Good morning. Good morning. How's it going today? Uh it's uh been busy so far. I know the feeling. was at the council meeting last night till 10:30 or so and I had an appointment at 7 this morning.
So, a lot of hours in between. Wow. Wow. Yep. Well, I hope things went Did things go well for It did ultimately go well. It was a long meeting, 4 hour meeting, two hours of public comments. Um, but the outcome was really basically reaffirming the decision, which is was
important. Right. That's good. Good to hear. Morning. Good morning everyone. So um uh I suspect that we should have um three additional members of the commission plus myself. Um the
commission has a new legal format where I'm actually a voting member. So as long as three other folks are able to join us, we'll have a quorum and we'll be able to proceed. And um I did check this morning
um that we should have folks here. Uh morning everybody. Hi Pamela. Hi. Thank you for doing this. No problem. You're smiling today, Sharon. I um I do have a little bit of an extra pep in my
step. Good for you. as tired as I am. And and can I say Bob just completely knocked it out of the park. Wow. Awesome. All the guts, none of the glory. And off the record and on the
record, if I could get uh Bob's name on the plaque a as opposed to somebody else's, I I'm gonna advocate for that. There you go. That's okay. I don't need that. I know you don't. Nope. Nope.
Hi, Elise. Hi. Sorry I'm a little late. Oh, you're just on time. And you know, so Elise had emailed me that she was having trouble getting um with the Zoom link. And I heard from at least one other person, but I just tried to resend
them. So, I'm hoping that Myra and Jim don't have any issues getting in, but I will. Yeah. Once I got it, it was easy. Okay. Thought I was going nuts. I thought,
"Wait a minute. What do we have?" So, I All right. Well, I will send a quick email to Oh, Myra just sent a message that she's trying to get in. So,
[Music] um I'm gonna go off screen for a second. Sure. What does S have to do last night? Uh so last uh he so he certainly answered a ton of questions, but leading up to the
meeting last night, he worked all weekend long on facts and figures. Um and then and then Paul really he put together this presentation and he knocked it out of the park. It was
actually it was a really good meeting. Great, Jim. Yeah. Hi Jim. Hello. Hi. So um I'm gonna ask Philillip um my colleague to join this for a and I'm
going to jump off for a minute just to so I can re send the link to Myra who's having trouble. Um, so as soon as Philip gets there, I don't want to close down until he's able to join. Let's see.
It's actually hot here. How is it where you all are? Beautiful. 62 degrees. It is perfect, isn't it? I have the dog outside on the balcony. Oh, she loves it. She been begging. That's a happy
puppy. Absolutely. Oh, very happy. I'm happy I got a place that has a balcony. Yes. Yes. This is wonderful. It's weird to go from, you know, snow on Saturday and really cold weather on
Sunday to, you know, 65 and gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah. It's bizarre. I can't wait to put the down coat away. Yes. Yes. I can't stand it. Yeah. I finally put the shovels away this weekend. Uh oh. Yeah.
Yeah. Uh oh. Oh no. I'll take this all year. I just love it. All year. Yeah. I won't get anything done. That's cute.
I'll be out on that balcony. Yeah. [Music] Good excuse to sit and read library books. It's true. Yes. On the balcony. Yeah. The glass of ice water or lemonade.
Yeah. I blame you guys for my procrastination. Okay. Good. I'll take that. I'll take that. Get lost in a story. Oops. Yeah. All right. Um my apologies. Philip is also
having trouble um logging in and I uh cannot uh close down this meeting or I could close down the meeting but I don't want to do that uh make me the co-host. Oh yeah, there he is. Okay. All right.
So, I'm gonna leave Phillip in and I'm going to pop out and see if I can help Myra get get in. Okay. Morning, Phillip. Good morning. Technology and cars, they're both awesome until they're not. Yes. Oh god.
Right. Yes. Although my my IT guy, anytime I have an issue, he very politely and sweetly reminds me that it's 99% user error. I said, Okay. What if I screwed up now?
His first question, did you shut off the computer, reboot it, just see what happens? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's always such a easy question and sometimes, you know, it really is that and then sometimes you're like, of course I thought of that. Why would I not think of that?
But that shouldn't be the answer, though. I shouldn't have to turn it off to make it work. or that whirling circle of uh rainbow circle. Do you ever get that? Uh you mean no. Oh, I guess that's from
older computers. I used it would be when mine was giving me trouble or freezing or anything that this rainbow colored circle would just Yeah. The spinning wheel of death we call it. That I used
to get that. Nope. How much snow did you guys get on the weekend for me? So, I'm in the north northwestern part of the state. Uh, a couple inches. My sister is in the Worcester
area and she got four. Wow. Wow. Crazy. That's crazy. We didn't get any. I'm just outside of Boston. We didn't get any, but it was not nice. Not It was cold. Nasty. I think we got It covered the grass areas,
but not the sidewalk. Yep. And here's Myra. Hi, Myra. I don't know if you can hear me. Can you? Yes, we can hear you. Oh, okay. I had to go in on my phone. The link on the computer is taking me to a
song, which is odd. That doesn't sound like a bad thing. Actually, depends on if you like it or not. I don't know. I didn't get I didn't listen. I was just like this is not right. Okay. So, I'm on my phone.
Got it. So, are we have a quorum? I hope um Pamela, we do. Yeah. As soon as Pamela jumps back in, then a quorum should be present, I believe, for you all. Cody said he would be there. be here. Ely said she would be
here. I don't know who's here. No, Pamela. I think that he couldn't make it. Oh, well, we have a lease and Jim is here. And Jim is here. So, we have a And we have a Okay, Pamela counts now.
So, okay, cool. So, we should call this meeting to order. I don't know where Pamela is. He is um I believe jumping back on. Um she's probably trying to get a link to me which is very odd. This whole thing has been very odd. Give me one second.
It would take me a quick second to walk out of there. Okay, cool. Thank you. That was very strange. Every time I tried to get in, it said the thing said thank you and then it was a song called Thank You.
Thank you. And and that was when I tried to get in from my browser. The other way I couldn't get in at all. Well, that was nice and polite of it to thank you. Well, Zoom keeps changing its interface and a lot of blind people are
having trouble with it now. So, I'm not sure what that's all about, but anyway, every time you go in there, there's a different screen you have to figure out. Myra Pamela is in the meeting now. Cool. All right, I'm sorry I got here. I'm on
my phone. That's all right. Um, no problem. I'm gonna read the beginning um intro and then we can get started and I apologize for the delay. Well, it's my Sorry. No, it's Yeah. So, the Commission for Persons with Disabilities will will
meet virtually on Tuesday uh April 15th pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of uh 2025 extended through June 30th of 2027. The ability of public bodies to meet in a fully remote or hybrid manner.
Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via
technological means. So, um to establish a quorum, um Myra, would you like to do the roll call? Sure. We have um Elise Link. Yeah. Just say here. Pamela Young here. Uh who do we have?
Um, we have Jim Curt here here and Myra Ross here. So, we have a quorum so we can uh deal with our agenda which is great. So, we have um do we have anyone besides Sharon? Do we have the architect
or just Sharon? Okay. Okay. Sharon, do you do you want to um have everyone introduce themselves? Yeah, sure. Uh so I'll I'll hand it on over to FAA and then to Bob Parent is also here. So I'm I'm here. Ellen Anelone uh uh principal
with Fineold Alexander uh Architects and I think we've met with you guys a couple of times. So it's nice to see everybody again. Josephine and I'm Josephine Penta. I'm the project manager on this project. I'm also with Bangold Alexander. And yes, nice to see everyone
again. Well, thank you. Good morning. Uh Bob Parent with the town of Ammerst. I think we've met a couple of times in a couple of different projects over the last year or two. So good to see you again. Thank you for coming. Okay, so there seems to be a problem with the staircase
that they have identified. Is that what the issue is? Yeah, I I can I can just dive in. So um there's a historic stair which you are are all familiar with, I'm sure. as you
enter the front of the library that um it's the stair in the lo in the essentially the lobby that we are aiming to keep because of its historic value um and it is one of the um thank you Josephine we have some photos uh you may
be familiar with yes that one okay so this it's just it's it's an important it's one of the pieces that we are keeping intact in in the current library design. So, we're looking for your
support to go to um to go and get a variance to keep this stair. And I'll just if you want to take it from here and give uh the folks a little more detail of why we need the variance. Sure. So,
um if everybody can see um the screen cannot see the screen, so you'll have to describe it. Okay. Well, I just want to make sure my the correct monitor is displaying. Okay. But
are there images? Okay, great. Um, so these are images here um on the screen. There are images of the front entry um at the Jones Library. This front entry piece has this existing um main stair, this historic main stair. Um, can I
interrupt and ask you to move your mouse very more slowly because I am legally blind and can't see things quick. Thank you. Yes, no problem. Um, okay. So, this stair here that I'm pointing to um this
is the existing main historic stair um that we're talking about today. Um we are trying to ret retain the stair um at it as its current state and also um along with that um other historic elements in this main lobby. Um as you
might um notice there's some mill work here um wood paneling on the walls and um trim around the doorways and and we're trying to retain all of this in its current state. So, um to go back to the stair, we're going to pull up a
floor plan just to um show you um the arrangement of this existing stair and what we are proposing in the addition um and a little bit more detail on this variance. Um per um Massachusetts codes,
we there's a number of codes that we have to um comply with and one of them is the MAB. um that's the Massachusetts Architectural Access Board. And along with that, there's a few items in that code that we have to um have to meet.
And this variance is basically um going to help us not have to make those changes because we have other stairs in this floor plan that comply with the code. Um we don't see the floor plan, just Oh, sorry. Um there stuck. Do you want to just
point out the the stair we're talking about? Yeah. Um, so this is existing stair is right here if you can see my cursor. Um, it's blue. It's it's colored blue. Um, and
this is the main entry right here. And so and so um so this existing stair here is the the one in um our discussions for today. Um, we did highlight other vertical
circulation elements in orange. Those are all new pieces. And so the um the only one that's in blue is the existing one to remain. And so um there's a few elements on this stair that don't comply with
that MAB code. Um one of them is um the rail um height. The mounting height of the rail has to meet a certain number. and we don't um currently meet that. The other um is the size and shape of the
rail. Um it doesn't comply with the um the outside diameter um that we would need to meet to um to comply with code. And then another piece is the rail extensions. There has to be rail extensions at the top and bottom. So the
the handrail itself does not meet um the code at all. So, we would be required to most likely add a new handrail um on both sides of the stair. One would be attached to the wall. The other one would be inboard of the existing
historic rail. Um the other piece that doesn't comply are the nosings at the stair um at the stair tread and rise where the stair and tread tread and riser meet. Um so, um I think those would have to be reconstructed. Um so,
the The nosing is a little like a little flap on the bottom that keeps you from your foot from going through. So the the nosing is kind of at the corner of the tread and riser where the tread and riser meet. Um the code
Yeah, it's it's an overhang and the code requires dimensions on that overhang and most older buildings don't have no that meet that compliance. Um and so it's too big or it's too small? too big. Got it. Okay.
Um, so those are the Can I put this in like real people terms instead of architect terms? Sure. So the the spindles on the stairs are not tall enough is number one. Number two, they're too far apart. And number three,
the overhang on the tread is too big. Is is are those the three things? Um, so the handrail itself um doesn't meet the size and shape it needs to be because what does it mean? It's too big. So the
the Yeah, the handrail needs to be between um 1 and a/4 and 1 and 1/2 inch diameter and so it doesn't need that that dimension. The rail the rail you mean the rail that you hold on to? Yes.
Hand when you go up. Yes. has. So, it has to have a certain width and it doesn't. It's too narrow or it's too wide. It's too wide. Okay. Okay. And and the So, okay. So, it's too wide and the rail is not high
enough or it's too high. It's too low. It's too Okay. Okay. All right. So, I Yeah. Okay. I get it. It's too low. And um and you're saying that it
doesn't extend far enough on the bottom or the top for people to use it to know where the staircase ends. Is that correct? I see it now. Yep. That's correct. There is supposed to be at the top a 12 in extension and at the bottom
a 12 in plus the dimension of the tread extension. So it does not extend. No, I see the bottom step. There's nothing to hold on to. The bottom step is further out, right? Okay. Yeah. So, so the there
are three non-compliances is what you're saying. The extensions on the top and bottom, the height of the rail, the width of the rail, uh having to do with the rail, and the tread sticks out too far. So, allegedly, if you're climbing
this step, you could get your foot stuck in it and fall forward. Is that the issue? Is that why they make the rule that way? Yes. Yes. I get it. I see it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But one thing we should point out that this stair will rem, you
know, the idea we're hopeful we can keep it intact, but we don't see it getting used very much because we're introducing three new stairs, right? And an elevator that's brings you to every floor in the library. So we we don't see this being
used as much. And if you can Josephine just point out the stairs that you've got them labeled A B C in A B and C. Sure. Um so stair C goes to every level. Um
so that is where is where C? Um right here. Okay. So could you describe where C is? Um, yes, sorry about that. Um, so as you um enter the main lobby where we were,
if you keep going straight, it's directly to your right within the existing building footprint. It's it's to the it's adjacent to that existing stair. It's probably 10 ft, Josephine. 15 10 ft north. Yeah,
that staircase curl curves to the right. There's a right angle at the top. And so you're saying that the hallway at the top of it there that is pretty much where the other stairway comes in at when you're at the second floor. Yeah.
Yes. Okay. I mean I've been up that stairway a million times. So that the So I mean it it it you go in straight from the door, you make a right turn somewhere in the stairway and you get to a a
a stair. So, it's going to be pretty obvious where the other stairway is when you walk into the building. So, this stair is new, so it's not the exact same location where the existing stair is. Um, and so, and this stair is directly off that main
lobby, so it's easier to get to, but it's going to be obvious. Yes, there'll be signage and there'll be Yes. And and keep in mind, and I mentioned it two minutes ago, is that and I don't want to overpromote this, but there is an
elevator that brings you to every level of this of the library. So that that we're seeing that as a something that opens up easy access to every floor. So for me, it's not that's not the issue. For me, the issue is if you walk in the front door and you can't see that
there's another staircase, but you can see that there's a staircase five feet ahead of you right on the other side of the door, you're likely to try to go up that staircase if you don't know if it's not pretty obvious to you that there's
another staircase. Mhm. So for me the issue is if we can I mean you're saying pretty much this is an ornamental staircase in the new plan. Yes. But it's usable. It's still you if you used it last week you can keep using it when we
reopen. Right. Okay. I get that. I like the staircase. I don't want you to take it out. I'm not talking about that. I'm worried about it as an attractive nuisance to people who don't really who don't know that there's another staircase because when you walk in the front door, it's right in front of you.
You can't you can't barely get in there without tripping on the staircase. So, I mean, not literally, but you know what I mean. Understood. Yeah. So, if you don't know when you come in that there's another
staircase, is there any liability for the library or anything because the things don't conform um because they've been determined to be I mean, the AAB made the rule, you know, tripping up the stairs. I don't know how many people have done it. You do it in your own house whether it sticks out far
enough or not, you know. Um, so I I'm just saying that and and going up the staircase and coming down if there's well you wouldn't come down because you've already gone up so you know there's another st another way to get down. I'm just worried about um whether
people are going to be you can't say that it's not going to be used cuz it will be right if it's if it's there people are going to go up it. Myra, can I I'm sorry, Ellen. Let me let me just interject. Myra, I love
exactly what you're saying and where you're going with this with your thought process because that's exactly the problem that we're trying to solve now is that if you're newish to the library, you walk in and you see the set of stairs and you know you want to get to the third floor, so you take those
stairs and they don't they don't go to the third floor. So, you're absolutely right. But the benefit now is um this new staircase uh the code compliant one is within eyesight of the historic staircase. It's very close to the front
existing small elevator. And uh so it opens right onto that main hallway. So yeah, when you walk in, you are able to see not only the historic staircase, but also this new code compliant one. And you know, we'll have like flashing
lights and everything so people know that's the staircase they should go to. Okay. Cuz I can see that as a um I mean, you know, it's a beautiful staircase and the woodwork is beautiful and it it should stay, but the problem is that it is a
non-compliant staircase. Um it probably they'll probably tell you you need to have signage on the staircase. of some kind that says this is not an accessible staircase or it doesn't go to the third floor or whatever you want to
say because once you've done the job you have to be in compliance with the code right I mean even if you got a variance to build it or to leave it you're going to have to indicate that it's not not compliant um I mean you know is a kid
going to do something stupid that they didn't already do probably not because they've that's their case has been there for hundred years and whatever a kid did that was dumb has already been done, right? They'll do it. You know, you know what I mean? Yes. Um, you know, you can go flying over the
staircase if you want to. If nobody's watching you, but they could have done that in 1940 and they could have done that in 1980. And once you do the very the renovation, then you're in a different ballgame because you've certified that it's access, you know, that it's in compliance. You know what
I'm saying? Yes. Understood. Yes. It's the stair has seen a lot of things over the years. I'm sure it's an attractive nuisance. Yeah. Um Okay. So, uh what what do you propose?
You just want us to do what? We are looking to get a letter of um Oh, the support. Support. Thank you. uh to for us to keep the stair intact for its historic value.
Okay. So when you say intact that means unchanged. Yes. And it's just and let me just be clear on that. It's just not I get the stair is the thing but just big picture so you understand where we're coming from. This lobby we're keeping all the wood trim. So this is, you know,
when you walk into this space, it's going to be very much like it was now. When you when after we open after the renovation, it's going to be very similar to what exists now. That's what our goal is. And the variance that we
need is is on the stairs as Josephine explained. Okay. Um, does anyone on the committee have any questions or comments for the architects? No. Yeah, I mean looking at the floor plan,
um it appears that the main entry is the only entry um for I don't know customers, for lack of a better term, users, whatever. Um and it looks pretty much that pretty much the same dimensions as what exists
now. Is that correct? Yes. One thing I just want to add and I we so right now when you to to get into the building you have to go up a couple of stairs that we're going to change that we're grading it so you don't have to go
up any stairs to get in the building so it's fully accessible. Wonderful. Yeah. But the thing is for me and I don't know whether this opens up a whole new can of worms or something like that. Right now, anybody in a wheelchair or walker is going to use, you know, what appears on
this floor plan to be the staff entry uh the flat area. There's an accessible space right nearby. You go in and it's a broad it's a wide space uh and you can access everything. So that uh anybody in
a wheelchair uh would find even with uh a level entry at the main entrance would find it difficult to use. I I'm concerned about that. Maybe well it's fully accessible. Right. So the entry itself is fully accessible. like your
the space between beside the stair is fully accessible and it and it's and that's the way people will be coming in. Um that meets all the codes, the footprint and all that stuff that meets all the code once you get beyond the
stair the whole library opens up. We I mean you all have been in there many more times and we've been in a lot but I'm sure you've been in more. And it's it's a little bit of a pinch point, but it's ex it's existed for a hundred years
and it does meet code for accessibility. And Jim, it is a straight it is a straight shot. Um, so and the, you know, right now there's the foyer. There's like a little air lock, but those doors are now going to be pinned open, so you don't have to worry about that. the
doors have to stay for historic purposes, but but somebody in a wheelchair or a walker or crutches, they're not going to have to deal with those doors anymore. So, they're just going to walk in or, you know, or wheel in and it it's a straight shot. And and
there is the that hallway, although on this floor plan, it doesn't look very wide. It's plenty wide for two wheelchairs to come and go at the same time. Really? How wide is it? Off the top of my head that
Josephine, do you know it's six, seven feet, right? If not more. I was guessing seven to eight, but yeah. Yeah, it's a little deceiving because you see the landing at the top of the stairway. That looks like the hallway is narrow.
Can you zoom into that just so folks can maybe see a little easier? I have a couple questions, but I'll wait. If I could just follow up at least on on this one point. Sure. You're talking about 84 to 96 inches or so. Yeah. All right,
that's fine. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you. Go ahead, Elise. Go ahead, Elise. Uh, okay. I have um Am I unmuted here? Y um I have a couple questions about the All right. We're talking about the entrance
that's um in the front the very front entrance facing the street, not the side entrance, right? Yeah. Correct. Okay. And that Oh, and that has this I never use that one for the reason that uh the
door to the to that if somebody and this could happen even with a ramp. If somebody the door opens out and if somebody opens that door to come out, they can knock a person backwards if they're coming
up. I'm a little bit concerned. I mean, I may not have the location correct. I don't know if I'm making sense. You're right. You're right, Elise. But now there won't there won't be those stairs there anymore. So, you'll just be it's just a straight shot. Straight level. A straight shot. You have to open the
door, right? But you'll be able to back up as somebody is is leaving. And there's windows so you can actually you can see them. If you have sight if you have I see here I I don't have 2020. And so the reason I don't use it is because
even with a cane or a guide dog, people aren't the windows are not low enough so that somebody could see and register. Oh, this woman can't see me coming out. Sure. And and because so the doors won't be lowered, but but the ground will be
raised so the the you will be able to see through better. The window the windows will be the window of the door will be lowered so that they can see enough of a person about to come in and out. Yeah. I I'm not sure I'm describing
it well, but the the ground is going to be raised so it'll it'll be like we're taller. Okay. I'm just going by my vision issues and that is you know but yeah even so
even through a window you know my personal issues I can't see somebody behind a a glass door but if they could see me yes then they won't knock me backwards yes you know because I won't be able to back up yes agreed um and the
my other All right I have another question about the side entrance but I know this has nothing to do with I don't want to take up time with that. So, you know, can I address that another time? Maybe. I'd like to follow up on Alisa's
question. How wide is the outside? We we went through this, but I um the the little um what do we call it? A It's not a platform, but it's like a platform. How landing? Thank you. How wide is that
landing that's at the front entrance? Does it encompass the the like the height the the light the lights on the side and everything? Oh yeah, it's Josephine. Is it the is it from is it that entire width from the each of those bumpouts? Yeah, I
think encompasses the whole piece now. Yeah. So there's like a little plaza there so you not going to have trouble with traffic going in and out. Okay. And we also talked at one point you were g excuse me you were going to maintain some steps and we talked about how to
let people know that they had gone down the steps u or where the steps are. We talked about that having some kind of a tactile marker. Um somebody wanted to put granite there and we said no um because
that's not the the real way to demarcate that you're going on steps. So, I want to make sure that you have that in your plan. Remember when we talked about that? Yeah, I do. The architect wanted to put a granite strip and it would look pretty. But you're not going to that's
not how people know when people are looking for uh footing with their feet when they are looking for where the steps are or if they don't know there are steps. There are certain things that tell us there are steps. Sure. And it is not a strip of granite. So, I want to
make sure that somehow you incorporated that into the plan. Yes, you did. If it Yes, it will. And we It's been a while since we've been working on this, but it will be if it's not there, it'll
be done because we did talk about it with the landscape architect. Yes. Right. Okay. So, as long as um you know, now that we're uh last night, you got the final go-ahad to do this. So, I hope that we can be in some way involved
um on a much more regular basis. Not that there we're I mean change orders are a bad word, but um you know I I mean we haven't gone through this. We went through it to some extent with a fine tooth comb because you asked us some questions and we answered those
questions, but we didn't go through everything. So, I want to make sure that everything that we did go through is actually incorporated into the plan. We talked about the back walkway um you know and snow and ice and right
knowing where that was you know like we had there was a whole discussion about it and I just want to make sure that those those things are incorporated into the plan. Now we can get back to the stairway.
Um how do people feel about the stairway? I think it's it it reminds me of the request for a variance that we got from Ammeris College in their building and that snazzy I don't know circular staircase or something. I mean it's it's
ornamental. Most people aren't going to use it. It has historical value. So, and there are lots of other alternatives. So, why not? As long as there's some kind of adequate signage, um I'm in favor of the variance.
with Jim. And I also I'm sorry. Say that again. What did you say, Elise? You got I agree. I have to agree with Jim. I Okay. Yeah. He couldn't have put it better. Okay. And And I'm also in agreement with
keeping the um approving the variance. So Okay. Um and I am too. I wonder one thing. Um, the only thing that concerns me that's really I mean maybe it isn't. The only
thing that concerns me about the safety issue is the lack of extension, but you can't extend it on the bottom because that's sort of the cool part because it all curved, right? Yeah. And it it's the extension is, you
know, we have to be careful because there's a there is a um an exception to the except to the extensions when it's impedes the flow of travel, right? Because you don't want to have an extension to get in the way when
somebody's trying to get out of the building in an emergency. So, right, we we have to be careful about putting those and we wouldn't suggest it at the at that bottom corner because that would cause a little bit. It's a major path of travel. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Got it. All right. I I I'm I'm fine with it as well. as long as it's really clear to people who come into the library that that is functional in a in a pinch, but that
it is not intended to be the main staircase. And I don't know how you do that visually. I don't know if you do it with signage. I don't know if you make something. I don't know how you make the new staircase, which isn't going to be, you know, historical looking cool
staircase, right? It's going to be like a plain old staircase, right? The new one. Yeah. Yes. Good way to put it. Plain old staircase. Not very detailed. Not you know the new the communicating one will be nice. But
the but you know they don't build things like they used to because we can't this historic stair that's you know why we want to keep it because it's beautiful. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. Um, I you know, and it is one thing you could easily do to preserve the character of
the building as long as you don't have, you know, some seven-year-old decide to go flying over the top, which I suspect they've had. Mhm. And I met a kid who actually did that in his own house and ended up with brain damage. So, you know, it's a real thing. Kids do it. Mhm.
Um so um I so we have to write a letter in support of um in that uh application there are lots and lots of code numbers
um that you have to that we have to approve your um lack compliance with. Right. Myra, this is Pamela. I I think that we could just uh do a general letter of
support for the variance application. We don't have to mention all of the specific Okay. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of numbers in there. Okay. Yeah. All right. All right. Um, I think that's this is um we need a motion to support
the request for the variance. And I move that we support the request for variance at the MS Public Library with the provisor that there is adequate signage to ensure safety of use. Perfect. I'll second.
Okay. Um, if you're in favor, say yes. Yes. Yes, I didn't hear it. Okay. Okay. Um, and there's nobody left to say no. So, we're in support of your request for a variance. And this is very cool
because it's it's actually going to get done. I don't think they're going to find a way to go to court. Maybe they will. Who knows? I hope. God knows. I hope not. Our fingers are crossed. Yeah.
Um, this this is the All right. So, thank you very much. And I hope that if there are any um I think one thing that is yet to be decided for
sure is colors. Is that right? Cuz change orders aren't I mean, I was on the high school building committee. We didn't decide the colors till close to the end. Um I assume that you didn't make those decisions yet. There's a
color scheme that's been approved. Yeah. Okay. Because people with vision problems depend on color changes and color contrasts, especially in big open spaces
to find where they are. Yeah. So, yes. You know, the gray rug with the gray car with the gray furniture is like a disaster. Correct, Elise? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. color contrast and even I don't know this is a lot to ask but when you
have stairs um having the edges of the stairs marked in another color contrast is also extremely helpful. The problem I have with the stairs you have now is there's no if you don't have any depth perception like myself or have very
little you go flying. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know where they begin or end. Yeah. No, that makes I think it's in the code that you have to have some kind of indicator of stairs. Yeah, right. That would I hope. Do you not? I mean I
assume you do. Ellen, do you do Ellen? I'm talking. Yes, the materials are different from the stair from than from the floor surface. So there is a there is a change. There is a change. Yes. And having the stairs. Yeah.
texture. Just to clarify one thing that um we do have a color as Sharon said, we have a color palette, but but once the bids come in, we'll see exactly what colors we get, right? So there's there's wiggle
room on that, but the stairs are Yeah, they comply with code because the code the code is very specific about stairs. Get the car dirty with as long as each edge is marked in some kind of contrasting color. Mhm. that would really be, you know, helpful, kind of
essential. And your signage colors have been chosen and all that or Okay. Because the color scheme. Yes. And that meets code because that's it's very strict for the signage.
Yeah. It's very the the the level of contract contrast is very strict. Yeah. Yeah. But for example, if you put a if let's say your wall is beige. I
mean I don't know what what color are you mostly walls mostly going to be there. They'll be a lighter tone. Yes. Okay. So, if the wall is beige, the sign, the back of the sign, not the
lettering, the sign has to be a lot different from beige. So, the sign itself, the rule says if it has to have a certain amount of contrast in the sign, but does it say that the sign
itself against the background has to be in contrast? I I would have to double check that. But I can I can tell you this. The signs are to inform people. We're not trying to hide the signs, right? So, we want people to see the signs. So, that's taken into account on
the signage. And we actually have a sign consultant specific. So, it's not it's just it's very it's very thought through. Okay. as long as it's thought through by people with low vision instead of
thought through by people who read a code and says and said, "Well, that looks okay to me. It con it complies with the code." Um, so has to be clear and large enough
also. And the thing is there are lots of people with low vision. The older people get they get um many people have lower vision um and they need um everything
that complies with the AAB code isn't optimal for what people actually want. And obviously that's true. I'm sure that's true for Jim as well with a wheelchair. But there are certain things you can't change like topography and
certain things you can't change. Um, but the color of the sign against the wall, the color of the rug against the wall, the color of the rug when you switch to a different location can be changed and that's not in the code.
Understood. So, um I mean I'll just say it one I guess I I don't know that I've said it to this group, but when I went in my large public high school, uh the way I found the classrooms that I had to find cuz I could never see the numbers
on them was every um the the left side of the hall alternated gray and green floors and then you know, one room would have gray, one room would have and the right side of the hall alternated dark
brown and beige floors. And if I knew that I was walking down this large long hallway that had 14 classrooms on it, I knew that I had to have a dark brown one and a green one. And that is was
incredibly helpful to me. Nobody else would have noticed it. Mhm. So what I'm what I'm saying is what's really helpful sometimes to people isn't in the code. Um so I that's why I think when you know
when the bids come in they don't you know they don't charge more for blue than for gray unless there's a fire sale on gray right fire sale on gray. So, I guess that's what I'm saying is that that not everything that complies
with the code is actually helpful when it could be easily done a different way. Yeah. So, I hope you'll come back when you have when you have finishes to talk about because that does make a huge difference in the use of the building.
And Ely won't be on the commission anymore at that point, but we're going to make her come back if you want to come to that meeting because she's going to have I can come back cuz I Whoops, you disappeared again. Wait a minute. I do go in there all the time
and um I don't know whether I can do this now or another time, but I do have a concern about the side entrance uh the doors on the side entrance of the library. You know, where you go all the way down near where the driveway is?
That's That's not going to be a public entrance anymore. Oh, it won't. Yeah. No, everybody will go through the front door. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I just really want to thank all of you
for taking the time. Um this is to be able to look at this building through your eyes, your point of view, your experiences really matter and um your the time that you have put into this
project over the years uh is is important and I really appreciate that and future generations of library users appreciate it. Thank you so much. Well, we agree. Yeah. Yeah. There were three people from this committee way back who applied to be on the building committee
and all of them were denied. So I think that's unfortunate. Okay. Okay. That's unfortunate. And we did we did uh bring it up but it didn't matter. So I don't know who I guess you didn't appoint the people but whoever did. Um yeah. Anyway,
um I was not one of those people. It's not about me. There were three other people. I was one of them. That's all right. Well, okay. All right. So, thank you for bringing this to us. We will get a letter out. Um, thank you. And and Pam,
let us know if you know if you want help with that because you've got a million other things that you've got on your plate. Whatever we can do to help with the letter. Thanks. So, I was actually going to ask um um Myra before we adjourn, do you want me to draft it or would you like to draft it? I can pull
out one from of our prior um Well, if you if you have one again, you can just say we approve of the request. Yeah. I mean, if if it's sort of boilerplate and it won't take you more than half an hour, that would be great. All right. Then I will I will take care of that. You are the secretary after all.
Exactly. Yes. Don't remind me. Nobody wants I know. All right. So, you we need a mo motion to adjourn, right? Thank you all. Thank you. Motion to adjourn. Okay. I move we
adjourn. Second. Okay. Everyone who doesn't want to adjurnn, say yes. Okay, we're adjourned. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you everyone. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thanks, Elise.