WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=LnpOemOk4M4

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: LnpOemOk4M4):
- 00:00:01: Town Services and Outreach Committee Meeting Opening Remarks
- 00:01:42: Public Comment: Darcy Dumont Advocates for Waste Reduction RFP
- 00:04:16: Public Comment: Councillor Kenna Martin Supports Waste Proposal
- 00:05:13: Mimi Kaplan's Waste Hauler RFP Update Presentation Introduction
- 00:07:41: Mimi Kaplan's Background and Project Introduction at PVPC
- 00:10:52: Compost Collection: Mandatory vs. Voluntary, Hauler Considerations
- 00:21:46: Pay-As-You-Throw System: Models and Considerations Discussion
- 00:24:46: Dual vs. Single Stream Recycling Hauler Considerations
- 00:27:11: Transfer Station Services: Options and Funding Scenarios
- 00:31:01: Cost Factors: Household Fees and Administration Considerations
- 00:33:11: Comparative Data and Next Steps: Roadmap Completion
- 00:35:59: Committee Questions and Clarifications for Mimi Kaplan
- 00:45:22: Susan Waide's Perspective: State Solid Waste Master Plan
- 00:51:50: Town Manager Bachelman and Councillors Discuss Composting
- 01:10:48: Committee Discussion and Setting Future Direction and Goals
- 01:38:38: Review and Recommendation of Town Manager Appointments
- 01:44:12: Future of Street Light Policy and Committee Discussion


Part: 1

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Okay, please go ahead. >> Good morning. It's Thursday, May 21, 2026. This is a regular meeting of the town services and outreach committee. Chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extended through June 30, 2027. Gives public

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bodies the ability to hold these kinds of meetings remotely. This meeting is accessible in real time via Zoom and by phone and it is being recorded. First, I want to make sure that everyone is present, can be heard. And I'm going to

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start with um Pam Rooney. >> I hear you. >> Thank you. Andy Churchel. >> Yeah. >> Councelor Lord, >> present. >> Uh councelor, excuse me, Paul. Town manager Bleman. >> Present.

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>> Thank you. And we have a guest, Mimi Kaplan from PVPC. Mimi, if you could just unmute and let us know we can hear you. Uh, yep. >> Great. Okay. So, everyone is here. Um, we begin normally with public comment

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and so we're going to start there this morning. Um, public comment on matters within the jurisdiction of this committee and residents are welcome to express their views for one to three minutes at the discretion of the committee chair based upon the number of people who want to speak. And uh here we

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see we have one hand at the moment and so uh if anyone else wishes to speak they can raise their hand. I'm going to recognize the one hand that is raised and as I wander around here.

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So Darcy Dumont if you would unmute and introduce yourself and uh you have three minutes. >> Hi uh my name is Darcy Dumont. I live in district three and am commenting on behalf of zero waste Ammerst.

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Um we thank Mimi Kaplan and the PVPC for the presentation she's going to be giving today. I I noticed it was in the packet. Um in June, it'll be two years from the date this body voted to recommend to the

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council that the town push forward with getting a cost estimate via an an RFP. An RFP can be issued without being binding on the town. As we know, the council doesn't have to adopt the proposal before issuing an RFP, and TSO

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doesn't have to finalize every decision before issuing an exploratory RFP. Assisting the council with this proposal has been a goal of the town manager for four years. The implementation of significant waste reduction and

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specifically of curbside compost pickup is a goal of the climate action and resilience plan. Many groups across the town are hoping for adoption of the proposal so that we can both reduce trash significantly and save residents money.

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In addition, waste reduction is a much more um is much more of a climate emissions reduction issue than previously thought. An exploratory RFP can request costs for basic services and then separate costs

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for a menu of options. We have examples of towns that have done this. ZWA has provided the town with a sample RFP and will gladly provide more assistance. Once responses are received, we can mix and match to see how much it would cost

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to provide different alternative services. This is a program that provides a lot of bang for the buck for residents and huge environmental benefits while not costing the town. Please move it forward. Thank

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you. Thank you. Um I see one other hand. Amber Amber Can Martin if you would unmute and speak. >> Yes. Hi everybody. Um I am just attending here um as another counselor

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who is um you know signing on to the waist holler proposal and um also uh showing up in favor of the um set issuing an exploratory RFP on this. Um so I don't know if I'm allowed to join as a panelist. Um if I am I don't want to you know make us a quorum of of the

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council but I'm happy to join as a panelist if it's possible. That's all I want to say. Thank you. Um, I have no objection if my colleagues have no objection. All right, Athena, if you could uh work your magic and bring Councelor Kenna

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Martin into the meeting as a panelist. I see no other hands for uh public comment. So, I'm going to end public comment. Next item on our Xander is the presentation by Mimi Kaplan on providing us with an update on the waist hauler uh

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RFP and I'm going to ask her to introduce herself and then make a presentation. Um before that I just wanted for the sake of I think at least two of my colleagues who are present and actually the third

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colleague who's here visiting uh just a bit of history um to this um and this is also in the packet. It's really the work of the previous chair Andy Steinberg in the uh carryover memo. I'm basically relying on that. But I

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think it's important that people understand that this proposal of amending general bylaw 3.3 refuge collection and recyclable materials goes back to 2022. Um in August 15, the town council uh

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which brought a u a proposal by councilors Ball Mil, Steinberg, Tob, and Walker. And that was in August of 2022. In uh for two years, it stayed with TSO. Um and I joined the committee in 2024.

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Um at that point in 2024, the council passed a motion advising the town manager to issue an RFP in accordance with seven specific goals that were laid out and in the motion. And that also is in the packet if anyone cares to read

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it. um town manager at the time advised the council that he did not have the capacity within the current staff to develop this RFP and he would seek a consultant. On November 18, 2024, the council approved $75,000

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uh for this uh waste hauler study, this RFP, and subsequently the manager hired Eric Weiss uh director of economic and municipal collaboration at PVPC for that purpose. and the the uh Mr. Weiss met with the

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committee in December 4, 2025. He presented scope of work for the project, talked about his experience and knowledge and then subsequently he left PVPC and uh Mimi Kaplan was brought on to the

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task and um so she is now going to carry this forward and she's going to address us. So, just a little bit of history um preparatory to Mimi's presentation. So, Mimi, take it away.

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All right. Thank you, Council Ryan. Uh so, um as as council Ryan stated, I took this project over from Eric a couple months ago. Um, and so I am a senior

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environmental planner at Piner Valley Planning Commission. I've been here for 5 years. Um, I have uh a very strong interest in solid waste issues. So I actually was excited to take this project on. Um, I have some experience

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in the area as well. I worked um which was actually in the town of Ammerst in from 2017 to 2019 approximately. I worked at the DPW in Ammerst as a waste reduction enforcement coordinator which was funded

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through a mass D grant. So I got very intimately familiar with solid waste um issues, concerns and services and Ammerst and I've been kind of following it um since then. Uh so um you know I

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appreciate everybody's patience because I know this has taken a long time even before it got to PVPC and now it's taken a longer time because of the transition from Eric to me but um so

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uh PVPC was hired to develop a road map for the town council in deciding um uh what to include in the RFP, although as Darcy mentioned and councelor Ryan mentioned, this has already been

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discussed pretty thoroughly. Um and then to actually develop the RFP and also um the bylaw revisions or to assist with those. Um so I have been working on

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the road map um and I will be finished with the road map as a it's a deliverable by June 30th but um we wanted to present have me present today with what um we have so far and

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outlining the decision points um the main decision points to be considered in issuing in developing and issuing the RFP. Um, so I guess I'm ready for the

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presentation. Um, I I'm not supposed to present it, right? It's through. >> You can share your slides, Mimi, or I can I have them queued up and I can put them on the screen. >> Um, I guess if you could because

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Paul made a change and I don't think I I didn't actually save that because I assumed you would be sharing it. Sorry about that. >> No worries. Everyone see okay that looks good. Um you could go to the next slide please.

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Um so I won't read through this. You can read it. Um and each of these will be explained in detail in the following slides just to say that the main decision points were um what the compost collection um

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curbside compost collection would look like different considerations for that as that um was one of the main um impetuses for for doing this um RFP and going to curbside collection.

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um implementing a pay as you throw system and what that would look like. Um what a collection scheduling system. Um what some possibilities are for that. What to do with the transfer station. Uh what services it could still be used

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for. Um and then looking a little bit at what would factor into the cost to the town and to households to do um a contract with a hauler for curbside collection townwide. So first looking at compost collection.

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Um as mentioned it is uh implementing townwide curbwide town townwide curbside compost collection is a strategy in the climate action and resilience plan. We know that it would divert

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um a or depending on how widely it is done um it would divert a significant amount from the waist stream uh as food scraps do make up one-third approximately of household trash. Um

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some some of the things to be considered are uh whether residential composting would be mandatory uh through a bylaw um or voluntary

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in the town. Um, and you know, I did uh quite a bit of research, talked to some haulers, talked to compost company, talked to some municipalities. Um, and there's all there's been a lot

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of research done before I started on this as well. um from my research um also uh Susan Weight who's the um Mass DP municipal assistance coordinator um works out of our office and she and I have spoken at length as well and she's

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a great resource. Um so currently it appears that only one municipality in Massachusetts actually um mandates residential food waste diversion through a bylaw. This is the town of Hamilton um

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in Eastern Mass. Um Cambridge has it as a goal. They recently issued a new solid waste master plan and they're they have a goal of mandating and enforcing it um in and putting that in place in the next 3 to 5

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years. Um obviously if it is mandatory, it has to be enforced in some way. Um the way it's enforced in Hamilton is uh the hauler so they their food waste is composted by Black Earth Composting but

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it is actually collected by their hauler Cassella. Um and Cassella has been instructed not to take the trash at a household if they do not also have their compost um container out with it. But there's no mandate about how much has

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they could have one apple core in their um their compost container, but they have to have it out and the Cassella will collect it along with the trash. So that's essentially how it's enforced there. Um Cambridge would have um a different way of enforcing it I believe,

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but it's in their master plan, solid waste master plan. Um, and so if the town wants to put it in the bylaw, that's that's it's just that needs to really be thought through. Um,

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how that would be done, what would be the timeline, how it would be enforced, um, obviously the costs, etc. Um so along with that is considering um

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how who's going to collect compost. Would it be a um the same large hauler that does all three waste streams? So there are four um hauling companies that operate in

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Western Mass currently that would likely respond to the RF or sorry RFP and that is USA Cassella Republic and Waste Management. Um currently as far as I'm aware only USA waste is currently equipped for compost

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collection. So they have the trucks they already do it in Ammerst for a small number of households. Um the other haulers could certainly become equipped um and if they wanted um to do

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this uh if they wanted to be the hauler and they bid on it um they would they would uh they would get the the equipment. Um but one big question obviously is what

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the cost would be. Um and um whether they do want to uh I mean I I think most likely they would say yes we can do it but they they would charge what they want to charge for it. Um, so depending

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on the cost, um, another way to go with it, and this is what the majority of communities in Massachusetts do right now, is to contract with the smaller composting business for compost collection. Um so either the town would

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contract with that um composting business or um they could use what's called a preferred vendor model which is the town doesn't contract the household subscribe but the town promotes this service with this particular compost

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company and they could subsidize it in some way. Um some ways that they might subsidize it are um purchasing the carts or the the bins. They could um just uh well another way is they can um what

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some towns do is they will um deduct something from water and sewer bills for people who have it. So they take a certain amount off that. So there's different ways the town could subsidize it. Um, and in Eastern Mass, um, the

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largest compost company is Black Earth. They work with, I mean, more than 20 communities as far as I'm aware. There's about two or three others. Um, and there are some companies out here. What I

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still need to ascertain is I none of them have the capacity right now to do curbside collection from all one to four family households in Ammerst. Um there's a company called Banana Compost in Lello.

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Um and they may already be collecting from some houses in Ammerst. They list Ammerst as one of their communities. Um but whether they could, whether they would want to um uh collect townwide, whether they could,

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whether they could scale up is unknown. Um so currently, and um I don't know how much detail you want on this, but I did have I did um talk to Black Earth about their the potential for them coming out

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to Ammerst and what that would require. So, I don't want to get too far into the weeds, they say. Um, but if anyone is interested, I can I can talk more in detail about Black Earth as a as a possibility. Um, and then just thinking

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about the timing and the scope of implementing this. Um, so again, what I believe just about every community has done is start with a pilot program. um you don't immediate they don't immediately make it available townwide

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um and it's po I think Hamilton also started with a pilot program. I'm actually I know that they did before they decided to make it a townwide um system. Um so that could be just with some households that sign up. That

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wouldn't be hard in Ammerst as there's already a number of households that participate. um and then over say like a a few years scale up to all of the households. But that also means well how is that done? If it's voluntary, it's not going to be

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all the households. Um but there's ways of doing outreach and incentivizing it that you could you could see an increase. And this is what most communities that do this in Eastern Mass have done um is slowly scale up. Um but

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you know, you're still only talking about, you know, less than 50% of households um participating and it can take a long time to get up to that a percentage like that. Um and then another consideration is if you're if

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the town is also implementing an entirely new trash and recycling curbside system with like a new hauler, maybe a new pay as you throw system, etc. um does it make sense to also implement curbside compost collection at that time? And I think you know you could

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start with a pilot program that same year or um you could wait just get everybody used to trash and recycling, you know, do a lot of outreach about composting, say this is starting in a year and then and then implement it and you know, so

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there's different ways different ways you could do it. But those are all just things to consider. And you know this doesn't you don't have to know all this of course to to develop and issue the RFP but just it's good I think it's good to be thinking about this level of

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detail. All right sorry go ahead next slide. Um so you probably all know what a pay as you throw model is. Basically, it's um charging additional um fee for households who produce more

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trash. The more you throw away, the more you pay. So, financially incentivizing producing less trash. Um and there's different ways to do this. It has been shown in data to be effective in reducing trash volume. Um

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and I mean an example is that the end the transfer station currently does use this system with bags costing $3 each. Um so um in looking at data um talking to towns

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the it seems like the most common way this is done um that I'm aware of is where the hauler provides generally a smaller than average trash container if the town is serious about doing this the smaller one like a 35gallon 34 to 35 um

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and then any excess trash has to be placed in a pay as you throw overflow bag, which um households have to purchase. Usually it's like 10 sold in 10 for $30 or something like that. Um uh sometimes it could be a larger trash

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container. Doesn't have to be that small, but obviously you're going to be providing more of an incentive with a smaller container. Um, another way to do it simplified is the hauler offers two or three differentiz trash containers

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with a lower fee for the smaller size container. Um, this was done for years in Ammerst back when the smaller haulers were in service like Dusso and Ammerst Trucking. They all they had three containers and there were pretty

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significant cost differences. But now, um, USA only offers two, I can't I know Darcy would know this, but they offer two to three sizes, but there's a very small cost difference, so it doesn't significantly impact behavior. Um, and

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then another model that I hadn't thought of till I spoke with um, John Brderick in South Hadley um, is that the hauler can collect trash every other week. Um, so this is what they do in South Hadley. They have a 65gallon container. Um, but

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it's only every other week. Um, and any excess trash has to be brought to the transfer station for a fee. Um, and so that effectively functions as a pay as youth row system. Um, let me see if there was anything

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else I wanted to say about that. Um, just in talking to other communities, I know Long Meadow uses a 35gallon, East Long Meadow 35 gallon, and they have the pay as you throw bags. Awam uses a 65gallon, but they also have pay as you throw bags and they're very strict about

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like you can't have anything extra like the the cover has to be completely closed. Um, all right. So, those are just some considerations for pay as you throw. Again, sorry if I'm going way too far into detail for you.

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Um, next slide, please. Uh something else to consider even though this wasn't brought up in the top priorities for the RFP um is whether uh the hauler does dual or single stream.

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Um currently it's split in Ammerst because the transfer station if you go there you do dual stream and you separate containers and paper. Uh if you have collection from USA it's single stream and it's all mixed together. Um

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my understanding is that all ours will generally charge less for single stream recycling just because it's easier um for them. Uh it's also obviously somewhat easier for the homeowner, the resident. Um,

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but dual stream recycling has the advantage of there's less contamination, better quality, results in higher recycling rates, higher prices for end markets, which if the town is doing some type of cost share, um, they can get some of the benefit of that. Um,

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but the haulers, I believe, will generally charge higher for dual stream. Um, but I don't know and you'll that's what you'll find out from an RFP. Um, and just one other note about that is if

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it's dual stream, it goes to the MURF in Springfield. Um, and if it's single stream, it's going to go to another facility like um, USA brings it to their facility in um, Connecticut. Uh

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and then um you know generally trash is collected once a week and if it's single stream recycling it's usually collected on the same schedule. With dual stream I also think generally collection would be alternating weeks one for paper one for containers. Um and then as I mentioned

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with South Hadley you could look at a every two weeks for trash. Um, if a lot of households are composting, I feel like that would make that more successful and palatable um for households because in summer months, if

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not, I would think in two weeks you would have some issues with odor. Um, all right, next slide, please. Okay, now the issue of the transfer station. um according to

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the data from I think this is from zero waste survey um 27% well well then that okay sorry no this I think this is data from Steve Tlega um

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27% of Ammerst households have permits however some of them also have USA subscriptions so I don't know if we actually know exactly how many um households just use the transfer station maybe we could assume you know maybe

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20%. Obviously it it serves a lot of functions in addition to the household trash and recycling and compost disposal. There's also the bulky items, the hard to recycle items. Um and it is less expensive

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um for waste disposal than a subscription if households don't produce a lot of trash. If you did, then with the pay as you throw model, you're paying actually not that much less than you would for um a subscription. Uh so, you know, I said decision points

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are whether to keep it open, but it seems like the general consensus is to keep it open. Um so, if so, what services would it offer and what fees to charge for these services? So, I laid out some possible options. Um

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the transport station could just be eliminated as a possibility for bringing household trash, recycling, and compost. Um but it could be kept open for households to dispose of their bulky waste, their hard to recycle items and yard wastes

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and other things like hazardous waste collections. And then the only option for households to opt out of the contracted service would be to subscribe with another hauler which is pretty unlikely for them to do. So you know I think that would lead to pretty high

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participation rates um in the the contracted service. Um, another option, um, is to keep the transfer station open and available for household trash, recycling, and compost,

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but raise the fees so that it would be more competitive and in line with the contracted service. Not sure how much sense that makes, but I think, you know, that is an option. Um, and then one idea is in either scenario, the town could add a small

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additional charge for every household with the contracted service so that they could continue to use the transfer station for services besides their household trash and recycling um like the bulky waste, the all of those

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things. Um, the yard waste. So that and that would continue to provide some funding um for the transfer station, although it would obviously have less um to do, you know, it just wouldn't

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it probably wouldn't have as many hours, etc. as it does currently. Um, oh, I did in thinking about the South Hadley model. I guess one other option is if the town did something similar

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that as a pay as you throw model where households would have to bring their overflow trash to deposit at the transfer station for a fee. That's that's another thing to that's another option to consider. Um, the way South Hadley does it is they charge a $ five

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dollar $5 convenience fee anytime someone has to do that and plus a dollar a bag. So that's all funding for the transfer station. Um, next slide please. Okay. So, I was informed that the

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preferred system, you know, a lot of towns just have waste collection as part of the um assessed property taxes, but that this would be a separate fee for households. Um when when the town moves

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to doing a contracted model um and also that it's important that the revenue from this would need to cover all program costs, including administration. So, when we were looking at costs here, um we we made an assumption that the

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town would require a full-time employee to administer the program, which would include all of the contracting, communication, um billing, you know, handling complaints, although that can go to the hauler, publicity and outreach, you

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know, all of those things. Um although I will say that in talking to other communities um like Long Meadow, East Long Meadow has a halftime person. Awam has someone who's 70%. Um so I I definitely think one full-time person

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would be able to to handle this. Um and then just thinking of the factors that will determine both the household cost and the town revenue stream is the percentage of households participating out of approximately 5,50 1 to four family households.

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um the salary benefits of this the administrative staff um obviously what the hauler is going to charge um for collection fees um for trash and recycling and possibly additional charge for compost collection either the same

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hauler or a different hauler. Um and then the additional disposal fees which can vary because it's based on the tipping fee per ton. um that's a smaller amount than the collection. Um and you know if if there is a high

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participation rate in composting that's going to reduce slightly what the disposal fee costs but um it's a smaller percentage of the overall household cost than the collection. Um, and then whatever the town would

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have to charge above that to cover the administrative cost and also possibly to allow access to the transfer station if you did that. Next slide. Thanks. Um, so just in looking at some data, this wasn't public data. It was from a hauler contract

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working group. Um, but it was about Oh yeah, it was 42 communities. And the collection costs I'm saying collection costs but actually I I figured in approximately what the disposal would So this would be the total cost for households varied from a

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low of approximately 200 annually per household up to a high of about 525 per household with I it looked to me but I didn't average it but it looked like the average was somehow where in the like low 300s.

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Um but of course that's just 42 communities. Um and then oh and compost collection was not included in any of those costs. So that would be an additional amount which we do not know yet what that would be.

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Okay. Okay. So the next steps um as I mentioned finishing the road map um and then sharing that um by June 30th um developing multi-year budget projections

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um preparing an RFP based on and utilizing some feedback I assume from the TSO about what that would include. um for review by September 30th. And

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also one possibility in that within that window of time is to meet individually with haulers, which was suggested um that's maybe the DPW would do that. We'd have to figure out who would who would

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do that. Um and and um get information from them before actually issuing the RFP. Um, and then working on um revising the bylaws. Um, which I said 10:30. I don't know if

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that's realistic, but yeah. All right, that's it. Thank you for listening. Sorry for I felt like I was very uh wordy. >> Mimi, there's just a lot here. And so, no, it's not wordy. Um, it's there's just a tremendous amount of detail. Um,

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I think everyone appreciates that. And um this is a great step forward. Um and so I want to turn it now to the members of the committee and um give them an opportunity

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uh to ask questions, seek clarification um and then when that's done, we can talk a little bit about what we think our next steps are. Um Andy Churchill, go ahead. Thanks Mimi. That was that that was

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perfect amounts of words. I didn't find it wordy too wordy at all. It was very helpful. Um you raised a couple of question or a couple of questions along the way that I was curious about. one, you said that um in terms of mandatory composting

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um Hamilton requires a compost container to be out and you you said Cambridge has a different means of enforcement or is proposing a different means of enforcement. I'm curious what that is. >> Yeah. Um and I actually don't know for

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sure. Um, but I have um their solid waste master plan uh here and I will look at it, but I probably shouldn't do it right now because that would take too much time. >> But I can get back I can get back to you

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with that information if they include it. They may actually not know for sure. What they did say was that they were really going to focus on outreach and education in the beginning, you know, prior to enforcement is to obviously

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um just get as many households on board as possible just through the outreach piece of it >> and also just explaining, you know, what's involved and hoping to get as

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much participation as possible before moving moving to the enforcement, but I will look I will find that out what I'll see what their information is what's available. >> And then you said the other the other thing I not noted was you meant you you gave us a teaser on on a story about

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black earth and your com conversation with them about coming west and I'm curious if there's you know a brief summary of that. >> Yeah. Um, also I will say regarding um Hamilton what they said because they're

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the ones that um you know it comes to their facility. He he told me um Connor I I for there was two people there who I spoke with um he said he didn't think that once they made it mandatory that

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actually the volume of food waste increased. He said people are putting out their compost bins so that they're in line with, you know, so that they'll get their trash collected. But he was the one who said, "But sometimes it just has an apple core in it, you you know,

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so that that just points to the the the whole idea of outreach and education and other ways of getting people on board and not just the enforcement piece, but um okay that so um Black Earth is very

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interested in coming west um and increasing um you know their their number of households they service. Um they are currently only going as far west as Worcester. Um but they do have a facility in

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Framingham. However, they they would need something closer. They would need a facility that's closer. So, I was informed, I believe this is from Darcy, that um Martin's Farm in Greenfield um which is our largest composting

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facility to us um that they do have capacity for, you know, all of the one to four family households in Ammerst if if the town went townwide. Um and

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um Connor from Black Earth said they would be okay with delivering to Martin's farm, but ideally they would want to have their own facility out here. Um but also they would need um like a

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certain percentage of households in order for it to make it worth it you know for them for them to come out here. Um and he was talking about how you know like one great scenario would be um you

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get like three communities you know to go in on an RFP. And I was thinking, oh, like Northampton and East Hampton, two other communities that do subscription that probably would love to also have curbside compost. Um, you know, and then

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having like a regional um composting facility out here, but obviously that kind of scenario would take a while um to set up. Uh but there was interest. Um uh you know I'm forgetting some of the

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details. Um I can also I can also share um I can just write out some of the details of what he told me and and share that with the TSO. Um because I feel like I'm forgetting a few

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things that he told me. um because they are they are the company I feel like that has the biggest capacity that would be the most likely um if you're looking at a smaller company um be able to

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to handle all of the food waste from Ammerst and also where you could have some confidence that they're not just gonna you know fold in the next you know five years or something like they you know they really are they've really grown and they have three composting

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facilities through the state and they work with many municipalities. >> Yeah. >> Good. Andy, any more questions? Uh Pam Rooney, >> thanks. I really enjoyed this um not having been on TSO before. This is the

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first time I'm getting a lot of these details. So, I appreciate it. I'm seeing an enormous spreadsheet with all of these various options and costs associated with each um to wade through at some point. Uh you talked about the

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average costs in 42 communities ranging everywhere from 200 to 500 something. And I wondered if those are based on subscriptions or are they all subscription

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or are they any of these town managed? Is there a difference? >> No, no, those are all town those are all town managed. Those are all >> contract town. Okay. Okay. So, not at all subscription. Oh, good. Okay. Um, I was I was estimating my own personal

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costs and it's around 250 a year with a permit to transfer station and and the blue bags. Um, so that seems that seems pretty reasonable. Um, yeah, I I don't have other specific

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questions. I guess I'm I'm learning. Appreciate it. >> Okay. Yeah. Thanks. >> So, um, again, I'm looking for any further u questions. I have someone in the audience, but let me hang on for a

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second. Uh, counselor Churchill, go ahead. >> Yeah, I I guess I'm curious about what this what your sense is of the big companies. You said there were four haulers in Western Mass. um what's their

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capacity to do the uh composting? I think you said that USA was the only one currently doing that, but you know, >> yeah, I think you know they could do it. They just would have to purchase. It's a different truck that can handle the you know the moisture level and the weight

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and etc of just food waste. Um so they could certainly do it. The question is what they would charge. So, Long Meadow um in when they I don't know what year this was actually, they issued an RFP that included compost collection,

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curbside compost collection, and the costs came in too high and they decided not to do it. And I was also informed by Black Earth um that this happened with six communities in Eastern Mass that they work with Arlington,

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uh I can't remember all of them, all just kind of like Metro Boston. Um that, you know, they put it in their RFP. The large haulers did bid and include it, but they raised the cost so much to include it that they felt it was not

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workable. And so they ended up working with black earth. >> So I see uh a hand raised in the audience. The hand belongs to Susan Wait. And I would uh unless there's objection from the committee, I would uh

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ask Susan to unmute um and to ask her question. Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> Barely. >> Oh, well. Um, so hi everybody. I am My name is Susan Wade. I am the municipal

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assistance coordinator for Western Mass for Mass E's Bureau of Air and Waste. I work with municipalities to help them uh try to divert as much um valuable material as possible from their trash. So um I wanted to make three points. The

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first is that Massachusetts has a solid waste master plan. Um, and when you read it and follow some of the committees that discuss its points and its goals and uh, successes and failures, you will

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find that composting and diversion of compost is a a major focus um, for the next 5 years I would say. Um there have been discussions in some of the meetings. Uh

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you probably are aware that we have a commercial food waste ban for organizations, institutions, uh businesses that produce more than 1/2 ton per week of food waste. They are required to separate it and have it

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composted. Um there are there will be changes to that threshold. Um the the solid waste advisory committee has been discussing this and I can direct you to some of those conversations if you are interested. Um but it looks like that

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threshold is going to be going away um within the next 3 to 5 years and that there will be additional attention paid to residential compost um diversion as well. So, I just I wanted to share that with you because

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the landscape is changing. You know, as time marches on, the landscape is changing. The state of Massachusetts has a little bit of a waste capacity challenge in that we have lost we've a lot of our landfills have filled up. Um,

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we've we have minimal incineration facilities. We lost two in here in Western Mass. Most of Western Mass trash is shipped out of state. Um, some of it goes to New York. Um, material from Franklin County used to go

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to South Carolina. So, we're having to Pennsylvania, we're having to send our waste farther and farther a field. So to to be sending material that we know has value, whether as a as a compost soil

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additive or um aluminum cans that we know have great value and and paper to be shipping that material out of state distances just makes absolutely no sense. it's the costs are going to continue to escalate with fuel increases

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with um we're also vulnerable in terms of labor issues and strikes and so it's just not a good situation and so the whole goal is to reduce the divert as much possible material that has value

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that can be used locally that can be sold locally and then ship the rest out of town so out of the state right so that that's the that's kind of the goal. And so, um, the solid waste master plan has been looking at,

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you know, we we you learned about mattress, uh, we have a mattress waistband, we've got a textile waistband, the food waistband is here. It's going to be expanded um, in the next definitely 10 years, I would guess. But again, I'm not the

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expert. I can share the information with you and you can speak with some of the experts yourself. So that's one point that I just wanted to make is that the landscape is there. I also wanted to say that um as you may know there are some large large communities all over the

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nation that are starting to compost more. Um so we can learn a lot from how those things have worked. This is kind of a forwardthinking opportunity. We have an we have an opportunity in Ammeris to be a

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um kind of a trailblazer. Um because we are a small densely populated community, it's very likely that it's attractive to hauler to to use Ammerst as a uh

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prototype for this kind of um this kind of project because they know that more and more food waste collection is going to be happening. So, what a great opportunity to try it in a small community where they don't have to invest a whole lot of money in trucks

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and everything like that. You know, just one or two trucks would would take care of it in Ammerst. So, it's it's um it's an interesting opportunity for haulers. Um and there are haulers out there. And the last point I wanted to make is that

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mass mass D because of these goals, they are making money available to businesses um to expand their capacity for handling some of these waist streams. So there

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there is money out there for even small businesses like Tommy's Compost in the Birkshars to a add equipment to help them um accommodate and serve more communities. So so Mass E is making

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money available to to organizations to help expand their capacity. So, those are the key things key points I wanted to make. And I just wanted to say I'm happy to answer questions. Um, Mimi is doing a great job and um

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uh I I would love to see this move forward in any uh uh Yeah, I'd love to see this move forward. I guess that's it. Thanks. >> Thank you, Susan.

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Um Tom manager Bachelman. >> Thank you. So that's um so hope so Susan's still here I hope. So there's two things I had. One one is what I thought I think that's really important comment was that this is that laying the groundwork for comp curbside

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composting sounds like what what she's advising. I mean we we do curbside composting with Black Earth and it initially there's a lot of our households had resistance but it's been pretty normalized now. I think that's what the normal process is. It's like recycling.

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Um and so but I think that um it's a delicate situation because I know we had a counselor previously who was just totally up, you know, opposed to, you know, composting in his his household. So I think it's it's going there's a lot of uh education that would have to go

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with it. And I guess my question to Mimi or to um Susan would or maybe to Mimi is since there's there's funding to um haulers, is there is there money available for cities and towns to implement any of these innovative or newer things like curbside composting or

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any kind of things that might reduce waste? >> I don't know if Susan's still there. I know there is there is funding. I know there are grants available for starting up composting, curbside composting. Susan would have way more information on that than me.

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>> She has her hand up. >> Susan, go ahead. >> Yeah, sure. Yes, there is. Um, actually, there's there's been money. This is one of the ways that you can kind of uh get a sense of what's important for uh what's what's going to be happening in

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the future. The U Mast DP has offered curbside composting um grants for a couple years now where they provide a certain amount of money per household. I think it's $25 per household to go toward the purchase of

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curbside carts. And we've had I think about eight eight or 10 communities were given this grant uh in 2025. So, you're going to be seeing more and more communities who are either starting a uh phased in approach

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where they're starting with a small group of pe of residents and then they're planning to expand it um or they're going to be going uh full full hog uh with the program. So, that that's available now. That money is available

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now. And um with I will say my experience has been once a food waste ban has I mean once a waste ban is finalized sometimes that money goes away. When it's when a food waste ban is in the future there's there there seems

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to be opportunities to um to be early adopters and get assistance. But then once the once the base span is out there, that money usually go goes away. >> I'll just add on to that that um Black

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Earth, they did mention that many of the communities they work with started up their pilot programs with the D grants. >> Councor Rooney, >> uh somebody mentioned that Amoris is a fairly dense community. Um, so an easy

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starting point, but I wonder if all of our calculations have included the compost material generated uh on the university. I think I I think I'm aware that they have a fairly robust food compost. Could

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be on their own property. I don't know. But at one point they were they were shipping material to probably Martin's farm. So are we are we if we incorporate UMass, yes, we have a really dense 40 40,000 person

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population. If we don't include UMass, um it's a much smaller, more dispersed population. >> Good point. >> Susan, were you going to respond to that? >> Yes. Can you hear me

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>> please? >> Okay. Um, I just wanted to say by by pop I meant population dense in terms of um distance that a hauler needs to to to go to collect material. So in in a lot of communities in Western

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Mass um even Long Meadow, you know, etc. there there's a lot of distance between the houses there. So, so to to have a route where you're collecting trash or recycling or compost, the the further the the the yards or distance between

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one house and another, the more fuel expense and labor expense there is. So, Ammer, that's what I meant. I meant um densely densely uh densely settled. Yes.

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>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. But I still I still have a question. If if we're calculating volume based on production of you know a third of the population not contributing, how does

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that affect us? >> Council. Um >> so we are currently a subscriptionbased um operation in Ammerst. So the house

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the res residents pay the you know choose their hauler which I guess there isn't a lot of choice and then or they go to the transfer station. So Pam pays 200 something I pay 5006 you know somewhere around 550 I think.

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Um, so how do we compare and what are the things to think about as we compare a subscription service to a town you know sub a town run service I

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guess um are we going to see will will I see you know will I pay less and Pam will be expected to pay more or the same as you know are the benefits it's different and

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um you know do we do we expect I guess if we have town if everybody has the same service the composting piece would probably be more effective um you could require certain things rather than you can't necessar I you know I'm just

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trying to figure out how do we compare the pluses and minuses of a subscription service and a transfer station to a townun contract, you know, with or without a transfer station. I don't know how to I don't know how to

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I mean, I know you you talked about certain decision points, but I'm when you're weighing, you know, what's the problem we're facing now versus um you know, what what are the problems we're going to face with a different system or or benefits? You know what I mean?

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>> Well, I think the cost is going to be lower for the subscription. people who currently have a subscription, it would be lower through a contracted model. I don't know how much lower. It that definitely depends on the whole

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composting piece. Um, you know, that 525 was kind of an outlier in that group of 42 communities. As I mentioned, most of the costs um were probably under like 400. Um, but

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it's then probably going to be more for some of the people that currently use the transfer station, but that's about 20% versus 80% of households. Um, so yeah, I think Susan probably

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wants to comment on that. >> I'm not sure if I have if I'm uh if my speaker my microphone is on or not. >> It is on. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Okay. Terrific. Thank you. I I just wanted to say that the um when you talk

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about costs, um we have to do a kind of full cost accounting on both sides. So Pam has a lower cost, but she is paying for gas. She's using her personal time to drive it to the transfer station, etc. So there's there's a lot of

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different kinds of costs that you need to think about in addition to the financial cost. So, that certainly can be done. Um, I'm I'm sure that that Mimi um can and her uh her team can come up

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with something to kind of do a cost comparison. Um, but the there are also costs of running the transfer station. So for instance, Pam because she has the transfer station as an option, the town is paying for the

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operation and labor at that transfer station. So those things in theory could go away uh those costs. So you know, you have to I just want to make the point that we need to look at all the costs

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involved with both options. Paul >> yeah I think that's that's absolutely right and I think you know I think the the key questions are do you want to keep the transfer station open or not uh I think some haulers would say close the transfer station we want exclusive

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rights and we will bid lower um if you do I think other holler but I think the council's perspective is that the transfer station is of high value especially with our population so I don't think there was a lot of interest from the council in closing the transfer station But I think um Mimi put some

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interesting things together that maybe you have access to transfer station as part of your subscription. I think that was a really interesting model. Um but I think you know we are we need to really understand the full cost implication. This is a service that town does not provide now other than transfer station.

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We would be taking creating a new department in essence to take on the um management of the trash system. um it would be probably filtered as a an uh enterprise fund um much like water and sewer is now and we already do it for

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waste uh for solid waste. Um and in terms I think we would you know we've our finance department is starting to look into this a little bit more deeply. Um, and then compared to other communities and I know they Mimi has done a lot of work on this already and we just want to make sure all the

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numbers are are pretty crunched down before and because I think that's going to be a pivotal piece for the council and your considerations. You're going to need to say, "Well, this all sounds great, but what's it going to cost? Is it going to cost more or less? How much less if it's going to cost less? And how how long is that guaranteed?"

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So, I think that's the next phase in terms of your decision-making process. Pam. >> Yeah, just sort of a followup. Um, I was envisioning if it if we kept the

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transfer station, again, there's a uh it's an enterprise fund. So, >> theoretically, it's not a new department. It's it could be a it could be a uh red directed department

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still serving as enterprise. Um, I mean, so my my my cost then would include the the dump the permit fee, >> the annual permit fee, which goes to Enterprise Fund, um, as well as whatever

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I pay to throw actual trash. Um, if if we had a transfer station that allowed for the bulky materials and or the the yard waste, those are all fees on top of whatever I pay for my permit, my annual

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permit. So, those kinds of um incomes, I guess you could say, wouldn't disappear if we kept the transfer station. I'm done.

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>> Sorry, I was muted. I'm typing and it's Sorry, Amber, please. >> Yes. Um, I guess so. My understanding from from what I've read about this is that um we so we wouldn't be adding

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additional costs because the the program would be self- sustaining through the fees that residents would pay to participate. Um and so I I it doesn't seem to me like it would add a cost to the town. Um but Mimi, I was just wondering of the towns that you've looked at and studied that have done

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this, are they able to run this program in a self- sustaining way? H I don't know that I've done enough research on that aspect of it to be able to answer that. They It's all done in so many different ways. Like it's done through the taxes, it's done through

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um that seems to be more common. Um >> Okay. >> But I don't know, maybe Susan would have more information on that. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean it seems like adding one FTE or or less than one FTE

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shouldn't shouldn't be prohibitive to deal with like the billing and so forth. >> Yeah. And as I mentioned, some of these other communities don't even have a full-time, >> right, >> person, but they're they may not be handling other things such as the

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compost piece or they may not be doing as much outreach as you would want someone to do in Ammerst. Yeah. >> Correct. and whe and whether they handle the complaints or the hauler handles the complaints or which complaints, things like that. >> And that would be something that we could put in the contract assuming

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contract the hauler. Okay. >> One of the primary benefits uh or the primary benefactor I I I will no beneficiary. I always get those confused. The primary beneficiary I in

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in my eyes to this whole program is largely going to be the residents. They're they um we see that when a municipal organization contracts with a single hauler the the fees just go down. I mean it's it's it's a it's a economies

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of scale. They're able to do things more efficiently, more effectively and um they're bidding in a in a competitive environment. So, we almost always see the the price I will say

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um we almost always see the price go down in the collection fees, curbside collection fees from subscription service. So, whatever Andy's paying, if he's paying $400 or $500, it's going to be much less

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than that. That's assuming uh the data that we have is without compost collection. So with compost collection, that's the big question. It's like, is is it going to be a lot less or is it going to be a little less or is it going to be more? Is it going to be the same as what Andy's paying now? That's the

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that's something that needs to be figured out and that's what an RFP would allow you to determine. Um, I did just also want to say that when we were talking about the uses of the transfer station, um, because it is site assigned

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and has all the right permitting for Massachusetts, it's possible that a hauler would like to use that site as an aggregation site so that they wouldn't have to um, ship all the trash and recycling they pick up

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um, to their facility um, in Springfield or Connecticut or whatever. ever. They could have 100yard rolloffs located at the transfer station and the dump the collection vehicles could just dump into there and then the rolloffs could go out

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to the final spot. So that's another um potential use of the transfer station and and you could even have that in addition to it being open to the public. So for instance, if collection days are on Mondays and Wednesdays um or Monday,

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Tuesday, Wednesdays, then the transfer station could be open to the public without interference of major um you know semis going through on on the weekend. >> I'm just can I just jump in there and just add one thing? Um, black in terms

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of economies of scale, black earth also they significantly reduce their rate with each like a certain percentage increase in participation. Um, so just something to consider.

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Andy, >> it sounds like um an RFP could include, you know, give us pricing and service levels for all three components, trash, recycling, and composting, or give us,

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you know, you know, a proposal for the trash and recycling, and then offer compost specific people to bid. um just on the compost piece and be able to compare those like whe whether it's you know whether what whe whether the

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best package would be with an all-in-one provider or whether it would be you know let the PE let let the the haulers who you know the the chosen hauler do what they do now and then have a specific compost um contract separately and then

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maybe they would do that better. So those are those sound like two options. Is is that is that second model of the the mainstream hauler does the first two and you know Black Earth or whoever does does the composting is that what a lot

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of places in Eastern Mass are doing. >> For my research, yes, that's that's the the model that I'm seeing most often. Yeah. So, um, we've been at this, uh, a bit over an hour and, um, this is a great

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conversation, lots of good insights, information. Um, I wanted to give this about 90 minutes max and I wanted to give some time to next steps. Um, Mimi has outlined next steps in her presentation.

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Um and but I think also we as a committee I think need to talk for a few minutes about what we see as the next steps. What she has listed here in her presentation is to finish the road map and that would be at the end of June and

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then a multi-year budget projections and then an RFP for review in the end of September at the moment is the timeline. Um, I need to hear from you all and also obviously from Paul and Mimi as to what

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um is realistic, what's budgeted, what's uh is Mimi with us until at least uh October uh 30th of this year. Yeah, Paul's smiling. >> I think our contract runs to the end of the calendar year. I'm not totally sure.

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Okay. So that I don't want to get into I mean this is but these are questions that certainly we all have in terms of what we can ask of Mimi, what we can reasonably expect of her. Um what Andy has just mentioned I think an excellent you know sort of some budgeting scenarios that we're going to need to

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have some clarity on. So what has the greatest priority from what we want from her over the next uh over as long as we have her. Um, so that's kind of where I'm at at the moment, trying to get some for the next few minutes if we could just get some sense of where we're going

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next. Um, either are we going to follow the next steps that are out here on the slide in front of me. I don't know if we can put that up on the screen, but essentially there are five bullet items there that spell out what Mimi is suggesting would be next steps. What do

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my colleagues think about next steps? What does the manager think about next steps? So, Pam Rooney, >> I think next steps are great. >> The ones that the ones that Mimi laid out are are seem very reasonable. My

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question is on bullet number two, which was develop a multi-year budget projection. And I'm not sure what we would be basing that on since we I um I guess it's it's a takeoff of what's coming out of the road map. And so that

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there are I'm guessing different scenarios identified within the road map that we would get at the end of June. Otherwise, it's it's really tough to understand what we're budgeting towards without some real financial numbers.

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Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. >> Maybe we put that in the wrong order. Maybe that would be after getting >> I think getting some concrete uh numbers about possible scenarios would be a very important step if not the first step um

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for a future conversation and help guide us um is my initial thought. Um Amber, >> yes. Um, I was just wondering if would be possible to have uh the draft RFP actually for the end of June that we could react to um just to to move that

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up a bit. Um I mean I feel like the this road map was really helpful. Maybe if before the RFP if we could have also a chance to have folks weigh in on like what are the you know all these decision points of like you know that are outlined in the presentation like what

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folks's preferences are and then I agree with like the you know what are the financial implications um if we could get you know more specific numbers that would be helpful but but yeah I mean I think it's there are some decision points here and that it would be helpful if TSO could weigh in on before it goes

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to the council. Andy, I guess I'd like to see a a spreadsheet of some sample towns that are doing this. Like what, you know, do how many towns are doing all three? How

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many are doing two with a compost separate compost hauler? What are the residents paying? How's it, you know, what's the what's the municipality paying? Something like that so that we could just have concrete examples. I mean, it's it's excite, you know, it's nice to

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hear Agawan is doing such and such and, you know, it's cost it's costing people not that much, but they're not doing they're not doing composting, I guess. But I think it's helpful to just be able to see, you know, maybe we're what we're

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asking for is something that a lot of other towns aren't doing. So that makes it a little harder to to give examples. But to the extent that we can see, you know, what a townwide contracted waste hauler looks like, even if it doesn't have comp composting, that's helpful.

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And then if you know what a townwide contracted composting looks like, um it would be just I would find that helpful or or some examples of the different models or whatever. So and

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I think what we're hearing is that well I think yeah for instance some communities use property tax to pay for it and how you going to how you going to sort through that um you know I think we're really what we're envisioning and I'm I'm happy to be corrected or offer for

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alternatives. But whatever we're imagining, if something were to happen, would be an enterprise fund of some kind. Have to be self-supporting, have to pay by fees. It's not going to be something added to uh the the overall property tax and to the operational budget. It's going to be something that

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has to pay for itself. Um I think we're also hearing that um there's some interest in some of these players in the compost field uh coming out to this part of the world, but that is probably not something that's going to be answered in the next few months and in the time frame that we're thinking about, but

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perhaps that's a conversation that that we can pursue. Um the longer term is the thought of communities within the area gathering together and making this, you know, some kind of of of longer range project around composting. Susan, I

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think, is quite uh articulate about how where the way the landscape is changing and the direction things are going. So, it's probably prudent if not if nothing else for us to get ahead of the game as much as we can. We're going to need some I think some real numbers to at least focus our thinking. I think we're going

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to have to approach this though as something that is a self funding, self- sustaining enterprise fund. Um the idea that we can add um you know staff uh is fine if it's being paid for out of the enterprise fund. Um so I think there's

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certain givens that I'm assuming but I'm happy to be corrected if somebody thinks otherwise that we would say to Mimi um this these are just things we're going to these are givens. Um so it's it's pointless to send her off to do research on towns that do this in a totally

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different way. um if there's information or data that would be useful uh describing those kinds of models. I think we need some questions and maybe we won't generate them all in the next few minutes but over the next uh you know fairly soon we can send her some more specific questions in writing to

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guide her but we want to give her some sense of of what she should be spending her her precious time on and our money um and not just send her off um you know gathering lots and lots of data. Um, so we need to focus on what we really want

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her to focus on. Um, and money is clearly one of them. Um, what are other things that you want to hear from her about? Um, is I guess my question to my colleagues. Andy? >> Well, I mean, I think, you know, the

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goal is to have an RFP. So maybe, you know, maybe start drafting an RFP and work backwards from that. you know, it's like, um, okay, what are the categories that would be in the RFP? What information do we need to to be able to specify options? Um,

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and I I was very intrigued by Susan's suggestion that we could use the transfer or that it might be attractive for a hauler to use the transfer station as a as a collection site. Um, and we could keep it open for um, you know, partial use for bulky items and so on.

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of but it seems to me that maybe you know even as I was just saying I'd like to see other examples um the point of those would be to sort of you know you already have a number of the categories for the RFP so maybe use the development

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of RFP as a of a draft RFP as a tool for figuring out what data we need to support that >> Mimi you're I'm sorry. Your thoughts on this if any at the moment? >> So, yeah. So, it sounds like it would be better for me to spend my time on

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drafting the RFP rather than finishing writing the road map and putting some of what I've been telling you into a more formal document. Not that I shouldn't do that at some point, but if the priority

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is to have a draft RFP, then probably that's what I should focus on. >> I don't know if 6:30 is realistic for that. I guess um it might be, >> but I might need a little more time. Um I know there's a lot of examples out

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there. There's the one that's already, you know, in um that has already been developed in Ammeris and then there's other ones. Susan shared some with me. Um I mean I can also I mean I would also

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actually just like to reach out to some of the other compost companies that are in Western Mass because I haven't talked to any of them. And it would be very interesting to talk to just a few communities in Eastern Mass who are doing something similar to what Ammerst might end up doing. It'd be interesting

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to talk to Hamilton. Um maybe a couple other communities. So, you know, maybe I could do that as well. But it is true. I have to figure out how to spend my time because it's not uh you know, an endless budget. A third of a third of the budget was spent before I took this over, just

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so you know. So, >> okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I think it's also a question of what this committee can do. Um, and also we have zero waste amorous. So, we have, you know, people who are engaged in this and can also be assisting in gathering certain amounts of information. Maybe there's information we can gather uh

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conversations we can have potentially uh while me can be focused on things that only she can do or she can do better. Um, so that's another thought. Um, Paul. >> Yeah. So, I think June June 30th is totally unrealistic. you know, you're going to need the involvement of our

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procurement officer, the DPW, and the um uh finance director to create an act if we're going to use an RFP as an actual document that going to put on the streets. It's a it's a pretty formal document. So, I think that's, you know, expecting something in a month when we're still in the middle of an

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anticipating substantial discussion about the budget with the finance director. He's going to be key to this. I think just it's I think the the schedule that Mimi had put in I don't mind rep prioritizing. I think that you know there's a logic to that. Um but the

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June 30th would just never work. So I think you know I'm not sure what Mimi's schedule is for the summer. Um and so we I think those dates could be tightened up a little bit. I think um but I would want to talk with our staff who are

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going to be involved with this before we commit to any time schedule. So Paul, even a draft document just to sort of give us some parameters. You think >> I think we have the parameters already, you know. I think we've already sort of done some of that stuff. So I think I don't think that's that's unrealistic.

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Um but in terms of where our staff are putting their time, we have a brand new procurement officer who started a week ago. >> I think we have to be realistic with what you expect the town staff to do. Um, >> and and I think that if this is going to be a procurement document that's

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responsibility for the town to put out, >> it's got to be done correctly. Pam, >> I was thinking u so Paul just answered part of my question and that is is it possible to get just the basic

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um decision points or block block out the three options that an RFP would want to consider. And I again I'm new to this so I haven't seen the the previous draft. To me that's very very helpful to

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just understand the the basic tradeoffs of one set of you know choices versus another. If those same basic choices can be paired with

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potentially some of the communities that are out there that have taken a different route um and and the costs that they're seeing. I think that would be really beneficial to me to be able to weigh the the comparisons. Thank you,

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>> Andy. What Pam said, I agree that that it in in this um scenario that Mimi laid out, it's prepare the RFP and then there's town issues the RFP. And so the there's a

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there's the gap between preparing a you know a sample RFP with the decision the the decision options and then getting all the procurement stuff right is there's a gap there and I think that's appropriate. But having Mimi

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preparing the the sample decision points and pairing that with examples of each option, you know, for for the sections of it, I think would be very uh useful work and that that would be something that could be done over the

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summer, I would think. So it's an RFP without all the um you know official you know purchasing stuff but it but it's certain it is sort of tell us how you would do this or this or this and

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what it would cost and then we can add the procurement stuff. >> What role do you think or do my colleagues think um we should play um in this process? should we um have a discussion or two over the next month or so uh focusing on we have two members

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that are new to this um we have two new sponsors of a bylaw by the way the bylaw exists in two different forms and I have no idea which one is the proper uh bylaw um so a lot of this is really being done by the committee um there's a lot of information that we are sorting through

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um I want Mimi to leave today or within the next 48 hours to have some clear sense of what we're asking her to do. Um, and uh, so yes. >> So, how does the bylaw relate to the

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RFP? Can we get the RFP? Can we work in the RFP and then figure out the bylaw after that? I think for the moment should be my sense is that it stays on the side while we just figure out what what the decision points are and what the cost factors are and if we as a

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committee can agree on what we think some of the key I mean what the key elements are. Amber. >> Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to see like if it would be possible to get the draft RFP even if it doesn't have all the technical procurement language so that

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we had something to look at by by June 30th. >> I think it's probably more realistic to say like July 30th. >> July 30th. Okay. Because then would there be more discussions about this before then as you're sort of in the

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process of creating that or I guess I'm just wondering is there like is there a role you know in for this committee and for people for sponsors to do in the meantime so that we can sort of move some of these things forward. >> I think that's a very good question and

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I have some thoughts on it but I want to hear what the rest of you think. So, um, Andy, >> well, I I also noted that student that Susan had her hand up for a while and she's taken it down now, but if she has thoughts, I'd love to hear those. But my sense is we've hired somebody with w

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with time and expertise to to collect information and we should give her whatever guidance she needs to do that, but then we should let her do the work. And I don't think that we're I think if we all are running off doing, you know, separate work, unless it's hugely

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organized by the person that we hired to do the work, then I'm not sure that's the best use of anybody's time. Pam. >> Yeah, I'm wondering. So, um, maybe Paul can remind us all. A bylaw

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is going to say, you know, in Ammeris, we must compost, you know, curb curbside compost. In Amorest, we must um all participate in the in the trash pickup

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or whatever. Um, I'm I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting why we need a bylaw. Why isn't this just I mean I don't have a bylaw to tell me that I need to pay for my water and my sewer. Um remind me why we need this.

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>> Well, we actually do have a bylaw for water and sewer. Um if you're going to uh >> we do. >> Yeah. Um my question >> Yeah. No, no, it's a good question, Pam.

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Um so right now um and Mim me or Sue is incorrect we are regulated by the board of health regulations. So that's what regulates um trash haulers in in in the town of Ammeris right now. If the council wants to sort of supersede that

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and take over from what the board of health is regulating now you would create a bylaw that would outline what you what you want to regulate and what you would regulating is the is collection solid waste collection. Um, and you would say if you want to do solid waste collection in the town of

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Ammeris, these are the rules you're going to follow and the town is going to issue an a preferred hauler. Do whatever it is. We're going to offer it to we're going to offer up everybody or you we're only going to choose one hauler for the town of Ammerst. And I think that's the goal on that would be to create more

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market efficiency. I mean, remember a few years ago we had multiple trucks going up the street, you know, three different companies all collecting and it seemed so ridiculous to everybody. Um, and this would be create some efficiencies on that. Um, the uh, so I

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think that's what a bylaw would do. Um, and then the and then and the council doesn't have a role in this at this point in time. So a bylaw would give you the role that you would want to have. I think right now the board of health is in charge of of licensing waste haulers.

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>> Thank you. So I feel like we're in sort of a catch 22. We need to get answers to certain um but just numbers in order to get a sense of cost comparison. In order to do that

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we need an RFP in order to do the RFP. So I'm trying to see where we can sort of uh cut the knot. Um Mimi has identified a series of decision points. Um, are we asking her basically to go back and try to give us some uh as

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best she can some some cost comparisons, cost analysis on those decision points? Um, are we asking her to um I think what we're not asking her to do is is spend time on a road map at this point. I think we're looking for something that

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Right. So, uh, Paul, >> I I think maybe give Mimi some time to think about this because I think and also to talk talk to Guilford and Sean about what how she's going to be needing stuff from them. And so setting out, let

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her come up with a time frame for you. Um, and I think if if she thinks July 30th is is doable, then >> she'll she'll >> But give give her a minute to think about it, talk it over. >> Yeah, we're not going to Right. I understand that. >> Um, I guess for Mimi, uh, the question

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is either now or in the next few days, if you have specific if you need clarification uh from us, and I'm not sure that you do, but if you do, um, we would certainly provide it. um anything that we can do to help you um focus the task at hand um we will certainly do um

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we can decide ourselves if we want to continue this discussion as a committee uh while you're doing your work um because I said two of the members are new to this and um but that's a committee discussion and we won't decide that right now um Mimi go ahead

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>> um well first I was going to say I'm sorry but I do have to get off like within the next five minutes I have a meeting and some things I have to do before that meeting. Sorry if I this was supposed to go to 12 and I didn't realize it. Um also, so um I

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I think just to answer your question about time and really be able to give a timeline, I probably need to do some research on RFPs, which I really have not done yet. So I haven't closely read any. I mean, I'm sure it would be

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helpful to talk to Susan. Um, so I think once I do that, I could probably give you a definite timeline and it I just threw July 30th out there figuring that one month wasn't enough.

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Um, but then I and then I also will know whether there's things I need from you. >> Right. Makes sense. All right. Um, Andy, >> yeah, I'm wondering if you know, you already have the decision, you know, mo

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most of the decision points and those would then be sort of options within an RFP, I think, um, in some way. So, does it make sense for Mimi to create an outline of the RFP? These are

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the things that would go into it. these are the, you know, the areas that we would be looking for for responses on based on the, you know, the decision points that she's identified in the conversations that we've had. if she could give us an outline

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as a draft outline of sort of the components that we would be looking for, you know, vendors to to bid on or or to distinguish between. Then we could respond to that and then, you know, that that might be helpful way for us to to

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be involved and for her to not be feeling like she has to do the whole thing and then come to us and say, "Oh, that's not what we wanted." So, um, I think that, you know, the the decision points that that you listed in the in the slides were were a large part

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of what, you know, that we'd be asking for response on in an RFP, but maybe talk to Susan also about what what some sample RFPs look like and compare those to the decision points and then see how

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you could translate those into an outline of an RFP that we could respond Yeah, that sounds reasonable. I mean, it's possible I could get that done by the end of June. I just not entirely sure. So, that's why I wouldn't want to commit to that. >> That's fine. That's good. And I I think

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we should we should let you go. Um this has been very very helpful, very informative. Um there's obviously still a long way to go, but this is an important big step. Um so, thank you very much for your time and for your work, and we'll be hearing back from you

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soon. Um and uh the committee will uh also spend some time thinking about this and what it thinks it can provide and uh so thank you >> and Susan thank you for your contribution. Your hand is up uh if you

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have anything you'd like to add. Um but otherwise we're going to move on to some other business. Susan, no >> I I'm not sure. Um, I guess I wanted to say that there there are not examples out there

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from other communities because this is we're we're kind of trailblazing here. Um, if you want to look outside of Massachusetts, you can look to Vermont, you can look to San Francisco, Seattle, etc. But we are uh this this food waste

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and composting collection diversion is is all fairly new in the state of Massachusetts. That being said, that that you might consider uh a phased approach to a change in Ammerst

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that you're you're really doing three major changes and it makes a lot of sense to do it uh to think about it and plan for it all at once so that it's thoughtful, but you don't necessarily have to make all three changes at once. You're looking at a

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town contracted change, a move from subscription and transfer station to a town contracted change. That's going to be a big change in terms of billing, in terms of a whole bunch of things. You're also looking at a more robust pay as you throw change. Um, that's a pretty major

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change. And then you're also looking at a compost collection change. So when you as you look to your RFP, um, you can do a phased approach. You could say, you know, by year two or year three, we want to have compost

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collection or, you know, there's there's lots of different ways that you can do this. I just wanted to caution you that you don't have to do it all in one fell swoop because it's taken off it's taken like three big bites all at once. So um you might want to be give yourself some

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flexibility >> but we'll take it um I think some also perhaps discussion for this committee going forward. Um but um again thank you both very much. Um but I'm going to uh unless I hear otherwise I'm going to

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move us on to our next item of business. We have a number of town manager appointments actually reappoints and appointments we need to handle and we have about 15 minutes. >> All right. Thank Thank you. I'm going to jump off. >> Thank you both. >> Bye.

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>> All right. Next item on our agenda, if I may, is review town manager appointments. We have uh uh two appointments to the historical commission. Paul, take it away. >> Thank you. So we have a lot of vacancies on the historical commission. So we have

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two applicants uh Camila Guang Carlos and Kanani Sabro Dr. what does she call herself Dr. Sub or something like that. Um both are really um uh people who are one

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interested in serving the town. Um uh and sort of some of the folks come in as I mentioned before they come in just I want I want to volunteer time for subcommittee. I'm not sure exactly where my skill set fits. And Angela works with them um to figure out what commission

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has space and which what are their where their interests are. Um for um Cam Camila um she was interested in the historical commission because she's lives in a historic house and on Southeast Street and got into got into

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sort of studying this the house and getting connected to the historical society, things like that. So she's very interested. So, I'm recommending her for a one-year appointment and uh Kyani uh recommending for a three-year appointment to the historical commission. And

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this these are important these these appointments are important because um they're struggling to maintain quorum and the historical commission is the body that um reviews demolitions. So, failure to be to be able to act means that they get the a demolition could get

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constructive approval. So we really want the historical commission to have the quorum to be able to act. >> So questions for the manager Pam Marine. >> So for the historical commission, there was nobody with an actual architectural or historic um background.

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>> No, there wasn't. And the um and there there's no requirement for the historical commission. The local historic district commission does have requirements like that. So Paul, this body has seven members. Um, with if these two are appointed, it would now have four active members. Is

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that correct? There's still shortage. >> I think I think so there are four vacancies. >> There four vacancies. So there would be four members. >> I mean, not recent this minute, but come July one. >> Come July one. Okay. >> Yeah, I can double check. >> So this just this is just sort of filling filling on on the go.

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>> These are filling two I Let me just double check. >> Two. >> There's one vacancy now. Um and then there's two people who want to get off on uh July 1. >> Have they applied for reappoint? >> I think two of them do not want to be

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reappointed. I think one is willing to serve if needed. >> I double check with Angela on that. >> So I'm prepared to make a motion unless there's further questions. Um, and I'm prepared to u move that TSO recommend the town council approve the following

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town manager appointments to the historical commission. Uh, for a three-year term to expire June 30, 2029, Tayani Subraman and for a one-year term to expire June 30, 2027, Camila Wang Carlos.

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Is there a second? >> Second. >> Councelor Churchill seconds. It's been moved and seconded. I'm going to go immediately to a vote. I'm going to start with uh Pam Rooney. >> Uh yes. >> Uh Andy Churchill.

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>> Yes. >> Um I am an I. Council Lord. >> I >> thank you Council Lord. That is for approval and we have one absent. Next, um, we have a sizable number of

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reappoints that the managers brought to us and, um, I believe I have to read these all out. Is that correct, Athena? >> Um, George, I had put together a motion. The TSO's motion can be much shorter. So, what I'm recommending is to recommend the town council approve the

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reappoints listed in the town manager's May 18, 2026 appointment memo. And then the council motion will include all the names and expiration dates and so forth. >> Okay. So, the motion uh before us is to approve the councelor the manager's

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reappoints in his May 18th uh memo to TSO. Um >> second >> and it's been seconded. And I think I really hashed that Athena, but I think it's got the gist of what you said. Um the motion's been made and seconded.

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Before I move to a vote, are there any questions? comments or concerns about the reappoint memo. For those who are watching or listening, um we're talking about one, two, three, a sizable number of reappoints to a

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large number of boards and committees and a good example of something that the manager and the resident advisory committee and Angela Mills spend a good amount of their time on and they're all important. So, we have a motion. It's been seconded. If there's

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no further discussion, I'm going to go immediately to a vote. Um I'm an I. Councelor Churchill >> I. >> Mam Rooney >> abstain. >> Council Lord. >> Yes. >> So the vote is three in favor, one

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abstaining, and one absent. All right. So on the agenda, where are we with time? We have about 15 minutes or less. Um I wanted to talk a little bit about whether we think what next steps if any are appropriate for the street lights

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policy. Um we had a thought of very uh good presentation and um discussion last time and uh currently this resides with the manager and with his staff. Um my thought was there might be a role for

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this committee to play uh in assisting the manager if he so chooses uh in helping form this policy. Um there are certain things that only staff can do. They're technical questions that only they can address. Um the question is whether the committee has any uh

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interest in helping in this process and also whether the manager thinks that that would be helpful. So that is the item for discussion. >> Pam. So under under this topic, the

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development of a street light policy, I mean there are a number of items that all need, as I think as you just said, they need some staff input. Um maybe one of the most helpful um aspects of this of attacking this

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topic is is really is there a is there a potential roadmap for uh adoption of this policy? I mean, we've got the basic one in place now,

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but um I'm just thinking about the roll out. If if a policy is adopted, what does it really take to get it on the ground and moving? It's um

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it's a real it's a real expense if we really talk about uh upgrading and or um affecting change on on the ground and what's the reality of making our way

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through the through the list. I didn't say that very well, but you get the gist of it, >> right? um the the cost of change, the amount of staff time involved and what's practical given um the challenges. Um,

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Andy, >> um, there was a lot in that in that presentation and there was sort of the the challenge of, you know, you can imagine in the old days it's like, well, you know, when a light burns out, we put a, you know, a

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new model one in. But with a lot of the LED lights, they're not going to burn out for a long time. So, you know, what are the pieces? I mean, we heard some parts about safety. there were some areas that aren't lit enough. We heard other things about the types, you know,

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the the color temp, you know, the required color temperature going forward and then shielding. Um, and it sounded like Northampton has a policy that is as complicated as the one

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we were looking at. So, um I mean I guess George, you have some interest in in in potentially having this committee help. Um I'm curious if you have what ideas you would have for that. and and I it's

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always a little challenging I think for staff to be like hey they've got a bunch of people who are willing to help but they can't hold them accountable because they're not they're not being paid and and evaluated by by st by managers. So it's it's like how do we

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you know to what extent is this I mean it seems like there's a lot of good ideas there but what's I'm not sure what the what the way >> well I think the thought the thought is that this this is a you know a fair amount of time has been spent both by counselors in the past and now by a

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group of students um and I thought that it might not hurt for the committee to sit down and review I mean not when we sitting through a presentation um There are just lots of things that we need to digest and think about. So we digest and think about it, come back to it, um and

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and look at it as just as a policy document. Some of the questions that that Pam has raised are also we could raise um and we can do this on our own and then just report back to the manager. Here's our thoughts. This is what we think. um and and we look at what they presented and maybe we could

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offer a you know that up as a as as a draft or maybe tinker with a little bit. But we would endorse as a coun as a committee we would endorse a series of of of of uh objectives or goals that we think a 21st century uh street lights

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policy should have in it. Um that's now over 25 years old. and uh we're not going to do a lot of the heavy lifting because it's already been done, but we can at least put it into some kind of form or shape. Um the manager might say, "It's already fine the way it is. I don't need any help there and and I'm

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going to hand it over to staff and they will get back to you um when they have time to to focus on this." And that may be the answer. But the thought was we as a committee haven't really had a chance to look at what this group did and talk about it um in terms of their broad you

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know principles that guide it and whether we think these are appropriate. Um in the end it's the manager's policy. Um we're simply offering him our thoughts on it. Um so it was that sort of thought that we could put on an agenda a future agenda u a review of what that of that report and a review of

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the proposed policy for our discussion. Um, that was my thought, >> Paul. Yeah, I think um you know I think this initiated because two counselors wrote a memo to the council and then the council didn't know what to do with it

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sort of and said throw it to TSO and TSO didn't come to a conclusion said hey manager you deal with it and I think that's sort of where it wound up and then it's like and then there was I you know I sort of said hey when we had an opportunity for students come in hey this is a great project very discreet

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you can do it and they did a great job I think um so I think it's never um hit me that this is a high priority for the council. We're really about trying to set priorities. That's important. Um I'm looking at this is a major policy. It's

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it's pretty complicated. I think um it would be forwardlooking, not backward looking. um in terms of what how we do things going forward. I mean I I I'm just I'm going to sound like a broken record where um you know we've got now two big initiatives for the same person

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really at DPW um who's managing a million different things on on their plates, you know, street light policy and solid waste. And um I'm it's the initiative overload is just becoming very real and

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>> um you know um I'm a little bit nervous about prot um about and and you know that these things have to go through the staff who know what they're doing right you know you need the expertise about how does it work on the ground and stuff like that these ideal things it it's it

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sounds great on paper when you study it and you come up with the best case scenarios. Um, so I I I um I don't know how capacity the DPW has to really help with this. Um, >> well I mean visually Paul initially at

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least nothing. Um, this would be a discussion by the committee assuming they wanted to do it reviewing the policy that they presented. Certainly the LA the presentation was not an opportunity for us uh to really dig into it at all. >> Um, and but it's a question for the committee. they may decide it's not that

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big a priority or we got better things to do. Um, but it was a thought that we would spend some time reviewing it, maybe asking some questions. It's true. The students are gone, so we don't have anyone to ask. I take it there's no one we can reach out to at this point for clarification. Um, the uh, so that's a

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question for the committee at this point. I think not so much for you. Um, Pam, >> I would I would appreciate having a chance to sit and talk about these bullets. Um, I'm looking at my other

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screen. Sorry. Uh, I think perhaps as a small committee there's an opportunity to maybe at least identify what appears to be a priority approach to something. Um

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and and that could be that could be developed as as a recommendation for implementation. Um it's it's certainly any kind of implementation is going to be phased and over time it's I think if

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this committee did spend some time talking about priorities I think that if Paul is willing I think that is helpful. It's a little bit like saying okay DBW if you've got staff available you could fix this chunk of

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sidewalk. you know, it's it's comparable to that. Um, so yes, I would I would um I'd be willing to spend some discussion time on this topic. It's not high

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priority, but in a way in this district, it is high priority because it's the safety of pedestrians primarily. >> That's my That's my perspective. Um, >> okay, good. Am I hearing? Yeah, I'm hearing some openness to So, I'm just

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thinking ahead. Um, it sounds like at least two of us, I don't know about the rest of you, but um, this would be something we possibly put on an agenda for a future discussion. Um, Andy, >> yeah, I I don't mind spending, you know,

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part of one meeting trying to, you know, so summarizing what we heard. So, at least it doesn't get lost and it's put in a digestible format. >> Okay. Um, but as far as having expectations for when staff are going to act on it, I think that's a different question and I think that's

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>> one where we should think carefully about capacity. >> No, I I agree. I agree. I mean it right. The other question I just we're going to shift I'm going to pass over minutes if that's all right in the interest of time. Um though we can certainly do them quickly if we have but we're right now

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almost at at at the 12:00 uh time. Pam >> make a motion that we accept the M minutes from whatever the date >> May 7 2026 as >> May 2026 as as provided. >> Okay. And Mr. Churchill second. So the

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motion has been made and seconded. Going to go immediately to a vote. Councelor Lord, I'm going to start with you this time. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Um Pam Rooney, >> yes. >> Andy Churchill, >> yes. >> And councelor Ryan is also yes. So those minutes, thank you as always, Athena.

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Those minutes are approved as presented. Um, back briefly to future agenda items. I think it would be an interesting discussion at our next meeting also to talk about what we just heard today. Um, thoughts on that?

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And I would, you know, so I think this is something that, you know, just uh reviewing uh Mimi's presentation, reviewing the decision points. Uh as I've said, we have at least I believe it's two members on this committee who have not dealt with this at all. Um

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councelor Lord and myself and and and councelor uh Tob have been involved in it to some extent. So, I think that would be something worth our time next time just to to review what we've heard and talk about some of these issues and see what the the committee thinks and

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questions they might have. And if anything comes out of that that'd be useful for Mimi uh with Paul's permission, we could reach out to her uh and vice versa if she has any questions for us. But, um I'm thinking that would be an excellent agenda item for next time. Anything else that people are

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thinking about at the moment? If not, um I believe that is the agenda for today and so I'm going to make a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? >> Second. >> And councelor Rooney uh seconds. I am an I. Andy Churchill.

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>> Yes. >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> Councelor Lord. >> Yes. >> All right. We adjourn. >> Thank you Paul. >> Thank you Paul very much. Thank you Athena as always. See you all too soon.