and uh so which um if and we we have done an override but it's been some time since we have and we're always very hesitant to even ask voters to consider it because we know our taxes are already
high uh but um if there if there's a need um into have a budget that is uh calling for increase in a year greater than two and a half% uh we can ask the voters to
consider uh doing that and that once an override is passed it actually increases the budget and then it doesn't go away it that 2 and a half% increase is actually a permanent
increase there's another provision within that same law that was passed to 19 1980 that says that if you have um a particular need to do something and uh
like building a building you can go for what's called a debt exclusion vote and the uh the term has to do with saying that you're going to exclude that particular debt from the
normal budget process and treat it separately and the debt exclusion U also raises the taxes to pay for that particular project over the period that you have uh borrowed the
money but once the money is paid back to build the building then that increase goes away that's what the dead exclusion was lar m thank you are there any other questions about the capital projects at this
time okay then uh yes go ahead please unmute yeah I was wondering if I don't know if now or in another part you're you would be talking about the rotaries that we've been building on Heatherstone they're
awful please just this mama with a big is just wanting to ask a lot of questions about that I I can uh I say a little bit because I'm uh I'm as a by the way I'm a counselor at
large uh which means that I you voted for me in the last election along with all of the other districts the uh and I'm chair of the Town services and Outreach committee and this is a topic that we talk about out
um there is a plan and we' always said that um we were going to do those rotaries as an experiment the reason that it was done was to try and make sure that when we uh smoothed out that
road both by removing that Center uh that was in the uh most northern section closest to Main Street uh that uh and then going south that would pick
up speed and we were people would drive faster in and the purpose of the mini roundabouts was to keep people from speeding um there were disadvantages to it too we recognized that there is a
plan that in um May um is the target month that we are going to hold a community meeting um probably by zoom and maybe in person we don't know and uh we want to
try and get input on whether that experiment of those many roundabouts has worked and at that point uh we would uh U consider whether to keep them or have
them removed uh but but uh that's a process that uh is is several months away yet before we do that assessment we wanted it to be in place long enough that people could experience it and offer
input Rich you had your hand up M rich mlan I I can wait for that meeting in in May okay all right Jason you have your hand up yeah thank you again um I've heard numerous times about these
roundabouts that were they were put in as an experiment and we're trying to see if they're working or not but I have yet to have anyone Define what is success and what is not success with these roundabouts how are we knowing and on a
side note um they're far too big and intrusive to allow emergency vehicles to go around them so I heard so many people say we can't put speed tables in and we can't put speed bumps in because
emergency vehicles can't go over them but we just put speed bumps in they are effectively speed bumps for emergency vehicles so um conversation or any thought about put
initially Jason what we learned what gford moing talked about was for them for large trucks and fire equipment it's you know fire trucks Etc and large delivery trucks they were supposed they were supposed to be low enough so that
the truck could a ride on part of it and it would be all right um I'm not sure that's working uh to me success would be traffic is not speeding through but um and there's there's a sense when I drive
that road because I live near there it it's obvious it makes me incredibly uncomfortable because a lot of them are pushed to the side closer to um the corner and it becomes very hard to maneuver around it and it's uh and
particularly if they're pedestrians and that's a lovely area to be walking there's always folks there um and when pedestrians are there it becomes even more difficult even if it's an emotional difficulty to navigate it so I don't
know so Angelica you have your hand up but can we go to Tom actually I was gonna go to Tom first yeah yeah I'm Tom warger I live on Alpine Drive and I had spoken up against the rotaries when uh when the questions were being
asked about them but now that they're in I actually like them very much uh first of all they are not a problem for emergency or other trucks I know that because our neighbors have had several ambulance calls in the last
couple of weeks school buses go up and down the street and most importantly for me ups and Amazon they definitely have no trouble coming in and out when I make the left turn from Heatherstone into
Alpine Drive I have to slow down I have to slow down to make that turn but it's not a problem also if you walk on Heatherstone and you watch somebody driving down the street you'll see that they do hit their brakes usually before
they get to before they get to the roundabout so you know the folks on Heatherstone complained for years that the street was so dangerous and there's never been an accident on Heatherstone now we have some traffic calming let's
see what people feel about it now thank you Tom Angelica I think it's related to Tom's comment and I'm wondering if uh when we're trying to determine if the experiment work we're going to be gathering information and if you could
explain more about that and I'm trying to think about all the people that are the affected interest of this and for me it's not just uh the emergency vehicles but also I'd love to get input from the schools and the school bus drivers because one big concern and again it's anecdotal from hearing from my kiddos
who just you just saw peek in but um the School by bus drivers have noted over and over just how challenging the rotaries have been so that's one issue it's like how can we together for those that may not be District 2 residents but are dealing with that as a lab every day
um and then number two is how to mitigate things like uh snow uh so one of the things I've noticed is that this year we had so much snow and it made it really difficult to see those rotaries it made it really challenging and constantly there's work that needs to be
done to put a little cone that also gets covered so it's it's it's a real challenge with you know with the snow um to even see those so I do worry and I wonder how we could figure out if it's posing any hazards during specific
different times of the year because of snow that may be covering the circumference and doesn't allow you to see or areas where it becomes difficult to take a 45 degree turn if you have a like a van or a vehicle like that and people uh I've noticed are now having to
go straight through to turn into roads like Albin wood like I live on on Hickory um Hickory Lane but when you try to turn into Au andwood it becomes really hard from the first from the second Rotary because there's just not enough space there to take that left turn um we'll see how spring does you
know as part of observing this I also want to just mentioned that I've I've had numerous people send me uh pictures and emails and uh upon invitation although I don't need an
invitation but I took one twice I came over and observed it during school traffic and watched the school buses have to go up one road turn around and then come back down because they couldn't go around the rotary right so yeah um are there any other questions on
this I see one more hand Liz hey good please um come on in there you are please unmute unmute yeah hi I do appreciate Mr varg's um comments Tom if you will about liking
the rotaries um and I don't live on Heatherstone and I am one of those folks that when route N is a danger to me I live on logtown I do cut into um Heatherstone and you know Gate House to Heatherstone and down uh Main Street
when I have to get into Town um I just want to point out that as a consideration for the um emergency vehicles and the school buses and everything um they do have to
navigate um our apartment complexes because Rolling Green has speed humps and so does Colonial in um puffton village and Village Park so if when you're considering that please keep that
in mind that the apartment complexes have a lot of traffic when it comes to our emergency vehicles and our school buses as well and they've been able to navigate the speed HPS going into our apartment complexes so that's all thank you Pippa you have your hand
up thank you just real quick um I live on Heatherstone and I want to say that this the um roundabouts have been very effective for the purpose for which they were designed which is to slow traffic there's no doubt that the traffic is is slower and I understand there's all
these other concerns but that was the purpose for them and they are being effective in that way that's all thank you Andy yeah um I just as Pat said earlier that that was
the purpose of the uh roundabouts was the to to slow traffic the alternative would have been to do speed humps as has been done on some other Town streets um
Lincoln Avenue in uh is one uh Cottage Street is another and uh they uh you know that could have been the alternative um Guilford moring the
superintendent of Public Works was very anxious to try this approach as a different way of doing it um I do think that there's U no higher than the speed humps are uh but uh we didn't know what
it was going to be like in the wintertime which is why we decided it would take um a full year to um really get an assessment of it or at least in get through a winter
season um and we that's the question and I the intention of the committee in uh when we do that forum is also to seek input not just from school bus drivers
but pbta also because there's a pvta route that goes through there and uh USA trucking and uh some of the major haulers that you've mentioned uh uh like
uh you know FedEx and UPS so uh we'll try and uh uh have a forum get as much input from as many people as possible and uh who use the street and rely on
the street consult our fire department um as to how they have felt about it and how it Compares for the difficulties of Lincoln and Cottage Street where we use speed humps and uh then move it along uh
to make a decision on what to do um Rebecca I brought you into the room and you had your hand up so please go ahead I'm gonna wait till May decided to bite my T thank you all right you still have your hand up
Pippa okay and Rich you have your hand up sorry I we discussed it enough that I thought I would just add my thought um I advocated for the um the mini roundabouts I'm still overall glad that
they're there um but I think it should be acknowledged that their installation was bungled um and then the attempts to come back and
um I guess fix the things that went wrong when they were first installed were really disappointing um and so I I as somebody who was really excited about them I was really disappointed to see
how they were ultimately executed okay so as Andy said there'll be um some kind of public meeting in um May and I know that he's already pledged to include Pat and I in that even though
we're not on TSO but it is our district and I have to say it's certainly something we've heard a lot about um we're if there's no other questions we are going to go and move on to the budget uh and I'm I want to take this on
in two different ways or a couple different ways first of all I we have some very good news to share with you and that is that today the town manager did announce to the finance committee and therefore it is public that um we are going to be able to go up
to a 4% increase for all of the levels of town which is uh we if you might recall we started at 3% back in uh November and sometime in um
January we got to 3.5 and we are now at 4.0 so that does help it doesn't solve everything but it helps um John you had your hand up please unmute can't hear
you you're muted John thank you very much um uh yeah I had my hand up I did want to mention something about the roundabouts and also a similar problem which is a traffic calming measure that you didn't anticipate and that is the
proliferation of potholes and deplan of uh neighborhood roads in Echo Hill um I want to thank the three of you for voting for the added
$500,000 um and then the $500,000 that didn't pass um for uh Road Renovations we've gone from having a $29 million deficit in Road reconstruction and Road repair to a 49 million doll
deficit that's the wrong way and I would like to see us commit to making some improvements in the roads Gate House Road is becoming extremely dangerous as people who are going up the hill are
using the left side of the road because the right side of the road is impassible um the DPW every year spends probably four or five mornings patching and uh trying to
make fixes to Gate House Road and um you just can't keep patching and patching and patching so I hope that um as neighbors that the three of us the three of you will advocate for Gate House Road
to be fixed not patched this year thank you I did by the way ask the town manager if we have the most recent list for this coming spring and I haven't received it yet so I either we don't have it or uh he didn't get to that
email Liz you have your hand up yes um part of the issue with I noticed Gate House Road and some of the other roads that have the destruction um of our roads Mr height if you look at the
side where it is it's because when you have the trees that hang over and the Dew stops from the trees and then it trickles down it deteriorates the roads so part of the issue is if you cut the leaves the branches back on the trees that are going over the roads and
then fix the road it alleviate alleviate a lot of the problem true can I I will just say I can't even make any excuses for amist roads they are without question my husband and I have been to
the interior of Russia the roads were better in the inter Russ than they are College Street gives me an aler especially when I go into the center of town I paid my exis tax and came home and I
no yeah uh Jason on this on this issue and then we're going to go to the budget yeah sry uh ly you mentioned that uh the all levels of town up to 4 know can you explain what that means yes
um first of all Andy just explained earlier generally we can only do a 2.5% or two and a half increase so any increase that we have in our budget comes from essentially new growth it certainly is not coming from the state
they're bleeding us dry and so by squeezing here squeezing there doing tighter estimates uh We've now gotten from 2 and a half to 4% increase on next year's
budget based on uh potentially cuts to Services uh no actually well there will be some cuts to services but um it's still ammer
basically can only generate about three and a half if we're lucky 4% based on new new growth every year and um that is you know about as far as we can go and
yet we are restricted by 2 and A2 to only be 2 and A2 so anytime we can come above two and A2 we've made progress because we've had New Growth now I have to be honest and say some people in town don't like that new growth because it's
those quote high-rise apartment buildings downtown or on University Drive or someplace else but those apartment buildings are in fact the new growth in ammer so that that
4.0 is coming from a combination of New Growth this year or cuts no it's coming from a combination of new growth and a 2 and a half% increase okay which is the standard it now then the question is what does the
budget look like like when people have to live within that okay and that we don't have the town manager's budget yet uh this we'll get the regional school budget um sometime in March and then we get the town manager budget which
includes the elementary schools the library and the town on May 1st and that's when we'll see where the Cuts really are um Lee I believe you had your hand up first uh and maybe talk about this with
the budget but I'm really glad to have the issue of new grow as a contribution to the budget making process in the town of amorist on the table and I'm wondering if there are plans
townwide to continue to have discussions about New Growth how it might happen what it might mean what might happen if we don't have new growth Etc there's two a couple different studies going on right now one is the downtown
design that's going on and that actually looks at New Growth and then the housing uh study that's going on also looks at needed need for housing um where they neither one of them is in final form yet
so how that looks um based on those studies we don't know yet but those are two two two contributing factors Pat I was just going to say the proposed University overlay which would allow for mixed use buildings would bring in both
commercial and housing um and we're you know I think that's something that we really need to consider U and that's part an area that's particularly um accessible by students as well as other residents in
town thank you uh Rich you have your hand up yeah could you please discuss why it's a 4% across theboard uh increase and not a flexible
amount of budget change for the year um there's history to that but it's not just history um just as um each each unit of government if you will has their
um budget pressures whether it be contract negotiations increase in fuel increase in cost of uh vehicles I mean today we just heard that with the new tariffs Vehicles may go up another four 4,000
and that's just a car um you know so these things are not cheap and each each of the three groups of government the schools and the uh Town itself and the library each have these kinds of
pressures uh the cost of heating is another example the big budget breaker this year for all of us was Healthcare and we started out with an almost 20% and we've gotten it down below 16 and that's because our com our
group that looks at it which includes membership across all of our unions um made some concessions on what their benefits will look like uh 4% decrease in that was huge this year so it there's
a lot of there's a lot of moving parts to budgets and people think oh it's like just this or it's that it's not it's everything it's fuel it's it's maintenance it's um salaries sta salaries it's it just goes on and on and
every unit of government has them Kitty I'm I'm sorry I don't feel that get necessarily addressed why it's a static bump to every part of of
government yes I understand that yeah budgets are stressful and and there are un unforeseen expenses this year but why is it have to be everybody gets three and a half everybody gets 4%
one of the things more flexible in in meeting places where yeah every there stressors for all of the Departments but maybe some places in town government have crises going on I think every place right now in our
town has got some crisis going on in terms of Staffing and and maintenance of buildings and Facilities absolutely and you know I'm one of the things that I I grew
up in a very workingclass family um and uh in Trenton New Jersey and that's significant because workingclass people are often treated differently uh they're seen as less successful there's uh lots of reasons
that they don't always get their fair share of things so from that little kid in me that workingclass kid I look at everybody saying oh well we need to increase this because this is a crisis but then we look at the DPW and I see
men and women who are working to keep the soes clean the sewers clean to to plow the snow to do all the kind of dirty work we have in our town and and just like any other uh person who works
in town they need increases uh in their in their salaries they need more Staffing they're and they need their buildings repaired but it becomes the focus often becomes and I'll say this in the schools and the schools are
incredibly important in any town in any town but it does seem to me that the the level funding across departments sort of is a way of saying there's got to be some equity for all of
the workers in town because there is honestly there is not one Department in town that isn't struggling with an having a lack of Staffing the the really the amount of Staffing that they need so it and I was an educator I was an elementary school teacher and a
mathematics coach so for me schools are incredibly important but I also feel this Bal this need to balance so for me um uh that seems to me to be important that level that across the board and
then how do we make things work so that's my personal opinion I don't know where Lynn or Andy or anybody else would be I'm gonna I don't know that I have any better answers this I'm going to go on to Kitty okay um so regarding new growth
and the whole topic of encouraging Workforce and family housing and you know finessing you know like dealing with the delicate balance between student housing and family housing um and Workforce housing I'm wondering if
you could Poss give a meaningful comment um to the question of the kitridge development non-proposal um of having 240 200 I forget how many
two 200 something um residential units in the town of a oh just over the border from lever in the town of ammer and then 48 or so in the town of Leverett um all I know about this is that the town
of lebert has come to talk to the um Town manager and his staff they cannot proceed with that project unless they link into our sewer and water and that is not a small charge and in fact we are
looking now based on the goals that we have set for the town manager that when you have a when a new entity if you will comes in and wants link up it's not just at the price of them laying the pipes
it's not just at the price of them paying for the you know per whatever cubic feet or whatever it is that they measure they have to pay something to become part of the club and you have to be careful how you word that so it's not
illegal but we maintain very very sophisticated water and sewer systems we built them and you have to pay something to join to into them because otherwise we can't maintain
them so stay tuned for that one so are you saying that um the town of amorist is um ex very very cautious about um participating in this we won't proceed
unless Leever wants to proceed if somebody in lever decides to do something different then lever may not have a choice and the reason they may not have a choice is because they have not met their low in their income their um affordable housing
Mark we've just seen a beautiful building that's about ready to be opened in pelum which brings pelum up to their 10% Le doesn't have anything like that so they they actually are subject to a 40R but would would would the income
from the new units be um counterbalance in some way the sewer it depends where they're built and it depends on whether the project even goes forward yeah which yeah okay and we're having the same conversations with
Hadley who wants to link into our sewer system and water system so same same question we own the facility it's not at a small charge and I always have heard that oh no amest has plenty of water and then Gilford moing said earlier I forget
what it was relevant to but that we don't have that much water well one of the things that we recently did was reinvest in um the building of the of the replacement plant up in pelum and
the reason for doing that was so that we maintain the sufficient water level that we have so Angelica yeah I just wanted to turn back to Pat's comment and say you know that first thank you for your solidarity with
workingclass people in this town I think now it's needed more urgently than ever with everything that we're seeing and how much people are being affected by the actions of the federal government and as you know a first generation a person that came as a refugee to this country and and first generation to do many things in my family your comment
really resonated with me so I really appreciate that and I just want to know more about uh if you could explain because I'm not as aware of what are the different crisis and so that we could understand how each area is impacted by a crisis you mentioned something about
salaries and DPW or can you tell us more about how each area is facing these different crisis yeah um go ahead no go I was gonna say do you want to start or what yeah I can start I mean I I when I said salaries that's some ways that
things are increased but really what I'm talking about is Staffing every Department in town is under staff um and and that has a lot to do with budget you know where we are financially as a town uh every department has uh
infrastructure needs you know if you um if you go to it would be worth Angelica to do take a tour of the current DPW building and you can see what the men and women there have been working in um and
so and the new water treatment plant that's something that's keeping our water healthy and the there the roof is starting to leak there so that's that has to be repaired but instead right now in that building and in some in the schools too so it that's why I'm saying
it's across the board there's an umbrella like thing that has a tube in it that's you know put up there under the leak and then it down and the workers have to come and empty the buckets go yeah may be rambling you may
be talking about the present DPW not the new water facility I'm talking about the uh where where was it that we visited I'm old I'm sorry the present DPW yeah no I'm not the current DPW building is a is a disaster uh it is leaking
everywhere we need to keep we keep putting money in it no there's the water treatment plant that we all visited um and that is leaking and there's infrastructure and equ issues there so in every Department you
know in in a school we're looking at books and supplies and power professionals and people who are working directly with children which is critically important it's also critically important that we have men and women working in other areas in town
um in the musanti health center we so it's not that the DPW is going to get this big salary and teachers or not we're trying to level what we can do as a town for each department and the budget isn't final
lots of things can happen so but yeah I don't know I'm not being very clear I don't think I the other I think that if we're talking also I mean the question was about why each of the um major sections
of the budget the town departments Regional Schools the uh elementary schools and the library go up the same amount each year and historically that goes back to town meeting days and there
was a feeling that rather than having each of those the develop their budgets independently and then present them which is still what happens and then fight it out on town meeting floor as to
who would uh get the higher budget increase the U conclusion was at that time of town meeting that it was important not to have that happen and to let um and to just say develop a
budgeted and even amount across all of the four sections the four major sections that I described and uh we did that and we did that for quite a number of years as we've changed forms of government we've
continued to do that because we still have four different uh budgets being developed and uh it's easier um and it seems more fair to just say that um
develop a budget at x% increase and uh then let each of them develop budgets and not have battles um at a later date that this one is more needy than the other because every
department has the same problems we all have the health insurance going up we all um are underst staffed um all of the uh Department all of those sections um have um are import provide important
services and it's the uh you know conclusion that I keeps coming back that rather than having a battle U of who's more important than who than another
section uh that it just be done in a fair and open basis and allow time to develop those budgets Angelica oh I couldn't agree more that I think things should not be pitted against each other and I just wanted to
clarify again what the crisis SCE excuse me I'm I'm not understanding if it's the building or the or the people the stoping are you okay Angela Angelica okay let me take a stab at it okay let me just give you an example
um when we go out to hire for DPW we are in many cases competing against the public the private sector for specialists in various areas Engineers water people even our sewer
people in addition to that frankly we're competing against other municipalities and we often lose our staff to other municipalities so we're constantly um working that's just an example another
example we are generally searching for firefighters every day we're often down by as many as four and in the police department we have some similar problems and unfortunately with the police department
we do a great job of recruiting everybody appreciates that and they steal our people as fast as they can and the state police are one of the biggest of PE groups to lure people
away and they leave because the state police can offer them more solid regular hours better pay Etc and so we're just competing against others for the same people and this is not a small problem
in the municipal government it's a problem all over the place and the schools are the same way I know earlier we had one of a one of the people on here who I remember coming to the Town Council and talking about how it took until November or October to recruit
another second grade teacher the issue wasn't that the money wasn't there the money in this case was there it's whether or not you can find a second grade teacher so you've got problems like that and then you have your repair problems I mean people
people could not believe when we came in when the pro proposal came in for the senior center for Bank Center at 2.8 million and they saw just how little that buys it was it's astounding but yet if
we don't do that then the next phase of any renovation for that building can't happen and so it's these are complicated issues that keep requiring people to understand all the moving parts of
government it's not just labor it's facilities it's the price of fuel it's the price of insurance it's all these different pieces uh Jason thank you um something that's come up a
few times tonight and I think is constantly coming up is just this kind of lack of new growth and how how do we overcome it you know there's there's a lot of conversation right now with the schools
and propose cuts to the schools and we're talking now about a budget and how you know there's this four and how everybody's in crisis so what what is the plan or what is what are you all doing as a Town Council to
try to one potentially change zoning so we can build more homes so then as the more homes we build the more affordable all the homes in the town become what are
you doing to um move students out of family housing and back onto the campuses where they reaping all the benefits of having those students come in they get all the money apparently it's like pulling teeth to get the
university in ammer college to provide money and funding or property um to the town to alleviate some of these issues why don't we have student rental permits and why do we allow student
rentals in these residential areas because drives prices through the roof before either one of us try to answer that Liz you were shaking your head and I wondered what you were thinking and
get us well I'm thinking that Jason Mr Don dney I can't call you Jason because I don't know you hi I'm Liz um all right you call me Jason as a retired teacher as someone who has two sons who are born here raised here volunteer here raising
their children here and work in the school how difficult it is to hire and maintain folks and when it comes to um the housing crisis where I as a retired
mother have to sometimes support and help my two grown sons with their electricity bill because they can't afford to live in the apartment complexes because the rents are too high well the rents are too high because Massachusetts does not have a rental cap
now there's a percentage that the the landlords can't go above each year but they can hit that cap every year right that percentage every year um and also the fact that I live across the street
from and next door to student housing student housing and student housing in my on my residential street if you look at my street you know if you want to know what's what's What's the deal with student housing just come on to Second
log town and come up to my driveway and I'll point it all out to you and it's because people are buying the properties I used to have a young man who graduated with my son in 2004 him and his his wife and his young
daughter live next door to me when they decided to move into Hatley because they want a bigger backyard for their daughter and and their now son so they moved into they moved to Hadley and the person who bought the house instead of
having a family in there now has five or six extra cars in the driveway with a bunch of students now the students on my street are no problem to me they're quiet they come in they do their work and they leave so I don't have the noise
and all of that however there's every other house on my street is for students instead of um families which were there when I first moved into the house from roling Green um in 19 I mean in 2010 so
it's because the people that are buying the properties are not buying the properties for families they're buying properties for students now some of that's been alleviated by some of the housing that's gone up at UMass but their rents over there were crazy $3,000
a month for what right so they would come and St eight students in their five-bedroom house across the street from me and make money off of that because the students don't want to live for 3,000 a month the other part is there's
no for me personally that I find the beauty in this town I come from the projects of Cambridge Mass and I found the beauty of this town when I came to UMass in 1977 well and I take ownership and pride in this town so I do what I can to make
it better but the students they come in they go to school they leave so they don't care what's going on in this town so there's so many different angles to to some of the problems that I think that Pat and Andy and Lynn and and all
the other counselors and members of some of the subcommittees I'm on the Human Rights Commission um we're facing things every day and until we get people to understand the beauty of our town and get to invest in the beauty of our town
some of these issues are going to continue to arise now on top of that we are in a situ we don't even know what's coming down I think Miss Angelica said it we have no idea what the effect of
um 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington DC is going to have on our town from one minute to the next so we all have to also be prepared for that so there's just a lot of moving pieces that all of us need to band together and navigate
thank you Liz and and Jason I want to say that your question about zoning is a really important question there have been several zoning changes we passed an accessory dwelling unit um bylaw here in ammer and made zoning changes to do that
the state now recognizing the housing crisis has expanded that and it is uh going to um a lot of the ways that we were limiting adus is going to be bypassed uh another counselor and I uh
Mandy joh hanii who's an at llarge counselor worked for a couple of years trying to make zoning changes that would make uh the building of owner occupied duplexes as easy as building a single
family home and you know we got shot down by the planning board we got you know and a lot of people in town because uh well I won't go into all those things but that one of the things that's happening is an affordable development
that Valley Community CDC is building in ball Lane um in north ammer and it's going to be duplexes and the duplexes are going to be varied in size so they'll be and they'll be for um um um
low and middle income families and they they will be it it's it's amazing to see the kind of variety that there has been in the drawings when we try to propose that we run against limits on the
planning board people who are very resistant to change and we re we have to look at our community who doesn't want change that we don't want to spoil the character of our town but Liz is really talking about the character of our town
and the one place Liz I'll say I I volunteer at the survival center uh which is an incredibly important organization to me and there are numbers numbers of student undergraduates and graduates from UMass
and students from ammer college who are volunteering there on a regular basis there are students who do see the beauty of our town even if they're only here for four years or six years the other I'm talking too much I should so Jason
one of the things to look at is start going to planning board meetings and start talking about the zoning changes you're talking about when the Adu thing went through or I'm not going to no that's not quite correct but there was
uh they decided they started talking about well maybe we could expand the dimensions of the property needed so there's resistance right there not on everybody in the planning board but that resistance is present there and in our
community so go to those meetings I want to mention two things yeah I want to hear what was just gonna say first you I thought you were just gonna respond quickly yeah no you I think you mentioned one of the biggest problems is that there's a lot of people that are in
positions to make decisions that don't want to see any change happen and those people are not in my opinion representative of the town as a whole um you don't see very many people with children on these boards words I myself am on the the Conservation Commission so
the ball Lane project came through the Conservation Commission tremendous waste of space you have yeah because they limited it you have Acres up there and they're building 32 units because that was the only way they could get it through through through what through
planning board and stuff that and the zba it was the only way they had to reduce the number of size now the cost is probably prohibited but they they had hoped to do I think up to 60 um so you
know 30 duplexes so that was almost cut in half my question the my overarching question here is as the Town Council are you in some ways limited to what you can do with zoning is it is it
the zoning board that makes our zoning laws they make the proposals they vote they no we we vote on zoning law right right you everything like that comes back to us but as I said when when
counselors go for some counselors go forward to talk about uh real potential zoning changes that would have made a lot of things more um more accessible to to um we the if the planning board koses
that then that makes other counselors we're not a unified body we're 13 individuals and some of us are holding certain things precious and other things I'm holding my stuff precious you know it's it's a fault we all have um so it
is not simple uh but we are responsible for the zoning in this town but to get real change you have to change the hearts and minds of community members and council members so we're you know we're not
that's not a great answer and I want I want to mention two things okay yeah go ahead I'm sorry Lenny uh University Drive is coming up for a rezoning it uh has already gone through planning board and uh Community Resources committee it
comes next to go right all we do is clear consistent and actionable it will come to the council I have want to just mention University Drive came up to before town meeting and it was turned down I will bet you this time it will go
through yes there's an example of a change that this count Town Council has made and it opens it up for much more development in an area that doesn't bother people as a neighborhood nearly as much as some of the other projects seem to have the second thing is the
university has just come out with their own RFP to hire a developer to help them look at the campus and see whether or not they can expand some housing on campus they also recognize with that RFP
that they have a whole group of dorms presidential complex mainly which are the high-rise ones that are basically out of date and they're going to either have to replace them or do significant remodeling which probably can't be done
so they're looking at their own housing uh UMass ammer interestingly enough houses more students p percentage-wise on its campus than just about any other large University and yet because we're
such a small town we feel the impact of it and we can't control whether or not John Q public comes in and buys the neighborhood the house next door and turns it into a rental we can't control all of that we can control it with our
rental bylaw which we also passed and thank you very much CRC Pat was part of that but we there are certain things you know you we can't control the private Market the private housing market are you want to bid up a house for a 100,000
more than it's listed for we can't control that but are you saying you can't control student rental permits to allow there's no difference between a student rental permit and a rental permit in emerest
so line between that and discrimination you have to be very very careful you can create certain kinds of things and we've looked very seriously at Penn State or State College because they've done that
um but you have to be really careful the same thing I'll be straightforward with you you might as well forget the fact that we have four unrelated individuals if that ever went to court it'd be thrown out can't there's certain things you
just can't do because it steps on people's rights Kitty okay so um I think we all okay first of all I would like people in our town including myself
um to forego using um slogan earring like an an exaggerated um you know memes like people here just don't like change I just don't I just don't think that's a
fair summary of our population and to say that people here don't want any change I I really hope that PE that all of us will watch our language carefully so that we don't slip into a trump era
kind of way of speaking very bullying very accusatory um and I hope we can do better than that kitty I want to thank you for that having recently been blasted all over a
sign as not supporting education I can't tell you how wrong those people are so yeah these summaries these summaries are just like tend to be unfair yeah it's also one of the reasons why people don't want to run for public office yeah is
not a cakewalk and it's like you know I I yeah so think we I think that the current statistic is that there's 30 or 40% of our population is does not live here um year round because they are
student undergraduate students it's at least 40% on going on 50 okay um and so that's a significant seasonal population do we agree on that we do and when we tried to
get people to recognize that our season is different than the Cape Cod season exactly Boston had deaf ears so what can we do about that because that was my question is like what are you doing enough to get us designated as a seasonal Community even
though we're not like a warm weather seasonal can we work very hard with Joe Comerford who works very hard for us and with Mindy Dom who also works very hard for us and they are again not they're very very
successful in many ways they both have achieved nice positions Joe is now Vice chair of ways and means um in the Senate um but they can just do so much what can our town do to support them in doing
more than just so much make sure they hear from you okay can the town counil spearhead a petition or a movement um in the town could can they take a leadership position on that I don't what
we try to do is get them to influence legislation which is how we try to do things with them we do meet with them once a month um and the broad topics are all over the place education is always at the top we're still waiting for uh
Joe cumerford has um indicated in various conversations uh that she will be filing some kind of Bill to look at reform for funding education because bluntly the states failed us they have absolutely failed us more and more districts all
you have to do is read The Gazette and every District around us is facing some of the very same issues our state money at this point from the state for education is a wash as much as
they're giving us they're taken away so education is now a local issue whereas it's always been a state issue for Massachusetts so can you know I mean it seems like the Town Council could help the public help the public help the
Town Council help the state senator and representative we do you do I mean you you let us know what you're thinking okay we make sure we know that you're thinking that and we make sure we share
it with our state reps and is this in the era of um uh federal government oh difficulties with funding is it I mean should we be pushing for local I
mean pushing for what local like like to be designated as a seasonal town I mean how how do these issues is it ridiculous to be thinking about the town when we should be maybe thinking about the federal government or and
and I I don't want to get us started on okay our own opinions of what could happen uh with the situation in Washington but it's not going to be pretty can iance what's a seasonal town I don't
understand how and how would that differ from what we are now that that's just yeah well it's interesting so for example um Cape Cod is seasonal okay but there season's basically three maybe four months a year we're seasonal
but we're nine months a year it's when your town explodes through a population influx and the question is how does that change what services you have to provide how does that change your housing
situation how does it change any number of issues with regard to the place you live so for example we're seasonal in the winter Cape Cod is seasonal people come in they stay for two weeks they leave
that's their definition of seasonal our definition of seasonal is they come in for nine months and they stay they go to our schools they use our roads they use our Parks they use our Trails they take our EMS people I mean
it's all there now by the way they pay for EMS and they pay for fire even on campus they pay for those so it's not like they they pay for their own water they pay for sewer so they don't get a free ride from the town
meaning the higher at institution could you explain what the seasonal designation does for a town well so for example in there's a variety of things that the cape can do from a standpoint of its bylaws because it gets away with
that seasonal definition our issues are not they're different and we don't have the same kind of flexibility with our bylaws the ad youth issue is one of them thank you yeah we're kind of at our the end of
our meeting but we want to make sure if you have other issues that you ask we've covered the Gambit of DPW fire the roundabouts on Heatherstone and uh the budgets when is College Street going to
get fixed oh jeeez good question um I mentioned earlier that I've asked for the roads by the way some of College Street let's see no the the part of College Street
between um beler town and the Town Center the town owns that road the part of Route 9 which is College Street between the center of town and Hadley is
owned by the state somewhere in the wisdom of some past phase of our government we decided to take over root n which we never should have done as a result We Own It We that
section of rout n between center of town and belter town I can't I don't have any better answer for you we and we all saw what happened when we went through the repair this last year um did you have any other comment
Lee we can't hear you yes I just want to say thank you thank you thank you for having this I can't imagine having any two better Town counselors than the two of you I'm
very grateful for all you do and for having this meeting so thank you again that's it thank you Jason final comment yeah thank you I'd like to you know Echo Lee's comments to do definitely
appreciate you having these meetings and uh allowing everybody here to speak um I do want to come back to the zoning thing and just give my opinion and just say I really think that we need to um really look at some of the what I
consider to be arbitrary zoning things um you mentioned University Drive I know there's some commercial buildings there that have just those vast expanses of green like grass that's just lawn it's useless it's pointless um there there's
a lot of available space in town to be built on now you know there's a lot of it's private property there's potential private property commercial property you know it's not as if the town owns all of it um I don't think we have a housing
problem I think we have a zoning problem and we have uh just this lack of incentives for businesses as well and we talk a lot about Zoning for housing but just bringing businesses what are we doing to incentivize business and I say
that not in an accusatory way but more of a rhetorical way what are we doing as a town to incentivize businesses to move in so that we can collect extra taxes from them and take some of the burden off of homeowners and I just hope that that is those concerns are reflected uh
in the future conversations about zoning in the town could you let the little person there come in and wave at us because she's definitely interested hello my friend no she's having her bedtime
snack K did you have some final words um yes besides thank you and um I I'm just wondering if um there's been more conversation about the use of the Wildwood school and I hope that the town does not sell
off a really wonderful piece of real estate like the Wildwood school um and I yeah I don't know if you have a comment about that the only thing we can tell you is right now we don't own it we have to wait for the schools
decide to give it to us okay um and the other thing is I I I hope that the charter review process will be a meaningful one um and that it won't be installed in like figuring out process until the time
limit is up that's sort of up to the Charter committee it' be nice if they got really going um that's it's a good committee but and they we they can extend their
timeline okay okay and I hope they can extend their discussion to include things that are not necessarily in their mission statement or whatever it's called in their purview because there are important issues to be discussed
yeah yes and I think that the you're right on Kitty there may be things that they can't change without bringing it forward to vote you know a special act and but discussing it is a critical aspect of it I've talked a lot to Dan
Muscat about that and I think it's pretty important yeah so thank you very much okay this was I got some of the best neighbors nice to see you nice to see all
you has hand yes we do a different McLean oh sorry hi I'm Meg I was trying to listen to a lot of it too um and I appreciate I was doing kid and dinner things as I was um listening in um I just wanted to say
thank you thank you so much I really appreciate it and I just wanted to put one last idea out there of of just considering in in the budgeting process the the sort of this bridge year between U when we have the three elementary schools and the and then transitioning to the two and and how we might be
creative about trying to sort of lessen like sort of make that transition happen in a smooth we've asked the superintendent and the and the school committee to give us a plan for that so that we can know what it would cost to get to that bridge thank you I really
appreciate it waiting for the plan awesome than thank you so much absolutely good night all good night take care stay safe out Andy thank you I thought you were gonna talk more about the budget but it's never had
time see you later bye Liz