we're recording okay uh welcome to the ammer design review board meeting of March 17 2025 happy St Patrick's Day to those of you who acknowledge that uh my name is Eric aikas and as the chair of the ammer
design review board I'm calling this meeting to order at 5:07 p.m. the meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the town of ammer YouTube channel minutes are being taken person to chapter 20 the acts of 2021
and extended Again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be
made to ensure that the public can adequately address uh access the proceedings in real time via technological means a hyperlink to the hearing is posted on the town's online cend board members I'll take roll call when I call your name let me know that you're
here Lindsay schar here Karen winter here Pat o present Karen Blum is not here this evening and Eric Aiko's present board members if technical issues arise we may need to pause
temporarily to fix the problem and then continue the meeting if the discussion needs to pause it will be noted in the minutes please use the raised hand function to ask a question or make a comment I'll see your request and call on you to speak after speaking please
remember to remute yourself the general public comment item is reserved for public comment regard regarding items that are and are not on tonight's agenda Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during the general public comment period public comment could also be heard at other times
during the meeting if determined appropriate please indicate that you wish to make a comment by clicking the r hand button when public comment is solicited if you've joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate that you wish to make a comment by pressing star9 on your phone when
called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the chair if a speaker does not comply with the guidelines or exceeds their allotted time their
participation will be discontinued from the meeting tonight's agenda includes the following we'll start with general public comment period and we have two applications tonight drb FY 2025 number 12 uh and
25148 North Pleasant Street exchanged thrift shop and item 13 or 252 uh ammer Youth Soccer Association at pot wine um and so uh then we'll do uh approval of meeting minutes and any
other business um so let's get started with general public comment uh are there any members of the public who wish to share uh a thought tonight we don't have anyone in the audience all right
then so then any representatives from exchange Jack Mandy will be joining us shortly good evening welcome how are you fine thanks we're happy to hear from you um we would love it if you could walk us
through your proposal yeah um just describe a little bit what you're planning to do and then we'll uh have some questions and answers and um take a take a motion yeah um so I've already talked with the building manager
and the property manager about the signage um I was kind of back and forth on where to put it and what it's going to look like um so they said they want it right in between the works and 101 and that they would prefer to look like
the 101 sign and um the uh the Fast Signs made a couple and this is what the uh property manager chose um but it's pretty simple um our name exchange and then right below is Thrift Consignment and
Community if you scroll up a little bit right there it says uh that and it should fit just perfectly in between the two signs already there got it and um what are the materials
again um I'm not it should say somewhere on here maybe doesn't say on here I can try and look in an email but um but Rachel who made the
sign um that's probably a her question I'm sorry I'm not able to answer that on the application um okay um anything else to add to that Mr Mandy um no okay drb
members any um observations questions Lindsay go ahead hi um I do have a few questions It's Tricky not knowing what the material is because that does seem like it would make a difference do you know if the
white and the black are in the same plane as one another or the same material as one another um I do know that it's the same material as one another um CU it's not sticking out like the one like 101 okay okay that's
helpful um but I also do know that it's like weatherproof that's the one that I also chose um so I'm not really sure what the coding over it is but that's all all I really know but I can email her the exact
um what the materials are right now um okay and then my other two comments are just so it looks like it goes literally from corner to corner yep is that true or is there any space
on either Edge uh there's like there's probably like a couple inches in between um I know that they just like kind of like um I don't know how like what they did on their computer to like flop it in
there but um they said there's a couple inches off each side but it's the same height and almost the same width as 101 there's a little longer that's it for me now okay and I see
Karen's hand as well and it looks like it's black and yellow on my screen and the 10 one is black and white is and I'm wondering if the white could if you have a a choice
and if you agree whether it could be a little bit more in tone in keeping with the side next to it just to make it more harmonious it's not a big thing but it might make it blend in more attractively
Yep um so 10 one uses um a a whitish grayish font and I talk to them um I I can see on this picture it definitely looks slightly yellow it definitely is not it's definitely a more whitish with a like a little gray in it that matches
10 ones um but I can definitely see what you're saying but it's definitely um white with a little grayish in it I think my comments are um I appreciate that you're matching the first of all the the height dimension of the 101 sign I think that that's a a
really important move for this for this location um and I also appreciate appreciate that you're matching the colors of 101 I and I'm going to take you at your word on that um I I do think however that it feels
very crowded and so for me I think my recommendation or the thing that I'd be interested in is maintaining the height but shrinking the width and that probably means scaling down the text a
little bit because I just I feel like it's a a long string and while you're coordinating with the neighboring sign you don't want it to blend into the neighboring sign and so I think that that just a couple inches Gap
actually wants to increase to at least six inches and still stay centered over the window yeah I can definitely do that um and I agree with that as well because I don't want it to
look like one big sentence almost with exchange 101 yeah yeah well said I feel like that's what's that's what could happen it's certainly what's happening for me in this rendering yep Lindsay go
ahead I just want to pipe in on that same kind of train of thought I think that was really well put words to some of my thoughts around kind of the relationship being a little too Too Close um and the other
thing that I'm feeling is that the the similarity is it's almost like too similar without being the same in my opinion um and I think that where it's not the same as the font
style um you know the font type and I guess I would ask the question of like what needs to be the same I think the height definitely wants to be the same as Erica
noted I don't mind having the same kind of like bubble um but I feel like the black and white and I think this is part of what Karen picked up on with the like tone
issue because it's not because it's so similar it feels like it wants to be the same and so I'm wondering if there's a way to make like exchange perhaps a different color you know like a something that's just totally
different from the 101 um just to really differentiate it so it doesn't look like one long sentence so it has a purpose for being a different font so that there's not this kind of like contrast in the tone of the
white um I I feel like that would really help um you can keep the same kind of like language that you have but just even perhaps a color change would help differentiate it and I agree with pulling it in from the sides
but okay um do you have any other colors in your uh promotions palette um no um but I know Rachel who like makes ass signs can like get that done with many options very fast um I'm
still trying to bounce through the also the property manager cuz he was also like he he wanted to look black and white um but I totally agree what you guys are saying um but I'm okay with with trying to
change the um the letter [Music] coloring and then seeing what looks best anybody um here on the on the committee have suggestions about the call oh I'm sorry
I'm seeing Pat's hand and uh also just want to plant the seed about kind of suggestions for colors you you you still want some contrast on the on the black background but um Pat please yes no I I agree with you Erica and Lindsay's comments I guess my question for Mr
Mandy is is the sounds like the property manager is requesting the black and white and would it would would the introduction of a color be acceptable because I think that's
another card that's in in this hand of decision making um but but possibly if we can suggest some colors then Mr Mandy can go back to the property manager maybe have a mockup of several different
colors and see what the property manager says but I think I think shortening the sign to keep it separate from 101 and not that big long sentence it looks like it could be the same business and that's not going to serve
anybody um yeah I can definitely I like the idea of giving the property manager a bunch of different um examples because um they were pretty not strict but um definitely wanted this signed to look
just like 101 he didn't I mean his wor it was a small sentence of him saying um that he wants it to look exactly like 101 um but I think I can give him some options and then talk about that after
okay because I agree I don't want it to look just like 10 ones but I I'll I'll definitely decrease uh the width as well okay I'm just got one more comment I'm looking more closely at the photo that's up um and the work seems to have some
colorful icons over the word the works and so there is color there on the building it would seem if if what I'm think I'm seeing is true yeah I think you're right about that yeah Karen go for it um well and if he's
complet sold on black and white there's probably the possibility of just exchanging having a white background and black lettering on it I wonder and and I I I definitely agree pulling it in a little from the side is going to be an
improvement but um yeah so what about I it's a great idea to make a couple of markups because I think then when you come to him he's going to see oh this looks nice and looks nice and you'll that's that's just good to give somebody
Choice yeah I think that's a great idea um may I ask you are you going to have any other signage is there any permanent signage on the door for example or to direct people downstairs or um no just
that sign we were thinking uh maybe putting like the um like a like a not a neon but some sign in the window that kind of like that you can take down and put away that says exchange um maybe
something on our door there's nothing sometimes people like to post their hours or things like that with like a vinyl yeah um we don't have anything for that right now but we were maybe planning on doing that in the future
okay right that's something that usually comes before this committee as well so I'm just asking the question since you're here and if we are going to ask you to come back next month um with some options then we would want to address those things at the same time so yeah
that I put it out there um should I take a stab at summarizing our comments or does anybody have anything else to add to the dialogue at this point no okay so our
recommendations are to return in a month to the drb uh with a a redesign of the sign that continues to match the height of
101 but shortens the sign with a goal of maintaining a gap of six inch or more between the two signs the sign should remain centered over that window I think uh um and then
to try some different color combinations obviously with the approval of your building manager but if if they uh if they approve then you know bring some options or a different option back to the board did I miss anything okay
um chair zikos do we want to just talk about the next meeting date so that they know I know the 21st is a holiday so I was proposing the 28th of April board members can we check calendars now is that within the scope
of possibility I'm looking at I don't want to be stingy but is there any way we could do the week before if not that's totally fine um the we I I cannot do that night I'm gonna be at a
okay work event was that the 14th or the the 28th sorry I can I can't do the 28th because I'm at a I have a a meeting presentation um but the 21st I think is probably fine um I think the 21st is Patriots
Yeah so it's not it's a a day off the four the 14th is over yeah I'm fine with that okay this is Pat the 14th is fine with me it's fine with me as
well what about you Karen um I hate I hate I hate to say this but I'm going to be in Paris that sounds great well um if if uh Karen uh Bloom can join us and we'll have a quum and you could
sit one out why don't we tentatively say the 14th of April and um we will check that we have a quorum and make that make that date public as soon as we can thank you for raising that question
just in the no problem okay so um um do we need to votee on this on the recommendations as recently summarized um I would say you're asking
him to come back right we're asking him to come back yeah so we're kind of continuing to the next state certain yeah so if that all sounds good to you um Jack we could revisit this uh next month yep that sounds good
fantastic all right thank you Jack thanks have a nice evening you too bye okay great okay and now we move on to the
shed wine so Megan rhods will be joining shortly and Mora Kean will also be joining again hi there how are you good how's the rooster not mine you've got the rooster
yeah I don't hear it no okay it's just Megan s right okay Megan do you want to walk us through the the shed uh and design and can can you screen share or do you
want oh I guess just on okay cool great thank you yeah just quick overview and thank you for having me tonight so I am the President of the AMU Soccer Association we are this season we're up to 470 kids in the town providing soccer
uh to kids and we operate out of the Plumbrook fields on pot wine Lane that they're town-owned by the Town recreation um department and we have because we're such a large operation these days we've been operating all of
our equipment out of a storage facility and it's been really difficult it's we're all volunteer run organization and having to schleps paint liners and flags and Nets from every weekend basically all year long at this point I mean fall
and spring Seasons it's a lot to ask of our volunteers and we're having trouble recruiting volunteers and part of it is just because they you know that's one more thing that they have to do so I'm hoping to put a shed on the site um so to minimize that's one last thing for our volunteers to do and kind of
centralize our operations um I'm proposing to put the shed where that red rectangle is located on the fields I've worked with the town Highway the town Department of Public Works um and the Recreation Commission on this and um they are in favor of also contacted the
wetlands uh concom agent about this location and they are all in agreement that that as a good location um we're looking at a 10 X6 wooden shed it's going to be prefabricated we're hoping to purchase it through Palmer shed sales we haven't purchased it yet because I wanted to
hear from you guys what we're suggesting is a design that's similar to this um this is what I've kind of uh if you go back real quickly I'm sorry just yeah that's the design that I've mocked up on the Palmer shed sales site that I have a tenative um estimate for um I'm sugges T
ing the um peor color with a peer metal roof um it's going to have two doors um looking like that and then now you can if you want to scroll down I tried to find some real ride real world images the gray one that's there is the color that I've chosen um again that's open
for negotiation it's not a great picture I apologize um the one below is a better picture but a different color and that has Windows I couldn't find the exact uh real world looking of what we're looking to order um we are not proposing to have
Windows just because for security sake um just to minimize entrance you know potential ways for people to get into the shed um but we if if the board feels windows are important that we're open to that as well okay um it's going to be we've worked with had some preliminary
discussions with the building inspector it'll be placed on a gravel pad and there'll be a gravel path uh connecting the shed to the parking lot for accessibility purposes um but it's going to be right off of the fence there um tucked a little bit to the side so it
shouldn't be visually too visible from the street um kind of just tucked enough into that little corner there that it shouldn't be too obvious um I have I'll be happy to answer any questions you guys might
have yeah I noticed in your package you a couple of the diagrams kind of showed the the path that led from the parking to the shed and I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about
that um and in like why that why that route is chosen and and do we have to pass over a a drainage Swale or dip yeah so um that path I chose because that was the closest path to the closest gate um
from the parking lot um that you do have to cross this sale that the town Department of Public Works just put in um I do need to talk with Amy at the Department of Public Works to figure that portion out we're proposing to make
the path at least to that sale um and then find out how they intend I don't want to mess with the drainage um so I want to work with them to make sure we do it properly um and then determine how to best get over that Swale um and then
uh and then connect it to the parking lot to this the smooth stable surface of the parking lot yeah I was trying to do some research Lindsay I wonder if you know if the a shed like this you mentioned the
word accessibility right so that makes me think that it needs to be Ada accessible and it would become the town's issue if they've put in a Swale to make sure that you know say a a guest or player in a wheelchair could get to the field and
also to the shed um but that seems uh like a an important an important issue yeah I I I that's why I want to work with the town on that um because they feel that's not entirely in my purview to fix the accessibility to the
entire site right um but just to the shed is what I'm proposing okay you should definitely double check but my understanding is that it's only required for public spaces so if it's only people who are
working through your organization um it's possible that it's not required um that so the building inspector is the one who has told us that it needs to be accessible okay because it's on public on public
property yeah and so we have made sure that the doors are wide enough we'll make sure that it's level and accessible okay um all right any other comments or or questions for M
rhs I'll just continue a couple um is there lighting and was there a need for lighting there's no Lighting on the field and there's no need for lighting Ken um so is is this so this is a kind
of a prefab shed that sort of meets the requirements of what you're looking for and I assume there were there were I don't know how many others there are to choose from um I mean it's it's it's very
utilitarian looking there's kind of don't it's not beautiful but maybe it doesn't have to be I think the simpler the better um so if this meets your needs I
I wouldn't go against it but I I have a little shed in on a house which is really simple and um did did you look at others is this one that you find attractive and and like and
best um so I we're a nonprofit organization so working with a very tight budget is partly it um I would love to have a more elaborate design um I'm trying to balance both Aesthetics and our organization's budget
um I'm so I did add that second door to provide a little bit of relief so there be less blank sides to the facades um I was hoping that would help a little bit and balance that so we wouldn't have such blank sides I'm open to having Windows to provide a little features to
the to the shed um I do also want to balance the security since this will be kind of alone there will be no lighting um it's going to be a locked facility I don't want you know to tempt people from trying to break in not that there's anything valuable in there you know gold
get Nets but um I just that is something I also want to balance yeah I respect that I I have to say just to build on Karen's comment I when I saw it I had very similar very similar notes for myself and I wondered
if if we can't it more beautiful then perhaps we could make it disappear and by virtue of like not having a contrasting color trim right if the the body and the trim were the same color either the peor or the
white for example um that it might just call less attention to itself sure that's that's fine and I I picked the P just to think I was hoping it' be like a nondescript blend in kind of but I'm open to anything else yeah I
did I went on the palmered website and saw that they had a couple of examples of like a gray on Gray lofted Barn 10 by 16 and it it just just a little bit less uh attention grabbing okay I also I think I agree
with you about the windows it just seems like you don't want to tempt fate with any curiosity about what's going on in there is can I ask a question is the Gamel roof form to
provide more space in the Loft yeah that's what I was hoping for rather than a larger footprint we just go up a little bit higher and I have another question is there another structure on the opposite end of the field there are no structures
on the site at all just maybe porta potties is what I'm thinking of yeah there's a porta usually during the season on the parking lot tucked into the trees on the opposite side had any comments or thoughts from
you I am agreeing with everything that's being said I I thought is just a very utilitarian structure yeah and so you know possibly having it be gray on Gray
would make it blend in even more um but I don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other given given the purpose and given um that it will be the only structure there if there was more than one structure then we'd be
interested in having coordinating them but but this seemingly will be the only structure um so you know those are my comments okay okay thank you and Karen I saw your hand up again did you want to
add um no I wanted I I think that's brilliant I think that if the contrast isn't there it already helps because it makes it more just very simple utilitarian and not trying to be something like a fake little barn with
trim which is what this looks like to me uh and then it would be just a shed and I agree don't put Windows in it it's just a security is just helping and um I so yes good idea try to not have the
trim and have it be just as simple as possible so it's just a utilitarian uh thing that's going to serve its purpose great thank you are we ready for
a motion I have one last thought okay um I I think everything that's been said makes sense to me and I agree with it I guess my only so my only other question around the roof form um because I see it sort of
similarly to the trim and that it's like um it is functional but it also has sort of an ornamental quality or like a trying to be something that's more stylized um and so I'm wondering if the
shed manufacturers offer a shed roof style like it's kind of like a DOR but it's a just a simple um sloped roof that pops up um that gives a little more vertical
height and if it if it does offer that um you know I don't know if it would be more expensive or not I do think they're more attractive personally but that's also a judgment call and like it's just it's more kind of like simple
form um that's a great idea can you CL so more of a peak roof yeah it's like a gable roof so it's a peaked roof but it has a popup on one side so it's it's like a
lifted sloped Edge it's called a shed Dormer sh and um I don't know if this manufacturer or if this type of manufacturer offers that but I feel like I've seen them before
um it just might be worth taking a look at as an alternative if it is offered or kind of simplifying the stylistic design of it otherwise you know if it doesn't have
it I understand the functional purpose and I'm fine with it I'm just just a thought I think that's a nice idea and you know if if if they if if you could explore that as an option Megan and if
it's if it's available and If it serves your storage needs and it's the right price to you know choose that different kind of simpler roof line um
yeah okay um so I'm yeah sure I I'm happy to explore I'm looking at the website right now and it looks like it's either just the typical um peaked roof or the what you're seeing now um but I can um potentially look at other
manufacturers if it's a strong sentiment I think it would just be a suggestion it's not a Direction all right Karen did you want to weigh in um yeah maybe if you had a very simple
roof line that was up on one side so you would have the height and down it might even be more economical I feel that this is just a a utilitarian thing that is trying hard to make itself look sort of
fashionable and that's not what you need you need just a very simple shed so I agree if you can find one which is simpler it'll probably be much more attractive in a way and disappear more if it's if it's the cost that you're you
know if it's not more expensive yeah and um and serves your purpose you definitely need this to be practical to fit your needs and I don't think we should give you a hard time about that but just our sentiments are that this simpler probably the more attractive
it's going to be on the site so would it be possible to share my screen I I have um yeah one I just quickly found on the website if this is seems simpler with
just the one side um let's see so this is also available it's 10 by 16 so the same size but it's just on the one it's just the one simple roof line and I've tried to match the colors of the trim I'm not sure why the corner
trims are different but the the door trims are the same as the uh wall trims if that's an idea if that's preferable by the board personally sorry Lindsay I didn't hear you I was just going to say from a style
standpoint I think I'm in favor of of that option but I think the next question is more important which is the functionality of it yeah um and paty her hand has has been up I'm sorry that I didn't acknowledge you earlier not not
not a problem and and I think um you um Megan for finding this and sharing it with us I personally would go agree to either plan either design my question is which offers the most storage space for
you and is it cost efficient yeah I haven't gone through so it looks like the price is about the same around $6,000 um I I'd have to think about in terms of
which is more efficient I my inkling is that the Gamel roof might be more efficient because I can hang things a little bit easier rather than just having it right by the door um but I I may need to mull over that okay the the one of one of my thoughts
is um pot wine is a mixed street with some some rural land some still some farming land and and barns and so your first design actually in my opinion fits more with
the um streetcap of of hot water than this one would just just again as Lindsay said it's my it's an opinion well it sounds as though the members of the board are open
to either a Gambrell or the shed roof line and acknowledge Megan that it needs to serve your budget and your functional needs for storage like
that's that is very important um and uh so I think in terms of kind of summarizing this discussion um that we would encourage you to explore the shed roof
line and if it serves you then um to to consider that option to go with that option consider or go with where do we want to be on this I think it's fine to ask you to um to make that
choice um and then uh to to to have the peor color on the body and the trim and then want to just um kind of reiterate the advisement to coordinate
with the town regarding accessibility to the site um or encourage the town to make sure that your building is accessible if you're going to choose that location that seems important some want to make a motion to approve
with those recommendations I move to approve with those recommendations there are second I second all those in favor please let us know by saying I Pat says I Pat says I
so is everyone else all right thanks me for walking us through that appreciate it great and I will say as somebody who is part of the the schlepping of the gear for many years this is a great move it'll also reduce traffic to our neighborhood Erica because there's a lot
of cars com to my house that's right all right well thank you thank you everyone have a good night you too okay nobody public comment nobody's showing up okay no
good so then we can move on to meeting minutes and it has been a minute since we've met um hold them up one second yeah you provided a revised minutes from
November do we need to re-approve those or was that just for information only um I don't think we approved the November minutes okay right we did hold off okay let's take a look at those and then there's the draft minutes from last our
last meeting in December is there anybody who would like the a a slow scroll through this I know that I don't know if you want me to summarize as I scroll or just everybody's good with just the scroll yeah I i' I've read
them they look good to me so if anybody else wants that to let speak up okay that's that for November anybody need to see a part of that in more detail or more time
I move to approve the minutes of November 18 18th 2024 I second thank you all in favor say I I that's everybody anyone
poos okay okay thank you these are the December minutes that's it anybody need to see anything more closely okay a motion I make a motion to accept the
minutes as presented of the December 16th 16th 2024 meeting second thank you all in favor say I I I
thank you any posed exensions okay that's everyone um other business the only thing on my mind is whether just until you have an update on the status or
the where our updated standards might be living at the moment I think they're still living with Dodson and Flink so I don't think they've made it before the planning board or anything like that yet mhm so that's where they've been for a
while okay yeah and Dodson and flinker schedule at this point is they're still working on it on the design standards I think they're working mostly with other staff to hir those out so once I hear
anything that's new I will definitely let you know and I can always ask as well yeah I do I would appreciate an ask I'm curious about whether those design standards are going to come back to this committee before um and whether we'd be a part of
that discussion before things are made it you know make a proposal to the planning board the planning board um it'd be nice to be a part of that conversation okay I will let them know
would you like them to present maybe like to come to the drb meeting and present I think that would be nice but I also don't want to presume that that's the process I know that the process has been laid out and there's a contract in
place so I'm mindful of that um but if that's within the scope um yeah I was at the last meeting and asked the stakeholders whether they thought that it was time yet for them to
uh formulate something and the consensus was that no there had to be more consensus first so there's going to be at least one meeting where they're going to try to attain that consensus and I think then uh and I think they're very busy
I'm not sure if it's purpose is a good idea for to have them come to present to our group and I am a part of that so I can kind of keep you informed somewhat we are leison thank
you okay okay I did have a question um so going back to the exchange um we had a similar situation with the Buttercup Bakery where we continued like we asked them to come back but we still voted anyway so I
was sort of thinking maybe we just take the vote just to keep it simp like consistent or just leave it because it's we've already decided they're just going to come back anyway and we'll vote then in this case our vote would be to
not approve yeah following recommendations but in butterup we didn't really do that what we did was something similar where we gave recommendations but we still asked them to come back so that's why I was sort of like well we're asking them to come back we don't want to vote and then yeah you
know what I mean so I wasn't sure um protocol wise what you've done in the past I like both ways okay I mean to if we were doing it really formally I think the appropriate thing would be that we would have we voted voted not to approve
and provided our recommendations and then said come back for approval right okay um I'm still learning sorry I just want to make sure no I think it's a great question and we meet so infrequently that I
often forget the the president if you will okay so maybe in the future we would vote not to approve and then we would just say you you know please take our recommendations under advisement and we would like you
to come back to the next meeting okay that seems like a Sound Decision okay yeah all right thank you for clearing that up for me yeah and thank you for raising that with us are there any other other
business no okay well then with that in mind here at 558 or 358 or 258 depending on what part of the country you're in
we can adour thanks all thank you and April 14th right I believe April 14th is what everyone said great thank you appreciation ciao