Right. Hello and welcome to the Emmeris Conservation Commission meeting of May 14th, 2025. The time is 7:04. We have all members present except Laura at some point. I think Laura's term expires, too. So, you'll have to let me know to
stop reporting that. Aaron, um staff tonight is Aaron Jacqu, conservation agent. Um and Dave Zom, our director, could not make it tonight. So, first up is chair report. I don't have anything. Um, director report Dave Zoic is not present. So, I think we're going to, if
everyone's okay with it, dive into our land management subcommittee um, discussion on forestry. So, hopefully everybody had a chance to review the three-pager that Alex provided. Um, Andre, I saw some
comments of yours. Thanks for doing that. And thank you, Alex, again for putting that well-written piece together. So we had talked about doing this sort of live um we discussed the open meeting law compliance. So I think
the plan is that um we hear everybody's comments as we go through the document which Erin is planning on sharing and we will make the any changes and comments and suggestions as we go. Um so Erin,
are you able to put something up on the screen live or Okay. I have a I have a comment before we begin. Sure, Alex. In terms of note takingaking to make life easier for Bruce, I suggest that we
not note every little comment that's made, but rather just that we reviewed it. And however Bruce wants to sum it up would be fine with me. But Sure. And if Bruce you want to link the document,
um, that might work if it's that works. All right. Okay. Um, would anyone like to volunteer to go first in a review? Okay, so we're using Andre, so that's that's easier. Yeah, please make it
bigger. Yeah, I could if you uh if you want I could just get started. Sure. Thanks. Can you make it bigger, please? All right. Um just uh I ask a little patience uh in
that uh what I'll what I'm trying to do is uh figure out or I just uh I haven't looked at my review uh recently. So I just want to make sure that I'm giving you reasons uh that make sense. Um I
just added uh and pathogens on page one which um yeah agree. Good catch. All right. Now um the next uh or number seven here uh says salvage following destructive storms and wind events
harvesting standing trees for firewood and timber are not commission purposes for men uh for forest management whatever clarification I really didn't understand what that meant. Alex do you want to respond or I I think
I remember the conversation enough to if you want me to. Let me just What is it? You didn't understand that sentence. Uh, harvesting standing trees for firewood and timber are not commission purposes. Yeah, we're not going to be harvesting
timber for income or it's not a purpose for managing our forests to conduct what what I'll call standard forestry practices of harvest. So, okay. Okay. So, uh, goals, uh, you mean, uh,
that's what you're Okay. Well, if it's clear, I I just didn't understand it. Yeah, the discussion around it was I think Alex was trying to preempt that, uh, we we wouldn't do that. Um I will say Andre that
um other land owned by the town of Ammerst which is managed by DPW they do harvest or up until very recently they do have planned harvests and so far in conservation land that was not an objective. H how about
something a little more direct then? Um I not that I I mean I agree with uh with what you're saying. Uh like harvesting standing trees for firewood and timber um or the the conservation commission uh
does not plan to harvest standing blah blah blah. I don't know. Regardless, uh just pointing out that the uh that I found the the wording a little bit confusing. It doesn't it's neither here nor there. Well, if we say does not plan to, we
could change our mind. I wanted a clear statement. Yeah. I wonder if um if it's just moving uh the commission to the subject in the sentence structure. Um that'll clarify the commission um commission goals and purposes do not
include harvesting standing trees for firewood timber. That works for me. Yeah, I was going to suggest the same thing. Yeah. and I included firewood for obvious reasons. But I will comment that we have seen in the
presentation of the Ammerst staff that takes care of trails and whatnot that they have had a lot of trees falling over and they've had to cut them up and and I don't know if that's classified as salvage, but um I don't that's not
forest management. That's that's that's that's trail maintenance and things of that sort, but so um I didn't want to talk about that in the document, but we did see them having to deal with I think over a 100 trees
that toppled over, which is going to be happening more and more with climate change and wind events happening more and more often, but I didn't go into that here. Sounds good. Um, a couple other minor uh things like I don't know
where the period goes and all that doesn't matter to me much. Uh, page uh or on line 42. Uh, yeah. So, on the web address, I understand Andre thinks that that shouldn't be in there because it's
subject to change. And I understand exactly what he's talking about and he's correct. It does change from time to time, but we have hyperlinks all through this document. So, I would I'd rather put
this aside. If you wanted to lead it, that's fine with me, but I'm just telling you there are other hyperlinks in the in the entire policy document. Okay, we can maybe beef up the describe it then. There needs to be a global decision whether to leave them in or take them out rather than just one by
one. Could we put it in the uh appendix and just put a reference here and then have it more specifically spelled out in the appendix or just the references. We could describe what it is and then put the hyperlink and I think we should just do that globally. And I I just want to
remind people that we're going to we're shooting for a 20 minute um conversation here. So okay, I'll just if I could I'll just make a comment that I didn't have a problem with any of Andre's comments. And that speeds things up. Sure. Neither
did I. Bruce, go ahead. Just want to um ask that Aaron repair the copy editing marks that are in there. Line 41, line 42. So I'm sorry. What do you mean, Bruce?
Repair the copy editing. In line 41, the word and has been crossed out. So in line 41 there was an uh a word misspelled or there was an issue about the punctuation.
You see the red under control. Oh well yeah. So I think it was for an example and he just took out and so it's for example. There's some problem with control but we can do an edit. Just fix those. I'm asking to fix them at the end. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not
going to edit this one, but I'll circle it on the hard copy because it's it's Yeah. Uh All right. Well, I suppose that if there's nothing no issues with uh I mean, let me let's go back now down to
68 um line 68 um tropic levels. Uh, I would just I would just kind of spell it out a little bit more for the readers unless I mean this it's we're all you know I think a lot of us have the technical knowledge of what these things mean but
uh we're we're not writing it for us. Um, so I would, you know, I suggest uh uh kind of explaining it or uh if you don't think so, that's all good, too. We could just do an in parentheses, what did you
suggest? Food chains or levels of the food chain. Uh yeah, levels of the food chain. Yeah. Yeah. And uh just above that, you know, uh we have Corkus uh the Latin uh
um genus of uh of the oaks. Um I would put that at the first mention of uh of oaks ra uh I mean that's kind of what you would Yeah, but we haven't done as you point out we haven't done it. Um so we can just remove circus and keep it.
Sounds good. Uh, just a misspelling on 93. No biggie. I'm done. Next. Thanks, Andre. All right. Any other comments, feedback? Rachel. Yeah. No, this is great, and I agree
with Andre's comments, too. Um, the last paragraph, uh, where it's outlining different types of events. Um, I wonder if we could insert for the last and where we say and enhance wildlife habitat conservation land prior to that
state something to the effect of um address other threats due to invasive species or climate change. Um, because there may be other things that come up that we don't know about in the future. Which line are you on, uh, Rachel? Uh, let's
see. I guess it's line 99. So, address problematic monotypic stands, comma, and then say something to the effect of address other threats due to invasive species or climate change. Excellent. I like it.
Yeah. Okay. Um, I see Aaron writing it all down. Um, anyone else? You know, I'll just clarify that all the stuff in the header is going to come out. That's not part of the official document, right? Just tracking our iterations.
All right. Well, thank you again, Alex, for being the keeper and writer of this and everybody for your reviews and good comments. So, I think we're going to vote. We're looking for a vote now to accept this forest management component of
the what are we calling this land use policy with the noted changes with noted changes discussed tonight. Uh I move to accept the uh new uh forest management
uh uh regulations put together by the subcommittee with the uh uh discussed [Music] um with the discussed modifications. I second the motion. Rachel on the second.
Bruce, hi. Alex, hi. Jason, hi, Rachel. Hi, Andre. Hi. And I'm an I. All right. Thank you everyone for your diligence on that. Andre, real quick. Great job, folks. You guys did a great job on this,
especially you, Alex. Thank you. Thank you. You can tell Alex has a solid background in the field on this one. Okay. Um, so I understand that we have Jeff from the Hitchcock here to present some
monitoring tonight. So I don't want to lose sight of that. So let's bring him in, Erin. And um, we'll hear about the Hitchcock Center volunteer egg mass survey. Right. I think Jeff now a panelist. Yeah. Welcome.
Thank you for joining us tonight. Sure. So, I think you've talked to Dave and Aaron already and um we I guess asked just to hear a little bit more about this ongoing and long-term monitoring that you guys do. Um so, please
enlighten us. Sure. Um, so we've been like since, you know, the salamander tunnels, I'm sure you're all aware, were like put in in the 80s and the bucket brigades were there for for years before that. I don't
know exactly when the Hitchcock Center started getting involved, but for sure they were involved with the tunnels being um put in and was it working with was it Dave Winston, I think his name was Commander Salamander.
And you know, I've got some data going back to I think the '9s and in one of the presentations I have in terms of egg mass collections and I kind of took over for Ted Watt when he retired and have
been doing, you know, pretty much annual surveys of the egg masses since then and uh like communicating with the land owner that's adjacent to the um to the uh Maple Swap when I do that.
And you know, I guess you know in general it's like TED used to do like public adult programs back in the you know before COVID essentially and then
you know right before COVID and after CO I was taking a class in uh to be able to count and then I think last year. Did was it you and I, Erin, that did it? I can't remember if that was last year or two years ago. I think it was two years ago. Yeah. And then
maybe I went with the class again last year. And then this past year they open it up to the public to see if there'd be people who are interested and mentioned that as part of like we do a training for Henry Street Crossing that goes with like to be able to count how many
salamanders there is. So we're looking at as a opportunity for environmental education for the um for the community as well as wanting to like make sure that people come properly prepared and that they you know
ideally don't handle the salamanders and don't go up into the land and all the things that we'd want them to do. And with the roads starting to be closed this past like 3 years ago now, trying to have it be more educational versus just worrying about safety. And then the
egg mass counting that happens. I opened up to the public and I had two people sign up and one only one person made it. So it's essentially me and one other person. But you know the nice thing about that is like in terms of the count itself is
that we had a record count this year. So I think that the closing of the street over the past 3 years is starting to have an impact on the population and I'm just opening up and uh I have a slide
that I've been using um you know prior so um I've got data going back to 1993. There hasn't been a count every year then, but there's been a count almost every year since I started
from like 2016 through 2024. There's been many counts and um the highest was 2018 like sometimes it the counts like the not all of the population of salamanders necessarily
move in a single year. So like uh but usually you assume about 50%. And in 19 17. Sorry, 2017 there was 23. The next year after that there was 126. So it was like a huge jump. That's the most we ever had. Before that the highest count
was 106 in 2006. And um it's probably was averaging about 70. And then in 2019 I went too early. There's no spermata. There's just spermataphors.
2020 it was 97. 2021 it was 16. 2023 it was 56 and in 2023 that was the first year we had our roads closed and it was um I closed the roads too like a a little bit too late because of like not
knowing wasn't uh and there was a massive casualties of the male salamanders unfortunately um so we had 56 then 2024 we had 69 this past year we had 142 which is like a record from what
I can And like in 2020 there was like there's there's two different pools that are being calculated. Do you want to share a screen? Are you looking at a plot? We'd love to see that. I can do that if I'm allowed to sending request.
Um yeah, I mean it's really exciting to look at long-term monering data and we were I think really interested to do. All right. Now I can All right. So I will share the screen. Can you see the
PowerPoint presentation now? So I don't have I haven't put in the 2025 information yet, but you can see the that we have two sets of populations. The Red Maple Swamp, which is where the the tunnels are, and then there's the railroad tracks, which is essentially
there's like three homes. On the other side of those three homes, there's another pool. And there's been very few like essentially a declining number of uh of
uh egg masses in that pool. You can see back like in it was like 59. It was it more sometimes than we would find in 93 in that than we did in the others and 30s and 20s and it went down to like like six and then one then 13 the first
time we closed the roads and then one 2024 and we had like 19 this year. So like it's just like to me it's saying that closing the roads is making that pool which wasn't protected by the
um by the salamand by by the tunnels potentially that we'll see an increase in that. It just shows even more of a impact of closing the road and then the and the number for the swamp was 122. So, in both cases, it was
a record um for for me, but like the there's still a long way off from where the egg mass population was back in 93 uh or like even in 2013. Like there's there's room for that to to go up again.
Yeah, thank you. I see I see Bruce's hand up, so I'm gonna take some questions. Bruce, go ahead. Um, you may have said, but what species of salamander are we talking about? Sorry, the the yellow spotted salamander for Hitchcock. So, so I I've almost
exclusively seen that. I mean, there's been I I know that people have seen like the redback salamanders, which don't actually go to the breeding pools on rainy nights. I've heard that there's one or two. I think I can't remember if it was
a blue spotted or if it was a Jefferson, but I but I've never seen anything besides yellow spotted, but I know that there is there's been on occasion one or two other types of species that have been seen, but I I can't verify that for
myself because I've never seen that. Right. Any other And there's also a good movement of wood frogs and peepers and and some green frogs as well there. Alex, see Alex has a question. I have two questions if we have time and I'll
let the chair determine if we have time. Could you Sure. We only go ahead. Could you briefly explain briefly explain their life cycle? And I also am wondering how far um into the woodland do they travel to
spend the rest of the year? Sure. So I think that they go approximately like a quarter of a mile is like their arrange to get to a breeding pool. So it's essentially all the way up the hill past where like
Eversource has their road and they decided to put that little bridge in. Um and in terms of their life cycle, they they they can live an extraordinarily long time. Like I think the they can live like they've been recorded over 30
years is I think that the longest lived. So they're and you know they get to be yay big like 9 10 inches long and they I think that they essentially would emerge like they should be emerging from eggs now and
they stay in the water. I think that they will come out from the water maybe end of July is what I what I recall, but I'm not 100% sure. And then it takes them a couple years to get into breeding. And their life, you know, their breeding
cycle and how long it takes them to get to sexual maturity is different actually I think depending on temperature where in like further south they I think they reach sexual maturity earlier and here
it's you know it's maybe it's two or three years to get to sexual maturity. And how long do they stay in the woods versus is that there's pools? It's so they're in the pools for a couple weeks at most. You know it. That said, the
males migrate first and then the females. And sometimes, you know, the males could be in there for a month if like the weather the weather conditions are like are very variable. It's very hard to tell. But there's been t they're very specific about like it needs to be
over 40 degrees and raining like the first rainy nights that's when big night happens. But they're also not very specific. You know this past year I was like oh my goodness I have to close the roads because it had rained earlier in the day and it was like 68 degrees and
it was wet enough that I saw all these frogs in the road and I'm just like well it's not raining but frogs are moving. Salamanders might be moving. And sure enough, that was the case. And people are at Henry Street anyway. So like, you know, they they like to not follow the rules. And the later on into the season
that it goes, the less picky they are in terms of what those rules might be like, you know, you I've even seen them like during the day once. Like I was just like, what are you doing here? But it was like it was it was rainy and it was it was like a weird year a couple years
ago. So Alex, you had another question. Is my hand up? You said you had two questions. Oh, he answered them. One was life cycle, the other was how far into the wood they travel. And he said about a quarter of a mile. Okay, got it.
Thanks. All right. Well, thank you so much, Jeff. Um, it's cool to see the data. Um, yeah. I mean, if you want to see I've got I've got like tons of pictures if you would like to see pictures. Happy to show you some. Yeah, maybe a few pictures to tie it up. So,
sure. Let me let's see. So, I think I'm on this. So, you know, this is the type of salamander we're talking about. We can't see your screen. All right.
Sorry. All right. So, this is the type of salamander. Just just so you you're looking at it, the mole salamander. I can um just go through quickly. You know, they're not endangered.
Um I've got some, you know, they're highly camouflaged, so like it's at night, it's really hard to see them. I do encourage people to use red lights as well. And I talked about the other species. I won't take you through all the species, but you know, in terms of
habitats, they like to be in it has to be vernal pools. It needs to be certain depth when they lay their eggs. They like they, you know, different than woodf frogs which they kind of float on the top. They lay they're kind of looking for a Goldilocks part of the of
the vernal pool. It needs to be pretty big. You know, it's interesting. The red maple swamp like I'm working with Aaron potentially to get it labeled as a vernal pool even though it has an inlet and an outlet. I've never seen fish in there, but like um it they are it's it's
a really big area which is which is helpful. Um and then when they come together there's what's called a congress. So the males go first and they put in they lay their spermataphores before the females come in like areas that are like the best for
laying eggs I would imagine and then they bring the females to their spermataphores and then they the egg masses come after that. like and this the spermataphores look like white dots. Like I I went too early once and only saw spermataphors and like is a single
spermataphor and then uh the egg masses are really interesting. Sometimes they're clear and they also these white ones and like don't know why but like um both are viable and then each egg mass can be between 12 and like 250 egg
masses. So, uh, there can be eggs, I should say, and the embryos that are you can kind of see they have this jelly around them. So, so it's really like like eggs for frogs have no jelly, but the these salamanders have um these very
distinct egg masses. And very interesting with them is that you see this green inside of the egg masses. They actually have an algae that grows in the eggs and help. And so like these vernal pools are an oxygen poor
environment. So this algae has co- like um developed with the salamanders and that this it actually goes into the eggs and it's provides oxygen for these salamanders and the salamanders provide
them the nitrogen and this type of algae actually lives inside of the male sorry in the female and male I guess adult phalamanders. So like they lay the eggs with this algae inside of it. It's the
only known version of this. So it's like the symbiotic algae. So it's really cool from that perspective. And so I mean and then like it's this says like you know 7 to nine days after the egg masses. This is answering a previous question is when
they leave. So they're there for however long plus give or take a few days and then they head back. All right. I see two hands. Yeah. Andre, go ahead. Yeah, thanks for your uh for your presentation. I really appreciate it,
Jeff. Um I had a question about uh how uh about the water level uh this year in vernal pools because I've got a couple uh on our property and I've noticed that they were way down and I didn't see uh
um almost any I saw very few amphibians in it. uh uh this this this year is have has it uh gone down this year or is that just me? I mean I don't know if they've dried up completely, but certainly with the rains that we just got, a lot of
them have been refilled up the in in the case of Henry Street, my guess is a after seeing all the water flow that's going through like uh the the Mill River and like going over the dam at Puffer Pond that it's
completely refilled. I went through there two weeks ago and the water it was I would say it was pretty consistent at least at those two places. But um I mean that we have had
a you know an average not not especially dry spring. I think maybe the you know the drought for Massachusetts is now done. It was going from like severe to minor like as of last week before all this rain. So I I think that it was not
out of the ordinary. I've like at the Hitchcock Center near there there's a couple vernal pools and one of which has like completely lost all of its water. And in previous years when there was higher water, there were frogs that were in there. And I've had to had the kids
bringing the egg masses like from one to the other one that was that's a bigger one. But um but I but the bigger pool had water in it throughout. So I think that it was a normal year for in terms of that. Thanks Jeeoff. So um we we have
to move into our hearing shortly but I do see commission I think everybody is excited to talk about this. Um but Bruce and Jason can we agree about the agenda and the number of people who are here
yeah noted. Okay, I see Jason putting his hand down, but I I encourage you to contact Jeff offline if you have more questions for sure if that's okay. And every every February I do a essentially like a big training and if you want to come to that training, it's uh you can
learn about it and you can see the full presentation. It gives you the history of the Henry Street Tunnels as well. Great. Thanks so much for that work, Jeff, and for joining us tonight. Thank you. No problem. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Byebye. Um, Erin, do we have anyone here for our land use applications? If not, I was going to
bump them to the end. Uh, yeah. No, to my knowledge, no one's here for those. So, yeah, I would support that. Okay. All right. So, let's move into our hearings. And, and if you are here for those land use applications, raise your hand now and we'll bump you up. Okay.
All right. So, hearings. General procedure for fairness to all applicants. Each hearing has 20 dedicated minutes on the agenda. Five minutes of comments from staff. Five minutes from presentation by the applicant representative, five minutes for public comment, five minutes for
commissioners um project Q&A at the chair's discretion. So we do require that all submitted and revised materials be submitted to us by the Wednesday the week prior to the meeting by close of business so that we can review it. So
for all presenters, please clearly state your name, the address of the project, who are you representing, as well as preferred pronouns. And for members of the public, state your name, address, and preferred pronouns. So I think for first one is already open. And this was
a notice of intent for Wendell Wetland Services on behalf of Taylor Davis Landscaping Company Incorporated for maintenance and repair of storm water management system and wetland restoration at 71 West Pomeroy. um proposed work within bordering vegetated wetland buffer zone. So there's been a
request to continue this one from the applicant and um we're not discussing it any further tonight. So I'm looking for a motion to continue. We move that we continue the public hearing to June 11,
2025 at 7:15 p.m. Second. Alex on the motion. Bruce on the second. Bruce, hi Jason. Hi Rachel. Hi Alex. Hi Andre.
I and I'm an I. Okay. Next one of opening. Okay. Okay. This hearing is being held as required by the chap by provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the commonwealth and act relative to the protection of the wetlands as most recently amended in
article 3.31 wetlands protection under the town of Ammerst general bylaws. This is a notice of intent the engineer on behalf of the town of Ammerst for the proposed daylighting of the Kellogg brook which will include restoration of bank bordering vegetated wetland and land underwater. Proposed work also
includes an accessible pedestrian path and pedestrian bridge and it's at 31 Southeast Street, Map 15A, lot 20. Um, okay. Erin, would you Yeah, I think I saw
Lucky here. You want to bring him in and then take five minutes to present? Okay. Um, so commissioners may remember that um several months ago we reviewed and approved uh an affordable housing
project on the former East Street School site. Um the town acquired a grant to um uh do some restoration work in
association with that um affordable housing project. And um there's this very interesting old ball field behind the East Street School which formerly was probably like for recreation fields but um there is a stream that comes
through which um many decades ago was culverted underneath the basketball courts and um discharges down to the the fairing brook and um over time the coverts have become blocked. the water's flowing subsurface um and the entire
field has basically reverted to BVW, but it's still being mowed. Um there the field has been used for continued to be used for recreational purposes by the apartment complex behind the the project. Um, and so the town
wanted to do something to restore the stream um, and do some some resource area improvements there for drainage, uh, but also keep a portion of that field for recreational purposes. There there is the opportunity right now for people to walk from the apartments um,
across to the school site to get down to towards Fort River. And so we wanted to maintain that. And so in the course of the restoration, in order to maintain that access, we had to make sure there was a bridge and a walkway incorporated. Um so the town um did work with Bucky to
get this plan established. Uh it's been primarily led by the planning department, but I've had quite a bit of um input in terms of helping to um make sure that it was designed in compliance with the regulations. So um it's been reviewed by staff and revisions have
been incorporated. And so you're seeing really like a a final product. So I'm really interested to have Bucky share it with you today and happy to answer any questions if I can. Thanks Aaron. Welcome Bucky. Want to Good evening. Thank you. Um uh yeah, I am Bucky
Sparkle and Erin. Thank you for giving half of the presentation right there for me. So it'll, you know, just speed things right along here. Um, what I'm going to do is, uh, share my screen here and,
uh, and and dive in. Um, so, um, this is the the Wayfinder site, 31 South Street aerial view. Um, and it should look familiar because of the niche engineering NOI that was approved, um, something like a year or so ago. Uh, in
this uh, blue line, we've got the Kellogg Brook coming in. it turns into a culvert system, failed culvert system, and continues back out. Um, and you can also see some of the old markings. I'm not sure how old this picture is, but um there's even goalposts here for the that
area. Um, move the zoom window. So, um um Aaron already did this. Uh the applicant is the town of Ammerst and Wartsmith and Heather Comey did the
wetland work for uh the Wavefinders plan. All right. So taking a look looking uh eastward here the existing conditions you can see the lawn athletic field and the sort of yellow and dot dashed line is roughly the perimeter of
the BBW. So the foreground is BBW and just the the island of asphalt is not. The dashed orange line is the approximate location of the failed coververt system. Um there is uh in the region BPW land underwater and bank but
we are only going to be working within the BBW uh and creating land underwater and bank as part of this ecological restoration project. Um plan view um should be somewhat familiar I bet um from the
niche plan but um Kellogg Brook comes in and the culverts are here. Kellogg Brookbrook continues. Uh you can see in green the BBW line so it's just the pavement and the developed area to the east. We're not quite sure where the BBW ends to the west. We're just assuming it
is all BVW. Uh that wasn't really delineated. It probably does p out somewhere but um it's mostly BVW. could also see there's the existing pathway that cuts through the shrubbery that um it loses definition once it gets out into the open, but we're going to
formalize that path as part of this project. So, let's take a look at what we're doing. Um the asphalt footprint changes because what I've done is I've used the um wayfinder plan as the template for the paved area. They're
also putting a wooden guard rail around the paved area. And you can see uh Kellogg Brook um is diverted into a new uh stream channel. So this is going to be a grass line swale circuitous flow uh create a little extra bank and a little
more hydraulic detention time on site uh before discharging at where the culverts now terminate. You can also see the path from the west is formalized. We're going to be installing an open graded stone material. Uh that is the same material
that was used out on the Ammeris Wildlife Sanctuary that is seems to be really quite successful now. And I'm I'm specking that out on all my new trail projects. Um and you can see this brown rectangle that is the uh
pedestrian/DPW maintenance bridge. Um it is uh necessary to continue to maintain the property. Uh the majority of the property is still going to be kept for recreational purposes. Um overall, because we're getting rid of a covert, daylighting a
stream, we are creating 377 ft of bank. We're restoring almost 5,400 square ft of BBW and creating 282 ft of land underwater. Um quickly is the erosion
control plan. Um you can just sort of see the the light magenta lines where we've got perimeter controls. We've got inch channel controls. Uh stockpiles of materials as they come in and out are meant to be kept on the paved surface with a little bit of perimeter control around. It's unlikely, but in the event
that we need dewatering, uh there's dewatering area that's more than 50 ft away from the stream edge. Um, we are also planning to uh build the channel, seed it and get a good month or so growth on it, a vegetative growth, have
it be fully stabilized before uh we uh terminate and and actually get rid of the uh existing culvert and redirect uh the stream. So most of the channel will be fully stabilized except for a little bit of you know sort of a a bulkhead at
the north and south ends of the channel um until the day it's open for business. Um looking at the the vegetative restoration plan here uh the uh this is the area of disturbance that's been colored. So the very
lightest areas around the path uh the DPW still wants to have mobile grass there. that makes sense around a pedestrian pathway. The dark green is a blend is the channel and you know BVW as well low elevation. So that is going to
be a blend of the New England wetland plants wet mix kind of the go-to seed mix for um doing restoration areas. Also, we are blending in an amount of their erosion control and restoration mix. And the reason for that is um just
the wet mix as you know slow growing plants. They take a long time to be established and they're not particularly great with velocity. So, we're looking at um uh trying to make sure the stream channel is stable um after just a few
weeks or a month or two. Um so we are adding some other vegetation there. Um up this olive area is additional BBW and upland area. You can see east of the line and we are looking to blend in
conservation wildlife mix with shi wild flower mix. So it's a both um a food source and uh uh be uh something somewhat attractive. Uh, and then that I I almost
beat the timer. Um, that is the the gist of the plan. And I'm Oh, we're also going to add bounding. I'm sorry. Just to say on the west side and on the east side, we'll have signs and permanent boundary markers to be determined. I want to talk to the DPW and see see what they have to offer for that before I
just specify something. But that concludes the presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions. Great. Thanks, Fox. We like seeing these restoration projects. They're nice. Um, and thanks Erin for working on this, too. So, if there's any
public comment, please raise your hand. Seeing none off the bat, I'm going to go to Bruce. Go ahead, Bruce. Well, since this touches both of my enthusiasms, daylighting and culverts to to close the hearing.
Thanks, Bruce. Um, I understand that there was a sort of a late notification to wayfinders and may there might be interest in letting them just review this since they are the leies of a land um before. So, in discussion with Aaron,
we were thinking maybe we could ceue up the order of conditions tonight, have our discussion, and then um it will be a a quick vote on them for the next time once we've given the wayfinders folks to just look at it, of course. Um Okay. Uh
Rachel, um lovely project. I just have some technical questions. um wondering about just how I've seen um stream connections perform with water flow and wondering about the geometry of of the of the
point you're connecting in and how you're redirecting the water if you're going to do any reinforcing at those bins and those turns to keep from scouring continuing through the newly made path. Yeah, let's see. [Music]
Um so I had let's see the first thing is um the existing Culver is going to be as as poorly as it's functioning the primary way for Kellogg Book Brook to be conveyed until the channel is built and fully stabilized with vegetation. So it
it will be pretty easy um to just remove a little bit of soil here and a little bit of soil here at the north and south ends of the project to let the stream come through. Also that can be done um ideally during some dry weather um so
we're not getting a deluge of water on day one. There'll be a little bit of unstabilized earth. We are using um fully biodegradable uh quar mats or um mesh not mats but mesh um to stabilize the channel and the side slopes. Um so
we should be in pretty good shape along that way. I did uh the velocities are really quite low. I I looked at the um 500year storm, right? Like the biggest freaking storm that we could send at this thing that you know we can conceive
and we're still getting velocities that are less than half of the velocities considered to be erosive for an enormous storm. So since that's almost never going to be the case, and even if it were the case, um uh I don't I don't have any concern with a a vegetative
surface being adequately stable for the velocities in this channel. Um and and do we need any sort of bankful benching within the channel to allow for for bigger flows versus lower flows? Well,
the the way if let me zoom in here just a little bit. Um, if we get into some elevation questions, the the reality of of this is during that, you know, 25 year storm, it's never going to leave
the channels. Uh, for that the 100red-year storm and the 500year storm, it is likely that we are going to get water um as high as about almost elevation 184, which is about the bank. But you can see that 184 does come uh
around the uh trail over here. So the um the waterway very well during you know the most like hurricane level storms um flood into um this area of the trail flood up into this little swale which is
um we need to draw the a little low spot through here to pull the water off the pavement um and get that into the stream. Um so but but mostly we are going to be stuck in um a nice little narrow channel that's normally well
normally dry. Um that's you know I've only been to this site I've been to the site maybe five times and uh four times it was bone dry. Um so you know it's it's not a big system. It really is only a a storm uh a storm discharge system in
town. So I think we're going to be good shape. And then the the slopes within the channel do they match the slopes up slope and downs slope? There uh is a wild disparity. Ups slope it is a giant flood plane. There is no channel. Um no
meaningful channel. Uh when you get down see my draggy around tool. Um when you get down to here it is also a large wide flooded area. So the the reality is uh and it does it does become a little channelized as you get farther on the
private property. There are a couple little foot bridges um that are maybe you know five fivet long six feet long uh to cross from edge of bank to edge of bank and uh that part is a very similar
profile to what uh we are providing uh through the channel through the town's property. Thanks Becky. Thanks Rachel. Jason, some somewhat along the lines of Rachel's question, Bucky, the point
where Kellogg Brookke comes in uh right where where it's basically turning. Yeah, right up there. How is that going to be? You said upstream is a flood plane and that it's not really channelized, but
what protection is going to be there? because it takes quite a turn if your if your dash blue line is that's because you're looking at a dash blue line. Let's let's look at this over here. We have elevation 183.18, elevation 183.51, elevation
183.74. There is 6 in of elevation distance all the way through here. This is a large quescent settling pond. As of today, there is no channel anymore. There's no the culverts are not exposed.
Um there's some suggestions with leaf movement about maybe where they are, but uh I couldn't find them. DPW couldn't find them. The surveyors couldn't find them. Um so what what we're doing is we're taking water with a velocity of
nearly zero by the time it gets here and then channelizing it. You can also see that my contours do magically just end. Isn't that Isn't that a good design trick? Um because we're really blending in with we have inches. We're we are just taking this wide area and we're
going to be uh lowering uh a sort of flume like um this northern lot line till it matches the elevation on the abuter's property at the low point. The the absolute low point. I went out there, took my own measurements at the
property line is um uh right right here where I'm starting the stream. So, I'm starting at the lowest possible accessible point. Um I bet there's actually lower ground over here. I bet it ponds, but that is not uh the town's property. We don't get to do much in it,
and I would rather not ditch through an existing wetland, too. Thank you. Thanks, Bucky. Okay. I've seen no public hands raised for this project. Um, do we want to just discuss the order of conditions so we can cue
this up for next time, Erin? Do you have that drafted or are we going to review that next time? Um, I did draft the order and I put it in the in the folder. Um, I can pull it up if you want and I can run
through it. Um, I think while it's fresh in our minds and we've just reviewed everything, maybe we could just run through it and then um this is more administrative for the the next time. Sure.
Um, so I'm just going to there both of the documents are the same. Um, so I'm just going to pull up the the state version. Um, and Bucky, I'm going to just steal the screen for a minute. And Buck, you've had a chance to review these and talk to Erin about them. So
earlier earlier today, uh, we went through a couple of minor changes, but they're they're really solid. I'm good with them. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, a pre-construction meeting prior to the start of work. Um, just making sure that we specify no
standalone black filter fabric because I've had a bunch of contractors trying to use that by itself and just trying to be very specific. Um, specifying that this work be done during dry conditions and we are hoping for the end of this summer to do this
work. So that's going to hopefully align with that. Um, the specification about the channel being constructed prior to the culverts being removed. Um I was mostly concerned about water moving through this before the um channel was stabilized and fully constructed. Um
specifications about keeping turbid water on the site during construction um to make sure that there's adequate protections um provided by the contractor in the event that there's turbidity coming out of the culvert or out of the um covert or the um the
channel at any time. again specifying only biodegradable erosion control blankets which are already in Buckyy's specs. I'm just reinforcing that. Um and again there's there's a little bit of sort of repetition in this but I do that intentionally because sometimes
contractors need reminders. Um uh no field changes. Uh a final inspection to be completed by me prior to the removal of erosion controls. Um a note about snow storage. Just a reminder really because I'm concerned that um
contractors may try pushing snow storage into this which um we want to make sure doesn't happen. Um notes about permanent bounding and so you know bounding in the form that we typically require for a mitigation or restoration project. um
split rail fencing, boulders, rebar, wooden posts, and then some sort of signage that identifies this area as a mitigation area or uh ecological restoration in perpetuity. And then um a final inspection um at the completion of all
work and and those are the special conditions. The boiler plate would also be attached, but that's just what I have as a sort of a a starting draft at this point. Great. Thank you. And commissioners, are there any comments or questions about the order of conditions? And so again, the point is that um we
have the discussion now and presumably way bearers aren't going to have any significant changes, but we want to give them a chance to look at the pro the plan. Okay, seeing none. Okay. Um, I think we can move on, but we need
a motion to continue this. Yes. I moved that we continue the public hearing for 31 Southeast Street, DP D number 0890754 with standard and special uh
conditions. second. So, um I just want to make sure that that's actually a motion to approve the the order of conditions. Um to continue the hearing.
Okay. Sorry, there was a notation about standard and special conditions. So, I want to some of the wording was a little was a little off and the draft presentation versus what I have right now is a little different because of conversations that were had since the PowerPoint was sent out. Um, and provide
me with the language I need to make the motion, please. I think it's on the screen, Bruce. Yeah, and my apologies for that. It was a last minute thing about wayfinders having a chance to review this. I move to continue the public hearing for 31 Southeast Street P
0890754 to May 28th, 2025 at 7:45. I think Rachel got that. So, Bruce on the motion, Rachel on the second, Jason, I Rachel, hi, Bruce. Hi, Alex. I Andre,
hi. Okay, thank you. I see public hand up. I'll take public comment at the end of the hearings. Um, so we already moved through the public comment period for this one. Okay. Thank you, Bucky, for joining. Um, sorry we couldn't move this this time, but we'll see you next time for a for a quick hopefully I'll be
back. Thank you very much. Have a good night. Okay. So, next up, new hearing. So, this hearing is being called for to order as requ held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the commonwealth and act relative to the protection of the
wetlands as most recently amended in article 3.31 wetlands protection on their town of Ammeris general bylaws. So this is a notice of intent for GZA Geo Environmental Incorporated on behalf of Archipelago Investments LLC and Hampshire College for proposed mixeduse
residential development at 0 West Bay Road, map 25B, lots 52, and 0 West Street, map 25, lot 58. Proposed work includes construction of three mixeduse residential structures with associated parking, storm water, remediation, and
landscaping, portions of which are located within buffer zones to bordering vegetated wetlands, DP number 0890752. Okay. And we're going to provide five minutes for Aaron and then Erin, I assume you see names for the
applicant. If you could bring them in or applicant could raise hand. Yeah, there we go. I can bring them in if you want to start the presentation. Sure. Um, so the first thing I just want to say, um, for everybody's information,
including the public, is that, um, I did file a, um, conflict of interest, um, appearance of a conflict of interest form with the town manager on this particular project. um and was approved
to continue on um serving uh the town through this project review. Um primarily because I have relatives who live within 750 ft of the site. Um so I still feel like I can um they're they're
actually not direct abutters. They're not within the um a butter notification um area. So, um I still feel like I can conduct a um an unbiased review of the project. So, I just wanted to disclose that information at the start of the hearing.
Um so, I did send some initial comments um to the applicant on this project and I know uh at least one commission member has sent some questions to the applicant and I want to give the applicant uh the opportunity to respond to as many you
know questions and comments as possible. Um, so I'm going to yield some of my time. I think the the initial comments that I wanted to share were um just that I think the first place to start is the wetland delineation on this and to make sure that the wetland delineation is
accurate. The delineation that was provided to us was over 3 years old um at the time of submission. So I did ask that the applicant have their um wetland professional go back out and verify that the wetland line is still accurate. Um, I understand that the um that Ward
Smith, the um wetland scientist on this project, did go back out and uh took a second look and and change some flags. Um the I did advise the applicant that we would need to see the revised plans that show that um revised wetland
boundary and they didn't have adequate time to get us the plan a week ahead, but they wanted to proceed with the presentation tonight. So, I just wanted to to put that out there. Um, and from a staff perspective, I haven't delved into the storm water review in any great
detail because I feel like the first step is for the commission to determine whether or not they're willing to issue a variance to the 50-foot um no work zone which is associated with this project. And we also have a um an exceedence on the 20% alteration
threshold. Uh I believe that this project is altering up to 70% of the buffer on the site. So, there's a couple um uh local bylaw regulatory um areas where um uh allowances were exceeded.
And so I want to make sure that the commission is comfortable with um the waivers, the waiver requests, and that there's some additional um opportunity for uh the applicant to present uh what their proposed mitigation plan might be so the
commission can consider whether it's willing to grant those waiverss. So, I'll um yield my time back for others to to um because I know there's going to be a lot of comment on this tonight, but those are just the basics. Thanks, Sarah, and welcome Dylan and Mark. Is
there anybody else here that I should um let in to panelist? Uh no. Um Kyle Wilson wanted to be here. Unfortunately, couldn't make it last second. So, I'll let Mark formally present, but I'm here on behalf of Archipelago to answer any questions we might have. Um Thank you.
And uh yeah, I'll hand it off to Mark. There should be two other representatives from GZA. Steve Dmio and Robin Pis. I can't pronounce the last name off the top of my head. Okay, Robin, if you're here, uh raise your
hand and I'll find you that way. Thanks. I got Stephen. Okay. Um well, if you if you want to start your five minute presentation, please feel free. One of other colleagues should be joining.
So um the site consists of two parcels as Aaron said the beginning said um zero westbay which is postal 52 and um zero west street which is postal
58. Um the proposed project is a threestructure multi-story multi- use residential structure um with associated parking and drainage. The existing lot 52 um
currently slopes away from the BVW and consists of a meadow with um brush, weeds, and some mature trees that are along West Bay Road. And there's approximately um 24,600
um square feet of buffer within the 0 to 50, which is this orange line. And then another 26,800 square feet of buffer between the zero to or the 50
to 100 on the zero westbay parcel. As you can see by the contours, the existing puzzle kind of grades away from the BVW. The land palo or po 52 backwards
um has approximately 10,752 square ft of buffer between the 0 to 50 and approximately 6,150 square ft of buffer between the 50
to 100. Again, the property generally grades away from the resource area towards the corner of Landon and West Street. Um, this person is also mostly overgrown brush with some
portions of meadow and small sections of trees. The proposed project consists of two buildings on the um West Bay property and a connecting drive called a
wound that's going to connect the intersection of Goldway and Landon to Rambling and provide parking and pedestrian access between the two. Um, as you can see, this is where we encroach the most on the 50 foot
buffer. The site itself or the proposed grading of the site is all away from the wetland resource area. And the storm drainage or storm water will be collected in deep some catch basins and routed to subsurface infiltration and detention
system before being discharged the municipal drainage system at the corner of um gold and west bay appeal. If you can see my mouse,
the Zero West Street property will consist of one multi-story multi-use building um with associated parking. The storm water again will be collected in deep some catch basins routed to a subsurface
infiltration and detention system prior to be discharged to the municipal system. Again, this site is grading away from the resource area. Um, the comments that we received from the commission member are here and
we provided Aaron with a written response to them. Um, some of the comments we are still working on preparing a actual plan response to. Um, one of the large questions that Aaron had was what we would be proposing for
mitigation. And after discussing with the client Oko and Okapalago um currently a proposed mitigation would be plant native pollinator plants within the between the driveway and fence of
the wound and fence and then between the fence line and the um DVW to control the evasives that were found on site. Um, another large part of this is both
properties contain lead arsenic that will be removed and that's the reason why we are showing a chain link fence along the BBW area to delineate where a client will be removing the contaminated
soil. And that's about all for the presentation at this point. Thank you, Mark. Um, all right. We're going to go to public comment. So, please raise your hand if you'd like to make a statement. We're going to keep public comment to
two minutes. And Aaron will be using the timer. So, when you hear the music, um, please end your comment. Thank you. I see Jennifer Hixon's hand up first. So, Jennifer, I'm going to allow you to talk. Uh, thank you very much, Michelle. appreciate the opportunity to speak to
the um the commission. So, uh at the last meeting that uh couldn't take place, um I sat and listened to all of you talk about um all of the animals that were in your yard. I think the list was deer,
bear, bobcats, foxes, and we have those too um right here in our neighborhood, and they will be completely obliterated by this project. Um, I want to just stay say again, there's a reason why bylaws
are created um in towns to protect uh from structures that don't belong in places uh to not be built. And I think this is one of those perfect examples. So again, I appreciate the time to comment and I will um direct the rest of
my time to our property manager, Gary Spaith, if that's okay with you. Um chairperson Is Gary with you right now or is Gary Okay, he's here. Okay, thank you very much everybody.
Okay, I see. Um, I'm going to go in order of raised hands or as they appear on my screen. Um, Maria, go ahead. Hi, Maria Capiki 65 Country Corners Road uh she her. Um, I hope that you guys got
a chance to read my uh letter that I sent to you. I'm extremely troubled by the fact that uh the wetlands are being not just encroached upon but really kind of decimated. I mean the the 0 to 50 the
50 to 100 it's it's 80% of the 50 to 100 uh buffer zone. Um and uh if you look at a map the the wetlands take up about 50% of both of the parcels put together. Right?
There's very little space uh that anything should be built here. And I really I strongly strongly strongly encourage the conservation commission to hold to the wetland bylaws and not allow this. It is just far too big of a
project for this space. And that's that's what we're concerned about. We have no objection to this area being developed, but it must be developed with respect for the wildlife, for the wetlands, for the humans that live uh um in this area. Um one other thing, I
realize that it is not your issue to deal with parking, but the the plans that you're being shown show very inadequate parking for the development that's being proposed. And um the uh archipelago is saying that they're
planning on having all on-site parking, but please, as much as you can, pay attention to the fact that if that was really the case, there would have to be a lot more of this property taken up with more impervious surface to accommodate the number of parking spaces
that would be required. 262 bedrooms, only 140 parking spaces for residents. That's just not gonna fly in this area of South Ammerst where I wish we could walk everywhere we'd love to go, but you can't. You need a car to get around. Um,
and so um again, I I I hope that you've read uh what I've sent in and I'm looking forward to hearing you talk about uh the wetlands and about the storm water when you get to that uh presumably a different hearing. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks,
Maria. Carol McNary. Hello, I'm Carol McMary. I live at 115 Spencer Drive, Ammerst. Um, I do sent a letter and and I won't repeat what's in my letter.
Um, there's two things. I used to um walk around in those wetlands. I'm familiar familiar with them and they've got all kinds of wonderful stuff going on in there. And um I think that the ecology of
wetlands is way more complex than a mitigation effort to plant some trees would really impact. Um wetlands are basically
irreplaceable. You you really can't fix a degraded wetland. The other thing is that um in my wanderings in there, there's a there's a pool and I spent today calling around asking if anybody knew is this a vernal
pool and um nobody was really sure but I think that in in looking into this uh request for the special varian special whatever um that that should be investigated and
um you know there as as Maria said, there are these these uh regulations for a good reason. Uh there are also state wetland protections that have been in place since 1983 and I think they're there for a
good reason. Thank you. Thanks, Carol. Um next up is Sandy. Um I'm Sandy Alberts and Shay. I live at Applewood at 222 Spencer Drive. Um, I just wanted to say that I'm so grateful
there is a conservation commission that has bylaws and while I know that this area has been zoned to be developed, um, I am hoping that the conservation commission will honor the bylaws that
you have drawn up um, and have lived with for so long. Um, I care about wetlands and um, I'm trusting you to care about them as well. Thank you,
Sandy. Um, I have Gary. Hello. Can you hear me? We can we can hear you. Um, hi, I'm Gary Spaith. I am the property manager for um, Hampshire Village. Uh we have a pool that kind of
abuts the the property. Um we're right behind where you intend on building. Uh many concerns um not getting into the infrastructure and the drainage. Uh but there is a wetland there. Uh and over
the last two years there's been quite a bit of change and I don't know if it's just the water table or the wetland or if it's been disturbed. Um, right now if you go to our pool and our tennis court, there is a huge pond uh puddling that
was never there before. Um, we also have a pit in the ground with our water meter for the pool and the pool house that um I need to pump out daily because it's filling up with water um groundwater.
and um looking at the plan and everything, I I I just have a hard time believing that you're going to be able to, you know, this water's going to run off. Um you're going to be able to hold things back. Uh that brook, we have two bridges
over the brook um on a path going to the pool. Those bridges have been underwater for the last two days. So, um I just don't see how this area is um going to work out for this project. Um and that's
just two or three quick observations in the last couple um days in the area. So, um I guess my big question is what if this doesn't work out as the engineers say they will? Then what? Okay. Thank you, Gary.
Um, I have Lisa next. Good evening everyone. Can you hear me? We can. Okay. Um, my name is Lisa Jurus and I live at 22 Macintosh Drive. I'm in the Upper Orchard condominiums just behind Atkins. I can't speak for the wildlife,
but I can say but that my neighbors and I really do support thoughtful development for the property. Um, we understand the need for new housing. We're not against growth, but this project as it currently is proposed raises serious concerns, especially when
it comes to the wetlands and and protecting them. About half of it is, as you've heard and you know, um half of the site falls within a 100 foot wetlands buffer zone. The plan would not only um falls within that zone but also
within the 50 foot no work area disturbing roughly half of this very sensitive space and on top of that about 80% of the area between 50 and 100 ft from the wetlands would also be developed which is far more than is typically
allowed. So as stated we know the rules exist for good reasons. They help protect our wetlands, reduce flooding risk, and keep our environment healthy. So, all we're doing is simply asking that the project follow the rules, and be scaled appropriately for the site.
Um, we think there's a real opportunity to create something meaningful, a real village center that is um includes unique, you know, commercial use, reflects unique role for the intersection, but it deserves a plan that reflects long-term community mind
thinking. and that's what really needs to be taken into account. So, we hope and trust the commission will take a close look at the scale of the project, ensure the pro approval stays true to the purpose of the regulations. Um, thanks for all you guys do for
protecting us and our community. Lisa Sherry. Um, can you hear me now? We can. Yes. Uh, thank you for allowing the public to speak. Uh, Archipelago has
repeatedly said that the Atkins Corner site is challenging for building anything. And yet, they propose a very large project that builds right up to the wetlands, which as you all know are
critical for our future, particularly with climate change. And truly the storm water runoff um from the parking lots and the physical presence of three fourstory
buildings won't be good for the adjacent wetlands. Um I'm hoping that the conservation commission will look carefully at the existing bylaws and whether this project meets the
requirements. I don't believe that it does, but I'm not an expert as you are. Um, we do want development there, but not on this scale, and we want development that is respectful of the
wetlands and the community that already exists. Thank you, Sher. Yeah. Sherry, could you give us your address, please, for the records? For Macintosh, which is an upper orchard
um behind behind pens and behind Applewood Sherry. Um Kathy, hi everyone. Can you hear me? Yep. Great. Thank you. Um, my name is Kathy Melly and I live at 8 Macintosh Drive,
also in the Upper Orchard and my pronouns are she, her, hers. Uh, thank you all for the opportunity to comment on this proposal. I will be brief. Um, I want to really echo the concerns raised by my neighbors about the potential
impact of this project on area wetlands and the protected environment. I'm not opposed to new housing and a village center in this area, but I would like to see this plan changed to avoid uh any
potential negative impact. Um, and you know, hope the developers will consider revising their plans and coming up with something that's more modest uh that will comport with wetlands protection bylaws. So, I really urge the commission to uphold the wetlands bylaw, deny the
variance, and prevent harm to the protected environment. Thank you very much. Thanks, Kathy. Um, so I see no more hands up, so I'm going to close public comment. We're going to go to commissioners. So, commissioners, five minutes each,
please. Um, Rachel, I know you had some Oh, Jason's got you, but we'll go to Jason first. Jason, go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Um the setback on the front along West Bay Road for the
um building one and two, it's roughly, it looks, it appears to be roughly 37 ft. Um is that a required setback? Was that or 33 feet maybe? Um is there a reason that it's
set back at that distance? Um, and can everything be potentially pushed forward towards West Bay Road to potentially take that wound or areas out
of out of the the setbacks? So, can I answer? Yeah, I'll jump in. You can follow after me, Mark. Does that work? Hm. If you want to go first, I can follow after you if you want. Yeah. Um, so the buildings are pushed towards the
center of the site due to how the site grades and the high groundwater. Um, we are proposing the subsurface infiltration systems, but they are going to be um
within clean fill. And to do that, to um have the drainage and meet the storm water groundwater separation requirements, we had to slide the infiltration unit to that norththeastern corner of the site, which led the
subsurface infiltration or um detention system to also be within that location. As you move closer to the um BVW, the groundwater gets like 12 inches below grade. So, and as
you move to West Bay, it deepens to close to two to three feet below. Um the other aspect and reason why the Wolf is where it's located is to utilize the curb cut that the town left. Um to us it
appeared that the town would was planning on continuing Landon to Rambling through that um curb cut that they left at the end of Landon Lane. Um Dylan if you want to respond anything else. No, that that sums it up pretty
good. Mark the topography made it challenging. There was only one spot to put the water retention on site uh which kind of set the layouts of the buildings. Um, the other factor is the topography and where parking can be put. Um, and ADA compliance. If you shift the
drive aisle too far to the north, you start to get a steep pitch. Uh, and it it would it impacts the ADA requirements needed uh for parking. You mentioned uh that the or it was mentioned that the infiltration basin is
going to be in clean fill. It's my understanding that this area is heavily contaminated with lead arsenic in the soil from the former apple orchard operations that were there and that a significant amount of soil is
going to need to be removed. There's going to be a significant export of contaminated soil and then import of queen fill. Can you discuss how much soil you're going to be exporting and how much you're going to be importing to lift this site?
I do not have an approximate number or quantity of the amount of clean fill that's going to be brought onto the site. I know Aapalago is planning on removing the 12 in of impacted soil across the site up to the shown um
chainlink fence. That is going to be the limit um that's going to delineate where the soil has been removed and where there is still less neck. multiple um concepts will develop
through the planning process and each one we like we kind of reduce the amount of fill that was going to be brought onto the site. Um in the to get the drainage to work now we're bringing close
to seven feet of fill in that north eastern corner I believe off the top of my head. Um, but overall I don't know the exact quantity of fell that would be brought onto the site. Were there any alternatives where the
Woo Nerf doesn't exist and that area is just left um for lack of better terms undeveloped and any parking shifted to uh I don't it the eastern roadway
appears to be unnamed or Lannon way having additional parking Lon Lane I'm Sorry. Down. Some of the first um concepts had the buildings closer to the wetland, but
then we realized the 75 ft building set back and the steep driveway incline, which the town itself has a regulation on. Um it can only be a certain percentage pitch. Um, and then in order
to get the drainage to work, that driveway would only be able to be accessed off of rambling. And the purpose of the driveway is to um to create that community aspect and let the people that live in the condominiums
west of the proposed development to access Atkins easily without having to walk along West Bay Road, which is busy and there's no sidewalk currently. And another important um part is we've we've talked with Chief Baskam of the Amoris
Fire Department and they need that drive aisle access um in order to service those buildings appropriately. So something I do want to bring up about that werf and the topography though that Mark mentioned in his presentation is it does pitch away from the wetlands.
Um I thought that would be that's pertinent to know. Thanks, Jason. Are you are you good? Yeah. My only other question would have been, is there not going to be a sidewalk installed along West Bay Road?
It appears that there's one. Yeah, there is a sidewalk. Uh we're going to complete the town's sidewalk on West Bay Road. Um the Wounderf would be accessible to the public um to be able to walk through though. There would be a sidewalk on the northern side of that
Wounderf. Okay. But there will be if that wound didn't exist, there would still be a nexus using the sidewalk on West Bay Road. That that is that is correct. Um the issue we ran into is the fire access drive aisle. Okay. I also
want to caution that we show the sidewalk with the um belief that we would get permission from DPW to install additional catch basins along West Bay Road. Because as of right now, that is the town's drainage along West Bay Road
is the swale along the southern side that we would have to fill in with the sidewalk. So, if the town wouldn't allow us to um install the catch basins, then we would probably remove that sidewalk and keep it a swale.
Okay. Thank you, Alex. Go ahead. Yeah, I um I have uh comments in a couple of areas. I'll be brief as I can and I want to start by saying
uh that my comments are made in all due respect to the folks that have worked on this project to develop it in partnership with Hampshire College who owns the property and the town has been looking
for housing to increase and I understand that there is a possibility that even child care would be provided on the ground floor of one of the buildings and that would be uh uh very useful but I
want to say that I have a dim view of granting waiverss that you request. Um, I won't go into any more detail, but um, uh, it would take an awful lot for me to be convinced that
granting those waiverss is useful when I think there might be some alternatives. Hampshire College found property to build the Yiddish bookstore. It also found property to build the Eric Carl Museum.
mitigation that you suggest planting plants. I could not agree that that's mitigation for the impacts that your project would cause. Mitigation starts with avoidance and is followed by
minimization. So avoidance would be to to if the project is to stay on the same site, avoidance would be to to reduce the project. eliminating a building, for example, giving more room for parking.
Minimization follows the same path. And I would suggest that Archipelago and you folks sit down with Hampshire College um who has a big interest in this
project and see if there isn't another site on the campus that has far fewer challenges and see if you can't build the same project elsewhere on their campus. Obviously, there was a big
discussion that went on to choose this area for this project. I'm not privy to that. I don't need to know any of that discussion. But if there is an area on the campus where this same project could
essentially be picked up and put down absent wetlands, absent controversy, absent challenges, um it would be a hell of a good project for the town and it would accomplish a lot of things the town's looking for. So I would encourage you to have that
conversation with Hampshire College. Even if you've already had the conversation, please have it again. Um, that's all I'll say. Thank you very much. And again, I say this with due respect for all the work you're doing to
provide a project that in another site with less challenges would be beneficial to the town. Thanks, Alex. Andre, can I respond to Alex's? Sure.
Uh for context, this site is being proposed by Hampshire because it's the last parcel in a village center. Um this project is not student housing. This is mixeduse multifamily housing. Uh it's something that Hampshire thinks they don't have a use for and can see the
town having value for to increase tax base and that's why the site has been proposed. Thank you. So, can I can I just say uh uh offer a comment to what Dylan just
said? Sure. You have 30 seconds left in your in your fight. Go ahead. Okay. So, Archipelago is talking to Hampshire about buying this parcel. If it is permitted, then you would buy this parcel from Hampshire, which gives them
money that they need. If you picked it up and put it on the campus, I would hope that the same deal could go forward that you that parcel could be located someplace where archipella could in fact buy it and add to the tax base of the
town. Okay, Andre, go ahead, please. Thank you. I think um I I think I can't improve on uh on anything that uh Alex said. I concur
with uh with his um determination that uh that this is a bit much uh to uh to kind of let let slide, if you would. I mean, we do have uh these bylaws for a reason, and we've heard a lot of folks uh today um saying
they're trusting us to care for uh for these wetlands, and uh and that the uh bylaws are uh made to prevent um essentially the destruction of uh or the
the too much uh wetland destruction. So, uh, I just wanted to, uh, add my, um, my opinion in concurrence with, uh, Alex. Thanks, Andre. Any other commissioners? Okay. So, I just want to Oh, go ahead,
Rachel. Um, I just want to iterate I I don't don't want to take you through all the details in my in my letter and I appreciate your response to the letter, but I will be looking um, you know, if this project continues to be reviewed, I'll be looking for answers to my questions in detail. Um, and I and I I
know a lot of work has gone into the plan so far, but um, it's not at a level yet that we would expect to see for review with the commission. And you know, if we don't see it on the plan and we approve it, then we're like blessing you to do something and we have to live
with with that as you know, halfbaked plan. And so we're going to we want to see something really designed and engineered. We want to know that it's going to work. Um there are regulations for that and we're expecting to see that
um compliant with. Um also this is just a comment that I'm torn about even commenting on but I'll say it here a wounderf is a great thing and I encourage you to look at the precedents and what they look like because what
you're proposing is not not a traditional werf. So if it's parking lot call it a parking lot. Thanks. Thanks, Rachel. Bruce. Um, I'm largely in agreement with Andre
and Alex, and my simplified version of it is I don't feel comfortable with any more than just the barest minimal encroachment on the buffers, the different kinds of buffer zones that are set up for a purpose. I I don't feel a need to be rigorously
strict about it, but it better be pretty minimal. Thank you. Thanks, Bruce. So, yeah, I wanted to bring it back to the wetland and the delineation. So, I understand that some flags were recently moved by the wetland scientist um to refresh the delineation.
So, that's new information that we haven't yet reviewed and I think we'll want to go out on the site to look at that again. Um, so the NOI here is asking us both to approve the wetland boundaries and the project same time rather than starting with an ANRAD and
going forward with NOI. So, um I just want to poll and discuss with the commissioners um what your thoughts are on a peer review. Well, first I guess a second site visit if someone's if anyone's
interested in that and then I see hand um and then discussing a peer review on the wetland delineation if there's interest in that and timing. So after the site visit, um do you feel no need for a site visit and want to request it
now? Um and I think we need to to get the wetland delineation defined before we start talking about the storm water. Um so if anyone wants to raise their hand and a pine on that maybe or I'll just take a poll. So um let's
see. Does anyone raise your hand if you're comfortable with starting out with a second visit um to see the wetland delineation and then discussing a peer review on the wetland? Okay, that's a majority. Does
anyone want to move forward with a peer review without looking at the wetlands delineation again? Okay. So, it looks like um we are requesting a second site visit um to see the updated flaggings on the wetlands
and and I assume they're marked and ready to look at. Okay, great. Um and we have updated maps. We don't have an updated plan received yet, so we'll have to receive that prior to scheduling a site visit. Okay. Um All right. So, we
assume that we would be um continuing this tonight just because we haven't received all the information a timely manner, but we're going to guess I guess we'll take our next step with a another site visit to look at those wetland sites. So, I would ask that you just
talk to Aaron about that um offline. And again, um, reviewing Rachel's comments. I think we're all waiting for some answers to that and considering some of the comments made by commissioners tonight. And I guess I I
do want to offer for some context uh for previous projects when we're looking at mitigation. It's been, you know, on the order of three, five, even 30 to one uh replication. So I can tell you that the plantings um pollinator plantings on the
borders would not be considered mitigation for uh the development of the BBW and encroachment in the 50. But okay, any last questions,
comments? Okay, Jason. Yeah. Uh, I I'm going to echo what Rachel said about the Woo Nerf and its its purpose. Um, and also I don't know if this is necessarily an appropriate comment to make here either, but I've heard
this project be kind of presented in two ways. One that it's for Hampshire College and and then the other that it's for like market rate family housing. Um, and if it's for Hampshire
College, you know, we don't we don't get into parking or anything like that, but if it's for Hampshire College, I would think that reducing the parking in the wounder or potentially pushing it to other places would be uh something that could be done to get some of this
project out of the buffer zones u because it is right across the street. And if and so I would like to hear it presented as it's really truly meant to be. Um it sounds nice that it's family
housing, but then previously I've heard that it's basically for Hampshire College. So I'm a little confused as to what the actual intention is for it as well. And if it is, like I said, if it is for Hampshire College, I think some of that parking could be moved out of
that wound area. So, can I So, the original notice of notice of intent application referenced the college housing and that was a mistake on GCA's part. We um assumed that that's what the plan was since it
was dealing with Hampshire College. We were then informed that it is not. it is going to be market rate housing. So we issued a revised notice of intent application with that language removed. Um yeah and I I we saw your
correspondence in our folders clarifying that. So um I think going Jason are you satisfied with that explanation? Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, so I think we know what we need to do next. And so in that case, I'm looking for a motion to
continue this move to continue the public hearing for Zero West Pay Road and Zero West Street to May 28th, 2025 at 7:35 p.m. Andre on a motion. Bruce on the second.
Jason I. Rachel, hi. Bruce, hi. Andre, hi. Alex, hi. And I'm an I. Okay. Thank you, Dylan, Stephen, and Mark for joining us. We'll see you in a few weeks. Thank you. Thank you.
Night. Okay. Next up, we have notice of intent for R. Levesque Associates Associates Incorporated on behalf of Lawrence Hansen for the reconstruction of a proposed two family dwelling unit at 72 Curtis Place
structures, storm water and parking are proposed to be located within buffer zones and boring vegetated wetland DP number 0890753. So, the applicant has requested the continuation for this one. Thanks, the chair. Go ahead, Bruce. On my version, it says
you need to read something as the chair. This one's open, right? What was What do I need to read of the chair? There was a there was a revision to the PowerPoint after I sent it out, which was the opening, but we came to the determination that it had already
been opened at an earlier meeting. Okay. And my apologies. Sometimes there's some last minute changes when Michelle and I meet, so that was the edit. Okay. So, it's open. We're good. And we're looking for a motion to continue. I move to continue the public hearing.
Oops, that's the wrong one. Sorry, somebody else drew the motion. I'll move to continue the public hearing for 72 Curtis Place to May 28, 2025 at 7:40 p.m. Thank you. Second. Based on the motion,
Alex on the second. Jason I. Rachel. I. Bruce. Hi, Andre. Hi, Alex. I I'm an I. Okay. Um, next up, we have a request for minor
modifications to the order of conditions for 395 West Street, D number 0890701. Aaron, do you want to introduce this briefly? You're muted. Yes. Uh so I was approached by the land
owner who's um just mobilizing to start work um for a project at um 395 West Street. And I know Bruce has been keeping a close eye on this one um because the erosion control installation
has taken considerably longer than we would ordinarily see on a project. Um and um for those who aren't familiar with the site, it's the um Ammerst Office Park which um houses the USDA offices and there's some housing in
there. And there's also like Ammerst Gymnastics is in that same um part of that same um development area. But just to the north of that project, there is a single family home um which has a
driveway which goes over um it has kind of like a a burm that goes um over a wetland. It was obviously permitted a long time ago. Um and then there's a single family house back there and the proposal is to redevelop that single
family house lot into apartments. This this project was approved I want to say 2021 or 2022. Um not sure which commissioners may have been on the commission at that time or if that was permitted under the old board.
Um but the the issue that the landowner raised is that they're um the town recently reconstructed the roundabout and in the course of doing so um did a bunch of repairs to the catch basins
which are in the roadway around Route 116. And so previously um because the the um catch basins weren't very functional, there wasn't a lot of water coming off Route 116 and and um entering
in the wetland um that is to the south of the driveway. Um all of the the catch basins had failed basically and the water was just running down Route 116 and going directly towards the Plum Brook. But after that work was done on
the roundabout and Route 116, all of those drainage structures were were repaired. And now that landowner is seeing a considerable amount of water coming off Route 116 and entering the wetland, which is um to the south of
that driveway. And the concern is the concern that he's having is that that that wetland to the south is um is filling up with water and he's using that main access road during the demo and grading and um initial construction
phases um for construction access. and he's very concerned that the wetland is going to um become inundated and over top the roadway um during construction. And so
he's requested basically to um remove um and I can pull up the the request, but basically like a 3-ft by 3 foot um uh stone trench to be um constructed
perpendicular to the driveway to be able to like put some stone and a 12-in culvert pipe um to convey water from the wetland on the south side to the wetland on the north side. So if water needs to move during that project um and we've
got saltation barriers up now if water needs to move from one side of the wetland to the other during construction that it's not going to wash out the silt fence. Um so that's basically the request. Um it's particularly complicated because
this is all natural heritage and endangered species area for um a a threatened turtle. Um and right now the the erosion controls aren't completely installed. The silt fence is installed partially.
Um so the request before you is basically just to um modify the plan to install this drainage pipe uh during construction. And just to give the commission a bigger picture view of what this pro what's going to happen is
ultimately that driveway that's between these two wetlands is being removed as mitigation for the project and there'll be a um a pedestrian um uh uh boardwalk that's constructed from the um where the
apartments are going to be to West Street. So there'll be just a pedestrian walkway, boardwalk, and that whole driveway is going to be coming out at the end of this project. It's temporarily only being used again for demo and the initial phases of
construction and grading. And then once constructions um those construction phases are complete, then that driveway is coming out al together. So that's a little bit of backstory on it. Bruce. And so if they're going to take
the driveway out later, why can't they use the car access that they're going to have to have by some other pathway? Why can't they use that for the construction pathway also and take this
out now and just stop this? That was my that was my first question. Um, so I'm glad you asked it. Um, so they they are concerned about the level of um for the initial phases of construction, they're concerned about the vehicle traffic
going through the existing parking lot. And so they wanted to utilize this existing paved driveway as the construction entrance for the initial phases to just not disrupt the businesses and the apartments in the office park as much as possible. Um,
also they there there's a series of um uh infiltration basins which do partially come down um from the the west side of the site.
um they're actually east of the apartment building, but they're um and I can pull up a plan if this is easier to visualize, but anyways, they're going to they're going to need it for grading purposes to to pull some of the material out down through that eastern entrance.
Jason, thank you. Um I'm looking at a set of plans that's the erosion control plans that are in the um our packets and they have the proposed construction entrance
at at the at the end of the paved driveway. So I just I agree with Bruce and with your initial that's where they said they're going to put it. So, I mean, they're the ones that chose that location to be their construction
entrance. They didn't choose this driveway. Their erosion control plans just show basically the finished condition of the project. They don't show anything about any interim conditions. Um,
which plan are you looking at, Jason? Sorry. It's turtle protection letter. Yeah. So 13 of 16. Okay. Um yeah, I'm just not sure that
it's the full set of notice of intent approved. Um uh yeah, I mean I'm looking at what's in Yeah, it's a sign stamped set of plans. So Okay. I assume that it's a part of their approved set. Yeah, definitely. Um
let me let me just open it up. And I apologize because it's really hard for me to navigate through the file system while I'm hosting, but let me just see if I can grab a But what you know, and it's hard. It's I don't I don't know
what the current condition is, but I'm somewhat familiar with that driveway there. Um, but if their concern is that a paved driveway is going to over top during construction during very very large
storms and I just don't see that as being very much of a concern in that like it may happen a few times but what 8 hours after the rain event is finished they'll be able to use that driveway again. Like
how quickly is that water receding off of the driveway making it passable again? Yeah. So then them just being if that does happen like they can use it as much as they can but if that does happen where it's flooded they still have the option of using the construction
entrance that they specifically called out on their plans. Yeah. Yeah, I think they were more concerned about it washing material and washing over the controls and, you know, sending sediment down um into the wetland area. So, I can
do a quick screen share, but um the so the plan that's included in the turtle protection plan is sort of the the finished design, but they did um include a there's like a a sequencing. So, um,
they're in their approved plan set, and again, this isn't the complete plan set, which I can send to you guys if you'd like to see it, but they're they are this is so this is showing finished what we're looking at right now. Let me see if I can annotate for a second. Um, this
is the existing driveway coming in and up to a single family house, which is approximately here. So, they were planning to utilize this for the demo for the initial grading and um install of the the foundation and the drainage
structures and then they were going to sort of paint their way out of the of the site and then remove this bmed material. Um and at that point restoring this and then once all that work was done they were going to use the
alternate access which is up here. Um, so I did require them to submit two plans. One showing this as the construction entrance, which isn't this plan set, but there's a another um in the sequencing that shows this as the initial construction entrance. And then
once um this that initial con um uh phase of construction is done, then they would utilize this entrance. So, it's a little it's a little um um confused looking at the the turtle protection plan. Part of the reason why
I included this was just to make sure that you guys were aware that this is a site that is a sensitive site and is going to require um a biologist to be doing work. And I've already had to remind them um in the course of some of
the initial phases that if they had heavy equipment out there, they needed to have a turtle spotter. So, I am a little bit concerned about that. Um, and then the one other thing I wanted to mention was there's literally a 4-in pipe that's conveying water from this
large wetland to this large wetland and the water's moving um from south to north. So, um while I agree with the comments that everybody's making, I um and I'm comfortable with whatever the
commission wants to do here. Um, I also recognized the landowner was trying to sort of do the responsible thing in making sure there was adequate drainage underneath this access drive during the construction phase. So, um, but I'm if
the commission wants more information or some additional time to consider this looking at the full plan set, that's completely understandable. Um, and I'm, you know, happy to, and also if the commission doesn't think that the plan is appropriate to add the additional drainage pipe, then that's
also completely fine. Um, Andre, uh, I just wanted to add a little context to the, uh, to the project. I do remember when it uh when we approved it and we approved it um with that
uh access road as be as a temporary um way for them to uh to at least begin their um their project. Um I I remember a lot of thought being put into it as well. Um, and we were discussing the uh,
for example, in that drainage pipe you just mentioned, the uh, water going from one side to the other where there were uh, some invasives in this in the upland side of it. Um I I don't Yeah, I um so I
I'm comfortable with them using that um as something that we've already agreed with agreed upon uh in the past and have them shift over to that uh the other entrance uh once they uh move out.
[Music] if the, you know, if the uh new uh covert is going to be put in, did you say it's going to be removed, Erin, afterward? Right. So, this would
he's only asking for this pipe as a temporary measure um during construction just to make sure that the road doesn't get overt topped. Um and then once that phase of construction is completed where they finished those detention basins, that whole um driveway is coming out and
that area is being restored. All right. Yeah. I uh um you know, I can I I don't see a big deal uh with it over topping. I think uh just like Jason was saying earlier, but at the same time I believe that we've agreed to um you
know that in essence I don't think the the proposal is too big of a uh of a burden or too big of a of a deal for us to um go back on something we
already agreed on. So yeah, thanks for the context, Andre. Alex Erin, what would staff's recommendation be? That's a great question. Um, I mean, I
think every all of the vetting that you guys are doing, I've gone through the same vetting process myself. And I've also questioned whether the pipe is necessary. And I've also questioned will installation of the pipe cause more erosion during construction getting into
the wetland in in a rain event versus keeping it as is. Um, and I I'm hesitant as staff to say don't allow the drainage pipe because if it does over top and make a mess, then this landowner is liable. Um, but I also agree with you
that the chances of it overt topping are probably pretty slim. Um, he said that he saw the road nearly overtopped recently after a rain event and that's what caused him to submit this request was cuz he was worried about it. But he
did say um which is really interesting because we've been hearing a lot from people, members of the public tonight and others that what's happening with groundwater right now in town is very different than anything we've seen before. And so I think land owners are
just seeing that and trying to be overly cautious. So I do appreciate that and I think his his heart is in the right place and he wants to do the right thing and make sure that no damage is being caused by the project. Um, but I I have questioned also whether it's necessary
or not. So, I guess that's where I'm coming from. Yeah. Likely that significant flooding event that we just recently had. Um, okay. Bruce or Alex, are you done? I just wanted to give some feedback to
Aaron. Whatever her recommendation was, I second it. Okay. Thanks, Alex. Um, I'm I'm in favor of whatever process will get them working their way back out to to take the road out as quickly as
possible. So then that's a contractor point of view. The one thing I would say is it probably needs more active monitoring because part of the reason I got started to look at it a lot is because I was there I don't know 6:30 on
a Friday night and the guy is moving the front end dozer around built you know taking out the sides of the road to put up I assume to put up the fencing but it's like there certainly was no biologist there then and I just think
this the heart may be in the right place, but I think it's going to take some active monitoring of what they're doing. Well, I'm really glad that you said that, Bruce. Um, because I I did bring up the turtle I actually brought up the turtle monitoring and said, "Hey,
you guys have a dozer out there. You guys have a an excavator out there right now and it's active turtle season and you guys have a turtle protection plan. You guys need to have a biologist if you have that that going." So, um I think any correspondence we have with this
landowner, we need to reinforce the need for those orders of conditions and those natural heritage approvals to be followed um as they were approved. So, I 100% agree with you. Um and and I am not
opposed to the commission denying this request and saying, you know, come back to us if there's a problem, but right now we want you to follow these plans as they were approved by the commission. Um I think that's completely reasonable and I um don't see anything wrong with that
determination. Okay, let's try and wrap this one up, Jason. Yeah, just for clarification, two things. one. It says there's an existing 6-in pipe between the two right now. Correct. Yes. And I thought I heard you
mention a 4-in pipe, but the letter we have is a 12-in pipe. Yeah. So, he's he's wanting a bigger pipe. The pipe that's there is very small. Um like it's it's um ridiculously small. Like to me,
uh, having a a pipe that small to relieve pressure on wetlands of that that size and volume is, you know, it's not doing anything, barely anything at all um to to drain the the wetland that's to the south. Um, so I
may have said four um inches and misspoke. It may have been six inches, but I saw it in the field and it is um very very small. How are they proposing to put the pipe in? Are they going to cut through, lay the pipe, cover with
gravel, back fill it with gravel, and then repave on top or just leave it as a stone trench? Yeah, they were just going to leave it like a rip wrap almost like rip wrap construction entrance over the pipe. Um, what size stone? Like, so that
concerns me a little bit because yeah, if this, you know, what size stone are they going to be? If they're cutting through that burm and there's all this water now that's getting into this southern wetland and moving through it, it's not going to go through the pipe if those rocks are not big enough, it's
going to blow those rocks out, right? Um I believe and I asked that same question too. Uh cuz he initially said gravel and I'm like gravel that's pretty small. I was like, "You're you're thinking more like two or three inch rip wrap." And he said, "Yes." Um, but again, I think that
the request is a little vague. It's, you know, it's got to be 6 in stone. Yeah. Okay. We can I'm concerned with that. Okay. I mean, the one scenario is that we allow it with the conditions that you
guys are outlining right now. And one scenario is that we say we need more information and then one scenario is is saying no. So I Bruce your hand is up. So sorry. See whether there's any member of the
public here about this one. If anyone's here for this particular hearing or discussion, please raise your hand. Um yeah, I mean go ahead, Andre.
Yeah, I you know after uh after what I said earlier um I'll I'll say now that uh Erin's uh comment on you know well how about if we just uh leave it as is now and uh if
there's an issue then we address it on we address it when it occurs. I think that's quite reasonable. Okay, Erin, you mentioned the the land owner might have liability if something does happen. Is that I mean, should we we should be considering that that he's
trying to Well, he he's concerned that the commission would come back on him with enforcement action if if the wetland to the south fills up with water and washes through his construction access and causes damage to the wetland to the north. That's what he's concerned with is that the commission would get
upset with him that he didn't have adequate mitigation measures. he's laid the risk out that he wants to make sure that we're comfortable with if we if we move to not approve this minor modification. So, um I'm sensing a gel
around leaving asis. Um I'll take a show of hand. Who's in favor of not approving this minor modification? Leaving as is. Okay, I am too. Okay, so we Erin. Yeah. So, please
communicate to him that we understand what his concern is and we discussed it and it's understood by the commissioners. Alex, I didn't see your hand up, but I think we had a Okay. um what his concern is and that we have decided collectively that we're
uh I guess are we deciding collectively that we will not enforce um that outcome that he's concerned about because we're taking responsibility for our decision right now to not issue this order of conditions. Raise your hand if you agree with that
statement. Yep, I will agree with that statement, but I'll also say it's a paved road. If it gets over top, there shouldn't be that much sediment. Okay. And it all right. Um I would also like to add um in your
communications that we are concerned about the implementation of the turtle protection plan. So, um I understand that um several measures of barriers or buffers or um should be up before work
begins and prior to that there's supposed to be an on-site monitor. So, um I don't know if there that's supposed to be communicated by daily weekly monitoring reports, but trying to get some tabs on that and and maybe you could just check that he has a full
understanding about what those requirements are. I will do my best to put this all in writing to him to communicate it. Um and I think that there is some confusion to be honest about his understanding of the order, but I'm going to do my best to put it in
writing. and um make sure that it's clear in a concise um correspondence what your decision is and what the observations are because I think it's hearing from Bruce that he saw a machine out there at 6:00 on a Friday um with no
turtle monitor is you know that's I was told there was a monitor out there and there's clearly there was no monitor um so that's yeah maybe mention that to him as something we don't want to see going forward. Great. Thank you. I will. Thanks, Bruce, for
the eyes. Yes. Um, okay. So, I don't think we need to move on that one. Right. This is a communication to Okay. All right. So, that's fine. Um, monitoring reports. Is there anything? Go ahead,
Bruce. Conservation land applications. Yeah, I just I put those at the very end, so now I'm just going Yeah. um monitoring reports I've been following up on throughout the week. The biggest one is Hickory Ridge. Um,
Hickory Ridge has had multiple issues, um, repeated issues with turbid water leave leaving the construction site. And I have had multiple communications with their, um, uh, their supervisory team for
construction requesting additional measures going on three weeks now and not getting any response. And finally this week, I said if I don't get a response before the meeting tonight that I'm going to be recommending um that actions be taken because this is not
okay. Um and they did finally respond saying that they were going to um install some additional BMPs, replace some silt fencing, and also start doing some um uh hydro seating with tactifier. Um and there is some information in the
monitoring folder with the specs of what they're planning to do. So, I'll be following up with them on this week and with that this week um and uh next week, but I you know, it's it's been an ongoing process to kind
of keep things it's been and it's been a very rough spring season to be honest. That site has been really really tough. Um so, anyways, I'm working with them to try to to try to get the site stable as soon as possible, but it's a it's been very challenging. Okay, thank you. I
think Bruce's hand is up first. Go ahead, Bruce. I'll let Andre go first. Andre, mighty kind of you, Bruce. Um, well, uh, I just wanted to know how long, um, how long have you been requesting that they do something about
this? um today uh well yesterday when I sent the email it was my third um correspondence requesting it from them and there had been an incident two weeks ago with the controls being overt topped
and I requested it initially then and then again last week and then this week um and this week was the first time I got a response and initially the response was no we're not going to do anything about it we you know we're going to just keep maintaining what we have and I said that's not an adequate solution
Um, I need we need to have some permanent stabilization measures installed and and I said if there's any if I witness any more turbid turbid water leaving the site that it's it's going to be a compliance you know a compliance response or a stop work.
Yeah. Well, I would request that uh please because this is uh you know, they've they've they've agreed to uh to what they've agreed to and now they're not following through on their end and they're not answering to you or
they're not answering your uh your requests as well. Um, and remember again that uh, you know, they requested um, being able to work on both sides at the same time. Um, and they they can't
handle what they've got right now. I mean, that goes to uh, that goes to show that I think we did a good we made a a good decision on on that in the in the past. This Yeah. uh if this happens if this continue to continues to happen I
would like to see I would like to hear about that uh so that we can take action. Thank you Andre Bruce. Um, I had a general question for Aaron about each of the If you look at all the paragraphs on your very helpful
memo, they all sort of end with I've I've threatened or I've uh suggest there might have to be a cease and desist or but it doesn't say what their response is. And I worry that all of them are putting you off because if they'd had a
response, you probably would have told us about it. So I wonder is are there deadlines that that could be installed that that if they go past the deadline then it's automatic they get a cease and desist order. I just didn't have a sense
that there were steps beyond the what was described in the paragraph. Yeah. So, um, for Hickory, it's if there's turbid water leaving the site, again, they've been advised if that's if that's documented in a monitoring
report, then, um, it's going to result in a in a notice of non-compliance and or a stop work order. It really depends on the severity of the situation. Um, for two of the other sites, I gave them a 30-day um to file an after
the-act notice of intent. And um in one case I know that they already have a consultant working on that um or at least they've told me that they've communicated to me that they're doing that. Um in the other case it was a like a mail um notification and email
notification that was sent to them. So I do need to follow up on those. But the compliance issues are the most taxing and timetaking of anything that I do. Um, I mean, just to give you an example, like that 82 Pomeroy, which was that just that little single family house lot
where they went out, they exceeded the the um I do you guys remember this? We just talked about it a couple meetings ago where they didn't follow their plan. They modified their plan, but they never got permission from us in advance. I think one week I spent 30
hours talking to one contractor, another contractor, the land owner. Like every day they were calling me, each one of them, to talk it through and make sure they understood. And I'm like, "This is madness." Like they didn't follow their plan and it's taking more of my time and town resources to help them understand
what they need to do to correct the mistakes they've made. So like it it is very challenging, Bruce, and I acknowledge that. Like I do my best to keep tabs on all those things, but with all the other things we have going on, like I'm only one person. And so it's it
is very challenging and I'm definitely doing my best to keep all the, you know, the balls in the air in terms of like juggling, but it's um it's definitely a challenge to to keep them all in order. Yeah, certainly no criticism, but I do like the idea of um sort of a 30 days or
time frame and if no benchmarks met, then it's automatic enforcement. Um just queue up. I'm in support of that. things we could do to help as individual commissioners. Okay.
I don't know. Was that a question or you an offer? Yeah. Well, maybe consider it, Erin. And if you can utilize us in some way, I understand that might be more management effort on your part. Um, but yeah, keep it in mind. Okay. Uh, Alex, I
think you're up. Yeah. After we finish with Hickory, but before we adjourn, I have a question. Okay. Okay. So, we still have to get through land use and public comment. So, if we're ready to move on, um, thank you for the updates, Erin. Please keep us posted. And yeah, I think you have our blessings to move
forward with the enforcement after the 30 days. Um, okay. So, I'm going to do land use applications and then we'll take public comment. So, just please raise your hand and I'll get you in the queue after our land use applications. The first one is the plant survey for
Hotbrook. Um this is an annual activity and they collect seeds um to cultivate native plants used for restoration and for seed banking is my understanding. So I've reviewed these before. I'm okay with it. Any
commissioner questions or comments on this one. Okay. Looking for a motion to approve then clu3 plant survey at hotbrook. So moved. A second. Alex on the motion.
Rachel on the second. Jason I. Rachel. Hi. Bruce. Hi. Andre. Hi. Alex. Hi. I'm an eye. Okay. Next one up is UMass Outing Club Plunges. So, this
is a weekly activity where groups of maybe 30 people are going to Puffers Pond. Um, the word is plunge. I don't know if they swim, but safety concerns were raised because of actually someone drowning swimming across Puffer's pond.
So, um I think one thing if we approve this is to be clear about what their liability is and that it's their own liability. Um and I think I'd like to suggest that they have some kind of emergency plan or, you know, somebody's
in charge of an emergency number or something. I'm open to um suggestions on this. Jason, I would agree with your concerns as well as the potential concerns. I don't think bacteria is going to be an issue potentially at this time of year, but it
may as we've had a lot of rain recently. So, uh they need be aware of that as well. Yeah. Um right. So there's no testing done in the winter and if you know dog poop is a major source of that
E.coli then we can expect it to be there in the winter too. We just haven't tested and don't know. So let's put that on the list. Yeah, Bruce, I may have misread it, but it looked to me as though the start date and the end date were the same date. So I I didn't
understand the the logic of the calendar. Yeah, they they do this all year long is my understanding. Um I don't know exactly when they start or when they end. I think he he mixed up his when he filled out the application, he didn't do it
right. The year um I come again like the year should be different. Yeah, like maybe he meant start one year and finish the next year or something. Um, what I know is that they were out there plunging when our land manager saw them and approached them and said, "You guys need to file a land use application
for this activity." So, they they did follow up and and file the um the permit. But, yeah, I agree with you, Bruce. I looked at it and I was really confused and it was unclear to me sort of the administrative I think somebody in the group just filed the permit on behalf of everyone. Yeah.
Um, so I guess I would request that there is a point of contact for the group just because of the safety concerns here and then maybe relay um we that they're doing it at their own risk. I mean, I don't know if this is the point of them signing signing a waiver
or we can just state that um that they have emergency contact numbers and are aware of the coli risk. Jason, out of
curiosity, during the summer, if you if I were to go and visit Puffer Pond and swim in the summer, do I need a application, land use application? Well, if you brought a group of people Yeah. If you brought a group of 30 people to an event there, Yeah, you would.
If you showed up with your a neighbor group of 30 people for an event, you would. I think that's we were just like, "Hey, we're all going to Puffer Pond to go swimming and more than 30 people," like, "What's the cuto off number?" If me and 15 of my closest friends get
together and go swimming up there, do we need a land use application? Um, it's really meant for like an organized event like around an organization or um use of the land by like a single group or or something like that. Um, and we do, this is one of the
things that we lay out in the land use policy is like where's what is the trigger point. Um, and so yeah, I would say this meets the criteria for when we were in rec. So some organized reoccurring event with more than 15 people or something is probably what it
says. Andre, to help you, uh, Jason, um, in the park service, uh, it was 10 people, uh, to be considered commercial, for example, or to be considered for a
permit. I think in the, um, the state right now might do 20 or 25, I'm not sure, but it varies. uh it varies uh among agencies uh how many people is the cuto off for
example uh but yeah anyway just uh hopefully that helps um I just wanted to add that if uh that it's probably a good idea to um to have folks uh sign a waiver uh but um I would
suggest um not and No insult in my suggestion, Erin, but I would suggest to just run it by the uh uh town uh council. C O N.
Okay. Yes. Town attorney. Yeah, that's council. The C. Okay. Um, anyone else? Okay. Any public comment? Please raise your hand. And I think, and Bruce, you're always the best at telling me what I've missed. Did I get to everything on our
agenda? So, except the Except what? Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm seeing no hands. Go ahead. So, was this an was that an approval of the land use application? Oh, sorry. Yeah, let's tie that up. So,
I I laid out a few warnings and we're going to run it by town council, but given how about given approval by town council, um I don't know. So, if town council says we need a waiver, I feel like we're going to have to reconfigure what we're
writing here. Do you want to wait and just tie it up at the next meeting after we Okay. Okay, that's fine. Thanks. All right. Almost almost there. Okay. I think that's it. So, now we're looking for a motion to adjourn. I asked Oh, right. Sorry, Alex. Go
ahead. I have two questions. First has to do with what we voted on last Friday. was to put an item on time on the agenda to begin discussing updating our regulations. So my question is when do
you think that will be on the agenda? June. My second question is what is the next land use regulation that we will Okay. Yes. So June is what we're working on Erin and I for putting that topic on
the agenda. Um, what is our next land use? You were in charge of that one. Um, what do we have left? Do we have a cue for it?
I was trying to remember remember what we delivered. Okay. Well, how about we put it on the next agenda? Unless it's a very packed meeting and a land use uh
subcommittee topic. Yeah. So we have uh to finish up the rules and regulations that would that would involve what was prepared and distributed. And I I thought there was um another document
that we prepared, but I I didn't I didn't look before this meeting. There's supposed to be a thing on beavers and I've been ill, so I haven't been able to move that one
forward, but that will happen in June. I'm sorry. I just been really ill. That's not a problem. So I think we've distributed the regulations, rules and regulations already. I think people have
seen those, right? Yeah. Are they sure? Yeah. So why don't we we go with that one? And and what I would like to suggest is that we put the time the 20 minutes on the agenda and then we confirm what's already been included in the packets. And
so the topic will be announced shortly with material. Okay. Okay. I think that's it. Move to adjourn. Second.
All right. Jason I Rachel. Hi. Andre. Hi. Alex. Hi. Bruce. I and I Right. Thanks everyone. Um Erin, maybe we could just rendevu at some point to just check
in about what the land use subcommittee materials are because I need a refresh around that too. Okay. Thank you everybody. Good night. Good night everybody. Good night.