Okay, we are now recording. >> Hey everyone. Um, so Lori's not going to be here, so I am chairing tonight. Bear with me. Um, since I haven't done this before. Um, but I'll do my best. Um, I
do not know from heart this little spiel that Lori gives to, um, begin, so we'll skip that. Um, and we'll go right to the first item in the agenda. Um, I guess I should say it's a it's uh it's the April
8th meeting of the Energy and Climate Action Committee for the Town of Ammerst. The first item is to review and vote on the minutes from March 25th. Is that right? Yes, it is. Um, so has
everybody had a chance to look at them? Um, they were sent to us in the packet. So I don't know if people have any corrections. >> Don, if you'd like, I could screen. >> Oh, yeah. That would be great because I am terrible at trying to screen share.
>> Okay, just give me one moment. Okay, you should be seeing them. Can you see them? Okay. >> Yes. >> They're small, but yes, I can see them. >> Yes, I can see them >> there. I made them bigger. >> Okay, >> great. So, I'll scroll and you can all
read along. I'll try not to go too fast. Okay. I think they look fine. So, I will move to approve the minutes as they are. >> Okay. You need a second. >> I'll second them.
>> Okay. and your voice vote in no particular order. Allison >> abstain >> roof. >> Yes. >> Door. >> Yes. >> Missing. I can't hear you, Michael. >> Sorry. Yes.
>> And lang. >> Yes. >> Okay. Minutes are approved. >> Um, now we're in the public comment section of the meeting. I don't Is there anybody
there other than our panelist? Um, so if there's anyone in the audience who would like to make a comment or ask a question, please feel free to electronically raise your hand. Okay, Bernard, you could go ahead and
unmute yourself. >> Okay, can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> Don't know if you can see me. Hello. I'm I'm really just here to listen. Um, Bernard Brennan, I've put my name forward to to join this group. Um, so I thought it prudent to to maybe jump in a
little early if I if I'm accepted uh to see what you're doing and what you're planning and how I might help. Thank you. That's wonderful. Good news and glad to hear. >> Thanks, Bernard. Okay. Uh and now Tatsuya has just
arrived as well. >> Great. Awesome. Um the next item is the sustainability festival which is coming up on April 25th. Um, and
just kind of a general discussion. I take it that uh everything is kind of set up where we stand. Do are there still people signing up or um I unfortunately can't be there. Um I think as I advised you, my boss, my new boss
um is being consecrated that day. Um which means she's going to be made bishop in the uh Episcopal church. and I'm her lawyer and I have to be there. So, that's the way it goes. So, >> that's a great reason not to be there. Um, sorry, Don, but I just realized we
don't we haven't assigned someone to take the minutes. >> Oh, that is Yes. >> Yeah, I sort of started, but might have missed some things, but I'm happy to do it. >> Emily, thank you for bailing me out of >> I just >> I have some notes as well, and we can
fill them in. You're good. >> Okay. Thanks. Yeah, I can I can take over. Okay. Uh, the only thing I um I I think at this point we just put the sustainability festival on the agenda just as we get closer just to make sure we have what we need or if there's any
um additional comments if someone has to drop out for whatever reason. But I think we're in pretty good shape. So, um, we still have at least one more meeting literally 3 days before the event. So, um, don't drop out then. So,
I think we're good. >> And and just so that I'm clear, Stephanie, because I will be at that meeting, that's also the um discussion from the local um colleges and universities about is that is that on the 22nd?
>> Yes, I believe so. >> Okay. All right. Um, so the next is to prepare for the upcoming meeting with Mindy Dom, which
as you recall is on a Tuesday, um, and not Wednesday. Um, remind me again, um, Stephanie, the date of that. It's Tuesday. >> So that's May 8th. >> May 8th.
>> Yep. And that one is at 5:30 p.m. >> Um Lori sent around a bunch of material. Um it it I think it's really important that all of us spend some time um putting together a list of questions um
or items of interest for Mindy so that um it's a productive uh session and it's worth her while come you know speak to us. I think it I mean I think from my perspective it makes
sense for for us to really have some questions as opposed to just hear um you know the talk that Mindy would kind of give in in so many um so many other gatherings where you know we've all
heard her speak whether it's at protests or or whatever. So I I I know that's high on Lor's list. I know she's sent around all that material on the um the energy the climate bill um that has uh
passed out of the out of the house but is now in the senate and the particular concern with um the reduction in um uh the reduction in allocations under the
budget uh for the massafe program. Um, is it worthwhile for us to have a kind of general discussion now of items of interest to people? Um, or is it simply, Stephanie, that we were going to or Lori was going to collect potential
questions, um, and and digest them? >> I think we could certainly have an initial conversation. And one of the things I wanted to point out, um, and I sort of knew about it, but I didn't really mention it at the last meeting because I didn't know more of the details and the specifics, but um, not
only is the mass save program, um, having reduced funding, uh, proposed in this bill, but also there is a threat to the green communities program and the climate leaders >> who >> program. So, and I can tell you um I
will read you uh a correspondence from one of my um fellow colleagues, another sustainability director in another community um who reached out to their state rep who said um if the bill were enacted as written
today, your interpretation is correct. Section 8 states that if the ACP fund in a given year exceeds 2% of projected revenues and energy costs are determined to be a burden to rateayers, then 70% of
the fund would be distributed back to rateayers. This provision would not take place until July 1st, 2029. So there are several years before um it would begin assuming the bill passes. Um
however in section let's see in section seven creates a new section in the general laws that establishes the framework for the mechanism described in section 8 and in addition section section 7 I I love
legal ease would trigger a one-time distribution of 70% of the ACP fund before July 1st 2029. So basically that means if the bill becomes law if certain conditions arise such as
there's an excess of 2% in projected revenue and rate payers are sort of in a similar place where we are now with the stresses of increased utility costs then there could be before July 1st of 2029 at least one
distribution of funds of 70% of funds. So even though technically it wouldn't, >> you know, it wouldn't kick in until 2029, there is the possibility that if the conditions exist, there might be at least one payout. So
that doesn't, so that means that potentially the green communities and the CLC program could both be impacted even prior to 2029. But you know, again, these other conditions would have to prevail for that to happen. Isn't that
maybe I misread the material that Lori sent around but isn't isn't that you know return of profits or whatever to rateayers um also a concern for the mass save um uh funding I mean that there's
not going to be enough money because it's going back to rateayers. >> Yes, I believe so. >> Yeah. >> So it's um Yeah. So, I mean, Massave, you know, that's the Well, that's the thing about the Mass Save. There's a
billion dollar cut in the Massave program, which is even separate from this. This is like an additional hit. So, >> um, these are really there there are many things and I agree that there are many wonderful things within that bill.
Um, but for instance, I saw a mass save article, uh, Mass Live, I'm sorry, Mass Live article today that talked about the bill and it didn't reference any of the cuts or any of these proposed sort of negative aspects of the bill. It just talked about, you know, bag, you know,
plastic bag ban and, you know, um, re reducing, you know, forever chemicals and that kind of thing, which is great and those are wonderful aspects of the bill, but these are really important. So, it's very important to make sure that um communities, committees, I know that
there are businesses and organizations that are um responding to the potential of the cuts to these programs u because it will impact them because we rely on those companies to help us do and implement the projects that you know that get funded through green communities. I'll give you a very quick
example that right now I could report on this later but I am applying for green communities funding for weatherization at the north fire station and you know that project is $270,000 and we're hoping to
uh be able to secure 242,000 from green communities for that program with the um with the difference being covered by the utility. So, you know, it would be significant. It's a significant hit to communities. Um, so
it's really important that we have, you know, especially energy committees, um, municipalities. I'm certainly, uh, in in correspondence with some of my colleagues, fellow colleagues across the state, and I'm not sure. I know MAPC, I
think, is putting together an opposition letter that will address these particular points. Um, I don't know because we're not they're they're the Metropolitan Area Planning Commission, so we're not really in their jurisdiction really. So, I don't know if
it would be okay for Ammerst to sign on, maybe it'll be fine. Um, but even if they they don't, if it comes just from those communities that are part of their um service area, I think at the very least we would want to have our own
letter that could be from the town manager, myself, and from the ECAC was what I was envisioning. Um, I think Lori was curious and about having the ECAC sign on to a letter um that's linked to
I think you all got the link to that letter. Um, but it's encouraging um businesses and sustainability consultants and others uh to sign. So there because they're businesses, I really don't advise you to sign that letter. I don't think that's the
appropriate place for you all to sign. So, I recommend either um if there is an initiative that has other communities energy committees signing, I think that would be a great one. Um, as I said, I think we could do our own at at the very
least. I think we could just do our own. Um, I think the more communities that send letters even independently is probably even better because it just demonstrates how people took the time to compose a letter and to respond. So, that's what I would prefer that we do. Um, that's my recommendation. I
definitely think we should respond to it. I just don't advise signing on with businesses. I think that's not an appropriate it's inappropriate for a town committee because we don't endorse specific businesses. Um there's a little bit of an ethical issue, I think, in
doing that. >> I I think that makes a lot of sense, Stephanie, and I think it makes a lot of sense for, you know, a a couple of reasons. One of which is clearly clearly some of the representatives in some of the communities in the
Commonwealth that there's a perceived um good about returning, you know, money to rateayers. Um and and it creates that tension between what we could do with the money if we
weren't returning it to rateayers. And I mean obviously there there are representatives. I mean that those provisions were put in there um because representatives believed they were doing something positive for their constituents.
And the more towns, the more constituents who actually respond as constituents, um the better um to deal with that tension between, you know, what do we do with um excess profits, if
you will, um I I think it's really wise. >> Yeah. And I believe the last um distribution that went out was around $50. >> Yeah. you know, to folks. And you know, what $50 can do for an individual, a
household versus, you know, the impact to a municipality when we're able to weatherize, you know, our an entire fire department station, you know, >> yeah, >> if the firehouse that houses our, you
know, very valuable, um, you know, emergency response team, I think it's important to make sure that, you know, they've been basically living a percentage of their lives in this building that's incredibly drafty. There's virtually no insulation value in
that building at all. Um, it's pretty sad. It's either has no insulation or in parts where there is insulation. It's just sunk and is not doing anything. So, it literally has an R value of about zero right now. So,
>> that's Yeah. Not only does it make sense for us, I think for us as a town or us as a committee, actually a town, um to to submit something in writing um regarding the this particular issue, I I
think I think those are important things for us as a group as we put together what we might want to talk to Mindy about and ask her about. >> Um you know, these are this is a very big deal. Um, and I I think that makes a
lot of sense, too. Um, any other people with general ideas of what, you know, we might want to think about, you know, asking Mindy about? I don't mean to put people on the spot, but um I think it's I I think it makes
sense for us to really think about it because I think making that a worthwhile uh you know, use of her time is is is I think important. >> Will there um be time if we talk to
Mindy to um make changes to this bill that we were just talking about? Yeah, it's in the Senate now. It it it is not it is not to the point of being voted on. I think there's still time to be able to uh make changes.
I mean, if it comes out of the Senate, does it go to a joint committee? I don't know that much about it. I mean, or if there differences in what the Senate, you know, comes up with, it it has to be reconciled in in some way, shape, or form, I think. Yeah, I know that this Yeah, the Senate
is proposing their own version of the bill. So, they are definitely going to be different. So, they do have to reconcile it somehow. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know if it's that when it's get sent to a committee. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I should know, but I don't know.
>> Questions from Indie then. >> Yes, exactly. >> How does our government work? >> Yeah, >> it's convoluted and very very complicated. I think how our general court works. >> Yeah.
>> You know, >> we may have on a different topic from India, it's possible we may have some questions on how the new um solar um sighting or clean energy sighting law will work out. Um I think at this point
the law is has passed and is as it is. Um, guidelines I think may still be >> I'm not sure if they the final version has been released yet. Um, but we may have questions. Um, how does it work? How does how's the town supposed to respond? So, that's that's another
possible topic. >> I'll see if I can think of any questions that uh would be worth asking, Mindy. >> Yep. >> Okay. I am mindful of the time. Um, we've got about five minutes. Um,
although it's the next item on the list, item five. Um, >> okay. >> So, I mean, we could start a little bit early, but you talk to me, Stephanie. >> I was just going to say I'm bringing Daniel into the meeting room now, >> so
maybe you want to do a little introduction, Steve. >> Okay. >> Sorry to put you on the spot. Well, I'll wait till I can see him because I've never met him in person. >> Got my camera on and I don't know if you can can you see me
>> now? We can. >> We can see you. >> Great. Thanks. >> Wonderful. Great. >> Well, welcome Daniel. Welcome to the town of Ammerst Energy Climate Action Committee meeting for what is it? April 8th. and um appreciate that you're
taking the time to come here and help us and people attending as as well as future viewers of this meeting watching it u on YouTube. We appreciate you helping us to learn more about how
residents can take advantage of solar PV on their rooftops. Um, so for everyone, this is Daniel Barry. He's a co-owner and residential design and sales specialist with the company PV Squared. They're based out of Greenfield and work
up and down the Connecticut River Valley. And I've worked with them on and off for many, many years. So they've been they've been around the valley for Have you hit 25 years? >> Since 2002. So pretty close.
>> Okay. Almost. Yeah. Okay, great. Um, so Daniel's going to go over and kind of give a is going to give a overview of solar and then we hope there'll be time for questions from the audience from particip participants tuning in and then
some of the ECAC members may also have some questions. So it looks like it's just about six o'clock. I see at least one person has shown up in the audience. Um, but why don't you go ahead and get started, Daniel? >> It sounds good. Well, thanks Steve for
for the introduction and to the committee for for inviting me. I'm happy to do this. Um, I've been an Amoris resident for about 13 years and as a member of PV Squared Solar, this is something that we love to do in terms of giving back. So, it checks both boxes.
Um, let me go ahead and share my screen. Um, and hopefully that will be a smooth transition and I'll I'll walk you through what I have to show you. and maybe you can let me know if that's looking right. >> Yep.
>> Okay. So, um, what I wanted to do for you all today is give you, uh, not, it's going to be impossible to give you a comprehensive picture of everything solar in Massachusetts, even if we just restricted to the to the residential
aspect, but I'll try to give everybody a substantive view of what the what the picture looks like for this year and walk you through the critical elements of why you might consider going solar, what the benefits are and what's
entailed in doing that. And then for for at least the last 30 minutes, hopefully more of the a lot of presentation time, I hope you can all pepper me with all the questions that you have and I'll do my best to to answer them because that's when it gets most in interesting.
So, a little bit about me and where I come from just to to give you a sense of who you're talking to. Um, my name is Daniel Barry. I've been working at PV Squared Solar uh for the last 11 years um as a residential design and sales
consultant and I've been living in Ammeris since 2013. Um I am a NABSEP technical sales um accredited um individual. NABSP is a national accredititation board of certified energy practitioners.
I'm an FA certified drone pilot. Um I used to work as a city planner and an architect. So I have some lead accredititation for that and that's what I bring to to my job in terms of experience. So
there's been a lot of change since last year in the renewables energy in general nationally um and in the solar industry as well. So why would you want to try to go solar as
a resident in the town of Ammeris in Massachusetts this year? I would say that there's five reasons that are salient. Um, and I would categorize them into community or socially conscious uh reasons and
individual ones. And there's a big diagram, big vin diagram between the two. So I'd say the number one reason is to combat the climate crisis to to turn those rays of sunlight into electricity without burning fossil fuels and
emitting carbon into the atmosphere. The second reason in a socially minded way would be to increase grid and community resilience. uh about 70% of the energy uh the electricity that transits Massachusetts
is produced by burning natural gas. The the remainder is a combination of renewable resources, wind, solar, nuclear, coal, biomass, etc. So, we've got quite a lot to do to bring that
ratio up in um in a manner that is environmentally positive. And solar is one of the ways in which we can do that. Then if we focus more into what one is to gain as a homeowner that is investing
in a solar project, we have the three reasons that are in green. We have the potential to reduce uh or completely eliminate um the costs of your electrical bill, which can be pretty substantial. As you know, if you live in
Massachusetts, you can increase your home's resale value and you can do this uh investing in a way that is very low risk and dependable in terms as uh in terms of a return on investment. So, I'll dig into all of
these throughout the presentation and we can we can go over your more specific questions when we when we finish up. So, in the realm of collective benefits, um I really love this study that the Acadia Center, which is uh an
organization in Massachusetts that um forwards clean energy in in Massachusetts, put out and they did a study on a single on the energy use in Massachusetts um on June 24th of um of
2025. And what happened on that 100 degree day? What happened on that 100 degree day um in terms of the electrical grid is that there was more demand than the electricity that was available to serve
everybody that was running their air conditioning, their fans, their their pools, um EVs, etc. So when we collect all of the solar projects across Massachusetts that are
connected to the grid from the largest ones that you see when you're driving on the highway to smaller scale individual rooftop projects plus the batteries that some of those are connected to.
There was a major shave off the amount of electricity that would have otherwise had to be imported into the state um in very expensive manner or injected to the grid by firing up some of the most expensive and the dirtiest power plants
which are called peaker plants and they run large diesel engines to produce electricity. So, the benefit of having all of these solar projects delivering energy directly to businesses and to households and batteries that could distribute some of that stored solar
energy back into the grid at a time of high need has a substantial collective benefit in terms of both saving money, keeping the grid safe and running under the conditions and the use that it's demanding. And that is something that
absolutely everybody in the state benefits from but is distributed between all of these individual utility scale and commercial projects. So this is just a really great example of how each and every project no matter
how small or how large contributes to grid stability and community resilience in Massachusetts. shifting over to individual benefits. Um, I've had a solar project and I live in Ammerst by Kushman Market, North
Ammerst and I've had a a solar project that I installed in 2019 and I took a snapshot of what how it's been doing um o over the last 9 8 years and also this morning. So, I took this at 10:24 a.m.
uh from my monitoring portal. All of the projects that we do connect to the internet and we can see exactly how they are performing. So at that point in time um is 31 degrees Fahrenheit outside. My array which is not very large was
producing 1.47 kW. It was sending all the power that my house needed at that point in time and sending some power out to the grid which quite literally my neighbors are using because electrons are lazy and they want to be used as close to the site where they are
generated as possible. So first they'll go to my house. Anything in above and beyond what my house needs, it's my next door neighbors that are using. And in terms of what it's done environmentally since it was turned on in I believe uh
January of 2019, we've got 77,000 tons of CO2 that have not been introduced into the atmosphere by virtue of producing the energy with the sun or the equivalent of 87,000 driven miles um for
for a car powered by an electric engine utilizing this electricity. So, it's a pretty substantial uh benefit for a system that's been operating only since 2019. And these systems will operate and the equipment is meant to operate for 25
years. Here's the other side of the individual benefits, which is uh financial. So, um I paid somewhere around $25,000 for the system back in 2018. The system
has been paid back entirely. Um, it's generated $13,571 of savings against my electrical expenses with Eversource to date. Um, it's increased my home value by $14,000.
I have not had an electricity bill since I installed it. And I can measure a return on investment that's over 14%. So, if I compare that to where my 401k is right now, um this investment is beating my 401k and it's a win-win
because it's saving me money monthly, annually against my electrical costs and it's got this electricity um benefit to the grid and it's lowering carbon emissions. Even if I sell my house because I decide to move somewhere else, somebody else will inherit the benefits
and the carbon emissions. So that is what as a homeowner um you can benefit from in the state of Massachusetts. Part of the benefit is that our state has been very progressive in its support of renewables and the solar industry. And we should thank our
legislature for standing by and doing that because the picture could be very different. If you go to Connecticut or Rhode Island or New Hampshire or Vermont, you'll see a very very different type of uh financial picture in terms of, you know, how these systems
are feasible. So, more specifically, what do we have right now at this point in time um in Massachusetts that can support anybody that is a homeowner looking to do a solar project? So, we have three
categories. The first are tax credits. So, the state offers a $1,000 income tax credit for a primary home doing a solar project in Massachusetts. And it also exempts the cost of solar equipment from
sales tax, which is 6 and a4%. Typically, about half of the budget of a project is equipment. So, that's a pretty substantial break that anybody gets. again courtesy of the state trying to support people and encourage them monetarily to invest in these systems to
lower carbon emissions which is a commonwealth goal. The second category is called net metering and that's a critical term. It's the fancy industry term for the mechanic through which the utilities
in our case here in Ammeris it's Eversource will compensate the homeowner or the business owner for the power that they produce and sell back to the grid. So net metering is very very strong in Massachusetts and for most projects um
one will be able to recover almost as much value as one pays for a unit of power when one sells a unit of power to the grid. That is going to be the strongest source of savings over time for any solar project in Massachusetts.
And the third and last set of categories for financially incentivizing solar projects are other initiatives in the state um that are are are more sort of programmatic and policydriven and have shifted over time. But this is what we
have right now. So we have Rex or renewable energy certificates which are you can think of as a carbon credit of sorts and you will receive a payment from the state once per year that is a function of your total solar energy
production over the span of one year. We also have a new iteration of a program called smart that's different than the smart meters that everybody has been getting on their homes. This is a different program with the same name,
but it's a solar incentive and it's got additional benefits for community solar, for battery storage, and for low-income communities. And there are many many census tracks in in Ammerst that fall under environmental
justice or minority tracks that qualify for this incentive. And that will basically double the compensation rate from the state that you would otherwise be entitled to through these carbon credits, the Rex. So that is available
now. We have connected solutions which is a peak demand grid support program. Um, how it relates to solar is that if you are an individual, if you're a household that adds a battery to your solar project, you can sign up for this
project to be able to deliver solar energy stored in the battery back to the grid. This is referring back to that slide to the Acadia Center that I I just um went through. Um, and the grid can draw from that battery with your
permission on the hottest days of the summer again to shave that peak response that that extra demand that it has using clean energy. And it will compensate you as a as a as a system holder in a very nice way.
The last element is um you if you're also doing a battery, you can apply for a heat loan, which is a 0% interest loan for up to seven years. I believe the current maximum amount is $25,000. And that can help subsidize or fund the
uh the battery component of a solar project if one decides to do it. It's not most projects I would say still don't attach a battery, but we're seeing more and more of them happening. And then there are also newer programs such as the ESHLP or Energy Saver Home Loan
Program through the state that um allow the usage of funding for a solar project. If the household is pursuing other energy initiatives that will cut down energy use such as adding heat pumps, insulation, changing windows,
etc. So, what happens if you are a resident that is wanting to consider a solar project this year? What what should you expect? What should you look for? What does that process look like? I'm basically going
to go over what I do every single day with with the people that I work with through through PV squared. Um, and it's a model for essentially how to go through the the the steps methodically to evaluate if your home is going to be
a feasible candidate for a solar project. Not all homes are and what that looks like. So you know we call this the solar journey and there are some critical elements that that are important to keep in mind and I would say these are the things
that I would advocate for everybody to think about that is considering a solar project. So first work work with a company that's qualified that's known in your community high integrity knows what they're doing. Do your research. Uh,
attending attending a meeting like this is a great way to do your research. Um, talk to people that you know that have already done solar projects, get their input, whether they're friends, family, or neighbors, and do some reading. Um, when you get down to talking to a
contractor, make sure that you meet in person. There there's a lot that can happen on the internet and in in a very anonymous fashion that is uninformed. So, a as you would with any major project, and these are major projects, they cost in the
tens of thousands of dollars, meet with people in person, get to know them, and and make sure that you earn they earn your trust. And last, but not least, don't rush and don't let anybody rush you. That is not a recipe for success. So, those are good rules of
thumb that I would that would advocate for absolutely everybody. So the first step at evaluating a solar project is going to to be to understand what an electricity bill
tells you tells us about your household use and its patterns of use. And it can be a pretty complicated thing to decode. A lot of people that I talk to make an analogy between reading a utility bill and reading a hospital bill. There's a
lot of different line items. A lot of it is gibberish. So, um, being able to understand this takes some time and is well worth it. And this this this chart that you see, monthly kilowatthour usage, is one of the most important
parts of your utility bill because it maps exactly how much electricity your specific household has used over the last 13 months. And that is a really good benchmark to work backwards from in terms of starting to think about a
system design. If nothing else is changing in the household, we can take those last 12 months and sort of set that up as a goal to work backwards from in terms of designing a system that would produce as much electricity. But the other thing that we want to do is
figure out if there are any changes that are happening to that household. As the country and specifically the state of Massachusetts electrifies, demand tends to go up. Things like heat pumps or air also also called many
splits commonly. And electric vehicles are incredible magnifiers of electrical use. you are supplanting fossil fuels that you're driving or using to heat your house with electricity. In some cases, that's going to double, triple,
or even quadruple a household's usage. So, being able to understand what the implications of changing equipment will be and to plan for those are really important step in terms of thinking about what a successful and a
right-sized solar project can be. The third step is to assess what a household's solar potential is in terms of its sighting. So for most people, that's going to be on the roof. For for fewer people that have the land base to
do potentially a groundbased project, it could be a groundbased project. But for 95% of people, that's going to be their homes and their roofs. The way that we do this at PV Squared is by flying a drone. It is the most accurate technology in terms of
accurately mapping a roof and the shading and the trees all around it. Um, there are other tools that are web- based that can be a good starting point to come up with a general ballpark and and that's a fair starting point, but it's not accurate enough to create a
really proper estimate of how a system is going to perform in western Massachusetts where we have a lot of tree cover in in almost every community that we work with. So, putting in the time to have somebody to come and
and take these measurements and be accurate is a really critical step. We also want to assess the roof condition because again, these systems are meant to be up and running for 25 years. The general rule of thumb is that
if you have an asphalt shingle roof and it's older than 15 years, you don't want to put a solar project over it because most most roofs are going to last around 30 years. the the the photo that I'm showing here is literally a client that
I I went to visit about two weeks ago. Um, and they had received uh a a proposal uh from a company saying that they could do a system on their roof. Well, this company never never came and assessed a roof and this is what it
looks like. So the the first thing I told them was there's there is no project that we will do or would recommend unless you're able to change the roof first for obvious reasons. the the whole model of how these systems
will work on a house is that they are installed once installed properly and that they are copacetic in the way that the roofing material will be aging and that the panels will be operating for that 25- year period. So, we really want
to be advocating and analyzing all these factors to look after our clients interests. And this is something that sadly is often overlooked. We also want to take a look at the state of a particular household's electrical
service to ascertain if there's anything that needs to be changed that that is out of code compliance or that is in rough shape or may be a problem. Um, most of the time households are in good shape and that's great. But sometimes if
something is identified again you can't see that through a satellite image for something that you're just getting out of the internet you know with produced by AI in 3 minutes. So having the time for somebody to come walk you through all these things look at all these
things and point out any um particular problems or things that would need to be addressed is really really important. and part of looking after um every client's needs. Now once those things are assessed, the
next step in the process is to prepare a design. And once the design is prepared, um the first part of the conversation should be to talk about how that design came to be. What's what's the logic behind it? um what equipment is being
used and how it will incorporate integrate into the house or or an outbuilding if there's a barn as you see here and the electrical service. Taking the time to do that and understand exactly what is being used and why
then we can move into how the project is performing both from the electrical standpoint and from the financial standpoint. So um the tools that we use to do that are we create a graph. In this case the blue line shows a household's
um and I've withheld the person's name here just for privacy. But in this particular place in blue you can see the person's electrical usage throughout the year and in yellow you can see the proposed solar projects production throughout the year. So that's going to
give you a sense of how these two things correlate. And again, that term net metering, that mechanism of compensation for power is how these systems balance out over the 12-month period. In this
case, between May and November, this household is producing more power monthtomonth than it's using. So, it's creating a credit and that credit is carrying forward all the way to November. um
once that person gets to November, January, February, March, April, they will be drawing from the credit that they built up throughout the summer to balance the excess usage or the higher usage in relation to their solar production. And the particular profile
of this curve is typical of an all electric home where loads are highest in the wintertime and lowest in the summertime. And then moving into the financial performance, we will go through a cash flow which shows exactly how much a
system costs, what the different benefits are in terms of again tax credits, net metering, renewable energy certificates, and how many years it would take for that system to pay back for itself under the current incentive
conditions that we have. So, in this case, we have a six-year payback period, which is about as ideal as it gets under the current cost of equipment and under the current incentives that we have in the state. It should also be a very important part
of the project to go through a go through the contract in a methodical way so that when you're signing on the dotted line, you have a good understanding and you've had a good chance to ask all the questions that you need to and you've gone through the
company's warranties, policies, general terms and conditions, and they're not obscure. So, have clarity about what it is that you're agreeing to do. Um, very important to also think about these projects as
not a refrigerator that you're putting on top of your house. It's not an appliance. It's more like a larger home improvement um project and it's going to need to be looked after over time. These systems are not no maintenance. They are lowmaintenance. And the most
important thing is to be able to monitor them via a web-based application. But then to have a a a line of connection to the the contractor that installed them so that if there's a warranty issue, if something stops working or if you have a
question, they can help you diagnose that problem and deal with it. So maintaining knowing what that contractor can offer in terms of long-term support, monitoring, warranty assistance, repair, and how that would work is also a really
important part of what you should keep in mind when considering a project. And um as I said, the the the most important thing about it will be keeping tabs on how that system is producing over time, getting familiar with it. Um
and having a direct line of communication to the people that installed it such that if if you do need support, if you run into a problem or if you have a question, you can reach out to them directly and they have a team of people that can that can help you. So,
I'll pause here and I'd love to hear your questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Great. Thank you very much, Danielle. Um, Stephanie, can you I guess >> Sure. We have a couple folks in the
audience and attendees. And if anybody there has questions, I think you can raise your hand electronically and Stephanie will be able to bring you in and you can ask your question. >> Great. >> I have a few questions that I'll ask
sort of queued up here that I'll ask if nobody else asks them, but let's go first to see if any of the intend attendees have some questions. Okay, Bernard, you can go ahead and unmute. >> Hi, thank you. I was going to wait, but since you're asking, um, Daniel, thank
you very much. Um, I I want to preface this question by saying I'm a past customer and a big fan and you've done a great job. And at the same time, I want to ask some questions that might not be part of your current business model, which is really where do you see the I
guess both the availability and feasibility of doing battery only either adding to an existing solar system or you're just interested in, you know, saving some money and helping shave the peak with, you know, a couple power walls. Um and that heat loan sort of
maxing out at 25K limits it in some cases. And then my second question is is sort of same here. Availability visibility of the whole category of of balcony solar. >> Yeah, good questions Bernard and hi
Bernard. I think uh I don't know if you remember but we we we worked together for a while in Natural Roots Farm as well >> um prior to to this whole solar um shift for me. >> It's it's a terrific terrific you know two degrees of separation in this valley
which which we appreciate. >> That's that's her valley. Um so so great questions. Um let let me answer them in in consecutive order. So it is um it is perfectly feasible to add batteries to it's possible to do it to to just about
any solar project no matter what the age at this point. U there's different manufacturers of batteries. You know Power Wall made by Tesla is one. Franklin Full Home there are myriad. Um but they are they're available. Um,
batteries at this point in time from a from a financial perspective are always going to have a certain cost that is not fully offset by the different incentives available in the state. That may change um when the state
if and when, but it certainly seems like it will go towards time of use charging. Um, time of use charging is a different model than what we have right now, which is a seasonal change between summer and winter and flat rates for for residential clients. Time of use is
you're charged different amounts of money based on the time of the day and what's happening on the grid. So, this happens in Colorado, California, Hawaii. And in those instances, batteries have a different financial profile, if you will, because you can you can store
power that you self- consume at the times when electricity would cost the most if you were to buy it from the grid or you can sell it at those times. That's called energy arbitrage. So, you know, that that picture will shift and evolve over time based on, you
know, what the state and the utilities um do in terms of their their charging. But if you want to add batteries either right now with a new system that that that you're pursuing or to an existing system, it's perfectly feasible. The the
HEAT loan is not a grant. It's it's a loan. So the benefit is that it's 0%. Um and the requirement is that you enroll a battery project in that connected solutions program because the the incentive to the
state is that by doing so you're helping to inject carbonfree electricity to the grid and that's basically why they are incentivizing the batteries in in that manner. Balcony solar for for those that are not
familiar with the term is sort of a hot topic in the industry. It is a very sort of micro smallcale way of adding an offthe-shelf solar project to a household um an apartment potentially is
not yet legal in in Massachusetts or in many states. um arguable there. There's many arguments for why, you know, it may need to be regulated or controlled in certain ways. I'm not going to get into those specifics, but the idea is that you can
plug in one, two, up to three panels to an outlet. And those panels would have a an inverter that would then turn that electricity that that that solar energy striking the panels into electricity and
directly benefit that household. Um it's a great idea in my opinion. Um it is also important to emphasize that it's small scale. So this is enough energy to maybe power a refrigerator. So, it's not nothing, but when you look
at the larger scheme of the amount of energy that most individual homes will use, um it's going to be a fraction of that. So, we'll see what the legislature does. Uh I personally feel very excited about it and I see it as not a substitute for you
know larger projects um but rather an additional component that can go into the mix for the overall cause saving money and lowering carbon emissions. >> Thank you Daniel. There any other questions? Bernard, do you have any
follow-up questions? All right. Unmute. No, no. I I'm I'm just going to listen to the rest. Thank you. >> Okay. You're welcome. Um, okay. Other questions from the attendees? Otherwise, we will turn it over to ECAC
members. Okay. There are no additional questions. So, >> let me jump in then with some questions that >> we've come up with. Um, thank you again, Daniel. You you
mentioned the price tag of a system can be tens of thousands of dollars. Um, what are the options? you know, buying it outright is certainly an option, but are there financing and or leasing options to help um help people with that
big pay that over time? >> Yes. So, there are there are generally speaking two two tracks out there as far as financial models to acquire a solar project. Uh one would be the ownership
one, which is what I focused on. The second track would be what's called TPO or third-party ownership. And there's different variants of that track. There are PPAs, P. This this industry is just completely saturated with acronyms. So,
I'm sorry on behalf of the industry. So, PPAs, power purchase agreements, leases. Um, if you squint, they're similar enough, which is basically
you have a parent company that's going to own the system, and you will be renting out your roof to that company. The pro is you don't need to come up with the capital, take out a loan or take out the money from your savings to pay for that project upfront, but you
will buy back the power from that company at a discounted rate. Um, usually these contracts are anywhere between 15 to 25 years in duration. Um, and if there's a transfer of
ownership of the house, the lease needs to be renegotiated between the homeowner, the lease holder, and the buyer. And then there are clauses that will vary, you know, substantially from one offering to another in terms of what
type of compensation the homeowner receives, what type of increases in the rate over time are factored in. Um, and that's sort of the flavor of um that track. um PV squared sort of speaking as
somebody working in a particular company has looked at many of these products over time but we've never found one that really sort of satis satisfies our value stream and we feel leaves the bulk of the value of the project with the homeowner
which is why we've abstained from from using that but that may change as as the industry changes and hopefully new new products come along. Um, but there there are a lot of companies certainly that offer that as as one of their purchasing
options. >> If if I want to buy a system, uh, can I get a loan from a bank or a credit union? >> Yeah. So, how people finance um, these projects is myriad. Um,
you have a percentage of people that have savings in the bank to draw from. is probably a minority, but that's, you know, if that's if that's you, that's great. You don't have to pay any interest. Most people in our area will go to one of two institutions that offer
what are specifically called solar loans, and they are solar financing products that are collateralizing the solar project itself rather than a home as in a home equity line of credit because it's generating an income. So
locally those two banks are Franklin First Credit Union um and 5 College Credit Union which is also uh a cooperative. And so the the loans are pretty pretty easy to use and apply for. I use UMass
FIS when I did my system. Um they publish their interest rates online and um I'd say that that that represents the bulk of the folks that we work with. Cool. So, if I'm like ready to go and I want solar and I want it now, what
what's the typical timeline when I make the phone call? How long does it take to go through that process till I start generating new solar energy? >> Okay. So, I can again transparency here. I'm going to speak from from my
perspective for the company for which I work PV squared. Um, so that will vary based on the time of year. At this point for us, if everything is going smoothly for a project, it could be anywhere
between 2 to 4 months. There's a permit process that's from from signing a contract to having the system turned on. The first stage of a project is the permitting process. And there are three permits that are required for any project, any solar project to be built
legally in Massachusetts anywhere, no matter whether you lease it or buy it. So there's a building permit, an electrical permit with the town, and then a utility permit in the case of Ammerst with Eversource. So those need to be prepared and procured and sometimes there might be an issue. A
roof might need reinforcing or a transformer might need upgrading. So those are things that are discovered once once those permits are submitted and feedback is received. But for most people um that process will be pretty smooth.
Uh within the first few weeks um those permits will be in hand. Then we can set up a time to come and build a project. Most residential projects are going to take anywhere between three to five days of on-site work to build depending on
size and and the complexity of the site. And then the utility has up to 21 business days to grant approval to operate i.e. turn the system on once it's installed. So I would say that for
most people right now give or take 3 months. Um, as we move into the summer and there's a greater volume of work in our particular construction queue, that construction time frame tends to extend
a bit, but that's where it is right now. Do you know if the Massachusetts incentives are likely to change in the next year or two, whether it's that tax credit or the net metering rules? And you mentioned the possible shift to time
of use metering. Um any sense how soon significant changes might occur to the landscape? >> I don't think No, I don't have that answer. um much as I would like to um
>> we haven't had any um significant changes in terms of the tax credit in Massachusetts for a very long time. That metering has been very strong. It actually got strengthened recently. It used to be that you could only do up to 10 kilow AC um for that's terminology
for your size of project and that's been increased all the way up to 25 uh for fully net metered systems. That's a recognition that people are using more power. If you buy an electric vehicle and you're plugging into your house, your usage is going to skyrocket. Um so
you need more power produced by solar panels if you want to fully offset that usage. and if you're lucky enough to have a house that is, you know, has enough roof space and not too much shade. So, there's been positive changes. Um,
how soon um billing will change is not something that I have absolute clarity on, but I think that there's a lot of movement on that this year. And certainly the fact that these new um smart or as we call
them AMI meters, advanced metering infrastructure is that acronym the fact that everybody in the state is receiving them is a clear indication that that's where the state wants to go. Now when exactly it will happen, I don't know. There will need to be a public
discussion process that includes the utilities that includes stakeholders. Um but but those gears I think are well in motion. When exactly they will they will transpire into changes and in in
billing and net metering I can't say nor exactly what those changes will be but I think that we can expect change in the years to come. That that much I feel comfortable saying. >> Indeed. Um
I would love to have solar on a roof my rooftop at home. Um, but I've got trees around and maybe I could be convinced to cut down trees, but can you say how much the PV system would offset the carbon
loss from removing trees around my house? That's a very hard question to answer with precision because you know are are you talking about a an evergreen a
mature tree a stand of trees sumax all of those are going to have a different carbon profile. Um there are also other benefits to the trees right like oxygen wildlife um aesthetic value to a property. So
what we are able What we are able to do in a methodical way is to quantify the carbon emissions that are avoided by a solar project under certain conditions. So sometimes we can model, you know, if you have one
large tree, I just did a house in a system for a house in South Deerfield that has one large oak tree that the homeowners were considering removing because it would make or break it in terms of a solar project. So, we modeled it both ways and um cutting the tree
down and replacing it with another pair of trees that would be lower like dog woods would satisfy those homeowners aesthetic concerns for the trees and the savings and the carbon offset from the solar project to these particular people
would justify bringing down that tree. There was also some danger to the house from falling limbs because a tree was over a garage. So there's a lot of factors to consider. Um but I think all of these are important and there's not one cardinal
rule of thumb that says you know like thumbs up or thumbs down. What we can do as you know solar consultants, what I would do in my job is able to quantify what the difference would be between
having a tree in place or not having it in place so that you can see what the differences are financially and in terms of output in terms of the system performance. Ah, perfect. >> Shade the I think that the most
important point is that shade that you bring up, Steve, is that shade is a is a really important factor. Um, and you can only make as much solar energy as you have sunshine, sunlight available throughout the day. Not every location
is going to be well suited to a solar project. Does it mean that you can't or shouldn't do it? That's up to that individual person. It definitely means that there will be more or less efficiency in terms of the systems performance and we're pretty forward about saying
that but ultimately it's what a what a person wants to do on their particular site. So if my roof is not suitable, it's don't want to cut down my trees or the trees are in the neighbors property, I my roof is too shaded overall, can you
say what some other options are for solar like community solar? Yeah. So, community solar is is a great option. I had community solar and still do even before I had my solar project because there used to be a large tree between my
house and my neighbor's house and I couldn't do a solar project with that tree there and then one day that tree was gone. Um, and it made the solar project feasible. But, um, community solar um is a great option. It can
offset about 10% I believe is the current maximum um of uh a person's uh electrical usage. It's a subscriptionbased model. So there are a number of uh solar farms and in
most counties in Massachusetts and the law requires that the developers for those systems share some of the financial benefits of that solar energy with residents of that county. So you can go, for example, to the Mass Clean
Energy Center website and do some research and see which solar farms, which community solar projects are operating in the county where you live, see if there are any open subscriptions uh to be able to participate in them.
People do come and go, so sometimes there's a wait list and you can basically sign up and there's no cost to doing that, which is awesome. uh just you know know the terms, make ma make sure that there's a way for you to exit without penalty um as you would for any
contract that you enter. Uh but it's a great option and um we do have a number of those of those projects um you know in Ammerst. Very good. Good. Thank you. Those are the questions that I have and let's I
guess turn back to either um attendees to the meeting or um ECAC members if any questions have come to mind. >> So again if any attendees would like to ask a question please electronically raise your hand.
John, you can go ahead and ask your question. >> Hi, I was just wondering if uh slate roofs are still an incumbrance to uh solar. >> Um by our standards, they generally are. It
is it is possible to do solar projects on on slate roofs, but slate is a very very delicate material. It's a terrific roofing material. Um, but it's very very easy to damage because it's brittle. Um, so the potential for for leakage and for
damage is very very high. Um, we have thus traditionally stayed away from slate roofing. Um, for those reasons, the last the last thing that we want to do is create a problem on a roof. Um, but uh there are some companies that will do it that can specialize in it.
Um, so it's it's not, you know, totally out of the question, but for for our company, it it is a roof type that we stay away from. Uh, the same applies to not very common to see, but um wood shingles on roofs. Um, and the reason
for that is that if you have a solar panel array over them, they're going to retain a lot of moisture and they're going to rot out very quickly. And um that is that is not a proper solution for preserving the integrity of a building over time and that's part of
our warranty and our responsibility. >> I had a question um regarding electric vehicles acting as a battery. Uh I I know it's possible. I know the technology exists. Is that something that you've seen or that you do or that
you've seen other companies do in terms of setting up the inverter or whatever the electrical setup needs to be? Is that something you've seen? >> Um, yes, it's something that is possible and that I have seen in a few select
locations. Um, so this technology is called V2, vehicle to everything. And the the notion is that, you know, vehicles have pretty large batteries and um you can potentially draw from that battery to feed back into a house as a
as a backup source. So I I think it's it's a big part of where the industry is going to be going. regulation and technology for accepting the power from the vehicle to the home um in a way that won't
violate violate a vehicle manufacturer's warranty and that will abide by a particular utility company's uh sort of standards is not there yet. So this is a case where like like with balcony solar the technology exists but the policy is not
quite there. Um, but I I I believe that that's going to become more of a mainstream um capability and I feel very excited about it because I I like when things can do more uh when you you know
you can really mobilize a battery and and not to be no pun intended here in in in different ways. You can you can drive it or you can use it as a as a source of backup. Um that makes a lot of sense to me. Can I jump in with a question, Steve? >> Absolutely.
>> Um, so on the topic of battery storage, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are about the future sort of of more battery storage and not specifically electric vehicle storage that's fed back, but
standalone battery storage for home systems associated with the solar. um what you think about the future of that is because I I know there's also a lot of concern from people now about battery storage. They're starting to sort of get this reputation for being these volatile
explosive devices which I don't personally feel are totally warranted but um I just wonder what your thoughts are as someone in the industry. >> Sure. So I think that a distinction needs to be made in terms of the scale
of the batteries. So I think where we've seen some you know significant um instances of sort of fires happening are with the utility scale batteries and I think a lot is being done to curtail that in terms of the design of these
facilities. Those are also the facilities that the grid needs the most because they can store a lot of power over time and distribute it when it's needed. But when you scale down to the
individual household, um it is is both safer and a much more rare instance to have any of these of these problems occurring. And the the way that the battery storage has evolved
is that it's now in our climate, our temperate climate, which you know, we're terms of battery performance, it's the cold that we're concerned about, not not the summertime. They can be installed outside and operate without losing a lot of efficiency. And that is a major step
forward in terms of lowering the cost of insulation and also the safety of the batteries because if there were to be any, you know, any fire related event, having them outside of the building envelope is very different than having them inside the building envelope.
Other concerns about battery storage at the utility scale is that it can be loud. it can it needs to cool itself so it can draw on water resources pretty heavily. So these are all things where the industry is trying to you know address address these problems and try
to come up with solutions. There's, you know, there's no sort of silver bullet that covers absolutely every base and is, you know, unimpeachable from every every aspect, right? Like they're rare earth minerals that that form part of these batteries,
whether they're in a car or whether they're in a household battery and where we want and and there's not that much research into what happens with these batteries once they reach the end of their shelf life. Can they be recycled? Can they be upcycled? So this is where
you know we want the industry to show up and think about more like what happens with the end of use what happens when these things are assembled at scale. Um and that's where a lot of the R&D is happening. So those are my particular thoughts on where we are at those two
scales. >> Thank you. Your your comments there about end of use reminded me of a question. Um, a rooftop solar system, what's what's the lifespan of that? How many years can I
expect to get have it generating power? >> You're muted, uh, Daniel. >> Oh, thank you. Sorry about that. So the standard period of time that you should expect is 25 to 30 years for for the system as a whole or the panels in
particular. Um we are at the point in time where most of the components can be something like 85% of the components in a solar project can be recycled or upcycled which is a far cry from where we were
back when we started in in in 2002. And we have some great local facil facilities. Zep, forget if I always forget if they're in South Hadley or um Graanby, but they do a terrific job at electronics recycling nearby. Um and
there's a lot of glass, there's a lot of metal, there's a lot of components that go right back into the stream of making new things with these systems. Batteries lag behind in that regard. And you know, the chemistry of different batteries is also very different. So, a lot more work
to do in that aspect of the field. >> Once I have a solar system installed on my roof, um does it require annual maintenance? Are there costs to keep it working as expected for that 25 or more years? >> Yeah. So, the most the most important
aspect is going to be to monitor it. Um, so all all of the systems that are presently installed can be connected to the internet or if there's no internet through a cell phone modem and uh the homeowner would have access to see how the system is producing power both over
time and on any given day. Um, so that I would say is the the single most important thing to do for for any solar project. Think of it like a dashboard on your car. um get to know it and and and know if it's, you know, throwing a light
um if it needs an oil change or so. The the systems the components of a system that are most likely to fail are the electronics. So, at some point in that 25- year period, it's it's, you know,
pretty likely that you will have at least one of the electronic components fail, and that's not catastrophic, but what it means is that it wants to be identified and replaced as promptly as possible. So, top quality equipment,
which is what our company deals with, offers 25-year warranties. So if the component fails under that time frame under warranty terms, what we need to do is identify the fact that it's failed, get it replaced, and you should be good for that systems,
you know, entire performance period. But you won't necessarily know it unless you're keeping tabs on your monitoring. Um, you know, you will receive automated alerts, but you want to be proactive about it. Um, or if you're not doing
that, at some point you'll notice that in your electrical bill, you know, it used to be zero, but now it's 50. If nothing else has changed, probably something's up. So, those are the main things to, you know, to think about. And also before a
system is even designed, designing it properly. So, you know, thinking about things like snowshed, um, trees, if you have limbs, you know, that are overhanging an array and may fall on the array during a storm,
that's arguably not the best design. So, really having those conversations with the homeowner before they engage in a project so that they know, you know, likely occurrences that would not be covered under warranties. Those are important parts to think about. Not so much proactive maintenance but intelligent design before you engage a
project. >> Yes. Good. Thank you. And my own experience, I've had solar at my home for 15 years and you know, essentially no maintenance has been needed. Occasional checkup and vacuuming the bugs out of the screen for the air
filter of the inverter. Um, but I've been really happy. And then I just I get excited every month at that when the utility bill comes. I sit there and I look at my usage, my solar production. I compare it to last year, compare it to the expected production, and it always
gives me a thrill to see see that solar energy production each year. And if there's an issue, then I know I can call someone and get something fixed. But so far, after 15 years, it's just it's humming along like it was when it was new. >> Good. And you sound like a person that
keeps spreadsheets and are is, you know, referencing them. So that that helps. But >> yeah, >> the the you know, keep an eye on it and also work with a contractor that has access to that monitoring so that if they notice something, they can also proactively alert you.
>> Yes. >> So both two-way street. >> Wonderful. We're coming up on an hour here, so we're um about at our time, but um to see if there's any additional questions from attendees or ECAC members. I don't think there are any attendee
questions. >> Looks like you've answered every possible question there, Danielle. Danielle, so thank you. >> Unlikely, but thanks again for having me and I'm I'm happy to, you know, pass along the materials if anybody has additional questions. My email is there,
so just reach out as needed. I'll be happy to respond. Daniel, if you could send me the um presentation that you shared, that would be great. >> Yeah. Put it in the meeting. Thank you, Stephanie. >> Sorry. >> Does a PDF work for you? >> Yes, that's totally fine. >> I'll do that. >> Thank you.
>> Thanks, everyone. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks. So Don, I'm happy to have you continue doing no Lori, I was about to say we are right at the spot which is so important to you. The Well, we already had a
preliminary discussion of mass save and ACP action, but that's where we are number six. >> You may want to say something um about that since you weren't here when we had our general discussion. So go ahead. >> Okay, I'll say something about it. I'm
also going to Did you share the letter? I did not. >> Okay. I'm going to share the letter that I'm asking you guys if you want to sign or not. If as as easy Oops. What just happened? Oh, there you are. Um, okay. Can you see that now? I'll make it bigger in a moment, but can you see the wee the undersigned? >> Yep.
>> Okay. Let me make it a little bit bigger. Uh, okay. So, I've been uh getting an education on this stuff in the last few days. The mass energized today featured um Elizabeth, can't think of her last name. I think she's the director of DOER and also uh green energy consumers
alliance was talking about this and everybody is talking about this. So uh the problem that you may have already discussed um let me make this a little bit bigger if I can figure out how there we go. um is that uh the bill that is currently being uh well okay so bill
went through the house right um this affordable energy bill it came out with these enormous cuts to mass save and it's worse than it looks because it's a billion dollars worth of cuts and they say it's only administrative stuff but the fact of the matter is the money was given late it's a three-year time frame
in which it's used the last year is 2027 and something like 2.5 billion of three and a half billion is already set spent or two billion of three and a half so This is a devastating cut. It means there will be no mass safe program in 2027. Um on top of that, the ACP is
being cut by 70%. The alternative compliance payments. Those are payments. Did you discuss what those are? Uh no. Okay. So, those are payments that are made by utilities companies when they fail to meet their green goals. So, uh, and that money goes to things like
the green communities, uh, money that Stephanie has worked so hard to get for our town, um, to fund different projects. So, all of these projects actually save people money. And, uh, if you click the I won't go to the Acadia link, but I encourage you to look at it.
You know, their analysis says something like for every dollar spent by Massave, consumers save three. Um, not only that, there's an enormous industry in Massachusetts that relies on Massave for its funding, heat pumps, right? And all those people are basically out of work
or a lot of them will be because, you know, the demand it will go down because we have these huge incentives for heat pumps. So, it's really important that these cuts not get made. Um, there are other ways and better ways to save money. The utilities um are making money
hands over feet. They make more money in Massachusetts than almost anywhere else. Um, and it's because of problems with the way our laws are written around utilities. So, that needs to be fixed. Other things need to be fixed. Massave has some issues that need to be fixed for sure. There are long waits. There's,
you know, it's run by the utility companies who lose money every time they put in a heat pump, right? So, so it's there's conflicts of interest. There are things that need to be saved, but a billion dollar cut is not the right way to do it. Um, so a lot of people are up
in arms about this. There's this letter going around that I've now gotten through at least three different I think I got it through BEA. I got it through um this list. What is it? This this um uh Lisc I forget what it stands for. It's a Do you remember what that stands
for, Stephanie? >> Something. >> Sorry. Which Lis or LICS? >> I I don't know. >> It's something communities for sustainability. It's it's a consortium of communities that have sustainability
efforts around Massachusetts. Um, and I just don't remember what it what it stands for. But at any rate, that's where I found out about this. They're the one that also had this very nice hourong webinar and training on it. And they're asking that organizations sign this letter, not individuals. Um, so I'm
going to read it. Do we'll do a we'll do a dramatic reading so we can go through it. Um, so we don't miss anything. So we the undersigned represent multif family affordable housing community in Massachusetts and afford uh from affordable housing owners to property managers, residents, architects,
engineers, general contractors, sustainability consultants, funders and advocates. So I would consider us advocates and we have affordable housing units in in this town and I think some of them almost certainly were built with uh some of these funds, right? Either
mass save or or ACP funds of some sort. Um, so we are united in the idea that affordable housing should be resilient, energy efficient, and healthy for residents and community members. While we are supportive of the many positive cost relief measures proposed in the latest energy affordability bill, we are
concerned about two areas in particular, namely the proposed billion dollar cut to mass save and the proposed 70% cut to alternative compliance payments funding. Affordable housing community relies on both of these sources to produce and preserve highquality lowcarbon affordable housing. Without these sources, tens of thousands of units of
affordable housing will be put at risk of not being constructed or renovated or renovated, furthering the housing or constructed or renovated, furthering the housing affordability crisis in Massachusetts and decimating the clean energy industry workforce of over 100,000 people. For context, most of the
new affordable housing built in Massachusetts is now passive house, a highly efficient building standard. These are large large um units being built all over the place now are being large uh complexes are being built to passive house standards which is outstanding. Um a highly efficient building standard that results in
comfortable healthy homes for residents and more durable buildings for owners not to mention cheaper buildings for them to live in because of the energy very minimal energy costs. Uh to build to this superior standard affordable housing developers have turned to Massav's passive house incentive program which provides support for training
design and construction. To date, Massave has supported the construction of 2,300 new passive house units with another 34,000 in the queue. It's time for us to double down on our nationleading approach, not back down. Beyond new construction, Massachusetts also made serious commitments to upgrade
our existing multifamily affordable housing to be future ready through significant investments in energy efficiency electrification and energy storage programs. These programs include Massav's lowincome energy affordability network multif family program and its income eligible deep energy retrofits
incentive path pathway which provides approximately 15 to $20,000 per unit to support multif family affordable housing renovation projects. These massive investments have been a critical funding source enabling owners to upgrade units while freeing up other critical housing resources for resident services. Over
100 affordable housing projects representing more than 12,000 units are currently in the pipeline waiting for lean multifamily funding. Also includes ACP funded department of energy resources affordable housing decarbonization grant program which has provided $40,000 per unit to significant
renovation projects. Uh this program has already awarded upgraded upgrade grants to 3,300 units with another 5,500 units that have received technical assistance and would be next in line. Uh DOER's Advancing Massachusetts Power Energy Storage Grant is a program also funded
through the ACP. Uh it's expected to support many affordable housing energy storage projects, helping our communities transition to and benefit from an all-electric future. In fact, several recent programs, all funded by ECP, are increasing the affordable housing community's ability to build
more housing and clean energy products. uh from the Hill and Driscoll admin administration and utilities power forward initiative to get housing connected to the grid faster to DOER's updated solar Massachusetts renewable target to smart program solar incentive program and its clean energy sighting
and permitting division that streamlines clean energy infrastructure projects that I think we're probably making use of uh right now as we write the bylaw uh I suspect um any even families who do not live in affordable housing or do not directly receive efficiency incent incentives
still benefit from these investments uh and payments because these programs save money on unnecessary grid infrastructure. Much of our grid sits unused for most of the year. 10% of our annual electricity use is responsible for 40% of our electricity costs. So it's those peak hours on the grid that
that do it. And by reducing peak loads, energy efficiency and demand flexibility saves billions of dollars for all rateayers. So uh it just concludes with affordable housing organizations depend on mass save and alternative compliance payment resources are essential parts of our construction and and renovation
projects. Uh without these resources our ability to create and preserve safe, affordable and healthy homes will be greatly diminished. So they're urging state legislators to really reconsider this. Um and I think they really do need to hear from us um on this. They need to
hear from everybody on this. We need to be screaming we are here, we are here. we are here because this is this is not a small cut. Um so the question is is there more discussion and uh at some point I would like to have a motion to sign off on
this thing as a committee if that if there's no reason not to. Um, Stephanie. >> Um, so I actually I'm sorry, Lori, because before you came we did discuss this a bit and what I said was that I absolutely think you should have a
letter or support another group of folks, but I don't think this is the appropriate group to sign on to. local energy advocates would be a great group to sponsor, you know, to sign this letter, but as an official town committee because this is businesses, I I think it's a bit problematic for you
to sign this particular letter. Um, so I would encourage you to um because a lot of these are community groups, but they're they're advocacy groups. They're not official town energy, municipal
energy committees. So again, I think I absolutely encourage you to have a to write a letter. I have something from the um metropolitan area planning commission that was sent to that sustainability group that had a bunch of
talking points. So you could combine, you know, you could take information from this letter, take information from that as well, and put together your own letter, uh, that could be from the town manager, ECAC, and myself representing
the town of Ammerst. Um, I think that would be a strong letter. Um, I think there may be other communities that may be banding together to do this as well. Um, I just don't think this is the right one. >> I don't I don't understand what the issue is. Is there some what why
wouldn't we sign on to it? What is the downside? because they're it's like we don't in we don't support specific businesses like when we for instance when we have a um when we recommend I'm thinking about when I was
wetlands administrator we put together a list of businesses uh consultants that people could contact but there's a disclaimer that we don't recommend or support or encourage any of these businesses we're just providing this as
a service to community members Can you tell me what businesses you're talking about? Because I don't see any businesses supported in here. >> A boat is a business here. >> No, no, those are those are just signing on. These are signature signators. >> I I know. I'm saying that the signatorries the signatures that are
part of this letter. Lori, I think having a letter is a great idea. I just don't think this is the one you as an official town committee should be signing on to because the folks that are the signitories are not municipal committees. They're not municipalities. They're businesses and advocacy groups
and others that are business related. I think you want to be more aligned with other energy committees or other municipalities. That would and I think like it would make me wonder what is the relationship
between something like this and this and the town right and Canton residents. Are these are these official town um associations of some sort? I don't know what these are. >> They're affiliated with towns, but they're not um they're not like a specific town appointed like a town
manager appointed committee. So, I I just I I've said what I have to say about it. I I if you all decide to do this, I just don't think it's appropriate. I think that you should do a letter. I encourage you to. I just
don't think this is the one to sign on to. I That's all I'm going to say. So, what I've been learning lately is that letters that come from groups like this on mass have a lot bigger impact. We were just told last week by Joe Cmerford, for example, she's happy to hear from us, but what she really wants is to hear from the Energy Technology
Institute, the Energy Transition Institute at UMass, for example. So, you know, I put my efforts there into helping them write a letter and signed off onto their letter, not as ECAC as something just as part of ETI. So they really want to hear from groups. That has a much bigger impact than um and I
suppose ECAC in that sense is a group but a letter signed by a lot of groups with wide support. Um yeah. Okay. So some of these I'm just looking some of these up. They are uh like what's this one for example? Are these nonprofits or are they town
committees? What are they? Most of them are going to be advocacy groups like again like local energy advocates would be our version of what a lot of these groups are. They would be a very appropriate group to sign on to this
um Canton Residents for a sustainable future looks like a town committee. It looks like a town thing. their their I don't know for sure, but their website is awfully they're advertising town election, the town's Earth Day. Um it
looks like it's all town stuff that they are pro promoting on their website. >> I gave you all my opinion. You can do whatever. If you decide to do it, that's fine. I'm just saying I just think you could do you are a committee. You are a
group. you'd be sending something in from the town that would align you also with town government. I don't see why that's bad. Um, and I think the more they hear from, you know, from and I agree hearing from groups, but if you are a group, you're a
town group, but I don't I don't see the >> diminished impact. >> Yeah. >> Um, all right. All right. Well, I'm willing to do anything that you're not on board with, Stephanie, but I did feel pretty strongly about this, so I'm not sure where that leaves us. Um,
I guess we can table it and maybe write something else. I'm just I'm also overwhelmed at the moment and uh not really in a place where I have time to write yet another letter. I'm writing in the process of writing several others at the moment um regarding UMass.
And this looked like it was exactly the right everything. It has it has numbers in it that are being widely circulated by Acadia. It's it's the the facts look right. Um there's nothing in it that looks like it's a conflict of interest to me.
>> I think you can easily take a lot of the information from that. If you want, I'll draft something and I'll take a lot of that information and put it together. I'm happy to do that. But they also want it by next Monday because what's happening right now is is
this is uh the bill is being written right now and they're expecting it to be done shortly and then it'll be sent into conference. So right now like right now is the moment. Um
do we know of any other town committees anywhere in Massachusetts? Like I don't know if we know people on them. What are what are they? I know this is an organization like a maybe it's a first mover problem. >> Um but >> is >> I don't know and I don't know if they
have even uh added uh everybody on. I mean they have a they've been circulating this thing just for a day, right? And they've already got all these signatures. I don't know if they've added all of them. Um >> so there are a lot so I am connected with um a group of sustainability
directors um and planners that work a lot of them mostly in the eastern part of the state >> and we've just recently started having conversation about this and as I said the mass association or the metropolitan
area planning commission is has put together a bunch of talking points for creating letters from municipalities. Um, their outreach was to mayors and managers. So, you know,
staff, it's just staff, the folks that I am working with are staff to the communities that have just started talking about whether there's going to be a letter um that's going to circulate from
from municipalities. So, I just don't think that one has gotten >> Well, >> I can reach out to the group and I can reach out to the group and ask them. >> All right. >> Well, okay. In absence of that, um
in absence of a a motion and a vote on this one, I think we will um just encourage you to please do that as soon as possible and encourage everyone to reach out individually. it won't have the impact, but um hopefully this will have an impact of its own without our signature on it.
Um and certainly uh DOE and got got an earful today. Uh Barrett was there, but he didn't stick around for questions. He just gave a spiel and then left. So, which was unfortunate because he didn't even mention ACP payments. He seemed to be not he seemed to be not on his he was
very concerned about mass save but ACP was not on his agenda which is a little shocking. >> Well and I think that's the thing is that there's not been a lot of information. I mean there are certain conditions that trigger that impact to green communities and climate leader
communities. So I think and I don't know if that feels like well it has to be these specific circumstances in order to trigger the impact to the that funding but it's not without the realm of possibility. I think what was
and and those impacts aren't uh wouldn't occur until 2029. However, there is one clause, I think it was section se 7 that would enable at least one
one-time use of 70% of those funds if these certain conditions were met that could happen before 2029 and that would impact green communities and CLC communities. So I I don't know if it's like the delayed impact, you know, um that isn't
sort of raising the flag for urgency about green communities and >> CLC communities. >> There's a lot of urgency coming out of the folks who seem to know exactly where this money goes. I mean that that that's >> right. >> I don't know where it all goes, right?
>> Yeah. But what I'm I'm saying is like, you know, believe me, this conversation has just started with this the folks that I work with and we are all the people that write and apply for those green community grant
funding. >> Yeah. >> So, we're just starting to get more wind of the impacts. I think it was sort of, >> you know, it's because it's all referenced to the ACP financing. it
doesn't necessarily identify that green communities and CLC funding would be directly impacted. So, I think that's part of it is that people weren't necessarily it wasn't necessarily on people's radar and it's starting to, you know, people are
starting to sort of understand what that means. So, like I said, the conversation is just starting to happen in my circle of folks. So, which is why I want to reach out to them because what we have and we have in the past put together
letters from municipalities and a whole list like the letter that you just showed, >> but ours was all a whole group of municipalities. Right. I got >> So, I think that's what we're trying to maybe get together. And I'm going to
reach out um to the group that I'm part of and see if anyone is already is aware of or has started that effort. Okay. Um yeah, again needs to be quick. Um I think these guys have the timeline right
from everything I've heard. Um because it'll be in once it's in committee, it disappears again. You know this everything's very secretive, right? the the the the conference committee operates in complete secrecy. No open meeting laws. >> Yeah. >> So, they're going to have one bill
they're going to have one bill that has these cuts in it coming out of the House and they're going to have another bill that better have no cuts in it if we even have a prayer of there being no cuts. Um, and I think that other bill is, like I say, is being written as we speak. And I
don't know when the I don't think there's a vote scheduled yet, but it could be early. It could be next week is my guess. Um, so >> it's just like and I I said to the group earlier that there was a a mass live article that was published I think today
um that talks about the energy bill and it's all you know >> massive >> sunshines and roses. No, because it doesn't even mention massive. It's just about like, you know, things like the plastic bag ban and cutting down on PAS chemicals. And so it's it doesn't even
mention >> that's not the affordability bill, is it? >> It's it's the climate Well, they were saying it was the energy and climate bill. So there's a whole lot in that bill. I mean, there's a lot of things. So I don't I wasn't even clear. Um >> but it just it's I just don't think
there's enough information >> Yeah. >> that's really getting out clearly about it. So >> everyone's overwhelmed right now. >> I do think the ACP and Massave stuff has been thoroughly thoroughly picked over now in the last in literally in the last
three days by Acadia by these LISC guys. I mean they gave their their if you haven't looked at the slides you should look at the slides because they are absolutely comprehensive. Um, you know, that's they were in that same email that this that the letter was in >> uh down a little farther
and uh that was a very very good presentation. It was a full hour and it was it was full of information. I scanned it a little bit, but I think, you know, I would like to send that on to the group that I'm part of, the network that I'm part of,
>> because I don't think anyone's I mean, again, we have the MAPC information, but we don't I don't think I've seen that information shared yet. >> Yeah. So, what is this? LC local initiatives.
Clear the local initiatives. I lost it. local initiative something local initiative support coalition LISC. So they're literally there to help municipalities understand this stuff, right?
Um and and local activists, I guess. Um all right. Any rate uh I guess we will leave that without anything. And since it's almost it's getting to be 7:30. Uh Don, you want to
you want to finish out the agenda? >> We'll be ripping through it in five minutes. But um >> so we're at seven education and outreach. Um any one of those uh four ABCD
um have anything to report? I don't I mean the education series we we had today's presentation which I thought was fabulous. Um I don't know whether we consider um
you know Mindy's coming to us part of an education series. I mean I presume the public's invited to that also. Um and the um the 22nd um
group of local um uh local higher education uh presenting what they're doing. Um anything else that people want to talk about or add to in the education's series? Um bullet point.
I got lots of good ideas at this meeting today but since the time is late I will not I will not mention them just that I was there and it was a great meeting actually >> this was meeting at what >> mass mass energized it's a mass energized community leaders meeting lots of people exchanging information about
what works in their communities and >> they had a lot of good there was a whole session on um outreach on so use of social media and ads and stuff like that perform you make a good ad uh that I wish I'd seen three weeks ago um to get the word out about these the
education series >> um advisory and support which is item eight. Lori, anything you want to say briefly on the UMass climate plan or lack thereof? >> Yeah, lack thereof is right. I I'll skip it this week.
>> Okay. And Steve, draft uh solar bylaw. Anything new and exciting? Nothing new from me, but perhaps Stephanie has updates. >> Well, we'll get to staff updates quickly. >> Um, good job. >> Transportation.
Emily, >> I did actually look at the website. It looks like they're having meetings again, so I can look into that. Um, the transportation and parking committee, I think it's called parking commission. Yeah. Um, looks like they got some new members. So,
um, yeah, I can see if I can get in touch with them to talk about the bike lane stuff. >> Great. Um, regional and state policy updates. I mean, again, we're back to you again, Lori, and you know, we've already
>> Yeah. Um, and now, Stephanie. >> Okay. very quickly. Um the uh heat pump program is um down to only five or six households now. So very excited. Um hoping to wrap that up. They are going
to be tableabling at the um the global village festival and also the sustainability festival. So I think I mentioned that before but just reiterating. And then the um solar uh bylaw is now um kind of at a point where
it's wrapping up. The CRC is just looking at some final language, but there um is going to be uh probably joint hearing with the planning uh planning board in order to sort of expedite review because typically CRC
will have their hearings, planning board will have their hearings. Um they're hoping that they'll be able to get together. that has to get recommended by the town council first though. So there's still a bit of a timeline before this um gets uh final approval that goes
to the town council. So it's one of those things where final version goes to town council. Town council refers it back to um CRC and planning board for hearings. They have hearings. There's public comment at those uh meetings u which I will
certainly let you all know about. Um, and then, uh, I don't know at what stage it goes to go, but I think G has to look at it as well. And then it goes back to the town council for two readings. Um, the second reading is typically when
they have the vote. So, everything is hopefully going to be wrapped up, you know, by September is the hope that it gets completed the whole process. And that's uh I think that's enough for now. I did mention that I'm I am
applying for a green communities funding for weatherization at the Northfire Station. >> Yeah. >> So >> great. Any member updates that we haven't touched on?
Um items for the next agenda um for the next meeting agenda. Um, obviously the next meeting will get us within 3 or 4 days of the sustainability
festival, but I presume everything will be in in in place by then. Um, any other agenda items other than the normal agenda items? >> Yeah, I'll send out another I didn't have a chance to do it, but I'll send out another reminder of who's bringing
what, and I'll remember to include Emily for >> Yeah. And I and I think I think Lori that we all ought to come back with some sort of series of areas of interest or questions
to begin to develop um how we want to deal with um with Mindy's time and to make it worthwhile for everybody. >> Yes. You know, so that it's a productive >> uh session with with Mindy. and we
really ought to get ahead of that ball which you've been big on and I agree with you. So >> everybody come with at least one question next time. >> There we go. Anything else? And now I guess Stephanie, it's public comment time with
the last minute to go. If anybody has anything they want to say. No, no public comment. Okay, then we're ready to adjourn. And Lori, I don't want you to ever miss a meeting again. >> I I hate to tell you this, but I we have
Oh, actually, oh my gosh. At the next meeting, Don, you're going to have to take over for that discussion because I got to leave at 6:30. So, wait, is that the April 20 >> second? >> No, that's Mindy Domes. I'm here for the next one. Sorry. I'm here for the next one. So, we gota So, we'll have plenty of time. I hope
>> that's good because the sixth I'm going to be on Oxy Cotton and nobody's gonna That's right. That's right. That's right. >> what I have to say. >> So, um >> All right. So, see you all in two weeks. >> Yeah. Okay. Take care. >> We're done. Thanks everyone. Byebye.
Take it. Bye. Yep.