Okay, we're recording. Please go ahead. Okay. Good evening. Uh, it's April 28th, 2025, and this is a regular meeting of the town council. Chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extended through June 30th, 2027, the ability of public bodies to
meet in a fully remote or hybrid manner. This law allows us to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the council physically present at a meeting location. This meeting is accessible in real time by Zoom, by phone, and as a live broadcast on
Ammerst Media Channel 9 and live stream. There are seven counselors in the town room tonight and others online. Please be advised that this meeting is being held in person and that the remote access option is provided as
a courtesy only. In the event of a technology issues with the remote connection, the meeting will continue in person as scheduled such that members of the public are encouraged to attend the meeting in its physical location if possible. Given that we have a quorum of
the council present, I'm calling the April 28th regular town council meeting to order at [Music] 6:31. I'll call upon counselors by the name they have indicated they would like to be addressed. At that time, please
unmute your mic and say present. This will indicate that we can hear you and you can hear us. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Um the first person is Patangelus. is absent. Anna Delin Gothier present.
Councelor Ete present. Lyn Griemer is present. Councelor Hanaki present. Bob Hagner present. Councelor Lord present. Thank you. Pam Rooney here. Councelor
Ryan present. Kathy Shane I'm here. Andy Steinberg present. Jennifer Tob here. and we are expecting councelor Walker but not till around 7:00. There is no chat room for this meeting. If counselors have technical
issues, please let Athena and me know. To make a comment, please use the um raise hand button. Um right now the order of the agenda is as published. There is one general
comment period during this meeting under announcements. I just want to call attention to the fact that we do have a regular town council meeting on the 5th at 6:30 and on May 12th the finance committee will hold the public hearing
on the proposed budget and including the regional school budget that will also be at 6:30. This is a committee of the whole. Um we have several meetings coming up. Community resources meets on May 8th at 3. Finance begins its intense
review of the budget and meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 2 and 9 at 2 o'clock PM and 9:00 a.m. respectively. G meets again on the 13th at 6:30 and TSO
um town services and outreach meets on May 1st at 10:00. Um I want to remind people that this is the time of year that we recruit committees. Please go to the town website and you'll be able to see the various committees that have seats that
are vacant. And even if one you'd like to be on doesn't show up, apply anyway. Um we also want to make sure that you know there are seats for town council uh committees that we appoint and those are planning board, zoning board of appeals,
the finance committee and we are looking for one member for the uh charter review committee. Um when you the sustainability festival was rained out on Saturday and is
rescheduled now for Saturday the 10th from 10:00 to 4:00 on the town common. There's no hearings tonight. So we will move to general public comment. If you are in the room of the town you would like and you would like to make
general public comment, please make sure you have signed up with Athena over here. If you are in the audience on Zoom and you would like to make public comment, please raise your hand at this time. Athena, how many people have signed up?
One. Okay. And there is one on Zoom. And so, um, anyone wishing to speak, um, public comments or a matter, uh, within the jurisdiction of the town council. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three
minutes. The council will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during general public comment. Public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the town council. Please make sure that you pay attention to the clock. It will go off at one point. Um,
the first amendment broadly protects individual rights to address the government, to speak, and to express themselves, including their right to say hateful and offensive things. I am generally unable to shut those comments down under the first amendment to the US Constitution unless their level of
speech falls within an exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words threat true threats to a particular individual, harassment of a particular individual or incitement of eminent lawlessness activity. If a
question arises as to whether a particular speaker is engaged in unappro unprotected speech, I must defer to the principles of the pre freedom of speech. We'll recognize uh people in order that they have signed up. We'll start with
the people in the room. Ben O' [Music] Conor. Sorry. I May I please see the clock? Okay, I'm trying to untangle and make
sure. Are you okay? Make sure the green light is on. It is. Yes. Okay. Good evening. I'm Vincent O' Conor, 175 Summer Street, Apartment 12 in District 1. As some of you may know, I have begun
the process of submitting this council's April 14th decision not to resend the appropriations for the proposed Jones Library demolition expansion project to the voters. However, after reading last week's uh Wednesday Daily Hampshire
Gazette story about Mr. leaves letter and a Jones project bid protest and then reading in the Ammeris Diny that the manager had at the council's April 6th meeting concealed from the public and however many council members the fact
that he had already on April 4th signed a contract with the Jones project general low bidder. I put aside the petitions. It is one thing for the library director and the elected library trustees to withhold during the late
late 2023 and early 2024 information from the council that the Jones library project would not be eligible for approximately 2 million in tax credit. The library director is not a town employee and library trustees are
elected officials, but the manager is your employee and he has at least a three-year history of providing false and misleading oral and annual budget information to the council, Ammeris residents, both Ammeris school districts
in our partner towns in the regional school district. Enough is enough. I therefore urge the council to vote to suspend the manager with pay for a sufficient time for the council to arrange for his orderly departure. I
also suggest that any counselor who participated in the April April 14th discussion of the library project knowing but not disclosing that the manager had already signed on with the low bidding contractor should write out a letter of resignation handed to the
council clerk and walk out of this meeting now. The council's toleration of these repeated Jones Library project falsehoods by concealment clearly goes beyond this project to the integrity and
viability of the council itself. If it turns out that the library project is also about an outstanding CVS parking lot eminent domain authorization or the sale of the central fire station for another five-story UMass dormatory, then
we should all prepare to see some prominent participations and participants end up in court. Maria Capeki, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Thank you. Maria Capiki, South Ammerst.
I am also speaking about the library project. Um, for those of you if you haven't if you don't didn't know, there was a bid protest and in the course of that bid protest, there was a letter written by KP Law for the town and it
said, I quote, "On April 4, 2025, following execution of the MOA, the town awarded the general contract to Fontaine." That was April 4th. Now, what exactly that means, um, I'm
trying to find out. I did submit a record request for which I have received no answer. I'm trying to find the document that this refers to. I do know that in the rest of the letter from the uh, town's attorney, they talk about
executing a contract, not signing a contract. So, I mean, unfortunately, you guys are a bit of an incurious lot and you have a tendency not to demand answers to questions. So, I'm going to I'll help
you here. Paul, what did you do on April 4th? Lynn, what did you know on April 4th? the rest of you. Who else on the council on library trustees in the library campaign and the capital
campaign? What did everybody else know about April 4th that was not shared on April 14th when you had a meeting to talk about rescending the borrowing? What I
mean was that just uh you know a farce? what was what was going on. I really hope that you as counselors demand answers to what is going on, what happened, who knew what and when, and
why on earth was this information not shared with you? You were making a a substantive decision, or at least you thought you were. The only thing I'm certain about is that three of you did
not know what was going on. That was counselor Rooney, counselor Tub, and Counselor Walker. The three people who had the courage to say this is a bad idea. Everybody else, I don't know.
Please tell us and document it. Thank you. Is there anybody else in the room? No. Um, Arley has raised her hand. I'm going to allow it and then that will be the end of public comment. Arley, please enter the room. State your name and
where you live. Um, hi, good evening. Arley Gould, South Ammerst. Um, since the last meeting of April 14th, I was thinking
that first I found it very interesting that the town council had to call a special meeting and make a motion to resend the borrowing for the library in order for the town manager and his staff to do their job.
It seemed like they had to be threatened in order to provide the information that the town council had been asking for, it seems like for weeks or even months. So, I I hope that that doesn't have to keep happening when the town
council asks for information if we could get it without having to do this whole drama that unfolded. Um but at that meeting um it was interesting that councilors
Shane and Hegner voted against their own motion. I'm not sure what they heard. Um what I heard basically was we won't go over
46.1 and we have great fundraisers so everything will be okay. Um, the facts are still the facts about the economics of this project. And lastly, I'll just say, you
know, I hope for all you people who are voting for it and everything that this works out. uh because when that wrecking ball, you know, hits that building and we are
committed to it, if the money runs out, are you really not going to approve any more money once we have this big hole in this building? Um, you know, you can say nice words now, but it's the
real test is going to be if this really does fall through economically and we have a building that's basically half done. So hopefully that's doesn't come to that. Thank you.
That concludes public comment. We're moving to the consent agenda. The follow following items were selected because they were considered to be routine and it was reasonable to expect they would pass with no controversy. To remove an item from the consent agenda for
discussion later in the meeting, ask that it be removed when the president lists the consent agenda items. The request to remove does not require a second to Okay. And so I'm looking for a second
to the following motion to move the following items into the printed motions thereafter and approve those items as a single unit. 6A adoption of the 2025 Jewish American Heritage Month
Proclamation. 8 C referral of FY26 water and sewer rates and amendments to water and sewer regulations. 8F, approval of long-term public way request, mobile market. 11 A, approval of minutes, April
7th, 2025 regular meeting. Second. Thank you. Are there any Okay, we're going to move then to a vote. Um, Anna Devlin Gothier I.
Councilor Rete I. Lyn Griezmer I. Councelor Hani. Hi. Bob Hegner. Yes. Councelor Lord. Hi. Pam Rooney. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi. Kathy Shame. Yes.
Andy Steinberg. Hi. Jennifer Tob. Yes. Councelor Walker is going to join us later. Okay. Uh, is there anybody that is going to have questions about the referred rates on the water and
sewer? Are there any counselors? Kathy, you will. Yes. Okay. Then I'm going to move that it's a it's one question, but I want to give them time to consider so when they come to finance
that they can answer it. Got it. Thank you. Uh so in that case uh given pressures of time I'm going to ask Amy Reeki who is the assistant uh director of the department of public works to
join us and um hi Amy. Um Kathy please proceed with your question. Hi Amy, sorry to keep you. Um uh a couple years ago it may have even been three. We talked about an option that
would have, and I'm not going to say this quite right, but take into account the diameter of the pipe coming into a building where very large users have much larger diameters to increase the rate on that because it would contribute
to sustaining fixed costs. And so my question is, I know that's not in the current rates. My question is, was that discarded? Are we still we were looking for some analysis of it and for everyone to understand is right now if if we use
less water we pay more for each drop of water because we have to cover everything. So conservation doesn't necessarily drive down the rate but the pipe that comes in um and supplies the water. So UMass Ammeris College large
buildings needs to be larger than what we have coming into our homes. And that's one way of covering the fixed costs which is why the rates are. So my question you don't have to answer it right now but I'd like to to talk about that again when this comes to finance.
Okay. Did you want to say anything? And now Amy, no, I can just I think that's a good it's it's certainly been something that's been discussed and so thank you Kathy for um giving us a preview so we can dive
into that a little more during FINCOM. Thank you. Are there any other questions from counselors that you'd like to alert Amy to? Okay. So then when we get to item 8 C, we will have already addressed that item. Okay. Um we're going to the
proclamation reading. Jennifer Tob, please read the last portions of the proclamation. I thought I'd read the first and the last. They kind of went together. Nine. So whereas on April 20th, 2006, after resolutions um Yeah, I'm
sorry. Whereas on April 20th, 2006, after resolutions passed unanimously in both houses of Congress, President George W. Bush proclaimed that May would be Jewish American Heritage Month to recognize the more than 350 year history
of Jewish contributions to the United States of America and American culture. Now therefore, we the Ammerst Town Council do hereby proclaim the month of May to be Jewish American Heritage Month in the town of Ammerst and encourage all to celebrate the history and
contributions of Jewish Americans to our culture and society. Thank you. Thank you. Um we're going to then go to action item 8A which is the Ammeris Pelum Regional School debt authorization. Let
me just say while it's not required that we take a vote vote on this, it is the practice of this council to do so. So I'm going to read a motion uh to adopt approval order FY26-03, an order approving the Ammerst
Pelum Regional School District debt authorization for FY2026 as shown on page seven of the motion sheet. Is there a second? Second. Are there any questions or comments? Uh Kathy, this came to finance. Did you
want to comment? No. Okay. All right, then we'll move to a vote. Councelor Ete I. L G Reese Merson I. Councelor Hani. Hi. Bob Haggner. Yes. Councelor Lord. Hi. Pam
Renie. Yes. Councelor Ryan. Hi Kathy Shane. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Hi Jennifer Tob. Yes. [Music] And Anna Delin Gothier. Hi.
Thank you. The next item on our agenda is the Amoris Black Reparations Committee charge. Uh I'm going to uh recognize that Michelle Miller is in the audience should there be questions. And at some
point we may be joined by Dr. Amakar Sherbaz. Anna uh you are chair of G. Please introduce this. Thank you. So G uh if folks remember had brought a charge forward for the uh for the
successor body to the African Heritage Reparation Assembly. Um and it was sent back to go with a lot of comments. Um, some of that was due to the fact that there had been counselor comments submitted a term ago that had never gotten back to this this iteration of go
that was working on the new charge. So, we had missed a lot of the feedback that people had taken the time to give. So, go to um took a few meetings to look through that feedback, revisit the charge uh and taking that feedback into account made some edits to the charge that's in front of you today. You can
see the markedup version. Um, and I'm happy to discuss the the wise of each kind of decision that we did or did not accept from the um from the suggestions that were put in. But ultimately, this was a um I thought a really good
discussion from go and I want to thank also Dr. Shabbaz and Michelle Miller for joining us there. Um really this this committee is going to kind of have two phases of work, right? It's one phase is setting up the um the process that will
then be followed by phase two which is the going of the process. It's not the right word. Um the the executing of the process. There we go. So, uh what you'll see before you is the updated charge. Um if any other go members would like to
speak to our discussion, you're welcome to. But really what we did is comment by comment went through uh discussed each one and made the edits as we as a committee felt appropriate. Um so with that I'll make a motion and
then seek comments and questions uh to adopt the black reparations the ammeris black reparations committee charge as presented. Uh Pam Rooney. Wait, do you need a second? I second it.
Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Uh, thank you. Sorry. Um, I really appreciated the work that went into this. This version is a much fuller one than we saw originally and clearly has a lot more of the meat that
that the committee will go into. I wondered in the funding section if there is, you know, in a in a fairly quick read, um, is there any way to add something like and to accept, uh, contributions from and gifts just like
we do in in so many other, uh, arenas where we have a a trust fund or something that can accept gifts? That's the question. It's a great question. It's not something necessarily that's currently written in there. It's something the committee could possibly write into
their um their own written guidelines, but you're correct that that is not currently written into into that. And and would that need would that need council approval to allow them to do it? I would I would hope not. But but is
that is that a required step? I don't know the answer to that. I know that there have been other committees that have accepted gifts or grants without having council approval. Um, I'm I'm gonna shout out the dog park task force for as an example of that, but I I'm not sure if uh if this one I don't know if
Paul if you've got a thought on that or Athena, I don't know who would know this answer. Yeah. So if it's a if it's a restricted gift, it has to go for that purpose and it would be kept be kept uh
by the comproller in a gift account and could only be spent for the purpose that was designated by the gift. Great. But we wouldn't have to specify that it's allowed. Typically, we just receive the gifts and goes into an account. Thank you.
Okay, councelor Hani. Thank you. Um I have a number of questions. [Music] Um I'd like some information on why the term of appointment is two years, not the typical three. Um that almost all of
our committees are including the model committees of CPA and CDBG. Um the following the composition has six areas um but leaves out anything related to economic development or
entrepreneurship or anything like that which is an original AH priority area um yet keeps in climate action that doesn't necessarily relate to any of the original priority areas. So I'd like
some response on why anything related to business development or entrepreneurship experience was left out and why climate action was put in and then prior membership on the AH. Um at some point that bullet becomes
completely outdated. Um so at what point does it become outdated? At what point does this council or the manager say or decide um that is no longer a logical um
experience to have? Um and should the council amend the charge to say something like for appointments before X date before that particular bullet point. Um the purpose says mission is to
implement reparations but the only items in the charge all the only things in the charge area relate to um expenditure of reparations stabilization funds. So I'm unsure what
that whole sentence um includes given the charge that follows. Um so what are they to do beyond the funding um recommend
recommending spending to uh the council for the reparations stabilization fund that is implementing reparations. Um in that vein also the reports include working on pursuing reparative projects but there is nothing in the charge that
has them working on pursuing reparative projects. So I don't know what the intent of reporting on that is when the charge does not in particular state that they are allowed to work on reparative
projects. Um and then there's one minor change in the funding section on the second bullet. The third bullet talks about um support from the reparation stabilization fund. I believe there's
some other references in the charge itself, the full charge that talk about support from the reparation stabilization fund. But the second bullet has receiving allocations from the reparation stabilization fund. It's the only time that you you talk about
allocations, not support or expenditures. So, it doesn't seem quite consistent um in terms of its wording there. Uh those are my comments at this time. Okay. Um shall I go I'm going to go on
to other comments. Um Anna, uh that's fine. I'll just have a lot of responses at the end unless you I'm I'm trying to take notes, so it's up to you if you want me to respond now or later. I'm going to have you start. Go ahead. So um and and please know I'm going to try to
tackle this and then I will look to other members of go to um support me in in responding as well. So I guess that's Lynn and uh oh councelor Lord is here too. Lynn, councelor Lord and councelor ete. So the first question composition has six areas but no economic
development. you know this initially um we had seen a proposal to change this to include members from other committees um and so we felt that our committees are already uh very burdened and we're
seeing a challenge to fill committees. So to add on another very labor intensive committee um to to folks who are already on a say the recreation commission or or one of the other commission committees um felt like we
were t taxing groups much. Um and so we sought to look at the areas with that were being addressed in those proposed committee because of that economic event. So we that is not on here. Um it
could be added absolutely. I'm seeing that my internet connection is unstable. So I'm going to turn my camera off but keep talking. So that uh that's my response to number one. Um no problem to add that. I I think that I'd be happy to see a motion in to add that. The second
one, uh, in terms of prior membership on the AHA, um, you're right that at some point that does become outdated, but I would rather have the charge say that this charge shall be revisited in X number of years than to have it overly complicated in
the uh in that section of the charge to say four appointments made before XYZ. That feels like it might be um just kind of needlessly comp complex. Uh, and I feel like we we want to revisit these charges anyway, especially as this work gets going because for this committee in
particular, the work in the first few years is going to look different than the work in years, you know, 10 through 15. So, um, I think it would be reasonable to put into this charge that it shall be revisited. Uh, and, you know, I do think that prior membership on AHA is particularly helpful in those
first few years, which is why that uh, I don't just believe that the committee discussed that. Um and then your other point, I don't know which number we're at, but uh one of your other points was what do they do beyond spending uh spending funds that is implementing reparations if we
reference it in other areas. Um and one of the things that we talk about in the priority areas is discussing the make recommendations to the town council on three to five priority areas. um for support from the fund, but it also
includes other that the the next bullet protect I don't know. I guess I could argue it either way. I mean, if you wanted us to if you wanted to make a motion to specify and add a bullet under priority areas that says, you know, present recommended priority areas that do not include expenditures of funds,
just to make it really clear. Um, we could do that. But, uh, the the first section on priority areas, I think was what we discussed was intended to be broad enough to kind of collect ideas
that may not specifically pertain to expenditures of funds. Um, and then I think that's it for now. Uh, point of order. Councelor Walker has joined us. Could we please confirm that she can hear us? Yes. Uh, Councelor
Hawker, can you hear us? Yes, I can. Thank you, Lynn. Thank you and welcome. Um, the record should show that Councelor Walker joined us at 70:02. Uh, we're going to go to Andy Steinberg. I'm sorry. Uh, councelor Ete,
did you want to comment on some of the things that Um, I'm sorry. Go ahead then, please. I'm sorry, Andy. Hold on. Um, so I just wanted to say we didn't have a sustained discussion on the length
of a tenure. So that's something that we could have now. Okay. Thank you. Uh Andy, so I had one issue uh that is something that I have observed with the U CPA
committee in prior years and uh CPA process which is mentioned in the funding section is sort of a model for what is happening here. So I think caused me when I read that to think
about the same issue and that is if there are programs that are being funded from a source and they're going to continue for successive years whether automatically or by decision of the
committee on an annual basis. It seems to me that there should be a process for evaluation before making that decision. And um I would have thought of and I
apologize that I didn't say this earlier because I didn't catch it till my review for this final uh reading before voting that it could have said in the funding section something to the um like
an additional bullet um charging the committee with evaluating annually the success of previously funded reparation programs. And then in the uh section on
the next page under reports um having an additional bullet evaluation of programs receiving reparation funds. So I was wondering
uh committee consider that as a uh addition to consider. Anna, did you want to respond to that? Sure. Andy, I I you're welcome to make that as a motion if you have the specific language, but I would also
argue that the things you're talking about could be uh items that this committee writes into those guidelines and processes that they are uh of written guidelines in that second bullet under funding that they're supposed to create. So, uh, either way, you're
welcome to obviously always make a motion with that language to add or, um, I would argue that it could be considered under uh that that's something the committee should consider when they create those written guidelines. And I do have one question,
Andy. When you say evaluate annually, if you only mean if it's going to be continued to be funded. I think that would be right. My assumption is that there will be some programs, a fair number of programs
which if successful that it will be the desire of the uh program whoever is uh running administering the program and of the committee to continue those programs and
I think that's would be an entirely appropriate decision to make if the program is successful. uh but somebody has to make the determination that the program is successful and as a funding entity I
think the committee bears that responsibility and uh as far as you know whether uh it's in the charge or not I think the advantage of having it in charge is that the
council in in authorizing committee would say this is things that we expect the committee to do not just to assume success but to actually make a determination that there is success.
Okay. Thank you Kathy. Um I I want to second Mandy's urging to make this a three-year rather than two-year appointment. I think particularly in the when this committee gets going, it's going to take them a
few years to figure out the list of what is being established here with guidelines in the budget section. Um, and Anna, I don't have specific wording, but I I think there should be consideration. So it might be worded on
decide whether this is going to be an annual process or a bianial meaning every other every other year two years because you may want to uh uh be able to have a bigger pot of money than you
would have if it's annual. Um and so at least alert the committee that that's a decision to make whether it's annual or bianual in terms of aotment. And then I would add a bullet to say determine a budget. You know, the in theory the
committee could spend the whole amount in year one and then just wait for additional accumulation, but I think they're going to have to determine a budget whether it's an annual budget or a bianial budget. And that dis that
enforces discipline when you get proposals coming in that if you have a h 100,000 to spend or 200,000 to spend. Um people understand that's the total amount of money that you have to spend and that's certainly what CPA has and
what the community development block grant has. So people know at the beginning this is how much we've got. So you don't get proposals for $500,000. So I would add two things under the funding is decide whether this is annual or bianual and determine a
budget. Okay. Um um Lynn, can I can I please? Um Kathy, I hear that you don't have the specific wording to make a motion right now, but I I don't either. Um so I would encourage you to determine what that wording would be, whether you pitch it
now as an amendment or whether it goes to the committee. uh specific wording would be helpful. Thank you. Well, if what I just said I think would be my best specific my wording would be under the funding is decide whether it's going
to be an annual uh process or a bianial process would be an additional bullet under funding and determine a budget. I would is that were you making that as a motion or uh you want me I will make a motion to add two bullets but if you
want me to do it that way but basically that's what I'd like to add. So if we want to come back to amendments. Yeah. I want to hear um the rest of it and then we'll decide whether or not we're going to do amendments or or have the committee take these recommendations.
George Ryan I mean sorry councelor Ryan. So just trying to get some clarity around the purpose language. So in the purpose section and this just be my confusion about what the purpose of this body is which is why I'd like the language to be as clear as possible.
Currently, the document reads, "ABRC's mission is to implement reparations, comma, as supported by international human rights standards, comma, in Ammeris for harms caused by support of slavery and post reconstruction discrimination by the
town, residents, businesses, and other Ammerst associated entities." I find that language a little bit difficult. Um, I don't know what international human rights standards actually means here. Um, but my real concern is about the beginning where it
says its mission is to implement reparations. And again, it may be my confusion about what this body is being charged to do. But in reading this document and my understanding through this whole process is that its mission is to provide support and advice to the town council and town manager in
addressing the harms caused by etc etc. So my understanding is its goal is to provide support and advice to us as we address this issue. What am I missing? Because I mean that's the language I would like to see here. But perhaps there's something in
this document that uh would suggest that that's not the right language. But I just find the current language very difficult to understand. And I would suggest that its mission as I understand it is to provide support and advice. and we are the ones who will implement these
actions long overdue. Um, so that's my thought. Okay, Anna, did you want to address that? You're muted. You're muted, Anna. I never do that. Okay. Um, the Okay, I sometimes do that. So, George, to your I
I disagree with your premise. Um, I don't think that this group's mission is just to provide support and advice. This group is tasked with determining how to uh recommend expenditure of funds. Um, and so from the reparations
stabilization fund um as per this this charge, right? And so the way that go discussed this was we we were thinking about it in a similar way to how CPA operates. um CPA is providing specific recommendations on expenditures of funds
that is more than just providing um I think what you support and advice. So uh that I do see this as implementing reparations through the re I guess if you wanted to make it a bit more clear
if that makes you feel better. I'm happy to hear recommended language. um if you've got it on how to kind of clarify that the council ultimately is the is the approver of fund expenditures and throughout the document um go talked a
lot about making sure it's really clear that the council is the ultimate group that is um uh approving the the recommended priority areas and assessment of feasibility
um and making and that they are making recommendations to the council for funding support, but I do see those as implementing uh reparations in in that specific way. Um, so I don't see this I think the words sorry I keep losing my notes where
you wrote it. Uh, the support and advice feels too small for what this group is is doing, which is making recommendations for expenditures of funds and those priority areas. Um, I don't know if other go folks have thoughts on that. Um, we did have a lot
of discussion about the first part of your comment. We also were not clear, um, at first specifically what international human rights standards were being referred to. Um, we found it and we did discuss that. Um, but it it's
something that I believe the initial proposal when that was written in was to ground this in something bigger than just Ammerst. Uh and so that was why that was that was put in there was that this is not just something Ammerst is navigating. Um this is
something that is uh supported by international human rights standards. Um so it's it was both. Um and that was why that was put in there on the on the recommendations of other counselors as well. I don't know if that really answered your question, George, but ultimately this
group is doing more than support and advice. um they're making recommendations for funding expenditures and other projects if those projects go beyond just funding. Councelor
atte that that first purpose is written. Um I'm going to hear the rest of the comments before I comment on that. Uh I'm going to skip to Jennifer uh because she's not spoken yet. Um so I have a question. to understand how the process is going to work from the committee to the
council. So if I'm understanding correctly that there's an office at the state level that has to approve the expenditures of funds if I'm wrong. Is that not correct? Do you mean for are you talking about CPA as a
reference because No, I thought it was something particular with reparations that or is that's okay. So we so the committee can recommend to the council, the council can approve and the funds can be dispersed. The main thing is that it has to be legal and in that case it's
something that has to be um vetted by our lawyers as to whether or not it is legal to spend money in this fund for the whatever purpose. So it's just our our council. It's our council. It's not
the states. Right. Thank you. Paul, did you want to add to that? Yeah. So, state law does control what towns can expect funds for and so we have to be in compliance with state law and state law says there's the there's you anti-aid amendment things like that.
We can't just give money to people unless there's a reason for it. Um and also we have to comply with procurement laws and so there's a number of laws that we have before the town issues a check we have to ensure that we've complied with all the laws. That's a legal expenditure that's complied with process the procedures. Mhm. So that
will happen at the council level, not at the committee level. That that we would check with. Yeah. So there would have to be some validity of the expenditure once it's requested. Right. Okay. Uh councelor Heni.
So I have a big motion that encompasses a lot of what was just said if we're doing motions tonight. Anna kept saying she wanted language. I could make it all as separate motions or I can make it as all one big motion. And Athena, I've been working on putting it in the
document. I fear when I save it, it will include Lynn's tracked changes and look the same because I haven't gotten to that setting yet. My my setting on my computer is combine it all as one. So, I haven't sent it to you yet, but um Okay.
Um, I don't know whether the council wants a motion to amend that's big or not or whether it would just prefer it be referred back to go. Okay, let me hold on for that a moment. Uh, Anna, did you have a comment? Well, my comment was
was to what Mandy said. I think the council can decide. I either way is fine, but it is more if it gets referred back to go. I am still going to ask for specific motions um or specific wording because it's really not been fruitful at
go to talk about broad concepts and it gets a little frustrating. I'll just candidly say as chair. So, uh I will whether I I'm not advocating for this to either be moved fully in this council tonight or going back to go. I'm actually fine either way. But either
way, uh I would humbly request that everything be put into uh the specific wording that people would like to see. Um either as track changes or give me a a text blob that I will cut and paste in for the committee to discuss. Um I think
it's it's I'll stop there. Um did you um Andy? Yes. following up. Chair I would Oh, Andy, you lost your button. I can't hear you.
I said, um, I would prefer I I Anna's thanking for uh what you just offered and would suggest that we refer it back to the
committee and I think that the request that you made is absolutely reasonable and correct that uh those of us who have raised questions uh should provide propos proposed
language. It is it would be proposed language and it would be up to the committee to determine whether it is appropriate and appropriately worded or should be rejected altogether. Um, those
are decisions that I think the committee is better situated to make in a more efficient manner than having the uh council do it as a committee at the whole. Um, thank you Andy. Um, I'm going to
just um make one or two comments and then [Music] um I may withdraw the motion and seek to second on that. Um, one of the things that has risen in this conversation and I still think is not clear for all of us
and that is is this a committee that is going to do more than oversee the expenditure of funds oversee recommendations to the council for the expenditure of funds from the reparation
stabilization fund. Are they actually going to come to us with other things that have nothing to do with the fund? And because that I think impacts particularly that first sentence that
two counselors have spoken to and it impacts the work of the committee at a serious level. Councelor Hani. Um I agree we need to have that conversation. Um or maybe go needs to
have it and make a recommendation. Um I am going to move to refer back to go. I'll second. So the motion's I I'm also going to withdraw the other one. And I believe Jennifer did you don't need to withdraw. I don't need to withdraw it. Okay, fine.
Thank you. So, referring back to um and it's been made and seconded. Are there other comments before we move to a vote about feedback to go? Uh, councelor Ete.
So, I'm wondering I'm still I'm trying to wrap my head around this. We haven't completely figured out what the purpose of the committee is. Isn't that a discussion that should be had by
the council and not Joel? I I personally believe it should be. Yes, George. I mean, councelor Ryan. Well, that was exactly what I was going to ask. that my understanding and this is just me speaking u based on our discussions
in the past is that this is a body that provides support and advice. Um but maybe that needs to be corrected. Maybe I have a misunderstanding and so I'm all ears to hear. We already heard from the chair of the committee. Maybe some of the other members of the committee will speak up. Um but um I do not see this
body as having other tasks. Um, and if they are, they should be spelled out. And I think the purpose language should be very clear. Um, so I think we need to I need to hear from people what they think that they think this body is supposed to be doing. Okay.
Um, I think it would be important for us to spend a little time on that before we do the motion to refer. Uh, councelor Hanniki. Um, I agree with George. I think at this time its mission is making recommendations regarding the reparation
stabilization fund expenditures. Um once that's under place maybe its charge can expand and we can think about that once we know what's going on with the reparations stabilization fund.
right now even spending money out of that fund is so um unsure of the legality that that's I think where the focus needs to be if we want to start spending money out of that fund and that's what this committee
should be focusing on and once those things are figured out then maybe we revisit whether to expand into something else. Are there any other comments from counselors on this particular issue or any other issue? George, you still have
your hand up? That's okay. Anna, go ahead, please. Should this go back to go, which again, not a problem. Uh, I would just like to give folks a deadline for for that feed for that specific feedback. Um, go is not meeting again
until uh May 13th. So, I would ask that feedback be given by uh Wednesday the 7th so that I can get it to the committee in time to review. Thank you, Anna. Are there any in the form of track changes or exact language,
please? Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? uh council atte. Okay. And in that case, I think to reiterate what has been said, it would be helpful
to have language that is specific that we could have a discussion about in July it is looking for from the AB housing. Okay. Uh Kathy
um my my only question is about process. I did do I I found the word document. I've entered specific language. If I send it can I send it to the whole committee? Do I have to send it to Anna? Send it to Please send it to me and to
to Anna and to um Athena. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I have spoken already to these but that's fine. Okay. It's it's still better to just go to one counselor so we don't get into the issue. Okay. Are there any other questions or comments? Anna has
graciously asked for any comments to be sent to her by next Wednesday. And um we are going to move then to the vote to refer back. Uh we begin with councelor ete I. Lyn Grie is an I. Councelor Hani
I. Bob Hegner. Yes. Councelor Lord, I. Pam Rooney, yes. Councelor Ryan, hi. Kathy Shane, yes. Andy Steinberg, I. Jennifer Tob,
yes. Councelor Walker, yes. Patel is absent. Uh, Anna Develin Gothier. Hi. Thank you. Um, we've already done item C. And we have a carryover item which is
item D. It's the proposed fiscal stabilization and planning task force. It was carried over from March 24th and April 7th. This was introduced by councelor uh an Anna Develin Gothier and I just want to recognize the regional
school committee chair Sarah Bess Kenny is in the room. Anna, thanks Lynn. I'm wondering if it makes sense to discuss the next item on the agenda first before coming to this one. uh because or I think it's next on the agenda if I'm looking at the right
item if to discuss 8E um prior to this because I think that discussion will impact whether or not this committee is still necessary. Okay. Is that if that's acceptable to you? Is there any objection to that?
Okay. Then we're going to move on to 8E. 8E is a memo and a proposed four towns fiscal stabiliz sustainability task force. In many many ways it has the same purpose. Um this was a u proposal
submitted by myself and as and Kathy uh Shane. The proposal uh was developed through a process of talking to various people from the select boards and the finance committees of other towns. Uh
none of them are coming forward with any endorsements. I did not ask for that. Uh I asked for input and um in addition to that I also did the same with the chair of our school committee for Ammerst and
for the regional school committee. And again, it's not an endorsement, but looking for feedback. It would have been serious seriously my preference to do this with the entire council, but we can't do that. So, the only way to get feedback
is to in fact bring it to a council meeting, and that's what we're seeking tonight. If it would be useful, I'll be glad to go through this with a little more clarity. Uh, but I also don't want to take up people's time when you've had
an opportunity to read this since Thursday. So, councelor Hani. So, I have a lot of thoughts, but I'm going to start with one of the overarching thoughts that I had in reading all of this. Um, which
is why can't four towns meetings do it? In much of what was listed here, I thought I I found myself wondering, well, isn't that what Four Towns is supposed to be an avenue for? Um, including common understandings of the four
municipalities fiscal struggles, what their revenue struggles are. To me, that's what four towns is meant to be. um what their expenditure issues are in terms of you know that side of the the
thing the the ledger. Um isn't that what four towns is about? When you get down to timeline and reporting a task force meeting on presenting the regional school superintendent 5 to 10year projected bud budgets, why is that not at a regional school committee meeting
or for towns? Um, and then in November, recommendation of a regional assessment method that should be at four towns. And now I do see that that one does say four towns meeting including the task force. But I just kept my brain
kept just saying why can't four towns do most of this in terms of it seemed like the purpose of this task force was to coordinate other groups doing things? Well, our finance committee can coordinate each of the four towns as finance committees can coordinate doing
much of this and be sending that off as a presentation at four towns. Um, the school committee can coordinate their own issues on on expenditures and and stuff. So, that was my overarching thing is I'm not
sure what this task force would do that four towns can't do. And then beyond that, whose legal authority it is is it to create a committee like this um that
mandates members from four separate towns and um 8, nine, 10 separate bodies as well as staff time. And then it's got the potential for spending money and hiring a consultant. Well, whose money
is being is paying that consultant? Um those are just some of the things that I wrote in my notes of huh and then uh the purpose also said so that they I guess that's the the the four towns can develop a sustainable fiscal strategy to
support the full range of local services over the next 5 to 10 years. Is the task force developing for sustainable fiscal strategies? are the municipalities developing their own like those are these the questions that I
kept asking myself um you know and and all so while I won't go through many of the other other things but while I understand the need for a lot of the
information that's in here to get out to all of the towns I don't quite understand what an additional committee will bring to that process
um at this time. Okay. Uh councelor. So I had similar questions and I think among all the counselors I might be the one that has been to the fewest for town meetings but
what I've seen is that it is challenging to get a discussion going because everyone has the interest. everyone answers to different blocks of
interest. And so something that I think would be helpful is to see if we could have a facilitator as part of whoever is going to be part of this committee.
A facilitator would be someone who isn't interested or invested in a particular goal as much as getting everyone to be able to speak with each other. And that has been one of the challenges I've seen
at the four town meetings. I think also in addition that's the difference between this task force and four towns is that its scope of
what education could be within the region is different. It has a much bigger scope. It's beyond if I get this correctly it's beyond just economics that is costs. We need to know what we expect a highquality education in the
region is and then we can see how we could discuss the costs that would be needed to fund that education and I don't think you have that kind of discussion in for the four towns meeting. Okay. Uh I'm going to go back to uh a couple
questions and then I'm going to actually call in on Kathy. Um, I looked literally at the regional agreement to see whether there was a way to form a committee and there isn't. So, that's an interesting thing. And yet, it's not a town
committee. It's not an Ammeris committee and it's not a town council committee. And so, I went back and I did ask um, and Andy can speak to this because he was part of it. There have been other committees of four towns. they have
looked at um the possibility of merging the elementary districts together and the only reason to bring it forward in a way that maybe
is are there's several I believe there's several reasons to bring it forward. First of all, I think these are critical questions and I think we have not been answering these questions all along. Okay. I think that whether or not any other of the three
municipalities participates in this, Ammerst has some tough questions they need to ask and they our finance committee needs to guide us through responding to those questions. One of those particular questions that came up
this year is whether or not we continue to do a even split of new revenue. And that question cannot be sitting there and every year we have to tackle it separately. It's got to be addressed at
some point. So my goal again having wished that I could have talked about this with many council members uh was to bring this forward to say I think we have some tough conversations we need to have whether we're going to have them as
the town of Ammerst for just Ammerst and then we're going to turn to the regional schools and say this is what we can do fine but I will also tell you that in talking with the chairs of the other select boards of the select select boards for the three towns and um at
least one or two members of finance committees this year. Having to all of a sudden fork up 22.5, 15.5, and 7.5 is a shock. And they're concerned about where
we're going in the future. And so it's not just an Amoris conversation in their mind, it's a four towns regional conversation. The one person that I was not able to speak to because of extenuating
circumstances on their part was the superintendent and I tried to but she was unavailable. So um again bringing it forward is the way to get the conversation started. Kathy Mandy, I thought those were
excellent questions. And as I sit back and say why, my observation of four towns is there are so many people in the room and we get so little information and we don't come up with tough questions and we don't start early
enough to get answers that this might be a vehicle for much more focus. Um, I've really been struck that we rarely get a multi-year budget. Um, and
unfortunately, some of the discussion devolves on how to divide up the budget rather than what is the budget, you know, and what's happening to it. So hidden in this structure, not hidden, it's listed, is we all also have
elementary schools and those are sitting there with major claims on budget dollars in each of the four towns. Um, and what the what the charter has done to all four of us has meant uh a change
in enrollment over time, but also in change in dollars. So the idea of the task force is a more streamlined process in terms of fewer people. But if if we could make four towns and and Freo, you said a facilitator. This isn't a
facilitator. This is being coming in with really focused questions and having a timeline, a tight timeline for getting answers rather than just one person speaks, another person speaks. Um I I've
never seen uh uh that kind of focus on what for all of us are a really big share of our total budgets. you know asking why. Uh so so that that's my major thought when when Lynn said did I want to start to think about this and I
sat with one meeting of select board member finance committee member on the other towns who all felt that they had not focused on not just the this year impact but the next year impact and the year impact after that. you know
this this you know what are we going to do if this is the situation we're sitting in where expenses are going up faster than our revenues that's the basic starting point right Andy you know I was very pleased to see that
that you had made those calls um and had started a conversation I think it's worth starting however with a recognition We have four town governments, three of
them being traditional towns with select boards and town meetings and finance committees and then Ammeris now having a council and we have the regional school committee and the region in the
superintendent and all of the entities really do have one important thing in common. We care about the kids in our community. We care about their
education. And we also recognize that there are financial needs and financial pressures on both sides. And we need a process that brings that together so that each
community can think about um and participate and talk about their own needs and limitations and the regional schools can talk about their needs and limitations and we need to start with that
philosophical and understanding before we do anything. uh the comment about the number of people participating at um the uh four towns meetings that was made earlier I
think is uh an important recognition but there's another thing to recognize and that is that because of the structure of our government now there are a lot more counselors than there are select board
members in uh finance committee members in the other towns. And so there's a balance question that we need to be very sensitive to because um all of the towns and the regional
schools are our partner in trying to do what's best for the kids. Uh there are things that happen under the current system that are problematic and that I think the regional
uh school committee and superintendent do the best that they can in trying to make those meetings work. But setting the agenda when they're the only ones who set the agenda
um leaves them guessing and having a process that we establish together is uh five entities will help us to be able to set the agenda correctly.
So I think it's important that we continue on with this conversation of trying to establish the kind of body that was envisioned and do it um in a collaborative manner so that it doesn't
belong to any one community or doesn't belong to any one entity uh whether it be Ammerst because we started the discussion regional school committee because it has
traditionally hosted the four towns and organized the four towns meetings or any other participant. I think that we need to do this as an agreement of all of the uh communities and trying to set up a
process to do this and do this right. And uh so for those reasons, I think we really do need to move forward and try and create a conversation with our partner
communities on how to establish the right structure to make this happen in a meaningful way. George, I'm sorry, Councelor Ryan. So, I think it's clear this isn't a problem we
can solve by ourselves. We very much need the other towns. Um, if we just sit by ourselves and try and deal with this, we're going to be in that same cycle that we've seen. So, we really do need the other towns. The conversation's already
started and there seems to be genuine. So, I like that idea very much, but it's already started. There seems to be genuine interest from the other towns for some of the reasons that that the president's pointed out. Um there's concern. I think there's an openness to
this starting. Um as I understand what's being proposed, um most of the work will be done actually not by this large body but in other places and then reporting back to it. And time is of the essence. I can't
overstress urgency of this um because the main work would be done in the summer and then the fall starts the process that we are familiar with. So um there's an urgency here. I think there's an openness to a conversation. We have a framework here that provides a kind of
agenda, a kind of roadmap. Uh but the end in the end it'll depend on what the four towns do on their own kind of their homework as they report back to this larger body. Um, so I think what we're being asked to do this evening is simply say that this is a conversation we
definitely want to proceed and go forward and then we give our support to it in uh in the broadest possible sense. Councelor Hani, just a few more thoughts. Um, I think that conversation still
needs to happen at Four Towns and I think this might provide an outline for how it can happen at Four Towns where the regional school committee takes ownership of well they've always had ownership of the agenda at Four Towns, but the problem that I've seen with Four
Towns, there's two. One is we tend to show up with no knowledge of what's going to truly be presented to us and then be asked to sign off on it right that morning with like 15 minutes of conversation and
no time to do it. Um, if a regional school committee called the four towns a month in advance, formulated some questions and said, "Here's what we're going to talk about and here's what we want each town's select board or council to come in with in terms of thoughts,
conversation, ideas, and then that's what we talk about." That's sort of what this structure is here. But do it at four towns and have the region control it. Because one of the things I see missing in this structure is the region
spending the the conversation that councelor Ete said we really don't have which is the the amount of the region spending and the amount of the region budget it always goes right to can any each of the
towns afford it but we never talk about the overall number at four towns and I see it just as compile and examine resources, expenditures, and trends for services to other municipalities in the reg region. And expenditures is demands
of each town's budget of all areas, but it's not the region, that's the town's budgets. That's not really the region's budget in particular. Um, it seems like the region is missing from this conversation on their expenditures.
Um the other problem that has I feel like has happened in four towns and that this I also have concerns with is um now that four towns includes three towns and one city, the only body that has
absolute authority to adopt any regional agreement method or any actual budget that sits at four towns is us. And I feel like that has brought an expectation to not just other towns but the regional school committee that
whatever we say there is word whereas everyone else is just saying well this is what we'll recommend to town meeting but they expect us to say this is what we will do which is a completely different expectation from one body than the other three bodies. And so one thing
that would need cleared up for me at four towns is what is that expectation on what is being said there? We are a body that can is the decision-making body. The other three just have bodies that recommend to their legislature. And
that also presents not just a power dynamic but also this question of when one of us speaks or when three of us speaks and there happens to be a quorum of the council present what does that mean and how do people interpret it. Um I agree we absolutely probably need a
facilitator at these meetings. Um and I just talked about we need time to prepare call the four towns put the questions to the towns and those can be you know formulate questions to be answered to focus data collection ask the towns to come in with something you know and then it had the next task force
meeting was presentations for municipalities regarding resources and expenditures. I would also you know comparison of school budgets but I would also ask for a presentation at that point of you know resources and expenditures from the regional school too. this October one, you know, and and
some of those questions could be things like what is the capacity of each town to fund a regional school and what does each town believe a quality education is, things like that. But we never talk
about that. And I think the regional school committee could do a lot to help facilitate those conversations at Four Towns if we are given enough time to have those discussions before we get together as four towns.
So I'm going to counterargue. In fact, in many cases, councelor Hanniki, you're arguing for exactly what's been proposed. And the reason you are is because first of all if you have a group that agrees to get together that agrees on the
questions that agrees on the process and it helps the four towns move forward. It provides the opportunity for the same people to show up and be communicating with each other with the same language over a period of time which is what is
called planning. And so if we leave it to just the four towns meeting, I mean, we could Ammerst today could call the the uh superintendent of schools and say, "We insist that you call a four towns meeting." And maybe that's the way
we're going to have to go. But this is not just about the four the uh regional schools. This is also about Ammerst. And you could pull Ammerst out of this and have it look at the process itself. And we need to answer those questions. And
the reason we need to answer those questions is so we're not sitting here in April saying, gee, I don't think we should be dividing the budget equally. We need to talk about what does that mean now? We need to talk about what
that means for our schools, not just our regional schools, but our elementary schools. we need to talk about what that means for our town services. So there's a whole thing embedded in this that is a serious question and a serious set of
issues that this council and our finance committee need to wrestle with and whether or not we do it in front of town four towns or we do it separately which I think we need to do separately then I don't think you have I
my my whole sense at this point is you need to get something started now because otherwise we'll be sitting here next September in the same kind of four towns meeting we've had all along and it will be sitting here next April with the
same conversation we had this year and we had the year before and we had the year before. I don't disagree, but everything you just talked about is a council decision that can take place in front of the council, not with three other towns involved other than the full
regional budget and the the regional assessment method. Um, but everything else is not something that Shootsberry Lever and Pelum is involved in. Whether we split our budget equally or not is not something Shootsbury Lever and Pelum
should have a say in. I I will say that absolutely they should not have a say in that. We can talk all we can start all of those discussions absolutely right now in finance. We don't need a task force to do that. If you look at the chart that's embedded
in it, it has the finance committee front and center answering those questions. And only with the four towns do you have the regional finance working group dealing with the K to2 I mean the 7 to
12. Part of what has to be bought into here is that our finance committee is willing to do the job. Anna, you have your hand up. Thanks. I feel a a bit like a broken record. So, whoever's betting that I was
going to talk about BCG, you you win your bet. Um because Lyn, the example that you keep giving about the allocation, and I know that's not the only thing you're talking about, but you keep talking about the the splits, right? That is not something this group
should be doing. that is something BCG should be doing. Uh that is something that BCG should be making recommendations on. And again, if folks would like to try to revisit the charge of BCG, that's fine. But that charge is written and has been in existence and we have not been living up to it. So in my
mind, I think I what I what I want to do is is piece apart are we creating a committee because the existing committees have not been doing what we need them to be doing. and and that feels a little bit and I say that
knowing that I'm going to repeat that exact sentence for the motion that will come after this uh the the proposal that I made. Right? So, I think that some of a lot of what's in here is replicating work that should be done, but we haven't
figured out how to do it efficiently or well at four towns and at BCG. So, I'm wondering if there's a is if there's a way to have that conversation of how do we have four towns meetings that are actually productive and helpful. We take a vote every year um to authorize one
person to speak on behalf of the one or two people to speak on behalf of the town at four towns. Um we should I agree with man uh was it Mandy who said this? I can't remember. Sorry. uh whoever said that we should be having these discussions as a council before going to four towns, we need the information
further in advance so that we can actually authorize those people with some information to take forward. Right? I think we're kind of uh giving that authorization to speak on behalf of a town at four towns when we've never discussed it as a full town. It's just
whoever can be there that day. So, I I do think that there are really important pieces of this proposal and I think that it there's a lot of elements of it that need to be trimmed because they are
duplicating the work of other existing committees, specifically BCG and four towns. Uh, and I'm trying to go through and and tease that out. But I will I will die on the hill if BCG is not currently doing what it's supposed to be doing and needs to be utilized more. I I
will happily die on that hill because I think that it's a big uh step in having these conversations and we are not utilizing it. BCG has not met in months. Um, and we have stuff to do. We've we've got to start working on on these
conversations so that we can actually make uh recommendations and guidelines as per our charge as VCG. Thanks George Council Ryan. So this um
proposed for towns body will be talking about the budget and what uh it what it should be, what it should um what it is that they want as a a regional school
system and how they're going to and they're going to have to discuss an assessment method. um it's going to be focused on those issues, but in order to address those issues, each of the four towns is going to have to go off on its own and think hard about its fiscal
realities, what it wants, what it can afford. So I don't see the problem I I don't see the problem that somehow the four towns meeting is going to be discussing our budget or our priorities but rather when those meetings are held
we will be coming to that meeting our representatives having had a very thorough discussion prior about what we think we can afford and what we think we want in our schools. Um and the focus at the four towns will be about the regional school only.
um where that discussion happens with Ammerst. I think I would prefer it be in in the finance committee. Um the finance committee needs to weigh in as to whether that's something that they have the time energy uh to handle over the summer because that's really what we're
thinking about. Um the other towns will decide how they're going to handle their end of it perhaps through their finance committees. But I don't see a problem with the the regional committee. Um they have a very clear task and a clear focus. um but they can't really accomplish that goal without each of the
four towns having these important and individual discussions. So again, I have like a circle and there are four, you know, entities off of it. But when they come back together as a four towns body, their focus is on the four towns and we
know that's a real issue, a real problem. We need to start addressing it. we need to start yesterday and so I don't want us to to to delay this if we can help it and encourage this conversation to go forward. Bob Hegner.
Yeah, I've been I've been listening to the conversation and I I I I agree with the need to move forward on these issues. The problem is there's no one body that really can do that. I
mean, the finance committee has no authority to bring to uh force the school committees to to tell us what they need over the next 10 years. I mean, we can't do it. There's no
authority for the finance committee to do that. There's no authority for BCG to do that. I don't know that there is any authority to get everybody in the room to to really focus on what the issues are. And the one of the biggest issues
that I see is we've been able to kick the can down the road where our our our expenses are outpacing our revenues and we can't do it anymore. We have to start deciding, okay, what are we going to cut
in order to afford other things that the town believes are important and the finance committee actually can make a recommendation, but it's the council that has to make that decision in for Ammerst and it's the other towns that
have to make that decision for them themselves. And so I I don't even see how one body can do this. Um but I'm I mean I I'm willing to to start the process, you know, for for the finance
committee to start the process, but I'm going to we're going to need help. We're going to need um other parties to come forward and say what is it that we see our expenses you know evolving over the next
5 to 10 years and without that information we can't do we we we don't we the finance committee can't do anything uh unless that information is provided to us. So who's the authority
to to force the other elected bodies to come to the finance committee or give that information to the the finance committee? I just don't know how we do it. You now understand the dilemma of trying to get anything done with a four towns
where the only thing we have in common is the high school. I mean is the 7 to 12 But again, segment out from this. Ammerst has to answer some tough questions. I always look to the finance
committee for that. I I have full respect for BCG, but BCG is a committee of called by the town manager. The finance committee is a committee of the council. And if the council wants to
tackle these things, then it should ask its body to tackle it. Councelor Hannaki. So we have another meeting in a week where the budget's presented. Why doesn't someone come to the council with a motion that says refer to finance
committee these following questions to be discussed and responded to and make recommendations to the full council on whatever those questions are um refer to BCG the following questions that's how we operate by motion um we can control
what we do and what information we have and the discussions we have in advance of um the fall those questions just off the top of my head could include things like how to distribute the operating portion of the
budget, the increase in operating portion of the budget each year. Um, it could include questions like what kind of increase or what kind of um regional agreement method would we consider? There's probably plenty of
options out there, but what would we consider? What would we be willing to consider? Um things like how do you determine in September what each major
operating area's um expected growth will be? Like is there a way we can predict what those numbers are and how unequal they might be? uh I don't know whether there is but maybe we can ask those questions and maybe we can refer those questions to
finance to start those conversations. Okay. Are there any other questions or comments? Pam. Uh, it's it's um I I think I agree with what Mandy just said, but I understand the need or the desire to sort of lasso
wrangle um all of these disperate uh efforts into into a small um task force, call it a working group that can pull the various pieces together. So we have the
budget coordinating group which feels like everybody agrees could be doing a lot more nitty-gritty work than they do but but ask each town to have you know to put the same kind of a team together. So you have out input from the BCGs of
the world. We have the regional needs that come from the four towns. Um we have the the kind of detail that the joint capital planning committee goes through which is the nitty-gritty of you know det we are not asking each
of the towns to do that kind of work but because the budgets uh interface and and hammer into each other so badly. It's almost like we we really want we want all of this
detail to be winnowed through a very small reference group who can you know synthesize it winnow it down and try to make some sense of the about 10 different parts that we're trying to
deal with. So I I appreciate the idea of a task force. [Music] Um, I think I would support that just for that very reason. You know, beats the heck out of me at this point with my COVID to be thinking clearly about how
that could could happen. I I um you know, can we ask again like Mandy said, can we ask in advance that the regional school committee goes through and does its you know, similar to the joint capital planning commission um
similar to its own BCG, can it can it give us the details so everyone feels comfortable that people have turned over all of the marbles and have looked under the stones to get the information we need? And I I haven't, you know, synthesized this at all, but but I
totally understand the desire to have it winnowed and synthesized by somebody, whatever form it takes, Jennifer, I just want to say on page two of it does seem that's what you were you've
done that. I mean, you've So maybe we want to add to that. we maybe want to refine it, but I think I I think most of the comments find themselves somewhere in here. So, I thank you and Kathy for that. So, maybe want to start with that because what I'm hearing when I look at
this chart, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, you really covered it all." So um you know I can't it it boggled my mind a little when I read it but I think you tried to find right within all these squares are all the issues that we have to
address. So I do think that's a good starting point. Are there any other comments? Okay. Uh, we have one other item. It was the long-term public way request for the mobile market. We already dealt with
that. We have Anna. I'm sorry, Anna. We get to continue the fun times. Yes, Anna. Please go ahead. Okay, I'm going to try my video again. Um, so this is really a a continuing conversation from what uh what Lynn was just talking
about. Um, and I would invite if Sarah Bess is still there, she's welcome to um to join um if she if she wants to. No pressure. Um so this proposal came out of a desire to
have some more collaborative conversations um between the regional schools, the Ammeris schools and um the town council. And a lot of what you're seeing in the
proposal was the effort to follow all the rules and figure out a committee that follows all the rules for for these bodies to come together and discuss. And um Lynn's proposal was a Lynn and Cathy's proposal was a bit of kind of the 2.0 of this in some ways um because
Sarah Best and I and initially this um this conversation uh Jennifer Sha was part of this conversation. and she withdrew her name from this. Um, and I I believe Sense has put forward her own proposal to the re to the school committee. Um, but this proposal
initially was an effort for these groups to just start having the conversations about what does long range planning look like in terms of the needs of the the schools. Um, basically what does our population shift look like? what are the
increase in costs for running a town, for running a school district, all of those things. Um, it is not a body that's going to make budgetary recommendations. It is intended to be an information gathering and information sharing body. So, um, this is intended
to say, hey, you know, regional school committee, hey, Ammer school committee, hey, town council, this is what you're looking at for the next, you know, x number of years in terms of your budgetary needs. and um uh projections
that that we see. Do with that information what you will. Um I think based on the last conversation, I think that there's a lot of um I anticipate that that folks will have a lot of thoughts on this too. Uh, it is, I will say, very tricky to figure out. Poor
Mandy was subjected to me trying to interpret the charter in five different ways because it's really hard to actually have a body that is truly equitably representative and still in compliance with our charter and with the rules of the um, school committee and
the regional school committee. So the just to enlighten you on just how tricky it is, the only other option where each body would get to appoint their own members is to have two committees with the exact same charge that meet concurrently at the same time with two agendas, two sets of minutes, two staff
leaison, etc. That's just not reasonable. So the the committee that you're seeing is a town council committee technically. um which means the town manager would be the appointing authority but um we the vision was that each body would make a recommendation for who they would like the town uh
manager to appoint to the body. I'm trying to anticipate some of the questions about why this might look funky to you. Um but really this yeah this was supposed to be an information gathering kind of specifically focused group. That was the vision and I'm happy to take questions.
Thanks. I was wondering if the previous committee and the plan around that takes hold, would there be any need for what you have in mind? I don't think so. I do think that we've got some duplicated efforts. Um, but I
do think that should one or the other go forward, the um elements of either plan that are not included would uh I would probably bring them back to try to find a home for them. Right? So, if there's something in this charge that I feel like is really missing from the other
charge and the council decides to go forward with that one, I would I'll I'll bring back another proposal um for those items. Councelor Hanicki. So I guess my big question on this one is can we predict
without within our own expertise and the expertise of our town staff what demographics in 10 years will look like? What service trends will look like in 10 years? That seems like a area of expertise that given the makeup of the
committee which is just one resident member who might have demographic research experience cannot potentially fulfill without hiring consultants and then even then can they fulfill that within a certain amount of time and is
that demographic research just for Ammerst or all four towns um you know and service needs too. Service needs and demographics in some sense are completely different things because you're trying to predict demographics go into what services are
needed, but you have to predict what AI and other technology will look like in 10 years too. Um, and so and then the needs assessment, I'm not sure what that is meant to
do versus service trends. over the course of the next 10 years. Um, so I guess I'm unsure that what is being asked in the charge can actually
be accomplished by the people who would be appointed to the body. May I please? So the the really key part, Mandy, is that line underneath
the five voting members that says as needed subject matter experts. Um you're right, there is possible expenditure here for those subject matter experts, right? Um it may include requests for information from um folks within the
town themselves, but it may also uh be and all those would go through the through the town manager, but it may also be, you know, seeking information from groups like the Donahghue Institute that does this kind of research, right, and looks at those demographic shifts. Um so it it is the the members of the
committee would really be facilitating what questions we're asking um and not necessarily expected to be the researchers themselves because I don't know how many uh yeah because we're not necessarily the subject matter experts in those in that
area. So um I hope that makes sense. I'm a bit foggy today, but that that's the goal there is really that this this committee is figuring out what is it we need to know to make informed decisions and then relying on those subject matter
experts to find the answers. Um, you're right, 10 years out is really hard and this is not expected to provide a perfect response, but we have talked for a long time, for example, about the idea of we've we're looking at a um a
demographic cliff, right? The the the cliff of population, whatever it's called. Um, but we haven't had the conversation of what are the specific implications of that on all aspects of our community, the schools, but also the town. Um, and so this group is trying to
to figure out what might it look like if our population is going to change in this way. Uh, and then sharing that information with the communities to do with it what they will. Andy,
I'm getting concerned about um too many committees and that you know we so that's one issue that has to be understood by all of us
is how many committees can we create how many committees can we support how do they work together second thing is that what I said earlier I will not go into much detail on because I already said it but there are five entities and five
entities need to be in the room and the last piece that kind of flows from that Harper is that we need to make sure that there's confidence in this process amongst all five
communities and I um a few days ago there was an article in the Gazette about the lever at select board meeting. And in that um conversation, the one person who voted
no on recommending the budget to the town meeting, the regional school budget to the town meeting, um was somebody who is expressing a cons several concerns. One is about um the
amount of weight that the largest of the municipalities which is us has in the process and um the other is a lack of faith in the school committee because the school committee is a
majority from Ammerst and uh so I think we need to be sensitive and think about all of those issues. And what I saw as the proposal for the
four town process was a way that we can bring all four communities together with the regional school committee and talk about this as a five community effort and not let one community be in a
position to take it over. I very much worry that creating this particular body in addition would actually diminish the ability of the five
community five entity process to do what we wanted to do. Uh and uh my last uh observation I'm going to share is a little bit different subject but just a reminder for those people who are not
aware of it uh or to alert people who are not aware of it. The school committee exists in the structure that it has because that's what state law says that it has to be. And the state law says it has to be that because the
US Supreme Court issued a decision a number of years ago that had was then affirmed and expanded upon on a state basis by the circuit court of appeals for the federal court system that covers
Massachusetts that uh goes on the principle of one person, one vote and that it's impossible to have one person, one vote when you have one very large
community and not let that larger community have a larger representation. And uh I'll be glad to go into is the lawyer side of me someday when somebody's interested in having the
conversation and tell you all of the details that are behind that. But believe me, I've read the Supreme Court case. I've read the Circuit Court of Appeals. I've read the statute. I've been through this um and uh we are where
we are. George. So, I I appreciate the the motivation behind this, but I I do find that the the focus seems really really narrow. It it's essentially demographics and service trends and needs. And those are
all, you know, important relevant questions. But this is called a fiscal impact task force. And there doesn't seem to be any real emphasis on revenues and resources. It's about trends, service needs, demographics, and that's
so I I find the focus somewhat skewed. I don't think the five members here pose two councils. There's two committee members and a and a resident member are really suited for this. And of course, it would make enormous demands on staff time. Um, we already have, as councelor
Steinberg has pointed out, we have already an existing two existing bodies that deal with these sorts of questions that we hope we'll be dealing with them over the next few months. I don't think we need to create another one. Um, and I do hope that the the body we talked about earlier will will get some uh
support and get some life as well. So, appreciate the desire to do this, but I think we have better ways to address these questions. And I certainly would like a focus that will also include resources and revenues um as a central part of the discussion.
Anna, thanks. Um this conversation and the last one have been have been really interesting and uh George, I think once again I probably could have articulated it more clearly. I think that was something that I hadn't
anticipated this committee would ignore but uh but it is not clearly uh written in there as much as it should be clearly um if this committee is not if the
council does not vote to create this committee if the council does not vote to create the other um group or I guess the council wouldn't vote that but however this goes for me one of The biggest takeaways here is that we need to
I'm trying to think of the form this takes, right? This is this is the root of why these these keep happening is there isn't a clear way to to make this happen. But I do feel that there are some takeaways from both the proposal Lynn and Kathy wrote and the proposal that Sarah Bess uh and I are are putting
forward, which is that we BCG needs to be meeting. Paul, please please I'm begging you, call BCG. I this is we need to start this work earlier and um we're not living up to our charge and I think that that is a really great avenue for a
lot of these conversations to be happening. Similarly, I think the council should figure out a way to communicate some of this feedback to uh the regarding the four towns meeting and how meetings and how those function and how those work. Um, I think that all of the the challenges and frustrations
we're having, people can hear us talking about them, but we need to we need to be a bit more articulate and clear in what would it look like if it were done well, not just what is not working. Um, I think it's it's easy to say this isn't
working, this won't work, but what would it look like if it did work well is a harder question to answer and one that I think we need to focus on. So, um I would however these these votes go on whether or not to create these the these bodies um or support these again I'm not
sure what the vote on would be for for Lynn's proposal but however those go I think that the takeaways are really important and should be brought forward. Uh and I'd love for that conversation to be brought forward in the in the framing of how might we or what would it look like if it were done better. Um, we're
really good. We're really really good at saying why something won't work uh or why something is is difficult. Uh, and I would like us to start thinking what would it look like if it were done well so that we can start moving towards that direction. Are there any further
comments or questions? Okay. I think at this point, Anna, there was the idea that there would be a motion on this, but I don't see that that's necessarily the best way to go. What would you like to do? Um, what would there be if not a motion?
Well, the motion is to refer the draft charge of the long range fiscal impacts task force to go for substantive review and input from the Ammeris Pelum regional and Ammerst
school committees with reports due back to the council by May 1st. Obviously, that's not going to happen. uh what here here I believe that you've raised some additional uh pieces in
yours that we need to look at as we look at both of them and I'm not sure the way to do that is referring one to a committee at this point okay what is the answer or what is the path forward I mean one option is that
we spend a little time talking to each other about the various things that we've put in here. Um, and that we come back to a future council meeting. Kathy, I think that's where you were just headed, Lynn. Um, May is packed, but if
we could have a discussion in early June, you know, one of the uh it's only two sentences long, Anna, and the finance committee report is we looked at BCG in terms of what it what was written into the charter and we stepped back and
said, "Oh, the old BCG when we had town meeting, what did it have? It had the finance committee and a select board. It had no appropriating entity. None. There were town meetings out at the other end of it. So, it was a very, very different
discussion. And it's similar to four towns meeting. One group has the ability to say yes or no to dollars and the others are trying to figure out what they're going to take to the group that does have it. So, uh, the BCG was just
brought in from town meeting because it used town meeting days because it used to work well in that structure. Um, why we need the library for example, we we we need a vehicle, what you just said, what it would look like if it worked
well, being able to ask key questions earlier, get information that we need. Um, and it's the regional school is part of it, but our elementary school is another part of it. it sort of slips by the wayside. Um, understand as soon as
we can what our revenue projections are, you know, one year and twoyear and what the underlying expense projections. I have a couple times asked and it's amazing to not get an answer but if you just take the union contracts that we
have with step increases and wage increases what is the cost increase each year from just labor alone and I I asked this once about four years ago in region and and the answer was good question um
that you know as as opposed to an answer and I said because that's that's what that's what the pressure is right these are people inensive everything we do in town is people intensive you could ask the same thing so trying to find a vehicle on asking questions earlier
getting answers that we can look at and assess is what I think what would this look like you know what isn't working now on any process because it's clearly not working well we don't have long enough in the finance committee we send
a bunch of questions in and we have an hour with major departments, you know, with that are a huge amount of our budget and we get the budget on May 1st and we all have to vote on it. So, it's it's earlier with more information so we
can make informed decisions at the council level, at the finance committee level, and the regional school. Hopefully, all of them a better understanding of what our revenue sources are. Um, you know,
good honest predictions. So that's the So Lynn, I think the having a longer discussion about this that isn't in just a council meeting um is an item. Um we don't have any time. We don't have any bandwidth to
have that discussion in finance. We're about to meet twice a week, two-hour meetings each of those times and have a report back to the council by the end of May. and we don't have the documents we're going to be looking at yet. Uh so we don't have any time for
this discussion, but we've started to have it a few times on what information we don't have. Um and what we're not getting when we have these focused budget reviews, we're not getting answers. Um so so that's it. Um that that's my
sense of uh the the notion of the task force was focused way to get questions asked and with schools in the middle of it and Ela we took out one two sentences that comparative data on cost per student because we didn't want to make
it just about the schools but just understanding what's going on with Ammerst compared to other towns in our region you know and however we defined our region whether regional or elementary. So, I think we need
that. What isn't working well now and what would it look like? Anna's words, what would it look like if it worked well? Those are those are good words. Anna, how do you want to proceed? Um, Lynn, I'm happy to to
connect with you and talk through what um what we just talked about and uh come back to the council with something that's fine with uh but I would like to confer with Sarah Best because she was the co-author of this. Absolutely. She's she just gave me a thumbs up. Okay, great. Thanks. She gave all of us a
thumbs up. How's that? And I would assume that anyway, but thank you. Okay. Uh we our last action item then was in fact uh approved on consent agenda. Uh there are no appointments. So we're going to
go on to committee and liaison reports. Uh the first one obviously BCG has not met. CRC Pam Rooney and Jennifer Tom. Thank you. Our most recent um meeting on the 10th on the 24th, excuse me, was
cancelled due to a lack of quorum. Um, but we have been working hard on the solar bylaw with good input from town staff and we'll continue to work on that as well as setting uh opportunities up
for interviews for zoning board of appeals and planning board members. Thank you for making the announcement um to remind people that we are always looking for people to express interest in those two committees. Jennifer, do
you want to add anything? Um, no, that covered it. Okay. Elementary school building committee Kathy and Alicia. We next meet on May 16th, Friday. But more exciting is I think we finally have
a date May 20th in the afternoon for the crane putting the beam up on top of the building and a celebration that we have a building in process and we the crane is going to leave the site if we don't do it by the 20th is what we is I think
the last information we had Paul as we're timing it around the the crane and the town is going to be organizing um a quick set of ceremony the way we did when we had the dirt delivered to the school site. That just is a big hurray
that the school is in the works. Great. Um, finance committee Kathy and Bob Hegner, you have in your report a report from the finance committee on the two action items that were referred to us, but you
also have to the extent you it's not very long the report. I think it's three pages. I copied and pasted the schedule so that if anyone is interested in the the budget reviews that we'll be doing, we have a Tuesday and Thursday schedule.
Uh the Tuesdays will always be at two, but ele the elementary and regional school are on May 8th. Um the first one we'll be doing on May 6 is the capital budget and library. So you can see the schedule and Lynn in the past to the
extent uh counselors actually wanted to participate more actively. We did a committee of the whole posting but uh we will all get the budget um soon. May 1st is when it's due. So
sending questions in to me if you see areas like the DPW enterprise funds, larger uh community safety, we scheduled it all out and our process is going to be similar to what Andy set up a couple
years ago is each committee member on finance has taken one section and being responsible for making sure they ask questions in advance, writing up a piece in uh the finance committee report. So, we have a lot of work scheduled um in
the month of May. Oh, and Lynn, you already announced that there's a budget hearing um on the let me show make sure I get the date right, the 12th and the finance committee and that's the entire budget. So it's the finance committee but if the
council it could be joint where the council is there and that I think I was told needs to be virtual because of the number of people we would expect to be coming. Yes. And um have you decided that it can
be a committee of the whole? Um I I didn't think finance could make that decision. I mean I'm happy to have it be a committee of the whole. The fi finance is supposed to hold the budget hearings. So we will be
doing that. Um and this is not you know we won't be voting on the budget. This is we wanted it scheduled at that time in May so we would have information from the hearing before we write our report to the council. Correct. Mandy has a council Ryan, you
also have Is there a time for that meeting? 6:30. 6:30. This is 6:30. Councelor Han, I just want to clarify. It's the budget hearing, which means finance committee doesn't ask any questions. We hear from the public. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's not, you know, it's it's listen. It's
listening. It it's listening. you know that this will be uh at that point we will have only um had a couple meetings that are focused on specific areas of the budget but it's the whole budget but it's it's
held like a hearing just like we do when we do any other hearing but it's really to listen to the public and it's going to be virtual and the finance committee will determine whether it's going to be a committee of the whole my personal opinion is that many counselors would
like to be listening in and and people would like to know that we're listening. Okay. Okay. Um G Anna. Okay. Uh so G worked on the AH
successor body charge as you know. Um and then I have a big list of things for counselors to take a note of and um I will send an email with this as well. We are working on liaison. So if you have a preference for a committee that you
would like to be a liaison for, Joel is going to try to do some proposals for matches. Um we're we're doing it medical school style here. So if you have a committee that you'd like to be a liazison for, I would first like to recommend that you review the role of a liaison as defined in our rules of
procedure um to before you sign on to to be a liazison to a committee. Um and then if you I will send out a big document with the list of committees. Uh please indicate whether you'd like to serve as a liaison for any of them. Once
I do that, um we will also be asking the committees whether they want a liazison and then we'll kind of be doing that magical matchmaking process. Um other work of go right now includes trying to fill the vacancies on the charter review committee and the finance
resident member on the finance committee. We have yet to have a sufficient pool. So please reach out to your mailing lists, your friends, your neighbors, random people you see on the street uh and tell them that these openings exist um and that these are two
really wonderful wonderful committees. And no shade to CRC. I know that ZBA and planning board are also wonderful committees. Uh however, these two are really great. So um please encourage folks to send in a a calf for these a
community activity form um so that go can continue to move forward in the process. On that note, I will also be seeking counselor feedback on the interview questions that we ask. Um this is similar to the process that we just got an email, I believe, from Pam uh recently about planning board questions.
And so I'll be emailing out the questions that go has drafted and seeking feedback on those. Um, last thing that I will need from you is that go will be launching in to a
discussion of our rules of procedure. This is something GO does every year, but in the past go has gone through and gone line by line. We're not going to do that this year because G also has a lot of other things to do. Um, and so what we are asking is I have a word document
of the rules of procedure. Uh, and I will send that to the council. Please send me any track change. It's got to be track changes. If you need help knowing how to do track changes, I will happily happily sit down with you and help you do that. Um, but we are seeking specific
changes that you'd like to see to the rules of procedure in the writing that you'd like to see them in. Um and G will be reviewing that um at our at our upcoming meeting. So um same deadline as before Wednesday the what is what did I
say Wednesday was? Next Wednesday um if you could please send any track changes to us to include it in our full review. I will remind you at any point counselors can bring forward to the to the council as a whole a request for go to uh a request for an amendment to the
rules. But if you'd like it to be included in our full kind of review that that we're going through now, um I would like you to please send it to me by next Wednesday. Pam has a question. I have a question. So, are you
touching on policies as well? Because I think I sent a a suggestion to a change in policy having to do with multimember board selection that um would be very helpful for committees such as CRC to be
dealing with um the followup on community activity forms. So, I just would hope that that could get somehow wrapped in and addressed as well. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's not part of that exact same discussion, but it is on my
radar. Um, and we will likely do the same kind of second verse, same as the first for our our other policies. Um, but I believe Pam that was was that referred officially to go? Uh, I can't remember because I believe it was and because it's on my I'm looking at my Excel sheet right now. I do have it on
our on a future agenda. Um, and so it's it we have not gotten to it yet. I apologize for that, but we have not forgotten about it. Yeah, it's on I've got I've got it tenatively scheduled. Kathy, uh yes, this is is
not directly related to looking at the rules. Uh but I will send you some ideas there. But thank you. I I was at a breakfast where someone remarked on they had just gotten a notice of all the
vacancies on committees that are available in town. not just the one, not the ones that the council appoints to. And they said, "How can we possibly have that many committees?" And they noticed how many vacancies there were on a lot of committees that,
you know, we need three or four. So, I'm wondering, Lynn, whether G might want to take on I know this is at the town manager level, but do we have committees that overlap in some way? Do we have too many? And have that conversation with the town manager? because this person
actually said, "If I'm interested in this, which of these two might I apply for and why are they look pretty similar, so why do you have two of them rather than one of them?" So that was the kind of feedback I had from someone who was looking at a place that they
might want to be on a committee and then they noticed how many vacancies there were. So their sense was we're asking a lot of people to volunteer and we're not getting enough and some committees are really not getting enough. So that that
was just an observation that came up at a casual breakfast when I was trying to talk this person into applying for the finance committee and that wasn't that committee wasn't on the list because that's a council appointment. This was the other
list. You're not the first person to suggest this and the last time it happened, it failed miserably. So, it was before our time. Uh, George, I don't know about you, but in my conversations with Paul, he often says
we don't have enough committees. So, um, we don't want to step on his toes, but I would share with Kathy the sense that if there's a way we could address this, um, it would be something fruitful to do. I'll leave it to the chair of go to open
that conversation with the town manager. I have a question. Sorry. Yeah, I have a question. Would that be the chair of go's like I'm happy to do this but are those our committee like is that part of the multiple member body right? So why how would I am happy to take it on but I
would like to know exactly what I'm supposed to do. I said I said I don't know whether it fits you. TSO TSO might be the other place because it's town services you know and they could look I'm just that what when I looked at I said holy mackerel and I looked at how
many vacancies so there's some that are critical. I mean they're regulatory bodies and they're making decisions about things and as I said planning and ZBA and finance weren't even on the list you know because those are this was the town manager. Yeah.
Okay, that's what we want to make. Wait, so but sorry, I just want to not let this just like peter out into the ether because I don't think this is something go necessar because cath I agree Kathy with what you're saying and I and I hear you. You weren't tasking me with it, but I I I don't want this to be hanging out
and or I don't want to drop the ball. Um, so Lynn, could we just wrap it around to know where that Why don't we suggest that go have a conversation with the town manager about this issue and see I'm still a bit confused why go would do that, but I'm happy to to add
that to an agenda. I don't know why G would do it. TSO could certainly do it, too. But it's the reality is that most of these committees are not committees of the council. The council only has the three
committees we have. We only created two of the non-committees that we appoint. We do. We've we've created ECAC and the ARA and and then we created
um CS CWG and so forth. So most of them we don't have any control over. I think it's this conversation's though point of order getting closer to not a committee report. Yeah, let me suggest that we
have it as a future agenda item. How's that? Thank you. Um I was going on the Yes. Uh JCPC Kathy. Uh JCPC is I think everyone in the council knows is a group that provides
recommendations to the town manager. So you have the report, the full report in your packet and I think I got it down to one page, maybe one and a half page. My summary of it, which is to say that the committee worked really hard this year
to get the upcoming capital budget FY26 balanced. We started with an 800, not quite 800, $750,000 deficit, but all the other years are not balanced and most of them are not balanced to the 2 million or
more. So, we have a ch and this is we have a challenge facing us um on capital. Uh and George last year protested dropping roads down to 500,000. We're in that $2 million deficit with roads at 500,000 on each of
the four years. Um, we're not right now showing the chapter 90 grant. So, I was never able to get exactly what that is this year, but that is additional money we get from the state and it had not been increasing. So, I don't know whether it is increasing or not. So, we
we got it in late this year for a couple reasons. We started really late and we had a couple meeting snafoos including Zoom crashed just as we were writing the final report, but Paul got an early draft of it that was pretty
substantially the same. So the the last thing I'd say about it is I think this is a really pretty critical process and some of the innovations that we did three years ago because of the turnover in our finance director we've been a
unable to keep up with them. One is getting a debt service schedule for all 10 years. We didn't get an updated one and I'm assuming there will be one in the capital plan. We also asked to look closely at um projects that had been
funded three years ago and weren't fully spent out and whether they were going to to bring money back in. And I noticed another town Deerfield recently or not Deerfield Sunderland found money because they found some money. So I think those are important to continue and pull I
didn't we didn't even you know what pieces weren't there but we just didn't even have them but the finance committee was very well staffed just on getting information to us in a timely process was also working with the rest of town
staff. So we we have challenges ahead and one thing Bob may want to speak to we make a strong recommendation that we need a vehicle policy. you know, when do we buy a new vehicle? Why? That cuts across all departments. So, we're not
everyone would argue my my car, my truck, my whatever is the most important, but we don't really have a policy on uh how what does the condition of it have to be before we replace it. So, Bob said he wanted to take that on in finance, but we have some things on
trying to think of a what might that look like um as opposed to just an inventory. I think that's it. Anna, Kathy, this is um a question. So, we've when I was on JCPC, we talked a
lot about the um vehicle transition, the fleet transition plan, uh which feels very similar to uh it feels like part of what you and Bob are talking about with the kind of guidelines around purchasing. And I'm wondering if there's anything that could kind of serve as a
base for Bob to build on, if this is what you're working on, Bob, of uh with that fleet transition plan, we had talked about kind of how to shift municipal vehicles over to more electric and including questions like do they make them in electric models or what would what would need to occur? Um, and
I I was curious if you have an update on kind of the status of that uh and whether or not that can help us as we think about making that longer range. uh vehicle purchasing guidelines or or or plan or whatever that is. Yeah, I like I
see Bob's hand is up. So that that was sort of a given. I mean every department's coming in trying to do that. In some cases that's not an option, you know, in terms of there isn't there isn't a hybrid, there isn't an electric, but but it is it's embedded
in our process. The question is do we switch them out at 100,000 miles and why are some of our vehicles failing? the ones we're doing don't seem to be driven as long as others, even if they're hybrids, Anna, you know, we're some of it, some of this was a broader look at
do we need a sidewalk plow, do we need a this, do we need a that? Um, so I see Bob's hand is up. So it was a bigger piece on vehicles than just the transition. Okay. And I I would like to clarify. Go ahead, Anna. Please clarify.
Sorry. Uh yeah, and Kathy, what I was talking about is I is is beyond the piece that is a given. Um and I think that was what JCPC the discussions if I'm recalling correctly were that we knew that folks were saying, you know, do we think this is the the most
efficient option, but we were actually trying to look at how in the next 5 years are you planning to transition? Not just one year at a time, but actually looking forward that 5 years. Um I think that was that was the difference there. And similarly, uh, what would you need in order to make
that transition? Um because you're right, it's not always possible. But I I it was similar looking at like other communities have created those fleet transition plans and and it it factors into any sort of municipal purchasing plan uh in in kind of the obvious ways
of how vehicles are purchased over the course of speak in a second. But if you look at JCPC the columns almost all vehicles with the exception of some school school bans and two police cars were pushed into next year. So, next
year has a huge list of vehicles that people are thinking. So, it isn't just the five-year plan, but how do we even differentiate among what's on the request list? So, so yes, yes to the longer range. Um, you know, and so I'm
turning it back over to Paul. I'd like because we have a real problem with delays and even we order one and we don't get it for three years. So, we we've got a whole issue going on with vehicles that is bigger than just one
year. Bob, you've had your hand up. Thanks for your patience. Yes. Um the the focus of what I would like to do is look at as as Kathy said, what is the you know, right now we we sort of we
sort of say, well, the police cruisers we replace after they get to 100,000 miles, but the school buses we don't replace until they get to 200,000 or the school vehicles. And and the question is why do why is one 100,000 and the other
200,000? And there may be good reasons for it. I don't want to I'm not trying to say that one is is is you know not good and and the other is is is good. But the the question is do we don't have
a policy on when to replace vehicles. And so the idea is to look at, you know, every factor we can look at and say it makes sense to replace police cruisers
every x, you know, x,000 miles or when the repairs get beyond x percentage of the replacement cost or something like that. um you know that that's the idea is to is to kind of come up with a
reasonable policy that really applies across the board and then you know we can we can you know adjust that as need be. So so yes Anna I mean the the policy is to transition to
electric vehicles to electric equipment as much as we can. uh some of it is not available, some of it doesn't work for various reasons, but I think and and Paul, you can you can probably answer talk to this, but it's
on everyone's every uh town uh everyone in town who has the uh authority to or the ability to request vehicles has in mind that they they should be electric if they can. So,
I think that's that's already there. But the question is how often and when do we do we do we replace vehicles? So, and if people have information, I know um Bridget Hines on the school committee
really did a lot of research. I'm going to tap into her research as well. And uh I I Andy if if MMA may have done some research on this as well, I don't know. But I mean the other question that sort of
came up is are we getting the right vehicles? You know, we the the police use the Ford Explorer as their base. Is that the right base to use? Other towns use a different vehicle for their base. So, um there's there's a lot of issues
that would come into this, but yes, we will replace things with electric. That's the first preference. The second preference is hybrid. And the final preference would be, you know, fossil fuel powered. And some vehicles
you you can't get around that. So anyway, that's that's I haven't gone any further than think starting to think it through. Councor Hanicki just want to comment that I'm worried
this discussion has gone beyond reporting into some sort of substantive on the actual capital allocations and questions regarding that. And I don't think that's entirely inappropriate for committee reports versus when we have the conversation substantively on our
agenda as an action item. Thank you. Um Jones Library Building Committee. Pam, um the next meeting will be May 2. The last meeting was back in January and it
was a um it was just an open session for the chapter or section uh 106 uh commentary from the um the folks in the community representing different aspects of
consideration. So I don't have anything to report. Thank you. Uh TSO Andy George uh TSO is meeting again this Thursday um once more on what has become a good
discussion of a very major topic which is the proposal from the town originally with the in the uh superintendent of public works to establish a transportation and parking commission and make necessary changes to
accommodate that with uh to the policy on public ways. Uh we have a revised draft after u our last two meetings and substantial discussion. Uh that will be the subject of a lot of the discussion
that will happen at the next meeting as well as the two underlying documents that I referenced that go with it. Um there are uh two other issues that um or three other issues rather that are very
much on our minds. Uh one is the uh um question about reviewing the Heatherstone Road process. uh is what happened if you recall is that we
approved the uh construction with the mini roundabouts with an understanding that it would not be impossible to make modifications but that we thought the best course was to go forward and after
a reasonable period of time evaluate and uh so that's going to start with um also on May 1st first um a district 2 meeting in which uh there's going to be um a request for feedback and then we're
going to follow through with um a committee meeting where we will in the daytime seek um also input. The other two things are the waste hauler bylaw and
we receiving a report soon. and I don't have ahead the exact date from the town manager about the efforts that have been made find a consultant to assist with that and how that fits um how we can
move forward with that process. Um so that that's one that is on our um short list of things we want to get back to as quickly as possible. And the other was that there was a um bylaw that was
introduced by councelor Hani um on public urination and uh we are going to uh need to schedule meeting now where we can uh focus on looking at
those issues. So those are the things that are before the committee at the moment and uh I um will return just with for in conclusion by saying that my hope
is is that after this next meeting um on Thursday that we will have a um a tentative proposal and at that point we'll be seeking broad comment and we will be sending it to transportation advisory committee and other committees
that are have an interest. But we also will um want to send it to all of you as counselors and to the public at large through that process just to invite
comment. Um and then uh it's not we're not asking for discussion at um a council meeting yet, but we would very much like to get comments and questions from counselors. So that's the next
step. Thank you. Uh liaison reports, are there any? Jennifer um I have been the liaison to the council on aging but they changed the time that they meet and CRC changed
the time so that now conflicts so I just when people complete you know their request um and indicate their interest in being a liaison that the council on aging is now open unfortunately I've enjoyed it but there's just a conflict um and I had in my calendar I hope it
hasn't changed that the senior center is having an open house tomorrow is That's Do you know if that's still correct? I'm thinking since we didn't get a more recent email. We can confirm that for you. I had it Thursday, I think. So, it is this Thursday. I'm sorry, not
tomorrow. From We can confirm that. Yeah. I just wanted the council. I'm sorry. When is it? I think it's Thursday from 10 to noon. The open house was cancelled. Okay. Because of the But they did have a volunteer appreciation dinner. Whether that I have to double check. That is on
Thursday. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Uh we approved the minutes in the um consent agenda, town manager report. There's not a written report, but Paul, do you have comments? I do. Um so we are working very diligently to get the budget to you on May 1st, which we will
do. Uh then we'll make a presentation on Monday at your council meeting. the um the budget is a very large document and it's um a lot of staff work is being put into it. I just want to thank our staff uh and pe u Athena Ali Drake Fountain
and even Melissa continues to work with us. She's here tonight working on the budget after hours and she has also um um been willing to come to all the finance committee meetings uh in May. So that's a very big help for all of our staff. So, that's exciting. You know, I
I want to thank the J joint capital planning committee uh for this report. We use we're using that as a base for the capital improvement program, which you will also receive on on um May 1st. The elementary school budget and the library budget and the regional school
budgets are all on our website under the upcoming budget page. So, those the detail of those budgets are there as well um as what was recommended by the school committee. Um the uh what else? So then we have
commencements coming up in the next few next few weeks. We have two more weekends uh and then the next the weekend after that are the commencements for UMass and Hampshire College and the weekend after that is uh Ammeris College. So uh this spring has really flown by. So I did want to talk about
the Jones Library. So the um we continue to make progress on that that this is a project that was put on rec asked me to work on when I began my job here. Um it's been in my goals every year since
um as and we are we move continue to move forward on it. The construction company that submitted the low bid, Fontaine Brothers, has confirmed its bid amount, which is what we asked them to do in early April when we said you have the we knew back in October they were
the low bid as did they, but we asked them to take action to confirm their bids from their sub biders because that was a question many people rightly so were asking because there's a question whether the bid was still good. So with when they were notified that they we
were going getting ready to move forward, we asked them affirmatively to con to confirm with all of their sub biders, which they did, and I reported on that to you uh at the last council meeting. Um the um there was a bid protest that was
filed by a resident and the filed with the attorney general and that bid protest was uh was um denied and didn't even warrant a hearing. Um subsequent to that the contractors uh
we had a deadline of April 30th from the MBLC. So the things that we really needed to happen, we needed the money to be in place and we had a have to add a willing contractor. So I u signed a contract with the contractor on April 18th after the council's meeting. It was
very clear to wait until after the council's meeting on April 14th before committing the town to anything. We needed to sign it on that date. Monday's a holiday because we had to have the paperwork into the MBLC by the 25th.
That gave the contractor just four three really work days to submit for and receive a building permit which he which they were able to to accomplish. So they had the building permit, we had the signed contractor with the cont with the with the signed contract with the
contractor and with that information um the MBLC was able to move forward and give us the next two payments which they are in process of doing. We also had confirmation from the council that there was not going to be a recision of the vote. That was an important piece as
well. So with all those pieces in place, um this project seems to be moving forward. Um there will always be there will continue to be things that pop up, I'm sure, but I'm confident that where we are now with the signed contract, with the MBLC's commitment, we'll be
able to begin this project. We think the launch date will be in mid June when that's when the um contractor will begin to um put set up fencing and things like that. Uh we have a lot of work to do between now and then. Uh we have
published and um we'll be securing a site for the temporary site for the library to conduct its operations on University Drive. uh we have to go out to bid and procure services to re to move all the books and the other material for the library. We have to
re-engage with the architect and with the OPM. So there's a lot of work and uh that still has to happen over the ne next few weeks which we are which Bob Parent is really handling in a very excellent way. So that's where we are. It's it's
um there's been a long road and a lot of um barriers placed in front of the town, but we're we've got all the signed documents that we need to move forward. Are there questions from the council?
Okay. Um president's report was in your packet. Are there any questions? future agenda items. Uh, let me just Yes, Pam Rooney. You're Pam, you've got your um your You
need to unmute. Thank you. I'm sorry I cut in front of future agenda items. Go ahead. Okay, I'll wait. U please go ahead. Go ahead, Pam. Okay. Thank you. I just I wanted to make a very short statement um
now that we're still in April that um this April 19th marks the 250th anniversary of the first armed resistance to the British king and the unjust laws and tariffs and taxes issued
by Parliament without representation of the by the colonies. I did a little homework. I participate every year in Lincoln and Conquered and Lexington, but had never actually looked at what Ammerst contributed to the
cause. And I learned that Ammerst in fact was very knowledgeable about what was happening uh in Boston and was very engaged in those proceedings. They participated with a commu uh a
committee of communication which was the the network of conversation between all of the colony all of the towns and colonies and they also had a representative who happened to be Nathaniel Dickinson. Big surprise on
that name. Lots of Dickinsons in this history. Nathaniel Dickinson was a representative of Ammerst to the first Massachusetts provincial congress held in conquered in October in 1774. So that would have been last fall
and also to the subsequent Congress in February of 1775. That's right. So, a company from Ammerst and the surrounding towns included about 60 Ammerst residents who
enlisted to march all the way to Cambridge uh upon the event of the Lexington and Conquered Battle. And they enlisted um and and marched they actually enlisted for 11 days and then
were discharged at the end of that duty. Um, but that was in response to the initial events of armed resistance. And I just thought it was kind of nice to recognize.
Thank you for that. Thank you very much. Um, Kathy, you have your hand up. Lyn, I wasn't sure where on the agenda. I have a comment that about myself that I was going to make, but if you're going to do agenda items,
I'll do it after that. I was going to do some I was going to talk about our next couple of meetings. Okay. Okay. And then I'll I just have a comment that I would like to make unrelated to those afterwards. If you do have a period that's called counselor comments comments. Yes. Okay. So, uh, as Paul has
already mentioned, next on Monday the 5th, which is just one night, one week away from tonight, uh, there will be a presentation on the budget. Uh, we believe we're also going to be taking up the Paulie Village. Um, referral to the planning board which requires a vote of
intent by the town council to accept it as a public road. Um, and I did have Transportation and Parking Commission, but I am assuming that that is not going to be ready by May 5th. On May 19th, we'll have two proclamations, one for Memorial Day, one
for race amity day. Uh, we'll have a vote hopefully on the regional school budget and assessment method. Um, uh, we'll have a presentation and discussion and possible vote on the percent for art
for the elementary school. Uh, and that kind of gets us through May and then June is budget, budget, budget. Uh, I just want to mention that when we on May 19th, at the time we would vote on the regional school budget, we would be the
third of four towns. By that point, two other towns will have already voted, but the other the final town does not vote until the 30th of May. 31st of May. Thank you. Okay. Councilor comments. Kathy,
just want to make sure no one has any comments on your agenda items. So, okay, an unusual one. Um, I just want to take a moment to apologize for my vote on the Jones Library project on April 14th. Some public comments noted there
were only three brave people uh despite the fact that I had brought forth a motion to resend. I don't really have a good excuse other than surprised by the format, not enough time to assess material and total lack of sleep. But
this is no excuse because I voted against myself and my best judgment. I apologize to the many residents who took who looked to me to stay calm, rational, and fiscally accountable. I realize my vote did not matter. It required nine
counselors to support rescending, but it mattered and it matters to me. Thus, my apology. Uh George, you have your hand up. Yeah, just FYI, uh, District 3 will be holding its, uh, district meeting this Sunday
at, um, Hickory Ridge, um, from 1:00 to 2:30. And if you're in the neighborhood, you're welcome to come join us. Please pray for nice weather. You also have a chance to explore the trail system. We're going to have Assistant Town Manager Dave Zomeck and Assistant Chief
Steve Goan uh, speaking. And uh so just FYI and District 2 has a meeting on Thursday, May 1st at 6:30. It's on Zoom and it's all about roads and sidewalks
and it specifically will have a comment period about Heatherstone and another comment period about the Grantwood area. Uh and we will be joined by DPW um Superintendent uh Guilford Moing. Um and
that is virtual. Yes. I'll get the Zoom link is posted. Yes. Yeah. On the town website. Okay. Yes. Yeah. And you can decide whether you want to enter the room or not. When we do district meetings, we invite people
if they want to enter to do that. Okay. Are there any other questions or comments from counselors? Seeing none, there's a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Uh Lyn Griezmer is an I. Councelor
Hanaki. I. Bob Hegner. I. Councelor Lord Tom. I. Thank you. Pam Rooney, yes. Councelor Ryan, hi. Kathy Shane, yes. Andy Steinberg, hi. Jennifer Tob, yes.
Councelor Walker, yes. Anna Delin Gothier, I councelor, I The meeting's adjourned. It's 9:18.