Good evening and welcome to the November meeting of the Amherst Municipal Affording Housing Trust Fund. Uh we have important items on our agenda today, but um like to welcome our our our membership here. U Greg, thank you
always for coordinating. Uh Alex Cox, Algra Clark, Rob Allham, Carla Rash, He Kim, and uh Paul Blackman of course. Um we actually want to uh start our meeting today and and give uh attention to a
significant uh thing going on in Amoris. As you all know, there has been uh a terrible fire that has displaced a lot of students and um we would like to uh say say a couple things about that. Um
uh m maybe uh Paul since you've been uh kind of in uh the the managing of this uh situation since the weekend um would you like to just share some some general comments? >> Uh sure. And people should weigh in on they probably have information I don't
have. So um I just have from one perspective. uh 236 beds um in that building that were the stu the people who lived there. 230 of them were students uh at the university mostly undergraduate um probably twothirds
three-fifths whatever um uh um were universities affiliates uh the others uh I think were other colleges or maybe building management um you know and and so they left the apartments
when when asked to because of the fire next door and they never got to go back in they lost everything so it's really tragic. Um their lives turned upside down and just really feel for the students who um you know who lost their homes and everything they had, you know.
Um and it's, you know, the stories are tragic, you know, passports, uh visas, uh musical instruments they've had since children, um you know, pets, um all kinds of things. So, but you know, the first the headline is no one was
injured, no one was hurt. uh for the residents or for any of our first responders. Um the fire department arrived as did uh multiple other fire departments. There were numerous numerous uh firefighters and
support on on scene very quickly. Um and um eventually the the fire got too far ahead and they had to demolish the building. So those units are off those 236 beds are gone. Um and the construction next door that was building
a similar size construction which had gone up to about five stories already was and that's off that's offline as well. So it's a pretty pretty significant impact on the town. In terms of the students I think they are you know the university stepped up had a lot of resources available to them in terms
of um resource center they had housing fairs yesterday and today uh invited landlords from all over the region to come in and offer see what they had to offer. Um the university had medical uh legal uh academic uh food shelter uh
resources available and emotional support services available to the students. So we're fortunate in a way that they were all students and the university was able to fill that that need. Um nobody knows the cause uh that's going to be under investigation. Those things
usually take months to do but the state fire marshall and state police are in charge of that investigation. Um, and it's, you know, it's still a it's a pile of rubble now. So, that's where we are.
>> Thanks, thanks for that update, Algra. >> Um, thank you, Paul, for that. And I again, I'm so grateful that nobody was injured, nobody died. That's really impressive given the magnitude of the fire. Um, and I also just want to put it in the context of
about two months prior there was a fire at Olympia Oaks, which is just down the same road. Um, so I know that there's been some stirring up of some of the feelings of seeing that fire two months ago um for
other community members. And you know, I just I'm very grateful that it didn't spread further than it did um and impact them even further because I know that three affordable units were lost in that fire as well. Um but I did see and just
want to share as a resource that um I believe both the Boulders and Meadow View Apartments in on East Hadley Road are waving fees and security deposits for anyone who's impacted by the fire. I don't know how many units they might have. available at this point, but that
is a resource um that might be available for some students. And I did see the other day I'd also seen I believe Aspen Heights was offering a similar deal, but I don't know if they had if their unit was filled um because I think they only had one unit available that they were
able to offer. Um but again um Ammerst Innovative Living who was the property management has been doing um hard work trying to get people placed from my understanding and also has been in communication with the students about returning security deposits and the
month's rent um so that there will be >> that financial resource available for them. Um as we know there's limited housing available as is. Um, so it's it's important that we can do what we can as a community to
help rehhouse these students. Um, so and I I hope that if there's any sort of concern around, you know, not saying that this would happen, but sometimes it does after a tragedy like this, if there's any sort of like price gouging that's going on, that there would be a way to report
that. And I don't know if there's a mechanism for that, but that's just something I wanted to bring to attention. I mean, it sounds from what I've seen so far that the community is really rallying and that that hasn't been reported as of yet, but it is something that I think, you know, I hope
the town would have some sort of mechanism for reporting. >> Yeah, we certainly should be alert to that. That's a really good point. Yeah. >> Thank you. And um you know, as you all know, one of our members is uh at um Alex, I wonder what you can share from
where you sit. >> Yeah. So, thank you, Mr. Buckleman and Algra for those updates. Um, I know the university has a lot of resources which you all both reference that they're mobilizing for this, notably the student
care and emergency fund, um, which is an existing fund that students can apply to to receive grants, um, to cover hardship, but they have waved part of their normal processes so that any donations collected now are automatically directed to um, people who
are seeking housing because of this fire. So there have also been collections of material goods, used clothing and food on campus as well. And I know that that there's been partnership with the survival center to facilitate some of that as well. >> Excellent. Well, um these tragedies
bring out the the best in a community and um and uh I'm trying to see if we can put up some uh students here as next door to me as well. Um all right. Well, let's let's get into our our posted agenda. We have uh a happy uh first item
on on our agenda, which is uh picking back up a conversation we've had with the Interfaith Faith Housing of Amherst, which uh wound up its operations and very generously decided to bequest us uh their funds.
But let me go ahead and and introduce uh Robert uh to tell us a little more and and kind of report the the great news uh formally. >> Great. So, my name is Robert Ryan. I'm the chair of the interfaith um housing of Ammerst, Inc. It's been around for
quite a long time. They started when Village Park um was developed and used the proceeds for that to continue to um promote affordable housing in Ammerst. We've donated to lots of different projects including Olympia Oaks to the
Northampton Road project that's over by Ammerst College um and other projects in town. Um so we sort of spending decided as a group to spend down our funds rather than to continue to do fundraising etc. So, um,
we voted to, uh, give our balance to Amoris, you know, municipal housing trust to you all, um, after, of course, paying our closing fees. We had to close the nonprofit down. That's what we're doing. Um, so our last act or last two
acts is to, uh, give you all a check for $36,000. Um and then for you to to receive that check, sign affidavit that you got the money and then interfaith will um our lawyer will submit paperwork to the state to finalize the closure of
interfaith. And so you know you it's up to you to how you decide to spend that money. Of course your charge is affordable housing ammer so we know you'll do a good job with it as well. and we've got a board. Um, and so, um, I
didn't list them all in the chat or anything, but I can, uh, send you when I s, um, deliver the check, um, I'll have list the board members who are members of it. Jim Lley is our treasurer, so he's the one who, who writes the checks for the organization. Um, Sarah Marshall's on our board, who you might
know. Rebecca uh, Rebecca uh, Pra is on the board. Um, and some others. Well, thank you very much, Robert. It's um we're we're grateful for the funds. We will uh invest them wisely and um
because of the fact that they're not Community Preservation Act funds, we do have a little more flexibility. So, let's see if we can bring a greater multiplier of impact with that flexibility. Um, so thank you so much and we'll connect um in front of the the
the town uh uh shortly to do a photo op with you. >> That'd be great. Yeah, I want to schedule a time to meet with you and Paul or whoever to deliver the check and uh and get this moving so you have the funds and we can close up.
>> Excellent. Well, thank you for joining us uh Robert and and uh again for thinking of us and following through. >> Great. Thanks. >> All right. Thanks, Robert. And please be in touch. >> Okay. I will. Right. Good to see you all. Thanks. >> Good night.
>> Good night. >> All right. Well, so we're now ready to move into the main agenda item this evening, which is to have a presentation from the Amherst Community Land Trust. We have uh met with the the Trust Land Trust several times already. uh but
their project is uh ramping up and taking shape. They have a proposal before the community preservation act committee as does the trust. Uh we'll both be answering questions in the same evening in a couple of weeks and uh
we're I'm speaking for myself. I'm enthusiastic about the project. As you all know, we received money in lie of three affordable units in town and the prospect of uh affordable home ownership in the center of downtown is a very
exciting prospect and uh we would like to know more about the project and this is really an opportunity for all of the membership to uh get your head around it. want to make sure that everyone here understands what the land trust is
proposing and I would like you to ask the questions that are on your mind. So this is an opportunity for us to get up to speed and get this project squarely in our brains. Uh so with that uh reintroduce Linda Slakey who is the um
is it chair or president? What's your title Linda? >> I'm president of the board. president of the board and um you know chief volunteer putting in her time to uh see how this project can be assembled um
with the resources that it's going to take which are not inconsiderable. So um I'll give you the floor. Have we decided to uh have you present your slides or us? What what's the best idea, Greg? >> Um I'm happy to present. Um uh I think that was Linda's preference. Um, and
just one more question, Linda. Logistically, shall I promote anybody else to a panelist role right now? Uh, or I I I see a couple of your colleagues, Jim and and Mora, um, in the audience. Um, anybody else on the docket tonight? >> I'm I'm not sure how many will finally
show up. I told them that we weren't right first on the agenda, and they probably had until 17 7:15 to appear. Uh but Gaston, when we spoke earlier this afternoon, you encouraged me to uh allow
questions as we went along. Um that um that argues in favor of letting the other ACLT, especially Jim, uh have panelist st status. They're good on some of the particular questions that might >> So I have Jim and Mora are here. So I'll
I'll promote both of them right now and >> Okay. And you all can >> and and so what did we decide about the slides? >> And I'm happy to do the slides. >> Okay. All right. So Greg will uh share the slides. Linda just uh tell us when to advance. >> Okay.
>> Welcome. Uh Jim, thank you for being here. Mora, uh pleased to have you joining us and helping us out here. So, um, one of my reasons for thinking that it would be better to have Greg show the slides than to share screen
myself, um, is that that lets me, um, be able to see all the other participants. And, uh, I really would encourage you as we go along to, uh, raise your hand and, and we'll try to keep up with questions
as we go. Um I'm I'm not sure how much total time you're imagining here, Gaston. If the question should happen to lead to a particularly robust discussion um sort of call time on us in time we do get to showing the financial aspects at the end.
>> I I I I I expect we're going to be with you at uh you know at least till 8:00 p.m. So um you know we have we're going to give this project ample time. it is um a significant opportunity and and you're you're asking for very
significant uh funds from the trust. So we really need to understand it. This is a situation where our legitimacy as uh people charged with taking care of these funds and advancing the mission is uh at its sharpest. So we we we got to
understand this and and so give it the time it takes. Okay. So, um I'm going to begin at the very beginning here. So, forgive me if you're very familiar with this, but I know that the current membership of the
trust, some of you are new to it, and uh this isn't necessarily something you're thinking about all the time. So just so it's in people's minds as we go along, let me just remind you the fundamental model that's going to apply to all the things I say about this development,
which is our our basic model is that we raise funds in the interest of owning land. And that means that when lower moderate income homeowners are looking to buy a home, they literally only have to pay for the cost of the home. Uh our
relationship with our homeowners is governed by a ground lease uh that we both sign. The lease is for 99 years which is in effect perpetual agreement. Um and there are two primary conditions
of the lease as long as well as a lot of detail that you don't need to think about. The they agreed to occupy the home. So if their plans change at a future time and and they want to live elsewhere or need to live elsewhere,
they can't run this property as a rental from afar. They have to sell it back to the trust and we sell it on then to another family. And the other key agreement is that at the time of resale the value have uh can have grown only as
rapidly as incomes grow not with whatever market forces are driving up the costs of housing. So basically once a house belongs to us it's affordable at the level that it's affordable the day we settle with the first buyer u for uh
in perpetuity. Um, so you can go on to the next slide there, Greg. So, um, an easy reminder here of the particular property we're talking about tonight. It's 174 Amity Street. If you've ever had occasion to
walk down Amity Street from the cinema on that side, you've probably seen this house. Uh, part of its history is that it it has been rented over many years now, uh, typically to groups of artists
and musicians. And at one point in which there was an artist there that specialized in big outdoor wooden sculptures, the house itself collected quite a set of those sculptures. And that artist has agreed to allow that big
bird sculpture that's a hallmark of the the end that faces the street uh to stay with the project going forward. Um and then it's not so obvious from the street but the pro the property is quite
extensive. The existing building goes back. So that's uh the other frame is a picture taken from the back corner of the property to give you a sense of the whole envelope of the existing building. And then the next slide I think shows
sort of what ACLT's vision is for 174 AMD Street. And again, we've talked about this in previous visits, but just again so everybody has it at the top of their mind, this is going to produce a cluster development right in the middle
of the town. Um, it the existing building is a historic family residence. Um, and when the project is finished, because there's sufficient lands to add an additional structure, even with a
little wet land in the corner, um, it will yield a cluster of five low to moderate income families. Um, everybody still with me? I'm about to move on to some newer material here you might not have heard before. Okay.
Okay. Um so since the last time we spoke um Bruce has done uh conceptual interior designs by conceptual I mean not only that it suggests a concept but this is the plan based on which we've
done a much more detailed costing than we were able to do before. Um the numbers that I talked about in earlier or or put into various proposals earlier were based on a square footage estimate of what it costs to upgrade a building
of this age. Now we really have cost estimates which say okay so many new doors, so many new windows etc. Uh so the level of detail that's available is greatly uh more precise now that we have
the uh interior concept. And just to walk you through this concept, the arrows uh that have there's some unreadable text at the top that you don't need to worry about. What it does is explain that those arrows point to two locations which because of the way
the vertical studs run in the house and because the house is old enough that those studs were much bigger lumber than would be now that creates two places where it's easy to put a a code compliant fireresistant wall. So those
will be the primary uh divisions that make it legitimate to offer these as separate units for homeownership rather than running it as an apartment setting. Um and they change a little bit kind of the way the interior space is used uh
compared to the way it's used before. So the the largest rectangle there is the original house and then the two pieces that were added later have a smaller footprint on the ground. So the
the what's currently the main front door will now lead to unit one and um the uh the second uh porch entry will lead to unit two and unit three will have a new
exterior front door built. Um the other thing to just notice across the board is that there that all the units are laid out. So there's a half bath on the first floor, a fairly large common room, and one of the efforts that went into this
design is that two rather grand rooms in the original old house are now respectively the the common area or living room, living dining in some cases um of unit one and unit two. Those are
quite beautiful rooms. They each have um u pressed tin ceilings that look like they were just put up last week. And they're really some nice architectural details. So some of the interior design or much of the interior design was an
effort to balance as much retention of the graciousness of the existing structure as we could and still make efficient use of the total square footage. Uh so that led to sort of design concept in which every unit has a big living room in some cases which
doubles for dining area depending on how much space that left for a kitchen and and then a full kitchen, a washer and dryer in the unit and a half bath on the first floor and then a stairwell to the second floor. So the second floor
layouts are on the next slide. >> Okay, next slide. And and I want to remind uh the membership, do not be shy. If you have questions about what we're talking about, please ask them now so that we can be right on topic. >> Yeah, if I asked for this for Greg to
show the slides specifically so I could continue to see everybody. So I'll see if you put your hand up, especially if you put up the yellow zoom hand which will catch my attention. So the uh the first and second unit again to sort of
um maximize uh keeping the original room layout um as much as possible have a somewhat unconventional way of providing for um for individual bedrooms. So, in th those
big rooms on the second floor, there's a a floor to ceiling room divider at the back um that allows for u private sleeping spaces, but there's a common area shared with the two people who sleep in those spaces. The
presupposition being those would be uh children or young people's rooms, at least initially. If a family chose to, they could eventually close them off individually. Um, but that's the the plan that that we're thinking is the the
best way, as I say, to regain retain the graceful features of the house going forward. And then there's a principal bedroom on each of those uh in each of those units as well. And then the third unit um is a little bit different.
Again, a principal bedroom and then two smaller ones that are fully enclosed. DJ, did you have a question? >> I did. Thanks. Uh just on that note about um potentially closing off rooms and and kind of following up on the other thought, just just wanted to clarify, do the owners of the homes, do
do they have the rights to modify the home in in the way they see it? Uh and would that affect any sort of future resell if like the house goes back to um being sold and and things like that? Is is there oversight that that the ACLT is
intending to apply here? Basically, >> that's a good question. Um the in every case that we have now are single family homes and the the ground lease reads that uh they need our permission to add
any permanent structures to the land. I mean it's based on the fact that that we retain ownership of the land. So they'd need our permission to build a garage or put in an ingground pool or something like that. even to build a fence if it has cement fence post, you know, if it's
a permanent structure on the land. We haven't uh restricted what happens on the inside. Um but I see Jim's hand up, which is typically a signal that he's wants to share something about how we interact around the interior of the
house that he knows better than I do. Jim, do you want to respond to how we would deal with changes on the inside? Yeah, I I just wanted to I I think you I I wasn't going to say anything different from what you were saying. I just wanted to acknowledge that I'm available. So
the because there were two pieces to the question, the homeowners have freedom to uh decorate or modify the inside. Uh but to the price question, they would have to get permission to have those
modifications uh make any kind of change in the resale right. And in fact here where we're we would be working with uh public funding and and it would be part it would have to be something that was allowable under
the the state uh the housing and living livable communities rules for uh under their deed restrictions. So it would be pretty limited any ability to to impact the price but they could could make decorations and so on. And as Linda
says, any changes to the exterior of the building or or additional uh buildings, any changes in size are all pro um all require uh permission as well. >> Bob, did you have a question as well?
>> I think I figured it out. I was just wondering where the stairs were for unit two and unit three, but I think I can kind of figure it out from where it is. >> Right. They were drawn in explicitly in unit one. I noticed the same thing myself. I wondered if that question would come up. There's two what look
like empty spaces in those other units. The stairwell and this stairwell. Uh that funny little quirky space outside the two smaller bedrooms in unit three. >> Yeah. >> So we're ready to here.
Um so um since the last time we spoke u we've been moving along uh what at a fair pace given the inherent delays that sometimes develop in this kind of work on the pre-development phase uh we've
done wetlands assessment we've had a formal survey I showed you the concept designs for units one to three and that in turn allowed a much more precise estimate of construction construction costs for units 1 to three. Um, in
several previous conversations, I've talked about us negotiating with Habitat uh to be the construction partner for the new units that's now moved on to a signed. Um, and Megan Mcdana of Habitat has been
a member of the working group um not from the very beginning but for several months now. Um, and we've uh just recently hired a civil and environmental engineer who's uh taking the site plan
uh again u more formal direction toward approvals. Um he's doing the planning for storm water management, various technical issues that we'll need to have in place uh before we go forward with
for approval of the site fan site plan. And uh the there's a list of things that are in process at the moment. They're on the next slide. So we've approached the conservation commission informally somewhat the same
way we've had conversations with you. We asked for conversations in which we could discuss the concept and get their advice. Um in uh the with the conservation commission um they've encouraged us to uh come forward with
the site plan that I've been showing on these slides. Uh, and if you look at the sort of dotted line that u circles around the wetland, the the odd little shape at the bottom right corner
there is an identified wetland and those are its boundaries and the um the 50-foot boundary is clearly shown and then the 100 foot boundary is sketched in there. uh it's of course encroached
on by the existing structure which that is acceptable. The specific question was could we allow the duplex to encroach on the 100 foot boundary. That's a key question. It would have to move very
close to the street to clear the 100 foot boundary. We were encouraged to bring this design forward. They made very clear that they were very unlikely to accept encroachment on the 50-foot boundary, but that they would entertain a proposal that encroached on the 100
foot boundary uh and uh with the warning that they might ask for some level of mitigation. That kind of mitigation typically takes the form of plantings and and various things. Um, so that's the basis of our uh conversation with
the conservation commission. Um, Bucky Sparkle, who is the environmental civil and environmental engineer that we're working with, um, says he's close to being able to actually ask for a session in which we put this plan forward to the
conservation commission for formal approval. The phase one environmental assessment is going on in parallel and um the applica application to the zoning board of appeals which is required for
the two to three unit conversion and to the planning board for adding the duplex to the site. Um we're close to being ready to mount those formally. They also have had a couple of rounds of informal
conversation uh with Nate Mallaloy and we've been um going back and forth with multiple versions of the site design and uh we seem to have um honed in on one that he
was comfortable encouraging us to take a particular route with. and we had a nice um windfall as the subject of careful research and yet another citizen of Ammerst coming forward to help us on a
volunteer basis. Um it turns out there's a recent precedent for exactly what we're going to ask the planning board for u right in this neighborhood on North Prospect Street. Uh there's a property that I think four
or five years ago had an existing duplex and wanted to build a three-unit townhouse and the the lot behind and that was approved and uh it it was so exactly a comparable situation to this
one that that gave us a lot of confidence that this was probably going to be uh something that the both the zoning board of appeals and the planning board would be happy with. Of course, it's an added plus for our project that
all the units will be affordable. And also, it's a plus um from our point of view that this is on Amity Street, not on one of the more purely residential streets. So, there won't be arguments about increased density adding to the
traffic, for example. Be hard to add to the traffic on Emity Street by adding a couple more families. Um Exactly. >> Any questions at this stage? I see you nodding, Alex. I know this is your field of study, so you
probably would have asked some of these questions if I hadn't said we were already. Maybe you'll still have more to ask us about. Greg, >> yes. I'm just curious who's doing the phase one. >> Who is doing the phase one? Um,
I don't remember. Um Deborah Gross is managing the phase one. The the the property still belongs to the gross family. >> Oh steps that that Deborah has to order the work basically. >> Got it.
>> And and I don't remember what firm she's going with. She that is in process but I don't remember the firm she hired. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um I think we're ready for the next slide.
So now um switching gears here to what is this all going to cost? So maybe if if there uh other questions you have in mind about the project itself before I launch into the money you might want to ask them. But I'm also we're also happy
to take up conversation about the project itself later. Alex. >> Yeah. Thank you. This is a question about the terms of the ground lease. Um, I noticed in the materials you provided in our packet and thank you for those.
You mentioned that one of the existing tenants with another ACLT property um has housemates and I also understand you have this owner occupancy requirement. So, if the owner has extra bedrooms that
they're looking to fill and pursue like a co-housing arrangement with somebody, is that something that you all are open to? and do you have precedent for essentially setting rents or shares of a mortgage in that case? >> Yeah, but the underlying principle and
we spent a lot of time with this when we first formed is that um an ACLT homeowner should have should be able to presume that they have all the rights and privileges that any homeowner would have. So if they have a spare bedroom,
they can have a student as a housemate or whatever might be the arrangement. So we don't attempt to police that. Right now we're small enough that we tend to know what's going on in most of our families because we cultivate a sense of community. Um the particular case that
we mention um the homeowner is a widowerower. He has lived alone in that home for several years and he's also very community-minded. And by that I mean uh he's very explicit about the
fact that he's part of ACLT because it exists to promote community and he does that in a number of ways in his own life. Um and that includes since since he doesn't need all the space and he likes the land he's on and doesn't feel
inclined to move it. It was a very natural step in his life to invite housemates. Yeah. >> But but then I I guess I'm still curious about the question. Do you scrutinize the rents that are charged housemates
because those could be at full market, right? You could rent the bedroom for $1,500. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh I happen to know that that uh the rents in the particular house I was just discussing are well below market but um that question has
been a matter of debate in ACLT from the very beginning and there hasn't been a case that was so obvious that it would prompt us to sort of force the issue and come to a decision. the the two points
of view that tend to prevail when we iteratively over the years have several times brought it up for discussion. One is that we probably ought to constrain people to make the rents affordable since they're in the house on an affordable basis. The alternate point of
view is this is their house and they're lowincome people and if ripoff landlords are charging high rates, we should prevent them from improving their circumstances. And besides, how would we police it if we made it a requirement?
How are we going to check that? Are we going to be that involved in people's lives? So issues that are that thorny in the history of ACLT tend to maintain a a status of being
subject to discussion until the day comes when some case forces us to have a policy and that day hasn't come for restraining the rents. Jim, do you want to expand on that thought? >> Yeah, I I do I do want to expand a little bit. So it absolutely everything
that Linda said is you know reflects the complexity of the issue and the the way the organization has dealt with it. I will say that so we did actually have a discussion there. There's two different distinctions though. When we've had that
discussion, it's been both about the possibility of someone having a separate rental unit and versus also the the situation that you were describing, which is just an extra room. And currently, the leases do allow
the homeowner to have other people in the home, and they're silent. So, in other words, the the homeowner is free to charge the rents that they um have, and it, as Linda says, it's a it's something that we've agreed to continue to to
go back to, but currently someone could uh come in, bring someone in, and they they negotiate. We don't get involved in the negotiations around what price they charge. And part of the theory, part of the reason there's a distinction between
those two is the theory is when you're living when you make the choice to live with people in shared space and shared rooms, it really is more of a we see it more as that's your chosen your chosen people, your chosen family, however you
want to talk about it. And at that point getting involved with why you know why you chose you know that's a personal relationship that that we prefer not to get involved in. If it's a purely commercial relationship where you have a separate rental unit I think that ACLT
is more likely to come back and revisit it and and think about whether or not you're going to have uh we would put limits on it. That's my uh understanding of where we are and that certainly is the we only have we don't have any units that have a second unit to rent out and
currently that's what that's what's allowed for for the homeowners. >> Thank you. Lindon Jim Alex, do you have any follow-ups on on that? >> No. >> Okay. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Excellent. Algra. Um so my question is
more around um possible owner selection >> and just thinking about the fact that there is already a home ownership affordable home ownership development under construction in Ammerst that does have a pretty I think strenuous
screening and you know building process going on in terms of credit counseling making sure people can get preapproved for mortgages and all of that and I just was wondering since it seems that if this project comes to fruition, it will happen a little bit after Ammerst
Community Homes anticipates getting um people into their units. Um if there would be any chance that there would be some homeowner potential um families from that lottery left over that you could then tap into. Is that
something that you and Valley have been in communication about? We haven't had any formal communication about it. It certainly has crossed my mind to hope that it would simplify our search for homeowners that there would be a pool that was already very aware of
of the whole review process and and unfortunately disappointed in making the lottery for the the North Ammerst homes. So, um, it it it hasn't risen to the top of the to-do list
list yet to have an active conversation about that. I before I did that, um, we will be following um, housing and livable communities rules about the lottery. So the first thing would be to talk to them about are
there any conditions in which there'd be a preferred pool by by virtue of having recently applied. Um and um I I don't know, you know, we we'll have to schedule those
conversations as we get closer to homeowner >> selection. >> And just can I follow up? Um is there because I know there was a lot of conversation around local preference um with that lottery. Is is the
community land trust model. Is there any sort of preference or or history of having local either people who are already living in Ammerst or people who are affiliated with the schools whether it's their kids or
>> working at the schools you know the universities or >> it's certainly part of our philosophy that we intend to be housing the Ammerst workforce the tricky thing about actually framing that is that a lot of the Ammeris workforce doesn't live in
Ammerst. That's part of the pro that's the population we'd like to serve. We'd like to make it possible to live in Ammerst if you work in Ammerst. And um so so far we've marketed
obviously according to housing and livable communities rules, but but also with a lot of personal outreach to places where we thought there might be. Uh, for example, at one stage we invited um the the better the what's it called?
It's not the better business bureau. The the Ammeris downtown business folks um to just make their membership aware that we were going to make houses available that would be kind of within the means of their workforce. Um I don't
know whether that actually led to any particular applicants or not. It's tricky trying to have a preference. Um, we we've so far just resorted to personal outreach during the marketing
phase to try to make populations aware of the possibility. >> Thank you, >> Greg. I'm not keeping track of whose hands went up and what order. Are you keeping track or or guess it for us? He
did. didn't realize that Zoom does that for us. That's awesome. Uh, Linda, this might be a it might be slightly beyond this project specifically. Maybe it's more about the ACLT in general. So, uh, I assume this is going to be a model that's going to apply for not just this
project, but other similar projects. >> And long term, it's basically a a model that requires ACLT support to maintain the the land and and then have oversight over the land and and stuff like that. I don't recall if there was any sort of uh
presentation on the ACLT models for how they intend to fund the overall long-term support of these properties. Is that something you can get into? >> Um Jim, what do we say about that in the ground lease?
Yeah, I I guess the question I would have is is what what there there's a need for a a minimal um there's a minimal cost of maintaining the organization to maintain the the stewardship responsibilities, but it's largely currently we're largely doing it
with um uh volunteer help as the organization grows. We we have the ground lease fees is the one is one form of pay paid for uh by the the homeowners pay ground lease fees to us. Uh in
general the the model is designed so that once we put our subsidies in the home the the the resale remains affordable. Um there so so the costs are are relatively minimal but there is
going to be there is some I there isn't cost for the homeowners maintain their properties for the most part I mean there there's always slippage in these things right but but in general the homeowners are maintaining their homes there's room at resale to to pass the
subsidy on to the next homeowner uh the presumption of ACLT as a nonprofit is we'll always be doing some fundraising, but we won't be having to come back. But but again, it's fundraising for um special things like we we've talked
about developing uh uh a reserve that that could function as as a loan fund or perhaps even matching grants for for uh rehab for to incentivize rehab. So, so there are things that as we grow and
become more robust as a nonprofit, we can supplement what we're doing. But the model is really designed so that the homeowner, we make the home affordable for the homeowners so that then they can get in it and they can actually repair
it and manage the home itself. Um, uh, just like any other home owner and and then that subsidy we've already got in there, we just keep it. So it's our job is to maintain the organization so that we can oversee that. But I will mention
that all our homes also have um uh deed restrictions held by either either the housing and livable communities or or uh the town so that there's backup in in that worst case scenario that we don't expect will happen of ACLT disappearing.
>> Thank you. And I would add to that that one of the standing committees of ACLT is the homeowner support group. Um, for example, one of our homeowners uh wants to add a second bathroom and uh they are eligible for a particular
state funded um lowcost loan program to do that. Uh and the application was ownorous and the family had some difficulties, illnesses and slowed them down. And um one of the members of the
homeowner support group has been literally sitting with the family member that's responsible for trying to pull this together. Just being present saying, you know, this form, do this here, it'll be okay. you know, um we we
take a pretty hands-on approach to supporting any homeowner that asks for it. Others of our homeowners u just we say, "How are things going?" They say, "Fine. We aren't intrusive." That you know, things could be going badly and we
wouldn't know it. But if people ask for help, uh we step up in very positive ways. Um, whose turn is it? Gastone. I think it might be. >> Yes. Uh, no. I mean, we can follow uh
from the top left, Alex. >> Yeah. Thank you. Um, Linda, I apologize if this is asking you to repeat something you said at an earlier meeting because I vaguely remember you touching on this, but I know that Habitat has
fairly high standards for energy efficiency in their projects, >> but that you all are working in an existing structure with the conversion. Can you speak a little bit to the utilities? Is it all electric? Is it on gas right now? And is there any plan to change that as part of this project?
Yeah, the the main house has fuel oil u um heat fuel oil based heating. Um the the overall I wish Seth was here. I'm going to buck that question to Seth
and get back to you. But I will say what he has said uh in conversations about um the particular plans that he suggests for upgrading the house. He said, um, this isn't going to get to the R value
that a Habitat house has, but it's going to end up much better than it is now. I know one specific thing he plans to do because Wright Builders has already done it in one of our other houses. Houses in this neighborhood all without exception
have problems with water in the basement. the water table is very high and depending on how well they've managed diverting water from the gutters well away from the edge of the house, there are all kinds of things that can make trouble. Um, so the the I'm told
this the best practice now for dealing with that kind of situation is they go into the basement and they put a shell all around the outside wall and that shell has the property that the moisture can drip down into a drain channel and
be let out of the sump pump and um then they blow insulation against the interior surface of it. So the uh was news to me actually when this was first done in one of our houses and Seth Bllye said that 30% of the heat loss from the
typical house is out through the basement walls and this will put a stop to that. So things that can be done that don't require literally replacing the roof um that will be done. insulation will be blown into the walls and the basement
which is badly leaky now uh will be corrected and and well insulated. Um so um I'm happy to ask Seth to give more detail on that question which you clearly have the expertise to understand. That's kind of the level at which I
understand it at this point. >> Yes. My what Alex's question leads me to is are you planning on heat pumps mini splits so that there's cooling? I mean you can't >> um we kind of can't live without cooling anymore, >> right?
>> Um you know I'd love to say yes to that. It actually the that specific point hasn't come up in the conversations. It's a good point. I will make sure it does come up in subsequent conversations. Okay, Alex,
>> that if I may, as you're working through this, as you're moving towards your next drawing set and as you're moving towards construction drawings, I would be curious to know if there's a way to add like an add alternate for the project that includes replacing or upgrading
existing heat sources to be electric. thinking about future renewable energy projects in town coming online as another tool to encourage and promote affordability over time with what's likely to be a more efficient, affordable way to promote the house or
to heat the house. >> Um, you're welcome to come to a working group meeting and raise that question. That would be wonderful. The working group meets every other Wednesday. um that this we did not meet this week.
Uh so that uh we we're meeting well we're actually doing slightly different timing in November and December than our regular rotation to a um schedule around the holidays. The next meeting really will be the Wednesday
before Thanksgiving. Um, and then we skip a couple of weeks so that we get on a rotation in December that doesn't brought us into Christmas. >> Thank you. We'll send >> I will send back and you would be welcome to come and chat with us about I
better write that one down. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> Great. >> Um, thanks Gone. Um and and I want to speak backwards to a couple comments uh with just some intel and then the
follow-up question to one of he's. So um probably there's not a way to merge the lotteryies. Um this this project would need to have its own marketing and lottery plan um uh separate from Ammeris Community Homes. However, uh Valley is already and has been for a
while working to coach qualified buyers. um some of whom will be above income for this project. Some of whom will be closer to it. So there may well be a pool uh of of already coached and qualified folks who won't be able to succeed in getting one of the Ammeris
community homes but could end up flowing into this lottery and and and have have been done some doing some prep for quite some time. Uh you know, you know, slightly different income level, but there's probably going to be a few folks that end up in that bucket. um local
preference ultimately EOHLC will have to approve uh uh that this has this is not uh a 40B comprehensive permit approach. So they might treat local preference differently than they do with us. Um hard to know. Um um but then um uh you
know to a question you know to the sort of the financial model and he was getting at this a bit and I I guess um and I may have missed I was think I was looking at detail on the slide but um you know for resale purposes down the line right you know and I think a lot of these questions you know to me like the
rental question um is that what happens when someone moves in with their kids and then their kids leave and then they want a roommate you know like that's that could be a decade away you know um but it's good to be think about those things. Now, in a similar vein, um taken from some experience of of late, I'm
curious about um just ongoing capital investments and to the degree to which you're able to project forward, you know, somebody needs, let's say we put in many splits, right? Those last 15 years, maybe maybe 20 if we're lucky, right? You know, um uh someone's got to replace that down the line or a new oil
burner, what have you. Um you know, a new roof at some point probably, right? um you know has ACLT been able to sort of project a rough cost on those in parallel to I mean not not to you can never do it in a detailed way but
looking at the sort of um an idea of what equity growth might look like on one side and what capital outlays might look like on another and to confirm that homeowners are sort of keeping up as far as their their overall equity
Does that make sense as a question? >> Yeah, it's a good question. Um, I'd be happy to have your input on it, Jim. I I I'll give you a minute to think of and >> we we
>> Yeah, I'll I'll say briefly, we we haven't modeled it. And part of the reason is I mean that that question about equity um you know we we have a lot of variability between our homes and and um
so you know working the Habitat homes are a completely different experience the the new build homes that are deliberately kept quite quite simple for for replacements. So honestly that that's a good question. I I would go back to Linda's earlier comment about
our uh that's an area where we're still developing and our our capacities and that's what our one of the areas that the homeowner support group has been looking at. Not so much that analysis but but the support what what support is
needed uh that would be more informed if we had if we were to do do the the kind of analysis that you're describing which which I think is something that as we grow we're going to need to do but the
generally the the broader what we know is less about is less from research or any analysis we've done and more based on the CLT model as it's been practiced uh nationwide
and in general it has proven effective for for home homeowners are consistently able to maintain their homes. Uh you there's lots of research that's been done showing um the effectiveness of CLT
home ownership to build wealth. The the relative success of CLT homes versus open market homes during crises like the in 2008 or um and so on. So, so,
so all so as a as a small relatively young organization, we haven't done that ourselves and we're relying a lot on sort of the the expertise that comes from the networks we're part of. But, but uh again looking to that um building
out more more knowledge and more skills in that area. Greg, I want to echo one of the points that Jim raised briefly. Um, because part of our mission is the maintenance of existing housing stock and the
vibrance of existing neighborhoods. Um, the only brand new homes in our inventory or two habitat houses that we built in North Ammerst as our very first project and the rest are very much luck
of the draw. So although everybody that has bought a home in partnership with us is happy with it, in fact the the condition of those homes and their age and the extent to which the routine maintenance has been kept up has been
quite different and we've dealt with them one at a time according to the resources we've had and the needs of those houses at the time people took them on with quite major attention in some cases and relatively minor in other
cases. >> And that gets to another Thank you, Linda. A sort of related question. I just want to understand the sort of, you know, I'm trying to think ahead here because I'm currently and frankly engaged in some resales of other non ACCLT properties, but you know, uh um
I'm hoping that your organization might solve for you know a more refined model. Um you know, which is the um the resale process. Is it your expectation that as when when you start getting resources that the the plan is for ACLT to
repurchase and then resale or is the idea that it goes right to a new a new buyer ideally? >> Yeah. Well, it's worth just pointing out that in every transaction there's a few minutes where ACLT owns the whole thing
and that that is the the purchase is is in stages. The seller sells the whole property to us and the lawyer sitting around the table. It isn't usually typically the real people anymore. It's the lawyers. But um immediately the home
buyer buys the home, but they buy it from us, not from the seller. We buy the whole property from the seller and then the home buyer b buys the home from us. So um legally there's always a moment in which we own the whole thing. The a more
practical question if one of our homeowners is prepared to sell is how to do that sale in such a way that we don't give away 6% of the value to a real estate agent. that is we we want to be alert to be able to recruit a this
hasn't happened yet but we're really trying to build a sense of awareness and the public such that uh we would have easy access to a pool of suitable buyers should one of our homeowners wish to sell without having to go through a real
estate agent. >> Jim got it. But so you wouldn't need to be liquid though for those five minutes where you own the house. >> Is that Is that >> That's correct. That's correct. >> Okay. Okay. All right. >> And I was just going to add to what
Linda said that um we we the the ground lease gives us some flexibility where we can step in and exercise an option to purchase if if necessary and and then we would need, you know, some liquidity to be able to do that. Uh but but I the
most likely practice would be to the ideal practice is to work with the homeowner, do the marketing if we can as Linda says of you know do it um with waiting lists we already have or things like that but either way we market with in in partnership with the homeowner and
then we can just do that um simultane well it's um actually in this case they they wouldn't necess we wouldn't necessarily have to take ownership for the home because we already own the land. The homeowner could sell the home directly to the next homeowner. >> Yeah,
Bob, you've been waiting patiently for a while with your hand up. >> No, that's all right. Uh, this segus uh a bit from what HJ was saying earlier and some of comments as well. Um, HJ was mentioning cost. I'm also wondering about sort of capacity for managing the
common area once it's a fiveunit complex. Is this something that there would be, you know, what would ACLT's role be in that? Would there be a homeowner association? Who would hold sort of like the master insurance policy? Who would be paying
for, you know, common common stuff? How would that be managed? And does ACLT have experience or or capacity for that sort of thing? >> It we do not have experience. This would be our first cluster. and we do intend to
u create a homeowner association. Um the um we we've begun to do research into existing models. Um one of the objects is to keep the cost low. I mean, it's typical that people in
commercial clusters pay uh homeowner association fees that are quite substantial and support a staff member and things like that. We don't foresee that happening. But uh we do foresee that the people in
that cluster, people are going to have to understand uh if they respond to the advertising for this cluster that they are going to be part of a community that's going to have to make some decisions in common. Um do they want to do their own snow plowing? you know, is
there somebody that wants to do the snow plowing or do instead they want to pull up money and hire somebody to come and plow the parking area. Those are practical decisions. The group is going to have to learn to function as a community. Um, so we hope that we start
the homeowner selection process sufficiently in advance in advance of the actual closing, then we can begin to build that sense of community and have people begin to at least get to know each other and and uh take up some practical matters like who's going to
deal with the um the snow plowing and that kind of thing. the um there before we knew we had a wetland um and that put some constraints on a significant number of square feet. Uh Bruce had a design in
which every unit had a fairly substantial private yard area. That's going to be harder to do and still um maintain the restrictions around um maintaining the wetland itself. Although you can do things like garden within the
50 foot buffer, but the um it the current setup is going to allow, you know, people can have very modest ornamental plants and stuff that there will be it will finally be laid out with
with uh some part of the space um private to each homeowner. Um but that some of those decisions still need to be made when when the design is
really finalized when we have approval of that site plan and we're going to have to go back and see what where we can really lay out private space for each family and how much common space that leaves that's going to require some kind of regular attention for
maintenance. All right, just a quick follow up on that. In terms of a master insurance policy for the complex, would that be something that ACLT would origin would initially at least hold or do you know
how that would be handled? It's >> a good question. We haven't taken that up, Jim. Okay. >> Do you have any recommendation about that? I don't I I think we we are still looking at different models. Homeowners association
possibly a condoization of the the three units maybe not including the Habitat as well as a homeowners association. So we have uh and as Linda said we don't have haven't done these types of structures before. So we we will look for legal we
will get legal guidance on that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Right. Well, it's it's been very good that we're kind of kicking the tires to understand the model, see what the issues are, see how the ACLT is planning to address them. Um, do we have more
slides to get some get get a little concreteness on or is this the presentation for this evening? No. No. Okay, here we go. Yeah. >> Okay. So, this is the um the concept that
we're coming forward with. um the phases across the top the pre-development we're not looking at here but looking at acquisition and redevelopment particularly u and um that we the the total ask to
ACL u for acquisition is a grant of $175,000 and for redevelopment a grant of $100,000. But we're proposing a model. If you just switch to the next slide, Greg, it just
puts the highlighting in a different place. These are the same numbers. But we propose a model in which uh AMAH consider being our bridge lender. Projects like this always need a bridge lender because the principal source of
revenue comes in when they're finished. Um and so we would like you to consider being our bridge lender. I'll be so bold as to suggest that would have a unique advantage for you since you're you're sitting on the cache from that u from
the Hastings project. You could point to having been a very key element in getting this project off the ground promptly, but a lot of the money would come back to you as soon as it was finished and you could take stake a claim to another big impact that you
would have with that money. So the proposal then is for a total of $275,000 in grants. Part of which would we would want for the acquisition and part would go toward uh the construction costs on
the redevelopment of the interior and in addition uh $575,000 which would be on a loan basis and would be repled with very modest interest. This is all conceptual you understand uh at the time
that the units were sold and at this this is uh although a substantial sub sum of money not the total amount needed for redevelopment. So we have a uh as you know since you've seen some of the documentation of it an ask into
community preservation act committee for $450,000 for this project. Um, and we also plan and approach the Amelia Peabody fund, um, which likes to see some of the money already committed. So, we've skipped a
couple of their deadlines. U, the next one that we would make an ask to them would be April 1st. So, the the principal sort of big new thought here is that we're asking not
just for $275,000 that we don't have to pay back, but we're inviting you to serve as our bridge lender um and help us get going a little faster than we would be able to do without that.
>> Thank you. Linda, did you want to go to the next slide? Is that what you were saying before? >> No, no, that's there in case anybody asks. Okay. >> If we're confident. Yeah, that's a backup if somebody wants to ask. >> Good. >> We expect to earn >> the sales prices. Yes. >> Why don't you back it up to the slide
over there? People can look at the model. >> Let's have some questions about um about the funding. Linda and I had the conversation about the CPA money. Can we really make a decision before we know that? And we talked about
staging our review. so that we would be in a position to make a final decision in January after we'll know about the CPA funds. I also shared with Linda my um well, first of all, we've never done
this kind of loan there. That creates a strong reason for partnering with an institution that does do loans regularly. Um, Greg and I had an initial meeting with the CDFI that funds CLTs.
And so we're we're hopeful to move that conversation forward in part just to support us with the mechanics of lending, which again is something that we haven't done and we're not really set up to uh kind of process and and and and
structure this in and in in at least not based on our past experience. Uh but with those comments made, let's hear from our membership, Algra. >> Um thank you. I guess I had
a few questions and I think maybe Gaston is pointing to the fact that we might not have answers to some about the lending model. Although I do think it's an interesting concept and would be support I mean sticker shock. It was like a big number to see like both those
amounts. However, um thinking about overall like our strategic plan that we just put out, one of the items does say supporting 20 homes for own ownership. So, this if we funded this project would get us a
quarter of the way towards that goal, which I think is pretty cool. Um, and yeah, I guess some of these questions are actually maybe more for Greg because I hadn't even thought about interest before this came up. Um, and I
was wondering if the funds that we have currently are gaining interest and then if so, how would we how would that be a fair calculation to assess back whatever
it is that we are lending while also being cognizant that it's for a nonprofit. So, um, Gaston or Greg? >> Yes. No, good that. So that's an excellent question. It's something I'm I'm I've given thought to recently. I
went to a conference about public banking in Massachusetts last week. The whole premise of public banking is taxpayer funds are sitting in New York accounts. We should be investing that money in the state. Um I can talk to you all about that another time, but indeed.
So what's happening to these funds? What what are they doing right now? Uh Greg or Paul? Is that something you can answer? >> Um, uh, yes. Uh, I I can say that our our funds are bearing interest right now. Um, um, and, uh, honestly couldn't
tell you the rate, but but the interest balance is not insignificant. It's about $180ome,000. Allegre, I think I might have sent it to you today. Um, there is some lack of clarity on uh, precisely what's allowable as far as accessing those funds. um you know I
think the most likely thing is they're available for development. Um uh uh but I I think um at the town level there's just not clarity right now and because there's fair amount of money in the development bucket right now well beyond that it hasn't been a pressing question.
Um but um it's one we could we could keep exploring and um and then and then I think you were also asking about how interest work in an outgoing sense like if if it were invested in a project like this. I mean, um, I I think, you know,
if we were to participate in a loan, um, I I I would assume part of the advantage to that would be a relatively favorable interest rate. Um, and yeah, you know, but I I think there'd have to probably be some, but it, you
know, but not a significant amount. Even so, though, we're not talking about a 30-year mortgage here, you know. So, the model is, you know, the interest costs, uh, you know, financing costs are quite separate from, you know, proportionately to what you might think of your own mortgage, you know.
>> Um, and then I guess in terms of if we are if we are thinking about a grant and a loan, is there any hindrance if we're making two separate decisions about those things? like say we we are deciding
well and I guess looking at how it's broken down you know that we we can't do anything if we don't acquire the property correct so that you know in my mind the acquisition column is more important than the redevelopment because
if we don't acquire we don't redevelop but is is there >> if there's some fees decision making that going through. Is that going to be a hindrance to the overall project? And that's more for Linda.
>> Is that question for Linda or for >> for Linda? Yeah. >> Yeah. The there issues of timing here. one of the motivations for uh asking a substantial amount from AMAHT for the
acquisition and um not asking for this for CPA money for the acquisition is that the CPA money is spendable at the earliest on the 1 of July whereas we're talking about money that AMAHT has in
hand now. So there's only the in intrinsic limitations of the time it takes to make a decision about how to do it and to decide whether you want to do it or not. Not an artificially imposed six-month limitation on how soon we can
get moving with the acquisition. >> Right? >> That said, we aren't at this point under any pressure from the family to rush ahead with the acquisition. Um, as I explained to Gaston this afternoon when we first began this discussion with the
gross family, it was a little over a year ago was September of 24. And when they brought forward the idea and just inquired whether we were interested, one of the things that I said to Derra was that we could do a lot of interesting things, but acting fast was
not one of them. And what did the family realize that it could take as much as a year? That's what when I carried this idea back to the board, the idea was we need at least a year to do enough due diligence to even give an answer about whether we want to take on this project
or not. Um, and so that was the answer that that we conveyed to the family. Uh, were they comfortable not getting an answer yes or no firmly from us as to whether we wanted to proceed for as much
as a year? And the answer to that was yes. Well, the year is up. Um, but things aren't sort of go quite so black and white, go no go. The reality is that Deborah Gross has participated in the working team. So, she's been with us
every step of the way. And in fact, we've already done and in some cases paid for a lot of the work. She's paid for some of it for which she needed to be the owner to request the work. Um, but ACLT has
neighborhood of 10 to$15,000 on the table just on the pre-development work so far. So, the project is doing its pre-development work. You can't get to an answer that allows you to say yes or no uh firmly that you're going to go ahead with the project until you've done
a lot of the pre-development work. So in that context, Deborah herself suggested uh as we were forming the timetable that's up on the slide now that um there was no need to rush to try to get the
acquisition done in this year for example. you know that we could just go ahead in a reason at a reasonable pace uh to acquire the acquisition funds and and the family was not pushing to have
to sort of hold us to a year from when the conversation started. And she pointed out that if we waited until summer of 26 to do the acquisition, a lot of the things that are uncertain now might be settled. we might already have
firm answers on the permitting and um and one one point I didn't raise with this slide is that we are also going ahead with u some private fundraising um people because they know this project
is going on even though we haven't formally solicited money for it even from some of our stalwarts who've supported a lot of stuff we've done people have started to come forward and say, "Can I give to the 174 AMD
project?" So, with I didn't even attempt a number to share tonight, but I feel a pretty high degree of confidence that we're probably going to have some private citizens that want to be players in this game. Um to and again, just the
time between now and next summer, um we might know a lot more about that. That's a long-winded answer to your question, but that's kind of why this timetable is set up the way it is. It's because you have money in hand in the CPA money, no
matter how positive their decision is, still can't be spent until the 1st of July. >> Does that answer your followup? Yes, >> it does. Well, my followup is for you. Um, >> yes, go ahead. >> So, I'm hearing that we're probably not actually voting on this tonight. I want
to voting for this. This is a, as you can tell, there's a lot for us to digest >> and we're going to and thankfully the the the sellers, the owners are gracious in their um in the time that they're
giving the ACLT. And so, it will be very helpful for us to be able to make a um a final decision when we know where the CPA comes out. And when does that happen? >> Yeah, in December.
>> Okay. Um All right, then. I don't have anything else for tonight. >> Okay. Thank you, Algra. EJ, >> I have probably a few too many questions right now, unfortunately. I'm just going to try to prioritize a few just to maybe
um maybe these are more suggestions. So, the acquisition, as Algra says, is is kind of not not necessarily a prior, not necessarily the priority. It's more like it comes first. it nothing happens without the acquisition but everything is a priority in this if none of the funding exists then the complete the
project doesn't complete we don't have affordable housing and and from a a lender's perspective we don't actually get the money back until that the houses sell right am I am I understanding this correctly okay um the one thing that I I'm kind of
caught up on is obviously the the amount that's being asked yes we do have money um but it is intended to fund and not just this project but a lot of projects hopefully or at least we like our mission is to drive as many housing affordable housing uh units as possible.
Um this project is mission uh aligned with with the housing trust. So I think it's a very important project but this is an incredibly large amount to swallow. So that's something that I just wanted to just state outright. Um it might help to maybe stage our approval
in in the different phases that you have presented here. maybe acquisition first and then re redevelopment. One thing that I'm kind of sensing is that redevelopment is a variable mark here. Um and perhaps uh this will give you guys time to get some or or us to get
some sort of thirdparty vetting on the cost estimates just to be sure on the numbers. Um is that something that I just open question to maybe Gaston Greg or even something mechanism we can get? >> Yeah, I'll I'll kind of share one point
here and and Greg will follow. Um, I see a lot of advantages to bringing to the party an institution like a CDFI that is experience funding CLTs because they also bring technical assistance. they're supporting the
project and we can um kind of ride the coattails of of of their analysis and and so I I don't know whether the time what I don't know about the timings but I um you know Greg and I did meet
with with a CDFI that thinks this project is right in their sweet spot and so I'm hoping that we can connect the ACLT with the the local enterprise assistance fund, you know, ASAP to see
if we can get that into the conversation because I feel like it could integrate this all in a very nice way to have an experienced player in the space as a co-pilot. >> Okay.
And and so just just kind of to my earlier point about maybe staging the decision from from a housing trust perspective, are we confident in the number and the acquisition as being sort of like a fixed amount that's like not likely to change before we actually have
to decide on this >> then? Um yes. >> Okay. And then the redevelopment is something that like obviously construction is very variable as as everybody >> construction is variable. We're in in fact um we didn't leave the slide before this
one up for long. Back it up uh a couple slides to where the actual costs are summarized. I should just point out to you that between the time that uh I distributed the paper version and the time that I made the slides, the total
cost went up by $30,000. That's that's because we got a little reality check on the an earlier estimate on site work. >> Yeah. And we were we still don't have a firm estimate on site work but uh the
Bucky Sparkle who's helping us with that said that the 30,000 that we had in the budget now for side work site work he said it's hard to know where this is going to go until we've really uncovered all the problems but I think you ought to put 60 rather than 30. So I went and
corrected all the stuff. So if you if you compare this with the paper version that got circulated the total there is 469 and the added 30 was in the redevelopment went from 847 to 877.
>> Yeah and I fully sympathize with your the the this is this is the the joys of project management isn't it? It just leaves some surprises. >> Yeah. Interestingly, in the the transition of for the the total cost of redevelopment,
the specific um estimate of the construction costs actually um was very close to the square footage estimate. the person doing both those estimates, the one the detailed one after we had
design specs and the one that was just based on the square footage of the area and his experience dealing with buildings of this age is Seth Lawrence Slavas, the president of Wright Builders. and his square footage estimate was astonishingly close to what
it came out when he was actually saying, "Okay, so many 2x4s, so many new windows, so many new doors, so much concrete." Um, and plugging all that into the software that he uses to make estimates. Was amazed by how close that came.
>> U, but in the meantime, of course, who knows what the tariffs are going to do to the cost of their materials. So yeah, we could um that's one of many reasons why I'm strongly uh moving toward engaging some
of our donors that have the capability to make a real difference which and that wasn't part of the original plan for this project because I the political situation has so destabilized. >> Absolutely. Uh just maybe a technical question is contingency is there like a
fixed percentage that you're applying to this estimate here? >> Um the did I actually show you the contingency? >> I don't I don't recall to be honest. Yeah, the yeah a fair amount of there's
contingency in uh in pre-development uh there's not contingency in the acquisition u but there's contingency and then in two different parts of the uh summed up uh estimates for redevelopment the total
contingency in that budget is about 10% of the the total it's $154,000 if you pull out all the places where we identify a contingency didn't see they add up to 154,000. >> Is that based off of anything or is that
just a nominal number? >> Um those are in some cases they're based on on percentages of individual elements. It just turned out that when they were summed up they were they were about 10% of the total.
>> Okay. >> Added up to that. And that's a pretty good standard um for how these things generally work. >> Yeah. I um you know, you like to think that the contingencies are
as you continue to refine the estimates and they're based more and more on precise design elements rather than con conceptual ones. Um uh but the the one major um undefinable element now is
how bad prices are going to get as the >> political situation stays unstable. >> Absolutely. And then last point, I I realize that there's a CPA aspect to this and a housing trust aspect of this. Fundamentally, these funding sources are
actually fairly aligned. In fact, they're pretty much the same. it from a a very like basease perspective. I I'm just kind of worried about transparency uh in in the fact that the ACLT is asking for funding on redevelopment from both the CPA and the housing trust. Is
there a way for us to maybe uh understand the differentiation of what the funds are being acquisitioned for? the um well you actually the the our proposal to the to CPAC is a public document
and so you know what we're asking them for and they know that we're asking you and it to be candid this it feels peculiar to me that the town has put the resources to which we would legitimately
apply. I mean it arose historically but the resources are in two different places. >> Yeah. >> Um I in the very earliest discussion of that one way to think about it is to say what's the total amount that we're asking a town to invest in this process
and you know there kind of days when I'd like to just say why don't you guys to decide how you want to divvy it up. uh trust me >> make us decide what should come from AMAH and what should come from CPA. We want the town to commit a certain
fraction of the total. One thing that I didn't include in tonight's slides that I sometimes do include and I can send it to you is um a to get a perspective on what fraction of ACLT's work we're
asking you to support. It's a much smaller fraction than the fraction of this project project we're asking you to support. >> Yeah. >> During during the interval that we do this project, uh we will have acquired a
gift of property, land, and home and $100,000. Um, the house is probably it's a house on Lincoln Avenue, one of the more modest houses on Lincoln Avenue, but it'll appraise at half a million at
least. Um, and we are just closing on a property in which ACLT will end up owning uh a $300,000 interest based on the family selling below market and
$150,000 that we raised. Um, and we are looking at another contribution from one of our members analogous to the one that I talked about where the donor still resident in the home. Another house on
that same block is is proposing to follow that model and may we may close on that still this year. Oh, I forgetting there are four projects. She fearing street oh this project this is the fourth project. We have four live projects
right now. We're not asking you for a nickel for any of the others and they will add substantial value to our portfolio and that's just at the beginning. Who knows what we'll get over the three years that this unfolds. So you're not being asked for anywhere near
the cost of our work as as it appears from the fraction of this project we're asking you to weigh in on. just lends itself to public funding because of its scale. >> Good. And and another way to to put this, Linda, that I think we you you
also endorse is that we this is the beginning of a long and beautiful relationship between the trust and the ACLT. We we we we're going to be supporting each other uh perpetually. Um uh so uh the this is
the project where you need our our assistance but we are uh cheerleaders for all your work. >> Um Alex. >> Yeah. I just want to take a moment and speak in very strong favor of this
project and to thank um Linda and the entire board for their work on this. Algra pointed out how closely this aligns with our internal goals from our action plan and I want to highlight that. I'd love to highlight that these are ownership units that will be
affordable for low and moderate income families in perpetuity. I know that for some of our newer members this might feel like a lot of money to put in one place. I will tell everybody that I was pleasantly surprised with how low this
ask was. Um, I was actually expecting a much higher number, but this is an incredibly experienced team that ACLT has put together. This is a wonderful location for a project. We just received like substantial contributions from an
inloo um from our inclusionary zoning process. This is so close to where that project is. Like if we're thinking about nearsight affordable housing development, this is it. This is at a size project that the town has expressed
support for. It's like in this middle missing middle housing scale. It's bedroom and unit counts that the town is desperately in need of. It is walkable and busible to a grocery store, to downtown, to places of employment. Um, I also want to highlight that part of why
we exist as a trust and part of what I've always viewed as our strength is our flexibility to pursue things and cover gaps that are hard to cover, including this pre-development work, including this bridge loan. I know that we have a little bit of homework on our
end as we think about how to structure that in a way that's sustainable and works for this project and sets a precedent moving forward. I am going to ask and encourage our chair and our staff support here to really think about making this as soft of debt as possible.
There are several home like affordable housing projects and home loan banks out there that offer zero or near zero interest loans. I would love to see us move closer to that direction with this. Um, and just to remember that this is
for us a one-time expenditure that is going to enable affordable home ownership in town for five households forever. And we don't see opportunities like that very much. So many state projects have basically a sunset period on their affordability restrictions. Um,
this is like is such a unique strength of the land trust model and to know that this is investment in our community in a way that's so aligned with our goals. I just wanted to call that out and ask that of our chair and our staff support as we think through um what this lending
could look like. I'd also like to encourage us to move as quickly as we can on this. We all know from experience that once you start having monies committed to projects, it strengthens your other grant applications and your
other asks and it helps make projects much more real for people and it helps bring down ultimate construction costs because the earlier you can engage in contracts, the earlier you can get GMPS that are set. So, I would encourage us
all to support this to move quickly and to think about making this as soft of debt as possible. Um, also as we're thinking about whatever this final agreement looks like with ACLT, I would love for us to keep the door open
to think about further contributions this project as it develops. Particularly thinking about those very small extra things we can do to increase livability and affordability and alignment with our goals. thinking mostly about as I said um conversion of
heat fuel systems into electric systems and I do hope that that you share your working session um schedule Linda cuz I would love to go to that but I would love us to think about that as well and think about if there are other um contributions we as a trust would be
willing to make to take that project this extra step to take it from already a great strong project in my opinion to a really fantastic project that we can point to for the rest of time as a strong example of what our model can do.
>> Uh thank you for that framing and and reminding us about what's important. Alex, uh Greg, maybe uh you take the final questions here so we can spend a few minutes on on our committees before we close tonight. >> Sure. And I just want to follow with a couple with a couple details actually.
Um just speaking to um contingency, you know, escalation, etc. Um, you know, uh, it seems to me that, um, time here, uh, is in our favor cost escalation wise in the sense that there is no state funding
queue that this project would need to wait in. Um, unlike a lot of what else we do, which often results in, you know, very significant inflation escalators. Um, I think that would be greatly mitigated here. I just wanted to note that. Um, and then also this is a rehab project. um and not well the three 60%
of it is rehab which can present unpredictable things related to contingency but I would think probably less unpredictable stuff as far as materials um you know for example valley community homes um ate tariff costs a
lot right um this probably less so because we're not building from the ground up brand new with every single piece getting tariffed basically um you know there'll be some nuke materials obviously it um proportionately less I think so the concern around tariffs sort
of national political environment that kind of thing to me that's somewhat mitigated by both the shorter timeline and the rehab that was my point okay so uh uh Linda and Jim do you want to make a you know very brief final word
before we uh thank you for your presence >> yeah do you want to go person. >> Uh I don't have anything other than thanking you all for so much time to be able to to and so much interest in this project.
>> Okay. Yeah, I would I would eu echo Jim's thought that I really appreciate the amount of time and not only the whole committee has spent, but Greg and and Gaston have individually or the two of them together spent a lot of time
helping us to prepare for this meeting. So, I'm very grateful for that. And um Alex, I'm particularly grateful for your fullhearted support of the project. That's very encouraging.
Just very briefly, let me say the whole experience of being part of ACLT from its beginning and particularly the flowering of the last two or three years. I've just been blown away by the generosity of the people of Ammerst. I
mean, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of property been put in our hands, and people just cheerfully walk away from $200,000 worth of value in their property because of they feel the commitment to the stabilization of
neighborhoods and to affordable housing. So, it it really is a pleasure to be part of this. >> All right. Well, here here and uh to be continued. Thank you. Uh we'll we'll we'll keep at it. Um, we'll send out the working group information as if Alex
didn't have enough meetings. Uh, we're we're grateful for his appetite. >> Yeah. Um, uh, I just want you to notice, Gaston, that Mora popped in. She's been sitting patiently through this. Mora is the clerk of ACLT
and and also one of the editors of the Ammerst Indie, which has covered our work nicely over the years. of course getting covered both in the indie and the current these days please. >> Okay. Excellent. Well, thank you for your time. Um we're going to do a little
uh internal housekeeping in in our last 15 minutes. >> Can I just invite you all to our annual meeting on December 7th >> at UMass at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. That's a Sunday. It's in the honor honors college at UMass. And we'll be
sending out an invitation. now send it through Greg, but he'll forward it all to you December 7th. >> All righty. >> We'll we'll be celebrating our success with 61 fearing. That'll be a highlight of that meeting besides the business meeting. >> Excellent. Well, thank you for stopping
in uh Mora and uh thank you all. So, uh we'll see you uh probably at our next meeting. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Um, okay. Well, you know, we we we've kept our good record of of keeping to
our time. Um, uh, a privilege other town committees don't have. Um, I think the the the real agenda item is just to hear from, uh, uh, the beginning of the subcommittee work and also um, uh,
Algra, your your work organizing events. So we can just kind of do a a roundroin for anybody who has any updates. Um Bob uh Bob Greg and I met earlier this week and we we can share some updates. But who else would like to uh start and and
just any updates that you have to share? >> I can quick >> go ahead Algra. Um so I have been in touch with the Donahghue Institute and various um housing groups around the Hampshire County. Um the Donna Hue
Institute was actually planning to have countywide listening sessions about the um their report that they put out. So we are in talks about whether it makes sense to have an additional
um presentation in Ammerst because it is a regionally based report. Um but I I do hope that once they have set the date for that we are at the very least
invited to participate in it. um cuz I know that they were scheduling their Pittsfield one like the week that I had reached out to them or it was on the schedule. So, um I will keep everyone updated as I hear more.
>> Okay. And that reminds me in terms of events there, uh Paul, you're going to be meeting with our new town planner at a cup of Joe, a Friday cup of Joe coming up. Is that >> Yeah. No, this Friday it's Sean McGon, our new finance director. And then in December it'll be our new planning e
economic development director Jeff Bag. >> Okay. All right. So um that uh December one may I'm going to try to be there. It's um you know certainly uh close to the work that we're doing. Um >> good.
>> So for uh Bob uh Greg and I met for this kind of ecosystem innovation initiative. Part of what we're looking at is the extent to which affordable housing trusts in Massachusetts have been using calls for
proposal. Turns out fair amount of of precedents that we have for consultants, program managers, equity for larger projects, pre-development funding, feasibility studies, funding specific projects. So, uh, we're gonna just kind
of follow through and and figure out what bearing the state procurement and bidding laws may have on the framing of of calls for proposal. Uh but we're going to see if we can create some basic structure that we can use not only for
the ecosystem in innovation initiatives, but maybe also just for the bread and butter of of the funding that we've done historically. Maybe it would be helpful to actually announce to the world this is the kind of project proposal that we're looking
for. Um even though some of the established players know know how to come to us already. So that that is I guess part of the update I'd like to give. Um Bob, >> sure. Um so we also looked at um some
financing programs offered through trust uh and also uh specific to ADUs as well to see other examples. Um the city of Boston um has in terms of ADU has uh technical assistance grants uh for
designing and permitting uh small um and also 0% loan financing uh for owners up to 50,000. So that was one interesting model and they have a good portal site. Um there's a uh a
group called Renoi uh which is a sort of a consortium of lenders it seems and one of the things that was interesting with them was that they had um uh pre-approved uh ADU designs um as an example they're active mostly on the
west coast uh but also Washington DC but open to um exploring you know developing this sort of uh resource in other markets. Um SEDAC uh was another one
that u is a community economic development and assistance corporation and they have a home modification for ADUs. It's really focused on accessibility. So for instance, ramps and and that sort of thing. And the the scenario there would be where the
homeowner is uh either staying in the the main home or moving into an ADU uh but they have financing as well. So there are a number of different examples like this that um we're looking into uh into more and some of those sort of uh
crossed over with the RFPs as well. I think uh Worcester was one community that was a good model. Somerville was another one. Um, so more research to do in that area, but encouraging. >> Greg, what you want you want to pick up
from there? Maybe um uh you can tell folks about the the mints that we've learned about. >> Um, sure. kind of another thread of research uh which isn't really started yet but just an idea that we learned about um I think via um uh chatting with
that CDFI um but are something called a mixed income neighborhood trust which is a a sort of um a design as a bigger vehicle um to pop sort of scattered sites into um so kind of you know there's a few emerging models out there around uh creative ownership um the CLT
is uh sort of um tickling that uh in their own way, but you know, a mint is maybe even a more sophisticated version of it. But >> all right. Well, um, we, uh, you know, want to try to get the other two subcommittees in in motion. So, uh, Greg
and I will follow up offline to, uh, try to get those, um, those meetings happening so we can, uh, begin to kind of formulate the mandate for for those efforts. And, um, I guess at this point
take any any questions, any one want to reflect on the process of hearing about the ACLT proposal. Um, welcome that or other ideas. Alex, please. >> One thing that is not related to what we
talked about today, but a request for a future agenda item. Um, Greg and Gastana, I'd be very curious if we could invite folks or representative from some of the co-housing communities in town >> um to come speak to us as we think about
kind of this development ecosystem and alternative housing model piece. I think that that's something that is not unique to Ammerst, but unique that we have so many residents living in co-ousing and I'd love to hear more about as we think about this. >> Um, yeah,
>> good. I I have I have some contacts. Uh, so uh that's a great idea and uh Greg, can you make a note in in the master checklist? Uh, excellent. Algra.
>> Um, I guess my question, I think this will probably be like an ongoing conversation as we talk more about different development, but just making sure that we're not losing sight of affordability. I mean, I feel like there's all sorts of great ideas, but I
just want to make sure that if we're putting out proposals for ADUs or something that there's going to be >> can we can we have an affordability restriction or is, you know, how how do we bake that into whatever it is that we're doing
>> precisely? I I I think that would be the the predicate for our funding would be to get there. Um uh so there there's more work to do, but part of what Bob was looking into was can we uh find other funders so that between the two of
our contributions we can get to the to the affordability level that we'd like to get to. EJ, >> yeah, just uh remind me when we were expecting to actually decide on the 174 emity project.
Uh I I'd like to see if if we can uh do that in January after we have the the number from uh the CPA and um hopefully we can make some headway on on some of the other uh paths that were discussed
this evening >> and are we going to delay the decision if we don't get those numbers? Uh I mean this is all this is all uh you know very very fluid. Um >> right. >> Um so uh
uh you know you can you want to uh kind of verbalize your your thinking a little more behind the question just to put on the table. >> I I think again I'm not not saying that the project is bad or anything like that or I'm against the project. It's just I
think it's our due diligence that we have to do before we spend spend money to understand the the the numbers behind the numbers. So just just something that I would love to have as much information as possible. >> Yes. And and just to kind of sh I already said it, but to show my own cards explicitly,
that's why I'd really love to get a CDFI who's done this before. >> Yeah. >> Um kind of leading the charge. And uh one piece that we got from the CDFI is their checklist of what they want from a CLT before they fund. We shared that with Linda. She appreciated it. Has
almost all of those items ready. So I hear your point. Um and and that's the step that um I'm pushing to help with your concern. >> Okay. The second point is more of like getting on my soap box. Linda kind of
made a illusion to it, but the fact that our money we apply for CPA funding and then it gets kind of basically cycled back through in this dual format is it is an awkward part of our town. I don't think we can do anything about it. I understand it's part of our system. But I just I do want to echo that like this
is probably going to come up in future projects and probably has come up in my guess. >> Yeah. And I I'd love um uh Paul Paul's feedback here. I mean, one, as you know, HJ, you know, I was wondering in the
conversation with Greg as we prepared our CPA application, how to just differentiate our respective competencies, >> right, >> and legitimacies, the CPA versus the trust, and to what extent should that bear on which of us is giving money for
what? you know, I don't have concrete answers, but I I wonder Paul if you have any reflections or comments whether on the history or or uh form and function here. >> Yeah, I mean that'll be very quick. So CPA is a totally different process. It's a you know different funding sources,
taxpayer money. Um they will make a recommendation in December, then it goes to the town council. They're the actually appropriating authority goes directly to the town council. So that won't happen probably till March. So there won't be a real decision for sure on CPA till till then. Um I think the
concern I have is um but so for this project I'd be interested in seeing if they have a proformer or anything like that that's up and running. Maybe you have it already but that's something I think we should share out. Um and then I you know I think that what I'm sort of getting concerned about with the trust is that people are coming the trust has
money. People are coming to us like a granting agency and it feels like we're not sort of we're not driving. we're sort of like doing out and every project that comes to us is really compelling and and wonderful and maybe our job isn't to sort of help. I think the trust
ought to be driving things instead of just sort of waiting and writing checks. So I just I'm getting concerned because that's been our pattern over the last few years. >> Yeah. Thank you, Paul. and and I see the articulation of calls for proposal as a
vehicle for getting some clarity about the buckets and what we want to do with them. Um and and getting more proactive about generating the kinds of proposals that we're looking for. Uh so I I I feel I feel your that concern as well. um
that we we're we don't we're not in uh we don't have policy direction. Um uh Alex, that's actually similar to what I was going to bring up. So, thank you Paul and Gaston for that. Um, I know since
I've joined the trust, we've engaged with a conversation several times about our own standards for deciding funding and whether that is on a scheduled basis, whether that's as it comes to us and have had some discussion and seemingly never landed somewhere
completely concrete on that and when we've reached agreement verbally, it's never been written down. And as we continue to see larger amounts hopefully in the future flowing through the trust, I do think that's important. So as we're moving through this project in
particular, I think that this is more an invitation for all of us to be thinking a lot about what we want to see in terms of standards and how prescriptive we want to get. I what I don't know and what I would love an answer from Paul or
Greg on and it doesn't need to be today but thinking about as we move towards actually setting some standards and procedures ourself how we best do that if that's an appropriate request of town staff that we ask to come back to us if
that's something that we should pass to one of our committees it I I don't know the best way to move forward with that while complying with open meeting laws So, I'd love some advice and guidance on that, but especially now that we have clear a clear action plan and we're
about to see hopefully the adoption of a um housing production plan by the town that we've supported. I'd love to see us start to actually take this opportunity and be decisive and in Paul's metaphor start driving a little bit.
>> Good point. Well worth taking Algra. Um I guess two things and one is I do think that there even if we're not saying hey we want this right now like
we did set our strategic plan which does outline again that we want to build at least 20 home ownership opportunities. Um, and I've, you know, again, >> yes, >> we don't always have control over when
other entities have the ability or potential to develop something. So, I I do think that in a sense that's, you know, these things pop up and it's like, oh, that's great. Um, and I understand that that might not be
sustainable long term, but I also do think when there are >> big projects in front of us that are that have a again a potential for affordability in perpetuity. Those are
important to take. And I guess my question would also be what would there be any benefit in us at least having a conversation next month about the grant portion that they are asking about so that the 275 is
separately considered from the 575 loan because then if we are saying you know what we're not going to do the loan we don't feel like we're set up for that model we've set you up with the place that can do that but having that chunk from us would allow them to say hey in
hand we already have this and that gives them again the leverage to get that additional funding. I think that that's important and that also that would show CPA some um you know faith from us as the trust and I you know I do think that
like correct me if I'm wrong Paul but the community homes project also received money from both us and the CPA and we we as the trust gave them almost the amount that the ACLT is asking for
right now and that was all a grant, not a loan. Um, so I do think it is a big number, but looking at the cost per unit for those three units that they are developing, not Habitat is developing, I
don't think that that's actually that much money compared to what the new construction of Ammeris Community Homes cost per development or per unit. Um, and what and it's not that much more than what they we were hearing an ADU
might cost per unit over the summer. Um, and I don't have that number in my head, but I, you know, I think to I was actually pleasantly surprised to see that 400,000 was like what they were anticipating per unit. I think that's in
this economy with materials as they are, I think that's actually quite reasonable. So, that would be my plug. Um, and I'm going to stop talking. >> Good. Uh, I it's helpful for you to point out that difference, Algra. the
the place where I um am still not stuck, but where my mind goes is that I don't feel like we've done the diligence on the whole of the project and we're not going to I don't feel comfortable saying, "Okay, here's
300 grand to put towards the purchase." If we haven't gotten fully comfortable with where the project's going to end up, like if we're going to put any money towards this project, we need to be
have kind of felt that we're ready to sign off on it. And I I don't personally feel ready ready for that yet. Um, and I it seems to me that giving money to purchase the building
is part of blessing the whole project, the construction, the renovation, the vision for sale, the whole of it. I that's that's how it's going through my brain. I don't know if you if if you have a comment to that or if that's
consistent with what you're saying. I mean, I I feel that looking at the team that they've put together, I mean, Wright Construction is really a wellrespected firm um and I think that they have
a great range of experience in addressing the different um aspects. I mean I I have a lot of respect for the community land trust model myself. Um and I do think that they have
done some nothing like this yet and they are very transparent about that. But I do think that their model has been successful for other homeowners um both purchasing and
then staying in to you know gift the property after they are no longer here. So, I mean, I think >> yes, >> I you know, >> I'm not as nitpicky about the details of the construction, I guess, in terms of
like if they're going to have tin ceilings or not, but, you know, I think >> I think that >> this is much more of a proposal than we've seen from some other things that we've given money to. So I I mean I I don't I know we're not like voting on
this today and I think that you know it seems like there's a lot to unpack that we might not have time for given that we're over time but >> Yes. >> Um >> great. >> Yeah. I just want to say you know so as of the most recent materials um uh we
we've noted that Seth of Wright Builders has agreed to to oversee the hiring of a construction of a qualified construction supervisor. So, we don't have right builders officially on the project yet or perhaps at all. We don't have clarity there. Um
u and then just a a couple other clarifications. So, one um you know, I think it makes a there's probably a very healthy process at some point in our deliberations of separately considering the loan versus the uh the investment.
Not necessarily that they have to be on different timelines, but I think they are kind of discreet things. Um, but I'll say too, there might not be a timing issue there in that perhaps those things could happen simultaneously. I think we we we've we've begun to
understand this project as acquisition needing to happen well before redevelopment. It doesn't necessarily need to work that way. Like things could all close at once. Um, and the investments could be happening simultaneously. I'm not sure if if if ACLT can facilitate that or not, but
perhaps they could. And I also want to note time. We do want to make sure we do public comment and I know Ruby is with us as well and has her hand up. >> All right. So, yeah, Alex, if you can keep it as brief as possible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Really quickly, I agree with everything Algra said. Um, I support us
moving quickly on this and I also personally am a big advocate of the ACLT model. So, Greg, I I hear what you're saying that there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate timeline for moving one versus the other, but um I agree with everything said. Another
thing to think about for the future, and maybe this is something to request of the town manager and of Greg, we've mentioned it before, but I know that recently the town council received a big update on Hickory Ridge and kind of
what's next with that site. It's something we've talked about before and as a trust have expressed support for at least thinking about affordable housing on that site. Back to this theme of thinking of how we can drive a little bit as we start to flush out our own standards. I'd love to have a discussion
with the town and with town staff to see if there are ways we can proactively support that process. From what I understand, the town is um either looking for or about to be looking for a consultant to move forward with the project of gathering community input and
thinking about final product. Paul, please correct me if if you're at a different point in that. Um, okay. But I would love for us to think about ways we can support the town and maybe request an update from our planning department or town manager to think about if there
are ways we can contribute to that as well. Okay. Thank you, Alex. So, it's been two hours. We haven't heard from you, Carla, or or Rob. Uh, I don't know if you want to give us one sentence just so we hear your voice this evening. >> I mean, I'm more of a soaker. I'm just a
lot of my questions that I had were answered. But I share a lot of people's feelings about how I agree that this is a really worthwhile project and I'm still getting a sense of how it would fit into the greater scope of what we have done, what we want to do. And I
also kind of agree with what um I'm glad that the you know the I do feel like so far a lot of things we've talked about have been more reactive and I'm kind of looking for as Paul was talking about kind of being more proactive in in looking forward. But I know these are all those are big
questions and big ideas but um yeah overall I mean I think it's an a great project and even when you think about it it's the amount that we would be giving divided by five even makes it more um I think more attractive you know because
it's not just for one >> um place but again um I'm still trying to figure out how all these things fit into um yeah just the history of what we've done and and and you know what we're planning to do But I I also appreciate Algra saying that it's you
know we have some very clear goals and one of them is to support 20 houses and this would be an amazing way to work towards that. So nothing nothing earthshattering but yeah and uh Rob and I have a um we're planning next week to kind of get together for one of the subcommittees with regards to the um
rapid response and so we're a little bit behind but yes it is on our calendar. So >> glad you're getting started. Um Rob, any uh what what what reactions can you share? >> Yeah, and to um I guess to keep it brief, um echoing Carla's um comments, I
think that with what we're trying to achieve as a trust and what this project entails, I think it checks almost all of the boxes for the specifics of like due diligence. that's what I'm thinking that I need to spend more time
on myself to really understand those logistics. Um, but for me it's, you know, the location is fantastic. It's, you know, exactly what we're looking to sort of support as a trust from, you know, the outside looking in. So um my
scope on this is it's a you know I'm very excited about potentially working with this organization to you know help where we can but similarly I think for for me in particular taking more time to really understand the nuances of what this actually means you know what the
ripple effects could be from this um to me it seems all positive but again being fairly new to this space there's obviously a lot that I I don't know so taking that time I think is going to important to um making the the right decision. Um so I'm happy to to be doing
that and then for us to continue this conversation at another time as well. >> Excellent. And uh so Ruby uh you've been with us uh in the background. Do you want to Oh, you do have a hand. So let's uh let's promote you and and uh you can be our closer.
Hello. >> Hi. >> Um, so my comments are actually not to do with what you discussed tonight, although it's very interesting and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to go through it. Um, I just wanted
to flag really quickly that at the state house and also virtually um, next week there's a couple hearings that might be of interest. Specifically, the joint committee on housing is meeting next week. Um, and one of the bill or a couple of the bills that they're talking about do have to do with that rent
control and rent stabilization. I know that's been of interest to people in the past. Um, so that one is on Wednesday, November 19th. If you're interested in submitting testimony, you can do that by like sending an email written testimony
or you can speak at the hearing either virtually or in person. Um there's also a hearing the following day or the day before um for the joint committee on children, families, and persons with disabilities that has a couple housing
related bills as well. um those are more focused on emergency housing, but they do look into um I know at least one of them is focused on a study of the causes of homelessness and specifically I believe related to women's homelessness.
Um but yeah, that's the the quick update on my end and yeah, thank you again. If you're interested in providing testimony, please feel free to let us know. Happy to help facilitate. Uh wonderful. Thank you uh for for being
here, Ruby, and and for sharing that information. Uh thanks everybody for your patience going 15 minutes over. Uh good good meeting. We did we we we processed a lot of very uh important information. So I appreciate your patience. Have a good night.