##VIDEO ID:xPnCCBNHTh4## Welcome to our January meeting of the affordable housing Trust of Amherst uh we uh have a quorum and Why Don't We Begin by uh having review and approval of the minutes are there any comments any feedback about the the minutes Greg prepared and I just want to say once more uh Greg the the quality of the minutes has really been uh fabulous um I can kind of go back and remember the conversations and um so very grateful for that any any any did anyone spot anything hi welcome Grover and algra any um anything to point out about the minutes that we should modify before we approve them oh Erica please yeah very minor and ditto uh to that comment they're excellent minutes um and I don't have them in front of me but there's a place where there two th and there's a where there's I think it says on and is um so you may just want to it's minor but you may just want to take a look at them I can send you where it is sure I can search it okay thanks okay sorry about that uh seeing no other comments um uh can we have a a motion to approve the minutes don't moved a second yep okay um all all in favor hi okay thank you um minutes are approved and so we have the opportunity this evening to uh learn more about the present status of the housing production plan and also uh share our feedback about um our views about what is worth pursuing so I will let uh Greg and and Tony take it from here and I thought I thought I saw Tony but um maybe he's waiting to uh um accept my promotion until we uh go go into that um so um uh uh so Tony I'm gonna promote you I think I'm hoping you're Barrett Planning Group Zoom one so I'm gonna promote you to panelist right now and then um you should get a a notice to accept um here you come um so I'm hand it to Tony in a minute but just uh kind of to frame uh where we're at here so we are kind of moving into the goals and then fairly soon after a you know strategy development phase of the housing production plan um which you're all familiar with at this point as far as what that document is um we kind of K kicked off the goal section of our uh of our effort on Tuesday we had a forum um at the the library downstairs in the Woodbury room and had some great turnout um and and good you know sort of public attention to it um and what seemed like pretty robust feedback lots of people writing on Post-its um I wasn't really able to absorb much of those I talked to a lot of folks but wasn't really able to kind of look what people were writing because I was chatting with a lot of different folks um but uh Tony might have some highlights uh uh from that tonight um and so yeah so where we are now is you know gonna get into some goals so what I thought we could do is kind of have Tony sort of share just some highlights of the data collection we've been doing both uh through um census analysis and the needs assessment into the public engagement stuff that we've been doing um and then I kind of facilitate a little bit of just open conversation around um uh you know priority goals for this document and I'll kind of get more into how we might approach that after Tony shares a little bit um but that's kind of where we're at um and I think uh with that um Tony uh did I miss anything before we jump into the weeds in your piece or no um thank you Greg that was a sorry we um we're restructuring our whole Zoom uh license so it's you know that's why I'm joining as BPG Zoom one but um no that was great I I have a slides up I can uh share that with you all and you know I'll just um share some points and um you know have some updates on the projects as well as uh some several uh highlights from um some the uh the data collection that we've gathered thus far as far as as well as uh this the public survey that we had rolled out a few months ago so for sure and you know and I uh forgive me Tony and for the the benefit of um anybody who might be watching and recording in the future or who's in the audience now I should be more formal in my introduction of you as a representative of Barrett Planning Group uh which is the consultant the town has engaged to develop the housing production plan for us and Tony's been uh kind of with us since the start of this process so we as when to kind of offer that context for the record so go ahead thank you um all right okay can you see this okay great um so it's good to see everyone here again uh my name is Tony Yung and um we're I'm with Barrett Planning Group and I'll just get started here so last I that last we met we um had just finished up the housing needs assessment draft uh I had shared that with you all um and asked for that um you all read it uh review it and um you know submit comments to us in the form of the the comment resolution Matrix form um and um I believe GRE had shared that with you and and um we've received a few back from you and I think we're still waiting on a couple more so you know please um when you can um you know just fill that out and um the sooner we can get them all back um the sooner we can you know make any necessary visions that you feel are important all right and then so now we are moving on to the next phase of the project which you know we where we were focusing on uh the housing goals so this is going to entail the div vision and goals um production targets as well as the measurable indicators you know I guess Swit that U you know the the goals that we develop are going to be evaluated and um you know so that we can keep track you know once during the implementation of the uh the plan that the town you know can you know from time to time take a look at where they are um and make sure that um that they're working towards the uh the goals that they had laid out in this plan and then once we have the uh the goals developed then we will move on to the implementation strategies which will you know focus on more specific and uh you know more detailed action items um and that will follow this component um in pretty soon um so yeah please be um on the lookout for that all right um yeah just a refresher on the housing needs assessment um you know just a I'll just share a couple of key points that we found you know super compelling um that we had found um you know so that you know we have found that you know the median income of um I'm sorry the the the income of the median household in Amis you know can only afford you you know a house that's say $285,000 the median sales price of single family home in ammer in the past year was $600,000 so that's a difference of you know $314,000 um you know just double what um what we had uh deemed that the affordable household or the that the median household can afford in ammer um and something that we had U recently assessed um we looked at uh you know patterns of llc's and um you know single family home transactions as um some of you had requested to you know um that we had looked a little bit into we were only able to look into that pattern um into in the past five years uh back to 2019 um and this is just a little snippet of you know the uh the analyses we had done you know based on the assessor records that were provided to us and we found that in the past um you know back going back to 2019 we found that um there were 75 uh LLC transactions and that 52 of them were um were homes that were sold by by um you know a resident or um you know a long time a long-term immer resident as opposed to you know 23 which were uh an llc2 LLC transaction meaning that it was a home that was purchased from you know another LLC entity um so moving forward on to the some highlights from the public survey we had 322 completed responses um and we have found that you know the top three housing concerns um as were chosen by the the respondents in the survey were one the lack of affordable rental options two the need for more affordable homes for firsttime home buyers and three the impact of off-campus student housing neighborhoods and we had found that the top three housing initiatives um that they had um responded were one creating housing with a mix of price ranges two encouraging more housing options um Citywide and three helping people stay in their current uh Housing and Community as they age and we you know look so that these concerns and in initiatives they're um they're just like they're the general response overall you know from um you know from the 322 uh participants that we um organized in this data set as we but we wanted to look more into you know specific groups or demographics as well and the survey that we had uh created um has a feature where we can sort out and filter that information so we you know looked at the responses um from the owners the homeowners in town as well as Runners and looked at what differences or um you know how one group of people might respond to these questions compared to what another group might um say so we had found that 82% of renters say that they have experienced cost burdens in the past year um compared to just 31% % of homeowners um 72% of homeowners want to stay in amers um and that group emphasized low property taxes and the walkability of town um as necessary factors that would compel them to stay um whereas 54% of renters um say that they want to stay in agent ammer and they placed more importance on expanded community service and U as well as the availability of smaller homes um and we looked at the responses from non-student residents um so I I should note uh for these groups renters versus owners this is inclusive of of students um in fact approximately 92 out of uh I believe it was 92 out of uh this 322 responses were in fact um students who had responded um so we filtered that out to find you know information or responses from non-student residents and that 32% had said that they are likely to move out of Amber within 5 years citing High housing costs 46% had experienced cost burden at least once in the past year and um 68% of low income residents um in for the the purpose of um you know this survey we Define low-income residents as those households earning $30,000 or less um they say that it is important for them to stay as a age um and they site um similar things as um the previous responses they cite housing affordability expanded community service more Transit options and accessibility improvements to their home as their most important factors and that their um the most important housing initiatives to uh to lwi income non-student residents is uh the preservation and maintenance of existing affordable housing so similarly we wanted to look how students responded 71% said that they were cost burdened all year round so every single year in the past year they you know would have to pay over 30% of their income on housing um and there was actually a very strong consensus on um or for more smaller multifam and mixed use departments in ammer and that they had felt that there was actually you know a lack of these type of housing um in town and lastly uh we found that for multi-generational and Senior households uh most residents living in multigen multigenerational household survey would like to add an accessory unit um accommodate additional residents or have already done so and that 18% of residents age 65 and over intend to move to a different house within ammer within five years um and the the most popular reason being that they want to downsize or um live in accessible housing okay so moving onto um the uh the last meeting earlier this week um we had a few stations around the room where we had specific prompts that we had um on posters and that we had asked participants to respond to one of them being a visual preference survey [Music] um it looks it seems to us that you know Cottage cluster or cottage style developments um two to three family housing and accessory dueling units being the top three most popular types of housing um as far as uh votes are concerned and um you know Mobile Homes single family homes and larger uh new construction of uh you know larger multif Family Apartments being the three um the three most polarizing types of housing in town the other uh activity station were um we had we had written out four uh problem statements or prompts and we had asked them to um you know respond with goals or ideas for how they think would best address these problem statements um you know obviously this is a very limited selection and you know not inclusive of all the problems that we've heard in ammer but um with that said um these are just a few examples for each um so for the lack of affordable housing people have um noted that they would like you know smaller better design apartments for the multi-generational Community increasing inclusionary zoning um to address the shifting demographics of um the Aging population and um student uh children um under 18 population declining um they feel like it would be best addressed if the town were to increase funding for public schools and that the town needs to find ways to attract families and not just retirees um and for limited student housing options you know people were on you know opposite sides of the spectrum one saying that there should be more on campus housing um and another person saying that on campus housing is not you know the issue I'm saying that you a lot of students in fact want to live off campus same with you know professors um grass students and that there you know needs to be more mixed home communities um for know people with moderate incomes so these are just you know verbatim from um you know what people had responded with um I do have the posters I do have the files I I happy to share you know with you all the um the complete responses and um the full list of responses uh that have been submitted by people last or earlier this week and another station we had done was a a simple mapping activity we had asked um where people think um which types of Housing Development would they would like to see so the very uh dark red stickers uh represent you know more dense housing like larger multif Family Apartments the orange are you know smaller medium multif family and um yellow being single family homes and and this you know this shows where people think or feel that they would like to see um you know certain types of housing develop development in town with a lot of you know very dense multi family housing um onor near campus the downtown and then you as you go further down south amers there's quite a few multif family housing so and here are um a list of past and current goals of uh the previous plans related to housing and ammer um the most recent being the Housing Trust action plan and we have the five goals from the uh the housing policy in 2021 as well as the uh the production Target number that was um developed in the uh housing production plan in 201 13 um this is sort of just to give you a sense of you know what what we're sort of looking for um as far as when we're developing goals you know giving you a good idea of um you know we want to have you know ambitious but also very realistic goals and um that we're not at this point of the project we don't want to look too much into you know specific action items but more so um you know just overarching ideas that um you know what you're aiming for as a town and as a community um and so with that said I uh yeah I'll I'll leave it back to you guys oh thanks Tony um um and F fun to see a little uh of the initial feedback from um Tuesday and and some of the some more survey data synthesized um yeah why why don't you know I see at least one hand um Tony maybe you can stop sharing so we can we can see the whole thing um but you know I think we're gonna have some space for dialogue in a couple minutes but if folks have specific questions for Tony um Carol I I see your hand there um I just wondered and looking at all those statistics at the beginning about percentage of this and that and the other thing there were 322 respondents and I wondered of those respondents how many were renters and how how many were homeowners because that seems like it might be relevant to all those other percentages sure um I actually I can't recall off the top of my head how many exactly there were for each but um I'll note that down and I can uh I can get back to you um uh after this it wasn't quite like 5050 but I think it was something to the around 6040 kind of inform I looked at it earlier today today okay something else um and I think there was a fair amount I 60 being renter 6040 renter owner no I think the opposite I think I a majority of of respondents I think were homeowners sorry or it may have or in truth I may have been looking at single family units versus perhaps I shouldn't have commented now I'm I'm pretty sure was a little more than a majority were uh were homeowners thank you Greg um I can look into that as soon as I can uh yeah yes Paul uh yeah I think Greg maybe I shouldn't have commented um I was really interested in the LLC data and I'm just I'm I really want to dig into that or hopefully can spend some time in the future about that and how's that compared to other communities like I'm not sure we can if anybody else has that kind of data are there any metrics that are out there in terms of what's happening in the bigger World other than just amoris does that does that is that normal is it so I mean it would seem significant to me but and I think that's a thing that's a lot of concern that we hear a lot about terms of rental housing and student housing and stuff like that so I just want to bookmark that one um right yeah thank you for the question there's no um um very widely used data set that is even available that looks specifically into llc's um that sort of information is very Town specific and um found for the most part in the assessor records and so one would really have to dig into that and look at that have you worked with any other communities that have collected that data or do you know of anybody who's else I mean it's not we're not it's not unique to us obviously but right um me personally no but Judy Barrett has um not looked at that or hasn't have a system for you know looking at that um you know widely but in her experience it's just something that each town has to look into I'm just curious if I just I'm looking for context like is that is that a large number or small number I don't know um you may not answer that but I just he if there's any in any any in the planning World who's doing that kind of work sure um yeah I guess I don't have a you know very good answer for you right now sure no I don't expect that yeah thank you thank you this Grover um well I will just say Paul that I know that the town I used to live in Alam California had mandated a rental registry that then would note that so I think any town that has a rental registry you could then see which of those llc's sold um so I know the data is possible when you have towns that have rental Registries mandated yeah so we have that so be curious what we have in our database for the rental registration program interest great great point also I'll say that the Washington Post because sharing things The Washington Post um actually published an article this week about um uh aart rental landlords that are using algorithms to raise rents up and up and up and we had one community in our town uh using that so anyway we there's it was only one whereas other towns had many um llc's that were using that or businesses that were using that so um that's another thing we could that I noted and I wanted to say in the public record since we're on that conversation um but I actually wanted to yes thank you for getting that LLC data and seeing it finally it feels like it's been a lot of talk and and narrative and rhetoric about it and having the numbers is helpful it's not an insignificant number right and also it's not the majority so that was helpful to see and um I also I was curious about at some places in the presentation you were able to break down the responses by the these was this was the whole number of say renters who responded and then this is the number of non students who answered and I'd be curious if we could see that number about the gap between area median income and homeownership numbers simply because I know most undergrads aren't looking to buy a home um right so what would it look like if we looked at non- student Ami in terms of the home ownership Gap because that's a really significant number um and yeah I just want to I would love for us to know realistically what kind of a a difference we're looking at in terms of people who would actually be potentially in the market to buy a home and what is possible that's if it's if it's really 300,000 or is it more like 200,000 or like like if we're looking to help make up that Gap okay yes we can um I I've noted that down and we um you know that is certainly something that would be valuable and worthwhile to to look at so thank you I'll just jump in to point out I was did a quick little research the article that I found has 2021 data or Massachusetts and it was um 9% of single families were sold to uh llc's or other business entities in 2020 wa can can you us say where yeah um uh I uh I just sent the link to to Greg so Greg can forward it on to you okay thank you other questions for for Tony or uh Greg you want to um uh bring up your uh conversation Che for sure and just to follow up a couple things um uh it was it was actually split pretty down the middle it was rent 45 uh percent and own uh 47% uh and then a a small fraction of folks uh in student housing on on campus housing presumably I think um um and then another just quick um contextual thing I wanted to add um and I'm limited in my Tony has a data set he can slice I only have a big PDF download at this point so it limits my ability to see but just today I was looking at a lot of um the written responses we we offer two fields for um folks just offer some you know some narrative input um and the thing I wanted to note uh Tony put a survey highlight about one of the biggest issues being student impacts right and so there were many many comments about student impacts written you know in the narrative Fields um but you know and some of them were as we often hear about you know concerns around you know like student behaviors and and how that changes Dynamics neighborhoods but some of them were just about affordability right you know um uh I you know at least half I'd say of the comments I was scanning today were about affordability so sometimes when people are talking about student impacts they are talking primarily about affordability and they're not just talking about you know and and I think that puts us puts it in a slightly different context so just wanted to share that detail um but um yes so kind of moving kind of having going from some of this input we've got and some of this oh couple we got maybe a few more questions about the presentation alra please um so I guess this is a followup to Greg's statement I'm just wondering if the affordability is like concern that students can't afford housing or concern that because of the way that they're pricing student rentals and maybe renting by the bedroom that that is been making it more difficult for other people to a obtain any housing because nobody wants to rent to a family that can only pay three grand when you could get like six grand for a by the bedroom scenario um so yeah so the observation I was making was that um many of of the folks in the written comments who were offering concern around uh around student impacts were relating it specifically to affordability you know like what you just described um you know which to me I interpret as an affordability concern you know not just a you know we don't like young people you know concern which is a different Dynamic sure just for clarity she described two scenarios do you mean the second one that students cuz I had the same question so the concerns are that student housing is raising the cost of housing for everyone because students are being overcharged I mean I think the thing I often saw written was people talking about you know there there were some comments where it was like I have six student houses in my block and I don't like to live near those students right that was that was there but I just as often I was reading um I can't you know I or my neighbors can't compete with student you know with with student consumers to access a single family house or a you know a structure that would otherwise be suitable for uh for a non-student renting population so and I guess this is me reading comments it's not you know I I I don't have a statistical summary of them so I don't want to W this too much but I just I brought it up because I think it is um some of from the slide that Tony showed probably some of those folks you know who picked you know student impacts on neighborhoods off of a list some of those who wrote that is a big concern might not be saying we don't want students some of them might be saying we just that those students represent an affordability challenge which to me I I see separately K yeah please I'm I think would I just put this thing down so you could hear me um I I've also least anecdotally heard from students that St students can't find anything affordable to them to rent either so it's both that what what they do afford or what landlords can get pushes rents up so nobody else can really can afford it but students don't really there's a lot of students who don't have anything that they find affordable here so both things are true lots of those comments in there as well from people who are studying here as well that was also I mean the majority of the comments talk that I saw talked about affordability um um fewer of them talk about um you know quality of life stuff um so you know I guess I'm biased too but uh um but in that regard though um moving just to goals right and to you know how we can craft some so let me just bring a few slides up here um so and hopefully folks can see so basically where we are now in this process is you know all this you know Tech needs analysis data and you know public input which has been ongoing since August really um conversations and input that you all have offered and we'll move into um you know creating some goal statements um you know so tonight's task I don't think it's particularly productive to try and uh create an exhaustive list of goals and and Wordsmith everyone um I think rather you know my hope is that this group can uh you know share if you have strong feelings on on you know what you know what should be part of the goals that this is the time to kind of begin to stamp it with um your individual and especially the any you know combined trust consensus on what feels important to have as goals in this thing I would expect that you know if you know if if the trust comes up with two to four things that feel really important those would probably be part of um you know a bigger set of goals um you know which we'd eventually have and go into strategies but my thinking is that you know this is an opportunity to you know you know name what the important things are to all of you as kind of the uh you know one of the core the core housing Brain Trust in town um so uh so yeah so we're just hoping to get some you know some feedback from you all tonight on you know what feels important and what you know is important to you as individuals and as a group and you know what should be in the the the plan as goals I think my hope is that our goals are a little less generic than the housing policy goals that Tony shared before um and um and and tonight you're welcome to share very specific or very broad goals or whatever feels important we don't have to you know narrow it that way but Loosely speaking you know the idea here is that we're potentially aiming goals you know on you know who should be served or you know where in what neighborhoods might they be served you know what kind of homes might best serve them uh what you know Community capacities either internally or in collaboration with Partners in that the town have to add in order to uh you know to do better at housing um you know and so um and I these are basically intentionally broad domains and I think probably you know specific priorities would emerge Within These you know so an example you know might be you know folks who are um you know on the income side you know we might the group might have strong feelings on hey you know the town should you know have a named goal of serving you know uh you people of a certain income class you know in in the housing parland site you know like you know perhaps people very low income or perhaps there's a priority to serve you know people of you know of middle income Etc um you know what kind of characteristics perhaps we're focused on you know homes for uh you know for people who experience disabilities or people who are retail workers in our Stores um families or individuals or you know you know household structures you know aging households who might be focused on downsizing um you could offer feedback on locational ideas you know um and and as I mentioned and this might be you know a specific sites um we will have regardless a list of sites uh in the final document um you could or could not choose to waigh in tonight on that it might be you know let's prioritize connection to open space you know that kind of thing um and then you know again what kind of you know are there typologies or development types we should be prioritizing um you know rent versus ownership Etc um and then you know the you know sort of additive capacities and resources you know are there key entities that the town should really prioritize in engaging better um are there zoning strategies that you know feel vital um you know are there uh you know Services we should coordinate with you know Etc um so you know I think these are kind of the domains uh um I I don't we don't have to cover all of those those really just prompts for all of you um to kind of begin uh considering um and and naming a goal does not mean I think we're exclusive from um from from other goals right you know so I think if the trust feels strongly that um we should serve people of you know 30% Ami and really prioritize that as a name goal in the housing production plan that doesn't mean the town will have to exclude all others it's more a question of you know you know what are the things that feel really important to you all that's that's kind of where I'm I'm asking I'm starting tonight so maybe I'll just stop there and see if the my proposition even makes sense here uh and uh go from there and Carol will probably tell me pretty quickly whether or not it does go ahead all right so Carol's gonna break the ice we're we're trying to kind of weigh in on the approach of how to address you know the multifaceted housing crme to the town Carol my answer probably isn't going to fit any of the things that you said anyway so I thought I'd get it out of the way so you can get to whatever you really want to talk about I would like to see the town be incredibly more flexible in its attitude towards people who come with different ideas about how to do things I would like that's that's my biggest concern we aren't going to think of all the ways that something could be done and if we create something that makes more flexibility somebody with a piece of property where they want to develop something or other but it doesn't quite fit but it would make some housing that's more affordable than if we didn't say yes that ought to be able to happen that's the main thing I think is important can I just to land it a little bit or or or place it in something W without an example being restrictive and we won't hold you to it per se but is there an example that stands out well I the guy Sam that we were talking to the other the other what night was that anyway I mean he has a piece of property and he he wanted to build something with six bedrooms so he could charge less rent but he couldn't wasn't allowed I don't know the whole story and I don't want so I don't want to get I don't want to end up misquoting something but it's not only that there are other places where I know of people having wanted to and maybe this is this is now going to become easier the accessory dwelling units a lot of things are making that easier but it's hard there's a woman living near here in a ram shackly rundown place she had to move into the garage because she wasn't allowed to devel velop the house into two units so she moved into the garage and then rented it out as rooms to people because that's the only way she could do it there are people who have ideas of something to do but they get bollocked when they try to go through towns rigar roll in order to be able to do it and I I feel like they get they get this instead of let's see how we might make it work thank you yeah other other thoughts other uh kind of wish wish list type of views about how the Housing Solutions can unfold yes Erica so it's I'm probably in in Carol's space where for me the first thing is to think about what do I want uh Amis to look like and um you know having flexibility is really important and maybe those are some of the principles that we should State before we come up with a finite plan which is you know this may be a plan but our principles around Equity our principles are around you know wanting to see diversity of of types of buildings diversity of types of uh family configurations including students I mean I think you know when you start with the principles you get closer to the goals of how to actually get there uh and when you have a vision of what it is that you want um amers to look like and when I see all those different specific elements I think it's going to be so specific that um it might you know close out other ideas or or peoples or plac or types um and so I think you know pre you know so Preamble which I'm sure you know you guys have thought about this of here are the principles even though we're looking specifically at this because this is what we see as a gap right now in order to create that vision of Amherst that is inclusive that is diverse um in terms of Diverse Health in types diverse people uh that really supports those who uh would be able to work and live here uh study here um these are sort of the areas that we see as gaps but um it's not exclusive of other ideas yeah and to thank you Erica and to reiterate you know I don't see um either tonight's exercise or the goals you know when the final product you know I don't think our goal would be to say if it's not in the housing production plan you can't do it you know it's I think right now especially it's more an opportunity to say Hey you know if there are really important things you know that um that we want the town to prioritize you know especially with it's one thing when like oh somebody owns a property wants to develop it hopefully we can make it smoother to do you know but you know the trust has limited resources you know um we we're you know we're gonna the plan department will prioritize you know a finite number of things amidst a universe of things they could do you know I mean things like that I think that's where if there are you know things you feel really strongly about you know hopefully we can inform um you know the work over the next several years with those things well see seeing no hands I'll jump in I mean I think it's really important to continue to attract fam so that we keep our Public Schools full and the budget for the schools and the quality of the schools up um I also uh think that it's a you know priority to to keep older folks who want to stay in this town in around here because the cultural life of Amherst is you know has a median age of 70 still and and it's it's it's they're very important to this town um Grover yeah seeing that presentation I feel less compelled to talk about specific groups of people that the town should prioritize but more like it seems to me that there's a couple of like housing needs that would serve any number of communities or even communities that we don't imagine right now cuz this is for you know 20 30s like what is math you know it's a while from now and so we don't we don't you know La just had a thousand homes burn just in the last two days right like we don't actually know what our housing needs will be then and I think this is a good assessment of what's happening now and we can guess what's happening there but I think there's some clear things happening that need to be the priority like like stopping the meteoric rise of what it costs to own a home in ammer feels clear and um that a significant amount of renters are cost burdened which is true nationally but it's true here and really I mean 82% that number is wild so so there is a number of approaches or mechanisms that and policies that this town could take to get at that you could get the state to you know allow rent Caps or rent slowing right like there's all kinds of things that um we could do that might not be politically popular but they could be done and also it just seems clear that more to me that smaller homes and multif family homes or multiple homes on a plot of land is a priority no matter who it's serving so it's you know people didn't like the Big M multi family housing but a lot of people liked triplexes and cottage style right and I'm not saying those need to we need to be like these are all we build but um in terms of a strategy we know that having smaller homes and more homes on every plot of land will lower the cost so and then if you make them accessible which I didn't actually see any accessibility information in the presentation that would be helpful um but even a priority of increasing the number of homes that are accessible or or um or at least whatever the word is for like mostly accessible except for actual ada8 compliance um would go a long way both for people who become disabled who aren't Elders yet and the elders Aging in place so it seems to me that there's some very clear like housing priority interventions that will touch a lot of the needs and in terms of identity or groups that's not yet clear but um but you know when I was growing up a lot of college students lived in squats you know like like we don't know what college students will do to house themselves um but if we create more homes and um then the current model that we have which is charging $1,000 per room might be a legacy of the past and there might be something new that marches okay thank you Grover yes so densification and smaller and more accessible homes um uh Rob or Alger or Alex Paul uh reactions comments here yes uh please I just in one remark response to Grover is that in Municipal time 2030 isn't that far away how long it takes to get stuff done I mean it's like we need to be talking now and planning because it takes years we just I mean look at the work that is in process now it's going to be and it's still years away so I think that what the trust go job is is to say where where just to point the direction to go and so we know where we should prioritize it it keeps coming up what are your priorities in housing and I think this is what this is what this housing production plan is so valuable for because it's the only way the town is going to really articulate what it is that we the direction we want to go in whether it we we mentioned lots of different strategies and and just setting those priorities is the hardest thing for the town I think and I think that this is we've done a really terrific job on this committee to start that conversation but I think it is really the challenge is going to be to drive that to some conclusions and here's what we think is the top two or three things the top two or three strategies and I just you know I I do just want to say Greg has been phenomenal at making this a priority and moving it Forward he's really terrific at that so thank you Greg thank you Rob please um so I I think um you know we when we get in these groups we always talk about density increasing density or small houses um and and that's that seems like a great idea that seems like something that you know everyone should be able to support but then when when you get in practice it don't support it they don't want it next to them so so my my um take on that is that we should we should encourage and promote density when it's affordable when when what is created is Affordable so it's so um we should be able to make it so that the zoning bylaw can be stretched or or changed when what results is is Affordable units and that I think makes it more comfortable Mak more logical so the to to meet the the political opposition that crops up when its density or height on the block with the argument or the reality that what's coming is Affordable that's the way to make progress okay um I think so yeah Grover is your hand up again or is this from from okay uh Erica um so I'm thinking about all the data that was uh presented and um you know just thinking about you know some of the things that were stated just a while ago attract families which I think is is so important and students do have families so I think you know making it affordable for both uh families who live work study here is important um seniors I think that has been shown um with a senior study that we did uh with the senior center um that um seniors want to live you know they want to age in their homes or they want to downsize to smaller homes so I think you know building smaller homes on smaller plots is also really important and then creating density in terms of what Rob state is important so what I was thinking much more of what could the role of an H um housing production plan be is you have that map of Amherst and um people do that mapping activity but I think you know with all the data that we have is literally looking at places where we can actually recommend um maybe this is a great area where we can do small homes on small plots or this is a great area to increase like you know to have duplexes literally mapping that out as recommendations um as part of it I know that's going to the recommendation area but I think you know that what's the town's role is really to take that data and to think about um strategies and presenting it so people can look at that and get behind it um and so I think you know um I mean all these all these areas are priorities but literally looking for places where you can actually do it and it's doable and giving recommendations of how to do it in that area I think will get more people behind it getting into the strategy realm it's almost like pre-approvals of you know in perhaps in certain areas you know uh we heard Rob Williams talk about that uh a month ago the idea of pre-approved Adu stuff is happening in some parts of the country I wonder Tony Greg what um you know what has the feedback so far elicited for you as questions that that you would like feedback on at this time all right um do you mean like do we have any questions um yeah does hearing us talk Tony generate questions for you that you'd like us to give you feedback on um no not at this point I think um right now I I just want to listen and know first you know just take in and absorb um everything that you guys say and um you know yeah I think um this what whatever Greg is you know trying to do here is uh you know just going to be very helpful for us and um you know developing goals and um you know presenting it back to you as a as a group and um yeah I think I'll save my questions uh you know for later as what I'm trying to say okay yeah yeah go ahead yeah I mean I guess the noting that's approaching eight or whatever I want to uh one thing I'll say is we could hear the uh we have a few public attendees in the space now um I don't know if we want to hear from anybody who's in the room um might be a good juncture for that um and I'm not and it's possible folks are you know multitasking too but if anybody is in the audience and wants to to weigh in and uh this is always a window and you people folks can raise hands later on too that's fine but um um but yeah no I mean I think you know this is a good start you know and I I I think um you know and I think when we're in the realm of goals and not necessarily strategies yet like you know I you know I guess you all are surprisingly sort of uh disciplined about kind of staying in the go realm you know um and I you know I thinking of you know Grover you kind of I kind of interpret in part what you one of your comments is you know look at the affordability problem and find routes to solve it you know rather than you know solve it this way or solve it that way you know I and I and I think you know density is you know certainly you know you kind of the most basic step towards that you noted it as well but um but I think um you know this is helpful and I think you know we'll hopefully layer on well to you know some of what Tony's already gathered at the other events go ahead yeah I mean I was gonna say respond to say I hope my comments came through as it feels clear to me what our goal should be we should yeah do them we should set them and then do the hard work of doing them for sure for sure um you know and I think um you know I have I have one um question you know and I think you know we've gone um back and forth in this a little bit I don't know that we settled at a staff level um but from the goal you know so the the you know there is a regulatory framework for this uh from the state um which uh spells out a a sort of prescribed um annual goal um which is like a you know it's like a certain percentage of our existing housing stock you know but it doesn't really relate to need at all it's just you know it's based on like you know the state's idea of what perhaps a reasonably applicable goal might be across all towns in Massachusetts um you know when when the trust created some unit goals uh we I think based it more in if we really stretched and everything came together um you know and and and we caught a few lucky breaks you know this is what we could get done as the trust or this is what we could have our hands in as the trust um I think it's still open question how we name our unit production goals for this document it could reflect a you know a reasonable a sort of similar Approach at the Town level scale so you know what you know if things go perfectly well and we catch some lucky breaks what could the whole town get done um and and these would be affordable units we're talking about here um uh you know or another way to create numbers you know uh would be to name you know do our best estimation of the units that we need based on the need we we've identified you know which would be significantly larger numbers you know um uh you know and uh and also probably you know probably much more p in the Sky you know you know if if we're applying realism to it but I'm curious if folks have thoughts on how we should represent those numbers you know it's it's more of a messaging question in a way than a practical one but you know would you like to see the need represented or kind of the Practical possibility represented go ahead a clarifying question I'm not sure can you put your your sorry sorry I'm not sure when you talk about it the housing production plan is the town's production plan right it's not the trusts so it is going to say what the town thinks it should do I'm confused when you talk about it it feels like it's I'm getting confused by whether we're trying to come up with the trust plans or the towns and they don't seem like they might be exactly the same and so I'm just trying to clarify what we're exactly trying to do in your description of what we're trying to sure so the presumably you know if the trust has a certain capacity the town has that number plus more right you know I mean presumably there will be there'll be some units the town you know develops that the trust won't be involved in you know probably will be involved in a lot of them or most of them you know um uh but so I I guess I'm asking should we represent you know what's reasonably doable or another way to come at it might be to say Hey you know there are this many you know cost burden renters at this income level um and if if amorist were a totally affordable place this is the deficit of units right that deficit would represent probably a significantly larger number than kind of what uh what we could you know program for if that makes sense um or what the state would uh require of us so to speak um they don't technically require anything but they want the plan to um you know have a certain number which is like it's like half a percent of your housing stock a year or something like that um or maybe folks don't have thoughts on this at all and that's no I I do have thoughts but let's hear Grover first well to your question of is this a messaging question the Comsat is to whom are we communicating because that would really inform how we message it so my question back to you is is like is this about how the report itself is written up which means that you know every town counselor that comes on will hopefully read it every person who joins every housing board will read it and the reporters will read it probably not too many citizens will read it um right so like is it that or is it about how the problem is presented I don't know if this has come before Town Council yet for example like or you know I guess it's like I would present the presentation that Tony just gave felt great for me as the audience as like a slightly wonky um housing person and yeah if it if it if we're trying to solve for like how do we get as much done that needs done without public opposition it was Slash with public support then that's a different question because then it's like presenting the information in a different format like I I see there's a a reporter on the call now but like yeah like how how are we going to tell the story in the media about the needs certainly but then also it's one thing to say we have this big need but but I know from my work and my research the vast majority of people don't think that anything can happen to change it like they feel very despairing that there's actual Solutions so then in terms of the work of presenting the housing production plan do we present it as the superhero like or do we do you to whoever is writing it write it as like actually there's a ton of opportunities and we're going to lay this out in our next section of the strategies that we're and goals that we're taking up okay is what's the stock answer on the audience for the production plan I mean Paul's comments earlier suggested that it's almost the tal itself the bodies of the Town having kind of a common goal yeah I mean I I would say that's why I'm just like processing you know Grover's very good questions there um I would say the full document is traditionally and Tony even might have thoughts on this too you know yes it's for that internal audience or that that semi- internal audience of board members and you know that lyy of folks grw over named um uh you know perhaps you know uh folks who are housing Professionals in the region you know we have one on you know the audience as well um you know um you know but I think there's also um and and much of what my my gut reaction to many of the comments we're getting is is that you know I think there's there is an opportunity for communication to the greater public too I think that is um as far as I can tell all a less common use of these documents um but um that doesn't mean it's not a valuable effort either so yeah so I guess the but this direct answer to Grover is that you know the traditionally used internally among those bodies um what will use it for now I'm kind of crunching harder on that and I'm I'm hesitant to say if I have a strong answer of what's most important if I can add um so what would the problem be of having both um the prior housing production plan did show the deficits and it was always somewhat overwhelming um and it did State what the goal had to be each year in order to get to the total goal and uh it couldn't be achieved because it wasn't really realistic with the resources that existed and so my thought was and I don't know if this is appropriate for housing production plan but you can have what your Gap is and you can State you know ideally with the resour you know with these types of resources that we would need in order to meet it we would be able to achieve it but in Lo of that in in terms of the resources we have right now this is probably the more realistic goal in terms of how much we can do each year um and maybe hope that you know that there might be more resources in the future but uh with regard to the existing resources unless anything changes this is what is uh considered realistic for the town to achieve okay I I mean I I think the data about need is is the essential kind of foundation for the report and is the motivation for whatever the goals are even though of course they not going to answer 100% of the need so I I think that that that's that's the datab based part of the story that that makes whatever you know we need to do so compelling all right if I can just add one more thing um so what what I mean by resources changing um the fact that we actually were able to have a position like yours Greg has really increased capacity to look at the problems and the resources and do more so if we were able to have more resources then we might be able to do even more so having you know a plan that says you know this is the need this is what we could achieve if we had all the resources we needed in order to do it you know if the town had you know a whole department of Gregs who could be innovators who could work with developers who could find you know funding from the state Etc and really move things very quickly versus these are the resources we have right now and if things don't change this is the realistic number that's really GNA and I think illustrating that story for various stakeholders you know is you know is I think a worthy you know objective for the for the document so it's helpful um all right well I'm I feel like I have a good amount of stuff to chew on and and probably a a followup meeting I want to pitch gr over but Grover do you want to wait I just wanted to say for the record that I liked Erica's idea of presenting like two lines like here's what would the ideal would be and here's what um we can do with our current projections because y I think that is the most useful way well speaking of what we can do um let's segue into uh subcommittee reports um if if we're if we're ready uh Gregor Tony any any kind of concluding remarks before we move on um well I want to say you know thank you for sharing your thoughts I you know thank you Greg for you know leading this discussion um yeah there's definitely a lot to absorb and um I I do like your ideas of having you know two lines representing you know one the realistic goals and one being the other whether being um you know what you're you know hoping or striving to achieve um I think you know my only thought on that is um like if you were to come up with a goal or a target number then you know that number would inherently sorry I'm still getting over a cold so excuse my voice but um that Target number would inherently um cons consider resources that are out there and that the town will want to pursue in order to you know meet that goal and um you know that can also many you know people can consider that as you know might want to consider that as a know realistic you know action for um you know the town of do or you know involving and collaborating with other stakeholders but um I I I think personally I you know would like to think large but um and think and be ambitious but um it's also important to you know you know be practical as well so those those are just my thoughts but so I think being ambitious is practical um yeah yeah and I yeah agree you know and I guess maybe the the thing that I'm sort of sitting with here is you know as we transition in the next piece but um you know is I think there is a role for the Trust In in bridging those lines a little bit and you know especially in our committee structure with a an education you know an engagement entity now you know I think um like spreading a message of possibility you know uh like you know and and kind of counteracting um you know what Grover aptly noted you know which is what national Daya reflect that people of people tend to think it's not fixable um but I think finding ways where we can highlight the things that are fixable um that can be a really compelling role for the trust I think you know along with our our core work so yeah I like your um your thought on messaging to Grover I think that is very um that's not talked about a lot and uh it's a very under rated uh strategy for plans like these um you know it can really make or break the success of a plan so um that's you know something that the town and uh know everyone involved really has to think about and consider right all right well thank you so much for joining us once again Tony uh you're you're becoming an honorary member of of the team here I appreciate it that's always lovely being here um it's pleasure to speak with you and uh I you know look forward to you know continue working with you all so okay excellent thank you EXC thank you right have a good night all right good night um all right so let's uh let's let's hear what's what's going on with the the subcommittees um uh I guess what's imminent is the education subcommittee's uh debut maybe you can kind of fill us in uh algra and uh and Rob [Music] yeah um can I can I share my screen I don't know if um you should be able to be able to okay let's see so we have this little let's can you see a flyer that looks like affordable housing yes yeah okay um so we have a meeting in two weeks um at ammer Town Hall and and there will be guest on and myself from the trust Laura Baker from Valley Community Development Tom kelman from homee housing Keith ferry from wayfinders and then John Hornick from previously the chair of the trust and each person will have a few minutes to talk about specific um pieces of the affordable housing puzzle and then we'll have kind of a Q&A brainstorming session um so hopefully everyone can make it or attend by Zoom um and that will be I'll also I don't know if I actually have sent a copy of this everyone so I can make sure that we send that out um so that everybody has that information um but we actually had postponed our small committee next meeting until tomorrow so I was racking my brain trying to think of why I didn't know what I was supposed to report and it's because we haven't met since the last time we gave you an update so other than the big thing that we're doing there's nothing else to report I would say um okay and any uh anything that we can do to help you ahead of that event um I don't think so I think actually today's presentation was pretty helpful to see some of the things that had come up in the surveys that were um talked about especially in terms of the affordability Gap and the percentages of cost burdened renters and homeowners in town so I think um you know I think a lot of what I will at least be putting forward isn't going to be my own thought because it's it's going to be brought from a lot of the data and we're lucky again to have somebody like Greg and have the bar Planning Group doing all this work for us right now because we actually have really recent data that we can utilize so I'm grateful for that okay and just on that point um Greg maybe we can get John Hornick whatever data you're comfortable sharing in advance I'm sure he'd be interested and it would inform his comments sure um awesome okay Erica I was just curious about how uh the publicity piece is going in terms of getting as many diverse members of our community to participate that is a good question I know that there was a list of people that um I think John has his usual suspects that he sends things out too um and I know that the league was supposed to be sending things out to their um email list and I think if I share the flyer so I'm G to write that down share flyer um with everybody on this call as well as the members of the um Community safety and social justice committee which is going to be one of the co-sponsors in name um hopefully there will be some trickle out maybe car's speak to her list but yeah I was going to say if you say if you send it to me I can also send it to our 100 or something uh housing friends friends of affordable housing fabulous there do we have a connection with the ERS bulletin because it's widely distributed it's free and there's a great little piece and I don't can't remember the woman's name but I love reading her piece because she has all of the activities around all of a amorist in around the area um but it's uh I think it'd be great to get it in there the the current and the Indie as well are have events um uh pages and I will double check with John um to see if he had done any of those kinds of press releases and if not I can certainly okay excellent and we can we can drill in tomorrow too at with the three of us are meeting tomorrow so we can kind of strategize in some of those nitty-gritties too um I think our hope here you know since you know the the league had kind of made the original invite our hope is that they can be a you know a driving force behind Outreach um so we can follow up with them too then okay great I think this would all just like in a note and the head of me for now be like as as this becomes a thing that we might do again um these are the good things to work through like oh press that's important like how do we actually make sure people are getting there um and that reminds me also I want to look at the flyer and see if the zoom link is actually on there because that would be helpful um so these These are the sorts of things that like once you do it you remember to do it the next time so thank you okay it's the it's the debut uh okay thank you leer and Alex um and Rob um anything to to share about uh the the funding task the subcommittee so you're asking us to remember something that happened last year okay you put it that way um I don't think we have any okay all [Music] right um then moving to our development uh committee um uh Grover Carol and I with with Greg um we I think there are some things to share um I'm I'm happy to start by sh sharing some of the details about the uh the bank I um contacted which is interested in lending for Adu construction um so I I reached out to a number of Banks and had a conversation with uh lighthouse out of Maine which has gotten its National Charter and in particular wants to expand in Massachusetts and actually has the ambition of funding 500 adus in Massachusetts this year and so they're very excited to hear from us and if you're curious I can tell you the the structure of how they finance adus I don't know if if this group would like to get into some of those details yeah okay um all right so they are willing to lend up to 90% of future value with the Adu constructed um max loan amount 500,000 uh two to 300,000 is their sweet spot um for this to work it means you probably have to have some equity in your home um because their experience is that building Adu does not translate dollar for dollar to value on the home um in other words for you know the dollar that you spend in construction U may not translate into a dollar of increased value on the the appraised value that they use to decide how much they'll lend um it's a fixed uh closing rate um interest only is charged during the construction period of up to 9 months um you can do other projects so if you want to build a a garage while you're building an Adu they have no problem with uh funding that as well um uh it's a 30-year loan um so after the N9 month interest only period it's a fully advertised mortgage and they are willing to if you're going to rent the Adu and I suppose if you were moving into your Adu and renting your home they credit you 100% of fair market value in figuring out your debt to income ratio of rental of rental income you mean the rental income yeah they the they they credit you 100% of fair market value of of what you expect to rent for when they're figuring out how your debt to income ratio and so you know I've got a contact here and and and so on so we've got details they're more than willing to come down to do an event so um I guess the ambition I see is for us to have an education event where we connect uh folks in town who might be interested some lenders and some Builders and some people maybe from uh from yeah from from the planning uh uh group as well um to uh see if we can make something happen and the um I I need to reach back out to Rob uh from UMass but my my thought is to try to pinpoint what are a couple of neighborhoods that have the right demographic of seniors and that many of the homes can easily um fit the bill for an Adu uh to see if we can put something together um neighborhood your neighborhood my neighborhood great so um uh let's talk in our next meeting which is coming up about how to um start talking to folks and um I also have a um I'm connected to a cdfi in Boston that does lending for affordable housing they won't lend to individuals but um I'm going to talk to them about the possibility of them coming in and kind of stacking on top of a a mortgage from a place like Lighthouse to uh possibly um provide additional funding that would make the project more feasible and get the homeowner to commit to affordability in the rental so that's one one thread in our development um conversation there's also threads uh involving um you know emis college I don't know if there's anything specific to you'd like to to share Greg in that conversation um just that I think um uh a representative is gonna join us in our next meeting U from from mamers college um which is um exciting I think uh so um and I guess we're we're still uh is there information that we still want to try to get from the town about available Lots yeah yeah so we we have um actually have some some stuff from Tony that he began parsing um so that's it's pretty raw um you know and so I think uh you know we you know we have um the the ones that are Town own is a little more of a manageable file the ones that are uh just vacant and and you know irregardless of um uh of ownership that's a little more of a unwieldy uh data set at this point but um and then um yeah we're hoping also to get some data I mean it should be possible it is possible just question if can we get it by our next meeting but um getting data on um existing adus in uh in mamers um and both just understand what's there you know and and what people have been successful with and and perhaps also to maybe pull in some homeowners you know who might or perhaps renters even you know who are you know living in an Adu and you know just um to hear about their process and experience you know that folks like that might might be a cool addition to an event perhaps hey right we we we may have a um short meeting are there are there Town updates to share Greg um yeah so the um uh yeah the M it's gonna sound kind of similar um the one thing I'll say is that there is actually going to be another event on the HPP um uh which um will probably be smaller in scale I'm guessing than Tuesday was but um we're working there's a grad student who uh she a PhD student actually who's trying to apply a certain scenario planning practice um and so you know she's working with us in Barrett so that will be probably on the 11th of February perhaps on the 18th the following week um and detail final details are still coming together on that we're trying to make sure that's um you know successful and we're working with a you know a very you know very talented student but you know sort of different structure so we're kind of trying to cross te and eyes there um um wayfinders uh development is um at the ZB zba again tonight um uh you know the word I've gotten for a while now is that it's almost done but I've been hearing that for a while so you know I'm hesitant to say uh it's almost done because that's kind of what I've been hearing but you know questions of you know what the building looks like are done and it's more about the management plan now is what they're into um and I you know my my understanding is they're close and the draft order of of conditions is basically complete um so once they uh once they have it there won't be much you know writing to do uh you know or you know the the attorneys have already I guess we we've written everything or the planning Department's written everything the attorneys have already looked at it and then it's just a question of negotiation between wayfinders in the zba on the final details of that so Carol go ahead you know if there's still if the time frame is still going to work out for them to go to the fund I did ask yeah and and and so my my understanding you know you know when I spoke with uh Jamie a couple weeks ago he said if they voted tonight uh for sure um uh the as far as I could tell maybe folks on staff were a little less confident that there would be a vote tonight or or a little less certain I don't think tonight's the be all end all um but uh you know I think I think there's another month month and a half or so um before they uh they have to have it I guess technically they could apply without every Last Detail in place apparently we did something in the past like that but I think it's better for them to have a proper um you know a proper permit comprehensive permit in hand uh before they go to the state I you know I think that can still happen I I did ask Jamie and he you know he was not ringing um alarm Bells uh on that so you know um I guess I would say if if you hear alarm bells and there's something that we should go to to do something you'll let us know right yeah I will um you know if if it seems you know and and it might be good to um you know I'll I'll get an update uh probably Monday on what happened tonight at the zba and um you know maybe I'll just zip a quick line either way to the whole Trust on on that um here um and then um the you know heads up is you know we are uh imminently re-releasing a RFI for uh or no I'm sorry seeking written quotes for the South ammer property um to do a a scoping process and like what the best housing model is down there um I I know folks had questions of like what the function of that is um uh and and I think it's uh it was suggested to me that it was um in order to identify to sort of narrow the typology uh that that that might be down there or the type of um housing probably affordable but I suppose it they might recommend otherwise um that would inform an eventual RFP for that site as well um and then finally we are getting to work on an RFP for the VFW site which would happen sooner obviously um uh so that's uh that's in the works as well and the hus have that um out in the work World um in the spring like we're targeting April 1 to have it published er um any word on the CPA funding yes thank you um so the CPA uh voted and did and recommended uh that we receive $300,000 so um sitting here I think we got did we get 250 last year or was it 300 last year as well I think we got 300,000 even though so yeah so I don't I don't believe Council has voted on it yet um but my my understanding is Council rarely Alters what CPA recommends um and so we went into that I think you know with the voice strategy that we would ask for more you know noting that it's it's been uh reduced in the past so we um so that's that's where that is algra yeah this is like a super specific question but do you happen to know like the size of the lot in South ammer off hand I do not so I mean I think it's a fairly sizable I mean I I think it's around an acre you know in that range you know it's not gigantic um but it's not itty bitty either so you know um P you yes Erica I just wanted to make a comment which was um you know in the past year thinking about how much we've been able to achieve which we have a lot but how long it takes for things to move forward just want to reiterate I think the HPP should have an inspirational number but this should also be a realistic number because things take forever to move forward um and I think you know the role of the trust and the town is to be a catalyst to get these things moving and is moving as fast as we can um so I I just want to really reiterate that we should have an inspirational number but we should also have a number that we think might be a little bit more realistic with regard to the resources we actually have okay okay um is there anything that has come up uh that wasn't on the agenda that you'd like to share any any observations or anything else to bring up uh before we adjourn our meeting I just had a question sorry I don't not sure if you were not somebody else um I know I believe we still have uh Grace with us um I'm wondering if representative Dom um is thinking about uh still supporting the real estate transfer fee because it is in study and often what happens with legislation that's in study is that it never moves out of there and so that is one of the areas that our subcommittee is looking at and so I just wondering if Grace has any any thoughts on that or knows anything that she can that uh Grace can share with us hi everyone can you hear me all right yes gotcha so um first of all I just wanted to wish you all happy New Year great to see you all on the new year um in terms of the uh sorry I'm just trying to pull some stuff up uh Grace would you like me to promote you to a panelist i I didn't want to just pop you on the screen without asking um can I no that I I can um I I don't have anything to show so it's okay just uh talking but um pull some stuff up for my reference just because you know we're in the middle of um of Bill filing right now so there's a lot of different things going on but um yeah essentially I I believe for the home rule petition any sort of home rule Petition of that sort um I think that we are in uh the representative is in direct conversations with the um town about that and basically once the town confirms yes we want this to be refiled um then she can go forth and do so on behalf the town but I just think that that is the um that's still being coordinated at the moment thank you Grace of course I'm happy to also raise that um check in with her on that and um get back to you all forever just wanted to note that the annual homelessness point in time count was released since our last meeting and the numbers increased 18% nationally I haven't gotten a chance to look at the amoris numbers closely but um it's taking a moment to reflect on that and hope I imagine we'll be having conversations with that part of our um community in the months ahead but noting that thank you for sharing that uh legra oh you add your hand is that a false hand okay um well um I guess on uh last chance to bring anything up um otherwise we're ready for a motion to adjourn I I move that we adjourned okay actually point of process did we give community members time to raise something not just the board isn't that how the structure of the meeting is supposed to go um let's see any any uh uh I think it's just Grace and Tony who are here with us actually at this point I see so if uh you want to share anything else please let us know um I I suspect oh Grace please still have your hand up oh sorry I that was an accident I didn't realize lowered it but once again happy New Year everyone okay happy New Year thank you so much for joining us again start interrup Gan I just no not at all don't want to remember just it's good to get get if someone shows up to one of these meetings they deserve to speak to adjourn uh okay we got to so uh all in favor of adjourning okay everyone nice to see you have a great night and uh keep up the good work in your committees good night everybody thanks everyone by