##VIDEO ID:m_tGIanxeyk## this is a regular meeting of the Allandale L use board at which formal action will be taken on the items listed on the agenda and upon any other matters which may properly come before the land use report the requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied through posting on the public bulletin board in a municipal building and on the burrow website and by publication in the record on December 29th 2023 with copies being sent to the Ridgewood news certain agenda items will be open to the public for comment Andor testimony the board will advise the public when such matters are open for the comment Andor testimony all right before we uh have a call have a roll call can we uh all stand and join me in soling the flag please I pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible thank you everybody for coming uh Linda can we have a roll call please Vice chairwoman Bergen here board member Wala here board member patrino here board member goo here councilman J absent board member uh board member Dow here chairman too here mayor wiin yes alterate here and alterate Cony is absent okay thank you all right next on our agenda is approval of minutes from the November 13 2024 L use meeting um I reviewed them gave my comments to Linda are there any other comments on the notes as passed out okay seeing none can I have a motion from the board to accept the meeting minutes of November 13 2024 please make I'll make a motion thank you second I'll second okay Vice chairwoman Bergen yes board member Garo yes board member D yes chair yes may yes yes all right we're going to move on to a resolution from the past meeting uh applicant file number 20 24-14 resolution 24-20 the applicant of Cate Brady and Jason fil 7 Brookside Avenue in Allendale 07401 block 1705 flot 15 the application for was for the expansion of an existing non-conforming structure on an irregularly sh irregularly set flag lot rear yard setback pursuant to 27057 D and 27037 a parentheses to um five okay um anybody on the board have any questions relative to the resolution okay seeing none can I have a motion to accept the resolution make a motion to accept thank you second second thank you Vice chairwoman ber yes board member yes board member D yes chman too yes mayor wasinski yes open Butler yes okay thank you all right and now we're going to move into the to the public part of our uh of our meeting tonight um the first thing that we have on here is a continuation from Mr Snus on the hazard vulnerability assessment study of the master plan sir I turn it over to you thank you Mr chairman good good evening everyone um I do have a presentation that I'll be referencing on the screen if I can get it to wake up sure and the purpose for tonight's meeting is to go over What's called the hazard vulnerability assessment study uh and the land use plan of the master plan we won't be talking about the land use plan specifically tonight but what's qu required according to the statutory criteria whenever you look to amend or adjust your land use plan it's now mandatory that municipalities have to adopt a hazard vulnerability assessment study and when you look at that that what we're looking to do is to review any potential hazards uh due to a changing climate to the municipality and whether or not it should influence any of the goals and objectives or any of the land use regulations that we currently have in our standards make sure this is working course was working I'm trying to do a a remote session here would it help one of us first yes technology there we go back anyway so the hazard vulnerability study first it looks we analyze the current future current and future threats to the municipality associated with changes to the natural environment um in addition to that you catching it I can hear him yes it's up to the public if anybody's here Public public okay any also that quickly on to that there are some projections repr that also lower girl what e 3 yeah e better than are col that okay and that runs with gleer is coming from no no the the Brunswick a few few years ago we were talking about water coming from like the Sterling Forest Area and there was all of those restrictions that were coming but that's all part of but also I know still consider for next one is qual that my bu this MCH shows where and there two examples pardon me for interrup there two examples the trust good also looking at conratulations I about around population how for go sor apologies if I missed it solar okay that's Z alter that I was just going to open up public if there's any questions on what you just heard question all right bringing it back all right thank you so our next steps Next Step that thank you sir okay um I am going to take the liberty of modifying our agenda um I'd like to move to hear application filed 20248 for Calvary Lutheran because I think that um we could we could hear that first before we get into the U the new Street application so you would be so kind to accommodate okay please thank you Mr chairman that would be great for us entering uh my appearance on the record John vet 3 University Plaza sweet 207 in hackensac uh nice seeing everyone this is a little bit of a trip down memory lane that I was not part of uh but looking at the historical record I see that there was a major preliminary subdivision approval approved back in March of 2012 and there was a final approval back in August of 2014 uh I think the applicant may have been uh represented by Bruce Whitaker at that time so the homes have all been built the street is there there are okay go ahead I'm sorry okay sure Mr chairman hi Larry sorry no problem so the streets there uh functioning very nicely there's three beautiful homes that were built subdivided uh off of the U Calvary Church property uh there remain some items in the resolution that um that we've looked at we've spoken to um the residents there we've spoken with the engineer we have our engineer here this evening David fantina and just to summarize the relief that we're seeking this evening uh it's the four items that we noticed with so it's the relief from constructing a sidewalk along Iver Road relief from installing the split rail fence in the rear of lot 2.01 relief from planting further additional trees along couch court and relief from installing the street lights a couch Court uh Mr fantina is going to run through and has prepared an exhibit to run through the changes to as to where they are answer questions of the board and board professionals as well as members of the public so with that said I'd like to introduce our first and only witness David fantina yeah John while you're getting your engineer ready just just to confirm you and I discussed this you were amending conditions of a prior approval you had to notice for that you did your notice in order uh thank you we can now SAR in your one and only witness I Stone correct sir would you mind raise your right hand please would you please state your name for the record and spell your last name David fantina fs and Frank a n TI n a you swear or affirm the testimony you'll provide us the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do would you brought for your qualifications please yes I've never actually appeared before this board before but I am a professional engineer licensed in the state of New Jersey I've been licensed since 1987 been the proprietor of uh Fantan engineering since 2001 routinely appeared before board around the state I also was not involved in the um original plans uh tore was here tonight actually did the plans um but I did do the grading plans for the present owner that's was how my involvement in the project came about and your licenses are C than a good standing Jersey absolutely is thank you accept please thank I'm sorry please okay Dave if you would uh maybe run through U an overview of your um exhibit showing the changes and where they are the very very was this file John this she no so we should ENT this so we'll mark this as A1 with today's date please Mr if you could just identify it by title for the record please should the board approve these changes then we would update it formally and then submit them as possible one one the that Sol property also second one third one has to do with then the fourth one was addition thank you no further questions Mr fanty I I was on this one we spent it like over a year okay um the split real fence is really the one that I'm panging on there's even though split real fence is not necessarily St fense but it would provide can just point out members of the board as well for myself exactly where that fence like would that fence be yeah from what I understand Mr chairman that was installed the the the the safety fence where there's an inclination that was installed that was inst yeah and I believe there okay believe Mrs uh uh Goldberg uh has that fence on her property I there was some ambiguity as to whether there was additional fencing required the resolution says lot 2.01 the safety issue for the conveyance of the house was for the fence that is installed on lot 2.02 perhaps there was an error in the resolution so what we're seeking tonight is for there be for there to be no further fencing that would be installed and we've received nothing from njp asking for anything further with respect to the buffer area I mean my concern purely I remember some I went back I could buy just be careful of the what I call that was what but that's already fence and there's no there's no change yeah this the split rail fence was for the buffer area as a requirement from J DP because of the wetlands okay yeah if I may pleas please please chairman so the required SCH fence around the detention Bas has been there was a fencing that was installed residential line I think there was CH ra on board but you know that fencing was stol fencing that we had pointed out that was missing was associated with the modified Wetlands transition area on the church property I don't know if the board had the ability to weigh that request because I think that came in as part of perfect I I you know the applicant was able to get a letter P indicating that that's what Ro PR is no necessary you know that may be something that the consider but it's my understanding that that's Ro PRS was Associated specifically with the permit that was on that it best the board to do board is inclined to Grant the Rel connection that f is it's going to be subject to other agency review just like every other application that's subject to maybe County review or D or do this will be subject to a secondary sign off from that agency that has jurisdiction before it can be in yeah we would be in agree yeah we would be in agreement with that that the township has no objection but to the extent that another regulatory agency whether it's DP or someone else says that we must do it then we'll have to do it any any any questions comments um just clarify I know when this was originally um come to Bo but like the reasons why the who aren't constructing the sidewalk um I mean the street light is probably you know that I'm sure the um residents may not that right in front of the house but what are some of the other I know we went over the fence but just kind of more history in yeah I mean just to go in order I believe the sidewalk was virtually a sidewalk to Nowhere as it was explained to me that it just there was no utility to it uh we spoke about the split rail feds the additional trees if you travel the culdesac there's ample I'm not even sure where we would put them it's just a practical matter of where to actually plant additional trees substantial Landscaping was put on all the individual trees upon the conveyance and subsequent to that I mean these homes were conveyed maybe five years ago four years ago um there's you know substantial now pretty mature Landscaping there we just don't know where we would install it especially in that there's no individual sidewalks there we would plamp in the middle um and then with respect to the street lights we can let the residents speak for themselves it's my and I don't speak for the residents but my understanding that they didn't want a light at the top of the cult saac which is where it was proposed safety issues well I mean if I could just maybe just clarify so I I believe the I I I agree that there was you know Landscaping sold on each of the individual concept part ofation I I believe the Landscaping that has not been inor it's to go in the gold St on the right hand side the side yard of of the house that was existing at the time sub was perect I think that house may be associated with church I I wasn't I believe it was I wasn't part of the application I don't have the whole history but at least the plans that I have that were provided in file indicate that there was going to be some buffer Landscaping you went into Old the left hand side along the side I'm sorry on the right hand on the right hand side to the left to the left yes please two question one excuse me one with respect to the relief of the trees I'm sure that at the time since I wasn't present either we know how many trees were removed because usually if there's a list of trees are removed there the reason why we requested certain amount of trees to be replanted very considerable amount of trees removed when they I think the resolution said something like 123 trees I think there were substantial trees that were removed on the lot and there was a tree plan how many trees are you looking for Relief five six 10 is there a number one of the engineers may be able to answer that better than I would I don't think it was a tremendous amount that's the point I mean if you took out 120 trees and you're looking for Relief to maybe maybe regl a half a dozen I don't know that was the existing home you understand what we're saying we usually when when there's an application like this and you're you're clear cutting in order to create three lots there's a reason why the board would have asked for a concession to have a certain trees replanted and now you're sing back to the Lea so I I personally had a problem with that in addition a sidewalk that you're setting goes to Nowhere that that sidewalk extends the existing Ada ramp that was installed by the county at the intersection of West cres and I or does it just stop so correct so because you created three new homes how do those people navigate to that crosswalk or that intersection there without having any sidewalk there's another reason for the sidewalk to be installed there because you have two active Ada ramps on either side of that intersection so we're just going to propose potentially the kids that are in those homes that just walk in the street find their way to the handicap ramp and cross bu pressing I don't know if that would be certainly ideal as well yeah I'm not sure if there two things on the trees of course there were substantial trees planted this is just the Delta this is just whatever is and I'm not sure if it's six trees eight trees uh we just didn't know where to plant them and if the if the burrow has a shade tree commission like maybe there could be a donation of trees to the shade tree commission or we can get some guidance from your engineer as to where to actually plant okay but yeah it's just B like I'm not sure yeah in terms of the in terms of the quantity like just to get some guidance so we can um we can proceed on that issue it looks like there was six CH trees proposed along the front edge of lot 1703 and some additional ever shrubs in they propos the 10 foot right away or we uh actually on just outside so I mean that's the location was pretty much identified it's just fact they weren't planted yet yeah they we have we just have to look at it and see what's you know what's grown there since what what is there if there's availability to put them there that's that's really a minor issue and whether that uh really the sidewalk I don't know how you you you have two active Ada ramps that were installed by the candid so I don't know how you so with respect to to with respect to the sidewalk and I ask the engineers to chime in here as well I'm not sure that it was going to connect if you show the sidewalk the section that was in front of iers let me just take a look at the um at the resolution if it connects the commissioner makes a good point I mean if if it doesn't connect connect I don't disagree but if it connects which I don't see why it wouldn't connect just show just show it on there because I I believe it was only in front of the area where the detention Bas is they show it going to to the cross street cuz that was part the overall coup correct but they do show no the question is was that the obligation of the applicant the obligation of the applicant then there's nothing to discuss I thought the obligation of the applicant was just in front of the area of the U the detention Basin of that that subdivided lot the applicant was the applicant applicant owned the proper on the property mest yes you're saying the church yes yes they were the ones that came before us it was a church who came before wishing to subdivide the land so therefore this would fall on to their which would take it all the way out yeah and there there is a note here actually about the loss of some parking spaces as a result of that which would yes they were right so that would um so that would go to the commissioner's point that the sidewalk would be so so so we'll we'll we'll amend this to reflect um at this point but we're down to the discussion of the light and um the trees tell us where to plant them we plant but there's room to plant them elsewhere in the burrow we'll plant the six trees and then down to the issue of the street light that was the last all right I mean one street light safety issues mean I haven't heard I haven't heard of anything points raised by of stre at members of the members who live on the street and again I don't speak for them I think they have their own thoughts as to this issue and I don't know if that's persuasive for the board I I will call I will call them up I just is there any comment or any other questions any comments on this from I mean I'm I'm I'm I I always hung up on the fence to be franking on but I can I can look be on that now but we discuss the sidewalk from the tree standpoint um I I would I would say that um that you work with borrow engineer on that okay sure all right likea yeah I'm that okay be it on this curious to see what maybe some of the res have and then we listen to Tre sound like a great idea but I've been involved in applications and other places where Tre had turned out to be problem okay not we could find another spot sure we could thank you mayor okay okay okay I'm going to open this up for any questions comments of this witness and anything you've heard right now so please please M if you would if you would state your name um and your address please okay Holly Goldberg 5 P court and that's 2.02 okay is my property M Gober you expect to just ask questions or possibly offer statements and comments as well because we'll have to SAR you in if you're G to yes I definitely want to give a little update here let's swear you in for you okay you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you provide is the truth the whole truth that about the truth I do please proceed okay as far as the fence is concerned when I bought the house which was November 20 uh 20 so I was the last house finished on couch for there was an extremely ugly chain blink fence that was on my property I took it down and I put up and installed a much nicer fence and I had the survey come in and do everything you'll see on record I do have the permit with it fence so it's a lot nicer and it was for the protection of my grandchildren I'm not going down to where they watering retention okay as far as the sidewalk um like another Resident we all feel we do not want to and one of the reasons first of all on the corner of couch and Ivers there is no ramp picat rant Fe so anybody coming from Franklin to Cresent is walking in the street there's no sidewalks on either side there no sidewalks on either at all yes if you're going to put a sidewalk just there in front of the Basin who's going to maintain it we're having serious problems right now of responsibility for that thing now you were in history with it okay I was never told about any kind of responsibility when I bought my house that I had to be maintaining the Basin if you put a sidewalk there who's going to be shoveling it who's going to be responsible for the insurance of it now so that was huge question questions that's why we do not want to have the side as far as the street light perhaps one on the very edge of couch and iers so that lights up the street signs but we all came in we all put our own landscaping in we all put on our our light flood lights and everything else we're lit to our satisfaction of um if you're thinking of planting trees there's no water there there's no sprinklers there the existing five trees along the catch Basin where their fencing is and the top of their couch cour are dying they look horrible we Wen even thinking of pulling them out because they look so bad so if you're going to plant new and not have any kind of sprinkler system or anything in they're just going to die and then there going to be what more maintenance that I have to deal with well Street trees don't require it every there's municipalities that have shade tree programs they PL three to four to 500 trees and they don't require water they established so usually when they're planted the landscaper will put a gater bag on it they'll service the bag for a few months and once the tree takes there's it's just like any other Street tree so problem is that whatever they put whatever they put there D I don't what you put get you in and get species but that's why we would ask you work for our engineer to replace it because when someone comes before us in an application to remove 120 trees we're always looking at what's going to be planted back because we don't want properties just to be clearcut right well there there were also trees that were owned on by the church but we had the town helped me tell the church to cut them that dead so the limbs the thumps are still there but at least the danger of the limbs falling on people walking on iers is uh no longer exist so maybe they want to plant it there where there was existing trees closer to the church I think and I and I I could respect what you're saying about the sidewalk because if they're the maintenance would always fall on the property owner just like it does wherever else there sidewalk right if there sidewalk on the property falls on the the ownest falls on the property owner it's like that in every municipality in this case since you don't have a sidewalk that would basically dead end we're just sitting here you're there now if you're not you know in 100 years from now when you're not there that's what we look for is how does it become manageable for the residents there to navigate the West Cresent if you guys are comfortable walking in the street and that's what you want God bless you but that's we have to bring up because when someone's seeking relief right it's our responsibility because tomorrow if there's there's an accident where there's a safety issue we didn't bring it up we didn't do what we were supposed to do but what makes that part of the property difference than across the street or down the block because there's handicap ramps that are there that probably weren't there when the church was developed if you go back in history I'm sure that that corner when the church was developed there were no sidewalk with handicap ramps right so there was a federal mandate probably 20 years ago where the county had to come in and put in adaa ramps pretty much everywhere you probably saw them throughout the last 20 years going on every intersection so they probably weren't there previously when the church was developed so they were put there but the anticipation that one day when sidewalks are installed they would connect so people have a way of walking not in the street and that's you know there's hike and bike grants all over the state that promote that in this case you have a street that has no sidewalks on either side yet maybe bone for a while but ultimately those handicap grants were installed so that one day the sidewalks would be tied in but one day today that's why the initiative was started through the ada8 gr don't have the problem with the Bas but that's a whole another issue and I the Basin is part of which property so there yeah so there's a there is a history there the Basin was part of the church property and you know the subdivision approval and subsequent CL I think has some notes on it indicating that you know the Church where the owner of B1 was going to be responsible P benefits and then I believe someplace along the way there was transfer of ownership maybe to the developer that was constructing the project and as part of that transfer of ownership some of those obligations I think got transferred to the Builder and then ultimately prop all all of which you know it's it's not under the there was no application pery or review you know before the bo those kind of real estate transaction nobody ever told me then I'm part of the other two homeowners all three of us are supp that we took it upon on ourselves to cut the graph because it looked so bad so we pay out of profit for that but now we're seeing in the years that we're here the progression of the Basin it's not self-maintained and I just got an estimate for over $5,500 to put work into that Bas so that in years to come it will function as the way it's supposed to right now the cat sales are so overgrown that if we don't deal with that or well somebody doesn't deal with that down the road there's not going to be room for even the water so that's why we were thinking of all this thinkinking ahead for there the whole presentation here of the reason for the catch fa but who's responsibility need that I can tell you was was never contemplated to be the bur contemplated to be you know the development and it might very well be in your it might very well be in CH a title at some point if if the ownership is invested what's in there but but it might sorry if it's in a recorded instrument summer which very well might be prior entering into developers agreement if it would show up on your title when you acquired your property it's going to be buried somewhere in a very I understand you probably didn't see it but my guess it's probably in there somewhere yeah and actually into matter I'm not really prepared to speak on it like said well made very clear that not respons and it goes beyond your request Amendment at any rate it's it's not a detail you're seeking Amendment yeah that's everything iing your thank you on the [Music] ring all right again members of the public care to comment sir you care to say please if you be so kind M Rinko EXC r i n KO at nine nine couch would you please raise your right hand sir you swear affirm the testimony about to provide is the truth hold truth nothing up truth I do thank you um regarding the light if it's anywhere near my house I definitely don't want it so if it's at the front when you pull in that's fine but and we're lit up I spent the fortune on landscaping lights and all that that it is lit up well you can all drive by there no one's had complaints um if if it's as you pull in so you can see the street sign that's fine but we don't have any issues with any lighting down the end of the road she covered most of the stuff about the penion Basin and um the sidewalk my question to the sidewalk is all of iers doesn't have a sidewalk at all so would it be starting at Iris and finish or would someone be doing the entire it would look disjointed if it were just from there on so that was my only concern with that and then she mentioned who was going to maintain it I would obviously not want a sidewalk either trees are great if they survive Frank says if they can put something in it's not going to die that'd be great the ones we have there now all died so we were thinking about ripping them up but that's it I have any other any questions no no all right she covered all thank thank you thanks thank you okay any further questions comments on the public being done I bring it back to the questions I I could set the stage for we about the modifications John and the conditions and correct me from writing them down if the board acts favorably the non- installation defense will be subject to any requirements of any under through the jurisdiction here we flag the NJB as being that one correct um the trees if there's room we'll try to replant if not there might be a contribution Mr geland is going to review that with your engineer and your team that's from that post board action on this matter um and then that leaves the sidewalk that leaves the street LS for board action as we see it yeah it sounds like the residents U don't want um either understand their concern with respect to U maintenance and to commissioner petrino's comment it would fall that burden would fall on them at least for that that portion and potentially the church as well and if I could just clarify again you know there on all the plans that I have seen in the file there was only one street light that that's the I remember that too so that's street light a street light at the intersection really isn't what they're asking street so I have no issue I Okay so we're voting on no street light no street light no sidewalk sidewalk potentially subject to bpal approval and then yes okay board members questions on that as you just heard it question please M connect sidewalk and their Ed why not I mean it was part of the approval I would imagine discussion about it for the application um one thing that I would be bit concerned about and maybe think about is know fact the sidewalk goes past the church property and past the b i me last that it was part of the approval it doesn't sound like at least the residents that were going to be directly served by Sidewalk be to have ited about property talking uh it's only partly well it's it's located along the front edge of lot 2011 which is the church block and then it goes across the front of the attension base been church the church understand Church so therefore and so the whether it be maintenance of grass side or no side yeah I mean it's it's located along the but it doesn't really connect it doesn't connect to the church sidewalk it's kind of just no it it runs from basically the intersection of construed couch the inter intersection that'll go along this whole side the sidewalks coming out from a church don't go to they ch the way well I mean on you know there's there's a side on the plan lot how big is that on between the two drivers I don't know I mean it calls out for the island probably six I mean I do know you know when they were building the uh bisac that there were trees you in that area that were located you know where the was going to go I those trees are still there those might trees that copy of the plan you can just pass around just to what was to be approv plan now yeah but it's only a por but that we already have on file from the original application okay e e e there right e up e V on one we do want yeah want think each one of to break it there's four good I mean it's it's it's going to be one action ultimately the board um some may be approved some may not you can take them sequentially okay so how do we do that so what you say like we're voting on one motion regarding defense this way we know how we capture it okay and it memorializes the board action that way it's ultimately one action of the board it's a matter of whether or not you have the votes spr Mr chairman no I think part of the board deliberation should be the pleasure of the boards majority on any one of these and then there should be a single motion ultimately to vote with yes to this no to that yes to this no to that and then you see if that motion passes it fails but I think the board is a little uncertain now where each fellow member stands with certain things I think that's why the deliberation should be where are we on this could be the discussion I think the ultimate motion is a motion made by a single individual standed motion I make this motion for these conditions and then we see who follows in line if there's a v Council yes yeah maybe if I can just offer I know there's been some discussion in the meanwhile with respect to the sidewalk and I took the opportunity to look up so this appears to be a Municipal Road this is not a county road am I correct in that Dave um so many times Bergen County pay County Essex will enter into with the applicant an if when agreement so if the county I I handled the North Jersey Country C application they have like 1500 ft of Frontage with no sidewalk and it wasn't prudent for them to build a sidewalk at that time but we entered into an if when agreement that if the county or municipality has a street skate plan that then there would be a contribution from uh from the applicant at that time if there was a sidewalk program so I just offered that I'm not sure what the board was inclined to do but just offered that for consideration that I think then we may have to record the resolution because your client may not own this perpetuity yeah no it would run with the land another party wouldn't be bound by so if that were the pleasure of the board it would would come with condition that the resolution have to be recorded it would be more if I it would just it would be more efficient if the board were to decide on it definitively this evening one way or the other you know we're advocating for there not to be any sidewalks but I just offered that up as a consideration the other thing that has kind of brought this to a Forefront and it I guess every year fact that the project is essentially complete and the developer asks for release of bonds and and to wrap everything up and I don't know how we would be able to deal with that particular issue return bonds if there someing condition yeah usually when the county do there's no bond it's uh it's an no I know I I know you talk the county that me condition they have it's a little funky but it's a county only but Mr breeland's Point that's right there'd be a promise of performance perspectively and no guarantee Insight right and that's what prompted the application I think there was a reduction of the bond amount to a certain amount I'm not sure what the exact dollar amount is now for these remaining outstanding items and that would be the next step figuring out what the applicant has to do to close this out because the homes have have been there nearly five years at this point perhaps the CLE thing for the board to do would be to just consider a yes or a no yeah in discuss I wanted to offer it up as a potential your record [Music] um so as far as the sidewalks I think um a motion has to be know that should be installed just you know with um the point that you know granting relief you know I agree it could be a safety issue believe um Rel leave you of installing that um you know it does connect to the other adaa ramps up to present um I understand that is the church's sidewalk and should be the one maintaining it um as far as the Lal offense I think up to review um planting additional trees you work with the to where they fit or um and then the stre light um yes I say yes to that not to it be clear not to right um right that I think there's sufficient light on the houses in that Court additional light the owners property owners in that area before call for a second just to be clear the motion on the day is now is to approve the application in part as to the request to not install fencing and not install the lighting to approve it in part relative to the trees where the applicant is going to work with Mr breeland's office to install where possible and where they would Thrive that's going to be a post approval condition satisfaction item and not approving the applicant's request to obviate their requirement to install the sidewalk the pleasure of the motion is that the sidewalk should be installed for the reason state the so that's the motion that you have right now that can be seconded I will second that discuss on the board motion for that I see none from the police Vice chairwoman Bergen yes board member Wala yes board member patrino yes board member Garo yes member Gallow Yes chairo yesi Yes W yes thank you Mr chairman C mayor thanks you everyone happy he thank to thank you okay next on our agenda is applicant file number 204 202 24-13 the applicant Lis Clemens 65 New Street Nale New Jersey 0741 block 2204 lot 177 it's a proposed Second Story Edition on exed dwelling front yard setback pursuant to 20 I'm sorry 27022 27057 b and 27037 a parentheses 4 um we heard this at a prior meeting and the applicant is coming back to us sir but thank you thank you sir will see all right so hi hi good evening Mr chairman members of the board Mr tally one time um uh Gail price uh from The Firm of price me men and armeno 50 Ty Boulevard in woodliff Lake um I'm here um tonight on behalf of the continued application um I was not retained for the first go round I've been retained in the interim um on behalf of the contract purchasers although we naturally continued um the initial application I um provided new notice and um new publication that's been provided um to the board secretary and I believe everything was in order it is yeah thank you for sending it in we reviewed it and the is an order and we can proceed okay thanks Larry um so a couple of things it was my understanding that the board basically um said if you could go back and do some more homework on the application we would appreciate it and then come back and fill in the gaps as we've seen as we see it um so that's what I have worked on and hopefully we are able to check all the boxes um uh I have filed um revised architecturals I have filed um a sign sign and sealed copy of a topographical survey by um the rigs firm um the board asked for a survey with two foot Contours um and um it's actually one foot Contours um which is even better in in uh sections um and I believe you were looking at that um given a question uh as to what the uh slope may be on uh New Street so we'll be able to address that um you asked for uh retention of a professional planner and we've done that Mr clocker is here this evening um we have addressed lighting um for the um renovated home and that's reflected on a sheet of our architect's drawing um and have address uh revisions to the plan with regard to um our neighbor to the west on New Street um we've also made significant revisions to the home itself um and you'll hear from our architect um about that um the last thing I think um you asked for was the retention of the Lan use attorney and you got me so um I will um if you can um allow me to put my architect and um Miss Luciano on behalf of the um contract purchaser both on and U because I think that there'll be a need to have certain information and then I'm absolutely fine with opening both of them up to board questions and the public but I think it'll be more expeditious and flow better if if they both are able to testify and then you know after all that I'll put my professional Planner on um in terms of our burden of proof and I have a cold so I'm usually not this rasy your first two witnesses sworn in your AR is also qualified sworn in so you can proceed okay and I don't believe I we have any new reports from um on behalf of any of the um burrow reps okay okay great okay so um oh and just one one other thing um the application had been filed with regard to a C1 hardship um and when I got involved um it's it's really a C2 um variance case with the benefits outweighing the detriment with regards to bringing this home um into conformance with the neighborhood and um and making it um more of a aesthetically pleasing so we're going to be expanding that argument for you and for the neighborhood um so if I can go to our um architect um it was previously sworn I submitted plans um if you could and they're up on the easel to my right um is that correct okay just restate your full name and address for the record and your licensing is still um all good okay you um revised your plans uh to address some of the things that I just ran down since the last meeting okay and um you have six sheets in your um new set okay before you go into details can you just identify those sheets e mrra was just pointed out to us that when you reference your sheets reference the A200 a300 number because your sheet number in the bottom a few are dupes several of them stay sheet three sheet three consecutively just so for the record we know which one you were curring [Music] to for that's so for purposes of the record the reference to a dash the um 100.0 and carry that forward that's the correct rather than the sheet page number on the bottom okay okay and the original date was October 8th of of this year um and you have revised the plans um to address the modifications um with regard to the home correct okay so let's let's start with where we left off at the last hearing or where you left off at the last hearing and let's explain the steps that you took to address uh comments that we've heard not only from the board but some of the surrounding Property Owners as well [Music] 3 right brother and just it's not that you're not allowed to have Windows on the second floor of course you're allowed to have Windows but that removal of that window was done um with specific reference to a question that the neighbor on New Street had correct and the existing property is undersized is that correct un undersized for okay okay I continue with what um was done now 5 for so there there's nothing out of the ordinary um that's proposed in terms of lighting for the home this right and um if I could make a stipulation for the record um when we had the survey done um we had um location of trees over 6 Ines um located um and there are trees that go up to 36 in caliper on the site and um other than any required pruning we had them located um and we can stipulate that the proposed addition is not going to require the removal of those trees um and the survey as shown will um be the you know approved plan if the board um sees fit to grant us the approval yeah they are yes yeah that's why I wanted to make this ulation for the record so that that plan can be taken as a gospel with with regard to that um okay so the variance is really um uh we're talking about a couple of feet right e you colored you just colored that in pink for the record I but ahead reloc location and the H and the HV the HVAC um equipment was okay now I just wanted for a minute to talk with the board and the um public we reduced um the second floor from four bedrooms to three correct you said that earlier all right um without the three feet um tell me what happens with a bedroom what what size bedroom are we talking about about so it might but after 42 years of doing this I just want to demonstrate um if you don't mind that um and I'm holding up this you just say what it is for the record this is 36 in but this makes a bedroom 10 and so that so that's a reiz bedroom and we're down we've gone already down from four to three correct correct okay so um and you heard me indicate that um we filed the rigs um survey okay because I wasn't here at the last meeting um there was a a reference about a concern about the potential slope um Coming west to east on New Street um as to whether that was a significant um slope um so I'm going to show you the rig survey that was filed and I'm going to ask you for the record um to confirm whether I'm reading this correctly I see at the Western and of the property um at the right of way basically proed fashion and tell me what that well 77 that's um if we go in the setback area from new um it appears also to be the same 2712 and then at 22 so we have have a non-conforming lot um with non-conforming uh setback um and the new variance is um for the three-foot um area um we are fine with f and impervious okay I think that um that's what I have from um our architect on Direct I like to just Reserve in case I have any redirect okay of course okay and should I call Miss Luciana or a board questions you know we had a lot of questions from the public l I think you probably were informed maybe call recall your other witness and then maybe the public can that's fine it might be more efficient that way especially it's almost 9:30 yeah that's great okay we're going to have to pass this um exhibit we're going to have to pass the exhibit and let the public look at the exhibit as well yeah we're gonna to Mark if you want to identify this the record jail it's a photo Cent right 16 photos correct current photos taken by the applicant or rep of the applicant yeah I'll authenticate it um Susan you were um you testified at the last meeting in October correct and we have a a photo board on the easel did you personally take those photos and when did you take them okay um so you're fully familiar tonight to explain what's depicted on the exhibit correct okay I'm just going to take a minute um I don't believe at the last meeting we you went into this um what is your career so when you opine on the type of home that might be shown on um this exhibit board that's something that falls within your day-to-day um activities as a broker okay so um before you before you go through the pictures um tell me what with your sense of the neighborhood what were you um aiming to do by taking the pictures that's on the just Susan wait one second because we're you're pointing but we're also trying to record so when you say this is the subject property you have to say in the upper leftand corner across the top across the top or home and then down the first Clos on on and thenook so um putting um the subject property aside of the 16 photos um how many of the 16 are single story homes just one and that was your analysis of Dale and new okay and um you heard the testimony um by um our architect correct and was there anything that um the architect testified to or that I um said this evening that is incorrect or um that needs clarification or correction okay now now we can put um everyone up to questions before planning very good thank you um I know I see that you have you have reduced size of the of the house um and you know understanding the irregular shape of the of the or the regular position of the house in the property um at such an angle but on the second floor there still seems to be know a lot of the space with a little bit of massaging and that you may be able to get that corner that's non- compliant you know to to a compliant stepback or not compant but a signicant condition to that existing step back and not that um I mean there's walking depits are very large size um you know could basically kind of scissor the hallway so that you enter the master bedroom a little bit further and basically make that bedroom free um to move the bathroom into the master a little bit and then you have that job the back hopefully get toast theform step back um and I know that and that is also that elevation you know Street that's in your face when you come up that street um right now it's a very large you know you're adding that it's just add to that elevation the Second Story and it's big Bo that you're coming up to you cut off that on that elevation I mean I'm just saying that may not sound like a lot but it is like I'm saying I'm just saying there's a lot of space still on the second floor that I feel like could the non always I one of again um right I mean use that open low area as well I'm not really tight tighter that's what I'm saying which is very good SI kitchen you don't need to make just set it back wherever that needs to be I can say since I got involved we've looked at um a lot of different things because I didn't push I didn't put my finger on the button um until we had looked at everything um and just you know from the land use perspective um I think it's significant that we're only that one corner because as we go in a Southern Direction um everything dissipates and we're conforming as soon as we get away from that corner um which a lot of it has to do with the house the existing house being skewed because if it was parallel to the street on Dale then you'd really have a canyon um From perspective from the neighbor but the fact that it's skewed you don't don't have that um because you only have that at that point it's not it's not a full length of the house so we did look at what we could do but um if the home were taken down and a house was built you know parallel to the street I think it would you know and Emanuel you can answer this but we looked at it and I think um the neighboring property owner would have a much different visual um at that point i' the board understand that but we don't want to make a and you two variants we're trying to do is see if you could perhaps eliminate one simple go Ahad simple thing to eliminate I me um SI people that that is in um you know last in other words would we you know again I appreciate the fact you're coming here taking this the comment from the public and taking the comments from from the board but perhaps the board always we always we're always like what if what could be changed Etc what if you don't get do the three that's really I think where this is coming to now well I'm concerned about it if if you just took that little bit of three feet off you know what itar it's designed nicely um again I feel like it could help alleviate the big you know that's the other condition is that reduce theil on other side which you know away from right and it's not right in your face that corner you know I almost wish wish the Gage right it was flipped because you wouldn't notice the delation is other but um just by cutting off you know a little bit on the on this elevation and just you know once it's a flat just bunch of Windows know getting some to set back something that add a little character to the design and and add situ I mean and then that's Corner that's again this corner is a double know yeah e I just have a of course Happ that how all right shut all right we shut down okay yeah Linda going to shut five shut down five okay please thank you there e yeah as a record I remember is going to make you e e yeah so tring 74 e here okay e e I right e perm e for let's bring it back last be a to hear that loud very care all right Council we're gonna we'll bring it back thank you thank you okay thank you coming back thank you and recognizing me forck moment Linda we're good yes thank you thank you okay recognizing that we just did this in pink hot pink um marker um and that we need a final plan um I this is we can cut out that bottom bottom and on the top for a dimension of 15 uh Feet 2 by 3 feet which gets us totally conforming bottom and top um and we'll redo which we just were trying to do the layout of the upstairs um to make it work but we get rid of that um three foot concern on the bottom and the top so we're basically taking 15 feet 2 in by the 3 feet off the bottom and the top so it will have that jut it'll jut to give that aesthetic um difference rather than than a flat wall so it's um 90.5 Square fet um coming off and but that's going to require new plans well we'll um I can I can stipulate um that we'll do that um and then one of the conditions in uh one of the review letters was that we would need a soil permit um anyway so um if the board approves us after you hear from the public and everything submission of revised plans to be confirmed that they're accurate is not a problem and if they're not accurate it's on me um board members I I I personally would like to see new plans not only for our benefit but for the Public's benefit especially Council because how many people and the comments that were made the last meeting maybe we could hear from the public um Mr chair and see if there's anything that's still open um I I could I could yes that I will that I will agree to because if there's other changes that other me that members of the public or members of the board here like to raise because I don't want you to go back another okay all right but I think that we would need to see I yeah I I just don't know um and I didn't talk about this I don't know where we stand um with the whole deal that's why we were trying to get this done tonight okay so um that's okay that's what I want to do so so board members questions where we are please question on the um the roof angles in the elevation um so on the North elevation it looks like I'm just comparing it to the east it looks like it's cut off on the end so are you supposing cutting off the roof and so there would be a vertical plane of shingles coming down or is that North elevation drawn incorrectly so it should be more Peak there and and then theing that same thing goes for the there so why isn't it shown like that or the North and the South they just don't you know you're sh it like Garage in the elevation you know show it e like it's a lot of shingles and I'm just confused how it's being structed then you're showing like have a vertical section of Shing on the okay I I think that will help the elevation a little break it out the itself share with me like how much of the old house you're keeping versus how much you're R the whole thing 20% 70 in terms of the old house how much of it are you keep Foundation the 2x4 so you're going to change into 2x6 for the energy C efficienc two then second floor will be 2 by six how they proposed if you're going to spray on the outside put dim on the you're you're keep exterior walls I'm just trying to figure out I'm trying to wrap my head around how far are you going to go until you basically are left with the foundation and which point you start from stretch and you have no VAR like you're building a house are you leaving the first floor are you going to use the 2x4s and then insulate the exterior which is going to be apprach on those set back little more I'm just trying to understand because again you have to from you guys testified this being built as a fli right so the C2 criteria if I'm not mistaken you're supposed to have communal benefit I don't see the communal benit supposed to a c so I'm just trying to understand where the hardships are you know and how I can vote on this based on the fact that it's more so of a passion project that as was testify and so I'm asking the questions because I want to know how much of the house are you keeping and at which point are we trying to bend the rules so that you could build something that will sell the maximum value which we frankly don't care about care about the community so trying to understand all this because I'm glad you guys came back with a different plan trying to understand how much of the old house are you keeping and at which point does it make sense for us to look at something where now you may not be able to keep orange wall just I'm trying to get my hands so that I could all the first four worlds and just on the um the one comment on the proofs um it's not a mix of the language between the hardship and the C2 um the C1 hardship has to relate to the property and the constraints that might be on the property the C2 is positive criteria of the municipal luse law all of the listings and then the negative component of that is that there won't be any negative impact on the surrounding properties which is where the testimony goes that this is only one of two um ranches out of 16 homes and the upgrade to the neighborhood is a factor um that the application is presenting in terms of not making money but upgrading the the property it is a flip it was testified to it being a a family that's living here who was testified with that so I look up the code and it says that a C2 variance focuses on the benefit of the proposed deviation in relationship to the community and the goals of the mlu ACT it's important to note that no personal hardship is not basically part of this variance it emphasizes that it's for communal benefit and improving the zoning and planning outcome right so when I look at this and then I go back this I did do a little research says when considering the variant it's essential to evaluate the facts right your client basically we're approving a variant because the app the we're looking at it because it's being more primarily driven based on profitability and investment that's what it's driven on there's no other hardship there's no there's no family here that's moving in and they have three kids and adult you know and possibly app parent that they're taking care of there is no hardship so what is the hardship I'm going to say it a third time hardship is not what this case is about and again you're mixing and we'll make it very clear what the law is and I'm sure Mr Cali will also make it very clear hardship is not um C2 um you started the conversation by saying it's a C1 but it's really a C2 I didn't say that I said the first hearing without legal counsel said it was um a C1 and I very quickly corrected that we wanted to us to look at it as a C2 and I said that's how the case was being put in are we looking with Council okay what are we looking at it a C1 or C2 I don't think that we're bound to say that at this point in the um application no and ultimately Mr cler is going to testify he's going to put the planning proofs on the record he's going to argue whether you're going see1 alternative or one or the other and then at that point he will be subject to cross examination um you know M price while well an expert in L use is profing this she's not testifying as an expert witness right now in planning I understand your points you're making Gale correct I think that we have to keep this can down the road for the planning testimony but you heard the members concerns so we know you're coming back and sure you'll take consideration I heard it you know and to further that the fact that it is a flip I think that's why the design is the design it is just quite square and quite boxy and then the side elevation which is really kind of like a you know people will see that from the street it's it's just not aesthetically pleasing it just look the planes just look very flat just doesn't look like a lot of Dimensions I know um I just notic one other thing on the front um elevation to the 20.6 foot step back in garage corner in the proposed plan you're not the um front porch Builder we're looking at um because when we compare it to when we compare it to the rig Flor those numbers are the same I I think that's pretty simple as again similar to the back that could help them e e e yeah I think we're coming back anyway this point you heard the board would like to see the drawings the architect ofair provision um I don't know if you have anything further T night of your Witnesses but if not we might have yeah yeah that's fine first first counil if I could I open to the public any other okay we have we have a we have a Bo member question contract yes she can come up she question for you um in the very beginning you said you weren't going to be doing any tree work there or removing any trees last week what was the tree company there doing did that so then what is on here is post or pre that's without without okay okay all right any other the board member okay I am now opening up to the public questions of these Witnesses on the testimony that you heard tonight please come up state your name and address good evening John cromy 169 Dale Avenue uh I'm also a uh partner with Connell Foley Law Firm at rosand I appreciate the board's uh time especially during the holiday season here and the applicant's uh efforts to uh hear what the board and what the public uh the neighbors had to say about the application just want to offer a couple of observations and comments um bro me I I think this is limited to questions of the witnesses from this evening you'll have an opportunity for comments at the conclusion of the case but I think given the hour of the night well I'm gonna be brief Council I understand then we have to swear you in and then we're subject to comments from everybody else in the public so it's a pleasure of the chair uh and the members of the board but I I my understanding was that this is going to be questions only based upon a testimony this evening with the representation of the applicant they will be returning with potentially a plan revision and that would be high time for anybody to offer their comments has that been committed to because I didn't hear that I heard you say that I didn't hear the applicants say the applicants I don't think forcing a vote this evening of the board and the board's not prepared listen I'm happy to come back I'm happy to come back I'm happy to your pleasure if you're not going to hear that then I don't need to stay because I don't have a lot of comments uh for say on the application or these Witnesses yeah we're protocol this is not unique to tonight this is okay I respectfully Mr C you said they're coming back I haven't heard the applicants saying they're coming back so I just tell me is your intent to return or conclude this evening and ask the board to deliberate and vote um I don't know what we're going to do um I'm not not asking the board to vote tonight but I don't know if we're returning um can't pay that so um I understand you have a meeting next Wednesday but it's po um I don't know if you would entertain getting Wednesday this week it's also Christmas meeting next week weting two days yeah not next week what am I thinking about um oh two days from now yeah and your agenda let me let me rephrase it right maybe you misund understood yes I'm gonna ask questions but I am GNA offer a couple comments relative to the questions you want to swear them in I'll be sworn in I mean I we're we're gonna have to them Mr bromy it it runs together I'm going to be very brief okay very good would you please raise happy toir the testimony about the provide us the truth the whole truth nothing truth okay please proceed sir okay again thank you for the opportunity to talk to you thank you for what the applicant has done appreciate that a lot of time and efforts got into this the feedback this evening has been helpful as well just offer a couple of comments there was a the the applicant had offered pictures of the surrounding neighborhood and while many of the homes that are depicted there are the immediate uh neighbors to the to the house in question some of them are further up on right some of them also that are not shown go down New Street are single family homes right it's a mixed neighborhood the other thing I'm sure the board is very much aware of this the intersection of Dale and new new street is I think either a single a or doublea Zone and it it trips over the Lots on Dale the lower part of Dale and cely are in a in a higher uh Zone I I forget what it is whether it's double or triple A but the lots are big so at 169 my Lots point almost three4 over three4 of an acre right the ban Woods is across the street same thing so she's quite correct that there are uh twostory homes in the neighborhood and what's been proposed here and revised is generally consistent in my opinion with um the overall neighborhood but again I think the concerns you've expressed about the massing you know again and the opportunity to look at that further would be appreciated especially what's been depicted here terms of the the sketches so go offer that from my perspective as at 169 Dale Avenue if the applicant could take into account that I'll be staring at those air conditioning units which are on the corner I appreciate that they where they are where they are but from my front door I will be staring at it just like I stare at the outside storage that's been sitting there for years okay so if we could take a look at doing something screen that that would be appreciated if we could also do something to to put some more screening along the property line between the benites and the property owner that be would be appreciated as well maybe less so of the Ben but again for for my benefit looking at at the property because of the way that house is is angled it's not Square so I kind of look back into the patio area into the backyard into the stuff that's been sitting there so which is another common re question I'm assuming that once this goes through that outside storage is going away cuz it's been sitting there a long time so I would appreciate that if we could we could address that um appreciate that um as far as the trees go appreciate the efforts to take down the dead trees of the trees that need to be removed there is an ash tree that is growing up out of the walkway there that sheds heavy limbs every time the wind blows every time I pick up debris in that street on a we basis so I don't want to lose any more trees but I think that ash tree needs to be looked at from a structural standpoint the walkway is tripping Hazard and my own personal opinion on no arborus that thing needs help it's probably coming down so again the from from not only selfishly whole the whole walkways heed from the tree um there's been a lot of trees taken down again so don't want to be selfish and said please put up additional screening but there's been a significant erosion of the of Landscaping on the property as the property has continued to kind of decline U if you think back uh chairman when you were in the neighborhood the house was impeccable um one thing has not been touched on tonight and I think Bear's looking at and I think Mr Brooke may look at it there's been no no discussion of drainage right in terms of whether you're going to do any sort of storm water retention like underground pulling all the gutters and leaders into you know an underground retention are you going to just you know put it out into the into the yard have you thought about what you're going to do there well I don't to be a wise guy good luck because there's there's there's there is none now and the gutters are clogged and there's there's in the summer there's weeds a size two feet high growing out of the gutters so nothing's working I understand but you said you're going to connect to what's there there's nothing there so I think I think part of the followup again not trying to be difficult would be especially in the back it's pretty flat there uh and with with the disruption just want to make sure that the drainage works and you can pull it into a storm water retention on site I don't know what what that would would do that would be probably helpful help especially with flat as it is yeah I mean that's one of the reasons we took a look atour already um appreciate be brief this is last comment and and um I don't mean to overstep here I don't mean to interject into the legal we got a lot of very good lawyers here um I have a perspective on the C2 which I'll offer Mr C with your permission I was fortunate enough after getting out of law school in 1987 88 the clerk for justice o' Hearn the New Jersey Supreme Court who wrote The Kaufman case which is the leading case on the C2 baring I worked on so again without weighing in here giving another legal opinion Council can can uh is very learned in this area C2 is designed was designed in my humble opinion for situations like this right it was called when it was first passed the flexible C2 so you wouldn't have to prove a hardship so again don't mean to to to overstep away and part me no um so I think I think if you can get to the right place and we appreciate on behalf of the the myself my neighbors the board looking out for the public here in the neighborhood and the community and you're quite right that that's the you know what needs to be done here weighing things but I think for those of you who maybe haven't seen the Decay the deterioration of that house that's a factor that has to be taken into account something needs to be done so finding the right balance and again I appreciate you're looking out for the neighborhood and we certainly uh appreciative of of the collective efforts but I would I would continue to ask that we work collaboratively to trying to find the right balance because the status quo is not acceptable just it's just something has to be done okay so I appreciate that lastly in terms of go forward if this is approved burough engineer has jurisdiction over this terms of managing and overseeing this construction project well it would be be the constru constru code the construction official we would be involved if there was they met the warrant I'm I'm hopeful that if it get approved there's it goes through smoothly there's no issues but if there's any issues I just want to know where we're supposed to go okay appreciate it thank you thanks for your time happy holid thank you other members of the public please my name is Richard Brooke and I live at 17 New Street I am the mediate neighbor and um it's my understanding here I'm a little bit lost um and when I understand new plans are going to be drawn we're going to take a look at those um and I'm here now to ask a question which was already touched upon and that was you know I I appreciate the revisions in in the pl I appreciate the windows and and and and the effort made to listen to um comments from the public and and from the board um but in regards to the three-foot setback my primary concern is water and Mr cromy touched upon that with the storm drainage uh my house has a some pump it already gets water when it rains very hard and when we move um that Foundation closer to my property line I'm concerned uh that will affect my uh water in my B so i' to just bring that up for consideration um and you know other than that I'm assuming we're going to be back here with Reis plans and we're going to look at that and am I correct in in that assumption you're correct in the sense that the applicant is not concluding their case this evening yeah I think Miss price alluded to the fact that they may or may not return that might be a part of their deal which we're not privy to but if you do see these folks back here they are likely to return with modifi plans okay okay all right well then my question was to consider water water runoffs that kind of thing um especially if that threefoot setback is that what's in the current plant right now I know you guys did a lot of stuff yeah yeah no I understand I I kind of understand I saw you guys working on it when it gets finalized we'll look at it and um just water in general um because my seller is to begin with other than that I would just like to thank everybody's time here I know it's late and I really appreciate um the effort that you all put into this project thank you sir thank you thank you further members of the public wish to comment questions okay seeing that I bring it back to the board comments on anything that we just heard okay um counc if I may I personally I would like to see consider yes ofation I used to live on the street so I know this property okay so and I know water situation um I want to see I want to all the considerations that would be here including quar run off quar P um that would have the opportunity to look at for c for any common they have okay that's my opinion yes I actually had WR there were two things that that probably down I touched on that I had that I was going to bring up towards the end whatever the Airing yeah we talked about that and some different planting there for screen okay so thank you thank you sir okay that's my opinion board members I in agreement I mean I I appreciate the changes that you have made I think just a little bit more and you'll get there um but um I would like to think we're coming I mean if we come back we're coming back anyway because I you know we have consideration with my planner and the hour of the night I'm not going to put him on without having a case fully put on anyway that would be um not the proper way to exercise land use um a light-hearted moment is the last neighbor whose name is Richard Brooke and my husband is Richard Brooks so that was the like lightest thing of the whole evening um um but um if we could get uh notice Carri to your next meeting so I don't have to Ren notice that would be um very helpful and um I also wanted Flip or no flip um my client advised me that the inside of this house has already been gutted so um I don't think it's relevant whether there's a family or a flip so I just wanted the board to understand that um in terms of where we are with the existing structure and what needs to happen to it so um if we could just get it carried for now Lind how are we looking not too good um Wednesday we have a large application this Wednesday January 15th is our reor we have two residential applications on for that night and possibly it's night this again I'm not sure about that so there's a little room there not a lot um February we have one resident we're not we're definitely not going to make it till February um in terms of where we are so if we could get it carried to January if it doesn't work out I understand um but at least if I get the notice carried um um it survive another day yes maybe be back at the bo what the understanding you might not you reached sounds like on 15th of January or you know depending on where everything stands um you know might be a New Year good 115 for now so for the benefit of the public you will not receive another notice in the mail the application is being carried this evening to that date certain it's January 15 of 2025 same time same place that's when the applicant will continue to prosecute the case or at least that's when they intend to continue to prosecute I have further up on that date whether or not they withdraw they don't get reached something like that but there will be no further notices sent down okay any chance you start at seven the I would think by that point application pretty tight and the boards and I don't want board members we chose to start early for this one time the remember we have to go through reor the appointment etc etc that's usually the first thing we have to say I can I can I personally can do it ear board members okay so Bo's G have notice first starting at 7M yeah yeah we will we will make every effort sir to make it work I agree with you yeah right we're we're we're going to aim for S o'clock store okay all right Council we'll in for a seven o'clock story of January again we have our reord work to do we'll try and go through that quickly and then we have other applications all right thank okay right so okay all right Council we'll we'll wait here all right thank you thank you all right thank you all right hour is late but we do have one more on our agenda and it's a conceptual hearing um file number 2024 20 Caesar Baldi 10 East Avenue 10 I'm sorry 10 East Allandale Avenue in Allandale block 702 lock 10 and this is purely a conceptual hearing only okay thank you you too thank you good evening Mr chairman members of the board my name is Jeff traes Weiss Tom trapanese Wayne New Jersey appearing on behalf of Caesar baly who is seated behind me uh we have uh Tor lanic here as well as our engineer as you indicated this is a conceptual hearing concerning block 702 Lot 10 which is otherwise known as t 10 East Allendale Avenue which is a existing lot of approximately 52,000 unimproved square feet it's a Wetlands impacted property uh my client has owned it since 1967 or for approximately 57 years which predates the wetlands enactment of the wetlands act uh I think his taxes are currently about $8,000 a year so over the term of his ownership he's probably paid a quarter of a million dollars in taxes uh this dates back quite a while uh to 2019 uh there was zoning approval issued there was a plot plan review memo there was Soil Conservation waiver and the DP Wetlands Loi was issued and I understand there's an application pending for the renewal um the DP is sort of pushed back because our application does not require variants or any subdivisions but the DP has pushed back and wants uh the building envelope and the structure moved closer to uh East allenvale Avenue which um we don't necessarily agree with that will invoke the necessity for a variance application we believe that will have negative impacts uh on the neighborhood with the existing neighboring properties we also believe there will be safety impacts which uh tore is here to address in more detail uh really the purpose of the conceptual hearing is uh really to determine the board's position on that uh proposal from the DP and the variance application as well as determine the board's receptiveness to um dedicating the rear portion of the property uh either as a direct dedication to the town or a con conservation easement so with that being said as the introduction for our application understanding it's a late hour um I'd like to turn it over to uh our expert to give more details on the outline I've just provided to you certainly I believe Mr lantic is known to the members of the board but if you'd like me to quader him I'd be happy to do so as they well that's that's fine regular shap plan so Happ DEC Drive fly no one never seen appc not and right location light still you see the two neighbors no Drive property but proposes driveway out good however our dialog there's no want I point out that should have theprint of at home of Home performing home is actually a very nice trans from first over home a good PR El auta properties buy or writing a check in number this property this property one one be offer there resp Rao Che fore We Believe plan the land I know the land it's a landlock p if you no no no no no no no if you were to sub it it's just just becomes Bas with that exception with that excep direct yes Direct follow heers print conance point turn this is probably one of the first times I've had someone come in and ask yeah yeah I'm kind of having a hard time trying this way this is why we're here where did we start we're here for a bar that we don't want we it really dope you know but they have their their rules and we don't fit rules and are they gonna be satisfied with we floated this by the board on a con I mean because who had DP is reviewing this okay twoes back they're in the Box yeah yeah yeah because I'm not sure what value you get out of saying concept didn't go great they they might say prosecute something I don't know they would they would look for something right just said so well which the board really can't provide something writing that doesn't actually conclude with a disposition of board know the only writing we we can't give an opinion letter we can't give a straw vote and writing the only written document produce is a resolution how much land W land you know it in an acres in over yes that does not want to make not issueing that hammer removed and no way to got years property a lot of people realize separate build a just wood that go those other properties but it exists what I realiz I think it's the governing body that's really got a chime in on that problem and is it because the turnaround is paid area or there what if the Al it it would benefit you if it was an inferious got and then again by coming by having to make coming forward way no that takes into the Charing radi left and right there's white land on both left and right there uh no no it's really this low area draining down into that lower they got bu upate where it was and it's just trees are in swamp you're able to um have your I mean I know it's conceptual but you're able to drain the daylight into that yes area yes we have that's an overflow show backyard right getting started that I'm just thinking about the soil you guys haven't done any soil sample so is a soil going to bear like you know what loading are you gonna put if you put a basement in right like all the other properties all the guys are their neighbors are pitching water down you elevate pitch it back towards the Wetland so dialog so yeah count if you came to us with a plan and said here listen make to make this work I've got to pull the house forward I've got to pull the house forward and I can't have a turn around no way my opinion my opinion and knowing having done this for some time on here you know safety is utmost as well as other things you've heard tonight you sat here for three hours you heard some of the way the board thinks okay um yeah I I board members please okay I I'm speaking for for me okay but I think hav't worked with all you guys and ladies I think that's where we would all end up with this thing I just I I think it was important made we need to come here this and say we made an effort brought it up a strong variance under application under any he can't produce anything on behalf of the board saying that to you kind a concept um it is possible that a municipal official consulted an engineer could say I reviewed the concept and if he believes it could say I would have an issue with X Y and Z x y and z my be well be with the chairman expressed his concern as being I don't know you would have to ask Mr Breeland that I can tell you that from this side of the day really nothing can be produced to help your cause before D because what you fled out here now is a concept application and the board has preemptively told you they would vote no on it exposes the board properly I understand the quandre IR I get it um but think the best you can hope for might be a consultant review saying that turnaround needs to be there because in the proximity to that roadway system and the DP can infer from that if it's brought closer you can't design it that way and you're out of luck at that point with a safety issue I think that might be the best you could get but I'm not going to offer something up on beh of somebody else I heard Mr breand I'm just trying to think of you know potential Avenues and mechanisms I mean this may be something that we bring up plan subcommittee Mee have discussion we often have discussions regarding issues topics and property and maybe based on direction of the subcommittee could be conion authorization to express that conclusion I mean you got to have a turn around there I personally J through there into cars you know almost real Vis the and where they're fighting for each other and you got somebody trying to pull out there and there's no curve that's right yep plus you may or may not know there's almost potentially 400 units going in right on the other side of our Line Road what about producing a portion of the transcript of this record which you could easily Supply yeah we presented it thoroughly for you know half an hour call it you showed us plans um and you heard board members say I think it' be a problem maybe that helps you maybe it does and I appreciate the time and thought I realize it's on our dos but it's position we've been kind of fored each time this forward one way or another it's been five years stuff that has to happen so we're trying to find the best path and and and we appreciate you coming before the board the board does efforts to accommodate types of concept reviews to help out things they for we did it heard one tonight we did it for uh couch court or parts there was a concept review there and we provided input just like we're doing here so we pride ourselves i' do it that council's point we can okay and again I think that land we can bring it up there's some things that are going of go in my head but I'm not sure there's there's you know five different committees Public Works safety one of name that would yeah trying to get one this week but I'm not sure done so so Council perhaps I guess the best thing that we could do is provide you a transcript of them okay these um meetings are posted on the B website so you know a video and a recording every for our website it should be up within 48 hours thank you apolog we took you so late okay okay for the thank you thank you all right it's late um anybody in the public any comments being done bringing it back motion to end the meeting do I have a second yes sir thank you all right and we will see most of you on Wednesday night again s w everybody