made me. Okay. She said she couldn't stay with us. Okay. And so, um, so the recording has started. Um, good morning everyone. It's the May 29th meeting of the finance committee and we are, as
everyone knows, in the middle of reviewing a report to the council on our deliberations over the budget. My first order of business in calling the meeting to order is to make sure committee members can hear and we can hear them.
So, I'll just call off names. Bob present. Mandy present. Andy present. Tom present. And Bernie present. Uh Tom uh Paul Bachaman is unable to join us
today and Melissa started the meeting but cannot be here throughout. So um we will all get a recording of this meeting. She she sent us it right away. So I I we uh start our meetings with asking for any
public comments and right now we have no attendees. So we will not have any public comments. Um I the way I propose proceeding if it's all right with everyone is I took I
sent you a revised draft last night with substantial markups changes in the executive summit a new piece in uh the elementary school education section and uh Bob's responding to the discussion we
had on Tuesday in um in public safety. So, what I thought might be the most productive um would be to show a revised with with the clean clean version. So, you just see the text on the screen and
then go through uh Alicia join us. Alicia, um I'm I just want to make sure you can hear and we can hear you. I can. Thank you, Kathy. Great. So, we are here. Um we are actually everyone is
here. Um so so does does that approach make sense to everyone that I'll pull put it up on the screen and this will be the clean version. Um so people have won't be able to see the edits on it. All right. Now I probably I will just have
to take good notes because if I'm sharing the screen and calling on people I can't easily make the changes in the document. So, let me make sure I not water and sewer rates. I just want to make sure I'm
pulling up the right one. This is it. Is everyone seeing that on my screen? Yes. Okay. So this I've given it a very long title on my own thing called revised
with edits and now clean. So so I know I I can track them. So So the the changes we talked about um on Tuesday were to eliminate some of the just detail in the executive summary and focus up on the
main issues. And then there were some wording changes at the very beginning to make it clear that in the first paragraph. I'm just drawing your attention to some changes that um I thought were great. And I just accepted
the edits I got from mainly Bob and Mandy. And I had a few of my own. So that first paragraph makes it clear that the increase for the elementary school has a 1% that's considered one-time funding. and it it writes that more
clearly. It we said it before but not as clearly. Then the the other changes um are um I increased um I found out from Melissa
on uh last on Tuesday actually that in addition to the 14.2% in health insurance for employees, retirees went up by 20. five and that was one of the reason the benefit line went up by 22%
overall. And so then uh we eliminated the longer discussion about charter fund all alto together and just summarized what's happening in the schools um in terms of their employee
cuts. So I'm going to flag a couple yellow shaded ones. this now makes a stronger statement about the elementary school budget um and the free cash. Um
so I want to make sure we are all comfortable with the way this is worded um including the sentence that says we've sought assurances that this superintendent agrees with this stance to ensure that both the town begin with the process with the same assumptions.
Melissa, great. I just wanted to say that I I I have not heard back, but I only reached out to um Shannon last night um regarding the request for a you know, an acknowledgement of this, but I did reach out with her and I I want to
make sure that I understood it correctly what I told her that that that you wanted three things in the acknowledgement. One, acknowledgement that it's onetime funds. two, that it would not be in the base in future years, and three, an estimate of where
those savings andor positions would be nonrenewing in the in the future years. Did I cover everything? You did. And if she can't get us the third, I think the first two would be sufficient. I'm seeing people nod. If we just got an acknowledgement, it's one time and it
won't be in the base. That would be great. Okay. And then we can change then we can change that last sentence. Then the um we have not we've made the statement about public safety has been difficult. We haven't decided
what we want to say about Crest. So I just left Crest in the executive summary as yellow. So, um, so what we need to do as a committee is we're going to have to vote on
whether we're um approving the budget as presented and these are the financial orders and I don't have the specite precise numbers yet on these. So, we need to take a vote on these as well as the uh overall
report. And then I I think I'll stop there because the next the next section in the elementary school section, there's a another piece about this one-time funding and the interaction where we didn't get answers. So, that
that it will be that focus. And then Bob has drafted more on crest so we can look at that in the public safety. So I'm gonna stop talking and everyone got a copy of this uh you know last night. Um
and this is the clean version of the markedup version. So any comments, suggestions? And the one I heard that I not this does not do is should we have a
section that segments off in the executive summary concerns? You know, should we move some of these things to concerns where they're not they're not something where we're making a a change in the proposed budget, but we've raised
some concerns along the way. Um, and some of that's directed to the town manager and budget presentation. So that's that organization was not done. And Mandy, that was your suggestion on think about maybe whether the executive
summary should be have a section like that. And I um and then we did expand the rocky road ahead to to make it more focus on the loss of federal funds is going to make it extremely difficult and so uh Amoris and the whole state's going
to be at risk. So we strengthen that. So I am stopping there. Um and uh my personal preference is to keep executive summaries relatively short. So this one now is three pages. So that's one of the reasons I didn't try to
reorganize. So any thoughts on content um or issues, Andy? Yeah, I I have thought about three different things and I'm going to mention what they are right now in
general and then become more specific and let other people do the same thing because it may make sense to do this section by section and not jump around. Uh okay. And that's right. But um one I had some thoughts about um still the
executive summary. I made a point uh at the last meeting that I don't think is adequately reflected yet and I think it should be um trying to tie all of the changes together and as opposed
to making them into pieces with the one exception which has already been mentioned which is that the school budget um be uh the use of uh reserve funds was a one-time time
u piece but otherwise I think that there it could be tied together. I did do some drafting of language. Um the second uh thing um I'm going to have to go for in a moment but for just a second but uh
the second thing that um is involved is that um I had some thoughts about public safety and the last thing is is that when we talk about next year I think we should be a little bit more
explicit. So stop there. I guess to me it would be helpful if we hear if you have suggested language for the executive sum that you said tie all things together because I thought this does but it would be great if we got I
didn't get any suggestions from you but um be happy to hear that um as well I I will in a second I'm going to have to um go off screen for a moment because I have somebody coming in the house to do some work. Okay. So I I have the three
things. One one is in the the next year's going to be worse. Um say something more and then something on public safety. So we have three areas. Tom. Um thanks Kathy. Um I guess my thought
as far as the executive summary and the points you've highlighted is has been on crest. Um I I did not attend the public safety meeting that you mentioned earlier this week. Um so and I had hunted in vain uh at Ammeris Media for
the recording of the session that we did have which I thought was a really useful one um maybe around the 15th of May. my um I guess what you've highlighted just the heading crest and and it just I
wanted to ask for more direction on on what you think we we are trying to bring forward here. Is it is it uh hard detail or or context? the the the the department seems um to me different
than many that we cover here at least in in the um level and quality of information that we got and I don't mean that in a disparaging way. It may be that it's the nature of the um of of the effort uh that it is more
uh sort of experiential but it it seemed to me that meeting that we held there was a lot of information we couldn't really nail down. There was the issue of the protocols that are are a year late and so forth. I know what the concern
is. We heard from supporters that day uh in public comment about um you know not freezing or reducing or maybe you know not trying to make judgment too soon. I think maybe you're you're headed where I was thinking maybe we should tackle this when we get to it in the
further down in the in the detail. But I guess wanted a little advice from you to the to the team here on what is the kind of the nature of what ought to be in the executive summary as it regards Crest at
this time in in uh in the 26 budget. Uh so Tom I mean others can chime in but on Tuesday we had a fairly long discussion on what in addition to say about crash and
Bob drafted um this I'm doing the yellow piece but that that part of what we heard in and was trying to capture in this that um as yet there aren't the protocols there aren't the discharge, but that also that we may need to really
be thinking about reassessing um and and figuring out what could work. Um, so, uh, including Bernie referenced, uh, reading the Northampton Community Responder program report, which I then I put a link in here on that, which is
quite impressive in terms of how many how many visits, how many people they've seen, and how well integrated. It's a public health model, so it's different than ours, but so this was a draft of a longer piece on support of Crest.
um that alerted but but there's nothing in the executive summary because I didn't know what people wanted to say in the executive summary. So that that's just a a bit of back and forth on a um the uh that you know it's it's going a
different it as it's evolving it's different than originally expected where it was supposed to offset some specific police calls but some of it is preventing a police call from happening and we heard from these different entities that um that it was out there
doing that. Um, so this this was all added since Tuesday's draft to say more, but we didn't come up with what we want to say about this. That's that's helpful. Thank you. And it may be, you know, it says several members. Bob had
originally said we all and the council and this could be say the majority of council members I I of the committee members. So um so I so I hope that helps you. the context of that blank for crest is that was a longish discussion Tuesday
where we didn't get to a a conclusion on what to say in the executive summary. I understand. Thank you, Ernie. Yeah, I I'm thinking that for the executive summary se uh section, we could probably just steal a couple of sentences from what Bob wrote,
plug them in there. um you know that that we uh uh we see um resolving uh some issues with is a high with crest as a high priority. Assessing the program
um and that uh taking a hard look at the original concept uh and then refer people on to um to to readers on to page 19. I don't know that we need to spend a lot of time talking about crest in the executive session when we've got a
pretty good discussion um in the report already. Okay. if that's okay with people and I it um and we can say see see you know page whatever right
you're muted if you're talking we're not hearing you I know uh that's why I make change a couple things one is about crest. I mean I have thought long and
hard about this problem and I also have thought long and hard as I mentioned at the last meeting based upon the fiscal uh this the MMA fiscal policy meeting that had been earlier in the day on
Tuesday. I think that there are going to be huge problems in next year's budget and we are going to have to make some very difficult decisions. The council is going to have to make some very difficult decisions about whether major changes are going to be
necessary in order to achieve a balanced budget for 27. Um and um it frankly we're going to have to look at a lot of programs including
crests as whether uh they are things that are valued because in the end this town has got to make some tough choices about what it really prioritizes or we're going to not have roads we can drive on
um or we're not going to have schools that we feel are adequate. we're not going to have public safety that meets the needs of our community. It is not it is going to be a really tough year. And um I
I really um believe that we need to do everything we can to make sure that we have given Crest the greatest opportunity for success. and I've really been
disappointed that we haven't moved more quickly on being able to test the model that had been put forward to begin with. So, um, one of the things that I think we really that we should be doing is
being much more explicit about what we see ahead for um, 27. And um again to repeat and add a little bit to what was said at the at the fiscal policy
committee meeting, if what happens at the federal level spins down to the states, it's going to affect the state and it's going to affect municipalities. And we are going to have to be making changes on both the state level which is going to affect what the
state can do for us as it tries to preserve uh mass health and um what um needs to be done for education because I think those are two of the major areas that are going to be
affected. So, uh, you've got that. And the other thing that was pointed out was is that, um, this year the state had very good revenue. And part of the revenue is because of capital gains.
And, u most projections for capital gains are that we're going to not see the kind of capital gains this year as we did in uh, calendar year 24. So that when people are doing their tax returns
a year from uh you know for for for the current year, they're not going to have the kind of capital gains to report. So it is going to be a uh potentially really difficult year and we're going to have to make really difficult choices.
So I would like to see some more of that discussion. The other thing uh you asked if I had specific language about what you could do to tie it together a little bit better. And I did do a sentence last
night after reading it. And I'll try and read it to you because it's not it's not typed. It's handwritten. in order to develop a municipal services budget with a 4% uh increase to allow for increases of
4.8% for regional schools and 5% for elementary schools. Town manager proposed freezing four positions um and actually there's more positions than that four positions in the public
safety. So that needs to be cleaned up. uh reducing the capital improvement program budget and drawing on cash reserves to increase the elementary school budget for one year. Um I think
that's that type of sentence will do more to tie it all together than what I think we have. So you had asked if there was specific language. I did do some J um did did write something down. That's
as I said only handwritten. Okay. If if you send it to me because if you look at this right here, this points out that the municipal judge alone to stay within 4% had to do the following. I mean it froze department
supply and material budgets and reduced staff by 6.4. So we we do capture that staffing. So right in this sentence but maybe that moves up you know that that
uh do so we capture the cut in capital and the dipping into reserves. But I think what you're suggesting is before anything else goes in, it's it's in here. You want an overarching statement,
right? Yes. And I think that it's important to tie both the elementaryaries, you know, the education budget increases and the need to get to stay within 4% while we were
allowing the schools to go up more than 4%. um to tie them together because they aren't separate. They were what? They were of a whole because the budget is of a whole. Okay.
So, Kathy, may I respond? Sure. So yes, the budget is as a whole, but I guess I just disagree with Andy of tying the two together because we've already stated and the manager has already stated that the 6.2
positions is simply to keep within the four that would have been there even if the school budgets were at 4%. The 6 point there were no additional lost positions. There were no additional losses. Yeah, because the school budgets
are above 4%. Um, and so I struggle with tying the school budgets being above 4% to the 6.4 positions and I think we've tied the school budgets being above 4% to the
loss of capital and the use of free cash adequately enough. Um it is all one budget but there's no indication that if we had voted down the regional budget at 4.8% because it wasn't four that the
additional money that was above 4% would have been put into the municipal side of the budget. It would have the the evidence is that it would have gone to capital. Um, so I I I get that it's all one budget,
but I don't think we should make that tie in when it hasn't been made by the person who drafted the budget. And as specifically said, that's not the case. And andy, you you and I had an offline. I completely agree with Mandy. You know,
if you the decrease in capital was just enough. It happened to be just enough to go to the 4.8 eight for regional. So that piece was grabbed for regional and the other piece came out of cash which is which is we don't want to we don't
want to and can't keep doing that but it it didn't directly and the manager head warned us that staying within 4% was going to require staff cuts and addition they they froze expense accounts. I I
see Melissa's hand is up. So, so I just wanted to say again that those two shifts, the shifts from capital and the shift from free cash were very deliberate to the amounts requested
um by the council to increase the school department budget without affecting other departments. So that though they were specific in their exact dollar amount for what amounts were over 4% in those two budgets from other
financing sources um so that [Music] we so that so that both the library and the town departments could stay at 4%. So, I just wanted to reiterate that that the the reason the numbers
are exactly the amounts is because we worked really hard to make them sort of stand out as different and not affecting the other departments. So, I see Bernie's hand is up.
Yeah, I I I appreciate what Melissa just said. I mean, it was a deliberate attempt to um minimize damage to uh the uh the town operations and the the library operations. Uh what happened
with the schools uh is a cost. It may not have been a cost in um town positions, but it was a cost in capital and it is a cost in free cash.
And we're losing be on both those regards. We had to uh the manager had to say I'm going to um I'm going to violate our our our guidelines, our principles. I'm going to do this at one time. There's a cost there. And and again um I
suggested the other day and it's not a major point for me, but I do want to raise it again that we we're facing inflation and we're facing inflation at a higher rate than the typical family. So when you take our free cash and you you you spend it for operations and you take our capital and reduce it to spend
it for operations, you're incurring costs. Um and that that's got to be pointed out somewhere that there is a there is a loss involved with this. Um and uh I I think that that point that point needs to be made.
So, so Bernie, it may be if you can see where my arrow is, we might want to move the municipal budget up, but I added the sense the expense budgets will fail fail to keep up with inflation and we make that later in the document. um you know
they they and we later in the document we say that actually you know because they're running out on the expense side they're relying on vacancies to to to they they'll be running out by third quarter this past year so that we might
want to make that stronger and then move move this up so people see it right away. I I would appreciate that. I I um read this last night and then very quickly this morning after my first cup of coffee, so uh I missed the inflation
remark twice. Uh so my apologies for that, but yeah, moving it up would be would be helpful. And again, just to emphasize that um inflation hits municipalities harder than it does the consumer price index. Mandy
Yeah. Um, so I I I'm I'm taking my own notes as I listen to this, marking up my own copy, and I actually moved that bullet point into the made it the third paragraph of the executive summary. So, out of the bullet points and into sort of what I consider the summary of the
current proposed budget, as well as moved the elementary budget bridge funding bullet point right below that one, so that they're a lot higher in the read. Okay. So, you'd move another way to do it. In other words, you you'd move
this up to here, right after that. Yeah. And as well as the elementary budget free cash bridging paragraph to below that, too. Yeah. And and not make them um bullets, just make them separate paragraphs. Yeah. So, before I do that,
I I just want to hear everybody's reaction. I think I'm fine with that. So, you would do move this one up also. This is the one we're talking about. Yes. Okay. Andy, I just want to for the record say that um I I appreciate the
what you're doing right now and rearranging and trying to get at some of the point that u of tying it together better. I am not going to submit the language that I read to you because I think that
uh there was good response given as to why um it was not appropriate. So I will not forward it and I'm dropping it. So it may be I mean we can look at it. So the other
place to put it is right after this paragraph the the difficult choices you know. So just moving both of those up is what I heard and we can see whether that that creates the strong
emphasis we need. Bob. Yeah, I I've been thinking about this and um about what Andy said about next year and I think maybe we need to emphasize that, you know, we were able
to the town manager was able to do to to get a balanced budget this year, but next year we can't do the same stuff. um we have to we have to do something different because um as as Bernie said, you know, there's a cost to reducing
capital and to uh using free cash. Um and you know, we we could do it this year on a one-time basis, but we can't sustain it. And we we maybe should point that out that it's not sustainable.
Um, and you know, maybe that's that's a that's a link to the discussion of of next fiscal year, but I do think we need to acknowledge that the town manager basically used creative a creative way
to to meet this year's budget. Um, but we can't do the same stuff next year. Okay. So, so Bob are you, let me just so your suggestion does that go in the executive
summary before the next year is going to be difficult. Innesota before these bullets or any place you know the you know these these strategies will not be possible I mean clearly we can freeze positions we can cut position you know
so the the the the going higher than revenues strategy can't be used again you know well yeah I'm I'm I I totally agree with
FY27 is going to be not not will be difficult likely to be it will be difficult. Um every single piece of this including the the pension projection is supposed to go back up to six to 7% rather than 2% and that's going to hit
the regional school budget and the municipal budget. So, um any I think we can take a stab um at how where to put it in this next draft, but I think we can't under emphasize
that that we're we're we're uh barely getting by this year. Yeah. I mean, we got a creative solution this year. Um and I I should have included in that that the you know the expense uh budgets were were frozen. Um and we can't you
know just we can't do that year after year after year you know because sooner or later inflation is going to over overwhelm us um and we won't be able to I mean just the the example of you know the potholes we don't have enough money
to even fill potholes um at this point so um you know we can't keep doing that that's all I I mean okay so so I think you know we'll you know I'll play with this so this is moving this whole paragraph up is the other
suggestion and before I move it up let's I just want to focus on uh is um we can change the wording the superintendent has not a verbally this assumption or if we get information
that they have or we can leave it in and should this be in the um it already says cannot be incorporated in the FY. You know, we we've made a strong statement here and I'm comfortable with with those. Is
anyone not comfortable with that? I'm not seeing any hands. So I will for now just move it up and then we can figure out, you know, word smmith it a bit if we need to.
Okay. And Mandy, you're you're keeping your own, which is great. So you can I mean Mandy, um it will be helpful to have someone help me smooth this once we get through just moving things around.
As you can see the the screen a I'll do that later. It's the screen is slow when I have everybody on Zoom. So any um do we want to go through any other parts? You know,
instead of jumping around, we can get to if we don't jump around right now, it's figure out exactly how to make the FY27 statement stronger than it is. Elicia, um thank you Kathy. Sorry everyone, I'm
a bit under the weather today. But um I think in the crest uh section of the budget um I would prefer to see some mention of the impact of the frozen positions. I'm not sure that that was made very clear in the crest summary.
Um, it does talk about the decrease of the budget, but I think it's important to understand what the impact of those two frozen crest responder positions are because I don't think um like the sentence that mentions it is with two fewer staff positions and the potential
loss of an implementation manager. If the grant is not renewed, Crest will not be able to expand service hours. And I think there is much more impact than just not being able to expand service hours. That's not um being mentioned. And I think it might be also important
to mention that uh additionally with the loss of the implementation manager, we're we're losing a significant amount of institutional memory considering that is the longest serving Crest employee um for a very young department. And I think
all of these things have a substantial impact in matter a lot more than stating our discussion about whether or not crest could be functioning differently because I don't see those as budget implications.
Um, so I would almost prefer taking out the mention of whether or not Quest should be positioned in a different department or just the fact that that discussion happened because I don't see any financial implications there in terms of how we're re working this specific budget. So, do you have a
specific I went to the expand service hours. Do you have a specific suggestion? Um, I can work on that right now, but I don't have the words nicely put together, but I can do that. Okay. So, I just put the loss of
institutional memory. So, making that sentence stronger. I mean, this clearly is a big a big impact. Um, you know, whether they're twoerson teams all the time trying to rethink how they work with the reduced staff.
Um, so Andy, yeah, I understand that the loss of Cat Newman is really extremely unfortunate. Um, but I'm not sure that we can tie it together
because she's made I assume that she's making personal choices herself as to what she wants to do with her life and career. And we can't assume that if that grant is saved
um in the final state budget process for 26 um that she would even be available to come back. So if you hire a new person for that position, you still lost the institutional memory.
uh which is for all of the reasons that Alicia has said unfortunate but we we ought to be careful as to how we state all of that. Elicia um that's fair Andy. I will keep that in mind. Um I'm just going to try to draft
up like two or three sentences really quickly and I will keep that in mind. But I do think that um while I don't know what Pat's own personal choices are, I was under the impression that if the funding remained, she would have chosen to stay and that she did not want
to leave. But I understand that also uncertainty is a reason why people leave positions. Um, and so like you said, it's can't be like we can't say for sure that if the grant was re uh renewed that she would return because of that gap and
that uncertainty. But I think that one could reasonably assume that if the town were to provide the funding for that position to be a long-term position that we wouldn't have to worry about her leaving. And so I do think it still has a financial budget implication. Um, but I will keep that in mind when I think
about what I can add to this section. to get that point across. Okay. So, can uh I'm trying to move us as long any other sections people want to jump to, but the other thing that occurred to me on this
recommendation is we find that the proposed budget is supportive of policy goals despite evidence. overall we recommend as presented. We could add a however um uh the we uh the I'm not going to word this
right but put a warning right here that the creative solutions used this year can't continue. We could put something right right in this place. However, the creative methods, you know, as you can see below FY27 is going to be much more
difficult. Some something to that a statement. So, Marie, I see your hand is up. So, I I don't know whether I'm jumping away from Chris and you wanted to continue. So, sorry. No, that I I think that's a good solution to where it can go. Um, as I was trying to figure
out where it could also go. Um um there was at the end of it it's sort of related to crest but at the end of this document there's a highlight that says save for safety. There is also the concern that crest responses to seniors
may be substituting for efforts of volunteers and need to learn from Northampton and Greenfield. Have has that been covered? Um, we didn't we we didn't do there's a reference now to Northampton, but not to
Greenfield. Um, because I didn't know enough about it. I think, you know, way last year we put Northampton and Greenfield in because we had heard very positive reports. So, I'm not sure if that's Grace. So I just tried a sentence there.
We we'll just see whether that works and then we'll still do on this. So Mandy, um, you want me to scroll away to Crest to Sorry, I was acting on. I mean just um Bernie you pointed out uh the Northampton report and one of
the things I found very interesting is when they list the staff they have a total of eight including the director of it but they're fully integrated within within the public health senior. So when they talk about who they work with their
names from a whole bunch of departments in addition to theirs and they do seem to have discharge dispatch things coming directly to them. So it was an interesting even though it's called public health model there were clear safety elements and a lot of what
they're doing is similar to what was described that Crest is doing. Um, so here is what we I don't think we mentioned Greenfield in here. Um, yeah. Um, I'm not too concerned about
Greenfield. I just tried to add something in from uh the the the paragraph right above the highlighted one regarding the volunteer part that was in that last paragraph at
the end of this document. Um, so the second sentence said, "However, there does not yet appear to be a plan to assess what may be possible for a community responder." Um and then I just added I don't know whether this is a great wording or not but then I said
comma nor whether some of these responses are in place of services that used to be provided by volunteers just to because that seemed to be the missing thing that was in that highlighted paragraph at the end of the
document the volunteer All right. That what you had in mind? Yeah. So, Elicia, um I think that's actually a good question and I'm wondering did the town of Ammerst ever have uh volunteers who
responded to these such things? Uh seniors definitely. So, one of the thing they they talked about uh was getting people to appointments, doing wellness checks, worrying about medications. There used to be a whole team of
volunteers and there's now and when we asked we asked the director about this uh the senior center there's now a whole group called Ammerst Neighbors that is explicitly doing many of those things that Crest is also reporting on doing
and I think that is at least due to the proximity of where they sit next to the senior center. you know they uh ad admirably want to be as useful as possible. Um so uh that that assisting
seniors side was intensely volunteer. However, when we heard from the senior center there are fewer volunteers today. I mean my mom volunteered there for until she was 89 or 88. So I think some of the
volunteers have aged out of volunteer volunteering. Um but but yes on that on that side that was the one Mandy that I particularly knew about in terms of um wellness checkups, rides to doctor's
appointments, uh kinds of services because we haven't had a social service department for a long time in terms of you know other kinds of um assists that weren't um weren't medical. Um Bernie and then
Andy. Yeah, I I just wanted to mention that there is a Northampton neighbors as well which is actually ogre and uh really well established and will help with a lot of things including helping seniors seniors find work. Um but I
wouldn't want to confound the work that uh say Northampton neighbors or Amoris neighbors might do with its members as opposed to the kind of interventions that we were talking about or we might be talking about
um which would require someone with a background in uh behavioralism or u or social skills uh social work uh to deal with someone who was uh reluctant confused, unable to manage a medication,
someone who's hoarding. Um there's a variety of of of challenges that come up that are just you where you simply you don't simply don't want an unskilled volunteer working with the person. No, I um I agree. That's why I thought
Northampton was interesting for what they're doing because they have the public health nurse involved in their team before so you don't have to train someone on you're taking three medications that are the wrong and the you know you're not taking them you you have you have a medically trained person
on the team as well even though she's not she's yeah and that may be an issue that even Crest shouldn't handle or couldn't handle but you know my favorite notion of this is it costs over $100,000 a year to have someone in a nursing
home. Oh yeah. And 25% of the elders, seniors in nursing homes are there because they can't manage the medication. So it makes really good sense to me to have a person who can help people manage the medication and continue to live independently than it
is to let that person deteriorate to the point where they have to be admitted to a nursing home because they they they can't manage the medication. The math is looks real good to me, but um I'm not driving the bus. So um I'll just make one comment out of my
former life that um in New York they had some home visits out of a home visiting part of their community services. And the role of that person was to open the medicine cabinet and take a picture of what was on the shelves and send it to
the doctor to say, "Is this person supposed to be on these?" Because people accumulated medicines and kept taking them even so that nobody knew that they had 20 medicine bottles and they were due to, you know, so some of that was uh
too many doctors when you're older and they're each prescribing and no one is cross-checking. Yeah. Yeah. And in the case of my godmother, um, too many doctors prescribing and too avail too much availability of over-the-counter medication. Yeah. Um, so, you know,
thanks to a very helpful pharmacist from CVS, we were able to stop her magical bruising, which none of the doctors could do. Um, but so Mandy, Andy, and Alicia, and Alicia, I I think your hand has stayed up, but maybe um it went up
again. Um, others can go. Mine's on a different topic. Okay. So, Alicia or Andy on staying on Crest before we go to a new topic. I I I'll uh just say one Ed and that is
that uh Meals on Wheels has uh changed over time and those uh deliveries were uh part of what was going on within the senior center and how senior center
social worker staff was able to monitor what was happening with individual elders who were homebound. Right. So, that's not happening anymore, right, Elicia? Um, yes. Sorry, just a quick uh
followup to my earlier question about um volunteers. Um I think while I do still think it's something that might be important to look at and I apologize because I think I missed the presentation from the public health department. um that I'm not sure if we're looking at
the volume because I'm not sure if just volunteers would make up for the volume of the response calls. And I think it's also important to consider how many of those calls were in fact going to the police. Um because they were when we uh looked at the police calls, there was a
significant number of assist citizen calls. Um, so I think that that can still even though technically it is uh like response to senior citizen needs, it is a diversion of police calls still because those calls were going to the
police. So So Alicia, are you reacting you think that that clause should not be added at all? No, not necessarily. I think it's an important thing for us to look at and to consider, but I'm just not sure it paints the full picture. And I think that if we're going to look at that, we
need to also be looking into um a couple of those things that I just mentioned, which includes like the volume of uh these instances and how many of them were in fact being answered uh by the police before.
So I think you know this leads us just everyone on this rewrite um that Bob put in the whole not rewrite an additional is that we think there should be a fullblown assessment, you know, to um including meeting, you know, so that it
is a it's not just a, you know, it's it's more than just acknowledging what just happened, but really trying to think about what the future holds. So, I think you've expressed that, Bob, in this that we're asking and this is one of the
recommendations to the town manager that this not just sit, you know, that but we but we have a discussion about it. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I tried to put in that we shouldn't base it on what, you know, crust has been accomplish accomplished
uh so far because we haven't fully funded them. So, I think we need to we need to look at you know what they can do or what they could do if they had more more staff and more funding. Well, and you know, just a point on the fully
funded, they've been running four vacancies. you know, you know, we've hired we've hired and lost, you know, over time. No, no, no, no. I I understand. I understand. They they're they're suffering from what all of the the the public safety uh departments are
suffering from not being able to recruit easily and losing people uh to other jobs. So, so I I think this paragraph does a good job. And then Alicia was going to add some sentences on the twoerson cut is more than just hours,
you know. That's fine. Yeah, I think I think she should. Elicia, sorry, quick response and then um I just think that Crest is actually suffering from people being hired into a department thinking that they're going to have one desri job job description and then not being able to do the job
that they wanted to do. I don't think it's necessarily the same as the police or the fire because we did have a number of people people that I actually know who rep who um applied to be responders. And I think a lot of the disappointment is the inability to take calls from
dispatch which is what they think their job is going to be. And so I think you know again like Bob just said we can't really assess Crest adequately because we haven't ever fully staffed and fully resourced and funded them to be able to know what their capacity is. But I would
assume that uh we might have better job retention if folks were actually doing the job they think they signed up to do. Um but aside from that, I have written something up that I think could be included in that section. Kathy, is it okay if I send it to your email or should I send it to Bob's email? You can
send it to me. Okay, I will send that. I'm incorporating edits and so the final version will have that in it. Andy, um I was trying that as not I eventually I want to get to some of this uh
deletions that Mandy made to public safety as to why I think that she went overboard even though I appreciate very much the work that she did. U so I want to get back to that.
Um, but I don't want to interrupt the discussion of press. So, are you just anchor me where I should go? Are we going to the executive summary or the No, we're I these are in the substantive section on Okay. So, this is all Bob Bob
took this on. Just so you know, this is Bob on public safety. Uh, and then Mandy Mandy cut out what? No, I just I just added a couple of sent couple of paragraphs, one on press and one on Mandy's edit took out all the
detail on naming exactly what staff were in each of the two departments, Andy, because we had actually uh make a statement that the we don't do that for any department actually, and we'd made a statement that we weren't going to go to that level of
detail. So that the edit that you saw in the track edit had a deletion of um how many sergeants on call people etc in police and the same deletions for is that what you're referring to that edit
uh those aren't the most significant ones that I was concerned about. Um, there was one that had to do with the uh information that I had obtained from Holly Drake and from uh and actually the
chief said the same thing in in her in in an email that um they're getting all of this additional pressure on use of overtime to try and
make shifts and the budget for overtime is the same as it was the year before. I made the I pointed out that the budget for overtime was remaining the same and I thought that that was an important fact to include
given the fact that u we're putting pressure on um our existing employees to do more overtime just to make sure that we have adequate shift coverage. So the
deletion of that part was uh something that I was concerned about in particular. The other one that I'll just mention is is that I put in a couple of sentences just to acknowledge that the
police chief overseas communications and um animal welfare, they are included in the budget book and in the budget. uh but we don't acknowledge them anywhere else within.
So I I they were just a couple of sentences in order to make sure that at least there was an acknowledgment that we have animal welfare and dispatch funded. So, just um I'll go back and look what was cut unless you just want
to uh uh uh and and put back in because I thought we had and maybe we did something else that they that their uh the expense budget has been they've already exhausted it by the time they hit to the third quarter, but that may
be in fire. So, I don't think we meant to cut that out. Um so, I I mean I have I have the track change version. So, if you I just we can put those back in. Yeah, cuz I'm just scanning it and it does not seem to be here.
Um, it is in the version you said last night. It says track changes and what was deleted. Yeah. No, I will. I'll just put it back in. Um Melissa, so I just wanted to say that um overtime
um uniform allowance um shift differential all those lines are treated the same as the operating expense lines in the budget. So when we do the increases for personnel
um we in all departments I guess is my point in all departments have this the same problem. It it's not just public safety. So, I just wanted to say that and you had talked about maybe putting in a comment um about the operating
expenses like utilities, repair to vehicles, those kind of things as that they had been flat. And even though we increase the contractual amount, we're only looking at base salaries which does not which obviously if my hourly rate
goes up um my overtime rate goes up and we're not increasing that line. So this is another place where we are offsetting what we know to be true increasing expenses
um with the vacancies that we know we have and as we shrink the overall vacancies um there's less room to do that maneuvering. So, I just wanted to say I know that you're getting into the detail of these departments, but it's true in
DPW, it's true in um almost any any department that has overtime or even just things like the telephone allowances. Some departments, you know, like the DPWs required to use their cell phones so that they're
accessible, you know, the radios, you know, all of these things where there are these sort of fixed costs associated with personnel. those lines are not being um increased. We're only increasing their um regular salary lines in accordance with the contract. So,
there are all these costs that are sort of just being level funded and it's not a true reflection of the total costs of those employees and we've been managing that with with um
vacancies. Yeah, we we'll double check that we've stated it strong enough in the beginning to be there's a beginning statement that's crosscutting. So I did put for the municipal budget all the expense budgets were were frozen and the language about but and Andy will put it
back in in police because we certainly also heard it in DPW same thing. I mean that you know Guilford was able for those who missed that session, Guilford was able to get some relief by the capital budget now has traffic lights
and um street lamps in as a capital allowance. Uh so some of some of what was has to happen is is provided in a capital budget, but there's not very much of that going on. Bob. Yeah. In in
um in response to what Andy's comment was, I think I said in the the paragraph I I wrote that um we're forced to rely on, you know, both both the police and the fire forced to rely on overtime and
it's often forced. Now I did not say that which we could add uh that you know overtime you know the the the the funding for overtime and other expenses is not is is level funded that's not increasing over time or something. I
mean if you want to add something like that Andy in there but I did I did try to discuss the issue of overtime here. Yeah. So we'll just Bob we'll figure out so Andy will flag the sentences and it
either goes I'm just waving around at the very beginning because it's both both police and fire the expense but this is true for their expense budget. So it's an overarching on the the expense budget not just the staffing. Y
um and and then we can I can stop at, you know, I can make a second paragraph out of this, but it's really striking when you look across that and your eyes don't see it otherwise that there's no increases
there, the dollar in the dollars from FY25. Okay. Okay, Mandy. Um, I'm gonna obviously send you another markedup copy, but in reading the enterprise fund section, we have a
separate memo for water and sewer rates. And so I was thinking that maybe the two the four paragraphs regarding water and sewer fund here could just be moved into that memo. um since that one's a
more specific memo and then just reference that memo here. Um otherwise we're sort of repeating things in two different memos. Um Mandy, are you are you talking about those those first four paragraphs on the water and sewer fund?
Yeah. So the let me just can I repeat back to you. Are you suggesting move all of those into our memo or water and sewer rights? Yes. in the and um and not have them here at all.
Correct. Just reference that memo. Okay. Like we did for the regional school budget memo. Okay. Does um I don't know whether people had a chance to look at I it was as short as possible the one I sent to
you last night on water to race. Yet it yet it repeats a lot of the the two are very similar. Um, are are people okay with doing that? Bernie, you you drafted it. Yeah. You know, so I can just say see see our memo on, you know, see our
recommendation on water and solar rates. There's there's no pride of authorship in the, you know, wherever it if if it fits better in the memo, then that's fine. Okay. And then I noticed in Can I just
say one thing? I'm not always sure that people read both documents. So the only the only it's duplicative for us who are staring at them. It's not duplicative if people are reading through this memo um
that these enterprise funds there's more coming. So if so that's the only um that's the only reason we might think twice about just eliminating from here because it doesn't it adds about about a half a page to
what is already a long document. So, I do think it I'm not saying I'm also agreeing that to the extent we didn't already say it in the water and sewer memo, you know, rates, I would put it there, you know, if if but making that a
longer memo. So, I think that memo is coming out before this one, which means more likely to be read than this one. Yeah. I I just I I just I don't know what the public reads and what is read a year from now
is what I'm saying. You know, this is a document that lives on behi beyond our individual reports. But I'm I'm fine with whatever people want to do basically on this. But I do agree that
anything meaty that we said here should be in the other and I didn't cross reference that. And then in you know this is at my count it's like 27 26 pages. It's really long. Um
frankly I'm not sure our counselors will read the full 26 pages at all. Um, but I the conservation and development and community services sections are the only sections that have sort of these summaries of recent
accomplishments. Um, so I they're appreciated, but I would get rid of those paragraphs. Um, they're not in any of the other sections of this memo, and they're really easy to find in the budget book. Um, if someone really want
you don't have to dig hard to see each of the recent accomplishments, their bullet points in the budget book and all. And I don't know how many pages it will save, but I feel like the closer we are to 20 pages, the more likely this might get read.
So, um, the drafters of this section, what is your reaction to that? Bob, it's Bob and Tom. I don't know. I'm okay with with removing these. Um, that's what's we've we've had that in the previous documents. Um, and you
know, that's why I included them. But you know what I could what what I could do um with a quick edit is the budget book summarizes up above. The budget book summarizes accomplishments in all of these departments.
you know, just one sentence at the very beginning, right? I think that's a great way to do it. It's uniform in the in the deck and I think we just refer people there. Some of these though, I mean, I you know, I
think the questions that we asked of the department leads sometimes elicited more information than what we include in the budget book. Uh, so that that's the only reason that I would I mean I'm I'm
looking at what um the health director said about the sharps program and I don't I don't think it all that detail is is in the the the budget book. So I actually left the sharps program part of the recent accomplishments in in my write up
because of that method. Um, I just rewarded it but left that it's free at the health department and all of that cuz Yeah, it did. Um, I was more concerned with just the listing essentially of rewriting the bullet points. No, no, that's fine. That's fine. Okay. So, so we'll we'll just say
that's going to happen and then we'll take a look at removing certainly we will get to a shorter document if we move the four paragraphs on enterprise funds and we remove this piece. [Music] Um, you know, I think, you know, and
Mandy, I agree that I don't think people start at page one and go already to the end, but they probably will jump to the section they're most interested in. So, and and we have some meaty sections here. So, you you you'll probably get a
revised draft of this tomorrow. Um, tomorrow's Friday, right? And we meet again on Tuesday. I'm just going way up. I'm scrolling all the way up to the top because if possible, I'd like to And Andy, were you going to put some
sentences to make FY27 is going to be a mess or is going to be bad or whatever we put there to make to make it stronger than what we've got. And feel free to just copy and paste out of here and then shrink it, you know, if some of what we
said is too soft. So, what I would like to do is see whether we're in agreement on the um Melissa will be able to give us the financial order numbers I think next week. Are we in agreement
on these motions? And if so, are we ready to take a vote today? Yes, Mandy. There's actually I think one other motion maybe Melissa can tell us. Do we need to specifically vote to
create a new revolving fund? Um, yes, we do need to vote to create a new revolving fund because it's under a different um a different mass general law than the previous one. So, we have to we have to create it under that. I'm pretty sure
that's what we we talked about. Okay. So, I'll figure out what that is. I'm just putting a placeholder there. Yeah, might find out if that's going to be in order.
Yeah, we'll need the wording for that before we vote on that one. Yeah, I pretty sure I drafted that somewhere. I'll find it and um forward it to you. I'll check in with Holly on the make sure that I get all the order numbers
and um and the language for that vote, but um I'm pretty sure we had a draft of that a few weeks ago. So, I'll just um double check with her, make sure I'm correct on that. So, I'm looking for any my Mel Melissa on the um borrowing to fund
capital projects. I know the one is the radio system. So I I you know again you you you and your team will give us whatever is the borrowing for capital. I think that was the big one. Um yeah, we haven't given you that. Okay. No, if if
you gave it to us, it might be in an earlier packet when I it might be in today's packet. I will say I didn't look at today's I mean there's nothing new in today's packet. Um, so I I will um you know, and you may have put them at
one point in the council P. I did I have all these TKs because I didn't know what the number, you know, other than it said. 26. I didn't know what they were. Um, and so this was copied over from last year that I knew we had these.
Yeah. So, um, do are people ready to vote on these today or do they want to wait for next week? Mandy, I would like to wait to see if we hear from the superintendent of schools.
Okay, so that so that affects motion number one. What about motion number two and motion number three? Oh, I'm fine with voting on those. Okay.
And we have we have financial order numbers. We just haven't seen the actual orders. Okay. So, the last page of the budget book has the numbers on that on. Oh, okay. The last page. Talk about reading to the end. I like that. You got to go
all the way to the end. Page 296. No. No. Yeah. Ah, there they are. Yep. Okay. So, I can put the budget numbers in. Thank you for showing me where to look. I didn't get to that
page. So, the just so everyone knows financial the very first one is the um one-time funding one where we had a discussion on is this a full endorsement but only if you know the only if language. So that
uh to the extent you can Melissa impress on Sean uh Shannon that we need to hear back because I don't know you know uh I will say uh I was surprised on Tuesday as
Mandy brought this up the council uh voted on going to a target of five um and Paul found a creative way to do it. I personally will not go back on that because it was something we talked about
publicly and I voted for that. So I would have difficulty uh not not approving this making sure that we make one time under bold. But that's that's going to be the issue next week if we don't have any confirmation
or affirmation they understand it's one time and that it won't be on the base if we don't have it in writing. I think what Mandy had proposed was to pull it out and say um unless we get it, you don't you don't get this money. You know, it was some some kind of wording
that changed this motion because otherwise there that was the only thing that you were raising. Correct, Mandy? Yeah. Yeah. So, so I just say that I I deleted that part of my communication with Shannon that that
this was a threat to be more collaborative with her. So, um I No, and I'm just Yeah, we'll, as I said, I'm not sure where the the
majority we would vote on this if we want to go beyond the statement that's here, whether or not depending on what we do or do not hear back from them. Melissa, that that it was the concept was that we could potentially do that,
but I'm not sure we had um a majority of the finance committee agreeing with that. So, I'm not we haven't voted on that is the other way I would. Yeah. So, I will um I'll try and I I it was just too late for me to call her
when I got to it yesterday. I'll try and call her this afternoon and just see if we can touch base and let her know that there is an expectation that um we um reply to the request. Um that's
great. And by by Tuesday and Tuesday morning Tuesday's meeting is in the afternoon, correct? Yeah, Tuesday is 2 o'clock. So, so that will be um that will be potentially the one we will have to discuss further on whether it's this
wording or a different kind of wording. Um Mandy um just one other thing you had sent a table around oh regarding um what was it basically per pupil costs is reported by DESIE um for in a variety of
areas um but this committee hasn't discussed whether we want to include that in the finance report or not. Did did people get a chance to see that? If not I can pull it up on the screen or Mandy can pull it up. everyone got a chance to see
it. I mean, it's I actually Mandy did some extra work because I asked to see what the trends were in per pupil, you know, how we compared um not the trends. So, we just have the most recent DESIE numbers for and that was
FY23. And as you those of you who looked at the table, the table picks communities that have regional high schools, so 7 to 12, then picks communities that have elementary schools, and then does a a K through 12
by just merging our two schools, taking total dollars and dividing it by people to give us what the average is to be able to show that we are higher. Um so the question one thought was
leaving the elementary school write up the way it is and then saying the appendix table shows how we compare without that that we pay more per student and just leave it at that kind of statement. But I thought that
information has been absent from our discussions. So the question was do people want to include the table um or not? Um and you know the communities the difficulty Mandy can describe the difficulty but you don't want to pick a
Boston which has millions of people and you don't want to pick a place that has very few people. Um Mandy go ahead. Yes. So here's what I did. Um, I started with well I there there's some there's some columns that aren't there that I also
started with. There's some department of I don't know some some do tables that that show spending in municipalities based on functional area including total municipal spending. So I started somewhere with that with looking at
towns and municipalities that had similar total spending to us. So somewhere in for FY23 I I think given some of it it's in the 80 to 85 million range. um somewhere in there um and pulled those towns initially and then on
the columns that are there the the total in district spending and the total spending for education I again sorted for element you know sorted combined our elementary and region and found towns
that had similar amounts of spending put them into a spreadsheet and then I did the same with similar numbers pupils. So, so enrollment size, put them into a spreadsheet. Um, then I had hunted out schools that were specifically 7 to 12
so I could compare size or spending to 7 to 12 schools since we have that. And I did the same with K6 um or preK6. Um, and then I deleted Cape schools. Um, I deleted all the vocational schools because they do completely different
programming than a typical K6 school. Um, so their their funding is completely different and not really comparable. Um, and then I started looking at given all of that, where were the outliers because I still had like 60 districts, which is
too long for a chart. Um so I started deleting um trying to find those that were closest to us in some of those areas whether it mostly with number of students um trying to keep it close to our number of students because that's to
me where the comparison is most apt who's what what's the cost to educate our typical number of students. I then added in um some of the more local districts that don't have the same number of students that didn't make that list at all because there's always a
question of well what are people what are districts in our area spending um even if they aren't truly comparable in terms of size. So those got added back in at that point too. Um, I did my best when doing all of those deletions to not
look at the two columns that were per pupil cost. Um, so that it would not be, oh, I'm deleting this because it's higher than Ammeris or something. I did my best to ignore those columns. And then after I did all these sorts by
other ways and said, okay, this is down to like 20. This is this is as far as I'm going to take it. I then sorted by per pupil costs and that's what ended up. It was the last sword I did. So if if people want to see it on the screen, I can or I can have Mandy share
it. Um so the question is to include it or not. Um and I think the explanation you gave we include it can have a few sentence on top. How did we come up with what people might see as an odd mix of towns and cities? Bernie.
Um, it's a it's a a lot of work for to to produce a summary of this. Uh, you know, I appreciate all the effort that went into it and I think we should include it. What I would like to have is a simple sentence or two saying that of
the what is it 260 school systems in Massachusetts um the elementary school ranks I think I haven't checked this in a while but I don't think it's changed uh the elementary school ranks 10th in terms of
its overall uh cost per per pupil and the um regional school ranks I memory serves 22nd overall. So, so just to to to give people a notion of where in the
university schools um they land those our two school systems land. So, is if is there a consensus does anyone let's do it the other way. Does anyone object to including the table? And Mandy went on and I I just, you
know, I thought keeping it simple made sense. As she said, there were some other table columns that I just hid in the one I sent to you. Um, they were hidden, but the she started to also pull down number of kids labeled disabled. I
mean, we can get that level of detail, but it makes it so complicated to be looking at. It's really difficult. Bob. Yeah, I I don't object to including this, but I just want to warn people that this is going to be viewed by the
schools as an attack. And um you know, we've already got some uh negative comments from the school committee um about the finance committee. Um, and you know, it is what it is, but I I you
know, I I just want to make people cognizant of that issue. Um, so as I say, I don't object to including it. Um, Andy, and I guess the flip is if you
don't object, you advise. Um but Andy yeah um I guess I agree with what Bob just said that I don't object to having it in and I but it is going to be controversial.
There are many measures of what we're doing in spending in um Ammerst and um why what it should be looked at and there was reflecting back on the uh most
recent MMA uh annual meeting which is now called connect 351 and a conversation I had with John Mangano at that conference and um Sean's
view of it is is that u the dollars per pupil is not the best measure of showing why Ammerst really is doing a lot for um schools. and he talked about
um the number that is the uh net school spending um as a percentage of what is uh required under the chapter 70 formula
and there's a whole different set of measures that goes in that that shows that um we we're we're spending um we're in the high group of schools that are spending above what is the
required minimum um local contribution and uh so that there are it's just a recognition that there are many measures that are out there and this is just one of them. Tom,
um I uh I appreciate what you just shared, Andy, and I know it's it is a complicated formula. I'd like to include that metric. Um I feel like we are making a point to um with the with
the not sustainable comment to give a a reality check which I think is is is a hopeful step to set up the conversation that will occur next year about the 27 budget when we've said we did we did
some creative things this year can't can't do them every year uh can't do them next year um and I feel like this is an where that's true. I agree with Bob's caution about um potentially
prompting antagonism uh or maybe defensiveness from the schools. But I actually don't think that leaving that metric out is going to reduce the, you know, the level of um the contentious
discussion that we're going to have next year around that we have every year. and we'll have it next year. Um, I think it's irrelevant I think it is a relevant metric and so that I'd love to see it in Mandy.
So I can add columns for actual net school spending as percentage of required and then there's a public actual net school spending as percentage of foundation. So there's a a it's just which one both or one. Um, we
have that data. Um, I don't know. Mine's 2022, so I might be able to pull up 2023 if I can find the foundation as net school spending. I think I can probably find 2023s, but if not, 2022s is already on my computer. Um, so it's easy to add those percentages in if we would like
those columns in. I can add the percentage of high needs in if we want those columns in or any of the split outs of what high needs go what splits go into percentage of high needs. I've got those too. Um but as Kathy said it
gets very busy the more columns we add. So the question is which columns would we want? You know the the percent um you see that off also in the charter formula that Amoris is really high above the foundation budget. That's what you're talking about, Andy, right? You know,
the the one that's the the the minimum required. So, that one goes with the dollars more than the composition of kids does. Um, you know, I mean, the composition of kids, you know, as soon as you get down to disabled or special
needs, it's what level of severity do they have? So, a count alone doesn't help you very much. um uh or that's that is Kathy's opinion having poured over these numbers and I did you
know compare us to Northampton and we are so similar on the special needs kids including you know in the classroom all the time usually or rarely and sent out and and even in circuit breakers we're
we're a match on how many circuit breakers kids we have between our two system the highest cost kids. So it's not just that but Bernie so I guess it's the question of we could add maybe one more column and then uh take the heat
for having even looked at this but I will say two years ago in finance one of the questions is why are we $5,000 above the average in other places and we never got a very good answer to it. We just kept
going. Uh Bernie, well long ago far away Andre Sharma and I tried to look at why are we so expensive and um came away frustrated. Uh two years ago I haven't looked at stuff in the last year or so
but um when last I looked uh we were at or below the state averages in every category except special needs. And in any of those categories, there's always a degree of
difficulty, you know. So, so uh and if we're if we're close to Northampton or any other school system that has uh I think our our enrollment was 30%. Seems very high to me, but um our
enrollment was 30%. And u you know if we looked at other schools that had 30% enrollment especially to compare the costs we're still not going to get a good number because it it's just too there's too many variables there. I would suggest adding the u uh a t a
column that shows where we are over how far we are over required uh net school spending. let it go at that because that's I mean Sean's right that's a probably more um accurate number but trying to get
into um you know English language learners um any other kind of categories that Desa uses we're at or below the state averages so um I don't think any of those are
factors that okay so so let us try in the next draft In my opinion, it should be an an appendix. It won't be a featured thing. And the beginning of the education section said just, you know, we were interested and we compiled the
table. You'll see it in appendix. Now, there's no no other appendix. So whatever it is um and everyone knowing that that's uh going to uh it's going to as what did Bob say
will be will won't not we not be viewed positively would be and so we can see what we think about it. Um, so if there any I'm just conscious of time. It's 10:37. So we we were scheduled to go
till 11. Um, the I also, you know, so you're going to get a re revised version of what you saw today. And I will send today's clean copy to Melissa so she can post. So should anyone want to see what we've been looking at, which we haven't
posted yet. And I'll post the table Melissa also. And so then next week we'll have a version where Andy is going to take a stab at some stronger sentences for FY27. Um you know that is going to be
not just tough, it's going to be really hard and we will go back in to the making a bigger deal about the frozen expense lines supply and putting that language back into police and if it's missing from fire, put it in there as
well. Andy, so you can send me whatever you thought was deleted that needs to be back in. And if you send that um by tomorrow, then uh the draft that I'll send back to you uh tomorrow will be a
draft reflecting all of this. So you'll have the weekend to be looking at it knowing that there are these remaining issues. You know, we'll take a stab at the few press sentences as well. You know, we talked about pulling a few of the sentences out of the Bob piece to
have Crest have something said about it. Does does that provote? And then so I did ask whether we're ready to vote on the other motions. If we are, um, I would entertain a motion. And if
you want to do all of that on Tuesday, we can wait. I'm seeing silence. I go ahead. I mean, I'll put the numbers in and we can vote on them as a package next week if that makes it easier. Uh Bob and Andy.
Yeah, I I think we should wait. I I'd like to see the actual motions and the actual numbers. Okay. Just so we're, you know, I I I hate to vote on anything that's vague. Okay. And then Melissa can get Melissa can get the financial order
in our packet. So, we're actually looking at one when we're doing this rather than going to the last page of the budget book for the right number. Andy, uh just two things on where we are with I will do something on next uh year's
budget uh projections and that we need to be prepared for tough decisions. Um, and the other piece as far as u the changes to the u uh public safety section, I think that what the m major
one that I had expressed concern about we were going to try and capture in the executive summary to cover all departments. Um and that was uh that we rely on overtime, but we're not uh we
have questions as to whether u budgets are going to be sufficient to cover the overtime expenses. We rely on that to uh provide essential services and not make it specific to public safety but cover
all departments. Okay. So, um I will take a look at whatever we cut out of your original draft because I think um that was specifically referenced. Gil Guilford also referenced it in DPO, but yes, we'll make sure we do that
adequately in the executive summary. All right. In the remaining minutes, I don't know whether anyone had a chance to read the draft uh the draft of our report approving the water and sewer rates. Mandy caught typos um
including just a wrong word completely toward the end and a missing word. And the suggestion today was anything we've said in this report that we didn't say in that, make sure it's in it and potentially cut that discussion. So, um,
I told Lynn, this goes before this needs to be sent into the council. I told Lynn she'd have it by Friday morning. So, if anyone has any other edits or if you want to see it revised. If not, if you all thought it was fine, just let me
know. Just let me know by email. Um, you know, I I try to send things in so I at least know that people had a chance to say, "Look, Bernie Bernie will often say, "Looks good." So that's all I need to you know that or or but people catch like so the
water and sewer rates um and they already have just so you know the council in the original propose from the manager has lengthy motions that go with these rates and then has a whole piece on where the regulations need to change.
So we've just referred to the set Andy. Yeah. Uh, I'm going to send this to you, Kathy, and then we can discuss at a later date. I did a little bit of um editing on a track change using track
change and most of it is the only thing that was added in significance was one sentence with or two sentences or so that I'll just read um just to give that was to give some more
context and they were users of the water and sewer systems benefited from low rates In recent years, those rates were low because the town was not addressing maintenance issues promptly. The consequence is the need for a large
increase in July 1, 2026. That's fine. If you send it, I'll accept it. I accept I accepted all of Mandy's. So consider when you get it to me, I will just incorporate those. I I'll just send you what I did and you'll you'll
make your own judgments. I trustee of course. I almost forgot. So I'm not sure whether the trust was we we had that a while ago. I didn't forget. I just kept forgetting to do it. So I think
um are there any further closing comments? And I I I I think this has been a terrific discussion personally and thank you all for the attention to detail and the attention to Ammerst. Yeah. Bob, I just
have a question about whether we need to approve uh or indicate that we support the the the sewer rates and the the water rates before the next council meeting. the the memo says we um recommend that
the council approve them. That's what the that's what the report Okay. So So we don't need to take a vote on that. We we did take we actually did take a vote. Okay. when when we were doing we we sandwiched it into the bigger discussion
with uh DPW and Enterprise and then we decided while we were at it we would take a vote and it we the motion passed unanimously to approve to recommend the water rates and and I've got the date of the meeting in the me in our report to
the council. So we did we did officially vote on that. Okay. I I just wanted to make sure that we've covered what we Tom just a procedural question. Is there anything we would have done differently today uh if Paul had been able to join us that would require followup or can we
just proceed and he'll uh catch up with the reading? Um procedurally I don't think so. You know, typically he's a receiver of this report. Um, and because Melissa's here, she's put the additional information in.
Um, but I will, he hasn't seen our draft. So, when I I'm going to send the clean draft in, you know, that we worked up today. So, it will be there as well as the Excel table. Um, and we don't yet have the revised draft version three to
post, but um, I told him I would send the draft after today so he can see see what we've said. Um, and and Melissa will Melissa will convey that, you know, the only question actually in terms of the budget, the
question is how strong we want to word the 1% for the schools as a bridge. That's the It's not a question of what else was proposed to us. Um Um Bernie Kathy, can I just ask a clarifying question? Do you want me to post this draft in today's meeting packet or
Tuesday's meeting packet? Um today's uh clean version. So I I'm going to send you the clean version because I removed a couple of the comments that I that had already been addressed. I'll send it to you right after we close this meeting. And then the the markup that we started
to do, we didn't finish doing. So, you'll get that um once once we get it done, you know, and that will be for Tuesday's meeting. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, there's an Excel table to put
in today's packet that everyone saw and a clean version of last week's uh version. Um Bernie, just to to note that the the end is nigh. We're almost closed this out and I I think we can't let this this session
go without again thanks to Melissa and I know Holl's been working in there and uh uh to Melissa and to Holly and our finance staff uh for uh for putting up with us and putting up with Paul and moving this uh moving this
along u sometimes painfully but and just a lot of a lot of good work has been done and U there's a lot of things a lot of things a few things left to do. So we're we're getting there and thank you all
um um my colleagues and staff for uh Oh absolutely and and I actually know the pain it's caused internally because I I can hear it in people's voices to have to freeze all these expense budget lines. you know, knowing what what's
going on within departments to uh count pennies, juggle um and figure out how to how to bring things home under what is uh what are super type budgets and we have not been appreciative enough of that or emphasized it enough of it in
the past. So, um, you all are in the midst of it. And Holly, you know, as always, you know, keeping track of all of this, I just once again, I looked at the regional school budget and a few of the change lines just don't match the numbers. And yours are yours are really
good. If I divide the two numbers, I get the same percent. So, it's it's it's terrific to be able to have that kind of um staff support. So, thank you both. Not to mention the speed at which you had to produce this. So we without um
any more glowing comments of our staff um which are shared by all of us um I make a motion to adjourn. Second and we will put it to a vote. Bob I Kathy say yes. Mandy hi. Andy hi.
Bernie yes. Tom yes. Elisha. Yeah. And Elisha, you said you would send me a few sentences as well, so I did. I meant to I sent it to you. Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you everyone and have a great weekend.
Bye.