Great. Thank you. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Community Preservation Act Committee on January 22nd, 2026. Um I'll call this meeting to order
and welcome you all here for our second night of deliberations after a very full season with 16 proposals. Um, I don't have any specific announcements.
I don't know if any member of the committee or the town has any announcements. Then I think we can move along to approve minutes. We have two sets of minutes. Um, thanks to Tim and to Jason for taking care of those. And I think we
should take them one at a time just to um vote to approve or make any adjustments. Um we'll start with the December 11th, 2025 set of minutes that Jason produced.
Did anyone have any corrections or changes to those minutes? Okay. Okay. Well, then I would entertain a motion to approve. >> So moved. >> I second. >> Thank you. Um and why don't we do our
roll call vote and we'll start with Ellen. >> Uh yay. >> Bob. >> Hi. >> Tim. >> Hi.
>> Angus. >> Hi. Robin, >> hi. >> Jason, >> hi. >> Mark, >> I'm going to abstain. I was not there. Please. >> Okay. And I am voting I. So,
um, those minutes will be approved with one abstension since Mark was not in attendance that meeting. Thank you. And last week's meeting where then will be totally up to date um January 15th
was um produced by Tim. Thank you Tim. Um do we have any corrections or additions to those minutes? Any updates? >> I just wanted to note that I did I put the link in. >> Thank you.
>> Those and I added that um the staff members were present. I think that's all I did, but I just wanted to make >> Yeah. I think Did we Did you update the There were a couple of names that I noted. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay, great. >> Yeah.
>> Okay, good. So, I would entertain a motion to approve um with those additions, amendments. Motion to approve the minutes of January 15, 2026. >> Some moved. I second.
>> Second. Great. Thank you. And we'll do a roll call vote to approve the minutes from the 15th starting with Ellen. >> Hi. >> Bob. >> I >> Tim. >> Hi. >> Angus. >> Hi
>> Robin. >> Hi >> Jason. >> I >> Mark. >> Hi. >> And I am an I. So, those minutes are approved. Thank you very much.
And we do need a minute taker for tonight. I don't know if I haven't been keeping track that's on me of Did everyone already take a turn? >> Excuse me.
>> I haven't done it. >> Oh, Angus. Really? Good. Thank you for being >> Do you mind? I'm going to do you mind if I volunte you'll get a link to the recording so we can make that easy for you.
Great. Okay. Um, so now the meat of the matter, discussing our all of our proposals. Um, I had I this is this is a proposal I I just
thought maybe this might help us um get through a few quickly. Um, and I'm I'm happy to go the way of the the the will of the committee, but I was thinking when I looked through all of our averages from last week and kind of
where we landed, I wondered if it might be helpful to start with the five projects that have an average rating of 4.1 or more where we have like a lot of not total agreement by any means, but you know, there's more
agreement thinking perhaps might not be the case, but there won't be as much um lengthy discussion on these. Um and then move to the six that were
like the most divergent um that were rated like 3.5 or lower. And you know, if we sort of keep at a pace, 10 to 15 minutes per proposalish, you know, we'll we could have gotten
through, you know, 11 or 12 of these um possibly and sort of see where we're at at about two two and a half hours. Um, I'm happy to just start from the top and
work our way down, but it was just one way of looking at it. Sort of organizing our conversations. >> I think that's a great idea. Just we got we'll leave the hard work ahead of us and do the easy work first. I think that's a great idea.
>> We we could we could do the opposite and, you know, dive into the tough ones. I just um hoping to get through as many as we can today. Um, and I actually don't know which the tough ones are because we we had a lot of discussion about two projects last
week. So, we may have a lot of discussion about every single one of these. Um, Leah, you have a question or a comment or a good suggestion. >> Well, I just didn't know if you wanted me to share the straw poll again. >> Oh, well, let's let's Yeah, once um we agree,
then I think we should put that up on on the screen so we can all be looking at it. What do Bob's in favor of this kind of structure of approaching the sort of the 4.1 and better which is I'll just let you know it's the um ACLT the land
trust the bath house the civil war tablets Simeon Strong and the part-time planning coordinator housing coordinator those are the ones that we kind of had some similarities that good to go with
those. Okay. Hearing no objections or other fantastic ideas for how to approach this. Um I was hoping somebody would have like a brilliant, you know, uh hack and that we could uh get through this.
But each one of these proposals folks took a lot of time. They're working hard at them. They're really important to the town. So, we want to give the give them the the time um and consideration. So,
with that said, yeah. Um Leah, if we want to Oh, Ellen, you had a question or >> um a fine with that. I just wonder if we want to tackle hard ones first when we're fresh as opposed to leaving them to the end of the meeting when we might
be more tired and hungry. But just a thought. >> Great great point. >> It's a good point. >> I'm recovering from the flu, so I might not be thinking straight. So that's I'm
happy to excuse me have a a better suggestion. >> There's no right or wrong way to do it. It was just throwing that out there. All of them be discussed. So >> yeah, I mean I would I wouldur concur
that that seems like might be a better approach to do the small refresh because Katie is now when it gets to 8 o'clock where you know >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, sometimes we're more efficient at 8 o'clock.
>> That's true, too. >> I don't necessity is the mother of all um efficiencies. No. So that's fine. Um I'm happy to go along with that. Um, and as I separated these out, there's still a few sort of in the middle. So, you know, I didn't cover
them all in those two groups, but um, so those that were sort of rated 3.5 or lower was the historical survey, the Jones library, the wreck and conservation signage, North and South Cemetery
Restoration, Goodwin Church, and pickle ball. So why don't we start with those and um I had asked based on um some conversation last meeting I had asked
Robin um who's meeting with the the historic commission was meeting this week to talk about um an approach to Goodwin Church and she has an update on that. So, actually, why don't we start? Oh, Robin.
>> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Oh, did you have a question though? >> No. No. I mean, no, no, keep going. >> I Sorry, I'm looking at one screen and then I keep seeing your hand being raised. So,
um, there was a question about Goodwin Church at the last meeting. I thought we should just take that one because Robin has a proposal based on some information that she and the historic commission have for how to approach that particular proposal this cycle. And I wanted to put
that in front of you all to consider. Um as you remember we had a proposal they came before the historic commission in October. They did not come and present to us. However, we don't have a
um a specific requirement that you must otherwise you will be disqualified. You must present to us or you'd be disqualified. It doesn't state that in the materials. So, I was willing to press ahead and sort of review them on the merits of the
written proposal. Um but because of the application to for historic preservation and the sort of challenges of the application not maybe um aligning
quite yet with that historic preservation um we thought maybe we need to look at it slightly differently. So that I'll leave that to Robin to share and for all of you to discuss. >> Okay. Is it right for me to go ahead, Katie? >> Yes, please.
>> Yeah. So, um uh we met at the historical commission. We talked about um some of the factors. Um and again, I didn't have time to do my homework on pre on uh previous applications, but in my historical memory anyway, I think that
we had a circumstance where we set aside funds. We had an ask, I believe it was from the North Church, that we set aside um for later deliberation. Um due to similar questions around the proposal. >> So, we talked about that as a strategy
and in particular highlighting the concern about um this building and the congregation um that marginalized communities um are usually at um a deficit in terms of the community resources that they have to
draw on to bring something like this forward. So, I didn't want um I didn't want the challenges they were having with making the proposal to necessarily um delay the project for another year when it sounds like they're having pretty significant water um issues. So,
we agreed uh the commission agreed that that was a good approach to take and to recommend to the CPA. um headed startup um our commissioner who's done uh research on both that church and hope church both uh historically African-American congregations offered
to reach out because we hadn't heard from the congregation and today she updated me that sadly um their pastor uh Mary Smith Gomez who was with us um at that October
uh I believe it was October 10th meeting um passed away. She passed away in early December. So that may be why um the congregation hasn't been in in touch with the town and um she and Joel Greenbomb have made tenative plans. Joel
is also on the historical commission to uh meet with a representative to do a site visit and take photographs and try to um uh re um connect with the community to see about bringing this
project forward. there's the potential for um MHC emergency stabilization funds. So, I'd like to get them in touch with them. Um so, that's that's one option for funding. But in the meantime, even before I learned about the news about their pastor, um I was going to
propose the idea that we take the 48,000 um that they requested and set it aside, which wouldn't be an award for the proposal, but it would be a set aside for those funds so that they could be awarded if the proposal could come to us at a later date when they're ready and
with better information um to see the project move forward. And again, because it's um a water uh infiltration issue, that puts the building at risk. Um it's it's a it's on the National Register. It's a high priority uh project from the historical
commission's perspective. And that's basically what I'm putting on the table today. So, we wouldn't need to even deliberate about um the project. We would just um see if that would be an agreement that we could do to sort of set aside those funds.
>> Thank you, Robin. So that Oh, it looks like Sean has his hand up. But just to reiterate, the idea here is not to um spend time on the proposal because it's maybe not as um well, you know, as prepared for this particular set of
funds as it might be. It might also be eligible for other funds. And so if we could delay it from a decision till the spring or you know till further down the road, you could let us know and we could either reconvene in the spring to
review and deliberate and decide or that funding would go back into the to be available for next year is what you're saying. Okay, >> that's basically it. Yep. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Sean. It looks like you
had >> just adding to what both of you said, which is that this group would have to recommend a budgeted reserve. So, you'd be set aside some of your funds this year. >> Um, and then they, as Robin mentioned, they'd have to come back and still present through the group and go through
the hearing and everything, all the regular CPA process. >> But if you don't do that, then you can't really consider that project again until the next CPA cycle. So, if you want to have the ability to, you know, award the funds before the next CPA cycle, which would really push it out quite a ways,
um, Robin's approach makes sense. >> Yeah, that's a great way to frame it, Sean. It's really that's the decision for the committee is we could vote yay or nay today to fund it. Um, I think based on Robin's recommendation,
it doesn't feel like it would be um it doesn't sound like the historic commission is is thinking that it's ready to be approved. So, we would probably have to um deny it, which means that the funding for CPA, they'd have to come back next year and that wouldn't be
available till July of 27 for this water d to attend to this water damage. So, this is just a possibility of getting them funding earlier than that to deal with it um should the historic commission be able to work with them on this.
>> Yeah. >> So, any um reaction comments from the committee or questions or a proposal? Yes, Ellen. Would would the church have to reapply and and and
resubmit an application? Then >> the way we did it with North Churches that we we worked with them to revise the application, >> okay, >> to better meet the historic needs um the criteria for for historic um
preservation funding and you know put a plan together to help them achieve what they were trying to achieve. And that's what we we came back and we as a committee we sort of finished our deliberations. We um presented our recommendations to the town and then we
came back with that reserved funding and made another round of um recommendations to fund the north church. That's how we did it last time. Angus. >> Uh, yeah. I I guess if this is something
this committee has done before, then I'm open to the idea. I don't like it. Um, I I feel like that the town works with applicants to try and help them get their proposals in shape. We gave questions ahead of time that that they
did not respond to. So I I don't love the idea of creating special dispensations especially um for primarily religious communities. Um but um I I I hear what Robin is saying about
um you know the nature of this project. Um it's not a ton of money, but at the same time I guess I'm just uncomfortable with creating a separate process. And it also feels a little bit like it would be a fade to complee that if we're if we'd be voting to set aside the funds. Um I
guess we we could if they don't bring anything, you know, choose not to do it. But if they did bring something, it feels like we'd already have set aside the funds. It would be difficult to say no. So I'm a little uncomfortable with that as well. >> Thank you, Tim.
>> Um I would echo those comments. I also hesitate to right now at the beginning of the process before we've even discussed all the other projects. We're so tight with money. I do not feel comfortable in making that decision right now. >> I would I would suggest we wait to
discuss this at the end and if we really feel we have some money we can set aside, fine. If we're really really tight, I'm not sure I would agree with doing that. Yeah, that seems like a a good proposal. I I I don't think we have to decide.
We're not deciding anything this minute anyway. We're just deciding whether or not to discuss it um and decide to go forward or to set aside some funding. So, if you pref, you know, we could wait till the end to have that particular conversation.
Robin, did you have another additional >> Yeah, I just wanted to speak to the issue of it being um an active congregation. Um it's challenging sometimes to separate the two, but um the guidelines are generally around um CPA funding for historic church active
historic uh congregations is to see the not the church. It's it's challenging, but not to say the church congregation as the recipient as sort of a a default recipient of the benefit of it, but it's the building that is
maintained as part of the historic fabric of town going forward in time. So, as long as that the funds are not used to promote um to promote the mission of of the church or or the
religious entity, um those that funding is allowed. And so we could look view it as any historic building that's you know under threat of further degradation due to um you know weather intrusion. >> And we have funded
lots of historic churches around the town as through CPA in the past. >> Um Angus, do you Yep. >> Yeah. I just wanted to clarify it. I I very much understand that um Robin and I appreciate you clarifying that again. I
think if we're thinking of a special dispensation because the congregation itself has not reached out to us and because of the death of a clergy person, I do think that those things are related to what we're discussing. Um I understand the funding will not go to the congregation, but that's why I'm a
little uncomfortable with some of this special um dispensation. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, we will set that aside. Thank you Robin for um you know looking into that and providing some options for us
to consider. Um okay well why don't we jump into see um do I'm happy to put have Leah put up the the spreadsheet. Is that helpful to folks? Yeah, Tim loves that. Okay,
great. And then we'll start with the historic the district one historic survey. I think that's sort of top of list. Oh boy, I'm gonna have trouble. >> I did sort them into order. >> Oh, >> so hi.
>> Wow. Thank you, Leah. >> All right, so then well, let's start with the Wait, hold on. So, should we start based on Ellen's recommendation? Start at the bottom. Yes, let's do it.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'm looking for um committee comments, procon, how you're thinking about and how you would like to lean to vote for the Mil River passive
recreation history survey. Robin. >> Okay. Glad we are starting fresh on this one. Um, okay. The historical commission did not give a, let me just look at my notes
here, did not give a position on this in terms of high, medium, or low. um basically based on the nature of what was proposed in the budget um in further discussions with um Brian
Harvey, Brian Harvey and I emailed back and forth and I think I mentioned in previous meetings here about the potential for so this project involves um All right, I have to think about my my how I'm going to present my present
my argument here. This is a request for historic preservation funds. This the work that is being undertaken is research. Um, the way that we get to research supporting historic preservation funds
by my read is through guidance that I have from my files from many many um, CPAs ago about um, basically documentation of historical resources that helps the town manage existing historical resources
is an allowable use of CPA funds. So given that that's the case and we talked about um one of the kind of gold standards for a town um being able to manage its historic resources is to have a macro an up-to-date macros inventory
form. So for example, right now the historical commission has before a request for demolition of uh a property in East Ammerst and um we have an outdated form. So we need to do some more research for it which is yeah you know adds time to the process. So
updated macros inventory forms are um useful a useful product that could come out of this this um proposal. So from my perspective from this profession, my recommendation was that we
that we make that a a condition of the funding. And um Brian sent to me uh a spreadsheet of resources where I tallied 39 existing historic properties that have outdated
forms that um that need updating. And the preparation of a macros form in a large survey that's funded through the state could be about $300 for a form. It could also go up to about
$1,000 for a form um depending on who's funding the production of it. So um >> Robin, I'm sorry to interrupt. Could I ask a quick question? >> Sure. >> It's it sounds like you're talking about number um four. Oh, are we not talking
about I'm sorry. Are we talking about >> I was I was wondering the same thing. This is under recreation. >> My bad. Okay, just take all that shelvet >> or we could just I could just keep going and we could finish with that one. I'm not sure where that is in the ranking.
>> Well, so I I'm sorry. I thought we had discussed but this is my this is my I'm I'm having trouble uh with the see reading and so
Lee I would need your help and sort of guiding us to like what is the first one we should be talking about. I thought it was >> yeah it was it's because they both start with history of the Mil River and so I jumped in >> and originally it was under historic preservation and then it went to the
committee. So I am talking about the one that is about midway through the pile. So >> this is the recreation one for 85,000. >> And did we not speak about this last time? We talked about >> we did we did talk about it.
>> Okay. So I wasn't going to re to talk about that again or the slate roof in the bulk of the today's matter. I mean we certainly are going to have to go back to those to kind of put a fine tune on it. Is that okay with all of you?
So then I guess what we're saying >> Katie, can you clarify? We're still deliberating projects similar to what we did last week, correct? >> Yeah, we're going pro project by project
and we have reviewed two projects to date. The slate roof and I thought I could be wrong. I'm again I haven't been feeling well but I thought it was this the um signage
for the Mill River. Is that Can someone Leah can someone verify that's what we >> Yes that that is correct. >> Ellen, thank you. Um I the discussion being that out of the two people would like to do the
completion one first. or there that's higher priority because survey the second half of it. Yeah. >> Right. Um and Jason, yes, we are going to talk about each one. What we were trying to decide is the order and maybe I got
everyone too confused um by trying to divide this up and I'm now un I'm just not as able to see this version that is in front of us. So um >> the the one the >> start from the top I'm sorry
>> if we at the top we have the highest ranked um um >> okay >> projects and the bottom we have the lowest ranked and my again my apologies I jumped in because I thought we were talking about the survey. The lowest ranked one was the passive recreation.
The next lowest ranked one Katie is the um Jones library restoration and preservation. Okay. So, I see that Bob and Tim have their hands up. Do you have a recommendation for I I'm going to propose that we go to
the Jones Library. Um um >> I yeah I was just going to say I took the minutes last time and regarding the uh the North Ammeris projects the committee agreed that we were preferring
to do the study before we did any signage and we've already discussed that. So I would suggest we not discuss that any further right now and so if you want to go to the that's fine. >> Okay. Thank you Tim. I appreciate that.
Bob, did you have >> Yeah. Um, question. Do we want to give any consideration of partial or full funding in this element of the discussion or leave that till later?
I think it's fine to sort of naturally talk through like if if folks in their conversations say things like I really want to support this Jones Library project but only X and for this amount of money that's a great way to to
get conversation going in deliberations people can react and respond to that. I don't think we need to put any money into here unless we're in unless there's a lot of consensus, right? That would be great to start getting a shape of like, oh, we're heading in that direction, you
know? Does that sound okay? >> Yep. Sounds good. >> Yeah. So, please feel free as you're going through your comments, excuse me. um to I I mean in my own you know rankings
I was trying to play with different dollar amounts. So you're welcome to share that. You know I know last week Tim said something during the slate roof of like he wasn't necessarily in favor of bonding. He'd like to he had a proposal for you know funding the whole thing
outright. So you know when we get down to it we can have that you know we can have continued conversation about that. Um, okay. So, it is 6:30 and we're thrashing about here. So, I would um I I think we
should >> I highlighted the ones that we've discussed already. So, >> great. >> Maybe that'll help. >> Oh, >> can you see them? Can you not see all of it? >> I can. I can. I'm just my um the screen
that this is on is just very small, so I apologize. Um Okay. I see that you put green and >> so the next up from the bottom >> started talking about that number four but I don't think we we're in you know we could continue with that
since Robin has started it. Why don't we do that folks since it's fresh. >> Is that okay with everybody? >> No. >> Okay. So, let's Was that a no? >> Did Tim say no? >> I was gonna say no. I
>> Okay, that's fine. Related. I thought we discussed that last week and we should just spend our time discussing all the elements. >> No, the his this history that what what Robin was talking about she >> Well,
you were talking about the 125,000 mil river, right Robin? >> 125,000 for research. Yes. Yeah, we've discussed that last week and we concluded that uh I thought we had a thorough discussion and we were going to discuss
other things today tonight. So I I would not feel comfortable. That's just me. Yeah, we we agreed that or I think the majority agreed that of the two proposals, completing the survey is much more important and that we would like to
see funds go toward that as opposed to the passive recreation component and and hold that for another year once. >> Yes. >> Yes. But we we hadn't actually talked about the survey and whether or not you know everybody was in favor of it sounds
like your recollection Ellen was that the majority was in favor of funding it. We don't know about the full amount. So that's something we could touch on um later. >> Yeah, that's fine. We can do it later.
>> Okay. All right. So, >> and then I Katie, I just while I'm here, I just want to s just to go on the record to remind everyone that I'm recusing myself from discussion around the Jones library and Civil War tablets, >> right? Thank you. Okay, so apologies for the confusion
here. Um, so I think we are now going to start from the bottom and the next one is the restoration and preservation of the Jones Library request. So I would take
committee member comments for against and again if you have some suggestion around the amount um please share and Angus you had your hand up first. >> Sure I can start us off. Yeah I I uh
rated this pretty lowly. Um, I I know that the CPA gave uh the Jones Library um I think over a million dollars last year. Um, and I guess I'm getting a little bit concerned that um every year the Jones Library could come back asking for a million.
>> It was actually a million dollars in 2020, Angus. >> Okay. Oh, >> the um Okay. There the debt there's not a debt that we've that we're paying on. >> Yes. there that that that commitment was
made in 2020 and because the project was delayed, the debt wasn't started. Yep. >> Okay, that's helpful to know. >> The debt is in the blue part at the bottom of the Excel spreadsheet. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that it was approved in 2020. Um
>> yeah. >> So, um regardless, um uh I am not wild about the idea. um especially when there's so many other more to me more pressing um projects that large capital
projects that need work. Um and uh I'll also um just say that I you know that the town is committed to this project um and other projects the town doesn't hasn't necessarily committed to like the war memorial project which is um a much
higher priority from from all of us. So, I would be we I know there's we've gotten a ton of support, a ton um of opposition to this um particular request, but I just think if we didn't have $4 million more requests than we
can really spend, I'd say let's go for it. But um I'm concerned that there are higher priorities. >> Thank you, Jason. I uh I echo a lot of what Angus said and
I also have uh some I guess concern about the fact that this money was is part of the $46 million budget and then you know we have 15.8 million roughly from the town.
So if this money is fully funded at the 1 point let's just call it 1.25 25 million. Does that increase the amount from the town from 15.8 to, you know, 17 something? Does it decrease it by the
1.25 million? Um, and then >> this is from this is from the Jones Library, Inc. request. So, they're it's not >> right. But this is town this is taxpayer money. This isn't this isn't
this isn't money. This isn't um philanthropy. This is taxpayer money. >> Yeah, it's it's it's state. >> It's money that a town >> I view it I view it like that. It's not this isn't philanthropy. It's taxpayer money. So,
um, it's, you know, in effect town money, and that may not be the right way to look at it, and I'm open to being told why that's wrong, but, um, this isn't philanthropy in my opinion.
So, I also have some issues with the way that the previous money was spent. um or at least I don't know if we've been given a clear answer as to how that money was spent or if it was spent on what it was actually
supposed to be spent on. Um and I'm a little concerned about moving forward with a project with this included in the budget but not knowing where the money is going to actually come from. So Jason, that's a really good point. And I did ask Sean
and or Dave, someone from the town, to respond since there had been some public concerns raised about the original. >> Yeah, I can speak to it, Katie, if that's okay. >> Yeah, I was that's fine. Thank you, Sean. >> Yeah, so the the Jones Library project
has multiple funding source. It has uh local borrowing, MBSC state aid payments, um fundraising, and then the CPA grant that was awarded. And so as we get bills, you know, the project, the bills that we pay, they're not divied
out by what source. We have to decide what source gets charged. Um so the the CPA source is a little tricky. It is for special collections, but we don't get bills that say, you know, here's this this construction invoice is just special collections. we just get monthly construction invoices for all the work
that's been done. Um, so that being said, we we do have to come up with a as a town and as as a business office, we have to come up with a logic for how we charge the CPA portion because it is supposed to be for special collections. Um, so we're going to look at that account and I, you know, I talked it
over with Leah. What we're going to do is we're going to do a percentage of the construction invoices that's equivalent to the percentage of the square footage of the building that is for special collections. So roughly 8 to 10% of the building is um of the of the new space
that's being constructed is for special collections. And so as we get invoices um we're going to assign roughly that percentage of those uh construction invoices to that account. So that will change the amount that's been charged there so far. Um that's been that's all within this fiscal year. So there's
there's money moving back and forth between the different funding sources to line it up properly. And uh so yeah, so we will make sure that only the dollars that represent a share related to the special collections gets charged to that account.
But just to clarify again, like we don't get like an invoice that says here's you know just the special collections um you know foundation work or just the special collections um carpentry work. It's that's not how the invoices come through. So Sean, just to clarify, I think I
understood this that um you know, in a $45 million, $46 million project, there's you're you're pulling lots of different funds from lots of different sources in the end. Everything has to tie out and you're
saying that you the town will do that and has a commitment to that based on um >> Yeah, absolutely. and and before this, you know, go I don't remember if it's FY20 or FY 21, but before the first CPA award was was awarded, we got a report from the architect that said that, you
know, the value of the special collections um you know, work related to the building was well over a million dollars. That's, you know, sort of how they settled at around a million, but it was it actually exceeded that. But yeah, when this project is over, >> all the different pieces will be charged the correct amount.
>> And just you're you're correct. We deliberated in 2020 but it was for fiscal to start the approval from the town was for fiscal year 21 I think. So any questions for Sean on that because
that was an important thing to you know Jason wrote raised up because others have asked that same question. I I guess I'd like to see the the the original CPA application and was it a
general special collections or was it for like archival boxes and a new you know CMS system or >> Yeah, it's on the so the special collections um that request is on the website and we can share it out with the committee. Um but it's for the walls,
the you know equipment and things like all the pieces that were related to special collections. Yeah. >> Okay. Tim. >> Yes. Uh I mentioned uh earlier that I am not recusing myself. However, uh the
committee and the public needs to know. I was very involved with the fundraising for the Jones Library and its support. Uh I have no financial benefit from any decision I make uh regarding the Jones
Library and I wanted to make that clear. So I am going to vote uh about this project uh and uh just want to make that clear up front. Now the I my understanding is this request of 1.2
is in fact not part of the $15.8 million. It's a different money. Uh it is being asked is being proposed by the Jones because of two reasons. one uh at
the beginning of the project, the project cost has has skyrocketed as everyone knows. Secondly, the library lost a million dollar grant from the federal government. And we can go into the politics and all that, but nevertheless, they did lose that money.
Uh and the historic preservation decisions of the state, local, and so forth required more significant uh upgrades than originally thought. So the library had to make some decision in terms of how it would be able to raise
the funds to do that. So it is requesting this 1.25 million uh as additional funds to what they originally thinking of because of those reasons. Um
my proposal that funding if it is not approved if the CPA uh awards zero the library is going to have to find other sources other than the town. It's going to have to hope that fundraising would
be able to uh come up with some of those source monies and it's going to have to uh hope that maybe additional grants can come. But uh the town is committed to the 15.8 through regular taxation. The CPA funds
are an addition to that. Um I am going to propose and just I'm not going to do it right now, but I think this is one of my criteria for approving CPA requests is the number of people that are
affected by the project. I give uh less weight to projects that affect only a small area of the population and significant uh points if you will for projects that affect the great great majority of
citizens in town. >> And I think the Jones Library falls into that category. So I strongly feel we should support the Jones. I'm not comfortable with the total dollar amount simply because of the number of other projects and good projects we had this
year. So at some point I think we should as a committee make some decision to approve funding but at a lesser amount. I'm not prepared now to propose what that lesser amount would be. And >> thank thank you Tim. >> Yep.
>> Ellen. Oh, >> I think Jason was before me. >> I know, but you haven't spoken yet, so I'm just I'm going with folks who haven't haven't spoken. >> Yeah, just following up on what Tim said, um I do think we should consider that that milliondoll fund federal grant
was um taken away. Um and I also agree that we could consider different aspects of funding this. Um, I know the historical commission recommended funding the all the interior
woodwork or mill work and the outdoor trim work but probably not the windows and they there was some question whether the windows fell in under uh historic preservation even though it was required to do the windows by the state historic
preservation. Um, so you know, I I would like to I agree. I think the Jones Library is is, you know, integral to our town and the well-being of its citizens.
And um so I I know it is a lot of money considering that we don't have enough to go around this year, but um I I'm just putting out that we could look at it peace meal as opposed to as one giant lump sum.
>> Okay. Thank you, Jason. If you don't mind, I'll take Bob's and then come to you. Um just very quickly I think the amount is very big and bad timing uh given our limited resources. I think the argument about federal funds being
withdrawn that really is a big pool effect on all the funds that we have to allocate. So I don't think that's necessarily exceptional. I think a lower amount a substantial lower amount I would be much more supportive of than
the full amount. Thank you, Jason. >> Um, yeah, I as far as the something that Tim said and that the project that this these
requirements are way more than was originally anticipated or were thought to have been necessary when putting the original budget together. That's where like I get pretty queasy with a $46 million project and then like, oh, we
didn't know we were going to have to do the slate roof or we didn't know we were going to have to do this historical preservation. Like that's a lot of money and a lot of stuff to be surprised by after this project is in
my opinion has been like rammed through. And then I know there's a lot of backstory and this is a project that is like 10 years in the making or more, but the way that it was, at least for the time that I was here, the way that it was presented,
it just seems like like I doubt that the $46 million is actually going to be the cost at the end of this project. Um, and given that it's like a third that the request is for the a third of
the amount of money that we have to potentially allocate to projects, it's it's a really big ask and I'm not comfortable with like the planning and this like this notion that it was kind of a surprise that this was that this had to
be done. And if it is a surprise, that's just really bad project management. >> Thank you, Jason. Um I I I'm not sure I'm not going to speak for Tim, but my understanding was that it the costs
increased due to cost increase, you know, not not a surprise um need, but more like over the course of, as you say, 10 years. Not that it was rammed through, but like this has been a long ongoing project through COVID that then,
you know, prices obviously for all of us have changed dramatically. But that's that was my that's been that's my perspective. Um I'm just looking at our I'm want to get to Angus and just looking at our time. It's already almost seven. So, if we
could start, I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to speak to this and I'll share my comments after Angus. Sure. Um, it's very quick. It's a question for Tim because I found that helpful to get a sense of of, you know,
how this is falling for the uh library. Um, so this work, this historical work has to happen regardless of whether we fund it or not. Correct. >> Uh, yes. >> Yes. Okay. Um I think I think that's
that's helpful to know. Um and I think the only other thing that I I would say is that it's it's tough. The town has a lot of deferred um capital projects that need that need attention. And the Jones Library was one huge one. The elementary
school, the uh town hall, slate roof. So it's tough. It's going to be a tough decision. Thanks. >> Yeah. Thank you, Angus. I appreciate that. And I think I um I just would say for my own sake and my own perspective, I having been on this committee for a
while, I I do um I was thrilled last week when Sean told us we had more money because I do think it gives us a little bit more flexibility, especially if we use some um borrowing power. I think we can do a
lot more. And I I think this particular project, while we may not be able to fund the full amount by by any means, I think we can, as Bob said, um you know, provide a significant amount of funding to support the continue to support this important
um project for our town. And um so I would be in favor of funding it, but perhaps um a portion of what's been requested. And as Ellen said, the historic commission had a recommendation. I don't know if it was tied to actual dollars because I had
looked high and low for that. Um it was tied to the type of work. Um so I'm not sure we might need some help from the town or from the applicant to to understand what amount of money would
be for the mill work and um if folks are interested in that. So that would be where I I'm leaning. Any other comments on Jones questions? Okay, great.
All right, moving on. Um, it's pickle ball. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. And it looked like we had um you know a few ones and a five and a
four. You know it was a little bit all over the place. So if folks could um if you're on the on the one vote if you could let us know sort of how you're feeling or on the five then that would be helpful. All right. Great. Bob, start with you. >> I'm not against pickle ball. I think
it's a great sport. Um again this is a timing issue. Bad year to apply. I also think it's binary. It's either all or nothing with respect to this project. And Dave, you might be able to correct me on that. And the last thing is we
have so many recreational facilities in this town that need tuning up that to add another one to the capital expenditure moving forward, another asset to be maintained just seems a little prleant right now.
Thank you, Bob. Jason, >> um I echo what Bob said, especially about the fact that we have a lot of facilities and seems like it's always a struggle to actually maintain them and to pay for their maintenance. Um, as as
well as the uh kind of all or nothing aspect of this project, I also ranked it at a one because we currently have pickle ball courts up at Mil River or at least relined tennis courts at Mil River that seem to be working and we
I believe Dave said there have not been any noise complaints. Um, there's also a league, there's Hampshire College, there are places for folks to play, albeit they're not necessarily owned by the town or, you know, I guess free of cost.
But um other than the ones at Mil River and again the again I agree with Bob as far as the timing it's a big ask for projects whose costs like half of the cost of the project were like in the
access road and kind of in the site choice as opposed to like the pickle ball courts themselves were were not nearly as much. So, um I think that the
the sighting of it at at um uh uh adds a lot of cost to it that is not um not going to be borne out in any usable
feature. It's just based on the site. Um so that's those are the reasons why I give it a one. >> Great. Thank you. Appreciate that, Robin. >> Um, yeah, I give it a four. Um, I think
based on um the fact that it had huge community support prior came before us in a prior year. A lot of work put into figuring out a site, but a particularly bad year to be considering um that amount. And
then um I was just curious so so um four instead of a five thinking maybe this could be a project that's postponed. Um but my other thought is is there outside community fundraising that could go into reducing that figure.
>> So the you're you're in favor just to reiterate you're in favor >> I'm in favor of it generally. I don't think it's a great year for it. And I wonder also um given the all the projects that are before us and the
potential for further bonding whether there could be uh outside funds access to bring that ask down. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. In a future year. >> I think sorry Robin I interrupted you. I was just going to say that I I
similarly felt that um having seen this come before this CPA before and I'm in favor of having beautiful pickle ball courts but it is a tough year not as much funding to go around. It's a big
number. So could it be put off for a year? Could it be reduced? Um, I think there's be a lot more interest in community fundraising for pickle ball than there is for, you know, say a slate roof or, you know, some there's this cemetery renovate. I mean, there's some
things in here that are just so much harder to find funding for, period. And the CPA is really the place. So, I just wonder if that's a great if pickle ball could be a shared um if there could be other private
funding for that or other grants. Any other comments about pickle ball 4 or if you were voting for it today this minute, would you be voting in favor or a portion or
putting it off? hearing from Jason and Ramen. Anybody else? Bob said something. Jason, >> I would be in favor of potentially voting for a lesser amount, a sound
study or something along those lines, >> believe um peacemailing it as opposed to the all or nothing aspect of it. Okay. >> Thank you, Angus. >> Yeah, I think it should come back in a future year.
Okay, thank you Tim. >> I agree. There are other al alternatives for pickle ball. Uh would be great to have it but uh this is not the year. >> Okay.
All right. Well, the as just as a reminder, we'll by the end of today's session, you know, we'll we can ask the town for some support in terms of recommendations for prioritization based on how we are
feeling about these projects. So, they can come back to us at the next meeting with, you know, possible ways of approving some some of these um and, you know, bonding some or not. So, we'll get their input.
Um, >> picked the wrong time to be late and um >> Oh, is that Jonas? Hi. >> Yeah, so sorry. I completely spaced on every reminder everywhere on my computer, my phone. Um, and so I don't know that I can even weigh in at this
point. You've obviously have mold this over and um my initial five stands, but I don't know how much weight that would even have at this point. So, >> well, we're we're not making any decision. We're hearing everybody's input so that we can make a decision at a later date. So if you
>> But it seems like you've done you've kind of >> um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So >> Okay. >> I would like to hear why Jon has rated at a five. >> Uh they've been asking for this for two plus years. We've exhausted just about
every site. We did Stanley Park. There was um people saying it's too close. Uh there's a a lot of a lot of people are asking for this and uh this seems like a great site and David and Amy have done a lot of work on
it. Uh the rec the recck committee is in in favor of it and um it seems like uh it's the this especially the sound part of it has been with the sound study will um be taken
care of and that seemed to be the biggest practical obstacle to finally getting pickle ball in Ammerst and this site we think solves that. So, um, that's that's why I support it.
>> Thank you. That was very helpful. Dave, did you have a comment? >> Yeah. Um, completely understand from a staff standpoint, you know, the year the year you are all faced with and and all the demands, all the the great projects
that are before you. Um, I did just want to clarify that this is kind of I think it's it's G or or or nowhere. I I just want to be clear about that. We're not looking at any other sites. >> The reason we chose golf and yes, it
does add considerable cost is to have the pickle ball courts be, you know, 500 plus feet away from the nearest neighbors. So, you just can't achieve that anywhere else at any other recreation area, any other piece of town
property. So, um you know, if it's another year maybe, but you know, as as as uh committee members have commented, there are other options for pickle ball players um both private and public in surrounding towns, but I think um you
know, there might be some private fundraising opportunities. So, you know, uh I I heard the comments on partial funding, but um yeah, I just mainly wanted to comment on, you know, it's scrawl for or I think we kind of move on
to other other priorities within the recreation space as as Bob and others have said, there are other needs out there at at other recreation areas and we might have to to just prioritize those. But uh you know, we'll see how
how your deliberations go. Thanks. >> Thanks, Dave. So, what I what I heard is if folks are thinking, gee, I' I'd like it to be somewhere else. It's not going to be somewhere else. This is what the town has spent a huge amount of time figuring out the best possible scenario.
So, the question would be, can it be done next year versus this year? Could it be done with less money and some private support? um not where it's going to be. >> Yeah. I mean, we could possibly come back next year, but I you know, I just
don't know what the priorities will be. But, >> you know, again, you're you're faced with limited funds and and very good projects, very worthy projects. So, if that's the uh decision of the committee, then then we'll we'll we'll move
forward. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any other um questions or comments? Okay. Thank you all. Um moving on to the
North and South Cemetery Restoration, the $100,000 request for headstone repair and preservation. Any Robin, you've can start us off.
>> Yep. Um a This is a medium priority from U discussion of the historical commission. Um we've made great progress in headstone restoration. Um it's a hard year. Um it's uh the other projects that
we see before us have a higher priority. So, um, we would still want to see this work continue, but we understand if maybe a partial award would be more appropriate. Um, so that's basically that's basically that. If anybody has any questions about cemetery headstone restoration, they can
ask me. >> Thank you. Thank you, Bob. >> I'm gonna lower my score to a three. I I love our cemeteries just the way I love this late roof wall. I think these are
just, you know, we need to honor these older places in town. This is just not the year when when you're in a cemetery, you can see the degradation of the headstones. But on the other hand, they degrade on a very very slow depreciation
schedule. So I think we can postpone this one. >> Thank you. other comments, reactions, Ellen? >> Um, yeah, I think I I agree with Bob. I
I actually love our cemeteries, too, and I walk through them quite a bit. Um but um yeah, I I think in light of everything um we might I gave it a three because I just didn't feel the urgency
even though I know, you know, it does happen that things will get worse. Um but I also I I like Robin's idea. Maybe we just do one of the two cemeteries for 50,000. Um but again, we'll have to figure that out when we get to the nuts
and bolts of the financing. Mhm. Thank you, Jason. >> Yeah, I agree with uh the comments made that the while this project I think is valuable, it's not um uh as
urgent as some of the other projects that it it can wait. And I think I'd be in favor of reducing the amount to 50,000 for, you know, either one or that being split amongst the two, however
they see fit to use it or identifying their highest priority restoration needs. Um >> but yeah because it is a uh um a slow slow process um for those to
deteriorate. I I don't think the urgency is there as much as some of the other products this year. >> Okay. any I I would I would concur with all that said and either put it off for a year or reduce. And it sounds like the
majority of folks are similarly feeling. I mean, we could uh just put a placeholder in there of um an amount, but we could wait on that as well. And um
why don't we wait? I I take that back. So, um Oh, did Angus somebody put their hand up, but okay. Any other comments on the Northwest Cemetery? Sounds like we're
generally thinking along the lines of this is important. It's not maybe as urgent. Maybe we could reduce a slight amount or we could skip to another year. Okay. So, moving to the recreation and
conservation area signage. Who'd like to kick us off with that? Bob, >> sorry to jump in early here. Um, my concern about not funding this is that we've already done one trunch of
funding. The signs are starting to go into place. They make a huge difference for the town. I think getting those signs on a depreciation schedule that's delayed, especially since they're going to be weathered over time, I think is
awkward. So, I think we should have most of these signs roughly in the same three-year period. That way, when they deteriorate in 15 years, we come back with a a similar funding schedule in the
future. Thank you, Bob. Jason, >> um I I also feel that this project is not really a high priority as far as urgency is concerned. Um and
there have been a lot of signs in put in place. They do look good, but there are existing signs as well um that are there that still function. their signs. Um I I understand the desire to have a cohesive
look about the signs and have it, you know, look um look nice, but far as the the urgency of the project, this project, I just don't think it's there. um you know, and in 15 years or 20 years when new signs are needed,
um who knows where we're going to be at, if we're going to even have any money to um to maintain them. I don't know. Um, so I'm just thinking really about this year as far as the amount of money and the signs and and frankly some of the
signs that are out there with like the granite um I think those those are that's very expensive stuff and I don't even you know for $100,000 I can't recall the exact number of signs
that would be um that would be purch purchase with that amount of money, but I don't think it was very many. So, I also don't believe we're getting a whole lot of bang for our buck here on this project. I would be willing to entertain a lower
dollar value. >> Um, thank you, Tim. >> Yeah, I thought I'd make a comment since I'm the other five on this rating. Uh, I must admit I'm a big sign guy. I think the new signs in the town have added
immeasurably to the beauty and the uh uh cache, if you will, of the town. And I think having these signs would also improve that. And I think we've it's one of those projects where we've started it
and I'd like to kind of continue it as oppo and I'd rather and I weigh that too in terms of providing new funding. So that's the reason I gave it a five. >> Great. Thanks, Tim. Jonas, >> yeah, just I guess a point of
clarification or question. Um, the prior design work has been done. Is that right? There >> CPAC has resulted in designs. Mhm. >> So would there be a risk of pausing as
some are suggesting and having the fabrication wait a year? If there's none then that maybe is pretty important. Um like are the do we own the designs? If we own the designs and then we have the
luxury of just telling whoever will you know do the fabrication you need to wait a year and it won't cost us more then that's probably a important >> I think in the presentation the you know pushing it off the chances it would cost
more because >> of materials etc. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think and I do think some of the um the town Dave can respond to this that the design was done but also some of the signs have already been um
created and actually put in place. So this is to >> I don't think it's to finish it. Dave, it's it's but it's to or is it to complete the whole project? >> Yeah, I've heard a couple of different questions. I'll see if I can answer
them. Um so the thought is that this would complete the signs for recreation areas, conservation areas and cemeteries. None of the signs have been purchased. So >> okay,
>> the design there are other signs that went up that Tim and others have referenced, but those were not paid for with the pulse of the last pulse of money for these signs. So, um I'm not sure exactly what folks are referring
to. So, um so yeah, >> that's helpful. Thank you. >> The design was a a fraction of the design is not um really a significant cost here. It's really the fabrication. So, >> um uh the design is done. We're working
through the final uh elements of that as I said for recreation areas, conservation areas, and and cemeteries. um uh west cemetery uh north and south cemeteries. Um so yeah, I mean could it be done in future years? Absolutely. It
could be. you know, it's just cost escalation. And um there's there is a little bit of concern always with um consistency of of color that if you do multiple runs that you you actually
don't get it's very hard to to match color over time. But if if if the committee really feels like this can wait a year or a reduction in the amount, then staff can clearly adjust to that. Um again, you know, I'm working
with a number of staff on this project, but we realize this is a very challenging year for CPAC. So, um if the committee, you know, would like to reduce that or or ask staff to come back in a year, um we can we can we can make
that work. I just >> Great. Thank you. Thanks, Dave. Jonas, >> add I would agree with Tim. Tim uh that they are impressive the the signage that's already up and I think you see with a lot of universities that signage is such an important like
point of cohesion and I do think it does provide that to the town. So, thanks. >> Thank you, Ellen. Yeah, I just wanted to um respond. I think it was Jason who said the bang for
your buck because I'm looking at the application now and it's close to a hundred signs that would be produced for this. So 60 conservation area welcome signs, 11 recreation area signs, 15 kiosks, and
then hiker signs and wayfinding signs. So, um, I do think it's a bang for your buck, I guess, relatively. >> Thank you, Ellen. Jason, >> I Yeah. So, Ellen, I'm not sure if that's cor like I'm not sure if that's
correct. And looking at last year's proposal, and I can't recall what the actual allocation from last year was, but last year's proposal was for signage. Um, funding would pay for the
fabrication of signs at many of our most visited recreation and conservation properties. So, we're and Dave is saying that those signs were not fabricated. So, one, what happened to the money that was approved last year? And
if those signs were fabricated, how many did you get for $100,000? And before Dave answers, I would like to make a point of clarification or like process or order. Um,
Dave has interjected a few times talking about these projects. Um, it's my understanding this is not part of the public comment. There's no public comment here. We've discussed these projects with the project applicants.
There are other project applicants that are currently on this call right now. And I don't think it's fair that we're asking Dave to potentially discuss some of these projects if we're not going to give equal time to other project applicants to chime in in the middle of our
deliberations. So, I think that if we're going to deliberate about these projects, we should do so just amongst the commissioners or the committee members and not have anybody else, any project applicant actually chime in. I
don't think that that's actually fair. Um, >> nothing Dave, I don't mean to I don't mean offense, but it's I just don't think that that's fair to the process. Um Dave, I understand you're on the call because you work for the town, you represent the town. There's certain
processes you might need to discuss, but I don't think we should be discussing project specific questions with any of the applicants if we're not going to open it up to all of the applicants. So, and I know I posed a question essentially to you, Dave, right before
>> fairness. Um, yeah. No, there there's that's fair enough. Uh, historically, I think I have been knowledgeable about all of the town projects. So, to your point, Jason, if
if the committee feels as though, um, that gives the town project some sort of unfair advantage, then I I totally understand. Um, happy to not answer those specific questions. I wanted to just be fair to all applicants
to have an ability to once we start deliberating it's more than like just like a presentation and the questions we get to ask. So that's I think in in in fairness it ought to be
that way. >> Jason, I appreciate your comment and I'm happy to have a discussion about this now with the committee. I feel differently. I feel that um
uh Dave and Sean are resources to help inform um inform us about all the projects, not just the town projects and for us to be able to ask them questions if they can answer them to help inform our deliberations. I think it's been in
my experience very helpful. um and they also are representing the other applicants in in various ways and can answer a lot of those questions. So I don't I don't feel as strongly as you do about um about that. I think it's really
helpful for those of us as lay people to get the information that we need to make informed decisions. Um, so if others on the committee feel similarly to Jason and prefer not to,
you know, we could as a point of order, we can vote to adjust the way the process works. Um or we could we could move forward and continue for this year and then have a discussion about how we want to as a CPA
committee move forward in the future. So I'll take comments on that and and I don't know if those hands were raised for this particular thing or something else. So Bob, >> um J Jason, I think that is a fair and
nuanced point and something that hasn't occurred to me in the past. I think I come down on the side of what Katie said because to get the best possible outcome for the allocation of these CPAC funds or CPA
funds, we really need the town's input because the lion share is often town requests. And I do not hear Dave advocating against other projects or in favor of town projects. I hear just an
objective assessment of some of the importance and impact of these projects and I think that's very important to get us to a better outcome. >> Okay. Thank you, Bob. Robin. >> Um, yeah. I'm just thinking back to
other CPA sessions that we've had where, um, I don't know if my historic memory is correct, but where we've also, um, when questions have come up around other projects, we've referred them back to the applicant for an answer at a future meeting. >> Um, Katie, you're probably you could
tell me if that seems like something that we've done in the past. Maybe not so much for this particular session. Um but that was a way that you know that we I think we tried to address fairness in terms of discussion and and fairness and and and being an informed committee.
Yeah. No, we definitely have gone back to applicants for sure with additional questions after during and after deliberate you know during deliberations or after those meetings to get information we need to make the best decision.
Jonas. >> Uh, yeah, I think I see Jason's point and I guess uh trying to like listen, maybe we just need to be listening to make sure it's purely informational. Um, it might be hard for David to keep it
that way. And um, but that he's he's offering information and not opinion. Um, of course, then you you also want the uh the other projects to get information as well. So, we need to make sure we I think that was Jason's
original point. >> There's more if we're if more information is being uh relayed on one project versus another that might that might tip it. Although, of course, it could go could weigh against that project uh as more information might
show flaws of it. But um yeah, I think yeah uh object >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Keep Janice. I didn't hear that. And >> I just think um I I would say recommend keeping David involved, but that we're just listening out for um you know,
keeping it information, his input. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. I I just want to clarify like I don't think Dave shouldn't like Dave has a lot of knowledge and should be relied upon for process questions or thing you
know things like that but there are a few project applicants that are on the call right now that are on this meeting and we've discussed their projects and we haven't gone to them asking them any clarifying points or clarifying
questions. Um, and so I just want to make sure that everybody gets equal time. >> Yeah. >> We're not giving, you know, a potentially unfair advantage to the town for any reason. It's a really important point I think and I think it's if to
Jonas's point Jason if you're I mean there's always folks on a meeting and we can if we had a particular question like for example with the Jones library the amount of money for if we were talking about an amount and people were interested in saying oh maybe not the
1.2 to but less. I think we'd have to have pose a question. We might not get the answer in the meeting today, but we we would pose it and ask somebody from the town to help us get that answer. So, I think we can ask proposers for additional information
should we need it for sure. I would hope we would um if we need that for making the best decision. Um and I think it's really important. We don't we want to be obviously fair and equitable in this process as most as best we can. Um
and also um have as much information as we need. So, um, is it sounds like, um, with that it sounds to me like the committee's
okay with the chair calling on town members based on um, getting additional information for the deliberations. if you know, but that we also make sure that we're being fair and
affording that opportunity to others through if we if we need additional information. Is that am I getting that from the committee? >> Yes. >> Hard to see. Okay. So, here Bob.
Um >> I guess my question is more about the process. um had the same thought of Jason like oh he gets to talk about the project David gets to talk about projects but other people aren't and >> so that did that did come up but then I
was like well I guess this is the way this is my first time do going through this so I was like I guess that's just the way it always is so I didn't say anything but um I guess my the question I have about process would be so we're talking about the Jones library as you
used as an example example, then do we pull in somebody from the audience, if you will, uh to answer those questions on spot, or do we >> My recommendation would be to do what we've done before, which is to go and ask them in between meetings so we could
get that information and it can come to the the committee in between the meeting. Um should we get that answer back in advance so we could be thinking about it? >> Well, maybe that's the way we have to approach it with Dave, too. >> Sure. So it's equitable to everybody
that there's that time period. I don't know. >> Yeah, I think I I guess I would say and I'm I'm fine with doing that. I think um it's not I don't think we need to have a long conversation um and derail us on
this. I think it's really important to be fair. So like I don't this is not unimportant. Um, but I I think we can um we can apply that process if everyone is in agreement that we
uh maybe Leah can help us capture the questions that we have um in order to make the best decision and then we can ask the folks from the town who support us to gather the information and provide it to us before the next
meeting. are folks. Does that sound like a good approach for tonight going forward? Jason, I'm I'm I can see you. I can see Tim and Bob, but I can't see everyone. So, I don't know.
Bob and Tim, do you have um a reaction to that proposal? >> Uh, not to that proposal. Well, I was just going to say that if you listen to this process with Dave, he's actually advantaging the other applications that are not count applications because he's
helping us find money. And that's sort of a subtext here. >> Thank you, Tim. >> Yeah. Um, true. But I must admit I never thought of Jason's point. And um, in reflection,
I agree with that. I just I think it is more fair to uh, uh, maybe we could Dave could I know it's a little more uh, uh, time consuming perhaps. Uh, I'd rather maybe Dave respond the way
everybody else responds. Uh, uh, so that would be my comment. Okay, that sounds like there is some agreement that we need to do things slightly differently in order to maintain some equity and
I do rely on the town to support this committee and they're you know they meet with the every you know they they're involved in all of these not just those that the town are proposing. So, it's really important to have their um support in doing this work and getting
this information. And so, it sounds like we're in agreement that we will ask for certain questions that may come up to be answered however possible after the meeting
and not in the middle of the meeting. in order in order to be fair. Dave, did you want to make a com Oh, Ellen, did you have >> Yeah. >> Oh, just really quickly, is this laid out at all in um the CPA mass general law, the bylaws about town
representation at CPA meetings? >> I don't know. I don't think so, but I'm not aware that it is. Could I just make a quick comment, >> Dave? Yeah, please. >> Happy to do, you know, this sounds like a a a good approach here with the the uh
I think historically the the way this has evolved is is to try to make your meetings more efficient. I think I think over time, you know, I I was reflecting on, you know, your questions to Shawn earlier in
this meeting that um following this line of conversation, it probably, you know, if if you do, it probably would have been better to go to the Jones Library, Inc. and ask them questions about how the money was used as opposed to town
staff, be it myself or Sean, right? to be consistent with with your line of conversation here. I did also and I think Katie you you highlighted something which is I just want everybody to know also that town staff often work
with all of the applicants to to perfect I was looking at the list here and I'm sure that town staff have touched or commented on or worked with most if not all of the applicants here to actually get them to their CPA um application.
So, and then once if you fund them or if the council funds them, then town staff work with each applicant to carry out the project. We contract, we guide, I mean, you know, so anyway, uh, happy to
work with you any way you you want to move forward on this. So, thanks. >> Thanks, Dave. Appreciate that. Okay. I think um it sounds like for tonight we'll
continue on with our deliberations and um I've noted a couple of questions but if as we go through the projects if there are questions that you have that you need further clarification in order to make your own decision about a
project we should flag that and um Lee if you're okay keeping a list. Um I'm I'll try to as well. >> Sure. >> Thank you. Um are we moving on or Jason, you have
another and Tim? >> I just wanted to and I'm responsible for team randling the conversation a little bit. So, I want to just make sure that uh we send Dave the question that I I originally asked was from the previous last year's funding, how many signs were
actually produced for that amount of money? Um because it's not clear in the answers to the questions here. So, how many signs were produced with the funding from last year? And if none were produced, why? And what's the reason? and you know
so we can get a better idea of how many will be produced with this amount of money. And Jason just in the proposal in the budget I think Ellen was quoting the numbers in the budget for that they were proposing with the area welcome signs
about 11 conservation area welcome signs about 60. So they put in their budget what they think will get completed with that 100,000. Just as a point of clarification >> in the response to our questions, the question was the applicant the
application states that last year's funding is being used for Puffers Pond, Amethyst Brook, Mil River, Grath Park, Fort River, Mount Pollock, Plum Brook, and more. Please clarify if this year's request is for more signs at those locations or the additional locations.
And the answer is this year's request is for signs and kiosks at additional locations. The goal is to add new signage at all conservation areas and wreck areas in town. This includes about 70 conservation areas. Some are being combined on signage. Eight wreck areas
and three cemeteries. So I would like to know specifically how many signs were produced last year with the funding from last year. >> Well, I've got that on the list of questions and I it it could be that you know the funding from last year is for
this entire fiscal year. So it may they may be in production. So we can get that answer as well. It may not there may not be completed and installed as of January but we can get that full uh thank you for
that. And Tim >> uh totally unrelated but uh as the most senior member of the committee I would like to request a five minute break. >> Oh what a great idea. I I think that's important since we're going long
>> and um I will ask us all to be back at 7:45. >> Thank you. >> And you could just put yourself on mute and >> no video Great suggestion, Tim. Hopefully everyone will
get something to eat. Eddie, I'm going to be here. I'm just going to eat a little bit. So, I'm going to turn my camera off. >> Yes, please feel free to eat. I I appreciated Ellen's point about us getting tired and hungry by the end.
>> Yeah, I I I had a couple of shots of tequila, so bear with me for the rest of this meeting. >> Nice. >> Just note that that was said in justest of course, Bob. >> Of course. Of course. I maintain my
presence here the entire time. So, you'll be very agreeable from here out. >> That's right. Whatever you say. >> Well, it looks like I know Jason's here. Um, but turned off his camera so he
could have some supper. Um, hopefully everybody else is back. So, thank you so much and um appreciate the conversation. uh as always and it I just you know
we're getting there folks we're we um with one more conversation will be halfway through. Imagine that. Um so I think when when we last finished um
Jason's point about the question that we have around the signage um that would help him in making his um decision. I don't think there were any other folks who wanted to make a comment about recreation conservation science. I
didn't speak about Oh, Leah has a question. >> I just wanted to point out sort of the timeline because it seemed to come up a few times just in terms of last year's funding. That's not it doesn't get given out until this year. So, it was given
out July 1st >> when begin spending it. And a lot of CBA projects seem to go about 3 years for spending. But yeah, so we're only halfway through the point. I don't know the status. I'm not responding to any of that. But we are in the point of when that funding would be. Yeah.
>> Fiscal year is July 1 to June 30. And so there's we'll we will find out more, >> but that's just for us to all remember that. Sure. Thank you. >> Um I just I I want to say that I I love this recreation conservation area sign.
I was in favor of the first trunch. I think um completing it or getting this huge, you know, bulk of it done would be fantastic. I also agree that it's going to come down to um what kind of money we have, but I think we probably certainly
have some money for um we could have some money for this project. So, just that was my two cents in there um as I rated it a four. So, I think we're ready to move on to the All-Wheel skate park. And
I would um I I'll just kick us off by saying I um I think this is just a very interesting um community-led project. I thought the information that was presented was
um totally reasonable, clear. It was it had some great data behind it. It felt like the 20,000 or 40,000 options that were given to us are a great um investment and finding out more about
um what's possible to to do here in Ammerst. So, I would be in favor of funding this. >> Anyone else? Angus. >> Yeah, I gave this a one. I as you can see, I was happy to give out ones. Um I don't do the great inflation thing even
though I think some of my students wish I did. Um but um uh the uh my main issue with this was similar to the pickle ball courts which is just that I'm concerned about launching a whole another set of studies and investigations into a major
recreational site that's going to cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars when we can't finish the pickle ball courts which we spend so much more time on. We know there's a huge audience for them. I I realize this is a small amount of money, so it's not at all
something that I'm wanting to to die on, but that's why I rated it so lowly. Um it just feels like there are other projects that are more important. >> Thank you, Jonas. >> Agree with you, Katie, that um they're
taking kind of a uh like a phased approach. I like the presentation and um I don't know why it couldn't live co coexist with the pickle ball court. Um I
mean I I I didn't I was late to the pickle ball conversation tonight so I don't even know where we ended up on it. Um but um it's obviously a different a slightly different demographic very interestingly almost I think it kind of
brackets probably the um the kind of demographic um of pickle bar pickle ball and um yeah I I like the presenter and he seems to have uh a similar kind of
um cohort of of you know support for it. Thank you, Robin. >> Yeah, I was impressed by the presentation. I I thought it was a really interesting slice of Ammer's life that I hadn't given much thought to. And
um since it was a small ask, I gave it a high rating. >> Thank you, Jason. >> Yeah. Uh I in disclosure I know some of the folks that uh were part of this application
team. Um I stand to gain nothing by it. Uh so I won't recuse myself but I do know some of them. Um, I think it's a great project and Angus, I had some of your initial uh your
initial concerns about like maintenance of this. Um but hearing that, you know, there's a lot of self-maintenance that goes on and knowing that like um this the one spot that they uh that they were looking at right next to the
pool. I thought that it's a it's a great place. It's high visibility. It's right next to the high school. Um, and this is a this is a uh, you know, really a community-led project. Um, and it is the
smallest ask. And the ask, it's my understanding the $40,000 ask it will be for like design and permitting help. It's not they're not studying at like this is like actionable
actionable steps to move the project forward as opposed to like doing a study or or something. All of this money will be um will be used to actually move the project forward as opposed to studying anything or or getting more community input, anything like that. But back to
the um the maintenance, I don't I don't know how much actual real maintenance is even required for these if it's mostly concrete and such. Um, and so I just I think this is a great project in a great potentially in a great location.
Honestly, I would love to see this project kind of rolled in with the Memorial Bath House project. Um, it would be great if there's going to be a bunch of work going on in that area to try to get as much of it done at one
time as possible um in that and to to limit the amount of disruption. Um, but overall that's why I I gave this one a five. Um, I I just think it's a great community-led project and
um is going to serve I think a lot wider demographic than potentially we may have all originally thought um when you think of skateboarding and all wheels. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Robin, did you have another point or is your hand still up for Okay,
Tim. Oh, Tim, you're muted. Ju >> just quickly, um, I would, uh, oppose the 40,000 if we're going to be reducing the signs. I think we're going
to have to make decisions here. And I think this project could wait. I don't disagree with the importance of the project, even though it's a small dollar amount. Uh, I just don't feel comfortable in reducing other projects so we could do this one. I think this
one can wait till a future year. >> Ellen, >> um, yeah, I gave this a three just mostly because I was unclear where this would go and I believe there is a master, this is a question for Dave, um, for the future. Um, I believe there's a
master plan for the whole like um community field and war memorial pool and all of that. And I don't know that escape park is is in that master plan. And so I want to know, you know, would
the town be willing to consider this a as um a possibility and is there the right space for it in that part of town? Um, but yeah, I thought this was more to study different locations and
possibilities. Um, >> that is what it says. >> Okay. >> Assessment. >> I don't think it's a a fate to complete that it's supposed to go next to the pool. Correct. >> I don't see that. Um, in the proposal,
I'm looking at it. It's it's talking about a site selection, site assessment, and community engagement. um as the two sort of deliverables. >> Give a little context because this was presented the committee and some of us
had some suggestions of hey maybe we can reuse concrete existing concrete. Um and one of one of the suggestions it was my suggestion was Wildwood school. What's what's going to go on with the Wildwood school? um you know that concrete
probably can't be used as is but um so I think that then led the applicant to maybe kind of like recast the idea and come back with the I think that's where the site that kind of he they um
reconentrated on site um assessment and that's what the I think the 20,000 is for. >> It's not for it's not for design of the park. It's for site location primarily. Right. >> Right. And I and I think his his um I don't want to well I'll try to represent
what he said. His he would like it to be visible. Of course uh that would gain more traction and use the more central it is to the town, but I think he's willing um he and the other applicant, you know, the other people of the group are willing to look at other locations
as as we uh recommended. So again, that's where the I think the 20,000 is coming out. So, >> right, this is phase >> scope and deliverables and phase two would be the build which would be
$636,000. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> But I would like that question asked to Dave for >> Yeah, I have it written. >> Thank you. Um, okay. So, >> sorry Katie,
um, I don't seem to have that in my notes. Can you clarif do you have anything that clarifies the difference in the 20,000 ask versus the 40,000? Cuz it says 40,000 on here, but they did come to us with two asks. It was my understanding the 40,000 would include
Yes. site selection. It's not it's not decided upon. That was my uh my opinion about that location, but I thought there was something in the second the 40,000 ask that had like some like potential
engineering or like >> yes >> more sight studying that would like that's what I meant by like move the project forward like >> if at the $40,000 level at the 20,000 it's it's a it's it's the site not the
geotechnical ical um preliminary design concepts permitting which you mentioned um that would be at the larger amount. >> So we have $40,000 on this. >> I think it's there's an asterisk good
notation there. >> Right. >> Sorry. >> I just as a comment that when they came back with the revised budget it could be 20 or 40. I use the higher number just as a placeholder. >> Yeah. So I think that's just important
for us all to know that the site selection is and that engagement is in the 20,000 but the 40,000 includes some of those concrete steps to move the project forward >> right >> was the point that I was making I guess and that because we have the 40,000
listed here >> and we can um we can clarify >> that I'm clarifying thing like the question about whether or not there's a a
master plan for that area. Like I think that's something of a process question that's not necessarily directly about this project. Like is there a master plan for the pool area? And then just because there's a master
plan doesn't mean that 15 years ago when the master plan was adopted, it's not going to change, >> right? I don't think I don't think that that's a project specific question. I think that's more of a process question or more of a like,
>> yeah, >> does that thing exist? So, because I brought it up earlier, like that's a question I don't I wouldn't think if Dave interjected now saying yes, there is. No, there's not. I don't think that's necessarily
a project specific question. >> I I hear what you're saying. Yeah. I think um I I think the challenge for us often is that there often are more questions about these than there are, you know,
it's it's it's hard and we're not, you know, responsible for the actual um the sighting of certain things, you know, for example. And so it is hard because we get we get involved in asking a lot of the questions that we're interested in and that might affect our
decision makingaking. So, it is I think this is a challenge. Um, getting more information isn't bad. So, having more information on this and I'm I hear what you're saying, Jason, that you're suggesting that I ask Dave now about that master plan, but I I
think we can just get that quickly answered um after the fact. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with that. I was just saying that as like a >> clarify what I about product specific kind of process.
>> Yep. Thank you. I appreciate that. >> So I do I think it would be good for us to get um some clarification on the 20 versus 40. I it's that was a verbal comment during the presentation. It's
not actually in the print. So, I think we I I will ask to get a little bit more on that. Um, but it sound like from what folks were saying that there are folks that are in favor of this and there are folks who are opposed to this. So, it, you know, this will come down to
probably a vote. In any event, um, any other comments on the skate park or questions? Okay, moving on to
open space improvements. Um, this is the $100,000 um for for uh from the town of Ammeris conservation staff. And we'll start with Bob. Yeah, just
with my five kind of hanging out there for both the signs as well as open space. I I they go hand in hand for me and I know this is community preservation act but I think there's also community cohesion is part of the
mandate here and I think that these open space proven when you couple them with the sign improvements. I think you end up with a very for little dollars a very powerful uh way to make our community feel like a
place a consistent place aesthetically. >> Thank you, Bob. Jason does agree with Bob. Um but I do I would like to change mine actually to a five for this from a four to a five.
Um, I think it's far far more important to make these to do the maintenance on things that already exist. And a number of these trails and like the bog bridge at like Lark Hill or Larch Hill, no. Um, it's in really,
really bad condition. And before we go up and put some nice new signs in for people to get to these places, we really need to make sure that these places are actually safe for people to be at. And I would be I would I honestly I would be
far more open to giving more money to this either like taking some money from the signs and giving it to this because I think this is an incredibly important thing. And when it comes to the maintenance of our
trails and maintenance in general, I'm of the philosophy that like we said, we shouldn't be building more things if we can't maintain the things we have. And uh $100,000 to repair some of these boardwalks and
bridges and things is nothing compared to what it's going to cost if the town ends up getting sued because somebody hurts themselves or something like that on uh on one of these bridges if it collapses or somebody's, you know, leg goes through a
rotted piece of wood and they get an infection or something, you know, it's going to be a really bad situation. And I so I think this is incredibly important. >> Thank you. Thanks Jason Kellen. >> Yeah. Um I know that this is a um
recurring request every year and I think that is important to to consider because I don't think there's any other source of funding to maintain these trails besides CPA. So um I think it's it's an important one to support.
Thank you. I Ellen, I looked back and I don't think it's every year, but it is pretty regular, right? Is it Did you look back on the >> I did uh it was one of the questions that I asked. Um I can pull up the questions.
>> Yeah, it is fairly regular and I appreciate that what you're saying that there's not a lot of other sources for that. Um Jonas. >> Yeah. Uh I walk on uh in large hill. Um
I'm I'm a butter. Um I walk on the boardwalk that u Jason's mentioning. I would um I would say we could be judicious in how it's spent. Um, it is quite a remarkable when I walk there, I marvel
at I believe was the Hitchcock Center and involunteers who who laid that who put that down and there's probably 5,000 nails. Um, just imagine the people who did this. So, it is pretty remarkable and it is a great asset. Um, I do think
um just I would just hope that this would go a long way. The 100,000 I don't think it needs to be rebuilt. Um, I actually would say, and I'm just again speaking only to Large Hill, um, it's a kind of a bog land and it might be quite expensive to completely rebuild it. I do
think it can be shored up though. I think, um, there are some weak spots. So, um, but it is one of the the beauties of Ammerst is our open space and to be able to enjoy it um, is pretty
key. Thanks. >> Thank you, Ellen. Did you have another? >> No, I found the answer to it. >> Oh, requested fiscal year 24 100,000 was requested.
Uh fiscal year 25 100,000 fiscal year 26 150,000 requested and never the full amount has not been given but it has been funded over the past three three cycles. >> Thank you.
Um, I just want to follow up on Jonas's point. I think, you know, to for me the town open space is like, you know, it's our DNA. It's just such an important part of the town. I feel
similarly about the library and our schools. And I I'm always in favor of supporting um the maintenance of the open space. And I do appreciate what Bob said. Um, I think while a huge
percentage of our land is conserved and people have access to it, I think without the good signage, it doesn't feels accessible to all people. And the more um we do that, so I do see Bob's point about having those two things
connected and funding both of them. Anybody else on the open space? I guess another part of the open space is that um it you can you do what almost um it's not limited to like a couple different uses. You know, it's it's
walking, it's hiking, it's cross country skiing. So, this is just another >> maybe vote in favor of it versus kind of special uses of some of the >> No, you're you're absolutely right. I mean, there's so many artists who use it, you know, and burers and all kinds
of Yeah. All right. Thank you for that. Um, >> sorry. So, >> I Oh, Jason, sorry. Go ahead. >> Um, I just want to make sure the open space improvements were mostly for bridges,
correct? I mean, there's some trail maintenance, but it was it's mostly bridges. And just again, Lurch Hill, that's an ADA accessible. >> It says improving accessibility of trails, bridges, and boardwalks.
>> Yeah, trails, bridges, board. Okay. Yeah. So, a if it's ADA, I don't know if that's a consideration that we need to take, but if it's ADA, if it's supposed to be ADA accessible and there's like some broken board because my daughter
used to go to common school, so we'd walk on that little stretch all the time and there were a few broken boards. So, I just want that to I just want us to bear that in mind as well that it's it's an accessibility issue, especially at
that one uh in particular. >> Yeah, it >> Yeah, it does >> says on the application here that the large hill needs immediate replacement, the walkway. So, >> yeah, it mentions multiple sites, Large Hill, Wentworth, Mil River,
Amethystsburg, etc. And then it says say requested funds would go directly to materials that are cons to construct and maintain accessible trails townwide. So it's up to the town to do that the applicant.
Um okay let's move on to the municipal housing trust. Um this Oh, 575. Okay. Yeah, the request was for 575.
>> Anybody like to make a Oh, Angus, you can start us off. Thank you. >> Sure. Um so the uh I'm on the town's planning board and um for the the planning board uh affordable housing is a major goal that we're targeting. Um
it's a major goal for the town council. It's a part of the master plan. They just passed a housing production plan that makes it a major focus as well. Um the planning board has no funds so we can't do anything about that apart from trying to plan um and make things make
options available. Um uh so uh I I'll probably I won't say the same thing about all three of the community housing projects, but they're all major priorities for the planning board. Um and they would all help make more affordable housing in what is not a very
affordable place to live. uh namely Ammerst. Um and uh I just wanted to end by pointing out um the in total the community housing is about a third um if we were to fully fund it, it would make up about a third of the funds that we
have available to use. Um which feels like a a a pretty nice distribution um of of how we could spend that money. Um, I can speak to the particularities of any of these projects and I might, but that's what I'll open with. Thanks.
>> And so you're sorry, Angus, you'd be in favor, it sounds like, even though we're going to go to the other ones, but it's for this one in particular of full funding. Yeah, I I I actually rated the proposal number eight on the part-time planning and housing coordinator more
lowly than these other two um which seemed like they would produce >> more tangible housing immediately, especially um proposal number one. But um but if it's possible to fully fund all three of them, I think that that would be wonderful. If I were Yeah, I
can talk more about all of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, we can we'll get to those. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification, Bob. Um, Angus, thank you. That was uh insightful, especially with respect to the planning board priorities. And I'm just going to reflect a little bit of my
ignorance about the way this situation works. The am I understand the function of the Ammerst Municipal Housing Trust. I'm in support of full funding so they have their dry powder to be able to leap
upon any opportunities that might come up. seems like a very important priority for our town. Um, how it dubtales with the Amity Street redevelopment. Maybe someone could opine on that. And
my prejudice there is that the AM street redevelopment looking at it and this goes back to something Jason said earlier doesn't really look like a affordable housing in the sense that it's very expensive per unit and I want to be disabused of that as we start to
get into the um housing discussion. >> Okay Bob, so it sounds like you have some questions. I don't know if anyone here can answer them. Uh Angus has his hand up, so I'll go to him, but if not, we can um pose
those questions to help get those answers. Um anyone Angus, you're you're up on >> Yeah, I can I can uh respond to that at least a little bit. Um I'm with you, Bob. um the the numbers that we see for
affordable units is somewhere in the vicinity of $400 to $500,000 as a minimum per unit um per building. And part of that is is because um it's expensive to build in a place like Amoris regardless. Um but uh a big part
of it is also how affordable h the kinds of contractors that affordable housing tries to work with. Um but yeah, I think it's a crazy number. I think it's a disturbing number. Um I've seen numbers as high as 1.1 million per unit. Um
which boggles my mind. I I truly don't understand that. Um so so these are are actually pretty reasonably priced compared to some of the numbers that I've seen that frankly don't make sense to me. Um I'll just say from I I brought this up with the planning board to ask
them what their priorities were. They said the Emity Street redevelopment would be absolutely the highest priority because it will generate immediate uh affordable housing in the community no matter what. Whereas the other proposals are all possibly going to generate housing at some point in the future
maybe if the circumstances align. So the feeling from the planning board and that's including people who are architects and planners and consultants on affordable housing was that if you have a project that is ready to get funded and you can fund it and make that happen, you should do it. Um, and the
location is also very good. Usually affordable housing is pushed out more to peripheral areas of town and is not in prime real estate in the middle of downtown. >> Thank you. >> That's very helpful. Thank you, Angus. Jonas.
>> Yeah. And I assume, Bob, one of um are we talking that you think it's going to be not affordable to the person who ultimately is paying for it or renting or are you saying like it's kind of ironic that it costs a lot of money for us to make affordable housing? There's a
lot of overhead. I I I think Angus answered my question and because of the contract and the way that they're let and the way that the builders work on them, I I was more concerned that if you did a green field
development just starting from scratch, you could probably get away with cheaper units instead of having to renovate a big old house. Angus is disabusing me of that to a degree.
>> Right. And um I I if I don't you don't mind me kind of weighing in on since we're kind of bulking these maybe Am Street and this housing trust a little bit. What I what I impro was what I was impressed with on the Amony Street was it's um that the uh the current owner
>> Jonas Sorry sorry sorry Jonas to interrupt. Do do you mind if we just stick to the housing trust just to kind of keep us >> Yes. Sorry. Sorry. >> We We will get there. >> No, no, no. I mean, I I appreciate >> his point about, you know, the fully
third of it, but if we could just um provide feedback on the housing trust and whether or not um folks are in favor, I mean, it it looked like very highly rated. There was one, three, everything else is four. it feels like
folks are in favor of this. Um maybe it's about the amount um where there might be some some difference of opinion, but we could keep moving on to the others and come back to talk about amounts, but Jason, go ahead.
>> Yeah, Katie is the only three for this project. Um the amount was was a large reason why I gave it a three as opposed to higher. Um, it's a large ask. I certainly am much more I want to I want
to fund it. I think it's I think it's worthy. I don't necessarily uh you know kind of to Bob's point like there's not like or I think it was Bob th this is just money that's going to keep their powder dry. I think he said
like so in case a project does come up or you know somebody needs assistance in paying their rent or their heating bill or something like that, it's it's helping to subsidize existing housing or existing things and then also potentially go towards another
project. Um so I I I think the ask is a big ask. It's a big dollar amount. Um, and I have some I have some issues as far as like actually addressing affordable housing
in town. I don't know if those are appropriate to talk about here, but in the context of of this amount of money, um, >> I think we want to stick to the the the >> Yeah, in the context of this amount of money, I think that's it that's what it was for me. It's a it was it's a big
ask. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Ellen. Um, yeah, I agree. It's a big ask. Um, but that was one of the questions um that was submitted to the trust. Um, and
they did prioritize if we couldn't fund the full amount and they said they would pri prioritize the housing ecosystem innovation and the rapid response fund initiatives. So, that's just something to consider. Um, if
we don't if we decide not to do the full amount. >> And I was just going to add that's $325,000. So, that would reduce it a fair amount. >> And I think this is out of the three housing uh priorities. I think this is the one that could be reduced without
really detrimentally affecting the pri the goal of the project. >> Thank you. And in in past years, the housing trust has has all had, you know, little to no money um in their in their accounts in order to be able to be ready
for action. It felt like based on their presentation, there was still a little bit of money, so maybe the full amount wasn't necessarily needed. So, I appreciate you saying the the Did you say 325, Angus? Okay. Thank you
for those pieces. That's that is helpful. I'm I'm in full favor of I think affordable housing is one of the greatest uh needs for the community and this is been proven this the housing trust has been proven to be very very effective in
um moving Ammeris forward on projects quickly. So, I I am in favor of funding um probably at a minimum of 325. Um but just to get my
opinion out there and Jason, another comment, >> what are do we know? I'm sure it's in here somewhere. I just don't have it in front of me. Angus, you might know off the top of your head. What are the other sources of funding for Ammerst Affordable Housing Trust? Yeah, I don't know all of them. the the
major source of funding that they've just gotten a ton from was um uh a payment in Lou basically that um uh there's a project um in the old Hastings building that was just redone by Barry Roberts and instead of putting in
affordable units which you're required to do, you can make a payment to the affordable housing trust um which they can then use however they want to create affordable housing and that developer did not want to put affordable housing in that um building because they ended up renting it at Tammeris College. Um,
and so that uh was a huge lump sum payment that went straight to the affordable housing trust. So they've actually got a fair amount of money right now and they're they're working on on how to use that. They're thinking about um the school on the South Ammerst Common and other things in partnership
with the city or the town. >> Excellent. Thank you so much. >> There are other sources of funding. I just don't know them all. Thank you. All right, moving on to the Simeon Strong House.
Anyone want to kick us off? Bob, I've been sitting there with the one and I'm waiting for Robin to climb through my computer screen and strangle me. Um I
that there there is something about I know what an important building this is historically. It just seems like it's a money pit. It's going to constantly suck in dollars. The foundational
problems seem so extreme that it feels to me like a fundraising effort has to go on. something to really garner community support in a broader way to I know they've applied for this funding grant but something even broader to
protect our historical center and that is why I came in so low. >> Thank you Robin. >> Um so the historical commission gave
this a high priority. Um it's sort of shovel ready. Uh they've done their homework. I would say that um in response to my request a few years ago, they did seek outside funding um to in order to reduce the burden on CPA.
And Gigi Barnhill and I have had some conversations about the potential for emergency stabilization funding or MPPF funding um to put an application in while um while the CPA funding is pending. CPA could be used as a match.
So that could potentially um reduce the impact uh on CPA dollars which um I think the applicant deserves credit for having done in the past and and looking toward doing that in the future. So that's >> I think she did mention that at the last meeting that they did apply to mass
cultural facilities. >> Yep. Yep. That was for previous for previous grant and then um this year uh she and I talked about uh applications to MPPPF and also contacting MCH around whether they might be eligible for emergency stabilization funds. So I
appreciate >> the effort on the part of the applicant to continue to reach out for for other sources. Uh, I don't know if that helps helps you feel any better, Bob. >> But just to Robin, I I hear that they
did apply in the past, but I thought what she said at the last meeting during public comment was that they did put in another application, but they won't hear, >> right? Um, mass cultural council, which is different. Yeah. So, there's mass culture council, >> right? But I'm just saying there they have it. I just wanted to make sure that
was part of the record that they have applied. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. All right. Um, Jason, >> yeah, some in regards to Bob your comment about it, you know, being
something of a money pit. I think that's probably true to a certain extent. When you get into these old buildings and you want to preserve them, some of them are just going to cost a ton of money to preserve them. And this group being a
small group and not really seemingly having any other source of funding, they do have to rely, it seems, on, you know, CPA funding and uh grants and the generosity of people uh to to potentially give if they're going to try
to do any fundraising. But um you know, I think fundamentally if we want to actually preserve these things, we have to be willing to spend the money. And if once the foundation gets fixed, then I think it'll be easier to
complete all the other projects, right? Like it's the foundation. It's the very foundation, the thing that it's built on. But if it gets let go and it doesn't get fixed and it doesn't get fixed soon, there may not be anything there left to
preserve. And so I think that's a real question that we have to ask is, you know, at what point does this this building like at what point does it cease to become a preservation versus a demolition? And if we can help to do
that, if we if we value it as a preserv as something that needs to be preserved, at some point I think we the CPA or the town, somebody is going to have to, you know, bite the bullet and spend a good chunk of money to fix this thing.
>> Well, I just want to remind us that we don't have to decide about demolitions or anything like that. We're just deciding on this merits of this one proposal. Um, so if we just focus on there, I I appreciate your comment. >> Well, that is I mean that's the merit of
it, right? It's fixing the foundation. So, >> if the foundation doesn't get fixed, >> right, >> and it cracks more, is this thing going to fall over? Like, is it become is it going to become a real safety hazard? >> Yes. >> I think that's part of the merit of the
application is that >> Sorry, I meant I was talking about demolition. I I hear what you're saying that if you don't do this, you're saying if you don't do this >> demolition could be po like it could just be to that point. >> I don't want to alarm anyone that we're not talking as a committee about
>> nor am I suggesting that that's the course of act but that's in my thinking my giving it a five. I think it's extremely urgent. >> I see. Great. That's helpful. >> And there's no seemingly no real other sense or source of funding other than grants.
Yeah. Okay. Um, Bob, >> I'll bump my 1.0 up to a 3.0 to put this over the finish line, but I I would like to make the comment generally that I wish this proposal had a more fully
baked quality to it. So, we saw saw the whole requirement to get where we need to be, which is to have a a stable historical center. Thank you. Um Robin, >> yeah, I was just going to add briefly
that uh this Yeah, this project probably is one of the one of maybe the one that meets most clearly the urgency standard. So underscoring. >> Thank you. >> That's helpful. Um Tim,
>> uh yes, uh once again, I am a former trustee. Hm. Excuse me. I'm a former trustee of the Strong House. Haven't been a trustee for a while. But just in full disclosure, this again is a project where I believe we have funded in
previous years the studies to understand what it would take to do these renovations and this is actually the dollars to do it. So I think this a continuation of what we had done before and I rate it very very highly.
>> Thank you. Jonas. Oh, okay. No problem. >> I was actually on Google um Earth to I will admit I've never been to the to the to this uh property. I
didn't know where it was. And I'm just wondering uh what the value Jason brought up the question of value. What the historic value is other than it is the oldest. I imagine there is a second oldest. Um, what I'm seeing is
it's it doesn't seem to be part of the fabric of Ammerst. It's it's in a kind of a nondescript lot. It's, but I might be wrong cuz there might be something I'm not seeing. But whereas if it was in the middle of town or it was on a grand,
you know, a lawn or a to me it looks, you know, kind of uninspiring. And I'm just wondering what the value is to to putting in $275,000 to maintain it.
Um, I don't know. Robin, do you want to speak to that since the historic commission rated it highly? >> Yeah, it's in um I'm just looking it up here on Macros there. >> I was going to share something as well.
>> Oh, yeah. Well, it's on the National Register. National Register as an individual building in 1984 was added to National Register District in 1991. Um significant in AR agriculture, archaeology, historic architecture,
exploration exploration. It's it's a pretty significant building from from um from the history of uh its contributions to the town and architecturally and it is uh recognized on the national register and both as an individual
building and as part of the district that it belongs to. That's helpful. >> Angus, go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to add I mean I I think the fact that it's the site of the Amoris Historical Society and a museum displaying the
historical society's um both act material collection but also different exhibits they put on. Last year they had an exhibit um uh about the Cambodian community in Ammerst. Um this year they're in a separate location that they're renting from a a private land
owner. Um, that's a nice display, but it's not like um displaying in a historic house. Um, and they've got um kind of a photographic like then and now sort of history that they did of past photographs of town and then um high
school students from the um from ARHS went out and tried to like recreate similar kinds of photos in the present day. So, I think there's a the the the key thing to me is not that it's like a random historical house, but it's also the repository for an important historical association
um that maintains records for the community. >> Thank you. That's very important. It's right, you know, I don't know. I think Jonas, you were asking where it was. You know, it's on Amity Street there by the library. So, I don't know if
>> maybe I have the wrong location, which would be ironic. Um, yeah, >> I think Yeah, >> if that was another question. Ellen, you had a comment. >> Yeah, I was going to say it it is in the center of town. It's right next to the
Jones Library and just, you know, a few steps away from the main intersection. Um and you know the historical society had to close um to the public because of this um these structural issues. So
nobody can learn or enjoy or or experience it until this gets fixed. So it is an emergency in in my perspective. Um and also just the historical value of the house. There's been a lot of
research on the family that has lived there and you can read a lot about it um on the historical society website and elsewhere. Um and I just also want to say as the chair of the Amoris Public Shade Tree Committee, there is a magnificent
um sycamore tree in front. Um it's over 300 years old. It was planted um as a wedding present. And if the house falls down, then we're going to lose the tree and there's just a whole. So, >> all right, let's try to wrap this um
this particular project up. I see it's 8:35, so I want to try to keep us moving forward. Um unless there are other Oops. I think there was at least one other comment. I don't want to just want to wrap it up. So, if anybody has final
comments on this, that's been super helpful, I think, to hear from everybody. Okay. So, it sounds like Abab changed his rating. It sounds like the majority
is uh in favor of um providing funding um because of the urgency needs here that um folks have laid out and um that might be one that we were very
close to agreeing on. Um but anyway, and we can move forward. I'm looking at um the part-time housing coordinator. >> Yeah, I reordered it just after the new ratings. >> Thank you. Yeah. No, I just
>> Does that sound okay for folks to move on to the housing coordinator? Um, and it looks like we've got um one, two, three, four um projects left. Um, we have 20
minutes. We might be able to get through a good portion of them. I wondered if it would be helpful to set aside some time just to make sure that we have um you know make sure that we know what it
is that we need from applicants um in order to make our decisions. I have written down a list of some of the questions we have, but there may be others. Um, we could also fill in, you know, put throw some
numbers in there just for um just to kind of get a sense of where people stand on some of these projects if that makes sense. And we could also wait, excuse me, to leave that until the next meeting. My proposal is to keep going and get
through all the pro propo proposals if we can. Um, Angus, do you and Jason, do you have comments on that? >> Yeah, I think that's a great plan. I would recommend postpon like waiting on numbers because I think that's going to be pretty involved.
>> Agreed. >> Thank you. Jason, did you have a >> I was exact opposite of I think that we're pretty these these last four everybody seems to be pretty pretty in line ex except for maybe the AMD street
redevelopment. Um I wouldn't be opposed to start throwing some numbers around especially around some of the much larger projects but um I'm I'm open to whatever. >> Okay. Well, I I think we should keep going then and and maybe we will have
some clarity to to put some numbers down. Um if folks are able to just keep pressing forward, we can be as efficient as possible. All right. Part-time planning and
housing coordinator. We have some comments on that. Angus. >> Yeah, I'll keep it brief. I I think that uh I rated this on the on the lower end. Um but I'm I'm clear in the minority on that. So I I'm happy to change this to a a five.
um it's a pretty small amount of money and the planning department feels that it makes a huge difference for them and enables them to do uh a lot more work around affordable housing which is going to be particularly important with this um influx of funds that they've just gotten um that I mentioned earlier that
they um want to put to work as soon as possible to fund some projects. >> Okay, great. Um, I I'm in favor of it as well. I wondered if we This is three years of funding, so I wondered if we
ended up being tight on an amount, if we could do two years, at least something along those lines. But, um, I'm highly in favor of this. Does anyone else want to CPA has funded
um this position in the past several years ago that it is it did three years of funding good investment okay all right then let's I Um um Amity Street. Is that
the next one? >> Yes. >> Yes. Let's do it. Tim >> uh Angus uh convinced me. I was Let's see. I think I was a two again sort of
in Bob's camp that it was a very large per unit uh expenditure. and I question the use of funds for that, but Angus has convinced me. So, I'm going to go up to a four. I think uh
that would be I'll defer to the more experts than me in that category. >> Thank you, Tim. Bob, >> uh put you down for a 42. Thanks, Tim. >> Any other comment there, Bob? Uh, no.
Angus convinced me. >> Okay. >> Excellent. Well, I do think it's a very creative um, use of funding and it's for very high priority in the town and I thought the
point that the planning board said it was the highest priority because it's shovel ready, so to speak. it's ready to roll and you can create affordable housing very quickly which is like um you know a magic trick these days very
very hard to do. So I'm highly in favor of full funding for that. Ellen, >> I just wanted to add I think it's generous that the homeowners um are selling it at a below market rate and
that uh there's they showed good um creative initiative with the idea of the Habitat for Humanity duplex that um could also go onto the property. >> Yeah, it's like a multiple wins there, right? There's a
lot of creative approach to it and partnerships to make it happen. Anybody else? Okay. Um the war memorial bath house got lots of high votes. Um
folks want to make comments starting here. Jason, go ahead. kick us off. >> Yeah, I put a three because I'm just at the point we've put a lot of money. We the CPA has put a lot of money in this and as these things get more expensive, I
was just disappointed to hear that last year's presentation the the bathrooms were going to be open like I think something like eight months out of the year. Now it sounds like they might not be. I really would love that. Um I think it's a good project. I think it's
a necessary project. Um, I really just want to I I I'm for funding it, but I'm just wanting it to be I would like to see it be available for the longest amount of
time out of the year. Um, that's just I I wasn't necessarily thrilled with the current plan, but uh I do think it's important. That's why I gave it a three. And it's a big ask. It's it's a it's a large ask.
>> Great. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Tim, >> uh let's get this done. Tim. Tim, drop the mic. >> Drop the mic. Tim Neil, >> there you go. >> Okay. Get it done.
>> Get it done. >> Just do it. Somebody else said it. Okay, Bob. >> Tim Tim has just he's got great affection for the comfort house. Um I I think when I'm very supportive of
this. I think when we start to do the numbers, this is the poster child for bonding in the future and I think we might want to discuss how we parse that up. >> Yes. Thank you, Jonas. Yeah, I just
think there's some great uh programming going on down there. Uh Denise, who um has been hired to kind of be the swim swim coordinator um is getting a lot of people um at to the pool and when it's
improved, I I can see, you know, taking off even more. So, obviously, its location downtown and it being um surrounded by all the other improvements make it to me pretty key. I would say ditto to that um
to what everyone said. Jason, you have another comment. >> Yeah, I don't know if you want to discuss this now or not, but Bob, you made the comment about bonding. I'm curious. This would potentially affect the way I think about this project. Are you saying that 1.5 you think should be bonded or
>> No, I think a lower amount. I think we offset the bonding with some current payment and then think about bonding this on the straight line 10-year schedule. Uh, and again, it covers our future funds, but it's a very important
project just to get done as Tim pointed out. So you're not suggesting that and I don't know if we can even do this but that previous amounts that were allocated for the project like that we take the So you're not say saying we
take the whole let's just say 4 $5 million for the project and bond that and then previous allocations come back to the CPA. >> Um no no >> we can't do that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But did that >> this is just a larger discussion. I'm
saying that we when we think of this in terms of our current funds of 3 million bucks, we think of some portion as being bonded, some portion is being funded. That's all I'm saying. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> So, for example, we could say that we
would bond a million and use current dollars from the 3 million to fund the 500. >> Yes, exactly. So that would be one way to do it, you know, to get this over the finish line,
>> right? >> Okay. Well, it sounds like I'm hearing lots of folks in favor. It sounds like what it would come down to is how do we do this and how we um fund it. And I think I will pose that question to ask
the town for their opinion about um the bonding portion. I mean, >> I like the idea of splitting it some current use dollars and some borrowed. Um and so maybe we could have
a proposal for for that to consider. All right. Um, Civil War memorial tablets. Are we really at the very last one? That's amazing. Okay, who would like to
kick us off with that? It does seem like we were pretty much highly favoring this, so I don't know if we need tons of discussion, but Angus, maybe I'll move up to a five. >> Lead the way.
>> Move me up to a five. I'm ready. All right. So with that said, if we're all in agreement that Civil War tablets are a merit funding and we're it five, can we
put a placeholder figure of $75,000 in that next to it? People feel okay about doing that? >> Just >> I see some thumbs up. Jonas has a question. Um is this isn't contingent on
anything else that the Jones library is doing is it like the 75,000 will >> this is separate. >> Okay. So >> this is >> it doesn't mean we also need um the room the this is the transport and
preservation of them I believe right? >> Yes. Hold on. >> Yeah that's what it was. >> Yep. Yep. The room is being they're constructing a special room in the library for the >> which is that's already underway and
done and >> will be done. >> It won't it's not done yet but >> right but okay >> it's funding the installation. >> Yeah the town owns the tablets not the library but the library is to house them
in perpetuity I believe. >> Great. Thanks. >> And the putting dollars in this column K is really um just to give us an example of like where
are we and you know we don't need to um we're not making any commitments. It's just helping it's an exercise in trying to figure out um what we want to fund at what level.
Um, okay. It's 8:50. Um, I'm wondering if it would help to look at the the largest amounts maybe
and see um I mean just back sorry back to the war memorial bath house. That's that's it. I didn't hear anybody say anything different, but my question to the town would be, we seem to be in favor of this. We're
leaning towards this, and how might we best um fund it? And I think it's some portion as a as um in borrowing. Um maybe folks don't feel like they need
the town's recommendation on that. I could go either way. But my my recommendation was to sort of split it. Um one $1 million borrowed and 500 straight up. Um
again, just as a an example, not necessarily that we have to decide on that until we've talked about all the dollars all the way down. Bob, >> that would be my inclination, too. But I
also feel a strong need to consult Dave on this one just to find out how the town is thinking about the numbers. >> And what would you want to um
maybe it would help if I go through the list of the questions I have for town and then you all could um articulate a question for the bonding pieces. >> Yeah. Okay. So, the questions I have um
is um one is the question for Jones Library Inc. about um the amounts of money for each um aspect of the proposal. So we could
if there were if folks were inclined to fund them to some degree, but it sounds like it's less than the amount that they requested. What is the what is what are the options in terms of >> they didn't break that out? Well, that's not I you know what they had a very
detailed budget. I could look through that, but that's one question either I can get or they can tell me um for the mill work, the woodwork, etc. There was a question about how the money from the previous CPA grant had been
used. Um, there was a question about how many signs from last year's CPA funding are in production or have been produced for this year.
Um, there was a question about the master plan for the community pool fields etc. um war memorial to understand sort of what the is there a plan there >> um >> in place Ellen
>> the answer to that there's a a 2019 strategic plan for that whole property and um I can tell you really uh >> including the pool and fields
>> so does that answer your question we don't need to go further. >> It doesn't mention a skate park. I can tell you that. Um, that's not to say anything. It's just here it is, >> right? We don't >> The 2019 strategic plan proposes a
number of changes to the recreation areas around the war memorial pool, fitness circuit, basketball courts, fields, splash pad area, picnic area, and playground. >> Yeah. So I think um as long as your questions have are answered through that
I don't think we have another question but I do have a question for the skateart applicant to describe the difference between the 20 and the 40 >> request and um there was a question about where
other sources of funding for the housing trust come from. I think that's what I captured. Was there any other questions that folks had that I didn't mention that would help you make a decision?
>> Katie, I have a question. >> Yes, Angus. Um, I guess one question that I have, it it strikes me I I I worry that when we start getting into money, we could spend a lot of time thinking through like how much of something X thing we want to bond versus paper this year. And I guess one
question that I would have for the town is once we make our our proposals for how much funding, does the town just ultimately make its own decisions about how it's going to borrow money? So, if we've approved say $5 million worth of spending, only three of that can be
covered by current the current budget, 2 million would have to be bonded. And so then the town determines which pro how it's going to fund that $2 million of bonding, right? Or do we need to make a decision about what >> we have to make the recommendation? So,
getting their input is really helpful. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. just by dent of say just exactly what you just said. We we have to say which ones we recommend um to the town council that they approve
for borrowing. >> Got it. Thank you. Easy question. >> Yeah, Tim. >> Yeah, >> you had another Did you have another question? Um I Sean had in the past offered and I
think we should have him speak next week about the bonding and I would suggest we take a minute and make a decision in terms of which projects we might like to have bonded
and then have him come back with the numbers of what that would mean or what that would uh because we have to start doing the math soon to get into that 3 million. So that would be my suggestion. Uh >> yeah. >> Okay.
>> Yep. That sounds that sounds good. So those would be the larger projects. >> Probably the larger projects. Uh >> okay. Um it looks like Dave, you have your hand raised. Did you have a
>> Yeah, I was just gonna chime in. I mean given the lateness of the hour I will say historically what the CPA committee has done is done your do you know you you've the committee has done their their voting their ranking and then
um given that feedback to staff and working together with Shawn with Leah u staff have come back with a proposal on how to meet the the recommendations of
the CPAC. Um, so that's how it's done been done for many many years. I I I'm just trying to think about your time and and the idea that you might try to wrap up at this point. And I I can't see this
process being done in one more meeting uh unless staff are given an opportunity to kind of come back with some proposals for what to bond, what not to bond, um etc. So, I'm just offering that that's
how it's been done in the past and whether the committee wants to do it that way or not, that would be I think my recommendation. I don't know if Sean is still on the call, but that's how it's been done. That's I think Dave, you've articulated what I think I was saying, but probably not very clearly,
which is that would be my question to the town is um based on our conversations here in our ranking um to provide us with some guidance. It doesn't mean we take that guidance. It's it's it's not direction. It's just
here's some suggested approaches to how we might fund the projects we're trying to fund. some through borrowing and what the and I think to Tim your point was to if we get that feedback to understand the impact of that borrowing going
forward so we can make an informed decision. >> I think the challenging thing right now is it would be very helpful if you had numbers in that recommended total column. Without that, it's it's >> yeah, >> a little bit difficult to, you know, do
you want to fund something at a million dollars or less or $100,000 or 50, you know? >> Right. Right. >> That's where we have been historically and and when we've come in and and helped. >> Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that.
Um and I'm happy to I mean it is it is nine o'clock. folks wanted to go that extra hour, maybe even longer. I don't know. Um, we could um attempt to put in some
numbers here um and take a few minutes to do that to try to provide some guidance um for the town to give us actual feedback. Um are folks willing to do that? That's
that would help the process along and it would sort of keep us on track because we don't meet next week. We meet the following week. So, we give the town some time for that. Angus >> Sean, did you want to say something before I
It's up to Katie or is it okay if I speak? Katie, >> sure. I was I was going to the committee first, but that's fine. Sean, go ahead. >> Yeah. So, I mean, for us to model anything for you, I think the most helpful information is are there any projects you don't want to do? Are there
any projects that doesn't matter, you know, what money you have available, you don't want to fund it or you want to fund it at a lower amount? Um, if everything else is you want to fund it as high as possible within the constraints of the funding we have, then um we can try to do that. And then the
other thing I just wanted to to say based on the conversation earlier, I just want to point out like staff are here to support you. You're a town committee and Leah, myself, Dave, we're not here in the role of advocating for specific proposals. We're here to support you as a committee. Um we're
town staff. We're here to help you make, you know, make your decisions and to provide information. Um I I think it's going to be really challenging um to have a a relationship where you ask questions and we're here and you don't want to get those answers when we're
sitting right here. Um again, our role is to support you to make the best decisions you can. So, I just wanted to say that because, you know, I've been through a lot of CPA processes and I kind of felt like you the view was that we're here in the role of advocating for
town specific proposals, but that's not really our role. Our role is to to support you. No, I I appreciate that, Sean. We are grateful for that support and it has worked very well and I also appreciate Jason's um
notation and I do think it's something we have to as a committee uh a little grappled more fully with to decide on process going forward. Um so we're kind of figuring it out tonight and I appreciate everyone's patience. Um, but I really
appreciate what Sean had to say. Um, this has been it's a partnership really to get um to take a lot of dollars around very complicated projects um that we don't have a lot of expertise in and rely on the staff at the town's
expertise to help guide us. Um, but we bring, you know, our own perspectives and, um, we represent all the folks that write to us and call us and send us emails. Um, you know, we're representing their interests as well.
So, um, it's a it's a balancing act for sure. Um, I heard that it would be helpful to get some numbers in here, not anything that has to be solid, but something for us to think about. So, um, Angus, did
you want to >> Yeah. Uh, I I would be happy to talk about numbers. I think that's a good idea. I think it would be better for our meeting in two weeks. Uh, if I could just ask one clarifying question about that though um to the town staff in this recommended column. Um, do you want
uh the total amount that we would want to fund that project period whether it's through bonding or whatever. So for instance, if the war memorial bath house, right, if we want to make sure that we are able to meet the funding request of 1.5 million, however that's done, what should we put in that box?
>> Then the full amount. Yeah, put in the full amount of what you're looking to approve and then um based on your, you know, whatever you request of us, we'll come back with u a model of how it could be funded. >> Thank you. That's clarifying >> and that. >> Great. Thank you, Tim.
Yeah, I was going to suggest the same thing. I would propose we just go down one by one and uh someone propose a number and then we either vote or we sort of get some kind of consensus. And if you don't mind, I will start with
you. >> I know. I think it's it's great. I I I just want to with the one caveat to Tim's proposal, which is >> we're not going to be able to have an exhaustive conversation about these numbers. These numbers are not going to be voted on today.
>> It is guidance and we can make a total different decision in two weeks, but it at least gets a general sense of where this committee is at this moment, right? >> And we could change our minds. That's okay. But it's it's this moment in time.
So, I I would propose we follow Tim's suggestion, which is just go down one at a time and um not spend 20 minutes on each one. just sort of say, "Okay, that's fine. I'm close to that. I'd agree to close to that." Or, you know, you you could also vote. It could be
that you end up voting against something because of the amount. Um, and that's fine, but let's just move forward and know that we can make a different decision, but this is where we're leaning at the moment. >> Go Tim. >> Yeah, I was going to suggest let's go
the AM street development. I think there was kind of a consensus we should put 450 in there for now. Okay. >> And the uh >> I'm seeing thumbs up, so that's good. Keep going. >> I'm going to keep going unless And then same with the Simeon Strong House put
the 275 148 the part-time planner at 90. Uh I'm going to let's the I'm not so sure we have as much consensus on open space, so let's leave that open for now.
Municipal Housing Trust 575. I think people kind of would love to do that. We probably will have to reduce it. My guess >> I'm prop I propose 325. >> Oh, okay. >> Great. Great. This is I'm all in interest of expedience here, but can we
maybe go back? >> Perfect. >> Katie Kat, you mentioned >> Wait, Tim, hold on one second. Wait, hold on one second. Jonas has Jonas has a question. Go ahead, Jonas. Oh, Katie, you mentioned maybe 60,000 for the part-time planning coordinator. So,
maybe two years. >> She mentioned maybe funding for two years, 30,000 each versus because Tim, if you're about to say let's let's cut the open space improvements to I don't know what you were going to say. >> Yeah. >> I don't I think we you know like um
>> I guess one question more people kind of weigh in before we just blitz creek this. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, that's that's helpful. I think Jonas, thank you. I I guess what I we can come back and fine-tune. If it turns out, oh, when we get to the bottom it's $5 million, then we have to, you know,
we have to start fine-tuning, right? >> Okay. >> Well, I'd have a question for the town then. Is uh if we fund less than three years, is that going to uh be problematic in terms of someone wanting to take that job? I mean, three years, if we don't fund the three years, would
someone be a little hesitant to take the job? and they really the town wants them to be around for three years. So that that's my only hesitation there, but we can discuss that may be a question to the town. >> Yeah, I I' I've written that down as a
question. I I I'm not I wasn't proposing the 60. I was just using that as an example if we did. >> Um Right. But Jonas, you're >> and I'm not qu we're going down and this is that's like minuscule compared to the bigger.
>> Yeah. So let's let's move past that then. That's that's >> okay. Uh I don't know how people feel about the slate route. We had pretty good discussion about that the last time. So >> well would somebody else like to make a proposal? >> Yeah, I would propose we fund that at a
million dollars and then potentially discuss bonding it. It's a very long term. We could bond it for I think longer than 10 years. But >> I agree with that. >> And I would I would say that I would
love if the like if this is a project that can wait till next year. I'd love for the town to be able to say, you know, we think it should wait for another, you know, one more year. But >> and I would >> I'm in favor of funding it.
I would be in favor if bond definitely bonding. My my my feeling would be bonding and like as long as that gets conveyed and of course town council can do what they do but to me it would be a bond >> at that at that at that level.
>> Um we we did skip over open space and I didn't know if anybody else had a proposal for that. Jason, >> I would like to propose $150,000 for open space and taking
$50,000 from the signs. >> I don't think you can do more than requested. >> Yeah, I can propose $100,000 for open city improvements. >> Yeah, I I'd go for that. >> Good.
I would also like to propose 40,000 for the all-wheel skate park. I I would like to propose 50,000 for the signs, >> Angus. >> Yeah, I I you know, I think we'll
we're funding a lot of things. Uh so I think we're going to we're going to hit some uh uh money limits, but that's fine. Um, I I would personally recommend reducing the all wheel skate park, but I think it's also dependent on getting more clarity about their proposal. So, I
I don't I think with several of these, we're going to have to revisit. So, I don't we don't have to talk about that more here. >> Well, I I do I would be in favor of going to the using the $20,000 one for that, just knowing it could at least get it started one phase.
Um, they said it could be as low as 20, so I could take them on their word. >> Can I just I just want to if the 20,000 is just to try to do a site and some civic engagement.
I I am proposing the 40,000 because of those extra steps. I don't want to see this get drawn out into like, oh, we're going to do a study and then we're going to have to do the civic engagement, then it's three years later.
>> Okay. So, so the small ask the $20,000 isn't going to prevent us from funding any other project on this either. >> It's a small >> Let's just leave this Let's Let's leave this at 48 for right now and we can come back to it. Um there was a proposal for
50 for the signs. Um what about um the Mil River? This is the history the histo
Yeah. I was going to suggest $75,000. >> I'll second that. >> Yeah. With >> I think that's a good one. A haircut. >> Yep. Yep. with hopefully with the production of those inventory forms um coming out of that.
>> I'll propose 50,000 for the cemeteries >> seems fine. >> Uh I'm I'm going to go ahead with my proposal to reserve 48,000 in the hopes that we can um get Goodwin Church uh to not have to wait another year and a
half. >> I'll second that. >> I'll second that. or third and pickle ball. >> I think we're we've got to find some place to reduce and I would propose a
zero on that one. >> Nice second, third, whatever. >> Tim, >> uh just I was looking at uh Leah down the bottom the 4602 is that are you
actively online totaling everything up? So that means we quote spent 4.6 right now. >> Yeah. It doesn't include the 524080 for the um the bonding the payback. >> Oh okay. >> Yeah.
>> It's adding up the whole column and then also what we have >> and we have roughly 3 million. >> Right. So we >> Right. And just remember some of it can be bonded. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> It's not really a good total yet.
>> Yeah. We have um I can move it up again. >> I hear you. >> This is helpful. >> That's good. Keep it there. >> So, I heard a zero for pickle ball. I heard a couple of yeses. Is there anyone against that? Is anyone feeling like no? Wait a minute.
>> Is there any any argument for funding it by half to kind of keep it moving forward? >> I I would go for half. I mean, so much money and time has already been spent on the project. I would hate that to just have been for not.
>> All right, that's well that's a question for town is is can they get something up and running some portion of it with that or do they need the full amount >> sound studies and other >> are you okay >> aspects of this could be completely
there's the sound study there's similar to how >> but that's been done that's been done >> oh has yeah >> yeah that was in the last CPA funding >> this is I would >> bonding some of it. So I I don't think we should put zero. I think
>> so let's let's put half and then we can I think the town can understand that we're interested in supporting pickle ball to some degree but except for Bob who said zero but you know that if it's possible um to do a portion if it's not possible
then we may not have enough funding to do the 650. I support the zero as well. >> Yes. So do I. >> Oh, okay. >> I think you got quite a bit of support for zero. >> Okay.
Four zeros. There were three, I think, of partials. So, um I guess we'll keep it at zero. >> I'm for zero for the Jones Library.
>> That's the next one on the list. Thank you. >> I would second that. Pending a look at the menu. Katie, you talked about the detailed proposal and the various components of it. I would like to know a little bit more about that, but I would
go for a zero for now. >> I'd like to support a portion of it for the what the historic commission recommended, the mill work, etc. >> I agree. Um, I had to switch rooms, so I don't have my papers in front of me, but
um, yeah, I'd like to support the mill work and the trim work, exterior trim work. >> Yeah. >> So, that would be a an amount of money. We don't know. >> Uh, I think it is I think it is in their budget in their
>> I know, but I couldn't I couldn't find it, Ellen. I >> Oh, okay. And I I had to walk away from everything. My computer died, so >> Oh, no. Okay. Does anyone else have access to Jones to >> Yeah, hold on one second.
>> The I could not in the budget. I couldn't differentiate the portion. >> Hold on. Oh, yeah. Here it is. It's like 577, I think. 477 for wood carpentry repair.
the trim, the existing mill work, and then wood floor repairs 100. So 577 of the 1.3 or 1.2 >> Katie, does that include the exterior
trim work? >> It says repair of the exterior trim. Uh-huh. >> Okay. Thank you. It's salvaging the wood, reinstalling, general mill work restoration, repairing the exterior trim,
other wood salvage and wood floor repair. The others is the window repair and restoration which is 775. Okay, so we had a couple of zeros for Jones. It's Alan and I have spoken up about a portion of it. Anyone else on
either of those sides? >> I support the uh proportion as listed there. >> I I think it's fine. I I worry about how much bonding we'd be saddling future attacks with. So, >> um >> Exactly. That's what we have to once we
see the the realities of this. We might have to make a different decision, right? >> Mhm. >> Adjust this. Okay. Excuse me. Um, so what's the last one there? Is that the passive recreation?
Is that the signs? >> What are folks? >> Yes, >> I think that should be a zero. >> I think that's Yeah, that's what we talked about. >> That could be another year. They could come back. Yeah. I would definitely
encourage them to come back once they finish the survey. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think it's a great project. >> It is. >> Okay. Um I think um
is Dave still here? I can't see everybody. I see Shawn. Looks like Dave has Oh, there's Dave. >> Oh, there you are, Dave. Dave, is this um enough guidance um to give us a a a
sense from the town about possible ways of doing some of this? I mean, obviously, we're going to have to cut back in some of the places, but does this give you enough? >> Yeah, I think I think we can work with that. Sean is still on the call, but we
can if these are your if this is your guidance, we can kind of work from this and come back in two weeks with some recommended scenarios um that for you to consider. >> Thank you. I appreciate that.
>> Um okay. Well, it is 9:19. Thank you all for sticking with this. I know it was not easy. Um, but I really appreciate your
total attention, everybody, um, focusing and providing great input. Um any anything left um questions that you have for me or for the town before we sign
off >> the I'm sorry Katie maybe just one quick question for maybe Sean or Dave. Um what is the bonding interest rate now for maybe a 10 or 20 year bond? Any idea?
It's going to be around three or 4% somewhere in that range. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Great. >> All right. This was a long night. Thank you all. Um, >> we'll Yeah. >> Thank you.
>> So, there are no topics that I didn't reasonably anticipate 48 hours before the meeting. I think I have lots of questions here and I'll set up a time to check in with town on a few of these questions. Um,
but otherwise I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it everybody. Bye bye.