##VIDEO ID:nAuV098HJgM## okay good all right good evening everybody this is the regular meeting of the Allendale land use port at which formal action will be taken on the items listed on the agenda and upon any other matters which may properly come before the land use board the requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied through posting on the public bulletin board in the municipal building and on the borrow website and by publication in the record on December 29th 2023 with copies being sent to the Ridgewood news certain agenda items will be open to the public for comment Andor testimony the board will advise the public when such matters are open for their comment and or testimony uh please before we get started if everybody join me in saluting the flag flag stes America the stands naice thank you I okay Lyndon please may I have a roll call Vice chairwoman Bergen here board member warzala is absent and board member patrino is absent board member golio pres councilman deloo here board member Dow here chairman Shero here mayor wasinski here boner Butler here boner Cony here thank you okay and I just would like to uh to point out that we have Mr Steve sesi here sitting in for Mr C thank you sir appreciate it good to be here again thank you again again okay um next on our agenda approval of minutes for the October 23rd 2024 land use board meeting um I review them give some feedback to Linda uh any other comments questions on the minutes from the October 20 3rd 2024 meeting okay seeing none please can we have I'm sorry can I have a motion to accept the me the minutes I'll make the motion to accept thank you sir second second you board member Garo yes councilman delso yes chairman suro yes mayor wasinski yes alterate yes okay thank you all right before we uh get into the public parts of the meeting we have a couple things we need to clear up from last from last meeting the first one are two resolutions uh we do okay sir uh the first one is applicant file number 202 24-11 resolution number 24-18 the application is Antonio ino in bimbo sorry one East elb Drive Allendale 07401 block 103 GL 7 the application was for a second floor and a gr gri Edition pursuing 27064 B for 62 and 2704 is that all right not a problem thank you thank you Mr chairman um by way of a quick synopsis because we've got an extensive agenda this evening the uh this particular resolution involves U requests for uh front side yard setbacks on two uh discret sides the property involved 1.09 acres and the property was located within the Burrow's uh daa residential zoning District uh following the applicant's uh testimony uh the board determined in some re form that the applicant had demonstrated the uh appropriate hardship which is a standard that an applicant seeking uh variance relief in this particular case from bulk requirements of the zoning District must obtain and the board was satisfied that based upon the proofs that the property owner offered that hardship was demonstrated and uh voted by Voice vote at that meeting to approve the application sir okay is there any questions comments on this resolution okay seeing none uh may have an a motion to approve please so moved sirk you board member Garo yes councilman delso yes chairman Sero yes mayor wasinski yes Bon and Butler yes good thank you all right Council second one please second one yes would be uh Michael and Melissa dtoa Block 2008 lot 9.09 also known as 130 Elmwood Avenue uh and if we sound like it's similar to the first it is in some respects again once again the applicant was seeking uh relief from this board uh for side yard setbacks and a minimum rear yard setback as as established by the zoning Code E the property is 27 five acres located in the Burrow's a residential Zone the applicant was sworn provided testimony as did his app uh his um architect and based upon the proof that they presented uh the board concluded that they had demonstrated uh a sufficient hardship to entitle the applicant to the relief they were seeking uh they approved the application with the conditions which were set forth that included that all fees and assessments required by ordinances uh be uh be paid in full and that the drawings can form and be consistent with the approval okay you board members any comments questions on okay seeing none I have a motion or I'm sorry can I have a motion pleas for acceptance of this resolution than sir thank you board member goly Arrow yes chairman Sho yes but yes you have then you have oh on this one there nobody there's nobody else can vote on this um I had two people that were out forther and two people that were recus you could I no I wouldn't do that do there is a body of law that does suggest that recusals um might in appropriate cases now that would be an exension never mind I take that back uh you do have a quorum uh you have a majority of your Quorum voting for it but if you want to be ultimately uh safe can call somebody would he come down can we can we do it by phone I don't know where he is yeah I don't know where he is why don't we carry the vote till a little later in the meeting and then we can decide okay okay all right hold the vote until you can find if Frank is available okay thank you M for doing that okay those are the two um we have another we have another agenda item which is voting on the L board meeting uh dates for next month but before we do this In fairness to those members in the audience who are here to listen to the application um for for uh Brett and Sandy benowitz which apies here which is on 43 Colonial Drive uh in course that particular application has been requested by uh by the applicant to be carried to the January 15 2025 meeting so if you're here for that application we will not be hearing that tonight okay so um Linda is that we that doesn't have they ask for Paris does have to be Reed no it would not have to be Ren noticed as long as you announce when it's being two number one and uh I'll ask the secretary are we close to uh that period of time where we would insist on a extension of time from the applicant um everything is fine with them they requested it okay that's the date they requested and it's and they've agreed to carry it then then you're fine oh okay I didn't see this okay actually that was purple that is corre I put it on on the record on correspondence dated November 5th 2024 uh the applicants architect represented that uh uh the applicant would not have to Ren notice and that they would be advised at the next meeting date uh when the matter would be placed on the agenda and carried to and we spoke and agreed on January 15th there you go so on the record it's sir and ma'am January 15 all right okay we app right so was just a second was just a second yes so we already had voted we already voted okay then you're done so then we're done okay cares okay thank you all right we're done the resolutions are done right okay thank you okay bringing it back now to our next agenda item which is voting on The 2025 calendar of landu board g board members I believe you were all provided with the dates here um I'm going to point out that there updates that seem a little bit odd uh we normally meet on the third Wednesday of every month with a potential L uh work session on the Monday night before that um Linda and I spoke about these uh while this was being put together and Linda I'm just going to ask you to comment I know that there's a couple dates that seemed a little earlier in the calendar and I know you have notes as to why we went that way um the April dates were um should have been the 14th and the 16th but we changed it because there's spring resets for the schools and also to get us far away from the holidays in December we moved it up a little bit so that we're not so close to the holidays so we're on the 8th and the 10th as opposed to the 15th and the 17 that's it board members any comments questions relative to the dates that we're going to put forth okay so can I please have a motion to accept the dates as written provided to all for our meeting for our meeting dates for the year calendar year 2025 I'll make the motion than you second all right board member Bergen yes board member buaro yes councilman deliso yes board member D yes chairman Sero yes mayor wasinski yes wter Butler yes wter Cony yes thank you okay next on our agenda um is a review of the Amendments of the land use plan and the hbas study uh it's a continuing presentation by our our planner um um Ed snik so Ed I'm just going to turn the floor over to you thank you Mr chairman sir uh good evening everyone uh Ed snikes from Burgess Associates um I distributed to the board a memorandum dated November 7th 2024 this this document is to address some of the ongoing discussions that the board's had with regard to the land use plan and the master plan we're currently looking to amend that document bring it up to date and adjust some of the contents within that document in addition to that we're also simultaneously doing the hazard vulnerability assessment study uh which is something that we'll be taking up at the next meeting um but yet for tonight I just wanted to quickly discuss discuss with the board some of the changes that we've added to the actual land use plan draft document and the reason why we're discussing this is that this forms the basis for your overall zoning locations so we wanted to reflect the existing Zone Plan Plus at the same time reflect some of the developed condition uh within the community and so what we've done is there's three separate areas that I identified in this memorandum uh the first is at uh block 1102 lot 14 and block 1604 lot 15 which is uh two Parcels that I show on a diagram below this location that shows the existing 2005 Land Use plan and then the proposed 2024 land use plan and what you'll see is that we've designated the two areas now within the corresponding public and uh religious use activities for those lots and the reason for that is the ml3 zone for those two parcels was back in 2013 amended so that it did not include those two Parcels due to an adjustment we made in the housing plan at the time so therefore we wanted to reflect that in the land use plan that that has been changed and I provide an aerial photograph on the back side of that page so you can see where that is in case there's any questions it was really capturing the open space of the the school property and then also the religious institution that's adjacent to it the second one is block 1806 light lot 9.02 uh this is another location that was in the ml4 zone it's actually still within the ml4 Zone but it was developed as a park in the overall uh process of the development of Crescent comets that was developed in that area so this area was designated as a park developed as a park and so I wanted to identify it within that land use category and you can see the before and after on this page as well as the aerial photograph to see what that difference is the third item is on the last page it's block 910 Lots 2.01 excuse me 2.02 2.03 2.04 and 12 it's in the a residence Zone it's developed condition right now is single family if you recall there was a uh a subdivision that enacted the and changed the location and configuration of the Lots in that area that were adjacent to the religious institution that's on um ceson Avenue and that the uh subdivision added a culdesac and a new storm water basin as shown on the AA photograph with three lots so we've now revised that land use designation in that area so I wanted to bring those to your attention and that's what's on the draft map that we also distributed to the board which is this document here that I have 11 by 17 of and in addition to that in discussions uh in our office also discussions with the board engineer I wanted to point out two other three other things that we'd like to change in the land use planning the first is in the Northerly or top of this page which is the former Farm property that was previously developed we had reflected the ml believe it's ml3 zoning that's for that area which is true it's still in the ml3 zone but if you recall how that was developed it was developed with all single family homes and that instead of a multif family development at that location so in order to be more accurate to the land use we were going to identify within the single family developed condition but that put an overlay uh depiction on there not a Zone but a depiction to identify that that is also consistent with the ml3 zone so that therefore it's it's reflecting the developed condition and it's more accurate um isn't that where our veterans homes are yes there is the Veterans homes are there as well that and that that as I'm looking at the map here I was going to ask the same question brought it out to cresc correct okay so in addition to the houses that to that call you have that development foreground exactly um the next item is the uh Park and Ivy application if you recall that application that was approved on Park Avenue um the court approved that development for multif family it's currently listed in the commercial business Zone because that's what the zoning is for that area but it's going to be developed for multifam so that is something I'd like to the change on that location that was brought to my attention by the engineer in addition to that um the Celler form we had located in the public land use but looking back at the prior land use plan is actually in the Parks Recreation open space appropriately so we're going to move it back into that designation so I wanted to describe that to the board so when you see the next draft of this document you'll see those changes um and then in addition to that one last thing would be I know where discussing the uh assisted living facility uh the end of Haron Road in the near future but yet that's been in the developed condition way back even before 2005's land use per so one thing I'd like to do is to identify that in the Assisted Living category uh of the of the land use plant because likely that developed condition is going to exist and continue to exist so why not reflect the right category for that location and so Mr chairman that's what I had for the board U unless there's any questions might might I ask um what we're doing where the um where the drivethru used to be on Elm on Elm okay I don't know if you want to comment right building for apartment I just want to make sure it's designated properly doesn't need to be I see what you're saying the driveth through bank it the drive bank right multi family that's actually in the commercial category yeah we could identify that in the multif family category too so that would be the last item it's a good idea so is that is that forgive me decision wise is that that helps take care of that yes I'll take care of that you'll see that in the next draft the purpose for this discussion is to make sure you're seeing the changes that I'm making on the map and also give me input of other things I may have overlooked so that's something that I'll add to this map so that when come back to you and what I have right now of the land use plan just for an update as far as where we are with that document we finished the land use designation descriptions in a draft form I'll be sending that out to the board for your review and we can schedule a future meeting to discuss that and why why that's important it talks about the relative densities and or land use characteristics for those areas in a descript form and that helps to really solidify the specific designation for that zoning for that area area so that uh description will be taking some of the description from the prior 2005 but embellishing on that and making any changes and or additions such as the Assisted Living uh location that we just talked about which wasn't captured at all in the prior land use plan so that's what will be provided in addition to that we're also doing a background data update uh which has to do with the demographics of the community that's also going to be part of the land use plan and then any changes to uh or external uh development uh items that we may want to identify and I've I've identified a few of them including I think we had a conversation previously about um uh Last Mile Warehouse or distribution facilities and saying that that's really probably not appropriate for anywhere within our borders uh our light industrial zone or our business zones so that would be another thing that would be you'll see in the the next draft the land use plan but I expect to have that draft probably in the next two weeks and I'll distribute that to the board digitally but then we can also schedule a future meeting to go over that that's a question um for 2 well 210 actually 210 220 so the veil it it looks like you have it as an overlay Zone that's correct because that's what it was it's actually existing as an overl it was because I we we um the MF seed it as a Redevelopment Zone and then it was part of our third round correct okay because I because I see the other ones that that I know were our overlay zone right I was just that's in the MF o-4 and it may not be clearly readable at this scale but yet uh if you look closer or if we we'll you'll have a larger map of this as it as it were with the document but that shows in in that overlay Zone category I just have a question yes so pron Commons um you show that as looks like single residents is that the single family residence that's probably another good catch um that corner or triangular piece that's near the railroad that should be probably designated into that category yeah because a lot of those units are you know two two people person units right it's more of a multif family designation than it is it looks like you have or Commons as commercial no Orchard Commons is in the multif family that's a brown well that's that little brown yeah yeah okay all right but I will change Crescent comes I also I also just I happen to look at a piece of property that I see every day because my commute um and just to just so the public is aware of it that's little that little piece at the end of D Mercurio that's on East Orchard some residents may see that there's some work going on there this is not a work discussion but that particular small piece of land is designated as open space and will remain as open space right that's where they see the guess there's utility work going on there yes yes okay so nobody gets okay any more for us that's what I have um the next meeting which is December uh 16th December Monday December 16 right that meeting I'll come to that meeting with a presentation on the hazard vulnerability and a draft one uh the purpose for that is to solicit the public for input so we look to make an advertisement of that on the web page if it all possible I can help you with the notice for that it's not really a formal notice but it's a really more descriptive and it breaks it down in more layman's terms as far as what we're doing board members any questions comments the discussion discuss all right good all right as always thank you thank you okay will you need me for the remainder um no okay thank you very much thank you I'll see you so moving on moving on with our agenda um as I already mentioned the uh the benowitz application being carried to January 15th so the next application applicant file 2024 Cade Brady and Jason F the address is 71 Brookside Avenue in Allandale block 1705 lot 15 and the application is for an existing of a non-conforming structure on an irregular flag lot and rear yard setback this is pursuant to 27057 D 270 - 37a parentheses 2 okay who will be speaking to the applicant first well why don't you introduce it and then I presume to to your right is your expert he's your professional but if you stand up raise your right hand give us your name and address we'd love to hear you Jason fil my wife's and apologies for the plus one we didn't have any baby s never apologize sorry so we moved to the area excuse me administer the oath you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth as you appear here this evening in support of this application than you thank you all right well thank you for coming for us and uh welcome and tell us what you want to do thank you so thank you we we moveed to the area in 20 March of 21 um a half Hazard Co by at the time fale um we're we obviously Charlotte is a new edition we're expecting another Edition March so we're looking to put a an extension on the the family room big little bit larger area also the three bed three bath um so obviously this is the New Jersey ACC orally so trying to expand the highest RIS of family over as well to visit so we're going to put a four off top of the some other explanations so am I am I understanding that your testimony is that uh you are uh seeking to expand for the purposes of the expanded family okay works all right uh and of course uh you have a professional with you tonight that designed this alteration all right unless the board members have any question of the applicant uh I would like to go ask you would you raise your right hand sir be sworn would you state your name and address for the record Thomas off valard also sir do you swear to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth in connection with your appearance and testimony this evening okay would you do you have uh what is your profession I'm a registered LIC architect State jersey9 St have you have you uh how long have you been licensed in New Jersey and is your license in good standing as you appear here this evening and you are familiar with this application yes all right why AR you narrate what you've done on behalf of the applicant okay so um as we kind of real quick we're looking to add a a family room addition which you're looking at the drawing packet that's the uh the blue square on the back side of the the building that'll be a one story family room addition um the pink area is part of uh second floor Edition um and the green area would be a twostory Edition that would house aom and part of the second floor floor plan get a full understanding um just to quickly touch on the variances that we're looking for we have two nonperformance positions one is the lot width and the second is a rear yard setback as you can clearly see from thep and we have a very uni shape this property um in fact for five years that I've lived in I didn't know this house there I um so you know because of the unique shape of the lot um plot line the almost horizontal plot line the back as a rear spot line thus making the 50 Foot rear yard step back somewhere kind of in the middle existing stru um the other one would the plock with um it's an existing nonconforming condition and we're not aling Phil let me take you through the floor plans just so you have a sense of what's happening with the conditions and just to interrupt with apologies uh when with this was submitted with the application or after the application with the application so it's considered part of the application and we do not Mark that as A1 is that correct yep okay this that would have been the next question is what you're pointing to set is the exact cop I printed this off thank you so uh real quick on A1 things of the existing uh floor PL uh first floor come into the Center Hall entry there the dining room the front kitchen kind of in the Middle with an open like living room B and then a full bath with a shower and pretty much like a mud kind of more like a car second floor you come up to the top of the stairs you have two bedrooms towards the front of the house one and then Master the there as well move it to sheet a two are our CL so what we're looking to do is put the addition um towards the back part of the house that would become the new family room the existing family room we're going to convert to make their kitchen a little bit larger right now the kitchen's a little bit uh narrow and a little bit tight so we're looking to expand the kitchen and make that kind of an deep kitchen area the front of the house will stay as is on the second Oh and before I go we are adding small mudroom addition it's basically a three five on the inside Dimension the existing outside wall out uh that'll create a little bit of a vest Fu area uh keeping the existing B intact um that also will enable us on our second floor for our new bedroom that gives us uh basically an 11 foot 6 by 11.9 new bedroom so uh we're not add a lot of add one more V to that area the one existing V the front left will be modified slightly just to provide access everything else on the second floor um get down elev and see how weed the one for condition we do have modify windows and then our story Edition with the the entry door to the side which is pretty much just pulling the elements that are there now kind of out a little bit further um we're not going above our the existing move height so we don't have any height issues concerned about um the siding uh will match the existing sighting I know that was one of the reports the existing siding is like a 100 green color the new siding matched that um to the record that's 4.1 of the engineers refie correspondence of November 4 where he asks the testimony in this record as to the proposed building finishes colors and material that's correct so everything on for the exterior will match the existing with the uh the trim and the sliding to match the exting act and as an architect and obviously having been to the site yes on more than one occasion you've observed the surrounding area would you consider this uh adaptation for the uh modification to be consistent with the streetcape in this area yeah sure you can't even see the house from the road uh you have to go down there's private drive back on the that access the back area where the house is located but the the additions do fit in nicely they're not massive the we are well under the floor area ratio allowed a lot um and then just to address a couple of the other issues your report uh the existing mechan mechanical equipment is currently housed on the uh the north side of the the property towards the rear uh yard of the adjacent property the front of the flag lot um that exist that equipment is existing to remain and we're just going to extend off of the existing equipment the new additions um when you say remain remain in place it's going to remain in place there are no new U know there's no new mechanical equipment going on the exterior as part of this work um and then the other question 4.3 was tree removal there is no tree removal necessary for these additions um currently there uh where the larger Edition is the one story Edition is just open grass area and this right now they're part of the walkway and a few uh like planting areas would be modified just stretched out a little bit to uh accommodate that um and then the new area will be uh we'll have probably some PL like around the perimeter and then the grass that's there is um what about water and sewer connections 4.4 I mean that could be looked at you know could spok as part of the construction work see if there's any necessary you know issues Mr chairman I'd like to ask the engineer would that satisfy your comments we'll be satisfied with that okay and and one thing thing also um you said nothing no change on no change on liting you you want to speak to lighting um the only thing as far as exterior lighting goes um right now adding or relocating the light by side door so going back to my elevations door that's here um there's currently a light adjacent to that door that's just going to be brought out further U there are no other lights proposed on the exterior uh if everything else would be existent to remain on it and that light would be obviously to ensure uh visibility and safety correct down the path to get to that because the U the garage is set back um on the property so and the driveway is the building as well so coming in that would just give you this ability one other drawing note just here um on the last sheet which I labeled C1 uh this basically is the uh tax path it shows the property with surrounding property and houses and you can see that you know how unique the shaped property is with the property the the one house uh directly to the east it was also on a unique shape and that property is actually determined by Ram strook that comes down in the property uh why you know one other issue and we are working on getting an engineer review in the very top corner of the property U for just a few square feet flood zone comes through that back area uh but it has no real impact on any of the area where our addition is going we are having an engineer evaluate that and a report yeah we took a look at the the flood hazard map and it does look like based on a visual inspection that it's on the property and all likelihood probably not impacting the elevation not impacting the house but we ask for a verific right that's you'll provide that and you understand that the engineer has also recommended in 4.5.1 uh that the applicant applied for and obtain a soil movement permit yeah you understand that would that be a major or a minor uh we only have a minor so it'll be a Min there you go so that does not require a public hearing no that'll be uh that'll be a condition getting the construction process construction process and you also know that at the end of the day if this board should approve your application the engineer has recommended that you provide and has built plan uh before requesting a certificate of occupancy which means what you represented what you've done is as shown on the as built plan okay you have no problem with that you'd agree to that as a condition if it's if it's established correct thank you I have one more question Mr chairman sir architect but not planner I have an actually planner you do well that's wonderful because the next questions are going to help this board decide your case or your client's case do you know what the criteria is to obtain a hardship variance as a professional planner that's the 70c variance that the engineer has pointed out out on the I believe his uh third page of his report of the November 4th you've been using throughout your testimony the words unique uh if I would to substitute the word exceptional uh to canote something different or unique uh from what I've heard you testify to it sounds like you've met the criteria for a hardship arei as a professional planner and I didn't qualify you as such but you testified as a planner before you have so let me ask you sir in your professional opinion do you consider the uh the applicant proposal to satisfy the criteria for hardship relief I do it is an exceptionally unique thinking doing architecture property that was as so I do believe that it does meet the criteria for I have nothing for it thank you do you have anything else to add no thank you for would your would your daughter like to add something I can swear her too Sor no no lovely lovely sorry welcome welcome welcome to um before I go to the board anything else no I mean we've been out there we looked at the site we reviewed the application V and it is it is a very piece of property now and uh unusual configuration and the addition is you know towards the the side of the property that's not be very visible at all for the surrounding property um I just have one I know the talking about the house but I have to ask a question there's no other disturbance ex I noted that there's a garage corre okay no none of that is being dist detached garage will remain out of this no work no work okay no change to the driveway configuration okay and so the small area that is closest to the Brock I know we're getting an engineer and you have your testimony there but there's nothing got to minimize everything i mbly r and's ex okay so the U the existing house is not colored in on this one I probably should haveed it a little bit different it wound up being colored in in the same basic shade as the property the blue is the new family room Edition the red is just the second floor Edition and the small green area is the twostory Edition um that we're putting on to house that invas what is the outline of the structure is outlined the blue square being the the single story family room right the uh and then the red and the green are the new addition that will compromise the or the U the new mudroom and the new second floor bedroom what about the existing the existing house is the shape that uh it kind of maybe pointed out here the gray and the r this one here it's gray on this so that's the existing structure so the house right any other questions the board no I think it's pretty obvious I mean I think all the years I've been sitting on these boards I don't think I've ever seen a piece of property shape like that and I think it's obvious that you've shown that there really is nothing you can do that's going to change the hardship at all right I mean I assume your down spouts all pitch you don't have elevations on here so I'm assuming all your down spouts pitch towards the corner of the Ramsey Brook where you have the blood way currently and you're not going to propose to have any new down spouts pitching anywhere else all once you get down always like it on the record that you're not have down spouts pitching toward your neighbor yeah this this one's pretty I don't have many questions yeah see I also have to share never um I I'm satisfied anybody else okay um what now what we do is we open it up to the public for any questions comments relative to this application or any of the testimony that you wrot okay seeing that I bring it back to board further discussion no okay um I have a motion please uh for approval Mr chairman I'll make the motion to uh approve this application based on the testimony I think the applicant has more than proven that the the hardship for the variance uh and also the stipulations that he testified to as far as the engineers's report and to our board attorney thank you sir I have a second over we'll give it to Mr D okay all right chairwoman Bergen yes board member Garo yes councilman deloo yes board member D yes chairman Siro yes mayor wasinski yes bant Butler yes bant C yes all right good luck back nice job so next month there'll be a resolution okay um and you don't have to be here in the meantime you can start to put stuff and get it in okay so um Stay Stay it won't be able to get permits until they thank you very much conr bye bye bye okay all right next on our agenda please is applicant file number 2024 D16 Daniel and CLA Clark 95 Midwood Avenue Allendale New Jersey 0741 block 208 lot two the application is for a new front for and the second floor Edition pursuing to 27037 parentheses A2 27064 C parentheses 2 27063 parentheses are you all right on behalf of the applicant who's going to test ify or or both will both of you okay so then why don't we have all the witnesses to expedite raise their right hand and give your name when I administer the Y pardon yes have let's do this first okay sure okay so raise your right hand to be sworn uh do you swear to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth uh as you appear this evening to provide testimony and support of this application right would you state your names and addresses starting to the right and sir are you appearing as a professional on behalf of this applicant thank you do you hold the plan's license okay so you testifying strictly as the architect yes but hang no no excuse me find out who's who's sitting so you have to go the next applications application Okay so cheers right I don't know how vested you are in this process but do you know why these individuals are refusing themselves okay and and happy to tell you because the land use Law requires that when it is an applicant involves a d variance uh the members of a governing body cannot sit and hear that application uh and that would be one of the individuals Rec husin herself was the mayor and uh a councilman so they are by by Dent of the statute called the New Jersey municipal land use law as well as case law required to recuse themselves and then we have to make sure also we have a quum which we we have a quorum but we we may have to talk about a vote on a d variance so I think in Def to their presentations we hear everybody now okay and then we'll talk about whether or not it's appropriate uh to take a vote tonight uh so you know anybody who isn't here tonight should this should the chairman and the board decide to carry this application or carry the vote incoming members at the next meeting would have to read the transcript certify that they read the transcript listen to the tape and then could vote if there was an issue with the number of votes being sufficient tonight for a floor area ratio variance we're going to talk about that we'll talk about okay so you said you wanted to make the presentation so or start tell tell us what you want to do tell us what your hardships are okay well I just wanted to introduce my husband myself we moved in in 2019 um very hary now start first gr um we just we love our neighborhood it's very happy here we have already done one project with John we add in a bedroom I think the per for that would Clos in January um we put a lot of love into the property th far um so you know make it what we we get this next speaker project um oh sorry but I also want to thank you for your time and I want to shout out to Linda thank you for your I just want to point out the last time the last you said you did a project before but that project did not require you coming for board everything was done gone through per permits whole thing there was no need and okay okay just want to put on the he must have it must have satisfied the Z y I'm just going through it now but I wanted to make sure we just have that okay okay all right right I just need to get a little more for the record if you don't mind Mr chairman and not trying to uh disturb your presentation but I think the board would benefit for just a little bit more what what generated the uh desire to engage the services of an architect for your addition was there something going on in the household or with the structure uh help us out very small C Three Capes in a row um we're very close to our neighbors on one side and have very generous side yard on the other side um got three kids you have one Jackel bathroom upstairs they're going through our room to use the bathroom the kitchen is like an impact it just it's not functional um and we also outside we love to be able to utilize our larger area that's more spacious like to kind of live on that side of the house we feel like we live on the side where the neighbor are our kitchen is right there our Pao is right on top of them if project our K will to the other side of the property our the other of the property we'll have I think for them and for us we'll have more privacy out for statewise um really try to go from the front door the back door yes that's one thing okay cramp space yeah okay like the um but we if we were able to do you know um we also we yeah you're able to do this it would be our lifestyle I think would be it's starting to take a toll on our on our family like that to just your fond neighborhood neighb love our neighbors neighbors um our next door neighbor the fireman um denn Murphy um yeah we been annual blog party they're very very all right so yes questions of what we just heard before we no okay so just to Sumit you basically about R your home basically correct yeah we just really use more space and functionality sry sorry I no we're just making sure everything is going going WR so I apologize for little bit behind yeah we'll do that now then we'll do the the profession all right we'll just keep everything moving right is is there anybody in the public that cares to comment on anything that you just heard okay see done so we're good now we're going to bring it back to Sir if you could go through a technical pieces you've already been sworn why don't you give us a little bit of your background in architecture where are you licensed sir I have a b architecture York Tech 1986 I got my license 89 about and your license is a good standing as you appear here this evening thank you sir thank you what was the scope of your engagement my engagement on this project was basically took like you know Claire had said Anis the [Music] bedrooms addition and it really Prett much thear the house house as far as that goes most of the first FL in the back say the same ex garage sayage is um that b so as far work s surve is BAS left as It Go um so we're going to take advantage of both this y Bas on the property and so um as far as [Music] theep cover porch on the left side which basically where we're coming into back of the house that actually projects the house as well as structure take the RO but the footprint not that increased so it's unfinished attic it's not going to be used for any occupancy just storage correct just want to put exct this roof this window is just there for Aesthetics like I said earlier the main house is basically from from here over and we're adding this and we're balancing so so essentially what you're doing is you're going from an appearance standpoint everything you're doing is to the right in the open to the rear except on the garage and this roof on the garage is going up about four and a half ft it look it's too low I mean it's almost still low but left it where it wasow to here um existing existing rich is not being so we don't have any kind of height situation does the does Aesthetics contribute to your design here and your proposal Aesthetics yeah that that was really important athetic of keep house looking it little would it be fair to say that uh what you proposed and what the applicant would like to see is uh blending in with and uh serving the streetcape in that particular area right the itself right now you're at 561 right it looks like 35.5 35 35.5 so right and that's that if you were to move you know the whole proposed structure over to the right would you be able to comply you know I know how it's tight to that side yeah I'm just curious you know because it's such an odd you know the the existing house is obviously in a unique location to the property you know it's not in the center I'm just curious you know if you were to move everything over to be centered like a typical new lot would if everything would um be in comp well you see have Bas asking have to B elate everything left that line no yeah no no I'm just I'm just saying in theory in theory like if you move had all the money in the world and you wanted to lift up the house and move it I was you know curious just thinking of the unique condition of the proper the size of this house see pretty much fit this so the side yards would be in compliance if you know you got reduce that I'm just trying to show that where the existing house is is creating the hardship the the hardship that's pretty much you know it's pretty much right with it's it's basic yeah just to be sure uh and get it on the record uh the F requirement for this Zone uh and size of the lot is 25% is that correcty close Okay and existing is currently 21% right yeah okay so that with the proposed addition you would be exceeding the maximum because it shows 30% is that correct okay so that brings you into the category uh of uh requiring a floor area uh ratio variance which is what is called under the land use law as a d variance okay and are you familiar with the part of the land use law and what a d variance requires in terms of a vote okay that I think somebody's raising their hand I do you want to help him yeah that would be called a super majority or five votes five affirmative votes we do not have five affirmative votes here tonight uh no we don't we have three right oh you do we don't have seven we have six they can all vote you can all vote yeah vote all right then we do yeah we have enough to do you need you need five affirmative votes now you're not here with Council but I should caution you or at least tell you that uh if you don't have five votes that variance would not succeed okay and so many times applicants and their Consultants decide to defer the vote until the board has its full compliment present that can hear the application I'm sure that's happened here on numerous occasions and I I think you should know that I don't know if you've had that discussion with the professional before arriving tonight but you should at least know that because you don't want to have an application hanging by a thread and you run short by a single vote tonight if somebody would vote out there would be we have two PE two board members are absent who are absent so if they watched and listened to the video at the next available meeting they would be able and legible to vote on your application if you feel that that's what you want you want it available to eight members as opposed to the six members that are here and and that's certainly your choice we we don't it shouldn't provide uh advice to you as to how you should proceed many people decide to put in their entire case which is what you're doing now and we thank you for that because you're here spending money and time and effort with your professional to create the record but then it would have to be carried if you are not going to a call for a vote tonight to maximize your chances by having seven members in their seats that can vote as distinguished from the necessity to have five affirmative votes because that's called the super majority okay think about it we haven't finished yet as we go around the room but I just thought this would be a good point in time Mr chairman to give them something to be thinking about as we conclude testimony you many times we have people as as Council pointed out that they come with a planner some people come with their employers so this advice is provided on your side but I guess cesy almost but here to to assist it's assistance it's not it's not it's not telling you to do it not adversar right okay want to be helpful right we want to be helpful oh that's fair that's fair all right what what I would like to do first yes sir is I'd like to have M yes before we open up to absolutely all right so so I mean if I could just maybe spend a couple minutes going through what I have in my report just so everyone's aware what the situation so know the existing property does have some existing M and proposal um going to create some new con so for example U the existing delling encroaches into the rear yard setback The Proposal is situation it's an undersized lot what they're doing is they going to change the size of the property where with their property but in addition to having issues with the setbacks The Proposal is going to exceed the floor area ratio which is a d variance and and hardship is not one of the proofs for a d variance hardship is generally a proof for a c variance and like the board has heard many times in actually the previous application they were looking for Vault variances associated with the location of the proposal on the property and hardship is one of the proofs for that type of deviation but not for A4 um correct and you know the floor area ratio is directly related to the size of the house not necessarily location of structure The Proposal is going to exceed the allowable gross building area which again is you know related to size of the addition not necessarily the configuration property and um as was talked about a little bit by the applicant uh you know the gross building area triggers the enhanced side yard setback so the side yard set bag requirement that is larger than it is currently existing some of the proposed addition is going to be located within that enhanced side yard setback on the right side so there'll be some additional non-conformities I'm sorry on on left side of the lot but the right side is going to conform with the you can't sign the other thing uh that we noted was that uh know there's an accessory building the shed on the property that currently is located too close to uh the property lines and believe as part of the application sh has being proposed to be removed assist sh so so the shed's going to stay where it is so there there's another situation that's that's not conforming and the shed contributes to the gross building area calculation so there's there's a little bit more than just a simple u c variance here it's it's obviously a D4 use variance uh and and you know like I said before Park ship isn't the standard for that you put forth on the record they so so one thing as I'm looking at this plan right now in the upper leftand corner of shet Z1 the there's a note there it says new le I think it says with new shed so that's now that has to be modified yes that should be St so was the is the size of the existing shed different is it less same I think the chairman is asking well yeah it says existing is it new is it existing I'm having a hard time reads yeah what is what is that saying okay de is so be we'd be willing to reduce the size of it because it doesn't need to be big so but it just needs a little bit of work set the house but but the plan is to leave it where it is so the the current shed it's it's on the B on the property line I mean a fence there that's property but it's basally prop on and it's 17 where the original proposition was to pull the shed and put make sure that it was within the six the six feet if you rebuilt it you'd Pull It in six feet off the line so did you look into a design that met the um the floor area ratio that was that's you know permitted then what would that entail question never so it's your professional opinion that even with a revisionist pen you could not reduce the proposed floor area ratio to comply with the maximum floor area correct yeah I second it's complying now yeah no no I understand that we talking about the addition the addition right that's what I'm talking you couldn't scale that in make first well yes I mean you would you know you I guess to meet the code you could theoretically I guess build liate some of the first here and build it up isn't doood understood I think the concern is is that you started out 20% below accept value now you're 20% over it so it doesn't appear like you try to comply is what the way it comes to for at all well you went from I'm sorry you started 2400 and you went 36 I don't think so just read the numbers propose 368 12 said 20% okay right 20% is ratio you're at 20 and you're currently at 20 with a ratio 21 20% below the 24 number and thenum basically 20% above I I have 24.6% required for this at 20.6 4% below right going the other way 5% right well started with 25 end up 30 25% okay right that's what he means percentage right so the concern is is that you just you're just building a house as opposed to try to mitigate a little bit so yeah we're just trying to I think understand we're just trying to you know if other things looked at right yeah I'm sorry but listen this you know we have you've been before you know so were there other options were there other things that were looked at to try and reduce the require the needs for for for variances or there other options that you looked at right I mean there was one thing that we discussed and then we decided to keep it the way it is because the garage is puted in we have a very small garage house like this nice to have a real we AB that would okay so back it was so you looked at other options of moving that garage over like this you keep garage like that but then we decided for a couple one numers and number two c and I mean when I looked at the plans that was one of the first things that hit me I like okay A little fight we talk about it you know could believe me I'm not into spending people's money okay but being you know what we do on the board what other things were looked at is I mean it's 11,000 foot I know it's not a hard say we have 11,000 12000 foot 8000 like below and to add the garage made it that much against on the first Flor [Music] exting that's large I mean the primary bedroom and the primary bath on the second floor and then the kitchen and the pantry and the office I mean I know it's not um what you're proposing isn't out you know outrageously big but I mean they are spacious um if if you reduced you know and brought the house in slightly and reduce the size of the kitchen or the office and just a little bit from you know above the same amount could you get the floor area ratio that is permitted in in response to the board members question what would it come down to if not to meet the requirement if those modifications were made we're 20 where right yes in the side I don't think we come in the back I'm sorry I didn't hear you I'm sorry no I'm sorry what we were saying um no reating about the shed the shedar B sh but you can't eliminate the garage shed oh in other words If you eliminate the shed then the Garage essentially becomes your area for SAR like that it's not it's not a quote unquote put my car the garage what is the current shed size the current shed 20 by1 okay and then the proposed new is the same just relocate Al we so so let's say you made a by 12 100 square feet shed just to have the shed that's 100 square ft now in the positive as Rao right right and then it have you've explored you know I when I look at the plan the right side addition if you were to explore moving the right side line in have small piece in the back you do have a very large kitchen you have you know and then the space above I think you probably could make it work in the bathroom the bedroom walking closet it could it could it could move move in so that's two floors worth of whatever square footage you can get out of it that works possibly even that little piece on the back um the back side of the of the kitchen to get it to try to be close just right now it's quite excessive we get it close did you have any pictures of jent houses is just um contexts to you know the neighborhood because I know there's a lot of smaller houses and um you know this is doubling the size of your house almost um and I'm curious just would like to see proximity of the new addition to other houses I didn't see anywhere um and just in context to the adj on the side really CL that's small andar look at the survey but on the other side heard two board members speak to the heart of the issue here um and frankly I believe their questions were presented to give you the opportunity to think through and maybe modify your drawings to bring you closer to compliance that is an important thing for a land use board to take into account um so that they can say that the if they were inclined that the applicant made U significant adjustments uh to move the F closer to compliance and therefore given its reduction uh in the proposed F uh to closer to what the f requirement is that might be considered something the board would look on favorably but i' I you've heard a a suggestion from one board member that gave you some areas to explore if you were inclined to we're not telling you to do it but if you if you're reading the tea leaves it might be something that might help you Landscaping yeah we touch yeah I think a good idea the some some of the technical comments typical comments that we discussed we talk about alterations ands to hear something about the finishes the colors the materials to make sure that the streetcape Viewpoint that it's going to fit it with you know the surrounding existing color any any flood lights or any lights that would be obnoxious orive everything would be down down L would you make that representation sir that the lighting that will be shown on the plan that you're asking the board to be approved will be down lit so as not to uh intrude upon neighboring properties dra no I apologize I'm sorry you were talking go ahead next any any thought on any proposed landscaping and you know given the fact that your own and likelihood coming back you may want to think about that if you don't have an answer today something no I don't think we're looking for landscape plan put together by landscape architect that but just some kind of sense of what you may do to maybe given the fact that it's you know a larger addition to make it more appealing yeah okay um as we typically do we recommend that you know sewer connect should be investigated before it's used that's generally done you know with some kind of camera camera work that would that be that would be okay and then uh 4.5 given given the size of the proposal they would trigger the SW FL plan requirements and that review get into the site rating and manag just for the benefit of the applicant um you know we we took a look at this from more of a contextual layout standpoint and and the zoning requirements we haven't looked at what maybe required for you know for storm water management Orting do you envision sir issues that they we might be able to share with the applicant so that they wouldn't have to come back again after they made the bricks and mortar revisions to meet the floor area ratio yeah I mean generally when we review the the plot plans and the soil movements we take a look at uh you know the additional coverage that's being proposed uh there's generally some kind of stor water management system that's designed most times it you know it it's designed to handle the runoff of the roof area uh would be that's correct that's generally the way process works but just you know for the benefit of your client you know it would be another step that would have to be work through to demonstrate that you're not going to have any negative impact of the additional run off the additional impervious coverage of that year CH from wrong though don't we sometimes see that on what's don't we sometimes see that sometime sometimes the applic has it all together on on the plan but there's a number of applications that come in uh that kind of show it shows a line work trying to get the variance approval the engage an engineer once the approval is obtained and the uh you know the code you know requires that the application be approved before you obtaining building so it could be a one-step process often it's a two-step process I if I may okay I been I've been up here for some years since you're you're likely coming back oh okay you're likely coming back um to to maybe even have some of this stuff at the r in in a in a mar this is a this a this a this is pretty complete what's here but you're hearing what the board is asking okay and and this is not unusual in questions that we pose out there okay given these types of of variation requests okay so I guess the more information that you could give this board like we're always sensitive to lights we're always sensitive to runoff okay if it can get knocked out in now versus later on that helps because when we start asking the questions anyway and we do it we do it on Commercial and we do it on residential this is the line of questioning I I don't know if you guys have ever done this before you've been before the board all the questioning that is coming out right now is I've heard hundreds of applications we do the same thing so it's not anybody being singled out okay um so and we and and and I personally know I I've driven back there these properties and when I was moving to the town these properties they're small and I know that they're not you know a lot of stuff is conformant okay the existing but when we're talking about making these kind of things more information that you could arm this board with in making your case it helps us out it'll help you out down the road with the work that has to be done with the engineers okay because then we also get into correctly for on the as buil plans yeah that'll be all the demonstrate that they built it which the approv correct exactly exactly but that's standard that's that's sop yeah standard operating okay so um I well I believe having heard what you heard from the board members who had questions to assist you with revisiting the concerns that your variance requests are presenting and you've heard from the board professional uh would you be inclined to uh move to carry your application uh to come back with with revised plans okay I that's great uh well the issue here is a let's talk about when you can come back when when would they be available December 16th are are we good for them well the tight but yeah well more importantly the question is you get it uh days before it's not and then you have the issue of notice will your notice not if we carry it tonight then you don't have to re notice if we announce tonight that it's December 16th you're set if you don't announce it then you have to Ren notice that's one and two the other standard is is the public aware uh when we come back if there any material change in what they're seeking and in fact you're seeking less presumably in terms of the variance releas so that would be a good thing and I think we could support uh an opinion that you would not need to re notice okay Lind looking at looking at the propose for December I'm looking at the 16 yep it's tight it's tight question for you under the mechanical sections um other than the hbac do you have a generator anything like that going in four more people are putting four more people are putting Bon I mean we are finding that more and more people are putting them in that we have to review where they go as part of the overall as part of the overall plan like if you're doing it for this it would be for any new H equipment just located yeah we just want to see where it's that was the reason um one of them is a conceptual produc December um which should only be 10 minutes the other one is a modification to a resolution and the one before that and the one before that's going to take a while that's going to take a while yeah and then we also have Ed's presentation before that to the public also and us are you in a rush to to get this done to be heard for the second time Rush would be a strong word okay apologies let me let me you can wait apologies let me ask it this way if you were to let's just say if you were to get approval tonight when were you start this okay okay all right that's it so so um how what do we have the so we already know that we have the one that was carrying to to to January it's that one and it's the reorder and the and that should be yeah the reor is easy okay the re's just a lot of votes it's just a lot of votes yeah um again if I'm at on line Council my recommendation to you would be take some time tap the breaks the holidays are coming okay come tell us on the come tell us in January okay and you will be third basically third on the list now I'm counting with the fact we have a rearch we have to go through all appointing of professionals All That Jazz Tak a little time it's a little time it's about 20 minutes okay um so and then there's one application that you already heard while you were sitting here that we were carrying and you guys would be oh okay and a lot of the a lot of what you're GNA you know you've already touched on most of this so it's just a modification have explain you're do all that so that would be my recommendation to you all right that would I also would um um would probably okay I would also recommend that you um include in the packet kind of as you had requested you know we all go down the street we we do some upfront stuff but it's part of the whole information that we know what the rest of the neighborhood your case yeah okay of what's around you know okay I know you have picture right here is the shed much appreciated but like show us your house show us what's next to it show us you know take from your house this way take you know what the proposed is g to look like sometimes yeah but I yeah get to get some context on right what the name and I also you know the board the board is not one that that listen we we we try and work with everybody okay so and our professionals are here okay you opened up with thank you Linda and thank you for that okay Michael here to all right if there's questions or or antiy okay that yeah Michael right I mean that yeah they can get in contact with you okay it's not you know it's not just do everything and they come before us no there's other people here that can help you get to the point up front um and again you're hearing the questions of the board and and I agree with councel I'd much rather see you come back with revisions okay and explaining things in closer to compliance is a great thing have a great holid we um it could I could I could all anybody from the public here okay thank you so we're going to carry January right we're gonna We record you to carry it to January okay we have to do anything else all right further notice okay so you're G the new date January it'll be January 15th there you go okay January 15 yeah and as Council said to bring it closer to being we need no extension right Linda no they're just signing it okay okay great I didn't know what they were signing okay great we'll do that all at once although there's a whole body of law that talks about whether or not uh C variance are subsumed in D variances which are special reason variances but we'll take it that night great all right thank you thank you everybody good keep going all right all right um the next is uh file number 2024-25 Park Avenue Allendale block 2206 lot 7 the application is for a two-car garage and a two story Edition pursuant to 27063 parentheses 3 27064 C parentheses 2 and 27057 D okay thank you I see you here how are you you too um my name is Michael mey no no please no we're good I want anybody who's going to testify to raise their right hand and as I administer the you all if you are testifying uh swear tell truth hold truth and nothing but the truth and connection with this application thank you now whoever is going to testify who's going to start okay would you uh then indicate your name and address for the record yes my name is Michael mey I'm at 246 Park Avenue here at Help U we do have one other person who's going to be testifying just stepped out of the room so just wanted to let you know that um um with me today is Jeff Hower um and John masinski is actually my architect as well who was here previously um my wife Dana here is by my side um I'm a 40y year resident of Allendale uh my wife is 30 plus year resident of Allendale as well uh R here um account pretty much anywhere else and want to continue living here um and put our 1916 arts and CFT home uh in a little bit pressure light um it's small um but it's warm and we love it and we just want to improve on the exterior of it um in the same way that it is same coloring and everything else and keeping it in the sort of traditional uh way um but we need to expand it a little bit and make some improvements the garage is old and it's right alongside the corre uh right along the alale brook or the ram Brook excuse me it's not good for anybody to have it so close so we would like to Bren that up we' also expand it to be a two-car garage um and in doing so because of the way the layout would be to bump out our kit to make sort of space um which is where the deck is current um so we are expanding the house um for sure um our bedroom upstairs would also increase a little bit we've had original plans where the upstairs would go to the distance of the uh the new living space but we dialed that back to conform with the uh the ratio that we're been discussing a little bit i' like here tonight uh we're very uh we recognize that there are those issues side set backs as well um one side set back that we have a competion on would be to put a HB in it uh we don't have uh a finishing our home um and so actually I'm sorry that would be the generator I apologize one step back on the side actually generator um and we would like to put in an Haack unit which would be concealed by plantings and all these sorts of things um we've taken all that into consideration in the plans both in the engineering plans as well as the architectural plans um and we want to um want to be able to have people into our home a little bit more comfortably with any in-laws who now live in Florida um and um we host a Halloween party every year because New Street is so big and we literally have 150 people in our house every day and we can't um we also have some damage to the homeall so the in the recent storms we have the deck that out there is needs to replac anyway so um we are hoping to do this fairly soon because there is some issues with the deck and for that nature so we are um uh perhaps not on a time crunch because of a a newborn being born or something like but we do have some issues that we would like to get defined um from an aesthetic perspective and also structur persective so we um we're here to answer any questions for you and I'm going to leave the rest to my uh professionals but Happ before we get to your professionals just I noticed that you were sitting in the audience during the prior application is that correct that's correct and you heard everything that was discussed by either myself the board engineer and members of the board regarding uh the vote required for a floor area ratio which is a D4 variance if you are familiar with that designation maybe through your professionals or your own research okay and so that therefore because of what vote is required to obtain it uh you should be aware that we're down two members tonight okay um that said that means that uh you could certainly put in your case tonight and rely on the fact that uh absent board members would if you choose not to call for a vote and enhance your percentages by having more members vote to get your super majority uh they would have to listen to the tape and be satisfied with what they've heard be able to come back and vote uh on this application you understand that I do thank you for the explanation um we have talked about it um we not ourselves um just independently of what's necessary for that Fe Bo um we hope that the um expert testimony will help um it explain to you why we believe those the ratio is actually within even though it's not conforming to the actual uh ratio uh but we do feel that you'll see why it's being done in a way that's I don't how to say legitimize that's certainly your decision to make yes the board is and its professionals are here to assist to a point but these gentlemen and Lady uh sit tonight as quasi judicial officials so they are listening to the evidence in order to make findings of fact and reach conclusions on the testimony in this record uh they're very kind when they ask questions to assist you to get on the record the kind of testimony that's necessary NE AR uh to have uh the kind of vote you're looking for those questions are welcome okay well that's good to hear but you you do understand having sat through what you just sat through on a prior or that the requirement here is 25 and you're seeking 38% so as your professionals testify hopefully they will address what you've heard as well as how you're going to demonstrate why that ation is appropriate underst thank you thank you please would you raise your right hand and be sworn name Jeffrey Hower HR okay um I think we did swear you so let's talk about your your uh qualifications where were you educated and what licenses do you hold I've earned I earned my bachelor of engineering degree from Stevens Institute technology in hobok in3 I am Li the started Houser Engineering in 2009 I been many boards not been front this board before and been received as an expert in civil engineering anding and your license is in good standing as you appeared tonight and testified yes incidentally do you hold the planner's license sure I do okay that that's fine uh you You' got enough on your plate with engine in these days uh okay would you indicate what the scope of your engagement has been for this applicant yes uh several months ago uh the applicant engaged me after Consulting with his AR that should of demolishing the existing attached garage constructing an addition and new attached gar um having worked with architect before in the past uh soon as we discovered that property was jent to the ram Brook um as you know here in lovely New Jersy there are many sets of regulations and what hazard area regulations have become more and more stringent over the years so before they spent any money on architectural plans or renderings or anything like that they vot be wise uh to look over not only the zon element some of the environmental possible Environ con and through that effort uh we did discover that the L Brook does have a blood Hazard area elevation stud body of water both by FEMA and by the department protction so um with that we then ordered a full boundary topographic survey so we understanded understood all of the elevations associated with prop what is really restricted blood Hazard area regulation there's really two elements to everybody's familiar with the connotation blood I think the flight elevation but there's another element to it called the repair so this the initial focus of our investigation hous Brook impact property we discovered it's not a category one could require 150 are rather only a 50 then we did discover that um blood elevation on the property does come up quite a bit and um I don't think you have this plan so I'd like to introduce this as exhibit whatever number you want to call it A1 well I believe frankly it would be A2 would it not or would it be A1 okay okay okay A1 so this is called NJB sir sir if you may let just if you would in mind please just we keep everything for the record thank you yeah anywhere that's as long as it's Mark point Thank you so this is called njp blood Hazard area FHA verification essentially what we're doing is uh we took the existing survey um and we're highlighting the elements that apply to flood Hazard area regulation I'm just going to point out a few things uh pertaining to the flood then we'll get into some of the zoning element as well so uh on the northwest side the property is ransy Brook here okay and actually the property line is right down Center um 50 ft off the edge of the the bank of this Brook is our repairs so where I'm pointing right here okay everything from this side to the book all disturbances associated with this property are regul some fashion there's a number of different levels of permits you can get uh to to do different activities but you can see here the this uh attached garage right here is entirely within the repair okay there's also uh a floodway floodway is where more rapidly moving water uh occurs during flood events this is from the FEA map this is the floodway limit of the flood goes directly through that and and if I may ask that is called out in number one it's on it's on number one in our handouts okay this is just a little clean okay then we also have again the Department of Environmental Protection did their own flood St okay they determined the flood elevation um was at elevation 267.8 which follows this line we're I'm poting um really close to to Park Avenue down across the driveway basically intersects the existing dwelling goes around and comes out the other side over here there is also FEMA study that was done slightly different FEMA study determined the elevation was flood elevation was 26.9 which uh isn't quite isn't quite as high Falls a little bit outside it thema numbers are what's used for flood insurance purposes you can see that line actually does not counter the house at all that's why uh don't have flood insurance right structure now what happened a couple months ago um the DP changed their regulations so these are the flood elevations but they said if you want to do development Ono proper you could do you could if it's a state study like Department Lage Your Design flood elevation that elevation plus two or if you use the FEMA number it's FEMA plus three right so now we've delineated our new design flood elevation that we have to do all our permitting for at elevation [Music] 269.99 requires permits from the Department envirment so there's three levels of DP permitting what activities there's something called a permit by rule smaller projects they usually exempt you don't have to do anything um just as long as you don't cross a threshold if you know that you have it if anybody asks you can report that to them you small addition sometimes they're eligible for that maintenance activities things like that then there's a general permit which slightly larger uh thresholds and lastly is an individual fir uh after we've had all this information we understood what the applicant wanted to do from an addition perspective we consulted with the DVP had a communication they advis this project as desired one to individual so um in addition to seeking varans relief for this proposal we also have to go to the uh to get FL Hazard area verification to did we apply for this this map that I produced here has been submitted to the DP they're going to review it hope we spit it about a month ago so hopefully within two months we're going to have confirmation that our analysis here is correct on top of that the individual permit application that is uh for our proposed activity which we also filed with an understanding that takes about three months as well and we're really hoping if results are favorable so this as presented or some variation of it that we'll be able to uh catch up with the deed before they proove that were denied that the patient so there is a timing element to this so that said um we really wanted we had to propose to keep everything outside the flood there's there's no real circumstances from the deep PE perspective that they want things in the FL of this very extreme circumstance you also want to be outside the repairing so when we were designing this that those were our main features fortunately uh for our analysis of saying leaving the sign FL elevation at elevation 269.99 do a little bit more than 3et a leway terms of where the first floor is and what the flood elevation you're allowed to build conru dishs within the flood Hazard area provided that the first floor lowest occupied floor which in this case is the first floor is above that flood um getting into proposal itself back to our main plan here um and the plan you're referring to is unfiled with the application and is part of the application and this was this was called zoning plan we initially did this just to to file a zoning permit we anticipated denial and understood we so um what we proposed is U an addition here with the first Flo even with the current first floor EVs and then a garage floor that stepped down quite a bit um the the addition of the living space is going to be up on comp so that when a flood event does come and now keep in mind we're very conservative in how the DP is describing a flood event if it does flood all the way up here I think for a trouble but they're projecting out like 500 um that the flood waters that are going to occupy that occupied space right now aren't going to be in people uh similarly with the garage itself obviously you can't elevate a garage you have to get a vehicle into so the garage is set lower now be designed to be flood resistant structurally but also have blood flood vents to allow the flood vent to come in into it won't cause hydrostatic pressure and flood work come in and get out um we also propos a small deck off the back small deck decent siiz deck that that deck is eligible for something pery rule that I mentioned before from the or within the threshold of that um with the addition itself from a zoning perspective and paum and and a patio patio is 127 squ okay um what we're trying to do with this is is keep much of our proposed activity within the pre-existing distace you notice the Pao is basically kind of within the the garage area we have to get in there demo it but it's actively Disturbed as term for land that's not virgin or Reg uh from a zoning perspective this is an undersized line Zone a residential Zone requires 20,000 square fet of area we just over 11,000 square fet it's about 55% of what the size of of a property the zone is required to the zone does require um 15ot side yard setbacks 50 foot rear yard setback and um 35t front yard Center the existing house itself already has existing nonconformities for the front yard setback and for the side yard set the the we're not modifying anything with the front yard setback front of the houses to remain exactly the same uh where on the Northern side here um currently the house is at 12.1 ft from the sidey yard um the addition we decided to bump it in a little bit we didn't want to encroach any closer we wanted to maintain that so the addition that goes back about 16 ft is going to be 12.2 from try to um on the other side the garage itself again sidey set back to the Zone 15 ft we're at 15.5 now there is an enhanced set setback within this Zone that's a product of the size of the house um so when with this proposed addition um the enhanced setbacks actually become 25.2 each so we're we're we're expanding on both of those setbacks um the reality is with only a 90 foot wide lot that's another existing nonconformity you'd only have a 40 foot sliver on the property to construct a house and a garage and that's just not a so um two two other physical improvements that we're we're proposing here um this ties into both zoning and the flood Hazard area is mentioned the air conditioning unit Cur house doesn't have an air conditioning unit modern homes now we air conditioning we propos that on the Northern side here um there was a lot of deliberation amongst the applicants myself the architect on where this the most appropriate Place mechanical equipment has to be above the design flood okay um we're already a situation where we're requesting a rear yard variant um we were hesitant to put it in the front of the house um the northern property line has a good natural um screening with landscape so the combination of the fact that this is the highest and driest area on the property uh the natural grade there is only it's less than a foot below the designed flood elevation so we would have a minimal platform for for the equipment um it's away from the brook it's away from the backyard it's one of the nice features of of a brook is the sound of a Brook Run don't necessarily want to get S of a brook and an air conditioning so we wanted as far away as possible we felt that this is the most appropriate solution um we also proposed a generate similarly it's mechanical equipment has to be high and dry above the flood elevation there was no ideal spot um but we felt very comfortable putting it uh on the South Western corner of the existing house on a slight platform there's already some natural Landscaping there we're going to obviously hide and nobody wants to drive up and just see a gener erator so we'll put a lot of planting around that so it aesthetically disappears um overall this this project is resulting in a slight increase in impervious coverage um through the demolition of the existing garage expansion I believe I 6 or 700 square foot increase in impervious coverage uh to compensate for that um we proposed storm water drywell um and in a new expanded Drive order to facilitate vehicle maneuvering into this new twocc car garage slightly widen in the driveway here and in the corner of it we proposed a dryw with a great uh these plans are not fully complete yet we would add some uh piping from the down spouts of the addition to run to that as well um but overall from a drainage perspective there's minimal grading that we're doing part because it's regulated by the DP we can't add fill to the to the 100e flat out Zone and um the drainage patterns will pretty much maintain on the property and we'll have zero de runoff as a result of our proposed storm water improvs utility wise we intend to maintain the same existing utilities public sewer public water electric gas um overall uh a lot of deliberation went into this concept there was multiple iterations back and forth over several months um architect speak more to the layout of the house itself I think applicant mentioned before we had a larger structure here in terms of this addition was formerly presented as a two-story Edition we reduced it down to one once we realized where the floor area ratio was we decided to reduce it down um in this neighborhood uh there's similar sized houses that don't have the exact dimensions of the houses or the square footage just looking at aerial images it's pretty close I will say there's another unique aspect to this lot itself it's not the lot but the neighbor lot okay the neighbor's lot an L-shaped lot that comes around so the house is situated behind on the other side of the brook so where the bulk of our I'll say um the neighbor that we most affected by what we're doing here would be through S okay but the reality is all that is right here is a driveway to a bridge that crosses over to the house in the back so there there's minimal impact in terms of encroaching on that neighbor's where they would be occupying space entertaining people or or anything all they're really using is a driveway so um that's why we we maintain the the 15.5 foot from the side guard set back there with an understanding that it is still a variance but we want to stick with Le maintaining 15ot initial from the Z and really to get have a two-car garage on this property the only way to do it is to have the the garage Face Forward can't have a side loing garage it would cause more disruption again keeping in mind it's there's environmental constraints here so that's really in order to get a two Garage on this property that's the only way to make from that standpoint infilling here U mod Ste bulk out of the house um not an enormous amount not affecting anybody else if we didn't have this here again we have good natural uh existing screenings here the house to the north it's further away um there's a good I don't want you have the exact distance but they're they're further away with their driveway their detached garage on the other side house wa so most of their activity is away so there good natural privacy um so from a hardship perspective uh it's an undersized lot the C1 perspective undersized lot justifies side yard setback variance rear yard setback variance the benefit to the community here um we are removing an older detached garage that is literally in the flood we're removing it more environment pring it's safer if they FL event came and that's the garage ended up getting washed out some harm to the public wherever ended up so we're going to put in a new modern garage that's been designed with stand hydraulic pressures structurally handle it let the flow through and it'll be in conformance of all flood requirements and FHA requirements um from the Flor area ratio perspective I know a hardship is not a justification for this but the reality is I don't think there's any adverse impact U to anybody here uh it's a modest house if this house was on a conforming lot the allowable floor area is 4600 sare fet but we're uh we're at 4,200 so I know hardships not an element to it but uh the house isn't oversized for the Zone the lot itself but again I go to there's a lot of privacy here we're not adversely impacting them we're not approaching any closer there's a brook here actually the house behind us this is their garage doors back here so we're not really affecting their outdoor living at all and on the side here uh driveway itself uh again it's just people driving by they're going to see structure slightly closer than the old pached garage that that's impact so um know I I I think there's minimal impact to the neighborhood and the surrounding properties as a result of this and it's a safer situation than the current one and it's consideration of all the you have any questions for me more than happy to answer if Michael has I know I wrote I read through his report I have no issues with anything in his report we'll be able to I think one of the topics was lighting and Landscaping I did touch on it the Landscaping we will provide sh Foundation plan things aesthetically it's to my client's benefit to do that to the neighborhood's benefit to do that from a lighting perspective uh it's going to be typical residential lighting uh nothing will be shining out bright flood flood lights or anything like that just natural lighting around the building itself then apply for S movement application um before before I have ask question so relative to I mean they're here for zoning issues this property is constrained by a lot of environmental issues and something that you may want to consider is you know the the proof for a de4 variance is whether the site can accommodate the proposal not withstanding the fact that they can't be def ratio mean they put together an an engineer plan and filed permits to the D address the environmental constraints that are probably more restrictive and impose uh more constraints on the property than than the FL area ratio then then the zoning is down so I I think um you know there's a lot of unique aspects of this piece of property uh I don't think the the big issue from my perspective is really zoning I think it's environmental constraints and you know that'll be in the hands of the D but it seems that they made a good effort to try to remove things that are in the existing worst locations and po things that are in you know possibly better locations the one question I do have is the uh the two platforms that you're proposing for the mechanical equipment are are those attached to the to the building they'll be like decks or they going to be freestanding where they're at they'll be free stand they'll be free stand if it was any higher probably off building but we're we're literally only 6 off the ground just just enough to get it above the regul Michael can I before you go further maybe I'm not understanding something here you guys have made a great effort putting this whole together I thought I heard you say maybe you back it up that whatever we're doing here all of this could be negated if the TP comes in maybe I'm paraphrasing the f Way DP comes in and says H way but it's yeah I mean that's an outside agency that has regulatory authority over a lot of this piece of property and they have to you know submit the application and and get their to do that now that I mean I I'm guessing you're wondering why they're here so I'm kind of like wondering if we're doing this backwards it's up to the applicate and how they want to proceed these These are Outside Agency approval that we don't have control over and we don't have the authority to say you have to go get that approval first before you come to us we opted to kind of do it simultaneously understanding that either agency could ask for and it is it's sometimes variance might be a bigger lift than than the DPP we feel pretty confident about what we put here for here we get it approved But ultimately they have to review in the event you're fortunate enough to get a favorable vote on this appliation and the DP came back and said we need to make a change depending on the nature of that change I can't see the change being uh expanding on any variances were buting here [Music] today down what the possibility exist it should have to come back re Force there is that there is that yeah me the D you know mandates in order to get the permit you know you need to do X Y and Z and that's a material change to the plans that the applicant presented to the board you know there's a possibility that have to come back this is the same thing we discussed with uh West cres I guess the other thing I I want to point out you know there's not a you know the they're proposing you know what looks to be a very you know usable twocor garage just to theary Rao the G building here we don't see that uh regularly in a lot of applications but it seems like you know this particular application is proposing a functional real real garage that uh you know accommodate a couple vehicles and then with the garage there's bonus doesn't obviously there but that's contrib what if it was just a one what if it was just the one part I mean you guys you know you sat you guys sat already heard us as I said we're not singling anybody out here anything like that but you heard the questions in the previous one it's going to be same questions what if what if okay a lot of one AG but yeah that's um the other the other thing that's standing out for me um and again as I've said there's there's people on the sports have been here a long time I've been doing this for a some time I don't ever recall seeing an application where a generator and HVAC equipment is towards the front of the proper okay per wrong thank you okay but isn't that house that house is kind of weird in the middle of parket balance it is that's that's Corner property property Corner property um the alternative generator location we were contemplating was on the side of the garage here MH but that would just create another variance that would that and it would have to be elevated up more of an ey sort because we have to get it up we had no we can't the garage doors would be here this interior are Entry Way tried to hide that's why we that was most appropriate I guess in theory we could put it over here next to thec but we're trying to break it up a little bit but not just all mechanically put like I said feel pretty confident they don't want to look at definitely don't want I don't disagree with you with that respect how close is the house to the north you you made a comment that the um that the house there's a buffer between the house north of currently the house is 12.1 ft from the the property light the other house oh it's it's probably about 30 40 ft away from the property there's a dense row a tree there very large and tall Michael I interrupted you was there something else I'm sorry for interrup uh I mean I we'll hear from the architect but I I just wanted to also point out that you they don't they're not asking for a height variance they're proposing a height that's basically at the limit so if there's some deviation due to unforeseen circumstances or construction related issues you know we're expecting if this was to be approved the height the Asel height to beet the requirement yes so everyone clear well the is the existing um height of the your existing house it's going to remain the new addition is going to match that right correctly and it's only increase in height because out back yeah out the back but it's it is it is being proposed as right and we taken we've taken that into consideration in various other applications know property slip TOS the back so so not I'm not going a little sleep over that um you guys I just I guess for for the benefit of the P my own questioning um what do we have Floyd or Sandy or what this yeah so so just for historical purposes briefly you know what happened like what did you guys get what happened I can tell you because I took video of it all um we have the garage itself has a stone foundation and then there's um board I guess that goes up Beyond it the highest it's ever gotten was no further than the so it's never come up to the wood itself on the property it's only hit the stone foundation of the then you say that's two feet off yeah oh it's in some spots BL closer to the to the front of the house it's very little yeah um the highest part is probably with that and the highest part being the part closest that's that would be pretty close to what F said so it's never gotten to your deck and it's it's never even come close to the other side because how I don't know I can't speak to this from a from a real way but um the flow of the river goes away from the house actually so it kind of goes around this way and then around so it doesn't even come up to the left side of the be on to the left side of the garage it's never come up that way you can because I have to admit when I looked at you know when I looked at the pl that was first yeah one of the first things because I know cely was wack I mean it's not necessarily relevant to your property but I know that thing does hold not behind c yeah that's why we're here the property is considerably higher than any of the Neighbors in in the area actually people down the river or cross the way are far lower than our our some neighbors contacted me sent out notifications hey how you gets that's it you're out of luck I can't help you on thiser they picked the high spot and the property should be referring to so again I it is but more towards the South what would be considered towards the South you're you're questioning our engineer at this point correct has him for his correct I don't really I me I listen to the testimony I'm familiar with the flood Hazard regulations there's what I heard seems to be consistent with my understanding of the regulations and applications filed all wait to hear back from the black hole down un fortunately they have 90 days then they ask for 30 days yeah but they tell you on the Eve they're deeming you in complete now they tell you to withdraw so that starts the clock or withdraw correct you've got that right you know they're in all and and you know the regulations have gotten much difficult yeah since July of last year all right board members um anything from my anything for the witness public anything seeing none bringing it back I think he we have another witness okay yeah thank you sir thank you very much John binski is my architect um and speak to any questions that you may have regarding the actual layout of of the addition thank you thank you thank you yeah okay um sir we've qualified you immediate prior application so nothing has changed regarding your good standing with your license is that correct okay that's terrific and the scope of your engagement connection with this project this project I was hired well certainly that that would be helpful I think the threshold question that you want to be thinking about your client is the reconciliation of environmental constraints and the zoning consideration here uh with respect to the primary variance which is the F reconcile them if you can and if not tell us with respect to the F standing alone why you think it's can be accommodated existing Gage detach garage that demolish detach garage not the site as you see ised on that that side do another pulling the garage forward soach the garage that would be good way to get get it out of basically but the Bally Gage 24 by 24 this 22 by so it's it's good but it's not like oversized nice size um it is attached therefore we have to 600 ft building area that up you have a bonus space on the second floor including everything the entire bonus [Music] thear that's a big part like I said of Home Again The Challenge was they elevating it we have different levels here challeng elevation the twoot above elevation so we had a lot going on here just to get this work as it did the second FL uh the addition is basically just increasing the uh the house second FL by 7t from back the master bedroom existing B is quite small as you can see on the left side there second FL small so going increase that um mod size the bedroom will be and then basically that's Fe the garage and the bonus room and the Building B yeah I mean I think your the interior layout is very modest you know there's nothing extravagant about the sides of your kitchen or your living room or anything I think it's um just the GR gar and I think whether correct me whether it's detached or attached still floor area yeah um so I don't think that's relevant I thought um on your or on the engineers plan okay yeah what it was included which is 21.3 right but and then 25 is permitted 25 I WR on is that right okay it just in the documents I think I saw which just if you made it I'm thetically if you made it a one car garage would you even would you apply with the you know areed which would bring you at what compared to where you're proposer bye 35 took off 20 of thear we get a one it takes it down to 35 from 38 then if you took it down to a one car then you wouldn't you still do the bonus room because then that would kind of look it's not something i' calculated yet um it would be much smaller it would be POS yeah stre sir the house is relativ hear the word I'm sorry the garage exting back here up here basically the two-car garage is a modest Edition the back of the house not really visible to our neighbors un visible for the street the narrow lot undersized lot existing houses already pulled forward existing front yard setback putting on that's one story two stories my experience here before many boards I know little different Community but the two car garage is I do believe this property can accommodate B on the rotation that Reis you said that the uh developed property imediately to the left of the houses the driveway yes and Beyond and then beyond that it's and the neighbors located on the other side of the brook that's two-car garage although it's adding to the G building area and trib to floor area ratio located close to any develop nebor house it's on there's no devop basically open open space on that side it's the same that's that's kind of where I was ending up it's the same discuss that we just had an hour ago what else could be done bring it closer I mean Council as that and the last application you guys everybody heard what's going everybody heard this thing it's not like we're Reinventing the field here with you know coming after no no doubt about it and I think part the difference perhaps in our application um we did go through iterations and though you haven't seen those we had full 16th book death TW story Edition that we' reduced intentionally to the property itself uh or the addition itself really expanding half of the garage it's it's not it's we're not developing a two-part garage we're adding a half of a um and then the space above that would have to be something anyway there's no there's it's it we're not expanding beyond the scope of that we also did shrink a lar so though you didn't see that process because we didn't just put forth all our wishes and hopes this applicant hire professionals to help guide them and say in advance let's let's turn this down let's give ourselves a better chance understand your needs limitations of the property I think the concern that we have wanted to say yes if it creates precedent and essentially that precedent be that property that's why we're that's why we have the number this is what we're paid what we're pay to there's the theoretical precedent and then there's the practical precedent and I think the board member is making an observation uh for all applicants to consider while we know what the law tells us that no two properties are alike and those two applications therefore should be considered uh identical each has to rise and fall on their own merits the fact that the board member is pointing out that that there's a fine line between the theoretical and the Practical is is quite evident here and and and I think that's what might be on that board member's mind as well as others I don't speak to the board but that's the that's the conflict the conundrum that we've got to work through to see if this there some count already to support uh even as close as at Ward AV there the two car garage and add dish above it that was added to the house right in between um uh the Eerie bridge and the other uh with the road going up to the Firehouse that is smaller property than ours and is definitely on larger p and I'm sure if we research that closely we'll see that there's precedent support what we're doing and I'll look for others to do that as well I think they did a detach garage towards the back then we're talking about the same house I believe it's and I'm not trying to call anybody out but I believe that there are presidents that to help support our cause in addition to ones that may carry and I do appreciate that but I do think that this is a reasonable what is your plan of DP says no to your o well staring R um you know if it if it depends on what they mean by saying no I think that's really the answer because if they say no up until a certain point then we can scale things back if they say no you can't do anything then that's a whole other sort of where are you on the D time plot with your submissions a month in you're a month in okay so you've got a little time to go a couple of months but we did we did provide concept PL informally to them before we file that paraphrase like you said this is approvable I was trying to get now are these the same plans that you submitted to the or they variant or one of the other well they the pp only saw the footprint they don't care what happened on the Second Story right but since that discussion this this yeah previously the addition was full 6000 so we Cho that down took 9 off of that over the sounds like a ridiculous question but do they know you're here no they don't get involved exactly my point and so that's why I think questions are being asked about which should have come first the chicken of the egg you know I have to be honest with you first I'm confused I felt like I had had some confidence here there okay but of course any board can grant approvals with condition the assumption is the condition would be secure appropriate dbb but Pro of course that was our mindset and we we timed this such that once we knew were going to get here for this hearing be filed so that it could potentially I think my client's position is that there's not really much we can Whittle away from here property I understand the board members like us to see little away but understands because that's been typically how things have been hand as I testified to we kind of went through that process internally right is there uh any board members there a particular amount they would like a reduced f is there a potential for a straw that somebody could this I I don't think there'd be I I speak to the chair or any member of the board but typically we don't take scw up calls in the middle middle of a quasi judicial proceeding that's number one uh for obvious reasons magic word being judicial we're hearing evidence and we have to make findings and rulings on the evidence okay um so I don't know that there'd be that inclination by conceptive ends they can decide themselves whether they would or wouldn't um and on the point of where you started from that's all well and good but we didn't know where you started from with your initial and then subsequent plans we're seeing what we're seeing as a snapshot at present time and so you know you can start and ask for the moon but you know again it all comes back to reconciling what you're proposing un times I do advise my client ask for more so we have a concession you know that we could give something back for we don't need this big patio or we can scale back but here such a such a small under siiz L he had the needs for the addition and a two-car garage and there just wasn't much more to let's let's put for what we can do what we think we can get approved by the DDP and hopefully uh look favorable upon our efforts I think I understand your argument but again I don't know where that will take the board and its deliberations we we're just throwing some ideas out here in case we do not ask for a vote tonight and we do want to come with items like uh this you know showing where the Landscaping be um with perhaps professional planning testimony benef well look you know no no no please done 40 times every venue just about uh and I don't move anymore even with a porch Edition without a planner if I need a variance because you you place a very difficult burden on a board even with professional professionals who been to the rodeo and understand what groups are required and this is in the hierarchy of variances an extremely important variance because it's in the D category it's just uh you know it's right there with the use uh and height that exceeds the maximum height Etc you got a you got a de variance and I frankly always I'm surprised that one can go forward without a planner on such an important variance even though you guys are doing a very professional job at indicating what the factors are but it's the opinion that a planner renders you're put pointing out the physical issues that should be taken into account but I got to get to the next step and that is typically provided by a planner that says in my professional planning opinion I believe that the reasons are justifiable and there's no substantial detriment to the public good and no impairment of the master plan and Zoning Witnesses that's what they say that's what they must say to carry the day to the applicant that's the law can I have two minutes my Cent certainly thank e um we've heard the board's concerns um and we understand your position we are going to ask to carry this hearing another next available time turn what we're going to do we're going to revisit see if there's any other areas that we can possibly Us in addition we are going to applicant will hire professional planner to take a look at this from a regional perspective to provide proper professional testimony support about application to do assuming that's the find we have a little bit of time here we have probably two to three months on the level we heard I know your your your hearings are starting to fill up so hopefully I'd love January but it's probably be February we understand that in the two quick questions in the event um we do not modify the architectural plan significantly in terms of Aesthetics it's just footprint in that would you need the architect to reappear to provide testimony that's don't don't make us prejudge that I think that'd be uncomfortable for us because then I wouldn't want well you'll have to decide and you'll have given us the plans and our professional will tell us you know as he has as he has uh testimony is required regarding and that will tell you whether or not the architect has to come back that I think would be the most healthy tell you may not but there there's there's a there's a potential here where we don't make any changes and we just come to plus you also have two other board members that could be here that could review the video and could have questions and if he has a question for the gentlem exactly that's an excellent point yes so likely likely it's February because again I don't want I I also no but but you know the board typically I'll sit here all night care but I have to respect everything okay I have to respect everybody else okay so um and they are filling up there's some there's things that we have and of course you definitely heard the stuff we have to be relative to the town itself s was here okay so that's a big that's a big component of what we also have to get done Al give you more time with the as well so yeah there's a chance we might hear back here with fully improvs but we would just have to go back and modify if we're that close we have to make that decision whether draw and I have a quick question similar related to this if we chose to go on to the January one and got bumps I'm I'm trying to make it so that we could get onto the February one or do we have to just go to the February one first um and then reapply and do all these other we don't have to we don't have to we don't have to okay but in my opinion in my opinion I would recko that you go to February only because I I don't want to start because because you know what if you were to say to me hey I'm gonna bring you know I would say listen we gota we gotta push it out you know legally whatever has to go on we got push it out because it's not even if you have people in the audience we can't have them here I said I'll stay here until whatever but I I have to be respectful people and we generally try not to call people 1050 10:30 absolutely because it's just not fair and they have to come back anyway because they got answer questions for the for the special anation yeah inary but I also want to make sure that you understand it I'm not being rude or pushing you out it is what it is all right so so you agree to February 12th then February 12 you'll sign a form that the secretary is the administrator car I thank everybody for list very nice presentation yes yes issue difficult thank you I mean one thing I I'd like to just mention is I appreciate the fact that you have existing for plans different post yeah because it's very help that really helps that really helps nothing worse before we call well I'll Linda finish Lind yes much all you're welcome thank you all right before we call it um I don't want to take much more time thank you very thank you thank you again have anything nothing everything's Co okay all right any board members anything to discuss okay anybody from the public anything to discuss seeing none I bring it back um close just a motion to close no not yet you still have to announce December yes I knew she kept me on pump so I need to announce that there will be two December landu board meetings everybody the first one is on December 16th which we're still working through the uh the agenda but the second one as we already know and we all agree to is the senior housing finishing of the senior housing PO on December 18th if we can get that done if not it will continue but the 18th is specifically for senior house I'm sorry for the senior uh the health facility nursing okay all right Linda perfect thank you having said that everybody comes also yeah um see what happens like tonight what happened we're short two people and it possibly could cause an issue yeah but if you can't come just let me know as soon as possible because because I mean just backing that up I mean I know we discussed this at one of our last meetings but um you know I start trying to do roll call or figuring out who's going to be here a week before this way can start to make plans and you know I call Linda up to ask her who's who's in and who isn't life happens I know that these are volunteer positions everybody I realize that um I know that sometimes things occur okay and I am super sensitive to that but you know we need to we need to at least know so that we can plan accordingly okay and Linda's calling you know texting calling and and even you know marry me is asking if he was gonna be here so please if you guys if we could just know as far it okay um all right I'm done thank you everybody for being here a little late I apologize for coming so late I'm gonna stop can I have a motion to uh to conclude our meeting motion I'll second thank you all in favor I against seen none thank you very much final final to Everybody Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving I have to tell you how much I'm grateful for all of the support that you provide to the town to me and to members of the board thank you very much than