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Okay, you're recording, please. >> Great. Thank you. So, good morning. It's Thursday, June 4th. Um, it is 10:02 a.m. and uh 2026. This is a regular meeting of the town services and outreach committee and

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chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025 extended through June 30, 2027 gives public bodies the ability to hold meetings remotely such as this. So, this meeting is accessible in real time via Zoom and by phone and it's being recorded. Um, I have four of my

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committee members here. I believe the fifth it will not be with us. Um, but let me just make sure everybody can be heard. Pam Rooney, >> yes. >> Jennifer Todd, >> yes. >> Andy Churchill. >> Okay. So, um,

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>> yes, >> all four of us are here and can be heard and can be seen. Um, >> long time no see you you others. [laughter] >> Yeah, it's been about uh what 10 hours? >> Six hours.

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>> So this was remind me I'm sorry I I f >> CRC >> TRC that's what I thought. Okay, just went long. >> We had a joint meeting with the planning board that meets on Wednesday evenings. >> Right. Okay. >> A very exciting meeting. [laughter] >> It was it was knuckle. It was white

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knuckle. >> Well, I'll have to watch the tape. We'll leave that for another day. Um, so we do not have a very uh heavy agenda today. Um, which is fine, I think, by all of us, but um we're going to begin in a moment of public comment, but let me just note we have two discussion items.

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We do not have any town manager appointments. So, item five is off the agenda. We have a set of amendments to approve and then we I think we want to talk a little bit at the end about future agenda items and what's coming down the road. Um but I don't think we're going to be anywhere near the full

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two hours today, but we'll see. So um let me take a look in the u uh at the moment there are no attendees. So um if that changes I may come back to public comment but at the moment there are none. And so I'm going to move right

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to item number three. which is waste hauler and um my thinking here is we've had two presentations in the last two meetings um quite uh detailed and thorough um one on waist holler and one on street lights

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and I wanted to get sort of get the temperature of the committee I wanted to hear what your reactions and thoughts were um and then I want to see if there are any future steps that we possible steps we might want to take um or not. So, um, that's where we're going to go

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in a second, but, uh, Jennifer, go ahead. Um yeah I so I thought with street lights we had wrapped that up a bit that we had voted that we that as the town had to replace and

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install new street lights they would you know um they would take the recommendations of I guess the sponsors of the bylaw that we would try and have what is it the halo

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downcast lights, but that that we had really that we had taken a vote and that we were not going to be recommending that a bylaw be adopted or a specific program put in place because we didn't have the funding for it, but the town manager was here and we I mean maybe

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that has to go before the council, but that we had said as you move forward take the recommendations of the I'm forgetting the name of the consultant that the bylaw sponsors worked with to take those recommendations into consideration, but that we weren't

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asking that a bylaw be adopted or >> specific um program be implemented. >> Athena, >> thanks. The the council voted previously to essentially refer the proposed street

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lighting policy to the town manager for development. And um so I think Paul was giving you you know looping TSO in on what they're working on by sharing this presentation from the folks at UMass. Um but it's

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still according to the last council vote on it. It's still in the town manager's court so to speak um to develop a policy or something and bring it back to the council um via TSO. But is there anything else for us to do

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until the town manager comes back? >> Well, that is actually discussion I'd like to have. >> Okay. >> I mean, there's nothing you have to do. There's no recommendation that TSO needs to make right now because it's it's within the town manager's scope. It's,

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>> like I said, basically been referred to the town manager to develop. So, there's nothing TSO needs to do or report on. um you did report on the presentation and then the town manager will continue to work on developing a proposal or something but it's not uh my understanding is that it's not at the

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top of his list. >> But didn't we take a vote? I guess that's what I'm >> No, we did not. I'm not aware of any vote that was taken on straight. No, my recollection and I can check the minutes is that um councelor Ryan asked the committee if there was interest in developing the proposal as a bylaw

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rather than a policy as had been recommended and there was not and so no vote was taken. >> Okay. So I stand corrected. Well, I do re I do recall the conversation and essentially giving our suggestion to the town manager that in fact given lack of

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a polic well a new policy or a bylaw that as lights are replaced exactly what what Jennifer just said, you know, do it as we go. Um be smart about spending money unnecessarily. Well, I think there was more to it than

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that, but yes, um it's it's in the town manager's court. Um and I had a conversation with him and I said to him if TSO were open to looking at what we've been looking at the presentation and reviewing it and talking about it,

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um we could assist in trying to at least help with drafting a policy. He doesn't have a lot of staff capacity. That's always an issue for him. Um, and we have uh five relatively intelligent, at least four, you don't have to count the chair, four relatively intelligent people on

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this committee. And I think we do have some capacity. This has been something that has been out there for some time now. Originally sponsored by two counselors. Um, and uh, I guess today what I wanted to do, it's kind of out of order, but I guess we can do this first since that's where we started. I wanted

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to get a sense of what you heard um and um whether you felt that some of the policy recommendations made sense um and whether we could play a role in at least it's a two and a half page document that that we have in front of us um and I think there might be a place for us to

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uh offer suggestions offer some advice from us to as to how the policy should should be shaped and maybe help shape it um and also maybe identify some key points of of that both of you have mentioned that we would like to be

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guiding principles. Um, right now is correct. It's in Paul's court. Paul uh I don't think has is not near the top of his list, but that doesn't mean it can't be higher up on our list. um and assuming that he is open to us bringing

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him some uh bringing perhaps a draft policy um or at least bringing him some of our uh ideas about what we think uh a policy should contain. Um I think it might be time that we could spend fruitfully um not today but at a future

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meeting. So that's what I want to get a sense of and um so the first thing is what did you hear? Um, you got a report. We've gotten uh two actually uh over the couple years, but the most recent one was fairly succinct. It made a number of recommendations

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um and offered a kind of road map for the future. Um you do you want to simply hand it to Paul and say, you know, get back to us when you have time, which means it won't be anytime this year and perhaps maybe not for a long time. So

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that's my thought. Um, Andy, >> well, I heard that Paul feels like this is, you know, that this is not the highest priority for DPW, uh, and that we have one electrician. And, um, so I I I think if we just send it back

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to Paul and say, "Let us know, you know, when you have time for this," I don't think we're going to hear it hear much from it. Um, which is okay. Um, I don't think that we should be putting a lot of extra burden on, you know, staff on this one at this

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point. But I did I did hear a couple things. I heard, you know, that lower color temperature would be good um as a policy. Um, I heard [snorts] that, um, you know, there

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are a couple areas that were identified as being kind of dangerously dark and maybe those should be looked at. Um, and you know, I I'm, you know, I'm thinking that if there are burned out lights that they should be replaced with

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lower color temperature bulbs. Um, you know, there may be, but I think we've got a lot of LED lights that are never going to burn out. So, I'm not sure what we do with that. Um, >> so, but, you know, um, I think we could

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we could probably look at the at the um presentation again. We could we could look at what Northampton does and we could have a very bad you know I would think a one pager or less that is like you know in the future let's use 2700 or

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whatever it is that the lower color lower temperature bulbs >> um to the extent feasible let's replace burnout bulbs with that >> color temperature let's look at the two areas that are identified as being dangerously dark and

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you know as as time permits maybe look at you know I don't know um some shielding or gel covers or whatever but you know I I don't see uh this as being you know there's

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the the roads are the priority for DPW I think and um [snorts] I don't think spending a lot of time um you know figuring out how to replace bulbs that are currently working makes a lot of sense but >> there's some some basic it's a policy

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that we'll use lower color temperature and that will replace bulbs and that we will you know consider improving lighting in areas that have been identified as as dangerously low low light. >> Thank you. Um Pam

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>> uh similarly it it feels like our our directive or recommendation to the to the manager would be that um the areas that were identified as as dangerously under underlighted and those

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areas that are overlit and uncomfortably overlit um would become sort of target areas. And if there are grants that could be pursued for just for that, you know, for dark skies improvements or

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something like that, maybe there are some state funds for something like that that um staff could literally, you know, focus on two or three areas around town that that were brought to our attention. Um otherwise

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I was pretty unsure you know the the push to to do a major overhaul of the policy uh even happened as as Shalini Balmill said what problem are we trying [laughter] to address?

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So it clearly wasn't on many other people's radars. Um but yes, the the instruction to to sort of um minimize uh change the Kelvin of lights that we put back in. And if you're going to a light

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to begin with, you change the bulb and you put a a shield on and make that the policy. And that's about as basic. You know, I I'm looking at the the policy that we have here and it's it's pretty simple. Uh, and maybe we tweak a couple

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of the uh the Kelvin temperatures to to put in the numbers we want. Um, and leave it and leave it at that. I think the staff does a really good job of trying to keep things going and if

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there's a problem light, it typically gets dealt with because somebody's raised the issue. >> Thanks. Well, actually in the in the report um which I assume you all read, they actually were very critical of the uh ability of people to uh communicate

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with coherently with the town and to get I'm not sure it's true, but they were quite critical of the website and critical of reliance on phones. Um they felt the complaint system was not was not very very good. On the other hand, perhaps there just aren't that many complaints. So I think that's that's a

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legitimate question. um and they recommended surveys and so on. I'm not sure that's going to happen at least, but that's you know, so there's there are a number of things in that report that I think um it might be worth our time to go through and just either say, you know, we just can't do it or we're

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not interested or it's not important. Um you ask what's the problem we're trying to address? And again, that's addressed in the report. It's also, I think, part of what the motive was behind the original motion by the two counselors, um, um, Mandy and Anna, that there are,

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in fact, environmental and health issues related to overlighting um, and there's fairly strong scientific evidence for some of this. And while it's not something that is near the top of everybody's list of of things to do, um, it that I'm not sure is a reason not to

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attend to it. So I think there are uh concerns. Um there also safety concerns. So there's another side of this story that also complicates it. People who feel that that at least in some areas there's not enough light and that's a safety issue. So it um I think there's a fair amount to to to sort of work

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through and then perhaps when we're done we could agree on a one or two page document that would be our consensus as to what we would like uh staff uh through Paul to do uh related to lighting. Um I don't >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

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>> I was coughing. >> Oh, it's all right. Okay. Anyway, um Jennifer, go ahead. >> Uh I agree with what Pam and Andy have said. Um I think the issue of how to

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lodge a complaint or concern or a need for a light to be lowered or a light to be fixed. Um that's a broader question because I think there's there's u many concerns that residents have you know streets potholes being one

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of them or sidewalk repair that they are challenged to get a response to. So I think that is would is in terms of town services that would be something that's very important for this committee to address not just related to street

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lights. I know at least in district 4 uh residents are not bashful about writing to me and Pam and so I have gotten very few emails about lights. I have sometimes gotten an email that a light is out and then you know I'll reach out

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but I think the whole issue I always use this an example but I put an issue into CC click fix five years ago. I've never heard anything. So, I think that's generally an issue not just related to lights that we might want to address, but um as Pam referred to when the when

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the proposal to um revisit our street lighting policies came before the council, Sholin was on and I remember she said she had never received an email about lighting and I think a lot of us concurred that it was just not an issue we had thought about or seemed to be,

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you know, in any way a priority. of our constituents. >> So I guess my question to you would be this that based on the report that you read uh by these students and based on what Mandy and Anna produced a couple years ago, you don't see particularly an

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issue or concern around the health and environmental issues that overlighting and and uncontrolled or you know a poor lighting policy creates. That's not uh I'm just a question to you. That's not an important concern for you right now.

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>> It's a concern. No, it's not. It's not an over I'm sorry. I've been enlightened. Something I didn't think much about. Now I'm thinking about it. Um and I'm wondering well is there anything we can do? Other communities have done it. So we're not like an outlier here. Um Northampton, Pittsfield, throughout the Commonwealth.

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Um [clears throat] so um >> so my concern in my district is under lighting. That is a concern for me >> because like I said I we have a lot of pedestrian traffic at least in precinct 4B and pedestrians use the flashlights

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on their phones. So the overlighting >> that's so so [laughter] >> not a concern in my district. >> Right. >> Okay. >> I'm going to I'm going to weigh in. Must be three years four years ago maybe. Um we did a we did the first of our

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walkabouts at night and it was um it was pretty telling. There are some areas and this is again sort of the downtown area and the neighboring u the surrounding neighborhoods that uh there are some areas where pedestrians are very active.

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4 4A is also, you know, everything sort of funnels down >> um East Pleasant or Cottage Street or Triangle Street to get to the bus hubs and things, you know, on North Pleasant Street. And um there are definitely areas where

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additional light would be appropriate. Um, of course, I'm concerned that that we are over overlighting the environment. I mean, it's been a long time thing. It's just that I have to recognize that the town, you know, I'd

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frankly rather spend money on seniors than I would on buying, you know, 10 more electricians to go and do a major rehaul of the town lights. So, it's just, you know, it's it's something we're going to peck away at over time is the way I I'm feeling

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about it. >> Okay, Andy, >> Jennifer has her hand up. Um, >> yeah, Andy can go first. I've spoken twice. >> Spoken, right? Andy, please. >> I just Googled to to find our our

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current street light standards, which I hadn't looked at prior. I've heard the report and and I I'd seen the draft new ones, but um we do have current current standards, which I can just share here

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just so that we see it that's of any use. But um you know it might be like you know this is basically here's there's you know where they will be provided.

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Um then there's the street light performance standards. >> This is the proposed >> this is the proposed >> Oh really? I thought this was 2001. No, no, no, no. This is >> No, it's a one we have a onepage,

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two-page document now. >> Right. It's very very >> There's not a there's not an adopted date at the top. >> That [laughter] where would I find our current one? >> What you were just looking at is the proposed policy. We don't have a formal street lighting policy that I know of. >> Okay.

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>> There was one in our packet that was labeled um >> Ammer street lighting policy. So, I mean, this is a good example of what I think the problem is that I think we could just help provide some clarity. Uh, we also could provide some advice from from the five of us and perhaps

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through the council about what we'd like broadly to speak. I hear the cause concerns. I'm not trying to create work for people. Um, but I think we do have a job. I think we have a role to play here or could um and one of them would just be to make cl get clarity um on on the

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policy where it exists and what it is. Um, and uh, so anyway, go ahead, Pam. Jennifer, >> just quickly, Pam, the one that's in the packet is not a current policy. That's a proposed policy as well. >> Oh, >> do we have a policy? I thought that was

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one of the concerns. We didn't have a policy. So, I guess we could do that. I I just wanted to add that in district 4 the o there is a a a major overlighting issue, and that's UMass. So in terms of the lights are very bright at night but

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that's not within our jurisdiction but um in terms of over lighting and glare night skies I'd say >> also Amoris College quite frankly at the end of my street um often will have its I mean so yes there are other issues outside of our immediate concern but

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>> so I don't want to Andy go ahead. Yeah, I I mean I got I I guess this is something we could work on, but I just I don't see the appetite. I mean, I just think there are are harder things that are that are demanding people's time

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now, and I worry about overloading staff. Um so, you know, if if we could send, you know, a very simple thing that says, "Hey, we've looked into this. It sounds like color temperature would be an issue. If

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you want to replace the bulbs with new color temperature, that would be good, you know, good. And, you know, um, and maybe if we look into more the general question of how do people hear back on complaints or how do people lo

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effectively lodge complaints so that um, you know, so that staff know what people are complaining about and people know that staff are hearing what they're saying. That's probably a good thing for us to to work on generally, but I just don't think this is I think there's too much going on for

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this to be an additional thing on the to-do list right now. >> Um, our DPW superintendent is here and he might be able to answer some of these questions. Billford, >> I don't want to interrupt, but I just thought you were asking a lot of questions that I could answer.

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>> Go for it. >> Okay, go for I guess I'll recognize you. >> Thank you for joining us. >> You don't have to. >> You didn't raise your hand. >> I don't I don't recognize him. [laughter] >> Well, I recognize him, but he didn't raise his hand. So, go ahead, Guilford, please. >> So, there is a policy. The policy is

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very basic. The policy says that there are to be street lights in the downtown area. Um, and then there's to be street lights at every intersection, every uh vertical curve in the road or horizontal curve in the road.

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and at at the end of every culde-sac and basically that's what it says. It was on the town website and I was looking for it before I joined but I did not see it. Um it's been modified a little bit I think in 2021

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there were some changes made to it but that that policy has been the policy since we turned off lights in the 80s. So um updating the policy is good. Um, I would I would say that there's two

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train there's two Well, actually, I guess there's three. There's really three thought trains of thought on um lighting. There's the UMass train. There's the dark sky train. Um, and then there's sort of the middle middle ground of

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giving enough lighting for your pedestrians and people who need lighting. um you know, one of the people we use to uh do all our lighting calculations and size our lighting and put our lighting scope specifications together. Um he we

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can probably have him if you want come and talk to you about how he does it. Um he's a he's a he's a vendor, but he's more than always happy to he puts together our little lighting things and then we we pretty much are standardized on their product. So, um, they're will

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he's probably would be willing to come if you want me to try to schedule him at a meeting. >> I'd be interested. >> And then a lot of issues happen around people who call things in. Um, sometimes they get lost. Sometimes uh we we don't

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really they get misplaced and sometimes we answer them and then people just don't like our answer and keep asking us. But uh there is there is a problem with the cclick fix with light street lightings which we're kind of working on but it's uh it is some sort of a it

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requires much more u it requires more input than we actually have ability to do but we do we do try to answer them although some get lost. >> Oh Andy has his hand up. >> Andy I was just curious I mean you

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what's the you said there's three schools of thought. There's UMass dark sky and enough for people who need lighting. Um what's the UMass school of thought that? >> So UMass does these walkounds. Um and these walkounds is if they walk around and someone says that's dark, they put a

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light there. [laughter] >> It's for for safety basically, right? >> Um if someone feels the need that yeah, it's not safe, they try to correct it. But the kind of um you know recommendations that we were getting from this uh this group um related to

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lumens Kelvin's and so on um environmental health issues that's not something that drives the UMass policy. >> No, not at all. They they truly they have that twice a year they have a walk around campus and if there's a dark spot and someone says that might be a bad

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spot, we need to light it, they light it. Um, >> so Guilford, do you feel that that um getting some improved at least or at least more um up-to-date uh standards would be helpful to you? Do you feel or is that just going to create more

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headaches for you? Um, do you feel a need for it sounds like you would like an update to this policy? Um, I'm offering the committee I'm not sure the committee agrees with me, but I'm offering the committee's services to help at least uh summarize what we've heard and maybe offer some suggestions that could then become part of a policy.

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We could even perhaps help draft at least the non-technical parts of a policy. But do you see that as something that's just going to create just a time sync? You don't have right now you just don't have the time or energy to deal with it on any level. >> Um it's something that people it's it's

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something that people consider um something people are talking about. I do I do think a better policy would be would be appropriate. Um, I'm not really I'm not really a big fan

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of the Northampton policy. Um, if you listen to our vendor, he'll explain to you a little bit why you need to have different Kelvin at different places. And yes, you might you might have an impact on what on wildlife in that area,

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but um it's for a purpose is why you have that >> Kelvin. Um, and then if you if we make a a good policy, I think that was defensible and we can keep moving with that. >> So, a blanket sort of like 3,000 is the limit or 2900 or whatever. Um, the

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argument there would be there might be certain places where that actually you should exceed it and the policy should recognize that. So, it might be your your goal overall. You'd like to keep it to a certain uh measure, but in certain cases, if the policy spells it out clearly, you would say this is it's

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justified to go higher here. Is that is that kind of what you're thinking? >> That's that's kind of Yes, that's kind of what the industry says. >> Some flexibility, not just a blanket everything must be X. You can't buy anything or have anything over X. Um Okay. All right.

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>> Yeah. Because I mean what what our vendor will say is if you do that then you're kind of set yourself up for you just need more lights. >> Yeah. >> And then you you may have to have a many more lights. >> So you're confident with this vendor? You feel that? I mean, he's he

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represents the field, but he's he's he's he's worth talking to and and he has some valuable things to say. He's not just trying to sell a product. >> No, he's not. Well, he's like a vendor. He's like every vendor. Every product. If you meet once you meet him, you'll understand he kind of likes this stuff

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and he gets into it and he enjoys it. >> Good. >> We've been able to do two things with him. Uh, one are the cut off lights you see in the center of town in in the in the north common in the north common area actually not the street side but in

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the park side of the north common you'll notice that the the 12 foot post lights we use they have a cut off lens in them. They're totally cut off. >> They're not they look like they're an acorn but they they don't have all that extra glass. So it's not a big ball of light.

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>> It's actually cut off. um it cuts down some of the glare. It cuts down a lot. So he um we've worked with him to get those and they've been developing they've been developing things all along. That's one of their latest things. Also on the common and I think it's working although I'm not sure it's

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100% working yet is a timed a time timing on the light. So they dim down >> right. So they they drop in they drop in Kelvin and they drop in lighting down and then when someone walks through they'll light back up and they only do that during a certain period of time.

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>> And that was sort of that's something that a lot of communities are using throughout their whole their whole community, >> right? >> Is they have connected lights and they dim as they dim at 10 in the neighborhood. They'll dim at 10:00 and then they'll come back up at when they

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need to in the morning when people are going to work if it's dark or school. So those are things that are happening. They're expensive. >> They're expensive. Yeah. >> But they're things that people are talking about and he he's he >> he's he's involved in all this and it's

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>> okay. So hearing from him might I will see what the committee thinks but hearing from him might be an interesting uh exercise and also help us focus our own thinking. Um, uh, so I have both I think Pam was first and then Jennifer. >> Sure. Yeah. I, uh, I'd like to hear from

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the guy. I think I I'm always willing to learn a little bit more. Um, I was curious if there's any data on how many lighting complaints you get a year >> besides lights being out.

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>> Um, including lights being out. So, we probably get about 10 to 15 lights light out a year complaints. Uh, most of them are pretty easy to fix. Some are not. Um, and then every once in a while, maybe twice a year, we'll get a

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complaint that there's too much lighting. >> Okay. >> I don't think we've gotten any this year. >> So, it's it's you're not getting huge amounts of complaints. You're not hearing a lot from the public in this area at least of overlighting, but certainly occasionally about lights out.

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>> Yeah. I mean, the people who complain about overlighting, they've complained about overlighting and it hasn't been changed, so they kind of stop. >> They give up. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> There's a residual. Um Yeah. I was thinking about the timers on the lights. Obviously, that would be terrific if you

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know if lights as they get replaced get put in with something like that. But but clearly expensive. And there must be I mean, what drives the timer? Is that electricity or is it a solar um

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you know >> basic >> so basically what you do is you set up a a Wi-Fi network and the lights all talk to each other and then there's a controller the controller for the north common lights is actually in um is

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actually in the box I believe inside the common it was supposed to be in town hall but I think it's in the box in in the common. Um, and that runs on power 24/7, but it's just one controller and then it Wi-Fi is out to everybody and all the lights

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are supposed to talk and the controller says, "Okay, we're going to dim." And it dims and then this there are sensors that's pick up movement and when that movement's picked up, the light will turn on and the control say to the controller, "Oh, someone's walking here. I turned up." And then

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>> Yeah, it's interesting. >> Yeah. I think I mean it's very cool technology. I was I was sort of chuckling when you said you know in some communities they dim them at 10:00 and in Ammeris that's when people come out to party at 10. So, it would I'm not

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sure how much how much uh ground we would gain by having timers that we would only be able to use between like 2 p.m. and and 6:00 a.m. >> Well, you you can you can program zones, too. And these smart lights, >> like you can say, "This is these are the

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lights in your downtown, and your downtown is open until 2:00 p.m." And then at 2 p.m. the bars close. Um, so then you can say, okay, at 2:30 you could start dimming the lights and the lights can stay dim until this time and

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then they can turn up again. Um, so you can make zones. If you >> if you get into this a lot, you'll see that that's really usually how it happens. There are zones. So on an interstate area, you would have the light stay on a little brighter and then

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as you might at 10 at 10, you might dim them. um in a residential area where it's all residences attend UDM um college campuses where you want to see everything all the time, they just stay on all the time. Um you have you have a

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it's a kind of an interesting world. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Good. Um Jennifer, >> uh yes, I um you know concur with Pam. I'd be interested to to hear the vendor's presentation and be able to ask questions. But I also wanted to ask, so

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the lights you have on the North Common, um, are they just on the North Common or they do we have them other places in town? >> We have one other we have one other light like it. It's at Kendrick Park, which was our trial light. Um, we put that one in when we did Kendrick Park

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just to see how it would compare to the other ones and we liked it. We liked it, so we went ahead and put it at North Common. When we do the lighting changes, I we have some lighting coming into the Kendrick Park. We have some lighting coming into the South Common.

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Um some of them will be newer style lights as well. Um actually only actually it'll only be newer style lights at Kendrick Park. The South Common is getting roadway lights and Ammon Street is getting roadside

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lights. >> So it's a case-byase basis. there's no overarching policy that you're following. Um, you might have some sympathy with some of these, you know, ideas of addressing environmental and and light pollution concerns, but the bottom line for you is it depends on the

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location in town and obviously the amount of money you have. Um, and so is a policy going to help? >> It would. It would. >> Okay. All right. That's good to hear. I think it's good for the committee to hear. Um, >> I do have a question that one more question. are those light. So, as you as

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we you move forward and have to replace lights or add lights in certain public places, will you be using those same lights that you have in Kendrick Park or is it too costly? >> No, the acorn for the acorn style

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lights, which are the ones uh the the glass I don't have a picture. The acorn style lights are the 12oot poles. As we replace those, we'll be using the ones in the North Common and that one at Kendrick Park. That's the style we'll use going forward. Um, and then we have

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we have probably four, five different style lights we use. Um, and they're for different purposes. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Andy. >> Yeah, I'm just um I'd love if we could get a copy of the current policy because

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I, you know, couldn't maybe Thea can send it to us or you know, you send it to George and he sends it to I don't know. that would be great to to to be able to just see what the scope of that is and then if there's um you know what would be helpful in

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updating it. I you know I I don't know exactly um but if if we can look at it then we can at least see that what what's working what what you've had and and if you have thoughts on what would be helpful in updating it that'd be great.

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>> So I'm going to summarize what I've heard so far and then I'd like us to move to the second item. But I appreciate Guilford taking the time to come here. I appreciate your contributions and thoughts. Um, I'm hearing from Guilford that he certainly thinks that an update would be a good

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idea. Um, I'm also sensing from him, though he hasn't said explicitly that he'd be open to something that if we put put together something, a draft, he'd certainly be willing to look at it. I don't know that he or his staff have time uh he hasn't spoken on this, but

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time to start working on a draft lighting policy. Um but that's uh so I think a vendor visit would be helpful for us. Um I think it could be it sounds like some of you are interested in that. Um and then I would be willing to put together at least from from this

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committee's perspective a kind of draft memo um summarizing as best I can and hopefully you will all I know you all will offer your input and we'll get it you know shaped but a sort of draft summary of what we think a policy should look like which could then become part

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of an actual policy or maybe it just goes to Guilford and to Paul and they do with it what they wish but that's what I'm hearing that there is I think a place for us uh given our schedule and given what I'm hearing today uh to at least get a copy of the current policy for us to review um schedule if if

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possible with Paul's permission and Guilford a visit from the vendor to ask more specific questions and learn more about this in detail and for me to put together perhaps with the help of one of you but at least put together a draft document that summarizes uh what we see to be the takeaways and we could shape

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that and refine that and then decide what we want to do with it at some point. Those are the three steps I see at the moment. Um, unless Guilford feels like this is something he really doesn't want to be bothered with right now. He's got too many things on his plate. He certainly does. I mean, that's the only

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or if Paul tells me that, then that would be perhaps the But it sounds like there's a willingness to at least hear what we can uh provide um and then go from there. Thoughts on that? >> I second it. So at the next meeting

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certainly I would make sure I mean we'll talk about future agenda when we get to the end of the meeting but I will certainly make sure that a copy of the current policy is available to everybody. I'm sorry it's not in the packet today. Um I will talk to Paul and Guilford about a possible visit from the vendor and see if that's a possibility. I'm not saying it will be at the next

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meeting but relatively soon which makes sense. And I will start to draft u based I will go back over this meeting. can't really take notes and run a meeting at the same time, but I will go back and try and summarize um the the key points that you've been raising that would go

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into a memo. Um feel free to send me uh just to me only um any particular points you'd like to make sure is are in that. I certainly hear the the some of the concerns about over uh underlighting as well as overlighting. So, that memo would certainly recognize that as well.

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Um, but I'm hoping that something like this could assist uh uh Guilford uh and Paul ultimately in in crafting a policy that's more upto-date and more reflective of of what uh DPW would like to be doing. Um, and if that could help

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them and we can do it ourselves, at least to get it started, that's what I'd like to do. Um, so unless I hear any objections, that's kind of where I'm going to try and head us uh at least with street lights for the moment. And obviously I'll consult with the manager and also talk to Guilford. Um Andy.

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>> Yeah. I just that sounds great. Um I would just as part of this it would be great if you could uh or us I don't know how but if we could get guidance from Guilford once we talk to the vendor and we know you know we we hear that but if

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we could get guidance on what would and wouldn't be helpful in terms of updating the policy. So, we're not going too too specific or technical or or whatever, you know. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Any thoughts on that, Gilford? One way

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or the other. That's okay. None. That's all right. >> No, >> that's okay. Sound okay to you? Okay. Um, >> yeah, I was just going to say this is an

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area we definitely just want to be helpful. We're not we don't have any, you know, we're not coming in with kind of an agenda. I don't think we're just we want to do whatever be helpful. >> No, I think it's a good example of how um we learn um and in our learning we can share that

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with our constituents and also guide us as counselors um and hopefully provide for the future. Um I think that this is a nice segue actually to waste haulers. So, uh, unless people have further points they'd like to make or Guilford has another, uh, point he'd like to

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raise, I'd like to move to the, uh, item number three after we did item number four. Um, okay. All right, waste hauler. Um

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what I asked you to do and I'd like to hear from you is what your takeaways are from what you've heard um from Mimi's presentation um in particular um I have a whole list of things that I have here but I want to

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hear from you on this. So what did you learn from this? What struck you? Um do you Yeah. So that's where I'd like to start. So, >> Andy, >> I heard um sort of three

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there there were three major changes being discussed. There was town contracted, so billing, etc. uh more robust pay as you throw and then compost collection. So those were sort of the three major

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clumps of stuff that I think we were talking about. Um >> that um Susan Weight was a useful source. I thought I was glad that she had sat in on the meeting and um she talked a little bit about phasing

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phasing it and possibly segmenting it that maybe the compost piece didn't have to be lumped together with one vendor who's also doing wa you know waste hauling. Um so and that maybe we try to get the the

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trash and recycling part um you know contracted first a and then um phase in the composting um the next year because it's complicated and so she was advocating for some of that phasing

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and then I heard that you know the idea of using the transfer station potentially as a place for um you know the vendor to consolidate their collection there. So that would keep the transfer station open and people could still then go and

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dump you know the the bigger stuff there or people could access it for for their own trash. I don't know what where we're going to fall on that, but those were the and I heard that Black Earth was a composting a big composter in the eastern part of

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the state and that they would be interested in moving out here, but they'd need a certain uh critical mass to to do it and there might need to be some regional regionalized efforts. So, that's what I that's what my notes are at least a start from them.

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Jennifer. >> Um, yes. I was also uh interested uh to read in the presentation by Mimi Kaplan that the or might have been I'm sorry a comment by Susan Wait or both

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that the state may start to require composting and that we could actually get ahead of this. So, um that was actually encouraging to hear. Uh, I also, you know, I've been very concerned about the transfer station. I don't use

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the transfer station. You know, I don't I have my, you know, trash collected by USA uh haulers, but um people So, I was actually expecting that maybe a higher percentage of residents use the transfer

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station, although 27% is significant. It's more than one in four households, but those who use it really don't want to lose that option. And I don't I think George and Pam, you both use the transfer station. If How do would you

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feel if we if the transfer station only picked up bulky items and then you had to be part of the uh you know um trash collection? It would cost me significantly more money personally. Yes.

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>> Yeah. So it's always seemed to me that that's something kind of sacrosanked. We don't want people who use the transfer station. >> But do 20% give or take people like me Pam get to decide what you know the majority gets to. So the other one of

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the things that I think Susan one of the either Susan or Amy mentioned was that what you'd probably do or what you could do is you'd raise the cost of the transfer station so that it would be um commensurate with or basically uh you know uh equal roughly equal to what the

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hauler is facing. So if you offer basically if you offer a really cut rate service, a certain percentage of the population, cheapos like me who are retired and have the time um will certainly do that um for the simplest purpose of saving money and the waste

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hauler who is trying to obviously you know make a business is going to see that as un in a sense unfair competition. So they're going to require request demand whatever that you raise the transfer station rates so that that cost difference is either um not that

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it's just not that great because right now it's quite substantial. Um and uh so yeah that would be my Pam your thoughts. I mean I would say we would we it'll cost us more money. >> It would definitely cost more money.

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>> Couple hundred dollars a year more. Um >> probably at least. Yeah. >> Yeah. And uh >> so if I was thinking if you had a and I'm sorry I just cut off Andy. Um if if you charge more if you across the board everybody gets charged if you know

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whatever the rate is. um that that would the transfer station would be available for anybody with a with a town sticker so that you could take your really big bulky stuff there or you know your flat screen or your old

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computer um and and pay the $25 you know handoff fee that kind of thing. >> That would be I think that would be a valuable service. It's those kinds of items that are just really hard to get

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rid of. Um, but if everybody if everybody had access to it for a low fee um as part of the package that that might be more acceptable. >> Okay, Andy?

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Yeah, I mean the the goal would be that the um cost uh for for overall would be lower for all of us USA customers. So the the differential wouldn't be as great and then you know there's a

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certain amount of cost to trekking over bringing your smelly garbage to the to to the transfer station. So there's a >> tell me about it >> cheaper. it would probably still be a fair amount of people um who wouldn't want to do it. So, but but I like the

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idea of like, you know, we have the transfer station. Maybe it's a benefit to the hauler as a consolidation place, but also uh you know, for the bulky and hazardous waste and electronics and things for for all of us having access to that. Um

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and then you know if it's we were hearing like it might be you know the average is in the low $300 range. So that would be a significant savings um for the 80% of us who or whatever 75% of us who use the the vendors and then you

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know it would be so so anyway I I I don't think it would be as much of a a differential as it is now. And then I guess the the vendors would still have to figure out what percentage of people am I going to get under that scenario um

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to to figure out whether they can bid on it or not. But I I like that idea of we have a we have this resource here where you can dump things that otherwise you can't just put out on the curb and I'd hate to lose that.

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>> Guilford has a hand up. Uh yes, just just a note, if you want to go with the vendor being able to process and transfer waste at the transfer station, you have to change the permit

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at the transfer station. It's just it's a process, but it's not a big process. It's just a note. >> What does that mean, change the permit? our our permanent transfer station allows for residents to come in and to drop waste and for the town to bring

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waste. They collect um at town at town properties and drop it there and then transfer it someplace else. If you allow a waste hauler to collect townwide and then bring the waste to the transfer station, the permit would have to be

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changed to include him at being able to dump there. And then the volume would have to go up because right now we have a I think it's we have a 20 20 ton a week volume limit. I think it might be a little more >> but there's a volume limit we have. And

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if you could do that route, that volume volume would have to go up and he would have to be included in the permit. It's just a process, but it's not something that's automatic. >> Is that a state permit that you have to get? >> We would have to change our state permit and then we would probably be required

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to go through by through the ZBA and change our ZBA permit. >> Got it. >> So, they mentioned an aggregation center. Um, and I don't Gilford, can you help me understand this so that it might be attractive to a wastel? Maybe that's what you're describing as

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>> So they would bring their stuff to the the uh to our transfer station, but then it would be put uh into uh semis or it' be put into some kind of and then eventually taken from there to their facility. Is that is that it's not it wouldn't be dumped with us um because we

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don't have the capacity, right? So it would it would it would just be a sort of a place to save them some money uh to aggregate it and then come and pick it up. Is that basically what we're looking at a possible scenario for the transfer station? >> Correct. I mean, [clears throat] right

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now we're having a industrywide we're having a really hard time hiring drivers with commercial driver's license, >> right? >> So, you're seeing a lot of new waste haulers. The the one that popped up in East Hampton, every one of their trucks is under the commercial driver's license requirement.

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>> So, they actually just need a regular driver's license. So for them, it would be easier to have a place where you only you only drive the six or 10 miles collecting it, you drive to a spot, you unload it, you consolidate it into a bigger truck, whether it's a tractor trailer or just a bigger truck, and then

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you haul it off. That would make it more feasible for them to operate. >> Would it be something you feel that our transfer station could handle? That obviously we'd have to change the permit, da da da da, but you don't see that as a like there's just no way that could happen at our transfer station. Um,

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or shouldn't happen. It >> it's it's possible that the to change the state permits is very possible and when you talk about what we're doing, they would probably be very agreeable to it. The um changing the ZBA permit would be the is changing an Ammeris permit is

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always a question, but if everyone is on board with the plan to to change the hauling, they would probably be on board with supporting the change in the ZBA permit. Wouldn't it have some positive environmental impacts as well as making it more attractive to a waste hauler which also would mean that it would

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reduce cost to the consumers? I mean that's my my main thinking is the reason to do this is that would bring some real benefits on a number of levels as as opposed to just being a convenience for for say the vendor. Um it would have a number of positive impacts on a whole different number of levels including

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keeping the transfer station open. Um and hence we can get around the permit problem. Uh I'm more concerned about is there some just practical issue with the station with the you know the space you have there. >> No you'd be you'd be it would be very

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easy to add a to add a consolidation site to consolidate it more than we are. It wouldn't be a big it wouldn't be a problem. >> Okay. Okay. Because that was something that attracted me as a as a potential >> Okay. Andy. >> Yeah. I I just wasn't sure whether the

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consolidation was talking just for the the compost or for for hauler, but I guess with the East Hampton example, it sounds like that would be attractive for the hauler too. Well, that you know also in my mind raises the one of the things. So I again

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I'm open to other uh you know highlights or things but a couple of the things have been mentioned are exactly the things that I keyed in on. Um but one was the idea of separating out composting from um trash and recycling

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having a separate vendor. Um and for a whole host of reasons from what I heard that seemed to be not an unattractive at least something to explore. Um I did get the sense listening that um a a uh traditional vendor somebody doing trash

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and recycling who either uh USA does do composting but not as you know huge scale in Amoris the other possible vendors that I've heard of don't do it at all. But the bottom line is adding composting would increase the cost and and Mimi has no idea and maybe she'll

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have a better idea when we see her next but no one had any idea how much but it would definitely be. So, what if you had a vendor who did composting in your community separate from um the the the recycling and trash, which these guys already do um and and do it fine? Um

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that attracted me as a strategy? Um uh any thoughts on that or people, you know, like they don't really care. It could be one vendor, it could be two. Um but it seemed also it offered the opportunity to work with other communities around composting. Um I was

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attracted by the idea of you know reaching out or if you could form some kind of you know composting you know East Hampton, Northampton, Amorest would be attractive to a potential vendor in that field. Um uh also the question of mandate um what

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do you think about mandating composting versus making it voluntary or offering incentives but not requiring it? Pam, >> uh, thinking about the the request for proposals, um,

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like like in any other scenario, you might have one uh one vendor who could do it all, or you might you could you could solicit or encourage uh teamwork teams of of vendors to supply the

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different portions of your of your the product that you need. And so you might get you might get combinations of of um vendors working together to submit a bid. So I don't I I really don't think

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that's a deterrent. Um I I did take to heart that uh it it might not be a good idea to do everything all at once. I know compost was probably the driving force in terms

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of initiating this this effort. Um and maybe so that might be disappointing to a lot of people if we didn't do composting right at first. Um I'll just >> But what if but what if we do it right?

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What if we actually take I mean this is what I think I got from Susan Wade was take your time. Do it right. Think it out clearly and get the public behind you. Don't just make a change and tell everybody okay now you got to do X. Um so I share the desire to to see this

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realized but I also heard this is what I heard. One of my takeaways was you know do phase it. I think that's definitely something I heard and and get the public on board and do it in steps even with composting you know don't you just can't

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um but uh so I think I agree with you Pam that that it may take time but I don't think there's any I mean from speaking for myself and perhaps for you at least um is something we want to see happen but it may take longer than some would like but we want to do it right and we want to get it right and we want

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the public on board we want public support because if I If I mean if people if people across the board generally could save some money knowing that the town had solicited competitive bids, you know, this is like

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this is the best price that you are likely to get >> and that it is that it is cheaper than um you know, USA Today or whatever their whatever their name is. um uh when when

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those folks came in and and sort of bought out the the other the amorous trucking and do so um there was sort of an assumption that everybody had to go to them when in fact we had other options but most people didn't realize

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you know USA just started showing up and then started billing. >> Um I I >> what Yeah. What about a model or system? Yeah. What about a MER system that um you you you if you can find a contractor who offers an ex a lower price. So the

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attraction to the consumer would be your your waste and recycling um through a town program would actually reduce your cost. That would be attractive to the consumer. >> And then the second piece would be a composting element that would start out probably as a pilot program. Um maybe we

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could and you know but put the pieces together but composting would be separate. um in the hopes that eventually it would grow to become you know much more uh robust etc. But um that cost would be be a separate cost um that consumers would either choose to to

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take on or not. Um and we would the town hopefully at zero waste ammer and lots of us would work very hard to encourage people to participate in it. There could be incentives on the town. There are programs apparently where you can help people buy, you know, bins. Um there's

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outreach, education, da da da. But um that would be separate and uh from the the main component, which would be trash and recycling is that's kind of what I'm seeing as a possible way to go. Um you're right though, it would not meet perhaps the sort of you know immediiacy

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that some would like, but it might have a much greater chance of success. Um, and so that's one of my takeaways is kind of trying to separate those two and then working hard to make the compost piece work. Talk to Black Earth, talk to some of the other communities, um, and

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and establish a robust pilot program and provide incentives for composting because that's where the challenge is. I think I certainly get a fair amount of resistance, sometimes surprisingly, from people I would expect not to be so about composting. Um, and they just say, "I

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don't want it. I don't like it. I just I don't do I want to do it and I think they're mistaken and I try to convince them and sometimes I succeed in saying it's not that hard and da da da but I think there's a fair amount of education and outreach we need to do and zero waste certainly would be wanting to do

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that and help do that but um just a program that does everything all at once. Composting is thrown in there. The price is probably going to be fairly high because the composting piece is going to cost if you have one hauler doing it all. Um, and if you mandate it,

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it's definitely going to cost. Um, so that's my initial sort of my takeaway, Jennifer. >> Um, so one question I have for Guilford. Does does the town um have any feelings about contracting with two different

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vendors for composting and the pickup? I mean, does that make it more complicated? No, I I mean it's I don't think it's I mean we we contract with multiple different people for multiple things. It's >> it's just uh

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>> the more people the more complex it is, but then again it's not difficult to do and it's not >> it's not something to stop you. >> Okay. I so I'm very I'm one of the sponsors and so I what I liked is that

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this may force people to compost who don't otherwise do it >> but my husband doesn't is very resistant to composting. Maybe George could try and >> help me otherwise. So I really do understand about not forcing this.

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>> You know I I think it'd be great if we could incentivize it but maybe not force it initially. He he cannot believe I'm >> right. Right. I I get that as well. And but that's one of the things that was my takeaway that incentives and outreach

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and a preferred vendor. So the town could have it has a contract with a a waste hauler for recycling and trash but um has a preferred vendor um if we you know over it would take a year. It takes some time but a preferred vendor. Uh and we'd roll out a composting program

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townwide but it would be voluntary. uh people would you know we'd offer incentives and we'd we'd promote it um and we'd have preferred vendor and maybe we could work with some other communities but anyway that would be a separate piece would come later now hopefully not very much later but later

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so that's the phasing I like that I like the incentive piece I like you know separating out um and the question is the sponsors I mean you can talk to your colleagues who are now I think we have some new sponsors for this um what their thoughts are but this is valuable for me because these were some of the takeaways

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I had hearing this presentation. I want to hear if the rest of you were hearing the same thing or hearing something different. Um, so that's the point of this conversation at this stage. Um, Andy, >> um, yeah, I'm just thinking about the RFP again. sort of

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I I could see that we would be saying we want to have trash, recycling, and composting, you know, all available for curbside pickup by our residents um in a phased process. Um but we could we would invite

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um vendors to we would invite proposals from a single vendor for all all of those things or a partnership of vendors for the trash and recycling and the composting piece or they can bid on an individual part and we can put those

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together if that if that turns out to be advantageous. But um you know I think we'll find out we we don't know what the market is going to be. You know what people will bid until we offer that kind of flexible you know

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what would it c what what can you do for us for trash recycling? What could you do for us for trash recycling and compost? What could you do for compost alone? And then we either, you know, we we put those together and we see what's the lowest cost. And and then the

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the the compost piece, again, I think I think Jennifer's example is is right on. It's like some people really want to do it. Some people are like, "Oh my god, there's going to be flies and rats and whatever." And and um so how do you you

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know we had the example of you know if you require compost then somebody puts an apple out and you know in the bucket and says okay I'm like >> but it's not they're not really doing it. So, and then again the pickup if if you're starting to do compost pickup and

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there's only like 20% who are doing it, then it's expensive to drive all over town and only pick up, you know, right composting from 20% of the people. So, do you need to have, you know, bring your compost? So, you know, is it really going to be curbside or is it like bring

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your compost to this neighborhood collection site or something? Or I I don't, you know, I don't know how that would work. But >> Andy, I think Black Earth in any community they work in, I I may be wrong here and I'd be happy to be corrected, but I doubt that they're going to more than 20 or 30% of the homes in any given

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community >> and they're doing >> and they're doing fine and they're looking for more communities. So, I think if if your business is composting and that's your model, um you know, again, maybe we'll find out this is wrong, but I would think that, you know, they're already interested. They expressed an interest. Um and uh but

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that's what they do. They just do composting. They don't have to do all the other stuff. So, I would love to look at that uh side separately. I'd love to tell Mimi, you know, go to the trash haulers and and say we want recycling and we want uh you know, trash

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and then then have Mimi guide us to people in the composting field and find out what they would want to do, what they would charge um for a program that would not be mandatory but would be voluntary in a community where I would think there would be a sizable interest and hopefully we could grow it in

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composting. um is kind of like what I >> for both and and say, you know, we're looking to implement trash hauler now and compost next year and give us your best shot at each of those and >> see what comes in. I mean, it might be

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that it's 300 bucks a household to do trash and another hundred to do or maybe 50 to do recycling and I mean composting and right >> people are still paying less and they're getting more. So >> that would be the hope and then but it

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would be a choice. They would have a choice. They wouldn't be told by the way you got to do this and it starts tomorrow and it doesn't matter, right? Um and uh so there would be overall savings for the vast majority of consumers right off the bat except for

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people like Pam and me. Um and then uh the composting would be offered as a preferred vendor and we would do everything to promote it and but it would be an extra cost. I'd have to spend another $50 or $100 whatever. Um but I wouldn't have to go to the

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transfer station anymore. Um I and I would just have to put it out. I don't know that I mean that's the other question is do we want to send any of this to Mimi? Uh she's now off doing whatever she's doing and is there any

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particular uh you know like advice or guidance we want to give her um in terms of what she's doing. Um I still don't have quite a clear sense of what is coming back to us um even after that meeting and I looked at the tape and I'll look at it again. Um, I'll

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obviously be speaking to Paul. Um, but, uh, is there anything you any message you want to communicate to her at this point or are we more in a wait and see mode to see what she brings back to us uh, on more specific I assume numbers, cost, figures? Um, and uh, is she going

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to come back and report to us about composting possibilities? Is that something we definitely want her to tell us about next time we see her? Um, I'm not clear that we gave her that instruction. I'm not clear we want to give her that instruction. Any thoughts? >> I think that's the I think that's the

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driver, isn't it? I mean, that's the difference between today's subscriptions and tomorrow's opportunity for composting. I mean, that's >> But is it are we asking and maybe the answer is yes. We we assume that she's

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going to be looking at Black Earth and some of these other possible outfits and saying, "Well, what would you charge in Ammerst if we started a uh composting program um that was volunteer but blah blah blah?" Um or are you expecting her simply to to send this out as an RFP

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that says, you know, tell us how much you're going to charge to do uh waste and recycling? Tell us how much you're going to charge if you throw compost in there. And you three of the four vendors in this area don't do it. So, it's gonna there there's a tremendous cost for them to start up. The other one does do it,

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so it's going to be less of a cost for them, but so is that what we want to hear? I mean, that the answer may be yes. Um, then my question would be, but what about people who just do composting? What about firms that just do that? How much would that cost? And is Mimi gonna does she have the time,

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energy, direction to look into that? Um, I I it's a question. I don't know the answer. Um, >> I think it would be a Sorry, Jennifer cut her hand. >> No, go ahead. >> No, no, that's what I was going to ask. I mean, might there be two RFPs? One for composting and one for

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>> Yeah. Yeah. Could be. But what are we asking her? And and what is she what do we want to get from her when she comes back? Um, we definitely, you know, the contract has a time limit. There's a there's a money limit. At some point, Paul's going to look at us and say, "Well, it's also very good questions, but her contract is over. You're not

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>> I thought she was going to come back with the RFP, a draft of the RFP >> if eventually if if the contract doesn't run out of money in time. I mean, >> but why wouldn't that be the next step? I guess >> so. You you want to get back what you're expecting back from her is a draft of an

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RFP. >> We've been waiting to see what this will cost, you know, question, right? That's a factual question. and she you know but she can't get costs until she tells the vendor what it is that you know part of what the RFP will do is will give us a sense

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of what the costs are right so there's probably a limit to what she can actually come up and certainly in her presentation she was very cautious about you know what the numbers said and she said all of these numbers by the way do not include composting and she gave us a range >> but doesn't she have enough input to

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draft the RFP I guess that's what I >> I don't think so look she said she needed to research the RFPs. So, let's, you know, look at the RFPs that are out there, give us an outline, including, you know, using decision points. So we

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basically could say we want trash, we want recycling and we want um you know phased in composting and how what what kind of RFP can she can she give us whether it's a one one

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RFP that has segments or whether it's two RFPs >> and and it's basically we we we'd like to keep the transfer station open you know I mean we have a few points is like you know

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>> so if I can summarize RFP is to collect >> right >> input [clears throat] from the that will tell us what we actually can get >> right >> so I I guess I need to get I I'll raise recognize hands in a second but I'm also thinking about what I need to do next steps and it sounds like at some point I

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need to sit down with Paul and based on this conversation say here are the things that we are assuming Mimi is going to come back to us with and we want to make clear that that she knows what that is and that we also know what it is. Um and and then when she comes to us, we we will get what we're looking

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for. Pam, >> I'm looking at her presentation on page two is the roadmap outline and there are five decision points that we kind of need to make. And I think if if this

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committee did anything, it would be to um talk very specifically about each of those items and get a sense of what this committee feels like, you know, talk to folks that were like Jennifer, you know,

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Andy Steinberg, who who was, you know, a sponsor as well, and just say, you know, thoughts on uh food waste. Is it mandatory versus voluntary? Is it one hauler for everything or separate comp contracts? Timing and scope implementing

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pays you throw collection system single stream versus dual stream weekly versus every other week. Timing and scale transfer transfer station closing it or keeping it open, fee structures,

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household costs and town costs. Um, I mean, she could help with a lot of that just by getting some of the some of the the costs. She could do homework on costs without having to do the RFP proper, but but

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sort of picking our way through that and and identifying with her recommendations which one of these, you know, elements makes the most sense to pursue, then she can structure the RFP to do that. But it

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feels like we have some with her guidance because I, you know, we don't necessarily know this. Um, but I'd love to have her back and talk about the pros and cons of each and every one of these items so that we

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could say, "Yeah, okay. Let's do the RFP and it should contain 1B, 2, 3 C, and you know, whatever." Jennifer, >> or could the RFP ask for pricing for

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for each of those? I mean, I I think zero waste Ammeris would recommend that, you know, in the ideal world, we could have all of that if we could afford it and if there were vendors willing to provide it at a price we could afford,

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but couldn't. Yeah, that's what I I'm don't I'm confus cons don't understand why an RFP couldn't ask for that >> because we were like the last year in the council we said we um TSO could not make a

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recommendation to the council until we know knew what the costs were and that's why we were able to get the $75,000 we voted to appropriate it >> to so we could issue the RFP and then we could decide based on what the respons responses and the pricing was in these

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responses to the RFP. >> So if I just for example though so collection schedule and system is it single stream versus dual stream which is which is something you could ask the in an RFP. Um but weekly versus every

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other week I mean it feels like you know maybe that's a decision is is that kind of part of the bid. This is what it would be if we came every week. this is what it would be if we came every two weeks. Um maybe we could structure the RFP to, you

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know, describe options for for number three. And >> yeah, I mean for example, right now the way it works with USA is they pick up the trash every week, but recycling's every other week. >> Ah,

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>> yeah. So we're not going to necessarily specify this committee is not going to say this is what we want. We are looking for options and but and within a menu of options eventually we'll we'll try to focus well we will focus at some point

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on exactly what it is that we're going to choose. Um but uh pay as you throw. I'm sorry Andy you have your hand up. Why don't you speak first and then I'll come back to that. Andy? >> Yeah this doesn't seem that hard to me. You know, you road mapap outline and you

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make a you make a spreadsheet or a grid and say, >> "Yeah, >> tell us what it cost you to do single stream. Tell us what it would cost you dual stream. Tell us." >> Right. So, we just >> if if Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not that hard. We could, you know, I don't know why she wants to take the

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whole summer to get this together. I feel like we could do it together in about an hour, you know. And you make a list and and you're asking them to tell us what the cost >> exactly >> that way. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Give us a package that puts those

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together or menu that we can put together and >> you know and we'll do what we can afford. [laughter] >> But you know we don't know the details but if we're asking them to give us the the details on these various options so that we can choose what the right

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package is. But how can they give you pricing if they don't know exactly what it is you're asking them to do? I mean, USA Waste can tell you right now, and I'm sure the others can tell you right away what they would charge um to do composting, excuse me, to do uh trash and recycling.

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>> Well, if we're doing >> They do it all the time. They tell you what it would be. >> If it's single, I guess we'd have to tell them how many households there are. >> Exactly. They want to know how many house, but but they know. They can figure that out. It's not that hard. Um, and they're also in a competitive market, so they they're going to be thinking, well, they're going to charge

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X. So, you know, there's going to be some competition hopefully. That's the point. If you have competition, the hope is that when you get the final when you open the bids, there's actually a difference and there's a lower price and a higher price and assuming that they provide what you want and they have a

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reputable blah blah blah, you choose the lower bidder. Um, but so, yeah, they can do that, but the composting piece complicates it tremendously. I I I don't you know they're going to have a real challenge. The three outfits don't do it. >> So that's fine. Have an RFP that says

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tell us what you can do. >> Right. Right. Right. Fair enough. And they'll come back to the number >> for composting. And you don't have to bid on all of those. So the composters will bid on the compost piece and the trash people will bid on the trash piece and maybe a couple of them will bid on all of it. >> On all of it. Fine.

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>> You can put together. But it's basically we're doing we're saying here are the categories we want to know more about. >> Yeah. Yep. And then they tell us and then we look at what that menu looks like. >> So we really don't need the numbers right now. What we need is an RFP uh that then they bring us the numbers.

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>> Exactly. >> And then we look at the numbers and either go, "Oh my god." Or we go, "Oh, this is this is this is something that we should look more into." >> Um Okay. So what do you want me to communicate through Paul to Mimi? >> Write [clears throat] the RFP.

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>> Write the RFP. That's what I'm hearing. Don't don't spend don't spend a lot of time on a report. It's really not, you know, we really want to get to the gist of it. Don't don't talk about don't go into, you know, 20 pages of pros and cons and who's doing what. Just

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>> um start drafting the RFP. I mean >> based on the decision outline turn that into categories in our >> so [sighs and gasps] I mean I'm I'm happy to look at the outline and say these are the categories

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that come out of that and send it to you guys and George you can decide what you want to do with it but it or or you know any of us could do that. Well, let's take pay as you let's take pay as you throw. Okay. What do you want her to do? [clears throat] Um you want her to say okay we want a

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robust pay as you throw system. So that could be uh you know uh you know real price differential with size of of bins uh and then everything over that goes into a bag. Um anyway so you want a robust pay as you throw system that goes into the RFP.

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>> Right. tell us what your pay as you as you throw system would be >> and we wanted to incentivize people to actually use it. So they you know USA would say well we have a pay as you throw system but in reality it doesn't incentivize anybody to do much of anything. Um so that would be something

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we're all agreed we'd like that and so the RFP would include that. Um or would it maybe they would look at that and go you know anyway so pay as you throw. Um do we care about one week two week? I mean, I think they will tell us what they do. Um, as far as trash, >> I mean, they would tell us how much it

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costs for every week and how much for every other week. >> Okay. All right. >> Decide whether it's worth letting garbage sit around for two weeks or not, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, I would want every week, but >> Right. >> Maybe pay as you th I don't know. Yeah. >> Transfer station. Uh, you're telling her that we want her to offer them as a

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possible carrot um a collection or aggregation site? >> We would. Yes. But we would want to we would want to understand the cost of maintaining an open transfer station as well. Even if it's not staffed to the

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extent it is today or would it have to be staffed to the extent it is today? What are the costs of that? >> So one of their pricing will certainly include whether they can have aggregation station. I mean it'd be a lot cheaper for them. I assume they'd save a fair amount of money if they could use the transfer station as a

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collection site. Um, and so do we tell them in the RFP, by the way, uh, we are open to using the transfer station as a collection site? Um, because that will affect their pricing. I assume. Um, so does that go in the RFP? Um, I guess the

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answer is yes, it would. Uh, because we'd like to bring the price down as low as possible. And Guilford has told us that that's certainly doable. >> Well, and we can have a comparison is, you know, with the transfer station and without the transfer station, >> right? Well, I don't think anyone's going to close the transfer station

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totally. Uh, it just does too many important things. But, uh, the question is whether it'd be open for, uh, you know, people like me to bring my rec bring my composting. Would it be open for me to bring my own, uh, trash and so on. Um, okay. So, that again, that we'd

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have to they'd have to sort that out in the RFP, I guess. Um, should have to offer different models. So, I think it's going to be a little it's not as simple as you're making it sound Andy, but um you know, you want an RFP when Mimi comes back. You don't want a 20page report summarizing what people do all

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over the world. What you want is um on these basic decision points. Um you know, uh an RFP that touches on all of them. We look at it. We make sure that it has everything in it that we like and she likes and then she sends it out. I mean,

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>> I thought she was retained to draft the RFP. >> She had a number of jobs she had to do, but yes, that's the ultimate purpose is to get an RFP out. And you'd like that clarity number one. >> And hopefully she's actually an expert at this and not just um you know, a

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planner who has been tasked with dealing with waste hauler. Well, you know, >> well, she was also going to look at other RFPs, and I don't know if there are other RFPs out there that have compost elements, but um hopefully that, you know, there's there's some sort of generic categories that she could learn

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from from looking at other RFPs, too. >> I think Zero Waste Amherst and Susan Re are experts on this. >> Yeah, I think they've done some homework. Yeah. >> We should just, you know, talk to Susan Wait. [laughter] >> Yeah.

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>> Well, yeah. Uh, so I I I'm trying to understand what you want me then to do and it sounds like what I'm hearing is that I need to have a conversation with Paul and and get some clarity on what his communication with because I can't talk to Mimi directly. Um, I have to go through Paul. I think we all we all have

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to go through Paul. Um, and uh, you know that that we want an RFP. Uh, that's what we want to hear from her as soon as possible. Um and uh yeah any I guess I would benefit any other elements you'd like to have me

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communicate to the manager uh related to this um in terms of what you expect and you'd like it back by you know sometime in early July. I mean >> soon as possible. Yeah. >> Yeah. Before her well well before her contract finishes.

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>> That's for sure. If Jesus >> if the $75,000 is spent and we don't get an RFP, >> we're going to be very unhappy. >> Right. That is what we authorize the appropriation for. >> I know. I know. So, um Okay, good. Um

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but anything in particular that you don't want? I mean, in the decision points? Uh >> let's let it let's draft it up and then we have something to to to review >> to draft up what we take are the main takeaways here.

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>> No, no, draft up the RFP based on the road map outline content and decision points >> where you can do an apples to oranges comparison or an apples to apples comparison of various costs and

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combinations. Yeah. I mean, as Andy said, that list is what we would like to be in the RFP. >> That list being the the presentation >> page two stage two. >> Right. Right. >> And maybe with the notion of phasing in

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the compost the ne, you know, year two and keeping the transfer station. I guess transfer station's in there already. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I'm hearing clearly phasing. I'm clearly hearing um and again, please speak up if this is not the case, but I'm hearing phasing. I'm hearing yes

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compost but it's going to take time and um uh we're also interested very much in in seeing what individ what vendors who do just composting what they would offer to the community. Um that's what I'm hearing. Do I >> I would say I I would agree I would

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agree with with phasing in the compost but not in a in a lengthy offset. Um, I think the only reason to sort of delay it is that you're establishing, you know, new collection for everyone, new protocols for

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everyone, you know, with whoever the new vendor is. And just getting used to the new vendor for a period of time before the next step happens is, you know, maybe it's not a big deal. You just change vendors and the new truck shows up. Maybe it's that easy. Maybe we're

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making it too complicated. And if the composting if they could provide you we'll see the cost curbside compost pickup. I think that would incentivize maybe even my h I mean my husband that it's if it's easy to

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compost that more people will do it. >> Okay. Um so I want I bring this to conclusion. Again I appreciate this. I think it's helpful for us to kind of just amongst ourselves. I I do have not necessarily a

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plea. I mean, at this point, this is really in our hands. I mean, I would love to have the sponsors be more engaged and active, but um uh right now we have just one member of the committee who I believe is a sponsor. Um and everyone else is is elsewhere. Um and

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everyone has lots of things to do. But um at this point my assumption is that whatever uh comes out of this whatever bylaw is created will be the product of this committee working with the sponsors but not it's not going to be something the sponsors are going to be doing.

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Though I really would appreciate some help from them on some of this stuff. I >> I will work with you on that and I think >> I know right. Yeah. and you have you have some new faces and maybe they have some more energy. Um, and right now it sounds like well what are they going to do? Um, I think maybe here it's just

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communicating to them uh what you're hearing from this committee. And if somebody's like in an outrage that that we're not necessarily saying we got to do everything all at once, uh, they need to speak up because that's not what we are that's not the direction we seem to be heading in. And also the idea of of

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composting is something that may take a little bit of time. Um, so but yeah, I the bylaw that we currently have that was brought to us and is sitting there I think is, you know, >> well, I had a question about that. How

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>> can we keep working on the bylaw and before we have the responses to the RFP? No, >> I think you you need to you're right. Right. But we have a draft bylaw. It's like two pages, whatever, and it's got all kinds of bells and whistles and I hope the sponsors will take a look at it

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and at some point and then Well, but you're right. We need to hear from from >> Can somebody Can that be put in a package for another meeting? I don't think I've ever read the draft bylaw. The draft bylaw. >> It should be in the package for today's meeting actually, but if I didn't, I'm sorry. Maybe it's I I will make I sent

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it to somebody. Um I thought I sent it to all of you. >> Proposed way hauler bylaws. Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> And I and I need Jennifer to look at that and go, "Yes, that's it." Because there actually two. Um there's one that's a little bit older that's much

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shorter. And um but I assume the one that's called proposed wastewater bylaw is the bylaw that the sponsors currently are, you know, sponsoring. So at some point, if you'd look at that, Jennifer. >> Yeah, I will look at both of that. Confirm that. That's it. >> Because I know that Shalin worked on

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one, but that was never adopted. And then she >> one was much shorter and then this one was much more detailed. I assume it's a detailed one. >> I think it's the first one, but I'll look >> that would help if we just know which one it is that >> I will get together with the sponsors because I don't So it's Alicia and

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myself and then Amber and Jill bind on and I don't think we're breaking any open meeting laws at the four of us. >> No, you should be fine. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Um and you're not Yeah. So, >> all right. With this followup, I want to

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bring this to conclusion. U you definitely want me to reach out to Paul in the next week or so, actually next week [laughter] ASAP and say, uh, I need to talk to you about Mimi and what we expect her to be doing and make sure that she is clear on what she's supposed to be doing. Um, and

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the answer is the RFP. Um, and uh, >> page two of her presentation. >> Yeah. >> Right. And um again, if you have any particular thoughts that you would like me to share with the manager when I speak to him, please send it to me and to me only. Um but at this point, I

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don't think there's any role for us [sighs] in this until we get something back from Mimi, I guess, is really where we're at. Um I mean, I have Yeah. Okay. All right. I thought this was going to be all

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right. [laughter] so much for the meeting. No, >> I know. >> I know. I'm I'm looking at my clock going, I gotta get my I gotta go to the dump. [laughter] >> I That's right. Actually, I'll meet you there. I'll be there in about half an hour. Uh minutes. Can we have the

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minutes? I'm going to make a motion that we approve the minutes of May 21, 2026 as presented. >> And Rooney seconds. Thank you very much, Pam. Um, any comments, discussion?

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>> Any issues? >> Yeah. Okay. I looked them over. They look great. Um, all right. I'm going to move to a vote then. Uh, Andy Churchill. >> Hi. >> Jennifer Tob. >> I wasn't at the meeting, but I think I can still say

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>> you read them and you're happy with them. Yes, you can. It's up to you. Okay. Yes, then. Okay. Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> And councelor Brian is also Yes. and >> 4 Z and one absent for the minutes.

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Future agenda items. Um I have some things I'm going to obviously I'm going to bring back to you a some kind of of crude memo related to street lights. Um I will follow up with that uh with Paul as well. But I what

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I'm hearing is there's interest in having the vendor come at some point and there's interest in at least if we have time and it sounds like we might uh spending a little bit more time committee time on trying to uh come up with kind of an agreed crude outline

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uh policy. Um but that we'll see. I'm not sure that will be the next meeting. That's that I will ask about that. Um I will follow up with RAAC. Uh I don't think they're going to get to their survey. This is the resident advisory committee. They won't get to their survey probably until July, but I will

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reach out to the chair and see where that stands because we are waiting to hear back from them about what the survey would look like. Um, and uh, I'm not sure they're going to actually have us review it, but at least that we want to know where it stands and that they're going to proceed with it. Um, but that's

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a longer range thing, but I will check on that. Um, I will reach out to Paul obviously and talk to him about Mimi and what we hope to see and we like to see her by July 2nd. Is that not an unreasonable date? Does

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we have a meeting on June 18? Right now, there's nothing in particular for that meeting other than manager appointments. And I've been told that it's possible that he may take them directly to the council because the next time we meet will be after June 30. Um and uh it's

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just that's when committees restart up. So um uh I have a couple of things. Uh care and maintenance of town fields. >> That's something I'd love to learn more about and I'd like to >> say that again.

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>> Care and maintenance of our fields. We have a real problem with this. Uh it's and I would like not necessarily next meeting and I don't know how open Paul will be to this but I would really like us to have a conversation with some of the major players and understand why

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this is such a problem. >> Yes. >> Especially with our new field at the high school and at the new elementary school. >> Yeah. And and the minute they're they're all grass. So the minute people are going to want to play on them and it start how do we make sure that they

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don't just get trashed, you know, in the first rainstorm before they're really established. But >> even beyond that, how how does decision-m get made across the wreck department and the leagues and the schools schools, right?

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>> And DPW and so it is a bit of a of a mess. Um, and but I want to raise it with Paul and I want to have the sense that my committee members would like to hear from staff about this and I'll let you know

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what he says. Amethyst Brook traffic issue that's technically before TPC, but there's no reason why we can't. I mean, it's now uh June. Uh we still have a couple months, but the school opens in August and I'm not aware of any meetings

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or discussions or anything. Um and I would so I'm a little concerned about that. I'd like to know that that there's some kind of discussion going on about how they're going to handle the opening of the new school related to traffic in that area. It'll be raised at TPC as well, but TPC has a lot on its agenda

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and it's still struggling to get it pro process organized. So, I don't see why we can't also uh put that on an agenda and then have Paul tell us why it shouldn't be there. But um anyway, that's that's something else. Any

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>> I agree. I thought that was automatically TPC, but if we could help it along, >> no reason why we can't just add our voices to it. Uh, and hopefully someone will tell us, "Oh, we're we're meeting or there's going to be a meeting on, you know, June 30th, and they'll tell us

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who's going to meet and then I'll be happy." And then on June 30th, we'll ask them, "Did you meet?" >> Bring it up. >> Yeah. And just so um Pam and I have heard from some residents who live because part of um you know the the

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neighborhood to the north and west >> is in district 4 and they're concerned about traffic >> in that Amethyst Brook. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. So um I have no idea what's going to be on the agenda

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for June 18. Um but uh I will let you know. But these are things that I will certainly be raising with the manager and I will communicate to you. I think we're done. Uh I don't buy anybody else. I'm exhausted. Um >> I second it.

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>> You second exhaustion. Okay. So we have a motion that we're all exhausted. Um so the motion is to adjurnn and it's been seconded. I'm an I. Jennifer Tob. >> Yes. >> C Andy. >> Yes. >> Pam.

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>> Yes. The motion is accepted. 4 Z with one absent to adjourn. Thank you all very much. >> Welcome back. >> Yeah, Ryan. >> Yeah. I hope you get to the dump in time transformation. Maybe the race is on. Athena, as always, thank you very much. Yeah. Byebye.