And you can go ahead Kathy. >> Good afternoon everyone. Today is the March 11th meeting of JCPC. And seeing that we have a quorum, I will one two three four. Yeah, we definitely have a quorum. I'm calling the meeting
to order at 4:01 p.m. My first order of business is to make sure all the committee members can hear and we can hear you. So, I'll just read out your names and let me know if all is well. Lee, >> yes. >> Eugene, >> all is well.
>> Jill, >> yes. Y >> and Andy Churchill, there is a very compliant committee member. And I'm turning it over to Sean. I think people know the order that we're doing. Bridget Hines said she couldn't join us until 5:00
today. And Deb sent a note today that she might not be able to join at all because of um multiple things going on in her world with the schools and her family. So uh one person will be joining late and I think we're otherwise ready
to go. Sean. >> Yeah, thank you. So um so the plan is that we will start with uh recreation and Ray Harp is here who is the director of Ammeris recreation. I'm going to try to bring him in now.
And then uh he just has one project request. Then we're going to shift to um town information technology and our director Sean Hannon is here and he'll speak to um there were two requests I think after talking you know some of the conversation with this group this
committee earlier and looking at those requests. We um are likely going to retract one of them and we can explain what that is and and why. Um, and then hopefully it'll be almost 5:00, but if it's not, uh, we will look at some of the questions that have been submitted
and just review what those questions are. I have some answers to some of them, but a lot of them are I'll I'll have before next next week. Um, and then at 5:00 we will start promptly with the schools. Um, uh, Shannon Bernachia, the director of finance for the schools is here and Michael Michael Gallow
Okonnell, who's uh, director of facilities is here as well. And then Shannon can let us know Jerry will be here, uh, director of IT. So, I I'm just double checking. Lee, I think you're taking minutes today, correct? Okay. So, I'll just confirm and I'll send you a couple models. We have several at this point.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. I think we're we're I think Ry, you're on. >> Hello, everybody. And thank you. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, so I think that ours is pretty straightforward this year. Uh, thank you
for having me. Um, we're requesting a 40,000 we're requesting $40,000 for the purchase of a used fairway mower. Um, this machine would be that's for Cherry Hill. This machine would be replacing a mower that was purchased new in 2012
with with an estimated lifespan of 10 years back then. It currently has 3,500 hours on it, which is the equivalent of 211,000 miles. Uh this replaces a request in the queue from last year of 83,000 which was for a
brand new machine. Um uh current estimates on a new machine now run close to $100,000. Um the request for this machine has already been pushed out several times, including most recently last year when the irrigation controller uh prices that
we had took uh immediate priority over that mower. Um I would not as the director feel comfortable pushing the request out again beyond this year. Um u the question I mean I think that in terms of what we're asking here it could
be uh our conversation might uh end up moving towards used or or new. Um we we did adjust to that new to the I mean sorry we did adjust to the used mower uh uh over the course of the last year
because that was the direction that we thought that the that JCPC was asking us to go for some of our other mowers. We do know right now that um that that um you know the the the higher price for the new mower does give us does give us
u potentially 10 to 15 years on a new mower as opposed to anywhere from 5 to 8 years on a on a used. Um but we did submit for 40,000 in the capital request for a used mower. Uh questions from the committee.
Um Andy, >> hi Ray. Um I uh I I guess I'm just curious about if you're saying you could go either way with the new or used, but if if we approve 40,000, you're you're
going to be pretty much going in the direction of used, right? >> Our Yes. Our our preference would certainly be on a new machine. We had it in our queue for a new machine. It was it certainly has escalated in value since our quote. Um uh we we were asked
last year to look for our purchase uh last year or the year before we adjusted to a used uh to a used vehicle because there was some concern that we could probably find uh we could probably find a a value that allowed us to spread
capital money in other places. Um, we would certainly prefer a a new one. I wouldn't have brought it up if it wasn't I I I sort of feel like like like it should be mentioned what that cost would be for the for the new machine.
Um, >> I see >> Jean follow and then Jill. Yeah. >> Or Andy, if you want to follow up. Sure. Yeah. Just just to follow up, there is a committee now that's that's looking at cherry at the future of Cherry Hill. And
um >> is there a chance that we wouldn't potentially need a mower for 10 years? I I don't I don't know how to how to frame that question, but >> I I think I know the question. Um the the committee is committee is looking for ways to provide the to to you know
to evaluate all the options at Cherry Hill. that Cherry Hill Working Group is looking for an opportunity. If we were to go and and sell golf operations to somebody else or if we were if we were looking to to uh you know change our
budget demands for the for the course, ask for more from the from our operating budget, asking to put more in. It's still you know our in order to operate the course as it is right now. This is an important long-term investment and
and it and it would then be part of our evaluation of the course as it as as we look to move in any direction that we we went in. We know that to in order to operate the course, we need to have the the vehicle. We need it's it's not a
small piece of equipment for the for the course. We know that we need to have that vehicle in order to operate uh going longterm, going short-term or long term. We need to we need to find a way to get that vehicle taken care of. Um but but it doesn't it doesn't hurt our
ability long term to move in any direction that that working group moves us. >> Uh Jean and then Jill. >> Hi Ray. Just a a a question on the used mower. How many miles would the used mower have and and is it just a straight
used mower? Has it been re are they typically reconditioned? Can you expect to get, >> you know, the 3500 hours out of a used one total? >> This is only the second time that we've looked at used mowers. I don't know how thorough the process is there and how
the how the bidding process is there. I believe that, you know, we know that we have a relationship with the with the Toro dealer that we have here and that's where we that we that was that's usually the first place we go to for quotes. Um, it would depend on availability, I'm
sure, like like the used car market. I mean, it would it would depend on the availability and how many miles are on it and how much I how much lifetime it's it's expected. We wouldn't want to throw $40,000 in a bad in a bad direction, of course. And we would uh myself and my
superintendent would be looking to try and find a vehicle that that does provide us with with what we're looking for. But um uh it's uh I think it's dependent on what the market has there
>> and and are you guys confident that you can get a a more of a quality that you're looking for or is that a >> I would not say confident. I would say that there's stuff avail there there are mowers available at for and that's the reason why I want to bring back in the the the new cost but I I think that if
if we were you know to say we're confident that these this equipment is not is not something that everybody's looking to give up. It's not something that there's there's not a huge market out there for for used golf equipment.
um um we would shop for the best value, but I I don't know how many how many vehicles are available. This the quote was gathered from uh my superintendent. Uh it was it was gathered from my superintendent from uh uh you know Toro
and other dealers that that potentially would have equipment available. The things that they were looking at when we originally went to them might be their their market might have changed also for all I know. We did look recently at what that new market is and it's closer to 100,000 it is to the 90,000 that we were
quoted on uh a couple months ago. >> Cool. Thank you, >> Jill. >> My question was answered. Thanks. >> Okay. Um I I I just Andy, I'll just give you a little bit more on the working group. So far, if you either attend
their meetings or read them up, they're the they're they're actively working on keeping the course alive. So, they're talking about how potentially to improve it to improve the revenue stream on it. Um, is it a revolving fund, but it's uh
it's protected land, so it has to be used for recreation. So, it's not potentially buildable like for housing. Um, and uh I don't know the selection of the people who are on that golf committee. I know Sean you were there one day on it but the these these are
people who are actively thinking of it as the course itself for golf is a resource but it's also a resource for the town for sledding for track for field which because it's mowed so so I I think 5 to 8 years or 10 years it's
going to still be with us you know in terms of the longevity I I just wanted to since I have been following it >> I I thank you Kathy for that I I mean I I don't want to speak for the members of the committee, but I would concur. I I
think that Kathy's spot on on what the what the energy and the sentiment is of that working group. >> There's there's more to cover with the working group, but the energy has been in looking to try and make it looking looking to try and make it a an amorous
asset to maintain it as an amorous asset. And just just for others, one of the things that has been discussed is it is actually making money. Not a lot of money, but revenues are at or above expenses. It's not the money loser it was when we bought it. Um, those of us
who remember when we bought it. Um and so Lee Edwards, >> yeah, this will this will reflect my uh complete ignorance of this matter, but is the technology for golf course mowers
shifting and improving, becoming more environmentally friendly in the way that automobiles are. >> Uh I can say a tenative no. I'm not I don't I'm not incredibly well-versed in all the different options that are
there. We have been looking for uh environmentally friendly options and they they don't exist on the used market for us and the and you certainly can try to adjust numbers to see what is
available for for new um there some of our if we're looking at our long-term Q our five-year projected queue for capital we know that we we have two green initiatives that are that pretty big for us in the next five
years. One of them being a a a uh conversion of our cart fleet over to electric. Um which saves us a little bit in terms of our in terms of our our uh uh it saves us a little bit in terms of our
footprint there. But um but then we also are introducing we introduced last year a conversion of our pump house over from diesel which is a bigger imprint. I think that's a bigger footprint for us to try and manage. Uh yes our our mach
we know that our machinery is is we we guzzle a little bit. Um and we've made a bunch of attempts to try and address that in the last couple years. Thanks. >> I'm not I'm not seeing any other questions. So, thank you, Ray. Thank you
very much. >> Thank you. Thank you, everybody. >> Sean Sean Hannon, >> hello. >> You're up. >> You're up. >> All right. Good afternoon. Um, so just you want me
to just run through the um capital requests? So, um the first one is um the bigger of the two is request for $200,000 and that's um our IT infrastructure. It's we ask for
infrastructure money every year. Um it fluctuates a little bit, but this is um our scheduled replacement of essentially all the IT equipment you see. So, um, laptops,
um, PCs, those are those are the big the big items are the items we buy most of. Um, and then it's also, um, in this category, we have our servers, our wireless access points. And one of the reasons this year is a little higher
than other years is, um, we're about 10 years into a lot of our network switches. Our network switches are what um what connect all our uh buildings together and then within the buildings connect all the um all the network
devices, phones, PCs, um building controls, um that kind of stuff. And that's this this starts us down the path of replacing replacing a lot of the the switches that are 10 years old. Um, so I
don't know if we want to >> talk about both of them or if we want >> Why don't you Why don't you do both of them and then we'll take questions on Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, the other one's not in the packet and that's um that's our um
we use Crowd Strike, but it's our um EDR enterprise um trying to blank on the um response and it's um that's our it's a fancy version of anti virus um
and more and so it's what protects all our devices. Um we have about 450 devices on it that um run CrowdStrike that um it it's software and a service
that looks out for potential threats. Um and then it also protects our protects identities. So on our our Microsoft um 365 our hosted email the login from that it protects us on that. It looks for
anomalies and and who logged in when and where um and flags things and alerts us to things. And it also provides us with our um incident response plan that's required for insurance as well as um it's a question we get asked by the
auditors, we get asked by the state. Um and it it gives us something that if we were under some sort of cyber threat um it would help us. it it protects us from that, but then it also
um helps us recover from that if it gets further than it should. >> And did you just say it's not on the list for this year, but it was on your list or >> Sean, can I speak to that real quick? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um so Kathy, sorry, I had to step away for a second. Um so that's the one that was on the list. So if you look
in the plan, I believe it's it's on the plan. Um in talking with Sean, so that one was there. We didn't have I didn't have a project write up at this when I had to put together the preliminary plan. um but it was on there last year. Um so I'm talking with Sean about what it is and it as he mentioned it is vitally important but it's really more
of a recurring operating cost for software. It's not a new software. It's not um something new. So um you know our what we're what we're proposing is that we will pull that off. Um it is important and Paul and I and and Sean are going to have to figure out how we
build that into the operating budget because it's it's something that we need. But um in understanding it more, it it shouldn't be on the capital plan. >> Okay. >> So that so that will give you $75,000 more available than what was showing there currently.
>> You anticipated the question. So that and that's and you'll figure out somehow that that 75 is now in an operating budget. So it still >> Yeah. So when we're building our operating budgets this year, that's um we have to look at how we it's a large number, but again it's something we have to do. So, we've got to figure out where
that will fit in. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the one thing I would add, part of the reason there was some confusion is it would several years ago um prior to when Sean left and came back um in several years
ago when we were working on the capital plans, we put something in there as a placeholder not knowing what we would need and then it worked out that this was a year it came due um and we needed that renewal. But obviously it it makes more sense in the operating budget because it will be something we're going
to unfortunately have to ask for every going to have to be in every year's operating budget unfortunately. >> So question. So so I I guess so I understand we actually have one proposal the 200,000 and the other is moved onto
an operating budget that will be more invisible to us when we see it. It will just be it. And you will explain it in May. >> Yeah. Yeah. Happy answer the same question then. >> Okay. So, questions. Andy,
>> you're muted. >> I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right thing, but in the capital plan, the draft capital plan for FY27, there's also $100,000 for fuel tracking software. Is
that in somebody else's? >> Yeah, that was the one Guilford spoke to. Um because because it's software, we it lives in the IT section, but that was the project that Guilford spoke to when we came. >> So, so I have a question that um is a
crossover to schools, Sean, so you're not necessarily going to be able to answer it. >> Shannon's here too, so >> Okay, Shannon's here. So the question that has come up a few times is there any efficiency to be gained if at least at the elementary school level if if it
was across the town for our schools and for the town um as opposed to you've got an IT department the schools have an IT department so I don't know um Sean I don't know you know and I guess are there any efficiencies either in the
way we buy equipment um or you know the software we're buying licensing so and is are there's any efficiencies in staffing so that it's a question that's come up and I've thought of it more as
maybe uh when we're buying but I know the schools also buy when they're replacing laptop our our elementary they they buy them in bulk so you know we do purchasing so that's my Jill did I capture that as a generic question of you know Northampton kind of shares
those services be and they don't have a regional school so they have a different way of doing it. So it was a question on the capital side, licensing, fiber, optics and various. So and I don't know whether this is the right place to be
asking that question either. >> Sea I can say quickly I think and then I'll turn over to you. I think the regional school piece is probably the biggest difference between us and Northampton because the regional schools again is a legally separate entity um which Sean doesn't have any
responsibility for. Um, but Sean, pretending that the regional schools didn't exist, what do you think in terms of know knowing what, you know, you know, the staffing and kind of the scope of uh responsibility for Jerry and what he does? >> Yeah, I mean, I I think it's it's certainly something that could be looked
at some more. If you if you look across the state, it's going to meeting with other IT directors. It's it's roughly 5050 whether um it's city or town separate from schools or whether it's combined.
There are a number of things that we are kind of either combined or collaborate pretty heavily on already. So one of them one of them is the fiber. Um so that the town installed and and maintains the fiber for all the schools.
So there's no there's no redundancy or overlap there. Um on the software side, the financial system munice is shared between the town and the schools. Um and then we do we
town and and the schools work um pretty collaboratively on on different things. When we we need something, they need something. >> Real quick that the munus one is a huge cost savings um yeah to to the system. If I think we pay what about 120,000 for
the software for all of us >> and if we if particularly the region the region had to buy their own >> and they bought that software they would probably be paying close to that on their own. Um maybe a little bit less there probably some modules that that the region wouldn't need. Um but and I
only say that because in Holio we had a complicated system where the schools had its own munice and the town had its own munice and we each paid separately for our own munices and one of the things I want to do was bring them all together into one system. Um and it uh it's a good thing that we're all on one system and have one uh kind of one package
together. >> Yeah. So we do we do share there. I think there, you know, it's worth looking at what else we could share on the purchasing. I don't know how much we would see um discount. We most of what
we buy we buy off the state contract and so we're already kind of taking advantage of of whatever pricing the state has negotiated at that state at that scale. So, um I don't know I don't know how much we would save there, but um
>> certainly certainly could look at um >> I think the biggest benefit Kathy would be some resiliency too. I like knowing the staffing on both sides like they are stretched thin on both sides and um and the software is very like the software that they become experts in is very
unique. So like the softwares that the school use, town staff are not, you know, don't have the bandwidth to learn those softwares and the same kind of vice versa. Um but if it was one big group, there might be some um improved resiliency where there could be some maybe cross trainining overlap if
somebody leaves. Um so there probably there definitely could be some benefits. It might be something to study down the road. um but you know some you know in the future but um I don't think like from a body perspective I think staffing wise both
are very uh very busy all the time. >> Okay, thank you. I mean that was an extremely thorough answer. So thank you very much. Um >> we've got a half hour to to get through Kathy before we're going to answer these questions as thoroughly as possible. >> I I have one more on software leave
before I forget it if you don't mind. Last year we authorized the purchase of some software that was specifically for finance to do things differently than whatever you can do with Munice. >> Yeah. >> And it was for the
no longer with us finance director. Is that money ever going to be spent or could that be brought back in? So I think it was in the Sean, you'll know it was like in the 150. >> Yeah. No, it's it was 100,000. Um, so my expectation for those funds, Kathy, is
we we talked about on finance committee having a conversation about the budget and how the budget looks and the process for the budget and that soft that money, my understanding is it was basically to buy expensive budget software um, and to
to streamline the creation of the budget process. So, I've sat through a lot of those presentations over the years and I've never been a huge fan of spending money on those types of budget softwares, but I kind of want to wait and hear what the conversation is at finance committee about things want to
see in the budget in the future, the way it's developed. Um cuz maybe maybe that will indicate that maybe we should explore it more or or not. Um, but I am not in a rush to spend that money. And if the commit the conversation with the committee is that it's not a good
decision to do that or it's not a pressing need, then I would turn it back um probably the next round of JCPC. >> Okay. Thank you, Lee. >> Once again, total ignorance. What is Munis stand for? Municipal United.
>> It doesn't stand for I mean it just that's the name of the software is MUN, but it's it's municipal finance software. >> Thank It is in all caps, so you would think that it would stand for something, but um >> and it Yeah. >> And Lee, it's what they use for billing and it's what billing and for reporting.
So when we're getting a quarterly report, when when you're the procurement, you know, it gets some this is DPW versus this is someone else. Um I just >> it's everything. It's payroll, it's
accounts payable, it's accounting, budget, um billing as as you mentioned Kathy for water, sewer and all property taxes, everything all pretty much everything goes through Munice. Um so it's pretty vital.
No. And and when you pay your taxes, if you pay them online, it it's munus, you know, I mean, it's it's collecting that information from you, >> but >> and we have been on it 30 years this year, in case anybody's wondering. >> So, and different departments, I think
DPW has periodically says it can't do some things they would like it to be able to do. Um, not easily anyway. Um Andy, you're muted. >> Yep. Um just wondering, you know, we've been on on munus for 30 years. I assume
switching to another system would be a night, you know, a transition nightmare, but is it still meeting our needs? >> Um I'll speak from my perspective and Sean, if you want to jump on. Um yes, it's not perfect. Uh, but it does the
the core in the core functions really well. There's not a lot of competitors honestly for municipal accounting softwares in Massachusetts for large communities. Um, I haven't really heard of any large communities on a different software. If you're smaller, there's
some alternatives, but for software our size or a city our size, um, I haven't heard of a lot of real viable alternatives. That being said, there are a couple companies that are starting to get into the business. Um, open gov is one that we use a lot for permitting and
it's been great. It's been super it's been probably the in terms of efficiency gains from adding a software. You know, we've talked about consultants and sometimes you don't get what you want from consultants. That's true with software sometime, but OpenG, I would say, is like the best investment we've made. It's helped multiple different
departments. It streamlines paperwork and and tracks everything. And so, they're actually getting into creating like an ERP system. And so, we might explore to see what it looks like. Um but there aren't a lot of alternatives unfortunately um really to and it's a huge undertaking right to to ever
transition from this system to something else and it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and I only know that because and again in Holio when we were looking at merging the two just the price to merge the two and it's the same system was going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars to to get the
information out of one and put it in the other one. So >> yeah, and then then the ongoing costs um would would get pretty high. We we're we technically own Munis that we um are running. We do pay for support and it
it's not expensive. It is $120,000 a year. But if you if you were to compare that to a lot of other um communities and what we pay it, it's 120,000 shouldn't sound like a bargain, but but it it really is.
>> Yeah, because it's supporting again three, you know, three districts um three entities um pretty um significantly. >> I think that's it. Um so I Sean, we don't need to keep you more. Okay.
You're als you're welcome to stay and since so I I see that both Mike and Shannon have and thank you by the way. Thank you. I shouldn't >> thank you very much and thank you for what you do to make our lives easy. Um so Sean, you suggested we could turn to
some questions um that we've submitted to you. One of them I know I submitted on the uh three years old or older and not closed down. uh there there was a long list for schools. So maybe if we started with
>> that before Bridget can join us just getting some sense and I added them up. I don't know whether people looked at that but that was more than three years old. And when I added up the schools it added up to over a million is the only reason I'm asking about it. >> Not on any one line item, lots of
pieces. >> Yeah. I don't I don't have updates. I was planning on for next week. I don't have updates on the town side. I know Shannon and I spoke and um one of her projects that um she's going to speak to uh in a
little while I believe kind of looks at that too. It's looking at how to you know the fac the needs of the facilities going forward, the funds that we have available and what additional funds are needed. Um so Shannon can speak more to that piece of it. Um so yeah, we can we can do that. Now I also have some other questions. There were um some unrelated
questions to schools that I've got responses to. So I can go through whatever you want to do. >> So why don't we do the unrelated because I would would not want to start. Bridget really asked that we Shannon and Mike and Jerry if you don't mind. Bridget Hines had asked that we hold school discussion till she got here and she
said she'd be here at 5. So why don't we do the others that you have >> either responses to or or not. >> All right. So I'll just there's a wide array. So some folks have been sending me questions. I'm putting them all in a word document and then I've sent them
all out to department heads. And so these are the ones that I have responses to so far and the rest I should have responses to um next week. So hopefully you see a pie chart on your screen. Um one of the questions that we received
early on was what would the pie chart look like if it included debt payments? So the the pie chart that's in the capital improvement program is really just based on the the projects being requested for FY27. It doesn't factor in debt payments for projects that have
been approved for borrowing in the past. So there was a request to what would that pie chart look like if we were to factor in sort of more of like a cash flow look at this pie chart like the c the dollars going out the door in FY27 and what departments they relate to. So this is the updated chart. the schools
as we would expect is a bigger slice because now it includes the debt exclusion um for the elementary school which is a you know relatively large payment. Um public works is still one of the bigger um bigger groups. Um and this says public works. I shouldn't say tree
and grounds. That must just be a label I got to fix. Um it's just all of public works. Uh library again a bigger piece now because it's including the anticipated debt for the Jones library for FY27. So that becomes a bigger slice as well.
And I'll just keep going. Raise your hand if you have any questions or follows. >> Andy, and I don't know whether people remember, but the original one because chapter 90 was in it had half of it being around half being DPW, you know.
>> Yeah. I guess I was just I mean, if you put chap I guess I'm trying to figure out >> this does include chapter 90 now. Yeah, this includes everything as well. It's not just the uh >> So, think of the other one like a pie
chart of budgeted projects for FY27. And this is really a pie chart of cash out the door anticipated for FY27 based on both the projects that are budgeted but also any debt um >> and any grants that we're getting like chapter 90 or whatever. >> Yeah. What's not included is if we
propose a project to be funded through a borrowing next year and really the only one is Crocker Farm. So like Crocker Farm is not in here the playground because we wouldn't anticipate having the expenses for that project until a future year. Um so like the 175,000 for the Crocker Farm playground isn't in
this chart yet in this this kind of snapshot view of it >> and but everything else is in there. >> Are roads included in the public works then if Chapter 90 funding for roads would be in that category? >> Yep. Absolutely. Yep. >> Thank you.
>> All right. All right, the next request was to add North Ammerst Library to the maintenance chart. So, that'll be done. So, we'll give you an updated um uh capital improvement program maybe for next week since we've made some tweaks to it. Um and that'll have uh North Ammerst Library in there. We moved
chapter 90 under state aid in the summary chart before it was lumped in under other, I believe. So, now you'll see that broken out separately. Um I'm going to stop sharing so I can share a different document. The next request was for trends in uh there were two different requests. One's for trends
in kind of fuel usage and one on maintenance usage. And so I pulled those numbers and I'll attach this to the you'll get these answers um and sheets next week. Can you see the number the chart on the
screen? So, what this is is a print out from our uh munis counting system that we just spoke about. And we have a what we call an object for vehicle maintenance. And we have a couple different objects uh for diesel fuel and gasoline for vehicles. Um and so that
allows us to kind of get down to the questions that you've asked. >> So, uh the lo the account number, that's the account number that we pay from the location, so you have a sense of what department it is. And these are all vehicle maintenance expenses here. And so what we see is that from FY23 through
FY25, vehicle maintenance has sort of steadily risen. Sort of what we've expected. Some of that might be just inflation and the cost going up, but some of it's probably our vehicles having more wear and tear, aging, um, and what we've spent so far in FY26, which FY26 seems like we're probably on
pace to be a little bit less than FY25 or around that that mark. That's a really interesting chart. >> Yeah. No, it's interesting to see where it is. Like fire, as you'd expect, is a big one, right? They have the largest trucks, um, ambulances and and things
like that that require pretty expensive repairs and we don't have much choice. Um, and really we try some departments, mostly public works, you'll see lower costs here because we have a maintenance department and we have mechanics. So, a lot of the public works vehicles can be
fixed internally or the smaller expenses can be fixed internally. Um, but like on fire and ambulances, they can't really work on those vehicles because they're a little bit more specialized. >> And these are all built into operating budgets, correct? >> Yeah. Either operating budgets, they're
all operating budgets, and this includes the schools, too. At the bottom, you'll see that the just the elementary schools only. Um, and enterprise funds as well. So if it's a vehicle that belongs to wastewater you'll or solid waste or so on you'll see that there.
>> Similarly there was a request to look at fuel and so with two fuel lines we have a gasoline fuel and a diesel fuel. Um, and so you'll see sort of a similar breakdown. And it does kind of reinforce what we were hoping would be the case
and thought would be the case, which is fuel costs have been sort of trending down, which makes sense uh, with adding all these hybrids and and more fuel efficient technology into our vehicles. And so you'll see we've dropped big chunk from FY23 to FY24, then a little
bit, you know, still drop, but a little bit less. Some of that again could be fuel prices, right? that's going to impact this if fuel prices go up or down. So, it's a little more we don't have gallons necessarily. If we buy that software, we might, you know, that software that Guilford presented, we might have better actual gallon consumed
data. Um, but on a just pure cost perspective, we have seen it start to go down. And in particular, if you look at fire and police, which are the two departments where we've done a lot um of investment in more efficient technology, you'll see that's where a lot of the
decrease comes from. If you look at the very bottom, it's a really big difference from 23. >> Yeah, that was >> Yeah, it's $100,000 less. Yeah. Andy, >> see tree and grounds and and you know,
waste water and water. Is that all is there any other separate public works? >> Yeah. So the so the facilities that are the ones that are public works are um equipment maintenance is a public works and that one um a lot of vehicles kind
of are part of that because that's the mechanics. Um so you'll see that uh is a public works. Solid waste is an enterprise fund but overseen by public works. Uh waste water and water again enterprise funds but overseen by public works. And tree and grounds. Yep. Those
are the >> What about like snow plows and things like that? So most of the snow plows would be in the um either tree and grounds or the equipment maintenance um section
>> and because the snow plows are are on a vehicle you know as a you know they're up higher. We only have a few I think which are clear just plows but interesting. Thank you for doing this. Um
>> I don't know how you're going to incorporate this into the larger thing, but uh it's it's a good set of table for us to have maybe just even as appendix if you can keep tracking it over time. >> Yeah, you know, we can and we can run that, you know, that could be maybe a new report or addition. Yeah. To the um
to the maybe that's a more useful chart than what's in there currently or if we want to add it. And you know, one of the questions Bridget raised it last year and we started to raise it again this year on a vehicle replacement policy. You know, like at what point do the repairs on the
vehicle get to be such a high share of the cost of the vehicle it's time to replace it? And these kinds of maintenance numbers per vehicle would would help you track that. I mean, it's it's a >> it's a way of so it's not just a once it's a 100,000 miles, it's no good
anymore, but something more concrete about how what's the condition of the vehicle. Um, >> y >> since many of us are driving cars with a lot more miles on that than that. Yeah. >> All right. I've got one more that I think you'll find interesting. Do you want one more?
>> Sure. So the another request was for road spending from different sources and what we've spent on roads from a bunch of different um or not a bunch but a few different sources. So what you what you'll see on the screen I apologize if
it's small but again you'll get this is uh general fund. So, these are at the top. These are appropriations either through JCPC and the annual capital process or supplemental appropriations like the one the council just did. Um, so that's typically where
these come from. The next section is chapter 90 and then the last section is sidewalks. And what I we do is kind of go through again we have an object uh 586 or 589 that is where we charge road
uh cost too. Sidewalks same buck same object. Um and so we can go in pretty quickly and see how much we actually spent. So this is the actual money out the door in these fiscal years. Um and so it es and flows. You know, sometimes if there's an appropriate an
appropriation for roads in one year, it might be bundled and not, you know, not spent till the following year or it could be bundled and spent the year after that. So that it kind of es and flows a little bit. Um, and this does include um over here on the right, I tried to show like what's left over. Now, what's what's shown here is
remaining might be encumbered. And most of these older projects, when you look at these older ones that are from 2122, they are encumbered. So that means they're on a contract to be spent. So, they're probably going to be spent this spring. Um, but the new one that the council just appropriated last night, I added as well. So, you'll see the 2.7
million that the c not last night, uh, Monday that the council appropriated. So, roughly what will go out the door at some point with the funds we have available in the next, you know, 12 months, I would say, is about 4.9 million. Um,
or again, the timing might vary a little bit. >> And that's off of town money. And then when you go down or you do then >> so that's town um then we have the chapter 90 money and so the thing to remember with chapter 90 is that the way
it works is you know we get an allocation but then we have to submit a project request to the state and they have to approve the project and when they approve it that's when we create the budget. So you'll see these numbers Kathy these are really based on the projects that have been approved and then they get set up with a budget. So,
for example, you won't see the 26 money in here yet. Um, I think we're just submitting that request now. So, there's, you know, what's not shown here that we would see shortly is about 1.4 million, um, from the FY26 money that once that gets an approved project,
that'll get that'll get brought in here as a budget and plan to be spent. So, there's another 1.4 million or so that we would see come in here. And then sidewalks. Uh, I think last year JCPC didn't do any sidewalks. I think you you either shifted that or
took it off. Um, so >> I think I think we had 140, but may but it may not have gotten spin. >> I thought take a look. I when I looked at the cow plan, it looked like it was removed or maybe it was just merged, but I didn't see anything for sidewalks. >> Um, so and then at the bottom here's the
grand total and then I did a 5-year average just so you can see kind of how it's evolving. So, you know, we were in the million-doll range, million pl, you know, million.4 and FY15, uh, dropped down a little bit. We had a little bit of a down period, which is what we saw.
We saw there was a period of time where we where the investment in roads kind of dropped and then around FY1 1819, it started to go back up and it started to climb back up. So, that our sort of average spent per year is now up over 2 million. um which you know we know that
that's the number we're trying to get up and do even more per year but it's we're in a better place now than we were I'd say 10 years ago >> um so can you scroll up a little bit Sean >> yeah just um looking at that when you say there's 4.9
you know almost five million available to be spent in the from the general fund and then you said there's 1.4 for that's coming um from chapter 90. >> Is that right? So So we're talking about six almost $6 and a half million dollars
that we can put into roads this in the coming year. >> Yeah. And again, some of that might be for contracts already in place that'll be done this spring. Um but yeah, we the funds we have available between what was just appropriated and what's left over
on prior allocations is in that ballpark. And and just I want to build on what Andy just said because some of the I've been tracking the chapter 90 monies, the columns you've got for 25
and 24 where 24 is blank. We did get an allocation there, but we it looks like we just haven't spent it yet. Is that it? >> No. Again, so like the the when you see the money go in there, it's based on when the projects get approved. So, um, like the million dollars spent, the allocation wasn't a million dollars, but
sometimes the project that gets approved might be a couple different years worth of allocations. Um, so because none of our allocations were exactly a million million dollars, right? So, it's sometimes they get bundled from multiple years together in the project that gets submitted. >> And so, does that mean in 24 FY24 we
didn't submit any? So it's >> no it doesn't mean we didn't submit any but it didn't get spent until it might not have got spent till 25 or 26. >> Okay. I'm not sure it completely you know so the state the state puts out a chapter 90. It's now they finally
combine them but it's two pieces just so people know. It's it's got a allocation for Ammerst out of generals for chapter 90. Then there's a separate one that's coming out a fair share and that's bumped us up from what used to be 800,000 every year just >> Yeah. So I think what to your question
for whatever reason no money was spent in FY24 from chapter 90. Again I don't know if that's because there was a you know backlog or it got rolled into 25 but again if the what you're looking at and that the allocation sheet that's the funds available and this is more when
did that money actually go out the door um and get paid to contractors >> because that that thank you you answered. So, I guess the question, and you don't need to answer it just for us, but it's um do we have the capacity to move the amount of money we're getting
each year? you know, do we is it a staffing issue on a because I think we go out to bid for this and we're competing with the state and other people for the road contractors, but just, >> you know, is it the money is potentially on the table, but we're not getting it
in and can we go back and get the 24 money that we could have had if we haven't asked for it yet? >> Yeah, you know, we've spent all the money that's um you know, I asked about it today to my staff that were pretty caught up. Um, but yeah, we can go back, you can go back years and use those
funds for part of your projects. The state, you know, if you go if you don't use it after so many years, the state starts to nudge you to to spend it, but we're uh caught up, I believe. >> Andy, >> um, so is there an issue with the the
fiscal year turning over July 1? So, you know, if you start working on the roads in May and June, that's one year. and then the next year starts and it's >> these are all capital funds so they can float across years um it doesn't like
close out or anything like that. So Gil um public works and Guilford they're going to put to start getting ready to bid out now um because they just got the appropriation from the council. So they'll put out a bid that um reflects the money that was just appropriated.
Anything there are any pieces left over from other years they'll incorporate that. And then if there's any projects that have been approved um or that they're planning to go through chapter 90, they could incorporate that as well. So they're working on that bid. They are they've got some worked out, but I think
they're starting to fine-tune that. >> No. and some you know the same way I think I just for some reason I can remember the ones how much we've allocated but last year we got up to 750 and and you look if you look at it we haven't spent it all yet just out of the
town share you know for this year so we don't necessarily so some of what Sean has got is remaining is that we Guilford can package all of that money too you know and or it might already be allocated it's just not spent yet again when he
bids Now there's a spring and a a fall and a spring, right? So a lot of that remaining for the general fund is encumbered already. Um meaning it it'll be queued up this spring. >> Thank you >> a lot for that. So, I had one question um that I didn't
send you Sean, but when I was looking at Jill's minutes, which were excellent for the meeting uh that Andy chaired when Guilford was with us, have we already appropriated the money? He had put on $500,000 for the feasibility or the
thing and I think you said we already had that money. Did we at some point actually appropriated that money? Yes. >> Yeah. So, the money is already appropriated. It's a borrowing authorization. Um, so 1.95 million was appropriated four or five
years ago. Um, I wasn't here for this, but some money was borrowed. About $500,000 was borrowed, I think, in anticipation of the project moving and getting some costs and having costs. It for whatever reason, we didn't have the
costs and then we paid off that borrowing. So, what that means is we've essentially we have $500,000 that we don't have to go out to borrow that's available to be spent on that project. Um, so we have $500,000 available and then there's additional
borrowing authorization for about 1.4 beyond that 500,000. So, my my comments were we have what we need to get started and then I think the next time that project comes back to council, it'll be potentially for the full the full authorization for a project. Um I
>> it won't we won't be seeing a separate feasibility f that that one is somehow in the works already. >> The hope is that the money we have appropriated can get us to the point where we have a cost estimate for schematic you know design cost estimate for the full project and then we would
bring that back um you know the designer and the OPM will do the work up to a certain point and then there'll be a pause where that then gets considered by the council. Um sort of how like the MSBA projects work. we appropriate money for a piece of it. They go out and they do their work. They come they come back
with a a bigger, you know, the full cost estimate for the project and then that comes back to the council. >> Okay. So, that was Jill. I was just going to fix that one because I remembered that we had done this authorization and Guilford seemed to be asking for the money again and it wasn't
that he needed to get the money now to get the project started. You know, he's got the he's got he the the team has the money. Yeah. Andy, >> and just what project are we talking about? >> Yeah. DPW building. >> Okay.
>> No, several way back when when we were still searching for where to put it. um the building we authorized the beginning money that once we made that decision we could move toward design so that we could design a building that it wouldn't
then have to come at the last minute so we and what I remember is we put it on the books but I couldn't remember which books you know so I was going back through JCPCs I just it was really early that we we did that yeah >> and there's money for the fire station
as well so the public works there was a piece for fireworks public works and there was a piece for the fire department for the same type of thing beginning design stages early design stages. >> So that was a question and I I don't I think you you answered all of my
questions except for these um unallocated you know not yet spent down things and we can talk about that next week. So, I think it's it's five minutes of five. So, may maybe we start with I hate to keep Shannon,
Jerry, and and Mike waiting uh in the wings. So, the only other thing I can say while we're filling in the time, I I could al offer see if there's any public and take public comments early if there no public
comment. >> There is no attendees right now, so there won't be any. Can I ask that we we start with possibly with Jerry because his is the Chromebooks and I think Bridget was more interested in some other pieces. >> Okay, Shannon, that makes sense. And
then the just so everyone knows the next two meetings we've finished with the projects. Next two meetings are starting to go through the other tables and what we're thinking about writing the report the report that we're pulling together. Um, so if you have any questions that
have not been sent to Sean about pro team things you've already heard, like I sent in, could the police live live with one fewer vehicle? What was one question I had and so we'll see whether we have any of those those questions. Um, so
Shannon, that would be fine with me. Um, so Jerry is here for Chromebooks. Yes, Jerry is. Sorry, just getting my camera on. Jerry is our director of IT and we did have a um one of our capital
requests was um replace or because the sixth grade is moving into the middle school. The middle school has a a onetoone model with Chromebooks. Um so we wanted to provide that consist consistency with the sixth graders. Um,
and so there is a request for the Chromebooks for the sixth grade, but Jerry could speak more to that as well. >> Jerry, welcome. You'll have to unmute yourself, but we can see your box. >> Well, I hope he's still here. I'll send
him a quick text. >> Okay. And Shannon, do they not they don't have Chromebooks now in in Fort River and Wildwood? They're they're using something else. >> I believe Jerry can correct me if I'm
wrong, but I believe it's like a they're they're not onetoone certainly. Um but there might be some sort of rotation or card or something of that sort that's used. Um but not a onetoone model. Oh, >> Jerry, welcome. All right.
>> Sorry, I had to step out for a moment. Uh what was the question? >> So the the question Shannon briefly introduced Chromebooks. We haven't heard more about it, but my question was do they have Chromebooks in the current elementary schools? The kids who are
moving into the middle school? >> Yes and no. So uh the the Chestnut Academy pre presents a a little bit different uh situation than we currently have at the elementary schools. at the elementary schools now
everything is cartb based. Okay. So in the cart shuffles around as you know the the number of students in each classroom changes. At the secondary level, we have a a onetoone program where the students are issued a Chromebook when they enter
seventh grade. And they have that Chromebook for it could be as long as they're a student in the school district or whenever the model they got is due to be replaced. What we typically do is when you know the seniors graduate, we
take their Chromebooks, bring them back down to the seventh grade. Now with the sixth grade coming here, they want to also follow that onetoone model, which means we will be issuing Chromebooks to them that they could
theoretically have for seven years. So we're hoping to, you know, present provide them with new machines so they're not using some of the older machines. And I could do show and tell, but I'm going to avoid that with the huge stacks
of Chromebooks we've had that have died through attrition and >> let's just say rough use. Um, so so it's it's not just the sixth grade academy that we're we're going to do. uh we're hoping
to provide some replacements for some of those that we've lost for through attrition. So the building project they let me see according to the spreadsheet I was provided they anticipate uh
supplying 281 Chromebooks as part of the building project. Okay. Of course, that figure was based on the average cost of Chromebooks when that number was created. Um, if you
follow the news at all, you'll see that memory prices and solid state storage, which uses memory chips also, have gone through the roof. They're easily the the cost for those items have doubled within the last couple of months because of the
demand by the AI data centers. So, I'm not sure what we're going to be looking at as we come to buy things in the next few months or even over the next year. I had a server I had priced up at $14,000. When I went to actually place the order, they raised the price
$6,000. Okay. So, I couldn't buy the server I was looking at. Um, so yeah. So, what I'm looking at between I I bought 120 Chromebooks in the fall. those. I only
have 21 left because of all the failed devices we've had. Um, I have monies left in this current year's capital money, which I'm hoping to replace some additional Chromebooks before the year is out. And then this will help, you
know, the the money we're requesting now will uh provide the sixth grade and a few additional machines to kind of replace some of the other ones we've lost for attition. Unfortunately, one of the batches that we bought of Chromebooks, the
we bought 379 of a certain model and to this point we've probably replaced 300 of them. the keyboards have failed and they're >> they're continuing to fail. It's a defective device. They're out of
warranty. They're not covering it anymore. Um and so we're trying to replace some of those as well. >> That's a bad trap. Gettes are in I won't use cheap. They're inexpensive and they're built inexpensively.
So, unfortunately, that's the kind of the the life you get. We do buy them with four-year warranties, which include accidental damage protection, so we are covered for at least four of the years. When Google
originally uh released Chromebooks, they said, "We'll support them for five years. After that, you don't get updates anymore." Then, they were kind enough to extend it to 10 years. Great. These devices will not last 10 years. So
>> Jill, >> hi. Um, I have a couple questions. One, I just want to make sure that I heard you right on this one stat because this is all very interesting. Um, did you say you purchased 120 last fall and now only have 20 left or did I misunderstand that?
>> That's correct. In other words, I've had to replace a hundred machines that have failed um from last summer till now. Um at one school alone when we we do a a sweep
through all the schools and check every Chromebook in the summer, one school alone, we had 40 devices that we had to replace. Okay. So, >> and this is separate from the keyboard issue. This is just >> this Yes. >> general. >> Yeah. It could be,
>> you know, they're pretty beat up. >> Yeah. >> It could be dead batteries, broken screens we replace. That's a simple fix. We do that all inhouse and stuff. So, usually when the there's a failure that we have to replace it, it's a much
larger failure. It could be the main board, you know, kids unplugging and plugging the power cables. They beat those connectors up and snap them off and stuff. So eventually they're just unusable.
>> Hi Bridget. Bridget, let me just check. >> So we're we're on Chromebooks right now. >> Oh, perfect. >> Any other questions? >> I had a couple other questions. I'm sorry. >> No, no, just keep going. Yeah. >> So just the 281
number is that So that's not just for the sixth grade academy. That's including the sixth grade academy moving to onetoone and then other filling in other needs as well. Is that right? >> That number um when I when I put it in would uh
replace approximately 200 Chromebooks. Okay. The sixth grade academy we're looking at right now 142 students plus or minus. Okay. So, there's more there to have
some spares because things unfortunately break. So, we need some spares, but also to replace some there. Now, that was at $349 a unit. Um, I don't know what we're going to be paying,
you know, in in July. So then this one last question, sorry, is just related to just the portion of that that are for the sixth grade academy transition. I'm just wondering if you could because I see that it's marked as high high I forget how it's
worded, high importance or high priority. Um, and I also I have questions and this is probably not in maybe or maybe not in in your area, but I have questions about how developmentally appropriate it is to give sixth graders their own device to
be used that maybe, you know, and and that they may be in situations where they're more unsupervised with that device. But it more so I'm just wondering this shift doesn't seem critical to me though I understand wanting to have it be uniform
everybody's in the same building everybody uses the same model but what's your perspective on what makes this high priority >> uh the the high uh rate of attrition we've had for devices we need to buy them even if they don't take them home
and they sit here in a cart we just aren't the devices we have aren't going to make it much longer. So, we have enough between what the new building will allocate
and what we already purchased this year and and I don't know if we bought any last year. I'd have to look again, but unfortunately we we've seen way too much attrition. The Hila Packers, we have 107 of those. And what we've been seeing is
the cables that connect the screens are failing. So you move them and they start flickering and they fail. So it's it's sad, but that that's just where we are. So we're just trying to make sure that they have the devices they need when
they start in this building that are going to work. So we're not scrging around and trying to find devices that work. We see this with the seventh grade. Once the devices come down from the seniors, first of all, not all seniors have devices, so we don't have
enough often and have to buy more. But when they come down, they're typically in rough shape. So there's a lot of time spent either refurbishing, fixing, or anything else. So by starting them off with new equipment, we at least get them
through their career here. As far as whether it's appropriate, uh, you know, in Ammerst, we're a little different in that the middle school is seventh and eighth. Many districts, the middle school is 5 through 8th. So, they have
devices, they're given devices at a a younger age. Whether they take them home or not, I can't say. >> Sorry. And just a very small point, ju just to clarify, you could presumably keep the cart model if you wanted to in sixth grade. I defer to the school
administrators and and they've said they want to do the onetoone take-home. >> Part of this is is not all of our students have access to technology in the home and so we're trying to make sure we try
to keep things as level as possible and it's also having a consistent device in school and at home. Thanks, Jerry. I see Andy's hand is up. Andy. >> Hi, Jerry. Um, I just uh sort of I guess
this is sort of piggybacking on on Jill's question because if they were if the sixth graders were staying in their original schools, they'd have a cart approach and they wouldn't be taking the taking the things home. and and presumably um because they're moving to the middle
school, does that mean that the teachers are going to be teaching in a different way or there is there some different expectation? Is there is there different curricular expectations now than there would be otherwise or you know I can't speak to that completely. I would imagine it's not
going to be significantly different um because their curriculum won't change. They'll still have the same requirements for sixth grade. Um, again, I deferred I discussed this with Mr. Rodriguez which way he wanted to go with it and
this is his chosen model. >> I mean, I get that you may still just need this number just to replace the the existing ones at some point, but I just I'm just curious if that was >> they're going to need them whether they sit in a cart or they go back and forth.
They just might potentially might last longer if they're in a cart, but who knows, right? >> I have a quick >> answer for Andy, which is um they're going to be switching between classrooms like
it's the first time they they do that in the sixth grade. So, they go to different classrooms, including that they'll be having their foreign language in the actual middle school. So they'll be rotating for that as well. So now you've got three different classrooms.
So having them in a cart in one room isn't going to work as well as the onetoone even if at the end of the day they leave them in their home room, right? And don't take them home which some students will probably decide to do. >> Yeah. There's also, you know, working in
the library. Um, I don't know how they're going to handle the specials here, but certain classes are in the first floor and so they would be moving them around anyways between floors. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. >> So, is is that is that Jerry's I I don't have the list in front of me, Shannon. So, is that the that Jerry's here for that one project? >> Yes. >> Yes. then >> you are welcome to stay Jerry Jerry. So
>> fascinating but yeah I may stay a little >> okay. Um so I'm going to give a brief overview of some of the capital projects that we requested. Um and Mike's here with me as well to help answer questions. So I'll just go through those
and there's a change that I want to talk about at the end as well. Um, so one of our capital requests is for playground improvements at the Crocker Farm. Um, so right we know that we're having two elementary schools, Amethyst Brook and
and Crocker Farm. And Amethyst Brook is going to be very new, very shiny. Everything's, you know, brand new. Um, we don't want to leave Cracker Farm in a state of despair and make those students feel inequitable compared to the other school that has all of these new things.
So, we want to this summer we're working on a a lot of um Crocker Farm projects that normally we cannot do during the summer because our summer programming happens there. Um, but that's why they're going the summer program is going to be at Wildwood just for this summer. um so we can tend to some of the
overdue capital needs that Crocker Farm needs. As part of that, we would like to do some playground improvements and the zipline structure right now that is on the playground is a safety hazard and has to be removed. So, um we h we also
have to build the retaining walls around that playground. There's some rotting timbers um around the large play structure and there's damaged slides that need to be replaced and the storage shed um is rotting and also needs to be
replaced. And lastly, the a um the asphalt basketball courts need to be repaved. So, we're asking for 175,000 for those playground improvements. Um and we we'd like to be able to do that. I think, well, Mike, you could
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the hope is maybe this summer we'd be able to get that done along with the other projects, but I'll defer to you with that. Um, we're also requesting funds for a special education van. We currently have a van that has over 200,000 miles on it and is 10 years old
and is due for replacement. Um, we're also asking funds for a maintenance vehicle. Um the the vehicle that's that's being replaced is from 2007 and these are the ones that are that we use
to pl plow um the parking lots in the winter. Um and uh Sean had shared with me a spreadsheet of other capital projects that are on here and I guess these are like standard ones that we kind of ask for every year. Um, and it has it has to
do with like HVAC management, ADA upgrades and energy management, capital, furniture replacements, grounds improvements. Um, so I was looking at these and he asked me if we still needed some of these these fundings and some of them we do not because we already have funding available and I don't want to
ask for something that we already have and want to use those funds first. Um, so on that list that Sean provided, I would like to remove the energy management capital 15,000, the copers of 51,000, the HVAC improvements of 25,000,
and uh the exterior and interior ADA upgrades for 30,000, and the exterior door for 10,000. And the reason why we're removing them is not because there isn't something to do with them. It's because we already have funds available that we'd like to use. First, the three
that were on this list that I would like to remain um to keep is the furniture replacement for 10,000, the grounds improvement for 25,000, and the school security for 10,000. Um, and those are things that we don't have buckets for
already that we do tend to ask for year-over-year that of things that come up during during the year that we don't have to use our operating budget that we can use a capital fund for. Um, and and with the projects that I'd like to be removed, that was a total of 130,000.
And there's a project um that I'd like to do in place of that. Um, and it has to do with Crocker Farm and it also has to do with facilities. I would really like for um us to have a consultant do a
comprehensive study of Crocker Farm, what the facilities needs are and focus on green energy and what would that plan look like to make Crocker Farm more self-sufficient and and and what does it look like? What
does that cost look like for outy years? what is that plan and really have that welldeveloped by a consultant. And then the other piece that I would like to uh to h to seek funding for from the
130,000 that we removed is an operational review of our facilities department. And so basically our staffing efficiencies and our and how we deliver our services. So, right now, um, if you're not aware, our drivers are
also our maintenance workers. So, that's great because they have a full-time job. Some drivers, you know, are part-time. They drive in the morning and they have a a time off in the middle of the day and then they go back to driving. But, we had this model for some time, and it is very efficient in in terms of cost
savings that you might perceive that way. And I I think that's why why it was intended. and you might be able to get more drivers because that you're offering them a full-time job and not a part-time job. But we're finding we have a couple vacancies with drivers that we
cannot fill it um fill the positions which has created us um having to contract out more for those positions and we also have a significant amount of capital needs that we need to tend to. So Kathy, I know you mentioned um projects that we haven't spent funding
for yet and what is our plan for that? Part of the reason why we can't get to it all is our maintenance crew is our drivers and they're constantly being pulled away throughout the day. um and and so I'd like to have a study done of
our staffing model and and understanding our capital needs and even though it might be more efficient to have the driver do the driving and the maintenance, I'd really like to see a
study done as if we had a full-time maintenance crew and maybe um the the drivers were part-time, like what does that cost look like? But what does our long-term cost look like if we're able to actually get to the deferred maintenance because we have a full-time
maintenance crew and to have a deep dive analysis in this in a in a way that um I don't believe it's something that I would be able to do. So I would like an outside consultant to assess this um and I think it it will help us with um just
our maintenance our costs um long term and coming up with a different strategy and maybe that's maybe we do this and it's really not efficient and it's not something we should do but I think it's really worth having a deep dive to to
know 100% before we just brush it off without pursuing it. Um, so between the Crocker Farm and this, I would like I would like to use the 130,000 for a consultant to help with these two pieces. Um, and that's my spiel. So,
Mike and I will take questions and and go from there. So, um, let me just ask I mean, you rattled off. I can remember the sheet a little bit, but but um I have a series of questions and I'm just going to wait for other
people as well. And so I am also asking about the three years and older Shannon where when I added them up there was about a million dollars. Um so it's a question of can any of can any of those be closed to bring some money in. Um so
we can get to that next. Um, so questions on what Shannon just did that if you look at the spreadsheet, my question on a lot of those was if we're moving to one group of kids to a brand new school and then we have Crocker was
furniture, HVAC, doors, windows, everything. Were they all Crocker? And you you've said kind of I think they are all Crocker. They're not the new school. You know, you're not spending money on that. So now you just said uh furniture
grounds and school security keeping that that's Crocker. Yes. >> Right. >> Okay. So that's specific to the Crocker building. >> Yes. Um but I don't I I wouldn't want it to say specific to only Crocker because
what if there is a need that wasn't accounted for that for the new building that we're not aware of yet? Like I I just I guess we c we can be sus specific, but I would prefer not to be specific to the building just to allow
us some flexibility. >> Yeah. Because there will be costs with the new building. I mean it'll be a new building. So our expectation will be anything that breaks need or you know that is defective needs to be repaired and it'll be under a warranty. But some
other costs will still exist. Um, you know, things related to the grounds, things, you know, um, things sometimes happen, a plow hits a curb and, you know, damage it or different situations like that that will
probably require some money for the the new building. >> Okay. And just so people know, the new building gets new furniture too, you know, and more was my understanding is we ended up buying more and going to
store some of it than the actual headcount so that we're not short on furniture, but um so the furniture grounds and school security. So are there I don't want to jump in as chair. I'm going to wait and see if other people have, but I have several
questions. So, I'll wait to see if there are others. Bridget. >> Um, yeah. Hi, Shannon. Or maybe this is for Mike. Like, I'm just thinking about um when you're doing the operational
review, like is that something that can take into account the things that aren't getting done and where the holes are, where the sort of gaps are? I think anyone who's been in the schools knows that we're having just so much deferred maintenance and then over time that
that's costing us more over the long run. And I'm wondering the consultant would do the staffing model, but would there be some of that other component too to like figuring out like what could I think this goes back to the thing everyone who knows me knows I love to
say which is are we thinking of some way to invest capital-wise and I know your other project idea for the greening of Crocker Farm and some of that facility stuff works that way but in which way will like this sort of investment help
us to be more operational? efficient and cost effective. >> Yeah, I think that is part of the goal. Um, and we like I have not developed like a formal RFP for this, so there is still time to write and and add to that if this funding is approved. But yes, I
would agree with what you said. >> Yeah, I think it would have to be part of it. Andy, >> Shannon, do do you have a sense of um you between the two projects that you're talking about, green energy and for
Crocker and operational review, um what the respective costs of those would be or you just figure that they would add up to 130 and there might be some wiggle room? Uh yeah. So we I talked about this with Mike and Adam a little bit and for Cracker Farm, we're thinking probably in
the 50 60,000 range. For the other piece of it, probably in the 60 70,000. Um so if we had to separate those into buckets, I could I could do that. Um or keep it in one bucket.
Yeah, that's that's a good segue to my question, Shannon. Um and and then you we Sean can put connect you with um Bob Parent and Rob Mora. We and Jeremiah we did uh building assessment of 10
buildings, 11 buildings. Um and my recollection is it was about 25,000 per building. They had a particular technology they were using. So it also could like look into the inside of the roof, not just look at top of the roof. And
for some reason, we did Wildwood, but we didn't do Crocker. Um, so there's a price tag attached to something like what you're talking about for Crocker. So I just would like a to get a little bit more information on a that kind of a
building assessment. Um, what beyond what we did for each of the others? And Sea, I'm just remembering they said 25,000. I may be wrong on on what that was, but that gave us something on every building. The >> fire. >> I asked Jeremiah. You're right. I think
he said um I as actually asked Rob. Um I think he said it was about 20 to 25. It also varies based on the size of the building. Um but I don't think that what that study did is exact. It doesn't do everything that Shannon's asking for too, >> right? Because Shannon's asking also more, you know, if you converted Yeah.
the envelope related to the HVAC system. >> Yeah, I think that what Shannon's requesting relative, you know, I think that's a good baseline and then the additional pieces that um the schools are looking to accomplish is, you know, I think it's reasonable the additional money that they're seeking. >> Okay. Then on the staffing efficiency,
I'm not sure I completely understand. Um so when for example one of the things that I know hasn't happened that you got money for was the um auditorium floor is that right in Crocker you know there's a or there there's there's some pieces
that have sat there that were funded. We wouldn't normally do some of those projects with our own maintenance staff. I think we would contract for them. So I don't know how much of it is a shortage of maintenance people for the um going through all those open projects. How
much of it is no maintenance staff to do the work versus no procurement qu people to get a contract out for someone to do the work you know so so trying to understand the difference and I don't know enough when Jeremiah in
town is giving us facility my sense is our maintenance people aren't doing a lot of that work themselves they're contracting for it you know that the the staff itself is doing the the the more minor side but they're not doing any major pieces. So that's what I'm not
quite sure how staffing model gets you to getting the money you've requested spent on the projects you need to do, you know. So I think every project that you asked for in the past when it was talked about, they all made sense to me,
you know. Um so it's are they not getting done because of staff not there to do the procure you know get it to from an idea to go out for bid or is it actually humans would normally have done that work. Is that clear the way I've asked you know how much of it is a
staffing model versus um a you know facilities having the time to go out and get a bid to get the work done? >> I think it's a combination of both. Um some of the work like like bigger projects like you mentioned the Crocker
farm gym floor um that's not something that we would do ourselves. We would contract that work out. Um but other things traditionally like you know even like like some of the Crocker Farm uh
renovation work as far as like zipline and the retaining wall like other you know mediumsiz projects we could accomplish ourselves but we don't have the personnel. Um, so the
nonspecialized uh projects kind of are what we would be more able to handle ourselves. >> And then when you originally proposed them, was the thought that you would have the staff to do them and we were just funding the supply cost or were we
funding the that's why I'm not trying to get it. But we always I always thought we were funding the additional staff to do the work. You know that I didn't think we were the and I'm talking about the big ticket items, not the you know 5,000 or I guess we don't fund anything
less than 10. Am I am I being clear on on this? You know, so on, you know, when we're doing a roof, our staff doesn't do the roof. Um but if we're just doing patching of a roof, the staff might do it. You know, the difference between the two of those. Um,
so just trying to understand shown because it interacts with my question of all these open projects that are 3 years older the schools added up to a lot of money. Um, and is it sitting there because you don't have maintenance staff or is it
sitting there because you don't have people who can go out to procurement because you need someone to design it? you know, and where is the bottleneck in getting that money from a good project to getting done? I I I don't understand. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, like Mike said, I think it's a combination of of both. However, I do want just want to point out some of these older projects um they are for Fort River and Wildwood and so they're and they're specific to those school
district or those school buildings. So knowing that they're closing, we have not invested in them because of that. Um so there is a a a decent chunk of that um because of that.
Um >> okay, >> Mike, did you want to help respond to the remaining of that? Um and some of it is also um you know we have uh maintenance specialists and
you know it so we over the years we've struggled um maintaining maintenance specialists like we used to have a plumber for the school district uh several years ago um and we no longer are meet the salary requirements to have
you know a plumber uh to attract a plumber Um some of it is related to that. Um and yeah, some of it is not having the personnel. Um so combination. >> So Sean, maybe I'm going to just follow
up with you. if if if if they can close some of those projects because they were specific to Fort River and Wildwood, so they really are not going to use that money. Could any of that be shifted to what Shannon is now asking for on this in this budget? Um that's question
number one. And question number two is if you need a maintenance specialist at a certain level, could you do a consulting contract for a couple years for a maintenance specialist to do this
catchup and h have it be called capital? >> Uh so let me start with your first question. So, um, yes. And I don't I mean, what Shannon's proposed basically keeps the school request level with what
was already in the plan cuz she's um lowering some of the other projects that were already in there. So, I don't think you necessarily need the money from the closed out projects in order to fund what's being proposed. Um, but the the money if if those projects are closed out, it could go towards this or could
go towards a supplement, excuse me, a supplemental appropriation for roads or something else in the future. Um, so and that's for all the projects, not just um, right, you know, could it could be appropriate for other needs. So um, and then your second question, not it can it
can't be used for people. So, if it was um I guess we'd have to see what the structure looked like. If there were I think assessments are fine. Um if it was like ongoing technical support, I'd have to think about it. Um it would
have to be with a like a company, a contract with a private company to do that. And I'd have to just see kind of look at our plan and see if we've done something. I'm asking because if part of the problem is you're not going to have the staffing and the operating budget um and you need it to do a catchup you know
so planning has come to us for consultants for example so it's people outside with a specialy so that's my question on that >> yeah so so what would be okay Kathy think because we've actually you know thought about this something similar like if the schools wanted to do a contract with an architect or an
engineer um to help them you know a lot A lot of the hard part and the the challenge is converting this creating the specs and the you know this is for all projects um getting it from idea to specs to bidding as you you mentioned.
So if an idea was to fund a like a they call it like a house doctor contract with an architect where you you know you go out for a competitive uh solicitation and you pick you know hear from different designers and you pick one and then you give projects to them as they
come up. I think we've actually done that in the past. I want to say um that we did that with an architect maybe 10 years ago where we had a bunch of little projects and there were some engineering ones and there were some non-engineering ones and we picked a um arch we picked a
firm to do that. That might actually be where Gail came from honestly. You know the architects who did the roof evaluation. I can't remember if that was how we first got introduced to them but um so that kind of thing I think would be okay. um from capital.
>> Okay. And and then my when I was thinking of closing out some of them, I did have a question and it's shown on the sheet. You have the Crocker playground being debt. So I was thinking if it wasn't debt, we can avoid taking
on debt for that 175. So that was part of my thinking of you had earlier said trying to avoid debt as much as possible. So that was the one small on the smaller level that you had listed as debt is the only way it made everything balance.
>> Yeah. >> And so you got 75,000 back from Shawn. Um so that could reduce that to 100. So I was looking can can we remove that one debt financed project. Um so that would that's just where I was going with
thinking of moving the money around. Yeah. >> Yeah. No. And and maybe that would be when you talk about closing out projects and using it as a funding source, that might be a better consideration for the recommendation from the committee would be if if any of those projects were closed out between the money coming back
from it and um some funds coming back from older school projects that might be able to pay for that Crocker Farm one so we don't have to borrow for it. um you know because I agree with you that's our goal is to try to minimize borrowing >> and that just means everyone knows that means more money for next year if we
don't borrow you know so the the borrowing hits the following year and so then on the staffing the question Sher Shannon has come up with is a new project called the staffing project you
know a staffing efficiency project can we fund that with capital money >> yeah we've done I I believe we did a compensation study for human resources once upon a time out of this. So studies, assessments, um you know, if you look again, if you look at the um
definition of capital that this committee worked on um several years ago, we kind of created an allowance for like consulting contracts that are defined, you know, expensive. Um but they're kind of one-time defined expenses where you wouldn't want to build that into an operating budget
because you'd have kind of a yo-yo effect where you increase it dramatically one year and then it would drop off the next year. So um so yeah consulting sort of one-time consulting contracts like that we've done that before >> and then
the request that if possible rather than having two separate ones with a a a dollar amount. Shannon was asking could she have she wants to do these two things under one 130ish can um that kind
of bundling can and I'm just looking for guidance on if we we like the idea can we suggest it and is it okay to do it that way um or do you need to keep it >> they are distinct they're quite different um I think you'd go to different people Shannon for the two
projects um >> yeah I think you know Shannon I spoke about that too and and you know defer to Shannon. I think my preference would be to to split them for tracking purposes. Um and you know Shannon and I can work together about what that split would be if that's what this you know committee
recommends. >> Okay. Um so that then I think it would be helpful Shannon if you give us the piece of paper you were quickly reading off of. you know, just give it to Sean and we can put it in the packet so that we have it for our own notes. So, I have I I wrote down the PE
and we can watch the tape, but we're looking at a series of line items that are disappearing. >> Oh, he has it in an email already, Sean. >> Yeah. Don't Yeah, please don't give me that paper, Shannon. I don't know how to get that. >> No, no. I I you know don't be I I literally I you know a digital file so
that when we write it in we can have uh we can be specifically mentioning what was on the original list. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions then if there are none I just want to thank you for being very creative.
>> Oh actually I do have a question. >> Okay. Um, so, uh, my question is, if we have these projects that aren't going to be spent because they were for Wildwood and Fort River, what is that process for us? What do, what do we do? Is that just an email to Sean? Is that something that
involves school committee? What do we >> Yeah, Shan, if you just email me the um like the project name and the amount that you see that can be closed out, then we can close them out and I can give a report to this committee because we're probably going to have some some town projects that are going to be doing
the same thing. So, we can update the committee at either the next meeting or the meeting after that, how much has been closed out and what the balance is in our sort of closed out capital account. >> Okay. Um, and then my other question is after this meeting, I heard you say there was two more meetings. Could you
just briefly remind me of this process and when we find out I >> Yeah. So, so we we're an advisory committee to the town manager. So, we're not decision makers. We're adviserss. So, we collect our thoughts and we look
at we we've not had a lot of discussion about the outy years at all. We've raised a few. you know, it's a five-year plan, so we focus just on the coming year. So, then we write a report. Um, and the report
if if, for example, every project that was proposed, we thought was a great idea, we would be saying we thought they were all great and as originally proposed, we've that's not happened in the last multiple years. What's happened is some projects were removed off the
amount was changed or we make in this case we make a recommendation. So we make a recommendation to the town manager and it is due before he puts together his capital plan. And meanwhile since Shawn is talking with Paul all the
time Sean you know it's it's on its way to the town manager even as we're talking about it. So we will meet next Wednesday and the following Wednesday and hopefully if we are efficient we'll be done by um that March 20 whatever the
March 25th date and we send that report to the town manager with a copy to the town council. So, this goes directly to the town manager and then he puts together a five-year capital plan that comes to the council on May 1st along
with the rest of the budget. And I can't think of a time that has been different than what came out of JCPC. Every once in a while there was a disagreement on something, but for the most part, things changed along the way. Like Sean is already going to be changing some of the
numbers when we see it next week. Um so the goal is we have to get to a balanced next year where the revenues match the expenses. We don't have to worry about it being unbalanced and out years but we can comment on it. So that's that's the
timeline on it and the committee just we collect our thoughts and we write a report. >> Okay. Thank you very much. So I guess that's the short way of saying usually what we recommend happens but you won't know the council gets to
vote on the capital you know the town manager then the council and I don't think the only question we had last year on the capital plan Sean was why we didn't do a Crocker building assessment you know why do we do all the buildings
except Crocker we did Wildwood but not Crocker and we had questioned this amount for they financing package, but Paul decided to keep it in. We didn't take it out. We just questioned it whether we should do it. So that is uh
that's the process. So thank you. Thank you both very much. Um just just so people know on extra technical support, we're having a school new bu school school building committee meeting on Friday. And one of the issues
is with the sophisticated HVAC system coming in in the new school. Does there need to be some extra support in the first year for the people who are running the system? And that's that's going to be a discussion at the committee. we have money in the larger
project if we think that's that's a good idea. A lot of schools to get to next zero have discovered that they need how to how to make this make it work. And so that's that would be supplementing Mike's team um during during the first
year of operation of the building. Um so that's that's going to be a discussion on Friday um on whether we need that or not. Sean. >> Oh, I just want to say, so just a reminder, next week we're back to five o'clock. >> Yeah, we're back to >> And next week, um, we have the resident
capital requests. And so >> I've I've extended an invitation to all of the resident capital requesters that submitted nonroad sidewalk projects. Um, and I emailed all the road sidewalk projects and let them know that there's
this transportation advisory committee be informed and that their project requests are going to pass along to to public works and that the they'll make their way um to the transportation committee. Um, but all the non-road sidewalk projects um I'll put in your packet for next week. And I know at
least one gentleman said he will be coming here to speak um I said they could speak for 3 to 5 minutes um to their requests and then this committee can decide. So right now there are no resident capital requests funded in the plan. So if there's any that this committee recommends it would
essentially need to help find the funding or identify the funding for it. Um but this those are kind of interesting too because they're a little bit outside the box type projects that you don't typically get. So >> okay. So, we'll have that and then you were going to bring us some updated
tables as well. >> Yeah. >> And and if people have any project questions, they should get them to Sean before next week because he's um you know providing answers to us. I'm looking I'm going to see whether there
is still no uh the next item on the list is public comments. We have one member of the public uh in the our attendees. So, are we done as a committee before I open it up for public comments? Yes, it looks like it.
So, if the public would like to ask a question, please raise your hand. Uh there are no public comments. I want to thank Mike, Shannon, and earlier Jerry for coming to us and also
thinking out out of the box into the future, which is I thought what we just heard, not just what do I need today, but what it was starting with what what you were asking Lee, are we doing any planning here? Are we thinking about the future and how to make this work better, which I think we heard a lot from
Shannon on that with these schools. So, thank you for that. And I think we are adjourned. So, I will make a motion to adjurnn since we and the council are voting on adjournment just to make sure we all agree. I move that we adjourn. Is there a second? >> Second.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Lee >> second. >> Kathy. Kathy says yes. Jean? >> Yes. >> Andy? >> Yes. >> Bridget? >> Yes. >> Jill? >> Yes. We are adjourned at
uh 5:46 which gives those of us who want to go downtown for the design standards time to get downtown. So thank you all very much. Um thanks to everyone who participated. We are ajourned.