##VIDEO ID:cl3S6Eqk1-s## do you want to make any of us co-hosts what Lenny Athena do you want to make any of us co-host sure I'll be hanging out with you but I can make you a co-host and frea is still in Germany yes I didn't hear from him so I think he's being good and off email um and for him yeah we will we'll let that that go um we're all set go ahead thank you so much atha okay so I'm going to call this meeting of go to order happy New Year everybody uh it is Thursday January 9th at 6:31 p.m. I'm going to check to make sure everybody can hear and be heard starting with Pat d'angelus present thank you Lyn grimer present George Ryan present and Athena thank you so much for joining us and I am also present um we are missing counselor ete tonight and that is absolutely okay he should take his time off so uh we are going to start our agenda starts off with public comment we do not have any members of the public with us right now and so with that let me pull up the things that I meant to pull up before the meeting um so the reason why we're meeting today is to touch base one last time about the goals and just to we've taken some time away from it hopefully everyone has taken some time away from it um to revisit these and kind of go through in anticipation of the conversation with the council to try and get this um as honed I'm going to say as it can be so that when we present it to the council we're able to have a constructive conversation that doesn't necessarily mean that these goals are going to be well for my this is my my thoughts on this process y'all can go in whatever Direction you want which you will do no matter what I say anyway but uh I think that what would behoove us is to go about this process not trying to just say what goals we want in there because when we get to the council if someone wants a goal in there they're just going to move to add it so we should at least try to look at the goals that are in there to make sure that they are meeting what we believe is a helpful kind of format right so meaning they're actionable we can look back in a year and know exactly what was supposed to be accomplished or if they are broad know that any movement on them counts as a checkbox um to make sure that they're I'm trying not to lapse into my whole like work speech about smart goals but basically that's what we're going for here right we want them to be specific um enough so that everybody knows what they're talking about they need to be attainable or part of them needs to be called out as attainable within the year uh and we need to know what completion of that goal looks like so I wanted to look at the goals from that lens um and have this discussion as a group and then I also wanted to spend some time putting together an idea um I talked to Lynn about this uh earlier today to to talk about what Go thinks might be the best use of the council's time at a retreat focused on the goals so the goals the way that we're doing them this year really are uh it's different right they're they're a lot less kind of vague than they've been in years past the formatting is different yes but even the way that we're specifying the action items is a bit more granular than we've been intentionally because we really struggled looking back at the goals to say have we done it have we not so when we get to discussing them as a council it can be really hard to have that discussion in the middle of a normal council meeting when we have a ton of other business and there's all these items that we really need to up down or adapt right um so go talked just this is refresher go had talked about doing this as a retreat and really having the goals be the focus of a of a retreat day um because the goals are also the council priorities in many in many ways right they tie so I wanted to with this committee kind of think about what might a retreat focusing on these goals look like uh so that we can bring something forward that isn't that that's been brought forward by at least four counselors right uh as as a plan or a proposed plan and then the council president can do with that what what they wish um how does does that sound good that's I mean that's the agenda so as the directions we will go but does that sound like an okay plan in terms of how I'm conceptualizing that and are there any questions Pat yeah I think that sounds like a decent plan I went through today and these are minor but it feels like within specific goals some things are scattered throughout that are connected and we might want to it's it would be very simple cut paste put them in some kind of order that's minor and I just want to that no no no that's super helpful thank you any other questions on kind of the plan of attack for today okay and we might not I'm not even going to say we might not need to go the whole time I'm just going to say we we are where we are all right um I'm going to pull up hang on one second sorry the number of documents that start with 2025 Draft Town manager goals I just want to make sure I get the right one um all right can someone else ask a question while I'm pulling this up no no when's your birthday if we take long enough it could become the 2026 down manager oh gosh golly G Willers oh my God how do I download this thing but that's not I mean comments are also fine sorry sorry sorry I'm still trying so you imagine we will take up the the the second Topic at the end of our review of this document namely how to approach a retreat that that would be that was that was my thought um if that's okay with you all right okay so um I also am G to try to pull up Lynn did you say that Kathy sent her comments to you as well would you mind pulling those up and I can pull up the main document and I might have us switch those tasks in a minute but we're going to see if my internet cooperates with me today I'm not screen sharing yet I know Pat I can't uh you're muted but so so we haven't seen Kathy's goals or are they already integrated they are not already integrated I got them pretty recently and it as I as I recall can you hear me as I recall um I think she commented on the old goals Okay so I'm pulling all of that up right now yep Pat you're oh yeah I'm sorry so is this her her document with her integrated or not no this is just the document that was in the packet okay I missed this one I was working with a different one so I didn't see the battery energy oh no that comment I didn't see that comment this part yeah yeah that's it's fine comment I just didn't okay yeah see it so I don't know if I've looked at the same one okay well as we go through we'll we'll no that's okay let's go through um and kind of revisit here with this lens of is there anything that we anticipate the council wanting to add I know that there are going to be things in here that we discuss ultimately I think that's where the conversation about the retreat comes in um but just making sure we've kind of covered what we need cover um yeah goad you let me know when you want me to share anything from Kathy was there anything on Kathy regarding climate action let's just go Section by section it's going to be difficult um on the one that says take action related to climate action adaptation and resilience plan is that still in ours we have that as the objective okay she said potential change to take actions listed in the carp plan by applying for Grants to support Energy Efficiency in apartment complexes and install solar arrays on public buildings building roofs and school parking lots okay thoughts on how or if to well aren't those in the carp plan I don't think that level of specif specificity about school buildings and parking lots is um particularly that end part I do think that we had the conversation uh a couple times about the applying for funds as being sort of a given um both within the carp but also within the like fiscal responsibility so I think that part is kind of covered I think it's that last bit yeah and it's pretty specific could you reread that last bit Lynn I'm sorry absolutely um by applying for Grants to support energy efficient I think she means efficiency in apartment complexes and install solar arrays on public building roofs and school parking lots think my question sorry my questions for that are um kind of the every school every parking like I I've I've my questions are kind of what does that actually look like within a year um the way that that's written feels to me like we expect them on every single parking lot and every single school and I don't know that that's feasible but if it's a if it's that area of of wishing that area to be the priority is solar can I um I think that we didn't we kind of suggest that the whole issue of applying for Grants should be throughout the whole thing and therefore should be mentioned above that would make better sense my thought yeah and so therefore um wasn't it in the financial guideline I can't remember it's been like a month well the final guidelines that's I thought but I it might be in the financial goals too um it could be inserted under number one of policy goals I sometimes it's just given that's that's what we do most of our most of these kinds of projects are by applying for Grants we're kind of saying something that's already um right I mean we can put it in if we want okay maybe wherever possible I again I thought that we were going to do that kind of a broad thing because it's it applies for it applies for everything yeah let me take this out and and um okay hang on could there be something it's down in the in the boxes not not up here unless it unless we want to try to put something in here it seems to me that if you went back to the beginning um what sorry that's right uh this is good this is goodna I think yeah I think it should be there across the board you know or and then if I mean cuz she asking for specific funding for Energy Efficiency in in complexes right so now let's go to here and see if in the listing of any of this so the the work towards multif family um like it used to be called Deep energy retrofits they've shifted a little bit in their goals uh but this is something that is in the carp so um I think the question that Go's been wrestling with that we've been wrestling with is can we have a broad objective and know that that means the town manager May pursue things that aren't necessarily itemized as a goal because we haven't been able to itemize it specifically but he still has the latitude to do it knowing that we can't necessarily not demand but we can't necessarily say it's a priority out there if it's not listed in an action item and my kind of other side of that is can we we say it's a priority if we can't even identify what it is which feels challenging right so so for me I think that what Kathy's talking about is covered under the carp work in the objective and the town manager could pursue it we are just not putting it as the priority um sorry we are not putting it as a priority I'm at the disadvantage of having all these different documents up but yeah I think that we should go with what we just did and in a retreat see if Kathy is satisfied with that okay um and I think what we also can do is when in that Retreat when we explain the objectives kind of say what I just said in in better phrasing of like the objective is giving permission to pursue anything relating to the carp it's just we expect these three at a minimum action items more is great but these three are what we are expecting to be done in the year right does that make sense it's also a good example of of a specificity where I think many of us feel totally unqualified to judge one way or the other I mean these are all great ideas but why should they be prioritized over a whole of other great ideas which I don't certainly don't have in my mind at the moment and so again that's the concern I would have with that kind of specificity here um is we leave this up to uh staff and uh unless there's some very specific and solid case for why it should be you know this particular site in this particular project um I think we just leave it up I I think I think George and and George I think honestly the the kind of messy answer there is that as the elected body we do put our priorities forward and if the majority of 13 people says it's a priority whether or not that's wise that's kind of how this process works right is like if most of us say we really want to do something whether or not statistically it should be the thing that's done it happens and so that's kind of how these goals work in some senses too luckily for us we have Town staff who can help us to prioritize um or committees and in this case a committee helped us to bring some of these forward um and and so for example this middle one seek climate leader Community designation was brought forward a on the recommendation of staff so there are things it kind of is a hodg podge of those three of like counselors would like to do this and can convince at least seven other people six other people that they want to do this staff pitch it as a this would be smart to do or a committee pitches it and a counselor decides to bring It Forward from there well all of these counselor have brought forward um Lynn uh yes I um I'm going to just take a pause I'm going to go get a second computer where where I can pull up her St so I can be looking at everything together W okay thank you sounds good while L is pausing uh these this right-hand column we put in uh before in terms of just kind of right now this is serving as a reference to the council more than anything else I think when Paul does his self-evaluation this will be where he marks whether this is in progress complete Etc um but for us this is really more of a helpful tool in terms of a is this something we put in for the first time or is this a carryover from prior years um we have not finished filling it in I'd like for us to do that today any questions on this first climate action then we'll move on okay oh do you have a question Pat Uh or comment we have criteria and priorities and transitioning Vehicles Etc it would be enormously expensive should there be any reference to um budget finances or or is that would be part of the criteria I think that was part of the criteria um my understanding here was in the past Year's goals we used to have start the transition and this year we shifted it to tell us what you need and what the priorities are in order to make that transition um so that we can actually set realistic expectations um that that's my understanding I'm very I will say I'm very excited about this uh electric Municipal vehicle presentation at MMA no the just the presentation at MMA because I've been on poor Guilford is so sick of me um talking about electric snowplows all right uh uh okay I know we're waiting on Lyn and we're we'll come back we will Circle back if she has any other questions but Community Health Community safety and social justice this is where I did a lot of moving but I don't know want to deal with that now or ini yeah let's let's deal with it um initially I had been putting these in alphabetical and then it got lost when we kind of reshuffled things but tell me about your because it doesn't need to be alphabetical if things are grouped together it makes I didn't notice that it was alphabet but I did on on there's there's complete streets and breaking up social justice issues and stuff so what I what I did was put um The Crest I think Crest is first okay yeah so what I I made an order where it's Crest uh reviewing Public Safety protocols youth advocacy MH programming the youth for Youth Empowerment uh resident oversight and then I felt like it should be um Senior Center and then move to complete streets and the bike plan because those are those are connected so I don't know whether this is important to do or not or I'm wasting our time but it just it was I felt very bouncy reading it through okay so we're going resident oversight and then Senior I know this is not I know this is probably driving people nuts that I'm doing it but just to and then this thing got so messy and when we so sorry you went to complete streets and then well the complete streets and bike plan ended this whole thing well I think you were looking at a yeah I was looking at a different sheet I'm see you but I think we can get there from here so we had okay so what I had is press Y and then I went to uh and you have and then I went to protocols Y and then I'm gonna put pause for a second I'm going to then put this one work with the council to identify and propose revisions okay y I will have to fix this later but just for right now yeah yeah and I apologize no please don't apologize I okay and then I in the way I wrote it out and I have um programming for the Youth Empowerment coming up before that one though would uh okay wait well let me look protocols yep but this provide training where would you want that one I think it kind of fits maybe after Youth Empowerment probably yes did I not put that in here it might have been one that wasn't on your copy Oh I thought it was okay no no that's a good one and it's important all right but it should be separate it should be above complete yeah it will be I'm just gonna last time we tried to do this I hate doing tables in word um but that's where we're at so it got all messed up with um yeah with stuff so and I apologize I really I didn't please do not apologize pulled up bring thoughtful comments okay so um in before we leave climate action um a question was raised um under the um status column for the first item why we have this listed is new right and it doesn't seem to be new but it's not a big thing but if it's new why is it new seems to be ongoing right yeah um my understanding I don't know how I got another thing here my understanding of this one was that it is phrased like in the past we've just had do the transition and so it's it is new in the sense of we're asking for the criteria and priority ities versus I think last year it was start the transition I don't have last year's document up but I can I can look so we could just say adapted oh yeah why don't we do that that makes more sense all right I'm finally in business awesome and on the and unfortunately Kathy had a bunch of comments but they were again to the old goals okay we will we will do what we put them in late leave we'll deal with it at the retreat no come on really no I don't disagree with you it's just we will also still be at the retreat so we will still have to deal with them yeah I know but it's I know something about the the van being too specific didn't we get rid of that one um that's under Community Health Community safety right the van is scheduled for five days but has had driver shortage she said delete too specific I don't think there's such thing as too specific um but didn't we debunk that isn't it George didn't we um look into this and it was three days a week and you wanted to up it to it should be five days that that is my understanding that it's not five days a week but okay three is I'm going to leave it for now and we'll confirm it I'd rather do that than have to put it back in later okay uh let me mention she also said delete we have not discussed and this would require staff time the noo entity is a commission oh she's talking about the youth um so again this would be where a retreat we are going to discuss it I think that's how these goals need to start functioning um otherwise we're in a chicken and egg situation perpetually so I think leave it in and let's have the discussion she suggested that we the streets and the pedestrians and bikes into those two different things those are two different programs they should be separate complete streets is through the state yeah bicycle and pedestrian is through the town I also I'm go ahead sorry she suggested one action item for the senior center hang on one one second Lyn go ahead was it yeah oh you want to wait yeah I can wait go ahead Lynn that's all we're treading very close to me having to do hand this the creation of the resident oversight that's not a new goal it's is it is not new that might have been an error in transcribing okay because we could I don't know yeah it's a carryover is carryover one word or two one it doesn't it's fine okay I get in a whole fight earlier today about bimonthly and semimonthly so I'm I'm all up in arms about words today um oh so could we go back up to the top here yes we can are you do you still want to go up to climate action George no I think climate action we're done all right all right in the first item conduct assessment of the community responders for Equity safety and service crust program um I'm going to suggest but this may also just have to be taken up the retreat this is one case uh Contra ly where I think it's important that it say and report back to the council I understand she will say that all these things require reporting back to the council but in fact that's actually not true a lot of these things get done and we learned about it at the end of the year this is something that I think we do want to have um presented to the council yes I agree and discussed so cond present and present back to the council can I suggest that if we do that we say by a specific date oh that's a good idea that at least differentiates it differentiates from the others okay um when so this is where have to ask Paul about feasibility but do we have a rough date we want to put out there we give him what at the maximum three months maybe two I don't know I was going to say six six months I'd say June well if he has to if he has to conduct it and it's like we're Contracting out for this this isn't like a um I don't know right is this is what we start uh I'd say by June 30 all right let's try that okay okay um this is new right no that is a carryover the only thing that's new is US asking for it okay and this is that's a carryover and this is too yeah they're slightly diff they're phrased a little bit differently but they are they're basic concept okay um this is new looking forward to the discussion uh this it's kind of a carryover is kind of adapted I guess they're kind of doing an adapted yeah it's it's oh sorry I mean it's been pointed out to me that this is what HR does yep is HR not doing it is that why this is here I I don't understand why this is here this is here because the counselor asked that it be included and I tried to put everybody's in for go to discuss I don't I think there's we have some criteria we apply to that it's not just like if you throw something in the pile we get to put it in here is it the criteria is then go discusses it well I think there's also whether it's measurable whether it's actually actionable um if this is something that a Department's already doing what's the point um is is I'm sorry georgean I'm thinking back some uh a conversation with pamol young where she'd like to um to have uh some kind of report on the number of residents um uh employees Etc who are participating in stuff like that and I don't know whether we want to add something like that or not did she not do or do do do they not not her specifically but is there any sort of like annual reporting that they would do I honestly don't know okay I think the difference here was uh my I didn't put this one in so I am interpreting here but I think that the difference this is a carryover and uh there wasn't anything specifically C catered I guess to the Town Council that's right um there was we are obviously always welcome to go as a member of the public to things like that they that they do offer um and I know that they had I know because my colleagues at ammer College offered some as well to to ammer uh town of ammer Staff but um as well as our our our own staff in house yeah I mean we can we can take it out but I think the difference was that it the inclusion of Town Council was there um and I don't I guess we don't know the status of it here here's if no one's going to comment on what Anna just said this is where I would like to see um where is it the youth programming be where we have create and appoint an advisory Council for Youth and bipac youth LGT blah blah then it should be um that we talk then about uh coordinating program for Youth Empowerment those two things go the provide training would go underneath that connect it to the next I will I'll switch the order Pat do you want to change did I just delete something no no that's what I was doing last time okay um did did you want to let me see if I can pull up hold on one second did you have any comments on the wording here I guess is what yeah that's what I'm so I I I'm sorry I mean maybe this is again something that will just have to take place at a retreat um but yeah that could be and I could bring I mean basically what Pamela was saying um to ensure that town staff participate um and as oh a support PD for staff through promotion of MMA workshops and other training opportunities and we oh sorry yeah okay that's fine Ure PD opportunities are accessed equitably by tracking staff uh accessing PD opportunities and I don't know whether I don't even know if I want to put those in I just said that I would say something about them to her can we revisit that when we get to the management section because I think that that's where we have that more explicitly stated out and I want I do want to talk about that but I but I think it's more it's it's down there more so does anyone want to make anything concrete about this do we want to keep it in and have a discussion at the at the retreat or do we want to take it out and have someone pitch to put it back in my personal desire would be to take it out if someone wants to put it back in they can put it back in and we can discuss okay anyone like to see it be there okay Lynn you're muted I I just leave it in for now I I'm not all right I feel like it is an HR function I feel like lumping the council in with everybody else is not the same um it's just different I I hear you Lyn and I and George and I have had this but it feels to me like the Town Council has not maybe some people have individually but they have not access these trainings and I think that that really bothers me it bothered me when shaon and I tried to do it with you guys and it turned out to be a bummer of a workshop not our fault um but some people learn some really important things anyway it I think that we've kept ourselves out of this and that feels uncomfortable to me as a body we are Town employees too I mean in a different area but that's what we are yeah okay all right about the go ahead Geor yes this one Youth Empowerment we just had the rec department identify promote and coordinate programming for Youth Empowerment and we just had a long report in Paul's most recent uh report about that yeah what are we asking here it's not okay what I just don't understand I mean this is just saying I mean this just was done um what what are we asking wck to do they've already done it is and the programs are ongoing is that correct George yeah they're I mean they are what they are and they're ongoing and there's a specific purpose here or goal i' like to hear it but it just basically says you know wck you just did this but keep doing it or do it again or I think this is and I'm inter if I'm interrupting you I'll be quiet it seems to me that the town Council has not actually ever really discussed the Youth Empowerment Center uh and it became clear that we wanted to work on the goals and that the rec department has taken up an enormous um job and they've been doing it and they've been doing it well and I'm very very pleased I know their tensions in the recck department but overall they're doing a really good job that does not satisfy a segment of our population and so what are we doing with this I think this is a really good question that George is putting out there uh I think it might work George if we said to continue to identify because and continue to promote um and I'm it's not maybe that's a copout I don't I don't know and you know I mean it's not as if we're we're you know I mean if there's a problem with youth programming if if we don't actually know what youth programs we have if we're not actually promoting them and we're not coordinating them then I guess maybe there's a place for this but to best of my knowledge that's not a problem and unless somebody yeah so why is it here because it is a problem so I think that George when we first brought this up I think our the changes that we've made to this are were that we we if I'm pulling back from God we've been talking about this for so long uh pulling back from the earlier conversations we did change the wording of this goal after after we talked about how in the town manager's self-evaluation he identified all these things that none of us had any idea were happening and that I'll in that I'm not going to speak for all of us or any of us will speak for myself um I think I and other people said this sentiment as well sh would have changed the goal on create youth power youth uh programming which is I believe what it was saying before something along the lines of of identify and create and so we changed the word to be identify promotee and coordinate um because there there were so many all spread out over the place that we were like there's got to be some sort of pulled together coordinated promotion of this and and naming of it because it is happening um and so that that's my recollection of why this is still in here and phrased the way it is we are not saying create new youth programming we are saying figure out what it is coordinate it and promote it those are that's the difference between this goal and and prior year goals from my recollection but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm having a false memory here it has been known to happen I'm simply saying that this is already being done and I don't understand why it's here okay I don't understand what it's asking that's new or that it's I I even know how you would uh I mean yeah so I like it to come out thank you um I understand why you would would like it to be gone the reason I believe it's here is because of the ongoing unaddressed thing that came out of CSS JC and and it was about a Youth Empowerment Center and in fact the what the town has done and paid for is the identification of all of the youth programs around town right and if we're going to ever confront this it would be at a retreat and it would be to say this is what we can afford to do or not and so this is a document for the town manager telling him what we want him to do it sounds like this is something we need to do so this should be in a different document called The Town Council goals no it would it would be a budget item if we were going to create a Youth Empowerment Center and it's kind of this this leftover thing that nobody has been willing to address and I still feel like it might help but nothing will help George right now I know you and I love you George but nothing's change your position I just want to know what's here continue to identify promote and coordinate because there are always new programs and th there you know they can be National programs that you know that we take on I would love to see and this certainly wouldn't fly in CSS JC but you know the police department has been involved in some of the in the arise stuff which has been really wonderful and should I'd like to see more things come from other departments um I don't know so my thought on this is that we used to have a goal of create a plan for a Youth Empowerment Center and then we we had never actually had the conversation at the council level of do we need this and so I think this goal arose out of identifying do we need this so if that is the end I'm going to anticipate George's next comment I could be wrong George but my my anticipation of your next comment is that then we should explicitly say to determine whether or not we need one um I guess right okay so I think that if if that is what we want to explicitly say then we should put it here otherwise this is kind of a meaningless goal because it's already happening I think Pat whenever you you you absolutely were correct that we should say continue this but that's a not a red flag but it's like an orangee flag a p flag if you will of we need to clarify this goal better about why it should be in here if it's just continuing so so maybe we should have the conversation of to identify a need for a Youth Empowerment Center or determine the level of need for a Youth Empowerment Center do we want to just explicitly call it out I think that uh the way you said it initially what did I say well that's why I can't remember I'm too old but then if I promote ordinate programming for Youth Empowerment and then there was something about to determine the need for a Youth Empowerment Center which to me means a building a special room or you know stuff like that and we may even have that because a lot of this is happening at the schools so but I yeah this is going to be an awful conversation but the council avoids it right I'm here for it let's let's go going be a long day why shouldn't it be brought up as a budgetary request under the jcpc process if if somebody want capit I'm sorry it's not a capital request it would include Staffing it would include operating it's a it's a big deal so then it goes to thcom I guess I don't know it's it's it's a really a question both of just there are lots of needs and there's only so much money so but where does the conversation start George for the need for this yeah or like you said bring it to fincom so like does are you say are you saying that the process should be a counselor brings a motion forward saying establish a Youth Empowerment CER counselor would a counselor would have to bring it yeah if they wanted um so what I guess what I'm hearing is that um what if this means anything it's asking uh the wck people as asking Paul to to to tell wreck to uh yet again um put together some kind of report um on what youth programming is at the current point and what they're doing to coordinate and promote it um for the purpose of determining whether we need a Youth Empowerment Center yeah we I mean we changed the meaning of the goal right like initially this goal meant do this better than we've been doing it because the call is coming from the community that we need a Youth Empowerment Center because there's no programming for youth that's a rough amalgamation of things we've heard and we as the council know there is because Paul told us but if the community doesn't know we need Paul to focus on kind of the pr of it right the promotion and coordination of it so that was initially kind of what this said to me but what it came from initially was this request for a Youth Empowerment Center so we've now changed the the meaning of this goal to be now talked to the council and tell us what is the level of need what would this do in our community I mean there's an enormous level of Need for seniors but that's we're not going to have a study on what seniors need in order to determine whether we're going to build a senior center uh we're just not going to build a senior center um so why don't we have that in here as well um anyway we're I'm goingon to I'm going to suggest we pick a direction on this goal and then know that we're going to have to have this conversation at the council I'm going to try to pull us back to the from Go's perspective is this specific is this getting at something that's tangible not necessarily physically tangible but like understandable and doable within a year so I I think once we start kind of not infighting but in discussion to the level that we currently are I think I it's going to be better solved with a vote at the council some point uh Lynn I agree okay not to delve right back in but do we want to keep this last part in or no we just added something now so we've just added to determine level of need for a Youth Empowerment Center yeah do we want to keep that or no I'd take it out okay the the argument argum keeping it in is it forces us to confront something that we've right but somehow or other we need to I think we're going to still confront it to be honest with you I hope here though that at least it's in black and white and people can talk about it then leave it in okay I I just yeah how about uh separate Youth Empowerment Center d'angeles do you want it separate I don't I don't whatever I'm okay we can move on any issue we talked about this one already any issues with creation of Resident oversight Bo this is a carryover from before um we're just saying now propose the plan for it um we tried I think this was where we got a bit more specific and more reasonable uh feasible George here's your senior center one we did have it very important one develop aing critical space and program needs at the senior center including an ADA accessible Transportation program that runs five days week my complaint here is that I think this is two different things but and it should be broken out but I will I will let that go um and this is new yeah yes okay complete streets yep ammer bicycle pedestrian Network plan I love that one this it where did this come from um this was a counselor ad we just passed we just ad it's not the same thing no this is a different thing so what is this asking uh this is asking to I don't even know if this is legal uh this is asking for streets that are already posted to reduce uh to 25 miles an hour I don't actually think this follows the legal process but um so it's not actionable it's and so why is it here it should come out I want to do more research into its actionability um I I should have done on that I'm sorry I I had sent this counselor a long thing from dot about how to change speed limits but um well first of all Paul can't do it I mean it can't just unilaterally reduce speed limits um it's a complicated process and blah blah blah um and it's I'm not even sure what it's asking I mean basically every Road in Amis is going to be 25 miles an hour only densely settled roads which is defined by we have a definition for that this doesn't seem to be the place to be taking this up but I you know anyway I I personally agree with you I I think we could get honestly this one I think on actionability um I think that the process is more up to the council than anything else I can look it up if people want me to to do that right now but I yeah so why don't we just take it out okay is that and if they want to put it back in they they're could do that at the retreat and they can hopefully make a case for what they actually want but we can't make the case for them okay we're done with Community Health Community safety I hate the double Community y'all it it is the same dang thing but I'm just sharing that I sometimes do let things go I mean I just want to say in in passing that we continue as a body to just pile up um you know plans and and and programs with with absolutely no regard or thought for cost or staff time we just Heap this stuff up and we just look to Paul and say you know well good luck there's no acknowledgement of any kind of fiscal reality there's no acknowledgement of any kind of Staff reality uh it's just a wish list um and I I guess I just don't know where um we can have this discussion maybe if Paul were here um he could help leaven us a bit by saying well either that's already being done or he could say there's just no way we can afford that or he would say I just don't have the Staffing for that um so we just continue to add and add and add and add without any discussion or any uh you know thought and I include my own in this as well um you know reflection on what is this actually going to cost and what's what's this going to mean for staff um and and so I can see why you know he looks at this and and just puts his hands in his his face and goes you know uh but it just seems to be we why don't we have this why can't we have this discussion why can't we say one of the categories is how much is this going to cost I mean is this going to have a financial impact and if so you know many of these will have Financial impact um certainly they'll all have staff impacts yep and there's no prioritization there's no sense of what's more important or less important it's just a wish wish list George so would it be it seems to me that if we could have an honest Retreat those are two increasing important issues the finances and the what do what it what is the council's actual priority not what you think your voters want but what is each counselor's priority because I think we all have the the community uh at centered but in in but in different ways but um so I think that those questions need to be at the retreat I also would like to see somebody else necessarily saying them because PE sometimes people automatically don't listen to you about it but the points you're bringing up are critical and important but it seems like me as go really don't have there's not much we can do about this we're just sort of like a conduit for just about anything anybody wants to put in here unless it's just uh completely uh you know beyond the pale or something that we can't imagine how you could even measure it for a second because my internet started to freeze um I will I'll share again in a second I agree with Pat that this is the especially that Financial part is exactly part of the conversation we should be having at a retreat of we might not know exactly what the financial implications are but we should look at how many of these are and kind of the even if it's like a one through three scale of of Staff estimated staff time impact and estimated dollars right um that could help get us in the right direction in terms of priority though that's why this list being specific to a year is so important because the reality of this is that we are saying all of these things are are our PRI priorities um and I think to go within this document to try to prioritize further is going to be really challenging um because we start to pit things that are different SI we went through this last we are putting things against one another that are different sizes or that overlap or all of that so I think we need to look at this document as saying these are our priorities for the year um and that might mean cutting this down I will also say we did we have taken a lot out as go um there's been a lot thrown in here that we have pretty brutally cut that we are going to see put right back on here and we are going to have to explain why we cut it and we what when we start our discussion about this retreat in hopefully eight minutes uh we are going to need to back each other up in saying what are you expecting to have happen in a year is that feasible and are there financial implications that we need to consider even if we don't know what specifically they are yet um so kind kind of a two-piece answer there of I I hope this committee has done a really really good job at pushing each other to be specific in these goals and we're not perfect on them yet but they're a lot better than they were I will stand by that and I think that what we need to do at a retreat is say if these are our priorities because I don't my personal belief is you can't necessarily prioritize more within it and if something isn't a top priority it shouldn't be in here um that's this is our priority document to prioritize within it is saying basically we're not expecting you to do this this year so it shouldn't be in here in the first place I'm gonna get off my soap box now yeah we haven't why should we I'm gonna get right back on it in five seconds I just for a minute um all right let's keep pushing through this uh so that we can talk about this retreat but um okay uh where we I think we covered community health and safety I think we're on housing okay um complete implementation of the residential rental bylaw this is continuation yes it's just kind of the next phase and I'll say that I have some changes in around here too but let's go through okay those are my no I don't need to go through my change order changes so let's go through the goals and then SK okay that takes longer all right continue to work towards establishment of a year round shelter that's ongoing it's a continuation you know the one thing that Kathy said it might add come to the council with a cost to the amest of proceeding will this be Grant funded and yeah that's that's all part of the answer I don't think we should amend anything based on that comment yeah so this is one where just I don't have a problem with this goal specifically but this is one where this is not specific so I I say what I'm about to say knowing that this isn't what Paul would do but he could take the tiniest little step and call this complete I don't think he will I think he's diligently working on it but if there were something specific that we are expecting to have happen this is where we would specify it I'm okay with this just naming that this is not specific so we're breaking our rule a little bit here but it could just be because we don't know and that's fine this is one of my favorite goals I don't know if the town can afford it so it does seem to me that um no it could be specific uh you know come back to us with a a plan of how we're going to pay for a year Well you then the plan needs to include what it would be I mean there's they've we have talked about a section that is a 20 you know a daily shelter and also some housing that would be more permanent for people so basically we need to understand what is it that we're what are we trying to design and what are the potential costs and and I want this dreadfully because I know a lot of these folks but I don't know whether we can afford it you know we can't afford a Youth Empowerment building we can afford programming I like the idea of just saying a presentation of a funding plan because that would include what Pat's getting at of if we get to a funding plan it means we've determined what it would there's path forward okay I'm and that also satisfies Kathy yes yes amazing well we don't have to satisfy any no but it's it's a legitimate question this is a fivey year this is a fiveyear project yeah e if it goes and but it won't go anywhere if there's no funding so right okay did we delete the one on track and report on Valley CDC experience with ball L for firsttime home buyers projects for lessons what that was never in here that was never in she said delete it so forget that one okay all right she was reading but that's okay I do have proposed an Implement that I know drudge doesn't like but um or Jorge doesn't like that the way I put it in here but uh let's go next is meet at minimum twice annually with UMass uh ammer I should say UMass ammer all right I'd like to make a suggestion here and see if okay I'd like to focus this specifically on housing opportunities and I'm not so sure about minimum twice annually but basically what we're saying is we want you to meet with UMass ammer and Amis college and I guess you could throw in Hampshire College too to identify uh Parcels for possible housing opportunities I agree George should be hous so so hang on one second so first off the at minimum twice annually was because that is what is in our strategic partnership agreement with UMass and so we wanted to make sure that was being met and that that was a good number so we should maybe apply not a good number it's not enough it's a minimum number minimum number uh the other part here is um the okay so George so you're saying first one and the reason why Hampshire is in here was because Paul talked about the land wealth that Hampshire land wealth that Hampshire has um especially as it has to do with housing so so you're saying it would read meet at minimum twice annually with UMAS ammer Amis college and Hampshire College to identify Parcels for housing opportunities yes yes that's what I'm saying focusing on housing only and again I would argue take out at minimum twice annually we talk this is a one-year document we want him at least some at some point in the coming year to meet with these institutions to identify possible housing opportunities on their land and and tell us what he learns which you know you know who knows but that's what I'm suggesting I like that minimum twice annually because it makes it specific I I know I hear you I'm just saying that's that's why I like it in there is because um it gives perspective he looks at anything you know you want me at minimum to meet with him he has enough trouble meeting them with once um and now he's going to meet two he has to meet with them they have to meet with him twice you must but this is on a specific issue this is this is we're asking him to meet with them specifically it does it changes the it changes the the messaging of the goal Lyn I think the real issue is work with meetings are one thing working ongoing with work with UMass ammer amers college and Hampshire College to identify housing opportunities whether or not they're ever going to come up with Parcels isn't nearly as important as they may say we're going to do this for housing but we have nothing to do with the parcel they're not going to give us the parcel believe me I we asked for a parcel for the DPW and UMass ammer just about cro now wait a minute ammer gave us a parcel for the DPW we rejected it no no this was UMass ammer oh I'm sorry I misheard oh I totally agree Pat okay so UMass I'm gonna I'm going to climb on the top of my hill to die that's super vague if we are comfortable with it being super vague that's okay but to say work with UMass Amis Amis college and Hampshire College to identify housing opportunities is really really vague and Broad so if that's as good as we can get that's as good as we can get and that's fine I just needed I gotta name it but what you're saying is oh if he meets twice and that happens to come up he's okay so it's still not we're saying he has to talk about it twice I I'm not disagreeing with you I'm not disagreeing with you that that it's still vague the issue with this particular goal is that it hinges on the other party coming through this isn't fully in Paul's control so there's only so far we can get with this one we just got to say do your best um and so we were trying with work with work with I like work with that means they have to be able to work with him on they have to be willing to work with him on we may report back at the end of the year you know I met with them and they just weren't interested they told me to go away and we get a different story from the frommer college yeah we compare stories then at that point and then we their thing is oh we're doing this all we're giving you my issue my issue here is that like this could look like an email and then it's done and that's my concern not my actual concern again not about Paul but for me I liked the you have to meet to sit down specifically on housing issues at least twice a year if you meet with them about other stuff another time that's fine but twice this year we want you to sit down with these institutions to talk about housing I liked that um I'm not saying that is the maximum number but this makes this I mention it once in a meeting and it's done because they didn't want to meet me on it the meeting twice per year kind of puts the insistence of persistence on it just to have a second meeting where they're going to say this same thing right hey that's better than just one where they say now in my mind but all right that's fine I'll leave it here I I do plan to be a pain about this though and how random how broad it is that's fair so come up with a better argument for me next time okay all right um I don't think this is new anymore to be clear this is now not new good all right um and where did this come from the next one I'm sorry that came from me you have anything to the argument here is that homes are so expensive in ammer that that why you know we there are better ways to spend our money on roads and sidewalks and schools no Senor centers all right as the person who wrote this in here let me explain why I think this is important we have as we know a lot of capital a uh affordable housing we have a lot of affordable rentals especially with a couple new home ownership opportunities coming in I am not saying that the town of ammer needs needs to be the one doing out funds for a first-time home buyer program but what I would like to see is what might the town do to coordinate this process how might the T this is saying propose a process to create and implement this it could be that there isn't a process right like I I think that if that is where it comes to if it's this is too expensive this isn't doable then that's the answer but I'd like to see us look into what that process would look like um because a firsttime home buyer assistance program when we talk about wanting to bring more amilies into the area wanting to bring uh uh those that missing middle right this is one of the barriers the reality is that down payments are one of the barriers to buying a home so down payment assistance programs exist in many places across the country um we have external organizations that that do run them and a program could be that the town works with Valley CDC or with another organization uh but I would like to see I would like to see the town actually create and Implement something that is Town supported and uh and organized to help address that need the town already Works Valle cdcf it's it it there's an argument for it I'm not saying I would support it at at retreat but um that at least I now know where it comes from and I hear the argument for it um and I think probably just stays in and we'll have to hack to cashion out a retreat um Pat my understanding is that the uh subsidy that Valley CDC offers still has income requirements on it is that true I think what I was talking about was more broad than that for first-time home buyers okay but I don't see Town setting up a fun because we don't have the money I mean you could have the Housing Trust do it but it would have to be meet their affordability requirements you'd have to give them some money yeah okay anyway move happen anyway so why is this here because we are we want it to happen because it's still a priority even though it has to happen we're giving him a checkbox to say he did this because we know that it's going to take time and effort and work to do so putting it in here it is a gimme but it's still it's a priority that we expect him to do this year um I'm going to push us a little bit faster because I do want I'm going to jump in then because oh with your reor reorganizing yeah just a little bit if you would WR propose revisions to zoning bylaws leave it there then move up provos revisions to the zoning bylaws uh where supported by the master plan and then third or that work on revising and updating the master plan we don't follow the master plan anyway uh we could submit the same one we have and we'd still be but it is the it is but it's begin on work on revising it's a required revision or a review it isn't so just working on the master plan um all right I'm sorry if I'm getting bie bie getting what bie bie I like that uh does this is did I do what you were saying yeah because it seems like zoning should be all together you've got the put it Adu is a zoning bylaw yeah so I have Adu and then revisions to zoning bylaws and thens to zoning bylaws again but doing two different things with those revisions I just need to mention that during the retreat Kathy will object to this one but I don't think we should change which one which one about adus and rezoning adus that the state law one it's um just the whole stuff she says delete okay delete so yeah good luck with that right yeah okay I think that this one will be a fun discussion and Pete I'm looking forward to it me too yeah we could have already done that I know Pat all right um so oh I thought I fixed the formatting here but I didn't okay uh Lynn do your hand is stop did you have oh I'm sorry oh that's okay Carry okay um we on to thank you we're on to Administration and Leadership um this is where Pat I think we were talking this is okay how it's written here except I don't think what does it mean uh strateg explore strategic options to make it more attractive and rewarding I could tell you raise it's a salaries you know we don't need to right yes we do because because Pat that's actually not always true so we can do salary studies we can do anti-discrimination studies those are all really important things that we should do but when you look sorry this is now like squarely in what I do for work so I'm really pumped up about it sorry George um you actually need to create a plan to do this we as the Town Council this is where we get into the whole expertise thing we shouldn't make the assumption that we know how to make ammer the town of amest a great place to work but what we are saying to Paul is we want you to focus strategically on exploring how to make the town of amest a great place to work that might mean looking at our hiring practices that might mean looking at our salaries again we don't know what that looks like but we are telling him we want you to focus some time and energy this year to actually looking strategically not just draft something but dedicate some time to how do you make ammer a more attractive and rewarding place to work okay looking specifically at continuing education supervision and Leadership training so this um Lynn has her hand up I'm gonna go to Lyn and then and are being bad I don't have any hands uh I just need to share Kathy she said she thinks do we have evidence that we are not attra attractive maybe better to ask for exit interviews we have many long-term employees working conditions are issue for fire and DPW departments as well leave it the way it is I'm going to leave it the way it is and I can fight that fight but um exit interviews would be part of that strategic option yes Pat and then George not on that one so if George wants to speak to that one he can so this was put in uh and correct me if I'm wrong um by which one are you talking about George the explor Strategic options for making making sure right um this was actually a go creation George well at least in my conversation with this counselor it was it was driven by the some of the things that were said in staff uh uh reviews of Paul uh complaining about or expressing concerns about ability to access continuing education um getting supervis supervisory uh opportunities and lack of chances to get leadership training so uh it's really um it was in response at least one person understood it to be in response to things they had read in evaluations but it sounds yeah go ahead it started that way um we initially had this in here as guarantee continuing at opportunities and then the discussion that we had was we don't actually know what is currently available and we don't know again kind of what continuing that's super Broad and doesn't actually fully address the concern about a healthy and engaging work environment so we T we included um that considering access to continuing education supervision and Leadership training as part of this but we wanted a broader the conversation that we as a committee had was that we wanted this broader look at what actually would make the town of ammer a more attractive and rewarding place to work so that was the evolution of this goal it it did start off as I think it was like guarantee continuing education opportunities to all staff and Paul said that's not um feasible in the way it's written right uh so we we had looked at adaptation and I'm open to Corrections on my memory if I'm wrong on that um Pat and then George I'm not speaking to this okay George I'm done okay this one um all right Pat go ahead with incorporate anti-racism training it seems to me that there you know or I'm not sure how to say it gender bias uh lesbian gay bisexual transgender Q Plus whatever issue because it isn't just anti-racism I've been mistreated as a when people found out I was a lesbian doing something um does this cover and and incorporate anti-racism and anti-discrimination training into onboarding yeah because it's kind of broad could be gender it could be sexual preference yeah I don't know George go for well it's an H it's an HR question and assumption is that HR does this is there evidence that HR is not doing this Paul told us yeah so this is not currently built in ex what my in our conversation with Paul this initially was a super broad one that said train every single Department in anti-racism training and Paul said feasibility wise we don't have the staff or the time or the bandwidth to do this um but why don't you pick an area for this year so we he's he recommended onboarding so I don't know what there currently is but this came this particular recommendation came from Paul all right fair enough as to where to target it for the coming year can we go to the top one yes sir this one yes clarify okay I'm all ears um how am I the spokesperson and they can't find an answer to a question I can't find an answer half the time all right um okay and I'm a supposed what are we asking him to do here we are asking for okay my reading of this goal is to for am I doing a good job so far is to ask Paul to task Sam uh who's our social media and website person with a more clearly accessible flowchart of who to talk to if you have a concern about XYZ um kind of like a 311 sort of situation but just an image um or or website or whatever I don't know what form it would take that's not up to me but basically saying if you have an issue with a pothole you talk to this person if you have an issue with like what are the common reasons why someone would reach out to the town and where can they go from there it's it's just asking for it could be a social we leave this open to the town to determine how this gets put out there to the public but it might be a social media page it might be a website landing page it might we don't know but this came from I think a lot of Resident requests saying I don't know where to go when I have a concern about XYZ and so we wanted to just clearly kind of delineate that tree of who to talk to if you have concerns about countless emails that I get have to do with I don't know who to ask I don't know who to talk to so I think that this it and we think somehow that the it or Sam will be able to come up with the uh a a One-Stop shop for all the questions that people ask that they can't find an possible I am fairly convinced that Sam's talents are boundless don't doubt way no meaning like truly I I think that this is what we're we're asking for to be a priority we're and and it may not be perfect but we would like for them to prioritize all right pitching a solution for this um okay any other ones in this okay yeah any other ones in this category here we got I'm sorry about uh gender bias and salary promotions and job responsibilities yep let's and finally the last one is not clear what this actually means though I think and it's not clear how he's going to actually what would it mean what is what are the specifics I think specifically what this is asking though it doesn't say it is looking at the duties of the assistant Town manager and the town manager and given the amount of reports Etc and demands on the on both those positions whether there is a need for a third position or some kind of reorganization um something along those lines so top management means Town manager and assistant Town manager and organizational structure and distribution responsibilities is a kind of uh backhanded way of saying um you know is the job manageable and because we some of us are getting the impression that it's not and we'd like to have some some kind of I guess it have to be outside but some kind of U of A sense of what could be done to uh address that but maybe I don't know does that belong I don't know George I think you're you're bringing up a really interesting point here and addressing one of the things that I have issue with with this goal is again review is could be something really simple could be something really big you just mentioned a kind of part of that spectrum of possibility which is conduct an or engage in an external review um if that's what we're asking for that's something different which we would have to pay for it um but I but I think that's again just to be clear to you all and the council this could be accomplished by Paul looking at his job description and the organizational structure and saying okay I reviewed it done and and that's again not saying that's what he would do but if we think about like Devil Paul and Angel Paul like what is the worst thing Paul could do and the best thing Paul could do and neither of those are truly Paul's human being self so uh worst version of a town manager would say all right I reviewed it it's done check best version would really deeply look into this would work with HR on it that would be my maybe my suggestion is you know alongside human resources department review the organizational structure and this for me is thinking about the long-term health of the town in this position right and so well we want Paul to stay here forever at some point in his life he will probably want to retire and we need to make sure that we have a town manager distribution of responsibilities that's doable for someone else coming in and that's a like all of those things so I don't think this is a bad goal but I do think that it's really Broad and if we could be clearer I don't know it really is a question whether we think it's priority enough to hire a consultant to do it and if we don't it should come out we shouldn't be asking Paul to do it I think that's pointless it has to somebody's gonna have to look at it from the outside and that's money and that's a consultant and um so maybe it should just come out and the question is is this year the year we want to be doing that with all the other goals that we saying I mean in terms of consultant hiring a consultant yeah that's a legitimate question um I guess the question for this committee is whether they think it should be left in and the and the council as a whole should discuss it or whether we should just take it out I don't think this is asking Paul to do it I don't intend it to be a request for him but it's a request to hire a consultant to do it and it should probably say that if I think if that's the expectation it should absolutely say that that's the expectation I think it should be taken out okay because you feel we don't have the money for it and it's not that big of a priority yeah there's so many I mean we couldn't even get a million dollars for roads and sidewalks and if you watch what's happening with the weather we're really  so you want me to talk about schools again Pat that's not because that because that's not the only issue Anna let's do that another time you and I um all of the issues are really important all right let's take it out I wanted to take Lyn do you have thought Lenn I think this might have come from you do you have any thoughts on this one this came from me it did come from it came from me and George it's something that I have suggested to Paul that he has too many direct reports yes I've said this to him year after year after year and um that was the whole purpose um L you agree that it have to be done externally that this there's you need a consultant for it yeah yes yes I mean a consultant makes sense but I don't want I don't think spending this year spending money on that is what we need but that's so we can leave it in and bring it up at the retreat so it have to read hire a consultant to you have to insert consultant to review the organizational structure and distribution of responsibilities of the Town manager and the assistant Town manager it's what including your Finance director at and all your other direct reports it's whether or not for instance would you ever put all of Public Safety under one person that right instead of having them report up to B so I'm I think that this is really important I do think we should do it I think I agree that this might not be the year to prioritize this so do we decide that or and that's oh we decide that we take it out and some yeah do we need to go to a vote let's straw straw poll it was this in it was in our uh other ones yes it's been in uh and nobody com and Kathy didn't comment nobody else has commented like to take it out or whatever uh I do think I got one comment from a counselor that said this is what I just said said right of um how do you expect this to be completed because it could be completed in a myriad of ways so I do think the clarification of engage a consultant to review this would be an important clarification if that's our expectation and I think we should be upfront about that uh again a retreat topic yep okay fair enough and if we decide we don't have the time and money then that's what we decide okay [Music] um last second to last one no you can't yeah I'm sorry this one's got all kinds of fun in it too so much stuff I'm not trying to skip it I know I know all right um let's talk about infrastructure management and I am going to push us because we do we I need us to talk about this Retreat so uh this one feels cut and dry to me fine this one we've talked about at length before so are we good on this one now take the next one out that's what I would suggest and I'm the one who put it in here so take it out why okay it's it's uh it's really a jcpc issue um and uh you know unless we you know okay I'll be right back I'm sorry I I disagree it's not a jcpc issue well that's where the money is I know other words this year they took 500,000 out that was jcpc and now we're going to try and put it back in um I guess maybe then I should say continue to fund uh in addition to chapter what it chapter 90 I can never remember 90 in addition to chapter 90 money continue to put Town money into road and sidewalk repairs that's that's more of a financial guideline I would argue George Financial guideline or jcpc um what is this saying to Paul I don't know Len this is left over in some ways from um a discussion last year right where we talked about him developing a five-year plan to address our road and sidewalk repairs next item yes right I do think that's the next item yes it is it is there's something like well let's take out the other one that's what George was teing I fine and in that plan would be I assume you know a way how we're going to fund it yeah all right we got something El I'm fine good I feel better already uh all right uh schematic designs guess the schematic design Kathy feels that um is this present one for DPW he said that that just goes up with the committee up at the top no cuz he can Comm and the year we have made no progress in DPW and if that's the case um I will be very very unhappy I mean leave it where it is she can argue for consolidation that the re a propos an entry fee for outside municipalities her comment was do we need to make it clear that this is an addition to the cost of extending Services it yes we might uh when connecting I I think it's clear enough I don't think we okay we''ve done enough we talked about this and I apologized to everyone but somehow it was clarified and then I forgot because what I've been told when I spoke to Guilford was that we already do this but it's an additional I think this was this would be an my understanding when uh you're you're the expert on this one but this would be a different fee it's different than the cost it's additional fee and it is what we right so for example okay Leverett decides to go ahead with the development of the kitridge estate all right and hopefully and and to do that they want to connect to our water and sewer right so first of all they have to come up with the money to lay the pipe etc etc second of all they now have to pay their monthly fee but this is above all of that this is you're coming in to a plant that we built a long time ago and have made major investment in and you need need to buy in as a partner does that give them a say in anything when I discussed this with Paul he absolutely agreed okay it doesn't give them a say not partner in that sense but um sorry just to be consistent we don't have periods on the other I'll deal with that okay uh we're missing a couple new or not news so let's let's talk here propose a plan to develop options for uh disposition dispensation disposition disposition dispos disposition isn't that a carryover I think that's a carryover and haven't we signed a contract and carry all that Kathy wanted to suggest was that there should be an ad hoc committee for this and she specific are you still on the town own properties yeah okay sorry and she specifically suggested in another email that it should address the Wildwood property I think all of that's covered in here yeah I do too so an ad hoc committee I mean no no no I what how Paul wants to do this yeah I think we're getting a little too dictatorial fine okay all right so Kathy may bring that up and that's fine instead of propose a plan Cathy is saying propose a plan to form a committee to develop options like that's the and we are saying we just want him to pitch a plan right it might be a commit it might not and on the next one on the elementary school she said the contract is signed it includes caps on overtime and winter conditions to make for the loss time this fall this will need to be monitored so we're done with this one yeah he's already achieved one of his goals yes y great comes out get it out there it's done it's done okay this will be a fun discussion no it it should stay in it should stay in I'm not pitching taking it out I'm just saying thank you she this to say oh my God no you're not don't revise it it's gonna cause a fight no matter what we say come on exactly please leave it the way it is okay and this uh this one update the 5-year Capital Improvement plan in light of the 2024 revisions this has gotten flip flopping feedback in terms of this is going to be done automatically and doesn't need to be in here and a this should be a goal so i' I've heard both pieces of feedback so I have left it I think it's fine it's fine okay uh and this is sorry let's do a this is new and this is ongoing carry over okay yeah it's ongoing last last one pursue strategic partnership oh uh agreements with ammer college and Hampshire College okay pursue strategic agreements with each institution of high Ed yeah we changed it because we have the one with youas for another go ahead that that that addresses her concern great um continue to encourage and support expanding resident involvement in town government and awareness do we keep that in oh we got rid of that because it meant nothing she said yeah okay leave that out that's fine so what it's not a bad idea it just means nothing the way it's written um next was yeah sorry go ahead GE what I'm sorry go ahead nope I was moving on so you go yeah I want you to move on all right work with our legislators to explore the possibility of state level I think that should have a hyphen state level payments in Li of taxes or Pilot legislation regarding nonprofits what are we asking him to do all he can do is Advocate and talk with them regularly about this because can't do all the time so we're just saying this is a priority of things that you should regularly be talking with them about right and and let me just say that the last time sorry yeah we don't necessarily have agreement with our local legislators on some of this right it it also means giving them all the data they need it it might need dedicating staff time to getting them what they need in order to advocate for this so it is a matter of the council needs to say this is a priority because Paul's Paul may need to will need to assign staff time to do this project both very well stated Anna thank you no problem um so that kind of those the aren't they they are new we haven't specifically it's it's not that they haven't been happening but we haven't put them in the goals before thank you sorry no you're fine um oh I hate this last one take it out what is this crap G back and for any counselor can make an appointment with t Paul so this came from counselors who expressed concern that it out okay let me let me at least get this out um concern that if that they weren't hearing back or um because they disag they they felt like the opportunity was not there um when they reached out so I try we we got specific with this um being saying like everybody should get at least two meetings a year if they want them Pat I personally I agree with you Paul's been very open to this again if we take Paul out of the equation and just put generic Town manager in do we want to guarantee the right to meet the generic town a new town manager could say oh I met with Pat twice I don't have to meet with her again this year because that's what that says it's like our district meetings Lynn and I have two maybe three some counselors have five some counselor you know this is ridiculous I'm sorry does Paul get back to every one of us instantaneously not always particularly right now with what's going on in his life right and but that's not an excuse because he also has a job but to put that in I I just find that offensive I really find it offensive it's up to the counselor if they haven't gotten a a response to go back to Paul and say hey I need a meeting and here's what it's about um this is I will take it out if that's what go wants I'm not not going to argue for or against this particular one um this was you're fine you're fine I just it's not it's not me you're fine um this was an adaptation I believe of a prior goal that said make yourself available to coun um I think we just tried to be a little bit more clear in it um but he makes himself available it shouldn't even be a goal okay George out Lyn go all right done look we took three out everybody okay so um you want to know how many I had on my list to take out tonight no it was a lot more than three take out Anna no Anna's doing a great job it's not just cuz you want something doesn't mean everybody else wants it um okay I'm going to edit this number I will do the counting after you all leave just gonna highlight it so I don't forget um and you're gonna add something about um grants and all that is I did I did already it's in right here yeah y okay let's let's take an official vote on this one again just I know we we've edited it so we got to vote on it um is a motion to what do we have referring this or recommending recommending recommend okay thank you so is there a motion I'll move it uh I move to recommend the 2025 Draft Town manager goals as amended by go on January 9th 2025 to the council for review is there a second all right put Lynn there okay ly okay you you recommend them for adoption right I do I guess yeah I do recommend them for adoption I just don't know if they're going to get there Athena um okay I do recommend them for adoption thank you Pat or Lynn is that an uh yeah okay uh making sure that's what you wanted to all right uh how do we vote Pat I Lynn I George hi Mr Ryan uh all right and I am an i as well we are for in favor one absent okay so we are going to spend quickest amount of time let's talk about this Retreat if we picture it in your brains everybody set the scene close your eyes do what you have to do to get in that really positive head space that you're going to feel when we go into this Council Retreat together it's a Saturday morning we're brigh eyed and bushy tailed and we're talking about the town manager goals Saturday not before 10: please yes ma'am I don't know when it's going to be that that was my my hypothetical vision all right what I want us to think about is how do we think the four of us and Athena please Athena feel free to insert um all thoughts and opinions here um within moderation maybe not all your truest thoughts anyway uh but what do we think is going to be the most effective way to approach these goals meaning do we want to literally go through action items point by Point voting up down seven means it stays in seven or up means it stays in or not um do we want to straw poll it I'll pause there before I insert my own opinion is there a different way we want to approach it let's take a minute to to think on that I see that thank you Pat but let's I'm gonna give everybody just 10 seconds to just gather your thoughts here and then I will start calling on folks okay um Athena did you have some thoughts um we had Lynn had done a ranking method before that might be a way of identifying where priorities lie and it might be a way of identifying goals that maybe aren't priorities that could be eliminated so one way to do a ranking like that um that I've done with groups in the past that's been really interesting is you give everyone a set okay the if we're in the room this is how it kind of works and we'd adapt it but basically you give everybody a set amount of votes um say there's 35 or so goals we give everybody 20 stickers 20 dots and you can allocate your priority to the goals that you want you can do one goal gets all 30 of your stickers or you distribute them a bunch to Bunch or you you wait you can wait your priorities versus doing a 54321 right um that could be one way of of prioritizing this we could do a 54321 kind of system within each area or across all goals we can kind of do a full-on ranked Choice voting situation amongst all the action items um how do people feel about the idea of trying to prioritize in some way and do you have a preference for how that might go let's start with a like a a therometer here total thumbs up is yes I think we should do prioritization and ranking thumbs down is this is a terrible idea don't do it um some not this is a terrible idea but I don't think this would work with our group somewhere in the middle show me where we're at okay Lynn is following directions Pat kind of like that too kind of like that okay can can the the folks who are in the middle tell me about what what's putting you in the middle what would shift or one way or another yes George First We Take climate goals climate action items there's only three of them so and so what if we looked at it across all of the action items at once not within an area all of them at once why not because like you said they're not distributed evenly amongst the the categories so it's not necessarily fair I wouldn't give a one two okay I would give a zero if they're negative numbers i' give a negative number um and so I don't you know let's say when the dust settles and we have our tabulation whether it's dots or numbers or whatever what does that mean mean do we then say Okay anybody below this number of dots or numbers is just out or do we vote on those items or we vote on those items and anything above that is in and we don't vote on them some of us might like actually to take a public stand on something that we know is not going to pass because we want our constituents and the World At Large to know this is what we believe and some of these things maybe we don't want to take a vote on but that's life um so I guess I'm struggling to see how we can avoid just doing it item by item by item and if we do it with rankings and we have to make then we vote on some because they're below a certain you know line and we don't vote on others those are in automatically and we don't have to talk about them we don't have to discuss them we don't get to ask questions like how are we going to pay for this or you know who's who's going to actually carry this out um and and why are we asking the town manag to do this we're not going to get to ask those questions because we've already determined that in their Infinite Wisdom our colleagues have decided that those are definitely going to be in and maybe in the course of discussing questions like how much it's going to cost and who's who's why we asking Paul to do this and who's going to do it da d d da some people might change their minds and go you know that's maybe not such a great idea or the opposite they might say well now I think this is worth doing I mean we've had that happen here I mean I hear some arguments and I go okay all right maybe there's some Merit here if I'm left to my own voices I'll just vote my prejudices if I don't hear what Pat thinks what Lynn thinks what what Alicia thinks Etc about whatever um I just vote my my biases it just takes a lot of time and it's painful but I I I don't see how yeah that's my problem Athena had her hand up for a moment yeah Pat I got the hands thank you though I don't well if people put their hand down it means they chose to put their hand down and they will put it back up if they want to say something but Pat I did say I was going to call on you after to talk about your middle did you have not ready to say anything I'm really not totally fair um I Lynn so one option is to have a timed discussion for each of the goals to begin with notes and and have it be clarifying questions suggestions for modification and something else like you know there's every goal gets looked at this way including maybe feasibility and then after we're done with that do the rankings that was what I had just written down too I think that doing sort of a x number of minutes per item we read it out I think you're your point about clarifying questions versus kind of debate kind of try to try to structure this right so start off with clarification and and questions then go back and do discussion and debate is that what you're saying and then do ranking or do ranking and then or just kind of do and debate I don't think we're gonna question and during that conversation you clarify and you talk about modifications and you talk about feasibility okay then you do a ranking and then you come back and have another conversation and decide are we done with this is this what we agree something like that okay so round one is questions and discussion round two is ranking round three is discussion and vote on each item yeah and I think now Athena does have her hand up see I do see um I think we okay got it Athena I think it might be worth incorporating into that initial conversation the fact that this is the council this council's last year and uh include in the conversation you know what the council really wants to see achieved by the end of the year to highlight the you know get counselors thinking about the importance of what they really want to fight for to be on this [Music] list I think we we tend to treat everything as though it's a high priority and and um I don't think you can achieve your best work when you're trying to do so many things well you know we can we can do a few things really well we can do many things okay um so trying to frame things in that way because if we if we end up with 30 some odd goals then you know the likelihood of those goals being the the best outcome I think is lower George I hear that I I like it um I guess I'm trying to think what questions we can ask in the in the discussion phase that might lead us to the question of of prioritizing and the idea of is this doable a is this doable in a year given that this is our last year and given all the other things we have to do how important is this to you um those I think are actually in spite of my complaints about prioritizing and all that stuff those are two very very important points um so as we do the dis I mean maybe that happens during the the prioritizing section um we say as we do this keep in mind that this is our last year is this something that's that's doable in a year and secondly is this something that's really really important to you um okay because I was initially thinking let's just skip from the discussion immediately to voting and not do any prioritizing right now it's a three-step process and what Athena says and what some of you were saying suggest that we can't avoid some kind of because as you said I mean we end up with 35 action items which is where we're headed I think we're headed to that and I would wouldn't be surprised if at the end of the day we have something like that in this document and I think that would be unfortunate but it that does raise the very basic question of how do you then prioritize how do you get us all 13 of us to really focus our mental energies on yes you like this very much and you really want to see it happen but is this the highest priority for this coming year if we can sorry George you done I'm done I think this is where the challenge of all of these goals are slightly different in size right so some of them are going to take a full year to accomplish some of them are smaller some of them are they're all different sizes and so it's really hard to equate them and say well we need to knock five of them off the list or two of them off or however many because knocking one that's a quick easy goal off the list kind of does nothing so I I think that it's the prioritization discussion has to happen within context of like figuring out and the feasibility conversation needs to happen within context of we're not trying to get to a set number we're trying to get to a number that is doable and doable well within the year something that I'd like the committee to discuss is how we're going to handle modifications to the goals because what happens quite often is when we bring something to council there's uh requests not not always in motion form which my pitch is going to be painful but I'm going to pitch it anyway uh to change the wording or things like that and my concern is that we as a council will go towards language that is appeasing to the broad group but makes these goals non-specific non-actionable or otherwise kind of meaningless um we've worked really hard and had really productive tension as a group to get these two actionable places and I don't want to lose that when we go to the council that's not to say these can't change I'm not opposed to these changing but what I'm suggesting is that if someone wants to modify a goal they have to present their proposed language in the form of a motion and we have to vote on it I think that if we allow this to be a consensus everybody pitches it and we watch the changes happen in real time track changes all up on the board we're going we're going to lose the Integrity of these goals in the sense of we're going to lose the specificity um or we're going to put something in there that yeah anyway that's that's that is a concern that I have is how we as a group are going to handle proposals to change the language um and I think my suggestion would be that we recommend the the that changes be presented in the form of a motion um Athena not sure that I agree with you on that point because you have 13 counselors who are all um love to edit um and I think for ing motions can make things slow and clunky um I think it it might be wise to take time to consider what changes have been made and take a pause before a vote is taken on a section or on a goal or whatever um so that you have that time to reflect and make sure that people feel that the goal is doing what you want it to do um but the the reason I initially raised my hand was because um you had said uh after I made my comment that you know we shouldn't take out goals just to reduce the number if there's an easy one and I wasn't suggesting that you reduce the number just for the sake of reducing the number um but there there could be rounds of prioritization and ranking you could have an initial round of everyone pick your most important thing and then see how much overlap there is and then do another round of that and see how much overlap there is until you know I'm there's multiple ways of of taking this on so that the council can figure out if there is a lot of um if there are a lot of goals in common that everyone feels very strongly about and then maybe there are some other you know lwh hanging fruit that you can add to that list and then have a longer conversation about the middle stuff um there's a few different ways of doing it that that kind of combines some of these ideas and I think that might be useful could you repeat the method you were you were talking about I'm not sure I totally captured it and I want to make sure I got it you you said kind of do could you say it again um you can do rounds of okay prioritizing so you could ask councelors to say if you are able to say that we've accomplished these this one thing what would your one thing be or these three things what would your three things be that are significant accompl Ms that you want to say that we've achieved by the end of the year and then go back and go okay here's what we have left or here's what you know less less than a quorum had uh in common and then see what more the group thinks that should be added and so on um and and my other strong suggestion is that we uh and I think it'll depend who is president at that point and is chairing the meeting but my suggestion is always to take a pause before you take a vote on some of these things because the votes can happen quickly but the um the suggestion to do motions and votes on each goal and each change for a goal I think will slow things down just my opinion my two sents thank you George first want to say something about being consistent in our use of language uh going forward um my understanding and it may be wrong is that we're actually not going to be talking about the goals what we're going to be voting on And discussing are the action items my understanding though I may be mistaken is that we've already gone through the the the the major goal so-called goal categories goals and so what we're talking about if if I'm right our action items of which there are 30 or whatever it is and we're trying to decide how many of these should go into this goals document so am I correct in my use of language that we are going to be talking at the retreat about action items and trying to prioritize them and decide what should go in and what shouldn't we're not going to be discussing the goal areas we're not going to be discussing the objectives we're going to be talking about the action items so yes and since day one I have regretted calling them goal areas because it's caused a lot of confusion um I should have just said area the yes we are primarily discussing the action items however any counselor has the right to propose a change uh to the other parts of this document it is the council's document so while we've sought feedback many many times on the goal area and the objectives um the the uh action items are what we're primarily discussing and I think colloquially those are referred to as goals in many ways and we could change the headers right now to to lessen that confusion and just say area objective and action item um if that might help clarify it the way this gets framed after treat cannot completely control as you point out what may be brought up but if it's framed in such a way that the assumption is we're are going to work our way through the action items and then someone says oh no no I want to talk about the goal areas or the objectives well then I guess that's what we're going to have to do but if we just sort of talk say we're going to talk about goals B is that the goal areas the objectives for the action I think it could be framed if I if I'm right in my thinking here that can be framed to focus on the action items hopefully that's where we will focus our energies and we will not get into a long discussion about whether we want to redescribe some of the goal areas or redescribe some of the objective language we've already gone through that we had a discussion you're right you can't prevent that from happening if it happens we'll have to deal with it but I hope that we could frame it in such a way that it would discourage that kind of discussion or at least put the focus on action items and then see where we we go George if you're able to successfully discourage discussion on anything no I know I know but I mean and just how it's framed I mean anyway yeah I know just kid the other thing I'd like to be clear on are what are the I think Anna's been good about this specific questions we're asking about the action items and I'd like it if we had like an agreement on the three or four or five questions that we can come up so one is I mean these are just suggestions one is is it clear is it actionable is it measurable is it doable in a year and is it a high priority now maybe we collapse but if we could have like three or four or five at the most kind of questions where we at least as a committee can agree on that we're going to be asking during the discussion and say well that's a great point but it's it's clearly uh it's not actionable or it's it's not it's not clear it needs to be clar whatever um is it measurable um is that a good approach or do we just kind of leave it I think that the question sorry I'm sorry George go go go the right now what I wrote down is the questions the council and this committee should be able to answer are is it doable in a year what does success or completion look like and and is that clear and is it a and I just wrote prioritization but like is it a priority for the majority of the council those were the three that I got that encapsulated that thought um good that's that's what this committee is is bringing forward is goal is action items that achieve those three things for each but I yes and I think that that's going to need to be a regular reminder as we go through this discussion especially if folks are pitching to add or change things of the end result should be doable in a year Clarity on what completion or success looks like and a priority for the council um we are at 829 so i' I've got a lot of notes and I want to summarize them at the end before I bring this forward and I know a couple of us still have comments here so Lynn and then ALG go and then George so one of the prelimin Ary things to do before the retreat would be to give counselors the sheet and have those questions there for each one so that they think about it in advance the other thing would be and and don't even ask them to rank at that point so that's one thought I do like the idea of three questions if we can get it down to three okay um the other thing that I just want to mention and I I don't know that this is a rule um but we don't ever actually take votes at Retreats now I think that's not a rule um and but we should clarify that okay I'm checking because if if we honestly believe that by the end of the Retreat the council will be ready to take a vote I that would be lovely absolutely phenomenal but it may be that there's one more round and then it comes back to the council at a regular meeting that's all I I wanted to add thank you thank you um okay so I um can I interject with an answer to Len's question oh yeah absolutely it's uh work sessions where no formal votes are taken so we could post this as meeting special meeting a special meeting meaning no public comment and we could have a work session in the meeting and then no don't say work session yeah okay thank you work sessions are where we we don't take votes at work session so it's a special meeting it's a retreat right I I think that's a great solution thank you thanks I'm sorry I put those words out there because we're never gonna use them in terms of this Retreat now um so my I know when I when I pitched the idea of voting on all the changes the reason is I think that sometimes what I've seen happen is okay this the document that we've we have has been honed and crafted and lot of hands and a lot of eyes on it sometimes what happens when we get to the council level is someone tosses something out there and because people don't want to spend a ton of time on discussing it even if they disagree with it they will just let it slide and my concern and just just kind of let it go because it's not the biggest deal in the world and maybe that's fine and if that's what folks want to do again democracy I'm with you it's fine but my concern is that sometimes it is the either the loudest voices or someone has a a feeling about something that they just want to put out there and regardless of whether or not the group agrees with them we don't know because it's kind of automatically put in the document as we're working through and then we go on to other things and we we don't necessarily kind of Center on the implications of of what was just pitched so my concern is that I think this would this has immense potential to get really unwieldy if we sort of just take edits as we go and not if we maybe it's not on every suggestion maybe it's on each item to kind of accept a change to to each action item but My worry is that sometimes things get really messy when we do that editing in that way uh and not maybe it's a straw poll I don't know I I I'm trying to figure out how how to get at that solution in a less timec consuming way or maybe a less formal way but without sort of that automatic word smithing and um potential changing of meaning that can happen when we sort of just say I'd rather this say this and then someone else says i' rather it doesn't say this so then where do we go from there um we kind of tend to then go in circles where people just say their point and no one actually just calls the question um and maybe the answer is Anna then you should call the question and so Anna I think what there's an issue here of maybe needing a facilitator and I mean a serious serious task oriented facilitator and it's the kind of thing you do when you do workshops it's the kind of thing I do when I do workshops but we're members of the body so either way though you need someone who's going to require the group to make that decision you got it regardless of what that process is I think what I would my point is I'd like to avoid the kind of more consensus based or just a bit more kind of passive isn't the right word but like the approach where if someone says it it goes up on the board and we don't really right debate it um so a facilitator could do that um absolutely and and we probably should have a facilitator for this but um just that I wanted to maybe explain what my fear is about this this process um your fear is founded um I do want to to push us along so I'm gonna offer kind of a last last call for comments on this and then I want to summarize the points that I have heard here to share that I'm sharing with Lyn and Athena who uh will be moving this forward in some way George I like the idea of the three questions that you put out there is it doable in a year what do success look like and is it a priority I earlier got onto my soap box and started ranning and raving about the fact that we don't consider Financial impacts and we don't consider impacts on staff but I remember times when I've raised this in other contexts where Paul is present and he will look at me and say your job is to figure out what your priorities are it's my job to figure out how to right and so he doesn't really appreciate um that concern I mean he understands it but it's basically saying that's my problem um so it seems like those two questions in spite of my long TI raade probably just don't come up during this discussion do you think that that's something though we could when we share this document out and we share it with Paul we say if you could mull over the questions of is this a low medium or high ask roughly we're not asking for exacts in any way shape or form but could you think about low medium high ask on time and dollars and that was my second point and then I showed up exactly that what is role what is Paul's role in this and when does he get to have his say and I think it's important that he have his say and it sounds like the retreat is where he would have his say and so in fashioning the retreat I would think whoever is in charge is also conscious of making sure that um I'm sure Paul's perfectly capable doing this himself but making sure that that the town manager getting ample time to uh tell us what he thinks okay so I want to summarize what I'm hearing and then um and and make sure I've captured it and please tell me what I've what I missed here um did I do this in any logical way no so first note is Retreat underlined so we talked about here is doing kind of a three roundish Focus so we start off with questions and discussion um on the action items that would focus on the three question well clarifying questions is point. one and then the questions to erase what I just wrote start over pre- Retreat we send people the document that we just voted to to recommend to the council for adoption and we say please consider as you're reviewing this is it doable in a year roughly think about your prioritization what which ones do you care most about not necessarily saying pick your top whatever but thinking which ones are the priority for you and are you clear on what success or completion of this goal looks like and those three questions continue to kind of be the litmus test for Action items as we go through doable in a year Clarity on what success looks like and got to be a priority then when we get to the actual Retreat we start off with clarifying questions uh and discussion maybe we go through point I either Point by point or area by area whatever um then we get into a prioritization discussion where where we uh we didn't necessarily land on a a style of prioritization but we could do a three rounds like pick your top five then go and discuss that the highs and lows are middle and then do another round um we could do the kind of everybody gets 10 priorities throw them where you want and then debate the one discuss the ones that were not in the priority but we do some sort of prioritization discussion after that we might do some sort of culling discussion um but we go back round three part three of The Retreat is discussion and vote um does that sound did I miss anything and and Paul's thoughts go into the question discussion part of this in my he's obviously talking about it throughout the whole thing but uh we would like him to speak to these during that question and discussion part um and then we talked about important things are we frame the discussion to be on the action items we always pause and take a minute to breathe maybe um to breathe and check in before we vote on anything uh not just rushing into votes and talk about especially how this is this council's last year really thinking about what is it that we want to accomplish by the end of this Council term which is that in in less than a year from today but who's counting does that sound true to what the discussion we just had was did I miss anything I think so George so you talked about question and discussion was that the third round that was the first round that was the first so that said clarifying discussion so um question means basically questions of clarification um um so that first round it sounds like action item by action item we would ask for [Music] um do people have questions about Clarity and um basically the the the questions that they the three questions is that that's what would happen in that that session George I think realistically in an ideal world that is what would happen in that round but I think that we are not going to be able to keep people to clarifying questions and that people are going to propose changes during that first round I also think that if we are going to go into prioritization that would be the round to do that kind of editing thing um because how are people supposed to prioritize if the goal is just going to change or do we then do if we're if we're doing no edits in that first round I don't know I think we kind of have to do the edits if people are going to propose edits I think it has to be in the first round so that we're priori prioritizing right what people want to see on there so editing takes place there word smithing takes place there item by item what about eliminating just you know decisions to take something out that happens in phase in in round two I think that happens in round two or round three really like round two is just the prioritization round three is let's look at the bottom it depends on how we how the facilitator figure out I know it's hard but we're but I'm not going to be facilitating so I I do think that there's going to be some if we're doing an external facilitator it's going to depend on that so um it could be so for example uh the method Athena was talking about of like pick your top X number and then the council discusses the the lowest ones um that would be the calling opportunity uh similar with the dot method that I mentioned uh the ones that got no priority dots would be uh discussed and possibly voted to to remove at that point um yeah between steps to and three no step 2B would be the the the calling part but I I think realistically if we're going to remove something that feels to me like I'm G to say the word vote again but it feels like if we're removing something on this that that should be it's 8:43 yeah um what I'm going to do is send this to Lynn and Athena even though they're both here and just try to conal my notes into one email um I will also send this to them to I can s can I send this to the council if I BCC everybody and tell us and don't ask for opinion just say like for your reference go voted to send this to council tonight you're doing a go report right of course I am so it should be in the report that was a very kind way to remind me I have to do a report it's a huge attachment to a short report yeah the report is this is what we did okay y I will um yes I will voted unanimously to forward it to them so it'll be it'll be with your report and it'll be under the that action item in the packet on Monday perfect thank you okay is there anything else folks would like to make sure that we talk about or that I have in my in my notes here before we make a motion to ajour George has his hand up oh he does I'm sorry George he's taking his hand down have a quick question there's no date set yet for the retreat yeah okay no I want to thank Anna for pushing us through this again thank you yeah nice job really and for bringing the retreat up for us to discuss I think that was important hopefully it makes the job of actually planning it a little easier um a little I said a little all right I want to thank this I I know we're missing missing councelor and I know we're over time but I do want to thank uh this particular iteration of go because we don't know what committees will look like um next so I do want to thank you all I've really appreciated uh getting to work with you in this capacity and I don't actually I haven't served on a committee with um most of you ever before so this has been truly even when I almost cried one time it was still a joy so thank you all I remember that I don't remember I hid it pretty well but it was a dark day no I apologize I've cried a number of times on this always my fault just the one time all right I'm about to cry again as soon as we I know how about George instead of crying would you like to but anyway thank you all truly would you like to make a motion to adjourn thank you madam chair you've done a great job yes I make a motion to adjourn second thank you second all right I'm going to go ahead and call the vote and I'm G to write it down so I put it my dang stupid report um all right uh Pat before I vote thank you for your work yes it's time to adjourn all right uh Lynn I George I I am an i as wellous Bye by bye all right thank you all so much you on Monday everybody good night night night