##VIDEO ID:Ft6_so-BdUQ## I only see two of you but I see three cameras on yeah Stefan yeah Chris Chris is on and Stefan is on and yep I see them and see them we have a quorum and Marcus said he's not available and I hadn't heard from Joe and um and I've been asking to about filling our vacancies but uh that's not going anywhere quickly okay um all right let me just find the little note to okay the language which I think it's like close enough so the language is just says you know pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by the chapter 22 of the acts of 22 this meeting is being conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or phone and no inperson attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time all right well thank you that's so let's do a roll call just so Amber will have that um so I'm here Tracy kimbley yep Christine lindst okay all right and Stan's here and uh Marcus and Joe are not here Amber and of course is here okay so so the first item I don't see anybody like in our waiting room nope um our first item of business I put on the agenda was just an update on the combined meeting with Tso and the disability access advisory committee about the proposed redesign of Southeast Street um I was told by Andy Steinberg today that that meeting is going to be scheduled for December 12th at 5:00 p.m. um from 5 P.M to 6:30 p.m. and it sounds like it's going to be a hybrid meeting where it will take place in the town room so that people can see maps but that there will also be remote attendance Gil does that sound right to you I can't we can't hear you repeat the time so it a December 12th at 5:00 pm that's the first I've heard of it so okay I know that they were looking at a few different times there had been that survey I think one issue is that if you want to have the hybrid meeting the place to do that is in the town room um I was also told that that meeting does have a hard stop at 6:30 p.m. because there is a different meeting scheduled at 6:30 p.m. given that it's Town room with the hybrid capabilities I and so that with that in mind this will not be a general Forum or there can be lots of comments and other questions that they will be because the consultant will be there they will primarily be looking you know at the questions that were submitted earlier and that TSO has been compiling but it sounds like there may be opportunity later on in the process for there to be a forum or other meeting where um there can be like a much long longer discussion and many more questions they're just looking for our input correct ours in the deck yeah I mean so I did submit some questions um you know if we had anything specific we know that we want to bring up then um we can do that as a group um I was just asking some clar clarification questions um I mean does anybody have any I mean I was just asking logistically like how it works and and some of the models about I mean we've talked about it before like you had raised Kim the question about like will the traffic back up you know at these smaller roundabouts that are in the middle if everybody's in them like how does that flow actually work and so I would like to invite one or two other people who aren't on the committee would that be okay or would that be run by Andy how would that work I mean I believe it's a meeting that's open to the public it yeah I mean what I'm saying is I just don't think that the format is going to allow for a lot of forum type questions like you know just and especially with the consultant being there as well but I do hope that members of the public will you know if they don't come to watch it in person that they also can like you know be on Zoom or also check out the recording later and to get information out about the project to The Wider Community I'm sure in particular that for parents would be very interested so well it's actually it's Fort River and wildwood right and when it opens it's everybody exactly and is the plan still it sounds like the plan is still for the opening to be in the fall of 2026 um I'm not sure oh right because there's been the yeah and I mean you wouldn't I mean I guess practically speaking you wouldn't change schools like in the middle of the school year right it would either have to be 2026 or 2027 yeah I mean they may not be done is the issue is CH well that's what I was wondering right but you wouldn't typically say okay everybody go home you know on December break okay now we have a new I mean I don't know it seems disruptive to change in the middle of school year especially when you're consolidating the schools but is um what's the plan the interim plan for the kids who are at that school they stay there it doesn't it doesn't get demolished before the new school gets made the yeah the goal is to start building the new school build the new school then move everybody into the new school and then demolish the old school got it I mean it is nice that that site has that room so yeah okay great so it sounds like um I mean I don't know who from tac is available to come to that meeting I know I'm available and Kim are you available meeting yeah I'll make it okay great so at least we'll have three of us um I know that the meeting right after this forum is the Char of review commission which Marcus is a member of so maybe he can be there as well if he wants to spend many hours you mean right after that meeting right yeah yeah on the 12th um cool anyway well he he should have some good insight to then yeah absolutely okay and um all right so then the next thing on the agenda were safe root to school updates um and I just wanted to share about that the school zones for the middle school and the high school were approved by the Town Council on Monday Guilford were you on vacation were you away then or were you at the meeting no I was gone oh okay um so of course so TSO took action on it you you know based on the maps and the memos that Jason skills prepared which laid it out pretty well and TSO um approved it Anonymous unanimously at um the TSO meeting which I guess was last week and then it was approved by the council as well um so I did include just as a reference just like where they're proposed where the beginning and the end of the school zones is proposed to be um and I know that the original the council sponsors you brought brought this forward which were uh Devin gothier uh Kathy Shane and um Lyn grimer that they had proposed certain times but that wasn't included in what was adopted so that's still left up to the schools and the town's discretion it sound the TSO report talked about hell Guilford and um the town manager typically will make those decisions with input from the schools does that sound right Guilford is it is it easy yes that's what they said is it easy to like like you know because sometimes there are like half days or or late I mean it changes is it easy to like change those zones or do you do that or is that not done or whatever technically if you have the people to do it you could is it either try to program it for the whole year if you know what the whole schedule is or you could um do it every day or every other day W so like for example like I had raised the question Guilford about um you know the calendar comes out usually by early spring for the next year and for example that it's part of the teachers contract that there is a half day at least like one half day each month for professional development M and um and so and so those are all it's all predetermined like when those times are so is that something where it can be I know that you can control them like DPW has access to them all remotely it's that's something that can be programmed out in them that you'll have it um you'll have them activated for early dismissal it just requires having an ability to do it and then it change it if we need to change it supposedly it's easy to do but it's much easier just put one time and a start dat and a stop date of course yeah oh so do you do you do do a stop date and a start so you don't have them on during the summer the ones we have now I have the abil we have the ability to actually control them okay yeah so huh yeah you can turn them off at the um you can turn them off at the end of the school year you can turn on during school year so are they on during like school vacation weeks uh actually yes because we don't program in the school vacation weeks okay all right I can do an update otherwise on other aspects of safe Roots if it yeah I I did just have a question too just about I know that um just with the elementary school times like I know that the I mean it sounds like the middle school and the high school school zone signs won't be put in until the spring is that does that sound right Guilford yeah we've heard nothing back from the school about what they want for times and and is there and there's funding to put in the signs and everything in the spring um I assume it's going to come out of the money that was appropriated in that okay school thing School thing um yeah there was a capital item for some of this stuff so so one thing with like if you look at them if you look at the element I mean I know that this is like up to the schools to decide um and you and the town manager but when I looked at the Times about when the lights are flashing compared to when students particularly if you have students walking or biking to school like when they would actually be coming towards school and so on like it seemed like they could be adjus Ed slightly to better accommodate and support you know safe roots to school and walking and biking like for example um the um like on the regular school days right that the elementary school that they start school at 8:10 in the morning and that the school zones don't start flashing until 8 so that's fine I think for people who are taking the students who are taking the buses because a lot of the buses the schedules are set up to arrive right around 8:10 but again if students are walking or biking or you know some school students like to come on to the playground beforehand or whatever it does mean that the lights are not flashing until they've already arrived at school and and that was my experience when I participated in the safe reach to school like the eyew walk day is that most of the iwok groups were arriving at the school like before the they were flashing so that was a little unfortunate and I guess if people were going to bike and walk regularly it would be nice if they were flashing when they were doing so so just my suggestion yeah and so and I think too just after school right I think like my experience when I was an elementary school parent is for Walkers and bikers and even other families that if the weather is good that families are staying after school and they're playing on the playground and things like that and so um I think like right now the time is set to the beacon the beacon stopped flashing like 20 minutes after dismissal but if it was a day when they're are going to be a lot of families and students still on the campus it might be nice to extend it at least like half an hour an hour or something so I mean I just rais that for consideration but thank you and uh and we do have suggestions I mean if if um if anybody's interested in input like we could also make suggestions about either Tac or myself could make suggestions about the middle school and high school times but you you also have to pay attention to when they're Le allowed to be on campus I understand that yeah but like for example I mean there's the program on well a lot of the schools they do have a sign and they says like you can't get into the building until a certain hour but they do serve for students they do serve like they all serve breakfast yeah so there is an incentive for students to come earlier than the official start time of the day yeah and I know for example on like a lot of the bus routs and I know my the bus rout that my kid takes in particular like they're always arriving at school like right at the start of the school day or even like after the start of the school day the buses are sometimes late because of the elementary runs and that that means he never gets like the school breakfast but a lot of families and students are incentivized to come early enough to get breakfast before the first period starts yeah that's very true so yeah but yeah I agree I mean the schools do not want people in the building until a certain time so so okay and then Chris do you want to give us some updates about saer school to not much um Tori and I met with um Dr Z's staff um again earlier this week um I don't see Dr Z's office I I don't see interest in being a leader on um this stuff I think they just continue to describe themselves as reacting to um you know their situation so um which is a little unfortunate I've been asking for them to be willing to spearhead the Bike Rodeo and um yeah I don't think that that's going to happen so I um do feel like I need to maybe have one more conversation with a couple other um entities in town Municipal um you know authorities in town to see if anybody would be willing to kind of chair a group that would do a districtwide Bike Rodeo in May um it's not that they're opposed to it it's I just I think they're I think Dr Z and the staff continue to just be overwhelmed by the amount of work that um needs to happen just to kind of move the whole District forward so um that is um you know sad but true and you know is what it is the other thing that I might do is just ask um one of the schools to have a Bike Rodeo and just open it up to other schools uh where we know we have the PE teachers at the elementary schools in particular who are pretty motivated around this stuff and you know um Tori was at Crocker Farm last week teaching bike and um pedestrian safety oh cool byeone take good notes um so I anyway that's another possibility but um I'll just keep everybody posted that's definitely something the parents would like um the Dr she's office definitely wanted to see the Fort River traffic pattern um they hadn't seen that yet so uh I sent that along um Guilford I don't know if it makes sense for you or who would who would be the per the the person extending the invite to the superintendent's office to come to the December 12th meeting not me but I'll ask would you yeah um or if you don't mind just shooting a note who I don't know who you're following up with I assume it's rert um you know maybe a couple other people about the timing of the the flashing beacons but um I think it would definitely be important to have somebody in the room from the school personally I don't think the schools give her but U sorry um I don't think they care yeah no you might you might be right but you know invit they're just gonna demand they're just gonna demand the town take care of it is what they've pretty much said and their designers have said that the school staff has said that it's up to the town to take care of everything outside the property and they don't really and so Dr Z if she actually does say she wants to it would be very it would be amazing because everyone else has said they don't care noted the town can take care of it the town can spend their money to do it but I Al think it seems like I mean the people that Chris talked to right recently this week that they were suggesting that they would want more information so I still think it's worth extending the invitation and sharing what information is available I mean I do agree that the schools have a lot going on in the buildings and on the building property and that they're not in charge of the roads outside of the school but you know some of the traffic pattern is impacting like the driveways to and from and so on so I all yeah I mean all all they can do is get an invitation and decide to ignore it if they want to but at least the invitation has been extended um let's see Tori also spoke to um there's some interest in the possibility of a health and wellness policy um going through Schoolboard that would um make sure that pedestrian and bike safety is always being taught in perpetuity at in the Elementary School PE classes that's cool so um you know I think Tori may or may not find some traction there um in terms of what we can engage the superintendent's office on but um that's out there as a possibility uh and then finally um you know Crocker Farm uh applied for a little bike Grant bike rack Grant from safe roots to school recently which is exciting and um you know we're at where we're at um since you're here Guilford I did want to ask if you uh guys have applied to Safe roots for an infrastructure Grant or how you're thinking about that where where you're at in the process with the possibility of an infrastructure Grant I imagine they will apply for one but there's nothing to apply for now right um yeah so that's where things stand at the moment and um you know my top priority is just going to try to make a bike Rodeo happen amongst a set of us in a very collegial way um if that doesn't happen then my plan B is to find a school to host it and then just try to get everybody else to Glam On I hope to have that figured out by the end of the year so Chris I was wondering so I know that and maybe you've already talked to them but didn't the police department used to host Spike radios is that something that they're still interested in like Bill laramy or whoever it was yeah I talked to bill um a while ago I can definitely give him another call I don't think that they um they felt uh sort of spurned and alienated by the schools um so I think they you know he sort of termed it that they did and worked well on the bike rodeos for a while and then it just became harder and harder and more and more fell on the APD to make it happen and finally the APD just sort of stopped so um well or you know I think about too how there's now these Community programs that are done like with like the one in the morning at the schools right it's done with the police department and with the wreck ammer wreck and I don't know it seem like having those kind of like Community Partners I know that some of it is grant-based but yeah ex they might they might be interested or something but yeah I mean I I definitely have asked Point Blank I asked um Gabe Ting before he actually got the tap you know when he was I asked him so um I can I can go back and ask again um and then I can ask um Guilford moring right from the BPW again as well uh so there was that one that used to be a Crocker I don't know how many years it was but it was done as part of with the after school program and they did it with morsale and um more sale provided bikes and things that's great yeah I mean there's actually a lot of um Wildwood pjo is really interested in um in participating uh so you know I mean I don't know if what if morill would be interested again in doing it too it seemed like a really great program but I don't um I think that that might be weird to ask an entity to lead it you know from outside of ammer but the bikee club at Cracker farm right yeah that's true run by Judah Hughes so um and Peter moris so a parent and a fifth grade teacher so I think that's my plan B is um they would totally do it in a in a heartbeat um and I know that they've brought it up separately with Tori right so I think it's just um you know it would be a shame if we can't pull something together for the district because there seems to be interest dispersed throughout all the schools but um I'm more than happy to work with a school that's excited to lead and and make it happen so we'll we'll see how it shakes out I like that Crocker idea the other thing too is that Crocker has like a good space for it um practically speaking because they have like the second driveway I don't know I mean maybe it doesn't matter right but they have the drive sha Street and so what they've done before right is you would just close that that entrance and let like the kids use that whole section of Road you know that it's not you're not in the same space as like parents driving and staff driving and buses and so on like that that you could just say this is a bike area um yeah but yeah yeah I mean I think um the thing is the thing that's annoying to me is you know it's neither here nor there but the Bike Rodeo it literally there's a howto there's a kit there's Tor I mean there's so many resources to be able to kind of plug in and make something cool happen uh we've got parent enthusiasm and volunteers we've got money from the Wildwood pjo so you know there's just a lot there that if we um just had the right group who would be willing to sort of step up and plan it and make it happen well and maybe the other pgos would be willing to support it as well you know possible if you reach out to them um anyway does the amorist um Police Department have a bike Patrol they do well and they and they have an officer they had a bike officer um who with I have talked to Casey and he he rode with the group that came to Crocker starting at the South ammer Common um and he's like pretty excited to be the bike officer and he's been doing it for a while he seemed pretty great and he also rode with the fifth grade from Fort River last year to um the municipal building so um I did actually ask him and last year he did not feel in a position to say yes what about the um UMass PD I me it's true police yeah they have a initiative to get involved with the local municipali you know because they do defitely have a bike Patrol as well and they do other youth Outreach programming like as I was saying with AMR Shrek and um yeah because they would it too they also run a summer program cool no that's a good idea I can definitely put them on the list we just need uh one of the Departments to be a convener so Guilford you can expect to hear from me soon we don't need to have the conversation on in the TAC committee at this point but I this is going to be my request that I'll be making of all these players well I think it I'm excited I mean the nice thing I think about doing the bike sort of advertising at the same time that we're advertising the bike to walk but yeah spring is that I mean it does seem like there is momentum now with these Elementary School parents and there's this critical mass of them who are supporting these days and we're pulling in more kids all the time right that we had the most I think this was the third time that it's happened that like it happened twice last year in this fall and so that that is also like an audience who would be willing not that they would necessarily be willing to like step up and help organize but that they'd be willing to participate and and just kind of grow it too and and it's it's great to see that it's great to see that Tori is doing more of this curriculum stuff and that you know she has been in touch with all three of the ammer elementary schools I think she's also working with pelum I mean she covers her territory covers the all four western Mass counties so I mean and I also see her like come up at like it's you know walk by Springfield events and other events like all over the region so it's pretty impressive and I hope I mean Tori is the third um you know St forus school coordinator for Western math that I've like been in contact with because there used to be quite a bit of turnover and I hope that Tori will be there for a while but it seems like she really likes it and she's really engaged so go Tori so okay what is the fifth grade um class petition from yeah so I did I sent a link to it um they sent uh they sent a letter to the Town Council this week and also the link I sent um was like to an indie article I haven't seen it like published elsewhere yet uh so what it was is that it was following up I believe on the activities where the Fort River fifth grader classes in the spring that they met with Town Council Members they came to like a mock Town Hall as as Chris said they biked with the ammer PD like bike officer Casey and they were advocating for just more bike infrastructure in ammer and um and safer routs particularly like along like belter toown Road route nine and um and near Fort River and so to me I think unless I Mr remembering and Chris may know more but I think it was a fifth grade last year too which of course those fifth graders are now sixth graders so it seems like it's being led more by the teachers or those classrooms than yeah I reached out to um I reached out to the teacher and told her about the Town Council um you know considering the um the safety zones and she has not reached out to me yet but she wanted to talk about whether or not it made sense for the current fifth grade to do another project um of yeah so last year they created um a website you know they were focused on just more sustainability and reducing emissions and things like that and that's part of why they were promoting the biking at that time they did a survey and they presented the results at the Town council meeting um about what type of bike um infrastructure people prefer like do they prefer off-road paths or on-road paths or bike Lanes or things like that it was a pretty impressive presentation you know from a bunch of fifth graders um in this latest thing that they sent to the council which they sent to the Council on Monday um they sent their petition but it also included 60 PID PES of signatures which is incredible right I don't know how many were on each page but there were 60 pages of signatures that they got from youth in ammer and also surrounding towns in support of safe cycling so what their petition said is it said you know that we're students from these two fifth grade classes at Fort River and we're trying to reduce the use of fossil fuels and they want to make more safe biking opportunities for families in amers and they um they asked the town to prioritize the planning construction of familyfriendly separated bike lanes and off-road bike paths including on belter Town Road and um they also asked the town to prioritize updating the pelum road sidewalk so and also their third request was that the town revisit update and implement the bike ped plan that was prepared back in 2018 and 2019 so I mean they have some great ideas I don't know I just wanted to share it you know as something that they' doing and um and I'm impressed that they had 60 pages of signatures uh yeah great one thing is and they does look I mean I saw when I was driving on belshire toown road recently right I can see that the bike lanes are there for that part that was getting done this year which goes just a little bit past Colonial Village is that right Guilford like going going to words beler town umop right there so I mean it looks great the road is paved there I think there's now the crosswalk near Colonial Village right is that right there is now but is there a signage there yet for the crosswalk the sign is there but the flashing beacons okay the flashing beacons aren't there um yeah that all looks great uh it seems that I mean one it would be nice if there's more um like there's some better transition a little bit if anybody is using the bike Lanes cuz you get to that piece where the new section ends and the road just Narrows and if you were in the bike lane it's like yikes what like what happens um but I know you've talked about Gilford that like the goal of the town is to extend the bike lanes and so on out out towards Echo Hill and Amish woods and so on over time so so it' be great to add that piece um and this idea that they have I mean we've talked about pum Road like they were saying prioritize updating pelum Road and Gilford you've talked about the challenges with that in terms of that the RightWay there is really small and the sidewalks narrow and you'd have to there' have to be land takings in order to do much yeah which is actually you know coming back from the south again it's like they blow things out and make it fit make it all fit it's like if you were to do that in ammer you would get rid of all the houses on pum and ammer am Main Street in P Road all those houses would go away because you'd be in the house so it's like people who want it just doesn't fit doesn't fit yeah I mean South there's a lot more land well and I remember like sometimes when I visit on the cape the last time I like stayed in a house out there that there was a road that the town was looking at significantly expanding like the sidewalk infrastructure and biking infrastructure on this one section of Road and there were so many signs up on about it is like people who want to have that additional infrastructure but then people who don't want any takings and who want to keep the footprint of the road the same as it is and I mean people start to feel pretty conflicted if you like add all that I mean it's good but it makes everything wider and bigger and it can take people's property it does but then so you then you need to well so so anyway Gilford are you frozen I think you're freezing some I'm fre no um and the other thing too is that they were talking about separated bike Lanes uh so I don't know how realistic separated bike lanes are on narrow roads um and also you need to have like specialized equipment if you're going to keep those bike Lanes clear so there are some big Metropol in areas that have that do like Boston has a number of them and I don't know some City I think it was like Chicago they were changing a lot of their bike lanes over so it can keep bicyclist safe in some ways but I just don't think it's going to be realistic for ammer but I really do like when there is the roadwi to do it and I think both the research shows that both bicyclist and drivers feel more comfortable that if you can at least have like a buffered area like some of what like Hadley has done and Route n like a little bit of buffer between the vehicle tra like the car truck travel Lane and the bike travel Lane it doesn't seem it doesn't seem it doesn't seem as scary like I don't know Kim do you ever bike out on Route n like in Hadley and no but Hadley had to do that they didn't want to do that they actually didn't want to do that it's the opposite they were made to do that so well massio team made them do it I think no Mass uh there's a long story behind that but I mean every we just spent we just popped 10 12 million down in Hadley and there's no zero Improvement to public transit yes which is the goal of the project originally right it it's actually I I I would say it's decreased because yeah they have bus stops so the buses can pull off and get stuck in traffic and can't pull back on the road but I mean originally they were actually going to put a center lane in route n for buses and then have two TR so two lanes in the center and then um it had all sorts of computations and and things but it was really uh it was meant to put make Transit better and then to do um uh more capacity for cars to turn and safety safer for cars to turn and then do the other stuff they did and all they did was do big bike L that won't get plowed won't get plowed well they've done the sidewalks there's sidewalks which some of them may not get plowed either but then no the sidewalks won't get plowed and then there's the Turning Lanes so that's good right and they have added and they have added some contivity like to the rail trail right I think no they haven't and they've added can I ask a question about um back to Fort River do you guys find sure um Guilford the um Echo Hill parents are pretty loud about you know wanting a way to commute to um the Fort River Campus that feels safe and one idea I think I must must have emailed you about this is um it would it be possible to ask the private landowner amethyst Farm who owns the flood plane it's an agricultural restriction um to plan uh or do do an off-road path there between Echo Hill and the campus um if you actually look at it you do not need that person um what you need is for the Conservation Commission to be willing to put something across conservation land okay we talked about that a while ago I think I don't I don't remember the Conservation Commission entering into it was a long time before yeah because this has been a perennial issue even before the new school but now AR isn't there other possible to get there but there's other conservation land like around Hickory Ridge right in their building there's a connection going from you know pomoy out to yeah to I mean East Headley road is that is that a lot different with the River like I mean wouldn't the con Conservation Commission have to approve those Trails too and you need a bridge no matter oh okay here I'll share my map sure thank you is it two Bridges or just one that would be needed there would be can you see the area no I didn't push the button you haven't shared yet yeah can you see that so Fort River here and this is the neighborhood that shall rename nameless for the rest of the time um so you have to cross Fort River oh the Fort River at least once um and then this property here here oh it is here I guess you do need amous Farm I thought that I thought the conservation of taken one of these Parcels yeah so this Farm has to give you and then you have to cross over the you have to build a bridge to get across but this piece here is or this piece here is um Echo Hill so you can get to here and then you yeah you have to go cross somewhere through here you have to cross the Fort River and then you got a bunch of little things to cross in here yeah I'll turn the aerial on I thought they I thought conservation had bought this one conservation has that little section right behind the um there's like an office complex yeah it's this one here yeah but they were talking about buying this one I thought wait do you mean that little complex on like hel ammer Road MH the one near Fort River like that's got it has a community garden on it oh okay yeah it's just it's just highlighted one here you could do that you just have to decide you want lights on it because you have it's dark at night and dark in the morning and you'd have to maintain it in the winter if you're going to have that path right and it would be not that hard to maintain that ways just do you light it do you not light it you would need lights because it's it's not the kids never are leaving in the darkness no it's well it's it's close ear they're eight and like you know three so no that's true but it's dark by four but yeah my my instinct is I mean I have no idea I you know obviously parents from Echo Hill need to like someone somebody needs to decide that they're going to be the one yeah yeah sure um so uh just it's just useful this is helpful thanks Guilford thank you Gilford I think this well that's too that's that comes out to belch toown Road I mean I think this parcel here is now might be going on the market but the sidewalk is Right continuing to be improved along belter Town Road I mean that new section's improved and then yeah as you expand the work along belter toown road that it will also be the side will be fixed too so if I mean if they were to buy this piece yeah they could get although all these all these kids have to go a longer route this is much n white cleer well I think it's a little challenging too right because sometimes people are talking about biking a lot more on the sidewalk but then other people are saying you have to make sure that nobody's biking on the sidewalk and it's hard I think like with younger like with kids and things that um like I just don't see like elementary kids biking on the road on Bel Town Road even if you have a bike lane that you would want them on the sidewalk and then I there are some of those conflicts the kids would have to bike on the sidewalk there is no way you would want kids on the that street I no way but the sidewalk could handle it it's just not a great it's sidewalk and it's very narrow all right so let's see so the next item Guilford I did I was hoping you could talk a little bit about the chapter 90 section 17 C like the new signage is up and there was that news release that came out from the town that I linked to in my email but do you have any kind of quick overview you can give us no it's all it's all in place and the police are all they're going to enforce it um so let's see how it goes so and I did really I really like to and I'll just share my screen if it works hold on this like the gis map that was up like that was linked to in that piece um you guys can see that I guess and so what this is a great map now does this include like every road that has um yep that's limits okay if if you don't see if it's not colored it doesn't have a speed limit on it okay so like for example um I know I get a little lost on this map but like Heatherstone is it because so when I was on Heatherstone admiring the little mini roundabouts today like I did see that when you enter that part of Echo Hill from um the pum roadside there's immediately like a 30 m hour speed limit but I don't think it's a there's a speed limit on here unless I'm missing it it's not it's not supposed to be there those signs will be coming down shortly oh okay so did you find when you got when you and Jason when your team went through it and inventoried it are there a lot of places that have speed limit signs that aren't like official and they should be removed there are in addition to the Heatherstone one there there are others yes where did those come from um someone someone got tired of beating their head on the wall saying no and they just said well just put them up you're saying individuals just like ordered a sign and put no the town did it the town the town the town got tired of arguing about it and someone in the town stopped being yeah someone in the town said put them up they've been up for a long time over 20 years no I mean I think some of them have yeah um and I was also curious about the ones like I I know there's some near ammer College near the ammer College Fields or like some of these other ones that are labeled that are 25 miles an hour so will those stay up or will those come down if it's on this map if it's on the map you see here has got a its own uh speed regulation right so the question is like you know I was in this training on some of this but if um if the if the neighborhood speed limit is 25 and now the statutory speed limit is 25 at that meeting um the state you know the do like State Engineers guidance was that you would take down the 25 M per hour signs that are because they're matching the statutory speed limit that you wouldn't have them signed in the neighborhoods they recommend it but that's a statutory speed limit so it we're leaving them up okay and where is this little 20 m per hour Zone do you know I couldn't find it on here um H hold on I think I I was just curious It's zoom in on it do you do you know what part of town it's in uh no oh okay all right I could find it either they're the oldest ones if you actually I got the I got this over hold on so I mean My overall take on this map right is that most of the main corridors in ammer are they do have posted speed limits that continue to apply and that most of the neighborhood streets in ammer even the ones that may have signs they don't actually have like speed limits that apply um except for the underlying statutory speed limits is that sort of your take on it too yes and and I know too I mean one thing that's come up this is just a question for you it's more of a comment but I know that one thing that's happened in Springfield is that I mean they Springfield approved the 25 M per hour speed limit and then in certain neighborhoods they wanted and they had streets that were posted with a different speed limit they wanted to remove those and have the underlying 25 M per hour speed limit apply because it's lower um and that there really didn't seem is it do you know if there's like an easy process if neighborhoods want that or anything let's just my understanding is just resending the speed limit which has requires you to do something I don't remember what exactly I mean are you required to do like a study to resend the speed limits or I think you are oh okay so like for example like if we zoom in here oh sorry I'm trying to so like for example right this is um Lincoln and sunset my neighborhood Kim's neighborhood and like I'm sure that now that you have the underlying 25 mile per hour speed limit that the residents of these streets would be happy to have a 25 mile per hour speed limit there and not the 30 example I don't know maybe they could ask and also there's currently signage on mlen that says 30 yeah that'll come out okay all right but uhuh Jason went through and pretty much kind of got the map in the right order so if it's not on the map it shouldn't be there got it that's great so in I guess in the gis right is there like a table attached to it or is there a table available there this there is a table that's how they made it yes right okay oh a table that I meant that somebody could like export out of it you can't I mean yeah you can export any of the data out of it okay all right you I justuh what no go ahead you have to get right to ask for for it and like export it out okay you just copy it um could you just clarify the process for how you would go about lowering your speed limit in your neighborhood you would I don't know what it is I have to go read it right okay so um it wouldn't necessarily go through Town Council it would no it would go through Town Council it would oh Jeepers the question is does it have to go through the state yeah um there is some guidance on that um I was looking on one of the mot pages about it so I can send what I saw though I think some it you know some of it may be outdated but all right okay thank you it's really helpful to have this thank you for Jason for going through all these yeah it was made a long time ago uhuh we just had to update it so will you be sharing this data then like back to the state do so that they would update their Road layer or if they ask well maybe they don't know to ask they ask all the time for stuff oh they do okay okay they they actually Cruise our website they Cruise Town's websites and if they can't get it if there's not a way to get it they then ask the D the D do does it d d does it um and then and I know re the last time I was looking before um like there is a list on the mass do website about the communities that have um adopted chapter 90 17c and amorist isn't on that list like and I think it's that they expect towns to report in that they've adopted it or not it's been reported in maybe they all right I don't know I mean there's some other towns that aren't on it either um like Darfield I know Darfield adopted it and then and didn't did Hadley just adopt it as well at town meeting Guilford um I was busy doing something else that night okay I think they might have well now that you're not on the select board anymore in Hadley right so yeah I didn't we I didn't have to go that was the 14th wasn't it I think it was last week yeah yeah I was I I think they adopted I mean it sounded the news coverage it sounded like a few people weren't sure about it but overall it got enough votes to pass I was watching a very disappointing game of hockey that night oh that's okay and um so Heatherstone is I so i' put Heatherstone on the list just because the last time we talked you weren't sure about what was going to happen with Heatherstone in terms of that it sounds like um the DPW had continued to make changes to Heatherstone and those roundabouts to make them better and more visible and and you had told us Guilford about how some people I think we're all set you're all set so now it's good we're all set and it's going to stay in place for at least six months then we'll discuss it again now is there um so I so is it working okay with larger vehicles to go through there is that um some drivers need some attention to how they do it um other drivers they definitely end up on the island every time um some vehicles I guess is the way to say it do you mean like buses like like school bus I think the buses I it's pretty tight so when I went there today um to look at it and um and I I really like how it's designed but I did notice like even in my small car that it's like pretty tight like especially if you have to go like to 9 o'clock or or even go all the way around like you would on a larger roundabout um and there there were traffic cones like on all the islands and the roundabouts sort of like at the edges of them to make them more visible to drivers but wouldn't that would those interfere with like any larger Vehicles trying to use it they would they should be coming off they must be behind on signs the signs weren't up were they yet yeah so let's see so the Southmost one had the yield and roundabout signs on them and the middle one had the signs in One Direction they had the signs in the Northbound Direction and not the southbound Direction and the north one the one closest to palum Road it didn't have the signs yet okay um so maybe that's why they're there but I was just thinking about you know if I was a larger vehicle and I was trying to navigate it even just to go through like all those signs would kind of be in my well it's good to hear and I mean is there concern about those with the plows or anything or you think that they'll be okay they'll be fine I mean they'll be fine how much snow are we gonna get yeah I know I mean I was thinking about that even with the sidewalk there the sidewalk there is beautiful too and I know that some people were concerned about who's going to clear the sidewalk but you know over time there we won't have that much um wait um I'm sorry if I missed it but Guilford has the decision been made to make that permanent that um oh no he said six months sorry I missed that thanks thanks so that's great that's great so we'll see you in the spring and and are you still getting much feedback from people about it yes no um I don't think we are I think there was one email last earlier this week um but I haven't got gone back to read it um there's not much I mean good all it all looks good I imag I imagine somebody's Transportation class will probably go out there in this winter and examine it or something and look it over and yeah that's cool I mean and the crosswalks look good and I really like to the crosswalk at um pelum road is like back you know so it's not like a huge long Crossing it's like a shorter Crossing and yay it's great so thank you thank you for doing that do you see like it sounds like potentially that there could be other ones if this all continues to go well um we'll see okay well just I know that other neighborhoods right and you've hear from them too have asked for other like traffic caling and maybe so proposed these we we proposed something like this on Lincoln and sunset when they were having all the discussions about traffic calming there right cool you can um you can experiment on Butterfield Terrace there's only you know like six or seven of us and we're we would love anything besides the pool tool maybe you could have a little bump so is your is Butterfield Terrace is that a Town Road or UMass Road um it's Town Road but then there's all the UMass parking on the side right yeah all UMass is parking it's not the town's parking right right on the street on the street or parking lot oh I did not parking on the street ah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah right closer in front of the dorm and in front of international student but wait you can't park in front of your house on the street can you Chris I don't think so nobody can no yeah yeah okay there's no parking in the oh oh interesting after 5 o' she can probably park on the other side you can park in the lot when they're not enforcing it I don't know I'm just offering us up as another um we're happy to be lab rats in the traffic calming tactics category we're using inverted po inverted inverted uh speed humps for you wait a minute I think there's there's much worse there's much worse potholes in other places wait a minute um so Amity the roundabout at Amity and University so Guilford when you met with his last time ATT tack right you said you couldn't tell us anything and literally like there had already been a news release at least somebody had sent it out that it had been funded which is excellent and uh so I think it's great that the state came out and looked at the pomoy one and then also funded the the amdan university one and has like Council approv that yet or does it still officially have to get the council's blessing I think it is going on the second okay got it but it's already funded and it's designed it seems like it's not it's not gone through we have final design to go through stu okay and so do you think that that would be um built then in this spring like in this next construction year I don't we'll see we haven't got the grant yet so oh but you heard that you got the grant right yeah we haven't got the contract so we don't know okay got it uh cool cool very cool um great I may pull back all they may pull back all the grants you know after the after the election and the inauguration yeah they need the money to support the state um I hope not and then I was wondering about um the wine and 116 project like is that is that it's going on right now okay yes haven't you seen it it won't be I don't it's not gonna be finished till the spring though okay but the sidewalk the pull offs and sidewalks are in and is the crosswalk in and no oh the pull off is at least yeah the bus pull off is in it's We R widened on the Robert side and we have to we have the islands to do I think I'm really really I'm really impressed that all the work you guys are doing um and do we have like you had mentioned on the belr toown road project that there's no rfbs yet do you have rfbs yet or are you still waiting on those well we asked we asked for some free ones from the yeah right and it seems to be Dr they seem to be I don't know I hope they come through oh it's interesting they they want you to submit app Smith locations but then you have to have them up in six months um so you kind of be pretty far along in your project to ask for them yeah they take a year to get them to you what that's what it's gonna probably be I don't know so it's I don't know well hopefully I hope again I hope the state comes through and everything on that well we'll just have to take our money and buy them if they don't earn right let to see um cool so there was an an email went out to some of the Committees um and out on the like news blast of the Town sent out about residental Capital requests and that they're due by the 16th and that um you know there's a form that people can submit and then it goes to jcpc and jcpc considers the request and um I'm I have had questions about this process every year a little bit just in terms of that one of the things that members of jcpc tend to say is they say well is this request coming from a department you know and like it's a department priority and things and if it's not then it doesn't necessarily get funding in fact most of the time it doesn't it seems but like this year with the school zone thing like Jeremy Anderson's request he had requested speed feedback signs and those got supported so we'll see it seems like there still should be a better process or also and also just questions about how they prioritize it um because every year it comes up like that some neighborhood will request things and is the neighborhood that requests them the one that gets like the traffic caling or is do we need to be more Equitable about it so I don't know so I mean a long time ago right we had worked on the complete streets plan and prioritizing and and helping kind of develop a framework for that decision making but it never really went anywhere I think I don't know and now we have to wait till we have a commission for any of that to move forward that's what it seems like to me so not that that's I don't know what do you think alred can will there can we have any of that before there's a commission or yes I don't know I really don't know okay I would hope so but but I've also been heard that we might not like fill any TA vacancies until we have a commission and that might not be that soon I mean it will be hopefully like within the next year but we never know okay so we do have like 20 minutes left um oh and I didn't put on the agenda about when we want to have our next meeting um so it sounds like there's going to be this meeting this combined meeting with um Tso and the disability access advisory committee on the 12th like do we want to try to meet before that do we have much we have to talk about on the 5th probably and then then the other Thursday would be on the 19th which is like right kind of in the middle of holidays so are we saying that our one meeting in December should just be this joint meeting I think so sounds like Kim that's what you're saying I think but I think it's an important meeting and hopefully no definitely any of us can show up yeah I agree so Chris you agree yeah yeah I mean I would love to have another meeting but I I I feel crunched for time and I agree that of everything that we could be discussing this topic and the group would take precedence okay Stefan any opinion on this um yeah I'll be actually away the first week of December from about to the 8th or 9th so the second one the second option is better okay all right so there we have it um and I know that one thing is I do it seems like a lot of times the council will change like the TSO membership in January go ahead Kim yeah I just wanted to um uh discuss if there's anything that we should in particular be looking at like we you know since we are not having another meeting this is the only meeting that we'll have are there um plan you know can can the plans be sent out the week before so that we can all really look at them and maybe yeah absolutely you know so that we can all really be invested in this meeting I think I'll be happy to share whatever um TSO shares out and in fact it's been in like TSO packet before I don't think they'll be releasing anything additional that's a great idea so that like we can all just be like okay this is our duty for the month right we're gonna like out like be present at this meeting you know and then um and as I was saying I I guess we'll have to see what happens with TSO in terms of like when they change over the members because it's possible some members might leave I know that TSO has been it would be for this meeting that meeting no no no it would be like in Jan like after January the the president will look at like what committees people want to serve on the counsel serve twoe terms so they usually offer people the opportunity to switch like halfway through um one thing that TSO has been doing is they have been looking at the commission idea and putting it on their agenda at each meeting but they're not putting it as like the only item on the agenda they're just fitting it in with all the other things that TSO is also looking at so they're being methodical about it but it also means it's a sort of elongated process so I'm not sure what that will mean too like in terms of if TSO when TSO like changes over I can ask TSO about that but they seem like they're being pretty thorough about it um it will come back to the council at some point so I don't know if it will come back to the council with recommendations or whether it will be one of the carryover items that they're going to continue to look at so I don't know Guilford have you been going to the TSO meetings were you at the last one oh yeah yes very exciting very did were they talking about the commission much meeting or they are talking about the commission they're taking it in bite-sized pieces right yeah if you actually go to the video of the Tso and you kind of just scan it until you see um George start start talking when George starts talking they're talking about the commission okay I've been trying to I've been trying to watch all the recordings but I haven't like gotten through them but yeah okay start when George starts talking okay good yes okay I can I can send that out to to see if anybody wants to follow all that but yeah but they also write up some pretty good um summaries in their report that they send to the council so we don't all need to watch these meetings um all right so we now have about 15 minutes so we won't set any meetings beyond the 12th until um next year and uh I mean I did just want to have a discussion I mean a lot when I was putting together this agenda I was thinking about like these are mainly um like informational items not where any decisions are required by Tac and that I do think it's good to have a discussion about priorities like what we see as the priorities for TAC we used to have that review pretty much like every fall and I remember too that Guilford would have the list of um requested Improvement projects that had been submitted to him through various means and we'd look at his list and then think about what we wanted on our list and things like that so um and we can continue to have that discussion in January uh but like in I would be interested to hear from people like what are people's priorities right now I mean I know Chris has been working a lot on stay fre school which is awesome but Chris if you have other priorities or Kim or Stefan if you guys have thoughts about what we need to be doing well I I well you mean you mean the priorities for yeah for TCH yeah yeah well I think I think just getting our um our map in order I think is something that we need to really do our bik our yep and uh I mean that seems to me as number one and we we could also revisit all of the kind of I mean things have changed a lot right especially around the new school which since the last time we tried to look at like networks and whatever but I think that is the most valuable stuff that we do I think sure no I think that's true the map is a priority for me and advancing this commission yeah um and also just you know looking at I mean I think the town has made some great inroads this year like on a lot of these things related to speed management um and adopting this 25 miles an hour and now we have a saf Zone and we're doing more school zones and I mean there's a lot of great things happening um though there are some places still I think where people don't feel as you know so safe and so just continuing to advance some of that yeah you know I I also honestly I also feel like it would be good to get some people who I don't know a long a number of years ago you know we had a few members who were um on the committee who were more of car people and there were a lot of car people in town um and you know it's it's really useful to get that point of view as well because because you know there there are a lot of people in town who are car people and we also had people on the committee who were you know business people who are interested in parking and and and I feel like like you know and you know also people who mainly use the bus like I feel like we need more diversity on our committee that way it would legitimize what we do a lot more so well and I think I mean that's one reason that I've been asking right ever since we've had we had the vacancy when Tate left like Tate had been doing Transit um he left in September of last year right so it's been like over a year and um I mean I would really like to fill those vacancies and also expand and like I know Kim you've been on the TAC like for almost like forever and now I've been on the TAC for almost like five six years too I mean but we're not going to be we're not going to be on the tack forever I also just want to pull in more energy and more people and I mean I get stuck in my own things and I want to hear more voices I want to hear more diversity and um but but I think like we had that a few years I first started there were more different people like with different points of view I love I love our point of view of course because I feel like we're all very like-minded but we're not complete representatives of the town so you know I just feel like well so one thing is with the commission one thing to keep in mind is that there would be less there would be less pres representation on the commission likely that would probably be like three resident members the current proposal is three resident members you know with different backgrounds and then um somebody from the disability access advisory committee you know if somebody from that committee wanted to serve and then having staff like for example from DPW and police and but all those are good no and I really I like the idea of having all the staff in the room because like we're just advisory we're just residents like it's really important to have those points of view represented and you can actually make decisions right like we're not making decisions yeah so um but but even on our own I mean I you know so I'm not a driving person I'm not a parking person you're a super biking person and running and walk yeah and know yeah I feel like we could use absolutely at least at least one person who is more like like so Chris what do you think or Stefan do you guys have ideas too regarding the commission well no regarding kind of well you know your priorities or what you think Tech needs to prioritize in addition to what we've been talking about or reiterating what yeah I mean and I have said and I would continue to say um you know safe roots to school I would say the Fort River traffic pattern and um I think I um bump Kim that getting the master plan updated and before Town Council um seems like a totally worthy goal and you know with I know that we don't have all of our vacancies filled but with the people that we do have we could probably do it you know we could make make it happen so um to me those would rise as um priorities although I'm realizing that the Fort River traffic pattern I don't I guess maybe the tack could be um in influential or instrumental in helping um with forums and other ways to continue to collect the appropriate feedback that we need on that proposal so just to put a finer point on what I mean by the new Fort River traffic pattern great you're muted Tracy I was asking uh Stefan if has anything to add about priorities um in terms of like Transportation topics not necessarily but I think that maybe making um the tack or or know whatever ends up being called as it if as it becomes um as it changes next year potentially right um maybe making it more I guess that is pretty open to the public but maybe more I guess maybe for lack of a better term advertising it more to the public to see if either they come to us or or we can encourage the count in the town to maybe work to kind of I guess I guess to promote more s the attack so people are more understanding of of it existing and of it you know being a forum kind of piggyback what um Christian said payback off that and say have them come to us and have them be more open with issues either things that have you know new issues or existing issues or things that have kind of Fallen by the wayside right and yeah yeah go ahead oh no I was just going to say like looping back I think on existing issues like we've obviously over the past this past year we've had you know for example the one that comes up to me is the um the uh the kushman day school um and we touched on that very early this year end of last year early this year so just kind of looping back and seeing kind of what's changed reevaluating things it fix things versus okay it's we did it our next thing it's like okay well it's maybe I don't know three six months later whatever it is are there complaints about about it existing complaints about the same issue new complaints and has it fixed stuff so yeah no I think I you had raised um the idea of you know going back on the Henry so that's a safety zone right it's the first it's the town's first safety zone it would be great to hear about how that works um and I'd mentioned at the last meeting that I'm interested in having a meeting that also and I suggested maybe with TSO that it could be a joint meeting where we also have like somebody from police like talking about you know enforcement and their side of the speed management like all these zones are great but right like is there the capacity to enforce it um one of the one of the proposed roles like assuming that the commission goes forward is one proposed role is to provide some clarity um for residents about when people have a concern and they want the town to look at it like that that could be a place where people could go and where their complaints could be heard and then they would respond back to the public I mean currently and I get cced on some of the emails on this there are some people who have contacted Town staff or counselors like repeatedly about issues and specific issues and they don't feel like they've received satisfactory responses for a variety of reasons um and so I think like people are you know somewhat disillusioned with that and they don't know what to do and I mean that's why I brought up like even the jcpc is like I think there's sometimes a perception right if somebody submits a resident request that it could like kind of Rise not um so I mean I do really see that a role for the commission assuming it could be forward would to be like to some address some of that and I mean I remember one meeting I was at with um it was like one of the res um sorry the neighborhood like Council meetings that somebody was there from the DPW and they said that sometimes when people report stuff online to C click fix that sometimes there issues that don't involve the DPW like for example it could be on a state road or it could be like you know non Town property or things like that and that you know I think so sometimes like nothing's really done with that um concern and I understand that but at the same time I don't know if that's always clear yeah and and also we could also do some Outreach like in terms of right there's going to be a new roundabout um we still have back in parking like things like that we could also do Outreach about those things about the five foot you know the four- foot law like as Kevin had mentioned at our last meeting like some of the advocacy around or even just like promotion of some of those things so there's lots we can do yeah so I don't know thank you and we're grateful to Gilford for being here and yeah thank you G everything you're doing and Chris is gonna be calling you all right thank you bye bye take care bye see you in DEC bye