WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=dbrkck-HMNM

Part: 1

1
00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:18.480
Welcome everyone. Uh this is uh welcome to the Amoris Conservation Commission meeting of uh today, July 29th, uh 2026. It's 7:08 p.m. Um, we have uh six

2
00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:35.360
participants uh five participants uh or commission members here. Bruce, Carol, Sarah, Jason, and me. Um not sure if we'll have uh one more join

3
00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:54.000
us or not. Um we'll see as we as we move through. Just a matter of uh uh attention for those who were here to uh and uh looking to attend the discussion on uh regulations uh regarding hunting.

4
00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:10.799
Um the we will be doing that having that discussion on our in our next meeting not tonight. Um we have a uh significant drought still

5
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:28.479
uh uh even though it's raining right now. Um again for what that means to uh folks who are watering uh or just thinking about watering or not uh that's that information will be on uh the town

6
00:01:28.479 --> 00:01:45.720
website um under the uh public works um water department. Right. Um let's see. Uh,

7
00:01:46.960 --> 00:02:03.040
I think that's uh I think that's going to do it right now for Oh, we did have um in case uh some of you might have uh tried to tune into uh uh last week when we normally would have had our meeting. Uh

8
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:18.640
we did change that because last week uh uh several of us uh were in a training that uh was made possible by uh uh our new arrangement with the town um for us to get some training uh get a training

9
00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:34.640
budget. So uh Dave and to the town big thanks that uh we were able to um get some uh get some conservation commissioner training. Other than that, um I think we're

10
00:02:34.640 --> 00:02:52.400
uh that's it for now. Um I'm going to actually Bruce, was there uh anything that you were going to speak about? >> Um the only other thing I guess I would add is that the Fort River culverts

11
00:02:52.400 --> 00:03:08.480
project continues. Uh and we're looking for people to help with uh having a table about the Culver's project at various uh town events. The next two months basically is the most intensive part. We're going to try to have uh a

12
00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:24.239
table at the some some of the farmers markets. Uh we're going to be there with the DPW at the um block party. Um I'm going to give a talk to the Rotary. Uh, and there's uh ice

13
00:03:24.239 --> 00:03:42.560
cream in the park and I sent you the pan of the flyer for that. So, anywhere you can put that up and then appear to have some ice cream and to talk about flooding and storm water and culverts uh would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

14
00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:58.319
>> Thank you, Bruce. So, there you go. go join uh join Bruce uh or go uh and help help uh help be at a table and uh spread some information, >> but especially put the posters up in

15
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:15.680
various places wherever you can think that someone would see it. That's that's the key. Thank you. >> Thanks. [clears throat] Um so with that then uh we'll uh turn turn the um mic over to Dave Zomec who

16
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:30.560
is going to give you a director's report. Dave. >> Great. Thanks Andre. kind of a kind of an appropriate announcement from Bruce about culverts and storm water and you know as as uh little little ticker tapes come across

17
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:47.680
the TV saying you know we have a flood watch for Hampshire, Hampton, and Franklin County tonight and you know uh much needed rain, but it's it's nice to get it over a couple of days. It's also one of these summer storms where a lot of reptiles and amphibians kind of

18
00:04:47.680 --> 00:05:02.720
depend on these kinds of storms. Uh species like the eastern spadefoot toad actually come out and breed in in these kinds of events. So, uh much needed rain for lots of reasons. Um don't have too many updates tonight, but I'll I'll

19
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:19.199
cover just a couple. Um some of you may have um tuned in last week. I believe it was on Tuesday night. Um, we had a panel discussion, a webinar on Hampshire College. I I know I I didn't recognize everybody. I was part of the panel, but

20
00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:34.800
I I know Bruce was there and and Aaron uh was was in the audience as well. Um, but the town and our consultants uh spent about an hour, hour and a half both presenting but also taking questions through the webinar format on

21
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:50.160
the Hampshire College process. And again our process is really focused on zoning. Uh clearly the college is moving forward with their plans both for you know uh uh addressing uh the needs of their students, their faculty, their staff, a

22
00:05:50.160 --> 00:06:05.919
teachout of those students, remaining students and then the disposition of the campus. But our process is really focused on on zoning and uh how that uh may influence the future of of the campus. The town council has has uh

23
00:06:05.919 --> 00:06:22.880
given the town manager and staff uh four focus areas uh for that to to focus on in that zoning. One is housing the the need the urgent need for more housing in town of all in all categories. Um broadening the tax base is another need.

24
00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:38.319
Uh resource protection uh both natural resource protection, wetlands, uh streams, rivers as well as uh prime soils, agricultural land. And then the possibility that there may be, you know, individual facilities on that campus

25
00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:54.000
that may be of interest to the town, i.e. there's a swimming pool, there's a gymnasium, there's pickle ball courts, etc. So, those are kind of the four categories that we're we're focused on, but I there were a couple of questions about, you know, how does town

26
00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:09.280
conservation staff and the commission weigh in on that? And and clearly uh um there is a broad opening for committees and boards to be part of that process uh moving forward. And I would encourage the the commission to be part of that,

27
00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:25.919
the planning board part of that. Um, and other boards and committees across town may be part of that process moving forward. And I'll try to keep you apprised. And there is a website uh there on our website uh the full presentation last week is there and I

28
00:07:25.919 --> 00:07:41.360
would encourage anybody if you have a few minutes to uh take a look at that presentation. Um, I think it was pretty pretty comprehensive and there's, you know, five to 10 slides that are really quite helpful when you when you think about resource areas and and potential

29
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:57.840
development on the Hampshire campus. So, that's kind of a big focus moving forward in the fall. The goal is really to have zoning a zoning proposal to the council by sometime around the middle of the year um Januaryish

30
00:07:57.840 --> 00:08:15.120
uh to have a zoning proposal for the campus uh to them uh for their consideration. So that's a big focus Hampshire College. Um moving a little bit. Yeah, sure. >> A fine grain detail. The culvert assessors went to the Hampshire campus

31
00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:31.039
and they only found three culverts and that's largely because it's a relatively flat forest wetland. Um there aren't really streams there much and so just for your information. >> Yeah, you mentioned that on a call we

32
00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:46.160
were on this morning, Bruce. Surprised me a little. I'm not sure if Aaron was surprised at all by that number. It surprises me that there aren't more actually, but um >> well, if you if you know of them, then we should discuss it with the assessment

33
00:08:46.160 --> 00:09:01.519
team and see if they can go take another look. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because there are a lot of intermittent streams out there in and amongst all that farmland. Um but three might be the number, but um we can take a look. >> Let's check in with the team.

34
00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:17.680
>> Yeah. Uh everything is coverts. Culverts, culverts, culverts in 26. Um, let's see what else. Moving north to to Buffers Pond. Unfortunately, with the rain, um uh you know, we we have had a couple of weeks of failed, uh u water

35
00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:34.880
quality tests up at Buffer Pond, and we we were, you know, the drought, uh and the lack of rain, um has allowed us to to um kind of um uh keep Puffer Pond uh open and and uh welcoming to to visitors

36
00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:51.839
all summer and users all summer, but we've had to post it a couple of times. It actually goes now through the health department. So the health department makes that call. Uh and we last week and then this week uh the water quality there did not meet state standards. So

37
00:09:51.839 --> 00:10:06.800
we'll keep testing. We test every Monday or Tuesday. The results take about 24 hours and then we post on our website and then we physically post conservation staff physically post the pond. So uh we'll keep working on that. Um let me

38
00:10:06.800 --> 00:10:22.000
see. sticking up in North Ammerst. I am going to reach out to the friends of Lake Warner. They've been doing a lot of outreach. Uh Lake Warner of course is uh the the water body uh that the Mill River flows into in Hadley and then goes

39
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:37.760
over a dam and then a very short run to the Connecticut River. Uh the friends of Lake Warner have been doing a lot of outreach, a lot of good work um um really focused on water quality in Lake Warner. So a good portion of the

40
00:10:37.760 --> 00:10:53.600
watershed of the Mill River is in Ammerst. Um so it makes sense for us to collaborate with them. So uh I've worked with them before, but um it's been a while since we've had a a closer relationship. So I hope to kind of foster that in the coming months. Um

41
00:10:53.600 --> 00:11:10.800
small item. uh staff was able to after uh some great length of time, a little longer than I I I had hoped, uh put in a new kiosk up at Mount Warner. It's been long awaited. I've talked about it for probably a year and a half. And this

42
00:11:10.800 --> 00:11:29.040
will uh what will follow is some of the um some of the material and information that came before you from one of the friends of Mount Warner focused on the geomorphology of the area. Some of you may recall you you um supported that

43
00:11:29.040 --> 00:11:45.519
some time ago. Uh work by Thomas Johnson uh who's in a butter to uh Mount Warner. So we'll get going on some modest signs up there. I think uh you had approved one sign at the top of the u uh the the the ridge there uh Mount Pollocks and

44
00:11:45.519 --> 00:12:02.959
then some information on the kiosk. So we'll get going on that. And I think that those are the major updates. Aaron and I continue to work with Pure Sky at the Hickory Ridge site. Uh, batteries have been delivered there. I believe Pure Sky will be back before you talking

45
00:12:02.959 --> 00:12:19.279
about a potential amendment to their um to their permit in two weeks. I I believe they're back on your agenda in two weeks. In the meantime, we're working on them on trying to hit every one of their uh punch list items. Uh

46
00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:36.399
various town staff work with Aaron and myself, our electrical inspector, our fire uh code inspectors have been meeting with Pure Sky out on that site for weeks and we're trying to get them to the finish line to get that project buttoned up. But again, Pure Sky will be

47
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:53.440
presenting to you, if I'm not mistaken, in two weeks on your agenda. Um so those are the quick updates around town. Any questions? I'm happy to feel them. >> Thank you, Dave. I have a question. Um,

48
00:12:53.440 --> 00:13:09.440
what uh have there been any talks uh about or uh about anadimous fish ladder in uh the dam in e either of the two dams that you've mentioned uh either at

49
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:26.720
Hadley and North Hadley or in Puffers? >> Yeah, good question. Through the years, um there's been a lot of talk particularly about the dam at Lake Warner. Um I won't go into great detail, but you know, there's kind of a long history at

50
00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:41.920
looking at that dam. And of course, that dam, as I said, it's a very short run. If you don't know how close it is to uh the confluence of the Connecticut, uh that basically killed any fish movement up or down, mostly up, but pretty much

51
00:13:41.920 --> 00:13:59.360
down as well in that watershed for 150 years. Fish have not been able to get over that dam. It's a very tall dam. Kestrel Trust uh took over that dam and and part of the ownership of that dam from the

52
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:17.360
Valley Land Fund when the Valley Land Fund and the Kestrel Trust merged and there was a lot of discussion in in Hadley, including possibly taking down that dam and the residents of Hadley said absolutely not. We want that water body. Um, so I I think that's kind of

53
00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:33.920
where it it ended at Lake Warner, Andre, with, you know, um an interest, but uh at the time there was so much to figure out with the with the um condition of that dam on Lake Warner. And some of those improvements, a lot of those

54
00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:48.959
improvements were funded with CPA dollars and state grants. So the dam is safe, but no anadimous fish passage was ever added. And then you come upstream to the Puffers Pond Dam, which is much taller. And we've talked about it

55
00:14:48.959 --> 00:15:06.880
through the years. Um, but it I think it's just frankly been a little daunting to think about it. There's also been talk about both dams potentially adding micro hydro to both dams in the past as a way to generate power. Um again I

56
00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:23.440
think the impediment has always been cost and the cost of studying that from an engineering standpoint. So not to say it couldn't happen either fish passage or or micro hydro but uh the cost really became the impediment I think in both ca

57
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:40.079
both cases. But >> maybe uh maybe this is a good time to uh bring it up. I mean I'm ask more than uh making that statement um or asking that question. I'm wondering if maybe you could bring that up on uh on our behalf when you have your next meeting.

58
00:15:40.079 --> 00:15:56.240
>> Yeah, I could I could talk and see if the folks the friends that are at all looking at that. Now, keep in mind we are studying the Puffers Pond Dam and uh the dyke uh because both of them need some structural work. There's no danger.

59
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:13.759
The the both structures are safe, but they're going to need significant work, particularly the dyke at Buffers Pond. So, we're in that study and and engineering phase and then we're going to need to go for state funding and possibly town funding to make some of those repairs to the dam and dyke. I

60
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:29.759
would imagine that there's uh there's some federal monies and state monies uh that would be that one could find uh grants in order to uh uh get the passage, you know, to

61
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:45.839
facilitate the passage of these anatomous and catadimous fish. Um >> we'll certainly Yeah, certainly look into it. >> Yeah. Great. Thank you. Uh Sarah, you're you're muted. I'm sorry. Sorry, I was just going to say you guys

62
00:16:45.839 --> 00:17:00.079
probably know Boyd Canard. He's right here in Ammerst and designs. [clears throat] >> And in fact, he did the Wentworth he worked on. >> Are you Are you friends with him, Audrey? Andre, >> he was a professor of mine and I uh did

63
00:17:00.079 --> 00:17:19.199
>> Oh, that's awesome. I did a study uh on juvenile um short-nosed sturgeon where we put little uh backpacks on them and tracked them up and down the river. >> Awesome. >> I he also did the anatomous fish uh

64
00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:36.720
um elevator and um and fish ladder. The elevator at Holy Oak Dam and the fish ladder and Turners. and I uh I was one of the people who would count them and catch the uh salmon so that uh it would go to the salmon hatchery. >> My son my son's doing herring stuff.

65
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:53.679
He's been doing river herring for a long time. I'm happy to if Andre if you're ever interested in in exploring that further. I'm more than happy. I think that's a great idea and I know those like Warner folks the they're connected to my family members and Julian. They've been trying to recruit Julian for their

66
00:17:53.679 --> 00:18:10.160
team for a long time. So I'm happy to work if you ever want to. >> Thank you, sir. >> Just to add, Boyd was very helpful. Ammerst [clears throat] Ammerst initiated and and helped organize the removal of the Bartlett Rod Shop Dam in

67
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:27.360
Pelum some years ago and Boyd was very helpful uh in that regard. So, we worked with the uh Department of Ecological Restoration, um state agencies, US Fish and Wildlife was around the table on that one, too. So, yeah. Um

68
00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:43.840
>> yeah, >> certainly certainly look at it. >> There's some great resources in this town for sure. >> Knowledge knowledge resources. Jason. >> Yeah. Just out of curiosity, would removing the Puffers Pond Dam

69
00:18:43.840 --> 00:19:00.960
alto together be something that would be allowed under our bywalls? Like wouldn't we be then destroying wetlands that have been created by the existence of that dam and the

70
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:17.039
Lake Warner in theory the Lake Warner dam as well. >> Yeah, I would imagine that. I would say that they're going to have to be permits all around, but I I don't I can't I've never been involved in uh drawing down a dam. Dave Dave may know more about that. >> And Aaron Aaron probably has too. I

71
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:32.960
don't want to I don't want to spend too much time tonight, but it's a great question, Jason, but I think the short answer is yes, it can be done. It's being done all over the state. There's some really impressive dam removal projects in Eastern Mass right now, and it can be permitted. uh years ago we

72
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:49.120
looked at it for uh the Puffer Spawn Dam. When we did the Puffers Pond 2020 uh work and it was when we did public outreach to those people who love and use Puffer Bond, it was a resounding the community wanted to keep the dam and the

73
00:19:49.120 --> 00:20:03.919
pond. So >> yeah, I would imagine. I'm just curious about >> I mean they're good projects that restore like the natural flow and equilibrium to the waterways, but >> they're definitely resources that people have fallen in love with.

74
00:20:03.919 --> 00:20:21.679
>> Yeah, it can be done. It has been and it is being done. It can be permitted, but anyway. >> Great. Um, thanks for that question, Jason. And Carol has a question as well. So actually I I recently joined the

75
00:20:21.679 --> 00:20:37.200
board of the friends of Lake Warner because I'm very interested in what they're doing with water quality. And um I just want to mention that uh Kestrel is no longer uh part of that

76
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:54.480
that uh owning that dam. They transferred the land that they owned actually to the friends of Lake Warner and they said they did not want to be in the business of owning dams as I understood it. Right Dave? Yes.

77
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:12.240
>> Yeah. It was a long and very difficult and very expensive process. Owning dams is not real glamorous and it comes with a lot of responsibility. So, >> and and and repairing them is very expensive. >> Yeah. But they did get a lot done when they did own it. So I give them a lot of

78
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:26.960
credit. >> Right. >> All right. Well, thank you. Um and Dave, thanks for your uh uh thanks for your director's report. Uh today we have uh two hearings. Um one

79
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:43.280
of them both of them notices of intent. um our 17 uh our 7:15 notice. Uh get started on that. Um before I do, just

80
00:21:43.280 --> 00:22:00.480
wanted to uh ensure that uh folks are aware of the uh >> Andre, sorry, >> before you start that. >> Yes, sir. Let's remember that we'll need to come back to the minutes, the land use updates, the CPA lies on appointment, and the first amendment

81
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:15.679
obligation summary. All of which were scheduled before this, but we'll need to come back to them. >> All right, we'll be coming back to all of those. >> Okay. And for anyone who uh had signed on to hear or participate in the

82
00:22:15.679 --> 00:22:31.440
discussion about uh hunting regulations that we had mentioned in the last meeting, uh we've put that on uh or we will be putting that on the uh agenda for next meeting. Uh Bruce, your hand is

83
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:47.600
still up. So general procedures for uh for our uh for fairness in our hearings. Um each hearing has 20 minutes to it dedicated to it with five for the applicant or their representative, five

84
00:22:47.600 --> 00:23:02.080
minutes for staff, five minutes for public comment or two per person. Um and five minutes for conservation commissioners. Um, we uh the commission requires that uh

85
00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:17.840
all materials that are going to be uh used for our meetings uh be submitted the Wednesday prior to our meetings uh by close of business. And uh when presenting uh state your

86
00:23:17.840 --> 00:23:34.000
name uh clearly and uh the address of the project and who you're representing if you have preferred pronouns. uh please mention those as well. Same for members of the public. Um and also

87
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:52.240
state your name and address. Um during the uh during the hearings um we should everybody should be muted unless they're speaking. That means everyone not just the uh commissioners uh but everyone and the chair will uh

88
00:23:52.240 --> 00:24:08.400
facilitate the communications. uh just raise your hand whenever you would like to uh be heard or uh have a question. With that uh we'll be moving into our first hearing. Uh this public hearing is called uh is

89
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:24.400
now called to order. This hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the commonwealth an act relative to the protection of wetlands as most le recently amended in article 3.31

90
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:39.840
wetlands protection under the town of Ammeris general bylaws. This is a notice of intent um submitted by Berkshire Design Group on behalf of Wild Onions LLC for the construction of an auxiliary dwelling unit at an

91
00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:54.799
existing residential property with associated parking, drainage, and mitigation within the buffer zone to bordering vegetative wetlands and isolated vegetated wetlands at 194 College Street. Map 14B,

92
00:24:54.799 --> 00:25:12.720
lot 151. With that, um, we're looking to see who might be here to, uh, to present. Um, are we seeing anyone there, Erin, with the, uh, with Bergkshire Design?

93
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:28.960
>> Yes, I will, um, bring Mike Lou in. >> Thank you. If there's anybody else for this project that wants to be pulled in, please raise your hand and I'll bring you in.

94
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:54.640
I see Ward Smith. I'm going to be pull him in as well. Well, welcome uh Michael Lou or Leo and um Mr. Ward. Um go ahead and uh

95
00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:10.640
give a uh give us your presentation and uh we'll move on from there. Welcome again. >> Hey. Um yeah, we'll try to make it quick here. Um I'm Michael Louu with the Berkshire Design Group. Um presenting this project on behalf of um Upensang.

96
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:27.360
He is um a property owner in Amoris with many rental properties. Um this particular project um can you all see my screen? >> We can see you right now, but uh we're we're we're going to work on uh getting you to share the screen. Erin, is that

97
00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:45.679
set up? Probably. Yes. >> Yes. So, you should be able to share and request to share Mike and then I can allow you to >> just right next to your raise your >> There you go. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, you should see a little

98
00:26:45.679 --> 00:27:02.159
um kind of a locust map taken from the Ammerst GIS system. >> Try one more time, Mike, because it's not popping up for us. I did allow you to share, so it should be working. >> Oh, here we go. Let's see. >> Might just take an extra try after you

99
00:27:02.159 --> 00:27:16.400
request. >> Here we go. >> Yep. >> I think you got it now. >> Okay, now we're on here. Um, okay. So, this property, 194 College Street, is highlighted in yellow there. That lot,

100
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:30.960
um, the existing house, you can see, and then there's a driveway um that goes around on the east side. um uh going north into a parking area. Oops. Let's see. I got a

101
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:47.360
Okay, this survey um shows the wetlands that were identified um and delineated uh by Ward Smith of Valley Val Environmental Services. I mean a Wendo Wetland Services. And um uh in blue

102
00:27:47.360 --> 00:28:02.640
here, this is offsite along the north side. There's a um an existing uh swale on the west side here that's actually off the property, but there's an isolated wetland at the bottom of that swale shown in these uh blue line over

103
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:18.559
here. Um the red lines indicate the 50-foot no disturb um zone, 75 ft building setback, and this is the 100 foot buffer zone. So you can see that um it's it's like 88% of the uh parcel is

104
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:33.440
within buffer zone and there's already development within 50 ft of the wetlands you know and then the house is within 75 ft um you know within the 75t building setback already and then there's further you know development out here in out to

105
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:50.960
the 100 foot buffer um zone. Um I'm just going to go through some pictures real quick. This is just a a picture from the street with the driveway on the side here. The ADU location is proposed to be where the arrow is pointing here in uh in the

106
00:28:50.960 --> 00:29:08.880
back. Um in this photo uh from the driveway um the the red lines here indicate that the driveway is shifting over and then it would um um go into the ADU uh which is situated back here. uh the ADU would

107
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:25.520
straddle the uh where the existing pavement um is and the part of the lawn here. Um in the back in the woods um you can't see the wetland flags. They actually weren't we our surveyors restake them after I took these photos,

108
00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:40.559
but the wetland line to the north is within the woods here. It's actually downgradient of the site um by about a foot. Um so uh there's um little uh chance of runoff uh migrating in that

109
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:56.960
direction. Um this is these are photos in the swale in the isolated wetland area. You can see uh by the way I'm standing in the swale and looking back toward College Street. Um to my to the left here there's an old existing steel uh clos line. There's actually two of

110
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:12.640
these in the back of the site which we're proposing to remove um as part of the mitigation. Um and we'll talk about that and Ward can give a quick um presentation on that mitigation uh after I finish. Um in the back here and um just in this uh photo here, I just want

111
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:27.120
to point out that in the rear of the existing building, there are currently these bumpouts. There's a first floor bumpout off the kitchen. There's a second floor kind of um a den and entry emergency access bumpout with uh these

112
00:30:27.120 --> 00:30:44.159
covered stairs uh covered stairs that go down against the house. And then these open stairs that come down. This is the stairs are within the 50 foot um no disturb as well as some of the paving that's underneath the stairs here. Um so in this kind of in this um color

113
00:30:44.159 --> 00:30:58.240
diagrammatic uh plan um it shows the proposal um with the areas highlighted. This is the existing house. The ADU is proposed to be situated here right outside the 50

114
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:15.600
foot no disturb line. Um there's really no way we can fit this anywhere else on the site because of the side setbacks and otherwise, you know, the building would end up being in the front here and there's just not enough room uh in this corner of the site to build anything

115
00:31:15.600 --> 00:31:31.760
that's substantial enough to be a residence. Um besides, you know, like one of those tiny houses. Um the driveway is shown here hatched in gray with u slightly moving over in the background. This light uh dashed red

116
00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:47.279
line indicates the existing edge of pavement. So, the driveway is shifting to the east slightly and then coming into the ADU. There's a couple parking spaces um wedged between the ADU and the back of the existing house and then three more

117
00:31:47.279 --> 00:32:05.279
spaces uh here to the side and front of the house. This ADU is a custom design um building. There's two garage parking spaces on the ground level and then the living spaces on the on the upper level. Um so it's a custom you u designed unit

118
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:21.360
in order to fit on this the site and you know provide two extra parking spaces underneath. Um the proposed area of mitigation is highlighted in blue. This area back here, you'll see um this the

119
00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:37.360
existing pavement right here that exists is is be going to be removed and converted into mitigation with um native plant uh shrub plantings and um conservation seed mix. The the uh back area here where the clos lines exist,

120
00:32:37.360 --> 00:32:54.159
you can kind of see these circles uh light circles here. I can blow it up if you if you can't see them. They're the posts of the clothes line. There's four posts here and two in the back here. Those are proposed to be removed and um as well as um some of the um u invasive

121
00:32:54.159 --> 00:33:08.880
species which Ward can highlight. And then this area is proposed to be replanted. I can't remember how many shrubs um with a number of native shrubs and a conservation mix. The area here along the east between the ADU and the

122
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:24.799
property line is proposed to be a um a runoff mitigation swale. It's um going to be it's designed as a uh filled with natural stone and planted with um hardy perennials um that'll you know come back

123
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:40.960
um um annually. Um the the light green areas are the resultant lawn areas. Um there's a lawn space here and in the back. We wanted to keep a little bit of lawn and open space around the back of the building just for access and for maintenance etc. So that if you know you

124
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:56.240
had to put up a ladder or whatever, you're not you're not trampling through um um the native plantings um you know we and then having the shrubs right up against the house, you know, obviously would be problematic. Um so in the back of the existing unit, it shows now

125
00:33:56.240 --> 00:34:12.639
without the bumpouts, but there will be a a small landing off of an existing door that's in the pantry with a couple steps down to grade. Um let me go to the next diagram. So this diagrammatic plan shows on the left the

126
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:28.240
in green hatched area the existing um develop or altered area imperous area. This is the existing house. This is the driveway. This is the 50 foot um no disturb line highlighted and this is the

127
00:34:28.240 --> 00:34:44.639
100 foot buffer out here. Um, in proposed conditions, we're going to remove all of this paving uh from inside the 50 foot and basically shift things over into the zone into the um zone between the 50 and 100 foot

128
00:34:44.639 --> 00:35:02.320
buffer. Um I I clarified some of the numbers with Aaron today. Um in existing conditions this total amount of um alteration is um 3,435 square ft. In um proposed conditions

129
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:18.320
it's 3,397 square ft. So it's slightly less alteration um in proposed conditions uh than in the existing. So I think that's a that's a a benefit. Um

130
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:34.079
before let me think. Um I'm not sure if we have uh I'm just going to jump over to the planting plan real quick to kind of show you the layout. So this area of the uh native planting mitigation uh includes um a a number of shrubs.

131
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:51.520
There's um five species proposed planted at 8 feet on center um along with a conservation seed mix here. Um it's listed with the species. Um and then within the drainage swale um we have um let me see one two three four five six

132
00:35:51.520 --> 00:36:07.760
seven is it seven or eight one two uh seven species of um perennials native perennials and grasses to be planted u within the stone swale. Um >> I just I just like to uh chime in here

133
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:24.400
just for a second Mike. Um so there are really two areas of in the mitigation. One is the pavement that's going to be removed. That will be top soil will be added to that and that will be sewn with a right >> native seed mixture and planted with shrubs, native shrubs. And then the uh

134
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:41.359
the farther area is is currently um a lot of that is wooded. And there has been a garlic mustard problem out there. And because of the shading of the trees, the the Virginia creeper is actually doing really well against the garlic mustard. And I was happy to see that. So

135
00:36:41.359 --> 00:36:59.680
our our proposal is not to cut anything three inches or greater to leave the existing canopy even though some of those are non-natives but to remove all of the non-native shrubs in there and bitter and bittersweet. So that would be removed by um hand tools, clippers, uh

136
00:36:59.680 --> 00:37:15.760
saws and hand shovels to dig up the root systems and then planted with the native species. So, a total of 58 uh shrubs are proposed to be planted in the mitigation area. >> Great. Thanks for clarifying. Um we saw

137
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:31.599
there was a site visit um yesterday. I think two of the commissioners came out um and we saw um the bittersweet, you know, and some of them the the big um vines were cut in the past. So, you could see that there was, you know, somebody had gone out there and tried to

138
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:47.119
cut it, [clears throat] but obviously it's very hard to pull down out of the branches. Um, we saw a lot of um, Norway maple saplings. There was multifllora rose out there. Um, there's >> Yeah. Marorrow's honeysuckle, burning bush. That's what I've got on here. Common buckthornne. Those are ones I

139
00:37:47.119 --> 00:38:02.720
noted there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> For non-native invasive species. But all of that would be removed and replaced with native native species. >> Um, and then your monitoring um plan also has a a monitor >> monitoring for two years uh with reports

140
00:38:02.720 --> 00:38:20.640
to the commission. Um and it's the same I just put the same standard as for wetland uh replication area. 75% success um of the shrubs within at the end of two years two growing seasons

141
00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:38.000
would be considered successful. If it's less than that then we would have to replant. >> Yep. Okay. Um I I think um we've probably taken you know a good 10 15 minutes maybe. So I guess we'll let uh

142
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:54.320
we'll close the presentation at this point and um hear questions from the commissioners. >> Thank thank you Mr. Lou. We're going to go uh now to um to Aaron Jack for the town's perspective and then we'll uh go to the public and then the commissioners

143
00:38:54.320 --> 00:39:11.440
will have a chance to uh to speak with you or to ask you questions. Erin, do you want me to stop sharing? >> Yeah, that'd be great, Mike. Thank you. >> Okay. All right. It's all yours for now. >> Thanks. Um, so I didn't have a chance to

144
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:27.200
draft an order of conditions tonight. I started but um just unfortunately wasn't able to finish. Uh but I wanted to just share my thoughts on the waiverss that were requested. Um so just [clears throat] to refresh the commission's memory back in 2024

145
00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:41.200
um this applicant came uh before the commission with uh an ADU proposal and um as a result of a lot of questions on the project they ended up withdrawing and since that time I want to say we've

146
00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:58.640
met three or four times um to basically review their progress. um they wanted to get recommendations from me throughout and basically [clears throat] have integrated every single one of my recommendations in this proposed plan and I'm really happy um on a

147
00:39:58.640 --> 00:40:14.240
redevelopment site that we could incorporate this level of mitigation natural restoration um and also achieve the goal of the um the applicant to get their ADU in here. So um with regard to

148
00:40:14.240 --> 00:40:29.440
the waivers, one of the um uh wetlands is an isolated wetland and we do have a 100 foot no disturb. Um, I wanted to just um emphasize to the commission the similarities between this

149
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:46.160
site and I believe it was 174 Amity Street where there was a parking lot which was upgradient of the um of the the project area where a lot of water was coming off of the adjacent site um onto the neighboring site. In this case,

150
00:40:46.160 --> 00:41:03.040
the wetland is on a neighboring property, but it's a a multif family house that has a large parking area and that runoff is coming off of that site. So, um they're definitely that wetland I think was the result of uh a large

151
00:41:03.040 --> 00:41:21.200
parking area that has inadequate drainage immediately upstream of the project, which um is causing the the anorobic soil conditions and the hydrophic plants to grow. Um uh I so I have basically fashioned the

152
00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:38.160
the um finding a fact very similar to the 174 Amity Street basically to acknowledge the fact that there's this upgradient wetland which is formed as a result of a parking lot that didn't have proper drainage. Um, and uh,

153
00:41:38.160 --> 00:41:54.240
let me see. I also indicate that I don't believe that the work that they're proposing here is going to impair the capacity of that isolated wetland. If anything, I think it's actually going to improve the condition of that wetland because they're shifting so much out of that

154
00:41:54.240 --> 00:42:08.319
50-foot um buffer where there's existing development and um they're, you know, making improvements by adding vegetation, by adding um some [clears throat]

155
00:42:08.319 --> 00:42:25.359
storm water um measures to increase the um you know, the site all around. Um, so I am comfortable granting a waiver with a first waiver request because of the

156
00:42:25.359 --> 00:42:41.040
specific site design that they've incorporated on this particular project. Um, the second waiver was the setback for residential properties which I believe Mike referenced as 75 ft. In this case, for residential it's 60 ft.

157
00:42:41.040 --> 00:42:57.359
Um, and since these are both proposed to be single family homes, um, right now the houses are, um, set 50 ft back. The existing and the proposed ADU are set at 50. And based on this being a redevelopment project and them locating the structures, uh, the proposed

158
00:42:57.359 --> 00:43:13.040
structure as far away as they can while still maintaining their side setback, I think that um, you know, they're doing the best they can to try to meet that specific provision. And so I'm also comfortable granting a waiver on that.

159
00:43:13.040 --> 00:43:29.839
The third waiver is the 20%. Um I did do the calculations and checked um Mike's math. So the um existing I I wrote this out in bullets. Um the application proposes a net reduction of

160
00:43:29.839 --> 00:43:46.640
880 square ft between 0 to 50 foot um from the wetland. Um the application also proposes to increase increase um the alteration between 50 and 100 ft by 842. So there's actually less and

161
00:43:46.640 --> 00:44:04.560
they're moving it far farther away. Um the existing alteration on the site is 31% and they're moving it away and they're reducing it to 30%. So they're bringing the overall alteration of the site down. Um and they're proposing a mitigation area which is which is larger

162
00:44:04.560 --> 00:44:20.240
than their overall project footprint um with all of their mitigation. So based on that, I really feel like they have done everything that they possibly can on this site to um meet the you know to

163
00:44:20.240 --> 00:44:37.760
practically meet the bylaw under the site conditions which they can't control. So based on that, I would be comfortable granting a finding of fact, allowing the waiverss on those three provisions. Um, and so that's the staff perspective on this. I think they've done a very good job on the plan to

164
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:53.280
bring it into compliance as much as possible. >> Well, thank you Aaron for the town's perspective. Um, we'll go now to the uh to the public. If you uh are in the uh one of

165
00:44:53.280 --> 00:45:13.839
the attendees of the public and you have a question or a comment uh on uh this uh notice of intent at uh 194 College Street, please raise your hand. [clears throat] I see no hands up. Um

166
00:45:13.839 --> 00:45:32.720
so we'll go on to the commissioners. Are there any questions from the commissioners? Let me start then. Oh, Jason has a question. Go ahead. >> Uh Aaron, you mentioned that this is a

167
00:45:32.720 --> 00:45:48.240
single family home. I'm assuming that this is going to be a rental and likely a student rental. I see that there's um large stones that are bordering the mitigation in the rear of

168
00:45:48.240 --> 00:46:04.960
the property. Um out of curiosity, is is is there any kind of wording that gets put into like rental agreements that uh tenants are not to enter that area, they're not to alter that area in any

169
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:19.520
way? Um, is there any kind of language like that that goes into these uh rental agreements for a project like this? >> So, Jason, you're asking me the question? >> I'm just kind of asking anybody the question that knows the answer at this point.

170
00:46:19.520 --> 00:46:36.160
>> Uh maybe Mr. uh Lou or uh may may have a better idea there. >> I mean, I think this is Ward Smith. I I think you could put it in as a condition. Um I I assume Erin is going to uh draft a condition like we have on other other projects where there would be signs

171
00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:50.800
saying wetland mitigation area. >> So I think a condition I don't know the exact wording but that the areas wetland mitigation area is not to be used as a recreation area law area. And I want to

172
00:46:50.800 --> 00:47:07.359
add that um in my conversations with the applicant and the property manager for this parcel, which is Valley Property Management based in on Main Street in Ammerst, I don't I believe they will have no objection to limiting or or

173
00:47:07.359 --> 00:47:23.599
making the uh mitigation areas off off limits. Yeah, that's I'd like to if we can I'd like to make that a condition that language be included in the rental agreements for both properties or both units that the mitigation areas are not

174
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:43.680
to be used. They're not for recreation. They're not for picnicking or anything like that. They're strictly off limits. >> Thanks, Jason. Did you are your answers your questions answered? >> Yep. Yep. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um so I uh haven't I don't

175
00:47:43.680 --> 00:48:00.720
see another hand up so I'll take an opportunity. Uh I did see that um one of my questions uh was the comparison of uh area a permeable uh area pre and

176
00:48:00.720 --> 00:48:18.000
post um uh construction that was uh answered but I'm wondering um what would you what is it that you plan on doing with the parking area that uh that you're going to reconvert to um permeable area. Maybe Ward would be the

177
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:33.520
person. What do you do to that land to that to that part of the property that to recondition? >> That's going to be after the after the uh the the pavement is going to be removed from the site and disposed of properly. And the I'm I'm assuming there's gravel under there. That would

178
00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:48.559
be removed down to a depth of 6 in. There's going to be six inches of top soil put in there. >> And then that's going to be sewn with a native uh New England wetland plant seed mixture and planted with the same shrubs that are going to be used in the rest of the mitigation area. So that will end up

179
00:48:48.559 --> 00:49:06.119
being a shrub area and an not a wet meadow mix, an upland an upland wildflower wild mix. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Do we have any other questions uh from commissioners?

180
00:49:07.680 --> 00:49:29.359
I see none. Um, with that then, uh, we're I suppose we're looking for a motion to adopt a f finding of fact and close the public hearing on this. Um, knowing that uh Erin will uh draft an order of

181
00:49:29.359 --> 00:49:45.119
conditions uh for uh to issue at the next meeting. >> Sorry, Andre. I had I had a quick question. >> Yeah, go ahead. Um, I noticed that there's no stones on the on the right

182
00:49:45.119 --> 00:50:00.720
side of the project, on the east side of the project between the driveway and the swale. Um, and it appears that there's roughly a foot difference.

183
00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:15.599
So, it appears that the the edge of the swale and the edge of the driveway are at grade. Um, I would I'm a little concerned about potentially cars coming in and out driving in that swale then if it's at

184
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:33.440
especially if it's at grade. Um, is that something that we can potentially put some stone larger rocks there to prevent any vehicles cuz it's super close to spot seven in the garage. >> Mhm. >> There's going to be a lot of cars in and

185
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:49.119
out of there. I'd like to try to prevent vehicles from entering that swale if possible. >> I think that's a very reasonable comment. Um Aaron mentioned that possibly that the um commission might want some type of um border protection

186
00:50:49.119 --> 00:51:05.119
there. I think um again maybe using the large stones set, you know, six or seven feet apart or something like that would, you know, hopefully prohibit cars from entering or driving off the edge. Um, and I was looking, you know, probably

187
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:21.359
even at the at least at the south end also of that swale. Um, and I just wanted to mention that other area below or to the south of the uh swale there is grass. That's for the benefit of the

188
00:51:21.359 --> 00:51:37.280
fire department. they have a this, you know, the regulation about trying to get to within 50 feet of a unit and so, you know, having clear space so that fire trucks could, you know, drive on there if needed. Um, so we can't really

189
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:55.359
>> vegetate that area per se, but I think stones um kind of guarding the edge of the the swale and between the swale and the driveway would be acceptable. >> All right. And then also, as I was saying that, uh, plows came to mind. So,

190
00:51:55.359 --> 00:52:11.200
where would snow storage go? Um, where would snow I don't want them pushing it into that swale then, especially if there's salt in it. >> Yeah, I was thinking about that, too, because the the stones are going to, you know, >> prohibit plows from actually doing that. I mean, there's going to be some that

191
00:52:11.200 --> 00:52:28.079
kind of ends up just kind of um you know, probably flying off the plow blade and and ending up in the swale, but you know, and I grant you the sight's tight, but there's space in off the edges to the um to the uh like I said at the beginning where the fire trucks are

192
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:45.520
going to be allowed to to to maneuver if they need to. There's um these smaller grass plots between the edge of the um driveway and the existing house. And in the in the rear there, there's a little bit of space. And we talked about this.

193
00:52:45.520 --> 00:53:01.119
If if there comes a time when, you know, uh snow banks become problematic, they're just they're really just going to have to go and shovel those up into a truck or or something and and you know, um dispose of them off site. Um, I know

194
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:18.800
that Valley Property Management does has done that. They do that with some other sites that they manage. Um, so it's not a uh anything new um to them. >> All right. So, we can have them have uh something of that sort wrapped into the

195
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:34.960
order of conditions, >> I think. So, yeah. Yep. >> Aaron, uh your hand is up. But did you have uh >> Yeah, I did start drafting the order and some of the conditions were um to have curbing um like a like a wooden fence

196
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:52.400
curb going along the edge of that driveway to keep vehicles out. Um as well as I mean they're going to need vehicle access to the swale to clean it. So there's got to be some mechanism for vehicles to get to it for cleaning and maintenance. Um but I made note in there

197
00:53:52.400 --> 00:54:10.000
that besides the access area, those mitigation areas need to be um bounded. Um the note about no snow storage in the swale um is definitely integrated as well as um the installation of the

198
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:27.359
mitigation area is going to be a phased installation. So ordinarily I would require the the mitigation area to be planted prior to the start of construction. Um and in this case because that's not possible because the driveway is part of the mitigation area. Um, I'm

199
00:54:27.359 --> 00:54:44.880
going to be uh integrating um conditions in there that the erosion and sediment control boundary be moved to the edge of the parking lot so that phase one of the in uh mitigation installation can happen prior to the start of construction. And then once that mitigation area is

200
00:54:44.880 --> 00:55:02.680
installed, they could start on the, you know, the driveway removal, the construction of the ADU, and then they would have a phase two of the mitigation area install. So trying to make it so that there's some checks and balances with making sure those things get done.

201
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:20.559
>> All right. Thank you. >> Um I don't see any more questions. Um, so if we're satisfied that uh we'll have a decent uh order of conditions next

202
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:41.920
week and the or next meeting, um, I would be looking for a motion that the commission adopt the finding of fact and close the public hearing. I move to close the finding of fact and uh sorry adopt the finding of fact and

203
00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:59.680
close the public hearing. >> Seconded. >> There's Jason with a motion and uh Sarah with a second. Uh Sarah >> I. >> Bruce >> I. >> Carol still muted

204
00:55:59.680 --> 00:56:16.319
>> I. and Jason >> I >> and I'm an I. Um so there we go. We'll get a finding of facts in the next uh next meeting and uh >> thank you very much >> Mike and Ward. Thanks.

205
00:56:16.319 --> 00:56:31.839
>> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for your presentation. Have a good night. >> You too. >> Uh with that we move to our uh to our second hearing uh that was scheduled for 7:20. Uh this is a notice of intent.

206
00:56:31.839 --> 00:56:46.720
This public hearing is now called to order. This hearing is being held as required by the pre provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the commonwealth an act relative to the protection of wetlands as mostly

207
00:56:46.720 --> 00:57:02.799
most recently amended in article 3.31 wetlands protection under the town of Ammeris general bylaws. This is a notice of intent submitted by Berkshire Design Group on behalf of Ammeris Montasauri School for the renovation of a playground area within the buffer zone

208
00:57:02.799 --> 00:57:20.520
to bordering vegetarating vegetated wetlands at 27 Pomeroy Lane, map 20 C, lot 85. We'll look uh look to see who can join us for uh for this presentation.

209
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:39.119
If you're in the public attendee list, please uh raise your hand. >> So, good evening, Jeff Squire, also from the Birkshire Design Group.

210
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:57.280
>> Hello, Jeff. Uh, welcome. Um, if you don't mind stating who you're on there on behalf of and uh if you have any desired pronouns, preferred pronouns and then uh please run right into your uh

211
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:13.920
your presentation. >> Perfect. So yes, uh Jeff Squire, I'm a partner with the Birkshire Design Group here on behalf of the Amherst Monasuri School. Um I believe there's some representatives here also with us but um I will be leading this presentation. Um

212
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:30.799
and yeah happy to take everybody through the the through the history. Um actually I I Erin I don't know how you want to run this. I will happy to present the current application and and you can bring in some of the other details at the end if that seems appropriate. Um

213
00:58:30.799 --> 00:58:46.880
>> Jeeoff. >> So >> Jeff. >> Yes. just uh so the I don't I you must have missed it uh but uh what we uh the format that we use is uh five minutes uh more or less for uh

214
00:58:46.880 --> 00:59:03.440
uh for the applicant. Um then the town will have another five minutes to complement or or comment on uh uh the application. then the public will have another five minutes um uh if they are

215
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:19.680
uh have questions and so on and then it'll be the uh the commissioners. So just uh go ahead and give your presentation and then the town will uh uh will uh join will uh give their kind of side of their their thoughts on it.

216
00:59:19.680 --> 00:59:37.200
>> Sure. No, >> thank you. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the notice of intent in front of you, the application is really a renovation of their existing playground. Um, this parcel is at uh 27 Pomememoroy

217
00:59:37.200 --> 00:59:52.400
Lane. So, you can see the roundabout here at the junction of 116 and Pomeroy Lane. It sits back on somewhat of a flag lot. It was a parcel in a a property that they occupied in the 80s. Um in the

218
00:59:52.400 --> 01:00:09.599
uh around 2016 or 2013 2014 they expanded to the current um school that exists there now. The driveway comes in. There's a turnaround. Um there's a couple of drainage ditches along the edge, but mostly in the rear on the

219
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:24.799
south and east side are bordered by uh bording vegetated wetlands. Um and so I don't I didn't have any great images. I'm sure Aaron has some better ones from the sitewalk, but I thought these

220
01:00:24.799 --> 01:00:41.359
aerials that I I found were um pretty representative of what's on the site. So again, looking south at the at the school, you can see the playground in the back, the swing sets. Um there's some uh you know, culverts, tunnels, sandboxes, a number of different

221
01:00:41.359 --> 01:00:56.960
structures. Many of these are old, uh pressuretreated, you know, tire type structures. Um and so the goal of this project is really to, you know, renovate this playground in something that's a little bit more modern, a little bit

222
01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:13.440
more updated. Um, and so again, looking at a plan view of the site, south is to our right. Uh, north is to the to the left on this page. So, the driveway comes in from the

223
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:29.200
left portion of the, uh, lower lefthand portion of the site. You can see the turnaround. Um, the existing school, the playground really is captured within this darker dashed uh, line. Um there's no plans to expand the playground as it

224
01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:45.280
um as it currently exists. The wetlands as they were delineated in 2011 um are shown in blue here. Uh there's no um as as Aaron can speak to later. Uh Ward is scheduled to go out there and

225
01:01:45.280 --> 01:02:01.200
and confirm this delineation. There's no, you know, um, we don't anticipate that it's changed a lot, but the playground and certainly in terms of where it sits and where the, um, kids occupy now isn't isn't, um, anticipated to expand at all is just simply

226
01:02:01.200 --> 01:02:17.040
replacing some of the equipment they have there now. And so these areas highlighted, um, and with call outs are some of the, u equipment really just removing some of the old uh, retired equipment. That's uh like I said, it's

227
01:02:17.040 --> 01:02:32.880
pressuretreated wood and and outdated equipment, pipe equipment to a newer uh newer playground standard. All the surfacing around the playground equipment now is um is uh wood fiber. There's no um it's a natural, you know,

228
01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:49.119
wood playground product. There's no intention to change that. There'll be new material brought in just to accommodate you know some of the construction that happens and um you know require uh fulfill the fall requirements for these structures. But

229
01:02:49.119 --> 01:03:04.799
otherwise there's no you know there's no expansion of that um that surfacing. There's no you know rubberized surfacing. There's no other artificial surfacing that's brought in. This is all just to augment what exists there now. Um and this this happens in various

230
01:03:04.799 --> 01:03:21.200
locations around the site. Um I don't have you know examples of the exact equipment but this gives you an example of what um this is certainly representative of what is being proposed there now. So they have a small net climber. You know there was a u a

231
01:03:21.200 --> 01:03:37.119
footing for example that would get placed for this central pole. The rest of these are much smaller you know uh stake installations. um you know a a um a sway product that also just has a

232
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:53.680
central footing. So they'll remove what is there now um pull that out of the ground. What is there now is either in gravel or in concrete footings um and they'll simply come and install new concrete footings for the new products. Um but there isn't a lot of sight work. There isn't a lot of other disturbance

233
01:03:53.680 --> 01:04:09.039
that's required otherwise. And I thought I'd just grab a couple of examples from other projects, playground projects, just to demonstrate, you know, the limited nature of the disturbance. It's really we're, you know, it is all about these concrete footings here. Um, all of

234
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:24.480
these, you know, um, all of these products have footings with [snorts] the exception of a few. this um this cozy dome. There's a few that don't require the same amount of um you know u installation um footing requirement, but

235
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:39.280
you know net climbers will have one on either end. And so it's a fairly simplified um you know construction process and very isolated. We did update plans to provide some erosion control around those individual installations

236
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:54.960
installations when they happen. Um, but this is going to be sort of a phased, you know, project moving around the site. Um, you know, as a school schedule and and um, you know, contractor availability and weather allows, but um,

237
01:04:54.960 --> 01:05:12.400
it should be relatively quick. The disturbance should be minimal. And, um, like I said, it's really just upgrading an existing playground area that, um, you know, has existed on that site since the late 880s, I think. So um

238
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:30.480
with that I will leave it open to questions. Well thank you Jeff. Um, we'll uh we'll have some questions uh or comments and so on for you in the next uh in in about

239
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:48.960
uh 10 minutes or so or in the next 5 minutes after Aaron and the um uh public has uh their questions. Now we'll uh we'll turn it over to Aaron uh for the town's uh perspective. Aaron,

240
01:05:48.960 --> 01:06:07.839
>> thanks. Um, so, uh, there's there's a couple things going on on the site. Um, I think from my perspective, you know, I I mentioned the compliance matter, um, in in my report. Uh, I feel like it would be

241
01:06:07.839 --> 01:06:26.240
helpful for me to treat them separately, but I don't know, Andre, um, if you want me to go into details about the, um, compliance related issue or if you want to handle that separately. >> Sorry, I was muted. Um,

242
01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:41.440
actually, I think I would like to uh take them both together. Um, okay. because I I I feel like it's hard to consider um uh hard to consider a uh an NOI when

243
01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:58.720
there's a pen something pending. Um >> Okay. Okay. >> You know, in good faith, uh I think it would be good for us to uh go ahead and uh uh make cover them both uh together. >> Okay. So, um,

244
01:06:58.720 --> 01:07:14.160
in terms of the playground items, I don't have any, um, concerns. I've drafted an order of conditions, uh, which is in the packets. Um, I was concerned that the delineation was from like 2011 and we haven't had an update.

245
01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:30.880
Um, so there are conditions in the in the order that basically note that we're not confirming the accuracy of the wetland boundary. Um, however, the the proposed work in association with the playground replacement sounds like it's

246
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:47.839
going to be relatively low impact. Um, I did request erosion and sediment controls be added to the plan just as an added precaution. And there's some some noted conditions which I sent along to Jeff earlier. Um, so I just want to make it clear I don't have any issues with the with the

247
01:07:47.839 --> 01:08:05.760
playground side of the proposal. Um, so in terms of the the compliance item, um, and I did give a little bit of a a background on this, but I'll try to do it again. Um, which is, um, back around 2021, there was a, um, a wetland

248
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:22.319
violation that was identified on this site. Um, basically filling of a wetland swale that was immediately adjacent to the parking area turnaround. At the time, the commission required a notice of intent to be filed. And in early 2023, there was an order of conditions

249
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:40.560
drafted to um restore the wetland. Um the after the order of conditions was approved, um it kind of fell on radio silence. I ended up following up a couple times with the school to ask um what what the status of the swale

250
01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:58.080
restoration was. Um, as of 2024, I was told that the work had not been completed and um that they were still trying to find a contractor to do to do the work. So then fast forwarding to early June 2026, I was contacted by um a

251
01:08:58.080 --> 01:09:12.960
representative of the school um regarding the playground project. And at that time I asked about the status of the wetland restoration and um at that time it was uh conveyed to me

252
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:28.319
that the work had been completed um the work from the order of conditions had been completed which I found a little um concerning because there's an a number of elements of that order of conditions that would have required me

253
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:45.359
to be notified. posting of D file numbers, inspection of erosion controls prior to the work taking place and then inspecting controls prior to the controls coming out. So um we kind of discussed it and uh it was expressed

254
01:09:45.359 --> 01:10:02.320
that the work had been done. So we scheduled a site visit to go look at it today. Um, so I guess from a staff perspective on the swale, um, we when we got there, what it appeared the work that was done wasn't in compliance with

255
01:10:02.320 --> 01:10:17.760
the order of conditions to restore the swale. Um, it appears that there was just a breakdown of some sort in terms of communication and that basically the there had been like a um, driveway surfacing. So what happened was they

256
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:33.120
they filled in the swale and then put driveway surfacing to create like a new parking spot next to the turnaround. So um the work that had been completed it appears was to remove the gravel off the top of the top soil, seed it down kind

257
01:10:33.120 --> 01:10:50.400
of with like a lawn and then put the boulders around it with the signs that said wetland area don't disturb. So the swale wasn't actually restored. Um it was just kind of converted back to a lawn. Um, I also had concerns because there was a significant amount of yard

258
01:10:50.400 --> 01:11:06.480
waste which had been dumped into the wetland behind this restored swale where it was supposed to be, which was also a condition of the order that that wetland not be used for disposal of yard waste material. And um it's there's a there's

259
01:11:06.480 --> 01:11:23.440
a trash storage area right up against the wetland swale um to the to the east and it was full of like trash and um there was like old um so they had used a like a plastic um

260
01:11:23.440 --> 01:11:40.239
erosion control blanket on the area um where the the gravel had been removed and seated down. there was this plastic eroding control blanket and a portion of it had been like pulled out and thrown into the wetland on the side. So, um

261
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:55.679
we had a long conversation about all of these issues in the field u me Bruce and Carol and I think this is the the end result is the school really needs to move forward expeditiously with replacement of the playground and we want to work with them to facilitate

262
01:11:55.679 --> 01:12:10.080
that. Um however because of the compliance issues related to the order of conditions um in speaking with the head of the school the the feeling was that the best step would be for us to issue an enforcement order

263
01:12:10.080 --> 01:12:26.560
and be very um uh detailed about what our requirements were and that basically when they're in doing the playground equipment um replacement with the contractor that they would then address having the swale

264
01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:42.800
um uh the swale restoration completed at that time. So um you'll find in your packets under monator NOI that there's a draft order of conditions and then under the compliance folder in the packet

265
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:58.560
you'll find um a monatory folder with a draft um enforcement order and an an attachment to the enforcement order that details I guess what what my expectations would be in terms of um both projects being done and essentially

266
01:12:58.560 --> 01:13:15.199
being approved for work to begin tonight. Um, so that's that's a staff background, but uh I'm I'm happy to take questions, but Bruce and Carol, I think, can provide good context, too. >> Well, thank you, Erin. Um, let's let's

267
01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:29.040
see if the public has uh any questions or comments here, and then u then we'll have our in-house. Um, let's see. Raise your hand if you're in the uh member of the public and have a comment. I see

268
01:13:29.040 --> 01:13:50.159
that one hand up. Pete Mackey. Uh, welcome Pete Mackey. If you don't mind, uh, stating your name and, uh, address and, uh, your, uh, preferred pronouns if you have them. >> Thank you, sir. Uh, Pete Mackey, 648

269
01:13:50.159 --> 01:14:06.960
Station Road, Ammerst. I'm I frankly don't know if I'm a member of the public. I'm a member of the board of Ammerst Monatory School. Okay. >> So, I don't know if there's a distinction, but if >> that sounds good. >> Okay. I I first I want to thank the members of the commission and Aaron for

270
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:22.880
their time uh working with us yesterday and Aaron's extensive time with us over the last few months. Um I simply want to speak to the realities that Aaron has factually summarized um that our board has been coping with during a very

271
01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:40.320
challenging administrative turnover. We have learned a number of things including this that we're categorically determined to make right that we did not know of until very recently among many other such issues. So um I can only say on behalf of our our school we're sorry

272
01:14:40.320 --> 01:14:54.400
how this was handled. We are committed to solving the problem and doing it the way it needs to be done. So I just want to express that thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Mackey. And uh I think uh together we'll uh we'll be able to reach

273
01:14:54.400 --> 01:15:12.080
a uh reach a solution that's uh both uh going to help you and at the same time um uh mitigate what uh what hadn't been done. >> Thank you. >> Um we'll turn it now then. I don't see

274
01:15:12.080 --> 01:15:36.239
Oh, I do see another uh hand up. Jennifer Lefort. Uh Jennifer Lefort, welcome. Uh if you don't mind stating your uh your name, address, and preferred pronouns or or if you're doing uh here on behalf of uh

275
01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:52.880
someone who you're here on behalf of. >> Sure. My name is Jennifer Lefort. I use she her pronouns and my address is 15 Lynen Ridge Road in Ammerst. Um I'm the board president of Ammerst Monasuri and uh was recently the acting head into our

276
01:15:52.880 --> 01:16:09.920
until our new head of school Matt McCaffrey who's also here um joined us and I just want to underscore everything that Pete just said. Um we've uh we're very concerned about this. We're very committed um to remedying this both

277
01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:25.920
quickly um and you know with whatever company that we need to to hire to do that. So um I just wanted to let you know that there's three of us who are members um of the leadership team for the school um both employees and board

278
01:16:25.920 --> 01:16:43.440
members uh and our commitment is is very certain and strong. We want to do this as expeditiously as makes sense. Thank you, Jennifer. We appreciate that. Are there any um any other members of

279
01:16:43.440 --> 01:17:06.880
the public who would like to speak? I see no hands up. Um with that, then uh we'll turn it over to the uh to commissioners. And let me see if I can get this off uh my screen. I see there's a hand up. It

280
01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:20.880
happens to be Carol. Carol. >> Yeah, >> please. >> Um I want to I was I was at this site visit and um it was a long discussion. Um, I

281
01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:38.400
think part of it involved um an explanation and an understanding of of what it is that the conservation commission does and what we're responsible for. And there were

282
01:17:38.400 --> 01:17:56.719
two things that that I wanted to mention. One is that um I think that our our conservation agent Erin is um extraordinarily willing um to work with

283
01:17:56.719 --> 01:18:13.120
with people who who come with problems and um she was um open-minded and creative and figure and trying to figure out a way to to meet the needs needs of of the of the

284
01:18:13.120 --> 01:18:32.880
school in this situation and um I really appreciated that. And secondly, and I've thought this for a while as I've been coming to the conservation commission meetings just as a

285
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:49.440
an an observer uh and then as as a member is that a lot of the public really doesn't understand what this commission does and and it it makes the work more challenging and um I

286
01:18:49.440 --> 01:19:05.120
think that we could um look at making our making what our you know that our work is based on on state regulations. It's not our opinion and so on.

287
01:19:05.120 --> 01:19:20.320
Um and I think that the more the general public understands that the happier everybody will be. Thanks. >> Well, thank you Carol. Um, you know, uh,

288
01:19:20.320 --> 01:19:38.560
to your to your point, we've just had some, uh, torrential rains, uh, today and last night. And, uh, I know that there have been, uh, several, uh, several basements that have been flooded um, due to that. And

289
01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:54.320
uh I understand you know I know we all know that uh if there had been wetlands between uh you know in many of those cases wet uh some of the wetlands would have uh slowed down that surface water.

290
01:19:54.320 --> 01:20:10.719
Um, and that's a direct uh that's a direct result of uh of um the state and the town uh protecting uh wetlands and the conservation commissions uh uh using those laws uh to

291
01:20:10.719 --> 01:20:28.480
um to to uh conserve or preserve them. So yeah, that's a very good point, Carol. Thank you. >> Bruce has a question or comment. comment. Um, on balance, I agree with Erin's u

292
01:20:28.480 --> 01:20:45.760
attempt to enable both of these things and the request of the applicants to get these things resolved more or less simultaneously as best we can and I think it's in a fair outcome. I also want to make sure that we don't decide

293
01:20:45.760 --> 01:21:01.120
something that's in fairness no different than the big schools in town who often have a new request while they still have something going on and sometimes not very well over there and

294
01:21:01.120 --> 01:21:16.239
just because Ammeris Monasuri is small I don't think we should hold them to a different standard than Ammeris College or UMass or um the soontobe uh belated Um, Hampshire. Thank you.

295
01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:32.239
>> Thank you, Bruce. Jason. >> Uh, thanks. One of the I don't know, Aaron, if this can be added to the order of conditions, but looking through the photos, the trash bins that are right up against the edge,

296
01:21:32.239 --> 01:21:48.320
um, I would like to see some sort of actual barrier and cover. It doesn't appear that there's a dumpster. just looks like they're all, you know, 56 gallon trash cans. So, um,

297
01:21:48.320 --> 01:22:03.600
uh, I I' And when I say dumpster, meaning that a truck has to go in and like pick it up. So, I' I'd like to see a an actual barrier, not just two like what appears to be like similar to a split rail fence, um, but a barrier with

298
01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:18.400
a roof to prevent rain from contacting the trash and washing it into the wetlands and then to a barrier on the sides to capture or prevent any trash that might fall out of the bins or, you know, not, you know, not actually get

299
01:22:18.400 --> 01:22:34.400
into the bins from washing then into the wetlands. Um, and then in the photos from the 2022 violation, it appears that there's a snowblower sitting right next to the trash cans. Um, so there's snow on the

300
01:22:34.400 --> 01:22:52.400
ground in the picture. So it looks like my guess was that snowb blower was probably just used. Uh, but um I want to make sure that there's like equipment storage that things like that, especially equipment that potentially has gasoline or some sort of oil and uh

301
01:22:52.400 --> 01:23:09.920
other things that they're not being stored outside and coming in contact with storm water that would then potentially wash any pollutants into the wetlands. >> Great uh great points, Jason. Thank you.

302
01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:30.239
Um, so I I'll I'll have a little something to say. Apparently, there was a there was an issue with uh um how the uh former uh directors of uh this

303
01:23:30.239 --> 01:23:49.280
monastery school uh might have dealt with the uh with our uh wetland. um issue, the issue that we're talking about right now, the uh the enforcement issue. And um now a whole bunch of times

304
01:23:49.280 --> 01:24:06.560
gone by and uh we have new uh new folks in charge. Um, you know, normally I I would have a much I would have a lot more to say uh against um

305
01:24:06.560 --> 01:24:24.400
going ahead and approving things, but I think um the idea of having a uh an enforcement order um uh to to get things started is a good one. Um,

306
01:24:24.400 --> 01:24:41.040
you know, I uh yeah, I mean, it's uh we're looking at uh the issue that be this issue that began in 2021 and here we are 5 years later. Um and it uh and it came up essentially

307
01:24:41.040 --> 01:24:57.040
because there was a request for uh for you know essentially an NOI. So, um I understand that uh there's been a change in um in management um at the at the

308
01:24:57.040 --> 01:25:13.679
school and uh that there I guess the indication that I'm uh that I'm getting from uh from the uh from the board is that uh they're making a big change. So, um I'm in

309
01:25:13.679 --> 01:25:29.600
agreement with it. Uh although um yeah again I think it's hard to overlook uh the fact that it's been 5 years. Uh with that I'll I'll step aside and uh let Carol have her comment or question.

310
01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:47.520
Well, um I agree with what Jason uh pointed out about the way the trash storage is handled and I don't know how that was um described in the original plan for it, but I mean there clearly

311
01:25:47.520 --> 01:26:03.520
ongoing problems with with the way it's set up now. I don't know if that can be remedied in any way. I think we can uh request that that be put in into the order of conditions. Um

312
01:26:03.520 --> 01:26:19.280
is that right Aaron? So my recommendation would be that we include it in the enforcement um portion to require some sort of structural containment and cover over the trash storage area. And then also the um that

313
01:26:19.280 --> 01:26:36.880
any um equipment on site needs to be properly stored um in a in a clo you know a closed contained structure or or um you know either shed or or some other closed structure. I think those are really great and I think we can just add

314
01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:53.520
those to the enforcement. Um, uh, I don't, you know, if if they need additional time to, uh, come up with that, I'm comfortable with that. Um, because my number one concern, honestly, I think Audrey, you made an excellent

315
01:26:53.520 --> 01:27:09.360
point about the storm we had tonight. When this originally came about, it was reported to us, I believe, from an abutter who was having flooding on their property. And they basically reported to us that that water previously flowed

316
01:27:09.360 --> 01:27:25.360
from their property through this site drain. And so when the fill went in, it was blocking the water from moving from their property and then they were getting flooding in their on their property. Um, and so the fact that this has taken so long, you know, it's like

317
01:27:25.360 --> 01:27:42.000
that would be my number one concern to get that material out of there so that that swale can move and water can move through it. And um, and then once that's taken care of, again, they can we can include that that's a condition that needs to be addressed. Um, and perhaps,

318
01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:57.199
you know, add an additional, you know, 30 or 60 days or something to allow particularly the covering and containment of the trash. But I agree it is a problem. Um the trash was blowing into the wetland. There was a bunch of trash in there. Um so I think that's a

319
01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:12.639
great addition and thank you for adding that. >> Great. And thanks Aaron. Um let me uh just take a quick um quick survey if you don't mind. Um, just

320
01:28:12.639 --> 01:28:29.360
put your hand up if you're in agreement with having uh both an enforcement order and then uh approving uh the notice of intent. My hands up. Jason, Bruce. Okay. So, I think we're all uh we're all in

321
01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:44.400
agreement. Well, um if we have no other questions then, um Erin, have uh do you have some u motions or a motion to share with us? >> There's two separate motions here. So, I

322
01:28:44.400 --> 01:29:01.199
would definitely suggest we we have two separate motions for each of the items. >> Sounds [clears throat] great. Um so, there there are the motions, folks. >> I'll take the first one. Uh, I move to close the public hearing

323
01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:19.440
and issue an order of conditions for D number 0890769 under the wetlands protection act and wetlands protection under town of Ammeris general bylaw article 3.31 with the noted conditions. >> I second that.

324
01:29:19.440 --> 01:29:35.679
>> All right. Uh, Bruce uh has the motion and Jason seconded. Jason >> I. >> Daryl >> I. Sarah >> I >> Bruce >> I >> and I'm an eye. That motion is approved.

325
01:29:35.679 --> 01:29:50.480
>> I will move to issue the enforcement order to the Emmeris Monasury School at 27 Pomeroy Lane with conditions and requirements as drafted including the additional noted conditions. >> Seconded.

326
01:29:50.480 --> 01:30:07.199
>> Jason with a motion and Sarah seconds. Sarah, >> hi >> Carol. >> Hi, >> Bruce. >> Hi, >> Jason. >> Hi, >> you nomin. Uh, Mr. Squire. Uh, looks like uh we're

327
01:30:07.199 --> 01:30:23.040
we're set to move forward. Um, I appreciate your uh your presentation and I wish you all luck in uh moving forward and good luck uh getting the uh the swale back uh back into function. >> Thank you. I really appreciate the

328
01:30:23.040 --> 01:30:43.360
commission's time and Aaron especially and yeah, this is um glad we were able to resolve all this. So yeah, thank you everyone. >> All right, thank you. Have a good night. Now we're uh we're so we're back uh we're now down to uh

329
01:30:43.360 --> 01:30:59.360
back to the business that we were uh covering earlier. Um we have minutes and um land use updates which appear to be none and uh a few other items before we

330
01:30:59.360 --> 01:31:15.440
come back to um the cert the other business. So with that, um we have uh one, two, three, four sets of minutes. Um

331
01:31:15.440 --> 01:31:32.760
and unless we have questions on the minutes, we're looking for a motion to approve the minutes from 22526, 31126, 32526, and 4826. >> So moved.

332
01:31:33.280 --> 01:31:49.199
I second >> Sarah with the motion and Jason seconds. Jason >> I >> Carol >> I >> Sarah >> I >> Ruth >> abstain

333
01:31:49.199 --> 01:32:06.320
>> abstain um and I'm an I. So we're we've approved the minutes. Erin, are there any land use updates? I see it says none, but uh >> No.

334
01:32:06.320 --> 01:32:25.199
>> Okay. Then, um so we have a uh community community preservation act uh group. Um and uh there has been uh typically a

335
01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:40.800
representative from the uh conservation commission um as a liaison with them. I believe Jason's been doing this for at least the last uh year. Um and we're I think we're looking for

336
01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:56.480
uh someone to we're looking to appoint someone new. Um, Erin, did you have anything else on that? And maybe we can ask Jason a bit about it as well. >> No, I mean I I I got the impression that

337
01:32:56.480 --> 01:33:12.719
Jason was still interested in doing it, but I I don't want to speak for him. I just know he uh got reappointed to concom uh not that expecting to be reappointed to CPA. Uh, but I Jason, please correct me if

338
01:33:12.719 --> 01:33:29.520
I'm wrong or if you have other other thoughts about it. >> No, you're right. I'd love to do it again if if it's amendable to everybody else. >> Okay, >> great. Are there any others uh on the commission who uh would like to

339
01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:44.960
do it as well? I see no hands. Um, so how do we do this, Aaron? Do we vote or we uh uh >> um somebody would need to appoint Jason.

340
01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:59.760
So just make a motion to appoint Jason as the conservation commission CPA liaison and then um >> so moved. >> All right, Bruce moves to appoint Jason as a liaison. Do we have a second?

341
01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:16.800
>> Second. Oops. Sorry, Carol. Sorry. Carol second. Carol. >> Yes. Sarah. >> Hi, >> Bruce. >> Hi, >> Jason.

342
01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:31.199
You can vote for yourself. >> I [laughter] mean, I You're it. >> Congratulations, Jason. >> Thank you, Jason. >> Thanks for doing that on our behalf. >> Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for uh allowing me to.

343
01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:48.080
>> You got it. Um, Erin, you had a you had some uh commentary on First Amendment obligations uh uh for us. >> Yes. And I'm going to keep this really brief. Um, we recently had a a first

344
01:34:48.080 --> 01:35:02.320
amendment um uh kind of information session in town hall for um uh staff liaison to boards um just to discuss sort of expectations

345
01:35:02.320 --> 01:35:18.960
with um making sure that um first amendment rights are observed um in Ammerst. And I wanted to just share again just a couple bulleted items. Um, so it was really

346
01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:35.199
uh emphasized and I think we do this very well that um it's important for members of the public to be able to have a consistent forum and that includes like a time um window when they can

347
01:35:35.199 --> 01:35:51.120
provide public comment and I think the commission does a great job of um including public comment um at at many um junctures throughout the meeting. But that that twominut limit on public comment becomes very important.

348
01:35:51.120 --> 01:36:08.520
Um so the and the reason for that is because um legally uh a member of the public who comes to speak at a public meeting can say whatever they want um including

349
01:36:09.120 --> 01:36:24.000
um things that are inappropriate, things that are um they might be um uh swears. they might be, you know, things that people find very offensive. Um, and we

350
01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:40.400
we can't stop them in the middle of a public meeting from doing that. Um, if if we did if we said, you know, you're you're using profanity, we're going to we're going to stop you. Um, they can they can take legal action against the town. So, it's really important that

351
01:36:40.400 --> 01:36:56.880
they have their two minutes to speak. um if and and this has happened at many meetings where um a member of the public has spoken and um you know again it can include I I'm not going to use specific examples but

352
01:36:56.880 --> 01:37:12.239
it can include things that people find very hurtful or offensive and and if that happens um allowing them their two minutes to speak and then at the end of that sort of doing a reframe and stating you know it's it's important that people

353
01:37:12.239 --> 01:37:29.040
in attendance understand that the opinions that are expressed by those individuals don't reflect the opinions of the conservation commission or the town. Um but it's their first amendment right to to speak. Um and so uh just to make sure that that everybody

354
01:37:29.040 --> 01:37:46.159
understands if we get into a situation such as that um it can be very difficult but um it's it's something that we have to deal with. Um so the the difference with this is that

355
01:37:46.159 --> 01:38:00.960
that is specifically for public comment periods. So for example when Andre you call for public comment and we have those two-minute periods that's the opportunity for those folks any folk any

356
01:38:00.960 --> 01:38:17.920
attendees to speak. Um however we you know we have always had a very structured meeting where for example applicants give their presentation staff give their presentation and so forth. So, as an

357
01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:35.199
example, if somebody's going over their time, if if let's say any anybody, it could be an applicant, it could be a member of the public has gone over their time that has been allotted to them for their presentation or their um public comment. You as chair can say, "I'm

358
01:38:35.199 --> 01:38:51.600
sorry, but your time is up. Um, we're on to the next person." So, that two minutes is their opportunity to speak. we can't stop them from speaking during that limited time window, but um we have to provide that opportunity and

359
01:38:51.600 --> 01:39:06.639
that sort of provides the structure to allow us to keep moving. Um so I just wanted to make sure I shared this back with the commission. Um it's very complicated and confusing from a staff standpoint. Um this doesn't

360
01:39:06.639 --> 01:39:22.480
include folks who are disruptive to meetings. So people who interrupt and and again I know we meet on Zoom. So you know if you're in an in-person meeting it's a lot easy easier for somebody to you know jump up and

361
01:39:22.480 --> 01:39:40.080
start um disrupting the meeting. In a Zoom meeting it's a little more difficult to do that. But but if that happened during a meeting Andre you would have the ability to say you're disrupting our meeting right now. This isn't a public comment window. I'm going to have to ask you to to you know or

362
01:39:40.080 --> 01:39:56.239
that's an opportunity where you can step in to stop if somebody's disrespecting or interrupting or you know speaking out of turn disrupting the meeting. So just want to sort of frame this all out for everybody. I'm happy to answer what questions I can and um

363
01:39:56.239 --> 01:40:12.880
hopefully that's informative to everyone. >> Well, thanks. It is uh quite informative. Um, so public comment, first amendment. Uh, what about uh what about presentations?

364
01:40:12.880 --> 01:40:28.560
>> Right. So if if a presentation goes off the rails and it begins to either go overtime andor become disruptive to the function of the meeting in some way, you you can as chair say um you've had your

365
01:40:28.560 --> 01:40:44.480
opportunity to present. Now we move on to you know staff presentation or commission presentation or public comment period. Um so there that is your sort of ability to structure things if things get out of hand or off the rails

366
01:40:44.480 --> 01:41:00.960
or whatever. >> Yeah. I was just thinking of the you know what if uh your example of the profane uh language and uh so on um is coming from a presenter as well. It's not just the So that applies to them as

367
01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:17.119
well, not just the uh the public that's commenting, right? >> That's correct. Um so again, I think those those f those five minute windows, those two-minute windows become very very important. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Bruce.

368
01:41:17.119 --> 01:41:34.880
So Erin, in your description of this extreme, relatively highly unlikely circumstance, um, is there one step further that Andre could take, which is to cut the mic? Can he and you with your technical help

369
01:41:34.880 --> 01:41:50.320
cut the person off by eliminating, you know, sending them out back into the void >> after two minutes? Maybe >> after two minutes or after five minutes. But I'm especially the two-minute one. Can you just cut the mic? >> Yes. >> Okay.

370
01:41:50.320 --> 01:42:07.040
>> After 2 minutes. Yes. >> That's what I wanted to emphasize. It's not just Andre saying, "No, your time is up." He can make the time up if it's really bad. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Bruce.

371
01:42:07.040 --> 01:42:22.480
Um, so one other uh quick thing I wanted to just make you aware of is that the D is in the process of um revising uh some of its regulations around um restoration projects in the state of Massachusetts.

372
01:42:22.480 --> 01:42:38.239
I think I forwarded you guys the email. There was a information session today, but basically they're they're attempting to make it easier for restoration projects because historically it's been really difficult to go through a restoration project. Uh Jason alluded to

373
01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:55.040
this earlier today when he mentioned the Puffers Pond Dam. Um a dam removal project can take um permitting wise it can take 5 to 10 years to to permit. Um, and so, uh, we recognize or I think the state recognizes that these, um,

374
01:42:55.040 --> 01:43:10.560
restoration projects are critically important, uh, for climate change, for long-term, um, sustainability, etc. And so, we want to that, the state wants to encourage, um, those restoration projects. And so, there's some regulatory adjustments that they're

375
01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:28.480
making um, that will make restoration projects a little more streamlined from a permitting standpoint. I attended the training today. Um again very dry material but they went through um and you know I think MACC is doing some lunch and learns in the future that will be covering kind of the specific

376
01:43:28.480 --> 01:43:44.000
regulatory a lot of the projects do refer to um um coastal projects uh you know like salt marsh restorations and uh cranberry bog restorations and stuff like that but

377
01:43:44.000 --> 01:44:02.440
um there are there are elements of it that do apply to us. So, um, anybody who's interested, uh, that's something to keep in mind, and I'll continue to keep you guys updated as regulatory amendments, uh, come into effect.

378
01:44:03.360 --> 01:44:20.400
>> Well, great. Thank you, Erin. Any questions on those? >> No questions. Um, uh, now we're move we'll move on to, uh, other business, unless I miss something. Um, under other business, uh, we we've got, uh, some

379
01:44:20.400 --> 01:44:37.360
requests for certificate of compliance for Middle Street Culverts, Pop Wine Lane Culverts, and then the Amorest Regional High School track. >> Yes. So, um,

380
01:44:37.360 --> 01:44:51.600
I have been to all of these sites. These sites are all over 90% stabilized. the work has been completed on all of these sites. Um I was not able to go through each of the

381
01:44:51.600 --> 01:45:09.280
orders of conditions to itemize the um ongoing conditions that are required for each each one. So, you guys may notice that when I um tee up a a motion for uh a certificate of compliance, it'll say a

382
01:45:09.280 --> 01:45:26.320
complete certificate of compliance with the following noted ongoing conditions and then it'll specify what those ongoing conditions are. In this case, I didn't have an opportunity to do that yet. Um so, we can do one of two things this evening. Um the commission can

383
01:45:26.320 --> 01:45:42.159
um move to um issue a complete certificate of compliance on all of them and make a notation that um that they will defer to the conservation agent to include the ongoing conditions that are

384
01:45:42.159 --> 01:45:57.040
referenced in the orders of conditions for each permit to include um in the certificates. or if you'd prefer to table this um to the next meeting, I can um have that information ready to um provide in

385
01:45:57.040 --> 01:46:21.880
greater detail for motions at that time. >> Uh any questions so far? Yeah, Jason. >> Yeah, thank you. Um Aaron, in looking at the Middle Street Culver pictures, it appears that they used a

386
01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:37.760
straw waddle with a photogradable polyropylene mesh. They used plastic mesh >> on the straw waddles. >> Straw waddles. Yep. >> No, no, no. Not the straw waddles. The straw blanket. >> Oh, on the straw blankets. >> Yeah.

387
01:46:37.760 --> 01:46:54.800
>> Okay. Um, so, um, I will double check that, but on site I don't believe, um, I mean, I'll double check, but I'm I think that they're the ones that are the stitched

388
01:46:54.800 --> 01:47:10.239
ones that are um, they're almost like a a string um, with the fabric. But I'll double check that and if there if there is in fact polyropylene. Usually I'm that's like the first thing I see. So I'm surprised that I didn't. Um but I'll

389
01:47:10.239 --> 01:47:26.400
uh make sure that they remove that if it's in fact on the same. >> Yeah. So here's the problem. When they do this, it appears to me it's the green polyropylene looks like a single or double net straw blanket

390
01:47:26.400 --> 01:47:41.840
that now has vegetation growing through it. Mhm. >> So, if they remove the polyropylene netting, the straw is going to come up with it and some of the vegetation's going to come up with it. >> Mhm. >> So,

391
01:47:41.840 --> 01:47:57.199
then they may have to go in there and reveate or reed with potentially 100% biodegradable blanket in place. um which is what

392
01:47:57.199 --> 01:48:15.119
I don't know if we required that prior to this project when they had the NOI and it's or you know in any orders of condition for this project but >> that's one of the reasons why we want to make sure that this doesn't happen in the future. Um so it looks to me like

393
01:48:15.119 --> 01:48:30.320
it's polyropylene. I'd love for you to check on site. I'm more than happy to go there on site. Um, and I just want to reiterate that biodegradable and photogradable are not the same thing. >> Yeah.

394
01:48:30.320 --> 01:48:46.400
>> So, if that is a if that is the polyropylene that's all going to have to come up or would it I guess also maybe that's my question. Would it have to come up? Is it in their orders of condition that only biodegradable

395
01:48:46.400 --> 01:49:02.159
products can be used? And are we at a can we at this point require that? >> So I will I will check on that um in advance of the next meeting, Jason. All of those details. Um but yeah, I

396
01:49:02.159 --> 01:49:17.679
mean it's it's you said it was at the Middle Street site that you saw it on the photos or the pot wine. >> Yeah, it appears to be the Middle Street site and uh I didn't see any at the hot wine. Um, it doesn't look like they have

397
01:49:17.679 --> 01:49:35.199
much in way of blanket there. Um, I just see like some straw and some like a hay bail and some silk fence there. >> Yeah. So, can you uh I just want to make sure that we're um do you do you happen to have like a

398
01:49:35.199 --> 01:49:51.679
um a photo number on that >> where you're seeing it? >> Yeah. If you if you look at um photo, you know, n 911 and zoom in or you can I mean you can

399
01:49:51.679 --> 01:50:10.400
look at pretty much >> any one of the photos and just magnify it and zoom in and you can see the green um [clears throat] shiny green plastic netting there. >> So I have a um I have a an idea. I don't

400
01:50:10.400 --> 01:50:25.760
really feel um I don't I don't really feel like I want to go ahead and approve this and then um leave it leave uh leave every leave things uh kind of loose if you would. Why don't we table this uh

401
01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:42.639
these three and um Aaron will have a chance to uh get a view of the uh uh Middle Street covert and make sure that uh or double check on what uh materials were used and at the

402
01:50:42.639 --> 01:50:59.440
same time um she'll have a chance to finalize the ongoing conditions um so that we can approve it uh as a And I think I'd rather do that. Uh but prior to that, Bruce does have a a

403
01:50:59.440 --> 01:51:15.600
question. So, >> um given that, no, I withdraw. >> I mean, that's my that's my uh that's what I propose. You know, we're I don't >> Well, actually, I will I'll ask a general question without the detail. We're getting to the end of the meeting

404
01:51:15.600 --> 01:51:31.840
here. So um in for [clears throat] both Jason and Aaron um is it common that you give a certificate of compliance and the the freestanding um erosion controls are still sitting there >> and

405
01:51:31.840 --> 01:51:48.000
>> yeah so so um I was out with them to give to grant permission for the controls to come out. um that was what that that site visit was for and at that time I recommended that they file a certificate of compliance um because of the >> vegetation on the sites.

406
01:51:48.000 --> 01:52:04.000
>> It just happens that the picture shows the controls there but they're not if I went there now they wouldn't be well they should have been removed. They should have been removed already. Okay. >> Um Beth did ask me do you want a another site visit now that we've taken controls down and I said I don't think we need

407
01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:19.199
one but um >> I think that Jason's point is a good one. And just for the record, I mean, this is a is it issue with that polyropylene um erosion control blanket that I deal with almost every single site visit I go

408
01:52:19.199 --> 01:52:36.239
on. And I do explicitly state it when I do preconstruction meetings. I explicitly state it. Um it just seems like it's it's a continuous struggle to um to deal with.

409
01:52:36.239 --> 01:52:52.719
And even I mean just as an example, I am like I'm I'm aware of it and I am alert to it and I look for it when I go out to sites, but apparently I missed it on this one. Um even though I was out there doing an inspection, I didn't see it. So, you know, uh because the veg was

410
01:52:52.719 --> 01:53:08.880
grown in. So, you know, it's it's a it's a challenge for sure. >> These are town projects. So, at a bigger minimum, we should prevent the town from doing it. Well, it's not it's not really a town. I mean, so it is a town project

411
01:53:08.880 --> 01:53:25.840
in that we're hiring uh we're bidding out to a contractor to do it. It's not like it's the DPW out there doing it. >> Um, >> fair enough. >> It's a, you know, there's a they do a bid process and they hire a contractor and then the contractor does the work. So, and that's usually where the

412
01:53:25.840 --> 01:53:43.119
breakdown happens is with the, >> you know, if it's the DPW, they do a great job. like they're they're out there with their jute net, you know, um or the jute mesh or whatever. Um so anyway, >> yeah, Erin, could I and maybe you could

413
01:53:43.119 --> 01:53:59.920
show this. So I want to I'd like to just make one point of distinction. I don't know, Bruce, if you were talking about like vertical controls. >> Yes. >> So vertical controls are sediment controls. They're meant to slow water, allow sediment to drop out of suspension, prevent sediment from

414
01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:15.040
leaving the site. Erosion controls are flat. Erosion control is covering the ground. It's preventing it's reducing the erosive potential of raindrops as they hit the soil. So, it's preventing the dislodging of sediment particles.

415
01:54:15.040 --> 01:54:34.080
>> Okay. So Erin, could you share photo um 112049 just by way of like just so I want to these erosion controls like this, >> they don't get removed generally. >> Um an erosion control blanket like the

416
01:54:34.080 --> 01:54:49.840
one in the photo that Aaron will show you. Um they put the soil down. Generally they they'll put soil down, they'll put seed down, and then they put the erosion control blanket down. And what happens is then as the as the seed

417
01:54:49.840 --> 01:55:06.719
germinates, the grass, you know, if you have if this is the blanket, it grows through it like that, >> right? >> So when you if you take the blanket out, you you can rip a lot of that. >> No, I understand that part. I was talking about the vertical ones.

418
01:55:06.719 --> 01:55:22.560
>> Yeah. So the verticals like silt fence, straw waddles, compost socks, hay bales, those are all sediment controls and those all have to come out >> at the end of a project. >> But erosion control blankets.

419
01:55:22.560 --> 01:55:38.719
>> Understood. Thank you. >> So the plastic ones are only supposed to be temporary. They're not >> in a permanent condition. >> Yeah. [clears throat] Okay. Thank you. >> Sorry, my um remote [laughter] computer kicked me out. So that's why I couldn't get into my computer. I'm back in now. What What photo did you want me

420
01:55:38.719 --> 01:56:00.159
to share? >> It was uh 11249. >> I um I had a stint where I did um landscaping and uh clearing those out is um

421
01:56:00.159 --> 01:56:16.159
is an absolute mess. Jason. >> Yeah. On the side of highways when they mow. It's impossible not to rip it apart into pieces and it it's just it's really it's a real mess >> and it breaks down and and then goes right, you know, then you get more

422
01:56:16.159 --> 01:56:32.960
plastics in the water. But here, if you if you zoom in on the bottom part, you can see Aaron the like the polyropylene mesh is that green shiny plastic mesh generally. Um, but you can see really here, >> I don't know if you guys can actually

423
01:56:32.960 --> 01:56:50.960
see that, but you can see like where the straw goes in in one direction and in in another, and then they sandwich it between the mesh. And as the straw bodegrades, the mesh is left there. >> Okay. >> Right above pipe is a is a little bit of

424
01:56:50.960 --> 01:57:05.199
section where >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I've been doing this for 20 years, too. So, I can I can I can see this pretty. >> Yeah. Well, I will definitely follow up on that um just to get a an answer and also check the order of conditions just

425
01:57:05.199 --> 01:57:22.840
to um see if that was a specific condition in there. Um >> so, we'll we'll address it one way or another at the next meeting >> and we should celebrate the improved Culbert. >> Just saying. >> Absolutely, without a doubt.

426
01:57:22.960 --> 01:57:38.400
All right. So, uh, compliance, uh, will be, uh, moved to next week. Do we need a motion for that? >> Um, >> do you want me to give an update on Olympia or or on Olympia Oaks or we're going to miss that one tonight?

427
01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:53.280
>> Uh, well, we're we're do uh Yeah, I just wanted to move from >> Oh. Oh, for certificates of compliance. Yes. Sorry. >> Yes. >> Um, >> so we don't need a motion for that, right? >> No, >> just move it uh to next week. And then we have uh under other business

428
01:57:53.280 --> 01:58:11.360
monitoring reports and for Hickory Ridge or do you want to uh actually let's uh let's talk about um what is it? Olympios please.

429
01:58:11.360 --> 01:58:26.400
>> And then sure if we have time we can uh talk about monitoring reports but uh maybe we should bump that to the next week. we're we're sort of running with. >> Sure. I think I can go pretty quickly. Um so for Olympia Oaks um there are

430
01:58:26.400 --> 01:58:43.440
correspondents in the folder under um compliance. We I received a call um well so the backstory is that there was a fire at Olympia Oaks and one of the structures um burned. They were planning to demo

431
01:58:43.440 --> 01:58:59.199
the wooden part of the structure but preserve the foundation to rebuild on the existing foundation for a new a new building. Um I had worked [clears throat] out the details with them with erosion controls with specifics about um um mats for equipment

432
01:58:59.199 --> 01:59:15.440
and everything so there'd be zero ground disturbance and that they wouldn't need to file a permit. However, um uh last week I received a call from the project manager saying that in the middle of the demo um there w there there was a

433
01:59:15.440 --> 01:59:32.400
problem discovered and there was concern that the foundation was going to um collapse. And so they took an emergency measure which was to remove some soil from up against the edge of the foundation to relieve pressure on the foundation to prevent it from collapsing.

434
01:59:32.400 --> 01:59:48.080
Um, I checked in with Andre as well as with the um, building commissioner about the issue and the building commissioner recommended that they speak to their engineer to um, put install a brace system on the interior of the foundation

435
01:59:48.080 --> 02:00:04.000
to address the issue and um, both Andre and the building commissioner agreed not to issue an emergency certification because of the situation. So, I relayed this back to the um project manager and they backfilled and they installed the brace for the

436
02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:21.119
foundation. They put um erosion control blankets down and um seed and stuff and they they stopped um with any further excavation work. And so, um I'm comfortable at this point that

437
02:00:21.119 --> 02:00:37.520
there's no um well, let's put it this way. I don't from a staff standpoint, I'm not sure there's anything else that needs to be done. Whether the commission decides they want to do something in terms of enforcement or otherwise, that's up to the commission. Um, however, I think

438
02:00:37.520 --> 02:00:56.000
they they did have some guidance from an engineer that there was concern about the foundation collapsing and so um they felt like they were doing the right thing to prevent a bigger problem from happening with more environmental impact. So, um I will defer to the board

439
02:00:56.000 --> 02:01:12.480
of how you want to deal with it, but um I'm not recommending any action um at this point on that. >> Thanks, Aaron. I have a quick comment. Um, I'm kind of surprised that they um

440
02:01:12.480 --> 02:01:30.239
that they might have uh that they would have uh listened to the engineer who uh the engineer who told them to uh that there was a problem and that they needed to uh do this dig um along the uh

441
02:01:30.239 --> 02:01:46.560
along the outside of the U foundation. Um, if that's the same engineer who uh who oversaw this project because they should they would they should have over they should have foreseen this um you

442
02:01:46.560 --> 02:02:03.679
know and uh if it was uh you know whatever emergency it was they they should have been calling uh calling the town uh to figure this out. I mean, um I just can't imagine that uh all of a sudden somebody came there and um told

443
02:02:03.679 --> 02:02:18.159
them that they have a problem and they need to dig it up and they just dug it up in in 2 minutes without having an opportunity to make a phone call. That said, um it looks like uh the harm

444
02:02:18.159 --> 02:02:37.159
or the damage uh was reversed in as much as possible and uh not going to be repeated. I would hope that's all that I have to say so far. Anyone else?

445
02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:56.000
Um if everybody is uh okay with uh so your recommendation Erin is to just move on uh with no further action on this right. Uh you're you're muted but I I I got your uh your nod of okay. Would you lift

446
02:02:56.000 --> 02:03:13.520
your hand if you agree that um uh that we should uh just go ahead and put this behind us? That's all of us. I think we're all in agreement then. Aaron. Um uh so yeah, good uh good work there getting them to

447
02:03:13.520 --> 02:03:30.880
um reverse what they did and um and thanks for that. >> Yes. >> And now moving on to the last uh of the last of our um

448
02:03:30.880 --> 02:03:48.880
agenda and so on. what we uh we give the public a an opportunity to ask questions or make any comments uh prior to um adjourning for further meeting. So please uh raise your hand if you do have

449
02:03:48.880 --> 02:04:05.760
a question or a comment. I see no one in the public with uh questions or comments. So, I do see uh that Bruce has a >> I'm just wondering if we're if we're pushing the request to cease inspections at Hickory Ridge to the next meeting.

450
02:04:05.760 --> 02:04:20.480
>> We are. >> Oh, thank you. >> Good to know. >> Then I move we adjourn. >> Uh one one uh repeat that in about a minute or so. >> Okay, I'm I'm happy to do that.

451
02:04:20.480 --> 02:04:41.679
>> Thank you. Are there any topics uh that are not that were not reasonably uh anticipated 48 hours before the meeting? No one on uh no one for us. Uh no one of the attendees.

452
02:04:41.679 --> 02:04:57.920
So then uh Bruce, you had something? >> Now I move to adjourn. >> I'll second that. Uh Bruce with a motion and Jason second. Jason >> Hi. >> Sarah. >> Hi. >> Carol.

453
02:04:57.920 --> 02:05:14.960
>> Hi. >> Bruce. >> Hi. >> Nam and I. Um. Well, thank you all for another good meeting and we'll see you in about two weeks I think. Um. Right. >> So, is it in two weeks or one week? it

454
02:05:14.960 --> 02:05:31.280
it's at our normal time which is the second uh second Wednesday of uh of the month and I can't tell you the actual date just yet but >> it's August 12th. >> August 12th. >> Okay.

455
02:05:31.280 --> 02:05:40.480
>> All right. Well, thanks everyone and have a good two weeks. Huh? Yep. Bye. Bye. >> Bye guys. Have a good night. >> Good night.