correct. >> Um, hi. Uh, thank you Athena um for opening us up. Uh, we have no attendees and seven participants including Athena. I
do not have any announcements besides the fact that this is our last meeting and we will be meeting with the town council on the 5th at 6:30 both in person and on Zoom and again on the 12th at 6:30 both in person and on Zoom. Um >> wait, could you say that second thing
again, Julian? The 12th. >> Uh the 12th. Um Monday the 12th at 6:30. Um and you can join in person or on Zoom. >> Can we be Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Can we be in person for both of those? >> Yes.
>> Or but are you going to explain what's happening on the 6th so we know whether it's worth coming? >> Fifth. >> Fifth. >> So I'll go over it again. On the 5th we will be meeting with the town council at 6:30 p.m. They will have us on their
agenda. We will attend. You can attend in person. You can attend on Zoom. They will call on us. It'll be posted as a joint meeting. We will all show up and have a discussion with them and they will um it will basically be their first
reading of it, if you will. That we'll have some time to answer questions, etc. Um, and then on the 12th, Monday the 12th at 6:30, they'll have us on their agenda again to have a more in-depth discussion with a possible referral to a
council committee to deal with our recommendations. Um, and that council committee will take up what they want to do with the recommendation, so on and so forth. Um and that will
happen on the 12th. We are also requested to be at that meeting. You can join in person or on Zoom and answer questions from the council, discuss it as a council. Both will be poed as a joint meeting. >> Great. That was my question. Thank you.
Um, so I um am going to call us to order officially now that I've made all my announcements. Um, Erica >> here. >> Andy >> here. >> Raphael
>> here. >> Bernie >> here. >> Myself, I'm here. Meg >> here. >> Great. Um, so we have gone through announcements. I am going to make a motion that we approve the November 13th
minutes. I have a second. >> Have people seen them? Good. >> Um, great >> to approve that. Meg >> hoping I'm saying yes. >> No. Yes. Okay. Per voting. Yep. Myself. I'm an I. Bernie. >> Yes.
>> Raphael. >> Yes. >> Andy. >> Yes. >> And Erica. >> I haven't seen them, so I'll abstain. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, so those are approved. Uh, Ken's December 4th minutes. Uh, can we I'll make the motion
to approve those. >> Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Um, I'll vote the opposite way. Erica, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Raphael, >> yes. >> Bernie, >> yes. >> Myself, I'm an I. Meg. Uh,
>> stay because I haven't read them yet. Okay. Um, and then I believe Raphael, you sent me the December 18th minutes. >> I did. >> Um, and per our previous vote, I will
approve those as chair, I've approved them. I read them over. They looked good. Um, so I'm just informing the committee that I'll approve those as chair. And that our minute taker for tonight is Erica. >> Is that all right? >> Sure.
>> Okay. um just send them to me and I will read them over, send you any edits and approve them and those minutes will get sent to Athena shortly for posting. I'll probably send all of them once Erica you get the minutes to me just send them off
to Athena as sort of the final package. Um I see no members of the audience. If anyone joins towards the end of the meeting, I'll allow another bit of public comment. Um, so just jumping right in, I first wanted
to say thank you to Andy for compiling all the feedback we've received. That was looked like a massive document. Um, >> really, >> so I appreciate that. Um, and then the only other thing is uh I just want to
first move us through our amendments and then vote on the final report. So, I'm thinking we'll bring forward Erica has some amendments. I have some amendments. Raphael has some amendments. Um, Meg,
did you end up making amendments or not? >> I I gave a comment to Erica about not so much a specific edit, but a process for I never mind. I'm did what I said I would do. I'm going to look at my note to
remember. >> Okay. Um, so I guess we'll start since Erica, your edits were most substantial. Do you want to um discuss those and we can vote whether to approve those or not and screen share them and then I'll move
to Raphael, myself um and then I'll open it up to Meg, Andy, and Bernie for any final uh on the-fly amendments before we vote to approve the final report. Okay. Um,
so I can put up my my original um document and then we can talk through. I think Julian you sent >> I did >> and then Raphael had some which I didn't get to review yet but um
just trying to get to a screen share. Hang on. Great. >> And Meg, I'm thinking you have the preamble document. We'll also vote to approve that. I know it's in opposite order of the agenda, but I just figure it's better to approve what's going in the final report before we vote on the
final report. >> Did we have the preamble document in the packet today? >> Yeah, I didn't see it. I didn't see anything in the packet today. Now, there there's a lot of I mean, we saw what you sent, but it wasn't the preamble wasn't part of that.
>> Yeah, but I'm on the town website and the only thing in the packet is the agenda. So, >> Right. >> Yeah. I I didn't have a chance to post, but I will get those posted. I thought every everybody had seen everything in email, but I'll post. >> Don't worry about it. We probably did see I'm not concerned.
>> I thought I sent the preamble to Erica to do some edits. Is that right, Erica? >> Um, I think you sent it several people. >> I think you sent it to everybody. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you rewrote some. I thought
the final version had a combination of people's input. >> I did not edit on the preamble. >> Okay. >> Should I take this down? >> No, go ahead with this. Let's do this first. >> Okay. Um,
so this this is a suggestion for the section that we were formally calling the addendum only. This has nothing to do with the rest of the proceeding report. Um, and it's just for the two
kind of lists of bulleted items that were that that everyone has already had already seen and discussed at length. Um, and the idea here was just to put a little bit of um, actionable language behind some of these items. And
so the proposal here is to add some language to section A and section B um, to try to encourage council to take a specific action as opposed to just sort of consider them in their response, which is how it was written before. Not
every item in section A um is able to um is kind of conducive to us making a specific recommendation. And so this doesn't include every item. It includes only the three items that are bulleted on the the item of screen sharing.
Um but that that was the idea for this first one. And then for the second one, um most of those items except for the last two which are accepted.
Um the idea here was to um encourage council to create a working group to actually take on those uh suggestions. Whether that would be sort of a functional part of an existing committee
or a new kind of ad hoc group that would be formed is something that I wanted to get your input on. Um, and maybe the council just has to discuss that on their own. But like how we want to phrase that is something that I think could be finessed. But that was the idea
was just to give it a little bit more kind of um urgency and towards action as opposed to just like here's some nice things to know about what people said over the course of this year. Um, aside from charter article language revisions
which are in the in the table itself. So that's the idea. Okay. Um, can I go first? >> Yeah, go right ahead. Y >> um I I sent Eric, I sent you a note. I the
>> the notion of having a public forum on issues that have been processed and done, debated, voted on when the charter was formed doesn't seem to me to be helpful at all. Um, this is essentially
a call for another charter commission and we haven't heard any significant rationale for doing that. Um, we've heard from an variable number of people in a
non-scientific sample that they had some concerns about topics that were beyond the scope of this committee. And I think just telling the the council that we've heard about them and they're beyond the scope of the committee is sufficient. These topics were already debated and
discussed seven years ago and the results were voted in the affirmative by the town. I don't see a need to to redo that. Um, and I don't see a need to to even hint that we need to have another charter commission. So, I I would just
leave this be. Just tell the council that this is what we've heard or actually five things that we heard about the charter u form of the form of government. Um, and just let it be. Uh if if people really desperately feel
they need a charter commission, they can petition the council. >> Thank you, Bernie. Um any other comments before uh I introduce my amendments and then pass it to
Raphael. Annie, >> um I'm trying to think. Um, I was hoping that this would be that this these these suggestions would be broader than just the town council that that actually
the town that that town's people who might be interested in in collecting signatures for a new charter commission might see this and say, "Yeah, that's a good idea. We should be discussing that." Um, I guess having the council hold a public
forum might be a way of stimulating that. Um, but I mean there there were more than these three that were listed there. There was also one about going back to town meeting and there was one about >> um
uh smaller. Well, I guess yeah, there are those three. There's the allow the council to increase line items. There's town election of of planning board and zoning board of appeals. >> Yeah. >> And there's a comprehensive review of resident boards and committees.
>> So, I think all of those are kind of worth considering. >> Um, >> these are I'm sorry to interrupt you. These are just these are just the ones that I'm pulling out. Um that that could be that that it doesn't preclude any any
anyone in the town or anyone any public sort of any group of members of the public who want to take up some one or more of these issues to do something else with it to to do a petition or or an
initiative or anything or try to get a charter commission going or anything else. This is what I was trying to aim at, and I totally take your point that I've been selective here about which ones I pulled out. Um, is >> I like those three, but >> yeah, it's to it's to get counsel to to
um to be the convenor or to be the the um to to act as this the convenor of this specific conversation. Um it we could I think we could debate like whether it's
these three or or not. Um but I think the mechanisms for the public are already clear. Those already exist. That's not new. What would be new would be asking council to sort of you know you know stage a conversation solicit some more information. We weren't able,
just as an example, we weren't able to solicit deep consultation with Collins for, for example, on the the um pros, cons, or anything else about these changes because they were they would exist at at such a um sort of baseline
level uh or of changing the charter. Um, and so who can who can get that outside expert opinion, right? Even a group of the public who decides to take up an initiative
uh wouldn't necessarily be able to get that and and I think council could. So that was the idea. And I'm sorry I interrupted you. >> No, it's fine. I just I guess I I I don't necessarily mind the idea of the
council convening a discussion of you know a public discussion of this section. Um I just don't know why why we would pick and choose certain parts of it. >> Right.
>> Yeah. I I'll just comment that if is it okay if I screen share here, Erica? Yep. >> Thank you. Um, okay. You all see that? Okay. >> Great. Um, so some of these are just
little wording changes, but a few of the proposals I I liked the direction Erica was going in, but I I generally agreed with Andy that we should not be selective in what we
choose. I think we should put all ideas out on the table and um allow the public to have more of a dialogue I think because we I think a public forum we will hear from similar people who say we
want this and you'll hear from other people who say well we want this other thing but if we have a dialogue I think it more sort of builds a constructive like what do we do next as a community rather than just a
sort of hear people's grievances. And it would be a good time to test or see the section 8.1 that we're proposing. If the council indeeds adopts that, it would be a good ability to see
that in action and see it used. Um, I think we should lay out all options on the table. I don't think we should be selective here. I think um it if it's a public dialogue, everything should be out on the table and we can
discuss what we think works best. Um and then the other things are just some small wording changes. Uh I did make a little bit of a change just to uh give a little bit more time for the
working group and uh and hopefully allow like if an issue comes up in the community regarding transparency that that working group could discuss that as well. Um, and then this was sort of just a formality even though it's big bold font. Um, which is adding what we voted
as our last meeting at our last meeting to the um beyond the charter document. Uh, it may have already been added um by this point, but when I wrote this, it was not. Um, >> it is
>> it is excellent. Thank you, Andy. Um, other Do you have another comment, Andy? >> Yeah, I um I like the public dialogue idea. I um and I like the potential expertise from a consultant.
Um I don't think we should be adding additional suggestions that we haven't really heard from the public, that we haven't discussed prior to now. So, I'm not really in favor of adding change to a larger town council or a smaller represented town meeting. Um, I I I don't know where those came from, but I
don't think we really heard those from anybody and it seems kind of late in the game to be adding them. But I I I I like what you're saying. I like highlighting the public dialogue idea and I think it's con to me it sounds like a friendly amendment um to what what Eric is saying
and and I like the addition of the col you know I mean they could choose whether or not to you know consider it adding you know seeking specific expertise from your consultant but so I guess I'm I I I feel more comfortable having a
dialogue about all the issues listed here the structural issues isues and I'm I'm just not comfortable adding new structural issues besides the ones we already had. >> Okay. What if we were This is just something I had an idea I guess. What if
we were to revise this to be from the document from the uh beyond the charter document that we've already approved and have it be all of the suggestions um from that document that we just copy
paste here. Um >> meaning theructruct the structural issues. >> Yes, exactly. And to hold a public dialogue on all of those structural issues. I'd be totally open to that. This was just sort of I just was throwing this out there to sort of make
it more even of what issues were bringing forward. >> Bernie and then Americans. >> Yeah. I I I would think that if we just made a statement re referring back to
structural issues and saying it might be helpful to have a discussion about these structural issues to give people a better understanding of how the town government operates and to get a perspective of what um um what what's out there in terms of forms of
government that that would be better than these bullet points. Um, so I'm I'm sort of agreeing with Andy. I'm sort of agreeing with you, Julian, but I'm I'm I'm trying not to I'm trying not to drive
the discussion in a certain direction because we did hear from a large number of we heard from a number of people about a number of different things. We don't know how significant those uh feelings are because we simply didn't
have the opportunity to do that kind of survey. So um you know to have a a dozen or so people say we should have a smaller town council. It's an interesting idea but is it merit
how much does it merit a discussion? Um, so I I would just encourage the council to have a dialogue uh employing some some expertise folks from the Collins Center about the
form of government and the concerns that people might have about it as opposed to being a set of bullet points. >> Thank you, Bernie. Um, Erica. Um, so we'll need to clarify like whe
whether because I I think I heard Andy saying that it would it would make sense this suggestion would make sense if it was applied to all of the bullet points that we collected and nothing new. So that's one thing. And then I think Bernie, I hear you saying
um that holding a public dialogue on issues having to do with the form of government broadly as opposed to specific bullet points that we've outlined. Um but so that's two different things. And then the question I I had raised my
hand about was does do either of those things imply changing the time frame? Um because again the idea here was to give a little bit of uh a little bit of action, a little bit of, you know, light a fire under this to
to get something um to give council something to actively respond to. Um and so I put a time frame which might seem arbitrary, might seem like not enough, might seem like too long depending how you look at it. Um, but if we're saying
have a public dialogue about everything we've listed in the structural items, um, that's I think considerably weightier, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's just it's just the format. So, I'm just opening that up.
>> Yeah, thank you. I was just going to add that I'm totally open to just having everything in the structural dialogue in the structural issues section be open to the dialogue. I think that is a great way to sort of balance it out and make
sure that we're not guiding that dialogue before it happens in any specific direction. So, I think that that that is a totally reasonable way to approach this. I think what I tried to put out here by adding these other
changes was to sort of push back against it being guided in a certain direction and sort of level it out. But I think that if we did everything within the structural dialogue within the structural issues for a dialogue that
would would have the same effect um and we could change that timeline to 24 months given that it's a little bit more work. Okay. Um I don't have a specific opinion about this narrow question but I feel the one thing I'm bringing to this meeting is
the wanting to communicate uh that people had a lot of enthusiasm for participating in this people had ideas. People want to be involved and that however our report is used. You
know, we hope that that spirit would continue, that the council would be open to hearing ideas of how things can be done differently, which has not been the case in my opinion. Um, partly because they've been so bogged down with just
making it work. But um I think we've we've heard a lot of enthusiastic a lot of appreciation for participating and the more we can encourage that to go on the better. >> Yeah, I agree. Thanks, Meg. Andy.
>> Um I know I know we have a Raphael made some um edits and I'm just looking to see if there's anything in this section that that Raphael wanted to um respond to that because we're mostly in the earlier part of the report >> Raphael. Yeah, thanks for asking.
>> I think they're in both. And I think in terms of like our process, I don't know if someone is going to be looking at all these edits and sort of crafting the final. If you look at my edits, some of
them focus on like flow, clarity. So, I don't know if anybody did that. I offered them. Um but I think someone perhaps it would be helpful if someone sat with all the edits and attended to them. Um so in terms of this
section I offered things but doing it here is tricky. I think Erica is the primary architect. I think you would go in and see if it is helpful. Um, like for instance in the like the first part
for instance, there's a part where folks included like a thank you to uh Athena and Samantha, but it doesn't seem to help with the flow. So, I have some questions that I asked, but doing it here is tricky to me, I think.
I was just wondering if there's anything that any specific question there. I'm looking at your edits to consider and I don't see anything specifically in the >> beyond the charter section. >> I'm going to scroll down.
>> Yeah, I didn't see anything. Um >> I just want to make sure >> it was mostly like wording and changes. >> It's just wording stuff for the Beyond the Charter. Oh, when is it the yellow sections where you're highlighting them as being
>> I'm going to scroll down. I'm looking now. I need to get to that. >> Yeah, the the yellow is just like that's a word addition. Um the other changes are in bold. Um, so those are just like editorial
things for Erica to consider. >> Thank you. Yeah. And I was just going to say that similar to like where you see the bolded I guess the public dialogue and the um additional forms of government here aren't that. But the
these types of changes or other entity or changing to like 24 months and whatnot. Those sort of small changes I assume could just be accepted through a friend friendly amendment. >> Yeah. So Erica is just bold and and and
the others it's just bold and highlighted. >> Oh, so anything that's bold is is suggested new language. >> Yeah. So the bold when it's um the bolded text >> changes are highlighted. The other text I just bolded. Does that
make sense? So if it was initially bold, the changes highlighted. >> Yeah. >> If not, I just bolded. >> Yeah, that makes sense. I need to reread it. But yes, that makes sense. >> I see. Okay. So there's a lot. Yeah, there's a number of bolded uh >> Yeah, there are a number of things there.
>> So that Okay. So then if it was bolded before then you added the highlighting. I guess we got it. >> You got it. Um before we >> Yep. >> these were um did. So there's I think Raphael, you're talking it's not anything about this.
This is an addition. Okay. >> Is a separate issue. It's the edits that you're suggesting for the language of all those suggestions themselves. >> Yeah. >> And this is sort of on top of each >> on top of this. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> And and just a note, Ken Ken did some copy editing um that has been incorporated in the most recent version. So this would be on top of that. >> Okay. >> Great. So, I'm just going to go through here and just for the sake of moving us
along, I'll make the motion to adopt um the Beyond the Charter uh edits that Erica proposed with um the changes of a public dialogue per
section 8.1 and the bullet point list being deleted and replaced. with the structural changes section of the beyond the charter document. >> Second.
>> Okay. Um any further discussion on that? >> Um just a clarification is that the motion that you just made, Julian, is that just for part one here? Yes. >> So, there's a part two as well. >> Yeah. That's just for part one.
>> Okay. >> Yep. Um and I'm assuming you'll accept the from a consultant and the adding of the S's and whatnot as friendly amendments here. >> Great. >> Um >> the only thing that I think is you're
the motion changes is some of the language about referencing 8.1 and making clear that it's for all of the listed structural changes, not just the ones that I pulled out. Exactly. >> Got it. >> Yep. Um, any comments before we vote on
that? >> Nope. Okay. Um, myself, I'm an I. Andy, >> I >> uh Raphael, >> yes. >> Bernie, >> yes. >> Erica, >> yes. >> And Meg, >> yes. >> Excellent. That's unanimous. I will move
us along. Yep. Sorry. Before um if we get to the preamble, I just want to forward it. I wrote it. Ken edited it. Julian, you said we discussed it at this meeting. Is that appropriate for me to forward it to everybody just so you have it in the background? If
>> Yeah. Yes. Go right ahead. Thank you, Mike. Um we are first going to just get to uh section two here. Obviously, you can ignore um the addition here since that's been added. Um but this working group
basically so the issues to discuss are if we want to approve recommending this working group and if we want it to solely take on five issues from this list or if we want to have it um be able to
consider other items um of transparency and whether we want it at 18 or 24 months. Uh, does someone want to make a motion for us here? >> Can I ask a question? >> Um,
is it is the language that we're seeing here basically the same as what Erica proposed or is it different? >> It's slightly different but pretty similar. Eric, >> the bold parts are different or >> Yeah, it's just the bolded parts that are different and two or three of them
are just sort of grammatical edits. >> I guess I guess so. >> I'll make a motion that we approve this. >> Okay. >> Um for the sake of discussion. >> Great. I'll second. Um the real things
to discuss are right here uh in that I just highlighted. Do we want in my mind we should open this working group up to be able to take on other issues related to transparency that pop up in the community um if they're so inclined to.
And because of that it might take them a little longer to work on it. So, we give them 24 months. That's just my suggestion. People can debate as they see fit. I'm not very attached to it.
>> Can we see Erica's version? >> Let me stop screen sharing. Um, >> put it up. >> Sure. Or I can. >> It's this section here. Number two. Um, I
I guess I'd like to hear why why you think we should have a particular working group. Um, and and whether it would be a subcommittee or like an ad hoc committee of the council or you're talking about a public committee or or what?
>> The reason why >> looks like you're saying either. >> What's that? >> It looks like you're saying either now that I read it again. I am saying either because I don't know what would actually be more um what would be sort of easier to put
together or what would be kind of um more effective. Um and I don't know that we have time or space latitude in this group to to figure that out. Um, but that it might be up to an existing
committee to sort out how to do that. I don't necessarily know if we can dictate it. But the reason I'm using the working group language is because I don't know what that what that will be called. There were times like in our working year where we discussed
should this be a subcommittee or should this be just the kind of writing group that's putting together this draft or that. And that's an example of like if you form a subcommittee there's certain formal implications of what that means about meeting schedules and public
posting and everything else. Um, I'm uncertain whether we could actually dictate that because it would be and whether it should be a standing thing or an ad hoc thing. There's so many questions that I wanted to try to
leave it as open as possible but still imply that it's it's actually super necessary in some way, whatever form it takes. Um, so I'm not sure how that will how that will land for for the town
council discussing this or how it will eventually kind of come out the other end of the pipe. But um that was that was my thinking and putting it in those sort of broad and unspecific terms uh but still trying to
give it a time and a and a sort of frame of what what the purpose is what the idea is behind it. >> Yeah. Sorry Bernie go right ahead. >> You're muted Bernie.
I I'll it's me. Um I I actually prefer this version for two reasons. One, it sets a boundary of, you know, pick five priority items that
that are identified in this report. So it focuses them back on this report and uh and puts a framework around that. The other thing it does is 18 months puts it within the terms of the current
council. 24 months, some of them could be retired, gone, voted out, who knows? So, um, my you know, it's not that one or the other is
my preference is is for this version rather than the uh the one that's a little bit broader. This is more focused. I I I agree with Erica that u it it's tough to frame this and it's tough to say that we you know to tell the council how to do this. They're
going to have to have some room to move on this to make it work. >> Yeah. Thank you, Bernie. I'll just say that's a good point you raise about keeping it within the term of this council. Um I I generally agree with
you. I didn't realize that, but I I see see what you're saying about not wanting this to sort of linger over into another council. Um, it just it would complicate things. Raphael,
>> so Erica, do do you mind sharing more about why you think like this sort of prescriptive ask will lead to like action by the council? Do you think it's necessary? helpful in what ways?
>> Um, >> so we're like asking for a working group. >> Yeah. >> Focus on >> I guess the reason is that um many of the things that are listed in that public engagement section are some of the things that
uh people you know expressed with most um >> energy >> with most energy. Thank you, Meg. For outside of um the legal kind of technical parts of revising the actual charter, these are the kinds of things
that people suggested to us um that that impact their lives daily. Things like the website, what how do you experience public comment? What is your direct experience of how you engage with your counselor? Those are the things that we cannot mandate. And so how do we do
something that's we can't mandate council you know write in you must you must engage with your constituents in you know this many interactions per week right but you can >> you must >> but you can't just say it would be
really nice if we had more engagement. So somewhere in between there is the idea that there are specific actions you can take. There are kind of ways to measure how well you're doing, how well how well the situation was in 2025, and
how well is it doing midway through 2027 when you finish an 18-month process of kind of looking at and trying to improve and tinker with it directly how how the sort of machinery of government is
actually working with and um offering information and receiving information to from the public. So that's the idea and the idea of making a urging them to make a group to take action is to give them something to vote on. Is to give council
something to say let's move it from um an open-ended discussion to something we can take action on. and council can't really take action unless there's votable sort you know motions um which we can't form without more information
and without more you know massaging and so that's I don't know if that totally answers your question but that was some of the thinking behind it was like give it some some teeth they need if they need to do up or down >> this is closer to >> let's put something in motion here
>> at the close of this process to to try to improve improve transparency and public engagement, which is what a lot of people want to see happen differently um in town government. >> So So in some ways you think this could
lead to like accountability for this the the public engagement issues. >> I hope so. Yeah. That's why I put an accountability mechanism. That's the idea of of the of having a group. Yeah. >> Yeah. cuz I I actually think like the intro to that public engagement issues,
there's language like design and urgency that I think is important. Um, but I hear you in terms of how this might help. Thanks. >> Yeah, I was I was just going to say that I agree with the premise of what Erica
is trying to do here. I think that we heard a lot about section 8 and although we made a few pretty good suggestions um of what we can do in section 8, I think there's still more to be done after
those suggestions and that opening this up and allowing that discussion to take place and there to be a body that has some sort of accountability um to the council and for the council is
is is a good idea. Um, exactly what form it takes. I had some suggestions. I'm open to the way Erica's proposed it too. Me, >> I strongly support what Erica said. There are a whole bunch of things where we could have gone deeper. One small
example is problems with the website. I mean, we could have written 10 pages of recommendations on how the website needs to be improved so that people have better access. I mean, I'm not even tempted to say like this, like that. Um, but if there was such a group, a
committee, they might convene a public discussion about how to improve the website. I know the uh uh Samantha's wants, I think it's on her long lengthy to-do list of improve the website. Well, it would be great to get input
on how people wish it worked. to me the fact that every different every committee has a totally different format for how they use their web page in terms of minutes and recordings and so on. But um I mean I don't need to go on about that one example, but I think there are other things like that where it would
giving the public a chance to share more specifics would lead to improvements that people would actually experience as progress. >> Thank you Meg. I agree with your overall sentiment sentiment about um about the
engagement working group. Uh I personally think the website is fine, but that's also partially because I get most of my >> uh town information. >> Whether that's a good example or not, a lot of people have mentioned it.
>> Thanks. Um Sam and uh a team of us are working on looking at different vendors for the website and making improvements to the website. I think um we are you know in making changes we do
value public input but putting a website in the hands of a committee would be I I wouldn't suggest that. >> I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. >> Me neither. >> I didn't micromanage to that extent. mean a I didn't mean a committee should
design the website. I meant it might be worth listening to how people would like it to work better so that when they make these changes there it's well informed. >> Of course you don't want a committee Athena. Yeah, the things that the things that you mentioned Meg like standardizing the committee pages and
stuff like that um is something that we are working on and depending on whether we keep the the web um company that we have now or change it will >> you know it it will depend on how easy or difficult it is to do but so much of that is dependent on what company we
have. So, um, you know, I'm hoping there will be an outreach process, but we're in the middle of a budget cycle and it depends how much money we have to do these changes and so on. So, asking a committee to really dive into that is just a little tricky. >> Yep. >> Yeah,
>> that was maybe a bad example. >> That's so um Bernie. >> Yeah. My my my first remark is you need to start by reading the contract the town has with virtual town. It's not virtual town hall anymore. It's Civix Plus. Virtual Town Hall got bought up by
Civics Plus. They're the company that does our website and they have boundaries. Um the other thing is to keep in mind that websites are not static. They work on people, >> right? >> You got to have somebody feeding them the information, putting the information
in place. So, um, part of the problem here is having enough enough individuals to move the information along and craft it and edit it. You can't just throw it at the website and hope it sticks.
>> Um, ironically, I found it's easier to use Google to find stuff on the town website than find used it on website. But um you know so so that that's an example where people are going to have to get in the weeds and it may well be
that that it's better left to staff who have to live with this and work with this to um to come up with suggestions rather than a a ad hoc committee. >> I I just before you call in Andy I just want to gently urge the committee not to
spend too much time on this website issue just because >> absolutely same thing. I think we need to stay in our own as a committee where the charter review committee, not the manage how Samantha and on the website committee. >> I apologize it and I'm not trying to say
that it's not a valuable piece of input. I um respectfully I I hear that it works for you Julian, but it doesn't work for a lot of us. So um we we are working to improve it and I just don't want the committee to get hung up too much on right >> how to manage the website, how to make
it better. we're working on. >> Yeah. Thank you. And I'll just also say that probably why it works for me is because I also get a lot of my information off of the town's Instagram page. Um, which is good. >> Anyway, >> but regardless, Andy,
>> and Erica has her hand up, too. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, I just don't I don't think that this committee necessarily would be going into the weeds on the website. I think what they might do is declare victory on one of the bullet points, which is the website, and then they would look at four other areas. So, um, >> right,
>> you know, I I think having having the the idea here is to say, "This is an important issue. We'd like to have some people looking at how changes could be happening to improve some of these areas." And if they find out that there's a process going on the website or on anything else, they could say,
"Okay, there's one." And then they could move to something else. But I think it's more a matter of >> highlighting the recommendations and saying, "Well, what can be done in these areas?" the application process or the you know which which of these can we make some progress on and and what's happening and
you know at the council level that's sort of they would ask that and then they would hear about you know what is happening or what isn't and then at least they would they would um put a spotlight on these on some of the areas. So uh I I was a little I'm just a little
leerary. I think we have a lot of committees already and so another committee another working group is you know it's like all right um but I I you know I I like the idea of putting a
spotlight on these issues which I think are important and so maybe that's the way to do it. I I just don't I don't know about another committee but I I don't know of a better idea. So >> yeah, thank you. I was just going to add and then I'll go to Erica and Raphael
that this is seems to be time limited to 18 months. So I don't know maybe there would be a time limit on the committee that would keep us from having adding like too many committees. Um there'll be one less committee after we dissolve
tonight. Um Erica, >> yeah, Andy, um it's it's kind of exactly to your point if if um if a named working group of some kind could have insight into what is already happening
on the level of improvements like the website, then don't waste time on it, right? Like that's already underway. So put energy somewhere else. that that's exactly the idea uh in some ways is to really >> um uh and also becau it's I don't like the
idea of creating more committees either but I honestly don't know of a way to not just kind of hand this over and have it dissolve and then and then just be become part of the sort of um you know discourse of dissatisfaction uh
around town about how things don't work and why they don't work and I I feel like we have an opportunity to um get pay attention pay pay sort of requisite attention to what people said that sort of um falls outside of the
charter but still impacts government tremendously. And so a committee is un you know a a working group is just a sort of catchall to say like no really this needs to happen in some way and I don't know what way it will end up but
the idea of saying five priority items is because there's a lot there's a lot in this section. It's probably more than can reasonably be accomplished. It's my personal opinion. There should probably be a standing committee that just deals with this regularly, takes public input
regularly, is a kind of annual review um annual report card sort of approach, but um we're not there yet. We're not, you know, and this it's not this committee's purview to sort of make that >> make that happen entirely, but it's an
it's a suggestion for to take a different approach. Take it seriously. put five put five items on your to-do list and see what you get in 18 months. >> Yeah, thank you Raphael and then Athena. >> Yeah, I think Erica um I'm just thinking
like working group may be but some working groups are impactful others are not. I think for us since this has been such an issue when it comes to like public engagement in this process, it's been so prominent. I don't know if we
expand like the introduction and press or push a little more in terms of you'd really need to deal with this. Maybe it's working group, maybe it's standing committee, but I think like just making sure that language is prominent about
how many people talked about public engagement issues. I think just press making sure that's represented in the narrative in a strong way is crucial because I I don't know working group maybe but but I think just the
prominence of this hopefully that's captured in our >> Thank you Athena. Um I I think some of the the items that have come up in that that would fall into this working group idea are
executive functions and um maybe most of them I I can't pull up the full list right now but um the the mechanism for the council to work on those to to do anything about the
executive functions or responsibilities that fall within the executive ive authority is to give the town manager goals for the year and they've done that at the end um they've done that at the end of this current year and they can amend those goals. So
for some of those things like um you know working on the website and stuff like that like the council can add that to its list of goals for the town manager um to study public input and see if and how and where we can increase
that unless you think that's something that would be changed by the council. I mean, some of these things can go into the town manager goals and that would be a way of working with them that's not creating an ad hoc committee or working group that would be a public body.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Andy. >> You're muted, Andy. >> I think these are all important issues. Um, I think it's also important to recognize that our our form of government is a representative uh democracy or whatever. It it's it's
representational. And so we have part of part of the way I mean I think one of the things we say is make clear the variety of ways that people have to to be heard and to to um and I guess we do say speaking to their representatives
um I I wouldn't want this to just be seen as okay now we want to just like diminish the role of elected representatives. Um, >> no, >> but I think that, you know, I I think we heard from a
number of people that these are issues and um, you know, I I think that that it's it's appropriate for the council to consider um how some of these things can be
improved or to just ask the executive side, you know, we think we we are we believe this is important. You know, these areas are important. So, we're going to add those to the the to-do list. So, um I think that a committee could do
that. Um I just, you know, we didn't we didn't hear from a representative from a representative sample of the community. We heard from people who cared deep, you know, who who wanted to raise these issues. And so, I guess I'm just trying to I think we I
think we've struck a good good balance by raising them. And I guess to have some way of calling attention to them, I'm not I'm not against it. I just um just want to make sure that
that we're respecting the various roles that are in that are in the the the balance of power now. >> Yeah. Thank you, Athena. And then Meg, >> thank you. So just very quickly I want to put in a plug for datadriven decision
making. Um it's not something that a a committee is always very easily done. I mean some of these things are you know we can do some scholarly research on how to improve public engagement and how to improve certain things within town government
and it's not it's not always the easiest thing for a committee to do. So that's something we can either get a consultant to work with us on or ask staff to work on. Um, and that's something that I I personally feel is really important when we suggest changes
like this to be able to measure that we're making significant changes that first the change is really needed because the the data supports that and second that the the solution that we're offering um is is going to do the thing that we want it to do.
May >> um I agree with Athena and also with Erica. Um I think the biggest danger or concern I have is that it might be too easy for us to do this report and then absolutely nothing
happens. And um in fact that's been one thing that people have expressed concern about that whether it's a committee or scholarly research someplace where this thinking advances
is an important function what it I'm not I'm not necessarily saying a committee is better than a group doing scholarly research but making doing everything we can to make sure that this conversation moves forward. without undermining the role of elected
leaders and so on that Andy mentioned. >> Thank you. Um okay. So I guess we have to make a decision on this noticing the time. >> I just had one one comment before we do.
Um, Andy and Meg, just to just to clarify, is there something about the way that this is phrased or framed that specifically runs the risk of overriding the existing system of representation in
your view? >> I don't see it at all. I think it's fine. >> Um, I don't think No, I don't think so. Um, I I'm I'm chewing over the the data driven
piece and wondering if that should be that verbiage should be in here somewhere. I I think it was a really helpful suggestion from Athena to to reference datadriven decision-m and perhaps you know outside consultation that um
personally I would be open to to putting that in um in this paragraph uh somewhere around you know somewhere around in here. Um, >> yeah, >> but I think, you know, if we want to if
we want to move on this, I would um I would make a motion that we um include this language um before section B in the beyond the charter part of the final report with some additional
um with some additional language around uh gathering data or expert uh advice just like we do in the earlier section. >> Second. Um I'll move us along to voting. We've had pretty lengthy discussion on this.
Um myself, I'm an I. Meg. >> I. And I can even see where we could write it in there, but I'm an I. >> Um Erica, >> yes. Andy, >> yes. >> Um, Raphael,
>> yes. >> Bernie, >> you're muted, Bernie. >> Yes. >> Thanks. Um, okay, great. So, I'm just going to move us along in the agenda. Uh
we have discussed the uh section the beyond the charter. Um I'm going to make a motion to approve the review of the review. Erica, do you want to second that?
>> So the only thing about the review the re Yes, I'll second it. Um, the only thing about the review, the review is that I have not yet incorporated all of the things that people sent in the last 24 hours. So, um, but let me take this down so so we can
look at that, but have that, you know, have that in the back of your mind. >> Great. Um, do you want to pull it up? >> Sure. >> Okay. Um, and then we'll move on to your preamble, Meg, before we vote to approve the final.
>> One moment. >> No problem. I have too many windows open. Here we go. Is that visible? >> That's great. >> Okay. This is a, you know, an editable.
It's not a PDF. So, >> and we're just adopting the blue language, just to clarify. >> Um, I believe >> blue language is my my uh comments. >> Oh, okay. >> So, the ones that that I had received before I resent them a couple days ago
are this kind of bold stuff. Um, that includes comments I think from from Ken and Andy. Uh, but Bernie added some things in blue and uh I think Andy added some comments at the end of this.
>> I added I added some stuff but I didn't highlight it which was not smart but I can just tell you what I added. >> That's fine. Andy's thoughts are at the bottom so we'll have to like you know integrate them. But um where would how would you like to approach this?
Annie. >> Yeah. When when I looked at it, it it looked like there were there were a bunch of categories and a bunch of questions. So then uh the part that I put at the bottom was trying to turn it into
you know proposed language as opposed to I wasn't sure that um you know I I didn't sort of taking those categories and saying all right >> the budget was a big big thing that delayed us. Um,
>> and then scrolling down there's the um the process. So, you know, it was almost 3 months before we even met. And then but then we did but we did some good things and then some some challenges. Um, and then scrolling down further,
there's the the timeline. It was, you know, what what could work going forward. And this is sort of these are the pieces that we ended up sort of doing I think. But >> yeah, >> but how do you fit them into um you know if you can if you can
contract with a consultant early and they can walk you through the the charter. Once we had them, they walked us through the charter and we understood it a lot better and we came together around that. And then you got your outreach section and you can do that when people are here rather than during the summer. And then you can come out with an initial report summarizing
suggestions received and then you can release that report and then you can develop and vote on options for the preliminary report and then you can hold your public, you know. So anyway, it was just sort of I guess the one thing that was added was, you know, having public
meetings with elected officials and senior staff and um and then having potential follow-up interviews because we heard from several of the the counselors that that would have been a a useful way to to to interact. So, but in
general, this sort of took the questions and the categories and turned them into um you know, suggested or you know um you know what what the issues are. You
know, budget is a big issue. Um I forget what the middle one was. And then timeline. So, >> process. Yeah. >> Process and timeline. So that sort of things we did that worked well, things that were challenges, and then the potential timeline. So it's I don't know if that was what you were looking for,
but >> absolutely it >> what I saw was a bunch of questions, so I was trying to answer them in my own head. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. Um, does anyone have a motion they'd like to make regarding this? Raphael
>> before that happened. So, moving forward, who's charged with writing this part of the final report? And I shared Erica some comments on this document in red that I sent separately, but it's
repetitive in a way. Um, but my question is, who's handling this section >> like cleaning it? Oh, you are. Okay. Well, what I was going to say is it was it was originally the idea was to make this the um last
part of the addendum and before we renamed what the addendum was. >> Mhm. >> So, right now the addendum is is be has become issues of town government beyond the charter. Right. Reviewing the review is not necessarily that.
>> Yeah. Um it's just a separate sort of footnote to the process. Mhm. >> Um so, >> so would that be then a separate >> Yeah. >> a separate section that would be, >> you know, we'd have the specific
recommendations. We would have the, you know, improving Emirates government and then we would have reviewing the review. >> That's how it seems to me. But I'm I'm open to because originally as an addendum, it sort of fit as like part, you know,
>> part C of an addendum, but it doesn't quite work that way now. Yeah, I get and like the idea of this. I think it's a really good idea. I feel like it needs a little bit more work and it might be a little bit too late in the process to add an additional section
entirely to our final report. That's just sort of my opinion of where we're at right now, but I could be convinced otherwise. Raphael? Yeah, I I actually think it could be a se another section that just deals with
recommendations to improving this process and the sort of writing of it should be really targeted in terms of what the council could do to enhance this process. So I I think um I don't think it takes a
lot of time. I think it's framed really well already. It's just like tightening it up. But I think it should be separate. Um, and it's just offering some advice about moving forward to enhance what's happening, what happened
here. >> Erica's raising her hand. >> Sorry, my hand raising doesn't work with the screen share. Um, the part I highlighted here is all is really all I was thinking of in terms of framing of like a new section. This is it. This is
just like this was our experience as the inaugural group to do this and some suggestions for um for council and forever for whoever is appointed to do this next and then the rest is a kind of collated edited
version of everything that everybody has has said. Um there's it's editing work as opposed to new writing. I think >> Andy your notes are really thorough. your sec your auditions at the end and
everything that everybody contributed sort of adds to or overlaps what each other have said. Um and so I think this I I think this is an editing piece of work as opposed to kind of writing new pros. I think everyone has contributed
their their two cents here already. >> Yeah, agree. So, how how do we go about >> getting something that we can approve? Are we approving it before we see it?
>> Approving this or what are we doing? >> I mean, I can I I'm comfortable saying, "Great, Erica, go ahead and pull it all together, but then it seems like we should, you know, convene briefly before January 5th to say
>> that's what I meant. I just feel like it's too late in the process to say to basically send someone out to draft an entire additional section and then it would mean we have to meet again just to approve basically us reviewing
the review which is a good idea. I do I do think it has some merits to it. It's not a bad idea, but it feels at this point sort of like an add-on that with our deadline and the sake of time shouldn't be the top priority. Me and
then Raphael. I think I think it's legitimate although within you can change kind of edit what I'm going to say to describe a process that will happen which could be uh you know uh of the eight of us six have to sign off on
it by x date without having to meet >> I'm not sure that's allowed Athena >> it's just editing It's just appro check approval. >> You're you're asking if the committee can approve something outside a meeting. >> Yes. Correct.
>> It's like taking a vote outside a meeting, >> right? >> So I don't >> What's the answer? >> No. >> Right. Exactly. >> No, you can't do committee business outside of me.
>> You know, we could meet like tomorrow for 10 minutes or something. We need a 4 We need a 48 hour notice for a meeting. >> Two days. >> Raphael, just >> I actually think I'm with Eric. I think it's an editing thing. I think there's
content here that's clear. Um >> I agree. I >> I don't think there's a enormous amount of work to do and committee members weighed in. It's just our perspective. Um so our perspectives are here. someone
edits and I think it's informative. It's at the end. It's just a review of the review process based on committee members. >> I agree. >> I I think it's an editing thing to be honest. >> And I'm you go ahead. >> Sorry to interrupt Raphael.
>> Yeah, go ahead Erica. Um, I don't suppose it would be any different if we if we didn't call it part of the final report, if we if we included it as a sort of a separate document, a separate like um, you know,
a a letter, a cover letter. Um, I suppose we'd still have to vote on it. So I'm I don't think we I don't think we can or need to have another meeting. I think um
we have to either agree that um this can be the compiled and cleaned up suggestions that everyone has already submitted can be attached as a final section to the report or no?
>> Can't we just do it now? just go accept changes. >> I I think we have a final report to deal with, I think. >> Yeah, true. >> Right. So, >> you could you could authorize a member to write what Erica is suggesting on behalf of the committee just and trust that one member to do it
>> similar to similar to what we did with me and the minutes, which I think is a good idea. Thank you, Athena. Um, Andy, >> I was just going to say we could we could meet for five minutes
if we don't need to. I guess we don't need to then. I mean, if we authorize Erica and say, you know, what's here, you know, I guess I'm okay with that. I was going to say we could also meet on Friday and, you know, at 48 hour, whatever, slightly
later than now and and approve it. But >> I'm not I'm not eager to do that either. So >> I would just authorize Erica. I think as long as I or someone on this committee reviews it and there isn't any major major changes in its formatting
type of stuff, I don't see a problem authorizing Erica to do this. I think she's produced great document for us before. Um, and it would save the committee a bunch of time and hassles
and not risk us doing anything illegal. >> Andy, >> yeah, I mean, I certainly trust Erica. I'm just, you know, I'm trying to see what there's a lot of questions in in this draft right now. And then there's like some stuff that I wrote and some
blue stuff. And so, um, you know, I'm assuming that it's not going to be a bunch of questions when it's finished. is going to be >> no the questions were there as just prompts for all of us. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Bernie. >> Yeah. I I
would feel there's nothing in here that I would object to and the comments that I added don't expand to any degree on what's in the uh already the text is already in there. We know that Eric is very capable
of taking this and shaping it. Uh, we know that she's not going to like throw bombs, so that's fine. Uh, >> I would just I promise I won't include an amendment to disband the town council. >> All right, there you go. Uh
so so you you you know you can you can I mean we can just simply agree that this the content here is what we want to include as a third section of the report which is just our reflections on the
process and how to improve the process. We Erica can draft it because we've given her what we want to see in the report and let's move on. So long. >> So moved. So moved. >> I I second. Um and I think I just want
to put a date on it to make sure that I get it in time to send it to the council. Is it possible to get it to me by January 2nd, Erica? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Um >> thanks Erica. >> That way I'll probably be able to work
on it on the weekend. Uh excellent. Um so we'll move on to voting. myself. I'm an I. Bernie, >> yes. >> Erica, >> yes. >> Me? >> Yes. >> Rafael? >> Yes. >> Andy?
>> Yes. >> Excellent. Um, we will now move on to the preamble discussion. Meg, would you like to see screen share your preamble? >> Oh, I've sent it to you. >> I can screen share it, too. Here.
>> Why don't you? Because I I'm I could do that. I'll have to get it back up again. So, this was I did this on the 20. >> Yeah, I was I offered to do this if it's I'm not attached to it at all. I uh did
it on the 20th. Ken made edits on the 21st. There two places below where we need to make an edit because it's no I didn't know the name of the then called addendum. But if people haven't seen this, I don't know. Are we going to speed read it?
This basically sum I think this is what people wanted in the preamble. And again, I'm not attached to it. I just said I would do it and I did. >> I I'm I'm not certain this adds anything to what's already in the narrative, which is rewritten and edited.
>> Um >> I I agree. I had the same question actually. I think I said that earlier in this meeting >> as I was going as I was going through it. I'm you know reading through it. I I said, you know, we've uh um we seem to have covered much of this or most of
this maybe in a little different language, but it at this point I'm I really I feel very badly about saying that I I don't think it's terribly relevant, but I I don't think it's terribly relevant. >> Could you say gonna get the volume up?
Yep. No, I I would agree, Bernie, and I think that most of this is covered in the narrative. It's just a slightly shorter version of the narrative. Um, if folks want the narrative summarized for them, they can ask for a summary from
chat APT or read the newspaper just as easily. >> That's fine. I was just said I would do it and I did it and then >> Great. Yeah. No, no problem. Nope. No, it's it's well written. No problem with that. >> Cool. >> Um
>> uh so I >> Well, this Yep. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> No, we can just >> do we need a motion or do we just going to admit agree by consensus? We're just going to stick with what we got. >> Motion to dispose of the preamble. >> Second. >> Excellent. Myself.
>> Thank with thanks to Meg and Ken for their work. >> Yes. >> You're welcome. >> I was just trying to help. I don't care whether it's used. I mean, of you know, >> I don't want to waste time, but anyway. >> Okay, we have to vote this real quick. Myself, I'm an I. Bernie. >> Yes, >> Raphael.
>> H sorry, Meg. >> Meg. >> Oh, no. >> I'm uh No. Yes. >> Um >> Andy. >> Yes. Erica >> with gratitude to me. Yes.
>> Great. Excellent. Um moving us right back to the agenda. Um I just want before we approve the final report um the only does anyone besides Raphael
have amendments? Raise your hand now. No. Okay. Um Raphael, would you like to discuss your amendments? I I think they're in the document. Like I think it's editorial stuff. I I don't know if folks went through it. I sent it to
everybody. Spending time here doing it. I don't think it's worthwhile. >> I >> I personally went through it and I thought it was mostly just editorialized. >> Yeah, it is. >> It wasn't anything major. And I guess for the sake of formality, I'll make a
motion that we approve your edits. >> All right. Second. >> Excellent. Um Whoops. Uh, myself, I'm an I. Raphael, >> yes. >> Meg, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Erica,
>> yes. >> And Bernie, >> yes. >> Great. Um, I will make motion. Yes. Go ahead. >> Just since I've been keeping the the word versions of this, um, I'm happy to
go through and, you know, update it. so that so that they're in. >> Again, if you can send that to me by the second, that's perfect. >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much. Um Okay. Uh I will make the motion that we approve
our final report with the amendments um and additions as previously voted. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Just a discussion brief. >> Yes. Any discussion? Raise your hand. Meg. I want to appreciate our committee
and how we worked on this uh tossing it back and forth and people took really big leadership and I I just appreciate so much working with you on this report and how everybody pitched in small
without big egos and uh a lot of writing talent surfaced. So I don't have to identify who people are but some of particular some individuals really did a lot of work on this. So thank you and I like it that we all have worked together
so well and haven't uh and haven't you know moved around. It's just to make it work especially as our timeline got so short. Anyway, I really appreciate it especially the last two months of this process.
>> Thank you Megan. I >> Well, don't you know, I'm sure you all know what I mean. I've just been blown away by how many people pitched in selflessly >> uh right at the holiday time. It was pretty amazing. >> Yes. And thank you.
>> Yay. Us >> for all her assistance and contributions and >> Yep. um being taken on our committee uh as we were formed. Okay. Any other comments?
No. Myself? I am an I. Andy >> I. >> Meg. >> I. >> Bernie. >> Yes. >> Erica. >> Yes. >> Raphael. >> Yes. Excellent. The final the final
report is approved. Once Erica and Andy get me those edits, I will send it off to the town council as I have with the two other reports. Um, and I will we will see you all on the 5th and the 12th to discuss it. I've clarified the dates.
I did want to have a brief discussion before we dissolve about the um final presentation to the town council which is actually two final presentations. Uh obviously the meeting will be posted as a joint meeting both
times. Um I just wanted to see if anyone had a brief discussion about how to coordinate what we want to present. Um, as well as if we had any slideshow or brief overview we wanted to give on the
5th. Um, Athena and then Erica and Andy and Meg. >> Just real quickly, I don't think we need to post those as joint meetings because then you'll have to do minutes for those presentations and stuff. The committee is not going to be discussing any more recommendations. You're just going to be presenting the information that you've shared in the report.
>> Besides, we we dissolve as soon as the report's in the council's hand. >> Right. So, um, the committee is invited, but, um, it won't be posted as a joint meeting. Just a clarification. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. And I will just say I do I'll personally be there.
I do encourage other committee members to show up. Obviously, Andy will be there. Um, but I don't want to have a situation where I'm speaking on behalf of the entire committee. I really do want to encourage members to show up and speak your opinions um of the process
and try to answer questions um as well. Um so please even though it's not posted as a joint meeting, please do attend and I will send an email reminder as well. >> Erica and then Andy.
>> Thank you. So if um if it's not a joint meeting and we're we're an agenda item um in on that January 5th meeting, do we know uh do we have a time frame? Um this is a question for anyone or and even Athena. Um do we have a time frame that we
should occupy or not go over? Do we have a format that's expected for delivering a report? Like how much of this is um are we highlighting certain points? Are we going through section by section? Like what's required of us and then what what can we do within that?
>> So that's a great question. I have some of the answer. I'm sure Athena has a better answer. Some we're not really required to do all that much besides send an email. I'm encouraging us to as a committee to attend the two meetings
and I will be there. Other committee members I encourage to speak. Uh to answer your question, Erica, I think that what's required of us is that we've submitted the report and it's in the hands of the council president. I will
be in touch with the council president who um and Athena uh as well as there will be a new council president by the time that we vote um and are in front of them. But traditionally I am sent a
uh order of the agenda that gives rough estimated times for how long issues will take. It's a very rough estimate but it gives an idea of when in the agenda we will be. Um I've been sent that before and if I'm not sent it uh I'll probably
ask for it on the third or the fourth. Um, Athena, you you do you have any additional >> We have a pretty brief agenda. >> Um, the the council has to um elect a new
president and vice president prior to the committee's presentation. There's um the expectation for so that that could push your presentation time. I can't say exactly how long it's going to take them to elect a president and vice president. Sometimes it's relatively
quick, but they have to do written ballots and there's a whole process and and then we do it again for the vice president. So that does take a little bit of time. So I wouldn't expect that um they would begin speaking with you until probably closer to 7. Um and then when we when I had discussed
this with the president, we set the agenda for January 5th. What we had talked about was that the committee would present the report and you can do that in whatever form you like. If you want to just do a quick overview, if you want to do a little bit more of an in-depth explanation of everything at
that point, um the the council won't have your have had your report in their hands for very long. Um, so there might not be time for them, I mean, aside from you, Andy, of course, there might not be time for them to really read through carefully and and have a lot of
questions for you on the 5th. Um, so what we've imagined is a a report, a verbal presentation. If you want to do slides, that's great. If not, that's fine. And then the council will have your report to look at for that week.
And then there will be more of a discussion and votes to refer or do whatever the council decides to do with it on January 12th. Does that help, Erica? Did I touch on all of your questions? >> Yes, I think you did. Um, >> okay. >> The I guess the my followup is on the
12th, is there additional presentation or kind of Q&A or discussion expected of us? Um, like I said, the council won't have your report for very long on the 5th. So, so I think they might have more
questions after they read through it, but much of it will be a council discussion about what actions to take. Mhm. >> Um and then I'm, you know, my my feeling is that they'll probably refer it to committee to figure out what to um you
know, what form the the votes to to do with everything will need to be. Um and a lot of the conversation about the recommendations will take place at committee. So it might be useful for this committee to um author either
authorize a member to attend committee meetings and answer questions based on this committee's um discussions or you know just expect to that that's going to happen and and it will be in the committee's hands at that point if that's the way it goes.
>> Thank you Athena and sorry to cut you off Megan Andy. I just wanted to clarify one thing which is I was sort of thinking that we would provide at the January 5th meeting a edited version authorize a member or two to work on an
edited version of the uh slideshow that we presented at the public forum. um to provide the council a overview on the 5th um and then to show up as a committee to answer questions as a Q&A
without a slideshow on the 12th and then to authorize one or two members or just the chair and vice chair to attend committee meetings as requested and answer questions as best we can.
Um Andy then er then me then Bernie. >> Yeah, I was just going to mention that we we had two sets of slides the last time. We didn't get to the the more detailed but you know there's one slide for each of the charter related recommendations including rationale and
we added four I think additional proposals. So we don't have slides for those um if if we're using that. So, um, you know, editing I don't know if the if the slideshow we used that might be
enough or if we wanted to distribute the other slides that I mean I I don't know if we need to I mean the report sort of has its chart in it but I don't know how long we're going to I don't know if we have time to go through all the you know the the 22 suggestions that there and
maybe it's more just the orienting them to the report. So, there's this first se, you know, here's what we did. There's a section of specific changes that you guys can vote on and then there's an important section that is beyond the charter that we also
encourage you to take action on. Um, and then they can look at it and come back and and then uh, you know, ask questions on the 12th. >> Yeah, I feel >> if we're going to use the slides, we don't have slides for the new ones. So, >> I feel like it's more of an orientation
to the report and that we would use the first slideshow but not the second one. Mhm. Um May >> um I think I agree with that and I think it's this is basically after they elect officers the only agenda item in the meeting and it's what Scott Mursbach is
going to write about that we should uh you know your comments Julian are important particularly in um setting up the conversation we want to have on on January 12th. >> Well, not just my comments. Let's have >> Well, that's what I'd like to know if
you want others of us to speak or would you I'd be happy to send you some thoughts on what you might how you might frame it or um just but I don't want to be bumbling. I think we should know what the plan is and who's speaking and what's appropriate. But I I think the
meeting on the 5th is very important for getting their interest, giving them enough information so they see some of the meat of what's involved, but not so much that they get confused. just what Andy just said, you know, the shorter slides. Um, but enough information so they come to that second meeting
prepared to talk substantively about what we're recommending. >> Yeah. Not not that I can't do it. I just want to I can preface and begin the slideshow and frame the discussion and answer questions and all that sort of
thing. I just want to allow the opportunity and encourage other committee members to be there as well. and engage with the council both on the 5th and the 12th. Um, solely because although I can speak for the committee, I am one point of view on this committee
and I know that we have a diversity of viewpoints and a diversity of perspectives and I would like the council to hear that as well. So that's why I'd encourage other members to attend if they can. Um, Bernie, Andy, and then Erica. Yeah.
Um, I think just going back to what Andy had said, I think being able to walk on the fifth, being able to walk the council through the report, just do some highlights. Um, and u, you know, encourage them to to read it, read it
thoroughly, and then have us come back the following week and take questions and and go back and forth u with them. I I don't know how elaborate the presentation has to be. One thing I would do given that we're going to have
uh we'll have Scott there, I'm sure. He may be there, he may not >> um is to make sure that he has a copy of the report. >> Um y >> it's a public document as of our vote. So um you know, make sure he has a copy
of the document, maybe send him a copy in advance. Um, after you pres you after you you once you once you give once it's in the hands of the council, make a copy available to to to Scott. I'd also suggest that Athena um if you could
speak with with Paul about uh sending a copy of this report off to the town attorney u because the council's going to need some recommendations as to how to implement those. uh they're going to need some
information as to how to implement the recommendations we've made. Whether it's going to require it's it's something that they can simply vote, whether it's going to require special legislation. We didn't get into that. We didn't have the opportunity. We didn't have the resources. But that's uh that's something the council's going to have to
advise on if not now at some point. >> Yep. I expect that. Um it might not happen as soon as I receive the report. It will probably be once the council decides what to do with it. I mean, the the council's final
action could be to table it indefinitely. >> I hope not. >> That's a poss how about probabilities instead. >> So, um I'll see what happens when they vote and then we'll we'll go from there.
Yep. Definitely attorney review. >> Andy and then Erica. >> Yeah. I was just going to propose that um we have our our chair and vice chair um you know with roles and maybe that um Julian gives an overview and then Erica
walks through the sections to sort of say because she's very familiar with um you know this the second parts as well. So, um, m maybe Julian does the overview and and, uh, Erica says, "Okay, in
section one, we have this, section two, we have this, section three, we have this." >> That's great. I agree, Erica. Yeah, I was going to say something similar that Julian if you wanted to for instance um use the language in the narrative to give a kind of the framing of the whole
thing and the background of our process I'm happy to talk through the what you know how we divided the sections and why we did that and what the um respective sections contain. >> Excellent. Perfect. Um, I'll just say
that I can revise the slideshow a little to be a little bit cleaner, fancier for the council. Um, and the other thing that I was just going to add is that I think on the 12th if we can have some more members there to answer questions since that will be when the dialogue is
a little bit more common or was a little bit more intense that would be great. Um, I think me and Erica can also answer questions at committee meetings and so on and so forth as they pop up. I'm sure Andy, depending on what committee you're
on, um, I can I urge you to be on the committee that deals with this just so that they have some guidance internally. That would be excellent. But that's just my suggestion. You do with your time how you please. The president gets to assign
members, council members to Andy doesn't get to pick, unfortunately. Unless he's the president. >> Unless he's the president. Right. I'm just gonna say him in my working group. >> Preference. Yeah. >> Yeah. Express. Yeah. Exactly. Um Erica, did you have a comment?
>> I was just making a joke. I'm gonna put Andy in the working group. >> Oh, okay. Great. Um I don't think we have anything else. Uh do we want to give a quick overview of who's doing what? I know Erica is going
to be working on that uh on the discussion. >> Two things that review the review and the edits to the beyond the charter that we agreed on tonight. By January 2nd, you'll have them. >> And Andy's going to be making Raphael's
edits by January. Great. >> Yes. >> And if Erica, you want to just send me the that section, I can just append it and then send it to Julian. So >> perfect. >> And I will be sending it off to the council by January 2nd. And I will be editing the slideshow for the council
and maybe putting some speaker notes or something and sending it to Erica by January sec maybe 3rd. I actually am going on January 2nd. So maybe January. >> And who's sending it to Scott? >> Um and I'll send it to Scott. Thank you. Yep. I'll send the final report to Scott as
well. before we send it to Scott, make sure that it's in the hands of of the uh of the council. >> Yep. I'll send it to the town council and then send it to Scott separately after that. >> Erica, >> I just wanted to say when you send it to council, please include Sam so that she
can post it directly on our >> Yes, great idea. Thank you. Um, and I can also send a note separately to Sam to ask that it be posted on the Instagram and whatnot. And I will, in addition, if I remember, uh, and if I
don't, I am sure that Darcy Deont will remind me um, to put the final minutes out of our committee and give them to >> Athena. Great. Just a quick note, Julian, when you send that out, just um I just want to make sure that the new
counselors get that. And we changed the town council distribution list once the new counselors are sworn in. So I want to make sure the new counselors receive it. So let's just touch >> and it's going to be so if I go all town counselors, which is how I've done it
before, or all town members, that email address that might not on January 2nd automatically send it to the new counselors. Is that correct? >> That's what I'm saying. Because because the new council isn't seated until January 5th, but you want to submit the final report to the existing council and
the new counselors. So, I can I can give you their email addresses. I just I want to make sure that you get those before you send it out. I will put in all town council members in the email address um so that it goes to the current town
council and I'll get the uh other town counselor's email addresses from you. I may already have two or three of them but there may be one I need. Um so I'll make sure to get those from you if I don't have them as well as CC Samantha
the committee send it to Scott so on and so forth. Bernie, >> just um in terms of distributions, I think a courtesy copy to the town manager. >> Yeah, absolutely. I've CC in the town manager on every um on every
>> the question that can answer because I think we need to send a copy to the town clerk. >> Oh, that's a good point. I have not done that in the past, but I'm happy to do that this time. Um
>> Erica and then Megan. >> Um I just this is about this meeting. Um given that the work that has to happen that I'm responsible for between now and uh report due date. Um I am certain I
will not do minutes by then. Um, so either I can do them well after January 5th or someone can volunteer to do the minutes for this meeting and submit them whenever. >> I'll I'll do the minutes here. >> Great. Volunteer now that I've figured
out how to do a >> Athena will send me the uh the uh Zoom link and I'll I'll compile. >> Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> I the state law requires us to have minutes. I don't believe they require us to have minutes by a certain time. So do
them as you >> next next year. >> Yes, do them >> three months or Yeah, there is a time >> as long as it's before the next charter review. >> Yeah, I can produce those in relatively short order. Yeah, take that one small
thing off air. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Bernie. I appreciate it. And yeah, I really honestly the minutes are of low priority. Um, Meg and then Andy,
>> do we want to consider using the larger slideshow for this January 5th 12th meeting? >> That's what I was suggesting. >> Oh, sorry. >> Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Um Andy >> um just that we had um in the table of
contents we um have an appendix I think that includes the list of comments which is a 35 30 something page document PDF. So >> right here this is it. >> I think we were we were thinking that that would be referred to as being
online at our web page. So does that make sense? >> Can you all see this? I will be submitting this to the town council um and everybody else we've mentioned um when I submit the final report. >> I I thought we were gonna post that and
have a just have the report have a link to >> just have the link to Yes. Sorry. >> Rather than distribute 35 pages to 35 people, >> right? And it's linked in your narrative, right? >> Well, we don't >> you can't link to it because it's not posted yet.
But once it is posted, it will be linked in the nar and I can send it and post it. Okay. >> It's something for Sam to work out once she posts the report. >> I'll need to remember to send an email to Athena. >> Can we post it on the Can we Can we post
it um on our committee website and then it will set say link link at >> at committee web page something? >> That's a great idea. Yes. And then it's automatic. Does that work, Athena? >> Yep.
>> Great. Um, other comments, questions, noticated >> stuff. >> Thanks everybody. >> We'll be in touch via email to coordinate these things and I'm sure I'll see many of you at the January 5th
and January 12th meetings. Um, I will just say it has been an honor, a privilege, and more important than anything, a learning experience to chair this committee. Um, and I appreciate that. um and you all working with me and
uh making this a committee to serve on and I would like to congratulate everyone on their accomplishments because I've seen everyone put in a fair amount of work on different issues and I appreciate that and um send that message
along to Ken and Marcus who are not here as well. Uh >> amazing. So, I appreciate everyone's participation in this and I can almost guarantee that I will see you all around town somewhere because we are all
relatively civically active. So, that way >> thanks. >> Thank you, Julian. Thank you, everyone. >> Thanks everybody. >> Great working with all of you. >> Likewise. >> Thank you. And thank you. Thank you, Athena. >> Thanks, Anthony.
>> Thank you, Athena. We literally could not have done this. >> Oh my god. Yes. Thank you. >> Your expertise and also your patience. Extraordinary patience. >> Yes. >> Yes. And your patience at everything that we discuss and say and so on and so
forth and reminders you send me that I don't miss posting meetings and whatnot. So I appreciate it. >> Thanks everybody. Good team. >> Do I have a motion to dissolve not? Ah,
so moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Perfect. Great. Um, I was sure not to make or second that motion so that no one will ever get me in trouble for getting rid of our
Okay. Um, I will move on with voting. Myself, I'm an I. Andy. >> Hi, >> Erica. Hi, >> Meg. with thanks to everyone. Emmani, >> Bernie, >> thank you all. Yes, >> Raphael.
>> Thanks, folks. Yes. >> And Athena can't vote, but I'm sure she is with us. Um, >> so thank you all and uh enjoy the extra 10 minutes of your night. >> Happy happy new year everyone. >> Happy new year.
>> Happy new year. Thank you. Nice working with you