Thank you. All right, we are waiting on one, but it is Tuesday, April 28th, um 2026. That doesn't matter. Okay. Uh 6:31 p.m. And we are going to call the meeting of the Governance, Organization, and Legislation Committee to order. I'm
going to begin by calling on each member of the committee to make sure that they can hear and be heard. Let's start with Council Ryan. >> I'm here. I can hear. >> Great. Uh Lynn Griezmer >> present. >> Councelor Lord >> present. >> And I am present as well. Excellent. All
right. So our first item on our agenda is going to be public comment. Um and then we might do a little bit of shifting around of items of the agenda ina items on the agenda in case members need to leave. Um so we will start with public comment. If you are joining us
today and would like to make public comment. Oh, Amber's in the audience. Bring >> in the audience. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we'll bring councelor Kenna Martin in and check in on make sure she can hear us and be heard. Um, generally for public comment, you will have up to 3
minutes. I will get my timer um to make your public comment uh on matters under the jurisdiction of this committee. We will not respond to public comments. Um, but we appreciate you joining us. So, if anyone would like to make public comment, go ahead and raise your hand on Zoom.
my whole spiel and no one wants to. All right, fine. Okay, so we are going to move on to the rest of our agenda. Um, this is not public comment. I'm not asking you to make public comment, but just if I go to order things around, are is anyone in the audience here
specifically for one of the resolutions that we are hand or proclamations that we are handling tonight, Jewish American Heritage Month, uh, ALS Awareness Month, or Migraine and Headache Awareness Month. If anyone is in the audience for those, I will bump them first.
Otherwise, I'm going to keep them towards the end of the meeting. Okay, Amber, can we hear you and can you be heard? Sorry, I just want to double check. >> Um, yes, here I am. >> Great. Thank you. Okay, so I like I said, I'm going to do a little bit of
reordering. We will begin still with the resident oversight board discussion. I am setting a time limit on this discussion and then we can come back to it if we finish if we finish everything else. Um, but we will take about an hour for this discussion and then we will go on to the other items on our agenda just
to make sure we get everything. I say that because I know that this discussion will take us more than an hour and um will take us several meetings and so I want to uh not lose track of the other other things that we need to finish up including the human rights commission
bylaw as well as some proclamations and uh just proclamations. Any concerns with that plan? hour for a bot review. Uh, sorry, not by review, resident oversight board. Okay, great. All right. So, um, we have I realized that I had we had
talked at our last meeting about um the the documents that had been sent out and I hadn't sent them to you. Um, so the documents that had been sent to the council initially that were from the council packet are now in our packet in case you couldn't find them elsewhere.
But just to give you an overview, and I'm going to lean on counselor Lord, uh, Lynn, and counselor Ryan, who were around when this was referred, what was referred to us were two options. Basically, the the options for resident
oversight board from um the body that uh the resident oversight board stakeholder group um developed. Option one is a review model if I'm understanding correctly. Uh and option
two is an investigatory model. So the referral to us is to determine either which of those models we would like to recommend the town council pursue or a combination of the two
models in some way that we see fit. The the referral to go was very broad. um it was substantive. And so we're kind of basically taking what was uh what was compiled by the the group and moving it to the next
stage um in whatever way we see fit for the council to uh to act on. Thank you so much. All that was referred the actual referral vote was to refer the proposed resident oversight board charge and bylaw to go with a report recommendation. So, it wasn't um and
there there is no specific one. It's kind of figure it out for us. So, the um I'm going to pull up the memo here so that we can just review it quickly and make sure that we're all on the same page as we go forward. Any questions before I
as I'm pulling that up? Okay. All right. So, um this memo is from Paul to the council from last year. Uh, and it includes the report from the
um, RO group, stakeholder group. Um, Athena, I had a procedural question just right off the bat here. Why do we have to adopt a bylaw before approving a charge? Do you know?
>> That's a really good question. I'm not sure why the council needs to adopt a bylaw and a charge if they're both doing the same thing. I'd have to look at them more closely side by side. >> Okay. Thank you. I because I I got worried because we spent all this time
shifting from a bylaw to a charge for HRC and I I realized that was in there. So, okay, we will look into that. Um so, this is just an overview of kind of the the rough outlines of the process um or actions that would need to be taken. uh the I I I believe we would just need to
approve a charge and then the town manager is responsible for the executive kind of functioning of that uh of that body and bringing it up to full full staffing is not the right word but you know what I mean. Um and then
the um I also added to the packet a little bit late sorry a letter from the town attorney regarding the resident oversafe board. So some history of this here. The resident oversight board stakeholder group was convene created in 2024. Um
and they worked very hard is my understanding that they worked very hard to com come up with the options that that are in front of us today. Um they were comprised of community members, staff, uh members of the police union
and then they worked with two consultants. Oh, counselor Lord, you're here twice. Yay. Excellent. Um okay. Okay. So then they worked with two consultants um and came up with these two recommendations. So the highlevel recommendations are to establish a
resident oversight board accountable to the town council and town manager. Appoint seven diverse Ammeris residents with expertise in civil rights, community engagement and oversight. Center equity, anti-racism, transparency, and an accessible complaint process. Provide training,
public engagement, and reporting to the town council. And the notable thing here is that the stakeholder group did not reach consensus on the best model. The model, the first model is the review model. The second is the investigatory model, but that but they did propose a bylaw
charge, draft rules, regulations, and procedures for each of those options. So, um, in terms of our actions moving forward or kind of our process moving forward today, we might not actually fill the full hour because I think we're
going to need to spend some time reviewing and kind of establishing what clarifying questions we have for the town manager, for the members of the committee, or for the consultants, and then we can get answers for those as we go forward. I imagine that we will have lots of questions. Um, and if I'm wrong,
that's fine, but we'll we'll do our overview and ask uh figure out what questions we want to ask and we'll get answers going forward. Other questions so far? I'll admit I'm I'm I feel a bit like I'm muddling through this. It's a weird thing to have two options. So, I'm going
to ask for some grace from the committee as we as we go through. Um, okay. So, this is I'm going to skip the sample bylaw for right now just because I I really don't think we need that. Um,
Lynn, did you raise a hand? Sorry. Oh, okay. I think you just moved your hand and I wasn't fully looking. All right. So, this is our um our charge from the top from the this would be the sample charge. Let's take a minute and
read. And I know it's not perfectly in our format, but we can fix that. Let me know when you want me to continue to scroll. Okay. Um and again you can this in your packet as well. So,
if the committee thinks it would be helpful, I'm happy to review the proposed bylaws. Um, just again, I'm going to seek clarity. I do not believe we need to pass a bylaw in order to establish this commission, but I would like to get initial thoughts from from
the committee, initial reactions or initial questions that you have, Lynn. >> Yeah. Um, I appreciate the idea that we would establish a committee, but to me
the crux to the issue here is whether or not we're going to go which option we're going to recommend. Okay? >> And so you we cannot write a charge until we know that. We cannot write a bylaw until
we know that. And um we can't write rules and regulations until we have that. >> Right. So somehow or another, I believe that um
in fact it might even be well worth our while looking at the um video of the council meeting that included the presentation by the consultant, particularly the consultant that had long-term experience
with this kind of issue. uh and get a sense of what was said in that meeting. So if we can find the link for that meeting, I think it would be really helpful. That meeting was sometime last year.
>> Um and so in many ways it seems to me at least that we need to decide which option we're going with before we can kind of move forward with anything.
Okay. Thank you. >> Uh, councelor Ko Martin, >> I I just have a question about what something that you just read. Um, is it So, did you say that it's possible to have both options or is it just that the
bylaw is written in such a way that it will work for either option like the attachment A that we're we were looking at? So, my understanding is that not necessarily that we can have both options, but that we might come up with some sort of option C. um that is
different from both of these. My my point was the referral is not binding us to either of these. Whether or not that is a good idea for this committee to do after this specific group has established these two recommendations after a lot of work is a different question. Um but I just wanted to be
clear that this committee is not bound to only option one or option two. >> Okay, I see. But but the draft bylaw is written in such a way that it could be adapted for either option one or two or even potentially a third option. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to be clear
about what we were looking at. >> Yeah. So you can see up in throughout the bylaw um they'll it specify like the proposed bylaw specifies the the option one and option two. And I think that this will be helpful for us in understanding the implications the
intended implications of either decision as well as like Lynn said the um the meeting recording or presentation which I will I'll try to find and and maybe Athena and I can work together to clip just that part um for for the packet um
as well. >> Yeah. I mean, I I wonder um if it would be useful to just kind of see where we're all at right now in terms of the options just to like get like a straw poll as well. Um cuz if we all agree, then maybe, you know, we can just move
forward or figure out what more information that we need if we're not we don't know where we're at to make a decision. >> Um let me go to Council Ryan and then I'll see if folks are feeling decisively right off the bat. Council Red, >> I think first that Lynn's suggestion of
reviewing the video is a very good one. Um, I have my sort of initial thoughts on this, but I don't think they're worth a whole lot since I haven't really been thinking about it very much. Um, and viewing that video and hearing that report um would certainly be productive
for me at least in gathering my thoughts. I can certainly offer my thoughts right now. Um but I don't think they would have much weight. Um and so I think that that makes sense that we um be prior to our next gathering and next meeting um we all review that and take
notes um and then come back and have a discussion um as a group um about where we stand on the fundamental issue of either um a investigatory model or review model um ra I mean we could do a
straw poll now but I I think right now I'd rather uh listen to that and hear the the sort of back and forth and and then think some more before I say where I stand. Um other was just a point I if I read this correctly and I haven't read it that
closely I apologize but I believe the draft rules regulations and procedures and correct me if I'm wrong um is here simply FOI for our information um we don't actually write them um am I correct in that or am
I mistaken that they are actually to be um created by the review board itself and that they're here simply to guide the review board when they finally get formed. Am I right in that or do we actually vote on that as well? Do we
recommend the rules, regulations, and procedures? >> I think that what it would be fair to for this committee to recommend a draft, but it is not enacted until the committee votes on it. So, I think that it's fair for us to kind of
approve, quote unquote, approve a set of draft rules, regulations, and procedures for them to consider um so that they have a starting point, but they are not beholdened to those uh th those are not binding at this point because like you said, ultimately they are established,
but just so that they don't get lost. Um and because I think they're a solid starting place for for the RO, I think we should move them along with a recommendation. Does that >> So we would actually I mean I just feel like I'm like 5,000 feet over my head.
Um as you pointed out the enormous amount of time was spent on this by a whole group of people um who've thought about it far more than than we have. They had consultants involved. Um, so I'm extremely reluctant to start
tinkering with um, you know, I'm glad to read it and and offer my sort of sense of, you know, well, I wonder about this or that, but I can't imagine us tinkering with this um, other than saying we recommend one approach or the other um, overall. But I guess what
you're saying is we're going to have to at least read um dra document three um and perhaps weigh in in a broad sense about um which version we prefer. I guess yeah. Okay.
>> I mean, frankly, George, I think that we we often weigh in on things that we >> other people have spent more time than we have on. Uh so I think >> that's more just dotting eyes and crossing tees. This is really substantive, right? Uh yeah, >> really weighing in on the substance of
this. Um I guess what I'm saying I'll I'll shut up is that we should be very very um cautious in our approach >> um because people have worked a lot harder in this than we have and yes we do deal with substance but we should be very careful.
>> Yes, I think I think absolutely the intentionality is is critical in this. Um this is not something that was just put together as a as a proposal. It was the result of a lot of work. Um, and so I think that absolutely this is um, yes, I fully agree. I do think that we
should, you know, review if there if there are things that stick out to us. Um, I don't have the legal review up right in front of me, but if there were things that came up in the legal review, let's see if I had it open. um in the legal memo. Uh D
so we can review this and kind of do a do a cross check if there are things we want to flag um that maybe were missed. Hi puppy. Um sorry whenever a dog comes on screen I can't like you can't expect me to ignore that. Um it's perfect. So
yeah. Yeah. So, I I think that we'll we can ask questions and we absolutely have the right to make changes if we see fit. I don't anticipate that we will, like you said, make a lot of changes to things like the rules based on how they came into into fruition.
So, I want to go back to what Lynn said, which is really Oh, sorry, George. Did you have anything else? Apologize. >> I'm sorry. And maybe I'll hold off, but I was going to suggest listening to you maybe of what I'm seeing is like a five-step process. View the video,
>> come back and next meeting folks, try to make a resolution on investigatory versus review, then review the rules and regs. Um, then look at the legal review because I think that's going to raise some questions. Or maybe we should look at the legal review uh after we've uh
maybe you should look at the legal review after the video. Anyway, so >> yeah. Okay. So maybe first step video, second step legal review and then we the discussion and hopefully decision as to investigatory versus review and then
finally um review the rules and regs and then a final sort of resolution of statement or whatever vote or whatever we do. >> Yeah. Well, and don't forget that it's really the details of the charge um that we'd be looking at. >> So, George, I I generally agree with your your process here and I appreciate
you helping to I think I I was feeling similarly of way out of my depth of expertise on this and looking at it because um I don't this is not a field that I professionally have expertise in, right? And so I think it's helpful to
kind of nail down a process. So, what we can do, and this I guess will be a shorter discussion than anticipated, which is fine. Um, what we can do is put uh I I'll find the video and I'll clip it if I can uh get a copy of it that I'm
able to do that too or Athena can work on me work on that with me. >> Athena's already sent it. >> Athena, you are the fastest. It's because I've given her gold stars and she wants to see if I can figure out what's next. Athena, thank you very much. Um,
>> more please. Thank you. >> Is that something? So, Athena did send a a video to our email. Is that something Athena that we're able to put in the packet for next meeting as well? >> I can't put a uh I can put a document with a link to the video. Yeah,
>> perfect. That'd be great. Okay. So, homework would be review the video presentation um and questions asked by counselors um as well as the legal review. I also am going to recommend even though sorry you're just seeing my email that's a
nightmare. Um even though you are we're not dealing with the um whatchamacall the bylaw. I do think that this gives helpful context um as we are going through to understanding the charge. And I'm going to look into what
I'm going to do before our next conversation on this is figure out if it is something that we can do without a bylaw. Um, and if so, are there any elements of the bylaw that need to be pulled into the charge? Cuz right now the charge is pretty light. Um, and there might be pieces that are in the
bylaw but not in the charge that we would like to see in there. Does that make sense? Okay. Um, Lynn, >> the other option to always keep in mind is you can do a bylaw and have a sunset clause in it or an evaluation to
proceed. So, one of the because this is since this is such a new concept for Ammerst, there may be a reason to want to do it, evaluate it, and then decide whether or not we're going to continue with it the way the way it is.
>> Why can I ask a a clarifying question? >> Why does that have to be via bylaw? Why not have that in the charge of this charge will be revisited in two years? because my concern is establishing we we just talked about with HRC not
establishing committees via bylaw because it is a different it's a different level and it's confusing in terms of making changes. >> So So are you suggesting that like we're looking like we're going to
do now with the HRC is we won't have a bylaw. We would just have a committee. >> Correct. A charge. Okay. In that case, forget what I just said. >> Okay. Okay. Councelor Ryan,
>> do we need KP Law next time when we do the legal review? >> I think that if you if any committee member reviews the legal memo and still has questions because it's a pretty thorough legal memo um in my opinion. I
mean, it's okay. It's it's only four pages, but still um I think that if you have questions, please let me know once you've reviewed that memo. Um and I will ask them to join at whenever at what meeting they can join if there are further questions. But I think that a
lot of I don't think that we should necessarily bring them in until we have something for them to look at um that we've agreed on. That's kind of my take on it, but I'm happy to hear other perspectives if people disagree.
So, I do want to make sure that if there are any questions that are coming up that we need answers from the town manager, from the consultants, uh consultants and members of the committee or anyone else um that we have a chance to get those to the people that need to
answer them as quickly as possible. Um, are there questions right now that folks are would like to note and I will compile those and I understand if there are not and if you need time to review the videos and such. Need time? No questions yet. Okay.
So, we have um our next meeting is on May 12th. Um, and the at that meeting we will all have viewed the video. I would like it because you got some time before
May 12th and it's two weeks. Um, please if you can review the video and all of the memos this week and send me questions by via email just to me, not to the entire committee. Please um please send me those questions so that I can compile them and get them out so
that I can hopefully get answers in time for our meeting. Uh I will also draw your attention we had two different public comments come in from bodies that are closely related to this work. Um and I did place both of those in the packet. I just wanted to clarify I am not typically in the practice of putting
public comments in the packet. The reason why I put these particular two in are they from groups who have directly worked on this project. Um so just wanted to clarify why there are two public comments in your packet today. Um, and uh, and one, yeah, one is from
the CSSJC, um, and the other is from, I don't want to mess up the name of it, from the, uh, Ammeris Police Supervisors and Ammeris Police League. So, like the quote unquote unions. That's funny. Um,
so yes, so the two police unions. Um, you can review those as please review those as well. Uh okay. So I think that we'll move on then in our agenda having our plans set. Um at our next meeting we
will look at the details of the charges. Um we'll put it I'll have it in editable form so that we can mess around with it. If there are items I would encourage you to mark print out or mark up however you want the copies of that memo especially if there are elements from the bylaw
that you want to move into a charge. um please come prepared with those and if you are able by the next meeting to kind of have a feeling as to which model you would prefer um that'll be helpful for us and that'll probably be we we'll go through general discussion questions and
then we'll sort of do that where we're at. I am getting the feeling that folks aren't ready to make a declarative statement that not everyone is ready to make a declarative statement one way or another between option one and option two. There's that. Is there anyone who's feeling so ready that you want to go for
it? No. Okay. All right. So, with that then we will move on. Um, I want to thank the folks in the audience who did join us for this. Apologies. It was a little antilimactic. We want to make sure that we have our heads fully wrapped around this topic. Um, and we have not been able to talk about it as a committee
yet. So hopefully you are clear on our plan of action and will join us again as we continue to discuss this with a little bit more cognizance as to where we're going. Um, good to move on. Okay, my notes are
going to be such a mess in this report. All right. Uh, next item on our agenda is to do some proclamations. Um, but before we do that, let's do the let's finish up the Human Rights Commission bylaw and charge and then we'll go to to
proclamations. Does that sound good? All right. So, I cleaned up the charge that we worked on last time. Hang on. Hang on. I got you. All right. So, I cleaned up the charge that we worked on last time so that you could
see it without all of the messy lines. We are still missing our charter sections. I I just need to find those and then type. Um I wasn't clear on what I should put there. Um and then I wanted to we've got some
comments comments to resolve and then we're ready to vote this thing. I think I hope >> not so fast. >> George, don't do this to me. >> Can you blow this up a bit? Is it >> Sorry. I've got That's all right. Thank you. >> I've got you all too big and then this
too small. blow it up even more because I'm going to be my face is going to be right in the screen here. >> All right, tell me when it's good. >> Well, I'm not the only one, but >> I want to make sure everybody can see Athena. >> You're not alone, George. Don't worry.
>> That's I'm sorry. >> I said to George, he's not alone. >> Yeah, he is not. And then I think Athena had some guidance for type. >> Yep. So for type the options are ad hoc council council ad hoc town or town. So
if this is a regular town committee then it would be a town. >> I believe it's we don't approve it. So it's regular town committee. >> What is what suggestions >> and it's ongoing. So it seems to me it would be a town committee. >> So you just write town.
>> Oh it seems so short. Okay fine. >> I know. >> Um all right. I think if you magically find the charter section numbers, I do have a sticker here that I'm ready to give you. >> Uh by the council are under charter 2.5.
>> The appointing authority. You said >> the appointing authority if it's the town manager then it's in accordance with charter section 3.3C. Okay. Um, just going to show off my stickers for
Athena, which say nerdicorn on them because she's a unicorn of knowledge and also a little bit of a nerd in the best way. Okay. Um, okay. Thank you so much. That's really helpful. All right. Composition. >> You want to make seven.
>> You have seven and nine. You need to resolve seven. Are you all looking at the same? >> Yep. It says nine. Up above it says seven. >> Wait, hang on. >> Yes, we changed it or we I suggested >> we changed it. You're right. I see it. I see it. We landed on seven, right?
>> That's what I heard. Yeah, >> I just accepted my comment, my my change, and apparently it went the wrong way. All right, seven residents. I'm going to kind of do this as a straw poll like paragraph by paragraph. Are we good to move on?
Okay. First section of purpose. Okay. Okay. Ah, there's a period missing. I knew it was there. Um, in the second paragraph under purpose, um, after the word visitors in line four or five, I think it's >> Oh, yeah. Thank you.
That's okay. >> And otherwise, I I was fine with it. >> What's our little bubble for? >> Uh, I wanted us to cross-check these with protected classes. And then we needed the thing we need to add in is the equal opportunity to participate in
and access local affairs. The one difference that's missing I think here is gender and then gender expression is often included if folks are okay with me adding that. Um, so we need language that talks about
the access to participate in or equal opportunity to participate in and access local my god affairs. Um, is I think would it go right here? The purpose of the protect human rights of
town of Ammeris residents and visitors. Uh, the commission seeks to ensure The Commission also seeks to ensure equal opportunity
and access. Wait, I'm going to fix it in a second. to local affairs. Uh Google did anyone else struggling after a late meeting? Uh >> yes.
>> Okay. The commission also seeks to ensure equal opportunity to participate in and access. That doesn't seem correct, but I don't know how. Why? Help me help me understand why this is here and what um
the body can actually do. I mean the others are defined in law and there's certain things >> some of them >> well okay but there's but when you know someone I mean for instance um on TSO we're dealing with you know citizens
feeling like you know they can't get information or that the website is confusing or >> you know some of them feel like well you know I keep applying for town manager uh you know appointed bodies and I never get appointed and Um so is this what
this is saying is that those individuals have are welcome to come to the human rights commission and and and tell their story. And what can the human rights can Yeah. Um that's is that what this is about? >> Um I think Oh, Athena, just a heads up
your Okay, you got it. Um, I I'm gonna look to I think Amber had had pitched this or talked about this last time. I could be wrong, but I think that this was Yes, that is a little bit about what this is about in terms of kind of
supporting that access to not to local government broadly. Um, Amber, Amber, is that I'm sorry, Councelor Can Martin, is that your recollection as well? I think that Yeah, I think that's what that was about. I mean, I remember we all thought that was important. We just wanted to figure out what the wording was going to be.
>> Yeah. >> But usually, I mean, the the issue is usually usually I don't know, but it's often seems to be referenced in terms of because of my gender or my race or my status as as a disabled person or
whatever, right? I mean, that's usually what But, you know, I also have we have people come and say, "Tom Andrew just won't point me to this body, and I don't like that." Um, >> so you're saying it should go here. >> Well, I'm not I'm not sure what it's
actually I mean, obviously there's equal opportunity that the law we believe guarantees people and this is not a legal issue. this is sort of a a fairness or equity issue. Um, and the
commission wants to ensure that everyone in town feels like they have an equal opportunity to participate and and have access uh well, the wording is still a little clunky, but participate in and have
I mean, you participate in local affairs, you have access to information. Um but uh involvement I don't know something like that. >> I guess I'm just trying Yeah, somebody help me here. I just >> Well, I'm struggling with what does
access to local affairs mean? >> Well, that doesn't mean anything. >> Well, I was I was thinking I mean accessibility could mean in terms of folks who may have a disability or may have a language barrier. >> Okay. >> So, that that could be part of it. um
>> maybe you know people who aren't able to for example attend inerson meetings for um you know whatever re I don't know I guess that's what >> right right >> accessibility >> and they can come to the commission and say look um you know I can't get access or I'm being kept from involvement in
local affairs because of of of a particular issue like that and the commission can hear them and then perhaps make a recommendation or advocate on their behalf. Is that the idea? >> Yeah, I think so. Okay. All right. Well, then we just Yeah. Okay.
>> So, maybe we should say ensure equal opportunity to participate in local government. Well, it's not >> Yeah, >> I think that there's a per that one
could argue there is a difference between how people would perceive the word participate in and access. Um, and I think that while even watching a council meeting is
participating in some sense, it may not always be taken that way. And I think that access is a more easily understandable phrase to to make clear that the breadth of what we're talking about. Because when you say participate in, you
know, I think that generally there are going to be a lot of people that read that and think that you're talking about just running for council or school committee. >> Um, >> so differently, but >> yeah, we need to do something with this wording, I think. But I I'm getting a
better understanding, I think, of what lies behind it. And there will be obviously a certain, you know, I don't know, gray area or whatever, but it's essentially trying to um give people a a way that they can get some sort of
redress or at least be heard if they feel that they are being denied, how we putting it, the ability to participate in local affairs or gain access to
I mean again I would say gain access to information but maybe that's not really it. It's maybe just uh the ability to be to be engaged and active in in local affairs and it could be a a language barrier. It could be a you know a
disabilities issue. Um it could be any number of things but that's what this is supposed to be addressing. So then how about to ensure opportunity to engage in local affairs? >> I mean uh >> and it's not an equal opportunity. It's
just an opportunity, right? I mean it's um >> we say local government instead of local affairs affairs field. >> Yeah. Local governments, >> right? Right. >> Only local ones, not regional. Right.
>> Um, >> okay. So, commission seeks to ensure that no person public or private shall be denied any rights guaranteed pursuant to local, state, or federal law. And seeks to ensure understood. >> Thank you. Seeks to >> these aren't going to be separate
paragraphs. I'm just as we work on. >> I understand. Seeks to ensure Right. with >> equal opportunity to engage in local government. >> Oh, that sounds right. we could say to participate.
>> I was going to say engage and participate in. Is that is that I mean it's not only engaged but partic right it's not just to be able to you know >> doesn't participate include engagement. >> No >> I think there for me those those read
very similar I would doesn't matter between the two. >> Well engagement could simply be the issue as Amber brought up of you know I just can't access this meeting because of a language barrier or I can't you know get access to this I can't engage in this because of X. um participation
would cover some of the things. Well, okay. I guess you >> I think Well, so I think where I'm stuck, George, is I think engage with and engage in are different. And and I know that that's semantics, but I think engage with to me reads as someone who
is not a member of the body, >> right? >> Working with the body and engage in means becoming a member of the body. So >> circle opportunity to engage in or Or maybe and engage in >> and or
>> Yeah. And >> I love a good andor. >> I know. Yeah. >> And access local government. Okay. >> Regardless of >> Amber, what do you think of that? Does is that any better or worse or >> um Anna, does that solve your issue with
the engage in or engage? >> I think so. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Then I can go with that. Yeah. >> It it seems to address the concern that you raised. It seems okay. Good. All right. >> Um >> All right. >> Above we say gender identity or
expression. >> Um okay. So then if we put this all in a nice little bundle. >> Yeah. >> Right. The list. Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So now I'm going to grab that. So, straw poll. How are we feeling about the purpose section? >> What happened to that last sentence? >> That was my brainstorm. Uh, it was about engaging in local affairs.
>> Okay. >> All right. Okay. I feel good about it. >> Okay. >> Uh, Amber. Yes. Councelor Lord. Yes. Okay. Great. And the shs. I think we had clarified
this part. I'm gonna delete. >> Yeah. >> I Yeah, I have a few minor suggestions. I beg your indulgence. >> Okay. Well, can I can I >> constrain you a bit? One through five. Let's start there.
>> So, four. I just have a thought on four. And it's it's a small one and feel free to just say drop it. >> It's it just seems a little clunky. um issues in the town, state, nation or world. I was going to suggest either dropping that completely and just saying
recommend resolutions, proclamations, citations on human rights for adoption by the town council. It doesn't it leaves it wide open. If you feel that we should mention it, then you could say locally, nationally, and international. So, I had two thoughts. I just find the
language a little bit, it's just clunky, and maybe it doesn't bother any of you. If it doesn't, let's move on. But I was going to offer either just dropping it and just saying, "Look, they can recommend resolutions, proclamations, citations on any issue of human rights they want to."
>> Well, not about ones on Mars. Um, yeah, I think >> we haven't gotten there yet, but soon we will be. >> I I think George, I I don't disagree with you, but I No. Well, hang on. No, no, no. I don't disagree. I I I fully agree. I I'm going to guess that the reason why that was placed in there was
to explicitly state that it is within their um charge to to suggest a proclamation that has nothing to do with directly with Ammerst. Um, and so I think that so long as it's the committee thinks that it will be
clear to future interpreters of this that it is well within their right to recommend a proclamation or citation pertaining to human rights other than just in Emerst. I I am comfortable because I agree that it's unnecessarily clunky.
>> Is anyone Is anyone what >> Okay. Um, so we're what's the language we're changing it to? Just locally, nationally, or >> Well, that was a suggestion, and maybe that doesn't sound any better, but I was going to suggest locally, nationally, internationally. >> Oh, I'm sorry, George. I thought you
just said delete it at first. >> Well, either one. I prefer to delete it and just just say, look, they can make a resolution on whatever they want related to human rights. Um, and just drop the whole clause. But your thought is that they might want it to be explicit. And
if they do, then maybe we should just leave the language as it is. And it the other option was if you want to have it explicit, just say locally, nationally or internationally. But that's that's language. I don't know. >> I don't think it needs to be explicit. I
think this is this suffices. Lynn, >> I would leave it at that and and take it out because frankly, as we have seen with many other governing local bodies, some people have ruled or actually passed
bylaws or what measures uh that basically say we will only do proclamations etc on local issues. So if we don't want that to be the case then I would just take that out. >> Wait wait wait wait. If we are you
advocating to take to take it out be can can you >> so that we're not restricted at all. Do you feel like this is restricted if we say in the town, state, nation, or world? >> No, but I think it's also much looser if
you just let it go. >> Okay. Councelor Ken Martin. >> Yeah, I think I would be fine with deleting it. And then I was just going to say, is there a reason why we've capitalized human rights? Can we just Is that a stamp document?
>> I I want to comment. >> It is not consistently capitalized through the document. I believe that it was because it was a previously a definition and we didn't catch it. So, I'm going to I'm going to lowercase it. Thank you for catching that. >> Um, Amber has just joined the editorial
elite. >> You get a special badge after you do five of these badge in the mail. >> You can also have a nerdicorn sticker. >> Um, I don't know where I I made them a long time ago. All right.
>> So, one through five. Are we okay? >> All right. Five. >> Oh, wait. We got hands. Lynn, >> no. I'm sorry. That was earlier. >> That's okay. Counselor Lord. >> Okay. So, grammar is not my strong point, but >> that's okay. >> Human rights is capitalized and that's
is that because you're talking about the director in number three or would we also make that lower case? >> It is capitalized specifically because it's the director. >> That's what I thought. Thank you. >> Good job. Yes. Um, >> she gets a star.
>> Everybody, you know, stars all over the place today. >> It's only >> so one through five. We're good. >> Five. Five. >> Oh, George has something on five. Sorry. Go ahead. >> Sorry. >> Again, I just I want to try and polish
the language and if you don't like it, just throw it out. It's no big deal. But it's right write right out. reserve as a forum for residents to make a report and that just seems I mean people don't make reports um so committees make
reports commissions make reports but residents come as I was going to suggest serve as a forum for residents to give voice to their concerns so it's a wording suggestion because I object to the idea that they're making a report they're not unless I need to be
corrected and in fact they are. So I was going to suggest serve as a forum for residents to give voice to their concerns, complaints or questions. Drop the of regarding so give voice to their concerns
regarding discrimination blah blah blah blah blah or regarding any activities. So I was going to just tidy up the wording a bit if you think that makes it better. I really thought I could get away with not having track changes on, but I don't think I can anymore.
>> I'm sorry. >> No, please don't apologize for doing what you're supposed to do. >> Serve as a forum for residents to make a report or sorry, to give voice to their >> Give voice to their concerns. Yes. Give voice to their >> uh complaints or questions of
discrimination or unequal treatment of an individual. You had something else different. >> Well, I want to put it in. So after concerns, complaints, comma or questions strike of after questions
and regarding insert regarding. So questions regarding discrimination or unequal treatment of an individual or regarding because otherwise the ors start any activities. So it's regarding
discrimination or regarding activities which threaten. >> Okay. I just thought that was sounded better. >> It's very nice. >> People think >> thoughts on that. >> And you won't hurt my feelings if you want to just keep it the way it is.
Trust me. Um but that was a thought. Give people give people a voice. >> I'm going to do just that. Councelor Canart, did you unmute to because you had a thought here. >> No, I was just going to say that. Yeah, that looks good. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's move to I'm gonna
accept these changes. Um, and just we can read again just to make sure we got it all right and I didn't miss any. >> All right. >> Okay. >> And then six. I have one thing for six and then I'm
>> Okay. Six and seven are next. So go ahead with six council. >> Uh, we have where appropriate make referrals to appropriate bodies. I hate that. So where appropriate make referrals
>> regarding any concerns, complaints, da da da da, and appropriate comes at the very end. So it's just a little thing, but try to just make it. So I would just strike appropriate bodies concerning. Strike that two appropriate bodies concerning and just insert the word
regarding where appropriate make referrals regarding then the text and then you get the appropriate party at the end. So not concerning concerning any concerns. You didn't like that. >> I didn't like that. I don't know why. And then insert regarding.
>> All right. Regarding any >> that was a suggestion. >> Wait, hang on. Come. Okay. Is that right? >> Let's look at it. >> Oh, wait. body is
>> get rid of that last. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, what's happening? What are you doing? What are you doing? Stop. Stop. Stop. >> Oh, anyone? Okay. Where appropriate, make referrals regarding any concerns, complaints, or questions of discrimination, unequal treatment, or human rights violations brought to the
attention of the commission, including without limitation by referring any such man. Yeah. So, yes, that that should be taken out. You're right. That meaning I don't want to get hollered at again here. >> No, you're not hollering. I'm just I'm I'm yelling at the tech screen, not you.
>> What is the without including without limitation part? >> That's legal language that I didn't question. I just said okay. >> I think I think if we just say such as the it's fine. >> Okay. Well, >> doesn't doesn't without limitation mean we can add others.
>> Yeah, exactly. Thank you. >> I just don't think we need both though. So can we just say including without limitation the >> okay I don't think we need the second appropriate bodies >> yeah exactly that you that's fine that's perfect
>> the attention to brought to the attention of the commission including without limitation >> the we did we took out the second appropriate bodies >> no we didn't >> we it's only in rights violations brought to the attention of the
commission including without limit. Oh god. Um referred should be referred with including without limitation to and then get rid of >> where are you seeing
>> the second appropriate bodies is only one in here once. So the final thing would be >> where >> where appropriate and appropriate bodies are in there. What? Why don't you say relevant then, Lyn? I mean, Anna, you were you were gonna say relevant the
second time. >> I was okay. >> Okay, >> that's good. >> Okay, >> accept all my fun things. I know there's a double space. Hush, hush, hush. Um, all right.
Oh god, I like love hate. Oh my god, stop. You know what my favorite thing is? Typing on a screen when everybody watches you. I'll accept that later. Um, okay. Seven. Thought this one was pretty cut and dry.
Oh, I'm sorry. Len, your hand is up. I apologize. >> No, I'm sorry. Okay. >> Sorry. >> Okay. Reports. >> Good. Should we just say within this charge? It doesn't matter. All right.
Hey, are we uh done with this? >> Yes. Put it through. >> Put it through spell and grammar. >> What? Um it always it it tells you as you go. I actually don't think it even has any. Um okay.
I'm gonna dare I say go to my report here. Drafts here. So, just remember, we have to resend the existing bylaw. >> We have to recommend the town council rescend the existing bylaw. >> Resend and replace. Okay.
>> Um, but it's not a it's not a rescend and a place replace because we're not replacing. >> Oh, that's right. We're not we're just Right. Okay. Good. Um, just res. >> So, we are the Let's do Let's do the recent recision.
Recion. Thanks. Um, >> this would be to recommend the town council resend. Oh god. What does anyone have the bylaw number? Can anyone find that for me? >> Let me try.
>> I'll try to find it. But why don't why don't you continue on? >> Yeah. All right. We'll do the other one first. Is there a motion to recommend the Human Rights Commission charge as presented to the town council for adop approval and adoption?
I moved. >> I second. >> Okay. Um, any other discussion? >> Okay, let's call the vote. Councelor Lord >> I. >> Councelor Kenna Martin
>> I. >> Lynn >> I >> I am an I. And councelor Ryan >> I. >> Excellent. Great. Okay. >> It's Uh, it's bylaw 3.3, Human Rights
and Human Rights Commission. >> I feel like I need to add something in this motion. >> It's artic It's article 3, general bylaws 3.3, human rights and human rights. >> Article 3.3 of the general bylaws.
Um, I feel like I want to put something in here that says because we wrote a charge that it doesn't just look like we're rescending it. But I >> can I suggest that we really need to um look at the entire bylaw that's in there
because um it's really only starting with C that a human rights commission is established. And so we may not be we may not not want to wipe out the entire bylaw but only the piece that um
of deals with um the issue of the chart of the human rights. >> Well a definitions >> yeah see I I don't think we want to wipe out an entire human rights bylaw.
I think we need to ask what the purpose of it existing in our bylaws is if not to establish the the human rights commission because they might what what my concern is Lynn is that if they determine their own definitions that
then might be different than what we have in the bylaws are we now saying they are not able to do that. Um, so I think what I'm hearing from you is we want to maintain our emphasis on the importance of this um by not deleting it. And I think my concern is that we
accidentally are kind of again binding this committee to something that may not be what they want to hold. >> Um, >> I'm trying to just hang on. I'm just following up. >> Look out. It as Athena pointed out, I believe it was Athena as section A is
definitions. Section B says no person shall be denied any rights guaranteed pursu it's just the language we already have in the charge. Section C is there shall be a human rights commission which is language we have in the charge and it spells out what the commission does and
it it does establish a human rights director but I believe that is also is that that's so D establishes a human rights director >> if yeah >> sorry I was just going to say again I think because this was created at a
point where town meeting had to create a bylaw in order to create a staffing position And I don't think that we need that in the bylaws. This might Okay, let's keep let's let's let's mul it, Lynn.
>> Yeah, I think we've got to look at the bylaw before we because >> this is Sorry, it's up now. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm Thank you. I'll go back to the your screen. I was looking at my screen. >> No problem. >> Um it seems to me that what we're really
doing is I think that we cannot not delete some of this because it now runs counter to the charge that we just established. Um so so section A are definitions relating to the rest
of the the document. Um, we could just keep this, but we have expanded it in our in our charge because it's what the commission seeks to do. All of C needs to go. All of D needs to
go because um it dictates the specific process for reviewing complaints which we now have said is up to the commission and this is again this is my commit my opinion um very clearly specifies that out. E needs to go because it is now
duplicating what we've said. Uh E and F both are duplicating what we've said the committee will do in its charge. So the only thing that isn't now changed per the committee
charge is just this statement which is the non-discrimination blanket non-discrimination statement. Um which I believe the town already has held elsewhere. But if we would like to continue to state it here, we could we could keep that. Um I do think that this
is I mean this is kind of the classic that you see everywhere. >> So yeah, >> the bylaw itself um can state that we have to have a human rights commission and that would
be it. And then the charge for the human rights commission picks up on that part of the bylaw. >> It can, but we don't do that for any other committee that we have. >> Why Why would we do it for this? I don't Yeah.
>> And we just talked about with the RO not doing it for that. >> Right. Right. It's >> so I don't I would argue against that precedent because there are plenty of commissions and committees we've created that are not uh in the bylaws.
>> I can buy that. So are we leaving A and B? >> I don't think that we need I I >> don't what what purpose does it serve? Let me ask that before I say I don't think we need it. >> Fine. If we don't need it, are we
leaving anything in section 3.3 and are we going to just call it human rights? >> We're going to resend it is what we're going to do. >> Are we rescending the whole thing? >> Yeah, we're going to resend the whole thing. >> So that nowhere in our bylaws do we
refer anywhere to human rights. >> So I think that was my argument for keeping a possibly a blanket non-discrimination clause. Um >> I was going to say is it anywhere do we have something like that anywhere else in our like our charter our our bylaws
because if we do then I I don't think we need to repeat it but if we don't then I would be concerned. >> I believe that the town holds this broadly in its non-discrimination statement as an equal opportunity employer. Um, and so it it holds that it holds this I think believe exact
statement um as that kind of in the way that most organizations do. Um, but that could be interpreted as not broad enough as our bylaws are. So I think that would be my argument is I think the middle ground here if I'm
understanding what Lynn is saying is that if we keep just this piece um and and call it just 3.3 human rights no person shall be denied any rights um that I think is a broad
clear statement. So then we are doing a rescend and replace. >> I mean it could. Yeah, I guess if but if that's what the committee wants, I'm happy to hear arguments for if if we should remove or not. I I want to I would like
to know what purpose this serves in our bylaws versus broadly if the town has this as a as a policy. because I mean this is what this is saying is like
it we're gonna follow the the law. Um see in some ways I want to take this and say take B and just add to it for this purpose the town shall establish a human
rights commission end. But Lynn, for for some of this purpose, we also have a a a commission for persons with disabilities. We also have like there are other bodies that seek to further this cause. And so I think that we start
if when we start mentioning specific groups, we get into a really slippery slope of needing to put any group that supports any sort of human right, which we have a lot of them in there. I just find I I for some reason I'm having a serious difficulty of wiping
out of our bylaws anything that refers to human rights. >> Okay. And so I'm trying to figure out how to make B the only statement under here and just call it human rights.
Is there opposition to just having 3.33 read human rights and keeping it just as the statement in what is currently 3.3b? >> I mean I >> I was just going to say I I would like some time to look at other town
documents and see is spelled out and is see if it feels necessary to do it. >> Okay. Um, so we can hold on this this specific part and I can include that
um in my report. Um, okay. All right. So, >> a bylaw is is not a place. It's it's really you're specifying some kind of concrete activity or action, not just
broad principles. It's not a constitution. Um, so I'm not I mean this bylaw as it exists now uh basically leads to the creation of a comm of a of a human rights uh body right with specific
powers etc. If you just have a statement that we believe in human rights that sounds like something that belongs in a constitution or a preamble it's not a bylaw. >> And I'm struggling with that because I I don't disagree with you George. I'm just trying to
I'm trying to anticipate what it looks like to go to the council and say we are going to resend the entire human rights and human rights commission bylaw. I think yeah I I guess that's where the
part of to what end is is coming through and and I I think that so long as we are all very clear that this is still something that the town is hold like we're not we are not eliminating the practice um
then I then I think it's it's really more procedural than anything else. I think the other question here is is this something that should be if we say it's bylaws are in our constitution should this be in the charter in some sense right like is that a recommendation
there um because that is closer to our constitution than other things so >> so that's I I think this can be um >> yeah I think there's there's further discussion could be warranted um it doesn't I don't know if we'll get to
resolution on this tonight. Um, and I'm trying to look at our timing. Sorry, one second. So, my god, the tabs the tabs are coming for me. Okay. >> I go ahead.
No, I'm just to be honest, up until now, I had not looked at the bylaw itself as it appears in our um bylaws and it just seems so strange to
take anything referring to human rights out of our bylaws. >> Can I ask why? Like what where are the sticking point? I' I've heard you saying that it feels it feels challenging or feels strange. >> I mean, it just seems like a basic
uh thing that every town should honor and honor in some way that it states it. And I realize what you're saying. Oh, yes, you know, we, you know, we have clauses that say this at the end of each
of our employment things, etc., etc., but that's not a bylaw. A bylaw is, you know, there's really kind of a couple of more sacred documents, bylaws, charters, those starts with those, too. State laws of course and federal. But I think
what's interesting to me in this is that some of the other communities that I read um where they had they had established their human rights commissions through their bylaws instead of through a charge like we are didn't have this statement in there at all. they just had there shall be a human
rights commission pretty pretty cut and dry. So, you know, I I think if we want to take time to review this um look at other sources, try to figure out what each of us is comfortable with, we can we can do that or we can recommend the
kind of the clear decisions that we know we need to make and recommend the council have further discussion on um 3.3 whatever letter be um I think we if we hold off that's
fine. I I think my >> I'd love to go ahead >> desire to get this off of our plate and back to the council is strong. I fully admit that. So, what we could say, we we the committee seems clear that we'd like to rescend the remaining articles and that we would like the council to
discuss rescending article 3.3b possible. Maybe that's the way to go. >> We're not going to recommend. We're just going to say talk about it. >> No, I could recommend it and then see what the response is.
>> Yeah. Right. If somebody has I mean you >> and nobody else may feels feel like I do. I I'm just being I don't know oldfashioned. >> Well, I can I mean I I could see like it the headlines will sound bad. It's like Ammerst Town Council resins human rights bylaw without any context. It could be
taken. >> Now you're catching where I'm coming from. >> Yeah. And if people don't read the full story then it might sound like we had an intention that we didn't have, you know, in doing that. I mean there there is one thing in the existing bylaw that I don't
think we've discussed and I hate to bring it up but it's right there in front of us. This whole business of genetic information that goes within >> so what is that a big deal? I mean I apparently >> it's just a definition that is included
in the non-discrimination clause >> right? Um, >> personally, I don't know. I I think that's where for me this gets frustratingly messy is I I I don't think our non-discrimination clause needs definitions. However, um, be or we need
to define all of them. I don't I'm not clear as to why just those two are pulled out. There is certainly not clear consensus on a lot of other definitions that are included in the in these identities. Um, so for me personally, I would rather keep it
just statement B. Um, but I have a feeling that if we try to keep statement B and remove A, I will get push back on that. Um, so I think it's >> I was just saying there's no the phrase
genetic information I believe does not occur. >> It does >> in the chart. It does >> in the in the here. Let me pull it up again. >> All right. It is there. >> It's right there. Yeah. >> All right. Fine. I missed it. Sorry.
>> But I mean, am I like maybe I'm being a little bit dramatic about this, but I think are we defining all of these or are we just picking two? >> And it it makes no sense. I agree. It
nobody resinned. Just just get this. Go away. Go away. I think that in most places where you see non-discrimination clauses, they are not defined specifically in something like a bylaw. Um because but I think that if we do some we we have to do all I don't I
think that my guess is this was these were maybe possibly new terms um when the bot was drafted or something like that and so clarification was helpful. Athena, do you have insights for us here? I I've just been while you've been chatting I've been browsing other city
uh bylaws to see if there are any with that refer to human rights and the only that I found and I looked at five or six um the only pertain the only ones that I found pertain to a human rights commission. There are none that are
merely a declaration of rights. So, um, an option that the committee might consider is to, you know, take some time to sit with this and you can make a recommendation about the recision at your next meeting. I don't think there's, you know, an an urgency to deal with this. I, we're not planning on
hearing this on the council agenda on the 4th. That's already fairly full. Um, and so if you come back to this on the 12th and make a recommendation, then we could take it up. I mean, it's up to the president obviously, but the the council could take it up on the 18th and you we wouldn't lose any time.
>> That was my question was whether or not we'd be slowing folks down, >> Lynn. you know, so again, I just want to go back to the idea that instead of a headline that says we've gotten rid of our human rights
um in our bylaws, um something that's very simple and says and for this purpose shall establish appropriate committees such as and or just appropriate committees. Just leave it at that.
Um that's the substitute >> for the rescend and replace and everything else goes into the in >> I will for myself I I still don't like it um because again it sets a precedent for when we establish other committees
uh for any other reason and so I think that um you know I I think if I I do think that there are ways to frame this motion um and you know Say instead of just resend, we can say like I move
upon the create upon the approval of the charge establishing the human rights commission or reestablishing the human whatever upon approval of the human rights commission charge recision of right like we can include other language so that it's not as clear as standalone
if if folks are concerned about the optics of it but if we put optics aside I think we need to make the decision that makes the sense for our bylaws and our logic and like logically um and so if we pretended that this was not this
is everyone understood every single reason why we make the decisions we make um and aren't just looking at headlines what would we do because I think that's what's the most responsible thing to to steward the bylaws here um and I I do worry about setting precedent I mean we
looked at this and we were like why is this why is this in the bylaws in the first place. Um, and it didn't make sense. And so I I I worry about kind of leaving elements of what we were like, this makes no sense in the first place. Council Cano Martin.
>> Um, I just want to clarify though. Can we still recommend that the charge be voted at the next council meeting? >> We can recommend the charge be approved by the town council. We can't say what council meeting it'll be approved at. >> Okay. But we we we did that. I just want to make sure we >> I would like to We haven't done it yet,
but I would I by golly I'm going to get that off our darn plate today. >> Just the one part. >> No, we we voted it. We voted. >> Oh, wait. Oh, we did. Thank god. >> We're all good with a charge. >> This is why I write things down, though, guys. Otherwise, I'm I'm lost it. Okay,
so I'm happy. I'm sorry. Councelor Kart, did you have additional >> No, no, I just wanted to make sure we got that done. >> Yeah, >> we did. Now that I've confirmed it and have not made you vote again, my god. Um, so we can continue discussion.
Discussion will continue. >> But my question is what are we going to do between this meeting and the next meeting to come to resolution on this? Because I have a feeling this discussion might just be one we don't agree on um or something like that. So, I want to make sure that
we are not delaying this to the next meeting just because we know we don't have an answer. Um, but that we are delaying this until the next meeting because we are going to do something in the time between meetings to come to a solution. So, are there questions that people have? We want uh we can look at
additional research. Athena did a little. We can look at additional research. What questions do we need answered by the next meeting in order to make a decision? Council Ryan, on that topic or anything else? No, on that topic, my homework would be to try and
get some clarity on what the ultimate purpose and function of bylaws happens to be and is it a place for um annunciating broad principles as opposed to so I want to get some clarity on what
bylaws are supposed to be doing and um I guess you could I mean Lynn's suggestion is you just put in a broad statement then you say pursuant to this broad statement we're going to create a human rights uh right commission and then that's it. Um but
so I I I just don't think that's what you're going to find in most bylaws out there and it's not sure that's really what bylaws do, but I can I can stand corrected. So I would try to find out between now and the next meeting if this is something that's commonly done or
even should be done in a bylaw as opposed to a charter or some other kind of document. That's my homework. Okay, that sounds good. That's good homework. I I approve. >> Um are there Sorry, someone says Go ahead. >> Oh, yeah. No, I would just add to like
it I would like to spend some time looking at our bylaws and our charter to see if there's anywhere else this comes up or maybe on the website. Um and also if any other towns like how they sort of enshrine their commitment to human rights, like are there any other towns that how do they how do they do that
basically? Um in what document or what, you know, what forum do they do that? Light research. All right. Does that kind of capture Okay. Um, hey, guess what? We finally got this
charge back to the council. Yay. Even though I forgot immediately after that we had voted. Um, okay. So, we'll come back to that topic at our next meeting. We've got a couple Any other last thoughts on this before we move on in our agenda?
Okay, great. Thank you all so much. I was so optimistic and I was like 10 minutes on the HRC charge then we'll be done. Okay. I should have I shouldn't have I I know that. Um we've got three proclamations ahead of us. So let's tackle those now. Um we're going to
start I'm going to do them in the orderish that I got them. I think first up is town of proclamation recognizing May 2026 as Jewish American Heritage Month. We have our council sponsors. A community sponsor
should just be sponsor Lynn. >> I'm supposed to be added as a council. >> Yeah, you and councelor Rooney. I'm so sorry. QRS. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. First page. Let me know if
you've got any changes. I will note the council sponsors informed me that this was the same proclamation as last year except for some statistics changed towards the end as a year has gone by. Let me know when you are ready to go on
by waving a hand about in some way. Okay, I'm seeing hand waves. Okay, great. Thank you. Page two. Is this where the statistics were changed? >> Yes,
I think. >> Yeah, that would be right. It it sounds the the phrasing sounds weird to me, but I don't think it's technically incorrect. It just sounds strange to me, >> right? >> So, I won't change it.
>> And they state where it's from, so that's good. >> Yep. Um, the only edit I have here is we typically just say of 2026. Um, and the this will be voted in May. Oh, stop. Don't yell at me.
But we're not doing an event or at least it's not stated here. >> Yeah. To my knowledge that I don't know any I guess you you would know better than me. >> We have in the past but there's been hesitation in >> Okay.
>> Okay. Um All right. Seeing no hands to make changes, is there a motion to find the town of Ammerst proclamation recognizing May 2026 as Jewish American Heritage Month clear, consistent, and actionable?
>> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Any further discussion? >> Okay, I'm going to call the vote. Councelor Ryan. I >> uh Lynn >> I >> councelor K Martin
>> I >> councelor Lloyd excuse me >> I >> and I am an I as well so we got 5 0 and I'm not going to forget that we voted on it okay next up is oh gosh okay county of amorest
proclamation declaring May 2026 as help me amotropic lateral sclerosis. Am yep you ALS uh awareness month amotrophic amotrophic. There we
go. Um council sponsor is councelor Hanaki. Community sponsors Christina Johnson. It's a quick one. Um I think I added a period somewhere so
just for her. So great. Raise your hand if you have any proposed changes. Being no hands raised, is there I have to read the the names are so hard. Um, is there a motion to find the town of Ammerst proclamation
declaring May 2026 as amotrophic lateral sclerosis awareness month clear, consistent, and actionable? So moved. >> Is there a second? Second. >> You guys are holding it down with the
motions and seconds today. >> Um, all right. I'm going to call Any further discussion? >> Okay. I'm going to call the vote. Councelor Kamin, >> yes. >> Lynn, >> I. >> Councelor Lord,
>> I. >> Councelor Ryan, >> I. >> And I have an I as well. All right. Great. And one more. We've got um this looks more marked up than it is just because I added the header in here
and I Yeah. Um and just moved things, but I didn't have other edits, proposed edits. This is the town of I don't know why that's green. Town of proclamation recognizing June 2026 as migraine and headache awareness month. Council sponsor is councelor Bravik. Community
sponsors are listed here. Councelor Kenna Martin. Um, do you mind adding me as a council sponsor as well? >> No problem. All right. Um, sorry. Just to make life easier so we don't have to look at all my things.
Uh, small things that I did here. There was I just added a comma. Um, okay. Take it in and let me know. Oh, and then I had this was a gap. I didn't know why.
and this was placed in the packet a while ago. So hopefully everybody already had a chance to read it. any proposed changes? Okay. Or am I up here? Perfect. Okay. Is there a motion to find
the town of Ammeris proclamation recognizing June 2026 as migraine and headache awareness month clear, consistent, and actionable? >> So move, Brian. >> Whoa. Coming hot. New motion maker. >> I'm coming here. Yeah. >> Is Is there a second?
>> I'll second it. >> Okay. All right. Any further discussion? Okay. Calling the vote. Uh Lynn, >> I councelor Lord. I >> councelor Kenna Martin >> I >> councelor Ryan
>> I >> and I am an I as well 5 Z All righten um okay so I want we're going to that was it for um proclamations and such
um so was not anticipating having time now I don't know what to do with myself um okay really Quickly on the bylaw review committee vacancies. Uh we can we couldn't discuss how about we maybe spend some time on that. Um if if that
sounds good, we I do not have the charter review recommendations prepped and open for us to to discuss at this point. Um so are folks okay with maybe getting through the selection guidance for the bylaw review committee? Um and then we'll do minutes and then we'll
wrap up from there. Does that sound good? Okay. Um, give me a second to pull it up cuz it was a from a packet a couple meetings ago, I think. Uh, while I'm doing that, I want to
thank Athena for doing some promotion of these vacancies. Um, we don't have currently have any calfs for this board. Um, so I would encourage people to please reach out, please reach out to
your constituents, your neighbor, your friend, anybody else, even if they're not your constituent. Um, and in they have to live in Ammerst. Uh, and encourage them to submit a calf for the bot review committee. This is a particularly good one for folks who
might like sitting on this committee, right? um who enjoy those intricacies and and like going through and asking the why questions about our bylaws and what purpose they serve. Um so highly recommend promoting that so
that we can fill it and fulfill our obligation here. Now that I'm done yapping about that, here is our selection guidance that we've been working on. I was at the sustainability festival this weekend and I was trying to draw up
some interest there too, but um nobody seemed very excited. I'm sure there are people who are going to be so thrilled for this committee. It's not just me. We just need to find them. >> It's fascinating to me. I think that one of the things that we haven't done, I don't think that we've gotten our
elevator pitch down really well. Um, but I also think generally we talk about the charter with the absolute reverence that it deserves, but people aren't necessarily talking about our bylaws in the same way when our bylaws govern more of even more of our day-to-day uh
existence and operation. And so I think that um well, I would argue even more, but you see them more, I guess, is how I'll frame that. And so I think it's interesting and we struggled to get to fill for for charter, too. Um, so we
just need to find the nerds here. Okay. And thank you for doing that outreach. Um, so we got something that's pretty light right now. Uh, but this is our our draft. So let's take a second to review it and refresh where we're at. Remember
selection guidance. What selection guidance is used for is as we are interviewing candidates, um, the selection guidance is what we use to make the decision. We are looking to describe the ideal full committee once
it's once it's done, right? Um selection guidance guidance gives us almost a a rough rubric to look for uh as we look at applicants um you know so that we're not considering random facts about the person that we might know that
weren't uh you know might be helpful but weren't something that we were looking for. That was phrased weird, but yeah. Okay. Um, we say presented alphabetically and then it's not. >> Can you blow this up just a bit? >> Yes, sir.
>> Thank you. >> Hang on. >> Is Is there a reason why it says presented alphabetically? Yes. Um, in the past we've had discussion about items appearing in the beginning feeling like they were a
priority for the committee when interviewing versus items uh last and then we often could not decide as a committee which ones should be the priority aspect right that we were looking for. So by presenting them alphabetically, we
were essentially taking away any perception. We're seeking to take away any perception that some of these experiences were more important than others. >> Thank you. That helps. And how different is this from the general selection guidance that we start
with? >> There isn't really a general selection guidance that we start with. Um we I pulled this from the guidance we used from the charter review committee. we've kind of just looked back at what others have done. So this is not I I think I
actually have left in you know so the crossed out parts were in charter and committee members mentioned taking them out for this uh and I think the highlighted pieces were items that we were really discussing um and editing but this is very similar this is very
similar to charter and I can pull that up for you if you want um and I pulled that because it's the most similar committee um finance is slightly different specifically ally, you know, finance. You everyone's seen finance. We we looked at that when we were
interviewing, but you know, it talks more about municipal finance. Um I'm not familiar with planning, but uh yeah, they they usually they're all very similar, but the expertise is the targeted point towards the charge of the committee.
>> Yeah, I just for some reason I had a memory of that. We had like a template one of selection guidance that then you could like tinker with, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that didn't exist. The template was the charter that I pulled. I think was the Yeah, >> there was like a template for interview questions, too. Maybe that's what I was thinking of.
>> Same thing. It's the same thing. I pulled them from charter and just gave you kind of a a broad one. >> Okay. >> I mean, it looks good to me. I don't I just I don't think we should be too specific because then it's going to be harder to find people. >> Yeah, I agree. Um
I think that what we took out was like a lot around Yeah, I mean I I agree. I think that this is broad and and I think that if we have a committee that has, you know, if we've got a committee that has all four of these things through different people, we're in good we're in good good
shape. >> Yeah. >> Councelor Ryan, Councelor Lauren, Lynn, any thoughts on this? I mean it touches on service, community engagement, prior experience and community outreach
and training or expertise seemed like four. >> Yeah. >> So, um let's see what questions we had in the past. Oh, haha. This was where we were stuck. So, we had talked about adding in language about an
equity lens and a climate lens. And again, this was a month ago. So, um that was going to be our item five or whatever item once it becomes alphabetical. We wanted to include language about the the body utilizing an equity lens or a
climate lens because we put those in the charge um specifically. So it I guess does the committee still feel that that is something that we can put in the select that we should put in the selection guidance or is it that
regardless of experience you are expected to do these things which I guess is is true anyway let me reframe you don't need specific expertise in applying climate or equity lenses
and it is still an expectation Yeah, I think what we have describes an overall approach that we're asking this body to take, but it would seem odd to add as a um selection guidance language
that would say what um >> experience or commitment to or engagement in climate or equity activities. >> Um, >> yeah, I think that would be good to add because I hope that would like catch the
eye of people who have that. Even if like we're not demanding that of every candidate, I do think that that would be helpful to say. practice. That's not That's too many vague words. Um, when making decisions and analyzing
things because it's not just it's not just when making decisions, right? like we want them to have those lenses when they're looking at the the bylaws as a whole. >> Um so it's analyzing information I guess.
>> Okay, >> this is in pencil. Please give me thoughts on this. Is this capturing it? Do we think? Is this enough? >> If we're looking at a candidate, >> you're going to move it. Sorry. >> And they
present with some background that has nothing to do with items one through four, but they show some experience in this general area of applying the lens. >> Mhm.
that might make them an attractive candidate if it's >> I would argue yes >> it's not here at all and I think Amber's other point is this might also might um draw interest beyond the usual circle
>> so I agree um >> that's >> and frankly I think that it it it could be an asset to have someone who has a lot has experience utilizing an equity lens or climate lens who may not be as familiar with uh you know who may not be
I'll use Bernie Kubak as an example like and this is not speaking at all to his his equity lens or climate lens but Bernie Kubak knows local government inside out backwards and sometimes it helps to have someone who doesn't paired with those people so that they can ask those questions of like wait you know
what um or this is how this kind of functions in in reality when you're not uh directly inside the the the writing of it all. Um, so I agree that having it in here is important. I just Is this wording adequate? Because
>> I I was going to say maybe um instead of information um >> things that was where I was at >> not analyzing things. No. >> Um I'm just thinking is it limited to policy? But yeah, I mean I think we're
asking them to look at policy. So >> So do you want to say policy here? policy decision >> or public policy. Yeah. Or public policy decisions. Um >> experience with utilizing an equity lens or climate lens when making public policy decisions and or
>> when making or analyzing public polic or analyzing >> making decisions on or analyzing is good. >> Public policy. Should it just be like what if it's, you know, a student who has experience doing
this for the charter and bylaws of their club or organization but doesn't have it in public policy? Um, is that a similar experience that would be helpful? Like does it have to be public policy?
>> That's a good question. I mean, I guess like if you look at if you think about organizational dynamics and the equity lens that can be very similar. Yeah, I would argue just policy would be adequate. >> Yeah, policy. >> Okay. >> I mean, I liked information. I like
things. So, I uh you've already pushed me way past my initial thoughts. >> That is one of the least meaningful words in the English language. >> And yet, it means everything. >> That's That's why it's meaningless, right? >> Uhhuh. All right. Um, how are we feeling now?
>> We're feeling great. >> Love that. I think that's it. I just double check to make sure there wasn't anything at the bottom. Are we ready to adopt? We can Yeah, we can adopt the selection guidance even before we found the pool sufficient. So,
>> um is there a motion to adopt the bylaw review committee selection guidance as presented? I so move. >> Okay. Give me a minute to write it in my my report that I did not plan to write.
So, I'm going to take this out. Uh to approve the selection guidance or the fil presented. Ryan made the motion. Is there a sec? I
will second it. Why not? All right. Um, any further discussion? Okay. Um, calling the vote. I am an I. Councelor Lord. >> Nay. >> Did you say nay or I? >> I. >> Okay. Sorry. Um, I thought you said nay and I was like, we can go back to it.
Uh, councelor can Martin. >> I. >> Lynn. >> I. >> Councelor Ryan. >> Hi. >> All right. Hey, guess what? We are getting there. Okay. Um, let's talk just briefly. We've got 10
minutes leftish. So, um, instead of going right to interview questions because I don't think we will get that done. Let's just we'll approve the minutes. Uh, and then we'll talk about coming attractions. Um, again, please please promote uh the vacancies on the
bylaw review committee and send out that calf to folks as uh as you see fit. Is there a motion to approve the minutes of April 14th, 2026? >> I so move. >> All right. Is there Who who second? >> Second, Lynn.
>> Thank you. Oh, no. Um, and calling the vote. Councelor Hannah Martin. >> I. >> I'm an I. Councelor Lord. >> I. >> Councelor Ryan. >> Hi. >> Lynn Dudier. >> Hi.
>> Okay, great. Um, thank you very much. So, we are um coming up. We've got charter review to tackle. We've got resident oversight board to tackle. Those are two big things. Um, I
did send an email out to all committee chairs asking if there were any changes to their charges that they would like to request. Um I've heard back from at least one that there were not uh not any changes and then another whose changes were covered in the um charter review
discussion. Uh I think I actually no I've heard back from from two. So we do not have any actionable changes to charges at this time. Um we will begin at our next meeting. I know it's wild, but we will begin uh
discussion or at least review of the town manager evaluation process. Um, so what I will be putting in the packet is the form from last year. Um, and I will be just kind of opening up general discussion if there are specific changes that folks believe we'd like to make.
I'm going to preview what this year's focus will be, which is specifically the elements that go to members of the public, committee chairs, and town staff. We focused a lot our our our focus last year was on the evaluation completed by counselors with the understanding that this year we would
discuss what the process is for the other folks that we seek input from and how that input is utilized or not utilized. Um and and yeah, I won't get into the discussion there because it's not on this agenda. So um think about that. I
will put the the um I guess Athena and I will try to model this one um to get blank versions of those forms put into the packet um for for the next meeting. Athena, if you're able to help me out with finding those. I think I have them, but I want
to make sure I have blank ones. Um we will continue the resident oversight board and we will hopefully tackle maybe one of the charter charter review recommendations. Um, water and sewer rates will come to us at some point. Pride month proclamation and race amity
day and junth will also come to us in May. Um, assuming those move forward. I will say I'm one of the sponsors for the pride month proclamation. So that will be coming to us. Um, and then other items we've talked about, a topic came
up for possible discussion at G, which is how G wants to handle possible citations for town staff. Um so I will give an example just as Athena just jump in if I'm doing too much that we didn't talk about but what the agenda item will
be is um talking through whether we want to establish kind of a practice around utilizing citations to celebrate the work of town staff when something exemplary happens. Um, one of the examples we talked about in the past was
um, Angela Mills and Sam Gif Griffin Gifin uh, created the Civic Academy. Um, that was an Thank you. created the civic academy which was an incredible amount of work. Um, and it was a really phenomenal program and is there a way
for this council to recognize that that work more formally? um while also knowing that we are sure to miss some of the incred like we would be issuing citations every day. So how do we how do we kind of still celebrate that and
through a possible formal mechanism. So that'll be a discussion um that I'd like to have in May. And then also in May, we've got a change um that's going to come through from I think councelor Rooney and I might be working with her on that on the uh council policy on
making appointments to multiple member bodies. There's a lot um in those especially the charter review. We know that there's a lot stemming from that. So um we will surely have full plates. I do want to say that I will not be here for the
meeting on May 26th. Um and that uh vice chair Kenna Martin has agreed to run that meeting. Um and then there's another meeting in July that I will not uh be here for on the is it the
14th I think that I will not be here. So um please you know I'm sure that you will probably be more efficient without me but um I just wanted to give the committee a heads up. >> Summer absences can really impact small committees. So, if you have days that
you know you will not be here and that we have a meeting, please let me know as soon as possible so that I can ensure we have a quorum. What I don't want to do is have two people sitting here and then not be able to call the meeting. So, um, as much as you can inform me Whoa, sorry. As much as you can inform me in advance on any planned absences, that's
helpful. Lynn, >> I just want to mention that I Yes. Uh, both um proclamations for Junth and Race Amity Day are in process. Great. Perfect. Thank you. Um, okay. With that,
it is 8:23. I think we went through what we were going to get through today. And I do not have any other unanticipated items. Is there a motion to adjourn this meeting? >> So moved. >> Thank you. Um, is there a second?
>> Second. >> All right. Um, >> give it to me first. >> I'm not gonna tell you who I'm giving it to. You'll have to read the report to find out >> the report. Okay. >> Um, >> I'm going to give it to myself. No, I'm just kidding. Okay, let's take the vote.
Uh, councelor Ryan >> I. >> Councelor K Martin >> I. >> Councelor Lord >> I. >> Coun uh Lynn >> I. >> And I am an I as well. All right. Thank you all so so much. It is 8:23 p.m. I hope you have a wonderful evening. I
will see you at our next meeting. >> Thanks. Go well. >> Bye.