##VIDEO ID:XqaE4LBQEY0## hello good morning good morning Myra good morning I guess I'm unmuted now right yes yes you are now did you just come on like 10 seconds ago I did I have been um you know I'm still having problems with my computer so I tried to log on on Phillip's computer and ran into some problems so I ran back over to my computer oh no and I I'm I'm Gonna Leave myself unmuted because uh where I've been having problems is um when I attempt to mute myself I'm not uh I lose uh the ability for sound so is there anyone that for who can fix this there there is and I it's been my fault that I haven't reached out to have them come and take a look at it um we they lost uh the IT department lost um a person uh who took another position so they've been uh short-handed and I've been trying to manage things on my own but I because with this meeting I always always have trouble if you aren't there first I can't get in when you come in right so I'm always sitting here waiting for you when you're actually in but when I get there first I can't connect to you so I have to keep now I know I have to keep going out so like I went out four times before you were there and I knew that it's very odd and everybody has their own little quirks with this right so one thing that we could do um that would allow you to go right in would be to name you as a co-host and then you yeah You' be that there yeah because now now all I do is just I go I leave I go back I leave I go back I oh there she is yeah it's it's sort of weird and I haven't figured it out because if you can't you can't know what's happening on the other end because if you're not in you don't know right so it's all it's sort of weird anyway do we have we have sarin and do we have anything else yes you you have um um pretty much uh everyone with except for Cody so Elise is here s Jim and um Ian okay well we do have a quorum so and it is 11:30 all right so I will read the opening remarks pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means okay and hopefully the technological means work okay um all right so we need a roll call um Jim are you here I am here yay okay sarin I have heard yes I am and Elise I'm here and Ian I'm here excellent and Myra I am here so five of our six people are here and um there's an announcement but we should have Cody present for it because it has to do with a very nice little profile in the Mass Live um did people read it I haven't sent it out to everyone yet oh Well when Cody comes you should let me know so we can talk about it then right because it's about him so okay um so excellent um I don't have any minutes attached to my right you you I neglect to type up the October minutes I'm I October was sort of a difficult month for me towards the end of the month so you don't have any um October minutes and they will come together with your November minutes I'm I'm behind Okay well believe me I'm not in any better shape than that so me too um all right so the um the first thing on the agenda has to do with becoming a commission right and there is news actually um I got a message from Paul bachan this morning that I should call him which I did um and he wanted to talk about the seven versus nine people um and I told him that I would bring it to you um for a recommendation to him and whatever we recommend he'll do but here's the deal I was incorrect about one thing um if we have nine people people the Quorum is five even if only six or seven of them have been appointed um which I thought it was the majority of those already appointed and that is not the case so nine makes a quorum have to be five um I don't know if that is problematic for anyone um but um so we do need to have a uh someone appointed by the town um either an employee or a appointment an Town what is it technically um a town official appointed or elected um and we also need to have by Statute a person who is a family member of a person with a disability now Paul was sort of implying that some people could possibly fill two of those roles as in if you happen to have a disability and be a family member of a person with a disability you could be the person with the family member even if you already already are on because you have a disability right um and uh I also the town person appointed who would have the vote doesn't have to be Pamela it could be a town official who has a disability or is a family member of somebody with a disability so there were a couple ways I hadn't thought to look about to look at it um and I wonder if anybody has any opinions about the seven versus nine he would like a recommendation from us um Jim go ahead um that the Quorum of five do all members count that is does the town representative count is a member of that Quorum all the voting members yeah so whichever Town member it is is um you know whether it's Pamela or someone who's appointed because they are a family member of a person with a disability and a town official excuse me that person would count yes well and if that's the case I mean I it seems like we usually have five members at at these meetings uh I'm not certain that that's going to that really presents that big an obstacle I you know you guys have more experience with this than I do but that's my take on it okay um anyone else have an opinion I kind of agree with Jim too I'd like to see us increase in size into nine okay Elise do you have an opinion I no I don't have one either way okay Ian um I not in terms of the numbers but I was gonna say um I the category of both uh having disability and being a family member of someone with dis disability um so that I if if we're looking for someone to F to fill that category I I would fill that category but I don't want to take that space away from someone as well if that makes sense well I think actually I fit into the category as well and so I I hadn't thought of it as a possibility for having more than more one role he was just saying I mean he wasn't going one way or the other um but he was saying that it first of all nine person committees are are in in his experience more unwieldy because people feel less significant so they tend to miss more meetings um that that has nothing to do with us particularly that's just anecdotal from what he observes from other committees um and that so that's number one that he said and and uh number two we don't have tons of people waiting in the wings to get on to this committee there isn't like a waiting list of people who are you know contacting the town all the time to find out if there's an open in so I don't know what the current application system is oh by the way we would not have to reapply for our positions we would be um I forget the word he used but he would appoint us without a new application so he wanted to know who wants to be reappointed and for how long so think about that but we need to come up with a we need to come up with a um recommendation for five or nine I'm sorry seven or nine and I you know I never had thought about it his way before so I'm sort of sort of still mulling it over as in in all the years that I've been on this committee and sarin's been on way more than I have I've never known us to have no quarum except that one time where the gentleman from the track came and we did not have a quorum that's true that was the one time y SAR you've been around much more do you remember many non I am sure my memory is doesn't go that far so I can't tell but I don't remember it being a significant issue and if there was no Quorum and you could discuss things you know among yourself you just cannot come to a vote to decision so I don't think it was a problem my question is if we increase it to nine and if we are like right now we are seven and we are missing a member and uh so would that be an issue we can just say up to nine and maybe there are wonderful people waiting there to identify them you know and um so does it really restrict anything it just increasing increases the Quorum size right yes that's the only problem but as Jim pointed out hamla is here so we actually if if this was the committee we would be down one we would have six appointed and Al um six appointed Pamela we would have seven appointed six are here so even if we had a nine-person committeee we one over for now does everybody want to stay on the committee though what if one person do well he wants to know that um does is there anyone who doesn't want to remain when he reappoints [Music] uh I was personally thinking of popping off okay you could stay on for one year because some of the appointed positions would be one year because we have to stagger them um so it would be sort of a halfway between getting off and staying on for a long time I don't know if you'd consider that let let me think about that I don't want to take meeting time to get into it okay is there anyone else who's considering leaving um the the what it would be not being on the commission is there anyone else considering not being on the commission okay so we would have five remaining um well we don't know about Cody um and my I'm gonna interrupt for just a second because uh Jim dropped off and so I sent him an email oh he responded that um he doesn't know what's going on um he'll he'll try to keep rejoining but he has lost his connection and so far he's been unable to to reestablish a connection oh my God tell him to try his phone okay or or the or is the other Implement see this is part of the problem with Quorum too because he wants to be here but he isn't I think he's back yeah yes oh okay cool yay um so I think what we should do is let people keep on their thinking caps and at the back at the end of the meeting I'll come back to this and find out if there's Paul would like two things he'd like the number that we think it should be and he would like to know who would like to be appointed to the commission um and for how long so uh we'll come back to it because you need to think all right um the next thing on the agenda Pamela is the update on on Town Hall which there is no update um it will be according um I did reach out to Rob Mora and Dave uh zc and um it will their response is it will be early next year in springtime before facilities we'll have a a chance to start working on that so I um okay there's no news on that front and um I also wanted to point out to you um I'm not sure if you heard when she entered that Samantha gfin our communications director is here with us oh no I didn't actually thank you this is great okay is she next on the agenda she is next on the agenda so why don't we go to the website right so Sam I'm gonna give you um uh access to uh to co-host so that you can bring up the website that might be easier unless you would like for me to do it no yeah I can do that okay how I G to do this perect so hi everyone uh like Pamela said my name is Sam I'm the communications manager for the town I just started over the summer um and have been working with pamel on the Dei website and some of the other web pages that Dei works with including the Human Rights Commission um so we're really looking right now at the disability access advisory committee's web page I know the name will be changing but fig figuring out what you want about the website uh what changes all of those things making sure it is accessible and anything there as well um so I'll just kind of review what's there now um and then we can get any feedback you may have already so I guess first of all Welcome to our meeting this is probably not a one-off because there's a lot to talk about with with the website um I thought we were going to talk about access to the calendar I think that's what I wrote to um Pamela but um so at some point I'd like to talk about the calendar from an accessibility perspective it's very hard to find things um that are in the calendar so like if you're looking for a meeting of the Town Council it's not so easy easy to find it I can't say it's impossible but it takes a very long time um for me to find it so that might be something we could talk about I don't know if anybody else has trouble finding anything in the calendar part so um Sam I'm gonna just suggest that if you're able to enlarge your screen and yeah please I can't enlarge it enough on my iPad great perfect um yeah definitely we can talk about the calendar as well um because that's kind of what I want to know is anything about the website too that it's inaccessible in general um so we'll definitely Circle back to that um but yeah like I mentioned right now I've been working with pamon updating the de web page and some of the other board and committee web pages that she works with with and so next on the list was you all um so I'll kind of just review what's there now um so right now it has an overview including the goals of the committee um including serving the town and it citizens as an advisory committee on issues of physical programmatic and employment accessibility and ensuring equal access for people with disabilities there's also mention of a deaf and heart of hearing registration form that the committee is leading an effort to collect contact information for the deaf and heart of hearing for emergency communications purposes I know a lot of this may be from like a while ago so that's kind of the point of coming back to this is seeing what might beting as I think about this we're about to change our identity completely we're about to become the Amorous disability or Commission on disability we have a charge we have a lot of stuff that incorporates some of that um that you already read I mean I'm really wondering in a way if this is a little premature um just because this page is going to change I don't know anything about the deafness registration form does anyone else nope so what I know is that the the form has been there for quite a while and when Sam and I looked at it it was actually active and someone had registered within the last year huh so there is this form and what do we do with it or what does anybody do with it yes so my understanding and I talked to a resident somewhat recently about uh an initiative like this of really add just collecting information so that way our First Responders and police and fire have a catalog of this information so that way when they're responding to certain addresses they'll be alerted to um someone who is deaf or heart of hearing living at this resident so they can take any extra precautions or um just have that awareness I'm not sure what the back end of this looks like when something is submitted and how the police department and fire department use this right now um but I'm sure maybe folks on the committee could look back to see the original purpose of this and method for it does I mean it's a good idea but do do we know who the form goes to so right now it's emailed I believe to Pamela um anytime someone submits something okay so the form goes to Pamela um people might know that it's there and apparently one person did but it would seem to me that if you have a form like that which I think is a very important thing to have it should maybe be also on the fire department page um and maybe on the police department page should be highlighted yeah highlight it because who would come here to look for it yeah yeah again I'm not familiar with this initiative it's just currently lives on your page but I definitely think if it's something that this committee cares about we can figure out the best method for it and who it should be sent to well it's not who it should be sent to it's who how are people going to know about it yeah like if I have if I were deaf would I look on the disability page or would I think oh my God what happens if I have an emergency maybe I would go and look at the fire department page to see if you have any way for me to sign up for the fire department to know that I am deaf and if we're going to have a form like that it should be in multiple locations so that people who need it have at least half a chance of finding it yes very good point Myra yes definitely and so again Pamela and I can kind of figure out uh with the fire chief and police chief on having that added to their web pages as well and again what happens once someone does fill it out too um to make sure that if people are filling it out because we're putting it places what happens next yeah okay anyone else have any um suggestions for Samantha about that particular form where else should it maybe go besides two First Responders uh it's Le here I just find that really this is really interesting because in the apartment building I live in there are such people and we were all given forms to fill out and give to management about this and I don't know where that went it should be there on their uh they should have that I hope that's just interesting all right that's probably off topic but no it's it's not I mean if you're gonna have a form and you filled out something like it although you didn't fill it out on the website it out on paper I filled it out on on paper and it asked you know um do I have you know in terms of evacuating a building you know do I have specific needs and stuff and I filled it out and I gave it back I never heard anything I hope they I hope it got to them Pamela is there something you can find out from the fire chief right so we did have um Chief Nelson here last year we have an interim fire chief now um um and so I think that probably the best course of action and uh I'm speaking a little bit out of term would be to leave the form as is I would actually broaden the category um so that it um it it's does it's not limited um to deaf and heart of hearing but um but anyone disability and then we can um ask um can link it to both police and fire and the other department that might and I this is a big might might be DPW but so I think um I think that Sam and I can can work with those other department heads to make that decision um and Myra I know you were thinking that this conversation was a little premature because we are you are going to have that change in legal status from committee to commission but um I want to just suggest that the information that we start on now will will make it easier when the change comes for Samantha to have that page up and running um we have an idea like so obviously the charge will go there the committee members will go on the new page as well um uh and then we'll have to sort of archive the minutes from this committee that so that they would also live on that page so you'd have your history there um so it's just a a um okay it's a good for us to get started okay all right anyway um Samantha thank you um but yeah so now at least we know I agree the idea to broaden that form is very good yeah um okay what I can't see the form Samantha so I don't know what comes after yeah so um I'm back to the to the committee page now um and so again like pamelo was saying I think just figure out the format and what overview information we want included so uh for example other committees it starts with the mission which is somewhat here already um then we want the meeting information so right now it has that the meetings are held virtually on Zoom the second Tuesday day of each month from 11:30 to 1 p.m. and then the list of members including their names their start of term and their end of term um and any vacancies as well and the other information that we might want on this page is useful links and so it could link to this registration form for death heart of hearing will expand to mobility issues that's used for emergency communications um we can also yeah link to any other helpful pages right now the only other information on the page I'm on now is um information about a new planning project again it's probably not something that's new anymore this page probably wasn't updated for at least a few years um but it does mention the town recently updated is ada4 self-evaluation and transition plan and has in a link to that plan there as well on this homepage the committee also has a couple sub Pages um that can point to and then again we can discuss really how we want to condense the information what information we want on each page okay oh go ahead yeah sorry so the other page it's a very small page it just has the Ada 504 self- evaluation and transition plan which looks like it was updated in 2020 so there's a link to that I think this could just go on the committee page it doesn't need to be its own page since it's just one line and then a link to the plan um and then the other page with within the disability ADV access advisory committee is um the self- evaluation surveys so this is a self- evaluation of each Town Department um I'm not as familiar with the context of this but it does list the assessors conservation Finance Health Human Resources Information Technology the Jones Library maintenance planning the senior center Town Clerk and town manager select board and so each of them are linked right now to a document that I believe that com uh Department filled out talking about any identified accessibility issues um and how to address them or the what the needs are but again it looks like these were filled out in 2006 so I don't know this is jumping I'm sorry to interrupt it I'm legally blind and this is jumping very quickly I wonder if you could just I know you're pointing out different pages but can you roll them a little more slowly yeah I think I just opened up this one was the only other one um as an example um so this is the an example of the conservation department um again it was from 2006 so I'm assuming I'll move to the this is the town website page so this is something else for the committee to decide on um what the status of the self evaluation process is for Town departments regarding accessibility and how we might want to have that included or not and the only remaining page um that I'll just cover quick is a page can I can I interrupt you for a second go ahead yeah let me can you go back to the self evaluation survey and just um enlarge that page and I will just take a moment to um so that folks understand so yeah all right so included under the Ada um transition P page was this additional information which were um self evaluations that town departments did in 2006 I would actually argue that this information is outdated and does not need to leave live on the um on the current page it's um I'm now almost almost 20 years old so it's really um yeah it's there's there's no useful information here well there might be but that would be quite embarrassing for the town well listen done everything that they were supposed to do in 2006 but but but the information itself is quite outdated what we would hope would be that that um this information would be captured in the more recent Ada action plan so they should have carried over the activities from 2006 to the more recent Ada action plan I think they might actually have consulted that right at the time it was only 14 or 15 years old but when they did yeah so so we could I I would agree that it probably shouldn't even be there what do what do people think no it's wasted space if it's not useful it's just more things to plow through before you get to what you need right so highlighting the more recent Ada action plan would be helpful um and then the last page that cm is going to bring up is um um a page that's just a generic page that shows a additional links or uh resources that have some connection to uh to Ada um and so one thing that we certainly want to do is retitle that page because links doesn't really tell us anything about what the information is um and so we could retitle that page to Show additional resources or additional yeah and some examples on this page are the Ada policy the American Americans with Disability Act um the mass office on disability all of those are additional uh resources that could be made um could be highlighted in a different way so yeah so if anyone on this committee wants to review these links or resources just to confirm that you'd still like all of these listed um again I'm not sure the last time this page was updated if all of these are still applicable but that kind of concludes what currently exists on the web page it sounds like we agree to uh remove the self- evaluation surveys from 2006 so we can remove that since a lot of the information is in the updated action plan and transition plan um the other thing that I would I'm going to go back to the like committee's home page um the other thing that I'd actually push for is to like condense all of these sub pages and just put them all all the relevant information on the committee's page that way it's easier to navigate and access all the information because a lot of even the links we can add something to the bottom additional information or useful links and Link them there um without needing to navigate to all different pages and we can also highlight the action plan from 2020 um as a prominent Resource as well well I agree that it should all be on the page and unfortunately if I were to open it now I wouldn't even be able to listen to you but do you have it setup to be navigated by headings and stuff like that yes it is it is uh set up by heading so the headings right now are overview um meeting location members um and so we'll kind of keep that mission meetings members additional resourc es or useful links the as well are there accordion things there or are they all just links under they're all just um there's no accordian it's just subheads and then the text okay that's good I mean it's it's not the 2024 state-ofthe-art but I don't like the 2024 stateof the art so um okay so what we need is do people know of additional resources that aren't listed there and you don't have to know now but like I I assume from your other life Jim you might know additional resources that aren't listed there um I don't know do we have Jim I would have to that and and see yeah okay so one suggestion that I might have if I could would be um to send out the the addition resources are Links Page as a homework to the daac and um and I maybe we'll divide up uh the page so that everyone I mean if you want to take the time to look at all of the resources but if each member could maybe take a take a look at you know four or five um and at the next meeting we could talk about whether they're useful or not that would might speed the process Myra I don't know what are you want to assign them randomly yes I will okay all right so then we won't all take the same ones okay right yeah okay I think that's a very good idea for the next time we can do some homework and in addition we can think about whether there are additional resources um and in order to find that um Pamela you had said that you had located some very good websites from to disability commission um did you pull anything off of those or did you because I never received a list from you of those or you you said you had a few right I did I thought that I had sent every did you did I think that I did it and then not I thought everyone had received a link with a couple of different websites like this is one from South Hadley I did not did anyone uh yeah I wait Ian say that again please I I received an email a couple you did a long time ago yeah see if I find it whoops you're breaking up I can't understand what you just said yeah it was last week I believe or the end of the week before that I sent an email to everyone okay well I somehow missed it but I had surgery three weeks ago so that's probably why um okay so um okay if it's there would you mind sending it again nope I can send it again sometimes things go into the Eternal garbage can in my computer and I never see them yeah I can I also reviewed them because Pamela passed them along to me so there's one from South Hadley Northampton believe Arlington and then Boston um I did look through them prior to this meeting and a lot of them have the similar information of their mission meeting information members and then useful links or and additional forms that that Community offers that may be helpful um for folks visiting this page the only thing that I really found that was unique is from this self Hadley page where they actually had like a video introduction on their Commission on disabilities um so it linked to a video where a couple of their members just talked an overview about the um commission I think the video they made was from a few years ago and it is like already clearly kind of dated in the information but it is interesting a different modality to hear and learn about the commission that's both audio and visual um rather than just text on the page okay that's all right thank you um okay so we have we're to have home Ian go ahead sorry I just found it this was the email from Thursday November 7th that had the agenda and the Hanner memo about the round didn't have that in it it it does have the links in in the body of the email oh wow okay I didn't I didn't notice it either yeah you didn't notice them either no NOP aha well we all have that email so we can just look at it again okay perfect all right thank you all right so we have homework that we're going to get for the next meeting we want to know if anyone has any additional ideas for resources I'm going to examine it for screen reader accessibility um and then the next time maybe we can talk about um the calendar um yeah I'm happy to take a look at that real quick now too if you want it I haven't well as I said I don't have it in front of me but I know you know if I were to turn it on then I wouldn't be able to listen to you and then um but when you're looking like you okay go to it um yeah I'm gonna I'm just closing my screen real quick but I will go to it now so I'm not hopping around um let me like if you're on the homepage for the town yes what do you do okay so yeah so I scroll down now so there's the public meeting and the community calendar is there one that you typically try to use um you know I don't know the difference so the public meetings is like where this committee's meeting lives and other committee meetings the community calendar is more like community fun events oh okay all right so the public meetings if you go to public meetings um then there's this you have to choose your month yep you have to choose your date then you choose the date and then there's a list of meetings that are that date with a zoom link right yeah so I clicked November 14th um so let me see what we have listed for November 14th so for me what I can uh read here is yeah Town services and Outreach committee what usually shows up for you when you select the month and date so once I get the date I'm usually able to find it but finding the month whoa this is hard to read okay so tell her what's hard to read everything is there's no double spacing everything is in large a lot of things in large caps and very close together um yeah if things were double spaced it's just very busy and crammed together and there's a lot and even enlarged it you can't um double spacing would really help it's just like a big paragraph yeah so I will share there's some just general limitation theat that we use I know at least um I believe that the name of the meeting is like maybe stands out as kind of a header in a way for me I see it as like a gray bold um color but so when I click either on it or on more details um that brings you to the event page I I couldn't even focus on anything to to click on yeah yeah it was just really hard to I mean you know no this is good to know and I can talk with our kind of provider for the website to figure out um what this yeah first of all does gray bold work for you Elise nope nope I didn't no I the font I gotta tell you um when you're highlighting stuff um color contrast is key and gray does not work yeah gray gray doesn't contrast with very much of anything no gray is terrible yeah so you need something brighter more saturated so a lot of people it shouldn't be anything red or green for sure no but a lot of people do better with blue dark blue yeah very dark or um or do better just with black on white with maybe a little bit of highlight if there is something that's a prominent thing to choose like for me I would want it to be um you know I have to look at it again exactly for accessibility but what she's telling you is she can't see it um she can't see it because of the spacing and she can't see it because of a color contrast yeah for for me lack of spacing and too much on a page crammed together and yeah you need not only color contrast but something that will grab your eye you know maybe like a brighter blue you know like a a royal blue or just something that will catch your eye okay yeah this is helpful sorry go ahead I have a question um I have macular degeneration and um the Bold is easier for me to see bold fants you know because the other ones is just so fainted colors so I mean even if it is dark blue or whatever it's very difficult then I also have a better Vision when I can see it at night uh night shift or something because that's what I do with my iPhone after a certain time I can read my messages and everything much clearer it's with a black background so I wonder if we can an alternative like you know we can click onto that with visual impairment usually see white on black better than black on white yeah yeah actually that's true that's true the same for me yeah so I will share one thing that the entire website has every single web page um in the bottom right hand corner again this is on a computer I'm not sure what it looks like on a phone right now but it has this little blue circle with like a white silhouette of a person that you can click yes and it does have different tools including a contrast one which when you click it it's supposed to make everything kind of more high contrast um or desaturate it um or invert it so it switches depending nice this is much nicer yeah so definitely on any page on you do invert is that what it is yeah so it's first says contrast kind of to cover all the options and then it goes to high contrast desaturate to more like black and white and then if you click it again it goes to invert there's three options within this contrast button um and so there's other tools here too every web page has yeah I didn't know that either I didn't so is there a way to make that um that availability more prominent on the page that's right I mean user friendly I have no idea if I can even find the same thing again me too yeah so maybe I'll yeah I think so this is outside platform what is it in in the iPhones that a night V Vision or something like that it's in the settings it's easy to understand what they're doing yeah so this I think is tricky in that it's every time you visit the website you have to find this little person icon in the bottom right and switch it could it be maybe at the top and could it maybe be visual um could it have instead of have just be called I don't know what it it's just a little let me see what it know what it me but could it be called um uh visual accessibility or something well so right now when you are on it it has like the alternative text of explore your accessibility options and so it does more than just I mean I guess a lot of it is visual um but yeah so this uh this is a plat or tool that the town acquired I think over a year ago so I was not here when they acquired it but I can see kind of what customizations that we're able to make to make it more prominent on the web page in my I'm looking at the settings on my iPhone and it said a night shift okay so you know and then uh under that it says Sunset to Sunrise so I must have maybe there were some options but you know those of us that use it in our iPhones we will if if it is called night shift or something we'll say aha let me give it a try rather than to invert I have no idea what sometimes you can just call it color inverse I mean you know night shift is Apple terminology which maybe they own who knows and and maybe it's you know but color inverse or invert colors will make it clear that people you know that you can switch it also on top really that's a pretty typical low vision accommodation is to do color inverse invert colors um remember way back in the old old old Word Perfect they the background was dark and the writing was white but you could always change do you remember any of this maybe you're not old enough in the in the way back with the word perfect when I used to be able to see it you could change the background you could change the foreground and I used to like the yellow on blue used to work really well for me but it was really easy to flip it around and it was you know with um with u Microsoft Office they made everything look like paper black on white um but it used to be different does anybody remember that besides me no okay you're oldest I am not no I don't think she no I'm not I am not she really isn't but I didn't start using a computer till 2005 oh yeah no then you don't remember any of this I'm talking the early 90s no all right anyway um okay so if if Sam you can look into making it very clear What that particular icon is because people don't know um and um the placement of it so that people don't have to look all the way to the bottom of a web page that they can't read in order to find it and one other request from me I always pay my bills online and uh when we can switch to this uh help night vision help could it be appli to all parts of this website not just the disability place you know or the calendar but to all other functions including pay bills yeah so I know right now any single web page on amers ma.gov has this little icon that can be used for different um visual adjustments the pay page I am not positive because it does hop to a different uh website that we use to process the payments but I can definitely look into what resources they have for that web page yeah well that would be great because I am sure I'm not the only one with this issue I mean at least in a Myra has different issues but imaculate degeneration is very common among people at my around my age so that would be a big help yeah also um if and this is a big if if the new guidelines um that were approved last April that require compliance by a certain date and I forget the date with the new with the digital accessibility it it applies to thirdparty vendors so the town um anybody who contract who contracts with the town also has to provide an accessible website so what sarin is looking for will at some point be required so it doesn't seem unreasonable to request it because anybody the town deals with is also uh anyone you know it's article two anybody that the town's contract with for services or web services or something like that has to be able has to comply as well yeah no I appreciate that point because I know us the size of our town we have to be in compliance by 2027 so that's still a long time away for us but I think these outside vendors third-party vendors like you're saying should be getting to apply or comply sooner than that um since they serve other communities as well so I'll definitely reach out to them to see what their plans are for reaching that that compliance okay um but yeah definitely thank you for your time today it's been helpful one for me to help update your all of your web page for the committee I know we'll be switching over to a commission so the language may be changing but we at least have the format that we can go with once the you do officially become a commission and then I'll also have some homework of my own regarding some of the accessibility for the calendar um and some of our thirdparty vendors and moving that icon um to make it more prominent for folks to know that it can be used to make things more accessible visually and I'll look through the screen reader navigation for that particular page um and Pamela can you um send us contact information for Sam or do you want us to just send any comments for Sam to you directly whoops Pamela you your audio is like cutting out weird yeah okay she muted oh I don't even hear anything her her audio cut out she was you could tell that she was trying to oh okay well okay so we can send any suggestions we have for Sam to yeah to P she's pointing out herself so you can send it to Pamela she'll pass it on to me all right this is great thank you okay this is great and I'm sure I'm sure we'll meet again yes but this was a great beginning thank you for walking us through yes thank you thank you thank you all right um we need to talk about rotaries or now called roundabouts um Andy Steinberg sent out a questionnaire did anyone else get it when was it sent I don't remember last Tuesday or Wednesday he sent out a questionnaire wanting to know when we could have a joint meeting to talk about Southeast Street am I the only one who got that he sent out like it was it was like a Google um form like a vote thing where you choose dates that you could make it nobody got that I got that email but I haven't filled it out yet okay it's pretty imperative that people fill it out okay so so um Google Google thing it's a it came from Andy Steinberg is it a doodle PA like yes oh I hate those things all right I'll fill it out I it was it wasn't the easiest thing to fill out but it was you know I could do it I hope I hope what I did is what I think I did I don't know yeah I've done it before I'll do it again yes it's a doodle pole that's what it is all right and if you so so he has a few times on there it's a meeting for the TAC which is the transportation advisory committee oh yeah I have to tell you something oh yeah yeah yeah I saw that yeah the transportation advisory committee and the town Services um and whatever it is TSO which is five members of the Town Council and us and he gave us five um December Five and 12 various times and they're all not times that we meet they're times that they would meet normally so it's like 5 5:30 6 6:30 things like that for an hour um an hour and a half so if you can just check the ones that you could all right attend because they really want our input and if we want to have input we have to go yeah yeah so I'll go back to look all right so if people can do that today that would be really good the other thing Paul told me this morning that I forgot to tell you is that he is recommending to the town that they have a thing like the Transportation uh and Access Transportation advisory accessibility committee entirely about Transportation so speed bumps sidewalks um anything that has to do with Locomotion around the town um he would like it to go to a a citizen commission that is empowered not just to give advice but to take action and so in other words if you want a speed bump on your street you don't go to the you don't have to go to the Town Council and then have it for farmed out to one committee and then farmed out to another committee and then the Town Council has to make a decision um he thinks that things that have to do with the public ways and public um like that should just go directly to that committee and he doesn't know if the Town Council will be willing to give it the kind of power um he said Northampton has a committee like this um and he said that one of us would be a permanent member of that committee um if it comes to pass he would want one of the de uh emmer I can't even think of the name anymore Commission on disability to be a member of that committee that would have some clout which sounds good to me so think about if you want clout um anyway that's just neither here nor there but that was part of what I should have told you before about what Paul said um going back to the roundabouts that meeting sorry can I share a quick this is an email from Pamela because her sound is off um oh thank you she's asked me to share uh roundabout University Drive Grant and Southeast roundabouts uh University Drive Grant this may be what you were about to say but yeah um that this is at the Tso and they have the uh DA they have our comments on it um okay and the Southeast Street uh TSO is trying to schedule a joint meeting to discuss this is that the doodle that you're talking about that's the doodle poll yeah okay did we come up with our comments and did we send it to anyone we well she I think said what she I think sent them comment she sent them apparently something that we had talked about last month who we talked did did yeah she P's not in her yeah and did we get copy of that comment no no I mean why I don't know you know I mean I'm remembering from what Pamela said at the start of the meeting we we didn't get October minutes oh it's probably in the minutes yeah um yeah it might be in the No No the the message that was sent to this committee looking into this rotaries I don't remember seeing anything we did not and then my neighbor Martha and I were talking about it and I said she's very involved with Town things you know she was in the solar panels and everything you know spent lots of time and I said Martha did you know anything about it she says no what are you talking about so we discussed it and then she said I think I'm going to uh write a memo and uh touching all the points we discussed and then it was really not warmly accepted like as if we were stepping out of our boundaries it had nothing to do with the daac or anything she was doing it was just like a citizen's comment so at that time I did not know and then they said oh that DAC has not sent any comments so that's where I I'm left with it and I don't know anything first of all we haven't met since she sent the meet since she sent the memo so we didn't comment on her Memo one of the things we were going to talk about today is whether the daac wants to endorse the memo sign on to the memo or make any um you know or or or ignore the memo but I mean I mean whoever it was sent to we couldn't respond to it because we didn't meet since it was sent so whatever that's about I don't know but um you know I don't know who's supposed to receive it warmly who was it sent to so you're talking about the memo uh Martha sent yeah she might be present at this meeting could you check to see if she's also president present this meeting today she can respond herself do you see her in or Pamela is nodding her head yes she's there can somebody let her in Pamela just gave a thumbs up so I thank Martha joining oh technology you gotta love it so anyway the University Drive thing they got they got money to do it we talked about it we did send comments Guilford came to that meeting seemed he seemed to uh Embrace what we said he needed to do about the C the rapid flashing beacons for that particular uh roundabout at University Drive and we would certainly need to be involved more but um we did do we did talk about that Guilford was there um and who knows what'll happen after that but this one um the meeting that Andy wants to have with the three committees is on either 5ifth of 12th or 5th or 12th of December um and we have to respond if we want to have a a say in it we have to go um Myra Martha has just joined okay oh great Martha welcome to the meeting thank you for sending a memo um you have addressed a lot of the issues that we talked about um when we talked about it but you wrote them down um and you who did you send your memo to yeah well thank you uh as sarin mentioned I'm sarin's neighbor and she was the alerted me to the to this issue and I thought oh my goodness this really sounds um I don't know unusual shall we say and and not well known and so uh I sent the memo that's I guess on your screen it's to the town's TSO committee because they're the ones Andy Steinberg and the other four who are responsible for reviewing this memo and I also then sent it to a few other people around town and said oh my did you know about this uh because and this is the first time that I've ever listened to one of your meetings and for me this is very informative because I think a lot of people like me don't really stop to consider in in Practical detail the challenges that various people with various kinds of disabilities have but my goodness then I went and looked at the a roundabout a triangle Street and I thought my goodness if I were a guide dog would I know how to navigate this you know well the person with the guide dog I I my dogs don't know anything except what you tell them that's right yes and so um you know so my reaction is that what's needed is is education and getting people to really stop and think about the implications of this and so I just tried to you know write down the implications but that's what I did I sent it officially to the Town Council committee aha okay well if um I don't know why they didn't respond to it um but it was well done you have some very good points and what I wanted to do was see whether the daac wants to endorse the memo um or if we want to write something that includes any or all of it I don't know what um has everyone read the memo reading it right now well if I may say something I think it would have a lot more Force if it was something totally independent and came from you okay yeah um well we're going to have okay so apparently this is much more serious in some ways than I think we know because there has been a plan for this roundabout at Southeast street that has been developed and we're supposed to comment on the plan I mean my plant is my comment is Chuck the plan um but I don't I don't know if that is one of our options at this point there were the lack of communication about this I think uh has been problematic um and I don't know Andy Steinberg wrote to me that he sent us materials in March about this if he did I have it never came to the for my God he's written to me a million times about what we think about the roundabouts on Heatherstone Road I mean we spent more time on that um than anything to do with this um and I know we talked about the rest of that intersection as we spent a lot of time talking about root nine as it had to do with Colonial Village and route nine as it had to do with the other side the east side of the intersection where as Jim pointed out there's no sidewalks and it's treacherously difficult by the way Jim did they fix that as far as repairing the sidewalks there is that what you um yes and no U you know there's that little mini plaza where the dry cleaning and the little Chinese restaurant are and that was closest to the traffic light and they did they paved that over with asphalt they did not go any further east so there are still a few problems as you continue up that sidewalk you know past Spirit house and places like that on the other side of the street they made absolutely no repairs at all so there's like a 3x4 you know what used to be concrete which is now just nothing uh which other side with the south side of the street or the the south side of that yes okay okay okay and so there's still work to be done and I don't know what this finished it I don't know oh I think you broke up you don't know say that again okay I don't know whether they plan to complete the work or whether they think they've accomplished everything that they were supposed to do this down oh my goodness okay if I can just share what uh Pamela had said in in the email um in terms of updates on repairs to sidewalk at at Route n in Southeast Street and triangle street is that where we're talking about yeah had said that uh according to them that it's both done um so it sounds like that's maybe where they it's a fulltime job babysitting for this anyway um okay all right so they did a little bit but they didn't okay I don't know that we ever talked to him about the south side of the street Jim did we yes we did we did okay um or at least that was part of my initial uh reconnaissance and I shared photographs of that and I will be happy to take more photographs of both the South and the north side to show where there are still problems would you also be happy to write a little memo to Guilford that you would send to Pamela um you're familiar with happy may not describe it but I'll I'll do it okay willing willing will okay so we did discuss that and we did discuss at length the east side but I do not recall ever having anything brought to our attention about making rotaries on Southeast Street um making uh roundabouts there because they figured out that there's going to be too many cars going in to Fort River or whatever they're going to call that school um and buses and they can't figure out what to do about it because it's going to be a traffic bottleneck um so I guess they somehow have although he said they just figured it out I don't know what just means but apparently they even got a plan in March so there's a little bit of lack of understanding at least on our part about the timeline for this and about the status of this so we need to we need to decide we can't decide what we think until we see what they are offering right and we don't even know that it was an idea floating no we didn't R either and I'm strongly am skeptical about a roundabouts in busy areas because it really is a hazard for pedestrians and children and everything and leave alone in that area there are lots of kids and with all these traffic line traffic lights that are so smart nowadays there could be other Alternatives into looking that well it seems like the roundabout is the traffic management tool toour and uh oh by the way there was a kid hit in a crosswalk in a roundabout in East Long Meadow 12-y old kid last week he did not die um but he was hit in a roundabout to be wake up was crossing in the crosswalk yeah um and I mean I do we send a letter before we hear them out or do we wait until we hear them out I don't want this to go further I think I think we should also as Martha did we should send them our opinion that we don't find they should look for some other ways maybe using some of the ideas that is in Martha's uh memo and then bring our opinion rather than to say okay present us and then we'll make our comments then it will be too late because everything will be all a you know decided on who's going to start working on that road and how much is it going to cause that kind of a state phase that's always I feel like we're left at at the end of the process and we have no say left at Pamela Pamela did did we I mean Andy was at our meeting the last month he heard us say that we do not favor this he heard us well Jim didn't say that exactly but the rest of us did um we we we all said that we were really concerned and Andy was we were talking about using that service road as a way to have you know maybe oneway traffic on that and one way traffic on the other one and you know and then now all of a sudden it's a roundabout um say that again please I'm sorry I'm just I'm grunting because I'm just so against this I'm sorry I'll be quiet I think um and you can't hear me I still don't have any we hear you now oh you can hear me okay yeah we do it I am hoping that um that we get the zoom repaired so a couple of quick things that I just want to clarify the comments that were made were made on the University Drive uh roundabout not on the most recent conversation um no actually that's not true backwards yeah Andy came to our last meeting when we discussed Southeast Street and we were very clear that we had serious concerns he has serious concerns right so so the so what I have on on my as the followup from Guilford was that um TSO is trying to schedule that joint meeting with this committee about the Southeast Street but sarin the com the comments that were previously submitted were about University Drive and I believe the as a committee met discussed University Drive and um and and and um voted on what you wanted to um what your feelings were about that so they're two separate roundabout issues well actually five roundabouts because in this little H University I mean uh in this Fort River Street from Main Street to College Street they're putting four they planning on putting four of those plus the University Drive so that makes five roundabout separate the University Drive is irrelevant to this discussion ex absolutely it's already done deal they already made the decision and everything and I know I personally raised a comment that people coming from the big wide part toward the university I mean toward the university then it will be a problem there and pedest ring Crossing and everything so but that's besides the point we our immediate discussion what Andy brought he sent us something and I know we only had one light night to look at it before our meeting the next day I tried so hard and the when I got into the link it was huge with uh many many pages and there was no way I could even read it so we we were not familiar with it at all but my shock was in a road which is not even a mile long long that they could place four roundabouts and then there's another thought on that road that they are going to convert that old building was it an old school building or something into housing units and I said people will live there I'm sure and they might have kids I am sure that will be just wanting to cross the street how are they ever going to cross the street safely so I am very much concerned with those roundabout ideas so I I think that um as myor just said University Drive is a done deal and your conversation should be about whether you're going to submit a separate um comments on the Southeast Street and yes and Martha has had her hand raised for quite a while so she's hoping to the okay um uh go ahead Martha and then then I need people to think about whether we need a motion uh about writing something from the daac to the T TSO TSO thank you to the TSO so think about that whether you want to have a motion and then what we then what would it say okay Martha go ahead okay well thank thank you two two points to clarify this this particular proposal for the four roundabouts in front of Fort River School at Southeast Street there was a it was a memo that Paul Bachman sent on behalf of DPW uh to the Town Council on something like the 17th of August you know mid August was when it was first made public and it was based on the dpws having hired a consulting firm that did all the analysis and that was is what sarin was reporting to that these many many pages with diagrams statistics and so on the fault of that was the only thing they were considering was improving traffic flow they had no mention as far as I could tell of anything about pedestrians or bicycles or with any kinds of disability so they had this very narrow focus and the only way to change that I see is for your committee to really write something you know independent of anything I might have said and then get it publicized because I'm speaking now as an you know an outsider who is getting my eyes open thanks to sarin and to listening today and so on and most people just don't even think about the impacts and most people also don't even know about this proposal no they don't they really need to have a memo from your organization it can go officially to the TSO uh then you as individuals need to speak to your individual council members and say hey do you know about this and have you thought of the implications uh and you need then to speak to your neighbors and let people know that there's going to be the meeting invite them to come and listen whenever it is you have the this joint meeting proposal what I what I I did not know thank you Martha is August 17th because yeah we received information about this literally about four days before our October meeting yes we had to discuss it as something that we didn't even have have the three days it didn't come in time to be posted to our agenda and it was all of a sudden something that we had to discuss when Andy sent the materials out and he might have sent them to me on Saturday night and I didn't even read my email until maybe Sunday night or Monday so that's why this committee got so little notice but he gave me three days notice um which included the week um and so there was something not okay about the whole thing and then um and and so I think it would seem to me that we need to this is it it's smelling to me like another one of those Town Hall steps things that's right um which they just went ahead and misrepresented the accessible entrance to the state architectural access board the state approved their recommend you know their request their proposal based on inaccurate information that the state didn't know was inaccurate and then they built it and then we discovered it and then you know oh well it's too late now yeah it I'm I'm feeling I don't know if I have a right to but I'm feeling very similarly broadsided um by this and I mean does this committee have one voice about this particular recommendation of of one roundabout two roundabouts three roundabouts four roundabouts at that I mean how do we feel about roundabouts at the intersections of Southeast and college streets I don't like them anywhere yeah Jim you're the one who doesn't have problems with them how do you feel about these because we have to write something from the whole committee and um and I don't know how you feel about them you know I strongly recommend that they look into how how am col solve that problem they they are located they have buildings on Ro across from both sides of route nine and there's so much traffic there they just put these pedestrian Crossing where they can punch a you know the light and they have like Smooth bumps or brick that kind of is raise and everything so it doesn't really BL totally block the traffic but it slows it down brings awareness so how could they do it on Route n well this is different because it's exits my husband suggested that if you want to put a roundabout anywhere you make like a big Bus Loop inside the entrance to the school like not on the road like there's a loop you go in you go around you go out but there's no roundabout in the road so um I I I don't know but that's a straightaway and that you know it doesn't have entrance to things there so that's it's sort of not the same um but I the question I had for Jim was if we're going to write a letter we need to know how you would vote if somebody's going to make a motion we need to know how you would vote about the process and the product here because I know Jim is not opposed to roundabout in general like I am well you have said you don't have any particular you know you don't think I I think that roundabouts are completely locations uh here we're talking about a lot of conceiv pedestrian traffic and so the the town needs to demonstrate that somehow they're going to make this safe for people uh whether it's you know the of a couple of as s has talked about whether it's getting rid of the run I mean I'm you know they have a couple of roundabouts but somehow it works out okay there's no risk to pedestrians think it's very important uh that that they confront the issue of safety for persons with disabilities and children you said wait half of what you said was lost where you said there are a couple of roundabouts that are okay where uh oh he's cutting out yeah and Jim I remember you saying once that people with disabilities that live in John nothing apartments in the TR on the other side of the triangle Street uh rotary they are not feeling comfortable getting into their Wheelchairs and rolling down we we have addressed this sarin I mean we went we did a walk around Jim and and we have addressed this they have memos they have all of that we need to we need to address I I just wish I had heard which roundabouts were okay are you referring to the ones down by Atkins Jim um what I would you know for I guess the the prime example in this area would be the roundabout on the other side of the bridge um which is you know that's if if you're a pedestrian there you know whether there's no anything else you Tak your light your own hand the roundabouts near Atkins are sort of in the same way and and of course the thing is Hampshire college students will cross wherever they want to cross and people in apple will cross wherever they want to cross uh affect the rotaries but here I don't know how many people walk along s Street on that on stretch around the school but um it seems to be that there are enough that this is just seems like a crazy solution I mean the town needs to this I mean I don't know I think we have to uh split too many hairs on this as far as any memo we send to town now so I think I missed what you said at the end that you don't think we should split too many hairs you think we should speak in general about the uh emphasis on traffic flow rather than the safety for pedestrians and that's yeah okay you don't like that leas I don't know I just safety for pedestrians is where I'm coming from but what do I know I don't drive and I don't use round no no no what they what what they are doing is emphasizing traffic flow what we need them to do is emphasize safety pedestrian yes yeah okay okay I got you do you have do you have an opinion um I'm just gonna make a motion to thank use some the language from Martha's memo around um I guess it's the the second part that most impacts us um in in terms of uh traffic circles particularly impacting access for people with disabilities um okay and and use that as the content of that as a a letter to the Town Council okay I would like us um to write something like it but either we're going to sign on to her Memo or we're going to excerpt I think she's write that it would be much more important for us to be in our own language yes so I'm not even going to read what she wrote again um because I don't want to sound like I plagiarized it um Pamela do you think oh wait e Ian made a motion uh are you willing to take friendly amendments that we um that we write a memo along the lines of instead of oh yeah yeah sure okay sure okay all right uh um we need a second for Ian's motion I second that okay all right so Ian has made a motion that we have to write a letter to the TSO um talking about our serious concerns about the implementation of roundabouts at the busy intersections um you know on Southeast Street by the school um you know it's by the school it's by there are some well there are going to be more residences there um the synagogue is there um and so we could talk about that we just we're very concerned about the emphasis on traffic flow and that we are you know une equiv unequivocally opposed to creating roundabouts for purposes of traffic flow that their primary interest needs to be pedestrian safety and not traffic flow that pretty much what you want uh yeah you're asking me yeah everybody yeah and they should look at the uh more improved technology with the traffic lights and everything to solve the problem which would also maybe even save some money okay to the town but that shouldn't be part of the memo of course so this isn't going to be an easy one to write I will write something I will send it to Pamela she will send it to you guys you should send a response to Pamela about whether or not it's okay for us to submit it um we will probably not have another meeting before that three-way um committee meeting so we need to submit something before it so we're going to have to act through the emails about the memo um which isn't the best way to do it but that's what we're going to have to do um also you have to fill out that survey because if you don't our voice will not be heard is there any way you can forward that memo just in case I couldn't I will um will try to resent out the doodle poll all right that would be great okay okay so is we're gonna um oh yeah we had to go back to find out if uh do people want seven or nine members on this committee commission you motion um but you didn't take oh my God I'm sorry thank you I'm all in favor of Ian's motion seconded by sarin say yes yes yes yes all opposed so we have a motion and I will do my best Pamela you're gonna probably have to help me edit um this is not the easiest one because the one that I would write would not be so nice anyway um I um all right so seven or nine not that anyone's had a minute to think about it but what should we tell Paul I would go with nine personally okay Jim yeah I see no reason not to go with nine okay Ian um we we currently have six is that right well we currently have six authorized for seven and Pamela or somebody else from the town would be a member that would be a voter so we currently have six we would currently have seven and if we got one more we'd have eight so yeah um but the Quorum is five the Quorum is five either way or theum is five if we have nine irrespective of how many people have been appointed okay uh yeah I guess I'll go with sorry with nine okay and Elise um I guess nine would be okay as long as it's not too many cooks you know sometimes if committees get really big but um I go with nine I guess okay so I'll recommend nine and I'll tell me of the six of us five of us who were here we unan me unanimously chose nine is there anyone who wants Paul not to reappoint them uh you know what you could write that to me if you want I'll write that yeah I don't want to do this in in the meeting public yeah all right but remember that um of the people who want to be reappointed um you can you can ask for one two or three years do we need to let you know right now um is there anybody who would only want one let's do it that way I'm fine with a onee term okay that's too bad um I I will go I can be reappointed right I mean yeah yeah yeah you can you can okay all right um because I mean the thing is is that the membership needs to be staggered yes across the bo correct yeah all six people can't go for threee terms or something so correct no and I've been on for five I think uh yeah we've been on for five both of us yeah that's a long well you have actually at least you have one more term one more year on your current term so if you yes because it's a it's each each appointment is a threee so if you were to accept a one-year position you would go out when you're supposed to go out which would be an ' 06 a 26 uh 26 25 well let me email you about that yeah okay all right um anything uh anything else probably not hope my I I don't know if this should go as an amendment to the the thing we just passed or a separate thing but is is there any way we can let um TSO or the Town Council and general just to uh in in general consult us on things like traffic circles before it's already almost a done deal how do people feel about this I mean I you know what I said about how it just doesn't smell good should I include that in the letter I I would accept that as a friendly Amendment what do people think maybe a friendly amendment that I make myself [Laughter] okay but we we have to vote we voted on the the other motion so how do people feel about uh any equation to what happened about the town hall the done deal I don't know is that mixing apples with oranges should I just out that's how I keep that sep okay yeah I wouldn't put it in okay yeah see this is why I need a committee cuz I would yeah well I know okay we will not put it in but I might mention it in that meeting all right so everybody's homework is fill out the doodle poll number one do the website research number two our next meeting is December 10 is that right that's want say is that not right six S8 yeah I think it is the 10th isn't that right yes it is okay oh yeah December 10 anybody well all right December 10 11:30 thank you this was a this was an important meeting and I will have some food and sit here and figure out how to write this memo that expresses our extreme concern so um I know that you guys are over by 10 minutes yeah I got have my voice um before and Jim just went out so I I guess he had sent me some photographs I will send those to everybody as well about s concerns with sidewalks okay okay he said he would be willing to write a memo to Guilford to the town about the fact that the work he had talked about was not really the sidewalk the sidewalks right hopefully he'll do that all right okay thank you sorry it went over a lot of stuff here all right thank you motion to adjourn I'll email you my okay um anyone oppos to adjourning no no no okay bye bye bye happy another