##VIDEO ID:pV_9FMGdAmY## and we are live the chair notes the time is 6 o'clock I call this meeting of the ammer zoning board of appeals to order my name is Steve judge and zba chair I want to welcome everyone to this meeting we will begin with the Roll Call of the CBA members Steve judge is present Mr Craig Meadows present Mr eal Henry present Mr Philip White present Mr David SL present the Quorum is present also attending the public hearing tonight is Genta Williams a planner for the town pursuant to acts pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to observe the meeting May do so via Zoom or by telephone no inperson attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means the zoning board of appeals is the quasa judicial body that operates under the authority of chapter 48 of the general laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting the health safety convenience and general welfare of the inhabitants of the town of amest in accordance with the provisions of Massachusetts general laws chapter 4A in article 10 special permit granting authority of the amoris zoning bylaw this public meeting has been duly advertised and notice the Rob has been posted and mailed to two parties of Interest all hearings and meetings are open to the public and are recorded by Town staff and may be viewed via the town of amher YouTube channel and the zba web page the procedure is as follows the petitioner presents the application to the board during the hearing after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information after the board has completed its questions the board will seek public input the public speaks with the permission of the shair if a member of the public wishes to speak they should so indicate by using the raise hand function on their screen or by pressing star n on their phone the chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak when you are recognized provide your name and address to the board for the record all questions and comments must be addressed to the board the board will normally hold public hearings where information about the project and input from the public is gathered followed by public meetings for each the public meeting portion is when the board deliberates and is generally not an opportunity for public comment if the board feels it has enough information and time it will decide upon the applications tonight each petition is heard by the board is distinct and evaluated on its own merits and the board is not ruled by precedent statutorily for a special permit the board has 90 days from the close of hearing to follow decision for a variance the board has 100 days from the date of filing for the variance to file his decisions no decision is final until the written decision is signed by the sitting board members and is filed in the town clerk's office once the decision is filed with the town clerk there's a 20-day appeal period for an agreed party to contest the decision with the relevant judicial body in Superior Court after the appeal period the permit must be recorded at the registry of D to take effect tonight's agenda approve uh consideration of the approval of the minutes of October 17 2024 a public meeting on zba FY Cantina 485 West Street in accordance with condition number six of the FY 2015-3 special permit changes to the approved plans or permitted operations shall be submitted to the zoning board of appeals at a public meeting for the board to determine whether the changes are minor or significant enough to require modification of the special permit any new seating or other capacity shall require modification of the special permit a review of the proposed changes to determine significance will take place for prop for take place for property located at 485 West street map 19d parcel 19 bvc Village Center business zoning districts a public hearing on zba FY 202-10 19 Research Drive request to modify FY 20241 special permit to increase the caretaker apartment from for from 14 to 30% of residential area for property local located at 19 Research Drive map 19d parcel 19 I think we have a we have a mistake here on the yeah we have a mistake in the on the locations for the two properties just into so we can correct that on the both are Lo we have a public hearing for Research Drive uh address for Research Drive and for um Mission canteen the same I see what you're saying I see fixed uh anyway all following that is a zba fy20 25- 96365 Salem Street applicant seeks to come into compliance with zba 7 sections 7001 and ZB and 7002 for an enforcement letter that was received regarding the property parking for the property located at 6365 Salem Street M 15a Park 77 RG General residence zoning districts and zba FY 20252 422 Amity Street the applicant has requested to withdraw without precedent um general public comment period on any matter not before the board and any other business not anticipated within the fast past 48 Hours um is next order of business and then adjournment so the first order of business tonight is consideration of the minutes from the October 17th meeting um I have reviewed those and I have no suggested changes do other people have suggested changes to the to the minutes from October 17th all right CH if there's no changes there a motion to approve so moved is there a second second it's been moved and seconded to approve the minutes from October 17 2024 any discussion if there's no discussion the vote occurs on the motion to approve the minutes the chair votes I Mr Meadows I Mr sler I Mr Henry I and Mr White I the motion carries the minutes are approved the next order of business is um I won't have the I don't think I have the right address or the right map placement but it's I can give that to you it's 21b parel 82 great uh zda fy20 25-7 Mission Cantina 485 West Street so um we have received from them um several drawings from the um the working plans we see proed render exterior renderings internal renderings uh internal designs for seating uh and we've received a letter U mentioning what the goal of the application or what the goal of the request is as well as a um approved plan from dated 6712 2012 um it's a floor plan for the Mission Cantina which was approved with um in 200 12 F so CBA FY 2011- 000016 um I understand that the goal of this Ser is to return it to the um to what was approved in the earlier special permit and that the current conditions vary from what was approved in the current uh in the special permit itself um if that's true uh please confir firm and give us a little bit about what your purpose is in asking for this um um change or or referral back to the original original drawing just name and address for the record too thank you Mr chairman yes um I'm attorney Rich Maynard uh I am the uh uh individual who presented the materials uh to the board for your consideration I believe uh that probably you have in attendance uh in the audience tonight U would be Walter pachico and Bill cillus who are the current owners uh of Mission Cantina and also uh probably in attendance is Manny Susa who is the designer who prepared the documents that you have um before the the board uh and also Nick Southwick who's the contractor who would do any of the proposed work that's there the the purpose uh for last coming before you tonight is as you may know the uh the restaurant was recently sold to Mr pachico and Mr Kelis um as part of their um sort of welcoming to that area they're looking to basically do a little maintenance and updating on the property there that's been a little bit um you know uh probably due uh so in moving forward with trying to uh get the permits in place for the for those uh updates um they met with of course the building department and the planner to um uh make sure they were in conformance with what was necessary uh to make any of the um repairs that they were hoping to complete so as part of that process um we reviewed the permit that was initially uh put in place in 2011 2012 which was the plan that you referred to a moment ago that we're trying to return to um if you uh were able to review that plan and compare that to the sheet that we provided which was the uh ex11 the ex current existing floor plan um you can see that there is some interior walls noted by what is called the beer cooler and the pass through window um that were not part of the 2012 permit or the um updated 2019 uh permit so the applicants are looking to take down those walls to make uh the property back compliant with um what we consider to be the current approved uh plans um while they're doing that U they're also U cleaning up some of the um post outside that had some rod on it in the uh in the eaves and the outside area um and replacing some windows and doors which was why we submitted the rendering of the exterior as well so there would be u a you know some approximation or presentation of what the you know not really a change but what the updated uh area would be um so those are the materials that were presented we believe that what they're talking about doing is really more in the lines of Maintenance than any sort of change and therefore we felt that it was minor um not requiring the issuance of a modification or new special permit um I should note Mr chairman and members of the board that there was uh in the initial plans that were filed uh there was a small change on the seating capacity uh for the facility which changed the seating from 49 to 52 when we became aware of that uh as part that presently is in in place um for the existing special permits that requires a special a modification of the special permit for any changing the seaing capacity um we went back and revised the plans and have removed three of the um locations for the city one bar stool and and one uh twers seating and submitted just this evening I hope that uh I did forward to yenta I'm not sure if if uh she got those plans but we we red redrew the plans and have submitted them remaining consistent with the approved 49 uh seating capacity that is there currently and that's essentially what we're trying to do great um so what you're saying is that the previous owner um wasn't in full compliance with the drawings and the plans that were approved for the in the special per in the 2011 special permit and you're returning to that state of compliance with your your goal is to return to the state of compliance with the 2011 special permit correct yes all right um are any questions from board members or questions from the staff regarding this I I just want to make sure I understand um I I haven't seen the 20 11 2012 special permit if ATT can just simplify that what is the primary change if we went to the plan that is up uh if you're seeing this the screen sharing there you're looking at that plan uh you can there's a sort of a a rectangular uh outline on the right side of the of the restaurant showing a beer cooler um uh which it has those uh has those are wall existing walls so there's sort of just a very narrow walkway back to the back bathroom there and that particular wall where that beer cooler is which is being outlined right now that was that is not part of any of the special permits that are in place and have been approved so we're looking to take those walls down uh and then go back to that 2012 which was the other document that was being shared uh that would that would show the exist show the area without those walls in place so that's the primary interior change there and and and is that wall between you and the pizza place no that that's an interior wall the the wall between the the restaurant and the pizza place there are no changes to any of that okay all right so I what the question before as I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong the question before the board is do we think that this is a a minimal enough is this so minimal a change to the um property that it does not require a special permit or an amendment to a special permit and therefore can be approved this this work can be approved by the Building Commissioner that's correct and that question is if we think it's substantial enough and we believe that it needs a special permit we can vote to to have to say that are sub substantial changes and would require a modification of the existing special permit that's our two choices yes those are your two choices tonight seems to me is that this is exactly the kind of um situation contemplated by the zoning bylaw that allows the Building Commissioner to to make a judgment on the um and to follow up on this and to allow this uh change and it's going back to the original um 2011 plans um and so it brings the property back into compliance with the 2011 um special permit so it seems to me that I would favor um a vote of the board that this is not U substantial enough to require a special a modification of a special permit if there are no questions about that um I would entertain a motion that we approve that we um it's the sense that emotions the effect that there the sense of the board that the modifications proposed by the applicant return to its original um drawings and that it is not significant enough to require a modification of the special permit Mr Mr White has his hand up oh got it and so does Mr sler I didn't see either one of those there we go Mr White first um just a quick question if I can Mr chair um attorney Maynard uh you may not know this off the top of your head uh but with that being having been converted to a beer cooler um with that demolition I assume there electrical lines but are there water drainage lines and what else there I I can't answer that but we should have uh people available that could answer that question for you uh either Manny or Nick may be able to answer that question or perhaps Walt is whoever Mr Nicholas Southwick Hall U please state your name and address and uh for the record and you're muted right now Mr Southwick there we go Nicholas Southwick Hall great did you hear the question Mr Hall do you what's your address for the record 54 Pine Street belter Town Mass great did you hear the question Mr Hall I did all right there are no water lines or electrical lines located where the opening is proposed to be made okay good any other questions Mr White Mr sler I just um I looking at the plans that we were given yesterday they're on one of the plans on ID 1.1 there's a front elevation that marks new windows do we is that relevant to anything we're talking about or is that just normally done on extensive plans I don't even know why I'm looking at the front elevation well they there are they are changing uh the windows out and a slight change to the door so when we were reviewing the plans with the building department they requested that we submit the the rendering showing what the conditions would look like which are essentially the conditions as they look like now okay but it it it's not part you're not changing anything substantial and and it's still in keeping with the chair's sentiment which I support that this is relatively minor and doesn't need anything right that's correct okay my only other question is you're not changing the formulation of the daquaries are you that would be that would be a major change which I may have to object object to uh absolutely not okay fine in that case good thank you all right any other questions okay just just one more Mr chair yes Mr Henry um so we're if I'm understanding correctly we're trying to get this back in compliance with the original permit what happened why it's not in compliance well if that that question is for me I guess I mean I I would uh I guess the best way I could answer it is uh at least my clients are hoping to have and and of course they've been in ammer for some time with other restaurants but we're hoping that uh we will have a very positive experience with the town and doing things the way they're supposed to be done and properly approved and permitted and that may not have always been the case with the previous owner Mr Cody you have your hand up yes I do just give us your name and address for the record it's uh David Cody I'm building inspector in amrest I live at 79 Gulf Road belr town so the current floor plan is a result of an enforcement action after we had discovered a much more extensive internal change that blocked access to the toilet facilities and um created numerous health code violations with people having to sneak past the bar and then go through an expanded kitchen so um at this you know how that arrived is we were just trying to get it back to where they had legal means of eress and legal access to the toilets so in short work was done that wasn't um approved by the town and wasn't filed with the town and you then sub subsequently had an enforcement action is that correct that is correct okay okay thank you got it all right are there any other questions if not I R I would renew the motion uh would I think we had a we did have it a motion made and seconded if I recall if not let's do it again so moved is there a second second it's been moved and seconded that the uh sense of the ZB of the ammer stoning board of appeals is that this is a minor change and not does not warrant u a um modification of the existing special permit the vote occurs on the motion the chair votes I Mr Meadows hi Mr sler hi Mr Henry hi Mr White hi all right jents the motion carries five to nothing congratulations um good luck with your with your the new ownership of that restaurant and don't change the mole sauce either thank you very much mole sauce all right thank you thank you the next order of business is a public hearing on zba FY 202-9251 19 Research Drive request to modify the FY 2024-the the caretaker apartment from 14 to 30% residential area for property located at 19 Research Drive math 19d carcel 19 BBC Village Center business zoning districts um we had a site visit uh on Tuesday uh at that site visit we um observed from the outside of the property where observe the exterior buildings we observe we were taken inside to uh observe the site of the new uh caretake proposed caretaker um apartment on the second floor of the building uh it was in not in construction would be a converted space from an office and we talked with the owner regarding um the reason for that and that the caretaker was going to be one of two employees living on site for the the property um we toured that we saw the the e exit and egis we also saw the existing caretaker appoint apartment uh which is on the first floor has a model of the type of um um outfitting and um design that would be incorporated into the second floor second caretaker apartment I think that pretty much sums up the major parts of that site visit we have applicant submissions as follows um special permit application the special permit findings man containing a management plan Research Drive project narrative and a Research Drive layout with the second FL proposed design planning staff submitted a transmissional sheet this town hall and a project application report uh there's been no other comments from the uh from the town hearing and there's been no comments from the public that I'm aware of has there Justa no no public comments for this no public comments so um I think Mr Leon liberer um is is he going to to present or who's presenting for the applicant I'm not sure I think Claire is here so I'm going to bring Claire in all right R if you are here please raise your hand I don't see him okay Claire well I'm trying to promote Claire and there she there you go yes okay fantastic you're muted [Music] Claire oh she's declining to be promoted as a panelist all right so well there's H hi you go all right I'm gonna change your name so that we're not thinking that you're Claire okay um could we get name and address of the person that's going to um represent the applicant yep Ron ler I'm working on it we were we were watching a spinning wheel for a while all right just all I need is your address then Mr 433 West Street ammer Mass got it I we were we had a good a site plan visit us I would site visit and I would ask you just to uh briefly let us know um the extent of the expand expansion of the residential area for the property and why you are requesting that uh we're requesting uh the expansion of just uh let's see here 1,100 no yes one 1,46 square feet on the second floor of the building um and the reason we're doing it is because uh right now the the woman who cleans our building dula Santos she has to drive to the building and drive back and you know I thought it would be a really nice thing to do for her actually if uh she could stay at the building she cleans she also cleans at the office park it would reduce her you know the amount of Miles she has to put on her vehicle and it would also provide better service for us and the you know the the commercial tenants in the building having you know the cleaning person right there should we need anything else our other maintenance person does more of the outdoor you know mo removal of snow ice um you know plantings all those things but that's M Rogers and U you know he's very happy there and I thought perhaps we could do a second unit for for Dua Santa and both provide better service for our tenants and provide um a much needed housing uh for um somebody in the cleaning business got it and Mr Liberty what I understand is that the current bylaw um permits 10% um of the for space can be used for residential you've been uh your special permit allows it allows currently 15% which you're pretty close to and this would double that to about 30% reason correct the reason that you're before us here is that this causes the this would cause the uh increase it would cause you to be out of compliance with the former special permit and would about double the amount of of um residential space and that's the question for the boards that you're understanding okay um the other so we had a good site visit um I had I thought it was it makes perfect sense there's more than enough parking there's more than enough um area for this and how you wish to manage your property and manage um how your employees live there it seems to me to me perfect sense and it doesn't do violence to I think the concept or the the uh purpose of the zoning bylaw to allow more residential um residential space in a building where it is used for caretaker services do other people have questions or comments Mr slober yes I I'd like to make a comment very much in support of this and and point out that from what I understand the space that is being converted into a residence was not office space so it's not actually reducing commercial space this was ancillary computer support space from what I believe I heard the other day and that it was an independent space so it's not reducing the the commercial Rental part of it this was part of the insurance company's support space so I think that this will provide housing there's everything right about this application in terms of the use of space and uh I think that uh the applicant is credible in what he did before when we approved a a uh special permit so I think everything that I heard Mak sense any other comments or questions I have a question I I wasn't on the side visit we we recently approved a special permit for a new building it it is in the same park that we're talking about correct no no yeah this is a this is a different Park than the one that was on um than the other the other property that M that he had that was the one where they're going to construct a new building yes yeah that would that's different property than this okay Mr chair if I may uh Mr Henry what you might be thinking about because I had a similar issue is approximately five eight months ago um we did have a special permit to expand Thea unit that's in this building um that we voted on that might be what you're thinking of but on the site visit we were taken around and shown because that works completed I'm shown everything on okay oh yeah I was thinking about the other property on um on 116 off 116 all right um any other concerns questions uh since this is a requires a modification of an existing special permit we uh if it go through we have to vote on a special permit so the first thing we have to do is see if there's any public comment regarding this and so if members of the public wish to speak on this matter they should so indicate by using the raised hand function on their phone or on their computer or um pressing star n on their phone and jenta I don't think there's any no I'm not seeing anyone in the um attendees that would like to speak got it so the last the last thing is uh any other questions from members of the board before we move on to the public meeting portion or any statement from Mr or from the applicant regard before we move to the public meeting portion if not I would entertain a motion that we move to a public meeting on this matter while keeping the public hearing open in case we need to gather additional information do I have such a motion so moved it's been moved seconded second the chair votes I Mr White I Mr Henry I Mr sler I Meadows I all right we're in the public meeting portion of that that motion carries we're in the public meeting portion of the of the hear the uh hearing on this matter um this is typically the place where we deliberate doesn't sound like there's a lot of disagreement but we do have to go through um findings and conditions so um if there are any concerns that people have now the time to raise them otherwise I'm going to run through conditions and findings and conditions all right the first finding is 10.38 0 and 10.31 dealing with suitability in the neighborhood in which it is proposed there's already a residence in this um development this is just adding additional one it's a caretaker caretaker departments are allowed in this zoning District 108 uh 10. 382 383 385 and 387 all deal with various forms of nuisance um this accessory use is not going to create any additional nuisance um it's adding an additional residence and there's already one residence in place it doesn't create additional nuisances we find that it doesn't create additional nues 10. 384 adequate and appropriate facilities uh would be provided uh the caretaker apartment includes appropriate facilities for the proposed use that is residential 10. 386 deals with the conformance of the parking signs and regulations there is plenty of um the staff and the applicant have reviewed parking for the building and that includes appropriate number of parking spaces as well as Ada spaces 10. 387 proposal provides convenience save vehicular movement within the site there's no changes to the to the U traffic plan or to the parking 10. 388 is does not is not applicable because it deals with off Street loading of vehicles and this does not affect that 10. 389 provides adequate methods of methods of disposal or storage for sewage the existing management plan in effect does that already it will remain in place 10.39 um protection from flood hazards nothing in it's not applicable because nothing in the proposed modification would affect flood planes 10391 also is not applicable it deals with unique historic or Scenic features everything is internal work 10.39 2 provides adequate Landscaping there's an existing management plan already so we find that the uh nothing in this proposed modification will U violate 10392 we can find that 10. 393 The Proposal provides for protection of adjacent properties minimization of light uh again there's no changes in the lighting plan that's already in place and will remain in place 10394 10395 neither of which are applicable the first deals with the impact of steep slopes the second deals with disharmony with respect to the terrain use and scale of the architecture again it's all internal building so those are not apply 10396 deals with screening for storage areas again the existing man plan management plan deals with this and it remains in place 10397 provides adequate recreational facilities does not apply again there's no ch changes to that 10. 398 The Proposal is in harmony with the general purpose and intent of this bylaw and the goals of the master plan the proposal creates Workforce housing and is on for an on-site employee and therefore is consistent with the goals of the master plan concerning conditions are there any other are there any objections to those findings if not we'll move on to conditions the conditions shall be built and the project shall be built and maintained according to approv plans and application package that's our standard um um language for this those plans includ sheet A1 first four plans dated August 8th 2024 the management plan approved as part of the earlier um special permit shall remain in full effect number three conditions from 2002001 and special permit 2020 to2 shall remain in full effect and four those are exist those are existing special permits and for the accessory apartment to loan accommodate a manager custodian security guard or other employee essential the operation of The Office Park the employees immediate family or household could be accommodated as well but only if in agreement with the property manager those are the proposed conditions of approval so I I would entertain a motion that we make the findings required out of 10.38 and approve the conditions 1 through four as it found in the proposed uh project application report do I have such a motion so moved moved and seconded any discussion about that if not the vote will occur on the the conditions and the findings um chair votes I Mr Meadows I Mr White I Mr Henry I Mr slober I now the vote occurs on approval of the modifications as conditions with with conditions could have all done it in one motion but I broke it down at two uh kind of inefficiently so uh I would entertain a motion to approve the request for a a modification to the existing special permit uh special permit fy22 4-01 um second moved and second chair vot I Mr Meadows hi Mr White hi Mr Henry hi Mr slob hi motion carries congratulations you're gonna have a I hope you have a very happy employee who's living on site good luck oh she'll be happy just to hear that we've been approved I'm sure of that thank you so much you bet okay byebye byebye thank you very much Mr chair yes I just want to make that clarification um you know I didn't close the hearing did I well that too um y but um it just to for the record it's the motion was for FY 25-10 was he yeah 25- what I meant is that 24 was the previous wasn't that the previous yes yes yes that's that previous special permit right oh yes you are right I did not move to close the hearing on that but I think we can assume that that's been effectively done we're not gonna have third vote on something that we don't need all right okay but I think I think that's good all right uh the next order of business is zba FY 20 25-9 6365 Salem Street the applicant seeks to come into compliance with ZB zoning bylaws 7.1 and 7.2 for an enforcement letter that was received regarding parking for property property located at 63-65 salum street map 15a partial 77 RG General residence zoning District District we had a site visit I'm just going to get my material here we had a site visit on Tuesday which we looked at the property we saw the [Music] um the existing parking of several cars on the property we went through it with the with the AR the architect and the engineer to um outline where the proposed parking would take place we looked at the houses on the we could see the houses on both sides we looked at the planting that mentioned would be either added or some taken down um I observed that the garages one had which were which were um we asked how the garages going to be used currently they're used for storage in the garage I observed a what looked to be a a long table with beer cups on it and some storage in the second garage um and we W walked to see where the cut curb cut would be for the parking on the side of the house I think that's pretty much we had a and we had a conversation with Mr Sparkle about the desire to try to um provide more parking for the um app for the residents of the property I think that pretty much sums up the nature of the of the site visit here we go all right in addition we have the following submissions uh special special permit application submitted October 7th a project summary submitted October 7th um Salem Street submittal also October 7th we have a CBA application which includes parking expansion prepared by zeng engineer dated 7 October 2024 deed survey copy of two leases sample and tenant lease notice sample certificate of tenant lease notices Salem Street PL submitted October 28 2024 supplemental submission submitted October 28th 2024 and supplemental planning plan submitted November 11th 2024 Town comments um we have comment from Jason skilles a town engineer requesting that the applicant add 3 to 5 ft of asphalt apron for the new grass Paveway driveway and from Eric jock Wetlands administrator the conservation committee has not yet received an application mitigation will be the question as well as the applicant proposing to offset the amount of air alteration that is proposed we have three public comments that I'm aware of um first one is by sanj arw that's from December 10th 2024 we've received a email from Michael Orland um which is from um dated December 12th and we received a email from Mary Clark dated December 12th and we received uh that's it those are the three public comments that we have received I don't think there are any other public comments are there Jinta none that have been written or submitted via writing all right so um Mr Sparkle do you are you going to be representing the the applicants yes I am great can you give us a little background your name and address for the record of course yes uh absolutely little background and um and anybody else will be speaking also okay um my name is Bucky Sparkle I'm a civil engineer based out of Leeds Northampton right over the river uh I believe also the property owner Joe pinty is uh with us this evening although uh you know I'm going to be managing this presentation and answering the board's questions I have put together um hopefully about a 10-minute presentation to cover some of the the details of of the application in the site and I'd like to just share my screen and and run through that if I may go ahead thank you Mr Sparkle clicking on the correct button all right so um starting off at the beginning U we have a recent photo this is actually off of Google Maps for the property and uh as you can see U you know there's a reason we got an enforcement letter on this one we have one car parked off in the grass we have a total of three cars parked off parked into what is the front setback these are very shallow Lots so there's a lot of front setback on these properties um and um just to be clear I should also mention that the owner Joe benty is here but also Valley rental company is technically the applicant on this I don't want to leave them out of the equation they've been very helpful uh and helping me prepare the application um very quickly the basics of the prop property uh we have Main Street and Salem Street uh so this is the third to last house on a dead end Street there are no properties across the street no Development Across The Street until you get all the way down to Main Street it's uh zoned RG it's just under a half acre it is a duplex um building that was constructed in 1965 and has been operated as a rental to my understanding that entire time period residential lawn Woods Wetlands a gently slopes from the road to the East and is on Town Water and Sewer um and then to summarize the application I mentioned an enforcement letter um Ed Smith wrote that letter indicated that um you know the cars do need to be on a reinforc surface and the setback issue so uh there are also other bylaws lots of bylaws that apply to um parking uh ones that I want to point out for this meeting is that in cases where there five or more cars parked on a property you try to avoid cars that park each other in and you want to create a circulation pattern ideally within a larger parking lot where cars don't back out into the street U so we'll talk about that as we get into this um we do need to go in front of the convservation commission and in discussing things with the administrator Aon jacqu over there it seemed better to start with the zba and then move to them so there'll be more uh more discussions I'm sure now the purpose of the appli is to bring the property into compliance um and so we have a plan for that there are eight bedrooms there are eight tenants and that has been the case um for almost half a century now and uh accordingly parking is in an uh incidental use to residential uh properties we are planning on doing um a mixture of asphalt paving up to the garage but also adding grass pavers in an area of yard so there's a firm parking surface we would need one additional constrained uh light that's not too bright I have details on that we will be providing screening for the vehicles uh through a variety of vegetation buffers three different screens and um proposing a fence as well and on a site that has no storm water bmps or improvements we're also adding uh some meaningful storm water improvements I do want to point out um as was brought to my attention I think today uh maybe it was Tuesday by Rob MOA The Building Commissioner bylaw 9.22 um you does you know help qualify what's going on here and I'm sure you're quite familiar with it my paraphrase is that the zba May authorize a non-conforming use and this is a use issue uh provided that you don't find that the situation the new use is more detrimental to the existing neighborhood than the existing non-conforming use and I think that's really important the existing non-conforming use for half a century has been a duplex rental with uh four bedrooms and has had affiliated with it eight and sometimes more cars over quite a number of years so this is the use that is driving the application in many regards also you know I have talked about the history a little so I'll move through this quickly um you know it has been in the biny family it was purchased by Joe's parents in 1976 it has always been uh an non-owner occupied rental so there's no change there became Joe's property in 1985 and um so there's been a very static situation uh for for decades um in the last few decades there have been multiple property management companies and in the last eight years um just so the board is aware uh the owner Joe has invested over $300,000 in property improvements so those are mostly interior improvements but he is um willing and and looking forward to you know improving the parking situation because they know it's problematic and I also kind of want to just bring in this little bit of sidea uh regarding you know cars and and what's been going on so the the owners haven't really done anything different they haven't done anything wrong when this property was built it was less than half a car per person but these days it's 085 cars per people and that's on average and of course as students you know rent in more and more properties in ammer and the student population themselves are getting cars more and more regularly um really there's there's a several times Factor increase between you know what was happening back in the 70s and what's happening today all right now to look at the property I know most of you have been there already uh but the bird's eye view here Salem Street is on the West Side directly across the street is a wetland directly behind the property of the house is a wetland um there are a few bits of landscaping vegetation and you can see grayed out slightly the It's a combination of the pave driveway and the gravel additions that have been uh put onto the driveway um and you can see this is from I think this is from the emmer most recent Emer aerial imagery we have 1 two 3 four five six seven vehicles uh in what is a very small area 1965 no problem 2024 problem um and there are multiple issues with that um as as I think is quite obvious looking at what we're trying to do and how we're going to hopefully change this um we are looking to uh up to the garage area keep the um driveway you know traditional asphalt overall it is actually square footage a little less area than the current parking surfaces so we are reducing the impervious area um we are reconfiguring it of course trying to make this work um and we are also expanding A grassp system that will have the look and feel of a residential on uh in this sort of olive hatched out area here two of the spaces are compact right here um but the rest are full size 9 by8 parking spaces some important things about the layout here um when I first sat down with I'm gonna zoom in but when I first sat down for the pre submittal meeting with you know Ed Smith who wrote this and Rob MOA and and other members of the planning department I showed up with um multiple uh parking configuration plans like how how many different ways could we try and resolve this problem and bring us into compliance and this approach seemed to be the best there just because it's pre-existing non-conforming there's no way to fully bring it in to the zoning byw requirements there has to be some kind of waiver involved so in looking up those options where this seem to be um the best safest most reasonable way to do it a couple couple things to point out this blue line that runs vertically is I'm highlighting the front setback line um so we're only allowed two cars in the front sub back so that are these two spaces the other six spaces are all inside the yard so within the main building area of the lot two spaces in front of the garage and it's true that if the garage spaces were used um that would be great but because we can't park cars in doesn't actually change this geometry at all it would just leave more open driveway in front of the house and I also got some feedback today from the property manager where they they have trouble encouraging people to park in the garage it is apparently very narrow they sent me some pictures there's very little room to open your door uh younger drivers are not nervous they they hate using the garage they don't want to use it um and also since it it doesn't really change the layout whether or not that's incorporated into the plan and the space is used um for other purposes inside the house um and uh let's see lighting we have well let's go with the Landscaping um right now there there's no screening buffer whatsoever for the existing condition what we want to do is preserve the existing apple tree add in a dense Evergreen um buffer through here screening buffer on this side again a dense roadside Evergreen buffer through here uh a thickly vegetated um mix of Shrubbery on the south side and are proposing a a wooden privacy fence for the benefit of the property to the north um I also understand that this property has uh actually said that they're not too interested in this fence so you know maybe the fence isn't isn't going to happen but uh it is certainly offered um in the back of the yard more of a Conservation Commission issue we're going to ideally convert the existing bordering vegetated Wetland that's being mowed into a native plant species put an additional 12 shrubs to help border that all the plantings are uh they're native they're all po pollinator friendly uh many of them came from the UMass pollinator list uh although surprisingly that list is mostly non- native species so I would like to talk to whoever put that list together um the uh paved are going to be designated with striped painting so you know each there'll be a couple of Stripes here the unpaved areas that are in the grass they'll have wheel stops uh to indicate where the locations are and I do want to get to lighting so right now there are two lights at the corners of each garage up until recently these were actually dysfunctional I got a message today that they have been replaced uh with functional lighting that my understanding matches what I submitted the new light would be mounted on the corner of the building here and it would also be a um a low Luminosity it's equivalent to 100 watt incandescent bulb it is two uh adjustable lights that are shielded that will Point down they will be set lower in elevation than if I scroll up a little bit you can see 71 Salem Street um the south side of this building is a garage uh on story one and a half with the peak in the roof the this section of the building is is twostory and according to a letter I received there is a bedroom window here that's actually higher than the roof this window is higher by a few feet than the height of this light this light will be lower that window it will be pointed down it will be shielded and if the neighbors are interested it will also be on the other side of a fence higher than the fence but it still helps prent glow um bouncing off of the buildings and see nearly done here um just a few other additional details that I want to cover I'll start on the right side you can see the graphic this is just an excerpt from the hydrocad program I use uh we did a storm Water Analysis uh the short answer is we are reducing the flow rate by oneir with this project we're reducing the flow volume by 40% uh so these are major improvements um to groundwater quality flood control etc for Downstream of Butters um other details about the project uh we are requesting a waiver from bylaw 7106 which indicates that vehicles are supposed to circulate within the site and not back out onto the street there there's very very little space between the building and and the street so there was no way um uh with the existing conditions to create some sort of internal Road and traditional parking lot like we are working with what uh was put down in 1965 and doing our best um but in support of that waiver backing out on the street you know we we've all most of us at least have been there we had our site meeting I think all of it standing in the middle of the pavement uh no vehicles came by only two houses are past this it's very very low traffic there aren't even houses on the other side of the road so uh as far as potential conflicts with traffic U being able to back out on this particular street is is a very minor uh consideration and uh I know the public is going to be discussing you know their views I'm sure shortly they sent um several letters in there were some themes so I thought I'd sort of preemptively talk about those um to to a small degree a couple of sort of the fluff what I call the insights here uh a couple of the letters so there were two letter three letters from two different properties um so two letters from one of the one of the properties um these letters actually did mention that they have enjoyed and even like living alongside students unusual to hear that of course they also talked about some of the problems that students have so I know I hear both sides of that but it's not a complete disaster out there um they appreciate some of the features of the plan the previous Paving the landscape ERS which do not block any of the cars right now so have a much much softer feel with uh the plan as proposed it was called a careful and thoughtful plan by it turns out a professor of civil and environmental engineering at UMass so I'm going to Pat myself on the back just a little bit for that another neighbor talked about well back in 1978 there were four cars there well earlier I showed that you know back in the 70s there weren't as many cars per person in the United States these days it's basically double so eight cars is a very reasonable amount of cars for this situation and this long-term use it has had eight bedrooms the neighbors talk about um so many extra parking spaces uh needed there were themes in these letters uh a couple of people you know I think well erroneously indicated that there have been 10 or more tenants here uh there is no history or record of that there was a complaint 14 years ago uh indicating that maybe there were more than eight people living there that property manager made a an in-person inspection and I I read the the memo they wrote and said they each unit had only four bedrooms intended for single occupancy they were not in violation of the terms of the lease there have never been more than eight tenants in this um rental um some of the comments from the uh uh public say we'll just rent a fewer tenants this been go going on for half a century and coming in now to uh a property owner and a business and say well now you can't do what you've been doing longer than anybody else has been living on the street uh nearly that that obviously that is not not a viable perspective um some of the letters talked about eight parking spaces or or parked cars or 13 parked cars so through the special permit as I'm sure you're aware the conditions are going to vary strictly control the property right now it's it's controll only by the property manager and the owner who is not local uh the property management company is um and uh it's Valley rentals right now I think they've been doing a fairly good job from what I hear um but the conditions of a special per permit will very strictly control the amount of cars available so the concern about eight or more than eight cars uh should go away and if it doesn't there is a very significant penalty that would be incurred for the property owner so this is really uh one of the best protections for the abuts is to to install a codified special permit um there were concerns about lighting I actually think I already talked about those um there was a question that the fence is maybe not desirable maybe out of character but the neighborhood it's totally by right to install yet if the neighbor doesn't want it it was mostly for their benefit so we're happy to remove it uh there was also the idea that more spaces are going to equate to more Vehicles which I just talked about uh and that is pretty difficult once a special permit is in place uh and that wraps up uh you know as many details about this as I could get together here and uh there's the stop share button I'm happy to um talk about any of the questions you have and bring up the imagery if you like great thank you Mr Sparkle um one quick question um in discussing the lighting they're all dark sky compliant and they would comply with the zba's rules and regulations is that right absolutely correct okay and you will adjust the lighting so it doesn't trespass upon the neighbor's property is that happily so and uh I I can likely volunteer for the owner and property manager that the uh the neighbor can have a say in how those are angled if if we just need enough light to safely get to the vehicles and and keep that very dark corner from being dark and and we we can wiggle those lights anyway that works for them um I noticed that the house to the south of 6365 sits a little bit lower than 6365 I think there's a um and you're you're proposing a vegetative barrier or between 6365 in the house to the South is that right that is correct and typically that's that barrier is 5 feet that prob and number one it's it may need to be higher if you're going to park on that have that angled parking that points directly into that house next door to the South um number one number two you're looking at vegetative barrier and the kinds of vegetation you put in can um be worthless in you know five four to five months of the year if it's not an evergreen kind of continuously leafed or um opaque property so got two problems with two problems for that property next door one is which one of which is the height of the cars which would be higher than if it was flat and secondly is what's the material you're going to use okay well we can modify um that that planting I was hoping for a little more biodiversity than is avail able in just the native evergain population but we are I I we have no problem with modifying that to be more obus skated more consistently so you have to look at something to give the benefit to the I think that would be a a benefit to the neighbors um and not have the lights those cars shining directly into their house um and you're right I want to just I wanted to say make a point that you one of the benefits of a speci permit for on property that does not currently have a special permit is um that it gives the town and the zba the ability to address some of the concerns neighbors have if we didn't have that you'd have to find a way to comply with the the um the parking without being in violation but we wouldn't have the ability to talk about landscaping or other things that might be a problem for Neighbors so that's there is a there's a value to a special permit that can that we should be aware of I do have a question about the garages uh I looked in it looks like one of the garages is a i it seems to me it's a beer it's a indoor beer pong room um and I know most most beer pong is conducted outside uh and perhaps it's a particular uh draw for this property to have an indoor beer pong facility but it can be used for a car too and next door the other garage look to have only a couple of boxes in it um and I don't know if it's that was beer p but it was a large table with lots of red plastic glasses which seems to be the Town Sport uh so talk to me about why you're not using why you're not using the garage you got two garages there there's two cars could park there is there a basement in this property um actually I I think there is but I I don't know if there's no basement Joe is here he could confirm it valent can you give us your name and address please yeah my name is Joe biny I live at 303 Sweet Bay place in carboro North Carolina and while the house has a basement um it's more it's more closely related to what I would call a crawl space it does have a solid um cement Foundation but it uh it has a low ceiling I think the ceiling is only about six or seven feet um it's not really finished it's not heated um it can be used for storage at best right but it is not really living space thank you but it could be used for storage it's not ideal for storage because it's not temperature controlled um and it can be musty down there uh you know it's it's a wet area so that it would be damp sure and do tenants have access to it yes they do okay so it's their ability to if they wish to they could they could put stuff there but it might be inappropriate for what they wish to store all right so why else wouldn't you why wouldn't you use the garages you said they're narrow I mean we've all had uh we all had time in our life when we had to drive into a narrow garage and and I can tell you that even with a not so narrow garage um accidents happen I can personally attest to side that get knocked off but we all have to deal with that so why aren't you using that why doesn't this plan include the use of the garages yes sir chair yes Mr Henry you canot play beer pong outside when it's winter I know you can't you can't and that's why I think it's May it may be trly an attractive feature may be more important than the parking space ring of the house but well I I will say that the the uh beer beer pong tournament was never came up during my discussions with with my clients um in fact I it was amused to learn by the current used to the garage um in terms of the plan is it is it technically possible the garages can be used yes I will not deny that I don't think anybody is denying that I'm going to share my screen again though and indicate um why it it almost doesn't matter and the reason for that is you still can't park vehicles in so say we had oh here let me get creative here uh a vehicle parked here all right and come on there we go uh here in the garage great um we cannot have a vehicle parked anywhere else on the driveway so we don't gain any parking by using the garage we don't lose any impervious area by parking in the garage we still just get you know now this is this is in violation of the bylaw it's actually one of the things we are trying to unravel as as a result of this application or through through this application it's not a violation of the bylaw the bylaw seeks to try to encourage that but all over town cars are parked behind each other all over to when there's five or more parking spaces my understanding I think it's bylaw one or 7.12 yep it is right then it says for uh the vehicles well it says vehicles I believe it says in the front setback but this property is also a lot of front setback cannot park each other in and uh we're supposed to have free and clear access for emergency vehicles yeah that's that's and it's something that we could wave but uh and all over town people are parking behind see cars park behind cars all over town and I don't think it's a unusual thing but anyway I I take your point Not Unusual I take your point that that's 7.2 um but it isn't it isn't it isn't unwave or un amendable by us if we choose to do that certainly and and the reality is to to a large degree I I think we are open to other Solutions and and if stacking Vehicles works better for the the town the neighbors the board we'll stack Vehicles that's the existing condition really so there's there's no opposition to that um what this plan does is the best possible job of meeting the zoning bylaw that we can especially when we consulted with you know Rob others so we'll stack cars um but it doesn't uh it it it can reduce the impervious area we can reduce where some of these other spaces are and we're open to that it's less construction less money yeah one other question I I I don't mean to be adversarial but I drove down that street today just take a look at it again and you know there's there's no other property that has the number of what H what obviously places where cars had parked in front of it than that than that property has there are properties that have a driveway runs alongside the the house there's some cars parked in the back there's others but it that property more so than any other property on the street has a feel of having a lot of cars in the front yard more than any of the others and I can understand concern about what that would would what that feels like for Neighbors who live in the in the prop on the on that street and who have Parks Park in back or have garages in the back Etc um and I also noticed that you had cars parked Associated I'm assuming associated with the house because they're parked out in front of it parking on the street so that's another I think it's another problem evident for some reason it's no parking in I don't know why but it's no parking there but um so what do you what's the what's the response from you on in terms of design to having all these you'll have a lot of cars you'll have at least six parked in the front two parked visibly on the side you've got eight cars in your plan that are going to be obvious to um Everybody the neighbors and um and I can see where people would be concerned about that okay uh it's it's a fair concern this this property is a little bit different than the other properties uh on Salem Street there is only one other rental it is the one to the South that we talked about everybody else is a single family home um I think somebody does an Airbnb on Salem Street but uh they have a large property um this particular building 1965 constructed as a duplex four bedrooms it has been rented out since 1976 same use eight occupants renting this for half a century and of course as population you know Trends shift and people have more cars the number of cars that are affiliated with the use and every other use in town that has people you're we have more cars there so pre-existing non-conforming use um what we're trying to do is clean it up preserve The Yards hide the vehicles improve the storm water does that change the aesthetic it it does the the buffering certainly will the the cars are currently just right out there muddy Messes in in the yard that's not really doing anybody any favors um but this has been the case for decades um which is why we're we're just going to try and do the best that we can with what's available it's not not to tell the people you cannot operate your your property as has been the case for 48 years um let other people members of the board questions have comments um I don't want to dominate the time well I'll make a quick comment uh Mr bamy I find it rather hilarious that I'm assuming you move from Massachusetts down to North Carolina and I move from Wilmington North Carolina up to ammer Massachusetts so than actually have this is my third college town I went from ammer Massachusetts to College Park Maryland now I'm just outside of Chapel Hill so I I know the College college town life pretty well yes Mr sler I just want to clarify something that Mr Sparkle said that I think he said something different on Tuesday at the site visit or I heard it wrong but I just want to clarify I thought Mr Sparkle that you said that the current owner of the property had grown up or lived in the property that he left the property when his parents moved and that that was when it became a rental property so what is the what is the chronology of that was I'm that's a little bit at odds that this has been a rental duplex from the very beginning you're right you're too to point that out I'm going to just say flat out I did not fully understand the history of that I had previous to that meeting a little bit of history and then in the last couple days I got a lot of history from from the owners and the property managers so the the reality is and Joe please step in at .05 I'm wrong but Joe grew up in the area he grew up in the neighborhood but his family did not live there when they purchased it in I thought originally was 1970 it turns out 1976 they purchased it and they rendered out as non-owner occupied both sides of that duplex from the moment they owned it and he only lived in the area and then eventually after his parents were no longer operating the facility he he ended up uh inheriting it I believe it was an inheritance okay thank you I'm sorry I didn't have the exact history on Tuesday okay and and my apologies U part of that was my I moved my family and I moved to amorist in 1970 but my parents didn't get the rental property until 1976 so I had when I had been talking to Mr Sparkle earlier I had conflated those or mixed up those two dates but yeah I was in massachus I was in amest from 1970 and till probably around 1983 but we never as a family lived in the property okay had been student rentals the whole time or was it single families or mixture um so in 1976 I was only about eight years old and I don't remember exactly um what I can tell you for sure is that it would have always been a preference um but it as far as I can recall it's always been in rented out to students uh just because that's where the demand is been well there's a lot more demand today than there was in 76 but you know you could I mean the number of students today is must be triple or quadruple a number there was in this in the late middle 70s but so we don't know the answer to that that's that's fair that's fair especially if an eight-year-old I appreciate that um I guess the other question I have is it's um the bylaw assumes that you it it it allows us to wave this or modify it as whatever our judgment is but the bylaw suggests two cars per parking spaces per unit which would be a total of four um you have public transportation just down the road very easy to get um you have St uh you have and you have the ability to say to people you know they can have two cars in unit one and two cars in unit two you you can deal with it that way you could restrict the number of par people that could park on your property it's not you're not required to provide four spaces for people by the zoning bylaw and it could be you could have less you could have six you could have four um we could even have less if redeemed it but two seems to be the pretty much standard number that we apply in most cases given uh normal residential circumstances why what is your reaction to the notion of fewer parking spaces available on the property either Mr Sparkle or or Mr B fee um I'm definitely I'm sure Joe has has an opinion um what what I understand is is a few things one as as a as a business owner myself um you know it's there's effectively a a supply and demand situation parking spaces are valuable um and if you have parking spaces and then they are taken away after uh quite a long period of time that's that is problematic and and definitely um an unusual burden that any business owner would was sustained so you know effectively throwing out a source of Revenue is is not attractive I am sure um and U in this particular you know layout you know there aren't a lot of times where you you add more parking spaces and decrease the Imperial area and increase the amount of vegetation and Shrubbery on site uh so it it seems unintuitive to uh make a restriction the the rental permit has had eight cars or yeah I think the rental permit has had eight cars on it even though the parking plan from way back in the day has always just had five been an understanding um at least you know on their side of the equation even when the permits came into place that there were there were eight occupants there would be eight cars parking plan did not show that I think that's a relic back from the Eagle Crest management days uh and you know and sort of the status quo just kept moving forward until we we got to the special permit so to me it seems unattractive to get rid of a revenue stream and and an asset I mean yeah you don't charge you don't charge for parking he's just Incorporated in the rent and so what you're saying is you wouldn't be able to demand $1,000 a month per room if you didn't have four parking spaces is what you're amenities yeah if the house had a hot tub they'd be able to charge more I'm sure of it so it's similar and the that beer pong table that's that's going to really drive up the cost that was included in the facilities at craon um I that's that's a joke I didn't it is it's a good joke it's a good joke I've been laughing about it since it was discovered yeah um before I go to Mr slov so so anyway um one thing to think about that we need to think about is whether there's the balancing the need to allow the balancing the the wishes of the current owner to maintain the number of parking to maintain eight cars versus the the effect it has on the neighbors if the number of cars are Vis cars are visibly reduced some which would be could be inside and that's really where we're that's what we are looking at is trying to balance those two competing concerns it seems to me Mr sler you had a question I had a qu I have a question about the number of cars that would be on the property at any given time if there are eight occupants and they're allowed eight cars I'm asking Mr Sparkle I guess primarily does this mean there will never be visitors because if there are visitors who drive there can only park on the property if the car is stacked behind someone else so what how are you anticipating addressing visitors under whatever circumstances people who visit from out of town or visit for the evening or visit for a beer pong tournament or whatever uh is the attraction what happens when someone comes to the property who is not one of the eight tenants sure I I'll do my best to address that all I do I do believe the the property manager and owner are probably better suited overall um I know this this challenge comes up whenever we're working with residential situations you we have two bylaw says two cars per residential unit it doesn't address if there's one bedroom or four bedrooms in that unit it's just a blank number so I I always have found that to be a little bit unusual you know when you design a septic systems based on number of bedrooms not on how big the house is you know uh so I I've never felt that um the limitation was was reasonable I do know there are properties with special permits that I've been involved in where there is no visitor parking whatsoever and you know you're allowed for parking spaces you've got six bedrooms I mean there's not enough parking for the people who want to live there so that means that VIs visitors would have to park elsewhere and walk in or they would have to coordinate with the owners to make sure that there was adequate space on site to park um it is possible that the property managers may say well we're going to say only six cars from tenants can be here and we'll have two extra parking spaces for when there are visitors maybe they make that choice which is why I say that that choice really is I think more of a property management issue than than an engineering issue in the moment um and Joe if you have a different opinion i' I'd love to hear because I I hate to talk for you in this particular regard uh well thank you very much Mr Sparkle I actually appreciate your insights and um the best thing that I can say is actually kind of connecting both of those two comments and and Echoes what Mr Sparkle says is that the the reality of the demographics and the way people commute and and and move around I mean I do remember when I first was the you working with property managers in the 80s and 90s there were less students that had cars they did take public transportation they walked they took their bicycles it was an affordability and accessibility issue that they the students the the tenants they didn't have access to it um that just simply has changed since then and there's there's the reality that the the streets and the parking lots I in my opinion just sort of need to catch up with the demand of society these days um and to Echo what I heard you know this is not an adversarial thing this is I want everyone I want the tenants the neighbors the town um me as an owner we we all want the same thing we want this to be efficient and and Equitable and and fair I mean I I think the tenants you know what what would it say to a tenant if we're renting out a a great location but forcing them to take the bus or ride the bike especially in the emeris winters I remember those um so I'm I'm trusting Mr Sparkle and our property managers to and the town you know we can all work together to find an equitable solution I hope that helps other comments or questions for members of the board so one last so we're coming up on 7:30 when we normally take our five minute break what I'd like to do is take that break now and everybody we come back at 7:30 it's 7:32 we come back at 7:37 um and then we'll I'd like to ask a question about the status of your um of what's what you need to do with the the concom and then I want to open it up for public comment and then of course the um applicant can respond to the public comment at that time so uh take five and we'll be back all right thank you e e e e e e e e e e for okay uh it's 7:38 let's try to gather everybody again great we'll wait for Mr Henry and Mr sler to sign in all right great um so Mr Sparkle can you go through um where you are your interactions with the concom and uh what do you expect to have to do there and how does it affect your plans for this for the parking absolutely um interactions so far um have been relatively brief it was uh some emails and the Pres submittal hearing where I sat down with Aaron jock and looked at like I said it showed up with multiple options about how might we resolve and come into con uh compliance with the enforcement letter and because there is and I'm happy to bring it up on screen but essentially the the site is in between Wetlands there's a whole bunch of um buffer zone it's it's nothing but buffer zone uh within the yard in the front yard uh in in Amis the 50 Foot buffer zone is supposedly a no touch disturb area of course there's a whole bunch of disturbance there already so we're trying to minimize that and then uh there's a little bit of the 50 to 100 zone so we it it's challenging in some regards uh we're we're looking I have a notice of intent um all packaged up ready to go pretty much as soon as this meeting is over um you know in case there were massive wholesale changes that came out of tonight's meeting so you know if if there are massive wholesale changes that board members are considering please let me know so I'm not wasting the conservation commission's Time by sending a plan that's never going to happen um so we do have to go through that process the public hearings Etc um they're um they we're going to be doing some mitigation we are even though so we are converting yard to yard with this new additional parking it is still considered disturbance and it's in an area where we would normally have to provide mitigation of one type or another where we're disturbing about 1,400 square feet of yard and hopefully as a mitigation measure the commission will accept that we are taking more than 1500 square feet of the backyard that's currently a mode monoculture CH to it under planting uh Native species seedlings uh New England wet mix and installing a permanent vegetative buffer that will keep lawnmowers and general users out of that space in perpetuity there's a deed restriction that's created as well to help preserve the resource areas on site okay we'll see how that goes yeah I but you don't have any all right so you have you have to begin the process you you've had some conversations but you haven't begun the process yet with comcom so we're in a situation where if even if to make a decision tonight KC con could say that you know they have great problems with this and we be back on our on our plate it is not often that I would request that the zba not make a decision tonight um I would I really would rather keep both hearings open so I can if there are wholesale changes at the commission requests I can come back here with a modified plan and we can we can discuss the merits of that app or revision as opposed to of course well we have a public hearing say we were fortunate enough to to receive the the board's approval but now we have to modify a special permit so um I do need to bounce back and forth um I would prefer we don't close out the meeting tonight all right um before we go to public comment anything from the board members if not um this is an opportunity for the public to weigh in on their view on this matter um oh and Miss Williams I sent you a text take a look at that if okay after your after you we bring in one of the okay anybody speak a Janet Winston wishes to speak okay M Winston can you please give your name and address for the record there we go Miss Winston you're um muted right now this even the video off okay all right we hear you loud and clear can give us your name and address please for the record and uh keep your comments to around three minutes or something like that um I'm Janet Winston and I live at 37 Salem Street and have lived here since 1981 at which time that particular house that we're discussing was there was a family with one child that lived there for um several several years I don't remember exactly three or four years and on the other side of the house were uh two women two sisters who were um out of graduate school and in the area working part-time in various places one of them became um a professor at Holio Community College I don't remember when they moved out it probably was um I don't know into the early 80s I guess um so I just wanted to mention it has not always been rental for a number of of uh students at uh on both sides of the house it definitely was a smaller um you know was for a small family or to adult individuals that's that's what I wanted to add to the information about the background the history of that house that's it that's it yes all right thank you very much Winston um I see we have um sanj a yes I'll bring him in are you on mute we can turn Miss Winston you might want to mute your yep Mr Mr a AR is that correct arw you've done very well Mr judge thank you all right name and address please uh I'm San yep I'm San AR I live at 71 Salem Street the property immediately abing 6365 to the north got it shall I proceed thank you thanks for the opportunity to speak to the commission and offer comment I appreciate it and I'll do my best to be concise I did submit written comment which I hope the uh uh board members have had a chance to read it sounds like they have um and I am the a mentioned professor of civil engineering at UMass uh it is a good and thoughtful plan and I appreciate actually very much the time effort and money that was put into preparing this plan um and uh I think I'm only supposed to address the com the board but Mr biny hello it's nice to meet you I don't know if you recall but we actually spoke by phone probably back in 2008 for a little while um and so I am actually I am grateful for the effort that's being put into bringing the property into compliance in some form um there are actually many things to like about the plan the imper the perious pavement the substantial planting even the back the work in the backyard um it's very much appreciated uh with regard to history not with understanding what various management companies may have told to Mr Sparkle the property has been over occupied frequently in the past uh 15 years I've lived here since 2006 my wife and I met make a habit of collecting names and phone numbers from the occupants of the rental property next door and there have often been 10 residents and sometimes as many as 11 there have frequently been as many as 10 cars regularly parked and I think the maximum one year was 13 cars being regularly parked at the property um and uh so that is those are my facts uh as an observer of the property over the last uh 18 years now um I do like living in a mixed neighborhood with students and it is not lost on me that without students at the University of Massachusetts I have neither profession uh nor an ability to live in ammer so I I actually I am not against student rentals I believe that student rentals existing in mixed neighborhoods are healthy for the town of amest um and I for the most part like living next to them this year's group of tenants there are four on each side is correctly occupied one side actually possesses zero cars this year um which is unusual and quite impressive and they have been totally delightful neighbors engaging with us as adults engaging with my son and so on um that said I have some concerns about the plan as presented uh we've talked about lighting a lot um I will say that the spots designated to the north of 6365 also pose a significant potential noise Hazard to our house and particularly to the bedroom window on our second floor that faces South we need to recognize that students are often arriving back at their house as late or early as 1 2 in the morning doors are being opened and closed car doors and conversations are being had outside those vehicles at that time of night so it's not simply the lighting it's also a significant potential increase in noise exposure there um I think that um the the plan seeks a parking arrangement in which there is no stacking vehicles I appreciate that as an objective and particularly as something that appears to be at least in compliance with the intent of some bylaws um as I indicated in my written comments there are as many as 19 potential spots for vehicles to park and again my experience living next to the property for the past 18 years is that every every place that is available will be used at times and so I believe that that extra improved ground constitutes something of an attractive nuisance um and uh that is a that is a significant issue for me um I just have two more brief things I know I'm over three minutes but I'll I'll try to wrap up quickly um in terms of what I've learned and heard during the course of the hearing um I would support and favor stacking of vehicles even if that uh requires a variance to bylaws um the students who have live there they regularly stack vehicles and they seem to work it out um and it would reduce the overall amount of improved ground and reduce the extra space that might become um unintended extra parking and I want to close with just a comment about enforcement in the town of amorist um it's been noted that with a special permit the opportunities for enforcement will increase um enforcement in ammer is fundamentally complaint-based and a complaint-based enforcement mechanism puts the neighbors me in this case into a difficult position of having to complain against our neighbors and so that's a reason why I particularly and I think others who have submitted written comment and verbal comment are speaking up about some of what we see as the dangers of this plan dangers is overstating things but you get what I'm saying right um because we have very few opportunities to influence the use of these properties and putting us in a position of having to be complainants to uh uh initiate enforcement puts us into conflict with our neighbors which is not a situation I generally want to be with be in with with my neighbors whether they be students or not thanks for listening uh I wasn't quite short as I wanted but that's what I got to say all right thank you Mr a um are there is there anybody else who wishes to speak at this point this is again this is where the public is an opportunity to comment on this application I don't see any additional um attendees wishing to speak all right so that now we have the opportunity for the applicant to respond to any of the public comments if they so choose um yes it was actually kind of a delightful set of comments from the public as far as these things go so appreciate the um the consideration offered um I think mostly um I mean obviously there's been a discussion that there have been a there's been a change in demographics in hmer between 1981 and today you know we've had um several decades go by so you know more and more we all know that students are sucking up pretty much every nook and cranny they can get their beds into in town um so that that's an operating environment um and that not much that can be controlled I don't know a single landlord or property manager who would rather rent to students over a family so you know the the most desirable tenants will be be taken given that opportunity I'm sure of it um and a couple other things I like I said I'm I am certain that that the property manager and owner are amenable to other configurations um we if we can stack Vehicles if we can put more vehicles in the um front setback Zone more than the norm two normally allowed we can reduce the amount of payment we can reduce the physical opportunity uh for more cars to jam themselves on that that hypothetical 19 spaces I looked at um a little bit hyperbole in in that uh however it's it's true there's if you can drive a car you can can park it and get out of there so if there are fewer places that Vehicles can physically occupy on the property more controls to make sure that they can't go into uh the yard and get around this or that um I'm I'm sure that uh the owners are would be amenable to that so if stacking and more cars in the front step back are permissible we can absolutely decrease the the general impact as well as draw uh Vehicles farther away from uh Mr A's bedroom um we don't we're not intending to cause nuisance but you know the bylaw encourages vehicles to be pushed that far onto the property so that's where we are we get relief from that we'll come back with with a a different configuration happily but I'd love to get some feedback from the the board if we think that's possible all right any comments from board members I have one um I'm I was it was interesting to learn that the one half of the house doesn't have any cars presently but uh but it seemed that there was five cars parked four or five cars parked there when I went past it today and I also noticed that the were there was yeah there was four cars parked there today there two of them that were parked up against the house both more than half off the parking prop the parking area leaving room for two cars to park in front of the garage so you could have easily have had four cars parked right up against the house and there was a third car or another car that was parked off running at an angle on the street so right now it seems that there's I mean there is a possibility of just running cars straight across from the the door to the door you could move it back a little bit to give people access to it but right now it seems that that's what there are they're doing currently um and I also do think that it's it does speak to the availability of public transportation that there is um at least presently four evidently there's four tenants that do not have um a car currently um are there other comments or S what I'd like to what I go ahead Mr Henry ask a quick question so when when the um one side has no cars um is is it designated parking for each side or is it first come first or kind of a parking situation I believe it is a a for all kind of first come first serve um and again if if the owner corrects me I'm I'm happy to stand corrected there they're not designated spaces um and I think par particularly when you do have a stacked parking situation which has been the the case for a long time uh you you you can't really designate spaces because then you can't coordinate people's schedules with their parking space if one person's blocked in they got to they got to move when they got to move and um so there are designated locations we could designate locations if if there are no vehicles that are parked in but I think that's the only circumstance where that's viable and and perhaps I missed this and apologies if it was recovered does the lease speak to parking and the rights to park I'm sure that it does and I have to admit I I am not the authority on the details release and the parking um and Joe please if you have a better answer than I saying I don't know i' I'd love to hear it yes I am not the best person either it would be the property manager unfortunately they're not on the call but I do know from seeing the leases over the years that there are they are specified there there are parking amendments to the lease um yes so I understand that you guys are asking for more time so if if we're going to continue this I would ask that um we see a copy of the lease and the parking language yes that was submitted with the original submitt um however the the leases are several several pages of of course mostly you know fine print but it does I'm scanning to it right now to see if I have an answer but registration section 8.1 through 8.4 uh 8.3 dealing with registration registered with the landlord parking and unauthorized parking which doesn't really comport with the management plan the parking plan or the management plan that you guys have submitted so I guess a couple of things before we go any further um I think that there's I got a number of questions I'm not ready to make a decision on this tonight for a whole host of reasons number one because there's more to there's more to hear from on the comcom and what's you know what's happening there two I think you ought to be looking at a plan that incorpor operates the garage and takes fewer cars off the off the um on the on the property even if it is stacking number three I'm not sure that you need to have eight eight spots and you could look at a some alternatives for Less spaces total spaces you could do two in the garage and four on the on the property those four could be lined up directly against the house and they wouldn't wouldn't necessarily have let trespass on either either of the ne of the neighbors but that's something that you know Mr Sparkle you're much more um able to take a look at than I am just my gut feeling here I think you can look at some opportunities I think as I said I think you need a parking plan um and um and you don't really have one that is how do you you how do you manage this if you're going to have people right now people are parking on grass there you can see from the you can see from the the tire Treads and uh and I saw it today so you're going to need to have some kind of a parking plan and that could be a benefit to not only you as a landlord and you could enforce it but it would be also be a benefit to the neighbors Mr chair Mr Meadows has his hand up yeah I was just finishing my sentence I will let Mr Meadow speak now yes go ahead I would agree with a lot of things that you just indicated um and and one thing that Mr Sparkle has said that I believe in um and that is that there is a great demand for housing for students in this town now and based upon that I am sure that they could get enough students to live in that house without cars that they would have no problem in renting to it so my only the only way I would vote for this if it was for four cars and I would prefer to see two in the garage and two on the on the in the parking lot and a f and fencing to keep them off of the lawn along the street and along the side of the driveway other than that I can't imagine voting for this just to make sure that Mr Sparkle's aware thank thank you for your perspective Mr sler I just want to clarify are we are we going to go to wait a minute a public meeting if we don't vote on it tonight or is now the opportunity to express concerns this is a I I think it's a good time to express concerns I'm not sure that we need the formality of the public of the public meeting because I'm I'm pretty confident we want to continue this Mr sler so okay I think there's a lot of discretion to give your views right now you're know in in that case may I be recognized yes you may thank you thank you uh I have a number of concerns and uh find myself very much in of the same mindset as Mr Meadows I thought Mr aradi was a remarkably credible uh witness I suppose and his point about the parking area that would be along his property line being an attractive nuisance really resonated with me it's right AC it's right at the property line no setback at all even though it's not a building and cars coming in and out at 1 or 2 in the morning is automatically annoying uh I felt that his point about enforcement was extremely relevant and I also drove down the street today I did not encounter chair judge when I drove there so we did not collectively increase the traffic flow at the same time and run into a problem but when I was there there were five cars there which it's remarkable that one side has no cars so that means the five cars were all from either the other side or a visitor somewhere or one of the four people who has a car also has a second car I don't know but it means that they get visitors and that there is some amount of traffic I also have a a bit of a problem uh with changing the rules just because the circumstances have changed and more students have cars I think that Mr Meadow was absolutely correct if the if one side of this building has no cars that means that those four occupants have figured out how to get to class without a vehicle and that might indicate that four spaces divided between two units would be adequate and those are the rules and if things have changed I don't know that it is the responsibility of the town to amend the rules to accommodate a property where there are so many other concerns associated with it so I also would have a very difficult if not impossible time uh voting for The Proposal as submitted I think it needs needs to it needs to be four cars or at the very least address it by permitting stacking so that you are not changing the property uh so much and and increasing the opportunity for so much parking whether it's hyperbole to say it was 19 or it's 17 or 16 I don't really care it's the all and you you Mr Sparkle acknowledge yourself if you can drive on a Surface you can stop your car and get out of it so that much that much uh area that on which cars can drive is to me a formula for some increased number of cars being there so I have a lot of concerns about this and uh and you know I think that that needs to be addressed so thank you for listening Mr Smith you have been uh really patiently it looks like you've been standing the whole time which I uh I find remarkable um you're you deal with parking enforcement I think for the town um one of the questions that I have for you is was there a parking plan in place that had was not followed or how did we get how did we get to the enforcement action that you guys took oops I can't we can't hear you no there no I I we don't hear you it's not your he's not muted no can you hear us obviously you can yeah so it's something in your microphone as my better half says all the time hold please yeah going old school yeah all right can you hear me now oh we sure can okay I'm sorry I'm clear that's all right there was a pair of ear pods plugged in on one side and I had a um USB port with my headset in it so I could hear you but obviously so here I am um this came to our attention um based on complaints about excessive parking um the parking plan on file I think showed five spots and um had been sort of carried over from an earlier time and what I was able to observe was about a year ago was that the post or the split rail post fence that delineated the front of the property and the driveway was in place on the left but on the right had um not been maintained and in addition there's a tree and if you go back to the first picture that uh Mr Sparkle showed us you can see the tree on the right behind the post and rail fence um and that's that was gone at that time the muddy ruts that you see today go right over where that tree trunk was removed um and the the parking had just it's all even wider at that point so there were if memory serves four rows of cars potentially with two each oftentimes somebody pulled up on the street um so you know one basic option is to just go back and maintain it the way that it once was uh it once had um it was laid out for five cars but you know de facto you had three stacked pairs of cars and nothing in the garage um my I mean I'm I'm thrilled that this is being addressed um the process you know that I refer people to in an enforcement letter is you know wending its way um and I am complaint driven you know my my workload there's way too much for me to do and I do end up prioritizing complaints um because I have to um there are times of the year when I I am not looking for work because there's too much to do so what I'm saying is a good parking plan is a big help to me um because it's clear either someone is compliant or not um in this case at least maintenance has to be done to the original plan but that doesn't give you eight cars there was there was this discrepancy which we'll own you know we accepted a management plan that said eight eight cars and a parking plan that said five um so that was you know inevitably G to lead to challenges okay and Mr Smith I didn't have you identify yourself but you're you work for the town as an enforcement officer correct yeah I'm a certified housing inspector uh as a health officer I'm a um local inspector as a building inspector and I serve in the role of lead code enforcement officer thank you um and Miss Williams can we get a copy of the old parking plan I can find it that would be good to have just in our packets for the next meeting sure yeah all right I guess one of that's one of the reasons that I said be good to have a parking you know have a parking plan in your management plan because um evidently over time that plan wasn't followed and that's what caused the enforcement action so a plan to provide for um to ensure that the parking plan that is eventually adopted is is complied with would' be good whether that's stickers or hangers or you know whatever whatever way you're going to do that Mr Henry it looks like you were going to ask something I that's okay Mr Kirk I am of Mr Smith yes um so if I heard you correctly the original parking plan was it five on one side or five on each side it was five spots um for for the two units as a whole for the whole build for the for the whole building yeah three directly in front of the house and uh stacks of two on the left and the right so the paved Central Parking area that you you see today plus the muddy expansion to the right um just in that paved area one two three cars directly in front of the the two garage spaces the outer edges had a a second car in them those would be the two in the front set back and that was originally filed an approved parking plan yes that's the one that we have on file okay and he also mentioned that um there was a fence that for lack of better term helped maintain that parking plan but it was not maintained by the property owner yeah it survives on the left it's um missing on the right and on the left the parking stays on the improved surface on the hardened surface and on the right parking has expanded into the lawn area the unimproved area and would you suggest that if the fence were to be say reestablished that would help with this parking issue that we're dealing with that would help but it also would be good to recognize that eight cars can't be associated with the house with you know a lack of parking on the street and um and the limited parking available you know currently on the house I'm talking about current conditions you know I too am open to whichever direction You all take in changing or you know continuing the parking whatever you come up with is what I would enforce in the future so the easier and more realistic it is that with respects to with respect to all and I you know I hear the the comments about um it's a reality that that many students bring cars to school and you know I similarly impressed with the current behavior that one side Works without cars basically although I'm sure they have friends with cars that come and see them um and the other side has you know fills the parking area so so one final question so I I wasn't able to go to the site visit but um as the expert who enforces parking reasonably how many parking spaces do you think this could reasonably accommodate um I know the permit initially said five but how many could it re accommodate and still essentially not create issues for a Butters you mean with the current size of the hardened area yes well I I if you allowed if you allowed another car in the setback you could have three stacked rows um I don't know you know that's not my decision to say that that's desired able or not I that's a lot of juggling for for people to get in and out um yet as has been pointed out some people successfully do that that makes the garage spaces if they were to be considered uh probably unmanageable unless somebody just wants to place to park a car and leave it for the semester um there would be three cars in a row essentially and just the the the puzzle of trying to get somebody in and out that's I would expect would be difficult too difficult okay thank you the good use for AI I think in the future or Tetris one or the other you know y okay um all right other so I think we Mr Sparkle and Mr balante I think we've given you some directions some indication of what we're thinking about uh the the thoughts of the board um we're not we haven't taken a vote yet but there's clearly some desire to reduce the sort of Vis visual clutter to reduce the parking the ability for people to park kind of halfhazard on the property and to to reduce the enticement to park outside Al I think you've also heard that there's some indication that four or is a number that people are are comfortable with five was a number that was originally um applied to this property so I I think and and you have to work with the um the concom as well so I think you've got some indications from us where we're likely to go and I hope that's helpful for you AB absolutely there's been a lot of valuable information shared here this evening um I know there were a lot of options in how we would approach this and I you know sometimes I show up and it's no brainer there's there's a clear best way to go forward there are there are options we're going to be taking a look at them I'll be discussing with the property owner and the management company um and we absolutely request that this meeting be continued to a date certain ideally after the conom meeting I don't have a schedule for that so probably February would be the earliest um or I'm not sure if there's a way to continue without a date certain or or a condition that something else occurs well we'll you know we can figure out how we do that here in a second but I think that's clearly the the desire of the members of the board is to continue it Mr White see that your hand is raised thank you Mr chair um so as far as my comments um I'm probably going to reserve them until after we hear back from the comcom all I would be doing is repeating so much of what the other members of the board have already said so I'm not going to waste everybody's time but just wanted to let the board know kind of where I'm at right now but thank you all right Okie do um so Miss Williams we don't have a date set for February and March for next year I don't think um but we can pretty much assume that the second and the fourth Thursdays are when we tend to meet and can we look at um the second Thursday of I think the second Thursday of March is about as soon as we could take this matter up again and Mr Sparkle I suspect it's going to take you some time working with comcom because I really would like to know what comcom thinks before we try to take a stab at this you know so I think that's going to I found it they've got a lot of work they've got a lot to do and I think it's probably March before we could do it and the 2nd of March second Thursday in March is the 13th and that would typically be our meeting date right yes that's correct so I would entertain a motion that we continue this public hearing on zba FY 202- 09 6365 Salem Road until March 13 at 6 PM do I have such a motion moved it's been moved and seconded is there any discussion if there's no discussion the vote occurs on the motion the chair votes I Mr sler I Mr Henry I Mr Meadows I and Mr White I all right well good luck gentlemen um we'll see you in March prob we I suspect we'll see you Mr Sparkle before that with some other matter but uh we'll see you I all in March and um if you have questions work with the staff they can really be helpful and can seek opinions and guidance from us individually the bo thank you very much I hope you have a good holiday season to everyone thank you for your time and consideration best wishes um the next order of business is public comment on any matter not before the board tonight so any member of the public who wishes to speak on anything except those things that were before us um got 422 oh my goodness yes you're right you're right thank you yes we miss Mr Rey well I you know because I knew we weren't gonna take it up I just skipped along it is not the next order of business public comment the next order of business is uh a motion to withdraw without prejudice zba FY 20252 422 422 am Amity Street the applicant has submitted a letter asking us to asking to withdraw that without prejudice um seems to me that that's is a fine request is there any comment from members of the board Mr Rey you don't need to even say anything I don't think do you just maybe a preview of do you wish do you wish to I guess that's the question yeah just maybe a preview of Coming Attractions um so yeah what we had asked for was a modification to the variance to increase the height to six stories uh you had proove the variance earlier this year for for two five story buildings and and a modification to the lot area so we got uh Barry got numbers um to actually build those buildings and the steel was like $10 million and it there's no way to build those buildings that make economic sense so uh we didn't want to waste your time so I'm going to be very brief because we don't I don't want to waste your time now uh we don't want to waste your time uh asking for something that we didn't think we could build so that's the request but we're probably gonna change and I talked to Rob MOA today uh and Nate Malloy that it looks like we may be changing the plan to to eliminate the two buildings and just do one building instead so I suspect that some point maybe January February uh once we have the plans done over the next couple of weeks we'll be submitting for an amendment because the variants you gave said on the plans that we had approved so we just have to come back in it's going from like 85 units to 77 units it still has um commercial space on the first floor Etc but just we'll we'll be back so the request today is for withdrawal without prejudice to allow us to come back for a modification in the future thank you sir thank you any other questions members if not uh I would entertain a motion that we um permit the withdrawal without prejudice of zba FY moved and seconded any discussion if not the vote occurs on the motion chair votes I Mr Meadows hi Mr White hi Mr Henry hi sler hi there you go sorry that I almost forgot you I bet that thanks a lot happy holidays see you next year see you next year happy holidays all right now um next business is public comment on any matter not before the board tonight anybody from the public who wishes to speak so indicate by raising your hand or pressing star nine and we have nobody that wants to speak everyone's dropped off well not everyone but no one who is here is wishing to speak nobody's wishing to speak yep yes all right lastly is uh new business and Miss Williams can you go through the schedule with us um that sure um have my normally printed schedule I can pull it up though and we can work on it together was the last time we updated this before okay so I mean I think the the key point is that next week we were going to have a wayfinders on the 19th but they it's not it doesn't make sense to have wayfinders in the 19th next week they need to have get more information to answer some of the questions we have and so it would be not be productive to have uh wayfinders on the 19th so that is going to be at this point in time we have nothing scheduled for the 19th it's a it's our surprise Christmas present for all of us or holiday present for all of us that we don't have to meet okay does does that mean that there will that there will be no meeting or do we keep it open in case something comes up I think it's too late for something to come up if it hasn't already okay okay well we still have to vote right we have to vote to continue yeah we just have to but that's that's right we do have to vote to continue the meeting so I'll have to be there um and everybody else is welcome to attend but it's just a a quick motion to continue right take like five minutes yeah we can't do it now no we have to because the meeting there's a meeting already noticed for the 19th we're just we're just going to say that we're just going to continue the 19th to another point to another date okay so we do have a meeting on the 19 yes we do well just show up just for just for the point of continuing it just to stop by and say hello to each other it won't be long yeah and in the past sometimes it's just been done by Boy V too so but I'm I'm I would welcome all of you to be there if you wish we will Captain all right I will and what's who isn't and what's after that so after that um once we continue to the 9th it will be a fullway finders meeting for the 9th and if they need it the 16th as well um and then we come back on the 23rd for a regular zba meeting with just regular Town stuff I I have a note that the 23rd is solar is that not the case it is also solar so there are a few things it's going to be shutesbury Road it's going to be 85 North Whitney as I type these in um and I think there's one more can't remember what it is right now but there is I think a third that's going to be on the agenda um so on the 23rd for shutesbury you can anticipate and we'll talk more about this uh St Town staff will brief you on this but basically we are planning on having wsp the third party reviewer present their findings on the 23rd so that's going to be a really important one um we do know that concom has asked the applicant to do a redesign specifically because of the access road that they proposed um concom has I guess you know decided it doesn't work or they need more information specifically because it's going between two vernal pools and they need them to do a study on those vernal pools which they can't do right now because we are in a severe drought and can't really look at vernal pools until spring so that entire process is sort of on hold if you will but they do have 60 days to present concom with some alternative analysis and some alternative plans so I believe they're going back before concom sometime in January and we just want to be able to give the zba the applicant and you know the town some information as to what w P has done so far as regards to findings um based on what was previously or currently proposed but we know the plans will change so that will more than likely mean we need to do another review of these new plans when they come through so that will be what's happening with shutesbury um so I I anticipate that will be an important meeting for everybody let's see I think Miss Williams I told you I may have a conflict with one of the heing for the 23rd so um I am on shb so I'll be there for that but you may need to backup for one of the other ones okay I'll make a note of that thank you for reminding me and I just would say make sure that you let us know if there are changes on the wayfinders I think um four of the five members have missed one meeting so um if you if you can't make a one of the wayfinders meetings please let us know ahead of time so we can reschedule I'd like it'd be my preference to have a faux panel if we can we only need it's only needs three votes to pass it doesn't need four but um to the extent that we can have a full panel uh complete work on the wayfinders and the 19th the and the the 9th and the 16th and probably the first week in February um that would be great just let us know looking up that date right now all right that the sixth I don't know if we will need the 13th um I will double check where I've put everybody but if we need to move people around the 13th of February is also I guess an option but we'll see we may want to look at the six because we only have until F right we have is it are we done in February or done in March we have to be done in February yeah end of February so we want to be want to be front end load February activities if we need to okay and and given the importance just for full disclosure I am not available the entire week of February 16 just in case okay that's good to know thank you all right any other questions on the schedule or on any matter at all okay well um I hope to see all of you on the next Thursday to quickly uh continue the meeting on wayfinders and wish each other a happy holidays uh if and if I don't see you and you don't show up that'll be okay because I still wish you happy all right I'll trade you I'll trade you my meeting that I have that time for your meeting you know I I don't think I want to do that deal how's that yeah I don't think you want to either I don't think I want to do that deal all right do I have a if another questions do I have a motion to adjourn so moved second second it's been moved and seconded to adjourn uh this is not a debatable motion so the vote occurs chair I Mr Meadows hi Mr sler hi Mr Henry hi Mr White hi all right motion carries five to nothing we are adjourned happy holidays everybody same to you guys travel happy happy good night