okay we're recording please go ahead okay uh welcome everyone this is the meeting of the finance committee um I'm calling it to order at 4:03 PM we do have a quorum although we're missing a couple of our our members um this uh meeting is being held remotely so um pursuant to a variety of of of actions by the legislature um and so uh all comment will public com will be via Zoom um or via telephone if you are on on a phone line you can um you can raise your hand by I think it's star nine um and then we can we can ident we can uh bring you in for public comment I apologize for the confusion on the start time of this meeting but um we it was because of a um the holiday on Monday we I was not able to get it um set up in time so we had to push it back to four o'clock in order to give 48 hours notice as required so um I do apologize for that but hopefully that means more people will be able to to join in and listen um let's uh go around I see Kathy has joined us let's go around the room to see whether uh you can be I can hear you and you can hear me uh Matt here Bob councelor hanii present Andy pres uh Kathy I'm here all right uh Doug we can hear you I see Hol is here can we hear you you're on you're on mute Holly yes I am here um and I just wanted to apologize to everybody um because of the change in times I did not communicate that to our Auditors and they had another um uh commitment that they were not going to be able to make today so we are rescheduling the Auditors for I believe it is the May 7th meeting okay no problem just put that in there pardon me Bob I'm noticing that councelor Lord is in the audience this meeting isn't posted as a joint meeting of the council and finance committee I just wanted to let you know um the meeting next week on the 25th the public forum on the regional school budget is posted as a finance committee and town council meeting so counselors will be joining that meeting okay yeah Kathy Kathy my my um connection is spotty so I'm gonna make you a co-host so you can help with um public comment if you don't mind allowing people to talk that's fine thanks thank you Kathy so we have um Kathy did you want to say yes I just have a quick question I guess it's of Holly um in reading through the documents for the audit on the main document which is the financial accounting I had a I have a couple questions just on terms which is a little embarrassing because it may be the fifth or fifth year I've looked at these or sixth year but can I just send them to you Holly you know it's purely like what's the definition of this and where does the number come from so it's not on the auditor's report u i mean I can see I can go through you Bob if you want to because others may have them okay thanks fine Holly if you could just um respond to to Kathy and myself and then I I'll just send it around to the committee so everyone has this the same information yep that's fine absolutely great thank you okay so I think um we we trying to think uh we have seven attendees um but I think uh well Doug can I ask you do is Mary best going to be able to join us do you know I really don't I'm not sure I think she might be traveling so I don't think she's gonna be able to so um I think for those uh our agenda is kind of blown up um but I think we should launch right into the review of the the school budget um to give Doug a chance to uh you know have his say and then move on to other things and then um we'll have public comment after that if so Doug um I'm going to turn it over to you uh we sent you a bunch of questions and uh Matt did you want to excuse recuse yourself yeah Bob I'm going to go ahead and recuse right now and Athena thank you for moving me into the audience okay okay so Doug uh you know can you just give us uh you know your responses and I mean I know we asked a lot of different questions so maybe you can kind of give us a you know you don't have to answer everyone verbatim but uh if you can give us a kind of a overall view of of the bud yeah as it evolved so so let me ask this question um I'm not sure I've gotten those questions so when were they s uh from whom ah they came from Bob I I I sent them from to Athena and to Lynn but I did not send them to you um okay so well uh maybe I should just go through what we have um I I know you won't be able to answer some of these right away uh but we do have time so maybe um if we can get them to you um we can um you know you can you can fill in some of the blanks um one of the things the first thing we wanted to know was you know kind of over time the Staffing and enrollment Trends so um and we we wanted every like five years years so it's not you know super burdensome but the idea is to look at how many FTE staff we have how's that broken out between regular and special needs um how many students how many students with disabilities so to just to see the patterns over time or the trends over time um and I obviously you maybe you can give us a a verbal summary but obviously you obviously can't give us the precise numbers right now yeah I can give you a brief brief overview I mean in general our enrollments are are down over the last several years um and so the the tricky thing is that our our um you know when when you scale that way you know students sort of leave in in small numbers over time but the sort of changes in Staffing tend to be a little more stepwise because uh you know sort of reduce a section requires a certain number of students at that grade level kind of grouping to to cause that to happen so so while I think they track pretty closely I mean you know over time we've reduced staff in some areas in in in corresponding uh fashion to the student enrollment um you know it's it's probably not entirely kept exactly the same Pace as the student enrollment I think as far as you know when you look at our number of students in in special education our percentage has gone up what's really happened there is is and this is true in a number of our categories of students depending on what you want to pick you know uh uh English Learners etc etc is that generally speaking we've held fairly steady in the numbers of students in those categories and the totality of students has gone down so their percentage has gone up um so we see a slight increase in in the percentage uh or not so slight increase in the percentage sometimes but you see an increase in the percentage of students um but the total number of students has stayed not too different it's the to it's the overall student count that that's gone down so um and I think the other thing just special education specific is I think some things are presenting differently than they have in past and so we're seeing an uptick relative to need for students uh more in the mental health and social emotional sort of categories um that's a very very broad you know statement I wouldn't you know do I have the that's anecdotal as well I wouldn't suggest that I crunched the numbers on that but that's the that's the uh the indication there in some respects on on that um but I think in a broad sense I did a quick look earlier in like number of Administrators we had I don't know 20 years ago versus now or people in the sort of central office versus this change in enrollment I mean I just did a back the envelope and and we've scaled kind of similarly you know in other words we've lost X number of student or percentage of students we've lost a similar number of central office staff so we've kind of scaled certainly centrally you know in a fairly parallel way to to the students uh my expectation would be that just by necessity we've had to do the same thing with Staffing uh teaching other staff as well if anybody has any questions please raise your hand you know as as as Doug goes along uh councelor hanii yeah I know you don't have the numbers and it's going to be really important for us to get some numbers um you know it by the 25th when we have a hearing I'm not sure if we don't have written answers to some of these questions we're going to be able to make a recommendation at that hearing on the 25th um but you you talk about the numbers of special ed students um staying approximately consistent even if the percentage looks different because of the decrease in total enrollment um what do you know of the numbers of Educators um for special education whether it be uh certified teachers or par Educators over that same amount of time has that number stayed fairly steady um or has that number increased or decreased you know where where does that relate compared to you know a steady number of enrolled students or fairly steady enrolled students in Special Needs let me see if I can answer that in a more concrete way um see how quickly I can get to perhaps an answer in that regard broadly speaking um my guess would be as far as and I'll I'll look up the actual numbers here a little bit more closely um you know our our uh our Trends in you know looking at special education instructions so this will be teachers at the middle school and high school uh have trended upward a little bit but it's been steady over the last 22 23 24 last three years um you know you look at let me see if I can find the sort of par educator section because that's where the big numbers are with our teachers and our Paras um um yeah those have trended up to some extent um you know I can get you better numbers you know before your meeting on the on the on the the 205th um so that is a Thursday meeting just to make sure I got the date right 25th is that right yeah so some of those have trended up and so some of that's dependent upon you know the specifics of particular kids uh needs um so that makes a difference as to how you know whether or not kids need a par educator or don't need a par educator as part of their IEP you know those just to inform you broadly or the the group broadly about you know the IEP process individualized education plan it's contract between the district and the parents and the families about what's the best way and the most least or the least restrictive way to provide uh Educational Services to those students but it is uh you know binding so once that agreement is signed that is what we are compelled to provide um in order to meet the the requirements of that and to educate that student and so if our students profiles have changed uh then we have to meet those needs whatever those happen to be so that's that's a factor that's sort of you know not purely Financial sometimes uh and and it varies from year to year you know with with regard to who the kids are and what their their needs are I mean obviously what we'd like to do with a lot of kids is if if we can uh have them mature in a way as they get through and and proceed through high school to you know mature out of some of that level of need that'd be great not everybody does um and and I think that that uh you know the kinds of things that we're we're seeing with regard to the pandemic and results of that are are are showing up in in some of our our samping levels for sure okay um again I don't know that you can answer this now but we we did like to also see a comparison between ammer and other towns with a similar size 7 to 12 enrollments in terms of overall costs and um you know mix of regular and special needs again it may not may not have all that information but um anything you can do to kind of like anchor what we're doing versus what other other towns are doing in terms of um the costs and you know the um I I can I can tell you from a staffing standpoint we have we have more staff than most other towns um you know they're sort of similar in size do we have you know wildly different profiles I don't I don't know that we necessarily do or don't um but but we do have more staff in particular Educators we have a much higher number than most other other districts do I think how we approach that is a little different some of it depends on there's some of it's driven by the programming that we offer which kind of skews things a little bit sometimes uh in other words there there are um for example we offer some IND District programs of a higher level of need which have higher level of Staffing and we also have a lot fewer out of- District placements than a lot of districts are size so there's a sort of give and take between those two Dynamics because you know when we send kids out um and we've had enough tick in that this year and it's it's a disconcerting one for us um because we like to be able to to have those kids be in our district but that's part of the trade-off too when we start to compare with other districts is do they offer programming like we do uh that allows kids to remain within within the district um and also bolsters our our in-house costs and inhouse Personnel counts so we've got to kind of weigh those those against each other so take a holistic view to to that but I can uh I'll get you some more specifics but certainly we have more pairs than other people do and I think we have more programming than other people do um and less out of District placements than other people do councelor hany thank you that that that comment just brought up a question in my mind we talk a lot about per student costs and how that relates to the amount of money that is paid in Charter tuition out of our district to other Charters um because it's based on per student costs of our district and how does that per student cost if you I'm just trying to figure out relationships here um not advocating something one way or another I just have to ask that state that before I ask this question um how does that relate to the Charter per student cost formula for sending a student out of District versus is providing all of those services in District does providing them in District go into our per student cost for Charter School tuition costs and does out of District placements go into the per student costs or are they calculated separately I'm GNA give you an unsatisfactory answer here uh yes and no so some of the costs are included and some of them are not included um and so it gets it gets kind of messy relative to sort of te that out um um and I'll I'll look into the specifics and see if I can you know offer a more constructive way for you guys in in getting prepared for the budget but but there are aspects and this is one of the concerns I have about that Charter for funding formula is you know the nature and severity of of kids and their needs is different in a general public school versus a charter school charter school is still considered a public school but you know when you have certain areas of focus that's s of thing it it by default precludes certain students from pursuing that as an option um and so the kinds of uh level of need that they're dealing with is different um and yet I'm not sure all of that some of that's taken into account in the formulas but not all of it can I follow up yeah does the formula for that Charter School tuition include the outof district tuition placements or those excluded from the formula I'm not sure exactly because there's multiple pieces to an out District placement there's the actual placement itself there's Transportation cost there's you know is there support for the student on the transportation you know those different sort of component pieces and I just I'm not sure off top of my head which which are which aren't uh and to what extent okay thank you okay so uh next set of questions really are ways of maybe alternatively addressing the the FY 25 budget um the first question here is uh you know if we were able to do a one-time gift say of $300,000 um what would the you know what's teaching staff for other positions would be the top priority for that that's a great question um I think that it it probably depends on who you ask but I I think the in the in the nitty-gritty of that sort of in between you know sort of what was talked about in in February and what was talked about in in uh and voted on by the school committee in March um you we haven't had that conversation about what about in between there um I think that the that you know in general you know uh one of the the lenses that the the school committee took when they were taking this was to try to you know any sort of student facing positions are the ones that they wanted to restore um obviously those that have the greatest impact um uh and have the the you know greatest impact in a number of ways primarily on students but also staff because you know we're going to use things like um retirements and exits and that sort of thing to help mitigate the personal impact on individual Personnel um and I think that it it goes to you know you have sort of Core teaching things that you have to do so special education requirements of of like I said earlier of the IP that's going to certainly be areas where we're going to try to bolster those a little bit we're going to look at our our most impactful areas of core uh academics um and then you know electives would be sort of the third tier that's the a broad sketch of it I'd have to have the conversations with I haven't had yet with the with the uh Administration talk about what's their practical approach and some of depends on on um uh course enrollments and sort of where the needs are from a standpoint of of what kids have have chosen so you know um if they were expecting to cut I'm going to make something up here woodworking you know and then suddenly 25 kids shine up for a woodworking we need a section of woodworking you know that kind of thing changes what the conversation was a month ago or two months ago so those also play into the choices that we'll make as as a district moving ahead but I I think you know if you think about sort of the triage of of trying to keep it away from students as much as we can and you know those things that have the highest level of impact which would be you know and and and requirements associated with them like special education or core subjects that have to be talked to every student uh and then electives that's going to be the broad sort of you know lens that we take to that Bob can I follow up on that one yeah no Doug I apologize these didn't come to earlier especially this one because this is I think it requires you know what you just did you know trying to mull it over so the notion is whether it's 200 to 300,000 and it's just let's just for the time being say it's just Amis giving you the money right trying get a sense of if you went back to the drawing board with staff what would be where would you most likely put that money compared to what you've shown with the with the cuts so rather than trying to give us an answer now it was trying to say um the ask of Amis was 700,000 but something considerably less and the other thing I want to say is that if this were just literally one time you know so this just uh uh takes you through to next year and then you're back where you are you know just trying to think through oh what what what would be the priorities internally knowing that it would be student facing but you know program areas or anything it would be helpful for us to know and I'm not I I crafted this question but I'm not I'm not convinced we've got $200,000 but it's a sense of something less than the ask uh what what would it buy it's a pretty crass way of stating that thanks yeah I appreciate the ask and and it is a legitimate sort of thing I was you know we're trying to put together some some materials for for Saturday's meeting and thinking about exactly that sort of thing is like is there some in between we can have a conversation about what does that mean and and I think it you know the the answer not to be to blip is that it depends um if it's sustained support that's a very different conversation than if it's one-time support um because if we you know generally speaking giving what we've what we put back in with with the budget that the school committee voted um are things that if if not continued to be supported so if it's one time you know they just get reduced the following year potentially um if it's ongoing support then it's then it's a little different sort of strategic conversation about how uh some of those things play out over time um and like I said you know I'll I'll put together some answers with with staff about that a little bit and and they're thinking on those on those fronts and and again there's a piece of it though that also depends on on uh well there's some there's some strategies for the district as far as how do we compete in a in a market because that's what we do as a school with you know Charter and choice options out there um to what are things that that retain students within our building what evidence we have that those have work those strategies and then you also have um you know what are programs that we've been uh trying to encourage and develop and what do we think kids are going to want to take um because you want to sort of meet the kids where they where they want to be as far as those those uh course offerings and programs that they have thank you these next questions are are I'm going to combine two that that they really get at the specifics that you proposed I mean it's kind of complicated because you have the levels you have the level uh Services budget then you have the original budget that was voted and then you have the The increased budget um which was uh you know which has been approved or voted by the uh the school committee um but you basically had some you know there was a focus on world languages in these the sort of the final budget uh or you you originally proposed that cut and then you you that was re restored in the final budget so and then there were some uh other counseling and and some other positions um so so first of all um how many of these were Esser supported positions versus um you know just just other positions uh number two um why these particular Cuts rather than other you know other cuts um and then sort of ass associated with that is I know that there was a lot of concern among uh the parents at the at the Town council meeting uh about the loss of AP classes you know in languages you know further on Downstream when the there the students are middle school students are Juniors and seniors um but what about working with with hammer college and UMass to get more uh availability of uh college level language courses which could be you know my son took a a a uh a mathematic a math class at UMass and got college credit for it so it it it could be quite beneficial for the students so I just wanted to kind of put just if you can just kind of give us some idea of the rationale behind the specific cuts that were that were proposed yeah so so just to the S question first you know the way we supported the budget this year was a general uh support of Esser so it sort of pushes into a variety of areas mostly in our expense budget um and not really Staffing positions uh so we really don't have any staff that are explicitly you know there may be some that ultimately get funded that way but but we didn't explicit explicitly fund staff with with Sr funds um it was more General budget support mostly on the expense side but not exclusively uh we'll sort of see how that plays out over the course of the current year and even into the new year to some extent um you know uh to the question of sort of why some of these I think some of it has to do with um so some of it was was at the high school they had some some reorganization of departments so really reducing the number of departments and it changes the amount of Time released for department head work makes it harder to get that work done but it is an economy that that that uh uh reduces the amount of teaching staff because there's less time released to do department head and so there's there's um you know some loss in in that you know Administration coordination um curriculum support Etc that department heads do as a result of that but it but it preserves sections of of classes for kids um that's one piece of what was in there and then and I think then uh the other the other piece is relative to sort of schedule and and how our schedule fits uh and how it's framed and and uh you know sort of how many kids are sitting in some of the sections we have now with the arrangement of schedule and course offerings that we have and looking at that going that's a pretty expensive section right and so can we structure that in a different way and it's also you know the the the push back understandably is that it's if you change to uh a different model of delivery it's a very different program and so uh it does limit you know less is less uh so if you offer less then the the U opportunities for kids are less and whether it's World Language or mathematics or pick a topic it it's really a variety that was one where the the sort of class sections gave opportunity to to maybe think of it differently and it does you know put uh limitations on what kids are able to explore by the time they finish their senior year I mean obviously we're we're always looking at opportunities to connect with with the colist to do stuff they they're very good partners with us in that regard um we have a variety of opportunities for kids and so we try to do that um when we can uh you know nice thing about AP classes is they sit during the school day um in the languages in particular they tend to be co-taught at the same time so we'll have a a section a time of day that has both an AP class going on simultaneously with you know like a level four or level five language class so the classroom might have 15 students in it and you know five are in an AP class and 10 are in in level five and the one teacher that's sort of straddling those two those two worlds and so we we do you know do some economy along those lines to try to make things work for us as well um you know there's some limits to what that can do and what what experience that is uh for for the kids and you know if you offer less early in the process of of World Language then you know to get to an AP level requires uh some significant choices by students uh in their scheduling and their elective options as they as they go through to get to that place in other words if you wanted to get you know if you you limit their choices to begin with then to get to an AP level requires essentially what they call doubling up um which means you know instead of taking sort of One World Language per year you take two one year same thing happens in mathematics same thing can happen in in other courses as well not optimal in a lot of ways and in and in some ways uh it's an option but it's not you know if you're taking two languages in in a year that means there's some other elective you're not taking right so it is limiting your choices um in some form or another whether it be in World Language or in in in some other option that you might have explored had you had more flexibility in your schedule ccil haniki yeah um the doubling up thing I know this is not necessarily the finance committee's purview but I do have to say that that's actually not possible for some of the languages in in my view and so I think you have to be forthright about that for Chinese for example I mean unless you're going to allow someone to take Chinese 1 and Chinese 2 at the exact same time same semester same time you can never double up in Chinese with the current way of Chinese offerings Chinese 1 2 and three are in the spring semester Chinese 4 five AP and culture literature are in the fall semester so unless you're taking one and two at the same time or two and three literally at the same time which is probably not doable because you need one to take two you can't double up and you can't take four before you take three um so to say that that's a possibility when talking about the language Cuts I think is disingenuous and I know that's not where Finance deals with but um I think the school should be more forthright about what the Middle School cut to languages would potentially mean in the future which is for some languages no AP given the current schedule unless the schedule changes and I think that's the critical point that would be made would be that potentially schedule could be differently so the fact that we currently only offer one you know levels one two and three in the spring could be altered so as to allow kids the opportunity but it also depends on you know demand is there a sufficient level you know like if you have to offer level two in both the fall and spring um then you know you have to have uh enough students to take it to make that worthwhile but but it's a it's within the realm of possibility but I I I get your point though it's it's also as currently structured would that allow you to get there no um and you can't simultaneously take one and two because you don't have the efficient foundational skill to do two if you haven't done one yet so you know it I get your point and I think that the thinking uh is that likely the the the Avenue would be uh to to uh to alter the schedule to make that a possibility I think the other thing that we have to weigh here as we think about this and we think about and this is and it doesn't matter the you know pick a program area and this is is the conundrum is what are we offer what can we offer um and what uh and how many students are impacted by those kinds of things um that's part of the calculus too is is when we start thinking about some of these uh choices and it's like we don't you know we don't want to put those limitations and you know is it better to have you know and I'm not drawing this as a as a value judgment and all you know it's like is it is it better have AP Chinese or AP Calculus of some sort versus class sections in nth grade of 30 versus 22 I mean that's some of the trade-offs that are happening with with those differences um that are all part of the mix of this and trying to find those balances between between those things um and that's the struggle we're going to have as our enrollment shrinks a little bit and we want to try to continue to offer this wide spectrum of of programs which are great and we'd love to um but we're we're going to have to think about that uh very carefully over the coming years as to as to whether we can continue do we just have the student population to sustain um some of the offerings we've had in the past um or are we or do we you know do something else with school choice or do we I mean I think we need to explore all those you know ideas um you know sort of simultaneously because you know World Language is the the the area that got a lot of of conversation in in uh the convers you know in in the last few months it could have been about a different area um you know we could have been having at about math or social study offering or any of the others I think so I don't want to you know hyperfocus on on one I think there's a more systemic thing we've got to look at and think about over the coming years to uh to uh you know structure ourselves in a way that that is uh functional and is and as deep and as broad as we can do for all of our students Kathy uh yeah I want to just build um as Bob said he asked a a complicated almost three-part question but the the the Amerson you mask part of it Doug I know you've been over there at least once to say um can you offer us some financial help and I know Amis college does do some in kind work particularly with the the elementary schools um they had they gave me a list but I'm really wondering about um the higher level courses across the board if we could have a if there's been an exploration or could there be of the advanced placement courses the ability to take a course so um what I know about is people who did physics who did math I'm not sure I knew anyone who did language but I'm just thinking you know in my son's piece but there is if you do languages UMass is rich in the the scope of languages that's offered and I don't know how much Union contracts preclude a student teacher um who is going for a teaching degree in a language or in an area coming in and being a lead teacher for an extra language course or something but trying to think of what the valley what our town is rich in is educ other educational institutions and this they could write this up as in-kind support if we had a more formal um Arrangement and whether that could be done in time for September or could be done with a this is our Glide path and where we're going so that's my longest question on seeing them as researchers research sources for particularly for our Regional Schools yeah I think that those are all areas that you know that we're interested in in continuing to explore and partner with them I mean you know we we do have to have and consider schedules uh when we have kids off campus at you know it's like how quickly can they get there and get back and how does it fit um in ways that that have you meaning and and then when does when do those you know the colleges University offer those classes too in other words we're we're not going to dictate to the university how they're offering class now granted something like World Language which they do a lot of because all the you know all the Arts and Science Majors have to take language so uh they offer a lot of sections of of of various World languages so there's there's a lot of opportunity there but I think also that's a that's scheduled question is is a real one uh that we have to consider as as a part and parcel of this too um but um yeah I think there's opportunities how quickly we could get something more formal than we have now I mean we have a few things in place in at present and and I think um I can kind of pose those questions and see what what staff who've dealt with with some of that um what What complications arise when they try to try to plug those things in thank you um Doug the the committee H has a there's been a little bit of concern expressed about there there's apparently I and don't take this the wrong way but the the apparent lack of planning in other words um we had this fiscal cliff coming it doesn't appear that you know it's suddenly on us now and now we have a a big hole in the the budget and next year be a bigger bigger hole um there's um you know we the the school committee Regional school committee didn't really go through this at the four towns meeting before you know it kind of got sprung to us so some of the questions that that we have are are related to kind of it what what from the outside appears to be you know a lack of planning and a lack of you know uh understanding that you know we that there has to be some changes made in order to you know as Esser funds were used for for purposes uh as they weren't not available we had to you know there has to be some plan to to to adjust for that so anyway I'm not I don't take this to be pejorative it's just there is a concern about you know these things suddenly hitting us yeah I would suggest um I wouldn't say they're suddenly hitting us I think they've they've hit us a little bit over the last couple years and and will continue to hit us a little bit I think that um you know we have been trying to take some strategic approaches to how we've used um used our srf funding how we've uh used some of our other funds that we can um leverage a little bit more control so how we've used our school choice over the last couple years how we've used our um uh our other uh revolving funds you know we have a few revolving funds that that we have intentionally built balances in in order to over the last couple years because we could use Sr funds and then preserve those for smoothing out this this this drop I don't think we're quite in a severe places some other districts and yet it's still you know it's still a pretty significant uh hit I think um I think from the other thing I'd say that's been you know compromising our ability to be planful about some of this is you know I've been splitting time as as talented and capable and you know as as staff are in the business office you know I'm I'm still splitting some time there there's a level of institutional knowledge I have um that I haven't been able to share with him because there's only so many hours in the day and I think that you know when you look at a building principles bu across two buildings in the middle school high school um which we're trying to shift away from now but but those things all contribute a little bit as well so there's been a number of of factors there that that have have you know interrupted or or um made it difficult to be as as planful as we'd like to be and I think that could we have been more more planful absolutely I mean I think we've done some things I think we're um you know we're leaning into that if you look at in some materials I sent you know there's some things at the top that are adjustments where we're shifting cost onto revolving funds for for our Summit Academy for um some of our our uh uh administrative staff Etc that that we're able to do that because we didn't spend those during the the pandemic dollars uh and we can sustain those for a little while um to help us sort of bridge this time frame and and um so there's a you know it's a mixed bag of of things could we have done more absolutely don't doubt it at all and it's it's a it's a tricky thing I think the other thing is that um you know the the sort of Revenue sources that we have um you know particularly Chapter 70 have have really been very flat and the difficulty is given this you know that's you know a couple years ago that was in the 31% of our Revenue was Chapter 70 it's now down to 27 28% you know when it goes up less than what percentage Point our costs are going up whether they go up 4% or they go up 8% you know you're still behind when your Revenue doesn't kind of keep pace so that's another thing that's kind of compounding and and in a way the the P you know the Esser funds uh as chapter 7 has been sort of flat as we've shifted funding to other districts in the in the Commonwealth because the the Commonwealth has certainly spent more money on Chapter 70 it's just been targeted to some districts that are really in in a higher level of need than we are um you know the the Esser funding has has made that shift less noticeable um because we've been able to use Sr funds to to kind of um alleviate that that short shortfall in in you know direct support from the state um and then I think that you know now that the SR funds are running out that that you know small percentage increase in in revenue from the state is is much more noticeable to us um and you know that coupled with you know some of the revenue estimates from the state are lower so they're much more cautious about their budget for fiscal 25 etc etc so it's a kind of compounding effect here but but um anyway so I think there's there's some ways it's you know that Revenue problem's been a little bit hidden because we've had Sr funds to help us a little bit um but it's kind of becoming much more front and center at the at the present time Andy yeah Doug following up on what you just said I think that uh those of us who've watched the budget year forear over a long period of time know that what happens each year is that we start with the district calculating the level Services budget from the prior year and finding out the size of the Gap based upon information at the fort towns meeting and then finding what the Gap is and there seems to be always um more reductions than um additions or um anything else so what it's really evident is that over a long course of time U the in the inflation each year in cost is exceeding the inflation in revenue and um gets to then to the question of um what caused us to reach such a steep Cliff this year or was it just a matter that it was going to happen and this is the year it happened and the other thing is that um I was I had talked with John tricky in pum and John said that he had been asking about a three-year plan to see what U we could expect to happen over the next three years uh given U what's being asked of this year and uh is that something that we're going to be able to see on Saturday yes so we're working on that right now and and looking at that I mean there's there's a ton of assumptions that fall into that that are going to make people a little you know uncomfortable because there's a lot of you know unknowns in there but but at the same time we're going to do the best we can to sort of estimate those those things out over a couple of years time to to sort of see um uh either compounding effects or or uh you know the the reduction of compounding effects on some things you know I don't see the Chapter 70 Revenue unless there's a major change to to Chapter 70 or you know I if the uh if the student Opportunity Act continues to play out as as it will over the next couple years you know I don't see that Revenue sources suddenly getting much much better so we're going to be um you know still in a in a somewhat Revenue starved circumstance relative to our expenses and while we have declining enrollment I'm not sure it it you know and some of how we've we've coped in past years is is that you we've had some of the reductions make sense relative to declining enrollment so you know the the uh need to be exactly level Services isn't always perfectly true if we have a if we have reductions in the number of kids um but yeah we'll put together some numbers uh and project out for the next couple years and sort of see how things look you know in in different scenarios of of um of Revenue uh and and expense and and how that you know uh might play out in the in the coming years um we're literally I had multiple conversations literally today just talking about how do we how do we sort of present this how do we make sure the numbers are right what kind of assumptions do we want to include or not include um and that sort of thing to to to get those numbers for for the whole group on Saturday yeah Doug to just to to follow up on that a little bit um one of the questions that that is is in this sheet is the the sort of impact of changes in the Middle School to the high school you know in other words if you reduce languages in the Middle School how does that impact the high school uh and so I would hopefully your your assumptions will take that into account U that you know if we make certain Cuts in the middle school then or support you know we we add certain things in the middle school then then we have to this what is what the impact in the high school is so because that's another Dynamic there that yeah as best we can we'll try to put that in it it may be a little broader cut than that there's so there's a number of things that have very sort of broad um uh assumptions Associated so sometimes something more specific like that is a little harder to track in a real way um but at the same time we're GNA try to capture the the intent of that as we move as we move through the years okay thank you councelor Hani um a couple things with this conversation so the first one is much more of a not not related to this at all but I was looking for just now the line item budget and it's not on the town's website or the school's website under the budget office under budget Links at all when you go through the B business business office budgets and all of that the last budget you get is the FY 241 in documents unless I'm looking in the wrong area it's very hard to find on the school's website um I did eventually find it in a January presentation in board Ducks um not with the budget hearing it was not attached to the U meeting where the region school had their budget hearing only the presentations were and the final like one p major um I I think that lack of openness is a problem it should be easily found um it shouldn't take me 20 minutes to find um you know it should be attached to every agenda where the budget is discussed um in some sense or easily found on a website and it wasn't easily found but but that that's for you know for future planning um when we talk about cuts and we talk about level services um the level Services budget you presented that then had cuts um never got adjusted for things like lower insurance rates that got adjusted and was presented as an adjustment at the end of level services but there's no change to levels there's no change to Services when insurance is cheaper than you projected in January in June you know in April when the insurance rates came out and we knew what they were the budget document was not changed to reflect lower insurance rates it was listed somewhere at the end three documents later as an adjustment but that makes the level Services budget look higher than a level service budget actually is and I think that presents a lot of problems for us trying to really figure out what when you're trying to compare documents and compare years and comp pair percentage increases what an actual level Services budget is because we never see that number um in in Flatout numbers in a sense and and one of the things that I've struggled with throughout all of these discussions in my five years is the town the town government side has also had to live with a 3% or a 4% increase every year in its operating budget and it's presented a level Services budget within that number every year um without need need for major or any real cuts to Personnel despite Personnel also being the very significant part of our budget that it is to the region too the Region's level Services budget was over 8% increase this year and so I I'm trying to struggle and I struggle with and I'd like your take on why can why is a Region's level Services budget consist consistently well above the 3 or 4% that the town can regularly offer basically every year when the town can do it or even when the elementary school could kind of do it this year what what is different about the region that the region can't seem to keep its level services within what is typically known as the available or likely increase every year in operating you know in that budget number while the town and even the elementary school seems to be closer to being able to do that so I'll uh I'll start with the the the um the first thing which was the sort of finding the line by line I'm sorry that it wasn't posted into the into the budget document section of of the website again one of those things that that we haven't done we generally only do sort of two versions of that full uh that full budget because it takes a while to put together so when we go to make those reductions and adjustments those are specific oftentimes sometimes there's single Lines within the budget sometimes there are multiple lines for example when we if you're looking at like um uh reductions in in you so the teaching staff ones that were were proposed those might hit three or four different budget lines you have to sort of parse those across those budget lines and and then make sure things add up the bottom and that sort of thing um so we typically do um when we get to it is the the sort of first version of the budget and then the final version of the budget and that's why things like adjustments to health insurance are shown as an adjustment to the budget and I would agree with you that that's part of why we have an adjustment section it's not considered a cut and I think to say that adjustments that reduce the costs like uh most of the things that are the adjustment section are are truly uh shifts to the to the level Services I agree with you that that that that level services in its truest sense would would have those folded in directly and and ultimately do before we before we get um uh to the final uh final version of the budget um we typically like I said when we get the the final uh adjustments and and votes from everyone we we do uh take all of those adjustments and the cuts Andor additions and and uh push them into the specific budget lines and so you know when we did that for fiscal uh 24 for example you know if you look at the health insurance line that's adjusted from from what it was you know in January of 203 when we were talking about the same kind of uh estimate of of cost and then real cost so we do it uh it just doesn't happen very you know in a super timely way and I'm sorry that you couldn't couldn't find find it um um anyway so to the second question why is it you know the the you know the regional budget particularly the sort of uh overall expenses uh are growing at that rate um there's a few different pieces of the puzzle so so I'll say this so um ESO support for the budget is one piece of that so that's a component of of the cost of you know we got 8.29% or something in our overall increase there some of its like you say adjustments to to to um you know health insurance and some of those other things that actually make it not 8.29% in in real numbers um so that's a subtlety of it and timing of of of presentation but um so that's a piece esser's a piece because of the shift in in the amount of available funds from Esser um so the current fiscal 24 budgets getting supported by about $1.1 million in Sr funds um which means the expense side of the equation is about a million dollars higher than than would be the case um and this coming year it's it's 500,000 so there's $600,000 of that you know 8.3% that are just the differential of Sr funding available so that's part of what drives it I think the other things we start to see is is you know uh we negotiate contracts with employees um you know depending on what the colas are that makes a difference the other thing is that you know we've gotten younger as an organization um so the number of Staff we have at the top step which would be just getting if you know just for those that don't know we have steps and colas so if you are new higher you tend not to be at the very top step and so when you uh from one year to the next T tend to get a cost of living increase as well as a step increase um and then for staff that have been with us a while they end up at the top of the grid and so they're they're just seeing cost of living increases so you know when you have uh a younger staff so you have fewer people at the top of of of the group you've got a higher level of inflation and pressure year-over-year um and I've seen that over the time I've been with the district so when I started with the district we had oh just shy of about 70% of our staff were at the top staff now we're probably closer to 50 um and depending on which department so that puts a little more inflationary pressure on things um you know and what we can negotiate with our staff is is a factor too um and it's you know I mean it's a fair negotiation so you know we go into it we you know sort of press the point to try to you know make sure that that the choices we're making collectively around that bargaining is is you know fully understood in other words when we negotiate the cost of living that has a you know a a cascading effect in in you know every year after that um and that's regardless of which contract we're in so we we try to keep that in mind so I think you know we we've got esser's one piece of the puzzle I think that we've got um a younger staff you see that on the emmer side not as much um on some of that you know the the the Esser differential is smaller the the Staffing differential is smaller um we've got some stand loan expenses that are greater in in the region because it is a separate standing Financial entity um there's ways in which you know a municipal District sort of shares some costs with the town and and has some economy of of scale there with with the town I think the other thing uh just back to sort of how the town does some of its reductions um you know staff turnover may be a factor for them um it sometimes helps us as well I mean they may have more of that I think the other thing is is that they don't present their budget the same way so we they may be making reductions or changes uh before level Services get sort of framed and I don't I don't say that as a as a as a negative approach or or a critique of of the town and how they function but but they may and I don't know for certain offand you know how they how they've done it recently but how they frame you know sort of level Services could be different I mean we we take a snapshot in you November essentially to get started that's a pretty early snapshot and a lot of things change um they may not be taking a snapshot as early I think there's a general higher level of stability in their Staffing and you know the knowns and unknowns because um you know we have a dependency on who the students are and what their needs are and so that changes things for us a little bit creates a little more of a dynamic situation as far as Staffing and and we just have a lot more people you know the town hires and has on saff you know a couple hundred we have about just you know 600 and some across all three districts I should be clear on that but I think all of those are factors in the in the puzzle KY no I'm okay sorry it's a leftover leftover okay um you've gone you've touched on a lot of these other issues um Bob I do have one I have a question I mean this is uh this is uh because of were headlines over in Northampton if if the union would reopen the contract and take a one-year freeze just on the cola is there any estimate on what the savings is for that and again you can't answer that off the bat but I'm just thinking of you know if the um what you just described as with more people moving up the steps it doesn't mean people are on a freeze necess a lot of people aren't on a freeze they're they'll be progressing up a step so it's a it's kind of a how many people are at the top where this would be a genuine freeze and I know it was a really difficult contract negotiation to get to yes um so it's it's it and some of this was brought up during those negotiations with the revenues for the school Chapter 70 are only going up by this much if the cost of people working there goes up by a lot more it's going to hit positions but I I just if there is a rough way of getting that number that would be useful and I don't need it now actually I I did look at that um and you're suggesting 0% Cola versus what's currently in the in the contracts I mean clearly there's something between zero and what's in the contract there's half of it or yeah right um broadly speaking and this is a very broad um you know the difference between zero and 3% Cola across uh is in the $500,000 range just to broadly probably a little higher than that but that gives you the sort of order of magnitude there okay that's fine thanks very much the the other thing I'll say though is I mean part of the the you know the negotiations and and the urgency understandably on the on the staff's part is you know we're all experiencing inflation you know in in recent years of you know seven eight percent so you know there's there's a reason why nobody's happy about inflation because it makes us all poor and and it hits people hard and and uh and so you know when we talk about things like oh our health insurance going up 99.74% yeah we as a district carry a big chunk of that cost but the individual employees who have health insurance with us also have their rates go up that same percentage and so that bites out of out of their out of their you know Cola and so that it's a difficult um conundrum um around that but I I I totally uh I had a 10year history of being on the union side so yes I completely understand that but it was just a a question on on on where a stop Gap to get us through a year might be um that saves positions so thanks yeah there were we also had some questions uh there's some questions in here about you know kind of because Amis is part of four towns entity um what happens if like emmer decides to do something but the other towns don't and I know there's the the three4 the the three and the four but I mean you know if we were to you know somehow add some money and the others towns didn't add it at it would we then would that throw things off um in terms of you know end balances and you know if there is an an excess of that what percent gets returned what town and all that is there is there a way to deal with that or is it just is unprecedented so you don't really have a a process for it well actually you know a couple years ago um after the fiscal year had started amorist found itself in a in a positive circumstance with with their revenue or expenses I'm not sure which but they had additional funding available and they did a a midyear appropriation to each of the Departments not just not just the schools um when they did that you know the the Regional Schools took that as a gift um and at the direction of of the finance director he said let's let's include that in the base for the moving forward um so it it kind of depends on that question about whether it starts to mess with the sort of balance of things if if we do uh if Amis for whatever reason uh outside the assessment method appropriates a chunk of money to to the district um you know sort of a core question is do you want us to count that as part of the base in other words when we go to say oh it's a 3% increase from last year are we counting that gift or are we not counting that gift it's a critical question and and I think that um that makes a a big difference you know for for all the calculations and it and it does uh and it does shift things and other you know I think the other towns are considering that kind of an option as well is like you know might we do a a non-assessment type of of appropriation uh I think the critical question is when we go to do fiscal 26 do we do we consider that part of your base assessment or not um if you consider as part of the base assessment then you know it tends to not create quite the same problems because the revenue is sort of projected to be there um if it's if on the other hand it's considered entirely separate from that then we've got that gap of of funding to fill uh much like when the Esra money runs out so it's there's good and bad about it okay well that that's a I mean I we we have a lot of other there there's some other specifics in there but it's it's not worth going going through all them right now I think does anyone else have some general questions about Doug for Doug okay I don't see any I don't have a general question but um M so I don't repeat ma Mandy's search for the more detailed document Doug if you could just send us a link I've never quite figured out where to go when I go to the ARP site for something um and when I just did Arps and budget I found 2018 information so you know I I know I know the difficulty of keeping up S sites but if you you could just keep as link because I know you had told us um at at the four towns meeting that the total Charter enrollment and what we spend on charter is in that document and I was able to go to the desie site and get charter dollars net dollars total dollars and people dollars for both our our um Regional and Elementary and I think even having taking in half that out hold Keeps Us whole as a region you know so I know that's not going to happen by September but $2 million when we're sending 21 is net versus 5,000 when we go to a district school if we went to 10 it's suddenly a huge amount of money Multiplied on the kids so I think not enough people know that information and you've done a pretty good job on talking about Chapter 70 um almost being flat as opposed to growing so it's a shrinking share but that's part of what has been the pressure because of the declining enrollment but that's a chart the charter issue is a very different issue it's the basic funding of Charters was set up in a way that that hurts um and it doesn't hurt just ammer it hurts uh some of the other Regional Schools as well um and it and it's completely out of our control so I just think um I if you could send me the link it's useful for me for me to have the detail and once I find the link maybe I'll be able to find it again because I keep links so that would be great thank you y absolutely councelor haniki yeah um a mix of questions sort of which is so there's the region budget that was passed that we are considering right now and then what I call I'm calling for ease of or lack of a better term the guidelines budget which is 700,000 lower I mean there I just lack of a better term um the budget we thought we'd be looking at until the region passed something 700,000 higher um what if any planning is going on in your offices and with the school committee in case the region budget is not passed um because of budget deadlines of June 30 and all um is the plan is there a plan it if that plan is to present the cuts as presented previously I believe when the school committee asked um are there other places to potentially cut spending to meet the guideline budget your response was no um I I think I don't know um what what other places did you consider for potential Cuts or how did you go about making those decisions of getting to their versus other things for example I I briefly looked at this and Athletics has more expenses than the revolving Fund in Revenue um I don't know where those expenses get paid from whether that's the general fund budget for the school district if it is was there a consideration of looking at Athletics becoming Revenue neutral um instead of expense you know instead of an expense line um as part of the cuts or were there other places that you looked and disregarded or how how did you go about doing that and is there a plan to revisit that or is there in planning now a potential to revisit that if the school committee budget is not adopted by four towns so I think so just so the difference between sort of a um the conversation we had in February at the for towns meeting versus the vot the budget that was voted at at school committee that difference is about um I'll tell you exactly $941,000 you know Fair number of that is is adjustments which are are are um are you know changes to the actual um uh level Services budget so to your point earlier um you know nonetheless you know there's about 300,000 of that about half or so of that 750 are are are adjustments and refinements of of of uh estimates of cost but the other half of it is broadly is is other reductions in other places um uh and so you know we we had uh and have some open positions or positions that will be open as as a result of retirements in this in uh some places throughout the district so we looked at those um you know we know we have certain um uh cost increases in in our expenses um you know we look through all of those we do we do as we build the budget we go through sort of every line and look at sort of past history and and and there are some areas where you know uh you know you look and and it might not have had to SP you know we have like $3,500 and then we've only spent a, the last three years but then you know there's some other line right near it that might have spending that we have you know sort of back and forth so there's a point where we kind of think in terms of the totality of given sections um with with you know history as our guide in in in many ways and there's a lot of those that you just you can't zero out and you know like we know we have property insurance and property insurance as a whole you know sort of industrywide pretty significantly increasing over the next couple of years um recent history with our other kinds of insurance are are driving costs up so so when we really want to make a difference in in our budgets it's often driven by by people because um the the things that are of of uh a more flexible nature in our in our sort of raw expenses are you know a they're they're much smaller component of our budget um and and a number of them are not you know very movable so we still got to heat the buildings we still got to pay for electricity um and other utilities so those things don't have a lot of wiggle as far as making reductions you know we have um you know curricular materials we have to buy we you know still got to purchase some paper and whiteboard markers and that stuff you know those don't have a lot of movement and even if you even if you zeroed them out um you know you're talking in the hundreds of thousands you know a couple hundred thousand maybe at most if you zeroed them out and you couldn't have school there's things some of those things you'd have to buy anyway so uh you can't really zero them out but but um you know we looked at all of those uh specifically ath ICS we have you know most of that cost is carried by the program and the fees um we haven't adjusted the the fees um over the last couple years that's on our agenda for this poll to look at those fees uh currently we carry just a few salaries in in the budget um and again that's one of those areas where uh over the course of the pandemic we built some balance in that revolving fund to help us out um and then we'll we'll review the sort of structure of of our our um uh our fees for that uh to see what what we can do as far as generating a little more Revenue there um but I think all of those are are all of those things that are of that sort are are all under consideration um most of them at this point are are ones we can't take action on right away and and even you know and most of the ones that we have some some ability to do that is we have or will and there small you know differences at this point um you know I think an organization we're going to have to look more deeply at systemic kinds of changes um which are harder longer term kind of things but I think you know you just sort of look out at the the coming years and this will be part of the messaging we'll see you know barring significant changes in some Revenue sources uh we got to think about how we're structured differently and what that entails and and it takes a bit to think about those things that really um fundamentally shift the paradigms that we use um and those those take time and energy to kind of explore and and dig into and and evaluate um and think about what their impact are so it gets back to Bob's question earlier about sort of hey if we make this change of world language in seventh grade what happens three years from now when those kids start to get to the high school and want to take whatever it's like what what what are those impacts um so so we definitely want to try to to look at those kinds of of longitudinal impacts as well when we make those those reductions um TR I think if I got to the other points that I wanted to make on that front but um yeah we definitely I mean we look through you know and and try to find things there's you know there are you know needs that that we have to invest in um you know we have to continue to sort of work on and chip away at in much the same way we think about capital and wanting to spend regularly on Capital so that we don't get too far behind there are things we do in a similar way within our operating budget around you know things like evaluating curriculum um that we want to think of that in a similar way it's like oh well do we need to invest in a new curriculum for this uh does that have a a a a grant opportunity that allows us to and or does it have a bunch of materials that need to go with it that we're going to need to plan and budget for um so I think we we have to think about some of those things too as we go ahead is what what things do we need to do to stay uh in a in a regular cycle of of improvement C Hani so I I don't want to put words in your mouth but U something you just said struck me and it's part of sort of some of the questions I think we asked about planning which which it did I did I interpret what you said am I interpreting correctly that that that systemic logit logitudinal planning um around round Cuts hasn't been done and does that actually mean that the cuts that were proposed for the guidelines budget the 900,000 less than the school committee voted um that those cuts were not longitudinally thought of in terms of how those would impact budgets but not but not just budgets but the educational system and offerings going forward into the three four five years from now where they really just what's easiest to do in the here and now instead of a truly thought out plan over the long term knowing that this Cliff has needed a plan it did am I interpreting what you just said in is is what I just said sort of in the correct vein of the cuts that were proposed to the teaching staff were not were were potentially the easiest to make in the hearing now without necessarily regard to a four five or sixy year plan in educational philosophy planning and offerings in that logitudinal sense that you thought of of system you spoke about of systemic strategic planning and that hasn't been done with these Cuts is that correct so I would offer it differently I think I think that that longer view is a part and parcel of all the process we take all the time so I don't think it's we've been absent of doing that at all I think however um if you look at sort of Turnin Administration so that's a pretty critical piece when you start talking about um you know building level decisions when you have change in in Staffing it it's at the administrative level both at the building level and centrally that makes it harder to do them well and to have consistency across that and stability in those in those evaluations of longitudinal impact so I think it's a little bit of both so I think that that while we need to do that and continue to do that and it is something we always do I think uh have we done it at the depth that we'd like to have over the last year or two probably not um we've been we've been on to some other topics and had some churn in some staffing that that make it difficult to do that well um that's not to say it doesn't happen I think it just it's it's difficult to do at the deepest deepest levels would be maybe the way I would phrase that um so I think it's it's I agree and disagree with you simultaneously I guess is is so what I would say okay and sorry one one more quick then followup um if we were to fund the regional school budget this year with a but those logitudinal plans need done say or even if we weren't how do we how do we guarantee that that happens like like what how do we know that what's you're saying is necessary and needs to be done would actually be done well I think that's there's a couple things so certainly you know my expectation is if we hire a superintendent I'll go back to business office so I'm hearing this directly from you guys and so from from My Lens that's certainly a piece of the puzzle but I think it's also important for you guys to share that point of view with superintendent candidates and with a new superintendent because it's going to be critical for them to understand the context in which they operate and and uh get that feedback from from you know the sort of member town so I think it's a twofold piece I mean obviously I'm here I'm hearing it I'm thinking about it have been thinking about it um and and one of the advantages you know I mentioned earlier where you know there's some things that I'm still sort of carrying as a business official and you know institutional knowledge that kind of stuff and the skills we're building with some of my staff are going to be helpful for them to be able to kind of dig in and and work on some of this however it's a pretty critical conversation with the buildings and those administrations and staff uh in concert with a with with a superintendent to to really think about that um you know impact and and and strategic planning for for multiple years so I think sharing that with those superintendent candidates and asking those S kind of questions of them are are pretty critical Kathy the my question Doug I I feel like we've really put you on the hot seat but um mine is slightly off from the pure Regional budget um from my uh switching onto my hat of new elementary school is going to be grades K through five and the sixth grade is supposed to move up to the regional school and the there was an a designation of 500 an offer of $500,000 of arpa money to help smooth the way and what what I understood is some of that was going to go to redoing some bathrooms there might have been some painting some other things getting ready but the regional regions said not ready yet so what My worry is if you're not ready yet but the money goes away and you need the money next year where's it going to come from because when the new school opens up in 20 26 uh the plan is there isn't a sixth grade moving into it so I just don't know where that fits in the um overwhelming larger budget picture that you're facing for next year but this is a piece that's not that far down the road so the herpa money and I just want to end with the orpa money has not been spent yet it's been designated so it it hasn't gone away if the just and my understanding is if there were a fairly concrete plan of what to do with it before the end of December and most of it would be spent before the end of December 2026 um you we we can be using the orpa money so it doesn't mean it has to be spent um before and since the new school is supposed to open in September 2026 that money would likely so I just I'm hoping you go back and think about it I asked the down manager and he said if they said they don't have time to use it right now or they you know they don't have a plan for it but I think the town is in on the arpa money side has that onetime money to help with that um so I'll stop but that but that's both a comment and an with a sense of urgency about it because I don't want to find out a year from now we're not ready so physically yeah physically ready to bring them in yeah yeah so I think that you know the the ammer school committee is certainly U very keen to to to get started on the you know or or restarted on planning process and so I think we'll you know as a matter of fact one of the things I need to get done this week because they want to talk about it next Tuesday when they meet um a little bit is is sort of where we sit with sixth grade move and what that's going to take and and um not that we have answers to those questions but we know we have to do that uh we also have to consider simultaneously the the the merging of three schools into two um over the next couple years simultaneously with that so there's a whole host of those larger um uh systemic planning kinds of things we need to do relative to this and and so um you know if the arpa funds are available still um I mean it I'm in that they haven't been spent and you know a part of it was just with the um there was uh conceptually adding a million more to the Fort River school parking lot of solar panels because we had the million but that it turns out that can't go into the contract right away so I'm just saying that that money there's not a contract for it yet so if some of what you need for the sixth grade is capital money you know one time this needs to happen before they can physically move into the school I think um making that a high priority would be a good thing because our the town's capital budget is really tight um right so uh Bob is just been it's not like there's another $500,000 to be grabbed next year it's right it's in a deficit next year right now given the requests but in any case um I just wanted to emphasize don't forget get that piece of the larger puzzle and originally the thought was it might help with some of the enrollment and class size that if some of the sixth graders were taking a Spanish course were taking a this course or that course it's a few more kids in a classroom that might M make those electives viable umk yeah as we get back into to earnestly planning for that six grade move that's all part and partial of what we're going to be thinking about for sure thank you Andy yeah I just I was going to suggest to move this along um I really appreciate the amount of time that Doug has spent and um with us and um this has been a very rich conversation there are a lot of things that U have been happening within the schools Doug and uh you know I think that you got cast in the role and I'm so appreciative that you accepted the role of being the Acting Superintendent when you did um and it was just an awful time in just this huge combination of circumstances that we don't have to account because you know them and live them um but I wanted to thank you for um but uh I was going to suggest to the chair that we try and um cap the time that we're asking now of Doug and uh see if we need to get along to U public comment concluding our meeting yeah I was going to do that but thanks Andy so thank you Doug uh you can stay for coule comment if you want but you don't need to so I may step away but thank you all I appreciate the questions and and there's some of the same ones that I have and try to think about regularly so I I appreciate them and and uh and and I'll I'll look you may have those to me and I may have missed them in no no I'll get I'll get them to you Doug okay we'll get them filled out and and sit back to you guys as quickly as we can so you can can think through your your budget okay absolutely thanks thank you right so I'm going to open uh meeting please let Matt back in oh okay sorry whoever's here see Matt in the attend pleas I'm just I I think I'm the only one who was granted the power and I'm Mand did you still see him in the audience no I do not maybe he left I don't think I can bring him in then sorry I just wanted to make sure if he was still hear that we brought him in before public comment okay okay I see I see one hand and um it's a phone number so I'm going to allow phone number 413549 810 to talk hi could you please identify yourself and uh where you live just broadly speaking Yeah Vince o Conor 175 Summer Street in amest so I've I've listened to the entire meeting I have a number of comments and um I'll try to go through them as quickly as I can one I wanted just to recall to the finance committee my comments from last time about um competition the schools face competition the services provided by the town do not um you don't drive out of your driveway and decide well do I want to drive on the Amis roads or the Hadley roads or the belter town roads no we take we have to live with what we get from the from the town but the schools um if they don't provide the services and want they people go out elsewhere and that has really bad social impacts um as as more of the parents decide to put their kids in private schools and very bad impact on the the entire town so second I I just want to say about uh cooperation with ammer college and UMass that's really I think a multi-year at least one or two but probably two or three year deal that um really has to fall on the new superintendent and um and with regard to the chair's comments about wanting to understand the impact on the foreign language budget of the budget cuts I sapped through the entire public hearing that was conducted by the school committee that hearing was recorded um the comments about the especially about the foreign language program were very concrete specific um and um and they had a lot to do with the decision of the school committee uh with regard to the budget those uh that meeting was recorded it is available online and I would strongly recommend it for any member of the finance committee who wants to understand what the cuts the impact of the cuts would have um with regard to presentations I I I've looked at the 2018 finance committee booklet for the last town meeting and I really recommend that others do the same because I think some of the presentation material regarding the regional schools in that budget book um should be being transferred to the presentations uh in this in this time um both by the administration to the school committee and and to uh and to you all um I I do think that with regard to this budget that the finance committee needs to keep in uh in mind that have a new superintendent a new Middle School principal and um I think they those two hirings are essential for the district to function uh effectively and properly and I think nothing would destroy the district's chances of actually hiring somebody that to have the kind of draconian teure cuts that that will result from a reduction in the school committee's budget um so um and and I think in terms of capital things with regard to the town the region um I'm I'm at a loss to understand why and and I don't expect a response right now but to understand why um there has not been uh money forthcoming to to solarize the high school parking lot and maybe the middle school parking lot I just um given the fact that it actually leads to expenditure reductions in the out years for energy I I don't understand why that why money hasn't been able to become up been set aside for that finally I have questions for uh and and maybe Doug is gone but I think it would be useful for the finance committee since the house budget is out um there appears to be perhaps another 100,000 that will go to the region um between 75 and 100,000 and so I I think that's another adment that has to be made the budget will be I think be debated next week and all the school things I think will be settled by that time um and um and and so the my question for the finance committee which I think is something that the finance committee should really think about because the the question is on many people's minds is the the town reserves the the Regional School reserves are 1.1 million and they're going to use I think five or 600,000 of that for the for the present budget uh for the fiscal 25 budget um the the town the municipal reserves are over 20 million and what will remain of the seven what would be 7 $40,000 deficit I think is down somewhere in the six maybe in the 650 range at this point given the house budget and the question is what percentage of the reserves because I don't know the actual number for the um free cash and and other other funds that are available um what is the actual percentage that the regional school budget um ask uh above the the guideline budget um would be in other words is it uh it appears as though it's in the 3 to 4% range in other words that that one-ear thing that would allow a new superintendent to come in and try to write what I think has been a a rudderless ship for many years um uh would um I think be a wise expenditure of money um and with a clear understanding that what it can't can't come back to next year with the same problem but um there are transportation and administrative issues related to the last minute promotions and elevations that happened with the prior superintendent that are going to have to be somebody new is going to have to deal with that thank you thank you very much you need to wrap up your comments yeah so I will and I I so I would just I would urge the the finance committee to look at what the final number is going to be based on the house at least on the house budget and what percentage that would be of the the uh actual reserves of that are available um I think that's an important number and I think we could have a meaningful conversation if that number were on the table okay thank you um Maria please state your name and where you live thank you Maria kapiki South amorist I'm going to talk about a different issue um this past fall the finance committee and the Town Council held many discussions before they took votes to authorize $46 million for the library project one of the things that came out of these meetings was a cash flow analysis That was supposed to indicate when the town would receive and spend money since then a lot has happened and a lot hasn't happened but no public body is talking about any of it the construction bid deadline was set originally for February 28 but this deadline has been pushed back twice so far first to April 16 then to April 23 that's a two-month delay there have been 19 addenda so far to the initial construction documents the most recent posted today after the subcontractor bids were received and including multiple sections being replaced in their entirety potential biders have thus far submitted 97 requests for information when the decision about borrowing was made in the fall the schedule from the OPM showed a March 2024 construction start and August 2025 completion in February the OPM schedule showed a 3-month delay in constru ruction projected to start in June 2024 with completion in November 2025 this latest however was produced before the move to a temporary location was pushed out to miday there's been no discussion about what the financial impacts of these delays are subcontractor bids were also pushed back and were finally received last week there were no biders for the elevator so that has to be folded into the general contractor's contract and there was only one bidder for HVAC fire protection and metals for two others electrical en Roofing there were only two biders in the meantime the library has failed to meet its promised payment to the town less than 20 $250,000 of the 200 $2 million it said it would pay by January 1st was received on time and $900,000 remains in AAR if the remainder is not paid before the town has to borrow to pay for construction interest on those short-term borrowings will presumably be even higher than the more than 3/4 of a million dollars that was estimated in November this is a public project and the financial implications of all these issues must be addressed publicly but through all of these past several months to my knowledge no one on the Town Council or finance committee has demanded any updates and no information has been forthcoming the Jones Library building committee has met only once on January 4 more than 3 months ago multiple deadline shifts multiple agenda scores of rfis delinquent payments of almost a million dollars and our elected representatives and town officials are completely silent thank you thank you I believe MAA McGee please uh state your name and where you live Hi l oops I'm sorry i m run raise your hand again I removed the wrong I hit the wrong button here we go gotcha you're back back you guys hear me yes hi L McGee I live in belter town and I'm the Dana students at the middle school good afternoon mine is not going to be long um we're at a critical point in ammer uh I sit on des's racial and balance advisory Council we're able to look at demographic data from all over the state and determine whether schools are segregated or racially diverse and guess what ammer Regional Schools are racially diverse we are school system with nearly a 50% balance of white and non-white students and our students whether white or nonwhite are also tremendously diverse this diversity is why I love working in our school district I'm proud to work here even in the midst of the storm although I think being racially diverse is a strength we're probably at this point because white families are sending their children to schools elsewhere all of this diversity creates constant tension time will tell how we manage conflicts will the school system decline as is in the case with many communities white flight and the defunding of schools or will we move forward together which direction will we take in this extremely liberal town the first step is funding our schools give us the resources to do right by our students this year and then yes take the school committee and superintendent to task in managing the community's tax dollars efficiently we need threeyear and five-year plans that line up with our strategic goals and are fiscally responsible we have a new school committee who have demonstrated to me that they are dedicated to the best possible outcomes for our students I'm certain they will work lock step with our new superintendent to root out inefficiencies in the budget develop Community Partnerships to build excellent educational programming and seek out grant opportunities I'm sure the regional school committee will use whatever means necessary to maintain the quality of our schools but today my friends they need your help cutting the budget at this time of transition and Regional leadership will be disastrous and thank you for listening thank you for your comment thank you very much and I apologize for throwing you out without a bringing in thanks very much um uh Mr Conor did you keep your hand up now I I see one more um Vince's hand is still up but I see one more hand went up that hadn't done it Cunningham yes please bring Tony in thank you Tony please uh state your name and where you live thank you Tony Cunningham district one um so I wasn't planning on talking but I I want to Echo and and plus one to what Maria Kiki said about the library uh it's it's kind of shocking that there hasn't been a building committee meeting in over three months and none of the financial implications have been discussed about many of the things that Maria described and also plus one to what Vince o Conor said about the schools um I agree it is a highly competitive market I have a child in the middle school right now and another one in Elementary in the public schools and I mean I these Cuts do make me look elsewhere uh the language one in particular is is going to really be devastating to the middle school program and I I really think the cut that was made a few years ago was devastating making seventh grade only one semester of language so the seventh graders really don't make much progress now and if the same thing happens to the eighth grade they're going to be starting with level one in ninth grade meaning they're starting at the beginning so anything the town can do to find funding to prevent these most harmful of cuts would be much appreciated um as I mentioned at a town council meeting recently many of the increases are beyond the control of the regional school committee they don't control control the Chapter 70 increase being 78% they don't control health insurance going up by 99.74% and so making the students suffer as a result of some of these increases is really not fair and I know the town is struggling too but there was a decision made to give 10 and a half% of property tax levies to the capital budget I think that decision needs to be reversed and and scale that back so that we can retain uh the school S at the level that we expect thank you so much thank you for your comment I think that's everyone is that correct Kathy I don't see anyone I think that's still Vince's hand that didn't go down so he's already spoken okay all right well thank you I think we'll close public comment now um any other comments from the committee um just just a couple Bob you know in terms of looking forward we had a a discussion but not a resolution on um how we're going to handle the budget you know talking to departments and one suggestion that I think Lynn sent you later was to get some advice from Paul that if we want if we want to focus on some but not all or or clusters um so I've still got uh twice a week for all of May on my calendar you know from original so it would be good to try to um get to some clarity on the meeting schedule and who's coming in when and uh if we re can we repeat to Doug what Mandy asked for and then I asked for again it I think getting more information rather than less when we're dealing with really big budget items I.E Regional School or Elementary School um we've been getting less and less over the years compared to the very first year that I was on the council and when I go back to pre counil some of the documents that the finance committee produced for the town meeting had information in it that I don't think they had to go do research for I think they got it during their meetings um particularly on schools um you know I won't and and if you know the the town manager's budget document has almost nothing on the school you know so if it doesn't come out of flow out of us it's it's absent so that's an issue then um the comments that we heard today on the library I've been hearing them a lot from residents on what's Happening so it may not be Finance um but just on a a a scheduling it maybe feeding this back up to the council to to get a report on it um because it's the the the contingency plan and the flow of money on the library was based on a certain schedule um so I I know for a fact because of jcpc that the major bond has not gone out yet because the conu until the cons the bids come in we don't know whether we they're even going to come in at at the at the limit so so just I don't think that's necessarily finance committee but feed that information on up to the council president um to figure out where in or otherwise packed so I think that's my main just trying to get a better handle I mean the the meetings are already booked on my calendar but just getting a sense of of how many and how we're going to focus would be great yeah I I I actually talked to Athena a little bit about this and we um I I am going to try to map out you know kind of what we had talked about and see how how it works and then we can try to figure what what where we want to focus in on on in detail on the budget so and I'm right next week we just have the re it's not a just but the Regional School hearing but um but um if you send us something tentative and ask the comments just to come back to you Paul's back next week so you know we can we can maybe firm this up a little bit more okay any body else uh then I need a motion to adjourn I make a motion to I move to adjourn I second okay um let's just go around just Andy yes ammy yes Kathy yes cancel haniki hi it's unanimous Jed we're adjourned at 5:54 pm thank you every thank you everyone