pro Shop is probably 20 by 15 so it's it's the yeah 300 Yeah
question um does it need to be 900 does need to be three times as big no I think we could actually as Mr F said last we could probably utilize that space a little bit more in the Pro Shop if we had more space to do what we're
supposed to do where it's supposed to right now we got three coolers and storage using of the Pro Shop storage space little TV we're going to start with the dining room and then add on everything that goes with it all right
and then come up with a number and to get the 3500 it's going to be a challenge you know really efficient very little Corridor space um and can't be any less than we got now right you give me a shoe box and I'd be
happy but if we can have we can have if we have 34 to 3600 ft enclosed and we had a wrap around porch which took your capacity to um the 150 on 10 or 15 days a year great that's the
Home Run John question I have a question based on your bullet points here about your in ining that a separate cart B cheap if you do a pole bom which is relatively straightforward what we looking at a square foot for that
um I kind of um say well what if the c bar was 50 by 100 yeah um and one at 160th but and I just was trying to use a low number and a high number in the range we're doing a a metal space
building with contractor Bays um right now in the Y and that's around 237 a foot and there's 11 overhead doors and 11 bathrooms that's about only thing in the building yeah um but it's fully
heated and um uh plenty of sight work septic you know all the other site components are there um so in the public could it be 250 foot I don't think it will be I think it's
going to be more like the 180 to 200 a foot for a whole Barn which basically is just enough water seasonal water from fed from the clubhouse so you can wash Cs and there'll be um Cold War car floor
drain there um and then we'll have a good size power service for all the charging okay um so I I think that building is cheaper by itself than it is under the clubhouse I agree um that's my gut feeling but I'm
going to talk to some contractors and some cost estimators and figure out what's the what is the difference is that something you can provide as with yeah I'm going to do I wrot down to do some cost predictions for sort of the one building scheme and the two building scheme um and maybe I'll do it the same
way with a high and a low range just say it could be somewhere in here other question I have if you don't put storage underneath the building what are the things that we don't have to put in now well if the if the building are separate they'll both be less than 7500
which means they won't be sprinkled so we we'll have I'm sure the fire department will want to hydrate right next to the building um but we won't be required by code to do sprinkler in either space okay um if they're stacked you need a fire rated 2hour assembly
which can be gy wallboard couple layers yeah uh doesn't have to be a concrete floor um so it can um but it's just one of those things that I think the two slabs are cheaper than the slab on the floor and the fire protection um so I I think the two
building schem even though it has two roofs should be a little less okay that's my guut um but we're going to try to prove that out with a couple of different scenarios and some fact you know evidence from other people CU my thought is do we have the room out there
so I think that what you're saying is if we separate building is not going to affect an overall room it's not like we have a tight sight to begin with right you have that flexibility that then be and maybe the cburn kind of goes a little further away from the practice
area so that you still have room to build a chipping area there alongside the driving range okay you know we don't we don't want to site a building that prohibits something that you really really desire and that would just make like the you know the logistics for deliveries
and stuff going to the building you're not like oh you got to drive the cats around these deliveries coming in and you know yeah cuz this build a cuz it does get jammed up when we have trucks come and it's like that that all where all those CS are is where the
trucks are trying to get into so yeah just remember you won't have a you won't have to double wi there anymore either yeah right so you know that moved in a little bit we can still create the arrival relocate this arrival Point closer to the building y we still have
room out here to put in some chipping areas or uh and the practice green all within that area C back to the space building can you can you price it out where there's some sbl of heat in there as well because the batteries and
the golf carts all like the cold if we go charge if we go electric yes so you we can get a it doesn't have to be 70 in there no we can we can design the building is it not habitable I so we can
we can put in enough insulation and um typically when they're insulated it's a plastic scrim over it on the inside and it's um it's perfect we will have a little vation too
um I'm just thinking because I know that my course they have to unplug the batteries at the end of the year and then sometimes in the in the spring when they wake them up a lot of them have to be replaced because they froze oh this winter was a bad winter I got cold and I have a steel building at work where we
actually put electric heat in we keep it like 45 dur the season mhm and just a thought like we were saying about like the Pavilion space you know we've done um jobs where we've used
the same roof line and used it almost Space Incorporated into the same trust roofs you know what I'm saying and use that as the covered and you're kind of connecting the building and you have that space if the roof structure is the same yeah and you know at the end of the
room we just have doors that open 10 years from now we've got a little extra juice in the bank that space you yeah that nice kind of yeah
yeah I say we take s's M and we tweak it and make it work get rid of the fireplace put a deck out there more deck that Pro Shop is way too small they're definely partially covered so we would I would say we should want we would want
it fully covered well well the PO the portion of this m is large similar to one that dang just showed me a picture of another course and then you can have an open area where it's not covered whether you do have a table with an umbrella sure for the which is really
Peak summer days yeah and then the more options the better Outdoors because it doesn't cost you anything really right we've done we've done the water clbs where we pulled the roof back a little bit so that the kitchen can roll out grills and do barbecue nights and stuff like that too on the same surface but
not under a roof I know the budget is 3.5 is that including what the they have in the kitty now what they're going to give us I don't know what they're going to give [Music]
us who said they give it well it's been thr out there right yeah haven't over hit that level yet it's been thrown out to us but I'm not sure we we based it off the National Golf Foundation report I mean we had to start somewhere right so we took that
report and we we tweaked the numbers that were inside of it and um you know we came up with that 3 and A2 P I think I had notes from our last meeting that said 3 to 3.5 plus course I thought
including was the one did the 3.5 include anything that they have in yeah so speaking for my own thoughts on this because we haven't like voted on it but my thought was what's currently in
our Reserve fund balance for the golf course I think it's being slated for the other infrastru structure needs that the course would need such as repairing the bridges that they needed the irrigation system things like that and then it would be like a you know contingency of
the contingency if you needed like the last 100 200,000 and I'm just throwing that out there potentially but I think to start with I think the plan is what's in the contingency fund is more for the other infrastructure beyond the clubhouse is what that's being held on to for now cuz I I think if I'm not
mistaken I think the irrigation at the current rate was estimated somewhere around 1.5 million to do that somewhere between 900,000 1 half million depending on how much of the components needed to be done so that's within the next 5 years that's another pretty big expense that needs to be taken on is the
irrigation system so we want to make sure we have a plan for that as well and not cut ourselves too thin right okay they so so the golf uh the golf fund the the $2 million Reserve or approximately whatever it is no monies would come out of that
in these for this Clubhouse would there be any you know like half a million dollars that offsets the 32 million you know I thought it was said at one of our meetings that some of that money
would you discussed it as a possibly but we didn't we don't have the authority at the end to get the last couple hundred thousand potentially but I think to start I think to be on the safe side to to not assume it only because you can't you can only have so many hands dipping
into that pie at once with the overall needs of the course Beyond just the clubhouse well just to get an understanding we we have to make sure this budget's going to work they're looking at paying it off in 5 years so do you think you're going to have enough money no I think at the last meeting if
you remember correctly no I'm talking about I'm talking about when we met here February 11th we had the initial meeting with all three groups the select board expressed paying this off within three to five years now is that a number that's going
to be um achievable or is that is that something we should start thinking about well no it's going to be more than 5 years I think we should have a meeting with them you know and get you know you know no because that's a valid
question that's a that's a big that's a big number you know right now we're paying what 350 on we think talk about that expiring in a couple of years right so are we going to take the 350 and then throw another 250 on it to give us
600,000 that'll be a yearly that we can say all right well it's not going to be 5 years but it's going to be 70s you know and uh it work it that way I think at the last the last meeting Dave review the 3.5 million
under the concept of what the current interest rate was what our current payment was once that was expired and and paid for we would feel comfortable paying that same amount on a project moving forward but I don't believe that
that number uh would cover a 3 to 5e payback if I'm not mistaken is that correct okay just go so yeah I think we need little maybe a little more communication with the selectman to see it a reassessment of what what our
number currently is what we're kind of looking at with the app and then maybe what you just said what what's our plan for payment that that would be all right I mean the payoff date is based on the size of the budget and how much
revenue that the course takes in and what they can afford to operate I think putting a number like three to five years is is premature you I think we're got to get what we what we think we ideally want Within in
the budget that you guys are thinking is attainable and then you kind of back into it from there and say hey when this is all done this is what we all stand behind yeah we think 3 and half million is still a good figure when you back into it say okay how many years would it take us to realistically and affordably
pay back 3 and half billion and at that point in time once say here the desired product here the anticipated cost and then back into it from there and then say is it truly feasible but I think it's kind of like one of the last steps inste of saying right now I mean the golf course has had debt for
28 years you know it's been self- sustaining so I mean not to be a little flippant about it but what's a few more years of debt to get what we want when we've been paying debt for 28 years on it oh I I I agree on that aspect I'm just you know as I said stated from
stating what was said back at our initial meeting some there was some there was some dialogue that day where square footage and and not much Capital was just whimsically F rather than sitting down and
understanding what our needs were and working with a professional and understanding how that's going to manifest itself into a budget and then an actual building and then what about paying it off later I agree with that yeah good I agree all right good so do you need
anything from us her at this point like more well the after meeting has been really helpful kind of understanding what the building should have um so I think we have what we need to kind of really put pencil and paper and um start designing the one building scheme and
the two- building scheme I will um start building sort of a spreadsheet all project all costs and construction budget for those two items as well um
and um Tim garish was able to secure that too and G you know Geo survey for us um so I don't think we really need a whole lot more I'm probably going to
take a to go this sub is marsh and I will probably with one of my associates come out and take a better look at where the utilities come to now and what's the service for the current clubhous and
where it originates so that we can think what is what are the really the upgrades for power for one or two buildings really going to cost I think that's a number I want to get my hat around so we'll come out call Daya and make an appointment to visit the club
um and I have now a really good sense of s the the right size of the program in the building like I said couple offices in the bathrooms are easy to plan pro shop at
200 square ft uh um is not big enough but 400 would probably be really really nice um and then the kitchen with some walk-ins and uh area
for drop offs and stuff could be somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 to 600 squ ft we're going to try to make that real tight if we could when that phase takes place I'd like to have John abur take take a peek at and I mean when with what you draw up I'd like to have John's opinion on that
cuz that that's definitely his Forte so we can kind of got us through the kitchen abut okay um so I think we have what we need to really kind of start putting some floor plants together and then locating that and then I'll work with Tim on sort of
what side is the kitchen and the bath on where's the best views I think the views are sort of Southwest to 18 and no yeah 18 and one on the left 18
right so I think that's sort of where the focus is the Pro Shop would look out on that and then the um bathrooms might be right behind that in between that and the dining room and then on the other side is all the food service and the kitchen and the bar and
the deliveries are all coming in on that right side of the building um that's kind of where we'll start that'll get us conceptual plan that we can Le put a budget on um and then uh Tim Garis I will do a
little site plan for each concept with the cart staging areas and the cart path changes and think he can Dole in the practice area and in the new practice scen location so that that really is a flushed out concept we know it it work I
think as you move into it you guys SP a good idea I don't think the you don't have to put the the pro shot view on the on the scenic side I think that's where the customers should kind of spend their their uh their Leisure Time yeah like we Pavilion opening up down the Fairway
okay that the best yes I mean that's for us that's that's selling the product while we're not doing anything right they're going to sit there look at it get the Ambiance and and I would say the best view nobody really sees that's one of the sunsets but once we build the place people might be having cocktails
as the sunsets and it's right down 18 and it's uh spectacular so I mean I think that would be a wise wise decision recommendation anyways if I mean if you can if you can draw it up that way it doesn't
work yes cor I have a question about the timeline on that St because you know like anything else we've been making it up as we going along so uh today's April 1st what kind of uh I think I'd like to
come back with the kind of program statement and areas that I think the building each room in the building should be and the budget outlines um yeah and maybe that's in two weeks
and maybe that we have the draft of the two site plans and you can pick at those but then we'll we'll know that we're going on the right path on the building size good yeah good and then maybe we I think we could probably think about meeting every two
weeks until we just kind of nailed it okay over the next you know 6 to8 I think that's the kind of schedule we're thinking about now 6 to8 weeks weeks oh yeah three or four meetings where we got kind of two concepts and two budgets
yeah um and and then we kind of just going to go okay which one do we like and which budget do we like better um um which one is feasible which one is Affordable
um if you go with the two building scheme is there a basement in the single building the club I don't think there would be there would be no oh there would not be no proba not so then you have a mechanical room yeah well all the air handers probably would be in sort of
attic space okay uh be a slab onr just to kind of go simple simple and uh boilers yeah oh sorry yes we would have to have a mechanical room for hot water and and so forth Yes somewhere in the floor plan we'll have some mechanical
space we'll have that all upstairs yeah yeah back to back of the kitchen or something like that yeah kitchen's going to need hot water the bathroom's going to need plenty of hot water um systems most of little B Air Handlers built-in
friezer uh SL coolers yeah we would do probably walking with a freezer section or they could do two side by side you know if you have thoughts about the size of those um we've done them 100 ft each but we've also done them where
they're more like 60 ft each yeah you know 6 by 10 there's always ways to do out of that building later you could add a like a stand alone cooler right you can have a little fenced area at the delivery driveway
where the walking what we've been using as a as a out yeah it's not as ideal but if you need the space an option yeah right and on some restaurants we've done sort of a
delivery you know overhang like a little loading dock where somebody can back up the tailgate too mhm um and and sometimes on that open air with a covered ptico over it is a walket it's
not in the building yeah then that Refrigeration is not in the building I like that idea gentlemen any other comments so Kurt would it be okay to say we meet in two weeks or do you want to get back to
me that's tax that the 15th I mean I don't know yeah I am booked to go to the the historic Commission in marville that night all right but I could I could do Wednesday or the Thursday can we do Thursday the
17th is anybody 5 p.m right so let's uh let's say our next meeting is Thursday April 17th 5:00 p.m. here at the police station we have our technology sort out
awesome have yeah I'll verify you know that this location is available on Thursday not being taken by anybody else all right with that gentlemen do I have a motion to adjourn a second all in favor I okay
thank you very much awesome I