##VIDEO ID:Oxlo5Wps7_M## this is a regular meeting of the alleno land use board at which formal action L we are on right yes thank you sorry at which formal action will be taken on the items listed on the agenda and upon any other matters which may properly come before the L Year Board the requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied through posting on the public bulletin board and in the municipal building and on the burrow website and by publication in the record on December 29th 23 with copies being sent to the Ridgewood news certain agenda items will be open to the public for comment Andor testimony the board will advise the public when such matters are open for their comment and or testimony before we begin I would ask everybody to join me in a salute to the flag please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty jce for all thank you and again before we get into the roll call I know it's a rainy night and everything thank you everybody for coming out tonight greatly appreciate it Council for us moving this out a couple times thank you okay Linda roll call please Vice chair woman Bergen here board member Wala here board member patrino here board member golio presid board member Dow here chairman too here won and Butler herey here so since we had our meeting last Monday we don't have to have any conversation relative to meeting minutes or anything else like that so we are getting right into the public hearings meeting uh I'm sorry public hearing for this meeting uh Mr Kelly I just want to be sure before we go any deeper that there's all this you know with attendance and eligible people and we are put it in order here am I correct I believe you are I'm not very good at math that's why I'm a lawyer not an engineer but I think we've got a full de full compliment of eligible members Council to vote on your case tonight should you get to a concluding point so you've got seven eligible members here there was no further notice from the prior public here and we carried to this date December 18th for the meeting so there was no further notice I do see we have some neighbors here again so everyone was aware of tonight's proceeding um and we have nothing further tomorrow and we'll confirm the exhibit number here at Council once you're up here and on the record I think I know where we are but once you're off for the races we'll just confirm that as you go through the balance of your witness deck but otherwise Mr chairman I think everything's in order to continue this case this evening thank you sir um okay so the uh application is file number 2024 I'm sorry 2024 d04 the Allandale Rehabilitation and Healthcare 85 hariton Road Allendale New Jersey 07401 block 601 lot 7 the application is to construct an 8541 foot addition to a non-conforming assisted living and nursing I'm sorry and skilled nursing home and this is a continuance from the meeting of September 30th 20124 okay um Council and and I've asked Mr Cali too I don't know how you guys work this out but since we haven't been together since the end of September I have a minor request I'm going to put you on spot I would like a a a five minute thumbnail review of where we are if you could yes if you would be so kind fair enough sir thank you very much and then we can get into everything else that we're here to finish tonight for both the benefit of the board and the members of the public okay thank you sir this is our third first 2024 again on September 30 presented two week so far AR and Jeffers engine5 one story part of building parking are that will include parkes currently know more um there have been some discussions about mostly related to trash um and security and the three issues that I believe hearing are um during the entrance Road satisfactory andc um curing through trash exposure I mean through a gate trash exposure Northwest section of the uh parking area that is near the kitchen one of the and then the third is is where to locate TRN um we have submitted plan which alternative location the original location and the hearing and another location where we reach parking SP the middle of the island ACR the dry r w and Mr Jeff all right thank you I Michael you don't have anything in there just we're just going to proceed y okay as a could Council okay Council please floor is yours um you're still under Ro Mr Jeffers oh yeah and your license is still in good standing I assume for the record very good nothing happened between September and look I gotta keep it light guys I'm sorry there you go you're not doing the drones asses on this what I'd like to do is talk about those three items that Mr just brought as you may recall at the last uh meeting we discussed the relocation of the trash enclosure to the southern side Jason there was a discussion around that location in terms of concern about theard asked us at was exhibit 82 we Hade that was our exhibits that were dated August meeting and those are the ones that we were marking up and talking about at at the laste um was transmitted copies of boths recently in our transm letter dated December 6 copies this is a point of clarification uh we have mistakenly referenced discussion August yeah yes I just want to make sure that we all have that on the record fair enough thank you oll last meeting at relocating inms relocating that into and this exhibit which is the exhibit dated December 5th proposes Theon cross into position allow access around the building uh as you can see here put it in up e identify truck approach the position in the drive aisle and then have to P turn to ex this would then theing spaces that are displaced by that location be reestablished here as well as here in front of the um this location would cause us to have to relocate a existing white pole as you can see in this exhibit we are showing the area around that strike is just cly it's a paved area and it's very tight the one thing with this location that frankly attention is it doesn't let usen landscaping around it or Screaming around it because it's now in a prominent location in the middle of the par the original location that we discussed at the last meeting position that position TR the southern side that would allow us to put in some some additional supplemental plannings in and around the that immediately adjacent to the enclosure raise some concern about the proximity of that to the neighbors question regard order talking with the client the trash closure will have AIT however as we all know controlling the order within a dumpster is is very difficult so from that perspective relocating the Trac closure Center further away from that from the residence it might help perspective perspective but then provid some Lim how far off the property line does that moves so for the benefit of everybody approximately or the Delta from where 80 feet off the property line where the original as compared to 40 okay all right so we've doubled that we liit our ability Toc of Thea around it really okay so so let me I'm I'm G to be a little bold here at something if we we would like to see some level of I'm going to put the word in quotation marks screening okay and the concern is the parking space and loss of parking space if board was in favor or so favored that we gave you some relief on parking spaces because we've all had these conversations about how many truly parking spaces are occupied at any given time and I know we in this environment uh uh employee area and all of that if we gave you some relief how many would you need to try and Landscape screen whatever I I know I know it's like I'm sorry we're doing this now but what the plan is pres that's a very good question very that's very good question and it really back to what perspective from what perspective or history if we're looking at perspective our screening the from that that VI if these sixes were eliminated and that area converted toing that would that would enable an area here where we can some addition Li in effort of screening the view from this six that would be that would be six and Council I assume that Mr kennel is going to be up next after Mr Jeffers concludes as a witness taking the all and sure I I see Scott diligently writing notes back there so I'm sure we'll get into this further with your next witness as well okay and if I may yeah I'm sorry that actually was a very good question I'm glad that was because that then potentially address the issue and if I can just interrupt one second so just for clarification and to remind everyone we're talking about an area that's strictly for employee parking right this isn't this isn't a par this parking area specifically isn't for the general public it's just going to be that's correct and meetings question come up as to whether we put something somewhere you're IND anyone we talked about that sign that sign was just at where you're indicating where the where the garbage truck is as it enters in that area corre roughly right on that corner right right on that corner okay all right and also that Landscaping would would potentially also help with to certain extent the beeping from the truck backing up to a certain extent we okay all right but um but this new revised plan with the trash in that you know Island you're already eliminating some parking compared to the other right actually other words it helped you out if we gave you some really on some of these parking spaces that are conceivably for the employees or in the employee area of that without hting requ VAR as it is the ex okay all right all right what's the distance from me where you're proposing the trash enclosure what's the distance from the edge of that to I I guess the edge of property or the heav the heavier line on the bottom is that like the edge of the is that the property limit there just one here yeah yeah that that's the property so potentially if you were right now we're at 82 ft if potentially you were to relocate it just hypothetically where we're talking about giving you some paring relief again it's hypothetical what would that how far back would that push this location so on the drawing if I'm not mistaken there there's another area from I guess are you refer the original yeah how far was that that was that was closer that was closer that was approximately 38t 38 potentially we would go to 82 thank you actually I have a question so where you showing the new enclosure 80 ft 82 ft it's into that part parking area I I don't see the need um to eliminate the spaces um opposite it because we we essentially you have the curve line anyway you you could be planting and buffering at just behind that curve line anyway there's really no need from my vantage point to to eliminate parking on this side of that curve line there's existing vegetation right trees some some of the promin omin tree here but there is that's but it really would limit us if wanted us to put in something plan it would be limited to okay thank you I may just continue on can I just ask you one question about that supplemental planning which you which you discuss they provide any additional visual buffer given the distance between the home and the trash or do you need something that would grow higher to provide that that thiser sits higher that story really would visual because it would stay lower who knows if we have mixed vegetation and I don't I don't want to testify but Rec I was out there Saturday to make sure that moving in the right direction and much of that vegetation that you see there is cous so if if in the winter from that parking lot what you see there are there's a row of Evergreen that that's that cir no up on the up on the property of the the adjacent property that screen the cool that's back there and that's that's the bu winter you can see straight from parking lot those treat so if you were to if you really wanted to enance that screen the only way to really do it is and put ever right but but maybe a small portion of the could come out and you could put green Giants but without impacting Park I'm not sure we can do that in I'll spit because of because you have a brook Beyond yeah I don't know that we're going to be allowed to rip out vegetation in the and I'll defer to him on that we get into an area over here where we have blood Hazard area takes a while to to to another CL and we're g I don't want to spend the all night talk about parking space but um if you were to take those parking spaces come out like 18 feet or so if you were to take nine feet of that and then you put two parallel parking spaces there then you I again it's a configuration situation here I I we're laughing because I just mentioned it oh really so for net loss four doesn't your plan show some new new uh Investments behind the curve am am I not seeing anything these are these are the existing these are the existing okay fine okay let's let's let's have that as all right board members will we can resp okay thank you sir so go ahead I'll try not to interrupt you a lot of discuss here as why of those concern is there's a chain link F comes up from Sou that driveway and put in aiding that will be have access to so we have the ability access but that also pedri down driveway some the neighbor um without putting dat through there that they that that that condition this would be invented do that prevent both pedestrian and the and then secondly there was a comment and a question this trash area Bas ex SK nursing area what we're proposing there is that that area is currently open to view we would be proposing to the six CH with privacy slacks and a gate also privacy slacks to prevent that area wanted to try to address that there are the three things that are shown differently on the five exhibits and as I said that's if has any comments or questions with regard is the existing fence that's there for foot or is that my understanding that it is sliding I like the sliding idea um maybe this is for you I'm sorry for maybe this is for you accent like for for raw emergency yeah I I from an emergency standpoint I have no problem with that um the only thing that I would like to see on it would be a SOS box put on it um for fire department use well obviously you'd have the code pops there for the code to be pressed but also um no yes correct but right the the SOS box would be uh siren operated um we had we had it in other complexes in the in town here so that emercy service come come up to it hit the sir and sech siren and the gate open correct yes any relative that would satisfy yeah and then because of the slide there would be no open areas I'll be able to walk around so we've at least got that part address okay holy Fu can I just make one more comment regarding that will that sliding gate be connected to the generator system for The Bu for the simple reason if that okay thank you thank you just thinking if you lose power to the building he he he was swor previously but I I'm not sure we're picking him up so if you want if you want to sit up here Tom K say your name and your affiliation so my name is Tom course from Executive Vice President of plan operations for Marquee Health Consulting um what about in addition to what you're talking about we also hooked that to our file alarm system and anytime we have a fire alarm activation that's even better idea that's why I was going to go with that next okay I I I think I would prefer that too so if you're good with that the other question the reason I asked about the 4 foot can it be higher for the simple reason 4 foot's easy to go over um just having people coming from 17 come over sure no no no I I I understand that did you try Apple okay because Apple Google was but Apple was not so I know that was so I I certainly have objection or would the owners have an objection to increasing that if that's what cor the board because also by increasing it it also gives it more of a barrier of course from the public view of it but also from a safety perspective of somebody going over def fence and INF the property agreed correct 100% I I get it I think that it's something that it's necessary I know that it's been an issue for the public um it's going to be costly toss but quite honestly I think it's something for me to do thank just the think you said slot wasn't it good with that we just recommend a brown vinyl helps to disappear in the landscape yeah I agree that's fine yeah absolutely okay what top height top height we agree to six six fo top height which is outside of I know I know we get into this whole West brons if we're asking for it and you're to get exactly I'd rather have it as part of the package if you're agreeing to it I I don't think we have that air it's a fair ask if you that requirement but I don't okay board members we're good you you can okay here EXA board members question of this witness on what we heard okay okay all right public questions of this witness on the testimony that you just heard if you have questions please come up name address thank you sir road ram Jersey um can you spell your last name please b r ggs the trash and recycling in the northwest corner project area one is that being moved or that's still that the original plan is still right right okay okay just wanted to confir thank you any other members of the public okay seeing none I bring it back to the board any questions okay Council thank you sir thank you very much Scott canel here just take your name for record last name please first C spray in Scott Kennel K nn El with MCD and Ray Associates located in Mana Squad New Jersey go would you raise your hand please you swear affirm a testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do thank you I know your qualifications very well but perhaps put on the record so we can qualify you in your field of expertise this evening sure I'm a principal with McDon and Ray Associates I have over 35 years of traffic Transportation Planning I've testified in over 2,000 site plan applications um I've also been qualified in the Jersey Superior Court is a traffic expert on for land use matters and I've been involved in many uh projects such as this which involves parking and traffic activity throughout the state that's correct in over 100 municipalities thank youed I'm not licensed qualifies as a traffic expert right okay okay thank you thank you so our office prepared come back some time a traffic and parking study dated January 16 2024 and as part of that investigation we conducted traffic counts on the Route 17 access where we installed an automatic traffic recording device to record hourly and daily traffic for over 10 days and we determined that the subject site is generating approximately 600 Vehicles a day two way trips over a 24-h hour period and then the weekday peak hour is generally around 50 to 70 vehicles and on the weekends it's a lower amount uh in the range of 40 to 50 Vehicles again two-way on the access drive out to Route 17 as part of the data collection we also did uh extensive uh parking accumulation studies we conducted those studies in August and October of 2023 and basically we found that the uh parking ranged even during shift change around 100 Vehicles parked on site where we have 170 vehicles um we have 170 spaces and we had a maximum recording of 107 Vehicles parked and that was um in that 2:30 to 3 P.M during the shift change which is what we would expect to be the Peak parking accumulation the time that we conducted the counts both the traffic counts and the parking counts there was ongoing um internal renovation so there were 294 beds available at that time when we did our counts as the testimony has been presented when the expansion and improvements are completed there will be 316 beds so in other words approximately 10% increase so taking that in consideration the the peak hour weekday activity the traffic volumes would increase 60 to 80 Vehicles over a 60 Minute period so again it's not a heavy intensive uh traffic generator type of use and then as far as the parking is concerned with the additional beds to be considered again going from 294 316 we would expect the max parking demand would be 120 Vehicles again um where we have an excess of 50 spaces available and to the discussion earlier about eliminating those six spaces on the souly property uh line in my opinion it wouldn't uh affect the operational aspects and it' be more than ample parking onsite to accommodate the peak demands that's basic when you did those when you did those studies I'm sorry you said that you did it over a 10day period I'm going back to the report from January 16th 24 dated that that dated that correct but the actual dates the dates that the that the automatic traffic recording devices were installed were from July 31 2023 to August 10th okay so summer months um I'm just just the reason why I'm questioning holidays you know i' I've worked on many other projects where we've been asked to do parking studies on say for example Mother's Day where you'd have an increase again it's typically a weekend where Staffing is is is generally lower and then you have a situation where a lot of the uh people on site are taking day day trips they're going off site so you have a combination it's not where everybody every resident or everybody that's on site is is receiving guests you'll have a number that will and some that will leave and we found that the Peak parking was no no different than say a weekday Peak period And in the I just CL confusion he did the traffic count yes but the parking CH was August October of 2023 yeah it was bored that was yes that was on the traff it was a peak week day those weren't they weren't weekend counts conducted octal but trip generation was when you did in July right July through August correct and just for the record as you had made a comment that people are coming in day trips and those pickups generally are made at what point of The Bu like towards when you're first the well yeah okay just well but sometimes some of the guests they will leave for the day to go if they if they're family lives in the area usually they'll it's a little bit of resit to get off the off the campus have a change of scenery but again we've done uh been involved where we've done parking counts on Mother's say and the peak activity is is comparable to what we would see during the weekday we have the highest vo activity okay and Council the reason why where I was going was just to understanding traffic flow like that that's the context of my question no no no no no no no no no please I want no sorry I want the challenge I want to I take I take the word what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to understand for the record for the public also right so that they understand where we're going where line they going traffic CH and then the other important thing is not every employee has a vehicle on site there's car pooling there's U employees being dropped off though it's it's not a one for one as far as number of employees versus employee vress if we were were successful in getting the Amazon door Dash ous and lifts stop using this entrance here is there a way to think about what the incal uplift and traffic would be coming in on 17 would that have been com for traffic study well we did the Route 17 but I I would imagine if if there is a bump it may be 10% nothing that can't be accommodated by that access rout 17 I don't think it's going to have a negative impact on that route 17 access uh it's well below it's the operational aspects of it's well below the capacity of that driveway so I I my opinion wouldn't have a negative impact obviously it would have a positive to the neighbors and I believe that the renovation is for enhanced services and potentially higher acity patients and so do you anticipate more traffic volume seasonality in the traffic as it relates to those enhanced Services relative to what's being support to that create more volume and I'll defer to the the uh site representative but based on my experience you know our recordings during the summer even the parking counts in October is generally represented of what you'll see throughout the year there is not a significant seasonal change gener generally what the the basis for the parking or traffic is the number of beds occupied and uh the the Staffing so my understanding the Staffing would not change on a seasonal basis is generally consistent with what the number of beds that they have available have occup SC I just want to ask you something very quickly for the benefit of the public who may not be as learned in traffic design as you are because and it's only because we reference Mother's Day few times if you could just confirm for the record when you're designing a site my understanding is you don't design for the anomaly you don't design a Target shopping center or Black Friday you don't just if you could maybe say something on the record about that because maybe it'll lay some concerns that the public may have assuming they do well it's generally consistent with the 85th percentile and other words the the uh it accommodates those activities at 85 percentile what is also important is that we've also reviewed uh National Data that's published by The Institute of Transportation Engineers as well as Urban Land Institutes of recommended uh parking supply for these type of facilities and were consistent with those recommendations and uh generally on the higher side of what is recommended in the recommended indices for um this type of use so taking that consideration the extensive number of parking observations the traffic accounts it's all consistent with what we've seen in the data that's been collected um not only in New Jersey but throughout the the US and published and recognized by all jurisdictions that I'm a I think perhaps that's helpful for your client's neighbors to understand that thank you no further question I guess you had the opportunity to listen to a little bit of the discussion about the two options regarding the southern dumpster location I don't know if you had a chance to study it but I was just curious on if you had an opinion on the an upside or a downside one option versus the other from the traffic ISC as far as the location of the dumpster or the parking post that the the two the two options where the dumpster was going to be originally located in the corner versus moving it to the central location in the I mean the alternate design it's within creating that Island 80 ft from the property line uh based on my review of the plans is as well as the Turning templates provided by side engineer but that that that can work just as fine as if it was located closer to the property line um so from a traffic operation standpoint either location works well but obviously to to reduce the impacts on the neighbors I suggest the alternate location thank you and again The Parking Spot modification whether we give up six or we only give up four if my numbers are right would have no impact on the ability to accommodate the Peak Park Advance CH please just two quick questions regarding the uh there are two design waivers that are included in the application of the access drive with at the entrance drive and the circulation drive with um have you looked at those and you have an opinion on their adequacy well I again as far as the access Drive width to referring by where the Culvert of brid structure correct um you know it's at that location of the site there it's low volumes low speeds and as far as I know it's been operating safely and could continue to I mean the fact the fact is you have adequate sight lines on either side of that structure and obviously most people coming to this site are familiar with its operations and um as a result um my opinion can continue to function as it has been safely then also they have the uh some of the drrive AES go as low as 21 ft in width you see any issues with that I think they've proven through the circulation patterns of the truck turning movements that they work that's correct and that that's the critical thing to be able to accommodate emergency vehicles as well as the Refuge Vehicles site based on the plans provided can accommodate those larger Vehicles actually just raed another talk a couple meetings ago I had made I was kind of hung up on turning radi the truck the fire trucks etc etc the new plan this might not be an answer Council I apologize for fact but has this been looked at by our guys fire department or do we see an issue I don't know if this but nothing nothing radius wise has changed right no turning radius no nothing as far as the various uh the various locations of the site no and there were actually truck turning plans submitted with these recent Z but based on my review um none of the improvements or modifications were suggested would impact um circulation for large wheelbase okay I would like to get that to see as I saw I saw you come up sir the last meeting discussed previous exhibit had discussed corre email back was very happy turadi presented based on location closure Southern cor we utilize the same truck turning temp to evaluate location show that here have very SAR mement okay but they have not signed off on this particular that plan so the one thing that I would just ask sorry one thing I would like to just ask is that that it just is contingent Upon A further review by our fire Cod official or Fire official as a okay we're good with this understanding okay if we could please thank you thank you okay coming back to the board questions on anything she just heard amen okay about lighting it was a withens I believe that that was resolved in the sense that most instruction like has been done and adjustments made if necessary my recollection was that there was a a problematic existing light that was identified that was one Spotlight was definitely be removed that was going to be completely addressed and they also agreed to do Post construction Vis and they it thank okay anybody else on the board okay uh as per the last witness I open it up to the public questions on the testimony that you just heard for this witness okay seeing that I bring it back to the board question we come through construction no constru currently no constru my understanding from The Operators maybe provide that fencing soon rather than later so that Cil we might be splitting hairs a little bit but actually I was just going to ask the same question that the fencing block you know a lot of the not going to be able to be installed until after Windows over ground okay but we don't we want to just be sure that no construction Vehicles which we which we've already agreed to but no construction vehicles go down hiton but that then started to put the same question M just raised in my mind could the fence be like the first thing on the punch list if you may achieve that with a temporary if they had to Temporary there but we can't we can't temporary lock emergency vehicles they have to be able to access it through some kind of talking about a 10 fence fully operational fully operational there is 10 fence for construction sites that allows you to have temporary G I've never seen one that has electronic it wouldn't be electronic it would be temporary for the purpose of deterring any construction or maintenance vehicle to Res they don't want to have a a padlock on that gate that would be I think we spoke about that at the end of the last Mee not want to P off on that g think a could be put in 12 month I'm not I'm not an expert on that I'm not gonna just we're just asking you to make make that a priority we're asking you to do a priority because we're just trying to you know I mean again a lot of the situations that we're talking about for the resid in and out of that area so we want to make sure even though we can all sit here in the room and say okay nobody's going to go through there we just want no intend to make it more a little IR okay that's it we want to secure we can thank you sir board members further okay thank you sir thank you professional plan see you take name for the record Paul your last name please first Paul GLE g r y g i l business address Stephanie Hudson Street you swear or affirm of testimony you're about to provide with the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth I do thank you please give board benefit of your educational professional back yes I'm a licensed professional planner in New Jersey that happen since 1999 I'm also a member of the American Institute of certified planners I'm principal of the Philips chice gany Hughes planning consulting firm regularly appeared before boards including I've been before this board accept an expert previously in the past couple of years as well as 150 or so other towns throughout the state your LIC it is yes sir you retained by the applicant to review this this application planning persp yes you please give benefit for for the benefit of your observations and conclusions certainly given the amount of testimony heard and the amount of time it's taken to get here I I can go this Spence will allow the background information uh but I'd be glad to go into detail if need be if there's any questions the Crux of the application from planning point of view is the properties in the AAA residential Zone uh previously was a permitted use of the existing use of the property which has existed for going on a number of decades now but at some point in the past it became non permitt uh so we require a D2 variance for the expansion of a non-conforming use again this is a longstanding prior use on the property and just to put it in context just U before getting into the proofs we're talking about an increase of about 7.7% in the floor area over existing rather modest increase in one location on a site that is over 11 acres in area so I think um my planning testimony will follow up on that and that's a key aspect of it that we're not looking at a wholesale change in existing conditions compared to what's on the property today uh there are some other variances as well which I'll go through in sequence but essentially there are both variances that relate to this being a single family residential Zone and having a long-standing use that has been non-compliant because it's a different type of use for some time it's something that needs more part needs more pavement larger buildings so the bulk regulations for the AAA Zone really are not relevant to a use of this type just in terms of the these2 variants that's being sought I'll jump right into it the is I'm sure heard testimony before that there's positive and negative criteria that need to be met positive criteria for special reasons in this case we're dealing with an expansion of a use as I've said has been here for some time the applet is not seeking to introduce anything new to the area in terms of the overall use of the property there will leave some change how it fits on the site but really we're seeking to improve operations uh of an existing facility that's been around for some time to modernize it uh there's case law from the Burbridge versus mhill court case which talks about improvements of uh making a property more acceptable than setting here we're providing reasonable upgrades to enhance the care of the patients facility uh modernizing the facility how it operates but also to address some concerns that we've heard from the neighbors and from the board and others regarding the existing operations on the site uh but I do believe the site can accommodate these changes again dealing with a under a 10,000 square foot addition and the southern portion of the site that wouldn't be visible uh from nearly anywhere despite in addition to the fact that this is a property that's basically not visible for most parts of allenvale begin with but even from neighboring properties we're talking about very limited areas on top of that with regard POS criteria just briefly this is a apparently beneficial use under New Jersey Law there's a definition that talks about uses like this that promote the general welfare by their very being nursing homes and assist of living fit into that category um there's essentially a test a four-part test to go down I'm not going to go through it in great detail but that where you basically weigh whether um you know what's being proposed is inherently beneficial and how how where it falls that scale in this case again it's a valuable service being provided from the existing facility that we're trying to keep up the current standards you need to look at whether there's any harmful impacts from the change here again I think we tried to address everything we can we're for the last few minutes been working with the board to do that uh and again it's a residential Zone with your access from a state highway and we're doing all we can to make sure that's the only way to get to this property other than emergency ACC uh you normally have to look if there's any conditions that could be um conditions imposed to immedate these these any problems again we're just trying to do just that we've been having it back and forth with regard to the buffers the trash the access fencing and all that so in summary with regard to the positive criteria I think all those positives clearly outweigh the negative um just move right along if I will to the buk variance um again these are number of Standards the first one that is a Dev variance is for four area ratio because you're allowed 0.119 currently in the residential Zone we're already over that at 32 and expanding it up to 338 so it's a slight increase as I mentioned about 9,000 square feet just under that again I think um in this case the D4 variance for 4A ratio can be granted because we're talking about a very modest increase site can accommodated on the overall 11 acre property uh we're just providing changes in the rooms to keep them up the current standards and actually reducing the overall number of beds so it's not a it's a bigger building but not one with a larger patient population compared to what was there previously also the building's design is being broken up to different the massing of the building to make it uh essentially more appropriate and not visible from neighboring properties so I think that that variance can be granted just in summary with regard to the c or other bulk variances there impervious coverage uh which is a similar issue that it's a standard for residential zones we're increasing it from 51.2% to 52% so again the a modest change in the pavement on the property and other building areas uh but again it's again a residential standard that's being imposed on a non-residential use any increase in runoff can be addressed through engineering techniques U to accommodate the changes we're also again the overall site so I think it's a hottest change in the context of this overall development the other variant of just relate to parking the number of spaces the aisle widths uh various things we've just heard about so I don't think you need me to go tell you more other than the fact that I think they can be granted those on the previous coverage RS to be granted their C2 criteria benefits out way the detriment clearly we're upgrading the existing facility that it's upgraded well but it can be improved and the applicant seeking to do that and I don't think there's any substantial negative impacts of theyan properties from these changes just lastly we need to address the negative criteria go too much more detail but it put them in in brief put the briefly it's there's no substantial judgment to the public good and no substantial impairment to the master planner zoning ordinance I think it's a planner given it a long-standing use being improved in this location and for everything else I've mentioned regard to the access and improving the conditions on the property there be no substantial negative impacts on neighbors or the overall the per as a whole and certainly with regard to the master plan and Zoning org against not permitted but it hasn't been for some time and given that's a long-standing use that we're trying to improve it actually is um beneficial to try to do that the master plan even talks about this property being designated in the future for Public playi public or institutional use that's in the 2017 master plan so it recognizes this is not your typical single family property so in summary I believe from a planning point of view the variances all are Justified and can be granted thank have no further question board members question comment what we just heard and the requirements there up so um I'm going to open it up to the public for questions of this witness okay what you just heard thank you sir breaks the witnesses Project based upon the Tes my understanding is that parking spots are fair question standard is whether it's any substantial negative impact I think that given that's an existing parking area and the applicant is improving you know the lighting for example those existing conditions are problematic and enhancing buffering and and planting that it's taking existing what's been there for some time and modifying it somewhat so would it be potentially more impactful to you or couple Neighbors near you that's possible but I think in the scheme of the overall site it's it's not substantial negative impact public you will have an opportunity at the end of all of this to provide comment and further questions okay anybody else from the audience okay Michael I keep you know Michael and I keep is there anything you guys want to add to this please I would have raised my hands but I I believe the applicant's planner has provided you with proofs and outlined all the details that are necessary um I believe you touched on the master plan um I did want to identify we have goal number one and goal number two that we've outlined in our memor which talks about impacts to adjacent Residential Properties I think the applicant has through their planner has provided the board with some evidence as to how they're mitigating those impact I think as a one of the members of the public was concerned about lighting I think what we're looking at now is are types of lights that have sharp cut off associated with this dark sky compliant type fixtures that helps to reduce one thing the board could look at as far as detail in that regard in weighing the variance that's that's being proposed is whether or not some of those could be time or motion sent so nowadays you can do that with them uh so that helps in the evening hours to reduce impacts to adjacent residential Pro that's just one thing I technology would have to be work sure sure and it's available technology that we do a lot yeah I mean I I think that's part of the whole post construction evaluation I think there has to be obvious some level of security lighting in all the pars that on 247 exactly what that is on my expertise Workshop valua adjusted but I do agree that facility but that you would be willing to look at that as the project I think that was acknowledged previously and I'll I'll reaffirm that yeah okay particularly along the edge that's adjacent to residential property correct me if I'm wrong this was down lighting correct yeah all shielded down all the lighting that could proposed is down lighting shielded but just to make sure that spillage is limited and or eliminated entirely and so forth that's that's post constru fixtures are very adjustable now you can adjust their spread where they go I think we about intens I don't I don't want to get but I think that was even part of discussion that we we work on that as well because a lot of the LEDs you buy today they're all right way not not not not just that but there's a setting on where they come with a gamut of settings where you can go from uh cool to Bright Ty of thing LED headlights I see coming I don't like at all don't like them at all so we'll work with town and make sure that's done okay we're we just want to make sure the residents aren't going to have an impact absolutely that's priority there's two priorities one to make sure that the that the parking areas lit appropriately and safely two to make sure that we minimize it eliminate that would be work issues with employees partying leaving rubbish that side also I I I don't know but the problem is is the Brooks over there and I don't know to what extent we would have to go to D to disturb anything that's in that in the flood plane of the brook the brook one all long that Northern property line you can see it right up there there and and as Mr Jeffers testified before with respect to the southern part which is influenced by the bo we're going to do everything we can but not influence anything around the door I mean the neighbors obviously are free to put up fencing of their owners there if they're disced but we have added uh Hedges along all all the uh parking spaces that face Northbound to eliminate all lights from headlights that go in that direction so all of those will be shielded by the hedging that we're going to supplement what's already there you have another now that's summarize my comments unless you have specific questions on the troops that we all I'm okay hges Rel plac are there any trees outside that would be planted it's already there already ve just like on the South Side there's already vegetation that's pling along that hold that whole fence line and properly in fact inside car line by substantial to it so this will just supplement the maybe we could could consider beyond the hedging that's related to that paring some additional trees you have a bunch on the West Side possibly at relate to n here behind the curve behind the heding some opportunities to put some things in that would would be helpful to those Neighbors on that on that nor if you look at the plan Brook runs between the parking spaces and property plant in Brook Micha I just want to make sure anything uh I don't I don't have anything at right at this juncture I do have some those start move in process along a little bit considering at this point I don't have okay thank you I have you're concl I've concluded my thank you Mr R so at this point we're going to open it to the public for comments we're done with questions and cross- examinations of the prior Witnesses um Mr Briggs I see you on your way up here we're going to have to swear in anybody that comes up at this time because the public are going to be making wherever you're comfortable wherever you're comfortable if you do choose to stand up there you could you could sit if you'd like okay and perhaps we're going encourage witnesses to to or or the No No the uh the residents when they come up to sit this way we have proper uh pick up with the microphone okay um all right so your name again for the record sir uh James braks B GTS we have your address on record a few times tonight so Mr Briggs now we have to swear you in do you swear or affirm a testimony you're about to provide us the truth the whole truth nothing about truth yes please proceed sir thank you good evening my name is Jim Briggs I'm here with my wife Christine and we live at 244 Nottingham Road in Ramsey you may recall we were present in Prior meetings for testimony on this application and had questions of some of the witnesses providing testimony tonight as a reminder our property is block 5503 lot 22 which is in the northwest corner of the subject property and adjacent to project Area 1 and the plan submitted with the application appreciate the opportunity to provide comment thank the board and other community members here in advance for giving me the next 10 minutes or so to do so I've reviewed the ownership structure for the property as included in the addendum to application for development and see its multiple levels of llc's while the adendum doesn't make clear the affiliation I did want to know for the board they weren't already aware that Trico Partners Real Estate Investment Group based in Brick New Jersey that shares an address with the property Allendale real property LLC announced the acquisition of the subject property into its Investment Portfolio in the fall of 2021 by their own description on their website Trico Partners looks to maximize investor returns with diligent Acquisitions and value added Capital Improvements that's not to say they will be bad Community Partners but their job is to maximize investor returns Christine and I moved into our house on Hingham road back in the fall of 1994 and considering our move we knew the property abutted the Allendale Nursing Facility we didn't go into that potential purchase with our eyes closed we learned at the time that the facility was built owned and run by the J Carlo family for around 25 years at the time we were considering our purchase we're able to evaluate we the impacts of having that existing facility buding our property we went ahead with the purchase taking what we felt were reasonable comfort that the facility would not materially change as its use was now a non-conforming one and that the Allendale in use board would be entrusted ensuring any changes did not negatively impact the community we've learned from the application and from the testimony provided in Prior meetings including tonight regarding the owner's proposed plans is that there would be an over 85 % increase in the amount of parking at the facility outside our back door project area one we also learned that there would be 50 to 70% increase in the lighting I want to say lighting intensity but in terms of the lighting structures um at least 50% I didn't get an exact number at the last meeting the existing lighting is already apparent invisible to us and our neighbors today some of my neighbors may have photos um another 50% increase to that I'm a finance professional that has spent over a 35 career year career among other things judging the materiality items to financial statement of disclosures not the same thing here but by any measure these changes certainly seem to be material alterations and additions to project area one material to the property owners AB budding that area materially negative impacts in the neighbor to the neighboring properties I may add not positive l my understanding is that in evaluating a D2 variance to expand the non-conforming use a variance should only be granted if this board based on the evidence presented before it feels that the public interest as distinguished from purely private interest of the applicant would be best served by permitting the proposed use in these instances the board must also find that the granting of the variance will not create an undue burden on the owners of the surrounding properties I've quoted that language from the board Engineers report dated April 15 2020 is my view that it is overwhelmingly the private interests of the applicant by extension investors in the Trico investment vehicle where this property sits that would be best served by permitting the Poes mentioned earlier in over 35 career year career in financial services I have some familiarity in the real estate Finance space ger familiarity in real estate Finance pH I completely understand the applicant's desire to execute its business plan have transitioned the facilities mix servicing services and capacity to provide more skilled nursing makes good business sense and it's in what they consider to be their investment group's wheelhouse of value add opportunities that require more than cosmetic improvements to reposition the property I don't begrudge that but I want to be clear this is no longer a family-owned property the J and Carlos moved on after 50 years with their sale to Trio Trico partners presents this as a portfolio investment and Its Real Estate Investment Group as such troyco has investors to satisfy by maximizing returns to them when you were talking about a value at Opportunity you need to monetize that value you've created if you were looking to fully maximize returns to investors not always but occasionally that is going to be through a sale after you've been able to transition and stabilize the property that's why Trio's Prime person for Acquisitions is also the prime person for dispositions both activities can be critical in driving returns to investors one should not presume that this property will be a long-term hold for troo one needs to be able to look past troyco the troyco team are diligent investors as they present themselves to be on their website they wouldn't have considered the granting of the variant's application a given and likely would have conservatively factored that into their acquisition all the more reason a granting of the variance and a repositioning the property would likely benefit their investors the most it's likely upside from I'm not suggesting that there is zero public interest being served by a revised mix of services that would be offered at the facility if the non-conforming use variance was granted but as someone in his late 50s with a mother and mother-in-law on the a and a circle of community friends in similar situations I honestly hear zero conversations or complaints about there being a lack of choice when it comes to Skilled Nursing and Senior care Living Facilities in the county or some vocalized by Allandale and Ramsey residents that these proposed changes that Allandale facility are long overdue and desperately Le needed by this very Community I just don't hear that as I've said I believe the big benefit would be the trco and its investors and because of the likely desire to monetize the value created by the pro proposed improvements I'd say it's uncertain whether they would continue to be owners of the property in terms of undue burden on the owners of surrounding properties I recognize that as a legal term and I'm a fin and accounting guy not a lawyer I'm unsure whether you even need to consider undue burden if you find it's not in the P not the public that is best served by the proposed changes but I see the term defined a significant difficulty or expense with Lighting in Project area one increasing by 50% or more with parking outside our backyards being increased by over 85% I suspect the value of our home and that of our neighbors that but the property will decline by some measure if this plan need to be approved and executed as an an expense if you will that we the homeowners will be burdened with not to mention the expense that some of the home owners AB buding the property may choose to incur for additional landscaping or other measures to mitigate some of the effects of propos changes using parking as an example as noted in the application and testimony planning in front of the parking spaces will only be in the two to two and a half foot range and only grow to four to 5 ft not sure how much that helps contain lights from vehicle activity for lot that is increased by over 85% when you were talking primarily split L homes on our perimeter never mind them noise pollution from The increased traffic acor project varable that doesn't even take into account the double doubling of lighting I do appreciate the thought that has gone into not placing the trash and recycling in Project area one like originally anticipated but the changes as a whole which are very material to the neighboring residents of project Area 1 still seem to be driven by maximum value add for the business and investors with the neighboring residents being expected to accept it I expected more focus on the residents by the owners of non-conforming property at triaa residen of the district to summarize we and our neighbors on antingham went into the purchase of our homes with eyes open understanding that the Allen Dale facility was our neighbor and all that meant with respect to the impact of its operation speaking for me and Christine we feel we have been good neighbors for the last 30 years we don't see that change we are fair and reasonable people we do not go into our purchase however expecting that we'd be the ones to one day be burned with the impact of changes to non-conforming use property that overwhelmingly benefits portfolio investors while providing only a modest benefit to the surrounding residential troyco as diligent investors likely recognize the granting of the Varian of risk we shouldn't be rewarding their investors at the expense of our neighboring residents and Community respectfully request decline the application is presented thank you again for providing this opportunity thank you anyone else in public would like to make a swor statement or comment for or against the application to 56 Nottingham Road I am Lot 24 on Nottingham Road um I have some pictures tonight we're gonna have to swear you want yes SL please do you swear or affirm testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes thank you and anything you introduce first I'm going to let Council for the applicant confirm they have no objection to it and then we'll Market into evidence we let the market as an exhibit um once we confirm there's no objection will not be we'll identify it we'll mark it then you can start discussing in slides if that's okay are you ready to go into those photos now yes this is a photo deck prepared by you taken by you recently can you identify what we're going to go look at correct so you're looking at photos from my backyard looking into to the Allandale um nursing home parking lot and then from the Allandale nursing home parking lot going in looking forward to my backyard and my neighbor yard taken by you sometime in the recent past yeah about how many photos how many pages just just for the record so we track this down later it's a staple package two three four five six seven eight nine 10 11 12 13 pH Council any objection and none of these have been this is the first that this board is seeing yes and the first that anybody else is seeing yes outside of your neighbors yourself yeah there so these 13 photos miss last we'll mark it collectively as 01 for objector exhibit one feel free to speak to them realizing they're relatively small you might need to ultimately pass them around to the Bas if you like the board members to to review them okay okay that's fine um okay so um in my backyard there are I have a fence so past my fence on the island down there swing home side there are tall pine trees um one of my concerns is that on the plan where my lot is it says removal of Evergreens um so my one concern is that if those Evergreens that have been growing for over 20 years are then replaced with three feet ever greens I now have direct access looking completely into a part lot I have a bu level so my deck is high my kitchen is High um as it is if I'm in my kitchen those lights the headlights are coming into my house at all all hours of the night again I knew moving in there over 20 years ago I'm fine when ambulances come and fire departments come and um because that's that that's part of it there were some years ago that some of those trees died I went back and forth with the previous owners they did put in smaller trees that that gave me um no privacy so on a c to my husband and I we put in giant Evergreens which you will see um in the first couple of photos so that is my one main concern that if those evergreens are taken down that the my lifestyle is impacted greatly the second issue which we've brought up previously at meetings is that the garbage is being picked up early in the morning um we were assured at the last meeting that garbage is only being picked up between 8:00 am and 6:00 pm um Tuesday Morning the garbage just picked up at 6:10 a.m. um the trucks are loud there making all sorts of noise um so again we were told that something was going to happen and it has there has no been no follow through there no one is able to say when the garbage is being picked up and not being picked up so the board doesn't know the owners don't know but the residents know because we we're the ones impacted the other issue is the employee parking you will see see in one of the exhibits that there is a couple of rocks where the employees Park they hang out on those rocks they take their breaks on those rocks so they're eating they're throwing garbage I have pictures of garbage they're smoking but they're not only smoking cigarettes they're smoking pots and in the summer the whiff of pots in my backyard my neighbors backyard I know it's legal in New Jersey but then they're going back into work the music they're leaving their car doors open they're blaring their music when they come at 6:00 a.m. in the morning they are blaring their music again the owners nobody's there at 6: a.m. to hear this nobody's there watching what's going on except the Neighbors on na camp there was a discussion about a fence being put up there could be a fence put up I don't know if any of you have seen the way the brook runs Brook runs this way I'm here I have a neighbor here goes all along here up to the route of 17 there is not enough um vegetation and there's not enough landscape in which you will stay in this so increasing parking spaces increasing employees possibly all these things are just more of a detriment to people um on ning cam Road I really respectfully ask that you consider that this was a nursing home in a beautiful neighborhood of both Allandale and Ramsey and now again it's become a corporation as Mr Briggs said we don't know how long these owners will have it but what what's going to happen in the future if we allow them to start construction what's going to happen in the future when we have no constraints of of what's going to happen and that is my major concern as an owner of 2569 cam for over 20 years so I would like to present pictures for um the board to look at you could feel free to pass missl it'll go it'll make it way around thank you give moment toot Ruben we have a question for you that you could probably confirm about site operations your gar service that you have since it was brought up question um that's a private service that you guys have correct and if I remember properly exuse yeah we did discuss this and you were okay and for the record those guidelines that we were talking about were between in the morning last you you just heard that comment okay and it was something that we did discuss in the past right the applicant okay so the applicant is yeah yeah yeah so I I just so benefit of everyone in the room we have I have a a running list of prospective conditions of approval should the board ultimately vote in favor of the application we haven't start deliberation yet we're not through public com however we have a list of conditions which will be limiting conditions by and large that we would discuss on the heels of a board motion whether there be a motion to approve or deny Council for the applicant will confirm whether he agrees with what we've captured as those prospective conditions as being accurate during prior hearings they do include um time limits on refu collection outside boundaries we had 8 am. and 5:00 P PM I hear Mr Kar saying 6 PM 8 to6 8 to5 that is going to be the range that the applicant would be bound to honoring if this application were approved along with a a Litany of other conditions that we've already captured as prospective conditions that one will be in there can I come yeah so I just would would like to get an answer whether those Evergreens that are along the Allendale property that above my property where in the um plan say removal of evergreens are those very tall Evergreens that have been growing for many many years going to be removed and giving me direct access to the parking lot and the Allen Dale structure and why would they be removed when they're very healthy treated so that's a question for the applic what I'm seeing is an area that I see the notation near your lot right it's referencing an area not at the lot line it's referencing an area Beyond by the existing loading area I'm GNA let the applicant answer the question I just want I don't see them on this sheet as being immediately AB budding your property but the applicant's going to have to confirm that for you and answer your question if they like at this point at this point we're in public comment not cross examination the applicant may not offer anything but Mr Rubin I leave it to you to to address or not okay if you would like to come up and address what you just listen to and perhaps just that Mr Jeff so we don't have to you know go through cross-examination extensively again if at all and Mr Ruben I I have no issue sir if you remain up here during the question I make them more comfortable I whatever Su okay from their perspective not mine okay [Music] very what we can do could request do you so if the board provided to you really on those it's four spaces if the board provided that said okay look forget the four spaces we'll forget the four spaces six side or two on or four or four on the other side if you want the two parallel that's eight space that's eight space is that and we're talking about 150 according to to K is the as the max with the Improvement 120 excuse me 120 Max we have a 50 Surplus now if we lose six of them or eight of them parking increasing by 85% I'm not I'm not putting that out can you just explain what's going on this are currently are 36 there's 36 there's 30 I'm going to use the point as you're doing so it's 36 in here existing existing and we're doing it's an increase of 75% just that okay you're not increasing the footprint of the parking area at all that's what I want to ask yeah from here from here to here that is not modified ex which is slightly say one okay to line okay and then as part of as part of remaining with the I'm quotation marks the number that they currently have they said okay we've got to come in the app is coming in and saying we have to add these space if the board grants relief on these four spaces this situation goes away and it reduces the amount of spaces but in the testimony of the traffic expert you have more than you already need or we will have more with with the addition of extra employees okay did that capture the C are we eliminating the four or the 12 just the four right I understand but a few minutes ago we talked about 12 going down to parallel in the South four in the north well that that's that's the next question that's the next question turke hanging out there SE okay Frank go ahead please just say I mean the headlights facing into the rear of everyone's home which is most likely in their kitchen why can't we get rid of those just so that one you're get rid of the headlights going in but you're also getting you're deterring people from parking there and hanging out seems like they're guess a great place to work like and if their employees that are hanging there I'm sorry I'm sorry Council go ahead just give me one second no problem sorry it's reason that helps everybody that's okay with us that's that's okay too all 12 the four proposed and the eight existing along the northern property and to add planting there yeah repl them well planting there's already you got the four there's already vegetation in I don't think you got to protect the neighbors you got there's a lot of stuff going on let's slow down let's just slow down one time please I'm getting attacked from a lot of different angles let's just slow down if there's no cars facing those home I don't believe there's any indication that the existing vegetation was in in inadequate because there'll be no longer any cars pointed towards those homes and there'll be no longer any parking space in this obviously when we take out the eight spaces that exist we're going to have to plan some kind of landscaping through place we're not going to just leave con unstrip concrete to but and so so that whole area will be supplemented automatically Council respectfully respectfully you did not have the opportunity to look at these pictures did you no I would take take a look at the pictures I've been there I know what's going on okay okay what I'm saying is for those eight spaces where there's a problem those will be removed and replaced by Landscaping of whatever the Ford believes would be appropriate question of whether or not the the place where the force spases will never be built and whether or not that's adequate what are we buffering from in other words there's no Vehicles parking in that direction anymore so whatever vegetation where those four spaces have been I thinky she wants to remain we're not going to touch that and will remain so I I don't understand what about the four spaces just the the four spaces will exist exactly as they are today but the ones that you are going to eliminate we're going to remove what goes there we will put whatever you ask us to if you want us to put a line of of a hedge line there we'll put a HED line there if you want us to make it one we'll make it one a hedge line obviously will keep people away better than lawn with that's what you're saying what are do right so so whatever you want us to put there we'll put there that would solve a solve a lot of it by putting a putting a fence there across it you won't have to worry coming SL slow down too many people talking me once okay please please go ahead please what I what I don't understand is you you just want a fence that would cover where these 14 spaces would be because the the fence that exists already is much deeper into the in towards the northern property B you you I don't understand what you want us to do the same fence that you have coming down this way down thewest property side onit why not run it all the way down property up Sy he said where right there's nothing nower right in here right Council just tell me if I'm right that's exactly right right along here you're putting a fence you're putting a fence we've talked about a fence right here am I not correct okay so we were talking about the original intention was that the fence was going to stop for your fingers but there already is fence from cross there yes but the fence the fence is open and chain link is that on the is on their propert whose property it looks like it jogs over the property line at a point it comes back yes the northern side is open chain link as Well's I'm not sure that's I'm not are you intending asking wherever it could fit to create blockage for sound lights hot smoke all of that but a six foot round vyl but but it has to be solid number one and number two is different which is different okay and the second thing that I would then have't concerned about is that if you have a fence there and then you have a piece of land and then you have a chain L fence beyond that is that inviting got it my Sugg that's where I was that's that's what I'm concluding there's there's also a drain line through there and probably some other utilities that you wouldn't want SC the fence in in that easan area so I don't think looking at the plan it doesn't look like those utilities far on the property I there's some place and what would have been that Millman land that would property line makes sense property line Looks like know based on the information that's as here I haven't looked at the pictures yet but probably best the only Nuance with putting a fence along a property line where is existing vegetation is that you may have to trim some of that V that's that's an expectation just to be aware there's one other issue it's one other issue and I've experienced this many times my career that is putting two Fen back to back to one another creates disaster in between yeah so even if you were to put this on the property line there's the adjacent property owners have fences along that same property line and I'm not really sure and you want to put back to back fences I that's problematic I can't I can't disagree with you our engine Beau e second offer I think of landscape buffer probably be more effective than the fencing because of the existing trees that are there especially since you'll have a Southern Exposure on the development side of the property that will get those trees to be growing all the way then compared to those and they would be placed where the parking are the ex I've been involved in application for engineers have said that specific vegetative especially stagger two rows of ever that that's much more effective sound in councel on a personal I 100% agree with you because I person so I agree and it's Southern facing and we agree that okay to remove Rel remove those 12 proposed eight existing and four proposed show we would be willing to it to your profession for their review and approval um obviously before we get any that modification still in public comment we're still mid well I think yeah before we do that just just one thing we have to reopen Mr Jeffers offered very limited testimony on the elimination of the spaces that should satisfy the questions are red but we have to open up again to the public for any cross- examination on Mr Jeffers based on that limited 30 seconds I've added testimony he offered if any so any members of the public have any questions as Council just said okay seeing done I bring it back to public comment now are we concluded just one more gent no no no no no I'm not concluding that part I just want to make sure I think Miss L you're you're you're satisfied yes with your questions and comments we can move on to another member of the well this is your time so if you're okay so we're just that there'll be nothing else to to volley back and forth it's just the members of the public now they're offering comments so if you're done okay great you're done sir sir Rees RS 24am Road and that is the blue house he just saw pict of um yes ma'am r y s any your first name I'm in am I am thank you Mr ra would you please raise your hand sir do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide with the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you sir um to piggy back on my neighbor statements and pictures um as you can see my house is fully exposed to the way of that Park and that those specific spots um and to be clear sir yes your property is the benefit of everybody here so that they understand on the board these are the eight spaces in here so you're like right here okay all right just everybody on the board and the public understands okay thank you sir um to reiterate um the the parking situation is going to increase by 50% every single car that passes through to park in that back section I hear it my family hears it my kids hear it um the employees as when they Park they come in very early leave very late at night they very loud music smoke um I I can't count on my hands how many times I've had to go back in from playing my kid in my backyard because people are smoking outside um major inconvenience all garbage the rubbish that gets thrown back there um Tak a very nice creek and you're you know it's deteriorated and it looks disgusting I've I've found remnants of food in my backyard um lobster tails um so just you know again the the increase in parking the increase in lighting um we have trees back there but in that particular section you could clearly see my house um when winter comes along all the leaves come down the sound increases the lights are glaring through my kitchen um so I'm just begging you to think and potentially help us come up with solution um to mitigate all these issues um as well as the increase in traffic that we're going to be seing um thank you tonight for for your time I'm not I'm not going to much more so you you just heard where the board is putting forth eliminating propos for plus the existing a and the planting in the in the addition of the council has spoken said that they would be willing to show a landscape plan would that would that help satisfy your concerns if in fact this was to be because it would be a condition a very strong condition of if this approv if this application was approved so the proposal to add um a sound barrier with Greener is uh a substantial change from what's currently there my concern is what size try are we discussing here are we talking about adding refot Burns that are going to eventually grow into something that's been shade and sound mitigation or are we planning on putting in fully grown trees that are actually going to be effective immediately Mr R maybe I can help you with that well concerns are possible the board Consultants to your left will have the final review If This Were acted upon favorably the post post approval resolution compliance review formed by Mr sank get and read and they would have the final say it's all within reason it has to be objective um the final say as to species quantity location of what will be planted and where they were at every proceeding they twoo are mindful of impacts um from an engineering and a planning standpoint so it would be reviewed and approved by foror valdale effectively this would not be left to the devices of the outli and alone as to what they're going to install do you have a is your property you have a fence you set yes but the guidelines for Ramy were limitation 4 ft but you have fence that goes to the length of your property correct yes and it's on the other side of Creek so it's the creek right front the house back I would I would increase that to six to eight especially if we're considering uh a green giant AR body they tend to come in very narrow initially and we try to plant them close enough but they do get gigantic so we have to give them some space to grow so there's that wants and Council if I may throw a comment here again on a personal note whatever is proposed and that Mr Snus and Mr vand work with you but they need to be deer resisted and I'm not 100% short giant thank you please you're you're okay with that whatever is gonna work okay sure okay thank you all for your time appreciate okay thank you sir thank you other members of the public okay being done I bring it back to the board Council so just before I let you go any other further comments from board before we here Council okay your I'm not one to make sensive closing remarks particularly on application that's been heard over three hearing dates I really I I think that we have made every effort to cooperate not just board public resolve issues that frankly I walk in here not knowing anything about I think representatives of the of the facilities know anything about and now they do and it's their job to take care of it and it's our job to make sure that those problems are alleviated having said that extent that this board can help us do that we accept that and obviously there's a limitation on enforcement ability this board has has done what it has is be ability to put conditions on which you know need to be practical and need to be how can I say this um something that can be implemented rather than something that is possible control like sound car might go into a parking lot at whatever time of day or um this is a facility that's Opera and and I want to digress you for just one second frankly the ownership of facility is IR relevant and I can't have that Val um the market has changed somewhat with respect to the needs of the community and a facility like this lives and dies by its ability to meet the needs of the surrounding Community they accordingly they have opposing a change in their B account configuration between Nur and nurs home but overall they're reducing the number of BS 331 to 360 and I think that is a significant issue with respect to a D2 bear because the question of while they may be expanding footprint of the building in a way that really doesn't impact any mon or the operation any neighbor in fact intensity abuse of the cling because there's fewer BS so I ask this board to will favorably we will agre to any and all reasonable conditions we gone through them quite a bit we've already agreed to almost all of them if not all of them sure Council make sure that I could see the resolution before it's adopted by the board so that we could make sure that not only he's caught everything but they has put to and um and I therefore respectfully request the application thank thank you sir thank you e we have one lingering question for your operations for this um don't mean to damper your closing statement but Mr K course may have the final word here we have one question for you sir and if there's any public questions based upon on the answers you will have your last links opportunity again so the burough had a public safety committee meeting um want to say week and a half ago two weeks ago and it was brought up about how many times the volle ampled service goes to the facility um and they gave me some data um back in covid back in 2019 that year they went there 20 times um next year in 2020 it went down to 11 and then in 2021 it went up to 63 but after that from 22 to 24 it went up enormous in 2022 they went there 169 times in 2023 they went there 156 times and in 2024 they went there6 so and that's taken away from the service to the town all my yards so um I know we had discussions about this previous meetings and just wondering if you've done anything I I I have had conversations with the owner now after this meeting I will have another conversation regarding the utilization of should not be I will reiterate that I know in the beginning statements were made that you well you would go back and forth between a private service and the use of anul dep right did you do anything with the study regarding um the seed cost of having the private service there at 24 hours now we looked at we had we did look at this at another location it's not C it's very cost we looked at U we're looking at doing a project in monville um the board asked the same question if we could do that and it's just not financially feasible for us to have an one city 24 hours a day um how about during specific times of the day I I can't say the that was look that okay because that would be that would help too if during the daytime hours they had somebody there know I I don't have the time be honest just what drives that drastic change I mean we went from forgetting about Co if that's an extraordinary situation but how do we go from 60 to 170 like what happened there I can't I can't check it don't again that's a clinical question that I answer sorry I mean because that's that's a major problem yes at at what point forgive me you might have this in tes at what point did you you guys take over ownership of the was August of 22 so 21 21 and the growth 21 it shows obviously this goes from 2008 2024 that you could see the graph onine like take picture thank you so the previous owners that they have I can't answer that I don't I know yeah maybe they did not be C prohibitive but I can I can tell you that I did the due diligence on the building and I at the time when I did the due diligence and I was there multiple times I did not see sitting there for services that's that's the only I can't say something I mean from an operational stand I mean I understand you guys can't control the noise of the cars but we had a situation with the garbage and that was supposed to be addressed and it wasn't and my fear is that this continues to grow and let's not to say that 160 doesn't become 360 I mean it's it's it's a major issue for me oh I I no I agree and I and I appreciate you trying to handle it but it and I'm not it just seems like it falls on death ears when when you leave here I mean you're probably doing what you have to do but it either gets kicked down the road or someone's not doing what they're supposed to do that traffic doesn't the that renovation right and it should also be looked at what they're call calling the a correct and that's my that's my concern too what's driving call I want to know what what are they calling or do they just need to transport to the hospital and they're calling right so exactly and I will look at that sorry thank you and just my last question um regarding the radio survey is anything is there any movement in that at all not I've not done anything that I will be doing something just not that I I I was talking to Chief D about it day and he said there he hasn't received anything or any calls or anything yeah no I have not done anything with and if in fact this was to move forward in a in a favorable we will request written in there yeah and I've agreed to that that just follow up I haven't heard anything yeah you have agreed to that Council I have radio Sur on new and prev new and current that was what was agreed upon the radio survey was agreed upon on the new building and the old for the current facility so entire facility so let me ask the question are you okay with me doing the current building now and then once we're we've completed the other building if we go forward um having that that that's absolutely whe whether the board says yay or nay it's just that the current building needs needs to have it any so a safety absolutely okay before you step down Council I have a of the witness I have a a question for him please we listen to Residents raas the fact that in the current parking configuration where your employees or hanging out you know hang have lunch Whatever by these rocks or whatever okay um I know you're not there I know I know that and and I'm s that however what can be done let me ask a question first before I get into the back part area where you know with that garbage area I kept hearing I I what they had said that was the employee Point am I correct in that yes okay so if the employees are hanging out or whoever is hanging in the front part by these Stones along the property line of Notting how what can you do in your capacity to mitigate that so in my capacity I have the ability to go to the owners and which I'm going to be doing after this and explain to to them this was brought up and this is something that's going to have to be controlled by the on-site administrators which we have two of there's one on the assistant living side and there's one on the nurs as well um that's ultimately their responsibility uh to provide supervision and Leadership for our employees it sounds like they so it's your testimony that that you will go to these people go to your administrators and work to enforce this I don't know I don't know what this well this this was upon the last meeting too is anything done yes within sense yes we did I had I had I had one single conversation but we'll be having all right we have any more question I'd like to try to get to the root cause of this why why we why we've gone so much higher than with previous own I need to find out why I have to find out what the re what is the reason so that I've got to find the root cause and once that root cause is found then I can deal with the issue it comes across like privil why would we go forward I understand and I hear EX exactly what you're saying um again what I can do is I can go back to the leadership of the of the community and I I have to find out whys what are the are they just calling aunte M of the public if you have any further questions Mr kilor based upon this limited reopening of his testimony now will be the time to come up with those limited questions bring it back okay okay um all right back to war open board me wish list of conditions and if all the conditions are met that is great I just have very little comfort that those can be monitored executed um to give us Comfort it might be able to be done for a month or so but um being familiar with the property um I'm just not sure how you're going to enforce any of the stipulations and requests that I and there's no thing to say that it went from 60 to whatever the P was 63 to 169 and where does it go just everybody knows I mean this is not like rock the nonprofit organization supp good seems like an all testimony like the southide trash all to work out west fening and then the last side removal of parking privacy but like the greater issue we all wanted to do the right thing is the facility like like are light Mr maybe this is a good time for me to read the record while the board's deliberating the conditions that we discussed to date as being applicant amenable and board required if they are going to consider this in a favorable light Mr CH may I please do thank you so I'm I'm going to run these office through but I'm glad to give you share with you my notes on these condition should this move forward so we can cross reference during resolution but as you read yes pardon me for interrupt yeah as you read it like I would like to hear okay we're good with this or no or just want to read them readily agreed to them yeah and then we could find two I don't I did not capture anything in here but for a few tonight that I have question marks next to which I'll get to at the tail end um every other one had already been affirmatively consented to by the applicant in some form another the prior to hearing so I'm going to go relatively fast Mr Ruben and members we discussed the gate to remain closed and only used for emergencies hbac units to be screened the radio survey which we discussed tonight existing and the new structure um we discussed um uh stipulation that the uh renderings that were provided were an accurate presentation of the building color materials that will be actually built in the field it wouldn't be a bait switch if you will we talked about the NightLight field test to be conducted post build out of the addition um in that regard we talked about the exterior lighting um has to be the of course LED dimable Andor turned off overnight if they can be for safety purposes uh this is all following the look back post buildout field test sight lighting adjacent to the residential areas temperatures to be 3,000 Kelvin storage pods to be removed post Construction we talked about utilizing best efforts to seek an alternative street address designation for the property I realize that's difficult Mr rubben we're undergoing it right now on behalf of carvon and another town my associate spent half a year and still is nowhere um could be her it could be the town it could be the USPS I don't know but it's very difficult I understand that but the applicant will have to utilize best efforts to modify the street adjust officially to have it designated as a route 17 address if possible and I think you should share with the the board the efforts on behalf of the applicant undertaken that so we know that those efforts were properly exhausted new signage to be illuminated by ground lighting sources um should be assigned for employee parking for the new building trash compactor to be utilized during business hours only so let's call that 8 to5 or so um update the plans per the board reports I think that's sort of a a high level condition you'll have to do and this includes when I limited to Mr re request to adjust the proper female elevations and confirmation that there's no activity with the regulated areas um coordinate with the water of utility provider regarding the uh easement amendments that are going to be needed you'll have to do that anyway add Landscaping the screen the refu area to the satisfaction of the board professionals that was discussed at a prior hearing before this was relocated um Mike I may need your help with this we talked about tying the trash compactor into a system if needed to mitigate smell impacts I seeping through the the containers I mean sounds like you know it's on it hopefully it's operated for oh there's a compact think that was the comp oh yeah you're right you're right that's comp that's that comes out so uh moving on the storm water management final design has to be addressed to to um address the increase in law coverage it's all subject to FAL approval the board engineer and then compliance with regulations in any event um applicant to utilize private service provider for the transport ambulance needs the areas near the emergency entrance must be cleaned to maintain this is going to go for the entirety of the perimeter of the property we'll discuss that shortly based on tonight's conditions uh as be a knoxbox block on the emergency gate we talked about employees being prohibited from loitering and and we didn't get yeah that's that was tonight I'm going through older ones we talked about first I'm working the way there um we discussed employees being prohibited from loitering uh we can expand upon this language and I probably will in the parking areas along the perimeters of the property during their breaks or otherwise that seems to be a significant issue with the neighbors and concern the board Ming on to what we discussed this evening adding the SOS box to the gate for the First Response use it's going to be siren oper that's addition to the KNX box uh and the gate will be tied into the facility generator as well we talked about a fence replacement along the western side yard lot line with a now this was chain link we discussed already but it was Brown vinyl cladding was required at a six foot top height um and splatted was what I heard a few board members request after we discussed that yeah that was requested during some of our discussions board members suggested it be slatted that they may feel otherwise but that's a not was the point of making it Brown vinyl blend in and then it wouldn't be slatter that's when you say Brown vinyl you mean solid fence that correct that's that's what I understood was requested I need to hear the SLS okay Bri Brown it's open open you're still going to see yes you set back W from all right I don't know can I can I handang on that one second yeah yeah sure we come back this is this is just disc back to that one certainly subject to Fire official final review of the plan as modified regarding adequate access and circulation on site you have your templates on there we don't think it'll be an issue but but it's going to be embodied as condition all construction vehicles must access the site through Route 17 um we talked about a potential earlier installation of the western lot fencing if Poss possible we realize it's tough to commit to it during instruction but we did discuss that this evening we'll see if the board decides to act on that item or not Ruben um certain lights in the parking areas should be investigated as to whether they be timed and or on motion sensors this is to be determined in the field evaluation post build and it's specifically along the lot line areas contiguous to the residential lots West and Northern side as we discussed most time we're going to eliminate the 12 spaces on the Northern end of the site abiding the Nottingham residences and that area to be supplemented with Landscaping subject for professional review and approval the Landscaping buffer along the northern lot line shall be along the entire Frontage subject to for professional riew and approval applicant to submit a a landscape plan uh and the plantings are going to be a minimum of 6 to8 feet tall at the time of planting and the species is is to be determined confirmed by the import professionals well quantities um the last item I have here is I think probably still up for discussion board members uh we talked about somehow limiting First Response services to more appropriate emergencies who defines that is incredibly subjective and hard to do and then the alternative suggestion was an ambulance to be located on site for a duration of time per day to mitigate the impacts to the volunteer service providers that we already discussed are being inundated um and that was it I may have missed something board members if I did or Mr snik Mr greeland but those are the conditions we discussed throughout the course of the three public hearings to date Council one thing just to be clear we are eliminating 12 spaces from the plan or rewarding it eliminating eight existing and taking the four that are proposed in the plan yeah the entirety of 12 12 on the Northern end are gone four of which are existing eight of which are proposed that will be removed from the ultimate just to make sure we had that they called what About The South about parking spaces in the South so yes we did not we talked about it and then we were like and then we said we were come back to that so yes I would like to see those spots reconfigure the two spots as long as we have that per and then use so the board's preference be to go I guess with option one or two right dumpster iner in the parking lot property line yes sorry and then I guess if that's the case we eliminate all the spots that were trying to be preserved or try to provide as many spots as possible in my notes that I took for myself I would like I I want to see area for the disposal where it's proposed here and then I would like to see if possible a reconfiguration of the box with whatever other vegetation as part of his screen that needs whatever you and Mr syus agree that would help mitigate that part while the residential side whatever configuration work it sounds like at least from your perspective you prefer to go with dumpster in mid dumpster in the middle yes and and just to clarify you be adding minimally two spaces I just so we know what the total number of spaces would be throwing after the two spaces and now if I'm eliminating 12 at the other side right and and I'm taking away six at the bottom at least I can get back even though we have an abundance so the L overall would be wait 12 plus six again got two 16 16 16 12 North and four South four South that's or and those two spots become parallel as long as it doesn't hurt the I think you can still make a all right as I it was Say Fire H yeah have to work around the access that iard members that's just that part of it okay then I want to but but there's some I don't want to overly burden the um the applicant but I I I need I need clarification around Council if I if I may trying to use words my memory of what you said what is best efforts I need I I I need some level of definition okay so so let me I'll explain this further you can't compel an applicant to comply with the condition that requires third- party compliance it's not enforceable the courts have said it's un enforceable so if the condition read the applicant shall obtain a new street address for the property the Route 17 address period That's a condition that could be challenged by the applicant because it requires third party compliance that third party is not party to this proceeding so best efforts it's it's term of art it's very commonly used the conditions of approval the best efforts is is something that's going to be judged ultimately by the professional staff and the board members when they're in post post approval compliance did they get the R 17 address or is still har it and still har it in why what did they do well they did X Y and Z the question of whether X Y and Z was enough and that was truly best efforts is what the Board needs to consider at that point to say the app enough you have to try more but it can't be a shall a compel a must in this instance for third party is there a time limit that could replace what are we on six months right now with carvana yeah I mean it takes a while USPS is not terribly Cooper gotta keep trying C in other words in other words if it doesn't happen in six months I don't want to stop they should just keep trying however said it have been trying for six months and they have been unsuccessful so I don't want to put a time limit on fact that they're their their effort should continue until successful told by the Postal Service know I looked at Apple apps I looked at Google Maps I look at things Apple um directions go to Route 17 when you address out the change Google same thing the it brings you to Route 17 but the address has to change the address can't change no it says 85 hers correct that's the address so but ways have to change we can't change the address without person Postal Service permitting us to do that so it will always be 85 hared until the Postal Service says yes we agree to change the 1700 17 whatever whatever until this time the address will be 8 by there's nothing we can do about that and the requirement to use best efforts might be Perpetual in a way I mean eventually you exhaust all remedies you can only get so much you know when they tell you no give me a call okay I only want a sweet number I don't even want a new address and they told me yes four months ago I still don't have it okay so I think I I'm I'm advice the counsel I'm satisfied with that you know I understand I have to ask the question understand okay and it should be clarified what that means absolutely okay all right so I'm satisfied with that part being done okay the next thing um Perhaps Perhaps there was some um misunderstanding of the term Brown vinyl platting versus being open with vinyl plaing versus black plaing versus being solid vinl so how do we want to discuss this board members they're two different fences and then the next thing becomes if you do if you do BR vinyl find bom pled fencing then do you slat it also to help mitigate before we go can I just ask a question please should the gate visible through it I know but but but would the would would Emergency Services want to be able to the SE to the other side of the gate I would be fine with the chain of fence with slap room and that's the only way you're going to get a solid fence you can't put ax and have it okay but then I think what I'm hearing counil ask is if we went that way the fence at the gate the gate the movable gate do we clad that I'm sorry do we do we slap that or do we leave it open side of the they don't need to be able to see on the other side of the fence when they arrive I I could I could ask that question could you do that and just get back to me on that we could make that if this goes Council if if you're am thank you to that a then either way well well you know we can make it a condition kind of we want to accommodate emergency services to do what they think is best okay my understanding For Pet's experience is because they want these open they want to be able see what's going on on the other side when they arrive particularly fire department and so that's my understanding but I'm not a emergency service so then we're back to are we okay with that play in I mean if you're going to do that you might as well make it black because I think you have a much easier time to find black flat slats and BR flats are going be very different to identify and standard is black and so I think that if you want slats it should be a black vinal fence black SL that's just I mean not vyl fence black fence with black SL that's I'm just telling you what I know from and you rais that um I recall seeing him in brown dark brown even the lockable I defer to him I swear going do a quick search keep deliberating people alternative say brown if it's available black that'll find it for you just make lost a lot of money everything else is throw that one on the pl most of the notes I mean I I listen to everything that Mr C put forth here you know I'm also around this old oering thing I'm gonna I would have to defer to the you know to the administration I I know it's very hard to i i people like in summertime want to go outside and get some fresh air I mean you can't really people locked in their in the building 247 they get breaks they're they're probably our employees have right to right you can't put a bur right how do how do you solve that problem or is there a place that they could go like the part the part that's closer to to I don't know I don't start open up but but you know if they work in that northern part of the building and they want to go step outside for a 10minute break they're not going to spend five it walking to the southern side of the building and then five walking back that's an administrative issue right that's not a residential issue it's not and it's not a board issue that's the problem you can't really you can't really tell people no loitering on your own property by your employees what does that really mean whatever whatever Administration tells you to TI got a no but is loitering them being outside for five minutes to smoke a little cigarette outside the window where what what what constitutes lawyering how long do they have to be outside be lawyering versus just taking a breath there I mean I I in my office building employees walk the parking lot to get their quotequote steps in they throw their garbage FR here I won't talk to you about the garbage dumpster in that when my office but but besides that the point that you know I mean what what constitutes loitering really what constitutes loitering I think it's TI into the location know but but I mean people people sit outside they work all the time all the time to get fresh air it's part of the it's part of like Health you want people to get outside and get cigarettes and throwing beer bottles and garbage on theg ground that's heal no you may Wellness wait I'm not here to argue with you please but I'm trying to understand what what kind of limitation you're talking about there's one thing that this is an 11 acre property and there's you know there's garbage end up on 11 acre property no matter where you may be probably and do they have to do a better job of cleaning it up yes it's not it's not on your property it is on our property it's on their property you heard them say keep your trash on your property well that's what this yes but you're not and you can't enforce it that's our problem who can enforce it not our problem your problem I mean canfor yes we're gonna try we're gonna try to we're gonna do the best we can but the question is the best you can is it good enough that's the problem sir everything we' has to do in the last three months none of it's done I don't know if I agree with that he just we just said we had someone come at 6: in the morning to do D you said that was going to stop last time you said they G to get the radio things checked that didn't get done at all that's you're for two two months we don't have an approval yet how can we approve something when you've got zero success on the things we missed please listen to me listen to me please understand something we're here to get application to build an addition we understand that there are administrative issues that need to be resolved probably just like there are in every facility like this in the state of New Jersey so yes we will endeavor to do that but let me let let me make something clear those are not land use issues those are not issues that that resolve around whether or not this application has the right to be approved or not what they are about are administrative problems and those administrative problems should be enforced by your the enforcement authorities for the buau which are the construction official the the Public Works official Etc I understand this Sports frustration believe me I'm a board attorney I understand where you're coming from I understand how you want this site to be improved I want I understand how you would want this site to be Immaculate however unlikely that may be but the fact of the matter is is it's their job to do the best they can and if they don't do it and you have enforcement authorities in town to crack down on them to make them do it but that is not part of a board approval well it's a mitigating Factor on your D2 use variance case but it's not because the expansion has nothing to do with that the expans is in the South part of the building what you have now now you're asking to double the space we're not doubling the space in fact we're reducing the number of beds you don't think the ambulance has a negative you don't think the ambulance the burden ambulance doesn't it negatively impact the volunteer cour only if it's related to this application let me if if if if for some reason this application would compound that problem the answer but reducing the number of beds so the question the question is the question right and someone needs to deal with that but by denying this are you going to solve that problem or are they going to just ignore you then because why would they need to cooperate with you at that point I'm worried even if we doove it that it's not gonna give well you know what I to be perfectly honest with you and it's a shame this isn't a PL board because I believe this is an issue that the that the mayor and the governing body need to get involved with with my clients and ask for a meeting with them with people who know this area and read them the riot app and I will and and if Mr Cali calls me up and asks me to arrange that kind of meeting with the mayor I will do so but that's how this issue is resolved because it's an imposition on a public service that is under the jurisdiction of the governing body and not this board and yes I understand your concerns and I think they are more than legitimate and in fact a little bit shocking but but by but by denying this application you're not going to solve that problem the only way to solve this problem is through the governing body of this municipality and probably Ramsey because I believe it's a share is it a shared emergency ambulance service that's even works so so that's what has to happen Council I I sit up here I've been I'm not doing it I've been do but I've been up here a long I'm I'm sorry sorry and I pr myself you my friends asked me a lot why I do this okay and they asked me how we come to decisions and I always say that you know I have to take into consideration what's good for for the town first off what's good for the applicant what's good for the borrow what's good for the resident okay and I weigh all this a lot and I and and and you know within the confines of the law what we can do very careful with the comments that I made outside of sitting up here um I have to share agreement with some of my board members okay M Mr marel he just he just made a comment you know and and I don't want to escalate this thing crazy and I do hear everything you said about the powers of this board and what they can what they can do but he did raise something you know it's like three months ago two months ago this came out and you know just to go first and and again I appreciate his position but some stuff hasn't been resolved even though said that it would be resolved so to your point it's not necessarily sir something that is within the powers of this board Council okay there's part of it based on what you just said that I would I would almost say I I would like to delay voting offs until some of these things that the board has raised whether it's in the board's perve or not are dressed with as you pointed out the council for the for the the enforcement body of the burrow and understand that before and then bring it back to the board with an understanding that there's been certain agreements here that satisfi not only the board the burrow and the residents of both Allandale and Ramsey okay and then I also bring in there too you know I was not aware of the data that that that was just presented thought where this number went up and I know you were blindsided yeah yeah okay so that has to be resolved that has to be resolved I no argument for me my for my client so there's there's there's part of me Council that I would almost say that I want to see some of the stuff resolv before you're comfortable comfortable Lo especially you know I can't see bettered I know it's not what you want to hear coun I know it's not what you want to hear but I know I understand and unfortunately because you're coming before the board and asking for this application to be approved okay unfortunately that as part of this as part of the testimony from the residents and the questions from the board kind of opened it up to now there's some things that we're going to prove this thing you know there's some situations that we have here that the board and residents and perhaps our Council if it's presented that way need to have resolved whether it's part of this application of just building a building in simple terms or not I think that the larger question Mr Rubin that that may work in you and your client's interest here if you do not pass the board to include deliberation and vote this evening because it's clear where we go I think the bigger issue that's unresolved is the ambulance inquiry because there was a question posed to Mr kilor as to whether or not he's explored a limited time per day where an ambulance could be located on site whether that was economically feasible for the applicant to explore Mr kilr said they actually hadn't done that so maybe it's in the applicant's best interest to actually consider that because that seems to be out of all these conditions one of the quite larger ones and one that was raised tonight based upon this data that's worth consideration so who For Thought us to whether or not you'd like to conclude this evening with the vote or not um it's your application if you say you want to vote tonight um you concluded your Ace and chief you're entitled to a board vote I course don't know where it goes we have five of course chairman please oh I'm sorry yes yes please oh that m e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right everybody who's here we're back on the record okay Council yeah giving you the floor thank you um obviously the board has raised some legitimate concerns about the operations the ongoing operations at the site that need to be resolve clarify and correct um I'm asking the board to give us time to do that obviously it's the holiday season and January probably be too quick I think February 12 makes sense um I think we can accomplish what we to accomplish just so the board knows that's my intention to bring back on operations whether that's Mr Kil course Mr Kil course someone else or just someone else pen bonding answers that I get in the intering time period only only Administration I um I can I can agree to that I just kind of going on I would appreciate at least and if somebody yes yes no no no it won't be me it will be still will be at Mr Kill course and someone else or just someone else but there will be someone here from operations who will be able to testify as the steps they have taken to correct the meas the concerns that the board has identified during the course of this year okay Council give me one moment board what you just heard pardon me sir what we just heard um are we as members of the board I'm comfortable with what council just presented is there any I'm just gon discuss got is there any conversation or we good with this I'm with them coming back the way Council just present okay please before before we just two quick housekeeping things we discussed a document tonight that was not in a record Mr Ruben I'd like to mark this for the record as B1 and it's the Allendale nursing home and assisted living statistics 2008 through 2024 with the ambulance visit count to the facility that was discussed during the testimony can I ask you in favor can can someone scan that and email it sir so that I can make sure the client hasn't soon as I have a digital copy I will get it over to then if you don't need this one that would be great we'll get it to you and then the last thing um we're going to go to February 12th is the applicant consent for board to act through that date yes thank you to the end of February just in case very good councel the pictures just just I'm sorry because you just introduced this they need to the the uh neighbor still has the exhibit that was marked as um 01 yeah and I think the board's going to have to retain 01 because yeah the board the board will need to retain it and she understands that I explain that to her okay so where she has you possession of that she'll give it to Lind okay okay I just want I want it now I want it now thank you ma'am okay councel good this way this way that's at least this way that's at least part part of the record okay yeah you know Mike when I want to put can of worms when you come back it's very limited but if your engineer can amend the plans for our discussion tonight of things that were consented to and at least send in a digital copy for perhaps Mr reeland to review and us to confirm that those cleanup items have been performed no problem maybe you know you you have two months maybe that okay taking prevote but and and and and I'm going no we're going to put the tree we're going to put show we're going to show the the elimination of the the 12 spaces in the north and trees there instead we going to show the two parallel spaces in the South and the trees buffering spaces in hopefully the okay and look it's not incumbent upon you to make these changes now it's completely you know you ask we'll do it but Reas it might only help and and you know what maybe we'll figure out other other changes to employees on the site hit place the employ employees can do their thing outside without they're going to be superficial enough I think that your operator can offer the testimony to hear and for any questions I do I think you could dispense with Mr jeer is returning they'll probably be high level items I suspect by then we answer get built course we'll get we'll get information on thank we got to resolve what kind of fence did we disolve five black or brown you can get brown you can get brown brown it is like one last item I think it's clear but but just to be certain Mr Kil course and his colleagues are going to explore the viability the economics and the pragmatic reality of locating an ambulance on this facility or not we will come back with an answer as to whether or not you can or cannot do that and why I think the board is expecting that just just to be certain Mr course believe we can work with the administration now come up with a solution that satisfi it needs to be Sol and you had no other or so I so you know the other and I work together thank you I'm comfortable with this board members any further discussion okay I don't have to open any of this do I would you make an announcement that we're carrying it a motion and a vote all you need is a motion and a vote car for the members of the public that are here in a moment we're going to conclude the matter this evening the applicant will be returning February 12 is that the date yes no February 12th the applicant is not required to re notice for that hearing as they were not for the last public hearing so this is your notice of that next meeting same time same location on February 12 2025 um and you can reappear then and we will see you folks in the New Year happy holidays all CH one other question to reorganized on Janu January Jan are we going to lose board members no we're 100% sure that Y for the people that are here right now yes I would say 99% for the people that are sitting up here on the board right now because of the variant you know would not having Council people out here or members of the this is this is the Z no that's a great question want to make sure that we didn't have to start all over again or that we didn't have to get scripts no retire done and then and then I'll help you the people who are here will be part of this February talk great all right thank you so we're not we're just you're gonna do a motion to adjourn this till the 12th of February motion to without further notice and at all times straint s okay Council we good with what you just said to that's exactly what exactly and all we need to do a Voice vote is fine okay Linda all those all those those in favor say i n seeing done Harry's holidays everyone enjoy yourselves thank you very much members of the public thank you appreciate it have a great holiday everybody professionals all right bringing it back here anything else that needs to be discussed any question or comments from the public seeing none bringing it back motion to close the meeting second