good evening it's March 10 2025 this is a regular meeting of the Town Council the open meeting law which is about to expire um it allows us to hold these meetings um in without a quorum
physically present in the room but I'd like to make note that right now we have 12 of our 13 counselors in this room welcome all nice to see you um um this meeting is accessible in real time by Zoom by phone and as a live
broadcast on ammer media sorry um given that we have Quorum of the councel in the room I'm calling the meeting or to order at 6:32 I'll call upon each counselor by the name they have indicated they would
like to be addressed please unmute your mic make sure that we can hear you and you can hear us and then mute your mic again P deangelus present honor Devin Gothard
present counselor e greas is present councelor hanii present Bob hegner present councelor Lord present Pam Rooney here councelor Ryan
present Kathy Shane here Andy Steinberg pres Jennifer to here councelor Walker not present yet okay there's no chat room for this
meeting if there's technical issues please let Athena and me know um the order order of the agenda is not altered during this evening there will be one general public comment period um the announcements are on the
um agenda and I want to point out that the CRC will meet this Thursday 13th at 4 o'clock finance will meet next Tuesday March 18th at 2 and go unfortunately is not able to meet
this Tuesday because of a glitch in the website and we're exploring whether or not we'll be able to meet on Tuesday the 18th and T TSO is meeting on Thursday the 20th at 10 uh the C
the cdbg uh is holding an advisory committee public hearing on March 13th from 7 to 9: we have no hearing tonight we will have one in two weeks um and we're here
to have general public comment anyone wishing to speak who is in the town room if you have not signed up already please do so with atheno Keef over here if you're on zoom and you wish to make public comment at this time please raise
your hand Athena how many people have signed up two thank you and there is one person on Zoom uh we will begin with the F let me just State the following public comments on matters
within the jurisdiction of the Town Council residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes the council will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during general public comment public comments are not reflective of the opinions of
the Town Council the First Amendment broadly protects individual rights to address the government to speak and to express themselves including their right to say hateful and offensive things I am generally unable to shut those commenters down under the First Amendment to the US Constitution unless
their level of speech Falls within an exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words true threats to a particular individual harassment of a particular individual or incitement of imminent Lawless
activity a question exists as to whether a particular speaker is engaged in unprotected speech I must defer to the principles of the freedom of speech we're recognize speakers in the order in which they have signed up we'll start with the town room Myra Ross as you come
up we want to make sure the light is on and Athena will do that hold on hold on there we go and there's a mic right there's the mic and I'm supposed to push the button don't don't push the
button sure okay oh okay sorry about that Myra please uh state your name and where you generally where you live I am Myra Ross I live in District 4 um and I am here um I am currently the
chair of the disability access advisory committee which will hold its final meeting tomorrow um tonight the council is being asked to appoint the new commission for people with disabilities
which will begin on April 88th and I'm here to thank uh the council for voting to create this commission last spring to thank Athena for working with Pamela
young and me and uh our vice chair at the time Martha Smith who has since moved out of amest unfortunately um in writing the charge for the new commission and in and thanking the council for deciding to
appoint the commission um in some ways there will not be a very large change in what the commission does over what the com uh what the daac does but it is um an elevation of
status for the commission um for the for the whole for the group of people in town who have disabilities um it makes a higher visibility we report directly to the town manager and we are enabled to
raise funds from private sources and from public sources so if you are a town resident and you have always wanted to fund a particular project that would support making life easier for people
with disabilities you can now do it so I expect a flood of contribution um and um so I mean but all kidding aside we did it um we requested this of the
council about a year ago um really in memory of and to honor Joseph tringali who was a disability activist who lived in amers for many years um he was director of stavos I believe for a while
and he really um he was un uh he he never stopped talking about the needs of people with disabilities and um he always talked about this that we needed to be a
commission um and so we requested this really his honor but many communities in Massachusetts have had commissions for years so this is not novel this is not new and I just wanted to thank everybody who was involved in helping us create it
um particularly Paul who's been really patient with our indecisiveness about certain things um but we really wrote the charge with um editing from Athena and from Paul and I just think it's sort
of the way that govern is supposed to work so I just said I just want to say thank you and I also want to say in response to something Lynn said earlier the open meeting um the the allowance of remote meetings is
going to expire on the 31st of March unless the legislature extends it and it is one of the greatest equalizers of access to people with disabilities ities not to mention people from the western part of the state who get to participate
in state meetings much more than they ever did but this the the first thing um the elevation of the of people need the needs of people with disabilities has to start there with full participation and
I hope I I believe that the Town Council has taken a position in favor of the extension of the open meeting law and the ability for towns to or the need for towns to have remote participation because that is a true equalizer in
Access thank you for your comment I'm going to stay with the room for this time being and to go to the next person and then I'm going to go to uh zooms and several more people have raised their hands Tom warer thank you um if you just state your name and
where you live thank you I am Tom warger I live in District Two uh Echo Hill nor and I am not here today to talk about uh manyi roundabouts much as I like them but I am here my capacity as chair
of the uh public art commission uh as noted in the materials that you received for this meeting this is the first run through first implementation of the percent for art uh
bylaw uh it's something that the town worked on for many years has been anticipated for a long time and uh here we are uh the uh I am joined by six members on the uh commission we are charged
under the bylaw uh with working with the town manager with uh town uh committees project committees departments and the public as we move through this
process uh we have been doing some research at the request of the Town manager and um we stand ready and really very excited uh to work on this project so I'm very grateful for it that to see
it come along and U we'll be we'll be in touch thank you Tom thanks for joining us and thanks for those of you on Zoom we are going to go to the people on Zoom at this point five people have their hands raised we are going to continue to
stick to the three minute timeline and we'll begin with Jenifer and I'm going to just apologize in advance if I mispronounce your name just flly correct me okay uh Jennifer curiel please enter the room state your name and where you
live hi can you hear me yes we can my name my name is Jennifer cirali I live on woodlock Road in ammer um I am a parent of a child in Fort River in the common program um my child also accesses special education there I am here
tonight to ask the Town Council to allocate more funds to both the elementary and Regional Schools and to revisit the way that you allocate funds given the nature of what is happening in our country and in our schools the old way business as usual just no longer applies there is an assault on education
in this country and at the same time our public schools here in ammer are in crisis please listen to the educational professionals when they tell you that the proposed budget cuts would harm our students we need to adequately fund our schools and allow ammer to be an example
of a town that still values education additionally I feel that I must speak out about some of the questionable statements and beliefs that I've heard expressed recently by some Town Council Members about special education and its costs to our schools let me be really clear about this special education is a
federally protected right at least it it it has been that could be changing as we speak but at the moment it's a federally protected right so that students with disabilities can access the curriculum under the law all students regardless of race religion ability socioeconomic status are entitled to a free and
appropriate public education and whatever support they need to be able to access that education however I've heard Town Council Members and other officials talk about the quote ballooning costs of special education and whether or not our special education services are overshadowing general education and if
somehow we can negotiate down IEPs to save costs not only is this scapegoating and othering and already marginalized group of students the these statements are just false the cost of everything is up not just special education and IEPs are not negotiated based on cost they
are created based on need just like your doctor is supposed to formulate your treatment plan based on medical need not cost so please please stop expecting the schools to solve this budget crisis on the backs of kids with disabilities that is shameful they are not the reason the schools are in trouble the problem is
that the cost of everything is much higher and the small budget increases are not keeping up with the costs and the needs of students and the other major problem is the charter school for formula we have Chinese immersion bleeding money from our district at an alarming rate so I ask that people
please stop scapegoating a bunch of little kids with disabilities special education is not the problem special education is the answer when students get what they need to successful in the classroom everybody benefits general education students benefit teachers
staff the whole community so I ask that you please revise how you allocate funds to better support our schools and help amorist get back to having functional and thriving schools for all thank you for your time and thank you for your service to our community thank you for joining us
Jennifer Angelica Bernell please enter Bernell please enter the room state your name and where you live uh yes good evening can you hear me okay yes we can thank you okay great my name is Angelica Bernal um I live on
Hickory Road and um Hickory Lane in Echo Hill and I'm a parent of two school age children and I'm here to read a statement on behalf of the special education parent advisory Council steering committee in the past month we've watched as a new Trump Administration has slashed critical social programs impacting millions of
Americans many of them the most vulnerable citizens of these millions one target has been individuals with disabilities as parents and caregivers of children with disabilities we watch in alarm but not just at this Federal landscape what raises our alarm is equally the ways in which this slashing
of budgets at the federal level is also happening here at our local schools and that these decisions are made by a Town Council that professes to represent Progressive values we are equally alarmed that our special education programs are the targets when the majority of cuts come at the expensive our special education programs we have
to ask about the message you are sending us is a quality education for children with dis abilities less valuable or urgent for the past 3 years we at CPAC have come to countless Town Council meetings begging our elected officials to refrain from making Sharp Cuts to our special education programs we have
pointed to arguments time and again about the real impact such Cuts have on our kids how reductions to special education teachers and parents mean our kids are not getting what they need to succeed let alone what is their legally mandated right under existing law we say all this with passion but we must now conclude you're not listening instead
you tell us that budget cuts are necessary is because we must learn to live within our means and because special education programs cost too much just recently at a finance committee we heard one of you state that we have to make these cuts to so to so we can take special education programs for being the quote best to just basic this kind of
comment which I've heard repeated in some form in the past tells us that one you're failing to understand what it takes to run these programs things that our teachers are better informed to tell you they're the experts please listen to them and two that the catastrophic consequences of making these Cuts they are going to be catastrophic because in
trying to balance budgets you are degrading critical student services Services which I must remind you are legally mandated if we say please consider making these Cuts in other areas of our town service like capital projects or at least treat us with the same parity and Equity as these projects I am told we are all told time and again
do you like your roads and you're drinking water education for our children is just as essential as the water we drink and the food we eat and just as food prices have gone up so has the cost of Education we are not asking for luxuries but necessities and urgencies we are asking for our schools to not be willfully plunged into crisis
we are simply asking that our children have their legally mandated and critical essential Services we are asking them to simply be given the same opportunity that generations of other amers residents have had in the past we think that that's not too much to ask and in a town like ours the money is there in a town of halves we families with
school-aged children are the half knots to begrudge our children a quality education is shameful and we can only contr conclude as either the result of either Pol lack of political will different priorities that you hold or both and we find this deeply
troubling thank you for joining us I want to pause for a moment Alicia Walker has joined us can you hear us Alicia yes I can thank you Lyn thank you um Andre gadera please enter the room state your name and where you
live hi I'm Ellen jedry Cadera can you hear me yes we can yes I'm just using my husband's computer thank thank you um I uh live in District 5 and I have two young students in the ammer
elementary school system I do want to note that I'm really happy to hear about the disability Commission in ammer and I'm looking forward to hearing more about their work uh in the future uh I would like to make comment regarding the budget and first I would
like to ask the council to please please allocate more funds to our schools I would also like to make a request of those of you who were not able to attend the budget hearings for the Regional School District as well as the ammer school district at each of those
meetings there were at least 50 um folks in attendance parents staff um and at least 50 Zoom attendees or more there were um a number of Zoom comments made emailed comments voicemails literally
hundreds of people calling in I listen to the fames teach teachers and staff of our community and listen to them tell you how devastating these Cuts will be uh it was pretty incredible given that most families it's really hard to find
time in the middle of the evening to come and either be in person or even be on Zoom I have a child knocking at my door right now uh and the next thing I want to say is that as previous callers have mentioned over the last 6 months
members of Town Council have made statements suggesting that our schools cut costs by reducing special education services while still somehow meeting the needs of our children there's also been suggestion that our schools are somehow giving preferential treatment to special education students and I want to remind
you of two things many of the services that our special education students receive are legally mandated because they are needed and our students are entitled to these Services even when they're expensive if you listen to parents and educators you will hear them saying that
it is already difficult to meet the growing needs of our children with our current Staffing we need more resources in special education not less and in the words of one special education professional in our school when you fund special education appropriately
everything else falls into place and the reason that is is because special education isn't off on its own in one building far away there are many special education students and generally education students together all day long
and there are many that are mainstreamed and for the kids that are in the subate programs they are with the general education students as well they benefit each other they have an impact on each other you can't just pit one against the other so please um we need more
resources for Education as a whole in this town and many of us are working very hard to advocate for more funding at a state level um when when it is suggested that we can meet the needs of our students with less money somehow
those efforts are undermined so I really hope that you will think more about providing more funds allocating more funds to our schools and our students I appreciate you listening and thank you for all that you do thank you for joining us Rachel Hall
please enter the room state your name and where you live hi there thanks so much for hearing me my name is Rachel Hall I live in Echo Hill I have two kids um one attending Fort River well two attending Fort River
and one approaching the Middle School um I am calling in the middle of dinner and a long day of work to ask that you allocate more funds to our Regional Schools uh I will keep it short everyone who has already spoken has been so
eloquent um I don't have a kid with an ie p and I can tell you I see that special ed helps all kids my kids benefited from a reading specialist and my kid also lost 40% of their class in third grade when there was not enough support in the classroom for kids that
needed it I want to tell my loved ones who are very nervous about the world and are fleeing different states with not as great um supports and I want to say that we have robust school systems that will support support them I want to tell them like I was told move to ammer the
schools are amazing I'm begging you to please think about a different way of a funding model um and address all the concerns that were spoken here tonight thanks so much for your time and energy thanks for joining us Rachel Jason Dorney please enter the
room state your name and where you live hello I'm Jason Dorney I live in hory Lane in ammer uh the Echo Hill uh neighborhood I wanted to just Echo a lot of the comments that have come before me uh I believe that our schools are
incredibly important for not only the education of our children but for our town in general good schools help to create good towns and I think that uh providing additional funding for the schools is important for all the reasons
that have been stated previously and it brings families to the town um as every everybody has said in this time there's all sorts of Shifting Norms shifting values but one of the things that I believe
Massachusetts has held uh close to throughout the Commonwealth history is education and it's incredibly important that we provide education for our children to know that they are going to uh grow up and have a good foundation
for whatever it is that they do in the future whether they be uh residents in Massachusetts for the rest of their lives residents of amers for the rest of their lives or they go off somewhere in the world the Early Education that they receive is a foundation for the rest of their
lives I just want to make sure that everybody uh understands how valuable this community thinks our schools are and how much we value that education and we are begging everyone to please uh
please allocate more funding to the schools and also please prepare some sort of plan so that we're not constantly having a conversation like this year after year what is it that's being done to protect
our schools not just now but five years from now 10 years from now I would love uh to hear a plan from everyone or from the council at large uh as to to how that's going to be done and you I want to also thank all of you for
participating for being on the council um I know that at times doing this is can be a thankless job and you probably get uh more abuse than you should um and I just want to let you know that while this is a very people are very
passionate about this subject that uh we are thankful that you all are taking the time out of your schedules to um to participate and to be on the council thank you thank you for joining us Jason fine bedrick please enter the room
state your name and where you live uh good evening everyone my name is Fen bedrick and everyone here me yes I am a resident on Olympia Drive just moved to Amherst but I need to I'm sorry F you need to move a little closer to
your mic okay thank you um I just moved to after graduating about 20 years ago from the University of UMass and um I expect you all to see more of me so thank you all for being part of of democratic
government um that's because I think I could be likely one of the first to say that I think the Town Council may need to declare a state of emergency uh as we're in a constitutional crisis um at Great risk to my life I put Faith in
Allah and human rights and Indigenous Nations both both organizations and people I have never met to say this we are in a money war of austerity and our dollars are now to Doge um they own our
national treasury so if you expect the government to give us any as an electr Progressive town with an agricultural history and academics you're naive they will starve us of what makes us special to get us complicit so because this is
more than the US say It's Brazil it's brazila bolsonaro it's other nations in Conflict like Haiti it could be here and we need to lead as a town like our universities and I think the answer is to give each other credit instead of
depending upon Capital One instead of depending upon Bank of America not to say that a bank is a problem since I love Credit Unions um I think we could make our own town currency and I couldn't do this alone I just move back here you all know what makes amas tick
um so the simplest thing I thought would be something cute like uh ice cream like an ice cream back currency but really my thought would be that any Resident who would um participate in this currency would want some sort of universal basic income because that would be a standard where we don't have to Min money at
whatever subsidy rates unless it's because this emergency would able be able to keep everyone with an equal flow and I only know of one currency that does this digitally and it's called called duner um Duit R it's made in France so I believe that may be
something of positive value and um we could trade dollars to duner one to one and um only trade back two of our dollars to one American dollar and put um and try to take our money seriously because right now we may be denied any
more access to American currency despite being as American as apple pie so um thank you all for meeting me in this hour of my need and I thank you all for being present every day for amoris thank you thank you for joining us
Rebecca uh I don't see a last name so please enter the room and state your full name hi there I'm Becca Watkins in Echo Hill um I'm here to Echo what every other parent is asking and that's to please allocate more funding for our
Public Schools amist should and can be a town that people want to move to on a personal level I can tell you that I would not recommend families to move to this town solely based on the status of our public schools and how they are
prioritized uh we moved here three years ago and I was eager to get other families to move here and once I experience um the lack of prioritization and funding for our schools I knew I could
not have other families move here and I think that's something that we should all strive for we want to be a town that people want to move to and one of the best ways we can do that is by prioritizing our schools thank you thank
you for journe us Rebecca uh Shannon and wait please enter the room and state your name thank you hello can you hear me yes yeah this is actually uh way J kler and Shannon
kler we live on H Kingman Road I am a product of the ammer school system um my uncles were my father was my grandparents were involved there's a there's quite a history with ammer schools I definitely I mean I I want you
guys to relook at the budget and consider this as a pivotal moment to reverse course the quality of our town is dependent on the quality of our education and that's why we I brought my wife here that's why we had five kids
now three kids in the system and you know I I could tell you like the fond memories of having the opportunity to go to Germany having German class um orra Coral the Arts we have to make ourselves different and I think we need
to take this moment and look the other way invest in our future invest in our children and reconsider the budget it's like what everyone else has said here um we we have talked about money going to
you know the new Bank Center money going here and there there's free cash we need to take education seriously we wouldn't have the support of the town without the residents staying here without the children having fond memories and a good
education here and what Amis was originally known for let's not go the other direction especially with the with the political political atmosphere and the Nationwide issue of Education in general we can bring we can Foster and
nurture Talent here and you know create more fond memories just like I had of the ammer school system let's change course I I urge everyone to please change course course thank you thank you for joining us uh Lincoln Smith please
enter the room state your name and where you live hi my name is Lincoln Smith I actually a resident of poolio Massachusetts but I am a teacher in the instrumental program for elementary
schools um I can come at this from a kind of unique angle um I am licensed to teach and have taught both special ed and music for the past decade um I want to clear up a few misunderstandings I think people might
have about special education as has been mentioned before that these services are mandated and protected by the federal government and so when you make changes and cuts to special education or special education
models you are essentially stabbing yourself in the neck because what will happen is that if parents do not feel that their children's uh services are being
adequately provided I believe ammer residents are known for being litigious and will sue the school district also removing special programs like having someone who is a reading
specialist like cutting programs like the autism program or the ilc means that more kids who are not receiving that specialized instruction will have to leave the district for outside District placements
and those are extremely expensive in the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and so really a cut to schul education is actually doing the opposite you're actually spending more money to do the same kind of work that you would have had to do before
now growing up I was a kid who did not have the same kind of brain as everybody else I hope some folks who are listening can have a little chuckle at that I was okay in school I did okay in my classes
and I had my heart set on becoming an engineer I thought I was good at math I loved to build I loved seeing how things work I loved puzzles picking things apart and so when it came in high school that I had the opportunity to now
finally take the classes that I knew would put me on a path to being engineer I was told by my math department that I didn't have what it took and that moment was a really important moment for me in my life
because all the while I had been doing you know these engineering projects and building and coding I'd always done art and I'd always had music in my life and so this was an important moment for me as a kid to realize that I have
another option there is another option for a different path and when you cut art you're cutting the ability for someone to express a part of them that isn't necessarily
measured by a math test it isn't necessarily measured in ela it will not show up on mcast it will not show up in your reporting data but those qualities are so important for our
kids and for our futures anybody who has ever had an art teacher a stem teacher somebody who took an interest in them when they were growing up knows how impactful that
experience was how much that that made them love school that much more want to be in school want to come to school even though they weren't the kid who was going to be an engineer who wasn't going to be a biochem major who wasn't going to be an attorney but that kid knew that
school had a place for them and saw the good that was a part of them and you know this is particularly sad for me because Jennifer cuel who was just on is here begging you guys for money for her kid who I
teach who is my student he is an outstanding saxophone player but that will never show up on his IEP thank you thank you for your comment I want to remind people please try to keep it to three minutes uh Christine
Wares please enter the room state your name and where you live hi good evening can you hear me yes we can hi Christen Wares I live on Bay Road in ammer um I'm here tonight to ask the Town Council to allocate more money to
our schools both Regional and District I'm a taxpayer in ammer and I also work in the ammer public schools I I have a parent and I have three boys in our school district and I am proud of the education that my boys receive because of all of their amaz amazing
Educators however year after year I've been disheartened that the town doesn't consistently doesn't fully invest in the funding of our schools tonight I'm not here as a parent I'm here to ADV at on behalf of my students I'm an occupational therapist and I work with some of our most
vulnerable students and I'm here tonight to Advocate on behalf of them and their families I have worked in public schools for over 22 years in my many years in public schools I can tell you personally that the complex makeup of our student body has changed
significantly you don't have to just believe me you can Google any any research and there are lots and lots of peer-reviewed studies that outline these changes as some small examples in the year 2000 one in 150 children were
diagnosed with autism today that number is 1 and 36 moreover our students are still recovering from the effects and the impacts of the covid-19 pandemic Studies have demonstrated that these children have social communication deficits that impact their social interactions on a
daily basis Educators on the ground are held to ethical standards of practice by our licensing board words and we are here to tell you that the cuts as presented are putting our students bodies Our student body at risk and are forcing us to educate students in ways that we believe
are unethical because we cannot give our children what we know what they need to be successful while the cost of educating students is growing the poor outcomes predicted for these children's lives without proper education in Reading social emotional skills other academics
and executive functioning is grim more over the cost to our community to support these individuals as they head into adulthood is far greater than the amount we are asking for now we can avoid these dire outcomes of insecure housing and poor employment by
educating them now I ask you to consider our voices we are not over servicing our children we are not offering levels of support that aren't absolutely necessary we are consistently asked to do more with less My Hope Is that you will listen to our advocacy see and trust
that we are the experts and that we know what our students need I hope that we can proactively consider what our town needs to do to consistently fund our schools so that we aren't always coming to the table and reacting to proposed school um cuts to our schools budgets
thank you tonight for your education and for the time you spend supporting our town thank you there's two more people we're going to take for public comment Meg Graham mlan please enter the room state your name and where you live hi my name is Mike Grand McLean um I'm
also in the echohill neighborhood and I'm the mom of two kids uh in the Fort River School um and I'm also here to Echo a lot of of what has already been said um and it's lovely to see and hear so many people here to support our
schools um I would love for you to reconsider the um the funding mechan or the funding structure that you have in place which is equal distribution to all of the Departments of the town um I do believe that there's a more Equitable way to fund each of those departments
and I think hearing from all these people there may be a way to to more equitably distribute those funds and so that's all I'm calling for thank you all for your service and I appreciate you being here tonight thank you for joining us um Ariel Templeton please enter the
room state your name and where you live hi uh can you hear me we can great um so um my name is Ariel Templeton I live on Southeast Street I am the parent of a Fort River fifth grader and a rising ninth grader um I'm also the band
teacher at Fort River Wildwood and Crocker farm and um I'm on this Zoom meeting to ask that you please fund our elementary and Regional Schools um just going to Echo what everyone else has been saying but it's important uh
schools across our state are up against a financial crisis this year I know it's not unique to ammer but what is unique to ammer is that our town has money to help the schools um with these proposed Cuts our schools have will fall into
crisis mode um I work in the buildings I've been in the district for six years now and year after year of more cuts and shipping away I'm seeing the deterioration firsthand um we've slowly been working our way to this point for
many for many years of these Cuts but these Cuts will be the final stop for our district we're going to end up losing an incredible reading teacher at the elementary schools um we might lose um some fantastic special ed teachers and classroom teachers um and art music
PE Library technology teachers will all be cut to part-time uh my program the elementary band and Orchestra uh program will also be reduced uh this consistent instability in our district that we see year after year will lead ammer teachers
to seek out more stable employment opportunities um parents will seek out more stable districts and schools for their children we're already seeing that uh we have so many kids leaving uh to school choice options uh the town will lose the schools will lose but most of
all our students will lose and that's incredibly unfair these Cuts will hurt our highest need students the most creating a district with deep deep divides between the privileged and those who need our support the most and it's really shameful and it creates a huge Equity issue um and I've said this at
previous meetings and I'm sure I'll say it at more meetings um we need to support those who need our support the most and these Cuts Target them um with Wildwood and Fort River merging next year investing in our schools now really makes sense we need the town's support
to make it through this challenging year and set a stronger foundation for the future um I feel like it's not fair to ammer taxpayers to charge our incredibly High property taxes and then let the schools fall into wreck and ruin um please please protect our students and
fund our schools and we our family really appreciates all that you do um thank you so much for your time and your service to our town thank you unless I hear objection from the council I am going to go ahead and take the next two yes we have to um Thon Fong please
enter the room state your name and where you live hi can you hear me I can thank you my name is tton Dorney I live in District 2 and I am a parent of two Fort River kids first I'd like to thank the council members who were able to come to
this year's Tibetan Uprising day I see a couple of you still wearing your cutas today at Town Hall Mindy Dom spoke at our Uprising day ceremony calling on us to lead with compassion in our fight against authoritarianism I think this is you
know really holds true today especially with the chaos and suffering caused by the the current Administration and the potential destruction of the Department of Education last week at our district 2 meeting council member Andy Steinberg stated that equal budgets across ammer
departments was to prevent them from pitting themselves against each other unfortunately this is not working when schools are suffering and experiencing cut after cut while other departments have more than they need we have to ask ourselves if the way budgets are
constructed is Equitable children are are one of our most vulnerable populations and as council members who are supposed to be working in service of our community it is your duty your obligation to protect our children I know many of you care about education
and our children and I urge you to show your attentiveness and Care through your action compassionate action that Mindy spoke about today and that is by modifying the budget in support of our schools thank you very much thank you for joining us Leona please enter the
room State your name and where you live mute hi can you hear us yes wonderful here's Leona hi my name is Leona col I'm 9 years old I love I live
in District 2 and go to rwood elementary school please think about giving more money to our school I am lucky to have great teachers and special education
teachers who help me read thank you thank you for joining us that'll we conclude public comment thank you so much absolutely yes it's really against our rules what I
want to say to all of you is we do have we welcome your public cont comment you can reach us through town council at ammer ma.gov you can also do general public comment in fact if you write us at Town Council at at amist ma.gov we
actually uh then send you to where you can make your general public comment so I we need to move on with our meeting uh our consent agenda um
actually yeah consent agenda is next uh the following items were chosen because they were considered to be routine and it was reasonable to expect they would pass with no controversy I'm going to make a motion if you want to remove an item please say so after we have the
motion otherwise I will seek a second to move the following items and the printed motions there under and approve those items as a single unit 8B referral of community preser preservation act funding recommendations please please note we'll be still having a
presentation about these later okay 9A approval of town manager appointments to commission for persons with disabilities again we'll have an opportunity if you want to later um 118 to see approval of
minutes June 24 2024 regular meeting June July 17 2024 regular meeting January 27 2025 regular meeting is there anybody that is requesting
removal no I seek a second thank you we move immediately to a we will move immediately to a vote Anna Devin gothier I councelor ET I Lyn gree's an i councelor haniki i Bob
hegner councelor Lord I P Roney yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg hi Jennifer to yes councelor Walker yes Patti Angeles hi thank you
[Music] um okay um just go back here um there are no uh resolutions tonight however next time we meet there'll I believe will be three however I do want to recognize the counselors
and the many people the public who gathered with our Tibetan community on the steps of town hall this morning recognizing March 10th 2025 as Tibetan National Uprising day and March 12th 2025 as Tibetan women's uising day
there's no presentations and discussions we're going to move on to the first action item which is the percent for our bylaw I'm going to turn to the town manager in a moment but I want to note that there was no motion on this and that this item does not require action
by the council unless we wish to change the amount designated buy this percent for art bylaw as it applies to the new Elementary School based upon the memo that is in your packet that amount is presently approximated at
$250,000 uh Paul did you have anything further you'd like to say on this sure just um the memo tries to summarize um what the percent for art uh bylaw says as uh Mr warer said this is the first time this is being utilized and so we're
working at working through all the kings out um the bylaw provides for half a percent of the project cost that the town's funding put puts in and that number is just below uh $50 million for the element for River Elementary School
so that number is about $250,000 and that is what will be incorporated into the budget and we'll begin the process um based on any kind of council discussion tonight okay floor is open for Council disc
discussion um just let me Kathy Shane you've raised your hand yes thank you um I I did I wrote a memo to the council but I failed to get it soon enough to get it on an agenda so
I would like to make a motion to reduce the amount from 250 to 100,000 this um my memo will provide some background but basically this amount of money from earlier discussions would provide sufficient funds to
commission probably multiple pieces of art or one significant artwork for sculpture and is a substantial amount of money as chair of the elementary school building committee we went out of our
way to reduce as much as we could the cost of the project because all of this is going to be funded as part of a taxpayer tax increase the debt the percent for art is part of that package so you should consider this as a part of
the increase in taxes um we a point of is there a second yes we need a second to the motion Kathy would you please read the full motion okay uh I have it from your memo can I read that okay you she has the memo she could
send it to everyone I'll try to we can now post the memo now that you've introduced it okay so my motion is to set a limit of $100,000 for the percent for art budget for the Fort River Elementary School this budget would need to cover commissioning artworks
installation insurance if needed and other Town taxpayer costs related to soliciting proposals public engagement and Contracting for the art projects I second that thank you Alicia are there is there
other discussion okay can I speak more toward it or please go ahead Kathy uh you know when when we I was on the group the ad hoc group that actually wrote the bylaw and ultimately the council passed we
allowed for the council to reduce the amount we at the point we were writing it we did not think in terms of a $50 million base for it and so the 0.5% could produce quite modest amounts if we were talking about a small project in
this case a quarter of a million dollars is is a significant amount and likely more than we need to commission high quality artwork the other thing about the school itself is um there the the way the Landscaping is there's going to
be some opportunity for external but there's not an external Plaza when you enter you know so something large can't be there so even in the building committee we talked about a potential beautiful sundal that would go with the theme of solar energy but not
significant because we have playgrounds and other things so this is not prejudging what could be there but there are spaces we identified multiple external walls and internal walls that would allow high visibility but again I
think the artwork at $100,000 could be commissioned and some some of the evidence we have from other schools it could be gorgeous it could be mosaics it doesn't have to be just murals so that is why I am moving to
decrease the budget to $100,000 and it basically saves taxpayers $150,000 councelor hanii if I have to vote on it tonight I'm voting no on this motion um art can be expensive even if it's not big
especially the commissioning the installation and the Insurance given insurance rates now we do not know what even a small installation might in the end cost to constrain without
knowing any real idea of what art might be able to go there and how much even a basic piece of art would cost at this point in time um I'm not willing to do that to just say 200 50 is too much
we're only going to do 100 um art can take a lot of forms too you don't need a plaza with a big sculpture art can be the bike racks that the kids ride their bikes to that are in sculptural form art can be the murals in
a building art can be Mosaic tiles and mosaics on the ground for a hopscotch portion of something on a playground but I also believe that the bylaw itself does not
limit the art to being on the site at completely and Fort River basically is adjacent to one of our public Commons our East amorist common that we could think about doing art on
that common that everyone coming to the school or driving to other school from South amest would see it doesn't have to be located and limited on that site and so if I have to vote tonight my vote is no because I think it is we don't have
enough information and I think we should leave it to our art commission to be more creative and be able to be creative with what art can be added to this
town councelor Ryan I can't I can't support this um I think we need to honor both the spirit and the letter of the bylaw I think it would be unfortunate for the very first time that we uh would make use of this bylaw that we're already reducing the amount and
quite frankly a half a percent on 50 million over 30 years of the savings quote unquote is really not significant um and I think I would rather um as councelor haniki has suggested um give
the committee the full amount to work with um this is going to be a beautiful building um and I think the art aspect of it is important and I think we should stand firm and support spirit and letter of
it Anna devil and gothier so before reducing I would want input from both the elementary school building committee and the public art Commission on the possible impact of this and you know we may have in our heads the idea of what costs what and
even if we've done our research there I think that it would be uh disrespectful to not seek input from those committees regarding the impact of reducing those funds obviously I don't think any committee is going to say yeah no
problem easy less money let's do it but what would the impact be of reducing that and then I would also love to and I admittedly would like to pour through the bylaw a bit more but I'd like to see if there's potential for some of this percent for art funding to be utilized
over uh a period of X number of years by art teachers at the or art teacher art teachers depending on how things continue to progress in our lives uh at the schools for ongoing art projects that would be permanent installations I
think that that would be um if if it's doable within the percent far bylaw again I've got it up but don't have my highlighters on me so um I think that would be a great use and if that is possible I would not support reducing the funds because I think I know what
the impact would be Andy yes pursuant to uh town meeting rules of procedure I make a motion to postpone consideration of this motion
until the council meeting of May 20 2025 is there a second second deangeles okay so did he say May 20th may may yes yes May 20th
2025 so speak to I'm now that there's been a second I'm going to ask you to speak to the motion please yeah I'm I I speak in the in the spirit of comments previously raised I uh instantly when I heard the
motion thought that uh I really wanted to offer an opportunity for the public Arts commission to um have an opportunity to offer their input and their assessment of the amount of funds
that are needed I didn't think that this was a motion that needed to be approved tonight thought that there was plenty of time I thought U it's for the budget even for this year would be completed if we gave them U that time and uh that was
the basis of the motion okay so the motion's been point of order I believe that the council meeting is on May 19th not the 20th is that uh let me check that I'm I have my calendar up it's the 19th Monday yeah it's the 19th is that
what you meant Andy yes you can make that change so it's 19 thank you for the editorial and Pat you agree with the editorial thank you um are there any other comments the motion on the floor now is postponement to May 19th 2025
that is the motion we have to deal with so point of point of order um I thought I recalled that if a um a delay was requested that it be until the that we're required to do it the next meeting whichever meeting of the full Council
occurs next when when a motion is made to postpone it can be made to postpone to a date certain is my understanding a counselor could make a motion to postpone to a date certain the provision in the charter that allows a counselor to end debate on a motion and
postpone it to the next regular meeting is not what and is doing yeah it's a it's a different procedure uh I do have one question that goes with this motion and that is would you like the um commission the um public Arts commission
to make a presentation to us is that your thought Andy I think that's up for the commission um it just seemed that it was a uh well-intentioned group that has
spent a lot of time uh developing uh the arguments for creating a percent for art PR program and uh I wanted to give them sufficient time to make a decision is to
whether they want to present additional information uh or whether they are feeling that the amount that has been suggested in uh the motion that's was first made is sufficient to achieve
their goals so the motion that's on the floor is the motion to postpone to um May 19th 2025 that's the that is the motion to be spoken to Kathy yeah to build on your question
Lynn um I think based on the comments were made on what would 250 get you versus 100 or 150 there's something in between those numbers it would be useful if we come back to this to get that information to us before before we talk
about it again my impression from earlier conversations on what other schools have spent on art is that a lower budget would buy us significant art and I just want to say there there isn't an option in between of just
hoping that they might that the commission the public art commission might come in with less once we set a budget that's the budget that they will spend and they will be advertising and soliciting art you know with the understanding that it has to cover it's
it's not if we don't set a budget lower than that it will be at the 250 level so I just want people to understand that there's um because you could get multiple art projects and then the last Anna in my understanding of the
bylaw is that art teachers could and should be part of the selection process but there wouldn't be a set aside for in classroom art unless they applied for it you know so there could be a proposed piece of art done and the only final
comment is because this wasn't done earlier the installation of all of this has to come after the school is fully created and the project is in there's no longer the possibility of indenting a wall you know creating a a resource
there's nothing going to be built in so if it's on a wall it'll be applied to the wall but there are places that could happen that so it's not that we can't do that but it even doing that would have to happen after the work is done it can't there's a
provision that it can't slow down Construction in in this the way it's written so I just want to Andy I think the purpose of yours is to gather information you know give us a couple months to get more information um so I I just want to make sure if that's the
purpose we ask for it I I've heard that uh Paul you have your hand up yeah I just want to clarify that when this comes back May 19th will Cathy's motion be on the table as the action item it it has to be on the yes it is thank you for
clarifying that I also want to clarify uh councelor hani's suggestion since I think it was a question I had asked at one point and that is whether or not the um common out in front of the school um other these
common I guess it's called could actually be a place where this art is placed um so uh we're going to move to the vote on the motion to to postpone to May 19th 2025 I'm going to begin with councelor
ET yes Lynn grimer is an i councelor hanii i Bob hegner I councelor Lord I Pam Ry yes George Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes Alicia
Walker yes Patti Angeles hi Anna Devin goth here no okay the motion passes 12 in favor one opposed we're going to move on
to um the proposed acceptance no hold on one second please that's not what we're doing next thank you uh we're going to move on to the referral of the community preservation act funding recommendations to the finance committee we've approved the
referral but I want to just say that although we have approved the referral through the consent agenda we will have a brief presentation now by the chair of the community preservation act committee Sam McLoud and at that time and also
controller Holly Drake is present with us since she uh was part of the staff for the committee um I want to make sure that if there are questions that the council wants to make sure the finance committee addresses this is the time to
raise those questions or to Pro provide them other in writing to the finance committee so with that welcome Sam uh thank you Lynn we're ready to queue up the presentation and Holly welcome as
well and thanks for your work on this with the committee and thanks to the committee so thank you so uh yeah I had a very brief slideshow I know the council's extremely busy uh I do want to call attention to
council members but also to those listening that there is a report for this fiscal Year's CPA uh deliberations that is within the packet here and it should be on the Town Council excuse me the CPA page website
for download some point soon and there's also this slideshow I also do uh recommend to any who have interest to uh go ahead and take a look at the actual applications that we received which appear on the leftand side of the uh the
CPA page of the town website there's good information there and if someone wants to really look further into any particular project they can find the actual presentations that were made and the deliberations around them on a given
project by going to the CPA web page of the town uh website and looking at the recordings of meetings uh we do that all the time when we're recreating minutes and I do that when I'm trying to refresh my memory it's a good resource for
anyone in the community uh and those who are in the no or not in the no so we had uh 11 this is the fiscal year 26 uh committee recommendations meaning
commencing next July uh that is say this July um first going through the following July 1 if you could cue the next page I'll try to be quick here Lynn so these are our committee members I want to recognize uh all the members and
their contributions they've worked very hard uh I'm Sam McLoud the chair kti Allen zel is the vice chair uh member at large Tim Neil who was a bit bus this year he stepped down from a vice chair member at large Bob Saul Robin foram
representing the historical commission David Williams representing the Housing Authority Matt Kaine representing the Recreation Commission and Jason Dorney representing the Conservation Commission we don't currently have a planning board representative we're hoping that they
will uh fill that slot in time for appointment for the next cycle next slide so this is a summation of the uh total recommended Appropriations uh for the projects uh we delineate the total
values by category there are four categories for which we can provide funding recommendations it's community housing historical preservation open space and Recreation the other two Administration and budgeted Reserve our extras the total comes to
$2.29 million it's important for those watching who may not be familiar that these are proposals and projects and funding that must and can only be spent in these categories the money is not available for use in other areas it's
designed to enhance and encourage uh Community uh programs the largest amount was the recreation uh open space uh is categorized for a 10% match with Recreation but we didn't have any
proposals historic preservation and community housing are similar that includes uh Debt Service as well from prior years next slide so here's a listing of the applications that we received and the
organization who submitted the application the title of the project that we received on the application is listed first followed by the submitting entity the first one you see is community housing uh General funding amh
HT and it's similar for the rest you can find this in the report for those who wish to look at them by downloading it from the website uh but we had a predominance of recreation submittals uh we had 11 in total and our
commit uh responded favorably and wanted to support all of the programs we jockeyed the dollar amounts that were available to try to accommodate uh all the projects there was a higher amount requested than the
available funding and uh fortunately the town staff uh and uh talked about the priorities that they had and we were able to uh reduce some of the proposals to arrive at uh uh a funding amount that
will allow us to support all these projects and it's great to see these every year next slide so community housing we tend to get a proposal every year from the affordable housing trust that's really the arm that drives the development of
affordable housing uh projects that you see going up throughout town uh and they had asked initially for $500,000 but recognizing their existing balance that they have from prior
Awards uh but still wishing to support it the committee uh supported a $300,000 recommendation and the vote was unanimous next slide uh that next category is historic preservation we have an interesting
proposal from the amist historical commission they're looking to do an architecture study of amoris mar modern architecture that's really properties that are defined from the 30s through the uh 70s they've done prior
studies but this would be for houses not that have not been previously inventoried they develop an inventory sheet with photographs and descriptions and they submit it to the state registry uh very modest request 15,000
uh unanimous approval 88 to0 the photo by the way is uh not one that would be surveyed but I found it interesting it's a Frank Lloyd Wright House that appears uh on campus University Massachusetts the only one in town next
Slide the Jewish community of ammer submitted a request to restore the very large stained glass windows that they have uh on their Main Street property uh there are seven of these windows they're
in uh there's significant cracking damage and risk of uh permanent damage for these windows so there's a sense of urgency um they had a a nice presentation to us one thing that was of
interest and you can find these on the uh uh presentation documents there's no religious uh icons or statements on the Windows themselves so they qualify for a historic
preservation and the Comm they also are contributing 35,000 of their own Community funding for this project and our committee was very much in support uh unanimous 8 to zero next SL this is a couple of images
of the Dickinson Farmhouse that you'll find in the Wildwood Cemetery a very historic building uh deed to ammer um one of the oldest buildings in town they had a prior project for us
where they redid the roof uh they had wanted to do more at that time but there was insufficient funding they came back to us uh what's interesting uh well what's impressive from a Committee Member standpoint is that they raised in
two different uh attempts 15,000 of their own funds that they donated uh to this project themselves um we might have supported it anyway but they're contributing their own funding on their limited budget to try and make this come to fruition
they're going to re replacing the tops of both chimneys they're going to be reworking the milk the uh repointing the bricks throughout and uh windows on the outside uh shutters it's significant
project the reasonable pricing next slide North cemetery fence replacement this is on um Northeast Street this is one that they came to us a previous year but withdrew it due to funding considerations uh the request is
to remove and replace the fence the town of amoris DPW is going to do the removal work them El they adjusted their initial proposal due to the uh limitation of funding uh and it was approved unanimously on
the condition that the town of ammer work and consult with the historical commission regarding the design of the replacement fencing next slide so the town of Amis has a lot of recreation and conservation sites
throughout town this is an ex an image here of the Kendrick Park you'll see a sign in front uh many of our conservation areas and Recreation areas have inconsistent signage and some have those that are in significant
deterioration uh a plan has been generated by the town departments to try to have a more organized and informative uh consistent signage so that visitors can
not just identify where they are but also have contact information if there are any questions or needs um the vote on this proposal was 7 to one uh the issue related in general I'm
paraphrasing due to funding limitations where you're going to prioritize your your funds but $100,000 the need is much greater than that it's apt to be a multi-year project but uh this will provide a better presentation for
our Recreation and conservation areas and also assist with the information next next slide mil River baseball fields they're seeking to install electrical and Dugout for PA systems and other needs uh the
original request was $120,000 it's been reduced this is an overhead view of the M River area there are two Fields um the baseball um support group has
been very involved with uh working with the town to both maintain the fields they put a lot of work in this and they're going to be working with the town to try and uh finish this phase of a multiphase project uh $80,000 next
slide so this is a an image of the existing War Memorial Pool by the high school uh you'll see the basketball court kind of above the pool in the middle of the photo there um the bath house is to the
right of the pool just above the tree there which is in significant significantly bad condition and essentially needs to get replaced if we're going to uh continue to have the pool there according to the uh Town
staff who presented The Proposal uh they've already received funding for design and it's nearly complete perhaps it's complete at this point it wasn't at the time of our meeting um and it it's apt to go where the
basketball court is right now that you see above it that would be the location we've already provided last year uh 700,000 for this and the intent of the town is
to um apply for Park and water grants that for matching funds these funds would be utilized to enable the town to maximize and leverage uh other funds that could be coming from the state uh so we as a
committee uh discussed the various needs of recreation and Amorous but we did uh support and want to support this project recognizing that it's Central to the new master plan for the Recreations uh important points that
were brought up is that there's going to be a new track and field uh that's being installed and there are no external restrooms available in that whole area whether it be the baseball SOC Diamond
uh this pool or the track and field and the new design would of the bath house would have exterior facing restroom so that was a significant factor for some of the committee members um it's a multi-e project this is not the only
funding but we wanted to as a committee uh by a vote of 8 to Zer to advance this proposal to allow the town to seek the external funding and matching the funds that they can next slide uh town of ammer recreation
improvements anyone who's been in town for some time and visitors recognize the really wonderful trails and uh bridges that we have uh throughout town and they're constantly in need of repair um
the town does a great job of maintaining these it's a great attraction for visitors and there's a huge backlog of bridges and other repairs that are needed ongoing so the committee wanted to support the of their efforts to
um uh maintain these areas next slide so gral park here are two images in the photo the parking lot and the sloping Hill uh the intent of this application is to do the design work to uh
enable accessibility improvements for the park as you come in you'll notice that there's no real sidewalk from the main road on mil Road mil Lane to uh the recreation area it's just an open space
open pavement uh and similarly with the new Pavilion that was built down on the hill on the left there um there's no access for those who may have mobility issues so the intent of this is to come
up with a design for uh this work and part of that would be to review the entire site uh in a cost efficiency basis uh and they would come back again in a subsequent year I
assumed to commence the the work and the committee was very much in support of this 8 to Zer $100,000 next slide um Parks equipment essentially uh tables uh bench um trash containers permanent ones
throughout town uh they're very much needed uh these photos I'm not sure where they're located I believe one of them is uh these may be from a website I'm not sure they're town of amers but throughout town the uh they came to us
recognizing the need continually to replace these uh and the committee members thought it was a great use of funds to enhance uh the usage so that not just highly mobile individuals but uh
families can enjoy these areas next slide we recommended no funding for administration or general Reserve fees next slide there are prior years where we
have awarded uh uh recommended and the town is was awarded uh bonding Debt Service for the various projects that you can see in front of you uh good news is the Kendrick Park that was uh built about four years ago the debt
service is complete uh at this time with the fifth the fifth year but uh the one thing that you'll note that's different from prior Years you'll see two for the track and field there's the original proposal and then there's the most recent one that was passed this last fall I did hear today that uh this track
and field project is now going forward that it's uh scheduled uh to commence once the school year end which would be great for the town but this is a summary of the debt that's included in our we have to support the debt but it's 638
550 this year next slide so I guess I guess that's it uh thank you for your patience uh I recommend again looking at the uh applications and the slides and uh if there are questions if I'm able to answer I
will okay thank you very much and thanks again for your work uh we'll begin with Bob hegner uh thanks Sam um I have a question about the trail on foot Bridge construction um improvements are will
any of those be Ada accessible or are we going to have more of the the same that we have now um I'm not cognizant that the Ada accessibility for the specific Trails was
delineated um I believe this is to maintain the existing ones I do see that Dave Zac is here with his hand raised uh of theer to the expert on this Dave please go ahead sure thanks Lynn um so I think the
answer is yes um we are trying to do two things with this funding and some previous funding one is to rehabilitate the existing Ada Trails we have uh we do have a couple around town uh some of them need some upgrading and then two
would be to establish uh some new ones as the council knows um some of the trails a good good number of trails at Hickory Ridge will be fully Ada accessible but we are planning some other ones around town I will say that as Sam noted there is kind of a backlog
of fixing what we have so we need to repair Bridges we need to repair bog Bridges um so we want to take care of what we have before we build new there are some interesting locations for Ada trails that we're looking at possibly in
the future Wentworth Farm Conservation Area would would be appropriate for that uh frankly amethyst Brook uh it's flat it's dry it's wide uh something could work there as well so those are some ideas for the
future thanks George I'm sorry Council Ryan um first of all Sam thank you very much for your hard work and the work of your committee um my question is is about the war memorial I think I understand this but I just want to be clear that the 500,000 essentially is
equivalent to sort of good faith money to help us in the hopes of securing a Parks Grant or some other kind of state aid and if that fortunately doesn't succeed then that money goes back to CPA for other uh possible uses is that do I understand that correctly uh if the
project doesn't go forward that money and previously awarded money would go back into the pool of available CPA funds um I guess you could call it good faith money uh the town came to us with a a
program a project that they've identified as a need and indicated the uh current status of funding uh it's a multi-year approach they did the design work or mostly completed that initial
funding I believe was two cycles ago um and they were trying to as a committee the committee wanted to support the project but yes the funding would be returned if not completed and it's not it would not be fully funded based
upon uh awarding this this amount right here so the uh long-term funding is uncertain so the purpose is is really to show that we have skin in the game and hopefully that will generate a response from a funding agency that's basically
what it's doing I I guess it would say that uh as as our committee we wanted to support the project because we believe in the the value and benefits and the importance of that location uh and from the application it was made clear that
um these funds are necessary in order to maximize the match amount David you have your hand up again here I just wanted to add something to Sam's response and um I know this is a referral to fincom so
there'll be more discussion in the future but um I wanted to get out in front of the project a little bit as as the council knows many many months ago U there was discussion about the initial
design um project that Sam referenced and some of those cost estimates in the neighborhood of $4 million so uh at Paul's Direction um um DPW staff and and others including myself have kind of re
reconvened on that topic and we're we're trying to look at some creative ideas clearly we would need some outside funding and Sam referenced the Park Grand program uh Land and Water Conservation fund I think because it's a federal program is probably anybody's
guess at this point but uh the state uh funds through Park could be applied to this but the bottom line is we're we're cognizant of of all the capital projects that are out there $4 million is a very big number and uh Paul has has
encouraged us to really sharpen our pencils and look at some creative options for that building and that site so we're we're moving in that direction and if we were to get these funds yes they would build toward a project that would be would need to be considerably
less than $4 million we get that um Pam Rooney thank you that was close to what I was going to ask if there was a h a Target amount for the bath house and I think you just spelled that out um I wasn't sure it wasn't clear to me
the uh the borrow for uh the track and field area to have 112,000 for two two times in one year um has the money already been borrowed and we're starting to pay it back and this is like payback for two years in a row um how do we if
we haven't borrowed yet why do we need two payments in one year I think this is a a holly question probably that'd be great I'm happy to answer that if you'd like please sure so there were actually two CP CPA
allocations one for 800,000 originally and then a second one for 800,000 so it will actually be two separate borrowing articles at this point if the project moves forward they were um two completely separate articles in in separate
Years thank you uh councelor hanii so I'll ask a number of questions at Finance but the one I have for tonight um is I noticed that CPA did not recommend any allocation for administration and normally CPA does
recommend an allocation for administration whatever the maximum allowed by the law is um and so I'm curious why you did not allocate for administration this year and then I'm also curious and this might be a holly or a Paul question actually more than a
Sam question how does that affect our budget going forward for I believe the planning department is where it would normally be allocated or who who is the alazon but I'm not sure who who benefits from that allocation of admin how does it affect
the budget for whatever department does benefit from that allocation when it happens since it normally does have an allocation okay Holly you've raised your hand please go ahead yes so the am I on oh I am you are you're fine um yes I'm sorry thought I was muted uh so this CPA
um votes administrative funds every year and we have enough money in carryover from prior years to cover our administrative funds for future years um we pay for the CPA funds are administrated basically through my office as Lea on to the CPA committee
and it is to pay our annual dues um with the CPA Coalition and it is to pay any advertising costs which tends to run less than $5,000 a year and I believe we have currently about $25,000 in administrative funds as we had set funds
aside to purchase some signs and do some other things that just have not come come to fruition yet so we have plenty of money available in admin funds okay thank you Anna I'm trying to get a grasp on the war memorial poll project because I'm
looking back and I think this is I I did really try to do my own research here and figure it out but I'm I'm I need some help so in fiscal year 24 oop sorry CPA allocated 200,000 for
the feasibility study the initial feasibility then in fiscal year 25 uh we voted 750,000 um at that point that was referred to in the application as phase two I think the phases as the project has evolved the phases have possibly
also evolved um which is fine I'm just trying to again this is me trying to wrap my head around this and then um but and the same reason were given so the same kind of this is the matching funds this is all of that so uh now it's the second
750,000 being requested for kind of the same reason as from what I can tell I'd like to know when the um when the relevant departments anticipate applying for those Park and uh lwcf grants and
the jump the estimated total in fiscal year 25 was 1 and a half to 2 million and I just was curious if inflation is to blame for all of those increased costs to now it now being estimated at 4 million um or if there's something else but any thoughts and if I'm misreading
the applications that's fine but i' I'd like to hear kind of an update on the anticipated timeline and why the costs ballooned so significantly uh and I think that's all I see Dave has this hand up I'll just speak for the committee there was discussion about one pool versus two pools in ammer
uh the committee supported uh the concept of retaining the pool and therefore bath house uh in the Central Area due to a variety of reasons including significantly external facing uh restroom areas and changing areas
um and you're you know astute in terms of some of the uh multiple descriptions that were similar from a committee standpoint we recognize that uh the design phase is ongoing but it is not uh
set in stone uh due to funding limitations and not having it all available initially and uh we knew the prior year that would it was going to be more than one request for funding so
we simply voted to support the project and to enable the uh do our part to provide the recommendation to enable the town to move forward uh Dave I see that you have your hand up I'd be glad to
uh pass I'm actually going to call on Dave and Holly to find to provide additional light on yeah let me if I could maybe Holly can speak to the numbers um first I think it's really important again we'll get into more of this with the finance committee but I I
hope you all recall earlier conversations about the bath house at War Memorial Pool this is a 1950s building it is by no fault of the town in it's an old building it's cinder
block it is a very simple but um uh a a building that was constructed on a very low budget back in the 1950s and um it's it's showing its age so DPW every year does does amazing work to try to get it
ready to go for the summer season and you may recall some years ago uh we closed it for a couple of years until we were able to redo the liner of the pool and work on the filtration system and we've spent CPA money monies on that in the past and we're doing more of that
work right now DPW is so we're doing everything we can to keep this resource open uh recognizing that we do have two outdoor pools and one indoor pool uh public pools so a lot of work goes into this every year the plumbing is
challenging the Ada is challenging um the electrical is challenging so um that having said that the initial money as was was referenced earlier was for design and feasibility and that was
really to look at a new building that with the assumption that the old building really was a tear down so when DPW working with their team and their designer got into it uh essentially that's where the cost estimate came of
roughly $4 million and again we don't have time tonight to go into this but again think of some of the initial cost estimates for the north amoris library and how those climbed so our initial thoughts were maybe $1 1.5 to $2 million
and that's where this plan of building toward that the CPA dollars having a solid design building toward the um uh uh say 50% or 60% of the cost and then going out for matching funds it was a a
bit of a gut punch for all of us when we got a $4 million cost estimate and this is that was not a design that had a lot of bells and whistles it's a pretty basic building uh to serve the pool the lifeguards the public and have uh external facing uh restrooms and move it
to the Eastern side of the the pool at war memorial so with that feasibility work and with that number again uh working with Paul Paul and feedback from you all when that came out publicly we at Paul's Direction
really hit the pause button on that $4 million movement moving forward and so now we're in a bit of a phase of relooking at that project we are going to look at the existing building we're going to look at some other alternatives
for uh redesign and so that's where we are right now so I I wish I could give you a timeline on on buying for Grants but really I can't and I just want to be upfront about that we do believe we still want to build toward a project
because honestly that building is not going to be available to the public for very much longer every year it has to pass uh codes for the building by you know set for building code and health code to open it to the public and every
year DPW does a wonderful job getting us to that to that Finish Line but they and we can't guarantee that every year and so it's a valued asset to the to the community and we want to get a plan but so the the plan was to keep coming
forward with this proposal for 500,000 to go with a 750 already allocated and and this spring and summer look at a a creative option that is less than a $4 million building so that's really where
we are we you know um there's pictures of War Memorial Pool the bath house and they're they're not great there's a lot of Plumbing issues and Ada issues etc etc as youve probably seen so that's one of the best explanation I can put out there tonight so can I clarify then that
we have actually with the vote of this additional amount will have put 1.25 million toward the bath house correct thank you Anna thank you for if you vote for this half a million in in the weeks ahead uh
Holly I I I think I was just going to say it in a slightly different way is that this is an amount to move this project forward this amount is not currently 100% tied to a grant match that's what the hope is is that it will
be a grant match but if the grant does not come to fruition we may relook at this if the grant does come to fruition this is what it will be used for but but it is not 100% linked to a Grant application is just additional funds to move the
project forward if that makes sense I think Dave said it differently that's the long and short of it great Onna does that include yes okay um uh Jennifer you had your hand up and took it down um yes I I'm glad to see this is moving forward
I my question was really just if the pool was in good shape this my question to Dave but he answered some of that that they've recently done some maintenance work are there any other questions at this time then uh again thank you Sam and the
committee and Holly and Dave for all the work you do with this committee um this has been referred to finance and we hope to see it back uh within about a month at the latest okay uh and with that we are going to take a five minute break we
will return at 840 no 8:20 sorry 8:20 thank you e e e e
e e as you return Please turn your videos back on wasn't we need to reconvene please um take your seats so we can continue our meeting thank you
uh all right we're going to uh continue I'm going to begin the next item which is um a proposal for the acceptance of Statute enabling Amber students stall and operated School Bus violation detection monitoring systems I'm going
to begin with a motion seek a second and then I'm going to um turn it over to councelor hanii who is the council sponsor for this um actually I'm going to I am gonna wait there's two motions um so councelor
hanii would you please introduce your um proposal I'm G to start with a motion okay um I'm gonna move at and hopefully I pick the right committee okay I'm G to pick one if people have a problem with it I would be happy to Friendly amend
that committee on the motion uh to refer the proposed acceptance of mgl chapter 40 section 7 1 to TSO with with a report to the Town Council by April 28th 2025 I think one one's dreading it over
here second okay um this is the school bus violation detection monitoring one8 TSO councelor hanii would you like to speak to you there was I seconded it so about two months ago Governor Hy
signed a law that for the first time in Massachusetts would allow essentially um violation detection systems to result in traffic or tickets of some sort for motor vehicle law violations we don't
have red light cameras in our state they're not allowed by law this is the this this school bus monitoring system violation law is the first time in Massachusetts that you would be able to sort of issue a ticket through sort of video camera violations if you want to
call it that but in order to do so um it is it is it was written as a local option law so each Town there's a lot of steps to go but a town has to accept sort of the provisions that would allow using a
video camera mounted on a bus to video people essentially driving by the bus while it's stopped and kids are loading and unloading um this is not monitoring the bus drivers this is cameras on the outside trying to to identify vehicles
that are not stopping when the bus is stopped to load and unload children um the first step in that authorization is the Town Council in a in a city like ours the Town Council accepting that law
that does not Institute the actual doing of it the schools are then in charge of deciding whether they want to and then actually dealing with the systems and I know it costs and I know it's probably
unlikely that they would do it but I was in looking at this I was thinking we can remove a barrier to that conversation if we want to because since this is the first time some this type of sort
of ticket system would be instituted in town I thought it might require a conversation amongst us as to whether this is a type of ticketing we would want to move forward on in case red light
ticketing comes in later to sort of start that conversation and say you know do we want tickets to be able to be issued through video evidence on um which which is sort of different than what it's being issued for but is a
conversation and that that's why I'm referencing asking for a referral to have that conversation and say is this something we want to do we have a surveillance Tech bylaw we have been concerned about surveillance in the past I do not believe this falls under that bylaw because it would be the school department
instituting if you want to call it surveillance surveillance the monitoring system and all of that um but a committee can certainly look into that and I also don't know because of how the law is written this is why that's the schools problem we don't own all our buses and
we have a region and we have all this complication I don't think we as a council need to get into that complication we as a council need to say is this something we would want to allow in town and so I'm asking for it to be referred to have that conversation okay
thank you Bob you have your hand up yeah I I um I I like the idea of this but um I happened to be working in New Jersey at a time when they were discussing they they were they had install in in they had passed a law that
allowed red light Runners to be ticketed by automatic means and they ran into terrible opposition because basically people hired lawyers and said I wasn't driving that car at the time you can't prove it was me who was driving the car
so it's it's fraught with difficulty in actually enforcing it and they finally just the legislator just said forget about it we're gonna we're going to cancel this legislation so just be aware that the this is a a fraud issue and I personally have witnessed someone
driving by a school bus with its lights splashing I had stopped behind it and fortunately they were picking up they weren't drop dropping off but I mean they just went right by it like it wasn't even there I don't think the person saw it even they were they were busy drinking coffee
or something but um but I've seen it and I I really I want to stop it but I just want to caution people that this is fraught with difficulty Andy yes speaking as the uh shair of
TSO uh I'm not uh in any way questioning the decision to make the referral to us but uh we have have two major things we're trying to work through on a very tight timeline to see if we can get some
progress on them including the transportation parking commission I might talk about that a little bit later when giving the committee report but I would uh respectfully request that we at least be allowed to get through our May
1 TSO meeting um before uh the DAT is set for referral back to the council okay um again the I it only requires that you give us an update it
does not require that you actually make take action or recommendation there's been more than one violation on deadlines um Jennifer yeah I just wanted to um agree
with uh what Bob just said I lived in Los Angeles where they had you could red light monitors and you could get a ticket and it's for the driver but they only have the license so I believe they just have since discontinued it I know people who got tickets and contested it
because they said they weren't the driver they might have been but there's no way so it's it's really difficult to enforce and a lot of states have dropped it thank you George so I'm just quickly thinking out loud what TS so can bring to this
discussion the question seems to focus on whether this body is comfortable with this sort of means of enforcement irrespective of whether it actually works um irrespective of whether it's been asked for by any other body irrespective of its cost so we're not really going to look into costs we're
not really going to bring the school committee forward because it doesn't really revolve that and I doesn't sound like we need to do much research as to its effectiveness at least in New Jersey and in California so I'm not really sure what we can bring to this discussion other than asking our colleagues are you
comfortable with this means of enforcement broadly speaking because if we do say yes this doesn't mean this is going to happen um perhaps for many of the reasons that have already been brought up this evening um cost too much doesn't really work and the school
committees aren't interested in it so if you sent it to TSO perfectly fine agree with the chair we'll take it on but I don't see what we're going to do with it so if somebody can help maybe the sponsor or one of you all can help me understand what you expect TSO to bring
back to you um other than a survey of what you all think about this kind of enforcement which we could do right now by a show of hands councelor hanii I think for a change in even though it might not go into effect because the school
committees would be required to actually Institute it if we adopted this um given the concerns people had about surveillance when we were dealing with surveillance Tech bylaw I think voting on the substance on the same day it it is introduced does not allow the public
enough time to understand what is being asked and that a referral to a committee allows time for the public to be able to understand what is being asked and make comment on it and all of that um it could potentially be satisfied by just a
postponement to a date certain but um it it just allows more time I I would hate for us to make a decision on the same day it is introduced when the public might not in a wide sense be aware of
this possibility and be able to comment on their potential like or dislike of that form of of you know ticketing and all and get other people's opinions besides just the 13 of
us Pat thank you um I'm totally opposed to this listening to people who've had experience in states where it's collapsed and caused more trouble than it was worth that's one thing I also you
know we we send it to the schools who pays for it who upkeep you know do we want to spend our money for schools on a surveillance system and on another completely paranoid level that I never thought I would reach we have an insane
man in the white house with hundreds of people supporting him and backing him up and I don't want anything that will surveil my license plate you know I think about some of the work that's
happening to create basically versions of pipelines to get people uh to safe havens like Canada or no I'm not going to cut it down I'm not I I said I was paranoid um I feel very very strongly
that anything that gives um the government on uh uh any opportunity to surveil or pick up somebody because they were transporting a trans person over the Canadian border or something like that I
don't know how this will be used and I never ever thought I would be this paranoid but with who we have running this country we all need to be paranoid and we all need to step up and speak out and say no to stuff like this plus it's
going to cost too much money and who cares and who's going to get the revenue from the tickets if it even works Andy well I'd leave it up to the Council of course but I think that what my inclination would be as a member of
TSO is to look at at the statute look at who are the sponsors what um we might be able to find out about uh information that the legislature obtained in um in what the
legislature discussed during the legislative process and uh there might be a lot of uh information that's just not available to us now to answer some of the valid question questions that have been put
forward uh and uh so I you know I the reason I wanted to make sure we had enough time is I don't have time to take it seriously but not to put off the um other work that we've been committed to
that I'll report on later the Motions on the floor the motion is a referral to TSL Kathy um I think I will vote against it I don't think we need to set this in motion right now particularly
if the option remains should we ever want to do it and we don't want to spend the money on it so we won't be implementing it so it seems to be premature to have to make a decision on it I also I I think the issue of passing
buses when the stop sign out is real in town and I'm not sure what other corrective actions are available but I'm not sure uh quick snapshot of the car that did it will especially what Bob just spoke it won't
cure the problem and it tends to be uh people in a hurry to get to a class often you know they just don't even slow down and sometimes I think they don't even see this big yellow bus with a little dagger off but so I will I
will vote no because I think I really value the time of our committees and taking time further time to discuss this I certainly would like T TSO has an agenda with some big ticket items both cost wise but also other
decisions that I would like to free up their agenda rather than give them more thank you Anna it's interesting I I do support this I see it as essentially enabling legislation um it
allows our schools to make to it allows our schools to be the deciding body for the needs of students which is their purview uh and we need to take this step in order for the schools to have that ability
um the ACLU talks about this type of traffic enforcement and what they talk about is that it's not the technology that's inherently bad it's that you need strong governance around it so what I
would encourage yeah sorry did you okay okay so I think the um what we would need here is to make sure that our surveillance policies that our other policies are wrapping this up so that we're protecting all of our residents
and all of our community members um so that data isn't shared we've been doing a uh we've been doing what seems to be decent due diligence with all of our other policies on looking at ensuring that our residents are protected we've
got um we've got policies in place to make sure that you know data isn't shared about folks who might be seeking um reproductive care in ammer we've got our surveillance policies are really strong um because of the work that this
Council has done prior terms and I don't see why we cannot make sure that that type of thing is applicable is applied to this type of bylaw the other part here is that there are instant this is not a hypothetical about kids getting
hit when they're getting off for getting on buses this is happening across the state and I honestly I see the red light and the stoplight ticketing programs being different than the programs that are about going around school buses um to me these are those are different uh
different concerns and I hear you Bob when you're talk as someone who's gotten one of those red light tickets I'll just freely admit that now uh when I swear the thing was yellow um that is so different to me in terms of someone challenging that or even receiving that ticket to someone
receiving a ticket with a video of their car going around a school bus and if they really want to fight that you know it's fine go for it that's their right but I do think that it's It's Our obligation to allow our schools to be able to make this choice councelor you
had your hand up it was more a technic not a technical question but I was wondering will the cameras only be operative when the BS is not in motion one would assume so um anyway that's down the road uh the motion on
the table is to refer to TSO I see no other hand so we're going to move to a vote I begin with councelor hanii Hi C uh Bob hegner um
no council Lord nay Pam Rooney no councel Ryan I Kathy Shane no Andy
Steinberg I Jennifer to no Alicia Walker no Pat dangeles no Anna Devin gothier I councilor r no and ly grimer is an i the motion
fails um and um we'll move on to the next one uh get councelor haniki I'm going to allow you to just go ahead and introduce this and decide which motion you want to put forward I move to refer the proposed
acceptance of mgl chapter 59 section five Clauses 22i and J to the finance committee with a report to the Town Council by April
28th 2025 so you combine both motions on the motion sheet we had them as two separate ones but there's no reason not to combine them okay was there a second second okay uh I did I seconded it uh councelor Hanah please go
ahead so this is really technical I think Finance needs to hear from our um our finance director and and all about the budget implications of this it's not something I could provide the
council with um but the hero Act of n of 2024 um enacted last August provided for some local options that increased veteran exemption amounts and changes how you determine eligibility for those exemptions particularly for motor
vehicle exemption um I tried to explain some of it but what I really did was attach the do memo explaining it because I couldn't do it any better it's that technical um we already offer and vote every year a number of exemptions this
changes some that relate to the veterans side of that exemptions but not the other side um so I hope we will consider this I think it's a positive for our V veterans in town um so I hope everyone will vote to refer so we can hear what the actual budget implications of this
would potentially be for our town and I just want to note on the memo there were there's actually two different actions but when councelor hanii made the motion she combined them because they were both referrals in this case to finance and they but they will need to come back
with two separate recommendations okay um Pam Rooney just clarifying that this is this is for motor vehicle exemptions not um property tax exemptions no it's for
property tax exemptions plus some new eligibility for motor vehicle exemptions so it encompasses a bunch of things it's got two different parts to it are there any other questions or comments uh George Ryan so councelor
haniki your your concern is the sort of financial implications of this and perhaps you would say that since we simply don't know it's prudent to find out I personally can't imagine that they would be that great and this would be a boon to our veterans so um how would you
respond to that um I actually agree with you that it would be a bondar veterans I think it's prudent though to understand what the budget implications are as we do when we vote the other exemptions on a yearly basis we get an estimate as to how much that is in less revenue for the
town I think it would be prudent to understand that for this one too but that doesn't mean I I support it with but I think it's a prudent due diligence to understand what that implication is um I just want to make a counselor comment uh first of all I think anything
we can do to support our veterans is better than we're seeing in Washington and second of all uh however I do think this is the same po of money we just decided to reduce to get to the 4% so um I think it is very important to
the finance committee to look at it thank you uh Andy yeah I'm not sure uh but I going to talk to Melissa about this before I say it with certainty but I believe
that when you uh give exemptions you don't reduce the tax amount that the town can tax you're shifting who you're taxing in amount and uh so the if that
is correct then we would want to know um what is the amount that's being reduced that's uh then being Shi and is it being shifted and how much is that going to affect other people in town those are a
series of questions and uh I I would uh like to be able to ask Melissa okay um so the motion is in fact to refer this to the finance committee where some of those issues can in fact
be explored are there any other questions or comments see none I'm going to start with Bob hegner councelor Lord hi Camp ham roone yes George Ryan hi Kathy Shane yes Andy
Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes Alicia Walker yes Patti Angeles hi Anna Devin gothier hi uh councelor ET I Lyn grimer is and I counselor hanii hi it's unanimous and that actually took care of
the rest of those who we're moving on to the proposed bylaw outlawing public urination and this is a the motion please go ahead councelor hanii link can I just ask a quick question on the referral is there a date that we have to
report back on um the only thing yes thank you for asking that the only thing I would suggest is that we need to have make sure this is reported back in time for us to vote the tax exemptions which we usually do around the end of
June okay is that correct Paul it says April 28th it does say April 28th but I I just if it if it can slide it can slide but we vote tax exemptions in June okay does
that help Kathy yes just uh for plating um the meetings absolutely got it Anna did you have a question I'm just gonna argue with the motion that Mandy's about to make so I can wait you're going to argue on which one
the next one what Mandy's about to say I was just being proactive okay all right I see a bunch of hands up uh are we done with this one are we ready to move on to the next one to ad to e uh Council Lord
did you have a oh lining up they're lining up uh councelor hanii I'm going to let you just take it on um to refer to the governance organization and legislation committee the proposed General bylaw
3.xx because it doesn't have a number yet public urination with a report um to the Town Council by I'm G to be generous June 30 2025 okay I'll second it uh for the purpose of discussion Anna you have your
hand up all right so I get to speak to my motion oh sorry you do get to so as as the memo said the the origination of this was when I was in meetings with um Chief
Ting uh last year for some other thing this Council was doing that that I had concerns with at the council and was told by Paul to just meet with the chief and talk about it I forget what it was and and during that meeting when we
were talking he said you know what would be really helpful is a public urination bylaw that prohibits public urination in town because we don't have one um and that the only things when when it happens in our town the only tickets the
officer can write is one for either um a warning or a summons for indecent exposure um or disorderly conduct and that a lot of times neither of those is
necessarily the appropriate citation um that that indicates exactly what the issue was and why the citation was there and incent exposure citations I believe I'm sure the chief would correct me if I'm wrong
um might come with some um sexual offender issues with it which is why there's a very big hesitation to write those for a a simple public urination but for something that's not necessarily equated with sexual offender status um
and so so I did some research I looked at other municipalities that have these and there's a lot of decisions to be made with them I'm hoping that go will talk to our chief that this will get referred that that our chief will and the police will have some input into
what they are the way it is currently proposed since I had to propose something is I went as broad as possible basically um and said you know if towns did this I'm going to add that in if they did that I'm going to add it in make it as broad as possible so that we could sort of decide if we wanted it
narrower um I think in a town like ours that sadly has a lot of public urination and sometimes on specific weekends that giving our police tools to
write a noncriminal citation for public urination or even a criminal Citation for public UR ation is something that could be beneficial to them and to our town so I hope the council will consider referring this to go I know Anna
disputes the go I do not believe this is really a town service Town service has a lot going on um it is not a community resource either it's not land use um so I think go since it's a general bylaw is
the more appropriate committee I'm obviously open to what whatever committee people think is appropriate but I would think it's Joel Anna the mission statement of the ammer police department includes APD strives
to protect the safety rights and property of every person within the town of ammer while it may feel confusing APD giving issuing tickets is them working towards realizing their mission
that is the service that they provide in maintaining the safety rights and property protecting the safety rights and property they strive to do that in part through giving tickets like what is proposed under this
bylaw the charge of TSO includes review and make recommendations to the Town Council on measures that may affect the provision of services to the committee Community by a town Department while it may feel counterintuitive to
consider ticketing being provision of a service it is the work of APD so my my logic here is that the work of our town departments
and how they do that work and how they engage in it has in the past gone to TSO if this goes to go as being because it pertains to not a what has been stated not to be a direct service then I
expect all other legislation regarding police policy to immediately also go to go and not go to TSO so I do believe this should go to TSO because it is concerning the work of a town department and how they do that
work go is happy to review this for clarity consistency and actionability but this is about the work of a town department and how they do it therefore it should go to the town services and Outreach committee councel
Lord oh I'm so sorry yes can I I had another note can I say that too please on a separate note something say I kind of a lot of arm raises from my side of the bench here all right um the other SE uh other item I had here was a question so I was
looking at the town of ammer website where we have a list bless you a list of public restrooms available in town and when they are available my concern about this type of bylaw is when we enact it and what options people have especially folks who don't have a home uh a a
physical building home so Paul my question for you is what is the ETA on the restroom at Kendrick Park I know that we do the only my understanding is that the only currently available 24-hour bathroom is in the
ammer police department current other restrooms are available sunrise to sunset at the parks and within business hours at town hall Jones mson North ammer Etc um so I'm curious about when the restroom in Kendrick Park would be
available and I would encourage waiting to enact this bylaw until there is a second restroom available that's not in the police station Paul so the the restroom will be installed before the council votes this
I can guarantee that great we anticipate it'll be ready by mid July thank you and will that be open 24 hours I can't remember I apologize I don't know the answer to that if it's 24 hours or not okay thank you okay um councelor Lord um
thank you it's really in alignment with the last comment that um Anna made I'm trying to counselor Evelyn got here um about maybe the majority in this town is college kids or KNE breeded college kids
but I feel like criminalizing public urination at least for me personally feels really problematic in 2010 as an emmer resident I was on house for nine months and at that time Craigs doors didn't open till 9:30 and then Jones
would be closed and there were times where I would discretly like go into the woods over there and have to do what I had to do and if I had gotten a $300 ticket or the next one I would be in jail I would not be sitting here today perhaps I don't know it just feels really problematic and um New York City
passed this in 2023 and then last year they gave almost 10,000 tickets one to a mother whose four-year-old had to pee and I've been there with a three-year-old oh I just have to go so bad and they potty train so we go to a bush discreetly and PE and then do I get a $300 fine or a 75 whatever the
gradation is so I just think I agree that um if we have more access to public restrooms some of us won't go into police apartment from different trauma or fear or whatever it is so I'm glad we're going to have one at Kendrick Park I know the Lutheran CH church is 24
hours but if I have to hold it and wait till I get there that could cause renal damage or Ur a tract infection so I think before I'm going to vote no to push this forward yet until we have more access to public um spaces where people
can pee in private thank you councelor Ryan it's my pleasure to agree with my distinguished colleague next to me here I think that uh if this does go forward and that's a fair question it should go to TSO um it raises issues that are far
outside of what go does um not that TSO is eager to take on more work but um I think she makes a good point that if this does go forward it should go to TSO Leisha um I just want to thank you I
want to agree also that I think if this to move forward it would make more sense to go to TSO just inconsistent with other um initiatives that we've sent to TSO versus go um but I would also agree with councelor Lord that I'm not necessarily in favor of criminalizing
this kind of action especially um without Alternatives and just reminding that those things happen other places and not just in the center of town um and so like I'm just also thinking the number of occasions that I've had to pull over on the side of the road because my kids can't hold it till we get at home or can't hold it till we get
to a bathroom and that happens very often um and like councelor Lord said I've heard of young children getting tickets for this um so just personally that raises an alarm for me in addition to unhoused folks but just being mindful
of the fact that they don't only congregate in the center of town where there might happen to be another bathroom soon and multiple people sometimes need to use the bathroom at the same time Andy yeah the point that was just made by uh
councelor Walker is about not wanting to criminalize behavior um I would U like to hear more from Chief Ting because it's my understanding that his concern is that
the only thing that they can do right now if they feel that something is egregious enough that action is required is to do something that's a criminal offense and a ticketed offense um is uh
does not carry that same baggage with it and he was look it's my understanding and of course this comes through councelor hanii that he was looking for an alternative that was less
punitive um so I guess that um I'm not sure how I'm going to come out on it in the end but I do um think that it is worth pursuing a little bit to um get into those questions and I know that um
some people who live in some sections of town in particular uh are uh very much offended by uh what they view as uh behavior that
they find distasteful and I do uh you know I'm not sure how I feel about their reaction to it but I don't disrespect it um Jennifer you know my response when I
read um the motion you living in a district where um you know people Traverse at night from the bars to where they're going but if if one sees that activity by the time they call the police and the police come it's long
since nobody's there so I do wonder about the effectiveness in my district for that population definitely Kathy that actually was it I think Jennifer said you have to catch someone
in the ACT to be actually to do this I think it it sounds like there's a downside to doing this um that's pretty severe it never would have occurred to me uh councelor Walker that this would be applied to young kids on the side of the road um
and so so the motion on the floor is a referral and and if we don't refer it dies is that what happens that is correct thank you I'll stop talking um there is a motion there is has been a suggestion that the referral be to
TSO even to the point that the chair of TSO has indicated no actually the vice chair of TSO has indicated he thinks that's probably more appropriate uh councelor hanii do you want to change the motion to do that I am happy to as long as you agree as my seconder to
change it from go to T I agree okay you had other comments okay uh Anna so I I wanted to just clarify one point um that councelor hanaki made in
her Memo if I am understanding correctly it's not our current situation is not that there is no um is is no consequence for possible
consequence for public urination it's that we don't currently have tickets as a possible consequence for public urination so and and i' am happy to be corrected if I'm not understanding but if I'm reading this
correctly saying that there is um this is creating a different option that might actually be more reasonable than what's currently available which is either uh and nothing remains all nothing is always an option doing nothing or a verbal warning is always an
option but right now the options are nothing verbal warning or criminal yes punishment so I my my thought here is that this actually well it's seems counterintuitive again our Baseline is
not no our Baseline is not zero we are starting with a baseline that's already punitive if we were starting from a baseline of zero I'd say no let's not bring this in but we're not we're starting from a baseline where one of the possible consequences is really aggressive and the other possible
consequence is doing nothing so I would rather have a middle ground um than have half of the like then have one of the options be that aggressive and I don't think that this is a pretty solution to be clear um and I want I
want TSO to discuss this further but I just I wanted to clarify we're not talking about there being no consequence uh no possible consequence um so I don't know I still am wrapping my head around it which is why I do support referral
thanks okay I'm I'm gonna not comment Alicia um Anna makes a really good point there and I'm wondering if you might able to just clarify Mandy Joe because I think you stated earlier that the options were ticket for indecent exposure a different ticket for some
conduct related something what are the differences between that and what's being proposed because if it's just another ticket is there a different is there a different thing or is it just literally the wording and what would be on the ticket that we're changing because do tickets also carry
fines is there a different fine being applied like what is the actual difference between what is being proposed and what is currently what the current options are councelor haniki so I think hna stated it properly and appropriately um right now according
to Chief Ting um and I pulled it it's a quote from Chief Ting from a something he wrote me in an email just so you know so I and he said when our officers encounter these circumstances their options are a verbal warning a summons
to court for disorderly conduct and or indecent exposure or arrest for these two options disorderly conduct or indecent exposure he wrote a TBL ticket and I added that's the local bylaw ticket option that we've got um would
give our officers another option that may be more reasonable for these instances rather than a criminal route so our local bylaws while it says criminal or non-criminal they're different than an actual will state
criminal law violation um that that's one of the big differences and and and I I want to say when I introduced this I said I proposed the sort of the broadest sort of wording
out there I fully accept expect and would accept and would not contest limiting this even further to make it a more narrow one including removing as I wrote in in in the current proposal criminal enforcement instead of just
non-criminal disposition um like I said I I put in there sort of all the language so it's easier because it's always easier to subtract language than it is to add language and so I put it all in there it's also why I put sort of what the other bylaws do and what the
what the decision points are um and I would expect wherever this gets referred that that committee and the chief of police discuss what is most appropriate for our town for this bylaw including the fine whether it's both criminal and
non-criminal and whether it applies in any public place just on public ways within distances of public places within distances of perennial waters on public on private land but viewable from you know there's so many options right um
and and that needs discussed it can't be decided by one counselor making a proposal and so that's that's why I support referral and hope that it gets referred so that those decisions can be made in the right place Pam
rone uh if if I were to consider supporting this for referral um I would suggest that the date for a return and a reply to the council be no sooner than August I think this if it's something
that comes into play it's probably at the start of the school year to be very blunt um so there is absolutely no need to rush on this um thank you um Alicia yeah sorry I just had a follow up Mandy Joe thank you that
was helpful I'm wondering if you might just add mention of the fines because that was just the second piece to my question um like do the current choices for ticketing include fine
and would this also include a fine would it be different are they uniform may I please so my understanding is and I I Chief Ting would have to clarify this but if you're written a ticket under state law for either
indecent exposure or disorderly conduct that is a criminal offense criminal offenses come with jail time or probation not with fines and so that's jail time or probation and permanent records on
court documents would be able to correct me if I am wrong when it's a local bylaw it comes with a ticket right and a fine and in there might be fines along with it but it can result in jail time
right or probation right and are there any other question fine yeah sorry I just have a couple other if you don't pay a fine that can also result in jail time correct that I cannot answer regarding a local bylaw I I don't know okay the chief
would have to answer or our town attorney would have to answer that and these all of these questions because I have more but I feel like they might be more appropriate to ask like if this were to be referred then we would revisit it at that time you can also forward your questions to TSO which was
would be really the best thing to do if we vote to refer the vote on the floor now is to refer to TSO right now it has a June 30th date on it again those dates have never been hard and
fast so if it doesn't get here till August it's fine no more questions we're going to move to a vote We Begin the vote with um councelor Lord
nay Pam Rooney uh yes councelor Ryan hi Kathy Shane no Andy Steinberg yes Jennifer to yes councelor Walker
no Patti Angeles I Anor dein gothier i councelor r no Lyn grimer is an i councelor hanaki i Bob hegner councelor Lord oh that's that's right I'm sorry
I all right uh the good news is that may be close to our last vote um the uh eyes have it there are nine in favor and four opposed to referral uh thank you we are going to
move on to appointments we already did the appointment for the commission for people for persons with disabilities um the other appointment although there may be be some discussion regarding the charge is the Department of Public Works and Fire EMS station
building committee there was a charge in your uh folder the charge was provided by the town manager um the floor is open for um once we let's talk about any questions regarding
the charge first and then I'll ask for who wants to be considered for this uh Anna all right so um I saw that this proposed committee was being referred to by the acronym of defac which is pretty close to what I said when I saw the
charge um and that's my only terrible terrible joke of the day that's not true I'm not allowed to swear in the meetings according to our rules of procedure so you're welcome um Paul why okay I've I've got a couple pages of notes here
so I'm conf I do not understand why we would have one building committee not two to given that the terms for this committee exist for the duration of these projects and both of these are significant projects uh it seems that the way the charge is written these are advisory
committees not a deciding body I just wanted to confirm that this body is um created to provide the purpose is to provide advice on options and preferred Alternatives not to make uh not to make recommendation to the Town Council not
to do not to make any decisions um my biggest concern here is that the committee does not include any voting members who will be most impacted by the work of the committee the school
committee the school school elementary school building committee includes those impacted by the building as voting members and I'm a bit shocked that we wouldn't afford fire and DPW the same I recognize that going through msba causes those processes to be different but I would like to have to
one if if this remains as a singular body which I do not support I believe this should be two different building committees I would like to see um at least one representative not necessarily the the um Chief and the superintendent but one representative from each of the
bodies impacted with voting power on this committee I'm also concerned by the absence of our facilities manager um Sitting on This I know we've got our finance folks on it but I'm concerned concerned about the lack of the um facilities folks represented on here so
I I will say I don't like this as uh a singular committee I think if we were to be creating a capital projects building committee that would be different and the charge would be different uh and that would be longstanding and would have different terms but if this is
Project Specific I believe this should be broken out into two and I strongly believe that uh we should have voting members from the populations impacted Paul would you like to speak to those sure so that if we when we get to
a real building that's going to be on a specific site that we've selected I think you're right that we will have a specific building committee for that project but at this point these two projects are sort of in tandem working together and so my initial imp my
initial to move this project forward these two projects forward I wanted to have one committee that was really focused on the two project to get them launched and then as we moved down the road we would create um separate committees for each each of them um one may take off faster than the second one
so it wasn't I wasn't prepared to move both of them forward um but I felt like we we sorted needed to get some traction and get something going and setting up two different committees was going to be pretty onerous on our the capital
projects manager is named in the charge um and that's B parent who's been doing it for the school and for the um and for the um the library and and has it would be pivotal to this as well um so that
was my thinking on it so can I ask a clarifying question sure so first off to clarify that capital capital projects manager is listed as a non- voting member who is as there as an on as needed on an as needed basis according to the charge but then if you're talking about creating separate committees down
the road once the projects are and more of that building phase why would the term of appointment be the length of the building process 5 to seven years I'd like to see that clarified um that's good yeah okay thanks so so but just to clarify uh so Bob parent that's the role he he he's not a voting member of either
the Jones Library building committee or the elementary school building committee I understand that yeah the principles are they are yes on for the school building committee yes but um the staff on the library are not voting members of the library
committee that's correct the library direct Library director is is okay all right um Anna did you have nope I asked all my questions thank you councelor hanii so I the same ones Anna had I am
concerned with the estimated time of this being 5 to seven years for a single appointment where you never get to re-evaluate the appointments particularly for counselors technically because every two years we elect a new Council and there may be better
counselors it might not be that the counselors currently on the committee are doing a bad job but there might be better qualified people elected for the next term that appointing till the end
eliminates that ability to redecide are there better people for this position so I'm concerned that it's not our typical three years or two years for counselors or to the end of the counselor's you
know term um I am concerned that there are not voting members that as as Anna said voting members that would be working in these buildings especially
since the very last bullet point on the charge is begin schematic design for both projects in including funding design and Engineering Services and other actions that includes Drafting and drawing up the design of the building um
I was confused you clarified I thought this was given the term going through the end of each of them that could be a decade and a half with fire depending on when fire starts given the last thing we had yet it didn't say finish the project on this one so I don't think it's
clear at what point does this committee dissolve and two other committees go I think you either need to make a committee for each that in the beginning meets concurrently and jointly because and
then as the buildings go they hold their own meetings but they can meet at the same time as they're discussing locations for each and all and it would solve it would serve as the same process and purpose and already have those building committees so that halfway
through the process you're not creating a new building committee that is coming in in the middle of schematic design because right now you've got if you're creating a new one this one's going to start schematic design and some other committee is going to end it and that doesn't quite make
sense to me either um I also don't quite understand why it's chosen that the finance director is a voting member but not the chief like what why why did you choose some staff to be voting members and
other staff not to be and why did you believe two counselors were necessary on this committee so um why two counselors because of the anticipation was to have the committee split at some point so each counselor would be on and I think you're right on the term the five to
seven years is that was just taken from the library building committee so probably having a Time defined is probably a better idea for that uh to counselors was anticipation of having the building two building committees form out of this and so the counselors would be involved from the very
beginning in terms of how this got um how the buildings got started um you know I think the um we could have membership for the for the subject matter experts um for the fire chief and the um and the and the
DPW superintendent um my feel was that this committee is really to get the ball rolling and get get some the basics laid out for where it's going to be lay out this this sort of plan for where the um DPW how is how we're going to lay that
out so there's just a lot of decision making to be done in terms of the the sketching out where and the timing of where the um building projects will go um and I just thought it was more important to have a a good committee that was looking at the entire picture
versus just one focused on one one project okay Kathy I've been listening to these explanations but also I I think we made a priority but
I'm trying to remember our goals whether we ultimately did it of trying to move faster on DPW get it moving and I do think it's difficult to deal abstractly with two buildings and concretely with one with
the same group unless you propose like the first year will be focused on DPW and the second year would be focused on fire so Paul just I think logistically how much the DPW has two potentially two split sites for different parts of the
building where they're going to be housed in between you know uh in interim it's complicated and uh it was very difficult on the school building until we narrowed which site it was going to go
on but if we were dealing with two sites and pieces I I just think it would be very difficult and I I do think what Anna is Raising that a user of the building of some BO should be uh whether
they're voting or non-voting those views will be critical on each of these pieces so I'm not sure on the voting part because it looks like at least initially this isn't down to schematic design but my understanding is we have the money for schematic design we voted it a while
ago at sitting in a pot earning interest because it's in a pot somewhere um but it would be nice to get this moving faster this just feels like it's would be moving slower uh than I thought it would be with both rather than sequence
first one then the second Jennifer um I I like the idea of it being one committee because you know that they I know people there are people that will you know just um disagree with
this as even being something that should be on the table but there are some people that think that maybe they should at least explore have a conversation about whether there's a site that two buildings could share so I think that one committee could at least start that
conversation so I actually think it's a good idea to start with one committee and then look at branching off I did have a question I mean I realized in in October of this year it would just be a status report but my sense is they might just be getting started
but when would you see the committee actually being formed I would hope they'd get started by July one okay that would be great get started yeah Alicia counc walker uh thank you Lyn um
well Paul thank you for putting something together because I think this has been something that we like have generally agreed upon wanting to move forward so I do appreciate seeing something trying to move this forward I feel a little bit conflicted about the
charge here and exactly how that's going to work and benefit what the overall goal is and I think Anna pointed more specifically to some of those things that I Echo um but addition Ally wanted to add um and maybe you can clarify this for
me what like how would this committee develop options for financing the project um because it seems like there might be overlapping interests and responsibilities with other bodies and other committees and so how would these bodies or committees work together if
this is only an advisory committee to the town manager um so I feel like that feels a little bit unclear to me how some of these things will be helpful other things make a little bit more sense to me um I also feel a little bit
unsure as to whether or not this should be one committee but I think with some clarity in terms of the charge that that might also clarify that for me uh George councelor
Ryan so once upon a time not too long ago I was under the impression that we were fairly close to a place for um DPW and fire and that we had a financial plan for how to move
forward but reading this charge it seems to mean to me that that's actually not true and that this one of the major tasks of this committee right from the get-go is to re renew or review again the issue of location and come back with
an some advice to the town manager about where they think uh these two uh badly needed projects are going to go and also they're now being asked to look into the financing uh and give advice on that as well um it may turn out that that's
absolutely necessary but just from the point of view of timeliness and the fact that this has gone on for so long I do get the feeling that this is going to take another year at least um and once again we're going to be waiting to figure out where these are going to go and then we're also going to be waiting
to figure out how we're going to pay for them and when this committee is done it's simply advised anyway To You Paul and you will make the final call is that a fair description of where we're at at the moment so the intent is not to the extent the the intent of a joint committee is to expedite movement on it
to finalize site selection um the uh incoming fire chief did not like the location that the outgoing fire chief had approved so and he and he has documented some information and wants to have that conversation um a broader
conversation so you know I don't think we put a we don't recommend a fire station in a place that the fire chief does not recommend um so that has turned the original proposal around a little bit um and but I think you know the new
Chief has vested interest in choosing the site that he thinks works best for his for his team um that means we don't have a site for fire um that um we need and it does set us back a little bit because we were the goal from the
council previously was get some sites and get started um the idea of having a a mult a two location or multilocation uh for the DPW is still active with the idea being that we would we would initiate the project at ruon with
getting the temporary buildings put up up there so we can get some coverage for some of our buildings and then we can start working on the um DPW site so that would take the that's the building that's most in need and would be the um uh the higher priority it would give us
a little bit more time I don't think we're really prepared for a building Comm committee for the fire station till we get an actual site so once we get a site that then this build this committee or we can create a new build committee that would start working directly on that um we do have a designer uh that
we've had previously that had done some of this this work for the DPW that we would just maintain because they've already done the work on it um we have some uh real expertise in the town both with our superintendent but with spe specifically with our capital projects
coordinator Bob parent who has done this type of work before and knows the world very well um and I I understand what people are saying about in terms of um uh membership whether they should have a vote or not I you know they didn't
really care honestly they said it's it's not um um I mean Bob has as much influence on the building projects for the other projects as as anything else um but we would clearly have to get an
OPM in early um so I think the the the goal of this is just to get something going and getting some decisions made and sort of prioritizing the decisions that we that we have to make the financing piece is really um to we still
have the model that we're following and so the the model that we have means that we can't really start the fire until we've got the cash in hand but you know we'll have that I mean we're projected to have that next few years so you know well not just a few years but we need we
can get started on the fire um um station design as well Pam mnie I guess the question is is coming up um with all the feedback that's been
received um are we suggesting that this uh charge perhaps go back with the town manager and and get yes get worked on a little bit more yeah good okay okay um let's see that was the biggest question um in terms of non- voting
members um I think it would be smart to have fire chief or design and superintendent of Public Works or design I mean it does not have to be those two people um clearly they would be a resource uh in
similarly having the assistant Town manager and the finance director as voting members um they are incredible resources do they need to actually be you know sitting at the table
um and voting on these I it's just a a question okay Kathy yes Paul did you want to comment okay Kathy yeah I I just want to address a question Jennifer's raised a couple
times Lynn and way back when first term we were told that the land that DPW was sitting on does not have enough space to co- housee fire and DPW that we said there's not space there
so leaving open her maybe there is could we at least get a yes no on that because one of the things I had remember hearing and I have notes on it is DPW already is covering probably more space of the lot
than they technically can given how near it is to the the back curb um so even if we move the vehicles off it's not clear to me that enough but it would be nice to get that answered so I'm not asking you to answer it to
but if we know that can't happen in that place then it's that wouldn't be a reason to keep the Committees together if it can't happen in that place and Lynn you were the person that originally had said that and but that was when we were talking
about all of DPW in one place this is starting to get into the debate of that the committee will be getting into so and so I just you know so but if that door is closed i' just like to know it and I don't need to know it tonight okay thank you George so for sending this
back to Paul to have him refine it yes can we maybe we have been and I've missed it can we be explicit about what we are looking for I for one do not have a problem with the voting members and the non- voting members um are we asking him
to rethink that um I understand the length of charge needs to be adjusted there's an issue of what happens once one of these committees is been informed and broken off um what Paul has said that one of the counselors would go with that so there's may be some issues of process um my concern is this we need to
I pretty sure most of you agree we need to move this forward as fast as possible but we do also have some things we need to have him resolve um I guess the question is much to Paul as to this body um is he clear on what he's being asked
to refine here are there things that I'm missing that should be added to the list because I really really am hoping that when this comes back in two weeks that we can vote on it and we can get started um I actually ready to do it right now but I can see that's not going to happen
right I think you've captured it Paul do you have any more questions no I mean there's no the council doesn't vote on this charge what I need are councelors who want to serve and but I did I do value the com the comments that you've made and I think a lot of really good ones that I will refine the charge for
sure um but I do think sometimes it takes the council some time to select us member so I'd like that you know have you all thinking about it not for tonight necessarily Pam did you have your hand up yeah I had I had a followup um one of the other comments that I forgot to make at the time was the the
time frame was suggested that perhaps it should be shorter and that makes a lot of sense because if we said um estimated to be three years that means that that puts a little more pressure on it at that point at whatever point we split
off into two groups um or two two projects rather than five to seven okay thank you Alicia you have your hand up again um yeah I agree with everything that's been said but I also do hope that there can be some
consideration given to the comp to the composition um specifically whether or not certain members need to be voting versus non-voting and the inclusion of some other uh members that were mentioned earlier just because again keeping in mind that it's an advisory
body like they votes aren't necessarily binding anyhow um and so I think that that might be important to consider when we're deciding who are the voting members because some of the people already have decision decision-making Authority outside of this
vote thank you councelor haniki um just for clarification once Paul adopts this I believe it's Paul that's going to be adopting this our manager not the council um we need an agenda item if we
as a body want to vote them special Municipal Employees although given this composition the only ones that would refer to is the residents the three residents no one else um but we do need one and so maybe the next it it sounds like we voted the status for the
commission on persons with disabilities about a year before that charge was adopted so maybe we can vote anme status on this at the next or something just get it done sounds like a plan okay are there any other
comments or questions Pam you still have your hand up okay so Lynn I'm sorry so next time potentially status could be voted next time potentially we as a council could elect two members yes but ultimately
it's Paul's will present us with his chart that's correct thank you okay um all right we are now to committee and liaison reports
um the budget coordinating group uh did meet this past Wednesday um we had a long agenda we got through about two parts of the agenda uh the focus of the committee mostly was I'm sorry Anna you have your hand
up it's a question about BCG so please finish okay uh the focus of the committee uh this last time one was on looking at free cash and how we and learning about free cash and the um
Finance director gave a very nice and thorough presentation on that um we also discussed the fact that the insurance rate has now gone down to 14 something and we also discussed that the um Town
manager has now brought the budget back up to point uh to 4% um there was discussion as to whether or not the last half perc would be across the board um based on the financial
guidelines um the plan right now is that the next fi uh BCG meeting would be at the beginning of April uh probably on a Wednesday at noon like we have done it before uh are there other comments Anna
given the deadline of April 1st for the school committees I'm I'd love to see BCG meet again prior to I think BCG can't wait this long to continue to meet I think that we need to be meeting more regularly given how
extensive the conversation was and um given what BCG is the role that BCG is supposed to take in coordinating budget guidelines uh I'd like to see us starting to even think about next year
um far earlier than we have so I I'm concerned with the gap between BCG meetings being as long as it is um my other request is for the council so I will wait with that one the just to as an aside the
school while the school committees will be voting their budgets they don't provide them to us until April 1st I I understand that but the conversation that's going into them continuing their
development of their budgets and given that things are continuing to be discussed at the council I feel that waiting until the beginning of April for to convene that committee again is too long of a gap okay Andy there was one
additional thing uh that BCG heard for the first time and that is that the Town manager reported to us that for the first time ever um in his experience and I think it's bigger than that that uh
the gap between the uh 4% and the amount that would be needed to level fund Town Services is half a million dollars and
uh that is a uh sobering fact because uh it would mean that if uh even under the best of circumstances the substantial Cuts here need to be made somehow and U I'm not going to speculate
on what they might be um that's a discussion that is to follow but um it it is worth noting that additional information okay any other questions or
comments um CRC pamy thank you the CRC met on February 27 focused entirely on solar bylaw um we will talk this this coming Thursday about uh the bulletin board
announcements for vacancies for zba and planning board positions so we'll get the bulletin board uh up and running so that we can encourage people to start putting in their citizen activity forms for it Community activity
form okay are there any questions for CRC uh Elementary School building committee Kathy we meet this Friday we haven't the last time we met was a while ago it'll be an update on construction
okay finance committee Kathy uh finance committee met on March 4th and in our packet is the second quarter financial report for the town and we received the same news that BCG received the day after that the town has now found a way
to go to 4% we had a discussion of where the Ora money sits if you look at the second quarter what you'll see is the ARA money was applied to the health insurance line and so we will have a big Surplus on that line because of the way
the funding will work and we won't see that till the end of the year and the close of the year so there was a nice walkth through on on that piece and the rest of it is trying to figure out a schedule for um reviewing the budget when it comes to
us okay um go Anna so go was the uh unlucky victim of the website snafu the other day which deleted our agenda therefore we did not meet the posting deadline and
cannot meet on tomorrow so we are currently uh I have an email drafted where I will poll committee members and guests to see if they are able to meet the following Tuesday so next week a week from tomorrow um committee members
please email me back as soon as you can I um I'm will send the email right after this um go will be first uh addressing the University Drive overlay uh for clarity consistency and actionability from
CRC um as we have a strict and looming deadline for that we also have three proclamations and resolutions uh on the agenda as well as discussion fulfilling the vacancies on um finance committee and the charter
review okay any questions on go uh jcpc Kathy we're meeting every Wednesday at 4 o'clock we reviewed uh actually I'm going to blank out on Bob can probably help me we we we
went through the police department and one other oh facilities last week and we will have fire department and a cluster of others this week schools will be the following week and
at that point we will have gone through all the projects on the list so people if anyone is interested there is a a listing of every project that's on the wrist for FY 26 and um it's
in last week's packet and it'll be in again in this week as it gets revised thank you any questions Jennifer um yes so I uh I guess I was reading about um I
guess picking up on Anna's comments um speaking as a resident before the finance committee when you had um expressed I don't know if it's concern that when we um took
$500,000 from the sidewalks and Roads kind of set aside hoping we would get a request from the school commit from the schools is but that hadn't come in we hadn't gotten a request for that $500 that we didn't allocate to roads
and sidewalks is that something that the school committee or the superintendent could make a request of jcpc for that 500,000 it would go through jcpc Cathy the the school
committee it's wide open for them to make Capital request ests so there is a request on the list for the sixth grade move to the middle school but that is also a piece of this orpa money that was set aside to come back that was still on
that list so we've got a duplicate count but there is not there is no request for Capital from the regional region I mean and that and there's a reason for that it's got to go through the regional process first and the other towns have to agree on it so we don't actually ever
review a regional request we do have pieces of other school we have some equipment but they have to propose a project for the town to be looking at so that 500,000 it's it's it's not that there's
another 500,000 we actually the vote on banks took down our free cash amount cut it in half so what was an extra amount sitting there has been spent and we took the orpa money and we set it aside and
we'll have that at the beginning and Paul you can help me you know at the close of this fiscal year we will see that money but right now it's on a line item there was an eligible line item so there not like there's a piece of money sitting somewhere but
jcpc has a large amount of capital money to spend and we have no proposal so you can't spend it on something that it has not been proposed oh Paul did you want to comment please so so there may be we did have a
conversation on Friday with the superintendent and finance director and they may have some things that they would like to get started this fiscal year um that they would bring to the council um as a an appropriation request and if they want to if they you know if
they wanted to do that they could certainly ask the council's funding for that and that would come to jcpc I think they should be reviewing everything with j PC I'm not I'm not sure if they're prepared at this moment in time you know okay thank you and
schools schools isn't on till two weeks from now Paul you know but so right now there is a list for some potentials for Crocker but they're not for FY 26 therefore FY 27 28 and 29 so we we don't
we have some vehicles but we don't have other pieces right so if I can so I think their priority this year is on Transportation is issues they don't have capacity if you give them money they can't spend it basically I think that's sort of what their the concern is because of the turnover in their
facilities Department um so I think that that's um but they can explain that to you I know Melissa and Shannon were on the phone for extensive period of time today to talk through what their needs are and and I should just say speaking as one member there are some other
projects proposed for this year that potentially don't need to happen or don't need to happen at the same level that'll be a discussion we have as a committee so there may be additional room and schools have proposed an electric School Buffs and some other vehicles so when I said there just
hasn't been a building related but there are some vehicles on and those aren't small those vehicles in terms of dollars right and those are under capital okay Anna you have a question I'm realizing I jumped the gun
and forgot to lower my hands I'm uh I'll wait till counselor comments and questions okay thank you sorry um let's see I think we're Jones Library building committee Pam there has been no building committee meeting maybe Paul
could give us an update on chapter 106 sure so the the 106 uh process is now in the hands of the mass historical commission there is a draft agreement um for all the 26 Consulting parties to review um and I think the the right now
it rests with the historic Mass historical commission and I know they have had some staff turnover as well so we just don't have any we have no idea um when that will come back TSL so TSO had a meeting last Thursday
March 6 and uh we were unable to uh produce a written report some have to do the um oral report instead um it was a very interesting
meeting I should say because uh well we first started off with the the um something we already voted on tonight Commission on disabilities um and uh we unanimously for to zero with one member absent at
that time voted to recommend the action that was Tak taken um by the council earlier this evening and pointed out the um provision in the uh Charter that
requires that uh the um if somebody's being appointed to a committee and they're not a resident that the council needs to vote on that also and that was incorporated in the motion that you voted on this evening um the other two
things that we talked about at length um because that was not a lengthy discussion uh was the Southeast Street um discussion and uh basically I think that
what uh we were focusing on was a little bit of process and um as to how to go about um Con making a uh getting a
decision framed for presentation back to the full Council regarding options and um what information was needed um the other thing that came up during the discussion um is really it goes back to
another committee that's already reported and that is U that uh we uh uh found out that the uh request to the jcpc from
DPW for the project was in two pieces um for the current for the year that they're working on FY 26 um I believe it's $500,000 for design and then in the year
following $6 million for construction and we recognized that that was a significant sum of money we did not know um what the basis of the calculation was um we did not have staff
support to um explore that further there was discussion as to um whether uh given the fact that the school is going to be open before the work is done whether it
was um possible to consider waiting until um after the school is open to see if the problem is really developed to the extent that it has this is a discussion that is
ongoing um I'm just summarizing where we were we have not completed that discussion and I'm going to come back to that in a moment with dates the other thing that uh was very um informative
for us is as I reported the prior report we had um two people from Northampton who were involved with their transportation and parking commission to help us understand how theirs functions
and compare it to what was proposed for U amoris and has been had been referred to TSO uh the two people who were there were Council president Alex Jarrett um
Alex uh represents Florence he's a uh District or Ward representative is it's termed in uh Northampton and um he is a member of the
commission they have two uh counselors by the way it's structured in their committee charg that are members of the uh commission which is different from what has was proposed to us and has been the subject of some
discussion within TSO regarding the pros and cons of having a uh councilor members so it was worth having Alex present from that perspective and then
the other person who joined was their director of the Department of Public Works who has the equivalent role that our superintendent of Public Works in Amis has her name is Donna
Balia and U she chairs the transportation and parking commission I cannot at this point uh without u i it just wouldn't be fair to try and even summarize the discussion though I do
note that um it is available because I'm sure by now it's been posted on the the uh Town Youtube channel for anybody who's interested in um watching that presentation if they've been interested
in the subject of transportation and parking commission and um so where we are is that uh on March uh 20 which is our next meeting we are going to actually have a discussion about what we
heard from Alex and Don at the uh meeting uh that was last week and um then um see if we can reach some basic conclusions about where we are uh in our
recommendation and then refer the matter to the U Transportation advisory committee that's very interested in the subject they are meeting the evening after our morning meeting and um Bob
hegner is a member of both groups and U so that he's going to be the bridge that um makes sure that there's proper information uh presented is my I think
what our understanding is and um then uh we if they have any comments we're hoping that we can then get back on April by April 3D and start working on
actually um a proposed uh revisions to what was presented to us that would reflect all of this discussion and get it back to all of you um so we do think that U I think that the consensus is the
the idea of a commission is a good idea that it really would be an improvement in our process um and so we want to keep it moving and uh that's what the basic plan is um other things that we want to do between
in the April March 20 April 3rd and April 17 meetings is uh here from uh part our Department of Public Works regarding their U process for making
decisions about roads and uh sidewalks and construction and Order and uh it's it follows a presentation that was made several years ago U of A similar nature to a very different TSO it's just U not
the same members so uh we kind of have to go back a little bit and pick up on that and uh those are the uh in in course what was referred tonight so we have a lot of work ahead of us um but
that I wanted to report on the last meeting and give you a sense of where some of the things that we are working on now are there any questions I just want to clarify Bob is not a member of TAC he is liaison to Tac no I'm sorry I
misstated it he's member of uh um he's member of JC PC oh JC PC thank you I it's actually uh I was trying to figure this sound yeah Council Ryan is uh the the on to attack so uh you will
be reporting to attack that night and Bob will be reporting to jcpc and uh I think that Kathy could confirm the or Bob can confirm the date that they will be meeting with uh DPW to
hear their presentations but it's Yet to Come okay are there any questions Le on reports any uh we approved the minutes Paul Town manager report highights so I just want
on the um the appointment for the commission for persons with disabilities someone mentioned to me that this had been in the works for over a decade like uh with I think two managers before me that they had been advocating for this so just congrats to U Myra Ross and the
whole team for their persistence and I think it will be a you know I think it's really set up nicely so it's good um two big events coming up on on Saturday April 5th is the big Global Village um cere ex um exhibition um
celebration uh that the Dei department has been organizing and then the next day is our rubbish Roundup which is it's our it's our annual cleanup um but there's a new British person at the at the uh bid who had suggested rubbish
Roundup so we went with that and uh Angela and um Sam are working really hard and hoping that you all want to participate as as team captains at the some of the various locations so that that's usually a really popular event quite honestly um as Anna said our
website has been on what's it called denial of service uh attack and it's been attacked again today and we found that the town of Lexington was also um under attack we don't know why uh but it's being picked up by different um there's
different um surveillance groups out there from uh the federal government who alerted us that they found something on the dark web saying that we just took down Amor's Mass um so um we are being patient to I mean being vigilant on it
but sometimes there's when it's getting pounded with what a denial services that you get so many requests that website can't respond it just sort of freezes up on people so once it processes all those requests or the people get tired of sending them so that's something that our it department has been working with
um and then the last thing was just to report on the events from the Saturday and again that was a really a a major team effort it Department was DPW helped Crest Department that dispatchers were spectacular and of course fire and
police and um so with that that we had um and working very closely with our UMass partners of course and we had a number of other agencies who who had sent both uh police officers and ambulances to support us and this one
was was a kind of a short um time but very intense from about like 8 till about 1:00 we shut down the emergency Operation Center around 2:30 um and there were 29 arrests eight summonses
and the majority were alcohol related or for disorderly contact cond the fire department reported 25 medical transports by ambulance between 9:30 and 2 with 14 being related to alcohol consumption and of the medical 25
medical transports 17 were from uh uh the townhouse area on Meadow Street the others were there there were just regular calls for Ambulance Service as well um we were pretty well prepared but we still the intent the number of calls all within a very short period of time
did overwhelm us where we had to bring even more ambulances in um to help to help address all the uh um issues that we're finding so this is a situation that we watch every that we learn from every year it CH it always takes a different shape um the weather
was fairly nice this year that's always a big determination determinant on what happens um and we will all be doing you know a the town will be doing its debrief and then there's a larger debrief with the university um Coy Dickinson hospital was well prepared and
they didn't they um had a wing set up for people coming from uh this event mostly alcohol related and um and so that they see they felt that that worked pretty well for them and they had additional staff on on duty for that so
um all in all a big event but um we survived it and no noise complains from our communities okay councelor haniki with regard to the DNS attack and the
fact that it affected published at least one I don't know whether it couldn't be published or hna referred to it as being removed um we just couldn't get onto the website to make it um is there alternative ways of posting
these meetings like we used to attached to the door on Town Hall in enough time so that we can still hold the meeting and then get it onto the online one um if this were to happen in the future
because that's a disruption that is potentially going to require holding another public hearing I think we can so what happened with the go agenda as would you please speak as I was trying to submit the go
agenda the website wasn't responding and I had to try a couple times get it posted and it seems that it just didn't work I didn't check that it was finally posted I had to do the same thing with the council meeting when I posted it I had to put it in two or three times because the website just wasn't responding so it wasn't that it was
removed it just didn't it didn't save it as I was trying to post it um I don't think we see a concern about this happening again and again but to your question the posting location that's on file with the secretary of the
Commonwealth's office is the town website there's not an alternative location um but if this continues to be a concern it's something that we should think about having an alternative location and what the Attorney General's office recommends um as an alternative location in the event that something
like this does have on our website goes down is thank you since we have another website called whatever I can't remember um the other one we created about two years ago can we use
site no the we have to let the there's a listing of where Public Notices are it are posted ours is the town website the school committees is their board doc site it's very specific so we couldn't just do something else in a different because people know to look there for
our meeting notices thank you are there other questions of the Town manager Jennifer I just wanted to ask very briefly if there was any update um with the way waste taller bylaw not bylaw with the RFP I'm
sorry uh so we met with a consultant um the superintendent Public Works and I did um and um that was about two weeks maybe 10 days ago uh we could go Friday I guess um and we haven't really
reconnected based on since then with the super with the superintendent Public Works I meet with him tomorrow morning we'll see does that mean that that the RFP do you have a consultant for the waste huler we have a consultant who's willing to help us yes that was the issue we were having is finding someone who could
do it okay so all right thank you are there any other questions of the Town manager then um just do have a few notes earlier this evening I received a packet uh that came
from kanasaki it was three copies and translations of um their visit and the students reports um Andy's got one here I'm keeping one that I will make sure goes to the schools uh but if you have
it and so forth please make sure we get it back so that we can give the schools as many copies as possible each of the students reports are in there as well as a letter from the superintendent and they're all translated as well and it's
a actually published book of pictures Etc um on future agenda items um we start our meeting on the uh March 24th at 6:30 we have a poll hearing we have
three PL proclamations there's been a request for a library update and the action item will be the first reading of the University Drive overlay based on tonight it is possible we have um the
charge come back for DPW Fire EMS um and there may be other things as well are there other requests for agenda items Anna I would like to request the council president Place discussion and
vote to revise the fiscal year 2026 budget guidelines at our next meeting and I'm happy to submit a uh memo outlining a proposal to increase the percentage is allocated to the schools um I will have a memo to the Council on
that topic I'd also urge the council president to consider convening a work session alongside the elementary and Regional School committees to discuss long range uh funding plans for the different groups um those are my two
requests for future agenda items um Bob um I wanted to say uh I don't have a question I just have a comment uh that we need to move forward on the DPW on the fire station we can't delay this no matter
what problems there are in the charter for the or in the charge for the committee we need to move forward I I've been on the finance committee for far too long and this was an issue when I first joined the committee and we haven't gotten either station even
designed yet so we need to move forward on these we can't just keep kicking the can down the road every time we do that it just gets more and more complicated and more and more expensive so I I just urge this committee to really to this Council to to to try
to let's let's get a decision made and let's move forward thank you for sharing my frustration which goes back to 2006 Kathy um I have actually a question from Anna for Anna if we want to
reconsider the guidelines in terms of where thinking about where money might come from would you want to have a discussion at the finance committee meeting on March 18th or do you want to wait to have a discussion just at the council
meeting and I'm saying this because right now we we have CPAC referred to us but we we we could have a discussion on it so I'm not sure what you're thinking of other than a bigger percentage you know in terms of I have some ideas of where the money could come from but we
have to we have to provide in guidelines a way of financing it yeah so I just want to clarify Kathy what you're suggesting is that rather than the discussion regarding the guidelines start with the counil that it go back it
starts with the finance committee who originally drafted the guidelines not necessarily I believe what Kathy was asking was if she should Place something on the finance committee agenda she was not talking about changing anything about this coming to the council okay
yeah I was I was just saying having having a first discussion with some of the ideas so the could be hammered out a bit more so at the point it gets to the council you you've got input on it so I you know so uh just staring at the
budget and staring um the question we had from public today long range I don't think we have any long range solution to this given what the state is doing in terms of State funds um and proper just in two and a half we can only go up so much we we've got a long-term problem do
we have at least a bridge a bridge way of doing something in FY 26 so we need to be careful not to start into into the debate but just get the issue I'm not at all I'm just saying that there is space on the finance commit if you wanted to
start a discussion about this on the 18th and I would just need to know can I respond please I think it would be helpful if finance committee could start the discussion considering that we as a council I believe do not meet again until the 24th um and so if the council
if the finance committee wanted to begin a discussion I think that would be helpful in terms of if there are is information that may need to be brought to the council the finance committee could request that uh just to start of kind of start the conversation that
would be fine what I don't want to have happen is for this to be considered a referral to finance I still would like the council to discuss and I don't that's not what you were suggesting but I still would like the council to discuss it on the 24th so that's fine and it's just I think you
should plan on coming to happy to be there always um I need to go back to your other uh question um and it's a work session with the regional and the elementary schools
regarding long-term funding that was a rough thought I think that it could be that all of the bodies need to come together it could I'm I what seems clear to me is that BC CG is not enough um and that we as a council
do not have a grasp on where the long-term plans for funds exist what those look like um and it might be that they don't exist it might be that they do and we just don't know but I think I'm I'm really trying to take a lesson from some of the
sessions that or one of the sessions that some of us were at during MMA where it talked about good [Music] um good Community budget decisionmaking and how these bodies need to come
together Beyond just a representative group like BCG which should still exist um and we don't come together with those groups to talk about our budgets and talk about long term and we all need to be on the same team here um and I think
that having one of those meetings um I I'm not necessarily going to recommend exactly when that occur but I do think that these bodies to be coming together to talk about these long-term challenges that we're all facing um and how we are
each uniquely impacted by unique challenges that sounds like word salad but what I mean is like the the challenges that are putting the town in a deficit are different and the vend diagram overlaps with the challenges putting the schools in a deficit and so
I think we need to come together to really talk through what those issues are um and and start to be thinking a bit more long term in terms of our our strategy here yeah I'll stop there Paul did you have any
comment okay um Andy yeah uh the MMA session that you referred to the description that was made was really a description of our budget coordinating group it was not it
was not um having all of the boards and committees get together as Committees of the whole um and uh I I'm pretty confident and how I what I heard at that session uh but I
think that you know the question really is whether it's a good idea to get all of the bodies together at one point U as opposed to what was said at the um in in that particular Community the uh
um other thing that we need to recognize is that U yes we do have a big problem we do need to talk about it we do need to try and problem solve it as we can but we cannot pretend that this is just an Amorous problem you only have to pick
up the Gazette and look at the number of Hampshire County communities that are dealing with the same issue and it is really being dealt with Statewide it's not you know know it's a little bit um seems right now more pronounced in
Western Massachusetts but that may be because of who we're hearing from my sense from the MMA fiscal policy committee is is that there is a systemic issue that's much greater and I think that we've talked about some of those
things U same issues within um our local discussions about charter school funding and and Chapter 70 distribution U but uh you know given what um PA reported about the
$500,000 deficit um for just um continuing level services for the town which is not a way that we've looked at budgets ever before for the town has not dealt with level Services budget that has been a school
approach to um dealing with budget but it's never been a town budget it is going to be a difficult discussion Anna Andy I believe it was both and I am I'm happy to pull up the slide deck and reach out to the folks from those other
communities um they talk about the um we're talking about Mansfield they bring the um all three bodies talk about cash reserves and stabilization they don't say and then they have a tri board which is similar to our
um uh sorry this is the their is not similar to rbcg it is an additional layer of communication the tri board meeting consists of all members of the following school committee their select word and their finance committee so it is all members it is not a
representative um and we yes we are absolutely in a state in crisis and I'm not trying to get into this topic but we can't just stand here and ring our hands because we have a state funding crisis we need to do what we can do and
respectfully yes the town is facing a deficit and the schools to in order to keep level services and the schools are facing a bigger one this is not a matter of oh all of a sudden the the municipal Services end of things beyond the schools because the schools are a
municipal service in many ways in all ways um we can't just say that because we're F sorry I'm going to try not to start debating this issue but I would very much like to see this on an agenda as soon as possible because I think that there's a lot to discuss here and a lot of it comes down to how we plan to do
governance in this town councelor hanii something that has been variously this is a potential future agenda item but I don't know where on the agenda it would go or how quickly um BCG and some school committee members
it has come up at but not really as a full-throated discussion as a what if and I think it's time for the council to have that what if and should we seriously consider it which is a prop two and a half
override um instead of at BCG can we it might be more appropriate under a discussion item not an actual item at this point of what would it look like how much would it be how long would it last so
that the conversations and the requests and the debates we're hearing of we don't want to go through this every year so how much would it have to be to not go through it this issue for the next decade say where there's enough within
the levy limit to deal with all the inflationary pressures I think we need a conversation about what that might look like extensive wise that's not to say we're we would say yes or no but but
what what would we have to be asking of the and should we be pursuing that on a more serious level and have that as a council discussion yes have it as a c discussion I thank you are there
any other questions or comments uh let me just mention under counselor comments that three of us did go to the mass Municipal legislative update Andy George and myself uh we went out to Dalton um and uh it was very interesting
um and amazing misperceptions about amorist including that somehow or another we get a huge amount of pilot money because of you Mass we set them straight on that I know I mean it was just a ounding to watch somebody suggest that we had
that I anyway uh it was uh you good they're doing the other ones this weekend and we will get slides and we'll share that with you at some point the other thing I'm just going to apologize tomorrow morning you will or tonight or tomorrow
morning you will get an email uh we do have a meeting with um uh the senator and uh Mindy on Thursday so I'll want any topics I'm sorry I didn't get it out early um okay are there any other counselor
comments councelor hanii a topic school funding State advocacy for school funding and Rural Aid and all of that um and potentially a conversation for the residents in our
town with our Senator and representatives regarding state school funding is that so that they're not hearing just from us counselors that they actually sit down with our residents might be an open meeting might be a public forum I don't know but
please bring up that topic um my counselor comment is I just wanted to Second what Andy said about MMA policy committees and that we are not the only town going through school budget issues
um my policy committee met for the first time since it was Recon instituted last week and we all introduced ourselves and there aren't many western Mass people on that committee but nearly everyone which means eastern Mass
Northeastern Southeastern the cape I was shocked at how many people on that committee talked about their towns going through operating overrides this year um because of the issues and
needing more funding and also nearly every one said school funding is the issue um and and it it comes into the town too but um Gateway cities rural cities hold harmless communities it didn't matter where you were from school funding was an issue and and a large a
higher percentage than I would have thought are seeking overrides this year y Pat thank you uh different issue accounts and please please I have my hand on it
and my mouth is here but I I we stood and recognize the strength and resiliency of the Tibetan people who have suffered greatly at the hands of um China as an individual and I hope
someday as a council and a community we can also stand up and recognize the strength and resilience Palestinians in the West Bank who have suffered land annexation um and destruction of their
homes and schools I hope that we can stand up and recognize the strength and resilience of the uian people in Gaza who are being systematically and continually bombarded and uh in an
attempt to destroy them um we need to look at this issue and stop having favorites but look at what's happening in the world are there any other comments I'm going to make a motion to
adjourn and seek a second and the vote I'm going to start with Pam Rooney yes Council Ryan I Kathy Shane yes Andy Steinberg I Jennifer toab Yes councelor
Walker yes paty Angeles I honor Devin gothier I councelor Lyn Grim I councelor hanik I Bob hegner I and councelor Lord I hi thank you it's unanimous we're
adjourned it's 10:25