Right. Go ahead. Excellent. Hi everybody. Um, welcome to the April 24th meeting of the charter review committee. I'm glad um, we all could make it. Bernie, um, Ken and Marcus won't be able to join us tonight,
unfortunately, but um, we will be working through that. We don't have any minutes for tonight. And, uh, Raphael is going to be our minute taker. Um, so that is that. Uh, we're meeting this week.
Um, then I believe we're not meeting next week and then we're meeting the week after that. Um, just so folks understand the meeting schedule. Um, because we're going back to the every two weeks. Um, we hope you all can make that. And then, uh, I know the
subcommittee's been working on some great stuff, too. I got a few questions about other links and postings and stuff like that. Athena generally handles that. So, um, as long as you send it to her, it should get posted. And if she's
not able to for whatever reason, um, just send her a reminder email or something, I think, if that's okay with you, Athena. Um, great. Thank you. Um and yeah uh so we will we will get
started. Um I'll start since we don't have any minutes. I'll start sharing the agenda. Do you want to take attendance? Yes, I will. Um I just want to share this first. Um
I do have um it folks know. Can you all see this? Yes. Great. Um, just so folks know, this on the regular website is where it's posted. It may also be posted in the
packet, but if it's not, look here. Um, so we'll do roll call. Uh, myself, I'm here. Um, May present here. Here. Erica here. Raphael here. Andy here. Excellent. Um,
that is a quorum. We need five people and we have five people. So, unfortunately, the other folks can't be with us, but we will meet. Um, anyway, we have one member of the public. Um, if you'd like to make a comment, um, I'll allow you 3 minutes. Um, we may have
some back and forth if you'd like and, uh, you can raise your hand, um, in the meeting room. I'll let you in or press star 9 if you're on a telephone. I don't see anybody. Okay. Um, so I will now we're being pretty
efficient for the start of the meeting. Does anyone have any announcements or questions or comments before we jump right into things? Meg, I'm curious. I'm very uh grateful that Patricia is here. Are you Patricia
or Pat or Patricia? Anyway, Pat is fine. Whatever you like. and I'm wondering um what her role your role will be or we'll just you'll listen in and sort of comment here and there.
Um I I know that I'm actually on the agenda to talk about a work plan today. Um Oh, good. But um my role if I have questions I'll chime in or if anyone asks me anything along the way I'm happy to answer questions to the best of my
ability and I'm here as a resource and um also to learn a lot today because this is um since we've now have a contract um this is the first meeting that I can attend in this capacity. So I'm really looking to learn a lot from you. Thank
you. Wonderful. Thank you. Um, other questions? No. Um, okay. Uh, so outreach subcommittee, do you want to actually, let me look. Um, yeah, we
have update. So, budget extension request. Um the update is it's sealed and I believe that the Collins Center is beginning their contract and they have um they have what they need and we are
all set with the budget. Correct me if I'm wrong. Um and then uh so that gets rid of agenda five. Subcommittee. Does Erica or Mega Raphael want to give a subcommittee update? Um I
will have us have some time for um your outreach plan later in the meeting. Okay. We have several things from the outreach committee and um some of them are itemized as agenda
items and some we can just talk about. Um the outreach committee met uh yesterday. we each did some individual work and contributed it to um the the general kind of proposals that we're putting
forward. One has to do with the um revision of the the proposed town town official and staff uh survey which had originally been delegated to the outreach subcommittee. Um, we worked on
a revision based on the feedback that we got from members of the committee in previous meetings and also in written emails um uh about what might improve that survey or other approaches. Um, in our
last meeting as a large group, we had a conversation that in which uh alternatives were also included in the conversation. I see that there's an agenda item for the question of whether to proceed with an open-ended or a mixed questionnaire. I'm assuming that's
something to perhaps bring to a motion and vote. Um so I can say more about that when we get there. U but we do have a revised survey um that we're bringing as a subcommittee to the table and that is for town officials and staff. Just
want to remind and say for the sake of the minutes that the that the work on the um townwide or public survey has yet to begin in earnest and that's part of what we will be working on with the Collins Center. Um the other piece of
business that the outreach subcommittee has been working on is a proposal for a more fully fleshed out proposal for uh listening sessions for public listening sessions to or public forums or what however we were going to ultimately
refer to them. a series of events in town and virtual um to uh be facilitated by committee members and to sort of take in public feedback uh or just facilitate a
discussion on issues raised by the charter itself and the charter review and various elements of the town government. Um we have a detailed proposal to put in front here and I will get to that. The other things that the
outreach committee um subcommittee discussed were a proposal for a website uh which was sent to all members because a link can't be included in the packet but it it was sent to all
members. Um and a publicity flyer for all of the outreach committee uh activities which I was not able to include in the packet but can be discussed whenever. So of all of that
um it's so we have several proposals for a town official and staff survey on the table. One has been prepared by the by the subcommittee with feedback and revision from the committee. There's a proposal
on the table that Julian put forward. There's a proposal I believe that Andy put forward. Um, and so we have to I guess take all of that into consideration. But I just wanted to if this is the if this is the floor space
for the outreach subcommittee, I can share our version. I would just like to make a slight correction which is Bernie also put forward a form and that my form was simply different in terms of its
wording. And what we're going to be discussing first is the work is the sort of types of questions on the form not and like how whether it's a liyker scale or a yes no that sort the format of the form um and then we can discuss other
people's forms. So I just want to be clear that there's that little difference but right on. Thank you Erica May. Go ahead. Um I just note that there's on the agenda is six and seven are discussions of the questionnaire and
there's and and eight and there's no other place where we'll discuss the listening sessions. So we want to be be sure to discuss that now. The time is very short and I'm you know you know I can calm down about it but I just aware that for us to do these
before the fall we need to get going. I agree. Yep. Let's let's listen. And I think you know the more we could just start. Never mind. Okay. I'm in agreement. Let's do the listening sessions now and then have me have us
move into the form questions. So listening sessions now. Okay. So let me pull those up just a moment. I updated it this morning. Another version. Right. So that's what I'm trying to find. Just one second, please.
Yeah, there are three versions in the packet, but the one that they're they're dated. So, most I'm really sorry about that. It's all right. We met last night and then it's iterative. And then I was asked to update it and then this morning I looked at it and I realized there was anyway. Okay. It's iterative. It's
iterative. It's a great word. Doing that. Thanks for doing that, Magg. It's all good. I love ver words that have four syllables. Julian, can you take down your screen share so I can thanks? Oops. Okay. Is this the most recent version,
Meg? Uh yes because it has that heading version to be shared version to be discuss. Yeah. Okay. So this is all in the packet. So just a kind of highle
uh overview is maybe appropriate. We're proposing five outreach sessions. Um I'm going to scroll down to the actual proposal of sessions and we can go back to the questions. Um, Meg, please stop me and correct me
if I if I'm getting one of the one of the controversies is whether to have themes or not. We didn't resolve it. We had different we thought both were good ideas. So, that's one of the things to discuss. Okay. There's lots of questions that we have put forward like things still to be resolved. I just wanted to
say the overview is we're proposing five sessions. Three are virtual, two are excuse me, three are in person, one two are virtual. Um, and you can see the range of dates, some of which can be adjusted, but it's an ambitious schedule
to start with May 22nd, which I just wanted to note for the record, if we are meeting again in two weeks, that would be if we as a group are meeting in two weeks, that would be May 8th, which is exactly two weeks before the proposed
first session. Uh, the communications office needs about two weeks to put a publicity campaign into effect. So, I'm just backing us up in the time so we understand what's required to approve and move this forward um would need to
happen tonight. I also want to say that for future meetings other kinds of details options can be revised but we would love to be able to approve a set of dates and commit to them so we can start doing publicity for this group of
sessions as a kind of unit as opposed to doing oneoff um publicity campaigns. So that's one thing. Um, Meg, do you want to take us through the the overview of these questions? Sure.
Um, so following what Erica just said, we want to get this going because we're all feeling we need to get going and we need to be sure that we don't put a burden on ourselves that isn't realistic. I mean, originally we had these things
starting already, but we want to do this well. So, I just want to be sure we're realistic. So one of the controversies that we didn't agree on with or didn't was the question of whether to have themes and uh the pros of a theme are
that we would get focused discussion and the con cons are that people come the reason to have different places and different times is because people would come when it's convenient and they would bring what they're bringing which may or may not align with the themes. So we
that would be a good thing to decide tonight. We have two virtual sessions. I said they're scheduled for Thursdays. Actually, one is Tuesday. This forget that second bullet. Um because we have so much to do tonight. Given how slowly our team
operates and the lead need for leave lead time. Um are these dates realistic and what materials do we need to create not just to promote these but to have on hand? And what our subcommittee
decided last night is that we should start wherever we are of the first one and we can develop materials as we go along. So we don't have to have a lot of bells and whistles necessarily, but we do want to think a little bit about what do we want to present at these events.
Do we want to have a summary of the charter? Do we want to have a poster of some sort? Um, and again, I think what we agreed, the three of us agreed last night is, uh, let's not hold this scheduling up
because we haven't created the most perfect visual displays for this event. Uh, Sam has been really generous in offering to help with web announcements, press releases. Um Erica designed a really wonderful
poster that she could put up that we could announce all five sessions. Um so those are the the topics. The big thing is whether to have themes or not I think and whether these dates are realistic. I mean I'm we didn't agree on the
themes. I I we could each the three of us say what we think but we didn't agree on that. Yeah. Go ahead. Why not? We all say what we think on themes. I personally think themes are are a good idea. Um, but
that's just my opinion. Um, in terms of having them in terms of what they are about, I'd like to hear other people's thoughts. So, my opinion is that we don't want to have people not come because they don't have anything to say about the town manager
uh or the council or something. you know that we that we can that this is an early broad net and we can go back later to fine-tune. We just the whole point of having them in different parts of town is to appeal to different people with
whatever they bring. But that's my opinion. Raphael. Yeah, I I proposed themes just based on the sort of depth and focus and feedback we might want to receive. But but I do
hear Meg's point about it being open to everything within the charter. But but I do think if a part of those sessions are focused on specific parts of the charter or themes uh in terms of how it's organized in terms of the feedback and
information we received receive it could be targeted. Um so I'm not sure it was a controversy. I just think we didn't agree. Um so we wanted to sort of bring it to the whole group. It was definitely not a controversy. We just didn't agree.
Yeah. Yeah. And we also didn't talk about it very much because we had so much to talk about. And I would say I could go any any direction. Um I I don't mind, but I've looked at what other spaces have done, other towns have done, and some folks have approached it based
on themes or parts of the charter and they produce materials connected to it um that just sort of guide the conversations a bit. Yeah. Thank you, Andy. Um yeah, I I kind of feel like the early
ones should be open. Um and that once we have some things to run by people, then they could be themed later on, you know, when we have an interim report or if we have certain sections that were proposed, certain recommend recommended changes. But if we're going to have five
of these listening sessions, you know, I might college gets out in May. You know, this is a college town. People might not be able to make certain ones. And what if I want to talk about the town manager, but I can't make the first one.
So, so to me it might it might be a turnoff to some people for from participating as opposed to having a having more general outreach and then having another series of these in the fall when we have recommendations and they could be thematic. This currently
has themes in the proposal. Is that correct, Erica? Yes. Okay. Thanks. Um but but but the questions ask whether that's a good idea. No, I I understand. This is a draft, so it's open for discussion. So, just in the sake of
time, I think Andy and Meg have a really good point. Um, would you scroll down for a minute, Erica? Um, I would propose that we have the
um the virtual sessions be open for any discussion and the in-person sessions be in themes. How do folks feel about that? Me? Yeah, go ahead. Why are we having
them in three different locations then which is intention the intention is to attract people from South Amoris North Ammerst in the middle of town not based on themes. So in other words, why not have the virtual ones that anybody can attend
be thematic as opposed to the the reason I say is because I think that at least as this is currently proposed, I see a concern where I feel like some of the more critical ones or at least ones that are in the public limelight
right now are the ones are the themes that are being discussed in the inperson sessions. If we wanted to move and combine those themes into the virtual sessions, I'd be totally open to that. Good.
Yeah. Go ahead, Andy. Um, Erica has Sorry. Sorry. My my virtual hand thing is not working. So, go ahead, Erica, then Andy. Sorry about that. [Music] Um, I I wanted to sort of maybe not
divide them across in person and virtual, but to take the idea of a hybrid approach of some kind and consider what Andy was saying and start with a very open-ended one given that we might need to give some additional thought to how we organize themes for future
um for future sessions. I also want to say that I think there's a there's it's possible to do a kind of hybrid approach where we have some themes in mind, but we don't necessarily have to publicize them like these are the only things we're talking about tonight, so if you're not interested, don't come,
right? we can just have some have some prepared materials or sets of questions that apply to particular themes that we can use to guide the conversation so that we make sure we cover all relevant topics across the five sessions but not necessarily
uh I don't see a need necessarily to advertise that this is a this is the session where you come if you want to talk about this one particular topic so what I'm saying is first session wide open additional sessions. We organize
among ourselves some themes to guide the conversation. I agree. I think that makes a lot of sense. Um my other thought was we could devote like half of the meeting to the themes and half of the meeting to open discussion um for each meeting, but I think Erica's
proposal works just as well to accomplish the same thing. Raphael or Andy then Raphael? Uh I I I just you mentioned having some handouts and I just wanted to remind people that we we have the org chart that shows how the the government works that comes from the
charter report and then we have um a summary that I did with the help of chat GPT um that I sent out to you folks that has you know a paragraph or two on each article. So those are things that could be starting points for for handouts. The the other thing that I wanted to do is
ask Pat, you know, get get your input, Pat. You if we're doing does this kind of listening session, is this in the ballpark of doing five of these to start off and and then um you know, what's your sense on
theme versus non-the Yeah. that you can advise us? Sure. And I was going to talk a little bit more about this later, but this is a good time to bring it up. I guess I want to start with the fact that I have a lot of questions. Um because I don't want to
repeat everything that you've already been through. Um are are you intending any of these to be the public forum that's required by the charge or is this an introductory gathering of information?
I these are a series of public forums that we're it and it's one uh form of public input that we're gathering is a is a kind of gathering of people in a room or a virtual space to to have a guided discussion but there's other
public input opportunities additionally but to answer your question this meets the requirement of the charge. Okay. Um, so what I'm going to talk a little bit about in a work plan, um, frame of mind
is, um, I really like the idea of the first one being open, um, and the subsequent ones might be, um, I think traditionally you'll you'll find that there's public input um, in various areas of the charter once you've looked
at, you know, that there's a general upfront. I'm just getting ideas and information. And then as you start to work through the charter, you're going to come up with some more specific ideas that you're going to want specific input on. So, I think it will start out rather
broad, and I think it's a great idea to be open in the beginning. Um, but at the same time, as we move along, you may find that you have some more very specific questions that you want to open it up to the public. So, um I love the
idea of having these set out the dates firm and perhaps leave the themes um for closer to the actual meetings so that you can see where you're at in your thoughts and deliberation and what other input you've
received. But but what I do like about this in general, I think the themes are probably along the way of the traditional way that you would start looking at the charter. So they're in a good order as they are, but um I'm not
sure where you'll be at at the time of each of these. Absolutely. I I really agree. I think that um that it would be great to have like the first one or two be open and then some of the others be topic specific. Um Raphael, you had
your hand up. I wanted to give you the opportunity to speak. I was going to ask Pat if she could just share her thoughts about sessions advice. So fine. Thanks. Great. Thank you. Um Megan and then I'd like to just for the sake of time wrap
this up into a So if we have the first one or two be open and then develop the themes based on what we've heard. Maybe we don't want to announce the themes of the third, fourth, and fifth when we do this publicity. Just would make it simpler just to have that's what I'm
proposing. Yeah, I agree with Erica's proposal. That makes sense. Okay, Raphael, I I think the subcommittee in terms of like what was proposed and what we would like like feedback about or an okay connected
to dates okay and also participation from the whole board. I don't know if that was raised but um we talked about during that during the subcommittee. Great. Um who's involved in this process? Yeah, thank you Raphael. I
forgot to mention that. But I'm sorry, what was the last point? I I did didn't hear you. Who's involved? Um remember we talked about should all committee members be involved? Who can contribute to this? So we wanted to talk about that here. Yeah,
Erica, would you like to make a motion? Um I would like to make a motion. I think Raphael raised an important point in our subcommittee and has brought it here and that is the the question of like when we're when the subcommittee is delegated something to do and we're
bringing back a proposal and it's multifaceted. [Music] Um there are there are parts to this proposal that have to do with dates and times and us all agreeing on those. There are more esoteric questions about
themes and content and all of that. And it's a there's in part there's a there's an interesting question for the committee to think about and I hesitate to really do it with three members missing tonight but a question about like if we're delegating things out what
is the relationship of the committee to the subcommittee and and bringing things back for a vote which is I think the the basic structure we're following but um we run the risk of going back to the drawing board quite a bit without
clarifying that relationship. ship. So I can make a motion because I want us to move forward. I want to make a motion about these particular um uh sessions. Um but I think I would like to
I'm we're raising that because I think it's worth talking about as a larger group is that relationship going forward. Excellent. Andy. Oh. Yeah. I I feel like um you know you got you folks the subcommittee has done a lot
of thinking about this stuff but but the when it comes to the sessions I think we should all plan to you know be there or be you know or divvy up the work as far as helping facilitate or you know uh you know being at tables or whatever
the kinds of you know leg work that needs to happen at the sessions and I don't think that just because you folks are the the subcommittee that um has been thinking about this that you have to do all the all the work too. I think that would be tremendously unfair. So um
thank you. And so and it may be that you know yeah I I don't when you get into the bigger question about how what's the relationship of the subcommittee to the the committee I mean the committee should be
um should be the ones you know approving things and doing as much work as possible in a full group. You know I I I hate to have you guys feel like the whole burden's on you. Thank you. Andy if I could just quickly respond. I know Raphael has his hand up, but thank you
for that. And I think that it's a question of like we bring up proposal as an example. It's a complicated thing. There's dates, there's locations, there's there's the question of themes, there's a question of who's going to facilitate. Um I'm I don't think we're going to take a vote on each one of
those things because the subcommittee's done an extensive amount of of thinking about those things. We're we're raising up the biggest issues, right, so that we can get committee approval. And I think that's the kind of that's the kind of thing that sometimes gets a little bit murky. It's great to have full committee
participation in the actual running of these things. I don't think it's delegated in the sense of running it. It's been delegated in the sense of some some thinking, planning, proposing in detail. Well, um Raphael,
yeah, I just wanted to follow what Erica shared in terms of just process. um in terms of the process moving forward the subcommittee in terms of proposal approval and moving forward. I think to me we need to be clear about that.
Excellent. Andy. Yeah, I think it um I don't know if you're spec specifically referring to the the survey process, but you know, clearly you guys have been working on a survey and now we have three other you know, ideas for surveys and it's kind of like
um but I you know I think that's an important tool and it's kind of like if you know how do how do [Music] we in in this case I think this is as far as the listening session I think it's working the the the thinking and
then the discussion is working the way it should and we're coming up with a general approval of the dates and the idea that we're going to have you know these five and and we'll figure out the rest with the survey. I I think it's a
you know I don't know how to say what you know how to improve that process but it feels like I think if you're on the committee and you're not on the subcommittee and and you have ideas that that you feel strongly about how how do you inject them without feeling like you're
ignoring the subcommittee's work which is not the case. I don't I I don't know what the answer is, but yeah. Thank you, Andy, Raphael. And then I I I'm just recognizing the time. I'd like us to make a motion and move on to our next agenda item so that Pat has
time for our presentation before 8:00. Raphael. Yeah, I won't spend too much time on this, but I think in terms of like that uh survey sort of process, I I actually think we could work a bit smarter um in terms of for instance
proposal put forth recommendations offered to the subcommittee. we come back with the revised work and we might have to go back to the drawing board, but I think like three separate surveys produced by three different groups in
this space to me is just I I think we could do things a little differently. I I would tend to agree. Raphael me, do you have a motion to make? U first I have a a question. For this to happen, somebody needs to start calling Yeah.
Crocker Farm and the survival center and our committee, you know, this whole 48 hours thing. We just have to be sure just logistically that we can do this. I don't know if we have a I mean, I'm happy to make some calls and try to
do things, but none of us should be doing this unilaterally. So just noting uh if we if if someone makes a motion to approve the schedule, somebody needs to get in gear, you know, to sweet. That's means right
away. Erica has her hand up. Julian, you're muted, but I'm gonna assume you said Go ahead. Yes, go right ahead. Um, so, um, I would like to have the this this issue return for discussion, feeling the time pressure.
So, I'm going to go ahead and make a motion, but I would like to request that this issue be put on the agenda for um the next meeting so that we can uh just clarify our process a little bit more when with the full committee attendance.
I'm going to make a motion that um we are proposing five listening sessions on the dates as included in the proposal with the first session being open an open discussion without an organized
theme but with some organized notes. Um and that the facilitation will be shared across these five sessions between the subcommittee and other members of the larger committee. That's my motion. Raphael, do
you got that? I do. Thank you. Um I'll second that motion. Um so now we're going to vote. Don't we have discussion? Sure. We just had discussion, but the vote.
The motion I'm going to raise my hand. Go ahead. I second the motion. Um, so if we're not going to decide about these dates until the 8th of May, that's two weeks before the first one. If we're not even I'm sorry, Meg, to step on you. No,
no, go ahead. My motion My motion includes the dates that are proposed here. Okay. But do we are we planning to do them on those dates? Are we waiting till May 8th to commit to it? That's what I just wanted that clarification. On those dates, that's what the motion
means. Yeah. What What are we doing on May 8th? We're having a meeting on May 8th, right? Um Okay. I'm going to move us to
voting. Maybe I didn't understand your question, Meg. What are we doing? What are we waiting? You said I I just want to understand your the the motion which is to do something at our next meeting May 8th. No, no. My motion is is along
the lines of this proposal that we're all looking at is simply to say we are committing to have five listening sections on about these exact dates that are proposed here. Two of which are virtual, three of which are in person. The first one being an open-ended
discussion with uh some thematic content for the remaining four TBD and that that's what we're committing to by voting. Okay, great. Okay. Um so and any other
questions? Great. Um Erica, yes. Myself, I'm an I. Um Andy, yes. Uh Raphael, yes. And Maggie, yes. Great. Excellent. That's been approved.
Thank you all. Um so now any other anything from the outreach subending questions, discussion? Um there are other there are other topics that I raised with the report out on the subcommittee. Um I have the sense
that you want to get to the survey. Um so should we go there next? Yeah, let's go there next. Um but I think like we don't need to take action on everything the outreach subcommittee does, but we got a good
update. So I um the open-ended or mixed questions. So basically I proposed a form with with mixed questions um as in some open-ended some scaled and Erica proposed a form
with only open-ended questions and then Andy and Bernie proposed different forms with also only open-ended questions. Um we what we are first deciding is not
whose form to choose but is simply um basically what we're deciding is I mean it could decide whose form to choose simply because it is about the uh like it's about the the way the
questions work and different forms have different questions but it's it's about what questions we're asking not about the forms themselves. um and how we're asking those questions. So, I'm thinking I'm going to go about it a little differently. I'm going to
ask for us to make a motion and then discuss it. That way, we don't accidentally overlap ourselves with two discussions at once. Um, so I will Yeah, Andy, go ahead.
I move that we uh use an open-ended format for our survey. Mang. Um, I'll second that. I was going to slightly ch amend something you said, Julian, which is that it wasn't just Erica proposed it, but our committee
supported it. The whole Well, I'll second Andy's motion. Thank you. It wasn't just Erica. The three of us discussed it and didn't have time to go through all the different We have questions, comments on Andy's motion.
I don't see any. Um, let's vote on it. Um, Meg, yes. Erica, yes. Raphael, yes. Andy, yes. I'm an I. Um, so we'll use an
open-ended format. Um, so we agreed at the last meeting to use Google Forms. Now we get to choose. We did I believe no I don't I think that was that was not
Google form but to use Google form as a platform didn't we agree to that I I think Marcus suggested that and then he withdrew his oh maybe he did okay um then we have to figure that out tonight as well um Erica go ahead that's what I
was going to say that that issue was t part of what was tabled at the end of the discussion sorry about my confusion. Um I uh then let I'm going to make the motion that we not use my specific Google form
but use Google forms as the platform for the survey. I have a second. Um I'll second that for the purpose of discussion. Yep. Raise your hand. We can discuss. Go right ahead. Um
Yep. Go ahead, Andy. Um, I um I I I understand that um the um format the um and I forget the name it something table was it air table is a is a robust platform that allows you to do a lot of
different things. Um, but I I I think that at the level we're working, you know, and with busy uh staff and and officials that something more familiar would be more likely to get answered. And so I'm
willing to, you know, to sacrifice the the nuance of the of the tool in order to get a a slightly more um you know, maybe to goose the response rate. And because people are familiar with the format and it's easy. Um I I
think that the kinds of questions we're asking in general either we can produce several different Google forms for the different populations or we can produce questions that are general enough. Um or we can use logic in Google forms to say
if you're a counselor, you know, you get these questions. So I just I I find the format friendlier and you know when I first you know logged in to look at at this I was asked whether I wanted to join Air Table and it was just a little bit confusing and if I'd been you know
the town manager if I'd been the the public works manager I might have just been like I don't have time right for this right now and it might have gotten lost. So that's my my bias. I I would tend to agree Andy Erica um a couple of things. One is the the
the fact that you had to to log in was a was an error and a fluke of how the link got distributed in my absence. It had nothing to do with it. The last thing I would want to do by proposing a different platform is create a technological hurdle for anybody in
answering the survey. So just to be clear, it's a link. It's a simple link. You click on it and it shows up as a form just like Google form does. um it uh does not require setting up an account, a login or any other barrier to
entry at all. It's just a it's just a web link. Um that's just to be really clear. So, um, the part of my part of my reasoning for creating it, for trying to kind of talk
up the possibility of doing conditional questions and which is something that I set up in the revised version of the air table that I sent out to everybody, is that we had a lengthy discussion about the need for tailoring a little bit the questions to
uh, town council versus town other kinds of town staff for for example and sort of tailoring some of the language and the nature of the questions to those different audiences and I've I've found a way to do that within the platform that I was working within. I'm not I
have I'm not saying whether that can be done or not within Google forms. That's not my my point. But um if that's I if that's less important then we're going to write general questions to your point Andy more general
questions just so that we can have a single a single link a single survey a single sort of push out then that differentiating factor for air table doesn't matter as much but if that still matters that we want to do slightly more tailored
um sets of questions for for like a subset of, you know, our audience, then maybe it does matter. So, I just wanted to raise that. It's not like it's technological bells and whistles. It's just for like for their own sake. It's just that if there's a a feature that
helps us do a tailored approach, maybe it's worth considering. And in the end, each one of them is going to dump the results into their own form of a spreadsheet that we can then work with and look at and read and analyze. So ultimately, you know, we have good
possibilities in both directions. I am familiar with this one and so and I feel like it has it has some selling points, but like it starts to feel uncomfortable to sell a technological platform as if I have some vested interest. I don't. I just feel like it has some some
um substantive, you know, differences that make it worth considering as a difference, not just like what which one I like better. That's all. Yeah, I would just say at least for me myself, I had a lot of trouble
accessing. As I said, that was a a fluke of how because I wasn't in the meeting to put it up on the screen and demonstrate it is a simple link with no barrier. And sorry for the back and forth, but isn't like the idea
that you would have to demonstrate in the meeting how to access it part of what I'm saying with the barrier here, or are you saying you wouldn't need to demonstrate that to a member of the public? There's no need to demonstrate. It's a it's just a link. Just like a Google form would be a link that would
appear on a form, a poster, flyer. Okay. Okay. Um anyway, I'll move to a vote. Um, wait, what's what's the question? Other questions? The motion that I believe I made and Andy seconded was to adopt
Google Forms as the platform that we use. Um, Raphael. Um, so Erica shared more about this platform and the approach with the subcommittee. Some of that was shared here. I I think familiarity of folks
here might be why you lean towards the Google platform, but I think maybe it's worthwhile for folks to hear or explore a little further. Yeah, I I think um the things that I heard from Erica in the
subcommittee meeting seem appealing to me and um I don't know folks um would want to do that research or you just feel or folks here feel like I'm just leaning into the comfortability of
Google and the assumption that most people are familiar with that platform and that's why we're you might lead in that direction. That's where I am personally, Raphael, to answer your question. Okay. Um, I can't speak for anyone else, Andy.
Yeah, I I I get, you know, if if it's just a link, I get that it's functionally it's functionally the same. You're getting a form that looks like a survey and it's it's in Air Table format as opposed to in Google Forms format. But if it's just a survey, it's a
survey. Um, I guess, you know, part of the thing I've been struggling with is how differentiated do we need to have the the various surveys and do can we can we basically find a way to have people identify what sector they're in but basically ask the same kind of questions
or do we really want to go deeper on I mean or do ask different kinds of questions for different populations. I I I get that we talked about that some last meeting. I I'm I'm just thinking in this in this initial outreach that we could probably ask some fairly general questions of everybody and then have
them identify themselves and then we don't need the you know the functionality that you're talking about. But if if it's you know I I don't feel that strongly about the technology. I think I was just feeling like um I I I've seen Google
forms, you know, I had the experience with that the link that was different. If it's just I get a link, I click on it, I take a survey, then it doesn't really matter to me what format we use. I sort of feel similarly to Andy. Um other questions before we vote on my
motion. Could you say your motion again? Um the motion was I'm Raphael. Did you write it down? Uh I just put that you your motion was to use Google form for the town uh staff uh foot of survey.
Yeah. Thank you. Um other discussion before we vote. Go right ahead. Pat, thank you. Obviously I'm not voting and um I don't have a huge preference as far as the software. I'm just wondering
if you're going to have any sort of um downloadable PDF version or something where people who might not have access to technology or um good access to technology um could fill it out by hand
or just typing in a PDF. We'll make sure that's available most definitely. Um, and it can like on Google forms I'll I can upload it as a PDF to be posted to the website pretty much automatically. So, that's a great question.
Um, I know that in I know that in ER Erica had in her version it had if you would like to type into a PDF and upload it here, you can. Yeah, we could get a printed version of that as well. So, the answer is yes. That's a great question. Um, okay. I'm going to move us to
voting. myself. I'm an I. And Andy, I I really don't have a strong feeling. Uh I I'd kind of like to defer to the people who've been working on this harder. So even though I seconded it, I think I'm going to say no. Okay, Meg. I'm a no. I'm torn between abstaining
and a no because I'm not I'm the least technologically savvy person here. But yeah, I was impressed by Erica's presentation, so I'm a no. Raphael. No. Okay, Erica. Um, I was going to abstain because I
created the thing, but um, but the other thing I wanted to the other thing I wanted to say before we conclude this vote is that the three out of the five people who are present at this meeting are in the subcommittee. So, I don't know if that if that it
weighs in one direction because we've we've had, you know, extensive conversations ongoing about it in the in the subcommittee, right? Well, theoretically we could we can end up with a tie, which would mean it would fail anyway. So, yeah, we only have
eight of us, so go sub go subcommittee. Um, so now comes the more serious question, which is of Erica's Andes or um Bernie's wording, whose wording do we want to adopt? Um, I'm again going to make the motion. Um, or Erica, go ahead.
Just to clarify, I didn't get a a full um survey from Bernie, I got some some some feedback in the form of like a sample question and I incorporated that feedback as well as Andy's feedback as well as Raphael's in the in my version.
So I I didn't did was there a survey sent from Bernie? I believe it was just the feedback. I could be wrong. Okay. So um Raphael. Yeah, I think Julian in terms of what we're trying to do at the subcommittee is
this questionnaire is from the subcommittee. Um so we work Erica's lead. Um but we feel like we're pushing forward this questionnaire from the subcommittee. I Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I move to adopt the subcommittee's open-ended questionnaire.
Second. Great. um discussion Andy, there are a few things on the on the questionnaire that you know language things like when some of I
didn't understand the option for committee or library trustee. I wasn't sure if we were lumping all the committees together or if it was school committee and library trustee or or what. So, if there are some if we have some suggestions for language or for
groupings, um I I would hope they'd be considered. Um and then and I and then I just, you know, I
I'm feel like by choosing certain themes and, you know, we're we're picking winners in terms of what gets talked about. And so, you know, the the when you get into more detail and say the this isn't this isn't a an exhaustive list, but here's some things you might
want to think about, I was like, I think we ought to be if there was a way to be more um non-leading and say, here are the sections of the charter. This one talks about the legislative. This one talks about the, you know, executive. This one
talks about the budget. Um, and we could maybe have a link to a summary or to the charter somehow that they could consult if they really wanted, you know, a little eye, you know, information thing. I just I worry a little bit about that we're only asking about certain things
and not others. So, yeah, I don't know how to deal with that. Um, and that's why I went I went very generic and uh, but you know, as sort of a, you know, exhibit A of, you know, what what I was
worried about. So, you know, I I I think I don't know exactly how people are going to answer this. I think in in some people will send us fivepage letters and already have and other people will be like fill in one box and say, you know, I want a mayor or something and
then so I guess I'm just trying to figure out I'm in, you know, I appreciate the effort. I'm just wondering if we're hitting all the right boxes, but and we could talk separately about how we deal with things like a
subcommittee and a full committee and if people have strong opinions, should they join the subcommittee? But then do we end up with just a full committee discussion? I I you know, I don't know. So, um, Raphael, yeah, Andy, we we looked at the survey that you put forth last night and we
vacasillated about or I did about which approach um I'm on the fence, but I think like the specificity that's offered in the subcommittee's open response surve in that part of the survey, I appreciate that. And I think
we adapted the latter end in terms of like if you have other things to share. I think we added a list of things for folks to think about. So we went I went back and forth about which approach but um we we looked at what you shared last
night. Excellent, Erica. Yeah, Andy, I hear all of that. Um, and I I also am on the fence about in the in the lower section of the um of the uh
the survey that I that I worked on that that we discussed as a subcommittee um where I added a little bit of detail from the charter in various kind of organized themes. Um I'm on the fence about that. I think for a certain kind
of user it's going to be appealing as a sort of anchoring thing like not just general comments but some specific questions and for another kind of user it's going to be like feel too demanding and just be skipped over. We discussed the alternative of making it just a list
you know like with a list of but other topics you might want to discuss and here's a big box in which to put them if you want to. Um which is also fine. I have no problem with that. Um, I think that the the problem you identified, which is some people are just gonna just
gonna give a a very abbreviated answer and skip the rest, is going to be an an issue. And it's probably going to be an issue with our public survey as well. Um, and I think I'd be even more concerned there about overloading people with big, you know, big heavy boxes to
fill out. But the real challenge that I'm that I'm feeling right now is that I I have a general sense that we have some consensus on this kind of survey and and and the audiences that we're
addressing. Um but that if we want to make additional um additional tweaks, you know, we we want to have this ready for in time for a publicity campaign for our listening sessions and and so on, even though those are two different audiences. We
want to kind of launch this in the in the wild. We need to do some some testing and that's going to have to happen before our next meeting which is May 8th. We're going to have to do a little bit of uh testing even among ourselves of this
thing. I'll make it live and we should fill it out as if we were um the intended audience. I just wanted to add to your question about the committee and trustee. It's just meant to capture anyone who falls into any committee or trustee role as different from an
elected official and different from uh other kinds of town staff and employees. Me, you're muted. Me, you're muted. Thank you. I agree with Erica and also with Andy. I think we should see this as a
first step. We need a good enough survey, not the most, you know, we may want to go back because of things that we hear or read in this survey. This might be just think of this as stage one,
Andy. Um, yeah, I guess I I I I see school committee and the trustees as being different because they're elected and and then, you know, all the other committees are appointed and and volunteer and so there might be a might
be a difference there. I don't know. I don't know if it's interesting or not, but it might be good to know. might be the same questions, but and then I'm wondering if we could just have the general public none of the above that, you know, category and use the same survey, you know, and and and send
people a link and if it's going to be if they're from the general public and they click that, they get the they get whatever version of the G, you know, is it all one survey with five different things with inside it or are we doing a completely different survey for the general public?
Mhm. I if I can answer that. Um, if I'm if I can channel Bernie for a second, I think one of one of uh the thrust of what Bernie's argument was was that people who live and work with within the town government and with the the the um
the limitations and the allowances of the charter as it's written are the are have a different kind of lived experience of it um as opposed to the sort of general population. And that's why I think he he sort of started us down the road towards this very specific
um tool. But I think I I'm taking your point. I'm writing down that the difference between school committee and trustees versus other kinds of committees and that differentiating thing that may be interesting to look at later. So I'm I'm making a note of that. But I'm not sure this would work for a general
audience without subree tooling. And I guess my I'm sorry I forgot one one other point which was can we run this by the Dan who institute and get their feedback quickly to before we put it out in the field. Did you mean another I mean the Colin Center? Sorry.
Yes. I'd be I mean it by the Colin Center. Um okay. Did we make a motion to adopt Erica's or are we just still discussing? You you made a motion. It was seconded.
Do you want to adopt Erica's? I'd like to revise that to adopt Erica's subject to the review by the Collins. Okay. And then if we could vote on that. Could could I ask a question before we vote? Um Pat, is that is that uh
agreeable to you that we would send you the survey and you would get us feed, you know, give give us your feedback on it in some reasonable amount of time? Absolutely. Um I'm happy to give you my feedback. Um and you know, I I don't have the survey. I haven't looked at it.
Um, for example, just listening, I think I think it makes sense to talk about elected versus appointed officials, you know, and if if you're looking at, you know, asking different questions for each. Um, but I would love to have a little time to talk to you about it and
look at it, but I'm happy to give you my feedback. Um, it's really up to you as to whether um you just want to give Erica the um give the the outreach team the authority to take the feedback,
incorporate it, and start testing. Um, you know, because they're going to have to I'll make suggestions, but they're going to have to make decisions on what they want to incorporate or what's going to work best for you and what you're looking for. I'd be comfortable with that. Yeah. Awesome.
Um, I guess we'll start voting. Myself, I'm an I. Um, Raphael, yes. Meg, yes. Erica, yes. Andy, yes. Excellent. Thank you all. So, that approves, reviews, and
approves our um public outreach questionnaire. And now we will I'll turn it over to you Pat to present um your work plan and um potentially a start date for some reviewing and that sort of stuff. Um and then if we have time left
afterwards, we'll have a short discussion on the budget coordinating group, but if not, um we won't and that's totally fine, too. Great. So, um I'm going to put up just a couple of slides. Um I don't know, there's seven
slides. is just to keep me on track. Go right ahead. And and I'm really hoping that this is really an interactive um presentation because, you know, I really want to hear from you what your interests are and what your needs are and what your thoughts are before we
start putting together a work plan. So, this is very a very preliminary and I haven't even put in any dates in. Um I just want to talk some things through with you to get an idea of where you're at and where you're going. So, um I'm going to share.
Excellent. Go right ahead. Thank you. Um May, you had a question real quick. Well, just we didn't um another thing the outreach committee discussed that we don't have time for, but I just want to acknowledge it is the proposal to have a website, a special website. Yeah, that
can be on a future agenda. We don't have time for that tonight. I don't Yeah, I just wanted to put that out there. Um we've been busy. Yes, you also have the town the town has like its own website for it. So I don't Right. But we we're we have reasons why we think we might
want to create our own. But that's another discussion. I just want to be sure it's it's noted that that's something we're bringing that we've discussed and we're bringing that's future agenda planning. But yeah, that sounds good. Um and uh
sorry. No, that's okay. Um, Erica has left. Is that correct? Nope, I'm here. Just had to go off camera for a minute. No problem. Excellent. Um, go ahead, Pat. Sorry to interrupt. So, um hopefully I'm what I'm sharing
with you is just a um very brief PowerPoint. So, do you see something that says charter review work plan discussion? I can. Awesome. just making sure I'm not sending photos of my kids or something instead. Um, oh, I'd like
to see that. So, um, you have had so many presentations about your charge and the scope and you had a wonderful presentation by KP Law. So, I don't want to repeat all of those things. Ordinarily, I would be going through all of um you know, your charge
and but I I do want to go back to your charge because it for a little bit because what it does, it really tells us what you need to accomplish and how long you have to accomplish it. Um so the scope that was given is um starts with
understanding mass law in the home room rule charter, raising public awareness, um developing feedback, analyzing feedback, holding a public forum and reviewing, proposing a and reporting on
the process, deliberations, drafts and recommendations in three stages. Um, and so we talked a lot about the public geek outreach right now. Um, I want to get a sense from you of how much you've talked about this understanding
your own home rule charter and understanding what it says. Um, and where you're at as far as your reports and what you want to need, what you want done in what order so that we can create a good work plan for you. Um there you
really have three deliverables. Um an initial report and and this is from the the this is from the charge but I want to understand your understanding of whether this has changed timing etc. Um because it's hard to tell for just from
the paperwork. Um you have an initial report with draft changes to the charter, a preliminary report with recommended changes um showing a comparison which essentially a um track
changes um of with respect to the present language and a final report with recommended changes including both a comparison of the recommended changes and the reasons for the recommendation. So you have three stages. So my question
for you is what is your understanding with respect to the initial report with draft changes? Um is that a verbal report? Um is that a written report and do
you know at what point do you think that it is it required to have the draft changes? Have you had any further discussions on that? Um, does someone want to answer that question? I'm not completely sure I have a great answer. Has anyone talked about
when you might get, you know, what your timing is, when you might want to get this done, Andy? Well, we we did have a discussion about I mean it took a while to get to get going to get us scheduled for our preliminary meeting our initial
meetings and then you know it's been a it's been a ongoing thing. So we we have gotten approval to extend our timeline to is it the end of October I believe right for the final. And so working backwards from there we I think we were
thinking that the initial you know the preliminary might be I think we were thinking that the initial would be somewhere in the late summer early fall. Is that right? I and then and then the preliminary would be somewhere
midpoint between that and the final deadline. and then we'd we'd have the final report. So, my understanding is that they would all be written and that we would be submitting them to the council. That's that was my assumption. Yeah, that sounds right. We didn't put firm dates on it, but Andy's general
description sounds about right to me. We also haven't picked a time when we're actually going to start looking over the charter and making those edits. So, I feel like that's sort of the next step in the process. Okay. And and we'll talk about that. Um and it may be it sounds
like the intent is the initial report is just here's some draft changes, here's some ideas. Um the preliminary report is this is where where we've built consensus that we will be recommending these changes and the final report will
be we've made this decision. These are the changes we recommended and here is why. Um, is is that your understanding of what you think these stages might be? If Yeah, that sounds right to me,
Annie. Okay. Um, one thing we did was um, initially we we recognize that there are certain things we can do uh, we can recommend that are within the scope of the initial charge. And then there are other things that we're going to hear that may be outside of our scope. But we
figured that in this town it would make sense for us to um to notice you know what what people are suggesting whether it's you know requires a heavier lift or not. So we may end up with a preliminary report that has recommended changes that we think the council can accomplish with
with you know either by itself or with local vote and then additional things that we heard about um from the community that might require either legislative action or or or a new charter commission. But we're not going to rule things out just because I think what we said in our letter was that we
wouldn't rule things out just because they were beyond the scope of a of a limited charter review. Yes. And that absolutely makes sense. Um there may be some gray areas whether something would require a you know
legislative act versus just you're able to do it routinely. Um but it it sounds like you know you're really in contact with KP Law and you may you know you can make your recommendations and um the council will decide you know what avenue
those have to have to take. Um but the kind of the good news about this um you may make it sounds like um to me and you can you can tell me if this has changed but the general scope is to at least
keep the same form of government. So I don't think we're going to have to spend months discussing you know do we go back to representative town meeting. I mean the form of government um seems to
be the same in your scope although you may have some tweaks um that you want to rec recommend that may require special acts. So um that makes your timetable a little more doable that you're not opening it up to this.
Um, so I want to talk a little bit about the work plan and what we're going to have to get through between now and October so that we can um we can go back and we can make some suggestions. Okay. The current deadline is October 2025. Um, which if you meet
twice a month um or a little bit more gives you maybe 10 or 12 regular meetings. um assuming that there will be weeks you can't meet because of holidays or or um you don't have a quorum etc. Um outside of your regular meetings, you're
going to be having these public input meetings um which it sounds like the five that your schedule will include the required public forum. Um, you may decide closer to the end um to have and
we'll we'll talk about this a little more um to have an something that's a little closer to your final report um for some final tweaks and final input before your final report. Um and you
talked a lot I had a lot of questions about the status of your public input and what you talked about today really helped me with that because I can understand where you're at. Um, but it's important to understand that the public input process is dynamic. So, it's not I'm getting it's not about I'm getting
public input. I'm doing I'm running off and doing all these things and then I'm issuing my report. There are going to be points along the way where you're going to want additional public input as you get more and more focused on what issues you decide that you're going to um focus
on and possibly make changes. So, it's going to be dynamic. Um, and so because it's dynamic along the way, I don't know that it makes sense to wait until public input is finished completely before you
start diving into at least familiarizing yourself with the charter and starting to talk about at what types of things can be or should be changed. So, it may be a little more of a dialectic where you're talking about you're you're getting public input. Um, you're talking
about some charter sections, you're getting some more public input, and you're talking about some more. Um, and to that end, I wanted to look at the fact, um, your current charter has 10 articles. Uh, it sounds
like I'm not sure how much your committee has gone into each of these articles. Perhaps some of some of you have done it on your own to kind of talk a little bit about what does each what do each of these articles
um have to tell us and what are potential issues to talk about within each. So I think it will even inform your public input sessions to understand a little bit about you know what is in this charter and what what kinds of
changes can we actually make in a charter versus changes that might be more appropriately made by ordinance or by um council rules or some other avenue. Um, so keeping in mind that the charter has
10 articles, um, you may, what we may want to start to do is to do quick runthroughs of some of these, um, articles so you understand what's in them. Um, so that you have a jumping off point to talk about, you know, what are
some what to get public input and talk about what are what are the some some of the changes that you might want to make. Okay. Um, typically in a, you know, this this particular charge that you have is very public input forward. It's putting
a lot of the public input at the beginning and I think that's great to get a lot of it in the beginning, but I also think it's a good idea to spread your public input out a little bit along the process. So, um, and simultaneously as you're going work
through these charter se SE sections, um, I'm I'm wondering what your system is going to be. Um, what's really interesting to me is that you have had so much um, you know, I've read the newspaper articles. I've I've looked at
some of, you know, the prior public input and the prior sessions. You have had a lot of input. I'm wondering if there is some way that you're compiling what you already know. Um it sounds like you're getting some emails too. Um do
maybe you can tell me a little bit about that. Um have you have you been getting emails? Do you have a um charter review committee email process and people are sending in questions? Megan and Andy? Yes, we have a the town website has a a place where people can
comment and Andy and I uh went through and listed them all and then Bernie organized them into categories and it's quite extensive. I can't remember what is it Andy like a hundred comments so far. Yeah, 85 anyway. 85. Yeah, it's and
they're with thanks to Bernie's uh use of AI, they're all in categories. I think it's attached to the materials for this meeting. Okay. Um, which is fantastic because as we're going along, you're going to be building the information
that you're going to want to put in your report. So, um, the more you can do that as you go along, um, the less ownorous it's going to be at the end to suddenly say, well, here's my reasons why we want to make these changes, you'll already
have the ability to say, this is what we've heard from people along the way. So, maintaining a compilation of what you're hearing so far is really important. Um, so I just wanted to add that people are making comments based on their experience. I'm sort of
reinforcing what Andy said. So they may or may not comment on things that are related specifically to the charter. Like they might say, "I submitted my name for a committee and I never got a call back or um whatever." Those things are also important to to note. In other
words, we don't want to say to someone, "Well, that's not part of the charter. That's just how the town administration operates." we're we're open to whatever people have to say. Well, and that's fantastic and and I think that a lot of that can be included
in your report. Um at least even as an attachment of here here is a list of some of the things that people had. Um but in your discussions you might want to say are there any systems that could be put in place that would you know are
there any charter level systems that would at least address the themes that I'm hearing whether it's responsiveness or transparency those things are important data points even if they're not
necessarily um structurally a structural issue. Um, it certainly helps develop the themes and see what might be included in a charter and what might want to make recommendations for something some other
avenue to look at. Yeah. Okay. Um, so typically, like I said, we would we would talk about general public input, work through the charter sessions, get additional input as we go along. Um, including the public forums.
Um, sometimes along the way, it's a good idea to take some straw polls to understand is this an issue that anyone even feels strongly about looking into. Um so that and and it doesn't necessarily mean it's a final decision
but um it's helpful as we'll work through the charter you can say oh does anyone think it's a good idea to spend more time looking at X um and then we can spend some time on it or you can choose to say you know let's put a pin on this pin in this and and put it in
the report as something to look at at at a later time. Um so um it's it's really going to be a fluid process. Um and and even if you make these decisions um if we need to revisit articles, you know, we're we may not necessarily go through
each section each of the 10 articles and say that's it, we're done with one, we're moving on. Um a later article may impact an earlier one and we may need to go back and look at it again. So, it's a dynamic process and it's a lot to get
done in the weeks that you have. Um, but some will be easier than others. Um, some some sections are just introduction or general boilerplate legal ease. Um, others others might you might need to revisit in greater detail. Um, some you
may decide, oh, that is that is something that would definitely require um that would definitely require a special act. Um, so we're not going to take the time to look at it right now, but we'll definitely put in our report that this is something that PE someone
should look at. Um, so it's really going to be a dynamic process. Can I just ask or just interject since you you wanted um conversation? Um, I really like the idea of going through the um the articles and and
familiarizing ourselves with them and doing that in a in a structured way and you know get knocking off a couple each meeting or something like that. Um, and then I also uh appreciate your focus on the fact that we need to have a public forum on our recommendations. So it's
really the preliminary report. We need to have a a forum on that. So I I think what we've been focused on a lot is that we didn't want to prejudge what should be changed until we did a lot of input gathering. So we've been focused on figuring out how we're going to gather
input. But as you say, we're we are already gathering input and we could we can figure out ways of and figure out ways to identify themes in doing that as we go along. But um yeah, I I appreciate that. And maybe if you could help us,
you know, structure agendas for upcoming meetings to say, "All right, you want to we'd like to get through articles one and two in this meeting and then you know what else needs to happen and then three and four in the next one or however you think just to help us with the timing."
Yeah, thank you Andy. I just want to say I completely agree with you and Pat and I think that um I'll meet with Pat soon and we'll discuss how to structure that next committee agenda maybe next week. Um, but that I think it would be an
excellent idea to start methodically reviewing the sections and discussing them and that sort of thing and that um the Collins Center could help us um facilitate that um the first or second times that we do it um so that the committee can get used to doing it. I've
been trying to do that for a little while and I think the Colin Center can give us a great jump start on it. So, thank you Andy. Um other questions, comments, committee feedback. Um may um just on the deadline, I certainly don't want this to go on and
on forever, but having been two of us uh Pat were on the charter commission itself, Andy and I, we had a firm deadline that was this report must be done by this point. Our reading of the deadline is that we have to give a
report but not necessarily finish the work. I say that not wanting it to go on and on. It'd be great if it ended in October, but my I think our understanding is the deadline is a little more flexible than it was with a charter commission,
you know, and and certainly under a charter commission, an elected charter commission has very strict deadlines. Um and and also um now that you have a council form of government, you don't have that whole push, I need to get this
done before the next town meeting warrant, right? So um things are a little more fluid for you. Um but it's also good to keep in mind a um you know, at least a theoretical end date so that we're working towards a goal and like we
have a we have a life, right? because you know you're you're going you may you know some people may lose interest in time or they have other activities that they've plan to start you know in December and um so it's really good to
at least work towards a goal and definitely when you get to October your the bulk of the work is done even if you still have a few drafting issues to tidy up or or um have some additional questions for KP law or or something
else. Um, so it's it's good to have at least a goal date in mind. Um, so I guess what I'd really love to hear from you. Um, you know, put questions and
comments. Um, this I haven't really had a chance to get to know you all as a committee. Um, I' I've read a lot of your materials, but it would be really, you know, I if if you have any questions for me about the process, I'd love to
hear them. But also if you wanted to share anything with me about why you came to this why you joined this committee um if you have any particular interests that you're just waiting to discuss so that you know I can make sure
that we have some research on hand if if you're interested in any certain issues. Um, I'm happy to just open this up and have you ask me questions or tell me a little bit about yourself and um what what you're bringing to the committee as
far as interests and backgrounds. Yeah, Raphael, maybe stop sharing. Oh, sure. Thank you. Um, I think I can. Let's
see. There we go. Yeah, I wanted to circle back to the review of the charter. Um, I think Julian, you noted that you've been trying to get us to do that, but my read on it, and correct me if I'm incorrect,
is that you proposed that we go through the charter and come up with our recommended changes. the the what I get from tonight is that that there will be an opportunity for the committee to review the charter collectively
um not go through a process where we're offering this should be changed. Am I correct in my assumption? Sort of. I think I was suggesting and maybe I wasn't clear about this earlier. I was suggesting that we go through the
process and not recommend changes as much as discuss where um like discuss where we see issues. Does that make any sense? Like sort of a difference between recommending how to fix it and
identifying some of the problem areas. Andy? Yeah. I I'm just interested in going through and familiarizing ourselves again with with actually what's in there and and how it how it's organized. Um not so much like this is I'm hearing a lot that this is a
problem, but more like oh okay so this is what's in article 2 and these are the powers that are given to the council and then we you know by the end of that process then as we get feedback we we're right up to date as far as what's in there and we can know what changes there
are. We can talk about changes later. Yeah, sure. I'm open to that, Rafael. And I do think we could benefit from that. Andy, I would like to say, Julian, though, it would be great for us to perhaps weave in like that review of
feedback that have come has come in. I know a few members did it and shared what they found, but it would be great for us to spend a little more time on that. Thanks. It may go ahead. Did everyone
see the uh organiz? So Andy and I just went through all the comments and Andy typed them all up and then Bernie went through and through with some AI tool created categories and I think that's in our meeting packet. Did everyone get a chance to look at that? It's pretty
interesting. But to look at those not necess you know while I was agreeing with Raphael while we're going through what's in the charter noticing what people have said already we have like 85 comments already
from the website. Yeah Andy. Yeah, I mean I think we'll get a lot a lot more once we once we have the surveys and the and the forums, but you know, the themes will probably
solidify, you know, broad themes will will probably be repeated over and over again. But, um, I guess I I I'm conscious of Pat wanting to get to know us a little bit, so I'm happy to jump in. Um, good. Go for it. As Meg
mentioned, she and I were on the charter commission that that met in um whenever it was 2017 2017 and uh 2016 2017 and and uh um long ago I shared it and
um so I guess I'm involved in this because people wore me down to the point where I was like, "Okay, I'll do it because I have some experience with the charter and and I figured that might be useful. So I I've served on the school committee um elected to the school
committee was elected to the charter commission and um you know I I just have a interest in seeing the town um be governed you know effectively efficiently and with equity. So um I I
think it's uh it's worth taking a look at. I'm quite sure we didn't get it right the first time around and I'm interested to see what what tweaks can be made to make it better. Yeah. Um I have mostly introduced myself to you Pat. Um so I'll go to
Meg. Um I was the other person on the charter commission and Andy and I are friends and neighbors and we didn't agree on the charter some of the details. Uh I was, you know, I'm been in town meeting was in town meeting 30 years or something and
uh but as was you probably were too, but I accept the new government and I'm trying hard to make it work. Um I'm not a I try hard. There's Amoris. This is a long This could be a whole other discussion over drinks.
Ammeris is ridiculously fragmented politically. So my big mission is to try to carve through that and to be uh reasonable, listen to everybody. And Andy and I
actually wrote a series of articles uh about to p trying to sort of bring people together, which I would say we got we were unsuccessful. It was frustrating how much we agreed given that the premise was that we're supposed to be coming from opposite
sides. We were supposed to be coming from different points of view but we agreed on so many things which uh that's another hole but um Amoris is very divided along artificial lines I think artificial in that they reflect more
people's u opinions rather than things that are actually happening. And uh I've been very active trying to uh not necessarily bring people together in a goody goody way, but to try to have
authentic conversations about what are we actually concerned about? And Amoris has some really big huge structural problems related to housing, schools, taxes,
uh uh and u there are 28,000 students at UMass and about 20,000 people who live in Amoris who aren't students. So it's quite uh and we don't talk enough about how to manage those dynamics.
Um, I guess I've told more than I need to, but the end. Thank you. Or to be continued some other time over drinks. Uh, yeah. Uh, I've been in Ammer for 26
years. Um, involved in a few boards in town. Um, want to be more civically engaged, hoping that others are too. I appreciate a process like this that begins with or focuses on like hearing from community members or trying to push
for that. So I think for me like that's much what brought me to this space recommended by a few few friends and I'm here um and just trying to push for people to be aware of said charter and be more civically engaged and offer
their insights about their needs change. So, so that's why I'm here. Good to meet you, Erica. Um, I was trying to think what motivated me originally to to to be part of the committee. I think it was maybe a year a
year and a half ago there was some controversy going on in the town council about um public comment how to man how people were managing public comment whether it was the whether there people re being given enough time um whether uh there it
should be more a responsive um process I can't remember exactly the the details but I remember having a long conversation with friends about process and how how would we even go about changing something like that if we wanted to. And I realized that my my
primary my primary approach to this kind of thing is about process. And I think my committee colleagues would probably uh attest to that that's been true. my participation so far as I really care about process and I realize I also am very invested in
um democracy and how like it's it's you know slow grinding gears and it's very you know complicated and sometimes tedious and I'm interested in it and um I'm interested in where we can get to as a collective um writ small and writ
large. Yeah, thank you. Um, and I'll give a brief introduction myself. Um, I have been involved in town government for, uh, probably eight years now or so. Um,
but I went to Ammerst High School. I'm now a college student. I founded a bunch of different organizations in town that um, affect and work work with town government and advocate for certain policies. And I also um and I also
worked on another town committee and still do. And I figured that this would be a great way to um get more involved and actually sort of have a more of a governing role than just an advocacy role. And I wanted to explore how that
would feel. Wonderful. Well, thank you very much. No, that it's about you. Um, so I I feel like I introduced myself a bit when we had our presentation. Um,
but I'm Pat Lloyd. I've been with the Collins Center about three and a half years now. And before that, um, I had a variety of roles. I'm I'm a was a labor, employment, and civil rights attorney. Um, and then I became editor of a legal publisher for cities and towns that
included grants and information for cities and towns. Um, I was involved in my own local government as a town meeting member for 15 years and on the conservation commission and on a number of other commissions. Um, as well as
being a director of an open land trust here. Um, so I I've really had an opportunity to see a lot of work that has been done at the local level. And so I'm really excited about sharing what
we've learned at the Collins Center. The Colin Center is a great organization in that even though you're talking to me today, we have a team full of experts and we talk about all of these, you know, all of these projects that we're on are really a group effort. Um, and I
will often bring them in to collaborate on different issues depending on the subject that we're talking about. Um, so we're really excited to work with you. This is I I know that Mike Ward worked with you the first time and he is definitely following this very closely
and we have a lot of conversations about it. So, um his input will be involved as well and um we're just looking forward to kicking off this process. Um and I know you've kicked it off a long time before so I'm going to spend some time really catching up on all of these
materials. Um I think it's fantastic um the work that you've already put in. So, um, this is this is going to I think this is going to be great. I feel very well. Tell Mike that Andy and I say hi. I absolutely will.
Excellent. Thank you for the introduction. So, we have 15 minutes left. Um, I'm wondering how the committee feels if we'd like to do future agenda planning, topics not anticipated and end a little early, or if we would like to um have a discussion
about section 5.2 to with some of the council's um or finance committee's advice about the budget coordinating group. Um and do that instead. Um folks can be I don't really care either way. I would love to see
um I mean my understanding is that Pat's going to work with with you on the agenda for next time. Yep. And that she's going to also review the survey and give feedback to to us on on the survey. So those would be things for the next meeting to I mean the survey
feedback I guess would be would be useful to be on the agenda for next time and absolutely I guess my vote would be that we approach section 5.2 in the context of section of article 5 when we you know when we put it in in order and I I wouldn't mind getting out a couple
minutes early but that makes a lot of sense to me as well. Um I I I would tend to agree. Um, Meg, I think Erica had her hand up first. Sorry. Go ahead, Erica. I think we went at the same time. Um,
uh, I'm happy to end a little bit early, too. Um, I did I just did want to say I did distribute a sample, uh, website. I don't want to prolong the meeting, but I did want to say that if I'm going to if we're going to kick into gear and start promoting listening sessions, which we
approved earlier tonight, um I need to to get materials to our communications director May 8th in order to publicize a May 22nd event. Um that that puts us in a narrow window
uh and no meeting time before I can do that. And so I I need to have some input or or feedback on the idea of having a website in order to make that part of our promotional plan. I think waiting two weeks um to even discuss it doesn't
totally make sense. I don't we don't need to have a 20-minute discussion, but I just love some feedback. That's fine. Megan Megan and then Andy. Erica said part of what I was going to say that this next session is we also have to call these places and make sure
the spaces are available and book them and decide who's going to do that. I guess our subcommittee could meet. It's so tricky with the 45 hour 48 hour thing that we just to decide who's going to call Brocker Farm.
Um I just the second comment. So I think the uh listening sessions timing is very tricky right now. Um we've made two suggestions about things we wanted to talk about at every meeting or several meetings. One is
tonight the details of the charter. And at our last meeting, we talked about beginning to look at the feedback that we're getting in terms of discussing what we're hearing and what's because we we do have a lot of feedback already. So, I'd like
to have us at some point soon think about how we're going to discuss what we're hearing about what people would like to see done differently. Yeah. As we hear this stuff, we need to
start processing it in some way. And I'm not I have no I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Thank you, Andy. I just wanted to respond on the website. Are we allowed to have a separate website? I mean, I know when when we had the charter
commission, we had our own Facebook page and and I, you know, I think we we have a town web page that just puts our, you know, where we have our feedback form and we have our packets and things like that, which is standard, but a separate
I thought that I thought the mockup looked great. I just want to make sure that that it's okay for us to do that. Um, but I don't know, but I liked it. I mean, I I I thought that it was useful. And I again, I just want to say that if you're worried about materials for the
first session, I would definitely have some copies of the charter, some copies of the summary if it looks okay to you, and and that org chart. I think those three things would be a good starting point. I I agree. And I think on the next
agenda, I'll make sure that we have a discussion of a few sections of the charter, a discussion of Pat's input and um on the form, and also uh what was the third thing? Well, the website um we can
discuss that more. Um, but my my feeling on the website is I wouldn't want it to contradict with uh the town website. Like if it was complimentary in a way that was like on the town website that said for more information and to join a
like engage ammers type site or something like that, that would make a lot of sense to me. But to basically just have a more in-depth version of what's already on the town website just feels like it would only confuse people when they're searching for us. Um
anyway, that's just my perspective. I do think a Facebook page or something like that, an Instagram page is a great idea. Erica, um Andy, it's a good point and that's one of the things I wanted feedback on. I'm not sure if Athena's with us, but
that is a it seems to me a question for Athena, a piece that I don't know about, which is are we allowed to have a website separate from the town hosted sort of elsewhere? I can uh check in with our
communications manager about how we link to websites that aren't owned by the town and how we manage the content of those websites, if any. I know that our our website doesn't have um a notification, a pop-up notification when you leave the town's website to sites
that are managed by other entities. So, I'll just check in with her before we add a link to our site. Fantastic. Thank you, Athena. And and that's very helpful. And um the um the idea of having a separate website
from what my point of view was not to be duplicative of what's already there but to um but because the the committee website is a little bit buried inside some sub sub menus so to speak that it's a gives a front a kind of front page
look and feel to the activities of a very public facing um project that we're doing and that if it could planned a lot of our public outreach as well as kind of easy easy ways to to get in, provide feedback, interact with the town charter. And that
was the concept, not to duplicate or replace um things that already exist. But our minutes and all of that, that's the business of the committee. That's obviously not going to be part of this. That was the concept. So, it's more of a communications vehicle, right? An outreach vehicle.
Yeah. Exactly. En energetic. That that's the Thank you. So if Athena, I guess I'm if you can give me uh feedback whenever you have an opportunity to talk to um the communications office about whether it's
viable. Um and then I'm not sure that we'll, you know, we'll we'll meet again on May 8th as a group and then we can I guess um vote on it then. Awesome. That sounds like a
plan. Um, other questions, future agenda items before we adjourn. No. Okay. Um, does someone want to make a motion to adjurnn? So moved. All righty. Second. Second. Second. I'll give it to you, Meg. Um, it's all right.
I don't care. No. Oh, I didn't I didn't get to second the mug. Um, thank you for joining us and sticking with us the whole time, Athena. I appreciate it. Um, thanks Pat. Uh,
Erica, thank you. Yes, myself. I'm an I. Um, excuse me. Raphael, yes. Andy, yes. Meg, yes. And thank you to Pat for joining us as well. That was excellent. Thanks, Athena. Thank you. Have a good evening everyone.
Have a good night.