Great. Okay. Hi everybody. It is 7 o'clock on November 24th. Um we are here to open the meeting of the Ammerst Historical Commission um this evening. Um I'm just going to
start with a roll call of attendance. Uh Joel Greenbomb just say here >> here. >> Um Pat O is not here. George Baitinger. >> Petty startup
>> here. >> Kenzie Lansiddle is not here and I think not expected. And then Robin Forom I am here. So we have a quorum of four members. So we can go ahead and start our meeting. Um we'll just uh
have a little preamble here to remind everyone in attendance um that this uh public meeting of the town of Ammeris Historical Commission is uh uh according is operating according to the laws of
Massachusetts and uh is being conducted by a remote participation. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure the public
can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing has been posted on the town's online calendar. Um, and with that, we can proceed to our
agenda. Um, the first item of our agenda is approval of meeting minutes um from October 20th, 2025. um for approval. Approval requires a vote. So, uh the chair will entertain a motion to approve the meeting minutes of
October 20th, 2025. >> Seconded. >> Uh okay. I'm going to call that a so moved, which would be first. >> Thanks, Eddie. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Joel seconds. Um and so we'll take a vote uh for approval of the um October
2025 20th 2025 meetings. Uh Hedi >> I >> Joel >> I >> George >> I >> and I also vote I so the motion passes board zero.
Uh next item on our agenda is announcements. Bless you Walker. Uh any any any announcements from your end? >> No, I don't think I have anything. >> Okay. Um, I know that well we uh I would just
throw in the announcement section that um I know we talked about um getting the uh Mil River applicants uh in front of our commission today and last week um the CPA meeting which was scheduled to meet with the um uh rest of the historic
preservation um proposals uh was not able to meet due to a posting um issue. Um so we actually uh did not need to reorient them in or they will be automatically be reoriented
in the CPA meeting presentation structure so that this discussion will come before that one. Um and with that said that brings us to item C uh CPA projects. Um we have uh two
uh proposals uh regarding the industrial history of the Mil River. a passive recreation proposal and a completion of a historical survey proposal. Um I see that Meg Gage uh is uh been led into the meeting. So um I think uh at
this point Meg we generally ask um applicants for CPA funds. Hi Meg. To um to go ahead and give us a presentation. Oh, you're muted. A presentation of And now I'm unmuted.
>> Sure. >> A short presentation to the the uh commission and then um we can go ahead with questions um related to your two proposals. I will start off by saying we had a little >> brief discussion before. >> Could I ask you
>> Yep. >> to bring in when we were ready to hear about our proposal Brian Harvey and Margaret Orlock. I think they're in the audience. I'm not seeing them in the >> I've got Brian here as a panelist. Um, >> okay. Oh, there's Brian.
>> I've got someone in the audience that's simply called iPad. >> Oh, that's probably Margaret. >> Okay, >> that's Brian. >> All right, >> Brian, if you could bring in Margaret and Brian with comparable to me. I've gotta get money.
>> I just wanted to start off uh before um >> before we get going here, just to say I had brief uh discussion with Walker. Um and I know that for the um passive recreation proposal um it was submitted both under historic preservation and recreation
and um I think the feeling here within at least between Walker and I and I'm not sure what the position the official position of the town is is that that it is extremely unlikely that that proposal would fall under historic preservation that does not actively preserve.
>> Yeah, we agree with you and didn't intend that. We intended it to be a separate proposal, completely unrelated, but I mean it's interesting because it demonstrates where we hope to take the project, but it has nothing to do with the request for historic funding.
>> Okay. Great. All right. >> Thank you. We are we're all on the same page. >> Okay. All right. I'll give you the floor and um let you go ahead. >> So, Brian Brian, Margaret and I are going to help introduce tell you give you an update on where we're doing.
We've been funded twice for this project by CPA with for the historical funding and we've delivered above and beyond the deliverables in both in the both of the grants that we received. Uh and we're it's it's a wonderful uh project to have
unearthed so much more than we expected especially in this difficult national time when we all need something positive to be thinking about. So I'm going to hand it over to Brian. I want to first introduce Margaret who's in the middle of my screen. I don't know where she is on your screen and she's our uh
historian who's been extraordinary. Uh all of us have worked hundreds of volunteer hours unfortunately including Margaret but uh it's been very satisfying. So I'm going to introduce Margaret and introduce Brian who will take it from here I think. Thanks Brian.
Thanks Margaret. >> Great. Hi everybody. Thank you. Welcome. >> So I'm going to try to share here. Is that possible? Yes. Uh, let me get this out of the way. Let me turn this on.
Hold on. Hold on. I couldn't get it to sit there. >> I'll just say while you're doing that, Donut stands for the uh, District One Neighborhood Association, the sponsor of the project. Just to explain what donor is. >> Great.
>> Okay. Signing off. Well, as Meg said, how we got here was this is now three years ago, just some some of the folks up here in the neighborhood kept looking at some of the stuff that was along the river that obviously the remains of something and people had various stories. Uh we wanted to look
into it. Uh sort of a community-based project. Dona organized it, helped organize it by creating a kind of a structure for it. And then as Meg said, we had two earlier CPA exploratory grants. One was in the FY23 cycle, one was in the FY24 cycle. Um, in the FY24
cycle, we knew there was a lot more to be done, but we didn't know exactly what it was. So, this was sort of pivotal. It's the reason that we weren't here in the FY25 cycle was because we were really trying to get our heads around what this actually consisted of so that
when we came back, we'd be able to have a good sense of where we were and what we wanted or in the 26 cycle. Well, let's see. This is the is this I'm not going to try to figure out which there were two previous ones. I'm just a new one. And then we've also
raised $32,700 toward this project over this over the same period. And there's been a lot of interest and uh I think without the the CPA financing, we would not have been able to get that kind of private giving. So, thanks for that. So,
as Beg suggested, three years into this, there's much more here than we ever anticipated. Um, I'm going to give you a sense of that in a minute. And so, where we we now have our heads around it through the sort of research phase of this and now we want to go forward and make what we've found available to the
community. And that means two things. The one we're talking about with you tonight is completing that historical survey that will allow the incredible amount of information we've been able to uncover about this area and its history to be available not only to our project
but to the entire community, school curricula, people who want to come along and do follow-up projects. And that's what we're talking about here. And then the other one is the is one of the opportunities for that is the website and trail project which we have as a passive recreation proposal.
So in a sense this is the same I mean more so much more so if you think about this here's where we began right see these green boxes this is what the first CPA grant allowed us to look into the two uh paper mills uh Robert's paper
mills down here on the river below the railroad bridge and the canal and the the grist mill over on Monagu road this is what we really focused on also something called the clam club that turned out to be not quite as interesting as the >> minor
>> minor interesting. And so then we with that um under our belts uh then we issued we put in that second request and that was these blue things, right? We knew about the the puffer ice business that had been at the puffer pond and we
knew that a lot had gone on up here in uh this is below the um right below the bridge right at the corner of State Street and uh Bridge Street, >> Cover Bridge. Yeah, the silver bridge some people call it. Um, you see if you look closely, you can see traces of it now, but you wouldn't necessarily expect
to find it there. Tons of stuff was going on. We didn't know how much, but we that second CPA grant let us really get into this. And then the pages started to turn and I would say that um it was a shocker to us but it was you know also very exciting because in the
interim since we've last been before the CPA committee this is what we've turned up and this >> thanks to Margaret >> thanks to Margaret this is uh we think a pretty complete sense of what's there I don't think we anticipate finding any
more sites maybe a a has changed hands somewhere along the line. But I'm going to stop here for a minute because in some ways it's overwhelming, but it makes a lot of sense. It extends all the way down. If you look on the bottom left, this is an area called Westville, which I never
heard of, but actually most people never heard of. It's right on Meadow Street just before you get to the 116 bypass. And this was the site of a textile mill, a paper mill, and then a longstanding woodworking and planing mill, no trace of which currently exists. And the other
end way up here, uh, if you go out on East Lever Road, you go across the bridge, go out East Lever Road, and there's a place where the river sort of comes back in to the road. There's a rickety bridge across. We believe that was the site of the what was called the old Kushman paper mill. And the Kushmans
were one of the uh driving forces of all of this activity on the river along with the Roberts family, the Puffer family, the Jones family. Um, but in between the area we're really focusing on because these are along the trails, right? This is where you can walk along the con from
the wreck area down here along the trails. You get all the way up to the bridge and a little beyond. And this was Factory Hollow. This is the place where we've heard a lot. Um, we knew a few things happened there, but it is absolutely astounding. um from 1727 when
the first grist mill started here all the way into the 1930s when the last paper mill and the last wood planing mill ended. Um this was an absolute beehive of activity. You can see just the number of locations and what's really striking. You can see many of
them especially this one up here that corner of State Street and Bridge Street. It was it was just in constant motion. There was this whole series of grist mills, then a sawmill, then grist, then textile mills, and then a succession of some very quite
significant paper mills just to that one spot. And similar things happen in many places up and down the river. A single spot would become a real beehive of activity. One of the reasons for that, of course, is u that these places were reused is
this is not a big river. There aren't a lot of places where you can accumulate enough water to really power a waterpowered miller industry up by the um up by the bridge obviously um there's a big rapids there right now that used to be damned up and that created a tremendous amount of water power and
then here we are down at Puffer Pond and here's the dam we all know actually it was the second dam there. Whoops, I didn't mean to do that. And it was um well I'll just keep talking because this is the next slide anyway. And here there were some very very early uh mills. There was a grist mill and a sawmill.
Here they were some of the very earliest activities because this was the obvious place. It was called the great falls. There's even a suggestion that might have been an indigenous term for it. And this uh but you can just see how this has gone over the two and a half
centuries of activity. Now one obvious problem just from looking at the previous slide. This stuff was of all different kinds in all different times in all different places. So, one of our struggles has been how to organize this activity in a way that can
really be useful to people trying to understand it in the community. And so, one of the things we've done is to I'm got to turn this back on. One of the things we've done uh and this became very clear after a
while was instead of looking at it like that, you can look at it like this. So, I'm going to stop here for a minute so you can kind of get the picture here. Across the top are years from 1725 out to the mid 1940s.
And there's two sort of stripes of activity. This is the local economy, the agrarian economy, the exchange and barter economy, a lot of outwork. And this was, you know, the bris mills, the sawmills, the blacksmith shops, and eventually the ice business. And this
came and went throughout this entire period because Amoris, North Amoris at least, was an agricultural area really well into the mid 20 uh 20th century. But then down below is where you begin to see how industry came in. So there's
the two big industry industries were paper. So we have that here. And then the green are the textiles. And then there was a smaller but very significant um wood not not a sawmill business industry but artisal woodworking um
planing mills and these were driving not only the North Ammerson Kushman areas but much of the town you'll find these these uh these mills playing a large role uh up and down the history of the town. So this helps us trying to get a sense of what's going on. Um and then
when we started looking at it this way, it began to raise a number of questions. This is just an example, but why did a farmer with no business experience build a cotton factory in the wilderness of North Ammeris? This was absolutely the
middle of nowhere. And here it is. This is an interesting this is from the early maps where where they drew this as if it was the Taj Mahal. Um it was a substantial building. It was 80 ft long and 30 feet wide, three stories high. But no, it did not span the Mill River
and was not a half a mile long. But this is this kind of reflects the importance the importance of this in the minds of the people who were in the community at the time. So here if you look here, this is the textile stripe of that that representation we just looked at. And
here in 1809, this is Ebenezer Dickinson. He was a distant relative of Emily's. Um there were many distant relatives of animals involved. Um in 1809 just out of nowhere there was nothing else like this on the river. He
just he built a very substantial cotton mill. And one of our questions was trying to one of our frameworks was trying to understand what was going on. And so you get into this and you can answer you can answer in a number of ways. We talk about this because the
Napoleonic Wars, believe it or not, had a lot to do not only in Ammeris, but in New England in general with the development of textiles. Um, when the Britain and France were in their global struggle, um, as we all learned, and I
hope we still learn in high school, the uh, British Navy tended to impress US citizens into the Royal Navy. It was a big boat boat in tention. uh the the fledgling republic didn't have a lot it could do about it, but it did pass the
um some trade embargos. the uh embargo the let's see the non-importation act of 1806 and especially the embargo act of 1807 all in the leadup to the war of 1812 um suddenly cut off the supply of European textiles of manufactured textiles from
Europe and in an in almost an instant that created an environment in which the domestic textile industry began to emerge and Ammeris was a small player uh you know lawrence many other places were were much bigger but you can see in the backdrop what happened in Amoris was
part of a much larger set of circumstances. And then as you go on we ask the question well textiles were very small for a while then all of a sudden there was a tremendous burst of activity and then equally suddenly it all went away. So we're trying to
understand that as well. And part of it was after the treaty of Gent was signed and the uh trade was restored and the there was a flood of European textiles. And you can see that our and we actually this story here is quite interesting. But our little fledgling Dickinson mill
struggled and struggled. In fact, in a moment I'll use that as an example of something else. And nobody was able to do much of anything uh during that period. But then after the uh after a while there's a certain amount of financial speculation going on and you
began to see others come in. This is a different one. This is now the Ingram family. Another one of the big families in the along the Mil River and the Jones family. This is the this is not the Kohl's Jones. This is the uh father and grandfather of Samuel Minot Jones. And
they were the big names in textiles along the river. But then the panic of 1837 came along and everything again came to a crunch. And it wasn't until the economic recovery began about 1844 and then the gold rush threw a lot of capital into
the country and the railroad bubble. There was just mad cap speculation in this stuff. And right here on our own little river there were uh a series >> a series of >> well yeah it's uh and they were both the
Ingrams and the Joneses. They were the principal uh industrialists if you want to call it that. But then you get the panic of 1857. the railroad bubble burst like the AI bubble I'm sure will burst and the whole thing
came to an end almost as if you cut a knife down through it. Now eventually the civil war uh boom came along and the demand for domestic textiles went up and other parts of the country but it was too late for for these this group of uh this group of entrepreneurs and these
all started to disappear. It's a it's a it's an interesting uh conception when you think about you had this guy here. He's an example. Here's another example of Ebenezer Dickinson. That's his mill that we just talked
about. He went he we said he had no business experience. He went bankrupt after just two or three years. He was owing his local creditors and he was getting ready to skip town. But this was found out by someone and the constable took a warrant and went to his house and
found up in his attic stuffed with all these finished goods from the factory that he had sucked away and was about to leave for Ohio is. So he was caught. He did go to Ohio, but as he left, he said he issued a violent curse on factory factory hollow and all the mills to
come. Very interesting. Do we believe any of this? Who knows? But in the ensuing years, whether it was because of Ebenezer's curse or not, a formative formative factor or deformative factor in the
valley here, the river valley here, was the burning of the mills. Um, and one flood, lots of fires in one flood. That one flood wiped out the the Leonard Hills hat factory which was an extension of the downtown operation that
was built on the river. And this is a a fascinating story not only because of all the different interplays and the and the factors that led to the development and the changes in ownership. A lot of these factories changed hands two, three and four times, but at the end of the
day in the textile uh slice of industry there, they mostly came to a fiery end. So, we've been telling the story. I there's many more of these we could do, but I know we have limited time. We've been
going around telling the story as much as we can. It's a sort of work in progress um based on the history we were able to do from the original investments and we have found that the community is just incredibly interested. Um we did a little progress report on this uh back
in the spring in the Amoris current and a similar piece in the indie uh that hundreds of people read. Then we did a one of the Ammeris Historical Society history bites uh and filled the bang center room that they use. Another couple of hundred people watched the video. Uh we did a thing at Applewood
the other a few weeks ago that was a very successful and just on Sunday I did a guided walking tour along the trail for again for the historical society um in which 25 people walked three miles over a two and a half hour period to
get this story in their heads. So, as far as we can see, this is a not only uh is it an interesting story, but it's a very important story in the community. And in many ways, it's probably the largest untold largely untold story in
Amoris history. People know a lot of things about Amoris, but this is surprise after surprise. And so, this is what we're we're trying now. We're we're back one more time now that we know what we've got now that the history has been largely completed to put together what
it takes to pass this work on to the community through the completion of this historical survey. And so what we're here what we're looking for and what we need is the funding to bring it all together that both creates the arch I call it the archive. We can talk about
what that consists of and then of course this other proposal to develop the trail and website. and we're really hopeful that we can get an additional slug of CPA funding and we're committed to continuing our private fundraising. So, that's kind of a
overview of the whole thing. Uh we're happy to answer questions and we could tell a lot more stories, but uh we that's that's sort of our opener here. Thank you. >> Let me unshare. >> Robin, one of the qu people may want to ask questions about some of >> Yeah, I'll keep this up for a minute if
there are questions. >> People may want to ask questions. There's a whole whole bunch of other uh material that's been developed by Mar largely by Margaret particularly about the development of the community, the library, the church, and uh the the nature of work, what work was like, the
nature of capital. U and those are things people may want to ask about, but to keep this presentation short enough, you know, there's a whole lot Brian didn't say. And again, thanks thanks to Margaret. I mean, there's just uh a whole lot. For examp I'll just give
one example. For example, uh it's estimated that 300 up to three there's a lot more money to be made if you produce clothing rather than just sell bolts of fabric. And one of the products that was made was called a a wrapper which is like a morning coat. And up to we think
300 women and probably girls were making those cottage industries. And they would go to the local store and get the bolt of fabric and bring it back. and they would instead of getting money would get credit in the grocery store. So a lot of
this was well before uh was not related on to cash. So it's a so there's a whole other layer that um Margaret's discovered and we're all worked on that you may want to ask about in your questions. Well, let's just let's just add one
thing to what you said because this you know in some ways you could begin this by looking at oh there's a foundation there must be a building what was in the building and you see obviously see where that goes but the social and cultural and economic aspects of this are what are the really compelling story as me was suggesting the what we discovered
and we were very fortunate that there's a Cambridge University economic history professor who for some reason wrote a spectacular book on the origins of industry in western Massachusetts with Ammerst as one of the uh case studies. So we've actually
>> Cambridge England, not Cambridge >> Cambridge. Yes, Cambridge, England. Yeah. Oh, that Cambridge. Yeah. So, and and and the short version of that thesis that he puts forward is that Ammerst in particular was very late to coming into the cash economy, wage labor. Unlike
Chap and Hoyok and a lot of the other places that became rural industrial centers, this was an entire this was almost predominantly a kind of hybrid operation where a lot of the factory work was done by farm usually women uh the wives and the daughters who would go
to the store. They'd get the raw materials or the half finishedish materials that had come out of the factories. they'd go home and produce these finished goods, bring them back, and that would go into into trade, which is how capital finally hard money
finally got into North Ammerst and and actually in large measure into Ammerst. and the social um um features and consequences of that. Not only did it it did bring some money into the farm economy that would not otherwise have been there, but of course it was pretty
exploitative because the women were doing these this work at wholesale and getting paid in store credit which they had to use for retail. Um but it was unlike much of what you think of in New England industry. It's one of the reasons the river is so interesting.
It's also one of the re reasons nothing is there anymore because this was not a viable economic model. We couldn't compete with Hoyok and Chikabi. We couldn't we weren't producing high quality goods to export. And so in Ammerst in
North Ammerst all of this activity came and then it all went away. >> And there's another part of it. I don't want to keep this too long but a community developed around North Ammers. We had the first library in town uh
built in 1892. Uh we had the first one of the early churches the congregational church was built in 1824 I believe and the was very much the hub of Ammerst abolition society. >> We have you know that so it's uh it became a real village center which it
still is today but those uh the bait store uh on the corner was the store anyway. Well, the bait store is very interesting because it's in a way a response to the transition from barter economy to cash economy. You know, it
was a cooperative store. It was part of a cooperative movement very very early. Most cooperative movements are post civil war, but this was was pre-Ivil War. And um there was something else I was going to mention, but it it slipped my mind.
Margaret, was it the the relationship between the mill owners in the community, which is another really interesting aspect. This isn't like you go through Thorn Dyke and you see all the mills and there's the Manor House up on the hill. That was not what happened here. The the scale of activity wasn't
so great. And the mill owners were really part of the community. They tended to be the abolitionists and the people helping them running the lysum and the um the the the sort of pillars of the community, but in a way in which there
was much less of this class distinction than you saw in many of the other New England industrial communities. Quite interesting. >> Yeah, very much so. Textile being a little bit of an outlier. Thomas Jones had a, you know, a really nice house in Ammerst.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. the Kushlands, the Roberts, the Ingrams, they all had farm houses or houses very much like their neighbors. And as you say, they ran or were very important in the um the organizations that were coalescing as the community
coalesed. And of course, they're part of creating that community >> because more people are moving to the center because you had to be within walking distance of your work. >> So, um as more mills are built, more people are building homes close to the mills.
Um so I w to this has been such a fascinating and excellent presentation and um I want to steer the discussion a little bit toward away from the particulars of the history and toward
the budget and the ask for the project. Um, and I'm going to start off by saying that I mean Magg is familiar with this and um that you know when this project first came um we struggle a little bit under CPA a historic preservation
project is supposed to acquire, preserve, restore or rehabilitate. And um I know that we began, you know, a lot of this is up to the town how they want to define projects, but we began by arguing for um the fact that
documentation of historical resources is necessary for their ultimate preservation. >> Um the excuse Robin, could we get rid of the screen so we can all see each other? >> Oh, I think sorry to interrupt. >> All right, hold on. So,
>> um I'm currently the rep to the CPA committee and so um we're going to have a discussion here among our other commissioners, but um I'm trying to frame this in a way that I would expect it would also be discussed there, which
is um to look pretty closely at the numbers. Um there was a little bit of confusion and I apologize I can't recall. I know I asked a question in the question and answer se section for CPA. Um the ask for this particular project
was listed as 105,000. Um but the budget showed 125. So I wasn't sure um what that particular discrepancy was. tax will raise. >> So, so the so you will because the
budget says CPA requests 125,000 but the but the application itself requests 105. So those are in conflict for with one another, >> right? And I think you pointed out in the in your question it could have been a typo and I went back. >> Yeah. So there's something in there. >> Um >> sorry.
>> No, no, that's okay. I mean it's important to know whether we're really looking at 125 or 135, >> right? Um and then I will just say that my concerns are really trying to figure out um both how this work is defined in terms of
um creating projects products that help the town manage existing historic resources. I think we have a large number of resources here for which we're documenting the history the re there's no trace of them. Um and then the second
piece would be um a lack of uh any sort of breakout of you know so if we have $10,000 in indexing it's not clear how many hours um who the person is doing that um and and what the expectations
are there. So, um I will be honest. I found the ask of 105,000 particularly large. Um and I I only see about 60 of this falling within CPA guidelines. Again, that's, you know, that's an
argument for me to make and it's up to the town to decide, but um archaeological and physical data would be entirely unrelated to um like I work for the Mass Historical Commission now and I know that archaeology is, you know, they're just a
separate division in terms of preservation. So, that's the the key word to keep in mind here is preservation. So, um those are those are my concerns and questions. Um and uh I will just open it up to other commissioners. I mean I think it
is a fantastic historical project and we've had other I mean I can think of one in particular someone came to us with um an interest in doing uh sort of a tour of stained glass within Ammerst uh under CPA funding and we said that
just that does not it's wonderful and it doesn't apply. So, so that's, you know, kind of where I'm looking at these numbers and both both concerned about having um a more specific um breakout of, you know, personnel hours and hourly
rates and also understanding that I think some of some of these areas are might not might not fall under what the town would consider to be appropriate for preservation. >> Um, but my last point or two two more points. My last point is that I think we
talked about this before. So, um, the Massachusetts I'm gonna I'm gonna screw up the acronym. I always do. the macro system that operates out of MHC. um any exit buildings within this survey, if they are either not
documented or um documented in 1978 where you have four lines of text, um it would be fantastic to see this project um have a line item for the production of of those forms because those are
really directly related to how um the town with something that's exent can use that when particularly in demolition delay um so for planning purposes. So, that's a really direct product and I would encourage um a
consideration to see if the um your group could come up with at least a list of those properties that are still exent and uh whether they have a uh whether they're lacking a macros form or um have a macros form that would need to be
updated. That would be super useful. Um, and then my my last question was just um whether you had considered um looking to the Ammerst Cultural Council for some of this funding because I know that they're um I used to work up in Greenfield and
and helped administer that program up there and that's a great >> um um opportunity for funding for more of the educational outreach that's part of this project. Um, with that, um, I'll leave you to answer my questions and then we can go on to my other commissioners and any questions or
comments they have. >> Well, I was going to ask Robin if you had had a chance to see the responses we put into the to your questions because they're terrific questions. >> Oh, thank you. You know, and I did and now I've they've just, you know, I >> apologize for having to make you repeat
them, but my my fellow commissioners have seen them. So, >> but we Yeah, we answered we had wrote extensive responses. >> Um, we could send them to you again. >> No, no, no. I think you >> summarize for either. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Summarize for But Go ahead. Go
ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's I mean the macros point. Absolutely. Um, >> you know, we we just need to, >> you know, we're doing this a little bit from the outside. We don't know exactly how to phrase some of this stuff, but that would be in our mind an ideal use of some of this data. And all we need to
do is be pointed in the direction of how, you know, how that how that works. Um, so yeah, another question related question was, you know, where is this all going to be, right? You know, how's it going to show up? And we've had great conversations with Katherine down at the
Jones special collections and you know you're I'm sure you're all familiar with digital amorest and they're very excited about having this be a new feature in digital amoris because it's exactly the kind of platform that we would need to
have and of and the question you had about what the standards that would be used that you know they've got that figured out because they're part of that um I can't remember the name of it but there's a will come to me in someday. Um, in terms of the budget, uh, yeah, we we're part
of this is that having handled this material now for three years, you know, we've kind of begun to get some experience with it. And so as we look at the hours involved here, about twothirds of it, we think is is what's going to be needed to physically take the stuff
we've uncovered, right, and put it into not not just digitize it, but to put it into a form that's indexed that people would be able to find going forward. And I think, you know, Margaret can give you a lot of excellent examples. >> Where did Margaret go? >> Margaret disappeared again. One of the
things about this, this isn't related to if she comes back, we should ask her to chip in here. Are you there, Margaret? >> Um, we this has nothing to do with >> historic the funding we're talking about with you. But just so you know, our idea
is that this would be dynamic going into the future. And so there needs to be some capacity, small but some capacity to manage the website ongoing to develop it as uh to help for example teachers uh and students right use it.
>> That's not what we're we're reluctant to mention that because it sounds like oh we don't find that >> right now but jumping back I mean I don't know that I I don't know that creation of a digital archive is falls under that preservation rubric. That
would be my We have other we have other things we need to raise money for. I mean the indigenous chapter and the conservation chapter and the early geological we're not even talking to you about that's a whole there's three whole other we're raising other money for other things including this dynamic qual
ability of for the community to you to have access to this material in all sorts of ways. >> Right. So Bob and actually this is good because this is a question we've had too and a lot of the time and the hours and therefore the money involved in the
budget is that when we started this um we were going >> for us it was for some of us it was more like five years ago. Well, all right, fine. But however long it's been, it feels like longer than that, but the uh we thought this would be done by now. But the, you know, going through the
materials that the source materials, both the primary and the secondary materials, um, we kept uncovering stuff. You know, Jim Smith, a lot of you know, knew Jim Smith or know about his collection. Fantastic stuff, but it was not put in a form that a per, you know,
a a the community or someone could use. We've been spending a great deal of our time unearthing it. Um there's many other sources like that, too. Um but the the trick we're seeing here, the the real the thing that's missing, the gap
we're trying to fill is that we don't walk away from our little bit here and leave it to someone else to come back and do spend three years going through that stuff because no one first of all, no one will. But this is a resource, a collection of resources that need to be
made available about this whole, it's not a building, it's this whole vast area. So yeah, >> Robin, I'm looking to you to figure out how this kind of fits into the overall picture. >> Right. Right. I mean, that's, you know, that's it's really a challenge because it's sort of, you know, it's partly it's
partly an archival project. It's partly um uh historic existing historic uh resources documentation. Um it's partly uh could be you know go along toward a national register
nomination for a cultural landscape >> which is a whole other bucket of money >> right >> but I think that's the challenge here is really getting out chipping out you know pieces I would say in terms of macros forms you'd want to engage with some
professional um uh preservation preservation professionals who engage in this kind of work on a regular basis and then you could look at your list of extent resources and get an estimate
together that's would say you know this would result in this many you know it could be that it's an area form it could be individual building forms um but um that would give you one piece that I think that we could clearly say because that's what you know we're working on a
um on a mid-century modern um >> survey project, you know, to turn some of this into a survey project would be, I think, easily fundable. >> And then, you know, these other questions I think um you know, like I said, they're they're up to the town.
Um, I mean I I I I stick pretty closely to the magnosis stick pretty closely to the definitions that we're working under and trying to you know like we we I mean I think I'll
let my other commissioners speak for themselves. I mean it's a fantastic project uh in my view but um the big question is um you know what parts are eligible and how can those expense for me how can those expenses um be made
more clear in the same way that somebody who's looking at you know uh replacing uh a slate roof for example one of the proposals before you know you'd expect to see um a competit competitive bid process
um you know um resumes from you know the contractors demonstrate their capacity to provide >> right that was one of the other questions right >> and we I do want to just mention in that regard that um >> we did go through an interview process
originally to I don't want to use the word but to procure uh Margaret so we're our our hope to continue with her >> is is based on that original open process Yeah. >> Yep. Yep. >> I'm wondering if other commissioners have questions. >> Yeah.
>> I'll stop >> comments or >> Joel. Go ahead. >> Well, I'd like to thank you uh for your presentation today and also thank you for all your hard work. this is an incredible
uh research result that you've put together and um I'd like to see it cross the finish line. So um but obviously there you know there's
there's challenges as as Robin exclaimed described. So, you know, I think maybe we can just start by breaking down your budget and um you know, see what applies to us, you know.
>> Um I'm not saying anything new that you haven't heard already tonight, but mostly uh it's fascinating. It's fascinating and I think that it's very important to the town to have this. So, I'd like to see it get completed.
>> Thank you. and and in with respect to that I think the both in I mean the first two that were funded it's basically the same project smaller scale and the theory there I think it's the same one and and again we'll look at you to help us sort through that but it's it's the survey
it's a historical survey which is what we're trying to get to in in this particular context. So, I don't know if that makes sense to you guys, but that's kind of the way we've been approaching it. >> Ammerst had such an interesting industrial past, but you don't hear
about it that much anymore. And to have all this new >> new history is very interesting. >> So, >> Eddie George, do you have any questions or comments? Uh oh.
>> Uh not for me at this time. Um I you know one of the things that just was kind of clicking in my mind is that yeah Amherst you know so they had all the locals basically got together to solve their problems in this area so we
wouldn't have to deal with the rest of the world. And I find that interesting in that, you know, we stayed an agricultural community or at least the area did around here, but also we were then chosen by the Commonwealth to have
the flagship agricultural university sort of in the middle of this time or very near the end of this time period. >> Good point. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's that sort of feeds into it too. I think maybe >> you know mentioning that and kind of fusing that into your project
>> way of getting other funding because you know it would show >> at a much broader level at a state level >> that or a Commonwealth level that uh you know why this why this sort of thing is important.
>> Yeah, that's great. It's it there ways that these four chapters connect too. So the prehistoric, the indigenous, and then we're talking today about the industrial and then the conservation. Lake Hitchcock, which everyone has heard about uh was
prehistoric, the the border of it was pretty much along where now North Pleasant Street and Monagu Road are. Mhm. >> And if you compare the agricultural quality of the land west of that, some of the best farmland in the world, to
the quality of the farmland east of that where simple gifts couldn't make a go of it, >> right? >> It's extraordinary the the history. And then you have thousands of years of indigenous people using the river and keeping it pristine and safe and clean.
And in a short few hundred years, the colonists came and they brought their barberry that's invading the the wild and they, you know, the river became fairly toxic and uh and now then we have conservation restoring the river. >> Yeah. >> Uh oh.
>> Back to where. So this the longer story is interesting too, which is again not what we're asking you for funding, but our want to be sure that we know we understand historic preservation is part of it. Uh but the in the end the whole
sweep of it is one long story about the the what happened to this land the land. >> Yeah. >> Well that George, you know. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Well, I was just going to say to your point, we've we've recently been
thinking about the following question. >> Oh, someone let Margaret back in. Margaret back in. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt, but she's in the waiting room. >> Yep. the um >> Thank you. >> It was agricultural community, then it was industrial,
>> and then it goes back, but to what? Right. And we often wonder what would our community look like if they hadn't built the agricultural college here, >> right? >> What what would North Ammerst, Ammerst, or any of the rest of it look like? So,
there's an fascinating business about these transitions, and some of them were unpredictable. And Ammeris College was tiny compared to what Mass Aggi became >> and it was Ammeris was very conservative. Ammeris College was built
largely as a counterpoint to Harvard's liberalism. Uh and so Ammeris without Mass Aggie would have no UMass then it would have been quite a different place. you know, just, you know, that idea that, you know, the the federal system
created land grant colleges and this commonwealth chose to put it, you know, here, which like you were mentioning was a good, you know, agricultural fit, at least to the area to the west. But, you know, any any human beings like to
function along lines like this. What this is is basically just a mini fall line. you know, you you've got those areas like he was saying to to the east of this particular area and to the west and it's along those interfaces
that human beings get to do things like this. >> Margaret, do you want to add I'm sorry that you were I know your computer dropped dead, but you're muted and >> now you're now you're muted.
You're muted, Margaret. >> Unmute. >> Okay. Am I unmuted? >> You are. >> Okay. Excellent. Yes. So, sorry, my tablet did not charge and just suddenly died on me. Um, so I'm back on my phone.
So um when I left the question was misus. I'm sure you've moved way on since then. >> We could kind of circle back to that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know I have a national registered background and um we can add
a great deal to a number of the um of the buildings in the historic districts of Kushman and North Ammerst. Mhm. >> Um so that's that's a definite contribution that that we can make. >> Yes, I think that would it would be
useful um to put if you if you have time to pull this together before the um CPA meeting um a list of existing structures that >> um again you know whether they've been
they have an outdated MAC form form at all and they need to be updated. um that would be a useful >> uh aid I think to demonstrate you know if that was an outcome of the project if that was a deliverable. Um >> we've we've actually talked about
documenting we just didn't have time in this presentation. There's several of the factory housing >> that are still there. People live in them. Yeah, right. I counted >> I counted 69 resources um in my quick
tally before the meeting started. Um so >> we just we didn't have time to there's a whole lot we didn't to say. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Henny has her hand up. >> Um hi everybody and um hello to Brian
and Meg and Margaret who I haven't seen for a while. It's really nice to see you all. Um I am not sure I really should comment too much although I love this project partly because I am um a board member of donor
um and while I'm not going to benefit or you know profit from a CPA grant um I I I feel a little bit awkward kind of stepping into all of this and I
also was really involved in regular meetings as a volunteer in phase two of this project and have >> written a few articles about um the Mil River project as well for the Ammerst Indie. Um I would just like to say one
thing about what George was saying which I think is fascinating with Masagi. Um and if you look at the shift in Massagi from when it was bat to its next incarnation which was to get funding
through the land grant um act um that the land grant act as well as um borrowing all sorts of indigenous land across the country across the nationally um also was aiming to benefit both the
children, the sons and daughters of agricultural communities, but also machinists. >> And so that is I I'm really fascinated now to kind of see this Mil River project kind of tell that story. Brian,
you told such a great story and I wish I had been able to go on Sunday and I'm remembering that it was raining so you took those folks. >> No, no, no. It snowed a little bit. Um, but I think um
I don't really I'm very curious about how much money we actually have to play with. >> Very conscious that we have the um town hall roof project which is extremely expensive. I'm very conscious that we
have the Jones library making another um submission application for funding. Um, and I just I I want us to ev I want us to evaluate those on their own terms, but I also want us to think about
how Amos can most benefit from >> what we ask um, Robin to take to the CPA as our recommendations. I'm assuming we don't have to vote tonight. Um, but I would really like to see this project
funded and I think I'll leave it at that. Thanks. >> So I should I don't see a conflict. He I'm on the donor board also. >> Yeah. >> It seems to me that people who love history >> would may come to some meetings. Jane
Walls come to some of our meetings. I mean people who are interested in history it doesn't make it a conflict. It makes it sort of in your >> disclosure is is entirely sufficient. >> Yeah. disclosure but not accept not >> disclosure just >> yeah I mean I'm I'm on the board of
donor and that's why this project the tax exemption comes from that organization >> yeah um from the CPA rep standpoint I would say that um when you come to
present and and answer questions um at the next meeting or whatever it is they've rescheduled you for because we're a little bit off schedule um I I think that pretty much all projects who come before us, you know, get asked what do you what
do you need this minute, right? >> To to, >> you know, to keep your project going. We ask a question of urgency. Um, pretty much everybody will say that their project is urgent. not not everybody,
but um think about how you might take that budget and break it into pieces. Um if you can't be fully funded or if areas of it are not considered fundable, um
this is a particularly hard year. I think there's I want to say there's $6 million in requests. I mean, it is a phenomenal amount. I mean some of them are things that would be bonded over time but um there will be uh I think a lot of interest in in trying to figure
out for each project what you know what's the minimum >> that you can work with right now what's absolute necessity for it to happen this year and um if you you know if you could if this >> if if this um particular ask could be
broken into pieces that you could maintain momentum which you've described as one of your issues while doing you know smaller sections at a time. >> And then again um you know that recommendation for talking about um developing macros forms because those
would become part of that um that inventory for the community which is uh one of the charges of this commission. I mean I can argue pretty strongly >> for that that kind of a deliverable. So I'll just point out we haven't come to CPA for two years
>> for funding because we wanted to really be exactly where you say you know at a point where we could this is this is the all we need for the final project and we want to be able to pay Margaret who's you haven't had as much chance as >> you might have to see how extraordinary she is
>> and there's so many meetings where Brian will say something and Margaret will say well actually >> no >> or I'll say I'll say something and Margaret will say, "Well, actually, >> she's very very uh
>> yeah, >> but the I would say the more the more that you can can think about that in terms of of the ask, the better off the more information you give us, the better off you'll be in deliberations where you won't, you know, you won't be there to
ask questions or make your case, >> right? >> We'll be there watching." So, so Robin, so since we have you since we have your your your focus on this for this moment, can I just ask one question about that? >> Yep. >> Um, so actually in our responses to your questions when you when you posed that
question about, you know, what would you do >> right >> without first or whatever, >> right? >> Our answer was we would try to do some of both. >> Yeah. And that wasn't a way to slough it off, but it was because it's really hard to for us at least to think about just
walking away from the the curation or whatever word you want to use, right? >> But at the same time, we are desperate to start getting this material into the public, you know, into hands and that's the other grant. But I think something like that where we would look to see how could we make some kind of meaningful
progress so that at the end of the day it's not still waiting for the end but it's also not ignoring the present. That that's the way I look at it. Does that make any sense? >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. >> Okay, that's great. And we have a lot of other, as I've said, other money to
raise for the indigenous park, the prehistoric, and the conservation. Although it won't be anywhere near the scale of this, I hope. >> No, no, >> we have we have some other time we can tell you what our plans are for that. Um, but this is the one area where we're
doing really original work. And the you know, this Jim Smith did a lot and those boxes are sitting there. His widow said to me that she's taken her grandchildren to the special collections to look at the boxes, not to open them up, but just to look at these many, many, many, many
boxes of historical information so they can realize how great their grandfather was. Uh so she's of course you know 89 and thriving very excited that we're going to take this material that he laboriously developed and among other there are other
historians as well. >> Yeah >> that to turn it into something that people will have access to from their from their studies. They'll be able to go click click and >> Yep. >> And kids will be able to I used to teach US history at Ammerst High. Everybody
had to write a re original research paper and I got so many papers about the hat factory. Um I can't >> Yeah. Well, I really hope that the teachers will get some interesting papers about the cotton industry in
North Ammerst or the the sawmills. You know, the first mills were all about agriculture. They were grist mills and sawmills. >> It's very interesting. >> Margaret, were you gonna say something? No. Okay. >> I thought you started to say something.
>> This is wonderful. Oh, go ahead. >> Not coming through on my phone. I was nodding because you were talking about the early mills being grist mills and sawmills, but I'm having difficulty following the conversation. Yeah, >> to be honest. So, I I'll keep trying. >> Okay. So, um you're frozen again.
Everybody's frozen. >> Close your hair. >> Hi, everybody. >> I just want to ask Walker while you guys are here. Um what is do you have any information from the town in terms of um the products that have been defined
so far and and eligibility? Is it just is is it the fact that it's before us um an indication that the town does not see an issue? >> I'm I mean I don't to work directly with C CPA committee. It's Nate who does that
and I haven't been doing it prior to this year. So I don't know if I think Nate and Dave might review the projects. Okay. >> Sort of ahead of time and see what they think is eligible and not but I haven't been part of that process. >> Okay. All right. >> We did have a conversation with Dave and
he did not warn us off if that >> means anything. >> And we're basically looking for a third year of the same kind of funding that we've gotten twice. So >> Yep. Yep. >> All right. Well, listen. Thank you. >> Clarifying that dollar amount would be useful, you know.
>> Yes, we'll do that. >> Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. Um really a pleasure. Um and um I particularly like the little burning building. >> I know. I love that. >> It really is such a big part of uh the
history of the built environment is fire, >> right? >> And nonetheless, they couldn't get a fire station up there for 1914. So, um, thank you and I'll, uh, I'll see some of you at the CPA committee and appreciate your time.
>> Thanks very much everybody. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you all for see. >> Thank you. >> Bye. >> I just pushed leave, right? Yep. >> Robin. >> Yeah. Um the the macros maps for North
Ammerst and for the Mil River project area are quite old. They're from the 80s and so they >> Yeah. Yeah. What is documented? Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, I would advocate for them to be up updated with the kind of >> Oh, absolutely. I mean,
>> yeah. I mean, we can discuss that here. I mean, I don't know how folks feel here about making uh I mean, I would like to make it a requirement of the funding because it's the most direct
um product that uh that serves the mission of this commission, which is to um man help to to update and expand the community's inventory. And that is the official record. Um, so that's why I was
uh uh advocating for them to pull a list together of the resources that are still existing. Um, then you can make a real argument. Those forms, they take time, you know, um, and you could, you know, really make an argument and spell out um, a detailed cost for that piece. So,
does that seem >> um, I think I'm I'm I would love for you guys just to tell me briefly now what you want me to represent. I mean, I have my own opinions on what you want as a commission um to represent. I mean, it seems like we're all really strongly in
favor of this project um where the funding is appropriate within the CPA. That'd be an accurate statement. >> Yes, it would. Yes. >> Okay. All right. I'm getting nods. Got a nod from you, Joel? Yeah. Okay.
Okay. All right. Good. Good. Any other questions, comments, thoughts? No. Okay. Um, so the next item on our agenda is the local historic district commission preliminary
study report for East Ammerst local historic district. Um, I'm hoping folks got a chance to review that. I was talking to Walker. I mean, this is, you know, the purpose of the report being supplied to us is for us to be able to make comment.
Um and um my only comment or question um because I'm not familiar enough at this point is uh what the impact is on um non-historic buildings within a local historic district. Do they still have to
um meet uh the standard for um certificate of appropriateness? That that wasn't something that um was clear to me. So, every building in the district is subject to review, but the standard is
different for non-historic buildings. They're not expected to become more historic or to match the historic value of the buildings around them. Um, but the idea is to prevent alterations that would negatively impact the historic setting or the buildings
around them. So basically what that boils down to is buildings are generally expected to remain basically the same as they are now. Um but there's leeway for presenting more modern additions or improvements on some of the less historic buildings if they're considered
attractive. It's like a design review process in some ways. >> Okay. Um other commissioner's thoughts. Um yes, I um I was just curious to know when the um when the presentation was
done and Chris made um his well when he made his presentation um and looking at the report um afterwards whether there could be a way to acknowledge um women's role in marriages. um the the
documentation is obviously slanted um but I was curious to know of um women's maiden names or um their contribution to the history of the East Ammerst Village
Center and I'm just um that's that was really my only um thought at this point. >> Okay. Yeah, I can definitely pass that along. >> Yeah. um adding uh adding wives names if
they're um if they're resident at the time of um the construction of a house is of a newer um um mechanism to bring women in. So instead of you know the John Adams house, it's
the John and Sarah Adams house um you know sort of it being it being the home of two people, not just one. So, that's one piece. Yeah. Um, other thoughts or questions? Joel and George, what did you think of the
report? This is kind of new to you. >> It was a great report and it's very important. There are a lot of old and nice houses that need to be preserved and taken care of. Yeah, it's nice. It's good. >> It's one of the Go ahead, George. I just
was saying yeah the the whole idea is that making it a historic district then there's some kind of control about you know the overall view behind it you know you can't you can't build a giant yellow house or something like that you
know at least without talking to somebody about it. Yeah. And it it moves um demolition delay from um you know from or it moves demolition from a delay uh which expires
uh and and you know a deition demolition can always go forward um even if a delay is imposed. Um whereas within a local historic district it's one of the strongest ways to protect um historic resources from demolition or or
significant alteration. in that way. So, >> I think that kind of feeds back into the house we looked at, you know, that's no longer there last or two weeks ago, three weeks ago that, you know, if it was in a historic district, we could have maybe
enforced some of the things we were talking about when we were on site. >> Right. Right. Or it would fall under the other commission. Yeah, that would be um so so I think >> I know we had um we had a discussion about I think a
detached garage and a local historic district where um both both commissions I think weigh in, but the local historic district has the stronger um stronger enforcement potential. >> Yeah. Well, you know, at least somebody does. >> Yes. Yeah. No, it's good. It's good.
It's a good tool. >> Okay. All right. Um, those are our comments. Um, next up is mid-century modern survey updates. Robin and Hedi. Robin and Hedi
do not have updates at this time. Nope. We apologize. >> Sorry, I just put it on there just to keep it on on our should and I have hardly even seen each other in the last month. I don't think we have seen each other in the last month. So,
um, uh, next agenda item is the barn preservation funds updates. Do you have updates for us, Walker? >> Sort of. That's another one I kind of put on because, um, I didn't want it to just fall by the wayside. We had a bunch of applications, but only one person has
so far followed through and actually requested funds. >> Um, some of the people I contacted never got back to me. Some of them said they were interested, but hadn't haven't got back to me since then. So, um, and I don't want to like lose out on the money
or have the program not be used. Um, so I guess if any of you have any thoughts on maybe marketing it a little more, talking to more people or um, how we could make sure that
>> we have one we have one applicant uh, who has requested funds. >> We have one applicant who got reimbursed. Yeah, we got a bunch >> who was reimbured. Yeah, we got I think seven people applied and one person applied for reimbursement after the fact. They had actually already done the
work by the time they applied. They were really into it. >> Oh, okay. Great. >> And then I had one applicant who specifically wanted actual funds to actually do work on the barn, which >> Oh, okay. >> She couldn't use that this program. >> That's what I told her, too. But it
really was a very small >> a very small project. Um, and it wasn't really preservation. I don't know if it would have the effort. >> Okay. All right. Um, well, if we have one applicant that has been reimbursed,
is there a way to publicize that as a as a way of letting people know? Maybe that might be >> taking a a leaf out of Brian Harvey's book. I think we could do a history bites talk and maybe bring that person
who was a successful applicant for the barn program to the meeting. and Walker, if you could join us um and whether hopefully the uh Amos Historical Society would be willing to um give us a um a
platform to to explain the barn project more widely um because I think it has been mentioned, but it's it needs to get out there more. Um yeah, I mean I can reach out to them and see if they're interested in participating at all. Okay.
Is there um Well, I mean, I don't know if this is too direct, but it was this something that could be written up. >> Yeah, I mean I I think it I mean I I could write it up um for the indie or for the um Amos Current. Um I think
they'd both be interested in um publishing a piece about the project. Um and you know, that's it behooves us to do that. So, I think given that we aren't seeing a lot of follow through and we know there's a lot of need um and
we also know that there are people who are doing work anyway. Um, a good example would be the people who own the Black Walnut Inn in North Ammerst where they taken care of their barn and they've actually lit the lantern which is a beautiful site at night and they've
done a lot of repairs and repainting to that structure very project. Uh, but you know they they weren't um they just wanted to obviously get started when the the new owners arrived there rather than
just have survey work done. So, I think just getting the word out would be would be really helpful at this at this stage. >> Yep. >> Um, yeah. Did we I'm trying to remember. Did we do some sort of mailing or
direct? >> We didirect. >> Yeah, we sent postcards to everybody. >> Oh, that's right. Yep. I remember. >> We had on a list. >> Hie, can you send me the information about that meeting? like what times or >> you mean the history bites thing? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah, sure. >> Thank you. >> I could potentially make a like a story map for it like I did with the historic district um to if especially if you wrote something up to link to it so people could
follow. >> That's a lovely idea. I love that map. That was great. Yeah. >> Great. Um, okay. That's that item. Um, we've come to public comment. I see we have one
attendee in the audience. If there's anyone in the public who would like to make a comment at this time, they should raise their hand and they will be recognized. I'll just give a minute here. Okay, since I'm not seeing any hands raised, um we are going to um move on
with no public comment. And our last um agenda item is unanticipated items. I know Hetti, you had brought up um South Ammerst project. I don't know if that's something that um that you want to just give a brief overview of or we want to
um add it to the agenda of the next meeting. I think it'd be great to add to the December meeting um an opportunity to talk about the proposals that are being discussed by the town for the um
South Ammeris school building um for housing. Um so that's that would be a really great item on the agenda. Great. >> We'll add it to our next uh our next meeting. So that um brings us to
scheduling our next meeting. Um and it is the 24th of November already. Um how does So we have two members who are missing but um we could float at least
um the 15th here which would be uh 3 weeks from now. Um, >> yeah, far enough before the holiday. >> Yeah, >> we do have a a demo application that's
going to need to be reviewed at that meeting as well. >> Oh, okay. Okay. All right, Joel. >> 7 o'clock. >> Yeah, 7 o'clock. Okay, George, does that work for you? Okay, >> um, yes. It's a little bit tight. I have
another meeting directly before it, but yeah, can make it work. Okay. All right. Um, so we will, um, put that on our calendars. Walker, do you want to just send a email out to, uh, Kenzie and Pat to see if they're
available that date? >> Yeah, >> we have the four of us, so we have a >> to meet that day anyway to get the hearing. >> Oh, well, there you go. >> But I'll I'll email them anyway and just >> Okay. Yeah. And then just send a calendar invite for the meeting. That's really useful. >> Yeah.
>> Appreciate that. Okay, great. >> Can we Can we adjourn? Can I make a motion that we adjourn? >> I don't even think we need a motion. >> Okay, good. >> Thanks everybody. This was fun. Okay, we'll see you next month, Eddie. Thanks everybody. Bye. Night. All right, take
care.