##VIDEO ID:FsDE2NwTnyc## we are recording the chair notes that the time is 609 and I call this meeting of the ammer zoning board of appeals to order my name is David sler acting chair for this evening of the ammer zoning board of appeals and I want to welcome everyone to this meeting we will begin with a roll call roll call of the zba members um chair David sler is present everald Henry present Philip White present Craig Meadows here and John Varner here a quorum is present and we can conduct the meeting tonight also attending the meeting tonight is Miss Jinta Williams Town planner is there any other staff on this meeting from the Town M Williams no okay thank you pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended Again by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means Additionally the meeting recordings may be viewed via the town of Amor's YouTube channel and zba page if you wish to make a comment please indicate your wish to do so by clicking the raise hand button when public comment is solicited if you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star n on your telephone when called on please identify Yourself by stating your full name and town affiliation please put yourself back into mute when you have finished speaking residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the zoning board of appeals chair if a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their otted time their participation will be Dison disconnected from the meeting in accordance with the provisions of mgl chapter 40a and article 10 special permit granting authority of the Amor zoning bylaw this public meeting has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and mailed to parties at interest the zoning board of appeals is a quasi judicial body that operates under the authority of chapter 40a of the general laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting the health safety convenience and general welfare of the inhabitants of the town of ammer one of the most important elements of the Amor zoning bylaw is section 10.38 specific findings from this section must be made for all of our decisions all hearings and meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff the procedure is as follows the petitioner presents the application to the board during the hearing after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information after the board has completed its questions the board will seek public input the public speaks with a permission of the chair if a member of the public wishes to speak they should so indicate by using the raise hand function on their screen the chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak when you are recognized present your name and address to the board for the record all questions and comments must be addressed to the board the board will normally hold public hearings where information about the project and input from the public is gathered followed by public meetings for each the public meeting portion is when the board deliberates and is General generally not an opportunity for public comment if the board feels it has enough information and time it will decide upon the applications tonight each petition heard by the board is distinct and evaluated on its own merits and the board is not ruled by precedent statutorily for a special permit the board has 90 days from the close of the hearing to file a decision for a variant the board has 100 days from the date of filing to file its decision no decision is final until the written decision is signed by the sitting board members and is filed in the town clerk's office once the decision is filed with the town clerk there is a 20-day appeal period for an grieved party to contest the decision with the relevant judicial body in Superior Court after the appeal period the permit must must be recorded at the registry of deeds to take effect tonight's agenda we've already taken the roll call and established that a full panel is in place uh there are no minutes to be reviewed and voted on tonight the minutes from the previous meetings will be addressed at the next zba meeting for the public hearing the first agenda item is zba FY 202-828-8303 4 b222 in the commercial zoning District the second item in tonight's public hearing agenda is zba FY 2024-the requests for a special permit under sections 6.3 and 5.10 of the zoning bylaw to create a flag lot and to construct a single family house on on the premises at 47 Redgate Lane map 11d parcel 166 neighborhood residence zoning District this item is continued from July 11 and from October 10 this will be followed by um public meeting and a discussion and then other committee business so with all all that said and everyone knowing what the legalities of such a meeting involves we can move to the first agenda item where I have a lot of paper and a lot of trees died for this meeting okay Mr chair uh yes Greg has his hand up oh yes I'm right sorry does anybody including Craig with his hand up have anything to declare on this agenda item yes I believe I do uh I believe my cousin is an investor in this group and I don't think it's uh reasonable for me to be on this panel okay if that is a conflict uh then fine we accept that that means there will be four people remaining and that is an adequate number to do business so thank you and we'll catch you on the other side thank you okay you're welcome all right um anyone else have anything all right since it deals with a marijuana dispensary I won't ask if anyone has ever smoked marijuana and not inhaled so we'll leave that that out for now so this this the first agenda item zba FY 202-8533 for the record at the beginning and then please go ahead sure uh my name is Phil Silverman from Vicente LLP 800 Boon Street 26th floor Boston Massachusetts uh I'm also here with Bridget nicer uh and Chris the gallant and Seth Rutherford from the company um and so hopefully they'll be able to uh speak as well um but again I'm Phil Silverman for 253 organic they do business as 253 Pharmacy and we're here seeking a special uh special permit to operate a recreational marijuana retailer at 328 College Street um this might sound familiar to the board and others that are are viewing because this site is presently operated as a recreational marijuana retailer by a company called red cardinal uh and to my client 253 will be purchasing this facility and the associated licenses and approvals from Red Cardinal so that it can operate the the facility um before I get to sort of the details of the application I just wanted to allow the principles of 253 to introduce themselves uh if I could so Chris do you want to just uh take it for a minute and then we'll go to Seth sure absolutely thank you my name is Christopher Gant co-ceo at 253 organic um good evening I would like to thank the board and the town officials for their time this evening once again my name is Christopher glant co-ceo of Seth rther at 25 the organic also one of the founders I grew up in grany Mass graduated from grany high and now own the home I grew up where I live with my family before returning to Western Mass to help start a cannabis company I lived in ucket for almost 20 years I started a construction company out there that built homes from start to finish offering caretaking Services as well my specialty was shop work having some of the my work published in architectural digest while living on Nantucket I've also built our Cabinetry for our full retail location in Turner Falls as you'll go ahead and hear from Seth we wear a lot of hats here at 253 recently the majority of my time has been spent in the manufacturing cultivation Department we believe in Innovation through Automation in that we've automated our chocolate bar equipment which allows us to go ahead and make 3,000 chocolate bars in roughly 2 hours and we've most recently added a pre-roll machine to enhance our efficiency we really look forward to working with the town of Amer go ahead thank you thank you Chris thank you Phil um good evening members of the zoning board of appeals thank you for your time tonight my name is Seth Rutherford I too I'm a co-coo and co-founder of 253 I grew up in pelman shutesbury attended amoris Regional High School and Greenfield Community College my wife and I currently live on Michelle's family farm in Hadley and have two children community has always been a very important to me being a small town kid and my hope is to bring my strengths back to amoris to help my hometown prosper in 2018 Chris and I decided to take a huge risk and pursue our dream of opening up a vertically integrated cannabis facility Chris and I knew we needed a strong team to compete and beat The multi-state Operators from Corporate America we decided to take our vision and dream to a family friend who introduced us to Marshall Wagner and alen Shore and soon after all four of us became Partners in form 253 Chris and I being being operators took on the responsibility of building to the Turner's false facility and then operating it we built we built over a 30,000 foot facility in less than one year and we were the 25th store in the state to open in 2019 we feel 253 feels that we are a very good fit for the community for a few reasons we are owner we are owner built and operated maybe the only group group in the state that has physically built their own facility and operates their own facility we are known for highquality products in Massachusetts allowing for premium pricing we're very proud that our entire management team has been here has been with the company from the start and nearly 80% of our staff has been with us over three years we have no corporate satellite office we're local and we're able to be reached for quick decision making we are financially stable and vertic integrated uh company and we're positioned for longevity we have great relationships with our current host Community here in monteu and turn is Falls we are we are one we are the only kosher certified facility in the state of Massachusetts and we have been voted number one in Franklin County for three years running in the Franklin County favorites I really I I would like to thank again the members of the zba and we appreciate the opportunity to partner with ammer great thanks Seth um now I'm going to ask my colleague Bridget to share her screen um and so that we can take a quick look at the site plan Bridget can you share right now yes let me know when you can see it um Bridget could you give us your name and address please for a record yes Bridget nikash here with the sente LLP at 800 boy Wilson Street 26th floor Boston Massachusetts thank you okay so here's the site plan um and and this will become a little bit of a theme during this presentation because the first thing I want to tell you is that we're not proposing any changes uh to that site plan um you can see uh there's ample parking here there's 36 parking spaces uh from what I understand from the present operation a lot has never been full so I don't anticipate um you know problems here in that regard we're not changing that we're not changing any of the curb Cuts you'll have the same lighting um there is if you notice sort of uh on on the leand building you know that's the that's the building that we occupy and it's that it's on the right the lower right corner of that building that we occupy and you can see sort of an indentation there which is it's a covered area right in front of the front door and that serves also so as our secure loading area and what happens there is there are some motorized doors that roll down over that area so that you pull the car in in front of the doors you roll uh those motorized doors down and uh you know we're able to do all of our secure deliveries they don't take a long time it's pretty well uh orchestrated to be very quick and efficient um but that's where we do it yeah in that area um and uh again no changes to any of the security features you know any the cameras uh the lighting the Alarm Systems that's all staying the same uh it's really not a lot of choice there anyway that's all uh cannabis control uh commission guidelines uh we're not changing the management plan that's been previously presented to the town operating under the same one um just so you know we're all on the same page this facility will operate uh potentially from 9:00 in the morning to 8:00 in the evening Monday to Friday and from 10: in the morning to 8 in the evening on Saturday and Sunday um we're not proposing any changes to the conditions in the existing special permit uh we assume we'll be uh operating under the same conditions um and uh the floor plan I'm not going to unless you want to see the floor plan I prefer not to show it just because becomes a little bit of a security issue uh I'm happy to do it if you really think it's necessary but it's the same floor plan that's been operating it's got all of the features that are standard uh in these operations the entry vestibule where you you go into the front door but you can't get further into the facility without showing your ID proving that you're 21 years of age and being buzzed further in there is a vault area within the facility where all of the product is stored in the evenings and then you've got your standard U you know point of sale positions uh within the store um so again very very standard floor plan um that you know I'm sure you've seen in the other facilities in town as well um the only other thing I'm going to show you in terms of exhibits here Bridget if you could switch us over to the signage this is actually the only change um that you'll see if you look to the left hand view you'll be able to see that that's the current view uh for red cardinal the right hand uh again is the signage for 253 Pharmacy uh so pretty minimal change and again not none of these signs you don't have neon lights or any of these types of things uh that become a nuisance to the public it's very straightforward um apart from that you know I would point out and Bridget you can go back uh you you you can stop sharing now um apart from that uh you know we are working on a host Community agreement um with the town I expect that uh that's going to be signed day now we finalized some details just yesterday uh I've uh presented that um I I I think that you may have received that uh henta received that yesterday it's basically you know in that form that it's going to be um but we're on we have no real disagreements at this point so I expect that to be signed any day now and I'll also note that um you know the process of uh selling uh licenses um you know has to go uh before the Cannabis Control Commission and be approved there we're in that process right now um I would expect you know approval will come probably anywhere from the next 30 to 45 days uh during a public meeting of the Cannabis Control Commission so um that's our our presentation um again I you know the everything is really the same so I didn't want to go into too much detail but I'm happy to answer any questions if uh if there's any that arise or if you feel I didn't cover something adequately for you okay thank you um I neglected to do something at the beginning so let me do it now Steve would not have forgotten but sorry there was a site visit um on Tuesday I believe uh where uh everald and John and I representing the board and just since it was there there we toured the facility we walked the exterior of the building we saw the adjoining spaces and and we saw and went over with the people who are presenting tonight the delivery setup and we had the procedure for delivery confirmed with the roll down doors uh and how they go about securing the space before they open the doors and when they do it we also toured the interior and saw all of the things that Mr Silverman referred to the Vault the security system the the really cool money counting machine and everything else in the operation so it's a it's a physically it's a small relatively small space so the tour didn't take very long but the various components that were there we saw everything and I believe we can confirm that everald or John do you have anything you want to add about the site visit I think you covered it Mr chair thank you okay the other thing that I would add having read a lot of this today especially the um the project application report there are a lot of conditions in the report that were carried forward and included here from the previous approval from the 20120 permit I believe it was and they're included here to ensure that they continue to apply it does not infer or mean that they are new or actually proposed there's a condition in here that says that to protect people in a queue they will erect an awning well the awning is already there so you know the the thing that I personally took away from the site visit was that nothing is going to change except for a couple of signs and what the owners look like but that's about it so we were the the site visit was um you certainly reinforced all of the things that the applicant is saying tonight does anybody on the panel have any questions of the applicant I hi Mr chair so I I heard that the the host agreement is not yet finalized and the version that was sent to us earlier on today still had the red lines um and and within the red lines there were comments and questions or which you understand that those red lines were resolved and those comments were satisfied and there's a clean version out there somewhere just pending signature that that's what's going that's exactly what's going on um and so again to the extent that there's a concern there we're happy to have you add a condition uh to uh this decision which states that you know we're not able to uh commence operations unless and until we have a signed poost Community agreement but I expect that's going to happen any day okay thank you okay um Miss Williams this is the time for public comment if if there's not is there anything else from our panel no is does do you see anybody who wants to participate Miss Williams no I don't okay Nei or I okay um there are a number of things that oh right so now we could leave the public hearing and go to a public meeting and that's when we read all the findings and things like that and to go from the hearing to the meeting we need a motion and a vote by the panel so is there a motion to move to a public meeting while keeping the public hearing open do I hear a motion anyone before we do that um just keep I think we talked about advising um 253 that we are four instead of five they we need four votes just in case they wanted to um right right we had talked about that for the second agenda item but it's also appropriate here thank you Mr Henry correct telling you right okay do I four four affirmative votes can approve it but there's only four people on this panel now that Mr Meadows has recused himself so we're offering you the option of continuing or with or continuing if you're concerned that there are not five people on the panel four of which you will need now there's four four of which you'll need are you okay with are you okay to proceed I I haven't heard anybody express any concerns regarding this so if somebody has some let me know otherwise we're happy to proceed all right well I haven't heard concerns either but if you hear them and you decide to change your mind by all means we're ready great so thank you Mr Henry is there a um a motion to move to public meeting while keeping the public hearing open so move so second okay we have a motion and a second this is a um a roll call vote is there any discussion no all right um the chair votes yes Mr Hen hry hi Mr White hi Mr Varner hi all right so we will move to a public meeting and hold and keep the public hearing open does anybody on the panel have any questions any comments that they want to make any expressions of any sort relevant to this I I given site visit Mr chair and understanding that nothing is changing and I'm I have no objections to supporting this um I did review the conditions and maybe this may be more of a question for Miss Williams on number four conditions it says a violation of the host Community agreement may result in revocation of a special permit or site plan review approval just trying to understand what constitutes a violation of the host Community agreement um that I would have to double check with the Building Commissioner but I do know that it is written into our zoning by law um so I would imagine anything that's in there that is not adhered to in terms of the host Community agreement and what has been agreed upon with the town manager would be considered a violation I might be able to help you a little bit here having seen this before um you know there are obligations to pay impact fees you know once that process has gone uh through the Cannabis Control Commission so that's the type of thing that might be a violation there's obligation I think you're obligated in the host Community agreement to pay certain taxes um you know there there you've certainly reviewed the host Community agreement any any violation of the terms of that agreement that you see in there you know that's that's enforceable and this is one of ways it's enforced uh is you know you can lose your special permit if you don't abide okay so should the language say this special permit because it says a special permit that makes sense we can change it we can change it um one second I generally do this while we're doing this portion so that everyone can see the same thing um so we are looking at number four and I can change that to a violation of the host Community agreement may result in the revocation of this special permit um and we can put a date I I don't think no I I imagine that within the host agreement there's a cure period that gives them a chance to fix that so maybe not put a date here yeah okay so we'll leave it as is or as amended now okay and and number 10 the applicant shall file an annual report with the zba what happens with that report that they file um I believe that we just keep it on file but again attorney Silverman you have more expertise in this than I do would you like to answer the question yeah sure I mean I I think that's you know for you to take a look at obviously to the extent that it raised any concerns I think you you probably have the ability to call us in and ask us further questions uh so it's really just to give you an idea of what's going on keep you updated on any changes that sort of thing and then if it raises concerns we're always happy to come back and talk to you but doesn't that require the zba to sit for a public meeting to review that um well it it it might I I'm not sure you can't have an inform formal meeting to discuss those obviously to to the extent that you perceived after that discussion that there might be a violation of the permit then I think you could you know act accordingly that way but I'm not sure just to have a meeting regarding a report that you need to actually have a public meeting about that at least at first plush probably later on if you're seeking to enforce the special permit because I I don't think I mean with open media laws I don't think individually we can we can discuss outside an actual if we each get a copy and review it we can discuss ABS am meeting no but you could do it at a at a meeting of the planning board I think okay so maybe we can put something in there to say that once board members have reviewed it if they feel like they need to meet um they can contact staff and we can do a meeting at the next whatever the next zba meeting date is would that be something we could consider um what does everyone else think we certainly have no problem with it because I think we we had a similar not similar application but a similar situation where something was required to be submitted annually to the cbaa and the question was you know how do we manage that and who does it go to um and does it make sense to have this condition in there if it's just not going to go anywhere um so I'm I'm I'm I I think if the if it's necessary we should leave it but maybe um and I know just into that you're new with this application I don't know how right Cardinal has done that um over the last few years that they've been operating yeah my sorry go ahead no I don't have any knowledge sorry go ahead my this strikes me as one of those conditions that was carried for forward from the original permit that was granted for red cardinal and was just brought forward to make sure that everything is still being uh complied with I don't I'm not aware of the applicant having to file an annual report but if that if that applied to the original then it's five years or four years years since this has been in effect I don't know that it needs to be in effect but I'm not uh I'm not qualified really to make that decision I do know from reading a lot of this that a lot of the conditions seem to be broader state regulations that apply to the marijuana industry it's a lot of oversight and they these uh these conditions seem to be carried forward into all of into this document so I don't know that it's of specific concern if you're concerned and we want to do it we can do it it's not that I I want us to do it I don't want them to do something that's not necessary I mean what exactly would go into this annual [Music] report yeah I mean one of one of the things that is noted in a lot of the um project application report is that the staff says the the panel the zba may want to confirm that certain things are still being done and pretty clearly from the site visit and from what Mr Silverman has said it's all still in effect and red cardinal apparently has a good record of compliance but I I think that's um in in a in a day-to-day operation perspective wouldn't that be either town you know the building commissioner or inspectors to make sure that they're in compliance not necessarily the zba I would think that makes much more sense to me yeah so um I I don't necessarily think we need to have them do something that serves no legitimate purpose so I would say table number 10 and check in with the Building Commissioner and see if it's absolutely necessary and if it's not I don't think we should put this on them for no reason I agree I agree as well should we just remove it I'd be more comfortable if we check with the building commissions see what red cardinal did and if it actually made sense with whatever if they had to submit something can can I can I make a suggestion because you know we're obviously very anxious to try to get this approved tonight uh without delay um and I understand if you feel we can't but um how about if you change it to say upon request of the Building Commissioner we'll do it that way you know unless there's some good reason um you know we wouldn't have to do it I can I can be fine with that upon request of the Building Commissioner the applicant should file an annual report or just a report if you want yeah a report regarding the last 12 months of operation I think that makes sense yeah great okay good thank you GL we resolve that anything else Mr Henry that you've come up with um I I agree with you with all that a lot of it is state regulations um and so I I don't necessarily see um any changes to be made other than those two that I felt were local to town of amers so other than that I'm I'm fine with the conditions as they are good okay Mr yeah yes uh so if we can go back to 10 uh Miss Williams uh you actually had highlighted what I had a question on so yeah um with changing that won't we also need to remove after annual report just delete with the zoning board of appeals and shall appear before the board so that number 10 would then read upon the request to the Building Commissioner the applicant shall file an annual report to present the report no later than third yes because it would be why would we have them report before us if they're presenting a something to the Building Commissioner you know can I take that out Mr Henry oh that's fine and but but just to um I I just want to make sure that I'm not going against something that's serves a purpose I would like to add and the Building Commissioner May refer reports to the zba as necessary yeah okay I like that all right Miss Williams you have that one second how dare you not anticipate our no I did you saw me highlight it I just ask the question okay all right so I'm I'm going in the interest are we done are we done with that are we white Mr Henry does I can't see your screen anymore what does it say oh you can't see my screen oh I moved over oh it says upon the request of the Building Commissioner the applicant shall file an annual report to present the report no later than 30 days following renewal of a state license or registration providing a copy of all current applicable state licenses The Building Commissioner May refer the report to this zba as deemed appropriate perfect okay okay all right so in the interest of time effort and efficiency I'm going to go through a few things that are in the project application report that reflects staff response to things and if anything um if I mention something that anyone objects to please leap um this the the um Stafford the applicant has provided sufficient evidence indicating they meet the requirements of the state in the town of amorist I agree uh the the staff says the board may wish to confirm the applicant that the confirm confirm with the applicant that the following Provisions are still in effect it has to do with parking and the uh store security and how to manage a queue with an awning uh also it has to do with parking all of which will not change and seem to be handled properly business hours will not change um other things like Waste and Recycling and lighting we confirmed that they are all in place and the applicant is asserting that there is no change to any of it so the things that the staff said we might want to confirm and largely it was the security of Lo loing and unloading I for one saw it and am very comfortable that it is currently that the current operation is uh conforming to the rules and the conditions so I don't know that we need to spend time going over that since these were just carried forward is everybody okay with that I I don't want to rush through anything but I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on stuff that's not necessary are we all fine I am Mr chair good good okay thank you so next I believe is reading the findings is that correct Miss Williams yes okay and just for the record I am updating the project application report to reflect um that these things were confirmed either during the presentation or during our site visit right okay well we'll get to in the findings we will even confirm more things like the dumpster okay okay so I have to read these findings for the record uh section 10.38 uh 10.38 and 10. 381 The Proposal is suitably located in the neighborhood in which it's proposed and um we can confirm that because it's an existing operation 10. 382 10. 383 10. 385 and 10. 387 The Proposal would not constitute a nuisance due to air and water pollution flood noise odor dust V vibration lights and or visually offensive structures or sight features it goes on to list a lot of specifics the staff review overall The Proposal remains consistent with the previously approved site design and operational plan and would not constitute a nuisance It also says because the day-to-day operations of the use have not changed the packaging and interior storage of the marijuana marijuana infused products and waste Associated therewith provides appropriate safeguards against odor and pollution uh the use of has not had a significant impact on overall traffic operation further the surveillance cameras and security system the delivery enclosure and the regulatory oversight by the town continue to eliminate any perceived or actual hazards to the abuts 10. 384 adequate and appropriate facilities would be provided for the proper operation of the proposed use and the staff review said that we may want to confirm that the uh with the applicant that the following Provisions are in place lighting surveillance and a secured delivery enclosure along with a dumpster and we do confirm that the prop uh 10. 386 The Proposal ensures that it is in conformance with the parking and sign regulations and we confirm that the proposal provides uh 10. 387 sorry the proposal provides convenient and safe vehicular and passenger movement within the site uh staff review no changes to the curb cuts are contemplated or proposed so there's no change to the current successful operation 10. 388 The Proposal ensures adequate space for off Street loading and unloading of vehicles Goods materials uh this again asks to confirm the the the delivery the secure delivery and the pickup of unused discarded and return marijuana and marijuana products and um this is one that's carried forward it says the board may wish to ask the applicant how to meet and how they meet or fulfill the this requirement it's already being done so that is satisfied 10. 389 The Proposal provides adequate methods for disposal and or storage of sew ref sewage refu recyclables and other wastes and um the staff review said we may wish to confirm that the with the applicant that the following Provisions are still in place and we are comfor able that they are 10.39 is not applicable 10391 that um The Proposal protects unique or important natural historic and scen and Scenic features and I know I didn't see any when I was there it's a strip mall 10392 is not applicable according to the staff 10393 The Proposal provides protection of adjacent Properties by minimizing the intrusion of lighting including parking lot and exterior lighting and uh we confirm with the applicant that the following Provisions are still in place that lighting would be and is appropriately located 10394 the The Proposal avoids to the extent feasible impact on steep slopes flood Plaines Scenic views grade changes and wetlands there are wetlands located on the north side of the property line but no changes are proposed so the wetlands would not be impacted uh the next 10395 is not applicable 10396 deals with screening for storage areas loading docks dump rooftop equipment Etc and everything at this site that I believe we observed on the site visit is interior there is nothing exterior I presume related to security and operation so we confirm that 10397 is not applicable 10398 has to do with um proposals in harmony with the general purpose and intent of this bylaw and the goals of the master plan it also deals with the 300 foot buffer and uh the staff review said that it is in harmony so proposed conditions any questions about the findings okay so proposed condition of approval but we did change number 10 and okay do we have to read all of the conditions of approval Miss Williams um for the record judge would read them he would then so would I okay proposed conditions of approval well number one doesn't even make any sense because it shall be built it's already built shall we take this one away I think so for for this application I don't think that it shall be built and any deviation they only want to deviate from the sign so I don't think that that's an issue number two no marijuana shall be smoked eaten or otherwise consumed or ingested on the premises okay the hours of operation 9 to 8 Monday through Friday 10 to 8 Saturday and Sunday That Remains the Same a violation of the host Community agreement may result in the revocation of a special permit all aspects of the recreational marijuana retailer relative to sales distribution dispensing or Administration must take place within the enclosed area as defined by 935 CMR .002 and shall not be visible from the exterior of the business no outside storage of marijuana related supplies or educational materials is permitted marijuana facility shall be ventilated in such a manner that no odor from marijuana can be detected out um outside of the property or on any adjoining property the applicant shall provide the Police Department fire department Building Commissioner Board of Health and permit granting Authority with the names phone numbers mailing and email addresses of all management staff and keyh holders including a minimum of two operators or managers of the facilities identified as designated contact persons to whom notice should be made if there are operating problems associated with any use associated with a special permit this list shall be submitted prior to the opening of the marijuana facility or in this case the transfer to the new to the applicant any such contact information shall be updated as needed to keep it current and accurate one of the two designated contacts as described in condition 10 I think that was condition 8 shall notify the police department and the other Town agencies in writing to any change of management of a facility regulated under this section number 10 we already dealt with and changed number 11 the designated contact persons as indicated in condition 8 shall be required to respond by phone or mail within 24 hours of the time of contact regarding an inquiry regarding operation of Facility by a town official this special permit shall be non-transferable and shall have a term limited to the duration of the leasing of 328 College Street for the purpose of a marijuana establishment um in the event of such expiration as stated in condition says 11 but that number may have changed Ed the applicant shall be required to remove all material plants equipment and other paraphernalia in compliance with rules and regulations from the Department of Public Health and the can cannabis Control Commission um a copy of the final certificate of registration received from the Cannabis Control Commission shall be filed with the Building Commissioner for the record all exterior site improvements already constructed on site including the driveway parking area and a lot of other things shall be maintained in good working order if that's the key here in accordance with the operations and maintenance plan and article 7even of the zoning bylaw bylaw number 16 or whatever the number is now any significant increase in vehicular traffic resulting and insufficient parking as determined by The Building Commissioner shall be addressed by the applicant with changes to the parking area or management plan after review and approval by the zoning board of appeals at a public hearing do we want to change number 16 to not require approval by the zoning board at a public hearing but the Building Commissioner can take care of it Mr Henry yeah I I think that makes sense I don't necessarily think we need to bring everything to the zba right me too okay Miss Williams would you change the end of what is currently 16 but whatever you change that number to since you dropped number one I haven't officially dropped number one yet I'll do that after we're done with everything okay then we then it's still 16 yes shall be addressed by the applicant with changes to the parking area or management after review and approval by by The Building Commissioner okay okay this use shall be operated in conformance with the approved fy2020 and FY 2025 management plans any change in the management plans shall require the review and approval of the zba at a public meeting that we can leave alone because that's what we do a maximum the next one deals with the maximum total occupancy of no more than 22 customers and seven staff members for a total of 29 unless reviewed and approved by the zba the next one is um the next number 19 is a carryover from the original so this is already um in place so probably should say all exterior lighting shall be [Music] maintained so as to be shielded or downcast you can take out designed and installed I think since it's already there just put maintained number 20 the applicant shall be responsible for all costs associated with temporary no parking signs the use of amorous police officers and any other costs related to vehicular and pedestrian traffic that can stay if deemed necessary by the police department a detail police officer shall assist with traffic uh number 23 the applicant shall arrange for an inspection an inspection of the marijuana establishment in common areas by the police by the police department prior to business opening and correct deficiencies I can't imagine why the next one's even here but doesn't do any harm any oil or gas spillage occurring in the loading area I guess that would mean a leaking gas tank um shall be soaked up by an absorbent material and properly disposed of number 24 all exterior lighting shall operate From Dusk to 11:00 p.m. 7 days a week light shall be activated by a photo El electric cell and turned off by a timer all lighting must comply with dark sky requirements number 25 has to do with the ownership of the property and if that are separated if the ownership is or the or the parcels are separated and executed parking license or easement with a proof of marginal reference must be registered okay the entire building shall provide a sprinkler system I presume that's already the case I can't don't know how we can what we more we could do 27 before the issuance of the building permit uh 27 I think should just be removed you okay with that Mr Henry my contract specialist okay uh because it's already built and the awning is already there um and the last one if the host Community agreement has not been executed by the time of the start of the public hearing the applicant must provide the zba with a copy of the signed H um host Community agreement as approved by the town manager within 30 days of the issuance so we already discussed that is this adequate is this an adequate is is this condition adequately Le stated I think it is attorney it works for me it's fine does it work for you Mr Henry so we're about to conclude the public hearing and we still don't have a final version um so maybe simplified to say the special permit is only valid upon execution of the host Community agreement that Mak that's that's fine that it becomes valid upon that yes Mr Silverman that's fine okay all right so change that and then however long it takes so the special permit is only valid upon ex ex ution of the host Community agreement yeah okay I will take out the rest okay any panel members have any comments any further comments on any of the conditions or findings so I think the next thing we do is vote I believe to approve the findings is that correct yes okay and the conditions the conditions and the findings as reviewed and amended um so do I I'm happy to entertain a motion that we approve the conditions and findings as reviewed and amended do I hear such a motion uh Mr Henry moves do I have a second second Mr White second is there uh it's moved and seconded is there any discussion on this motion none heard the chair votes I Mr Henry I Mr White I and Mr Varner I the motion passes um now pardon me now we vote to Grant the special permit right with the conditions right so now every um now the next thing is to vote on the permit itself the application itself to Grant the special permit including the conditions and findings that we have just approved do I hear such a motion so moved thank you Mr Henry second go ahead Mr Varner I second it well done thank you the motion is moved and seconded is there any discussion on the motion hearing none the chair votes I Mr Varner hi Mr Henry hi Mr White hi the vote is for to nothing in approval the motion passes uh Mr Silverman and your gang of Sidekicks you uh you have your approval congratulations we wish you the best and we wish you success thank you very much much appreciated you are on an unrelated note Mr Silverman good on you for spelling your name the right way yes all the the club the Phillip Club that's a very specific joke that only people would name Philip with one L would get but sorry thank you everybody thank you very much you're welcome good night all good luck now we just have to to close the public hearing right and we should vote on that so now we will vote to close the public hearing on the um 253 Pharmacy application that we just approved do I hear such a motion so moved thank you do I hear and Mr Varner seconds is there any discussion I don't hear any the vote um occurs on the roll call the chair votes I Mr Varner I Mr White with one L Mr Henry I actually I should have said Mr White with no L's you know Phil there's no l in white just in case you weren't sure all right the motion passes for nothing uh the public hearing is closed on that application whatever number it was I already moved it but we all know it's the uh 253 Pharmacy application so that one is finished we are now prepared to move on to the second agenda item for the night which is the um application for Mr Clay for 47 Redgate Lane um Mr chair normal yes oh yeah you might have been doing it go ahead I was going to say we normally stop for a break at 7:30 and we're getting close to 7:30 and the next one is definitely going to be more than 15 minutes so I suggest we take a five minute break and let's try and keep it to under six and we um will meet back here in five minutes and we will welcome back with eager and Open Arms Mr Meadows for that one and uh so five minutes and we'll see you all here e e e e e e e e e e e e e open welcome back Mr Meadows why thank you you're welcome I know I for One Missed You oh that's so sweet of you well see I think you did a far better job than I would have done so thank you I you're welcome I've seen you in action and I don't quite accept that but it's very kind of you to say oh you you are slow and thoughtful I'm fast and Fast okay thank you so you're welcome to do it every time if you wish yeah okay good well I can't wait for Mr judge that'll be good okay so we are now we are now back and I see Mr Varner so you can observe without uh without your camera Mr V you might want to after I announce that you're not on the panel you can mute and turn your video off and then hang around until the end very good okay are we are we ready to go Miss Williams I'm ready when you're ready okay I'm ready okay all right so we are now we now move to the next agenda item which is zba FY 2024-the requests for a special permit under sections 6.3 and 5.10 of the zoning bylaw to create a flag lot and to construct a single family house on the premises at 47 Redgate Lane map 11d parcel 166 neighborhood residence zoning district and this is continued from July 11 and October 10 so Miss Williams if you'd like to invite the applicants and representatives in oh so Mr Sparkle is here but I think Mr re is joining us okay Mr REI I know I'm surprised too I'm I'm maybe something changed well I'm amazed that he let a different attorney get in on the previous case meet you actually W welcome back Mr REI thanks for having me fellas yeah so um Mr Sparkle and and is is Mr Clay here with my understanding that he was here okay I'm a little confused why I'm not saying it there he is he's got my name on the screen somehow that's a good trick right so I I need to make you aware make the applicant and representatives aware of something in an effort to be extremely fair I don't want anyone to feel that they did not have the most fair and appropriate opportunity the panel that is assembled tonight uh includes four members who have been hearing this application from the beginning the fifth one uh Mr judge who is the permanent chair of the committee I'm only acting chair tonight is not here that means there are only four participants on the panel tonight and Mr judge said that we can go ahead and hear this and vote on it tonight if we feel we have enough information to do that we can pass and approve an application with four votes we cannot with with three so because there are only four people on the panel tonight it means that when we take a vote if we take a vote all four have to approve this application in order for it to be granted otherwise it will be defeated because it would only have three votes so I'm offering you the opportunity without prejudice to continue until you have a full five member panel in front of you in which case you would be able to spare one vote tonight you can't spare a vote and um according to Miss Williams there are no hearings in the foreseeable future where there are any absences that we're aware of so we are prepared to go ahead uh I'm just taking pains and I conferred with the rest of the panel before the we began the meeting tonight and one of our members suggested this and it was what I was thinking and I approve of it so I'm presenting this to you as a an alternative without prejudice that you can exercise or you can go ahead you make the choice if you want to go ahead we're ready we're ready to go Jonathan you want me to take that uh you're muted so you're muted Mr Clay go ahead Tom and then if I need to chime in I'll raise my hand perfect um so I guess to Miss Williams just a question Mr judge has not missed any other meeting has he no he is not attorney REI so then we could go forward this evening if we get to a place where let's say one member has a condition that we're just not willing to adhere to we could request a continuation wait for all five members hopefully Mr judge would not also find that condition was appropriate if so there were no different position then this evening but at least we're able to go forward uh hopefully able to convince the the four members uh of The Proposal as proposed and um receive approval but at least I think we have that I'll call it an escape hatch so I think it's fine to go forward is what I'm saying all right if you're if you're completely comfortable um that's fine we can do it all right if we I just if we get to a point of taking a vote tonight I'm going to call for the motion and I would ask it's not necessarily that there will that there might be a condition that someone isn't comfortable with it it could be that we decide to go forward so I just want to make sure I'm bending over backwards to make sure that your decision is what you want yeah and I and um I guess a couple of direct comments to that uh Mr chair uh one is I'm I'm probably gonna ask for a straw poll before you go to a vote just so I know where we stand and if I don't have the votes then I don't have votes so that's number one second uh I have to admit I might be a little concerned at this point that the board is taking such pains to explain this um but don't I may not need to read into it don't don't read into it okay please I'm not instructing you please don't read into it we just are trying to be as fair and cons and conservative and considerate as we possibly can okay so we are prepared to move ahead with this then um I guess Mr REI uh it's up to you please introduce yourself as though we had never seen you before and give us your address sure uh thank you very much Mr chair members of the board Miss Williams for the record Tom Rey I'm an attorney with bacon Wilson out of ammer here on behalf of Mr Jonathan Clay and his application for what is actually the the fourth effort because there's been three issued uh special permits for a flag lot at this site with me this evening is Mr Clay uh who you've spoken to already and then the engineer uh Bucky Sparkle um who I think did the majority of the presentation last time walked you through the site Etc want me to get into it I who I don't who who's going to do who's going to make the presentation Mr I think I'm going to okay you know because I think um I mean what I'll do I'll share my screen just to reorient everyone to the site then I'll get Bucky's plans up uh and we'll talk through it but I I think I mean somewhat frankly it's a relatively simple request uh for what we're looking for here so let me go and just sh I I think it's I think it's a good idea to do um a a reasonable review those of uh those of us who have been on this panel I think the the first panel or the most in-depth panel was in May and uh seems like a long time ago so I think it would be very helpful if you would refresh us pretty thoroughly on your application sure um okay so just to reorient the board and I'll zoom out just a little bit if you can see my screen ammer GIS map this is the parcel right here it's it's over two acres it's in the RN zoning District district on Redgate Lane um you've got a a denser zoning District RG just to the South this is part of that RN zoning District here I'll Zoom back in so you can see this parcel uh has sufficient area for a a flag lot the RN zoning District requires 20,000 Square ft for a frontage lot as you know for a flag lot you need double that minimum lot area uh exclusive of the access strip to actually qualify as a flag lot this parcel has that area in fact uh as you'll see the The Proposal is essentially for the two lots the frontage lot um one of which Mr Clay's house sits and the other is going to be this flag lot um the the flag lot is about 48,000 Square ft and this is 54,000 square feet and so when you look in the neighborhood know if you start to to poke around for what size Lots do you have you know you've got 37,000 43,000 43,000 43,000 880,000 55,000 31,000 so you'll this is by way of comparison another 60,000 so you'll see that the resulting lots are appropriate within the the neighborhood that we're dealing with um I'll also mention as I somewhat mentioned in the I'll call it introduction a flag lot has been issued three times before in 2005 uh fy2 2005-12 in 200 16 fy2 2016-2 and then in 2019 FY 2019-07 so there have been three previous Zoning Board of boards of appeals who have found that this lot and especially this portion of this lot are appropriate uh for a flag lot and I think that's you know a little bit of the theme of what we'll be talking about this evening so that's that's the site and Bucky I'm going to pull up the plan I may have you worked through it a little bit I'll I'll go some high level but just to get into some more of the the details and so we've got uh on your screen a cover page this is just a vicinity map showing where the site is in relation to um Middle School High School uh the center of town is over here uh to the southwest and this is a good example of what we'd call infill development so really touching on the master planning goals of of utilizing existing infrastructure and developing where we would argue development is is appropriate um why I mentioned the square footages of the Lots in the surrounding area it's not something where Mr Clay is looking to at the expense of the existing Frontage lot which he redu he could reduce it down to 20,000 Square F feet he's not looking to do that he's looking to have two reason sized and appropriately sized lots for that neighborhood which is I think important to remember we've got an existing conditions plan hair uh showing what that division would look like maybe I'll zoom out just a little bit so you can see the entire scope of it for context you've got uh this is the West uh East is Page North uh page up sorry uh left is North and then South is to the right you've got 47 Gate Lane over here about a 3200 foot footprint you've got 63 Gate Lane here and in 63 for a little bit of History this subdivision which is what it was where Red Gate Lane is had essentially like double Lots where you have this lot and then you had a lot back here as well as this and the one behind it um and so when you go back into history these Lots were actually combined and um was ultimately sold and Mr Clay acquired it uh as a flag lot to I think preserve um you know his buffer in this area so we've got the flag lot shown we've got the existing topography the existing trees in this area we've got the utilities down along the street uh water and sewer so it's public water public sewer we're not talking septic system we'll scroll down to the next one and then this is the proposed conditions plan and this is you know as as you know as as the board you know we've done plenty of flag Lots this is what the board asks for right they asked for grading they asked for what does the road look like uh give us an example of the the building footprint we did this on Cav we did this on on pomoy and those are both relatively recent for flag lots and so this is not an unusual plan and in fact I'd say it's a usual plan for what the the town looks at and approves with you know if you flip forward to the development application report that Miss Williams put together and some of those conditions that she has if there is a let's call it a substantial change as determined by The Building Commissioner someone's going to come back before the board at a public meeting um which again is usual if the change is so drastic uh in the building commissioner's eyes that it would warrant a public hearing then there's actually a modification of the special permit that would exist which again is completely typical for what how you deal with these flag lots and so you've got your and I'll zoom in a little bit here and Bucky if I step on my toes at all just jump in please um but we've got your Access Road here with your appropriate grade at the street and the 10% grade as you get into the site it's a 12T wide driveway there's a proposal for uh Evergreen vegetative screen on the Northerly side of the property you can see that there's existing vegetation there's the woods based on the survey the intent is to have vegetation in this area here um to scream to the greatest extent I think practical this 63 Redgate Lane you pull in there's additional veget ation minimum mature height of 10 ft as you travel into the driveway you've got electric on um one side and then I think Bucky CRA me for WR But Water and Sewer potentially on on the Northerly side of the driveway you come in you've got a a turnaround which we've got a slide showing that it's adequate for the fire Tru we've got some additional screening here one of the things to note is 68 Maplewood has cleared a significant amount of their own vegetation uh but regardless of that the applicant would propose to to have the approval conditioned on this plan which includes a minimum of 10 feet of 10 foot height at maturity for Evergreen vegetation all in these areas here um you've got your setback lines and you've got your infiltration basin one of the things to remember is single family homes do not need to meet the Massachusetts stormw Water standards so this is above and beyond I've worked with Bucky on many projects he's always very conservative his projects always work I'm very comfortable with what he has designed here and you'll see that there's a uh you know a a modest size home especially in relation to the neighborhood you've got a couple of decks a yard a flat flattened out area for the yard and then some grade down to this infiltration Basin down in the uh northeast corner of the property uh we've got some technical details which we don't necessarily we can we can pin them if you want and I don't know that the plan I have has the fire truck turn around um I think you have it but there is this Hammerhead where the fir truck can in fact pull forward pull back and then pull back down the driveway if it is necessary um lighting would be downcast and comply with the rules and regulations of the zoning board of appeals so dark sky compliant um we've submitted a a management plan as well as far as you know it to put into context this is a single family home and you don't have a lot of those concerns if it was a non-owner occupied duplex or a multifam or anything like that and so you know when we look at the possible conditions of approval that Miss Williams put together I think fine with all of them we think they make a lot of sense I've seen them pretty consistently implemented with other flag Lots uh that we've been through in the town and so I'll pause there Bucky if there's something else that that you want to add by all means please add it and if the board has any questions um let me know I I just have one question M attorney REI so if if I'm hearing you correctly there's an intent to build a single family house on this frag loot someday somebody is going to build a single family house I I I'm not representing that Mr Clay is going to be that person um it's likely to be someone else but that's somewhat the fundamental purpose of getting the flag lot permited is to sell it for somebody to build that single family home and so you know my my bigger Point attorney Henry is that this is typically how the flag lot approvals come is with some footprint like and I just I mean frankly just dealt with this on 82 pomoy we had an approval I want to say back in 2021 uh the lot sold and then sold again to the instant owner and I went back and forth with Mr MOA a little bit because nothing had been built but we talked about the lapse of the special permit or frankly the lack of lapse because there was a Reliance on the existence of that special permit as a flag lot and that's how it trans acted and similar for for Cav which is just around the corner from here where the existence of the flag lot and and that transaction is sufficient because that's what this is really doing is creating that lot and then in for the pomoy those new owners are just coming in there's no changes proposed to the plan and they're saying this is what we're going to build and so they're going to go and just get that building per so that's we see that same process here and if there were changes you know in conversation with Mr on 82 pomoy then you'd have to go through a modification process potentially depending upon the scope or extent of those changes uh that may require coming back to you at a public meeting or a public hearing uh we I understand um and we're not actually discussing pomoy we're discussing Red Gate so I think Mr Henry's question is actually relevant in one that I have written down does Mr clate intend at in any way to be the per the to build the home that is proposed or is the plan for this lot that Mr Clay will not build a home and and it will be sold to someone else yeah I I think the plan is that it will be sold for someone else okay so Mr Clay has no plans to build I'd say no at this point but um know things can change sure goe Jonathan yeah I was just going to say uh my first option at this point would be to to sell the lot just as I did previously uh to a to another buyer when it was pered by the board in 2016 uh but I do have the idea that it is possible that I would build a house and then sell the lot uh to someone as a completed house that is less likely then I will sell the lot and the future owner of the lot uh will build okay um and and Mr Clay just so I don't get in trouble could you and even though we know who you are could you tell me Tell the board your name and your address for the record please sure I'm Jonathan Clay I reside at 47 Redgate Lane in amorist and and this uh proposal for a building lot is presently part of my residential property right okay thank you um I have a couple of questions before I go to other um zba members um Mr REI you mentioned that the buffer would be 10 feet high at maturity and I would like to get an idea how long is it until maturity and how tall are the the uh plantings that you're committed to put in I know that if you find the tallest possible uh plants to put in it costs more than the shortest possible plant so what is the tallest possible new plant you could put in and how long will it take for that to reach 10 feet maturity or uh great question Bucky I'm probably going to punt it to you and and Jonathan as well but you know I don't think we're talking about a a foot tall Arbor VY here we're talking about something probably a little bit taller I just don't know budgetarily Jonathan and through Bucky if we're talking about three to four feet four to five feet um in what you're thinking I'll speak first and but Bucky please uh you feel welcome to participate um I would have the question as to when these plantings would be expected to be put put in but I assume it would be subsequent to construction of a house when all of the site work is done and there can't be any construction sort of as a as a last step as a visual barrier of a house that is built or is do I misunderstand that I don't I don't know specifically but I would think that the buffer plantings would be made in a very timely manner after at a minimum the completion of construction once construction is completed unless the ground is still frozen I would think you would be able to plant very promptly after there is no more construction as you're referring to damaging the plantings but I'm curious about how how tall I guess Mr Sparkle would know this perhaps best what is the tallest normally available um Evergreen whatever you're going to put in there that you can get in order to shorten the time to maturity obviously yeah we accept that not putting in a one foot Arbor Vy but slightly larger than a 1 foot Arbor viy is a one and A2 foot Arbor VY what's a 5- foot Arbor VY look like mhm um well I I I think from a practical standpoint um the a three to four foot tall specimen from ground up is is you know readily available and reasonably affordable also I will say that the the larger the species I obviously there's an exponential uh increase to the cost but also uh there's an increased chance of failure of the plants the bigger the plant the more likely it is to not survive the transplanting process um your your best Chance is going with the smallest plants and nurturing them in place from there but the the town typically has a a one gallon pot requirement uh two gallon pots are still reasonably priced and you you can get three to four feet out of that no problem three three to four feet and if we were more concerned about the height and less concerned about the price what is the what's the tallest successful plant you have seen is there such a thing as a five- foot plant that is likely to survive I'm sure there is such a thing as a five- foot plant that is likely to survive okay thank you I um Mr Meadows your hand is up I I am assumed that what we're discussing right now are conditions and that one of the conditions that we're talking about is that these plantings would be done in a timely manner at the conclusion of con of construction and that the plants would be pollinators right I should have known I should have know of course so um those are the two of the conditions that I I believe that we should include a and it really wouldn't be something that uh Mr Sparkle or Mr plate would have anything to do with oh right be they won't be developing because they will not be building the the house right exactly right okay so it could be a condition right um all right I have I have another one anybody anybody else with plants before I ask another question okay on the site plan I there is a 12-ft driveway and then it looks like a pretty minimal parking area in the back where the fire Tru which hopefully they will never need pulls in and then I presume that the garages will be on the right side of the house as we were looking at the diagram right what happens it it doesn't right so that's the parking area I presume that's the garage where your arrow is right it does not appear to me that there is much space to park cars other than the two cars that might pull into the two-car garage and maybe one or two more in that space you go down a 12T driveway and then uh you turn into this small area what provision is there for a normally functioning single family home when perhaps their extended family is visiting for a holiday of some sort Thanksgiving Christmas who knows what and they and six cars show up you can't park in the in the driveway that's a Transit point I think so where would there be extra parking to accommodate normal function sure so um I guess the the the nice thing you know typically when I'm in front of you we're talking about uh non- under occupied duplexes and and rentals and all of that here we're talking about a single family home and so you have those garage spaces but it's also a single family home and so if you have those two garage spaces and then folks park behind the garage and have to I mean I don't know about your family but uh we don't have a very big driveway some folks have to say I'm leaving other cars need to pull out and it would appear that there's probably sufficient area you know this is I think this is grass on the side of the 12 feet I I would imagine that folks could hole off if they needed to you know in in these areas with their tires off of the uh the driveway to allow sufficient area still to pass and repass along that driveway um Tom if I could add on to that um the the area of the Hammerhead turnaround is almost 70 ft long um if we were to do angled parking there we'd be able to get an additional half dozen cars in that kind of space in addition to whatever was in the garage um and there is to the South a relatively flat area where if Vehicles were uh and R runes could certainly park on the grass additionally this this site should be able to get uh eight or 10 cars parked off the street no problem which is I think better than the many single family driveways uh would be able to provide for it okay all right thank you uh again I I'm assuming that we are we're this is not the actual house we are not voting on a house that this this is a theoretical position of a house that when it gets built may be considerably different than what we're seeing here and and consequently we have no idea what parking facilities there may be what there may not be it could be a five car garage uh I think we're we're getting our ahead of ourselves at this point I'm trying to discuss a particular garage for a particular house when this is not what's going to be built we're not voting on a house as far as I know we're only voting on the possibility there may be a house there we're only voting a flag lot is that not correct Mr Rey and I guess my question to you Mr Meadows would be so then if you were to approve it with that in mind would that allow then someone to come in because single family homes are allowed by right in the zoning district and just to go to the Building Commissioner and submit a building permit and get a building permit for whatever house they've designed because I assume that that's what's going to happen we're we're not we're just voting on a flag lot we're not voting on a house yeah if I mean if that's if that's what the board wants to vote on to allow the flexibility of a new owner to just be able to submit a building permit to the Building Commissioner to get a single family home approval by all means we'd accept that unless Mr Clay really would like to use this design and that's what he's asking for uh no this was the the purpose of this design is to show the the size basic confirmation and location and Contours of a potential house uh I would assume that if someone wanted to build a house as I think you mentioned with a five car garage presumably a house much larger than this they would need to come back to you but this is not the precise house that I would expect to be built right so that could be a condition I'm not certain how it would be written but the condition would be that we could put a condition or I'm not even certain if we can put a condition for a single family house of a particular type we did have one flag lot recently in which we did see the actual house design um before it was allowed to be built um that was that the one on Shay I believe so yeah right I remember it and I don't know if we want to put that same type of condition here I I I'm putting the question up I'm not saying that it should be one way or another necessarily I I don't necessarily think that we need to add the condition of a house because again to your point Mr Meadows whomever is going to build a house needs to go and get a building permit and deal with that process exactly now right you have your depiction here says 2800 square feet can we is that a commitment to are you are you asking for permission to build a 2800 squ foot uh house or are you just saying a single family house size to be determined I think we would appreciate the latter I think this is an example showing that a 2800 foot footprint house could fit very well onto this on this lot and a 2800 square foot footprint that's one story high is 2800 square fet that footprint two stories is a a 5600 Square F foot much different kind of building there are are you um is your application would your application allow for a twostory house with this footprint sure sure or I mean kind of stepping back to what Mr Meadows had said um the board doesn't have a lot of jurisdiction on single family homes you know as long as you meet the dimensional requirements and so if someone wanted to put a because what you're doing is saying this area land has sufficient area meets the other requirements uh as a flag lot and so I mean as you all know there's there's Frontage Lots which say you have Frontage on a public way with sufficient minimum lot Frontage to be considered a building lot and and the board doesn't then look and say well but tell us you know how big a house you can actually put there and the Building Commissioner frankly doesn't say well you can only put a house that's 4,800 square feet like that doesn't happen um and so similarly we would say that this flag lot should go by the same like are just creating a new lot that should then in the future be under the same um kind of Building Commissioner jurisdiction for what the house could or would look like alternatively this could be a 12200 foot house that or a 2400 foot house but vertical right it's it's not the house that you're approving it's the lot with the the driveway and the access and I would say the vegetation hearing what you're saying about the conditions and the house is up to whether it be Mr clate or a potential purchaser in the future of what that looks like within the confines of lot coverage building setbacks and and building code as a I'll just say because I'm on the roller coaster right now as a practical matter uh building costs are quite high and so if you were to have a 5600 square foot house at about you know $400 a square foot plus the cost of land you're talking at a 2 something million dollar house for this area which a certain extent wouldn't that be terrific for the tax base and uh helping everybody else's value appreciate so I think what we're asking for is the lot to be approved and then let the building code and Building Commissioner deal with what the house is I I understand I'll tell you what my concern is I haven't I'm just thinking about all these various things there are abuts who have vigorously expressed opposition to this as being potentially intrusive into their their way of life and I am wondering about ways that we could address those concerns while at the same time not overstepping our legal Authority if we can do something also you know I'm I understand what you're saying about building costs but a block away from where I live on Sunset some people just paid a million dollars for a house and are putting $2 million into it so there's there's $3 million sitting on Sunset and it's not impossible that someone would spend $2 million so what you're describing is not altogether far-fetched and impossible and I'm trying to find some sort of a balance of uh addressing the concerns of the abutters without opening it up that there's unlimited virtually un unlimited potential to build here depending on what somebody's willing to spend I can't believe someone's spending $3 million on Sunset but they are and it's not my business so you know is is is there a way that you can propose that your application would address the abutters concerns without opening it up that somebody could build a 5,000 foot house yeah I think I mean the way that we've thought about uh how to address those concerns is vegetation uh building sighting uh storm water right so we're we're trying to think of those things that can be nuisances and mitigating those before they become nuisances I think the board would have a very difficult time putting some size restriction on what could be built here if it otherwise would comply because then you know going down that path what happens you say well it can only be x amount of square feet and then Mr Clay says that's very unfair I'd like to appeal that and and not saying that he would but then we appeal it and we say to a court Hey listen all they're doing is approving a flag lot but then they're also telling us that we can only build this size house that seems like overstepping I mean 483 doesn't allow um the board to look at like the interior of single family homes and and that translates a bit to the exterior meaning what is the layout you know if we were here for a a non-owner occupied duplex or even an owner occupi duplex I think we're having a different conversation entirely because we're talking about the the use on the lot here this use is allowed by right we're just talking about someone the lot and so from our perspective the only way to address that certainly is with what we can do to the lot and so that's where you know this the the the lot design in the vegetative screening that we're proposing um is I think the best we can do with something like this okay I understand are there any other questions from board members I actually have one more if no one else has one um Mr REI you mentioned that because it would be a single family home it can't be a non-owner occupied duplex which I acknowledge once it's built it could it could it be a non-owner occupied rental could it be four students renting this house it could yeah it could just like 63 Redgate could be for students just like 68 Maplewood just like 47 Red Gate right yes okay all right does anyone else have any questions board members no wow okay um do any of the applicants want to make any more comments before we open it to um to public comment I think we're happy to respond okay um Miss Williams public comment I think is next am I correct that's correct okay does any do you have any indication of anybody who wants to say anything no one has raised their hand yet but let's give it a minute I only see four attendees yeah do you see more I only have four and no one has expressed that they would like to speak okay fine in that case Mr chair yes sir uh I believe in the beginning you did not indicate what materials we had received for this you're right I didn't um okay Miss Williams you sent me a list earlier you sent me a link that I couldn't get so would you all I have is the lighting submission do you want me to include the resending of material from May is as well or do you want me to just include I'd like I'd like to see the packet I think I have I have materials let me see okay hold on do the do the other board members have everything from may you have everything um Mr Henry my packet includes um I I think the last updates from I think today I have 13 items I didn't get them why don't I have them this was the email I sent earlier when we were on the phone Mr chair yeah well let me see if I have it but I don't think I have it with Redgate Lane materials oh I have those that's the letters okay okay yes I I'm not sure if you're required to but I know I know that Mr judge always lists them out before we begin so I'm happy to do what he does we have a um an an Earthworks estimation a project application report a project summary from Mr Sparkle's company with specific findings and of yeah project summary and site description we have a letter from Yale first and Jennifer Mack um expressing their concerns we have the application form the management plan and the site plans which were already substantially shared with us by Mr REI and Mr Sparkle and we have letters from a number from Kurt wise and Rachel Browdy and another another two letters from Kurt wise and Rachel Browdy dated November 1st and August 20 November November 1st 2018 sorry and August August 23rd 2016 and an updated letter no that's the same one November 1st 2018 same letter and then I have the new project application form so and also the town of ammer what is this I never saw a special permit from 2019 right okay so those are all of the documents that we have submitted okay let me get out of this all right Mr Meadows that was the list that's everything I have I just just in case I right no I'm that's why I asked you to remind me if I omit something thank you actually I appreciate that wel so are there any uh so um Miss Williams nobody is are there any members of the public want to speak um now we have Miss green bomb with her hand up so I will promote her to panelist okay Miss green bom if you're there I only see your name but you're you're oh can you hear me now yes so um welcome and please give your name and address for the record okay H the greenbound 298 montue Road and I just wanted to make a comment about the my experience with flag Lots as a panelist is that you only have jurisdiction over whether or not it complies with the requirements for a flag lot in the sing bylaw which means does it have the buildable circle in it yes it does is the flag lot 40 feet wide etc etc um all these other things you're talking about to appease the neighbors are IR relevant from my experience that's just what I wanted to say thank you very much for the comment that's good to hear get guidelines thank you anyone else Miss Williams no no no other hands okay in that case I would suggest that we leave the public hearing while keeping it open and move to a public meeting and I would entertain a motion that we do that do I hear a motion to that effect so moved thank you Mr Meadows do I hear a second I I saw the muted face of Philip with one L white and I'll accept that as a gesture of intent uh the is there any discussion hearing none the vote occurs on the motion on roll call the chair votes I Mr unmuted White hi Mr Henry hi Mr Meadows hi the motion passes for to zero so we will move to the public meeting during which the board members can express their sentiment or thoughts about any of this board members what does anyone want to express I I I can go first um go ahead thank you my position my position hasn't changed from we first heard this um this has been permitted now three times in the past nothing has changed um it meets the qualifications what's been built on there that we have building rules that whomever buys the slot has to comply with I think that is irrelevant and not should not be part of this conversation um with a Building Commissioner who oversees that um again this lot been approved many times still me qualifications I I don't think we should not approve it okay thank you Mr Meadows anything you want to weigh in with no I agree with Mr Henry oh you do okay Mr White uh yeah yeah it looks like we're at least the three of us are in consensus in a consens right um I have concerns mostly in response to the neighbors however under these circumstances and with the input I hear from everyone else I am willing to accept that it is really not the perview or jurisdiction of the zba to put conditions on this um I know I would like that the buffer plantings would be as tall as possible and be pollinators not just to make Mr Meadows happy but it because it makes sense uh I would like to I would like to protect the neighbors as best we can but I am m a little bit reluctantly persuaded that this really is just as Mr Henry says not for us to try and determine so I can also go along with the sentiment of my three colleagues here um anybody else want to say anything because if not we can go on to to the next thing and I will try not to shock everyone with a no vote at the end um um okay so now the next thing we do I believe not being Mr judge and going from notes we read the findings is that correct Miss Williams yes okay all right findings I'm getting there all right give me just a moment if you don't mind because I had I printed this all out okay specific findings required uh section 10.38 10.38 and 10. 381 The Proposal is suitably located in the neighborhood in which it is proposed as deemed appropriate by special permit granting Authority the staff review says that that is the case 10. 382 10. 383 10. 385 The Proposal would not constitute a nuisance due to air and water pollution flood noise dust vibration lights and other other annoying things and it protects the adjoining premises against detrimental or offensive uses of the site the staff review says that residential use typically does not generate nuisances lights will be downcast one single family resident residents would not generate meaningful hazards or inconvenience and I believe all of those things all those requirements would have to pass the building inspector and the and would have to be satisfied and is not up to us 10. 384 adequate and appropriate facilities would be provided for the prop ER operation of the proposed use new construction parking utilities and refuse collection would be adequate says the staff 10. 386 The Proposal ensures that it is in conformance with the parking and sign regulations and staff says it is 10. 387 The Proposal provides convenient and safe vehicular and pedestrian movement within the site and in relation to adjacent streets property or improvements if the special permit granting Authority deems The Proposal likely to have a significantly adverse impact on traffic patterns it shall be permitted to require a traffic impact report and the uh staff says that the proposed driveway provides adquate vehicular movement to and from the site including emergency vehicles 10. 388 The Proposal ensures adequate space for the off Street loading and unloading of vehicles Goods materials and equipment and only residential and general delivery vehicles we use the parking and drive so I guess this means the UPS truck can get up the driveway adequately and that's all they're concerned about this does not deal I presume with construction vehicles but that is not us is that right Mr REI correct okay um 10. 389 The Proposal provides adequate methods of disposable and or storage of sewage Refuge recyclables and other waste uh and the new the new dwelling would be connected to uh Municipal Water and Sewer will the waste to the Sewer be pumped uphill a good question for Bucky yes uh the drawings do show a pumped Force man the we're definitely downhill from the municipal sewer so um so in in the event of electrical outage there is no Su sewage movement right that is correct there would be some amount of storage volume void space in the tank um itself that is a requirement typically it's one day's flow so you could be without power or 24 hours and still use water as as usual although typically people tend to scale back once they realize they don't have power can we make a condition I would have brought this up before but I didn't think of it can we make it a condition that they have a backup generator that runs the sewage pump um I I I will say that pumps themselves have extremely high amperage draw requirements it it would be a sizable generator um I have a 20 kilowatt backup generator on my house that runs the entire house including air conditioning uh and and my question is what kind of amperage draw does that handle because a a modest pump is going to be something like 15 or 18 amps while running start up maybe more than 20 amps that is a a very serious load uh for an electrical device and typically exceeds most residential generators okay well my generator puts out 20 kilowatts but yeah my question was amperage there it's it's a slightly different measurement right yeah okay all right well I'll have to think about that then um okay you're downhill you're pumping up okay so the staff the traction recycling bins will be stored in the building or a shed storm water management is provided 10.39 the proposal ensures protection from flood hazards as stated in section 3228 staff review said the site is not located in the fpz zoning District the site poses no flood Danger 10391 The Proposal the proposal protects to the extent feasible unique or important natural historic or Scenic features staff says that being a modestly modestly sloped site trying and say that fast the construction of any dwelling on this site will clear the majority of the Woods 10392 The Proposal provides adequate Landscaping including the screening of adjacent res residential uses the staff review says that landscape plannings are proposed at key locations to screen the new building and diminish the impact of headlights on nearby homes 10393 The Proposal provides protection of adjacent Properties by minimizing the intrusion of lighting including parking lot and exterior lighting through use of Cut Off Lumin AES light Shields lowered of light poles uh staff review says all lights will be residential scale and con and downcast and I know that there are plenty of regulations covering this one 10. 394 The Proposal avoids to the extent feasible impact on steep slopes flood planes Scenic views and it does not contain any features so that is not applicable the 10.39 5 The Proposal does not create disharmony with respect to the terrain staff review the the future architectural design will be per the next owner's proposal there are no historic districts onor near the site 10. 396 um The Proposal provides screening for a number of things none of which will be on this site so it does not apply the propo 10397 The Proposal provides adequate recreational facilities um open law and the staff says that open law and woods are appropriate amenities for a single family home 10398 the proposal is in harmony with the general purpose and intent of this bylaw and the staff says that it is so okay that's the end of the findings any comments from board members other than me and my generator no okay um I could um Mr chair maybe just the I don't know that you need to go through it line by line but just a generic finding that it meets the flag 6.3 the flag lot requirements you've gone through the specific findings I don't know if you want just a general finding that I know Miss Williams had put them together like line by line you can probably just do a a general ah what we're here for yeah article six on page seven we don't want to miss that especially if it will get me in trouble um FL Lots 687 page eight oh yeah page eight was above the signings P okay and you could even go back I mean now that we're talking about you can go back one more if just you want to keep scrolling up because in your public hearing notice you also mentioned 5.10 with the fill so if you go through 5.10 6.3 and you've already gone through 10.38 that gets you all the findings that you need to make for this application okay all right I'll do that so this is finding 7.0 General requirements uh two parking spaces for each dwelling unit shall be provided unless the permit granting Authority determines that an altern alternative ratio ensuring adequate parking use will be provided the staff reviews that the applicant States the parking will be located in the garage there is also available parking at the end of the driveway yes 7.1 parking spaces for cars shall be on a paved surface such as concrete by two minutes asphalt masonry pavers oil and stone and and the staff said the driveway will be constructed with a bituminous concrete surface 7.1 design standards and Landscape standards for Paving for the purposes of this bylaw a paved parking surface shall be considered to be one which has a prepared subgrade minimum of 12in depth and other technical information the staff review says that it will comply 7102 slope parking areas will shall have grades not to exceed 5% driveways used exclusively for Ingress or egress shall not exceed 12% and um both of these conditions are met 5.10 filling of land any filling of land accessory to the development of property which raises the ex the existing grade of any portion of a property 5,000 square ft or more in area by an average of 2 feet or more or any such filling which raises the existing grade of any portion of a property 2,000 square ft or more by an average of 5T or more require a special permit uh the staff review says that the finished grade of the areas impacted by fill will not be in excess of the natural angle of repose of the materials and that no surface no slope created by the filling operation shall be finished at a grade in excess of the natural angle of repose of the material so this complies 5101 or filled areas which are not to be built upon within a year shall upon completion of the operation be covered with not less than 4 Ines of Lone and uh staff says this will be a condition of the permit 5102 no permit for the filling of land shall be issued if such filling will endanger Public Health constitute a nuisance result in a detriment to the normal use of the property cause significant erosion or result in traffic hazards and this petition will not result in any of those issues section 6.3 flag Lots uh the area of this flag lot exclusive of the access strip shall be at least double the minimum lot area and the staff review says the minimum lot is 20,000 ft the proposed flag lot would have 40,000 so it would comply Mr REI pointed that out before 6.33 each lot shall have an access strip with a minimum Street Frontage of 40t and the staff review shows a minimum a street Frontage of 41.294104 40 ft at its narrowest point it will be 200 ft in length at no point does the driveway exceed a 45° angle 6.34 the width of that portion of the lot where the principal building is to be constructed known as the building area shall equal or exceed the distance normally required for Street Frontage in that District staff review says the minimum um Street Frontage is 120 ft the building area is measured around 160 ft at its greatest extent 6.35 that portion of a flag lot within which the principle building is to be located shall be considered the building area the building area of a flag lot shall be capable of containing a circle whose diameter is equal to or greater than the minimum standard Street Frontage required in the district the staff says that the minimum Street Frontage is 120 ft the building circle with a diameter of 120 ft is able to fit in the flag lot so it complies 6.36 there shall be no more than three flag Lots adjacent to each other and there are no others so this does not apply 6.37 access to the lot shall meet the requirements of section 7.7 C below okay 7.7 flag Lots 7.1 7.71 unimpeded access shall be provided 7.72 the driveway shall uh the driveway within the access stripper easan shall have adequate drainage and shall not exceed five% grade within 50 ft of the intersection of the driveway 7.73 in all instances where either two or three flag lots are created with their access that would not apply there isn't another one review says there is UN unimpeded access it's provided the driveway shall not exceed 5% within 50 ft of the roadway it has adequate drainage and 7.73 does not apply as we said Mr reing are you satisfied that we covered those why thank you okay I'm sure you meant to say beautifully done you read my mind I know I know okay so possible conditions of approval not including a backup generator number one the project shall be built and maintained according to the approved plans and application package any changes shall be reviewed by The Building Commissioner to determine if submission to the zoning board of appeals is necessary said J said changes may be reviewed and or approved by the zba at a public meeting or if the changes are significant enough said changes shall require a formal modification of the permit for that one Mr chair if I could just based upon the the conversations that we've had I wonder if it makes sense after the first sentence to add an exclusion for the house footprint which uh shall only be required to comply with building code so it would just read the project shall be built and maintained according to the approved plans and application package except for the house footprint which shall only be required to comply with building code and would just suggest it because in the future if if it's Mr Moore or someone else and they look at the plan and they say well this is this is what the footprint shows this is and you're changing it based on this conversation that we've had about the the lot being approved um I don't think the footprint is something I mean we've talked about it but from what I've heard from the frankly balance of the board members it's not something that we should look to regulate so that would be just I think that's my only suggestion with the conditions that are proposed and that would that would reflect I'm asking that the submitted site plan which shows a footprint would clearly not be the the footprint that we are voting to approve that it could be any footprint that complies not just the footprint on your Di that's the intent yes okay as I Look to this little tiny picture of Mr Henry I what I would have removed the condition completely um again it it it suggests that there's a project pending to be built and that's not what we're doing we're approving a flag lot that has to and whoever is going to build has to comply with her building codes and go through the commissioner so again it's I I feel as it's almost redundant um to be there because again anything that's been build has to be approved by the Building Commissioner anyway but that's a requirement it's a requirement no matter what we say right yes right okay uh do we then do we want to take this out while we're on it this is the last business of the evening what do you think Mr Meadows you're nodding yes okay Mr White you okay with that I'm good with it okay all right so um takeout number one man we were just killing the number ones tonight aren't we I know and somebody was overeager and we are just so restrained it's it's a delight all right number two all exterior lighting shall be designed and installed so as to be shielded or downcast and to avoid light trespass um that's also a role I don't see any reason to that we have to take it out it may be a little redundant but that one's okay I think or do you hate it also Mr Henry I I I had it as a remove [Laughter] also aren't all these conditions these These are requirements yeah these are requirements so what do we right so we'll take these are this is from the town all right so we're getting rid of number two I think number three is important we want to be able to find the place so don't we want really good Street numbers no we don't care all right we we'll get rid of we'll get rid of number three also un access one through three are gone number four was in another thing already unimpeded access across the a the access strip right didn't we already do that I was okay with that one I was okay with that one you want to leave that in yeah okay I am okay with that one stay all right before the before the issuance of any building permits the the applicant shall obtain sewer and other permits I don't see how you can build without those things can we take that out yeah yeah yes all right five Bites the Dust uh all on-site storm water features shall be maintained in good operational condition I think we should leave that in was it that involves the retention Basin or whatever at the bottom parking shall occur on improved surfaces only um that was covered in 7 point something but we could leave that in trash receptacles shall be screened from the public right away that we want to leave in because we leave that in everything all filled areas which are not to be built upon within one year shab on completion be covered with that was in another section I remember reading that elsewhere so we can take that one out as being redundant we can take out nine so we're leaving in four six seven and eight we want to take out the one about the Phill it's fine to leave that I know that in the finding which you had read it suggested that you could make the finding because it was a condition so we're fine with keeping that as a condition okay so leave in number nine all right so 46789 we're leaving in we're taking out the rest and and so maybe one request to Jinta is just you know so at some point somebody's going to come forward to to seek a building permit and I just somewhere in the decision make it clear that the the board is approving this as a flag lot and it they're not wedded to this plan because I just wouldn't want a Building Commissioner to say like no this is the plan that was attached to the approval and so you have to build it according to this right and that's why however we can structure that so it's in the decision so that I or somebody else can point to and say no no no it's not based on this plan it can be kind of whatever Bas because this is a flag lot um as long as that's in there I'm fine with it isn't that inherent to what you've been talking about that all we're doing is approving a flag lot and as Mr Meadows pointed out the the drawing of the house location and size is practically irrelevant and I just want to make sure that that is embodied here because so I mean you know how often I'm in front of you typically there's a condition that says it'll be built substantially in accordance with the plans and it doesn't say that here and I would say that its absence is telling but my fear would be that some building inspector commissioner if it's not Rob um would look and say well this is the plan that was approved as part of this permit and so this is the plan you have to construct under so all I'm asking for is to embody what Mr Meadows has and Mr Henry and kind of everybody has said and that's what I'm asking just just somewhere to make sure that it's clear in the decision so that we can say no no no no no this the flag lot was approved not this plan so somebody may come in with a a different plan which is okay because the flag lot's already approved okay I'm okay with it how's Mr Henry feel I thought that's the reason why we took out number one because number one was specific to a project and we didn't want that um yeah so I understand the turn Read's position and it makes sense um I don't know if people would comfortable say you know this permit is specific to the flag lot not any structure being built in a flag lot and that has to go through proper um buildin commissioner channels okay you like that language added to this proposed well not that specific that was vague um um but yeah this permit is specific to the flag lot and not any structure being built on the flag lot okay or not or not to any structure depicted on the submitted plan yeah anything built on the lot has to submit to something yeah any structure must be approved by billing commissioner is approving the granting of for the flag lot and only the flag lot proposed plan in this application was theoretical and any future Builders are not you like the word beholden not beholden to the proposed okay that's fine I I don't want to disappoint you on the backup generator but is do are there requirements for backup generators any other place in town where this situation occurs I have no idea I don't either I I specifically can speak to other um applications that I've done in town where there were pump systems required similar to this that was a a sixun development on Prospect Street um behind CVS there's a pump system there uh no backup generator was required that system does have built into it uh 24 hours Reserve hydraulic capacity which is the you know the the fail safe hopefully um if um we do lose power in those situations I'm I'm does 24hour reserve hydraulic capacity mean just a 24-hour period or 24 hours of use it is typically based on um the title five so if you have three bedrooms Title 5 says you have to have low for 150 gallons per bedroom three bedrooms is 450 gallons of uh void space in your system uh the reality is when the power goes out usage goes down as well so while it would you know if if you were running full-blown you might use uh that get that water up that void space in a day usually it will last for two three or four days days um so having all all pump systems come with some amount of Reserve capacity just because they do will lose power and this is not an uncommon thing so they're always built in so so it's not a 24hour period it's 24 no no it's just the average daily flow and it's a design flow and the design flow is roughly two to three times actual flow so you there's wiggle room built into it understood and and Mr Sparkle on lot on this specific lot if a house was built approximately where it's drawn on the plan but we're not holding anybody to it if they would lose power for an extended period of time and the system would back up where would the waste go if it goes into their basement then um that's fine where's where does the waste go when the pump's not working that will depend on the plumbing layout for the house um it would there would be various answers to that depending on how the house was constructed is the reality but you know if if it overflowed beyond the house um everything goes downhill right it would be roughly 400 feet or so before it got to any environmental sensitive area um which is um a good a good amount of space right for infiltration into the Earth which under emergency circumstances is you know considered generally acceptable if a septic system we discharging to the surface usually that condition goes on for six months to 12 months before it gets repaired and that's that's how we manage these things in the wild I see okay but even before it escape the house it would overflow into the house I would think right it's quite likely yes okay so I should let go of the generator is what we all think right okay all right I'm a team player um okay so panel members are we satisfied with the conditions may may ask a question certainly Mr Henry so on the 2019 approval it it gave two years and we're back here in 2024 um do we have the ability to go beyond two years no do you attorney read I don't think so it's uh let me look at your bylaw so the state law allows you to go longer but I think your bylaw requires two years but I just want to check that out for certain here let me see as well yeah 10.37 has special permit granted under this article shall lapse within two years of the date that it is filed unless it has been both recorded and substantial construction or use thereunder has commenced within this period And so then I'll somewhat hearken back to my story about 82 pomoy and also Canton which Bucky designed Canton as well once uh so if in the future Mr Clay were to convey this flag lot to someone else that would be deemed to be exercised you a structure would not have to be built on it which we we don't even have to go down the road of previous ones which that have happened to and whether or not they're still in existence what we'll talk about now is that would be sufficient a conveyance and so but you can only put two years on we can come back and ask for an extension before the expiration of the two years that's not I've seen that before and that's not unusual um but I think your hands are tied a bit with the the amount of time you can have for laps thank you okay all right so we have read the findings and the conditions so I would Mr chair yes ma'am um we did add the condition about the plantings is this every is everyone okay with this this last one ah right well you they had said that they would be 10t tall at maturity mhm I don't know how to word that it's a concern I don't know what I don't actually know what to do I would like I'd like since Mr Sparkle said that five- foot plants are likely to survive that taller than that may not survive and I'm more concerned learned about the buffering than the initial cost to the Builder or homeowner I would I would be willing I'd be interested in putting a a five foot minimum initial planting in there I just make a so if I could because now we're talking about pollinators and those a five foot you know think of Holly Mr Meadows because that's what I think we've we've learned over time right but a five foot Holly is going to be a significant size and expense versus a 5 foot Arbor VY which is probably much more reasonable and so that's my only like I I don't think there's opposition to pollinators or or Evergreen pollinators but I just think we need to be sensitive to the 5- foot requirement for pollinators versus uh the five foot requirement for something like arbores and you know Bucky I don't know if you've got more thoughts or Insight on that but you know if there's a down like a one gallon Holly or a two gallon would make more sense here because we're now using pollinators right um I thank you for bringing that point up Tom uh the you one thing is with this is very species dependent and and some species grow faster than others you might find that you could plant a very tall species is very slow growing and you'll get much less screening over the next 10 or 20 years than if you planted a smaller species that was much faster growing um so uh there there's a whole bunch of variety in the natural world here and you know light and and shade and water also impact a whole bunch of species um possibilities so maybe if we said uh I mean either we could talk about pot size and gallons which is how nurseries think about this and uh they don't talk about the height of the plant they talk about you know basically the size of the root ball um uh and perhaps if we said something like uh the plantings to be as as uh tall as practicable and um instead of possible because you could spend $250,000 and bring in a very large tree that's possible and then spend another $100,000 trying to keep it alive over the next five years so uh practicable might be better term and perhaps um 50% pollinators we have a lot of vegetation that we're talking about installing here and if we were all a monolithic Bank of exactly the same thing it's actually less attractive in my opinion than if there were some variety so if we said 50% pollinators that would still be dozens of of large pollinator species and then we could intermix them in a more naturalized way that allowed some varieties some landscape appeal and and make it much more attractive to look at so it wasn't just a a a big wall of consistency and Mr sler um you may Mr sler you may like condition eight from the previous approval um that specifies um you know screening consist of native trees and other vegetation shall be planted along the north and south proper line is identified um and maintaining perpetuity so that condition is there for to provide screening I'm not sure if you may that may satisfy your your requirements um it doesn't it doesn't mention height but it's there I can say that my my nextd door neighbor we took down all the trees between myself and my nextdoor neighbor he's the chair of the landscape architecture and planning department at the University he put in all pollinators two years ago they're a variety of plantings in there and they're all pollinators they screen his house from my house completely I I don't see any problem putting all pollinators in there are lots of different types of pollinators all right what do what do we think you want to make it all pollinators I Mr Mr Clay has his hands up yeah M Mr Clay yes hi thank you uh for recognizing me couple of questions about this just to to offer into the conversation uh one of the areas that was on the plan that was designated for this planting of a bar barer is along what would become my residential property and I don't care about the screening at all so I don't know how why that request how that would pertain to that that particular boundary but the other thing is this seems to suggest that the lot during construction is completely denuded of all the trees that are there it's pretty heavily forested right now and if that doesn't occur if a if a Vernal barrier of existing mature trees is there along some of what becomes these property line would these new trees be planted beyond that Vernal barrier in in the mid feathered into into those trees uh because they may not all be removed so I I'm confused about that I think here are Butters in one of the heands um that was concerned specifically um there was one that had two children and I think there was that great concern about when you start Excavating then there's no shield and they run I think they played close to your property or on your property if I remember correctly and those that concerned from them specifically that with no um barrier that was concerned for their safety if I remember from that public comment is this during construction or subsequently when there's a house there I think they mentioned during construction I believe you're right so that would be a s simp a different question yeah example a construction fence could be built during construction but when it's done now there's a house there now there may be a barrier of trees that were never removed uh on the property of the new house where and why does this do these new plantings go in well let me share I'm just going to uh just sent this maybe steal your screen just to show you the what we've got here so we're talking in in context a little bit more if you can see so right right we're we've shown Evergreen here Evergreen here Evergreen here this is that area that I think Mr clade had said uh let's not require it here because I'm the abutter and I don't care um and then I think his point here and jonath correct me if I'm wrong is uh we may be taking down trees to plant this vegetative screen in in my words now does that make a ton of sense to do is it is it better to leave some undisturbed you know buffer along this Northerly side for the for the distance of the setback you know from this corner down here where you just leave what exists um and then I would think it know we'd have to think about a craft this because right now depending upon um the location of the house do you just leave it to the setback here as well um or do you put in some vegetative screening and and maybe it's if there is clearing within the sidey yard front and you know whatever the setbacks within the setback um as identified on the plan then appropriate pollinator vegetation shall be planted and maintained uh to effectuate appropriate screening something where if it's there why disturb it why disturb the natural environment if it's not there or it's going to be taken down then put something up uh to screen so and I know that's different than what Mr Henry is talking about with um kids in in trespass but you know what we're trying to think about is that that screening so I think it's worth the conversation because for Success right as I'm thinking about it now for success of these do you have to take down the trees and is that something that the neighbors would would ultimately like or that this house would ultimately like to take down those trees because I know in previous permit I think there had been some requirement that there's like a no touch in this area and correct Maybe answer is just to do it no disturb here on the North property line there were no permitted there were no trees permitted to be removed unless there were a threat um to Public Health that's condition number eight on the prior um special permit so that's this line here I think that makes a lot of sense um and then do we extend it I mean I'll ask you Jonathan and and Bucky do you extend it to here and then if you do take something down here you have to put in some pollinator vegetation I I think that's trying to be sens sensitive to what it is that people want uh I think that I think we need to try and find language that does that that either the trees are there's a no touch Zone and the trees are there or if they are not there because they have to be removed or they're felled accidentally or however they come down then you need to fill that in but to require planting when you might have 20 fet literally 20 feet of forest I'm not sure what the language is what that does that so could we could we put a condition that said that any any plantings that are required to buffer the view from the neighbors would be pollinators and that would not specify that any spaces had to be created so Mr Meadows gets his pollinators and we're not forcing anybody to take anything down is that Reon I would say I would say definitely don't force them to take anything down no I don't mean I don't right no I mean it that if if as you say if something comes down because it's a hazard or it's dead or for whatever reason something needs to be removed and a space exists where buffer has to be planted in order where something has to be planted in order to accomplish a buffer that new plantings would be pollinators I think that's fair especially since Mr Meadows knows very large toll po pollinators exist so is that reasonable to everybody Mr Meadows to me yes yeah okay Mr White yeah M Mr Henry you okay with that yes Mr chair okay all right so can you can you make the language that if it this look at that you already made the language well done okay so can I get rid of this um I think if you get rid of that then we still have to yeah I think that's probably yeah you can probably get rid of that and then the only question is do you say anything about I this condition may do it if additional plantings are required in order to achieve or maintain a buffer new planting shall be pollinators do we want to keep the in about tall as practical and 50% pollinators or just take out as tall or just keep the part about being as tall as practical and that should come after I think I think tall is practical at least expresses a sentiment that we want to protect the the neighbors view I would leave that in tall is practical gives whoever's building a big fat loophole to driveth through so I don't think that's being overbearing to have something in there expressing a uh a desire to protect the neighbors okay so we have six conditions in all right okay all right anything else given that I have backed off my generator and my tall plantings is there anything else that anybody wants to bring up from the panel okay so we are currently in a public meeting where we read all of this we have conditions we have findings and conditions are all R so um we could at this point entertain a motion to approve the findings and conditions as amended is there such a motion impending here so move Mr chair thank you Mr Henry is there a second oh I think I already heard Mr Meadows we the motion is moved and seconded is there any discussion the vote occurs on a roll call the chair votes I Mr Henry I Mr Meadows I Mr White I the vote is 4 to zero the motion passes and I believe that the next vote is on a motion to approve the application for a flag lot with the conditions Mr REI are you ready to go through with this vote not knowing what I'm going to say I'm willing to roll the dice okay uh so can I hear a mo can I hear a motion um to approve the application for the flag lot with the findings and conditions as amended included in our ruling so moved thank you Mr Meadows uh do I hear a second second second Mr Henry uh the any discussion then the vote occurs on a roll call does the chair have to vote first I'd like to keep Mr re as uncomfortable no last the chair votes I Mr Henry I Mr White I Mr Meadows I the vote is for pardon me thank you I didn't I didn't announce that that it pass C down the vote is four to zero and it looks like it passes and it passes so the application to establish a flag lot is approved congratulations Mr Clay and your your support staff here and um you're it's approved congratulations we wish you success and a successful non-intrusive non-annoying development next to EUR a Butters thank you you can go you can go take a nap Mr reading finally I know I know all right so the next now that that's finished you may want to close the public hearing I don't know that you did that good good thinking I think thank you everybody is inlisted to keep me focused since I have not done this as many times as chair judge we um now um can close the public meeting which will also I believe close the public hearing does it I would I would just say I'm GNA close the public hearing just close the public hearing I can do that okay then I'm going to close the public hearing on my own without any help from anybody no you still have to vote on it oh we do have to vote on it oh then I do need help okay all right so do I hear a motion to close the public hearing moov by Mr Henry second second second second by Mr White excellent the vote occurs on a roll call to um oh any discussion okay the vote occurs on a roll call to close the public hearing um Mr uh chair votes I Mr White I Mr Meadows I Mr Henry hi the vote is 4 to Zer the motion passes the public hearing is closed now we have to close the public meeting wait is that a was that you want to say something or no I was waving you're you're fine you've closed the public hearing that's all that we care about waving goodbye I'm waving goodbye you can goodbye done what you need by Mr bye bye have a nice evening see you soon thank you you too um now we can vote to close the public meeting I believe I don't think you have to I don't think we have to and therefore we're not going to right it's already closed it will be at some point so well if you don't count the 20-day appeal period we don't want to do that right we don't want to talk about that we won't give anyone any ideas right so now we're going to welcome back Mr Varner who has apparently the patience of a saint hanging around all this time just as a viewer welcome back John uh the next thing is a general public comment period is there anybody Miss Williams who wants to make a general public comment um no no they're not okay so we will move on to other business not antici ipated within 48 hours does that exist I don't have anything to report no anybody else have anything to report no okay I can report that the weather has been an absolute Delight earlier this week and it's due to end by the end of the weekend and I will be sorry to see it go but it's been a joy to have this in late October and that was not anticipated Within in 48 hours so there you are um is there any Miss Williams is there we usually go over a schedule at this point yeah is there anything that you want to tell us that's different from the schedule or do you want to go over it I know there's a bunch we take we can take a look at it just okay so that we did our due diligence right so we're here we wrapped up both of these right Hallelujah um so now we're moving into November November 14th so we have a break well you have a break two weeks and I've got meeting minutes to do um but yes the next meeting is November 14th and it will be halfway finders and half zba and at this meeting we are anticipating shsb solar coming back back um I don't know if they will continue or not so we'll see okay that is the schedule so far um then on the 21st we have a wayfinders only meeting then there is a a holiday on the 28th I believe we're closed we're not doing anything no meetings no me 12 12 will be a halfway finers meeting half CBA we may have two two possibly more everyone decided to apply for lots of things at the last minute so fun times for me um we'll try to squeeze in as much as possible between whatever we wherever we can for the last two or three meetings so that's what the end of the year is looking like and then so oh sorry go ahead if you're curious the next meeting would be or the first meeting in the new year would be January 9th but we don't know if it'll be a way finders meeting or just purely dedicated to zba business okay and just to confirm no meeting on November 28th and also no meeting on December 5 no there's a meeting on December 12 December five oh that's correct no meeting on December two weeks okay fine and no meeting next week or the week after so as Mr Henry said we get a two- week break and I get next Thursday a Thursday which is date night here and I already have reservations so that's exciting that I get to go out on a Thursday okay okay so that is the schedule and if there's nothing else from anyone on the panel I would be happy to entertain a a motion to adjourn later than normal but we actually got a lot done tonight I think so does anybody want the honor of the motion to adjourn and the joy I think okay Mr Henry you've done yman work tonight you get that and I think that Mr Varner should have the honor of seconding it because he stuck around do you second it Mr Varner I do second it and I'm proud of you for doing it um this is not debatable according to Mr Mr judge or any of us um uh the motion occurs on a vote the chair votes I Mr Henry I Mr Varner hi Mr White hi and the glorious Mr Meadows Hi Well Done It passes 5 to zero we are adjourned and concluded thank you everyone and thank you for your support and keeping me honest and directed tonight I really do appreciate it thank you for making this so enjoyable yes yeah see a great night everybody thank you all