questions for >> for what else they'd like to see at future meetings. So, with that, um, first of all, we're we do know that we may be joined by some other counselors and we will let you know about that, but we would like to welcome Andy Steinberg
who just went off the council this last year as an atlarge counselor. Um, and Angela Mills, who is with the town manager's office and is greatly assisting us this evening, although she's welcome to leave anytime, so she doesn't spend her evening this
way. Uh, we're going to start with what are the council committees that focusing on and um, go is actually one that both Amber and I are part of. So, Amber, why don't you start since you're the vice chair of that committee?
>> Yes. Um, so go stands for um Lyn, you're gonna have to help me. It's governance, >> organization, and >> legislation. And so um I'm as a newer counselor um getting myself acclimated to this committee. It's a very nerdy committee. So everything comes to us um
before it goes to the council to make sure that it is clear, consistent, and actionable. Um and there's also times when we are asked to um review things that you know may be coming before the council like a proclamation or resolution or a bylaw um and also review it in terms of content. So we sort of
play a dual role when we are asked to make recommendations about the content um as well. So some of the things we've done so far this year um well we created a brand new charge for a brand new committee. We are actually going to be reviewing all of our town bylaws. Um it's a I think it's an also every
10-year process. Am I right, Lynn? Yes. >> And yeah, so we are going to be looking for volunteers for a new committee that has the charge of reviewing all of our bylaws. So that is going to be a huge piece of work um coming just on the heels of our charter review. And also another huge piece of work that we will
have this year is the resident oversight board which um came about as um one of the um recommendations of the CSWG the community safety working group was to create an oversight board for our police department and there are two different sort of ways that we could go in terms
of how that will look. So there's kind of two proposals that we will be looking at as go and making a recommendation to the council for the council to vote on. Um, we're also currently updating the Human Rights Commission bylaw um to make it more in line with what the Human Rights Commission is actually doing in
practice. And you know, we've had um a lot of proclamations and resolutions come before us. U most recently the resolution on holding ICE accountable when it breaks the law, which I will talk about a bit more later. So that is some of the things. Oh, and we have as a
result of our charter review, GO will also be looking at about nine to 10 different recommendations for changing our charter to bring a recommendation back to the council. And I will review those with you all once we get to that piece of the agenda. >> Great.
>> So, one of the nice things uh this last year was I've now returned to the finance committee. I was off it for one year, but I'm back on. And uh as you can well imagine, we're gearing up for the annual budget process. The budget process actually started back in
November uh when we started receiving uh citizens and uh residents u recommendations for things they'd like to see in the ch in the budget this year. Uh it continues on uh at the by the end of March, April 1st actually, uh
the town manager will have received both the um uh budgets from the two different school districts, the regional school district and the elementary school district, and he will have received the Jones Library budget. um the town manager then puts the budget together
along with all the town um uh departments as well and makes a recommendation to the council on May 1st. At that point it gets referred to the finance committee and the finance committee spends the month of May uh
meeting twice a week looking at the various pieces of the budget in greater much greater detail and meeting with department heads um and other staff as appropriate. And then by the 1st of June it must bring their recommendation for the budget back to the council. And the
council spends the month of June holding various hearings uh or public forums uh particularly around capital expenditures and the budget in general. So um that's part of the um piece that's going on this year. The schools have also held
public forums um and we did have a four towns meeting on the regional budget which at this point seems to be pretty acceptable to all four towns. Um but we'll see as it comes forward. Um they met last night and uh the elementary
budget will be finished uh before the end of the next week. Um so um and then let me just mention um CRC Community Resources Committee is getting ready to advance the solar bylaw that they've
been working on which also includes um pieces around um the restor the um whole issue of storage and so forth. I'd like to welcome council president Mandy Joe Hanicki who's also a district I we I'm
sorry a townwide counselor. Hi Mandy. And Mandy, you're on CRC. So if you want to ch uh chime in and tell us a little bit more about CRC. I've mentioned the solar bylaw and I know you worked on that and then I assume the downtown
design standards will be going to CRC. Um yeah, I I don't want to take over the meeting and I'm sorry I'm late. Um but yeah, clean energy should be coming to which is what solar bylaw is now called. Um because it deals with both solar and
battery energy storage. We have put both of them into the bylaw right now. Um and it should be coming to the council in late April um to get referred for planning board and CRC hearings. So that is exciting.
And then it will go through the typical zoning bylaw hearing process. Um the goal is to adopt by early September because the by state regulation and law the towns must start
accepting consolidated permits under the law on October 1. So the goal is to have the bylaw in effect by October 1, which means it needs adopted at least 14 days prior. Um so so that's that. Yeah, CRC
is is also going to be looking at at some point downtown design standards if there are zoning bylaw requested changes that eventually accompany them that would come to CRC and I next meeting I think we're actually looking at just an
overview of them in an upcoming meeting. Let me also mention although we'll be making a bigger plug later and that is that um CRC also accepts uh applications for both zoning board and for um
zoning board of appeals and planning board and that is an active solicitation at this point along with all of our many other committees and they interview them and then make a recommendation to the council. Um TSO trans town services and
outreach is actually focusing on waste hauler. There's a a consultant that's been hired and the goal there is to develop the specifications in the RFP. They we have established a transportation and parking commission
which is meeting u for the first time around now and they will actually be picking up many of the issues related to roads and sidewalks and parking in town and then in addition to that
TSO uh has also been uh given a couple of the pieces of the charter review particularly those that deal with community engagement. So, and we want to thank Andy Steinberg who's with us because he chaired TSO for many many uh
years, it seems. Are there any questions about council committee focus? Use the raise hand function if you would like. Okay, seeing none, we're going to go on. Um, we did talk about the budget
process. Um it's long and complicated but I can send you various documents about it as well. As you know I just want to mention this year that one of the major strains that not only Ammerst is going is under but many many town
cities and towns across the Commonwealth and that is the minimal increase in funding for schools and that is creating enormous strain on our school budgets. Um it's causing everybody 211 cities and towns, mostly smaller towns and
municipalities to really have to look at tough budgets. And so I mean you just read the local paper or read the Boston paper and you can constantly see articles about this. It's leading many towns to consider overrides. And um we
have just appointed two new people to the finance committee and one of them is somebody who really follows the school budgets very closely. Um so charter review Amber. >> Yeah. And just to add on um on the
school funding issue, um the person that Lynn is referring to, her name is uh Kathleen Mitchell and she's um also the sort of um de facto leader of a group called um Save Our Schools Ammerst, which is very active and does a lot of education work around school budgets.
And so I would definitely recommend um for folks who are on Instagram uh follow SOS. There's also a website um for more information and and more um you know just information about how you can advocate for the school budget. So just putting in a plug for that and I'm so glad we have Kathleen um joining
finance. >> Yeah, absolutely. Great choice. >> Yeah, she knows more about budget than I do and if I ever have questions I go to Kathleen and I hope that she can share her knowledge with many more. So um let's talk a bit about the charter review process. um folks familiar with
that that that was happening just you know thumbs up if you've heard of it like never heard of it before thumbs down okay so I got some thumbs up Darcy Deont I know you know what that is she's hiding um so the charter review
process it's something that um we do um according to our charter every 10 years starting in the year 2024 and so um the process of reviewing the charter was started that year and I'm just going to show a few slides. I don't want to overwhelm folks. There is a longer slide
presentation on this, but I'm just going to show you a few of those slides. Um Lynn, can you see my screen? Okay, >> I can. >> Okay, so this is just here's why we're doing this. Um the committee charge was, you know, what we're looking at. So, we're getting um the the committee had
to look at public input on potential improvements and provide a report to the council. There were um nine very hardworking members of this committee chosen by the town council. Um they worked very hard to put together this report and um the report was presented
um in early January and so we as a council had to act on it um within 90 days which we have and I'll explain that in a moment. Um, so if folks would like to know um what the charter review process found, there is um this QR code will lead you to a slideshow that is
much more in-depth than what I'm going to cover. And I think we can also throw a link to that in the chat in a moment, but um I'm just going to go over sort of the basics. Um I know this doesn't look basic, but there's 22 recommendations and we had to figure out, okay, what are we going to
do with them? Right? So, we have some of them if you see on the left are things that we call um we'll go what we call a special act, right? So, we send that to the legislature. Um we're going to have our attorneys draft language um for the charter and then um we send that to the legislature to ask it to be passed by
special act. And so, if you look at sort of what's on that list, um most of it pertains to definitions and things that could just be clarified like fairly simple changes. Um you'll see that you know in terms of participation we are increasing uh district meetings to three
per year instead of two. So you'll be seeing us more um if you want to. And um also we talked about having the voter veto um signature period go from 14 to 21 days. So if the voters want to veto something um passed by the council,
there's now 21 days to um get the signatures once this passes. So that's going directly to um be drafted as language. If you look at what's on the right, that's stuff that needs more work, needs to cook a little bit more, I would say. So, that's the the things I mentioned that are going to go. So,
we're going to be talking about those items in terms of like, is this something we can do by just making it a procedural rule or does it need to go to the charter? And if it does go to the charter, like what do we want the language to be? And so, we're going to make recommendations to the council on
those items. Um, and then there was also recommendations that were more pertaining to finance, like wanting to have more information and more earlier public forums on the budget so that people can be more active in, you know, forming the budget and the budget process in our town. Um, and then the
only one that we tabled was requiring requiring resident members on the finance committee. We decided to keep our current um our current process in which we invite we do have resident members on the finance committee, but we're not requiring it. Um, so that's kind of a summary. Again, I'm going to
share the link to the report if folks want to read more about um, you know, what we decided to do with these recommendations. And then um, finally, I'm going to take that down because there's um, one more slide that I want to share and that is one really great
thing that the charter committee did was it looked at, you know, what can we do beyond the charter, right? So, you know, there's a lot of really great recommendations um that the committee made. Um I'm going to scroll down. So, these are the 22 that we've already acted on as a
council. And then we have beyond the charter. So, you got you know all kinds of things like structural issues like you know people you know saying things like hey like we'd like to have a mayor council form a government or we want a smaller council. So these are like major
structural issues that would require a new charter practically. So those are things that would fall under you know perhaps having a public dialogue about you know how folks feel about that first. Um and then we have um public engagement issues. So these are things
that we can do um probably most of them without actually changing the charter but it would help us to engage people more in the in the town government. Um, so those are things that we're looking at and um, Mandy Joe who is on the call has done a great job of leading us
through this report and like helping us figure out how we can take action on the different elements in a timely fashion. And so now we're really going to be diving into this beyond the charter stuff and figure out how we can best um, implement um, many of these changes and recommendations. Um and it's it is a
matter like we've been calling it sort of like the air traffic control process of like what committee can best you know be effective in making a change um on this particular item. And so we've done that for the 22 basic recommendations and now we're going into beyond the
charter. And what else would I say about that? Anything else, Lynn? >> Yeah, let me just mention that some of the ones that we are sending off to our attorney for language. It's to get language that we would then go to the um legislature. They would agree that we
can put it on our ballot. The earliest that anybody will see it on the ballot is in the fall of 2027. Um, and if there's any other significant changes, one of which we discussed the other night, and that's trying to figure out, is there language that can allow us
to go ahead and implement rank choice voting without having to go through the special act of the legislature? Uh, and a couple others as well. So, it's really um a complicated process uh of going through all of these recommendations. we
did do it within the time frame uh in terms of disposing how we would deal with them and uh again thanking Mandy Johanni for guiding us through and I call this mishmash of uh recommendations but I mean that very very positively and
want to thank the charter commission for the unbelievably good work that they did and the many ways in which they listened to the public. Are there questions about the charter review process? Glad to see a few pleased hands. Um, one of the things, by the way, is the idea
of having more district meetings. In the past, we we've usually had at least three anyway, and uh, we're glad to have as many district meetings as you want to have. So, um, the next item is roads,
potholes, mailboxes, street poles, and lights. And what we want to do is I I will just tell you both Amber and I have been compiling lists from people who have given them to us. We have been sharing those lists with the town
manager. I see Eric Einhorn on here. And Eric, I think this year you'll get a new poll finally for your light on Fox Lane. Uh we also have a variety of different lights that are out. Uh, and one of the things that has been the problem there
has been the um, truck that's used to elevate people up so that they can change lights was uh, broken and now it's either been replaced or we have a new one. In addition to that, uh, you said you had a QRS code for the road
thing. Uh, do you want to put that in the chat or do you want to show something, Amber? >> Um, I will do. Um, let me put it in the chat for folks. Um, >> okay. And you can see the the memo that Paul presented to us. Um, >> so in the town manager's goals this
year, uh, actually in last year as well was to present a multi-year plan for the improvement of our roads because we can't even make excuses for them. They are abysmal. They're a mess. And uh, they're not getting any better. and they aren't going to get any better until we
can start patching them, which we're trying to do a little bit here of some of the worst ones, but even then the patches come up given how hard it rains and stuff like that. The goal is, however, to lay out a five-year plan so that we actually can catch up. And this
year, I believe the plan that we're going to be seeing later, I believe in April, um is uh one where we're going to focus a little more on some of the side roads that are in really bad shape. Uh, and some of them I frankly they're in
district two. We'll talk later on about Heatherstone specifically in the roundabouts, but uh, the part of Heatherstone that was ne never paved and the whole part of Gate House Road that has consistently been a problem is high
on our list of district 2 issues. Um, so there we're collecting our list. Grantwood is another place that's high on that list. Uh, and all of us have had different um, meetings at different times on that. Um, but what I want to
make sure you do is if you have a specific request for a light that's out for a road, don't forget to use cclick fix and report it because it's only once it's reported that people can actually
start the countdown to have it repaired. And if it's reported and you hit it and it does damage to your car, you actually can make a claim. So, but it has to have been reported. So, make sure that you report potholes. Um, so please make sure
I I do know I've gotten complaints from a couple people because of our incredible snow this season. The plows have taken down a couple mailboxes and damaged others. And so the town is looking to how to replace those
mailboxes. But if you have a specific request, please contact Amber and me both and we'll add it to the list of the many, many, many um lights, light poles, etc. that are on the list. Are there
questions or comments about that particularly? Yes, Mr. Hoot J. >> Yes, Juliet. I'm sorry. >> Hi. >> Hi. Yeah. Uh just a quick question and maybe I could just email you or Amber about uh roundabouts. Um because
sometimes they get kind of crazy like everybody's like I'm gonna get there first and boom and boom boom boom boom boom. They're not taking turns. I thought I I maybe I'm mistaken that you get to a roundabout whoever's there first like the four-way stop sign. If you're in there, you wait. I mean, if
you're if somebody's in there, you wait and you let the person who got first go. Is that correct or am I >> There is a whole protocol. There is a whole protocol for roundabouts. And one of the things that we feel is missing particularly for the roundabouts on
Heatherstone is signage that lets people know that if you're not in the circle, you yield to others. And pretty much you use the same uh protocol you use at stop signs. Person to the right goes, person to unless you got there first. So it's
kind of in the same category for roundabouts. Um we um just we'll get to Heatherstone later because we have had several meetings about Heatherstone and we want to bring you up to date on our conversations with the town manager on that.
>> Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't want to take too much. >> No, no problem, Eric. You need to unmute, Eric. >> Thank you. Um, I just I'm glad to see that that that even the lighting I remember the town took over the street
lights about uh 30 odd years ago and uh it's really gone downhill since there. I mean, they did they did replace the bulbs with better bulbs, but uh it as you were summarizing it, it really are a lot of lights in many neighborhoods that
are out. But the other question I have is um does when you're building roundabouts and other roadway, how do you decide what's done by the DPW and what's done by outside contractors? It seems to me that it might be more
efficient to use more outside contractors and u less of our uh DPW. Um I can answer that only to the best of my knowledge and uh Mandy Joe you may
have other answers. Angela might even have some answers on this. Um the big projects are usually done in other words resurfacing etc are usually done by outside contractors. If it's actually pothole repair and the minor ones those
are usually done by our um people. Some of it's very much dependent on who has the right equipment. So for example if you're going to do a complete dig up the road and replace the whole thing the town does not have that level of equipment. But on the other hand, if
you're going to do potholes, then the town does have, in fact, they got a new piece of equipment just last year. And many people were very pleased with the pothole repair that we had by last fall. But then we had this enormously rough winter. And many, many of those potholes
have become exposed again. And they're just, you know, my road's as bad as your road is as bad as the next person's road. There's no excuse for it except for >> Lynn. >> Yes. This is Kirsten Einhorn. Can I just I know that you know that we haven't had
a lamp post for two years. I'm not going to drag that up except for the fact that it has been covered by a large orange and white thing that has been mangled >> by the snow and the box underneath it is
crooked and I don't know what that means. I have reported it to the town. I have had no feedback. And you one of your neighbors contacted me recently just two days ago or yes maybe it was even yesterday and I have sent that on
to the town manager because it seems to me that by not having a cone on it you could presenting be presenting another danger as well. >> So >> well the thing is that that huge ugly cone has been sitting there for two years now and right
>> all it takes is a snow plow or a kid who comes by and removes it. Right. >> And I don't know what the danger of that is. >> Well, I'm sure >> it is a concern of mine. >> Yeah, I'm sure the wires underneath are not live. They would make sure of that,
but it doesn't mean that the hole itself is not properly covered. So, we are looking into that and thank you for bringing it to our attention. >> Are there other comments or questions about roads >> mailboxes? Again, write us. That's what
we're here for. part of constituent services. It's one of the reasons you have district counselors is you know who to write. Jacob. >> Hi. Thanks. Um I'm wondering um what's the mechanism that road repair is funded
by and how did we get so far behind in the game? It seems like now that you're on the finance committee that would be a prime thing to start looking at. It also seems really ironic to me that uh the roads are in such bad shape and the
folks that we rely on working on them are the ones without a contract and they're working in a building which has been you know sadly neglected also. So it certainly has a a very specific um image of what Ammeris is like.
So why don't we uh Amber use this opportunity. We'll come back to ICE and talk about DPW and so forth. But let me just talk about road money. Road money comes from a variety of different s uh uh sources. The state which is chapter 90. Last year for the first time they
actually spit split the chapter 90 money so that they did some of it based on population half and they did the other half based on road miles. that is to our advantage because the population formula was absolutely not to our advantage. So
it has um led to a slightly larger state allocation. The rest of the road money sometimes it does come from special grants. We periodically apply for grants for instance for the roundabout on University Drive is a grant that the university and the town jointly applied
for. uh other times it comes from our own money and so it's a combination and what we're trying to do is get a solid figure on what do we actually have in combination both with grants with chapter 90 and with our um town money as
well in the most recent allocation of what we call free cash which is the worst misnomer I've ever heard um because it's not free but it is cash what you have left at the end of each fiscal year and then you get to allocate
it. Now we have certain guidelines that require that we keep a certain percentage in reserves and we also put money into our ongoing capital improvement fund as well. So in the process we did actually allocate about
2.6 or 7 million more from the free cash this last year toward the roads and that is the beginning of trying to address this new five-year plan. Um, Amber has been working very closely uh with DPW people about the contract. Although we
want to both be very clear, the town council does not negotiate contracts. We are not authorized to do that. That is the responsibility of the town manager. And then I'll talk about the DPW building which goes back for me history
even before I ever went on the council. So Amber, you want to talk about DPW contract? >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll just give a brief summary. Um, so I guess it was about I think early early February that um the union president came to the council and
asked us to um you know to basically be supportive of their union and getting um a fair contract and they were concerned because they um had gone into um a mediation process um which then led to impass and um once you're an impath then
you go through a process called factf finding and basically um it's very long and drawn out and I've been a union person for many years and I know that's just not a good position to be in, you know, frankly for either party. So, um you know, we um myself and a few other
counselors um asked for um a special meeting for the DPW workers to be heard and you know, some of the the things that they um have shared with us, you know, include concerns about the building. Um you know, they they we all know they need a new building, but what are the current impacts of them being in
that building in the meantime while the new one's being built? um with some health and safety hazards that they're facing. Um and then I think some of the other issues that we we really need to look at, you know, as a town and um you know, specifically as a council that's um thinking about the budget is, you
know, are we budgeting enough to get to, you know, for competitive wages because if other towns the problem that we're having is that folks are working in Ammerst and they're getting really skilled at their jobs and, you know, they're getting trained up and then they're leaving us for other other positions in other towns where they can
make more money. And so we want to stay competitive and we want to make sure that we have the highly skilled workers that we need. We have a really complicated uh water system here in Ammerst with machinery that it's not a lot of people know how to use or have licenses to use. So um retention is
really a concern and we want to make sure that we um have a strong contract that you know will keep people in our town and keep skilled people in our town um and and also that we have you know the staffing that we need in our various departments. And so, um, we are having a special meeting on Monday the 30th at
6:30 if folks want to join or listen or, um, give a public comment and we're going to be, um, looking at some of these issues in depth and trying to see what we can do as a council. Um, you know, as Lynn said, we don't negotiate the contract, but our job is to fund the contract. So, what can we do as a
council to help improve the the conditions that they're facing? Any questions about that? Well, I'd just like to point out the town manager who negotiates the contract does report to you. So, in a sense, you have a lot of authority over the
contract, >> right? We do, but we want to be very clear there's issues that prevent us from actually being involved in contract negotiations. >> So, that's but yes, and um there's been some seriously good progress. It's been
reported in the newspaper. Um, and beyond that, I we really don't know, but it there's implications in the newspaper at least that we're ready to getting close to a settlement. >> Please go ahead. >> You have a question.
>> I had a comment. I don't know. It's a question. Yes. South Ammerst comments. There's a building that used to be part of the school system. I think it's empty. Is that you don't have to answer now, but I was just thinking maybe that would be a possibility to temporary
housing of some of the Department of Public Works while their building is being, you know, renovated or what they need to do. I was just is there other buildings or that one maybe that could be used as temporary? Let's just throw it out there.
>> Yeah, let me uh let me jump to the issue of the building itself. Uh the Department of Public Works building and our central fire station are both in pitable pitiful shape. Actually, the Department of Public Works building is in worse shape than even the fire
station even. And it was originally a trolley barn. I'm hoping that when they actually get around to finally doing something with the property, which we hope is soon, that we can determine whether there really is a trolley buried in the backyard. I've heard various
rumors. Um but in the process uh there was first a DPW committee that looked at the potential uh design for a new building and then there was a DPW fire station study uh committee. I actually chaired that prior to going on the
council and even back in 2005 and six I chaired the other count the other committee that looked at the fire station. By the way that was the third committee looking at the central fire station. Uh and we're now in 2026, 20 years later. Um so in the process, we
now have a brand new newly appointed committee to look at it called a department of public works building committee. It has um one counselor on it and a couple other and other residents from PE from town as well as town staff.
The two sites that they are actively looking at is the existing DPW site and a site that many people don't even know exists called Ruxton. It's actually up above um uh Puffers Pond but far enough away that there's not a problem and it's
on Pulpit Hill Road uh and Ruxton actually years ago was act was uh purchased for the purpose of DPW. So, in the process of looking at how to house DPW, the existing B buildings of
the town, one of the ones that I know they will be looking at is the North Ammerst um elementary school. It's that old school building that sits right on the North Ammerst area. Uh in addition to that, there may be some temporary buildings built at some point on Ruxton
that would later be used for storage in offseason vehicles. There's any number of options but it is an active piece of work with the goal that we actually are in the ground and starting to do something within a year. Uh, one of the
reasons why it's critically important for us to be working at this level and this pace is because there's also legislation before the state legislature which actually would establish a fund for um emer municipal buildings besides
schools and libraries. Right now there are already funds for that, but this is a proposal that's been out there for about two or three years. We've testified regularly on it and the further along you are to have shovels in the ground the better off you'll be to
be able to apply for some of those funds. Um it's not a law yet and one of the biggest issue of course is what going to be how the state will fund that. Meanwhile, I do want to applaud the fact that we have also u appropriated the money to do a study of
the wastewater treatment plant. Many of the pieces of equipment in the very large basins, if you will, that are there are not in working condition. And we are actually not just the wastewater treatment plant for Amorest, but we also
serve little parts of some of the surrounding towns as well as Hadley. So, it's an important regional facility. It was built as a regional facility and more and more people, towns or municipalities would like to use it. But
at the same time, uh, I can't call it a user fee. I can't call it an initiation fee. But I feel like when a new town or municipality comes in, they need to do something that basically buys into the infrastructure that we have so heavily
invested in. So that's an issue that we need to be looking at. The other piece that is that we do an enormous um, an incredible job of taking care of protecting our water system. Uh just on Monday we approved yet again with a lot
of outside funding the purchase of some land around one of our watershed areas. We also did replace our Centennial Water Plant and we do a variety of other things to make sure. So Ammerst actually is in very good shape from a standpoint
of its water supply. Now, the irony for those of us in district two, particularly those of us that live up in the Shootesbury Road and Flat Hills Road and so forth, we don't we are not on water town water or sewer. So, um we're
the one district that has the most number of residents. There's only about 5% of Ammerst that is not on Ammerst water and sewer. But the other thing that is important to know is that in both cases there are funds that are
created by the taxes that people pay or for the service of water and sewer and much of the money for those kinds of things comes out of those funds. So it's not part of the regular budget process unless it goes beyond that. So there's
it's actually a pretty well-managed system. I think we're probably feeling the best about the our water system and we know that there is a serious problem with our uh wastewater system. Um are there anybody else want to talk ask
questions about those issues? Mandy Joe, please jump in anytime you want. >> You guys are doing great. >> Thanks. Uh Amber, you want to go to the ice update? Yeah. So, um I just wanted to give an
update on um overall in general what we're doing to protect our community against ICE. It's definitely been a concern of a lot of um residents and um we as counselors have received a lot of emails and communications about um folks's concerns. Um so, I'm just going
to share um a few updates of um some um policies that we are working on. Um, and also, um, hold on, I have a slide, I promise. Just losing my Zoom window.
Okay, here we go. Can you see the protecting the community from ice slide? >> Yes. You need to make it a slide. >> Yeah, I'm going to make it bigger. Hold on. I got too many windows open.
How's that? >> That's it. >> Okay. So, these are sort of like the major like policy things that we've been doing. Um so, um on March 3rd, um our town manager, Paul Buckleman, came out with an executive order. Um and I'm going to also be putting this in the
chat when I'm done discussing it. Um the executive order is something similar that u municipalities have been doing across the country to protect their their citizens from ICE and particularly in the sense of making sure that ICE is not using um municipal property for operations um like you know not using it
as a staging area for um you know ICE enforcement actions um you know making sure that our town employees are not you know serving in the role of an immigration enforcement um capacity which is already part of our sanctuary bylaw which I'm going to get to in a moment. Um, but it reiterates a lot of our
long-standing policies and it also expands a bit upon them. Um, which in really important ways. Um, the sanctuary bylaw, the second thing, um, that we have is in our general bylaws. Um, it's page 20. Um, and I'll also put that in the chat in a moment. And that, um,
basically we passed that in 2017 as a town. And basically that says that our police officers will not act as immigration agents, right? They're not going to take on the role of ICE. They're not going to play an enforcement role. they're not going to collaborate with ICE. Essentially, if we have someone in the town in our custody, um
we're not going to then keep holding them after they've already been, you know, say arrested for something, we're not going to keep holding them so that ICE can come pick them up, for example. So, we don't do those kinds of detainers. Um, you know, we don't ask people about their immigration status when we stop them. You know, very basic things, but things that are very
important to um to have codified in a bylaw. Um, so there are some updates um that we think um that can be made to this bylaw. So myself and um the council vice president Alicia Walker have been meeting with the ACLU to look at some of the um suggested amendments to our bylaw
and we expect to be able to present something to the council um within the next month I would say. But um we will also be asking for community input around those edits and those amendments as well. And there will be that will be a process. So there's for any bylaw updates there's, you know, it has to be
read twice by the council. It may get referred to a committee. Um there'll be a public hearing. So there will be plenty plenty of opportunity for public input into that process. Um and then finally, the resolution calling for federal immigration officers to be held accountable for violations of Massachusetts criminal law was recently
passed. Um and there's a link to it there. And that's basically saying that um we are as a community encouraging our um our state uh law enforcement agencies to collect evidence and prosecute um ICE
officers that may commit um criminal acts in our state. So, you know, for example, if you um you know, assault someone or if you you know, and unfortunately to say that in Minnesota, um ICE has actually killed people um and so they should be held accountable um by
state laws if the federal government, and we assume the federal government is not going to prosecute them. So, um it encourages our state law enforcement officials and our local law enforcement officials to um keep evidence and hold evidence if they find evidence of this misconduct and also to prosecute um
these officers that may break the law. Um and so that was recently passed. So, those are some of the um the policy um things that we're working on and have worked on. Um I just also wanted to share this data that was provided at our last council meeting. So, as part of our
sanctuary bylaw, um this data can be requested at any time by three citizens um or not citizens, sorry, three registered voters of the town. Um and it has four different categories of data that we can ask for um in terms of our
town's interaction with um with ICE and with immigration enforcement. And so, as you can see, the um Ammerst Police Department has reported zero in the year 2025. um so that no one's been transferred to ICE custody. Um there's been no um
detainer requests and um there's been no U visas. So again, that's something that I think the Human Rights Commission asks for once a year, but any you know, any registered voters can ask for that um at any time. Um so the reporting piece is definitely important. And then the other
thing that I would just say is that um Lucay is an organization that's really been helpful in helping communities prepare for ICE and it's really important that we don't um you know uh put information that may be incorrect about ICE on like social media or like
neighborhood groups like we want to make sure that anything we report is verified. And so um if folks do think that they might see ICE um would just encourage them to report it to Lucay. and I'm going to put their phone number in the chat and they have verifiers that will actually come out and um verify if
it was ICE and we'll alert the community as needed um so that we have it can go through that level of verification before we send information out there. Um there's also other community groups that are active in organizing and there's a group that I know of that's specifically helping to you know create safety plans
and advocate for safety plans in our schools. Um, if anyone else wants to share anything about other work that you might be doing on this, I would definitely encourage you to share because I know we've a lot of us in our community are concerned about this and have been working on it. >> So, let me just mention um the Lucay
which um Amber is putting the phone number in. Uh if you see something, the best thing to do is make sure you say where it is, give the best street uh coordinations and describe it and if there's a license plate. What they have found is that if they can get there fast
enough, they often basically discourage anything from happening. Normally, that's not the case. And in fact, in Massachusetts alone, 5,000 people have been detained and deported by ICE or detained, but may some may still be in the country, some have been deported.
And that to me was a shocking number. Uh, and as you well know, um, the state legislature is also looking at legislation and the governor filed an executive order. Um, are there any questions on those issues?
Okay. Um, >> I have also one more thing, Lynn, you made me think of that, um, the governor's office has also opened a portal um, where you can report any misconduct by ICE officials in Massachusetts. And I will when we go to the next item I will look that up and I'll put that in the chat as well. So
you know that I think there was like another really egregious instance of you know somebody um in ICE custody being mistreated or something of that nature and there was community pressure for this to be created. So now there's a statewide portal to report any incidents of um ICE agents breaking the law.
>> Right. Um I want to share oh >> a link that is part of our next item >> which is basically to tell you about all the committees that we are presently
trying to recruit for and here they are and tells you how many vacancies there are and mo many of these are appointments by the town manager. They go to TSO. They then come to the council for approval. But some of these are
actually also and I mentioned earlier zoning board of appeals uh is um on here is not on here and the planning board are not is not on here. The other one that we are recruiting for we will begin recruiting for very very soon and that's
the bylaw review committee. So this is again a requirement of the charter that every 10 years in the year that begins in 2000 in that ends in six um that we have to do a review of our bylaws and we particularly want to review the bylaws
this year uh as it relates to anything that needs to be changed that we didn't catch on the first review which was done the very first prior to the council convening and then the very first year of the council. But we want to put an eye toward this toward climate and also
towards equity and um any kind of discrimination. So please make sure that if you are interested we will also be providing this information to you in emails but you fill out the community activity form and that's the link for
that is right here and this was in a recent press release and then you can track the various vacancies. This is one of the best ways that we get the talent of Ammerst to serve the town of Ammerst. It is just incredibly important to have
these committees um populated and to have them become active residents, have them be populated by active residents of Ammerst. So, we can put the press release in the chat, too. Okay.
>> Yeah. And we'll send an email with all these follow-up links as well. I think we decided that's we put so much stuff in the chat. So that's probably deal with it as a follow-up email. >> Exactly. We're also recording the meeting which we'll send out. Um, so are there questions
and issues that you would like to raise to the group at this point? And then Amber has suggested and we try an experiment and that would be breakout groups where you talk among each other and come back to us with your thoughts
about uh what kind of things you would like to make sure we talk about at future council meetings and so forth. We've never done this before. So um we uh but but before we do that, let's see whether we have other issues people want to raise now.
Oh, we never did talk about Heatherstone. I guess we better do it. >> Yeah, >> Kitty will come to you in a moment. So, as you know, uh I'm going to pause for a moment on that request. As you know, um Heatherstone has been an issue and the roundabouts on Heatherstone have been an
issue for a long time, ever since they were put in two years ago. Um, we have had special meetings with the T town services and outreach committee and then last November we had a special district meeting especially just to this and then
Amber and I were able to attend the um Echohill North um um association meeting and we learned something interesting there. 10 years ago there was a survey done about Heatherstone Road and what they
concluded then be even though before there were roundabouts just as we are coming to the conclusion now there's no consensus some people want to keep the roundabouts other people actually want them out of the way today and you know that yesterday would have been soon
enough and or they would have liked it to been yesterday and then other people are kind of neutral about it. What we found out is that when they looked at similar options for speed reduction on Heatherstone 10 years years ago, there was no consensus either. We did approach
that group about conducting another survey. They have at so far said they don't they do not want to do another survey and and yet they have some of the best connections. So, I guess it was back in maybe
February that we met with Paul Bachaman, um, Amber, and we discussed Heather Stone and other issues with him about District 2, things like street lights, etc. And in the process,
we did bring up the issue of signage and the issue that people don't know how you're supposed to deal with a roundabout, especially when they're teeny like the ones on Heatherstone. And then consistently we have talked with
people and they've said, you know, if you're going to spend money, would you please pave the rest of Heatherstone because it's now as bad as well. the original Heatherstone piece that was done was so it it continues to remain a
dilemma at this point. It is not on a list and unfortunately what is also not on the list at this point we are going to see another list in April is is there any money to do something some other treatment to Heatherstone besides
roundabouts. So, in other words, remove the roundabouts and put in speed bumps or u or more sidewalks or whatever the case may be. That is the latest update we can give you. I'm going to ask Amber to do this. I'm
sorry. I've had this. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've had the family cold. >> Take care of yourself. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I I would just add to that that I've I've been to now, you know, multiple meetings on this issue and I think the the consensus has been that um
while they are annoying um to some people, they're kind of better than nothing. And so, we did talk to Paul about it and we talked about um getting some signage in there that will kind of warn people in advance like, "Hey, a roundabout is coming. Like, reduce your speed. Um you know, we don't want, you know, cars to get damaged because people
don't know they're there or they're not expecting them, you know, and so forth." then they should be prepared to slow down and to to make the turn. So, um I think that's kind of what we've landed on and and folks are concerned if we took them out there would be no mechanism for slowing people down at all. So, that's that fortunately I think
that's where we've landed. >> Any any other questions, thoughts on on >> Could I could I just make a comment about about your last point? I'm Mark McCannish on Alpine Drive. I I'm I don't think they are better than nothing. I
guess that's my concern. I think um I think they're really dangerous. Um because they're not true roundabouts and people aren't, in my experience, people aren't slowing down if they're, you know, going straight across Heatherstone.
And um they have the appearance of roundabouts if people pay attention to the sign. There's a little circular sign there and a yield sign, but I don't think people are uh behaving like they're true roundabout. So, for me, that presents a danger because um being
on Alpine, I'm turning left off of Heatherstone and I'm not trusting people coming um northbound on Heatherstone to if I'm, you know, in what little intersection or what little roundabout area there is.
I'm not sure they're going to stop. I'm not sure they if they're local, they probably would know to do that, but if they're just cutting through as so many people do, I I'm not sure. I I don't believe that everyone's going to stop. And I've seen people just steam on through and really not slow down at all.
So, I understand that if the purpose is to to slow down traffic, I think that's great because people do speed through there, but I think there we need to look for another way. Thank you. Um Jeff and Marilyn,
>> that's Jeff. Uh yeah, I agree with I agree with Mark. Um this the other day I had two converging problems came together. Um as you know, I think Lynn, we have now four student houses within um eight eight houses in this little
stretch of Auburnwood Road. Not our problem anymore since we're moving away, but it's gotten really bad. But, um, you know, I think that when Mark goes through those, I'm sure he goes slow and he goes the right direction cuz we're we're grown-ups. But the other day, I was going through on the right side of
one of the roundabouts, the right correct side. And suddenly, I find somebody passing me that that did the straight one that did the straightaway and went on the left side. And she did it twice. It just happened to be a very young person who lives two doors down. Um, there's no signage. I do. I blame
her. I blame her. I also blame the town for not having appropriate signage to to let people know how they work. And also, as we said to to uh Guilford long ago, they were placed wrong. They're just placed in the they're in the wrong place. And he assured us that this was
an experiment and if they didn't work, he'd take them out. And then he told us at the last meeting, well, that wasn't possible or he wasn't going to do it, whatever it was. So, um, they're a problem. Um, I agree with Mark. They're we'd be better off without them, but as you know, Lynn, this is not our problem
anymore as of a month from now. >> They're they're they're leaving Ammerst just to be so >> because of just because of that. >> Yeah. Are you gonna are you going to take the roundabouts with you? >> Yeah. Right. >> We're gonna pack them up. >> Uh, Amber, did you have something you wanted to add? No, I I would I was just
saying too that, you know, I think to your point, I I think that that's why the signage would be helpful to get people ready ahead of time to know that a roundabout is coming. I mean, I've I've driven I'm not I don't live in that neighborhood either, but I have driven it and, you know, I've gotten used to it
at this point, but I I think it is when you see something like that, it doesn't look like a typical roundabout. And so, maybe as a driver, you don't really know what you're supposed to do with it. And so a sign that clearly says roundabout coming, slow down, would be like before you get to it, not when you're right
upon it, would at least do something to to help deal with the issues that you're talking about. Um Andy, >> I promised to get it come on for my picture, but I don't have time to do that. Um, I just wanted to um remind you
that um the uh removal of the roundabouts will cost money and um the installation of additional uh
replacements like speed bumps will cost money. And so when we start talking about other issues that we have uh in heard about even tonight like the other sections of Heatherstone or Gate House
um you know it there there's a competition always for money for everything um and uh well I just to let you know um I have been appointed to the uh transportation and parking commission. So one thing I had been
working on uh as a counselor I will have some continuity about and uh people are welcome to um contact me personally about those issues. >> Thanks Andy. Um the person whose last name is man
>> is that Rich or before it said Rich and and somebody but >> Hi yes that's me. Hi. >> Uh, so I I'm Rich Mlan. I live on Alpine. Um, I guess I wanted to to say that I'm happy
to hear that there's not um action going to be taken on removing the the roundabouts this year. Uh I agree that they were placed poorly, but uh I strongly agree um with the statement that they're going to cost money and we
have tight budgets and we're seeing the town doesn't seem to be able to maintain level services for its elementary school district. So removing roundabouts would be the absolute bottom of my list of priorities for town money right now.
And and I will just say Rich that that is exactly the kind of con of you know no consensus statements we've heard. We've heard statements like we don't want them removed until there is a a solution of
in other words another traffic calming solution. We've heard statements like, "Remove them yesterday." And then we've heard other statements like, "They really don't bother me." And I have to I have to say, I've been there at 8 in the morning. I've been there at 3:00 in the afternoon. I've been there at 5:00 in
the afternoon standing, watching, seeing what was going on. And the fact that people don't know how to use these particular roundabouts and don't use them properly is still an issue that is does not seem to correct itself. Um when
you get into a much bigger roundabout, I think people do know how to use them much more properly and we're seeing more and more of them in Ammerst. We're about to see another one at University Drive and AMD. Um so are there other issues people want to raise to the whole group?
And then um Heather uh I mean am yeah go ahead Kitty please unmute sorry um there are two things that I haven't heard discussed that um well there are a lot of things so many issues
but one is um has the town been contacted has the town done anything about the Eversource um plan to deforest parts of Buffam Falls. >> Mandy Joe, please respond.
>> Um, I I assume, Kitty, you're referring to the um the just the whole forest clearing of the main line all the way that Ever Source is talking about and sending out notices for. Is that correct? >> Yes. And by the way, and I have one other topic. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, there will be um a I'm looking up the date now. Um a community meeting that is being organized by Representative Dom's office um on that tree cutting proposal
um on April 14th in the town room. So, at 6:00 p.m., um I don't have much more information from that at this time. I believe we're trying to make it hybrid um so that
people can attend not by having to go to the town room, but it is on all of those notices people have been receiving with Eversource reps there and all. Um and Rep. Dom's office and Senator Kafford's office should be sending out more information as they get agendas. they're
the ones organizing it. So, as they get agendas fully set and which representatives are coming, I'm sure we'll have more information and and as I get more information about that, I will send that out to the counselors so that they can distribute it. But, but there
will be a community meeting on April 14th. Unfortunately, it is the same night as a school committee meeting. Um so hopefully it they have been working for 2 months to find a meeting time that the Eversource people could agree to. Um
we had actually hoped to have it in March and that didn't work out for Eversource. So um we did not know about the conflict when they gave us the date um until after we had the date and the room reserved. But April 14th, 6 p.m. at this time will be a meeting on that
issue. >> Thank you. Um my other question is um about is there a mech would there be a mechanism for revisiting the issue of whether community activity forms people wanting to be appointed to
committees and applying for that whether those forms can be open to the public. Um because I people have noted I think people you were asking people to join apply to be appointed to committees but people a lot
of people are very hesitant to do that because not because they don't want their names out there but because they feel um that the appointment process is has flaws and no one knows who who's applied to thing to committees and they
seem to be chosen for their often and for their um political opinions. >> Um let me just say and I'm again Amber was at the meeting and Mandy Joe was at the meeting. We just discussed this the other night. Uh and it was um a
discussion that presented both the viewpoint you're presenting and also the viewpoint that the um committee that helps encourage people to apply uh have been interested. and that is that sometimes people don't want their name
out there. And so the interesting thing that we face in Ammerst is that for all people who apply to committees that the town council directly appoints which is planning board, finance committee,
non-resident members, ZBA and any other special committees like charter review or bylaw review. When we when we appoint the person's calf is initially not public but once they submit their
statement of interest which is separate from the calf it's where they actually give us a much more background about you know themselves and why they'd like to be on a committee and the interviews are established those in those statements are in fact made public. So for when the
council is appointing our policy is to make it public but only once the statement of interest is um submitted. And even then I have to tell you just the other day for example we had four um applicants for initially for the finance
committee positions and one withdrew the night of the applica of the actual interviews. So, um, that happens. The town manager appointments, uh, we don't have a we don't have that as a policy at
this point. And I really encourage both Amber and Mandy Joe to chime in. I believe we did a referral on this one probably to go. >> I I was going to say we we talked about this on Monday and I was asking and Mandy Jones, you might have to repeat
your answer because I apologize. I was like, can we just put this to a vote of the council? Cuz I it wasn't clear to me where that kind of rule would live. Like it didn't seem like it would need to be in a charter, per se. And then I think we decided to refer it somewhere. But I was like, I would just like to take a vote on that as a council because I think we've heard arguments both ways
and I think that we should kind of just make a decision. But Mandy Joe, can you say where that got referred to? >> She's looking at her complicated list. You're you're >> you have to unmute. >> Sorry. This was one of the beyond the
charter suggestions, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Um we did not formally refer any of the beyond the charter suggestions last meeting. Um we just had a discussion of it and yes, Amber, you did you did mention that. Um what I am
planning to do for the April meeting is on some of the items we discussed. Haven't written the memo yet. haven't written the motion yet. Um, but for the ones we specifically discussed and maybe a few that had a that were a little more basic that might fall into some of those
categories or that had some very high consensus, draft a motion that will deal with a portion of the beyond the charter ones to recognize the discussions to formally take, as Amber was saying, say a referral to TSO on um
the calf issue, the um roles of committees issues that that councelor Ryan said he was already discussing that TSO was already discussing and stuff. Um, same with the finance on budget document details and stuff like that.
And then on the charter changes for the special acts that have been not being successful the last seven years um to to make a referral or a request to the town manager to get language from the town
attorney. So I'm hoping April 6th we'll have a formal motion to vote on on some of those issues we talked about to get them referred for formal discussion and potential rule changes. Um, and we'll see what the council does with that. But that's the plan is to not let
some of those that as we discuss them, bring them back at the next meeting for motions, not let them all sit until we get through everything. >> Thank you. Um, are there other issues or comments people want to bring up to the whole group? And then Amber, do you want
to proceed with breakouts? Um, and >> we can try it as an experiment and see what happens. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I think the idea part of the idea behind this is to give you guys a chance to interact with each other as well. >> And um you know, folks who uh choose not to participate, that's no problem with
that either. Um but um the idea is to introduce yourself. I'm going to put the instructions in the chat and then a couple discussion questions. Um what would you like to see improve in the town, in our district, and what would you like to see us do to address the issues and any action steps that you can
suggest? And um we'll give you like about I don't know let's say like maybe 8 minutes and then we'll bring you back for like closing follow-up steps, next steps and all that. Does that sound good? >> And we're going to do two groups, Amber, so that you and I can each be with a group.
>> Oh, are we okay? >> Or do you want to do three? >> Um let's do let's do um I actually have five, but I'm going to make I'm gonna um Yeah, we've already lost a few people.
Okay. All right. We're all set. So, folks should get an invitation to join. Um, and then, um, Mandy and Lynn, I'll send you I will just send you randomly to one or you can just join one.
Oh, here are see our group is now reunited in the big room. >> Hi, Lyn. So, people can return at any time. It's uh they have 60 seconds to return. So, I think people will be filtering back in. >> Um so, we have a few minutes to just um
to share real quickly things that we learned in our group. So, I have I have a couple things, but I'll wait till everyone's back. >> And I have two. >> Oh, great. Hi, Miss Pat. How are you? >> Hi, I'm doing well. Great meeting.
>> Yeah, >> Amber has brought all of her new technology to it, which I really appreciate. >> I really enjoy the breakout group function. Mary Claire. >> Welcome, Mary Cla. It's good to see you.
>> Thanks. Sorry I missed most of it, but figured I'd catch the end. >> Yeah, I had to >> had to quickly move you into a breakout group. Um, >> thank you. >> So, I I just wanted to highlight thank you to my group for um raising a couple issues. One of them was the um the
followup to the the fire at Olympia Place. Um, so some concerns around that, Lynn, that you and I can touch base with and also the ability to make it easier for small businesses to get licenses and start, especially like beyond restaurants in district 2. And I think that's a great idea. So, I don't know if
the other groups want to share just a quick tidbit before we sign off. Um so in my group uh the issue of rent control and the incredible cost of rent which is driving people out of town. Pat Onabaku
has now told me that she has 20 family members living in Ammerst and uh they're not all by the same last name, but nevertheless, uh but and also Liz Hood brought this up as an issue and she's got a lot of her grandchildren living in town, but can they afford to live here
and how and what can we do? And we talked about the fact that this is a state law. There is a state uh um question on the ballot coming up in November about this and the feelings about it are quite split but it does require a state law. Austin applied for
a special uh legislation and it was turned down. Uh the other one was how's another one was how was inspections and I mentioned that the council is hoping to receive a report sometime in the next couple of months on how the new um rental inspection law is going and the
other piece was um just in general housing and we talked Olympia Place came up at that point and um the other housing efforts that are going on in Ammerst and we talked about the opportunity that the Wildwood school site will present. to the town to have a
robust discussion about future. Okay. Who was the third group? >> I had a third group. I will answer a question. The rental registration presentation is slated for April 27th. >> Great.
>> So, I can answer that question. Um, we believe Rob Moore, our building commissioner, will have the report ready by the 15th. So, I don't know how it will get distributed early. Um, but if it's an April 27th meeting, it will be in a packet by the 23rd.
Hopefully, we can get it in and distributed out earlier than that, though. Um, our group, small but mighty, talked about um concern about the downtown design guidelines and whether they will with the hope that they will
produce housing because we need more housing and that the design guidelines will not sort of hamper the ability to produce housing. Um, the uh we had positive feedback on the breakout groups. So,
everyone seemed to like the breakout groups. Um, and cons and then just road design. Uh, good thing with the Amity roundabout that looking forward to having that roundabout. Um, but concern about the lining and the understanding
of the lining at Main Street and Amity and Pleasant Street. Um, I know I've seen it myself where cars are driving straight in the turn lanes because it's just a weird lining going on there. Um,
and so how do we make that intersection lining and understanding of where you're supposed to be driving clearer was the things we talked about. >> Great. And we think district two could actually
give some people some good hints about roundabouts. um given our experience. That's probably a good note to end on. Um please make sure if you are not on our mailing list that you contact us and let us know that you would like to be. Amber, give your
email address. >> Yeah, I'll put my email in the chat and then also we will send out a um the follow-up email with um all the links that we shared in this meeting as well >> and a and a um a taping of the meeting as well. Thank
you. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. And especially this you you led a great meeting. Thank you, Amber. From you and Andy. I just thought that Amber did a great job tonight. >> You did. We we welcome her to the district.
>> Actually, both of them >> to meet for a long time. I haven't met you. So, hi. >> Right. >> Thank you everybody. This is a great meeting. I really enjoyed it. >> Bye, Miss Pat. And again, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations, Miss Pat. I saw your honors. I'm sorry I wasn't there, but congratulations.
>> That's okay. Thank you. Good night, everyone. >> Take care. Night.