All right. Hello everybody. Calling to order the February 11th uh meeting of the Joint Capital Planning Committee. I think the first thing I'm going to do is just make sure that everyone can hear and be heard and then I'm going to run through an
election of a chair and then I'll turn it over to that person. Um so I'll call on your name. If you could just respond affirmatively that you can hear and be heard. Uh Lee Edwards >> here, >> Eugene Jafredo and and correct me if I
pronounced your name incorrectly um at all. >> Gredo is probably the >> GoFredo. Okay, >> something like that. Thank you. >> Jill Breick >> here. >> Kathy Shane >> here. >> Bridget Hines >> here. >> Andy Churchill >> here.
>> Deborah Leonard >> here. >> I think I got everybody right. All right. So, I am going to open it up for nominations to be the chair of the joint capital planning committee. Just for a little bit of background, this group meets about
sixish times through the months of February and March. Um, we'll get on to some sort of consistent meeting schedule. Um, there'll be some hearings uh with departments and and inviting uh some residents who submit a capital request in if they want. And then
there'll be a report, you know, discussion and report writing process at the end. But, um, you know, Kathy can speak to it. She's done it a few times. It's not the biggest lift for a chair, but it is involved and, you know, could be intense for this period of time. Uh,
Andy, >> um, I'd like to nominate Kathy Shane. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Edwards is a second. Great. Um, and then I will Is there any other nominations?
You can self-nominate if you'd like to put yourself up there. No. All right. Um, I'll do a roll call. Uh, Lee Edwards. >> Uh, yes. >> Uh, Eugene Gofredo, >> yes. >> Kathy Shane, >> yes. >> Andy Churchill,
>> yes. >> Deborah Leonard, >> yes. >> Jill Breivik, >> yes. Bridget Hines. >> Yes. >> And did I say Deborah Leonard yet? I already did. >> Yep. Yes, you did. >> I think I got everybody on. All right. So, it's unanimous. I'm going to turn it
over to Kathy Shane who will run the rest of the meeting. >> So, thank you everyone for the vote of confidence. Um uh this JCPC was turned over to me uh a while ago by Andy
Steinberg, who I learned a lot from. So, um I'm the floor is open for the vice chair and I'll just say a little bit of words on what that person has done. It's uh we we generate a report and I try to take notes all the way through on
anything where we're not just saying yes to what's been proposed to us. We try to say yes in a positive way, confirm. And the uh vice chair helps make sure the notes are accurate and captures it. So, the two of us look at it before the
drafts come and the vice chair chairs when I'm not here or when I'm in odd places where I feel like my Zoom is not going to be solid enough. Um, so the floor is open for nominations for vice chair. Lee, and you can do, you know, I
can I can do hands that way if you raise your hand that way too, Lee. >> I nominate Andy Churchill. And Andy, do you accept that nomination? >> Sure. >> Just you're willing to serve. Okay. Any
other nominations? >> If not, I will put it to a vote. Uh, I will start with Lee. >> Yes. >> Jill, >> yes. >> Eugene. And Jean, do you want to be Eugene or Jean? >> Either one. We'll say Eugene. Keep it consistent.
>> Okay. Eugene. >> Yes. Yes, >> Andy. >> Yes, >> Bridget. >> Yes. >> And Deb, >> yes. >> It's unanimous. So, I believe the agenda for today is Sean is going to walk us
through the process of JCPC and show you uh the using last year as an example in terms of what the final report. We we as a committee um spend most of the time focusing on the proposals for the coming
year which is FY27 but we do re review the whole five-year plan. So um when when JCPC when the council was first doing this, one of the things I noticed about the five-year plan is only the first when we got
through JCPC made sure the the first year is balanced. we can't spend more money than we have. And then there was very little attention to the other four years and they were rarely anywhere near balance. When I say out of balance, like 34 million in the deficit range. So we
do spend some time looking at those outy years. Um do the projects make sense? and the review of the projects in general that are being brought to us is a sense of urgency um that urgency and
priority and Sean is the receiver of all the projects from the schools and from the municipal government and from the library for the region. We get one already voted on capital plan. So, we
are not we aren't voting on specifics within the regional capital budget. It goes in as a line item. So, Sean, I'm going to turn it over to you. We have um one, two, we have three people who haven't been on JCPC before cuz one of
the things he'll explain is when we're looking at the money we have available for the coming year, we have to subtract out the debt service, the debt and interest payments on anything that was financed with borrowing before. So, we're looking at the amount available
after that has been subtracted out. So Sean, I am going to turn it over to you at this point. >> So I'll um I'll quickly recap the process and then talk about the role of um joint capital planning committee and then it'll probably be helpful to look at last year's plan and um what that
looked like and what decisions were made. So process-wise, we every year we um solicit project requests from residents through our resident capital process and we solicit um capital need
requests from departments. So schools and town departments, police, fire, libraries included in that as well. And um this year's timeline was a little adjusted because of uh turnover in my office, but we we still followed um a
form of that process. And so all those requests come in. The resident capital requests um generally fall into two buckets, uh road improvements and non-road improvements. And uh in the past and Kathy feel free to correct me
if something's changed in the last couple years um we've this committee isn't really equipped to evaluate road improvement requests and so what I think we're planning to do is to take all the road there so quite you know I would say
half of them if not more are you know with speed humps crosswalks um you know bus station uh ter uh terminal areas things like that um those requests were going to hold and there is a a new transportation commission that the
council um created and the the idea is that those would go to that group um to work with our DPW on how to rank them, evaluate them, fund them out of the existing uh annual road money that the
DPW gets or transportation plan money that that a DPW gets. So those projects um that would likely be the route for them. And then all the non-road projects we would have a period at the end of uh
during this process where optionally uh they can uh the person who submitted that request can come in and speak to their proposal. Um and then we also take those resident capital requests and we determine sort of whose world it lives in. Is it a
public safety improvement? is it a you know something for the library or something for the schools and we'd get their feedback as well. So that's sort of the resident capital request process. Um and then the departmental uh request >> I just see Andy hand or do you want questions as you go through?
>> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. >> So Andy's hands up. >> Just a quick question. Um the is there a specific pool of money that's available for those resident capital requests and is there a limit on the amount or >> There is no specific pool of money. Um,
I'll have to pull out the there there's a there is a like limitation on the size and the amount of the request. >> 50,000 has been the max and to be a capital request at all, it has to be at least 10. >> Yeah. you know, so it that's the range
and and I'll just say we're the difficulty at JCPC has been that um if for example it's a traffic slowing a ped speed hump on a particular street that happens to be a street and Andy knows we've got one up in North Ammeris all of
you that you can avoid a traffic light by speeding down two streets then the question comes we've got other streets in town that are just like that and so a group of residents have organized and proposed it Is this the highest priority? And DPW doesn't have a list of
what's a priority. And so we we put the resident requests in kind of a doop where they come to us. We need to know the priority of it. And the first year there was a sidewalk study that was funded um and it was eventually done.
But Sean, the question I have, the money sits in our capital program. So if it goes to the commission, they don't have money to spend. So would it be they're approving an idea and it comes in to the capital plan at the at the town man? You
know, where does it they don't have any money? We >> So it could it could take a couple different routes. So I would say the first place it would be does Guilford already have funds for it, right? So road money, transportation plan money, those are things that Guilford requests every year and uses every year. So
depending on what the request is, it could come out of those funds. Um I actually spoke with Guilford a little bit about this today that you know that list I think the list that's come in part of it will be what are there any projects on that list that are going to be where we are looking to do a road
project anyway because that would be a good way to chip away at that list. then if we're going to repave a road um that's already on on the plan then some of those projects could get done and then otherwise the commission would help rank them or prioritize them and work with Guilford on the funding. So again
it could be the the request would go through Guilford is how I would advoc would say that. So in a future year if if Guilford wants to request additional funds to do more of those he would have to submit that through his his request. But, um, I will say we're working with the council and we're going to be
bringing forward, you know, a road improvement plan that, um, will likely have more funding for roads and and these types of projects. >> Okay. And so, just for the people who haven't been on JCPC, everyone who has been on and knows what it ends up
happening is we say we we like some of these, but they need they need to be place. It could be crosswalks. Sometimes it's blinking lights near a school, you know, something that slows things down. Um, and the sidewalk study was the only
other one I remember that really was not in this category. Deb, >> yeah, I just had a question about the road improvement plan. I missed um is would that be funded through uh JCPC or the the capital cash capital as well or
is it a separate separate thing? Um so the plan will uh the plan incorporates funds that would be requested through the capital plan which JCPC would review. Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> So you would you know so that plan would
you know it's going to have back and forth with the council and be evaluated and whatever comes out of that would inform future year requests from again Guilford and and the DPW around um road investments. >> Okay. So all those capital requests come
in from department heads. Um the hope is that most of the capital requests that come in from department heads every year were already on the plan somewhere. So we department heads have to provide us with a detailed project description for the projects that are coming up in the upcoming fiscal year. There are other
projects in outy years um but those are not what gets funded every you know and during the annual budget process. It's only the the projects in the upcoming fiscal year that get funded through the appropriation process annually. So the hope is that when those project requests
come in, there's no surprises. We kind of knew those projects were on the plan and they're moving forward now a year, you know, rolls forward a year every every process. Um but inevitably there's always some surprises, some new needs that pop up um that maybe those weren't on the plan. And then we also work with
department heads to adjust the outy years. And then there's always a new year that gets added to the five-year plan as you roll things forward and we populate that year as well. So all that's done to develop a preliminary capital improvement plan which will be presented to you all at
your next meeting. And then from there we will schedule a time for all of the departments to come in who have projects and to present their projects to you all and answer your questions. Um and we will give you
the project writeups uh in advance so that um you have you can send questions in advance essentially or you can review them and if you have questions the department heads can come prepared to answer those questions. Um and in some cases you'll see a project request for a
dollar amount and then what's in the capital plan may be a lower dollar amount. Um just to be clear that may be that you know they the department has requested one amount and you know based on our assessment of the funds available um you know we're not able to fully fund that request. So just keep that in mind.
Uh Deb >> you're muted. Yeah. Go ahead. >> I I always have questions. I'm just getting started on this. So looking at the capital plan the projects that people will be coming bringing forward are on the capital plan. >> Yeah. So the capital imp the capital
improvement plan that we will share with you at the next meeting, all the projects that you will see in FY27 will have a project write up or a project description that will be shared with you to give you more details about that project request,
>> but they're already included in the capital improvement plan, right? The >> plan, they're in the plan. They're not funded. So again, they nothing gets funded until every year the the council has to appropriate the funds to allocate the money. >> Okay. >> So let me try to explain it with an
example. Um we have a five-year plan that's already been posted. So there was a plan for specific projects for FY27 already. >> Yeah. >> Um in my experience, those are not always the projects we see in the year
that we're then reviewing them, you know. So we can see a like a plan for buying these vehicles or repairing the Crocker farm roof or you you can go down down the list and see them. So the expectation is we would be seeing
some or all of those when we're looking at this year but Sean is going to bring to us what he's actually got from departments which may vary from what they a year ago thought they were going to ask in FY27. and they're e they might not be ready to do it for a reason.
>> That's not uncommon for a department to say we're not ready to do this project. Let's push it out a year and then they so they don't submit a project form and you're not going to be asked to essentially um you know re make a recommendation on that for the following year. >> Uh Bridget has a Deb did that answer
your questions? >> I just have more questions. So, you know, >> but that one so you could look at the current one, you know, the most recent fiveyear and get a sense of what it is, >> but but >> and we're going to go through the plan too, Deb. So, there's going to be lots of >> we can u answer any questions you have
now, but there I'm sure there'll be time to as we go through the plan if you have other questions. Yep. >> Okay, >> Bridget. >> Thanks. So um I went through this pro process last year and I felt like the part of the process from a big picture
perspective that that was sort of missing and some of this you know may happen behind the scenes and the work that Sean and Paul and the departments are doing but what it felt like to me was we just were getting like the departments this
department comes that department comes this department comes without an overall strategy. And so what comes to mind for me is that townwide we have equal percentages for operating budget. Right?
So um I'd be very curious to see like just big picture in terms of the last five years for the operating budget for the small for the small cash capital. How does that divide by the areas? And then what's our plan for this year? And
what type of numbers we're looking at to get that sort of balance or equivalence across the area. I don't know if the overall number is 7,000, like what's 51% of that for the town, 47 for the schools, 2% for the libraries, that type
of breakdown. >> Yeah. So, we'll give you a breakdown of how the FY27 requests kind of um covers different departments. I will say with capital, it's not and it never really has been, you know, a percentage base
where we say this much for this department, this much for this department. It's really based on needs and prioritization. Um, you know, we're doing a brand new school right now. That would be many times over the capital funds that we have. We're doing a library, right? Same thing. Um so it's really been driven and
>> priority cash right >> well this will include >> cash capital >> uh will this also well there's cash capital there's debt you will see projects potentially this year that are requesting a borrowing authorization um those projects were part of the capital improvement program um and are are part
of the capital improvement program because um we have to monitor our debt um and and the library in particular because the library is not funded through a debt exclusion uh the debt for the library project impacts how much funding is available for other capital. So, um, and then with the schools, we
still it's still part of, you know, because it's a huge capital investment, it's still part of our capital improvement program, even though the debt is funded through a debt exclusion, >> you know. So, one of the things that's odd about the capital side, Bridget, is there's $2 million being raised by the
debt exclusion for the Emmesis Brook School. We don't have any say out of that, but that is part of the capital budget. you know it's part of the town it's got a revenue it's got a revenue set to it um the CPA money similarly the
projects that have been voted out on that is part of the capital but the money for it is coming from CPA resources you know so that what you see is uh uh and then you know a fire uh ladder truck is paid off over multiple
years you know so and that comes in because it's debt so you can and the regional school comes into us as I said the regional school gets voted on separately the capital and it just comes in on here it is we the committee is not looking at changing that so that is that
is accept that as the reality of this year or the next year so different things come into the budget in different ways um without it saying x% or y% it really varies over time a lot
>> yeah I noticed that. >> Um, yeah. One of the things that it's not clear to me, um, well, lots of things aren't clear to me. I'm just getting started in this process and I haven't really spent that much time on it, but
it it seems like like the school and and you said the Ammerst, it's just the Amoris elementary schools. We have a um a 5-year capital plan. And I'm not sure how that fits in
with the 5-year capital plan that's in the the the uh capital plan, the FY26 capital improvement plan because there's lines on it and some of them are the same, but some of them are different. >> Yeah. So, we would work with Shannon and
Jerry and um Michael uh to understand what their five-year outlook is, but not every single thing for all departments that's on their five-year outlook makes it onto the 5-year plan. Okay? >> And you know, it it is not an exact science. We have to build a plan that we
can fund, right? So, if everyone put every single need that they've identified, all it would show us is that we don't have enough money to fund all those needs, right? So what we've started in in past years is we >> we build a realistic capital plan um
that is that can be funded within the resources that we have. And then we also identify projects that departments have identified as needs that may not be on the capital plan yet because there's no not a funding source for it, but we don't want to lose track of those
projects. Um, so that's an opportunity too for discussion again and ultimately this committee can make the recommendation that it wants to make. So getting back to the role of this committee, this committee's role is to make a recommendation to the town manager on his capital improvement program. Right? So this is part of the
town manager's budget ultimately that gets proposed to the council on May 1st and this committee's role is to make a recommendation to him. And and that line the line in the budget is the line we're talking about funding. The line that says cash capital in the budget.
>> We are looking at this committee is looking at the overall 5-year capital improvement program of which >> that line is one part of it. >> But you'll see there's a debt piece. I mean, you know, there's we have to pay our debt, but it's all it's a big picture. Let me put it that way. It's
not um you're looking at all projects that are being requested for FY27. And I have a question about the region, but >> let's and then John can probably put the table up. I'll go to Andy. He can put lead you through it a little bit because it might help, you know. So, we're
trying to focus on what kinds of things we are going to be able to be making recommendations on and which kinds of things are given to us. Like the region budget's just given to us and the CPA budget is just given to us. You know, it's coming from another source that got
voted on. Um, and the others for the current year are coming from specific requests for projects. Oh, Andy. >> Yeah, I guess I was just um trying to step back and wondering what the sources
of the funding are. Is it is it all the annual budget or is some of it from capital reserves or or or you know I I'm not quite sure what all >> No, that's a great question. Yeah. >> Um, so there's multiple sources. So, uh,
there's the debt exclusion. That will be one source that you'll see, and that's kind of an in- and-out with the with the school debt payment. Um, there is the percentage of the tax levy that ultimately gets proposed, which is, uh, I think the budget guidelines say at
least 10%. Um, so when you when we present you the plan, you'll see if it's 10% or 10.5%. Um, but there's that annual influx of uh levy dollars that is part of the town's financial policies to set aside a certain amount of tax
dollars every year for capital. Chapter 90 will be a funding source. I think it got pulled out last year, but we're going to put it back in because it's a big capital is a big funding source for road improvements. Um, and some of the fair share >> that's state dollars just for the
newcomers. That's that's state money. Yep. >> Yeah. and some of the fair, you probably heard about the fair share act and the money at the state. One way that's benefited Ammeris is they've increased our chapter 90 allocation. We don't know if it's permanently um but at least this past year went up three or
$400,000 from what its sort of normal level was. Um so you'll see chapter 90 as a funding source. You'll see other as a funding source, which is kind of a catchall for if we have a grant for a specific project. um ambulance funds
which from there's typically a little bit that we pull from well sometimes there's a little bit sometimes there's more if we're buying a new ambulance with the funding source is typically the ambulance fund which generates its money from uh billing for insurance but sometimes even small amounts for new
radios or um stretchers things like that you'll see on there that'll be funded from the ambulance fund and then um another one that we'll report to you is on old capital. So you know we fund these projects right they we set up a capital project fund the departments go
out and do the work and you know not always does uh is all the money spent completely. So we will report to you on all the capital projects that have been approved that are three years or older and that's sort of a rough estimate of what we've come up with is if they're still within three years they're still
kind of in the phases of spending the money. If it's three years or older it's worth getting an update or finding out whether that money can be returned. And so what happens with a capital project when it's done, if it has leftover money, the department head tells us that it's done, we close that out to something called a transfer reserve
that's within our capital project fund. And that money can only be um used via appropriation by the council through this through the capital process. So once a project is closed out, we can't just use the money for something else. It has to be reappropriated by the council. Um but we have used as a
funding source for the capital plant. So, if we know, for example, this year $200,000 is coming back from old capital projects, potentially we might just let that go to that reserve and leave it there as a potential funding source for future years if there's not an urgent
need or it could be used to fund a project um and basically increase a little bit above what we have available that year. So, so a bunch of funding sources. You'll see the breakdown in a minute. Um I'll just open up share the capital plan. Is that okay, Kathy? >> Yep.
So uh capital plan this gives a little bit from the charter um which discusses the capital plan table of contents gives a little bit of the timing and flow or here
uh I think this speaks a little bit to what you mentioned previously Bridget about how is the money kind of divvied up among different departments um and as I said like there's No, it's not like our operating budgets. Different uh buildings are used in different ways.
Some are 24/7, some are during the day, some have really big pieces of equipment that need to be replaced, but not all the time. So, it's never been like a there's a certain percentage that gets divied up to every department. It's really through this kind of prioritization process every year that
gets divvied up. Uh you'll see these are the meetings that we had last year. So, it's like there were one, two, three, four, maybe eight meetings. >> We started really late. So, you know, >> we're one day we're one day ahead of schedule, Kathy.
>> Well, yeah, but there was something canceled in there. You'll see that there's there's a a gap. All I know is we were racing because we were supposed to get this to the town manager sooner than we did. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's help that. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. So this sheet is
um an important sheet and I'll spend a little time just so folks understand it. So this is sort of a sources and uses type of table. So on the top are sources on the bottom are the uses and it's a summary of all the projects that you'll see on the following sheets. And the one
funding source that I didn't mention is borrowing which ultimately comes from taxation. But there could be projects that are proposed to come from a borrowing, which means that there would be no outlay of cash capital in the year it's being requested, but you would see projected debt come on in future years.
So just starting at the top, we put the levy information. So the levy limit plus the 2 and a half% allowable increase, whatever the estimate is for new growth to come up with a levy limit estimate. And then it's there's a it lags a year but we apply either 10% it looks like in
FY26 they did 10.265% of the prior levy for capital. So that is one source that's 6.6 million would be uh a source of funds. Then there's the debt exclusion and the debt
exclusion really again just lines up with whatever we are estimating for the annual debt. It eventually will be very fixed and locked down once we have bonded all the costs for the the school project, but we're still in the building phase. So, we've bonded some costs for the project, but there's it's still, you
know, we're still expending funds. So, there's not a um you see it kind of ramps up a little bit in future years. Um the good news is I don't think based on current costs and the current borrowing environment, we're going to see the debt exclusion get quite that high. So, that's good for taxpayers. Um,
but we'll know more exact information when we finally bond everything. Then if we pulled anything from reserves or capital stabilization, which we haven't generally done, you'd see that come in. Community Preservation Act, it's a little bit um confusing. So the
only thing that is required by law to come through the general fund, which is what this is, is the debt for CPA. So you won't see the CPA projects in here that were funded um sort of through cash in one year. The only thing that comes into here is the uh debt payments that
need to be made in that particular year. And it doesn't impact the plan. It it's uh in and out. Basically, we pull the money from the CPA fund. It comes in as a source and then that's used to pay the the bills for those projects. Um but it's required by the state to basically part of our general fund and that's why
it comes in. Comcast funding uh is we have a agreement with Comcast. It was a 10-year plus contract for them to do business in our town. Part of that was they were would give us $75,000 a year to offset the fiber project that we did several
years ago to expand fiber to municipal buildings. Um, and that agreement is actually coming to an end and we'll be discussing a new agreement in the future. And so that money basically comes in as a source to help reduce the to basically pay for part of the debt for the fiber
project that's down below. other is what I mentioned before, ambulance grants. Chapter um chapter 90 for whatever reason got pulled out in FY26, but you'll see it come back in and that'll be in that other section or actually sorry, chapter 90 will be in the state aid section right below that.
And then borrowing again is a funding source. So that's what goes into that is if there are any projects that are being proposed for borrowing, you'd see it show up in that borrowing row. So those are all the sources, Deb. Sorry. When when you divide like I'm
just looking at this year six the the cash capital um 6 million 6.6 million into 69.6 million. I don't get 10.26. >> No. Okay. So that's it lags a year. So we look at a prior year to apply that
percentage um so that we have more because the current year still has an estimated new growth number. It's not the um it's not an exact it's a budgeted figure. So it usually looks back one year. >> Okay. So the 10.5% in the FY27
>> is really based on the 69 million. >> And so the cash capital 70637 million divided into 69.6 million should be 10.5. >> Yeah, I can I can send you I don't it's it lags a year.
>> Okay. uh it goes to the last year that we know the exact levy. >> Um so I'll I can send you the breakdown exactly what those but but the just formulas that divide to get that percentage >> and and Deb that will change somewhat in out years because it's always working
off of actual as opposed to projected you know so it's got that lag so that if we were wrong on what we were going to get uh >> Oh you mean actual levy not actual expenses right? No, right. Actual levy. What did we actually get in money in the
levy? >> If new growth comes in better, then that increases every everything steps up based on how much better new growth came in. All right. Um, for each year, >> everybody, this is >> No, that's fine. No, that's a good question. Like, so of that levy information, all of it's pretty set in stone except for that new growth number.
That's really the only kind of unknown. That's a that's a budget or an estimate, >> right? Thank you. So the top uh again of the sources then the bottom. So we start by taking out any actual debt that we have. So these are projects that have been authorized
and approved from a borrowing um that have a debt payment budgeted. We sub then subtract any projected debt. So these are projects that are either being proposed um to be a borrowing or are somewhere on the plan and proposed
to be a borrowing. We factor that in just so we kind of have a complete 5-year plan and can see how even projected debt impacts the the long range. Um, and then it also includes an estimate for like uh short-term debt interest. So, if there's any projects where we have short-term debt where
we're not making a principal payment, but we need the money to while the project's being completed, it has an estimate for that. And then new projects would be basically the cash capital. So, that would be the projects that are being funded uh through cash. Then you'll see the debt exclusion. Uh
money that came in up above, it goes out. And then you'll see the other funding that's up above. It goes out. Again, those are all kind of ins and outs. Um and at least the gear that's being voted on has to be in balance. Um
I didn't build this capital plan, so I can't speak to the outy years and those very large deficits which give me a little bit of angst. Um, but yes, so that's that's how this sheet works. >> And just and just what what Sean just
said, if you look backwards to the year before last and the year before it, those out years were nearer to balanced. A few were out. And so this past time for a variety of reasons it was allowed to stay way out of balance rather than
we made a list of some things we thought could be weren't as urgent in the out years but they stayed in it. So just the one other thing the that borrowing is kind of a magic number. So in FY26 when
we voted to borrow the 1.1 million it doesn't show up as any cost in FY26 at all. So it allows the project list to be bigger than the total cash we have available for it because we're borrowing it, but it will hit the next year. will
hit FY27, you know, so it's a delayed pain, but it's uh thought through in terms of it's usually something big like our ladder truck that that's a a very large expense that so we try to limit the borrowing
because it's going to affect the capital we have available in the in the future year. >> Shauna, did I say it the right way? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's the incapable broom program now more than ever is really critical. Um because we you know when we were planning for the
four building projects and you know we decided to move forward with them. We knew once the debt for the library, the debt for DPW schools, all that started coming online, there was going to be a point in time where there was less funding available for other capital
needs because more of the the allocation for capital was going to be used up by debt. And so we're starting to get to that place. And so now more than ever like prioritizing the highest need projects um is going to be really critical because
again basically you can figure out how much is available for cash capital by taking that new projects row and then subtract the deficit at the bottom. Um that's how much you'd have to take out of those new projects to be in balance for those years. Um so it it's not out of whack with what we anticipated it
would be. Um, but we knew it was going to be leaner years once we started taking on the debt for these building projects, which you know is not um not something that's unexpected. So, Deb, >> I'm just going to leave my audio on.
Back in November 2024, as I recall, it seemed like the expectation was that the debt for those large projects was going to be about um $8 million. And that would leave about $2 million for cash
capital. Or was I not following that right? >> Um it I don't know what context you're that those numbers. It doesn't it doesn't sound like it's kind of like current year payments. Um 8 million sounds too high. >> Um
>> but but I'm I'm sure you know I'm sure you heard that. So I'm not >> No, I'm not. So did no Deb there was a point at which in terms of trying to modeling out if we really had a DPW and a fire station and they were happening in a fiveyear or eightyear and we were
taking on the debt how much was going to be left for everything else is exactly what you're remembering and everyone said that's too little you know you know we have to think so that's we don't two of those projects are still in everybody's imagination rather than in
reality yet uh fire station and DPW I that's the best I you know, they're they're still out, >> you know, so they're they're on um he can show you later. Uh they're on a if DPW was this much and it was financed with debt, this is what the cost of it
would be, but we haven't that's the out years. Andy, >> I guess I have two questions. One is looking at the borrowing line, it looks like it's all over, you know, it's 1 million, then it's 40 million, then it's 11 million, then it's 1.8.
Is that just a function of how many projects or or what stage projects are in or what? >> That was DPW jumping it up to 40. >> So that's a great segue to the plan itself. So this is the plan itself organized by um different departments
and location, the type of capital, so facilities, grounds, equipment, um a a brief description of the project, the funding source. So what you're you're noticing Andy is the borrowing. If you see borrowing in the um funding
source, it's in that row. So what's jumping it up in those years is 35 million for the DPW and then uh projecting that the fire station would be in the out years at 30 million. >> Um but you can go through this whole plan and see which projects have borrowing next to them. Um or some other
funding source. >> Great. And then my other question was how does the um you know if the in future years the the percentage is set at is listed at at 10.5%. Does that
get set by this committee or is that set by the the count the finance committee or the council or who? Ultimately, it's set by the council, but Paul proposes in his the town manager proposes in um his budget proposal his recommendation, but
the council theoretically could reduce a line or um >> so yeah, >> in our in our guidelines for the current year, Andy, we wrote in 10% to 10.5. Last year, it was written in as 10.5.
The town manager lowered it to the 10.2, to whatever you saw up there so that it could so he could free up money for the regional school, >> you know, so it was a decrease the capital side to increase the operating budget for the regional school. So there
is that that ca that was a change from what was in guidelines. So this year we we started out with an I guess we're going to see next week whether the choice was to go to 10% or stay near to 10, you know, or something in between because if we're lower on that share,
there's more for the operating budget side, you know. So that's kind of a we we we left we left that flexibility in the guidelines for for the town manager. I know in the past it's gone down. It went down much lower than that. It went
down to like 5% at some point and then I think >> yeah, >> we ran into some trouble because of that. But there is that trade-off between the operating budget and the capital >> and and when the council first came in, we were at eight with an aspiration of getting to 10. We went to 10 and a half when we when there was a decision to try
to do all four building projects. So it was in a reaction to what you're just saying. We'd sunk so low that uh roofs were we didn't have any money to do most of the capital needs. So we were building it back up and that was also in the select board and the finance
committee that the town council inherited had put the aspiration of getting to 10 in it in terms of you know can we get it up. Deb, >> one of the things I I'm still trying to put together is reading the um the
financial policies, financial management policies and objectives that is linked to the budget every year. I've never understood the whole um putting those large buildings in in the capital plan simply because it
says that that's not that's not what it's it makes sense to do in in the financial management policies and objectives. It just says that that's considered um it was founded on the premise that an allocation of 10% of the
levy along with the other sources has proved enough or almost enough to keep up with renovation and maintenance of existing buildings and also equipment replacement but not enough to cover significant new projects. So that's always been like a cognitive dissonance
for me. Is there like how do I understand? >> Yeah. No, I I've read that and I think that um I think that was from the older version of the policies, but um I think it's not wrong. I think in an ideal world, right,
we would have 10% plus all the money we need for new buildings. Um but there's limited resources and we don't have those those funding sources available to us. But I think I don't think it's wrong that you know especially when you look at this and the needs that are being presented like 10% would probably just
cover the needs we have set aside the new buildings. When you add in new buildings it really starts to compress the need and um yeah I don't think that's incorrect. >> That that's one of the reasons the development of these big buildings you know the biggies um has to be thought
interactively with everything else. So the the financial the finance committee charts just before the council came in had two of those buildings going out for debt exclusion
said we will never be able to do it just off of annual levy. So it didn't say which two but it could have been the library and the school the school and DPW. So the debt exclusion brings in that extra money. the school if the
school were still in here, there wouldn't have been room for anything else. So, we we didn't put the, you know, the school was uh pegged because of the size the the cost of the project. So, that is that is the beyond the annual levy that we're raising that debt
that debt exclusion because the uh the town share of that project, the 50 million would not have what you're saying is it doesn't necessarily fit. We can't. This shoe box doesn't fit in these. Uh the feet are too big to go into this shoe box. >> Yeah.
>> And the other thing that Paul always says, and he's right about it, is in an ideal world, we would replace a building every 10 years. If you look at how many buildings we have in town, you know, we have at least 10 buildings. And if you, you know, want a building age of 100 years roughly by the time you replace it, you'd have to replace one every 10
years. we went 30 plus years without doing any um replacement of buildings. And so that's why we're kind of, you know, that's why we're here um where we're trying to do three or four projects at once to catch up. >> Okay. >> All right. So, I'll keep going. So, again, these are last year's. So, you
can look through this. This um these projects, I believe, were all ultimately approved by the council and then they would all be set up with their own their own projects uh capital project accounts. And then we do a little write up. We
highlight which projects um help us achieve our sustainability goals or um you know reduce our emissions. Give a little bit information on our asset maintenance. Council Breick >> just a question on the projects. um just
kind of overall thinking about some cases where it seems like these things fit well into the definition of capital and what I understand capital to be and as it's stated in the beginning of this too but then in other cases it they seem
like recurring costs or even almost o like operating costs and so I'm just wondering about the how that happens and how a cost like trail maintenance or something like that winds up in here and and what the kind of plan is around are
those things. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Intended to be moved into the operating budget later on. >> No, it's a good question. Some of it's honestly legacy. It's it's how it historically has been funded and there's um and so you know if there was a a big
new acquisition of land that then required an large additional amount of trail maintenance support, it found its way through here. Um, and because the the timing of the trail maintenance and the nature of the trail maintenance is sort of inconsistent and is it's not necessarily something you'd want to have
in your operating budget because it's not spent evenly every single year. There's a lot of things like that where it may be that it's not spent evenly every year. So, you wouldn't budget sort of a recurring amount. Um, there's some few of those things in here. Um, I think the other thing you'll see in here that
maybe is a little bit different than the traditional definition of capital is like large consulting contracts or um large planning contracts. We've also historically done through capital. Um, but I'd say again in most of those cases they're things that if you budget them
in the operating budget, you'd have like one year where it went way up and then one year where it went way down. And so, uh, historically it's been funneled through capital to kind of address those one-time or infrequent um, needs. Okay. So even if it's not a tangible
thing if it is if it is >> it was like a one time consulting like one time study >> are eligible to submit those types of >> submit. Yep. >> Requests too. Okay. Yeah. >> Now you know Sean one I don't know whether uh conservation or is coming in
with any last year on trail m improvements they also got money from C community preservation act and I think we should crosslook at some of this that were because um the same question of did they even use up the money that they had
for the last several years. I mean because we don't see those two budgets. Um you know and and there was more money put in this year for signs you know just on a you know which bucket uh someone is dipping into if we don't
>> that's one of the reasons why we always kind of ask CPA to move go first um so that this group kind of knows to your point like what other what's been approved um or not not approved but what's been recommended by CPA. We won't know exactly what the council has approved, but to your point on trail
maintenance and signs, you're right. If there's those have got those there's a few projects that have lived on both sides and so that's why we move CPA up so that there was sort of a clear either it was funded here or it wasn't funded here when it gets to JCPC. >> Deb Deb and Bridget both have their
hands up. So, say for instance, the the school submitted a request for a one-time grant writer position, like a a year-long position. Would that fit under that? >> We haven't. Um, I'd say no. It's a
salary. So, we don't I'd say there are some guard rails that we haven't crossed. And I don't think we've ever funded salaries through um through capital. >> No, I'm thinking consultant, >> like a consulting contract to write a
grant. Um potentially I think this group should look at the you know the definition of capital and um >> and one example Deb might be that um when the town had money to do a look at
the in integrity and and repair needs of town buildings. They didn't do Crocker and there there was a process on assessing that. That would be something that could be asked from this capital fund if the schools didn't have the money for it. They did Wildwood for some
reason, even though that is not a long-term one, but they did all the major town buildings. So, that kind of a facility study could definitely be in here. Bridget, >> so I was just wondering if you could
explain a little bit more about the items that you've um highlighted in green and what the criteria is for them to be considered like obviously something like that storm water management like that makes perfect sense to me but I just wondered what's the criteria or
>> or for what gets put in that category. So there's um there's um so generally they're projects that again reduce emissions or contribute towards the sustainability goals of the town. Uh in the capital request form that we send
out to departments, there's a field essentially where departments can articulate whether their project request does that. Um so I'd say it's not like that necessarily. It's really just for communicating to the public some of the investments that are being made that um
help with our sustainability goals. Um but yeah, we get that information from the capital project request form. >> So a lot of times you'll see it in the vehicles. We didn't I think in FY26 Kathy, not a lot of vehicles were approved, but like if there were hybrids purchased or uh firet trucks with anti-
idling technology, um those things would get the green little leaf attached to it because they um help us achieve those goals. And that sustainability one that Sean has on the screen, the the rationale for those uh just Jill were
that if we do those studies, we can then get a grant for the weatherization and everything because the state sees we've already got a plan. If we don't have a plan, then we can't get the grant money. So, so Stephanie, our one person
sustainability department is actually keeping a good tab when she comes in to say because I had this money from the year before, I was able to get this money for, you know, name whatever the particular use was. So, it was it was an
interesting, you know, preunding money to do a repair or an installation that we couldn't have got unless we knew what we wanted to do. Um, and we don't have town staff who can do those. You know, we we're we're short staffed for for
those skills. So, I see Jill's hand is up again. >> Did that did that that answer every your question completely? >> I think so. I'm going to go back and read them all, but for now, yeah, thank you. >> Jill, is your hand up again? I just Yeah,
>> just one more question for Yeah, Sean and Kathy. just wondering if y'all could talk a little bit about the >> road repair reservicing piece of this um just history or any additional understanding around you know the things
in there do seem like recurring costs but I I see that the the chapter 90 comes into play the five-year pavement plan it seems like there's a lot going on there so I was wondering if you could just elaborate on how that works it's a large amount also >> yeah that's the biggest part of our
capital plan most years is our road investment. So, this is essentially the money that's being invested to to resurface roads. Um, and these are done through um large contracts with uh road repaving companies. Um so, essentially, however much money gets put in uh here
and in chapter 90, that's what Guilford and the DPW has to go out and bid out um what roads they're going to replace the following, you know, the upcoming summer or the following spring. >> So, they're in here because they're contracts. Yeah. Yeah. This is this one's capital in kind of the purest
sense of capital that it's it's a large million-doll contract essentially to replace um specific roads in town. Um roads are one of our biggest assets in terms of infrastructure, most expensive assets in terms of infrastructure. Um and so this is the money to replace
them. And I believe the town staff is working on a plan that they will present to the council with uh we need ideally we would have this much money a year and we can get this much money from chapter 90, we need this money from cash
capital, we need you know some amount of money otherwise. Um this the the very odd number here is 775665 which is a really weird number was when we when we knocked out a few other
projects we the original number was 500,000 we were able to put more on the road line. So we just literally put when in FY26 we just knocked out a bunch of projects and added another uh 175 665
that's you it in prior years it was as much as 1 million 2 million where vehicles and everything else were sacrificed so that we could do roads. I mean that's been one of the tough ones to figure out where the town is going to get the money for our roads. Andy
I I think you disappeared on you're muted. >> Okay. >> I assume that the um uh that chapter 90 was the lion share of the of the road repair money because um
I'd heard one estimate that's that's like each mile is basically a million dollars. Is that is that right? Yeah, it depends on what type of replacement you're doing. But um so >> if we're going down to >> Yeah. Sorry, Kathy. Go ahead. >> No, I just we're going down to dirt is
what as opposed to, you know. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So for many years, um there was not a lot of money put into roads in the capital plan. It was funded at $200 or $300,000 a year plus the chapter 90. um the select board and council in the last
five to 10 years have really prioritized investing in our roads and so those numbers have been elevated in you know the last five six seven years of capital plans you'll see Kathy's point some years it's been over a million or higher and then every year when we um get free
cash certified and we do free cash transfers you'll often see additional money for roads because uh we have 100 miles of roads or something like that. And um you'll get a actually probably in the not too uh distant future, Andy, you'll get a really detailed
presentation on the condition of our roads and the assessment that's done and um how we kind of rank compared to others and the the quality index of our roads and um and then how much of a backlog we have uh that need to be replaced or repaired.
>> Deb, is this still on roads? >> Yeah. Okay, Deb. So, I was wondering um it seems anecdotally that with climate change the um the roads get more of a variation in temperatures. It just seems
like they're worse in the spring the last >> 100%. The freeze thaw cycle is what really blows up the road. So, when you get snow and then it melts and then it refreezes, it gets into the cracks and then it pops everything out whether it's potholes or if there's cracks it'll make
them bigger. Um so the freeze thaw especially which is you know in the fall and in the spring you really damages the roads >> and is that exacerbated by climate change? I mean, we've had an unusually cold winter, but you prior
>> Yeah, I can't imagine it helps um for so um you know, having radical shifts where it gets really warm in the winter and everything melts and then it gets cold again and freezes is again that's exactly what you know contributes to the roads not being in great shape.
>> Oh, thank you. >> All right, so I'll just quickly go through the rest of this. This is a little bit of information on some of the different buildings in town and what we spend on maintenance. So, it's not not a request. It's just reallyformational um utilities and and vehicles supplies.
Uh we give you some information on the town buildings and how many square feet they are and um you know, hours of operation. Um and then the budget for maintaining them. And where else? Wait, here we go. Um,
this is the information on prior projects that have been approved that are older than 3 years. So, we'll give you a status update on all those projects. Um, so it'll be FY23 and older that you'll get an a status report. And again, hopefully some of
that will be money coming back that can be used for other capital projects. Uh this is just a little bit on project eligibility a little bit what we talked about before and I'll say these are again these are our rules you know our auditors um they do want to make sure everything's
capital but there is some flexibility within sort of the town deciding is something capital um but there are some lines that obviously you know something clearly is not capital at a certain point and then we give you inventory on our buildings and what condition they've
been sort of last assessed in. And then lastly, we give you vehicles. And um similarly, if it's highlighted green, it's uh essentially a hybrid or a um uh it's a hybrid or a vehicle that has some sort of uh high efficiency
technology. Like our fire trucks, we have anti-dolling technology in them. So, you know, the over time this we've seen more and more green come onto this report, which is good. And then if it's red, it means it's basically up for replacement. So, something that's being proposed in the plan would essentially
remove that. So, um would remove that. >> And Sean, will you be able to update? Some of these were missing mileage. Will you be able to update my >> Yeah, that's the hope. The departments are working on that right now for me. So, it may be that I give you a preliminary plan that doesn't have 100% completed, but hopefully by the end of
the process, you'll have it all before you make your recommendations and final your final report. Yeah, because you're right, some of these mileages are not complete. And then I think that is Oh, and then the last piece is debt schedule. So, I'll just reiterate um I said this at
the community preservation act committee, I'll say it here as well. Um we really have to be mindful about how much debt we take on. So sometimes debt can feel like a way to make it all work. Um but because we have the elementary school, we have the library, uh DPW coming up, other projects. Uh we do have
to be mindful of our overall debt load relative to our operating budget. Our bond rating agencies look at that percentage pretty closely. Um and we've always been in a really strong position with our debt. Um it's really contributed to our positive uh bond rating. However, we knew the time period
we're approaching, we're going to see that start to go up. And so we got to just be really careful about all these. It's easy to add up a lot of little pieces of debt, things that are relatively small and have small annual payments, but they add up when you have, you know, five, six, seven, eight of those. Um, so that'll definitely be a
focus of mine in terms of my recommendations and advice is um being really careful around any new debt. >> Deb, >> so that perfectly leads me to two questions. One was councelor Hanniki asked at some point why the region
always asked for borrowing instead of for smaller things just outright funding and I didn't have an answer. I mean I've just been on school committee for two years so I >> yeah so there's not a great the regional agreement doesn't give the region a lot
of options for funding capital outside of debt. um potentially, you know, somewhere down the road the regional agreements reopen, maybe there's more modern uh language. Things we've done in the past that I remember, you know,
historically would be um requesting basically in your operating budget, you'd have to request through the budget process a contribution into your capital stabilization fund. And then once it's in your capital stabilization fund, you that could then
be appropriated for capital that you wouldn't have to borrow. >> It's hard because you have to basically find room in your operating budget to make that request, but we've done that. That that's been done in the past. I think we did that a little bit with the track and field. We put some money into the stabilization fund to then use um or
to have some money set aside for the track and field, which um you know was many years ago. So the the beginning stages of it. So that is the only kind of advice I have around that is potentially figuring out a way to put more money into your st capital
stabilization fund that then could be appropriated for kind of on a cash capital basis. >> And Deb, just on that one piece, I know Mandy's got it on the list that if the regional agreement has to be opened up for things like the rent that Ammerst is
paying, you could you could put a clause that allows for cash capital. you know, in other words, that you could you could create permission so each time you want to do it, you don't have to go out for something special. Um, it just doesn't doesn't currently allow for that.
>> Okay. And then that lead there's another related question which is um when when we recently got a 10-year capital plan for the region um there's some big purchases on there and have they been
bit into this borrowing part because I mean as you say we can't really we sort of can but we can't force all the towns to do it but at the same time they're roofs and windows and
>> yes >> it's it's right here in front of you on the line the first few years match and then our outy years don't so that for for do you see regional capital assessment for region here >> under regional school it's just under
municipal debt exclusion >> so we we meaning Sean puts it into this table when we get that that those numbers from the region >> so I checked on your updated the 800,000 and this still is about right for
Ammerst. >> Okay. >> You know, so that that line will change, right, Sean? If it if >> Yeah. So, I think with Yes. And to to your point, Dad, the outears go up a lot more than that. Yeah. >> Um and so I think that that's always
going to have to be so when in the past when I've done this, I've projected the regional debt going up. >> I haven't projected it going all the way up to what is in the regional capital plan. Just like there's projects that come in on the town side that I don't just automatically put them on here as
because if we if we brought our number up all the way to what is currently on the regional capital plan, it would use up most of our money or most of the town's money. So, and and the reality is like projects are on there because, you know, because they need to be done that, you know, sometimes they get pushed back
when, you know, so that current debt can expire before new debt comes on. um you know there's a lot of planning that happens especially the farther out those projects are that moves it. So yes we're we're factoring in that the re the debt of the region or the plan that I'm working on now um is factoring in that
the debt of the region is going to go up in the outy years. However, there's still going to have to be a kind of that regular discussion that happens every year about how much is it going to go up because um you're right like the high school roof is a huge number. Um, I don't know if, you know, hopefully we'll
get MSBA money for the high school roof because that will make a big difference. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Andy. And then Bridget. >> Um, yeah, I'm I'm looking at the um municipal debt excluded and there's three lines for the elementary school
project and part three of three. There's nothing in any of the years. There's just a 48 million at the end. Oh, that that's so that's beyond the the FY 2031, right? >> Yeah. So that is um essentially that's the debt associated with different bonds
that have been taken out for the school. So we have two bonds right now for the school project. So the debt associated with those is defined. Um we know what the principal and interest payments are each year. Um I'm guessing that final piece is essentially like a catchall for the
remaining portion that will eventually have to be borrowed. um which will happen in the next year or so. >> And and just one thing on Andy, we've been borrowing on the the expenses that we're incurring, you know, with some
advance, but the project is currently running somewhat under budget. So the close out of that with the town is going to be very careful not to debt finance something that we don't have to finance you know you know so somewhere as we get
nearer to the end of the building which will be in two years we'll it'll be over we'll have a solid we'll we'll have a solid estimate of the actual cost you know the the closeout costs so the town has been however Sean
and and others have figured it out we've been borrowing on when we need to be borrowing. Um >> and >> yeah, we look at our cash flow. We're doing we're actually doing a b a borrowing um in a couple weeks or in a week. Um which will cover us for the
next year or so essentially till both of the big building projects are done. Um but to Cathy's point, we don't do all permanent debt. We use um short-term debt, which is why I have an estimate for short-term interest. Um and eventually we'll only permanently borrow
whatever our final amount is. Um the tough the tough part with the MSBA is like the close out process with the MSBA can take years. So there's going to be a portion of the MSBA reimbursement that we might not get until 2 years after the project is done. And so again, we have
to essentially have the money to cover um what we need to cover until we get the final MSBA reimbursement. Um but yeah, we work with a financial adviser to essentially model all this out and time our time our borrowings. And then as far as the the four big projects that were envisioned, you know,
some years ago at the time, I think there was some hope that one of them could be paid out of reserves or something and so that we wouldn't have to borrow for all of them. Is that is that still what we're trying to do or >> That's my hope. Um I don't know if it's everybody's hope. That's my hope. Uh we
have 12 million in the capital stabilization fund. If we get the investment tax credit for the elementary school and we get rebates um that are expected on the elementary school, you know, that could be up to another 5 million, four or five million coming
back um to the town. So that would, you know, increase that capital stabilization up to 17 million and our estimate for a fire station budget is somewhere between 20 and 30. Um so in other words, like we're not that far off from being able to do that. Um, but
ultimately that's a town, you know, a council town manager decision. >> Yeah, I I guess that's that's one thing we hear is why are we racking up these huge reserves while, you know, while the operating budget, you know, particularly for the schools is is under pressure and
so is is that still the way to go? Yeah, I mean that's why because when we model out the fire station, let's say we were going to borrow for the fire station, it it elbows out that much more um of what's available for capital. And the
interest piece of that is another large amount of interest that would essentially take away from other sources. >> And this allows us to sort of do the fire station at a pace that the town can can work towards it, right? It gives us a goal that we can work towards. Um, and
so basically it gets done when the money is available. Um, or there could be a phased approach where um, maybe parts could be started earlier and then um, if there's a way to phase it in. >> Uh, Bridget and then Deb,
>> I guess my question depends. Where are we in the agenda? We still on review fiscal 26 plan or are we moving on to timeline and process? We are at the tail end of review the FY26 capital plan. >> Okay. My question for the next part
>> and and we do have two things that we have to I I forgot to look at the agenda but we have to choose what day and time we're meeting. So we have today's slot and uh our committee takes its own minutes and I'll take the minutes for
today but in the future everyone has to think of volunteering for minutes. Um, so just to keep those two things in mind, we don't need to do anything today on minutes. We don't have a minute taker and the minutes are really useful for
the final report. Um, Deb, so this is I'm not sure where this fits in. It's sort of a tag followup to Andy's question. never figured out why the capital stabilization is not larger than
it is because if we if we have the surpluses if you look at the surpluses year after year after year and how much is moved in there it it seems like it should be larger. >> So there's typically annual appropriations for other things that
reduce how much can go into the capital stabilization fund. So, in most years there's been additional appropriations for roads. Um, I think last year there was an additional appropriation for the Bangs Community Center to um renovate and do code updates and accessibility
updates at the Banks um community center. Um, so the basically that not everything not every dollar of the surplus goes into capital stabilization. There's always other appropriations that are considered. So for the most part,
whatever after pre-cash is certified, whatever gets moved into the capital stabilization stays there. But we we also we took five million out because uh a counselor proposed taking five million
out for the school uh for the new school and that would lower the amount we had to raise from the taxpayers with the expectation that we would get the money back from the federal government because of geothermal and solar. So there was literally another when S taunt says 12,
we would have had at least 17 plus because it would have been using but it was moved over on an appropriated line for the new school. >> But for the most part, aside from that, whatever gets moved into capital stabilization after the dust
settles with free cash has remained there. >> Yep. Yeah. I think that's the only big that's the only major appropriation I can recall. Okay, >> thank you. >> And I will just let this group know um and I'll and I'll connect with Shannon
and the schools, Deb. Um we are applying for a green school works grant which uh there's a you can anybody can apply well any municipality can apply for them but um they have a new wrinkle where you're allowed to essentially apply for funds
in anticipation of the investment tax credit. And so because there's a little bit of uncertainty for communities about the investment tax credit. Um and so you can apply for it. I don't know if we'll be awarded, but if we were awarded, the program also allows you to then
potentially if you get the grant and then you also get the investment tax credit to then request permission to roll that money into a different sustainability project um in in the town. And we're looking at like Cracker Farm, just so this group knows, we're looking at Cracker Farm and some of the
work on the roof and making it solar ready and the HVAC system and all that. Um, so it wouldn't, you know, there would still be a capital need here, but it would potentially help um address some of the energy efficiency pieces there. Uh, so cross our fingers that we
get the grant and that we also get the investment tax credit. So the idea is you get if you get the grant and the tax credit you get to keep both of them. >> Yeah. Well, the the way it's worded is like there's that they will consider
allowing you to roll it towards other projects. And so our grant application is very explicit about we want to roll it to Crocker Farm um and to either geothermal or roof enhancements for solar or something along those lines. >> Thank you. So, we won't know
unfortunately for sure. The the tax credit is likely like 2028. Um potentially I think that the actual tax year that we would know for sure, but um but it's at least like a potential on the horizon.
>> Okay. But didn't you say that if the capital stabilization had the money that you had taken out in anticipation of getting the credits back, then it would be 17 million and that might go a long way to the fire station. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, if we get
the investment tax credits from the federal government, that money can go back into the capital stabilization. Then we would have this grant money. If the grant gets approved, again, this is big if. um if the grants was approved, we'd have the grant funds which ultimately need to be put into a sustainability project. And so that's
why we would request the permission to roll it towards Cracker Farm. >> We we lucked out with the school um that we're in the window where geothermal is still completely covered and solar is covered for as long as you started on it
in this year. And for a while both kilowatt hours were joined at the hip and there was a maximum unless you did certain things and they severed them. So we're more certain that we're going to get credits for both and it's it's the credits for the two are a substantial
amount of money which is how I argued for the 5 million originally but it's potentially a little bit more than five. >> Got it. >> Yeah, we we've done the math Kathy on the latest. We think it I I think the credits are likely lower based on our
work with the we have a the >> as a consultant, but if you add in the rebates from the geothermal, there's huge rebates from Eversource for the geothermal. I think that gets us to the five or potentially a little over it.
>> So I will stop sharing and we can talk timeline and process. So, so we have I had asked Sean and he said we're going to make a as a group discussion right now. We're we're meeting today. It's a Wednesday and we
started at 5. Does that time work would earlier be better like earlier like 4:00? Um and Sean I don't know in terms of departments because Sean will know when he's bringing departments. So in the
past once we've settled on the day we're meeting and the time Sean tells us in advance you know next week will be police and fire or will be DPW will be schools and so we'll know which projects in advance are coming to us and then he
just puts them in the packet for the week. So people have to kind of remember to look at the packet. So but we have to pick a time and it's typically a 2-hour meeting. Um, so Sean, you threw out times to people and this time worked for
this week. So I don't know um looking forward whether a whether this is a good time slot because it would mean 5 to 7 and I don't know how that works for people in their lives. Um whether earlier in the day would be better and I don't know whether
Wednesdays work for people. So, this is a group. I mean, we could live with this time slot. It worked for today. And Sean, I I I know you had to quickly set it up. You gave us Thursday slots and and Wednesday slots. Um, >> Wednesdays were the the better. I think
both times on Wednesdays were free for most people, but I don't know if that still holds true. >> Yeah. Know, so I don't Andy, I know you're on CRC and it meets on Thursdays from 1 to 3. Um but in any case, so I'm basically asking um is a Wednesday a
good day and would people is five o'clock a good start time or would you prefer it somewhat earlier? >> On the Wednesday versus Thursday. Um, I know we have our budget hearing and another like the Thursdays for school
committee are booked like coming forward and in terms of time like five works well for me because that's when work ends. So >> So Bridget, are you saying Wednesdays at fives are good for you? >> Yes, exactly. >> So let's just say Wednesday is a good
day and so then the question is time slot. >> Wednesday at five is great for me. Me too. >> Me too. >> Okay, Lee, >> it's fine for me, but not next
Wednesday. But >> so if people have to miss a meeting, it's fine. Or, you know, if they can only come for part of it. We're posting we're posting the videos pretty quickly every year. I mean, every week. So they get up and you can watch the meeting if
you didn't hear the discussion. So it would be good to try to if you mess miss a meeting watch the video of the discussion. Um particularly if it's a day that we have big projects you know um and and so so Wednesdays at 5 and
five it'll be it will be 5 to 7 in general because we we usually need two hours. Okay. So Sean and then Sean, I don't know whether you've thought through yet what your sequence will be. Um like who will who will we see next week?
>> So um so next week I'm just looking at the process the last year's calendar. Well, next week you'll get the presentation on the actual plan. Um and then let me see.
>> Sorry. Are we meeting every week? >> Yeah. Yeah, we will be meeting that's we will be meeting every week. So that's I just wanted to uh clarify, you know, so people can put in their calendar. And I think we met one more week than we needed to last year because a meeting
failed to get posted. So we had to skip a week or something happened that we were >> um so as Sean said, it's typically about six weeks to cover. Well, we do main plan, then we do departs,
and then we have a time to the the report. If people haven't seen the JCPC report, I can make I can give you the link to it. So, the the the original writing on the report is mainly around which projects we didn't agree with. we
recommended they be deleted um um or had questions about them and any topics that uh the resident capital proposal has been a piece. So the other thing that has happened just so people know is that because Shawn is in the middle of this
and reporting back to the town manager on a regular basis one year we didn't end up having to recommend against any projects because they had already been removed. you know the discussion around them was negative enough in terms of people not receiving so it didn't become
this was proposed and we recommended against it we could say that the town manager readjusted it along the way so they were there was an adjustment that was constantly looking at trying to get to zero you know the balance budget not zero so so Sean I interrupt you so we do
the you'll give us >> yeah I'll have to look at department um now that we have the date and the time I've got to work with departments and kind of place Um, so next week will definitely be the five-year plan will be, you know, we we'll share that and then there'll probably be one department
that will come and start sharing their projects. But I got to I got to talk to some department >> and then you'll be able to tell us next week in the following weeks the sequence of >> Yeah, I'll book I'll schedule it out and then share the schedule with everybody. >> Okay, Deb,
>> so when would the latest last meeting be? Well, if you do six weeks out, let me take my calendar if if we can if we can be super efficient. So, we're on the 11th. So, one one two three
four five six March 18th would be 6 weeks. We might need the 25th to to do the report. >> Okay. >> So, it won't I don't think we need to go in April. Ideally, we won't go into April. Yep.
>> And so if you put a hold on your calendar and and Sean, I think when you were here two years ago, you put a hold on our calendars going forward. We >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll create a recurring and uh I'll create a recurring Zoom link. So it'll be the same Zoom link for every
meeting. Um and we'll put a a hold in your calendar that has a Zoom link information. Um so yeah. Yep. We'll do that. >> Lee, >> well, I'm looking at my calendar. March 18th, I have a trustees meeting at 400
p.m. >> How long do they typically go? >> I don't know. >> Usually about an hour or so. >> Whatever. Figure it out. It it it'll it'll be fine. >> Yeah, we can reschedule. I mean, if there's any reschedule, we can pivot.
you know, if if there's several people, if you look at your calendars when you come back next week, if several people have a conflict with the same day, we could definitely reschedu if it's just one person and it's not at final report. Um, >> we can be
>> we could also move it to six o'clock. >> You know, we could start a little bit we could start a little bit later to make sure people can make it. >> I think Bridget, I think one or two of the meetings you could only be there at the beginning or at the end of a meeting. I think that's fine too if
people's schedules crunch up against them. One of the veran uh Eugene. >> Yeah. Um I'm I'm good with all the weeks. Next week I might be a little bit late. We'll be coming back from um some college visits. So there's a chance that
I'll be I'll be late, but I there's no real decisions happening next week. So I could always watch the the presentation just to kind of throw. Other than that, I'm fine except for any potential uh library trustee meetings that Leah mentioned.
>> And and then if people also look at their schedules in terms once next week when Ton tells us what departments are going to be when um volunteers for minutes and uh the minutes I will give you what minutes look like. There's kind
of a format for them um that's pretty I think pretty easy. it follows the agenda and it's not minutes that say who says what. It's just picking up a sense of the group. Um if there were any issues we encountered and and as as Sean said
if we have questions in advance um it's great and you can't have questions in advance of something that you haven't seen but as we get into the process um because the departments are pretty good good at coming in with at least responses to them. Um, so, so
Sean, I know one in advance for Jeremiah is going to be we've been he's the town facilities person. He's been getting some pretty big chunks of money and we asked him what he had spent it on and he didn't have a respon and actually it turned out he hadn't spent any of it
last time. Um, whereas sustainability came back with she told us exactly what it had been spent on. So, I just think it would be good where we've done those more generous um sense of what they're going to spend it on that people should
be prepared to say what it was spent on or it wasn't used. But he it and it just so people know it was $500,000. So, it was enough money that um you wanted to know if it had been used. Andy,
>> just since we're doing our own minutes, um I'm just coming out of the charter review uh committee and we found it very useful to get a trans get a transcript of the Zoom transcript of the meeting afterwards and then you can just either
scan it or run it through AI and you can get a pretty quick um minutes uh out of that process. So, if we can get the trans the Zoom transcript, um >> we get we if we're meeting Wednesday, usually the town has it no later than
Friday and so the um and I get notifi I can get it earlier and if I know who the minute taker is, you know, so you can be looking at it right away. And our format is just a little bit like up at top it's who was there and who wasn't and then
the agenda items and what happened under each agenda item and then with a link to the Zoom meeting and a link to the packet. So it's a pretty it's uh it it also just helpful that people can follow where to what day was what thing >> sure
>> discussed. Um but that's great. I think Zoom has been a big asset for uh quick minute taking. >> Yeah. >> So, um I think Bridget. So, now that we're talking about
timeline and process, I just wanted to circle back and um well, and I just first I would agree with Andy that once the transcript's up on YouTube, like the the video's on YouTube, it will make you a transcript and then you can just plug that into Cathy's formula and AI and,
you know, read it over and make sure it's accurate because it might say that Bridget's a llama or something, but otherwise, you know, should be good. But um just overall before we like start the train starts rolling, I want us to like
as a group set some rules and standardizations of the process from my perspective on the school side in a way that feels like it would be more transparent and fair. Like when we look at that chart and it says 16% for the
schools, 18 84% for everything else and I don't see the library at all. And from the school's perspective, we have all this deferred maintenance, all these things that haven't happened. And I just want us to be like making the progress overall so it doesn't weigh so heavily
one way or the other or frankly so that when my constituents come to me which they do frequently on maintenance upkeep cash capital issues I can say hey I'm on JCPC and this is what we're doing in that direction. So, I'd love to see like
that five-year cash, not the plan, but like the last five years. What have the percentage been from G JCPC for these last five years? And what do we think is a is a fair percentage to ask the town
to look at for that going forward. And similarly, I think an overall plan versus vehicle. So, we're not just saying, "Oo, I like Guilford's new loader. It looks shiny and new." or I love the way those police cars are now Jeeps or pickup trucks or whatever. Like
that's great, but like do we have a rule? I remember last year the bus that my son had driven to the ski mountain on was 20 years old that's lost its tire. It was over 200,000 miles and then people were coming in with three year old 50,000
vehicles. So maybe we can make like a a vehicles policy. So we're not deciding. I don't want anyone from the departments coming before us and having, you know, it's tough for them and for us because I feel like the process gets very
subjective at that point. But if we had some set rules and some standardization, I think it would the process wouldn't just feel like the train's rolling and we have to go where the train is, if you know what I mean. So on on vehicles, um, one person who is not even on the
council anymore, he had offered to work with the town on a vehicle policy, like you've just said, Bridget, on when is it replaced, and we talked about at the point the repairs for a particular vehicle are getting higher than the purchase price of a new one, you know.
Um, just something on mileage. So Sean, I know you you told me you're going to be really tough on vehicles this year. we had but but just we we didn't have a sense that the same screen was applied to the police vehicles, the school vehicles, the uh the DPW vehicles and
then the question on DPW has always been there an awful lot of vehicles on their lot and Guilford had said well some of them we use as spares you know um but you know just trying to get a handle on if you look at who's got vehicles uh
there's one department that has a lot of them and it's uh lots and you see it in the vehicle list. Um so >> can I respond to um so we can certainly um you know bring the historical
kind of divian up of um of project department uh capital requests. Um the only thing I'll just say is like we can only kind of evaluate what gets requested. Um, so I know you you've looked at like how much uh was allocated
to the schools last year. I don't know. I wasn't here but I don't know Kathy maybe you remember did were school projects red like eliminated or reduced >> in the time I've been on which other than the first year of the council I wasn't on. We have never turned down a
school proposal for a capital project. There's been some decisions on an electric bus versus a hybrid bus and how are we going to afford them, you know, and we came up with the leasing policy that the elementary school came up with and we all decided leases could be
called capital which was a stretch but we all decided that would be fine and we could preund it but it's uh and so Shannon for Crocker there are a lot of lists on Crocker and last year we asked her are these specific speific, are they
the right amounts? And she was brand new and your facilities director was brand new. So the answer was um needed to firm them up. But there hasn't been the the projects that have been cut back on our vehicles. Um and the reason you don't
see the library on is the library agreed since it was about to redo the whole building that they wouldn't come to JCPC for a while. So it it came only for computers, you know. So the library hasn't been on on a line item for a while. If you go back a bunch of years,
it was on, you know, so it it the the it's been driven by um capital proposals. Without a capital proposal, project proposal, Sean can't bring it to us. >> And some of that is driven by capacity,
too, right? There's only so many projects that any of the departments can >> complete in a in a particular year. So >> Deb, >> Kathy, you said you haven't turned down any requests by the the schools and that you did decide that the leasing of the
electric buses counted as capital, but I see um two expenses, two things on the Ammerst public schools. One for um one for electric school bus and char
charging infrastructure and one for SE buses. And I don't see that on the packet that I believe is what Sean put in in the in today's packet. So, I'm a little confused about that one.
>> But for last last year, we didn't I don't think we the the leasing did charging and a few other things. It was a nice leasing package that you brought that that the schools brought and we actually increased the amount that was allocated
for the sixth grade move beyond what Shannon had asked for. >> I see that Deb, it's at the end in the vehicle section. So if you go to No, it's not. >> So there's there's 200,000 for charging infrastructure and 250,000 for vans. >> Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. >> So my memory could be wrong, but in the
>> No, it's there Kathy. >> No, no, that is that's exactly matches. Thank you, Sean. >> Y >> yeah. So, I'm just saying that in the time I've been on, the things that have been pushed off have been Poppers Pond being redone. Um, an additional amount for some of the other pieces, the some
playgrounds are penciled in. And Sean Sean, the one thing you didn't talk about, and maybe you can just show it to us next week, is what Sean started doing, and you'll see it in three years ago, capital Plan. He had, what did you call it? It's it's in the waiting. it's
in the waiting >> parking lot or waiting. So large projects that we can't fund right now. Uh but we don't want to like make them disappear. We want people to know that they're out there and that they're you know departments have requested them or identified them as a need but that
there's just no clear funding source and it's not hasn't been prioritized as um above other projects. So if you look at FY27, 28, and 29, what you'll see why it's in such deficit is
there's over $5 million for Puffer's Pond, various parts of it. And none of us thought we could do it unless the state we got a big grant. So we didn't do it in this parking lot way, you know. So I'm just saying that the JCPC, especially our group, we can only look
at the proposals that have been made. if they haven't been made, uh, they can be talked about for the next year. So, next week you'll see that initial table that Sean just showed you, but now it'll start with the year FY27.
So, how much money is available in FY27 and a better sense of what the debt is and then the project list uh that's being proposed. And usually you're coming in with a five-year list as well, but the focus is on the project list. So
that will all come to us, including whether we're getting whether we're looking at 10% or 10.5 or something in between in terms of the share of uh the the levy. So, if there's not anything else, it's
6:41 and we said this would be an hour and a half, so we're only a little bit over, which is great. Um, is is there a sense of ready to adjourn? >> Um, you might want to We have some members of the public. I don't think we check for public comment.
>> Thank you. Public comment. And they we do have public. Does anyone in the public if you would like to make a comment or raise a question uh please do and we won't be responding to it but we will take note of your question. Raise
your hand if you would like to say something. Don't see any hands. So the record we there are two people and just so people who are listening we are putting these zoom meetings up and the packets will be
under JCPC so you'll see the proposals and Sean I'm assuming in the Jones library building schedule you'll have an updated cash flow for the town to the best as you know it on on our debt and interest on it.
>> Yep. So then we we've taken to uh voting to adjurnn. So I'm I'm making a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? >> Second. >> And I will put it quickly to a vote then just to make sure we're all in agreement
that we're adjourning. Kathy say yes. Jill >> yes. >> Eugene >> yes. >> Andy >> yes. >> Bridget >> yes. >> Deb >> yes. >> Lee >> yes. So, thank you all. It was a great
first meeting in terms of trying to get us all on the same page. See you next week. Bye-bye.