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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=b9YRDyJg5n4

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Okay, good evening everybody. Welcome to the Ammeris Design Review Board meeting of July 20th, 2026. My name is Erica Zikas and as the chair of the Ammeris Design Review Board, I'm calling the meeting to order at 4:31 p.m. The

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meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the Town of Ammeris YouTube channel and minutes are being taken. This meeting will be conducted via remote means pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extended through June 30th, 2027 and the ability of

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public bodies to meet in a fully remote or hybrid manner. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort is being made to ensure that the public can adequately access access the proceedings

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in real time via technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing is posted on the town town's online calendar. Board members, I will now take roll call. When I call your name, please let me know that you're here. Uh Lindsay Schnar >> here.

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>> Karen Winter >> here. Pat O. I don't see Pat. Uh and Karen Blum also not able to attend tonight. And Ericos present. Board members, if technical issues arise, we may need to pause

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temporarily to fix the problem and then continue the meeting. If the discussion needs to pause, it will be noted in the minutes. Please use the raised hand function to ask a question or make a comment, and I'll see your request and call on you to speak. After speaking, please remember to remute yourself. The

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general public comment item is reserved for public comment regarding regarding items that are on and not on tonight's agenda. Please be aware that the board will not respond to comments during general public comment period. Comment can also be heard at other times during

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the meeting when determined appropriate. Please indicate that you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited. If you've joined the Zoom meeting using your phone, please indicate that you wish to make a comment by pressing star9. When called on, please identify

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yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when you're finished speaking. Residents can express their views for up to 3 minutes or at the discuss discretion of the chair. If a speaker does not comply with the guidelines or exceeds their

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allotted time, their participation may be discontinued from the meeting. Uh at tonight's meeting, the DRB will conduct the following business. will have our general public comment period and have um two applicants on our uh public

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agenda tonight. That's DRB FY2026 um uh 7. Uh that's 220 North Pleasant Street. Um, the applicant is presenting signage for a new business and DRB 2025

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uh 20 sorry 202615 uh 231 Triangle Street um Ammerst Market installing new propane tanks. Um we'll have a continuation of the discussion of the downtown design standards and in particular uh discussion regarding uh

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the memo from Dodson and Flinker and then um other business and I have two things to add here. Um, I'd like to have a initial or kind of ongoing uh update to reappoints and recruitment for the

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design review board. Um, and then also want to discuss a shift of the schedule starting in September if that's all right. If there's anything else to add to that extended agenda, let me know. Um,

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and if not, then we'll shift into public comment. And if there are any members of the public who'd like to um make a comment this evening, please let us know by raising your hand. >> I don't see anybody uh in the attendee list raising their hand. >> Okay, great. And I should also say um

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for the record, thank you to um Jeff Bag, our planning director, and Steve McCarthy for supporting us in the meeting tonight. Um, okay. So, then why don't we uh start off with um Stacy Ashton or anyone

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representing 220 North Pleasant Street. >> Stacy, >> hi. I'm sorry. I just don't know if you can like hear me or see me or what's happening. >> We can hear you just fine. We're not seeing your video, but that that's okay with us if it's all right with you. Um

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otherwise, turn your camera on. Um, and Stacy, how we usually do this is we um ask the applicant to describe what you're up to um for the benefit of the board and then we have a brief uh discussion, maybe answer some questions

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if uh we have any. Um and you submitted some images. Do you have the ability to share those on your screen or would you like us to do that for you? Um, I think I sent the recent image to Jeffrey, so he has it. So, I'm happy to let him take

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the reigns on that if you'd like to. >> Okay. And and Jeff, I have it pulled up. If you want me to do it, I can. >> Um, yeah, sure. If you want to do that, what I have queued up, if it's necessary, is the existing conditions. There's a photo of the the the previous storefront with the sign. So, I have

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that ready if you can share the duties. >> Okay. And and Stephen, I just um did a request to be able to share if you could. >> Yes. Just granted that. >> Great. >> Okay. Stacey, does this look familiar? >> Yes. Excellent. Okay,

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>> that was it. >> So, um we see that you're um proposing to install new signage um on the window and then a hanging sign uh at the front of the porch. Do would you just walk us through what your intentions are? >> Thanks. So, um the the sign that is

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hanging, it looks it's 72 in across is a it's a hanging sign. It's not a fix. It's just attached to um a couple of I guess hanging screws. Um and that will

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be a PVC sign carved to look like wood. >> So, it'll give it sort of a nice appealing highass but older looking look to it. >> Um, so that will be the actual sign. And

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then you see the window, um, which is not blue. That's just for background so you could see the way that it would be, um, the lettering would look. It's a clear window that you can see through. The letters are transparent. It's just something up there that has the website

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with the QR code and a couple of, you know, little blurbs saying that we do residential and commercial sales with the logo as well. Um, when I took over the space, this is the signage that was in the existing space and I just sort of

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mimicked that back with what I would put in its space. Um, we are a real estate firm. Um, I was previously in a Main Street um, listing with with Pat Gillan's property. Um and we were

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offered this space um by the Shumways and decided to you know transfer the spaces with for the visibility purposes and the traffic purposes and basically what we were looking for with the firm. I just hadn't found something that I

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really liked or fit the bill. So um we jumped on this. We renovated the space. Um, we made it look beautiful and we're excited to open the doors and this is basically I think the last piece so I can tell my sign guy to hop on it so we

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can get up and running. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And just to I'm just clarifying again just because the the the the image looks like the the window is a similar color blue to the sign, but you're saying the window is just

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>> the glazing as it is and your your lettering is going to be a white letter on that clear window. >> Yep. It's just white. It's almost transparent. Um that's the way it sort of was before. And I think at the bottom of the proposal, it says that the blue

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background is just there for, you know, for visibility, so you can see what's written on there. Got it. Okay. Well, I'll open the floor to um the other members of the DRB for any clarifying questions or comments.

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>> Hi, this is Lindsay. >> Go ahead, Lindsay. Um, I just have a question about the um, sorry for the background. I trying to move away from it. Um, the signage depth. Um, it just look it looks a little deep

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from here and I'm I'm only concerned about kind of like head height underneath it. So, when you're standing on the porch, um, where would you say that the bottom of the sign um, ends with respect to the door? Do you think it ends below or above?

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So, I'm about 56 and a half. It's probably about three feet taller than me. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's just the perception. >> Yeah. It's not low. It's not low. It's It's actually pretty high up there. Um the porch is pretty tall. So, I think he

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just like made that so you can kind of see the height dimension wise, not necessarily scaled it to what the building >> I don't Yeah. So >> it's higher. >> Okay. So with that, what do you think

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that the 72 inches that it's showing in width is um offset the amount that it's that it appears to be offset from the posts on either side. >> Yeah, it's a six foot wide sign about.

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So those posts are about six feet wide in general apart. >> Okay. So there's like a small offset as shown. >> Yeah. And this isn't it's not even hanging above the door. The porch is is um you know five or six feet away from

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the door. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. And then my other question is um how it's mounted. And I apologize if I missed that. There's a couple key holes that are hanging from the top and it's it's uh

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anchored in with some pro I don't I would guess it's sort of like a clasp type of hanging anchor that was it was up there previously, but I would presume that mine will be a closed anchor so it doesn't you know wiggle around there or

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anything. But they're like eyelets. It's screwed in with a circle and then whatever um is clasped in around that to secure it. >> Okay, got it. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Karen, is there anything on your mind?

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>> Um I like it. I you know I like the fact that the lettering is on a clear window. When I first looked at it, I thought it was a sign and I thought that was kind of vague and intrusive and >> yeah, >> so thanks for clarifying that. So I

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think it's elegant. I like it. I agree that it's in keeping with the old building. So yeah, >> thank you. I pride myself on making things look nice, you know. So, they're repainting the front porch for us and we've repainted the door and done a good

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remodel and we're going to have the letters are going to be like in silver so it'll be, you know, look really nice on the sign. >> Yeah, I'm a fan of the the complimentary color to the kind of neutral of the of

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the building. You're using this blue and silver. I think that that's a nice >> Thank you. It's are our company colors. It's we're keeping with the theme. So, >> great. >> Worked hard on that. >> Good. Well, I suppose the only thing that I worry about uh is whether the

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sign I think dimensionally it's good. I like the the overall look and approach. I just worry that the sign might swing. I the existing sign is mounted in the same way. Does it >> swing around in a breeze or is it just heavy enough? >> Nope. It's heavy enough and it

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definitely doesn't swing. Like I said, the eyelets are there and then they have um special um I don't know what they're called, but they're like clasps that clip in so it won't fall and it won't, you know, it will be secure.

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>> All right. Uh Lindsay, I see your your hand and then we'll jump to Jeff. >> Sure. Um, I also just wanted to comment aesthetically I think it looks really nice and clean and my only um kind of design

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critique is that I I feel that the um the website is perhaps unnecessary and and just add some kind of like visual clutter at the bottom of the sign on the window. Um, I think that if it was

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something really if your website was something really different from your company name, I could see potentially doing that, but I think a simple Google search of your company name would pull up the website. So, I would I would probably recommend taking it down. And

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I'm curious to hear if you have strong, you know, reasons for having it there. And I'd also be curious to hear other people's thoughts on it. Thank you. Well, well, the reason why we did that is because our website has the MA at the

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bottom and that's a QR code on the side and we didn't want to put a phone number in the window. So it was just kind of like new age way of the way people search things so they know they're getting the proper realy group that they're looking for because there are other Ashton realy groups in other

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states and places that might come up if they don't do the proper Google search and or are not techsavvy. So that's why that came into play there. I see. I wonder if just having the QR code would be sufficient to avoid having

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that much lettering at the bottom and if that, you know, is do other people see that as being potentially visually beneficial or not? >> Well, the QR code was there just as a scan so people know what the QR code is

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actually scanning. that was sort of like an afterthought. >> I don't have an issue with the third line of text which is basically the the the web address. I am looking at it

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now and wondering if it could be the same font size as we could the line above it. residential and commercial sales and then at least it kind of comes down a bit. But I'll I'll pause. I promise to go to Jeff next although Jeff you took your hand down. Um and then

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we'll jump to Karen. Karen >> Jeff do you want to talk? >> Oh I thought she was referring deferring you. Yeah. Let me just for make sure it's worth showing the existing conditions. Uh, uh, Stacy had submitted this and it

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didn't make it into the packet, but I did want to just show kind of the home sign is what you guys were talking about. That's that's probably the similar size of 2 feet. >> Mhm. >> And it's just once you see it and in real real space, you can see that it fits up there pretty nicely. And then the window decal,

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um, you know, has a lot of extra stuff plus the website, too. So, um, just wanted to put up there for some context. Thanks. >> So I Lindsay, what you said makes sense to me because it is kind of like a a

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paragraph of lettering that you see on the window and it might really improve it to have the um the website a little bit removed or a little bit smaller so that it doesn't look like it's just a paragraph of letter.

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that I think aesthetically that might I might like that better. >> We can move it lower down the window also so it's not in the way of the window itself so it's at the bottom >> and maybe a different font size or

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>> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, I mean it does it looks perhaps Karen I wonder what you think of this. It looks as though like the text of residential and well maybe I'll I'll reshare so that we can all be looking together. It looks like the text of residential

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and commercial sales is a little bit larger than the the web address. And I can see just because you have to add the MA on the end like having having your your web your full web address there

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might be important for a kind of a a quick way for people to get to you without those extra clicks. >> Yes. >> Um so I can >> I can move it down like a few inches, you know, so it's more towards the bottom. >> Let's have it float a few inches above the the window frame.

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>> Yep, we can do that. >> And then reduce the font size. Um does that satisfy your concerns, Lindsay, and your concerns, Karen? Yeah, I think I would like that better. >> Yeah, I think it was actually really

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helpful seeing the image of the home >> uh window signage u because I think it's I think it's a good guide for how to um give hierarchy to the to the fonts

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and allow that web I actually didn't even see the web address there at first. So, um, yeah, it's like shifting it down, making the font just really minimal. Um, and perhaps, you know, I

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would say definitely bringing it, um, into a smaller size than the commercial and residential sales line, too. >> Um, and yeah, I think that would that would make a big difference. And then I would say if that line goes down, I'm

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getting in the weeds, but if that line of the web web address goes down and gets smaller, I would I would also encourage centering the rest of the signage. Yeah. The rest in the space. >> Yep. Yeah, we'll definitely do that. Yep. >> Okay. Thanks,

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>> Lindsay. Would you be willing to make a motion to approve with recommendations? >> Sure. Um, I move to approve the signage for Ashton Realy Group um with the recommendation to

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um reduce the font size and lower the web address on line three and center the graphic um and text on the window above the web address.

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>> Sure. Is there a second? Karen, >> I second. >> Thank you. All in favor and say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you. That's everyone. Stacy, thanks for uh taking the time to walk us through and answer our

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questions. We are excited to see this go forward. >> Great. Thank you so much. Um just a curious question. Um, do I just give my signed guy the go and tell him like the changes or do I need a piece of documentation from you guys or how does

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that work? >> Yeah, it's actually goes from us uh to the in this case building department. >> Okay. Right, Jeff? Um, and so you'll get something um

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>> I think we can work on the official paperwork. I think you should give the sign person a go-ahad >> to cuz you said it was going to take two weeks to to generate the actual signs and in that time >> we produce our paperwork. You get the building permit before you put it up technically is what you would need is

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the building permit but we can work together on that. I I just want to thank Stacy for her patience. She got stuck a little bit in the portal or open gov and with a staff transition. So, um, she's been patiently waiting since late May or

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June to get to to you guys. So, this is really critical and and helpful. Um, I would I would encourage you to have the sign guys start and then we'll follow up with the paperwork and get the building permit before you put up the sign. >> Okay, great. I thanks for that. Yeah, it's been a long ride, but we're getting there.

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>> So, Stacy, um, in open gov, you can see you have a building permit in and it's gone through the first couple steps of review. it's being held in the building inspector's review just to go through DRB. So, we will um get them those recommendations as soon as we can. Um and then um you know that has kind of

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sequential steps. So, the permit fee will be next and then there's just one last administrative sign off uh step and then you'll be good to go with the permit issued. Um but the building department may want the final sign plan. So, u maybe you could have your um your signed contractor send that in. We can

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move that along. >> Okay. Um just on the gov. Yep. You can just upload it to open Gov and just make sure you send us a message so we see it's there. >> Okay. All right. Thanks so much. Have a lovely evening. >> Okay. Thank you so much.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. And now we can uh move forward to the Amoris market proposal. Can this is Carlo. Hi. >> Welcome Carlos. We're glad you're here. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is Carlosto from the

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virtual design group and I don't know. Can you see me? >> No. >> So, how do I turn on my camera? Because I I I do have a camera here, but >> uh >> that's a good question. Um, so for me, if I float my mouse over the bottom of

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my screen, a little menu pops up and I can see a over on the left hand side a little video icon. >> It's It's so funny because I've used Zoom for years at this point and I use it out of my iPad. It's the easiest way and and and the reality is that I've never had this issue where I see the

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menu on the bottom. I can just see the raise hand and whatnot. I I can do >> if I um if I may interject uh Mr. Neato, that's because you're in as a attendee allowed to talk and not a panelist. Um, >> okay. >> And if the the board so requests, we can change that.

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>> I would love to we would love to talk with them if they would like if anybody would like to be visible. We are happy to have them be visible as panelists. That's totally >> Okay, now I got it. >> Invite them. I do see uh >> yeah,

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>> couple versions of you. This looks more like my normal Zoom. Okay, now I can press uh video and now you can see me. Perfect. >> Welcome >> in real life, not not just a voice. >> There we go.

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>> Um yeah, so my name is Carlos Nato. I'm a landscape architect and one of the principals of Berkshire Design Group. Um, and I've been working uh with the owners at the Mark Ammerst Market in the process of uh kind of getting permits together for uh the installation of

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propane tanks um that are going to be used for um establishing a kitchen inside the the building. Um we've already gone through the fire department review and um the uh administrative site

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plan review uh which both have been well the site plan review really was the one who was approved the fire department gave positive comments that we could do the project um and the uh planning department just let let us know that we

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should also uh submit to to your board and that's why we're here and right now. And I just and I I have another Carlos NTO probably that's signed in. Um yeah,

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stay muted and that I can share my screen if I get uh the opportunity to share the screen with that account if that's okay. If not, I would need somebody to share it for me. Yeah, we're happy to have you um share your screen

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and and walk us through the proposal. >> So the um I don't see the share button, so it might be because Oh, there we go. Join us panelists. We got it. Appreciate it. Awesome. Now we can share the screen and

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I want to share screen one. And this is the same the same plans that I that we had submitted. Um it's um you know we included all the plans that we had used for the actual application uh for site plan review. Um I can go over

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those um quickly um well actually before we go just to give you some context. Um I think the last page is better for that. Um so the white building that you see here where my cursor is that's uh the building that uh houses the Ammerst market. Ammerst

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market is right at the corner. Um Triangle Street. So your place this is the the traffic circle. Um and then uh this uh area right here is the area we're proposing to locate the gas tanks. Um those are adjoining inside the

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building. That's where the kitchen would go. So that's why they're there just to have the most convenient connection. Um, so now if I a and what the project uh so right now there's a series of shrubs

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along that edge of the of the building. Um, we created some uh kind of before and afters uh renderings on the bottom so you could see what we were proposing. And the project will uh require the removal of two of the existing shrubs

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that are right now um on that side. And then the four tanks would be kind of installed in that area. Um and you can see before and after images here. Um the front of those tanks there will be uh

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these concrete barriers um that are going to be there to protect the tanks. Um and we've understanding that there was already plantings here. Um and we were proposing to and we've seen other

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examples of this to kind of uh improve a little bit of the look of those um type of concrete barriers. So we were proposing putting some planters on top of them and then having some plants uh kind of being planted there seasonally. And also the actual barriers will be

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painted to a color that's going to be, you know, dark green. So, kind of to melt a little bit with better with the existing landscaping. Um, we did look into adding shrubs or doing other types of improvements right in front, but the area is is fairly tight. It's a it's a

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narrow kind of planting strip. So, there really isn't any feasible, you know, area to actually have some um shrubs right in front of those tanks. Um and then uh just for uh reference the the way that uh we've we have three of these

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barriers there. Um because there needs to be some ventilation or air around these tanks. Um they don't want they they uh the code basically doesn't allow you to enclose them completely. Um so there has to be some amount of area where um if there's a gas leak or

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anything like that that the gas can actually escape into you know just go out and not concentrate which that would be then the could cause some you know fire or safety issues. Um and the maintenance of these tanks these tanks are installed they're not permanent in

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the sense that they're not uh you know connected to the ground in any way. They're put on top of these uh kind of um large concrete pavers. Um but they won't move from there. It's not like they're a truck is going to come in and try to

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roll these tanks around. The way that these get um refilled is a truck comes by with an extendable hose. It's a big ga, you know, gas uh tank crook with a long extendable holes that can go up to 100 150 ft. And then they then fill the

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tanks uh from a distance. So they could do it either from the parking area here or they could even be um on the back of the they could even set up uh on the back area here, which is kind of the loading

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area for the um for the building. and they could bring those hoses all the way here and they could fill the the tanks. Um I mean in essence that's that is the project. Um

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and um I it's very common for any of the other restaurants or other places in town that to have these types of tanks. So it's not a a new thing that we are adding here. It's just something that's uh being done in other other places in the in the town. Yeah, definitely not

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the first propane tank enclosure exactly >> that we've that we've had the opportunity to review. Um, so thanks for walking us through it. Um, I think my primary concern I mean I know there's a safety issue. Um, but I think my primary

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concern is more of an aesthetic one and I'm wondering if we could invite Ammerst Market to consider a simple 4 foot 6 in tall

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fence and some ballards behind that fence or to just to disguise the the the tanks or hide the tanks. My concern is that the plantings will

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need maintenance and that they're really only going to be, you know, interesting that the flowers are only going to add visual interest, you know, for a few months a year. >> So, and you know, one aspect is that that

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that area, like I said, it is a very limited area. So having uh footings um and adding two sets of footings for instance for fencing and for ballards um they start to basically interrupt with each other. So it is it is that narrow where you couldn't really have

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two sets of footings right across from each other and then you have a sidewalk right there. So we can't impede on the area of the sidewalk. The sidewalk is there's an ement uh for the sidewalk so that it uh allows for free travel, you know, for all the parcels. and this kind

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of it's a large uh parcel with many other uh businesses there and they share parts of the parking and the sidewalk. So, so that is um the reason why um having both fencing and ballards would

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would be difficult to have both of those there and also have keeping the space between the actual building and then the uh the tanks that we we want to have. Um and I I understand that the aesthetic

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concern and one of the again the concrete um uh structures that we are that are proposed those those are um

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they're the the ones that have are used for these type of tanks. actually they're they're provided also by the gas company. Um and they're more than uh we wouldn't need ballards. Ballards tend to be much more expensive for installation

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and that was one of the um uh requests that we asked and we talked with the fire department which then they allowed us not to have ballards uh that because of the traffic situation here we wouldn't need them um because there's really no no uh high speed traffic close

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to this. I mean there's a parking but there it's kind of a dead end parking. >> So we that's why we've stayed away from ballards and we tried to kind of use these um these uh structures. Um

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and the other you know again on the side of the code we don't need there's other aspects like they might require us fencing in in terms of safety. Um, but in this case, because again there's no real traffic in here, we we don't need

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to provide those. So that's why we we've stayed away from fencing and ballers. >> Can I clarify before I move on to um open it up to other members of the DRB? Is the the kind of mini jersey barrier then not for protection? That's only a visual screen.

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>> It's it's it's minor protection. So, it's it's not the same type of and we're going to get I can get a little bit on the weeds, but there's uh when you there's many levels of protections that are allowed by the fire code. Um there

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are some specifics uh ones that are for what's called uh traffic protection um which are you know ballards uh jersey barriers that are of a certain size and and and weight and that they're anchored. Um here they are here just for

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um you know if somebody's uh uh shoveling snow they're not going to hit the tanks. If even if a vehicle were to you know they have the wheel stops which provides most of the stoppage but if a vehicle still kept moving forward

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then these would kind of be a barrier between the two but not a high speed. >> Sure. So they're not considered like again high speed or traffic uh uh measures of of protection. So because we don't need to um the between the uh um

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wheel stops um that that is sufficient within the code for this type of application where you don't have uh again high speed. It's a dead end parking space. >> Um and then from the street is very there's many different barriers between you can get a car from the street to

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actually uh come in contact with the tanks. Yeah. All right. Uh Lindsay or Karen, any thoughts or clarifying questions? Yep. I'm okay. Go ahead, Karen. Yeah. So, so are you saying that putting

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up a trellis is not possible? Because a trellis, just a small trellis that you could paint and you know, maybe a vine could go over, that's not possible. We we would need to have still access for the tanks. Um

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>> couldn't you go over a trellis? It doesn't have to be that high. Just enough sufficient to cover the tanks. So, I understand uh if we were to normally the way that

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these get filled in, that's why there's like that space between those barriers is that they they would kind of be able to access them closer so that they can actually get to the valves, make sure that everything's working right, and then they will connect the hose to them. Um, and on either side there are shrubs

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that we don't want to we didn't want to affect. So, we were trying to kind of squeeze these in between the existing shrubs. So we would interrupt the least of those. Um it so that that's really why we are

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we're using these. Um okay. Um >> thanks for that. And and Lindsay, you had a thought. Yeah, I mean I I do think that I hear, you know, that this is a this is a very tricky condition and um

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this may be the the only viable economical option that provides both, you know, visual shielding and um protection at the parking lot. I I think it would be

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um I think it would be worth understanding the constraints of looking into some kind of fencing that could potentially provide that low speed protection that you're referring to. Um I don't know in

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terms of you know what kind of like fencing there may be that can interface as a as a potential ballard as well. I understand there's there's not really room for for much here. um and they do start to compete.

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But it is it is a visually um unfortunate intervention and we would you know like to see how we could explore other options um that that meet the same criteria or

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maybe it's not quite as economical or as um straightforward. But it would be nice to see what other options there are in terms of fencing and ballards that that could provide that could meet the same the same

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requirements. I'm looking at the dimensions provided that this the planting bed I think it's in the previous sheet um is identified as 6 feet wide.

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>> Mhm. >> Um and the tanks themselves are 30 in diameter. So that theoretically leaves some room almost

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3 ft assuming that the tanks are not pushed right up against to the brick wall for footings and things. And I I do think that it would be worth it not only to explore a fence just for like a consistent surface there that's going to

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be pleasant to look at in all seasons, but also something a little bit taller because the the the ballards when the when the flowers aren't blooming are clearly kind of much lower

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than the height of those tanks at 54 in. Yep. >> So, I think that, you know, that the town would benefit from having just like, you know, a single nice clean very minimal surface. And of course, the, you know, a

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fence could have a gate in it if you needed the access. You could have a an opening in the fence. That may be a possibility as well. >> And I think one of the the gas company would like us to keep this concrete

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barriers which are they own they basically own the tanks. So that's why we're we're keeping those. I I understand I completely understand where you're getting at and and but with the 6 ft we end up with about you know we need to leave about a foot or a little bit

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more from the wall 30 in which uh and then there's a 36 in basically uh pa that goes underneath this. Then we have the base of the uh actual barrier which is about 16 in. And then you know we we it starts to eat away at that space. Um

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so it is it would be a tight uh space if we the gas company wants us to keep this concrete in addition then because a trellis would be I think easy to put in there. What I think it starts to be a little difficult is to have the trellis

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and this concrete barrier um that that basically the gas company is asking us to to keep in there. Is it something I mean I think that I'm hearing from my other committee members that we're pretty much in in

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uh in unison. Is that the right word? Um and thinking that a a fence or trellis would would be a good idea. Could we ask you to explore that option and come back to the DRB um with with having explored that that

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as an option? Could I have >> I don't know that this is something that the DRB is willing to approve at the moment. >> Yep. Could you would it be would you mind if I take five uh two minutes to just talk to the owner for a second um on send them a quick text or on the

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phone so that I can get some feedback from him if if that would be okay >> if if they're available to do that. I don't think a minute's fine. Yeah, sure. >> Yeah. Let me give me one second. I imagine this. >> Um, could we Sorry. Could we just come

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to a a motion before >> it seems like we haven't quite finished um making a recommendation. >> I feel like Yeah, I mean I do feel like if take take take the minute now to see if you can pull the the owner into the discussion if you feel that that would be helpful and then we can continue our

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conversation to kind of arrive at some consensus for a motion. This isn't I mean this is a place for us to be like making recommendations. We probably won't come to a design conclusion tonight and I don't want to promise that to anybody.

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>> And and the reason I wanted to take the time to ask because if if if we would love to be able to come to a closure tonight. Um, so if I can get some uh input from them, I can they've been looking for this permit for

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for quite a bit of time and um the site review was very very very lengthy even though it was a relatively simple uh site review. So that's why we we're trying to um Okay. So I I think I just talked to

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uh talked to the owner. Um, I think if we we could add probably uh trellis. I if if that would be that would a wood trellis with maybe two posts the uh distance between these two.

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Maybe three maybe two posts on either side. And then we can see if we can keep the the uh concrete uh behind those um that trellis. And I'm trying to trying

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to think outside of the box here. Um because we could do some um if again if it would have been if it would be okay with a board. If we could do some wooden posts that we can uh direct bury without having to do a you

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know large footing like a ballard like where we could have one here, one here and we could actually have some a trellis that would kind of come through that. Um that could definitely be a possibility if that would be okay

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with the board. That's pretty much precisely what I was what I was hoping for. >> Yeah. And >> if you need to keep those concrete barriers in place, right? Like those those remain to satisfy the the

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requirements of the code and the gas company and then we have just something that's much cleaner. No need for >> flower planters and things unless >> Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. Completely. Um I know I think we can definitely work it out. I mean, and to be honest, I'm

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going to I need to sit down with the gas company, too. And it would be nice if we didn't have to have the concrete barriers, and then I could actually have room to actually put this trellis in there. And I would love to converse that with them. They I I don't have option

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right now to talk to them because the fire department agreed that the wheel stops was sufficient uh um protection for the tanks at this point for any from vehicles. The reality is that these are there because of again protection because the propane company uh wishes to

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put those in there. Um and we have them there. >> But if um we can definitely do the trellis and if I can talk to the gas company, maybe we can even get rid of those um um concrete barriers because

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it's just going to be it will be easier to install the trellus. If not, we'll have it right in front of them. >> Okay. Um, Jeff, please. >> Just a question. Uh, the word trellis has been used, but I was wondering if if

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we're actually discussing lattice. >> Yes, that's what I was thinking. >> Yes. I just want to get a little I think if we're if the board continues this discussion and is kind of agreeable to this. I just want to clarify if we're talking lattice, >> specify a height and possibly whether it needs to be painted. I think I think we're heading in the right direction. I

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just want to make sure that it's something that we can translate out in words so that the building inspector can understand what the DRB was hoping for. >> Thank you for that guidance, Chef. Let's have that conversation now. Um Lindsay

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Ben trellis. Um yeah, I was going to say the same thing that Jeff just said is like um I think this is a this is a fortunate agreeable solution um that I do agree will uh will improve

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things but we need to understand what what that is going to be and look like. Um, and it's tricky because I mean I personally I don't I don't love the idea of just like a large panel with the

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lattice um for a number of reasons. One is um well it just can warp easily and look um worn quickly. Um,

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visually I was imagining, you know, something where you just have some like a slotted sort of like visual panel um slotted panel um that that can, you know, allow for

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and maybe we could pull up an image or maybe I can pull up an image. Um, >> I am in the I'm in the I'm trying to get you trying to see if I can find a quick image of something. Um, >> yeah, I do think that there's a there's a durability and perhaps a

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a durability issue to um lattice, the kinds of that we might see like enclosing the underside of a deck or porch. Um, some these days oftentimes it's also um they're they're PVC and so they're not paintable. And I

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think that paintable is really crucial here. um either like something that is the color is already uh baked in. Um and you we might go with a um

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uh kind of an evergreen green to match or coordinate with the the plantings that are already there. Um but I do think that paintable is really crucial. So, it probably want to be wood

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>> or or we can find probably a a lattice material that's vinyl that is in green. >> I um >> Yeah, you're spanning 10 ft. That's the other thing. So, you'll need more >> Yeah, it we would need a basically a

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post in the middle um to to to to be able to do that. >> Is there a chat feature on this? I could drop it. >> No, I don't believe so. I have a just a technique a technical question. When would you meet again if

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we needed to wait for the next hearing? >> We meet monthly on the third >> third Monday. Um, the only reason is because I I understand completely the request of the

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board and I would prefer showing you the product or something uh rather than just tell you yes, we're going to put a lattice there. Um, and um, give me and unless I can quickly find something and I don't want to keep

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everybody also just waiting for me to do Google searches. Um, >> one strategy is for us to provide some descriptive parameters and then for you to send images and we can have a vote by email. What we can't do easily is have a

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discussion by email, but we can have a vote if we need to. It's not ideal because obviously it's not in the, you know, in this in this public forum. So >> um Lindsay

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>> um so I I want to offer one recommendation and this is my my design interest. So I'll just raise it and see if you all think it's worth pursuing and if so maybe we can just close it on that. So, when you look up just a

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slatted um just a slatted fence privacy like slatted fence panel for privacy fence um you know I think that's something

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that is really straightforward and durable and clean. Um, and I could imagine um there's not a whole lot of design

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um options there. I mean, there's some there's some variation obviously, but it could be a pretty straightforward solution that we could agree upon depending on other people's thoughts. >> You have thoughts on

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do do >> Yeah. Avoid being specific about whether the slats are horizontal or vertical and just say we like a a slatted fence panel

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minimum 4t 6 in high, 10 ft wide painted evergreen. >> The metal like there those metal ones are also, >> you know, probably very durable and offer some clean shielding.

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And I realize there's a cost here, but it's, you know, we're going to do a fence. We're going to do a fence. So, >> um, it's sort of a a question of durability and aesthetics. So, um, >> yep. as an alternate to the lattice. I

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just think this would be a much more kind of like urban aesthetic that feels clean and um and provides the visual um >> yeah the visual effect we were looking

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for. >> So we can make a recommendation and and >> yeah I think we may be I think we're moving in that direction. And I just want to make sure that Karen doesn't have any final thoughts before we try to summarize our recommendation. >> Oh, Karen, you're on mute, but I see

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your thumb your okay symbol. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I like this suggestion a lot and I'm glad that you're from the design area and thought of this because that's exact that would improve it so much. >> Excellent. Okay. Yeah, we I mean I I

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think we can accommodate that. And Jeff, >> with the hope of trying to make it clearer, not harder. I was wondering if the board had us had was open to the material. >> Yes,

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>> because I I heard metal and I heard wood, but I think if we're going to be flexible, we probably don't want to specify the material that and just the color. Um painted a dark color or do you want to specify like an evergreen? And I just wanted to get clear if cuz I think I heard the height 4 feet 6 in

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approximately >> 10 ft wide >> and then like painted or of a dark color. >> Yeah, I think if it's a metal fence and you were ordering a color, I think a dark color we might recommend either,

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>> right? evergreen, brick red, or um a dark brown, I think. >> Bronze. >> Bronze. Yeah. >> I also might challenge the the height

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just um I wonder if we could go higher just because it's when you're walking by, you're going to be able to see over it if it's 4 foot six. So, I I think if possible, it would be nice if it was higher. um just so that your eye level, you know, the average eye level is not

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seeing directly over it when you're because it's a tight walkway. So I agree minimum, but I think the recommendation might be more like six. >> So the only thing that I would that if we go six feet again, the tanks

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get refilled uh every four months or so, and they need to have access to each one of those tanks at the top of the tank where the valve is. M >> so if you are if you're providing something I completely understand what you're saying it's just that if you provide something that's 6 ft then the

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person who has to actually fill these tanks will not be able to access them. >> Mhm. >> Um >> so that that would be but but I uh but 4 foot and a half I think that's enough space for somebody to you know come in and get close to them and and and be

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able to handle them. Can I ask one more in the weeds question and then I'll leave it alone. Is a a larger lower tank an option >> rather than the cylinders multiple cylinders? >> It it it isn't because of again it's

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just cost constraints. This is kind of the >> what the company the propane company is offering. Um if you were to do a larger tank they would literally have to per then purchase a a large tank. It wouldn't be a rental. It would be a permanent installation. >> Understood.

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>> Okay. >> So, the DRB recommends the installation of a fence to mask the propane tanks and concrete barriers. The fence should be a minimum of 4t 6 in

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high, taller if possible, and 10 ft long. I would like to specify the material um that it be wood or metal just so that we don't leave it open to something flimsy and

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>> well okay so you wouldn't be open to vinyl >> if it's if it's paintable or if it comes in a contiguous uh integrated color >> they come in in in in continuous color and and I know for a fact that you probably can get either a dark green or

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probably a dark brown for those. And and I just say because I want to leave it open because we I'm going to bring some examples and things to the client so he can see it and then we can cost it out and then he can figure out what which one he wants to go with.

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I'm fine with that. Not ideal, but it's a a big improvement over I think the you know just kind of seeing the seeing the tank. So, and then the the color should be a dark color. >> Y

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we we will definitely give you like you said if uh you will require us to send you a tech uh an email with the proposed and we can definitely uh find something. And the only other reason why I mentioned the vinyl is because it's it's readily available on the fancy companies

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that we have around here where if I go with aluminum or metal, it's a little bit harder for for us to just source it. I've I've used them, but they they end up being a little bit harder to source. >> Okay, I see Karen's hand. Um I want to

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say that I just I I made a proposal. I didn't call it a motion, but I I I should have. I don't want to have to repeat that all again. So, I am looking for a a second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Is there any discussion or

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clarification to the proposal? Um, >> could I just say what I wanted to say is uh I totally understand that you want to have the option of vinyl, but I think it's a strong recommendation on my part

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and I think from the other of the design review that if it's not a great inconvenience and and cost uh there is such a difference in the aesthetics and it's a long-term thing uh if you do go

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with metal or would uh for for this I would much prefer it. >> Thank you. >> I also want to just clarify the directionality of the that it's a horizontal slatted fence panel.

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>> Okay. Thank you, >> Jeff. Did you catch all that for us? >> Yeah, I think we have all that. um with the preference for vinyl, you know, I think we heard that at the end and then the horizontal. The one thing I just want to clarify and >> Oh, go ahead.

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>> Sorry. Preference not that's the preference for it to not be vinyl. I think our preference is that it's wood first, wood or metal first, vinyl if necessary. >> That is what I meant. I apologize. Um >> I just wanted to clarify. I think with this level of discussion, I think it's

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good. I think that there's pretty clear directions. I did want to discourage the idea of coming back via email because I think even >> okay >> I think even receiving it if it's not a yes if there was any deliberation or discussion of it I think we I think we

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want to avoid that. So, I think with the parameters just laid out, I think it's I think that's going to be the DRB's recommendation if you're comfortable with that. You I don't I don't think I want to encourage the email >> conversation. Um Erica, if that's okay, just cuz I >> you know, that's fine. Thank you for

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clarify I what I was inarticulately trying to say before was that yeah, we can't have discussion over email. So, it's like this is what we're doing and if there was any discussion to be had, we'd have to come back into our forum anyway. So >> yeah, I think that's I think for Carlos, I think for your direction to the

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client, I think if you for some reason can't meet this directive, then you may end up actually coming back in August. >> Yeah. >> Um but you has a lot of flexibility and I think I kudos to the DRB for kind of working this out in the on the spot and I think it does save >> the applicant like an entire month of

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kind of time. So I think the effort was worth it. >> Yeah. I have uh just I guess two questions. the I know that we're talking 4 and 1/2 ft. Um, generally because I've been while we've been talking I've been just going through some of the catalogs of things that I that I and it's

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generally it comes in 4T panels height panels or you go then over you end up in sixt panels. Um, would it be would it be would you take into consideration being at not 4 feet and a half but 4 feet?

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Again, all the panels that have been kind of quickly searching through some of the cataloges are all 48 in high, not not 40, you know, not 50 whatever, you know, the 54 in high. So,

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I I was just wondering if that would be something that we could work on. Okay, I just want to note that we still have an open motion on the floor that we should probably it's okay we should probably vote on and then we can return

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to make an amendment. So, um the motion the 4'6 by 10 ft >> I >> I Karen I Okay. And then we can we can have a discussion about amending that.

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My my position is no. I think that it should be I think that it should visually shield the the tanks. I don't think you'd want to invite um curious hands or um etc. So my feeling is that it should be taller and if need be then

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there there could be a gate in the >> Yeah. Or we might end up or or we could elevate the panel by 6 in. So there might be a little small gap under underneath this. >> That's another solution. Yeah. >> Mhm. Um because again that's it's just

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that all I found and I will try to find something that's 54 which would be 4 ft 6 in but all I've seen right now is only 48. But we'll we'll we'll try to get there somehow.

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>> Great Lindsay. >> Um I mean I I personally really don't think it should be lower than five or six feet. I I think if it's if it's going to be effective to do what we wanted to do, it probably should be six feet. And I

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and I understand, but that idea of having a gate, I mean, I know that there's cost, but that that is probably the best solution at this point. Um, you have one fixed and one movable or or

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three three foot, you know, whatever panels and one's one you can open. That seems like the best solution if if that's feasible. If um I don't know, 4 foot six even seems just like you're going to just see

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right over it. I mean I if it if it's a 4 foot or 6 foot conversation, I think it needs to be six foot >> personally. Yeah, >> we will we I mean again like I said I we will try to definitely get to the four

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six if four is not an option. So um again the just to the issue is that again we we and I understand about putting the gates um we would need to have it would need to

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be basically two gates to be able to kind of if we had the concrete I mean if we can get rid of the concrete that makes it much easier because once you have if you were to have a a you know panel um and then you have, you know, say a

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4ft gate, you know, say half of half of that or 4 foot. Um, you know, you got two other tanks that you have to kind of get to. Um, and it's that third tank. I mean, they could probably hit this one from the side.

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Um, but it would need to have like two gates to be able to work. So I I mean again I I if it if we can I think that if the board is okay with the 4' 6 in we'll I'll figure out a way to get it 4 foot 6

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in um 6T it's going to be just difficult. I would also need to and again we'll sit down and um and I'll I'll double check all this. I need to make sure that the gas company's okay with with uh with even with this fence just to make sure.

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>> Sure. No, and I appreciate that you'll kind of take it back and give every give all these considerations um the kind of real attention rather than having to do it here on the spot. I know that that's challenging for everybody. So, you'll spend some time with these

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recommendations and talk to all of the involved parties. >> Yep. due diligence and then I suppose if it if it doesn't work out then we'll be here in August. Um >> Exactly. >> and able to chat again. Um I see Karen's hand and then maybe we wind this

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conversation. >> Karen, I believe you're still on mute. >> I'm sorry. I was wondering if you have to access it whether you could do three panels, just have different footings and have three narrower panels so you can get between them if there aren't options

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like that that you >> Yeah, if 10 ft's a minimum, you could do three 4ft panels and get up to 12 with a swinging gate in the middle. >> Yeah, I again we I'm going to try to a I mean I would prefer avoiding just having

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the solid panel if we can be a 46. Um, at this point I would prefer just trying to do that rather than talk about three different gates and because if these concrete barriers need

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to stay there behind that I still need to figure out how do you go over that? Um, how how do those all this is going to work? So, I I would if it seemed like what we were going was with a solid panel that would be again 10 ft wide and

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if we can uh and 4 and 1/2 ft high, I I'm going to do my best to get that. I think that's going to work. Um the other options are going to just start adding a little bit more complication to

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to the uh kind of the design of this. But I again I I don't want to if we're okay with the what you've voted on with the 10T by 4 and 1/2 I um we'll make it work. >> I Yep. And I think that we all said I to

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that and those are minimums. So it gives you some flexibility to >> you know uh figure it figure it out within >> um y >> within those parameters. So >> great. Well, I'm glad to see this evolve. Um, and I'm thank you for your

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your patience and openness as we um sort out our recommendations. And >> I would say I'm more than happy uh to accommodate uh as much as I can and and I really do appreciate the board's flexibility on on

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kind of meeting us kind of halfway here. So, I really appreciate it. >> Great. Thank you. have a lovely evening and >> thank you very much. >> We will move on to the next item on our agenda

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which is downtown design standards and we received a memo from Dodson and Flinker and I see that Dylan Thusman and Peter Flinker are with us tonight. Um, and I hope that uh, Lindsay and Karen,

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you had the opportunity to review that. Um, Dodson and Flinker wrote a memo in response to some of the comments about the process and being inclusive of the community. Um, and uh, Peter and Dylan,

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thank you for joining us tonight. I wonder if you wanted just to uh have a moment to address the the board with some of the about your about your memo and then we could have a quick discussion. >> Thanks. I guess for me, I just want to say thanks for uh giving us an

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opportunity to come tonight and uh you saw the memo that we submitted and um I guess we don't have to read it into the record or anything, but uh we're here to answer any questions and sort of talk about

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um plans going forward for continuing the outreach, which we're still doing. >> Uh Jeff, please. And I want to thank everybody for giving Peter and Dylan the chance to come back and you know we we all listened to the last meeting and

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really something that I had reached out to to Datson and Flinker was is to make sure that everybody had access to some of the background some of the lead up to kind of you you had an initial presentation with with Datson and then this this kind of follow-up discussion and I I felt like there was some

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background information was missing and I thought that was really important for for the DRB to understand that there was uh quite a bit of outreach that had occurred and was kind of in integrated into the initial, you know, year and a half leading up to the point where we where we are at. And so, um, that's kind

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of what led to this. I wanted to make sure that everyone had access to some of that information. It wasn't it wasn't thoroughly shared at the last meeting and thought it was really important because there was a fair amount of work that had gone into it. And then just to build off that, we are we are looking at different ways to

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do some additional outreach at this point in time where we're at. And we we are getting some um ongoing feedback from um both the DEI department and our crest um department in in town. And so we have some ideas um to access some

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folks who get services at the bank center in the UU um who are people who are typically not attending public meetings. And so we do have some strategies we think we can deploy this summer to make sure that we're engaging with those folks. And and maybe Peter and and Dylan could speak to

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that a little bit just in terms of some of the strategies that we think we can do um to kind of round out some of the process and people that we are interacting with. Thanks, Jeff. Dylan, do you want to talk about that? >> Sure. Yeah. I mean, so I think what we

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heard at the last in the in the video recording of your meeting where you discussed the downtown design standards and had concerns about the process um was that the was a concern that the participants who who've been involved in the project may not represent all the

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populations of Ammerst. Um, so we were thinking that an effective way to get a more wide range of people was to literally go to the downtown um, and do set up set up

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some some posters um, possibly at the bus station at the um, St. Bridges Parish or on the opposite side of the street. possibly at um the Kendrick Park at the playgrounds

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um then possibly at the bang center um and so to see who's talk to who's there and get a a you know sort of a different kind of sample than you get if you invite people to meetings um so the advantage of that for us is as I said it's a bit more of a

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potentially more of a representative sample um and we can do it efficiently without having to do a whole lot of coordination of organizing a meeting um and inviting people and hoping they show up, hoping they take time out of their

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day um to participate as opposed to just meeting people where they're at, which is something we heard in your in your previous meeting is that we should go where the people are. So, the streets of downtown Amber seem like the place where people are. Well, I want to thank you for

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hearing the DRB and hearing Justinta in particular. Um, you know, she stepped forward with her her comments and they may not have been reflective of the entire process, but I think that they are incredibly valid and I'm glad that

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she brought them. Um, and I know that, you know, sometimes we've tried everything we know how to try and still find that it's not led to the outcomes that we intend. we have two options and one is to say okay we did our best and the other one is to keep seeking new strategies so I really appreciate that

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you are doing that now um because in this case it's clear that much has been done I really appreciated in the memo the number of different steps that you've taken already and the laying those out um for for everyone um but

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it's also true that maybe we've fallen short of our goals of being u making sure that everybody's voice has been heard in all of those different representative populations of Ammerst have been included in the process. So the good news is that it is definitely not too late and um more outreach can

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and will be done in the next phases of this project. Um so you know I think the downtown is for everybody and it's imperative that we include all of those diverse stakeholders. So, thank you for that both outlining the process and the,

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you know, continued outreach that's going to be done. >> I think that's great. Thank you. And I, you know, the the DRB also discussed kind of the core of the three volumes and made, you know, observations on all that. And so, that's being created into

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minutes in a in a memo. So, that should be done hopefully by the end of this week. um which will kind of get packaged up and that'll be sort of one of the final pieces going to the to the dots and team and then and we haven't talked about this Peter and Dylan but sometime between now and like the month of August

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we think we can get out there and do these um inerson engagements that will add to that feedback loop that we're creating now and then digesting all that we'll come back with you more information about the process next steps any refinements and changes and so that

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was always slated to happen in October, November. So, we're still on track and we still have the opportunity to incorporate whatever we're hearing um in the next, you know, 30 days or so. >> Great. Um yeah, I want to make sure that I give uh Lindsay and Karen an

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opportunity to um voice their thoughts on this as well. And I see Lindsay's hand. Um, I just want to say, you know, we really I really appreciate you coming to meet with us face to face and taking the time to address this and and writing the

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the response that you did that really thoroughly laid out the efforts that you made um that weren't information that that wasn't information that we have received yet. So it's very helpful to hear that and I think we recognize that

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you know it is really challenging to to reach you know all the populations that need to be reached and um it certainly appears that you've made a lot of effort to do so. Um I'm always amazed when there's you know

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public events happening and I and I don't know about them and that this is not at all unique to the efforts that you've made. um to have events. I I I find that it's just a challenge in general to to to stay

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um uh you know to have the radar that is needed to know what's happening. Um and um and I'm curious, you know, one and it doesn't need to be addressed right now, but if there's um you know, how you

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research what the most effective ways are to put that information out there. and I saw some of that listed. Um, personally, I find, you know, just even some of those banners downtown, you know, I know that's like often more of a celebratory

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um, announcement or events that happen in town. Um, but that, you know, that large banner that's often on Pleasant Street, um, that seems like, you know, it I'm sure it reaches a lot of people. And I'm not sure that's the right solution, but um, you know, just trying

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to really get creative about ways to put that information out there so that people um, can find it. And it's, you know, there's no obvious direct way um to do it. So, um, you know, definitely sympathize with the with the

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challenge and appreciate your effort. >> Thank you, Lindsay. >> Yeah, I agree, Lindsay. It's a busy world and there's a lot of information out there and um with the sort of the decline of local news or the fracturing of local news, I think the problem has

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just gotten more challenging, right? So there's a lot of there are a lot of information sources. There's all the social media. There your various local sort of blog slash news outlets. Um and that means that you can't just go to one

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place to give information because people are dispersed across a lot of different sources. Eric, I think you're muted. Karen. >> Um, yeah. I've been trying to think of

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how one could reach the people that are hardest to reach, and it occurs to me that maybe little brief flyers at places like Family Outreach and the community um

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services that Waying Greeny uh has downtown. that those would be places where a a little brief summary of what's happening could be laid out because those are um

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that definitely includes a population that we have always strive to reach and and have trouble reaching >> and that gives them a little bit of time. So that's just an idea that I have and otherwise I agree with everything that I've heard. It's it's I think

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you've been trying really hard and it's challenging and thank you for keeping trying. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Yeah, and I think you know we we recently um learned about the opportunity to like connect with Crest as an opportunity for public outreach

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and that seems like a really positive thing for the town of Ammerst that you have people who are um who are out in the community and they're they're making connections to um some of your most marginalized

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populations and crucially building relationships through repeated interactions. Right? So I think that's a really valuable um resource for future planning efforts um because as outside consultants it's a little bit more

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difficult for us to reach people if there aren't those existing relationships and those relationships um they contribute trust right which is um there's there's actually reaching the people physically and then

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there's having a trusted relationship so that they're willing to talk to you and share their opinions with you. >> Couldn't agree more. Well, thank you very much for um sharing all of that with us and for coming tonight and really appreciate it and I

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think that um if the DRB can be helpful in also helping to spread the word, I'm sure we'll be willing to do that. So, keep us in the loop. Great. >> All right. Thank you for having us. >> Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming.

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Thank you. >> Um, all right. That was I'm glad that we had that conversation. And, um, looking briefly to my agenda. No minutes to review. As Jeff explained,

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they're still being um, written up. Um, so I think we're on to uh, other business. Um and at this point I think the other business is really just about um

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uh recruitment efforts. I think if we could as a group continue to talk up the uh joys and delights of the DRB um so that we can help to find our own replacements. Um,

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some of us have been on the DRB for a long time and we seem to be happy to continue being here. You know, I will speak for myself and say that I am. Um, but uh, the town probably deserves to hear a diversity of voices and um, so I

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am going to be talking up the the DRB um, to colleagues and friends and see if I can't uh, rustle up some interest. Um, and I hope that the rest of us will do that as well. So, we're not here in our

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80s. Um, and uh, the other recruitment, it's not really a recruitment thing, but we should have a representative from planning board. Uh, Karen, that was that was you for a long time. Um, and I'm glad that you've continued to be here, but we should have

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a have a representative. Yeah, >> my understanding is that at the last plan board meeting, someone was voted in as the next representative. I think just the timing has been >> it's been, you know, I've been trying to do what I can to keep up with the applications that we're in and we we did

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the the downtown design standards, but I think >> there was a plan board member who was appointed as that role. So, for your next meeting, if you have one in August or if you meet in September, you'll have the replacement plan board uh rep. Um, so just apologize that it kind of took a little bit to get that person in place.

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>> And Karen, thank Karen, thanks for your past uh role there, too. That was really valuable. >> Yeah, >> Lily, go ahead. >> Um, thanks for bringing this up, Erica, and for, you know, stepping in, Jeeoff. I know this is um you know this is an

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additional service that you're providing um in your role and I have somewhat shockingly been on the design board for 10 years I believe which is a long time and and I and I very much value this

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experience and um appreciate being able to offer the service. I do agree with Erica that um it would be great to um to be able to provide opportunity for others um to be

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heard and and participate. And I I'm curious if there's conversation happening um behind the scenes, so to speak, about how to get more active interest and

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turnover. um or if it really is a matter of us finding people um and if it's happening jointly or or how the process is is

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envisioned to to happen. Well, from, you know, from what I've gathered and from what I've gathered is that it's a process that we want to create a little more thoughtfully over the next I think over the next if I hear the commitment to stay on for for a period

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of time longer, I think in the next cycle. I think we want to create a little bit better engagement on this. The the best hope is that there's the civic academy in which residents from Ammeris apply and they they go through this course. It's voluntary obviously

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and they learn about the government and they learn about the the boards and committees that exist and and we hope to this is common in other communities as well. We hope to gather interested people through that. But I think with the DRB the specific you know there are specific types of persons who need to be

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on the DRB representing um different interest groups at the plane board. My understand I think there's a historical commission member if I'm not mistaken. Right. So those two are specific as well as two licensed architects who who my understanding is they do work in Ammer. So those are the n those are the two

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niche ones that are going to be harder to find because ideally we have membership in the plan board and historical commission and we can we can harness one of those people from each. but it's the two who are specified as architects that we would probably need a little bit of help with um just because

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we don't have the depth of interactions um or knowledge of who who's out there practicing. So that would be where we want to maybe focus. And there might be another member who I'm not um recalling the specific charter requirement, so I apologize, but there might be another one.

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And my sense is that we're not the only committee that uh is not not doesn't have a line out the door for replacement factors. >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah, it is a challenge. It's a challenge for almost every committee,

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but with the specifi specificity of having two architects, you know, that's >> a unique challenge. >> Would you mind would it be possible to to um seek out the the charter description of

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the DRB um and and share it with us uh as a followup to this meeting so that we can be clear about that. And I I would like to do a better job of getting it on the next agenda so that it can be more thoroughly discussed too. So we can do that together and we can work on that.

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And and Steve Steve McCarthy is on the call and Steve's going to be helping um in this period of time to with some of the transition. So um Steve did staff the DRB at some point in the past couple years and so um we've recently started talking about this as a strategy for the

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next couple meetings. So um there's there's definitely some we want to keep an eye on staff support for your board and others. So, um, we're we're kind of hatching the plan now. >> Okay, great. Um, all right. And then the the the last

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thing that's on my mind, and it this is a very personal request, but I've been assigned to teach a class uh on Mondays from 4 till 5:15. Um, which means that meeting on Monday is going to be impossible for me in starting in

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September. And so I I don't intend for us to to um hash out our schedules here, especially because a couple folks aren't present, but I would like to um request a a doodle poll or when to meet or

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something to identify um other dates um of the week that we could have shift our regular meeting to. Um for me, almost any other day of the week is is okay. So >> and very broadly for the members in

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attendance here is this time of day good or earlier you know during business hours or later in the evening just very broadly speaking I don't know I don't know if any of you have any preference you know some I don't know if anybody's at work all business hours or something and that's

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never going to work. >> Yeah that's that's a couple of us for sure. >> Okay after >> I think this time actually works pretty well for me personally. Um, I prefer the 4:30 over the 5 just because I have young children, so it's helpful for me

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to be able to kind of like wrap up work a little early and then um not be too far past home stuff. Um, but that said, I'm I'm pretty flexible. Um, I also have a conflict coming up on

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Mondays, so um works out well. Um, Tuesdays would work well for me at this time if that's an option, but I I know we don't want to hash this out right now. I'm just putting that out there. >> No, I appreciate that. And um I had uh gotten some some feedback on on this

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from uh Karen uh Karen Blum already and I'm trying to find her email. Um Karen Karen, what what about you? Does is there um are there any days of the week that are uh not possible?

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>> Um I'm I'm the most flexible of all because I'm not working so everything is pretty much open. >> Okay. Well, why don't we um start with a hope that uh Tuesdays at

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4:30 could could could work and we will do due diligence and check with the the other members of the of the board. And like I said, other other nights of the week are also possible for me. So, we can we can kind of hash it out, but

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maybe um attention is moving to Tuesdays. Of course, Pat is the historical commission uh representative and I don't know when they meet. So, off the top of my head, >> maybe it's later in the evening though,

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but that doesn't always work. >> We're We tend to be third third week of the month, maybe their second week of the month. >> Oh, right. >> Okay. Um, so, uh, Steve or Jeff, if it would be possible to send out some kind

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of a poll or, you know, gather gather that availability feedback that takes into account staff availability as well. I know you guys are going to all the other meetings. >> Yep, we can do that. If you had if you got some feedback from Karen Blum, if

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you don't mind forwarding that to us. >> Glad to. Yep. And for ironically what I said before about receiving information via email, you can talk about scheduling. Scheduling is is is generally acceptable. So we can do that by email and I think a doodle poll is fine so we can figure that out. >> Super

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great. Thank you. Um all right. So we have uh a few weeks to sort that out. We the August meeting would still be uh if we need to have one, it will be um let's take a quick look at that date. um

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August 17th at 4:30. That's Monday, August 17th at 4:30. That's still on the calendar. And our goal here is to shift the September meeting to a new a new date. >> Okay. >> The conflict that I have does start in

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August. Um >> but that doesn't necessarily mean that I, you know, that that needs to change. um especially if we have a quorum. So, >> okay. Excellent. Um Okay. Well, I'm also open to moving

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the August meeting, so maybe we can hit this question of the new schedule uh sooner than later. >> Maybe we won't have any applicants. You never know. >> Maybe we won't. It's a slow month. People are on vacation. Um okay. Is there any other business tonight?

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Sounds like no. So, um, go ahead. >> I want to just also note that in addition, Erica, you are looking to transition as chair, correct? >> I would love to >> because you are amazing at it and you've been doing it a long time. So, I just want to

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um support you in that. I'm not volunteering myself, per se. I think that would be kind of contradictory to what I'm >> aiming to do, but um but I do want to just um echo that I've heard that from

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you and remind folks that that's also um on the table. >> Thank you. >> So maybe on the next agenda, if it's August or September, we'll have election of officers. Is that how you would normally You probably would have normally done it in this meeting, but we're we're still trying to catch up. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. We'll include that on the next agenda. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, everybody. Thank you. >> Thank you to Phil >> sharing your feedback this evening. Um uh motion to adjourn.

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Grant, thank you. And to Stephen and Jeff, thank you for supporting us tonight. Appreciate you. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure to uh meet you all. Although, Lindsay, I do think we uh we worked together once upon a time when I was doing the DRB. >> Yes. Oh, I remember. Yep. It's been a

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while. >> Great. All right. Well, have a lovely evening everybody. Ciao. >> You too. Thanks. >> Thank you. Thanks. Especially Erica. Thank you. >> Thank you, Erica. Bye. >> Bye.