was here. So that's >> all we're recording. >> Good afternoon everyone. Today is the May 26 meeting of the finance committee as we continue our work to review the budget that the town manager, the
schools, and the library presented to us. Um my first order of business is to make sure that everyone on the committee can hear and be heard. So I'll just call out names as they see them on my screen. Councelor Breick >> present.
>> Tom Porter >> present. >> Lynn Griezmer >> present. Kathleen Mitchell >> present. >> And Sam Mloud >> present. >> And uh Joe Jane has told me that he may
not be able to join at all, but he'll definitely be late. And Anna has told me that she won't be able to join. So, we are everyone who we expect is here. Um, and I'm just going to double check to see if we have public Sean.
Uh, >> Sean, you're muted. There's no >> Oh, there is now. Sorry, there is now. Kathy. >> Okay. So, we we have one attendee. Um, and so I I think maybe it makes sense to do public comments at the beginning of this meeting and then we can get on to
today is uh the goal is to vote uh to do a discussion and a vote on the water and sewer rates with related um amendments to the regs that go with that. and then to do a general discussion of key themes or things we want to bring out in the
report um whether it's department specific or larger um and I've started an executive summary and then we can say what the statuses of waiting for additional information so if every with everyone's permission I'd like to open
it up to public comments given that um to make avoid having the person have to wait till the end. We are open for public comments. People are not in their head. If you would like to make a public
comment, please raise your hand. Okay, seeing no public comments, I'm closing public comments. And I just want to let everyone know that um uh either yesterday or it may have been Sunday night, but yesterday uh we received a
memo from Deb Leonard and Brid Bridget Hines providing some additional responses to question we asked from the school committee. And then um about a half hour ago, I got a follow-up memo providing other and I'm just going to send them all both to you tonight so you
can be looking at them and we'll put them in the packet. Um uh they it's it's it's it both memos go further on describing to us what happened in the budget process you know and and what the rationale behind decisions.
So, um, the first thing I would like to do is, uh, talk about water and sewer rates and hopefully vote on them so that we can do a a memo to the town council. And everyone has in today's packet the
proposed rate increases. And what we'll be voting on is two things. to recommend or not recommend recommend that the council approve the rate increases and then to recommend changes into the regs that go with those rate increases because the rates are built into the
regulations. So starting with um we didn't we had a partial discussion of this uh during the DPW review and I know uh the DPW um and uh enterprise fund folks looked more
into this. So I'd like to open it up. Are there any questions or information uh that they want to make sure is in our memo or they found missing um on the proposed rate increases or general statements about the proposed rate
increases? Lynn, >> I I have no problem with either the memo or the rate increases or the bylaw. Um, I have been asked and want to make sure that in the conversations as we go
forward into future years, we explore whether or not it would be appropriate to charge the higher ed institutions who are our biggest users with a a higher rate than we do residents and whether that would be allowed and whether
there's precedent for that in any other communities. and with the understanding that if they were paying a larger rate for usage, they would also be contributing to the enterprise fund and the enterprise fund
for both of those actually is what pays for major repairs. Okay. >> Okay. So, we could include that in our memo to the council about this. And I just want to let people know that um
several years ago we started a conversation like that and there were um two potential ways of doing this. The size and I'm going to use terri not very good technical terms but the size of the
intake varies for very large buildings versus smaller buildings. And you could do a fixed rate per month charge for that that varied by that denominator. We don't do that but varied substantially. And that would uh
do all three education systems and but it would also do the large uh apartment buildings, you know. So it it it would affect all of those. And the one of the rationale and some communities do that. One of the rationale for that is that
fixed rate helps you when use goes up and down. So you're not as dependent on it. So it in a way is reinvesting in the infrastructure that we have to maintain. So we got hit quite uh severely um
during COVID when everyone shut down because we otherwise had to go into reserves. You know the the rates we'd set were dependent on use. Um and so so that was one route and then Sean we started a discussion whether there could
be a classification called education there definitely there probably can be one called commercial but it was not clear whether we could do that distinction Lynn um it just wasn't clear we didn't get an answer to that um so
just for everyone knows they do pay right now because they use a lot of water they pay a lot so the revenues to the fund are substantial from UMass Ammerst and as we saw from Hampshire. So I can write something about that but Lynn I think it's a good idea that we
had that discussion well in advance. Um and the memos we've had is there is going to be some discussion of rate structures in in in any way with sewer but I think it should be with water as well. Kathleen.
>> Yeah, that was my question is that I the FY26 budget had money in it for to to start this rate study, right? To look at the the rate setting process um and the and the potential different types of rates structures that could be set up.
So, it would be great. I think I think the information we have is that that will be done and ready to set the rates for FY28. So it would just be good to um to mention that and and the importance of having that done in in a timely manner so that the information can be
used for next year and and Sean I think in timing wise it needs to come to the finance commitment well before we get to setting the rates. So if there are, you know, I just mentioned two possible options in the um
water fund. The the memo we have has called block rates and other kinds of issues. Um and I don't know how much that affects water as opposed to sewer, you know, but to the extent we're going to have choices, we we'll have to have a
memo early enough with presentations that um are understandable. You know, we had I will try to find the exact date of the finance committee meeting, but we had a a pretty substantial presentation
to us on uh different ways of approaching this from I think it was Tai and Bomb Bond >> Tig. Yeah. way back way back when you know it was you know we had asked about that and there was a presentation and one of the issues at that point was the
way DPW's tracking system and uh billing system was working made some things more difficult than others you know so it was a it was an internal capacity but we we asked at least once after that what ever
happened to it um so you saw it and the and the and the think Kathleen it's been to to to be still coming. Um so I think oh so I will draft a a paragraph on this um in a strong re recommendation.
>> Can I just say one thing Kathy? >> Sure. >> Um >> yeah Guilford uh he's got a he's working on the proposal to specify exactly what we're going to have done but we do have a partner that we're working with on this. Um, and yeah, we'll need it done
early enough because if there's going to be changes, we would want to communicate those changes to our local partners well in advance because it impacts their budget. And I also just wanted to highlight the interconnection between this and strategic partnership agreement
discussions as well. um the university, you know, they view all their payments to the town as an expense and whether it's here and water or sewer or if it's through a strategic partnership agreement, um you know, they're all still payments to the town and expenses to their budget. And so I just want everyone to kind of keep that in the
back of their head too that if there was a dramatic increase in the water and sewer side, you know, one logical um connection could be made on the strategic partnership side that, you know, we might not be able to make as many changes as we hope to make or there could be some pulling back. So I just
want I don't want that to be a surprise that that happens. And so Sean, in in the specs that Guilford's doing, can you do I can resend you. It was a memo Bernie Kubak and I did on the >> Yeah, I remember that memo, but if you have it handy. Um >> yeah, I I can find I I actually
resurrected it and shared it with um Kathleen and others, but I can send it to you. And it was because uh Bernie Kubak who was a former member had been in a town that did this, you know, so he knew a fair amount about the I'm talking about the dimensions of the inflow.
>> And and I think the key with all this is just making sure whatever we come up with is really connected to whatever whatever we come up with is really connected to the size of the university and additional costs that are generated as a result of the size of the university and less about just trying to find ways to shift costs. I think if
it's if we can articulate how because we have to provide water to the university, it requires us to have, you know, two additional water sources or something like that, I think that's a more compelling argument and um understandable to the university rather than I think sometimes it's been framed
as like how do we, you know, get them to pay more. Um I think that's less, you know, less of a strong argument. >> No. And and that's the pipe dimension issue was because of the eb and flow, you know, that it it completely threw everything off. Lynn,
>> just as a reminder, Sean, when is the uh partnership agreement up for renewal? >> So, we're either in the I think we're in the fourth year. So, I think we have one more year, but we were we would start negotiation discussions fairly soon. I think we're heading into the fifth and
final year, but I'll but we can get I'll confirm that just to be sure. >> Lynn, the other question you asked, but in a different context. It was when we were talking about um large developments in town and if they need if they need
substantial investment in bringing a water line to the site, not to from the road to the site, but retooling the sewer line. Could should we could we have something whether it's an impact fee uh you know whatever we might call
that built in um that that would be have to be paid by the project. This issue came up um when there was a proposal in Lever for a very large development which would partly be on Ammeris but they had no water and sewer. They rely on wells.
So we would have had to extend our system up into lever and we didn't have a way of thinking through billing that costs. So Lynn I'll don't know whether it's impact fee incident fee but sometimes some towns have this and you
have to price it out. So we could also mention that um that that's more in the where would that be? That would be in the general bylaws or or fees wherever you put this Sean. Um I found at least
one town that has this in general, but they have it one for water and sewer, one for police and fire. You know, they they and they've had to the state requires them to justify the rate, you know, based on expected expenses. It
can't just be we'd like more money. Yeah. And it's not for just development within Ammerst, but it's should a community like Lever or Shootsbury want to connect for whatever they would have to pay the impact fee >> and it's called, you know, and that
would be a buy into our system, right? >> Right. And I think the issue is coming up with the right term because there's some terms that are not acceptable as I recall from some previous conversation. >> Right. So, so I'll just I'll try to write it conceptually rather than you
know to avoid those who are illegal and um you know the state of Vermont uh has legislation at the state level that allows municipalities to do this um without hoops. Um so the University of Vermont pays a substantial amount as
does any new development. Um so in any case I just thought it's another we could just mention it. um for uh the cost of bringing something to a new site or someone buying into our system. Any other comments? I mean, and
this would all be in a dis the discussion part of the memo. It would be otherwise be related to the rates. >> I'm I just clarify uh Kathleen, you said it was in the FY26 budget. I think it's
in the FY27 proposed budget. I think I think it originally had been in the budget for this year and they haven't gotten to it yet, but maybe Sean can has the definitive answer. I just recall that it was it was I think in last
year's um information on the DPW budget, it it indicated that money had been allocated for that and it just hadn't I don't think it's started yet. It sounds like it's in process of working with a partner from what Sean has said. Yeah, I can clarify it. And not to confuse this
with the the wastewater um facility study which is separate. Yeah. Um the other thing I wanted to build into this um was in response to a counselor had asked about you know adequate staffing and so we got the
separate memo from um Paul about adding a skilled uh equipment up. Uh so just say that these rates are covering uh adequate staffing and have already built in the expected wage and benefits
increase that have been negotiated. So, I was just going to add that and refer to the memo. We got two a sep separate memo from Paul on uh what we've done to uh stabilize the staffing that works
with these very expensive systems that we have. And then my final note is um when I when we asked Guilford about uh the major expenses that are in the future for sewer uh what was going to happen to
rates he said large increases but depending on how much we do. So I I think I would just you know put that in you know that this is this is not the end of where this is a a modest rate compared to last year. Kathleen
>> and did he say that the that the sewer um stud the wastewater study was or the sewer stud that that um is 18 months that it would that's the timeline. So it would be still some time before we we see that right?
>> Yeah they um they got started a few months ago I believe. So I think again it's probably not going to inform the next budget cycle but the one after that is when it would really start to kick in. there might be some early things that he, you know, I'm sure he'll pick up um that could influence the FY28 uh
capital, you know, planning process, but I think it's really the one after that when he thought it would all be, you know, fully released >> and and he and he has said more than once that what they're going to come up with options on how to phase it, you know, so if there's something that's
urgent that needs to be, you know, so uh we'll presumably get that. Um we we funded we funded a fairly substantial amount for the study the assessment um last year.
Any other um things to bring up? I I'm just this is all these are my notes for I'm willing to draft the memo. Um I have last year so I'll I'll just re redo it. Um anything else? So then I am going to make a motion and
um I'm I'm going to make a motion that the finance committee recommend that the council approve the water and sewer rates as presented and the accompanying necessary changes
to the regulations. >> Is there any further discussion? No. Then I will call for a vote. Kathy is a yes. Councelor Breick. >> Yes. >> Tom Porter. >> Yes. >> Lynn Griezmer.
>> I. >> Kathleen Mitchell. >> Support. >> And Tam Mloud. >> I. >> It's unanimous with three counselors. four counselors supporting and two residents supporting
with one of each of those absent. And I will write that more eloquently than I just did. Thank you. And I I'll send a draft to people tonight. Um and if I don't hear a
response by the end of the day Wednesday, I'm going to just send it on uh for the council packet. And this will be on the agenda for a first reading on Monday night's council meeting. Okay,
great. And and it'll it'll be a little bit more technical because we do have an order FY27-10, but I'll do that accurately, Sean, for for Athena's sake. So now I I want to open the floor to a
more uh I guess the a beginning discussion of any major crosscutting themes that people saw or any department specific and I'll leave leave education off for right now come back to it um
that we should emphasize in an executive summary um and each of you wrote different sections. So, as as you might have seen last year, one of the things we we ran into is stress and staffing
issues and inadequate expense budgets in AC kind of it was across the board. There were some exceptions to that. Um, so that's the kind of uh cross cutting um things I'm looking for.
Kathleen. >> Yeah. I mean, I think one of the one of the major issues is that the operating expense budgets that have been held steady for so long are being brought up to, you know, starting to to be brought up to levels that that cover actual
costs and that seems to have started with the DPW budgets and, you know, with the intention of moving beyond that in subsequent years. So, I think that would be important to highlight. Okay. So, it can also hark back that
there was a response to what we what we recommended, right? You know, that that started to improve any any other observations just a comment. Uh that's department by department because there are many, you know, for example, general
government, there's no increases in operating. So, uh I Hopefully the readers of the document would recognize that uh >> there's a plan there but it will take a number of years. Yeah. And Sam, the the individual
writeups make that thing. So, I think I'll write it that though some many departments are stilling still living with flat uh flat expense budgets or um and we heard from some but not all that these are inadequate to meet expected
expenses because some said they can live with it. Um so I'll I'll do something to that. I guess the other one um I was struck by the tone of the fire chief which a fire in EMS that really was applauding what
had been done. So last year it was a talk about stress and people uh you know out on sick leave and you know a lot of things that we were working people too hard and make and so he was saying this is a really good start and he he is
endorsing the what I think is a three-year plan at some point. Um so I think recognizing again um that was the council asked for an enhancement in that area and um there was a response. So I I
don't know whe to me it was it was a highlight of something. I didn't know how um uh congratulatory that conversation would be as opposed you didn't go far enough. Um, yeah. >> I don't know if this is uh falls into
what you were thinking, Kathy, but uh and it may uh be similar to what Kathleen was uh referencing. Uh there was a recent uh confirmation of the uh union contract
for the DPW. And I think that that is worth underscoring because uh as of now all of the union contracts have been uh negotiated and as many most of us here
know uh that was no uh uh simple pro it was a you know ongoing process with a significant impact. So I think that that work should be referenced. >> And so it may be, you know, to do it that that the hope is that this will um
uh uh reduce the high turnover rates and increase retention, you know, that that the hope is that that's what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. >> It it would be great to see uh if it parlayed into highway staff being vacancies being filled, although I I don't know that it's specifically
related to that. You know, I actually thought it was extraordinary. The budget book had it, but also when Guilford Namy were talking about it, um to have a third of your staff leaving and having to interview for all those new positions and then having them leave again. I mean, it's not only does it mean people
can't get the work done, but it means you're you're pulling down people who have other jobs to constantly So, so hopefully that will um that will change. Um Okay. Jill.
>> Yeah. I wonder if we had kind of started to talk about this last meeting and then um it was sort of cut short because it wasn't on the agenda, but I wonder if there's a way to add something some sort of guide guidelines or guidance for
counselors um around what we can and can't do. I think in this process I I found, you know, being a new counselor, I I ask a lot of questions, but I found a like not always getting the same answer depending
on who I ask and and also I think even some folks who've been on the council for some time might not be completely clear on what the real hard and fast parameters are. So, I would appreciate that. I'm sure the public would and I'm I'm sure the coun counselors would too if we had
some way to just like outline this is what we are able to do and this is how you do it um in terms of what they're going to do with the information from this report because I think that really saves a lot of time and and effort if you know when you know when
you're consuming something like this what you then can do with it. Um, just my two. >> Okay, Jill, you know, I see Lynn's hand is up and I'm trying to figure out where we put that in, but that's going to guide also our votes um on on the it's
it it's both for the readership of this. Um, so we have a short paragraph that was in last year's that um and and Lynn, I'll call on you and so I think you're asking it for something more. Um, so Lynn, go ahead. I I I'm glad Jill
brought that up. Uh I also think that along with that should be an understanding that we only pass a bottom line for schools. We and we can say whatever we want, but we don't
control line items for the school budget. So I can verbally give my understanding and then Sean can uh Sean andor Athena and Paul can. So um once we have the
budget, the town manager's budget, we can reduce items in the budget as proposed with the exception of education. We can't increase with education being an exception. If
there is a a a recommendation to increase, we have to be able to say where the money would come from in out of the budget because we're already at the limit of the tax levy. So, it can't just be um we have
excess tax levy and that would be specific to the items in the budget as opposed to reserves or free cash. Um so, Athena and Paul and Sean, did I in lay person's terms state that correctly?
>> Yeah. And I think the only thing I would add is you can't reduce things that are contractual or like you can't reduce state assessments. You can't reduce our retirement assessment. Um things like that, >> right? And that would be debt debt service as well. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Debt service as well. >> Yeah. Jill. >> So, one of the things I was unclear on is in terms of reducing there is the line item municipal operating budget and then there are line
items that are more you know for departments and then obviously then cost centers. Is it true that we can only recommend a reduction of the highest level line item
or on what what level can we does that apply to? >> Um I'll let I'll let Paul Athena um because our understandings may vary on this. So Paul is it you know can we go into the public safety budget as opposed
to the entire municipal budget? Um and this would be irrespective you know on if we weren't in an issue where we might want more money in education it would be in general could we say no no no
we recommend a reduction in X um so with what so how much below the municipal budget as a total can we go I think is what your question is Jill Jill >> so I can go um CH you can jump in if you want. >> Sure.
>> So you can reduce the municipal budget. There's there's a single line item for that much like the schools and you would say suppose you wanted to get rid of you know our uh you know department of anthropology if we don't have one but suppose you did uh and you say I really
don't think that should exist anymore um and so I want to reduce it. you would reduce the overall budget by that amount and you would say your intention is to see that department removed or reduced or whatever it is. Um, and there's no
requirement that it be that way, but I think it would be very clear what the c if the council voted that what they're why they were reducing it. Um, I mean it could be like, oh, we can't reduce it for this, that, or the other, so we're going to make this other change. But in any case, the budget would have to be
reduced by the amount that you voted to reduce it. I'm not sure if I made that clear or not, Sean. >> Yeah. And I'll just say so it's all about the cost centers with which you manage the budget at, right? So the cost centers with which the council has managed the budget are at the um
municipal operating, elementary schools, regional schools, library, capital, um OPED, retire, you know, all those and that high level um budget summary that's and the order in the back of the budget book. Yeah. Right there. Um, so those
are the cost centers that the council has managed to budget at. Similar to the schools and the discussion we had with the schools, which if if the council were to give, you know, $500,000 more to the schools and it was put into one of their cost centers, the school committee could indicate the, you know, the intent
of what they wanted that money to be used for, but ultimately be up to the superintendent to use that money within that cost center. Um, and so it's a similar analogy to that. there was a reduction to a cost center. Um the council could indicate what it wants the reduction to be for um but it ultimately
be up to Paul to enact that reduction or decide you know within that cost center how what he thought was best. So it all it all depends on the cost centers with which the council manages the budget. And Sean just to put it to make sure that everyone's on the same page about what cost centers mean. That's the lines
within this order number 2704 would be the cost centers of the operating budget. Correct. >> Right. >> So it it that's Microsoft on the screen. But >> could you increase it? >> Yeah. But you can see it. Anyone who wants to see it, it's in the budget book
on um as well. It's the >> This is from the order that the council actually votes um when you when you approve the budget. If you want to see it later, it's page 294, which is the last page of the budget book, but it's it's that same setup because when we're
voting it, we're voting the enterprise funds and all the different pieces. Um, >> and it's really just the the raise and appropriate column. It's not. So, you can reduce enterprise funds that when it um that wouldn't it give you the money
to increase the schools. But in that raise and appropriate column, those are the the the ones that you would look to reduce if you wanted to free up money to increase the school uh allocation. >> And and what I might do, um I I might try to write this up and call it
guidance um and have it be separate from the report. But Lynn and then Jill and I have a a question on one other item. >> And one other quick thing, Kathy, what you don't see here, Council Brevik, um there's actually another order for capital. >> Yeah, there's also part of here.
Theoretically, the council could also reduce capital, not the debt, but the um the capital allocation is in it's order 2405, I believe. Um so that's one that wasn't shown on that screen that you could also reduce. It's a little there's a few more steps involved because we
have it as a separate order. Historically, we've had it as a separate order, but you could achieve the same effect um with capital >> and >> and and would it work the same way, Sean, that you say reduce the capital budget and here's where we'd like you to take it from.
>> Right now, it would be to reduce the capital budget, the the cost center for capital, and then the town and again, you could say what your intent was for that reduction. um the town manager would have to you know take that into account and decide where to make the reduction. And if I if I can add before
you move on, Kathy, that the the vote quantum for the finance committee's recommendations, it's just a majority a vote to reduce across center as a majority vote of the council when it comes back to the council and then a vote to increase a school the school
line would be a twothirds vote. >> And and Athena, did you get clarification? Is it twothirds of the full council or twothirds of the people who are there that day? >> There was just a the MGL law is doesn't
say you know what what would our so it's just a question you know on >> I I think that I have that in guidance. I think it's a twothirds vote of the full council but I can confirm that. >> Okay. So Lynn and then Jill. So looking
at page 294, uh, retirement assessment we can't touch, right? >> No. >> Okay. OPED, we can't touch. >> OPED, you could. >> Okay. Because >> it's discretionary. It's an additional
contribution towards our unfunded liability. So it's it's theoretically discretionary. >> Okay. Uh under municipal operating budget it we can only really do municipal operating budget. We can't do the subcategories.
>> Um you couldn't do again the way we manage our cost centers it would be the municipal operating budget. >> I mean not that we can't send a signal about but okay uh we would we could reduce library we could reduce elementary debt service would be
contractual >> right? You can't do debt service. Um, but you could do capital >> and enterprise funds. You can't do >> no. And you can't do the regional school assessment because I think we last time we discussed it was they've already got three out of four towns um that have
approved it. So even if we were to reject it, we were still on the hook for the full amount. So that wouldn't be an option either. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Jill. >> Thank you so much. Okay. So, and then Sean, the one you when you we're talking about the capital improvement
program as well, that's just this one here at the bottom, 2705A. Is that what you >> The 4.2 million is like the cash portion of our capital, like the the non-deption of our capital plan. Yep. >> Perfect. Thank you. And and Athena, I just wanted to make sure I heard you correctly that so to decrease you, we
just need a majority on the council. It's to increase that we need the two a twothirds. And then you're going to get back to us on if that's full or attending. >> Correct. >> Cool. Okay. Thank you. And then just one other question in terms of if
has there ever been a situation where the town manager has not gone with guidance the guidance of the council and or what would that process look like if there was some you know legitimate reason
that the town manager could not follow the guidance since it's not a requirement. What does that process look like? Um, I can speak since I've been on the council since it started. We've never had this situation. >> Yeah.
>> So, when you're asking on a what could happen, we we literally have never had this. And the nearest I can say is um on a when you're in a position of recommending the JCPC process. It's an
advisory committee and we have at times uh recommended against a project that was proposed to us that originally came up and the town manor has almost always I think always with you know minor
around the edges uh gone with the recommendation but we've never had in the since the town council was seated um uh this the potential so Paul. >> Yeah, I think I think it really speaks
to that we try to make the budget process very collaborative and so that's why we have the budget coordinating group. It's why we have the joint capital planning committee so all the parties are in the room talking through what the values are and things like that. Um there's inevitably going to be conflicts on this. Um but again what
I've always said is I try take my guidance as best I can from the town council and but also I have to run the town as the executive the CEO of the town. I have to make sure I can the town operations can function. So, never say never, but I do try to be in comp in alliance with the the town council.
You're the you're the chief elected officials. And so, you know, in terms of our process on the finance committee, um when we when we get to uh the votes around the budget, you know, we we we
have um the financial orders are in today's packet and also in uh the packet for Thursday, but the financial orders will read like what you've just seen. you know, an amount for capital with X dollars, an amount for the municipal
operating with X dollars. Hopefully, we will we can on Thursday, I'm hoping we can just vote on the the regional school. Um because it's I don't think there's any. So the other orders if we
don't want if we if there is a motion to say not to vote for the full amount or to vote for more than the education budget that was in we will discuss that and vote on it and then we would also discuss and vote if there is uh and
whether or not there's a majority in either one we we would report out the result of that discussion um you know So, so the the council motions will have to, as I understand it, separate the
two, you know. So, it can't be we want this much on education and we're going to fund it with that much from over here. They're going to have to have two separate votes with the understanding that to do an increase, one has to find the money. So, I'm just trying to say,
you know, we we can be uh more uh fluid in the way we do that. >> And and that's an important point, Kathy, just to highlight is that the again the reduction vote is a majority, the increase vote is a twothirds majority. So, there could be a situation
where one happens and then the other one doesn't and then we have to reconsider the first one. Um just so everyone's aware, >> right? or you could do the twothirds vote first and if it failed you don't ever have to do the you know in anyway I would have to let the president of the
council figure out how to sequence that. So, I just want to say one thing more. Um, the the uh draft of the budget doesn't currently have the elementary school in it. And I'll I'll send it to you tonight. Just I
I'm I didn't want to send it this morning because I pulled everybody's in last night and I was too tired to proofread it. I mean, really too tired to proofread it. So, um, what I did do is get everybody's font to be the same font. Somehow, miraculously, everyone
used a different font. It wasn't just a few. So, I did get everyone in this I think everyone's in the same font at this point. Um, which was great and more or less a similar style. Um, you know,
on and and then I did some edits just where I thought missing information. So, I will get that. But Lynn on the educ elementary school didn't want to write it up because we have so much we have multiple pieces of information we don't
have yet um and inconsistent. And so we also heard um and we sent through Sean hopefully we sent one more question. Um we heard over the weekend or I heard over the weekend and I shared it with people that there's been a
decision instead of eight sixth grade classroom seven and so the question is is that a budget savings in chestnut you know um with with a teacher plus benefits and we still have the outstanding so within the what I call
the 3.85 85 budget. Um, is there some money that is a savings on that? And if there's less space, is that a savings in the lease because we're we're leasing or renting less space. So So we I I don't
know what the answer to that is um one way or the other. Kathleen. Yeah. >> Yeah. Obviously, you you want to wait for the official confirmation from the school district, but my recollection from the school committee meeting was that it was a reduction to Chestnut, but not a reduction to the elementary budget
because that teacher was needed elsewhere, but obviously the superintendent will confirm or or correct that. But that that's my recollection from the school committee discussion. >> And that other the elsewhere wasn't already included in the budget. I think
it's an additional elementary classroom being added to I thought I think Amethyst Brook was my recollection because of a large grade um over there. >> Okay. >> So, as I said, we just we thought we should get confirmation one way or the
other about that on whether there is any and as everyone knows there's 69,000 and change um more in the budget that than the superintendent. So, that is there to work with too. And then we had a question about the custodian in the
Chestnut Academy because it she it doesn't show up on her list of costs and if it's being negotiated as part of the lease is that position you know so it was these kinds of questions that affect um whatever we're going to talk about
Lynn just to be precise it's 69,371 uh just uh But but I also wanted to make sure we understand and that is we can only increase the education budgets. We can't increase other budgets.
Uh so we can reduce other budgets but we can't increase them. It's only education and that's based on state law or a charter. I can't remember which >> it it's it's our charter says that. >> Okay. >> You know our charter very specific. So does so does Northampton. I was and and
we can't shift money you know. Not only can we not reduce, we can't say take a little here and move it over there. Um we c, you know, so uh we we cannot do that um in this process. Sam,
>> thank you Kathy. Uh yeah, I I wasn't able to attend the last couple of meetings, but I in hearing what you're saying now and previously, uh it seems to me the uh the areas of most uncertainty relate to the schools. Um,
and councelor Brevik's uh questions uh were ones that I think are uh beneficial responses to anyone listening, which is what can we do and what can't we? And am I understanding
correctly that it's being indicated that we can raise potentially uh the school budget 69,000 or >> it already has 69,000 in it, >> right?
>> It already has $69,342 in it. >> Let me rephrase it differently. Uh what are the limitations regarding changing school budgets? We can only vote an increase in the
total budget that is in the town manager's plan, which for elementary school, if you look at its line, is $29,487,590. We can only say we want to increase that by X if we
say where we would take the money from. uh regarding the elementary school budget you're referring to. >> Yeah. So, it's I think the elementary school budget is the only thing that's in in question. The regional school voted on and proposed a budget that fits
directly in. So the issue is the elementary school >> Mhm. >> voted the the school committee voted a budget that exceeds the budget that is in the town manager's proposed budget which is a balanced budget. It has no excess
in it. So we can only vote an increase in that if we have where we would take the money from a recommendation on where it should come from. Uh I believe I understand what you're saying and the the I think the key information point for folks who might be
listening or even in attendance is uh if I understand correctly, you're indicating that quote unquote free cash is not something that can be voted to increase the elementary school budget
even if it's in a separate a separate category and would need a different you know two appropriations. If I understand correctly what correct hearing that that is that is correct >> it's town money but it cannot be voted for this budget because it's external to
the uh fiscal process as a >> just in terms of how that then goes. You know any pulling money from outside the budget would have to have a financial order. We'd have to do a budget hearing. we would have to, you know, it starts
the process again and we're um and we need to have a budget by June 30th and you'd have to put post a notice. But yes, we can't we can't pull it from outside the budget as as presented. That's correct.
>> It it would it could be done, but there would need to be a budget hearing. Is that what I'm understanding? >> You we can't do it. We we can't do it. We >> the council can't do it on its own, Sam. So, the it would the town manager would have to submit an order and then it would have to go through that whole
process. Um and and there's concern about the time it would take to go through that process. >> Okay. >> Um and the town manager would still have to agree to that that would be something he would do. >> So, if there was were individuals who wanted to do anything along that line,
they'd have to simply make a request for a recommendation to and it would not be for the town council. would be to the town manager if I understand correctly >> and and and the qu and then there's the question the timing Sam you know we >> none of this can be done we did do a budget hearing on May 11th you know so
it it is we're down to the wire on that so I'm glad you asked that question because it's literally within this what you see on the last page of the budget book it's those line items that we you know so it's pointed out um that there is it's not that there's no room there
is some room Um and uh and and then the other point that Lynn made and so I want people to have heard that is the most where if we consider doing this finance um or not um and I must say that I'm not
yet convinced that there isn't money in the bud the elementary school budget um you know be that there's more flexibility if we were to do it. We we are not going to be able to say where that money what that money should buy.
Um, it is just a dollar amount and we have literally no control on where it goes. And then the school committee would have to re right now it would the superintendent would make a
determination and uh her priority list in the memo that was sent to us wasn't necessarily the same list as what was voted on. So the school committee would have to wrestle with this, but it's would not be in our control to say where
the money should go in the school budget. and and to be belabor the point I guess but I think it's helpful for anyone listening uh if that were to be the case beyond uh the the 60 even if it's a 69,000
to underscore it would have to come from a different portion of the existing town manager budget >> that's what I've said just go back to our development our development >> this is for this is for everybody body listening.
>> No, I'm just saying the 29,478 already has 69,342 in it. >> So, the schools have some leeway. There's but that is $52,000 short of the D amount that the school
committee voted if you subtract that off what their vote was. So, it's short of that vote. Um so just in terms of the math on this and this is in the beginning write up on terms of those numbers. Um so the budget that was voted
was 572ish,000 above three and then the 69 lowers that but it doesn't lower by very much. That's already in the budget. That's already in the budget. So someone over in the school committee and the superintendent can figure out where they
want to spend that money. Um >> Kathleen and then Jill. >> Yeah. I just wanted to ask if there's an understanding of when the lease is going to be finalized. Like what is the timeline? What do we have an expectation of when that number will be known?
>> Can I respond to that, Kathy? >> Yeah, you're I think you were the only one with any knowledge. >> Paul um and actually Deb's in the audience. So Deb is the um Deb Letter, chair of the school committee. She's the representative or the Ammerst school
committee and ne it's really a kind of a negotiation between the regional school district and the town/ele school committee and Deb's the representative of and working with Paul and I. Um so we have a draft lease
agreement and we have um a figure uh and we have square footage of space that would be leased. And so right now we're kind of working through the the nitty-gritty of exactly what the final amount will be, what are the spaces, because the spaces, how much square
footage we lease impacts directly the cost. And the cost in the first year, we have this other pot of money that it will pick up, but in the second year and years beyond, um, it'll be a cost to the town andor elementary school committee all, you know, it's all the same. Um,
and so, so we want to make sure whatever we sign up for at the beginning is really reflective of of what the Chestnut Academy needs. And, um, and then there's, you know, it's a, I believe it's a multi-year lease, so whatever we agree to as a base. There will be some factor of an increase every year to that base. So, we just really,
right now, we're just really trying to hammer out, make sure the square footage and the rooms and all the spaces that are are in that agreement are exactly what Chestnut Academy needs. And it's a little, you know, there's some gray area because there's some shared spaces and how do shared spaces get factored in?
Um, that kind of thing. And Sean, does it is it once you the square footage gives you a ratio and then are you applying it to things like cafeteria, custodial, utilities, you know, the the >> I imagine it's not I I this is the
region's lease to calculate since they're the they're the lease lessors or um and so they're calculating it, but that's my understanding is that maintenance, custodial um you know, all the operational costs are sort of the the basis that then a percentage is
being applied to it um for what Chestnut Academy will use of the building. >> Okay. >> And and the and that and so once you do that, that's a cost to the elementary
school budget in FY28. But >> yeah, but it would hit FY28 the operating budgets. FY27 would be covered under this the transition money that was approved. >> Okay. Councelor Breick
just had a clarifying question on the conversation that was happening just before this question on um the free cash because I to Sam's question. I'm just wondering it's my understanding that the free cash for this year is done. We've already allocated that. The council
voted on that. There's nothing even if we wanted to go through the motions to which I understand would be laborious. It it's it's my understanding that I don't think we could do that. Am I wrong? >> So we keep 5% in free cash. What we
appropriated in the fall was everything um or maybe it was early winter, sorry, early spring. Um what we appropriated was everything above the 5%. So the 5% is our financial policy, but the council could go below 5% if it wanted to, if it chose to.
>> We still have the ability to go >> Yeah, that's our own that's the town's financial policy is to have it as a reserve, but um you could theoretically dip below that 5% if the council wanted to. >> So the council couldn't inotiate its own appropriation, >> right? It would still have to come from
from the town manager. Yep. So the council all that the council could do in and I'm not saying this with any motive. I'm just just trying to understand it. The the only thing the council could do in in the realm of capital funds surplus reserves would be
to reduce the capital improvement program with then maybe a recommendation to incre to use the next round of free cash or >> Yeah. And you could reduce the capital improvement program with a request to
the town manager to submit a financial order to use free cash as a substitute, for example. And then it would be up to the town manager whether or not he wanted to do that. But the the reduction could go into effect. It's whether or not he submitted the replacement order would be up to the town manager.
>> Right. So the council action would be the reduction of 2705A. >> Okay. Um and then just on the Kathy on your point about the schools and I think that is it's really important for people to understand how much we can influence. I think it is
helpful to see and have the the school committee providing so much information that really gives us a good lens into what they would be would recommend that the superintendent do with any additional
funds. So I think I think while we can't direct it specifically, we do know we do have a pretty good sense and I don't know if it's like this every year or this is you know it seems like pretty elaborate information on what they would
then be recommending um if we were to allocate more funds to the schools. >> But definitely because their option too specifically back. So we we can talk about that and we can reference the memos. All I'm
saying is that we it's out of our h if we should if we should go higher, it's out of our hands what that actually buys. Um and then it's over in the superintendent and school committee um
uh world. Uh so you that's that was the only point Lynn was making you know that we we can we can know what was voted on March 31st you know and everything has been a moving target as Kathleen just
said you know we uh we on May 7th we heard we definitely needed eight classrooms in sixth grade now it's seven because they need one more in fourth grade so there's a there's there's an evolving story is one way I would uh uh
uh frame this. And some of that dates back to redistricting decisions on where kids went, which happened, you know, that's driving how many kids are in each of these schools. And the schools won't know precisely how many children they
have um until school opens, you know. And I I didn't pay attention on whether they voted or didn't vote to keep uh school choice open. I mean in choice if you close choice down it only affects uh
uh the pipeline. It doesn't affect people who are already in the school. So Sam >> uh thank you Kathy. Um yeah following up on the the comment regarding how the funds can be used in the school. Um, I
at the time made a note and put an asterisk next to the superintendent's comment in our prior meeting when the school budget was under discussion where she on a few occasions the superintendent clearly indicated that
the determination of where funds would be going if from this budget would be hers hers alone and it would be based upon what uh was determined to be the needs at the time. I believe it was in the context of a discussion regarding
general budget and interventionists. Um, I did I I saw the questions that were sent to the superintendent regarding the discrepancy in uh numbers of interventionists and specials from the
comments that we received from school staff uh versus the representative amounts from the superintendent. And I did read today's answers to finance budget committees from the school committee. Um, I don't
know if we heard back from the superintendent's office regarding those issues. I think it's >> Yeah, that's why I said at the beginning, we have no information back yet. Yeah. >> I I think it's uh informative regarding
the inform informative context uh regarding the discussions. U Thank you. >> And that's why we don't have a draft right now. Lynn, go ahead. And then Sean or maybe Sean has breaking news. You have breaking news. >> Well, no, it I was just I wanted to clarify because it was discussed a
couple times. So, if the council were to adopt the the number requested by the school committee, it would be based on the cost centers approved by the school committee. Um, and so, and I think again that we can get confirmation, but I believe that original vote was for
specials and interventionists. So, it would be whatever cost centers those two positions are in. and have to double check where they where they live in their budget. Um, in order for that to then let's say the ultimate determination was for special education. Um, the superintendent would have to
request a transfer to the school committee to move those funds into special education and then the school committee would have to approve that. So again, right now based on the recommendation of the school committee, if approved, those funds would be in the cost centers. the school committee voted um and they would only get into different cost centers if the
superintendent requested a transfer and the school committee approved it. >> Lynn, >> um so I want to um step back from this and just um ask a couple questions that are related. Okay. Have what have we
received any more updates on the cherry sheet? We continue to receive the new versions that work through the um the Senate right now. So, you know, I can pull them up if it's helpful so folks can see what
the latest um estimates look like, but they're they're always estimates, right, until they're voted. Um and even the numbers, you know, for example, numbers that were adopted last year, we had to make some changes because the final governor's budget was different. So, um so yeah, we continue to receive updates. I think the Senate proposal is the
latest one which is better than the House um and better than the governor's uh but ultimately where it lands we don't know yet >> but the Senate has not passed their budget. Correct. >> Let me double check. I think we have estimates um but keep going and I'll see
if the the cherry shoot is >> and until they pass it conference committee won't meet >> and that's my point is the following. There's a one big unknown and about the state budget that unfortunately we have
to pass our budget before we will know that um we may get some hints where if the if the house and the senate are the same in an area generally the conference
committee just goes with that unless there's some huge brewhaha or you know earthquake What we don't know then is whether the governor will go along with that. And again, generally if they're the same, they will. So that's number one. The
other piece and I actually sent an inquiry on this. There was a supplemental I believe back in March or April. I think it was using the millionaire's funds and it included some money that when passed that supplemental is assumed
to apply to will to be used next year. Some of those items are in education like circuit breaker etc. And we again I don't believe the schools or the town have been informed about the amounts for
that supplemental. So there's one of the problems that we face every year. This is not new. And that is we have to pass a budget before we know what the state legislature is doing and before we have
a final cherry sheet, which is the state's communication to us as to where we stand on the budget. >> So, real quick, this is the so the the Senate Ways and Means does have their budget released. So, there's is the one that was improved upon the House. You
can see the total. This is the receipts for the town of Ammerst. >> Enlarge it, please. >> Oh, yeah. Let me see what I can do along those lines. Uh, control plus. Is that better? That make it bigger?
Okay. Um, so you can see FY26 cherry sheets the first column. That was the final governor's budget. Um, so was our final or sorry our final state aid budget for FY26 is uh in this first column. What the governor proposed and what our budget
for FY27 is based on is here the 11.4 million. Then the house budget came out which was a not a good development for the town and everything kind of went in the wrong direction. Um, and then the Senate budget came out and it's a little bit better. But this is only the receipt
side. Then you have your estimate side which is constantly changing as well. Um so the the big thing that swings in in all this that even if once we have the final numbers it still can change is our charter tuition numbers. Yeah. >> Our charter our charter tuition can have
pretty wild swings. Um and the amount of reimbursement we get can then also swing wildly. So even when we have a final number, ultimately that charter tuition number is what impacts, you know, how close everything else is pretty static, but charter tuition and school choice
continue to change throughout the year. >> And Sean, when you flash from receipt to assessment, the receipt, the Senate looked really good on a couple items and then the receipt for charter was a couple hundred thousand. You know, it
canceled it, Lynn. you know, so it's not only does it fluctuate, but it can erase gains made on another line. Um, >> right, >> you know, so >> can you place this in the packet since it's been shown at a meeting? Thank you.
>> Sure. >> Kathleen. Yeah, I just some unrelated to to this just can I go back to something that I think we should mention somewhere? I just think it's important to mention that the that the costs for Wildwood are currently not for the town
or not factored into the budget last for next year because as we're you know as we're talking about spending a lot of time talking about whether to allocate more money to the schools for their operating budget and the ins and outs of that. This is essentially a $150 to
$200,000 addition to the town's operating budget for next year. That's just going to come up belatedly. So, I just think it's important that that's acknowledged somewhere. >> Yeah. So I I I've written that into the executive summit, Kathleen, and I can't,
you know, I think we can't overestimate it because we're uh Sean has figured out, I think, an artful way of dealing with it in year one, but that that it it's another one of these year one's okay, but year two is not going to be
okay. And we're moving the recreation department out of the middle school. Uh so the building needs to maintain be maintained at a level that there are people in it. Um you know at least some people in it. Uh so absolutely.
And Sean you had told us um I'm just I checked my notes the other night that you know you potentially have some older capital uh appropriations that could be closed and you could move the money into
this is is is what I understood. and why it's it's not in >> at least for year one. Y >> at least for year one. >> So it's another one year year one is covered but year two is uncertain that uh and then it's also uncertain how
long that goes on, you know. So it's uh you know we meanwhile are allocating $100,000 out of the capital budget for a convening an ad hoc group and starting to talk about you know could we redevelop the property for housing
property taxes partially for some town services. you know what are the we don't know what the options are and trying to move that fast but those processes usually take a couple years you know minimum to to both reach consensus and
have it move from an idea to uh reality and I I was really struck I wrote up the uh the planning and conservation section but I was struck by how long the projects have been taking
you know when we have town land It kind of even even when we have an idea what we want to do with it, it's it just is still one one is one affordable housing thing has been waiting for two two rounds of in unsuccessful applying for
the necessary state and we sunk a lot of money into that as a town both in uh giving property to to the works and buying a piece of land. So, you know, so it was a a real investment with a payoff
down the road in both housing and it'll eventually pay back on the property tax roles. So, it's the these moves slowly, I guess, is an understatement since that one was the year I f was
first on the council. Um, so a long time. Anything else? I mean, we've stayed on the the general side. Um, so um on on and I'm we've we've
spent an hour uh I think and and Jill in in turn in response to yours. I will try to draft a one pager on what you call guidance to to say in writing what we just said verbally and then double check
it with Paul, Athena, and and uh Sean to make sure I got it right. um so that we have that both in our document but for easy for other counselors to see. So to on Thursday um we're meeting at 3:30.
What I'd like to do is see if we could take up the regional budget right at the beginning and vote on it. um to get that vote out of the way and then focus hopefully with a full draft on what what we want to do with the elementary
school, you know. So, it's what do we want to do with the town budget and and the uncertain factor is the elementary school and have a discussion with motions that I will then write up so that when we come back on Tuesday, June
2nd, there'll be a full write up where we've already had a discussion and potentially have voted or at least um we describe the votes so that people can read what's written and vote on the report. if if that you know so it's to get as
far as we can on Thursday basically. So if if anyone is planning on doing something with the municipal budget uh to say an increase um be prepared to be thinking about what that is and where it might come from so we can have a focused
discussion on it. and Lynn will do her best to write up this missing section. And if we don't I guess if we don't get uh more information from the superintendent and the finance director,
we'll just have to write we have conflicting information on certain section. You know, we'll have to write it in a way that we have we weren't able to confirm or or not confirm this and we have conflicting information. So, we'll have to write it up that way um if we
can't resolve it. So, the other thing I realized Go on, Kathleen, and I'll I'll >> No, I was just going to say I think Thursday's meeting is on the calendar for 100 p.m. I think. >> Oh, it was Thank you. Good. We didn't need to stay. Thank you so much for
that. I prefer one anyway. 1 p.m. Thank you. So, the other thing I realized once I took everyone's sections and moved them in this this is a long report. So rather than doing an appendix with all the written responses that we received which is also voluminous and that didn't
even include the school the superintendent's written responses that in the um we'll refer to the packet for that um with a clear label and we'll make sure the June 2nd packet has that
all those written responses in it the superintendent and then the information we've been getting from the school committ So that'll be in the packet. So then we can reference it in our report with a link to say see this, see that because
it would be overwhelming to put it in in this, you know, this report is running in the well over 25 pages. I mean, we can cut it down maybe, but it it's just too long um to add it. So we talked about a nice simple appendix, but that
appendix is not simple and it's very meaty. Um, so people, lots of people did what we said is referred to it um rather than repeated it. Lynn, uh, this actually pertains to Thursday.
uh and um maybe um I'm just not remembering correctly, but I believe that the other three partners in the regional schools received an official memo asking them to vote for the
regional budget and recognize that the base for this year is is increased for next year because of how the regional budget was augmented using existing funds. Do you have a copy of that memo, Sean?
>> That was >> I do not, but I can request one. I I was unaware of the the second piece, but >> Well, it and the reason I bring it up is because um at least one town
alter did not vote it that way. Um, and one of the questions for us, I assume, is that we will vote the regional budget this year based on what we're going to pay in FY27. >> If Anna can pull up the financial order,
Lynn, that's exactly what we do. We put the dollar amount in. That's it, >> right? Okay. >> You know, the budget and our dollar amount. Yeah. >> Okay. So my question really is, do we want to address this issue this year about the difference for next year?
>> The assumed difference by the regional school committee are for next year. Um, I think we wrote a sentence on this already. And my view, here's my here's my view is the regional agreement,
the region has not yet seen the rent payment from the town of Ammerst for the sixth grade. When that is added to the budget, it more than compensates them for that $150,000, you know. So, they're getting they're
getting an influx of money next year. you know that that it that is you know so I don't know where they're going to put the money but they could reserve it you know they could they could hold on to it >> so in other words you are suggesting
that we should basically mention this but not try to resolve it with any kind of vote >> yeah that's thank you >> you know and the financial order that the town is presenting us with is a very
the total budget is 38 million and the ammer share of it is 20 million. You know, whatever the number is, that's the way it reads. Um, and it doesn't me mention that there was an alternative base that was lowered by this one the
excess that they had for the one year. Um, so we we we can do it. I think the way we've worded it takes care of that, but we'll we'll see. I mean, when people get a chance to read it, Sean, the original order we had, um, the original
thing from the the regional committee had this bizarre wording in it, you know, that here's here's your amount, but here's your alternative amount, you know. Um, yeah. So, any any other issues? I mean, it's
219, so we have time to continue. So, I'm I'm just wanted to um make sure we were clear for the uh discussion we're going to the more focus. I think the big issue is the elementary school and otherwise um there haven't been major
any I haven't heard anyone raising questions about areas they want to cut in the budgets they heard about Kathleen and then Sam. >> Yeah, I just wanted to confirm you're going to add to the packet the information you received from the Amor school committee, right? Cuz because I
haven't seen it yet. I might want to make sure I see it before Thursday. >> Okay. And did I forget to put I I sent something through this morning, but maybe I forgot to send it to to put your >> Yeah, I don't think I've seen it. I'll double check, but if Yeah, if you could just add it to the packet and then it's
available for anybody who wants to take a look at it as well. >> One memo came in and then what it would called an amendment to me the first memo. So, I'll send both of them through to everyone when I get off today's thing, and then I'll have Athena put them both in the packet for Thursday.
Okay, Sam. >> Uh, thank thank you, Kathy. I just wanted to uh I'm glad, Lynn, that you brought up that uh question because I had it in the back of my mind as well
regarding the discrepancy. Uh it seems to me that it's something of significance that uh uh as long as the communication is provided one way or another uh for the uh subsequent years
base uh that it's it's it's good to have that raised at this point in time even if just in a commentary. Um, and separately I want to uh thank Kathy for
just I can only imagine the amount of uh effort, work, detail, focus, and not to refer to us the wrong way
metaphorically hurting cats uh to uh try and pull this together. I it appears to me to just be monumental and I'm very impressed with uh uh your efforts and uh capacity uh and
endurance. Uh that's just a comment. >> Well, thank you very much and we can see at the end of this year who wants to be chair of finance next year. But but just just so everyone knows, I spent a lot of my career working with the federal
budget uh as an advocate. But um and juggling numbers and trying to make things come out to a hole is something that um I get totally into. So yes, it's it's been this is this has just been
more difficult in a good way. I mean, I think the the uh innovation we've made of trying to get questions to people in advance where they can give us long answers provides insights into what our departments are dealing with that we
would never have any other way of getting. Um and it's unfortunate we can only do it in the budget cycle, but um you know, one example I had is is in the police responses on what it means to be a first responder. I think I mentioned
the two anecdotes they did. I knew the person that was falling down. They everyone thought he was dead where the police were the first to arrive and did CPR and he didn't die. He's he's he's ended up having triple pass. Yeah. But
anyway, he didn't die. You know, just thinking of you don't think of the police being there first. Um and and so I thought uh people took a lot of time on trying to give us insights and and DPW talking about a labor market where
uh tough manual labor may be uh a barrier even if even if pay improves in terms of uh if who what workforce is available. I mean, I think these are things that the people on the ground know that we wouldn't know if we didn't
have these conversations. So, >> yeah. >> So, I I think it's been a um you know, so Jill, in addition to whatever else we end up doing with the budget, I think um people have been listening or who reading this will get a sense of uh the daily life of a lot of our staff uh
across the diverse departments um which is which is a good thing for all of us. I'd also like to extend uh thanks, compliments, and appreciation for uh uh the input and responsiveness of town
staff, Sean in particular, uh which is exceptional. uh and thank you for being on top of of challenging situation providing our committee uh so that we all and Kathy in particular can uh
work quite hard but the input is and the information the timeliness of the responses uh very impressive thank you all >> yeah know it's really department heads that do most of the work and it did make me you know when Anna brought up earlier in the year
you know, doing this process now versus doing the fall. I I didn't have as much appreciation for her comments, I think, as I do now. And how, you know, if there was a way to get some of this information to the to the council before the budget guidelines are set, it, you
know, it might result in, you know, more robust budget guidelines or more, you know, full context budget guidelines. So, um, going to keep thinking about that with Paul and and Anna and Kathy about how maybe we incorporate something in the fall.
>> That'd be great. You know, and and Sean and I have worked on sort of a draft of once we get out from under this crunch, you know, opportunities at either the July money meeting or the August meeting for this kind of bigger thinking that's
not around a financial order. um to trying to think through improving processes, flows of information and that includes you know anything we have to say about the budget book you know being difficult or easy to use.
So with this uh nice positive note um I I um I will uh I will probably once I proofread I'm going to send the draft to everyone and I want to incorporate the observations people made to highlight at
the beginning in the executive summary. So I'm going to make sure I had those and then you're going to get something that doesn't have elementary school other than a beginning two paragraphs in it. um and has drafts of everything else. And I will send to everyone, I'm
just making my to-do list. Um I will send to everyone those two memos we got from the school committee and I will get a draft on on water and sewer rates. Um and if I don't hear from people by the end of the day tomorrow, Wednesday, I'll
assume it's okay and uh send it on um to just get one thing off off the list. So, is there anything else people want to raise today? Oh, and and then the last thing was the guidance the guidance
piece. I may not get that ready, Jill Jill, until um Thursday, you know, but write up what we just heard verbally and because I want to make sure I don't uh write a sentence incorrectly. So, are we good? And I I have to thank
everyone. I you know the the you all did a great job on getting information in soon um in a timely way. Um and uh hopefully the edits I didn't do track change edits. I just edited and put it
in. Um the one thing I'll I'll do a comment Jill on one of the sections in the side on why I shortened it and and you can we can have a discussion about it. um you know so and uh everyone will
be able to read the report and say if they have any problem with any of the writeups as well. So it won't be just a focus on elementary. It'll be a focus overall. Did we miss something um that we should be picking up? So are we good? Um and should I make a
motion to adjurnn? I make a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Kathy is a yes. Jill, >> yes. >> Tom, >> support. >> Lynn,
>> um I excuse me, >> Kathleen. >> Yes, >> Sam. >> Hi. >> We are adjourned at 2:28 and I will see everyone at 1:00 on Thursday. Thanks for the correction. Bye.