j [Music] all right uh I'll start by taking the roll call uh so uh Elizabeth I'm here i have to leave at uh 4:00 okay we'll try to be efficient uh Steve I am
here uh and Nicole here bruce I'm here here and I'm here okay uh welcome to this hearing via Zoom of the local historic district commission our purpose is to aid property owners in the town in
preserving and protecting the distinctive characteristics and architecture of buildings and places significant in the history of Ammeris um members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone uh we require one of three certificates to ensure that new
construction and most alterations of exterior architectural features in the district meet the requirements and for today's hearing uh we are going to review two different applications one on Sunset and one on Lincoln um as the first part of the uh meeting we've got
three hearings we've got a third one as well mhm okay uh this hearing is open to the public and is being recorded so we can begin with uh Walker summarizing the first application
yeah so we're going to start with 21 Sunset this is a continuation of an application from the last meeting um for the removal of a couple of chimneys and the replacement of some roof with metal roofing so that he can install solar on
the roof um and we did go over this project some in the last meeting but um the hearing was closed before you could make a decision so I think the chimneys are still left to be discussed and they're the primary focus of the deliberations today um and then the the
metal roof is the other thing to be considered today so uh Mr roof is here to talk about his project um so if you would like to go over your project at all or add anything you're welcome to do could you just let us know the reasons
that you're taking down the chimneys yes yes good afternoon everybody the project overall is to fix up the roofing and at the same time add solar PV to the house um to make it more
sustainable reduce its carbon emissions the chimneys in particular they have not been used the front one hasn't been used for 15 years since I converted to a natural gas boiler that vents out the back side of the house the rear chimney hasn't been used for at least 20 years the time I've owned the house um both of
those are in danger of toppling over they exit just through the ridge line they do not appear on the side of the house anywhere so they just extend through the roof at the ridge line and the main reason for getting rid of them is they're a maintenance headache and they would reduce the amount of PV that
I could put on the roof since they extend down on the south side of the slope are there questions and comments from our commissioners steve I have a question um do the guidelines Oh I'm sorry steve is muted uh I believe
he was trying to make a comment okay go ahead muting myself uh first off one of the chimneys is not visible at least my uh when I rode by from the public way um so I don't think that's under I don't
think that we have to consider that and I um I I don't have any problem with I don't know about the metal roof but certainly I was not at the meeting last time but uh I was going to with my own house in the neighborhood i was going to
try to have artificial slate or slate i'm I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you haven't already heard and the cost was just you know $50 to $60,000 so that is a hardship so I don't have any problem with um part of the part of the roof there is already uh
asphalt so to me that's the only thing that's left is the one chimney that's visible um anyway that's my two cents all right um I agree with Steve uh but I hadn't
made the determination that one of the chimneys was hidden but even if it isn't I think uh it's consistent to allow people to remove chimneys essentially this is a an old technology um uh the uh the historic record is substantially
preserved because you're taking the chimney down to the roof line but it still exists in the house and it can be fairly simply reinstated if that was ever intended um but you know it is a pain to maintain chimneys they're very difficult to get to and quite expensive
and secondly it's not clear that chimneys that were used historically these days are safe to be used even if they were to be used so I wouldn't encourage necessarily uh that uh that we preserve that technology in historic houses um there will be cases of course
where the chimney is really a dominant feature i I would think for example that I might have a different opinion in a one of those really old houses where the huge chimneys with multiflues came through the middle of the rear roof and they are a historic feature this these
are two i mean it's a it's a one of those houses where the chimneys were brought in but uh I don't have a problem with the removal of them for the reason stated and and I think I said last time that I was comfortable with a metal roof because I think it's important if you're
putting solar PVs in to put a roof on that is uh that can uh match the the lifespan of the PVs and uh um so asphalt is not a good solution i think metal is a very good solution so I I support that
all in the uh in in in the interest of the uh of the historic narrative moving forward that I think this will be the story of the 21st century or the early part thereof and I don't think we should uh uh be uh shy about recognizing that
and that the uh the story of this house will continue and this will be part of its story uh for this era betty you had a question um yeah it was a very general question which is um in the regulations for local historic districts is anything ever said about
chimneys i can do you know sorry repeat the question I was taking notes oh I was asking um if in the regulations for local historic districts if anything was ever said about chimneys
i don't think they're called out specifically in the regulations they're not exempt from review but I don't think there was anything specific about them either um that I can remember okay Freda i remember the house right across Mr
roof's h from Mr roof's house the Emers College president's house i believe they came to us about their chimneys um and we allowed them to take one of their two chimneys down are there any other concerns about
the removing the chimneys or replacing the roof do I have a motion then to uh accept these changes [Music]
um I will move so moved that we grant a certificate of appropriateness to the uh applicant at 21 Sunsense Avenue for the removal of two chimneys and for uh roof repairs as proposed do I have a second
second i'll second i'm sorry thanks okay we'll take a vote um Bruce hi nicole yes steve yes betty yes
yes and I also approve uh so you've been granted your certificates of appropriateness and uh thank you very much for coming thank you very much and you'll get that through the portal in a couple days probably and then you'll be able to proceed great thank you very
much walker do you want to present the next project yeah let me take a look at the agenda and see what I had next it's the uh 363 main street so this is if any of you
know was Bruno's Pizza and they are looking at converting it to residential or the possibility of cons converting it to residential which would involve removing obviously the signs and anything related to the commercial use and also altering the position of some
of the doors and windows um adding some doors I believe and adding new lighting to make it suitable for residential use and I believe that the applicant is here she would like Willow would you like to present any information about the project yeah hi
good afternoon uh can you hear me just Oh yes yeah so we are looking to convert 363 Main Street from commercial to residential so that would involve uh removing the outdoor signage for Bruno's
Pizza and the front door will actually be replaced by a window um there'll be a the front door will be from the side of the building and that we have chosen a what is
it it's a fee river doors um 36 inch by 80 inch six light clear craftsman unfinished smooth left hand in swing fiberglass prehung front
door and lighting to be replaced by a sea light LED goose neck light with 14inch angled shroud and the windows to be Anderson
400 series woodright double hung window uh Walker can you display some pictures for everyone so they can see what we're talking about here yeah give me a minute I'm trying to get some stuff loaded um I guess my internet's slow here at home but or or I think you can give Rua the
uh ability to present yeah so I can share I've got the site plan and drawings here i don't know if I have the the proposed like materials do you have the ability to share your screen Ria and show us some of this let me see
if I could do that see if this you guys would be able to see this or not would I do that here uh let's see uh no I think you you need to be able to um we had this in a packet
yeah I think it's in the it's on the uh town main website um it's in the packet well the packet has the the site plan yeah it it has images as well okay does it i didn't see any oh
it has some images the existing building it has Yes images associated with the plan set but not the not not the building as it stands not the plan yeah they're all interior which are really irrelevant to us I think yeah you
guys i don't know if that's No that's not the real That's not going to help us we appreciate your diligent efforts we need to share the screen in a in a in a in a in an electronic way let me see if I might if I have them on the
They're in the packet if I could email you something over right now see what we still got steve here is that uh intentional oh I guess I'll just joined us from
France so Oh yes hello after It just emailed over it over to you Walker i don't know if that Yeah I'll open it in my email and then I should be able to It's taking a second to load oh
I think it came through and that would have the proposed is on the bottom with interior would look all three sides it's the first one in the packet from for this session
i mean I can bring it up if you if I can share the screen i don't know what Yeah if you share the screen several of us have access to it yeah okay some background noise somewhere so this I believe is the existing north
elevation and this is exist existing west elevation yes and this is the site plan this is mostly interior um yes i think the only drawings that
we're interested in are the the ex elevation there's two sheets the elevations existing and the elevations new i want to point out that uh that in this drawing we're currently looking at we have a sign with the lights over the
uh uh over the top of it it's a sign which probably says Bruno's or has some um and at some point I would ask uh I I I have not in this town but in maybe but in other parts of the world I've um
friends who bought houses in this situation are being asked to preserve the sign uh as part of the historic uh provenence and so forth this may not be a case where we really want to do that but I thought we might uh ask the
question and this stride shows the uh the sign panel um as an ex this is the existing condition uh I'm not sure that this the Bruno's sign really enhances this in any way uh no I don't know that having Bruno's
written on it i I might uh suggest the the sign panel itself painted out or painted into an accent color be uh be preserved as a as a as a relic of its uh commercial uh um days
did it begin as a house though and get converted to a store and then back to a house very possibly i don't know i could just ask uh was that ever considered uh um uh
um Brer Ruler did you consider retaining the the sign panel the element and just painting it in an accent color for that reason no uh no I didn't even think it would be allowed so just like painting over the sign yes
we're keeping it is because it's part of the elevation there and uh and I don't know the detailing of it it may be just stuck on the building in an awkward and not very nice way but if it's if it's part of the integrated part of the siding well then I I would ask why you
wouldn't just keep it instead of te taking it off and and trying to stitch in new siding there it would be presumably a less expensive way of doing it and often people don't think of doing that yeah and I uh I know my my niece and nephew in a house that they have in
a historic district have uh it was a different circumstance it was more more militantly a Victorian commercial strip and they were asked to maintain the uh not just the s the the signed panel but
also the the lettering on it because it was considered and they were happy to do that in fact they were planning to do it anyway so I just thought I'd ask it's I wouldn't necessarily think that it should be conditioned but it might be a fun thing to do and it might be something that appeal to you oh there
you go you can see that it's Yeah actually uh so you could uh conceivably just paint it out there you go there it is or it looks like actually Well I don't know maybe maybe the what's maybe what's in the black or red boundary is
something that's applied and that the panel is behind that but um I don't know i thought it might be fun just to keep a an indication that there was a a commercial sign there once and it was once upon a time that was Bruno's and now it's not
Bruno's anymore but that's that's a that's a vestage of its previous life so you're suggesting just painting over the Bruno not not having the letter showing just painting painting it over yes i I don't know exactly what I'm looking at there so if that was a if that was a plastic piece that was an
eighth of an inch thick that was glued over it and so forth you might want to take that off but I I I'm as I say I'm not proposing that we condition on this business i think I'd simply ask the homeowner whether they have any interest in doing that and that that that excites
them in any way because I personally like to be able to see evidence of past uses in buildings it's why I don't I often don't um take out windows and reinstate the siding i put a panel in in the window opening and uh so you you can
see there was a window there even though there isn't anymore mhm it's it's just a way of um it's a design approach I guess well I have a different question how far back is this side panel that you can see in
this picture um is that going to be is that noticeable from the street or that yeah it's noticeable from the street yes you can see in the side elevation how far back it is this side panel with that single door
right there i think I mean I think it's pretty visible it's right there is this what we're talking about yes i see i mean I think you have to be driving right in front of it to see
it yeah i guess you wouldn't be able to see it from the front unless you're driving by to me it's visible because I'm so familiar with the building but maybe someone driving by maybe it's not so visible sorry what are we talking about uh so
this is going to be Oh the whole of the electrical uh with all Yes all this stuff really are you I mean that's this was a this was a commercial use so it's possibly got a pretty heavy it's probably serviced for
provided for a pretty heavy electrical load to you and there's multi-meters there and everything is are your electrical loads going to be do do you need to have a new service or revised service put in there or are you just working with the existing electrical
service that I'm not sure of yet yeah well again it's probably u um I'm not sure that I would want to condition an an appropriate a
certificate of appropriateness on them having a a nicer looking electrical service but but others may disagree i think it would be a very expensive requirement if we were to move in that direction uh Betty you're uh muted betty
I was hoping to see the plans for the front um the new plans i see that that was the picture of the existing but what's is this the new right here no I think it's that's existing that's existing is there new the one that you'd proposed with the new window and doors
etc there should be um I emailed it over to Walker walker did you get the email I got it's it's it's in this drawing set it's six drawings down it's six drawings down so you also have it if you want to switch to Yeah it's the same drawings
the same plan set so should be able to scroll down yes uh the very top one 360 uh who's Walker are you the one that's operating no no I am i I can stop my share and
someone else can take over okay well um that first uh set of drawings has got that first uh that first file has about 10 drawings in it so you just scroll down and and we were looking at the drawing number somewhere about four I
think it was and after you've uh basically the the drawing set shows a site plan and and uh and cover sheet and then there are two drawings showing the existing uh plans top and bottom and maybe some new and then you get to the
elevations i've got the just the main plan no nothing someone had the drawing set open a while ago it was open in a strange format but uh that there we go now you've got the
the drawing sets on the slide on the right hand side sorry on the left hand side so it's easy to scroll between uh drawing sets so this Yeah this is the new front facade there's the door window and
light that's being proposed oh so you are proposing to keep the uh the uh sign ban that's what it like left it there yep and you're going to keep all those electrical things just right next to the
front door actually there's going to be a there's a different door added there to the um to the other side where is it that's the back no further up I think
right there that door the right is a new door yeah so that's going to be the primary entrance yes so is there a door on the on the front where there no there's just it's going to be replaced by a window right there
okay this one here uhhuh they get replaced no the that window to the Yeah the door see but it's there but this one will remain yes okay were there any photos of the house
before it was turned into Bruno's yes no uh not that I found so this is a multif family i guess there's already two threebedroom apartments upstairs okay and how many are going in downstairs uh twobedroom and a
fourbedroom okay so a total of four apartments yes okay so you perhaps sprinkles all the things that we don't care about but uh yes it will happen um I don't uh the the the siding is
staying the same yes the roof material is staying the same mhm the all of the trim and so forth it doesn't show it on this drawing that there is trim but I imagine that there are corner boards for example and uh things like that yes yeah
so that's all basically the only changes to the outside are where you change windows and doors as uh from um which most mostly happens on this well it happens yes I I think I I've
gone through it seems to me that this is [Music] um not terribly consequential architectural changes i mean it's a consequential use change because it's changing it from a commercial to a residential use there
probably I'm I'm sure the assessor is not wildly enthusiastic about these kind of transitions but that's not our business um uh it seems to me that it's a um a fairly modest change uh to the building
itself and the building itself is not a uh shall we say an iconic presence in the neighborhood um at least from an architectural point of view so I think I'm I think my questions are answered
are there any other questions or concerns about this house uh do I have a a motion then to grant a certificate of appropriateness well I'll move to grant a certificate of
appropriateness to the uh Thank you project on what's this address uh something something Main Street 363 363 Main Street uh uh finding that it's you know with it's it's fitting within the
that those section of our B of our bylaws and that it's uh uh based on the drawings presented uh that we should grant a certificate of appropriateness do I have the second seconded
thank you uh are we ready to take a vote then uh okay uh Karen I approve steve yes nicole yes ste uh
Bruce yes freda I approve betty yes and I approve uh so we are granting you a certificate of appropriateness and thank you for coming to our meeting and explaining the plans okay thank um I do have one question if we paint over the sign
um what colors are we allowed to paint we we have no uh ability to decide the colors you have the full rights to change the color of the building if you want to yeah you you bear full responsibility okay thank you
so I'll be in touch with that certificate you'll be getting it through the portal thank you so much yep have a good day you too so that brings us to our third uh one this is the one at 295 Lincoln Avenue yes so they are proposing
building a second dwelling which would be an accessory dwelling unit um the which under the new state law is allowed by right as long as it's less than 50% of the gross square foot of the
primary building um and so you can't really regulate it through zoning but you can still regulate it through non-zoning such as his local historic district bylaws in the same way that you would any other house in the district um so this we can you can still provide the
same guidelines that you would to a regular single family home in the district and um I believe that the applicant is here would you like to present the project absolutely thank you Walker good afternoon my name is Alan
Silier i'm the property owner of 295 Lincoln A and a local business owner i've been working in the Amoris community for 19 years i would like to give thanks to uh Walker who was extremely helpful and went the extra mile to assist in scheduling and
preparing for this hearing today I would like to introduce the project show the immediate neighborhood setting which is located on the southeast corner of Lincoln Avenue and Fearing Street and share three different architectural configurations for the proposed
structure and finally provide a background on how we came upon the submitted designs and I'm going to share screen here can you see the introductory slide there yes fantastic okay uh this slide is the
project description which was circulated in advance i will spare the details of that unless someone wants me to get into the specifics and move forward into the uh project and the neighborhood as well um I I just uh circulated in advance is
a is a I didn't see that was that Did I not That was part of the packet that went out okay maybe I didn't uh I had uh maybe I didn't look hard enough late enough okay so I haven't seen anything on this project i'm happy to read
through it just so that if any Oh I don't think that's necessary i just wanted to see if everybody if if if I was not if I was not the only one who hasn't seen the packet uh then that would be different but uh um I think this is fine so keep going uh
Alan sorry so investing in the community by making property improvements is an important part of our mission of providing quality housing in the area over the last three years we've made significant investments in the property at 295 Lincoln A adding
solar panels new landscape plantings and painting the property uh these before photos are from 2022 and the after photos here were taken last fall fall of 2024 um I know color is not under your purview but we
think that this color is a lot more pleasant than the previous one was i agree um at this point I would like to introduce the project which is a detached accessory dwelling and as Walker did some introduction uh Governor Healey passed a bill that changed
statewide zoning that went into effect earlier this February to allow these protected use ADUs by right uh the following slides are to show the immediate neighborhood setting 100 Fearing is our immediate abuter to the east uh and they just uh so happened to
have an ADU attached to their house the setback is pretty much right down to the minimum from our property line of 10 ft um and the slide here is to show that property from a different angle as well
as the next of butter at 98 fearing with the intention of kind of demonstrating the roof lines are very similar to the subject property at 295 around the 612 ranch home style roof line uh this is a view from the intersection
showing 295 Lincoln 100 fearing and in the background 285 Lincoln A this is the proposed uh plot plan showing the positioning of the ADU on the lot with the existing dwelling uh
nothing about the existing dwelling is changing nothing about the existing parking is changing our trash location is screened and not changing uh the intention of positioning it in this corner of the property was to make it uh
blend in a bit more and not be so prominent and so it is um we've you'll see in our proposed designs but we've proposed a low roof line to reduce its prominence and a much larger setback from the public way for the same reason
uh at this point I'd like to show you some of the design details proposed and again we've we've put together three different configurations uh the first one was meant to emulate the existing structure which I can jump back up in
the slides here to kind of show you uh the row low roof lines uh simple windows no shutters no divided lights no difference in texture um and this was designed to be uh similar and I understand that the commission one of
the commission's interests is to ensure that the architecture matches the parent building which unfortunately in this case there's not a lot going on with the architecture or the history of the property it was constructed in the early 1980s uh so another thing that we did
was to lay out the elevations and show certain architectural features like the wall lights the mini split compressors the location of the electric meter proposed uh and things of that nature the dryer vent anything plumbing vent anything that will be showing uh visible
to the public way the um second design which will have all of those same components but have different architectural features was um an attempt at emulating the roof line and basic
scale and proportions of the existing dwelling but drawing in some architectural features from homes in the district uh the design is smaller simpler and less prominent uh yet showing difference to the architecture of the area that was
important to me i spent a few hours walking the district researching and photographing many of the homes along Lincoln Fearing Mlullen Paige and Beston Streets uh taking over 173 photos of homes and accessory structures i believe that the proposed design captures the
essence of many of these homes so the the biggest difference between this second option is the horizontal lap siding shutters two over one uh window lights and of course we have a smaller
window in the archite the attic gable end which you'll see in many of the homes we researched some of the notes uh for these renderings the colors are limited by our design software so the final coloring and texture will be as per the material
uh literature that we submitted the railings on the stairs we're hoping to uh not have those and have it be a cleaner look uh but that will be determined by the building code and whether we can stay under the maximum number of stair risers uh that would not
require railings so that'll kind of come down to some of the final grading uh the bushes shown in the renderings are for illustration uh we are showing those on the sheet A7 here with the screen plantings in the plan view and the
electric meter location proposed that is going to to some degree come down to the determination by the utility company as to whether they're going to run power to the primary dwelling and then we run it underground to the secondary dwelling or whether they run it directly overhead to
the secondary dwelling um so we are requesting that both configurations be uh approved when the final determination is made as well as uh both configurations with and without railings on the stair landings
the third configuration is very similar to the second configuration only we put a higher gable roof pitch uh because when we present the um the inspiring homes you'll see that many of those have
a higher roof pitch so we wanted to give consideration to the primary dwelling but if that's not considered the most prominent uh consideration in the district we also wanted to show some consideration to other homes in the district so having said that uh this is
a plan view that would apply to either of the configurations showing the window and door details window and door locations screen plantings we have one in front of the electric meter location we added another on the opposite corner for symmetry we have one screening the
air conditioning compressor from the Lincoln A view you can see I show Lincoln A here on the bottom just to orient how this floor plan ties to Lincoln A and then up on the top of the page another uh planting to screen the
air conditioning compressor from public view on Fearing Street those plantings are uh emerald green aravati which will be 3 to four feet height at planting and um they have a mature height of 10 to 15 feet but we're going to keep them
trimmed to about 6 to 8 feet tall and they grow at a rate of 1 to two feet per year this uh graphic is intended to show the location in real view real world view uh of the location of the structure this is
from a direct perpendicular view from Lincoln A this is uh kind of a view from the northwest showing that location as well as the walkway from the parking area uh we have a sample of the PA stone
walkway in the right hand side of the screen here this view is from the public way on the sidewalk of Lincolnav uh to show the screening that's already in place uh from the southerntherly abut from the perspective of the southerntherly abuter
the uh secondary structure is going to largely disappear from that perspective this shows from the parking area and that yellow structure is our southerntherly of butter 285 Lincoln A this shows the trash location in the
primary residence screened and underneath the stair landing at this point uh these slides are going to present structures in the neighborhood where we derived some of our design elements and tried to emulate some of those features of course 98 fearing which is
three doors down we've got the lap siding on the first floor shingle siding on the second floor small attic gable end windows uh symmetry and the gable end facing the street uh similar with 285 Lincoln which is diagonally across
uh 11 Page which is just around the corner again we've got symmetrical features with the gable end facing the road more examples of that can be found at 24 Mlen Street you'll note that this has a secondary dwelling there's actually three dwellings on this
property in the back visible from the public way similar uh symmetrical gable ends 37 Cosby this is actually an ADU in the backyard if there's 37 Cosby as view from Paige and uh 16
Mlen so those are to show the use of symmetrical gable ends shutters two over one windows uh this slide is some examples of houses in the district that show differing texture uh between first and second floor and second and third floor we've
got shingles or shakes in the attic gable in walls and lap siding horizontal siding on the lower levels and those are at 38 fearing 21 sunset and 54 mlen 143 Lincoln and 15 Allen are good
examples of cornerboard shutters and once again um differing texture on the gable end wall symmetrical facades uh at this point I'd like to present some of the existing accessory structures and dwelling units in the
district already some that already exist uh and the data that I present is from the tax assessors uh records of course the most prominent is 1557 Lincoln which is two dwellings on the same lot the primary dwelling being
2600 square feet and secondary 1900 you can see in the inset here the tax assessor's map those two dwellings there in close proximity both visible from the public view over on 1517 Cosby very similar two
dwellings on the same lot the front dwelling is 1370 ft twotory the rear dwelling is 1360 ft singlestory and the upper inset there shows the street view 24 Mlen again uh to illustrate the three
dwellings on the same lot the secondary dwelling is uh primary dwelling is 899 square foot secondary dwelling 542 square foot and the tertiary dwelling is just under 300 square
ft uh 37 Cosby A showing two dwellings on the same lot around 1,500 square ft for the primary 736 for the secondary this is the view of the ADU from Paige Street since Mlen or uh Cosby is on the
corner of Cosby and Paige uh over at 44 Mlen there's a pretty significant 860 foot detached barn it's listed as a potting shed on the assessor's records it's got a car charger and electric
meter and then over at 15 Beston Street there's a 432 square f foot studio uh noted on the tax assessor's records to have heat and plumbing and of course no research of the district is complete without a
mention to the Robert Frost House um you'll note the corner boards the symmetrical gable end facing the public way and the differing siding textures between the lower and upper level i can jump back up now to the slides
that show our proposed architecture so those can be discussed um those are the homes that we derived inspiration from uh and again we've we've presented three different configurations here with the intent of capturing a design that's
complimentary to the immediate neighborhood and a broader sampling of the local district uh at this time I'd like to answer any questions from the board and welcome input as to which configuration may be the best fit for the neighborhood or the district we're
open to a or some combination is this a onestory dwelling it is yes the proposed structure is a singlestory uh there'll be vated ceilings uh on this one end about a third of the depth of the structure on the interior and the
principal dwelling is a two-story did you consider making it a smaller footprint with two stories uh we did consider that uh however again we wanted it to be less prominent and kind of melt into the background as
opposed to being tall and and skinny and uh you lose you lose some efficiency uh with with that configuration uh so we we propose this as the the more elegant of the two or the more the proposed configuration
uh Betty since it's uh this size and it's it's one story uh have you considered making it accessible you've got just one step or two up to the front door you could make it a totally accessible house
uh we did not consider that just being a single single unit uh we didn't have any requirements to make it accessible uh and with the required exposures for the foundation um that's what is triggering those two steps
chris um I I think this is I've been as Karen and I are both members of the planning board and we've spent uh quite a lot of time over the
past few couple of months at least u talking about ADUs and the the uh evolution of the uh of the regulatory structure that's been built around the act that uh uh the applicant mention and so forth and and we've been trying to
figure out what level of control we as a town through the zoning can put onto ADUs um that's a context in which I'm at least thinking about this but uh it seems to me from the level of research
that the applicant has done and uh and the thoughtfulness and so forth I mean it's it's not a um an elaborately creative uh uh design but the process by which you've thought
about how it should look and where it should go seems to me to be um a very good model of how we hope or how I hope that future um uh applications for ADUs uh in any part
of town would proceed so I I'm inclined to uh not get hung up with the problems that the town is having with trying to modify its existing bylaw and simply to look at this from their point of view as a
historic comm local historic district commission um I I think it's as I said uh you've thought about this well I guess if I had to express an opinion I'd probably choose the the uh the design option that has the broken uh uh uh
elevation at uh that one uh but it's not a strong preference i think the vertical siding would look fine as well i I I I never think that plastic shutters are are a constructive addition to a a building because they're really
non-functional and they usually don't have a a proportional relationship to the windows they're supposed to cover so I'm and and so it's it's not in my view money well spent um so I would never uh
be u almost never be uh an advocate for vinyl shutters as a decorative elements to be nailed up on either side of openings um uh but I think that uh one thing that I would ask or or be curious
about and and something that might add a little bit of interest and and also functional value to the uh uh uh to the design to the application would be to put a a shelter over one or both of the uh entrances um I can imagine somebody
standing here waiting to be let in and the rain would be dropping on uh to them it would be quite nice I think to either particularly with the six pitch roof the lower pitch roof you could simply extend the plane of the roof out over these
openings and put a couple of posts down uh you could even bring the steps up from from one side perhaps or or or put a small piece of guttering in rather than a long piece but I think that providing some uh shelter would be a a
nice functional thing that could be done and I think it would add a little bit of interest uh aesthetically um formally to the building and whether that's a gable end that's popped in and supported or whether it's a continuation of the the
plane of the existing roof either could work well that I would recommend that as a as an as an addition to this but otherwise I I recognize that it's a a simple very simple building
uh put next to an equivalently um or put in in the in in in an area where there are a number of equivalently simple buildings so I think it's consist consistent and it seems to me to be
appropriate and I guess I'll leave it at that for the moment steve is it my turn yes uh well I first I want to commend you for your presentation it it was very thorough and this is a unique case in which the ADU is actually
better than the primary uh structure i just have to tell you uh as a someone who was involved in creating the LHD in this neighborhood the present structure was our poster child for why we actually needed an
LHD um I don't know what the history of the structure was i've heard rumors that it was an old house that somebody wanted to put an apartment building and in spite for spite the owner when he couldn't get that passed put up the structure that's there which is I think
pretty crummy i think you've improved it and I commend you for that in fact I wish you would um consider redoing the principal structure as well as the ADU is so um if that's a possibility because to me that the uh the structure that's
there has always been a real eyesore for the um whole neighborhood you know I took the seminar on um you know ADUs and so there's really I know there's really nothing we can do about it and I actually think the building is fine my
chief concern is the parking and I don't know and that's an iffy issue for us can I ask how many people are you planning to house in this uh 900 square foot i I think I saw that it was a blueprint of two bedrooms
sure yeah so it would be two perhaps three uh and the um the requirement for parking is not there under the ADU bylaw because it's within a half mile of a bus stop and so what we didn't want to do was uh stuff
the lot with cars and have it look even more congested um you know so the the consideration and to have fewer cars on site was the real driving factor there yeah no I know and right now there's already a parking problem at that
property um you know I I live like a two blocks away you know I just you know I we it's to me this is a very short-sighted you know law by and also I we're actually struggling with parking structures in LHDs and whether what our
jurisdiction is over them so to me this is not going to be a settled issue today but it's a real problem um to build structures where there's no parking within miles i mean there's no parking allowed on on Lincoln at that
juncture and there's no parking allowed on fairing so um I don't know what our jurisdiction is and what you know I think that it was a if it was an unprotected you would have to put one more space on which wouldn't really make any difference but um I have I don't
have any problem with the placement of the building and I defer to Bruce's judgment in terms of which of the three are are is the best but I do have a real concern you know which I and I don't know what we as a body can do about it
about the um where the parking is but I guess the kids that will live there um will have to deal with that rita um so I've I strongly prefer the
model with the steeper roof i think the steeper picture of the roof fits into the neighborhood much better and um so that was my first and my second is a question the shutters what are they going to be made out of the proposed
shutters are they plastic they are a vi vinyl composite shutter yes with the focus on um lower maintenance and so that we don't have peeling paint and things of that nature rot pests i prefer wooden but I don't know um then
my third question is I'm glad you're going to block the um air conditioner air condition unit with shrubbery and also the electrical but in the um primary house that would be a really nice little addition because when you're
walking down Lincoln and you look at that house the electric box is so prominent so I wondered if you would consider putting one of the bushes in front of that too um and originally I lived here when they put up the original
house and I know the neighbors objected to um the parking being they they negotiated with the builders the town did to block the parking with uh shrubbery and for a while that was there
but then now it's long gone but that's another consideration is the to have the parking lot area you have I know noticed you put gravel down but having that area blocked from the public more the way it was originally proposed when they
allowed that house anyway those are just my thoughts but I definitely prefer the steeper pitched i think that's more characteristic of houses in the neighborhood i think it'll fit in better karen you Yeah i also commend you for
trying to improve this uh particular residence by having an ADU which perhaps fits in better than the primary house and I agree with Grea i prefer a steeper roof even though it doesn't match the house you know
anything you can build there that makes it a little bit more attractive um would be great and I I also I mean I was there I think we talked to you when you said that you had removed pretty much all the shrubbery because you just
because of maintenance reasons but if you could find some way to plant to do some plantings to make the Lincoln just to make the residential area much much more attractive that
would not entail a lot of maintenance i I realize it's it's hard to maintain all these things but we would be really grateful and I think it would add a lot to this particular area uh in in many ways maybe then it makes it hard for
people to park all over the place but there's got to be a way that you can somehow have some maintenance-free uh shrubbery and I I just wonder if you would consider that um yeah steeper roof and uh I like your colors and thank you
for the presentation thank you Walker yeah I just wanted to echo what Alan said that um a pro protected you say to you is not required to provide parking and that um as at least for right now
that you don't have any jurisdiction over parking in your rules and ranks so that's just something that can't be addressed by the commission well I wish you had chosen a smaller footprint and made it a two-story ADU i
think it is almost the same size as the current footprint and it looks quite large to me on that piece of land and I I find your design some parts of it uh are attractive but then the the front door
just looks plopped on there without any kind of character to it no kind if you every single picture that you showed us of other ADUs had some real character around their front doors some real
character around the roof lines um in ways that this house just doesn't uh so I'm I'm not as excited about this house as some of my fellow commissioners are i have to admit I see it as a very
uninspired design uh and not at all reminiscent of other houses in the area i see that you're showing us some other examples do you want to defend yourself i just wanted to add that because they
are smaller structures uh that is why they're not as ornate you know there's a mix in the neighborhood of larger grander homes and much smaller more functional homes i don't know if my screen is still shared um yes it is okay
great so the homes that we researched with the exception of a couple um you know 98 Theoring has a small little roof over it uh Lincoln AB does not paige has a little transparent roof over it uh these three do not and one of the things
that I wanted to comment to Bruce's uh suggestion of a covered entry uh when the time was right is that we are proposing 18-inch roof overhangs around the entire building with the intention of providing that shelter that's about half the width of that landing so uh
that was a consideration when we put the design together was to do those large overhangs to protect the stairs and quite honestly the entire structure from the weather karen um now that you mention it Nancy I agree
there's maybe you could we we strongly recommend that you look at making a more attractive entryway i think it it probably wouldn't cost that much more and it probably would add a great deal to this very small uh house to have
something that isn't just a door uh but an attractive door so I would ask if you could just look into it into into that i guess I agree with Nancy and Currin but I also don't even know if
it's just the door the doors you're showing right now look great but it's maybe the raw wood handle rails that also are you have on the main house that are made out of um they're not painted they're um I I
can't remember the term um pressuret treated pressure treated yeah so these doors without the pressuret treated look better to me than the door with the pressuret treated so somehow making the door fit the neighborhood more either by eliminating the pressuret
treated and maybe have a granite stair or something that is um echoes the other houses um anyway I think it to me is the pressuret treated wood that looks so raw um and it is what you have on the other
house too i don't know i guess you can't paint it um if I may just add to that um our preference is to not have those railings at all if it's not required by the building code because we were we realize that those are kind of prominent parts of the architecture um but the
submitted material samples suggest a white railing a white vinyl railing if they are in place it's just that the renderings that we provided the color of the railings and things of that nature are somewhat limited um so we we want to point out the fact that the submitted
material samples are what's going to be used and not necessarily exactly what's shown on the renderings as far as colors go okay so that makes me feel better i also suggest I also urge you when you have a choice to use real wood rather than plastic
because plastic doesn't age very well and and never really looks as good so yeah the the white railings that we proposed are actually a fiberglass composite so they have the architectural detail of wood but they're weather resistance of other products
that are they hold up well that sounds better and I do appreciate um the paint color it's a big improvement um of the old house thank you that one and I would like I'd love to see you um
somehow screen here's a picture of um your house the somehow maybe with I don't know how but but that's not what we're rolling on that's the old house that's just when I walk by yeah when we when we put the solar panels up um we
went to the um to the staff member at the time and they said that it was a certificate of non-applicability to add solar and to add the the solar you're right you're right on that so there there's a difference though
between a certificate of applicability and a desire to make a house attractive for the neighborhood and we all live in this neighborhood and I'd say your house is one of the least attractive houses on the neighborhood and so for you to try to do something to make it a little more
attractive would be appreciated and I particularly feel that way about this house that you're proposing because I think you have not although you've made given us some alternatives I still find this front door uh very unappealing front door with no character to it
whatsoever sure bruce um yes uh I'll just take my hand down um I think well I wanted to um point out that Allan's proposal this was uh back
about 15 minutes when uh we were perhaps saying how how how benile everything was i wanted to point out that something about uh the way Allan's proposing that is significantly different and and
beneficial is the is the uh proposal to project the gable end uh roof uh by what looked like judging by the shadow at least 12 in and that is a I think a
terrifically positive uh uh beneficial uh design uh initiative from a historic point of view it's um it's small enough in concept but the um the the the the
architectural travesties that have been perpetrated through the 70s and 80s and can kind of continue with the kind of simple builder special houses that get designed is they have almost no or no uh gable end overhangs
i mean and it's it really is awful it looks so plasticky so superficial and it's also um not at all uh good for the house itself because the the walls have no protection at all from the weather so putting the uh running the uh the gable
end out on the north side as he's proposing which you'll see is consistent with all of the examples that he's shown us is a small but telling uhly relevant and and positive thing that makes what would uh be what is a very small uh
little rectal linear box with a roof on it just a little bit better than it might be i guess I'm saying this what Allan is proposing could be worse and in my view a lot worse simply by not proposing to run that gable end out uh
on the gable uh the gable end overhang uh simply by providing or proposing a gable end overhang i could get into the constructional reasons the simplicities and the cheapness and so forth associated with why so many buildings in
the last part of the last century didn't have these um uh but Allen hasn't fallen into that trap and I think he should be commended for it and and that's one of the reasons why this simple building actually I think does deserve our our
support i I'm I don't actually agree with you Nancy i don't think a two-story building of this scale would be a better u massing in the neighborhood i may be wrong but I do think that we should
condition uh any certificate of appropriateness on the requirement to have uh sheltered uh uh porches over the uh sheltered sheltering rooms over the porches i definitely think that the uh
the the the those uh little ballast raids on either side of the porches are unnecessary i mean the building code requires that only if you have a 30 a 30 in drop to grade if you're less than 30 in you're um I'm just going to
uh say I can't take this call it's Linda Slaky um uh so I I I think we should condition the uh the the any approval on on the requirement of on on the requirement of adding fores and I think that we can
also uh either condition or imagine that there will not be any ballastrades because I can't imagine that on that site that you're going to have a 30 in uh difference that would be something
like what we're looking at here where you've got four steps up uh four rises so those are 7 in at least I mean at most maybe six so you've got five steps that would be um driving
uh the requirement of a ballastrade from a code point of view so I don't think it's going to be necessary but I do think um that we can expect or should expect that the architecture here could be augmented by uh sheltering rooms for the
porches ron uh thanks for that input Bruce uh and we can double check uh the building code my understanding was uh anything over two risers would require it but we'll confirm that and and we share your
preference that they're not there i just wanted to address the the scenario where they were required and we weren't prepared from a certificate of appropriateness uh scenario so well that's a that's a good thought I guess
Ellen and the uh and I agree with you that the uh cold treated fiberglass material is an excellent uh material for this purpose it looks like painted wood it has all of the durability that uh it's much more durable so if you
needed to do it fine I don't think you will so if you wanted to condition it such that those would only be there if required by building code uh I think that would probably achieve what everybody's looking for okay so Alan can
I ask you a different question um in these other pictures that you're showing us instead of having a level uh ballastrate it it goes up the stairs it It's uh
tilted why and that seems to me that would be more attractive than this uh just these two blocks of well Nancy that's because they've got four and five stairs and they they need them and it's relevant to but but he's going to have
at most one step maybe two if the porch is exactly at the level of the floor yeah i'm just saying that by the time he puts if he's going to put something up why not have it go run all the way down the stairs he's got two stairs there
well there's a reason but um I mean it's much easier to attach your ballastraight to the port structure if you want to run it down to the lower port of the stairs you have a whole new foundation situation you have to solve it's not impossible but uh it would look much
more attractive though i think um if if I could address that um as as Bruce mentioned that the intent is to have this landing which is required outside of an entry door uh be you know six seven inches below floor
level of the house and then from that landing it's it's one more step down to grade so if we had those angled railings there would be a post eight inches away from the top post on the landing so you would really only be seeing two posts
there wouldn't be any ballasters between them because it's such a small step uh on the houses that the examples that I showed uh you'll see uh more steps as Mr mentioned um you know the the 285
Lincoln there's one two three four four steps up uh 98 fearing there looks like there's five or six steps up so that's the primary difference is that just the one step the angled railing really kind of looks out of place um and the reason they're on the
landing would only be if they're required for height so I think that the consensus is that nobody really wants to see them and they'd only be there if if it was required by building code i just wanted to have I just wanted to be prepared for that so we weren't sent back to the dis the commission just to
discuss those ballasts so I I would have no opposition to a condition that they not be there unless they're required by the building code i unfortunately don't think we can get away from the building code requirement um you know because because it's preferred from an
architectural perspective and as far as the covered entrances I don't have an issue with that um you know probably something that is similar to Paige Street or Fearing Street where there's a small little gable end is an option or to Mr hold suggestion to just continue
out the roof line over a couple of posts the depth of the landing uh we're open to either of those configurations all right and then the only follow on I'm sorry to interrupt the only follow-on question I would have would be you know are you
primarily concerned with the primary entrance or both of them uh because the entrance on the south side of the structure here is is simply to address you know two means of egress from a building code perspective I don't see
that as having a whole ton of use yeah it occurs to me that instead of the uh plastic shutters which nobody likes uh some of those buildings the ADUs they had just boards that as trim around the
windows and painted a little different color and that was I thought very attractive i wonder if that's something you could also consider that wouldn't be a big thing but maybe make it a lot more aesthetically pleasing
yeah thanks for that comment we are actually planning if in in the material specifications we're planning 3 and 1/2 in trim around the windows and 5-in cornerboards so again you know the first option uh shows no shutters so if the
sentiment is no shutters then we can drop them and it could be a hybrid of no shutters with this siding configuration uh and the trim and this this rendering doesn't do a great job of throwing showing the three and a half inch trim
but that's uh as as Mr mentioned that's the typical cornerboard size siding on the the as he said travesties of the 80s and 90s architecture so our our window casing being three and a half inches does enhance the openings so we have we have no issue with omitting the
shutters and would you have that three and a half inch casing around the doors as well yes we would great i wonder if I could see the third drawing again or the third Sure yeah i'm So for me the roof pitch is
much nicer in this one no objection okay and I like the two uh color sightings or the two different sidings i don't mind the shutters if they're not plastic looking um and I kind of like them but that's just um but
I but plastic shutters don't do if they look plastic then um I don't know i prefer the wood or woodl looking shutters sure but I definitely prefer the steeper um
roof and I think it makes um the unit look more like a cottage not like a storage unit so sure anyway just add one comment to the shutters uh we are and I understand where you're coming
from with the plasty looking big box store shutters we are proposing a a raised panel design a two panel raised panel to to emulate wood better and I just wanted to point out that the shutter will be 47 feet away from the public way so I think that making that
determination uh on a visual may be a challenge thank you Alan that makes me feel better tell me again what the shutters are made out of it's a vinyl composite we did submit some uh material brochures to that end um and it's it's a
solid panel as opposed to the louvered shutters but yeah again if if the overall sentiment is no shutters it's very easy for us to just not put them up i just don't like the ones that are made out of plastic and that look as if they're made out of plastic sure yeah i
don't know how to describe it um but but I definitely like that steeper pitch um and the two tones thank you when we researched the neighborhood a lot of the structures had shutters that was the only reason for My house has shutters
um so I guess I like shutters or at least I don't mind i think it looks I I think it it gives it a little added something to the windows nicole
um again just repeating everyone else's sentiment we really appreciate you um taking your time with researching what other houses were um doing and I think that kind of shows with you also just giving us several different options um
and I think um pull pulling in some of the appeal of the other houses as people have expressed I think you're getting with that two like the two-tone on the siding but maybe you know if you're um adding a black trim instead of the
shutters I think it's just um not those ones but even the next ones like just they did an you know the blue the yellow um just multi- different kind of colors bringing in just you know being quite attractive so you're doing this with the
multi- tone of the gray um so I think I was just kind of reiterating the broken siding with having the two different colors there and the deeper pitch um it's not in our purview to talk about
the parking but I think you're going to have cars like I I don't think they're going to go um to the bus necessarily so it you know it's just it's not part of our purview it's just something thinking about whenever you're adding structure
and adding people coming and they're going to park somewhere whether it's in your grass or something um which you know is kind of part of the element that comes to the neighborhood but it's not part of our decision-m um
on this unit that's all thank you so what I'm hearing is that people prefer the two tones um that you've got your two-tone design they prefer the
deeper stiff uh steeper roof and with a larger overhang uh there's a division between those who want shutters and those who don't i'm not sure that we've got a strong uh sentiment in one direction or the other and uh there is a
sentiment for some sort of overhang over your front door oh thank you are there other things that people would like to make sure goes into this uh Bruce I've just composed a set of uh six conditions which I would move a motion
in support of i've sent them to you Nancy and I've sent them to Walker and if you like I'll read them out yes please um uh so uh maybe I'll make this a motion and it can be uh uh I'll accept friendly amendments and so forth
but that uh the motion is that uh the certificate of appropriateness be granted to the applicant on uh uh 295 Lincoln Avenue for an ADU um uh based on the documentation
submitted um with the conditions as follows one that the roof pitch be 8 and 12 two that the shutters either side of the windows be eliminated three that the dual siding
material elevation treatment is preferred uh four that the principal entry have a roof protecting the porch area uh be it a gable or a continuation of the existing roof plane number five
eliminate the porch ballastrate unless required by code by building code and number six uh because it's not evident on the drawings but has been stated that the trim around the windows and doors be 3 and 1/2 in wide and that the corner
boards be 5 1/2 in wide arin Nancy there 12 participants should we open this to public comment at all or Oh thank you for noticing that uh yes we do need to do that before we do that um are
there more things karen uh Rita did you have something else you want i wonder Bruce if you could clarify i think it's number two it was too much architectural talk that I didn't quite understand the roof what were you saying about the roof oh you That's number one number one that
it' be an 8 and 12 pitch which was your your express preference a steeper roof basically okay i just didn't know the architectural terms of that yeah the the terminology is that it rises um 8 feet for every 12 foot of advancement so
basically it means that it's got a tangent of 12 over 8 but it's a steeper roof it's a 33 pitch a 33 degree roof but it's one that we're looking at now I think that's good one right yeah and if Alan's comfortable with that then I mean
I guess we could ask after we is whether Allan's comfortable with these conditions or whether he would push us to modify them in any way i'm okay with the conditions as proposed we have uh four people from outside the panel who would like to who are
attending and two of them have raised their hands to speak uh and I have something else to ask Nancy um when you're done with that okay can we bring Melissa Ferris into the room yep so Melissa you should be able to
unmute and make your comment hi uh I'm It's Melissa Ferris and Graham Caldwell my husband we are the Abutters at 285 uh Lincoln um you actually have the wrong slide for We're your direct neighbors we're the um the little library that you
have a slide of looking yeah we're Yeah we we are the actual next door neighbors that at 285 Lincoln um we wanted to say Allan has been a great neighbor he has done a lot to really improve the the house next door um and uh you know we we
have zero objection to this i I think we're happy that it's a singlestory we otherwise it would be looking right into our house which we don't love um also we're happy that there's no more parking yeah because there's already encourage more there's already a ton of cars there
i do think though that if it if it does result as Nicole predicts in people parking on the lawn that is going to look pretty pretty bad and I I think that uh the idea of putting up more screening there would be fabulous um
we're a little bit worried about uh Alan if you're going to have to take out a bunch of the trees that go between our house and yours and what that will sort of do to the feeling of both lots like the screening between them yeah the screening between them one of the major
trees is definitely on our property but there's several that I think between the houses that are on yours and we wanted to ask if you would consider putting planting like a row of arborvita between our on on the property line if you have to take them out or or just anyhow if
you would be up for it um and also we would like to say that we both like uh number two this the less tall roof well well yeah i I actually I see where where great is coming from with that it looks more like a college cottage i think they're they're much nicer than a lot of
the stuff that we've seen from other neighbors so um and again Allan has really been like he's done so much to make that house better and he's he really is I think a quite a great landlord um you know and and a a good
neighboring landlord so we're we're stoked to be next to him good thank you very much uh can you bring Jesse Margaret into the room next uh hi Walker i think you're muted can you guys hear me yes hi Jesse Major 32
Cosby Avenue i think I'm actually technically diagonally budding this property but um so I go by two or three times a day at least uh and I the conversation sort of danced around the point I want to make and when I read
your charter as a commission it says the protection of distinctive characteristics of buildings and places and it's that second part of places that I'd like to comment about because this corner lot with the two or three next to it that you could see in Allen's own
picture from the west side they're basically big naked baron lots and there's already parking lot that you experienced from Lincoln and yeah there's technically four cars but there's routinely five or six cars additional in the grass already at this house and so this is going to happen
more and more I'm sure with the new law change and Allan I I do appreciate what you've done for the house i'm not trying to prevent this for you but it's a bigger issue I see for the town really um but what this is the prime example to me because it's very
unsightly both this property and the ab budding properties looking to the east it's just pretty out of character of our whole neighborhood when you walk by already and this is just going to add to that it'll be an odd massing of buildings and sort of squeezed into these open lots and so I don't know if
the commission can require more screening if I don't know what the possibilities are but I'd love for you all to consider that and the you know perfect example all the pictures that Allan shared of existing ADUs they're all tucked back and pretty much shrouded in lots of screening and that's what
makes them really unobtrusive and fit in pretty well um so yeah other than that I I agree with all the positive comments so you know just just wanted to share that that thought for you all to consider thanks is there anyone else who wanted
to speak uh welcome um Nate just emailed me a picture of a house further down the street that has a a covered front door that I can show you the picture of right quick if you want to take a look at that
example face you see that yes so that's one that could be one way to do a more attractive and ornate front door that matches a house that's already in the neighborhood to me that's much more attractive and
that it gives it a much more distinctive character to it um I I would love to see something like that i think that's what's intended in the uh in the motion this also has steps that are wider than
the door and has these windows on either side of the door so it creates more of an entrance rather than simply just a door are those acceptable to you Ellen i'm sorry i'm not able to see the screen share uh I don't know if that's a You're
not view setting have you turned off your own screen share i have yep oh that's interesting i can see all the attendance but I'm not seeing the screen share are you still sharing it i am i
can forward this picture to your email right quick maybe if you open up Zoom to be the widest like over your entire um computer screen yeah I'm still not seeing it but I can look in my email yeah I just she just
sent it to you that open right now what we might note from that is that um uh Alan I think your proposed porches are quite narrow and uh if they were um
say 6 ft x 4t instead of 4 ft by I don't know 3 ft uh we could we could perhaps encourage you to make a 6x four uh porch 6t wide by 4t deep and
Maybe that could be a an additional condition if uh because that would certainly uh result in a sheltered porch structure like the one we've just been shown it would translate
to what Alan's proposing whereas if it was a smaller porch 4x4 or something like that the it would look like more like a telephone box that was attached to the house rather than something that was a little more generous i think that's a a good suggestion uh
the other thing I noticed in that picture that you that Nate just sent is that there's a lot more uh shrubbery around the house and it makes it look more like a residence rather than just a
box uh I strongly encourage more shrubbery when you put this in um I think it it just will make it more of a neighborly house or the street
do we uh Karen sorry well going back to what Gita mentioned was uh initially I think a requirement when this house was put in to screen the driveway i I imagine we could you know a lot could be accomplished to prevent this being
parking all over the grass if we put a condition of having some sort of screening to border that parking because uh as Nicole pointed out these people are going to have cars and it's probably
the parking is already a problem and then it'll be the students problem but it won't be the neighborhood problem of having the whole lawn covered the the remaining lawn covered with uh park w parked cars so we could make a requirement I suppose to keep the
character and as Jesse said this is going to be an ongoing thing to really um demand that there be some sort of screening to have the boundaries of the parking defined and that we can't Yeah just for
protection uh Alan I would like to address a couple of I guess I would say adjacent accusations over uh uncontrolled parking we do um as I said earlier I live and work in the community i drive by this property almost every
day it's on my commute to work um in the slides that I showed earlier there are stones surrounding the parking area for that very reason to control aggressive parkers um while there may be a guest that parks down the center aisle from time to time between the four parked
cars I have never once seen cars parked on the lawn and if anyone has documentation of that I'd love to see it or hear it we keep a close eye on this property and to um you know to kind of address some of those concerns there is
um you know controls through the rental permitting for parking which are already in place so if there is unruly parking and someone brings it to my attention and I somehow don't address it those mechanisms are already in place um as far as screening the existing parking
lot we're not opposed but the issue and the previous owner and I are are friendly to this day the issue was that most all vegetative screening because of the narrow aisle between the parking lot and the sidewalk tends to to mature and
either grow into the parking area or grow into the sidewalk so uh you know if a 4-foot fence for example would be a better option because it's more slender a stockade fence that could be something considered um if um you know screening
of across the lawn to the west of the proposed ADU is preferred we could put some marble there for sure because there's more room for that um but one of the challenges with um blocking the existing parking has been the the
narrowness of the green space between the parking and the sidewalk um so it's not it hasn't gone uh without consideration for us uh and the parking control is of utmost importance to us we
we uh want all of our residents to be considerate and to be good neighbors and I appreciate the kind words that our media butter mentioned that we're a good landlord and we keep an eye on things and I just want to you know reiterate that and point out that you know your worst nightmares on Main Street and
College Street is not us and to put us all in that same category is is perhaps not appropriate thank you for clarifying i wasn't intending to say that you are of the same it's more of a a worry of college
students not your uh you know hyper vigilance about it so I I appreciate that and we have owned the property for the last three years so well I think we've all noted how much better the property looks since you painted it quite appreciate the changes
it was a small change and it made a big difference thank you uh Bruce um I just want to say about screening and so forth whereas we've been able to with uh what this narrow seven-point motion if we add the requirement for at least a 6' wide
uh uh principal entry porch uh we've been able to stipulate uh uh what we would like the applicant to do in order to be uh to for us to pro approve the application for a certificate of
appropriateness but I don't know how we would proceed to get planting um I mean this there's no real way in which I can imagine uh in words describing how we could uh put planting in that
would so the only real alternative as I see it is to ask the applet to come back with a planting plan that for approval based on what he's heard but I'm not sure that that's is that seems to be a
bit um bit of a reach for us um yeah I think that's not a part of our purview it was more a request but it's not something that we can demand of him okay well if that's if we're comfortable with that then I won't try and draft anything
that relates to planting and uh based on what we've heard from the neighbors and others and and based on what we've seen with Allan with his conscientiousness so far as looking at the neighborhood is concerned maybe we just trust that the process will uh result ultimately in um
whatever screening that seems to be appropriate alan I just want to add that I don't have an issue putting some foundation plantings across the front of the house in that example that Walker shared there were some low shrubs across the front of the house no problem we're happy to add
those it's not a big expense for us it does soften the facade of the house the only thing we'd like to avoid is anything tall enough to obstruct the the light and ventilation for the occupants i wouldn't want it so tall that it covers the windows just for the purposes of making the structure disappear for
passers by so if if we can agree to you know a low shrub below the the sill of the windows uh we don't have any opposition to that and no opposition Mr to the 4x6 primary entry porch
that's that's not an issue it looks nice um we agree so um if if we could get to those conditions and get to a certificate uh we're happy to commit to that and then submit through Walker an
updated set of elevations to demonstrate that and perhaps the conditions could be uh you know subject to uh the submission i I am not available to attend the next meeting but it could be presented at the
next meeting uh just to show that we are you know prepared to comply with that condition that's not an issue thank you Chris um I I I don't think we need to uh make any conditions related
to planting i generally from an architect's point of view and from just health of buildings point of view um I I I dread foundation plantings a little they tend to get out of control and what they do is prevent air circulation and drying around houses they're basically a
bad fit for woodframed houses it's not so bad if you've got a house which is not made of anything that corrods rots or degrades with water but that's not the way we build and foundation plantings particularly are kind of treacherous they tend to grow up and
they tend to prevent the air circulation in the immediate vicinity of the foundation of the house which is gets wet because of what comes off the roof so I wouldn't uh want to push anybody to put foundation plantings in landscaping out from the house and all that that's
fine I think but foundation plantings I think are a are not a good idea or a good house brea you're you're uh muted brea I wanted to go back and talk about the
shutters versus the wood and I wondered about leaving it up to the owner whether to do shutters that looked like wood or the wood strips but I don't have a strong feeling i just um
I there if you put shutters on they're going to be plastic no one puts wood shutters on anymore they're too expensive do we have a Oh sorry um I just wanted to respond to the shutter comment it is our preference to have the wider uh
casings around the windows without shutters but we only brought the shutters as an option to mimic uh some of the architecture in the area so we we don't have a strong preference either way but with the three and a half inch casing trim around the windows I think
that that still uh you know pays some respect to the the existing drawings in the district i agree okay i I did think the four buildings you showed with that looked really nice so um
real shutters do look nice there's a logic to them uh they're not talking about real shutters yes so am I okay so we have a a sixpoint uh plan to uh with a motion do we have a second for
this motion uh point of order it's a seven-point motion now does you added a second yes the seventh was that the porch that the principal entry porch be at least 6 ft wide thanks okay we now have a sevenpoint
plan karen I second uh are we ready to take a vote yes okay uh although so I'll go do a roll call vote uh Steve uh yes gita yes bruce
yes nicole yes currin yes and I also approve it so congratulations Ellen uh and thank you for your a very thorough uh presentation i think it was very helpful to us and uh we also thank our visitors uh who spoke on behalf of your
project um thanks very much thanks for all your time i appreciate it okay uh what's next on the agenda Walker um sec to find the agenda again proposed heads to the historic district bylaw yes
that's what it was so I think these are the I don't think anything's changed since it was discussed at the last meeting um I just I guess are we ready to take a vote on the proposed changes to the
bylaw i think we are steve do you have any concerns about it you're you're muted i I made a number of comments and I don't know if they were adopted or not
um so uh I believe all all the comments you made were um last meeting i'm fine with it great good do we have a motion to accept it i'll make the motion for once okay yeah we accept the changes
and do I have a second second K okay uh let's move to a vote then um actually I have a point of order i wanted to The one thing I wasn't clear was the five the definition of a parking area being five spaces was that ever
being resolve was that ever resolved before um why the number five that's based on um regulations elsewhere in the zoning so it it ma it makes it match with the rest of the with the zoning okay okay
okay uh all right uh then we'll vote steve yes brea yes bruce yes nicole yes currin yes and I approve it too so uh
thank you Walker uh this is progress that we've been waiting for for a long time i appreciate your help with this uh what is the next thing on our and thanks for those great minutes it's great to have minutes yeah I appreciate a lot of things Walker has been doing uh she also
you all may not realize but she is very responsive to emails uh so she has been uh really responding quickly to anything we've asked about one of and one of the things that I did ask about was uh what is happening on that property at North
Prospect where they put up a fence without any approval so would you say something to the rest of the group about that because they probably aren't aware of it yes so there was a fence put up without approval um I guess that some neighbors or abutters brought it to the
attention of the building commissioner and they now have submitted a sort of retroactive permit application um they're actually going to be uh on the next agenda presumably to appear before you
uh okay so uh what else do we have on our agenda um we've got the the East Ammerst study letter and survey to send out to property owners but Gita did you have a question well I was going to say Walker that a neighbor brought up
another house that put in a large um air conditioner unit but didn't block it now I think it's larger than it's supposed to be without a block and that's on on I'm not sure the number on Elm Street but there only two houses on Elm so okay
we can take a look you can see it when you drive down and it's been there for maybe over a year and I understand that at that size it's supposed to be have something to shelter it okay let's take a look talk to me about it thank you
so good um has everybody seen the draft letter and survey okay good yeah this was also discussed at the previous meeting but um the one detail I need still before I finalize the letter and send it out is we need to
set a a deadline for people to return the survey and a date for a public hearing after that okay so I'm thinking presumably either sometime in May or early June would be good um for reference I'm going to be away on a vacation for the last two weeks of May
okay sounds like it's June then um [Music] and it could be uh June 2nd or June 9th uh Steve uh I'm going to be away the almost the entire month in May so June
9th would be better for me okay but Walker could you send me that letter i didn't see it in the packet i um I'm sure it's fine but I just like to take a look yeah I'm pretty sure it's in the packet but I'm happy to send it directly yeah I have a hard time getting to the packet for some reason yeah it's a
little bit of a convoluted process um yeah I'll send it to you june 9th sounds good to me i think the first is the day I'm getting home so the second might feel a little tight yeah okay so given that any other comments or
changes to that survey or should I go ahead and put the date in and get those sent out um I'm happy to wait if you want for comments from you i'm sure it's fine i mean I I I made some changes again and I'm sure that they were you know I think
you took most of them so I'm sure it's fine so this June 9th would be the hearing on the East Amherst LHT yes right okay it would not be a meeting
of the commission so the hearing would be um conducted by the commission right yeah you could combine it with the meeting of the commission and so is 3:00 a good time for that hearing as well or does that need to be at a different time you might consider
doing that uh later just to ensure that people who want to attend are able to attend if an evening would work for people i'm just going to speak i'm sorry to not raise my hand no we did it last time we we did a couple of them and they were at
the town they were at town hall they weren't done remotely would they be done at time because there was a lot of people that came i think that's also up to you um I know Zoom meetings and hearings do tend to get pretty good attendance people don't have to leave their house to attend so they like it
but we could also schedule two you could schedule one in person and one here or you could do it choose to do it in the town hall chris the the planning board has routinely conducting hearings particularly for our overlay
considerations by Zoom i I think that's probably the preferred way of doing it i think they generally get better attendance let's let's do Zoom then what better attendance seems like a good thing sorry
9th the 9th um Wednesday the 9th okay yeah so do you want to set it for slightly later do you want to start at four o'clock 5 o'clock six o'clock wait June 9th is a Monday not a Wednesday right saturday yes yeah okay okay
thought you said what time is good for people um well if you want it to be accessible to people who work I would recommend 6:00 or 6:30 5:30 at the earliest okay uh what
6:30 is when the planning board meets let's make it 6:30 because then people can have had something to eat before coming in um and how long should we allow for should make it 6:30 to 8:30 or what what is the usual
um I don't think we have to set you an end time we'll have a start time okay um do we have to um we have to publicize this somehow right yeah I'll send out the notices um I'll put a ad in the newspaper and post
it on the town website and I can ask the communications director to put a do a press release and stuff and then of course it will be letter to the property owners as well so the but the letter that we sent to the property owners yes they will all get invited yes they will
all get it yeah okay fine and that's going out shortly yeah if it's approved if everybody's in agreement I can get it out this week okay i just know mail sometimes takes a little while and all that great sure uh
okay do uh we need a mo we don't have a motion yet right but I think we need a motion to approve the draft letter and survey and uh ask Walker to send them to all the property owners um would someone like to make a motion
i'll make a motion again mr motion motion today um I move that we accept the letter and have it uh sent out okay and do we have a second second i second
we're getting seconds from France uh all right we'll move to a vote then um Nicole yes bruce yep uh Steve yes but I do want to make a conditional um I need to we
need to contact Chris Skellyy to make sure it's cool with him oh good point yeah so I'll email him right now okay and Gita yes karen and I approve also okay so conditional on uh Chris and if for some
reason Chris can't be here then uh we'll try to find a time when I'll email him right away and and Walker I'll get back to you by tomorrow thank you okay okay so that takes us to uh the LHDC design guidelines and thank you for sending us
those uh examples uh some came from Chris I think and there was one that was relatively close by that I thought was pretty relevant actually bruce you had something to say yes the the the site visit procedure was uh on the before
that so we either do it after this or make sure you don't forget it let's do this and then we'll go back to the site visit procedure um so Walker I'm happy to help with this uh okay
and maybe if if there's anybody else who wants to help if you would just let us know and we can make a private meeting with Walker to get together and figure out what we need to do i think we need to take some photographs uh as examples there's some really nice language
already in in these and they seem it seems like a really good idea to me i agree yes so Oh go ahead Kita no I just said I agree and I'd volunteer to be involved too okay great i mean would it be better um to get a C try to get a CPA
grant and hire Chris to do it since he does this sounds good or do you feel like it's something that you guys you know you think it's pretty straightforward i feel like we could do it ourselves but it's your choice i what I was going to
say is that I had started to put together an outline of the categories that we would need um and was going to ask for input on more specific details about architectural features and stuff but I think that referencing the ones I sent out it seemed like a lot of the
information is pretty boilerplate and a lot of it's pretty um standard so I don't know that we need a consultant necessarily to come up with a pretty decent set of guidelines but Okay because I know that he did I know he did it for Brooklyn yes he sent us the
Brooklyn one which is okay a a very detailed and very elaborate uh Okay one uh I think sooner is better than later and that's why I'm proposing that we move forward currently okay you're muted
i didn't mean to have my hand up sorry oh okay uh all right so uh Grid and I will help you Walker and we'll plan a time when we can get together and see what else you need us to do um and then uh the site visit procedure so we didn't
plan a site visit for this uh today's property i assume it sounds like all of us managed to get past there ourselves and look at it was really helpful that he had set out those posts to show us where the uh the outline of the building was going to be and uh but there are times when we
do need to have a site visit so let's talk um do people have thoughts about what they want um Chris um I mean I'm thinking of the way the planning board does it and uh which seems to work fine which is it's a it's
a case by case basis um uh the history of this commission uh we've had site visits for example when we were considering the peace place project uh certainly when we were
considering the uh the um Amis media project down on Main Street um uh but but actually fairly rarely i mean probably I mean probably no more i don't agree to Karen you've been on almost as
long as I have um maybe five times have we gone on a site visit uh and it's because we've concluded that we uh we needed to uh so I guess we could whether we need to
establish some principles now that would indicate whether [Music] um will be indicators of whether a site visit would be necessary or whether we simply leave it to a combination of Nancy and Walker to confer and then if
if they decide that the site visit is proposed Then they sent out an email asking us when we can come i would prefer that solution rather than us trying to put together some descriptors of uh what would require the site visit and what wouldn't cuz we're probably not
going to cover the full territory so I would suggest that we leave it to a conversation between Nancy and Walker and and then their recommendation uh we act upon that by setting a time well let
me suggest that uh you also all feel uh that you can write to me and let me know if you feel like a site visit would help you because then I can work with Walker to set one up beforehand nicole you wanted to say something
um was part of this coming out of the gentleman um Mr a roof that thought that the bylaws were written that we must do a site visit on each application or something like that so I'm wondering if
that needs to be reread or confirmed um because that's never been our intention as a group you know I think the definition is a site visit is our whole group going versus each
individual member may look at the property from the public way um so I think I'm wondering if it's that distinction um that needs to be clarified for the public um and then secondly agreeing
with Bruce I I think a formal site visit comes out of us not having enough information whenever we meet as a group and it becomes a second tier of investigation on a property
so I did talk to the building commissioner about this and he did have the opinion that in general you probably should be doing site visits um it does say that you will in your charter and it also does kind of prevent this issue of
coming to a hearing and having additional questions because it gives the commission an opportunity to ask the questions of the applicant ahead of time so you come to the hearing with all of the information um I don't think it's necessary for everybody to attend if some portion of the commission is able
to attend a site visit at least some portion of the commission then has that information is had the opportunity to meet with the applicant ahead of time and you're probably right that not every project is going to require it but I do think anything that require that's like a significant alteration of a building or in a new building would certainly
should certainly have a site visit in my opinion well that that sounds reasonable to me i mean we we could have had a much shorter meeting today if we had first visited Bruno with uh
the owner and or architect and the same is true of this house down the street on Lincoln so um if it if not everybody has to be there then I think it's okay if we have to buy a time when everybody can come together that's a little more
difficult chris um Nancy I think you misrepresenting uh the we might have had a shorter meeting and the reason I think you're not correct in that or you shouldn't be correct is that the site visits are very constrained um a lot of our conversation
today was how we might condition approval of this uh this this this applicant and we're not allowed to talk about that um outside of a public hearing so the site visitor is really only to gather data on the site we're allowed to ask questions we're not
allowed to discuss anything so that's why I I I I think it's it's a bit like asking a lawyer whether you need a lawyer to ask uh Rob whether we should have a site he's not going to say we shouldn't um but but uh but we we we
really don't need it unless we have some aspect of the site that we have to collectively understand as opposed to just familiarizing ourselves with the facts on the ground that are visible to anybody who shows up and and
and and looks so site visits we we are not allowed to do any deliberation and so it's not going to shorten a meeting except unless it uh eliminates uh confusion
but involves a lot of information sharing um in the at least the ones that I've been involved in uh if the architect is there then you know they answer a lot of questions relative to what they have planned and that's all I meant by that that's true that's true
oops i didn't take my hand down so I guess honestly though if we're not all there which I think is then you don'tain anything then all the information is going to be repeated when we gather on right i I still think that if not if
we're not all there I'm not sure I see the reason for doing a site visit so um is it possible for us to alter that part of the uh
charter so that it's not always expected that we be doing a site visit sure it is i'm not I don't know off the top of my head the um the criteria for altering the charter whether it has to be Okay is it really Does it really say
we have to do a site visit i mean that I can't imagine that we're required to do a site visit um I've got it i can open it up right here um cuz the planning board's not or if it is where we've been routinely
uh remiss and it doesn't seem to show up it seems to me and and again the expectation that everyone will attend i've been on the planning board now for 3 years and I was on it for 7 years profile that's a total of 10 years in no
situation ever in those 10 years did I attend a site visit where all of the board members were present it's usually at best half h then I'm not sure I see the reason why we require it
trying to find it i don't know if it's in the charter or just in the rules and regulations so maybe I need to do a little more research on this talk to the building commissioner again and maybe there's a way to write it that the commission shall do a site visit or
individually visit the property as determined by the chair or something like that that that would be excellent to do that because I think we are routinely all visiting these properties it's just that we're not doing together and since you are only considering things available
from the public way there generally may not be a reason for you to enter the property like there might be for the planning board right right that's right all right so we'll leave that one for the next meeting then to be resolved uh
okay then is there anything else that anyone wants to raise is there any new business old business unresolved business steve sounds that looks like Sorry uh so there will be no May meeting
regular May meeting of LHDC the next scheduled meeting is June uh 9th and that will include the a hearing for the East Amherst LHD but we will need to have a hearing before that for the North Prospect Street project so you could do
the 28th of April or you could have an out of um uh an extra meeting at the beginning of May and this is for the fence that was put up without any permission okay uh let can we meet on the 28th of April
because several people were going to be away for May um maybe it'll end up being a short meeting but let's do the 28th well no because that doesn't give me enough time to get the legal notes ah you need a two week yeah so it would
have to be at least the 5th of May okay uh Senco Deo does that work for everybody let's schedule it and that does give you enough time right yeah because it's two weeks in advance
okay do you anticipate any other projects coming to us during that time um I just got an email today and I can't remember if it was you or the historic commission no that's a demolition delay
so no I I haven't seen any others at least and if they don't in the next week they won't get on that agenda so Right okay all right well uh thank you Walker again for all of your work on our behalf and for working with Allan to come up with some better plans i know you spent
some time with him um yeah he was very willing to work with me so good uh do we have a motion to adjurnn so moved second second all those in favor yes yes
bravo meeting is adjourned thank you bye-bye thank you