and we're ready to go okay um just so I'm going to call the uh meeting of the town services and outreach committee uh for April 3rd 2025 to order
at uh 10 o'clock in the morning and uh welcome everyone and uh this meeting is being conducted by a remote means um the uh authorization to do this has been
extended through June 30 2027 uh according to chapter 2 the acts of 2025 and this gives the ability of public bodies uh uh to meet remotely
um by a hybrid manner which is what we are doing today so um with that I wanted to make sure that all members of the committee uh can hear and be heard so that we know that we're in compliance uh
with that and uh so I'll start with councelor Ryan here Council Lord present uh Bob Hegner here uh Jennifer Tab here
okay and I am present um so let me do a quick agenda u review and uh think unless somebody has come in there's no members of the public um as of a couple
minutes ago but if there's no public comment we can always come back to it later to see if anybody has come in late um there are no town manager appointments to consider that's a
standard item that's listed on all agenda we don't have any minutes so um that will we won't be returning to that the uh principal discussion today will
be about the uh proposed transportation and parking commission and amendments to the uh town council policy regarding the control and regulation of the public ways and uh we will also spend a little
bit of time at the end of the meeting talking about future meeting schedules and agendas um so that takes care of that uh just looking quickly we still we
have one attendee now um who's uh observing if that uh member of the public wishes to make comment u please raise your hand otherwise we will come
back to public comment later to see if anybody else is joined u see hand going up with the request um then what I would like to do suggest is that uh in the packet for
today's meeting and sent also to members of the committee separately is a list of um initial issues that um we need to determine in order to complete our work on the
project and uh there were seven things on the list and uh if Athena hasn't she could put it on the screen but it's not necessary or I could do it too if I have that the ability to share um but it has been
provided to committee what I would suggest if there is agreement from the committee uh to this is that we begin by quickly looking at the list and making sure that um I have captured everything
that needs to be done if there are any suggestions for changes in wording for the way that I have framed the issues or um any that you don't think we
should be talking about or any you want to add i want to um get that those corrections made to the list so um the I think is she started to share so is this the is this the correct the
list okay i can't I can't edit so um just have to take notes so um let's go back to the question um if uh is there any request to either change
wording add subtract or um change order okay seeing none then uh I think we should just proceed if uh uh Jennifer um I don't know if we need to do this
but just there may be some issues that we explicitly don't want to come under uh the commission's purview so is that would we want to explicitly state that or just if they're not in the list by not being in the affirmative list
are you speaking of issues um give me an example because I want to make sure it's not under scope okay um like if new parking structures that is something I would want to see be
remain with the council um and not taken out of the council's hands well I think that there are issues for TPC to consider and uh one and two together constitute scope
so wouldn't that fit under the scope question yeah so we could do we want it to be part of the scope or explicitly have it not be part of the scope i think there's certain that we should be clear we shouldn't
just it shouldn't be ambiguous we should be very clear on where we want it to remain uh there is a separate issue that I u I don't know if I want to refer to have
George help us with this discussion but one of the items in the agenda was uh our most recent discussion of the scope issue and uh something that
uh George had been working on with us so uh councelor Ryan uh do you agree that what uh Jennifer's raised is really part of the scope discussion well it does involve the question of
scope but the document that we're working on u doesn't include or have anything to say about parking structures it it's about basically what we're reviewing is the council policy regarding control and regulation of the public
way so I don't see how this is something that needs to be it's simply not um under it's not part of the remit at all that I'm okay that's fine as long as it's clear if it's not that was my question do we want to I mean I can't
even imagine or just I mean if a parking structure be was proposed it it would u you know go through a whole series of processes and reviews i can't imagine that any of them would involve a
TPC except maybe permits in I don't know the document you may see something and you might think okay you know if that's you know but at the moment I just don't see it as even a factor in this but as we go through the scope um
if it comes up you can raise it again you can say wait a minute you know how would this play out if there was a discussion about a parking structure but That's my thought i think that uh I agree with that i don't think we
need to really take that up now uh because it really isn't in the public way policy uh but we may want to make note
of that uh of say that things that are not covered and are not considered within the purview of the of the TPC if u ultimately what we're going to need to
do is recommend um an amended uh charge for the committee amended from what was originally proposed to us so is there is
that answer the question for now yes thank you okay so going back to the questions I um then u I guess the the first thing that we
really need to talk about and it came out of a little bit out of our discussion with our uh with the Northampton people is whether the TPC will make final decisions on some matters
they do not um it was envisioned in our original discussion that there would be some issues that would be so I think that we probably need to sort of decide whether there are
things that the commission our commission should make final decisions on and if so what they are you have any counc Andy in the document that everyone
has it's in the packet um we have already made one pass at this and um you know identifying things that at least initially we thought could rest solely with TC TPC and things that we felt after discussion should come back to the
council for a final decision and I think um what we should do if people haven't done it already just go through the document one final time um things are marked in red um and uh to say we still agree with that or we want
to change it or whatever but we actually have made I know it's been a long process and we probably people are trying to remember when did we have this discussion um but it was actually back in December um and uh the document reflects uh I think fairly accurately
the consensus at that time so if we just go through it I'll put it up on the screen that's my suggestion um uh section by section and just confirm that we're satisfied with the way it reads or if we want to change it we change it uh
and that should address the issue of scope well there are two types of issues I think that we had talked about one is that there are issues that we um whether we would just vest those decisions
within the commission and then there were other issues we talked about uh I remember downtown parking uh being one of them where it would not be vested in the commission
and we also have uh got into the question which still may need u assistance on from town attorney mhm that was about the polls
[Music] jennifer yeah I think maybe if we want to go through that document because there I agree with George there's probably some items we can just agree that we want to recommend stay with the commission and
they it does not have to be referred that they can make the final decision i would say polls would be one of them if legally permitted okay um do you have the doc you want to ask to share your screen
instead George and uh see if we can put the document on uh okay um do you have it in I have it on my Yeah I'm not on my computer here u that's the problem i I work with two computers i The town
computer is something that I Anyway it doesn't matter um hopefully you or Athena can put it up on the screen because it's in the packet yeah um or everybody's just going to have Yeah sorry is it the changes of scope for Yes it's the change of scope
documents in the packet and it just needs to be up on the screen and I just I'm not able to do it on on the uh computer sorry do it on my home computer but that's not what I'm using yeah thanks that's it that's it
and actually yeah right that's it so the way this document is structured it it it describes the current situation in the far left column uh it describes the use and then it describes the current status way things are at the moment and what the proposed
change is so if you look at the very first example right now all long-term parking requests um rest with the town manager he provides a report um and what this proposal is suggesting is taking a burden off the town manager and putting it onto TPC they would handle this and
then they would So let's take that as a in our initial discussion no one raised any concerns or objections paul certainly didn't um and so that was the very first item so as we discuss this very first item
I'm just going to point one thing out and we should get it out of the way very quickly with this discussion and that is in Northampton it was very clear that uh decisions that are being made by the
mayor who's in that role as the chief executive of the city uh gets recommendations but uh they're only uh the the limit of the commission's role is making
recommendations you're just not making decisions and uh we had envisioned a step further in investing certain things with the decision with with the commission and is
that where we're is that where we're staying Jennifer um I I would like to see us stay here stay there and for this first um item long-term parking request I would be
comfortable with the commission having um the authority to make the final decision on this item okay um see yeah I'm I'm comfortable with vesting some decision authority to the TPC um and and I agree with
everything on this except maybe traffic controls which we can talk about later but um I think all these are are are good okay so agreement number one we'll just check that off
i can't edit this andy um are you able to make notes are you making notes yes okay i I'm also doing that so between the two of us yes Athena thank you but we will we're responsible for making sure that the notes are taken thank you
it probably is um available if you'd like to have it word i mean it was in prior packet and I think I could send it to you if
not but let's just continue on yeah I think two people taking notes is fine i think that's probably right so George you want to continue on yeah my thought is if we just and the the numbering and lettering refers to the actual policy document so it would
be helpful if people have it in access not on the screen but if they in their home computers or somewhere um so uh 2B if you go and look at the town current town policy document um you will see that that's what this refers to so essentially it's making changes to that
document um the next item is 2D permanent or other parking requests and I currently these permanent or other parking requests things like permanent parking changes modification of fees or other requests not detailed
about above such as parking permit required etc this currently stands with it sits with the town council um and with authority to review take action hold public hearings and refer to relevant committee etc here we're
proposing that it sit with TPC um with authority to review and hold public hearings um but here the after discussion we we came to the consensus I believe that they would only make a recommendation they do not have the authority to
actually decide on permanent uh changes or the changes that are listed here under 2D but they would send them to the town council and town council then would would vote yay or nay and I think the thought was well I'm sorry I'll shut up
uh Jennifer um I I would support this as written i would think this should be a recommendation um to for the council to have final approval i don't know that it but we'll get to this discussion later i don't know that it needs to be referred to a
council committee but um I would feel more comfortable with these kinds of permanent changes um with it being uh the with the commission being vested to make a recommendation uh rather than the final decision
uh yeah I agree um and I also agree that I somehow we need to get it uh communicate that this is not something that should then be referred to a committee because that'll just prolong the agony and it'll duplicate everything
that's been done so we need to visit the authority in the TPC to think about it and make a recommendation to the town council and it's a yay or v nay vote by the town council and we're done i I don't know if we can put that in here
but that's should be the operating procedure yeah I think we have later in the list um the question of uh whether things should be referred back to TSR yeah it's in it's
number five on the list yes so it's it is something that we do need to come to and if we're following the process so are we on to talking about 3C
well George has his hand up i don't know if did you want to comment well I just to say I agree with the the the uh my other two colleagues um I don't I mean Bob raised a good point i don't know how specific we can get in this the way the language is written currently um doesn't
say yeah or nay about what the council does with this i would imagine in the best of all healthy worlds if the council had questions about um uh you know what TPC sent to them um first of all they'd have a chance to speak to the
the representatives at a council meeting and if they still weren't happy they could send it back to TPC with some specific questions or clarifications or they could just vote it up or down and we would certainly like them not to say "Well let's send it to TSO or you know whatever or CRC and see what they
think." Um uh I think that we all agree that that's not what we'd like the council to do i just don't know how we can other than in our general report we can just urge the council not to do that but I'm not sure we can put it in a policy document that that restricts what the council can or cannot do um it's
sort of its own body and can do whatever it wants um so I agree and I'm hoping the council will listen to us uh and we'll talk about it as Andy said a little bit later yeah because when uh if you look at the second sentence
of five in the list of doc of questions that I structured should the decision be reflected in the council rules of procedure and we might even suggest
language if that was the will of this committee that we would propose councelor Lord yes um I also agree with my colleagues and then I wanted to know for each of these do you want to hear an affirmative or should I if it's just there's a a comment to add that hasn't
been said or a disagreement do how would you like us or me to participate with this um each block document today um if you if you're in disagreement with the way it's going make sure that you
say so i think that what we're probably going to do is go through the whole scope questions and then see if we want to take a vote at that point okay thank you it it take a vote on each one be kind of
overwhelming true story votes thank you so moving along then is it We're 3C yeah we're 3C um this is long-term public way closures um and this is for all closures
not subject to 3A which is in the document um and not request for seasonal sidewalk or road closures and currently it rests with the town council in consultation with the town engineer police chief etc and what we're suggesting or proposing
is it rest with TPC with full authority to review and take action um so this takes something off our plate and puts it on their plate completely and they can decide how it goes jennifer
okay this is kind of an extreme example will probably would ne not happen but it you know I've heard in planning board in some discussions or public comment um that it might be a good idea to close off part of North Pleasant Street downtown and have it be a pedestrian
plaza so would that come under long-term public way closures i I'm I know that's kind of an extreme example but I would think if if that kind of a you know something that permanent and that that would make would really you know have a
huge impact in the town we would want that to come to the council and not be at with this commission so I'm I guess I'm asking could could those kinds of permanent changes if we approve this and give the TPC full authority to take
action could could that kind of a decision rest with the TPC uh yeah um an issue came up yesterday in JCPC which is there was a a resident request
to uh fix culverts under I can't remember the name of the street um but it's basically flooding and eroding property because the culvert no longer handles the volume of water uh that comes from the current rainstorms and uh
the superintendent of public works said the simplest solution is to basically just close off the street at either end and and just take out the culvert and let the the stream just flow freely through there um that would be another case in point
where this I guess would fall under the the TPC but there isn't really any and I I'll bring this up later on um there isn't any real uh process to make decisions
like these um and you know they're probably one-off decisions made by um the council uh or the manager um depending on what's what's involved and it's probably better to have it this
type of decision rest in the TPC so that they make a reasoned approach and and and you know they they kind of make a decision based on what's good for everyone and not based on what you know the cost or whatever so
that so I I I do you know reasonable people can disagree with this but I do think we need to see if the TPC can manage uh decisions like this
yeah um I'm a little lost do you do you have the docu the full document with you George yeah I have it on the screen um I don't know what is 3A um 3A is refers to temporary closures of
and the town council delegates to the superintendent of public works uh these are you know thing where he's uh these are requests for all temporary short and long-term road sidewalk closures required for maintenance and work um and so that seems to be non-controversial
and and two is town council delegates to the police chief and fire chief authority to review and act on all requests for temporary short and long-term road or sidewalk closures required by police or fire for public safety reasons again I think non-controversial
um so uh it would help if we could think I mean Jennifer's given us an example it'd be helpful if we could think of any other examples of long-term public way closures um would would Bob just
described closing a road temporarily to repair culverts is that what it was actually it was a permanent closure yeah i'm not sure it's a serious proposal because the people have to use the road to get in and out they have a river on their
street yeah exactly so I I don't serious but what what what the superintendent said was Okay you get involved in all sorts of wetlands issues and state issues and it's a very very very expensive process to replace culverts so
I mean if they close off the road Bob then how do people get to their homes well they they close it off they can get out either side it would just be an inconvenience to So that stretch would be just shut down yeah right you know it's it's kind of like the there's a
there's a bridge over the rail trail right by Ammerst College there that is blocked off basically it would be like that okay okay okay so it is a serious proposal i'm sorry okay it was Well it was semi-serious but I mean it was it
was the only inexpensive solution practical inexpensive to a to a a you know a problem that's going to be millions of dollars to fix okay i mean what if in the beginning going back to the first year of having a
council uh the decision on Station Road was instead of a temporary bridge we were going to long-term close station road in order and just wait until we had
funds to do a permanent bridge replacement that would have been fairly good example i think that you would not want to give that up i mean long
term has a has a significance to it jennifer yeah I I think long-term we should maybe air on the side of caution and have it be a recommendation to the council and if it's something
that's you know not controversial I think the the council would probably follow the recommendation of the commission but yeah for example with station road if you know I I do think that whoever is on this commission will be looking out for the interest of the
entire town but you could have a situation where no one on the commission is directly impacted by a permanent or long-term not permanent but long-term closure on station road and it wouldn't even have to come to the council for approval so I would feel more
comfortable if that's the only way we can ensure that well yeah I I would feel more comfortable for long-term closures of the public way that it come before the council for um approval and maybe that could also be an item that doesn't
have to be referred to a council committee but I I just I doesn't feel comfortable giving that much authority to a bo a body that we the council have no direct connection to and
we haven't even gotten to whether there will be a council representative on this commission but if there isn't then it really is just delegating the authority um I I think that's a bit of an abnigation if that's the word of our responsibility
well we have three examples now um of what a permanent long-term public way closure could look like um and they're not fantasies um they you know two of them have you know have happened and one
could happen um and I guess the question is are we comfortable with leaving that decision um in the hands of a essentially an unelected citizen plus you know town staff
body and I think given some of the discussion we've had up to now I think generally this committee has been uncomfortable with doing that that seems to be this the the general I mean initially My my initial thought was give everything to these guys
everything we have better things to do um listening to you thinking about it um I've moved somewhat toward a more position of there are you know so recommendation as opposed to decision so
here we could take the language that we have elsewhere i mean basically take the language just above it and say that they would have authority to review and hold public hearings and then make recommendation because it's a it's a
permanent um excuse me it's a long-term public change i think so i agree with that but Jennifer you know I was um just going to agree with with what George said but I also I
think and again I there's I I I I think that this commission should have the expertise to really review and make an informed recommendation because I too would like to see fewer items i know I've said this before but being referred back to a council committee and again I
draw from like the solar bylaw working group where you had a committee of experts and then you know I think it's it's good that CRC is reviewing it but we don't have we don't bring the expertise that
the members of the solar bylaw working group brought to the subject matter so I think I I do like that the recommendations would be presumably formed by an entity that has the
expertise to bring those recommendations to the council and I don't think we would have to have it referred to a council committee this would be another one of those items yeah I agree with uh George Jennifer i think I think this should come back to the council for approval but I also you
know any any time that any any recommendations that comes from TPC we shouldn't refer to a committee we should you know I I agree that we if we have questions or issues we can refer it back to the TPC but we can't just replicate
what the TPC has done with people who don't know what they're talking about for one of a better term so we're moving this to the recommendation so the language would read um and this is the language that I'm going to put into my version of this
but make sure everyone it's essentially the language that's up above so it would read TPC with authority to review hold public hearings and make recommendations uh to the council actually the language is recommendation but final approval
rests with town council eventually we might alter that slightly and just say and make recommendations to the town council i don't think we need the final authority that's kind of for us just reinforcing what we're thinking but the document would simply say that it goes
to the council for a vote okay okay so we are to the next item you've listed this is 3GI and this one is split into two A and B and again um well so at
the moment um so a um is anything involves a permanent change to a road or sidewalk which involves placement of utility structures bus shelters benches permanent signs electric vehicle and other charging stations bike share
stations addition or removal of crosswalks it's a bit of a laundry list and I think eventually when this goes back to Paul and we'd want to make sure that this list is as exhaustive as we can make it but it currently that's the
list and this is the one that involves the issue of poll hearings and so in the in the middle column there it just says pole hearings we need to have this clarified i did actually take a brief layman's look at the the MGL and
the language does refer specifically to alderman and select board in other words to the elected uh you know bodies um being involved in this process but does that mean that TPC just can't have anything to do with it or does that mean that they can do kind of the things
that we've been anyway so we need to get that resolved but currently the way it stands is that we were suggesting that this laundry list of items go to TPC with full authority they can handle this we don't they doesn't need to come to council
jennifer I'm comfortable with that except for I th just for discussion um I'm not sure how I feel about the um crosswalks and I guess George so we you know on Amity are
in our two districts there residents have a lot of concern about crosswalks how do you feel about the final decision being with the commission because for all the other items I'm good with that well one of the u I'm sorry one of the I
think advantages of this approach is that it says to residents and to counselors who representing them here's where you go to have this addressed right now it kind of you go and talk to the town manager and he talks to DPW and
then they talk and D so at least in theory this would clarify the process but whether you get what you want in the end but that's true even in the current system i mean that's um so right now it's more of a matter of u just you know
talking to somebody and maybe something happens maybe it doesn't now it says it goes to them and they decide and they have to have a you know it's in public people come and they can make their case they can explain why this is a problem for them and why they think it should be
done um as opposed to the way it currently happens which is kind of out of the public eye yeah so I'm good with that you're okay with removal with crosswalks
being in the authority of the commission yeah that that's that's what I would say and I think Jennifer would agree yes i mean we did see with like Heatherstone Road you have residents on the same street coming they have opposite
positions right right which is something that we're probably going to come back to later when we talk about where that issue is going to be going and how it fits into our schedule bob Yeah I um this is something
I I I wanted to bring up with the traffic controls but I think the crosswalks you can argue is a traffic control um issue um right now the process for residents to get a say a new
crosswalk if they want one um other than calling up the the super the you know the DPW superintendent or the the town manager or or talking to their uh council rep is to submit a
uh resident request to the JCPC and this came up you know we had some we had some requests uh for traffic calming measures and they would be things like signs you know flashing signs and and crosswalks and
um Guilford pointed out that there really isn't a process for prioritizing these that nobody is really responsible for prioritizing which ones get there so the squeaky wheels get noticed at least maybe not acted
upon uh whereas other people who may not be squeaky wheels don't maybe get what they want so I think it's better to have something like the TPC be the place where these things are adjudicated or thought about and and talked about and
prioritized and then they they can come back to the council and say you know we we want to put a crossroad here we don't want to put a crosswalk there we want to put a you know a flashing sign there we want to reduce the traffic uh the speed limit over here because we think it's
the right thing to do for the broader set of people and I I think I think I kind of like that um again it's again these are going to be experts so experts are what better hand able to handle this
than me i don't know anything about trafficcoming um you know and I can I can voice my opinion but it's just my opinion so anyway I I would that's kind of a long way of saying I I I like the TPC having full authority here and I I
when we get to the discussion of traffic controls I I think the TPC ought to also have full authority there so Okay so it sounds like we have agreement um also I would just remind everyone
that this is a policy document that we are amending or proposing and so it can be changed very easily it's not something written in stone so if we find after a couple of months or whatever if if at some point the council finds that this there's a problem in a particular
area it can go back and revise the policy so maybe again in our own thinking we might air somewhat on the side of trying to give TPC more authority than um then and then see how it plays out um because changing this is
not is not that difficult but we do need to uh still investigate the poll hearings question as to whether there's a statutory problem and if that were the case then I guess we'd have to have some kind of separate in the language somewhere I'd say except
for poll hearings which must be you know held before the council um I still wonder if you couldn't have the poll hearings and all that done before TPC and then they just send the recommendation to council and then the council will that satisfy the law i
don't know that's what we'll find out yeah did you get a uh it's an interesting question did you get feeling from Northampton as to whether the commission even talks about polls i'm not sure i didn't No I I don't have
a hint but my recollection was that they said that their town attorney advised that they could not delegate poll hearings to their commission but we would um we would want to check with our attorney well that's such an
antiquated like state requirement i think they should revisit that it's funny because we can delegate zoning hearings to a council committee but not these but um unfortunately Mass General laws aren't written with clarity consistency and actionability
we're dealing with real property and we're dealing with you know something that the town actually owns and people want to make changes or alterations to it put polls up or whatever um and so I think there's there might be a logic to
it even as antiquated as it may be but let's see what the lawyers say it's always great when they disagree i love that that's that could be we could have a one interpretation versus another but should we go on to the next one yes this is B if we could just slide that
down um the screen i don't know who's controlling the screen but if we could just slide that down or you can yeah thank you thank you so we divide it into two and B as you
can see is major roadway or sidewalk redesigns and other public way requests relating to roads as opposed to parking or commons and exclusive of maintenance and repair in a normal course of business as I read that I'm thinking do
I really understand that second part i don't know but it uh we did in our discussion uh feel that the these kinds of major roadway changes really do require council uh approval it shouldn't just be left to a body like this and so
we broke this out and uh the language I believe is should be similar to what's above authority to review hold public hearings and make recommendations to the council is what we have for this okay so I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly so
exclusive of maintenance and repair means maintenance and repair would not come to this commission that that's just something public works would decide or that it wouldn't have to come to the council for approval because I'm I'm good i don't think the
council needs to deal with maintenance and repair in the normal course of business i think that what we talked about was that was three
A or B so does that even need like does it need to be there if it's contained somewhere else it has to do with short-term clo I mean just closures where you have to you know you close off a sidewalk or a stretch because you're going to have to do some work or maintenance on it right so so
we're saying that doesn't need to come before this commission or the council which I would agree with currently it's yeah the authority is given to um like DPW or the police right or police another question does this if there was
a dis discussion or decision to make a street one way would that come under this box it's not a redesign um it's a [Music]
public well I could I don't know other would be so I'm just thinking so on Mlen Street um there's parking on one side it's a it has a lot of traffic for really narrow street and there's been some
residents have expressed interest in maybe making it one way between Lincoln and um Kendrick Park so where would would that be part of this be mhm it is a
um it would be a a change a major roadway change I guess um and it's not obviously maintenance and repair so I would think it would fall under this and it would come to the council for final approval i'm good with what's written there in both those boxes now
right right so it would fall under B' be my understanding so this would and this is one where the council because it's in red [Music]
yeah I I would feel comfortable more comfortable leaving it with the council well I think it's an interpretation jennifer raises a question i mean some like any document like any policy document there's going to be you know cases we're not thinking of or I mean we're trying to think as much as we can
and that's why we'll have it reviewed one more time by Paul and by I assume by folks at DPW um but um even in the best of scenarios they're likely going to be places of interpretive people are just going to look and go "Okay this we want
to make this a one-way street." and they're going to look at the document and they're going to say okay where does this who who who gets to decide this and my totally uninformed and immediate thought is well that would fall under B but and I would be good
with that have go to the commission and then final but somebody else could read it and go well you know it's it's actually yeah I don't know it's a permanent change to a public way um it's
a Uh it's a roadway redesign right it is a roadway redesign you're you're changing you know something about the road it's you're not physically changing it but it's a redesign and so I think that should be pretty straightforward i hope
okay so I think we're leaving it as Yeah recommendation of the council I think that's right uh the one place where we did make that change is North Pleasant Street along Kendrick
Park and it was made into one way and I think that was a an example where it was a big enough change that somebody other than just the commission sign off on it
traffic controls one of my Yeah Bob has his hand up but one of my immediate questions I don't even what is a you know what what qualifies as a traffic control um but I'm maybe this is turn of art and is it clear to everybody else but um
crosswalks for instance um Bob mentioned so which under modification of speed limits limits and other traffic controls bob yeah i I I I wanted to argue that um I mean I could I I again we could go
either way but um right now there really isn't any process where we as a town prioritize where we're going to put crosswalks and things like that and it
will be good to have TPC weigh in on this whether they it comes back to the council for final decision or not i I'm you know I I could go either way on it but I I do think
that the TPC should um get people should send their their requests into TPC have TPC review their requests and then make a recommendation or make a decision and
I I think rather than having um residents make requests for traffic calming or or traffic controls that should all go through TPC and TPC should come through JCPC and say "We would like
you to spend $150,000 on these three controls." Um and then JCPC can make that decision um but right now there it's just it's just a free-for-all and it's not there's no real process and and
Guilford mentioned this he said there's no real process for prioritizing these and so I I I'd rather have somebody like the TPC being the filter that looks at these and says "Well you know speed bumps on
this road don't work." um and um rather than having Guilford or somebody kind of make a decision without without some sort of due process so that's my thoughts [Music]
mhm the crosswalks have generally been uh recommendations from TPW and I'm thinking of the ones again around Kendrick Park there was a crosswalk that was a
sort of place that goes directly to the playground from that crosses East Pleasant Street near the Mexican restaurant Garcia and now they would they would make that request to TPC if we go forward with
this it would go to TPC and they would be at least at the moment they would have the authority to make a decision one way or the other but but because one of the members of DPC is a DPW so it arose from DPW that one right that was the point jennifer
I I agree with Bob that's all i'd be comfortable with this being um definitely comfortable with the uh commission making the recommendation but maybe even having I could go either way on whether they have
the final approval but right now we're leaving it as uh it's a recommendation of the council yeah I'm good with that okay uh speed limits that's the
uh why did why do we think this should come back to the council we don't have any expertise in speed limits i don't even know what truck limits i guess whatever truck limits means also weight is weight
is weight okay well again I you know I would turn to the experts on this i have no idea what is makes sense or what doesn't so why why not just leave this with why did we I just can't remember why did we say this should go back to
the council there must have been a reason i just don't remember what it was i think that it's may have been as much as anything that we hear from constituents a lot about it bob yeah I think I think that I think
that's right i mean I think this is one thing that you hear a lot about from constituents and I mean I I think I was one who held the view that this should come back to the council but now the more I think about it um I I I really
think it's better to have this be through the TPC i I mean again I could go either way on this one in terms of at a minimum they should make a recommendation you know maybe it's maybe
we can't um delegate this authority to the TPC but I I do think the TPC should be involved in looking at this and coming up with a recommendation at a minimum so
that's a good part of this um and I I I you know again I don't see if the TPC makes a strong recommendation one way i mean I I'd be as a counselor I'd be inclined to agree with the TPC's
decision um rather than try to to to second guess it so I don't know but I could I could go either way on this jennifer yeah I'm sorry i must have spaced for a minute because I I thought that we were talking about this before when I said I agreed with with Bob and I
did agree with Bob on both boxes but B above I definitely feel strongly that has to go back to the council with this traffic controls i'm actually yeah I'll go with the majority but I would be good with the TPC
actually making the final um decision for all the reasons i think they have the expertise and this seems like um a matter all these would be matters that fall squarely within their um Bailey Wick
george yeah i think again as I just said earlier this can be revised so if we we have problems with it we can always come back and fix it or change it but I'm kind of leaning towards giving TPC as
much authority as we can um and as Jennifer just said and Bob said it it's expertise i don't see what the council would bring to this um I had a question about rapid whether the RR FPS B's or whatever they are rectangular
flashing beacons um do they fall into this category are they considered traffic control um or is that signage um but that's something that you know in my district I've had a number of requests for and as I understand this policy if
we change it or amend it those kinds of requests would go to TPC um and they would um you know but it's a money thing as Bos pointed out so they can't just say "Okay yeah we're going to put in a beacon there um we don't have the money for it so we're going to have to you
know so there's the question of funding." Um but uh I kind of would like all this to be in one place and I'd like them to make the decision and if residents come to us we say "Well glad you asked that question i I share that concern and guess what but we have an
expert body now that deals with this um and so that's where you need to go yeah this one I'm a little bit more conflicted about because I do think that uh there are times when we hear from
constituents or our own uh representative nature of our positions we recognize problems and uh it will get kind of weird if we as
counselors make recommendations to say we want the commission to consider something bob um well I wanted to kind of reference you know with reference to crosswalks um there was a proposal from Wildwood
Cemetery to the JCPC to put a a crosswalk in there with RFBs or whatever they are RFBs um and uh you know there was no money for it um and we kind of you know Guilford kind of threw up his
hands and said "Well I don't know you know how can I prioritize this?" So you know I think yeah we may get some crossworks coming from some crosswork walk requests coming from DPW but there they come from other places as well and
then right now DPW sort of has to try to deal with them and I'm not sure that that's better than a TPC which which is a body that includes DPW but other people making that decision people from
other with other perspective ives um so again I I think at a minimum I think TPC ought to be the body that addresses these things as I said I could go either way on whether we you know final approval with rest
with the town council or with the with the TPC i mean I it would be more efficient but in well in either way in either case I think we need
to somehow also include a recommendation that TPC would come to JCPC with with requests specific requests for uh traffic calming measures that require
you know that that are beyond what is normally in the DPW budget um I mean some things they can DPW can cover with their their their own requests but sometimes um there there's more requests than
their dollars in the budget to deal with so I think rather than have individuals coming to JCPC I think individuals should go to TPC and TPC should be the filter that is applied
before it gets to P JCPC that was a a lot a lot of things rolled into one one comment but you would not have the final decision made by TPC they would make a
recommendation i could go either way on that Andy i I I mean I I understand the council may not want to give this up but maybe this is a recom we we say we're
we're we're not uncertain on this uh and leave it up to the council to kind of make a decision on whether or not they want to w with you know retain their authority or or or delegate their authority again as George has said we
can come back to this if it's not working we can come back and change it this gets into um another question is that uh when you get Northampton
situation all decisions are made either by the mayor or the council and uh we haven't really talked about whether there should be town manager decisions on any of this this strikes me
as one because you've got money involved and uh maybe there should be something that if there's a significant u amount of capital
uh that it should be with the with the approval of the town manager jennifer uh just maybe a note um do so there are going to be certain items that the TPC part of their charge will be going
before JCPC so should we make a note to include that in the commission charge that that will be part of the responsibility because we're talking about TPC see having a representative that will go before
JCPC presumably each year to make requests for changes that they're recommending or that they've adopted i guess what I'm saying structurally there's going to be a
direct line from TPC to JCPC so should that be part should that be explicit in the charge isn't JCPC only making recommendations to the town manager for what to include in the capital improvement program in
the decision yeah but still I guess what I'm just thinking is cuz I wasn't even thinking that JCP that I mean it's fine they but that that is part of what we're now saying is a responsibility of the traffic and
parking commission is to make their case to JCPC so I'm just asking if that should be part of their charge when we get to that part of our assignment george It's a good question i'll put it in the notes
um I think it is the a larger question perhaps is when this body is making recommendations or actually excuse me well either making recommendations or making decisions that involve the town spending money but
um that would seem to be either ultimately the town manager's perview or the council's perview if it's actually of course it's if it's a recommendation they're just saying we're recommending you do this and um then you make up your minds if we're leaving it in their authority and they make a decision that
this is what's going to we're going to put a crosswalk here we're going to put a a beacon here whatever um they actually don't control the purse um so right they don't have their own budget exactly so if they're making
recommendations or actually making decisions that involve a an outlay of funds it would seem that that would really have to go ultimately to some authority that actually does have financial say so that's that's really
something we haven't I haven't thought much about is I know I want to give them as much authority as possible i want them to give them as much leeway as possible but in cases where the decision involves spending money surely they can't they cannot be the decide they
can't that's not going to happen but then I think it if you're going to follow the charter which is ultimately what we have to do it goes to JCPC jcpc makes a recommendation
uh one way or another and it which then goes to the town manager town manager decides whether to include it in his recommended [Music] uh capital improvement program and it
goes to the council as part of the CIP approval process yeah I was I was going to add that Andy i was going to say exactly that that that even if it's if they go if TPC goes
to JCPC it's essentially a recommendation to the manager who then makes a recommendation either you says yay or nay and makes a recommendation to the council for the final so maybe yeah under traffic controls it should just say and make recommendations to the town
manager so it has the authority on under traffic controls to hold you know meetings and reviews etc but the recommendation that it makes um which could involve expenditure funds could uh goes to the town manager and then he takes it from
there okay we can do that with that yeah that's a possibility because I think we agreed that going sending it to the council which has no particular expertise or knowledge in this area um other than you
know financial responsibilities um so it might make sense to just have this particular item uh go to the town manager with a recommendation and he will look at this as well i mean he he'll have a chance to review this he's not here obviously today but he will have a chance to review this and if he has a problem with
that he can get back to us but um our thinking is that it should go to him because it's going to involve potential expenditure of money so I just have a um logistical whatever question so would the chair of
TPC go to JCPC and make the request or would it just the request go to the town manager that's I guess what I'm asking does there have to be a formal line from the TPC to JCPC
or are we seeing the town manager as staffing would he be at most of the TPC committees so we're not imagining a role for him at the moment i don't think we haven't had the discussion but I guess I'm just asking would would the chair have to go to JCPC or just communicate that to the
town manager some You did raise a good point though uh Paul is uh was not going to be able to be here today and uh we left it that in my last discussion with him that he
would get the report of our recommendations and uh at our next time that we take this up at which we will also at that point get input from the uh transportation advisory
committee and any other so we choose to send it to so we would it would come back to us we this isn't our final uh vote on it uh Bob yeah I just you know having
sat on JCPC for two years the the the process works that it's we start with a list of projects that's gone through the town manager and going out to the various departments and it's usually more than what we can afford to pay to
buy uh so so we have to sit and look at each one of those and say do we do we really need to do that or should we cut that from 500,000 to 250,000 or whatever um and then there are resident requests that come in independently
and there's no real way to to deal with them other than to kind of pitch them into the the bin along with other stuff that DPW has to do or other you know other other departments have to do so I I think at least with roads since the
majority of requests that come in have to do with roads um or sidewalks um or bridges or culverts but basically roadways that um I think TPC would be
the logical place for people to bring specific requests to not JCPC get it earlier in the process and have TPC make a recommendation it could either be to JCPC or it could be to the town manager it doesn't really matter as
long as they're involved and they go one way or the other that's okay um so um it depends on when they get when they get the requests and all that so um you know early on requests can go straight to the
town manager or you know the TPC can review a request and make a recommendation to the town manager later on it may have to come to JCPC um it depends you know the timing you know residents don't follow the the
the schedule necessarily so I think we should leave it open for both routes depending on the situation you know on the ground yeah it raises another question Bob and that is that uh right now we have
citizen requests to JCPC around which you point out are frequently around issues that have to do with streets and u should those citizen recommendations no longer go to JCPC first should they
go to TPC First I think they should I think I think J the TPC is a great way to prioritize the requests and you know say this one is this one is really urgent move it up the list uh right now
it's up to I don't even know how I mean Guilford was not very clear about how they even prioritize the work that they do um so uh you know unless I I just think that that this would be a one way to to put a
prioritization on it and take that out of DPW's hands and say you know they need to say DPW you need to put sidewalk or you know you need to put a sidewalk here you need to put you know crosswalks here um you
know you know uh a you know flashing some speed limit sign here i think that would be much better than the current situation which is kind of like a free-for-all george so I I'm agreeing with Bob um he's
saying this would help with prioritization which is a big issue it would help with transparency um and you know giving constituents a sense of agency um and the only question or
thought is then it should go back to the town manager not to the council is where we're headed well anyway that's where I'm headed um not to the council but note that that currently this goes to the council so the current
policy for traffic controls simply says the town council is the the body that deals with this and we're making a at least sounds like we're headed towards a proposal that wants TPC to review it make a
recommendation and that recommendation goes not to the town council but goes to the town manager everybody agree okay um anything else your hand is still up so I don't know if you have anything
else um I'm Is there any need to talk about the no changes proposed section because otherwise should I had one question about um RFBS but I think it's it's it's been answered uh what I'm
hearing and understanding it's maybe my matter of understanding that really falls under traffic controls which we've just been discussing and item 3D is actually only concerns temporary signs
and of course an R RFB would not be a temporary sign so I think I can just remove that unless someone that was a question I had and I think it's been answered by the way most of the crosswalks that go in now have the RF
RF if we have the money they Yeah they go in yeah it's It's really just the There are a lot of crosswalks that don't have them right and it's a question of whether we go signing funds right yeah well that's the scope document that's um
you know and uh I think we can go on um we've got about 30 minutes i know yeah so number three on the list of questions that we started the original list was
TPC is to make recommendations to whom we've um generally talked about that as part of one and two which is uh so we're on to membership and I think that we had two
different takes on membership one is that the original proposal from the town manager U which was uh actually goes back to 24 was uh seven voting members police
chief or designate superintendent of public works or designate planning director or designate member of the commission on disabilities and three residents with interests and backgrounds related to transportation
design safety essentially uh qualifications that got people into the transportation advisory committee um and then the other document that we have in our packet is what Northampton
does and uh Northampton has a little has a larger group and they have two counselors so uh I think that the major issue that kind of comes up and we've
had this discussion in our committee previously is councelor represent councelor membership and I George R i have a strong opinion on it but let me start with George i just just for clarification um
we're looking at a seven member potentially a seven member body um there would be three resident members there would be a member potentially from the disability access commission disability commission there would be somebody representing the
police department somebody from DPW and I'm sorry I just missed the the seventh one planning planning department that was that was the recommendation that came from Paul that uh good started
with yeah because what I have in the packet was my thoughts so this is good this is what it should be um and
uh I guess my questions right right from the start is do any of these people would they be better off as sort of just liaison and not voters and do we want um because I could imagine like if we had a a bicycle committee or commission or
subcommittee should they be voting members of this um so when I think of a disability I think well they should be consulted um and that should be part of what the process of this body should be but should they be voting members why
why would they qualify as voting members and the answer may be obvious and but that's just a question why each of these individuals is there as a voter as opposed to simply you know there as someone to be consulted
um and Yeah and as I look at our friends from Northampton in some ways they aren't really uh dissimilar because they have somebody from public works they have the police
chief uh they have a parking enforcement administrator which is an additional position and we haven't talked about that um because we have uh somebody within uh
I'm not sure who it is currently who's doing the parking work but uh there's somebody in the finance department who oversees parking and hears um parking ticket appeals and
things like that u but parking enforcement is under the police department isn't it yeah the the you know the people who go around and check meters or work for the police department yes but uh if there's
a challenge to a parking ticket it goes there's somebody in the finance department jennifer yeah two things so um I I've been going back and forth you
know myself with because I felt very strongly that there should be council the council should select one or two representatives um I'm feel like I'm willing to let this go since we have certain items that are just
recommendations you know I wouldn't feel comfortable with the council not having a liaison well a voting member an official member of the TPC if final decisions were going to rest with the TPC um but I have but so and again if
the TPC you know wasn't making decisions on parking structures or certain items you know that we we could so that's where I get and I know this is not the conversation we're having today do we explicitly have
to I I would feel more comfortable if we're not going to have council participants and representatives on this body that it be clear that there's certain items that are going to rest remain with the council because I worry when we're no all of us here may not be
part of this body anymore that there not be any ambiguity about what the intention was so there's another item that came up when I was first on the council that we haven't really pursued but I think at some point we should get
back to and so and it and this is in LOL where UMass l the city does not give parking permits to vehicles that aren't registered in l so if we wanted to have a adopt a policy I don't know if it
would be a bylaw it probably wouldn't be a bylaw but that in order to obtain a parking permit in Ammerst your vehicle had to be registered in Ammerst so Ammerst got the excise tax would that be a item that would go to TPC or would
that remain in the council and I guess I'm still not kind of clear could the council delegate that to TPC and clearly I would think that would be that would be a recommendation so what as issues come up and the council
would deci would determine that something should be referred to TPC would the council at that point decide that they want it just to be a recommendation i mean this is what I'm not comfortable with all this being ambiguous but I know we can't anticipate
every item that the council may want to delegate to TPC or that somebody would member of the public might bring to TPC it's sort of an interesting question because uh what you described in LOL is
it a bylaw or ordinance in LOL i don't know and if it is then that stays with the council wouldn't it have to go through the council into a council committee right now the reason that I feel
strongly that we should have council representation on this is getting back to a question that we haven't discussed yet but uh if the uh it's a
recommendation to the council and we don't want to have it referred to a council committee but we want direct action it would seem that you really should have
counselors on the commission so that there are counselors who are involved in the process of making a recommendation to the council for council action otherwise I think it becomes less um
valid to say that it shouldn't go that a council action shouldn't go to a council committee jennifer George I agree with you Andy and that's actually well put that if it's not going to be referred to a council committee
then it makes sense and we could say guess we don't want an even number on the commission two council representatives and then we'd have a nine-member commission yeah if we're going to have counselor uh representation I think we should have
the chair of the finance committee and or their design and the vice president of the council as the two people who are on there because I think we need to have somebody with who's got the town
finances in their head and someone who has the council in their head that that would be my recommendation it could be any any member but I I think those two would be the strongest to put on on a commission like this
council Lord um I I do favor having counselors on this com commission but I also wonder like a few years in is it set in stone if we decide that they don't need to be on like is this like a permanent I think
it should we should um but then also we found out oh they're really not needed the communication is happening and is it are we setting this in stone that it couldn't be changed a few years down the road
I don't think it could be changed down the road what do you think George yeah it could it would go to go and it'd be a process and it would take some time but that's the same is true for you know if we decided to change the policy um so we alter the policy as a council and we can
certainly review the charge we can go back and look at the charge and make changes so that that's certainly possible yeah it's not a bylaw change exactly no it's it's certainly doable there's no no question um I've been the one who's I think of this group the
least eager to put counselors on this body um for a host of reasons all of them are excellent um but um one of them has to do with the fact that we already have a lot of stuff on our plate and now
we're adding something more um and uh but that's you know also concerned that um that it would attract I just you know who would want to do this um and I'm somewhat concerned that it would tend to
you know be something that um only a very small select group would want to really be involved in and I'm not that concerns me so I like Bob's idea of making it uh associating it with um specific committees or positions so the
vice president for instance currently has no real official responsibilities which is fine um speaking personally but this would be a way that you would take it out of the you know cuz you know what it's like when we have to make these
decisions um and so if you just had it that the two council reps would be the vice president of the council um and a represent you know I guess the finance chair or or the designate on the finance
committee and that would you know meet Andy's concern which I think a number of you have sympathy with um and uh it would mean a nine member body i like smaller bodies not larger ones but
um Northampton's doesn't seem to have that problem so I imagine we can survive so we'd now be looking at a nine-member body and we'd be suggesting that the council reps be uh chosen by a specific position or description as opposed to
just you know making a free-for-all i I just really don't look forward to that that kind of situation um uh you know we have so enough first yeah I'm good with that and I'd like Bob's suggestion that the finance
chair or their designate because the finance chair may have a very full plate so I have a full plate good all right should it be vice president or president
and design or Oh I should definitely be vice president I think because the president already has 55,000 things to do no one will want to be president no I I just you know um I I am interested in the fact that Alex Cha is council
president and a member of the commission yeah seems perfectly happy with it well maybe it's because they have a mayor he doesn't have to go to every function right right he there's a fair amount of work that gets taken care of that he's um anyway who knows why maybe he's a
glutton for punishment but um I think for the sake of of both present and future presidents of the council we should if we're going to make this recommendation it should be the vice president i did have a question is the did the in Northampton did the
commission elect the DPW director to be the chair or is that position always the chair we don't know we didn't ask that question and that is a very good question but again in terms of would you allow the
body once it's formed to make up their own minds about how they want to or do we want to dictate to them that you must make the chair X um I be reluctant to do that unless there was a really strong argument about about why it would have
to be the head of DPW um it seems that any one of those people could be fine and it would be a matter of their time and energy because it's really a public as much a public relations job as it is anything else and in communicating with the council and the
chair said it takes a lot of her time yeah i get the sense that Yeah i was Yeah so I don't know if people feel like we should just dictate and say this is what the chair should chair should be X should we leave it up to the body to
decide well yeah and that was uh another one of the issues that I identified in number six how should leadership of the commission be determined and I put that in parents by election of TPC appointment by the town manager
automatically by role in government such as DPW superintendent so this is an issue that I had on the list Bob well I'm I'm I'm kind of torn a little
bit by this um I think the commission would be more effective if they just uh elected their own chair and vice chair because you know there could be one or
two members of the public that that are just perfect as chairing this this body um and um you know you know much better than anyone we could determine ahead of time um on the other hand that having
the the town manager giving him the responsibility or her the responsibility to select the chair you know I could go with that too but I I don't think we should we as a body should say that you know we think the DPW should be the
chair or the the you know the vice vice president of the council should be the chair i think that should be either left to the the town manager or to the the commission themselves and it could rotate it could move around you know right there's no reason that
you have to have one person be the chair of this forever right that seems Yeah and this is the town manager's he appoints this body right and and actually the only real appointments it
sounds like he would be making would be the resident members um if we go if we go with the proposal we're we're thinking of um whether it be I mean the finance chair would would have some choice I guess um
and I guess DPW could designate somebody and so on but um essentially the appointments are made u in consultation with them by the town manager so yeah I like I like the idea of letting them make up their own minds and
u for all the reasons that have been we're giving them a lot of responsibility yeah they should feel right they should feel they should be able to decide that exactly how they want to right i've lost track of our list andy have we covered What are we missing on your list
um we've talked about membership we've talked about the uh question of if TPC makes recommendations to the council is it referred to a council committee um length of terms is that part of the
committee charge reach it would be right length of terms mhm oh typically three years right um given the
natur yeah I think but I think we should we should stagger the the members of the public so that you know we get the first the first the first commission ought to be one year two year and threeear appointment and then every year one one
resident member would change that's what finance does uh we don't do it quite as frequently i think that's a good idea but you know that it it helps to keep the the the churn a little bit
so next time u we definitely need to bring a draft charge or at soon we need to bring it i don't know Andy will that was a plan that uh you and I is uh right chair and vice chair we drafted some drafting for the next uh committee but
that's a good suggestion of of of staggering the terms of the resident members i think that makes sense um leaving the the composition leaving the decision of who's chair and vice chair up to the body that that wouldn't even go in the charge i don't think that's
just wouldn't be there um and we are it sounds like we're agreed on nine member body and that includes a representative from the disability uh commission is that what I'm hearing okay and my question about you know u we
could think of other groups like bicycles or pedestrian whatever I mean they don't you know but fine so nine members three residents um well I mean
three resident members there's no reason why members who are part of you know the safe bike to school couldn't could couldn't put their name in exactly Yeah couldn't be part of the condition right you could make the same argument for
disability but to to the extent that uh we've looked at our neighbor to the west as an example of guides they list a
subcommittee of bicycle and pedestrian subcommittee we didn't ask about that um I mean again just noting they don't have they don't have a disability i'd say they don't have a member from
I'd leave that up to the commission is if they wanted to I'd put in their charge that they could create subcommittees right if they want to uh and leave it up to them i mean there could be other subcommittees i don't know but they wouldn't be vote they
wouldn't be members oh not you know because I'm assuming the way that the but I'd have to ask you to Alex the uh Northampton uh charge is
written sub they have subcommittee bicycle and pedestrian subcommittee but how that's appointed and u what the relationship is to the commission is something that is a
question to be asked so I can I can follow up on that and I Where are we with the chair question and we can leave it leave that up to the committee i I think we leave it to the committee
the committee and not the town manager i I I would I would leave it to the committee i would too there's there you know I think that you know the the
chair you know has certain powers but they don't have all the votes so out of curiosity I will ask uh because I need to contact them anyway ask Alex if the
chair is automatically the director of their DPW department or if that just was the person selected and how was selected because on other town manager appointed
committees he doesn't appoint the chair I don't believe no but each one is unique and this one is definitely unique i don't know in the uh license
commission is he appointing the chair i don't know the answer to that either i want to push back just a little bit more and I apologize it's getting late but um as you see there is no uh voting member or representative on the
Northampton Commission for a disability uh commission or committee whatever and yet u there seems to be consensus here that that we should do that and this is a transportation and parking body um and I guess I'm
wondering you just I'd like it to be clarified to me why we want we think this should be our commission should be different in that regard as opposed to you know it would be understood that this body would consult with the relevant constituencies
um but we're actually putting a member of that particular commission on here as a voting member and I just want to hear why you think that's appropriate it and I'm noting again that Northampton doesn't do that
jennifer um I think you know I know that TAC often refers before they make a decision they confer with the disability access commission which this commission could also do so is this something we'd want to I'd actually want to ask Paul I think
if he thinks that there should be a representative on this commission or if the fact that they're their own commission means that the two bodies could confer so I guess I don't have a strong op I'd
be interested in what Paul's um pos you know thoughts are on this okay I'm going to ask Paul that question um and do remind you that he gave a draft committee charge to us that
started this process uh in 24 and uh it was he listed a member of the commission as being one i forgot you could you could have language that we've seen in other
charges where say you have four community uh four residents instead of three but the charge would say the manager should consider the following uh you know as potential appointees and you could include
pedestrian you could include disability you could you know but it's left ultimately the town manager um also left to the community if people feel strongly that they want to be on this body um then they should step forward we could also suggest that he consider that in
his appointments but I I'm I'm just as it sounds like the others here also but struggling with why they should be given a permanent voting position and also now the point Jesus made of course they have their own commission as it is so now they'd be on two commissions um and so
I'd like to hear what Paul thinks and I'd like us to think some more about the logic of this okay trying to get that to make a list of questions to ask bob yeah i just wanted to say uh whatever we do we need to keep the
number odd right we don't have have a tied vote well that's why I'm suggesting four residents in other words you could make it for residents and with some suggestions to the manager but we'll see we'll see what Paul says and we all think about it some more but yeah someone on the disability access
commission I mean there might not be someone who wants to be on two commissions right in terms of time commitment time commitment etc i I think Yeah yeah and there are going to be a lot of issues that they care about and there'll be a lot of issues that they won't they
don't care about right right um the last Oh I was going to just uh throw out one thing just as I because I observed it when I was looking as I was sitting here uh during our meeting at
the Northampton charge um and I'll follow up on this question when I talk to Alex uh the uh they list him as city councelor ward five as opposed to
president of the council so it you know how they does the council choose those two members themselves that's the question that I pose to him out of curiosity and
let you know what he has to say but we have to do with what what is right for us and right now we have a plan um the one issue that we haven't talked about I think of that list of seven issues I
identified is uh should there be a mechanism for members of the public to submit requests on transportation and parking matters to TPC if so do we have a recommendation for a procedure bob I think we should follow the the
procedure that we have for capital requests in that there's a form that people fill out um you know available on the website and it's submitted i I think that that works very well and if you know we we need to educate the residents
if this comes into being um that uh you know this is where they would send issues related to roads and and crosswalks and things like that um and if it comes to JCPC we should JCPC
should forward that on uh to the TPC so but I think I think the process should be um that you know there ought to be a way for people to submit a request um you know through uh you know through
the the town website or you know in person or whatever uh for people who don't use internet and who are we going to charge with the responsibility to process those forms
who does it for JCPC is it uh Holly or is it I don't know they come through Oh sorry go ahead go ahead Athena they come through a form center online and then uh Jen
Lefountain generates them into the individual documents um and then Melissa also works with them to create a list so it takes lots of hands because Northampton has a
form that you fill out online too and my assumption is that it goes to Donald Escalia now but I don't know that for sure and who are we suggesting would be the staff
liaison or are we going to be planning i mean I yeah you where is there extra human power for this but this would require a staff I assume some kind of staff assistance i
think the town manager should answer that question designate okay so we need to ask about that as well so right now the finance director has a role in
receiving citizen uh resident request because it's a JCPC issue oh for JCPC not for JCPC i mean is it something to commute you muted yourself so we couldn't hear your question oh I'm sorry would it make
sense to go through the communications you know through Samantha that's another person who would be involved in something that I mean for the JCPC requests it's that's a finance department issue so right but the transportation commission isn't so much
that many hands be for light work that's not true i know except in town government yeah so I think that where we're at uh since we are uh 12:00 and there has been
nobody else who's come from the public so public comment will just note that there was none uh but uh I think that where we are is we need to move
a that I need to work with George and uh follow up with all of the questions and start the process of uh developing a revised proposed committee charge and uh amendments to the uh
policy and the uh traffic uh whatever it's called policy so I think we pretty much know what's going on um we do need to consider next meetings
um and what are um issues we need to get on to next meetings and one that I'm was reminded of uh by Paul was Heather Stone that there was an understanding that and we had talked about it
previously that we would schedule something uh possibly in May which would be a uh opportunity for people who have strong feelings about that to come back and revisit the issue and
be able to make so that we can recommend whether to continue the current configuration of the street um Jennifer your thoughts
uh no i wanted to um another item that I would appreciate an update on at the next meeting is where we are with the waist hauler RFP if the consultants been retrained when they we expect them to
come on board i heard something about that we were waiting till the next fiscal year but the finance committee and then the council approved $75,000 in free cash for this year so the next fiscal year budget shouldn't
really have any they're two different one shouldn't be affected by the other in keeping us from moving forward on that it's my understanding that uh he's had trouble finding somebody um with the appropriate expertise to help
develop the plan though he did have someone in mind now but if Paul's at the next meeting maybe we can just I'm sorry if Paul's at the next meeting perhaps we could ask him to provide an update
[Music] i'll ask him about his schedule and if he's going to be able to uh he's taking off as you know a number of Thursdays for personal reasons yeah yeah or or maybe he can just give you a
response that you can communicate to us uh yeah I was just thinking in terms of uh going back to how do how should members of the public submit requests um maybe that's a question we should ask
Paul because I think he he may have different ideas than I have um and you know I don't want to get people involved who don't necessarily need to be involved so well we were going to report to him on
today's meeting and what all we came up with with ideas and uh ask for his input at the next meeting so anything that we talked about today if he has comments about it he's going
to provide them for us council Ryan So looking ahead to next meeting we're going to report back um on what Paul if whether he's there or not we'll report
back on what Paul's input is on all these matters um we'd like to think we could present a draft charge and a a revised uh public ways policy document um Heatherstone Road I just I don't
think it's going to be on the agenda but you're just raising it sort of saying well maybe in May at some point we'll have we'll think about having some kind of public session or meeting but it does seem like what we're headed for next time is pretty much focused on
uh TPC again i think largely uh yes we will let in the waist taller update that should be I think based on what I've heard it will be fairly brief but we we
need an update we need to know what what the the plan is or isn't um but um okay is there anything else that we're missing or that people think we should [Music]
um that's what I'm hearing and it sounds like you and I might want to sit down with Paul face to face if we can and and go through this with him but again it's a question of scheduling so we'll see but can you think of any other issues that we should
be listing for next meetings i I would have to go back and check my notes for TSO i have too many windows open to do that right now um but I can check in with you before the next meeting okay i think there may have been a referral that I can't think of right
now there was one referral and uh that was the u oh public urination oh thank you i have to I
think I have to go back and check i don't recall right that sounds like something G could hand no I think that I I do think that that may have been it was referred to us in the referred to us so rats we need to
uh schedule a time with the probably the police chief or whoever he would recommend and uh councelor Hanicki who is the sponsor and there may be some appointments i
don't know we don't know about that but Paul may That's always on the list exactly right okay no I don't think we have anything else does anybody else have an issue they'd like to raise
seeing none then I guess there's another motion that would be appropriate i move to adjourn second okay motion has been made and seconded uh Council Lord I council Bob Hegner i
jennifer Tab yes council Ryan hi well I'll go I also because uh it's best anyway anyway thank you thank you good meeting thanks thank you all bye