So the recording started. >> Okay. >> So if you go to ammerismma.gov >> on the homepage, if you scroll down, there's a calendar. >> If you click today's date, it should lead you to the meetings of today. You can click our meeting and the agenda
will be in there. It's in the email um that I'd sent earlier, too. But if you need to get it live, it's on the website. Okay. So, we are recording. So, good morning everybody. I'm Brianna Sunundred, chair of the cable television
advisory committee. Um, it is 11:36 on Friday, March 27th, and we're calling the meeting of the cable television advisory committee to order. Um, we're holding this meeting in the town room of town hall in Ammerst and
remotely via Zoom in a hybrid format. Um and this meeting is being recorded. So before we begin, I would like to introduce the members present in the room, we have
Peter Bareric and Rachel Figura Smith, Sean Hannon, myself, and joining us remotely, we have John Meis, Frederick Civian, and that's it. Yeah, we should just make sure they can hear us and we can hear
them. >> Okay. Can everybody in the room hear us remotely? >> I can hear you guys. Yes. >> Y can hear you too. >> Okay, >> great. And we have um Okay, I'm looking
at the virtual room just as I get oriented here. We don't have any attendees joining remotely at this time. All right, so bear with me just a second. And I'm trying to move through my screens here. Um, today on our agenda, um, our second order of business
is the introduction of the town attorney um, to the committee members. And I know we have, uh, Nicole Costanzo here remotely joining the committee meeting. So perhaps we could have Nicole introduce herself to the group if
possible. >> Good afternoon through the chair, Nicole Castanzo with KP Law. Nice to see everyone. And if the committee members wouldn't mind just taking a moment to um even though we met at our last meeting, just introducing yourselves to Nicole, please.
>> I'll start. My name is Brianna Sunret. I'm the chair of the cable television advisory committee and a amorous community member. >> Peter, you have to use your I know it's counterintuitive, but we're gonna we'll get used to it. might just
>> Oh, okay. >> Hold that, please. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> I'm still Peter Bareric and a member of the committee. >> Yep. I'm Rachel Picker Smith. I am a member of the committee. I'm also the executive director of Emerse Media.
>> Paul Vman, town manager. >> I'm Sean Hannon. I'm the IT director for the town and also a member of the committee, a non- voting member of the committee. I'm Fred Civian, member of the committee. Uh, and I wish I were there in person, but you don't want to get
what I got. >> I'm John Milas, member of the committee and student at Ammerst College. >> Great. Okay. So that u leads us to I guess our second our third agenda item which is reviewing the status of the
contract major areas to discuss role of ascertainment. Um Paul do you have a suggestion? Do we want to can we hear from Nicole to give a update and an overview? >> Nicole if you could just sort of summarize where we are and what's what you think the next steps are for the committee things like that. Nicole spent
a lot of time on this already so be helpful. >> Great. of course through the chair. So, um I think it would be helpful just to understand what you have right now in your existing contract. The existing contract with Comcast was negotiated
um through a term of 2016. It expires October 15 of this year. Um under that license agreement, the town did have inet services. I understand that the town has built out its fiber network and is no longer using the Inet. Um you were
also receiving cable drops the outlet the monthly basic service. You were getting a PEG grant of um over a million over the term of 10 years along with the 5% G for the operational grant and the
50 cents per subanual license fee that the town was getting. My understanding is that amounts to about a $ five dollar pass through to subscribers, which cable companies are able to do. And just to understand what's going on right now in the current climate with cable
throughout the Commonwealth and really, you know, throughout the country, um, is cable subscriptions are significantly declining as, you know, these, um, other avenues, internet streaming services become available. So, just to put this
in perspective a bit for the members, in 2018, Comcast had over 6,000 subscribers. And as of around um the last reporting that they did in uh October of uh 2024, my understanding is
that that had declined to 2,641. So, the trend is um downward subscriptions. And so I think in terms of trying to forecast what you're looking for um in terms of financial
figures and remembering that there's going to be a pass through to your subscribers obviously the less subscribers um less that they're sharing which means you know the higher pass through amount per sub per subscriber that you have. And again, my understanding is that it's around um
just for your your capital and with the um the operational grant, it's about $4.71 and then we when we add that 50 uh cents um license fee that it goes up to about $5, right?
Um you're getting three peg channels. you had had an offer, a side letter they're called, um, under your your license to have an HD channel if it became available. Um, your contract has insurance and a performance bond
provision. Also, liquidated damages, which a lot of the cable companies have been moving away from recently in negotiations the last couple of years. Uh, you have an indemnification provision as well to protect the town. Um, you did have a local customer
service office and I I spoke with Paul about that and understands, you know, that the um that that's kind of not really been used. Um, Comcast is looking to to move away from that and to get rid of that local customer service office in
this round of negotiations. your service area, meaning you know what homes will be eligible for Comcast subscriptions. It's 175 feet um from the system. That's they're proposing to keep that the same. If there's an extension, the density
requirement is 15 homes per aerial mile or within 25 ft of the the setback. All of that um the company is proposing to keep the same. You have an existing enforcement provision with notice and a hearing requirement. Again, they're they're they're suggesting that they
would keep that the same. Um, for the most part, what we're looking at for differences under your contract for liquidated damages, they're they're looking to try and cap that a little bit, um, with 125 120 days per violation, which in my opinion is is
pretty reasonable given that they're, uh, really moving away from liquidated damages in other in other negotiations with other municipalities, and it's not something that they're required to give you, and we'll talk about what you can get and what you can't get. Um but just
in terms of you know the deviation from the uh current license with the model that's being proposed to you folks now as I mentioned the Inet is gone and you have the fiber network. Um they're looking to move away from HD and I don't know if that's something that the town
is interested in so just let me know if it is. Uh really here the the big thing that we're going to be negotiating is the the financial provisions. everything else. For the most part, they've agreed to continue, which again for for Comcast
is um pretty unique just given the fact that they are losing money from uh the downward trend with with subscriptions, but they've agreed to keep the license to the to the extent that they can um the same for the most part. And I I have
sent over a draft of that license. I don't know if members have had a chance to see it yet, but I sent it over recently uh to Paul. So really, we're talking about, unless you have any big concerns, the capital grants. And I think another thing to keep in mind,
too, one of the changes that had come up from when you had your existing license to where we are now at now is we have something called this FCC third order. And I did provide um just a a little memo on that for the members to
understand. So under state law um chapter 166A, the companies are cable companies are required to give communities um free free peg channels, right? However, this to some extent and to some argument that the cable
companies have conflicts with the FCC third order which says moving forward any uh inind treatments in new agreements can be deducted and count towards that 5% um G that that you're getting meaning
they can they can claw back some of that that money and count it towards it. The inind contributions under the FCC order include for instance free basic uh service drops at public buildings. The cost of providing peg access facilities
um excluding capital that doesn't count uh towards the contribution. It does include construction service maintenance of the Inet provision which you folks have moved away from. So that's good. Um but it also includes the costs of
transporting the lines from the the studios and hub upstream to the company's head end. So there there is you know there has been some litigation on the FCC third order but not in Massachusetts. So it's not really clear how that's going to play um in
consideration of you know 166A. So, the license proposal is is being amended to include reference to the FCC order, but also reference to um the the statutory provisions in order to protect the town as best we can. Essentially, the the
case law is just going to have to play out on this. But the good news is um in the event that the uh companies do charge or start charging um for the service drops and wants to deduct that
from the 5% G the municipalities and and in your contract we've put in language here as as the proposal the town can say you know we actually don't want that that service you know maybe at the the fire department or at the police station
and so you have the option of removing that service and not being charged for it. But again, that's something that's going to continue to play out. There is some legislation pending. It has been pending for some time to address the this FCC third order, but it's really
just sat with the with the legislators and there hasn't been any movement there. So again, something that we are watching, but that you should be aware of when we're talking about, you know, ascertainment and what you're looking at financially um for purposes of of proposals in this license renewal
negotiation. Okay. So, things that you um can't get in your license, and again, I've provided a a memo uh for you folks to to look at, but um you can't get specific
programming. We hear this all the time. For instance, you know, I want a golf channel or I want um a specific news station because I'm getting the the news for Connecticut or Vermont. Those are things that we just don't have control
over in these negotiations. So, with respect to programming, you can ask for general C categories. So, you want a sports category or um you know a news category and we have that in the license proposal that's been sent over and and
that's going to remain the same, but you just can't ask for the specific channels. um that's driven by programming decisions and the the cable companies have the discretion to make those determinations. The other thing as I mentioned too is
you know to the extent that folks are complaining if they're closer to um borders for certain states Connecticut or Vermont and so they're getting um you know maybe the their sports channel they're getting Yankee games instead of Red Sox games. That's really not
something that we can control. we can ask the companies if that's been an issue and folks are complaining um to offer over the air air signals from you know from another city but they're not required to do that and I don't know if that's been an issue for you folks in
Ammeris so again something to consider rate reductions are another thing um that's not not something that we can we can uh make them change that's set under federal regulation ations. So that's standard. Same with technical
obligations. We can't require them to do anything more than what's required by the cable act. Um what we can get are senior senior citizen discounts. It looks like you folks hadn't had that before. Um some of
the cable companies used to offer that through a side letter. I don't see that anywhere from you that that you folks had that. And really a lot of the cable companies have been moving away from that. So that is something that we can ask for if you know the town is is
interested and and there is a large um demand for that. Can't guarantee that we can get it but we could certainly ask for it if it is a concern. Um as I mentioned before the cash funding for grants to support the PEG programming uh
construction or upgrading of PEG lines. Again my understanding is that you folks just built out the network. So, I don't know if you have a lot of of those costs that you're looking at. Um, the other thing is the the HD channels if that's something that you want. And we talked already about um the local customer
service uh office and again Comcast is is agreeing to the liquidated damages, the public hearings um and language to ensure that they have the performance bond insurance and also that uh we can enforce the the contract in the event
that there is any issues. So that's just your basic overview right of what you can get during negotiations. Um, if there aren't any questions, I can move on to the the process. >> Can I ask >> Can I ask a question? Peter Veric
talking. >> From everything that I've read and from what you said, Comcast seems to be a lot less interested in the cable business than it used to be. Uh, and does the town have any guarantee that if we have
a contract with Comcast, uh, it will stay in the cable TV business for 10 years, or or would they have the right to simply decide that that's not profitable to them and and they would drop it? >> Yeah. I mean, the the contract allows
for unilateral termination. So, they they do have the right to drop services if they want to. seems unlikely that they're they're going to because the lines are already up and built. Again, the problem is just that the um subscribers are are declining. And so
that really just seems to be the trend. And what's happening now is um you know, they're they're negotiating they're they're negotiating stance during these license renewals has really gotten a lot harder because they're losing money due
to the loss of subscribers. And so that's really where we're seeing the big issue with them. Not that they're going to to stop, you know, providing cable services really, but just what they can provide the towns given, you know, the
the decreased demand and the low subscription rate. >> Can I ask another doomsday kind of question? Uh what would happen if we didn't agree to continue the contract with them?
So, so like liquor licenses, they have a presump presumptive right of renewal. So, we would really have to find a good faith basis not to renew. And in my opinion, simply saying that there's declining subscriptions, you know,
wouldn't be satisfactory. >> I'm sorry. I I I I don't hear well and I couldn't hear the last part of your answer. Oh. So, so what I'm saying is they have a presumptive right to renewal. And so what that means is in order to decline
and not give them a renewal license, the town would have to come up with a justifiable reason. And in my opinion, simply saying, "Well, we're losing subscribers," wouldn't do the trick. would would complaining about the quality of customer service they've
offered and the fact that they had not kept their pledge to maintain an office in Ammerst be considered a ground for non-renewal. Um I don't know if it would necessarily be considered a ground for non-renewal. I think it depends on the extent of the
the complaints that we're receiving and my understanding is that they do still maintain in office and is it called the UPS store or >> I don't know what the current status is but I think what they've the way they've met that need is to say you can drop off
any equipment at the UPS store. >> Yeah. Um, >> I have other questions. >> Yeah. >> Um, my understanding is equipment can be dropped off at the UPS store, but you
have to go to Holio to pick anything up. So, I do think there's some conversation to be had there about access because that does seem limiting and like an issue that'll come up. Um, I would doubt I'm not at all an expert
in this as you are Nicole, but um I would doubt that that would be grounds for non-renewal, but that does seem like a conversation point, I would imagine. Um, Nicole, I'm wondering if you I've been following the this PEG FCC legislation probably more closely than
others in the room because of my position and um still don't entirely understand it. So, I'm wondering if you can go back a little bit and slow that down. And particularly, I'm wondering um as we're thinking about
this contract being a 10 over a 10-year period, um if this legislation does proceed in the state of Massachusetts, what would the impact be if if that were to go through say at year five, then what happens?
>> Yeah. So, I mean, the FCC third order exists. what would um a and the legislation that's that's pending, it's not clear, you know, if it would be retroactive or prospective. And so really that's going to depend on the
legislation and how actually the the law, if it at all, you know, is is passed is worded. And so I I can't really speak to that because that's all subject to change and it it's really been sitting for about 20 years, right?
Um there's also some bills pending that would you know um require the same licensing for internet services as you have for for cable which you know might might bring in more more funds because as I said you know the it's the internet subscriptions that are rising and the
cables that are declining but that's been sitting and there's been movement with respect to the FCC third order that already exists and um there has been some case law that's developed and what they've essentially said is their interpretation is that these inind
contributions can be deducted if you reach that 5% gross annual revenue contribution. And um in other municipalities, Comcast is not offering 5%. Some they're offering three, some they're offering
two. It's all over the board. Um your existing contract has the 5% and they're agreeing to match that 5%, but they can just deduct from that. Now, they haven't actually, as far as we're aware, begun issuing any deductions, and there would
be a whole process in place. Um, they'd have to send you notice of it. They'd have to send you the bill to show what's being deducted. And like I said, there would be an opportunity. One of the the one of the things that they could possibly deduct from is those um cable
drops that that are being provided to, you know, various municipal buildings. Um if that's the case, they send you notice and you have an option to say we don't want those services, right? And so um there is there is some there is some
protection there and there is a process built into the FCC third order. The issue becomes in Massachusetts is you have this other statute, right, that says that the company is required to provide free services to municipal uh school public schools and municipal
buildings. And so really, you know, unless there's some case law that plays out or the companies start deducting for these charges which will lead to case law, we we can't predict with any certainty how that will play out. Um, if
there is, you know, uh, if you sign another contract at the the 10-year maximum term, which is what's being proposed here, and you have that language in, and you have a superseding order from the court saying they can't deduct for them those services, in my opinion, it's going to apply to your
contract. And then again, Rachel, just to clarify your question about changes in the law, that's going to depend about whether th those changes are perspective or retroactive. And again, that's going to be based on the legislation itself, which, you know, we we don't know what
that's going to look like if it if it even comes to fruition. >> I I also just caught one thing you said, Nicole, that they're proposing a 10-year contract. Is it I I think I might have asked this last time and we weren't clear. Is it possible for us to come back and say we want to do a shorter
contract? Is there benefit to doing that? So, you can the the maximum term is 10 years for renewals, 15 years for the initial license. Um Verizon does fiveyear contracts and that's all
they'll do. Most um communities do want the 10-year subscription because or excuse me, the 10-year license term because subscriptions are declining. So it it seems like every renewal is going to be harder and harder and and you're
you may be you know um more likely to get more now than you know in a couple of years from now if the subscribers decline even even more. Uh it really is going to be a business and policy decision for the town. The other thing
too is these negotiations do uh take quite a while. Um, you folks are in a good position because like I said, your license doesn't expire until October of 2026. But I can tell you that we are in negotiations for other municipalities
where the license has expired four years ago and we're still in negotiations because of turnover, you know, with the cable companies, um, you know, turnovers with municipal boards and then also just
disputes with with licensing. Um, some of the other cable companies have taken really hard stances and even Comcast has taken hard stances with other municipalities. I've already had discussions with the
representative from Comcast and like I said, they are agreeing to keep a majority of the license terms for your contract the same. They haven't agreed to that in other communities. So, negotiations have been really difficult.
Um, and they've been ongoing for, you know, in one that I I was dealing with yesterday, two years back and forth, um, between turnovers with the boards and and every time, you know, a new person gets on the board, changing whether they want something new or or, you know, not
agreeing to something that had previously been agreed to. And then the same with um, Comcast. Comcast recently had a restructuring and so folks that we were engaged in represent uh negotiations with that had represented that you know they would be amendable to
certain provisions with that turnover we had to start all over again with a lot of them. So you know having a contract for 10 years where you don't have to keep coming back to this does have its benefits especially where you know the the subscribers are declining as well.
Um, thank you. That's really helpful. It sounds like it is beneficial to be working on a 10-year contract if if we are all in agreement about that. Last question I have, at least for right now. Um, a big portion of the contract 10 years ago.
Um, a big part of the negotiation was around the capital costs that that were involved. Um, have you had any conversation around appetite for capital cost? What they're thinking about that? What Yeah. Where
where you think that might be headed? >> Yeah. So, that's um going to be the next step that we discuss the process, right? Because really right now I've negotiated most of those other terms subject to, you know, what I what I've said from you folks and what additional you're you're looking for. Um I think the next step
for you is to engage in your ascertainment process and there there's no real rule as to how you go about that. Um but what you essentially want to understand for your ascertainment process is you know what are your future cable related needs and you know has the
cable operator been operating in compliance with their existing license. And so, um, that will help you engage in in getting the the financial figures to allow for those discussions moving forward. Um, to date, my discussions
with Comcast really have only been, you know, they're they're just very adamant on the fact that they are losing subscribers and losing money. And so, you know, suggesting that the the capital that you received in in the last license might not be what you're getting
here depending on what your ascertainment looks like. They're also starting to move away from um these lumpsum payments. And they're trying to link the capital to a per subscription payment, meaning, you know, they're
tying say for instance 95 cents per subscriber, which obviously means that what you get each year won't be the same. Um, there's certain ways to to go around negotiating all of that, but you know, that's going to depend on what your future cable related costs are
going to be. And so, as a next step, what I recommend is looking to see what that is and to to see if uh Comcast has actually been meeting its expectations under the existing license. And there's a couple of ways that you can do that.
um you can prepare a survey of residents just to um gauge whether they're happy with the services. Also to see what they'd be willing to pay, right? Because again, remember that what you're getting from them can ultimately and very likely
is going to be passed through to the subscribers. So that's going to increase their their monthly bill each year. So, you might want to put out a survey to see again, you know, if they're happy, what the customer service wait time looks like when folks are calling, um,
you know, and what they're willing to pay moving forward. The other thing that you're going to want to likely do is put together a business plan to see what your future uh, cable costs are going to be. And so, um, in doing that, you're
going to want to consider a few things. you know, your your your proposed budget, your programs, um trainings, studio operations, and the cost of that, any new equipment that you need, um replacement equipment over a time, and
again, we're looking at this 10-year period. Um upgrading, you know, your your system. Um so, all of that, I think, is going to be something that you need to take into consideration. I don't know if the reason and I suspect that the reason that the PEG grant was so
high was because you were building out your network and you know that's already been done. Um I don't I haven't had a chance to see what your and I don't know um Paul if you folks still even have this you know what your ascertainment figures looked like when you were
negotiating this for the 2016 renewal. Um but you might also want to look at that too just to see how it changed and whether again um a significant amount of that was due just to building out the fiber network as well. But that's going
to be your your next step now in the ascertainment. And once we get those figures and we have those discussions, we can go back to Comcast and say this is the number that the town needs. And then what we'll do is work with them to either get them to agree to the lumpsum
payments or to make it so that we can figure out if they're if they're only going to agree to a per sub formula what that's going to look like. Paul. >> Yeah. So, we do have that. We can share
that out with everybody. And um the sort of the where where you've gotten so far, I can share that out with folks as well once we get through this conversation. >> Is that the memo that Nicole was referring to? Questions? >> Yeah. Can can I ask a question about
Comcast internet service? Has that been declining or is that prospering? So, we don't have those numbers, but I'd imagine that they're just increasing again with the the trends that, you know, um cable subscriptions are declining because broadcasting the these
streaming services are increasing and that's through internet >> and we have >> but I I I will make clear that the license negotiations are for cable. We don't have the ability to engage in negotiations for internet services. And so that's one of the things that's
pending with the with the legislature, but really for purposes of your cable license negotiations, you know, that doesn't necessarily come into play. >> Do I understand you correctly to be saying that the legislature might be doing something that would give the town
some voice in internet service as well as cable service? >> So there's bills pending, but they've been pending for, you know, over 10, 15 years now. So, I don't know if they're really going to take any action or do anything. Um, but there there there is
some some small lobbying groups, you know, um, trying to advocate for that. I have a clarification too for from our last meeting. This came up and we were wondering if that were the case, if these bills that were pending for the last 15 years, something did come to
fruition. Would that be handled in a separate process or would we need would we be able to reopen quote unquote I don't know the legal term the the the contract that we're working on now or how would that play out?
>> Yeah. Again, unfortunately, my answer is going to be similar to what I said to to Rachel earlier. You know, unless we have the language um that's passed, we don't really know how that will play out. Um I'd imagine it would be a separate
process and and and maybe there would be an opportunity to engage in in renegotiations and merge the two, but really, you know, um it's almost like the lottery. I don't know what the numbers are going to be. I I don't know what's going to pass. And as I said,
this has been pending for quite some time, and I haven't um at least as I'm aware, there there hasn't been a big push um more recently than there has been in the past. It's really just been sitting. It kind of just keeps getting refiled, but there doesn't seem to be a
large um push or really an appetite in my opinion um for any movement on this, at least at this point. I do see uh one of our members who's joining remotely, Fred has his hand up. Fred, did you have a question?
>> Yeah, I do. Um what I was intrigued with the uh information from the public that could be used to help with the negotiations and I'm wondering if you have suggestions for specific information that we could glean from the public that would help with the our
determination about compliance with the current contract. Um, for example, of asking the public specifically where they picked up their equipment, if they picked up their equipment, where they did. I wonder if there other um if there's other specific data that
if we could gather from the public that would help in the negotiations. >> Yeah. So, I have provided in the materials that I sent over some sample surveys with specific language. So, you know, um questions about reading the
service, how often do you watch certain services, um you know, when you call customer service, how long are you waiting for them? Um are your questions answered promptly by the the cable operator, all of those are in the um
sample surveys that we provided, >> right? Um, I I read through those and all what I was um I'm asking about if there's any more specific information to be gleaned from the public that would would help. It's one thing to ask people
if they feel like they've been served well. I don't know how that helps in the negotiation. um asking how many times they've had to repeat um call back for service may be a useful date uh um useful specific data.
So um I'm a little hesitant with the the sample surveys. The questions to me seem general more general and so I'm looking for more specifics. Yeah, I mean you can certainly come up with more specific questions and we can
help you with that if that's the some if that's something um that you'd like. There really is no wrong or right answer. This isn't required by law. You don't have to send out these surveys. They're really optional. So, it's really up to the town and its discretion. And a
lot of the time the surveys um will vary from community to community depending on what your big concerns are. also depending just on you know the the demographics in each municipality. So this can be modified. You can create your own survey. We can we can work with
you on on that. Um for instance you know I have one municipality that that says everyone's calling town hall complaining because you know we had it when they were going to reach customer service they were on hold for an hour. Uh and so we were aware of those questions. So, if
if that's something that's a concern, you know, we can tailor your survey. If you're if you're planning on doing a survey, um to have more specific questions, more technical questions, we can certainly work with you. Or if you want to do it on your own and and just look to see what other municipalities
have done, you can do that, too. It it really can be developed and tailored further if you'd like. >> That's great. Thanks. What I'm trying to do is to get as much as much as possible the questions in the survey linked directly to the requirements of the of the contract to help with the
negotiations. That's my interest. >> Thanks. >> Peter, you had a question. >> Who pays for the costs of the survey? Uh when I looked at the sample surveys from other towns, it looked as though in some cases surveys have gone out with Comcast
bills but without a very good rate of return. Uh I I am assuming that if you send out surveys by mail, there's a cost attached with that. There presumably is also a cost attached to analyzing the data that comes in to the survey. Is
that something that Comcast pays for or that the town pays for? Typically the the town in certain cases we can work with them through negotiations to see if it's something that they'd be willing to to put in with the bills and send out, but generally
the the um surveys are done through the town. Some municipalities have done um sent them out through emails, posted it on their on their website. Um you know, mentioned it at you know, if if there's a annual or special town meeting when
the announcements are going at or at various, you know, select board or or other uh public body meetings, mentioned it at announcements to let the public know uh that this information was available. So, there's a number of ways that you can do it. You can mail it out,
but that's not the only way. We let's see can the cable we asked the cable company to give us a randomly selected sub set of the subscribers their email addresses contact information.
I'm thinking of conducting a survey that has some uh that can be generalizable. >> Yeah, it's unlikely that they would pass that on because of of privacy concerns. >> Okay. I also just imagine any way that we
involve the cable company in design or distribution of surveys would mean they have some ownership of those surveys. And so quest like the pointed questions that I think I'm hearing Frederick refer to I I think would need to be held
by the town. One one thing that seems to be important is that any survey we do not just be limited to cable subscribers but include internet subscribers or perhaps a random sample of because one of the important
questions is why are you not subscribing to cable and why did you stop it if you stopped it and we won't get that as the the presumably more satisfied customers who
have continued with the table. >> Yep. >> So, last time we did this, the town did not conducted its own survey. Comcast did. Um, and the results of that are on our website under ammersemma.govcable and it's community ascertainment survey.
But that that again to Rachel's point was a survey paid for by Comcast. So it was tailored tailored towards what they wanted to ask. >> Yeah. If I if I'm remembering from our last
meeting, there seemed to be, you know, some appetite and I think we will maybe have it as a specific agenda item to discuss, but it seemed like some of the members were moving in the direction that we would have um the town would have their own survey. Um, if that's the
case, Paul, and that's not a budgeted item, are there channels, existing channels, I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but for the sake of everybody else, are there channels that that could be distributed without an additional cost to the town as far as you know?
>> Um, yeah. So, I don't know if there obviously there's no dedicated funds. We'd have to look at what's available and we also look at the means for distribution. If we're looking at actual mailing things to people on paper, that's a different animal. Um, but I think that uh the Comcast has the
ability to do their own survey and I think that's what may have been online. It might be not have been the town survey. We can do our survey, but they also have the right to do their own survey to say we've surveyed all of our customers. This is what we found if they wanted do have a counter argument to
whatever we found. Other other questions uh for Nicole on anything that's been covered so far? Should make sure our remote members have a chance? I don't see any hands. >> Good. Thanks.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So Nicole, next steps for us is to look at ascertainment, how what what we need to do to sort of develop our positions, look at the material that you've um forwarded to us in terms and I I will share out um it seems odd that
we're having a public meeting to talk about our negotiating strategy with Comcast because they're going to watch this and understand exactly what we care about. Um so I don't know how we handle that. Um but then um you know uh this committee is advisory to the town
manager. So there's some sort of you know privilege I guess with that. But um I think for us it's really about the ascertainment. What do we need? What what does our community feel that it needs? What does Ammeris Media feel it needs? So we have our list of things that we're going to be ask for. Is that
accurate? >> It is. And there's also um a requirement to do at least one public hearing during the ascertainment phase and Comcast um their representative Steven Fitzgibbons has agreed to the extent that the town would like to uh participate and and
also to to come out in advance for any meetings in addition to the public hearing to the extent that you have any questions either in person or more preferably for him via Zoom if if you would be amenable but also offered to come in person as well if there's any
questions or if you'd like to have uh discussions with him as well. >> So, so what is the timing of that's a really good question like when would what would be the right time to engage with Comcast with this committee directly? Is that sooner or is it do we
do the ascertainment and then we know what we're thinking about and then talk to them or talk to them in advance? >> Yeah. Again, I mean there's no wrong or or right way. your existing license expires in October. So, you do have some time. Um in my in in my opinion, it
might be more prudent to at least have some initial um figures from the ascertainment process and to understand, you know, exactly what concerns, if any, residents are are raising about the services and your needs to facilitate a
more um productive conversation with Comcast. >> Hello. >> Good. Um just as you're saying negotiations and uh what you were what you were just explaining Paul um where
and when does executive committee executive session play in as we're talking about negotiating these contracts? I don't know who can answer that best. >> Sure. So, in in my opinion, there isn't
an executive session purpose that would allow you to um engage in in negotiations in in a closed door session. However, what we can do is you can designate um a member um or you can designate, you know, authority to to
Paul to engage in in some of those negotiations. But uh you do have to have a public hearing to um to go over you know your ascertainment fees and to to review the um to review the license negotiation and and proposed contracts.
It it's just you know there are certain um negotiations that just can't be done in executive session under the open meeting law and this is one of them. Nicole, I just had a followup. When you mentioned that we have a required public hearing, one required public hearing
during the ascertainment phase. Is that for the town to host that or I it was okay. And Comcast may or may not participate in that. >> Yeah. So, they generally do participate in the public hearing. They're, you know, they're not required to, but they
generally do. um what their representative has offered as well is to come to to meetings in advance uh if if you have any questions in advance of the public hearing. My understanding is last year or last round of negotiation the the town had held two public hearings.
Uh the requirement is just for one, but you can hold as many as you'd like. >> Thank you. Uh c given the peculiar nature of the town of Ammerst, it seems to me it would be highly desirable to hold public
hearings during the academic year rather than during the summer. And the timeline we seem to be on doesn't match up so tightly with that if you want to finish things by October. Uh I guess what I'm
saying is that it seems to be this seem puts a lot of pressure on us to do the the survey part of the asset and the public theory the next month and and I don't know whether that's possible and if not then
perhaps to put some of it off until early in the fall. >> Yeah. Um I understand. So I think that's less if we do it on Zoom uh I think there's um less a concern about people being physically away. People can engage
wherever they are. What we found with Zoom is that people are engaged, you know, even if they're on vacation or away. It's it's not like they physically have to be in the room when we do the public hearing. Um but I think it's always better to do it during the academic year. um and if we can, but um
you know um I don't think we should be hamstrung by that because I don't think we're going to have I don't think we're going to be able to wait till September to have a public hearing on it. Paul, do you think that people do you think people will be interested enough in a public hearing to both find
out about it and come in by Zoom or when they're not physically in hours? I I'm I don't know that I would and I feel really concerned. >> I think we can we can have this done conversation. I think we should focus on our attorney. If there are any questions
for the attorney that we should finish up on, we can let her go. Right. Anything else for Nicole? >> Nicole, anything else for us other than what you've covered? Are we good shape?
>> I I think Yeah, I I think the members have great questions and um again, given the the time frame, you know, I think that you're in a good position uh right now. And if you have any further questions, I'm I'm happy to answer them. Jump on another meeting and coordinate
as well with, you know, um, Comcast's representative to attend if there's any further questions or if you need help putting together, you know, surveys. >> All right. Well, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate you coming here today. >> Of course. Have a great weekend,
everyone. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. So Nicole has left the meeting. Um we any any other followup on that discussion of what we just heard
clarifications before we continue Paul? >> Yeah just um so I think that it's um so the big things we have to do is ascertainment and the public hearing. Those are two things we have to do. Um and maybe we instead of I mean there's two things we have to collect the
information from the ascertainment which can be done by survey but we can have the hearing early we can do it like in a week in a month right we can do it in end of April >> right >> and or if early May whatever and have the public hearing see if anybody shows up I bet you no one shows up except
>> you found Los Angeles media really pounds pavement gets people to show up um people tend not to show up at these types of things but we likely that we hope that they do but we can also solicit written comment because people are much more willing to to write in to us I think and also the survey I think
will be instructive. I think we have to spend some time on the survey. Maybe that goes out. We should get a little work plan outlined so we know >> we try to get maybe we try to get everything done by July 4th or something. Maybe that's overly ambitious. I'm not sure. The I
the idea of of a public meeting perhaps even before the survey has some appeal to me partly because uh if people show up at that that might help sharpen our sense of what questions we need to ask in the survey and we are free to have
more than one public meeting if that seems advisable. I I I would would argue for a for a a face-toface public meeting rather than Zoom unless unless you're pretty confident that that only a couple, you know, if a dozen people show
up, Zoom is fine. But if 50 people show up, Zoom is more or less useless. >> So, typically we do both. It's like this. So, people will be in the audience. The council has all their meetings this way. you know, you'll have four people in the audience, you'll have 50 people online and, you know, half of
them will speak. Um, but people find it really convenient to be able to weigh in if they want to testify. But I think we would do both because some people do prefer to come in, >> right? And I also think that maybe pairing maybe it's not the full survey but if there is a mechanism maybe for people
who came to the meeting and didn't get a chance to speak you know timing that so there is a mechanism online to or an email address for them to send things to. Um, and the other piece is if we were putting together an engagement plan like that,
would we be able to will will town staff who are typically um involved in pushing that information out, would they be able to help advertise that or is it just are we just going to post it as a as a public meeting? We would have resources, I
guess I'm asking for the town. Okay. Yeah, >> maybe this is a good time. Sorry, maybe this is a good time for me to raise the issue I spoke with you about before, but one of the things that that I would like to see us try to
ascertain, but is whether or not there is any interest in the town of Averest in creating a town internet service on the model of what South A is not alone that it was doing. That could be a question we asked on the questionnaire. But uh if if I were Paul before that
happened, I would want to gather some information about what it would cost to do such an internet uh to become an interrider and what the revenue from it might be. Uh, you know, I have no interest in proposing something that the
town can't possibly afford, but it seems to me it it should be possible to do some quick and dirty gathering of information about costs and possible revenue. >> Um, I should say that this way. Um, I
have to head out now, but I will catch up. Thank you all. Okay. Thank you. Just so you know, my computer just lost its power, so I'm still here, but you're not going to see me on screen. >> Okay. Um, all right. Thank you. We'll
we'll get you the any materials that we owe you. >> I I have to leave as well, but same likewise. Thank you, guys. Okay. So, it sounds like on our agenda, we'll have
some items to kind of push forward some of what we just talked about in terms of uh perhaps we'll be talking about an engagement plan and the public hearing survey at our next meeting. Um the next point of agenda really was just to have
available those documents that were sent by Nicole. So, we don't necessarily need to pause and unpack any of those items unless there is a specific question about the materials that we have um been sent previously.
>> Doesn't look like that. Um >> actually, >> yep. looking at uh the sample surveys is what I'm what I've been doing with the sample surveys is going through and trying to identify which questions specifically would help us with our
negotiations. >> I think it's critical for doing a survey to settle first on what the research question is. Um, Peter had mentioned one of the purposes of the survey being to try to gauge if there's um desire for
town internet services. If we can fashion the survey around what we end up agreeing are the research questions we're going to try to tackle, I think that'll help us along. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's something to consider uh for members between now and
the next meeting which we will talk about, excuse me, in just a second um is perhaps to take a look at those survey questions and consider our additions to it as Fred just mentioned. >> Yeah. And I think even in back of that is sort of what's the research question
that's going to be um that that those survey questions are going to answer. It's most important for us to figure out what the research questions are. Can you give an example what you think it would be? >> Um, a word research question could be,
um, where did when when you needed local equipment, where did you have where did you go to get that local equipment? And the answer being I had to go to Springfield to do that. That's information that we can use in the negotiations to push back to the cable company about not having local service.
Um there may be um it may be interesting to find out if the town wants to have internet service. I wouldn't want to see that a research question of should the town provide internet service on the survey. I don't think that's related to
our work. Um the many of the questions that are in the survey um sample surveys are classification questions. I don't know how important it is for us to know age brackets, um, those sorts of things. It may be interesting for us to know if people
have considered getting cable service but decided not to. Now, that may that may be a good thing to to know. I I don't know. That's those are just examples. >> Those are good one. And I really do
think that surveying people who are not customers is the key thing because it's like well you're falling down on this piece that's why they're you're losing customers. It's not because you know people are cutting poor but it could be your price is too high or whatever it is we can communicate them. I think that's a talking to all kinds of people or or
recent you know we would survey recent customers you know people who you know did you when did you stop you know subscribing four years ago five years ago whatever it is. So >> yeah. >> Yes. And that that's could be like um so Fred, why did you cut the cord and take
uh decide not to get your cable service? What were the reasons to um to do that? That may help us in our negotiations. In other words, I'm saying the survey questions should be directly tied to our negotiation help. >> Yep. I I I agree with what Bren is saying and it seems to me that the the
survey questions should focus on areas of customer service because that is one of the few areas we can negotiate about it. You know, if people would like more sports, we can't do anything about it. >> Correct. >> And so there's no point in focusing on it. Uh but I do think it would be worth
uh if if Paul ends up taking it's plausible asking questions about a town service uh because because this is probably the only survey we're going to do uh in the next period of years and it's a way of finding out. >> Yeah. So I think it's really outside the
scope of what this committee is scheduled to. We're here to renegotiate a contract with Comcast. So I think it's probably outside the scope of that. I mean the other things that have we can look at what the other issues were are really going to be capital that Amoris Media and the town needs in the schools.
We have to ask the schools what kind of capital are you looking for? And then the um and then also there's a big issue last year was the HD channel. >> That was a big issue for Ammerst Media and they were really reluctant to share it. I think we got we forget if we did we had sort of a most favored nation
status if they gave it to other people then they had to give it to us. Um, and it sounds like what Nicole is saying is they're taking they don't want to do that anymore. Um, and that's a big difference for people will not watch it. If if you have a HD TV, you're not going to watch it, you know, analog channel
basically, >> right? >> Um, so I'd suggest that like next time these are you we have look at the material um, uh, talk about when to do the public hearing and maybe try and do that before the academic year ends. um review the documents and then maybe
Briana before the next meeting you and I can sort of map out a little road map on where we need to be when and sort of and bring that to the committee to sort of review that when we should engage with them and when we want to have intervention with the town attorney as well. >> I think so. I think a timeline will be
helpful because it does seem pretty vast all the different pieces and and maybe who um is like principal owner of each process. So I think that's a great idea. Okay. Um, well, any other comment on that before we talk about our next
meeting? Um, there I think there was some confusion on the proposed schedules, but we definitely have our our next meeting as Friday, April 10th at 11:30 a.m. Um, in town hall, we do have it right now as a hybrid element.
So we should you know agree that that is the next meeting time and discuss and decide on the subsequent meeting occurrences. And the reason why there was a discrepancy was because there was one meeting date in that range that was not going to work. So we skipped over
it. And I think that um people's notes were different on what that looked like moving forward. Um but we are definitely on for Friday, April 10th at 11:30 a.m. in town hall. will have the hybrid um option available to members and members
of the public should you need that. Um right now I don't know um if we want to stop and look at all those dates now that we don't have two of our members with us. So >> can we just lock in the one after that? Is it May 1st the one after that? So the
the proposed schedule would have gone over to May 1st the way that I understood it, which would have been skipping that 24th, which was a Friday, and moving right into May 1st. But I understand that there was some conflict with that date. >> Yeah, I I have a conflict with May 1st.
I have a an all day meeting with a group that meets in person twice a year, so I can't miss it. >> Okay. Um, so in that case, we could, the only issue with us jumping over that would be that we'd have a full month in between meetings, which might be
>> Did we choose not to do April 24th? >> April 24th was a was a no-go for um for several people. I think that's the school vacation week. Um, >> I imagine maybe now that we have an hybrid option, we could revisit that. I
could pull the group um afterwards, but um as far as an in-person meeting, it was not viable. >> April 8th, excuse me, May 8th would work for me, but that would give a shorter
gap between some meetings, but I don't see any. >> Yeah, I think I think the only hesitation is May 8th is that our previous meeting will have been April 10th. Um and we will we will gone a month. Um >> so maybe we just get to April 10th and
then make a decision after that because >> I mean if we do want to have a public hearing, we're going to have to decide that in you know >> in that meeting >> at that at that meeting. Yeah. >> Does that does that sound okay for people to for us to discuss this as a full group whenever all the members are here since we're we're considering um
scheduling Fred's okay with that? Okay. So, the next meeting will be Friday, April 10th at 11:30 a.m. in town hall with a hybrid option. Uh, we moving on to the next agenda item. We don't have the minutes from the mass last meeting yet available to approve. So, we will
likely do that at the next meeting. Um, we did not designate somebody as our scribe today. So, I'm I'm going to hope and pray that uh Sean can send me the the recording and I'll be able to get that taken care of for us at this next meeting.
Next time we will um have that in place. Uh all right. So I'll pause on topics not anticipated by the chair in the last 48 hours in advance of this meeting. I have none. >> Peter. No Sean. Okay.
>> Okay. So now we pause for public comment. Seeing no members of the public present in the town hall town room nor in the in the virtual uh meeting room. I think we can skip that which leads us uh
to adjournment and I need a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Great. We are adjourned at 12:39 p.m. Thank you. >> Thank you, Brianna. Thank you folks. >> Thanks everyone.
>> Bye. See you soon.