--------- All right. Okay. Thank you everybody. It is Monday, November 3rd, and we are uh kicking off the November reccomission meeting. Um first item on the agenda is approval of
minutes. Uh we we've got in here the September minutes. We'll actually be approving the October 20th minutes from just a couple weeks ago as we're as we're we're wrapping up some of those other minutes. So Jonah sent those out to everybody uh earlier this week. Um
hopefully everyone had a chance to review them. Can I I get a motion to approve those? >> I approve them. >> All right, Chris. And then a second. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you, Matt. All right. Any
discussion on those uh minutes? No. >> All right, then. All in favor? >> I I >> All right. Time to All right. The minutes pass. Okay. Uh next up, we have
public comment. I see we do have a couple of attendees in the list. Uh would love to hear from any members of the public who want to make any comments that are unrelated to items that are on the agenda. Um and so if you would like to make a
comment on one of those items, but please do otherwise you'll have an opportunity to comment when we present um those topics. So if you are interested, just raise your hand and we'll open the floor. Okay, I don't see anybody raising their
hand. Next up would be Cherry Hill. Ray, that is uh for you to get us started on. May I request that we flip the order here because the the people in attendance are here for the CPA project discussion.
Um they can certainly stay for as much as they want to, but I >> that works. All right. So, we're going to shift over. We'll do CPA project discussion. Then we'll do Cherry Hill. Then we'll do old business, new business. All right. Ray actually Ray
and Amy. Floor is yours. >> Okay. Um, I guess I wanted to put first this came on the agenda in two different phases. Uh, number one, first of all, it was it was an opportunity for uh Amy and I to
answer any lingering questions that might be there about our two uh recreation proposals for CPA. One being the war memorial renovation and the other being pickle ball. Um um we certainly don't have we we're we're it's
been two weeks and that's not a long time to get ourselves you know massive new information but if there are any lingering questions we can try and uh uh we can try and we can try and answer those. The second part of that CPA project discussion is I also had a
chance to follow up as I mentioned here when we went over we had the experience a couple weeks ago where the third recreation proposal was sort of presented to us in real time by Jonas u uh and we heard about the skate park
proposal and uh Amy and I u u made an attempt at that point to try and answer a little bit of what we what we thought with that we did reach out uh Amy Dave and I met since then and we we uh we
discussed getting some information from you know reaching out and connecting to the the uh skate park folks. It's it is citizens that are presenting the the uh uh uh the proposal and are not knowing as much. It's not our project. Uh it is
you all are the reccomission and of course that is that's a the uh resident proposals have just as much uh merit for for you all as as our departmental proposals. But just as I was the same
day I was planning on reaching out to skate park folks, Aubrey Tenant who who submitted the proposal reached out to me just to touch base and and to talk about the their proposal. We spoke a little bit and I did invite him. I think it's the appropriate thing for us to have
them present their own proposal to you all just in case there's any questions you have for them. So I say first if there are any questions about war or or uh pickle ball um please raise your
hand. Ray, I the only thing I I had a question on is just if we've got the are the materials available for us. I think that um because I folks may remember I had to drop off at the the middle of last meeting. So I've got the minutes and I
know they were talked about, but is there is there some documentation that shows the plan? I'm curious, especially on the pickle ball location, but um I don't know if that's just a public CPA site, but u if we could get those
just circulated to the committee, that would be fantastic. >> Yeah, as you're saying this, I'm trying to call up the CPA site. Jonah, you might be able to beat me to it. But >> yeah, I can share share screen or share the file. Which
should share screen, Andrew? I'm I'm putting it on right now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I'd love to have the the the materials afterwards just to review. Um but yeah, I think let's if we have it handy, let's pull it up. I don't want to
sidetrack us too much on it, but um we'd love to get a quick look and then then we can hand it over to the uh skate park. Right. So, >> why why don't we do the skate park? Why don't we do the skate park while while
we're finding that stuff? Just just for uh >> Yeah, I mean Ray, I have this stuff, but I don't know if you have the ability to share screen. >> I just I think I just made it >> available. Yeah, multiple participants. So, share screen is on.
>> Okay. Um there we go. Okay. So we are going to show this screen share you guys are seeing that. So this is the whole proposal which on the CPA site but I think what you're looking this is what
you were looking for correct is just the the general layout and this is I mean because this isn't like a 100% design um but it shows the intent of where it's going to go. Um the schematic that I had to use
when we were putting this in um does show the construction access path. So the, you know, the construction access that we'd have to build from Mil Lane. What it isn't showing on this, but I want to kind of talk about is, you know, obviously this also isn't going to
include, um, access coming from the like the facilities, you know, the comfort station, the playground, um, splash pad area. Um, that does have to be ADA accessible. We just haven't 100% designed that. And so we didn't want to
show something that might be very different. Um especially given the slope. It's going to take a little bit to kind of design that in. But >> yeah, and that was that was sort of >> but this gives at least a general idea of where we're looking at. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you
for sharing this. The uh that ADA access was a was the item that was tripping me up because I I feel like when we've talked about projects in the past in Grath Park, that was like an exorbitant cost to be able to do that. And it looks like you're I don't see a scale on this. I guess at the bottom you're you're a
good couple hundred feet of of uh ADA access to there. >> Um >> I mean some of it too with the ADA access if you recall we got funds this year through CPA to do a survey of the entire Grath park site. And now granted
it's it's the intent of it was looking at getting ADA access down to the pavilion, but the silver lining of it is that it will actually give us much more detail in this area. And so we can also use that to design where right now all we have is
kind of the GIS mapping um >> to to design and so we would have to kind of tweak it a little bit anyway. So um so that information is forthcoming. >> Okay. I guess is this a situation where the money that we have allocated like could we actually afford just ballpark
in this location right here do you think that the CPA funds would be enough if we got more to be able to complete the project with what's >> I'm going to flip to the next page which shows you this is the estimate and again you know there's there's some roughness
and some contingency built into these numbers because we don't know the exact but we did decide side. At one point, we were looking at do we submit for some of the cost but not all of the costs, but the construction is going to happen all at once. And so we didn't we just while
it's a higher number than we want, we at least wanted to kind of put in for all of it. Um so we're putting in for enough that should be able to get us the pickle ball courts in that site >> and and the access. Okay. and the access and all of that, you know, and I I you
know, I will be clear that if we're a little overestimating here, then, you know, it might be a conversation of can we put a fourth pickle ball court there or you know what I'm saying? Like that's where um I think the barrier of cost with the ADA access and the the
construction access are the bigger pieces. And so it, you know, we may be able to get another another court out there, you know, depending on how costs come in. >> Okay, that would be fantastic. All right,
>> thank you for Yeah, this helps me a lot. >> Are there any questions before I take this down? >> Not a question, but a comment. The the sound attenuation is built in. I think that's kind of key. >> Yeah. >> Do we need the sound attenuation though if it's that far off in Mil Lane?
>> So, I'll I'll say a couple things about that. I mean, one is that, you know, Rey is is actively working with our purchasing department, our procurement department right now to get a sound study, so we'll know these this a little better, but we again, we didn't want that the lack of having funding for that
to be the thing that caused this project to not happen. Um, but what you can't see on this, you know, the nearest houses, we have houses across the road, and there is one house that's right on the other side of this tree belt that's on the same side of the road as Mill.
Um, I think we measured from this rough location. Again, this is just a rough location, but we measured from here to the back of their property line and it's like I think it's about 585 ft and 600 ft is kind of that guideline that the
people at Quantis were talking about. So, that property is ever so slightly within that. And some of it might just come down to whether the pickle ball courts go here or whether they go a little closer, you know, like some of that we might >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um the houses across the road are
outside of that 600 ft. But the sound study, you know, it's going to tell us if you know how big of an issue that might be or how much we might have to do to try to alleviate some of the sounds at the neighbors. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, my thought is if if
if we're budging for the noise attenuation and it's effective, then like why not look at Kuanas again and save on some of this other access, right? I mean, it it just I know that was the that was really the the death nail of that proposal. It's just we, you
know, that the abuing tenant or budding land owners who >> were too close. But >> I mean, in that case though, I think again like I'm not an expert. They presented a lot of information. They did a lot of research on the sound. Um, my understanding was that within I think
it's I don't know if it's within 400 feet or 200 feet, but there was a certain radius that if you were within that, even with sound attenuation, >> yeah, >> you might be asking for um, you know, a a nuisance that neighbors are really not going to be accepting of. Um, and 600 ft
is that barrier at least, you know, based on their research that, um, you may not need it or you might only need a little bit of sound attenuation to alleviate um, what people can reasonably expect. So, um,
>> and not for nothing, the, uh, uh, Kuanas, the near neighbor in that case, was inside of 200 feet. >> 200. Yeah. >> Yeah. That that neighbor was really close. So >> yeah. Yeah. No, I mean this just this location is
>> I mean you're you're going to be walking four or 500 feet from the parking lot and that you know that parking lot fills up >> on a nice day that parking lot fills up in which case you're >> you're parking on that sort of single lane almost that leads in. In which case
you might be walking seven or 800 feet for pickle ball where you don't even know if the courts are occupied. >> Right. I know that's one of the things that that when I used to do some some tennis in my days, I would, you know, you could drive by and get a sense of whether the courts were available. You
wouldn't really be able to do that in this arrangement, which presents a nuisance for those players who have a long walk ahead to figure out whether they could even get on. >> And you mean if they're parking in the in the parking lot in the existing parking lot, they won't know what's if
there's ports. Yeah, that I mean because from my experience that existing parking lot again on a nice day fills up and you are you know it's not uncommon for the parking to go all the way back towards Mil Lane and then you've got a long hike
to get over to those to those >> I think though well if there's if there's sound attenuation meaning like some kind of blankets or something that might be an issue but like if they're open you might even have line of sight to Right. >> Yeah.
>> Like >> you can see those chords from the road depending on what the what the attenuation >> I didn't I wouldn't think that you could just because it it plateaus up there, right? I mean you you go up and then it plateaus. I I sort of I thought that it
kind of drops out of your sight line if you're in the main parking area. >> I also hear it though. >> Yeah, I think you would see it. I think what they're saying is along the lane if you're driving in. So, it might depend on which direction you're approaching it >> because you're right. If you're coming
in from like Route 116 and then coming in, you might not see it, but um >> yeah, >> there you go. >> Okay, >> Sanjay here. It's all right, Ray. >> Yes. >> Um are the pickle ball people happy with
this solution? >> They are excited as far as I can tell. We when we did our our community u sort of conversation at Grath and we took the uh took the pin out of it and
said graph is our location. Bunch of the pickle ball community came over and they expressed they they expressed number one a a lobby the power of a lobby to to try and convince anybody who wasn't convinced that pickle ball is worth it that it's worth it. And they also seem
to like the space where we were. That's great. I thank you, Ray. And in that case, I congratulate you and Amy and all the other people involved in solving this problem. And I and I am a I am a full speed ahead
supporter of the plan. >> Now, we just have to cross our fingers because unfortunately, the reason that this wasn't a location that we brought forward a couple years ago was really about the cost barrier. And so, you know, that is still a a barrier that we
have to try to work through. But, um, you know, the more people that support it, the more likelihood um or the more likely that that hopefully this this is successful. >> Yeah. And and frankly, like um supporting getting support for a more expensive option, you make you have a
more credible position when you've tried the less expensive options. and the Kuanas field. It's the Kuanas solution was never going to be acceptable. >> Yeah. >> So I I congratulate you on finding a solution and we should go full speed ahead on it.
>> Great. >> Thank you, S. >> Any other comments on either Amy, were you >> No, I was just going to say like I can stop sharing if we're good with this, but I didn't know if anybody else had any other comments or things they wanted to see in this.
>> We're good. I think we're good. Thank you. >> Okay. Um >> All right. >> If you are okay with it, I can bring in the skate park.
>> Love it. Let's do it. So, so coming on right now is Aubrey Tennant. Welcome, Aubrey. Uh, Aubrey, you met me. I'm Ray Harp, the director of recreation. Uh, Jonas Cox is the representative for CPAC from the rec
commission. Andy McDougall is the is the chair of the rec commission. And Amy Rouski, by the way, is our uh assistant director. Amy is the assistant director of DPW. Uh Sanjay, Chris, and Matt are all members of the rec commission. Our
lieutenant. >> Hey, everyone. Uh thanks a lot, Ry. Um yeah, it's really great uh seeing you all do this. um a lot of we're very honored to be here and um and collaborate with the rec commission, you
know, like just about recreation and and you know, seeing so many crazy trillion dollar companies um investing more money into competing for our attention on screens, it's like uh physical
recreation um almost a rebellious act nowadays. So, um it's it's really uh exciting for me to to um and us to be um collaborating with y'all. So, thank you. Um so, I was just going to introduce ourselves um really quickly, do a
summary of of the proposal as we have it and and that's essentially it um for today. I can share the proposal if you haven't all seen it. >> Yeah, Aubrey, I would love to see that if you don't mind. Um Ray, can we enable sharing for Aubrey or do you have it to pull up? >> It's still on. It's still on. So,
Aubrey, you can share. >> Yeah. All right. Let me just open it up here. >> One moment. All right. So, this is the pro. Can you'all see this? It's coming in right now. >> Got it. >> Awesome.
>> Um, okay. So, just about a little bit about who we are. All Wheels Amoris is a group that we call ourselves. We're a group of Amoris residents, parents, educators as business owners. We're we're small right now working on growing. Um, and our mission is to raise awareness and advocate for uh
skateboarders, scooter riders, BMX, bikers, wheelchair users, anyone engaged in alternative recreation. Um you know we've um much of the group currently are skateboarders. We feel that um right now
uh the this group of um alternative recreation is is under reppresented in Amorest right now. And I I I don't I don't imagine that's a surprise for you all. Um, you know, I I know you're all fighting various fights along the way to
try to increase um physical recreation across the board, but we wanted to come in and advocate for um youth and um who don't identify with traditional team sports. Uh very very um probably the least representative in civic
discussions. Um don't usually attend public meetings. Um, so that's sort of who we're trying to advocate for and push forward. And, um, you know, the fact that there's currently, as far as I know, uh, no, um, skate park, pump
track, BMX course in in Amoris, I think it's, um, high time that we start pushing for one. And that's, um, what we're really behind and what we're we're trying to do. Uh, we think the highest return on investment for trying to create one of these is is an all wheels park or a skate park. um right now and
and that's what um this proposal is about. So um with this proposal um I won't go through all of it. Um I'll leave it for you to read. A lot of it is sort of the mission
and context. Um some information and education on on why um all wheel parks are such a good idea. uh the benefits um that they offer communities. Uh how much progress has been made over the years in
in creating well-designed um accessible all-wheels parks and um and some some uh community um uh input on on there as well.
I added this when we were putting it together. I've recently learned that this is sort of a previous um um plan that um has has evolved uh since there. So, I just wanted to say and it mentions it in the plan that we're not committed
to any single location yet. Our priority is collaboration, finding the site that best aligns with the community needs and sort of like the long-term recreation vision vision of that. So, um, yeah, that, you know, this is on here. The, um, war memorial is still, I think
it's a great place to put it. Obviously, there's a lot that needs to happen still before, um, it can be considered in a much more serious respect. >> I'm sorry. Do you may just be missing it. Do you envision it on this plan right now?
No, I mean it was Yeah, it was essentially this is this plan uh and I mentioned it in text here sort of fitting in somewhere on this plan perhaps because I wasn't sure where this plan was when I we were building this. So >> yeah. >> Um >> yeah, one of the reasons why it's great
for us to be working with the rec commission and talking to talking to Ray already was uh very eye opening to where things are at right now. Um so quick summary. Um when we were coming up with some of these initial designs,
these are built to be around the footprint of a single basketball court. So pretty compact. We were looking at uh war memorial and the the old basketball court that was sitting there when we were um designing uh this. But obviously this is early preliminary. There'd be
much more that needs to happen. Um so to summarize phase one and this is what we the um CPA proposal was for was a um uh a one $101,200 um um funding for uh community
engagement outreach input sessions site identification and evaluation geotechnical environmental studies city departmental permitting review with storm water design development through final design. And so we'll have a final design construction documents
essentially be shovel ready and you know ideally optimistically 2027 um would would be awesome and yeah you know obviously you know that's that's that's a goal right now about where it's at and and phase two and this was a question
that CPA had had answer asked us so we answered it back. So, what was the what was the the cost of phase 2 minus this cost of phase one and um ballpark and we ballparked it around $450 to $500,000 for um for that phase 2 building cost
which we would be supported through CPA funds plus grants and partnerships and other funding as well. >> Wait, so what's the 636 39288 number then? That was a uh a preliminary um
um estimate that we got from um a um an engineering uh company that had worked on the uh has been involved in various all-wheels parks um not notably the Springfield one. So we we got an
early one just to find out. So it's around that amount 100,000 plus around 500,000. So maybe a little bit more than that, but obviously so early that that's all in ballpark. >> Got it. >> Um so yeah, that that's what the
proposal is for. Um we've got um yeah, those are those are the details, some some next steps for the project. Um and we've got a we've got a resident survey up. Right now, what we're planning on doing is um
making some updates to this, sharing this out, starting to to um get more community um awareness for the project and and getting feedback from the community about um what people want out of a skate park. So,
yeah, we're we're excited to work with y'all in the rec committee uh and the town. Um, so if anybody has questions, uh, info, ideas, concerns, uh, or or want to help spread the word, please do so. Um, so thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Appreciate it. >> I got a couple of quick questions here off the top of my Do you have a sense of the size of the user community here? >> Um, no. That's something that I looked into. We haven't looked into yet. However, we do have um um there's pretty
good models out there for taking the the size of the community and um and determining this the size of the skate park that that we would need. So, >> okay, >> once we know that >> have you l I'm just I don't know, you
know, is this is this for like a hundred people or 500 people or a thousand like do you have just any sense yet? >> It would be busy. Uh, all-wheel parks are typically the busiest recreation facilities in the town. Uh, it's that's the the Springfield one right now is the
busiest one in the town. So, um, it would be a pretty large um uh pretty large demand for this. >> Okay. Uh, I didn't see who came up first, but Jonas and Matt. Jonas, you want to start us?
>> Yeah, sure. Thanks, Aubrey, for uh, presenting. Uh, have you obviously a prerequisite for this is pavement. Have you looked at existing pavement that may be underutilized in Ammerst or will be in the future? I'm thinking
like Wildwood School. Um, a lot of pavement there. Um, could that be maybe retrofitted and presumably saving money and also not paving unnecessarily? >> Yeah, absolutely. Um,
are you are you suggesting location there or sort of um reclaiming that that those materials? >> Oh, for No, no, no. Like locating there. Um Oh, no. I don't know that you can. >> Yeah, I don't lever up um I've tried to rip out
sidewalk before, but um um I don't think you could reuse it. Um no, I was thinking with it I think it's still up in the air. What's going to happen to Wildwood with um things moving over to Fort River? So, just >> that's that's interesting. No, I I think I think what we'd like to do is pick
three or so locations and really sort of dig into the communities surrounding those locations and and find out if this is something that they would be okay with and what kind of stuff they'd be looking for. So I that that's interesting. That's the first I've heard of Waldwood. >> Thanks J. Matt.
>> Yeah, I had a few questions. Firstly, um Ry, did you mention some time ago that you spoke to some people interested in a pump track? >> Yes. So, have you put them in Audrey in Aubrey in touch with them? >> I just made a note for myself here to
connect them connect those two groups. I haven't talked to the pump track folks in a little bit of uh in a little while. I mentioned it to Aubrey when we spoke last week uh that that we I did u start having a conversation about a pump track, but there is obviously some
overlap there that Aubrey I'd be happy to connect you with with them because it could be very very similar uh uh advocacy >> is that? >> Yeah. I don't know how far they got though. >> Matt, is that Ian Camera? Samantha's camera,
right? He's into it. Who? What? >> Ian Ian Camera is he >> I remember the name. Yes, it was. Uh >> that's I thought that was maybe Matt who Matt was referring to. >> I I I believe so. I I I remember the
name. Um there are a couple people. Kurt Bowman is the one I spoke to um the most on it. Um but I can I can certainly put them in in contact with each other. I think there is some similar advocacy energy.
>> Yeah. And then for Aubrey, um I'm sort of interested firstly in sort of comparables. You mentioned Springfield. I know there's some other um similar facilities in the area. Um what's like the near is there one in Northampton?
>> Yeah, there's a park in Northampton as well. >> And um Right. So Northampton was obviously a very direct comparison. So, in terms of size, location, use usage, um what can you can you just speak to that for like
a minute or so for Northampton? >> Um yeah, I think and uh it's worth noting too that East Hampton uh had a park approved and is in the the um design phase of of a new park uh as well. Um
yeah, I think Northampton is um it's a really great park. Um, but there's there's learnings along the way and and uh I think that was built um I want to say at least 10 years ago. Um,
a lot has been learned about designing skate parks since then. Um, especially about accessibility and sort of some of the features that are on a skate park. Um, typically the user base on a skate park are are kids on scooters. You'll see a ton of kids on scooters and on
bikes. the bowl, which is the main feature of the Northampton, is is pretty inaccessible to those those um users. Um so, typically when when you're starting a park, you're starting with something that's a little bit um um less of that. And then if if the if the um user base
is big enough, you can add add a uh something like a bowl on um you know, and a bull and a pump tracker are, you know, similar features to something like an all wheels park. um both obviously different functions um different results but um yeah I think that's that's sort
of how we see Northampton skatepark and also the location um is an interesting factor too the more uh skate parks are um visible um to to more of the public the the the better they're kept um the
less graffiti they have um the more they're self self um maintained so um the northampton one is a little tucked away and because of that you'll see some of those um effects. >> Yeah. How close do you think it can be
to residential houses? >> I think pretty close. Um soundwise um a good comparison is a basketball court. Um you know they're very similar soundwise and and you know a well-built park um is
is more quiet as well. Right. >> If if that's the that's the the factor you're talking about is sound. >> Uh well, I guess that's that's one that comes to mind after all the whole pickle ball epic that we've been through over
the last five or six years. Um >> heard about that. >> Uh yeah, some of the locations you're probably considering are a little bit up in the air, like with the war memorial area. um uh which is town property, the
the community field there. Um sort of south of the pool is an area that um in the most recent sort of draft plan I think Amy was there some kind of similar facility in there.
>> Yeah. I mean >> but anyway >> I'm assuming what you're talking about so like Yeah. next to the pool, between the pool and triangle street in that space is the space that kind of has yet to be defined and there have been a lot of different thoughts and ideas on how
to engage that area. >> Um, and a pump track was one of the ideas that, you know, has been part of that conversation. So, >> yeah, but that's kind of up in the air because we don't really know what's happening with War Memorial Pool. Um
>> yeah I mean yeah that's the elephant in the room that you know until we know what is happening with the pool house you know >> you don't know what's happening with the rest of the space >> right >> in a similar similar situation.
>> Yeah. Is there a sense though that they could be colllocated though a pump track in the skatepark? >> That's colllocated as in like close to each other. Yeah. I mean, like I'm not sure the you know, I know you're not here about a pump track, but just I'm
wondering if with the people on the call here, do we have a sense how much space because I imagine that this skate park can it's got to be centrally located, right? Because I imagine certainly the BMX folks or cyclists who are going to want to cycle to it to use it.
>> Yes. Um >> many of them at least. >> And a and a pump track near a skate park's awesome like uh Yeah, absolutely. very similar, you know, crossover in users for sure. >> Yeah. I mean, I would I would say for for your CPA presentation, I would
definitely want to try to get a much better sense of the user community. Like again, the size of it um because it's it's it's a big ticket item that you have here. Um and one that probably would do best in some of again our our
most prized real estate for for Wreck today. You know, I think we need to, again, I'm not on the CPA. It's up to them to decide, but I I would certainly want to to be able to make an informed decision, have that sense, and then as a rec
commission, I would want us to have a sense of what that looks like as well. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, I I'm I'm fully confident that it'll it'll be a large a large group, but yeah, more more um I'd love to to dig in and get some some really hard data on that.
>> And and then the only other question I had, and this is, you know, I I don't want to sound naive, I'm certainly aware of, I mean, having skateboarding a little bit earlier in my life, is I'm sure there's some folks who have concerns, might have concerns around
safety. like how is like how are we positioned to that knowing that some of the some of the items you might find in skatepark could be a little bit more higher risk depending on you know a user's risk tolerance like is this is this an area that might be you know that
we might be looking at uh a higher degree of injury that the town might be liable for or on the hook for. >> There's there's been a lot of research on that and it's it's actually the opposite. safe parks are um one of the safest recreation activities even
compared to soccer, basketball. Um yeah, the the it's it's pretty clear it's a pretty safe sport. Um well welldesigned parks are are part of that. Um but a a a skate park um encourages use of helmets,
pads um and safety equipment where currently where people are skateboarding around UMass, you know, that's not encouraged. It's not part of the culture as much. It's encouraged just through seeing other people using it. I mean, it's not it's not supervised obviously, right? It's just
>> Yeah, it's it's a more of a cultural thing. People in parks wear pads. I'm fully padded up, fully helmeted up. Um it's um it's a it's a common thing. Not everybody does. Um but even those who aren't wearing pads, it's it's the the
data is showing that it's safe. And I can I can share some of these things too if you're all interested. Um, definitely good stuff out there. >> Yeah, I I would think that it's safer to skate in a skate park than to skate like somewhere else. >> For sure. Yeah.
>> But then it just in relative terms, I 100% agree with that. But from a town's perspective, would they be better off having a basketball court or a skate park from a safety perspective? And again, I'm not casting any judgments. I just think it's something that, you know, you should you should be prepared
to answer those questions and, you know, I think it'd be good for this committee to to hear that as well. >> 100%. Yeah. I'll make sure that I uh have some some links to to this data that I'm talking about. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's a lot of money that you're asking for, right? So like you you'll need to have a very
compelling case to say why why this makes more sense over the other you know whatever counter 20 pro I don't know how many projects are in this this year's bucket but >> a bunch so all right any uh any other questions for
>> just real quick I might have misunderstood what is the actual request amount is it for the full amount for phase one and phase two is or is it just for the planning and scoping exercise >> the pro proposal was for phase one roughly $100,000.
>> So is that the amount Andy when you're describing it as a large amount of money that you were thinking of? >> No, I was talking about the full amount, right? Because I think there's a scope. Yeah. Yeah. So I think in aggregate like if we're going to go down the road of phase one, that's hope presumably that's
with the expectation that we would also do phase two, right? >> I don't know about that. I mean, >> well, I mean, I think you would only want to spend the money with the expectation that you would do it, right? >> Or have some better. >> I don't think I don't really think of
planning and scoping exercises as being that. Um, I mean, the town spends a lot of money on studies and consultants for lots of stuff, some of which happens and some of which doesn't. So, I actually quite appreciate the way Aubrey
has presented a phased proposal here. >> Um, >> I do too. Yeah. >> And I don't think that to fund a study of an activity uh presumes completion of construction. Otherwise, we would he would just ask for 700,000, right?
>> But I think what Andrew is saying maybe is let's have more definition around what it could be before. >> So that's that's fine, Jonas. I I agree with that. I agree with many of the requests for sort of more detail. Um, but I think we should be clear that
Aubrey is not asking, not Aubrey, you know, Aubryy's not the one asking, right? The proposal is not for $700,000. >> Yes. >> It's for $100,000. >> Yep. >> Which is well within the realm of normal for CPA requests. >> Yeah. No, that's very good
clarification, Sanjay. Thank you. >> All right. >> I Yeah, sorry. I know I'm not on the committee, but I just kind of two things that I wanted to throw in. So, one just kind of Aubrey as you're looking at spaces and that war memorial area, you
know, very savvy to pick that out. Um, I I more just wanted you to like know that a lot of the conversation about how to use that space was really looking at ways to engage the students that are right there and have a space. And so, I think that's kind of good information
for you to tuck away in your brain um and kind of use that as you will. Um, and then I also just kind of for everyone on the committee, um, unintentionally, you know, we redid the North Common there. Um, there's a lot of
people there's there's a couple of features in there that are intended for people to be sitting and eating, and I know there's a lot of people that are skateboarding on it. We see the evidence of it. You whatever. They're they're using the space. We're we're okay with it. Um, but I guess it was one of those surprising elements where that wasn't
what it was intended for, but we're actually seeing a lot of use um of people skateboarding. So, it just it just shows me that there is actually people looking for spaces and using whatever they can. Um, so I think I don't know that was just surprising to me. So, again, use it as you will, but
>> the plight of the skateboarder, right? >> Yeah, exactly. They were looking for a place and North Common gave them a place apparently. So, uh s surprising um byproduct of that project. Sanjay. >> Yeah. Um I'm gonna come back to my earlier point and Audrey, I want to say
that I really appreciate that this is a citizen initiated proposal to CPA. Um I uh without sounding trying not to sound negative towards Amy and Rey and the town and commission um I have observed
that the that many of the CPA dollars are expended on town initiated projects and uh so I'm really appreciative of the fact that this is a citizen initiated project and then to come back to my point about a planning phase I'll point
out that for a town initiated project. The town has many resources available to itself to answer the kinds of questions that people are posing to Aubrey, but Aubrey has only volunteer resources available to try to answer those questions. And so I think it's
particularly appropriate for a citizen initiated project to request a phase one funding for a phase one type of study. And I would and I would like to have that entered in the record as they say.
Not good. >> I mean, can I add to that though? Like I 100% agree, Sanjay. But I will say like I think that's the value of say Aubrey coming to this committee and asking because if this committee were to say
this is something that we support and we know there's a community that supports then at least some of the research like that's on Ry and myself. Sorry to throw you under the bus Ray, but like that's on Ry and myself. Can we do some of the leg work? If this is something that the town thinks is valuable,
we can lend some of that those resources that we have to towards initiatives. Um, you know, so some of that is just bringing it to the committee, getting the support of this committee um and and members of the community to say we think
it's, you know, much like with pickle ball, how much time have I spent on pickle ball? the community has said this is important and so you know Ry and myself and Dave Zomac have put a lot of time and resources behind it. If the town says the same about um a skate park
you know then that's that's on us to help you know support it and help as much as we can to serve you guys. So >> good thanks Amy and I'm sure that Aubrey's happy to hear that. >> Yes. What I I'll also just say Aubrey Hugh and then anyone else who's listening is like,
>> you know, we we can advocate for for interest and projects that we're aware of and we're looking for for feedback from the town. So, it's it's very much appreciated for those to come to us so that, you know, we understand what those needs are, right? Um because we kind of
work with who's, you know, what's on the agenda, who who asks to present. And so, um, this has been eye opening for me because I was not aware of sort of this this ground swell or this this community that's in in desire of this space. So,
makes total sense. But again, you know, less less for you, but for anyone else who has uh interest, please come forward to the to the committee. We'd be happy to have you join a call to talk through any ideas that you have. That's what we're here for. We're we're here to
serve on behalf of citizens. So, thank you. >> All right. Any any other questions for Aubrey? All right. Thank you very much for uh for coming presenting to us. It was very informative and good luck. >> Thank you everyone. >> Good luck. >> It was an honor. I've also got some uh
resources too on on skate parks and some studies. There's there's actually somebody's did a master's thesis on skateboarding at UMass which I can share as well. Um thank you very much. >> All right. Have a great night. >> Thank you. Bye. All right. Um, actually, and I should
have asked before, do we have any other attendees that were those two? Actually, wait, did Chris Oh, Chris is >> Sorry, I just accidentally >> I My fault. I just accidentally pushed
Chris out to the one moment. Technical difficulties. I apologize. Chris, >> you just demoted him. I >> our Chris or >> Yeah, our Chris. >> Yeah, >> it looks like the other people that were in the audience were all people that
were listed on that skate park proposal. So, I think they were all here for that. >> Yeah, I think they're all gone now. So, all right. Well, I apologize for folks for not asking for other comment, but I think we I think we got the message. >> Um should be coming back now.
>> Okay. should be >> a second there. Oh, >> do you are you pulling him over? >> Um, I'm trying. >> I would just leave and go. I'd be so sensitive. I'd be I'd be hurt and I
wouldn't come back. I'd be I think Chris maybe has thicker skin than I We'll see. >> We've got qu anyway, right? I >> bet we want Chris. Um, okay. It would be good to have Chris
for the update. All right. So, going back on the agenda. So, Cherry Hill Ray, you want to lead us? And then Sanjay, Chris, um, obviously looking for for your thoughts and input as well.
>> I'm back, right? You can hear me now? >> Yeah. Yeah. Chris, I apologize. That was my mistake. >> Sorry, Ray. I know you wanted to get rid of me right before Cherry Hill. sent you to purgatory. Um, okay. Well, u I I wanted to just
give an update. Right now, we are now as of today moving into the hibernation season at Cherry Hill. Um, so, uh, the update for us in terms of programming is is pretty consistent with prior
practices. Uh we we set at the end of the season, we set the uh daylight savings time as the closing date for a few reasons. Um u in terms of the money that we're making during the week and and in terms of uh the short hours,
frost in the morning uh and and then short hours in the evening, it becomes harder for us to cover cost. And so we've we've pretty consistently closed golf operations on this past weekend. This was our last
weekend this weekend. Um we have our our disc golf uh uh consultant that comes in and sets up. He's coming in later on this week to to basically spend a day and put our disc golf targets back out. Uh, and so, so that hibernation season,
I say hibernation hopefully as a as sort of a a statement of irony, but but the we're we're bringing disc golf back out starting hopefully by next weekend and having the targets back out. Um,
slight change the the course will be very similar to what it was last year. There's a slight change to try and avoid the overlap where there's there's one maybe two, but there's one space that that was a pressure point in the overlap with Nordic skiing. And so we've tried
to we try to create less of a of a sort of seasonal overlap uh issue with with that. Um at the same time, we are also, you know, it it's this has been much more a part of us for a long time. Nordic has been a a part of that
hibernation fingerprint out there for some time and John Quelloo is is prepared to again commit our resources to grooming and maintaining those trails for the winter time. We had a little bit of snow last year for the first time in
in a little while. We had a a period of time over the course of the winter where we did have uh groomable trails. Nordic was was grateful as they always are for the for the space. Um
you know and and this being what we call year zero for disc golf. This was last year was year zero for disc golf where we try to see let's put it out there see how they how they coexist. See what the programming looks like um in the space. See where the pressure points are. if if
if they're disc golfers or Nordic skiers that have concerns about the other one or about about our about their access, what have you. Um, you know, we took our notes and now we we in in in general, we
would like it to be that if there's snow for skiing that disc golf isn't out there. We found that disc golfers are are pretty intent. If they can get out there and play, they'll get out there and play. Maybe not a lot of them, but it's an open space for them to go out and play. If there's a if if there isn't a lot of snow, then this go I mean,
Nordic skiing has a harder time using the space if there isn't. Uh obviously, uh ski trails and groomed. Um but but we'll be watching that in this being year one here now. We'll be watching that a little bit closely.
This year we are also trying to for the sake of both of those two ventures, Jose Allen and I have been brainstorming for the last couple weeks >> and beyond, but but really trying to figure out for the last couple weeks about about trying to find ways to to
turn that clubhouse, small clubhouse, not a lot of amenities there, but turn that into a little bit of a North Ammerst uh uh community center. uh doing some program doing some some uh children's programming up there. Uh
doing some uh games nights up there. Uh uh we have we've begun conversations with the Jones Library who is in need of space for their programming about having some days where we can offer them to come out and do some things in the
Cherry Hill Clubhouse. Uh this is for uh uh youth programming and at the same time it also allows us to have somebody provide access maybe sell some concessions to provide access for both disc golf and Nordic skiing to use the
clubhouse also. And so it's not entirely we aren't we aren't going to be open like the golf season where we're open seven days a week. Um but we can offer some times where we'll be we'll be there and open. We're we're working out the kinks of how to do that. Notably, what u
you know our our figuring out our our the cost of maintenance. It's a smaller cost here, but if you have the cost of maintenance for the bathrooms, for the for the uh clubhouse, we it's built into the Cherry Hill clubhouse attendance uh jobs. And
so if we do this, then we just have to be prepared to to pick up the small costs that are there also. But uh um the the intent here this year is to try and see if we can't take all these different pieces of our programming world and put
them in closer like jigsaw them a little bit and have them have them uh support each other have them have them work with and support each other a little bit. uh uh goal intent. Uh we are, you know,
certainly certainly the opportunity to to sell some some uh snacks, merchandise if we if we can. This it is the perfect time to start talking about that with disc golf because we're looking for investment. We'll we'll be able to put up uh some donation. Nordic skiing has
been very familiar in the past with with uh being asked to contribute and to put in this gives a more formal way of doing that and disc golf we think is certainly the time is right now because because we are investing in them in a way that I
think they're all appreciative and they know also. So, it's a chance for us to try and uh build some revenue into Cherry Hill in the offseason, which as we all know, Cherry Hill is desperately looking for and looking at uh the working group will be looking at that that process here about how we build
revenue in spaces that aren't necessarily just golf. >> Quick couple of questions here, Ray. Um so, actually the same one that I had for Aubrey. when do you have a sense in year zero I I guess how many people are using
the disc golf and the Nordic presuming we actually have snow do we do we are we able to size that >> we haven't had a count that one of the things that I wanted to put Jose out there he'll if if he's attending uh or if we have a staff member out there
attending the the the space we'd like to be able to do these uh sort of sort of snapshot uh head counts out there looking at looking at uh good weather, bad weather, looking at times of day, but we would
like to be able to be able to monitor a little bit more. We don't have a headcount. We don't have uh traffic out there. Maybe Sanjay, do you all have any any means of counting? >> Yeah, I I think I can give an idea of what we're talking about for skiing. Um
when the Ammers Nordic Ski Association was functioning, we had an a list serve that was upwards of 200 people. Um basically all of whom were local, many of whom represented families, so more
than one person. Um, and just my familiarity with the number of days on which there's snow, and I'm out there a lot. We are well in excess of a thousand skier days at Cherry Hill. >> That's great.
>> All right. >> Those are the ones that you have contact with. There could be >> Yes, >> there could be singletons going out there that aren't, you know, the free agents that are going out there just saying there's groom trails here, too.
Okay. Um, and then I guess on the disc golf side, I was wondering I know that that there are websites that basically you upload your course and I know our course was uploaded to to the UDIS. >> Yes. >> Is that something can you get information from that website as to how
many people are logging rounds? >> We we definitely can get we can not I don't I don't think we can get lo rounds. Um >> Okay. I mean, I know you can answer that. I just wonder if they might, you know, they're in the business of trying to build the sport as well, whether they'd be able to or willing to share
some of that information. >> I don't know if it's any good either. I mean, when I play half I I generally don't log around, but nonetheless, it might be a way to size the community a little bit. >> Is that just because of your score, Andy, that you don't log your rounds?
>> Can't count that high. Yeah. And then the um I guess the the other two questions were around I the Jones. So they're looking for space even with the expansion at North Ammerst.
>> Um yes. Uh >> okay. Um, >> I mean obviously I know they're all in flux now with uh with the state of construction, but and then the last one was just what are your thoughts on on how would we monetize
Nordic and disc golf in the winter? Uh there it's a multi-pronged approach. Uh small bit from concessions and and uh selling selling concessions, selling merchandise. Uh we're talking about
running leagues and clinics. Uh talking about running a tag league out there, which is uh I've become fascinated with the idea of tag leagues. Uh it's uh you know it's King of the Hill sort
of sort of uh call to a challenge and come out and play uh but selling tag league tag league memberships and tag league t uh uh uh uh you know selling tags for tag leagues. Um we are looking at running a tournament at the end of
the year running a a larger tournament but running tournaments and leagues over the course of that year. Also, we started last year late. Uh, we started in the middle. We started basically in January. >> But by end of year, you mean end of season?
>> End of end of disc golf season. >> Yeah. >> All right. When is when does the course open up in the spring? The golf side. >> Golf course opens up in early April. >> Early. >> All right. I've been I've been hogging the questions here. Any um any
questions, Sanjay? >> Yeah. Ray, thanks for your comment that some adjustments have been made to the disc golf layout uh to try to um avoid interference with the ski trails. Uh, I think the re the I think the
reality is that there will be conflict and I would encourage you to authorize John on days when there is grooming, not when there is snow, but on days when he is able to groom, I would encourage you to authorize him to close the disc golf
course. And I understand that that will never be monitored or enforced, but the mere presence of signage at the two key entry points, right, Pulpit Hill Road and the clubhouse. Dis ski groom groom groom
skiing today. Disc golf closed, right? The mere presence of those signs will provide some level of deterrence and does provide a little bit of sort of moral support to the skiers as we try to um as gracefully as we can manage conflict.
>> Did did you run into that Sanjay last year or do you know people who did? I'm just curious whether >> Yes. every every every day that John groomed, the trails were significantly impacted by foot and cart traffic.
>> And one of the things is without without monitors there, we couldn't we couldn't specifically tell that it was it was disc golf and how many of them were disc golf because they have had the issue before, but we know that there was disc golf. We know that disc golf is being
played out there. Um, and it doesn't take many of them. To San's point, of course, if they're if uh uh uh you know, if if if we have the signs up there and everybody follows them, then great, we've done our job. If three people
decide they they're they can run through, then it just takes three people to disturb the the groomed order. >> Um >> Yeah. No, it's a great suggestion. Yeah. No, I think it's a great suggestion. I think also it's it's useful too in that it reminds it reminds both user
communities that there's more than one use of that space. So awesome. Um all right, any other questions? Um all right. And I was >> do you know when we get any more any
more stuff for that committee? >> It's coming. I'm working with I'm working with Dave to put together a packet for everybody. >> So that's coming. >> Were you asking about Sorry, Chris. I was I was talking were you talking about the uh the the um Cherry Hill committee >> the working group we haven't heard
anything next person anyway. Okay. >> So we're we're we're putting together a packet for you all uh and we're going to have a initial initial meeting here coming up. Stay tuned. >> Okay. Perfect. No, we're excited about it. So >> good. >> Very good. Committee's all been
everybody's been seated at this point. Everyone's Yes. >> signed in or whatever. Okay. Good. >> All right. Um, then we are up to old business. Um, so Old Business, I know the last meeting I mentioned Ray and I were going to try to connect to talk about some potential names. He and I
didn't get a chance to do that. We'll we'll try again this week, but um, you know, reminder, we are we're a couple people down. So, if you've got good candidates, please, uh, reach out to your network. uh would love to get some female representation to make up for the
lack the fact that it's all people all all men on here. Um so that would be great. Um other old business I can't remember if I mentioned this or not but you know we talked about disc golf here on this committee in the past. Uh Rey,
Amy, and I are going to connect with Dave later this week to talk about that a little bit more um in terms of maybe like permanent homes for that. Uh so very early conversations and then you know we we'll brief the committee on
anything that comes out of those, but that will be later this week. Uh Ray, do you have any old business? >> I do not. >> All right. Any new business from anyone? All right. Uh, I think no report from me and I assume none from you, Ray. We've probably heard
>> Oh, I have a request I put on the agenda for the next meeting. Um, the I think Monday in December is the first and that happens to be my very first B first day of basketball triyouts and so that'll be
an impossible day for me to make on the first Monday of December. So, I think I asked for the eth Monday the eth. Um, let's see. Let's Can we do a a survey on this one? Because >> Yes.
>> I won't be available. >> You won't be available on the ETH. >> You will not. Okay. And I'm not sure if I will either. Let's just Can we get a couple of days, Ray? Let's put them in a survey. >> Yeah, it won't be. >> Matt, you're Are you I'm trying to remember. You doing another awesome trip somewhere for six weeks?
>> Yeah. For the month of December. >> That's what I thought. Okay. So, um, which means we would need everybody else because we need four for quorum. So, let's just get a survey out and, uh, make sure we get 100% representation from the other four of us.
>> Okay, >> Ray, do we have a do we have an Ammeris Northampton game in the tip off again at Mullins this year? >> It is not in the I was terrified that it was my fault. Uh, it winds up not being entirely my fault. No, we're not. We're in the same league with Ammer, so we have them twice this year. Why am I
doing this on the record? The uh we have we have two games with them, but but we didn't want to when I say we, I mean Northampton High School did not want to give up the home gate from one of those games to play in the
in the at a neutral site. So, >> all right. Home gym. Home gyms this year. >> We have an early one. We have home home gyms both ways. >> Maybe even three or four times. Who knows? We're both pretty good. All right.
>> All right. Goes. >> Yes. >> Say, say it with me, Ray. >> Sorry. Uh, so anyways, we'll see you guys. >> Thank you all. >> Thanks. >> Enjoy the rest of your week. Take care. Bye. Part: 2
special joint meeting of the town council, the town council's finance committee, the Ammeris school committee, and the library trustees. It is also a meeting of the budget coordinating group, which includes a regional school
representative, Anna Herd. If there is a quorum of those bodies present, I will ask you to call your meeting to order in just a moment. Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025 extended through June 30th, 2027, the ability of public bodies to meet in a fully remote
or hybrid manner, which is what we're doing tonight. This law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically present at a meeting location. The meeting is accessible in real time, by Zoom, by phone, and as
live broadcast on Ammerst Media Channel 9 and live stream. Please be advised that this meeting is being held in person in this case and that the remote access option is provided as a courtesy only. In the
event of technological issues with a remote connection, the meeting will continue in person as scheduled as long as there is a quorum of the council in the room or available by technological means. Given that we have a quorum of the
council present, I'm calling the council meeting to order at 602. The special meeting of the council to order at 602. I'm going to call on each counselor by name and they should indicate they um
can hear us and we can hear them. Pat D'Angelus, >> present. >> Anna Delin Gothier, >> present. >> Councelor Ete, >> present. >> Lynn Griezmer is present. Councelor Hanick, >> present. Bob Hegner, >> present. >> Councelor Lord, >> present. >> Pam Rooney,
>> here. >> Councelor Ryan, >> present. >> Kathy Shane, >> here. >> Andy Steinberg, >> present. >> Jennifer Tob >> here. >> And Councelor Walker >> here. >> School committee. I'm going to call on
Jennifer Sha who is the school committee um chair uh for the Ammeris Ammeris school committee and ask her to do the same as we just did. Jennifer >> calling the Ammeris school committee meeting to order. Um and we're since some of us are remote we'll do a roll
call attendance. Sarah Marshall >> here. >> Deb Leonard >> here. Bridget Hines >> here. VHS >> here. >> And Jennifer Shaw is here. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um and I'm going to ask um
the Jones Library trustees. Do we think we have a quorum at this point? >> I think there's only three of us. >> Okay. We if there is more, let me know and we will stop and call that meeting to order. >> Uh thank you. >> Uh finance committee Kathy Shane uh
please call any other members of the finance committee. Uh, I'm not seeing our resident members here right now. Um, unless they're in the audience. So, all the members who are counselors are here. Thank you. Um, and the budget
coordinating group, the only other person that I have not called on is Anna Herd and Anna, can you hear us? Thank. >> So, I have a question. Yes, we do have a quorum of the regional school committee here, but do we have to call to order?
>> You didn't post a meeting. >> Yes. So, you can't do that. >> Okay. Okay. And not to worry. Um, you won't be taking any votes tonight and so you're fine. Okay. Um but thank you for calling that to my attention. I noticed that Tim Shores had
joined us as well. Um okay. Uh there is no chat room for this meeting. If counselors have counselors or anyone else have technical issues, please let me and Athena know and Sean as well. Sean Hannon who is over here in the blue
plaid shirt. If counselors have um if you want to make a comment, please make sure you use the raised hand function and uh make sure that you um take your hand down once you've made your comment. Please note there is no
public comment during this part of this meeting. Okay. And also note just one other public announcement and that is our next meeting is on Monday, November 17th. And I'll get into more about that later except to say that it includes at
6:30 a public forum on the FY27 budget. Uh we are going to move immediately to presentations and discussions and we welcome uh town manager Paul Bachmann along with finance director Sean Mana
and our treasurer collector Jennifer Lefountain. So, >> thank you, Lynn, and thank you all for taking the time to be here with us. Um, for those of you who've been through this before, this this um presentation will look familiar, but everything has
been updated. Um, all materials that we're showing you tonight are in now in the town council's packet, so anybody can access it. We'll also be posting it on the town's budget page. Uh, the the presentation tonight is a team effort. Our team is led by our newest member,
returning finance director Sean Mangano. Y >> it's so good to have him back and he's working hard to catch up where we are organizing his team, hiring a new controller and closing out the last fiscal year. He's got a lot on his plate, but he's very efficient and we
know uh he'll be working through this uh over the next few next few months to get things cleaned up. Our time town team also includes treasure collector Jenna Fountain who is here with us tonight and applause. I noticed no applause for the town
manager but um and uh Kim Mu who is our principal assessor is part of our team. She will be with you next next time you meet to give you extensive information about tax rate and exemption things like that. So, this is a process that is not common in
most communities, but it is in some, but it's a tradition in Ammerst. It's about communicating early and often uh in the budget process to ensuring we all start off on the same foot and it's the same understandings. It's our staff's opportunity to share key financial information with you, this
the elected decision makers for the town. Next slide. So tonight's agenda, uh, we'll we're going to look back at FY25. Um, we're going to look at the current fiscal year, which is FY26, and look ahead to FY27 and and beyond. Uh, the
goal tonight is to share information about where we are, where we've been, and where we think we are going. We share information about the fiscal condition of the town following a format that has been used for well over a decade. We compare ourselves to other communities in the state that are
similar to us in terms of demographics and economics and also um we compare ourselves to communities in our geographical area. Next slide. So these are the key takeaways from tonight. So there are no surprise
endings or anything like that. Um major ch and I'm going to go through these quickly because we know we want to get into the substance of the matter. So the major challenges um is that now more than ever the town needs to maintain budget discipline as we take on major
capital expenditures where we and where we know and we have to allocate the funds to available to the town and it it is an important discussion. Health insurance increases are real and big and I believe we successfully h managed them
this fiscal year but they're going to be real and big next fiscal year and they're going to be harder to manage. It's going to take the our collective bargaining partners and the towns and the schools and the library all to be working together on that. The key challenge I think this year will be developing a stronger working
relationship with all of our decision makers, the town, the schools, the library. We are fortunate to have strong and experienced financial staff and Shawn and Shannon at the schools and uh Sharon at the library. As you all know, Shawn used to be the fin instructor for the school, so he understands the
challenges the schools are facing as well. You will hear this over and over. We know how much we're going to get and it's in every year we're we're about 380 to 4% uh new income coming into the town. We don't deviate from that much. And that was sort of borne out when uh
Sandy Per was here uh as a temporary finance director and he sort of looked at the numbers over a decade and said we're pretty solid in that 3 to 4% range. We're happy that we're seeing real progress in our capital projects. Um the school well under construction on on
time and on budget. Um our library under construction and we still have more work to be done on our DPW and fire but those are are teed up to move forward and we've if you've driven in Amoris you know we've been putting a lot of money into our roads because you've been stuck
in traffic probably and our other buildings continue to need investment. We also think it's always important for us to keep a rec to recognize the um the the constraints the uh economy is putting on our taxpayers.
So we're looking in this presentation to convey the need to maintain fiscal stability with and in in essence without strong financials nothing is possible in our community. So important accomplishments. We presented the S&P global um ratings
earlier this year and it was reaffirmed at our credit rating at AA plus. Uh through tonight's presentation, you'll see that we have focused on maintaining a solid financial position for the town. This matters a lot when it is comes to maintaining current town services or when we enter the bond market
especially. This is what they look at is how strong your finances are. We entered the FI26 budget uh year with a balanced budget. We have had excellent success in securing millions of dollars of grants to carry out our major infrastructure projects including the new elementary
school and the new library and roadway improvements. A new challenge this year is onboarding our finance staff and new comproller, new finance director. And we also have a lot of new leaders in our other departments and that's an opportunity but also a challenge. And we again you'll hear me say this
over and over. solid financial foundation. Um, outside bond ratings reaffirmed our strong fiscal management, the steps we have taken to prepare for the future. We have strong systems in place and one and we can we've done everything we can with all the parts
that we can can control. Our staff work together, take a team approach to problem solving and address major issues as they arise. And we've managed to maintain this steady this slow steady growth over the last decade. Next slide.
And I'm going to turn it to Sean. >> Thank you. Um, so we can go to the next slide. So the first chart we're going to look at is our revenue picture. Um, so these pie charts illustrate FY16 compared to FY26. And it compares our four major
categories of revenue. uh property taxes, local receipts, state aid, and other which is um like unappropriated uses um transfers in from reserves and things like that. So, what you'll see here is that we sort of the same picture we've had for several years now, a
growing reliance on property tax revenue um and state aid and local receipts are sort of shrinking as a part of that pot. Part of that is our new growth has been strong for several years now. So, if your new growth is strong, your property tax revenues are growing at a faster rate than what these other areas are growing at. Um, and then the flip side
is that our state aid growth has not been strong. We've had, you know, very modest increases in state aid. Um, so that's shrinking as an overall uh piece of the pie. Um, and the good news is while we've seen this property tax uh percentage grow, it's not like we did an
override and that has contributed to it growing. It's really um we're operating within the the two and a half% that were allowed and then the new growth that's um driving it up as a portion. Next slide. Uh so this chart's similar except for it looks at the expense side. So it's
comparing our major categories of expenditures from FY16 to FY26. Um and the major takeaway from this slide is that you'll see capital uh has grown from 5% to 9%. Um that was very intentional over this time period really starting back in FY14 maybe a little bit
after uh there was a plan put in place to grow our capital so that we could prepare for the four building projects. Um and we've done that right our capital as a percentage of our levy is at 10 and a half%. Um we've started two of the capital projects and are are getting ready to start you know one or two more
and our capital you know we've been able to invest in other capital needs like roads um and some of these other projects that have popped up. So, I know at times that can put stress on the operating budget, but it was a very intentional decision and it's put us in a strong position to take on these projects that we know are coming. I
think it's super critical now, you know, we do have these two projects started. Um, we've got the two other building projects right behind it, but behind that there's a whole wave of other projects. And if we don't get these done in the next, you know, 10, 15 years, all these four building projects, um, we're
going to get other ones creeping up. So, we've got the middle school roof now that we know is coming through. that's expensive. Even even with MSBA reimbursement, that's still expensive. Um the high school roof, I imagine, will not be far behind the middle school roof, just knowing the ages of those roofs, and that's a little bit bigger roof. Um the wastewater treatment plant
we've heard about. So there's there's other needs that will be coming behind these four building projects. So the fact that we're here with capital, um again, while it's caused some budget stress, it's a good thing that we're here. >> It's much better being here with these building projects coming up than being at the lower level and still having
these needs coming up. Next slide. Uh so this shows property tax revenue growth um from 2016 to 2025. The blue line is the total or the actual uh dollars of property tax revenue collected uh which grows at a pretty steady 2.5% plus new growth. And the red
line is property tax revenue adjusted for inflation. So we we sort of downgraded this. We were a rating agency. We've downgraded this to unfavorable. And uh really the reason why is inflation. So it looks, you know, I know taxpayers feel the increases in taxes every year, but when you look at
the purchasing power that we're gaining from those increases in taxes, it's why we're struggling to kind of maintain level services with the money we're collecting. Um, so we've downgraded this on favorable, especially in recent years with the inflation numbers that we've seen. Um, you know, you can see in this chart that there's the spending power is
just really leveled off. And with that, I'll turn over to Jen for the next couple slides. Few slides. >> Okay. Thank you. um uncollected property taxes. Sorry, this slide shows a 10-year
history of uncollected taxes as a percentage of the net levy. Um in FY2020, um it was slightly higher due to the COVID pandemic. And just as a reminder, uh the town adopted an extended due date for the fourth quarter property taxes that pushed the due date from May 1 to
June 30 without any penalty. And this also pushed out the demand bills into July. So the percent of uncollected taxes at the end of July was back under 2% where we're more where it was more in line with what we expect to see. Overall this slide shows our collection rates to
be very favorable in the bond rating agencies as we have remained well below the 5% or above warning indicator. Next slide please. Um state aid actual and constant dollars. Um, state aid looks to be increas increasing, but with
the constant dollar being adjusted with inflation, it has leveled out and even looks like it could be on the decrease. Um, this trends as unfavorable because state aid purchasing power is not keeping pace, especially past COVID, and is lagging behind state revenue growth.
Next slide, please. Um, state aid is continuing to decline as a percentage of revenues. Instability of local receipt revenues during and after the pandemic is the biggest reason for the recent fluctuations in state aid as a percentage of operating revenues.
There is some uncertainty what future years will show. Next slide please. So this is the Amor state aid history. Um the red bar represents state aid coming in minus offsets that go directly to the Jones library and elementary
school. Green bar shows our state assessments going out. The purple line is the net state aid which has grown from 12 million to 14 million over the last 10 years. This increase is only averaging about 2% a year and not keeping pace. Costs are growing much
faster than this. Next slide, please. All right. Economic growth increased post pandemic which put us back over 5% where we had been prior. This is vital to for the town's fiscal health as well
as being able to follow through on goals that the town council has made for us. >> Next slide, please. >> Hold on one second so everyone knows. >> So, um, real quick before, can you go back one slide?
Thank you. Um, just so everyone knows what's included in economic growth. So this includes building related fees and permits, motor vehicle excise tax, um new growth, meals tax, and hotel and motel tax are the numbers that we track over the time uh the time span. Next
slide. >> Thank you. Um revenue per capita, actual and constant dollars. So the red line shows property taxes and they have increased with new growth in the acceptable limits of Proposition 2 and a half. The green line shows state aid and
this remains fairly flat. The purple line is local receipts. As seen after 2020, there was a dip due to the pandemic, but they are slowly recovering. Even though property taxes are increasing, there is a growing dependence on them, barely keeping pace with inflation.
Slide, please. >> All right, back to me. Um so we are this chart looks at operating expenditures per capita and again it looks in actual dollars and inflation adjusted dollars. Historically we've always flagged this as favorable because the growth has been
pretty mild over this um time span. And when you see this compared to our comparison communities it's it's low. Um but we've also flagged this as uncertain and for a couple reasons. So, one, we know it's low, but there's budget challenges that we're dealing with each
year. And it's sort of kind of I don't want to say artificially, but it's low because the population that we work with has 40,000 uh residents in it. Um, but not all those residents live on taxpaying properties. And so, you know, our services are designed to to support
all residents. And, you know, residents use different levels of services, but it's designed to support all residents. Um but we're not getting tax revenue the way some other communities might get from that whole tax base um because so much of it is on taxes on property. So again it's uncertain because that pro
poses a challenge and we deal with it every year um of how to support our operating budgets. If you go to the next slide. So again this looks really great. Looks like we're being super efficient relative to our communities and a lot of ways we are and you know we sort of have
to be right. We're forced to stretch our budget. um you know, as far as we can um and we've done a good job of that over the years. But you can see how we compare. So the colors you'll see on this um if it's purple, it's a AAA community um bond rating. Uh the blue and the purple come out super close
together on this. For some reason, they don't on the PowerPoint, but um but the so the darker purple or the I don't even know if I'd say dark. The need colored purple is uh your AAA communities. the uh Norwood blue are are double A
communities which Amoris would be one of those and then the the Pittsfield tan are your single A communities. Next slide. So this looks at staffing. So this tracks our uh total municipal staffing um does not include the schools but to
other all other positions municipally um from 2016 to 2025. So the red bar is that total FTE, the blue bar is public safety positions, and then green are grant funded positions. So a couple notable things that have happened in
recent years are from 2022 to 2023, you'll see an increase of about eight. Um those were the crestf funed positions or the crest positions that we added. We went from two to 10. Um so you'll see the public safety number and the overall number um go up. from 2023 to 2024, uh,
went up about fourish. Those were the four firefighters that we brought over from grant funded into the operating budget. And then from 2024 to 2025, there were a couple pieces there, but the biggest piece was staffing for the um, rental registration program and the new inspections related to that. Um, so
we listed this as favorable because all those things were priorities of the council and our, you know, we were able to adjust our staffing to to address those priorities. Um, and they're all, you know, in one way or another public safety investments. Next slide.
So, this chart compare uh looks at total salaries and benefits uh spending as a percentage of the overall budget. So, the red bar is our our in terms of dollars, how much we spend on salaries and benefits. So, it's increased from about 46 million or so in 2016 to over 60 million
in 2025. The blue line looks at the percent of that salaries, benefits, costs relative to the overall budget. Um, so that's kind of fluctuated over the years, but it's right around 50% currently. And the green line is our total employee benefits spending
relative uh to wages and salaries or um in other words, for every dollar of uh that we spend on salaries and wages, we spend about 40 cents on benefits currently. Um so we when we put this chart together we were anticipating a sharper increase on the benefit side in
particular. Um one thing that really muted that or offset that in FY25 was our retirement assessment which is a big portion of this calculation was basically flat. >> Um so while b insurance costs went up that uh retirement assessment being flat offset a lot of that increase. We would
expect this trend to go back up for 2026 um given the health insurance increase that we we had to budget for. Next slide. Okay. >> Um, this is our annual debt expense as a percent of our operating net revenue.
These are our annual principal and interest payments on existing debt. The elementary school is the first of the big projects to impact this which reflects in the increase from8% in 24 to 2.4% in 25. Um, part of this increase
includes the first bond of the Fort River Elementary School, paying off um the DPW design, fire pumper, and the police chiller. In the next couple of years, our percentage will increase due to debt authorizations approved through the capital improvement plan. This was
expected for expected and planned for and debt service is part of the capital budget. So, this is a very exciting slide because this is one of the only slides that's changed in the last five years. Um, and it's kind of it it's sort of
like the culmination of everything we've been planning for. It's not great that our debt service is going up, but it means that we've started these building projects and we're actually starting to pay pay back on them. Um, and again, every I feel like every slide for several years now has kind of been the same trend. And now we're finally starting to see like this one in
particular again that service is going up but it's because we're starting to make payments on these projects. >> Next slide please. So this is debt service for FY24. Um there is a one-year lag in the reporting information. Um this slide shows us
compared to other communities throughout Massachusetts above and compares us to our neighboring communities below for debt service as a percentage of revenues. This will look different in the next few years as more debt is taken on with a few of the big projects underway. Our credit rating is strong
due to a low percentage of debt relative to general fund revenue and also to good fiscal management. Next slide, please. Um, Amoris long-term debt load has remained relatively low and had actually decreased in recent years as shown in
this slide. The percentage includes both long-term and short-term outstanding debt. This chart does not show authorized but unissued debt like the Jones Library and portion of the new elementary school. Once these items are borrowed for, our outstanding debt will
reflect an increase in percentage. The increase from 2024 to 2025 includes the first two borrowings for the Fort River Elementary School totaling around $26 million and phase one of borrowing for Centennial at 15 million.
Next slide, please. So, this is a comparison again to other communities above and below a comparison to our neighboring communities showing what our outstanding debt is as a percentage of assessed value for FY24. These charts are long-term outstanding
debt only. Currently, Ammerst is one of the lowest. This will change as we take on more debt in the next few years. And again, we maintain a strong double A+ credit rating as a result of this low percentage of debt relative to our general fund revenue.
>> And I think Jen said this, but just a um these comparison to other communities, they lag behind a year because the information comes from the state. And so it takes a while for that to kind of filter through to us. So these comparison charts are always a year behind the other data. Next slide.
So, this slide looks at our um long-term liabilities, pension and OPED. These are really our two sort of outstanding liabilities that we're working towards funding. The blue bar is our pension liability and we are as of 2024 about
75% funded. We don't have an updated FY25 number as of right now. Um that's managed by the Hampshire County Retirement Trust or Board. They contract for that. Um, so once we get once they do that and we get that number, we can um update this chart. And then for OPED,
which is in red, uh, I think it's pretty impressive how quickly we've funded it. You know, we started in 2014 at almost zero and it's almost at 20% in a in a relatively short period of time when it comes to big liabilities. So, uh, we do have a updated number for 2025. It's
about 19%. So, it's a little it's like a percent higher than what you'll see here for 2024. Um, so it's continuing to go in the right direction. Um, and again, we've made a lot of progress just through those sort of relatively small contributions, but we've made them over, you know, almost 10 years now or over 10
years now. So, it's starting to add up. Next slide. Uh, reserves. So, this chart shows how we've built our reserves over the years, again, intentionally to help us manage the four building projects. Um, the blue
bar is our free cash. The red bar is general stabilization in 2024. You'll see the capital stabilization come in because that's when that was uh funding was first transferred into that new stabilization fund. And then the purple bar is our reparation stabilization
fund. So the green line and the red line are 5% and 15% because that used to be sort of what our our benchmark was. Um but we did intentionally go over that as we started preparing for these capital projects. Um, oh, and I was going to say, you know, and we've already the town has already
benefited from healthy reserves. Um, the council appropriated $5 million from stabilization fund to help offset the the debt exclusion impact for the for building or for the elementary school. So, having these reserves, again, we need them for the projects that are coming up, but they've already helped
the town start the Fort River project um when we appropriated that funding. Next slide. This compares our reserves to neighboring communities. So, as you might expect, we're near the top. Northampton always beats us. I don't know what it is, but um they're a little
bit above us, but other than that, we're, you know, we're up there. But again, many of these communities, I don't, you know, are likely not preparing for the number of capital projects that we're preparing to do all at the same time. So, I wouldn't say our reserves are at, you know, this is not where they would be otherwise if we were not setting aside funding for the DPW
and the fire station. Next slide comes back to me. So I think um probably a lot of people are thinking like enough with the bond rating already like all you talk about is the bond rating and why does it matter? It matters a whole lot because it's it totally there's
direct correlation between our bond rating and the amount of interest we have to pay. We've talked a lot about how much money we're borrowing. You see it in the slides how as we start to increase our borrowing. As we borrow money, our bond rating tells the tells us how much we're going to pay on
interest. The lower higher our bond rating, the lower our interest. And so we want to pay as little interest to the banks as we possibly can. And that's why maintaining strong fiscal uh strength on this is is really important. And so I want to come back to where we are today.
So again, on the left is a bond rating. Good. Um, and also that um, we've been building our reserves as Sean said and we've maintained our commitment to the reparations stabilization fund. Um, so I think that hits all these points in here and the capital
stabilization fund. What do you want to say, Sean? >> Nope. Okay. Um, so for looking at FY26 current year, so we're we're doing well. um 4% increase for the town and library operating budgets, 5% for the school
budgets. We had to lower our investment in capital to achieve this. Uh this points out that this is a zero- sum decision-making process. Um ongoing challenges we're all experiencing inflation with be it tariffs or whatever else all of our projects. um the uh the
relationship, you know, we we have to work out a a good funding mechanism so the region can get the funds that it needs to operate as as do the rest of the schools. Rising health cast health costs are going to be the thing that drives our decision this year. um it's
going to be brutal and um we did the easy fixes when we worked with our insurance advisory committee and all the every collective bargaining bargaining uh body is part of that and we did a lot of the good things to to knock down the increase from last year. Um so but I
think they're going to be harder and harder to do as we go forward. Uh and then we've heard a ton about investing more in our roads and I think everybody who's either driven on a road or listen talk to anybody in town knows that that's a priority. Next slide.
>> So um so in terms of Are you going to do this one Sean? >> Yeah I sure. >> Um so we're getting to our forecast for next year. So for revenues we are projecting the the 2.5% increase and $650,000 for new growth. Um, if you go
back a year, our new growth was higher. Um, I got an update from our assessor for the current year of 26 and our new growth is likely going to be around $400,000 or a little bit less. So, we are having a down year. Kind of rare when we look back, but it is a down year. Um, we're not adjusting our
budgetary figure yet because we've had, you know, a number of strong years, but I think it just reinforces why we don't up, you know, adjust that new growth number up right away when we see good years because there are down years as well. and then you have to really scale back. So, we're keeping it at 650, which is consistent where we have in the past,
but just know that um you'll see the current year we're in a little below that. >> State aid is being projected as flat. There's a lot of uncertainty um specifically around federal funding that goes to the state, especially next year. Um and that could have a ripple effect
throughout the state. So, we're being very conservative here, keeping it flat. If we do get increases, then we can always adjust uh appropriately. So um but for now we've left that flat and local receipts we are projecting a significant increase to the budget to reflect some of the recent trends we've seen in different categories. Um and
when we get to the projection table I'll I'll highlight some of those trends. Um and good news no override is project uh being proposed currently uh on the expenditure side. So the number we're working with right now is 3.5% is what's in the uh for operating
budgets. Um, but I do want to note for the region, it doesn't include the onetime funding that was included last year. So, it's less for the region and you'll see that on the um on the projection screen, but um in terms of the increase in the recurring allocation
for operating budgets, it's three and a half%. And then for collective bargain agreements, so um what I understand for the schools is they have four unsettled CPAs for the FY27 year. um they might not be unsettled right now, but for FY27 um and two that are settled and for the
town still great. >> Yeah. So, we we will have we're very confident we'll have a fourth one settled within the next few days. So, it'll be four and two. >> So, the reason we give you this information is just to let kind of give you a sense of how much uncertainty there is with um wages. You know, when
they're unsettled, we don't know exactly what the what the cola steps, all that will look like. So, um, so there's a decent amount of uncertainty with wages next year because of, um, just the timing of where we're at. Uh, and then with for health insurance, we are anticipating another year of double digit increases. Uh, we'll have much
more information in the next week or two. Um, but and once we get a more definitive number, we'll share it out. But to for conservatism and just because this is where we expect we're going to land, we're we're anticipating double digit increase. >> Just a notable thing here is that we're
starting at three and a half% is more than we have in years past. We've always been at 2 and a half 3% range. So, we're trying to be more attuned to what the council has put in their past financial guidelines and sort of being tighter on our projections.
>> Next slide. Uh so, some other expenditure items. So, for retirement assessments, we're projecting a 4% increase um consistent with the the financing plan of the retirement system. That can vary based on performance of the trust, how many members we have, their salaries relative to other members
of the trust. Um, but we're projecting 4% and then we are projecting a $50,000 increase uh to our oped contribution, which is what we've tried to do um when we can. On the capital investment side, we've kept it at 10.5% of the levy for now. Um, and you'll see how that kind
of, you know, our best estimate right now of how that breaks down between different categories of capital. Next slide. So, I mean, these are the challenges that we've asked the schools in the library and the town to share. Um, I don't think there's there's we've addressed every one of these things. I
mean, I think for the town, we want to make sure that you're aware of the facility infrastructure needs that we have. Uh, we as Sean mentioned, I think we've seen this bit of a slowdown in economic growth um in terms of our new growth. Um, and that would just note that we continue to have the frozen
positions that we had from last year. um you know the schools it's it's the sixth grade move which is going to be very big transportation um significant increase for the transportation and uh union negotiations and special education and then the new
track is going to require investment to maintain the track going forward and for the library uh they are seeing increased demand for services maintaining the the facility and grounds when they retake when they take over the building again and then continuing
um we're trying to manage their dependence on the endowment. >> Next slide. >> So, um these are these are the big picture things. We're continuing it's it's many of the same as things mucing the town's carbon footprint. um
expanding the tax base which is the lifeblood of keeping the town moving forward, moving the four building projects going, you know, ahead. Um recognize the need on taxpayers and also just we all should recognize that there are more needs and wants than we have resources. So maintaining fiscal
discipline, making those hard decisions is going to be is was what we're at the in in the room for why you're all elected. Um how do we move forward? We have to be very frugal in how we manage the taxpayers's money. Um, you know, don't overdepends.
That's one-time money. And so, if you start to use it for operating budgets, you get into a you get you get a lot of hurt really fast. And we see that in neighboring communities. Uh, and we're hope we're optimistic that as we open new buildings or net zero buildings, like the the um conversion of two el two
fossil fuel elementary schools to one net zero school. There should be cost savings there. And we want to be able to recognize that cost savings both in staffing and in fuel costs. Next slide. So I'm going to walk through the
projection relatively quickly. Um this is I believe going to be discussed at finance committee on November 12th. Is that right? Councelor Shane. >> Take that as a guess. >> Finance comm. >> Uh we're meeting on the 12th, right? To budget guidelines.
>> Yes. >> Yes. We are. And the issue is I think we're going to be meeting at 10:00 in the morning. We originally posted it for 2. >> That sounds good. Yeah, I can that that um so we'll get into much more detail of all these numbers and um kind of where
they come from at that meeting. But kind of quickly, if we start at the top, property taxes, as I mentioned, we're projecting the 2.5% increase. Um 650,000 for new growth. And I know one number that's um interesting to folks is what
we're projecting for a debt exclusion. Um so the number for FY27. So just again the white column is FY25, the blue column is FY26 and then yellow is what we're projecting for FY27. Uh the number
for the debt exclusion is 2,173,000. um that's based on our latest cash flow and debt plan uh debt schedule um for the elementary school. So it's not quite at the maximum level that it's going to get to, but it's getting closer. It's,
you know, ramped up from where it was in FY25 in FY26 a little bit and then it's going up a little bit more for 27. Um in a couple more years, we'll sort of hit that uh kind of stable level. In local receipts, you uh you can see overall
we're uh proposing a 13.1% increase. Couple notable items, motor vehicle excise tax. Uh we looked at a three-year average of the pri um FY23 through FY25 and we've adjusted that that reflects vehicles being more expensive and in
general we've seen a rise in this revenue source. So we've adjusted that hotel, motel and and meals excise. Again, we looked at three three-year average of what those have come in at, and that's what we uh put the budget at to start. For
licenses and permits, it's really two revenue sources that are driving that. It's building permits and it's revenue from the new rental registration program. Uh so we the rental registrration program that's still sort of that number might change a little bit as we work with that department to
understand what they're going to collect. uh and the building permit revenue, we haven't gone quite as high as some of the prior years, which in a lot of ways were driven by one or two projects that we won't anticipate happening every year. Um but we have brought that up a little bit to be more consistent with prior years. Uh so
making all these adjustments um has brought up our our local receipts 13.1%. I know another one that I've heard about is the investment income for example. You were ask question I can see right there. Uh uh 2 point you know we had a couple really good years with investment income. And that was for the applause
for Jen when we first started. Um and but I do want to really point out that while it's good that we were able to collect that money, a lot of it was based on one-time monies that we are spending actively um whether it was the ARPA money uh whether it was MBLC money for the um even though that interest is
in separate so it wouldn't be MBLC but uh we had construction loans and things like that that were not being spent actively and so that helped generate higher interest than we might otherwise uh expect. So, it's good. We can, you know, the council can consider how it wants to use that that funding, but I
wouldn't advise building an operating budget on it because I don't expect it'll stay that high for much longer, especially as we're actively spending down the project uh the borrowing from these projects. State aid is the next section. So, we basically kept state aid flat. It looks like a little bit of a decrease here
because the the governor the final budget changed from when Ammerst adopted its budget, the final state aid figures for Ammerst. Uh so what you'll see in the yellow column is the final FY26 state 8 figures for Ammerst. And then another financing source is the um the
ambulance fund. It's we're dropping it down to 3 million in FY26. It included a new ambulance purchase. So it was brought up. We bring it up when we use it to fund capital. We're not proposing there's not a new ambulance as part of the FY27 plan. So we dropped it back down. Not all the way. It's a little bit
higher than what it was prior. uh but but it's not reflecting the purchase of a new ambulance anymore. So total receipts we're projecting growing about 2.6 2.5%. I can't see what that number is but um next slide and on the operating expense side so as
I mentioned three and a half% increases um but you can see how much was one time uh support and so that is in you know in this initial projection zeroed out on the capital budget side uh we are you'll see the debt exclusion number that just
is a wash with what was up above in the property tax revenue uh we have an estim estimate for CPA. We have brought up our regional debt assessment figure. I'll have to continue working closely with the regional schools to understand what their capital needs are. Um but in preparation for the roof debt and um
other you know other needs they may have on their capital plan that's been brought up. Uh but that could shift you know based on discussions with the regional schools. But that's basically the assessment we pay towards whatever uh capital projects they have. Then uh debt service current, you'll see
that's starting to go up and that's because that uh NF27 we anticipate making our first principal payment on the library. So you'll see that um uptick quite a bit and that's really going to be where we expect it. It might drop a little bit after that, but that's where we expect it to be with the
library um payments in there. And then that leaves us with the cash capital which is dropping again sort of what was planned. We knew as we took on the debt for some of these building projects, there would be less for cash capital. And that's sort of what you see here. Um, debt going up, cash capital going
down. In the miscellaneous section, you'll see the pension assessment going up 4%. And then in an unappropriated uses, uh, we're projecting a 3% increase for state assessments. That includes things like charter tuition and our PBTA assessment.
Um, so all in all, at this stage, based on those assumptions that we've built in, we have about a $200,000 shortfall, which for this time of the year is very typical. Um, I do want to say like all the all the this these projections are
based on assumptions. If we, you know, something changes, if we get more information on something, we'll update them and we'll we'll certainly share it out with the committee. Last slide. So this is our calendar sort of the key milestones coming up. I think I'll just point out a few as we mentioned.
November 12th uh budget guideline development at the finance committee. We'll talk about this more and then the the finance committee will start developing their budget guidelines um or or drafting guidelines for the council. Uh the regional schools have their four town meeting on November 8th and as was
mentioned earlier the budget public forum is on the 17th. Thank you all very much. >> Thank you. Um and welcome back and yeah, glad you're still with us. Uh there is
time for questions. So if you would like to ask questions to clarify andor um um anyway clarify questions. Jennifer, I see your hand up. Can you use your ra raised hand function? But go ahead.
Please acknow I'm I'm acknowledging you because I saw your hand. Please go ahead. >> Can you put the Hi, Sean. I'll go back. Can you put the presentation back up, please? I have my first question is about the two pies that show expenditures between fiscal 16 and
fiscal 26. It was relatively early in the presentation. Yeah, perfect. So, okay, I'm noting that you have the elementary schools and the regional schools at two different slices of the pie, which makes sense. But when I add them up, it looks to me like in
fiscal 16 schools combined were 52% of expenditures. And in fiscal 26, 47% of expenditures if I add together elementary and region. So that tells me that the schools are getting a smaller piece of the pie so to speak than they did 10 years ago. And so by about five
percentage points from 52% to 47%. So then I want to look at what sections are getting a bigger piece of the pie and that would be capital going from 5% to 9%. And then I guess my question is about unappropo unappropriated uses. Can you give us some examples of what's in
that slice of the pie and maybe what is causing the only a 1% increase but what's causing the increase? Yeah. So, that's going to be state assessments. So, um that would be things like charter tuition or PBTA assessment are the two big ones. >> Great. Thank you. That's helpful. And
then my next question is about the c can I jump in there before you go to the next? So, I think cap we should know that capital also includes schools capital as well. So, it doesn't it's not it's that's shared that that increase in capital. >> Yeah. Thank you. the projection
for the fiscal 27, the first like big spreadsheet page. Yeah. So, this is just like a data question, but you see how the So, okay, you've got the blue is fiscal 26 and the yellow is projected fiscal 27 and then the dollar change in the percent change
is the change between projected fiscal 27 and actual and budget fiscal 26, right? It's just a formula. I don't understand why the percent change column isn't filled in for all the rows. just from a data analysis perspective, like if I look at local receipts, which as
you said has gone up 13%. What I want to do if I'm looking at this is I want to look at the things that make up that and look to see which lines are growing more than 13% and which lines are growing less than 13%. The ones are growing more would tell me that they're contributing to that. So, I'm just I've asked this before, could you just fill in that
column for all of the rows? Yeah, that would be super helpful. That's no problem. >> And then on the my last question is on the next page. Okay, I could be wrong, but for fiscal 26, I believe the additional 269 one time went to Ammerst, not the region. Is
that right? The previous year it went to the region. I believe for fiscal 26 it went to Ammerst. >> Yeah, I'm sure you're correct. I think we just showed it as one line and it may be my you know only being back a week or two but um but you're probably right if that's what >> okay I just want to make sure that the
numbers are like that you're you've taken it out of the right bucket and that the Anyway I'm >> yeah and we're not even taken out of a bucket it's just we're not rolling that over so whatever district that went to that funding it's >> captured correctly it's not there >> okay thank you that's it for me thanks
>> thank you Pam Money thank Thank you on slide number 12. Uh and again sort of on 14.2 we're looking at at salaries and and uh costs. Um are the salaries and benefits calculated
equally for um school library and f town staff. They're all calculated in the same manner. >> And and you're asking the numbers that go into the salaries and benefit. Um yeah, we pull them from the same spreadsheet.
>> Okay. So they're they're apples and apples because I thought there was at one point there was a conversation about um one of the groups was not having to count um OPED or retirement in the same way that other groups did. And I just
want to make sure they're apples and apples. >> Yeah. Let me I might need to understand your question better. Um >> I'm not sure I can explain it better. >> Oh, hold on. What do you have the chart number on there by chance? >> Uh it was 12 and then 14.2 two is another one that touched on the same subject.
>> Let me just pull that up real quick. >> So can you say that one more time the question please? I was just trying to confirm that we calculate and estimate salaries and benefits in the same manner for all
components for schools, for libraries and for town staff. >> Yeah. So the the information for the regional schools and elementary schools comes from the school department. So we ask them every year for what were your health insurance costs? Um what were your p uh for the region? what was your
pension assessment and what were your payroll um costs. So they're consistent from year to year for sure, but they do things a little like their budget structure is a little bit different than our budget structure. So it's not like there's the same number in both sides that we can pull from because it's just different how our budgets are
arranged. Um but it is consistent from year to year. >> Uh Sarah Marshall, >> thanks. Two questions. Hi, Sean. Um, the unfunded liabilities, the pension and the OPE, um, is the schedule that the town is on
to fund those, is that, uh, mandated or has that been a choice of the town? >> The retirement assessment is mandated where um, the trust or the Hampshire County retirement system that we belong to is ahead of schedule. They have to fund it by 2040, but they're on track to
fund it by 2032. So, they're ahead of schedule, which is a good thing because when we fund it, then the cost is going to come down. Um, the OPED obligation, there's no mandate to fund. The OPED obligation, there's no mandate to fund. It does help positively impact
our bond rating, which we discussed earlier, um, that we're addressing it. So, it does have a positive impact on us, but there's no year where it has to be funded by that I'm aware of. like followup and then um so you say I guess
the state requires the pension to be funded by 2040 but Hampshire is going to do it by 32. Can anyone else choose we'd like to spend eight more years to get there or is that not a an option?
>> Um well we have a a representative of the the retirement board right here. Um uh you know that's a question we can I can talk to the chair of the committee about. Our increases for the retirement system have already started coming down quite a bit. There were years where it
was 9 10% increases every year and they were really challenging. Um our pension assessment from FY24 to FY25 was almost zero and we're expecting like 3 or 4% increases until the trust is fully funded. So or the retirement system is fully funded. So the increases from year
to year are much more manageable now than they maybe once were. Um but we can ask that you know just so I understand um we know what's our options are. We could ask that question of the chair. >> Yeah I'm just curious. Thank you.
>> Uh Eugene go. >> Yeah just a a quick question. And I don't need the slide to be brought up, but looking at the town spending per capita in Amoris being much lower than pretty much any other town on the slide where you showed that. Is that because of the large percentage of the
population that are college students? And I'm going to assume they don't have kids in school or is there some other reason for that? >> Yeah, that's a major contributor. Um I don't know what the exact number is, but of the 40,000 um residents roughly that are attributed to Ammerst, I'm guessing,
you know, somewhere over 10,000 are are college students. 18,000. Is that what you Okay. So yeah, so that's a major reason why that number um that uh influences that number down. >> Cool. Thanks. Just confirming that.
Councelor Hani. >> Um, a couple things in the financial indicators. I guess in the budget projection, the revenue for FY25 lists as actional actuals and the expenditure for FY25 lists as budget. Is that act
accurate? >> That was intentional. Okay. >> And glad you picked up on it. Um, so we haven't finished, like I haven't dug into the FY25 to finish closing it out. Um, so I wanted to be clear in that description. So the F, if you look at
the, um, result of operations for FY25, you'll see there's about a $5 million um, surplus. That's really what's coming in. We might anticipate going to free cash, really only from the revenue side. Once we once I'm done kind of wrapping
up the expenditure side, you'll see about probably like another $5 million is what we're expecting um from FY25 going to free cash. Now, so about $10 million total from FY25. Of that $10 million, about $4 million
was ARPA as the council made a decision to use that and and have it go to free cash. So really the true sort of kick uh turn back from FY25 is about 6 million is what we're estimating. Um, but that was intentional. Why that still says budget for the expense side?
>> Thank you. I wanted to make sure that that was intentional and that was accurate. Um, a couple of questions or clarifying comments based on other questions. Um, when did at one point these budget projections and budget sheets had
charter tuition assessments on the budget side, the expense side were part of the school budget and then they were moved out into unappropriated uses. Do you know what year they were moved out? >> I looked at that. Um, it was prior to FY16. It was like a couple years prior, but you're right. At one point, the
school slice of the pie would have included those assessments. Um, and then they were taken out. Um, but when I looked at it, it looked like it was FY14 or FY15 when that switch happened. >> Okay. So, the chart that Jennifer was referring to are are not >> don't include charter in the school um
portions >> on both sides. Okay. Um, if I did my calculations correctly, the current capital expenditures that that that pie chart referred to of 9% of our total expenditures about 25% of that relates to just the building project and the school debt for the region. Is that
correct? >> I trust your calculations. Okay. >> Thanks. And retirement and OPED. Um I I think we asked this question in finance regarding retirement the retirement assessment that includes not just municipal employees but also some
portion of school employees. Does OPEB also do that or is it just the retirement side? >> Yeah. So for retirement, you know, it's between two and $3 million is for the elementary schools of that of that total assessment. So it doesn't cover teachers but all the non MTRS employee mass
teachers retirement system employees will be part of that. Um and then for OPED, our oped liability does include the elementary schools. It doesn't include the regional schools or or PAL. >> Yeah, >> thank you. So both of them actually
combine, not just >> So when we're funding it, we're funding um school funding. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Kathy Shane, >> I think I'm building on Mandy's. Um so
when when we're looking at the pie chart uh on schools the elementary side doesn't include the two and a half on pension that's paid in the general budget. Is that correct? I mean it's it's the line item we see. >> It doesn't include the pension just like
the town doesn't include the >> although the the region does include their pension you know. So the schools their schools are just handled differently I think is the point. >> Exactly. And the regional schools, they have other funding sources outside of what's in that pie, right? So they have they get chapter 70 directly, but you're
right, they there are some costs they have to pay directly where in the town we pay it uh before it gets >> Yeah. and and I just don't know whether that has always been sort of a constant you know in terms of pie charts but it was something that we uh just were made
aware of in terms of the size of it last spring you know >> the retirement assessment for the region >> that you know that how much was for the elementary and then when you go onto the region side the region's carrying all of their retirement >> where the elementary is not carrying I just
>> I should have known that before but I didn't realize it on the elementary side I I knew the region was carrying it all, but I didn't realize that the general budget was carrying part of the elementary school. >> Um, then on some of these, I know you haven't closed out FY25 yet, which what
Mandy was asking. From what we could see by the third quarter of the year, uh, investment earnings are going to be way up again in FY25. I don't know whether they'll be as high as they were in in 24 >> and it was it up there. Yeah, it's um so
the number there for on the revenue side is current. So if you look at the um the investment income on that revenue chart, you'll see the investment income for 25. >> Okay. And and so I just and this will be a discussion that we can have in finance
on that the excise is still being projected out excise tax as lower than it was two years ago. So I just want to look on some of our revenue lines whether our projections are >> more conservative than they need to be. I know you're trying to be conservative, but are they more than they need to be?
These are lines that have been generating surpluses. >> Yeah. And on the excise tax, we did bring that up to be a three-year average. So that's why there is a pretty substantial increase in the excise tax. Um so that does reflect recent trends, but um yeah, we can have that
discussion. >> You know, just that's for next week. >> Thanks. Okay, Deb Leonard. Hi Sean. Um I had a question about the uh the growth. I don't remember the slide but it was 5.2% projected growth.
Is that correct? New growth. >> What was it? It was >> related to the revenues or >> it was yes it was early on in the presentation um chart seven I think >> keep going with your question
>> yeah so it would help me to understand I think Jennifer got at this a little bit what is the source of that um you know it's obviously outside the 3 to 4% that that that we've heard is the gold standard
for the the town so I'm trying to understand the difference between the two. It It might >> Oh, okay. So, you're talking about economic growth revenues. This this chart here >> Yeah. Can you help me understand that a little bit better? I I haven't had a chance to look at this prior.
>> Yeah. So, this chart shows different um and it's not it's called economic growth revenues, but the rate isn't growth. What this shows is these categories of revenue that we kind of consider economically driven or or directly tied to the health of our economy. What
percent of our overall revenues are are those economic revenues? And so like if you look at during the pandemic in 2020 and 2021, those dropped way off. Um that would have been like meals tax going down, if there were fewer people eating out, um if there was a slowdown in new
car sales, that would have contributed to it. Um so those categories of revenue I mentioned earlier like building permits, motor vehicle excise tax, meals tax, um those are the revenues that make this up. And so what this picture is basically just saying is that we've bounced back from COVID and those
revenues are back kind of over 5% um which is a good thing. >> Okay. Then and in terms of new growth being 650,000 and you are anticipating it being closer to 400,000. So, um, if you look back for a number of years,
it's been over 650,000. We are seeing a slowdown this current year where it's about 400,000. Um, we're going to keep it at 650 for now because we have a trend where it's been higher and there are some projects on the horizon. Um, but that's a number that
we're going to work closely with our building department to understand what what might hit the books in FY27 and we might have to make an adjustment to that number, but right now we're comfortable with the 650. >> It is my understanding going back that
it's been the the budgeted amount has been $650,000 for many many many many years prior. So I get that it's slightly le not slightly less it's expected to be less this year but it is you know when we're talking about turnbacks and and
areas in which um the operating budget is being squeezed because of conservative uh budgeting practices. That is one area that strikes me as um certainly historically not conser
beyond conservative and um you know those little little small amounts translate to a lot in terms of the ways that the the region is well what both schools are being squeezed. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we'll we'll certainly look at that
number and like I said the it's not an exact science. We have to look at what uh projects are under, you know, most of that money comes from big large building projects. Um, and we have to look at when those come online, when they hit the property tax role. Sometimes they partially hit the property tax roles.
Um, and again, I've only been back a week or two, so I don't know exactly what ones are out there, but my understanding is there's not as many large ones out there as maybe there were that we've seen in past years. >> Yeah. Can can I keep going? I have more questions. >> Yes. Um so in terms of the municipal
staffing levels, one of the things that would help me understand is um how all of these numbers, you know, sometimes you talk about how much money it is and sometimes you talk about the percentage of certain holes like the
operating budget or the whole budget and sometimes you talk about the increases over the previous years. And one of the one of the things that I'm trying to understand better is staffing because um you know that's measurable. I mean it's
it's understandable and and and it maps well to the school schools because we do have to reduce FTEES as opposed to freeze unfilled positions as as you know coming coming from the school side. Um, but
there was some discussion in the community recently about overtime and it seems like when you're and I really don't understand where that where those overtime numbers come from and what they translate in terms of the budget, but
that's yet another way that I find these discussions hard because yes, you have a certain number of static FTEEs, but if you're paying paying staffing overtime because you can't fill positions. I
understand. But that's different. That's still the same number of FTEEs as opposed to paying this to different people for doing those same number of hours. Can you help me understand that a little bit? >> Maybe. Uh um I'll say both budgets have
overtime. I think in municipalities, your police, your fire overtime is pretty common because there's things that pop up that shifts have to be covered when people aren't there if there's vacancies. So, it's pretty typical for municipalities to have overtime, you know, larger overtime
budgets in particular for police and fire um and facilities, which I think is probably the most um comparable for the regional schools or the elementary schools where they have overtime for facility teams to work do different projects. Um, you know, I I think,
you know, we could translate it to an FTE, but it doesn't always mean like that would eliminate the overtime because again, the overtimes there usually because there's a vacancy or there's a need that pops up and having an extra body if they're staffed. It doesn't mean they're going to be there when that need pops up. So, you know, we
can think about maybe different ways to share that information or present that information, but I don't know if converting it to like an FTE is gonna I don't think it would in some cases, you're right, some cases, you know, may we have to dig into why the overtime is needed and potentially adding a position
or two to the budget might actually reduce costs and that could be on the school side or um the municipal side. If the overtime is really just like because we need an extra body and we can staff it, that could have a positive financial impact. But I would I would say largely
it's sort of those vacant positions or times when you don't have so many staff that you need coverage that contribute to a lot of it. Um but we would we can look into that more and dig into that >> if I can just jump in on there as well. So I think headcount is really a thing that I've always paid attention to because headcount matters. It we're a
peopleheavy uh operations both the school and the town. So most of our expenses go to people. Um when you hire someone they bring additional expenses which includes health insurance and uh and then you you also have to budget or you account for their OPED which is
their what we are owing people uh for health insurance going forward and also for pension. So that all gets factored in. So I think we sure showed a 50% increase for every new employee that we get. So I think that paying attention to that and I think you know when I was looking through the slides I was thinking I I figured you someone was
going to bring up this question. It's like we could do this for the schools as well. Like pick it we know that what the enrollment for the school is on October 1. Let's look at it from October one of every year. What the what the staffing is for the schools and that might be an educated thing too. I think Sean is
right in terms of overtime especially when we have reduced staff. There are certain mustfill positions for minimum staffing for under our collective bargaining agreements for police and fire. Um beyond that they run short staffed. um or they'll they do minimum we negotiate that as well in terms of
making sure the town is safe but having the just the number of of um officers and firefighters we need. >> Thank you for that. Um, of course at time and a half and double time at some point it does become less expensive to pay for an employee than it does but um,
and then just since you brought it up uh, the Ammerst school uh, the Ammerst school district has unexpected uh, legally mandated uh, staffing increase
of five this year. at like in the very beginning of the year. So we are at the very very end of our contingency, not very far into the budget. That's one of the things that is different about
the schools and and municipal that um that's not a it it is what it is and the students legally required um staffing is is that and then just coming back to that I know y'all heard a lot about
roads. I've heard a lot about staffing. So you Paul, you mentioned the the roads and I just want to say that uh there's also a lot of public interest around the the state of the schools and what we've had to do over the years to meet um
those uncontrollable expenses. So um and my last point uh you mentioned the ambulance fund and that's like a mystery to me. I've never been able to find like any accounting for it, what goes into it, what comes out of it.
>> Yeah. Um it's a great fund. Um so basically when our so our fire department, they also double as EMT drivers, right? And which is a really good model because it uh maximizes their time. And when they drive folks to the
hospital, we bill for insurance. Th that money goes into the ambulance fund. That money then is used to offset some of the cost of their salaries and also to purchase new ambulances um from time to time because in the past I've seen
ambulance fund lines in the revenue side that is but you see you'll see it on both the revenue and the expense side. So when it's on the revenue side, it's how much we're budgeting from the ambulance fund to
support the expense side and then on the expense side is sort of the off. So it's sort of a wash. Um you don't see it as clearly on the expense side because it's part of the fire department's budget. Um or yeah, it's part of the fire department's budget, but you see we want to be clear how much we're using from that fund on the revenue side to support the budget.
>> Thank you. And then just a last point because there's been some discussion about the parts of the budget that support the schools that aren't under the school category because there's a lot of um places in capital where I
think excuse me that the looking under the hood of what is in that one part of the very large and growing part of the budget. There's places where those conversations will be useful to have. What What is What are those capital
expenditures actually going towards? >> Sounds like you just signed up for JCPC. That's what I'm hearing. >> I did not. I'm on BCTG. Thank you. >> Uh Bridget Hind. >> Hi there. Well, so Deb got to some of my
questions, but the first thing I was thinking about was that in fiscal year 25, we have new growth at 1.2 million and then in 26 that I think that's still the estimate of 650 as a
placeholder and then 650,000 again this year. So I was just wondering half this. It sounds like you're saying half this because so far this year a smaller amount has come in. >> Yeah. So, um, our assessor submits a report and so she's submitting the
report for this year. So, it's not it's not something that trickles in throughout the year. The number she's going to submit will be the number for the year. Um, and the number was under 400,000 for for the current year that we're in. Uh, um, so that's why we
haven't lowered the new growth estimate, but we also haven't increased it because we know this current year is is lower than it's been in quite some time. >> Perfect. Yeah, we're getting just getting started. So fingers crossed in the miscellaneous category too. In
fiscal year 25 it was like 463 and this year 165. And so that was a similar category that I wondered about. >> Yeah. So that one I've got to I need to spend more time with. So that really relates to our um you said it's the miscellaneous section of our local
receipts. Is that the one? Yeah. So, that's a section that relates to our strategic partnership agreements. And um some of our new agreements are more specific with how the funding is to be used. And so, it's not necessarily a general fund revenue anymore. So, if
there if we receive funding that's specifically for the DPW, for example, um that's no longer a general fund revenue. It's treated more like a a donation fund and set aside specifically for that purpose. Um likewise, I think there's a portion of one of our strategic uh agreements that's specifically for education. And same
thing, that money is not put into the general bucket. It's put into a special fund um for education. So that change there reflects that we've seen sort of a transition in how some of our strategic um agreements are structured where they're um more specific in how the
funds can be used. >> Yeah, sure. I I did notice that now that you say it. Thanks. And um then I just had a question about the proposed 10.5% in capital and then we see in that chart with free cash going like from 5% to 10%
and I just wondered like when and where are those decisions made to like go up with the capital to 10.5 from 10 and to hold that much back in free cash. >> Yeah. So those I mean those decisions are made annually when the budget's
voted. Um the planning for it has taken place over you know over 10 years but every year the council votes a budget. Um so every year new decisions can be made. Uh but the planning that went into that those decisions to get it to where it is um dates back to you know early
201 134 and before. Mr. Councelor Steinberg probably remembers uh where they started. >> Great. And I only have one more question and hopefully it's a little bit more of a fun one. I've been listening to the town council debates and everybody is
saying that the real real trick here is to increase on the revenue side and I think I heard three ideas out of that and maybe you have some of your own. The one about more letting us tax um I think
it's like meals and hotels. Someone else mentioned whether we could charge student drivers some sort of permit for part of the year when they get their parking permit at the colleges. And the third one was some sort of tax on properties over a certain number a million. Are any of those or any ideas
like realistic to increase the revenues? What are you what are you thinking about in that? >> Yeah, so there's the Municipal Empowerment Act that I believe has a couple potential options in there that would allow us to increase revenues in that local receipt section. I think when we and I have to go back and look. I
think when we updated the parking permit regulations, we did include like an incentive for college students to register their vehicles in Ammerst. That was something new that we had done and I think you pay a a lower fee if you're registered. Is that right, Jen? So,
we've sort of done that um in in that way that we've tried to incentivize because when they're registered here, then we get the motor vehicle excise tax associated with it. Um, so we've done some things, but uh it yeah, we're gonna have to keep brainstorming new ideas and advocating at the state for them.
>> All right, perfect. Thanks so much, Sean. >> Um, I'm going to go on to Anna Herd. So, part of this is just a lack of familiarity with uh Ammerst Town finances. Um, so my understanding is
that the way the and I don't know if it's the finance committee or if it's the town council that makes the recommendation for like how much of an increase can be afforded by the town, but like you've broken it into different buckets is my understanding. And so and
within each bucket, each of those departments can increase their departmental budget by 3.5% or whatever it is this year. What I'm trying to understand is what
goes what expenses are included in each one of those buck buckets and are they the same? So clearly the regional school bucket is quite different from some of the other departments because they include different types of expenses than
other parts. But the school budget, the the elementary school budget is a little bit more similar because they have things like health insurance benefits partially covered by the town, but not all of it because some of it's covered
by the school budget for the teachers. So, I just like if we could look at all of the different departments that are given guidance and say which ones have additional expenses and which ones have fewer expenses that are included in that
department's budget, that would be super helpful. And then the um the second question that I had related to free cash um sort of related to free cash um there has been a it seems to me and I could be
wrong that there has been a fairly consistent $10 million excess at the end of the year for several years right now. And so the question is is that Is that uh planned? Are we sort of
aiming to end up with a little bit of $10 million of excess at the end of the year or is that more than we would if we if we could hit it right on the mark? What would we hit? Um and so like how much of a contingency are we planning for in the budget to ensure that we
don't go under? Um and so is 10 million too much and should we be less conservative in our expenditure estimates? >> Yeah. No, I think you know we're hearing that and that's one of the reasons why we increased the local receipt uh
revenues quite a bit. Um we we aren't aiming for $10 million and this year again was a little bit of an anomaly because four million of it was related to ARPA funds that had to be used. they they actually were designated for different projects and I I'm not sure what will come with that but but they
were earmarked for projects but we had to use it by the end of the calendar year. Um so really it was about 6 million you know is there always likely going to be some yes but we don't intentionally aim for a number. We don't put like a number and like how do we adjust our assumptions to get there? We
just we try to be um cautious with how we build our revenue budgets because the last thing you want to do is have your revenue budget come in under and then you have to cut operations mid year, right? That happens at the state sometimes and they have to do 9C cuts and we don't ever want that to happen. So on the revenue side, we're we're
cautious. Um that being said, we you know, we hear you and we're looking at how we're budgeting and um and looking at history. I will say like even five years is it feels like a long time but it can be a short history when you look back and you see how much things have uh
swung over time. Um especially in Ammeris like we've hit this period of um a lot of development, right? And will that last forever? Probably not. Um we've seen it start to slow down this year. Um doesn't mean it will be slow next year. Uh but we have this is the
first time we've seen it slow down um in in you know the last five, six, seven years. So, we hear you and we're trying to make sure that we are, you know, we're still being conservative and safe with how we budget and, you know, we're trying to get a little tighter on those
projections. That being said, given, you know, the needs that we have coming up, I still view it as a positive thing overall of where we're at because we know, you know, based on construction costs in particular, and this is more for the Ammeris folks, um the cost of a new DPW, the cost of the fire station,
it's going to be, you know, the costs are only going up. And so having those reserves are going to, you know, they're going to be the reason why we might be able to do both of them, right? Or why we can do both of them. If we didn't have those reserves with the way those costs have gone up and the way borrowing costs have gone up, it would be a much, you know, it would be a really really
really it's a big challenge anyway. It'd be a much bigger challenge. So, yes, it's, you know, it's something we're we're know is an issue and we're looking at and it ultimately it's a good thing that we're there. >> I'm sorry, the different costs um that are included for each department. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm thinking of a way
maybe we we can share something out because I've heard that in different um areas as well. Uh the region is definitely unique because the region is its own standalone district. It's not a department of the town. Um so, it's definitely unique. You know, it's funded by other communities as well. So, that
has its pension assessment in the budget as you mentioned. It has all the costs of the region are in the budget. It budgets its own capital. for example, like we don't have a role in the capital process other than through our representatives on the committee. And so the region's definitely unique, but when
it comes to Ammerst and the town are very similar the way what costs are in those two budgets, you know, everything's a little unique, right? Um, and the Jones library is even a little different than those two because it has its own endowment that it manages, right? And that helps support its budget. I wish I could say it's
super straightforward and easy to understand, but the best way might be um for me to create some sort of grid that like kind of easily shows like this cost does it where does it live? Um so that's something I can work on um over the next week or so. >> Okay. Uh I'm going to go back to
councelor Hanniki. >> Thank you. Um those questions seged into what I wanted to say. I see and I'm in some sense pleased to see that local receipts you're projecting a 13.1% increase year-over-year from the current budget to the new budget. That will get
um changed. That does, I think, go with what the council was pushing last year's closer projections. Um and basically what I'm understanding from that is we went from a five-year average projection to a three-year average projection. I think I think we used five years in the
past. you're using three years this year, but one of the big changes of using three years is that's using FY25 4 and three, which means we're out of using the COVID down years, which might actually put us a little closer,
>> right? That's a that's a good um I don't know exactly the method that was used last year. Um but I'll say for some things the averages make sense and for some things you need it needs to be a little more um detailed. Um but and for
things like occupancy fe fees and meals tax and excise tax I think the average is not a bad way to go. Um so yeah we used threeyear for those items that's what we used and >> and one other thing um we last year in the expense side changed the reserve for
abatement and exemptions from 1% to half a percent and I see that you carried that through to this year's budget indicators. So thank you for that. Do we know do you have off the top of your head since FY25s are still in budget not actual did we come in around that 0.5 or
lower than the 0.5 if you don't know I >> I don't know I mean we typic historically we did use half a percent and it was increased one year to 1% and I wonder maybe there was a particular pending abatement that was out there um because if you go back we we typically
had used half a percent um and it looked like for one year was brought up to 1% so I wonder if in that year there was something pending that we were like we want to be cautious for that one particular year. So we did bring it back to what we typically have is the half percent. >> Thank you. >> Um I'm going to go with one final
question from Deb Leonard. Okay. So I'm gonna try to make one big one instead of three smaller ones. So, one of the things that I have found confusing about many different things, but in
particular the planned turnbacks or surplus or whatever you want to call it for borrowing going back to early 2013, I think is when you said perhaps that was part of the
attached to every budget, town budget is the tone of Ammer's financial management policies and objectives which seems to me to read that cash is not the way municipalities should be funding these large projects.
So I I every year I had this cognitive dissonance between those two things. So if you could align one with the other that would be really helpful. >> Sean please use your microphone. >> Oh, sorry. >> Thank you. >> Apologies. Um, so you don't want to fund
recurring expenses with one-time revenues. And we generally think of free cash and stabilization funds as one-time revenues even though it's generated to different amounts every year. Um, it's not in itself a revenue source. Um, so we generally don't want to fund
operations with free cash. We do it is generally the uh what most communities do is to fund capital and that's how we've been approaching it. Um, and that's similar to what's in our financial policies, um, around using one-time revenues for onetime expenses.
So then just a quick followup building on what Bridget brought up. I I've gone back to some 2008 budgets um from the town and there was the facilitation of community choices committee in 2008 that made some recommendations about possibly
increasing revenue sources because there was a projected budget gap that that we're experiencing now. So if you could revisit some of those I don't think have been put into place that'd be great. >> Sure. And and and I'm not saying there's never a situation where we would use
reserves for operating. I think generally if you do what we say in our in our policy is that we need to have a plan for how we're going to wean off of it. Um you know same thing for grants, right? Sometimes we use grants even if they're short-term grants for operating expenses like ARPA and ESSER and all these things that we've had to deal
with. The key was did we have a plan to wean off of it? And some communities did and some communities didn't and they had really, you know, really challenging budget years. Um, so it's not that we never would in an emergency situation. I mean, if state aid was drastically cut, that's why we have the rainy day fund,
right? So, we would have to in some ways use it. Um, but we would want to plan for how we wean off of it over time. >> Okay. Um, given the hour, we've now gone a half an hour over what I had planned, but you know, good plans. I we want to thank you and I want to just really
stress this is the opening discussion. It is not the final discussion. It is the opening discussion for the FY27 budget. It will be followed by many discussions, school committees, finance committees, BCG,
etc. So, um, and we don't adopt a final budget until the end of the year, next year in June. >> So, Lyn, can I say I just want to thank our team. I mean, Sean has been working for the town for about 80 hours so far and to so to pull this together, to have
the knowledge that he brings, I just really appreciate the work that he and Jen and the whole team on the first floor did. >> We really want to thank you both for everything you've done to come tonight. Thank you so much. Uh, I'm going to use this opportunity to ask the school
committee to adjourn the school. Okay. Um, I move that we adjourn the Ammer school committee. >> Second. >> Thank you. Uh, Bridget, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Irv, >> yes. >> Deb,
Jennifer's, yes. Sarah, Ammeral Committee is adjourned. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Finance committee Kathy, there's there were no people. So, >> we didn't have any extra. So, it's just the council >> and uh the budget coordinating group is
adjourned. So, uh, at this point, the council is, uh, leaving this meeting. So, technically, we are adjourned. Uh, and we're going immediately into the next meeting. So, I'm Could we have a five minute break? Uh, the maximum. Yes,
you can have a five minute break. Um, Lyn, >> would you pause for a moment, please? We can't hear you. >> Would you pause for a moment? The town room's not unmuted. Okay, please go ahead now. Muted. That's why Jennifer couldn't hear you.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Can Jennifer hear us now? >> Yes. I couldn't I I couldn't a minute ago. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you so much. Okay. Um Okay. Given that we have a quorum of the council present, I'm calling the regular meeting
of the town council to order at 7:39. Um, and I'm going to assume that everybody else can hear and be heard so that we can save some time there. Um, let me note
that there is one regular public comment period during this meeting. And I also want to note that there is initially a change in the order order of the agenda. After the consent agenda, we will move to action item 8A, which is the
establishment of a resident oversight board. Uh this includes a proposal, a board charge and bylaw, and it will be a referral. Uh please note this is a presentation with referral to go and that will provide many other
opportunities for additional public comment and debate. We after that we'll return to a presentations for a joint meeting with the community safety and social justice committee most of whom are here in the room with us tonight and after that we will go back to our action
items. I am going to already be removing two of the action items and that is the University Drive easement uh and also 8F acceptance of the public way Paley Village Paley Vill Village Place excuse
me I may be removing others as we go along given the hour. Okay. Um so with that I would like to just make sure that we are aware we have a meeting coming up on the 17th. There'll be more about that, but it includes a public forum. It
also includes uh tax classification information. And then we do have a four towns meeting on November 8th. Election day is tomorrow. The polls are open from 7 to 8 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. And you can check the town website for
your polling location. With that, I'm moving on to general public comment. If you are in the audience here in the town room and you would like to make general public comment, Sean, I'm going to have to ask you to provide a sheet of paper for
that. Okay. And if you're on the on Zoom and you would like to make general public comment, please raise your hand at this time. Sean, how many people have signed up? Okay, I I really hate to do this, but
given the hour and how much else we have on our agenda and are wanting to get to this meeting with the CSSJC, I'm going to limit public comment to two minutes. So, we will start with uh Martha Hanner. Please bring her in. She is on Zoom.
Please state your name and where you live. >> Martha, go ahead. >> Martha Hanner, District 5. After the 2020 murder of George Floyd, the council responded by directing the town to explore alternative safety services
leading to the formation of Crest as an independent safety department of trained unarmed responders. You passed a resolution affirming the town of Ammeris commitment to end structural racism and achieve racial equity for black
residents. Tonight you are reviewing how well the uptown is upholding that resolution. As I worked on our league progress report on the CSWG recommendations, I've become very troubled by the lack of trust that divides our community. The
town has commissioned multiple surveys, different methods, same result. Many of our residents, bipok, homeless, recent immigrants, fear the police and would not call for police for help in an emergency. I think that's serious. And
these are your constituents just as much as I am. And I think you should be troubled, too. If we are to make progress in creating trust, Crest must be fully supported as an independent safety department that can respond to non-violent calls for help. The direct
calls to crest are increasing each month, but dispatch and APD have been reluctant to delegate any task to crest and this must be addressed. Furthermore, we need a process for residents to feel safe submitting complaints regarding
police interactions to an independent body. Then that body must have authority to conduct a credible investigation of the complaints. We want Ammeris to be a safe, equitable place for all our residents. And I hope you as town
council members have a similar commitment and that you will keep this in mind as you listen to the CSSJC report and the discussion of a resident oversight board tonight. and having listened to Martha that's the two minutes
please feel welcome to submit additional comments at any time uh we're going to go to the next person and who who is in the room who is the first person to sign up >> Algra Clark >> okay Algra please come forward
Hi, my name's Algra Clark. I am a resident of District 2 and you'll hear more from me later on the CSSGC report, but um I just two things. One is that somebody informed me that Ammeris Media doesn't seem to be live streaming. So,
there was some difficulty there. Um, I don't know if that is accurate, but um, they were having difficulty accessing it. And the other thing that concerns me about this past weekend is the high volume of fire calls that were responded
to. I believe there were 41 ambulance transports. Um, and again, it's concerning the level of impact that UMass campus is having on our fire staff. Um, and especially given the
pending cuts to Hadley's staffing and our already chronically understaffed fire department, it is really concerning. Um, and I just coming from a harm reductionist standpoint, I was wondering if there would be any way to talk with the university about like
opening a field hospital type area where they have cool like sobering centers during high volume weekends where they expect that there will be lots of alcohol consumption or drug consumption um to mitigate some of the transports
that might happen and to take care of the students closer to campus. Um there are models out there. Um there's the SPAT program in Boston that is more focused on opiate use, but they there have similar um programs that are more focused on alcohol consumption as
well because often you get transported to the hospital, you're given a bucket to puke in and saline solution. And that's not necessarily something that we need to tie all of our first responders up for necessarily. So, I wonder if that's something that could be broached
in town gown relations um to address some of the impacts on our fire staff. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments, Algra. >> Uh we'll go to Ash Hartwell. Please enter the room, state your name and where you live.
>> Right. It's Ash Hartwell, formerly a resident of Amherst, but now in South Hadley. Um and I speak uh these remarks are really based on the League of Women Voters recent report which you've all received. But um it also takes account
of the urgent need to examine and establish priorities for the constrained town budget. And that was phenomenal presentation today uh that you heard of. And I I make the case that the goal for Crest is in improving public safety,
security, equity, and justice, but also at reduced costs for the overall public safety budget of the town. And I'll say something a little bit more about that very quickly. Ammerst isn't a town noted uh for criminal or violent conduct. It's
less than 1% of the calls received by the police department over the last four years um actually require the use of force. probably people don't re recognize that the majority of the calls coming in uh for public safety dispatch
uh don't really call don't result in citations or arrests and could be safely resolved by well-trained supervised unarmed crest responders. This is not to deny that most rat residents are are more secure knowing that in critically
threatening situations, the quick response of armed police can really prevent and stop acts of violence or criminal behavior that cause harm. We're not denying that, but we're saying that given the pattern of um needs for calls
for public safety, the agency of Crest, if it was fully functional, could be enormously helpful for the town and at reduced costs. And um in our report we
we re-emphasize what Martha said just earlier that uh the reality is a significant number of Ammeris residents including black indigenous people of color, struggling poor, the homeless, recent immigrants don't feel safe in calling for police intervention uh when
they have a crisis. So okay, >> thank you for your comments, Ash. We'll go back to the room. The next person is Liz Haggood. >> Thank you. Good evening everybody. Liz Hood,
District 2, Log Town Road. Um, as a member of the Human Rights Commission, I just want to make sure that you all still are um looking at our proposed bylaw changes and that they stay on your agenda in the future. And good luck everybody who's running tomorrow.
>> Thank you for joining us, Liz. And yes, it's scheduled for our next meeting. Uh, Amber Cano Martin, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. >> Yes. Hi. Um, my name is Amber Kano Martin and I live in District 2. Um, so
I'm just calling um I'm uh joining to make a comment about the um upcoming meeting with the Community Safety and Social Justice Committee. Um, I'm happy that the meeting is happening. I think it's a shame that it's taken, you know, this long into the term of this council,
um, you know, almost 24 months to get a meeting and I hope that that will improve in the future going forward. Um, because I think that the work of this committee is extremely important. Um, so a couple things that that I hope will be addressed. Um, one of them is again I I
would support funding Crest to be fully staffed and operational 247. Um, I think one of the most important findings of the League and Women Voters report um was that most Crest service calls um would be coming in between the hours of 400 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. which is a time
when Crest is currently closed and not staffed. Um, so I would like to see that change so that Crest can actually serve our community in the way that it was envisioned to serve. Um, and also I just wanted to point out that you know the crest model was something that um was really like researched and fully um
looked into um by the community safety working group and um I don't think it's something that needs to be changed um per se to be like something like Northampton or other cities. I think we just need to implement it as the vision uh was intended and give it a chance to succeed. Um, and that involves, you
know, fully funding it and also making sure that it's receiving calls from dispatch. Um, so I don't know what the, you know, what the difficulty is there with, um, dispatching, um, calls to them with the police and fire departments, but I think it's really important to figure that out so that they can get
more calls and be used as they were intended. Um, and then I also just wanted to put in a plug for the re resident oversight board um to make sure that is in line with the CSWG recommendations including investigatory powers, resources, robust training, and
a majority of bipok and black residents um on the oversight board. Thank you, >> Amber. Thank you for joining us. Uh Ronnie Parker, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Hi, this is Ronnie Parker. I'm in
District 4. Um, I'm calling to speak on behalf of the resident oversight board. Um, as you know, the CSWG established this as a very important and pressing need to have a resident oversight board with investigation
powers, a place process where residents can safely submit complaints regarding their interactions with police and where their complaint can be heard and addressed. One important challenge I believe uh for us is in trying to address the concerns of BIPAC residents
regarding their interactions with police and that that is that we are a white majority town, a white majority town council, a white majority town staff and white majority police department. Clearly the experience of white people is different from that of bipok
residents of Ammerst in every facet of society from getting a bank loan to interacting with our police. I ask for explicit recognition of this difference in experience as we move forward. Please do not ignore BIPO voices because our
experience don't align with yours. When the CSWG wrote the sections pertaining to the RO, the town council agreed with what they wrote and create and asked that the town manager or somebody
asked that action be taken um within four months. This was in November two, 2022, two three years ago. So I'm urging you not to delay anymore. The research is solid. We know because the data are consistent across multiple
studies as others have stated. So the question is why are we not able to move forward on this? Maybe some of you don't really believe that the CSWG report says maybe just doesn't feel right based on what you know. If if so, please reconsider. Look
at the facts. It is a fact that many bipok people do not feel safe in Ammerst and do not trust its institutions. Ronnie, thank you for your comments. Uh, Leila Mashbeck,
I really apologize if I have not pronounced your name correctly. Please enter the room, correct your name, and tell us where you live. >> Uh, hello, my name is Leila Mashabbeck. I'm in district one. Um, and I, um, am
calling to just reiterate, uh, what Amber Ko Martin and other commenters have noted. Um, I've been tuning into the candidate forums, and really nearly everyone who's running for council or sitting on the council has spoken to the importance of Crest because I think
everyone is aware that this is a program that's important to the residents of Ammerst. Um um but in order to thrive obviously Crest needs the resources and agency uh to thrive. It needs um the prioritization and it needs the
authority and a thriving crest would serve the community in a more equitable way. Not just um in terms of um you know the community feeling more comfortable um but also in terms of our budget. I'm I'm really unclear about why the Ammerst
Police Department currently receives really uncontested funding overtime, new equipment. Um I see police who are um you know primarily it seems kind of guarding road works and things like that
which does not seem to be a high-risk police necessitated position. Um, and this doesn't seem to be discussed in as much depth as like for example our schools which seem increasingly underfunded and underresourced. And I'm I'm just
um ask you to uh prioritize the recommendations of the community safety uh committee and uh and really put your money where your mouth is and support Crest um in the way that it needs in order to thrive.
Thank you for joining us, Ila. Uh Pat O, I assume it's Pat Onbaku, please enter the room. State your name and where you live. Good evening, Patanbaku, District 2, Tamarak Drive.
First of all, I want to echo what everybody else have said tonight. I also want to thank uh the league for the excellent um report that they have. I urge all the counselors to to read it
and if possible even invite the league to do a presentation to you for you guys. So a couple things as a former member of CSS uh CS WG who made a recommendation
that you guys accepted. Um please please we are not Please consider what my group recommended which is alternative
safety not health department. And then my last comment it's about apa funds and youth programming. What happened to the money allocated with apa funds for youth
programming? It's been three years now that CSWG recommended youth empowerment center. What is going on with the money? Thank you and good luck everybody tonight tomorrow night on election day.
Miss Pat, thanks for joining us. That concludes public comment. We're going to rapidly move to the consent agenda. And uh let me just say I'm going to make the motion to move the following items in the printed motions. there under and
approve those items as a single unit. Uh 6 A, adoption of resolution supporting acts establishing Medicare for all for Massachusetts residents. 6B, adoption of proclamation recognizing small business
Saturday and shop local week 2025. Waiver of town council rules of procedure rule 8.6 for item 9.8.1. Please note this does not include the vote. It just is waving the review by another committee. And 11A, approval of
minutes for October 20th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. Is there a second? >> Brian second. >> Are there any questions or comments or requests to remove items? Seeing none, I'm going to move immediately to a vote on a Develin Gothier.
>> I sorry. >> Councelor Rete >> I. >> Lyn Gremson. I councelor Hanniki. >> Hi. >> Bob Hegner. Hi, >> Councelor Lord. >> Hi, >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes, >> councelor Ryan. >> Hi, >> Kathy Shane. >> Yes, >> Andy Steinberg. >> Hi, C.
>> Jennifer Tob, >> yes. >> Councelor Walker, >> yes. >> Patangelus. >> Hi. >> It passes. Uh, very quickly, um, Councelor Hanni, would you please, um, read the last two paragraphs of the
Medicare resolution? >> Yes. So this is the town of Ammerst resolution supporting acts establishing Medicare for all for Massachusetts residents. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Ammeristown Council endorse and support bills currently before the legislature of the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts and the United States Congress, establishing improved Medicare for all, and urge our state senator Kifford and State Representative Dom, as well as Senators Edward Marky and Elizabeth Warren and Representative James McGovern, all of whom are already co-sponsors, to work proactively to
create a singlepayer system of universal health care that provides all Massachusetts residents with comprehensive health care coverage. including the freedom to choose doctors and other health care professionals, facilities, and services, and eliminates the role of insurance companies in healthcare by creating an insurance
trust fund that is publicly administered. Be it further resolved that the clerk of the town council shall cause copies of this resolution to be sent to senators Mark and Warren, Representative McGovern, Massachusetts Governor Healey, state senators Kafford and Eldridge, state representatives Dom
and Sabadosa, and members of the joint committee on healthcare financing. Thank you. Uh coun uh Jennifer Tub, would you please read the last two portions of the Small Business Saturday, you have to unmute, Jennifer.
>> Yes. Thank you. Uh now therefore, we the Ammeris Town Council do hereby proclaim November 29th, 2025 as Small Business Saturday and December 1st through 7th, 2025 as Shop Local Week in Ammerst. Be
it further proclaimed, we the Ammerst Town Council urge the residents of our community to support Ammerstwide businesses and merchants on these days and throughout the year. Thank you. >> Thank you. We're now going to move to
action item 8A, the establishment of resident oversight board, board charge bylaw committee bylaw. Would you please come forward? And I'm going to ask Paul Bachelman to introduce this and introduce our consultants. Sure. >> Thank you, Lynn. So, the town council
requested a proposal to to create a resident oversight board and in Ammerst. Such a board would oversee actions by the Ammeris Police Department and the Amoris Community Responders for Equity, Safety, and Service, we all call Crest. The board would be an independent group that would educate itself on the operations of the departments and on the
laws that they would need to understand to fulfill their mission. And there's a memo in the packet that people can read as well. Um the um in the fall of 2024, I created and appointed a resident oversight board stakeholder group to advise the town on a proposal to be
submitted for consideration by the town call council. I also engage consultants to work with the stakeholder group. The information from the stakeholder group is in the result is a result of their collaborative work. It is important to recognize that each of the individuals who agreed to participate as a member of
the stakeholder group and the groups they represent came to the meeting with a willingness to engage in frank and sometimes challenging conversations. Their different perspectives and opinions were shared. I ask you to join me in thanking each of them for their time and intense involvement in this
important discussion. I noted at the outset that the mission of the stakeholder group was not whether there should be a resident oversight board. I noted that this decision would rest with the town council. The mission was to create a plan for such a board that I could present to the council.
So the stakeholder to just to name the stakeholder groups because I think it's really important because they put a lot of time and effort into this. We had community members including Shalini Balan who was a former member of the town council. Deborah Ferrara who is the co-chair of the community safety and social justice committee and a member of
the community safety working group and she was later added uh replaced by Alggo Park the other co-chair of the community safety and social justice committee Anika Lopes former member of the town council and Ronnie Parker co-chair of the human rights commission town staff were involved as well including Philip
Aila who is the assistant director of diversity equity and inclusion and the former chair of the human rights commission and Pamela Nolan Young who is the director of the diversity, equity, inclusion department, Camille Terak, director of the community responders for equity, safety, and service crest, and
Gabriel Ting, who is our police chief. Also involved were police union representatives including officer Lindseay Carol who's a police officer and president of of the patrol officers union uh Sergeant Nick Chandler who is a police sergeant and president of the Amoris police supervisors union and
offic Sir Molly Farber at times uh police officer and vice president of the of the union and important to note that not all members attended all sessions and participation by several key members waned at the end of the process. So, the consultants are here tonight and so
we're really pleased that they made the effort to be here. We really thank them for being here in person. Um, the Bri the consultants are Brian Core, who's the past president of the National Association for Civilian Oversight of Law Enforcement and a national adviser on Community Trust Building and Civilian
Oversight Systems. He's the former director of the City of Cambridge Peace Commission and the Police Review and Advisory Board. his nearly 40 years experience in government and nonprofit leadership recognized for advancing equity, justice, and trauma-informed approaches to community safety and public engagement across local and
national contexts. And we have Rabbi Deborah Kadney, who is a town resident, and she's also more importantly a consultant and facilitator specializing in community safety, equity, and inclusion. Over three decades of experience leading social justice, interfaith, and organizational
transformation initiatives across the United States. known for her equity centered facilitation, restorative practices and inclusive governing strategies for municipalities and nonprofits. So in my the um memo that you have in front of you sort of
outlines all the the processes and then it also in includes the work product which is a very extensive work product that came out of the stakeholder group which Brian and Deb will be talking about tonight. And there's three different versions or there's two versions in one that combines the two to
show to make it easier for the council to consider. So I just turn it over. There's a slide presentation that you're both going to provide. >> And before we continue, I just want to mention this is a vote to refer. It's not a vote to try to conclude this
tonight. Okay? And there'll be many opportunities. And in fact, I already have one potential way that I'll be adjusting to the vote to refer. But with that, please go on. >> Thank you. Um, you can scroll to I think it's the third slide because we've
already heard about Brian and myself. Stop there. Um, I will add that uh as part of my credentials, I'm a District 1 resident and uh former co-chair of the Human Rights Commission, and it's great to see all of you again this evening.
Thanks for taking uh making time for us on your agenda. Um, you've already heard who's who was on this stakeholder group. The charge of the group. Thanks. The charge of the group was to
develop um a draft charge for itself uh for the resident oversight board, propose a draft bylaw to establish the authority and responsibilities of the board, and identify other contractual or legal issues the town would need to address, including collective bargaining
agreements. And the document that Paul forwarded to all of you has, as he already mentioned, um two options for uh establishing a resident oversight board. And some of the folks who spoke this evening uh spoke in favor of the
investigatory model. I didn't hear any people speaking on behalf of the review model. Um we spent a lot of time using what's called the interestbased problem solving or conflict resolution model. Some of you might remember Getting to Yes by Fischer and Yuri. Um came out of
the Harvard negotiation project to to determine what the overarching principles would be that the group would work on to determine the contents of um a board charter. Um and the major considerations that they agreed on were
that oversight should build community trust, accountability, transparency, and ensure fairness and equity. and that any oversight should align with Ammerst's commitment to anti-racism and help ensure that everyone in the town of
Ammerst feels safe and secure. I want to note that those considerations reached absolute consensus. We had eight two-hour meetings over seven months time. And in between those meetings, there was intensive review of
lots of documentation, which is how we got through so much material in just eight meetings. Um, we reviewed the charge that Paul um offered to the group. Um, agreed on how we would work together. We reviewed both the CSWG
recommendations for a resident oversight board and also my own data gathering report um that uh I think it was completed in 2024 after having um four focus groups and gathering survey data. Um the the
stakeholder group participated in two training sessions that Brian provided on the purpose, role and models of civilian oversight and then worked through an iterative process to devel develop the recommendations that you have before
you. Um pardon me. >> Oh, can you forward the slide? Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to what was up there. Keep going. That looks backwards. Process. That's it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
I'm looking down, not looking up. It's a problem. Um the I just want to make note that the review model and the investigatory model differ from each other by I think it's three a total of three bullet points. So
there's remarkable consensus in the recommendations that are brought forth to you. um very little differentiates one model from the other, although they're very significant differences. Over to you, Brian. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Um and
again, since I'm just starting to talk, I want to thank you for uh your work on this so far and for taking the time to listen to our presentation and hopefully we can answer your questions more than present at you. Uh there's a lot of great information that we went through as part of this process on the web page
for the resident oversight board working group. Part of what I wanted to talk about very briefly because we spent two evenings doing this with the uh stakeholder group is just the basic world of civilian oversight of law enforcement. As you've heard, I've done
that work in Cambridge. I did that for about 15 years. Um, I left the city at the end of the fiscal year and I'm now doing that fully as an independent consultant and just started working as part of the team doing the um consent decree for the for Louisville, Kentucky,
uh, where the Department of Justice pulled out, but the city has gone forward. And so I'm I'm continuing to gain really interesting perspectives on communities that have had deep problems from around the country, but also communities that are really just forwardlooking to try to figure out how
to do things better. So in that world of civilian oversight, the reason I share this is that oversight can take many forms. Um it's anything if you look at the definition given by Nicole the national association that includes
civilians citizens residents no term is perfect who are not part of the law enforcement agency or other public service agency in reviewing complaints reviewing policy making recommendations conducting investigations or any
combination thereof. And the primary goals are, as it says on the slide, accountability, transparency, fairness, and and building community trust. Really promoting these ideas of legitimacy that a law enforcement agency
or public safety agency isn't doing something only because the ordinance or the law says it has the power, but because it's doing something that the community sees as in the broader interest. So that legitimacy is very important for having the type of public
safety that makes a community feel safe. And in many many cases, I would say any place could really benefit from civilian oversight in some form. The role varies greatly. You have some very large cities like New York and Los Angeles with tens
of thousands of police officers that have whole agencies that are doing investigations. New York City has about 100 investigators. No, 8 million people, about 42,000 police officers. You have communities that have review boards that are reviewing completed complaints and
that's really the model that we have in Cambridge. Uh we've had that since the early 1980s where you have board members who are trained who receive all of the information about the complaints. They receive the investigation, they receive any video footage, and then they make
determinations. Now in all of these models, the discipline, the authority around hiring and firing, that all resides with the police department, but you have the ability to make recommendations. You have the ability to make reports and publicize what is being
done. In an investigatory model, those investigations are taken out of the police department or law enforcement public safety agency. uh in most of those cases, those are communities that have a long history of severe dysfunction in investigation processes
where people have felt that they have not led to accountability. And so they're really in those situations most generally to change that dynamic so people can trust that when there's an investigation, it's done fairly. Then
there are also auditors and monitors, inspectors general. I'll just say briefly uh those are really looking at systemic issues. So they're not primarily doing investigations of individual complaints but looking at are there problems with use of force. Great example is New York City has an
inspector general. A pattern of stop and frisk emerged. There's also a federal consent decree around that. But the inspector general has done many port reports around how is force being used how whether it's stop and frisk or other sorts of situations how those kinds of
problems are not just about individual complaints but about patterns about training about policy that is not in the interest of the community. So having said all that I'm already going on for a long time. Um, as it says on the slide, some of the key principles that again,
Nicole, the National Association promotes are things like independence, which is not independent from the government, but independent from the agency that you're doing oversight of, impartiality, due process, having that legitimacy and procedural justice for
everybody, community members, the individuals that work for the public safety agency, and ensuring that everyone is treated fairly and with dignity. Um, I won't read through all the things on the slide, but there are a lot of things that as you implement something need to be carefully looked
at. There are a lot of communities around the country that have done this. There aren't that many in Massachusetts, but there are many, many resources for figuring out how you actually implement something that works. And the last thing I'll say on this is that people will generally ask what's the best form of
oversight or the strongest form of oversight or the most effective. And there is no best model. There's really a best fit for any given community based on your history, your circumstances, your budget, the in the institutions in your community and the types of things
that your community members are looking for. All right. So the next slide please. So there were high level recommendations that as Rabbi Devon said there was consensus on among this very broad group of people that as the charge was there
should be a resident oversight board that's accountable to the town. Um and there was discussion about how that would be accountable both to the town manager as the individual who's managing the day-to-day administration and to the town council as the body saying the policy for the community. uh that as it
says a diverse set of residents and we all know in municipal government we work our best to create a diverse group of people in a relatively small group of those willing to serve but that it really would have people who have a broad diversity of lived experience and
knowledge. Now I'll just say that I'll jump ahead to say it's never just based in civilian oversight on what you bring to the table. That lens is important but you have to get training. uh I won't go on about that but there are many sources of training whether it's consultants the
national association your law department u variety of people from um the state who can talk about open meeting law and public records all of these things are deeply important for civilian oversight and um as you've already heard a couple times centering these values around
equity anti-racism and of course a transparent and accessible complaint process so everyone feels their voice can be heard that they are given the dignity of being able to tell their story, have their situation examined, and have accountability for those who
may have done something wrong, but also for those who might be accused that there is transparency and clarity about what is happening, how it works, and that outcomes are fair and just for everyone. Thank you. So, next slide,
please. The as we've said again, we we tend to say what we're going to say and we say it, right? So the two options that the working group looked at and didn't reach consensus on the model that they wanted to propose and we we tried to get people to consensus and it was
clear that there was not consensus. So the models that we've talked about the review model which is much more common especially for smaller communities with a history like Ammerst or Cambridge um and also an investigatory model because as you've already heard tonight there
are people who feel that you have to have independent investigations for there to be legitimacy. Um I can weigh in on that if people have questions but that's where the working group came out. Um, basically I guess that's really what this says on this slide that some people
felt that the investig investigatory model was necessary to follow the recommendations of the CSWG to provide legitimacy to the community. Other members felt that a review model for the town of Ammerst and the issues and the community that you have would be more
than sufficient and actually a better way to provide um the kind of oversight the community needs. Next slide, please. So again briefly and I'll say I a couple people say I should really try to mention this piece that there are some
basic differences the review model um I'll kind of read this ensures that community has input into complaints that there are people from the community who've been trained they're reviewing these complaints and making recommendations that it can increase public trust knowing that someone is
looking at these complaints that's outside the police department. They're reviewing how the investigations were done and that in these models that review board can disagree with the findings. Now again, the discipline lies with the leadership of the police
department. But having a group of residents who are part of a board can make a huge difference um in terms of supporting positive change in a department. If you have leadership that's wanting to make change, having community members that are driving that change through the perspective of
hearing about what people have experienced, how that was negative, and how people on that board see it can can really support change by leadership in a community. Uh the investigatory model involves as it says taking those investigations out of the department. So
instead of internal affairs or with crest instead of the human um human resources of doing the investigations and making determinations on those complaints that would be done by independent investigators. You will
see in the materials that you received from the working group there a different different ranges of ways people thought that could be done. I'll just say quickly the typical way is trained investigators who are either on staff in larger communities or on retainer you know people who know how to conduct
these kinds of investigations and then as issues come up those invest in investigations take place um they areas was that thunder lightning okay maybe I should speak like this
but in in any case one of the as I said earlier often the reason that you will have outside investigations because there's a history in a community where the results of internal investigations are not trusted um it does involve more expense more you have to have the
staffing or people on retainer and you have to deal with a lot of complexity around collective bargaining around um human resources and personnel issues but it can be done um it's certainly done in communities around the again mostly larger communities. Uh, next slide,
please. So, I think we're almost to the end. So, again, I'll try not to read these. Uh, the working group offered two proposed charges. Now, again, the working group understood it wasn't drafting something that would be enacted immediately, but
as as recommendations to the town council to consider. So the proposed charge for the review model um does say specifically it shall not conduct investigations because if you have that model you want to be clear so that everyone involved people who might have
a complaint people involved in government law enforcement and public safety people understand that this is what the role is and what it is not. And I I don't know that we've mentioned very specifically. One of the things that came up in our process early on was that
the group felt it was important for Crest to be part of this. Not only the Amoris Police Department, but people ended at the after their interaction or lack of interaction with Crest feeling that they had a negative experience or
something was done wrong that they would have the same kind of oversight. so that this body would be having oversight responsibilities for both the Ammerst Police Department and for Crest here at Ammerst. >> And I just want to say Camille was at
the table and she wholeheartedly uh rejoiced I would say in that level of oversight was happy to have it. >> Yeah. So um and I realized that it's come up. I don't know that we had said that explicitly. Uh so with both of
these models you will see there's a focus on fairness but with this one as I I said briefly it would not have independent investigative authority. It would have limited access to investigatory materials as allowed by law but the group also was very strong
on as much as they could. So hopefully that would be things like computer AED dispatch logs, police reports, any video, um if there's a point where there's body worn camera footage to view that all of those things would be accessible to the board as it's doing
its review. Um and those things are generally done executive session. It's not public and this is why you need to be thinking about open meeting law and public records. Um if we go to the next slide and I believe our last slide the investigatory model just to emphasize
this would be a model where um the board or someone it or through the town would commission would do those independent investigations. Uh that would be people who are trained in doing investigations. It would not just be um say a jury kind
of situation where you have a jury and you give them information and they make a judgment. These would be people who had training to do thorough, impartial, fair and thorough invest I said thorough investigations that would meet the standards you would need for collective bargaining agreements for people's
personnel rights. Uh so it's a complicated thing but that would be the model. Uh they would be able to gather evidence, interview witnesses and determine the findings, the outcomes. Um it certainly requires stronger legal and
access provisions. The working group really talked a lot about subpoena power. I can I can go on at great length about subpoena power, but I will say that as an aside, it often comes up in this work and it's very very rarely used because if you get
to the point where you're subpoenaing someone inside your broader governmental organization, you have other problems you're dealing with. Um, so it does have this model of the potential for greater community confidence and outcomes. As I've said twice or thrice, it does
involve much more complexity. And so when we think about best fit um as this body and committees are looking at how to go forward, thinking about that balance of what is necessary, what will do the job, what will help build
confidence and trust broadly in many different dimensions. uh because something that might help some set of people feel more trustworthy might make others feel not trusted and vice versa. So there are some I wouldn't call them trade-offs but there are some balances
almost some polarities that things that are connected and may seem at odds but have to be understood and balanced so that you find the right fit for the town of Ammeris Massachusetts. Uh and I think with that we will finish our formal
presentation. Thank you for your attention and I think we're here to answer any questions. >> My own mic needs to be on. Uh let's begin with questions from the council and um then I also want to introduce the
motion. Andy, >> first of all, thank you for your presentation. Um, I'll I'll just give three quick questions so you don't have to answer all of them right now if you don't have the information. But, um, you know, having worked with the open
meeting law in Massachusetts as you have, um, are there special challenges to doing the work with the Massachusetts open meeting law that doesn't exist in other states? The second question uh and
I don't know if we need to uh bring in our own uh finance department staff is um if there's any estimate of the uh budget total cost of establishing
um the u oversight board under either model. Um and I think that uh that would be something given what you probably heard earlier in the discussion the prior item is uh something that we'll
unfortunately have to think about and um the u third thing that I was uh let's see if I got it. Um, oh, for a police department of our size
and for crest department of our size, is there any number of complaints um over a period of time that would be a typical number that we should be factoring in as we consider all of these questions?
Thank you very much. >> Well, thank you counselor for those questions. Uh I will try to be relatively concise uh because there are not exact answers for any of these. I guess the first one is probably a little more exact. Um what I've learned in my work around the country is that state
laws vary widely and we actually have a fairly conservative public records law as you probably are aware and our open meeting law is is probably a little bit more conservative than some. I mean there are states that have sunshine laws. So what it means is that for a
board it's actually in some ways less fraught to be able to have frank conversations around specific complaints in executive session because they affect they're considered um conversations and discussions around personnel issues
around the conduct of an employee. So, those are conversations that need to happen in executive session and then the minutes of those, however detailed they are, um, will only be released when it's determined that that's no longer something that needs to be held in confidence. Now, there have been some
SJC I'm not a lawyer. I'll say that there are some SJC SJC decisions that affect um police issues in particular because of the compelling public interest. But largely that means that for the most part um those discussions
can happen in a way that are probably more amendable to frank discussions than a discussion in a completely open meeting. Now having said that the other issue around public records request is that um I think it's always an evolving thing in Massachusetts about how much
information from those processes can be given out. So if things are done executive session it that covers a lot of it. If things are done in public session um that may limit the amount of information that can be disclosed and that the board can discuss. So it just
it's it depends on what the issues and what the topics are. Uh in terms of cost, this question has come up a lot in my work and it's it's it's really specific to the community. Um depends on exactly what model you're using. Is there are there dedicated staff who are
doing this that need to be hired? Are there existing staff that this fits into their work? Um if it's an investigatory model, that's a whole other question. But even with a review model, are you able to staff that board? um with the other staffing that you have for boards and commissions. Are you able to provide
the training the recommendation um asks for a stipent? Is that something that's a general practice? Is it something that's easy to add in? What is the level of that stipen? So there's there's not a good answer. I think that is more once a model is determined that that's general then there can be some implementation
questions about how it's structured, how robust it is and then the question about number of complaints. It varies widely. Um I will say in Cambridge we got from it it went down over my years doing the job from 2010 until this last year this
current year. It's went down from but it wasn't a straight line. So we used to get about 15 complaints a year in Cambridge. The police department can also take complaints separately which would probably be the case here. They would get 10 or 15. The last few years um COVID notwithstanding it was more
like four to five and the police department might get two to three. Now that still took a lot of time for the complaint investigations, looking at all the materials, but the number of the comp of complaints was quite low. Most communities find that the numbers there's an assumption that once you have
a more robust public way that people can feel confident making complaints, the numbers will go up. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Even New Orleans, which has a huge long history of severe police misconduct, um the last time I talked to the staff there, they get between 60 and 70 complaints a year in a
city of about 300,000 people with again a very troubled history around policing. That was a long answer. >> I I want to add a couple of things. One is that we did ask for data from the police department regarding how many complaints they were getting and that
data was not good. I mean, they were it wasn't helpful. is what I mean. So, there's not a historical record that's going to help us figure out um how many cases we'll see. And part of it, the reason is that people were are reluctant
to speak to them. And then part of the reason is that they were getting information. They counted like every crank call um in their database. I don't remember what it is like. At any rate, there w it wasn't illuminative is what I
would say. Um, so we couldn't use it to ascertain we couldn't see say past this prologue or you know this is what we can expect. All that being said, given the size of the town of Ammerst, I think expecting between three and
five, you know, as a ballpark, an educated guess in the first couple of years until people know about it is is not a crazy estimate. Um, the other thing I want to say is the estimate of budget costs, as Brian said,
depends on what kind of model you use. and we weren't charged with that question of creating a draft budget for whatever proposal we came up with. Um, but part here are some of the thing variables that would need to be taken
into account. If let's say you had a review model and so you didn't need to hire independent investigators, could the DEI office handle the complaints with their current staffing or not? The answer is yes. then it might
not be a budget increase. If the answer is no, then it would there would be required staffing, right? So there are variables. It's not just how much time it takes, but what is the capacity that you already have on board?
So yeah, just a couple of thoughts. >> Okay. >> Do you want to >> Andy, was there a follow on? >> No. >> Okay. Uh Pam Rooney, >> thank you and thank you for the presentation. The voices coming from heaven.
Um let's see where's where's the question? Oh yeah. Um remind me please of the term length of a a participant on the resident oversight board given that there's a fair amount of um training to
be had. Um, how I I've forgotten in reading the material how long the per the person would stay on the board. That's something we can just look up. Three three years. Okay. >> Got it. Okay. >> Staggered. Three years. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Um, and then >> can you tell me just a little bit about some of the resolutions that have been reached in these other communities given the personnel record? I'll just say secrecy, but it's, you know, personal
records and the and the uh legal requirement to protect employees. How do how do you come to resolutions? I think primarily in Massachusetts because there aren't that many models. There's Cambridge, uh Boston has an
office of police accountability and transparency and a civilian review board. And then Springfield has a board of police commissioners which has changed recently from a somewhat similar but slightly different model. In all of those cases, uh the boards are reviewing
complaints but the discipline is still being done by the police department. So you so that's in a way that's kind of how you square that circle is that you haven't taken disciplinary authority out of the police as an institution. So there can be recommendations that are
made, but it's still up to the appointing authority to ultimately make decisions. And there can be, you know, there can be some difference about what the police chief might be able to do versus the town or city manager or mayor depending on the level of discipline if it's termination. It often goes beyond
the police chief, but that is that is generally not the work of a civilian oversight board. And then in not to get too much in the weeds, but in Springfield, they have had a model where the board of police commissioners actually act acts as hearing officers
for um hearings for officers under discipline. So in that case, even though they're on that board, they have to work as hearing officers. So that's not technically the board meeting and convening to do that work. So there are a lot of different ways to do it.
I don't have an I don't have a further comment for you, but I realized I wanted to respond uh to another piece of the cost. Um when Brian and I submitted our uh proposal, it included training for
the startup of the oversight board. So, and to my understanding, Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong, um there is money that's already set aside for that for that initial training. So when you're considering like uh it wouldn't be another budget um allocation
of course it won't come to us if you don't set up the oversight board but it is I understand it's set aside >> and and then I should have said well I'm trying to be brief because I could I talk I I'm so passionate about this work I can talk all day. Um the one of the things about training is that it's like
continuing education. You want it's not just okay we're going to train people on the open meeting law now you've got it run. it's that you need continuous training to refresh yourselves on new ideas on how to do things again when there aren't that many complaints. You're not it's not something you're doing every day. So, the National
Association Nicole has an annual training conference. It just wrapped up last week in Minneapolis. It brings together hundreds of people and um even though I'm not on the board anymore, it was it's always been invaluable for me to go and get um new ideas, meet people.
It's really seinal and it's also very important that people get training as I kind of mentioned from the police department on how they do their training, what their standards are, how they look at use of force, what their policies and procedures are. Because if you're judging in any way, whether
review or investigatory, if officers are doing what they're asked to do, what they're trained to do, you have to actually have a decent level of understanding. You don't have to have a legal understanding, but you need to know what those policies are and then be able to reference those policies when
there's a specific complaint that says they've been violated. So, that sort of training is part of the cost. I mean, that it's not massive. It's not astronomical, but it is a cost that is not simply one time. Um,
councelor Hani, >> thank you. Um, I have a lot of questions. I think some of them are for go though as they go through it. Um, so I'll I'll try and figure out which ones would be best for you all. Um, the memo Paul sent says that there are few models
for resident oversight boards for community our our size and then it talks about the three in Massachusetts that are in communities that are nowhere close to our size. Um, do you have any models in any part of the country for a community of approximately 20 to 40,000
people? Um, would be helpful to know. Um, how has Cambridge and Boston dealt with the postcommission laws >> um since that came into effect?
>> Um, is is one I have. And then um in talking about training, if we were to go with an investigatory model, it seemed strange to me that there weren't training recommendations on HR practices, how to do an
investigation, um how to do interviews, how to keep things confidential and what you're allowed to ask, what you might not be allowed to ask, things like that. at least it didn't seem obvious to me in any of the documents we had that those those types of trainings were even
recommended in an investigatory model. So can you speak to that? Um and then um let me see there was one other one. Oh. Um, in the draft bylaw,
the membership prohibited current and former police officers from being members of the resident oversight board, which didn't seem to have any restriction to where you were a police officer or when. So, a
police officer in Minneapolis um from 30 years ago would not be able to be on this board from my reading of this, but it only prohibited current Crest staff from being on the board, not former Crest staff and not former staff of any
similar body in a different town. Can you speak to why those those prohibitions are not like similar? Guess I'll start and um All right. Well, thank you counselor for
the questions. You know, and I I apologize. I'm a little tired today. It's been a long day and I know it's been a long day for all of you as well. So, one te one one community comes to mind, which is not exactly the same in many ways, is Oak Park, Illinois. Um Oak Park is a suburb of Chicago. It's about 50,000 people.
So, I was I didn't realize that half of the 40,000 might be students until someone said that today. Uh but in terms of um kind of the community vibe, the politics of Oak Park, it's a little different that it's right on the border of the city of Chicago. So they have some different issues. I mean, no places
no two places are exactly the same, but they have then they just have gone through a process of reviewing their model which goes back to their early 1980s. So they are they have had a review model. They're looking at keeping a review model and they also get about 8
to 10 complaints a year. Um, now I'm and I apologize. I wrote down Oak Park, but I'm trying to remember why you you asked about similar just are there other similar suit? Yeah, and there are a few places um that might be similar. I know that Deb has had conversations with Ithaca. Um, I think Ithaca is kind of an
outlier, but everyone's an outlier in small oversight. >> Also, Eugene, Oregon, I I lived in Portland for a while. So, >> yeah. And yeah, Eugene is I mean, in some ways similar. It's about 160,000 people and Eugene is an outlier in that.
They often get two or 30 hundred complaints a year and I've never understood how that is and why that is. And that's also the home of um >> the University of Oregon. >> The University of Oregon, but I was going to say the alternative response program that everybody is looking at and
I know it's the the white uh the White Dove Clinic, but I can't remember the name they normally use. Um so, you know, there's it's hard to compare. It's not just apples and oranges. It's like apples and boulders sometimes. But the let's see post I'll say briefly
>> we did talk about post and the police department representatives gave some information about post. The interesting thing about post is that it it doesn't really have that much intersection with civilian oversight in the sense that all complaints um are within certain
categories which is most of what you would ever deal with in our work go to the post commission and they only do investigations when they find when they feel that they should and a local police department has chosen not to do an investigation. So they're not doing a
lot of investigations. Uh they're much more focused on certification and descertification. So Massachusetts is a latecomer to that. We were one of five states that did not have certification basically licensing of police officers. So that is their primary function and
they've recently descertified a few officers which like most other states means that they are not able to work as police officers and their names are also in a database so that they if some other departments interested in hiring them they will easily be able to discover
that they have been descertified and why that is. Um so there so it comes up a lot there's a lot of conversation about post and about not running a foul of post. The reality is post is not generally doing investigations. So those are usually done by the internal affairs
or professional standards unit. Um >> before you move on, I actually wanted to speak to the um comparable towns. Uh a little bit more about Ithaca. Um the population is comparable and the student ratio is also comparable. their
board is a full investigatory body board and um which is unusual, really unusual. So they have this, you know, they're as small as we are and they have an investigatory board and as Brian has mentioned several times, usually
investigatory bodies are in much larger cities where with consent degrees or you know serious um fatalities or use of force. So at any rate, but there is an example out there and I spoke at length with their the chair of their board who um
is a former department head in some kind of health and human services department in New York State and she had run investigators extrajudicial investigations in her former career. she was retired and so they had this level
of expertise about how to do this work um in their you know civilian staff non-legal staff that was also very unusual. So I'll just say that and I want to say one thing about post um just because the union uh brought this up
about 17 times they were concerned about double jeopardy. They were making a legal argument that I just want to say is specious like what the work that post does is very separate than the work of a resident oversight board as Brian was
saying because mostly because they don't do investigations but even when they do it's >> excuse me >> even when they do an investigation it's because uh of things that don't happen here in Emmers use of force fatalities you know wounding
>> yeah so it's just a different animal >> okay >> so I just have to say that because it got under my skin. >> It did get under her skin. I I will say I understood why people were saying it. I feel that um it's from the perspective of being stakeholders, there was a
concern about fair treatment and that was how it got expressed and I know I'm not an attorney. Rabbi Dev is so I think you know landed a little differently. Um let's see couple more questions. Um, oh, in terms of it was interesting you were asking counselor about specific
recommendations about training for investigators. I think it would never have occurred to me because if you have investigators, they need to get training and there's lots of training specifically for investigators who are doing issues around policing as well as more general investigations about HR and
misconduct. So, I mean that would be an absolute that there would have to be specific investigator training. Also again Nicole offers that but there are lots of people who do that as consultants um from various backgrounds who are former police who are former
prosecutors who are attorneys um who are HR professionals there's lots of different sources um and that would be vital if there were investigatory model and membership um what would I say this comes up a lot there are certain things
that in this work come up a lot and one of the themes is how could we trust someone who is a police officer, a former police officer, a relative of a police officer to fairly investigate or make a decision about someone else
because whatever you might think. Um there are variety of opinions about this. I think within the stakeholder group where people came to was you know sort of trying to reach consensus. Um and I think Deb did a a wonderful job. the very difficult thing of trying to
help people get to a point where the composition and the restrictions felt okay enough to everybody. Um, but it wasn't I wouldn't say there was some, you know, matrix framework where we we kind of plugged all the boxes in and it came out exactly here. It was kind of
where the group landed through conversation and what people felt comfortable with. But ultimately, there are oversight boards that mandate you have to have one or two people with public safety experience so that they can bring that perspective. And people will argue that that's really important
because often they will see things as wrong that someone who's not uh doesn't have that law enforcement background or public safety background would think was fine. They would say, "No, there are places where you cannot have anybody because of that sense that how could they fairly adjudicate someone who's
done the same thing that they have?" um even if it's not really adjudication. So, it's it's kind of wherever people fall. There isn't really in this field a right or wrong answer. Um it's ultimately how a community feels it can move forward as the board that
creates procedural justice and legitimacy that fits for what you need to do. >> Can can I just follow up? >> Sure. >> Put a finer point on it. It's about trust. people trust Crest or the people in that room trusted Crest and they
don't trust the police officers to fairly adjudicate themselves. So that's why it's different at every municipality. The level of trust is different. Um I I can assure you Chief Ting would have liked to have had um police representation on this body. I'm
I'm definitely remember him saying that, but that's just not where the group could end up. So, I I think you might have answered my question. I was more concerned with not why aren't police allowed on the body more than anything. You know, I I get
that issue. I was more concerned with why if they're in charge of investigating both police misconduct and crest misconduct, why police aren't allowed on but crest former are allowed on and why those two instances were
treated differently. And I think you you got a little bit to that. Um, did I interpret it right that no police officer, no matter where you served, would be allowed on. >> Um, I I didn't print it out just because it was so big and I didn't pull it up,
but I don't I thought it was people who had been ammer and we had a whole discussion about it, but I think it was people who had been >> Ammeris. >> So, what does it say? >> No member should be a current or former police officer, a staff member of press. Okay.
>> But not a former staff press or an immediate family member of a police officer staff. >> But it also says that there has to be at least one person with law enforcement or criminal justice expertise. And so folks
imagine you could have a professor of law who has, you know, expertise in criminal justice or you could have a district attorney or, you know, there there's a number of folks that you could have who would have that. And yeah, and it's it's funny because
when I read this, I I I read it as a current or former police officer or staff member of Crust, but I but I think that that reading is correct. And I I'll say it this way. I think that as this body makes its determinations again through committees and that's something
that that this body will want to think about what is the right answer for Ammeris. I mean that was what the working group came to but ultimately what you come to will be what happens in town as it should be. >> Is there any other questions councelor
Hannity? Okay. Um councelor >> I had three questions. Um first of all thank you so much for your work and the time that you put into it. Um, so one of the words that has been used quite a lot tonight is trust. And
so my question is in your experience, how does an oversight body gain the trust of the police or crest in
this case considering that these are also members of the community and trust is needed for the work to be effective. Um, second question is where does the UMass police fit in? I have had
interactions with the police in town and I can tell you I don't know who I had the interaction with whether it was the town police or UMass police and we've heard
that for particular members of the community there is using that word again a lack of trust of the police but I'm sure that in that poll there wasn't and you didn't distinguish between whether
it's again town or the university. So where does you must come in? And then my final question would be what would success for this body look like in Ammerst?
>> I keep going first. You should >> I don't know if I should but okay I will. Um, trust. Uh, again, this is something I can I could talk about at great length. I probably spent half an hour on this in our training with the board um with the
working group, excuse me. I think building trust with uh the police department, other public safety with Crest here. Uh, it really involves people feeling that you're it's well, it goes back to this idea of procedural justice, right? that people feel that
they're being listened to, that the people who they're working with are being fair and impartial, that they they have a voice, that their experience is valued, and that um they understand the processes, they understand people's
motivations, they understand why these things are happening. And if if and that's true with any large institution or government or university for that matter, these ideas of procedural justice which go fairly far back but have really been promoted uh through
people at Yale Law School uh professor uh Tracy Mir's former dean of the law school and professor Tom Tyler. They've done a huge amount of work that has been influential in policing but other fields and I would say also in civilian oversight. And so specifically though to
a little bit more to your question, it it's it would be important say specifically in Ammerst to be able to ensure that police officers and crest responders felt that people on the board were coming with their lived experience were understanding the reasons the board
was created, why the town council did it, and that they were being treated fairly. they were being listened to, that they weren't being prejudged, that the evidence was being weighed honestly. If it's a review model, that people aren't coming in assuming that the police always do the wrong thing and
they have the power. So, we have to stop that power, but they're coming in to look um impartially and fairly even while they bring their lived experience and knowledge. Uh, and that that can be a big lift, but part of it is starting from the beginning, making sure that
you're building those relationships, making sure that you're out there in the community talking to people, but you're also going on ride alongs with the police department. You're I'm not sure exactly how the crest responders work, but if that you are to the extent possible able to accompany Crest and see
how they do their work. So, it's not only anecdotes, it's not only complaints, but that you're seeing other aspects of their work. Um, >> what I heard was the question, how does the police uh develop trust in the oversight body,
not the community develop trust of the police. So, I want to make sure we get that. >> No, that's what I'm trying to say. That's what the oversight body would have to be doing so that there was there was trust developed so that that that the police would see that they actually were being seen as people not
>> I I would be more concrete and say when uh you've got a group of people all looking at the same body of evidentiary proof and drawing the same conclusions that's a trust building exercise right
so Um and that doesn't happen now. You know, there's community doesn't have the same information as the police. There's not a discussion about what the information means. Um so whether it's a review body or an investigatory body, once you're engaged in the process of deep diving
into the evidentiary uh material, I think that's inherently trust building. Um, I also think that uh community members, members of the oversight board, um, when they express responsiveness to concerns that police raise, um, when
they express when they see I, I think something I saw over the course of my time working um, as a community representative on police issues, um, the level of trauma that a lot of police officers live with and the need for uh, trauma-informed care for police
officers. officers and suspicion therapy and time off and you know support um yeah so I think that there everybody becomes humanized you know so it's the combination of the humanization and the
evidentiary engagement concrete evidence that's what I would say >> and um not to not to go off on tangents but I think that's one of the things that when you're looking at this idea of review versus investigatory an investigator body sort of presumes this
external investigation is going to find more truth than reviewing internal investigations. If you're thinking more broadly about how to build trust in community in mutual ways, a review model may do that more effectively. That was kind of my shortand in the slide. Um all
right, so there are other um in terms of the UMass police, I I mean I think the simple answer is they're not under the town. Um, and this is, you know, in Cambridge, we have Harvard and MIT police. I mean, the the sort of granular
thing is that when a complaint comes in, you there's a process to determine who were who were the officers involved and it becomes clear pretty quickly if that was not a city of Cambridge police officer. Um, so that's around doing specific complaints. I mean, in terms of
how you can build trust when there are other police departments interacting with residents of the town, I mean, that's just a a challenging question. And I'm not, you know, I don't know what the conversations are in Amorest around town gown and the relationships. I'm
sure the departments have their own relationship, but trying to find ways to support people who have had negative experiences with university police departments. And then the other piece I just always want to mention is that people's experience of the police is not
limited to what happens in the town of Ammerst. People have experiences from other parts of their lives. They have experiences from relatives and friends. They have experiences from the media. And often I think for police and other law enforcement folks and public safety
sometimes it's frustrating to think that you're judging me based on what happened in another city or what happened to your cousin. and that's the reality. So there's only so much you can do in your community. But I think so it's not I don't really have a great answer for your question other than to acknowledge
it's a real issue and um it's going to be hard to continue to build trust with the Amoris Police Department if people are having negative experiences with the UMass Police Department that are unattrust and I don't I don't know what mechanisms you have as a town to make a
difference on that. >> It's a show of success. I just want to say one more thing about trust. Um, as a clergy person, I'm painfully aware that everyone's religious wounding gets projected onto
me and I signed up for that. So, one of the things that I think can happen as a result of more interaction between citizens or residents and the police is that police get to understand that whether or not they personally did
anything, they are carrying the projection of all police that people have and they signed up for it. So rather than being bitter or resentful or rejecting of that reality, I think police need to get
that's part of the job. Just like I as a rabbi get that people will project onto me all their anger at God, all their anger at what they, you know, how sexist or homophobic their, you know, pastor was when they grew up, whatever
it is. So part of trust building is everybody needs to get a grip on reality and that this is the deal. There are police who kill people whether it happens in Ammerst or not. You have to you take that on. That's
part of what it is. And so I don't know there's a there's a there's a level of accountability, responsibility, humility, and reality I think that everybody starts getting engaged with when you start working with the same evidence and you start
working with the projections. >> Um there was one more question. >> Okay. Uh I one more question from another person. >> No, that you had. >> Yes, there was. Um, I think the last thing I'll say is that again I I I do think that well this will
this will lead into this is I think p one of the things that would make it successful would be more perspective taking and it's not and not just one direction I I'll build on what Rabbi Deb said to say that it's also helping community members to understand what
police undergo um and that doesn't you know that doesn't mean necessarily feeling sorry for oh they're so but but to understand on some level the nature of policing and the ways in which police are deeply traumatized. One of my specific areas of interest in his work
is the role of trauma in relationships between police and the communities they serve and the ways it affects all of these different individuals and often these terrible situations or where they intersect. So helping people to do perspective taking for police officers
and law enforcement people and public safety folks to have a deeper appreciation for the impact that they have on people even if it's not what they meant even if they thought they were doing the person a favor. But it's also to help community members have some perspective on what officers are
experiencing, what it's like to go from call to call to call some days. what it's like to see people at the having the worst day of their lives or some some of the most traumatic things that happen. They're the ones who are the ones who are called to show up and not
that you're going to make everybody feel great about everybody else, but to help do that perspective taking. And some of that's deep listening. Some of that is um I will I guess I would say slightly different variation, not working off shared evidence, but having people in shared processes where they can see the
humanity of each other. I mean, you're not going to have restorative justice circles around police complaints, but thinking about how a resident oversight board can foster processes where that's there's that kind of dialogue and understanding. And then the last big thing around success is that what you
start to see is not just back-end accountability, right? Not just there was a complaint, there was an investigation, here were the findings, we made a recommendation that maybe some policy changes and look, we had an impact or that person felt heard and validated or this officer received some
discipline. but instead that you have people in the community who are working with or through or on the resident oversight board able to have a positive impact to look at what are the policies, what are the kinds of training that we want for the Amoris Police Department, how do we want to support our first
responders and our responders at Crest? What are the types of things that we need to put in place so that we're not having complaints? So that people aren't having negative experiences. And when you see that there's this front-end accountability that this board is playing an active role in creating the
kind of public safety people want, I think that will be the biggest measure of success. There are smaller measures that people feel heard and validated, complaints are addressed, but that that shift where people feel that policing really belongs to the community and public safety belongs to the community
and that those first responders are again they're doing something that community wants them to do and the community has had a voice in creating it and designing it and implementing it and to me that would be uh the best form of success.
Alicia. >> Um, thank you. >> I'm sorry, Councelor Walker. >> Thank you, Lynn. Um, thank you both, uh, for your presentation. Um, I have a question for you and also possibly a question for Lynn. Um, I'm wondering, and I think Andy touched on this a
little bit in terms of Massachusetts open meeting law. I think his was more in the view of what that would mean in terms of like personnel information. I'm wondering what that would mean for folks who are submitting complaints. Is there any ability for anonymity in complaints
from residents? >> Okay, that's a a really great question and it comes up a lot. Um, so it's it's ultimately that's really a policy around the um process inside the police department. And now that could have that
could be connected to a resident oversight board. But most police departments do take anonymous complaints because as part of that HR function and discipline and training, they want to know when something happens whether a person is willing to file a formal complaint because it informs how they're
doing their supervision, any discipline, retraining. Uh it may affect policy and how they do the training overall, not just for a specific officer. And so when you develop some sort of oversight system there there needs to be a
decision about whether or not they will take anonymous complaints. Um and then what happens to those? So it's so there there are definitely ways to do that. Now the challenge is if there's an anonymous complaint the it can be harder for an investigation to happen because
often people feel like I told as somebody who's taken many complaints over my years I told you all you need to know. Go figure it out. And often that's not really sufficient for an investigation. Um, so it can be hard to get enough information without being able to talk to a complainant. So you
can get to a finding. It may just be that you get this complaint, we tried to look into it, we didn't have enough information, and so we can't really make a determination about whether the officer violated policy or not or maybe even who the officer was. So having said that, so you can always have ways for
there to be anonymity. Now the flip side is if people make a formal complaint um one of the things that we discovered in Cambridge with rulings over the last few years from around open meeting law from the uh not the director of records but the
individual who's um in charge of public records at the state is that complaints are considered public records. So if someone files a complaint um and they write share their information that can be obtained by the media or other
members of the public um so it it has not in Cambridge in my experience been a deterrent but it's something that I had to tell people um and and generally I found that people like no that's fine but so I kind of went over the place but hopefully I answered your question
counselor. >> Yes that was helpful. Thank you. Um, and then Lynn, possibly a process question because this recommend I know the vote is to refer to go, but because this was brought to us with two different options, where does the decision as to
which option we're going with happen? Does that happen in G? Do they bring us that recommendation or will they just vet that, bring it back to us, and we make that uh decision at the next time this comes back to the council? >> Outstanding question. Um, can I just
suggest that I believe that what we're going to have to do is refer this to G, ask G to come back with a process by how we're going to go look at this because uh, in addition to everything else, this council only has about less than two
months of its time. This is an obviously heavy and weighty discussion and unbelievably important. So I um I don't think we have a solid answer for how we're going to do that, but I think we should uh leave open the
possibility that go could at least come back with a recommendation for a process to have a look at it. >> Okay. Thank you. And do we know when if this is if it is voted to be referred to go when that will appear on a go agenda?
>> That we don't know. >> I can provide a little bit of insight. Go ahead, Anna. Where are you? Anna, was that you that said you could provide some insight?
>> Anna's been having some connectivity issues because they lost power in South Amoris with the storm. So, she may have just lost a connection for a moment. >> Okay. Uh I will work with the chair of G to figure that out. >> Okay. I had a couple of other comments that I wanted to make and then maybe if
Anna uh is having connection after she can come back to that. Um but I did just want to make a couple of comments um as someone who was on the CSWG and worked on some of the original recommendations. Um, one for any counselors who have like
a very strong vested interest in the resident oversight board and learning more, you can go back to the CSWG recommendation because we did look at many different communities across the United States that have uh these boards and all of that information is in our
report and we did look at um, Ithaca, we did look at Eugene Origin, we did look at Springfield and all of that information is in that original report. Um, I will also mention that I did personally speak with someone who was on the Springfield uh resident oversight board and they spoke to difficulties
with their sort of setup of having uh I believe it was the police commissioner or somebody um on the board and also without h having the ability to have subpoena power and that they felt like the board was uh ineffective because
they didn't have the ability to actually um enforce the police to hand over records for video cam footage. Even though that might be in the review committee's uh sort of purview, there is nothing to enforce that and they found a lot of issues with that in Springfield.
And so I did want to bring that again to the forefront when we're thinking about which model to go with is efficacy because I think above everything else, above cost, above every anything, efficacy is going to be the most important thing here. Um I also just wanted to hopefully remind us to stay
grounded in the fact that this is a resource for our residents. Um, and so as much as there this is going to require collaboration with the police department and require buyin from the police department and police unions, um, I want to make sure that we're not losing the fact that when the CSWG spoke
to BIPO residents in this town that they did report um, distrust with the APD very specifically, not the UMass PD. Not saying that that wasn't the case, but we very specifically asked about the APD. um and that there was a lack of trust to
even file a complaint. Um and so while I expect or I don't think we can reasonably um estimate the amount of complaints we will get in the first couple of years and that might be lower numbers I think once folks start to see or start to build trust in these
processes which will have to happen over time and some folks might sit back and watch for a while before they decide that they trust this body. Um, but that we will I guess I don't want to say hopefully because I don't hope that we will have an increase in complaints, but I hope that folks will feel more comfortable doing so because I think
that the cases right now that there are folks who are not comfortable submitting complaints because they go to the PD. Um, and so I think you know what a successful board looks like is uh a safer community, residents not living in fear, improved community relationships, and like all of these things again will
take time. Um, so this feels like a very important recommendation for me. Um, it feels like I heard from a lot of community members that this is a very important recommendation. Um, and I love that we would be including Crest in this, but I do want to emphasize that while Crest cannot take dispatch calls
and we do not know when that will happen, it is even more important for this recommendation to be moving forward. Um, so I just want to leave maybe that for the council and for anyone who is on go to think about. >> Thank you. I think that is
>> Bob Hegner. I'm sorry, Anna, you're back. >> I'm so sorry. I lost power and had the bad luck of getting it back right when I was about to talk, so my phone struggled with me. Um, apologies for that. Uh G does have a number of items left on our
agenda, primarily the town manager goals, but uh so this is something I guess if we're trying to it depends a little bit on what the motion to go is as to whether or not this will be something that go can get back to the council in this term. Um I think that you know establishing a full process or
debating between two two different uh iterations. Um those those each take a not insignificant amount of time. And this this is a topic that deserves a lot of focus and care. So I go would be able
to get it on an agenda likely in late November, not our next meeting, but possibly the meeting after. Um but what I do not know is how quickly we'd be able to turn it around. So sorry I don't have a cleaner answer for you. >> Thanks Anna. >> Sorry, Lynn. If I can thank you, Anna,
that's helpful. I just have to step away from being in the inerson meeting, but I will rejoin virtually. So thank you. and when you we'll make sure you can hear and be heard when you come back in. You can also be on your phone on the way
home, but drive carefully, please. Um Bob Hegner. >> Yeah, I have I have uh two questions. Um first is who decides which cases or which incidents the board reviews? Uh,
and the second question I have is, have any communities started out with one model and switched to the other model? And if so, why? >> All right. Um, let's see. So, generally that's part of an ordinance or um a
charter depending on the the model in your community that what kind of complaints um in Cambridge it's any complaint. Um and so a lot now again Cambridge Cambridge's model goes back to the 1980s. It was one of by the first 15
oversight bodies and now we have over 200. Um mostly in medium and large cities but some in smaller places. Um so it it really depends. There are places uh where for example in New York I should know this after all these years
they have four categories that their civilian complaint review board can take on. And um it's I that abbreviation is FADO and I never remember what it means. It's like disorderly conduct um discrimination. I can't. But in any
event, you there can be a decision based on um what your community wants to do. And I think if you got to the point of trying to figure it out, there's a lot of ways to get specific recommendations. But my gut would be in a place like Ammerst where you you know what notwithstanding what people might
imagine I don't anticipate you would ever get a ton of complaints and in I should have said in Cambridge and Oak Park and similar places most of the complaints are about conduct. It's about how people felt they were treated or they felt that the officer should not
have interacted with them or I called the police and they didn't do anything and they people felt the police didn't take action. So most of those are not things that involve um you know long deep investigations. They can still take quite a while but it's not looking at
use of force policies. It's not looking reconstructing scenes. Um and the other oh uh there are definitely communities that have changed their model. Um one that comes to mind because I've done some work with them is Berkeley California where they in the last few
years they did a charter change on the ballot. It's California. everything goes on the ballot and they changed from a a review model to an investigatory model. Um, you know, Berkeley is about 120,000 people, you know, big university community, very progressive and very
active and um and they have they have a very robust office that does systemic reviews as well as investigations of specific complaints. And I think that was really driven by some of the challenges they faced. Um like a lot of places in California, they've had very
serious issues with unhoused persons and the treatment that they've received at the hands of police. Um lots of interactions with university and students. So uh there are many other places, but for example, Oak Park, which I mentioned, they've done a review and they're most likely u sticking with the
review model, but switching the model so that they have dedicated staffing. Right now there's no there's been no staffing in Oak Park for the oversight function. So to have someone who can actually take complaints in uh because that's generally these days seen as a an effective practice in most places is
that you can make complaints at the police department but ideally you want someone outside the police department who can take those complaints so people do come in and feel that there's someone they can give them to. Um that was two short questions. >> I just want to say that um I think by
the nature of of oversight boards um because there's an agreement that trust building and um the e increased efficacy of policing and increase willingness of people to come forward if they have a concern. These are all such strong
values that um by by the by its nature it lends itself to continuous improvement or redirection. If this model was selected for whatever reason and then we have you know 50 cases over the course of five years and we realize oh in order to achieve those goals of
efficacy and trust building and responsiveness etc etc a different model makes more sense. So I think it's I don't know how common it is but it seems like it's baked into the values of
>> this I think this is not that relevant for emers but I will just say because this will come up when people talk about the field there are larger communities that have created additional layers of oversight um Chicago and basically a narrative that can be true but also also can be a trope is
that oversight has failed um so we need to create another level or another layer of oversight And in some cases that's been true. Seattle, Chicago under federal consent decrees or state consent decrees to mandate reforms. There's also often I think one of the things I didn't say
early on is that you want to be very thoughtful when you create oversight about saying what it is and what it's not because very often people will say oversight has failed because it's failed to meet expectations that may not have been reasonable considering what the oversight model is, what the body is
there to do, what its ability is or even the level of concern that people have may not be something that can be addressed through oversight. So there have been those kinds of changes and there's often a lot of talk about that because advocates from the ACLU, my former employer will come in and we need
to create this type of oversight that's different or additional and then five or 10 years later people say we still are receiving complaints. And I think it's it's one of those challenges that you don't want to say there will always be complaints, there's nothing you can do about it. But also if you're not doing that front-end accountability, backend
accountability will never end problems. I mean, looking at what went wrong can help you change things in the future, but just holding people accountable for misconduct is never enough. Pat, >> yeah, I have a question is really asking
for clarification for myself. Uh looking at uh in the um investigator investigatory we're talking about relevant evidence uh incident reports dispatch logs audio
and it reviews that are completed internal investigation records not include videos and things like that I mean my interpretation would be yes they do include so it's just those when
it's a complete investigation all those records are part of the investigation um if the board's doing investigations or having an investigator do them on its behalf then that entity needs to have those resources >> right so the councelor Walker's concern
that if it were review that maybe all the evidence wouldn't be available is not necess it the internal investigation records include the same things that an investigatory
um resident oversight board would be getting. >> Yes. And the reality in the in the real world, right, is that >> you've seen this in many places where there are tensions because um ultimately the the chief administrative officer of
the community is the person that has the ability to direct staff. And when you have a community where say the mayor is not insisting that the police commissioner, police chief is making their staff provide everything to the oversight entity, you run into problems
because there often is resistance. That doesn't mean it's going to happen in every community. But it's more often than not there's a point where it's like, well, we can't give that to you because this is an active criminal investigation and that would undermine and then it becomes a judgment call. And
who gets to make that call? And ultimately it kind of has to go up to the top because then this is why you want to have oversight inside the government. There are people that advocate for it to be some external function outside of the municipal or local government. But um so ultimately it's going to it's going to depend on
that town or city administrator saying that this needs to happen and whether that's a review model or investigatory model. And I think subpoena power, subpoena power comes up a lot. And I will say that the ACLU in particular, but also a lot of activists will say you
have to have subpoena power. And in Cambridge, the board has had subpoena power since 1983. And for at least 28 years, I know it has not used subpoenas. Uh because ultimately if you're at the point where you're trying to subpoena another city
department to give you a record that someone in the administration could say give it to them. I mean that's why that's why I sort of said in a shorthand way you've got other problems. So I I know this comes up a lot and people on boards will say we're stymied because the police won't give us what we want. I
know that that's happened specifically in Berkeley and they've been public about it which is why I would say it in this forum that when they changed the charter to give them more authority they actually found the police suddenly became much more resistant and they actually got less information than they had. Now that doesn't mean it's always
going to happen but there can be unintended consequences. So it's as I say trying to find the right balance and the right fit for your community and your situations and then that may change over time. there may need to be examination and say is this model actually still working for us how do we
do we need to change it and and there will be different perspectives on what working means but a great way >> I'll just add another anecdote again from Etha um they don't have subpoena power there but they have um a culture
an expectation that every document requested is provided and it is and that requires town leadership or that's going to make sure that the police chief is held accountable to information sharing.
So yeah, there's many paths and you know to get where you want to go. But again, if the goal is building trust, uh whether you have subpoena power or you have this uh expectation that a town manager or a mayor is going to require
uh compliance with requests, um you have if you're going to build trust, you have to reveal, you have to share the information one way. >> Yeah. >> And and I'll just say specifically in Cambridge, part of what I was saying is that it was never an issue. You know, we didn't always agree on how to do things,
but there was never a point where it's like you can't have this because we had that expectation. And I think everybody knew if it came down to it, we went to the city manager, the city manager would say this is what the ordinance says. You got to follow the ordinance. The law department might weigh in or something, but
>> there might be ways to state that in u the setup of the Yeah. >> Yeah. And there are a lot of models out there. I mean, every ordinance is different. It's different. >> Thank you very much both of you. >> Um we want to thank you very much for
this. Um I'm going to um we may have to have you come back at some point. I'm sure we will. Uh but more importantly, um what I need to do now is put a motion on the floor and see
where we go. And before I do that, let me just say I'm going to give a date in this motion. And the date is be going to be December 15th. And the reason it's going to be December 15th is because we're not going to bind the future
council. And so the reality is GO in their uh carryover report at a minimum needs to speak to this and at a maximum they should come back to us on
the 15th at the latest. and I we'll be talking about that issue in a moment. Um they need to come back to us with a process andor a plan for how they plan to uh tackle this or to recommend to the council how it should be tackled. Uh
this is um a very very important conversation for our community. Uh and so in making this motion, I also want to make sure that we not only do we thank our consultants and the committee that got us to this point, but thank the CSWG
for their initial work and their report and the CSSJC for continuing with this on their recommendations. So, I'm going to refer I'm going to make the motion and seek a second to refer the post proposed resident oversight board charge
and bylaw to the governance organization and legislation committee with a report to the town council by December 15, 2025. Is there a second? >> Wow. >> All right. Are there any further conversations or discussion? Anna,
>> I just had a question. Lyn, you said you didn't want to bind the hands of the future council, but I'm I'm confused how we're not I I'm not disagreeing with this and and G may have to call some extra meetings to get that back to the council for the 15th, but I'm confused
how this would this seems to me like we're more binding the hands of the future council by expressly defining the process by which they will handle this given the fact that we likely will not get through the full process before the end of the term. So I
that's um if you could just clarify that point a little bit I would appreciate it. >> So given what given the fact that we have um I just counted it. I think it's seven Mondays between now and December 22nd
um assuming we won't meet on the 29th uh of December. Uh the question is going to be whether or not go can actually deal with this or whether they will come back and come back to the recommendation to the council. It's a bylaw. Generally we
have two readings for all bylaws. Uh and then the second thing is um if you don't if go does not come back with a recommendation they at least need to come back with a progress report and they need to speak to it in the carryover memo.
That's how council business is done at the end of >> I understand how council business is done at the end of the term. I was trying to figure out in your motion uh in your in leading up to the motion you talked about go establishing a process by which to handle this. And then I was
trying to understand whether you were intending the council to vote on that process or whether you were intending go to do a more substantive review um so that I can plan the agendas out for for G. I think it would be important for G to come forward with a recommendation one
way or another um for a pro for either yes or no or adopt or pro or or put forward a process and I don't beyond that I don't know that we can get any other guidance unless other counselors would like to speak to this. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Councor Hanaki. So I'll completely speak to this. I I don't even understand what our president is sort of trying to guide to do at this point. The motion is to report to the
council >> with the proposal. I'll ignore the date for now. In theory, that is a report on recommend which one, you know, review or investigatory and
actual language. We've got some proposed language here, >> right? um changes to that other things. I certainly intend to send my comments to go. I don't think that can be done in a month. And so
I I personally I'd have go skip the process of how to review this. Just do the review and it's going to take a couple months and that means it'll span the two councils. That that's my own right >> thoughts. But but they need to give us
some level of progress report by the end of this council. That's all I'm trying to get to there. Well, you are we got this far. This is what we have put on the record. We've reviewed the charge. We've reviewed the bylaw. Here's the legal
questions we have. I Who knows what will happen? >> Lynn, sorry. Uh >> yeah, Anna, >> wouldn't that be part of our carryover memo? >> Um because that would be part of our carryover memo. That's how we deal with everything that's carried over. It would
>> Well, but you're saying it's a separate report back to the council. >> Well, your carryover memo is a report back to the council. The council then adopts the carryover memos. >> But Lyn, that's not what you just said. I'm I'm trying to get some clarity here because I'm I'm taking notes on what to put on G's agenda and I truly cannot
figure out what is getting referred to us. So, >> what you need to put on the agenda? >> One moment, please. I'm I'm not done. So what you initially said was a process or plan for how they plan to recommend to the council on how to handle the recommendations of the resident
oversight board. So I I am concerned about getting a process and a review of this done by the end of the term. I'm asking if you are saying that go needs to prepare two reports on the resident oversight board. one of which would be part of the carryover memo and one of
which would be a separate report. >> So try let me try this again. The motion is that we're referring to go the charge and the bylaw. Okay. >> To be honest for >> what purpose?
>> Uh for rec with a report to the town council >> by December 15th. It can be a report recommending. It can be a report. >> It can be a report to recommend. It can re be a report to recommend the bylaw.
It can be a part of your carryover memo. And you're going to do, you know, the next council needs to do the following. >> Okay. I'll I'll try to I'll figure it out. >> I mean, I I'm I'm obviously not going to
just dump it on you, Anna. Um it is a very very um important issue. The question is does go have sufficient time between now and December 15. >> I I I mean no. Um but it depends on the
answer. The >> does go have sufficient time between now and December 15th to do what is kind of the question, right? Because I think if go is simply going to say this is what the next go will need to do with this then sure we have time to do that. Uh go
will not have time to I do not believe that go will have time to determine to to do a full substantive review of of the of each option and make a recommendation on which to implement to the council. I am not sure I don't
believe that go has sufficient time to fully develop a wellthoughtout process for how to handle this either. That one we can try. Um but I >> then then I think all go can do is say
we got this far and we carried this over >> and the next go has to figure out what to do with it. Councelor Hannah, can you hold your hand up? >> Yeah. Um, I'm hoping this is going to be a friendly amendment motion. >> Sure.
>> Um, so that it reads instead of with a report to the town council by December 15, 2025, instead it reads with a report and recommendation to the town council by April 1, 2026. I'm open to other dates, but we know we're not going to get a recommendation
by the end of this term, and it takes a little bit for the next council, too. I think that would solve this this challenge of it just goes in the carryover memo wherever your status is, and the next committee takes over the
review. I don't know whether April one is too long, too short, but I you can always report earlier if too long. >> I that's fine with me. >> Councelor Lord made the second. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So the amen the motion now reads to refer the proposed resident oversight board charge and bylaw to the governance organization and legislation committee with a report to the uh and
recommend with a recommendation to the town council by April 1st 2026 >> with a report and recommendation >> with a re I'm sorry with a report and recommendation. Okay, that's that is the motion. Yes.
Okay, >> my hand is up. >> I'm sorry, councelor. >> I was just wondering why we need a date and what would be the significance of this particular date? We always try to give a date. Okay. And it
might be that on that by that date somebody has they've already made an action. They can bring it earlier. They can also need postpone. But we've always put dates on something so that it stays current. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So then if I get this correctly, what this particular go group would have to consider is treat it like it's an ordinary thing and wherever we stop, we hand it over to the next
one. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yes, that would be my expectation. Um Paul, >> so I think is a good question. And I think a date is important and that date's especially important or earlier because I have to submit a budget to the town council on May 1st.
>> So if there's any budgetary implica imp implications that I need to incorporate something into the budget based on the council's uh decision, I'd want to know that no later than April 1st. >> Okay. Yeah. All right.
Anybody else need the motion read again? Okay. We're moved to a vote. Uh and councelor Ete >> I >> Lyn Gremer I councelor Hani >> I >> Bob Hegner >> I >> councelor Lord >> I
>> uh Pam Rooney >> yes >> councelor Ryan >> I >> Kathy Shane >> yes >> Andy Steinberg >> I >> Jennifer Tob >> yes >> councelor Walker >> yes >> ah councelor Walker you're back with us thank you thank you
>> we just confirmed that you can hear and be heard thank Thank you. Thank you. >> Uh Pat D'Angelus. >> Hi. >> Honor Delin Gothier. >> Hi. >> It's unanimous. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Yes. >> Yes.
Okay. The next item on our agenda is in fact meeting with the CSSJC. Uh those of you that are still in the room, would you please come forward and
you can either sit there or we can have you sit right here? Yeah, I think sitting right there would be just fine. Paul, I think they're going to sit right here. Yeah.
>> And this was for all members of CSSJC. And Camille, I believe you're the staff that come on. >> Well, Camille is the our staff leazison. So, >> huh. >> She's our staff. >> She's staff leaison, right? Exactly. And
four of you makes does constitute a quorum. Correct. >> Yeah. >> A meeting. Correct. >> Okay. Um, now I there are a couple items after we
finish this that the council does have to deal with tonight. There'll be other items that we will not be dealing with tonight and then I will be suggesting other meeting times. Okay. So I >> um do I have to officially call us to order? >> Please do.
>> Yes. Um, so it is 9:41 p.m. and I'm calling to order the community safety and social justice committee meeting. >> Okay. Join the council. >> Right. And let me just preface this by um
saying that uh on November 14th, the town council voted 12 to1 and it was a previous town council. >> Uh point of order, Lynn. I think the CSSJC needs to confirm their members can hear and be heard.
>> I'm so sorry. Of course they need to. Uh would you check with your members, please? >> Um does everyone want to just talk into the mic? >> Yes. >> Can you hear me? >> Yeah. >> Yes.
>> You have to touch >> for for those not in the room. Can you just say which members are present please? >> I'm going to go into that >> Erica Pad >> and Allegra Clark Deborah Ferrer. >> Did you get all that on Athena?
>> Thank you. >> And is there anybody on Zoom? >> No. Um Ail Henry was not able to join us. >> Okay. Okay. >> Just point of order. Sorry. It is really tough to hear you if you're if you're further back from the mic. So, if you could just make sure that the as you go around it's it's right in front of you.
Thanks. >> Right. Okay. All right. Um, so on November 14th, 2022, the town council voted 12 to1 by roll call vote that the town council request that the town manager work with the DEI
department and other staff. And there were seven items uh adopted. We I've had two or three meetings. I believe with uh the co-chairs of this committee and in addition to that with
uh ha uh hollow lord who is liaison from the council to the committee in preparation for this and so they have prepared a slide presentation and uh we're going to go ahead with the slide presentation >> and just briefly we did all want to
introduce ourselves again um and just say briefly why we joined the committee um so I'm Algra Clark I've been co-chair fair um since 2022. I am a forensic social worker in the court system and I have had a deep interest in the creation
of Crest since before it was called Crest. >> Hello everyone. My name is Deborah Ferrer. Um also co-chair for CSSJC. I am also an original member of the CSWG, the Community Safety and Working Group. Um, the reason why I joined
Community Safety Working Group and CSSJC first and foremost is because of my sons. I have two black males who are my children. One is 21 now, another one is 16. Uh, both went through the Ammerst school system and both of them when I
had them, first the older and then the the other one, um, I was afraid for their lives, right? Because they're black males in this country. And even given what's happening right now nationally in terms of black people being under attack by the media, by
propaganda, being blamed for pretty much everything that's happening in this country. And so for me that was the main reason why I joined these committees was to protect my kids and also all the other young people who are bipac and that look like my children especially
from the police because the police a lot many interaction with the police are intimidating are traumatic and are very scary and so I'm scared for their lives. I'm also a civil rights attorney that I've had over 25 years of working as a civil rights attorney dealing with
diversity, equity, inclusion, and social justice issues. And lastly, I'm an immigrant to this country. And so right now with what's happening in this country with ICE coming into our communities right here in our town and disappearing people, I think it's my objective and critical importance for me
to sit on this committee and bring these issues up to you all. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, my name is Ara Pedad and the reason why I joined this committee is because I believe we are all responsible for ensuring we have a just, inclusive,
affordable, and vibrant Amherst. I had served on the MAHT for six years and couldn't be reappointed. I learned about CSSJAC, its charge, and wanted to assist town council in meeting the vision it voted for on April 4th, 2022 when it
established the CSSJC with the purpose of ensuring the implementation of the CSWG recommendations. Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Lisette Pedes. I am an immigrant to this country as well. I came here when I was 5 years
old. Um, I went through the Ammeris public school systems. I've lived here for now 23 years. Um I am currently employed in the Massachusetts trial court. I'm a sessions clerk in the Springfield um district court. I'm also seeking my degree in legal studies and
forensics. And I think that I I'm very new to any town government or any committees and I'm very interested in learning. Um, my current path uh at Bay Path has opened up my eyes to the racial
inequality and the system the the the way that the systems have been put in place against minority communities. Um, so I felt that this I was actually recruited by a current justice at the moment. Um, I had never heard of Crest
until this person brought it to my attention and I think if it wasn't for that individual till this day, I still would not know what Crest is because I don't think that it's had enough advocacy. Um, so I joined um with the current members and yeah,
>> welcome. Thank >> we will also want to recognize Camille Tariq who is uh the head of our crest department. Camille. >> Hello. Uh, I'm Camille Theiaak. I am >> Theak Theak. Yes, the Crest director.
I'm also a licensed clinical social worker and retired firefighter. >> Okay. So, um, we not pushing. Okay, we can go to the next slide. Um, we just wanted to talk a bit about
the original recommendations, then the seven priorities that were adopted by town council um, in November of 2022 and the status of those and areas for further consideration. Um, so again, we formed in June 2022 as
the successor group to CSWG and we were charged to carry out the recommendations. Um, so we will work to advance diversity, equity, inclusion, and community safety in Ammerst. The committee may provide advice and support to all town government entities,
including the town council, town manager, and town committees, to fully realize the resolution affirming the town of Ammerst commitment to end structural racism and achieve racial equity for black residents, adopted by the town council December 2020. The committee shall work to support all
members of the Ammeris community to understand and enjoy the benefits of a community that is truly diverse, equitable, and inclusive of all and shall serve as a voice to marginalized and underrepresented residents. So, I just want to pin there that the original
resolution was passed by the inaugural council, the seven priorities were passed by the second seated council, and now we are here with our third council. um reviewing progress. Go to the next slide.
>> Okay. So, the CSWG was formed in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd. As we all know, we were formed after the town adopted in December 2020 a resolution. So this resolution is affirming the town of Ammer's commitment to end structural
racism and achieve racial equity for black residents. Amongst other sections of the resolution, it stated, "Ammertown Council hereby affirms its commitment to eradicating the effects of systematically racist practices of town government and town affiliated
organizations will review and revise its policies, procedures, bylaws, values, goals, and missions through an anti-racism lens to foster an unbiased and inclusive environment that is free of discrimination, harassment, and negative stereotyping towards any person or group. For us, this resolution was
not just empty words. We will hold the town council accountable to make this resolution a reality for all residents. And this is something that we take seriously. CSWG began meeting weekly from November 2020 to October 2021. Our
charge was to one recommend alternative options to public safety services currently provided by the Ammerst Police Department. Again, alternative options to public safety services. That was our first charge and we take that very seriously. Recommendations for resident
oversight and for policy reforms for the Ammeris Police Department. Our recommendations resulted in part A and part B that were made to the town council. These recommendations were made in 2021. Four years later, only Crest and DI were established with both
departments being poorly staffed, funded, and crippled by town government resistant towards providing the necessary support to actualize their full potential. The numerous other recommendations from PAR A and PAR B are far from being established or or even thought of. The resident oversight board
hasn't been established as an empowered oversight board to investigate law enforcement complaints. The youth empowerment c center's $500,000 which had been earmarked to establish a center vanished has vanished and there is no accounting from the town manager as to what has
happened to that money and establishing the multicultural center has even been mentioned that that's not even mentioned in any discussions around CSWG talk about crest we talk about uh DI and possibly the resident oversight board and then all the other recommendations that were made in part A part B are just
you sent into the hemisphere. I don't know where it goes. Right. U this sends a clear message to our town residents, especially BIPO bipok residents that they are not a priority and I emphatically relegated to the margins. We will go into more detail throughout
our presentation as to why this is the case. So again, those are the original six recommendations that were made in part A. So crest RO DEI department, BIPAC youth empowerment center and bipac cultural center reducing the size of
Ammeris police department and continuing the ongoing work of CSWG which has been realized through CSSJC. So there was a plethora of uh recommendations in in part B which was passed in October 2021 again you know
marking the dates right that we're we're four years down the road and um most of part B hasn't even been put into place. Um so the creation of CSSJC as as Algra talked about our charge as a town as a town committee I want to be clear as a town committee is to advise the town
manager town council and town government departments on issues of equity safety and inclusion. Instead we have been set to the side. Town council doesn't talk with us. Town manager doesn't meet with us. Um you know it took us months of emailing the
town council this time around to even get an audience with you. The town manager has never attended one of our meetings even though we have invited him numerous times and we have been around for three years. We were charged with ensuring the CSWG recommendations were put in place and we find resistance from
town government engaging with us except for town staff from Crest and DI who meet with us every month and keep us posted on the work they are doing. Although they are underst staffed and underfunded themselves, they still make the time to meet with us on these
critical issues of equity and safety. So I go to the resident oversight board. Rob has not been established in the four years that it was recommended. And neither model presented today that you just heard was the model presented by CSWG. If the town had established the
rob as envisioned by CSWG, it would begin to heal the rift between the town and BIPO members who are the ones that are most mistreated by the police. If we can't have what was originally recommended by CSWG, then at least the investigative model proposed today
earlier must be adopted. Anything less would keep our BIPO residents unsafe. The resident oversight board as a review model is a weak, watered down version and would further serve to create mistrust with law enforcement in our town. I just want to be clear about
that. The rest of what I'm going to review on part B has never been completed except number five, which is community healing and visioning, which I will discuss later. Tower manager stated in January 2024 that working on police protocols will be a priority of the police chief. That has not happened. I
will give a brief overview of the remaining part B recommendations. So we go to number three. Revise selected policies and contract provisions of the APD. CSWG drew upon drew upon consultants that we hired that were from the law enforcement action project leap.
Bottom line is that APD policies we me mentioned have an overall disparit impact on bipok people and lead to further suspicion and fear of the police for the use of force. The recommendation was to rewrite the policy consent searches and low-level protectal vehicle stops. The recommendations was to
eliminate and prohibit and to revise the other APD policies in place. Number four, we can go to the next slide please. So number four, to enable transparency, CSWG recommended the creation of an online dashboard which deal with
disproportionality by race and traffic stops. It would site various categories by race. That would help with transparency and and again focus on creating that trust with the community. In regards to traffic control enforcement, each of these categories go towards having APD respond to only
jailable traffic offenses and moving everything else to an unarmed division of traffic enforcement that would be under crest. That was our recommendation to move anything but jailable offenses dealing with traffic control under crest. that that's not even mentioned. Per the report over a decade's worth of
policing data in the CSWG report in Ammer showed that black drivers are stopped by police were 1.4 1.45 times more likely to be searched and 1.5 times more likely to be arrested than white drivers. When black drivers were stopped by police, they were about 1.25 times
more likely than white drivers to be stopped for over 30 minutes. When black drivers were searched by the police, the reason given was 20% less likely to be the higher threshold of probable cause and nearly twice as likely to be reasonable suspicion compared with white drivers.
Number five, engage our town in extended process of community racial healing. CSWG recommended a plan and strategy for laboratory visioning process recommended by Dr. Barbara Love who we met during our information gathering time. The outcome of these intensive conversations
will be the dismantling and healing white supremacy and Ammerst and creating a community of liberatory consciousness. This has begun and we will discuss in more detail later in our presentation. And lastly, number six was from the part B. Develop an anti-racist departmental
culture in APD. This must happen if there is going to be trust amongst all the residents in Ammerst. The new chief stated that he would be undertaking this. I was at his um you know where he was doing when when when they were doing the talk back before he was hired as the new police chief and I asked him that
question and he said that he was going to be undertaking that. I haven't seen any of it. I haven't seen any type of uh message uh sent out by the APD saying that they are actively anti-racist. Haven't seen any forward movement in terms of them saying that they are anti-racist. So basically it has not
happened. APD has not sent any clear message that they are actively anti-racist. they have not created an intentional culture demonstrating that they are actively anti-racist. My suggestion is they contact Dr. Barbara Love to engage her work with them to become actually actively anti-racist.
So on November 14th, there was a 12 to one roll call vote that town council requests the town manager working with the DEI department to enact the following. Next slide, please.
Um the first one was to propose to the town council a plan for community visioning with a focus on public safety and social justice. So, as Deborah said, the DI department has been engaging the
community in community-led sessions. Um, and they did just release a report over the summer, the libertarian visioning report. Um, and unfortunately the department is grossly underresourced and
continues to get new responsibilities. So there hasn't been as much of a um effort as there could be and it would be beneficial to have more staffing available. I do know that there are two
very part-time um UMass work study students working with the department currently. Um but two really part-time students equals basically one part-time employee. Um it is a great partnership to have with the university. However,
it's still not enough to reduce the burden on the DI department. Um, I will say that the Liberatory Visioning Project did review many of the same things that CSWG looked at, that um, the
African Heritage Reparations Assembly looked at, that the TUR report looked at with press. Um, many of the findings are the same in that youth need a place to go and the police have disparate
practices when addressing black residents versus white residents and that crest would be a beneficial alternative to that. Um, so if you haven't read it, I really recommend looking at the liberatory visioning report. It's excellent. Um, and there
are more sessions coming up. um they do monthly sessions and they have a great model where they've trained community facilitators to help as well. So it really has engaged the community in that process. So So let me set set the stage too,
right? So we're talking about you all took adopted these um seven priorities in November of 2022. We're in um November of 2025, right? So three years later, most of these have not been
adopted. So I'm talking to all of you as a town council, right? And I don't know if it was this iteration or last iteration. It's it's not my problem. The problem is the the issue is as a town council and and you all voted on this out of reaction, right? Because what
happened was that in July 5th, 2022, young people's rights were violated by the police and young people that were mostly bipac youth, their rights were violated. And so the town council out of reaction said, "Yes, we're going to adopt all these priorities and then a
follow up on them." And so that's why we're bringing it up, right? That's why we have it there. Seven priorities set post Ammeris July 5th, 2022 where young people were whose rights were violated and traumatized. and then you all said that you all were going to do and take these steps and we're here sitting three
years later and most of these steps have not been taken. So that's why we wanted to have this conversation and give the status report on the recommendations of the CSWG as well as uh these priorities that you all said was going was going to
take place and has not taken place. Right. So in terms of the second one, if you can go to the to the second one please. Yes. So this second one propose to the town council a plan for the creation of resident oversight board with possible
assistance from and hire as appropriate a consultant to help with the development of that plan. Status resident oversight board has yet to be formed and proposals do not reflect proposed design of the CSWG. Resident oversight board must have investigative powers and should have the membership
proposed by CSWG. As we've stated, it has been four years since CSWG recommended resident oversight board. As communicated previously, neither model presented today was the model presented by CSWG. Rob has to be empowered to do its work.
Our state's post regulations did not deal with the day-to-day problems that our town residents, especially BIPAC residents, have to deal with when encountering the police. As the consultant stated, that was one of the issues that the police kept bringing up over and over again was that, oh, Pulse already deals with this. No, it doesn't.
It does not deal with this. Does not deal with the microaggressions and the intimidation and and the traumatization that our BIPO residents feel when they encounter the police. I have stories. Other people who look like me have stories. We could sit here and I could share with you all stories all night
about the the encounters and the problems that we've had with the police. But that's not why we're here, right? I'm here to talk to you all about the issues and why is it that this resident oversight board has not been put into place. Right. Um this was re reiterated
by the League of Women Voters and you saw there was a public comment by some of the people from League of Women Voters report that came out in October and I would urge you to read that report. It came out in October. It reaffirms pretty much everything that CSWG did and what CSSJC has been trying
to do for these past three years that we have been established which is to say that is the same theme of our BIPO residents are afraid and feel unsafe and they need to feel secure and so these things need to be put in place. So we
cannot rely on the police's own investigations, which would be what the review board would do, to decide responsibility when concerns are brought forward by the police. Resident oversight board cannot just rubber stamp what the police do. There needs to be a
stipend and a majority bipok membership in order for the rob to begin to build the trust that has been lost between the APD and town residents of color. And the police don't get that. When we talk when I've talked to the police in the past, they seem to think there's no problem. There's no issues. Everything's fine.
Everyone's hunky dory. No, that is not the case. It's hunky dory for some populations in Ammerst, but it's not the place for people that look like me. So, when will Rob be established? I just heard sitting there that now there's going to be a push to April 2026 as to
when possibly something can be brought forward. So now we're talking what? Um, you know, this recommendation was made in 2021. So we're talking five years. Is that what you're telling me? Are are you really telling me that? So while our residents are suffering, don't have a
place to bring forward the complaints. We're going to have to wait until April 2026 to then find out whether possibly you're going to adopt something that possibly could be one or the other. No, we want a resolution now. We want Rob to
be put in place. Now, what are the residents supposed to do in the meantime while everyone's kind of like waiting around and looking at this and looking at, you know, the the the bureaucracy of it all while our residents continue to be traumatized and continue to be afraid.
That's what I want to know. So, I'll stop there and please go to the next one, please. So number number three, you all adopted the organized review of public safety protocols for responding to and handling public safety calls involving all
residents, including minors, in order to recommend changes to those protocols if appropriate. Status not completed. The town manager stated that once the new police chief was hired, the process will begin. Town council needs to direct the town manager to have the police chief complete this process. When the July
5th, 2022 happened, our youth who were majority bipok youth rights were violated. There was no red address for them. The new police chief came in and did nothing to rectify the damage that had been done after that incident occurred. The town manager has done nothing to repair the wrongs that occurred against those youth and their
families. We are still feeling the repercussions from what happened back then. I get the concerns from community members who come and talk to me about what happened back then. The town thinks that sweeping things under the rug is the best way to handle wrongdoings. Well, it is not. We do not forget when
will the police chief meet with CSSJ to tell us what he is doing to rectify the intimidation our youth feel from the police. When will the town manager have the police complete this process? When will the town manager ensure that Crest is receiving calls from dispatch? We
have been getting the runaround on this since Crest was created in 2022. Why hasn't Why aren't calls being dispatched to Crest? That is just incredulous to me that we're talking, you know, four years down the road and there's still no
dispatch protocol in place for Crest to to receive dispatch calls. Crest is an alternative to policing. Call should be dispatched. We just heard from from you know the members who did from L LWV and others and and the same theme that most
of the calls are nonviolent. So therefore that means right 1 plus 1 equals 2 that then Crest should be getting most of the calls. So why isn't Crest getting most of those calls? Because the police doesn't want Crest to get most of those calls. So why is why
is this, you know, a a a joke, you know, at at this point? If Crest had been receiving calls from dispatch, July 5th would not have happened and our youth would not have been traumatized as they were because that's what happens to our youth. They end up getting traumatized
and having to deal with those repercussions for years and years. I don't think a majority of you have had to deal with those types of things when you get intimidated by a police officer in that way. So, one of the reasons why we're bringing this up again.
>> Thank you, Deborah. Um, next slide, please. Um, so number four was continue to develop protocols for Crest regarding active engagement by community responders. Um, I will say I think Crest has done an excellent job with outreach um, in the community. They've been at
all sorts of events. Um, I think that there has been trouble over the past three years with the changes in leadership and it seems like we're getting into a stable place. Um, so that's a good thing for the department.
Um, however, we have been working with Camille for over a year, about a year and a half now, and Camille has been very, very focused on getting standard operating procedures out there. Um, and
we're still hearing that dispatch can't dispatch calls um, and isn't doing it regularly. So that is a problem in having Crest actually be able to fulfill its mission and the vision of the CSWG
because while there are more people going directly to Crest, there aren't the calls that could be diverted from the police department going to Crest as well. Um, and I think that a big part of that has to do with the hours that Crest is available. looking at the LEAP report
from 2021 which had kind of tried to outline some of the ideas for implementation the hours and the times and the days that Crest should be most available. It's not. And I think that that's a problem because we are we are seeing
that those calls aren't being answered by Crest. And I did have an a conversation with one of the responders who said they were working really hard with this person all day one day. They thought that they had gotten the resources lined up and they asked him to come back into the office the next
morning to get everything settled and he ended up getting arrested that night because something happened after Crest had closed and they weren't there to support him. And so that is, I think, the perfect example of why Crest's hours need to be expanded or shifted so that
they're capturing the hours that need to be that would be most um beneficial. So again, I think that there have been difficulties and discrepancies in what CSWG recommended versus how press has
been rolled out. And I think that that's impacting its ability to function in the way that it was envisioned. And I think that having a plan for dispatch by the end of this year would be really beneficial to
the community so that things can get on track for that process. And just and just to to kind of reiterate, how can Crest when CSWG has said we wanted uh 247
unarmed department with you know what is it two two people for four shifts so that they're 247 then the funding that ends up getting happening is for um you know eight responders 8 to 4 Monday to
Friday. When you look at the if you look at the LWV statistic that they shared, that's not when most of the calls come in. So press is not even working in its optimal time. And if you all don't believe me, go look at that report that just came out in October in terms of
when the calls actually happen, which is 4 to midnight, right? So on weekends, like I remember there was an incident that was happening that I saw it, right? That I knew I would have called Crest, but it was a Saturday. Guess what? They closed. How does that make any sense?
And so when this freezing when when uh when the funding freeze came about, oh yeah, of course we're going to freeze two two people in Crest because, you know, they they're not optimally, you know, doing what they should be doing. Of course they're not doing optimally
what they should be doing when they're not being optimally utilized during the hours that they should be utilized, right? This patch isn't working. They're not sending calls to them. So then how can you say that it's not effective or not working if you haven't even given it
an opportunity to work? I am say I'm talking to you all right at the town council who adopted crest and said that crest was supposed to be fully functional. So how come is not fully functional? Why isn't it that you have why haven't you given it the power to be
fully functional and for it to be working during the hours where most people need it to to work which is in the evenings and on weekends? Like I said, I couldn't call Crest because they don't work on weekends. That makes zero sense to me. So that's why we continue
to reiterate and we've been talking about this for years. So why is it that you know four years later or three years later from when it was put in place and four years from when it was recommended that there's still no dispatch and that press works 8
to 4. >> Next slide please. The fifth recommendation was continue the work already begun on exploring options for youth empowerment center. I again would like to shout out the DI department and the rec department. They've put together some great
programming for youth um including last week there was a college preparedness workshop um held on one and a half days and about 17 high school students did attend that. So that's wonderful. But programming does not equal a center.
So there were $500,000 that had been earmarked in ARPA funds that were from my understanding transitioned into free cash because there was um all the fear of clawbacks coming. So that money
to my understanding is now just sitting in free cash and has not cannot be earmarked or set aside for youth um programming or a center. So, um, we had an understanding at one
point that there was a committee that had various representatives from town departments that were working towards the idea of a center and that seems to also have not come to fruition. Um, it's
my understanding there was maybe some money put aside or utilized to study something. Um, but it's unclear what was studied and and what happened with the results of that study. We've asked
various members of the team, including the finance director and the the um recreation department director to come and talk to us at our meeting about what's going on with the empowerment center, but they don't know either.
So again, this is a big recommendation and not much progress has been made. Um, so we are asking that there is a direction to the town manager to present a plan with deadlines
within the fiscal year to find a location and establish a youth empowerment center as well as providing a liaison to the committee so that we can understand where we are in the process. >> Just add a few things. Um, our bipok
youth are suffering. They need a space where they can go to. We We've just talked and I know you all were were talking with the the school committee and going over the budget and our schools are all under stress. They need the assistance. They need the help. If there's a center for our youth where
they can go to, they can get that extra help. They can get the extra help with homework and just the connections and different things. That's going to help the schools. That's going to help the families. that's going to diminish the problems. And so what that's why CSWG
recommended a youth empowerment center to have a place for our young people, especially our bipok pe uh young people to be able to go there and have a space where they can call their own own and to build and grow right during this p. how
this center would be optimal and critical during this time where families are being impacted in our community where families can't don't know where the next you know where their next meal is coming from. This center would be critical to be able to engage with youth
but instead it's been sitting $500,000 earmarked to it and we don't even know what that $500,000 is. I know some youth program hasn't has occurred but that is not enough. That is only a minimal start. So why and and then when we have
our monthly meetings, we ask questions. So what is happening with youth empowerment? No one can respond to that. That's why we're asking for liaison to be put on on uh you know to attend the meetings so that we have some answers. Our community wants to know. Our
community needs to center. This was not just a frivolous request or frivolous recommendation. It's a very serious recommendation that would actually help everyone who is engaged with our youth, our school, our family, our community.
Where is that money and where is the liaison to to attend our meetings so that we can get answers? Next. Next one. Next one, please. So this one continue to work already begun on exploring options for No, this is
number six, please. Next slide. Thank you. I appreciate it. I know we're all exhausted. Thank God I wrote my remarks because if not, I would have been not been able to say anything at how tired I am after working full-time, being a single mom, taking care of my mom at home, and then coming here. So,
it's been a joy joyful day. Um, number six, provide training regarding racial equity rights rights and other options for training to employees and members of the public. Status DI department has actively engaged staff and the community and racial equity rights and anti-racism training. DI
department has expanding responsibilities with only two staff. They need more staff and resources. Employee training needs to be standard in orientation and staff development. Although DEI has done an incredible job given their staffing and funding realities, it is not enough. Anti-racist
training and that's what we want to call it is anti-racist training cannot be voluntary. It has to be mandatory. Also, it has to be weaved into the monthly trainings, conversations, opportunities along with policy changes. Those two go
to in tandem. One cannot happen without the other. It may also need to come with staffing changes because if if those that are not on board with an anti-racist culture are slow to modify, then they may that may not be the best place for them to work at. Next slide,
please. Number seven, develop a communications plan to raise awareness in the community about these efforts and that the town manager will report on actions to be taken and or progress in addressing the above no later than 4 months from the date of this vote. So this vote was taken
November uh uh um you know of 2022. Four months later this was supposed to happen. Status not completed. CSC has requested numerous times that the town manager attend its meetings which would help to amplify such a communication plan and coordinate efforts. We invite
him to our December 10th, 2025 meeting. We are talking about something that was supposed to happen four months back in 2022. Why didn't this happen? Town council. We are a body that is supposed to advise a town manager and town council. I'm talking about the CSSJC.
The LWV October report stated CSJC has been treated with disrespect when meeting with the town council. This is a quote from their report. We were not brought into the room, but this actually happened. We were not brought into the room at one virtual meeting. Then on October 17th, 2022 meeting, we were shut
down by one of the town council members. We have not met with the town council since then. So, we haven't met with the town council since 2022. It took us months to get this meeting. The town manager does not meet with us. The town manager did not want to reappoint me to the committee without community support.
Facts are facts. Why are you afraid of us? Do you want us to just stay quiet and not raise these issues? We are a part of this town. We live in this town. Our kids go to school in this town. We need to meet with the town
council as needed and at the very least twice a year. These meetings should be calendared today. Also, the town manager needs to meet with us as requested and not say that just because DI and Crest are on that they meet with us that
that's the equivalent of him meeting with us. It's not equivalent because they a lot of times when we ask the questions rightfully so because it's not their parameter. It's above their pay grade. They can't answer those questions. So that's why we request the town manager to to meet with us. That's why we want him to meet with us because
he has the answers that we're looking for. So it's not again it's not a frivolous request. Next slide please. I think part under that first part there was this
draft reports to be available to the council community safety social justice committee and human rights commission as well as the public no less than two weeks prior to the town council meeting where the items will be discussed that CSSJC and HRC provide written advice to the town council five days prior to the
town council meeting at which the items will be discussed. The town council will discuss the manager's report and both committee reports and will hold a discussion that includes public comment as amended by removing and responsibilities.
Sorry, now I'm showing my that last part. >> No, that's how it was. I No, I I've looked at it and that's how it was written in you all's kind of like little proposal. Seven priorities. Uh, so
CSSJC hasn't received this report and just going back to everything Deborah said, we need increased coordination with town council and manager including meetings um when requested and again input in the budget cycle. I know we've
written letters in the past um but I don't think that's sufficient given what happened this past year press freeze um so CSSJC is charged to implement CSWG recommendations and therefore needs a budget and the power to do so
because that is another point we don't even have a budget so when we've had like a retreats or when we've had town forums to get you know feedback from the town we have to beg and plead for even like an apple to be served or I mean what is that about? How come CSSJC
doesn't have a budget even like $100? When we've had retreats to to like um hire a facilitator to to facilitate our retreats, I've had to beg and plead friends of mine to see if they can do the the retreat for us because we have no money.
How? I don't get it. You know, if we're a a a committee that's dealing with equity, safety, and social justice, how haven't you even g given us a budget for us to be able to do the work that we're able to do in terms of having town forums and things like that? Of course,
Crescent DI help with what they can. They go into their budgets to, you know, give us a meal, you know, but that shouldn't be the case for a town committee. Next slide, please. Um, so obviously the national scene and
local events show that there's even more urgency now than ever in enacting what the town committed to. Community feedback and various reports continue to affirm the relevancy of these initiatives for the residents of Ammerst to expect the town to follow through
with their commitment. So we talk about the original CSWG reports part A and part B as well as the seven gen report that helped support those reports. Since then there have been at least five additional reports that have come out. Um there was the African Heritage
Reparations Assembly report, the Tale of Two Towns um by Rabbi Deb who just presented. Um so part one of her work or their work during the process was again gathering more information from
the community about the impact of policing um to assert whether or not a resident oversight board would be warranted. Then there was the visioning report this past summer by Dr. Barbara Love community assessment by the Tur Research Institute. Um, and one of the
things that was found in that report was actually that residents are tired of talking and talking and talking about what's been going on and want to see action from the council and from the town on the things that they've been talking about for the last five years. Um, and then finally, the League of
Women Voters CSWG progress report that just came out in October. um which was a really helpful resource for us to go back and look at all of the things that have and haven't happened over the past five years. Again, I would recommend
looking at it if you haven't already. But again, all of these reports say the same thing and reaffirm what the CSWG originally had put forward in it in its recommendations. And why we wanted to point that out is
that you know uh various times when I've engaged with different members of the community who are not bipok they they tend to um you know doubt what CSWG had brought forward in terms of from seventh generation from LEAP you know they doubt
the data they doubt statistics they they try to you know perforate and say no you know that that that data is dated because it was back in 2021 and so on so forth. Well, these are not from 2021. Okay, the the the League of Women Voters
that that just happened this in October last month. All right, so all of these have the same theme. Bipok people are afraid. Like I said, when I've talked to the police, they they laugh it away. Deborah, this is you. You're you're just angry. You're this activist who's angry.
No, it's not that I'm angry. because I listen to my constituencies. They call me in the middle of the night letting me know what is happening to them. Okay? And so I worry and I stress about them because they contact us, right? Because they know that we are the CSSGCC. And so
all of these have the same theme that they have reaffirmed and have gone into other data. They've done their own surveys. So when you all some of them will say no you all were biased CSWG and so on so forth and who you went and talked to which we weren't but well
these folks weren't okay these folks weren't they did the same surveys and it reestablished the same things that CSWG did and said okay so if you look at the tale of two of two towns the visioning report by Dr. love community assessment
by Detroit research center and the League of Women Voters. They will bring you all the data and all the surveys and all the people that they've talked to and who have reaffirmed what CSWG said. So the issues that were relevant then
are still relevant today and even worse because of everything that's happening nationally, what's happening in our town. Next slide, please. And and this is the last one so that then if you all want to ask us some questions. So as as I stated
we are a group that uh people come to us and they talk to us. So we're not just there to implement the recommendation CSWG but also the year and the voice of the community members because a lot of them English is their second language. They don't speak like me or you, right?
So they rely on us to relate to the to you all what is going on in their lives right and so these are some of the things that have been prevalent to them and that's why we wanted to bring those forward to you not just the recommendations but also what is happening real time and some of the
concerns that are brought to us on on a a daily basis. So areas of further consideration, equitable support for bipacowned businesses. We heard throughout these past few years the accounts from bipok businesses about the inequitable distribution of our funds.
And I know you all have heard it. It's been in meetings, but we have heard it too and we get the constituents coming and talking to us. Bipok businesses have complained without redress of being shut out time and time again from opportunities presented to white businesses. At a minimum, the town needs
to have a monthly standing meeting with the Black Business Association of Ammerst area. They are a resource. Why aren't they being asked and talked to? Second, protection of immigrant communities. Our immigrants who are our families, friends, neighbors need our
help. We need to make sure that they are not being disappeared by ICE, which we know has already happened in our town. I am glad that the town manager and APD have reertified that we are sanctuary town. Nonetheless, our immigrants are not going to call the police if they
feel endangered because they are afraid of the police. We need to make sure they have access to crests first and foremost to Lucay immigrant justice network and to other organizations attorneys to help them. We don't want families destroyed by them being carted away to prisons due
to racial profiling. There's there's current members from a a a town, at least one that I know that is in prison right now because of being carted away by ICE that implodes a family. What office has a town established to help our immigrants? That's a question
that I'm posing to the town council. Next one, translation services need to be weaved into all town meetings. For instance, did we offer translation services for this meeting? There needs to be an int intentional strategy to give all residents access to town meetings and the valuable information
that is shared at these meetings. Offering pocket translators and translators at certain meetings is a start, but it is not enough. And lastly, we want to wholeheartedly support the establishment of the reparations committee and hopefully they they'll get
established, you know, within the next month or so and make sure that the human rights commission bylaws are adopted. We I heard Liz um talk about that during her public comment. So for me it's by when will each happen. So thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
Okay. >> Welcome questions from the town council. >> Thank you. Are there questions or comments from the council? Honor Develin Gothier. >> This is a question for Paul. I'm
curious, the committee spoke about um the need for a budget and I'm curious generally how the process for committees in need of funding works. Is it typically expected to run through their the department that is that their staff
leaison is a part of? Um, to my knowledge, we don't have uh any standard town committees with individual budgets, but I might be misremembering because it's 10:30 at night. Um, so I'm wondering if you could clarify whether that is something that is our current
practice, and that's not to say it couldn't be. I'm just I just want to know what the what the current norm and expectation is. >> Sure. So, um, the their committees tend not to have budgets. doesn't mean that committee can't request a budget and I
think for activities that committees want to achieve we there are two departments I've been supporting the CSSJC both crest and DEI both have budgets that can support that have crest especially has had a fair amount of um resources to support activities of other
departments which they've been using very wisely so um if there are things that um people need to get done I think we would always look to be able to find the resources to help them do it. >> Did you have a follow on?
>> No. Nope, not at this time. Thank you. >> Okay, Pat, >> I want to get to the dispatch question. What is going on? Why hasn't anything like that happened? Um, does Crest fully embrace the um, vision put forward by
the CSWG or what where is Crest in all this in terms of what you're developing? But where is Dispatch and why? >> So, yeah, this has been a frustrating
one quite honestly. Um, there was some progress being made up until the departure of Cat Newman. uh then sort of stopped and then you know I think about a month ago uh I just it was we weren't making progress and I brought together
police and crest and HR into a room and we're meeting basically every two weeks until we get it done and we're we've selected some um some uh call types that we want to focus on and um getting everything in place so that we can start
having dispatch dispatch and dispatch doesn't see a barrier they are concerned about some certain policies and things like that, but we want to get beyond all those things. Make sure it gets reviewed by the town attorney and get it on dispatch. And my goal is to have it done by the end of the calendar year.
>> Okay. >> Would you agree with that? >> Did you have a follow on, Pat? >> Thank you. Right. Thank you. I'm I'm not sure where to go with this because you say there isn't an issue with dispatch except maybe around policy and stuff,
but this is this has been there's deep accuracy here >> been going on. Um, and I go back to an incident I experienced in my home where the police officers who came actually said, one of the women quietly said to
her partner, "This is a crest issue." And it did happen after the hours of crest. So, so I guess I'm I'm I'm sitting here a little boggled. Um,
and ma'am, so >> I I'd like to >> I I guess your answer is not enough. >> That's fair. Um, I I listen to the scanner a lot. There are a lot of there's many calls that I think could be directed towards Crest. I don't I don't They're calls and I think, you know,
talking with police be the right. They believe Crest has a role as well. Um so what the dis dispatch is not um what I'm saying mean by that is that they're not saying oh we don't like crust we're not going to dispatch that's not their
attitude the attitude is we want to make sure if we're dispatching it has we're dispatching to a safe environment where people who are trained to be able to address that call and all those types of things. And so that's where that's the that's the area that we're working in to make sure everybody's comfortable with
the with the um dispatch going to to crest. Um Camille's been a terrific job of moving this helping to move this forward. Um and the chief is at the table as well. So just I need to we just need to bring people together and sort of like we just have to get this done.
>> I I guess one more thing I just want to echo fear the idea of fear. Um, I was at the survival center one day recently, uh, and a police officer came in because there was a minor accident in the
parking lot and and he wanted to get, um, information from the two drivers. All we didn't know inside what was going on. All of a sudden, all kinds of people were coming in and basically trying to
hide. Okay? and that's because of ICE. Um, and so this this level of fear really does need to be addressed. I'm not sure how because um because of what's happening federally
um so >> I think I've been doing more and I'm still stuck. If dispatch thinks this good idea, then why they doing it, you know? >> So,
>> so I hear I hear it. I hear what you're saying, >> but it's hard to hold to. And I I don't agree with tonight and everything else, you know, >> but this one that's getting >> Yeah. Get getting me on it. Thank you.
Thank you. >> And and I hear you. And I think a lot of people feel the same way that you do. Like what is the problem here? >> Yeah. So what is it >> really? >> We're we're trying to dig through that right now and we've made a commitment at the highest levels of our organization to make it happen. My goal is to get it done by the end of this calendar year on
the on the calls. Now that being said, Crest does have a lot they get a lot of direct calls which was also >> Yes. I know >> people who are afraid of calling the police, you know. Um, and so I think Crest has done a good job at getting the word out about that they exist, that
they're available, that they go into the community, they're connecting with people. People will walk into Crest all the time. So I think they're serving a function in terms of meeting needs of certain people who will not go into the police station and will go into Crest to seek support.
>> And that's ab absolutely true because we have Crest people coming frequently to the survival center. and people feel safe with them. >> Um, yeah, kudos and thank you for my uh protein drink,
>> Councor Walker. >> Um, thank you. I just first wanted to thank um the CSSJC for an incredibly powerful presentation. um very informative in terms of updating us on some of the things and a good reminder
as to sort of the origin of where these recommendations came from and what purpose they were intended to serve. Um because I feel like because it has been such a long time that sometimes those things get lost in our conversations about these uh recommendations. And so I
really appreciate like the reentering and reggrounding of why we started to look into these things in the first place and that these issues and concerns very much still exist in our community and very much still deserve uh to be addressed. So thank you. Um I had a
couple of follow-up questions. One was just on the dispatch. Um, and just like very candidly, I'm hoping for a little bit more honesty and transparency in terms of what is going on with dispatch because um, and correct me if I'm wrong, I know that there are some kind of like
disc dispatch protocols that needed to be established. Um, it's been a number of years and so while I know that we have lost CAT, I'm lost as to why it didn't happen much longer before that. Um, and I heard that there were some protocols proposed and that maybe those
were turned down for some reason and that maybe there needs to be more I don't know what to happen in order to get those uh pass, but I'm wondering if you can be very specific and very clear as to what has happened with dispatch and what needs to happen. Like what are
you you say we're going to get this done by the end of this calendar year. That's very soon. What exactly is it do you think that is going to happen between now and December that is going to allow us to take dispatch calls that couldn't happen in the past four years? >> So Cat Newman had been working with a a
captain in the police department to go through a lot of different protocols and policies and things like that. Remember that police have I don't know 200 policies that have been worked out over you know decades and decades.
um um crest is is new and and developing protocols and things like that on how they're going to handle things and and that's a piece of the a piece of the issue. Um what what I am saying is that we're we I brought people into the room. We're
sitting down every two weeks to go through things um and try to and make this happen in terms of what do you need to be able to to handle calls? What do you need crest to be able to receive calls? what we have the equipment, all that has been purchased. It's like what
are the barriers? And I'm trying to break break through those right now. And I think that we're going to make it happen. And again, as I said, my goal is to get it done by the end of the calendar year. Um I think everybody has interest in making sure that everybody is safe when they're responding to calls. And I think that's a piece of the
piece of the puzzle, but it's not the only thing. So, and I think we're we're having having productive conversations. Um, and it's it's getting the the pens to paper and making it happen.
>> Okay. Thank you. And as I'm sure you would do this anyways, but just to explicitly state, I would love to get like an update as to like if that does happen by the end of the uh the calendar year that that we could be updated on that immediately. um and so that we know
when that's going to happen and so that we can also work to communicate with the community because while I do want to credit Crest for doing an amazing job with limited funding and limited staff um and limited ability to actually do their job because we as a town have not
provided them with the resources to do so. uh that we heard from a member at least from the CSSJC and I know many people in this community who are my personal friends who know that I've been doing this work for many years who still don't know about Crest. So there is
still a lot of community outreach and engagement that needs to happen. Um and I think a lot of the reason why that that is the case is because they are not functional around the clock like the police department. And so they actually cannot be fully utilized as an alternative to the police simply because
of their hours. Um and so I think these are things that we really need to look into. Um but I do think starting with dispatch is going to be critically important. Um, but I hope as a council we were we will remain openminded to the fact that when Crest begins to get
dispatch calls, they may need more staff and more resources to be able to respond to those things appropriately and they may need more hours to be able to respond to the calls that will come in during the critical times that were outlined in the LEAP report. Um, my other question is, um, and forgive me
for not having this pulled up on my computer because I couldn't find it in a quick search. Um, but we did pass a motion as a council to establish an anti-racist environment at the police department. We've never been updated on what was
happening there. That was like a formal motion passed by the council after the CSWG. Um, so can we get an update on what's going on with that? >> Sure. I update the council monthly on the seven things that you voted uh in my town manager report. Um,
and I can look into into I don't think that's one of them, but I can look into to where we are with that. I know the um DEI department put together a five-year um strategic plan which includes uh bringing trainings into the different departments. Um,
and I just don't it's it's like every two years there's a different goal. I I don't have it memorized. I just read it a few weeks ago though. But I think they have a really nice plan for extending training to town staffs department by department and they're and they're doing ongoing stuff now sort of more of the
training of the willing and training training the trainers type thing but we really do need to get it into all departments where it's an expectation that everybody will participate. We carve out time during the court the workday for people to participate. >> Um thank you that is helpful. Just one
last follow-up comment to that. Um, in that I think though that the motion, and again I apologize for not having the exact language in front of me at this moment, was for the police department to establish uh an anti-racist culture within the PD. And I believe there may
have been some delay on that because I think it was during the time where we knew there was turnover with the police chief. Um, and so like I know there's grace there in terms of like letting the new police chief settle in, but I believe he's fully settled. Um, and so I'm hoping that maybe in the coming
council meetings that we might get a formal report on what the PD has done, not what the DEI department has done to establish a proactively anti-racist culture within the police department. >> So I think that was part of the CSWG recommendations, develop an anti-racism
departmental culture in the Amir Police Department. I don't remember seeing that as a council vote. I proposed it as a motion during the meeting where we discussed the youth the incident with the youth and it did pass. >> Um so yes that was a formally passed motion by the council actually a number
of years ago at this point but we just have never followed up on that. So I don't expect you to have an answer right this moment but I would love to see an update on that at least a plan as to what they're going to do if it has not started yet as soon as that is possible. >> Thank you.
Um thank you uh Pam. >> Thank you. All these all these elements um have been talked about for a really long time and do need to be addressed. I'm just going to talk about two um and one is um a question to both the
director of crest and to the town manager. um are people open to changing the hours of operation or is there something in the way of of doing that so that in fact they are um the staff is available to uh the public at the time
that they're needed. So that's one question and then the other is um uh the the whole discussion about the review of policies and to me the the the review of I guess if cat was doing most of that work with the
police department. Um the whole thing about the reviewing policies of of dealing with minors seems to be something that would be fairly straightforward and and fairly easy to accomplish. It's it's disappointing that even that
one hasn't been tackled. Thank you. >> In terms of the uh hours, I would defer to Camille in terms of who whether her staff would be open. I think it's a negotiable item. the they're the responders are all SEIU uh represented
by SEIU as a collective bargaining representation and I think their hours are in there but I think there's some um ability to have um shift differential to work later hours. I just don't remember the contract right now. >> Yeah,
>> please move to the mic. Thank you. >> Yes, there is. Um, also to let folks know, one of the things that is hindering is the staffing that we have and with vacations, time off, etc. But one of the other things is that while
many of the police calls, uh, 911 calls are happening after 4:00, the calls that we're dealing with during the day that are diversion are happening during the day. There are people that are at the door before 8:00 and are not allowed in the door until 8:00 to come in to talk
to staff. There are times that we have helped people go to court to avoid being arrested. One of those was today and happened at 2:00 in the afternoon. So there is a lot of things that are happening that are not being captured on
the CADS the computerated dispatch that are now being captured on our crest reports. So a lot of the work that is being done is being done outside of the police. >> Okay. Thank you um Jennifer.
>> Thank you. And thank you to the CS um CSSJC representatives for really excellent presentation tonight. Um and very sobering because we are so behind on implementing so many of of the
recommendations. So, um I have the same concern about dispatch um because it did, you know, again, I won't reiterate what's been said, but it seems, you know, like in every town manager report for the last several years, it's been that protocols um reviewing protocols
are in process. So, how do we move beyond that that point? There's um on the list of items that were in process or had committed to implementing previously. I mean, how do we get a
handle on that? And I don't know if it's I mean, I know that there are I don't know if we need more of a council liaison to the to the CSSJC or how do we really get through that list? I mean start working through and I mean there's some
items that it seems you know like we we're um bringing on a new uh planning director and e/economic development director that person could um you know work with the black business association of the Amorest area or the BIPO business
organization. I mean that seems like that would be an appropriate liaison to the business community. I mean maybe that's something that we could do soon almost immediately but how do we sit
down together and really look at what we can implement when so that it really happens and we don't have another report that you know committee doesn't come back in 6 months or a year and we're at the same place. I mean, it's I guess as
a counselor and I realize I mean tomorrow's election day and my days could be numbered on the council, but what could we do to really work with CSSJC and start to implement, you know, these recommendations? I know we can't do all of them. We can't do all
of them at once, but we could do a better job than we're doing. So, what what can we do? I I'm not really I guess looking for an answer but there I would like if if there was some way I don't know if we have a subcommittee
that we form out of this conversation but just to get things moving um we need to do that and not just thank the committee for their report so I so I I have so this will sound
selferving And I will first by say say say that we're not making the progress that we need. But um and but I do think that it's worth looking at the town and what we have accomplished. I know we like to talk about what we haven't accomplished, but I do think that we're
making progress um of this uh seven goals. I believe we've made or yeah seven goals we've made good progress on four of four of them. Um five of them maybe. Um, I would argue that we have made as much progress in this area as any community in the Commonwealth. We
have the largest DEI department for a community our size. We have a community responder program that's been fully funded in with in the tax um dollars of the town um at a level about we had to reduce it by two um but we're now at
eight people and and it also achieved some significant state funding over the last couple years to help support the mission of Crest. Um, you know, I think when we look at the seven goals, we've made good progress that, you know, there's some that we haven't made enough progress on. We we haven't made enough
progress on any of them, but we have made some good progress on all of them. So, I think we I would just ask the council all to keep an eye out on what we have accomplished as well as what we haven't accomplished because I think the town has put a lot of effort and um budgetary support into these
initiatives. I think it um that should be recognized as well. Can I make a suggestion, >> please? Yeah, go ahead. >> Um, I'll use this one. In terms of the
priority related to the I think it's number three, the organizer review of public safety protocols. um that was done by the LEAP when they were looking at crests. They also did a
whole review of APD protocols which was part B. Um so that is one area that it would be really easy to say let's go back to that leap report this the other
one and implement some of that. Um, and I think that one of the things that we had talked about in our Rob bylaws that maybe didn't get touched upon enough tonight, um, was that Rob might also
have a role in looking at policies as well. So, when the bylaws are coming before go and coming back to the council, that's something that the council could look at and adopt in terms of number three.
Okay, thank you Pod. >> Thank you. Um, I'd like to also say yes, there are a lot of things um that have been put in place, but um we're in jeopardy of the progress that's being made going backwards. So DI department
may be bigger than other places, but they're having increasing numbers of responsibilities such as I believe that they're going to also be staffing the reparations committee. That is huge. Um they're staffing our committee presses. I know that they're, you know, going
back and forth in terms of who comes, but you have staff members who already have so much responsibility and they're being given more and more. Um, so I think we have to be very very careful about the progress that we have made that it doesn't, you know, backslide and
I think, you know, freezing to crest positions is a backsliding, especially when you're going to put those dispatch protocols in place. Um, you're going to need that staff responding not only to what's happening on a day-to-day right now, but then to all those dispatch
calls as well. So, um, please do not allow it to backslide when you've already made some good progress. >> And and you know, I want to add that it's about adding and that's what we're talking about. If they're not working during the optimal hours or on the
weekends when it's when a lot of the incidents happen, then you do you have to put the the the appropriate funding. And it's not just that two two positions were frozen. Cat's position was also gone because of the grant funding. So really three positions are are gone out
of crest while the the while the the police have 45 police there. So what has happened you know part of the recommendations that we talked in part A was to decrease also the the the usefulness of the police in terms of nonviolent incidents because as we've
stated crest could could could be responding to a lot more. So yes, you do need to increase the staffing. You do need to increase those in order for for for the hours to, you know, to make sense in terms of when the incidents actually happen. And in terms of
policies, you can't just overburden, as what Erica stated, you can't overburden DEI and Crest who are already under staff and when the town manager just froze Crest's positions without giving them more and now you're going to burden them. No, the police department needs to
take ownership of that. you know, they need to look at their policies. They need to revise their policies. They need to make the department actively anti-racist and look at their minors policy because I know that one of the um councelor Walker had asked about the minor policy. I mean, where is any of
that at? It can't be just DEI and Cresa's job. It has to be all of the town department t taking that active stance as actively anti-racist. Uh, councelor Heni. >> So, Pam asked one of my questions, which
is, was there anything or is there anything preventing Crest from changing its hours um to be the hours that would be more useful for what we intended Crest to be created um to do when it was created? Uh in the memo that the town
manager wrote asking us to establish crass, he wrote, "The reason for creating this agency is to provide community safety services in situations that don't involve violence or serious crime. It will create a civilian unarmed
alternative to calls that might otherwise require a response from the police department. I hear a lot about what Crest is doing, but I don't understand how that relates to what we thought it was going to do because
I and my ignorance could be the case, but police unarmed responses to alternatives to calls that might otherwise require a response from the police department doesn't sound like creating new
diversion programs to me, for an example, or as some other calls that were in a uh that Crest has responded to um helping someone deal with phone challenges or um paying bills or
applying for services which are not things I'm not saying they're not worthwhile but they're not what we envisioned the program doing. Um, and so I guess my question is why aren't we
working to change the times to the times that would be most helpful for responders to be there to respond to the calls that we envisioned back in 2021 this program doing number one. And number two,
back during the finance meetings last year, we were told that the cso officer that is a grant-f funded position dealing with the police department, they have two part-time CSOs that come
in. They come in at night and work at night. And they don't get dispatched directly from dispatch either, but they listen to the dispatch calls. And when they hear a call that they think sounds like something that was within their purview, could be within their purview,
they could help with, they actually go out proactively. And it doesn't I I didn't hear the same thing from Crest. is Crest. So my other question is, is Crest actually listening to the dispatch calls while they're in the office and
proactively responding to dispatch calls that they hear that say, "Oh, this is something we could do as an unarmed alternative to calls that might now be going to police." Um because I'm not sure I've heard that and I could be wrong and I I will admit I might be
wrong, but it seems like those are two things that could have been done that are not within the council's purview to make crests more effective while we work out this dispatch program, which frankly should have been worked out years ago. I
I think many of us are in agreement with that. So can I struggle with what the council can do when from a counselor point of view it doesn't seem like
the department has done and taken a proactive response to be what the memo in November of 2021 was written for what we intended Crest to within its current confines and I know
those confines are its own issue. >> Okay. To answer that, so when I came in a year and a half ago, um the crest department was in a very different place. Um I instituted protocols and
revamped the department. So we on our radios do not hear dispatch to APD. However, we do have a receiver in the office that does have APD on it. So, there has been since this summer that
when there is a call for APD, um for example, there was a call to Triangle Park, which is right outside, a team has gone out there and beat the police and been able to deescalate the situation before the police even came. And the
police came and were like, "Crest is here. they're handling it. So yes, we do if it is within a certain area because again the police have lights and sirens and we do not. But it if if it is something that is within close or if a
team is out, I can send them a message to go to that call um to be on standby to aid if needed. Also, another thing um is that one of the areas that we go to frequently is the Emmer Survival Center
because there have been a lot of um issues or minor disturbances that are happening and they're going to increase now with the SNAP benefits being stopped. So that is 4 days a week that we go out there just before 12:00 when the lines are starting just to make sure
that people are comfortable and that there is no need for a police officer to be there because people are very weary of having a police officer there. So the short answer is yes, we are self-dispatching, but that that is something that has just come about this
past summer because the need is there and forward thinking um we're able to do it. Can I just tag on crest folks have come in and stopped
um very previolent situations inside the survival center and so police haven't been called and they've consistently done that. >> I also I'd like to add on to that Lynn. Um so I think the other thing that Crest has discovered it's what was written
five years ago is the the whole um field of community responders has changed over time you know it's developed new protocols have been developed you know purposes have been uh established they're they're maturing in many ways so so we're sort of in that first group of
you know not maybe not the first cahoots and you know some of the other ones were first but we're probably in that second group of of community response teams that have been going out there so I think that It has it some of that has been developed over time. One of the things that we learned was that working
upstream prevents things downstream. So if you're working with someone who's experiencing homelessness or just agitated a little bit and you intervene early versus letting that get to a crisis mode where someone feels on the street they have to call 911 or you can go into a store and sort of encourage
someone to move on forward that averts something. And so I think that's what Crest has learned as well um in terms of intervening earlier rather than waiting for there to be a crisis because that's when police are called. So you get that and you avoid some of those calls. Just what Pat was sort of saying at at at um
survival center >> and I think the CSWG had put together a list of recommendations, right? Crest is one of them, but a lot of the other ones looked at proactive ways to be, you know, for example, the youth empowerment center. If there's a place for youth to
gather and they're not out on the streets, there's less of a chance that they would interface with the police. And so if you're helping somebody fill out a housing application, for example, you're
potentially having that person avoid being on the street and and seen it by somebody maybe as a nuisance and having the police called on them for that when really what they need is a place to be. Um, so I think a little bit of it is
rethinking what public safety is because having a house is safety. Having food to eat is safety. Having a safe place to be is safety. And and having access to the people that you care about and having that phone call availability, that is
safety for a person. It might not be taking a call away from the police, but it is maybe again avoiding the police from being called because we've met that person's basic needs. Um, so I think in thinking about safety, we we have to
think about resources for people and and how that also impacts their ability to feel seen and to feel like they are a part of this community. And let me just just to u um answer councelor Hanaki's um question. The
other part of it is that the community really relies on crest to be able to be there for them. Right. So when you're talking about um you know sorry and and can you remind me of your question just so I can kind of go into it a little bit
more? >> It was kind of rambling and I'm not sure I could repeat it myself. Um, the two main questions were that the hours changing, why wouldn't we change the hours if if it's possible to >> when the calls are coming in to dispatch
and then you can listen to dispatch and all of that. And the second one was um about uh let me >> the CSO >> the CSO yes >> and that's the thing in terms of the CSOS I mean and and this has been developing right in terms of Crest being
able to respond to more calls and there has been resistance right natural resistance from the ABD and so trying to like work through it because Crest is trying to be respectful to the APD in terms of okay you've been the one responding to all of this so it's different from a cso that works within
the APD that you know obviously you know is there and and listening to the calls and a lot of times what I've heard too is that the police go first and then they call in the CSOS so not necessarily the CSOS that kind of go out you know first and the the point of our CSWG
recommendation was that press needs to be independent because to deal with the mistrust that the community has towards the police. So if you're just, you know, having the police send out crest or or or or those types of things, you know, first, whereas it's kind of figuring out
the calls, right? Okay. So these calls are the ones that Crest needs to go to so that they can arrive first because if the police arrives first and then they hand it off to Crest for a call that could have been Crest, that's already intimidating. That's already building that fear and that mistrust with the
community. So that's why Crest has been respectful, right? let's work out these protocols, let's do all of these things. But now I'm happy to hear that they are getting more into, you know, you know, listening to the dispatch. But I think they're feeling more comfortable in terms of doing that because they've built those relationships. So bottom
line is we need to have those protocols in place. These issues need to be um decided so that there isn't confusion and there isn't confusion for for the community. you know, at the end of the day, who are the ones that are going to be impacted if the police show up to
incidents that crest should really be showing up to? >> I think also um to talk about one of the things is is that yes, this has taken a a long time. Um, I've been here a year and a half. So, from previous, I understand it's been a long time, but in
the year and a half that I've been here, I've seen the department grow in leaps and bounds, and the type of calls that we're going to have really increased. We have uh a neighbor who said without Crest, they wouldn't be alive today. So these are the type of things that we
have built relationships and there is a big difference when you have a relationship with someone and they can call you up and say I'm not having a good day. I need help you know and they don't want to deal with the police. They're having a mental health crisis
but they're not at that level. So there are times that we're able to go in and we can go assess the situation. And the beauty of having a relationship with APD and the cso is that if we feel that it is above ours that we can call the cso
to come in, we do a warm handoff and then go from there. So we are all working in conjunction. But before it was only you had your choice of a police or b the fire department and it's now
there's a third branch. So we all have to redefine what is it that is our roles and that's what we've been doing. Yes, it has taken time but as we're doing this it is getting better and better and better. Um
several of the questions I was going to ask have already been asked like t hours and protocols and so forth. the observation that keeps coming back for me about Crest and that is that there's a fine line between
social services and prevention down the road and in many ways and I I said this at one of our one of the meetings we had down at Atkins I think it was Crest filled a role in our
community that I don't think we realized we had and it the role of being more with people in a more intimate way. I don't mean intimate negatively. I mean intimate knowledge of
what they need and helping to connect them to things that they need. And in and the police either don't have the time for that or they aren't going to be called on. And so in many ways it's
connected um other services of the community like survival center and so forth. But it's it it's hard for me to explain what it is because it's
not just a substitute for police. It's not just an alternative for police. It's also a social service that reaches out to somebody who might be suicidal, reaches out to somebody whose family is having some kind of serious crisis. And
so to me, Crest has filled in a lot more around those community needs and in the process they've established relationships that otherwise wouldn't have been established. So, it's hard for
me to verbalize what I'm seeing and what I've observed with Crest, but what I do think it has done is create some confidence in the community that there's someone else there, that they don't need
to always go to the police or they don't need to always go to EMS or whatever. Um, I want to thank you for the hard work, Camille, that you've been doing to, you know, move the team along since you've been here for a year and a half.
And, um, because in many ways, Crest is the centerpiece of the many, many different recommendations. It's kind of been the the main focus of what we've done. It's where we put the most resources and so forth. It's not to say the others aren't important, but that's
just a observation to add to this. Um, and Lynn, sorry, just quickly. I mean, that's that's true and that's obviously, you know, really goes to Crescent. It's hard work, but it has to be an and both, right? It it still has to serve the purpose that CSWG um uh recommended, which was for it to
be alternative to policing. We had always envisioned that Crest would have a social service component. We didn't envision it not to have that, but the the priority though for Crest was an alternative to policing because of the intimidation and the fear. And that's the thing that I I want to make sure
people are not forgetting. That's the thing that we get the calls from our constituents, our community members here who, you know, look like me and and others that are are basically saying I don't feel comfortable calling the police, you know, and I didn't, you know, unless it's like a life or death,
that's the only situation where I'm going to be calling the police if it's serious serious emergency. And that's my situation. That's the only way I would call the police. I'm not going to call the police, but for that because when the police show up, I don't feel safe for any other reason, you know. And so, so for me, that's why it's it's
important for us to not forget that part. That part is was the reason why we created Crest is alternative to pleasing first and foremost. And then that social service aspect, too, >> for sure. >> Yeah. And I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have crest be that
alternative. I'm just trying to observe that in its growth period, it's also filled this other need that I think has helped build confidence in the community uh about what we have for them. But
anyway, um I I'm not going to try to go into other pieces because of the hour and whatever, but frail. >> So I was just wondering, excuse how would respond to the presence of ICE
in town and are there any protocols in place for that kind of scenario? So, as everyone else, we've been talking about what to do with ICE. We have the red guards to the red cards to give to folks. Um, however, as a town
department, we cannot directly interfere with any um ongoing investigation. But I can say that we would also be there to support the family um or the persons that um are dealing with ICE and
that is it's a difficult situation to be put in. Um and thankfully it's not one we've had to deal with. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um I'm going to just quickly go to the other people and I'm also going to lower my own hand. Um, and let's This is
an on conversation and we're not going to be able to finish it tonight. So, hala council counselor Lord. >> Um, thank you. And I'd like to please Well, okay. I want to thank the members of CSSJC for the work you do year round,
the relationship you build in our community, the knowledge of this presentation that you've shared with us, and the call to accountability that you've raised. I also appreciate that we're talking about what community safety looks like in expansive ways and what is building the beloved community
that our DEI is working on and building relationships and statistically preventing being proactive ends up costing municipalities a lot less and it's not just about money but then when needing to be reactive and I could share the data if you ever want but then I was
going to ask councelor Walker because I want to um please make a motion but I didn't know if can I make a motion If councelor Walker's hand is up, >> you can you can certainly make a you can certainly make a motion,
but um I >> sorry can't hear you. >> Oh, you can't hear me? No. Okay. I move that the priorities set and voted on November 14th, 2022 continue to be implemented and
enthusiastically supported, adding that we support the town manager in getting the crest department to be up on dispatch by the end of December 2025. >> Second. >> Did that sound like a motion, Athena? Cuz it's my first one.
>> Can I'm going to I'm going to ask for a second and then I'm going to go back to have you repeat the motion. Second, D'Angelus. >> Okay. Now, would you please go back and repeat the motion? >> Okay. And I'm okay with some friendly amendments to my grammar and Okay. I
move that the priorities set and voted on November 14th, 2022 continue to be implemented and enthusiastically supported.
adding that means in addition to the seven that we support the town manager in getting in in his goal to get the crest department to be on dispatch by the end of December
2025. Okay. The way I'm hearing the motion is that it's reaffirming our commitment to the initial motion and also to encourage and support the town manager to um get
dispatched going by the end of December. >> Right. >> Okay. Are there any questions or comments? >> Alicia, you have your hand. Councelor Walker, you have your hand up. >> Yes. Thank you. So, this is actually kind of perfect because I was just going to respond to Mandy Joe's question like
what can we do as a council and I was going to say hold the town manager accountable because there's not much else we can do. So, I feel like Holla did is doing that now. Um, and so I do support this motion. Um, I had one other thing I wanted to speak to, but I'm not sure it's covered in this motion and so maybe I'll just say it and if it's not
the time to talk about it, but um, I was hoping that we could I mean I just it feels like we did a little bit of a disservice to the CSSJC in terms of how late this conversation went and how much more uh, in-depth it feels like we could
go into this conversation and so that maybe we find a time in the future to have an entire meeting dedicated to meeting with the CSSJC and not sandwiching sandwiching it in between other also very important and lengthy things. Um and maybe after this
motion we can have an update on what actually did happen with the money for the youth empowerment center. Thank you. And we can move along with the motion. >> All right. Um those are all down the future future
things. Uh Paul, do you want to talk about the 5,000 for the youth empowerment? >> Sure. Um so if you recall back in uh just looking for the memo I sent to the council, um earlier this year, February of 2025, uh
I had reported that we had um given what was happening with the federal government, we were fearful that the new administration was going to claw back our ARPA funds. So, our goal was to reallocate those funds, put it into free cash and report what we had allocated
those funds um for in the report to the council, which is I did on February 7th. And so, at that point, uh we had uh previously and we sort of said, here's what we had thought we were going to use the money for. We're putting into free cash. So, it's not lost, it's not missing, it's in free cash. And we
talked about that earlier tonight, how the ARPA funds are going to inflate free cash. and we had put in money for the bank's community center and we had $455,000 available for the youth empowerment center and that's so it's it's there's free cash I had designated for for um
for youth empowerment center work um and but right now because it's in free cash it would require appropriation from the town council >> but the money is still there. >> It's in free cash. Sure. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. When is the youth empowerment center going to be established and when who has the answers
to answer CSGC's questions about the youth empowerment center on a monthly basis? >> Paul, >> so Youth Empowerment Center is a is a big ask and it's we have a lot of other capital projects that are that we need to be addressing as well. We wanted to show good faith in moving this forward.
I think because we know we're not going to be building a youth empowerment center anytime soon. We have also have a senior center that people are requesting and a cultural uh bipok cultural center. Um that's why we put a lot of effort into programming which is like the morning movement and mentoring DEI crest a lot of different or recreation
department are all doing a ton of programming and uh youth empowerment because that's those kids are are growing up every year. So we're putting effort into that. That's not the same as a youth empowerment center. I agree with um Algra that there needs to be a place
for youth to go. Um we have it on the radar as we start to look at um buildings that might be available going forward. So it's we know what the needs are. We know we need a senior center. We know youth empowerment center um and we're trying to address them as buildings become available. We will have
you know we have Wildwood coming open if the schools give it to us. That's something we would look at as a potential use there. Um, you know, anytime we're doing any building, we look at space that might serve as a youth empowerment center. Usually spaces are too small that we have, but looking
for something that would be a service for that. Um, there is a motion on the floor. The motion's been made and seconded. Uh, Anna, did you want to speak to the motion? >> I do, and I'll have a comment unrelated
to this motion for after, but one of the things I think this motion makes a lot of sense. uh if I'm reme again my memory gets a little shorter after uh after about 10, but um if I'm understanding correctly, this is really focusing on this year. Uh but what I'd love also is
a preview of coming attractions. If folks could keep these things in mind as we get into the discussion of the town manager goals for the coming year as well. Um thinking through what is going to be making sense to do by December and then what is the next iteration, right? like what's the next what are the next
12 months looking like because that is coming down the pike. So as just something to bear in mind as we go forward here. >> That was Anna's advertisement for future go please. >> Sorry I had to do it. >> I know you did it. You got it right in
the right place. Thank you. Uh Andy, >> I appreciate the motion is on the floor. I think we should be uh discussing it thoroughly. I just don't think that 11:30 at night after all after a meeting that started at 6:00
is the best time that we're all getting to the point of maximum exhaustion. So, I would like to uh make a motion to postpone to a certain time, but I think that uh I would need guidance as to what
time to put into that motion if I make it. Well, let me just tell you, I just went back over my calendar and I looked at the um Mondays between
>> Yeah. Right. Uh and I will be pulling the council for additional meetings. However, the motion's on the floor and um we have between now and the end of December, unless you want to count the
29th of December, we have the option of seven meetings. >> Excuse me. >> I'm holding you. >> It does seem like right now we could take the time to vote on this motion, >> right? and
other things that we >> can I just ask the motion is the one on dispatch, right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Then I'm going to exercise my rights under charter section 210 C. again. >> I just don't believe that we can have a
good thorough discussion at this time of all of the aspects of the motion which I think is an important motion for us to consider. >> May I >> May I ask a point of information
>> please? When that is exercised, has the town the council president noticed a meeting for this coming Saturday as a council meeting during the four towns meeting? >> Yes. >> So that is when this motion to postpone the right to postpone would automatically be pushed to at this point
in time. >> Well, I think but >> if he exercised it, that's when it would be pushed to the four towns meeting. Is that correct? >> That would be correct unless he says a date certain. >> Ex the charter doesn't do a date certain. if he's exercising the right to postpone. >> I don't know what we're going to do
after this because we have the housing production plan. We have urinating and defecate. No, I'm going to talk for a minute. We have urinating and defecation. We have the u high the junior high school roof. And I'm going
to call to postpone on all of those if we're stopping this now. Okay. A mo a counselor has exercised their right unless you are willing to withdraw your right to postpone.
I don't think I have a choice. >> Do I? >> Could I just have a a a point of clarification or point of order? >> Yes. My understanding is the right to postpone is I'm My understanding is the right to postpone is not debatable. >> It's correct.
>> Thank you. >> Point of order is uh Andy, are you exercising your right to postpone specifically on this motion? >> Well, I think that's all I can do. But I I really think that there's a point at
which and we had discussed this early on in the history of this council that there's a point at time at night when it no longer makes sense to continue to meet that we cannot continue to and we
did um have that discussion at the time and there was a a time in the rules I don't know what happened to that rule in the meantime. But I think that we've gone beyond that and uh I think this is an important motion. Uh but I just don't
feel like we can give it the kind of uh discussion that it really merits at this time. >> Point of order. Yes. Can the person who um did the postponement uh repeal his
postponement and let us get on with it? >> Don't think you can reh >> So is is Mandy correct then we have to take this up at the four towns meeting? >> That's correct. That is our next >> whether we're asking for dispatch to
happen by December. Well, it's by the end >> by the end of December. That when you postpone, you postpone to the next meeting. The next meeting posted for the council is this Saturday for the four towns meeting. >> And this is taking a hell of a lot of time. So, let's move on.
>> It's not debatable. And so, the reality is unless the motioner withdraws it, it's not debatable. And the only thing that's been motioned is that the motion will not be acted on. Okay, Andy, do you have your hand up for
a reason? >> I can speak. I I mean I would rather postpone to a certain time and have it postpone to a meeting, but I not going to um go around the room checking to see if I have a
number there enough votes to do that. Um, I just uh think it does a disservice to the council, the community to uh make a to take up a motion like this
at 11:30 at night after we started meeting at 6:00. >> Point of information, there's a TSO meeting scheduled on Thursday. A special council meeting could be called either immediately before or immediately after the TSO meeting or a special meeting
could be scheduled Thursday afternoon or Friday. Um, we could also schedule a special council meeting before the four towns meeting on Saturday. I'm just checking something. Is that our first meeting that's scheduled?
is the TSO meeting. >> Yes, that's the next committee meeting. >> There's a CRC meeting on Thursday, >> Thursday afternoon, >> 3 to 5, but I think there's also a hearing on chapter 70. >> That's correct. >> That's that evening.
>> That's correct. All right. Uh I'm going to uh then suggest that on November 6th at noon the council continue this conversation so that it's postponed to the 6th. How
many it Thursday noon please raise your hand if you cannot be available is the suggestion we're meeting just to vote on this one motion
yes okay not available I see five people not available I'm I'm halfway there. I'd have to move something for work. >> I'm sorry. I Is that you want to >> I Yeah, I apologize. I was I'm looking
at my calendar and possibly could make myself available. >> Um Okay. So, I I have to move something too. Um is there any other question about that?
So, the next meeting of the town council is going to be Yes. Uh, councelor Walker. >> Um, I know this decision doesn't ne doesn't revolve around me, but I'm in class until 3:30 and so I would not be able to attend. Um, and it feels
particularly important to me. Not only just because I support the motion, but the uh specific motion that I was referencing to uh Paul earlier that I proposed is was on that meeting. It was
from the November 14th, 2022 meeting and is included in those things. Um and so like that was also exactly what I was talking about. And so if there was a time that I was available, I would prefer that. But um yes, I'm not available at noon on >> Let me try another one. Nove how about
9:00 in the morning on that Thursday. If you cannot be there at 9:00 on Thursday morning, please raise your hand. Now that's that's even worse.
Yep. Okay. All right, then. Uh let me look at the next day. Sorry. >> Can I ask a clarifying question? >> If Lynn, if if we are if the motion to postpone is pushed to this meeting that
you're currently trying to schedule, if any other items on the agenda, uh, another counselor uses their right to postpone those items, they would also go to that this pending meeting. Is that correct? >> They would. >> We just wanted to confirm that. So, we're not looking at a fiveminute
meeting uh at this point because all of those other items unless you as chair uh or as president, excuse me, decide to move them prior to someone making that motion to postpone. >> I am moving several things to another meeting and it's not this meeting. I can
tell you exactly what I'm moving. Okay. You ready? >> Oh, I'm ready. I don't know if you were asking me specifically, but very ready. I am moving off of this agenda the housing production plan
the um proposed zoning amendment to accessory dwelling. >> Could I ask for clarification when you say moving off the agenda? Could you also say if you've decided what meeting you're moving it to? What meeting you're moving it to? If you've decided >> unless we can schedule another meeting
at this point, the following items will be moved to November 17th. the housing production plan, the zoning amendment we had already postponed, but we don't know to when University Drive easement and
acceptance of public ways. I am also moving to that time, the 17th, the establishment of the transportation and parking commission and the commission charge and amendments to the town council policy regarding the control and
use of the public way. I am also postponing to lap meeting public urination and defecation bylaw first read and the proposed amendments of to council committee charges. What I am keeping on the amendment
unless you tell me differently. Can we postpone the vote on the roof? >> If if if we fail to take an action in 60 days it's approved. So in it's a it's it's a pocket
approval. I would like to make sure the school committee knows that we made a recommendation to say yes. >> So So the thing is if we don't vote, they have to wait 60 days. They can't do anything with it until the 60 days expire. >> I'm going to leave that on the agenda
for tonight. Um and the other thing that I have to leave on the agenda for tonight are two other items. One is the town manager uh appointment of the planning and economic development director and the other thing I have to mention to you and you don't have to talk about it tonight. >> That was taken up during the consent
agenda. >> No, it all all that was taken up during consent was the movement to wave the committee approval. >> Right. >> We still have to vote the vote the position. >> Okay. Which point of order is pocket
approved if we don't vote within 14 days? >> There you go. So, that one we don't have. >> When did he submit it? Thursday of last week. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. And the only other thing is I need to draw your attention to the fact that in the packet is a
PowerPoint presentation that uh is proposed to be presented at the four towns meeting. And I'm going to ask you to send any suggestions you have. so that I have them no later than tomorrow at close of business.
Okay, given that we've now we've now postponed, we're now looking for the next meeting date and the next meeting date will be just for this purpose. And uh one option I'm going to look at Friday.
Who wants to throw out a time for Friday? 3:30 on Friday. Alicia, can you make that? Pam, can you make that? George, can you make that? Andy, can you make that?
>> Yes. >> Okay. Right now we're looking at 3:30 on Friday. Anna, >> yes. Mandy Joe. >> It's slightly after 4. I can make it, but I can't make 3:30.
>> Four. We're moving to four. >> I I board a train at 4, so I can't be on a call until I've actually sat down. >> There you go. Um, okay. I can make that. Bob Hegner. >> Yes.
Pat D'Angelus 4 >> 4:15 we're moving to 4:15 Holla >> did you say yes >> yes >> thank you Kathy >> yes >> Jennifer
>> yes >> we have a quorum that count November 7th the agenda item will be this this item. Okay.
>> Okay. And can can I make a request that we we get in writing what that motion was? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Sorry, Lynn. You said 4:15. >> 4:15.
Okay. President, Miss President, so what happens to us though? Because we wanted to be present when the motion is heard and discussed. So what happens to us CSSJC who are the
kind of real uh motivation for this mo motion having happened? >> So I would like to poll you and see whether you're available at 4:15 on Friday. >> Yes, Algra.
Not >> okay. >> Point of clarification. This motion is just to affirm what you voted on November 14th, 2022. >> Yes. >> And to ask the town manager to have the dispatch protocols done by the end of
the year, which he already agreed to. Is that what the motion is? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> That is the motion. and and it's a motion on the count for the council to act.
>> The motion that you made now. >> I'm sorry. >> It's so late. I'm really getting tired. But if you reread the motion that was on the floor just so I because I had a particular concern and
if it's just going to be about that >> we're not debating it. No. Huh? >> All right. What was your concern? >> I just as read the motion back.
How do you want me to read it? Okay. I move microphone. I move that the priorities set and voted on November 14th, 2022 continue
to be imp implemented and enthusiastically supported. adding that we support the town manager in his stated goal of getting crest department to be on dispatch by the end
of December 2025. >> Andy, what is your question? tell you what my concern was and why I running out of energy on this. I would like to know what the financial
implications are of the motion that is on the floor before voting on the motion. We started the evening talking about fiscal discipline and I just want to
make sure after having had advice that we at least are looking at the question of fiscal discipline and I don't think that we have the capacity to do that at 11:45 at night. >> As I understand it, it will be no new
additional financial implication because it's a goal that they're already working on. He stated it will be done. So there is no cost as I understand to my motion. Thank you. So Andy, unless you withdraw your
postponement, I can't do anything except except it. Okay. the mo the postponement stands. The council will meet on Friday the 7th
at 4:15. Um the it's a motion before the council. We would love to have CSSJC here. Uh but it is and if you want to post a meeting, please go ahead. Uh but it's really a
motion for the council at this point. Um, >> we'd like to be present. >> Fine. >> Good. All right. Um, we're going to move on very quickly. Uh, do we want to do anything with the regional debt? Do we
just want to let it go? I think my right charter right to >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Point of order. Sorry. Point of order. Um I that last motion was not the only or the final uh discussion point that we were talking about with the CSSJC. Um and unless we
are and that's why I asked the question about the right to postpone being specific to the motion. I had other comments that I wanted to make on this topic specifically. >> Oh uh it's all that was was for the motion. Yeah. >> So, if you want to have any other comments with regard to the CSSJC report
tonight, please raise your hand. Otherwise, please lower your hand. We're not taking a vote on the motion. George Coun. Okay. Uh Pam Rooney.
D. Yes, you do. Uh, councelor Walker. >> Um, thank you. I was actually just going to, you know, I know we're tableabling the motion, but we still have the CSSJC here in front of us. And I know it was like important that we figure out when
we could speak about this motion and postpone it, but I feel like it feels slightly inappropriate to be deciding all of these other things in terms of other agenda items and other things when they are still sitting here right in front of us. They are not council members. It is 11:48 at night. Many of
them have been here since 6:00. Um, and they are an unstipened committee and we have wasted their entire night and we're talking about other things that have nothing to do with their recommendation during their time after we made them wait for 2 years to get back in front of the council. So, I hope that if there's
anything else we want to address from their report um, aside from the motion that we might do that now and let them go home. >> Thank you. Anna, >> so I uh want to thank the CSSJC for
coming in and and for sharing your updates. One other piece, there was a lot in what you presented and um I'm sure that more questions will continue to come up as we digest it and as we continue to have these conversations hopefully more often. One piece I do
want to focus on briefly is the mention you mentioned a liaison a few times and we do have a leazison. you know, councelor Lord is is the council leaison, but due to the rules, uh the way that our rules are structured, our liaison are not really able to contribute to the bodies that they are
liaison for. Uh and so my my question is partly for the council, partly for the CSSJC. Um, so to the CSSGC, I'm curious if in in talking about a liaison, you're asking the council to re-evaluate your charge uh and rewrite your charge and
for the council whether or not that's something that would be of interest to refer to to go at some point. Um, and in doing so, whether the committee believes that a town councilor member would be something that they would like to advocate the council add to that charge
um in going forward. I was curious to hear any any obviously individual thoughts since the committee will not have had a option to discuss this and vote but if there are individual committee member thoughts on that idea. Well, I guess um if uh um you know
council, thank you for the your question, but I guess I I want to learn more about what would the town council leazison because you are right. I mean, you know, um council Lord does attend our meetings, but she can't contribute because of your rules and and regulations. So, my thing and and we
brought it up, right, was that we want to meet more often with the town council. We can't take, you know, 2022 was the last time we met with the town council on these issues. It can't be years and years down the road. It has to be an established time. The town manager
still hasn't told us who would be the liaison to answer the youth empowerment center. So, we don't have anyone for that. So, there's still those types of issues. So would this liaison be able to respond to questions and be able to follow up on questions that the town
council needs to to to move on? Because those are the things that our constituencies who are, you know, mostly bipok, houseless folks, homeless folks, English as a second language folks, those who are on the margins, they want us to ask these questions. Well, and I
think to to clarify what I mean is it would you could revise the charge to have a counselor as a voting member um on the body, right? Versus um or designed in some other way. I think this is something that we don't have on a lot of other committees or any other
committees to my knowledge, but um in in revising the charge, you'd have the the council would have the option to define what that role would be. Uh, and so I'm what I'm hearing from you is kind of to serve as an advocate
to the council in in many ways and to open up those lines of communication a bit more um and to have two-way communication versus the liaison which is really um really only one way communication as per design. >> Yes, if that could further yeah these these recommendations and the issues
that are brought forth to us. Yes, we should look at that. So, I'm going to suggest that on when you meet again on December 10th, I guess it is, is your next meeting. Maybe it's before then. >> No, we're meeting meeting November. We're meeting in like a week and a half.
>> Okay. Well, at your next meeting, you look at your charge and you come back to us with a recommendation for a request. Okay. All right. That's the best way to handle that. Okay. Anna, anything else? >> Not right now.
>> Okay. We want to thank you. Uh you've now seen the the worst of the underbelly. Thank you for joining us. >> Do I >> You have to adjourn your meeting. >> Just last thing, anything with the youth
empowerment town manager. >> So I give you an update on where we what's going on? >> No, no. Someone that can attend our meetings that has answers around the youth empowerment center. Uh Camille is our our leaison to the CSSJC. If there's questions, she can bring them back to me. I don't have somebody to dedicate to
this particularly. >> Okay. So, we definitely need a town leison on to be on on our committee. >> Okay. It is 11:53
and the CSSJC is adjourning its meeting. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hey Lynn, is our meeting on Friday going to be virtual or here? >> Yes. >> On Friday?
>> Yes. >> I just made that decision. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Lisha has her hand up. Okay. She did. I swear I might be losing it. >> I did. Thank you. But I I didn't mean
to. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. The next item on the agenda is the regional school debt authorization for the middle school roof. I can read the motion. It's very long.
I'll seek a second to appropriate a proport a portion of an of the amount of 10 million24,016 as determined by the regional agreement for the purpose of paying costs of Ammeris Pelum Regional Middle School
roof replacement project including the payment of all costs incidental or related there there too uh called the in friends the project Which pro proposed repair project would materially extend the useful life of the school and preserve
an asset that otherwise is capable of supporting the required educational program and for which the town may be eligible for a grant from the Mascll building authority. Just an aside, it's been approved set amount to be expended under the direction of the Emers Pelum
Regional School District to meet this appropriation. in the Emers Pelum Regional School District is authorized to borrow set amount under Mass General Law Chapter 44 or pursuant to any other enabling authority. Ammerst acknowledges
that the Massal building authorities grant program is a non-entitlement discretionary program based on need as determined by the Mass School Building Authority and any project cost of the town incurred in excess of any grant
approved by and received for the MSBA shall be the sole responsibility of the town provided further that any grant that the town may receive from the MSBA for the project shall not exceed the lesser of 61
90 61.95% of eligible approved project costs as determined by the MSBA or two the total maximum grant amount determined by the MSBA. Is there a second? >> Shane second. >> Is there any further discussion or
comment? >> No. >> Well, no. >> I'm just kidding. I don't >> I call on my charter right to postpone this issue until the next meeting which
is whatever the 7th at 4:15. >> It's a financial issue and I'm very tired. >> Okay. I've already postponed all the others except for the following and that is to wave the town c No, I'm sorry. to
approve the town manager's appointment of Jeff Bag as planning and economic development director. Is there a second? >> Second, Ryan. >> Second. >> Okay. Pat, you have your hand up. >> Kathy, you have your hand up.
>> I just My question is, did Pat postpone it to this the Friday meeting that we're about? >> Yes. Okay. I just didn't hear when Okay. Okay, this motion's been made and seconded. Are there any other comments or
questions? >> Who seconded it? >> George. >> George. Thank you. We're moving to a vote. Lynn Griezmer is an I. Councelor Hanaki. >> I. >> Bob Haggner. >> I. >> Councelor Lord. >> Pam Rooney.
We're voting on the economic development planning and economic development. >> Yes. >> George Ryan. >> Hi. >> Kathy Shane. >> Yes. >> Andy Steinberg. >> Hi. >> Jennifer Tob. >> Yes. >> Councelor Walker.
>> No. Uh Pat D'Angelus. >> Hi. >> Anna Davin Gothier. >> I councelor >> I >> I believe it's 11 in favor, one opposed, and one abstained. The motion passes.
Councelor Hanaki, >> I move to adjourn. >> I second it. >> Oh, please send me goals. The motion's been made and seconded. We are going to move immediately to a vote
uh to adjourn. Um councelor Hani >> I. >> Bob Hegner. >> Hi. >> Councelor Lord. >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> Councelor Ryan. >> Hi. >> Kathy Shane. >> Yes. >> Andy Steinberg. >> Hi. >> Jennifer Tob. >> Yes.
>> Councelor Walker. >> Yes. Pat D'Angelus, Anna Deon Gothier, >> no really need to talk about >> and Lynn Grie is an I. It's a majority rules. 12 in favor, one opposed. We're
adjourned.