Okay, now we're reporting. Please go ahead. >> Thanks. Um, this is the budget coordinating group. It is uh December 18th and we um have are going to get started. I'm going to make sure that
people can hear and be heard. Um I'll start with Deb Leonard. >> Hi, I'm here. >> Thank you. Anna Herd. Hi, I'm here and can be or can can hear for the moment. Um,
covers the school people. Uh, library. Uh, Nat, >> yes, I'm here. >> Austin, >> present >> and Sharon. Okay. Uh, and the council people, uh, Kathy Shane, >> I'm here. >> Councelor Hani,
>> present. And then Sean Mangano is here. >> Here. >> Okay. Um we're going to start. Sean, um are there any updates that you are Paul wanted to make sure you shared with us? >> Um only that, you know, we closed our
fiscal year. We were a little behind on that and we are getting ready to send out um budget development documents to our department heads. So we're a little bit later than the schools in terms of the development of our budget, but we are starting to work on our projections. Um and early signs, we've done a little
bit of work on that. I think, you know, you're going to hear more from the schools, but health insurance is really um a killer for everybody. Um we're just looking at just rough estimates of what an 18% increase means relative to the the 3 and a half% overall increase and
it uses up just about, you know, all of the money. Um so, crossing our fingers that maybe that 18% will come in lower. >> One second. One second. One second. Somebody needs to mute. >> Um, okay.
>> So, um, so yeah, so that's update for now and I do have the school budget documents that I can pull up on the screen later if that's helpful uh when we talk about that more. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Um so let me just go back to our agenda for today and then um there since there
are no other updates, we're just going to go to um updates on how your budget discussions are going and um the challenges you're faced with as well. So we'll begin with the library with Austin um Nat and Sharon.
>> Sharon, why don't you start? Uh yeah, the only thing that I have uh is so I silly me. All along I've been using 15% for the health insurance increase. So now I've got to I have to add a little more. Um so so um that's sad. And and
I'm working with Sean on the personnel um uh yeah projection. So that's really helpful. Thank you, Sean. >> Um that that's really all I have that's new. >> Okay. Uh, are there any questions that we want to I'm I'm going to come back to
this, but just think of any questions that you want to ask the library about uh their budget based on this meeting and the previous meeting. Um, Austin, do you did you have anything you wanted to add? >> No. Lyn, I'll have some things I want to
say later on, but this is fine for now. >> Okay. Councelor Hanicki. Yeah, I um we we'll get to the schools later, but I'm curious uh Sharon on personnel matters, do you have a a general estimate of what
the year-over-year increase when you put the colas and the step increases for your your staff in look like? You know, we've got some of those preliminaries for the school, and I'm curious what that is on a year-over-year basis if you've got any estimates. I know they're
not solid, but >> Yeah. And I don't even I literally just got the spreadsheet from Sean and just started playing with it. So I don't even I don't even want to throw anything out there because it's not I need more time. >> Okay. Uh and Sharon, just following up
on that question. Um are all the contracts that would impact the library settled? >> Yes. >> Yeah, I thought so. Thank you. Um, so the estimates you're giving us will be based on those contract negotiations being settled. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Um, thank you. Um, Nat, anything from you on the library? >> Kathy has her hand up. Um, just in case I >> Sorry. >> Go ahead, Kathy. >> I may be in your corner or my hand's not colorful enough. Um, I have a just I
don't know whether it affects your budget at all, Sharon. Um but um in in the FY27, are you scheduled to move back into the new building or is that so would that be like midyear midyear way through?
>> Yeah, Februaryish. >> February. So you're you're looking at a budget that's about half of the year in your current quarters and half of the year new. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So it'll be a year this coming
February. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. Um and yes, that does span ne two that spans all four quarters of the fiscal year. Um okay, any other questions of the library for the moment.
All right. Then um what I think we'll do is I did get an email from the superintendent. She did confirm that Shannon is out and she is uh hopefully going to join us um when her other obligations are over. Um so maybe the
best thing to do would be to turn to any conversation about the town budgets and then um we can come back to the schools and see if she arrives by then. But go ahead Kathy.
>> Okay. Um Sean, when you uh said 18% insurance eats up all or most of it, could you give it get more? Um I'd have to look back to the the guideline projection for how much the town is getting, but I've been trying to do that
across the board. Um and I know I did it for last year, but of the total increase the municipal budget was scheduled to get and then >> Yeah. So, um, again, we are not at a place where we have super detailed numbers, but just we're, um, the 3 and a
half% is roughly a million dollars, um, a little bit more, uh, on the budget for the just the town portion. >> And when I just took our looked at our active and retirey health insurance and added 18%, it was, you know, in the 7 $800,000 range. Um, that doesn't take
into account changing enrollments and things like that. So there again, that's why I don't want to be too specific, but um just doing that really rough math uh made it, you know, it was pretty clear it's going to take up a big chunk. >> Yeah. No, that's that's that's near enough to what I was looking at. Um and
that's Yes. Because I know last year last year when we got it down to 14% um it was half of the total increase. So we're we're at an >> clearly at at 18%, >> right? and
>> and unfortunately most of what anybody would give up was given up last year. So that isn't going to happen again. Uh >> you know and it's it's a a piece of it is retirees. So we don't even that's a longer term >> the retirees negotiation. Yeah.
>> So most of our retirees are on medex and that works a little bit differently. So those premiums are not set by us. are set by um federal government, state um and those premiums change on a calendar year basis. So the most recent increase we had to those rates was pretty large.
It's effective this January and it was about a a 14 or 15% increase to those rates which are lower but um but that's a pretty high increase historically um to those uh those premiums. >> And so that so that will cover half of
next fiscal year. So, we know the rates for half of next fiscal year for retirees. Um, and we can only kind of make projections on what the second six months of next year will look like. >> Okay, Councelor Hani, >> thank you for that. That brought up
another question is how do you budget the six months you don't know about um when that could be as high as 14 or 18%. Um, but but my other question is similar to the one I had to Sharon. Um, do you have any estimate of what that percentage increase in personnel costs,
assuming all personnel stay? You know, obviously at this point we're just trying to get some some projections and estimates um based on the contracts that are currently signed and and where negotiations are. Do you have any idea what that percentage increase might look like given colas and steps?
>> No. Um, not I mean I've So I finished spreadsheets. We've sent them out to department heads to review um to make sure we've got everything right. it's, you know, it's it's a little more complicated. Um, and so we're waiting to hear back from our department heads on make make sure we got everybody in the right buckets. We have some new
contracts that um the the change for FY27 from FY26 um is a little bit bigger than typical. Um so that has to be factored in. And then we have some unsettled contracts as well where we're making um you know estimated
guesses. So our DPW um two DPW contracts are not settled and so that's actually retro to this year. So we're we're making kind of two projections. We have to project what the increase will be for FY26 and when what the estimate the increase will be for FY27. So um so not
we're almost there but not solid enough that I'd want to put anything out yet. >> Thanks. >> Do you have additional questions? C. Um, councelor Hick. >> Um, okay. I would just want to stay on this one for the moment. Are the D two
DPW contracts the only unsettled contracts for the town? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then, um, you said that some of the contracts that were signed, I guess, last year or recently, uh, there is a slight increase over last year, uh,
for FY27. Yeah, there's there's some change those those so fire employees have some changes to their contracts in terms of like some things that were previously stipens are now part of the base. So that's got to be factored and have got to work through all that. Um some of that one of the contracts I believe got
a new top step. So there's different pieces of the contract that we have to kind of work through to see how it impacts. It's not as t it's not as easy as just taking like a it's a 2% cola and and moving everybody along a step the same way. Um, that's why we're working with our our chiefs to review it
closely. >> I want to pause for a moment and ask Anna, can you hear us? >> I can. I can. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you. Um, so we we've kind of done a quick uh breeze through the
library. We'll get back to it. And we're doing the town and then we'll move to the schools. Kathy, >> I just have one more. Um Sean, when have we already heard or when will we hear on what the pension assessment is? >> Um we've already heard on the pension
assessment. Um so when we I think we um committed to coming back to the finance committee in January um or or early February with sort of an updated projection. So that'll be folded into that. But it came in um I've got to look at how it shakes out between like the
general fund, enterprise funds because we split it between them. Um but the increase itself was a little bit lower than what we were projecting. Um so that'll hopefully move it in a in a positive direction. >> That's great. >> And I do have one other question. You
mentioned also that there was uh because of the unsettled contracts at DPW, some of them actually uh are this year as well as next year. And I'm assuming that retros then don't get paid until the total contract is settled. Is that correct?
>> Yeah. So the the the contract that they're working on will will be for this July 1st or the July 1st that just passed. So um so when that gets settled, you know, we have an estimate in the FY26 budget for for that contract. Um so how that estimate compares to what
actually settled will be an FY26 problem. Um but then so we have to estimate that and then 27 on top of that. >> Okay. Because so you answered my other question and that is that the money for this year is in u estimated in this year. >> Yeah. There was a placeholder put in um
the budget for it. >> Got it. Are there any other questions of the town for the moment? >> Okay. Then we're going to go to the schools and I let's go to um Deb U element the elementary schools.
Please unmute. Sorry. Um the element now I have to go back to the other screen. Sorry. Here we go. Sorry. The elementary schools are looking at a level services budget, which we know is
not where we're going to end up, but that's is where we start the calculations with of um 31 million, which is a 9.8% increase from last year.
Um, with a 3 and 1/2%, not the 2 and 1/2%, with the 3 1/2% that is a increase of 700,000 and a projected
deficit of 2 million. No. Okay. Sorry. Ignore the 3 and a half%. At the 2% level, the projected deficit is $2 million. I don't have it broken out. Um, but the
increase in risks and benefits, that whole category, which contains the health insurance, is 17%. It's a million a million dollars. So it's not um you know it's basically
the increase the two and a half increase is 70% of what we're expecting that entire category to increase by separate from the any other parts of the budget. Did
your level services budget build on the 4% plus the additional percent from last year? So the level services is just >> level services. >> I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Sorry. I was just repeating what
Lyn is asking. Yeah. Sorry. >> Could you refine the I didn't understand the question. >> So what was the base you used to do level services? Was it the budget last year with the 4% or the 4% plus the additional 1%?
>> I don't know. Deb, can I add? Um, >> yes, please. >> So, I So, I think the So, the I'm just got the Is it okay if I share my screen? It might be easier to please the screen. >> Can you see the table on the screen? >> Not yet.
>> Not yet. Now, we can. >> Now you can. Okay. Um, so level services, they're projecting 31 million, which is about a a 9.8% increase. this 29 million down at the bottom. So that is the 3 and a.5% increase. >> Okay.
>> From the town, but I think the difference I'm not um the superintendent or Shannon can confirm. I think what this 2.51 is is because we took away the because the additional funding was not included in the base that it's it
probably feels like a 2.5% increase um versus a 3.5% increase because that uh what is it? 355 or 269,000 wasn't carried forward in the initial projections. Um but with the three and a half% increase, um there's a gap of 2
million. >> Okay. Um Kathy, you have your hand up. >> Uh yeah, and Deb, I don't expect you to be able to answer this question. So, it's a question when for when the superintendent comes or that we can
send. When I went and looked at the numbers in more detail, I we got these Tuesday night. I'm not sure these have been adjusted yet for going from three elementary to two elementary. Um for big
ticket items like fewer principles, vice principles, fewer librarians, fewer not class. So I'm not sure it has been adjusted yet. Um uh I think it I think it's more like level staff in terms of
if all staff were still working. So it's a question has it been adjusted at all? And that would affect multiple lines. Clearly it affects the salary line. It affects the um health insurance line because health insurance for fewer
people would be a lower. So it was a basic question I had when I saw these numbers. um going forward. And I think everyone on this call knows, you know, I was part of I have been I still am the chair of the
building committee and we went through an exercise required for MSBA to do a best guess on the types of employees, you know, going through everyone who's employed by elementary that would be most likely to be reduced
when we were in two rather than three. So that's question one on I don't think that's been done yet. So it's a basic question. The second is I don't think on the other side the um cost of having the sixth grade in the middle school is in
here other than the cost of the sixth grade teacher you know cost of the our staff that would be now over in the middle school. I don't think rent is in yet. So those were my two basic questions of on the lower the budget
side, do we have all the staff adjustments and on the raise the budget side, um do we have an estimate of putting them in the middle school, both the rent, but to the extent we're going to have any prata if we're
piggybacking on some of the services, so not just the floor space. So that those were my two on the elementary school budgets that I think probably only Shannon knows for sure what what staffing is behind the salary lines.
>> I'm going to uh come back to councelor Hani Hanigi but go to Deb Leonard. >> That is my understanding Kathy. The the the cost of the uh what are we calling it? Chestnut Street Academy is the new name of it. the sixth grade um has not
been presented and um the spreadsheet that you sent me that had the estimates of the reductions I'd shared with Dr. Jersey when you sent it to me a week or so ago. Um but they have yet to compare
that to the existing um so that was developed in 20121 and they have yet to compare that or present a comparison to the existing staffing structure. So obviously we can't reduce
um positions that have already been reduced and I don't really know beyond the spreadsheet what what was involved in that and to the best of my understanding I don't have access to any of the documents that um >> no so as I said I didn't think you would
know for sure and it just so everyone understands there wasn't rocket science that was done in 2022 it went across and said three cafeterias two cafeterias three gyms, two gyms, you know, three schools, each of which has a principal
and vice principal. So, it went >> not for par profofessional or teachers assuming the children would still be taught. Um, so and that was my basic question because when I looked at it, it didn't look like that had happened yet and I can understand why
>> Kathy, >> it has not. >> There are utility savings in the projection because the utility utility line's going down by over,000 That was the one I saw and Shannon's explanation of why it wasn't 100% of the two schools
made sense to me. You know, you know, looking at again that the new building won't have any electric costs and won't have any heating costs because it's um all electric with solar setting it off. So, we had done estimates of that
savings, but some of that gets offset by the fact that Wildwood stays open for a piece of the time. you know, it's not immediately closed and Eversource may not give us a dollar for-doll increase on the electric bill um depending on where town has to enroll us in smart.
But any I did understand and she picked up it was only slightly lower than what the rough estimate would have been using this year's budget. So that's why Sean I just didn't think given I I I can't see from the numbers.
So it was a basic question on that. Yeah. Yeah, at that one. Councelor Hani. >> Yeah, similar questions on the payroll projections. Um, during the presentation, and this one goes for elementary and region because Shannon
made during the presentation similar comments. Um, but it wasn't clear in the projections. Um, there were some comments that there were some positions, the one I remember is in facilities or a couple in facilities where the schools have been having trouble filling the positions that might
be included in the payroll line. Um, and so some costs on that were included now in the expense contract line, but I wasn't clear given the percentage increase in the payroll line whether those costs had actually been backed out
of the payroll line before colas and step increases were estimated in the payroll level services. So, I just wanted to ask for clarification on on whether those those moves had actually been backed out of the payroll line
before we see the in elementary school 7.7% increase in payroll services. Um, and then I guess the question with the 7.7% in payroll services is um do we know what the COLA contract is? What
contracts are unsettled? and um how these projections were made um given regarding the step increases cuz cola presumably applies to all payroll. Step increases presumably only applies to those that haven't met met the maximum
step cuz I'm trying to understand better how that increase is estimated for elementary at 7.7% when I think cola might be around three or lower. Um, so and I could be wrong on the COLA increase because I just don't
know. So I I' I'd really like some information on what that COLA increase in the contracts are and then how those step increases were estimated in these these budgets at this this time. Um, and I I know Deb that you probably can't answer any of that. Um, so I don't
necessarily expect you to be able to answer it. And then I had a question regarding the superintendence update and sixth grade projections. Um, in the update on Tuesday, there was a statement
that said addressed student feedback regarding designating their own space by dedicating the entire second floor as the sixth grade wing. Um, and I'm curious whether that is an accurate statement for a number of reasons. What
is the cost of entire and dedicating the entire second floor as a sixth grade wing? Um, and for the region, where do the seventh and eighth graders go if they're not using any classrooms on the sixth grade? And maybe I missed
questions like that at the meeting on Tuesday, but I kind of wanted to know whether that was an accurate statement because that seems to have a lot of budget implications for both budgets, >> Deb. So, in reverse order, there is no
plan to give the um the sixth graders an entire uh floor. So the two plans have them in a whole hallway or part of a or like an elbow. So I I'm guessing that
addressed means spoke to them about that expectation. Um and uh not granted that request. Um, in terms of can you I know that that one line the HVAC was moved out out of
payroll, but you said moves and I I don't know what the other one would be. You're muted. >> I think Shannon talked about a couple of facilities positions and then maybe somewhere else. This is where I I didn't take >> good notes during the com and and some
might have been talked about at the region meeting and some at the elementary meeting. I guess I'm trying to figure out if they were backed out before we saw the projected 7.7% increase, that projection is actually then larger than 7.7 if some numbers
were some positions were already backed out. >> Yeah, that's >> before making those projections. >> Yeah. No, it's it's a total Shannon question, but that that's what I was trying to figure out. And I'm pretty sure again this is just guesswork um
that that increase does reflect an expectation of how all the contracts will land but there the but the largest one the APA is not yet finalized
>> there. Am I correct that there's also another contract that's not finalized? >> I think we're all done. >> APA is the >> APA. >> APA. Okay. >> Okay. You're right. So when I say I think I'm all done.
>> APA was finalized. >> But does it like all the way through just like the APA is? Okay. >> No, I mean APA is signed and sealed. >> Okay. Um, APA is still waiting ratification by the union.
>> Okay. >> And that's all three, right? I mean, there's three groups within that group. So, it's that's the vast majority of the payroll. >> It is the vast majority of the payroll. >> Yeah. >> And and do we know is it public yet what APA settled at?
>> I think so. >> If it's not, don't venture. Well, if it's all ratified, then it must be. I I feel like it's >> we feel like we we voted it >> voted it in public. >> So it should be 2.533. >> Yes. But 2.5 for this year the
>> but there were also a few they also raised the longevity >> payments to make them in line with um committee action employees but those were the really only two financial implications to the contract. But the
2.5 is for FY26 and the three is for FY27 because we're in the first year of that contract already. >> Yes, you are correct. >> All right. So there's money in this present budget for that back pay. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> In contingency.
>> I mean I think that that money gets paid out of the fiscal year 26 budget. >> Right. >> So it's not in the fiscal year 27 budget. >> Right. >> Yeah. It's in the budget you're in now. >> Correct. >> Okay. Got it. Kathy, you have your hand
up. >> Yeah. And this is one that I just want to put on the table because I don't think it can be answered yet. And this flips to the regional side. Anna, if we Anna, if we have the sixth grade in the middle school, it
will be paying some kind of rent. So the regional budget will need to reflect that it's getting revenues from the town of Ammerst and that hasn't happened yet. I mean it hasn't happened yet. My assumption is because we don't know yet what we're paying. The superintendent
said on Tuesday night they're they're going through you know what that might actually look like. And Sean may have more to say. I'm just saying that the same way I said it's not it's not may not fully be in our elementary school budget. I don't think it's been accounted for in the regional budget
either. >> That's probably fair. I think uh also um there's some discussion about who actually needs to approve the rent amount and whether more than $100 per
classroom per year year can be or month can be charged. And so there's like just a bunch of questions about how the rental agreement can be structured and then um who is in charge of approving
that agreement. >> Yeah. You know so I didn't you know that's for those that the regional agreement literally has that number in it. So the question is it does is that is that the number and um >> you know and then >> you know we just have a range of
questions and I know the superintendent is still developing this you know the um so that that's my point on its revenue for one side and its expense for the other side. >> Yes. Um Deb you have your hand up.
>> Yeah I had a question Kathy. You said that um the region should expect revenue from the town, but don't you mean the re the region should expect revenue from the elementary schools,
>> right? Well, I think of here's the elementary school budget and the town pays most of it with a few offsetting of your revolving funds. So, the town will see embedded in an elementary school budget a cost for this. yet the town
won't be paying it directly or who knows how we're going to do the accounting and all of this, but there'll be something called the Chestnut Hill School or Academy as a line item in here. And so it it's just the two pieces. It's not in
and and just for the uh library people um the projected numbers on both sides are bigger than the total increase for the town for everything. We have a total
projection of 2.5 million. So on the elementary school and the regional side, we've got uh big big differences right now in terms of the money that's available. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh are there any Anna Anna, are
there any other things you would like to say about the regional budget? And I know Sean, you are prepared to pull it up if you need to. >> There was a small update that was sent out. Um, Shannon had said something about not accounting
for the END deduction from the budget, but when I looked at the the different budgets, I couldn't really understand what the difference was. So, it wasn't totally clear to me how that worked out. There
was a new table with projected reductions based on the total budget. Sorry, sorry, total a new table with different allocations based on different total reductions to the budget and the
numbers are a little bit different. And so the the most recent budget that has Amoris contributing a and it it's like a 3.52% increase over last year instead of a
3.5% increase over last year. So it's only a very very and I don't know exactly why it's 3.52 instead of 3.5. And I don't really know any like but um let me just pull that table up. It was
>> Sean, you have that table. We placed it in the packet that's publicly available. >> The revised one, Lynn. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, it has >> Okay, let me grab it. H I 21,944,000 21,9 944825
which is a $120,219 lower than what it would be if it were fully done. And then like the the total for the 2.06 06 million reduction, which is a 3.5%
3.52% increase for Ammerst. So, the actual numbers aren't there, but um >> do you want me to share it, Lyn? >> Please do. >> Okay, let me make it a little bigger if I can. >> This is the update, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um
>> Yeah. >> So, so I think This is the part that we look at or I look at most closely is the Ammeris assessment. So in order to fund the level services budget of 4.6 with no no reductions um the Ammeris
assessment would have to go up 11.7%. >> Eight and but then there's the END return which would bring it down to 11.15%. So that's if that's if we take the END we get back this year and apply it kind of give it back to the the regional
>> school. Yeah. >> And can I just ask while we have this up here that down below is where we have the four town breakout. >> Yeah. Right. >> That is the percentage that based on the present formula.
>> Correct. >> So that's based on the regional agreement different allocations. Yeah. And >> then we have the E and D applied later on. Okay. >> And then and then if Sean scrolls down a little bit more, you'll see where they gave a not that one. Well, the tiny
thing down at the bottom that would it take, you know, Ammeris has so far said about three and a half. So that requires a $2 million reduction. So that's that tiny table down at the bottom. And yes, >> 2 million would get us to 376. So you
know what you're seeing is uh the town of Pelum all the way through has a really big increase and and then as does Leverett depending on where you are. So it's that's one of the issues that that region is going to be
facing that uh for the small towns even if we manage to get down to the three and a half it's a percentage increase that's large >> than anything. So that's just my
observation on a again my framework is total increase for the town is two and a half million for Ammerst the our whole budget not >> right >> and it's so >> okay uh Deb did you want to comment on this and then I'm going to go to
councelor Han >> it can wait it was just about the next four towns meetings not about this specifically >> oh okay councelor Hani >> um yeah so A couple of questions, similar ones. I'm not going to repeat them regarding the payroll lines that I
had for the elementary school. Um, just some clarifications there. Uh, do we know yet um where Pelum's guidance is on their year increase on the assessment? Um, and then two other
questions. There was a proposal for a change in start times for the high school and I guess potentially the elementary schools. I'm not clear if the high school start time change includes a middle school start time change, but um how does what what is the potential cost
to transportation budget if those start time proposals go through and and start times are changed? I guess that's that's one of the things. And are those potential costs included in these budget projections at this time or not? Um, I
think given the cost of transportation and the contracts that are out there, that could have some severe impacts to one or the other or both regions. And so I'm curious whether those potential costs are already built into the projections or not. Um, and what they
might be if the start times do change um or only one changes and another, you know, there's two there's a lot of variables too and I I recognize that. Um, and then region and elementary. There was some mention at the region of negotiations regarding field maintenance
and paying for field maintenance. Um, and then there's just a question at the elementary on decommissioning Wildwood. Uh, do we know what the status of those are? I know Wildwood cannot be decommissioned until everyone is moved out, but are have there been conversations regarding those two about
when things might happen um since the timing of those decisions or the timing of a Wildwood decommissioning or for field maintenance, whatever happens there. Um regarding agreements have potential effects on municipal budget and potential need for the council to
relook at budget guidelines depending on what what those agreements and all say. So, do we have and that might be better for Sean to answer for some of that. Um, but you know, in terms of field maintenance, but do we have any idea where those stand? >> Sean, do you want to start or
>> I can I can take the field maintenance one. So, um, you know, still working with Paul on this. Um, but we've had sort of initial conversations around ways to fund the field maintenance for a year or two. Um, and if we're able to do
that with ways the town could help fund the field maintenance, um, that would help reduce that gap because my understanding in the region budget is there's a, um, I don't know 90 $100,000 or some somewhere in that range for field maintenance um, of the new field.
So, we're looking at ways we might be able to help relieve that burden. Um, and it's sort of operational because we need to get something in place for field maintenance as early as this spring. And you know, I think neither the schools nor the city or the town are are fully
equipped to dive right into that. So, that is something that will likely come to you to the council in January uh when we certify free cash um and bring our transfers. uh you'll likely see something around field maintenance, but that if that gets approved and goes through, that'll um uh relieve a little
bit of pressure on the region budget, but it's intended to be a short-term um a short to medium-term solution, not a permanent solution. >> Okay. And that really uh that's the that's the discussion regarding field
maintenance of the Wildwood decommissioning. Um let Deb, you have your hand up. Is that >> I just wanted to make sure people knew about the four towns meeting that's been penciled in for January 10th. >> Okay. You do know that >> 9:30 at the middle school library.
>> Yeah. And then um the plan is not to decommission Wildwood this year. Um we will be running it this summer >> or summer programs, right? >> The summer programs because um uh there's going to be work done on
Crocker. So there no won't be there. Um those transportation changes would not be included in the budget. It's just too early for us to know whether or not that's going to go through to have those numbers and what that's going to mean.
Um but also the the start time is does apply to the middle school, not just the high school. Um if it p if it goes through. And secondly, the transportation is partially
or substantially reimbursed by the state. So only a portion of the in differences in transportation costs will be uh absorbed by the districts
>> for the region. >> For the region, right? >> Not for the not for the elementary schools. >> Not for the elementary schools. Oh, because it's there's no reimbursement for a town, just for the region. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And then the last part of that is
that what was it? I lost it. There is a potential start time change for the elementary, but it's not clear how long term it is or when it will be. That's all I got. >> Okay. And we're still in discussions
about the start time in general. So nothing is confirmed about that yet. >> Okay. >> There was a question asked about Pelum's guidance and the only thing that I can communicate is unofficially uh the chair of the finance committee in
Pelum has said that if Ammerst went to 3.5 they would have to go out for an override. That was the only thing I um know from Pelum. Kathy. >> Uh, yeah, this is just for Sean again, longer term. If if Wildword is
decommissioned and it hits FY27, so as Deb just said that it's going to or three quarters of FY27 because June and July, does the town have to start booking any costs for Wildwood? And you know, I and
my it's sort of a question of are we going to lock the doors? Do we have to do something to worry about the pipes freezing? And it's I don't expect you to answer it right now. And the South Ammer school, I know we kind of just locked the doors, but I you know, to to what
extent is there some minimal utility cost that that has to be written in somewhere it, you know, decommission I'm assuming decommissioning is also turning it back over to the town. you know, I mean, it really uh so that Wildwood appears somewhere in somebody's budget
with small numbers hopefully. >> Yeah. There um so South Ammerst campus is on the on the town budget and there's a small a small facility budget for it because it's not used heavily. Um so I imagine when it is turned back over to the town, something will happen along
those same lines, it'll probably be a little bit bigger because it's a bigger much bigger facility. But um but hopefully it'll be greatly reduced from what its costs are now. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anna, I just want to make sure I know you're in the car and um I just
>> I'm still here. >> I I I knew you were still here. At least you hadn't gone off the screen, but I know it's hard to raise your hand. Did you have any questions? >> No, so far I think that the questions I have have either been asked or I'm saving them for four towns. I think that they're not they're more appropriate for
that venue. Okay, thank you. Is are there any other comments Anna heard from the region? >> Uh I I don't think so. I think um I I'm trying to remember
uh in our last meeting I think the biggest thing was trying to get some more specifics from the town about where their budget is standing. And I if I if am I not remembering correctly, I thought that um the idea was that all of
the other departments were going to try to get tenative budgets back at some point, but the schools have already gotten their projected budgets, you know, different scenarios out and
that the next kind of step in the discussion process was getting better numbers from the other groups is I could be wrong. >> Um Sean, I'm glad you raised your hand because this really gets to the issue of
the town quote producing level services budgets >> or something >> are something that shows what our real costs of non-personnel are. >> Yeah. So, there's a request from the finance committee for some additional information this year. And I think the
our um town manager still, you know, seeing what we can do, but I think if there was going to be something provided related to that request, it would it's going to be in February. Um our budget process is just later than the schools. The schools have to have their budget done by the end of March. Um and ours
doesn't the full budget doesn't get submitted until May 1st. Um, so right now we're at the point of sending out budget workbooks to our department heads and those budget workbooks that we send out to department heads in the next week or two will
um hopefully frame some of the information that this group is looking for and the finance committee is looking for in terms of what you know here's what your operating budget is now, but what would it need to be um to fully um fund everything you want to do or everything you're currently doing without having to
to rely on other savings in other areas. Um we are currently looking at some history too going back through our departments to see which departments have been overspending their operating expense budgets. Um meaning that they would have you know the only way they would have done that would if they were
relying on vacancy savings. So we're doing a little bit of history gathering as well just to see which departments are the ones that are most impacted by it. Um but that's that's where we're at this point is sort of starting to pull all that data together. Can I can you remind me what the Ammerst Town fiscal year is?
>> Uh, so it's the it's all the same as the schools. It's July 1st through, but just in terms of the budget calendar, um, you know, we really kick off our budget development about a month or two later than you do uh, on the school side because your budget has to be voted by
the end of March and you have to have a hearing before that. So, um, I think the good news is, you know, even having these numbers in December for the schools is really helpful. they it wasn't always the case that these numbers were available this early. And I think the opportunity that all the elected officials have is to start
talking with our our state elected officials about what the budget's going to look like because um while it's unlikely we'll get more chapter 70, you know, you might have luck getting more charter tuition reimbursement or more um circuit breaker funding or some other
source that can help close this gap a little bit. Um, I think it's just, you know, having an 18% increase in health insurance gives you a really strong a really strong argument to go to the state and say like you need to help us with this because there's no way uh, you know, locally this can be covered. Um,
so that's the good news I think about having this information so early is that there's time um, to start doing some of that. And Sean, I just want to go back to the concept of quote departments that have used their
position money, their unfilled position money for operating. That doesn't mean they don't need those positions. >> No, it just means that in that particular year they had a vacancy. Um, and you know that I would say that we're going to look at again to see what departments it happens to most, but
typically it's going to be your larger departments that have more staff. It's not I don't think it's something that is common in our smaller departments, but it's going to be your larger departments that have um you know multiple staff that there's typically vacancies every year,
>> right? Um and what about the issue of place uh departments that have said traditionally they have needed more staff? Does that come in at this point too? Um well, some of the guidelines that we
received from the finance committee is to um and councelor Hanniki, correct me if I'm wrong, but to uh look at a a plan for fire. Um we know that there's, you know, we're trying to come up with a plan for roads, which is not staffing, but yeah, but there's a plan around
roads. Um and then obviously figuring out how we can support the schools. So, um all that is in the big pot as we develop the budget in terms of priorities. >> Okay. Uh, Deb Leonard. >> So, I just had a a process question,
Sean. In in the schools, as you know, if we have an unfilled vacancy position, so extra money in payroll and we we need more money in another line. We have to vote to do that. >> How does that work at at the town level when you have more in one pot and less
in another and you need to realign them? >> Yeah. So, within the general fund budget, we can move monies around. We typically don't do um we typically hold our departments to spending within their allocation though. Um so if there was
like a major shortage or or um a department needing more money uh we would discuss that with the finance committee at our when we do our quarterly budget reports. But typically um but because the way the council votes align it a bottom line budget we can shift between different cost centers
within the general fund budget. Um, but we try not to we try to stick within the the original budget. >> Is there any guidance like 10% or something that needs to at least get some level of higher up approval? >> Um,
not that I'm aware of. Again, if it's within the general fund budget, um, the number that's approved. >> Okay. >> Again, it's different different than when we had town meeting because back when we had town meeting, it was different. the um the budget that was voted in town meeting was sort of by function. So back then money could be
shifted within functions between uh within the function but not between functions, right? >> Um so if like public safety funds could be moved around but you couldn't move public safety to um planning conservation and development. Um but now that we have a a different form of government, it's different.
>> Okay. Thank you, Kathy. You know, I just wanted to I mean, Sean, you can tell me if I I'm trying to restate some of what he said. If you look at our quarterly reports or end of the year reports, what you can see is that um the departments
have a total that has both the non-personnel expense and the payroll expense and they rarely at the end of the year are higher than that amount. But underneath it, what we discovered last year is that a DPW or a police or a
fire, their expense budget, non-personnel had gone up, but because they had a vacancy, their total was okay, you know, and so one of the questions I have, Sean, as you're starting to look at this, if we are
always running a vacancy in a department, at what point do we say it can be staffed at a lower level? So, it's just a generic question because some are we didn't have a planning director. We didn't have a finance director. These were key positions that
um in this current f fiscal and last fiscal year, but in some it looks like there's one or two vacancies every year and and I it's it's a question. You know, Lynn said, do we need more staff? But it's
also I don't know whether it's we're unable to hire people because our salaries aren't competitive and we desperately need a particular person. We just can't find one. So it's it will be a question for later that I have on always running a vacancy.
>> Yeah. On the on the town side, there's there's not a position that I can think of where it's the same position every year. Um, again, when you have, you know, 20 patrol officers, you're gonna likely have a patrol officer vacancy, but it's not the same position. You know what I mean? You're filling positions
and then different positions are becoming vacant through promotions, other other things. So, um, on the town side, there's not a situation that I can think of where it's the same position except there might be maybe one in DPW where it's sort of related to like the type of skill set that you need. Um, but
other than that, I can't really think of any that are recurring. So, these positions are being filled. they're just they're you know we have two to 300 employees so there's going to be turnover throughout the year. >> Okay. on the school side just um school side they have a similar challenge but theirs is more related to finding people
that can fill those roles and so there is a you know there's a decision point at a a certain point where you have to decide am I going to fund this as a position or fund it as a contracted service but either way you still need to fund it one way you know so a lot of like the psychologist positions or speech language pathologist positions
it's hard to find people to fill those roles um especially ones that have a bilingual skill set um so it doesn't mean they don't need the they don't need the service, but they might need to budget for it differently um if they can't find people and so that's a I'm sure an annual conversation in their
office. >> Um so the final thing on our agenda today is to then go back to the question we asked last time. we still may not be answer have an answer for it and that is are there any
comments, questions or state excuse me statements that the group would like um to discuss and have the town manager consider as guidelines in formulating the budget.
>> Austin, you have your hand up. So this is less of a formulation of this budget but and and I think we're moving towards it by asking people to you know kind of tell us what they actually would need to keep things where they are.
But I wonder if we could have a conversation as a group about what we would need to do to make Ammerst even more livable than it currently is.
I just have the feeling that year after year we're slipping further behind and we're doing the best we can and the town manager and the finance director, the council are, you know, managing the heck out of this process,
but I just come away year after year with the sense that um uh we're we're losing ground in lots of places And um I know that there's the prop 2 and a half. I know there all those
constraints, but I just wonder if at some point we could have a conversation. What would it take uh to kind of address the town's pressing needs? >> Outstanding question. And um Deb
Leonard, you had your hand up. I don't know whether you want to. By the way, having asked an outstanding question, I have to jump off to go to another Zoom. So, hopes hopefully somebody can report what the outstanding answer was. >> Okay. And not only that, but this is the
meeting's being recorded. So, yes. Uh Deb, you have your hand up. >> I don't have a specific statement to make about the budget guidelines in particular. and and Sean's point is
lands well as to how our state government is going to help us. But if this needs to come out of the budget, we're looking at 3 million at the region and 2 million in the schools and I really just don't
know what would be left. I mean, we've been cutting. We c cut in the end, I think it was 12 positions or eight positions. It just as the budget rolls out, we cut less and less and I mean more and more over the years
cumulatively. And it's I think the the side conversations are I don't know how we're going to do that. I just don't know how we're going to meet those kinds of reductions this year.
So, I know that's not the answer to the question you asked, but that's where we're at right now. >> Um Kathy, >> um probably Sean's is more propo, but I was going I was responding to Austin who's just left. Um it we might at the
some other level. I'm not sure Lynn and BCG it's the right level but uh one of the things that's unusual about the town of Ammerst is our major employers are tax exempt. So we have a property tax base that although it's high per
thousand it's on a fraction of the value of what sits in our town. um where um Northampton has Smith, but Smith uh actually pays more into their budget than Ammeris College does. But it's the when I when I was looking to just give
you a bird's eye view when I was looking at our um debt exclusion amount that we had to ask our taxpayers to pay for our schools. If I used the same dollars in the town of Ammerst and applied it to the town of
Northampton on taxpaying entities, it was much much lower because I was dividing by 13,000 rather than seven in terms of taxpaying entities, you know. So that's one of the realities that's squeezing us every year. And then as Deb
just jumped in, uh the decline in state dollars as a share of our budgets, whether it's the Pelum budget or the Amoris budget or the school budget, whatever, that decline is pushing it all back down to the property tax. Um so I think it would be a good healthy
discussion to have people understand why their tax dollars don't seem to be buying what they used to be buying. And it's because, you know, the tax dollars can't keep up with a loss of revenue and on a restricted tax base. I would just I
think that's it's not a how do we what do we do with that? Um there are some legislative policy proposals, pilots, and some other things that would help dramatically, but it's not within the borders of our town
um in terms of an immediate fix. But I I think it just might be a good public forum kind of thing for people to understand the the kind of boxes we've been put into over time, not not yesterday, but over a number of years. >> Thank you, Sean.
>> Um, so I we do have an economic development director now, which is great. And so that is one of the things that we're going to one of the numbers I've talked to him about is getting him the figure what would we need annually in terms of new revenue in order to keep up with our level services at the
schools and at the um and on the city side and on the library side. So um so it's it is something we're working on and I think it's also related to councelor Hannaki's request in terms of information for the finance committee. And I'll just also highlight the one Kathy just mentioned is the pilot
reform. I mean, that's the one that could be a real gamecher for us because we are unique in how much exempt land we get or we have. Um, and I know it's tough, but it doesn't I don't see why that has to be a 5-year process if we can make, you know, if we can get movement at the at the state level with our legislators. Um, because that's
really what's extremely unique about our town is how much land is taken up um that by nonpropy taxpaying entities. >> Councelor Han. Um, yeah, I just wanted to to
respond to Deb with a the $3 million number was what was put out last week at the region, but with the updated numbers from the today um it's now to the 3 million was sort of a to meet Ammerst's budget guidelines um from the current
projected level services at the region, but given what came out today, it's actually 2.06 06 um to meet Amoris's guidelines, not 3 million according to the document you sent out, Deb. Um so for the region. Um so I just
wanted to unless I'm misunderstanding that and then we should put that document back up to help me understand it better. Um but yeah, so it's I'm not saying that's not severe. It's just less severe than it it was. Um um yeah I to
answer Austin or try try and do that I think I think we need the conversation the question is trying to figure out how we have that conversation with the residents Sean what you just said about finding out figuring it out how much new revenue we would need you know just estimating numbers based on what we're
seeing from the schools I'm scared that it's like $6 million a year you know which is probably not not sustainable. Um 6 million on top of the two and a half that we're we've got budgeted, right? And it doesn't seem
like that would be sustainable. But how do we I think the council's job is to figure out how we have that conversation with the people in a robust manner where we're hearing from a large swath of the people and residents about
not just their concerns but how what what choices they would make. um would they make a choice to do a Prop 2 and a half override and then grant it or would what choices would they make where in
terms of cuts to services or something if we can't do it? Um and and I think we have to find out as a council figure out how to have the conversation and structure that conversation so that it's productive and useful for groups like BCG and the schools and the council. I
don't have any great ideas though. Um so uh interestingly enough the group that um I'm part of it with MMA has been having this conversation um we've done it now at a couple of our different uh
webinars or actually mentoring things where we've actually been listening to other towns as to what they do and one of the things many of them have been doing is they start with a lot of public information sessions about the budget
and how it works and the extent to which um different parties contribute and um I have made note of the different towns that have used this strategy and most of them have done that as they've gone for
overrides. Um, on the topic of overrides, it does seem to me that if we start giving estimates, our override is also going to have to include what is our estimate for an annual contribution to get our roads and sidewalks back up to shape as well, as well as what the
school might need or the town or the library might need. Um, and I think that's a a tough question because people keep saying, we all hear them, I pay all these taxes and why aren't my roads better, uh, and so forth. So, I think
it's a broad question that includes the schools and includes our expectations of the schools for quality education, but also includes other town services. And then finally, um, the good news and the bad news. The good
news is that the state uh the governor has formed a commission around pilot. It's around the state formula for pilot which only impacts in this case UMass and other state land um of which we have a little bit but not much. And the goal
is to try to not penalize the cape uh for the fact that their land is just valued higher because of real estate values, but to uh make sure that towns and cities in western Mass and other parts of the state that have large state
holdings uh might get a more equitable share that is balanced off against property value. That's the good news. The good news is that Senator Cmerford and Natalie Blle are both on that
commission. The bad news is, and I've already had more than one frustrating conversation about this, as has uh councelor Andy Steinberg, who's been on the finance committee at for MMA, and that is that they have not acknowledged
that they need to look at what's on that land and how many people come to it every day, which is what makes it different for Ammerst and the other 29 public higher education institutions.
And frankly, I um one of my goals is to work with those 29 public higher ed education institutions and bring that um forward in the hearings that that comm that committee has. I did check when we were talking with Senator Commerford the
other day and the commission has not even met once. So, it's not on a fast track. The irony is that would not impact either of Ammeris College or Hampshire College because they fall under more the pilots for nonprofits.
And I will just tell you that the bill for the pilots pilots for nonprofits at the state level has been dead on arrival every year. It's come up and it's because the largest nonprofits in the state are in fact hospitals and
healthcare is one of our five biggest industries. And so they basically make sure they lobby very hard to not have nonprofits um included in a pilot kind of program. All of these have you know levels like
you had to endowments at this level or your budget had to be that that level or whatever the case may be. So it pilots I think are something Sean I'm I couldn't agree with you more. I don't understand why it's taking so many years to get a change here except for lack of money. Uh
and uh it's a high priority personally for me and I know for a couple other counselors that have talked about it as well for the coming year that I think it's something we need to do. We need to do it for Ammeris because we are such an unusual town in which our property is so
um large largely owned by either UMass or other nonprofit higher ed institutions. Uh Deb Leonard. Yeah, I was. Yes, I was misremembering uh counselor Haniki. So, 2 million and 2 million. Thank you for that correction.
I'll try to get it into my brain. Um just one of the things I'd like to point out um the economic development director's insight will be helpful, but one of the things that won't it won't help if we don't expand the economic
opportunities in the the other three towns. this is really not going to relieve the the pressure on the overall regional budget and nobody wants to leave the assessment method again methodology and that also has implications for any future potential regionalization. And I know that it's
supposed to be it has its benefits, but also because of the nature of Ammerst and its surrounding towns, it also creates a lot of mismatch between what as you're seeing with Pelum, what what towns can afford in terms of bumps and
what they can't. >> Thank you. >> Absolutely. Um, are there other comments on guidelines or on this topic? You know, I think that um hi Anna, we can see you. Um I think that you know,
Austin throws out a very good question. And it does raise the question of if we were going to join together as we should uh to um bring about an awareness and
thus possibly a change um in Ammerst and that would allow us to afford the education and other services and roads that we all feel we deserve. You know, how do we do that and what does that look like? So, that's what I'm hearing out of this conversation. Um, uh, Deb
Leonard, you need to unmute. >> Yeah, sorry. Just one more piece of information that is also new is that I do not think in that budget estimate that we got on Tuesday is included. Um,
we we had input from the early childhood education director on Tuesday that indicates that we will likely need to to cover mandated services for FY27. We will likely need to add another preschool classroom. Um, that's so
that's a space issue, but that's also a teacher and um pair professionals. I don't know how many but it's not a small um it's not a small change to our budget overall budget. Okay. Um so let me just
point out um on the 5th of January uh all of the bodies represented here uh have some level of well the regional school committee does and doesn't it doesn't do it in the same way I guess but all have some level of if you will
seating new people and reorganizing at that point uh the questions will come up as to who will be representing which bodies for um the um budget coordinating group and frankly many other committees as well. Um with that in mind, I I
didn't know what how you wanted to proceed on looking at future dates. I also do want to point out as Deb did earlier, we do have a four towns meeting at this point on our calendars for the 10th of January uh at 9:30. And um that
actually is a um opportunity for some of the questions that have been raised about this um about the budgets today which I want to thank people for you know the civilized conversation that
we're all having. Um, so, uh, thoughts, councelor Hani, >> I don't think it's appropriate to attempt to have this group schedule a new a next PCG because >> we have no idea whether any of us will
be a part of it, what's the >> new committee's form? I think that might be more of a question for um although I guess the the elementary school, one of the current BCG reps is is leaving the the school committee. Um so there has to
be at least one other um but at the town council it could change completely. Um, so I I think it should wait until any scheduling should wait until each body's designated their new representatives. And it might be best to wait until
February when we've got some of those numbers that finance committee was and and the council budget guidelines are asking for because that might be a better time to to reconvene and and talk about it when we've got the updated numbers. >> Yeah. and some of that information
>> and by then we we would know who's representing which bodies. >> I I agree with you. I wanted to raise it so that people were aware why I'm not asking us to identify a date. Uh because it's it's really uh premature to do so.
Um are there any other comments or questions or thoughts? Then I guess I would like to say enjoy your holidays and >> happy holidays everyone. >> Uh the meeting is adjourned. Okay. Thank
you. Bye everybody. Bye.