Great. Thank you. Welcome everyone to our December 11th um Community Preservation Act committee held by Zoom. Uh we're starting at 5:30 tonight to host a public hearing as we
do each year. So, I'd like to call this meeting to order and start with a roll call um just to be sure that each committee member can hear and be heard. So, if you just um
say yay nay here uh when I call your name that would be great just so we could make sure we can hear you. Um Tim >> here. >> Ellen >> here. >> Bob >> here. Robin
>> here. >> Jason >> here. >> Great. Thank you. And we need um someone to agree to take minutes. Um I know Ellen took great minutes last
week. We have them in hand and they will go out in next week's packet. So we'll be soon to be caught up. Thank you very much, Ellen. If anyone um is willing to jump in I before we have to
Okay. Do I have to uh request somebody? Let's see who hasn't done minutes on this call. I think it's maybe Tim and Jason. >> I'll um are we doing minutes for the public
comment? Do we have to record each person's comment or are we only doing minutes for the meeting starting at 6? >> I don't think you have to record every comment. Um my understanding is that summary of discussion and all votes have
to be in the minutes. Um you could do maybe a summary of how many people Dave, did you have a different take on that? Yeah, if I could, Katy, I think for the public hearing, it's really just um you know, how many people commented um and
generally you don't have to take down every comment, but it was it'd be more for the minutes of the regular meeting starting after the public hearing is over. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. just um that we had a public hearing at the beginning and that maybe
if you if you could say how many people spoke that would be great. It >> it might be good to total if there are 12 people in favor of X or six people concerned about Y, you know, that might be good. >> There's a theme. Yeah.
>> And it is recorded, so I can send you a link tomorrow of the recording. >> Yeah, thank you. That does seem to be the easiest way to do it so you can be listening at the same time. Okay, great. So, I um before we open the
public hearing, I just wanted to make a quick provide a quick overview of how we're approaching this. I know we have uh a few attendees already in um already here, which is terrific. Um,
this public hearing is for input. Um, we have this each year. Um, and it often occurs after all the presentations are concluded. Um, but due to scheduling needs and holidays, etc., we're doing it
now. And we will have three presentations this evening during the regular portion of our meeting. And next Thursday, the 18th, we'll have four final presentations. So, if anyone is listening to this recording or comes in
later and um misses the public hearing portion tonight, we do offer public comment at the beginning um of the meeting next week as well as we will offer the public comment on or January 15th at the beginning of that
meeting. and that will be the last opportunity before we go into deliberations for any public comment. Um, so I'd like to call this public hearing to order now. Um, again, this is a public hearing for
input on the proposals that are here before the CPA this cycle. A note to all of us on the committee that our role is to um as you all know is to listen um to the public comments.
It's not a dialogue. We don't do sort of questions and answers and um but you can if you need a point of clarification, you can ask um to make a point of clarification. But really the idea here
is to listen to what the public um has to say about these proposals. And I also wanted to make the um to circle back on the question that had been before us from I think a couple of emails from the
public as well as a member of the committee asking about sort of deciding about uh funding and this was a particular question about the one the Jones library request um the historic preservation piece which we'll hear next
week um that we're deciding on the merits of each proposal. And again, as I said last week, we're making recommendations and town council decides if they're going to take our recommendations, if they're going to
reduce them or reject them. And there's a whole process uh by which we make a presentation or I will be making on behalf of all of us be making a presentation to town council of our recommendations. Um and there's opportunity for questions
there. So that is you know we have to make the difficult recommendations with limited dollars and some amazing um proposals this year that's for you know three or four times the amount of funding that we have. So then it's up to
the town council to debate the merits um and make that decision. And they have the ability to decide by vote or discussion or debate if they're going to um
move forward on something that they have voted on in the past or change that vote. That has nothing to do with us. So we're just simply deciding on the merits of each proposal and making our recommendations. the very difficult decision about that. Um, and so I think that's
that's sort of what I had promised to come back to you after having um a a brief discussion with Dave, but that that was my take on it from the um from the beginning. So, and just to know that all of the requests before us have met the CPA
eligibility. So, um the town does that for us in advance and ensures that we're um but I also have taken a look at them all to make sure. So, we do want to make sure that everyone uh
who has joined us for the public hearing has a chance to speak. Um so, I want to make sure that we It looks like we have about six folks now. Um I would like to
um put in place kind of a a a method by which we can ensure that everyone has a chance to speak um and for equal amount of time. So it's been sort of a practice to allow up to three minutes for each speaker and that will if others join us
during the course of uh the next 20 minutes half hour or so we'll have a chance to include those folks as well. So, I think we're going to provide equal minutes up to three minutes and and Leah
um Carver from the our liaison, our awesome liaison from the town is um offered to keep do some timing with me to make sure that we both um can keep on track. And so, we're going to give folks a minute warning. You know, after two minutes is up, we'll give you a minute
warning so you can wrap up and you don't have to um be cut off at the end. You can just wrap your comments. because nobody likes to be cut off and we don't like to cut anyone off. So, we want to make sure you have warning about um
the amount of time that's left. So, the only other um part of you know only other sort of guideline is that we ask that you state your name and where you live before you make your comments.
Um I will uh call on uh folks at in the order in which you hold up your hand. So if you could use the zoom tool, those who are in attendance and wish to speak, if you could use the zoom tool to raise
your hand, then we'll take them in the order in which they show up for us. Um is are there any questions from the committee? Before we start, does that clear?
Three minutes for each speaker. State your name and where you live. We're not in dialogue. We're here listening and um getting a chance to understand sort of where the public stands on these proposals.
Okay. So, um Leah, I don't I can see who's in the room, but I can't see whether or not hands are raised. Is that something that you >> I don't see any hand raised. >> Okay. >> Um I know a few people are actual presenters, so I'm not sure.
>> Yep. >> Okay. It looks like I I I can see. So it does look like >> Oh, I have one now. >> Yep. Maria's first. So the floor is now the floor is now open for public comment. And I'll recognize Maria Copiki. >> Okay.
>> Hi, Maria Copiki, South Ammerst. Um, I'm hoping very much that uh you will accept written comments uh as well because my concerns aren't really going to be amendable to a
threeminut public comment. Um, it is it's also kind of odd to be doing this before the the presentations are made. Um, but if we're doing this just to go on record of u public sentiment, I strongly
strongly oppose the CPA committee authorizing any further funds for the Jones Library project. Um, I would be very interested in seeing the analysis done by the town and um and by the
chair. you you referred to all projects having been vetted for eligibility, but I I think that there are um really grave concerns about the eligibility especially for that uh for that not especially for that project.
Um, so I would be interested in seeing that and if I know that you're not going to do a back and forth, but if you can um assure us uh and in instruct us on how to communicate in writing uh to all
the members of the committee um before you deliberate, that would be very helpful. But um yes, I uh again strongly oppose any further CPA funds for the Jones project. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Maria. I appreciate that. And um that question about accepting comments I think is a is one we can answer. Um which is that we do in we encourage folks to let us know and people have
been sending emails to the town that you could send them. Leah, should it come directly to you? >> Either way. Um but there the link for the act on the CPA page has the link that goes to all the members and either way it comes to me and then I've been dispersing them. >> Right.
>> Right. Okay. So there is a link on the CPA page for those of you in attendance and listening to this recording. Um we encourage you to submit comments um and your views on proposals that way. they
do um get passed along to the full committee in a timely fashion. And if they're if they arrive before deliberation before um the packet goes out for the final for the when we we start deliberations on January 15th and the packet is prepared and goes out
usually the Monday before Monday or Tuesday before. So it needs to be you know your comments need to be into Leah probably I would say by January. Uh, like 10th or something like that. 9th.
Does that seem right? >> Yeah, I think so. >> I'm just checking my calendar to be sure. That Friday before Yes. 9th. Okay. Do we have any other hands raised
um to make a public comment? I don't see any. You can take a couple of minutes to see. Hopefully everyone knows how to do that raising the hand thing. I have found that to be a challenge in some Zoom
sessions still. Um >> I suppose I could ask people. Do you want me to? >> Yeah, I mean sure. >> Let's see if we can >> I mean because you know who's presenting, >> right? So Denise.
>> Yep. I'm here for a presentation. A >> presentation. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, Carolyn, I don't know if you want to speak. >> I'm mostly here to listen. Okay. I'd also like to know
>> I'm not sure what's covered tonight. Is it the recreation proposals? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Listen. Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. That Yep. And and historic preservation is next week. >> Great. Thank you. Thanks. >> Thank you. Thanks for being here. You're
>> welcome. >> And I have someone listed as BD. Not sure if they're interested. Well, since the um I think we posted the hearing was from 5:30 to 6
maybe uh we need just to to take a few minutes and see if others join but and and we not everyone is here for their presentations because we have a timed
we have a time for later. So, >> um, Lee, if you could move folks back to their the however this works. I don't know the magic of this where we have two
different rooms, but same room. That'd be great. Thank you. Dave has a comment or question. >> Yeah, I was just going to comment, Katie, that normally what happens in these situations since the public
hearing was posted from 5:30 to 6, you know, there's an obligation on the part of the the committee to keep it open till 6. Um, and you know, Leah could and all and you as the if you can see all the uh attendees, Katie can keep an eye
if there are new people that enter the the room uh and want to speak, you could do that. Uh, but we need to wait, you know, 10 minutes or so. Yeah. >> To close the public hearing and you could vote at that point to close the public hearing and then open the regular meeting of the CPAC preparing for
presentations. >> Right. Thank you. That's what I assumed we had to do. So, we can all just uh wait patiently here. It better to be prepared and ready for plenty of time for folks
than not enough If folks want to go off camera and read the newspaper while Leah and I keep an eye out for folks, that's totally great. I will shout it out if we have anybody else who
wants to speak. You don't have to, but just an offer. Hi Angus, welcome. We're We are in the middle of the public hearing and all those who are currently in attendance who wish to speak have spoken. So, we are holding an out until at least
six o'clock to um because that was the public hearing was um yeah, noticed it that way. So, you still you have a you have three minutes to take a deep breath and um unless you hear from me otherwise. >> Thank you.
>> Yes, you're welcome. Oh, hey Jonas. >> Hi. Welcome. We're in We're in the middle of um >> I appeared. I'm sorry. I was on route from my mom's from New Jersey and I >> No worries. No, not not to worry. We're still in the public hearing, but those
who >> wish to speak have spoken. >> Okay. Um, so we were Yeah, >> we're waiting for others to arrive. >> Yeah, we're waiting. I mean, it's six o'clock now. It was posted to run from 5:30 to 6. So, I think um
I don't see any >> others who have joined us. So, I don't think we'll have additional comments, but I'll um I'll wait for everyone else to get back
um on video and then we can proceed Jason, if you Ellen, if you if the two of you are there and we can roll, that would be great. Awesome. Hi.
Great. Okay. Well, um I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing seeing as we don't have anyone else in attendance wishing to speak.
>> So move. >> I got that from Robins. Do I hear a second? >> I'll second. >> Tim is seconding. And any discussion? All those in favor say I. We'll do a roll call vote for
this. Sorry for that, but we will. Tim, >> hi. >> Jonas, >> hi. >> Robin, >> hi >> Bob. >> Hi >> Angus. >> Hi >> Jason.
>> I >> Ellen. >> I. >> Thank you. And I am an I as well. So with that motion, we'll close the public hearing and um we'll move to open
the CPA regular meeting of December 11th, 2025. Um call the meeting to order. I just wanted to note that
um the roll call vote is seems kind of um formal and strange, but I did review the the state the Commonwealth's rules on um a municipal meetings and hearings like this and if it's on Zoom, you do
need a roll call vote. So, I'm sorry that we have to do that, but that's the way it is. I wanted to I was trying to find a way that we didn't have to do it, but we'd have to meet in person anyway. Um,
okay. So, the first order of business was taken care of earlier because Jason offered to do the minutes for um this evening. Thank you. And so, our next order of business is to approve the
minutes from last from the 13th of November. Sorry, not last week. We don't have those. Well, we h we'll have them next week. The November 13th minutes. Do I have a motion >> to approve the November 13th minutes?
>> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Tim. Um any comments or corrections, changes, edits that anyone had? Okay. So, >> I actually think I do.
>> I do have a comment, but I Sorry, I have to open them. >> That's okay. If it's something minor like a word, a misspelling or a typo or something like that. >> It was just something was attributed to
me that I'm not sure was quite right. >> Oh, okay. Oh, these are the wrong ones. Ah, sorry. >> That's okay. Angus, did you have a question or comment on them? >> Yeah, I just had two minor things. Um,
one, I I don't think it matters that much, but my my name is misspelled the present. >> Um, And then um I also made a disclosure for the Simeon Strong House that my museums and education class is working with
um the Amoris History Center um this semester on an unrelated project. Okay. So we'll to we can make the correction for sure on the spelling and you'd like to make sure that that
uh uh disclosure was is also included. >> I think so. Yeah. And I can I'm happy to like send an email explaining that if that if that would be helpful to Leah or someone. >> Well, if it's in the recording, I mean
that's we just have to take what's in the you know what was what was stated. Um, but thank you. And I think those are minor adjustments. >> Yeah, I will I'll make those changes and
recirculate. >> Thank you, Bob. I think we can we still can if if folks are in agreement with changes, but I think Ellen was still looking to see there might have been something.
>> Yes, I'm still looking. Let's see. Here we are. Nope. Oh my god. I'm sorry. I guess it's fine. >> Well, if it I mean, if it was something that was factual, like factually misstated, we
certainly want to change that. But if it's >> I put everything in a folder and it's for I must have gone into another folder by mistake and I'm doing a search but >> it be from Leah what's what is the date November 13th.
>> Yeah, I keep getting November 6. I don't want to waste time on this. >> It's okay. You know, you you could just you could determine your vote based on this of abstaining or or not. Um but we have a motion on the floor to
approve the minutes. It's been seconded. There have been a couple of minor suggested um updates which po which Bob has agreed to to do with Leah. Um, so
I will take a roll call vote to approve the minutes with these corrections as stated. >> Tim, >> I >> Jonas, >> hi >> Robin.
>> Hi >> Bob. >> Hi >> Angus. Hi. >> Uh, Ellen. >> Um, can I abstain from it? >> Yes. Yep. Okay, >> you can abstain.
>> I will do that. >> Yes. Yep. And Jason >> I. >> And I'm voting I. So, we'll approve the minutes as uh stated with those corrections.
Thank you. All right. Um, we are early or even on track. Um, the first presentation is for the pickle ball courts which I believe Dave, are you presenting?
>> Yes. >> Okay. So, we do have the presenter with us. Um, are you okay with going ahead now? >> I am. Yes. >> Okay. Any other questions from the committee before we get started on anything up to now?
All right. Well, great Dave. Thank you. I'd love to invite you to present on this awesome project. >> Great. Thank you very much, Katie. Um I think Leah has a couple of slides or a slide deck she's going to tee up in a
minute, but while she's doing that, um it is a little bit unusual. I normally don't present to the committee. I'm usually kind of helping to guide you and uh also working behind the scene with staff and also many other applicants. Um this year uh because of the number of
projects from the town uh working with uh Amy Rouski from DPW and Ray Harp uh I just decided to kind of jump in here a little bit and and take a little load off. Uh unfortunately Ry had a conflict tonight so he can't be with us. So, I'm
trying to pick up the load a little bit on the recreation side. Amy will be presenting later, and I know that the folks from the uh uh skate park will be presenting, I believe, in between. So, and we've had conversations with with them. So, I'm happy to jump jump in here
and present pickle ball. And uh I think Leah's going to get a few slides up. So, great. Let me jump right in. I want to move through these slides as quickly as possible. I think we all know that there's been years of community support and advocacy for pickle ball in Ammerst.
Uh it's no surprise that we're back here after a few years. We took a few years off, regrouped. Uh I want to say that uh unequivocally, you know, the the the demand and the interest in pickle ball has not lessened at all. It's only
grown. Uh so all of us working DPW recreation and planning together uh have kind of said okay uh our original site that we had selected some years ago uh did not work. Uh so we really want to move forward and explore u a site that
I'm going to tell you about in a minute. Next slide. So, I think you have all of this in and most of this is a recap of what we presented uh to you months ago, but just in a slightly different format. Uh the funding request is for $650,000.
And the site we're looking at is Grath Park. The team we've put together is the same team. It's the team that we look at for all of these recreation uh uh projects. It's DPW, it's it's recreation, and and I kind of bring in the planning staff. And again, there's
tremendous support in the community for pickle ball courts. Uh no question about that. Our proposed timeline, uh just quickly, um going through that, uh we are committed to doing a sound study out at G Park. Uh we know that and we
acknowledge that uh pickle ball courts uh do have a particular sound and noise associated with the sport. Uh and we're committed to working uh to assess that uh site and work with the neighborhood uh to see if G Park is the right site
for this and uh that we can have minimal uh to no impact on the neighborhood. Uh we were funded in previous rounds of CPA to do some um due diligence out at G Park. This is to not for pickle ball per se, but to look at the whole park. So,
we're going to be doing survey work, resource, natural resource surveys out there to look at the river, the wetlands, etc. We've done some we've started our neighborhood outreach um uh and we're going to continue that. We were out in the neighborhood in the fall
going doortodoor and then we had a popup uh event over there where we met with neighbors this fall and walked around and talked about um some of uh the the the opportunities we have there to improve Grath Park. And we also heard some concerns from neighbors. We want to
acknowledge that we heard them and we're we're doing our due diligence out there and we'll continue that this summer or excuse me in the summer and uh spring and summer of 26. Um we're looking to finalize design if we're funded in summer of 26 and then try to go to
construction in the fall uh and finish up in the spring of 27. Next slide, please. Um why pickle ball courts? I think everybody knows it's the fastest growing sport in the in the country. Great exercise. It's inexpensive. So, the
threshold to start playing pickle ball is very low. Ammerst has a tremendous demand. We're one of the few communities in the region that don't we don't have pickle ball courts. And we as staff hear from a lot of people about uh the interest and need to have a few courts
in town. We do. I will say that we have uh heard those concerns and we have created uh what I would call a pilot program up at Mil River Recreation Area where we've resurfaced the two tennis courts up there and we have lined those
tennis courts to be both uh pickle ball courts and uh tennis courts. and we're trying an experiment up there to see how tennis and pickle ball can uh uh coexist and colllocate. Uh despite those efforts and I think they've been wellreceived,
uh the pickle ball community is saying we we need more courts than sharing the courts at Mil River. So broad community support. Uh we were previously we the town uh were previously funded for $120,000 and in our proposal you saw that uh we still have that money
available. We will be using some of that money for uh the sound study. Next slide, please. Why gra park? Um I think it's pretty evident, but I'll just quickly go through uh we did a a needs assessment.
We looked at park all of our recreation areas around town uh for all the amenities that they have, parking in particular, access, uh the noise component, and potential impact on neighborhood. And we landed on Grath Park. It's got existing parking is
existing uh restrooms um and it's on a bus route, walkable, bikable, etc. Next slide. Uh we have a concept plan and I want to be really clear that um this is very preliminary. We believe we can create
two to four courts in the in the northern section to be determined northern part of Gra Park. Um, we need to get there to build the courts. We need to, and that is the access road you can see on the far right of this slide.
Um, we need an accessible walkway, which isn't shown on this plan because, uh, we still need to do our due diligence. So that's where this survey work will come in handy. But we also know from meeting and talking with our town engineer that we it's feasible to bring an accessible
walkway from the parking lot by the uh uh spray park and get up to where these courts um uh could be could be located. Again, this is very preliminary and it may change based on survey work on drainage and permitting etc. All of this
would need to go through the conservation commission, uh the design review board, the planning board, uh and I'm probably missing uh someone in there as well. Uh the um um uh disabil DAAC uh
as well. So, next slide. Um, all of this is is captured in the budget, but I just broke it down a little bit differently. Looking at permitting and preparation costs, um, construction costs. Uh, you'll see there
is a a placeholder there for sound attenuation. If we need to do that based on the sound study and other inputs, um, we are prepared to do that. Uh and then there's some associated costs, you know, the the the things like preparing the
the the courts themselves, painting, lining, nets, etc. And again, um we think the total cost is around $750, but we know we we're going to have at least $100,000 from the previous allocation. So this request is for 650. Next slide,
please. And that's where we stand. So I'll leave it at that. um and take your questions. >> Thanks, Dave. And you're under under time, so thank you. I didn't make my announcement again of 10 minutes for
presentation. Um but we you did that speedily. >> Happy to go back to any of those slides. I know that was kind of warp speed. >> No, no, that's great. So, we do have some questions and Tim, you were first up. >> Okay. Uh Dave, the uh
can the sound study and the sound attenuation wait? In other words, this year we have obviously a really tight tight budget. And uh what about building the courts and using them and then doing
it and then putting sound attenuation in maybe in a future year to save some money on this year's project? Okay, I'll see if I can tease that apart a little bit. Uh Tim, um first of all, we are already we are already under
contract for the sound study. So, um we are, you know, we are committed to doing that sound study and making sure that these courts do not have impacts on the neighbors that live along uh Mil Lane.
just to give you. So I think that is just a statement I'll put out there. So we can't really put the cart the courts before the sound study. We we've really got to commit to doing that and we've hired a company that does sound studies for pickleball courts. Uh as you all
probably know, pickle ball courts have been built all over the country and some of them have buil been built in in inappropriate locations. So we we've made commitments to the residents along Mil Lane that we will do the sound study. We will keep them involved in the
process and if sound attenuation is needed and that can come in different forms uh whether it's fencing, whether it's vegetation, whether it's a combination of of those two. Uh the the the distance the courts are from the
nearest residence is very important. um these the proposed location is on the order of 500 feet from the nearest property line. So, we're committed to looking at all of those factors in this process.
>> So, I think we've got to do that work. We're committed to doing it. Um and and I think we learned some lessons from our last process. And >> that's all I guess I can say about that. >> Just a quick followup. How much is that
costing the count? Uh, I wish Ray were here tonight. Um, I'm I believe it's on the order of about 1510 to $15,000. I think it's closer to 10. So, that's coming out of the original 120. And that's why we know that, you know, we're
not we're not utilizing much of that uh that that previous allocation. >> Great. Thank you, Dave. Ellen. >> Yeah. Thanks, Dave. I have two questions. Um, I was hoping you could explain sort of what you will do with
the sound study and its results. So, is there like some type of official threshold noise level that you want to try to be under? I mean, I I just don't quite I I appreciate that you're doing it, of course, and that there are ways
to uh mitigate it, but I just would like to know a little bit more. >> Well, it's a great question. We are actually learning as we go. We've never we have not built new pickle ball courts. I would, you know, as I stated
earlier, we have um lined the courts at Mil River so that there are multiple pickle ball courts there that that are shared with tennis. We have had very few um almost no concerns or or or
negative feedback about the use of Mil River and we've been doing that for at least two summers. So there's been very little feedback there. But lots of things can play into this. Topography can play into this. Vegetation can play into this. So we're going to be learning
as we go with this company we've hired. And I think I guess I I can't predetermine what they're going to tell us or what we're going to learn in that, but they will also guide us if they believe we need sound attenuation. What are some of those options to do that?
>> Great. Thank you. It be interesting to see um >> and we will all of that will be public and we will share it with the community. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, do you anticipate that the access road would remain after
construction or would it be demolished? >> That's a great question and I wanted uh to note um on my slides that I said you know we were this is very preliminary. It's an approximate location for the for the for the courts themselves. I said
two to four. I think that's our comfort range. um we need to do more work and that's where the the survey work. Uh we're looking we're going to be looking at groundwater. We're going to be look at at surface water resource areas because of course the fort river is in
the upper upper portion of that um slide. We need to stay out of the 200 foot uh um riverfront area for the for the fort river. So I think we don't know that yet. There is also the option to
try to put parking closer to the courts uh which would help us with some ADA issues. So the concept is very preliminary. As I said, we've we've talked with Amy um uh and myself. We have talked with Rey and our town
engineer and he believes that um uh an ADA walkway can can be built from the parking lot and that's in the budget. >> Thank you. Great. Thanks, Ellen. Bob, you're up next.
>> Yeah. Um, apologies. I have four questions. Um, Dave, uh, the in the pool house, you mentioned this matching grant, the park grant, I believe it was called, for recreation. Is that something that would be
applicable here to match funds for pickle ball or not? >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, a park grant can be we can apply for park grants for a number of different range of different um improvements to recreation areas. So, park grants can be used for
accessibility for new comfort stations, i.e. bathrooms, spray parks. Uh we, you know, we've done that successfully in the past. I think the the challenging piece, and Amy will speak to this later, is um even in a even in a a normal year
or a normal period of funding in this country and in this state, um we can only get so many park grants from the state. We've been very successful at them. Uh, I'm thinking uh War Memorial Pool, Mil River Pool got a park grant,
Kendrick Park got a park grant or we got uh we we applied for and received grants for those places. So, we have to tee them up in a way that's logical. Having said that, we don't know what the playing field is going to be like with
regard to state grants for uh recreation or conservation. Um there's a lot of uncertainty right now and I think Amy will touch on that later uh going you know thinking about a park grant for war memorial but the the short answer is yeah we could apply the question is what
are the higher higher priorities we won't get to in one year I can tell you that but you had other questions about it >> thanks yeah um the uh have those mill river courts been resurfaced in an with
the higher use are they brand new surfaces or the old surfaces on the tennis courts. >> We just resurfaced the courts very recently. So, we will have more knowledge I think in 26 and 27 about, you know, that dual
use. But, but DPW working with recreation just resurfaced those courts and that was CPA dollars. I believe that was CPA as well. >> Okay. Thanks. Um, and refresh my memory. Did we allocate funds to have those
softball fields redone? And has that been done? >> Uh, you are correct. CPA funds did pay I believe it was on the order of $80,000. Um that work has not been done yet, but the upper uh the upper field at Grath
Park which is uh on one of the concept slide that we showed will be re re redone as will the varsity field at War Memorial and then the softball field at Kana Park. All will be done with in 26 with CPA funds.
My last question, when was the last time the town added a brand new recreational facility from scratch? >> Um, I know Amy's on this call. Um,
from scratch. Um, you know, we did the spray park at G Park, which was a pretty big project that was on the order of 1.5 million grant funding and CPA funding. >> Um, we did the playground at Kendrick
Park uh with CPA funding and a park grant. So, those are the two newest, I believe. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, Bob. And we are trying to keep on time here and I want to make sure
everybody gets their questions. We've got three more folks with hands raised and about five or six more minutes. So, let's roll. Angus, you're next. >> Thanks. Yeah, I I'll keep my question pretty brief. It's about sighting and the cost associated with sighting. So,
um it looks like the access road and the ADA path are around or almost half of the cost of the project. victims and around $300,000 and it it seems I understand why the the placement is in the corner of Grath Park away from people but at the same time
that's driving a huge amount of the expenses of this project. So I guess I'd like to hear a little bit more about the justification for why Mil River definitely won't work. Why the repurposing of a couple of tennis courts there or multiuse even though it's it's in pretty close proximity to a whole lot
of people is working okay. Um, and why I guess I'm I'm wanting some justification for the sighting considering that's such a major driver of the cost of this project. >> Very briefly, I can't fully explain why why Mil River is working from a sound
standpoint. Um, I I honestly can't uh it it's an experiment. We're we're trying up there. we may at some point get uh residents there who really don't find the u the noise compatible with with their their
their uses of their houses. So, um but so far so good. Um we looked at all the other recreation areas in town and the first thing we looked at was distance from residential uh homes. And when you
think of and and existing uses, right? I mean, uh, Plum Brook, uh, yes, there are a couple of houses close to the plum plum plum brook fields. Uh, but we spent about a million dollars, uh, resurfacing those fields. They are, you know, some
of our best fields for soccer and and field sports. Uh, we cannot fit two to four pickle ball courts there given the the, uh, natural resources and the the fields. We looked at Kowanas and we know where that went. Um we we've looked at
Community Field. So this is one of our largest parks. It has a very large field and we can achieve distance from the residents from from the residential development along Mil Lane by putting it in the far uh northern section of the park. But there is a cost to getting
there ADA cost and a construction and maintenance cost. And that is the road. Again, very preliminary. We may be able to reduce those costs. This is a very conservative budget. It might be less. >> Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you, Jonas. >> Uh yes. Uh David, the um sound study, let's say it's borderline um you know, problematic for neighbors. Is that going to then lead to let's do this sound attenuation
or does that lead to the project gets stopped? I'm hoping the former um and that it's um partly courtesy because you've you've there are kind of standards that this location is very far
away from houses um based on I don't know maybe some other parks that are out there um in the country. So, is the sound study if it's unless it's egregious, would the sound study kind of derail the whole project? That's question one. And then, would the um
access road potentially be repurposed for the ADA accessibility if maybe concession is like, you know, parking is there, this is going to get us this is going to get us these courts. You're going to have to park down there. And now this this you know the access
path gets whatever has to be done to make it you know ADA. >> So let me answer the second question first. I think that's why I was very clear that it's a very preliminary design. You notice we didn't even put the walkway on there. Um, but I will say
that, you know, we have had conversations about whether the access way off of Mil Lane could be the access way for people to drive back to the to the courts. What that does is it opens up the field
to some um security issues, if you will, because we don't want people driving across fields because that could be very damaging and very dangerous. So, I guess the short answer is there's a possibility that we could look at that access way being the way that people get
to the courts, but we're not there yet. >> And it has to be has to be driven. I I guess I misunderstood. I thought maybe just has to be wheelchair accessible. Has to be drivable and then like obviously you >> Yeah, we we would it is
>> too far. We would not make the ADA access off of Mil Lane and have >> whether it's legal or just in good conscience. Yeah. >> As I mentioned, we have to take this through the planning board and many boards and committees including those who look at our efforts to make things
recreation areas as accessible as possible. The the answer to your question, first question, Jonas, I'm not sure I can really answer that. We're we're committed to working with the neighbors. Um, I think that's a conversation to be had in the spring. If this moves forward from you to the town
council, then then we will continue to have those conversations and we'll know more about the sound study, you know, let's say in February, early March somewhere. So, we're committed to doing that. you know, town staff and I, we
this appears to be our last chance to really site pickle ball course courts. So, we want to do it right. We want to take our time and do it right. And if it doesn't happen, then there are other options. So, um those might be working
with the colleges, working with the university on access to their pickle ball courts. >> All right, Jason, you're up. Thank you. Um Dave, the town had a pickle ball tournament at Hampshire
College this past summer, I believe, and there's about 10 tennis courts out there that are uh you know, I'll just say in the middle of nowhere from a sound standpoint and housing standpoint. Has there been any conversations with Hampshire College about potentially
how often those are utilized and maybe restriping those and the town and the college coming to some kind of agreement? I imagine that the pickle ball courts generally get used a lot more in the summertime than they do in the wintertime when they're outdoors
and, you know, potentially up into the autumn. But, you know, if it is a lot more during the summer, especially long hours into the with daylight and the night and students aren't there and it being so far out there, that looks to me like it would be a potentially really
good place to put these. There's a road there already. Um, has any of the have any of those conversations been had? >> Yeah, great question. And I kind of broadly alluded to that a minute ago, Jason. Conversations with the colleges and and universities. So, we definitely have talked to Hampshire College about
they they do have lined pickle ball courts back as you said back in the woods on the western part of their their property. I I have played many hours of tennis there um in my long tennis career. Um but uh they also have indoor courts in their tennis uh facility off
of Bay Road. Um so, short answer, yes, we've had conversations. We're continuing to have those conversations. Um the limitations we face are CPA dollars can't can't achieve that goal. Uh we
can't secure access to those those courts uh either through a purchase certainly is not an option. And then um renting them for town residents. We can't use CPA dollars. So it would have to be more through some sort of
cooperative with Hampshire College. and and that's where conversations are continuing to happen. So, um they do have a membership system at Hampshire College. I'm sure some people on this call or in the audience know about that and you can join Hampshire College to
play indoors and outdoors and um so we are having those conversations and they're kind of happening in tandem in parallel to to this one here tonight as we think about public pickle ball courts that would remain on a public park for perpetuity. So, a good question and
we're continuing to explore that with Hampshire. >> Great. Thank you, Dave. Um, I think we've exhausted the questions for this and appreciate your answers. >> Great. If there are any questions in the
future, we're happy to submit um answers to questions as as members think about it. Thanks. >> Thank you. Great. Um, so Leah, I'm trying to see who is um I It's
the All Wheels skate park and I think >> I think it might be Audrey if I'm not m or Aubrey. >> Aubrey. Yeah, >> if I'm not mistaken. So I will try. Okay, >> thank you. I see her now. Yeah, >> him. Sorry them. All right, Aubrey,
welcome. Welcome to CPA. Um, we are happy to have you here and happy to have your present your presentation and I um I think we were in touch about some changes that you wanted to share um to
to the request. So uh we'll give you chance to up to 10 minutes or so to to do your presentation and then we'll um have up to the another 10 minutes or so for um questions following that from the
committee members. Sound good? >> Sounds great. Awesome. Thank you, Katie. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. My name's Aubrey. I'm representing uh AllH Wheels Ammerst whose mission is to create a safe, sustainable, and communitydriven skate
park that complements existing town recreational assets and becomes a local hub for active play, socializing, and healthy movement. We uh started as a group of four Ammeris dads who skateboard together and skateboard scooter with our children and were surprised that there were no skate park
skate parks or any action sports wreck facilities in Ammerst. Um, and I think that there's nobody to blame for this. Um, typically towns wait, as we all know, that for some sort of outcry for a facility like this to be created because of the budget. And um,
but because uh, the recreation is often illegal. Skateboarders do their best to be unseen a lot of the times. Also, children on scooters and bikes don't know what they don't have, so they're not going to be doing an outcry. Um, we put out a short survey to a group of
Ammerst parents recently and in the short time we're response uh were surprised by the response and the amount of support. Um, most people um thought that uh an all wheel skate park was important to
hammers. Also uh most of respond most of the respondents were willing to join us in the mission in these various ways uh 45 altogether which was um pretty exciting I think.
So before um I summarize the proposal and yes I I do have an updated proposal and I have links to this that I links to that proposal I can share I'd like to summarize uh or or take a few minutes to sort of educate uh on the hidden need of a new of a skate park in Ammerst. Um
here are national averages. I'm going to use those to show an estimate of skateboarders and and BMX bikers uh in Ammerst. So 2.73% of total population uh in the US are skateboarders. 1.34%
BMX bikers. Uh there are many types of uh wheels who will also use this park. I I wasn't able to come up with data for all of them. Um and all these other ones, but in reality the actual numbers would be a bit higher than the ones I'm showing. Uh there especially there's a lot of kids on scooters. Uh if if
anybody who's got children, they probably have scooters and um they love these parks, which is great. I'm not going to go through all this this I wouldn't have time to, but uh I wanted to share this on the presentation so people can go back and look at it. Um this is all the different activities and
using the per capita um on a statistic research uh uh earlier this year. Um uh we can see how many uh participants there are for the different recreations and we also did a a facility recreation
count using Google maps. Um so um not fully accurate but I I think we were able to uh calculate the um um the service population if you were to build a new facility for that um for
that recreation. You can see here pickle ball obviously needs a needs a new facility but skateboarding and BMX together uh over or nearly 1,600 um um people uh as you know a rough estimate.
Also um since Ammerst has uh schools uh the populations would skew younger as well. So these would be a little bit higher in that regard also. Um, so I think I think there is a huge need for a skate park in
Hammers. Um, I also wanted to quickly mention what a skate park brings to the community. I think it's important and I'm going to assume everybody already understands all the benefits that accessible outdoor physical activity bring to a community's quality of life. Uh instead, I'd like to um go into uh
and mention two benefits that are unique to skateboarding or action sports that you skate uh actions that use a skate park. Um the first one is that all the ages recreate together. Um, so there ends up being a mentor mentee
relationships that organically form and um, yeah, I think everybody should just consider how how impactful that is and and how how much that uh, represents true community spirit. Also, um, the second one I wanted to
bring up is a study by the University of Southern California called Beyond the Board says that skateboarding encourages resilience. The nature of skateboarding requires skaters to learn on their own and develop their own strategies to succeed. Skaters frequently perform a trick hundreds of times over long periods before developing proficiency
and experience rewards for their efforts. Uh skaters in the study reported that they apply these lessons of resilience to the lives outside of skateboarding and also who loses out the most if Amoris doesn't have a skate park. And to to put it frankly, disadvantaged
children um pro and semi pro skaters already know how to find facilities. Older athletes and those with enough resources to travel to Greenfield or wherever aren't hit the hardest. It's those who don't have the resources to travel. Um it's also worth noting that according to the Aspen Institute, Utah State
University, skateboarding is the third least expensive sport. There also aren't a ton of free or cheap recreational options for high school or middle school. uh students in Ammeris when school is out. I've I've heard this a bunch from parents that I know and other people who uh grew up in Ammerst.
So, let's build a skate park. Why not? Uh so, here here's a summary of the proposal. Um and you know, this is just getting started. Um we're we're proposing a phased approach and we're seeking $20,000 to complete the first phase of the skate park project. Um the
budget will be used to pay a company to do the following for two sites that are candidates for this skate park. So a lot of this is, you know, sighting. Um and I I got to talk to Dave and Amy and Ray um last week about it and gave they gave
some excellent advice on on on how to move forward with this. So it was very helpful. Thank you. Um but um the um things that we we would get with our 20,000 is a site selection study that includes utilities, environmental, storm water, natural resource mapping and
regulation permitting local land use uh as well as a geotechnical review of those two sites with limited subserve exploration. So there will be some digging um a diagrammatic conceptual design and also to hold a public meeting to obtain input on the preferred site.
And a lot of it would be um what we're getting out of this is to uh get buy in and excitement from the community for something like this. Another option um which is $40,000 is to do all the above u plus u do a full survey and a full
schematic designs and then 3D renderings of those um designs and and um that that second option is beneficial for garnering community support and also when applying for a park grant for example. Um, these services were provided to East Hampton in support of
their evaluation of potential sites for a skate park, which ultimately ended up at Millside Park as a town's preferred location. Um, and they're they're an excellent model for um how we can um move forward and make the skate park.
I've got a link to the full proposal here. This is an updated one. I'll also uh share it out. It's got um those two options in full detail. those little quick points that I have are are written up in detail.
Um, and then financing as well. Um, the full, you know, this is just that first phase. The full construction of a professional skate park is uh typically about $500,000 to $750,000 considering a size of a park that Amoris would need. Um
and we would seek grants, private community sponsorships and town support and further CPA funding to complete the remaining phases of the project. For example, uh East Hampton um secured a $425,000 park a park grant uh and a um a
further $250,000 in their CPA um fund for um for their park which was um 750,000 I think. Getting that right. So that's it. Thank you very much for listening to me. Thank you everyone who
showed up and is taking part. >> Great, Aubrey. Thank you so much. I really appreciate all the information and your presentation and um want to open it up to go back to um
the regular view. I think we have to stop sharing. >> Okay, >> then we can see each other and um I'll take any questions from the committee. Um, really appreciate the thought you put into this, Angus.
>> Yeah, thank you. I just have a very quick clarifying question. So, the option one is for $20,000. Option two is a total of 40 like including the that that 40,000 includes the 20,000 from the from option one. >> That's correct. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thanks. >> Great. Thank you, Jonas. >> Yeah. Thanks, Aubrey. you mentioned um do you have two sites in mind? >> No, not currently. And I think um what we would need to do next is um and this
would be either the town, the recia or all-wheeler or some um configuration of those groups would need to have a a bigger list and and um whittle those down to two. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> But the $20,000 would look at one of
would look at two. It would include one two sites. Yeah. >> Nice. >> Great. Thanks, Jonas. Um Bob, >> sure. Uh Aubrey, thanks for that presentation. It was excellent. Um remembering the community's concern over
the track and soccer field and the PAS issue. Um, I'm wondering, are there alternative materials out there that they build skate parks out of now that aren't just pure old-fashioned concrete?
>> There are definitely options. You know, there's uh you can spend, you know, rebar that is more envir environmentally sound. Um, I'm not a pro I'm not a specialist on this. Um, but there are definitely options obviously budget um being a part of it. Uh but it's also
worth noting noting that skateboarders and skateboard um culture uh loves using um previous town um um things that that that are important to the town is sort of part of the um uh essence of the of
the park. So reusing old materials if there's or art from the community. So, it could be fun to um um commission local artists or find um you know, materials that are are typically in the waste to incorporate into the park.
>> Thanks. >> Um Oh, Ellen. Oh, go ahead. >> Thanks. Um, you said that the money would go toward examining possibly two sites and I assume that these are all
public lands um to be eligible for CPA money, but do you know what they are yet? I mean, you must have some idea. >> Well, we would there definitely need to create a bigger list. Um, some of the um
things that make a park good are things like visibility. um you know making sure that um there's good visibility from a road or street. It's it's um show there's been a lot of skate parks made and it's been proven
that um crime is lowered. Um there's less um graffiti so you don't need to have maintenance costs go down and and generally skateboarders you know when you put a park in the right place um um maintenance they maintain their own
park. Um, but things like parking, um, ADA accessibility, um, as well as, um, things like, um, yeah, like sound and and stuff. Um,
the, um, War Memorial Park, you know, that's a lot of stuff is going on there. That would be an interesting site, but again, it's still early. We need to make the big list and and it down. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. Um maybe a Oh, Dave does have his hand raised. I I was going to ask Dave if you a point of clarification for me and for maybe some other members of the committee is um a process question around recreation
um partnering and if that's already been decided that if there is funding for this recreation is all in favor and it would go forward that way. if you could just clarify the process. >> Sure. Uh I can do the best I can here.
Um um I don't want to speak for Ry, but I've been in a number of meetings as as Aubrey mentioned with Amy and with Ry, and I know that Aubrey, you did present already to the to the commission to the recreation commission. So in general, I
think there's a lot of enthusiasm and support for exploring this concept. I think uh our assessment we would work if this were funded we DPW planning uh recreation would work together with
Aubrey and and his volunteers to uh and this the group that he's put together uh to look at all of our recreation land in Ammerst not unlike what we did for pickle ball and say okay what are the attributes of a park as he's mentioned
parking visibility uh bus route central central location. You know, putting this out on one of the branches uh uh of of our long narrow town probably doesn't make sense for a lot of reasons. We want this to be if it's built to be
accessible, to be visible, um and and make it a place where people want to gather and it's easy to gather. So, we would work with with Aubrey and and his his folks to to do that assessment, come up with those two most logical uh
recreation areas and then drill down on each of those. >> Does that I didn't mean um Thank you. No, that's helpful. I just I was sort of asking about not the process of choosing but more about um
uh you know the partnership between recreation and the town and and Aubrey and his and that group and so it sounds like that's already sort of aligned at the moment based on >> I think it is. Yeah, we've had some very fruitful conversations and I think based
on the one we had last week and and kudos to Aubrey and and and all of uh his folks, they pivoted from the original proposal which we we we we had some questions about to
this one which makes a lot of sense. it is a phased approach and and and it made you know good sense to us to kind of look at a partnership. Uh and Amy and and Ray were in that meeting and I think we all agreed this was a a better way to go.
>> Great. Thank you. And I I interrupted the flow with that clarification question. I don't know Jason, were you up next or >> Yeah, I already had it go so let let Jason go first. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks. Thanks Jonas. Thanks Katie. Um, my question was really just to I just
want to clarify in our packets the the original request was 101,200. Now the request is for 20,000 or 40,000. Um, >> that's correct. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. And that does happen during this
process. Revisions are made. Um, so >> yeah, I apologize for not getting an update to the document sooner. that that happened last week and uh yeah it very quick. >> No worries. Thank you. >> Thanks Jason Jonas.
>> Yes I'm wondering um you cited eastampton as a model. Are there things that just you can kind of generally talk to that you've learned that maybe kind of lessons learned of theirs like because you touched on a on the sound and we've heard it with pickle ball. Um, I imagine that might be and there might
be some misinformation and about, you know, what it's going to be. Personally, I think it probably might bring some energy. Um, I lived in Boston near Boston College and the the co-eds on one hand were a little annoying, but they also made me feel
young. Um, so sorry if I'm editorializing here too much. Um, so I guess question is what what would um East Hampton if if there are things you learned from East Hampton that you could talk to? Well, I think the big one is um
the the process and and I think it's also the various groups that are working on it. Um as well as Springfield built a park not too long ago. So, there sort of a really nice progression. Um skateparks have come a long way. Every skatepark is
totally different. Um and uh for example, North Hampton has a skate park and the best practices h have come, you know, they're becoming widely known and and so parks are getting better and better and they're becoming more accessible. Um they're becoming quieter.
Um, uh, skate parks typically, um, have a a noise threshold of of which is, um, I have here 65 to 71 dB, um, which is in between conversational speech is 60 dB. Normal street noise about 70 dB. So,
they're relatively quiet. I know I know we all heard skateboards go by on street and they make that loud sort of jet engine noise where those wheels aren't typically made for the rough um, concrete on the ground. Um, and so they're quite a bit quieter in a
well-built, well-designed park. Uh, that's just one example, the the sound. Uh, but also things like I mentioned earlier like visibility. Um, uh, you know, typically skate parks are often hidden somewhere because they thought that was a good idea and that turned out to be a terrible idea. Really close to
things like, you know, splash pads and and kids parks. That's what Springfield did. A lot of a lot of times it's families visiting them and having everybody to be able to recreate together has turned out to be super positive. >> Great. Thanks. >> Great. Thank you. We're right on 20
minutes there, Aubrey. Appreciate so much your presentation and your um the adjustments you've made and the answers to all our questions. >> Well, thank you so much, Katie. Thank you. >> Thanks for taking the Yeah, thanks for taking the initiative. That's we love to see that.
>> Sure. >> Great. >> Okay. So, I think Amy's here for the war memorial bath house. I don't know if anyone else is, but I think that's our next
our final Great. Welcome, Amy. I see your name. Haven't seen you, but um just mentioning again that we've we have about up to 10 minutes for your presentation, then another 10 for questions, and we're
happy you're here. Welcome. >> Hi. Thanks. >> Hi. >> This is actually I'm swimming in time now because I thought that I had five minutes. So >> Oh, well. I have no idea why I got that in my head, but that's okay. So, I will try to keep this brief. So, if I'm able
to share a screen, um I'll also note that um Denise, who is our um aquatics director, is here and I don't know if it makes sense to to bring her on the panel because I think offer some great context as well. >> Yeah, please do.
>> Thanks for having me, everyone. >> Hi, Denise. Welcome. >> All right. Hopefully I am screen sharing at this point. Um so I just want to talk quickly about the the war memorial pool
which anybody who has been on um the CPA committee, you've heard me talk about this um a couple of times now. Um and and partly because this is a facility that is badly in need of something to be
done. Um, so, um, and I hate to start with a picture of a toilet, but, um, but I think what it captures is you look at the state of the floor um, in this, you look at the the rusty pipes, you know, in other places we have CMU block that is splitting
apart. You know, like the the facility is 75 years old. Um, it's in rough shape. it it is well beyond um the useful life of it. Um we have amazing staff um with the the folks on the recck
department, the folks in DPW um and some folks in our um you know kind of planning facilities department as well. Like multiple hands are trying to do everything they can to keep this facility functional, but it's a lot of time and effort to get a facility that
still at the end of the day this is what people that are using the war memorial pool are entering and using. Um and then beyond that um it you know right now it's not there are codes that it's not meeting um in terms of ADA um and
plumbing codes and then beyond that um you know recommendations for safety. We don't have a facility where anybody can change or can get ready to go in the pool if you don't identify as male or female. You literally come to the front
desk and you go to the left for one and the right for the other and go through the locker room. So, we don't even have a space for um for non-binary or for families to be able to enter the pool together. Um um certainly Denise can talk to this if
there are any questions, but I will say especially in the last several years um Denise has done a lot of a lot of work to really put uh breathe life into um the aquatics usage. So we we have already had between mill poolool and war
memorial pool and the splash pad and then the indoor pool at the middle school. We do have a lot of aquatic facilities, but they are used. Um, and so this is a bunch of the um statistics that Denise put together on this is just the usage at war memorial. Um, and I
think to me what is really telling is um that last that last number that we have where um during the hot snap that we had last summer um the pools were open to the public for free as cooling shelters
and we had um over a thousand people just at war memorial um throughout that that for day to do cooling. There was more than that that went to Mil Riverpool as well. And so, you know, as we're having more and more of these hot
snaps, we're having a lot more people relying on the pools as uh places that they they can go to cool down. Um, I want to kind of give credit to there's been a lot of investment in the
pool itself. Um, there's been a lot of work done on that. So, as you know, the bath house, which we need in order to have a pool, um the bath house, while that hasn't gotten much work in the 75 years that it has been there, uh the
pool itself has gotten a lot of work. So, this is just kind of a snapshot of the last like 15 years worth of work that we've done. So, shade structures got installed. We did a filter upgrade and replaced all the equipment in there. Um we did ADA improvements um a couple
of summers ago with um ARPA funding. We got the chairlift replaced and then we also installed ADA stairs um so that we're making the pools more accessible. Um and then this past summer through CPA funding as well um we did uh complete
rellining of the pool and uh replacement of the gutter system. And then the other thing beyond the pool itself, I will point out that you know Denise has they now created this aquatics director position. So Denise um is now in a role
where she because there is such a demand in the town for these aquatics resources, we now have an aquatics director um that's um facilitating that. So, um, so that the grim news is, um,
this project, we're at a point where we need we need financial support or the bath house, we're we're not going to be able to limp it along for very much longer. Um, and if we can't limp along the bath house, we can't use the pool.
Um, we have done everything we can to try to bring the budget down as much as we can. Unfortunately, as we have seen with all of the other building projects that have been happening in town, costs are just
um they're big, you know. Um, so at this point, we do have um 1.25 million in previous allocations from CPA. Um, and so what we have requested is to try to
fund the rest of this project. If the town feels like it wants to keep this as a resource, then it needs to support that with funding to be able to make this bath house usable. Um,
so that's uh that that's the quick thing. Denise, I don't know if you want to add anything quickly. >> Um, no. Thank you, Amy, so much for putting the slides together. I'm just happy that I So, I was on the first
slide in my swimsuit. So, I'm happy to end u with some of the kids that I coach uh for the United Swim Team on this question slide. So, I'm happy to answer any questions and fill in any details. >> Great. Thank you both so much. I
appreciate it. Um and so Amy, if we could just stop sharing, then we can Yeah, that's awesome. If we need to go back, we can do that. Um but give the opportunity for committee members to ask either both of you questions now. And we'll start with
Alan. >> Yeah, thanks so much, Amy. That's great. Um can you just remind me what the 1.25 25 um million from previous uh previous CPA allocation. Um what was that for
exactly? Um, so that was in previous we were hopeful I you know I'm going to be honest that a year ago when we were asking for funding we were hopeful that we could be going after grant funding to
fill the gap and we really wanted to try to have CPA funding you know potential for some other grants potent you know just we wanted to bring stuff together um we're seeing the grant landscape change in the last year. You know, there's a
lot of things that are changing that. And so partly, so anyway, that that 1.25 was hoping to get us to a point where we would have the sufficient match so that we could go after some of those grants. So that's why in previous editions,
that's what, you know, that's what we wanted to get to. um you know with with what has changed in the last year now um we don't want this project and the success of it the viability of it to
rely on a grant or not um and so we we still intend to pursue grants as much as possible but we can't we can't rely on that I don't think we can rely on that as much as we were hopeful to um a year
ago. Okay, thank you. >> Ellen, was your question and that previous funding was for the bath house? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Just to be we we had also I think maybe CPA funds went to the ADA the um
the lift a number a couple of few years ago. I think there might have been something for that >> there. The um the relining and the um the gutter system that was a CPA >> the gutter system from a couple of years ago. Yeah. Um >> but the the what's been allocated the
1.25 is been allocate been recommended from CPA approved by town council and is waiting for the project to launch and the project can't launch until it has full funding or close to it. Is that summarizing it, Amy? Okay.
>> Yep. >> Ellen, does that answer your question? >> Y exact question. Thank you. >> Okay, great. Yeah. Um Tim, >> yeah, that was actually my question. that money has not yet been spent, right? The 1.25. >> So that
and whatever balance comes up to a total project cost of what was I don't have the slide in front of the 2.8 or so or what what was the total number to do the B that seems like a big big number to me for redoing a bath house. I don't
understand that why it's so costly. Um so that was that's number one question. And I guess the number two question is uh if the pool the bath house isn't open
the war memorial pool will cease to be available to amber citizens. So any swimming option would be up in the north part of town. Correct. >> Correct. I see Dave has raised his hand. So Dave, I don't know if you want to
speak to either of the questions. Um, and I guess the town question is is what's the value of having two swimming facilities versus one? Uh, what with budget concerns throughout the town? So, okay, that's Thank you.
>> Okay. So, Amy slashdave, if you wish to speak, I'm happy to have you join in. Um I I um it does feel like we need to replay the the tape the tape recordings from tape the uh Zoom recordings from uh
uh previous conversations because these both of these questions have come up. So I think it it'd be useful to do a quick rehash and summary since we're new members etc. Maybe I could I know you have other questions, but maybe a quick recap on that just for the people who are
listening in the audience too because they may or may not have read the proposal that Amy and uh Denise put together, but I just wanted to remind the committee that u the previous iteration of this was actually a $4 million proposal. Um, and we went out
and and and that got some feedback in the community and given all the other capital needs that the town is facing right now, talking with Paul Bachman, our town manager, and and uh some feedback from the town council, uh we went back, as Amy indicated earlier,
with our our our wonderful designers, and really uh redesigned. And and to Tim's earlier point, I I want to mention this is a brand new building. This is not $2.8 million to rehab the existing building.
This would be a a new building hopefully on the east side of War Memorial Pool. That's the preferred location where the the old basketball court is, which is probably as old as the bath house or or thereabouts. Um so it's a new building for 2.8 million. And so we we when we
got the feedback on four million and that was not the Ferrari of bath houses. I can tell you it's just the escalating cost of construction. We went back to the drawing board with our designers with our staff and came up with this
this scaleback version at 2.8 knowing full well we had the 125 at least parked if you will from a previous vote. And um you know that's where that's what brought us to this point is putting that 1.25 together with uh the proposal that
Amy and Denise put together and and here we are with a with a a scaledown version of the building still meeting all the needs of ADA and and uh the pool and and all of that for the next generation of of swimmers.
>> Thank you. Um Bob, >> um Amy and Denise, thank you very much for that. That was a very good presentation and reminds us all why we need a bath house. Uh this is really a question uh for Dave. First of all, I'm
trying to imagine what a Ferrari bath house would look like, but we don't need an explanation of that. Um, why would we not bond a project like this and bundle it together with the um, playground renovation at the other end? Why would
we just not put all that together into a $3 million bond issue and get this taken care of relatively quickly? >> Gia, um, >> Dave, go ahead. >> Um, >> Bob, which play which playground were
you speaking to? So, so we've got we've got the bath house at one end of that section of the recreational area and at the other end we have all the renovations that are going on um up near the old bathroom at the end of the baseball field.
>> Um I'm not familiar with what's going we do we have I don't think we have anything going on there right now. >> Okay, maybe maybe that ship is sailed. I'm sorry. I apologize. My my question remains the same. Um the bond why would
we not run a bond issue for this and sort of take care of it in one fell swoop? What are the pressures there? So that's a great question and I think what normally happens in this process for new members and returning members and for the public is you know as you deliberate
and you'll hear your final proposals next Thursday and then you know we'll take a little downtime for the holidays and new year and whatnot and come back with with renewed energy in January. Typically what happens is staff will meet Leah, myself, uh Amy, Denise, our
rec director, and others. We'll meet with Shawn Mangano, our new finance returning finance director, and then typically CPAC invites Shawn to come and speak to those issues. Bob, if you are inclined to move forward based on your
rating system with the following and I don't want to presuppose what those are and there is not enough >> cash if you will in in the available funds funds uh 2.4 million is about where where I believe that number is. If there isn't available money there some
or all of these larger proposals can be bonded and Sean will speak to our capacity to bond those. It will as as we all know it does limit CPAC in future years because that is a commitment. We typically I believe do 10-year bonds. So
right >> it's a 10-year commitment and that will diminish what is available to future CPAC. So that's coming in January if you're so inclined to move forward with some of these larger uh prop projects.
And just y >> Bob, just so you know, um Leah and I have already anticipated this because of the large numbers and um and have Sean on the agenda for January 15th when we start our deliberation. So we'll have
that information um as Dave described. So that will help us help guide because we don't have enough money obviously and there's some very large requests. So, we want to know what our options are. >> Great. Thanks.
>> Thank you. Um Jonas, >> yes. Hi, Amy. I think you presented this to the recck department, but I um just question about renovation versus uh new build. Had something maybe do the plumbing. I'm just wondering um it could
break down uh the decision to not uh renovate existing which also would maybe allow kind of a phased let's fix this, let's fix this versus going for the new. >> Yeah. I mean renovating sorry renovating
um the existing that is something that that we looked at really carefully because it seems like something that would be a cost savings. Um it does, you know, costwise as we looked at it, it does come in just a little below
um it's it's not really the cost savings that that we thought it could potentially be. Um, and a lot of that is because bringing things up to code, having, you know, the safety, having a, you know, non-binary bathroom, non-binary and, um, family restroom
facility, you know, just like a lot of those things where, um, the current structure. Um, it it's it's not as easy as just redoing the floor and, you know, revamping a couple of things. It you you know, it just it got very big very fast.
Um there's also a couple of issues with the foundation of the building. Um and so certainly there would have to be some work below um as well. Um so it again it got big very big very fast but again depending on the funding we get. Um we
may have to revisit that as an option if we just that has to be that's the only way to move this forward. Um, so >> I guess the other advantage of new, which you touched on, is um if it's close in in price to old, I mean, you
probably rather buy a new car than renovate your old car for durability and kind of um future proofing. um if they're coming in that if there there's not a big major cost savings >> that >> it was yeah it was it was so minimal
that I I can't say 100% that that wouldn't be a discussion um if needed but again we don't want to be perpetuating a a foundation that's in rough shape or you know some of these other things um
and and unfortunately the cost of renovating got pretty big pretty fast. >> Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. I'm just um checking time. This is a large proposal. I'm happy to go a few minutes over, but we have about four or five more minutes. So,
uh Ellen, I think you're up next. >> Thanks. >> Me again. Um I was taking notes, but I think I heard Dave say that the bath house would possibly go where the old basketball court is. Is that correct? And so
>> as we were yeah as we were looking at options um if we were to put in a new bath house um the space that we were looking at it would potentially be on that the side that the basketball courts are currently on. Um that also allows us to um
>> not miss out on a season during operate, you know, during construction. Um but also just kind of opens up the rest of the park in a way that we think would be beneficial in the future. So, >> okay. >> Are there cost implications if you know
moving it to a new place as opposed to building on the existing location? >> There are um there the the utilities don't go to that new place. So, bringing you know water, sewer, electrical over to that new location is a cost. Um,
so yeah, so there are some, but we again we've we've kind of at this point I want to leave every single door open because I want it to move forward. And so, you know, leaving it in the same spot that I'm not going to say that that isn't
100% the choice that would be chosen given on what what funding we can we are able to secure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, Ellen. Um, so Amy, just to just to clarify, you're saying um
you're trying to raise as much money as possible for this to go forward and depending on how much you come up with, you'll you'll all be working to make decisions to fit within that scope. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you, Jason.
>> Thank you. I have a few questions, but the biggest one that I have is Dave mentioned that potentially this can be bonded. Um, but then that would limit future abilities for CPA spending. Um,
given that CPA has already approved 1.25 million for this project, if we were to say we don't want to move forward with this and we think that it should be bonded, one, what happens to that $1.25 $25 million.
Two, why is it bonded then via the like CPA and effect CPA spending? Why isn't this just the town building the town bonding or taking out a loan to build a bath house? Why is this Why is
it then mixed in with CPA funding? >> Dave, I don't know. Yeah, I could I could take a stab, but Dave, I don't know if you want to speak to some of that. >> Sure. Um, >> go ahead, Dave. >> Um, the first part of your question was
about the 1.25 previously allocated, and I apologize to the committee. I didn't take a look at that that that motion and that action by the town council and the previous uh motion or
the previous action of of CPAC. I'm not sure whether that was a vote to bond the 1.25. Maybe Leah knows. Do you know or Amy? >> I don't think it was to bond. >> So, it was actually that was a essentially taking from existing funds.
So, those funds are essentially set aside for this project if it happens. It's not that was not a bonding authorization. >> Yes. So if this project doesn't go forward, Jason, those funds could be
used for other projects. So that was one part of your question. The second part was why doesn't the town just bond this and and take it off of of CPA? Is that did I capture that, Jason?
>> Yeah. Essentially, that's like why is it become a CPA thing? >> Yeah. So that's kind of an age-old question. And I mean CPA was created to fund pro good community projects in the four categories. Um and that's been in
place for you know since about 200 when we we we um approved the CPA back in 2003 or so. So the question always becomes well should this be on the the town capital plan or should this be on a
CPA project? And the two, as I've said before, those two um processes do interface. We often uh fund things partially through CPA, partially through capital, and the joint capital planning
committee often asks the same question. When when a staff member, a department head comes in and says, I would like to do X uh capital project, they say, well, why that's eligible for CPA. why don't you go to CPA and try to get the money there. So, it's not a competition, but
it's it's all of us working together to figure out what what is the best best pathway to to fund these valuable community projects. So, there's no right answer to that. It's just these recreation projects fit nicely uh under
CPAC. Um I'm trying to think of a quick example. Um, there are other projects within conservation, DPW, and recreation where they're on the capital list. They could be funded through CPAC, but we
chose to go that pathway. So, I I think when when Aaron Jock was here, you asked, well, does the somebody asked, does the capital plan fund conservation? And yes, every year, you know, there's 25,000, 50,000, something
like that for bridges and improvements there. So, the capital plan is doing some of the heavy lifting and then CPAC does the rest. >> Yeah. So, as a followup and and that question about the the trails is a good one, you know,
holistically as a town, right? All the taxpayers are paying regardless taxpayers are paying for this one way or the other, right? We're building projects and then we don't seem to be actually planning for their maintenance and what
they're going to actually cost. So coming to CPA is not a guaranteed like you have to ask for the money. It gets reviewed, people make decisions. You don't necessarily get the full amount of money, right? So, like
we're in a position now where we're being asked for money and you know you you all are saying we're going to kind of do whatever we can with the money we get, but then who's going to maintain it? And then in the future, are you going to come and say, "Hey, we need
another million dollars to maintain this or to do this or to do that." But you don't necessarily know if you're going to get it. So, it's a little confusing to me as like where that line is drawn as far as just like, oh, this is bond
this project. Like a three a $4 million bond I got to imagine for the town is not that expensive over 10 years. Or maybe it is. I don't know. But like or or why doesn't this just go out to the tax? like not that we would
necessarily need a 2 and a half% override for this, but like why don't we just put this out to the larger town saying like is this a is this a resource that you want to keep and are you willing to pay for it? >> And I know that's a lot of questions.
Yeah, I was going to say Jason that that these are really good philosophical questions and I think we want to um this could be part of deliberations as opposed to what um we're asking Amy and the presenters about because um yeah I
think they're more philosophical around the CPA funding and sort of you know no matter what who bonds what it's the town bonding it's not us and it's just that CPA would provide the annual payments on that versus where else where would that
if if it was bonded in some other way where would those payments come from? So I but I do think this is a great you know something for um if you you know if it's okay by you we can have bring this up as part of an agenda in deliberations.
>> Yeah. And that's my major thing is like if we if it gets bonded through CPA then it does limit future >> fraud, right? And so it's like where do we draw where does that line get drawn? >> Yeah. And it's it's >> but I'm fine with moving on. >> Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. It is it is limiting or we could look at it
as an asset which is like it does give us the chance to do more than what we can do with cash on hand. So, you know, it's sort of glass half full, glass half empty. You know, it's it is a philosophical um decision. >> Could I add one little tidbit before we
move? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We have two more questions and I know we're over so I want to try to keep us moving. Just to keep everybody thinking that there are certain projects that are eligible for CPA funding. I mentioned before, but like for instance, um the town hall
roof, one of our most historic and iconic buildings, and we talked about that a couple of weeks ago, you know, is eligible because it's a historic building. But if we have another building like on the wastewater treatment plant, I don't know, I was just picking that that roof isn't
eligible for CPA because it's not a historic building. So this is the way you know we kind of navigate through eligibility and fundability and I think they're great they're great questions so we can we can provide more guidance on
that with Sean and and myself and others at future meetings. Amy, you have >> I just little quickly. First of all, Jason, you're absolut 100% one of the things that I often stand on a soap box about is that we get all these great projects
and then ultimately I have to maintain them without a budget that reflects the additional resource. So, thank you for that. But in this case right now, the amount of time and money that my staff, that Denise's staff, that
town hall staff is spending to maintain the facility that we have right now, um it's a lot. And so, at least in this case, um you know, I guess I I I can at least promise that I won't come back for
75 years for another building at Memorial Bath House. Um >> you do you don't need to promise that, Amy. You're you >> folks are welcome to apply. >> Always welcome to apply but your point is well taken about maintenance will >> yeah the maintenance will go down. That's that's my point right now. We're
spending a lot of time >> thank you. >> Yeah >> and Jason thanks for um agreeing to table that for the I do think those are important questions for us to >> talk through. So uh other questions for
Amy um or Denise? Tim you are up. Yeah, that is a question that I had and that is when Sean comes back, if we had the 1.25 25 already in the bank and the CPA approved the total cash amount.
If we if the town took that and this request, added them together, and bonded the total, the annual amount, there's going to be a CPA savings because we aren't going to
be spending the 1.25. we're going to be spending less of a money because it's bonded. And I'd like to see what Sean's numbers show uh about that because I'm assuming we wouldn't just bond this project. We would add the
1.25 and bond the whole thing. Okay. >> Well, I think >> but be able to address that, right? I will I will bring that question in advance to Sean. And I think the >> part that in addition is any other
projects that we might deem have merit that might also need to so we we'll need to talk about in the whole. Thanks for bringing that up. And the other qu the other quick question was if I recall in previous discussions about this this project
will those bathrooms or the house there be available for the public when the pools are closed like the pools are only open in the summer fall soccer spring tennis uh etc etc. Can you can the citizens use that facility year round or
will it be closed or ask another way will only be open when the pool's open? So remember when we were talking about this a year ago and we had a different price tag. So some of the things that we cut back on all of that was there were going
to be bathrooms that were open >> not in the winter. We're not talking about winterizing this building but at least for the season where the ground isn't frozen. Um having exterior bathrooms there. Um, that was one of the
things that got taken out. That being said, there will be we're the design currently shows the bathrooms that are used for the pool could be left open to the public when the pool isn't in
use. Like, you know, like it's people come to the ent, you know, the entrance, you know, pay or check in to go to the pool, go through the bath house, have access to the bathrooms, that sort of thing. So it that's that's the one thing is when the pool is open, they wouldn't
be open for general use, but the the fall and spring um currently that's that's what we intend >> Yeah. is to have that have that available the rest of the season. So >> thanks. Thank you. >> Thanks Amy and Jonas.
>> Yeah. So this is a seems like it's been long in the works. Uh you've you've shown uh it's in demand. uh it's it's used in the town. And so we're looking at this against other proposals to build new um to serve a
demand that we think is there, but it's it's you know, it's we now have something that could be saved um that's proven to be in demand and it needs TLC and some investment. I'm just wondering,
I guess more not a question yet, but um I guess the question is to David. uh what's what's the temperature if you can give us within town council or other committees of like the importance of I mean this is right here we see it um it
seems like it's it's it's a need where where's is there impetus behind that from the town to say like we need we really need to fix this plus it's been a historic asset that might just go
away if if we if Amy's, you know, predictions are true. So, I'm just wondering like was it it feels like an almost game of brinksmanship of like, well, if Amy doesn't get what she needs, eventually that's going to go away, but we'll get the the pickle ball court. And
I just wonder how that all gets worked out among behind closed doors. I guess we'll never know because it's behind closed door. >> No, no, we do. That's a great question. And Dave, you could expand on what you were describing before about um what we
usually ask you to come back to us with sort of a ranked, >> you know, ranking your the projects because there isn't ever almost ever enough money. Sometimes there is, but um >> yeah, >> that's that's one thing that we've asked the town Jonas to help us better
understand. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. just and and I I know Jonas well enough from attending lots of um >> uh rec commission meetings, but no, appreciate the question and you know whether Amy makes a presentation or
Denise or Rey or myself or or or uh somebody from our facilities department, we're all working together. We all care deeply about these projects. So, um you know, just wanted to put that out there. Um yeah, this is this is um this is a
community question, right? I I think Tim mentioned it earlier referred to how much do we value having two uh outdoor public pools and that's the fundamental question here. So I think I don't have a crystal ball. I think uh we'll working with Shawn and other staff, we'll come
to you with with as we always do later in the process as you begin to rank the proposals and and we see where you're going. There may be some that you say, "Well, that's not ready for prime time. Come back next year." And as you get to that point, then we can we can come to
you with with suggestions as to, oh, well, you have enough money to fund the following six, but maybe these three are put together and those could be bonded. If you don't like that, we could come up with another option for you. So, that always happens and we'll look to do that
with you in in January. Um but fundamentally it's going to if you recommend it to the council then it's a whole another process to see whether the council believes that this is an important project to fund either through
bonding or through available uh uh uh cash reserves if you will or uh CPA funds. So, I think that'll play out and and as you've gotten lots of feedback from people who support uh War Memorial, the
council will also get uh feedback on various projects up or down. >> Yeah, I I thanks Dave. I was going to add that. Um Jonas, you'll see that you're getting and will continue to get forwarded letters and emails that we're receiving
um for and against different projects. So that's another way to sort of test how the town, you know, he understand how folks are feeling about it. And Dave just pointed that the town council has the same, you know, they get the same kind of public comment >> to help
>> when back in 2021, pickle ball, I'm quite sure, received more supportive letters to you and the council than any other CPA pro uh project in in the history of us having the CPA. People very deeply about pickle ball. So >> yeah, we we're inundated with which is
great. I mean that's it is one way for us to hear from folks. So that was helpful. All right. Well, I think Amy and Denise, thank you so much for your presentation, for your work. We really appreciate it. Appreciate you. >> You.
>> Yeah. Thanks for being here. >> Wow. Great questions everyone and food for thought. I have a couple of items here for me to move forward on the agenda around um you know some of Jason's questions but also uh Tim's
question around the bonding piece and so I'll follow up with that. Um anything anything else from committee members? I want to thank the attendees who've stuck with us and uh continue to
participate in that way and those who watching the recording um we can move on to the topics the chair did not reasonably anticipate of which there are none at the moment. So barring any other I don't see any hands. Oh yes I do. Hi Ellen.
>> No I um I just want to apologize for being unprepared with my edit to the minutes. Uh it's not like me, but >> um anyway, I I did find them and um it was simply that a statement was um
credited or a statement by either Robin or Liz Larson was attributed to me. So it's not that the statement is wrong, it's just who said it. So >> okay, >> I think it's it's fine. And apologies again that no apologies necessary. And
um yeah, Bob, go ahead. Hi. Well, I'll I'll still amend it, Ellen. Anyway. >> Oh, okay. Yeah, it's in the Simeon Strong um the strong house proposal. I think it was Liz Larson who said um
that it it reads currently Ellen noted all funds for the 1.5 million renovation of the house require matches from the state, I think. >> Right. Okay. Good. Good. No, that's good. Valuable pickup. I'll change that. >> I think it was Liz Larson or Robin and
Robin. >> Right. >> I think it was Robin. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Sorry. >> No problem. We want to be accurate in our minutes.
Great. Well, seeing no other hands raised, I would take a motion to adjourn the meeting. So moved. >> Thank you, Robin. And a second. >> Second.
>> Thank you, Ellen. All those in favor, just you can unmute. >> I >> I >> I don't think we need that. Anyway, thank you, Dave. Thank you, Leah. Really appreciate your time. Appreciate all your support. And thanks to everybody for your time tonight.
>> What a surprise. We're ending early. Take care everybody. >> Okay. Come.