So, thank you. Uh, I'm officially calling the J the I'm sorry, the BCG meeting, budget coordinating group meeting to order on November 13th at 12:02.
I'm going to check first to make sure that members of the school committee and regional school committee can hear and be heard. Deb, >> hi. Good morning, afternoon. Um, Rhodess, >> good afternoon. >> And Anna Herd,
>> I'm here. Yep, >> I'm here. >> And from the library, uh, Nat Larson, >> yes. >> Sharon Cherry, >> here. >> Okay. And from the council, councelor Hani, >> present. >> Andy Steinberg,
>> here. >> Anna Develin Gothier, >> present. >> Lynn Griezmer is present. And then I want to also check Paul Blackman >> speak here. >> Uh Shannon Sean Mangano >> here.
>> And Shannon Bernachi. >> Can you hear? >> Hi Shannon. Thank you. Uh did I hit did I did I get everyone? Yes. All right. We're going to start with um just two relatively uh well-known pieces of
information, but we felt it would be useful to um have a um mini presentation of the um town manager financial guidelines uh that I mean sorry financial indicators that we presented
to the town council on November 3rd. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Paul and Sean. Paul, do you want me just to jump right into it? >> Yeah. Yeah, just do it. Yeah. >> All right. Can everyone see that on their screen?
Okay. >> Now we can. >> Okay. Good. Um, so we're presenting this Monday night. I don't we probably won't go through all the um sort of the the context pieces of it, but um Paul, do you do you want to talk about takeaways
or just go right to the numbers? >> So I Yeah. So I think uh if everyone here was at the Monday night presentation, it's just a a reminder of the challenges that we're facing uh the accomplishments which and that we have a
good solid found financial foundation. But I think the big things facing us is uh the recognition on the pressure on taxpayers uh that we have had a long-term plan to meet our obligations to build our major capital projects which we're trying to stick with. Um and
that we all are anticipating all three entities or or four entities are anticipating a major increase in health insurance and that's that continues to be confirmed. We we do have a meeting this afternoon that might we might get a little more guidance, but I think it's it's just going to confirm everything.
>> Good. >> All right. So, um go ahead for a moment. When we speak of all four entities, we mean the town, the library, the regional schools, and the elementary schools. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Um so, this is what we presented at the financial indicators. I haven't changed it. Uh we did talk about this these numbers at finance committee um yesterday and there are a few changes that we did update this and I'll just it didn't overall change the net result but
I just want to highlight some of those changes. So the first one is we updated in the FY26 column the estimate of new growth where at 650. We have that figure now um it's 390 for FY26. So we've updated that number and sent it out to
the committee. What that does is it just lowers the base uh for FY27. So by having lower new growth in 26, that starting base levy for 27 um is lower by the same amount. So that's a negative. It went down. Uh so it has a negative
impact on on the budget projection for FY27. Um on the positive side, under local receipts for motor vehicle excise tax and hotel, motel, and meals excise, I found sort of a glitch in the way the the projection was work working for the average. and I fixed that. So that
actually brought those estimates up about $200,000 in total. So that's a positive. The net impact of both of those updates to the projection for next year was about $50,000. Um a little bit to the, you know, increase in our budget
gap by $50,000. So not a huge impact overall, but um just wanted to make sure the group is aware. So, I won't go through all these again, but if there's questions at the end, we can talk through these, but we we went through them in detail uh yesterday at finance committee. >> For those of us not on finance
committee, Sean, the difference on the estimated growth, is that due to the fire? >> No. No, that has nothing to do with the fire. That's just related to um the new because that's that was affected a property that was already in our base tax levy and we and that will come out
of our overlay for this year. Um and then depending what happens it'll in fact impact the distribution of taxes in future years but um it doesn't impact new growth. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Uh so the um actually I I want to one
caveat um the new property that was being built there >> that doesn't that would impact future that could impact future new growth. So it doesn't impact the number you see here necessarily for FY26. But let's say that property was on track to be fully
constructed, you know, sometime in the next three, four, five, six months. That would have um impacted next year's new growth. And so that, you know, that is a negative impact. And if that's not back on track and built in the same time period, which I I don't think we expect
it will be, um that next year's new growth could be lower as lower than it would have otherwise been if that property had been brought online. >> Does that make sense? >> Yes. Okay. Uh, so going to the Anna has a question. Oh, sure. >> Anna,
>> what's your fiscal year? >> Oh, our fiscal year, um, July 1 to June 30th. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And the timing of property is a little bit different. Um, and I don't have the assessor here with me, but there's some dates that go by July 1st, and there's some dates that go by
January 1st when it comes to uh the timing of when you capture the value of the property. Um, so but our our regular fiscal year is July 1 to June 30th >> and we're in fiscal year 26 right now. >> Correct. Yep. >> Okay. >> So going to the expense side. So our
initial uh forecast for next year is three and a half% increases to operating budgets. The you know one of our conversations at finance committee was there's a little more risk this year. where, you know, we are being a little more we're we're we're tightening up our estimates a little bit. Um, as you
could, you could see on the prior slide with the increase to local receipt revenues estimated for next year. The downside of doing that is if there is some, you know, unforeseen event, especially, you know, at the state level is sort of where most of my concern is. Um, that there's less wiggle room to to
maintain this 3 and a half%. So as of right now, the goal is to maintain this three and a half% but just know that there is some some risk to that if something at the state level were to occur and when I say that if you know if the state's funding for mass health or something else was significantly impacted and they needed to pull
resources from somewhere else um that could trickle down to us in a way that's uh not uh you know not getting as large of an increase in unrestricted general government aid or smaller increases in chapter 70 or something like that. So just be aware of that. On the capital
side, um we're projecting the 10 and a half percent of the levy still. This includes um the first year really of payback on the library. It's still estimate at this point because the costs aren't final, but um the impact of that debt starting
to hit is that there's less funding for other capital. So that's just something that we'll have to work through with department heads, including the schools, um is that our cash capital is going to start going down. Then uh question Lynn. >> Yeah. Uh how many payments have we
received from for the library? >> Three >> of the six >> of the six. Yeah. Or five plus the the increase. Yep. >> Thank you. Um, and we're expecting potent the timing of the next two, and I don't know if Sharon
is here, but the timing of the next two is a little unclear. The way the MDLC's rules are around making one payment a fiscal year, but sometimes if they have money, they might make two. You know, there's um, so it's a little bit unclear exactly the timing of the next payment in particular. But
um so then the assessments we're projecting a 4% increase under miscellaneous in our retirement assessment. This includes the elementary schools includes um it does not include the um region. It does include the library I'm pretty sure but it doesn't include the region. They get their own
separate assessment. Um we will have an exact number on this in the next week or two. They have every November they release their funding schedule which includes the appropriations. So, you know, there's some hope that this comes in a little bit lower, but it it also
reflects. So, there's lots of members of our retirement system and the way they divvy up the cost each year is based on your aggregate salaries. So, if our aggregate salary stayed flat, but another, you know, a bunch of members in the system went down, then we would become a bigger slice. Even if the
overall increase that the system needs is not that great, if we become a bigger slice of that system, then our cost could go up. if we become a smaller slice of that system, if another, you know, district, another community is adding a bunch of staff and we're staying flat, then maybe our slice could shrink a little bit. Um, but 4% is
roughly what the overall system cost is going to is expected to go up. Um, and then how that's divvied up, we won't know for the next week or two. >> Lynn, >> it am I correct that last year this was the thing that we ended up not having this higher percentage on?
>> Yeah. So, this came in about zero or flat last year. And again, I'm I haven't dug into why that is, but my early guess is that it was related to that split that I was talking about, the slice, because I don't think the I think the retirement system did increase its
collections. I don't think they stayed flat, but we could have become a smaller slice of it. Um, and that might have offset what the increase would have otherwise been, but I've got to dig into that a little more. But yes, you're right. That's where it came in closer to flat last year. Thanks.
>> And really by last year I mean I think for FY24 to FY20 um I'll double check. I think it was FY24 to FY25 where it was flatter. >> Yeah. >> Uh for OPED we're projecting a $50,000 increase. So what we've tried to stay on
the schedule of um incrementally increasing our OPED contribution. um this is still not covering the costs that we would otherwise put towards it if we wanted to kind of keep um you know fully fund our you know obligation and fund it within a certain number of years. There's actuarial schedules that
tell us how much we should put aside for that but we are chipping away at it. Um even though it's not fully where where it should be. Um so you know right now this assumes that we would do another $50,000 increment up. And that plan is important that we do try our best to stick to a plan for funding OPED because
that is something that impacts um you know when our bond rating agencies look at us they look at how we're funding OPED our auditors look at our our OPED funding plan and if we're making progress um and that can impact our financial statements
and then sorry unappropriated uses at the bottom. So these are things like state aid uh and then some of the things that again just don't they don't get appropriated the how much we set aside for abatements and exemptions things like that which is pretty um consistent from year to year. So right now on the
sheet you'll see that the deficit is at 230 again after I made those adjustments that I mentioned it's about 300,000. Any questions on the expense or revenue projections before I go through a couple more slides? I don't see any hands.
>> Okay, so these are just a couple slides that we did last year at this kickoff meeting. I'll just I'll do quickly again. These are operating growth revenues as a percentage of operating revenues. Um this kind of gives us a sense of how the local economy is doing in Ammerst. It goes to 2025. Um during
COVID, we saw a dip. Um and then it has bounced back up. These are things like building permits, uh, new growth, uh, motor vehicle excise tax, things that are related to construction or or, um, purchasing activities in the community. So, it's not, you know, it's not at a
peak or a high point by any means, but it's back up to where it was around the same level precoid. >> Deb Leonard, >> hi John. I asked about the slide at financial indicators. Um, >> could you give another shot explaining
to me what >> I mean you just did but I still don't quite understand what an operating growth revenue is as to this >> standard 3 to 4% that we we hear. >> So our um general fund budget is has to
be supported by different revenue sources, right? And so going back to I'll go back here. So the four major sources of revenue are um property taxes, local receipts, state aid, and other financing sources. So those have to balance when we build our budget. That's why we present them together. And
the economic growth revenues live in this local receipt section. So this local receipt section is not the biggest part of our revenues. It's actually, you know, one of the smallest. Um but this is the section of our revenues that is perhaps the most volatile. Um, our
property taxes grow by two and a half percent generally every year. State aid generally grows two to three% every year. Um, other financing sources kind of we dictate, the council dictates by what it wants to appropriate, but local receipts is really driven by activity in
in Ammerst in the community. Um, and the ones that we flag as economic growth are ones that we feel like are more tied to economic activity. So, you know, an example of something in local receipts that is not in that economic growth um figure is departmental revenues. So,
like the recreation department collecting fees for youth soccer, that's not part of that because that's not we don't really view that as economic growth or economic activity. Um but building permits, um motor vehicle excise tax, which you know is somewhat
reflects what type of um car purchasing is going on in the community. the higher that goes could reflect that there's more new cars being purchased or more cars in in general. Um new growth which is related to construction. Those are really the big ones that are in there. There's a couple other little ones but
those are the the big ones that are in there. So what we look at is what percentage are those economic growth revenues of our total revenue picture. So of the you know 103 million here for FY26 what percent are those economic growth revenues? And the
theory is if those are growing that would mean that our economic growth revenues are grow are doing well and are becoming um you know a greater portion of our budget and maybe taking some pressure off of other areas of the budget. If they're shrinking it might indicate that other areas of the budget
are having to pick up the slack um for those. Does that make more sense Deb? Explain that. >> It does. I think I'm getting it. So it's the percent of the total. It's not the increase over year over year. No, it's a percent of the total and then we look at what you know how is that percent of the total changing each year. So, you know,
in 2021 during COVID down to 4%, you know, there wasn't a a meal. Um the other thing that's in there that I didn't mention was meals t um meals tax and hotel motel people coming to town and staying in Ammerst. So, those definitely dropped off pretty significantly during COVID. Um, and so,
so that's why I kind of hit that low point and now it's, you know, it's gone up and down, but back up, uh, currently. >> Thank you. >> So, Sean, if you drew a line at 2 and a half% on this graph that you're showing right now, above that would be the new growth.
>> No. Um, that wouldn't that wouldn't really you wouldn't do that. That different different things. >> Okay. But you gave an explanation at the four towns meeting I thought was really helpful in terms of how do we calculate the next year? In other words, why does our tax base anyway go ahead? I don't
even want to confuse it. >> Yeah. Um yeah, I'm not an expert in that chart, but I think what I said at 4town meeting was um you know, our property tax revenues grow by the two and a half% in the levy each year and then new growth is add on top of that.
the burden, the tax burden felt by residential properties may feel like it's growing faster than that. And the reason why it might feel like it's growing faster than that is because the tax levy and the 2 and a half% that applies to all types of properties, residential, commercial,
industrial, um, open space and and but within those four type classifications of property, the values grow at different rates. So what we've seen in the last 5 years is that residential properties have grown, you know, upwards of 10%, 20%, 30%. Um, and
our assessor's office, you know, they're the ones that handle this. they have an obligation to look at what house, you know, what houses um are selling for and they have to do sometimes they can do little spot adjustments to assess values in town, but when they see selling
prices at a certain percentage above what the assessed values are on our books, they're sort of required to do like an across the board increase to all values within that type of class. Um, so they've had to do that several times in the last three, four, five years because of the way the housing market has been.
So what that does is it increases the residential class. Again, kind of like we were talking about the retirement system, like the residential class becomes a bigger slice of the tax levy pie. So, um it could feel like as a taxpayer, your taxes are going up
faster. Um if you had a commercial property or an industrial property, it might feel like it's going up a little bit less because you're a smaller portion of that of that tax levy. >> Thank you. >> Yep. And then even within the residential
class, certain there's even different property types within the residential class. Just to take it one step further, and you'll hear more about this um Monday night, Lynn, you know, mult uh properties that are for four or more, six or more, I can't remember the uh four or more, six or more people or a
certain type of class within the residential class. And even those can grow at different rates. So single family homes could grow at a faster or slower rate than multi- um you know multiple family homes. So there's there's lots of different classes even within that residential class of sort of
subgroupings that can can grow at different levels. >> All right. Um this slide's looking at our sort of revenue per capita um and then adjusted for inflation. So, we've seen um our property tax revenue per capita grow at a faster rate um than the
other two types of property uh types of revenues, state aid and local receipts. Again, that's because we've had pretty solid new growth um for several years now. So, the overall percentage of property tax um revenue is grown at a faster rate than what we're seeing in local receipts or what we're seeing in
state aid. Um, however, across the board in all three of these categories, none of it's keeping pace with inflation. And so, even when, you know, our revenues are going up and one is becoming a bigger piece of the the revenue picture, what it means in terms of buying power is not great. You know,
property taxes is a little bit higher, you know, than what it was back in 2016 in terms of purchasing power, but not much. But the other two, you know, are either flat or lower than what they were back in 2016. So again, what that means is just inflation is growing at a faster
rate than our revenues are growing. Um and then to quickly recap some of our challenges. So um some of the highlights from employ 26. We had robust discussion among elected officials and staff. You know, this meeting is a great meeting. This is one of the kind of pillars of the Amoris budget process as all get
together and meeting to work through the budget and our challenges that we each have. So this is a positive even that we're having this meeting right now. Um last year the result was a 5% increase for school budgets on average. I think one was a five and one was a 4.8 and um
so and that includes the the one-time funding uh 4% for town and library departments and then we maintained an investment in capital um and within capital sustainability ongoing challenges as Paul mentioned um just maintaining level services. I know
the schools are struggling with this and Lynn, you alluded to this um yesterday. You know, we're all of our new money goes towards health insurance and staffing and it's very challenging just to put any new money into our operating expenses which are the things that besides for payroll are you know
inflation is really impacting. You can't do you know to pay for a software today it's going to be 5% 7% more expensive to pay for that software next year and that has to come from somewhere. Um, so departments all the time talk about the challenge of, you know, not getting
increases in their expense side of their budgets because all of it goes towards payroll or health insurance, um, or some of these other fixed costs. So, that's that's definitely a major concern. I'm sure the schools and the library have that same challenge. >> I want to pause for a moment and make sure that Austin Surret can hear us and
we can hear him. >> I am here. >> Thank you. I'm sorry, Sean. Go ahead. I'm glad I got through some of these slides before Austin got here. So, there you go. >> The other road repairs and improvements, that's, you know, I don't need to say much about that. We know, um, that
that's a major goal for the, um, council and for the town. Regional assessment relationship. You know, it's just complicated. We're a unique, you know, region to begin with because we're not a K12 region. you have members of unions and members of different regions and
it's a you know I don't I don't um uh envy Shannon's position trying to make it all work between four different towns and other regional districts and everything. So, you know, we have a unique challenge as it is. Again, the good news is we've got a long history of working together well um and working
through these challenges and so um but that is just a challenge trying to make it work for all four different towns with different compositions. uh rising cost of health insurance, which we're all going to uh have to work through, and then growing the tax base to support the demand for new services. And that speaks to new growth and and different
strategies for um trying to alleviate the pressure on some of our tax base by expanding it going forward. Um we just talked about continued expansion of the tax base. Um continuing to make progress on sustainability initiatives when there's we're competing for these resources. um
maintaining fiscal discipline and you know it's it's just really hard to do new things when we're trying to maintain the the things that we're doing and so how do we balance new initiatives versus keeping what what we are currently doing um funding the four building projects good news is when I left we hadn't started either one or any of them and
now I get to come back and two of them are started which is great um that's a big accomplishment in itself is that we're starting to actually make progress and pay back the debt on some of these projects now which is uh good it's getting us getting through this sort of hump of debt and and that's critical
that we start doing that. Um and then just more needs and resources and considering impact on taxpayers. Uh I'll keep going. So just recapping the budget process. So we have the indicators presentation on the 3. Um on the 17th we have the public forum
which is mostly for the public to get a similar presentation and give us their feedback on what they see or what they'd like to see in the budget going forward. Um the finance committee started talking about budget guidelines at their meeting yesterday. They will potentially
uh develop a draft and and send that to the council to consider at their next meeting which I believe is next week, Paul. Is that right? Um I think it's next week. And then that would go to the council for review and the council would adopt those budget guidelines in December. Uh we'll kick off capital planning like we have in the past in the
spring of 2026. Then, um, schools and library budgets are due on April 1st, which I don't believe is a weekend this year. So, I think April 1st, uh, is the actual date. Uh, the town manager budget is due May 1st. The finance committee will have
about 20 hours of finance committee meetings to review every uh, department's budget. And then we'll have a public hearing on that budget in May or June um, for the community to react to. We'll have a public hearing on the capital plan, which is part of that budget. Um and
then the town council will take action at some point in in June. Ways to get involved. Public comment. >> Okay. So, uh Anna, let's do questions on this presentation and then I want to go
to two other things actually. One is the um is what we can expect if we know to the extent possible in on insurance and the other piece is to have councelor Hani talk about the finance committee uh yesterday. Okay, Anna, your question.
>> Can you go back to the budget slide? >> And by the way, it's Anna, not Anna. >> It is Anna. Yeah, >> we have an Anna and an Anna. >> And Anna. There you go. But then it's easier to tell us apart when you're talking about us.
So, um I I think I want to go. Yeah, I think this is this is the expense side. >> Where's the Yes, this is the part I wanted to talk about. So, we have four
different um groups. town, elementary schools, regional schools, and um the library. And then we have
all of the expenses associated with in their I guess operating budgets, but separately we also have um the retirement stuff. Where can you remind me where the
health insurance falls in this part of the budget? So health insurance would be divied up between each of the operating budgets. So that lives >> so so they they those are all included in the four different categories. But if you took out all of the retirement
portions of the regional school and then did the 3 and 12% increase and then did whatever the retirement costs were because that's not really something that can be manipulated.
Um except for the OPED. I guess you can say, "Oh, we're not going to contribute to OPED this this year," which is dangerous, but can be done. Um, how would that affect
it seems like that would in that would clearly increase the cost of funding the region because then the rest of the operating budget would get a three and a half% increase and just the retirement benefits would get a different amount of increase.
So um let me say back to you what I think you're suggesting is essentially so again the regional line on this um on this spreadsheet just represents the Ammerst assessment >> right the region's budget is much bigger
than 19.8 million, right? Your budget's 30 something million. >> Um, so I think what you're saying is >> in some way have the four towns cover the increase in the retirement assessment
before looking at like the whatever percent increase we do to the operating. Is that sort of what you're saying? So or cover that increase in addition to what the increase would be for the operating budget. >> Sure. Okay,
>> if that were just if that were somehow because so the way Ammeris does their budget and I think also I can't remember either Pelum or Leverett also does it is that the town council or the town the finance committee or whoever it is looks
at the budget and they say we can afford this 3 and a half% increase next year and then all of the different groups then go back and try to fit their budget into that amount of increase. But then there's portions of their operating
budget that are not included in that 3 and 12 in% increase, which includes the capital budget, the and the the retirement budget for most of the rest of the town. But for the region, that that expense is included in their
operating budget. And so if we were somehow able to take that portion out of the regional budget, separately allocate that to the four towns according to our um regional agreement
and then do the rest of the operating budget based on sort of the financial ability of the town. That seems like it would give the school the regional schools a little bit more money than they are currently getting. Is that fair to say?
>> Yeah. If if you are proposing that essentially the four towns because you got to almost think of like the money you see on here for the region that's almost like a that's really a revenue source to the region, right? The region projects all of its costs and then it projects its revenues and our assessment that we pay here which is an expense to
us is a revenue to the region. Um but what if if you're saying essentially you know do the three and a half% increase but also cover the full in cost of the pension assessment for for the region doesn't live here. Um separately from that that would increase essentially just increase the percentage that we
were giving to the or that each town was giving to the schools. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Councilor Hanniki >> just a few things on what Anna was saying. Um capital is separate out of this operating budget the capital. So,
so you sort of lumped that into the region's operating budget and it's a separate line on this document. So, I just want to clear that up. >> I know that's definitely different. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I know you know, but for the people listening, there's a debt debt assessment region. >> I was just talking about the retirement
stuff. >> Um, but for the retirement, if you know th this this projection right now says 4%. We don't know where it will be, but if you look at the change between FY 24 and FY25, it was like well, let's see, 1% would have been 75,000. So, it
was about 1%. And so, um, that means the all the operating budgets were able to get an additional I believe I think that year because of that low change, an additional half percent of increase in operating budgets because of that. So, so you're looking at this year
and saying, "Well, that's above 3 and a half%." But every every year it's not always above 3 and a half%. So, it might not I I'm I'm I it might be good to look at that, but the assumption that that would always then result in more than the
standard 3 and a half% that all the operating budgets at least in this document are getting is not necessarily accurate. Um it depends on what it is, what the change is each year. and some years it's flat for us and that allows the operating budgets to go even higher
and some years it's not and so it might be a wash in the end when you look out I mean that's for the that's for the town but I think for the region >> um I I feel like for the region it has been consistently over
3% 4% every >> I guess what I'm saying is when the towns is flat that allows the region the the Ammerst assessment amount. Well, be be larger is is something I I wanted to be clear about. Um I don't
know what the region's retirement assessment is. It might fluctuate like Amoris does. >> Okay. >> Uh Deborah, >> we're talking about the uh retirement assessment, just the the pension part of it. Mhm. >> Where does the uh retiry
health insurance payment live in the budget? >> That lives in the operating budgets as well. >> It's within the operating budgets as well. >> Yeah. And again, teachers um Yeah, teachers are for the schools will be in their operating budget for the region.
>> Thank you, V. >> Uh Sean, welcome back. Haven't been able to stop by to see you. Herb was my first uh finance subcommittee meeting back in 2010. I remember and I was as scared as ever back then. That was like fresh out
of college and herb was very good. >> All right. So look, uh the the question I just want to get this out of the way because it was raised uh the other night or the other other day in terms of the uh budget which uh one and I can't remember the the the two years or the
three or whatever but one one what it showed was that the town budget increased while the school budget decreased. And there were people quickly jumped in and said well there were reasons for that for that. I really
would like to see and know and have it stated what there is reasons are for that uh particular gap. >> You remember what year it was Irv that you were looking at or that was talked about? >> Yeah, it was it was some every someone
else raised the same point and there >> okay >> but but it was it was it was there there was it was almost like a five. Yeah, >> I think it's what are you talking about the pie chart where it was a percentage of the >> pie chart, right? The pie chart, right? the Yeah. So the pi pie chart from our
presentation Paul Yes. >> So in that pie chart all really all of the operating budgets decreased in that pie chart. So the regional schools, the elementary school, the town, they all decreased. Sorry, from 2016 to FY26.
They decreased at different rates, but they all decreased. And the increase was um primarily to capital uh is the part of the pie that grew. Um one reason, you know, a couple reasons or really the the one reason that I can
think of in particular uh that the town share dropped maybe at a lower rate than the schools dropped was there was one year when we funded Crest and that was sort of a separate um one-time sort of increase to the town side to fund a new department. So that
was above and beyond sort of the regular percent increase that year. So that's maybe why the town slice grew at a little bit slower or shrunk at a slower rate than the schools. Um but both all the operating departments um shrunk from 2016 to 2026.
>> Okay. >> Any further question? >> None at all. Thank you. >> Okay. Um All right. Seeing no more on this doesn't mean we can't come back to it. Uh either Paul or Sean, do you want to talk a little bit about health
insurance? >> Sure. So, um on health insurance, um we just we just know that the prices are going up. It's really partially due to utilization. Um but it's all mostly about just general inflation in the uh
health insurance world. We're seeing a lot of activity and it's it's an unsettled world. you see a lot of um um arguments right now between UMass Medical and Blue Cross Blue Shield in terms of reimbursement rates. Um so you're seeing the sort of pressure from
both sides, insurers trying to reduce the payments that they make uhos you hospitals and other providers trying to increase the um their to cover their costs. uh you're also seeing this federal government step away from many of their health care obligations which
is going to import impact the state budget you know as the as we start to look at so the insurers typically look at the utilization as of October 1 and then they start to analyze that at least from Maya's perspective um in terms of
what was going to cost so we are all alert being alert to a double digit and I think it was like build double digit could be 99% well I don't think we're looking at that level. Um, but it certainly is above 10% and hopefully below 20% is where I'm hearing. But
again, we're meeting with one of our Maya reps this afternoon. So, I don't think they'll give us any more definition on that. But, uh, we're everybody, all the communities are looking for better guidance from our health insurance providers as soon as possible. The GIC doesn't really issue
their numbers until May typically. So, we're trying to get ours as soon as we can. the la the they always come out in early February at the latest for us. >> And let me just mention before going to councelor Hani uh the town of Ammerst,
the regional schools and um the Ammerst schools, all of us and and Pelum, excuse me, are under Maya. The two other contributing communities, Shootsbury and Leverett, are under the county system, uh, which
is the one where they took the shock after the fiscal year started. Councelor Hanaki, >> um, with that that comment, my question is, which I didn't I don't know why I didn't ask it last year, does the region and
the elementary school and the town all always face the same inc percentage increase or are we figured differently? So like when the town is told 19.4% is that the region's is the region also 19.4 and is the elementary 19.4 or are there different calculations for the
different ones? >> Yeah. So we're all in it together. So and and the larger it's we used to be our self- insurance group used to include the four entities plus the town of Pelum and so we just moved everybody over to Maya when we went out and our insurance advisory committee has
represented has has representation from the region uh the elementary schools uh and the library all the non-UN employees as well and and and collective bargaining employees >> and um councelor Hani because I know you
may be jumping off for the hearing um that both of us are registered for. Uh can you give us a little bit of an update on yesterday's finance meeting? Uh and I want to just recognize upfront it has been the practice of the town's
finance committee to provide guidelines for our budget and they are continuing to do so. In the charter, it actually also talks about this group providing financial guidelines. And one of the things we want to discuss at the end of the meeting is how we should help one
group um in if you will inform another. So, councelor Hani. >> Yeah. So, the finance committee has um and councelor Steinberg is also on the finance committee from this group. So, he can add if if I miss anything. We've started now that we've got the financial indicators presentation, we've started
trying to discuss what the budget guidelines that we might propose to the council for discussion might look like. Um, we haven't really got anywhere on that yet. We basically discussed the financial indicators and then at yesterday's meetings we discussed some information that we might like to know
from this group or from various um of the operating budget, the four functional areas um to help us make some decisions. The decisions we're looking at are um whether to keep the capital budget at a 10 and a half% of the uh
levy. Um whether to recommend same increases in year-over-year percentages to all four functional areas or differentiate those increases. um whether to recommend that the um I I believe it's the elementary base for the
percentage increase year-over-year projection for FY27 include the onetime funds that came from free cash last year or not. Um uh as well as you know other stuff on the revenue side and and things like that. Those are the biggest
questions um that that we are tackling that we have not answered yet. Um, I I have a list of questions from the finance committee that that we think would help us um discuss here or get answers to here to help us tackle those questions to make
some recommendations to the full council. Um, but we have not made any decisions on any of those questions yet. Um, we did though want to reiterate the caution that um, Paul and Sean did say regarding the currently projected 3 and
12% year-over-year increase on the operating side. um that that is based on a lot of economic indicators on the revenue side turning out well and the economy staying strong, but also even though the revenue side predicts
basically flat state aid, that is a prediction that is based on also the economy and the federal government um remaining at least stable. And as Paul said with regard to um health insurance at the federal level, if the aid from
the federal level doesn't come in for mass health at the state level, we don't know what the state will do to that and how that will affect state aid coming to the towns um in terms of where the legislator legislature might prioritize
their limited pie. Um and so that that three and a half percent normally we've been a high confidence level that that's the minimum each of the functional areas will see um when it's when it's put out at financial indicators. That confidence level is a lot lower this year
is is what we wanted to reiterate. Um we're hopeful it can still be there but there's so much more uncertainty that that that that level is not there. And we we are concerned as a committee that we might have to later on when things
flesh out a little bit come back and say it can't be 3 and a half% it has to be lower. Um certainly Paul and Sean will keep finance committee updated and if something like that happens I'm confident Paul and Lynn as as chair of this committee would would call BCG
meetings immediately um to discuss that. But but we just wanted to reiterate that that confidence level is not anywhere near the level it's been in the past on that. And if you want me to go through some of the questions I can right now or I can wait a little bit.
>> Um I want to make sure we do get those questions because it's important for this group whether we can address them all in this meeting or a meeting that we need to schedule immediately following this meeting. Uh but yes uh and let me just mention the at one o'clock there is
a hearing on rank choice voting. We our bill for Ammerst has still not been passed through the legislature. It's now going on seven years or actually five years. Uh and councelor Hani who was on the charter commission is going to be testifying. If I say a
few words it'll just be will you stop stalling on this and please pass this. Uh but thank you very much. If count you see councelor Hani kind of in two conversations, it's because she's in two conversations. Uh so with that in mind,
uh Andy, uh Paul or Sean, any other comments from the finance committee? I'm seeing no. Okay. Then I want to make sure we now go to the next part of our agenda which is basically to go to each
of the representative groups here of which there are four and say kind of where do you see your challenges this year? We don't expect you to say this is what we need as our budget. Um if you did that we probably would say where did
you get that number? But what do you see as your challenges? So let's start with the library and I'm calling on Austin and Nat and Sharon. >> So our challenges are several. I mean
one is that we are now operating from diverse sites. Um and there are issues that may come up dur over the course of the year uh that may require some agility in the budget. That's number one. Number two,
we have positions that are long overdue and need to be filled. And um uh I think I was supposed to emphasize long overdue a little bit more. So I'm going to just repeat long overdue
um that need to be um filled. And then of course the third challenge and Paul indicated this is the townwide challenge about um you know health insurance and those uh expenses. Uh Sharon,
>> no you hit the nail on the head. Um the will be opening in FY27, you know, back at 43 AMD Street. Um and we do we need to fill those three positions. Um, so that carries an
expense along with uh health insurance increases on top of this doubledigit uh increase. So those are our concerns. >> Okay, Nat, anything else? Okay, then let's turn to the schools
and we have Deb Leonard, we have um Irv and then later on I'm going to take the two of you and go with Anna and talk about the region. Okay, Irv, are you you're going to kick it off?
>> Yes. Uh of of course you this is early in the process but uh if the past can be any kind of an indicator um and also the current economic conditions and those e economic conditions that we have right now I I
can probably confidently say that we're we're going to be probably coming back and looking at a a higher rate than 3.5%. And and I I think one of the things we've said before that's really really
needs to be heard is that you know it's our requirements are are some of our requirements are statemandated. We cannot not do them and and that goes for our IEPs etc. But the other thing is and and
along with that is special education. A family could move in, as did over past years, with special need children and students and knock our budget out of whack immediately
by thousands of dollars. And we have no no control over that. None. And that has happened in the past three years. I mean, this this past year, family moved in with three kids with
severe needs, and that was stunning to us. It really plastered our budget. So I I guess I want the people of the finance committee, other BCG members,
other members of the town to understand that the school has con has costs that it really cannot control. we can do our best to stay within the budget guidelines, do all the cutting
necessary, and then at some point, bang, we're thrown out of whack by forces that we have no control over. And sometimes I believe that the uh various town committees and town personnel don't really understand that and that, you
know, when the schools come back hat in hand asking for money, more money, it's not because we can't live within our means. is because the means that we have have been stretched beyond our control. That's one thing. And and the other
thing is unless there is another BCG meeting in December, this is my last meeting because I step off uh uh and I am no will no longer be on the school committee at the end of December. And
what I want to make sure that I say, it's been a pleasure and honor serving with all of you. and Paul and Sean. It has been one of the most incredibly honorable times of my life to be involved with you on on on on the issues
that have faced this town and is something that I am very proud of and I'm very proud to know Sean and Paul and you Lynn and the work that we've worked together over the years also for you Andy Steinberg. It's been a pleasure and an
honor. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for that. I have the feeling you're going to need to expect another meeting in December at least if not as soon as possible. So Anna, did you have something about the schools? >> I did. I had a question. Um, and I asked
this question of Sean at four towns and I am I want to ask it here so that I can write down the answer. Um, so I don't know it's it's pertaining to the schools, but I don't know if I'm directing it at Sean or uh the the group from the schools. One of the things that was brought up a few times during
campaign season was the idea of a revolving fund specifically for special education costs. And Sean, you had mentioned that you thought there might be something that was related to that created a while ago, I think is what you said, but I couldn't remember if it was for the elementary or the region. And
I'm wondering if if the school folks could detail because I can see the volatility of having unexpected costs come in midway through, right? and absolutely we are legally required to and we want to meet those needs. But I'm I'm just curious about the option of
having and and building up some sort of stabilization fund so that there's a little bit more buffer um before the need for increased for seeking increased funds and I don't know what exists currently or what the options would be for creating one but I I wanted to pose
that question to this group. So, I was actually raising my hand to I don't know. And Shannon, do you want me to take this or do you want to speak to this? >> I'm happy to speak to it. Um, so we do have a stabilization fund for special
education at both Amherst and the region. Um, we are actually anticipating that we will need to tap into the stabilization fund this year for a residential placement of a student. Um, and there is for for the stabilization
fund, there's a maximum uh amount that you can have within that fund. And off the top of my head, I want to say it's about 5% of the operating budget total, but I have to go back and double check the regulations for that. Um, we also do
have revolving funds. Um specifically at the region uh for summit we have um when a tuition den student comes in uh it could be one to three students per year that tuition goes into um a revolving
fund that we do use to support some of the staffing at Summit. We also at the Amherst level have a preschool revolving fund. Um, so when uh students that are not in the preschool for special needs specifically, those parents do pay a
tuition cost that also goes and supports the preschool program. Um, and there is a a revolving fund that does not have much money in it, but there sometimes are tuitioned in students to some of our special programs. Um, that's not uh all
the time. Uh, but we do have that set up as well. >> Um, okay. I want to is there any further comment on those that issue of the revolving fund because I want to then go back and ask uh Deb Leonard and also
Shannon whether you have any other key issues you'd like to point out for the elementary district. >> I have a couple things I'd like to say. >> Um uh so one we are very concerned about health insurance. Um, I mean that goes
for both, but speaking of Ammerst, uh, that increase is dramatic on our budget. We have a new 5-year contract for transportation that starts this year. The good thing is is we know what that increase will be, but it's still an
increase um that will hit our budget. Um, we have major restructuring going on for K to 6, the sixth graders moving to the middle school and the merging of the two schools. Uh we are in the process meeting with the principles, meeting um
with other departments for all of the logistics of how that is going to come to one. Um it's an incredible amount of work and and it's in the process our boundaries for the uh Amherst schools.
There's going to be a presentation on Monday night. So, for anybody listening, Monday night where we're looking for public input and uh hope maybe there possibly a vote on those boundaries. Um if not, there's another meeting set up for Tuesday night to hopefully vote
those boundaries because that'll help us move forward with some of this work and getting that solidified. Um we are still in the works of the sixth grade lease from the middle school. Uh, and I'm not sure if any if anybody was paying attention to this,
but it's part of the uh regional uh agreement in order for us to have that lease. Um, I don't know why it's in here, but it asks that the Amherst Town Council also approved that lease, but
Amherst would be the lease. Um, so we were looking into seeing how I if that can be amended because it would be awkward that you all would be the lease and also have to approve the lease at the region side, but it didn't have the other towns on there. So, that's
something that um Paul and Dr. Z and I talked about that we're exploring um to figure out how to navigate that. Um, but then there's the work of how much space do they take up and what will be the cost. There's also in our regional agreement, the maximum we can charge per classroom was $100. Um but from the
Amherst side that's great. From the region side that's might not be the best thing. Um so those are some of the challenges um that have come up. The um largest bargaining unit last year um it was still in negotiations. We have an
idea of where that is landing but it has not yet been ratified um for our uh teachers and paras and clerical staff. >> Okay. Um Deb, did you have anything else you wanted to add?
>> Yeah. Um the certainly the volatility of the or the un certainty of the special education expenses is is something that makes it hard to uh build into a budget. I understand we need to build it in.
Um, one of the things that I've said since I started serving is that COVID doesn't go away with small people. Um, the mental health impacts are huge. They're
enormous and they're increasing and that's statewide. I don't know if it's na nationally. Um, as is the learning gap and the social emotional development. So, um, you know, I don't know when it's going to go away,
but it's not. And and those resources are being stretched very thin at both our schools, at all our schools. Um, another thing that is awkward to point out, but I'm going to do it anyway, is that in
reviewing some of these um the the fiscal 26 budget questions of other departments, it seems like there's an opportunity that is not available to the schools to um relieve some of their operating costs through other avenues.
Um, JCPC, Cash Capital, um, uh, where is the other one? Free cash. Um, there's just parts of the budget that seem like that the that and you can
see the the pattern of those expense lines not increasing in the on the town side year-over-year. and either you're doing an amazing job of buying less for a decade or there's just other sources that aren't available to the schools
that just put us in a difficult position because as Sean mentioned are we we do have other sources of of uh revenue but um the towns really are the major one that is
possibly variable not variable But um chapter 70 money is chapter 70 money. Transportation reimbursement is just whatever the state hands to you. So there's just there's just places in our
budget that we really struggle. And as has been mentioned, the more we have to meet certain fixed costs, it puts us in a position of cutting things that would keep people in
the district. um and keep people happy. Uh the ongoing discussions about reducing um specials or reducing band and orchestra, they seem like they're extras, but there's many students that
that's the reason they come to school. That's the reason they get through their classes. So, you know, just to it's it's it's demoralizing for those students to to hear year after year after year that their their positions might be on the
topping block. Um, and they've asked uh that they be told earlier on so that they can um look for other uh employment, but to be told as late as they are that, oh, look, the funds are
restored or look, we found the extra money. It's just an unhealthy environment and puts a lot of strain on those particular um very important members of of the teaching community. And in fact, those are the people that know the students
throughout their time in the schools. This the classroom teachers change, but they're really in some ways the anchor, the go-to people for students in our in our classroom. So, if there's a way that we could get away from this reactive um budgeting
cycle, it would be beneficial to the students and our employees. And I guess the last part I want to just throw out there is um this 1%. I'm not really sure where the conversation came from that
the sixth grade school was supposed to be a net zero and that that the the the budget adjustment that the savings from the new bud from the new building were supposed to be
okay rather do the other way around that the six the increase in whatever staffing that we need for the sixth aid will be offset by the savings from the new building because I don't have any
understanding that that has during the time I've been been paying attention I'm not really sure where that um expectation came from and um right now as you know the the the cost of a small
school is really high you know the it scales it's much more efficient on a larger level. And so we're looking at the sixth grade being a school of 144 students with its own assistant principal, but also its own
um specialized program. So the the the ILC and building blocks and aims, those programs that we have in the elementary schools, well in the two ones that will go to the consolidated building, those services still need to be met for uh the
sixth grade student. So and OT, PT, all of those things are really hard to do efficiently in that size school. Thank you. I see questions uh from councelor Hanniki and then Anna Delin Gothier.
>> Um just a couple of questions on some of the stuff. The first one is um co Deb you keep saying co doesn't go away. Um, and I understand that. But I also have to comment that the COVID
kindergarteners, those that were in kindergarten during that remote year are going into sixth grade in the next budget cycle. So much of the elementary schoolers um didn't experience schooling in COVID. That's not to say they don't have some
stuff, but some of the kindergarteners basically were newborns during co that um I'm not a psychologist, but probably didn't have a huge effect on on what is going on 5 years from now when they start kindergarten. So, at at what point
are we transitioning our elementary school out of COVID doesn't go away because they didn't experience COVID at all in schooling is the question. Um, and and I guess I was quite surprised to
hear that the I I don't know whether it's the elementary school committee or the regional school committee. It sounds like it's the regional school committee or the staffing at the regional school committee is seeking to potentially change a regional agreement in a manner
that Ammerst doesn't have to agree to. Um I think that's basically what I heard that that this change to a regional agreement you're trying to find a way that three of the four towns could approve it and the town that is 80% of
the region doesn't have to. Um >> no that's not. So, can you explain to me more how how you're trying to like what what that explanation was about changing the regional agreement regarding the rental part of the regional agreement
without requiring Ammerst to agree to that regional agreement change? >> Can I jump in? I first I want to address your first comments about COVID before I go to that. Um, so I understand that the kids are now in sixth grade who who were
in kindergarten when CO happened and remote and I'm going to say this from a mother standpoint who had children in 2020 when COVID happened and the those kids uh and personally I experienced this there were delays. early
intervention was being done virtually and so many kids did not qualify for early intervention when they should have qualified because you're how could you you know re evaluate this student from a or not student but kid from a screen and
now those kids are in kindergarten so I don't think our co problem is going away because there was a delay when those services started when the early intervention started to be back in person and then uh and then getting the services they need. So that's a delay
and those kindergarteners are wild and they are they're here now and I know that from a mother standpoint. So, I still think we're going to see a rise in special education needs and I don't think that this COVID bubble um it should not no longer be considered
because those kids that weren't in school were affected and those are in their early childhood years where that intervention is extremely important which will help mitigate longer down the road what interventions they may need.
Um, so I just personally from not from a finance standpoint, from a mother's standpoint know that that is a contributing factor. Um, in terms of the lease, uh, so it's not that we don't want Amherst to vote or all three the
three other towns to not approve. It's in the regional agreement. The only town to approve this lease for the region is the town of Amherst. And I don't know why that is. So, why would Amherst only approve that and not the other um three
towns? And what and it's also wonky that Amherst would be approving a lease for themselves essentially. So, I mean, we don't have the full answer to that, but it's something that we're looking into that I wanted to know. >> Shannon, I I want to go back and see if
I um if you've interpreted councelor Heni's question. I don't think we're specifically focusing on the lease. I think we're focusing in overall in general on the budget where three towns can approve and Amorest wouldn't approve
and we'd be stuck with our 80% or 79 or whatever we're at. >> No, no. I was I I I think Shannon answered my question and explained it a little bit better. I I had heard that maybe she was that that they were exploring a possibility of a change in
the regional agreement regarding the lease. There's a a part of the regional agreement that says leases can't charge more than $100 a room. And what I had heard Shannon say initially was that they're seeking to change that that um propose a change to the regional
agreement to that clause and that they were going to ask the state to see if the only towns that needed to approve that change to the regional agreement were anyone but Ammerst. And I was concerned by that. So I think I misheard what Shannon said. So I that that all
four towns would have to approve that change to the regional agreement. So like I said, I think I just misheard Shannon and she cleared it up. >> Thank you so much. Um Anna, >> I want to Deb go back to something you said because I'm not sure I was understanding you fully and I know that you said this was like a a challenging
thing to to mention in the in in the mixed company of this group. Um but you had mentioned a couple of different funding sources like JCPC, uh free cash, etc. And you said that um the schools did not have access to those. Did you
specifically mean the regional schools do can you explain that a little bit more because I was a bit confused as there are school committee members who sit on JCPCs for example. So if you could clarify that point a bit. >> I don't I I I didn't speak clearly and and thank you for that opportunity to
refine what I'm saying. there's parts of what I might regard as an operating budget that get bundled together um for municipal and put in those places. Um so there's uh
um well it was in like the FY26 budget questions there was uh a question what approaches are being considered to improve purchasing both materials and vendor surfaces given inflation and supply fluctuations. And the answer was
since the budget is not increasing to meet purchasing needs. the department has been putting off purchases and grouping things into more capital projects. So, I think there's a bundling that goes on um that that we just don't have access to. Or maybe we could, I
don't know, maybe we could bundle things together and put them through JCPC, but that hasn't been our practice. Um there's um there's also places in
where is it? I have notes obviously. Um, street reling, traffic signs, traffic signals, tree removal, trail maintenance, planning consultants, transportation engineering, some of these things. Um,
I mean, I'm no municipal expert, but it seems like those are operating issues, not capital issues. And um I'm not questioning the practice so much as the accessibility to the schools for doing
the same kind of thing. >> So to clarify if if I may, Lynn, to to clarify, you're saying that the the difference seems to be in the definition and use of the term capital versus operating, right? Like it it's basically saying that you're not I would I would
argue that there that the things you listed are not a misuse of capital. those all do sound capital to me and that the schools should be using that same definition in before they go ahead to make capital requests that could be on along similar lines. So, in my mind,
that's more of a clarification that we could offer of saying, "Hey, look at what we're using for capital. There is no reason why you could not apply for capital funds in this same vein, right? Like, it's not a salary line. It's not that." But as long as we're all using the same definitions and have the same
understanding, we're we're leveling that field. Does that make sense? So, it's not necessarily saying the town should stop doing this. It's saying the schools should utilize the same definition. And if if we have access Oh, go ahead. Sorry. >> I want to call on Sean because he popped his hand up on this one.
>> Yeah. So So the schools do have access to it. The elementary schools do and they do request capital every year. We we send the same form to the schools that all other departments get. So Jerry Champagne requests computers and you know the facility team requests um you
know asbestous abatement money. And so the elementary schools have the same exact access to capital as um as other departments and they're evaluated as part of JCPC just like other departments. The region is different because the region those costs have to
be split between four towns, right? It's not, you know, if the if the region needs to buy something, it's not a 100% Ammeris cost. It's a 80% Ammeris cost. And that's and I agree with you, the regional agreement doesn't really consider ways to fund capital really well other than
borrowing for it or you have to put it sort of in your operating budget. And we've I something I did have to do in the past once in a while like put it in the operating budget um and then it gets divvied up according to a certain way and you could kind of fund it on a cash basis but it's it's not straightforward.
So, I agree with you on the region like the but I think it's because the region is its own standalone entity and it's funded from multiple towns. >> Shannon. >> Yep. I just wanted Deb to let you know that uh we did receive the notification from Sean to submit our capital request
by December 22nd and I have invited Bridget and Sarah to our internal capital meetings. Sarah has been a part of the region capital meetings and uh Bridget and Sarah will help us um internally for those capital requests to the town for Ammer schools. Okay. And Deborah,
>> so then maybe we can just have a broader conversation about the kinds of things that aren't like necessarily what we're considering capital that we can request from the town both both in Ammerst in the Ammerst schools as as possibly the
region to expand our um requests beyond the larger items that we've asked for. Sounds to me to some extent that the grant the groundwork's been set for that. >> Yeah. >> With this um invitation for this year and the meeting uh that u was just
mentioned. >> Well, we need to change our practices though. So, you know, the invitation is one thing, but understanding what that includes is is a different issue. >> Can I can I speak to that, Lyn, real quick? >> Yeah, please. >> Yeah. I don't I mean, Deb, maybe you and I can talk more offline. I don't know
what types of things you, you know, it seems like you're alluding to that maybe there's different types of things that you want to submit for capital than what has been submitted in the past. I'll say, um, you know, it still has to meet the definition of capital. So that I think you and I could talk through and
and Shannon what those things are and determine if capital is the best way to go. But again like computers, furniture repairs, asbestous abatement, facility improvements, um all you know vehicles, equipment, all those things have gone through capital for a while, right? Um
but if there's other things I think we, you know, we should talk about them on a case- by case basis whether they meet the definition of capital. >> Thank you. Anna, you still have your hand up. >> I do. I'm sorry. Uh, it was a re it was a reup, I promise. So, I think Deb, what's coming to mind for me are some
conversations that I think you and I had last year, question mark, about free cash and requests for free cash and and I remember um it may have been you. It may have been Sarah Best Kenny, I can't remember. I'm sorry. But um we were talking through some some of the things
that were on like a wish list and there were question marks and ultimately I believe that someone who in the schools said that this they didn't believe that this would count for capital so they hadn't submitted the request. But I I think that's where this general understanding of of making sure we're all on the same page on that definition
would be key. But I think this has led to a broader question for me about the capital budgets for the for the region and how those function and how those are able to uh have some sort of requesting process
akin to JCPC or you know or free cash requests because they're really there there isn't one in from my understanding that functions in a similar way and I and I don't have the answer to how that would work given town meeting schedules and appropriations requests and the town
council schedules. But I do think that this is something that I would love to see a bit more hammered out in terms of how the regional agreement and and this is my own I have not read the regional agreement in a couple months so I'll have to go back to it. But um but how the regional agreement addresses
unforeseen capital needs that come up whereas the town might have submitted those to free cash. What would the region do if that type of request came up and where would they seek that funding and then how is it divvied up so that could the region request 80% from Ammeris free cash and then go to the
other communities for the other remaining 20 and there's so many issues pinging in my head with that system but I don't know what the other answer is so I would love to um kind of hear and and it's not right now and I know this is a
muddy question but I would love to hear kind of what the system is for late breaking capital requests or or you know that kind of thing. The equivalent of of the town going to free cash or something similar. >> Paul,
>> just so Sean and Shannon can answer this, but the region does have its own free cash. It's established every year. They maintain it. They can draw on that. That's what that their what they call um what they end, right? Is what they call it. Um that's what that's for. It's
their version of free cash so they don't have to come to the four towns. That gives them immediate access through the regional school district committee. >> We would need to go to the four towns because if we were to use it, we'd be increasing our operating budget. So the school committee and all four towns
would have to vote to approve it. Um but we do have a capital stabilization fund as well, similar to the special ed stabilization. um that if it if we had a disaster and absolutely needed to tap into that, we could. >> Thanks, Shannon. I'm just going to
request that the next time we have a four towns meeting, you spend a little bit of time on these various reserve accounts and so forth so that um we have a better understanding across the region. >> Yeah. >> Uh thank you. Uh anything else on this
particular issue? I also want to do point out that the one time that I at least can recall that we used um quote free cash, which is a misnomer. Uh it that we used free cash was we gave a gift to the region. It was around the
track and field. Am I correct Paul and Sean? Yeah. Okay. Um fine. Are there any other points for the elementary district before I turn to Anna and ask specifically about the region which we
kind of seem to have morphed into anyway? Okay, Anna, anything else about the region? I think the biggest the biggest concern from the region is around the the expenses that the region carries within
its own operating budget that the other groups do not and it's carried separately in a different budget. Um and so being able to determine what is fair, what is a fair increase to the region as compared to
the other departments is very tough because what's in the bucket is very different from not very different but a bit different from the other buckets. And so by saying everybody gets a 3.5% increase, sometimes that means that the
region gets a 2.5% increase and then an 8% increase on these other portions of the budget that go up that aren't necessarily included in the other buckets. And so that has been
difficult in some budget cycles. Not I wouldn't say all budget cycles. I would say some budget cycles more than other budget cycles. Um and uh I don't know what the solution is. I just want to point out that that is a difference and
trying to figure out how best to um I don't what the solution is is is tough. >> Okay, Councelor Hani. >> Yeah. Um, I agree that that's a
difference, but I think we also have to identify a difference in revenue sources. The the region has revenue sources beyond the four assessments, including state aid. Um, >> that comes out of the budget. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, but but it's
it's in your revenue sources in addition to that. And if you look at our our document and financial indicators, those th those state aid revenue sources including chapter 70 for the elementary school are put into the total 105 that is then distributed amongst the four
operating budgets, not just the elementary school operating budget, as well as all the capital, as well as these other sources of expenses that you just identified. And so is our UGGA. Um, so is veterans benefits, so is all of this. And so it's I I tried to actually
put it all last year and basically what I came out with is, you know, and I can try and do it again. It's kind of a wash, but I I I get your point and I want to say that. But I think we also have to recognize that the assessment is not the only income the um
that the operating budget for the region has. But the operating budget is the only income say the elementary school has besides these other things. Um and then there's these other expenses that are outside. I'm not wording it well,
but but look at our revenue side that is paying just the operating that chapter 78 of $6 million. The school elementary school does not see an operating budget of 29 million plus 6 million. they see an operating
budget of 29 million. That 6 million goes into our total that is then distributed to all three and a half%. Um hard to explain quickly but um I'm happy to sit down with you and show you one of the documents I did that did it all at
one point. Um I want to add on the regional front the thing I think I mean besides the budget increases and the same pressures that the elementary schools have talked about and that is that I think we're
looking at a capital um assessment coming down the road that is just not publicly been completely acknowledged and out there. And when you look at the out years for capital for the region, it's pretty frightening. And I I want to
make sure that somewhere along the line in our discussions with the region, uh we come to a better understanding of what's real in that and when it actually might hit. Uh Andy,
>> yeah. Um I want to turn to another issue regarding the regional schools in a second but before doing that u point out that when we in Ammerst set aside 10 a.5% for capital that that includes the
money that um we are obligated to pay the region for capital so that we don't have a separate line for that But it's it's an obligation that is due and uh so
it doesn't um come out of the uh operating budget side that we're talking about when we say u what we talked about was 3 and a half% but it comes out of
the uh 10 12% capital amount and uh it's you know as we look at why we need 10 and a half% for capital. There's a lot of factors that go in there. Um the buildings that are being built in town,
u our uh tremendous roads problem, just the general capital needs. But um speaking for somebody who's uh been involved in uh town from the finance committee days to now for me I was on
the finance committee then the select board then the council um and over that uh 20-year period u you know we had gone from um a point where we were
essentially maybe 7% going to capital And um a lot of people keep saying why are you having all of these building problems now? And I would argue that a large part of it is because of the fact
that um back 20 years ago we were at that lower rate and we tried to uh we made a decision fairly soon after I got involved to try and build up the amount going to capital but to do it very
slowly. so that we wouldn't devastate um operating budgets as we were doing that. The other issue that though that I wanted to bring up and councelor Hanicki might jump in on this too. Um, one of a
concern that we have is that we recognize that uh when you talk about the increase to the region um are saying that uh we're we're thinking of um at least initially a 3
and a half% which hasn't finally been confirmed by the finance committee yet. that it um that that PL play doesn't mean um a 3 and 12% increase um in the total regional budget for the
assessments of the four towns because the assessment method plays a part in it and uh one of the concerns that u councelor Hani and I had talked about was that we're not sure that if it went
up 3 and a2% in Ammeris that we know how it would affect the other towns if um the assessment method was calculated based upon our um suggestion of a 3 and
a half% for Ammerst would that mean that any of the other towns might go up u by a larger amount and whether that is doable for the the other pounds and how
that would play out. And so, um, one of the requests that, uh, uh, councelor Haniki and I had discussed was to ask Shannon if there was a way to approach that analysis between now and the next
BCG or four towns meeting so that we have a better understanding of um, how that plays out. If Ammeris goes up three and a half% you figure out how the and
what that would mean for using the what DESIE now allows um us to do as a four town region for assessment methodology how that plays out for the other towns and whether that's a doable percentage
because that is going to have to be considered. We don't want to be in a position where we're doing something that um is going to bankrupt any of our neighboring communities. We're all in this together. So, Councelor Hanicki,
was there anything else that you wanted to say on that subject? >> Yeah. U Andy seged into some of the questions the finance committee had for today's meeting with respect to schools. We had a question for the library. It was sort of dealt with during the library one. Um, which is as we come up
with our budget guidelines, um, we would like to know what our potential guideline for the regional increase, how that affects the other four three towns um, in their potential assessment. um because that
will um the finance committee will take that information into account when drafting our guidelines that and I want to be clear that does not mean if we receive an information of if we increase by 3
and a half% and the other three towns would be looking at 10% increases that we would immediately say oh we can't do that. I want to be clear that that is not necessarily what the discussion would be. Um, we're looking for information on what would that affect, how would that affect the other towns,
um, and potentially their affordability so that we can potentially draft guidelines and discuss other options for making at least the same increase say as I make this up because we haven't discussed this, but if it's three and a
half% guidance right now and and the committee sticks with that across the board, but we recognize that that guidance for the region might um not be doable for the other three towns. And we know that early we can put into our budget guidelines and have discussions
on well we still want to find a way to get that 3 and a half% to the region say but it might not all be through the assessment to give an example of where that conversation might go. Um such that we would like that information from the region. Um so an idea of how our current
projections of three and a half% impact the other three towns assessments and what they would be um you know for for the region um and the elementary school. We talked a little bit about that how near are you all on that projection for
costs of sixth grade in the region um both on the region side and on the elementary side. Right. We like I said we we discussed this a little bit. um what what lowered costs might there be for the region? Um since there might be some shared staff costs that are fully
covered by the region right now that might reduce the region staff costs and and be taken on by the ele elementary, for example. Um we'd like to a best guess projection. We understand it's in in the works. Um but that would help us potentially discuss um elementary
schools similar Wildwood and Fort River consolidation. What what's that look like? Um is there a reduction in operation for that consolidation both in staff and utilities? Um things like that. And then another question that we had for the elementary school as it
relates to the building project um that would be helpful for our guidance and our guidelines is once the new elementary school opens, what is the elementary school committee's plans on the Wildwood building? How long might they hold on to it versus how long might
how at what point might they um transition it to the con care and control of the town council or whoever it goes to? Um because right now it's under the care and control of the the elementary school committee. um because
that has impacting costs on either side, the municipal or the elementary school depending on how long it's in each side's control if at all. Um operating sides, heating, demolition, not demolition. I don't want anyone to take this and say, "Oh my god, we're going to
demolition." But, you know, we have to talk about that and and what's going on. But but we would have to right now it's none of that's on the town. if it's coming to the town really early in the FY27 budget, we have to find a way to put that into the Mansville side of the budget. If it's half and half, things
like that. Um, so, so those are some of the questions the finance committee had for the schools to help us discuss our big questions of what our guidance will be for the library. It's a similar one with the Jones. Uh, the library
discussed it. Um, cost differences will there be between current operating and the new? And then I think you guys mentioned the the need for um funding of the three petition positions that are still on staff on on the books but have not been filled um because of funding
issues. Um more information regarding those potential costs in the FY27 year um because you will be moving in that year would be helpful to finance as we discuss our budget guidelines. Shannon, you have your hand up and then I have a comment or two I wanted to
make. >> Okay. Um, Mandy Joe, I appreciate all of these questions. I know they're answers everybody wants and I cannot speak to them today. Um, but I am curious in terms of timelines. Uh, we are going to have the first draft presentation for
the region. December 9th is the school committee meeting and December 16th is the Amherst school committee meeting. Um, so I'm wondering how that fits in with the town's timelines or if there's other things that we should be aware of
um that you could tell us now timelinewise. >> Uh Shannon, to the extent that I can, I don't want to take the time here, but would be glad to discuss with you what our agendas look like. And let me just tell you, they look like a floating crap
game. Um, so, uh, I've been trying, we've actually scheduled two additional meetings. I've been trying to shuffle with Paul and Athena what's going to go on which agenda. But I will tell you that the last meeting of the Ammerst
Town Council presently presently is scheduled for the uh, 15th of December. That's in this term. Okay. Councelor Hani, did you have another comment? >> Yeah, I I wanted to respond to that. So our goal from finance committee is to
have these guidelines to the town council for its first December meeting for discussion which is what um 16 the 2nd I think >> December 1st >> first the first um and then the council may decide to um adopt them then I doubt
that I think they'll send them back to finance who knows um for for adoption the the goal of the council is always to adopt in mid December um before the new year turns Um, so that it sounds like that timeline doesn't quite work with
the first presentations to the region. Um, um, which which means we'll have to come up with some language and some some recommendations without potentially having some of that information. But if some of it is available, particularly the um, a draft sense of what a three
and a half% increase in Ammerst would be projected on the impact of the other three towns would would be helpful. um for for language. The other ones we might be able to work with without a full knowledge given the conversation we've had today. Um but it might also be
that we rec we recognize as a council that it needs taken up again in January with a potential modification of of budget guidelines too. And I'll just say really sorry Lynn um quick um the 3% on that revenue uh assessment for the towns
that is heavily dependent on what the total operating budget is which means shoring up all of our projections and what other revenue sources. So it kind of has to go hand inand for um when we get all of that together first which we anticipate to have that first rough
draft December 1st. So I don't know that I'll have I mean not December 1st December 9th. So, I don't know that I'll have it before then to you. >> Thank you. Uh, that's very helpful, Shannon. Uh, I just want to be mindful of the time and the fact that the town has not had an opportunity to talk about
its challenges. Uh, but Sharon, you have your hand up. >> Yeah, just briefly, I wanted to respond to councelor Hani's uh questions. Um, and you know, I understand that the library is a very small piece of this
pie, but it's all relative. It's huge to me. It's huge to the library. Um, I wanted to just give you a quick order an an idea of the magnitude of um the difficulty we'll be uh experiencing
in FY27. So for those three positions, let's say this is just an ish. Let's say each of those are at least $40,000 a yearish. So you're talking $120,000 plus whatever additional you would add
on for those health insurance that has to be thrown into the bucket and then multiply that by the 15% increase that we're going to have. So So that's how much more money we're going to need. What? So, we also have other sources of
income. Um, and so when the town says you're going to get an 3.5% increase or whatever that is, um, that dictates how deeper we have to go into our other sources. I I know
we're not going to ask you all for more money, um, because we all need it. We're all We're all drowning. um health insurance is eating us all. And so um our endowment draw is a huge portion of
of our annual operating budget. And to give you again a a glimpse of how much money we're talking about, we take this year it was like $350,000. So that's a 4% draw. um in order to take on an additional 120
130 140 150 160 I'm guessing I don't know that's adding on to the endowment draw so there's no way we're going to be able to do a 4% draw rate for next year um and and we'll be relying on fundraising I guess I just so I just want to leave
you with those are some numbers coming from the library um and I'm scared. I I'm scared at the thought of not getting as much as we can possibly get from the town um because we have to rely on the
other sources. So, I guess that's that's what I want to leave you with. Thank you. Um I want to just jump back quickly on the regional budget and that's to say that as we look at the impact of last year's assessment on the individual
towns um what it did and what has still not been completely verified yet is significantly uh reduce the amount of um tax capacity and free cash within those
other three towns. Um and um it's no secret Pelum has already said that if we they came up with 3.5% for uh the next regional budget, they would have to do an override because they only about have about 130 to
150,000 of excess tax capacity. The other two towns have talked more about the fact that they're uh they while they may have excess capacity, it's the residents and they're starting to squeeze out their long-term uh generational families uh based on the
taxes that are being charged to individuals across towns and that that's really a result of last year's, if you will, correction year in uh the actual budgeting. Anna, one more comment and then I really want to go to the town of
Ammerst and say, you know, what are we facing? >> I know and you can you can I was gonna say you can cut me off, but I I don't actually want to give that uh total permission there. So, my first thing I just I do want to note my gratitude for this conversation. I have felt very uh
I'm appreciating the what feels like a really good faith effort from everybody to have this. And so I'm I'm just I'm I'm struck by how uh much I've learned and how productive this has felt. Um so thank you even though I know that we're all uh like Sharon said, we are we're it's going to be a really really hard um
couple years. So couple questions here. First, I am curious for the region and the elementary um I guess or is still here. So, um, you know, the the town finance committee creates financial guidelines for the town manager that are broad in the sense of the percentage
increases, but they're also a bit more specific to municipal finance in terms of where we want to direct priority like what the priority areas for the finance finances are. And I am curious if the region or the elementary schools create something similar. This has been a question I've had for a while as to when
you are going into these meetings and I know Shannon and and Dr. Z have a and all of everyone else who works in this has a huge task ahead of them but I am curious how the schools prioritize this and this does not need to be a question that's right now because I know we're pressed on time but I just wanted to mention it. My other question was for
the libraries if it's okay to jump back for a minute. Sharon, you talked about the um the increased staffing, and my question is if those positions have been in your budget and have gone unfilled, meaning the salaries have gone back to free cash, or if these are additional
positions that are not currently built in, and so it's a full new ad of a position to a budget. Um, and then when you talk about increased costs, it's really the the additional increased costs like insurance that don't factor into that uh that open position. So there's salary and then the insurance is
my understanding and other benefits. And so my question is are these positions that you've held or have had open, not that you've held them open. So that the the salary line is in the um is in the budget and that has been returned or is this a fully new salary line?
>> Okay. Uh let's answer that question and then I want to move to Paul for the count for the town stressors. So when I say these are positions that the library has had, we have not filled them. They have not been in the budget
since 2019, since these three folks retired because I I just couldn't afford to fund them. So it's it's not that money was ever given back. I I didn't I wasn't given enough money to begin with, so I didn't have money to give back.
Does that answer your question? >> It does. You were using the funds that would normally go to pay those people for other operating costs for the library. >> No. So the town the town's appropriation doesn't cover 100% of our salaries. So I
take whatever I can get from y'all and fund whatever I can fund and then I use other sources to fill in. So usually state aid for example fills in that gap. But even for the past 5 years, I haven't had enough money available to me and
still stick to the 4% draw rate. But this year, because we're going back in FY27, because we're going back into the new library, I need those positions. So that's why the trustees are going to have to take a higher than a 4% draw rate. >> And your state aid has not kept up
proportionately either, >> right? >> Uh no, I mean it it increases, but it doesn't take on not by that much. Thank you for clarifying. >> Thank you. >> Because we are scheduled to only go to 2:00, although we may go beyond, I want to just suggest that I think we should
have our next BCG meeting on December 3rd at noon. And I want people to just tell me, we'll be polling for this, but at that point, the elementary school, if I'm correct, Shannon,
um, no, at that point, we will have the financial guidelines from the finance committee that have been presented to the town. We will not have either elementary or regional school budgets. Um, but this has been a good and rich
discussion. Uh we will poll for that date. We won't try to do anything here uh about that, but just hold that if you can on your calendar. Uh Paul, do you want to talk about and Sean, you want to talk about what's keeping you up at night besides
>> fires? >> Yeah, sure. Uh so just note that Sean and I have to leave at two. We have another meeting at two, so we will be leaving at two. Um so first off, I think it's really important to note that we start with when we make our budget presentations, we always start with revenues. We can't manufacture money. We
only have the revenues that we have, which is why we're incredibly transparent about what we share out. And so everybody can see where the revenues come from. If someone says, "I want more money," it means it has to come from something else. We know what our revenues are. So that's always our beginning point. And I think it's
important for us to recognize that. Um, you know, obviously the same things. I think the biggest, I mean, beyond health insurance, um, you know, I think we are in, you know, as Shannon mentioned there, collective bargaining. We are good with most of our collective bargaining agreements. We have two uh
DPW contracts that are unsettled. So that's an unknown going forward. Um in terms of the um you know we had we froze five positions last year um and those departments are struggling and you'll hear more you obviously are going to
hear more about those some of those departments. Um, we'd like to get back to full staffing for our public safety departments especially. Um, and so I think that and I think what the other piece of it really is that our expense we've never we really haven't
invested in our expense lines at all. You know, people have been living off vacancies, transitions, things like that. Uh, sometimes there's a a lag time between filling a vacancy. We and that's a benefit to us in terms of managing our fiscal resources. um it's not a it's not a good practice.
I don't condone it, but it it's one way for us to survive um our from our budgets. Um so Sean, anything you want to add? >> I think we touched on a lot of it during the Yeah. >> presentation earlier, but again,
capital, there's not only the four building projects, there's the roads. Um wastewater is a sort of a new emerging uh capital need. Um, so I think, yeah, we kind of touched on most of it.
>> Okay. Uh, is there any, uh, buddy, the councelor Heni, Andy Steinberg, uh, Anna or myself that want to add to that list as long as you added roads and the other capital. The other piece I will just say
that we keep hearing about other desires for additional capital. We are making an investment in our senior center. Uh but you know, our seniors have are having senior center envy when they look at other towns and they're seeing beautiful
new senior centers and they're not getting it. Uh and it's nowhere on anybody's list. Uh Andy, >> yeah, just a general comment. Uh you we have the same stress that all of you do,
but you probably read more about our stresses at times in the paper because we have lots of u people who ask for lots of new things and uh they come up with uh expansion of
crest or uh to try and have larger staffing and provide more hours of service is just one example. Um, and it's hard because um, we know that we have a creative community that doesn't
ask these things if they haven't thought through what the need is. But um we have a very difficult choice that we always have to make which I'm sure is not different from um any other budgeting
source having been through this and other other places besides uh town government. Um but I had you know have been very open about the fact that um we have to be clear about what it is that
we're adding and how we can fund it if when people raise those questions and uh so I just wanted to make that general observation that you know the demands are out there and we have hard hard time
saying no and I I appreciate the fact that um all of you have a hard time saying no too who are representing other groups besides the town. So um let me just try to set the table a
little bit for our next meeting and that is that by the time we meet uh next we will have a draft set of financial guidelines that at least will have had one discussion with the Ammersttown Council that will happen on December
1st. If we meet on the third, I think one of our goals at that point will be to talk about what our guidelines would be and if there are things that we want to u raise as part of that because that's really where the heart of this
conversation goes. Um are there other and then as we go through that I'm sure there's going to be other things. We may also have some updates. Um, and Isa mentioned earlier because Shannon, you've been very gracious to give us uh
we won't have a regional or a Ammeris uh school budget at that point. Um, but we hopefully um we'll be able to continue this discussion. Are there other things people want to make sure we hit on the
next meeting? I see guidelines as the most important discussion. Okay. Um, yes, Councelor Hani, >> I apologize. I don't know whether you're going to have hearing in the background here. >> I know.
Um but I I think once the guidelines are issued a a um maybe a preliminary report on where people think their operating expenses increasing are are going um you know in in terms of collective bar in
terms of personnel in terms of other expenses you know um so that maybe we know the extent of the >> the names of the folks >> problem I challenges that that we're facing across And I understand that's not going to be solid set in stone for
any of the four municipalities, but helping having some sort of idea of how bad it is. >> I'm near so that would be looking forward and then also any updates on things that we talked about today like insurance, what
we see happening federal or state dollars and how that might impact us. Any other comments or questions? It's 1:54 and we're going to adjourn this meeting. Okay. Thank you so much.
Very good conversation. >> Thanks. Yeah.