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people. >> Here we are. Sorry everybody. So, uh, with Kathy being out, uh, went on somebody else's account and that staff person wasn't in today, so it had to start the meeting. So, thank you to Sean Hannon. I don't think he's here, but who started the meeting for us.

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Well, thank you, Paul. Uh, at this point, uh, two, three, we do have a quorum, but, uh, there are number of members who might still be

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coming into it um, and haven't gotten here yet. So, I don't know if we should uh start the meeting anyway or how you what's your recommendation? >> It it looked like Kim Kim was on a moment ago, but then

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>> Oh, popped off or >> Okay, that's right. But we are recording Andy, just so you know. So, you can if you have a quorum, you can call it to you can start whenever you're ready. And you do have an audience. There are

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about half dozen people in the audience. >> There's Kim. >> Okay. Um because Guilford was going to take over managing the meeting once he joined, but he hasn't joined either. >> Yeah. So, I'm the host for now and I can

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manage it if you whatever you want to do until Guilford gets here. >> Um well, we do have a quorum present. uh maybe we should go ahead and at least start the meeting and uh for the people who are here and not uh penalize anybody

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who's joined on time for being on time. Um do you want to bring uh open it up to the audience and then I will convene the meeting? >> It's open. It's being recorded.

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>> Okay. So, with that said, I'm going to uh call today's meeting of the Transportation and Parking Commission uh to order. It is Wednesday, January 10th,

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and it is 4:11 p.m. Um, and I apologize to members of the audience who may not have been uh may have been waiting to get in. Um but uh let me uh uh just note that this

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meeting is being recorded. It is um allowed that meetings can be held by uh virtual method is a virtual meetings through zoom or similar platforms and we have uh arranged this meeting

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accordingly. Um, and I need to uh call on members of the uh transportation parking commission who I uh know are present so that we can uh um go ahead and uh make sure that they can

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hear me and when they when you acknowledge that um you're here that will get us uh confirm the validity of the uh call in the meeting and uh we'll see if there's anybody else in the

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audience who should be brought in. Um Sam Mloud >> present >> and George Ryan >> present. >> Chief Ting >> present. >> Uh Ian Rudol

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>> present. Uh Greca Ller >> present. in Kim Tromblé >> here. >> So, uh I don't think that there's anyone in the audience uh who's a member of the

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commission that got in that way. Um and uh just if you if there is anybody in the audience in that category, they just should raise their hand uh use the hand raised function and we'll be able

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to spot you that way too. Um what I want to do is uh just um talk about the agenda for a moment and uh so that we can uh arrange the meeting accordingly

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and uh see if there's agreement to how we're going to proceed. Essentially on the agenda are three different items. Um, one is, uh, our continued work through our

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planning and process subcommittee to help this new, uh, commission to develop its processes and establish an intake portal in order to um, allow members of

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the public and users of transportation and parking facilities to contact us and request the attention of the committee to an issue. Um, so that's one bucket of items. I think the one that I pro I

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anticipate um spending the most time at today um is going to be about the Amethyst Book School and the transportation safety that we need to assure

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um and the steps that we need to take to make sure that uh we are providing um safe uh both automobile and uh student access by whether it be by school bus uh

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pedestrian or bicycle. So I think that we have some very serious safety issues that um we've been asked to take responsibility for or assist and uh providing responsibility for. And then

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the third one is is that I propose that we take up one of the issues where we've had a request. I don't think that we're going to be able to spend a lot of time on it, but I thought it was important that we um have a regular that we start

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regularly addressing issues um that are assigned to the commission to be a commission. um to follow on a uh what was said when we were forming the council in the first year of the council

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is that we were trying to uh design an airplane and fly it at the same time because uh we had responsibilities to uh administer the town as we were trying to establish a new organization and that's

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essentially where we're at right now. Um, so I uh chose the Mount Holio Drive crosswalk because of the number of um residents who were involved with it because it's fairly simple

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or straightforward issue and I thought that we could learn from the process of dealing with an issue by actually pursuing one that's referred to us at the last meeting. things came to us

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because they were on the council agenda and needed attention. So, um are there any questions or thoughts about the agenda going forward? If not, um, what I would, um, since I

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think that we were expected to do this and for very good reason, I think that it's very important that we always make, uh, time for public comment and allow members of the um, community who are interested in um, speaking to the

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commission about an issue to have time to do so. So, I want to take up public comment. uh public comment is should be on matters that are within the jurisdiction of the commission. Residents are welcome to express their views. I will uh depending upon the

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number of people who ask to be recognized, we'll allow somewhere between one and three minutes um for that. Um so if uh anybody who's in the audience would like to be recognized for

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public com to make a public comment to the committee um please raise your hand uh through the zoom process of raising hands which is uh should be on the bottom of your screen.

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I see one. Anybody else? two. Okay. Um let's just take them in order and um try and limit what you have to say to two

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minutes. I will um allow you to go over to three if needed. Um and I think that the first person to raise a hand was uh Castle O'Neal. and you will need to unmute your microphone and uh

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before you can start. So, >> welcome. >> Hi, I'm Castle O'Neal. I live at 20 Mount Holio Drive um with my husband Bruce Steedman and I'm just here to speak in favor of putting the crossroad

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in the crosswalk in. Um right now our neighborhood of ranging from toddlers to people in their 80s and 90s are active and like to walk and want to take advantage of the nearby uh restaurants and things popping up around uh the new

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South Ammer uh crosswalk down there. not crosswalk, roundabout down there. Um, and right now what's stopping us is it feels incredibly dangerous to cross 116 to get over on the sidewalk. Um, we don't have a sidewalk on our side of the

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street. People want to be able to send their kids down. Um, and it just it feels really dangerous, especially at certain times of busy times of the day to be able to get across that street. We have elderly folks who use scooters to get

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around. We have little kids that their parents want to give them a lot of independence and a crosswalk um right there would make a lot of difference from our neighborhood. We also see a lot of people from the nearby businesses who on their lunch break come walking in

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groups through the neighborhoods um and they also have to deal with that same issue without having a crosswalk there. Um, so, um, I hope you'll, uh, find a way to make that happen. Thanks, >> David. Thank you. Appreciate your

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comments. Uh, and I think the other person who's asked said, Brian Yellen, uh, Brian, uh, okay, please go ahead. >> Uh, thank you, Andy, and thank you the whole committee for making time today.

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Uh, I'll just, um, build a little bit on what Castle just said. Um, so Brian Yellen, 13 Noatic Circle. Uh, I live in the same neighborhood. Um, as Castle said, there's no crosswalk or there's no safe way to get from our neighborhood to

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the sidewalk on the west side of 116. Um, despite this, there is an elementary school about 200 yards away. There's a public bus stop 200 yards away. Uh, the northbound public bus stop, the southbound bus stop is directly across from the neighborhood, and there's no safe way to get across the street. If

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you're coming northbound on 116, um you go through the Pomeroy Common uh Pomeroy Circle, Pomeroy Commons at 25 miles an hour and immediately at our neighborhood it increases to 40 mph which coincided with where the elementary school is. Um through the center of Ammerst about a

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2-m stretch where the speed limit changes from 25 to 40 to 35 to 40 to 50 to 35 to 25 all in the span of a mile or two. and our, you know, it just it's not um it's not communicating the fact that we have Grath Park, we've got Hitchcock

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Center for the Environment, we've got a private school um just and a really high population density. You compare it to other towns like um say Southwick, sort of rural Birkshire towns. Speed limit drops to 25 miles an hour for, you know, the post office on the side of the street and there's really no one around.

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There's four or five houses and they drop the speed limit to 25. Contrast it with, you know, Crocker Farm Elementary, Hampshire College, etc. So, I guess what what I would like to say is that there's no safe way to get across 116. And I think one thing that I love that

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transportation community to think about is think sort of creatively and holistically. Maybe the answer is a crosswalk. Maybe the answer is is more holistic thinking about how do people safe people safely get through the center of town between these, you know, centers that are incredibly important

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for old people, young people. etc. get from bus stops to their neighborhoods um in a way that's safe. Um I personally don't think the current speed limits through the center of town, when I say center of town, I mean the center of the town of Ammerst, not downtown, but you

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know, basically from Hampshire College um to Route 9. Um it's a for the most part a high density uh region with a lot with a lot of mixed uses. Um and then me personally, I have little children. Um,

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I do allow them to go out on their own and I sort of weigh the the merits of independence against the possibility that they're going to get run over by a car. Um, it's not a place where I want to be. Well, thank you very much for your

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comment and uh as far as the crosswalk issues concerned u as I mentioned what we're planning to get at least start a conversation about that. Um so I

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think >> Andy I don't know if I still have the mic. I just want to say that I do think it's broader than just I I don't want to speak for the whole neighborhood association, but one thing I think we were trying to communicate is that there's a safety problem and we're looking for creative solutions. Part of

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that may be a crosswalk. Um maybe it's not. We're not transportation engineers. Um but right now if you're if you're 40 in tall, you can see down about 1.8 seconds away if someone's coming up the road at 45 mph. That's the reality. If

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you're looking southbound from our neighborhood, my daughter's 40 inches tall, um she's got about a two-c window to get across the street safely. Um so that's where we're at. >> No, I appreciate this the importance of the issue and uh the uh petition has

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been provided to all members of the commission, a petition that was um circulated within your neighborhood as well as the request memo that went with it. Um, so, um, thank you. Um, Paul, we

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have one other person. I think he's, uh, could you bring Michael Gallo Okonnell into the meeting and I'll introduce him to everybody as soon as you do. Um, but he's up front. Castle O'Neal has her hand up again. Castle, did you want to

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speak again? Um, I think that we need to move on and u but uh I want to um um Michael uh Michael is the uh facilities director

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for the schools including the public uh the elementary schools. And um when we had the meeting um that that I wrote about my memorandum yesterday in which we talked about school safety issues um

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he was um a very important participant in the discussion uh both because uh he's responsible for the school bus routes and um uh oversees

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uh the kinds of issues that we're discussing from the school perspective and um over and over and he's overseas the school staff that u deal with safety issues um particularly the

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t types of things that I think we're concerned about. So Michael, thank you very much for joining us today. >> Yeah, thanks for inviting me Andy. Appreciate this opportunity. does. Um, so, uh, Council Ryan, you have

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your hand up. >> Yeah, Andy, you may be doing this anyway, but I'd like to suggest that since Michael is here, um, that, uh, we proceed to item seven immediately and leave the other matters. Uh, we can deal

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with them after that. Otherwise, uh, it could be a good 45 minutes or more. So, are you open to that? I don't know what the other commissioners think, but since Michael is taking the time to be here, um I would suggest that we move directly to item seven.

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>> Is that agreeable to other members of the uh I think I'm seeing seeing that but not >> Thank you. >> Jim, did you have something you wanted? >> Yeah. Um, we really need to get to at

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least my first agenda item so that we can get the um so make sure we leave some time to get that so that we can um get the portal going. Thank you. Yeah, we we will. The um the two items that I

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want to spend the most time at today, I believe, are um the school safety issues and um the work that you're that the subcommittee was working on, including the portal. So, um I think that but I

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would like I was hoping that u Guilford was going to be with us. uh he had told me he would be here u but he hasn't arrived yet. Uh George >> again just for the sake of those who are present um I think we're going to need

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Guilford's input to talk u comprehensively about item number six. So um just as a forewarning um if we get to that item and Guilford is not here I'm not sure how much well I'm sure we can talk about it but we're going to

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need his input. So um just so for those who are here for that item um just be aware of that. >> Yeah. And I know um let me start uh why don't we start with the uh

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Amethyst Brook school issue and I don't know if Paul if you have any introductory comment you want to make or if you want me to just proceed. Um, yeah, I just texted Gilford just he was I was just in a DBW committee meeting with him about an hour ago, so

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not sure if that's still going on or not. I had to leave it. Um, I text him see if he's joining. So, no, I um I think you your memo I think working from your memo is the right thing to do. Um, Andy.

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>> Okay. Well, thank you. Um, you know, I wrote a memo yesterday and I tried to summarize for people who are uh not involved in the prior discussion u what happened in the past to bring us up to date. I apologize for the problems

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that I had in sending it because they uh turns out that the town website would not handle um the item that had that had the largest size to it. And um I didn't realize that

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until a couple of attempts at sending and then I realized the only thing that I could do was send you the link so that you could just uh get it yourself since it was available on the town website. Uh

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when we had the meeting last year of the town services outreach committee and talked about this issue, uh the people who are present from who are from the commission, uh Chief Ting, uh Guilford

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Moing, who hopefully will be joining us soon, Councelor Ryan and myself, because I was a counselor at that point when we were both members of the committee. I was the chair last year. George, of

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course, I'm not on the council anymore. Uh, councelor Ryan is the chair of the committee. Um, and then we have Michael um who is uh also present at the meeting

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last year. So there are five people who are um involved today, assuming that Guilford gets to join us who were in the meeting um previously.

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uh where we talked about the issue and we uh looked at it and thought that there was um two things that um having some problems with. uh the the we looked at it as both the

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long-term issue as to whether there need it to be major changes to the um roadway to Southeast Street in order to improve safety because uh once the initial proposal of four roundabouts was not

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pursued, there wasn't any time to continue on and there was a recognition that that was an important issue that would come back to the transportation and parking commission once it started

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uh its work. And the other u piece of it was that uh there was a feeling that we needed to be attentive to what needs to be done right at the beginning when the school opens since

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there won't be any changes unless there changes that we can mandate pretty quickly. And I think that during the conversation we can talk about some of the ideas that came up a year ago during that meeting. Um but uh uh I think that

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there was concerns about um both uh traffic getting in and out on both entrances, the school bus side and the um regular attend uh the automobile side

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which is the uh one that's further to the north. And uh so there was that range of issues. Is there anybody else who was involved last year who would like to add to what I've just said in

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summary? Uh Michael? >> Yeah, there's an an additional issue um because the new the old building is going to be demolished um after we've accepted the new building. It's not going to start demolition until

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um September. So, it's going to be probably September through end of November, maybe into December, which means that the um current river entrance is not going to be open to us. It's going to be uh for the construction

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vehicles. So, we're going to only have one entrance. Um the entrance right now that is the construction entrance. Um that would be the only entrance till probably December. >> Uh

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could you tell us what the plan is for parents dropping um their children off at the school and picking them up before and after school during that period of time. and um where

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the parking is going to be and how people are getting from the parking to the school. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, there was a plan that was in place for that. Um there's going to be a temporary gravel road between the um

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the bus loop and the current parking lot. So, we'll still have access to that um larger parking lot, but it'll only be one um exit and entrance. So, it's going to be a challenge getting um everyone's going to be dropping, you

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know, trying to get out of the parking lot at the same time basically in the morning and in the afternoon. Um we're going to have to like I'm not sure we don't have a um you know, fully formed plan about how to handle that. It

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will involve a lot of um staff involvement like directing traffic inside the parking lot for those two times a day. It could potentially involve having to hold parents um in the lot until the um

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10 to 12 buses are able to exit um the parking lot. >> Um let me just note that Guilford Moing is uh here now. Guilford, can you confirm that you're present and we can hear you?

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>> I can hear you. >> Okay. And we can hear you. Uh, welcome. Um, let me see if there follow-up questions to what uh was just reported about the temporary road parking and access issues

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during this period of time when the school opens, which was what we're really trying to make sure that we address safe uh to safety to the extent that we can make recommendations. Uh Kim.

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>> Yeah. Um thanks for um telling us about that unexpected issue, Michael. I didn't realize that. Um it sounds like it I mean already it's going to be a problem and then limiting access even further is going to be an even more significant

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problem. And um uh one kind of thing that uh example of what might need to be done, you were saying that you might need to have some par, you know, some involvement with um teachers directing traffic. I can tell you that um uh for a

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w for a long time I I our children went to the Chinese immersion school um you know on route nine and there was a similar it was it was really chaotic and they figured out a way that um you know restricting I mean no one wants to do

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this but it kind of restricting car use prioritizing bus use um as the safest method And um you know it might be something that needs to be done in the beginning of the school here cuz that

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can be done and it it actually ended up being very very efficient. So >> yeah, we are intending to encourage parents uh to have the kids ride the buses. >> Yeah. I mean the parents will probably want

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that because it will be very chaotic and probably >> if you're getting stuck in the lot, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I actually uh hadn't thought about the issue that you of the uh demolition of the current school because uh the

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parking lot was literally right and in front of the school and between the school and the road and how a building could be demolished and materials removed um with the parking lot in use. I guess

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I'm trying to get my head around that. Uh Sam, you have your hand up. >> I think George was before me. >> Go ahead, Sam. Go ahead. >> Uh uh thank you George. Thank you Andy.

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Um so couple things. Uh just a general comment. I I think it would be helpful uh well this is a very important issue as I see it. Uh how many kids are going to the school? Tons. Uh it's a safety issue and I drive by that road all the

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time. Under current circumstances, it's congested. Uh so I hope that we will not rush to any determinations and that we will be thorough in the process. Uh in that regard, I think it would be helpful if we could get materials. You know, the

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the sooner we can get materials, the better. I was able today during my workday to review what we received yesterday, but I think it'll be helpful for everyone if there's any new information that we have an opportunity uh to, you know, to check it out uh because

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um I don't know what the critical path time frame is for decisions that we need to make, but uh I just think it's very important and I wouldn't be comfortable voting on anything today myself. uh not to truncate others but uh I think we

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need to uh get our hands around the information. So uh having said that uh the only question I have based on what I just heard is do we know the time frame as to when the demolition of the house is likely to occur

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>> of the school you mean um >> of the of the I thought there was another building that was being torn down. No, the current school river. >> Oh. Oh, excuse me. I I misunderstood what was said. >> Yeah. No, said question of demolition of

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the current school building because that's going to be playground where the school sits. >> Okay. So that the demolition will I mean it'll begin after um so they're scheduled to

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turn the building over to the town um July 31st. So it will probably be September. I think in September the demolition is going to start. >> Thank you. For some reason I was thinking it was at the house at the entrance but uh that was a separate

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issue. So sorry. Um George >> um I like Kim's idea very much of encouraging um people to make use of buses. Um that is certainly I think the

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first important step but I think it's also true that this is going to be extremely challenging and I too was shocked I guess but I shouldn't have been to find out there's only going to be one entrance now not two but I'm glad we know that now. Um I wonder if there's

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any role for uh parent volunteers uh using the you know just uh people on the ground who can at least be there maybe with vests just to keep an eye on what's going to be a very chaotic situation. Uh I think also we have to hear from the chief. I think he's made it clear that

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he doesn't see any uh way that he given the limits he has that he can provide um a police presence uh 5 days a week uh both in the morning and the afternoon. Um so I'm wondering uh a if that's true and I he will certainly weigh in at some

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point but I'm also wondering if there's any role for the you know the uh the parents volunteers would that be of any help? I'm also wondering where the parking I just would nice to have a map. I have no idea where the parking is going to be and whether that moving from the parking to the school involves

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crossing streets. Um so those are two thoughts. Um any role for uh volunteers for parents especially in these first few months? Um and uh what role if any can we ask of our police department? >> Let's see. Michael has his hand up and

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um >> so the parking I mean it'll be the the same parking lot will be available. It's it's um going to be a little bit smaller. There'll be some fencing up so there's an adjustment being made for

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that but it'll still be the same parking lot which is adjacent to the school. Um, but we will have to have some staff parking um, most likely either across the street um, in the common or maybe a

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little further down the road. Um, as far as parent volunteers, like I know that now at Fort River, they have a couple staff members that are regularly outside um, directing traffic at the end of the day.

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Um I know the custodian um is outside of the crosswalk each day. Um I think that if like the afternoon I think it's going to be less troublesome than the morning. I think the morning is going to be a higher volume of traffic

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you know at 8:00 in the morning. Um if there is an opportunity to have some uh assistance from the police then I think in the morning we need a time that we would really want to focus on. >> Uh Chief King.

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>> Uh yeah, thank you. I just wanted to um provide an answer for the suggestion of having police officers there uh on a consistent basis. uh that just wouldn't be uh we wouldn't be able to do it. We don't have the staffing for it. Um to

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commit somebody every single day uh during that time period. Um we have three officers on the road and one supervisor. Uh we just would not be able to do it. We've done it in the past for a temporary basis just to assist uh for a couple of weeks at a time and that's

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something that we can sacrifice. Uh but again on a permanent basis I would say no. Um, one thing I would caution in terms of having parent volunteers and even staff members is the liability. Um, I don't know what type of training that

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the staff members the custodian has for crosswalk or even traffic mitigation. And if there was to uh have some type of injury or accident, we're looking at some liability uh towards either the school or the

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town. And certainly if there's uh parents that are volunteering um you know without any proper training again that's that's going to open up the town for some liability. There there is a crosswalk training that the um

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that the uh they have to go through to become a crosswalk uh monitor, but I don't know if that involves any I mean I don't involve like directing traffic in the parking lot would be something different than that. So you're probably right. I think I

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probably maybe agree. >> Yeah. Um the first part of this question has mostly been answered by Michael and that was just whether there was already staff that was uh crossing guards. Um but uh the other concern um sort of echoes

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something some things that have already been said about parent volunteers and training and liability uh and also Corey training. um given that it's a an elementary school um

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and uh yeah viability in general. >> Uh Sam, >> thank you Andy. uh uh hearing uh Chief Ting's response and the concern of uh fellow commission members, a thought

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popped into my head and I don't know if this would fit or not. Uh I'm not sure what the duration of the problem is going to be. The you know when the school will be the other parking lot will be viable once the demolition is

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finished. But uh this came up at town council the other day looking for uh potential uses. Could crest be utilized in this type of capacity? We do have staff. They're limited hours and I

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recognize there's uh different training involved as Chief Ting was alluding to uh for traffic and what if something were to occur. uh but at the same point in time these are uh town employees uh

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who are you know trained to deal with folks this is an acute situation of course concentration it's a thought for potential discussion that I'm raising and I don't even know if having people

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there on the scene is the optimal solution may you know what jumped into my head was all right close both ends of Southeast Street on that section. You still can't limit all the traffic, but you know, can we somehow lessen the volume of uh folks coming through there?

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Thank you. Yeah, I mean I'll just comment on that is that uh it's unfortunately a common route from some areas into the university which is creates a lot of traffic at that um particular time of

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the morning commute. Um Kisha >> um I'm wondering do do we have any sort of data on how students are currently getting to school? What percentage are using uh the buses? What percentage are maybe we could separate out even car

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pooling versus sort of having a like one child per car situation. Um and uh how many students are biking. Um, and I wonder if maybe there is uh I don't know what the bike infrastructure looks like there and if that's um sort of similar to Kim's earlier suggestion about uh

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promoting bike use uh bus use if if that's also a viable sort of way to to diffuse the number of cars passing through. >> I can I can speak to that. Um I don't have an exact number of how many students are are walking. I think

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probably about 80% of the students are taking the bus though. Um, and those numbers are going to fluctuate because it's Wildwood and Fort River now. So, it's going to be families that are, you know, located in the Wildwood area now getting to Fort River. So, I

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think because of that there'll be like naturally some more students that'll be taking the bus is going to be farther away. Um, that could be helpful. Um, what was the second part of your

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question? the bike infrastructure of which there really is very little GCA and our TC the previous TAC had real problems with um the current location and biking there it's very it's not a

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place I would send my elementary school on the road there anywhere good to know and >> I think particularly in the beginning of the year when there's g now going to that area so there's be more challenging ones, which is too bad.

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I'd like to encourage kids to go to ride their bikes. We did have a presentation by some of the students um at Fort River a couple of years ago to attend services and outreach committee meeting. And uh I think that

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what we were sort of sensing out of it is that the largest number of students who were coming by bicycle to the current Fort River School were coming from uh the Echo Hill area. And uh

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the issue there was is aside from riding on sidewalks um that it's not safe that um uh whether you go on the main street side or the

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Route 9 side that there's safety issues either way. So that that was a major concern that was being uh discussed and um trying to think if there's oh there was some discussion about the fact that

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there actually is but not maintained pathway from uh the main street side into the school without having to go all the way over to the south all the way to southeast street but it's not maintained

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and lit so that there's uh it would need need work to to make it a usable pathway. U I don't know if anybody else has comments on that who's in the discussion last year.

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Michael >> India are you referring to um the path like at the back of the fields of for river that goes to um home road? Yes. Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> Um, >> yeah, initially that's I mean I don't think there'll be access to that while the building's being demolished, but potentially in the future that >> that could be >> a point of access. I think that when we had the discussion

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last year, there were a lot of things were being talked about, but uh the u their time is closing in on us and uh there were complications with them. I remember we had a quite a discussion

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about whether there was a way to uh have a traffic light installed at the south entrance so that school buses could safely make left turns out of the parking out of that particular entrance way and

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into Southeast Street given its closeness to College Street. And uh I think that Guilford you talked a lot about uh gave a lot of information about what would be involved in putting in

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such a light but that was the major discussion that happened last year. We really didn't fixate on the issues that coming up now in discussion. Kisha >> I have one more question. Um I'm is

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there any sort of secondary location within say a half mile of the school where uh parents could be directed to sort of park and then you know walk the last uh you know hopefully like 10 or

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less minutes uh for parents where where that might be a viable option or I mean I know it's it's pretty central uh so there may not be sort of just easily available land. But I I wonder if that um is something that was discussed

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earlier. >> If anyone has any response to that, >> there wasn't there I I was at the meeting too. Um and there was no there that was not a discussion. Uh, George,

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>> so I think my question is somewhat along Grac's lines, but and the answer is probably obviously no, but if we could restrict access um and just um say to parents, you just either

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you can't bring your kid by car to the school or you're going to have to bring them to a separate location. And uh uh because otherwise I think what's going to happen is we're just going to open it up and we're going to see what see what

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transpires and maybe that's probably what maybe that'll be it. But is there any way to restrict access? So, it's just staff um and school buses and maybe one or two other categories of you know absolutely but you know if you want to drive your kid to school um either you

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can't do it but probably impossible but or you're going to have to bring them to a certain location and and they need to walk them there or they'll be walked there by by trained volunteers. Otherwise, it's open season. We're just going to see who shows up and we'll deal

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with the ensuing chaos. It strike me that we need to have the schools very much involved with this discussion because if you were to do that, you'd have to recognize that

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there's the question of making sure that there's safe access from the drop off point to where kids come in. There's questions of what happens when the weather is not it's not a good day weatherwise for any significant walk

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whatsoever. What you do about children with any kind of uh >> disability or limitation, what you do with very young children. >> These are things that uh we really rely

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on the schools to have the expertise on. And um I don't know how how that gets brought to this particular commission to try and help advise on. Uh Sam

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>> uh thank you Andy. Uh uh two thoughts. one is just you know inquiring or confirming what it is that we're trying to do here today and when we meet in the future. Our object am I correct that our objective

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is to identify suggestions andor uh potential options that could assist with safety in the near term uh as opposed to long-term road and or other changes. That is to say, we're seeking

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to resolve the immediate critical path item of schools about to open. Uh and a second question affiliated with that is uh assuming that we have some suggestions andor options whatever they

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might be whether they're closing down roads putting up signs and anything is how quickly are we as a town whether it be through our committee commission the school committee the uh uh safety

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departments DPW how quickly can we actually affect change. That is to say, would a situation such as this constitute something external from the normal processes so that we could move quickly? I'm essentially asking about

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the critical timeline. How much time do we have to uh as a town whether it's our commission or otherwise, how much time do we have to uh implement any actual changes through TPC or otherwise?

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Well, to the extent that the school is opening in September, it's the beginning of the school year that would come up. um what the uh charge was that was placed in the uh town manager goal

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uh document for uh this current year was that the manager was charged to work with the TPC DPW schools and police chief to develop an interim plan for managing traffic and public safety when

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the new elementary school opens. with a focus on Southeast Street and areas surrounding the new school. And uh you know, it was with that goal in mind that um I think that Paul was asking that the

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TPC have this discussion today to give um him some input on what the issue is about. And uh uh that's why I asked Paul at the beginning if he had any introductory

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comment that he wanted to make about what his um expectations were for today's discussion because uh I don't know what else uh you know we can do what we can do u but there isn't a lot

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of time to answer the question. Jim. >> Um, I think George had his hand up first. >> Just to point out the obvious, we meet twice >> between now and the beginning of school and the second meeting will probably be a week or maybe a few days before the

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school begins. So this body is not going to be in any position to um fashion a plan or I mean we can offer advice but um I think the principles you've named I think what we want to find out is are they meeting what's their plan for

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meeting and we'd like to know what the plan is. Um, some of our ideas may be just foolish and and immediately dismissed. That's fine. But I think ultimately, uh, between the schools, um, our police chief, um, and our DPW department, we're asking them, what is

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the plan? So, Michael, >> I So, I I'll have to um speak with somebody else from our administration because I'm I'm not sure about if we could um exclude parents from dropping

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off their kids off the school. Um I don't know if we'd be allowed to do that. So, you know, I can I can talk with u you know, somebody else in central office and get their input and maybe try and bring someone from there

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uh to the next time that we meet or if we meet with um you know, guilford and chief king try to come up with like a um more concrete plan. Um I don't know the answer to that. I feel like that there will be um

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you know uh that we wouldn't be able to to you know force them to park you know a certain distance away and walk. Um I think there would be a lot of u lot of issues with that. Uh Kim,

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>> yeah, one one thing that perhaps could be done because it seems to me that the biggest issue is going to be when the school buses are there and dropping off kids and getting the school buses in and out. Um that parents are restricted from dropping off until a certain time after

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school starts. And that's what we had to do at PBCICS for a while. So really uh so it' really be then asking the schools if there's a way that they feel that it

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needs to be regulated given the limited space and a drop off that was designed only for school buses and not for all. So our are our school buses are available for all students within like a

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certain distance from the school. Correct, Michael? >> Yeah. If you live um outside the mile from the school, then you have access to schools. >> But even isn't the um the uh kind of large development that's um on the other

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side of the I I forgot what it's called. There's a there's at least one or two school buses that go through the development that's very close by there. It it's between Route 9 and Street. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Is there a possibility of a a drop drop

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off point where to meet up with school buses to ride school bus for that remaining distance? Um, I mean I I don't know how I can't see that

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working very effectively and it would it would require um, you know, a couple additional buses. I would agree. Yeah. Bill Hurtton.

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Um, first I'm sorry I was late. I thought the my calendar is messed up. But anyhow, um, I think maybe our charge is to support recommendations that come forth and there's really no recommendation

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right now. So maybe we need to just decide that yes, we think this is important and the staff should work on some type of solution that should be brought to the next committee meeting. >> I was beginning to think of Paul. >> Yeah, I just want to support that. We

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just haven't had a chance to pull everybody together. There's just so much going on right now. Um, but I think you know that with police and and Michael and Guilford, um, you know, we've done some Guilford's already done some work on this in terms of finding staff parking that we can utilize that's not

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on site. You know, we know that this is a this is not the is a tough location for schools. That's why staff voted against this location to put a school there, but you know, the the wiser minds, I guess, chose it. So, we knew that this is going to be a problem. It's not an easy problem to fix permanently.

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Our first mission is to get through this the first three months of the school being open. Um you know Guilford and uh his team have identified some offsite parking places and some adjustments that we might have to ask the council to make in terms of paving parking on roadways

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and things. TR crossing um Southeast Street whatever East Street whatever it is that we have to is going to be an issue. um we might have to hire additional uh police staff to manage it over this period of time or somebody you know you know someone suggested crust responders. Um the internal circulation

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is already a challenge. Michael's looked at different options for that while that while the building is still there. There's just not as many parking spaces there. Um, and they've looked at different scenarios for that, including stacked parking, like where cars you park somebody in and if you if the person who's parked in has to move, you

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go get your buddy and they have to move their car just to get more cars on site. So, these are all unpleasant and very not very great solutions. Minimizing traffic is obviously the right solution. You know, pushing people to take the bus

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is all is a great solution. Um, but in terms of the nitty-gritty, we just haven't sat down and and gotten into that yet. >> George, did you have anything? >> I think also the challenge of communicating this to the parents. Um, and the school is probably best suited

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to do that and we'll probably be able to handle that. But whatever decisions are finally made, uh, getting that to the parents so they understand because I I like the idea of a time window. Um, but imagine a parent showing up who has known nothing about this. Uh, there

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going to be all kinds of headaches and challenges. But, um, I think what I'm looking for, I'll speak for myself, is not that this commission is going to come up with a plan, but we just want asurances, and we just heard some assurance from the manager that staff,

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given the many other things they have to do, is aware of this and is working on it. And hopefully at the next meeting they'll come to us with what they think is the best uh possible uh solution of a very difficult problem and then at least some of us as counselors and others

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perhaps can help communicate that to residents and help with outreach um so that people understand what is going to be done and try to minimize that as well. But I think I'm for myself I'm I'm I'm looking to hear in July what

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the plan is that um that staff's come up with. >> I think that makes sense and we probably should move on in a minute to the next agenda item. Uh Greca >> George actually said almost everything I was going to say. Um, I guess the only

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thing I' I'd add is um part of our charge is to help promote non-car modes of travel. So perhaps um uh next time when we hear about this um there's obviously going to be ways that we're suited to

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support this based off of our uh experience or positions um and just the time that we have together. Um so sort of helping to uh as George said promote communicate uh these uh changes these challenges and the sort of alternative

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options uh may be something that we may be the part of this process that we are well suited to do >> Sam and then I'm going to try and conclude this. >> Uh thank you Andy. Uh I agree that uh competent town staff can come up with a

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uh plan uh or options that would be the desired choice. Uh it seems inevitable that uh Southeast Street uh Route 9 intersection and Main Street Southeast Street intersections are going to be

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problematic for the fall school early hours. You know, anything that can be done to mitigate traffic. sure makes a lot of sense, whatever that might be, including the uh the back road there, uh where the apartments are on the far side of the common. Uh the other thing I

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wanted to say is uh I can't speak for the committee or the chair, but I certainly would be willing to meet more than twice between now and September if there was any need for TPC to get involved. There may well not be but if

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there were I think this issue is primary given the nature of those individuals who will be going to those schools. Thank you. >> Yeah. Well my my comments to conclude and then Michael do you want >> Yeah. I just wanted to say that I'm also

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can make myself available um whenever you guys are willing to meet between now and um and August. So that's not an issue for me. Um appreciate the help. There's going to be it's going to be

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challenging. going to be a lot of pain at the beginning of the school year. But the positive thing is that at least we have you know there's a chunk of time where then some of that will be alleviated because the second entrance will open. So if we are asking parents to do things which they might be

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uncomfortable with then at least there's a finish line for them for that. So I think that might make it more agreeable some people hopefully. >> Just one very general question when does school start? uh August 24th.

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>> Oh, that's great because you know UMass does not start until September 8th this year. So at least there'll be a little time to you know before the real traffic issues start. >> Yeah, that's really good. >> So maybe we could postpone the start of

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school to September 2020. What do you think? That could be our recommendation. >> Yeah, the kids would love it. >> Kids would love it. We'd have great support there. that they'd be going to school until July, >> till next July. >> Anyway, sorry, sorry to be facitious,

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but yeah. Um well, last year when we had the meeting of the TSO committee of the council, you know, we we did distinguish between a long-term questions as to whether there

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should be um road redesign of Southeast Street to make it work better or um and that that should be a TPC discussion. And I think that we we kind of recognize

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that school's going to open and we're going to see how bad it is. And that might help the TPC to have that discussion at the appropriate time um after the um school is uh up and running

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for a short period of time and we have a better sense of it. in the question of the short term we recognized was not really a TPC issue and that's why the um recommendation

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that I made um to uh the chair of go committee and the go uh committee then crafted the language which I read before which I'll read again which was that the town manager should work with the TPC

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DPW schools and police chief devel to develop an interim plan for managing traffic and public safety when the new elementary school opens. U and I think that's we did have that

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discussion. I hope that um this was helpful to Paul and that Paul that this is what you were looking for from the TPC discussion. But it was never expected in that uh

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uh resolution that came out of the TSO committee or the council that the TPC would be able to solve the problem. Um, so I but I do um appreciate that um all

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of you put some time in thinking about it and Michael that you uh were here because I think that it is an important step. Um that will assist the process going forward. Um, and I wish uh Paul,

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you and uh Guilford and Chief Ting and uh Michael all great success in uh coming up with that perfect plan that we're totally unable to do. And is there any other concluding comments? Or if

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not, I'm going to move on to the next agenda item. Risha, >> just really quickly. So, in as a way of mitigating um other traffic going down that road, I wonder if maybe we could

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make requests to the PBTA to expand or uh alter one of the bus routes. Um I don't think we need to discuss it now, but I just wanted to throw it out there. >> All one of the buses are school buses or town. You're you're speaking of the bus

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system. >> PBTA. >> Yeah, the PPVTA. Interesting question. Um, >> yeah, we can take that in consideration too, Grecer. Thanks. Yeah. >> Okay. George, is this related or can we

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move on? >> Ah, it's related to moving on. Okay. What I would like to do is um then turn it um over to um the members

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who are on the subcommittee that we have that's working on process and planning u for to report on where they are and uh um to spend some time to move that

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process forward. So, uh, Tim is the chair of the committee and probably the person who should start that discussion. >> Yes, I am ready. I just need the, um, packet piece um, pulled up, the one that

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has the portal on it. >> Kim is going to kill me. This is why I'm glad this is on Zoom. Uh >> oh. >> Well, I'm sorry, but I just I have to raise it and then we'll decide what we want to do. We have three members of the public present who have stayed through this

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first hour and they're here to hear the discussion I assume on the crosswalk and it I don't think it'll be very long discussion and we could even set a time limit but I think as a courtesy to them since we don't know how long it's going to take us to work our way through the

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portal and the very important material that Kim is going to present um I would ask that we give 10 or 15 minutes max to address that so that at least they will can then go and then we can focus on the business that we have to attend to. So that's a request um and it can be

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ignored but I would ask that we do that. >> Were they not present at the beginning of the meeting? They were they didn't get a chance to speak. >> No, it's not a matter of speaking. It's a matter of them hearing what if anything can be done to address the issue. I think Guilford has some things

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he can say about that that they probably need to hear and we need to hear. We can wait but it would be at least another 45 minutes to an hour I would think and then the meeting will end. So um I would ask the chair to consider um a 15minute

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time discussion um just for their sake so then they can leave. I think what my vision for that discussion and I'm willing to have it now is um what we I think would be most likely to

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be doing as a commission if we were take when we take this up and we don't have established procedures yet which is what part of our problem is is to bring is to start by what information do we need and

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uh not to get the information today but to list the information so that we get it for the next meeting and I'll give the example is u what is the uh

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standards for um placement in of a crosswalk do we have total discretion um to make that recommendation what is involved in doing in installing a new crosswalk talk across West Street

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uh and what is the costs involved those kinds of things uh come come to my mind I don't know if anybody else has other things Michael I think we're done with school discussion you're welcome to stay but on the other hand if you have other

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things to do we won't be sad un happy if you disappear because uh we appreciated you being here >> thank you Michael Um, so does that sound right that we should go ahead and just try and create a uh a

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listing of what information we need to have more thorough discussion. I think other things we need to know is whether uh the chief has access to whether there have

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been track traffic incidents that need to be attended to on that particular roadway or that we need to be aware of. um other things that u we might come up as information that would be helpful to

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have when we get into um a full discussion. Uh councelor Ryan, I go back to you now. >> So another has to do with specifically with a crosswalk. what and Guilford knows this very well and maybe at the

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next meeting he can either present or provide us with a brief memo or maybe there's something that he can share. Um you can't as I understand it you can't create a crosswalk to a place where there isn't some place for people to continue walking i.e a sidewalk or at

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least that's not best practices. So there's a question there whether is it a matter of you just can't do it or it's not best practices. Um, and obviously the the people who spoke um there are larger issues that we're not going to discuss today that involve this, but that would be one uh thing I would like

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to know and maybe Guilford can speak to it now or just give us a sense of what he thinks we would need to know to even begin to address a request like this. >> So, can I can I share quickly? >> Sure. I don't know if Paul needs to do

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anything. >> You should be your your co-host, Guilford. >> Ju just a point of order. Um Andy, are we in fact taking up the uh item number six, Mont Holio Drive crosswalk?

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>> Yes, >> that was the request from >> Thank you, >> Councelor Ryan. that would we and then so we take that up since there were members of the public who are >> here from the beginning of the meeting.

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>> So so this is this is your typical typical request for a crosswalk. Um, so what we would look for when we get these requests is one, is there a sidewalk that they're is there a sidewalk? And yes, there's one on West Street. The the

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residents want to have a crosswalk that crosses res to West Street. So then we look at the alignment. Um, and can we actually place it in there? Um, there's actually a large tree right here on this corner. So you actually can't put a

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crosswalk here. you can put a crosswalk here. So, yes, technically you could do it. So, the things we would want to g gather are we want to gather the speed limits in the area, which we can get those pretty easily. Takes about a week to get those. Um, we have that special

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program. We would ask for accident reports or there been accidents. We would get those from the police department. They take about one to two weeks depending on how busy they they are in their their office. And Gabe can step in when he wants to and tell me it takes longer. Um then we'd want to also

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know where where are we going to um both both mass dot um and the architectural review board say you have to provide an accessible path and so what we would have to do is what is the accessible path here um

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there's no sidewalk on Mount Holio so dumping making a crosswalk and dumping people off in a road is not an accessible path. path. Um, someone who lives in the neighborhood who has a disability could then file a complaint

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and say we didn't make it accessible. Um, there's ways kind of around that. One, we could make it cross over, make a landing, and then make a little sidewalk for a short distance and tie in somewhere up the road and drop them off

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in somebody's driveway, which isn't I know I know we have a member who's uh represents the uh disabilities group, so he might want to chime in, too. But we want to know where we're going to go. So, those are the main things we're looking for. Can you do it? Um speeds in

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the area. speeds in the area would tell us whether we want to put some type of enhanced crosswalk where we put the rap rapid flashing beacons or if we want to put more lighting in. We also look for lighting. Um is there a street light

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already in place or do we have to put a street light in? So these are things when the request comes in, the request should then be sent to staff and then we could pull all this information together and then tell you, yes, this is doable and these are the things that are going to be the problems. Um, this is actually

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a pretty level piece of land, so there's no grade issues. Um, so that that would be what we would pull together when someone sends these things. Would you like me to keep the map up? the moment. >> I this is this is helpful to me. Yeah,

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excuse my interruption. This is helpful to me. Hopefully, I think it's helpful to the public to understand the challenges and the issues. We're not going to resolve them today. I'm not asking us to get into a deep discussion, but I do appreciate Guilford taking a moment and giving us a sense of the

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kinds of things um that he would uh he can produce and would need to produce for us to move on with this. Um I don't know if others have other questions, but um that kind of helps me at least begin to orient ourselves as to what we might

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do next at a future meeting. Um maybe others have other specific questions about what they would like or need. Um but I just wanted uh folks to hear that u and the map certainly helps show us some of the challenges. The larger issues of overall uh that have been

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raised I think would take a much larger discussion but at least for the crosswalk this gives us some idea of what um a crosswalk would entail some of the issues that would need to be addressed and some of the information we would need to request. So thank you Guilfrey for that.

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>> You're welcome. I I'll stop sharing. >> Okay. Um Sam, you're muted. >> Thank you, Andy. And uh thank you, Guilford. Uh your comments are helpful

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to me. Uh were helpful to me. Uh I think this is an example which Andy was referencing at the start of the meeting of uh you know things that may assist in our process. And it seems clear to me that these types of delineations

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such as if you're looking to do a crosswalk, these are the issues that come into play. Uh path uh speed limits, accident report, everything can be some form of a sheet. And this may be information that uh Kim and the

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subcommittee has already spoke of, but um this seems to me to be uh an example of something that uh could be uh used as anformational purpose on the front end as well. Thank you.

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anything else uh people can think of in the way of information that they would like to have for a more extensive discussion at a subsequent meeting in Grecia. Uh is there any uh information that we need

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about the private land owners whose uh land abuts or in some cases the uh uh the the crosswalk may actually like drop them in in that. >> I guess this is a question for Guilford. >> Uh yes. I mean one of the things we want

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to know is is there room or do we have to go on somebody's private property? um here there's room to do it and stay off of private property. So yes, we would tell you we need to either get uh get more right away or some easement to do it on. We would tell you that too.

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But private property, what about um if you felt if you concluded that there needed to be a short extension of sidewalk um on Mount Holio to somebody's driveway, are we talking about private

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property issues there? >> Well, in in this case, we we own the layout. Uh I guess I should share again. Sorry. It's easier to explain. So this red line that I'm showing with

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my hand, cursor hand that that is the property line. So everything in this area here is the towns. So we have we own that property. We can put it there. Whether we want to have a policy where we talk to the homeowner and ask them if they want a

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sidewalk, which they'll now be responsible for shoveling. um that that's something we need to decide among ourselves. Um but right now there is no policy and if we decide if we as a public works department got this request, we would just kind of go ahead.

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Yep, there's a room. We'd make up the plan, we'd go ahead and propose it. Um and then someone wanted to register a complaint about it that we would we would just Yeah, we would take that as a separate step after we decide we want to

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do it. Does that make sense? >> Uh Sam, you have a followup. >> Uh thank you, uh Andy. Uh since we're asking the question of what information might we need? Uh my comment is really a

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process question uh that the subcommittee has already probably been thinking of, but would we or would we not need to know anything related to funding? Um that's something I'm unfamiliar with. There are

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lots of projects here. Many of them are towns. Some are requested by residents uh with uh safety issues and other items in concern. Sometimes residents might say, "Hey, we're going to look and try and get funding." But I, you know, I

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don't know that that's something that we would ask or not. And I'm looking forward as we discuss the different um not just the intake system, but also the prioritization system. But it's something that's in my mind. I wrote

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down, you know, as a part of the early process, what what do we need to do and how do we prioritize which projects to do? So cost came into my mind and, you know, are they always funded by the town? You know, we haven't talked about

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that yet. Thank you. Yeah, I've had some thoughts about that issue all along. The funding is very much of an issue and we can't um ultimately um we need to know

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the answer to it. the way that um we've kind of resolved the issue in setting up the um documents to u get the commission going was a

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recognition that in the end we would be making a recommendation in this case to the town manager which would be subject to his ability to fund it. So that uh we couldn't make a final decision that

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there shall be a sidewalk. Uh but we would be making a recommendation uh that that a sidewalk is uh needed and warranted and u but the the final

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decision would have to be made by the town manager dependent upon the uh >> availability of funding and uh our friends in Northampton

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have a similar u who in their transportation parking commission they aren't making final decisions either they are only making recommendations to the council or the mayor depending upon the nature of um

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what it is that is being asked u whether the final decider is the council is it a council issue or is it a uh administrative issue you. Um, the mayor is probably making the same

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decision that I was just referring to. Do I have money in the budget, which the mayor probably works out with the director of their DPW? Ian, >> um, just as a time check, um, we have

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less than a half hour and I think it's been 15 minutes on this and I want to be sure that we get to the subcommittee's report. Yeah, I uh didn't agree with that. I'm not sure that we can go further. Um but

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I think that it was a useful discussion to have. We have um identified a series of issues. If people on the committee on the commission believe that uh later,

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oh, I wish I had suggested this, then just send me an email and I will forward it along as appropriate um so that we can get it added to the list. But I think that uh we'll be able to take what

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came today as a list and then um schedule a more complete discussion at a future meeting. But I I appreciate the residents raising the issue that it's an important one for the commission to be thinking about and

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I think our initial discussion is a good start on what it need to do as next steps. Is it feasible? What would it cost? uh at least to get a sense of an idea

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um and then we'll be able to handle it and do what we were charged to do. Anything else to be said on the issue today? If not, then I think we can move back to

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the other issue. Um, Jim, I can look and see if I can >> Oh, you know, I think I think I might have it. Uh, >> I have it right here. >> Oh, okay. >> You're talking about this, correct?

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>> Oh, not that. No, the um the portal. Yes, this. Okay, great. And can you just make it bigger? I'm sorry. >> The first part. >> I can. Hold on. Thank you. >> This piece right here.

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>> Yep. Yep. Great. So, um we were we have already um we um went through the um this is the TPC portal that is um Cath Ca Kathy has um started for us on

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opengv.com. I think I opened I forgot exactly what the mechanism is but um the first page which we um oh no this is the first page um and we just wanted to um we have three divisions as you can see

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here um we have um permanent changes to roads and sidewalks. We have um parking changes and long-term um uh long-term road or sidewalk closures. Um and this is just the place where people will come

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to say to see if this is uh if their suggest if their um concerns um fit within the um the charge of the commission and so um we decided to make the following changes um and I think we

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did this as a group previously to um delete for the first thing is to delete this bus stop additions or deletions Um the second thing was to um which we decided um to put splitter islands which

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really are uh should belongs in um trafficcoming measures the trafficcoming measure division of permanent changes to roads and sidewalks. Um uh also to um change um

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truck limits to truck restrictions um because that was unclear to certain um members of the commission and um uh to oh and to right and to put the splitter islands down here. Okay. And

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those were all the changes that we um proposed to make to this particular um uh uh place. And then the next um maybe it's the bottom of this page. Can you go to the right? Did you have something to say first, Sam? Regarding this page.

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>> I did I forgot to lower my hand or I accidentally forgive me. >> Okay. All right. Um and so if we could just Yep. Thank you. Um so and the the an important I you know in order to reduce the number of um concerns that

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are um reported to um this particular form. We thought it very important to also say the things the commission does not take reports about. And so for issues um listed below, please you the use the C click fix which I believe

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should be c all capitalized because that's what it is on the cclick fix button um uh functions on the town website. So you know potholes is bolded and um because we do not our commission is not involved

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with potholes but other things like repairs all go to see click fix. Um, and I thought it important to also say for speed enforcement concerns, please email the the police department just to bold

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that. Those are all the changes. Um, and and on the next page, we will see and unless there are questions, of course. Yes. >> Sorry, quick question. The street light on the first thing that's about installing a new street light. >> Correct. Correct. That's a good point.

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So, should we um Yep. and George, you're muted. >> Thank you. Um, second page, the the right hand side, whatever want to call it. >> Yeah. >> Um, the things we don't do, I would strongly urge us to have road and

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sidewalk maintenance. I would insert and sidewalk. >> Road and sidewalk. That's a great point. >> Yeah, I would suggest that. >> I agree. Yep. >> I don't know what the rest of the commission thinks, but I think that would be a good idea. And the second thought um is something that we

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discussed uh and I one of the things that we I think are going to hear from we already have heard already are issues of bike and pedestrian safety. And um I don't know how to get this in

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here. Maybe the feeling is we just should leave it alone. But I would like to feel that if people looked at this first page that maybe is a separate item. It's very broad in general unlike the specificity that we have here which I like. But I think there should be

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something that says if you have an issue of bike and pedestrian safety you should talk to us. Right now it's it's and I think it's right that we are specific. I think that's a good idea. But that was the other concern I had looking this over. Does this sort of uh lead people

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to think well you know what I'm thinking about really doesn't have I don't know what a specific solution is but when I bike on this stretch of road or when I walk on this in this part of town I feel really unsafe and I would like the commission to be aware of it and maybe

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think about what they could do. So that was the other only other thought I had. Should there be a place on this first page like it's just a separate bulleted item or should we just leave it alone? Well, George, to be fair, this was what I was trying to get at.

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>> It was picking up, I think, Kim on what you were saying >> because I think it should say we should not have these specific things. >> Well, that's a that's a different argument. >> We should have our concerns like you know, so so you know, I think for now, I

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mean, we just need to get this moving. I agree you completely, George. Um, but >> you don't think adding that bolded line, you know, we have three of them which fit the three categories. >> So, you want to say, >> well, I'm just Yeah, I'm wondering if we

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just had it as a separate bolded item. >> Would that do people feel like that's needed or maybe we should just let it go? >> Yeah, I I don't know. >> That's why I mentioned it for the commission and Chief Ting has his hand up. >> Yes.

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I just wanted to mention where it indicates for speed enforcement concerns. I would probably just as a recommendation add uh traffic complaints as well. Uh a lot of the concerns aren't just speed. You know that they're going to complain about stop signs and red lights and and other traffic concerns of

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that nature. >> So just maybe just traffic concerns, but you think speed should go in there? >> Uh I would recommend speed simply because um >> yeah, that's amazing. A lot of people differentiate the two. Um, so that kind of encompasses it all.

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>> Okay. Thank you. We'll change we'll change that. I think we can all agree on that. >> Thank you, >> Paul. A very minor thing. So, I think on the last line that we're looking at be for changes to a bus route or changes to bus

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routes, you have to do one or the other. And also, I don't know if we go to I think it goes to PVTA, not to UMass Transit. They're they're a contractor to PVTA. So, I think I can get you the address and clarify that for folks. >> Okay. Sam.

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Oh, you're muted, Sam. Thank you, Kim. Um, in looking at the intake form, I wrote down under the street amenities stop sign requests and I see that missing stop sign exists

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under items that are not uh we don't take care of. But is there a distinct I think there is a distinction because we heard from the group uh regarding uh Mount Holio Drive and that area on

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west on uh West Street. They were asking not just about crosswalks but about stop signs. So the question is, is somebody who wants to have a sign added somewhere, is that something we don't deal with, or is it something we do deal

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with? And maybe that's a safety issue under the charge of the police department or the DPW. I'm uncertain. I'm raising it because it jumped into my head when I looked at the intake forms.

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I think um it would come to this committee the stop sign piece but um there are a lot of rules of issues around stop sign. So sorry Chief Ting, did you want to say something? >> Yeah, I just wanted to chime in in terms

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of you know any requests for new type of traffic um either patterns or traffic uh signage. You know, really that's that has to involve the uh this really should be for Guilford. That should involve the town's engineer in terms of uh that type

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of mitigation. >> Yeah. >> I think when we were I think when we were talking as a subcommittee, we just kind of lumped it into roadway and sidewalk improvements. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Um

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>> so in interest of time I I will take all of your suggestions and I think we all agree on the issues that were currently raised. I didn't hear any objections. So um these changes will be made to the um to

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the form when we have Kathy again to help us. Um can we go to the next page? So, um, this is pretty, um, straightforward. Um, and this has not been changed at all. It's just the intake information in order to, um, be

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able to know who it is and where we how we would contact them in the future. And, um, as you can see, the next part is, um, adding the address or the intersection or the, you know, street um, whatever it

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would be, that would go here. Um and that all makes sense to me and we can go to the next part. Guilford, please. Um yep. And then here is where um we have

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um the particular suggestion we said there there were three before, you know, permanent changes to the road, parking changes, long-term road or sidewalk closure. So they have to choose one of those and they know which list they're on. And then um Kathy selected parking

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changes and she um you you have a chance to kind of give your description which is also very useful for the type of change that you're interested in and you can just write that here. And then on the next page

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um is um any other information that you might have but I don't I'm not sure why we need that but maybe someone might have some additional information. And then the last part um is uh and to me a really important

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part which is including any other files that you wanted. And you know something that might someone might include would be um a picture of a particular intersection or someone walking with a stroller on the side of the road,

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whatever it might be. Um, and a really important thing that um, Guilford brought up the last time is that we should really state here that um, to please upload a JPEG or PDF because the

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H EIC which are what your iPhone pictures come, you know, the files that your iPhone pictures in are not acceptable within the current system. So, I think that's actually a really important piece of information so that

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people um so that we can see the photos that people upload. Um and so the next Oh, sorry. Sam and George both have their hands up. >> Thank you, Kim. Just a quick observation. Is there a field space

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limitation? Have we considered how much we want them to be able to write or not? That is to say, if they write and get to the end of that little blue square, does it end or do they proceed further? >> I have no idea on that. And that would be Kathy's realm. I can ask about that.

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Um, >> is there would we want any >> partic if they can add additional PDFs, maybe they can put it all there as long as there's an alternate, but it's just something for thought, right? A lot.

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>> Yep. Uh, okay. And George, >> if we could scroll back just one uh slide to the uh intake. I'm sorry. I guess it's another slide back where we have the the categories. So we have

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good. No, that we just Sorry. No, no, the the three >> just two slides >> right there. That's no next slide. No, >> the next one. >> Sorry. Three and four. So, right now you come to this page, you

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have permanent change to road or sidewalk, parking changes, long-term or sidewalk closures. Um, what if we had a fourth item which said bike and pedestrian safety and on the first Yeah, go ahead.

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>> What about other concerns? >> You could also do that. Um, again, I just want to hear from the other commissioners whether they share my thought or whether we should I agree with Kim that we need to get this out and so I don't want us to delay it

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further. Um, but it does seem like that's something that a lot of people expect this body to address. Um, and if they come to the form right now, unless they already have in their minds a solution,

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I think they they may still go ahead and hopefully they will just choose a category and and write in their concern. But I'm wondering if it makes sense to create a category for that without defining it beyond just bike and pedestrian

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safety and let them tell us what they are concerned about and add it then to that very first page as a separate bullet item. That's what I'm suggesting. >> I support that idea. >> I like it too. >> I wonder what the others think. It just

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um I don't think it would be take that much time for it to change that. >> No. >> But it's the question is is inviting false expectations. Is it anyway that's what I'd like to do. >> I I support it also. I think it it does

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offer an option that takes away from uh car centric modalities. Um it not not that these ones necessarily are but but yeah I support it. >> The the worst case is that we get requests that we can't handle. The best

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case is that we get individuals who have genuine concerns who might not otherwise have provided information. My understanding is we can adapt as we go forward anyway. So I would be in favor of >> uh that suggestion.

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Yeah, Greca, do you have another qu I >> I just wanted to note that one thing that we had discussed was that um maybe the subcommittee could set a time or you know after we receive a certain number of requests to revisit this to sort of analyze um what's been going well and uh

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what seems to be confusing or whether we're getting things that are irrelevant and then we can revisit this. So, um, just sort of yet to emphasize that this is sort of the fir as long as we think this is generally acceptable, we can always make it better later on. >> George,

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>> quickly just following up on on Sam's comment, I actually don't think it's a bad thing if we get things that we can't deal with because then what we can do, which be very helpful to residents, is say, "We don't deal with this, but here's where you can go. Here's how you

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can address it." So, um, I think a large part of what I see this body doing is providing a a way for residents to interact with the town around a whole host of issues they have a lot of concerns about and that our job is to just try and facilitate that to the

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degree that we can. So, even when we get requests that we don't deal with in the communication back and Kim will be talking about that hopefully soon this evening, but who's going to do that? But in the communication back, um, we say, "Look, we don't deal with this, but here's where you can go. Here's what you

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can do." >> Andy, >> yeah. Did you can Did you Did you go through the list uh that whole compilation of requests that we've received already and see if uh everything fits into one of these

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categories? >> I did not. I can look at it. Uh I have not gone methodically through that for for most of them. I think the answer is um

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yes, but I just wanted to make sure I gave you the um people thinking about a crosswalk being put in over West Street. Would they automatically assume that a

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permanent change to a road or sidewalk is what installation of a crosswalk is? Or people who are thinking about it would that preclude them from understanding what we're talking what we're looking >> crosswalk placement is like the first

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thing that will come up >> and it's under that category. permanent changes. Permanent changes to I mean we can't help it if they don't read it carefully >> but hopefully they will they will and if they don't we can still sort it out as long as they send us something. As long as they communicate with us we can move

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on it. We just don't want to frighten people away. We don't want them to look at it and go oh you know this is useless and they just leave. Um I hope that won't happen but that's my fear. >> Yep. >> Okay.

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So, um um given the changes that we spoke about, um what do you all feel? I mean, I don't know if we have to take a vote or um but I definitely will ask for all the changes that we just discussed, including the um

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an another item on here that might um on this first page that will include um bike and pedestrian safety concerns. Um and um also have a drop-own menu for that on the following on the um you know

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where that list that comes up when people finally fill in the form. Um do we feel comfortable with this? because I will ask um Kathy to make these changes and then we can according

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to her um she thought it you know it just it won't take very long once those changes are made for it the um it to go live. So, um, Ian, >> um, I'd make a motion to, uh, approve

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this with the changes that we have discussed. >> A motion that's been made. Is there second to the motion? >> I would second, Ryan. >> Motion has been made and seconded to U.

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So that the transportation parking commission adopts this recommendation as modified in today's discussion. Any further discussion on the motion, >> Sam? >> Not on the motion.

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>> Uh then I'm going to go ahead and uh just take a vote on the motion that's on the table. and uh go through the list of the entire minute. Jeff Bag is absent.

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Greca, >> we can't hear you, Greca. >> I'm here. >> Is that a yes? >> I'm sorry. I I disconnected briefly, so I actually I didn't hear the uh the question. >> It's a motion. Are we voting accept the changes that we um >> Oh, yes, absolutely.

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>> Okay. Okay. So, it's a yes. Uh Sam, >> yes. >> Guilford, >> yes. >> Ian, >> yes. >> George, >> hi. >> Uh, Chief Ting, >> yes. >> Uh, Jim,

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>> yep. Yes. >> Yes. >> Great. So, uh I think we're unanimous except for uh Jeff who's bag is absent at today's

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meeting. So, are you Sam? >> You have your hand up, Sam. >> Yeah, I had a question when uh uh Kim had referenced that, you know, this is what we could use when it when we decide

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to go live with it. uh segueed into the question of when we may or may not want to go live with it. I wanted to raise the comment or concern is that you know we're going to get a lot of information. The question is how are we going to filter and prioritize an example would

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be we get requests for crosswalks on Dennis Drive. We get requests for crosswalks on West Street. We get requests for all these other things. And the question that I have for the chair and perhaps for the committee is, you know, might we have that discussion of

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how we would adjudicate to deal with these? We may get a ton coming in and how are we as a committee going to decide which ones to put on agendas and things. I realize agendas are set by the chair. Uh but you know, I could easily

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envision as we saw lots of requests coming in. We've already got a lot that have come in through emails not using the form. So, it's a general question for that I think would be worth talking about. Thank you.

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>> Yep. And that is the next well one of the next agenda items um which we really I don't think we're going to have time to get to. What do you think, Andy? Yeah, I don't uh visited six and we've been meeting for two hours and we said

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we would try and limit it. So unless there's uh I I would be hesitant to go into a long discussion which I think it might be do you >> okay you know what I would >> an additional meeting

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>> of your subcommittee >> yes our next meeting we decided on I for I don't have my um I don't have my notes >> of July 2nd which is a Thursday >> July 2nd

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And I think it's like 5:30 to 7:30 or around that time. >> Yeah. No, I think that it is important. Um I was I stepped out of my uh roles

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in some ways by picking one in order to have the discussion that we had about Mount Holio Tribe in the crosswalk. And as I said, I did it for a couple of reasons. One was the number of people who were on the petition. Um, second of

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all, it's fair it was fairly straightforward. Third is that it would be something we could learn from as far as other parts of our process how we might proceed with it. But I think that it is um going to be important to start sorting uh because

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we do have large number of requests and uh not all of them will you know meet the same obvious things. The other thing that we have to recognize is that um as we did at the last meeting, requests

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that come from um Paul Guilford or the council president um are also need to be in a special category for this committee's consideration because they're coming in not through

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the portal but they're coming in through other routes and there were very time-specific reasons that Guilford Paul and u councelor Hani needed to get those

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other issues um before the commission and uh that's why we took them up last time and I don't think we're going to be wanting or uh to to alter that part of our process.

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So, councelor Ryan, >> yeah, >> it would be helpful um at some point, maybe even before we meet again, that you um or the vice chair or some combination thereof,

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um produce a list of all requests received to date as best you can. I have something on my computer right now. I have, I think, eight requests. Um, but I'm sure it's not comprehensive, but hopefully it's close. Um, broken down by

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the name of the applicant, the date received, their address, uh, their email, um, and then the area or address of concern, and the type of request, and then some notes. Um, it's on an Excel spreadsheet. Um, I'm happy to work um

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with you all if that would help you or or but I would think that the commissioners would like to see at some point a list of everything we have as far as we can do that. And I like Kim's idea of trying to put it in some kind of numerical order. Um, maybe by date

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received would probably be the simplest way to do it. Um, and that could be something we would be talking about at our next official meeting is looking at that list. Um, and talking about what we see and what we think individually and

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collectively we would like to start focusing on. So that's just a request that I'm willing to help if that's useful. I'm sure the subcommittee can also assist in that, but I think ultimately it's something that the chair and the vice chair will have to do since, as you said, a lot of this is

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coming by email. Uh we don't have an official TPC uh email address yet. Um my hope is that something could be created quickly. Um, and I don't know if we have time to talk about that tonight, but the thought was that if we did have an address for the the commission as an

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email address, it could be designed in such a way that all commissioners would see those emails. Um, somewhat like the way the council, anyone who sends a message to the council uh, and the council address, all counselors see that email. And that's a way for you all to

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be aware of what the traffic is looking like. Um, so that was a second thought that we had last time was can we create at least create that email address for for the transportation parking commission and can we get a list of all requests to date?

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I think we can u work on your spreadsheet which you sent to me and the the compilation just so that everybody's aware um I have received emails from various sources including members of

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this commission uh that they've received from pe from people about requests that are really TPC requests and I have created a folder on my computer where all of those are converted to PDF and in

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one particular folder. At this point, only Kim and I have those items. Um, but you know whether all I I I think one question is whether they should just be

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sent to all members of the commission so that all of you see what we've got. may be received and I'd be uh certainly happy to do that but uh I didn't want to make that decision alone.

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>> Did you have a question? >> No, just a statement that the the intake form was supposed to be the way around everyone getting an email. >> Yes, I agree. >> People were supposed to be funnel towards the intake form. You said the intake form. I know that we don't have

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the form up and we have people who are putting their concerns forward now, but in the in the future, the intake form was supposed to be it and then we were supposed to we working on what which wickets they go in and what information we want before we put give it to the

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chair to put it on the agenda. So that's that was that's the ultimate goal we're working for. Um, so if we want to do something in between that's fine, but I just want to remind everybody that's was the reason for doing the intake form and everything. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. Get to the others who their hands up in just a second. I think that that's right. We were going to um not necessarily request that people

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who've already submitted emails go to go to the intake form and pretend that they never uh contacted us. But going forward that it was the anticipation. And when we get emails

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once it's up, then the standard response should just come probably from staff immediately saying, uh, thank you for your email. Um, this is the process and ask them to take that step. Uh Paul,

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>> yeah, just want to reaffir super support that too because a lot of times people are putting in the they're in the wrong place to submit a claim a request and they need to be guided to the right location because they will put in a request for a pothole or something like that. And I think the what we've also

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experienced with when things go to the broader group is that you know seven or eight people get it and then you know people start to wonder did anybody respond to this and then sudden you've got random people sort of responding like I hear you you know because they're worried that people didn't get a response and if whoever's designated was

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responding you know I think it's much better to have it be handled by staff and then staff provide the list or whatever it is that the what this committee needs for consideration. ation, but it is the the idea is to provide a single point of access for the

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public um and a single point of response from the town. >> Sam, >> I think Kim had her hand up prior to me. >> Well, yeah. So, you know, we if we were able to have gotten to our agenda items,

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we would have gone through some of these issues. But one thing I really feel strongly about is that everyone should have their request be put on the portal and any requests we get we've gotten in the last two weeks, we could respond to them and say the portal will be up soon

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and you can make your request there because it's really the only fair way of doing it. Something that everyone has access to. I feel very strongly about that. >> Are you are you saying that somebody who >> already Yes.

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>> Yeah. months ago. >> Well, yes, because there was no form to do that. I think that everyone just does it and that way it's all in one place. They all, you know, they all they could say I I did send this, you know, on 10

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425 to my counselor, but I'm also adding this request here. You know >> this time give the example of the one that we dis discussed briefly

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the Mount Holio Drive and the amount of work that was done by the residents and their principal spokesperson u and to pre to make them go back and then do

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something else after they did that much work. I I was feeling a little uncertain about that. >> The form is pretty easy, right? They just have to upload their images and they can say they made that request on whatever date, you know, I mean, or we

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do it. We do that for them. >> Maybe we should do it. Maybe we should just take the list of what we have and then with Katherine and some other people enter them into the into the portal and then they'll be there and then you can

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I can uh talk to Kathy about it to see if from her experience working with a similar format in her position when she was working in inspections in that

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section of town hall where she has the experience that she's using to help get this set up. See what she have to say about it. Uh because she may be able to do it fairly quickly. She would probably be

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the right one to just take the emails we received. Let's keep moving so we can conclude the meeting. Sam. Uh, thank you, Andy. Um, I' I'd like to agree with George's uh uh recent comment

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that it's helpful for all committee members to be aware of what's been uh requested just so that there's everybody has an idea of what's coming in. Some of these came to town council, we forwarded them to Andy. Some come in by a calls.

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And I think that's kind of also what Kim is getting at by putting everything in the uh system from a processing standpoint. I have less concern personally about items that have come in to date because I think they're on the queue and Andy and Kim have seen them

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and they could be added to a list. But I understand the rationale for that. Uh separate from that, my thoughts were that the prioritization of requests that come in will be significant because again I could envision quite a lot. You

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know, maybe we had an initial flurry when people said, "Oh, there's a new commission. Hey, Flat Hills Road, Station Road, West Street, you know, but there might be a lot that we get once this gets more known and once this uh portal goes live." And then the question

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will be of course which I'm sure you're considering already and and thank you to the subcommittee for the work they've done so far and already on some of the prioritization I realize um you know there'll need to be some form of sorting

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or acknowledgement and I could easily envision different prioritizations of you know urgent less urgent timesensitive and these are things that I believe the subcommittee is already uh working on and didn't have an opportunity to present today. Uh I'm

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looking forward to it. But uh my primary comment is I agree with George that we should see what's come in and that once there is a portal that at some point in time regularly commission members see

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what's arrived at the committee even though the prioritization may be a different process. Thank you. So, um Jim, do you want to say anything more about prioritization? Are you going to tell >> um Yeah, there's just one thing that I wanted to say is that um the um

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Northampton I I highly highly recommend that everyone goes to Northampton. there's a TPC um there as well. Um and click on the TPC and click on their most

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recent um agenda and um take a look at items four and five on on their um things to be discussed because it's just exactly what we're talking about. they have, you know, um a plan for things

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that they're voting on which has like street plans and closures and I just extensive amount of information and then um also projects that they're discussing at their current meeting. It's just really useful to kind of see how they're doing it and they also have a list

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that's public facing which I find really really useful um as well which you know will be really helpful I think to people who are looking to see hey where's my concern what is what is it looking at looking where is it in the queue and um

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what are the concerns with it so I highly recommend everyone do that for the next meeting so we can um really kind of dig into this process a little more >> George u and then let's finish this meeting out by talking about next

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meeting and go George >> so quickly yes what I'm hearing is that if we do create >> a email for uh the commission that it should go to Kathy >> and perhaps to the chair maybe the vice

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chair but that's it um because the people will have just general communication questions things they just they don't necessarily want to go to the portal whatever so there should I think there should be something and it sounds like what people would prefer is that it be limited to the

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staff leazison and perhaps the chair second thing quickly I hope at the next meeting and in all future meetings that we begin with a brief review of the current queue a brief review of what we've just received what's still in

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process and that we can weigh in for a few minutes before we start the actual uh specific requests weigh in on our thoughts about what we think uh should be prioritized. I know we're still trying to figure out what how to prioritize things, but however that plays out, I hope we will begin each

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meeting with a kind of a a view of where what's come in this month and what's in the overall queue uh for us to talk about for a few minutes. Oh, Andy, you're muted. >> Andy, you're muted. Sorry, I was asking if we're agreement

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that we could uh uh move to the last item which is future meetings so that we can adjourn and u the future meeting is a very simple question I think for us and do we want to have future meeting

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the next meeting be by zoom or in person and what my suggestion is regardless of the answer to that question once we've done it that uh we again ask Kathy to send out a doodle poll of availability

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for um a July meeting and uh then we'll schedule it. it will let her choose the date based upon the responses that she receives. And uh if that's okay, then I just need to know

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whether we're looking to do a Zoom meeting or an inperson. Anybody have strong statement on it? I I would suggest that we continue with Zoom meetings uh because it's easier for everybody to just do it um wherever they are at the

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time and uh it saves time just getting to a location. It was good to have first meetings so we got to know each other as individuals and but I don't know that we can continue but what do you rest you think

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Sam? >> Uh my issue is less whether I were to meet in person or via Zoom but rather the public's ability to watch our meetings and I think it's important that we provide uh the public the capacity to see the meetings via Zoom. Uh so you

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know I don't think we can do it like we do in the council where we meet in person and also have zoom. If we could that would be fine. Uh but I think a zoom uh you know that would be preferred almost. Uh but I think a zoom capacity is necessary for the public. Uh the

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other comment in that regard is I think it would be helpful if meeting materials could be provided with sufficient time to enable community members even to see them. Uh usually it's like 48 hours or so. Um but you know, we're moving from

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just our own group into a town uh commission where we're we're looked at. Maybe I'm you know, I don't know if everyone else thinks the same as I do, but those are my thoughts. >> Well, I need you to end this meeting as

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soon as possible because this account is there's another committee waiting to use this account to start their meeting. So I'd appreciate if you could just adjurnn as soon as possible. >> Motion to adjurnn. This is Ian. >> Second. >> Okay. This motion that's been made and seconded to adjourn. Next meeting will

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be by Zoom. Um going through since we are required to take a vote on all motions by roll call if it's a Zoom uh meeting again. Jeff Bag is absent. Greca,

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>> I agree. >> You're Yes. Uh Sam, >> hi. >> Uh Guilford, >> yes. >> Ian, >> yes. >> Um George, >> hi.

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>> Uh Gabe >> Chief B. >> Yes. >> Uh Tim, >> yes. Uh let me Yes.